E204 – Dr. William Li: The Body's 5 Health Defense Systems, Cancer, Microplastics & Healing From the Inside Out

Dr. William Li is a Harvard-trained physician, co-founder of the Angiogenesis Foundation, and New York Times bestselling author whose work centers on one quietly radical premise: the power to stay healthy lives inside you. In this conversation, we explore the five hardwired defense systems the body runs continuously, angiogenesis, stem cells, the gut microbiome, immunity, and DNA protection, and what it looks like to actually support them through food, sleep, and daily choices. What We Dive Into: 1. You are not just one organism. You carry 39 trillion bacteria inside you, many of which send signals up through the vagus nerve directly to the brain, shaping mood, social behavior, and stress levels. 2. Your body was born with 70 million extra stem cells stored in bone marrow, ready to mobilize and repair damage whenever called. Sleep, food, and metabolic health directly influence how effectively they do their job. 3. The environment is full of things we cannot fully control, microplastics, toxins, pollution. What we can control is whether our internal defense systems are strong enough to handle the load. Chronic stress degrades those systems faster than most environmental exposures. Know Thyself, but not by yourself. A guided space to return home to yourself. https://www.knowthyselfcollective.com ✨THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: https://drinkLMNT.com/KnowThyself Try LMNT & get a free sample pack https://oneskin.co/KNOWTHYSELF Code KNOWTHYSELF for 15% off ___________ 00:00 Intro 01:42 Health Is Not the Absence of Disease 05:24 The Five Health Defense Systems 07:14 Defense 1: Angiogenesis and Blood Vessel Health 09:07 Defense 2: Stem Cells and the Body's Repair System 14:01 Defense 3: The Gut Microbiome and the Holobiont 21:38 Defense 4: The Immune System as Inner Army 31:44 Defense 5: DNA Repair and the Iron Dome Within 36:48 Cancer Is Growing in All of Us Right Now 43:07 The Rising Cancer Rates and Why They're Skewing Younger 47:40 Microplastics: Where They Come From and Why They Matter 55:37 The Case for Keeping Your Shields Up 59:15 Practical Steps: Air, Water, and Food Quality 1:07:46 Sleep, Movement, and Stress as Health Defenses 1:11:04 The Danger of Chronic Overeating 1:19:09 The History of Abundance and the Clean Plate Myth 1:23:43 Bruce Lee and the Philosophy of Personalized Health 1:29:00 What Modern Medicine Got Right and What It Lost 1:32:42 The Interstitium, Acupuncture, and Converging Worlds 1:35:34 The Future of Cancer Treatment and Health Span 1:44:42 Dr. Li's Favorite Foods and Why He Loves Them 1:55:53 The Science of Dark Chocolate 1:59:00 Closing Message: Optimize Your Gut ___________ ✨MORE FROM DR. WILLIAM LI ↳Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drwilliamli/ ↳Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drwilliamli/ ↳YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DrWilliamLi ↳Eat to Beat Your Diet Book: https://drwilliamli.com/etb-diet-book/ ↳Eat to Beat Disease Book: https://drwilliamli.com/book-li/ ↳https://drwilliamli.com 📜MORE FROM KNOW THYSELF ↳Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4bZMq9l ↳Apple: https://apple.co/4iATICX ↳Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/ ↳TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@andreduqum ↳Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/knowthyselfbyandreduqum/ ↳https://knowthyselfpodcast.com/ 👁️MORE FROM ANDRÉ ↳Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/@andreduqum ↳Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/know-thyself-podcast ↳Book recs: https://www.knowthyselfpodcast.com/book-list

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00André Duqum?

  Is it true that we all have cancer growing inside of us right now?

• 0:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is absolutely true. But actually, the more interesting question is, why don't we get cancer more often? Why are we always sick? And I will tell you, I'm a medical doctor. I have been involved with drug development, clinical trials. So I know quite a lot about that. Our body has its own hardwired systems. There are five of them firing at all cylinders. Warding off disease. We have the angiogenesis, stem cells, gut microbiome, immunity and DNA. And that's what we're going to talk about. But here's the thing, the reason that we have these health defenses is because just existing on planet Earth is exposing us to toxins. For example, people with the most microplastics in their blood vessels have a three to four fold higher risk of having a fatal stroke. When our shields go down, that's when the enemy missiles can come right in.

• 0:48André Duqum?

  You've dealt with this in your own personal family life.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Including my own mother. She had stage four cancer. That's a game over. And I said, no, no, she's got health defenses. Her own 80 year old body wipe out stage four cancer. The power to stay healthy actually lives inside us. But at the end of the day, people just want to know what to do. So let's just tackle some practical things. If I had to tell you one thing, I would say, watch your.

• 1:19André Duqum?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Know Thyself Podcast. Our guest today is a Harvard trained physician, co-founder, president and medical director of the Angio Genesis Foundation. He is a New York Times bestselling author and he's an incredible voice. Need to know more than ever, reminding us about the power that the body has to heal itself. Dr. Lee, thank you for being here.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:43André Duqum?

  At this stage of your life, how would you articulate the core focus of your work? And therefore, what everybody who's listening right now can get to expect from spending the time with us today?

• 1:57Speaker 01

  You know, I'm a scientist by training and I have to say, I'm passionate about discovery and science. I'm always looking for, what are we finding out that's new and meaningful? That can, that can be life changing. And then finding out what you can do about it. And so it's that combination of curiosity, excitement, passion and application. I think we're going to talk about.

• 2:26André Duqum?

  Health is not just the absence of disease. Can you say more?

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Right. I'm a medical doctor, a physician, internal medicine is my training. And when I was in medical school, I was inundated with professors teaching me about one disease after another, diabetes and pneumonia and Alzheimer's and cancer. And I always wondered, why aren't we being taught about health? What's the definition of health? And some of my professors used to laugh, maybe even sneer at me when I asked them, what is health? Teach me about health. They would say, well, you know, that's kind of silly. Health is just the absence of disease.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  And I knew that couldn't be true because the absence of something doesn't explain a state of being, right? Absence of money doesn't really simply explain poverty. Absence of war doesn't explain peace, right? So the absence of disease doesn't really explain health. And so I carried that that question with me, really from the beginning of my medical career all the way to present day. I'm interested in understanding why it is that we're healthy most of our lives and only part of our lives do we wind up getting sick. In other words, if I see a patient and they say, Dr. Lee, why did I get cancer? There's a, there's a stock answer to that. And there's probably

• 3:55Speaker 01

  an intelligent answer that I could personalize. But actually, the more interesting question that I ask myself is, why don't we get cancer more often? Why aren't we always sick? And the answer to this, which is really, I think, a light bulb being turned on in the room of my head in my career, is that health is actually the result of our body's own hardwired systems firing on all cylinders, helping us heal continuously, warding off disease, helping us dodge the things that we want to avoid most of our lives. Until inevitably, no one lives forever. And so you sort of take a little bit of an existential view.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  At some point, disease will come get us. But what a remarkable instrument our body is in terms of being able to navigate our entire life journey, healing.

• 4:52André Duqum?

  I think it's true that most people view the human body as something that works until one day it breaks. And we have so many individual friends and family members who at some point it breaks earlier than others. But the reminder that you're giving about the intelligence and the defense systems that the body has is important because it provides context for how we can understand that, change our behavior, and leverage those defense systems. So could you set the framework for what those are? That way, we can break them down a bit further.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to talk about that. But before, I want to just build on what you just said a little bit. So traditionally, people don't think about their health as much as we all should be thinking about now. We do. But it used to be that people just went around their lives doing their thing until they needed to go see a doctor. And the doctor, whether it was a woman or a male doctor, really was the authority. So there was this sort of authoritarian figure, who was the doctor, who would figure out what the problem is, give you the answer, and then write the prescription, and tell you what to do. And the script is completely flipped now.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Because what we realize with our own body's power for healing is that the power to stay healthy actually lives inside us. We do our own health care every single day, and doctors do sick care. We go to the emergency room of the hospital. We need something being done. It's kind of like if you have a car, you're maintaining your engine, you're changing your oil, making sure your tires are okay, making sure you're cleaning the car. That's what we do at home. That's health care. Sick care is when you need to bring your body to the auto shop, to the repair shop, to get something major done to it.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Okay, so what are those health defenses that live inside us that we actually pull the trigger on all the time? And there's five of them that I have been personally working on. And I have to say, there's more defenses that are being discovered. Even recently, there have been some remarkable new discoveries made worth touching on. But the five, the first one is called angiogenesis. That's angio, like blood, blood vessel, genesis, how our body grows blood vessels. It turns out that the first organ system that forms in our body is our circulation.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  And that's really this incredible process of generating the 60,000 miles worth of blood vessels are packed inside our bodies. 60,000. And these are the highways and byways that bring oxygen that we breathe, nutrients that we eat, and medicines that we might be taking to every single organ, every single cell in the body. So that is one of the health defenses that if, when your circulation fails, there's no way you're going to be healthy. So that's one of them. The second is our own stem cells. Sure, we hear about going to different countries for medical tourism to get stem cells injected and all that kind of stuff. And by the way, I have been involved with drug development, stem cell therapy, clinical trials.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  So I know quite a lot about what we sometimes hear about in the media or on social media. Most of that's not ready for prime time, from my perspective, but Mother Nature beat us to the punch. We have our own stem cells. So here's the thing, I always tell people, our stem cells inside our bodies are silently repairing us day and night, mostly during the night, but also during the day. And we're being fixed from the inside out. We don't feel it, we don't know it. You don't have to go to the doctor to get it. In fact, the doctor can't give it to you. We can give it to ourselves by the food that we eat stimulates our stem cells, by the rest we get stimulates our stem cells.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  And even our metabolism can actually help to influence how well our stem cells repair us from the inside out. So I want to tell you what a stem cell is. Stem cell is, think about it as a baby cell. When your dad's sperm met your mom's egg. And we were just a ball of cells. Those are all stem cells. We didn't have a face. We didn't have a big toe. We didn't have a heart or liver. And those stem cells eventually figured out what they wanted to become.

