Raghu Bala - The Internet of AI Agents Is Coming And It Will Change Everything

🍿Watch The Full Episode: https://londonreal.tv/bala PLEASE SHARE 🙌 🤖 The Internet of AI Agents is here — and it's about to transform how we live, work, and connect! In this eye-opening episode, Brian Rose talks with Raghu Bala about the next tech revolution where intelligent AI agents collaborate, trade, and build a smarter digital world. 💡✨ Discover how this shift will reshape industries, decentralize power, and create massive new opportunities in Web3 and beyond! 🚨 Learn To Make Money In Crypto: 💰The Investment club: https://londonreal.tv/club 💰Crypto & DeFi Academy: https://londonreal.tv/defi

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What's going to happen next is going to revolutionize how everyone is going to see agents. Synertex is powering the agent economy. One morning, I woke up with this epiphany. I said, "Oh, I can see the future." The next four hours, I was just feverishly typing all of my ideas which became the passion. It's a set of building blocks that you need in order to make the agent economy happen. You and me are going to create our own digital twins. They'll look like us, they'll talk like us. Your twin could be shopping for you while you are busy doing other things. You can be so much more productive. All of the devices, they will be agents. Every car, every parking meter, every toll booth, everything around us is going to become a smart device.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  I know you talk to companies like Google and Deloitte. You're going to try to help them send those agents out into the real world. That's what got our attention.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  Every company has sort of moved from a human-centric workforce to a hybrid workforce, a mirror-up of humans and agents. Now it's a question of whether you can catch up or not.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  You're a head learning facilitator of MIT courses. What's it like being associated with that institution? And then going there regularly and be able to meet with all the people that come there?

• 1:20Speaker 00

  When you get these really bright minds together in a room, it's just incredible what happens because that starts to then germinate into various branches of ideas that you then connect later on.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  You've had four exits. What keeps you excited? What keeps you building?

• 1:42Speaker 00

  I'm just passionate about the field. I want to be in on the next new thing. Let's focus on what's cool and let's go and do that. And that's what keeps me driven.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  The world is changing.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Inspiration is everywhere.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  It has never been so easy to connect, share, and bring people together.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  We're learning from others and finding the best in ourselves.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Challenging our beliefs.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Sharing our vulnerability.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Overcoming our fears.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Transforming ourselves so we can transform the world.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  How far can we go?

• 2:48Speaker 02

  This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is...

• 3:02Speaker 01

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• 3:58Speaker 01

  This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Raghu Bala, the technology entrepreneur, educator, and founder of Synergetics, a company which is powering the tokenized AI agent economy with the world's first patented A to A communication protocol. You've held senior roles at Yahoo, InfoSpace, and PWC, had four successful startup exits, and hold an MBA from the Wharton School and a master's degree in computer science from RPI. You're also the head managing instructor for two U's MIT Sloan School's AI and blockchain programs, and an adjunct professor at VIT in India. At Synergetics, your mission is to empower the agentic AI ecosystem, a world where autonomous AI agents,

• 4:43Speaker 01

  digital twins, and devices can interact, transact, and learn. With the upcoming launch of the SGTX token, Synergetics is helping build the financial and technical backbone of the agent economy. Raghu, welcome to London Real.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  Thanks for having me, Brian.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  It's great having you here. I want to start by saying that Synergetics is one of our portfolio companies here at London Real Ventures, the world's first media-powered investment firm, where our mission is to transform the world by investing in cutting-edge Web3 and AI companies while giving our partners exposure across the London Real Media Platforms and Academies. We heighten awareness, create customers, and build communities by leveraging our global audience and network. Raghu, we are super excited to be part of this journey with you. So, let's jump in. What is Synergetics?

• 5:30Speaker 00

  So, Synergetics is powering the agent economy. So, for all of us, we've seen other economies develop. So, for example, if you look at YouTube, so it's a meeting place for creators, for advertisers, and consumers to come in, and they all transact. I mean, consumers consume content, creators create that content, and advertisers help monetize that content by sharing the proceeds with the creators. So, the same way, we are seeing the same movement happen again, but this time around for agents. And so currently, what's happening in the industry is everyone has used probably ChatGPT. So that's like the first real consumer version of AI.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  AI has been around for a long time. I've used it even during my Yahoo days. But for the everyday person, AI has been sort of not within reach, but until ChatGPT came around. So ChatGPT is a simple application that's built on top of a model and so on, right? So what happens is now AI is just almost like, think of it as electricity. Now, what came after electricity was you had light bulbs, you had electric trains, you had television, you had motion picture, you had everything, all of those powered by electricity. So the way I look at it is foundation models are like electricity. They gave us the building blocks. Now, what do we do with it?

• 6:59Speaker 00

  And agents are the first sort of manifestation of that electricity in a kind of a kinetic form, where it can start to do things. And so agents currently are being used by enterprises within the organization. But then that's a sort of a short-term trend. I mean, the beginning is the foundations. But what's going to happen next is going to revolutionize how everyone is going to see agents. Because what's going to happen on the consumer side, you and me are going to create our own digital twins. Our twins will be replicas of us. They'll look like us, they'll talk like us, they'll speak in many more languages than you and I even know.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  But they can be our sort of alter ego online and be able to conduct transactions on our behalf. So Brian, you might be running or practicing for your next marathon. But then your twin could be shopping for you while you are busy doing other things. And and then you have empowered your twin to do various things and it'll complete those tasks. And so you can be so much more productive. But the same thing with companies. Companies are going to have twins or their agents be able to transact with other agents outside the enterprise, with their suppliers, their partners, so on and so forth.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  So for that to happen, you need the agent economy in place. And that Asian economy needs many building blocks. And that plumbing, those building blocks are what we have built in Agent Works, our flagship platform.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  And is that based on the patent that you have on this A to A technology? It was one of the reasons we were really drawn to you. Because there's a lot at stake here, and if you get this wrong, I mean, you could ruin companies. You could lose billions, I would think. And so this exact protocol is important. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about the patent and how your tech is different.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  Sure. So actually, one morning, I think in 2024, I woke up one Sunday morning. I don't know, maybe I had a good night's sleep or whatnot.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  I woke up with this epiphany. I said, oh, I can see the future. I know exactly when this happened because the next four hours, I was just feverishly typing all of my ideas, which became the patent. And but it's a set of building blocks that you need in order to make the Asian economy happen. So the first building block is agents need to have identity. So without identity, nothing else matters. But that identity needs to be registered somewhere. And that's where the registry comes in. So the registry is like a Yellow Pages, old fashioned Yellow Pages where you look up people's names. Here you look up people, the ID of the agent. So why do you need that?

