Pod Insights Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! | Greek Mythology & the Ancient Mediterranean Liv Reads Statius: The Thebaid (Part 12) About this episode Liv reads (the second half) of Book 11 of Statius' Thebaid, translated by JH Mozley. It's the beginning of the end... The brothers, Eteocles and Polynices, fight to the death and leave their surviving family members - Jocasta, Antigone, Ismene, and Oedipus - to deal with their grief. Submit to the quarterly Q&A at mythsbaby.com/questions http://mythsbaby.com/questions and get ad-free episodes and so, so much more, by subscribing to the Oracle Edition at patreon.com/mythsbaby http://patreon.com/mythsbaby
CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. I try to provide direct warnings when there is reference to anything with overtly traumatic themes but be aware that Greek mythology regularly features assault, death, and many other potentially triggering events.
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0:00 Liv Albert? Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/groups.
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1:39 Liv Albert? Hello, this is Let's Talk About Myths, baby, and I am your host, here again, Liv. That's, that's me. You all heard from Michaela last week, which was so exciting. I am so thrilled to have more episodes from her, and also particularly, episodes which allow me to take a holiday. I spent a whole week where I didn't look at any work-related things, any emails, or obsessively check social media out of fear, or various other things. And honestly, that felt great. It felt great. And so, we're very grateful to Michaela for such a thing. But now I am back, and I am back with the second half of Book 11.
2:25 Liv Albert? Of Statius's Thebaid. Now, we are getting so close to the end. But it's not there yet. We're not there yet. We have to finish this book. But first, I just want to make a little request to all of you. It is that time again. We want to do an end of year slash beginning of a new year. Q and a series of episodes. So it's time once more that I ask you all for questions, comments. I mean, only concerns if they're not about me personally.
3:00 Liv Albert? Share what you have. I would love to have some more ideas of things we can talk about. Michaela and I are going to record at least one of these Q and As together. So if you have more either Michaela specific questions or history specific questions, send them our way. It's going to be really fun. And remember, we do have the option for voice recording now too, which frankly, I just paid for a whole year of that because I didn't quite clock that it was coming up for renewal. So send me some voice notes, will you, so that I didn't pay money in vain? You can submit questions either by text or these very fun voice notes, which will be played on the episodes. The link in this episode's description or myths baby.com slash questions.
3:45 Liv Albert? So please just, I mean, honestly, send anything. They don't have to be like an exact question. I really just love kind of any of these prompts that get me thinking about things in a slightly different way, because that is what always happens and I am always obsessed. And I am happy to say that I think, I think the immediate, constant workload of the book is lightening up. It's very nearly lightened, not fully, but enough that I am really hopeful that I could return to scripting an episode. It's one of these weird things where I feel like I've had a complete block. I feel like I can only do this like one thing. Oh, I'm so burnt out.
4:25 Liv Albert? But it's getting better and I, I really hope to be back with a play very soon, if not just any old fun episode. And Michaela is going to be doing a history series of episodes soon. We, we got a lot of fun things planned along with a bunch of awesome conversations that have already been recorded and are just waiting to go into your ears. But for now, the second half of Book 11 of Statius's Thebaid. Now, frankly, I just finished a ton of edits on The Odyssey, and I don't have it in me to go back and figure out exactly where we left off. So make sure you've just recently listened to the first half, which came out last week, the week before. Yeah, basically, we are in the midst of what is about to be
5:10 Liv Albert? this big battle between brothers. It's not going to go well. Spoilers slash it's not really a spoiler, because we have talked about this overarching story within the plays, because we are about to really get the Antigone of it all. Remember, Polynices is fighting Atiochles. Atiochles is currently on the throne of Thebes, and Polynices is working with the Argives to try to get it back. They have two sisters, Antigone and Ismeni, who are both watching all of this with very little power in the situation and heartbroken, frustrated, so many things. Their mother, Jocasta, is still alive in this version, which we love.
