ChatGPT vs Gemini | The Empire Strikes Back

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/ Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire ChatGPT vs Gemini: who’s really winning the AI race? In this episode, we break down Google Trends data, why Gemini’s “Nano Banana” launch spiked usage, and why Google’s massive distribution still gets held back by weak product marketing. We compare launch playbooks (Google vs OpenAI vs Apple), dig into a new study showing only 62% overlap between Google rankings and ChatGPT visibility, and share how marketers should think about AI adoption: know enough to be dangerous, then hire specialists. Plus, a quick detour on iPhone choices, phone hygiene, and Steve Wozniak’s take on happiness vs wealth. Key takeaways Gemini’s surge shows distribution + a great model matters—but consistent, Apple-style product marketing is the missing piece. SEO ≠ “GEO”: only ~62% overlap between Google rankings and ChatGPT visibility; 95% of ChatGPT users still visit Google, but only 14% of Google users visit ChatGPT. For operators: play enough with new AI tools to scope opportunities, then hire experts to build agentic workflows and ship. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) ChatGPT vs Gemini Showdown (00:42) Gemini Spike: The “Nano Banana” Effect (01:35) Can Google Win the AI War? (02:20) Google's Messaging Flaw Exposed (03:05) Apple’s One-Message Launch Strategy (03:55) iPhone Chat: Air vs Pro Battery Showdown (05:55) Phone Hygiene: Wipes vs UV, ChatGPT Verdict (07:15) Steve Wozniak on Happiness vs Wealth (08:35) Money, Love & the “Enough” Mindset (10:10) Relational Wealth by Life Stage (12:15) Family Views on Work, Stress & Balance (15:00) SEO ≠ GEO: 62% Overlap Explained (16:30) OpenAI Hype vs Google Features (17:25) Why Google Struggles With Product Marketing (18:10) AI Tool Depth: Strategy for Busy Leaders 𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟 Welcome to Marketing School, a top business podcast with 61 million downloads! Each episode features marketing tips and strategies from entrepreneurs who practice what they preach and live what they teach. Hosted by: Eric Siu (Founder of Leveling Up & Single Grain) Neil Patel (Co-founder of Neil Patel Digital, named a Top 10 Marketer by Forbes) 👉 Learn more about the hosts: Leveling Up with Eric Siu: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel Other Free Resources from Eric & Neil Growth Newsletter for top marketers: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/ Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/ ✅ Don’t forget to SUBSCRIBE for daily marketing insights! OTHER FREE RESOURCES FROM ERIC AND NEIL👇 Growth Newsletter for top marketers: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/ Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/ DON'T FORGET TO SUBSCRIBE :)

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:36Speaker 00

  So I want to talk about ChatGPT versus Gemini. The empire strikes back. So you want to know how the empire strikes back here?

• 0:43Speaker 01

  No, because I have no idea what this is other than a Star Wars reference.

• 0:46Speaker 00

  Yes, okay. So, check this out. When you look at this graph over here, oh my god, I got a time limit over here, okay. So ChatGPT versus Gemini, the empire strikes back. So ChatGPT, you could look at as the young upstart, right? And then Gemini is the empire, right? Like Darth Vader and all that. So, you look at the Google trend graph over here, it shows that ChatGPT has been very popular for a very long time. They're the young upstart. And then when you look at Gemini, which is the empire owned by Google, when Nano Banana launched, Gemini's users shot up like crazy, right? And so, I thought this would be a great way to start. When you look at it, when Nano Banana launched, it is the best image model by far. And when you launch, Google has so many amazing products within it. And sometimes when they just launch something and they launch it relatively well,

• 1:30Speaker 00

  they launch it within Gemini app and you see a little banana in there. That's why Gemini's users shot up, I think it was over 13 million or so. And it was already a highly ranked app, so it's really hard to get a highly ranked app even higher.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I look at Google and Gemini, I think there's a good chance they may win the AI race. The reason being is they have access to a lot of data, and if you look at their products, at least their recent releases, they've been amazing. I do think Google has one problem though, and it goes, it comes down to marketing. You can release a good product, you're gaining traction with your existing user base, but we were at the HubSpot Inbound Event. Most people had no clue about the product and never heard about it. And most people in the room should be using it. I look at Google as releasing great products is going to help you gain more traction, but it doesn't mean you're gonna win.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  They actually need to start doing marketing and explain things in layman terms and really work on adoption for non-hardcore users, I would say.

