"You Can Say Anything" (w/ Matt & Bowen)

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• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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  Season four of Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is here.

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  Listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions now on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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  Do you want to know the secret to life? It's Depop, and by life, I mean affordable fashion.

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  We've been talking about Cupi Mayo for a minute now, and wow, so many of you already love this stuff.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  And if you're thinking, wait, what is Cupi? Do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise, the one with the red cap.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  What makes it different? Egg yolks. Cupi is made with egg yolks only, giving it this rich umami flavor that elevates everything.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Chefs use it, restaurants use it, where chefs work, of course. Food and flavor lovers use it.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  You haven't tried it yet? Well, find the red cap and see what everyone's talking about, why don't you? Cupi, the original Japanese mayonnaise. Cupi. Hey, everybody, it's me, Matt, and my tour is on sale now. This time, it's really Christmas. You can go to www.mattrogersofficial.com. Podcasts are a visual medium. If you're not watching me right now, I am holding in my hands my vinyl. It's called Have You Heard of Christmas? The answer to that question is coming. At this time, it's really Christmas. I'm playing all over the country, and in London, and in Canada. That makes it a world tour. Harry Styles, you're on burn notice. I'll see you soon.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  I'll watch. You can see everything again.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Again.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  In duration.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Ran to pee at the two-hour mark. Never, never put my dick away faster.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Ran back. Just, I was like, I can't miss any of this.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  No washing hands on today.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  It's fine.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  It's sterile. It's sterile. Pee is sterile.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Pee is sterile. You're gonna love it.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  You're gonna love it.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Look, Matt. Where? Oh, I see. Wow. Why? Bowen, look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness. Wow.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Las Culturistas. Ding dong, Las Culturistas calling. You think?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Oh, there's not enough time to explain.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  There's a lot of lore that's already happened today. We lost the audio. We had this whole beginning of the podcast where...

• 3:05Speaker 02

  It was so good.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Bowen had said that I was looking cute today before the podcast. Cutie. And then I said, we did ding dong, Las Culturistas calling, and then I said, you think?

• 3:16Speaker 02

  Right, as, you know, kind of...

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Which kind of put it on me to sort of bring people up to speed on what you were referring to.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  You were put upon.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Talk about being put upon.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I think, aren't we all in our everyday lives? There's nothing special about that situation.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  It's funny how we started the episode before when we had the other audio in like a confusing way for the audience, and now this is still confusing.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Speaking of things that are confusing for the audience.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  You can see everything. Well, let's table that for now, but unless the title of EP gives it away, like, I think we'll spend a lot of time talking about this. This is the movie of the moment.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  It's the movie of the moment, and we actually, this isn't our first conversation about it, because actually, behind the scenes, we have a full friendship outside of this.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  And we were on our way to an event last night, and we even endeavored to say, the title of this app could be You Can Say Anything.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Which is a great title. Wow, a few errant claps from the peanut gallery over there.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  You can say anything, which is the complete inverse of what is always said these days by, you know, certain comedians or culture folks going, you can't say anything these days.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Everyone's addicted to...

• 4:33Speaker 02

  You can't.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Their limitations.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm addicted to mine.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. If you're not addicted to your limitations, you're not living in the year of our Lord 2026.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  And that's a rule of culture.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Rule of culture number 30. If you're not addicted to your limitations, you're not living in the year of our Lord 2026. You know, it's interesting that we say you can say anything, because last night we went to an event, a cultural event, where they sang everything.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Everything.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  And now, that was your first time at the opera?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  First time at the opera. We went to the opening of Lincoln at the Bardo.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Lincoln at the Bardo, the novel by George Saunders. He was there with his lovely family. We got to sit at a dinner table with him.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  This was the table?

• 5:14Speaker 02

  This was the table. George Saunders, Paula Saunders, their lovely children, Caitlin and Elena Saunders. And then, let's see, we had Mustafa the poet, wonderful poet,

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Amy Poehler, our beefing podcast rival, Amy Poehler.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  And don't worry, we settled things.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  We quashed the beef.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  We squashed the beef.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Squashed or quashed? I never know.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  I think it's squashed.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Is it squashed or quashed?

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Squashed.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Squash the beef.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Then I'm sorry.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  If it was quash the beef this whole time, quash the beef, now it sounds like illicit.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Like, I was quashing beef all night last night.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Now, what could that mean?

• 5:59Speaker 01

  I think you know exactly what it means. Don't be obtuse.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Quashing beef, to me, feels like when, you know, it's a little soft on the way in, and it just sort of...

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Excuse you?

• 6:13Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Are you being crude and crass?

• 6:15Speaker 02

  I am. We get to do that on this...

• 6:16Speaker 01

  You can say anything.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  As you can say anything.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  I guess you can say anything on this podcast.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  As you said, when we were announced to stream non-exclusively on Hulu and Disney+ we will still be talking about anal.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  I will not curtail. And Ina said to me, she said to my DMs, she goes, can't wait to hear from them about this. I was like, well, you might be hearing from them regularly.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Because I'll tell you what.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Ina, you're not new to this.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Las Cult is not changing for Hulu, okay?

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  No, you didn't suggest that, and...

• 6:50Speaker 01

  She reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's a great defense to pretend to be ignorant.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  You're a Holmes figure.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  You thought that we weren't gonna apply what we saw in the film. You can see everything to our situation, but we are going to.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  We are absolutely going to.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  I feel so persecuted. I'm obsessed with the limitation that we have now.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Okay, we quashed the beef, but we squashed, I'm sorry, we squashed the beef with Amy.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  The final two people at our table were, yes, you guessed it.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  The hottest people in the world.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Dua Lipa and Callum Turner. And there was a moment where we're sitting across from them, and Callum looks to us, and he goes, how are you guys? It's great to see you. You both look very handsome.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Callum, he knows exactly what he's doing.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  And he knows exactly what he's doing, and I just looked at him and I said, well, I could say the same, sir. And everyone just laughed. He is so hot that it's funny.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  Well, they both are. Like, I couldn't...

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Forget about Dua. I mean, she is...

• 7:49Speaker 02

  I couldn't look at either of them for longer than 0.5 milliseconds.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  It's impossible to look at them. They are the hottest people in the world. It's the biggest feast of the ice.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  On this podcast.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Do you remember that day?

• 8:02Speaker 02

  I remember that day.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  She came in, she was so stunning, when she didn't know what Epcot was?

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Oh, my god. A recurring theme on this podcast, Epcot. But, and what were you doing all night but resisting the urge, your own limitations?

• 8:18Speaker 01

  What?

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Of singing songs, not from future nostalgia, but from Radical Optimism, an album that I said is my favorite Dua Lipa album, and I stand by that 10 toes down.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Here's what I'm gonna say. My favorite Dua Lipa album is Future Nostalgia, but I think that Radical Optimism is right there. It's one of those things that people reacted to too quickly.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. And I got, whatever, I stand by it. And that's all you have to do these days. You can say anything if you stand by it.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  100%. As long as you stand 10 toes down and three inches higher off the ground. I'm pointing to Bowen's lifted shoe.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  This is three inches? Okay.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  I'd say this is about two.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Let me see. Let me do the inch trick. One.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  It's one and a half.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  It's one and a half.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Hmm. Almost like you've been in cahoots with our producers to appear taller.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  You have been lying to the public.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  I've never told a lie in my life. Um, wait, should we, let's talk.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Let's get into it.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  The opera was fabulous.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Oh, we loved it.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  I got to tell George Saunders that he's one of my favorite writers ever and he.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Also, it was Lincoln at the Bardot, so it was huge for you, a Mary Todd, to be there.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Conrad, Rick and Maura was there.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  He was in a big fashion sweater.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  A sweater that he says he wears in the house, which would you know is authentic.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  No, liar.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  No, come on.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  He doesn't wear that in the house. He wore his fashion sweater to the Met.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  With his gorgeous husband.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Gorgeous. Honest Abe, me thinks no. It's actually really good. Your number four. Honest Abe, me thinks no.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  My gripe with that, um.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Being closeted is lying.

• 10:01Speaker 02

  Being closeted is lying. My gripe with that show is that, um, the Mary Todd representation was, she wore a pink dress. I'll spoil it.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  And it felt wrong to me.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  I, yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  It felt very wrong.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  I guess, yeah, I don't think Mary Todd historically, a figure that is known for like her pops of color. You know what I mean? More for like her mania.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Her mania. Her BPD. Or bipolar, I'm sorry.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Don't do that. You cannot come out here and self diagnose.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm not.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Do not do it.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  I'm sorry.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  We are at max with self diagnosis.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  We are, we might be.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Did you hear about this?

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Yes. Talk about it.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Like as if it was big news. No, I was just, I was watching an interview with someone.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  You guys hear about this?

