Pod Insights Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! | Greek Mythology & the Ancient Mediterranean Justice for Helen... Revisiting Euripides' Helen (Parts 1-4) About this episode Having seen Christopher Nolan's Odyssey we are so disturbed by his violation of Lupita Nyong'o's Helen that we must revisit another ancient Helen... one who gets her due.
This episode originally aired as a four part series in July 2022. What if Helen of Sparta was never taken by Paris, never brought to Troy at all? Euripides' Helen explores a "ghost theory" of Helen, an eidolon theory.
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CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.
Sources: The Greek Plays, new translations edited by Mary Lefkowitz and James Romm: Euripides' Helen translated by Emily Wilson; Early Greek Myths by Timothy Gantz. Thanks to Ash Strain https://twitter.com/ashstrain_?s=21 for researching the play, as always!
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Transcript 19,420 words · 4 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Liv Albert? Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/grouptrip.
1:05 Liv Albert? Hello, this is Let's Talk About Myths, baby, and I am your host, Liv. And I'm going to be perfectly honest with you all. I had intended for today's episode to be another where I break down some of the information about Odysseus and the mythologies of the Odyssey, but outside of the Odyssey. People ask a lot about like lost sections, which I'm a little less familiar with, but I, there is, there's really so much to say, and there's so many later authors that, that came and like invented or reminded everyone of stories that maybe existed earlier, or maybe didn't, all of these different things. There really is so much. And so we will return
1:50 Liv Albert? to that. But I, silly enough, imagined that I could record such an episode in the morning. I very often do. I, it's not my favorite. I really wish that I was more prepared, but you know, sometimes I record in the morning. It's okay with me. But what I didn't think of is recording the morning after I watched Christopher Nolan's Odyssey.
2:18 Liv Albert? And honestly, I am affected. I am affected. And I, I will not, I will do my best not to spoil anything. I don't think I will. I, if there is anything, I will mark it. I, so I'm not trying to spoil, I'm not trying to spoil anything here. But I am, like, when I say affected, I really, I, I was not expecting, you know, a, a version of the Odyssey that I appreciated. I was not expecting that. From the very second that they announced the movie, they announced the casting, you all probably remember, I was out. I have joked since then that it got me a book deal,
3:01 Liv Albert? and thank God. And that I was proud that my Odyssey is a true retelling, a, an accurate and homeric retelling of the Odyssey. At least one came out this year, right? But I was not prepared for the ways in which men manipulate women. I was not prepared. It's funny, because I really, I'm hyper aware right now of, of everything affecting women. My feminism has never been stronger. I am pretty fueled by rage, like, a lot of the time, because every single thing about our society was invented to control us. And it's just, like, super cool.
3:47 Liv Albert? But I really wasn't prepared for the things that a modern man can do to a woman without even realizing, I guess. And I, I, you know, people have been saying, like, well, Christopher Nolan's not known for writing good women, so this isn't a surprise. And, I don't know, I saw a handful of Nolan movies. I've not been keeping up. And most men in that field are not good at writing women. And, you know, I, I guess I was not prepared. And I don't know, I don't know. I, uh, this is all leading up to, uh, today I'm sharing with you, um,
4:29 Liv Albert? A Helen outside of the Odyssey, I want to replay Euripides's Helen play. But let me tell you why, and again, without spoilers, maybe I will spoil just literally how they characterize Helen, okay? That's not, it's not a story spoiler. I'm not gonna tell you how she does or does not appear in the epic, but I will tell you how they characterize her. And so first, let me remind you all what the character of Helen is in, let's say, the Iliad first, okay? The lead up, right? She is at the war. She feels responsibility
5:07 Liv Albert? for things that are happening, so they say, in her name. She feels some responsibility. She generally, though, is a strong and composed woman who then, we find out, in the Odyssey, does a lot to help the Greeks succeed. She determines she would like to go home to Greece, whether or not she went to Troy, you know, willingly in the first place is never part of it, and that's okay. She decides, by the Odyssey, in the flashbacks, she wants to go home. And she finds out that the, the men, the Greeks are hiding inside the Trojan horse,
5:50 Liv Albert? and she keeps that secret. And she, she does a lot of things to facilitate the Greeks winning the war with Troy, okay? And that, a lot of that is mentioned in the Odyssey, because of course, the Iliad has that big gap at the end of the war that's, that's missing from those texts, but it's referenced in the Odyssey. The Helen of the Odyssey, when we meet her, she is the queen of Sparta. There is no, seemingly no bad blood between her and her husband. Her husband, by all accounts in the text, loves her. I think the
6:28 Liv Albert? best colloquial term to describe how Helen, or how Menelaus treats Helen in Homer, as he is a simp, right? He falls all over her. She answers questions that are asked of him, and he's like, "Yeah, yeah, that's what, that, what my wife said." She solves the men's overactive emotions when they're feeling too much. She makes them, you know, a potion and soothes them. There is no place in the Odyssey where Helen appears to have taken on guilt from the war
7:09 Liv Albert? in a way that I find to be incredibly empowering and a reminder that for all we don't know the exact workings, there are a lot of indications in the Homeric texts that the kingships were tied to the queens, right? Menelaus and Helen are the leaders of Sparta. They tell their story collectively. Helen is an active member of this conversation. She recognizes Telemachus when Menelaus cannot, when all Menelaus can do is talk about how much he loves his friend Odysseus, Helen handles all of it. Okay?
7:50 Liv Albert? She handles all of it and she is given the gravitas that she deserves. Now that is the Homer or the Helen of Homer. Pure and simple. That is the Helen that is written in the Homeric texts. Okay?
8:11 Liv Albert? Christopher Nolan made her into a battered woman. I don't say that lightly. Christopher Nolan turned Helen of Sparta into a battered woman. He made her afraid of her husband, afraid to speak. He gave her scars that the implication is Menelaus gave them to her? Menelaus is scary towards his wife? As a woman, I found the scenes intimidating.
8:55 Liv Albert? They felt like watching a domestic violence survivors.
9:05 Liv Albert? I have never been so disturbed by a characterization of a woman and that is saying something. I expect misogyny in movies like this. I am ready for it. What I was not ready for is the destruction of one of the most famous characters in antiquity in order to turn her in to the fantasy of what a woman would look like if a man fought a war for her. Rather than the factual, Homeric Helen, who does not take on all of that weight or and is not forced to by her husband.
9:47 Liv Albert? Christopher Nolan's Helen was beaten by her husband. She was blamed by her husband. She feels the kind of guilt that is still weighing on me.
10:04 Liv Albert? It was acted beautifully. It was a story that I think should be studied for how it handled such an inherently strong and agency fueled woman.
10:23 Liv Albert? And if you can believe it, that's not the only major issue with the women. And I, again, I was not expecting good representations of women. I was expecting to see the women in The Odyssey in the movie and that I guess was also too much.
10:42 Liv Albert? I made a funny video counting off the names I guessed were going to be in it and I just went based off of like the necessary storyline women and I still over guessed by at least three.
10:55 Liv Albert? The Odyssey is a Greek myth that inherently has misogyny because of the patriarchal structure it was developed under, and yet still, the women in the Odyssey show agency, strength, power, control. They are fully realized women in the status that they hold in these cultures. We see them in that appropriate position. We see them embody those values. Homeric women, for all they are Greek myth, are very well-rounded women, particularly in the Odyssey. I'll die on this hill. The Odyssey is some of the best representation
11:40 Liv Albert? of women in antiquity, or in Greek literature very specifically, and Greek mythology entirely. The Odyssey holds the women.
11:54 Liv Albert? And I, I'm honestly hurt. I'm heartbroken by what I saw with Helen alone. And again, I will say more. I'm gonna do some, I'm gonna talk with Joel Christensen, which is gonna be really nice, um, once he's seen it. But I, I just wanna focus on Helen right now because that one felt like violence. That one felt like violence against women, literally and figuratively.
12:23 Liv Albert? He made her into a battered woman and nothing else. He made her into a broken and sad and hurt battered woman. And nothing else.
12:40 Liv Albert? And I have never felt closer to just setting fire to the patriarchy right here and now because 3,000 years and this is what we get? 3,000 years and fights for any kind of rights and this is what we get?
12:59 Liv Albert? It's not all men, but it's always a man.
13:03 Liv Albert? So here is Euripides' Helen. The Helen of the Odyssey is everything I just told you, and the Helen of this is a badass fever dream, okay? And this is the Helen that I want to remember right now. This is the Helen that I want you all to feel going into that movie because I've played too much of the Odyssey's Helen. Go back and listen to that too. Book four, if you want to just, if you just want to be reminded of the Helen in the Odyssey, just listen to or read book four, okay? This is the Helen of antiquity. This is a Helen of antiquity. This is a Helen that is based on Homer and based on the culture surrounding all of it. And this is the Helen I want you
13:48 Liv Albert? all to know. And oh my God, I haven't even mentioned Lupita Nyong'o, who has been facing some of the most horrific racist abuse. And when I say someone was abused, I mean, she was abused with this racist abuse and her character was abused by Christopher Nolan. That was abuse to a character. That was a violation. Those decisions were a violation of a female body. I'm not, I'm not fucking around.
14:19 Liv Albert? Anyway, I'm gonna try not to get so worked up about this and talk more. I really, I want you all to be able to experience it however you want, but I'm also not, I can't not talk about this because I, I went to sleep thinking about it. I couldn't sleep. I laid awake. I, the adrenaline that was coursing through me as I tried to reckon with what I'd seen, like I really, I, I'm affected. I am so disturbed. And so this is what I know I can do for you right now. Thank you for listening to my Helen rant. Justice for women, and black women really
14:59 Liv Albert? specifically. He managed, he managed to make this an abuse on not just all women, but black women really specifically.
15:10 Liv Albert? They already have enough. Black women have it hard enough. Don't, I just, ah, ah, this, I just can't, ah, there's no more sounds. There's no more sounds. Here's Euripides' Helen.
15:36 Liv Albert? This is episode 173. What if Helen was a ghost, though? Euripides' Helen, Part 1.
15:59 Liv Albert? I don't know if I've ever truly emphasized the nature of some of the plays by Euripides that survive. I've mentioned it in passing, definitely. Probably harped on it a little bit here and there and have definitely referenced it when speaking with scholars on Euripidean works. But have I ever just sat you all down and fully explained how incredible it is that we have as many plays by Euripides that we do? Because guess what? I'm going to do that right now.
16:27 Liv Albert? Athenian tragedy, that is, the plays by Ischolas, Sophocles, and Euripides, the Athenian tragedians that survive, in themselves are obviously some of the most incredible and exciting works to come out of the ancient world. That so many of their works survive is, in itself, a real feat of nature and generally humanity. These three playwrights survive because they were the most famous. Ischolas was famous in his lifetime and afterwards with people like Sophocles and Euripides looking to his talent when developing their own. He was the earliest by decades, a generation before them, when it comes to the writing of tragedy in Athens. Sophocles, as I understand him, was also pretty famous in his time and definitely more so after his death.
17:10 Liv Albert? Euripides was a bit of an oddball, surprise, surprise, and he gained most of his fame down the line. He was still notable back then, but he wrote weird stuff, and that was really memorable to people. And he did win quite a few competitions, though, and he wrote a hell of a lot of plays. Now the three of them, their work has survived for the most part because they were taught in schools, namely Byzantine schools. They were so appreciated by the people of the Byzantine period, a good thousand years after the playwrights were writing, that their works were preserved for those reasons. They were appreciated, copied when the editions were wearing out. The Byzantine schoolmasters made sure that they always had, say, Theoretia, Viscalis, or Sophocles' Antigone, or Oedipus' Tyrannos on hand.
