Do It or Don't, and Stop Wanting It

In episode #2999, Eric Siu and Neil Patel discuss the mindset behind taking action, the grit required to build a business, and how personal growth and priorities evolve over time. They share lessons from the early days of Single Grain, highlight the emotional toll of leadership, and talk about balancing ambition with family and purpose. TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES (00:00) Do It or Don’t: Taking Ownership (02:42) The Reality of Startup Pressure (06:34) Hard Lessons from Single Grain (10:21) The Emotional Weight of Leadership (13:17) Balancing Work, Family, and Purpose To suggest a topic, go to https://www.marketingschool.io. For more content from Eric and Neil, check out Eric’s Leveling Up with Eric Siu YouTube channel and Neil’s Neil Patel YouTube channel. Connect with Us: Single Grain << Eric's ad agency NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency X @neilpatel, @ericosiu Instagram @neilpatel, @ericosiu Drop Us a Review If You Enjoyed the Episode!

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:35Speaker 00

  You either do it, or you don't. If you don't do it, stop wanting it, right? So if you want to become a VC, you want to become a C-level executive. Well, guess what? C-level, you're gonna own a P and L. You're gonna be recruiting people, you're gonna be hiring people. No, no, no, it's not just, "I'm gonna hand it off to HR." No, no, no, you're gonna be there recruiting. Like, that means you're probably gonna be talking to people on the street, you're gonna be meeting with people, right? And a job, basically, at the end of the day is, it's illicit responsibilities. And guess who has to clean up most of the work at the end of the day? It's the CEO, right? Or even you, as co-founder of the company. A lot of the stuff bubbles up to you that you don't want to deal with, that you have to deal with. Like, random bank stuff or things like that, right? And so, but a lot of people, I think, you know, when you go into the workforce, you're trained to think, "Oh, I want to be promoted, I want to become a VP, whatever."

• 1:20Speaker 00

  But that actually means more responsibilities. And I don't think people actually understand it. They just say that they want it. But when you say, "Okay, well, it's gonna require you to do X, Y, and Z." It's like, "Oh, well, that's not what I thought it was." And I don't know, this has just been bothering me a lot, because people, the level of entitlement, I just can't take it.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  So let's go back on this. If you want to be promoted, you're saying, "Do it or don't." But what if you're in a corporation? Let's say I'm someone at Single Great. And account executive. All right, I'm working with clients. Eventually, I want to be the VP of Client Services and manage a team. Eventually, then I want to go from there to be a COO. And then I want to go to be the president. And then maybe one day CEO, if you'd be able to. This is a hypothetical.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  So what would I need to do in this scenario to get promoted?

• 2:14Speaker 00

  You know what's interesting? Let me experience share. Let me, because I can, I've lived this experience.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  Okay, I'll experience share and you tell me if this answers the question or not. And then if not, I'm happy to answer more. So I've told you this story where when I've worked for startups before, when it was four day work weeks, I would work seven days a week because I cared so much about the company. And I'd work like 80 plus hours a week. But there was no incentive for me to work that hard. And I had to learn all these other things that my CEO never taught me to learn, but I went to do it. You have to figure it out. You have to M I H, you have to make it happen over time. And so that's how I continued to grow. And then eventually it led to this thing, right? Which was single grain. It's like, okay, well, how do you operate this company that that's a failing? And like all these things is like, oh, how do you deal with these people problems? Oh, what SEO is not working anymore.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  Oh, what do you do in that situation? Oh, crap, a bunch of people are quitting at the same time. Oh, what do you do? Oh, we're not getting any leads anymore from Neil. What do you do, right? And everything's crumbling. And guess what? Tough shit, figure it out. And most people just aren't willing to do that, right? And I'm not saying I'm the most amazing thing. It's just you have to have a lot of resilience, a lot of grit. But don't expect these things to be handed to you if you're not willing to just. That's what I'm saying. Do it or don't.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, just figure it out. I, I, I, look, I get what you mean. I agree with it.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  Same thing for you, like when you're in your teens or so, like you're working your ass off. And like you suffered and you paid the price for it and you got kicked in the nuts every day. And so like, do people think this is gonna be easy?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  I still get kicked in the nuts every day.

• 3:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is what business is. You get kicked, you get punched in the face every day. You're eating glass, you get kicked in the nuts every day. And sometimes this is not fun, but like suck it up.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  And I want to share a little about the single grain story because at one point I was a 10% owner in single grain. So the way Eric came about with Single Grain is my cousin and one of our mutual friends AJ were owners in Single Grain.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  And everyone's on good terms.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Everyone's on good terms. No one has issues with each other. And then one day Eric gets introduced to them somehow that he should work there. He starts working there and becomes a partner and he helps him in some of the areas that they're struggling with like churn, growth, expansion. I think you even moved to San Francisco for the company, right?

