Endgame with Gov. Gretchen Whitmer

Big Gretch is here to chat with Chelsea about the state of the Union, what she’s doing to inspire more women to run for office, and the healing power of Dexter Morgan. Then: A queer Aunt becomes estranged from her nephew after a drag brunch gone wrong. * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees. This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all. Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chelsea Handler?

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• 0:44Chelsea Handler?

  Check out wonderfulpistachios.com to learn more. Season four of Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is here, everybody. This year, hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson-Rosso are unzipping the truth, challenging stereotypes, celebrating sex positivity, and keeping things delightfully unfiltered. Tune in for jaw-dropping hilarious and insightful chats with some of the boldest voices in the queer community and dive deep into the history of cruising queer scenes from Atlanta to Puerto Rico, how OnlyFans is reshaping adult content, and so much more. Feeling curious? Maybe a little bold? Just push play.

• 1:28Chelsea Handler?

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• 3:34Chelsea Handler?

  Okay, High and Mighty Tour, guys, is continuing, so please come and see me in San Francisco November 7th. And November 13th is Salt Lake. November 20th is Austin, then Houston, and then Irving. November 20th, November 21st, and November 22nd, I will be touring Texas. December 5th is Denver. December 6th in Vancouver, Canada. I have two shows that night. There are tickets available for the second show. Two dates in Jersey City at the Lowe's Theater, December 12th. I'm shooting my Netflix special, my next Netflix special. Then I'm going to Palm Beach, Florida, December 16th by popular demand. Then Hollywood, Florida, December 17th.

• 4:16Chelsea Handler?

  And then two shows in Tampa, Florida on December 18th. So I will see you guys on the road. Come and see the High and Mighty Tour. I'll give you some LSD.

• 4:29Chelsea Handler?

  Hi, Catherine.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  Hi, Chelsea.

• 4:31Chelsea Handler?

  This is Chelsea Handjob. Hello, how are you?

• 4:34Speaker 05

  Oh, excellent. Nice to see your face, your shining face this morning.

• 4:38Chelsea Handler?

  Thank you. Thank you for calling it shiny. I appreciate that. I'm going to take that as moisturize.

• 4:46Chelsea Handler?

  Going to take that as a compliment. I'm going to, I'm very excited. I'm going to see that documentary that everyone is talking about.

• 4:53Speaker 05

  I was gonna ask you, have you seen You Can See Everything?

• 4:57Chelsea Handler?

  I'm going to a noon showing. I love a daytime movie. I haven't been to the theater in so many months that I'm going with a big group of people, too.

• 5:04Speaker 05

  Good, good. That's the way to see it, like crowded theater, big group of people. It is, nobody who is going to see it, look up anything about it, just go.

• 5:14Chelsea Handler?

  I already have heard too much about it, so I'm just like, okay.

• 5:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, just go.

• 5:18Chelsea Handler?

  So it's like, I know it's gonna be like, I know, yeah. I mean, I don't know what to expect, but I'm excited. Anyway.

• 5:24Speaker 05

  It's just, you've never seen anything like it. And by that, I even just mean Elizabeth Holmes.

• 5:31Chelsea Handler?

  I mean, she's really, I watched The Dropout just to refresh my memory with Amanda. And I was like, oh, I'm like, this woman is so hard to watch. And that's with one of my favorite actresses playing her, so I can't even imagine what she must be like to watch.

• 5:45Speaker 05

  And are you familiar with Nathan Fielder at all? Like, are you?

• 5:49Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 05

  Right. So it's like, it's interesting to think about, like, a bunch of boomers who might not know who he is going to see this story and like, having their first Nathan Fielder experience with this movie, you know? It's, it's really fascinating, highly recommend.

• 6:04Chelsea Handler?

  Yes.

• 6:05Speaker 05

  Well, let me know what you think afterward. We also went to a daytime showing, and it was the right choice. It was the right choice.

• 6:11Chelsea Handler?

  Awesome.

• 6:12Speaker 05

  Because you just wanna think about it all day.

• 6:13Chelsea Handler?

  I just want to remind everyone, I'm filming my special on December 12th in New Jersey, Jersey City at the Lowe's Theater. The first show has sold out. There are still tickets for the second show, but it is almost sold out as well. So if you want to come see me record my special, come. And I'm also coming to Irving, Texas, Houston, Texas, and Austin, Texas, everybody, in November. So get your tickets for that. I started a new good book. It's called This Is Not About Us by Allegra Goodman. My editor sent it to me, so that's a good book. I'll report back on that front.

• 6:44Speaker 05

  Awesome.

• 6:45Chelsea Handler?

  We have an election coming up, people, so we have a political guest today who everyone's gonna really enjoy. She is the 49th governor of Michigan, author of True Gretch: What I've Learned About Life, Leadership, and Everything in Between. And she's a menace to the President of the United States, which of course I love. Please welcome Governor Gretchen Whitmer, AKA Big Gret. Your skin looks so luminous, lady. Lady Governor, you look very luminous.

• 7:14Speaker 05

  That's very kind of you.

• 7:15Chelsea Handler?

  Yes. Welcome to Dear Chelsea.

• 7:17Speaker 05

  I'm glad to be here.

• 7:18Chelsea Handler?

  I'm very excited to talk to you. I don't even know where to begin. Oh, I do know where we're gonna begin.

• 7:23Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 7:23Chelsea Handler?

  We're gonna talk about, you have a dog named Doug. And I also have a king named Doug, who is my dog.

• 7:31Speaker 05

  How is this possible?

• 7:32Chelsea Handler?

  And what is your other dog's name?

• 7:34Speaker 05

  Kevin.

• 7:34Chelsea Handler?

  Kevin.

• 7:36Speaker 05

  Those are normal names for dogs. How did Doug, your dog, get his name?

• 7:40Chelsea Handler?

  Doug, because I'm like you, I like real names for dogs. Like, I want human names for dogs.

• 7:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:45Chelsea Handler?

  I am a chow person. That is my type of dog.

• 7:48Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 7:48Chelsea Handler?

  Just like we have types in other areas of our lives.

• 7:51Speaker 05

  Indeed.

• 7:52Chelsea Handler?

  We have dog types. So I always go to this California chow rescue. And then when I'm running low on dogs, if one seems to be in the sunset of their life.

• 8:03Speaker 05

  The tank is getting empty, yeah?

• 8:05Chelsea Handler?

  Once the tank is, once I see that there, you know, it's happening, I go re-up immediately. I get another one because I've gotta fill the space. I don't, I don't, I like to transfer the love.

• 8:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, I hear you.

• 8:16Chelsea Handler?

  I don't, I don't wanna be mourning a dog. You know what I mean?

• 8:19Speaker 05

  I don't think I'll ever not be a dog person now that I have my two boys.

• 8:23Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah. But so I've always, I had Bert, Bernice, Tammy, Chunk was an exception because I named him after him.

• 8:29Speaker 05

  So you're going through the alphabet?

• 8:30Chelsea Handler?

  Not really. It took a hurricane. It's basically how they do the hurricanes. I go through, no. So I just added to my family, though. I have Doug, and now I have Denise.

• 8:40Speaker 05

  Oh, see, you are working through the alphabet.

• 8:43Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 05

  Elizabeth and Elroy are next.

• 8:46Chelsea Handler?

  And I guess you feel the same way about.

• 8:48Speaker 05

  I do. Well, I let my kids name my dogs. So Kevin, they couldn't, they wanted to name a dog after one of the characters on The Office, and the only one they could agree on was Kevin. And I'm like, he's so weird, but okay. And then we got Doug, because during COVID, Kevin was like my shadow. And I'm like, I gotta get this dog a dog, because one day I'm gonna leave this house again.

• 9:08Chelsea Handler?

  I gotta get this dog a dog. That's exactly my thinking.

• 9:11Speaker 05

  We got, we got a second dog, and my kids were into 21 Jump Street at the time. So Doug's name is actually Doug McQuade Whitmer.

• 9:19Chelsea Handler?

  Wow, that is a serious name. Sounds like a politician.

• 9:22Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, he's, he's got the temperament to be a politician.

• 9:26Chelsea Handler?

  And what about your other dog, Kevin?

• 9:28Speaker 05

  He could never be a politician. He's too wound up.

• 9:31Chelsea Handler?

