"Boobs and Alphapussy" (w/ Gina Gershon)

The legendary Gina Gershon joins Matt and Bowen to discuss concerts, chance encounters with Sarah Vaughan and whether it's better have a Solly Bowles who can actually SING. After sharing about her beautiful friendship with Laurie Anderson and Lou Reed, the boys embark on very educational demos on being an Alphapussy (title of memoir AND ep...) with varying degrees of success. Plus some fiery IDTSHs on film ratings, tacky billionaire boobs and Waymos. Read the book and watch "Bound" on Criterion you brown-rice-and-vegetable freaks! See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:53Speaker 03

  Look, man. Where? Oh, I see. Wow. Why? Bowen, look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas.

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Ding dong, Las Culturistas calling. Couple of things to just call out right away. My girl is still going through it.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  I will not let it affect my job.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  No, and I never thought you would, and that is a testament to your professionalism, your talent. There's a lot of that in the room today, and we'll get to it.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  There's a lot of that in the room. I wanted to, I wanted to dress in my Gina Gershon drag today.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  You kind of did.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  But I think I look like Wong Kar Wai or John Woo. I look like, my, my life looking like a, like, my life a John Woo movie. No, my life a Wong Kar Wai movie, because it's green. These, these glasses is green.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  And you said you look like a Chinese director, and I said, maybe you will be one day. Maybe you're dressing for what you want to be. You could direct the way you order me around. Well, no one knows at home, is I'm constantly bound. I'm in a bound situation.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Bound, and we, and we face off.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  After a cocktail.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  I never direct you.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  You kind of don't, but you do subtly. You do in ways that would be very alluring as an actor on a set. I'm just saying, the way you sort of, you know.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  What would your directorial style be?

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Very direct, loud, kind of like, you, there, you, here.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  No, here, here.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm, I like to direct.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Let me hear you, let me hear your best. Let's go again.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Let's go again?

• 2:24Speaker 02

  That's really good.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  That, uh, wait, uh, hmm, wow.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Let's go again.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. That's really good.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Kind of remain encouraging.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  Can I try?

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Go ahead.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Let's go again.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Really good.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  No, Gina doesn't like it.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  No, that was a little bit, it was a little dismissive of everyone's work.

• 2:45Speaker 02

  Hold on, I need some runway into it. Okay. Okay, cut. That was great. Let's go again. And this time-

• 2:51Speaker 01

  You seem bored.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  No, no!

• 2:52Speaker 01

  You seem bored to me.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  I'm processing the no that I'm about to give.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  You know who's heard every version of this? Because she's worked with every single one of them in the industry. I was, I'm over 150 film credits, film TV credits, spanning decades, an enduring, versatile, multi-hyphenate legend.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  You say her name and everyone straightens up their spine. I can't because of my injury.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  No. But we're gonna, I just want everyone to know that as a result of our guest being here, we are hot on the trail to a cure. Because I knew our guest knew someone who was a bodywork professional. And wouldn't you know it, Brian-

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Brian.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  You're a text away from fixing Bowen Yang.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  Not, not, not tonight. We've got a full night ahead of us.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  And not to put pressure on you.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  Not to put pressure on you, Brian.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  No pun intended.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Very good. She is somehow our dear friend.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  One of my, everyone talks about this friendship, like, oh, lost coach. My favorite friendship is you and our guest.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  I can't believe this is, this is real. Anyway, her fantastic new memoir, Alpha Pussy.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Best title of the year.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Best title of the year. How I Survived the Valley and Learned to Love My Boobs. And I want to talk boobs because I'm a boob gay, as we know.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  You always do.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  And I think you have an affinity for boobs as well.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  I love the guys. I love the gals. I love them.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  The front ass.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  I love those chesticles.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Chesticles. I love our guest so much. I can't believe she's finally here. We talked about this a while ago. Thank goodness.

• 4:25Speaker 03

  We did.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Everyone, welcome.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  Gina Gershon! Welcome to the chair.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  Oh my god, it's so fun to watch you guys talk. Let me just say one thing. I have to address a few things that you said. First of all, John Woo, you would be only so lucky to look like him. He is, I think, hands down, the most elegant director I've ever worked with.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 4:48Speaker 03

  Always just looked just so. And even though he'd walk around going, "Oh, I need more money." I'm like, "You have ninety-nine million dollars, John. Is that enough?" But he would always look so, like, sexy and sophisticated and cool.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  And that is how Bowen Yang would be as a director, I think. Sophisticated.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  I'm doing that every day in my damn apartment.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  No, I think you look, I think you look really good. I didn't know you were trying to do me in this. What's, what's the shirt that you're...

• 5:12Speaker 02

  The shirt is...

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Thank you for calling out the shirt.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  I wore this before, but it's Celine.

• 5:16Speaker 03

  Of course. It's really good.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  We are gonna go, we're recording this on Tony Noms Day.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Very excited. Congrats, Titanic.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  Congratulations, you guys.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  The show was fantastic. It was their opening night.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Oh my god, because we were, because you texted me, are you gonna be there?

• 5:34Speaker 03

  Some like other people. I wasn't gonna bring it up. You guys went there.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  We had to miss opening night of Titanic.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  I'm like, "Are you gonna be there?" And he's like, "Mm."

• 5:42Speaker 01

  We were at Coachella.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  But that looked like a fun fucking night.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  So fun.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  It was so, I hadn't seen the show.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Really?

• 5:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it was my first time.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  Review, thoughts?

• 5:50Speaker 03

  I thought it was just so fun.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:53Speaker 03

  Everyone's having the best time. And it's just, it's, it's pure, it's everything you want it to be.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  It's the coolest because we saw it when it started at the old UCB Theater, but it wasn't the UCB Theater anymore. It was in the basement of Agrestides. What was that theater called?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  It was called Asylum.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Asylum Theater. Tiny, tiny. Not that many seats.

• 6:12Speaker 03

  The one on Twenty-seventh or Twenty-six?

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Twenty-six.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Oh, wow.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Twenty-sixth and eighth.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  It used to be the old UCB, and then Matt came on this podcast, uttered the words, "You have to go see Titanic."

• 6:23Speaker 01

  I, we, we were so, it was, the first person I thought of was him because...

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Of Celine and Titanic.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  French-Canadian legend. Um, but it's, it's...

• 6:32Speaker 03

  She's hysterical.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  She's just the best. And it's one of those things that you know was born out of love for making people laugh and feel good. And that's why I'm so proud of it, because it doesn't...

• 6:41Speaker 02

  Feel corporate, it made it like the little engine that could.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  And also it's like just watching it, you're just so you you feel that and I kind of knew it. And you're like, oh, my God, I'm at their opening night on Broadway and you could tell they were all like, what? I can't believe we're here. So that was really special.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  It's really great.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  You could do Celine, I think. You could play Celine in that show.

• 7:02Speaker 03

  Ah, could I sing Celine? It's a little high.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  If you've done Sally Bowles, you can do Celine Dion.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  Nah, but Sally. Yeah, except I always had the cushion of Sally. Because when I first started doing it, they're like, you know, she doesn't really need to sing. And I'm like, oh, honey, I'm singing those songs.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  And we appreciate it when Sally can sing.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Right? I mean, and he's like, yeah, but she shouldn't. And he's like, and she shouldn't really dance. I'm like, I can deconstruct the dancing. That that'll be fun to do. But, you know, you just want to sing the shit out of it.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Why wouldn't they want you to dance, though? Because you're you're a well regarded documented dancer.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Lover.

• 7:37Speaker 03

  Except because in the Sam Mendes version of Cabaret, I mean, Sally Bowles traditionally wasn't that good.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:44Speaker 03

  You know, and so she was a little screechy or she was like, kind of. So I'd mess up some of the dance moves and just kind of like go. You know, like you catch it up and, you know. One time, though, I, oh, my God, the scariest moment, and this is the first time, this is the only time this has really, really, really happened to me. Because I only had, they gave me three weeks, you know, before I said, listen, I don't, I've never, I'd never like come in to replace someone on a show.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:12Speaker 03

  So I just said, listen, all I care is that I get one day with Sam Mendes. I said, I just, I will do everything. You tell me where to go, but like, let me just do my own thing. And Sam's like, and I'm like, if you want me to go here instead, I'll do it. Just give me a shot to do my own thing, right? Of course. And so and I came in two weeks because I was away on a vacation, but the girl, one of the women I was with, she had Sally's voice. I'm like, oh, great. I'll just work on my accent. I'll work on my songs. And I'll go in and I'll have all that stuff in my head. Anyway, the first night everyone was like, are you nervous? Are you nervous? I'm like, no, I'm fine. Just tell me where to go. I don't get nervous. I just get like shoes are here, entrance is here, you know. But it was as. You know, I was going on that little voice is like, you are singing and dancing on Broadway.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  How do you know? You remember? I'm like, shut the fuck up. I cannot listen to you right now. Just like, just get out of my. It's like, what if you, I don't want to hear. I don't want to talk to you. Anyway, I make it through. But about like five or six days later, I was on doing like, Don't Tell Mama. And I had friends in the audience as well. Blank.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  No.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  Literally. And all of a sudden, like, the words just went like, and I just said, just keep dancing. I was like, like, all of a sudden, I was in Singapore or somewhere. I just started singing something, but like, and adding a little crackle to it. And it's in case someone's noticing, they're like, oh, there must be something wrong with the thing. So I was like,

• 9:37Speaker 03

  and then until I finally found my way again. No one knew.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Why, but?

• 9:40Speaker 03

  I said backstage, they're like, are we in Singapore? And I said, I did. I, for some reason, I started singing in Mandarin or something.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  But you were compelling and you kept telling a story.

• 9:50Speaker 03

  And the, you know, it just goes to show, if you just sell it, and I kept the tune, I kept the dance, it like, no one knew.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Goes to show, the audience is stupid.

• 9:58Speaker 03

  They're not stupid.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  But wait, but and, and are you also saying?

• 10:02Speaker 03

  But they don't know all the words.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  They don't know all the words. Are you, but are you also saying that like Sally in character would probably do that kind of thing? Maybe.

• 10:10Speaker 03

  May, maybe they thought, oh, that nutty Sally. I was just thinking, oh, blame the technology. So I was like, cracking. They were like, oh, it was so great, but then I couldn't understand, you know, when the crackling of the, I know that mic. That mic today really fucked me up, but I kept going. I don't know what I was doing.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  This was the track that was set by Natasha Richardson originally.

• 10:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  So it's interesting because of course, the one that's been, that has been going was started in the West End and Jessie Buckley originated it. And that one is more sung. Like, she's definitely.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  Well, she's got a great voice.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  She's got an unbelievable voice and I feel like it only. If you don't know, if you didn't know, you didn't know, but now people are really knowing the breadth of what she can do vocally.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  She is incredible.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Unbelievable, but I will say, it does feel really nice to hear that score really sung well. And I know that that's

• 10:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  A common refrain about Sally Bowles, like, well, you know, it doesn't have to be. It's better if it is.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  It's better.

• 11:05Speaker 03

  I mean, with those songs, it's a shame not to. I mean, I saw one actress doing them who really couldn't sing. I will not name who it was. It kind of bummed me out.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:13Speaker 03

  I was just like, you know what, like, maybe you sing it well and every now and then you could do an oopsie on purpose. But you know, you could, you can orchestrate that a little bit, but I don't know, especially like maybe this time, which wasn't the like, it's such a gorgeous song.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Beautiful.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  I don't want to not sing it.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 11:31Speaker 03

  You know, but anyway, it's.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  But that was one of the only moments that's happened where it went fully.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  What do you think was happening?

• 11:39Speaker 03

  I, I don't know. I think I got too cocky, like, oh, two weeks, I got this Broadway, I'm nailing this. And I went out and it just, something just went boom. And I'm like.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Terrifying.

• 11:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, it was kind of terrifying, but you know, your brain goes, does somersaults. And so I made it work and no one was the wiser, except backstage.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Except backstage.

• 11:58Speaker 03

  They were just like, so are we in Singapore now?

• 12:01Speaker 01

  We are not sure of what.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  And I don't know why that was my go to place to go.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  We're communing with, with something.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Just something came through me.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Something came through.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Was it just that number or did it continue?

• 12:13Speaker 03

  No, it was just like, like eight bars or maybe 16 bars.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  Of Don't Tell Mama.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  I am shocked that, I mean, it must be an adrenaline thing, but there was one time at SNL when I felt like I was getting pushed out for Weekend Update. And something, something like flashed, it was an intrusive something where I was like. I'm going to faint.

• 12:37Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  And my head is going to slam into the desk on live television.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Do you remember what bit?

• 12:42Speaker 02

  It was like, um, Trade Daddy, uh...