5:52 Liv Albert? And their father, Oedipus, is also still alive. He's blind, but he's still alive.
6:25 Liv Albert? This is The Thebaid by Statius. Book 11, Part 2, translated by J. H. Mosley.
6:37 Liv Albert? At Antigone's words, Attiochles's rage began somewhat to grow faint, though the fury upbraided and resisted. Already he had relaxed his arm, now he wheels his horse less sharply, now he falls silent. Groans burst from him, his casque confesses tears, his ire is blunted, and he feels shame, both to depart and to have come, in guilt. When suddenly the fiend, thrusting his mother aside, shatters the gate and hurls forth Attiochles, crying, "I come, and only grudge that you, Polynices, were the first to challenge. Chide not my delay, my mother hung upon my arms and stayed me.
7:17 Liv Albert? What, ho, my country, land of your monarchs, most unsure now, assuredly you shall be the victors." The other said, in no milder strain, "At last, ruffian, do you keep faith and come down into fair field? Oh, once again, many a day, my brother, engage, no law, no treaty, but this remains." So spoke he, scowling at his kinsmen in hostile mood, for in his heart he chafes at the other's numerous train, and his royal helm and the purple trappings of his charger and his buckler's glancing gold, though he himself was not meanly armed, and his cloak shone with no common luster.
8:01 Liv Albert? Argia herself had wrought it in Maionian fashion, and with skilled finger had woven strands of gold in the purple web. And now, at the fury's impulse, they dash forward to the dusty plain, each goaded and inspired by his companion. These guide the reins themselves, and arrange the trappings and the shining arms, and entwine their snakes amid the horses' manes. Set there upon the field is the crime of kindred blood, the dread conflict of one womb. Beneath their helms the faces of brothers meet in battle. The banners quake, the trumpets are silent, and the martian horns are struck dumb. Thrice from the regions of gloom, thunder-
8:46 Liv Albert? Their impatient monarch, and shook the depths of earth, and even the deities of battle fled. Renowned virtue was nowhere to be seen. Bologna put out her torches, Mars drove afar his affrighted chariot, and the maid shrank away with her fierce gorgon head, and into their places came the stygian sisters. The wretched, common folk stand high upon the housetops, no place but is wet with tears, no tower but sounds with lamentations. Here old men complain that they have lived so long, their mothers stand with bosoms bare, and forbid their little ones to view the fray.
9:27 Liv Albert? The king of Tartarus himself orders the gates to be set open, and the Ogaigian ghosts to attend their kindred's monstrous deeds. Seated upon their native hills they pollute the day with grisly band, and rejoice that their own crimes should be surpassed. When Adrastus heard that the princes were rushing to the perilous fight with open taunts, and that shame could no longer hinder the ghastly deed, he hastens to the spot, and himself drove between them, himself full reverend both in monarchy and years. But what could a stranger's influence avail with those who wrecked not even of their loved ones?
10:10 Liv Albert? Yet he entreats: Shall we then behold this horror, sons of Adnacus and Tere? In the name of justice, and the gods, in the name of war, persist not in your fury. You, foemen, I beseech, although your rage suffers, you too are not far from me in blood, you, son-in-law, I command as well. If your lust of power is so great, I put off this royal robe. Go take Lerna and Argos for yourself alone.
10:38 Liv Albert? But his persuasion no more abates their kindled rage, or checks the brothers' once-determined purpose, than did this Givian Pontus ever stay the canyon rocks from clashing, though it rose high with arching waves. When he sees his prayers are fruitless, and the teams galloping in twofold dust to battle, and the frenzied princes feeling their hold on the javelin strap, he flees away, leaving all camp, army, son-in-law, and thieves, and drives Arian forward, though he turned him into the yoke and gives fateful warning, even as the warden of the shades and the
11:17 Liv Albert? third heir of the world, after the lot's unkind apportioning, leapt down from his chariot and grew pale, for he was come to Tartarus, and heaven was lost forever.
