Santorini Wine with Panayiota Kalogeropoulou

The island of Santorini has not only has breathtaking views but also a fascinating history. Traces of its first inhabitants have been linked back to 4500 BC. In 1613 BC the most powerful volcanic event in the last 10,000 years took place – completely destroying all the islands within a 60 km radius. It has been estimated that 90 billion tons of molten rock was injected into the air, the sea swallowed the volcano, and a massive tsunami swept across the Aegean Sea. Along with the obvious devastation of nature, it is believed that the eruption also sealed the deal for the most civilized nation on the island at the time, the Minoans. Thanks to the thick layer of ash cause by the event, the Bronze Age settlement of Akrotiri was so well preserved that we are able to see how prosperous the area had once been with an elaborate drainage systems, multi-storied buildings, incredible wall paintings, furniture and vessels. The site has as much of a significant importance as does Pompeii. The island’s main volcanic rock, its mineral rich soil, and the amazing climate, has produced some incredibly unique wines. Santorini is known for some of the oldest vineyards in the world. And we know that wine is one of my favourite topics. On today’s podcast I speak with Panayiota Kalogeropoulou about Santorini’s wines. Panayiota is the Director at the Domaine Sigalas vineyard. Paris Sigalas, a mathematician with a goal to make his Santorini vineyard a world heritage site, focuses on grapes that thrive in Santorini (these include the Aidani, Athiri, Plantana – and the prime Greek grape Assyrtiko). *** Go Premium: Members get early access, ad-free episodes, hand-edited transcripts, searchable transcripts, member-only episodes, and more. Sign up at: https://fs.blog/membership/ Every Sunday our newsletter shares timeless insights and ideas that you can use at work and home. Add it to your inbox: https://fs.blog/newsletter/ Follow Shane on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/ShaneAParrish Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Shane Parrish?

  Hey, welcome to The Knowledge Project. I'm your host Shane Parrish, curator behind the Farnham Street blog, which is an intellectual hub of interestingness, covering topics like human misjudgment, decision-making, strategy, philosophy, and culture. The Knowledge Project allows me to interview amazing people from around the world and deconstruct why they're good at what they do and get it inside their head. It's more conversation than prescription, but seeing the world as they see it. The next episode is the second of two interviews that I conducted while traveling in Greece this summer. The island of Santorini has not only breathtaking views but a fascinating history. Traces of its first inhabitants have been linked back to 4,500 B.C. In 1613 B.C.,

• 0:50Shane Parrish?

  the most powerful volcanic event in the last 10,000 years took place, completely destroying all of the islands within a 60-kilometer radius. It's been estimated that 90 billion tons of molten rock was injected into the air. The sea was swallowed. The volcano and a massive tsunami swept across the Aegean Sea along with the obvious devastation of nature. It's believed that the eruption also sealed the deal for most civilized nation on Earth at the time, the Minoans. Thanks to the thick layer of ash caused by the event, the Bronze Age settlement in Santorini was so preserved that we're able to see how the prosperous area had once been, with the elaborate drainage system, multi-storied building, incredible wall paintings, furniture, and vessels. The site has as much of a significant

• 1:33Shane Parrish?

  importance as does Pompeii. The island's main volcanic rock is mineral-rich soil. The amazing climate has produced some incredibly unique wines. Santorini is known for some of the oldest vineyards in the world. And we know that wine is one of my favorite topics. On today's podcast, I speak with Penneotia. Penneotia is the director of Domain Sigalas Vineyard. Paris Sigalas, a mathematician with a goal to make Santorini Vineyard a World Heritage Site, focuses on grapes that thrive in Santorini. She walks me through the different types of grapes and wines, and explains why wine is so unique and special on the island of Santorini. This was certainly a fun one. I hope you enjoy it. If you're

• 2:17Shane Parrish?

  planning on visiting Santorini, I highly recommend you visit the vineyard Domain Sigalas and check out the distinctness of their wines. Be sure to ask for a glass of your favorite.

• 2:33Shane Parrish?

