#421 — "More From Sam": Political Violence, Iran, Deportations, Protests, & Rapid Fire Questions

In this latest episode of the "More From Sam" series, Sam hopped back on with his manager and business partner, Jaron Lowenstein, to talk about current events and answer some of the questions you all submitted on Substack. They discuss the assassination of Minnesota state representative Melissa Hortman and the recent uptick in political violence, Elon's comments about Trump's involvement with Jeffrey Epstein, Iran, deportations, the LA protests, Sam's recent appearance on Jordan Peterson's podcast, and rapid fire questions. Produced by Griffin Katz

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Sam Harris?

  Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're hearing this, you're not currently on our subscriber feed, and will only be hearing the first part of this conversation. In order to access full episodes of the Making Sense Podcast, you'll need to subscribe at samharris.org. We don't run ads on the podcast, and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support of our subscribers. So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Hey Sam, how you doing?

• 0:37Sam Harris?

  Good. How's it going?

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Going well. Did you have a nice Father's Day?

• 0:40Sam Harris?

  Uh, I did. You?

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Uh, we don't really do anything. It's, uh, I don't even know how to celebrate.

• 0:45Sam Harris?

  You don't observe?

• 0:46Speaker 01

  We don't observe. It's, I feel like every day is Father's Day in my house.

• 0:49Sam Harris?

  I got one card. I've got two daughters, one card, so that was, uh, it was sweet.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  That's better than I got. Alright. Well, let me set this series up. Alright, hi everybody and welcome to another episode of More From Sam. As a reminder, the goal of this series is to get more from Sam on current events more often, and also to share a more fun side of Sam. Sam, you have a fun side. Plenty of heavy shit to discuss, but in this series, we're allowed to have fun doing it. The tone is faster paced, which includes interruptions because they create more energy. I am here to surface Sam's ideas, so don't get caught up on what you think my actual positions might be. It doesn't matter. Everybody loves a spicy Sam, so I'm going to do what I can to get more of that. And lastly, this series is not meant to be, thank you. It's not meant to be a replacement for anything. It's simply in addition to what Sam is already doing. Also, Sam has some tour dates coming up this fall that have already been announced.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  New York and Boston in October are nearly sold out. I think there are about a hundred tickets last I checked in each of those cities. And Seattle, and nice job, Sam. Well done. Thanks to all those in New York and Boston who have quickly bought tickets. And Seattle and San Jose in September are each a little over 50% sold as well. So if you want tickets to any of those shows, you can head over to samharris.org. Also, we're about to announce... Chicago. So that's coming this week. In order to get, yeah, it should be fun. In order to get a access to the pre-sale, you must be a paid subscriber to the podcast and then there'll be a general on-sale shortly thereafter. Anyway, all this info can be found on the website. And if you're on the mailing list, be on the lookout for something

• 2:20Speaker 01

  coming very soon. Sam, are there any quick thoughts on these shows you can share with us? Something the audience should?

• 2:26Sam Harris?

  Uh, just that I'm looking forward to them. I'm gonna write a talk and so the first hour will not be extemporaneous. It'll, I mean, maybe I'll say something, there'll be some marginalia as I work from what I've prepared. But no, I'm actually going into this wanting to put my thoughts in order and I love the excuse to be able to do that. So it feels almost like I'm, I have to write a, a short book between now and then, but I will, I will do that and I'll come prepared to tell people what I'm thinking about.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  That'll be fun. And then the second half, we'll do a, an episode of more from Sam, this kind of vibe where we can

• 3:02Sam Harris?

  Yeah.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Incorporate some of the current events.

• 3:05Sam Harris?