  You could, I like to think of you naming your dog Kevin after Kevin Hart, because that's the kind of person who deserves to have a dog named after him. I know him personally, and I can vouch for that.

• 9:41Speaker 05

  I love that.

• 9:42Chelsea Handler?

  I think you're a fan of Kevin Hart because you picked up one of his catchphrases.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  I am.

• 9:46Chelsea Handler?

  What was it? What was it on Shark Tank? It's Shark Week, motherfucker?

• 9:50Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 9:52Chelsea Handler?

  It's Shark Week, motherfucker. Did you get that from Kevin Hart?

• 9:56Speaker 05

  I got it from his show, The Nighm Ling, what Lynn was opening for him. So I was running for governor. Emily's List sent me a debate coach, a man, which I thought was funny, because Emily's List is all about getting women elected, and they sent me a coach who's a man, but whatever. And he said, you know, the happy warrior always wins the debate. So soon as you go into your debate, go right up to the podium and do a big smiley face at the top of your notes. And I'm like, Has a smiling face ever made you want to smile? You know what I mean? Like, it pisses me off when people tell me to smile. So I'm like, I'm not doing that. But I have to think of something that keeps me loose. And we went to see the Kevin Hart show in Detroit. And one of the openers was this comedian who was saying how women are so bold now.

• 10:39Speaker 05

  Back in the day, if your lady was having her period, she would say Aunt Flo's in town. You know, we were all demure and we wouldn't say, I'm having my period. Nowadays, women are so much bolder. And they say, you're not coming over because it's Shark Week, motherfucker.

• 10:55Chelsea Handler?

  Oh, I thought that was from, for some reason, I conflated. I thought that was from Shark Tank, a saying from Shark Tank.

• 11:02Speaker 05

  No.

• 11:02Chelsea Handler?

  I see.

• 11:03Speaker 05

  It's about women owning their space. And so at the top of my debate notes, it said SW comma MF.

• 11:11Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, I love a man giving women advice ever.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  Right.

• 11:14Chelsea Handler?

  I mean, honestly, especially, I just did an Emily's List event a few days ago for a Congresswoman who's running in Florida, Kathy Castor. I love Emily's List. I love everything that they do. And I got involved with Emily's List after Trump won the first time. And that was a historic election, as you know, for so many women. So I will, let's talk about the state of the situation that we're in, the state of politics, the state of the Democratic Party, what your thoughts are. It feels very, not only divisive in our country and in the world, but it feels very divisive inside the Democratic Party. It feels like our tent is not open, you know?

• 11:52Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 11:53Chelsea Handler?

  So I'd love to hear your thoughts on, and about Abdul Al Sayed, who I know you're supporting.

• 11:59Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 11:59Chelsea Handler?

  And who is a great fucking candidate. Excuse my language, Governor, but you know, I have to be myself.

• 12:05Speaker 05

  I think I've already said fuck like four times on the show.

• 12:08Chelsea Handler?

  Perfect, perfect. You're right in. So tell us, tell us what, what your thoughts are, where you see our party and how we can improve and how we can bring people in instead of splitting and factioning.

• 12:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, we're going to learn a lot in this election. You know, I have one in Michigan, which Michigan's a swing state. We're always in the national conversation because we are a bellwether state or a state that has a microcosm or the most diverse of all the swing states. We're now number five in the lineup for deciding our presidential candidate going forward. So Michigan's going to continue to be. And

• 12:41Chelsea Handler?

  Shout out to, first of all, Michigan is one of my favorite places to go. And you've helped bring Michigan to the place that it is today. So let's give you the credit that you deserve because you guys have really shown your grit. And so, yes, it is a bellwether state and it's, and it's a fierce state.

• 12:57Speaker 05

  It is. And, and you know, and it's a diverse state. I mean, I have always benefited from a really rich coalition. You don't win Michigan by 10 points without big support in the Jewish community and in the Muslim community, with support on the west side of the state and in Detroit, the Upper Peninsula and the Lower. I mean, it's, it's, it's not something that I ever take for granted because it's, you got to show up and listen to people and ask them what's going on in their life. And my favorite question on the campaign trail was always, if I'm elected, what can I do that'll make your life better? And when I ran, people kept saying, fix the damn roads. And I ran on fixing the damn roads. And we have fixed a lot of the damn roads. But when I think about kind of the Democratic Party and where we are, we've, we've seen some of those hot debates that are going across the country happen in Michigan.

• 13:41Speaker 05

  I did not endorse Abdul Al Sayed in the, in the primary. I endorsed Haley Stevens. I've known her for a long time. I think she'd be a great US Senator. It's not to say Abdul won't be. But soon as the primary was over, we got together and said, it's time to go because the biggest threat is making sure we don't have a rubber stamp for a Trump agenda that continues to hammer every person in this country, undermine our elections, but tariff the hell out of our allies and make life harder for people in Michigan. So I'm supporting him. I think that if we can get other Democrats to see, you know, remember what the high stakes are here in this moment, there's, there's room for everybody in this party. It's messy, it's painful.

• 14:26Speaker 05

  Sometimes it's, you know, can be destructive. But in this moment, I think what you're seeing in Wisconsin, what you're seeing in Michigan and other states is people understand the high stakes of the moment.

• 14:35Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah. And it's like, you know, as, as a Democrat, as a Jewish woman, I'm half Jewish. I was raised Jewish. My dad's Jewish, so I guess some people wouldn't consider me Jewish. But I was raised Jewish and I feel like there's a lot of dissension among Jews, specifically at this time with Muslim candidates and with candidates who have criticized Israel, which I think is totally acceptable to criticize the government of Israel. This is not, you know, but it gets all blown up and out of proportion that you're criticizing Jewish people. And then there is so much antisemitism and there's so much Islamophobia as well. So like, all of these things are true at the same time. Everybody can have different feelings about the same subject matters and have sympathy for both sides while criticizing the Israeli government. And so I, and for a candidate like him, when I see so many Jewish people,

• 15:19Chelsea Handler?

  and same with Mom Donnie here in New York, who's done incredible things for the city. It hurts like, it's like, why can't we all figure out a way to move? We have so much to deal with in this country. We have to undo all of the things that Trump has done. I kind of want to get a feeling from you, even if we, I mean, not even if, we are going to win the midterms.

• 15:40Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 15:40Chelsea Handler?

  Hopefully, we can win the Senate. If all those things happen, what will the next two years look like? Like, how, because he is so clearly going to tear down everything that he can on his way out the door.

• 15:55Speaker 05

  Well, I think, you know, right now, I'm the Vice Chair of the Democratic Governors Association. I'm traveling the country to help.

• 16:00Chelsea Handler?

  Congratulations on that role.

• 16:02Speaker 05

  Well, thank you. It pays nothing. And it's a lot more work, but it's really important that we elect Democratic governors. I know we're all focused on accountability in Washington DC and checks and balances. And with, with good reason, right? We got to win these Senate races. We've got to make sure that Congress flips back to Democratic. We also got to make sure we elect Democratic governors across the country. We want to have a fair, free election in 2028. We better have Democrats at the helm to make sure that it is, everyone can participate in the election, whether it's in Michigan, Wisconsin. We've got an opportunity in states like Ohio and Georgia right now. We got great candidates. And so as we think about what the next two years is, are we going to have governors in these states who are fighting back

• 16:46Speaker 05

  in an administration that's going to continue to try to scare people away from voting, send ICE into our, our communities, sue the administration when, when it's necessary? That's what Democratic governors have been doing. When Trump cuts off SNAP, it's Democratic governors who said, all right, how do we marshal the resources at the state level so that people don't miss meals? I mean, that's why Democratic governors matter so much. And that's why I'm, I'm working so hard. In DC, they're going to have a tough job, but this job's got to get started on January 1 of next year. We can't wait until 2028. And that's why the midterms are so important.

• 17:22Chelsea Handler?

  And what are some of the examples of things that governors have proprietorship for? Like that, that are independent of, you know, when Trump has an executive order? Like, can you give us some examples so people have a better understanding of the power that lies within a governorship?