  So I'm here on the famous Domain Sigalas. And we're going to talk about the history of wine on Santorini. Where did that all start?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  For sure, after the volcanic eruption.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  We are talking about a continuous vineyard for more than 3,000 years. The huge volcanic eruption took place in 1620 B.C. But this is what is now the production in Santorini, the volcanic soil. We are talking about, as I mentioned before, a continuous vineyard in Santorini, with that phylloxera never infected the vineyard. So we're lucky, we maintain in the same varieties. As you know, the most important variety is called Acirico.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  And then we have Athiri, Aydani, Gaidurria, Katsanò, Greek and, sorry, white grape varieties. And for the red grapes varieties, there is Mavro Tragano and Mandilaria.

• 3:43Shane Parrish?

  And so those have been in continuous production since?

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Since, for more than 3,000 years here.

• 3:50Shane Parrish?

  That's insane.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Insane, yeah, but hopefully right now.

• 3:54Shane Parrish?

  Where does that put it on the world scale? Is that one of the oldest places?

• 3:58Speaker 01

  It's the oldest, it's one of the oldest vineyards all over the world.

• 4:03Shane Parrish?

  And how did they used to make wine? I know number six here, the.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  The history about the Nikteri.

• 4:11Shane Parrish?

  Yeah.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, you want to talk about that? It's a nice story.

• 4:15Shane Parrish?

  I do, I love that wine too. I want to know more about how it was made and.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Ah, okay. Well, this is their own house wine. This is the wine that they used to produce for their, for their own consumption. There was, in Santorini, there was a big trade here. We were under the Venetians for many years. We were selling, they were selling their grapes in Russia or different places, Italy. But for sure, they would kept for their own consumption, their own house wine, as we call it.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  I will tell you the small story behind that. And if you are interested also, I will tell you what we are not following for this small story. We're talking about Assyrtiko, also in Nikteri, but it's a late harvest wine. It's a wine that remains on the vine for 20 days to one month after the natural ripening of the grape. It's... When we say late harvest, you understand that we receive more residual sugar

• 5:34Shane Parrish?

  Right.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  and higher alcohol.

• 5:36Shane Parrish?

  Because the grapes get bigger.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  There is a sugar concentration and water evaporation because maintaining on the vine.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  This is what they do. They were all gathering together

• 5:52Speaker 01

  to do the Nikteri. Not to sleep at night and press the grapes by feet.

• 6:01Speaker 02

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  Maybe dark roast?

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  Vanilla?

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  Caramel?

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  Blueberry?

• 6:05Speaker 03

  You could get them to agree on one flavor or give everyone what they want.

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• 6:58Speaker 01

  We follow the same procedure, not by feet, but we are receiving the best quality of grape. As you understand, it's the Freyran juice that you can receive. If you press the grapes by feet, we do the same. It's 100% of a Sirtico, like they used to do.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  To use a Sirtico, it was the...

• 7:20Speaker 01

  At least the 60% of all the vinegar in Santorini used to be something... It was used to be a Sirtico. They were fermenting the wine. It used to ferment and age in old oak barrels. There was a tradition in making barrels, oak barrels in Santorini. And they used to seal the barrels with cement.

• 7:45Shane Parrish?

  Oh wow.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  But they left a blank in between. They didn't top up the barrels.

• 7:53Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Why? Because they might leave it like that for at least 3 or 5 years. So they might have a re-fermentation. This is what we don't follow. We follow exactly the same way. Late harvest wine, only a Sirtico. We're talking about higher alcohol and some residual sugar that you will find. For sure, it's a dry wine.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  We age our Sirtico for at least 30 months to 36 months in old oak barrels. The only difference we don't follow is that because of the climate conditions that are in our cellar, we don't leave the blank and we have... we top up the barrels. The most important is to remember that they used to produce Nictorit with 17 degrees of alcohol and 20 degrees of alcohol. And they had the floor appearance. The floor that we can find also in the sherry, in the Spanish wines.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  So the floor was protecting the wine

• 9:07Shane Parrish?

  Oh wow.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  and gave these oxidative aromas to their wines.

• 9:10Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Eh, there is a great potential of aging in these wines because of the sugar content.

• 9:17Shane Parrish?

  Right.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  And because of the high alcohol content. Eh.

• 9:21Shane Parrish?