17:55 Liv Albert? They were copied enough times that they became a real part of the canon of literature, and then finally made their way to us, 2,500 years after these plays were written. But, there is a whole section of the Euripides' catalog of plays that were not school favorites, but we do have today. They were not taught in schools, not appreciated as these like perfect works of ancient art, and that needed to be learned from, studied, revered. They were just seen to be like, average, or maybe even bad. Certainly that's the case for Isicles and Sophocles too. They would have written plays that weren't anything special, that we might consider bad. That's the nature of humanity, particularly when one is writing quite so much.
18:37 Liv Albert? But we don't have their mediocre works, so we can't compare. We do, however, have some of the works of Euripides that were seen to be mediocre in the ancient and early modern world. And that's because of one random stroke of luck! One random collector who had gathered all of the 92 works of Euripides for his personal collection. One random collector who had all these plays organized alphabetically, and one big scroll that contained all of the Euripides' plays, beginning with the letter Itha, I, to kappa, K. That's why we have so many that begin with I and H in English, because they began with Itha, or Iota in Greek.
19:21 Liv Albert? The Iphigenaias, the Herakleidae, Hippolytus, Hecuba, Heracles, and, yes, the Helen.
19:29 Liv Albert? The survival of so many random plays, rather than those that were specifically deemed worthy of teaching in schools, is important, not only because it means we just have so many more of Euripides's plays, but because it gives us insights into the others. The weird ones, the ones people didn't necessarily love at the time, or afterwards. It lets us look at what it meant to have written ninety-two plays in one lifetime, and how that means that not all of them were brilliant works of art. Some of them were something else entirely. And I'm not saying any of them are necessarily boring or bad, though I have to admit I have not read all eighteen of the surviving plays of Euripides, and certainly Helen isn't boring, or I wouldn't be sharing these episodes with you.
20:14 Liv Albert? Instead, the Helen is...weird, experimental, odd, a complete departure from the standard story of Helen and Menelaus and the Trojan War? This Helen is a character unto herself. This is Euripides turning the Trojan War and all of its expectations on its head. It's him examining, yes, you guessed it, the thoughts, feelings, and motivations of women, because he's Euripides, and he was interested in the lives women led, particularly women as notorious as Helen of Sparta, Helen of Troy.
20:49 Liv Albert? The alphabet plays of Euripides, as they're called, give us some of the most important insights into the playwrights broadly, and how their work was received in the ancient world. Plus, it's just seriously so fucking cool that I had to begin an episode with an epic diatribe on how and why we have so many of Euripides's plays surviving.
21:09 Liv Albert? But, today is about Helen. The Helen of Euripides, but also Helen of another early writer, named Stesichorus. He who invented the ghost theory.
21:43 Liv Albert? Ghost theory, you say? Intriguing, I know. And maybe it's wrong to be using the word "ghost" for this, but it sure caught your attention. And for good reason, because not only does it have ghosty elements, but there's a supposed real-life curse attached to. Before we get to Euripides and his Helen, we need to talk Stasichorus. Stasichorus was an archaic poet who wrote many, many poems about the Trojan War. As far as I can figure it out, none of his poems survive in full or even big chunks. He was written about later by many, and for so long that we generally know what he wrote and who he was. We know
22:25 Liv Albert? he was an important figure in archaic poetry, particularly relating to the war. See, he's said to have written and sung a poem about the war that described Helen's leaving Sparta for Troy, the usual sailing off with Paris, and he apparently didn't make her look too good in this poem, seeing her more as that kind of traditional Helen that we know, the one who up and leaves her husband and daughter for this hot guy from Troy, because why not? Then, Stasichorus says, he went blind. He says he went blind because he insulted Helen,
23:03 Liv Albert? that divine and beautiful Helen. So, he's set to write out another poem to make up for the first, and with any luck, use it to get his eyesight back, as you do, you know, in the ancient world when you're inadvertently angering important divine people. His other poem about Helen is what we're concerned with today.
23:26 Liv Albert? Plato quotes from this poem, which is why we have the line, "That was not a true tale. You did not sail in the well-benched ships, nor did you come to the towers of Troy." He's speaking to Helen, he's trying to take it all back. Stasichorus introduces the idea that Helen never sailed to Troy at all. Of course, he can't just rewrite the entire Trojan War to make one woman happy, make her give him his eyesight back. So he comes up with this workaround. Helen never sailed to Troy with Paris, never got on those ships, sailed away, leaving her husband and daughter behind. But someone did.
24:12 Liv Albert? Instead, Stasichorus says that Paris abducted an idolon. An idolon isn't a ghost in the modern sense of the word, but honestly, it's close enough. An idolon is a concept that really isn't seen explicitly beyond this story of Helen. In the same way, it's a spirit, a copy even, of a person. She looks like Helen and sounds like Helen, and given the nature of the Trojan War, it's pretty clear she was indistinguishable from Helen. But she is not Helen. She's not real. She's just kind of there.
24:54 Liv Albert? But we'll get back to the logistics of the idolon, because while Stasichorus introduces it to the story of the Trojan War, it is this play by Euripides where we get a real story revolving around the idea of the entire Trojan War being fought over ghost Helen.
25:16 Liv Albert? "Oh, and what about Stasichorus's eyesight?" you ask? Yes, apparently this rewrite of Helen's story, making her good and pure and never having run off with Paris to begin with, was enough to lift whatever curse was put on Stasichorus, and he regained his eyesight. Because stories from ancient Greece are fucking awesome.
25:51 Liv Albert? Our story, Euripides's Helen, begins not in Sparta, not in Troy, but in Egypt. This, you see, is where the real Helen has spent all of the Trojan War while Idolon Helen has been holed up with Paris. And it opens with a monologue by none other than Helen herself. A woman opens the play and she speaks for a while. Just, you know, try to ignore the fact that she would have been played by a man. We've got to. Her monologue begins with a bang. Quote, "So beautiful, so chaste."
26:32 Liv Albert? She continues, speaking of the Nile River and what it brings to the plains of Egypt. Is the Nile River so beautiful, so chaste? Or is it this Helen? This alternate Helen? This Helen who is and will continue to be a complete and utter departure from the Helen we know, from literally every other story and source. This Helen is beautiful, but she is also chaste. Helen then introduces the setting of the play, Egypt, and the people there with her. The king, Theoclymenus, who is the son of the now-dead king Proteus. And his sister is there too, Theonoe. She's a priestess and a prophetess.
27:17 Liv Albert? But Helen doesn't dwell on Egypt, instead switching to the story of her own life, her parentage in Sparta. She speaks of Tyndareus, her human father, but perhaps not her biological father. For that, she turns the story to Zeus and Leda. Quote, "There is another story, if it's true, that Zeus became a swan and flew disguised, chased by an eagle, into my mother's bed, and, tricking Leda, he achieved his end."
27:47 Liv Albert? There's no sugarcoating this, Zeus. No pretending that it's all well and good and that he did that to Leda because he's a god and he's allowed. Instead Helen makes pretty clear that it's gross and weird and generally, bad. From here, she tells us, and the audience, how she got to be where she is now. She tells us the story of the idolon, continuing to turn the story of the Trojan War on its head, and introduce this foreign, odd, and very controversial idea. It's not the real Helen's fault, actually. She speaks of the judgment of Paris, the story we all know so well. Paris brought in to judge a beauty contest between Aphrodite, Athena, and Hera. Who is the fairest?
28:32 Liv Albert? Quote, "My beauty was what Aphrodite offered, if curses count as beauty, and she won by promising him me." Thirty lines into this play and I'm already obsessed with this Helen. What a fucking badass line. But this is where it diverges. Helen goes on to say that Hera, angry at having lost the contest, quote, "turned my affair with Paris into wind. She gave King Priam's son an empty image, not me but something like me, made of air but breathing."
29:06 Liv Albert? And that is the idolon, sent by Hera. An empty image, not Helen but something like her, made of air but breathing.
29:46 Liv Albert? Helen speaks of the war, of Zeus and his hopes to lighten the weight on Mother Earth by having the Trojans and Greeks kill one another. She speaks of all of this taking place in her name, of the suffering of war, the suffering of the Trojans specifically. Quote, "So I, not I, my name, was made the prize, a gift for Greeks, a test for Trojan valor."
30:15 Liv Albert? Hermes, she says, concealed her in folds of air and brought her to the house of Proteus in Egypt. Apparently, "picking the most self-disciplined of humans to save the purity of my marriage bed for Menelaus." She speaks of the curse upon her, that for all of the rest of the world knows, she is the Helen they think she is. A woman who abandoned her family, her husband, for another man, flying off to another world where she cheated on her husband. That everyone thinks she is who the idolon is. And finally, the most important detail.
30:59 Liv Albert? While the king of Egypt, Proteus, was alive, she was protected. He was kind and good. She was safe. She could continue to protect herself against men who wanted her. She could continue to be faithful to Menelaus, which, importantly, this Helen is very passionate about. She loves her husband. But now, Proteus is dead, and she explains, "His son is hunting to marry me. I'm here to throw myself on Proteus's tomb and praying to save myself from my original husband, whom I honor. Even if my name is smirched through Greece, my body will never be tainted here." Have I mentioned how much I love Helen?
31:43 Liv Albert? How much I love Euripides' ability to give women true voices, personalities, passions, desires? With Helen's introduction out of the way, we know what's going on. We know that she is in Egypt, that her idolon, a ghost of her, is in Troy, where the whole of the world is still fighting over her, or at least, they have been. It's come to an end now, because there's a Greek who's just landed on the shores of Egypt, and he's startled to see this woman who looks an awful lot like Helen, the creature they've just spent ten years fighting over. "Two, sir, brother of Ajax, and man whose name I hate trying to pronounce in English
32:26 Liv Albert? because it's just not natural, has arrived in Egypt, and he sees Helen. "Oh gods, what's this? It looks like that most hated murderess of me and all the Greeks. May the gods curse you, counterfeit Helen."
32:43 Liv Albert? Counterfeit Helen, ugh. The first few lines of "Anyone Other Than Helen" really hammer in what's going on. Helen might know that she's the real Helen, but no one else does. Helen doesn't confirm or deny who she is, that she is Helen, but Tuser seems to realize that it can't be her, he's just sacked Troy over her, this is just a woman who looks like her. So they speak. He explains why he's there. So far from his home in Salamis, he's been exiled by his father for his brother's death in Troy.
33:18 Liv Albert? Ajax, you might remember, fought over Achilles' armor after his death, and when he lost, he threw himself on his own sword. There's more to it, of course, but this isn't about Ajax. We just need to know who Tuser is, what he's gone through, and why he's there in Egypt, speaking with Helen, who he doesn't think is Helen.
33:41 Liv Albert? They speak of the war. Helen asks every question she's had in her mind for so many years. How long were you there? What happened? How long has it been since Troy was sacked? And this is where we learn that it's been seven years since Troy was sacked, making it seventeen years since she was first removed from Sparta. She continues her questioning. "Did you ever recapture the Spartan woman?" she asks, referring to herself. She's told, yes. Quote, "Menelaus dragged her by the hair."
34:19 Liv Albert? She confirms that Tuser actually saw this happen with his own eyes, saw Helen herself being dragged away by Menelaus. She's trying to feel out the idyll on of it all. Then she asks if she were real, this Helen, or an apparition from the gods. And he changes the subject.
