Does Being Transparent Really Help In Your Marketing?, First Principles Of Generational Businesses, What We Learned From A Private Conference Ratings, Why Our YouTube Channels Are Starting To Finally Grow… Again

In episode #2972, Eric Siu and Neil Patel discuss the power of transparency in marketing and the core principles of building a generational business. They highlight the importance of customer feedback, strong teams, and retention, while also exploring the evolution of content creation and lessons from business challenges. TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES (00:00) The Power of Transparency in Marketing (05:12) Building a Generational Business: Key Principles (14:26) Navigating Challenges and Learning from Feedback (17:55) The Evolution of Content Creation and Engagement Prefer single topic episodes? Head over to our YouTube channel. To suggest a topic, go to https://www.marketingschool.io. For more content from Eric and Neil, check out Eric’s Leveling Up with Eric Siu YouTube channel and Neil’s Neil Patel YouTube channel. Connect with Us: Single Grain << Eric's ad agency NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency X @neilpatel, @ericosiu Instagram @neilpatel, @ericosiu Drop Us a Review If You Enjoyed the Episode!

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:37Speaker 01

  Does being transparent really help in marketing?

• 0:40Speaker 00

  Okay, where did that come from?

• 0:41Speaker 01

  I was at an event called Seller Summit in Fort Lauderdale. E-commerce event.

• 0:46Speaker 00

  Was that done by, um...

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Steve.

• 0:48Speaker 00

  Steve Chu.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 0:49Speaker 00

  Oh, that's so funny.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  I did the very first one.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 0:53Speaker 00

  This is a long time ago, yeah.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  So, uh, Steve's here this weekend, by the way.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  Oh, is he?

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  Great guy, yeah.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Um, so, I met someone there. He stopped me before I went onstage to speak. And he said, "Neil, I'm really disappointed with your agency." And I'm like, "Who are you working with? What team? What department?" Because we got like a thousand plus...

• 1:10Speaker 00

  Oh, he's a client.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  A thousand plus people, or he was a past client, right? So I was just like, "All right." And we typically do enterprise work. He was in this new program called Level Up. I don't know how much it was. Call it a thousand bucks a month. Where we just help out startups, just get things off the ground. And I was very transparent with him. I'm like, "There's only so much we can do for a thousand dollars." Uh, and he's just like, "I g- he, he got it." And I was like, "If I gave you the people I put on the enterprise account, you know, a big global 1,000 company, I'm like, I would lose my shirt." Really, I would be just losing my shirt. So I was like, "What was your problem?" So he tells me some of his problems. I was like, "Cool." So I introduced him to someone on my team, the president of that division. I said, "Make sure you refund his last month's worth of money."

• 1:56Speaker 01

  And then onstage, uh, right before I went onstage, I said, "When are you free next week for a call?" He's like, "With who?" I'm like, "Me." He's just like, "What are we gonna do?" I'm like, "You're gonna give me your website URL. I'm gonna get on the phone with you for 30 minutes, hour. I'm gonna break down everything I would change to grow your revenue." So then I was on stage and people were talking about marketing and stuff. And I was giving example because there are mainly entrepreneurs. No, I was just speaking. But I was giving example during my speech in marketing that not everything goes the way you want. And in business, because most of these people are entrepreneurs, you got to adapt and you got to take your licks and you got to improve based on data because on one of my slides, I was talking about reviews. And this was example of like a real life review.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Now, everyone in the, no one in the audience knew that he gave me this feedback other than Steve. Steve may have felt bad. I didn't care. I was, I was happy that he brought this to my attention. And I use him as examples on stage. I'm like, look, reviews are important. I'm like, you know, I was talking to this guy named Charles. Charles is the one who gave me the complaint. I'm getting on the phone with him for an hour next week. And I'm like, how much did you pay Charles? I'm like around a thousand bucks. And he's like, yeah. And I was like, guys, do you think it's worth my time to go on the phone with Charles for an hour to break down everything he needs to do to grow his business? He wasn't happy with my company. And I'm like, we have some amazing people who are extremely satisfied. You're never going to have a hundred percent satisfaction rate at scale. It's just impossible. And what he ended up telling me, he was happy at the end that I'm doing this.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  People like, no, it's not worth my time. And I said, it is worth my time. The reason it's worth my time is one, Charles is now much more likely evangelize my company. Two, I'm righting a wrong. Three, I'm learning what we did wrong in his opinion. So I can go back to my team and work on fixing it to create a better experience in the future, which will cause less churn and grow my overall revenue faster in the long run. Assuming my team takes that feedback, which they're really good at, especially Sarah, who runs that division. But the point I'm getting at is I was just really transparent in front of an audience. And at the end of being transparent. I had a lot of people come up to me who wanted to hire my agency for marketing.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Even though I was transparent on stage that Charles was not happy, he didn't get results and I was working on fixing it. And just people didn't care.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  People like stories too. It's it's a like us talking about this now might lead to more leads as well, right?