11:32 Liv Albert? Yet would not fortune suffer the fray, but halted at the opening of the crime and delayed awhile? Twice were their onslaughts wasted, twice did a kindly mischance divert their charging steeds, and their flung darts fell aside, pure of unnatural blood. They strain at the reins with savage goads, they incite their innocent teams; then, too, an awful prodigy of heaven stirs the armies, and from this side and that roll murmurs through the muttering hosts. Often do they burn to renew the fight, to dash forward and to set their whole array in the wretch's path.
12:13 Liv Albert? Long time, offended alike by earth and the company of the gods, had piety been sitting in a remote region of the heavens, with unwonted dress and troubled countenance and fillets stripped from her hair. She bewailed the fraternal strife, as though a hapless sister or anxious mother of the fighters, and loudly chiding cruel jove, and the guilty fates protested she would leave heaven and the light of day, and descend to dark Erebus, for already she preferred the abodes of sticks. Why, sovereign nature, do you create me to oppose the passions of living folk and often the gods?
12:55 Liv Albert? Not am I any more among men, nowhere am I revered. Ah, what fury, alas mankind, alas, dread, promethean skill! How blessed was the vacancy of earth and sea after Pyrrha's time! Behold the race of mortals! She spoke, and, watching an occasion for her aid, "Let me but try," she cried, "though my attempt be fruitless." Down from the pole she leapt, and beneath the darkened clouds a snow-white track followed the footsteps of the goddess, sad though she was. Scarc'd had she set foot upon the plain when a sudden peace still'd the fury of the warriors, and they were conscious of their crime.
13:39 Liv Albert? Then tears bedewed faces and breasts, and a silent horror stole upon the brethren. Clad in feigned armour also and many dress, she cries now to these, now to those, "Forward, be moving, withstand them, you who have sons at home, or brothers, or pledges held so dear! Even here, is it not plain the gods, unasked, are pitiful? Weapons are falling, steeds wavering, and chance herself resists." She had somewhat stirred the doubting lines, had not grim to siphony marked her deceit, and swifter than fire from heaven darted to her side, reproaching her.
14:21 Liv Albert? Why do you hinder the bold deeds of war, oh sluggard, peace-devoted deity? Hence, shameless one, this battlefield, this day is mine, too late do you defend the guilty thebes! Where were you when Bacchus made war, and the orgies drove the matrons to arms and madness? Where were you idling while the snake of Mars drank the unhallowed flood, while Cadmus plowed, while the Sphinx fell defeated, while Oedipus was questioned by his father, while by my torch's light Jocasta was entering the marriage-chamber?
14:56 Liv Albert? So she upbraids and threatens her with hissing hydras and brandished torch, as she shrinks from her gaze and far withdraws her shamefast face. Down over her eyes the goddess draws her mantle and flees to lay her complaint before the mighty thunderer. Then verily are they kindled to yet more fiery wrath. Battle pleases, and the armies changed once more are willing to look on. They begin anew the savage work, the impious monarch aims his dart, and he at first dares the fortune of the deadly spear. But striving to find a way through the middle of the shield it strikes not home,
15:39 Liv Albert? but is fabled by the solid gold. Then the exile advances and utters loud a deadly prayer: "You gods, whom blinded Oedipus besought not vainly to blow the blaze of crime, I make no wrongful plea. With this same steel will I atone my deed and rend my breast, so that my rival die and leave me with the scepter in my grasp, and my vassal in the shades take that sorrow with him to the tomb." The swift javelin flies between the horseman's thigh and the horse's flank, willing death for both. But the blow was foiled by the rider's bent knee,
16:19 Liv Albert? yet the spear-point baffled of its vow found a wound slantwise in the horse's ribs. Scourning the tightened rein, the steed darts headlong away and traces a bloody curve along the reddened field. The other exults, thinking at his brother's gore, and so thinks he himself in fear, and now the exile shakes free all his rein and dashes in blind impetuous onslaught against the wounded charger. Arms, bridles, weapons are all mingled in confusion, both horses lose their footing and are thrown to earth. Even as at night two ships, that the cloudy south wind has locked together, break oars, entangle ropes, and, struggling with each other and the storm,
17:03 Liv Albert? through the long darkness sink, even as they are together, to the depths. Such was the appearance of the fight.