• 4:32Speaker 00

  I went to San Francisco and visited a couple of times and then I got Susan to move down to Santa Monica.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. So then you didn't have to move up there.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  And then one day there was financial issues with the companies, not necessarily that clients weren't paying or the company wasn't making revenue, just a misappropriation of funds? Would you probably say that's probably accurate representation?

• 4:54Speaker 00

  No, I mean, I think it was, I mean, it was a.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Misuse of funds, I would say.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  I mean, I don't know if it's fair to say that.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  You're trying to think about how to politely say it.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't, I don't wanna, I don't wanna call anyone out.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, no, I'm not saying who or anything like that. Okay. So, and because of the misuse of funds, let's just call it that, because it is somewhat accurate. Eric shaking his head.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  Nodding my head, you mean?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Nodding his head. I was like, cool. Me and my co-founder, me and my brother-in-law Heathen, we each own 10%. We didn't care. We're just like, cool, you guys can have the company, whatever, do whatever you want with it.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Because when it comes to friends and family, you know, money isn't everything. And sometimes people make mistakes and they don't, nothing was ill will. No one did any of this kind of stuff intentionally.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  It was just an accident.

• 5:45Speaker 00

  And like, if there was ill will, like, we wouldn't be talking to some of these people.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  No, yeah, yeah.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  So everyone still talks to each other.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Everyone still talks. It was just.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  So a mistake was happened by someone on an accident, but it was a big mistake.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  And Heathen and I just bowed down.

• 6:00Speaker 00

  Bowed out, you mean?

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Bowed out, yeah. AJ, I think bowed out.

• 6:05Speaker 00

  He bowed out earlier already.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  He already bowed out earlier?

• 6:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Eric said, actually, no, I want to keep going. And keep in mind, no one was going to leave the clients drying anyway, or hanging. That was going to be taken care of, but it was like, who wants to end up running it? Eric's like, I'll, I'll take over the company, I'll run it and I'll spend the, I think you bought out the co-founders, right?

• 6:29Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  So he gave some money.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  And

• 6:33Speaker 00

  Well, it took the fee upfront, the structure was $1 for your shares, $1 for Heath and shares, and the rest was seller finance. And the contingency was if the company failed, I would owe nothing.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Yes, but I don't think Heath and I ever wanted anything, right? I think we had to do a dollar.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  You had to do a dollar for legal.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Legal purposes. So we took our dollar, I don't know if we did, but if I did, I should get it back to you.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  Well, you sent me a dollar back because I gave you a knife once. And your wife was like, you gotta send a dollar. So you sent me a dollar on PayPal.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it cuts friendships or something like that.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Anyway, continue your story.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  So Eric took it over. The first year was hell.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  The second year was hell too, right?

• 7:08Speaker 00

  First year and a half, two years was absolute hell.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  How many times did you almost go bankrupt in that time?

• 7:14Speaker 00

  I was perpetually almost bankrupt.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  And then you eventually got it to work.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  And then you started making millions in revenue.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Then it started to grow into tens of millions. And even through those periods, after the first two years, you had some scary moments in between too.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Even though you're growing, the bad economy, things going down.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Getting attacked everywhere.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, but now things are looking better.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  You bought some companies that didn't work out, which cost you an arm and a leg.

• 7:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  And set you back because it was a ton of cash.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  But it just goes to show that it's not easy. And if you're either willing to do it or you're not. And I think that's what really separates the winners from the losers. You know, like I was talking to Steve earlier, from my wife quit her job. He went to Stanford and we were talking about education and college. And I was just like, yeah, by the time my kids have to go to college, I don't think college will be necessary. His kids are on the like borderline where they're applying to go to college. So it's like a little bit different now, but call it 10, 15 years from now. I don't think there's a point to go to college unless you are in a profession like a doctor that requires.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Engineer, architect.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Those I don't think you need to go to.

• 8:26Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, probably not, given all the AI stuff. Yeah.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Engineer? I don't think so.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  You mean a software engineer? I'm talking about like a structural engineer.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, structural engineer and all that. I don't think you need to. Cause every city code is different. I don't think you're gonna learn that kind of stuff from going to school. I think you'll just learn from using the software.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  Key point, you could be right there, but key point is doctors, maybe nurse, you probably.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Lawyers, I think you still have to go to school, right?