• 10:01Speaker 00

  You need that for a process called discoverability. So I'll just give you a quick note on that. That's very important, a very crucial part, which is why we are partnered with MIT Media Lab on these registries. So for instance, it's a kind of a funny quiz I give some of my coworkers. I said, if you're one person, you need no connections, you don't want to connect. If you have two, you have one connection. If you have three people, you have three connections. A connects to B, A connects to C, B connects to C. If you have four people, A connects to B, A connects to C, A connects to D, and then vice versa. All of them connect. It's six connections. So that's called N times N minus one over two.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  The O N square problem in computer science. That means it's got a complexity of N square. Now, when you have a registry, that complexity gets down to one. That means if I want to connect with you, I don't need to know your address a priori. I just have to look it up in the registry and say, let me get the address of Brian's twin and then connect with Brian's twin, like that. So, this is, I know it gets a bit technical, but it's very important because it reduces complexity. So, the idea is all the agents in the world will ultimately register themselves with the registry. So, we have our registry, other companies like Google and Salesforce and ServiceNow and so on, they're all creating registries.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  And so, the folks at MIT and us got together and one of the things that we decided to build, co-develop was a registry of registries, which is like a Yellow Pages of Yellow Pages, where all of the world's agents can be somehow traced. And so, if anyone wants to talk to anyone, they can look it up and that becomes like an index. Very similar to how Google is an index of web pages, this is an index of all the agents in the world. So, that's a critical building block. So, you have ID, you have registry. The next thing, if you want the agent economy to function, just like you and I carry our driver's license in our wallet, the agent has a wallet.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  And that wallet contains not only a driver's license, we normally carry credit cards or currency so that you can go out and buy a cup of coffee. So, same way here, the agents have got a wallet which has cryptocurrency or stable coins. And now, that's the third building block. The fourth building block is where the A to A protocol comes in. So, at this point, I've described an ID and so on. We have

• 12:39Speaker 00

  The agent also has a name. So, we have the lock on .dot-twin. So, you can have Brian dot twin. That TLD belongs to us. We have partnered with Unstoppable Domains on that. So, then, the next step is this agent will have to communicate with websites or with other agents. So, this is where A2A comes in. So, websites, you can connect via this protocol that Anthropic produced, which is becoming the standard for industry called MCP, Model Context Protocol. And then with other agents, you need to use agent-to-agent protocol. And this is where we had our patent approved in February of this year.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  It's called Agent Talk. And it describes how two agents will communicate with one another. And the first level is basically authentication and authorization to make sure that you are who you really claim to be. And to prevent that, whenever we add agents to a registry, we go through a process called KYA. Know your agent. Similar to KYC and KYB that's already there in the banking world. It's KYA now. Second level of the protocol is vocabulary. So, for instance, if you go to a math class, the conversation is about math. But if you go to a soccer practice,

• 14:07Speaker 00

  the conversation is most likely about soccer, nothing to do with math. So, there are vocabularies in every conversation that happens. So, the same way, we have created an extensible set of vocabularies, but we have given it away as open source in the sense that any company can extend vocabularies. You can build whatever vocabulary you want. So, a canonical example that we have is these agents can not be manifest themselves in the virtual world.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  But they can also manifest themselves in the physical world. For example, a car can be an agent and a parking meter can be an agent. The same car can be an agent with a toll booth or a fast food drive through. But those three vocabularies are different because parking meter only understands parking. And the fast food will only understand, let's say Wendy's fast food, will only understand Wendy's menu and that vocabulary. So these vocabularies will become numerous over time. So that's the crux of our protocol. And I'll segue into something which is kind of interesting because when we approached Google recently,

• 15:18Speaker 00

  after, you know, I saw their VP give a talk at the MIT Media Lab's event in July. And we approached him and said, you know, you guys have introduced A to A, which is after we, you know, came to market. But then we want to go in the spirit of collaboration because there's no use for multiple standards to be in industry. It's better to coalesce towards something that everyone will use, will be beneficial for the whole ecosystem. So we've come together to try to extend A to A. And there are benefits of A to A and then we have certain unique attributes and benefits.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  So we are now working closely with Google and other players in the market for agent payments. And so that's a huge area, but I'll stop there if you have more questions. We'll go into agent payments a bit more.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  So this is a huge piece and, you know, I'm good friends with Yatsu of Anamoka Brands. And I'm good friends with Dan Tapiero, who runs a whole suite of funds called 50T. And he invests billions of dollars. And both of them have been telling me for years that they were really bullish on blockchain because it was the only mechanism. Where AI and AI agents could compensate each other with these microtransactions and fast transactions. And they've been talking about this for years before I really saw it coming into practice. And I remember I asked you a question on our Zoom call, and I asked this question a lot to our potential portfolio companies. I said, I think, I said, Raghu, why do this on the blockchain? I think I said, why screw this up by putting it on the blockchain?

• 17:00Speaker 01

  And you came back with a really powerful answer of why you needed payment rails on the blockchain. And I was wondering if you could tell us why the blockchain is not only important, but maybe it's the only way you can have these agents communicate with each other.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, so for example, there are some new protocols that have come about even since we spoke. It's kind of incredible. So now, first of all, let me cover blockchain. So if you look at the payment rails of the traditional banking system, the settlement time is two days. You're not going to have a car talking to a parking meter, which needs to park now, needs to pay now, and you come back and tell the parking meter, I'll, I'll make sure the money gets to you in two days. That's not going to fly. So you need something which is immediate. And one of the things that afflicted the blockchain space was gas fees. We all have, you know, those in the Web3 world know about these fees.

• 17:59Speaker 00

  They were somewhat expensive, exorbitant at times. And so now there's a new protocol called 4.02, which is on-chain, but the transaction fees is less than, it's like 0.001 cent, something like that. And so this is becoming very popular now. And, and so I, I believe that it will become a primary way in which agents pay other agents. So these microtransactions we are talking about, we are talking about a few cents. You cannot have a gas fee of 10 bucks for something which you're paying few cents for. It makes no sense. So it has to be, you know, really almost negligible. And, and that's what 4.02 does.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  That's an Ethereum protocol?

• 18:41Speaker 00

  I believe so. I believe so. Coinbase is behind it and so on. But the fact remains that blockchain is the only way in which you need to establish these payments. Because it's the only universal way in which agents anywhere in the world can pay. Otherwise, if you look at the banking system, it's, you know, when you go to different countries, they have different, you know, they all sort of somehow have got correspondent banks and get to Swift in some way, shape or form, but it's many layers and a lot of charges. Which is why when, when I, when you send funds, let's say, if you send it over certain crypto

• 19:25Speaker 00

  currencies, it's like a few cents, and then if you send it over a bank, and in the US it's forty-five dollars per transaction regardless of what I'm sending. So it's not even, it's a non-starter. So blockchain is the only way. And then within blockchain, we have to go down to the least expensive way of doing it. And I think it's, it's, these microtransactions are going to be numerous. In fact, they're going to outstrip the number of transactions that we see with humans involved in payments.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Right, right. Okay. And I think you also said on top of that, you know, you're looking at a three percent transaction charge for everything on credit cards and debit cards. So not only is it slow, it's prohibited.

• 20:09Speaker 00

  Yes. So, so what happens is, once you have the, there are three layers there. There's the banks, then there is a sort of a gateway fee, and then you have the providers, which is, it could be your PayPal and other players over there. So all of them take a cut.

• 20:28Speaker 04

  Investment Club. Today, I consider it the best investment that I've ever made. We get four projects presented a week by their associated CEOs. Personally, I'm completely blown away by the quality of these projects, and I know of nowhere else where I would be given this same opportunity. Each week that passes, I feel more appreciative of the fact that I'm a member of this group. The vibe was just tremendous. Everybody's on the same wavelength. We just clicked. Everybody listened to each other, enjoyed their company. It was just magical, magical. Take action. Don't take my word for it. Do diligence you need to do. And I really hope that someday down the road, I see you in the club. It far exceeded expectations, without question.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  You remove the middleman, what is 3% actually goes down to 0.54%. And now I'm seeing that even with this 402, it's even lower than that. It's not even 0.54%, like way lower. So the 0.54% is when you use stable coins. But now I think this 402 even beats stable coins in terms of P1. So it's numerically, I mean mathematically, the only way to do it.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Okay. You mentioned blockchain. Are you working with any of the blockchains? And if so, is it Ethereum? And how does that work right now?