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20:05 Liv Albert? "Without skill or fashion, only in wrath and fury they engage, And see through their helms the flames of hate, And search with fiery glance each other's countenance. No interval of ground divides them, Swords are entangled, arms interlocked, And they catch the sound of each other's cries like bugle or trumpet call. As when rage has set lightning-swift bores, Rushing headlong to the fight and raised the bristles erect upon their backs, Fire quivers in their eyes and the curved tusks of crescent shape ring loud. From a neighboring height, the anxious hunter watches the fray
20:46 Liv Albert? And bids his hounds be silent, so blood thirstily do they attack. Nor yet do they deal mortal wounds, but the blood flows, the crime is accomplished. No more need is there of furies, they only marvel and praise as they watch, And grieve that human rage exceeds their own."
21:07 Liv Albert? Each in furious lust seeks his brother's life-blood, nor knows his own is flowing. At last the exile rushes in, and, calling on his right arm, whose ire is more valiant, and which has the greater justice in his crime, drove his sword deep into his kinsman's body, where the corselet's lowest rim now gives with feathers but ill protection to the groin. The other, not yet in pain but frightened by the first cold of the steel, withdraws his shaken limbs behind his buckler, but soon more, and more conscious of the wound, he gasps and labors; nor does his foe spare him, as he gives way but taunts him.
21:51 Liv Albert? "Where are you retreating now, brother? Behold, the somnolent languor, the exhausted sleep of kings; see there, long years of sheltered rule; but here you see limbs hardened by want and exile, learn to be schooled in arms, nor trust to fortune." So fight the hapless ones; life yet remained, though feeble, in the wicked king and his last drops of blood, and awhile he could have stayed upright, but purposely he falls, and even in the moment of death devises his last fraud. Cithaeron is startled by a shout, and his brother, thinking he has conquered, raises his hand to heaven.
22:36 Liv Albert? "It is well, my vow is heard; his eyes are heavy, and his face swims with death. Come, somebody, quick, away with the sceptre and the ornament of his locks, while he yet sees." So speaking, he drew nigh, and would feign also to take his arms, as though to bear them, to grace the shrines of his victorious land; but the other's life was not yet spent, and he retained still breath enough to wreak his avenging wrath; and when he knew that he was standing over him, and stooping to his body, he raised his weapon unperceived, and, calling up his hatred, to strengthen the weak remnants of his failing life. Now glad to die, Eteocles left the sword in his brother's heart.
23:20 Liv Albert? But he said, Do you still live, and does your malice yet survive? You treacherous one, who will never merit an abode of peace! This way with me to the shades, there too will I demand my rights, if but gnocian urn of the Agonorian judge still stands, whereby kings may be punished. No more he spoke, but fell, and crushed his brother beneath all his armed weight. Go, savage souls, and pollute baleful Tartarus by your death, and exhaust all the punishments of Erebus! And, oh, you stygian goddesses, spare now the afflictions of mankind!
24:00 Liv Albert? In every land and throughout all ages, let one day only have seen so dread a crime! Let posterity forget the infamous horror, and kings alone recount that combat! But the father, when he knew the horrid deed was over, burst out from his gloom profound, and in the dread gateway displays his living corpse. His gray hair and beard are filthy and matted with ancient gore, and locks congealed with blood veil, his fury-haunted head. Deep sunken are his cheeks and eyes, and foul the traces of the sights uprooting. The maid sustains his left arm, that feigns its weight upon her; his right is supported by a staff.