• 9:25André Duqum?

  Who they wanted to be when they grew up.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Who they wanted to be when they grew up. Nine months later.

• 9:29André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, here's what's a really cool thing, I think, about stem cells. When we're born at nine months, by the time we're ready to be born, those stem cells have formed every single or necessary organ in the body, right? We are a whole package. But the way that we evolved is not to have just enough stem cells. We've got extra stem cells lying around. Like, you don't want to be running out of stem cells. You know, one more stem cell needed to grow your liver. Ah, damn, we ran out of it, right? So that doesn't happen. In fact, by the time we're ready to come out of mom, we have 70 million extra stem cells.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  That's the overage, like extra cans of paint to, you know, fix it up your house. Stick them in the garage in case you ever need to touch up the paint. That's exactly what our stem cells do. We've got 70 million extras.

• 10:25André Duqum?

  Where is the garage in our body?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Ah, great question. So the moment the doctor sniffs the umbilical cord, and you might have heard that you can actually squeeze out stem cells, umbilical stem cells at birth. But actually, once that cord is cut, no more stem cells are going into the baby. Whatever we've got, that 70 million, starts to pack themselves up like shirts in a shirtbox being stored away. And where do they get packed up? Mostly in our bone marrow. So if you don't know what a bone marrow is, it's the soft, dark inside of a bone. You ever broke a chicken bone? He would say, "You've got the hard, bony stuff on the outside. It's hollow on the inside, but filled with dark material. That's stem cells."

• 11:11Speaker 01

  So, think about stem cells like bees in a hive, hanging out inside your bone. And then whenever we need to repair, like whether you cut yourself, or whether there's a piece that needs to be repaired, the stem cells will come flying out of our bone marrow, like bees coming out of a hive. And they will just fly around, looking for the areas that need to be repaired. Just fix that spot, then go back to roost.

• 11:36André Duqum?

  Why do they get outside of the bone from the inside?

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Ah, so, this is a very interesting area. Signals are sent to them. So, if you cut yourself, let's say, paper cut, or you fall off your bike and you scrape your knee, that injury, which is, you know, we say ouch, but our skin and the damaged tissue says SOS. We need some help to fix ourselves here. So while we're seeing the bleeding stop and the scab form over the top, what that injury is doing is sending little protein signals into our bloodstream. And these are literally SOS signals, signal flares. And they basically tell our stem cells,

• 12:23Speaker 01

  "Hey, guys, we need a few of you over here." And so they come flying out. They find just that injured spot. They rebuild them, and then they go away. And then we are healing from the inside out. So, you know, when you cut yourself and you put a Band-Aid on, you think that you're healing, just covering up the wound. Actually, no, most of the healing is from the inside out. That's our health defense system, our stem cells. And what we have now begun to appreciate, just as much as we understand blood vessels are important, our circulation, our stem cells rebuild our body all the time. And we know that we're rebuilding our body. Our gut, the entire lining of our intestines, turn over every five days. Okay? We know our skin repairs itself, right?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  You ever get sunburned and it flakes off and it's new skin? Or dendruff, for example? Our hair grows back. You get a haircut, or you shave, it'll grow back, right? That's regeneration.

• 13:22André Duqum?

  It makes me think about who everybody's listening right now. We're all on our own individual health journey and it's on a spectrum, right? There's not one definite state of health or disease, but different parts of us are at different, on different parts of that spectrum. And it's an empowering reminder that you're giving, because whatever it is that we are dealing with currently, or one day that we might deal with, we can, and I'm excited to dive into the behaviors and the tools and the foods that can help activate the regeneration that our body is capable of that has been latent.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we literally heal from the inside out all the time. The third health defense system of the five is our gut. You've heard about gut health, gut microbiome, healthy bacteria? Well, listen, we were once known as humans, but humans are only one species inside our casing. It turns out we've got 39 trillion bacteria growing inside us, like a coral reef, if you think about it. Go to, if anybody's been to the Great Barrier Reef, amazing ecosystem. You got the reef itself, but you've got millions of organisms, and fish and eels and crabs and all kinds of stuff

• 14:42Speaker 01

  living around that reef. We are the same way. We have a human body, but inside our body, we're filled with 39 trillion bacteria, healthy bacteria. And by the way, when I went to medical school, I was told, within the first week, bacteria are bad, must kill bacteria, must memorize the bacteria, and must memorize the antibiotics to kill the bacteria. Well, it turns out, and this is the really remarkable turnabout, I think, in medicine, is that we now realize that most of the bacteria that we're going to meet in our lives are good bacteria. Occasionally, we meet a bad guy, but usually they're all good. 39 trillion of them. So, by the way, do you know what we call an organism

• 15:26Speaker 01

  that is not just one species, but that have multiple species growing inside or around it? We don't call them human. We call it holobiont, H O L O B I O N T. So technically, we're only partly human, but our whole, whatever we're, whatever we get dressed and go out, we are actually a walking holobiont. We're basically like a coral reef, part human, part bacteria, and these bacteria are doing all these wondrous things inside our body. They are helping to control inflammation, lower inflammation. They are helping to lower our cholesterol. No statin can do what a, what our natural bacteria does.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  They are helping our blood glucose improve. They are also doing some amazing things with our mental state. You know, if you want to think about that continuum between really stressed out and activated versus really calm zen, almost the spiritual quality, our gut bacteria actually play a role in that, partly because our gut bacteria text message our brain. They are actually sending SMS signals up through a nerve in our body called the vagus nerve, which is mostly in our gut, and it reverses the signal, goes right up to our brain, and

• 16:51Speaker 01

  it reshapes our mood, which is really remarkable, that these bacteria actually help influence how our attitude, our, whether we feel comfortable, whether we're social. That's quite a remarkable thing.

• 17:07André Duqum?

  It also kind of destabilizes this notion that you are this individual, single, solid, separate self, but you're a living ecosystem. You are kind of a steward for all these gut guys, which you are mostly made up of. And it also brings into question, which is probably aside for another conversation, this idea of free will and agency. You know, of course, we are not run just by bacterial zombie overlords in our gut, you know, but they do, like you mentioned, have an incredible influence on our mood and our thoughts. And sometimes, and I know I've slipped into this in the past, when we want to like, address a health concern, or feel better, we kind of come from this top-down way of thinking

• 17:51André Duqum?

  of like, what can I do, rather than what does this system need?

• 17:54Speaker 01

  What can we do?

• 17:55André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  I mean, that's actually a really useful way to think about it, is that we are our own community. We were born that way. By the way, do you know how the bacteria get into our bodies? This is a really remarkable story.

• 18:09André Duqum?

  From birth, right? Through our mother?

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Happens before birth, actually. It turns out that around eight months of pregnancy, when our bodies are almost ready, you know, the cake is almost ready to come out of the oven. About eight months, the placenta, which is like the connection between mom and baby, knows when we're about a month away, there are text messages sent to the mom's colon, gut, and it says, dudes, let's get ready, because we've got about a month. And some healthy bacteria hitch a ride on our blood cells, and they actually take the journey. It's like calling an Uber. And they journey from the mom's gut

• 18:56Speaker 01

  all the way up to her nipple, and the Uber drops them off there.

• 19:00André Duqum?

  Why do they got to stop at the nipple?

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Because when the baby comes out, get some skin time, crawl up to the mom's nipple, take that first suckle of breast milk, and boom, you get injected.

• 19:11André Duqum?

  I thought they were just taking the scenic route. Okay, so it's both through the placenta and through breastfeeding?

• 19:20Speaker 01

  And there's a connection between it. And of course, when the baby comes through the birth canal, there's also healthy bacteria that are in the vagina as well. There's vaginal microbiome. And so really, we're exposed to all kinds of things. And the bacteria start taking off, and they grow into this natural colony. And so I like the idea of talking about agency and how we feel on this mind-gut, brain-gut connection, right? So, look, I'm sure anybody watching or listening to this, you've been here.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  The night before you go to bed, you're feeling great. Wake up in the morning and, you know, get out of bed and you're not feeling that great. Your guts verbally, a little crampy, just not feeling good. Well, what happens to your mood when that happens? You're kind of in a crappy mood the rest of the day.

• 20:15André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Like, and you're just like, I just don't feel that great. Well, the reason that you're in a crappy mood is because your gut is sending signals to your brain, S and S-ing your brain, saying, look, we're not, we're not good. There is a problem in our gut. We gotta, we're gonna, we're working hard to fix it. We're sending the road crews out to come patch up whatever potholes are on there. For most of us, eventually that, that problem will get fixed and we, when we regain who we are and we're in a better mood, right? You know, I gotta go out to dinner tonight. I don't want to be feeling like this. Well, by the time dinner rolls around, you're actually okay. The gut fixed itself. This is this inner repair that actually affects how we interact with the world around us in a pretty profound way.

• 21:00André Duqum?