• 21:51Speaker 00

  So right now, we have an agent wallet, the world's first agent wallet, which can be used by the owner of the wallet and his proxy, which is his twin. Or the same thing applies for B2B as well. So this wallet is multi-chain. So we have Bitcoin, all the Ethereum variants and all the Solana variants. And now we're adding AVAX because NASDAQ is going to tokenize all stocks apparently on AVAX.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  So tokenize stocks. So we are starting, and this is a multi-chain wallet. There's a mobile app on iOS and Android that anyone can download. And also, the agent version of it is an API version. It's not visible to the, you know, it's like running behind the scenes.

• 22:39Speaker 00

  And so we also, the registry that we have, we suffer off with Polygon, but we're moving it to Base. Because Base is beginning to be like a major player in that space. And we want to be as mainstream as possible. We don't want to give any reason for anyone to not adopt these technologies because it's too important, kind of a wave that's coming.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think Base is a really smart move. You know, we, look, we, we speak to a lot of startups in Web3 and we fund a lot of startups. And right now, when I talk about where they're going to launch their token, it's almost always Base number one and perhaps Solana number two.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  And what Base gives you is, first of all, an amazing layer two on Ethereum, where you can transact fast and cheaply. But it also potentially gives you access to every Coinbase user and maybe every Coinbase institutional user.

• 23:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  And they're doing a lot of custody for a lot of big entities, including, you know, I think the US government. They do custody right now for their crypto. So, and they're pushing it with their own social network, et cetera. So I think that's really smart. When it comes to agents, you know, we've all heard these great dreams that an agent is going to do all these things for you. But I know we haven't always seen that in practice. And I know you talk to companies like Google and Deloitte and these other big companies that, like you said, are using agents internally. But that's only going to get you so much.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  You're going to try to help them send those agents out into the real world, where things get dicey and dangerous.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Can you talk about some of the challenges that the industry is facing, you know, with that final step, you know, of putting agents out in the wild? And then these businesses, these B2B plays? Because that's where you unlock a lot of value. One of the reasons we decided to invest in Synergetics is that unlike most AI plays in Web3, they're selling the services to the Web3 players. And this is a big mistake people make in crypto, is they build crypto tech for the crypto bros and realize there's no audience and then the company goes nowhere. You know this.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  But when you guys were saying, we're talking to Google, we're talking to these huge institutions, that's what got our attention.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, so I, I concur with that. The issue is this, when I went to the Web3 conferences or when I go to the Web2 conferences, there are almost like two religions at play. The AI guys, and then when I go to the Web3 conferences, there are crypto guys, and both are talking about decentralized AI. And, and, but then they're saying different things. And so we set out to say that, okay, what are the things that will easily see mass adoption? So when you look at decentralized AI, it's made up of three types of AI.

• 25:31Speaker 00

  Decentralized compute, decentralized data and decentralized identity. So when we talk to enterprises, I know for a fact that they don't want decentralized compute and they don't want decentralized data. They're very protective of their data and they want to run it on machines that they control. So decentralized compute and decentralized data doesn't work for them. So we said, okay, we will not endorse or you know go that route. But they are okay with decentralized ID. So if you take any enterprise, any big company, you know, when you look at their workforce, almost I'd say ninety, ninety-five percent of the people in the company work internally. They are working on internal things like finance or marketing or whatnot.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  But then about five percent, the C-level people, the salespeople and some marketing people, they'll have to have outreach with external folks. So same way for agents. What's gonna happen is you're gonna have this sort of bifurcation. You're gonna have agents that work inside the company and will not interact with anything outside and then you're gonna have a few agents which are, which will have contact points with external people. So if I take a finance department, for example, let's say a public company, usually the auditor, it's an external company like Pricewaterhouse or Deloitte or KPMG or whatnot. So there'll be some people in the finance department who will interact with the auditors

• 27:00Speaker 00

  outside and so this, imagine this is an agent on your enterprise side and this is the agent on the other side. So you'll have some interactions. So now there is a sort of an epiphany happening where companies are starting to think, oh yeah, we are using agents internally, but soon they'll have to interface with outside agents. And so I had an opportunity to talk to the Chief AI Officer of Fidelity recently in a conference in a kind of an open setting and I asked him this very question, are you starting to interact with? Agents outside enterprise and he said that's definitely a movement towards that. First of all, they are doing it within their various divisions.

• 27:44Speaker 00

  They almost run these divisions as independent entities and so that's agent, agent communication among the divisions itself. And then soon they'll have communications with agents outside their company. And so that movement is there now. The example I always give is and from a US context. So I can use my driver's license and go to the airport and fly anywhere within the US. But then if I want to go outside the US, for example, I'm here in UK today. I have to carry my passport, right? The same way, think of the internal ID that is used within the enterprise as your driver's license.

• 28:26Speaker 00

  So agents inside the enterprise, they trust each other and they can start to communicate with one another. But then, when you want to talk to agents outside, now you have a trust problem. You need a passport. And so what is that passport? So we started to create this registry where you register these agents and so on. And then MIT's Initiative Nanda that came along that like built this registry of registries and so on. Now, in speaking of consensus, there's a new ERC standard called eight zero zero four. It's called trustless agents. It's exactly what we built, but they have standardized it.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  So now we are speaking to them to participate in eight zero zero four to at least become a reference implementation of it because we have already built it. Where these agents are now, when they say trustless, meaning no agent needs to trust each other. It can look it up in a registry. And and by the fact that you are in that registry means that any two agents can trust one another.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  And so that's what we built is now becoming standardized. And that's a very, very good thing. It's a very healthy thing for the market and also gives you this property of discoverability. So anyone can look up anyone and go in contact and so on. If you don't have that, you have this peering problem that I mentioned earlier. Everyone needs to have these N number of connections to one another a priori, which is. I mean, once you have billions of agents, that's an intractable problem. It's like, you know, you can't do that anymore. So you have to simplify it, and this 8004 is the right step at the right time. And so we are actually glad to be working with the likes of Consensys and Ethereum on that.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  So you're not, you know, out there trying to defend your patent and get people to stop using. You created this agent-Asian protocol, and when other people want to adopt it, you're like, okay, let's welcome this. We want to be the standard. And you know that you just stay ahead of the innovation curve.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  And your business is ahead of the rest on the innovation curve, and you'll grow and reap the rewards just by being on the front lines there.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  Exactly. I mean, we're talking about some really well-established companies.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:45Speaker 00

  We are still a startup, and we need to know our place in the world. And obviously, we have lofty goals. We want to be a unicorn and so on. And every startup should aim for the moon, you know, aim for the stars, sort of thing. But the issue is, we understand these other players, where they are, how much, you know, power they wield, and we have to work, you know, collaboratively with them. And that's the best way to do it. Otherwise, you create these kind of like islands

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  of technology that then, you know, they don't interoperate, and there's a problem. In fact, you know, there are a lot of agents which have already been developed with certain tools like Creo AI, Langchain, Gemini, and so on, all these agents. But the number one problem that they have is they don't talk to one another. And so what we did is, we actually have given away to the ecosystem, something called Agent Wizard, that gives these agents the same properties that our agents natively have: ID, name, wallet, the ability to connect, and all of these. Why we're doing this is because we believe that if...