24:45 Liv Albert? Does even, as though the furrower of sluggish Avernus, through loathing of the shades should leave his bark, and come up to the world above and affright the sun and the pale stars, though himself unable long to endure the air of heaven? Meanwhile the long tale grows, as the ferryman dallies, and all along the banks the ages await him. In such wise does he come forth upon the plain, and to his comrade amid her utter woe said, Lead me, he cries, to my sons I pray, and set their father on the new slain corpses.
25:22 Liv Albert? The maiden Antigone hesitates, not knowing what he proposes. Arms, men, and chariots block their way, and entangle and delay them, and the old man's steps falter in the high piled carnage, and his hapless guide has sore ado. But when the virgins shriek betray'd the long sought bodies, he flung his full length on the cold limbs. No word, the old man spoke, he lies and moans upon their bloody wounds, nor do the long-attempted words follow. At length, while he gropes and searches for the faces hidden within their helms, the father found utterance for his long silent grief.
26:03 Liv Albert? Late, after so long time are you come, affection, to sway my heart? Does mercy dwell in this human breast? Ah, you have conquered nature, conquered this unhappy father! Behold, I weep and my tears steal over these dry wounds, this sinful hand follows with womanly beating of my breast. Receive these fitting obsequies for your unhallowed deaths, oh cruel ones, too, truly mine! I cannot recognize my sons, nor suit my words. Tell me, daughter, I beg, which am I holding? With what honors now can one so cruel as I perform your rites? Oh, if my eyes could be restored for me to rend them, oh, if I could wreak my rage upon
26:48 Liv Albert? my countenance as I once did! Ah, woe, alas, for a parent's prayers and curses granted too faithfully! What god, was it, stood by when I prayed and caught my words and told them to the fates? It was madness to cause those ills, and the fury, and my father, and my mother, and my kingdom, and my failing eyes, not I! By dis I swear it, and by the darkness that I loved, and this my innocent guide, so may I go to Tartarus by a worthy death. And Lias's shade not angrily shone my presence. Woe is me, what brotherly embraces are these? What are these wounds I feel? Loose your hands, I entreat, and relax at last these deadly bonds.
27:32 Liv Albert? Now, at least let your father come between you. Amid such laments, Oedipus, little by little, had become in mood for death, and secretly, lest his daughter should prevent him, sought a weapon. But prudent Antigone had withdrawn their swords from his reach. Then the old man, in wrath, said, "Where are the weapons of the death? Alas, you furies, has the blade sunk all its length into their bodies?" His feeble comrade lifts him, as he speaks, and hides her own mute sorrow, rejoicing that grief has touched her savage father. But the queen, Jocasta, terrified by the shout that marked the fight had begun,
28:15 Liv Albert? had then brought forth from her chamber the famous sword, the sword that was lamentable spoil of scepter Lias. And with much complaining of the gods above, and her dire couch, and her son's madness, and the shade of her first lord, she strove with her right hand, yet scarce at length, as she leaned forward, did the steel make entrance to her breast. The wound rent her aged veins, and the ill-fated couch is purged in blood. As the blade grated upon her skinny bosom Ismini, fell upon her, and weeping, stanch the wound with her hair and tears.
28:57 Liv Albert? As when in Marathonian glade sorrowful Origene, wept her fill for her slain father, and already was untying the fatal girdle, and bent on death was fastening it to the sturdy boughs. And now, rejoicing to have foiled the hopes of both princes, fortune, with spiteful hand, had transferred elsewhere the scepter of Amphion's realm, and Creon held the power of Cadmus. Ah, miserable end of war! For him had the brothers fought, him does the seed of Mars proclaim, and Menichius lately offered to save the state endears him to the people. He climbs the throne of distressful aeonia that brings death to tyrants.