• 2:33Speaker 00

  Google is actually a really good example of having all the distribution, literally all the distribution, Android, Chrome, all these things, right?

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Gmail.

• 2:40Speaker 00

  Search, yeah, everything, YouTube, right? Yeah, but they do such a poor job of marketing their own stuff. So it just goes, this is actually a case in point where it's like, oh, all the distribution doesn't matter in the world if you don't know how to bring awareness. And the other thing is, do you remember back in the day, Steve Jobs tried, he wanted in one of his ads to promote a bunch of different features, right? His ad leader was like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do that. So what he did with Steve Jobs in the room, he crumpled up a piece of paper and he threw it at Steve Jobs and Steve Jobs caught it, right? And then, then he crumpled up five pieces of paper, he threw it all at Steve Jobs and Steve caught none of them. He's like, that's the example of multiple different messages and you only want one message with your ads. So when, I think the problem is Google has so many different things. I think maybe every month or so, there's a massive launch, right? And maybe you have 12 big marketable moments a year.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  You can't have too many because it starts to get too crazy and people start to forget.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, did you, on a second, did you watch the Apple launch video a few days ago?

• 3:34Speaker 00

  I didn't, but I got the new iPhone. I just ordered a new iPhone today.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Which one did you pick?

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Uh, I got the silver iPhone 17 Pro. What'd you get?

• 3:42Speaker 01

  I got the black iPhone 17 Air.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  You got the Air?

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  The reason I didn't get the Air is because I'm like, it, it, it seems like, uh, you wanna go for like the second generation of the Air because the first one's not gonna be that good because I think the battery life's a lot less and the camera.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Battery life's the same as the Pro.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  Why don't you try it first? Hey, hey, why don't we try it?

• 4:04Speaker 01

  No, no, the website has the reviews.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  They always say it's like that, but it's always, it's been like half the battery life.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Apple's been pretty decent at predicting their battery lives.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  It looks, I will say the Air looks beautiful and I don't like how the 17 Pro looks, but I was like weighing the two and then I was looking at what are all these other tech people picking, right? So I'm, I'm, I'm sure when I see your Air, I'll be like, damn, I really want that. There's a black one?

• 4:27Speaker 01

  There's a black one for the Air. And Apple has done a good job, even going back to features, what you talked about. In their launch video, they do talk about, hey, um, what is it called? Yeah, in their launch video, they do talk about how, uh, you know, specific features, like, they're not, when Apple talks about their iPhone Air or their Pro, they're not highlighting 50 things, but at the very end slide, they'll show like a, uh, overview, and they list a lot of the features or some of the new cool stuff that makes it amazing. But generally in their videos, they do focus on one feature at a time, and they try to make it simple so that way people are more likely to buy.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  But with the Pro, the new one, did you see the viral Instagram video on the new Pro?

• 5:13Speaker 00

  No.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Dude, someone just took a iPhone 15, not a 16.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  They just took the camera,

• 5:19Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Expanded it to here and moved these two dots, and they're like, you've now got a iPhone.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  You have a 15, this is a 15.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  This is a 16.

• 5:27Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  But they should, they just expanded this part and be like, now you got a iPhone 17, bro.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  We'll see, I mean, I like the longer battery life and it's like faster charging and all that. I know the Air is slower charging, so I think it's more beautiful. I think I'll buy it for the next round, so we'll see how it goes. And I don't want the orange one because I don't want to draw attention either.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Do you use your battery life right now?

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, it actually drains it pretty quickly, and this is a 15 Pro.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  But it's two years old now.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  This is two years old, yeah, yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I get a new one every single year, not because of the features, for one reason.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  No, you didn't get a long, you didn't get a new one for a long time. You had a piece of crap for a very long time.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  But recently, for the last like three, four years, I've been getting a new one every year.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  Well, I, I, I get a new one because I get it for free. Where do you get a new one?

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Uh, I buy a new one because I want the battery life.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, well, there you go.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, because even if it says 27 hours,

• 6:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  After you use it for a year, it starts to degrade.

• 6:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know what, and you know what, I, I don't know if you do this because you're OCD, right? I wash my phone every day. Do you wash your phone?

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Not every day, maybe every like three, four days.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  You know it's dirtier than your toilet?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's right, I wash it every day.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Every three, four days.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know what happens is this charger starts to mess up, and so I have to use it, the, the side charger.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  I use the MagSafe. I have a little case that you put it in, and it just kills all the germs.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. Oh, you do that every day? Do you scan it with a purple light after?