34:42 Liv Albert? Helen pushes back, though. She has to know as much as she can about her idolon, and more importantly, her husband. "Is this sighting of Helen trustworthy?" she asks him. She must know how real this idolon was, how much it fooled even the man she's been waiting for all this time. But Tucer is convinced it was Helen. He says that she and Menelaus went off together from Troy, but, he adds when she asks, "He hasn't returned to Mycenae or to Sparta, and Menelaus might have even disappeared with his wife." Helen is, rightfully, pretty distraught by this. The gods removed her from her home,
35:24 Liv Albert? they sent this fake Helen to cause horrible trouble in her place. Most importantly, though, she just loves her husband, and she's relying on him to finally find her and bring her home to Sparta. Now that this king Proteus is dead and his son is trying to force her to marry him, her prospects aren't looking great without Menelaus. But, she realizes, Tucer can also give her information about the others that she was forced to leave behind in Sparta. She asks about her mother, how she is. "Dead," he tells her, "dead for shame of Helen's actions." Oof, that's a blow.
36:06 Liv Albert? "What of her brothers?" she continues, "the diascuri, Castor and Polydeukes?" "They're dead too," he says, and Helen's heart breaks just a little bit more. The consolation there, though, is that he tells her that maybe the gods actually placed them in the sky as stars. Except, he adds, there's another story where they also killed themselves because of what their sister did. The blows to Helen keep coming. The news is bad enough if she had actually gone off to Troy with Paris, either by her own will or otherwise, but this new story, this idea that she never went with him at all, that she's just been waiting for this news in Egypt for seventeen years, makes the whole mess so much more tragic and emotional.
36:53 Liv Albert? So many people died for her idolon, her ghost, put there at the will of the gods. Euripides does love to blame the gods for human tragedy, and I am always here for it.
37:25 Liv Albert? Finally, Helen has gotten all of the information that Tuser has to offer her, all without revealing the truth of who she is, let alone the truth of the Helen that the Greeks and the Trojans witnessed in Troy. When he's finished answering her questions, he asks something of her. "Where is Theonoi, the prophetess, the princess? He wishes to see her for news on his own travels, how it is that he should reach Cyprus." Helen shuts that right down. She tells him he can't stay there in Egypt, can't be seen for even a second by the king, Theoclymenes. "He kills all Greeks on sight," she explains, but adds that she can't and won't explain why.
38:08 Liv Albert? All that matters is he mustn't stay there, he has to leave immediately. He's grateful for this information, he takes her advice, without question, and before he leaves, he adds, quote, "Your body is like Helen's, but your heart is very different, not at all alike. May she die and never reach the banks of the Erotaus, but to you, good luck."
38:32 Liv Albert? Ugh, the dramatic irony. Euripides is really playing with the audience, playing with the Greeks, just amping everything up. Who is Helen, and who is this idolon? What can she be blamed for? And what is the fault of this divinely-sent ghost? What is real, and what is invented?
38:55 Liv Albert? With that, Tuser is gone and Helen is left to feel the full weight of everything she's just learned. Her husband, who she loves and misses, is missing with the ghost of herself who's caused so, so much violence and death. Her mother and her brothers have died all because of the same ghost of Helen, and she's still stuck in Egypt, fending off a horrible man who wants to marry her against her will. Things are not looking good. But, this is Euripides after all.
39:38 Liv Albert? Helen sings, trying to convey her emotions to the audience. She begins by calling upon the muses. To whom should she direct her song? And then she finds her voice. Quote, "Fly to me on your wings, young daughters of the earth. Sirens, bring to my cries of mourning a Libyan oboe or pipes to harmonize with my grief. Tune your tears to mine and sing my songs. Match your melody to my lament, so that the queen of death, Persephone, may gain a gift from me of a tearful hymn to the dead." Fuck, that's beautiful.
40:20 Liv Albert? Here she is, sitting with her grief, her immense sadness, and she calls upon the divine women she knows can feel her pain, can sympathize. To the muses, to the sirens, those creature women who sing so beautifully that they cause death. And to the goddess of death, the queen of death, the woman who also lost her own mother in a way, and who knows the pain and sadness of loss. What's most important, though, is she knows to call to the women. She knows the women will understand her, will see the truth in all that's happened, in all the death and tragedy and sadness.
41:07 Liv Albert? From here, the chorus picks up her song. They are women, of course, and they continue Helen's song of women. Theirs, though, is tragic in other ways. They sing of a time when they heard a woman's cries wailing, quote, "a sad song that no lyre could play." They sing that she was wailing, crying, screaming across mountains and through caves because she was being raped by Pan. It is not unimportant that the first lines of the chorus in this play are about a woman
41:49 Liv Albert? being assaulted by a god, and that the chorus is specifically likening Helen's wails of sadness to that particular sound. It is Euripides, and the gods are so often the real antagonists of his play. Here, they are the ones behind the idyllon, behind Helen being removed to Egypt, the ones behind the war that's killed so many. And in being behind so many things, they're the cause of her mother's death, her brothers, even her missing husband. And then, we're reminded of the horrors they commit against humans, particularly women.
42:32 Liv Albert? It is explicit here that this is a violent assault by a god that the chorus is recalling, bringing up out of almost nowhere. It's a suggestion of what the gods are capable of, and perhaps even a hint at what could be in store for Helen if she's forced to remain there in Egypt. They continue on, Helen and the chorus singing back and forth as Helen tells them what she's learned, and they, in turn, sing to her of her grief.
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45:38 Liv Albert? This is episode 174. That feeling when your ghost idolon causes the most famous war in ancient history. Euripides' Helen.
46:03 Liv Albert? Helen is in mourning. She's just been told that not only did the Trojan War go on for 10 years, all that fighting and death over her, except it wasn't over her at all, but some divinely fake version of her, that not only did it go on for 10 years, but it's been another seven since it ended, seven years since it ended, and still no sign of her husband learning her whereabouts, finding her. And to make it all so, so much worse, her mother and her brothers back home are all dead, all dead because of their grief over her. All that death and sadness in the name of some ghost version of her, while she's just been forced to sit and wait it out. And now?
46:46 Liv Albert? Now she can't even wait it out in comfort, because the good king Proteus is dead and his shitty son Theoclimenus is in charge. And he wants to marry Helen, whether she wants to or not. Things are not looking good. And so Helen and the chorus sing of their sadness and their grief over the horrors of the gods.
47:13 Liv Albert? Helen reminds the audience and the chorus, who is at fault? The gods. She sings of Aphrodite accompanying Paris as he sailed to Sparta on his quest for Helen's beauty. She calls Aphrodite a trickster, a killer. Then she moves on to Hera, the goddess to blame for the ghost of her, the idolon. Together Hera and Aphrodite have teamed up to cause her so, so much sadness, except actually, they're each doing it to be better than the other.
47:46 Liv Albert? She continues telling her story, speaking of her life of bad luck, the odd nature of everything to do with her own existence, of her parentage by Zeus being born from an egg, how that makes her not quite Greek and not quite anything else. She says, quote, "My whole life's been strange because of Hera and because of beauty. I wish I could go back to being ugly, my beauty wiped away from me like paint. I wish the Greeks forgot my misadventures and only kept good thoughts of me in mind." And then she goes on and on about the gods, how they've caused all of this, how they've
48:31 Liv Albert? punished her, given her this bad luck, physically moved her from her home in Sparta to this foreign land, a land of barbarians, non-Greeks. She says, quote, "My fortunes hung upon a single anchor, my husband, who might someday come to save me, but now he's dead and I have no hope." She speaks of her mother's death, her brothers, she sings of her daughter back in Sparta, growing old without her mother there, without her mother to find her a match, if anyone would even want her after everything that's happened.
49:16 Liv Albert? She speaks of how, even if she were to find her way home, what the Spartans would do to her if she showed up there without the protection of Menelaus. She'd never be allowed back, they'd bar the gates against her, after all that's happened in her name. The way Euripides writes Helen here reminds me of his Medea, a woman whose life is tied to her husband's to such a degree that when something like this happens, Helen believed Menelaus to be dead or Jason leaving Medea, they are ruined, they're unable to make their way on their own. Women like them can't just move on, can't just find another man in Greece, can't just find their own way. Euripides is writing in classical Athens, which was very restrictive when it came to
50:00 Liv Albert? women, and that comes across. But Athenian women aside, these women have everything else against them. Helen is believed to be the cause of a ten years war that saw the death of the most heroic of Greek men. Medea is a foreigner who burned every one of her bridges at home in order to go off with Jason. Neither woman has anything without these husbands, through little fault of their own. Okay, fine, that applies more to Helen. Medea definitely killed her brother. Still, he's examining these women who are forced to live by the whims of others, and what that would be like, how it would feel to have your fate decided by others, by the will of the gods.
50:57 Liv Albert? Eventually, the chorus steps in on Helen's grief-filled speech. They try to remind her that it's very possible that the news she received from Tuser isn't all true. It's very possible that he didn't know the fate of Menelaus, that maybe Menelaus is still alive. Helen, though, can't be convinced. She's stuck in her sadness, the grief at learning that her fate's been decided already. They push her, remind her that he could still be alive. They remind her that not everything is bad, that she likes everyone in the Egyptian palace aside from Theoclymenes, that beyond him, she does have friends there.
51:38 Liv Albert? They tell her to go inside and speak to Theoclymenes's sister, Theonoi, who is not only Helen's friend, but also a powerful prophetess and a priestess. She will know Menelaus's fate. "Go ask her," they tell Helen, "then you will know for sure, and you can behave accordingly, weep and grieve, or keep your hope." They add that they wish to go inside with her to hear the news from Theonoi themselves, "since women always ought to work together."
52:13 Liv Albert? Euripides, I love you. They continue to speak. Helen is so broken by the war that's been fought for her, so overwhelmed by the sadness and the guilt of it all being done in her name, even if she was nowhere near the action, had no say in what happened, and couldn't be blamed if anyone knew the truth of the idolon. Still, it was all done in her name and so much blood was spilled. She considers ending it all, especially if Menelaus is indeed dead. If that's true, she can't see any way out. She considers how she could do it, determining that hanging herself is undignified, that she's better than that. Instead, quote, "I'll drive the iron inside my flesh to win the game of death, a sacrifice to them, that triple team of goddesses."
53:00 Liv Albert? I wouldn't normally quote so much about suicidal ideation, I'm sorry, but I couldn't let you all live without that line. "To win the game of death." The whole thing is too powerful, an indictment of the gods who started all of this.
53:20 Liv Albert? Helen goes on, theorizing about Menelaus's death, still, telling the chorus that if she learns that he is definitely dead and gone, she will have to kill herself to end it all. She speaks of the war, and while I really should move this along, I just have to quote more of it to you because it's too good. Quote, "Oh, Troy, unhappy city, ruined through deeds that were not done. How terribly you suffered. My gifts from Aphrodite bore so much blood, so much weeping, grief on grief and pain on pain."
54:00 Liv Albert? And she continues, later, quote, "The land of Greece cried out and keened with wails and lamentation. They beat their faces and ripped their tender cheeks with fingernails that scraped till they were wet with blood."
54:18 Liv Albert? Euripides is definitely telling us a little something about the horrors of war, and that's not unintentional, or just a side effect of speaking of the Trojan War. This was written very shortly after the famed Sicilian Expedition, which did not go well for Athens. Of course, we can't really say for sure whether Euripides is condemning war because of how the Sicilian Expedition went for Athens, i.e. that they lost badly, or just because he was anti-war broadly. Still, it's an interesting added piece in a work that already is a commentary on the gods and maybe even the way that Greeks have been viewing Helen for the last few hundred years.