• 32:01Speaker 00

  People adopt these capabilities over time will benefit either directly or indirectly and using our tools and other things. So that's a better approach. While we cannot tell everyone to switch over, we rather be, you know, like the O blood group. You can, you can accept anything. You can, you know, you don't need to force people to adopt your way of doing things.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  This is the perspective of a multiple time founder talking right now, right? And there's that old adage that first time founders focus on products, second time founders focus on distribution or collaboration. And I know this is like five and six and seven for you when it comes to companies you've started and founded, but it really speaks to your experience because the guy, the young kid starting off is like, no, it's got to be my way and everybody else is copying me. And you're thinking the opposite. You're thinking we want to give these protocols away. We want to be the standard. We want to move things forward. It's a whole different mentality, isn't it?

• 33:04Speaker 00

  Right. I mean, I think, I think we, you know, the, the way to really build market shares, be friends and partners with everyone. And that's our approach. We want to be, you don't be in the middle of the conversation. You got to, you cannot make enemies. You have to collaborate because the space is so broad. It is, it's growing, you know, by the time we have this, end of this interview and this conversation, there'll be two new things that have come up that I have to go and read up. That's how fast it's moving. And so we have this approach of, you know, being very, you know, being woven into the fabric of everything

• 33:49Speaker 00

  that's going on. And I, and I think that's the right approach.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Next big milestones for you, is it about landing those big clients like Google and Deloitte? Is it about really getting into their ecosystem and providing them the service? Or is, is there something else that you look as a major metric to get you to the next level?

• 34:09Speaker 00

  So the main thing is the big players, obviously these, these collaborations with Deloitte, HP, Google and other things are a means to an end. The end customer would be the large enterprises. And they are the ones who need to adopt this technology. And that's on the B to B side. On the B to C side, it's equally exciting. Because I'll just, I'll just throw this out there to you. There are seven billion people, eight, maybe seven, eight billion people on earth today. Do you know how many phone calls we make to each other per year?

• 34:45Speaker 01

  How many?

• 34:47Speaker 00

  Five trillion.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  That's crazy. Five trillion calls between seven or eight billion people.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 34:54Speaker 00

  And, and so, we use that metric. It's kind of interesting metric. Because when we had to come up with the market size of what we are talking about, the enormity of what we are talking about. We went back to MIT Media Lab and we asked, you know, how many, how many agents do you think will, will appear in the market over the next five years? You know what? Their number, their number is one trillion. Okay, seven billion people. I'm just using people as a kind of a example, as like a parallel. Seven billion people, they think one trillion agents, okay? And then we said, okay, let's be a bit more conservative. We'll say hundred billion. Still a big number. You know, it's almost ten times the human population.

• 35:38Speaker 00

  So that's, and then we said, okay, you know, another interesting metric is, how many devices do you have? I mean, I'm talking about developable. I'm not, I know, obviously, there are some poor people in impoverished countries. I'm not talking about them. But in the developed world, let's say, a billion of the people on earth are in the developed world. Let's say, how many, how many devices do you have? I mean, just.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  This would be like a desktop, a laptop, a phone, and other wireless devices?

• 36:07Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  I got an OraRing. I mean, it's a lot. I have a lot of phones, man.

• 36:12Speaker 00

  Lot, lot of phones, lot of TVs.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Ten? Okay, I'm in tech and stuff. I'm probably ten.

• 36:16Speaker 00

  It's a great number. Ten is a good number. So if you just take that, you know, it's already, and only one billion people I'm talking about. The other six, I'm just ignoring for now. That's already ten billion. Devices. Guess what? You know, we are, we are, we are, one of the conversations we're having is with Samsung Research. We are working with their team.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  With Samsung?

• 36:39Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah. And, and one of the things that they have, you know, I think publicly also stated, all these companies, all the appliance companies, whether it's LG or Samsung or whatnot. All of the devices are, you know, right now they are called smart devices, right? They will be agents. All of them are going to be agents. All your cars are going to be agents. You know, I was the CTO for automotive.com. And, um, you know, there's a rumor and, and I think it's true, but Tesla cars have had wallets built in since 2016. That's what a lot of people say. I, I, I cannot confirm or deny that, but, but I do know for a fact that Daimler, for example, introduced a wallet that can be plugged into cars in 2018.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  And so what happens is it's like these cars are going around with these wallets, but no one to talk to. Now the Wendy's drive-through in America is actually AI-powered. It can be an agent. So theoretically, it's not a very distant hop to say that the car, a self-driving car can go through the drive-through.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Get your phone.

• 37:41Speaker 00

  Order Brian burger fries and coke and come back while you are shooting something in the studio. He'll come back to you with the food and you can pick it up. You don't need to call DoorDash. He'll come and pick it up or whatever service there is in the UK. So that's the level of automation we are talking about. It's, uh, so just to, just to state this again, so this 10 billion agents for 1 billion people times 10 is one side of it, but you talk about every car, every parking meter, every toll booth, everything around us is going to become a smart device. In fact, we have already proven it. We have a Jetson Nano, which is a small piece of hardware that Nvidia puts out.

• 38:24Speaker 00

  And we run Nano GPT on it. And so this can be added to any other device. So we are in talks with one of the big, um, we are actually in the, in the middle of, uh, setting up a proof of concept for, um, Carrier Corporation, which is one of the big companies in cold chain, supply chain and refrigeration and so on, and air conditioning for buildings, HVAC company. So one of the things that they are interested in is, um, Possibly, you know, we're still in early preliminary talks, but putting agents within every truck to ensure that the food or the pharmaceutical doesn't get spoiled.

• 39:07Speaker 00

  So that that might seem very like a very simple problem, but it's it's not because what happens is every item that you carry in such a truck has got different temperatures at which it will remain fresh.

• 39:23Speaker 05

  What the London Real Investment Club actually does for you, it gives you the keys to open that door to the inside. Deals in the last three weeks, I've participated in three incredible deals, a layer two Bitcoin protocol, an incredible AI protocol. The deal flow is beyond what I expected. I don't think I've ever seen a model like this that just gives average folks the opportunity to be behind the deals, and that's exactly what we've done. Not only that, you get to hang out with Brian Rose every week, and for me, that was huge because I look at Brian as somebody who's not only an expert in the space and I think is on the leading edge, but just the leading edge of thought with London Real and the work he's doing there. To anyone who's taking a serious look at this, I know it's a big decision.

• 40:07Speaker 05

  It was a big decision for me and my family, and it is one of the best decisions I've ever made. So I wish you all the best and hope you come join us.

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Spoil. Too cold and it gets frozen and brittle and it might spoil. Too warm, it might also be gone. So you have to be very careful. And so they don't only want smart devices, but smart devices that can think quickly and without human intervention. And it's sitting somewhere and this they actually do business throughout the world, China, Mexico, you know, Europe, US. So these vehicles may be anywhere and they want to make sure that there's intelligence in those remote places. And this this idea is not only for one company, like almost every company out there in logistics

• 41:05Speaker 00

  would have to start thinking in this way. So I'm saying this hundred billion agents is not a. Not a big number if you start, you know, thinking a bit broadly.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Right, and the scale just keeps going and going and going. I saw recently the rugby players here in Britain now have smart mouthpieces. And, and they'll actually, a light will go on if the player has received a concussion. Now, apparently, they, they used to have them where you could test afterwards, but now it'll start blinking to where the referee and everybody can see it and they have to pull the player out based on a concussion.