• 12:46Speaker 01

  So early.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Early. It was like my second time. I was like, hey! And then I was like, uh, what if I just... I'm lightheaded. What if I just passed out on live television? And I'm like, I don't think it's ever happened before, on that show at least. Do you have, do you have like a...

• 13:03Speaker 03

  They probably would have laughed and applauded.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Well, they would have, everyone would have, because I feel like, because it's such a controlled atmosphere, everyone would assume it's part of the bit.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  Or maybe you were dehydrated.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Until they realized it wasn't.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  If I fully went unconscious, I probably was dehydrated. If I went fully unconscious and slammed headfirst into the desk, people would be like, oh my god.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  That is so unprofessional of him.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Or Bowen Yang is a committed sketch performer.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  He really is.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  His head exploded.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Have you, you've had moments where you've thought, oh no, something's gone horribly wrong?

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Hmm, I mean, there, I guess during, during the Christmas show when I'm touring, it's kind of just like, everyone's kind of like, whatever anyway, we're all just there for a good time. In a high-stake situation, I remember during my SNL audition, I felt, I remember I couldn't feel the blood in my feet. That was the first time I ever had that.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  I couldn't feel the blood in my feet and I realized I wasn't breathing, so I was like, oh god, remember to breathe.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Or you're gonna lose circulation.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Breathe into your toes.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then like, the thing about that experience is, it is the most intense audition experience you can possibly have. So after that, it's kind of hard to get stage fright or feel unprepared because of how intense that shit is.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  I'm kind of mad I never did that. I wish I had started my whole career doing SNL.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  I always wanted to do comedy, but then I went into a different thing. My mom kept saying, you really should be doing comedy. I'm like, no, I'm gonna be a really serious actress. I can't do that right now. But why is it so intense? I, because all I keep saying is like, why can't I host? I want to host. And then you bring me in. Like, every now and then I get brought in, yours was the most fun, but...

• 14:38Speaker 01

  The bow and straight.

• 14:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  I mean, come on. That was iconic.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Every time Gina coming in looking... I'm sorry, I don't mean to objectify you and make this about your appearance.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Ravishing.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  But you, I'm always like, oh my god, like, I'm in love with you.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  And then we get to make out.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Well, you are the gay icon in many ways. I mean, like, the thing is, I think people, the one of the things like, the word underrated is thrown around so much, like, but the thing is, like, you really don't get the credit for, like, how the place that you hold in, like, queer audiences' minds. Or maybe you do feel like, like, that is a common thing that's said to you, but-

• 15:16Speaker 02

  And you feel like it's over-indexed, like, you're like, oh, the only people who come up to me are gay men.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  No, that's not true.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  That's not true? No, because you have such a wide audience-

• 15:23Speaker 03

  I mean, a lot of gay men do, but I'm also have, like, you could tell which movies.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Yes, you got the lesbians.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  If it's a face-off, it's like the straight men.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  Uh-huh. Bound is the lesbians.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Showgirls, the gay men.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  And then the teens and the Gen Z is Riverdale.

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Riverdale.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  And theater goers.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Theater, well, then there's people who just have seen me do music, or they know, like, the other books, like, they don't, they get confused. They're like, oh, I really like Cam Creepy Time. I'm like, great. They're like, wait, you act? And I'm like, yeah, I do that. Like, I have different weird worlds.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean?

• 15:52Speaker 02

  You've got video, you've got gamers now, after Borderlands, who are probably like-

• 15:56Speaker 03

  I think if Borderlands had done a little bit better.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  I don't know, it was a little bit, I wish I wanted that to do great, but-

• 16:02Speaker 02

  I know, but it's, you can't-

• 16:04Speaker 03

  I want, I got to play Monstee.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  But you and Kate had a blast.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  So much fun. She's so much fun. I'm going to do, you know, you and I did the How To Academy?

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Here in New York. I'm doing that with Kate in London.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  That was an amazing night, by the way.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  Wasn't that fun? You were incredible. I was so-

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  I've been really lucky, because I've had really good friends, you know. You've been amazing. I did one with Linda Perry in Los Angeles. And as we're walking on, you know, to do, you know, she's like, you know, Gina, I didn't read the book. I'm like, what? I said, wait, wait, what do you mean, you didn't read the book? She goes, you know, it takes me a really long time to read the book. I'm like, well, so do you want me to? Gina, no, no, we'll be fine. I'm like-

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Should I let you know about me?

• 16:45Speaker 03

  I said, no, I mean, she's really weak. I said, you can't talk about other things, you know, about me.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:50Speaker 03

  And then she's just like, oh, this book is so good. Let's just open up vampires. What do you think about vampires? It was the funniest talk ever. I mean, it was fine, you know?

• 16:59Speaker 01

  It's so funny you say that. I just fell down a Linda, um, Linda Perry rabbit hole the other- Night because I was for some reason the the writing of beautiful popped into my

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Gorgeous story about how Linda had written that for herself.

• 17:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  And, um, you know, it ended up Christina, her heart like went over her shoulder and was like, what's that song was like, I want to record that came in, they used the raw.

• 17:22Speaker 03

  It was Christina's first take.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  First take.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  And now Linda's coming out, she's singing again.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  And so she's, have you heard her version of it?

• 17:30Speaker 01

  No, but I need to do that.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  You must. Wow.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  You must.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  Is it, it's out?

• 17:34Speaker 03

  It's, it's, I think it's, it came out like this month or it's coming out this month.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  And she's sound, she's, you know, to me, Linda, when I first met her, I didn't meet her first. I heard her because we were at the same show singing and I was going on after whoever this Linda Perry was, I'm just like singing my song and I hear this voice.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  And I was just like, what the fuck?

• 17:55Speaker 01

  What's going on there?

• 17:56Speaker 03

  And I'm like, you need to turn my volume up because her voice is so big. I'm like, how does she sing so big? I was like, oh my God.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Power.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  She's got to me, one of my favorite voices of female rock and rollers.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  And I went and afterwards, I didn't know, I was just trying to write music because the pray for rock and roll is coming out. And then I had to go on tour and I'm like, oh my God, I got to write music because those songs didn't work. And I said, I, I said to Matt Sorum, who's the Guns N' Roses, he, I said, who's that girl? That's who I want to write with these like, yeah, get in line. I didn't realize she was so sought after.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  So I met her that night. I said, I just have a feeling, I said, I really want to write with you. She's like, yeah, like you and everyone else.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:37Speaker 03

  And then I just, she says, I, I, um, what's the word stalked her. I cause I kind of, what's that word that I call, like I'm saying, no, no. I find, I said, just give me an hour, give me an hour. And if we don't have fun, then we could, we'll have fun for an hour. Like then you could kick me out.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. This is incredible.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  This, this reminds me of the Sam Mendes thing where you're like, give me one blank.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Give me one blank with this person and if it doesn't work out, then it'll be fine. But it seems like you tend to, you tend to really get like, get it in the pocket.

• 19:09Speaker 03

  Well, Sam had already offered me the part.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 19:11Speaker 03

  Right? Which is like, there's, there's a whole story in the book about that, which is really funny. That deals with Joe Montello, who just got nominated for director and for his show, um, Death of a Salesman.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  So good, so good.

• 19:23Speaker 03

  So great. And I mean, I literally was like, I need to start like doing musicals now. Cause I just moved into, um, uh, an apartment of a singer. And I'm like, I used to be a song and dance girl. I don't know why we were so wasted. We couldn't remember why. And then I was like,

• 19:39Speaker 02

  Just New York.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  It was just, we were, it was out and it was, it was so long ago that you have like, uh, phone message machines. So when I, by the time I got home, I said, no, Joe, I think I need to start doing musicals. I was just a song and dance girl all the time. And then I just went away from it. Oh yeah. I get home and I hear like, you know, Jean at the, hi, this is Sam Mendes. I think he'd be brilliant, you know, doing, you know, cabaret. And I'm like, bam, Joe. So funny. Like,

• 20:05Speaker 02

  You thought it was Joe doing an impression of Sam Mendes?

• 20:07Speaker 03

  I was wasted. I was like, how did he get home so soon? Bam. My head hits the pillow.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:12Speaker 03

  And the next day I'm like, I listen to it again. I'm like, God, he really does a good English accent. I listen to it again. I'm like, I don't know. I think this might actually be Sam.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 20:21Speaker 03

  It was Sam. And I called Joe right away. I'm like, you can't believe it.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  And he was like, no. I said, yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  That's the thing about having such talented friends. You never know when people are doing an impersonation. Cause everyone's a whiz.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Everyone's a whiz.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  I never know when he calls me who it is.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I'm so good at impressions, as we all know. No, I'm not.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  But you do, you do know, this is all a testament to like, you do like have the coolest connections. Like, and like, it's because you are a nexus of that. Like it's, you're involved in the coolest stuff. You take risks. Like just hearing about how Bound came together and the belief that had to go into that being the success that it was.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Just the collaboration that has followed and I think been a theme.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I have, it's like I have a certain knack, like I could read people quickly. I'm one of those people, if in a room they come in and right away I'm like, not in a judgy way. I just, I like them or I don't.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Like there's an energy thing or like that person stay away from, you know? And I think with, I really like, I just have a thing for really talented people. Even if I don't know what they do, I'm like, oh, that person's so great. I just like, there's something that they have, whatever it is.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Is it a feeling you have or a sense you get from them?

• 21:39Speaker 03

  It's just an energy, it's like a frequency or something.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Did you and I meet at Carnegie?

• 21:44Speaker 03

  No, we met. It's so weird the night we met.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  We didn't, we didn't share scenes in Nora from Queens. I remember it was such a big day when, when like Nora was like, oh my God, Gina Gershon is coming in today. And we were like, oh my, I was like, oh my God, we got Gina? It was that, that was great.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  I didn't meet you there. No.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  It was not there.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  We, I mean, no, because I was writing that movie.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  And I remember like there was a character, and I've never done this before. And all of a sudden I kept thinking, what, and you came into my mind, I'm like, okay, just pretend it's, it's Bowen Yang and write it for that. I'm like, oh.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  I'm like, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, really amused. And then there was a, I don't know who was on SNL that night, but I was at the party. It was later at night.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  And then we, I said, oh my, and I saw you, I'm like, oh my God, you've been in my head all day. And then we just talked. And we like had a loving and then that was it. And then we didn't see each other until.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Until.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  Joan Baez or Lori was like, you guys go out and dance on Carnegie Hall.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  And then that was the week where we wrote, we, we brought back Bowen, Bowen is straight.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  No, that was the first one.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  That was the, was the first one.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  The Sydney Sweeney one.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  But so we wrote it for Dakota Johnson, it didn't go.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  And then we, we did a repass on it when, when Sydney Sweeney hosted and then Gary Richardson, our friend goes, I think it'd be really cool if Bowen, if Bowen's girlfriend, like, like whatever like situationship was with like.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Like this hot woman like Sidney, like that Sidney should get jealous of. Like, what about Gina Gershon? And I was like, I just sang with her onstage at Carnegie Hall on Monday. Laurie Anderson and Joan Baez.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  Put us together.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  It was so, it was so dumb. But wait, how did you and Laurie meet?

• 23:27Speaker 03

  Laurie and I, we met through Lou.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  Because I met Lou through Dave Stewart, who I met on Showgirls. Kind of saved my life during that time, which was insane. And Dave was playing with Lou, I think it was on Letterman, one night. And he's like, oh, why don't you come, you know, and like, we'll go out after or something.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Like Lou Reed was performing on Letterman or?

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Lou Reed, Dave Stewart, Boobs Collins. It was like, they were a super group. I don't know what they were, but Dave's like, just come and then we'll go out afterwards. And it happened to be Lou Reed's birthday. And he's like, you know, I feel like going downtown and like, you know, playing at some dive bar or something. And I'm like.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  That's a good Lou Reed impression.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Thank you. I do do really good impressions.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  And so we all went down. I happened to have my Jeez harp because I always usually have. In fact, I can't believe I didn't bring it today. I was racy. It's okay. And so they were all gonna play in some dingy bar. And I just said, hey, I've got this. And Lou's like, yeah, come on up and play. So I played with those guys and I was like, Boobs Collins, oh my God. And then when I was doing cabaret, see, I'm attaching all the things.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  I, he was coming, I had met Hal. I can't remember how I met Hal. But Hal and, and Lou came to see me do Sally because Lou was doing a project. And I think Hal said, oh, why don't we, Gina can maybe help us with actors or some, you know, he was doing the, the,

• 25:03Speaker 03

  Edgar Allan Poe's The Raven.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  And so I was so nervous that I'm like, Lou Reed's coming tonight. I'm like, oh my God, I've got to fucking, like, I didn't, I didn't really know Hal that well.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  Yet. And anyway, so we did it. I sang the shit out of it. And of course, they came up and I was, and Lou's, Lou's like, you know. I fucking hate musicals. And I'm like, ah. He said, but you know, that's pretty cool. He goes, you sang on key the whole time. And I was like, is that bad? Like, they make me, like, they make me sing. He's like, no, no, I was, how do you do that?