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Did you hear about this? Did you hear about this one? We can't self diagnose anymore.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Guess we have to go to a medical professional.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Now you gotta go to a doctor to get a diagnosis. Back in my day, you could say anything. You could diagnose yourself with ADHD autism.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  Now you gotta go through a patient portal.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  I have to go in the patient portal and the waiting's not over. You have to, if you think that all your work is done and all your waiting is done on the patient portal, you're gonna hate going to the doctor's office.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Office where they confirm.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  What I already knew.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  What I already knew. They go, are these the medications you're currently taking? I go, don't show me my.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  I go, well, are they on the screen, honey? It's right on the screen.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  I typed that in myself.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  I, why am I repeating myself? And then they tell you, they look down and they say, we think you have ADHD. You go, okay, yeah, I could have.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Could have done that myself.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  Could have self diagnosed.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  All I had to do was log on the internet and see millions just like me self diagnosing.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Speaking of, well, I guess there's no self diagnosis.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Well, I think that she really wants everyone to diagnose her with autism because that would be an amazing defense.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Elizabeth Holmes?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's get into it.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  This is the thing. Autism does not absolve you.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Well, I think that, okay, so, and by the way, so we're getting into it right now and I also understand that.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  This is not everywhere.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Do you want to speak to your experience right now? Because, because.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Would you like to leave the room?

• 12:08Speaker 03

  Well, I'm seeing the movie tomorrow and I was dreading this part.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Do you, do you, you want to, you want to take a lap?

• 12:19Speaker 01

  So I walk in today, one of our camera ops was like, he goes, you said, I'm so nervous about spoilers. And I thought, oh, he means like the world.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  No, you're talking about us.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  What you mean is us. And so, yeah.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  I have a question about your algorithm. Is it spoiler free so far?

• 12:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Really?

• 12:38Speaker 02

  Meanwhile, mine is inundated.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing is it's like, honestly, and that's kind of why I feel like, and you know, at this point, when this episode has been released, it will be out for a week. It is monoculture. This is as close as we're gonna get.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Say so. And I, but I also very much, you can honestly, I think the camera's not, we're not gonna whack it.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  It would be fine.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  It would be fine if you left.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  No, no, this is my job.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  No.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  This is his job.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  But we're giving you.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't mind. Like, you guys gotta be okay.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Honestly, we, so basically, we want everyone to know, and you guys.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  And this is, this is just.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  This just goes to show how, how, what a cultural event this is.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  No, we don't, we don't want this to, Rachel, have you seen it? Okay.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Okay, great. So is everyone in here, is everyone in here good if we sort of, thank you.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Of course, Trevor.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  And we'll see you in a little while. And what we want to.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Keep this all in the, in the cut, by the way.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  All right. Great. I just want everyone to know that I'm gonna jump in from the future right now and I'm gonna tell you when exactly. You can tune back into this episode if you are not interested in spoilers. We are gonna talk about it because we can't not.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  We can't not.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  And enjoy me from the future now telling you information.

• 14:01Speaker 04

  Hi, everyone. This is producer Becca from the future, jumping in to let you know that if you want to skip spoilers for Nathan Fielder's, you can see everything. Jump to around the 50 minute mark. That should clear you of all spoilers. And if anything, save this episode to come back to after you've seen it. All right. Bye bye.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  We're back.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  We're back.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  So I hope you enjoyed me from the future. Let's talk.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Okay. To me, I mean, this is just my algorithm. I'm just like, well, everything's been said that needs to be said about it. But that's just, but I mean.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Imagine you go, and that's why I'm not saying anything.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Discuss it. Trevor, come back. No, um, I, I think that's one of, I mean, this is recency bias. Sure, whatever.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  I've been a Nathan Fielder fan since the beginning. It's so funny, the, this, the clip that Billy Evans showed Elizabeth Holmes to convince her to have him do this, that like the funny clip at the gas station, I knew exactly what episode that was. It was the scavenger hunt on the mountain.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Um, for the rebate at the gas station where the gas station owner goes into this wild left turn about drinking his grandson's pee. This, which is the perfect distillation of Nathan Fielder's sort of style, which is to compare to John Wilson, which we've talked about, it's like, it is in some ways, I will say this with love and fandom and admiration for Nathan Fielder, it's a little cynical. It's a little bit cynical, I think.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  The way he kind of trains the lens on, let's say, quote unquote, like a regular person, which Elizabeth Holmes and Billy Evans are not.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  And yet even that, like, he's, he's used to this. He's good at this. He's good at, he's good at talking to people of all kinds.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  I completely understand what he means now when he says, impressed that he's like, I still don't know what happened to me.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's because, my take on Elizabeth Holmes is that two things can be true. And I think many things are true with her. I think she is a person who's been through something that it would be very difficult to wrap your head around the magnitude of how far her story has traveled, what she has done, what she's responsible for, and the repercussions of all of those things. I also think she is in an emotionally abusive relationship. I also think she is manipulating in the mastermind of this entire thing.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  I don't think that should, and this is my thing, I don't think that should be the question that audiences walk away from being like, wow, should I sympathize with her? Should I, no. I don't think so.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Well, it, here's the thing. It is a testament to Nathan Fielder, because I agree with you.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  But it is a testament to Nathan Fielder and what this film is actually about is, and it speaks to other things we've been talking about. And we were discussing how the year is circling a theme. It is about platform. It is about platform and what platform is supposed to be doing.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  And what.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  What can do in theory.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Do what it should be doing. For example, in the film, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll start here.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  So there's a moment in the film where Nathan asks to see the Theranos device. And Elizabeth lays it all out in front of Nathan and she says, this is it. And he says, so this machine you claimed, and you still claim this, that it couldn't test for all sorts of diseases. All it needs is the little prick of blood. And she said, yes, it can test for all those diseases.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  While she's holding a piece of paper, while she's reading off of it, not, maybe because she, she's had emotional distance from it or something, because it was like a whatever. But it's like, she doesn't quite know, as she's looking at this, has something to refer to, but yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  So she then discusses, he's questioning her and he's like, but it can't do that. And she was like, no, it can do that. And then they finally arrive at this idea that the machine should be able to do what she said it could do, that she sold as being able to do, but that the chemistry did not exist to interact with the machine to make these diagnoses, to inform people of what they needed to know about their medical situations. And then you realize that she is thinking of it as a platform. She even calls it a platform. She goes, this is a platform. And it reminded me of The Social Reckoning.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  When Zuckerberg was like, it's a platform. I don't control what people do with it. I think of the documentary as exactly that, a platform. And the movie is about when you have.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  You're so right.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  A documentary platform or any type of platform, a social networking platform, a medical platform, et cetera. Are you beholden to a specific result? Like, was this documentary, in the eye of every audience member, supposed to do any one thing? He would argue, and he has thousands and thousands of hours of footage, and what he decided to do was put together something that tried to, in a way, absolve her. And then in the final minutes of the movie, it's, he's confronted about, hey, could it be that you now, as a result of being too close to the subject,

• 19:16Speaker 01

  are making excuses about this platform and therefore sort of putting up your hands and saying, I'm not responsible for what it is or means or does in the world? And that to me is the interesting thing.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  The interesting thing is, he's actually asking us and actually effectively makes the case that she may actually just be at the hands of the men in her life. And because she is.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Of which, of which she is.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and they don't say the words, but they're trying to get across that she's autistic, right? And they're, they're trying to get across that she just doesn't have the emotional capacity to understand something like who's on first and therefore can't understand.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I don't even think that's, but yeah.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  But I guess what I'm saying is they're trying to give you many different reasons why you actually don't understand her and why she might be more innocent than you think.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  I agree with you.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  And I also, what I, I'm still thinking about this, what I find so interesting is that all four of the figures and people, characters, whatever, I mean, whatever, it's, it's, we can't really, it's hard to like land on like a term.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Well, they're humans, they're humans, but they are being characterized.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  Yes. And so between Nathan Fielder, Amanda Seyfried, Billy Evans, and Elizabeth Holmes, the four of them each have moments in the film where they go, well, she said this, or actually, did she? Elizabeth herself, she was like, I said this, or hmm, did I? Nathan's like recounting to someone else, she said this, oh, but maybe she didn't. Billy, she said this, oh, but maybe she didn't. The four of them are all contending with like, it's all about her. Like, much as being written and said about like, oh, the four of them aren't, you know, no one's telling the truth in this movie. But I think what ultimately it's about is no one is telling, is able to tell the truth about her.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Because she is unknowable in the ways that like this movie is, that's the only certain thing that you will come away from this movie.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Because even if you can see everything, you can't know everything.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  Which is why I like-

• 21:22Speaker 01

  You can never do that, which is the comment about the documentary itself. It's like, this is supposed to be, like, even her intention is, I want you to literally live with us and film with us so people can see the truth. And then that truth, when he realizes that it may be a very well manipulated one, it's a mindfuck because it, she's so convincing and she's so steadfast in what she doesn't know and what she is unaware of and what she has been misunderstood, that it holistically ends up in this thing where it's like, that's ultimately what it's about. It's that we can never know. Even if you see everything,

• 22:06Speaker 01

  you can't really know anything.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  The title gets obstructed by the horizon on the ocean.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  It's, the aspect ratio is four by three, where it feels like peripherally you're missing something.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Like, the whole thing is about like, what you cannot possibly see because there's always, just formally, it's like, there's something, and just in the editing, you know, it's like, you can just go on and on about this.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

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• 24:35Speaker 01

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• 24:42Speaker 01

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• 25:01Speaker 01

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• 25:09Speaker 01

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• 25:13Speaker 02

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• 26:15Speaker 02

  New episodes every Tuesday, sponsored by Healthy Sexual from Gilead Sciences. My question to you is that, is do you think he, Nathan Fielder had, has romantic feelings for her?