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  But the problem is there might be an expectation now where if they aren't happy, they get a one hour call with you.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  I would do that. Anyone who's not happy ever hit me up. I'm always willing to get on the phone with them.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Would you do it with a hundred people?

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  Would you do it with a thousand people?

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Ten thousand people?

• 4:40Speaker 01

  If time permitted, yes.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, um, I think.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  But I think it's a really important part.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  I think you have to do this, especially when there's, if it keeps popping up, you have to get on all of them because then you're the one that can drive the pace at the end of the day. You have to.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  But I hate to say this. One, it wouldn't ever happen with a thousand people. You just look at client count. Two, a lot of people would have been fired if it happened with a thousand people way before then. I'm not trying to be rude, but it's just reality because they're tarnishing our company's name. And three, I look at every experience as a way to improve revenue and reduce churn, which grows revenue and profitability faster. If the team wouldn't take action on that, if I'm giving them solid data that's actionable, not fluff, not just someone saying, ah, I didn't like this creative. This is why I'm not happy. And if my team actually showed positive results and they don't like creative, there's not much I can do on that and other than to try to make them happier with the creative.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  But this guy was happy with the results, the actual revenue increase on his end. Cause I was like, all right, sounds good. He, I don't think he was in the program long. And at a thousand bucks, there's only so much we can do from a consulting standpoint because it's just, it's hard. The costs are high. But for me, the way I look at it as every interaction helps me make my product better, which is how you. Build a big company.

• 6:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you can't build a product or a service in a vacuum. At the end of the day, this is interesting because I talked to someone on my team. He likes to build products in a vacuum, right? Sometimes, and he's not used to talking to customers as much. Same thing with his last start, he's just not used to talking to customers that much. I'm like, we have to talk to customers a lot more and we have to, not only that, we have to be using our products and services ourselves. And not only that, it's not, it's talking to customers, but it's also talking to prospects too and understanding what their problems are, because that's what business is at the end of the day. It's just solving problems.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  So let me reframe, reframe the question.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Would you rather talk to upset customer or a happy customer?

• 6:43Speaker 00

  I don't learn anything from happy customers.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Bingo, and I knew you were gonna say that. And he's spot on. If you talk to happy customers, and I still think someone on your team should, I don't think it's a good use of your time, but someone on your team should, because if they can figure out what are the commonalities and they can push that messaging forward with your marketing, maybe you'll get more conversions on the front end. But the bigger thing is, by talking to all the upset customers, you now know what to fix and improve. By talking to the happy customers, it doesn't tell you what you should change in the business.

• 7:10Speaker 00

  Have you seen that show on Netflix called American Factory?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  Okay, so this is where a China, a Chinese company buys an American factory in the Midwest. And there's a, there's a breaking point where the Chinese people are basically on one side and then there's the, the, the American people, right? And the Chinese HR was talking to the Chinese people, was like.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  But go back, I'm confused. When you say Chinese on one side, American on the other, are you talking about in the US factory or in the China factory?