• 17:36Speaker 05

  Well, absolutely. So you think about just all of our National Guards. The governor is the Commander in Chief of the State National Guard. If you are, if you are trying to misuse the military to harm people or to scare people, it is a governor who can stand up and say, no, you're not going to use my National Guard for your agenda in Washington DC because my guard, I am the Commander in Chief. It is, you know, the SNAP example is one that I think is so important. They cut off, you know, food assistance to people who needed it. In Democratic led states, the governors are the ones that figured out, all right, here is how we meet the need until we get the right action out of Washington DC. We're the ones who are making decisions.

• 18:21Speaker 05

  Do we fund our schools? Do we give assistance to people who, who need it? How are we going to address the crisis that is coming with more cuts to healthcare? These are the things that, that governors can do. We can't supplant every dollar that we're missing from the federal government from these cuts, but we can come up with solutions. We can pull an industry to help us meet the need in the interim.

• 18:44Chelsea Handler?

  And what about ICE? Like, how do, how are you handling that in Michigan for the midterms? Because I know that his intention, and he has been successful in deploying ICE in many parts of this country. And also for the midterms and the elections, we know that that's a threat. So how do you, how does one handle that?

• 19:01Speaker 05

  I think it is by, you know, working with our, our state, our state Attorney General, our state secretary, who to make sure that as people go to vote, that they know ICE is not going to be there to discourage you from voting. It is investigating.

• 19:16Chelsea Handler?

  Can you keep them away?

• 19:17Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 19:17Chelsea Handler?

  Oh, you can.

• 19:18Speaker 05

  And investigating what happened. Like in Michigan, we had recently an ICE arrest that turned fatal. And we're doing the investigation. We're, we are going to hold them accountable. But this is why the governors matter right now. But ultimately, we got to win the 2028 presidential election. To your point, you said there's so much work that we are going to need to do. We often talk about who may or may not be the standard bearer for the Democratic Party in 2028. Whomever it is, is going to need an Avengers style cabinet because the amount of work.

• 19:53Chelsea Handler?

  And a cape.

• 19:54Speaker 05

  And, yes. And, and every tool at their disposal. Because just thinking about the relationship with Canada is one salient but small example. You earn trust by the teaspoonful. You lose it by the bucket. And the Trump administration has devastated our relationship with our Canadian neighbors who are integral to our economy in Michigan and so many other states as well. Canadians are, you know, the in-laws that you like.

• 20:21Chelsea Handler?

  I know.

• 20:22Speaker 05

  Right? Like, who doesn't like Canadians?

• 20:23Chelsea Handler?

  So shameful.

• 20:24Speaker 05

  But one guy who's devastated this relationship and has taxed the hell out of people, we got to undo a lot of damage.

• 20:32Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, Mark Hardy has been such a hero in this. I mean, you know, it's, it's very strange to be an American and almost rooting for other countries because you, what we're desiring so much is for someone to stand up to this man, you know, in the ways in which like the universities did in the beginnings, most of them, not all of them, but like when that, there was a coalition, it felt like, you know, where people were talking to each other, which is, which, I wish the tech people would have done the same thing. And instead of being bullied repeatedly over and over and over again by a bully, is like, you just don't ever give in. You can't do that with a bully. You just can't. It just never, and, and they're not even getting all of the benefits that they thought they would.

• 21:14Chelsea Handler?

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• 22:41Chelsea Handler?

  So let's talk about, how is it dealing with him? I know you've had to deal with Trump directly. What is that like?

• 22:50Speaker 05

  Well, I've worked my tail off to get Kamala Yarssel elected, and we came up short.

• 22:56Chelsea Handler?

  I know you did.

• 22:57Speaker 05

  And honest to God, after that election, I had to check out from social media. I had to turn off the television. I just couldn't believe that, here we are again, right? After everything we know, this is what the people of this country chose. And it was really hard for me to accept. So I watched eight seasons of Dexter to cheer myself up.

• 23:16Chelsea Handler?

  Eight seasons?

• 23:17Speaker 05

  Yeah. I turned to a serial killer to cheer myself up. That's how bad it was.

• 23:21Chelsea Handler?

  That's very funny.

• 23:22Speaker 05

  My kids are like, are you gonna be okay? Are we going to be okay?

• 23:25Chelsea Handler?

  Are we gonna be okay?

• 23:27Speaker 05

  And then I thought, you know, I got two years left. What am I gonna do with this two years? He's the president. He just got elected. So what am I going, how am I gonna show up for Michigan? And it's been hard, right? Like, I have gone to the White House. I have met with him. I've been able to get some things done that have been good for Michigan. But there's always, you know, there's always a downside to doing it, right? I get criticized no matter what, but at the end of the day, I gotta do what I can for the state of Michigan. And that means suing the administration. That means standing up to them. It also means showing up when I need to, to try to make the case and get something done for the state. Every governor's got that calculation, and every state's different, too.

• 24:06Chelsea Handler?

  But what is it actually like when you have to face him face to face? Like, what are you thinking?

• 24:12Speaker 05

  I'm thinking about the wisdom of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. People often ask me, like, how can you do that? Like, you made your life so miserable. How can you do that? And I say, think about what Ruth Bader Ginsburg said in an interview once. They asked her, what was the secret to a long marriage? And she said, going deaf once in a while. And every woman, in probably every walk of professional life, has dealt with people that she doesn't want to work with, who don't treat her with respect, who belittler, and yet, you've still gotta show up and do the job. And that's how I've, how I've looked at it. I sometimes go deaf and sit there and listen to things that I absolutely vehemently disagree

• 24:55Speaker 05

  with, but I gotta, I gotta try to get as much done for Michigan as I can. And that's the oath that I took.

• 25:01Chelsea Handler?

  And what are you planning on doing? Are you gonna run for president?

• 25:04Speaker 05

  I don't know what I'm gonna do yet. I don't. No one believes that, but it's true. I want to make sure that we transition to a Governor Benson, Jocelyn Benson, is who I hope will follow me as the governor of Michigan.

• 25:16Chelsea Handler?

  She was an Emily's List candidate, I believe.

• 25:18Speaker 05

  She was, yeah. And she was our Secretary of State.

• 25:21Chelsea Handler?

  Yes, yes.

• 25:22Speaker 05

  We worked very closely together. She'll be a great governor. If we win this election, which I feel very good that we're going to, it'll be the first time in my lifetime that there will be a transition amongst one party in Michigan. So just to like, reiterate that, we go from Republican to Democrat to Republican to Democrat, and have my whole life. So for almost 60 years, we've done that. This will be the first time we'll have a transition within one party, which means the agenda that we've gotten done will not just continue, but she can build on it. That's so exciting. And that's what, literally, the thing that occupies most of my energy right now, that I'm not governing. How do we make sure that this work continues?

• 26:03Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, absolutely. I would, I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, being in the position that you're in as a woman, and dealing with men in general that, you know, are trying to maybe educate you on topics that you already know about. And just kind of like, throughout your career, how you've, maybe how you dealt with it in the beginning versus how you deal with that now? And kind of your process in, and I think so many women are curious about how, when you're in a position of power, how to delegate, how to treat other women also, to give, empower other women. Because that's something I think about all the time, is like, how to bring other women

• 26:44Chelsea Handler?

  up to my level of what people perceive to be self-confident and in self-assuredness. And then also, how I interact with men has changed so much over my life, because I guess I, I've started to understand, not started, I didn't feel the sexism so much when I was coming into my career, because I was so driven and so kind of, I had blinders on, I was so ambitious about what I wanted to do, that I didn't get to really, I didn't pay attention to any of the noise. And not until I became more and more successful and heard so many other women coming to me with their stories, or talking publicly about their stories, did I understand how serious

• 27:25Chelsea Handler?

  sexism is, and how much women's success has impacted men. And seemingly, not all men, but seemingly to have a deleterious impact on men. And I feel what we're in right now, because I'm always curious, like, does this happen every generation? Do women, are, will all women become pissed? Do they all start to be like, wait a second, we should be running the world, this, you know, this isn't working? Or is it specifically just this kind of like volcanic moment that we're in, that we're just all of a sudden realizing, this doesn't work? You know, we can't have men at the helms of everything, because it's gonna lead to

• 28:05Chelsea Handler?

  disaster war, AI, unregulation, deregulation, dysregulation, all of the things.

• 28:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of questions there.

• 28:14Chelsea Handler?

  I know, sorry.