• 41:39Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  And again, it's just yet another introduction of a device that probably needs to be an agent.

• 41:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  And can have all sorts of other things going on and, and there's gonna be, there's gonna be so many. Every human is probably gonna have hundreds.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  It, it's funny you brought up sport because, you know, as I told you, I'm a British soccer fan. So, you know, sometimes players, after they score a goal, they take off their shirt. And then I always see them wearing a kind of a, you know, male, like a bra type of thing, like a, like a, you know, small thing. I didn't know what it was. Every player wears this thing. And then I discovered later on that this has got a tracking device at the back which shows their movement, how much ground they covered in the game, how many passes they made. It covers a lot of things. They're all wearing it inside their jersey.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  And vitals as well.

• 42:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it does everything. And I was like, oh, that's why they're wearing it. I was thinking, is it a sports thing that these guys wear this thing? It's not. It's a tracking device. And then I noticed the back, just behind their neck, there's a kind of a sensor. And it's kind of strange. So it's interesting that you mentioned concussion protocol, but, but they're already doing a lot of sports science. Almost every team, a professional team now has got a sports science department that analyzes player movement, where they, you know, how much ground they're covering, how many passes, how many headers, how many this and that. So, so interesting that you mentioned.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  And in the NFL, they're all mic'd up now, and now with the various subscriptions, you can go listen to what this guy's saying and this guy's saying and this guy's saying, and you'll be able to track that. So, yeah, the future is gonna be filled with agents. And I want to ask you a question. You know, you're You're an MIT Sloan School professor.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  No, I'm a head learning instructor.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Okay, head learning instructor. I mean, you spent a lot of time at the institute. Now, I spent four years of my life there, from 1989 to 1993. And I knew at the time how special that place was. But as I get older and older, I value that experience even more. There's something about MIT that is just, it's different than any other place in the world. And I still remember, even when I was a punk kid and I was getting a little cynical about school in my junior and senior year, when I would walk into Lobby 7 on 233 Mass Ave and I would look down the infinite corridor and I'd walk by all these Nobel Prize winners. And when I would go study at 3:00 in the morning in one of those rooms, I just knew I was in a special place.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  And you've obviously spent time there and you continue to go back there. And I know you've met the Google people there and a bunch of other different pieces. What's it like being associated with that institution? And then going there regularly and be able to meet with all the people that come there? How are your interactions different at MIT, at the Sloan School, than they would maybe in any place else?

• 44:37Speaker 00

  So I think when you go to institutions like MIT, what happens is, first of all, I don't go there with a sort of a commercial mindset. I go there with a sort of academic learning research mindset. And it is, to me, it's very nourishing. Because I, you know, every time I visit these events or conferences or get togethers,

• 45:09Speaker 00

  like what Steve Jobs used to say, I get a lot of dots and I get a lot of ideas. But then they don't connect at that time. And then maybe days later, weeks later, months later, even years later, they'll start to connect by themselves or through some, maybe I'm sitting next to a person in the airplane or something like that. I have a conversation and like, ah, okay, let's put that dot together. So when you get these really bright minds together in a room, it's just incredible what happens. Because that starts to then almost...

• 45:50Speaker 00

  Sort of sprout or germinate into various branches of ideas that you then connect later on. And you also get to know what other people are thinking about, where they are going, what they are doing. And in fact, um, uh, three research papers recently were published. Uh, that I had the privilege and honor of being able to be one of the co-authors. Uh, for Agentic AI with some of the researchers at MIT. Also, there were external participants from, um, I believe Salesforce, Cisco, Carnegie Mellon and so on. So it's really interesting to collaborate and we have these working groups.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  Uh, that we throw around ideas about how this sort of uh, space will start to evolve. And I think, um, if you don't uh, open yourself up to these inputs, you're actually losing out. So, so I think, and also these events are, you know, surprisingly either inexpensive or free. You know, anyone can watch these things even online. Um, so I'd encourage anyone to, you know, whenever these things come up. Uh, it's nanda.mit.edu, which is the Internet of AI Agents. And uh, it'll be interesting because all of us are going to experience bits and pieces of this in the coming years.

• 47:18Speaker 00

  Uh, I would encourage everyone to sort of at least follow at a cursory level what's going on.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Must be nice to take off your commercial hat a little while and go into kind of a research and ideas exploration hat. And then go back to your commercial hat.

• 47:32Speaker 00

  Implement it.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and implement it, right?

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, so one of the things that I, I actually take pride in is actually not just, just talk the talk or even write the papers. But actually try to find real world use cases immediately because the, there's something about industry. Which is a very good, uh, because you can write anything you want in academia. But only when you implement it, you'll come across. The economic barriers, you know, there's a lot of things in science that you can say on paper, you can do it, but in reality, it's too expensive. So it is a good sort of a teacher to teach you like, okay, you know, this is good theoretically, but really practically not going to fly.

• 48:17Speaker 00

  So when you start to implement, then you might tweak it, you might say, okay, version one of it might only go this far. And so it gives a different sort of way to bring it to market and a different skill set needed.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and very important. And then you've got to sell that thing and see if anybody actually uses that and then see if it can make money.

• 48:38Speaker 00

  Right.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  That's a whole nother world.

• 48:39Speaker 00

  That's a whole nother world, absolutely.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  One of the reasons I was drawn to engineering at MIT is because I think I always liked that practical side. And so, you know, I had friends of mine that were physics majors and other majors, but man, when you're an engineer, there was a famous course at MIT called 270, where you, they give you a box full of wheels and gears and motors and you have to build something that's going to fight with another student's project and it's all public and they've been streaming it live even since I was there. And you literally battle these robots out and you have control over them. And so they're probably implementing AI technology now. And so it was a real difference between, okay, you learn about how these things work, but then when you have to put it into practice, you realize that a lot of that goes out the window.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  That that thing is now evolved into these swarm bots.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Okay, gotcha.

• 49:29Speaker 00

  Intelligent swarm bots and these actually, these swarm bots collaborate with one another to solve a problem.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  That's the next level, right? That's the next level. Uh, yeah, that's the whole level. Um, tell me about what your next 12 months looks like for you. What is your single biggest challenge now, you know, uh, running synergetics? What are the big milestones? You're obviously talking to a lot of the big players. They're obviously recognizing that they need this agent to agent protocol, but what are the next big things you have to solve?

• 50:01Speaker 00

  So first, uh, what we've done is grow from inside out. So when I see that we're working in the large companies to implement agents at scale. So if you look at just really fast, the first couple of years, companies have started to experiment with agents, but they've all been the singular agents, that is agents operating on its, on their own. And that's quite trivial, actually. Now, a lot of them are gravitating towards multi-agent systems. That is agents collaborating with one another or collaborating with humans. That's more the type of thing that happens in companies daily. Now, the next step is to, a lot of it is education.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  We have to educate these enterprises to move towards agents communicating across enterprise boundaries. And like I said, the eight zero zero four standard and other industries sort of like infrastructure being in place enables that transition to happen. So that's sort of the evolution that we are part of currently with customers on the sales side. As far as immediate priorities right now, this, actually right now, this quarter, we are talking about Q four. We are actively in discussions, a lot of companies, because I was a C level at many companies prior to this. And this is the time where they set up the budgets for the next year.