55:00 Liv Albert? As Ash put in their notes on this play, thank you Ash for notes, this is a Helen who is desperate, who is enslaved by her beauty. What I wouldn't give to talk to Euripides, to ask him questions about why he wrote what he wrote, my kingdom for a time machine that doesn't break everything. Now, remember, before all of this began, Helen was meant to go inside and speak to Theocliminus's sister, ask her for a prophecy of her future, gain some insight into what's happened, what will happen, and maybe just how screwed she is, or isn't. So finally, after all her lamentation, all the talk of the horror done in her name, in
55:40 Liv Albert? the name of her beauty and her body, she goes inside to speak with Theonoe. And then Menelaus walks onstage, and he's not wearing much.
56:10 Liv Albert? Menelaus walks onstage wearing very little, rags really torn to shreds by the shipwreck he's just endured, the reason he's washed up, all haggard and torn up on the shores of Egypt. But he doesn't know where he is, has no idea actually. He begins with a speech explaining this, telling the audience- of who he is and what he's endured. He references his father, Atrius, and his father, Pelops, a less than subtle nod to the curse that hangs heavy on his family. He tells the audience how he's been trying to get home, how he sailed everywhere across the coast of Africa and found no welcome, and that every time he's about to finally sail home, gets far enough north, every time the right winds catch his sails,
56:53 Liv Albert? they blow in the opposite direction and he's pushed away from Greece once more. Never reaching home, never even getting close. And that's when he was finally shipwrecked. Only he and a few others survived the wreck, though one survivor is particularly notable. Can you guess who it is? His wife. Metaleus tells the audience that he and Helen, the woman who caused that awful war in the first place, survived the shipwreck. He goes on to say that he left her in a cave nearby so that he could find out where they are, whether they're in enemy territory or not. He's embarrassed, though, to have to explain who he is when he's looking so shabby,
57:36 Liv Albert? so tired and dirty, so broken down by what he's endured. Finally, he spots someone coming out of the palace. He's eager to speak with them, to find out who lives in this fancy, obviously very rich palace that he's stumbled upon. So when an old woman exits the palace and addresses him, he's happy to speak. Kind of. Because, well, this woman immediately tells him to leave because he'll annoy the man who rules the palace, and that even worse, if he's Greek, he's sure to die. No Greeks are welcome. They have a kerfuffle, it seems, with Metaleus telling her not to threaten him, not to use fists or shove him, and her replying that it's his fault because he won't leave. He pushes her, asking her to go, just go inside and speak to the ruler of the house.
58:21 Liv Albert? But she cuts him off. It'll be worse if I do. He's clearly not listening to her very clear instruction. If you're Greek, you're not welcome here. In fact, you're completely fucked. You will be killed. And, well, Metaleus is a bit of a dink, frankly. "I'm lost," he announces petulantly before adding that he "had a very famous army once," to which she replies, "Were you important somewhere? Here, you're not." Which he finds to be quite unfair, quite disrespectful, but again, imagine it, petulant. He says that he used to have good luck, to which she replies, "Then why not leave? Your friends can watch you cry." Anyway, I love her. Menelaus, though, ignores the jabs and also ignores her very obvious instructions to leave.
59:05 Liv Albert? Instead, he presses for information, asking where he is, whose palace, whose kingdom this is. "This is the house of Proteus," she tells him, "the kingdom of Egypt." Menelaus isn't thrilled to hear that he's all the way in Egypt. It's not exactly close to home and he's been trying so damn hard to reach Sparta. She's a bit snippy, though, when he's upset to be in Egypt. "The sparkling Nile, what's wrong with it?" to you. And I mean, she's not wrong, the Nile is awesome. And I think under normal circumstances, Menelaus would agree. It's just that he'd really like to be home, which is basically what he tells her. "I wasn't criticizing, I'm just sad."
59:46 Liv Albert? Again, this Menelaus is a bit of a dweeb so far, but I think we'll come around to him. Still, the immediate juxtaposition of his complaints on his own luck versus Helen's very valid and very righteous laments about her situation is interesting. Obviously, hers is also a matter of luck, but she can speak about it in terms of divine intervention, the actions of the gods, and how they've affected her entire life, her entire fate, how it's affected the whole Greek and Trojan worlds. How much needless bloodshed happened, how tragic it all is, the lives lost. Meanwhile, he's like, "I'm sad." Still, he's not pulled off his course too long.
1:00:28 Liv Albert? He asks the woman again about her master, about who rules the palace, the kingdom there in Egypt. She explains that this tomb they're standing near is his, Proteus. Now that he's dead, his son rules the kingdom, and he hates Greeks.
1:00:45 Liv Albert? Finally, Menelaus asks the important question, "Why does he hate Greeks?" And she answers him, "Helen, the child of Zeus, is in this house."
1:01:24 Liv Albert? The old woman, standing outside Proteus's grave, speaking with a ragged, tired, and broken Menelaus, announces that the reason the king, Theoclymenus, hates Greeks is that Helen is in his house.
1:01:39 Liv Albert? "She what?" Menelaus asks her to repeat herself, not believing what he's just heard. She says it again, "The child of Tyndareus, the girl from Sparta." I love that in answering this question, she manages to give Helen her two fathers, Zeus and Tyndareus, but it's all the same woman? This is ancient Greece, and everyone would have just been like, "Yep, that's Helen." Of course, the important part here is the way Menelaus is absolutely reeling from this news. "Sorry, what? My wife? Here?" He's baffled. He's just left her in a cave, not even hours ago. He says, "But when? My wife was stolen from the cave?"
1:02:20 Liv Albert? To which the woman replies, without further explanation, that Helen arrived before the Greeks ever arrived in Troy. She won't hear anything more from him. She tells him that he's come at a bad time, there's trouble, and if he's caught there, he will be killed. She's trying to help him, she says, that she actually likes Greeks, but she's afraid of Theoclymenus. And there, she finally leaves him. Leaves him feeling very, very confused.
1:02:51 Liv Albert? Menelaus is reeling. He begins a speech, trying to talk through what he's just learned, to understand how it could be that this woman believes Helen to be here. What confusion could have taken place for this to occur? He theorizes that the woman staying there in Egypt must be a different Helen, just a woman with the same name? Except, he continues, is there another Zeus who could be her father? Another Sparta there in Egypt? Where this other Helen could be from? Somehow he decides that those are possible, but there's only one Tyndareus. That's the big confusion, which I love.
1:03:33 Liv Albert? Tyndareus is where you draw the line, but not like Zeus? He just can't fathom it all, can't sort it out in his mind. He says, quote, "Is there another country that's called Sparta and Troy? I guess the world is large and many men must have the same names. Also cities. Also women." What a good line. This Menelaus is funny. Yeah, sometimes people have the same names. Uh huh. Not the same fathers, though, often. Still, after all this, he won't accept the fact that he will not find a warm welcome there in Egypt. He decides that no matter what that woman said, the king will surely welcome him, give him food and something to wear, that it's impossible that he won't be given a nice welcome. He's famous, after all.
1:04:15 Liv Albert? His name is well-known and surely this king will realize that and be his host. He decides he'll wait there for the king and just decide what he should do when he sees him, or meets him. If he seems scary, then he'll leave, but if not, he'll ask for all the things he needs. And then, Helen comes back on stage. She doesn't see Menelaus yet. First, she has to tell the audience what she's just learned from Theonoe, the prophetess. That Menelaus isn't dead. Phew, lucky we have her here to tell us. She is thrilled by this news, of course, relieved and happy and eager to talk about what she's heard.
1:04:57 Liv Albert? Not only is he alive, but when his trouble is ended, he'll reach her there in Egypt. She finishes her speech, quote, "Oh, my husband, when will you come? I'd be so glad to see you."
1:05:12 Liv Albert? And then she sees him. There's no way this isn't meant to be at least a little comedic, but also the dramatic irony. She sees him and she immediately questions who this man is. There's the dramatic irony. She assumes he's working for Theoclymenes, there to force her to marry him. She decides to run from him, as run as fast as she can to the altar of the tomb, hold on to it so that this rough-looking man, this wild-looking man, can't get her.
1:05:41 Liv Albert? Menelaus, of course, sees her now and equally does not immediately realize who he's looking at, though he has a much better reason, given he believes Helen to be in the cave where he left her. Helen, meanwhile, probably should have recognized her husband, but hey, she's been through a lot and it's been seventeen years and he does look haggard as fuck.
1:05:58 Liv Albert? Still, Menelaus sees this woman coming from the palace, running from him, racing to the altar nearby. He calls out to her, asks her to stop, asks her who she is. He adds, quote, "Your looks gave me a shock. In fact, I'm speechless." He is not, in fact, speechless. They begin a back-and-forth, neither realizing who they're looking at, but both noticing the resemblances to their spouse. Menelaus asks who she is, and she replies, asking who he is. They won't tell each other, but they are both confused, speaking to the others if they're speaking to themselves.
1:06:35 Liv Albert? Menelaus says that he's never seen another woman who looks this much like Helen, and Helen says that, quote, "It's a god to recognize one's love." They continue. Menelaus asks if she's a Helene, a Greek, and she tells him that she is, and asks the same, to which he replies, quote, "I never saw a woman so like Helen." And she says, "And you're like Menelaus. I can't speak." This is finally enough. Menelaus replies, confirming that he is indeed Menelaus. It's all Helen needed to hear. She's relieved, thrilled. She calls out to him, "At last, he's here."
1:07:18 Liv Albert? She asks him to come to her, to come to his wife's arms. But it won't be that easy.
1:07:45 Liv Albert? Helen is, at least momentarily, relieved to have found Menelaus. She's so happy that this dirty, wild-looking man standing before her shipwrecked on the shores of Egypt is indeed her husband. The husband she's been longing for, thinking of every moment of the last seventeen years. The husband she believed to be dead, that she's been worried about, hoping to see every moment of every day. But he won't come to her.
1:08:24 Liv Albert? In fact, he snaps at her, telling her to get her hands off of him, tells her that she is not his wife. She tries to explain, remind him of when they were married, but it's no use. First, he thinks she's a ghost, but she tells him that no, that isn't it. Still, he can't accept it, can't believe that he has two wives. He just left his own wife Helen in the cave nearby. This woman might look like her, but she certainly isn't the same Helen that he just left. God's Greek mythology is timeless, isn't it? Can you just see this, like, in modern fiction, movies?
1:09:05 Liv Albert? This not-so-mistaken identity, the romantic tension that comes from knowing that one person knows the truth while the other is missing out? Knowing that Helen knows that this is the true Helen and that she loves her husband so damn much, but here he is rejecting her, not accepting that it's her, instead calling back to the ghost of her, thinking she's a ghost? When the one he thinks is real is the version made of air.
1:09:34 Liv Albert? And that's essentially what Helen tries to point out to him. She tries to convince him, telling him that she is his wife. Can't he see it? She tells him that there is no other, it's only her. Can't he see his beloved wife standing right before him? But he can't. And it's tough to blame him, he's been fooled these last seventeen years, and that isn't easy to accept. But she keeps trying. She tries to explain to him what happened. She tells him that she never went to Troy, that she was brought there to Egypt instead. He concedes that she does look just like his wife, but that's it. Just looks.
1:10:15 Liv Albert? Quote, "Who manufactures living, seeing bodies?" "The gods," she tells him, "the gods did this." She tells him that the gods made him a fake wife, a fake woman, out of thin air. She tells him it was Hera, that she did it so that Paris wouldn't get the real Helen, then she swapped them, tricked him. Menelaus says, quote, "How, so, so you were here and in Troy too?" And Helen replies, "Names can be everywhere. A body not." Another good one, Euripides.