• 28:15Speaker 05

  But I'm with you. You know, I'm 55 years old. When I jumped into politics, there weren't a lot of women. You know, I've pointed out, when I was in the Senate, there were more men named John than women in the state senate, right? And so, we were a very small minority, and with it came a lot of crap that my male colleagues just never have to even think about, much less figure out how to respond to, right? And yet, now in this position, I'm always mindful of, how are we making space so that women are heard, are a part of it, without intending to get to 70%? My executive office is 70% women.

• 28:53Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 28:54Speaker 05

  I just hired the best damn people I could find. And guess what? A lot of them are women. And there's no drama, despite what we were raised to think that women were emotional and dramatic. There is no drama, because we don't have time for drama. We just get right down to the crux of something and, and move on, check things off our list. Like, that's who we are. It's what we do. And I think that's something that I've really come to appreciate about when we empower other women and make space, where traditionally, there weren't even seats at the table for us. You know, last night, I had dinner with six of my colleagues. You know, we women, Democratic governors, are a tight group.

• 29:33Chelsea Handler?

  Oh, I love that, really?

• 29:34Speaker 05

  Absolutely. You know, I came in with Laura Kelly from Kansas, and Michelle Lujan-Gresham from New Mexico, and Janet Mills from Maine. And we've added to our ranks. We're at a historic high of 10 now, which is still small, but, I mean, it's a, it's a big deal, you know? Hokel here in New York. Like, we've got, we're adding to our ranks. We've got, out of nine, out of 32 seats that are up this cycle, 19 of our candidates are women, for the highest elective office in their states. So it is a matter of time before we have a woman in the White House. I'm convinced of it. We're, you know, we've had setbacks, and it's been hard to take these losses, especially considering who, who the loss was to. But we're making progress, and, and I'm optimistic about that.

• 30:18Speaker 05

  But I look at my kids, my daughters, man, they are so much bolder than I ever was at that age. And that makes me feel like, okay, we're making progress.

• 30:27Chelsea Handler?

  Is there a time where you can remember being awakened to...

• 30:35Chelsea Handler?

  The sexism in like in a professional way? Like, is there an example without mentioning names or whatever, or just an example you can think of that that kind of shifted the way that you thought about being a woman in politics or being a professional, successful leader?

• 30:50Speaker 05

  I think one of the times that, you know, it was kind of seared in my brain was I was running for the state senate and it seems like men feel emboldened to really kind of give you crap when you are stuck in an elevator with them. I've had this happen a couple of times. But I was in an elevator, I was running for the state senate and this Republican senator who's like six foot four was looking down on me, literally, you know? And so it was a uncomfortable space and there were other people in the elevator, too. And he said, so you're running for the senate, well, your attendance record is gonna kill you. You're never gonna get elected because you missed so much time in the in the house. And I said, well, with all due respect, Alan, every day I miss was because I had a child

• 31:35Speaker 05

  cut out of my stomach and I was recovering, or I was taking care of my dying mother. And if I didn't take that time off, you'd say I didn't have family values. And everyone in the elevator was like wide eyed and I'm like, screw you, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and be put on the defensive when I did what I needed to do for my family. And you'd be out there telling people I was a bad family member if I hadn't. I'm gonna stand up to you. And if and like, I felt in that moment, like, you know what? I gotta own this space. And it felt so good to walk out of that elevator like, yeah, screw you.

• 32:08Chelsea Handler?

  It is a good lesson to show by example what it means to stand up to someone because it is like bullying a bully, right? And the idea that men are allowed to talk to us in this way or talk down to us in a way where they know better than we do. And for a long time, growing up, I believed that they did. Like, I was, you know, it's it's part of our society where you just think men know better. And it's so stupid. It's absolutely ridiculous. And now to know like how efficacious women can be, you know, when you're talking about getting things done, nobody's better at multitasking than women. We know men can't do it. Even gay men aren't really that good at it, at multitasking in the way that women are. But the relationship that you have, you know, with people when you're in a position of

• 32:50Chelsea Handler?

  power, you have to adjust the way that you are talking to people because there's different for men and for women, right?

• 32:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely. There's, we always have to do the mental gymnastics. Like, is this a teachable moment? Is this a moment where I turn a deaf ear, right? Is this a moment where I just need to punch him back in the nose so that, you know, he knows he's not gonna push me around, that that I have every right to be here in the same space that he's in? He doesn't have a superior claim to to hold this position, so I but there's it's exhausting, right? Like, we receive things that are not appropriate, would never be acceptable to send in the other direction. And yet, we gotta do the mental gymnastics about, okay, what moment is this and how do I respond?

• 33:37Chelsea Handler?

  And also, when you think about what women experience in the workplace and in the workforce versus what men do, like, the men aren't being thwarted and told, don't do this, don't run for this office, don't don't become a female comedian, or, well, they're not gonna become a female comedian, but they're not being told not to do things in the way that women are told not to do things. And even with that resistance and even with the barriers of entry that have been created in almost every field for women, when we do get into the field, we succeed. And so I find it, there's no barrier of entry for men. They're like, you can come, everyone's welcome, you're always welcome, you're always welcome. And so they've never really faced and not and again, I always have to say this, which

• 34:20Chelsea Handler?

  is I felt I feel like a broken record, Catherine, I always have to say not all men, because the men are under attack right now.

• 34:27Speaker 05

  There's a lot of good men out there.

• 34:29Chelsea Handler?

  I know, I know, there are.

• 34:31Speaker 05

  I'm married to.

• 34:32Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah. Are you married to a good man?

• 34:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, I married two good men.

• 34:36Chelsea Handler?

  Oh, you married two good men? Oh, good.

• 34:38Speaker 05

  I say, I don't hate men, I'm married to them. No, but when you talk about the barriers, too, there's also like the cultural barrier that is embedded in our brains, too, right? So many women think, oh, I've got a that I've got to have this degree, I've got to have this lower level office before I run for that bigger one. And we don't come out of the womb thinking, oh, we should be president of the United States. We're the ones who are saying, am I ready? Do I have enough experience? Have I have I checked all of these boxes? And so that's a part of the barriers, too, that I think collectively, we're we're seeing improvement. I look at the younger generation, they're way bolder than I ever was at that age and that's, you know, but that's another important barrier that kind of the environment's put on us.

• 35:22Chelsea Handler?

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• 35:51Speaker 05

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• 36:52Chelsea Handler?

  On the subject of governors, is there something state by state? I know, like, AIs, I feel in my, from what we're learning, that AIs, like, the cat's out of the bag. I don't know how you contain something that's already been released. If they're having trouble controlling their systems and there's little civilizations that are creating themselves, how are we supposed to, A, regulate that as a country? And then is there something each, like, states can do to regulate that? I know that certain states are banning phones in schools, New Jersey just did it.

• 37:25Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:26Chelsea Handler?

  I think California's working on something like a similar.

• 37:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:29Chelsea Handler?

  What, how does that all work?

• 37:31Speaker 05

  It's complicated, you know? I mean, when you think about something like AI, we have to have a national strategy and I

• 37:38Chelsea Handler?

  But also an international strategy, because

• 37:41Speaker 05

  A global strategy, for sure, absolutely. And it's gonna take leadership and we're not seeing it out of this this administration. That's sad, but true. There are congressional people who are proposing things and obviously now all the leaders in, you know, in AI are calling for more. At the state level, yes, we can do, we can do some things, but it knows no geographic boundaries, right? So we can do things for our kids, we can create standards and get phones out of schools, which we've done in Michigan as well, but

• 38:12Chelsea Handler?

  Oh, good. I didn't realize that. Yeah, okay, great.

• 38:15Speaker 05

  And that's good, right? It's good. But there's so much more, it's such a much bigger problem and and I think everyone's fearful of where it's headed and that's why I do think that's gonna be front and center for a lot of people in this election.

• 38:28Chelsea Handler?

  It's like when you think about where we are politically in this country, and I believe this is such a referendum on like the Me Too movement, like, Me Too movement happened and then all of a sudden Roe v. Wade is being overturned. And I know that was many years in the plans and works, but it all feels like women speak up and then they're like, no, no, no, you don't, shut up, shut up, shut up. You know, like, everything feels kind of like a repercussion of something else or a pendulum swing. So like, when we're talking about where we are and how how do we, it just feels like we're in such a vulnerable state as a country. With AI, with climate change, we have someone at the helm that doesn't give a shit about either one of those things.