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  But yeah, either you're gonna do it or not. And I don't think it's, if you could get into Stanford or Harvard, no, no hate on anyone who actually went to Stanford or Harvard. I think it's just more so, are you gonna do crap or are you not? And just people are lazy.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  Here's my key point. So like, I know with you, for example, if you needed to go through a lot of, like, you've been through a lot of pain, right? And so, and also like, let's look at my, my C2, for example, I know he can take a lot of pain, right? And so the phrase from the Four Seasons founder is excellence is the capacity to take pain. And that's all it is at the end of the day, like, and if you can develop that resilience, not even gene, but that resilience within you, you will become unstoppable. And here's, here's why I want to leave it off, and this will be the last topic here. So if you want to get rich, here's how hard you need to work. And so I talked to some people recently, the, the question I always ask them when I interview them is like, tell me about a time where you worked your absolute hardest. It's like, oh man, yeah, yeah, I remember one time I was working like day and night. It was crazy.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  I was like, so how many hours were you working per week? Like, you know, 40, 40 hours. I'm like, all right. So, but, but then you talk to some people.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Like, like they're serious.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm like, oh, all right. And I'm like, yeah, this, this interview is done, right? But you'll talk to some people who train for like Navy SEALs, for example, to wake up five in the morning and they'll train till like 12 AM, right? Or someone that worked for Goldman Sachs, like a hundred hours a week sometimes, right? And like, that, that's not my expectation, but bare minimum, like you think about your twenties or even your teens, for example, how hard, how many hours were you working per week, you think?

• 10:21Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 10:22Speaker 00

  80 plus, right?

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Teens?

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Maybe early twenties.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, teens, because I still had school at the time. I know I was working more than forty, but school took up a good chunk of my time.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  So that's still, you had a full-time job while you had school, right? But then you got into your twenties, eighty-plus hours, right?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Easily.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's my point.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Because I was working more than ten hours a day, seven days a week.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  I think I was working probably close to fourteen-hour days, seven days a week.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  But work was kind of, at least for me, work is play. I don't know how you felt about it, but my point of saying this is that here's, you actually need to work seventy, eighty-plus hours a week in your twenties if you want to get ahead. And that's your time to, because you're rich in time. So you might as well use that time and not get distracted. And I think, you know, you start to get into your thirties, I guess we're basically forty now. You're forty now, I'm thirty-nine, basically forty, right? We don't work seventy, eighty hours a week anymore, but there's, you gotta suffer at some point, right?

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm laughing because I'm like, I don't even know how many hours I work, but it's definitely not seventy, eighty hours. I'm not saying it's more, I'm saying it's a lot less.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  I don't think I work less than forty hours a week, I don't count my hours. I know there are some weeks I work less than forty, like next week I go to Disneyland for a few days straight. So, you know, that'll take a lot of the time away from working. And I prefer to just work than go to Disneyland in the hot heat, walking around. But dude, let me ask you a question. Would you go back working seventy, eighty hours a week right now?

• 11:51Speaker 00

  No.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Even if it would make you double the money?

• 11:53Speaker 00

  No.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, same here, someone asked me that the other day. Because they were touring my house that I was, that I'm building, and I'm like, I'd rather sell the house than go back to working seventy, eighty hours. They're like, really? I'm like, life is chill. You know, if I just cash out on a lot of the stuff I have and liquidate some assets, I'm like, life is chill. I'm not willing to go back to working hours.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Your desires change over time, because when I first met you, it was more, you know, money was more of a desire, like a higher desire, right? Now, family time is more of a higher desire for you, so like, things, desires change over time. And for me, I like playing the game, but I also like playing at the high-leverage games, so I'm not doing low-leverage things, right? So, with ChatGPT all the time, I'm like, hey, how high-leverage was my day today on a scale of one to ten? If it gives me an eight, I get really pissed, and I try to drive it to a nine, but that's a separate thing. But point is, We're not trying to work that amount of time, but if you do wanna, and we're not saying we're the richest people or wealthiest people in the world. We're just saying that from what we've seen from either ourselves or our friends, their twenties, you're working 70, 80 hours a week, if not more. Frictionless Growth Marketing hosted by Sonya Thompson is brought to you by the HubSpot

• 12:59Speaker 00

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• 13:30Speaker 01

  My daughter last night was crying in bed. So I go in and I'm like, Emma, why are you crying? And I'm like, what's wrong? And she's like, nothing. I'm like, did you pee or anything like that? Every once in a while she'll have an accident, but very rarely. And like, call it two times a year, right? I was like, do you want anything? I'm like, why are you sad? And she was like crying and like it was sad crying, not like upset or whining. So as a parent, you don't wanna see your kids cry. It's a shitty feeling. Like, and I asked her, I'm like, did you do any, did I do anything? Did mom do anything? And she goes back and says, she's like, I don't know. I'm like, are you sick? She's like, well, my stomach's grumbling a little. I'm like, what is it?