• 26:26Speaker 01

  I don't think so. I don't think that's what it is. I think what he's trying to show, I, I think, so, there's a moment in the movie-

• 26:34Speaker 02

  There's an implication there.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Totally. And I think that they play on that implication to make the film effective.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  And I will say, this is one of my favorite movies I've like-

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Ever seen.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Seen in some time.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  That's what I was gonna say. Oh, yeah, sure.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So just, our review of it is very positive. It is surprising, it's shocking, there are, it's, it's really about what happens when you give people a lot of room. Like, Nathan gives Billy and Elizabeth so much room, and they reveal everything about themselves, and yet even in doing that, it makes the reality even more confusing. So it's, it's almost like, when you see an entire picture, it is way more difficult to make a black and white call.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  With more information does not come more surety.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Well, even on like the, the tight closeups, especially in the conversations, in like the important conversations in the film, to like, to my mind, I'm thinking him asking Billy about how they met.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  And him not being sure, him, the, the scene from the trailer of like, why would I deceive you? The last conversation he has with Amanda in front of the fire. These are all very tight shots where it's like, oh, the closer you get to something, the less you know. I think, the reason I ask about if you think she, he has feelings for her is because I think about this, where she was telling Nathan that like, her way of flirting, like, it's, it's kind of played for laughs. And when, when he asks, he's like, well, how do you flirt? Like, when you and Billy met, like, how did you flirt with him? She just goes, I just make a lot of eye contact.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  And then I think what is like, an indelible scene in the movie that we now kind of culturally know since Labor Day, since that trailer dropped, is like, is the Why Would I Deceive You where she is unblinking. And it's like, and he's a little disarmed, and it's like, is that, is that, is there like a romancing, a seduction there that like, he can't help it be pulled into?

• 28:40Speaker 01

  I think what, it's not that he has romantic feelings with her.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Sure, sure.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  I think he has-

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Passionate and strong feelings towards the idea of what happens when he, like, it's more of an obsession with themselves, if that makes sense. It's like, he's like, I'm gonna break the rules and I'm gonna continue to get even more involved with my documentary subject. Because he's not like, he's not trying to do something typical with this documentary. I think he's seeing how far he can take things here. And she presents to him, I want you to go in the ocean with me. And he knows he should say no. But if he says no, then he'll never know how far it could have gone.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  So it's less a thing about her, and it's more about the situation.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  The limits.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Yes. Of course, he went in the ocean with her, because it's Nathan Fielder. It's not just any documentarian. So, in that regard, I don't think they have real romantic feelings for each other in the grander scheme.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  But that's the, the romance is the limit.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  What they're both lusting after is getting the final word on the situation and themselves. It's like a cat and mouse game.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, oh, someone tweeted, I loved, like, it's so funny, because Nathan Fielder and Elizabeth Holmes both think they're Bugs Bunny. And Billy Evans thinks he's Bugs Bunny, but it's actually Elmer Fad.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, so that's my take on Billy Evans, is he isn't a, he's an emotionally abusive guy. He's horrible. He's the, he's the type of narcissist who allows a documentary filmmaker to film him in the shower, and can't understand that the audience pull from that is gonna be, wow, what a fucking narcissist.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  He can't think beyond how fat his cock is and how good he's gonna look in the shower, to think, this is gonna make me look stupid, and it's gonna reveal a lot about my narcissistic character.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Even the, even brushing his teeth while he's in the shower.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  Like, it's just like.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  It's all, it's, it's.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  It's farce.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  It's affected.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  And.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  It's indicated, it's indicated.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Even when he is, like, unblinking, he's copying her.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  And that is also a thing that, like, a possessive, like, emotionally abusive guy does. Like, he is mirroring back to her so that she can feel a sense of pride in her state of being, and she can feel like she has met, like, an equal in the world, and someone who behaviorally, like, matches her. She may, he may think she thinks she's met her match. But I think that she is operating on a much higher level. I think that she knows it's that, in get, in getting Nathan Fielder there, so that he can get to know her husband, the pull is gonna be, this woman is an abusive dynamic. She must be, have, be in a pattern of abusive dynamics.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  That's what she wanted to present.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  I think she is manipulating every single part of this.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  Absolutely, because I think she lets herself off the hook when she says, I was just, when I wore all that makeup and had to do all those, had to get my picture taken. It's like, no.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  You, if you were a person that hated the limelight, you wouldn't invite Nathan Fielder to live with you 16 hours a day.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  You wouldn't, 1,000%, you would not, you would not be so image-conscious to dress like Steve Jobs, to lower your voice. Like, if you hated that, then you would be, you would not be in the limelight.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Present at all.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  And.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Or you wouldn't present in such an affected way.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  You would not get your picture taken by AI cameras, like, in, like, a fucking chamber of cameras. Like, you would not.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Which she also pinned on him.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  And I think that the image and the narrative of her in that, in the, in that 360 camera, because he said so, is supposed to make us feel like, wow, this person is, like, reduced to almost like a test subject. But that is by design.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  They pin things on each other, Billy and Elizabeth, which is why I come away from the movie thinking, well, I believe that they are really in love, and that they do share a consciousness.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  I think that Billy and Elizabeth are in a relationship that works for them. And I think that what people may not understand is that this is her choice to be there, not only because she's in love, whatever that means to someone like her.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  They would build statues for each other.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  But go, but, I'm sorry, I cut you off.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  No, this, this is a perfect cover for her.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  I know, I know.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  For, for her to be, for her, two things. For her to plead ignorance like this, to the point where it's like, no, I swear to God, I don't understand emotional complexity. I'm sorry, I just don't. I don't know what I've been through. I can't understand any of it.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  She's crying when she watches The Dropout, but yeah.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  She gets, she, she's.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  She does.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  She gets it.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  She does. She understands subtext, complexity, dynamics between people, et cetera. She knew what that was. But when you combine the fact that she is with an emotionally abusive partner, and remember, she had children with him very quickly, to anchor him, her to him.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  So she's got an anchor to someone that anyone can see plain as day is an emotionally abusive person, but no one can do anything about it. Not even her completely deflated, like, parents. But the audience sees it, and it's the possibility of exactly what you said, them leaving and saying, wow, I really sympathize with her. But she knows what she's doing. That's why she had Nathan Fielder come. And she also uses language that I really want people to look out for in their real life. When someone puts a burden on you, and then says to you repeatedly, I trust you, I trust you, I trust you, what they are asking you to do is to continue to.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Operate in their interest and not yours, because if you were to break that, it means you're an untrustworthy person.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  It's the same thing as, you're 100% right, and it's the same thing as, uh, putting a time limit on it. Just being like, this, we need to, we need to make a decision about this now, or you need to, you need to do this now.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Um, which in some ways is also the pretense of the whole movie being made, which is, you need to get the cameras in before I go to prison. Like, we're, we're on a time limit. Like, it is Nathan Fielder kind of operating under.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  You know, a time bound thing.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Limitations.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Limitations.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Um, but, yeah.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  But, um, I will say, what, what I can't stop thinking about, and I really don't know what to make of it, is when he brings Amanda to the house.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  There's a, there's a, there's a shot of them in the ocean together.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Really?

• 35:29Speaker 02

  If I recall correctly, like, in between, like, when, you know, after she, like, makes the eggs, and after, like, she kind of, they reenact certain things.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  I do believe there is, there was a moment where it cuts to Nathan in the ocean with Amanda.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Really? I didn't notice that.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  And I wonder if it's them just being like, let's go in the water.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  To see what it might feel like.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  Like, we're, we're by the beach, like, what do you do at the beach? You go in the water. Or if it's like, an, a tacit thing that we can't know as an audience member, uh, where it's like, was that a reenactment that Nathan?