  I mean, I think what I want to do is I want to field the questions in advance that we know are most pressing, especially things that I have said or failed to say that, that the, the audience finds most, you know, galling. So I just will, we'll, we'll get the hardest questions and one, I may, I'll probably anticipate some of those in, in my talk, but you know, we'll, we'll store them up for each event and, and deal with them, you know, in the second hour or two. So.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Well, we'll do that. That's what we do for every episode here. So that shouldn't be too hard. All right. So there's no shortage of things to cover on this episode. So let's get into it. I want to start with the political violence that took place this past weekend in Minneapolis, where a state representative and her husband were murdered in their home and a state senator and his wife were shot multiple times at their house and have thankfully survived. You got Trump, Josh Shapiro, two employees at the Israeli embassy, and you could throw in the United Healthcare CEO as well. What's going on with the explosion of political violence? And is this a new norm we should come to expect?

• 4:01Sam Harris?

  Well, I mean, it's obviously awful. It's also memetic. We know that people find this kind of, the kind of notoriety that shooters get somewhat contagious. Right? So, you know, we've had episodes like this before in our past. I mean, not for a very long time, but obviously the late 60s was a time where we were sort of in freefall with respect to assassinations. I mean, it's awful. I think, you know, the thing that is, I mean, the only governor we have on it, apart from catching people and or providing great security so as to make it effectively impossible, is to shun any political rhetoric that directly inspires this kind of behavior.

• 4:46Sam Harris?

  And unfortunately, both sides, not both sides equally, but both sides have at various points tipped over into, you know, ways of speaking about their political opponents that have been totally irresponsible. And I would put Trump at the top of this list of people who has been.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Who's got the timer? How long did it take to bring Trump up there?

• 5:04Sam Harris?

  Well, I mean, it's just, yeah, but it's just the fact that here's somebody who has normalized political violence in several respects. I mean, his response to January 6th was a great act of normalization. You get, you have people who are literally stabbing cops in the face with flagpoles and they've been exonerated as American heroes. Yeah, all of that is part of what has pushed us to this moment, I think, so.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I don't, do you think we have to doge our, the way that we treat these people? Instead of letting them become celebrities so quickly? Can't we just find these people that commit these heinous acts and disappear them very quickly?

• 5:41Sam Harris?

  We try to do that. I mean, sometimes better than others, but we did that effectively with, at least to my eye, we did that with the shooter for, who tried to kill Trump. I mean, as evidenced by the fact that I can't even remember his name.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I think he was just killed right there on the spot. I think that's what happened.

• 5:57Sam Harris?

  Yeah, but like, we haven't talked about him. He's not a, uh, he's not a martyr to any cause. In fact, we don't even, you know, I don't happen to know much about what his cause was. I mean, how, how much was mental illness and how much was an actual ideological motivation? Uh, we've been, we've been better in recent years about doing that. Whether it's political violence or just violence. I mean, the Vegas shooter who still, um, killed more people, um, than any shooter in American history. Uh, again, I've forgotten his name. I once knew it, but he, that was memory holes within like 72 hours of the occurrence. So I think we're, we're getting better at it. But the way we are talking about our politics, I think is just, it's not reminiscent of

• 6:41Sam Harris?

  any recent period in American history. I mean, we just, we're so uncivil. I mean, this is of a piece with a US Senator being, you know, wrestled to the ground and handcuffed at a press conference for Kristi Noem, right? And the fact that his Republican colleagues in the Senate didn't immediately, or Congress didn't immediately condemn that. In fact, some of them lined up on the other side and castigated him for some impropriety that they thought warranted his manhandling there. The thing that we're not recognizing is that civility is, is the last stop before violence, right? I mean, the civility is not just a, a nice to have. It's really a must have when you're talking about discussing politically polarizing issues.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I want to get to Alex Padilla and a little bit of that later because I do think what he did, you know, perhaps had some impact on changing the course of events there. It seems that that's been, that's been walked back, but we'll, we'll get back to that in a bit. Or the, the ICE raids have been, have been walked back because of the idea that apparently it's impacting the farming industry and the hotel industries, the hospitality.

• 7:48Sam Harris?

  I wonder what those phone calls were like.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Well, no shit. I mean, I, I, what a dummy. Like, how obvious was that for him to say, um?

• 7:55Sam Harris?

  Yeah, but how, but also how dysfunctional is it that really what, what accomplished this change in policy undoubtedly were a bunch of rich. Friends of the president calling and saying, listen, you're fucking up my hotel business. This.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  It has nothing to do with the humanity of it.