29:43 Liv Albert? Ah, flattering power, ill-counseling ambition, will new rulers never take heed by the examples of the old? Lo, he delights to stand in the accursed spot and exert a bloody sway. What avails you, kindly, your fortune? Already he begins to blunt the feelings of a father, and wants upon the throne to wipe Manichius from his heart. First, imbued with the savage customs of the palace as proof and sample of his rule, he bids the Danians be debarred from funeral fire, and the unhappy host he left under the bare vault and their sad shades without a resting place. Next, meeting the returning Oedipus in the entrance of the Ogagian Gate, he quailed
30:27 Liv Albert? for a moment, and owned his lesser rank in silence, and checked his ready ire. But soon he resumes the king, and more boldly chiding his blind foe Avant, he cried, hateful omen to the conquerors, keep far hence your furies, and purify the Thebaid walls by your departure. Fulfilled is your long-injured hope, go, for my son lies dead. What wishes have you left? A thrill of frenzy shook him, his squalid cheeks stood quivering as though he saw, and his old age fell from him. Then, thrusting away his daughter and his staff, sustained by wrath alone, Oedipus utters a cry in the indignation of his heart.
31:10 Liv Albert? Have you already time to be cruel, Creon? Came you but lately by, treachery to my throne and place of rank, miserable wretch, and are you so soon permitted to trample on the ruin of kings? Already do you debar the conquered from burial, our kinsmen from their city? Well done, you can worthily defend the scepter of Thebes. This is your first day of power, but why do you foolishly restrict your new authority? Why grudgingly measure out so great an office? You threaten exile? That is but timorous harshness in a monarch. Why do you not forthwith imbue your greedy blade? You of the power, believe me, some minion would come eager to obey and fearlessly sever my unresisting neck.
31:54 Liv Albert? Begin then, or do you expect me to fall prostrate and with suppliant hand grope for my stern master's feet? But did I try? Would you allow me? Can you threaten me with any punishments, or think that any terrors yet remain for me? Do you bid me leave this palace? Heaven and earth, I have left of my own will and uncompelled turned my fierce avenging hand on my own eyes. What can you command that equals that malicious monarch? I take my flight and leave an unhallowed land. What matters is whether I convey my blindness in my lingering death? Do I fear lest any people refuse to grant my prayer for as much of their soil as my miserable corpse will cover? But Thebes is sweet, yes, verily here my birth is more renowned.
32:39 Liv Albert? Here kindly of stars delight my vision. Here are my mother and my sons, nay, keep you Thebes and rule it with Cadmus's fortune and Lyca's and mine. In such wise marry and beget loyal sons and that lack the courage to escape by your own hand the blows of fortune. But when you are in the toils, then, hold life, dear. There is enough of blessings. Come, daughter, lead me far away. Yet why do I make you share my sorrows? Give me a guide, great sovereign. Happiless Antigone fears to be left behind and pleads indifferent wise. By your heaven-blessed throne, revered Creon and Manichius's sacred shade, pardon him
33:23 Liv Albert? in his affliction, forgive his proud words. Long grievance has given him this style of speech, nor is he thus harsh to you alone. Even so addresses he the gods and fate. His distress has hardened him. Even to me he is often discourteous in his untamable heart. There long has dwelt a stifled freedom and a savage longing for pitiful death. And now, behold, in his cunning, he rouses up your anger and desires you to punish him. But do you, I pray, enjoy the greater blessings of your realm and in your lofty state overlook the fallen and have reverence for the mighty ruins of former kings? He too was once lifted high upon a throne and hedged with arms and impartial alike
34:07 Liv Albert? to great and humble, gave succor and justice to the wretched. Who now has but one companion made out of all his armies? Not yet did he know exile. Can he oppose happiness? Do you proceed against him with hatred and your kingdom's might? Do you drive him from your house? Is it lest the groan too loudly at your gate and meet you with importunate prayers? Fear not that, far removed from your hall will he lament. I will subdue his proud spirit and teach him submission. I will take him from the gatherings of men and hide him in a place of solitude. An outlaw will he be, for even should he wander, what foreign walls will open to him?