1:11:00 Liv Albert? But poor Helen, Menelaus is not convinced. He can't believe that she can be Helen, that there can be two Helens. Or rather, that the one he's been traveling with for seven years, fighting over for another ten, isn't actually his Helen. A tough pill to swallow, so we can't exactly blame him. Helen has an uphill battle here. She asks him if he's leaving her for it, for the emptiness. And he says yes. He tells her, quote, "My pain at Troy persuades me, you do not." Again, good line.
1:11:38 Liv Albert? And then, then a servant comes rushing up to Menelaus, tells him he's come looking for him, sent by his men back at the cave. The man is frantic, breathing heavily, panicked even. Menelaus asks him if they've been robbed by the barbarians. The word barbarian is used a lot here, and it's important. I've said it before and I'll say it now. The word barbarian in ancient Greek just referred to people who were not Greek, who didn't speak Greek. It comes from an onomatopoeia, the sound of languages that weren't Greek, interpreted by Greeks. Of course, in this context too, there is an element of the modern word. The Egyptians here are hateful of Greeks, or at least Theoclymene is.
1:12:21 Liv Albert? He is a bad dude attempting bad things, so it's extra interesting used in this context, because it kinda means both. But it still has the connotation of, this is someone who isn't Greek. The servant replies to Menelaus, when asked if they've been robbed by the Egyptians, he says that the word rob is too small, too insignificant, to explain what happened. He continues, quote, "Your wife is gone in into the folds of the sky. She's taken, she's invisible, she's hidden in heaven. She has left the holy cave where we were guarding her. She said, 'Poor Trojans and Greeks who died for me beside the banks of the Scamander,
1:13:06 Liv Albert? all through Hera's schemes. Paris you thought had Helen, he did not. I stayed as long as I was meant to stay, and now I'm going back to the sky, my father, I've served my destiny.'" He adds, "Poor Helen, got a bad reputation she did not deserve." And then he sees the real Helen, the Helen standing before Menelaus, the Helen who's just begged him to believe her, to accept that she is actually her, that she is his wife, that she's been there in Egypt the whole time, that the other Helen was nothingness, was created of air by the gods, that the other Helen was the fake, the ghost, the idolon.
1:14:21 Liv Albert? This is episode 175. First he made us feel for Agamemnon, and now Menelaus is sexy? Euripides' Helen.
1:14:45 Liv Albert? The servant has just told Menelaus of Helen's disappearance from the cave where he left her protected not long ago. He tells him of the words she spoke before she disappeared, how she spoke of the horrors of the war, how she was brought there by Hera's schemes, how Paris never had the real Helen to begin with, how she was returning to her father in the sky.
1:15:12 Liv Albert? And when the servant finished speaking these words of ghost Helen, disappeared Helen, he sees the real Helen, standing right there in front of Menelaus. And, well, he says, quote, "Oh, hello, Leda's daughter. So you're here? I was just telling how you'd gone away to nestle with the stars. I didn't know that you could fly."
1:15:36 Liv Albert? The servant doesn't know what he's saying. He believes that this is the same Helen he just saw apparently fly up into the sky? Menelaus, though, now understands. Now he believes this Helen who's been standing before him, begging him to believe her, begging him to accept that she is his wife, begging him to show that he still loves her, and showing him that she still loves him, begging him to take her home. He says, quote, "Her words have turned out true.
1:16:15 Liv Albert? This is the day of happiness I longed for, when I can finally take my Helen in my arms."
1:16:24 Liv Albert? And while this part is super fucking nice and cute, Helen is so, so happy. She's so happy to see him, so happy to throw her arms around him. She's just so, so happy to have her husband back. And Menelaus feels the same. He tells her that he has so many things to say, he doesn't even know where to start. Helen's almost crying with happiness. She can't get over her relief, her delight, that she has her husband there with her, finally. It's so fucking lovely and emotional and romantic that Menelaus even says outright, quote, "The past is gone.
1:17:09 Liv Albert? The god once took you away from me, but leads you now to a different life, a better future." Like, he just believes and accepts everything. He believes her, he understands that it was all the will of the gods, that the woman who spawned the whole war wasn't her, that none of this was her fault, that she caused no deaths, that it wasn't even her body. He just accepts it and is immediately willing to move on to start their lives together fresh and new. And not only that, but when Helen once again exclaims how happy she is, he replies, quote, "Yes, be happy. I pray the same as you. We too are a team.
1:17:51 Liv Albert? If one is sad, so is the other." Which is how we get the title of today's episode, because I thought Euripides really stretched it by having us sympathize with Agamemnon back in Iphigenia at Aulis. But I am actually smitten with Menelaus now, and frankly, that is absolutely absurd. And I love it. This is romantic, in a way that so very few other Greek plays are. It is about their relationship, their love, their reunion.
1:18:23 Liv Albert? They keep talking, and honestly, Menelaus just keeps being more and more lovely, and Euripides just keeps proving he can write pretty fucking healthy romantic relationships between a man and a woman, and isn't that refreshing? Menelaus says to Helen, quote, "You have me and I have you. I have lived through so many dawns of suffering, but now I see the light." Euripides is writing a couple that are equal. Like, Menelaus is just repeatedly emphasizing not only the love and affection he has for his wife, but the respect. He is calling them a team, implying they are equals in their relationship.
1:19:07 Liv Albert? And while my mind is exploding from the sheer ancient Athens of it all. (sigh) With this romantic and beautiful reunion somewhat out of the way, or certainly the initial thrill dissipating into a comfortable affection and general happiness, now Menelaus is interested in knowing how exactly things came to be as they are. And I mean, fair. He's got a lot of information to take in, and frankly, I'm impressed he came around as quickly as he did, even if it definitely wasn't immediate. "How did you get here?" he asks Helen. Helen, though, would much rather not revisit the past. How she got to where she is, and everything that happened in between.
1:19:50 Liv Albert? She tries, though not very hard, to keep him from asking her, but ultimately she recognizes that it's a story that needs to be told. She finally says, quite adorably, quote, "Curse that story, which I'm about to tell."
1:20:24 Liv Albert? Helen begins her story to Menelaus, and well, yet again, this is where we get some really good lines, because I don't know if I've made it clear, but Euripides was a really good writer. Quote, "The ship didn't fly to the bed of that foreign young man; my desire didn't fly to adultery." The story continues, but it's one we've already heard at the beginning of the play during Helen's own monologue. "It was Hermes who brought her there, but at the will of Hera, all because Paris chose Aphrodite in the contest, the judgment of Paris, that damned golden apple. He determined that Aphrodite was the fairest, and Hera wasn't having it." They speak of all that's happened, of Helen's mother back at home, of her death.
1:21:08 Liv Albert? They speak of Hermione, their daughter, alive but mourning her mother's choices, or rather the ghost of her mother's choices. They talk of her brothers, all so dead, of grief. Then the servant chimes in. He wants to know what he's missing. He sees their happiness, their relief, but he doesn't understand. So they explain it to him, and we get the brilliant line, quote, "We suffered for no reason? For a cloud?" Yes, Greeks and Trojans, you suffered for a cloud, because the gods are fickle as fuck. That much Euripides wants to make very, very clear.
1:21:51 Liv Albert? There is no reverence for them here. The servant, the messenger, is happy for the couple. He speaks of his memories of them back in Sparta, of their relationship before Menelaus, asks him to return to the men at the caves and tell them the news, and that they should continue to wait there, to wait out whatever challenges he still has to face there in Egypt, to wait there so that they might escape together if they need to. And they will need to. Before the servant messenger goes, though, he speaks of prophecy. He's angry at the prophets who led them to Troy in the first place and kept them there,
1:22:33 Liv Albert? Chalcis, back at the very beginning of the war, and the Trojan Helenus, the prophet during the war. He's not a fan of prophecy. Quote, "No one gets rich from sitting beside the prophet's fire and doing nothing. Forethought and brains can tell the future best."
1:22:52 Liv Albert? You can't blame this guy for being a little bitter. He's just lived through the Trojan War, seen who knows how many of his friends and family die, all over this woman who, he's just learned, was a fucking cloud? So the easiest and most rational thing to do here is to blame the prophets who led them astray. Like Chalcis told the Greeks they had to sacrifice Iphigenia at Aulis so that they could have a bit of wind, but somehow he didn't know that all along the Helen they were going after was a divinely created cloud? So much for the voice of prophecy.
1:23:28 Liv Albert? But with the messenger gone, Menelaus and Helen are left to continue catching up on all they've missed, having been away from each other for seventeen years. Helen wants to know about what Menelaus has been through, but the wound is still too fresh, so he doesn't want to go into much detail. And who can blame him? Instead, he tells her simply that the war went on for ten years and he's been sailing around the sea, unable to reach home, for another seven after that. Helen is sympathetic and kind to Menelaus. Honestly, now that they know they're not mistaken, that the person they're each standing in front of is actually their long-lost spouse, they're both so fucking lovely to each other.
1:24:11 Liv Albert? Like, they really just missed each other, and now it's just nice to be together, to talk about what the other has gone through, to talk about how happy they are to be finally reunited. People have told me how lovely their relationship is in this play, but I think I had to read it to believe it, because, I mean, it's Helen and Menelaus. They're not exactly my go-to examples of a romantic, happy couple who's just loving and devoted. But hey, I should have more faith in Euripides, because if anyone could do it and make it believable, it is him.
1:24:43 Liv Albert? But we're only halfway into this play, so things can't stay good forever. Also, yes, I'm sorry, we're only halfway into the play in episode 3. I promise this won't be 6 episodes, 4, max. It's too good, is all. Now, though, we're nearing the drama, the excitement, the thing that will make this a Greek tragedy, and not just a romantic story of lovers reuniting.
1:25:07 Liv Albert? They begin to speak about leaving Egypt together. And for all Helen was begging him to realize who she was, for all she was dreaming of seeing Menelaus again, hoping and praying and worrying over him, now that he's here, she doesn't know how she can possibly get out of Egypt with Theoclymenus after her. Instead, she wants Menelaus to escape without her, to save himself, because if Theoclymenus were to catch them, he would certainly kill Menelaus. They talk about this for a long while, a beautiful and quick exchange of words, as Helen tries to convince Menelaus that he should run, that her fate is already tied to Theoclymenus.
1:25:51 Liv Albert? But she also tells him how bad it will be for her, that her marriage to the man would just be rape. She's very explicit, and Menelaus is horrified. He can't face the idea that he will leave her there, after finally reuniting with this Helen, the Helen who's loved him all along, like he's loved her. So, they start to plot and plan about how they could get away from Theoclymenus and Egypt together.
1:26:23 Liv Albert? There's just one big problem. Theoclymenus's sister, Theonoe, is a very powerful prophetess. She will have already seen that Menelaus is back and will see what they plan before they can even have it fully fleshed out.
1:27:09 Liv Albert? Helen and Menelaus continue to talk about how they might be able to escape Egypt together. "Maybe they could go to Theonoe before she has a chance to tell Theoclymenus that Menelaus is even in Egypt," Helen wonders. "Maybe they can persuade her not to tell him." Menelaus asks if they're able to convince her, would they then be able to leave? "With her, definitely," Helen says. "Without her, no, it would be impossible."