• 39:10Chelsea Handler?

  And we're really in in a moment at the crosshairs of both of these things. And so I guess, I don't know, I mean, I wonder what you think about, you know, how people can remain optimistic and and obviously, we want to motivate everybody to get out for these midterms because they are gonna be massively consequential, but also not to have the attitude that your vote that that it's that it's hopeless. Because many times, it does feel hopeless. I'm just like, oh, I better take another edible because nothing good is happening and I might as well have a good time, you know, and just bug out, you know? I sometimes just wanna numb out. And I mean, I imagine in your position, I know you're probably not taking as many edibles as I am, but I imagine you must feel like, I'd like to tune out for a couple of days, too.

• 39:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, that was the whole Dexter story, right? I tuned out, I had to, like, for my own mental health, I felt like I need a break. But in that moment, I also learned that not expending my energy on something that actually is, you know, contributing to a better world, I sleep worse at night. So checking out is not a good option for someone like me and it's probably not a good option for most people. The antidote to apathy, it's been said, is is action, right? So if you're feeling if you're feeling ambivalent or anxious about the next election, get to work. Let's go, let's get people organized, let's get people registered to vote, let's get them out to vote. Tell them what's at stake here. Remind people. I mean, find your community. It feels lonely

• 40:39Speaker 05

  in this world and it feels existential and with good reason. But the only way to feel connected and hopeful is by doing the work and banding together with people who care about these issues. And there are a lot of people who are willing to put their names on the ballot, who do care about these issues, who are committed to finding solutions.

• 40:58Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, there are. And it's also really important, you know, about what issues are important to everybody. Like, it's important to do research. I know a lot of people are just kind of like, they're not into doing the research of candidates, but like, there are a lot of important issues up for grabs in this election cycle. And there's all, and over more, like, on a bigger scale, like, we really have to go in there, like, you know, I'm hoping that there's such a pendulum swing, that we actually are able to undo some of these things. And like Citizens United, and you know, and present a legal case to, you know, overturn Citizens United, because I don't understand how you can have any money in politics and not expect corruption, you know? How, all these systems, and it's too

• 41:40Chelsea Handler?

  much money. This is money that can be spent on healthcare. It's so frustrating to see how much money people spend. This congressional candidate, Kathy Castor, who's represented the District 14 in Florida, Tampa, for 20 years, you know, just got gerrymandered. So she has to raise something like $17 million to run her race, a congressional race. She was gonna retire. And she was my sister's sorority sister. So I, that's why I know, I've known her for so long. And she was gonna retire. And she's like, I'm not, once they gerrymandered her, she's like, I'm not going out like this. Like, I'm gonna fight, at least fight to try and have this remain a Democratic seat. But is it realistic to think about things like getting money out of politics? Because when I grew up, we talked

• 42:22Chelsea Handler?

  about millionaires. We're now, there's billionaires, and every couple of weeks, we have a trillionaire, depending on how much his stock value is.

• 42:30Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 42:30Chelsea Handler?

  So is it realistic? And can it be done? And if we take back control and we win in 2028?

• 42:37Speaker 05

  It can be done. It's gonna, I mean, think about how long it's gonna take to change the complexion of the Supreme Court, right? And I don't mean that literally. I mean that, you know, politically, the, to overturn States United is going to take a great effort.

• 42:56Chelsea Handler?

  But that was voted in, I believe, in a Democratic majority Supreme Court.

• 43:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:00Chelsea Handler?

  Citizens United. But I'm not positive. I might, I'm, because it was Democratic majority for many years, up until Trump cut it and then changed it, right?

• 43:09Speaker 05

  He's hardened it. Yeah. Yeah. It was. Yeah. But, but when, when, yeah. So anyway, I think it's, it's absolutely doable. And it is disgusting how much money we have to spend in elections. It's horrifying. I mean, the amount of money that I've raised, I'd so much rather say, oh, we're gonna make a contribution that gives everyone, you know, a certain level of healthcare, or education, or, you know, or just even cash assistance. My God, right? We could do so much good for littlest.

• 43:42Chelsea Handler?

  Well, you'll get $5,000 if you vote for Donald Trump in the midterms, you guys.

• 43:46Speaker 05

  I call BS.

• 43:47Chelsea Handler?

  Don't worry, no one listening to this is a Republican, anyway. Although, maybe, maybe we have some.

• 43:52Speaker 05

  Opposition research.

• 43:55Chelsea Handler?

  How do you look at the foreign situation we're in, or international, kind of, with our allies, and rebuilding that, and rebuilding our relationship with Europe? I mean, I'm sure China is just laughing all the way. They're all laughing.

• 44:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:09Chelsea Handler?

  Because everyone's getting stronger while America gets weaker.

• 44:12Speaker 05

  All the dictators are, think it's, you know, it's great for them, right? Whether you're Vladimir Putin, or Xi, or anyone else. And I worry, you know, I often cite the Canadian relationship as the most obvious thing, because that's what is so important to my state. And we're seeing it, we're feeling it. People are not coming over from Canada. They are elbows up, you know, the hockey phrase, like, we're at, we're at war with the United States right now. And it's just, it's heartbreaking.

• 44:43Chelsea Handler?

  I know.

• 44:44Speaker 05

  That they're talking about trying to be an associate member of the EU, because they can't count on the US anymore. They've opened up their markets to some Chinese EVs, electric cars coming in, which has been the strength of the North American market, which dramatically undermines and hurts the auto industry, which is, you know, headquartered in the state of Michigan. I mean, we're all going to feel it. That's the backbone of our manufacturing industry. And so, the petty fights that they are waging right now are already having immediate economic impacts for us, but will have long-term problems for us if we don't do a quick change as soon as we have an opportunity to. And that's

• 45:26Speaker 05

  why, you know, the midterms are crucial, but the 2028 election is going to be as well. There's so much work that needs to be done.

• 45:34Chelsea Handler?

  I know.

• 45:34Speaker 05

  Rebuilding our credibility and leadership in the world.

• 45:37Chelsea Handler?

  One step at a time, or, well, multiple steps, by multiple people at the same time, hopefully. So what is your take on why these Republicans, I know some are breaking with him, but it's not enough. And it's at this point, when you watch someone tear down our systems, ruin our relationships with our allies, and you watch all the disrepair, the economy, this war in Iran, everything that's happening, and you see someone like Mike Johnson break, or, you know, break Congress, so that he doesn't have to take a vote on whatever he doesn't feel like voting on that day. He's up for reelection, right, in the midterms, Mike Johnson?

• 46:12Speaker 05

  Yep, yep.

• 46:13Chelsea Handler?

  What do you think their calculations are? Like, how can they, they're just hoping, when they see these numbers, he's, I think, at a 29% approval rating, Donald Trump, right now. What, what is the calculus behind, I understand, like, is it just like, maybe he'll cheat and steal and win the election? Like, why would, what do they think their long game is? And first, what does Trump think his long game is with fascism? Because that's never ended well historically. It didn't end well with, it ends in a bunker with a shotgun. It doesn't end well. So I don't know what the long game is. I don't get that.

• 46:53Speaker 05

  I think you're giving them too much credit, that they have a long game.

• 46:56Chelsea Handler?

  They don't have a long game.

• 46:57Speaker 05

  They care about something other than helping themselves right now.

• 47:00Chelsea Handler?

  It's just the grift and the get in.

• 47:02Speaker 05

  I think, I mean, that's, that's my observation. I'm not a creature of Washington, DC. I, you know.

• 47:07Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, you're lucky you don't have to do that.

• 47:08Speaker 05

  I don't. And, but by the same token, we're all dealing with the, you know, outcomes of the decisions they're making. So my theory of the case is that these guys just want to get themselves elected. They just want to continue to stay in office, and they'll do or say anything, or do or say nothing, if they think it helps them do that.

• 47:26Chelsea Handler?

  Because some of them, it would behoove them to break with him in order to win the election, their election.

• 47:31Speaker 05

  We're seeing it in Michigan. So the Senate candidate, Mike Rogers, the gubernatorial candidate, John James, are now saying, we should end the Iran war. They're now saying that. They're looking at polling numbers. They don't, it's not based on something other than they know the price of gas is going to motivate voters. And so they're trying to figure out, how do they create some distance between them and the administration? It's not because all of a sudden, they've come to realize that it was an unjust war in the first place, that he never got congressional approval, that it's illegal, and that it is costly on so many fronts. No, it's because they want to get elected.