  So.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  If you are lucky on the, on the island and taste an old Nikteri from an old man, you will be amazed.

• 9:28Shane Parrish?

  They still make it today.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 9:30Shane Parrish?

  Oh, really?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 9:31Shane Parrish?

  Are they still aging it thirty months, though, in an Okapera?

• 9:33Speaker 01

  More, three years, five years.

• 9:36Shane Parrish?

  Oh, man, and that's been going on for hundreds of years.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 9:39Shane Parrish?

  Um, is this one high alcohol content? What would be the alcohol?

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Fifteen degrees.

• 9:43Shane Parrish?

  Fifteen percent, wow, that's insane. They must have had a great time after a couple of drinks of that.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Eh, you know, in Greece, you have birthday, you have a feast. You don't have birthday, you have a feast, but for sure you drink wine, always.

• 9:56Shane Parrish?

  So, everybody tells me, um, to try Santorini wine. It's so distinct, it's so flavorful. Uh, what have you found that you love about it in comparison to other Greek wines?

• 10:09Speaker 01

  I will not compare it with other Greek, eh, wines because it's a totally different approach because of the soil, first of all.

• 10:15Shane Parrish?

  Right.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Eh.

• 10:16Shane Parrish?

  With the lava, the.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  It's ash, sand, and palm stones.

• 10:20Shane Parrish?

  Right.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  And that's why we haven't had the phylloxera here, because we have sand, a lot of content of sand, which is not a friendly environment for phylloxera. For me, the uniqueness eh of Sirtico is the extreme

• 10:41Speaker 01

  flavors and the extreme potential eh for the wine. You can work on this variety. You can have it in dry version, in sweet version, eh, in Nikteri that I told you already. Barrel aged, eh, stainless steel, stainless steel on the liz for eighteen months or for thirty months. So it's a grape that generally it has very.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Fresh aromas of lemon, citrus, white-skinned peach, lime, grapefruit. Although we are a hot climate, this is the extreme that I'm describing. You see a very hot climate, but with aromas that you would receive from a cold climate like Chablis. Let's say these aromas is more evident and occur in places that are colder than us. We are Mediterranean, the GNC. So we have these aromas. By the time it starts aging, the wine in the bottle, two years after the bottling,

• 11:49Speaker 01

  we have very evident the minerality that you can smell on the wine. There are, there is an austerity in the aromas. And when we're talking about the flavors in the mouth, we are talking about a very refreshing wine with aromas of lemon, citrus, also the same aromas like in the nose, but with a very long-lasting aftertaste and high acidity. So it refreshes your mouth and...

• 12:24Shane Parrish?

  Is it the acidity that refreshes it? Like, that's what makes it refreshing? That's interesting.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Also the aromas that are, that are evident in the mouth. But this is what makes it unique. Very high acidity, because our soil lacks of potassium. So we receive wines with very low pH, grapes with very low pH. And it's very easy for us to produce wine with very high acidity content.

• 12:57Shane Parrish?

  Can you walk me through from harvest to bottle in my hand, the process of making wine?

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Okay. It depends on what wine you want to produce. If you could say the simple Santorini that we are produce, 100% of acerico in stainless steel tank. The first bottling, the wine stops the fermentation and it can remain with the leaves for two months and then we release it in the market.

• 13:28Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  You might want to produce a wine that you want the wine to ferment and age in a new French oak barrels, for example. This is a totally different approach because you receive a wine after six months in the bottle and for sure it needs time to remain also in the bottle in order to be very balanced and to consume. Generally, what I believe is that a Ciertico, in order to give you this extremity, I was telling you, and to be very balanced after the bottling, needs at least one year in the bottle.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  And with a great potential of aging, at least seven years in the bottle.

• 14:16Shane Parrish?

  Oh, wow.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  So, we are starting from fresh aromas and then we continue with very mineral and nutty aromas with, we continue something like, you could smell apricot, fresh apricot, but the wine can be five years old. You can smell lemon peel or lemon pie. It's how you make the procedure of fermentation and anything in order to be bottled and what you want to produce.

• 14:51Shane Parrish?

  What's your favorite wine that you produce?

• 14:54Speaker 01

  En Domenica Gallas?