1:27:38 Liv Albert? "You should talk to her then," Menelaus offers, "'cause she's a woman." And Helen replies, "Well, yeah, obviously, I'll be the one to talk to her." "And what if it doesn't work?" Helen tells him that if it doesn't work, that's it. He'll die and she'll be forced to marry Theoclymenus. Which is when Menelaus reacts with a touch of his usual personality. He's not into the idea of having her marry Theoclymenus and so, instead, Helen swears that she will die if Menelaus dies. Die by the same sword that kills him and lie next to him. This is a Greek tragedy after all. We must have higher stakes, more drama and excitement, and a touch of a woman killing herself. Just the idea of it, though, hopefully.
1:28:23 Liv Albert? Still, keeping to the new Menelaus, he adds that he will do the same. "If she dies, he will die too. Because if we have to have the threat of suicide, let's at least make it equal." It's probably sad and maybe problematic to think this, but I think I still find it nice. I mean, the threat of suicide is never good, but just the idea that even in this bit, Euripides makes clear that in this play Helen and Menelaus are equals. No matter what. It's so rare that I'm forced to love it.
1:28:56 Liv Albert? And speaking of their devotion to each other and Euripides really messing with gender roles in the most satisfying and meaningful of ways, from here, Menelaus launches into his speech about what they plan to do and how it intersects with what he's already gone through.
1:29:14 Liv Albert? We'll struggle in a mighty contest, the prize is bed with you. Come one and all, I will not shame the glory won from Troy, nor when I come to Greece will I be shamed. I who robbed Phadus of her son Achilles and watched when Ajax killed himself and Nestor losing his son, then shall I flinch to die for my own wife? I will not. This equation of Helen's potential death alongside Achilles, Ajax, even Nestor's son is meaningful. Every other interpretation of the Trojan War has her as a villain, in one way or another. Sometimes a sympathetic one, sure, but always ultimately one of the reasons for the war,
1:29:58 Liv Albert? whether she liked it or not. She is no Achilles, no Ajax, no Nestor. She is Helen, the cause of all their troubles. But not here. Here Menelaus loves his wife so much that not only will he die for her, but he will die for her and equate it to the death of the best heroes of Greece. And just as the chorus chimes in to add their sympathy, to hope for an end of the curse that hangs over Menelaus's family line, Helen announces that she hears Theonoe coming out. That it's too late, she must know that Menelaus is there, but that he should hide, all the same.
1:30:39 Liv Albert? Quote, "Though you survived a barbarian Troy, you'll die upon a barbarous sword right here. I'm done for." Theonoe joins the others onstage. It's not clear whether Menelaus tries to hide, or if they determine it's futile. Theonoe's presence is very intentional and likely a juxtaposition to Cassandra. She walks onstage and owns it. She is confident and certain of herself. She is a prophetess who hasn't been affected, like Cassandra. She is still on her home soil, she holds the power, and it's impressive.
1:31:20 Liv Albert? Euripides is making her out to be someone respected, revered. She begins by speaking to her attendants of what they will do with the tomb, speaking of ritual, before she turns to Helen and says plainly, quote, "So Helen, what about my prophecies? Your husband Menelaus is right here, without his ships, without your replica."
1:31:43 Liv Albert? She goes on, she expresses sadness for Menelaus's plight, how he doesn't know whether he'll live or die, whether he'll ever reach home. She tells him that the gods will debate about his future, that even Hera, who started it all with the idol on, now hopes for Menelaus to have a safe journey home with Helen. Hera wants this because she wants the whole of Greece to know that her Helen was a fake, that the real one was never involved with Paris at all. She wants it to spite Aphrodite.
1:32:15 Liv Albert? Then Theonoe says what they're all thinking. Quote, "It's up to me whether she gets her wish. Either I tell my brother you are here and ruin you, or else I side with Hera and save your life by hiding you from him." Helen jumps in after this, begging Theonoe not to tell her brother. She reminds her of how she got there in the first place, that Proteus, Theonoe's beloved and good father, agreed to keep Helen safe during the war explicitly, so that Menelaus could come back for her after. That he agreed to this, and that it was the will of the gods.
1:32:52 Liv Albert? "Theonoe is a priestess first," Helen reminds her, "and she should adhere to the agreements of her father before the wicked machinations of her brother." She asks Theonoe to help her return home, keep her husband alive, help her get her life back in Sparta, clear her name, and help her daughter, who's now ruined by the believed actions of her mother. Help all of us, Helen is begging of Theonoe. The chorus turns to Menelaus, asking what he will say to plead for their lives. But he won't kneel, he won't beg for his life. He says that if he did that now, it would shame Troy, that he wasn't a coward then, and it would shame them if he became one now.
1:33:38 Liv Albert? It's kind of nice, this feeling like he doesn't want to shame Troy, or what's left of it. It's honorable. Instead, he says he will just say what is true. Quote, "I am a stranger and a guest. I ask for my own wife back, as is right and proper."
1:33:57 Liv Albert? Then he turns to the grave of Proteus, where all the action of the play has been taking place. He speaks directly to the dead king. He tells him everything he said to Theonoe, that he just wants his own wife back. She wants to go with him, and they have every right to be together and to be allowed to leave. Then, he adds, that if they are not permitted to leave, he will not only duel Theoclimenus to death, but if it comes to it, both he and Helen will die there, right on top of Proteus' tomb, tainting it with their blood. He tears up as he speaks of this. It isn't what he wants, but it is what they feel is necessary if it comes to it.
1:34:40 Liv Albert? But then he stops himself from crying, reminding himself to be strong now. He finishes, quote, "If you want to kill us, do it. We'll die as heroes. Better yet, obey me. Then you'll be good, and I will get my wife." And, Theonoe agrees to help them. She agrees that what they say is right. Not only is it the right thing to do, to let them leave, but it's what her father would do, and she will honor him. She adds that, "In doing this, her brother will believe that she is doing wrong, but in truth, she is turning him towards piety, forcing him to do what is right, and thus,
1:35:23 Liv Albert? it's the right thing all around." She won't help them, though, beyond this. She makes that clear. She will stand back and let them do what they need to do, and she will not tell her brother what is happening, or that Menelaus is even there, in Egypt. That is how she will help them. She adds that they should pray to Aphrodite, and then to Hera, to help them in what they need to do. To Aphrodite for their marriage, and to Hera, asking her to keep her mind where it's been decided already, to let them finally go home together.
1:36:19 Liv Albert? With Theonae confirmed to help them by keeping her mouth shut, Helen and Menelaus begin to plan how they will escape from Egypt. It won't be easy. They don't have a ship and they don't know the land well enough to escape that way, even if they were able to get a chariot to help them. Instead, Helen has an idea, which she begins by saying, "Listen, in case a woman can be smart." I'm choosing to take this as irony because this entire play up to this point has proven that women can be smart, very smart, particularly Helen, and Theonae for that matter, and even the woman at the beginning who told Menelaus to get the hell out of there. Euripides knows women can be smart, and it's proven here, because Helen's idea is this:
1:37:04 Liv Albert? What if they pretended that Menelaus had died? What if he died in name, but not in truth? Menelaus agrees, though reluctantly, seems like bad luck, but he wonders what Helen's plan is exactly, besides pretending that he's dead.
1:37:23 Liv Albert? Helen, of course, though, has thought it through, because she's an absolute badass in this play. She explains that she will mourn her husband publicly, cut her hair, tear her cheeks, and wail before the king. She will play it up. She will convince him that her husband has died. But that's not all, of course. She will also ask him to allow her to give Menelaus a proper burial. She will tell him that Menelaus died at sea and that she wishes to give him this burial at sea, that this is what she needs to do in order to be ready to marry him. But, very specifically, she will tell Theoclimenus that all burials in Greece are done at sea, and thus she must do the same for Menelaus,
1:38:07 Liv Albert? with a ship to be given by Theoclimenus for this reason. It's a good plan, and Menelaus loves it. He adds that he will have his surviving men ready, swords held high, that they'll be prepared to help in whatever way they can, and join the couple on the ship when they're needed. But, he adds, "Who will you say told you about my death?"
1:38:32 Liv Albert? You, Helen replies. Her idea is that Menelaus will pretend to be one of his own men, the sole survivor of the shipwreck that killed Menelaus and all his other men. Of course, he's already dressed like he survived a shipwreck, that's exactly what happened. All he has to do is pretend to be someone else, someone with news of the famed king of Sparta's death at sea.
1:38:56 Liv Albert? With this decided, Helen announces that she will go inside and begin. She will cut her hair and tear her cheeks while Menelaus waits outside, still by the tomb, where he will find some protection should Theocliminus find him before she has a chance to return.
1:39:15 Liv Albert? She theorizes as to how it will go. Two endings are possible, either she's caught and they will both die, or she'll succeed and they'll both finally return home. She prays to Hera and then to Aphrodite to help her with this plan. But to Aphrodite, she doesn't hold back. She doesn't seem to fear the goddess at all. A plan I'm not sure is a good one, but I don't blame her if she can't hold back. To Aphrodite, she says, quote, "You've hurt me quite enough before. You gave my name, if not my body, to barbarians. But if you want to kill me, let me die in my own country. Why are you never sated with wickedness, deceit, and tricks, and lust, and charms that spill the blood of families?
1:40:01 Liv Albert? You'd be the sweetest of the gods to humans if you were less excessive. That's the truth."
1:40:09 Liv Albert? What a fucking amazing speech, directed right at a goddess, a powerful goddess, telling her off for all her bullshit. I fucking love the way you, Peripides, handles the gods. He's not afraid of them. He sees through their bullshit and the nonsense. Honestly, sometimes these plays sound a bit like my podcast. Fuck the gods, they've been awful one too many times. With these words to Aphrodite, Helen enters the palace to prepare herself for their plan. Menelaus and the chorus are left outside, where the chorus sings a song of lamentation for the troubles the couple is facing. They sing of Helen, her sad fate; they sing of Troy, the good people destroyed by the
1:40:50 Liv Albert? Greeks; they sing of Paris, a Trojan they don't have any sympathy for; they sing of what he did, stealing the false Helen away and bringing her to a foreign land, destroying her marriage, all led by Aphrodite.
1:41:07 Liv Albert? Then they sing of the war, the grief and sadness, the dead Greeks, the cliffs and the sea, the false prize that was Helen's idol on; they sing of Menelaus's travels, how he ended up getting stuck there in Egypt; they sing, quote, "What mortal can think it all through and explain what is God, what is not God, and what is in between?" Ugh, good line! Once more they sing of Helen's parentage, how Zeus forced her mother Leda in the form of a swan; they sing of her reputation in Greece, quote, "treacherous, trustless, immoral, and godless."
1:41:51 Liv Albert? They sing of war broadly, quote, "They're fools who win glory in war by stabbing and thrusting with spears, stupidly seeking an end to their labors in death. If the contest of blood is the judge, there will never be an end to the conflicts between cities, between humans."
1:42:12 Liv Albert? It's clear, Euripides is speaking of all wars now, just the idea of them, the way humans always need to fight one another to the death, how blood seems to be always the answer.
1:42:27 Liv Albert? "Like lightning from Zeus, the fire of killing fell down on the walls, and you must bear pain upon pain, poor suffering woman. We pity your life."
1:42:41 Liv Albert? And, when the chorus finishes their song with this line, "We finally meet the tyrant king of Egypt, the reason for their continued sadness, their continued fear and grief." Theoclymenus walks onstage.
1:43:30 Liv Albert? This is episode 176, "The Ancient Heist You Never Knew You Needed: Euripides's Helen."
1:43:51 Liv Albert? Theoclymenus joins the chorus onstage at the entrance to his palace, where he's placed his father, Proteus's tomb, so that he can see it whenever he comes or goes. And, well, from the very first lines he speaks, we learn what he's about. He's outside the palace with his hunting dogs and all his gear. He's got a Greek to hunt. He says that he's learned from past mistakes, where he didn't always punish people with death, and he's going to make up for it. He's heard there's a Greek in town, and that Greek must die.