• 7:35Speaker 00

  I think they're in the US factory collaborating now. So this is a story that was told to me, right? So basically, the Chinese HR talking to the Chinese people, just you have to watch when you work with Americans. They really need compliments, right? Now, if you're Chinese and like Taiwanese, right? So whatever, right? It's, you're, we're wired to take criticism. You're wired, like if you're Asian, you're, you're wired to take a lot of heat. You're just never quite good enough when you're growing up, right? And so my point is saying this, I learned a lot more from criticism and my coach, my coach, haha, told me this, he's like, yeah, you've done something sick with your mind. You disregard compliments and you take criticism as compliments, right? And so I think if you, I'm not saying you should be like me, guys, but I'm saying if you can learn to seek out more criticism, you're gonna grow.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  Because even, even Bill Gates himself, love him or hate him, has said that success is a lousy teacher. And it is, I don't learn much from, from successes.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't either.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. And when I read like a biography, for example, I want to know the tough things that they went through, the tough experiences. So then I can know maybe how I might want to adjust when that happens to me.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  One of the best lessons I learned from Elon years and years ago, uh, not in person, but he just talked about this in an interview or somewhere online was he reads a lot of biographies. And when he was asked by the interviewer, why? He said, I like reading biographies of some of these successful people because I can learn from all their failures and mistakes and avoid making those same mistakes and uh, for himself, right? And because if you look at technology, it's changed over time, but business strategy and concepts and principles, they've actually stayed very similar.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  Human psychology doesn't really change.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. So learning over time from like the Rockefellers and people like that, it can help you figure out what mistakes to avoid going forward in the future.

• 9:21Speaker 00

  Have you listened to Founder's Podcast?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  No.

• 9:23Speaker 00

  That's the one that's worth listening to because all he does is he, he, he reads biographies and he deconstructs it into like a 30 to 40 minute podcast. And, and he's done like a 1300 of these so far. And he'll deconstruct like Sony, uh, Microsoft, uh, Walmart, um, the freaking, um, Raising Canes, which is like multi-billion dollar company. Yeah.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Who, who does it?

• 9:42Speaker 00

  It's David Sennar, this guy that lives in Miami. And he's like, it's, it's great because you can get it really quickly. He did, he did a Michael Dell podcast, but the thing that's common with all of these people is they're maniacally focused and they did it for a very long time. Um, and that actually brings me to my next topic over here. I think we should kind of go back and forth here. These are the first principles of building a generational business or the building blocks. People like to say first principles. That gets a little confusing to me. I just like to say the building blocks, right? So let me start off first and we can go back and forth here. So if we're talking about building a multi-billion dollar company, like a Walmart or something like that for the long term, or like Hermes or something, the, the very first thing that I think needs to happen is

• 10:23Speaker 00

  you have to build an exceptional team. And that's, that gets said so much, but when you look at the teams like Renaissance Technologies, for example, their team, everybody was, everyone's like expert mathematician, right? This was like a, this was like a investment firm.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  He passed away, right?

• 10:38Speaker 00

  I, I, I'm not sure if he passed away or not.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. What's his name?

• 10:41Speaker 00

  Oh, I think you're right. I think you're right. He did pass away. But point is, that's one of the first principles of building a generational business.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Jim Simmons. Yeah, he passed away. It was sad.

• 10:51Speaker 00

  All right, you go.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  All right, um, I would say the next one is if you want generational business, you gotta go after a big TAM. There's only so much money to be made from things like best man speeches. Reason it comes top of mind because someone tried selling me a best man's speech business a long time ago. And now it would exist today with AI, but um, you, you gotta pick a big TAM. You use Walmart as an example, Walmart sells food. They sell clothing, they sell stuff that you need. AI may disrupt the food industry, but AI is not going to disrupt the fact that you as a human still need food in your body and you need to get it from somewhere. So you need to go after a big TAM. If you don't go after a big TAM, I think you're just not going to do well.