  It makes me bring into question, you know, when we feel ill, we catch a cold, we feel discomfort, or even at the extreme, get a diagnoses. We have so much resistance often to these things and we feel like they're happening to us instead of they're like intelligent signals from the body saying, hey, we, we need some support here. And I'm curious your thoughts on that because the way that you just described all these, you know, the bacteria and through the vascular system and our cells in our body, it's like they are constantly sending us signals.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, well, you know what? So there's two more health defenses and I want to bring up one of them early because you just mentioned about catching a cold, right? So yeah, we all grew up that way, thinking, you know, like, yeah, I'm, I'm totally fine. And then you go out and it's cold outside and you walk back in and I caught a cold or you go take a bus or take a plane ride. You come back and you're like, oh man, I got sick because somebody else was sick. Well, here's the truth. We are surrounded by bacteria.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Including the cold virus all the time, but it's our immune system, which is the health defense that is always propped up, warding off those bacteria that are surrounding all the time. We get sick when our shields go down, when our health defense is weakened, then the bacteria is able to get into your body and cause us problems. And we heal. We get over the cold. When our immune system goes back up, our shields are back up. So once again, it's really this dynamic system, this ebb and flow, this adjustment. Think about the volume of a radio. You're, it's a little bit too soft. Let's turn it up a little bit. Oh, it's a little bit too loud. Can you turn it down a little bit?

• 22:51Speaker 01

  That's actually how our body's health defenses work. And our immune system, by the way, is so much more powerful than we ever thought because not only does it defend us against invaders from the outside world, bacteria, viruses, all those organisms on the outside that in, try to invade our body, but there, it also defends us against invaders inside our body as well. And those are cancer cells. Cancer is just another invader that sprung up inside our body naturally. And so our immune system basically is like an army of super soldiers that are patrolling our body all the time, like cops on a beat. Okay. But they're armed with really special weapons.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  So when they see even the tiniest little cancer cells sitting around lurking someplace, all right, this is long before you would have been diagnosed by cancer. They spot them, kind of like a patrol car in a suburban neighborhood. And they see a drug dealer sitting in a corner. They don't even have to be dealing drugs. It's just something that shouldn't be there. They pull them over. They see what they're, they get suspicious and they put them in the back of the paddy wagon and take them off. And that's exactly how our immune defense actually works against cancer. And, you know, within this year, May of this year, there was a major oncology meeting, cancer meeting, biggest cancer meeting in North America that showed that when you ramp up your immune system,

• 24:19Speaker 01

  you can actually achieve. Dramatic cancer survival improvements in ways that we never thought possible before for pancreatic cancer, for brain cancer, lung cancer, all these other cancers there. We're not done yet by any means, but we've seen more progress against the enemy of cancer by raising our shields than we ever thought was possible. So this isn't about the war on cancer. By the way, the whole lexicon of cancer is changing. We used to think about war on cancer, killing cancer, burning out cancer, smart bombing cancer. Guess what?

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Now we're not just talking about killing the cancer, we're talking about healing the person using the immune system, which is a radical shift, which is a recognition of just how powerful that fourth defense system actually is.

• 25:16Speaker 02

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• 26:00André Duqum?

  So I think most of us have heard of the importance of the immune system. It can be this quite elusive thing. It's like, what, when you say there's this army of super soldiers, they're like, what are these actual, what are the actual cells that comprise our immune system? And, and yeah, I think that context is helpful because we're seeing all these rise of these autoimmune disorders and diseases. And it's like this big question mark. It's like when we don't know what it is, we call it autoimmune sometimes, you know? So, so what actually is literally our immune system made of?

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Look, I could give you a very technical answer. You know, I could, I could teach a whole course on, on the immune system, which is what happens in med school. But I will actually try to boil it down into ways that actually get at, I think, what you're asking, which is, how do we really understand what the immune system actually is? So if I told you that we've got red blood cells, which should bring oxygen to our body, then there's other types of cells as well. White blood cells, which are actually immune cells. So they're, you know, within the liquid of our blood, which looks red. We've got, obviously got a lot of red blood cells there. But there's also white blood cells there as well. Those white blood cells are circulating. That, the, the super soldiers are already in the blood.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  So whenever you go to the doctor and you get a, the vial blood drawn, okay, to send out for some tests, they're looking for red blood cells. They're looking for white blood cells. Those white blood cells are your, part of your immune system. Now, you go into the lab and you can start breaking down, what kind of super soldiers are they? Are they Rangers? Are they Navy SEALs? Are they, you know, Green Berets? Like, what are they? And this is what's interesting. There's a whole different types of, of special forces that are out there, each armed with their own skill sets and weapons that can help do very specific functions. So, you know, like Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. That's how our immune system is also set up. So there are cells that you might read about now.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  You see this on social media. T cells, like T as in Thomas, or NK cells, natural killer cells, or B cells, B as in boy, B cells, right? So these are all the neutrophils and macrophages. Listen, I could dazzle you with vocabulary, but think about them more as just different kinds of soldiers that are all pre-programmed to do some remarkable things, which is defend us against disease and keep us healthy. Now, you mentioned autoimmune disease, right? And so so many of us worry, like, oh, does my immune system trigger happy? Do I have an autoimmune disease? I feel like I, I, I'm inflamed. What's going on in my body? And it's true.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  It could very well be that your immune system is a little overactive. You know, itchy trigger finger. You don't want those super soldiers to just want to fire their weapons off anytime. No, you've got to keep your, you know, holster your weapons until you need to. Right? And so that's can be autoimmune disease. It's like, conditions like lupus, or celiac, or rheumatoid arthritis. Those are true autoimmune conditions. What's interesting is why we're seeing more of these autoimmune conditions around seemingly than in the past. And so I'll throw out an interesting perspective.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Is it because we're getting more assaulted by the environment and toxins in the environment? Or, you know, things that are triggering our immune system? That's possible. Or is it that the things that we're exposed to lower our shields and damage our responses and make those super soldiers, immune super soldiers, more trigger happy? So they're not actually as well behaved. So they, it's like the military that loses their discipline. You don't want that. That could be a problem. And so what we do understand that connects our health defenses, we just talked about the gut microbiome. It turns out 70% of our immune system lives inside our gut. Not in the tube of the gut, but in the wall of the gut.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  So if you think of your gut like a garden hose, right? So snip your garden hose, and you'll see the empty middle. That's where the gut microbiome lives. But then think about the thick wall of the garden hose, like the wall of the hose itself. That's the intestinal wall, and that's where 70% of our immune system lives. So what's interesting is we now realize that our gut bacteria literally talk to our immune cells, the super soldiers. They have a communication. They're talking to each other all the time. And one of the roles for our gut bacteria is to calm our immune system. And how do they talk to each other? I always say it's kind of like college freshmen. In a cheap dorm with thin walls, you know, like you're, do you remember these days?

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Like where you're like, what do you want for dinner? What do you want in your pizza? And then your roommate doesn't even need to come out of the room. They just shout right through the wall, you know? I'll pepperoni or I'll green peppers. And that's actually how our gut bacteria talk to our immune system back and forth and back and forth through the thin walls of our gut. So when our gut bacteria are imbalanced, it's a condition called dysbiosis. All right? That's that queasy, we're not doing so well.

• 31:25André Duqum?

  Got a bunch of frat boys yelling through the walls.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. They're not giving the right signals anymore, you know? And so the immune system winds up not knowing quite what to do. They don't get the right signals. And so that might be overactive or they might not be active enough. And that's why if I had to tell somebody, if, you know, like I'm a busy person, I don't have a lot of time, just tell me one thing, Dr. Lee, that I need to do to take care of my health, I would say, watch your gut. That gut is so powerful that, and we're just beginning, we're just at the tip of the iceberg to understand what it can do, but we do know it keeps your immune system healthy. And if you don't want to get sick during the winter and you don't want to, you want to minimize your chances of developing a cancer and you want to lower your inflammation,

• 32:12Speaker 01

  you want to do all the things those super soldiers are supposed to do, let your gut do the heavy lifting.

• 32:19André Duqum?

  And I want to get into the behaviors and exposures that both undermine and then also propagate flourishing for our gut microbiome and our immune system in general. Shall we close out the fifth defense?

• 32:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's go to number five. And it's our DNA. Now, people who are not scientists sometimes get overwhelmed with the topic of DNA, our genetics. But, you know, listen, we know that DNA is our genetic code. It's a blueprint for all the proteins in our body. We know our DNA is unique. We know that we inherit our DNA from our mom and dad and our ancestors. We also know that our DNA can be damaged, right? So when DNA is damaged, it's called a mutation. And when you have a mutation in a cell because of damaged DNA, we know that cancers actually are created when you have mutated DNA and you have a mutant cell, which is a cancer, right?

• 33:15Speaker 01

  So I just explained, you know, like. Several months of medical school education, very briefly, on why our DNA needs to defend itself against damage, against mutations. So our DNA is much more than just the code, the bible by which our body's proteins are made, and way more than just our hair color and our skin color, and, you know, whether we can twist our tongue into a circle. Those are all genetic things as well. In fact, our DNA is constantly fixing itself. How do we know this? Well, you know what happens when you get a sunburn, right? Like, if you get repeated sunburns, what are you risk for?

• 34:00André Duqum?