1:44:26 Liv Albert? Then he continues his dramatic introduction by noticing that Helen is no longer by Proteus's tomb. She's been there for a while, so he assumes that means she's been abducted. Taken away from him, rather, where she already doesn't want to be. It's complicated, you remember? There's also some real othering going on here, though I wonder if Euripides is making a real statement on so-called barbarians, i.e. not Greeks, or simply inventing some exaggerated character in Theoclymenus? But let's be honest, it's probably some commentary that has origins in bigotry. He doesn't make Egyptians look good. Theoclymenus is having a time.
1:45:07 Liv Albert? He's there to hunt a human and he's just found out that the human he's keeping captive in order to force her into marriage is missing. He's got a lot going on when he notices Menelaus. He notices Menelaus, a Greek, the type of person he's there to hunt. But then, alongside Menelaus, he finally sees Helen. But she's changed. She's in mourning. She's changed her clothes and her hair. Meeting the actor had a full costume change. A wig and a mask change, the whole thing. Not something that usually happens. It's dramatic in itself.
1:45:51 Liv Albert? Helen begins to tell Theoclymenus why she's in mourning. She's deferential to him too, making a real big deal of calling him "master." She's trying to butter him up, make him really feel for her. She explains that it's all over, she might as well give up everything now. Menelaus is dead. She tells him that Theonoe told her this and that someone who witnessed it all, who saw Menelaus die, also told her of his fate. And, quote, "May that man go where I would wish."
1:46:30 Liv Albert? Ah, ugh. The translator here, Emily Wilson, by the way, has a note about this line. "It's dramatic irony at its best." Theoclymenus hears this and he thinks Helen wishes that that man who told her of Menelaus's death would go to the underworld, would die, for what he's told her. But she's really hoping he'll simply go to Greece, because he's Menelaus. Did you get that? Did I have to over explain it? Here we are. Helen and Theoclymenus continue to speak of what Helen has learned. He asks where that man is, the man who told her about Menelaus's death, to which she replies that, "Well, he's right here."
1:47:12 Liv Albert? Theoclymenus believes it, particularly due to that man's disgusting clothing. Why? He looks like he's been shipwrecked. Yes, Theoclymenus, well spotted.
1:47:23 Liv Albert? Here, I like to consider what exactly Menelaus looks like, where he's obviously been shipwrecked. There was a tweet going around a while back that was basically like he rolls up to his long-lost wife wearing nothing but a fishnet. And frankly, I'm here for it, at least with this Menelaus. Helen explains to Theoclymenus how it was that Menelaus died, quote, "A dreadful death beneath the salty waves."
1:47:55 Liv Albert? They speak of this wreck, of how this man, this Greek, Menelaus who's pretending not to be Menelaus, survived the wreckage when no one else did.
1:48:08 Liv Albert? "They were wrecked in the Libyan Sea," she explains, "and this man who brought her the news was simply lucky. Sometimes it's all down to luck."
1:48:20 Liv Albert? Theoclymenus really grills her on the details here, asking how this man arrived in Egypt, where the fragments of the ship are, he asks about the idolon, what's happened to her. They speak of the fall of Troy, all for nothing. It's lengthy, this discussion between the two, but what it serves to show is just how prepared Helen is for this line of questioning. She is the mastermind of the whole plot. Menelaus is just kind of there, a body serving a purpose, but the woman has all the smarts, all the cunning. She's handling the whole damn thing, and it's awesome.
1:49:03 Liv Albert? Finally, they get to the question of burial. "Did this man, this survivor, did he bury Menelaus?" Theoclymenus asks her. "No," she tells him. "It's horrible. He's not been buried at all." "And this is why you're in mourning?" he asks her. He seems to think that now Menelaus is confirmed dead, that Helen's entire opinion on everything should change. "There's no need to mourn your dead husband. She's got the king of Egypt right here." But no, Helen presses, she is in mourning. She loved her husband.
1:49:44 Liv Albert? This exchange between Helen and Theoclymenus is really something. He's a lot, this guy. She tells him that she intends to stay true to her husband, to which he replies, "Why do you tease me? He's dead. Let him go." He seems to actually believe she'll just want to marry him now, that all that stood in the way was Menelaus and not, say, the fact that he was trying to force her and that she didn't actually care for him at all. But whatever, I guess. It makes Helen's plan all the more simple. "Fine," she says, "begin the wedding plans then, but on one condition, you have to let me bury my husband."
1:50:45 Liv Albert? "I'll marry you, finally, if you just let me bury my husband," Helen tells Theoclymenus, grasping at him in supplication. She's really selling it. She wants him to trust her, to trust that all she wants to do is bury Menelaus, and then it's all over. They'll get married and live, well, something ever after. He replies, quote, "Can absent shadows get a burial?"
1:51:14 Liv Albert? Huh, good line. But Helen has an explanation. She tells Theoclymenus about the Greek customs, mostly invented ones for this purpose. That it's customary, if someone dies at sea, to bury them in an empty cloth. Symbolic. It's closure.
1:51:34 Liv Albert? "Sure, whatever, just build a mound of earth somewhere," Theoclymenus tells her. But no, she pushes, "That's not how it works. They must bury him at sea."
1:51:45 Liv Albert? I like to imagine he lets out a big, petulant sigh right here, seems within his character. Theoclymenus says, "Okay, fine. What do you need?" And here is when Menelaus, who's pretending not to be Menelaus, comes into play. Helen directs Theoclymenus to him, saying that she doesn't know everything they need. It's her first loss. But this man, this man from Menelaus's crew who witnessed it all, he will have the answers. And so, Menelaus, who's pretending not to be Menelaus, explains, basically having the chance to get everything he needs to make their escape happen, just hand it to him. "First, we must spill blood, a sacrifice," he says. Theoclymenus agrees.
1:52:30 Liv Albert? "Anything they need? Any animal preference?" "No, no, no, just something that needs to die. Gotta keep those gods happy, right?" From there, they need a beer, something that will carry the body if there were a body. Then, bronze weapons, you know, because he loved war.
1:52:47 Liv Albert? Theoclymenus is here for all of it. Given what Helen is asking for and their hidden intentions, it's kind of hilarious how easily this guy is like, "Yeah, sure, totally. Let me give you literally any and everything you need to escape from me and even defend yourselves while you do." Because he says, quote, "I'll give him arms worthy of Pelops's people. Literally, I'll give you weapons as good as ones you would have had at home." Phew, next up, well, they need a ship. And of course, if you thought this was when Theoclymenus would put his foot down and say, "Hey, you know, this smells a little fishy." Fishy, get it? No. He doesn't question it. "Oh, you need a ship? Cool. How far out to sea does it need to be able to go?"
1:53:31 Liv Albert? Oh, Menelaus, who's pretending not to be Menelaus, says, "We need to go so far out that you won't be able to see the ship's wake from the shore." Hmm. And why is that? Theoclymenus asks. "Well, isn't it obvious?" Menelaus, who's not Menelaus, says, "We don't want any pollution to be washed back to the shore. Duh. In this case, there's no body, so... Anyway, that's fine, Theoclymenus says. You'll have a swift Phoenician ship, and with oars, too." He's literally telling them they can have everything they need to escape. Easy peasy, no questions asked. I am starting to love Theoclymenus for this alone. And it gets better.
1:54:16 Liv Albert? With all of this promise to Menelaus, who's not Menelaus, all in order to bury, well, Menelaus, Theoclymenus finally asks the important question. Does all of this have to happen with Helen? Can't you do it without her? "No," he's told. "It is the job of the wife to lay her husband to rest. And don't you want a pious wife?" "Oh, yes, yes," Theoclymenus says. "I want a pious wife." Phew, she must take part, then, in this very sketchy act that definitely sounds like the perfect way to escape Egypt and get all the way back to Sparta without issue. Okay, fine, he doesn't say all that. He's not paying attention? He's naive?
1:55:01 Liv Albert? Straight up ridiculous? In any event, Theoclymenus simply agrees that he wants a pious wife, so yes, obviously, Helen must partake in this ritual out at sea in a very fast ship.
1:55:15 Liv Albert? And for good measure, he promises Menelaus, who's pretending not to be Menelaus, that he'll be given new clothes and food for his journey home, all in thanks for having helped Helen, and thus helped Theoclymenus.
1:55:33 Liv Albert? And finally, to cap it all off, Menelaus now turns to Helen, once Theoclymenus has promised all of this, and he says, quote, "Your job, young lady, is to let go the husband who isn't here and love the one who is."
1:55:52 Liv Albert? Good one, Menelaus, who's pretending not to be Menelaus. You're charming as fuck. Not so subtle, though.
1:56:26 Liv Albert? From here, the chorus sings of none other than Demeter and her tragic search for her daughter Persephone, abducted by the god of the underworld in secret, leaving her mother to grieve and search and grieve and search. Honestly, these choral odes are unbelievable. Thinking of releasing a short bonus episode that's just me reading them to you from a copyright-free translation, because the first one doesn't show up until line 1110, which is honestly absurd for a Greek tragedy, just so unique and meaningful. And that one, and this next one, tell such explicitly detailed and beautiful stories, metaphors for what's happening in the play, but unique stories
1:57:11 Liv Albert? unto themselves. Oh, they're so good.
1:57:16 Liv Albert? But we must move on. From here, Helen returns to the chorus to relay what's gone on inside. And remember, these choral odes are often used to convey the passage of time. Let the audience know that the plot is moving along and we're about to be told of what we've missed. Helen tells the chorus that they've passed another couple of hurdles, gotten steps closer now to their escape. Theonoe, the prophetess and the king's sister, has helped them. She told Theoclimenus that Menelaus wasn't there, that he was dead. Then Helen helped Menelaus, who's not Menelaus. She bathed him, and boy, did he need it. There's some innuendo there, yes.
1:57:59 Liv Albert? She gave him fresh clothes and now he has the weapons too. But before she can finish speaking, she has to hush her voice and beg the chorus not to reveal her secrets. Theoclimenus is approaching. She tells the chorus, who are enslaved Greek women themselves, that if they help her now and keep quiet, she and Menelaus will escape and save the women too, someday.
1:58:24 Liv Albert? Yes, she uses the word someday. They're definitely an afterthought here. But such is the role of the chorus. They're there to move the plot along. We can't think too much about, well, the real people they're portraying. Plus, Theoclimenus is back on the stage and he's there to, just briefly, attempt to fuck things up for Helen and Menelaus. See, he's concerned. He's concerned that if she goes on the ship to mourn her husband and to pay her respects, as they've planned, that, quote, "I'm afraid you'll get the sudden urge to hurl yourself into the swelling waves, struck by affection for your former husband. You mourn too much for him, though he's not here." Love the idea that she could instead mourn for him if he were there?
1:59:08 Liv Albert? Like, that he is dead or supposedly dead is kinda the point of the mourning. But not to worry, Helen's there to reassure him. Helen is incredibly, wonderfully good at convincing Theoclymenus of everything he needs to hear in order to let them escape. I love her. She tells him that she does need to honor him, honor Menelaus there on this ship, but that he shouldn't worry about her wanting to join him. What good would that do? But she adds for good measure that she asks the gods to bless this stranger who's there to help her. I, you know, her husband Menelaus who's pretending not to be her husband Menelaus?