• 11:31Speaker 00

  And actually, the third one related to that, you can either sell something cheap to a lot of people, or you can sell something really expensive to fewer people. That's when we talk about TAM, we are talking about more of it from a revenue standpoint.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, the fourth one would be you're, you have to have a culture of willing to kill your own baby. Not real baby, but your business. If you're not willing to kill the business, um, by innovating, you're eventually going to get disrupted by someone else and they're going to crush you. Just like Facebook crushed MySpace and MySpace should have been where Facebook is today, but that's not the case. You need to really be willing to kill off your business. If you kill off your business by doing something that's more innovative, you'll keep surviving in the long haul.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  Now, this is the next, the next one is when I look at all these biographies or all these founders that I've studied, they are all extremely frugal when it comes to their business. They watch their costs like a hawk. Neil's a great example of this. He's pulling up his Amex statements all the time. He's looking at every, every little thing. You have to do that in your business because nobody's going to care as much. Because at the end of the day, the cost structure is, is, it is the thing.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, the other thing, if you want to build a generational business, you gotta think slow and steady. Too many entrepreneurs want everything right now. Um, the Bill Gates quote, right? Everyone underestimates or people underestimate what they can do in a year. I mean, people overestimate what they can do in a year, but they underestimate what they can do in five or 10 years. But you need to go slow and steady. A great example of this is We've been doing acquisitions at NP Digital. I want to make sure the business is solid in a bad economy. I'm not going to go buy five companies this year, even though financially I could, because then I may struggle next year when things go bad and I don't have enough dry powder.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  So you gotta be patient and you gotta make sure that you're doing the right things for long-term growth. You gotta be aggressive, but not foolishly over aggressive where you're not prepared for downturns.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson shows how modern brands grow by removing the friction in their marketing and customer experience that pushes customers away every single day, often without leaders even realizing it. Each episode delivers practical insights, real brand examples, and conversations with marketing leaders showing brands how to win with the new rules of growth, identity-driven marketing, cultural relevance, and frictionless customer experiences. Listen to Frictionless Growth Marketing wherever you get your podcasts. By the way, you actually shared this story. Remember, you talked to this billionaire heiress, right? But when we talk about building, we're talking about something generational.

• 14:15Speaker 00

  We're talking like 30-plus years. That's what we're really talking about. The last thing I'll say from my side is you have, and I learned this the hard way. You learned this the hard way too, but you have to be maniacally focused. When you look at Raisin Canes, all they do is chicken fingers, right? When you look at, when you look at Hermes, it's luxury goods, right? Or LVMH, luxury goods, that's all they do. You look at Costco, what is it at the end of the day? It's buying in bulk at discounts, right? So they're all known for one thing. It's really hard to do one thing really well for a very long time. That's why most people don't do it.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, they don't have the, they're not willing to just keep going. They're not, I would say a lot of people don't do it long enough because they're also not passionate. But if I had to go with the last one, when it comes to building a generational business is.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  You gotta figure out how to retain customers. Too many businesses focus on continually getting new customers. Big businesses are built from the same customers spending over and over again. They're not built by focusing purely on retaining or going after new customers. It is much more expensive. I had the stat in one of my presentations. It was like seven times more expensive to get a new customer than it is to get an existing customer to keep spending more. So focus on getting your existing customers to keep spending money. It not only grows your revenue faster, but it helps you generate way more profit.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  Yep. One more thing here, we were kind of texting a day or two ago. And then there's a lot of, lot of stuff that's happening in the business world, right? For, for just in the business world, but also for us, right? And I was just thinking about it and I'm like, you know, sure, it's a pain in the butt right now to have to go through all this stuff in a shaky economy. But I, I'm grateful for the pain because it is the journey that's fun at the end of the day. I don't want to be at the end of it, right? Like I, it's like we're in the middle of it right now. So I, I'm grateful for it and I think if you're in the middle of it and you're dealing with it and you're not running away. I, I think you're on the right track.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Totally agree.