  Cancer.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Skin cancer, melanoma, right? Now, how come, when you just go out into the sun ordinarily, how come you don't get skin cancer? Because the ultraviolet radiations are beaming down and damaging your DNA. Well, guess what? Normally, your DNA can fix itself. And this is why, when you're driving on a sunny California highway to work every day, and the sun is shining always from one side through your window, and you're basically getting a lot of ultraviolet radiations, that's why you don't have just one-sided skin cancer, because your DNA is fixing itself. And what's really remarkable is just how well and the different ways that our DNA can fix itself. You know, you've heard about the iron dome

• 34:44Speaker 01

  that Israel has to defend itself against incoming. That's what our DNA does. It has its own iron dome defense system, and it can build itself back up. So if you actually wind up damaging your DNA, well, first of all, the iron dome shields it from incoming, like ultraviolet radiation and toxins we don't want to breathe, microplastics and all kind of stuff. Let's say it does get damaged. Our DNA has this amazing highway road crew that will come out and fix it right away, and perfectly, right? So you gotta actually fix itself. So it's quite profound, like how our body fixes up. You know, alcohol, another thing that damages our DNA, or cigarette smoke. You know, a lot of the vices-

• 35:27Speaker 01

  That we encounter, we enjoy, part of our humanity that we indulge in. Those things are, you know, not always that great for our health. But don't worry, for the most part, if we don't abuse ourselves, we'll bounce right back. Because our DNA actually will bounce right back. And that's really quite a remarkable resilience that exists within us. And so the theme of the high five health defenses, angiogenesis, stem cells, gut microbiome, immunity, and DNA, these wind up becoming pillars of our health. And when they are functioning properly, that is what health is.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Not just the absence of disease, but those are the explanations for why we're able to enjoy the health span that we do get.

• 36:19André Duqum?

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• 37:02André Duqum?

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• 37:19André Duqum?

  So to probe a bit further into how to build the resiliency of the system and the regeneration of the system, I want to ask, which we touched on earlier in regards to cancer, is it true that we all have cancer growing inside of us right now?

• 37:35Speaker 01

  It is absolutely true that we have cancer forming in our body all the time. And that's different than actually developing clinical cancer where you're going to wind up getting chemotherapy. Let me explain. So I told you about DNA mutations defining what cancer is. It's a mutant cell. And DNA is one of these remarkable things that are in every single one of our cells that have to copy and paste themselves, right? That's the other thing is that when our cells are regenerating and replicating, that's why we're still here today compared to yesterday. And that's why we're still going to be here tomorrow compared to today,

• 38:18Speaker 01

  is that our cells are copying and pasting each other. Along the way of copying and pasting the cells, oh, we need another skin cell. We need another eyeball cell. We need another lip cell, another hair cell. In addition to copying themselves, they have to do a spell check when you're copying. Now, if I gave you an easy thing to copy, so anybody listening to this, you can try this if you want. If I said, write out on a piece of paper, Mary had a little lamb. Okay, something simple like that. And I told you to write it 10 times in pen or pencil, not keyboard, all right? Keyboard even worse. You probably could get it perfectly right 10 times.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  If I say, write, Mary had a little lamb 100 times, you might make a mistake, all right? Now, on a word processor, there's spell check. So you can just hit spell check and it'll find and fix it. That's what our DNA does. It's got its own spell check. So when it's copying and pasting itself, Forty trillion times, it's just how many cells in our human body. It's gonna make some mistakes. We have our own DNA spell check to find those errors and fix them. But it's not perfect. So forty trillion cells copying themselves pretty much every day. Even with the spell check, do you know how many mistakes are made? For example, if I asked you to make, to write Mary had a little lamb forty trillion times,

• 39:44Speaker 01

  you're definitely gonna be making some mistakes. You know how many mistakes are missed by the body's DNA fixing systems every 24 hours?

• 39:53André Duqum?

  How many?

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Ten thousand. Which is pretty remarkable when you think about forty trillion, okay? Only ten thousand. Those ten thousand mistakes that do happen every 24 hours become mutations, which means that every single day we're forming ten thousand mutant cells that are all microscopic cancers. Every day, from childhood to old age, this is what's happening. You're gonna miss a few, because there's so many, all right?

• 40:22André Duqum?

  Even as for babies and kids.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Even for a baby?

• 40:25André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, how come kids don't develop cancer more often than they do? And we do have childhood cancers, but why don't we not see cancer until you get to your 30s or 40s or 50s or older? I mean, I know it's happening younger now, but it's because those little mutations, those little microscopic cancers, what we call them, are sitting there. And then our next health defense system, the immune system, conducts patrol, drives by in a patrol car, sees that little abnormal mutant cell, puts it in a paddy wagon and gets rid of it. And that's why we do form cancers all the time. But our good, healthy immune system actually wipes them out

• 41:09Speaker 01

  long before we actually ever get diagnosed with a cancer. By the time you get diagnosed, by the way, you don't have one mutation. You've got a lot of cancer cells. You know, the smallest, you know, we always tell women to do self-breast exams, like in the shower, in addition to getting a mammogram, a screening mammogram, okay? Now, you know that when you take two fingers, this is something that people, if you have a good doctor, they should train you on this. You take two fingers and soap up your skin and you run your skin along your breasts for women, okay? That's the best way to feel for an unusual texture or lump.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  The smallest lump that you can feel is about a centimeter in size. One centimeter tumor in the breast already contains 1 billion cancer cells. And that 1 billion cancer cells can't live by themselves. They have hijacked our other health defense system, angiogenesis, to grow blood vessels to feed themselves. And that 1 billion, there's 1 billion cancer cells can just shed 100 million cancer cells into the circulation every 24 hours through the blood supply. So this is why we really need a good immune system to knock this out so it can never grow up.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  We need a good vascular blood vessel system to prevent the cancers from hijacking them, right? You need to put that solid cockpit door in so you can't, nobody can bust into it and try to take over the plane. That's exactly what our angiogenesis system does to protect against cancer. And then the DNA, by the way, needs to keep on fixing itself so you don't wind up, even after successful treatment, having that cancer come back. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's this dynamic system. Everything I talked about, by the way, is invisible, happening to every kid, every teenager, every young adult, every healthy adult. I don't care how many times you go to the gym, this same system is working to defend us from the inside out.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  That's why health is really a remarkable gift, but it's complicated and it's dynamic and it's happening inside us. And that's why if you treat the body as a temple, you would realize there's a lot of breakable things inside it, so we want to be careful about what we do. It's okay to, you know, wander off the reservation every now and then. We got good resilience, but if you damage your body repeatedly over time, that's when our defenses go down. And think about it like our shields go down. When our shields go down, that's when the enemy missiles can come right in.

• 43:54André Duqum?

  How many people on average right now are either getting diagnosed with cancer or dying from cancer?

• 44:01Speaker 01

  You know, that number is actually increasing. Well, actually, let me just tell you, the people diagnosed with cancer is slightly increasing, skewed towards younger age. So there's something going on right now in society that we don't understand. Why diseases like colon cancer, which we, when I was in medical school, colon cancer was a disease of people in their 70s, like older people, much older people. Now we're seeing people in their 40s, 30s. There's even reports of teenagers, like 16-year-olds, getting colon cancer. We don't understand why that dynamic has changed, but something is happening, either externally, exposing our body,

• 44:44Speaker 01

  or altering our health defenses so that younger people are becoming more vulnerable. That said, we are also seeing people who are taking care of themselves actually plateau the rise of some forms of cancer as well. And then the third axis that you need to really think about, the third dimension of this, is really that cancer treatment breakthroughs are happening at a faster pace than ever before. And I will tell you, as a card-carrying medical doctor, I never thought I would, in my career, see treatments that could take stage four cancer to stage zero cancer. Can't do it for everybody yet, we don't understand how it is, but it's happening.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  And I personally know well over a dozen people who have gone, including my own mother, by the way, who is well-known, you know, I've told this story before, you know, had stage four cancer. That's a game over, you know, she was 80. And it's kind of like, there's nothing more we can do for her. The treatment's worse than the disease at a certain point. And I said, no, no, she's got health defenses. Let's raise her shields. And for my own mother, we were able to give her immunotherapy. Jack up that critical defense system along with diet and medications and some other things and we worked under gut. And guess what?

• 46:11Speaker 01

  Her own 80 year old body was able to rear up its own shields powerfully enough to be able to wipe out stage four cancer. So this is actually the transformation that's happening. I told you, we're going away from killing the cancer to healing the person. And that's actually a remarkable thing. It's, by the way, it's also not just drugs doing it. It's also attitude. You know, studies have now been shown that you want to be more chill and zen. You want to work on your, your mindset. You want to be, you want to be more optimistic.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  You want to be more hopeful, but you also want to be less stressed, less anxious. And that's not just brain chemistry. That is really the whole body working together with our minds to be able to actually get us to that healing state.

• 47:10André Duqum?

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• 47:52André Duqum?

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• 48:27André Duqum?

  So you've, of course, dealt with this in your own personal family life. Is it true that about one in two men, one in three women, will get diagnosed with cancer?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the statistics are pretty sobering if you take a look at it. So, one in two men, one in three women. Think about getting in an elevator with 10 people and you can start doing the counting, like, which one are you gonna be? And I think that, you know, the truth is that we all have the ability to resist cancer, as we've been talking about. And rather than get overwhelmed and freaked out by the statistics of who's gonna get cancer, I wanna kind of maybe give a different perspective. If I tell you, we all get cancer all the time, from the time we're kids, but we can remain cancer-free, meaning disease-free, from something like cancer,

• 49:23Speaker 01

  and we can tip the odds in our own favor by boosting, supporting, amplifying our health defenses, which can be done with diet and lifestyle and mental attitude and how we choose to navigate our life. Then it turns from a situation of a dire predicament to a situation of enormous opportunity.