1:59:50 Liv Albert? They'll take any excuse to make a subtle jab at Theoclymenus's gullibility. Any opportunity to do a bit of a wink, wink, nudge, nudge, like, hey, audience, isn't this fun? It's Menelaus all along and we're tricking Theoclymenus into making it as easy as humanly possible for us to be together and get the fuck out of Egypt. She tells Theoclymenus, quote, "You'll find me just the kind of wife I should be. When you've done this good turn to Menelaus and me, yes, everything will turn out well."
2:00:25 Liv Albert? One thing that Ash pointed out in her notes of this play, thanks to Ash as always, is that something that comes across here is the personalities, thoughts, and motivations of the characters. That you can really tell they're real people. There's subtle joking, nods at the truth of what's happening that Theoclymenus remains completely unaware of. You can see the thoughts going on in Helen's head, her planning, her happiness at having Menelaus back and the relief of having a good plan to get the fuck out of there. The way she keeps Theoclymenus happy, believing that she's staying for him, that she'll marry him.
2:01:04 Liv Albert? All the while, they do this with incredibly brilliant and even funny dialogue, lots of irony, drama, just everything. The dialogue in this play is so good.
2:01:17 Liv Albert? And all of that keeps going because they have to finalize the plan here. Theoclymenus confirms to Helen and Metaleus that this man he believes to be not Metaleus will have complete control of the ship he's giving them. Complete control. Helen asks that he confirm, double confirm even, that all of the crew of the ship knows to obey this man without question. They're really covering all their bases here and Theoclymenus is making it seriously easy. He is a very trusting man, which is odd, given he's been given no indication that Helen has any affection for him. But then I guess that's the power of Helen's beauty, isn't it?
2:02:02 Liv Albert? He even promises, quote, "I'll be as good a husband as your first." If we didn't know that he had been pursuing Helen against her will, that she'd been forced to run and hide from him, I almost feel for the guy. Theoclymenus begins to direct his servants to prepare for the wedding, to bring gifts to the palace, to tell all of Egypt to begin the celebrations. Their king is getting married. Quote, "May our marriage be admired and envied." And then he says to Metaleus, who's not Metaleus, quote, "And stranger, when you've gone to give these gifts to Helen's former husband, deep in ocean, then take my wife
2:02:45 Liv Albert? and hurry her back home. You are invited to my wedding feast. Then you may go back home or stay with pleasure." He says, "Take my wife." Turns out all it took was Helen agreeing to marry him and now he suddenly doesn't hate all Greeks after all. Metaleus makes a final call to the gods for luck, for help in escaping, just a plea to for once have things go all right for them. And with that, he leaves with Helen. They're off to perform the funeral rites from Metaleus, or rather, they're off to make their escape from Egypt with all that Theoclymenus has given them.
2:03:30 Liv Albert? And he's given them a lot. And so the chorus sings.
2:03:55 Liv Albert? The chorus sings of the sea. They sing of Nereus, the old man of the sea, of ships that sail upon it, specifically the Phoenician ship set to take Helen and Menelaus away from Egypt, home to Sparta. They sing of dolphins dancing through the water, of the depths of the blue Mediterranean. They sing of Helen returning home to Sparta, of all the celebrations that will take place, of returning to their daughter Hermione. And finally, they sing of Helen's brothers, the Dersguri, the twins Castor and Polydeuces,
2:04:37 Liv Albert? the twins that make their home on Olympus now, with the gods, among the gods, as deities themselves. The twins have helped Helen before, too, saved her from that menace, that horror show, Theseus. Quote, "Saviors of Helen dash over the green sea waves and over the blue gray surging of the dark salt water. Send fresh gusts to blow for the sailors and take from your sister her shame for barbarian beds, the shame that she got through the strife on Mount Ida, though she never went
2:05:22 Liv Albert? to the city of Troy and the towers of Apollo."
2:05:28 Liv Albert? And then, a messenger joins Theoclimenus onstage. "Helen is gone," he tells him. The messenger tries to explain what's happened. Helen is gone. She's been taken away from Egypt by her own husband, Menelaus, who was there to bring news of his own death. They fled by sea."
2:05:54 Liv Albert? And, well, Theoclimenus doesn't get it. "How did they get away?" he asks. "How did they get a ship?"
2:06:05 Liv Albert? I mean, you gave them one, the messenger replies, though he does try to be tactful. And then the story is told. Messengers are always there to tell the stories of actions, action that can't take place on the stage but must be relayed afterward. It's a trope of Greek tragedy, and it's lovely. This messenger tells of the ship, of how the Egyptians who were sent by Theoclymenes to help with the funeral rites, how they prepared the ship for sail, how when it was ready, they spotted some men on the shore, men who looked shipwrecked, how Menelaus called to those men, "Oh, you poor men, your ship must have crashed. You look to be Greek. You should join us in our funeral for Menelaus. You've surely heard his name?"
2:06:51 Liv Albert? And so those Greek men came on board, and the Egyptians remained silent. They'd been specifically instructed by Theoclymenes to take their orders from the man they didn't know was Menelaus, and they took those orders. So they set sail, and when they were far enough from land, they stopped for direction by this man who was leading them. "This is it," he said, and prepared to sacrifice the bull that was brought on board. But he didn't sacrifice it for Menelaus for his funeral. Instead, he sacrificed it and spoke to Poseidon and the daughters of Nereus, to all the sea gods that he could muster,
2:07:33 Liv Albert? and he asked them to bring him and his wife Helen, as he revealed himself to be Menelaus, that they bring them home safely to Greece, to the harbor at Naphleia.
2:07:47 Liv Albert? With a final call from Menelaus, the Greeks who'd been brought on board turned on Theoclymenes's Egyptian men. A battle broke out on the deck of the ship, with Helen cheering them on.
2:08:02 Liv Albert? The messenger explains that he escaped. He scaled the side of the ship when the fighting started and he drifted in the water until he was found by a fisherman, brought back to the shore where he could tell Theoclymenus this dreadful, tragic story. They've lost Helen. She's already on her way back home to Greece with her husband, Manoleus, at her side. "No, no, no! I've been caught by the schemes of women!" is a quote Theoclymenus's first words after this news, after, that is, the chorus steps in to say that they had no idea what was going on. He speaks of how he would have gone after them, but it's too late. He
2:08:46 Liv Albert? must face that he won't marry Helen, but, he adds, he can punish his sister, Theonoe, for her role in the deception. He goes to find her, but the chorus steps in. They seem to physically stop him from hunting down Theonoe, from hurting her. It seems unique to me that the chorus plays such an active role in this plot, let alone attempts to prevent a murder. They even offer to die for her. But they don't have to, because it's Deus Ex fucking Machina time. Gods in the machine. The gods are here to finish things up, to tie a bow on this story of escape, this heist.
2:09:26 Liv Albert? Helen's brothers, the Deos Gori, Castor and Polydoukes, deities sacred to Sparta, they arrive there on the stage. Only Castor speaks, which I think is Euripides personally doing me a favor because of how much I hate trying to say his brother's name, but both are there, probably hanging over the stage held up by the badassery that was the ancient Greek theater's crane, just hovering, floating over the stage, being fucking badass Spartan gods. Quote, "Restrain your rage. Don't get too carried away, King Theoclymenus."
2:10:07 Liv Albert? Castor introduces himself and his brother, explains that they're the sons of Leda, brothers to Helen. He explains that this marriage was not meant to be. It wasn't in the cards. That Theonoe isn't to blame. She didn't wrong you. She only did what was right. What your own father Proteus agreed to when Helen arrived on Egyptian shores seventeen years earlier. It was all destiny, Castor tells Theoclimenus. Then, they speak to Helen, wherever she is on the waves of the sea sailing off. They tell her that they will be there alongside her for her journey, to keep her safe and
2:10:51 Liv Albert? make sure she and Menelaus do return home to Sparta, safe and sound. They tell her that, in the end, she too will be a goddess, so says Zeus himself, and that even Menelaus will be allowed to live in the islands of the blessed, where the heroes go when they die. Quote, "The gods do not despise those who are noble, although they suffer more than the masses do." Theoclimenus responds. He's been convinced by these gods. He tells them that he will accept that he isn't to marry Helen, that he isn't still angry even with his own sister.
2:11:32 Liv Albert? And then, for good measure, he once again announces how perfect and chaste Helen is. Because for all her strength and personality, this play is about her chastity. How she held on and waited for her husband to return. How she stayed true. The last lines of the play are by the chorus. Quote, "Spirits take on many forms, and gods create a multitude of surprises. Things we expect don't come to pass, and gods find ways towards the unexpected." That's how this story went.
2:12:24 Liv Albert? Oh nerds, thank you so much for coming along on this very Euripides-ian ride. Fucking Euripides, fucking Greek tragedy, fucking Helen. I could go on and on, but I must stop, for all our sakes. Gotta keep the show fresh, I suppose. But if we're up to me at this point, it would just be a Euripides show. This play is so interesting on so many different levels. It's explicitly about Helen being a good woman, a pure woman, who waits for her husband, who loves her husband and stays true to him. But it's also about the horrors of war. And what I'm interested in is, it's about a strong woman who saves herself. Like Menelaus may arrive just in time, but he doesn't rescue Helen. He's just there to help. He's the sidekick.
2:13:08 Liv Albert? Helen rescues Helen. And she rescues Menelaus, for that matter. It's all her plan, her idea. It's she who convinces Theoclymenus. It's all Helen. It's all about the brilliance and devotion of this woman who is most famous for being silent and demure while a horror show of a war is raging in her name. A woman who famously is without agency in every other source, who everything happens to and because of. And now suddenly here's Euripides to take all that back and turn Helen into a completely different and spell-bindingly unique character.
2:13:46 Liv Albert? Fuck, I love this play.
2:13:49 Liv Albert? As always with these plays, huge thanks to Ash Strain for their research. She is always so immensely helpful and puts so much work and detail into their notes. I'm so appreciative. Also, one thing I realize I haven't actually said out loud, though it's been in the episode's descriptions, is that I've been working off a translation by none other than Emily Wilson. You remember Emily Wilson, of the absolutely incredible translation of The Odyssey? Yeah, she's seriously good, and I've been absolutely obsessed with this translation throughout. It's so readable and accessible while also being so poetic and beautiful. Highly recommend. It's found in this big collection just called The Greek Plays, published by the Modern Library. It's awesome, and there are a number of her translations in there, among other great ones. If you're looking for just like one book of Greek plays, this is it.
2:14:35 Liv Albert? I'm also happy to say that on Friday, you're gonna have a conversation episode about this amazing play. I spoke with C.W. Marshall, who literally wrote the book on Euripides' Helen. We talked back in April before I'd even read the play, and the conversation is basically why I knew I had to read it and cover it on the show. Little did I know that it would be four episodes because I am ridiculous. Anyway, we had such a good time and I learned so much about the background and context of this play, all the different bits and pieces. Euripides broadly, including some interesting details about his fragmentary play too, The Andromeda, which was produced alongside the Helen. Fascinating stuff. I just know you guys are going to love that episode.
2:15:15 Liv Albert? There's so much to learn about the production and background of Greek tragedy, so much that I don't know remotely enough about. So I'm always thrilled to have these amazing scholars on to share their knowledge. Stay tuned for that. Let's talk about Myths, Baby, is written and produced by me, Liv Albert. Michaela Smith is the Hermes to my Olympians and handles so many podcast-related things, from running the YouTube to creating promotional images and videos, to editing and research and so, so, so much more. Stephanie Foley works to transcribe the podcast for YouTube captions and accessibility. The podcast is hosted and monetized by Acast. Thank you all so much. I am Liv and I love this shit.
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