• 16:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. Tonight, let me just talk, before we started recording here, I got the conference ratings back from the, the, the global marketing summit that I helped with. And it's really fascinating to me. And so the good thing is we scored the highest of all business network events that have more than 150 people. So that's nice, right? But when I was looking at the, the scores, first of all, when you're, I would say the audience is mostly affluent, right? We're talking average revenue, 41 million, something like that, right? The thing is you can never please everyone. And so we did the event at the St. Regis Bell Harbor and people were complaining, it was right on the beach. People were complaining about.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Free ice cream.

• 16:48Speaker 00

  Free ice cream, the gelato, amazing. You have the gelato, Noah? Oh, my God.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  You do not.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 16:53Speaker 00

  That's a screw up.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  You what?

• 16:55Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Oh, you would have gotten it for free, right? You knew, I got it three times.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  So we picked the hotel that had free gelato. It was amazing place, the amazing, beautiful spot, right? That wasn't good enough. The food wasn't good enough, right? You know, so and so, one person really loved this speaker. Okay, let's just talk about me. One person really loved my talk and said Eric's speech, blah, blah, blah. You know, great, right? And then one person was like, Eric sold too much, right? And then one person's like, there's nothing new from this. My point of saying all this is that.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  So someone said, there's nothing new from this?

• 17:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  I bet you didn't use all the AI tools and.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  For sure they didn't.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  And frameworks that you were giving.

• 17:29Speaker 00

  For sure they didn't. And so, but I'll give a couple of key learnings from this, doing this event. So one, when you do an event, it's a labor of love.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  And two, I would say that I've used a couple of teams in the past. I would say that I was grateful for the team that helped me this time. But there's also consistency thing. So like Noah came and helped, right? No one knows how I work, how I think about this. Also, working with Deanna from War Room in the past.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Oh, she helped with that?

• 17:55Speaker 00

  She didn't. But had she helped, I'm just saying that a lot of the things, a lot of the issues that we had, wouldn't have been issues. And so, for example, we had some AV issues, right? We had some issues with, for example, I never walked through and looked at the screen. Like, I think we should have had a bigger screen showing the speaker and showing that. Like, you know what I mean? These are a lot of things that you expect to just be done. So this, this comes back to, if you're gonna do anything, not even just the event, you want to have consistency. And when you don't have consistency, it makes it hard to get anything done. But also, you can't please everybody. And also, if you're gonna do an event, forget about the ratings. Do what works for you at the end of the day. Because had I done this for ratings, I think I would have tried to please everybody. But I'm deeper in my career now and I've done a couple of these where I'm just like, yeah, I'm gonna do it my way and do what's right.

• 18:40Speaker 00

  And I will say one more thing too. If you're gonna help volunteer where you don't get paid for something like this, it actually compounds because now I'm gonna be helping with the Global Business Summit. So I'm grateful for this event. And now it's like, the Global Business Summit's gonna be 1,500 people, right? So those are a couple of learnings that I had.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  Here, this will be fun. This will be fun. Why are YouTube channels are finally starting to grow? Dot, dot, dot, again.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Well, one of the main reasons is YouTube changed the way they count views on shorts. So they're all inflated. You didn't know that?

• 19:11Speaker 00

  How are they counting the views on shorts now?

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Your views are double on shorts.

• 19:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I noticed that our view, we're getting more views on our shorts.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, that has nothing to do with our content. It has everything to do with the way YouTube is tracking data.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  How are they, how are they counting it now?

• 19:23Speaker 01

  They're counting it to be more generous and inflated.

• 19:26Speaker 00

  Well, good, well, I'm more so talking about the long form, though.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Uh, my long form is going up in, in, in traffic and views because I'm creating long form. I wasn't ever publishing long form for like over a year.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Same for me too. I would say the thing that's helping for both of us right now is you and I are both spending more time on the outline. So I copied what you did. So, um.