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Something he revealed later.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  Of something he revealed to Amanda, which is, I did go in the water with her.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  I believe, I'm like 80% sure that happened, because I'm, I was with it the whole fucking time. This is the reason why I say it's one of my favorite movie-going experiences ever, is because I was just like, by myself, um, and I, I was, I was just gripped every single moment. I didn't check my phone once, which I hate that that's like a badge of honor.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  But, um.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  A long movie, you never check, check your phone once, that's something.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Ran to pee at the two-hour mark, never, never put my dick away faster.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  Um, ran back, and just, I was like, I can't miss any of this.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  No washing hands on today.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Went right back into that popcorn.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Pee is sterile.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Pee is sterile, you're gonna love it.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  You're gonna love it.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Um, I just, yeah, moment to moment, I just really, I don't know, it's just, it's, the air hangs so heavy. Every single moment of that movie.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  There's been, like, some discussion about, like, how it's gonna perform at, like, the Oscars and stuff. For me, it's like, a definite Best Picture nominee. I think it walks away with the documentary award.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Well.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  But then there's, you know, and then I think, in terms of the Amanda of it all, I think Amanda Seyfried deserves a nomination for this in Supporting Actress, because they are campaigning her. It is allowed. And I just think, you know, it'd be one thing, because I was watching it, and I, I had known that they were talking about running whoever the surprise actress was in Supporting Actress. I, I knew that was what it was. And then when I watched it, I'm watching it the whole time, and I was like, well, that would feel a little gimmicky, because she's playing herself here, and, and in most of the, or she's, she is herself here in most of the movie. And the reenactments are, you know, I, I like them because I recognize that she did a great performance as Elizabeth Holmes.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  But then in that final.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Scene, there's a scene at the end of the movie where he has to reenact his last conversation with her in person at the federal prison where she's at. And Amanda's performance is so terrific.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  Those lips were chapped as fuck.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Chapped as hell. Not only was it just, like, great acting performance, but also, for me, it strengthened the entire film and the mission of that film, which is to present a compelling enough case that would leave you in a state where you've seen everything, but know even less. And I feel like because she's able to really drop into the emotion of that moment, and provide a compelling conduit for that relationship in that moment, it sends the movie into the stratosphere.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  It's an acting performance that conveys, like, this irreducible thing about, like, sorry, like, what it is to be human. And like, in this particular case, it's like, I don't, no one quite knows what that is, except that, you know, we're all unknowable in some way. But like, I agree, I think the documentary, there's a conversation about the doc, the best documentary category being tough, because the documentary branch of the Academy is quite fastidious and persnickety.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  That would be.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Like, this isn't a real thing.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Sure, I mean, to, to their own detriment.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  That would be, if they wanna get it that far up their own ass, like, that would be to their own detriment, because this, to me, absolutely blows open the documentary genre. I mean, like, it's so inspiring. So many young people are gonna watch this that are aspiring to be, aspiring to be filmmakers, and they are gonna be so galvanized by something like this. That's kind of beside the point. My thing is, with, with, with, because for me, it's like, definitely getting that nomination, whether it wins, we'll see. Best Picture, I think, is now kind of a foregone conclusion, now that it has these reviews and all this narrative and this box office. For me with Amanda, it's like, when did you ever get to see?

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Someone.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Reckon with their performance, understand what it means in the world in a larger context, hear feedback about it, be introduced new information on camera, begin a new process, and execute that performance, only to, again, reckon with the situation. That, to me, is like...

• 40:27Speaker 02

  That's never, it's never been done before.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  It's never been done before. And she's also so good in the movie as herself. Like, her rosé drunk in that man's house, saying Charlie Kirk was a pussy.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Iconic.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Like, that pushed him. And also, anyone being like, because of course, you know, I saw, like, the most intellectually dishonest person in media, Megyn Kelly.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  You love her.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  I can't, I, well, I'm fascinated by her.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  She's your Elizabeth.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  I'm fascinated by her because I think her media narrative, like, for me, it's just like, talk about platform, whatever.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Matt Breton did a whole video essay about like, the...

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Oh, I watched the whole thing. I DM'd him about it. I thought it was incredible. Him, Francesca, and Emma, that was, by the way, in a world where we're still saying this, my Avengers. Like, they did such a compelling, like, almost two, over two hour video essay on Megyn Kelly, basically about how like,

• 41:21Speaker 02

  She was an improbable...

• 41:22Speaker 01

  She was a sellout to Fox News.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Then she was a sellout to NBC, and now she's just a sellout to the male gaze. She's just a sellout to the patriarchy. She is, she'll say whatever it is that she needs to say to satisfy wherever big dollar is coming from, and she does it under the guise of having like a strong perspective and like strong, like, moral convictions, but when, when those moral convictions change every five or six years, that's not true, my love. So, anyways, but she...

• 41:52Speaker 02

  You called her my love, you love her.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  I, well, you know, I love everybody. We love everybody.

• 41:59Speaker 01

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• 42:02Speaker 02

  Time for some prep wisdom.

• 42:03Speaker 01

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• 42:16Speaker 01

  That's why you need to talk to your doctor and know what to ask. So here's some prep wisdom.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Did you know there's more to consider about long-acting injectable prep options than how often you get it? Also, why you want to take it matters. Your lifestyle matters, your routine, your chaos level, your, I might forget my own birthday energy, all of it counts.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Basically, talk to your doctor. Have the conversation, ask the questions, be a little nosy about your own health. It's allowed, encouraged even. Okay, did you write all that down?

• 42:42Speaker 02

  No?

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Don't worry.

• 42:43Speaker 02

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• 42:54Speaker 01

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• 43:17Speaker 01

  Way crisper than you'd think. Like, you bite into one and there's the little pop that you don't see coming from something that still tastes like classic M&M's caramel.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Sure, they don't look exactly like the M&M's you know, but they are the M&M's you love. They're perfect for snacking when watching television, scrolling on your phone, or settling in for a movie.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  And I'm already thinking that'll be great to have on hand while watching the Culture Awards.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Yes. The best part is they've got that classic M&M's caramel flavor. It's available in stores now.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Hey, Bowen, is it just me, or does it feel like nothing is actually what it says it is anymore?

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, when you order chicken fingers, you don't get fingers, you get mystery nuggets.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Exactly. Well, except hotels.com.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, hotels.com, because they do hotels.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Refreshing.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  And when booked as a member, rewards are earned every stay. Not points that disappear, rewards that work like cash and can actually be used.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  So, the name checks out, and the perks do too.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Yep. Members can get up to 20% off tons of hotels with no blackout dates, just works with real travel.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Okay, that tracks.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Hotels.com, it's all in the name.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Ever wondered how to cruise? And I'm not talking about boats. Season four of Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is finally here, and it's hotter, smarter, and spicier than ever.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson-Rasso know their stuff, and this year, they're not afraid to get a little hands-on.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  They're serving up jaw-dropping, insightful, and seriously hilarious conversations with some of the boldest voices in the queer community, from celebrities and comedians to kinksters and cruising pros.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  This season's all about challenging stereotypes, celebrating sex positivity, and keeping things delightfully unfiltered. Because intimacy doesn't always look like candlelight and roses, sometimes it's spontaneous, curious, and a little unexpected.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  Get ready for deep dives into the history of cruising, trending gay cosmetic procedures, dispatches from Atlanta to Puerto Rico, how OnlyFans is reshaping adult content, and so much more.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  So if you're feeling curious, maybe a little bold, consider this your official invitation to push play.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions now on the iHeartRadio app, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  New episodes every Tuesday, sponsored by Healthy Sexual from Gilead Sciences.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  But she, of course, got on her platform, and she was like, you just can't go to the movies anymore without Hollywood shoving this down your throat. Someone I care about, Charlie Kirk, et cetera. Mama, he brought it up. Billy Evans brought Charlie Kirk up.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  If you watch the movie...

• 45:41Speaker 02

  As a way to get at Amanda.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. He's sitting there with Amanda, who he clearly doesn't respect, for the same reasons that anyone would make a blind assessment on someone based on what they saw in the media. So he says to her, she's just pissed because she's just an actress and she got dragged because of Charlie Kirk. She didn't bring up Charlie Kirk.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  She didn't bring up Charlie Kirk.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Nathan didn't bring up Charlie Kirk. So this isn't the Hollywood machine shoving Charlie Kirk down your throat. This is your, this is this guy with your dude in his mouth, trying to, and just because he's an unsavory character, and he happens to stand your fave, doesn't mean the movie's shitty.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  It's classic Darvo narcissist, um, and him saying, what sent, what almost got me out of my seat,

• 46:26Speaker 02

  and like, what almost got me was him saying, I'm better read than you.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course that guy says that. He's not smart enough to not.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  No, exactly.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  She is so, she is...

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Watching a biochemistry video on three times speed is not reading, you fucking idiot.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  No, that was crazy. He's not in, he's not...