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:39Speaker 03

  And I said, you know, it's Broadway. You kind of have to, like, I'm so sorry. Like, I was like, but anyway, we became, we became friends. Um, it was kind of a nightmare doing the project because I brought in a bunch of friends and he, and everyone was like, oh, my God, Lou Reed. And they would do a reading and I'd be like, ah. And he'd be like, ah, can you just, uh, I don't know, can you just be better? And I'm like, ah, you can't talk to people like that. I said, we kind of like,

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Lou would say that?

• 26:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  He doesn't mince words and the other actors were like, oh, my God. But then we just, Lou and I became pals. And like Laurie was always on tour. And so we'd do like Eagle Claw together or we'd go like eat food. You know, he was really fun to eat food with because he's such a New York like. And then, but you know, and one day he goes, you know, Laurie, you should meet Laurie. I'm like, yeah, I would really like to meet Laurie. Not telling him that Laurie was like my idol.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Like she was, I mean, yeah, Lou Reed's cool, but I was like, like Laurie Anderson. And so, um, and I was also a little nervous because I'm seriously thinking, who's this chick? Like hanging out with my guy all the time. Right? Even though it was like, but, but you know, like we'd never met and Lou and I, we were hanging out, you know?

• 26:52Speaker 02

  It's a thing.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  And, um, so she was, so he said, just come on over, you know, she's, you know, here. And as soon as I walked in, you know, she's there with her little dimples in her dog. She goes, oh, hi, so nice to meet you. And she's just a slice of, I don't know, she's otherworldly.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  I know.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  She's just so, you talk about an energy and a frequency. Immediately, I'm just like, I love you. Like, I want to be like around you all the time. And, but we really didn't, after Lou died, we didn't really, we met, we, we accidentally met at some thing, some reading at some Tibetan thing. I don't know what it was. I can't remember. And I just said, uh, You know, hey, how are you doing? And she just seemed lost to me. She's like, I don't know. I said, are you, are you lost? And she just seems so vulnerable. I just wanted to hug her. She's like, yeah. Yeah, I, I, I said, well, you know, I'm, I'm here. If you want to like, you know, take a walk or if you want to go to dinner or a movie. She's like,

• 27:55Speaker 03

  could we go to India? And I'm like, uh, yeah, Laurie Anderson, sure, I'll go to India with you. Well, we never went to India. We became really great friends.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  That's got to fulfill that prophecy.

• 28:06Speaker 03

  I know. Um, but she, we just became really close and she's been a big influence in my life.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's beautiful.

• 28:12Speaker 03

  She's been very helpful to me in so many ways.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  You were prepared to like, offer that friendship to her in that moment, though, like, maybe like, years before that, it would have been, you would have felt to, uh, you would not have maybe felt brave enough to like, be like, we should, do you need anything? You look lost. Do you like, I think that, that takes a lot of courage.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  But she wasn't like Laurie Anderson to me at that moment. She was just like, uh, like,

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Someone who's dazed.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  A very pure, present, like, beautiful energy that just felt really vulnerable. And I just felt like, oh, my God, I need to, I want to protect her. You know what I mean?

• 28:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  I forgot about all that other stuff. I mean, and I do, I have so many, I do have friends who are so talented. I just love them. And then I go to see them perform. I'm like, holy shit, they're really incredible. Like, like, oh, my God, I, I forget.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Like, they're embodying a different energy.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 03

  But I think I'm friends with some of these people, you know, because I don't treat them like that. And we are just like this. And every now and then I'm like, holy shit, I'm glad I became friends with them before I started watching them else maybe I would have been too weirded out.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, interesting.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 29:23Speaker 02

  That's amazing that, uh, through Cabaret, though, through Hal bringing Lou.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  And Hal.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  It all sort of,

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  transpired that way. But I, oh, I'm going to 54 tonight to see Rocky.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  I'm dying to go.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  But wait.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Juliet's in there.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Yes, she's, she's perfect.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  She's the best.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  I can't wait.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  I love her.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  There's something about you performing at Studio 54. Before that feels just so, so scrumptious.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that movie was really fun.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  That's where Cabaret was.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  I know.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  I'm saying like, like you being there like feels very powerful. Like it's, it's New York on New York. It's just like, oh.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  They did the revival of that as well in that theater. I was at opening night of that with Alan Cumming and Michelle Williams.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Which, and it just to see that staging again was, and I'm so happy that that space got graced by his vision of it again, cause that was also San Mendoza.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Did it again.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  It was also great, cause like the, the first, the, the tables were like right there.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  And people were drinking and getting wasted. And so like you could really react to, you know, some people and it just felt like, it just made the whole atmosphere.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  It was a really shocking production, I thought.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  It was incredible.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Like it was, it was so cinematic and I was like, yeah, truly, you know, this, he obviously directs film and he brought that to the space. I just, it was the first time I saw a space really transformed. And you know, now they do it all the time, like Jamie Lloyd, the way that he transforms the space.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  But how much you can transform that space.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  It was also like you'd walk in the theater and like the Kit Kat girls, they were just so sleazy.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Immersive element.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  It smelled so nasty, like you were just in it. You know what I mean? It felt really, it was, it's, that was a really special production.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  No, they transformed it. They also did it in the West End and then which they also brought to New York. But I just, it's, it's such an important, great, enduring show.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 01

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• 31:20Speaker 02

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• 32:54Speaker 01

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• 33:00Speaker 02

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• 33:07Speaker 01

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• 33:11Speaker 02

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• 33:24Speaker 01

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• 33:33Speaker 02

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• 33:33Speaker 01

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• 33:34Speaker 02

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• 33:45Speaker 01

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• 33:53Speaker 02

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• 33:58Speaker 01

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• 36:46Speaker 02

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• 37:02Speaker 02

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• 37:15Speaker 01

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• 37:52Speaker 03

  But I don't know, I just feel, I just feel happy that like, I'm happy to be here with you guys.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  We're so happy you're here so that we can ask you the question, the central question of our podcast, which is.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Gina Gershon, what is the culture that made you say culture was for you?

• 38:06Speaker 03

  I, you know, I was thinking about this and I was, and I thought, God, this is a really good question. And I only, yeah, but it's a hard question because I'm like, what exactly does it mean? And the only thing that kept coming up in different forms was I remember. Not so much. I remember when I was younger and I saw my first theater piece and I just thought like, whoa, like, these are magic people, like, on stage. But I remember when my uncle took me to my first concert and I was like six. And it was like three dog night or something, but I'd never been to a big concert.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  And everyone sort of like lighting their lights and everyone was singing at the same time. It was so communal.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  And it was so, um, like, I, I just felt like this is really important. And I just went to go see, um, I mean, so many concerts, like, people don't know each other and they're all singing together. I just, you know, Noel and Gallagher.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  I was just gonna say, I just, I kind of, I wish that I had gone to the Oasis show.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I went to the Oasis show in London, right? And I have to say, there were so many, like, it was like real bro culture.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 39:12Speaker 03

  Right? Bros, bros. But these guys were like, mm, and drinking their beers, but then in the middle of songs, they're like turning around to strangers.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  And hugging each other and everyone's high fiving and I'm like, what is going on? This is so beautiful. Like, on a different time, maybe they would have been fighting.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Sure, sure.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Or it would have been too aggro or too macho. And I love that as a culture, because it's the only one that I really have witnessed, even more so than being like at a culty thing or a guru-y thing, because that, there's something fake to me about that.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  But that really people like love each other and it's, they come together and they sing together in all different walks of life.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  It's spiritual.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  It's spiritual. It can soften even a, a, an aggro guy like, like what you're describing. It can soften them to the point of just full tenderness.

• 40:00Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  Sports can't do that.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Like, guys that I would, like, watching going, God, this will be rough. Let's leave this place early because this is gonna get gnarly, you know, like.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Uh huh, uh huh.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  Just like literally hugging each other, hugging strangers, turning around, quack, oh.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  And I thought it softened them and it gave them a commonality, you know, on a spiritual level.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  And everyone's singing together. I just think there's nothing like it.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, you could lock eyes with someone and you're having a real, you're, there is like a little relationship in that moment and a shared.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  Yes. It's cool.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  And even if people, like, if you've seen concerts in different countries, right? With people singing, if it's, you're in Japan, or in Turkey, wherever you are, even people who don't speak English, they know all the words.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 40:43Speaker 03

  Right? And everyone's singing to, and it's just like, this is so incredible. It doesn't, like, your race, your creed, your color, whatever it is, like, where everyone is meeting in a common, beautiful space.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Well, you are the perfect person to ask this sort of cliche question, but I have a feeling you're gonna have a cool answer, and a bespoke answer. What was the live music moment of your life? Like, would you remember your best, you're not your first, not necessarily best, but like, what was the formative music, live music concert or moment for you?

• 41:18Speaker 03

  I feel, I knew like, three things popped in my head all at the same time.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  Um, well, I think that first concert, when it was just like, whoa.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Who was on stage again?

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Three Dog Night.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Three Dog.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  One is a lonely number. I was like, six. I was little.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Um, I remember, um, I mean, I remember going, well, God, like, they're flooding into my head now.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  I remember like, the first concert I went to on my own, like, you know, I think like, one of our mothers drove us or something, you know, but like, it was Jethro Tull.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  And I just remember feeling cool, cause I'm like, I'm at a show without my parents, or my sister, or brother.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  The atmosphere was like, something that like, made you empowered.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  It just, it was just me going to a show with my friends that made me feel cool, you know? But I remember, I, I, you know, it's so funny, I can't remember what I talked about in the book, or not anymore, cause it's all starting to mingle in my head.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  You know your life story now, yeah.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Well, it's just little weird moments, but, you know, I, I can't remember what I actually put in the book, and what I didn't put in the book.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  You tell me, you tell me what you think was in the book, and I'll tell you.

• 42:30Speaker 03

  Did I mention when, um, you know, my uncle was a, you know, he was a musician. He had orchestras, and he was a jazz guy, and he was doing some sort of show. I used to go. To like, you know, he used to do the Grammys and I'd go to like the rehearsals when they'd all dressed in their jeans.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love that.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  And like they were norm like, and I thought, oh my God, they're like normal people and they're so cool. And then you see them perform, you're like, okay, so there's two people.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  People and then like you're just wearing your jeans and your sneakers people. So that was cool, but I remember, I don't remember what it was for. I was little. I think my mom just dropped me off and, and I was, he was having, people come up and sing on stage and I was really tired. And there was a beautiful, kind of a, a black woman in a dress and she didn't have her shoes on. And she was sitting there and I just remember like going like, I was so tired. I just, I just kind of went over and like laid next, like laid on her kind of, you know, a little bit, because she just felt so warm to me and beautiful. And so I was leaning against her and she just put her arm around me and she just started humming. And I remember going like,

• 43:43Speaker 03

  whoa, like it, it was humming, but it went through my whole body. And then he was just like, all right, you know, Sarah, come on up and, you know, my, my woman.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  She went on stage?

• 43:55Speaker 03

  She went on stage to sing and I remember thinking, that lady's not wearing any shoes, like an adult, like who's not wearing any shoes going up on stage. You know, and then she started singing and I'm just like, my person's a really good singer. Like she was my person all of a sudden. I remember saying to Uncle Jack, like, I like her. Like I think she can really sing. He's like, yeah, that's Sarah Vaughan. She's a wonderful singer. But like, but I, she hummed and like it hummed through my body. I'd never, like I'd never seen, heard a voice like that.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  How old were you at the, within the?

• 44:30Speaker 03

  I must've been six. I was a skinny little thing. I mean, I literally just like plopped myself like this on her and she just kind of. You know, I was little enough to not have any shame. Like, I don't know you, but you look cozy. I'm like laying next, I'm like laying on you, basically.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  This is in LA?

• 44:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  This, and, and your uncle, so he, he, he's in the know because he, he's, he's, he's, he's scoring all these things. He's written all these, wrote the Charlie's Angels theme song.

• 44:53Speaker 03

  He wrote, my uncle is the coolest guy I ever knew. He started off before I was born, obviously. He was in Paris, living, get this, with Quincy Jones. They were studying under the same people, like these hot guys in their 60s. I mean, in, in 1960s, Bird Backrack was around as well, too. I'm always like, oh, well, Quincy, I used to like, tell me stories. He's like, mm, mm.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  You know, I'm like, you, motherfucker, you don't even remember. Just tell me something. But they, anyway, he was playing, they were all studying jazz, and so he was playing in some little bar. And then Judy Garland saw him. She brought him to the States to be, become her arranger.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:34Speaker 03

  And then from that-

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Jack?