• 49:54André Duqum?

  And I love that you speak to both because there is, I mean, understandably so, a lot of fear in the health space because of the time that we live, right? The cancer rates that are rising, younger and younger ages that are getting cancer. Before we go into the things that will continue to propagate a healthful system, we do live in a time where there's, we are more exposed to toxic things in our environment more than ever. And when you look at the environment that most of us are living in, what do you see as the most predominant causes of building up toxicity in the system, which hand in hand has a way to undermine our immune system?

• 50:39Speaker 01

  It's a great question. I mean, I, what I think what you're asking is, how do we keep score on what we're exposed to in today's world? And it's a big challenge, I have to say, you know.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  There's a lot of things, but I want to start by helping people to understand the reason that we have these health defenses, really, is because just existing on planet Earth, no matter how pristine our planet was, is exposing us to toxins. We've got damaging exposures, ultraviolet radiation coming in on a bright sunny day. You know, that beautiful day, we will go outside, there's not a rain cloud in sight, amazing day, great temperature, ultraviolet radiation coming to damage us. That's a harmful exposure. Or, a lot of people don't think about this, but, you know, there's many places, you go down to the ground floor or the basement, and you've got radon, which is radiation

• 51:39Speaker 01

  coming from the center of the Earth, raiding up and exposing the bottoms of our feet and our bones to radiation, which is also harmful exposure. Now, we're going to add what human society has done: industrialization, chemical pollutants, pesticides in our foods, microplastics that are being shed in the environment everywhere. By the way, you know, besides being in our food, do you know where most of the microplastics that are in our body come from?

• 52:15André Duqum?

  Through water?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Nope, close. Take another guess.

• 52:19André Duqum?

  Through the air?

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Correct. And you know how it gets in the air? Where's plastic in the air? Like, we don't see a big cloud of plastic usually in the air.

• 52:30André Duqum?

  Probably reheating packaged foods?

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Actually, it comes from car tires.

• 52:36André Duqum?

  Car tires?

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, so when car tires are driving on the highway, all right, you don't have to have a blowout, just driving on the highway, spinning that friction, actually throws off millions of microplastic particles. Now, think about if you live near a big highway, okay, or even a bus route, those big tires grinding and throwing stuff in the air. "Ah, I'm gonna go out and get some fresh air." Well, you know, now I'm starting to understand that, wow, microplastics are everywhere. And rather than freak out and say, "I'm gonna wear, you know, a spacesuit, I don't want to be exposed to the sun, or the ground, or, you know, the air," what I would say is, you know what?

• 53:22Speaker 01

  If you are so stressed out about everything, you're actually gonna damage your health defenses more than anything else. Try to take a chill pill. As difficult as it may be to suspend your disbelief that your body's got what it takes to help us stay healthy. And so regardless of what the environment's going on the outside, sure. I'm a big believer in activism and being mindful of what we're throwing out into the planet. Yeah, we should be more careful. However, I think that the one empowering thing that we can do, we all have the agency to be able to keep our own health defenses strong. And this is really where diet and lifestyle,

• 54:06Speaker 01

  and sometimes supplements, can actually help us achieve that goal. It's topping us off where we think it would put us in a better position to stay healthy.

• 54:16André Duqum?

  How much plastic is this getting in our body?

• 54:20Speaker 01

  We don't really know. I know that it's been published and it's kind of become an urban legend that we eat a credit card's worth of plastic every week. I don't think that's true. I think that was a mathematical calculation that happened to exaggerate the amount of plastic. But I will tell you that there have been real human studies done at autopsy, looking at brains, human brains, that you can put on a scale and weigh at autopsy. And the brains with more plastic actually tip the scale. You can actually measure the ones that have more plastic. And it gets more concerning than that. We have found in people with blockages

• 55:03Speaker 01

  in their neck arteries that could lead to a stroke, that the people who have the bigger, thicker blockages wind up actually having more plastic studying their blood vessels. I study blood vessels, so I know a lot about this. And what's kind of crazy is that over time, they've now associated those people with the most microplastic studying their blood vessels. Actually have a three to four fold higher risk of having a stroke fatal stroke. All right. So, you know, this is not harmless and nobody wants plastic in their body.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  We found it in breast milk. We have found it in um uh liver tissue. We found it in the penis. So urologists doing surgery on the penis have um had to do, you know, remove tissue, send it to the lab. And what they found is there's actually pieces of plastic studying the penis.

• 56:08André Duqum?

  So these are like micro.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Micro.

• 56:10André Duqum?

  Micro sized.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  So less than five, less than five millimeters or even smaller nanoparticles of plastic. They're everywhere.

• 56:20André Duqum?

  What are you seeing as the effect it has on fertility? Because I know that's been plummeting for years.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Great question. We don't know that, you know. Listen, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a scientist. And one of the, I think, calling cards of scientists is that when we don't know something, we just say we don't know. And that's what I'm telling you. I think this issue of fertility is interesting because fertility requires so many things to go right. It's actually remarkable that we can actually produce more people on a regular basis. But yeah, there, there's definitely been falling fertility. Is it one thing? I don't think you could nail it to microplastics. Um, might contribute. I mean, you know, uh, and because microplastics are connected to industry.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  And then you have, you know, vested interests by corporations and then it suddenly becomes politicized. Here's what I would say. Look, um,

• 57:18Speaker 01

  whether we like it or not, we live in a time where. We benefit from industry. We're now also paying the price for what industry has done to the environment. We gotta control that. We gotta do better. But on an individual level, how can we not freak out? Well, I think we can take care of this remarkable system of defenses that we have been blessed with, that we're imbued with. And by making more intentional choices and just being more aware. You know, if you think about, without getting too metaphysical,

• 58:00Speaker 01

  you know, if you want to be enlightened and have self-knowledge and self-awareness, one of the most powerful things you can do for your own health is to realize what we have inside us is this very active, dynamic system of repair and maintenance and protection. And that what we're, how we actually navigate throughout our lives, the choices we make can influence whether or not our systems, our own body can do that job. Nobody asks to live forever. So I know that there's this big trend towards longevity. It's, that's not a new thing. By the way, the quest for immortality goes back thousands of years.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  You know, the first emperor of China sent out his best people to go find little ampules of elixir to be able to become immortal. Did that pan out? Not really. You know, we, it's true, we have a lot of science now. And what I would say is that if you want to live long and if you want to prosper, if you want to thrive while you're living long, and people call that health span, well, we're back to the beginning of this conversation. What is health? Right? So we can have dodged the things that we That'll take us down, then we'll live longer and we'll live better. And if we're not stressed out all the time, then we'll maybe get a chance to enjoy our life.

• 59:23Speaker 02

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• 1:00:06André Duqum?

  Yeah, I love the way that you keep bringing it back into an empowering message for people about the power the body has and the intelligence of our body to heal itself, that it wants to be in a healthful state. And there's a lot of great advice you have in that regard, how we can foster the cultivation of those systems that we talked about earlier. If you had to just give a few things that you think are most important before we do so, to protect what is coming in within our home, within plastic exposure, things that you think help consistently in your understanding and your practice undermine the systems from doing their job effectively, what would be some things that people can have boundaries for in their life?

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's great. Let's just kind of tackle some practical things, right? Because I think I'm somebody who, you know, I spend every single day with my head buried in really, really deep science. But at the end of the day, people just want to know what to do and what they can do that's pretty simple. So I want to try to touch on the areas that we've talked about already. So if you want to actually lower your burden of environmental exposures, something very simple you can do is to get an air filter for your house, your home. Something with a HEPA filter will actually capture most of the nasties that are in the

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  air. And then also, here's an interesting thing that people don't think about, is airing out your house every now and then. Open your windows, open your doors, let some clean air blow that out. You know that radon that comes out through the ground? You open your windows and doors, it'll blow it out. It'll actually diffuse it, disperse it. And so that kind of circulation and cleaning up the air is something really fundamental you can do. Another thing from an environmental exposure perspective, and then I want to talk in a moment about diet and lifestyle, but is that you get a water filter. Okay. You know, this history that we have of industrialization,

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  of just burying toxins and unleashing them into the air, into the ground, or having a spill for that matter. You know, that defense, that shield, the gate, the guard you could put at the gate to the water coming in your house is a water filter to take on as many of the nasties as you can. So that way, the water you're drinking, you're cooking with, you're showering with, you're brushing your teeth with, basically, you're actually lowering the harmful exposure there. So the air, the water, the pretty fundamental things, we need both of those to live. And then what about food?