• 46:43Speaker 02

  I just vow two times speed now.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Well, here's the thing. Two times speed is different than one time, 1.5 times speed.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  1.5 times speed, and this is real, is saving time.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 46:56Speaker 01

  2.0 times speed is a waste of time.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Is, well, is, is like, pure technocrat, like, optimization. 1.5 speed is a convenience, is me, is me being a centaur to the technology. 2.5 and above is you being a reverse centaur.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing, is like, when you're listening to 2.0 times speed or above, it's like, all you want to do is say you listened to it. All you want to do is say you're aware of what was being given to you. You're not attempting to understand it, because you've eliminated, and I also do think it's very telling, about the elimination of human thought process pause, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, you're not interested in the humanistic communication of these ideas. You're interested in receiving the information so that you can have it, and then probably weaponize it.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  This is why, again, you're gonna love the story of your life.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Which I got.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  She has a whole thing where she goes like, honestly, podcasts might be like the saving grace of social media. She doesn't say that outright, but she goes, podcasts are just conversation, and with conversation, you can like,

• 48:07Speaker 02

  awkwardly stumble through a thought, you can take something back, you can move forward, you can find commonality, you can find disagreement. It's like, that is something that social media can never capture.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Well, it's true. It's, I mean, I enjoy, I enjoy in this podcast when people talk over each other. I like when people stutter. I like when people say the wrong word. Because to me, it's like, I think that's why...

• 48:28Speaker 02

  That's what life is, that's what community, yeah.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  When you are flying through something just to receive information, like, you really could just like, read it, or you really could just, you know, like, you could...

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Consume it as like purely content.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Right. And the guy is, I mean, not to say he's barely human, I think he's one of the, he's incredibly human, because he, his full spectrum of all his flaws and, like, indulgences and ugly and, you know, attractive things are on display here. But he's doing himself a huge disservice by being this transparently who he is. Because he's gonna see this, and I don't know if he's gonna wanna, like, learn from it, but that guy's got problems.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Problems that, like, even she doesn't have, because at least she knows exactly who the fuck that she is. Even if she's in jail, she's gonna get out in a couple of years, and if enough people...

• 49:22Speaker 02

  This year, within the next year.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and she has a whole other life. She does. Like, this is not the last act for her. This is the last act for Billy Evans.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  I think she is, she is, to me, like, one of the most fascinating Americans in history.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  She's going to have, there's gonna be, this is not the final chapter on her.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  I thought you...

• 49:44Speaker 01

  And she knows that.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Just to be, just to, I was watching the movie, I was like, there's, there's some, you were telling me about some appearance by a woman.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Before I saw the movie, I was like, I was watching the movie the entire time. I was like, is Jen Shaw going to like take over?

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Jen Shaw was the only thing I thought was missing.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  And I said that as a joke, but now I'm thinking about it and I'm like, kinda not. Because for her to become besties with a Real Housewife of Salt Lake City fraudster, who was horrible at covering up who she was.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? I wonder if Elizabeth Holmes taught her a thing or two.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Cameras into her life.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Like they're, they're, they're the same strain of fucking, like wild existence in the modern, like, like the look at me, don't look at me. I mean.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Variety should do a frauds on frauds, like they do actors on actors and it should just be.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  And we should be the first guests.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Jen Shaw. Jen Shaw and Elizabeth Holmes in conversation. I watched three hours of it.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Oh, fam.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Three. I'll, I'll watch, you can see everything again.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Again.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  In duration.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Well, you see it again. I kind of want to see it again.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  I was planning on seeing it again for this because it begged.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  But the, the tickets are flying.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Gone. And I also, I saw Sense and Sensibility.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  Oh my God, tell us. You were telling me last night.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Well, or do we feel that we've covered You Can See Everything?

• 51:06Speaker 02

  Let's bring Trevor back.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Let's, let's bring Trevor back. I do want to say, like, and I texted you about her because I was like, someone we've always stand.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Is solidified in the culture of stand.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  I think she's always been solid, but yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  She is so. She's important to our culture.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  She, and literally it's Halloween and I, I just keep, when I was watching the movie, I was like, oh, this is the woman who gave us.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  I'm a mouse. Duh.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  I mean, okay, so you're back. We, we hope you didn't hear anything through the walls.

• 51:38Speaker 03

  I didn't hear a single thing.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Okay, amazing.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  You're watching tonight?

• 51:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I'm seeing it tomorrow.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Tomorrow.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Seeing it tomorrow. Okay, we'll try. So guys, um, welcome back. If you, um, are joining us now, uh, we talked about You Can See Everything, which you should absolutely see. It's one of our favorite movies. Maybe even ever.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  Maybe even ever. I will just say that this is not a spoiler, but the, uh, the, the other reason why this is, this was one of my favorite, I guess favorite's also a weird word, but like most memorable cinema experiences was as soon as the movie was done. I mean, this is a very reactive, raucous audience. As soon as the movie was done,

• 52:16Speaker 02

  everyone shoots up out of their seats, silently files out.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  I'm like, what the fuck? I don't know. Well, because I think we were all, on, on one level, I was like, what did I just watch? What do I think of this? Of like, I need to process everything. On the end there, I was like, as Tina says, like, there's nothing creepier than a, than a group of adults not saying anything.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  A group of adults being silent.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  I think, and you know, not to spoil because we said we wouldn't, I think it's just very uncomfortable to sit with the reality that something you've believed to be true may not be true. And that is unsettling. You know what I mean? Because regardless of what you feel about what she has done and this, there is a human being there and there are children there and there, and I'm, I just, again, I think about her parents, like it's, it's just a really, it's fucking fascinating and you must. Um, so then I saw Sense and Sensibility.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Oh my God.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  I can't believe you've never read it.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  I'm not, I'm this huge sort of hole in my reading. This is, I want to, I want to apologize. I, on behalf of, so.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  On behalf of who? I think just yourself.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Just me. Yeah. I don't know what I was, I just, I just wanted to.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  That was interesting.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  I wanted to get myself.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Tried to make it bigger than him.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Well, on behalf of.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  To pluralize the responsibility platform.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  On behalf of anybody who thinks of you as like, because I sent you a lovely email that I got from.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  This is very meaningful to me.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  From one Zadie Smith, who has been a reader, a finalist for, for years now.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Which is the most flattering thing I could ever think about.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  She, she says to me, she goes, what's wild to me? I'll just read it. Can I just read this email?

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Would Zadie be okay with this?

• 53:52Speaker 02

  I think so. And this is, Zadie Smith is like a no subject queen. No subject. A thing I find crazy is Matt can deconstruct Digger and Social Reckoning, literally like a Harvard grad, but refuses to read a book. Maybe he, maybe if he read a book, it would just be too dangerous and he'd become president or something. Thoughts?

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Well, as you all know, it is never a bad time to stand up for what's right. And I want to take this opportunity to announce that I am running.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Ah, yes.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  I am excited to turn this country in a new direction, which I'm going to decide what direction that is later. But I will be running for president of the United States in 2028. I am the first Democratic hopeful to announce. And I just want to say that.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  I'm back.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  If AOC runs, I'll drop out.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  I think we have a lot of the same, you know, same stuff going on. So if she wants to run, I will drop out. But if she doesn't run, I'm running.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  And I'll just, my platform is hers.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Trust.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  Or you guys figure something out where she donates a million dollars to you.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  We'll figure something out either way.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  I do think that next year is the year of AOC on Lost Cult.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Should we announce, uh, who is gonna be on the episode? No, maybe we shouldn't.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  Next week?

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Maybe, uh, our, our Hulu debut.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  Oh my God.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  No, we can't say.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  No, we can't say.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  We can't because. Tina is shaking her head hard.

• 55:27Speaker 02

  Anal, isn't anal enough for her?

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Anal's enough. So anyway, we have an amazing guest for November 18th, which is our, our Hulu debut. We have an amazing guest.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  We have a great guest.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  But anyway, yeah. Oh, Sense and Sensibility. You've never read it.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Never read it. Never saw the Ang Lee movie.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. I told you this last night.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, you did tell me this. You've never seen it. Oh God, it's so good. Emma Thompson and Kate Winslet. Emma Thompson won a writing Oscar for adapted screenplay for her adaptation of Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility. Bowen Yang and I are no strangers to a Jane Austen adaptation. Fire Island, if you don't know, was an adaptation by Joel Kim Booster of Pride and Prejudice, also by Jane Austen. And Sense and Sensibility is sort of the sister novel to it. I was really excited to see it because I love a rainy Sunday period movie.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  Uh, was it raining on Sunday when you saw it?