• 45:36Speaker 03

  Jack, my uncle. And then he ended up doing TV and like variety shows. And then he ended up starting to, you know, he did like Barney Miller and, and Charlie's Angels and Where's Papa and The Jerk. And like he did-

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Charlie's Angels is a bop.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  Right?

• 45:52Speaker 02

  That is- It's a bop. That is enduring.

• 45:54Speaker 03

  That's when he got into that, had that sound. But then he, his real love was, you know, he had an orchestra. And he put all these great musicians together, the Jazz Symphonic Orchestra. And so they would, you know, showcase new, you know, arrangements and new composers. And then he'd have shows and it was really fun.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  I put forth like a pretty flawed thesis at the, at your How To Academy Q and A. I was reading the book and I was like, I think the common thread here is that men were disgusting towards you, your whole life. And I want to take that back because I feel like I am not accounting for the men who were- Who really like opened your eyes to things and and and

• 46:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Saw you for who you were as this talented, amazing person.

• 46:42Speaker 03

  Well, you were just talking about, cause like the valley stories.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  The valley stories, like the child molesters, like it's it's.

• 46:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, child molesters and all the rapists and stuff like.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Growing up in the valley when the porn industry was being created, which meant that there were not exactly boundaries.

• 46:56Speaker 03

  No, it was a very toxic world and it was, you know, the helicopter parent hadn't been invented yet. So it's like, you know, be home, Gigi, be four or six. And I'm like, okay.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Nothing bad can happen.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  We grew, we grew up in that moment. Like, I think we were one of the last, I mean, I'm sure it still happens, but like, I remember, I remember like, okay, just like, we would just run off for miles.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  As long as we were home by like six.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  But even that, I remember my dad being like, um, at the time of, of that being true, like you take your bike out and go wherever. My dad was like, you know, I used to ride my bike to Shea Stadium, hop the fence.

• 47:27Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  And we lived on Long Island. And like, he would just, he would just ride his bike for like, a long way.

• 47:33Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  And hop the fence at Shea. No one was none the wiser by himself as a kid.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  To see a concert or?

• 47:40Speaker 01

  No, to watch the Mets play.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  I see.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  And how old?

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Seven, eight, nine years old, like young.

• 47:46Speaker 03

  It was a different sort of world. I mean, now everyone's so, I mean.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Older than that, probably like 11, 12, you know, I'm, but, but young.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  That's a long way.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  You're a child and you're, you're out there. So it's just like the, the abandon with which you were able to live your life as a coming of age person in the, you know, in the valley at that time, it had to be like, like a licorice pizza vibe.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  It's, it's very much. I mean, I always tell, you know, Paul, I'm like, we have, cause we had similar upbringings.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  PTA, yeah.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  PTA. But, um, I said, I have like the female version. I sent Maya and Paul a book. I don't know if they've read it yet, but you know, I'm like, this is like my is, it's my version with boobs.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Coming, but like the, the, you know, the waterbed store, the, we had the licorice pizza. We had the, the other record store where I stole my first record.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 03

  What I was thinking, I don't know, Led Zeppelin four, like an album. I stole the album under my thing.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:42Speaker 03

  I mean, crazy. That was really nuts. Um. But yeah, it was a different sort of time and you know, all those people were around. We just weren't aware of it, you know, so you kind of were left on your own devices. That's like kind of the whole, I started getting, I didn't realize I was right so much of that. But then the valley stuff just started, I'm like, why am I thinking of this? And then these memories started coming back and I'm like, wow, it's kind of a gnarly childhood. And everyone's like, oh, how did you get so tough? And I'm like, well, God, I just, I, you almost had to be in order to survive like bad situations. But when you're younger, you don't think about it as like, oh, I'm surviving. You're just like, okay, don't get killed by that guy. Get out of here. These are bad guys. And just, so you just go, go, go.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  And it wasn't until I started writing it, I'm like,

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, wow, I'm a, I've survived.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  I was really like slightly traumatized and kind of scared all the time. But you just had no time to be scared. You just,

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're on alert the whole time. So there's no time to be like, I've had to be on alert. You're just on alert.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  You're just on alert. It's just like danger, danger, boop, boop. And it kind of gives you a sense of like danger at two o'clock across the street over here. You know, so it was kind of, it was good training for like living in New York and then Hollywood, you know, and the rest of the world, you just all of a sudden know how to deal with weird stuff, you know?

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Well, you talk about, I mean, this, the, the story behind alpha pussy being, well, why don't you tell it? How, how did you arrive at a title like this for everyone that's?

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, because everyone thinks, oh, alpha pussy, but it's really not.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  Maybe it's just salacious, but there's actually, there's real strength in how you arrived.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, okay, so when I became aware of it, um, I, I just remember, and, and I became super aware of it. Cause I used to use the term and I used to like use the, I didn't know it was a philosophy until there was an aha moment. When I remember after I'd gotten showgirls and I was really excited, you know, because it was like a big break for me. And I got to dance and I got to play, ooh, I'm Margot now instead of Eve. In my head, it was all about Eve, right? I'm like, ooh, and you know, I was like, this is such a cool part like, um, and then I remember male, like executives or agents, I'd go to Parties and you know, it's that moment like you're in Hollywood like, oh, I finally have something cool that I'm doing. So when people are like, oh, what are you doing? Cause that's what they always

• 51:01Speaker 03

  ask. And instead of feeling like a loser, I'm just like, oh yeah, I'm doing showgirls. But they'd be like, hey, so I see you're doing showgirls. And they would stare at my chest, go down my body. And I found myself like covering, like crossing my arms and getting very intellectual, like, oh yes, you know, Paul Verhofen, you know, his Dutch films are really incredible. I'm gonna spitters. I mean, the way he moves, I can't, I'm thinking, what the fuck are you talking about? As I was backing away and talking like this.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:31Speaker 03

  And about the fourth time that happened, I thought, what is going on? Like, I'm actually really excited and I'm being made to feel weird and defensive.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  Minimizing yourself.

• 51:41Speaker 03

  Minimize myself and getting very, I mean, really like, like this. And I thought about, I, for some reason, my cat flashed in my head and I've always had male cats, like kind of wild, you know? And the thing about a male kitten, especially if they're a little bit feral.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Just a little bit.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Just a little bit. Well, they're off the street. They're, you know, they're like rescue kitties.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  You know more than I do. I'm just making a stupid joke.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  No, but they, but I'm sure a certain pedigree cats, maybe they don't do it. I don't know. I've never had one.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  I'm obsessed with this philosophy though, that you're about to describe.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  Okay. So anyway, the thing is when you have a wild cat, you know, they, they, you know, scratch you and they jump on you and they start, you know, wreaking havoc everywhere. And so I would like stare at the kitty and they would stare at me like when they're really little, you know, and you just like stare, stare. You have a staring contest and if you look away for a second, they will fucking attack you. They like jump on your head. So you can't. So I would just stare, stare, stare, be, and all of a sudden at some point they go. And they roll on their back.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  They cave.

• 52:50Speaker 03

  Therefore, making me the alpha pussy.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Gotcha.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  Right?

• 52:53Speaker 02

  And they will never, and they will never try to reclaim that.

• 52:56Speaker 03

  They, they will, but like a certain boundary has been, and all of a sudden you can say no. And they, they, it's like how you break that energy. And I thought about it. And so the next time one of these guys came up to me and he was like, you know, ooh, showgirls. I just, I remember like looking him right in the eye and just saying, oh yes, it'd be so great. I'm gonna be dancing naked, kissing guys, kissing girls. This would be so much fun. I was so nice, but I kept that eye contact, eye contact, eye contact. And then he went, oh yeah, that, that's cool. And he backed up and he looked away.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  And I thought, oh my God, this is everything.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  I'm the alpha pussy.

• 53:33Speaker 03

  It's, you gotta alpha pussy the shit out of these situations. And you know what? And it, it works. And I realized I do it a lot. You know who just did it recently? Not to bring in a whole other big energy, but she was talking about this moment. I'm like, oh my God, alpha pussy the shit out of that moment. I mean, you can cut this part out if you want, but it's gets kind of, you know, have you been following? Did you follow the, uh, the Giselle, uh, oh my God, how do you say it? Pellicle?

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Pellicle?

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Pellicle.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, oh.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  She's the woman. She's the woman, the French woman who's, was married for like a zillion years. And then her husband had been dosing her and raping her with different people. And she found out that it's a horrible story. This French woman, she's got kids and like this and that. And then all of a sudden he gets arrested. She finds out not only had he been dosing her, right? But then like he'd been bringing all these people in to sleep with her and filming it.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  Horror.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  By the way, there's a whole weird culture going on out there about this.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  65 million members on that.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  Isn't that insane?

• 54:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:38Speaker 03

  Anyway, so of course, by the time she finds out, of course, you talk about betrayal and just like, what?

• 54:47Speaker 03

  They go to, to, uh, they go to, um,

• 54:51Speaker 01

  The French.

• 54:52Speaker 03

  The trial.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  The trial.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  No, no, oh, no, he's in jail.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  And now there's gonna be the trial and all the people are gonna come. And of course, everyone's assumes, cause in a case like that, where, you know, she's the victim, you know, um, that she's gonna say, no, I want a closed, uh, you know, case. I don't want to be talking about all this stuff in public. And so they ask her the question. She says, no, no, I'd like it all to be open.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  Like everything public, everything on, you could film it, you do everything. And you could see the guys who are being tried, kind of like, what? And, and there was this one moment that she was talking and she said, she goes, and he's one man who had raped me. She goes, forgive my accent and I don't mean any disrespect to her. She goes, but he stared at me. He like was looking at me, like staring at me, like, like to intimidate me. And I just looked right back at him. I looked at him without any shame, like I'm like, I'm not the victim. He's the victim.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  Or I'm the victim here. Why should I feel ashamed? He should feel ashamed. She was, and I looked at him and he finally looked away and I knew I'd, you know, and she'd won. It was a pure.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  It was pure alpha pussy.

• 55:59Speaker 03

  Alpha pussy.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  And it was just like standing her ground in the face of this. And she goes, why should I turn away? He should be ashamed. Why should I be ashamed? I loved, I love, I, she is really incredible.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  That's.

• 56:12Speaker 03

  That story.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  I mean, just even like the power of that, just holding someone's gaze. Like it's, it's why people sometimes won't even look you in the eye to begin with. Exactly. It's like when I just, I'm thinking of when Pam Bondi wouldn't look at any of.

• 56:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:27Speaker 03

  My dad used to always like, if I had a date who came over and afterwards, of course, I'd always say like, what'd you think? He goes, I didn't like him. He goes, he wouldn't look me in the eye.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 56:37Speaker 03

  Cause he would shake their hand and say, hey, and he would just really look at them. And if they looked away, he goes, no, he goes, they're dodgy. They're hiding something.

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• 57:55Speaker 02

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• 57:56Speaker 01

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• 58:03Speaker 02

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• 58:26Speaker 01

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• 58:35Speaker 02

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• 58:43Speaker 01

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• 58:55Speaker 02

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• 59:01Speaker 01

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• 1:00:05Speaker 02

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• 1:00:34Speaker 01

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• 1:00:48Speaker 02

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• 1:00:59Speaker 01

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• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  Introducing M&M's Caramel you already love now popped into a totally new texture.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  I'd say M&M's are one of those. Those truly iconic snacks.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  They've just launched a brand new freeze dried innovation that brings a whole new vibe to the M&M lineup.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  I mean, come on. What's not to love about M&Ms?

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  And if it's freeze dried, I feel like I'm in space. M&Ms continues to be that girl. The crunch is unexpected in the best way.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Way crisper than you'd think. Like, you bite into one and there's the little pop that you don't see coming from something that still tastes like classic M&Ms caramel.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  Sure, they don't look exactly like the M&Ms you know, but they are the M&Ms you love. They're perfect for snacking when watching television, scrolling on your phone, or settling in for a movie.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  And I'm already thinking they'll be great to have on Hanlow watching the Culture Awards.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  Yes. The best part is they've got that classic M&Ms caramel flavor. It's available in stores now. I tried to do an alpha pussy demonstration role play.

• 1:02:13Speaker 03

  You did?

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  And I feel like I didn't fully come prepared.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  When did you?

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  At the Q and A, at the How To Academy. I mean, I feel like I want to try it again.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  So pretend I'm a very seedy guy. And I think you should try this too when I fail.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:32Speaker 03

  You don't have to fail.

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  Hey Gina, congrats on the new book.

• 1:02:36Speaker 03

  Thank you so much, Bowen. Thank you.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  I love how you included boobs in the title. Really turns me on.