• 14:55Shane Parrish?

  Yes.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  It's our single vineyard. It's called Cavaleros, the man that rides the horse. It comes from a single vineyard that it is stated in Imero Vigli, a high-altitude village. It's near to Fira. High altitude, we are talking about 350 meters.

• 15:16Shane Parrish?

  Above sea level?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Above sea, yeah. And...

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• 16:17Speaker 01

  This is the first vineyard that Paris Igalas started buying grapes. It's a long, huge story behind this label.

• 16:30Shane Parrish?

  Let's get into that. Tell me the story behind the label.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Okay, I will tell you. He started buying the grapes from Mr. George Jorgos in Greece. In 1991, this old man decided to sell his grapes to a private winery and not to the cooperative, as it used to be done since then.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  So he was receiving these grapes and every year he knew that he was receiving the best quality of grape and the wine and the juice that was producing had a very, very well-balanced fineness, very evident the minerality content, and very gentle aromas of the fruit. So in 2009, he decided to vinify separately than from the other acirto that he was receiving. And we produced a label with the name Cavaleros, the name of the vineyard.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Mr. George said that this wine, this specific vineyard, used to override all the others and it was his best. That's why he called it Cavaleros, the man that rides a horse, and all these etc.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  So in 2009, eh, we produced the new label of Cavaleros, 100% of Assyrtiko, but with something different. He eh, released it in the market in 2011, the 2009, and the wine remained on the list for 18 months in stainless steel tanks, with a great potential of aging and very, very eh, evident the minerality and eh, the fresh aromas of lemon, lemon peel, with very high acidity.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  It's an amazing wine with a great potential of aging.

• 18:35Shane Parrish?

  Why do you age it in stainless steel tanks and not eh?

• 18:38Speaker 01

  In barrels, you mean?

• 18:39Shane Parrish?

  Or the, yeah.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  But we have the other labels in barrels.

• 18:42Shane Parrish?

  Okay. What, what would that do to the flavor of it, do you think, if you?

• 18:46Speaker 01

  If we did it, this specific vinegar in barrels, you mean?

• 18:49Shane Parrish?

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Eh, I believe that the aromas of Assyrtiko are very gentle and eh, not that evident and pronounced. So the oak might change a little bit and will not give all this austerity that we would love to have. If, if you would ask me if it's to compare the grape Assyrtiko with something else, I would compare it with an Alsatean Riesling or a German Riesling.

• 19:22Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  But for sure, the mouth is a totally different from the Rieslings.

• 19:29Shane Parrish?

  Can you walk me through what the most difficult and fragile state of the wine making process is?

• 19:37Speaker 01

  What do you mean difficult?

• 19:38Shane Parrish?

  When is it most fragile?

• 19:41Speaker 01

  The wine.

• 19:41Shane Parrish?

  When you're making the wine, is it like immediately after you put it in the barrel, is it when you're picking the, the grapes?

• 19:49Speaker 01

  If you receive very good quality for the grapes, there is no fragile in something like that. Eh, at least what I have seen from the wine maker here and our enologist.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  I would say the pressing. This is.

• 20:08Shane Parrish?

  The pressure?

• 20:08Speaker 01

  The pressure. Is the time that you press the grapes.

• 20:11Shane Parrish?

  Oh, interesting.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  And it's not for the good or bad quality. It's as less as you press, the best quality you receive for the juice.

• 20:21Shane Parrish?

  Oh.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  So this is the difference between the winemakers.

• 20:25Shane Parrish?

  And the more volume you get, the more, the higher you press, right? So you guys do, what, three hundred thousand bottles a year?

• 20:31Speaker 01

  We have the potential, this potential of four hundred thousand bottles.

• 20:34Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Our aim is the quality and not the quantity. So I would say that we produce approximately two hundred fifty thousand bottles, but we are talking about six, eh, six dry white wines. One rosé, two dry reds, vin sando that now we have released in the market two thousand six, the vintage. So as you understand, it's approximately twenty-four thousand cases of twelve bottles.

• 21:03Shane Parrish?

  And are most of those exported to other countries or are most of them consumed?