• 56:22Speaker 01

  It was. It was like a light mist. And, um, Patrick Foley and I saw it. Like, because I, I felt spiritually like he and I would enjoy a period piece.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  Absolutely. He's the exact right person.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  And so, you know, it was funny is like, I loved it. I was, I, I just love like, it's just so funny when a woman is like in, in the period times and they're like, you mustn't speak your wants. And then the other sister is like, I, but I want. And she's like, well, you mustn't speak it.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  One must.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Sense and Sensibility.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. You love one must.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  One must restrain.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  Well, you, I, I said, you're kind of sense and I'm kind of sensibility.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  In many ways.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  You, you are Daisy and I am the other one.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  So their names are Mary Ann and Eleanor.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  I mean, like, you're Kate Winslet and I'm Emma Thompson. That's.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  Correct. So basically what happens in Sense and Sensibility is like, there's.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  Why don't you tell everyone happens?

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Why don't you tell everyone happens?

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Well, people were killed.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Nope. Nobody was killed.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Nobody was killed.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  Nobody was killed? Okay.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  People almost die in it.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  People almost die in it.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  Two times.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Because we've been referencing that moment of Tamar, of Tamar, uh, teeing up, um, Derek Barry. I have a problem with the fact that there's no air in here and I'm gonna die. Open the door now. It's a little hot.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  It is a little hot.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  I'm suffocating.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  Do you guys feel a little hot in here?

• 57:49Speaker 02

  No, but, but we're, we're in front of the lights, so maybe that's it.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  No, yeah, I know, but it's just like, you know, um, anyways.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  It's unbelievable. Okay, but, okay, yes. So you're Emma and you're Caitlin, Cait, uh, Kate Winslet and I'm Emma.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  I feel this is true because I feel like just, so people that don't know, it's about these sisters. They're a family of women and their father passes away and they receive word that he has pretty much disinherited them and given all his money to their half brother. So the half brother and his like horrible wife come and they like take over their home and, but then they get introduced to the horrible wife's brother.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  Who's a hottie.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Who's a hottie and lovely. And he is, you know, it, there's immediately an interest between him and the older sister Eleanor, who's played in this movie by Daisy Edgar Jones, and then the original Ang Lee movie by Emma Thompson. And basically they have this whole like stuffy, like, we're standing three feet away from each other and isn't it lovely to be with such a fine person? Yes. Hmm. And there's like the tension simmering between them and it's like so thick. And then literally at the very end, like they're all like, we believe he may ask for a hand. And then like, he doesn't, and it's devastating and horrible. Meanwhile, the younger sister is like, sort of like a wanton, like sort of like, she's like out there. She's like, you know, she's like,

• 59:07Speaker 01

  you know, she's like gallivanting about. She like wants love bad. She meets Willoughby, who's like this sort of like fuck boy type. And you can tell him from a mile away. And he like low key love bombs her, but Austin times and bounces. And then she gets so upset about it that she like essentially lays in a grassy field while it rains and becomes gravely ill. And that feels more like me.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  I think we both have equal propensity to be gravely ill.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Uh, so I'm, I'm, I'm not talking about like, I guess it's the way they became gravely ill. It's like the older sister Eleanor, you can tell that she will sit and she'll sit and like let herself like

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  be miserable internally. Um, I loved it. I love Daisy Edgar Jones. And she said that, she said in an interview, it's her goal to make rainy day movies, like Sunday rainy day movies. And I was like, well.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Well done.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  She's got me by the throat. And she was the star of Twisters.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  She was the star of Twisters. Did a, did a great American accent, I would say.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  She's really good.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  I would say Normal People is a, is a rainy day show.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  She does rainy day stuff. And I really want more people to be saying three words, Daisy Edgar Jones. And you know who's also good? That's three letter, three words. Esme Creed Miles, who plays the younger sister, does the Kate Winslet role.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  And she is the daughter of Samantha Morton.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  I thought, I thought you said Samantha Mumba. I go, whoa.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Samantha Mumba, I do wanna meet her daughter.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  I wanna meet her daughter.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. I hope so. That's nepotism I want.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, for sure.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  If there's a young Samantha Mumba, she should, she should receive the privileges of nepo and become a star.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  Well, her name is Jade.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Stop it.

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  No, I'm kidding. No.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  The singer Jade, to me, feels like, no, that's actually not fair. Jade, Jade is.

• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  I think Jade is so much more expansive than Samantha Mumba got the opportunity to be.

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  I just think Jade just has, like, the verve.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  We tried to get Jade on the, Jade.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  I, we fuck, we fucking love Jade.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  We've been fighting to get Jade on this podcast. What happened with that, Anna? It'll happen.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  It'll happen.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Jade, oh.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  Speaking of music, I wanted to mention the.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  Rachel Tinneriri album? No.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Well, the Rachel Tinneriri album is amazing.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  Yes. I think I spoke too soon. So good.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  So good. And I love the Broken Chair song.

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  Very good.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  I, I'm really into her. Also, her music videos are great. I'm kind of sort of a new fan.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, she's wonderful.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  Love. Because I remember, um, she was actually in contention a couple of years ago for a Best New Artist nomination at the Los Culturistas Culture Awards. And then we decided that we wanted to make it more of a joke.

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  Right. And we, we couldn't have, we, we were gonna be facetious about.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it was, it would be weird to name, like, four jokes and then, like, someone who's actually.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  Like, exciting and.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  Not that our Best New Artist winners haven't been exciting. They're just not making waves in the music industry yet. Waiting for that album, Stacy Rush.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  Oh, Stacy, you gotta release an album. And I think Stacy, no matter what we say, Stacy will take that award so deadass, seriously.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  This ad is sponsored by Vive Healthcare. Time for some prep wisdom.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

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• 1:02:20Speaker 01

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• 1:02:25Speaker 02

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• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Basically, talk to your doctor. Have the conversation, ask the questions, be a little nosy about your own health. It's allowed, encouraged even. Okay, did you write all that down? No? Don't worry.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  Just head to getprepwisdom.com to learn what to ask your doctor. That's getprepwisdom.com. Introducing M&M's caramel you already love now popped into a totally new texture.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  I'd say M&M's are one of those truly iconic snacks.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

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• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  I mean, come on. What's not to love about M&M's?

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  And if it's freeze-dried, I feel like I'm in space. M&M's continues to be that girl. The crunch is unexpected in the best way.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Way crisper than you'd think. Like, you bite into one and there's the little pop that you don't see coming from something that still tastes like classic M&M's caramel.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

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• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  And I'm already thinking that'll be great to have on hand while watching the Culture Awards.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  Yes. The best part is they've got that classic M&M's caramel flavor. It's available in stores now.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Hey, Bowen, is it just me or does it feel like nothing is actually what it says it is anymore?

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, when you order chicken fingers, you don't get fingers, you get mystery nuggets.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  Exactly. Well, except hotels.com.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, hotels.com, because they do hotels.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  Refreshing.

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  And when booked as a member, rewards are earned every stay. Not points that disappear, rewards that work like cash and can actually be used.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  So the name checks out, and the perks do too.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Yep. Members can get up to 20% off tons of hotels with no blackout dates, just works with real travel.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Okay, that tracks.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Hotels.com, it's all in the name.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Ever wondered how to cruise? And I'm not talking about boats. Season four of Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is finally here, and it's hotter, smarter, and spicier than ever.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  Hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson-Rasso know their stuff, and this year, they're not afraid to get a little hands-on.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  They're serving up jaw-dropping, insightful, and seriously hilarious conversations with some of the boldest voices in the queer community, from celebrities and comedians to kinksters and cruising pros.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  This season's all about challenging stereotypes, celebrating sex positivity, and keeping things delightfully unfiltered. Because intimacy doesn't always look like candlelight and roses, sometimes it's spontaneous, curious, and a little unexpected.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Get ready for deep dives into the history of cruising, trending gay cosmetic procedures, dispatches from Atlanta to Puerto Rico, how OnlyFans is reshaping adult content, and so much more.

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  So if you're feeling curious, maybe a little bold, consider this your official invitation to push play.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

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• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  New episodes every Tuesday, sponsored by Healthy Sexual from Gilead Sciences.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  But speaking of Best New Artist, two girlies who have won it have maximized their joint, uh, pop girl slay, uh, expectations. Chapel Rohn and Olivia Rodrigo. I was watching it with Melissa. Everyone else wishes.

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  I watch Olivia these days, and I'm like, everyone else wishes.

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  You just go, the, just, the, the, the outlook on the future is so clear, and then the, um, reverence for the past, or just like the history of music that's important to her is so clear.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  There is not a thirsty bone in her body. And what I love about Olivia Rodrigo, which I kind of realized earlier, is it's like, she's not obsessed every single, and I'm not dragging anyone else, because I think there's so much value and so much fun in the era thing of it all. But she's not saying, like, look what I've become this time.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  Look what I am this time. Her thing is, look what I'm becoming. Like, watch the artist that I am growing into. Like, all of her albums feel like evolutions, and it's not to say that there's not something, I mean, presiding over us today, we have the Immaculate Collection, which is, you know, Madonna is obviously the queen of reinvention, but what I like about Olivia is she's doing something else which is, like, equally viable and sometimes even more satisfying, which is she is marinating and evolving and becoming every day, like, more the artist that she is. And you know what you're gonna get, but it still feels surprising in the minutia, in the emotional

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  growth, in the musical, you know, steps she takes. And for her to team up with Chapel, Dan Nigro is just like, he's just the coolest.