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  Well, you know, boobs is kind of a, it's like how boobs, like, then act differently and people start acting differently.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Right. I go a little feral for them.

• 1:02:52Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  Myself.

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, well, it was really nice talking to you.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  Wow. You might have chased yourself away with saying, I go.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Feral for them myself.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  If you can maintain eye contact after that with anyone, you are a psychopath.

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  But then, see, I just kept looking at you and just letting you speak.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  And then all of a sudden, you realize you were sounding weird, so you just kind of got out of it.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it wasn't, I was, I fully, I fully went in expecting to like stand down, but I didn't expect it to be.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  You gave yourself up.

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  I gave myself up.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  And it's, you know, there's a power, I like, and I'm just learning it too, by the way, of just, and it's been interesting on this because people come up and they start telling me stories.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  And sometimes people just like want to be heard, so you just like let them speak and you just listen to them. But if someone's like digging themselves in a hole instead of saying, you're an idiot, you just kind of go.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. It's so much more powerful. I, I think it's actually quite, um, you give something away if you call someone something.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not powerful. That's like when people are like, uh, it's not powerful.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  It's not.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  Be very quiet and pleasant. It's almost like a mirror shows and they're, they almost see themselves being like, like, I'm a douchebag.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  Or I don't know.

• 1:04:12Speaker 02

  I, I felt that way.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  I was like, oh, I'm a fucking gross peon.

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can see that in your eyes and it's fun to watch them do that.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  The most powerful people don't rush to respond.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  It's so true. And I think it's also because they're not betraying any anxiety.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  I feel like sometimes what keeps me verbally processing is anxiety and I, telling yourself that helps. But it is, it is true. The things that sit in my mind that I replay over and over are interactions I've had where I feel like I spoke too much.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  You said too much.

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's out of insecurity. And it's like, and we just want to fill the space, but like to be able to like hold silence and just to look at someone is really powerful.

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  That's not easy to, okay, I, would you, would you like to try? I, I kind of want to try being the alpha pussy.

• 1:05:01Speaker 03

  You want?

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  I want to.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Okay, I'll, okay, I'll, I'll do it to you.

• 1:05:04Speaker 03

  You do him.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  Hey Bonn, what's going on?

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  Hey Matt, I'm good. How are you?

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  Nah, I'm, I'm okay. I'm just, uh, you know, I can't help but be a little distracted.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  By what?

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  You're thick.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  Where?

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  You're thick all over babe. I mean, it's crazy.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  I just went to a physical therapist today who said I had low gluteal strength, but thank you.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Well, uh, I mean, he might be a professional.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  She.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Whatever. She might be a perfec- you said she?

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  She was a physical therapist, yes. Her gender was, well-

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Well, I'm as male as they come. What does that do to you?

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  Um, I'm pretty neutral on that actually.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  You're neutral on me?

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  I'm neutral on men in general.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  Neutral on men in general, maybe you haven't been with a real man yet.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  I've been with plenty of real men.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  I don't know that that's true.

• 1:05:50Speaker 02

  Do you think you're man enough for me?

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  I know I'm man enough for you.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Gina, Gina, are you saying something?

• 1:05:54Speaker 03

  You're, you're, you lost your thing right there.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  Wait, what?

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  I won!

• 1:05:58Speaker 03

  No, no. Boys, it's not about winning.

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  Where did I lose?

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  You got defensive and you said, "I've been with plenty of men."

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  So you're not even supposed to defend?

• 1:06:07Speaker 03

  No. Why? Why lower yourself to that? Why lower yourself to that?

• 1:06:12Speaker 02

  Let's try it again, let's try it again. Okay.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  New interaction.

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  New interaction.

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  You know what, can I just give you a hint?

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, please, please.

• 1:06:18Speaker 03

  A little direction?

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  Mmm, I'm gonna hum, I'm gonna wanna get hurt.

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  I just think when in doubt, just have compassion for the person. Like, why are they such a dick?

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Totally, and, and, and I was, I was filling the silence too much.

• 1:06:28Speaker 03

  And you could use that in your head as a way of, of strength. Okay, go ahead.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  Bon Yang.

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  Hi, Matt Rogers.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  What's up?

• 1:06:36Speaker 02

  Not much. How are you?

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  Congrats on everything. You're amazing.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  You'll have to be more specific.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  I mean, it's hard to be when I see you crushing it every single second. It's like from Wicked to SNL to Lost Coach. You're amazing. It's very attractive to see you succeed.

• 1:06:54Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, no problem.

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  Can I just stop this right now?

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  You were, you're, you're just flirting with me.

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  No, you're like flirting. You're not doing, you're not giving the toxic vibes.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's because I was about to slip in.

• 1:07:07Speaker 03

  Oh, did I cut you off?

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  And it's also because I know he hates this.

• 1:07:10Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  So it's very attractive to see you succeed. Really is.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  Gets you hard.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  You wanna be all forward about it? Yeah, it gets me hard. But it's already, it's been getting me hard for years. That's not new.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  I'm so interested as to why you're telling me this now.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Why? You're here, I'm here, two guys. What's the big deal? I've always thought, what's the big deal? You know what I mean?

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  Are you employing silence to try to get me to spin out, babe? I'm not gonna spin out. I feel very good about the way I feel and what I'm saying.

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't have to employ anything.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Mm, you can employ me. Take care of that ass. Noon and night.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  I'm so confused.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  I bet you are. That's how I like 'em. Confused. I come in, don't know which way is up. Asses and elbows, babe.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  I'm a confusing fuck.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  Asses and elbows.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  I'm a confusing fuck. You're gonna be thinking about it for a very long time. You can talk to your therapist about it. You in therapy?

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  Definitely, and-

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Would've been hotter if you weren't.

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  I don't think you should advertise being a confusing fuck.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  You think I care about what you think?

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Any confusion during sex is potentially legally troubling for you.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Do you feel like you're in trouble right now? Do you feel like you're in trouble right now?

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  I'm good. I'm all above board, babe.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  I like to see you sweat.

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  I'm not sweating. My follicles are dry.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  Ooh, follicles. Talk dirty to me. Use big SAT words, Bowen Yang.

• 1:08:51Speaker 02

  That's an anatomy word.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Oh, is it?

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  So you know the human body?

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  I won again.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  I don't know what that was.

• 1:09:02Speaker 03

  It was very entertaining. I don't think you're totally understanding the assignment.

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  I'm not. See, I'm such a little sub.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  I'm a brick house.

• 1:09:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:09:13Speaker 03

  You're, well, first of all, I don't think you were being intense enough.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  Oh, so you-

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  He was being so intense.

• 1:09:20Speaker 03

  No, but it was more of a flirty thing that-

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  He was flirting.

• 1:09:23Speaker 03

  It was too flirty, and you're too like, Bowen and Matt. It's almost if like, if it was a pers- if, let's say you didn't know him at all, and he came, it's like, "Yeah, your, your, your career really makes me hard." You'd just be like, "Excuse me?"

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  Okay, now I, now I wanna see you two do it.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I'm scared. Okay. Am I the scary guy?

• 1:09:40Speaker 03

  Okay, who do you want to be the alpha? Do you want to?

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  Actually, can I be?

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  You want to exercise?

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  You should be scary guy.

• 1:09:46Speaker 03

  I should be scary guy.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Here we go.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, hi.

• 1:09:58Speaker 03

  Hey.

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  I like those patches on your knee that go up to your crotch.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  They're super fucking hot.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  What? It's crazy that you just say that to me.

• 1:10:09Speaker 03

  Oh, is it?

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  I'm Matt, by the way.

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  Oh, hey, I'm, I'm Gol- Gerardo.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Gerardo? I know, that's not right.

• 1:10:18Speaker 03

  Well, maybe if you're lucky, I'll give you my real name later.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  Yeah? You have a fake name? That's weird. Why are you out here in these streets lying?

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  Why do you ask me so many fucking questions?

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  I don't know. Quite frankly, I don't know.

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really don't know.

• 1:10:34Speaker 03

  Do you usually get this defensive around people? You're too cute to be so defensive.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  At all. I think I'm having fun with you.

• 1:10:39Speaker 03

  Oh, are you? You are. That's good.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  At least I'm having fun.

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  Are you?

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, are you?

• 1:10:45Speaker 03

  Are you a psycho?

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  Am I a psycho?

• 1:10:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  You, sir, came over to me and talked about how my pants-

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  Because you were giving me this come hither look.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  Was I really?

• 1:10:57Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  Oh, maybe that's just the way I look.

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  I saw you touching yourself and you kind of wooed me over.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  You did never, you did not see me touch myself.

• 1:11:05Speaker 03

  You're a little tease is what you are.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  Gerardo! I was turned on. Gerardo! Oh my god.

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  This didn't really feel like an alpha pussy moment, but it felt really fun.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 03

  I was kind of a dick, right?

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  You were great in that scene.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  You were, you disarmed completely. It is, I don't think anyone can, clearly not everyone can do alpha pussy. You know what I mean?

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  No, you can.

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  Listen, being alpha pussy is not just about, it's about, it's like if someone comes, you say, hey, you know what? Your career's all wrong. You know what you should be doing? Um, you should be doing blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're just like, thinking, like, you know?

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  Do you work in the industry? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would, I, I, I know how to stand.

• 1:11:51Speaker 03

  Or let's say I'm your agent.

• 1:11:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  Saying, you know, and all this, what, what are you doing this thing for? This is bullshit. Like honestly, we need to put you in bigger movies. We need to make some more money with you. This is not gonna, so.

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  You helped me with all my big projects, right?

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  I just think you're going about this, I think you're wasting your time doing this, this project. I think you should probably not do it anymore.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  I have, I have retorts for my actual agent where I'm like, oh, I got wicked for myself.

• 1:12:17Speaker 03

  Right there, when I'm saying this, it's your, you're like, it's like, don't fucking tell me what to do.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  Oh, no, in that situation, I'm totally like, oh, you have no leg to stand on.

• 1:12:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:12:26Speaker 02

  Like I.

• 1:12:26Speaker 03

  That's being alpha pussy, just standing up for your own, like, don't let someone tell you what you should be doing.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  Of course, I think, I guess you just have to be like preemptively sure of your, your own convictions. And that is probably the thing that people have to like arrive at themselves. You can't teach them that. Alpha pussy is a beautiful modular thing. But they have to start out knowing that they are.

• 1:12:48Speaker 03

  Or, or you have to know what doesn't feel right. Like you don't have to know everything, but if someone's saying something or saying, hey, let's go here, let's go to that club there. And if in your body, you're like, and you're like, no, thanks, I'm, I'm good.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  You get a lot better at listening to that voice, though, as you get older, I have found. Like, because when you don't know, you just don't know. And scary thing about youth is you, A, don't think anything bad is gonna happen to you because not, nothing has. And B, you trust people.

• 1:13:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  I remember when I first came to New York. And also Hollywood tells you stories and they, you, you're allowed to believe them when you're a kid, such as, you, you might just get discovered on the street. You know what I mean? I'm, I remember when I was walking in front of our dorm in NYU.

• 1:13:33Speaker 03

  Did someone tell you that?

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Well, that's what they tell us when we're young. Jennifer Lawrence was discovered in an Abercrombie and Fitch.

• 1:13:39Speaker 03

  At the swash, swash.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, like Cameron Diaz, you know, you know, Brad Pitt drove to Hollywood for 43 bucks. And then he booked Elman and Louise not long after. But I was walking on the street our freshman year. On 14th Street, in front of a dorm that I was at, a guy, handsome guy, in his 40s, comes up, "You should really model. Have you ever thought of modeling?" And I'm like 18, like, very, very thin, I ran track, and I looked young. And I was just like, "No, but I guess it's happening. I'm being discovered on the street."

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  They sent me to a rooftop where a guy had me take off my shirt after about three pictures of me with clothes on.

• 1:14:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Took pictures of me for almost an hour, and then he said, "Great, um, we're gonna really try to expose you." And I went home and I was like, "Cool." And the last thing I asked was, "Is there gonna be like a website where these photos are on?" He gave me the website. I remember I looked later. It was all just shirtless boys my age and no names.

• 1:14:38Speaker 03

  Oh, god.

• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  And that's when I realized, only a few years ago, that what that probably was, was sex trafficking.

• 1:14:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  And the only thing I thought at the time as an 18-year-old, even for someone that had proximity to New York and wasn't a full idiot, just was young, was that that kind of thing can happen.

• 1:14:57Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  Positive, laudatory. You know what I mean? Not the story, which, thank god, we're hearing now, about the many ways in which you can get snatched up like that.

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. For sure.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  That's so scary. Because you just don't know.