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Our diet actually has been shown to either support and boost or attack and dismantle our health defenses. Now, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know you want to actually raise your shields, not destroy them, right? So, I mean, think about it, like, all the things we do to protect ourselves in our home, we lock the doors when we go out, we turn off the stove, the stove top when we go out, we lock the windows at night, we close the windows at night, you know, basic things. So what are some of the foods that we can avoid to protect ourselves from exposures? Avoid ultra-processed foods as much as possible.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  It's kind of impossible to avoid all of them. And, you know, honestly, we all enjoy some ultra-processed foods. We grew up with that stuff, right? And it's okay, because our body's pretty resilient. But I would say, like, get off all the snacks, all those crazy, colorful, prepackaged, in-plastic things. If it comes in a bag, in a box, in a can, you know, and if it's ultra-plastic. And, by the way, I always tell people, this is a super, super simple thing. I've made a bunch of videos on it. If you come to my YouTube channel or my Instagram site, you'll see me showing people how I do this. Whatever you're gonna buy, you know, you're wheeling your cart in the grocery store,

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  whatever you're gonna buy, pick it up, take two seconds, that's all it takes, to look in the ingredient label, okay, if it's not in the produce section, and the fresh section, and look, and just get a, take a gander at how many ingredients there are. If there are like more than 20 ingredients and you can't pronounce them and you don't know what they're there for, that's an ultra-processed food. If you can find one that's simpler, that's a substitute for that, that doesn't have as many chemicals, that you can identify what they're there for, I would do that instead. That's a simple way to just cut down your ultra-processed foods. And then go for the fresh foods, you know. Anybody who's any spent time in Europe will know that Europeans go to the market twice a week,

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  and they buy just what they need, and it's coming fresh and local and amazing quality food. And I know, like, we live in America anyway, in the United States, a convenience culture. You know, you want cheap, you want fast, you don't wanna be bothered by it. But you know what? Maybe taking a more intentionality to our lives in terms of our food, buy more fruits and vegetables, nuts and legumes, fresh, healthy foods, actually will pay off, that, you know, like, health is not a convenience. Health is a birthright, right? Like, we're born with a healthy system. You wanna stay healthy your whole life, like, take the time to appreciate the food, be intentional about the food. And by the way, something that I noticed,

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  I did a gap year before I went to medical school, and I spent that gap year in Italy and Greece. And so, I was, by the way, shopping with the nonnas and the yayas in the local markets, and I was cooking with them and learning, eating with families together and seeing how people lived. And I noticed something right away that was very different between the eating patterns of traditional Mediterranean lifestyle versus American lifestyle, which is where I grew up. You know, in America, I remember thinking,

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  when you have lunch, you might eat by yourself, you might read something while you're eating, kind of distracted, you're gonna bolt your food down and go back to work, right? And, and, and by the way, if you're dining with somebody in the United States, usually you're talking about the problems you have at work, or how to solve something. You're not talking about life itself. In Europe, when it's mealtime, people stop whatever they're doing. And if you're dining with somebody, and they order fresh local food that's coming, being delivered, and is freshly cooked, you know, people immediately stop talking about their problems and their work. And they start talking about the food. "Oh, my mom makes it this way." "Oh, when I make it this way, that's the great part about this season."

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  And then you take the time to appreciate what Mother Nature, the bounty of Mother Nature, and the care that we as humans are able to put through our humanity when it comes to our food. And so, okay, I can give you a laundry list of healthy foods, and I can give you some healthy recipes, but I want to emphasize that, you know, old traditional cultures have figured this out. And that is to take your time, to be intentional, to appreciate your food, cook as fresh with, healthy, with good, good quality ingredients, and don't eat too much, and you'll probably be just fine. That's really important about the foods, mostly fruits and vegetables. You know, the stuff we talk about, nuts and legumes, healthy oils,

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  trying to cut down on your meat. By the way, this is a whole other thing that, you know, I talk to my colleagues about. When it comes to nutrition and health, people tend to be black and white. "This is good," and then "this is evil," and then they swap. "Oh, no, no, no, this is good, and this is evil now," you know? It's, it's, life isn't that... Simple. And, you know, the details matter. And the context matters, and the individual matters. And so I think that, you know, a little bit of meat, not bad. You get good quality meat. Don't make it your main thing. I always say, you know, like if you're at a restaurant, don't. I actually look at the vegetables first to order. I don't think about the entree and then the sides. I think about the sides first and then think about what I,

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  what was on the other part of the menu. And I think that you can know it's possible to navigate. Like I make a, I try when I'm making videos for the public. Like this is kind of like my mission in life is to get practical information out to people that they can relate to and they can do something with. If I'm at a restaurant and what do I order on the menu? I try to pick, I try to have the healthy choices. And I try to pick for things that are healthy and tasty. Got to taste good. And so I think that's really where we need to reconcile. Like, what do we enjoy eating that is also healthy? And then we've kind of lined it up perfectly to be able to live the rest of our lives that way.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  And then I think that the other parts of protecting our health defenses really have to do with the things that we don't spend enough time thinking about. Sleeping, seven, eight hours, the magic number, no matter how you cut it. All right. And you want good, deep sleep. And because during sleep, even though we're not physically active. So, you know, when I was growing up, if somebody saw somebody sleeping, yeah, look at how lazy they are. Okay, lazy bum. Actually, even though our body's physically not appearing to move, not being very active, in fact, when we're sleeping, especially deep sleep,

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  our body is cleansing itself, regenerating itself, renewing itself, rebooting, resetting our immune system. It's like, you know, the computer or the laptop that you're putting through like a virus scan. You're cleaning off all the junk that's accumulated. That's what's happening when we get good, deep sleep. And everybody knows that this. Cleansing purification happens, especially in our brain. By the way, you know, we have a, we've discovered a whole new system, a sewer system in our brain, called the glymphatic system, that drains all the toxins that accumulated during the day time. Our brains are churning on overdrive every day, okay? And so by the end of the day, you need to sleep and drain all those toxins out.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  That's the true detox. Like, we don't need to pay, go to a clinic to detox. We can do it ourselves just by getting good sleep. And that glymphatic system opens up the grates, like the sewers of Paris, and drains out all those accumulated toxins. And if you don't get good sleep, you're not draining out all those toxins, which is why, when you're jet lagged, when you pull an all-nighter, okay? Uh, you know, like when we, like when we did Winter All Younger, you know, you feel kind of groggy and crappy the next day. You can't think that straight. Those toxins are still in there. And so some of these exposures, toxic exposures, are just generated as a byproduct of our own lives itself. And so, again, these mindful decisions of good sleep, exercise is very important.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  Movement, physical movement's very important, and de-stressing. Anything that you can do to lower your own stress. You don't need to go on a retreat all the time, but find little tiny pockets of your day where you can go into a quiet place and just, you know, some people call it zoning out, I'd call it zoning in, like getting back in touch with who you are inside. That's actually the best way to actually optimize your health defenses.

• 1:12:03André Duqum?

  Yeah, I think the information around the glymphatic system is really interesting. It's just yet another reminder about the, the system that our body has, has set up for millennia to, uh...

• 1:12:18André Duqum?

  To remove waste and to remove the things, the toxic buildup and to promote health. And one other thing that I've heard you speak to, which we've covered on the show, which is incredibly important, is that we live in a society that is chronically overeating and not giving the body the proper fasting window it needs. Why is overeating, what is happening within the body that makes it so bad?

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  So, what is food? What are we doing when we're eating? We're putting fuel into our bodies. Just like if you have a car, like if you have a gas car or if you're an electric car, you're plugging it in and getting the power into your car, your battery, or you're putting fuel, gasoline or petrol, depending on where you are around the world, what you call it, into the gas tank of your car. That's putting fuel into your vehicle. Well, our body is a vehicle. When we're eating food, we're putting fuel into our body. Now, if you're putting gasoline in, what do you call it? You call it gallons of fuel or liters, depending on where you are. When you put food into our system, we don't call it gallons, we call it calories.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  It's just another name for the fuel, okay? The quantity of fuel. So, we're loading the calories in. Now, I like to use this example of filling up the car with gas, gasoline, because this is actually the same concept in the body. First of all, the car uses gasoline to be able to run, right? So, most of us don't think about the fuel tank, the gas, until we look at the gauge. It's running low. All of a sudden, we can't stop but think about, I gotta find a gas station someplace. Where am I gonna find it? You're obsessed with finding a gas station so you can put more fuel in the tank. Same deal happens in our body. We are hardwired with this invisible fuel tank.

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  You don't normally think about it until the tank is reading really low, low fuel, right? That's when you get hungry. I gotta find some food. Can we pull over and get something to eat now? I gotta stop and get something to eat. Same, exact same idea of what's happening in a car when you need to get gas. When you get gas in a gas station, you're putting, you've got a, you put the nozzle into the, into the, into the fuel tank. Fuel tank is made out of metal. And it only contains so many gallons and you're putting in, you're squeezing the trigger and it's going in, it's going in, it's going in. Fortunately for a car, when the fuel tank is loaded, it goes click and no more gas

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  comes out, right? Now, our body doesn't have that clicker and our body is not metal. It stretches, it's very pliable, so we can actually eat a lot. So what is the fuel tank of our body? Now, in a car, it's at that gas tank. In the body, it is our fat cells. Our fat cells store fuel. Do you know that a fat cell, can you guess how many times a fat cell can expand with fuel? More you eat, more expands, more you eat, it'll expand even bigger? So if you take a regular one, how many times do you think it actually can? The size of the balloon that it can make? Just take a wild guess.

• 1:15:38André Duqum?

  Forty-seven.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  Okay. It's three times. So every fat cell in your body, which is like a rubbery, like a balloon fuel tank, can expand 300% of its size. All right? So that means that the more you eat, the more it gets bigger, which is why people who overeat tend to expand their waistline, build extra harmful body fat, because this fat that expands is inflammatory. It causes inflammation in your body. That inflammation derails your health defenses, which is why we always say, got to lower inflammation, eat anti-inflammatory fluids, stay away from that.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  But really, one of the actions that we take that can lead to that state of inflammation and too much body fat is overeating, too many calories consumed, right? In the past, we had that conversation through the lens of vanity.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  I gotta get reefer this summer. I gotta get my beach body, you know, gotta look good in a bathing suit. And that's the reason to actually kind of slim down. But in point of fact, what you wanna do is you wanna keep your body in good shape all the time by not expanding the fuel tank. Now, let me tell you what happens in a car when you, let's say that clicker for the gas doesn't work and the gas tank fills up. Now it's full, nothing to stop it from putting more gas into the car, into the tank. What's gonna happen? The fuel's gonna pop right on the tank, run down the side of the car, run down the tires, pool around your feet, alright?