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  I'd like to shake his hand.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  I'd like to shake his hand, and I'd like to fluff the back of, he's got, like, a mullet.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  A little mullet.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  He's a Long Island guy.

• 1:07:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. You guys are, you guys are, you guys have, you guys are musically talented people.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  I saw him at the Daisy Chain Fields Festival, and I got intimidated. And I, I was like, I kinda wanna go say hi to him, but then I got nervous.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Dua, Cal, if you can talk to Dua and Callum, you can talk to anyone.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  I just, the music video's so good. Game shows, we love it.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  We love a game show. Yeah, bring him back.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  Bring him back.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  Bring him back.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  Also, who's doing four music videos for an album now?

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  I know. Well, I guess that, that, that, that comes down to the economics and the label of it all.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah, that is actually so true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  But.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  But what, I guess, like, I mean, the VMAs did her kinda dirty.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  And I was like, mm, she was the video artist of this year. She, I mean, like, between Drop Dead, which she literally shot at Versailles.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Like, that wasn't gonna get a music video of the year nomination?

• 1:08:23Speaker 02

  All the girls are doing stuff at Versailles. Carly, I don't know, end of sentence.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  No, honestly, you are right.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  No, no, no, I'm not, and I'm not.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right. Fuck her.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Fuck Olivia. No, I'm kidding.

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  Fuck her. I love starting feuds now.

• 1:08:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I mean, it went over great with, well, it did go over great with Amy. And I feel closer to Amy than ever.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Oh, no. She said she would love to be in a feud with us for the Golden Globe. Yeah.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, we can, we can, we can keep this going.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  We can keep this going.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  Um, and then, uh, what else was I gonna, well, I'm just, I'm kind of in my, my book, my reading era.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  Well, speaking of reading.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  So we're gonna have, we're gonna have them on next week.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  So they're coming on, uh.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  They're coming, they're.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  They're coming on this, so by the time this comes out, they'll be out this Wednesday.

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  This upcoming Wednesday.

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  Yes, so this is, I wanna be famous when everybody and nobody is a celebrity by Bobby Finger and Lindsay Weber, who you know from Who Weekly.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  This is how you do a, a, both like a cultural.

• 1:09:24Speaker 02

  Book and just like a podcast to book adaptation, which we are, you know, thinking about.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  As we write ours.

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  This is fantastic.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  So basically, this is about like, essentially, it's about celebrity and the change in how celebrity is pursued as the attention economy has needed to change and as the, you know, ways in which we receive and encourage celebrity has changed, like, actually, over the decades. Like, I didn't know so much about what they talked about in this book in regards to like-

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  It's so well researched.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  The way that the early movie studios, like, really relied and worked with, like, Hedda Hopper, et cetera. People that were in the gossip and tabloid industry, like, actually had a real relationship with movie studios, et cetera, to create stars, because what you needed to do in the OG days, when you weren't just receiving information all the time from social media, is you actually, as a consumer, needed to hear about the lives of these celebrities.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  From, like, a Luella Parsons.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  Exactly. So that you could care enough to go to their movies.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  Right. Which, yeah, and I'm, we'll bring this up with them, they're recording after this episode tapes, but I'm just, I'm obsessed with Denzel Washington telling Michael B. Jordan, like, "Why would they pay to see you on a weekend when they see you during the week?"

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  Which honestly, like, feels like very-

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  Old Hollywood.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  Denzel Washington was famous at a time when-

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  That was-

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  Vice.

• 1:10:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Because they talk, well, basically, the whole thing is, like, there's people who are thems, and there's people who are who's.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  And I'm sure that there's a lot of crossover with Lost Culture Weekly.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  Them, who.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  That's not true.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  It literally is, because you are like a household name that doesn't need, and I think-

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  Mama, at the opera last night, how many people came up to me and they were like, "I know you from somewhere."

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  I think, so when they come in here, we're gonna ask them, and you're gonna have to receive that you're a them, and you can't fight it. Because you're Bowen Yang. No one that's the star of Oh, Mary, outside of maybe a couple examples.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Name it.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  Like, like, if you're the star of Oh, Mary, and the star of SNL, and they give you, like, a send-off with Cher and Ariana Grande, and you're in Wicked, you're kind of a them, hon.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  If you're one of the co-hosts of Lost Culture.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  No, you're doing it again. You're, like, you have to-

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  Let me.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  You have, you have to allow room for thems and who's. That's what the whole book is about.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  I, I'm gonna bring this up, I'm gonna bring this up on their episode. Should we think of a prank? We haven't, we haven't done, like, not a prank, we haven't done, like, a game in a while.

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, what should we do? Should it be this? We just keep hitting the book?

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  No, I feel like, I feel like the engineer's gonna hate, they're gonna hate it.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  You're always thinking about, like, the most specific thing.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  What if we hold the book upside down every single time we pick it up? Guys, read the book.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  This is so, and then, and if they ever point out that it's upside down, just go, "Oh, yep, sorry about that." And then do it, and then the next time you pick it up, do it again. Okay, that's it, that's it, that's it. This is so good.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  This is such a good book.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  And then, honestly, no one give away, because we're gonna keep doing it.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  We're gonna keep doing it.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Let it happen three times.

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Okay. No one laugh when it happens.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  What I wanna bring up to them is, I think both of us are thems to who's and who's to thems.

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  Not you. You are a them to thems. I will not allow you to do this.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  You are a them to thems. You got, we're honored at the Academy Museum Gala. Like, this thing that is, they're now trying to make, like, the Met Gala of the West.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  And like, the true beginning of Oscar season.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  So there was four people that got honored at that, and one of them was you. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're a them. And that's fine, that's good. We need both. Like, I, I, as a who, make it possible for you to, to, you should be not telling me, like, that we're on the same level. You should be thanking me for being an entertainment industry bottom feeder, so that I can keep the industry of which you, on which you preside, going.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  Honey, you've read Sense and Sensibility, and I haven't.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  What does that have to do with anything?

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm the bottom feeder. I'm unread. Billy Evans would say that I'm terribly read.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  You are addicted to your limitations.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  Billy Evans is better read than me. Damn it. Oh, sorry, spoiler, Trevor. It's not a spoiler.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  He, I will spoil you on this. Everything he listens to, he listens to at 2.0 speed.

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I, I think it's faster than, I think it's at least three. You'll see.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  It's a bit of a texture in the film, you'll see.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  It was so, and they did it more than once, because he really wanted you to know that detail about him.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  My favorite, what was your favorite chapter in the book?

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  Hard to choose. I would say the podcasting one was very interesting, as people who, as people who are casters. I think the nepo baby one was interesting. I think the, I learned the most from the gossip one, which is where they talk about Luella Parsons, Hedda Hopper, into Liz Smith, into Perez Hilton, and to Des Moines Popgrave.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. My, um, my favorite was the 2010s Killed the Cover Star, which is chapter two, because I, I feel like-

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I have plenty to say about that, yeah.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  It's just, it's just, and really also the Heidi and Spencer of it all.

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  And also, the way that, like, the book is great, because it actually reminds you, like, you're reading it, and you're having fun, and you're like, "Oh, yeah." Like, it's so funny, like, how things have changed, like, the attention economy, et cetera, and then it's like Donald Trump became president.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And it's like-

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  It feels like it was written for you specifically. Like, all the references, I mean, they're lambs, they're Swifties, they're writing about Elizabeth Stolarzki into Hasselbeck.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  Oh, god. No, that was so real, and I was really, when I, when I started that chapter, I was like, "Oh, my god, they're actually gonna get into the Elizabeth Hasselbeck of it all," because she is a perfect case study for-

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  A who becoming a them.

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, and also, had she wanted to continue in media, she would have been very powerful.

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Very.

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  But she's also a wag where she doesn't need to.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  Um, to keep it pop culture.

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  Top five things we wanna see from the girls' five-episode reboot, which was just announced.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  Okay, and so, are we, are we keeping this game going, where iHeart pays us $50 if we land on the same number one?

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  So the way-

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  How does, like, we both have to have, want the same thing?

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  We both have to, in unison, say we want the same thing.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  Because originally, because, like, the, I mean, originally, we've only done it once, but originally-

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  Originally meaning Bowen's original idea for it.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  And I just wanna, I just wanna put it out there.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  It was just, like, us, like, objectively ranking, rather than listing our wants and hopes and dreams for something.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  So I would, as an alternative, it can also be, like, the top five girls' moments.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Of all time?