• 48:07Chelsea Handler?

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• 48:34Speaker 01

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• 49:05Speaker 06

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• 49:37Chelsea Handler?

  That other thing that always kind of like I don't get is like he could easily change his positioning on things to in order to gain more popularity, Trump. If you're at a 29% approval rating, like there's no way to dispute that. Like it's pretty, you know, it's obvious news and I'm sure his little whatever that woman is that cancer all has good reviews. You can't avoid giving him that information. He's going to get it somehow. And like, it's as simple as changing your tactic is as simple as like stopping like, okay, people don't like ice, stop that stuff. But there is no change of the tactic. It's just, he continues on the same path regardless of how unpopular it becomes. And we'll have to steal an election in order to win. So I don't understand that that is just a grift too.

• 50:22Chelsea Handler?

  Like that's just, I'm going to get everything I can out of this regardless of what my popularity is.

• 50:28Speaker 05

  Their family has made a lot of money.

• 50:30Chelsea Handler?

  I know.

• 50:30Speaker 05

  And they continue to do so. I think the stunning thing to me, the most perplexing thing is why does Congress just go along with it? You know, they're hurting themselves by going along with it, not doing their jobs of appropriating dollars and making sure that when they appropriate dollars, the dollars actually go where they're supposed to. They're not doing their job as the check and balance that they were designed in, you know, in our constitution. And they're finally starting to pay a political price for it. And they're starting to wake up to that. It's going to be too late and we're going to have Democrats who are going to come in and actually start doing the job that Congress should have been doing all along.

• 51:10Chelsea Handler?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:11Speaker 05

  But in the meantime, I don't know that the Trump administration is going to change tactics. They're making money and I think that's might be what it's all about.

• 51:17Chelsea Handler?

  Even their families, families are making money. Like I just saw something about Josh Kushner. Is that isn't a brother's name, Jared's brother's name, Josh? He was worth $2 billion at the start of the first Trump administration. He's now worth $17 billion. So, um, yeah, it's, it goes on and on and on. So what's something today that may, in all of this, what's something that brightens your day?

• 51:37Speaker 05

  I mean, my dogs, of course, brighten my day, my, my kids. But, you know, getting on the campaign trail has been really good. I'm not on the ballot, so I don't really need to be doing as much travel and fundraising, but I'm doing it because I'm, I'm helping Democratic governors. And I was in Ohio and it's a little politically unsmart for me to say something nice about Ohio, especially during football season. But what I saw on the ground there with Amy Acton, she's our candidate running for governor, Vivek Ramaswamy is the Republican.

• 52:11Chelsea Handler?

  Yes, yes.

• 52:12Speaker 05

  She is so impressive and the crowds that are coming out to support her in Ohio, a state that we've kind of written off for decades. I think there's a great opportunity here between Amy Acton and Sherrod Brown. Ohio might be a really great story this cycle. And I think that's, that gives me, you know, optimism and hope. And she's a badass and I love seeing women lean into their.

• 52:41Chelsea Handler?

  Me too. And me too. Nothing makes me happier. And I love all these armed service members who are running, female armed service members that are running for positions of power because it would be such a nice icing on the cake to have them, you know, deal with this administration.

• 52:56Speaker 05

  I mean, Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger, women winning last year was like that, that's the kind of leadership we need in this country.

• 53:05Chelsea Handler?

  And how are you, what are you doing for Michigan to ensure election security for the midterms?

• 53:10Speaker 05

  We're doing a lot, but I'm not going to stay, put it all out on the, for the public consumption because then they're going to try to undermine us. But we're running tabletop exercises. We've been through this before.

• 53:20Chelsea Handler?

  Yes.

• 53:21Speaker 05

  I was governor with Tony Evers in, in Wisconsin and Tom Wolfe in Pennsylvania and Roy Cooper at the time in North Carolina. We worked very closely together because we knew as Democratic governors with Republican legislators in our states, Trump administration was going to come in and try to undermine our elections. We were ready then, we got through that election, we're going to be ready this cycle too.

• 53:45Chelsea Handler?

  When you are such a prominent public figure, do you find yourself having to, when you're getting attacked publicly, your family, your children, your relatives, how do you handle their feelings about your public attacks? And I mean, you had a very public kidnapping attempt too. This was in your first term, but like, how do you handle what you take and like, what do you think about that? I have very strong feelings about that, just as a public figure with my family and everything. I know a lot more people in my life get hurt by things said about me than I do.

• 54:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 54:22Chelsea Handler?

  So I'm wondering, yeah.

• 54:24Speaker 05

  It's the same, you know, one of the good things about Whitmer's is we have thick skin and a short memory, you know? When, when people lob ugliness my way, you know, I just keep moving forward. My family though, it's harder for them, right? They, my husband gets so upset. He just hates it when people come at me and they come at me all the time. I've told him, just tune it out, don't listen to it, don't turn on the television. Like it's fine, I can handle it. But, um, the family should be off limits, number one. So people do say unkind things on occasion about family or people around me and I, that's, that's never acceptable. But if you're attacking me, welcome to the party.

• 55:04Chelsea Handler?

  And also I think what you, something that you talked about in your book was, you know, like big Gretchen, like that nickname, like owning it and taking it and turning it into your own kind of thing, you know, because he was the first person to call you that, right? Was Trump the first?

• 55:17Speaker 05

  No, he called me that woman from Michigan.

• 55:18Chelsea Handler?

  Oh, that woman from Michigan. How did your big Gretchen come about?

• 55:21Speaker 05

  So I was standing up to him and I was taking a lot of crap for, you know, standing up to him. He was singling me out. I started getting all the threats then. And for whatever reason, the people in Detroit decided to rally around me and started calling, you, you're coming for big Gretchen, you gotta come through us. Like it was, it was the Detroiters having my back. And I wasn't sure, you know, when I first heard the name, I'm like, is this like with love or is this, I don't like being called Gretchen. I don't know many women who want big on the front of their nickname, but when it was shared with me and it was explained, no, this is Detroiters rallying to your defense and having your back. And then a rap was created by GMAT Cash, big Gretchen. And it's become, you know, my thing now, it's my armor.

• 56:05Chelsea Handler?

  Well, I want you to know that my very first cabbage patch kid was named Gretchen. That was my favorite name growing up. I wanted to be named Gretchen. I loved that name and I knew exactly what I wanted her to look like and they got me her. She had a different name and I changed it to Gretchen. So it's a solid name. What's your middle name?

• 56:21Speaker 05

  Esther.

• 56:22Chelsea Handler?

  Oh, Gretchen Esther.

• 56:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:24Chelsea Handler?

  Okay.

• 56:25Speaker 05

  Named after my grandmother.

• 56:26Chelsea Handler?

  Oh, okay. That's nice. What is one of your favorite things about this time of year in Michigan?

• 56:31Speaker 05

  Oh, football. I love it.

• 56:33Chelsea Handler?

  You love football.

• 56:34Speaker 05

  I do, I do. I went to Michigan State, so you know, I thought I was going to be a sports broadcaster actually when I went to state, so.

• 56:41Chelsea Handler?

  And then what happened? How did it pivot?

• 56:43Speaker 05

  My dad, my, my wise father said, you know, so few people understand state government and it's right down the street. You know, MSU is about six miles from the state capitol. It's like, why don't you apply for an internship and go see what it's all about. And if you hate it, you've learned something. And if you like it, great, you know? And, and I did that and I fell in love with public policy.

• 57:07Chelsea Handler?

  Wow. I love falling in love with public policy.

• 57:10Speaker 05

  I know, what a dork.

• 57:11Chelsea Handler?

  Because I think for me, I, I learned all about down ballot stuff, you know, when, when, when shit hit the fan. Well, actually, you know, in 2008, when Obama was running, I was very involved for the first time.

• 57:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:22Chelsea Handler?

  Because it was so exciting.

• 57:24Speaker 05

  So exciting.

• 57:24Chelsea Handler?