• 1:15:12Speaker 03

  That's, and you're young and you want, you want to work. I do have that story, the one of our cheerleaders is missing story. When I remember being so, like, I didn't have an agent, and I was like, "Oh, my god." Like, I just, I'd, you know, have my head shot, and I'd read in the backstage, like, you know, "Looking for an athletic girl, 18, who could be, you know, scared and, you know, and happy and cute, nice figure." Um, you know, blah, blah, all these things. I'm like, "I could do all of that." You know, like, 16 or 15. I'm like, "I could do that." I didn't really think about the 18 part. And then you send in your picture. They're like, "Thank you for responding to know what is now called 'One of our Cheerleaders is Missing.'"

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:53Speaker 03

  So, this is a, this is a tour de force part where, you know, the girl...

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  It's a tour de force part.

• 1:15:58Speaker 03

  A tour de force part where, where the... Where the girl has to be chained to a brick wall after she's been kidnapped and she has to her and her deranged kidnapper, who is played by me, the writer, director,

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:16:11Speaker 03

  Editor, producer, it's been a tour. I'm like, what's our tour mean?

• 1:16:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't know.

• 1:16:17Speaker 03

  And, and it just sounded pretty bad. It's like, come to this place on Ventura Boulevard. There's a little part, it was like, it's a lead in a movie. It sounds like a good part. It's like, it sounds kind of dodgy, you know? And I remember, luckily, I had the thinking, God, this is weird. And I told my cousin, you know, who was in the business at the time, he was really a singer, but I think he wanted to be a manager. His name was Benny Medina. And I remember him telling, and he's like, what? He's like, I'm, you're not going there alone. I'm gonna go there with you. And, you know, I think he was like, I'm gonna kick this guy's ass. He was very protective. And, and I remember thinking, yeah, this sounds kind of dumb. Let's just not do it.

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:17:00Speaker 03

  And I didn't go. But I never would have gone by myself because it felt, but how do you know? And also, I think if you're a guy, I've talked, it's different because you think I'm a guy. This isn't gonna happen to me.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  There's no narrative about, especially when we were that age, there was no narrative about like, what men in Hollywood were doing and continue to do, sorry, to young gay men.

• 1:17:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  And there is.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  Don't be sorry about saying that.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  No, I mean, the thing is, like, I know it's not a happy topic, but it still happens. And it happens with people who are still powerful.

• 1:17:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. Women to men. I have like, friends of mine who are like, very successful now. When I started talking about all this stuff, he was just like, that happened to me too. You know, as a young, like, actor from women and from men.

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:44Speaker 03

  And it's just, it's, you know, it's kind of gross when you're young and people, that's when it's the most important. And that's when I just think, I was really lucky. Like, I sometimes think, God, my brother was kind of insane, you know, because he'd tie me up and hang me up on the, you know, chin up bar if I didn't get out of our Houdini game and just like, leave me there. And so, I kind of like, had got an instinct of like, oh, oh, like, let's steer away from that right now and this. So, I, I was always a little bit on my toes.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:14Speaker 03

  Right? And as a young person, if you didn't have to be, then you're gonna learn the hard way.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  And that's, that's, every, every.

• 1:18:25Speaker 03

  Every experience like trains you for the next, hopefully. And hopefully, you know, but sadly, sometimes those experiences are really fucking bad. And people aren't lucky. I was lucky that nothing really bad happened to me. Lucky.

• 1:18:38Speaker 02

  So that then, when you get into a situation, and I, we, we just, I just wanted to like, mention this. And we don't have to get too in-depth, but it's like, I connect that to you doing Showgirls and Paul demanding things that were probably very strenuous and difficult for you. When you just wanted to do a good job and like, make this role like Margot Channing. Make Crystal Connors the new Margot Channing. And, and meanwhile, he just kind of like gave, like pushed you to a limit where you finally pushed back. And we're like, I am someone with, you can't put me through this indignity, right? Like, there's a moment in the book where I'm like, oh my God, this is so powerful.

• 1:19:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, I, I think the biggest mistake, or not mistake, the biggest, like, I went into that movie thinking it's one thing. And I was like, woo, this is gonna be amazing. It's gonna be dark and it's gonna be this. And I walked on it set, I'm like, holy shit. Oh my God. There was like, it was a totally different ballgame.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  And you know, as an actor, it was a good lesson thinking, well, I can't do what I was gonna do. Else I'm gonna look like an asshole and it's just not gonna work. And then I'm acting with someone who's in a totally different sort of movie than was in my head. And also what he was directing was so bright and colorful and like, whoop, whoop, whoop. And I thought it was gonna be like, you know, so, uh, right away, but I was in it and I wasn't gonna give up the part, but right away, I started lying about a lot of things. Just because when it was, you know, I thought I had my first really good idea. And I'm like, oh my God, I got a great idea, you know, because I really wanted, I, I saw the potential.

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:20:19Speaker 03

  And I'm like, this is a big break for me and it's also a great part. There's a lot you could play with in it. And I remember saying, you know, like, oh, it's so cool. Like when we first see her in her dressing room, everything should be fake, you know, like she takes out her fake boobs and I rub off my fake nose and take off my fake eyelashes. I take off some fake hair. I pull off my nails and then I go, hey, can you bring this thing in? I said, I said, even my voice is fake. She's not like, oh, the, the Southern belle, you know, the Texas Golden, whatever she was. I said, and then she's like some from Brooklyn or something. I said, that's so great. Everything is fake. And he was just like, what are you talking about? He's like, no, no, no accents. I said, what do you mean? No, no, no accents. I don't want

• 1:21:04Speaker 03

  any accents in this whole entire movie. I'm like, she's, she's the yellow rose from Texas. You know, like I say, darling, like every other word, like I have to have, you know, I have, I have to have an accent. Like this part doesn't work without an accent. And he said, no, then I just started talking. I said, well, I'm just going to use my accent. You know, because I'm, I was born, raised in Tennessee. My, my sister lived in Nashville. It's not exactly Texas, but I think it's, and I just started talking like that. And then I just had to start lying about everything just to protect the integrity of the part, which I, I already knew what I wanted to do and how to play it. I saw it so clearly. And, um, but at the end of the day, you know,

• 1:21:42Speaker 02

  You can navigate that situation after understanding, like the things, the parameters that are put on like an actor, an actress in a movie, very male gazy, very like,

• 1:21:55Speaker 03

  Well, that moment hit. I, I, that real, that moment really became apparent in a rehearsal when we were doing the, the S and M number, you know, I just know that there was, I was like in some S and M outfit and all these dancers were kind of naked below me and I'm hanging on a rope really high up of the ground. And it just like this weird soliloquy. I was just like, oh my God, I studied the classics.

• 1:22:23Speaker 03

  I wanted to play Chekhov. I was gonna play Medea. I was gonna do Masha. It's like, how the fuck did we get here? And it became really crystal clear at that moment. It's like, we need to be really fucking good in this movie, else our career is over before it began. And so up there and then all of a sudden, you know, I was like, it was this weird moment up there. You know, in the musical, that would be like the big like song of discovery of, how did we get here?

• 1:22:51Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:22:51Speaker 03

  Ding ding ding, you know?

• 1:22:53Speaker 02

  And then you really internalize that moment, I feel, because then right after that you do Bound, and that is like, that is just something that is so, still so fucking great and important. And not that the other work isn't, but I'm like,

• 1:23:06Speaker 03

  No, it was an important, well, that was, that was a real kind of alpha pussy thing too, because right after, Showgirls, I had these agents, oh, we're gonna make you into a big star. We're gonna get this. I said, I need a movie right now, like really like right now before this thing is out. I was like, you just don't get what's gonna happen. This isn't gonna be what you think it's gonna be. Because, and I was panicking and um, they were sending me weird things and I saw, I read Bound and I remember going like, first of all, A, this is kind of genius, like, and B, like, I want to do this. Like, I really want to play this. It's totally the opposite of that. And they're like, we can't let you play this part. It's a lesbian. Like, you just played a lesbian. I'm like, okay, first of all, Chris is not a lesbian. She's bi or whatever. Um, I said, secondly, so who gives a fuck?

• 1:23:51Speaker 03

  I said, this is more about, you know, I went through my whole thing. They said, you know, new directors. And I met them. I'm like, let me just tell you something. These directors are motherfuckers. They're really good. And then it just kept going on. They said, we can't let you do this movie else uh, you know, you'll ruin your career. We can't represent you. I said, really? And so I left. I left my agents.

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  Incredible. I love that.

• 1:24:16Speaker 03

  Which I really was so. Like, wait, why can't you, why is this gonna ruin my career? And at the time, you know, you weren't allowed to play a lesbian. They'll be typecast. You know, I didn't even look at it that way.

• 1:24:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:24:28Speaker 03

  Which was weird because you could have gay men on the screen. Gay women was seem be more taboo.

• 1:24:34Speaker 02

  It was more etched in your filmography or something, or I don't know.

• 1:24:39Speaker 03

  I don't know. There'd been a couple of-

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Too powerful, I think. I think the men making decisions, whether it's subconscious or not at the time, there's something about like, women in love, you don't need any men. So, so that threatens their ego, I think.

• 1:24:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It's like, Bound is-

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  Two female protagonists and they weren't like fucking each other either for the male gaze. They were making love, they were strong in it. They were doing it because they wanted to do it. And I think the men were like, I think, I think, you know, anyway, the decision making men, and at that time, were probably not seeing the value in that.

• 1:25:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:25:16Speaker 01

  Because it didn't involve them.

• 1:25:18Speaker 03

  Right. Well, it's also interesting you should say that because I remember when we got to the, the love scene, which was supposed to be a love scene between the two of them. And it was all done in one take. I mean, it was really, it was like the four of us having sex. Cause it was like, move your foot, one wall comes up, one wall goes down. I mean, they're genius filmmakers. And Bill Pope, who was so incredible doing the cinematography, it was all very choreographed. And so we, we had to get it in one take. And so we would watch it after each take. And there was one that Jen and I did. And it was so beautiful. You didn't see, by the way, you didn't see any boob, you didn't see any, you didn't see any female part of a body. But our looks towards each other was so intense. We were so locked in-

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:02Speaker 03

  That it was, you could feel it.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  It felt more explicit, even though it wasn't.

• 1:26:08Speaker 03

  It was a love scene. You see them falling in love. And it was so intense that all of us were like, holy shit, that's the one. I mean, we're all like, that's the one. When the board or the, you know, the ratings, people are like, no, you can't use that one. You can use this one instead, which by the way, you saw a little bit of boob. You saw a little bit of this and it was a fucking scene. The love scene.

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:26:33Speaker 03

  They wouldn't let us do it. It was like, wow.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  So they gave you an NC seventeen on the one that was more lovemaking.

• 1:26:40Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  But the one where women were fucking, you guys got the R even though there was nudity.

• 1:26:44Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  See?

• 1:26:46Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  That's, that's so interesting to me.

• 1:26:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  Is, is the lovemaking scene, is that cut anywhere? I like, I like that take.

• 1:26:54Speaker 01

  Does that exist in, in a, in a cut?

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  Do you know, uh, I, I'm sure it's somewhere. I mean, I wonder if they did the director's cut. I'm gonna see them. There's a bound thirty year anniversary that I'm gonna see Jennifer and Joey. I think on the seventh, like in two days or whenever in a couple of days from now, whatever day this is. Um, and one of the directors is gonna be there. I think I'll ask her.

• 1:27:16Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:27:17Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, because it was really, we were all like, that's it. And but we were, it's not in the final cut.

• 1:27:23Speaker 02

  Oh, but it's Criterion, so.

• 1:27:25Speaker 03

  I don't think, I don't think they changed.

• 1:27:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:27:28Speaker 03

  That. I don't think they added anything. I think we had comments and stuff.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:27:31Speaker 03

  I don't know. I have to ask, but I don't think so.

• 1:27:33Speaker 01

  So fascinating that like, that, that there's that hurdle to clear, which is then the ratings board. And they get to actually make like a creative decision like that in a way.

• 1:27:44Speaker 03

  Look at, same thing happened. Look at Showgirls, the same thing. In a way, it was like, I mean, that was NC seventeen, which I do think it was its downfall.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:52Speaker 03

  And it's like, cut out five seconds of whatever-ness and make it an R. And it's like, oh, because there was too many tits? Like, it's like in America, especially at that time, maybe still now, like, you know, if you show too much nudity in the female body and like, oh, too much, too much. But if you like, cut off a tit, oh, yeah, that's okay. We can make that an R.

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:28:12Speaker 03

  Violence, that's cool.

• 1:28:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:28:14Speaker 01

  Oh, violence is always like, I can't believe some of the things that I saw, like in PG thirteen movies. And, and what's not allowed in that, maybe.