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Feels like that would be repeating things we've said on the podcast many times, whereas this could be, like, an exciting endeavor.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  But then how will we, how will we mind meld about the same thing to want?

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  This is gonna be one of those things where we do it, and it's more fun than you realized, and you're gonna be happy that we did it.

• 1:16:32Speaker 02

  I have no doubt it'll be fun. I'm very happy to do it. I'm just kind of, I want some parameters. I want limits.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  Let's try it, and if by three, it feels like it's not working, we'll do top five girls' moments of all time.

• 1:16:44Speaker 02

  This is, okay.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  What are you looking forward to, number five?

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  I'm looking forward to seeing the very high-powered job that Shosh has.

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh, my god. Need this. What do you think it is? In what industry?

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  I wanna say it's PR.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  But that feels too easy. I think, I think they, they're so far ahead, Lena's so far ahead of us on this. I think she wants to do, I think, I think it'll end up being, like,

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  lifestyle guru, or like, or like, lux, luxury travel agent, hospitality queen, something, something in that sort of space.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. My guess is, I think she's gonna be a partner at UTA.

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  Oh, that's fun.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  Number four for me, thing I'm looking forward to most about girls, hearing how badly it ended with Jessa and Adam, because Adam Driver's obviously not doing the show.

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  And understanding what went wrong there, and where it's left Jessa, and I wonder how much of a big deal they make it. And, like, wondering how the fuck, like, you figure Jessa and Hannah back in together.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  I'm, right, oh, that's interesting. That's more interesting than the Adam fallout, where it's like,

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  they will do, they will handle it in a way that, like, is sort of sleeker than the way, and just like that handled Big and Samantha being sort of not super present.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  I mean, with the big thing, obviously, like, we know what happens, but, uh, okay. That's great.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Number three.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  Number three, just really, they have the power to really, like,

• 1:18:37Speaker 02

  wipe Dime Square off the map forever.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:18:41Speaker 02

  I don't know, but that that seems a little pernicious. I don't I don't want that. I don't wish that.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. How do we feel about this at three?

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, you're right. No. Oh, oh, I'm sorry.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  No, how do we feel? No, we said we'd check in at three.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  I feel good about it. It seems like I think you want to finish this.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  We can finish it. I was just saying we'd check in at three.

• 1:19:03Speaker 02

  Of course. Let's finish it.

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  Number two, Alex Karpovski sex scenes.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  You're looking forward to that.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Can't wait to see that. Can't fuck.

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  Um, and number one.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Number one, the number one thing we're looking forward to.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  Oh, Lena Dunham acting again. I was gonna say Marnie Michaels radicalized in some political.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  I think Marnie Marnie Michaels, maybe she like is a producer for Megyn Kelly.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  No, that would never happen. But Marnie Michaels, I think, I think Marnie is probably part of like a cult.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  She's definitely, well, I think Jessa is the one that's most susceptible to a cult because she swears she's not. And she's the most like wayward. And I I feel like Marnie is the type of girl who watches so many cult documentaries that she's like, super, super, super educated about it. And yet is in like another corporate structure that like is a cult.

• 1:20:09Speaker 02

  Right. Oh, that's fun. That's fun.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like she like, not goop.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  Right. But.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  I, I would love though, if like, they just went fuck it and made her like a hugely successful actress. Like that she that she won in the end.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  100% that's what it should be. And it should be.

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  Or singer, pop, whatever.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  It should, that's what it should be. It should be, she's a really successful actress. She actually made it. And they're trying to convince her to do an album and it's triggering. Because she have her music career the first time.

• 1:20:50Speaker 02

  Because guess what? Like, by the girls finale, we were, we were, you know, pounding the pavement, still are. But we were, we, you know, we, we, we were, we were like, all right, let's just keep this going. And weren't really sure if anything was gonna happen.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  I guess, I guess Hannah's gonna have a full.

• 1:21:07Speaker 02

  Hannah's had a full.

• 1:21:08Speaker 01

  A 10 year old? How long has it been?

• 1:21:12Speaker 02

  Uh, 2018.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  Whoa. So she'll have an eight year old or a nine year old by the time it comes out?

• 1:21:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Depending on if they.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  I'm thinking.

• 1:21:21Speaker 02

  See, that's Hannah and child scenes are gonna be fantastic. They're gonna find a great actor for that kid.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, that's gonna be good.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  I hope Riz Ahmed makes a return.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  I would love to see Riz Ahmed. By the way, I don't think I mentioned it, but Riz Ahmed is so good in Digger.

• 1:21:37Speaker 02

  Oh, great.

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  He's like my favorite performance on the whole thing.

• 1:21:39Speaker 02

  He's wonderful.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  He's so good.

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  Truly. Um, okay. Well, that's great.

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Do you like, did you like that?

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  Do you want to do top five pumpkins?

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  No, that sounds insulting.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  No, just like, because I want to make sure that you're happy.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  I'm thrilled. I have to pee.

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  Oh, you do?

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  You know what I'm not happy about? Went to the coffee place, tried to get the pumpkin, ice pumpkin spice thing. What's that? Why, why is it all on the ground?

• 1:22:06Speaker 02

  Syrup. Syrup, hon.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  Oh, now it's kind of breaking up.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you're, you could have done that in the beginning.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Is this ASMR?

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  Should we end the episode on this ASMR?

• 1:22:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  Pussy.

• 1:22:29Speaker 02

  Um, how do we end these episodes again?

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  I think we just sort of fade out.

• 1:22:35Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, this is, this is my favorite Billy Evans work. While he was, this is, this is, this is not a spoiler, Trevor. Uh, this is my favorite, favorite Billy Evans work when he was presumably, oh, oh, no, I guess at this point he wasn't. But Elizabeth Holmes did tweet back in 2018 or something.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is so good.

• 1:22:55Speaker 02

  Fade into you. Fade into you.

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  As we.

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  They can never make me hater.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  They can never make me hate my queen Liz.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  You flopped, Nathan.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  Fade into you. You know what else is a good song? Has nothing to do with anything. And fade out on this. I'm building a mystery. Know that one?

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  Sarah McLachlan?

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 1:23:24Speaker 01

  She wasn't really your culture, huh? All right, when we go home.

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  Home.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  The home that we share. When we go home later, babe, um, I'm gonna play you Sarah McLachlan. Idiot, I do believe I found you. Not bad. Kind of warm today. We gotta go.

• 1:23:45Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 1:23:47Speaker 02

  Last Cultureist is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio Podcasts.

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Executive produced by Anna Hosni and produced by Becca Ramos. Edited by Hot Dog Sandwich. And our music is by Henry Kbersky.

• 1:24:04Speaker 01

  Hey, everybody. It's me, Matt, and my tour is on sale now. This time it's really Christmas. You can go to www dot mattrogersofficial dot com. Podcasts are a visual medium. If you're not watching me right now, I am holding in my hands my vinyl. It's called Have You Heard of Christmas? The answer to that question is coming. At this time, it's really Christmas. I'm playing all over the country and in London and in Canada. That makes it a world tour. Harry Styles, you're on burn notice. I'll see you soon.

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  This is Jonas Knox from Two Pros and a Cup of Joe. Buy smart drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota Ford Ability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest lasting trucks.

• 1:24:51Speaker 03

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• 1:25:32Speaker 03

  Pluvicto can be used before chemotherapy for some people. Pluvicto is a prescription treatment used to treat adults with prostate-specific membrane antigen positive metastatic castration resistant prostate cancer or PSMA positive MCRPC, who have already been treated with hormone therapy and are considered appropriate to delay chemotherapy. Pluvicto involves contact with radioactivity, which may increase the risk for cancer and cause fetal harm. Drink plenty of fluids, urinate often, use contraception, and talk to your doctor about ways to reduce the risk of exposing others to radiation during and after treatment. Pluvicto can cause low levels of blood cell counts, kidney problems, and infertility. Tell your doctor if you have weakness, pale skin, shortness of breath,

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  bleeding or bruising more easily, an infection or changes in urination. Side effects include decreased blood cell counts, tiredness, dry mouth, nausea, appetite loss, joint or back pain, and constipation. Ask your doctor about Pluvicto because every day without cancer progression is a victory. Visit pluvicto dot com to learn more.

• 1:26:30Speaker 05

  What's that?

• 1:26:30Speaker 03

  My fresh detector.

• 1:26:32Speaker 05

  Uh, your what? There it is. What is it detecting? Fresh produce, fresh meat. Okay, what happens if it detects something really fresh?

• 1:26:44Speaker 05

  Apparently we celebrate.

• 1:26:46Speaker 06

  At Food Lion, you can count on fresh food at fresher prices when your fresh detector is going off. Head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com.

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:27:28Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.