• 51:25Speaker 00

  So, and companies set up budgets in two ways. One is like earmarked line item budgets and then discretionary budgets. So we want to get into those earmarked budgets because that will almost guarantee you revenues for next year. And in business, revenues are the lifeblood, so we want to get into those line items. So that's what we are really focused on in the very immediate short term. The second thing that we also, you know, planning to launch a token and things like that when, you know, in discussions and moving that along, probably with the eye towards seeing something next year. And that's, that's got its own sort of like trajectory there.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  And then fundraising on the equity side and things like that that are going on to help strengthen the company's, you know, balance sheet and funding and so on. Because stability is important in the sales cycle as well. Apart from that, we also keeping an eye on a lot of technology. Changes and you know our roadmap items. So, one of the areas that we are really focused on is building out a marketplace. So, marketplace is where the the four big constituencies in the Asian economy come together. The one is enterprise, creators, community and consumers.

• 52:49Speaker 00

  So, all of them coalesce in that marketplace similar to let's say a Amazon marketplace. So, the enterprises are coming there to either rent agents that are pre-built or to hire community members for testing agents and any AI related tasks. The creators are there creating models, selling data, selling pre-created agents. So, there are a number of elements that they can sell or selling skills. So, for example, a consumer might say, I need a skill for my digital twin to be able to book travel. But then you are not a developer, let's say, you just want to buy that skill.

• 53:32Speaker 00

  Similar to to watching a movie on Netflix or or or buying or renting a movie on Amazon Prime. You can rent a movie, so you rent a skill. So, that skill might have been developed by someone who knows the travel industry well, who has built all the APIs into all the major airlines and travel sites and so on. They put the skill out there, you come in and you rent that skill. Maybe a couple of bucks a month or whatnot. And then you can now have your agent go book travel and and so things like that. So, these are the ecosystem comprised of these four entities and we are actively launching the marketplace.

• 54:14Speaker 00

  That's going to be almost the center point, the focal point of every everyone coming together to transact. And that's the use of the token and things like that come into play. So, so that's that's the primary thing that we are focused on. Hopefully, I'd say end of this quarter or early next quarter, we'll launch that.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  And why is a token necessary? And then, once you generate that token, what will be the utility of that token?

• 54:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, many, many types of use cases, a utility token, so many, many types of use cases. First of all, I think, especially for the creators, they can earn. We want to create an ecosystem where not only people spend, but they also earn. So this is a great way to earn, you know, make a, make a living. Actually, a lot of people ask me, like, isn't AI going to replace jobs? But AI is going to create jobs. And where is it going to create jobs? In marketplaces. Like, you know, before YouTube became a big thing, right? Let's say around the early 2000s. There was no such a job as YouTube content creator.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:27Speaker 00

  But there are a lot of people who make a living on YouTube. That their, their, their income is making content. And they earn through, through creating content. Same thing for Instagram, same thing for a lot of other reels and TikTok and things like that. So now, this agent economy is going to create a lot of new jobs. And for that economy to function in a rational manner, we need a token. And that token will incentivize all of the players to, to participate and so on. So we believe it's a huge economy. And also, I have not even covered, we are talking about agents in the sort of virtual world primarily, but all the people who, who are, we call makers.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  I don't know whether you know the maker ecosystem where people use, like, like your bots, you mentioned at MIT?

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:17Speaker 00

  They can create all kinds of devices, medical devices, or, you know, drones. So all of those things will become agents. So now, that community can participate in this. And so there's a lot of use cases that, that will derive a benefit. There's one other thing called a Launchpad, which is part of the tokenomics. The Launchpad is where third parties who want to launch their own token business can launch it on top of this.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:47Speaker 00

  So that, that's another big one.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  Right, so you empower them to have their own token?

• 56:51Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  And they use that in their own AI agent ecosystem?

• 56:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  And it's paired with your token?

• 56:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, and also we give them all the tools. They use all the tools that we have. And so that they don't need to be spending the time building all this plumbing.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the virtuals marketplace was very ahead of the curve when it came to pairing their token with a bunch of other people's tokens. And it gave a huge injection of liquidity that was very needed. Because if you try to create your own separate agent with your own token, you're never going to be able to get the liquidity needed.

• 57:23Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  So it's an important part of your ecosystem.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  So that's the same way, like if you go back to Amazon, right? You can create your own website, or you can be a seller on Amazon.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:32Speaker 00

  So which one gets more traffic?

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:35Speaker 00

  It's Amazon. So that's the same argument.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  This is the other indication of a multiple-time founder. I think, because you're already thinking about the marketplace. You're not just thinking, "Build it and they will come." You're thinking, "I have to collaborate and I have to create a marketplace where there's buyers and sellers. There's creators of the agents and users of the agents. And make sure it's seamless, like the App Store or the Amazon marketplace."

• 57:58Speaker 00

  Right.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  And you're already thinking that's the way to grow. And that's also the way to make sure the technology gets standardized as well.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, the other thing that I failed to mention, all of these artifacts that are sold in the marketplace, they're actually NFTs. So NFT is the beautiful thing that people lost in the first sort of iteration of NFTs, whether it's CryptoKitties or all these art, digital art and so on, is NFTs are a great packaging mechanism. You can take anything and package it as an NFT. So now the benefit of having all these artifacts, AI artifacts in the form of NFTs, guess what? All of the existing marketplace places also become fair game.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  Your Rarible, your OpenSea, all of those marketplaces are now alienated. They can now participate in Asian economy. So that's also, we are not saying that our marketplace is the only marketplace.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  So the benefit is you create, using our tools, you can place it in multiple marketplaces with an NFT.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  Again, that's thinking about distribution as opposed to your own walled garden.

• 59:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  Okay, so you could have an AI agent, it's an NFT, it can trade anywhere.

• 59:17Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Okay, wow. How is the crypto market feel for you? And how will that matter over the next 12 to 18 months? You're based in San Francisco.

• 59:28Speaker 00

  In LA.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  In LA, okay. And how different does it feel from, say, 12 months ago? How do you get out of a rat race? How do you create wealth not only for yourself, but also for the generations to come after? I am absolutely amazed with the quality of companies that we're getting exposure to.

• 59:46Speaker 06

  We go on to Zoom calls with the innovators and the folks who are building new applications in metaverse, blockchain, artificial intelligence, decentralized finance. What's going on, everybody? Thumbs up if you can see me. We are focusing on early-stage investment. And the quality of people that we're getting exposure to, whether it be Dan Tapia with

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  1RT, Jason Ma from Open, Ayatsu from Anamoka. It's been a phenomenal experience thus far. It has far exceeded my expectations.

• 1:00:16Speaker 06

  We are focusing on cutting-edge technologies. I view it now as the best investment I have ever made. The upside I view is unlimited.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  And as a retail investor, I would never get this exposure anywhere else outside of Investment Club. See you in the Investment Club.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Because it's obviously regulation and adoption, and now we have a president that talks about crypto pretty much every other day. What's it been like for you? And are you super bullish over the next 18 to 24 months?

• 1:00:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, actually, I think every Web3 native person has been waiting for this day. I mean, it's been refreshing. We've all waited very patiently for almost, I'd say, almost 10 years, 12 years in some cases. And where everywhere you went, there's a roadblock. And one had to set up sort of foundations in.