• 1:28:24Speaker 03

  It's totally different. I mean, look what's going on tape on TV now.

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:28:28Speaker 03

  I mean, it's just, I mean, all across the board. It's like soft core.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:28:33Speaker 03

  Right?

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• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  Wait, I could do I Don't Think Honey on this.

• 1:32:54Speaker 02

  I think this is I Don't Think So Honey.

• 1:32:55Speaker 01

  So this is our, I know, I, we could talk to you forever.

• 1:32:58Speaker 03

  I know, this is so fun.

• 1:33:00Speaker 01

  I know, we love having you. You've done it all, but.

• 1:33:03Speaker 03

  Well, come on. I could be your go-to if like, someone can't even showing up, that motherfucker.

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  With Lost Culture, Bowen and Gina, that's what they're all gonna be saying after this. I'll sit in the corner and be like, Robin.

• 1:33:14Speaker 02

  We should do check-ins, like Robin, no, I'm Robin. We should do check-ins where we do alpha pussy, like progress checks.

• 1:33:20Speaker 01

  Oh, alpha pussy progress check.

• 1:33:22Speaker 03

  I really, I didn't understand it until today.

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  We didn't understand that.

• 1:33:29Speaker 02

  That's for your research.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  You're not alpha.

• 1:33:31Speaker 03

  Well, it's also very sweet, and I think it's something in your DNA, right? You have a cultural thing of being very nice, I think. And you have something in your... You're Canadian.

• 1:33:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:41Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:33:42Speaker 03

  There you go. I mean, that's a... It's a built-in niceness.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  Sure. And you know, I'm from the streets.

• 1:33:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I thought. Where are you from?

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  Long Island.

• 1:33:53Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:33:53Speaker 01

  We have a big personalities and attitudes.

• 1:33:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:56Speaker 01

  But yeah, I get what you mean.

• 1:33:57Speaker 03

  But it's really hard when you're... It's like, you know, the same was when you're raised to always be nice to people. Like, it's the... And kind and not contradict people. Like, that's like a built-in thing.

• 1:34:09Speaker 01

  You know how I describe why I communicate the way I communicate? Because the way I learned, my mom was a hairdresser in Long Island. So I listen to women talk to each other, and this is the... This is the way I learned how to communicate. My mom would finish the haircut, and then her client, which is a Long Island woman, would go to tip her. And if she was a good client or a friend of my mother's, my mother would go, "Stop it. You're ridiculous. Get out of here. No, I'm not taking that." "Trina, let me... Come on. No, this is ridiculous. You do such an amazing job. Why can't I tip you? Get out of my house. I swear to God. I don't want to see you again. I love you so much. Goodbye."

• 1:34:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:46Speaker 01

  That's why...

• 1:34:48Speaker 02

  A tip over a tip.

• 1:34:48Speaker 01

  That's... Because it's... A, it's 100 words for every one word it could be.

• 1:34:52Speaker 03

  I'm gonna smash your face in if you don't get out of here right now.

• 1:34:54Speaker 01

  I'm gonna kick your ass and your husband's ass.

• 1:34:56Speaker 03

  Like, get out.

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that's why I think, like, that downloaded to me.

• 1:35:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:02Speaker 01

  It's a thing that where you never have enough to say.

• 1:35:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  But it's also a defense mechanism.

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  And a way of communicating.

• 1:35:09Speaker 03

  It's so interesting. I mean, the way you grow up and people grow up, you know, you see... I mean, I remember, like, I was the youngest, and I couldn't get a word in edgewise. So I was always like, you know, the person talking really fast, because like, no one would let me speak ever.

• 1:35:22Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:35:22Speaker 03

  And I couldn't even put sentences together, because I was like...

• 1:35:28Speaker 01

  By the time you processed what you wanted to say, it was done.

• 1:35:31Speaker 03

  It's like, you know what I mean? It's like you think... Then I remember doing my first, like, roundtable, like, press tour, and they were like, you know, this is really... Everyone asked you questions. They're all gonna...

• 1:35:42Speaker 01

  You're excited.

• 1:35:43Speaker 03

  And I would... They'd ask me a question, and I'd start talking fast. I realize... No one's interrupting me.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:48Speaker 03

  Like, this isn't, they actually wanna hear what? I loved it. It was like therapy. I'm like, I could slow down and actually start talking. And I literally kept waiting for someone to tell me to shut up. I'm like, this is amazing. Like, I know it went on and on. I'm like, no, you don't understand. Like, I've been waiting for this my whole life.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:06Speaker 03

  Just to like,

• 1:36:07Speaker 01

  To let it out.

• 1:36:08Speaker 03

  Actually say something and not have to rush because, you know, I wasn't allowed to talk.

• 1:36:12Speaker 02

  Well, you're right at home on a podcast. But now we are gonna rush you to talk.

• 1:36:15Speaker 03

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 1:36:15Speaker 01

  But it's good. There's a lot of space in there to get what you wanna say. It's a minute-long segment. This is I Don't Think So Honey.

• 1:36:22Speaker 03

  Wait, can I look at my little note for a second?

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  You of course can.

• 1:36:24Speaker 02

  We're gonna go first.

• 1:36:25Speaker 01

  Bowen and I are gonna go first.

• 1:36:25Speaker 03

  You're gonna go first. Oh, good.

• 1:36:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:36:27Speaker 02

  And you can prepare. You can load her up.

• 1:36:28Speaker 01

  And mine is, uh, related to ratings and all that. Um, so, I'm ready to go.

• 1:36:34Speaker 02

  This is not Roger's I Don't Think So, and his time starts now.

• 1:36:36Speaker 01

  I Don't Think So Honey, you're gonna give a movie or a TV series a rating? I wanna see who was on the board that decided that.

• 1:36:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  I want transparency in the motion picture arts and sciences. Whoever does the ratings, I believe it's them. I wanna see, show us the board. Show us the jury that watched this film, that watched Bound, and said, mm, I want the one where women are fucking. I bet you're a bunch of nasty guys who, if I looked you right in your eyes and said, why you like that, you little freak? You would look right away.

• 1:37:05Speaker 03

  Ah!

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  And you better believe you would crumble in the face of me, Gina, and even Bowen Yang. By the time we're done with him, we're gonna get him making eye contact all the do-da-day, just like I am right now. And I'm looking you in the eyes, you at home who are rating our films and keeping us out of the cinemas. You will not win. Because by the time I'm done with you, I will make sure I know all of your names and I'll have your addresses. And I will have you know that Bound in my...

• 1:37:37Speaker 01

  Opinion should be PG 13. Get to the cinemas, re-release the Criterion film, Bound, and I want to see Bound 2.

• 1:37:44Speaker 02

  And that's one minute.

• 1:37:48Speaker 01

  109 I went over, but I had a lot to say.

• 1:37:50Speaker 03

  I always wanted to do one of those documentaries on the board. Like, and they're probably like old, kinda like,

• 1:37:56Speaker 01

  There was one called, "This Film Is Not Yet Rated," I believe. That was, that was on, I think Netflix. Does anyone know about this? It was called "This Film Is Not Yet Rated," it's about the rating process, and specifically about how it killed a lot of, um,

• 1:38:09Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  Movies that were artistically pushing things forward, queer films, you know, films with diverse casts, because they're not speaking that language, or whatever it is that's happening on screen, so it must be scary and bad to them.

• 1:38:23Speaker 03

  Well, guess what we have coming towards us now, that Hollywood's being bought up. That, that'll be interesting.

• 1:38:29Speaker 02

  It's like a new Hays Code situation, but like,

• 1:38:31Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 1:38:32Speaker 02

  Fucking, I'm thinking about, remember The Hills Have Eyes? I think we talked about this before, like, The Hills Have Eyes remake, where like, a woman gets fully sexually assaulted.

• 1:38:40Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:38:41Speaker 01

  Yep, by a mutant, and you, they don't cut away.

• 1:38:43Speaker 02

  They don't cut away, and it gets, I mean, I'm sure it's an R, but it's like, that, but you're gonna like, give Showgirls an NC 17?

• 1:38:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:51Speaker 02

  Like, that is fucking-

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  It was a brutal scene of sexual assault that was in a horror film, and it was, it was literally like, trauma porn.

• 1:38:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:00Speaker 03

  It was trauma porn. That, I was traumatized by that, for sure.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  No, it's horrifying. It's, it's scarring. It's, it genuinely makes me, like, interested slash super concerned about what we downloaded as kids, watching the crazy amount of violence, and specifically sexual violence. And then to put a label on something that would suggest you should fear something like lesbian lovemaking is- Obviously.

• 1:39:27Speaker 03

  It will, I think you're right. I think it was too threatening.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like definitely at the time.

• 1:39:33Speaker 03

  And why do you think they're putting all these, you know, kiboshing so many things and it's gonna keep happening more and more? It's just all these like old white dudes like, you know, this is the way. Why? It's like, just let people do whatever the fuck they want. Are you that insecure? You have to control everyone? Oh, I guess so.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  I mean, even to those people, I would say you'll be happier to have yourself, even if you feel like all stodgy and like concerned, conservative in the moment, like let yourself, you'll be happier. Just drop your shoulders, babe. Like, stop being this way.

• 1:40:01Speaker 03

  They're too scared because they are that.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:40:03Speaker 03

  It's like, you know, the ones who are like, oh, homosexuality is like queen, like,

• 1:40:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, girl.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  Let your freak on. Like, really?

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  Girl.

• 1:40:11Speaker 03

  Girl.

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Girl.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  MPAA. Girl.

• 1:40:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  Okay, so Bowen, are you ready to absolutely shred?

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  I'm ready to shred.

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:40:19Speaker 01

  Here is Bowen Yang. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.

• 1:40:22Speaker 02

  I don't think so, honey. Look, I am a boob gay. I love the things. This is one woman with boobs who is doing a little too much and too little at the same time. Lauren Sanchez. Stop wearing the same fucking dress and the same fucking silhouette every time you step in front of a camera. Mix it the fuck up, for god's sake, you boring motherfucker. I can't believe you're misusing your boobs, which I don't care how you got them. You have to use them for good.

• 1:40:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  But it's impossible for you to do any of that with anything that you have access to, because it will never be benevolent. You have been corrupted by the thing that has just made everything fallow in this business. We are feeling it now. I have in front of me someone who has only used her boobs for good. And I don't mean to keep talking about them and I'm, I feel like I'm constantly apologizing to you, which is not an alpha pussy, about how much I artfully appreciate your breasts.

• 1:41:27Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 1:41:27Speaker 02

  And I will only ever make them feel beautifully appreciated, even though you've lived a whole life where people have devalued them and made you feel cheap.

• 1:41:35Speaker 01

  And that is one minute and 14 seconds. Well spent.

• 1:41:39Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:41:40Speaker 03

  Well done. I totally agree with that.

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  I, because as soon as you started demonstrating like the covering, I felt guilty. I was like, oh, I hope I've never made Gina feel this way.

• 1:41:49Speaker 03

  You've never made me feel like way once. You're so nice. And even in your head, you're like saying, oh, no, I'm sorry. Like, don't do that.

• 1:41:56Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:41:57Speaker 03

  You're too nice. And you're too, you're so sweet.

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  But you, you have such beautiful breasts.

• 1:42:03Speaker 03

  I know. Thank you.

• 1:42:05Speaker 03

  I love my boy. I love them. I do. It's like, I really, but you know, when you're growing up and you're not used to them, you're just like, what are, people really change their, their opinion towards you, which is so interesting, you know, because they just were thrust upon me, you know what I mean? And then I, it's a, well, this is a whole other thing. When you see all these people now, like getting these big boobs, right? And like making boobs and I like, okay.

• 1:42:30Speaker 02

  It's a choice for them.

• 1:42:31Speaker 03

  When I was younger, I was like, oh my God, I wanted to be twiggy. I wanted to be flat. And like, I just wanted to be like, and to actually want that. It's such a different mindset.

• 1:42:40Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:42:41Speaker 03

  You know, did you see all the stuff that went on from last night with the Met Gala, the people projecting like the workers onto the building?

• 1:42:48Speaker 02

  And the bottles and all this stuff.

• 1:42:50Speaker 03

  It was kind of incredible.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  No, absolutely. I mean, I think that the reaction that everyone is having is really important.

• 1:42:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  And I really feel like I've never seen so, it was kind of fascinating on social media too, as it was all coming in, because it was relentlessly coming in as content the way it every, does every year.

• 1:43:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  But every comment was just this, you know, rage and it's, you see it right there.

• 1:43:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  And I think we need to learn from it for, for the future.

• 1:43:20Speaker 02

  It's correct.

• 1:43:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  To, you know.

• 1:43:23Speaker 03

  Listen, I didn't feel, sometimes, you know, you think, oh, I wasn't invited this year to the Met, well, whatever. Last night, I could have cared less.