• 19:46Speaker 00

  Maya from my team will come up with six ideas that she's done research on and I'll highlight the ones that I like. And she's, she'll show the thumbnails, she'll show like wide TAM or low TAM. I'll pick two that I like. And then what I'll do from there is each one, I'll make like a 10 to 15 minute loom saying what I want to talk about. Then she'll make that into an outline and then we record at the same spot in Century City. Uh, visible audible studios, visible audible studios or something. Great spot. Record there. It takes me an hour to get the long form, two long forms done. I'm assuming you're probably the same.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  How long is your long form?

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Usually I'll take 20 to 30 minutes to record each one, but then it gets cut to like eight to 10 minutes.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Uh, so if mine gets cut to eight to 10 minutes, it takes me for eight minutes, probably 12 minutes max, if not like 10.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  That's what they said about you. Usually you're, you're, you're pretty good. Like we both take multiple takes, but usually you're pretty good at getting it done.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  No, I just do one take. There's, there's some, there's some parts where I'll reread, but um. I, if it's an eight minute video, I'm usually recording 10 minutes worth of content, 12 max.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  What I'll say about my videos, I don't know about yours, but when I do record in studio now, I'm just looking at it. Cause a couple of months ago, I was only averaging like a thousand long forms views per video, which is not much, right? Now the average is going up to like, you know, 5,000 and then some of these I'll hit like, you know, I have one here that I hit 97K views about a month ago. So it's, it's going up because point is we're putting more effort into it.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Do you use a teleprompter?

• 21:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I I never use a teleponder before.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm trying to figure out how to get yours lower. Like if it's an eight minute video, how to get it where it only takes you 12 minutes to film it.

• 21:25Speaker 00

  I think it's because that I start to, as I start to record, I start to think about other ideas. I'll be, oh, let's go back, let's go back. And so I start to add more and more to it. But yeah, that's basically anything else you want to add because you've been doing this experiment for, call it four months now, three, four months.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  We've been doing it for three, four months. Now, long form videos are starting to do decent on some of the other platforms as well. We like it because it just makes, it's a quality is high. I don't like the topics my team's coming up with, so I had to record audio notes and screen share video notes for eight more videos today. So I'll do that either today or tomorrow, whenever I get time. But when I look at that. Yeah, quality is important, but this stuff just doesn't drive the revenue as like me going and speaking at a conference with 200 people in the audience that are my ideal customer. Or like, dude, I was just texting Amazon today.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  Dude, what is this? You have all this millionaire and billionaire stuff now.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. But that's going to change. That was only one script.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Or one batch. And I told him, dude, never again.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  And I remember in that studio session, you know, they would have me record shorts as well. And I was so pissed off that I refused to record the shorts on millionaire topics.

• 22:39Speaker 00

  I just went home.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  I went home and then the next round, I think only two videos were about money related stuff, but six were not. This next round, none of them are. They're all marketing related. But going back to what I was getting at, dude, I just generally hire ROI speaking in a room with like 200 potential customers. Or I was emailing or texting. It was actually made a little bit of both. Someone who works at Amazon in partnerships and someone who works at Google. And I don't know which one it was. It was either Amazon or Google. And we were talking about doing an event together. I'm like, dude, it's just so much easier to do an event at one of their offices or venues. And invite a ton of people. They'll invite a ton of people. I'll speak. We'll bring in a few other speakers and just try to close revenue.

• 23:22Speaker 00

  You know what? I I think the benefit, well, my hypothesis, I, because we have gotten a couple of customers from LinkedIn that just view like a short or like a mid form video because I'll repost it. I think that might work with thought leader ads and things like that. The other thing I'll say before we get out of here, you're publishing the long forms also to Instagram reels too, aren't you?

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't care.

• 23:41Speaker 00

  How's that going?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  They tell me I shouldn't be doing it, but I don't care because I have audience there and some of them are gonna do well.

• 23:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Anyway, that's it for today, guys. We'll see you tomorrow.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.