• 1:01:12Speaker 00

  Small island republics in order to find legitimacy. It's just you don't. I I believe soon there'll be a day where companies could launch, you know, things within America itself and not be, you know, subjected to all kinds of scrutiny or legal ramifications. Um, so I think it's become mainstream. Almost all the banks are using it almost as a big movement by Amazon, Google, Fidelity, Walmart. Everyone is getting onto the bandwagon of either use of blockchain, use of stable coins. So it's become mainstream and and that's a big boon. I think that that really makes things very, very interesting.

• 1:01:57Speaker 00

  And now I think we can start innovating. And the big innovation that I see that's going to happen is actually this is the original innovation, but never took off, which is the whole idea of cryptocurrency that people are using it for swapping, staking and and, you know, uh, and speculation. But it's actually supposed to be programmable money. So now you can start to make your cryptocurrency programmable money in the sense that you can start to put in logic to say, so for example, if you have a transaction between two parties and let's say that the salesperson who sold this particular asset to this one,

• 1:02:41Speaker 00

  this other person, he gets a 10% commission. So when this person pays hundred dollars, the smart contract itself will immediately kick a 10% commission this way and put 90% back to the wallet of the company that sold it. So that's programmable money. You don't need to wait for things to happen or whether it be paying fees or taxes or this or that. All of those rules are built into the protocol. So that's, that's why I see a lot of innovation that will happen now. Now that people are now, okay, it's, it's accepted. We're all good. Now let's start to innovate and and we see tremendous opportunity in all of that.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, not only you could program your money, but also give it agency. Right, so it's programmable money, but also in a situation, make the decision that my digital twin would make.

• 1:03:32Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Decision I would make.

• 1:03:34Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Based on my history.

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's powerful. Because you're right, we have programmable money on, you know, in smart contracts, but nobody really uses programmable money.

• 1:03:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  As a person. I don't say, guess what, make this transaction this way, based on this, this, this, and this.

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  And imagine how it would change my life if I just did that.

• 1:03:52Speaker 00

  That's a lot. I have actually a book. It's so funny, my daughter took this class at UCLA on, um. I just, I didn't think of it at that time as being a class on programmable money, but it was something to do with, it's a whole book of all the ways in which money is used. Interest rates, bonds, payments for all types of things. So there are about hundred different formulas that I have on just how to program money. And I said, okay, I'm gonna keep this book because I was helping her with, you know, how, teaching her on homework and other things. And then when I looked at it, I said, this is a blueprint for what blockchain is, you know, crypto is gonna go. The next, whenever it's ready to go, this, this is what is gonna happen next, so.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  Excellent. You've had four, four exits. What keeps you excited? What keeps you building? You know, why do you still get out of bed excited to build this new piece of infrastructure? What are the things that you're looking forward to?

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  I mean, I'll be very transparent. So my four exits, I would say in a baseball sort of parlance, it's, um, have been singles and doubles. So I'm looking for a grand slam home run. I know that's, that keeps me going. But outside of that, I mean, I've been, you know, growing up in Singapore, my first computer was Apple II. And actually, I, I went to a computer class and I took, I was using the TRS-ED. I don't know. That's a very old computer. So I've been coding since then and I'm just passionate about the field. So a lot of my friends who even took computer science and so on.

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  They say, you know, you're still at it. I'm like, yeah, I'm still at it. You guys gave up a long time ago, like, you know, one or two generations of technologies ago. And I'm still at it because I'm, you know, everyone wants to make money and so on. That's part of it. But that's a mean to an end for me. For me, it's about, I want to be in on the next new thing, you know, and I'm. Money will come and, and, but let's focus on what's, what's cool and let's go and do that. And that's what keeps me driven and I, you know, in that sense, I'm ageless because I like to learn new things. And I've, honestly, I think I've reinvented myself like five times over.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, you're in the most cutting edge technology out there. I mean, you're on the blockchain. You're in the AI space and you're in the agentic space.

• 1:06:28Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  And for B to B, I mean, that is on the cutting edge.

• 1:06:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  And it's a great way to stay young because you're surrounded by smart people, great ideas. It's a super high velocity. It's, it's riskier, but you can also build the most incredible technology.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, those who don't see it, sometimes we are so in it. We're reading so much about it, but if we step back, like I said earlier, it's like AI is like electricity. When you're like in the early, whatever, late eighteen hundreds or early nineteen hundreds. If someone knew that, oh, you know what, when electricity is invented, let me go and make the bulb or let me go and make the next thing that can use that. People have to think and then those took years. Now it takes days or weeks. So you've got to think like, you have to step back and say, you know what, what's going on? Oh, wow, AI has happened and, and what has really happened?

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  You know, we have had computer programs that humans had to code and for computers to understand. Now just imagine computers can understand natural language. You can talk to it.

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

  It can then interpret what you said and start to even think. So that's a big deal. We, you know, I I'm just pausing for a second because we have to step back and see what what just happened here. I don't no longer need to code to tell this thing something. It can understand what I'm saying in real time and then start to do things. So that's a big movement from taking some programming language and coding for weeks and putting it out there. So now if you take that by itself and then start to think, okay, I can extrapolate from here to all these other things. And I think that's where I think sometimes we are so deep into it that we miss the big picture.

• 1:08:21Speaker 00

  And if you look at history, whenever there's been some key innovation, a lot of people made a lot of money. But the ones who made money are the ones who could see like that that inflection point and then say, wow, that really happened. Now let me try to connect the dots. And that's why I see this as, okay, AI is great and then generative AI is really good. And then now what can you do with agents? And then you can go, you know, you can just like, you know, go like 10x from here, 100x from here.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Right, you're a couple of moves ahead now and you see all this space out in front of you. Does it bother you as a guy who who put in the hard yards as a programmer to see these young kids vibe coding?

• 1:09:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I think I've actually, I have to admit, I've tried it myself. The funny thing that I don't know if there are enough articles on this, this, the code that's generated, it's good as a framework. But when it comes to really having it production quality, I think we are still some ways off. And I've had to debug a lot of the code it generates. So I think we are a bit off, but also I I fear one thing, that is, in coding, there is some science and there's some art.

• 1:09:42Speaker 00

  You know elegance in coding is very important and how it's structured, how it's readable and usable and so on. I think that I'm just afraid it will become a lost art and we should not.

• 1:09:55Speaker 04

  Investment Club. Today I considered the best investment that I've ever made. We get four projects presented a week by their associated CEOs. Personally, I'm completely blown away by the quality of these projects and I know of nowhere else where I would be given this same opportunity. Each weekday passes, I feel more appreciative fact that I'm a member of this group. The vibe was just tremendous. Everybody's on the same wavelength. We just clicked. Everybody listened to each other, enjoyed their company. It was just magical, magical. Take action. Don't take my word for it. Do Dylan's you need to do. And I really hope that someday down the road I see you in the club. It far exceeded expectations without question.

• 1:10:42Speaker 00

  Have that happen.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that can happen in any time where you start relying on a machine.

• 1:10:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  And that's something to.