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  And now you're standing in the middle of a dangerous, flammable, toxic mess. We're talking about toxicities. Our body doesn't have a clicker. So when we overeat, the same idea. We wind up overloading our bodies and we're now standing, we're now filled with this dangerous, flammable, toxic mess, alright? And that's really one of the reasons, from a metabolic perspective, we don't want to overeat anytime. Now, how do we know that this screws us up? Anybody who's been, had a Thanksgiving, you know what it's like. You know, you don't eat in the morning and all the food's being prepared and you can't wait to get to your aunt's house or your parents' house or whatever.

• 1:18:06Speaker 01

  You know that incredible spread that's gonna be there that you're looking forward to and then all the guests arrive and you get there, you get a plate and you load up that plate, okay? The first serving is gonna already be way too much that you can eat. But then you're eating it, you're eating it quickly, you're eating it, by the way, you're putting in fuel faster than your fuel gauge in your body can measure it, alright? So you're really already overloading your tank. And then you're distracted because you're talking to people and that food just keeps on looking so good, everybody's kind of overeating, right? So I'm sure anybody watching or listening has been through this experience. What do you do when you're done with your plate? You're gonna go back for seconds. I'm gonna have some more. Okay, let's go. Alright, so then you put it in, I'm just telling you, because this has happened to

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  me so many times when I was younger, you take that one first forkful of your seconds and you swallow that and you know, oh man, I crossed that line. I'm gonna feel like crap now. And yet you keep on going and you're just overflowing that gas tank. Okay, and you've overwhelmed your metabolism. It's just like overflowing your car. Now, I can get into the biochemistry of what's happening. But this analogy, I think, makes the point that you want to keep your car in good shape so that the fuel it's running on is efficient. You don't want to overload it. And that's the same way with our bodies' metabolism. It is taking in food as fuel, running very efficiently. All right, but if you overload it, you're gonna derail all those processes. It's gonna be inflammatory.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  You're gonna derail the health defenses. Do it once, like at a holiday, you'll bounce back. It might take you a couple of days, right? How many days? I mean, think about like how many days it takes for me to recover from a holiday where I overindulge in something, whether it's food or whatever. Takes a few days, all right? Then you get back to normal. Shouldn't be doing that. But if you do that all the time, which is what we're talking about, chronic overeating, not only are you gonna stretch out your fuel tanks, your fat cells, and become bigger and your, you know, your body mass index is gonna increase, your visceral fat's gonna increase, and all these things derail your health defenses. Which is why too much visceral fat is associated with 14 different types of cancer, with cardiovascular

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  disease, with metabolic diseases like metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes. It's associated with dementia. All the things that you don't want to actually have that take you further and further away from your healthy state, that your body is hardwired to actually protect. And it's not one time, it's that chronic chronicity. And so I think eating, the volume of eating, is a habit you should get into thinking about. And I want to talk a little about the history in a second because it's interesting. So what I always tell people, what's the practical thing? Listen, first of all, if you're cooking at home, you should try to cook at home. And it doesn't matter how much you cook. Don't serve yourself too much.

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  A great rule of thumb is never go back for seconds. Never go back for seconds. Appreciate the plate that you already have. And when you're filling that plate, fill up two thirds of what you would normally fill it up with. All right, so you're taking a little bit less. Moderation is the key to success. All right. And then don't go back for seconds. And that way, you will always be like in sort of a good zone. The Japanese borrowed a Confucian philosophy called a hara hachibun mi, which basically means eat until you're 80% full, which means eat till you're satisfied. It tastes really good, but don't eat until you're full.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  We are trained almost from the time we're kids, to eat until we're full. You don't look like you're full yet. You should eat some more. Like, that's what our grandmothers and our mothers told us to do. That's not what we want to do. You want to actually practice moderation and stop before you actually get into trouble. Leave the party before it's time, before it's over. Like, that's the kind of approach to get. Now, there's something really historically contextual about overeating. Because you know, through most of the history of mankind, we didn't have, we weren't surrounded by abundance of food. You know, forget about Neolithic man and, you know, cave dwellers and stuff like that.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  They definitely didn't have too much food. But if you take a look, even as early as the first half of the 20th century, the 1900s, you know, people were chronically under-calorized. They didn't have enough to eat. And then you add a couple of world wars. You know, we had food shortages. And by the way, do you know that the whole idea of the clean plate club, clean your plate? That's what, you know, I grew up, my teachers telling me when I was in grade school, you've got to be in a clean plate club. Clean your plate. Eat every little bit because there's people starving in, name your country. All right. And that... Idea of cleaning your plate came from World War I,

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  where there was actually a shortage of food to feed the troops. And so there was a national campaign put out to make sure, not stuff your plate and then clean it, but whatever you put on your plate, don't waste it. Don't throw it away. Make sure you eat everything that's on there, whatever you're taking, and don't take too much because we don't have enough. And it's only really after World War II, when like we, as a modern society, Western society especially in the US, ramped up everything. We had huge capacity. And then the economies actually started to flourish, actually in Europe and the United States. That's actually when we became surrounded by an abundance of food. We kind of supersized ourselves, but it's a relatively recent phenomenon.

• 1:24:01Speaker 01

  I would say less than 70 years old. Okay. And so in the timeline of history, we haven't been overeating for that long. And it's around that time, that 70 year time of cycle, that's when we started to see the rise of all these chronic diseases coming up as well. So we did it to ourselves. But now, because we know that, we can undo it to ourselves by practicing some of the more moderate principles. And I think this is really where, I'm a big believer in self-awareness, you know, self-knowledge. I think that if you can actually, first and foremost, be true to who you are and take the time to contemplate on like, what's in my body?

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  How do I, what do I enjoy? What's good for me? What's not so good for me? What do I want to avoid? How do I feel? Like you, I think getting in touch with how you feel when you eat is one of the easiest ways not to overeat and not to eat the wrong things. Because I would say most people eat junk food, a lot of junk food. You can't tell me they feel better afterwards. They get that dopamine hit while they're eating the junk. But afterwards, they feel like crap.

• 1:25:16André Duqum?

  Why do you like Bruce Lee so much?

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  Why do I like Bruce Lee?

• 1:25:19André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Okay. So.

• 1:25:23André Duqum?

  So I read this in the similar regard in a chapter of one of your books. And I believe it was around a similar topic.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, look.

• 1:25:33Speaker 01

  Okay. When I was a kid in the seventies,

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  I encountered a lot of racism. And Bruce Lee, on one hand, was this hero

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  from Asia that showed that, you know, an Asian could kick ass. And in a, in a way that we hadn't seen before. And in fact, he's actually now regarded as the father of mixed martial arts, because everybody actually continues to quote and crib from and really respect

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  what the legacy of Bruce Lee, the martial artist is. In fact, you know, California just created, I think, May 15th or something, is Bruce Lee Day. It's actually an official day in California, which is pretty remarkable for Asians. It's the first Asian American Day.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  But I found Bruce Lee to be more than

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  interesting, more interesting than just simply combat and self-defense. He was, he went to study philosophy when he was in college. And what's interesting is that he took a very philosophical approach to life itself and to self-defense, self-defense systems, which is what I study, and also to really sort of being in touch with oneself. So he basically really believed that self-knowledge, taking time to appreciate and understand yourself is the sort of quest that is the most important thing that you can actually do in terms of your own personal mission. And that if you want to achieve anything in life, you start with yourself and we don't take enough time to do that.

• 1:27:14Speaker 01

  The other thing I liked about Bruce Lee that I think is relevant in this day and age, where everybody's got a different diet and is it keto? Is it carnivore? Is it Atkins? Is it South Beach? Is it whatever? Is it fasting? Whatever you want to talk about, there's so many different approaches out there. Is he had this really great approach to developing his own style of martial arts. So you can understand how progressive that was

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  to.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  To go beyond tradition, these thousands of years of stylistic martial arts, karate, kempo, jiu-jitsu, aikido, kung fu. And those practitioners, by the way, they were black and white. Our way or the highway. If you were doing it my way, you were my enemy. Like, that's how rigid the traditional martial arts were then. Bruce Lee basically said, no, no, no. We're going to borrow a little bit from karate. We're going to borrow a little bit from judo. And then he was like, and then he went beyond that. He kind of like went, he leaped over cultural and even athletic silos, vertical silos and said, you know, let's borrow from fencing.

• 1:28:28Speaker 01

  Let's borrow from ballet. Let's borrow from Western boxing. And he would study this and he would integrate it together. So that his style of fighting was a combination of all styles, or no style, as he called it. And I actually think that that influenced how I approach my research, how I approach my thinking about health, which is that you don't need to listen to any one's style or any one doctrine. You got to follow what you know to be true yourself inside. You got to evolve. That's the thing about Bruce Lee. He was always evolving his thinking. So, you know, when you see something new that works, adopt it.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  And that was the other thing that he did that was, I think, really, that I admired, that means a lot to me to this day, which is that he said, you know, take what's useful, reject what's not useful, and stick with that in order to be able to live your best life. And that's exactly how I try to do it with my own life. That's exactly how I perceive, that's how I, that's how I kind of like do my research. And that's how I, that's how I think. I try to communicate the messages about health to people. It's not one way, my way or the highway.