• 21:08Speaker 01

  The percentage, it's the thirty-five percent is eh in Greece. And the rest eh in Greece, I will say with no Santorini.

• 21:19Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  And Santorini, it's approximately the fifteen percent.

• 21:22Shane Parrish?

  Oh, okay.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Eh, because of the wine tasting room, so as you understand, there is the people and the guests here buy a lot. And also the market of Santorini, it's more easy for you to sell a Santorini wine, you are in the wine region.

• 21:36Shane Parrish?

  Right.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  And the fifty percent is exported, yes.

• 21:39Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  The States, Canada, Germany, Belgium, Japan, eh Hong Kong, China.

• 21:49Shane Parrish?

  And can you, just to go back for one second, can you walk me through why you produce so many different varieties? Is that just because the grapes?

• 21:57Speaker 01

  So many different varieties or labels?

• 21:59Shane Parrish?

  Yeah, different labels, sorry, yes. Grape variety is the same, but the labels are.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  It's the winemaker.

• 22:04Shane Parrish?

  Yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  He will never stop experimenting.

• 22:07Shane Parrish?

  How do you experiment with that? Do you kill them off if they're not working or they don't turn out the way you want?

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Of course, we kill them off if they're not working.

• 22:12Shane Parrish?

  And I noticed the vineyard was called an experimental vineyard?

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, we are sitting next to our first experiment, the Eratical Vineyard, as they called it in nineteen ninety-seven. First Parzic Galas started experimenting on the variety, which the name is Mavro Traganò.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Eh.

• 22:33Shane Parrish?

  I won't be spelling that.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Mavro means black and Traganò means crunchy.

• 22:38Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  So it's black and crunchy in a word. So Parisigallas is one of the first winemakers and Hatzidakis, another winemaker from Pirgos village, that they starting experimenting in red grapes. Until nineteen ninety seven, the red grapes used to be used for their naturally sweet dessert wines. And they you, it, they used to be a, a, a small percentage in red grapes in the vin sando. Since two thousand two and under the legislation, you are not allowed to use red grapes in the vin sando production.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  So there were, as you understand, a very small percentage for the red grapes. Zero point zero five, something like that. So they started replanting this variety that was under extinction. And until today, we managed to produce eight thousand to ten thousand bottles of one hundred percent of Mavro Traganò in dry version. This is the first vineyard that surrounds the, the wine tasting room. In nineteen ninety seven and until today, we own ten hectares of high density, eh, planting of Mavro Traganò. We're talking about seven thousand five hundred plants per hectare.

• 24:03Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Eh, oh no, seven hundred fifty plants per hectare. Oh, no, no, seven thousand five hundred thousand per hectare. And eh, we do a green harvest. So we receive the same yield even from the trailer system. Because as you understand, on the traditional pruning, eh, you receive very low yield.

• 24:24Shane Parrish?

  Yeah.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  So we receive the same yield even with the trailer system and with the high density planting. And we do a green harvest, we cut half, approximately half of the clusters twenty days before the harvest of the Mavro Tragano for the dry red wine. And for the, with these clusters, we are producing our rosé wine from Mavro Tragano.

• 24:48Shane Parrish?

  With the ones that you cut twenty days before?

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 24:51Shane Parrish?

  Okay, that's interesting. Do you guys use any pesticides or anything, or is it all natural?

• 24:56Speaker 01

  It's an unorganic land.

• 24:57Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  It's a volcanic soil. We either, we might use copper or sulfites, but with a very low percentage if it's needed for the mildew or oidium. But ten years now, for me, it occurs twice. You, for sure, you put for sulfites, some sulfites, in order to prevent something like this, an appearance, but there is no reason for pesticides. It's an unorganic land. Volcano saved us, yeah.

• 25:29Shane Parrish?

  Yeah.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Not only us, you know, it's the fava beans, it's everything. It's tomatoes, it's the white eggplants, everything. The wine maker on the back, photo shooting.

• 25:43Shane Parrish?

  Just switching directions a little bit, what is the best part of showing people from all over the world the wines that you're producing here?

• 25:52Speaker 01

  What do you mean? Sorry?

• 25:55Shane Parrish?