  And, you know, and it was an electric atmosphere. The idea that we could elect a black president was just like, and who was this incredible candidate, right? Incredible. And there's so many candidates now or politicians, I should say now, that are running for different, you know, James Talarico is another guy that really kind of reminds me of Obama. Jon Ossoff has, has that. I mean, personally, it's really important for me to see women be elected because I just know how, but I, like those are, those are examples of great men that are running, you know, that have that same kind of style and that are just direct, you know? And because, because I would imagine getting into politics and public service in the way in which you have.

• 58:09Chelsea Handler?

  That there, you know, you have to forgive my language, but you know, you have to kind of, there's, there's a bullshit meter for a lot of these politicians where a lot of them sound like they're full of shit and it's all just, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they're not saying anything. And I want to know like, how you think about that when you're talking publicly because you have to do it, but you also want to be real. And so how do you remain real?

• 58:39Speaker 05

  Well, a couple of things, you know, I often think about Hillary Clinton walking through the fire before the rest of us did and how she made it easier to show up, you know, as myself. And I was talking to a woman during my call time, all the hours of call time raising money to run for office, and she said, show up as yourself. And I wrote that on my whiteboard because I thought it was just a good reminder, like, people don't, anyone can smell a talking point a mile away. And I know that people were critical that Hillary Clinton wasn't authentic, right? She had her guard up for good reason. She'd been attacked. She was the first, like she walked through that fire first.

• 59:21Speaker 05

  I can show up with my leather jacket and swear if I want to about the damn roads and, and be who I am and have a beer with people and show up as I am. And that's a gift because others walk through the fire first. And I'm always thinking about, how do we help others show up as they are? Just be who you are. I don't have energy to be someone I'm not, right? I don't have the, the bandwidth or the temperament to, to deal with BS anymore. I want to get things done and that means get cutting right to the, the quick of things and showing up as I am. And it's a gift that I've been able to do that because other women went through the, through the BS.

• 1:00:01Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, but the thing with Hillary Clinton is, you know, I don't think she, I mean, as you just said yourself, she had her guard up. So she wasn't truly who she is because we've seen who she truly is post-election. And that is actually, oh, we wish that person had been running in a sense, you know? I mean, I'm a huge fan of Hillary Clinton. I think she's, I wish she could be our president right now. But she did have her guard up and you could feel that her guard was up. So for her to say, give the advice, show them who you are is kind of ironic because she wasn't able to do that in the most important election.

• 1:00:33Speaker 05

  I think when you're the first, there's so much pressure, pressure and you're trying to make people comfortable with, you know, your ability to lead. I think President Obama had to be perfect.

• 1:00:45Chelsea Handler?

  Yes.

• 1:00:45Speaker 05

  Right?

• 1:00:46Chelsea Handler?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:00:46Speaker 05

  Had he done a scintilla of what we know was happening every day in this White House, he never would have been successful. And yet he, he had that, he had to have that armor on. When you're the first, you have to, and you make it easier for others to show up after you.

• 1:01:00Chelsea Handler?

  And there's a lot of, there's a little room for forgiveness about that. You know, people are very harsh to judge and say, oh, okay, well, that wasn't, you know, Obama was too soft on this, too soft on that. And it's like, he was the first black president. He was under a measurable amount of pressure to do things properly because, for criticism. You've considered advancing your education or pursuing a new career. Rasmussen University has a seat saved for you. And with over 50 online programs, you can take a seat in your kitchen, your kid's soccer practice, your commute home, or wherever your busy schedule takes you. Plus, with a team dedicated to supporting you every step of the way, you may be online, but you will never be alone.

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• 1:02:44Chelsea Handler?

  So let's do our caller. We have one caller that's calling in with a question. Let's do our caller before, yes, let's go.

• 1:02:51Speaker 05

  Okay. So we've got Julia calling in and she says, Dear Chelsea, I took my nephew on an overnight trip to see your Detroit show in February. He's in South Carolina, I live in Florida. We were in the front row of your show and you said, only gay guys ever sit in the front row. And you got to my nephew and said something like, well, I don't know about you, you're not dressed gay. He called me the next day to tell me he loved the show. He was glad you didn't talk about Trump because he likes Trump. That was news to me. I mailed him the diary of Anne Frank a few days later and told him to read it. He hasn't.

• 1:03:25Chelsea Handler?

  Nice layup.

• 1:03:26Speaker 05

  Yeah. He rejected my tag of him on social media at your show. I've taken my nephew on a summer vacation for the past 10 plus years. He's now 17 years old. He's been dating a girl for about two years, whose family is MAGA and Pentecostal. One purpose of this year's summer trip became an assessment of my nephew's character. Toward that end, I made drag queen bingo brunch reservations for our second day in Denver. I told him the plan in advance and he told me he'd never seen a drag queen and voiced no objection. One of the queens came to our table a couple of times and could not have been kinder to my nephew. At the end of bingo brunch, I asked if he'd like a picture with the queens and he said no. Then, as we were about to go, the friendly queen came back to our table and I took a picture of her with my nephew.

• 1:04:09Speaker 05

  As soon as we got outside the restaurant, my nephew lost it and said I disrespected him because he told me he didn't want to be photographed with them because, quote, "That person is against my Christianity and I will never be photographed with a person like that." I shouted, "You know I'm gay." And he responded, "Yes, and you're against my Christianity too, but I respect your views, so you need to respect mine." I guaranteed him I will never respect bigotry and that our relationship is over as long as he holds those views. I told him if he ever escapes whatever cult he's fallen into, even if it's 10 years from now, look me up and I'll be there for him. I barely spoke to him for the rest of the trip and I did send some angry texts to him when we got back to our Airbnb, calling him a Nazi and some other choice words.

• 1:04:51Speaker 05

  When I got out of the shower the next morning, he and his suitcase were gone. I assume he Ubered his own way to the airport. I still have not spoken to him. My nephew is my younger brother's only child. I started taking him on a trip every summer when he was seven or eight. My brother's a homeless addict and has never quite stepped up to the plate. I've provided a lot of support for many years and someone once referred to me as my nephew's cultural attache and I like that. I've tried to instill good values in him and I wanted him to appreciate the arts, to know that poverty is not his destiny, and to have experiences that will one day make him the most interesting person at the party. Needless to say, I just assumed he grew up to at least be an ally. Have I overreacted? I feel guilty, but I also think it's important for him to learn that there are consequences

• 1:05:36Speaker 05

  for bigoted views. Is there something short of an exception that might help my nephew become a better person? After all, that's been the end goal all along. Julia.

• 1:05:44Chelsea Handler?

  Hi, Julia. We have our special guest. Governor Whitmer is here today.

• 1:05:49Speaker 05

  Hi, Julia.

• 1:05:50Speaker 06

  I love Governor Whitmer. Yes, I think she plays Trump very well and knows how to kind of get things done. I think you're an excellent governor.

• 1:06:01Speaker 05

  Thank you. I love drag queen bingo too, by the way.

• 1:06:04Chelsea Handler?

  So you've had no communication with your nephew since this letter? No, I have not. Hmm. I think it's always important to display, I mean, you've had a major impact on his life, obviously, because he was open enough to even go to a drag show with you. So I kind of, while I disagree with almost everything he says, I mean, if he's respecting, you know, you, you do have to respect him if he says he doesn't want a picture. I mean, that's just one instance. But the more, like, I get, I get why he was upset. He said no, and then you took the picture anyway. And I, I know what you're doing and I try to do the same thing with my nieces and nephews.

• 1:06:48Chelsea Handler?

  And it is very upsetting when their views differ from yours or there's any sort of bigotry. But also calling him a Nazi, I don't think it really helps push, you know, kick the ball forward. But I do think acts of kindness and acts of love within family.

• 1:07:03Chelsea Handler?

  Without trying to impart your views is just a good way to keep, is a good way to, you don't have to necessarily deal with him, but you can show up in his life in ways that are supportive of him, even though you disagree with his views, in the hopes that at some point, he will wake up and realize that he is in a cult. And I like to extend and kind of demonstrate kindness to those kinds of people, just little, like drops of water, almost, I think of, just to say, like, remind them, there is another way, and there is someone over here, in case he does come your way. And so whatever that looks like for you, right? Wouldn't you?

• 1:07:47Speaker 06

  I, I, I agree. I think, you know, you have, you are the adult in his life that he needs, whether he recognizes it now or not, and whether or not it's, you've had this, you know, I think, struggling relationship. You're an amazing person to be in his life and to somehow reach out and, and just say you're there and, and you, you know, want to keep that door open. I feel like, you know, he's, he's young, and young men are not the smartest thoughtful people. He's going to develop and learn, and hopefully, if he thinks there's still a possible door

• 1:08:31Speaker 06

  open with you, he'll walk through it one day.