• 8:12Sam Harris?

  Yeah, it's nothing to do with the with wisdom or pragmatism or ethics or anything. It's just pure patronage. I mean, this is, this is what is turning us into a banana republic. What Trump has done is he's put himself at the bottleneck of everything. And he's using both domestic and foreign policy to dole out favors and to friends and punish enemies. I mean, the thing that is so despicable about the Republicans now is that no one objects to this. That's what was amazing to see in the falling out with Elon. What, you know, you have all these people who, many of whom are welcoming Elon back into the fold. I mean, just desperate to to patch up this marriage.

• 8:52Sam Harris?

  And yet they're not acknowledging how corrosive it is to have a president who immediately goes to, if Elon supports any Democrats, there'll be extraordinary consequences. Right? He's threatening him with with what? A judicial investigation or a loss of contracts? He's using the levers of government power to say that his former friend shouldn't fund political opposition in this country. And everyone on the Republican side accepts that as somehow normal. This is, you know, authoritarian is the generic term for it. I mean, this is not remotely normal in American politics.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  No, no, no. Well, you know, you talked about while we're talking about Musk in your recent Substack piece, you torched him. And this is something you and I were talking about earlier. That Musk has admitted that he went overboard with something that resembled, I guess, an apology on Twitter. But what he's saying here really matters. I mean, we shouldn't be quick to forget what he's basically saying. He's saying that he's either someone who has no morals, who just was happy to work with Trump, who was a rapist, a child rapist, and he was just fine because, well, he had shared interests. Or he completely made up an insane lie about his friend, you know, someone who he loved as much as any man could love another. So either way, and the reason why I think it matters is because according to your latest podcast,

• 10:19Speaker 01

  I think it was Daniel or I forget his last name, he just spoke to about AI. One of these guys could very soon become the leader of the most powerful AI army in the world. And, you know, we should care about the character of these individuals.

• 10:35Sam Harris?

  Yeah, I don't know how we got here, but we seem to have, at least half of our society seems to think that we, the personal integrity of the most powerful people in our society doesn't matter. Right? It's just like, it doesn't make, like, you can have the most self-interested unethical people you can find, give them basically all the power human beings can have, and you could just expect everything to work fine. Now, it would be great to have, have systems, to have laws and institutions that were totally impervious to bad actors. I mean, that would be the dream. It's an unrealistic one. Clearly, we don't have anything like that currently in the US government.

• 11:18Sam Harris?

  So it matters whether psychologically normal, at a minimum, psychologically normal people are in charge, right? And we, we just don't have that. We have narcissists and liars and confabulators and, and in certain cases, I think mentally unstable people.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  But I think a lot of times when you talk like that, people think you exaggerate. But right here, right here, we saw Elon Musk and we, we know.

• 11:42Sam Harris?

  Well, even on the president's account, he's gone, he went crazy, right? So he's unstable. I mean, I think most people will admit that at a minimum, he's unstable.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  But like, these are the two worst options.

• 11:52Sam Harris?

  But yes, those two interpretations of Elon's character. One, he was happy to collaborate with a person he knew to be a child rapist or an enabler of child rape. Or two, he was willing to claim that if a person who is his favorite person on earth 10 minutes ago was a child rapist, the moment their interests were no longer aligned. You pick your, your favorite interpretation of his character there, because that exhausts the possibilities.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  But why isn't that being talked about more?

• 12:19Sam Harris?

  Because again, right of center, nobody cares about a person's character. They they'll care about they care about Hunter Biden's character, apparently, right? They care about whether Joe Biden's inner circle knew that he wasn't compos mentis and were letting letting the country, you know, have a somewhat vacant presidency or a presidency by committee, right? That strikes them as just adjacent to evil. But nothing on their own side matters, including, I mean, they were completely unfazed. The people who thought Elon was this absolutely impeccable omnibus genius, when he alleged that, you know, mark my words, Trump is a is a child rapist. In so many words, he alleged that.

• 13:04Sam Harris?