• 1:10:50Speaker 00

  The debugging skill is very important because when you, if you ask any good developer, they'll say, you know, when I debug, when I coded and even now I code, when you debug, you are thinking like the compiler, you are thinking how the machine think? Then only you can debug properly. If not, you don't know how to debug, then you, the vibe coding might take you down a pathway. You're just trying various things randomly without really understanding what's going on. So I think, I hope those listening don't still maintain their, you know, debugging skills. It's very important.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  I think there's always going to be a place for the purists. And again, right now, you know, you can go and generate an image or a short film on these pieces, but. If you spent 10 years learning the art of filmmaking, you're ultimately gonna see it different and you're gonna be able to ultimately provide value and maybe create something that's compelling because you've studied it so much.

• 1:11:48Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  That you know the, all the little details. You know, there's that great movie called Yoro Dreams of Sushi about this guy who makes sushi in Tokyo. And the whole family's there and one of the brothers, he made rice for 15 years. That was his only job. And until you make rice for 15 years, you don't get to touch the fish. Right? And so he knows everything about rice and you think, well, I mean, how long does it take to learn how to boil rice? But he does. And so he knows it better than anybody else knows it and knows all the details of it and can master it in a way that somebody new can't. So I do think there'll always be a place for these people that really know their fields as a master, you know, to add and to make these things better.

• 1:12:31Speaker 00

  I think, I hope that whether it be in the movie, making a field or whether it's coding or anything else, that it's a sort of a human and machine collaboration. That there are pieces we can use machines to accelerate the movie making process, for instance. And then there are things that is still left in the hands of humans to kind of have that craftsmanship around it. I think that mix is where the happy median is.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Right. And that's really kind of using an agent effectively, right? You're using an agent as a tool to help you achieve something.

• 1:13:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  Look, this is super powerful. You know, when I explain this to our, our group, you know, of investors, I always say to them, look, right now you might have a travel agent and they book your travel and you might have a personal trainer and they help you train. But I said, in the future, you're gonna have all of these agents and they're gonna work together.

• 1:13:28Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  So not only are you gonna have these individual things that help you accomplish tasks, but now they're gonna work together and create a whole brand new ecosystem and ideas and things you could never imagine.

• 1:13:38Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:13:39Speaker 01

  And that's why I'm, that's the way I kind of describe what you're doing with Synergetics. It's something we can't even imagine, but it's a way to scale. everything that we do here to the next level, but it has to be based on correct protocols.

• 1:13:52Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  All of these these ways to make sure it's done correctly and that's looks like what you're building.

• 1:13:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, so a lot of security also goes into it.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  And and so we have really taken a lot of pain to ensure that the secure communication, secure storage, the secure environments, even the agents that we build run on a secure execution environment like a container. So that it cannot be infected by malware and you know, the first thing you know is some guy, some nefarious guy is going to try to attack the agent and make it into a a bad agent, a rogue agent. So so to avoid that. So we have taken about about seven different initiatives. And this is one of the sort of like tests that we were put through by our partners at HP, HPE actually, HP for enterprises.

• 1:14:43Speaker 00

  And they really put us through the wringer in terms of like testing us like, what do you do? What do you do here? What do you do there? And and I like it. Actually, they are very, very good partner. And and helped us improve and that's what partners should do.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:58Speaker 00

  Um, you know, help us improve and work with us collaboratively. And and so the end product is better, but but security is going to be very important. Uh, the cyber security and now you're talking about AI security, which is another another layer on top of that.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, so very, very important.

• 1:15:18Speaker 00

  Very important.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  For people that are listening to us right now or watching us, how can they start using your technology? How can they embrace it, test it? And find out what you're doing and also what you're doing coming in the future? Token launch, etc. What's the best way to learn more about what you're doing at Synergium?

• 1:15:37Speaker 00

  So a few few ways. One is we are quite active on LinkedIn. X, we are still a little bit, you know, on the slow side, we have to get more stuff there. But the other way is, we conduct a lot of webinars, so that it's like informational sessions, that's another way to get involved. Also, visit our website, we put out a lot of content, blogs, stuff like that.

• 1:16:03Speaker 00

  And then you can also email us to, because we have a sandbox. And so for those who want to test it, the sandbox, you can come to our website and sign up. There's a free trial for some of the tools, you can play with them and test them and use them and so on. And then after the trial period, there's a sort of a upgrade path to something paid. But I think these are important tools to have for enterprises and so do come and test out our sandbox. Love to hear the feedback as well to help us improve. And then I'm also on LinkedIn, you can always reach out to me.

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  And I'm guessing if you're watching us right now and you belong to a small or even a medium or a large size enterprise, I'm guessing the time to start thinking about AI agents is yesterday, right? Because your competitors are going to do this and this tech is going to scale so fast that you're going to be out of business, I would guess, if you haven't been the one that adopts this.

• 1:17:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it's getting to that point because every company has sort of moved from a human-centric workforce to a hybrid workforce made up of humans and agents. And that is not going to change, that train has left the station. Now it's a question of whether you can catch up or not. And the ability of these enterprises to scale and have a competitive advantage over those who are still in the old world is going to be, it's not even like a little, not 10%, 20%, you're talking about 10x. In terms of speed, faster time to market, faster product, better customer service, lower cost.

• 1:17:44Speaker 00

  So it's going to be top line changes, bottom line changes and so on. It's going to be significant. And so the investment in capex and so on has to happen now. It's almost, I'm not saying this, I listen to CNBC and other, other sort of channels and that's what's happening everywhere. And, and I think for good reason, because the productivity improvements are significant. It's like, what is that steam turbine to electric kind of movement is almost the same type of thing happening here.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  Right, it's happening very fast.

• 1:18:25Speaker 00

  Very fast.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Right. And the ones that get in are going to have that quick development and the ones that are even a few months late could miss out everything.

• 1:18:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, because this, you know, there used to be this Moore's law, it used to be what, a year and a half.

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, eighteen months.

• 1:18:41Speaker 00

  Eighteen months it doubles. I think, and maybe for C-shoot and things, it looks like eighteen weeks now.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  You might be right. So almost like the, the, the AI improvement almost doubles every eighteen weeks.

• 1:18:56Speaker 00

  Something like that.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  Which is like four and a half months.

• 1:18:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's very fast. I mean, I, I don't think I'm far off.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  I don't think you are either.

• 1:19:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's very fast. So, so yeah.

• 1:19:06Speaker 01

  So get in, start adopting this, play in your sandbox, start having the conversations, because this applies to every single business out there and every single individual.

• 1:19:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, we have customers who are smaller customers, the midsize and larger customers are making those, those investments right now.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:24Speaker 00

  And, and I think it's improved results tremendously. One of our clients actually in the healthcare space takes about, used to take about four hours to do data entry of medical records, now it takes ten minutes. I mean, like. It's mind blowing. I mean, I can't even, you can't even compare.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's not a 10% improvement. Like you said, it's like a 10x improvement. Yeah, which just the human mind can't even comprehend. And so you're going to show up one day and yeah, that business isn't going to be there anymore. And it'll be too late to do something about it.

• 1:19:58Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  Raghu really enjoyed this conversation and it's been really exciting to get to see what you're doing. Our whole team is super passionate about Synergetics. We have been from the start. You have that je ne sais quoi about you, you know, all these different aspects of your personality and your education and your background that just, in my opinion, scream winner. And so we're really pumped to be with you for the lifelong of this project and to continue to support you with media, excited about the Token Generation event and beyond. And it's, it just makes me really bullish on this whole industry. So thank you so much for the time.

• 1:20:34Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  And looking forward to all the next steps and from here it's to the moon, I think.

• 1:20:39Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you so much.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  All right. Thanks so much.

• 1:20:41Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

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