• 1:08:33Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, and I think maybe you can also, like, extend an olive branch in the sense that maybe you want to write him an email. I don't know what your favorite form of communication is, but maybe just say, like, you know, I shouldn't have called you a Nazi. Like, that isn't helpful, I don't think, to attack the other side necessarily, especially when his brain is forming, because he's going to look at you like, oh, like, you're crazy. You know, you want to remain calm and steady. So I think it would be worthwhile to write him a letter or an email, and just apologize for your own behavior without, and also reassure him that, you know, in a sense, like, you know, I hope you do realize that there is a lot of hatefulness coming from, you know,

• 1:09:18Chelsea Handler?

  without calling it a cult, but like, this kind of religion, even though religion is, is based on love, compassion, kindness, and all of these things, there's a lot of hatefulness coming. And so you don't want to be hateful towards him, you just want to call that out, and, and, and that you don't want to act like that. And I think you should take, I think you should take responsibility for the way you behaved, in, or, in the idea of inviting him back in, if his views evolve, and there is some sort of edification.

• 1:09:46Speaker 06

  You know, I, I don't believe I disrespected him by taking that picture, because when I asked, the drag queens were on the other side of the restaurant. So he said, no, and I didn't think anything of it. And, but when the drag queen came back to the table, you know, I asked again, she said, oh, sure, I'll take a picture with him. And so when, when we got outside the restaurant, and he accused me of disrespecting him by taking that picture, I had to stop him and say, wait, why didn't he want the picture? You know, and, and then he's like, because that person's against my Christianity, and so are you. And, and, um, and, you know, I did ask him if he called himself a white Christian nationalist,

• 1:10:29Speaker 06

  and he said, no, but he's a white Christian who supports his country. But, I mean, on the basis of all that hate I heard him spew, he, he doesn't know what, what Christian even means.

• 1:10:43Chelsea Handler?

  No, he doesn't.

• 1:10:44Speaker 06

  And he doesn't support his country. He supports a man who is actively destroying our country, and would probably set fire to our constitution. So it's, he's just, he has no critical thinking skills at this point. And I've had people tell me that, you know, guys don't, their brains don't fully develop until they're 26, and, you know, he's dating a woman, a young woman, whose family is Pentecostal and MAGA. And last year, my nephew was not like this at all. And the only new variable is that he's hanging out with her family a lot more.

• 1:11:27Speaker 06

  And I, I believe the girlfriend's dad, he's looking up to that man as a Christian role model, and, because he doesn't have anybody else really in his life who can fill that role. But I did tell him that, you know, I thought he'd picked a bad role model for that, and if, if he couldn't find somebody else to fill the role, I suggested he look to Pope Leo or Dolly Parton. And, um, I, you know, he just, I don't know, he lacks critical thinking skills.

• 1:12:01Chelsea Handler?

  I know, but these are all things you can't control in this moment. So what you can control is how you're interacting with him. What you can control is how you engage with him, to show him another side of, you know, you can remind him what Christianity is about, without berating him for his actions, because that's not going to get you what you're looking to get from him. Hopefully, this relationship is temporary. Hopefully, he's not with this girl forever, but you can't break them up. So all you can do is add little sprinkles of, like, reasonableness into his life, and just extend an olive branch, and just hold your fucking nose. Do you know what I mean? And just do be the bigger person and see the forest for the trees.

• 1:12:44Chelsea Handler?

  Just understand that this is a bigger, longer story, and that there is a possibility at some point that he could come to his senses, and you guys can engage, and just, I, I would just say, double down on love and kindness, and to show him an example of that. And acceptance of others. And you don't have to lecture, or berate, or insult, but just, just be there, in a sense, for that, just be there.

• 1:13:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, this is kind of like a you catch more flies with honey situation. Like, if you're out of his life, then the only input he's getting is from this, like, girlfriend's family. And like, so you want to be there to at least, like, provide some balances and have these discussions with him. Like, you know, if he has one belief, like, you can talk about, like, well, have you considered this other thing? And be that sort of balance.

• 1:13:35Speaker 06

  Honestly, in that moment, you know, I honestly think I would do it the same again, because I didn't know if this was a recent development that possibly could be nipped in the bud. And so I didn't think it was based on these views he's telling me. I mean, I don't think that even merits a conversation, you know, in that moment. It's because it's just unacceptable and inexcusable end of discussion. And, and then I sent him those texts, because I didn't think he quite got how badly that fractured our relationship, and how badly it disrespected me.

• 1:14:16Speaker 06

  And because, you know, after that, a few minutes later, after I yelled at him, he said, okay, what's next on the agenda? And, uh, you know, like, he had just thought we'd moved on already.

• 1:14:27Chelsea Handler?

  I know, but you're kind of fixating, I'm just gonna, you're fixating on that moment, instead of looking at the bigger picture, and you have to look at the bigger picture. Would you agree, Governor?

• 1:14:36Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I, I think he's really lucky to have someone like you, he's related to, he needs you in his life, and to be in his life to, as, as Chelsea suggested, you know, write him something. It doesn't have to be long, it doesn't have to rehash all the things. It can be, you know, I'm, I'm still your aunt, I still love you, and I'm open to having a relationship with you when, when you're ready, and I'm here rooting you on. And that, in and of itself, may be enough today, or it may, he'll have that, so that the last communication from you is not the text messages where you were feeling so, so hurt by his reaction, but opening up a, a line of communication, if he's willing to

• 1:15:21Speaker 06

  have one. And you'll feel better doing that.

• 1:15:24Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah, yeah, just do, just do that for the greater good of everyone, you know, to keep, just-

• 1:15:29Speaker 06

  I think that's a great idea.

• 1:15:31Chelsea Handler?

  Just start with some little, small acts of just keeping the communication open, so you don't lose them altogether. And just start with that.

• 1:15:38Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:15:39Chelsea Handler?

  And keep us posted. I would like to see, you know, what develops and how it develops. But just understand, you are not in control of his life. You can't just shut it down with a conversation. It's, you know what I mean? It's, it is gonna, it is baked in to these, their systems. People get involved in this, and they, and, and sometimes it takes a long time to come out of it, and sometimes they never do. So I would just do what you can, as an aunt who really cares, in the hopes that you can get him back one day.

• 1:16:04Speaker 06

  All right, I will do that. Thank you.

• 1:16:07Chelsea Handler?

  Thank you for calling in, and I'm sorry about all of this.

• 1:16:10Speaker 06

  I appreciate it, and I appreciate your help and, and your willingness to help.

• 1:16:15Chelsea Handler?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:16Speaker 06

  Thank you so much.

• 1:16:17Chelsea Handler?

  Okay, take care.

• 1:16:18Speaker 05

  You're really good at this.

• 1:16:20Chelsea Handler?

  Oh, thank you, Governor.

• 1:16:22Speaker 05

  That was great advice.

• 1:16:23Chelsea Handler?

  You're really good at being a governor.

• 1:16:24Speaker 05

  Thank you, I have my moments.

• 1:16:25Chelsea Handler?

  I know, and your term is up now, so we're just gonna have to wait and see where we see you again.

• 1:16:30Speaker 05

  I know.

• 1:16:31Chelsea Handler?

  I have a feeling we'll see, we'll be seeing you, though.

• 1:16:33Speaker 05

  Well, I, I hope so.

• 1:16:35Chelsea Handler?

  Yes, we'll be seeing you, and thank you so much for your time today. I really, I was looking forward to sitting down with you, and I'm so glad we finally got the chance.

• 1:16:43Speaker 05

  Me too, thank you.

• 1:16:44Chelsea Handler?

  Okay.

• 1:16:45Speaker 05

  If you want advice from Chelsea, write in to [email protected]. Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartMedia. Follow Chelsea on all socials, at Chelsea Handler, and find Catherine on Instagram and TikTok, at EggsOnAPlane. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brandon DeGert, executive producer Catherine Long. Find full video episodes and minisodes now on Netflix, and get tickets to see Chelsea live at ChelseaHandler.com.

• 1:17:16Chelsea Handler?

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.