• 14:15Speaker 01

  You can tell me. She's like, no, there's no point in telling you, cause you're not gonna change. And I'm like, I'm like, well, I couldn't just leave her because I can't have on my conscience that my kid's crying because of something that she believes I won't change. So then she tells me.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  You know, when are you gonna spend more time with me? And I spent time with her yesterday, like her dolls. She has a hangars for all the doll clothes. And we were going over her dolls and dressing them and then playing some Legos. I ate dinner with her, you know, uh, played with her after, read some books. Uh, I took her to school this morning, right? I take her to school or pick her up. They go to summer camp right now. And she go crying, she's just like, when are you gonna stop traveling? And I'm like, I'm home for the next 10 days. Next week, I'm going to Disneyland with you, two straight days. We're gonna do some cool activities. I'm not gonna always be on my phone. And she's like, I get that. She's like, I don't mind you traveling, but when am I just gonna get my dad?

• 15:18Speaker 01

  And I was like, you know, I'll stop working when you have kids and I'll spend way more time. And she says, why do I have to wait to have kids? And I'm like, well, one day you'll appreciate how hard dad worked to make your life easier than my, than my life was. Cause my parents worked hard like yours, but they didn't have money when they came here, right? Your parents struggled.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Eric's mom was very generous. She would sell homes for commission because she was a realtor. And they weren't the lowest income, but they weren't rich. She would give back some of her commission to help people fix their house or pay for their washer and dryer or their fridge, just because she knew what it was like to struggle. And you know, this is like, it's the right thing to do.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  And she did then, she worked hard, but Eric has a much better life now. My parents, similar things, they struggled. I had a tough life growing up, but it wasn't that bad compared to my parents. And then my kids have a much easier life. So I was like trying to explain to my daughter how she'll appreciate it. And she was just like, but I don't need much. I just need you. And I was like, okay, I'm like, I won't wait for you to have kids. I'm like, I'm 40, give me till I'm 45 and I promise I'll slow down.

• 16:34Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  And it doesn't mean I'll stop, but I'll figure out how to be half of the time of what I am today. Cause my kids don't care for the money. They want me.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  Realistically, you have everything you need. Yes, financial, everything like that. I think I'm okay.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  I just think it's you enjoy playing the game and that's the thing. It's if you can make work play, you've already won.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  Sure, like if I sell all businesses, homes and everything, I don't.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  You'd be bored out of your mind.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  I would be bored out of mine, but then my kids would be good.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, trade offs.

• 17:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's not even about the money. It's more of, I think you nailed it. I don't have purpose in life other than working. And family is a purpose and I love my kids and I love my family and wife. But it's, I don't know how to explain it. Work gives a different purpose. And I can't give up that purpose because that purpose was my first child.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  You know what's interesting? So my mom was useful. So Noah here and Neil were at the funeral. Thank you guys for coming last Saturday. She was useful to the very end and she struggled in the very beginning, but she she got to upper middle class, right? Which is pretty damn good, being an independent woman, right? Like that. And so, wait, she was a breadwinner too, for everyone listening, right?

• 17:46Speaker 00

  She's a breadwinner.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  In a male dominated society back then.

• 17:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, breadwinner, tiger mom. And it's interesting because my my grandfather, who was a very powerful Taiwanese. And I've realized how powerful he is like recently. The grandfather told my mom, I was like, yeah, you should have been a man.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  Because it was a very male dominated society. But all that to say is that even till the very end, it's. Dude, I think even so, four weeks until she started, her body started getting really weak again. She was still driving things, working, even when she was really sick, she was still driving things, right? And so to your point, you know, if anybody's read Man's Search for Meaning. It is purpose at the end of the day and your purpose could be your kids. And it also could be work at the same time. So I think if you communicate that, this is my my thought. I'm like, just communicate to Emma. Emma, you're my purpose. You're a big piece of it. But work is also a big piece of my purpose. And for her right now, her purpose is you, like the family.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:39Speaker 00

  And so it's like, you know, for you, you've kind of divided a little bit. So anyway, let me know how that goes.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  No, well, I didn't try that. Yesterday, she was crying and I'm like, would it make it better if you're sleeping in mommy and daddy's bed? And she's like, uh huh. She had a big smile. She's like, will mommy be okay with this? Like, yeah, mommy's chill with whatever.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Technically mommy's the more strict one than me.

• 18:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  But I put her in the bed. I told my text to my wife.

• 19:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Because she was on the phone dealing with some other school stuff for the kids. And she's like, okay, sounds good. She's like, I hope she's not sad. Because none of us want our kids to be sad. Even Eric, he doesn't have kids. He wouldn't want my kids to be sad or any other random person's kids. But then it all worked out and she was happy.

• 19:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. Alright guys, so that is it for today. Please don't forget to rate, review, subscribe, and we'll see you tomorrow.