• 6:45Speaker 01

  No, I have never tried to scan it with a purple light. I clean the phone a few times a week, right? Uh, hence I said like three, four days. Um, but the case thing, I probably use it maybe two, three times a week. I should be putting it in every day. I just don't. It could be because the one I have, it doesn't charge the phone. But if it charged the phone, I would use it at nighttime.

• 7:08Speaker 00

  So, okay, I just asked ChatGPT. I said, uh, is it better to wash my phone or UV light it? Um, and so this is kind of going on a tangent. We can, we can come back to this. And I want to come back to the Apple story real quick with Steve Wozniak. But, um, basically best practice is combination is ideal. Use a microfiber cloth or alcohol wipe to clean dirt oils, then UV light for added germ kill. If you only choose one for appearance and hygiene, wipe with alcohol solution for convenience and reducing wear UV sanitizer. Yeah, so it's basically what you do, actually.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the reason I end up doing that is it just helps keep my phone clean. And I don't clean it because of the toilet thing. I clean it because I want my screen to be, not have tons of prints. It just bothers me.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, because you're OCD. Dude, speaking of which, um, so the Apple co-founder, um, Steve Wozniak. So he actually responded on Reddit. I don't know if you saw this one, but he basically sold all of his wealth. So he gave all of his Apple wealth away because wealth and power are not what I live for. I have a lot of fun and happiness. He says, I have no idea how much I have, but after speaking for 20 years, it might be like $10 million plus a couple homes. So that is his entire net worth right now. It's not like he's filthy rich and worth like, uh, he could, he could be worth $3 trillion if he just held on to his shares. But, um, yeah, he, uh, he earns money from his labor and pays something like 55% combined tax on it. He says he's the happiest person ever. Life to me was never about accomplishment, but about happiness, which is smiles minus frowns. I like that, smile minus frowns is happiness.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  I developed these philosophies when I was 18 to 20 years old and I never sold out. So even though he's the co-founder of Apple, he just did things on his own terms and everyone has their own definition of happiness. But I, I thought that was interesting.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, whatever works for each individual. I don't think there is a right or wrong way. I have a friend, you know him, and he once told me, I think, like, to be happy, all you need to make is like eighty something thousand dollars a year. I forgot what the exact amount is.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  Seventy thousand.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  And it probably changes over time with inflation. So I don't know what it is in today's world.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  You're right, you're right. Ten years ago, no, no, when I first started in the workforce, it was seventy thousand dollars. It was a life hacker blog post. So now it's probably eighty, eighty-five, ninety thousand.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, something like that, right? Let's call it, you can even go random to a hundred. And this person still believes that. And they'd rather take pictures and travel the world and experience what they want. You know who it is at this point, versus go and make more money. And do I think that's a right or wrong approach? I think for them, that is the right approach because they're genuinely happy. They don't have kids, they're not married, they don't care for any of that. They just want to travel to new nature-related places and take beautiful pictures. And that's like their, you know, zen moment. And it's like, keep doing what you want to do.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  I want to ask you something. So personally, would you rather have relational wealth or financial wealth at the end of your, your life? What's more important?

• 9:50Speaker 01

  I think you know the answer to that. Financial wealth is useless at the end of your life.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Okay, how about now? Relational wealth versus financial wealth?

• 9:57Speaker 01

  It's a little bit different because I'm forty and I have kids and I'm married. So I would pick relational wealth.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, but how about ten years ago?

• 10:06Speaker 01

  It would just be pure financial.

• 10:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, so the, the reason I bring this up is because I, I've been filling out this five-minute journal probably for over ten, twelve years or so. Every day I write what I'm grateful for. I've noticed probably over the last five, ten years or so, it used to be things that I'd be grateful for every morning that I'd write this in. But then now it's always people. I'm always listing people every single day. I actually list you guys sometimes too. So yeah, I'm just constantly listing people. And then as we get older, you realize in your twenties, maybe, it's all about go, go, go, money, money, money, money, money. But then you realize all the money in the world is not going to help you if you don't have anybody to share it with. Frictionless Growth Marketing, hosted by Sonya Thompson, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Frictionless Growth Marketing, hosted by Sonya Thompson, shows how modern brands grow by removing the friction in their marketing and customer experience

• 10:49Speaker 00

  that pushes customers away every single day, often without leaders even realizing it. Each episode delivers practical insights, real brand examples, and conversations with marketing leaders, showing brands how to win with the new rules of growth, identity-driven marketing, cultural relevance, and frictionless customer experiences. Listen to Frictionless Growth Marketing wherever you get your podcasts.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  I don't know if it's about the twenties or thirties or forties. I think it's different for every person and here's why.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  You could be right on the stat or the number or the age range. But I think you and I are bad examples to ask because we have enough money. To genuinely live a very comfortable life, we have money. You agree with that statement? If another COVID happens and everything gets shut down, we have enough savings to ride on. Yeah. So when I pick relational wealth, that is. It's a skewed answer because I already have enough to be comfortable. And I believe you already have enough to be comfortable as well. So I think that changes our opinions compared to.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  You're right. We're biased because we live the lives that we live, right? But I would also say that I remember reading, you know, Morgan Housel, he wrote a book called The Psychology of Money, basically. And one time there was someone who wasn't wealthy or anything, but he pointed at a billionaire and said, I have something that they don't. I have enough, right? And so there's a lot of people we know that do modestly well. They do pretty well, right? But let's just say they make, you know, eighty, a hundred grand a year, which is like, it's decent, right? But they're not driven by money or anything. They just said they're really happy with their relationship with their family and their friends, right? And I see a lot of people, especially with my family, like that. And I'm sure you see the same thing too. So even though you and I might be biased, I think once you can get, I think once you can get to the point where you're little, I think they're a little bit older, all these people, it's like.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  But also comfortable. If you look at most of the people in your family, they all do decently well. They're comfortable.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  They do decent, but I wouldn't say they're like, I think a lot of them are, I would say they're middle class, right? Which is okay. And some of them are actually struggling a little bit too, but they're still happy with hanging out with their family and seeing their nieces and nephews all the time.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Yes, but if they were

• 12:57Speaker 01

  not able to afford groceries and put enough food on the table.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Well, at a certain point, yes, you have to focus on providing for yourself and for your family. But once you get the baseline to your point of seventy-five, eighty, a hundred K or whatever, I think chasing relational wealth is the thing. And I think we've been taught, I think I've been taught wrongly because Chinese culture is focused so much on money growing up. I don't know how you were taught, but like, at least, actually, if I hear my parents talking about money all the time, you get a little older, you get a baseline level of, you know, success. You're like, yeah, it's not about the money.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  So my parents are really interesting. They'll ask me typically when they come over. I see him at least a few times a month. You know, we were sick recently.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  Once a week?

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, if I'm not sick or anything, the kids aren't sick, once a week. Try to be respectful because they're older, so we don't want to get them sick. When we see him, my parents will usually ask, how's business? Right? If I say, business is good. Their usual response, not always, but typical response is something like, you should spend more time with your family, you work too much. You need to see your sister more, see us more. Better relationships with family, you know, work isn't everything.

• 14:11Speaker 00

  They're not wrong.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  But if I say business is bad.

• 14:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, work on the business.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Their typical response is, you need to work more. You know, but don't stress out too much. We want you to be happy, all will be okay. You know, you can always come move back with us if you lose everything. So it's like to like really doom and gloom.

• 14:32Speaker 00

  So you've optimized it more to say, oh, business is not that good. So they tell you to work more.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I just tell them the truth. Like if they say what's happening, I tell them. I'm like, business is, this has been a terrible year for business.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  We're okay, but it's been a terrible year. And they're like, don't stress. They're like, just keep in mind that you're okay. And my parents, you know, try to look at the light of things. And they'll tell me, yes, they say, you know, work hard. But I've been telling them business is bad for over a year at this point. So they don't push too much more on working hard. They try to push more on, don't stress out, everything's okay. You have enough money. If you don't, you can come live with us for free and you can have our house. Like they're really chill about it and they're just like ruining your health isn't worth making more money.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  That's interesting. Yeah, I think my parents probably more edge towards the relational side. Even my dad yesterday was like, you know, you haven't been to China for a very long time. Maybe you should go to China and find a wife. I'm like, anyway, we can continue on here. You can pick the next one.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Uh, let's see, let's talk about, uh, there was an interesting article on Chateau.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Chatopitik?

• 15:51Speaker 00

  What's Chatopitik?

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Chatopitik.com? I'm messing up the name.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  Chatoptic.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Chatoptic, thank you, Eric.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  I still butchered that one. I'm like Chatop, yeah, I'm like, oh dude, I just butchered that one. Sorry, Chatoptic. Okay, so they had an interesting article in the study. It was SEO does not equal GEO. Only sixty-two percent overlap between Google ranking and ChatGPT visibility. So they're saying if you rank on Google sixty-two percent of the time, you're gonna see that visibility on ChatGPT. And the other thirty-eight percent of the time, you will not. I still look at SEO and GEO very similar, but I agree. But it's the same goes that like saying, if you rank on Google, you're gonna rank on Bing. We all know that's not necessarily true because they have different algorithms. Sure, there's a lot of similar results on the first page for the same keywords,

• 16:44Speaker 01

  but not always. And I genuinely believe that no platform is gonna show identical results. Because if they do, there was no point in using them. Like if you use Bing and it's identical to Google, then why would you? You have to differentiate somehow. You're gonna have a little bit of different algorithms. But even then, going back to your study when it comes to Gemini, I have another one here. Did you know, and Searching Land publishes this, ninety-five percent of all ChatGPT users visit Google? Fourteen percent of Google users visit ChatGPT?

• 17:15Speaker 00

  That's the one I wanted to call out. Yeah, that's been shared quite a bit. So it does basically reinforce that right now, at least, Google is still very much king. It is the empire.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  It is, but no one wants to talk about it. And yet you look at their revenue and their profitability. They're doing phenomenal. And here's the thing, and this is just my opinion. If I look at the recent AI releases that Google has done versus ChatGPT, I would say in the last three, four months, Google has done a better job.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, VO3, Google Nano Banana, like those are things I can speak to. I will say ChatGPT to their credit to OpenAI, they've done a better, at least they have more of like a launch figured out with their new products. Like ChatGPT 5, they had all these things pushed out. And that was cool marketing, it's just the products didn't deliver. So if they combined the way they did marketing with Gemini's features or Google's features, that would be the best mix.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  And I would rephrase it, and I know you mean the same thing here. When I say rephrase it, I would say, Google releasing the features they are, but launch like Apple.

• 18:14Speaker 00

  Yes, launch like Apple, yeah, because OpenAI copies Apple.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I say Apple does a better job than OpenAI of creating hype and awareness and how they record their videos and stuff like that.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  And to be fair, though, like Google does their I/O event every year, and that kind of is Apple-esque. They probably just need to do more of it.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they should do specific videos just for the launch, like you go to Apple's website, and I'll go to the homepage of Google,

• 18:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  or type in any search for like, watch R in real time, the new launch of, you know, Google's X.

• 18:43Speaker 00

  You know what they need? They probably, and they probably have this already, but they need product marketers, because the problem with these things is like, Google Nano Banana, like you didn't know where to find it and how to access it in the beginning, right? VO3, it's like, where do I go to search for this stuff? And if it gets too confusing, people are just gonna drop out. Like, if you think of it as like a funnel, there's too much drop off.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Would you agree with the statement that you and I know more about most Google news because we keep up with the industry sites?

• 19:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Did you know I learned about Nano Banana first from, uh, what is it called? Twi- uh, X?

• 19:11Speaker 00

  X, yeah.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  And I saw all the examples on X, and I'm like, what the heck is this?

• 19:15Speaker 00

  X did the marketing for them.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  And the reason it went viral is because people were showcasing what they did with it. I'm like, this is cool. Who created this? How much did they raise? And then I'm like,

• 19:25Speaker 00

  Oh, Google.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  This is Google.

• 19:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  I'm like, no wonder it's so good.

• 19:29Speaker 00

  It's insane. And like, you know, what I constantly struggle with is like, man, should you and I be spending the time to learn this? So where I've landed on this, I'm curious to know where you've landed, is I'll play around with it a little bit just to understand how it works, but I'm not gonna go too deep. I need to know enough to be dangerous. But the thing is, as much as I want to obsess and dive into everything, it's not the best use of my time. How do you look at it?

• 19:49Speaker 01

  Very similar. I probably play along with it a little bit, or quite a bit less than you. So with their new features, uh, VO3, I've probably played around with it max two, three hours.

• 20:00Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Uh, over all the months it's been around.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Uh, Nano Banana.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Maybe 30 minutes, max?

• 20:07Speaker 00

  I'm actually the same as you. It's not that long on these.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  I probably spend a lot of hours on MCPs, or like Cursor and all that, but not on these things. Yeah. So it's the same, but like, I remember I workshop this with ChatGPT. I was like, "Man, I really want to play with these things, but this is the highest leverage thing I can do." And it knows what I'm focused on with my business. It's like, "No, the highest leverage thing for you is to know enough about these to hire the right people to run these things." So that's it for today, guys. Please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe, and we'll see you tomorrow.