  What's the best part of that expression of what you guys are trying to do? And people come here and they sit down, I mean, there's twelve.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  There's the pruning.

• 26:03Shane Parrish?

  There's twelve ones.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  The traditional pruning. It's the different ways of vinification, it's the history. Of course, the names are very hard to say, like Assirtico, Athiri, Aidani, it's not Merlos, Ardoné, or... But most of the people that are visiting Domain Cigallas, at least they live and they remember Assirtico.

• 26:25Shane Parrish?

  Right.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  This is very important. And for sure... They they get familiar with a variety that it's very rare and it has a great potential of aging.

• 26:37Shane Parrish?

  Are you guys open all year round or is it?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  In the wine tasting room, you mean, or the winery?

• 26:41Shane Parrish?

  No, the wine tasting room.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  We will try this this year. We are for sure open from March up to the end of December. January, February, it's a little bit difficult season, not only for the people that li- live permanently on the island, but also for the guests that are visiting. In any case, if you send an email, someone sends an email, it's always more than welcome in the wine tasting room. Eh, January, February, it's not that often.

• 27:15Shane Parrish?

  Right.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  But for sure, we will open if someone asks for something like that. But from March and up to the end of December, we are for sure open every day, except the Easter day.

• 27:28Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Every day.

• 27:30Shane Parrish?

  And uh, how can people find you?

• 27:33Speaker 01

  You mean that we are out of the Caldera?

• 27:35Shane Parrish?

  How how can be like, um, do you recommend, like, I guess, how do people get here?

• 27:42Speaker 01

  We are lucky because eh, after fourteen years now of the wine tasting room, we started like, you know, taste the four different labels that we own. Now we have eleven different labels for the wines, plus seven labels for the new eh, release that we did right now for a case of seven wines from different villages. And we produce also some distillates.

• 28:05Shane Parrish?

  Okay.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Eh, after fourteen years, first of all, the internet. So Domain Segal is mostly for people that are from the States or Canada. It's it's a very well-known winery. Eh, the hotels, it's a huge help. The hotels from all the island. And it's something you have to do. You know, it's like you're coming in Santorini, it's not only the beach, the Caldera, the food, the the gastronomical um, eh, destination. It's first, it's also the wine. Here we have also a restaurant that we do something like a food pairing.

• 28:43Shane Parrish?

  Yeah.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  We use our own local products. We plant our fava, we plant our tomatoes, our zucchinis, everything. So it's our production. And also we buy from the growers, anything that it's in season.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  And we do a food pairing with our wines.

• 29:01Shane Parrish?

  So would you recommend when people come here to visit the tasting room that they do the food pairing with the wine?

• 29:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:07Shane Parrish?

  And would you recommend that they do all the wines? I noticed that you distinguish between just the dry wines and then the dry and the sweet.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, most of the people do not prefer the dessert wines. For sure, if you are visiting Santorini, you have to drink vin sando.

• 29:22Shane Parrish?

  Yeah, it has such a distinct.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  It's for me, it's one of the best dessert wines that are produced all over the world.

• 29:30Shane Parrish?

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  I will not talk about Charente, but for sure vin sando is something, a totally different approach, we would say.

• 29:40Shane Parrish?

  And just one more question before I let you go here. But what would you like all tourists to know that they don't know on Santorini?

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Ha, nice question. For sure, all, all the visitors, I would say guests. It's people that for sure drink wine, yeah?

• 30:01Shane Parrish?

  Yeah. I mean, who doesn't drink wine, really?

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, no one.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  To explore the wine region, not only the caldera and the sunset of Santorini.

• 30:15Shane Parrish?

  And hopefully, listening to you will help people come here and explore this. Highly recommended.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Yes, hopefully, you know.

• 30:26Shane Parrish?

  Hey, guys, this is Shane again. Just a few more things before we wrap up. You can find show notes at farnamstretblog.com/podcast. That's F A R N A M S T R E E T B L O G dot com slash podcast. You can also find information there on how to get a transcript. And if you'd like to receive a weekly email from me filled with all sorts of brain food, go to farnamstretblog.com/newsletter. This is all the good stuff I've found on the web that week that I've read and shared with close friends, books I'm reading, and so much more. Thank you for listening.