34:49 Liv Albert? Would you have him go to Argos and crawl a beggar into hostile Mycenae, or tell of the slaughter of the Ionians at the gate of Concord at Drastus, and entreat some scrap of succour for a Thebaid king? Does it please you that he should recount the crimes of our unhappy race and show forth all his shameful plight? Conceal us, I pray, whatever we are, no lengthy boon, O Creon, pity his old age and grant me here, yes, here, I beg, to lay to rest my father's unhappy spirit. Surely Thebans may have some burial. So prays she, prostrate on the ground, her father leads her away with angry words and
35:33 Liv Albert? scorning pardon. Even as a lion, whom once in his youth the woods and mountains trembled at, now lies sluggish beneath a lofty rock and disarmed by length of years, yet even in age is he terrible of aspect and not to be approached, and should the noise of lowing come to his languid ears, he springs up and remembers himself, and groans that his strength is broken, and that other lions lord it upon the plains. The monarch is moved by her plea, yet grants not everything to the suppliant's tears, but cuts short a part of his bounty. "You shall not," he cries, "be kept far from the boundaries of your land. So be it you
36:17 Liv Albert? defile not with your presence its sacred shrines and homes. Let the wilds of your Kitheron hold you, and lo, this land is a fit dwelling for your darkness, where the fight was fought and two races lie in blood."
36:32 Liv Albert? So he speaks, and in haughty pride amid the feigned applauding of his train and the weeping folk sought the palace gate. Meanwhile, the routed Pelasgians steal away from their fatal camp. None has his own end signs or chief to follow. Silently and scattered route they go, and instead of a glorious death, they cherish dishonored life and a shameful homecoming. Night favors the fugitives and shrouds them in welcome gloom.
37:19 Liv Albert? Oh nerds, we only have one book left. And if I recall, it's about to just toss in some Athenian nonsense, you know? Remember, this is a Roman, writing in the Roman period, and so he's working off of a lost epic probably, but also the plays of the Athenians, which means that the Athenians just come in and save the day, because that's what Athens does, except only in plays and other sorts of propaganda. But it's fun propaganda. This is the nice kind, honestly, because it's now just no stakes, no stakes. What's that like, right? For having propaganda that's no stakes. Wild times.
38:04 Liv Albert? Anyways, Aegeus, or Theseus, I guess? Theseus is gonna come in and save the day next, next time, which I'll read fairly soon. I don't want to lose the, the momentum we have here, and that will finish off the Thebaid. And while I have you all, if anyone has any recommendations for another ancient epic I might read, or where I might go dive in and see if I can find a public domain version to read, let me know. Share any recommendations for next, the next reading series of episodes, either via the website, or just in the comments on Spotify here.
38:41 Liv Albert? We're listening. And remember, submit your questions for the end of the year, beginning of the new year Q and A, so that we have lots to answer very soon. Because somehow, it's already the end of November. I don't know how that happened. Let's talk about Miss Baby is written and produced by me, Liv Albert. Michaela Panglish is the Hermes to my Olympians. She was just visiting, actually. We went and saw Stevie Nicks in concert.
39:09 Liv Albert? Rhiannon. Oh, oh, so good. The podcast is part of the Memory Collective Podcast Network. Yeah, that's the last word. Um, which again, we will be working on more and more coming soon. So stay tuned. Submit your questions, comments, very nice concerns, I don't know, at missbaby.com/questions and we will answer them in an upcoming Q and A episode. You are all the fucking best. Fight fascism, fuck ICE, free Palestine.
39:45 Liv Albert? Uh, what is this world we're living in? Um, burn the patriarchy to the ground and scatter its ashes in the winds. I am Liv and I love this shit.
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Previous Conversations: Real Women's Voices at Real Ancient Work, w/ Andromache Karanika Next Conversations: Deconstructing 'Classicism' and So-Called Western Civilization, w/ Dr Dan-el Padilla Peralta Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated