Neil Trusts Meta's New AI Agent More Than ChatGPT

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire Eric and Neil open on Meta Muse, Meta's new autonomous agent, and Neil explains why he trusts Meta with it more than OpenAI or Anthropic: Meta has held everyone's data for years and people already live inside its products. Eric shows what his own Muse did in minutes, pulling Ryan Deiss's best Instagram formats and rewriting them for his channel, and argues that formats are now the job. Then the real debate: Neil says almost all of their content is still too broad, that specific content for a specific buyer drives revenue even at a fifth of the views, and that a room of enterprise marketers in Ecuador proved it when two or three percent knew he ran an agency. They land on a secondary hook, one line that says who you are and what your company does, placed wherever it sounds natural. A practical episode on trust, formats and making your content pay. Key takeaways◾Trust decides which AI agents win, and Meta starts with more of it than the labs◾Let an agent keep your format library fresh so you can just record◾Specific content converts; add a one-line credibility hook so buyers know who you are Chapters00:00 Meta Muse: Meta's autonomous agent00:34 Why Neil trusts Meta more than OpenAI02:35 Eric, the GrokBot team and Ryan Deiss03:49 Ryan's Instagram: niche or broad?05:46 Tier lists and reactions: the formats that work06:49 Eric's Muse rewrites Ryan's formats08:01 Neil: all three of us are still too broad09:50 Danger gets views: Nick Shirley10:47 A 100K-view video can be a great video11:44 Ecuador: 3% of the room knew Neil had an agency13:25 Accenture, TAM and who you're really selling to15:22 The secondary hook: say who you are16:50 Where the mention goes: wherever it's natural17:27 Test it: from 3% to 10% in a year

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:45Speaker 00

  Neil's got some thoughts as well. Let's start with you first, Neil. Like, have you been using it? Has your team been using it? Like, what are your thoughts around Meta Muse? And just so everyone knows, Meta Muse is the new autonomous agent that Meta came out with, which basically competes with agents such as Hermes. It competes with agents such as Grokbot. It competes with agents such as Instinct. And so this is their foray into autonomous agents.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I've been playing with it a little bit. I know my team uses it quite frequently. It helps with a lot of basic tasks that you could have assistant do, such as like emails and filtering and sorting. And, you know, it can do much more than that. But I was just trying to break it down on a very, very basic level that can apply to anyone here. The reason I think Meta Muse will succeed and actually do better than a lot of the counterparts, this is just my personal take, is Meta has trust. Say what you want about Meta and, you know, their lawsuit regarding exploiting or showing kids addictive content.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Meta is a really big company. I know that others are too, but they've been around for a long time. And people already have a lot of sensitive information on Meta. So they already trust them. And people are worried about Anthropic and OpenAI and all these hacking concerns and safety.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  I've done experiments with OpenAI or ChatGPT specifically, where I deleted all my history and waited, you know, and deleted all the files and waited thirty days and it was still pulling stuff up that it shouldn't have been able to pull up, you know, thirty-five, forty days later. They could claim that they're deleting all of it, but my experience with some of these other platforms on a trust issue isn't it, they're not at a place where I think people truly trust them. Where I don't really worry about that from Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Meta. I don't have those concerns, but I do have those concerns with OpenAI, Anthropic. Grok, I would put as unknown when it comes to a trust factor.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  I'm not saying I trust it as much, I don't trust it as much as a Facebook or Google or Amazon or Microsoft, but I trust it more than OpenAI and I trust it more than Anthropic.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. So here's what I'll say. I've become buddy-buddies with the Grokbot people. I've been like texting them, right? So they gave me their phone numbers, so I'm just texting them. And then I'm almost become like an official spokesperson for them, unofficial spokesperson, because they've been hooking it up with stuff, right? Here's what I'll say about Mark. So Grokbot, real quick. I trust Grokbot because when I talk to these people, they're the cursor team, basically. So the cursor team, the SpaceX team, when you listen to these people, when you, I don't know if you listened to the Gwen Shotwell and Elon Musk interview with the All In Podcast, because they had the conference earlier this week in LA, right? So I, when you listen to these people talk, when you look at what they've built so far, I'm like, there's trust there. I would say with Meta, I think it's 3.5 billion people in the world use Meta products every day.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  So you can say, whether you like them or not, you don't trust them. Like, the fact of the matter is, I think it's close to half of the world uses them every single day, right? Now, here's, here's what I like. So Neil and I, we know this guy, Ryan Dice, right? He's a great marketer. And I think he's doing a really good job with his Instagram right now. In fact, Neil, I think the formats that he's using, I'm like, oh, clearly, I think you should be doing it, Neil. I think I should be doing it as well. I'm just, I'm speaking for you as well, right? And you can disagree with me, that's fine. Let me just show you what he has, okay? So Neil, I'm sharing my phone with you right now. Those of you that can see my screen. So this is my phone. I'm in my phone right now. I'm looking at Ryan, right? And when I look at his videos, you know, he, from my understanding, and Neil, correct me if I'm wrong, but

• 4:33Speaker 00

  he's very focused on this scalable business, which is like helping other companies, like with operating systems and things like that, right? And so, you know, a lot of his videos over here, I think you have, what, like, what, 800,000 followers or something on Instagram?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Can't be that, but yeah, I have more than him.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, so he has 115,000, right? And so he has like 20,000 views over here, 10,000 views, 16,000 views. And so when I look at these things, okay, 8,000 views. Here's the thing, if we look at this, you know, do not hire a COO, attribution is scam, or expansion stage tier list. This is very niche, specific content, right? He is trying to target a specific type of founder, I would say, right?

• 5:10Speaker 01

  I don't think it's niche. I think he actually goes quite broad. I follow him. I've seen almost all his content.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  I think he's going for $20 million-plus founders when he does content like this, right? He is trying to say, hey, like, different stages, because he knows people are gonna grow into a certain stage. But he's just trying to show you the different, like, we're talking about management here. We're talking about, do you, when do you hire a COO or not? I don't think that's a very big TAM, Neil.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  It is. He's going after entrepreneurs. He's going after the whole market of entrepreneurs from everything that I can see.

• 5:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, but what I'm saying here is that, to me, it's a little more specific. Would you agree that it's a little more specific than what, how Hormozzi targets with his content?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  How Hormozzi used to target in the past or now? Hormozzi actually creates very specific content in today's world around like HVAC and service-based businesses. But I get what you mean. If you go back six months ago or a year ago, Hormozzi's was more broad.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  I think Ryan, to be specific on TAM, I think Ryan goes after entrepreneurs. And it's a pretty big category when you look at it population-wise. It's a, but the specific type of content that he's creating from a dollar perspective may not have the biggest TAM.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, so Neil, let me, let me show you some more examples here, right? Just to, just to make the case from my side. And then we'll go back into the Meta Muse thing real quick. So if I look at this one, okay, marketing channels at $20 million tier list, okay? Clearly, that's twenty, Neil even liked this one too. So $20 million tier list, right? So he's targeting $20 million-plus companies. Now, if you look at this one, Blind Ranking hires at 20 million in revenue, right? This one has, so that one, the tier one, 30,000 views, 9,000 over here. And then 12,000 on this one, metrics at 20 million. My point of saying this right now is I like his channel, because even though the views are less, he is targeting specifically here. And I think his formats, the formats that he's targeting over here are really good, right? He's got reaction videos, tier lists, and things like that. So I, with my Muse, let me just show you what I did, right?

• 7:03Speaker 00

  So my Meta Muse, Neil, I was just like, hey, so my Meta Muse is called Dudu. And so I just asked Dudu over here, I said, hey, I want you to look at Ryan Dice's Instagram channel. And, you know, Ryan's overlay over here, okay, here's a degree, here's a marketing degree in four books. I was like, here's your version, a revenue agent degree in four bots. I'm like, okay, not bad. I'm not gonna say it's great, right? Not bad. Bad, better, best. Bad, better, and best marketing habits from 200K to 20 million. That's Ryan's, right? My version might be bad, better, best, AI agent strategy, 200K to 20 million, bad, better, best. So at least this is less thinking on my side. I already know a format that works. And I can take all the best formats that I like, all the best offers I like, or like whoever I think is a competitor, and we can look at all their ad libraries.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  They have the largest corpus of data because they own Meta, right? They own Meta Ads. And so for me, I'm able to do a lot more things than I can't do necessarily with the other agents. And I also have connection to TailScale. What TailScale does, it's a little software that allows you to build like a private network of all the different devices that you have, right? So it could be your phone, your other computers, and things like that. This allows Meta Muse to control all those other devices, and so I can do more ultimately. And so they've already got the network as well, to Neil's point. They already have the trust. And if I want to grow my Instagram, I'm gonna go to them first. If I want to grow my Meta Ads, I'm gonna go to them first. If I want to understand who's performing really well from an ad library standpoint, they can do a deeper analysis there.

• 8:29Speaker 00

  And so that's why I think it's good for organic social, and I think it's also good for paid social as well.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but but but to go back, and I think this is the problem with social media. If you look at the examples Eric gave, and even a lot of the content Eric creates, and even the content that I create, I think all three of us don't get specific enough. And I'm actually having this debate with my team. I have a call with them at two P M. today about this, in which it's still too broad. Like, if you look at like the four best or marketing degrees, like, this is not stuff that's going to generate customers. And I think we're in a world, or not even think, I know we're in a world where people can get knowledge from anywhere. They can get general knowledge from just chat G P T or Google or YouTube videos. But most of that stuff doesn't actually drive revenue.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  And I believe the more specific you get with your content, even if it drives one third, one fourth, one fifth of views, at least from our own data that we see, it just drives more revenue. Right? So instead of like, here's the best way to do G E O and get chat G P T to mention you. And I have some generic videos. I know Eric liked one of them, and he even sent me one where my team messed up the labeling on one of the videos. So appreciate that, Eric. In which I did a video on A E O versus S E O versus G E O. I still believe that was too generic. And I was telling my team, I'm like, we should be talking about how to do G E O in fifty different languages in fifty different countries on one domain or five different domains or stuff like that.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Or, um, you know, how do you get chat G P T? How do you get chat G P T to pull from your regional brand instead of your international brand? And I think these are very specific problems that big companies have. They won't get tons of views, but you'll really see the revenue from that in the long.

• 10:22Speaker 00

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• 11:06Speaker 00

  That is my ad agency again, W W W dot singlegrain.com. Check it out. And if it seems like a fit, we'll get in touch and help you with a free marketing plan. So two things I want to call out here. So, um, I was, I was listening to the Nick Shirley. So Nick Shirley, um, he's the guy that exposes fraud on YouTube. I was listening to his interview on the All In, um, event this week, right? Uh, this morning, when I was at the gym. And what's interesting is Jason Calacan is like, hey, why put yourself into danger when you're exposing fraud? Like, your, your physical body is there, like, people want to, like, attack you and things like that. Why put yourself into danger? He's like, it gets more views. And so we're in a world right now where things get more views. People need entertainment, and I've seen it, like, I've seen people just doom scroll all the time, right? And so we have, we kind of have to play into that.

• 11:49Speaker 00

  That's like a, just how the world works situation. But the other thing is, um, I saw this marketer, um, who, who I, I, I, I think he does a great job, Alex Garcia. So he's getting, it's, it's, it's interesting. He hosted a dinner with a bunch of entrepreneurs, right? And a bunch of marketers. And everyone's, I think, is wearing a mic. And like, everyone's getting recorded on the conversations they're having. So I, I'm not sure I would do that, because I would rather have a more open conversation. Yeah, I don't, I don't, like, when I host a private dinner, like, I want to talk about stuff that, that won't get outside the room, right? So anyway, but, um, he was just saying, look, man, like, let's say you're a creator, and then you're used to getting, you know, two million views a video or something like that. And when you have a video that you put out there, and it gets a hundred thousand views, you consider it bad because you've tried to sell on that video? That's actually a really good video, right?

• 12:32Speaker 00

  So what I'm really trying to say here is like, okay, I'm one, and people have to create for other, to, to entertain almost the audience. That's one piece of it, which is why the formats work so well, which is why, Neil, when, when you and I just teach, those formats don't do well on Instagram, right? Or short form. They used to, but the algorithms have changed quite a bit, because the stakes have changed in terms of what people want. But also, the second piece, too, is like, if you have more followers, like, I look at, and followers aren't the main thing, but if you have more reach, I would say, in general, you can actually afford to go wider TAM sometimes, but sometimes you can go a little, uh, you can try to sell on a video, and you might get way less views. Instead of two million, you get a hundred thousand, but that's still a pretty good video, so.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I also think it's the type of business that you run, too, right? If you're in B to C, I totally get the view game. Um, and in B to B, it could be as well, because if your market is broad enough in B to B, like, you're selling software for fifty bucks or a hundred bucks, it's pretty broad, you may want to start going, uh, to a larger TAM. What I found, at least with my business, is our best clients are enterprise clients. The churn is less. No matter how much marketing that I do that is broad, it doesn't cause them to convert. The more specific I, content I create, the better off I do. And a real life example of this is, I just came back from Ecuador last night, like, no joke, at midnight.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  And when I was speaking in Ecuador, I talk about, you know, how to do marketing in the new age. There's a lot of companies there. Um, Ecuador has roughly eighty million dollars, or eighty million, not dollars, eighty million, uh, you know, population. A lot of the banks were there, a lot of the car manufacturers were there. It was just a, a lot of logistics companies, and you'd be like, logistics, there's money in logistics. Like, some of these shipping container companies generate billions and billions of dollars every single week in revenue. Um, so it was, and it was an expensive conference, so it was pretty much pure enterprise. Now, a lot of telcos were there, et cetera. Even after my presentation, you want to know that, when I was talking to most people, how many of them do you think knew I had an agency?

• 14:36Speaker 01

  If you had to take a guess, Eric?

• 14:37Speaker 00

  Maybe twenty-five percent?

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Eric's very nice. Um, it was probably, if I had a guess, closer to like two or three percent.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  Wow, two or three percent? That's crazy.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  And they follow me, they see a lot of the broad content, not one of them in the room hired us, okay? Not in the past, they weren't even thinking about us current, they look at me as a personal brand. And when I talk about my ad agency, N P Digital, which is one of the reasons why I speak at all these events, because it gets the name more out there, they think that it's great education, and it helps them figure out where to go in the future with their other ad agencies and prospects. I even met one of the guys who runs Omnicom for Ecuador, all right? Which Omnicom is one of the largest agencies out there. He's like, oh, I didn't know you had an agency.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  And, uh, you know, the, the main point I'm making is, depending on who your ideal audience is, like, mine is enterprise, and I'm trying to go up to larger and larger organizations, because like Accenture does not look at us as enterprise. It would look at us as maybe mid-market. Because for Accenture, a decent contract is maybe, you know, ten million dollars, a larger contract starts getting into the nine figures. We're not enterprise if you compare it to how much Accenture charges. But if you look at Accenture, even though they're posting all this type of content online, and you should do marketing, when you go too broad, it doesn't cause Accentures of the world to be worth two hundred billion dollars. You have to do very specific marketing to your ideal customer to really grow, if your

• 16:13Speaker 01

  goal is enterprise, but I would say it's different if your goal is, um, a bigger TAM from a population perspective, like selling toilet paper or selling to S and Bs versus, uh, going after very specific pool of people, and there's a much smaller pool. And to use Ryan as an example, his population TAM of going after entrepreneurs that are doing twenty million plus in revenue is much bigger than my TAM, where we're looking for companies ideally generating at least a billion dollars in revenue a year or more.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  So I have an idea, Neil. Do you want to hear the idea?

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 16:49Speaker 00

  Okay, but first you have to put your microphone in front of you.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:54Speaker 00

  All right, there we go. All right, so I had a guy, um, his name's Ryan To, very smart, uh, social media strategist, right? And he's done really well with his, um, his Instagrams. And he's like, you know what your problem is? And I'm like, what's the problem? So he did an audit for me, right? And I think this audit applies to both you and me. And so he's like, the problem is, both you and Neil, so he spoke about both of us, is you two have credibility. He's like, a young person like me, because he's in his early or mid twenties right now, we don't have credibility, so we have to do all this other stuff and like, formats, and we have to record in all these different ways, and like, record, like, you're in the shower, maybe you're in the airplane or whatever, right? The more interesting it is, like, whatever, you're in the toilet, whatever, right? Um, he's like, but you're missing something. I'm like, what am I missing, right? So he sends me this audit document, and he's like, you can lead with the hook to get people in, but you should have a secondary hook. I'm like, what's a secondary hook?

• 17:38Speaker 00

  He's like, because you have credibility, it's like, hey, okay, um, you know, chat G P T six Ostra is amazing, you know? By the way, my name is Neil Patel, and my company, N P Digital, has worked with Fortune five hundreds, or da, da, da, da, da, right? For like, a quick one liner. He's like, that helps people understand who you are, and then you can go into the video. And I'm like, doesn't that drop the retention? He's like, doesn't matter, because you're trying to get more sales at the end of the day, right? I'm like, huh. So I, I just started doing that recently, I don't know how that's going to go, but my sense is like, it's starting to feel more natural, because I do see people include that sometimes. I'm like, yeah, why, why aren't we not doing that? I'm like, maybe you can do it, too. So I'm just going to pass it over to you, you do it if you want.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  No, I already do it. And you know where I got this idea from? You! You told me to start doing it on YouTube. I said, I've been doing it for six plus months.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  Not on YouTube, for, uh, for I G reels. On YouTube, I told you to add the mid roll. You, so I watched one of your videos recently, you put the, the ad at the end. I like to put it at twenty-five percent.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Well, we don't do end, we don't do mid roll, we don't do beginning, we do wherever it fits naturally. So what we found is with YouTube, we see a massive drop off the moment we say it, but we still say it, and we say it wherever it's natural or it makes sense. Uh, but, you know, we don't do it on reels, like you're saying.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, so he said, he brought that up on reels. And so like, first I thought it was a little awkward, but I started doing it a little, I need to do it, I need, I just started testing this, right? I'm going to need to test it a lot more. But once he brought that up, I started noticing some other people that do it. I'm like, it is actually fairly natural to see it. And so, once they watch, like, I don't know, seven or fourteen of your reels, whatever, and they've seen that enough times, like, they should remember that you have an agency. So my, my, my bet is like, that's worth testing. If we come back to this in a year, maybe that two to three percent number is maybe like ten percent.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, I, I, I think it's worth testing.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  All right. So anyway, guys, that is it for today. We hope you enjoyed it, and we'll catch you tomorrow.