  He doubled down on that tweet, said, you know, just flag this tweet, flag this post, come back to this post, mark this post, however he put it, you know, the the truth will come out, right? He's claiming to have certain knowledge of Trump's criminal culpability, right? All these people who were who were up to that moment, thought Elon could do no wrong. What did they think? They they did any of them care? And and these are also people, the irony is that these are also people who are disproportionately fixated on the problem of pedophilia. You know, half of them think there's a pedophile cult running the world. They certainly don't think Epstein killed himself. They think lots of powerful people were are culpable for an immense cover up there.

• 13:48Sam Harris?

  And to to hear that Elon knows and promises you that you will know soon, if you just watch this space, you soon will know that Trump is one of these sinister rapists or enablers of rapists. How many of them cared? Where were the the Jack Posobics and the Charlie Kurks and the other grifters and confabulous, the pizza gate dummies, the Mike Shterovich? Where were they like, where, how did how did they not jump into that space? One way or the other, either either Elon is lying and he's pure evil. He's smearing the president with the worst aspersion that can be summoned to a human mind. Or you trust Elon because goddamn. He knows everything and he's been on the inside and he has all the data.

• 14:32Sam Harris?

  And you you sort of know anyway that Trump is like this. You know, he was friends with Epstein for many, many years. You know, he's celebrated Epstein's sexual conquests and even named the fact that he likes his ladies young. He said that some people say that he likes beautiful women even more than I do and he likes sure likes them young, right? That's that's practically verbatim, right? You know that that that in his sixties, probably. He was storming the dressing rooms of teenage girls at the Miss America pageant. You know that he's just right on the edge of doing this anyway, all by himself, right? And yet, who cared? Right? This is, I mean, it's not even hypocrisy. It's just a complete vacancy of a moral sensibility. Right of center now.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Well, they and they rightly care about lawlessness, too.

• 15:20Sam Harris?

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Except for January 6th.

• 15:22Sam Harris?

  Only on one side. Yeah, yeah.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Right?

• 15:25Sam Harris?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  So.

• 15:25Sam Harris?

  But I mean, but that, I don't know. I mean, you know, one can imagine it's going to normalize at some point. I think part of it is the characters we have in play, you know, I just, I don't, I don't know that you can get a delusional cult under somebody like J D Vance, but I'm sure the Republicans will give it a good, hard try.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  All right, switching gears, let's talk about Israel and Iran. Any early thoughts on that?

• 15:49Sam Harris?

  Well, it's not going to surprise you that I think that they are fighting our war in some respect. I mean, they're fighting their own war, too, because a nuclear armed Iran is definitely an existential concern for them. And if you doubt that, you just haven't been paying attention to what Iran has said for the last 20 plus years. I mean, the Iranian regime is explicitly a a theocratic death cult. I mean, this is a jihadist regime of a Shiite variety that has had as its special focus for years and years, the eradication of Israel. And so this is not a metaphor for anything. This is if, once we get a bomb, we're going to turn Israel into glass, right?

• 16:29Sam Harris?

  And I think the Israelis are have to take that threat at face value. I mean, I think the lesson that the world should learn is that if you're going to be explicit. In your genocidal aspirations, your neighbors, whoever you're targeting with this, with these malicious hopes, your neighbors are justified in coming across your border and killing the principal bad actors. But I mean, words matter, right? And so if you're bluffing, you know, it's on you to not do that again, right? It's just, so I think it's completely warranted. I think this is a commercial for what we should have done years ago, we being the United States.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  And you think the Iranians would use a nuke? No doubt about it if they got it?

• 17:12Sam Harris?

  Yeah. I mean, one, if they didn't use a nuke, if they just had them, I think they would do all the awful things they've been doing anyway. I mean, what's amazing is how deterred we, the Americans. If you'd like to continue listening to this conversation, you'll need to subscribe at samharris.org. Once you do, you'll get access to all full-length episodes of the Making Sense podcast. The Making Sense podcast is ad-free and relies entirely on listener support. And you can subscribe now at samharris.org.