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:29Speaker 03

  In fact, I kind of love the people who didn't go.

• 1:43:31Speaker 02

  Thank God I have back pain.

• 1:43:33Speaker 03

  Huh?

• 1:43:33Speaker 02

  Thank God I have back pain.

• 1:43:34Speaker 03

  Would you have gone?

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  Were you invited?

• 1:43:35Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 1:43:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  But no, I'm saying like.

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  It was your back saying, bitch, you ain't going no matter what.

• 1:43:42Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:43:43Speaker 03

  Don't even think about it.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Also, it's like at a certain point, it's like, you know, there, there's, there's the ways in which you have to play ball in industry. And then there's just choices you can make. And as long as you can live with the choices that you're making and you can justify it, then that's fine. But people are also entitled to their response and their critique.

• 1:44:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:44:01Speaker 01

  And their, you know, platform as well.

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:44:06Speaker 02

  Hundo P. Okay.

• 1:44:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  Speaking of platforms.

• 1:44:09Speaker 03

  Okay, I'm just gonna wing this cuz I don't know what else to do.

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  You are a natural orator. I'm so excited for this. This is Gina.

• 1:44:17Speaker 03

  I don't know how original this is, but it's like what came up.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  It doesn't have to be.

• 1:44:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:44:22Speaker 02

  Oh, trust us.

• 1:44:22Speaker 03

  But I really feel strongly about it.

• 1:44:24Speaker 02

  That's all that matters.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:44:25Speaker 02

  This is Gina Gershon, I Don't Think So Honey, and her time starts now.

• 1:44:28Speaker 03

  I don't think so, honey. Waymo, are you fucking kidding me?

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  Get them off the streets.

• 1:44:33Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, so far, they've killed cats, they've killed dogs, they don't stop for them, they even hit a kid cuz they keep going near

• 1:44:39Speaker 02

  Fuck!

• 1:44:40Speaker 03

  school buses and they don't stop.

• 1:44:42Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 1:44:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, they've hit kids. Now, the thing that's happening is like they're snatching luggage. Guy gets off at the airport, closes the door and the car. Waymo drives away

• 1:44:53Speaker 02

  My worst nightmare.

• 1:44:53Speaker 03

  with all this luggage, like, "I don't think so, honey, are you fucking kidding me?"

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  Later.

• 1:44:58Speaker 03

  And not only that, it's like people are like, oh, when they're talking, oh, well, you know, I like Waymo because, you know, I don't have to like, listen to anyone, or I could hear my own music. You know what? Tell someone, you're a big girl.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:09Speaker 03

  Just say, "Hey, can we have silence?" Or put on your fucking iPods and listen to your own music. And they're like, "Well, then I don't get a stinky person." You know what?

• 1:45:16Speaker 02

  15 seconds.

• 1:45:16Speaker 03

  Like, you might get a, one of some motherfucking stinky person came into the car before you.

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:21Speaker 03

  And then it smells, like, does Waymo have a smellometer or something? Like, that doesn't exist.

• 1:45:26Speaker 02

  Not yet.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Five seconds.

• 1:45:27Speaker 03

  And then they're like, "Oh, I don't know how to drive." It's like, you know what? Coming from the valley, it's like, it was a badge of honor. It was, it was a rites of passage. Learn how to fucking drive. It was independent, it was freedom. And if you can't drive and you're drunk, that's why they have Ubers, or that's why you have sober friends.

• 1:45:42Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:45:42Speaker 03

  Fuck you, Waymo.

• 1:45:43Speaker 02

  And then, that's one minute.

• 1:45:45Speaker 03

  Oh, wait, and I didn't even say the best part. Can I just go on?

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, go, go, go.

• 1:45:48Speaker 03

  And I'll tell you something else. It all starts like this, but in my head, all I keep hearing is like, "The Waymo murders." Because it's always a good idea until some motherfucker's like, "You know what? I'm gonna fuck with the, the system." And then next thing you know, the doors are locked, you are taken to some isolated place, and never seen from again.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  It's a good idea for a murder.

• 1:46:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a great idea for, it's a good idea until it is not.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, Waymo's a great idea. Sounds like a great idea for me, a serial killer, to get a Away with my grand plans.

• 1:46:17Speaker 03

  I mean, the only thing, I mean, you look at those Waymos, I just saw them in LA. It's like, you think like, the Teletubby families are gonna come bouncing out of them.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  It's surreal, and it's warped, and it's also an eyesore. It is ugly, as if LA needed to look uglier.

• 1:46:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, no.

• 1:46:31Speaker 01

  Now you have these crazy looking machines on the road, and almost killed our friend Jared.

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  Did it?

• 1:46:36Speaker 01

  Yes. Poor Jared, who should live more than anyone I know.

• 1:46:41Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:46:41Speaker 03

  What happened with the Waymo?

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  Basically, it was going to make a left turn at an intersection, and it stopped in the middle of the intersection, and the lights went different, and everyone that was waiting for him at the gay bar, one of, something else that's going extinct. They were standing around waiting, and they were looking out at Jared in the intersection, and they were saying, "Girl, we thought that it was trying..."

• 1:47:05Speaker 02

  To kill you. And, any old person at Waymo HQ customer service can buzz in and say, "Please put on your seatbelt, sure." But I'm saying, there is something fucked about the surveillance of that, where you're being watched when you are in them.

• 1:47:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's something super creepy about the whole thing. I'm against it, honey, I don't think so.

• 1:47:25Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  And free Jared.

• 1:47:27Speaker 02

  Free Jared.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  He's still in that intersection right now.

• 1:47:29Speaker 02

  Jared, we want you to live.

• 1:47:30Speaker 01

  We want you to live, Jared. You're nominated for best gay guy somewhere in between this year.

• 1:47:35Speaker 03

  Free Jared.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Free Jared. Our friend Jared won at our awards, he won best gay guy normal last year, and so now, as a result of winning best gay guy normal, he gets nominated for best gay guy somewhere in between, because he's not best gay guy famous.

• 1:47:49Speaker 02

  Three different tiers.

• 1:47:50Speaker 03

  Wait, what, you say normal, like, not a famous person?

• 1:47:53Speaker 01

  Like a nurse, or like, you know.

• 1:47:55Speaker 02

  A teacher.

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  A teacher.

• 1:47:56Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:47:57Speaker 02

  Gay people can be anything.

• 1:47:58Speaker 01

  Someone you see on the street.

• 1:47:59Speaker 03

  I know, I just didn't know what you meant by normal.

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  Normal, meaning?

• 1:48:02Speaker 03

  Like?

• 1:48:03Speaker 02

  Meaning not famous, because famous are abnormal.

• 1:48:05Speaker 03

  Because famous people are so normal.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:09Speaker 01

  This has been so fun.

• 1:48:11Speaker 03

  This is so fun. I want to just keep talking on and on and on.

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  The good news is the podcast may end.

• 1:48:17Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:48:18Speaker 01

  This threesome goes on forever.

• 1:48:20Speaker 02

  I want to go to Vegas with you.

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, Vegas is my whole fucking thing.

• 1:48:24Speaker 03

  Oh, no, no, Vegas.

• 1:48:25Speaker 02

  Vegas rocks.

• 1:48:26Speaker 03

  I haven't been there in so long. Have you been to the Sphere yet?

• 1:48:28Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:48:29Speaker 01

  I'm dying to go. I just want to wait for the right thing.

• 1:48:31Speaker 03

  What about Wizard of Oz?

• 1:48:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I want to go last time.

• 1:48:36Speaker 03

  Isn't Celine?

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:48:38Speaker 01

  She's doing Paris.

• 1:48:41Speaker 03

  Paris.

• 1:48:41Speaker 02

  Not, not the Paris.

• 1:48:42Speaker 03

  Wait a second. Wait a second. I listened to the Brandy one.

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:48:47Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. I meant, I was gonna text her before. It was so great.

• 1:48:50Speaker 02

  She was amazing.

• 1:48:51Speaker 03

  And when you guys were talking about that, I'm like, I'm going. I'm going to Paris with you guys.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Watch when it's just like us and all the last 150 guests we've had on the podcast. Because it's gonna be a topic every time. And who doesn't want to go see Celine? Like, let's go. Let's really go.

• 1:49:05Speaker 03

  We can go to Vegas. Can I just tell you, can I give you guys a compliment? I mean, and I hope you take this as a compliment. But you know how sometimes, like, you have in the podcast or the thing is like, oh, and if you want it, you know, you know, advertisement free, you have to buy into the, you're never gonna have that. Your ads are so incredible. It makes me want to get hemorrhoids, how good you are.

• 1:49:27Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. You can have some preparation aids just laying around.

• 1:49:30Speaker 03

  The way your legs, like, be nice to your butt. Like, yeah, I want to be nice to my butt.

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  You should.

• 1:49:35Speaker 03

  Like, is it burning? Oh, yeah.

• 1:49:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:37Speaker 03

  You make it sound sexy. You're too good at those things.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  Thank you. I mean.

• 1:49:41Speaker 03

  All of them.

• 1:49:42Speaker 02

  We're good shows. We're good shows.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  A thing I would definitely give it to you guys. You could sell, you could sell the shit out of anything. No pun intended.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  There you go. Gina G, we love you so much, my good friend, our good friend.

• 1:49:56Speaker 01

  And she's gonna, can I show the book off?

• 1:49:58Speaker 03

  Wait, look at, I also brought you each an alpha pussy t-shirt. I designed them myself.

• 1:50:03Speaker 02

  They're so good.

• 1:50:04Speaker 03

  They're only medium. I hope they fit.

• 1:50:06Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:50:07Speaker 03

  This is for you. This is for you.

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  Wow, thank you so, so much. Oh, my god, yes, and...

• 1:50:11Speaker 03

  And I'm so glad.

• 1:50:12Speaker 02

  The book is phenomenal. I loved it so much.

• 1:50:15Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:50:15Speaker 02

  We're in a great memoir space right now with everybody.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  Got good pull quotes here. I mean, um, uh, what do you call it?

• 1:50:22Speaker 03

  Miley Cyrus.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  Simonials, all her blazas and Miley Cyrus.

• 1:50:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. Miley's is insane.

• 1:50:27Speaker 01

  It's as...

• 1:50:28Speaker 03

  It's so nice.

• 1:50:28Speaker 01

  It's a riot as electric as she is, as Miley Cyrus.

• 1:50:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:32Speaker 03

  She's so nice. And James, he was a nice one, too. It's, people are so nice. I'm glad they're liking it and thank you for, for talking about it on the show because, you know, you gotta sell the book, I guess.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  You gotta, you gotta move product.

• 1:50:44Speaker 03

  You gotta move product.

• 1:50:45Speaker 01

  You gotta move product.

• 1:50:45Speaker 03

  But I wanted to do this podcast ever since, you know, before I'm when I, I was like, I want to do your guys' podcast. Remember when we met?

• 1:50:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:50:53Speaker 03

  At a...

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  Well, you know, the first night we met was at SNL 50 where you were sitting with Lori. And then the, then we met again.

• 1:50:59Speaker 03

  Was that with Lori Anderson?

• 1:51:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think you were.

• 1:51:02Speaker 02

  SNL 50?

• 1:51:03Speaker 03

  Was that at the 50th? I remember talking...

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  At the concert.

• 1:51:06Speaker 03

  Oh, at the concert.

• 1:51:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:51:07Speaker 03

  But then I remember being backstage.

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  Your room and then we were talking.

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  We were chatting up a storm, yeah.

• 1:51:12Speaker 03

  We were talking so much. I think Bad Bunny was there and then I missed him.

• 1:51:15Speaker 01

  You know what?

• 1:51:15Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  But we'll remember the conversation.

• 1:51:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:20Speaker 02

  We're just...

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 1:51:22Speaker 03

  I was just like, wow, I must really like these guys.

• 1:51:24Speaker 01

  Sorry, Benita, I kept Gina away from your performance.

• 1:51:27Speaker 03

  He said, where did you go? I was like, I was talking to the boys.

• 1:51:30Speaker 01

  We cock blocked Gina from Bad Bunny.

• 1:51:33Speaker 03

  I know. It's okay, fine, whatever.

• 1:51:35Speaker 01

  We end every episode with a song.

• 1:51:39Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, no, no, no, we need to do cabaret.

• 1:51:41Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, do cabaret.

• 1:51:42Speaker 01

  Maybe this time I'll be lucky. Maybe this time he'll stay.

• 1:51:53Speaker 03

  Peaceful, lady happy. That's where I long to be.

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  I'm really proud of our dynamics.

• 1:52:05Speaker 03

  All the odds are in my favor. Something's bound to begin.

• 1:52:14Speaker 01

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  Los Culturistas is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio Podcasts.

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