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  Everyone's going to have their own unique combination of influences, styles, resonance, what works for them, their own body. And yeah, the biology is largely the same, but you've got to adapt to your situation and make it work for you. So that's really kind of where I come from. And it's a very honest, authentic, decades-long way of thinking, and I've been very consistent about it.

• 1:30:19André Duqum?

  I love all that. What was it like for you, I guess, being born and educated into a prevalent system that is a sick care system that treats health from the diagnose and cure lens with the pharmaceutical industry and how intertwined they are? And you've carved your own path to realizing the power the body has to heal itself, which is counterintuitive and I think in many regards against the grain from the traditional system. What are your thoughts on that?

• 1:30:53Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, first and foremost, you know, my training as a medical doctor, as a physician in internal medicine, you know, I went through a very rigorous, super-high-level, ultra-intense, I would say, traditional medical system. And I'm so thankful for that because modern medicine's amazing, man, like what we can actually do. You know, like I just told you, stage four cancer to stage zero, heart transplant, you know, even something as simple as fixing a broken hip, you know, that would otherwise take away somebody's independence and put them in a wheelchair. Those are really quite miraculous that we can actually do that.

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  And it's also miraculous that we trust each other, you know, a patient to a doctor and a doctor to their colleague, to be able to actually even allow that intervention to be happening. Pharmaceuticals, we didn't have pharmaceuticals, we wouldn't have antibiotics. You know, if we didn't have antibiotics, well, we'd be back to the 18th century, 17th century. All right, most of us would be dead. You know, most people didn't live beyond 40 years old or so, until just about 100 years ago. Then we have this huge soaring improvement in lifespan. So I always tell people who don't like pharmaceutical, who like totally dismiss the benefits of pharmaceuticals, but they still want longevity.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  I'm like, dude, you wouldn't have lived beyond 40 without the help of modern medicine. So number one, I think I deeply respect the gift of science and what that's given us. Understanding the human body, we're still understanding more things. And the tools that modern medicine, including pharmaceuticals and medical devices, have given us. You know, it's really quite remarkable, like astounding that we could actually do that. And it takes money, it takes investors, it takes industry to scale it. So we can give it to as many people as possible. That said, I do think that we lost our way because you know that pharmaceuticals have been only around for less than 100 years.

• 1:33:06Speaker 01

  All right, you know, antibiotics came out in the 1930s and 40s. Before that, we had no drugs. And before we had, we didn't have drugs, but before we had any drugs, all we had was diet and lifestyle. And somehow, with this revolution of pharmaceuticals, we lost the other tools in a toolbox. We lost diet and the lifestyle. We lost, you know, a belief in, you know, integrated systems and healing. We just all kind of like all fixated on what the guidelines and pathways and how to use products are. And I think that You know, capitalism, the capitalism actually drove that to a large extent.

• 1:33:51Speaker 01

  But without entrepreneurship and capitalism, we wouldn't have the discoveries that we actually have. So it's a, it's a, it's a balance that we have to, we have to accommodate. But what I love about where we are in society today is we're going back to the old ways. We're realizing a diet and lifestyle is important. You know, thinking, talking about cross cultures. Have you heard that we've discovered a new organ in the body recently called the interstitium? Anybody who's listening, if you want to go back to the, there's a really great article

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  in a New York Times, just look up interstitium, I N T E R S T I T I U, I'm interstitium. I was taught about the interstitium when I was in medical school because when we were in anatomy class dissecting bodies and learning about anatomy, you know, open up the belly and you take out the liver and the intestines and blah, blah, blah. We were saying, oh, you know, that all that area, empty space between organs, those dried, dried up organs, like, that's called the interstitium, but never mind, we don't care about the interstitium. Turns out, the interstitium in the living person, not the corpse, the living person

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  is the fluid that interconnects all the spaces between our organs, all the negative space. That fluid in the living, dynamic person is filled with communicators, exosomes, little microcommunication channels that one organ communicates to the other organ, and that itself is an organ, the interstitium. And the reason I'm bringing that up is because, you know, we now have rediscovered, and this is what's in this New York Times article, I would encourage people to look up, is that the interstitium that connects one thing to the other thing through these channels. Actually seems to correlate with the acupuncture meridians that have been known

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  for thousands of years in Asia. So you bet you put a needle here in your ear, it actually stimulates something else. We're now beginning to think it's the interstition that helps to communicate those signals. So we're bringing some scientific, we're landing, sticking the landing with some of this, what some doctors used to call woo-woo. We're now bringing, we're, our worlds are colliding. And I think that's what's wonderful is we're beginning to put the tools back in the toolbox. So we have more than pharmaceuticals. In fact, you know, when I was in med school, they're like, well, if you go to supplements and diet and lifestyle, like you're practicing alternative medicine. Those people are weirdos or wackos.

• 1:36:40Speaker 01

  I will tell you that where we're going now, if you in the future, if you are a doctor that only practices pharmaceutical medicine and you don't integrate diet and lifestyle, the people who are only using pharmaceuticals, they're going to be called the alternative medicine practitioners. They're not doing mainstream medicine. Mainstream medicine is going to be so characterized by totality. And I think that that's the good news of how we're evolving.

• 1:37:09André Duqum?

  What do you think, what do you think we're going to see in our lifetime in terms of the innovations and understanding remedies, treatments for cancer and especially as AI? Some people think we will have a longevity escape velocity and potentially be able to outpace degeneration in our body. What do you think are some realities in terms of what we'll be able to see happen?

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. What you're asking about is sort of like the, the discussion topic of panels of biohackers that get together and they, you know, they're futurists that predict what's going to happen in terms of healthcare, lifespan, technology. I will tell you that in my own career, I've already seen things like the glass ceiling broken time and time and again.

• 1:37:59André Duqum?

  What are a couple of those?

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  Well, we used to have wounds that wouldn't heal, especially in diabetes because their blood vessels aren't really good. And in 1997,

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  The first successful treatment was a gel like in a tube of toothpaste that made with recombinant DNA for a growth factor, a peptide that you would put onto the wound. You squeeze it on, take a, wipe it off, and bam. This growth factor would stimulate new blood vessels to heal a wound from the surface, and it was zip shut. Never thought we could do that. Prevents amputations. Blindness causes a blindness from aging, age-related macular degeneration. When you hear grandma's going blind because she's old, no such thing.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  Over the age of 70, the most common cause of vision loss is something called age-related macular degeneration. So people who want to live long, you want to be whatever, add the number of zeros you want after your age. If you can't see, you will lose your independence. So you want your age, you want the macular degeneration to not happen. And in my career, we've actually went from that was a condition you could not treat, incurable, untreatable, to suddenly we can actually give medicines to the back of the eye that would actually stop macular degeneration, the bleeding and leaking that would actually happen. And you can actually take somebody who, I've had a patient who was legally blind from

• 1:39:43Speaker 01

  macular degeneration. She was in her, the late 70s, had like lost her license. And the thing that she really regretted the most, she was a avid golfer, like golf was her passion. In her retirement, that's what gave her pleasure. And when she couldn't hit the ball, because she couldn't see clearly enough, that was her biggest bummer. She couldn't drive to the golf course, and then she couldn't hit the ball. And she got onto this treatment right at this turning point. It was 2000 and Six-ish and got the medicine into her eye, dried up her eye from all the problem leaking blood vessels from macular degeneration, called the wet form of because wet because it's leaking. And guess what? She could get behind the wheel of a car again.

• 1:40:28Speaker 01

  She could drive from legally blind, can't drive to be able to drive again, and she could hit her golf ball again. So, you know, who would have thought that you could actually treat, prevent blindness? Amazing. Cancer immunotherapy, stage four to stage zero. I never thought you'd be able to see the end stage of cancer, where we would have naturally thought about hospice, morphine drip, end of life care. No way, man. Today, if you're in that situation, your oncologist has a lot of tools to tap into. A whole new gateway has opened up. And if your doctor says there's nothing else we can do for you,

• 1:41:10Speaker 01

  you might want to have another oncologist because there's so much we can do now. And guess what it does? The immunotherapy ramps up your health defense system, that immune system, those super soldiers, they turn into ultra super soldiers and they can seek out and destroy cancer. And by the way, some of these treatments are just infusions every three weeks. Or there's a new treatment called CAR-T, C-A-R-T, capital T, CAR-T cell. That's basically where you, if you had cancer, you take out some of your T cells. These are those specialized super soldier cells, immune cells. You send them away to a factory, all right? Literally, you FedEx them off.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  And in the factory, they genetically engineer the super soldiers. So they turn them into literally super soldiers, like real super soldiers. And then you get a bag of them back, sent back to you and you get an infusion, 25 minutes. Don't feel anything, can sit there, read a magazine in the clinic, alright? And your super soldiers are back in your body, okay? Your body will undergo this huge immune surge, okay? They call it a cytokine storm because it is your immune system is now being like super woken up, alright? And guess what? When that works, you can literally dry erase out all the cancer from your body.

• 1:42:35Speaker 01

  And it stays that way for a decade or more with one bag, one infusion of your own cells that have been actually amplified. This is, I mean, this is today, so you're asking me about the future? I don't even know what the future is gonna bring because I, the things that are happening today have been so dazzling, so jaw dropping, so eye popping, that, you know, what I say is that, don't look at 20 years from now, why don't you just look 20 months from now? Because we're in this revolution. I mean, there's a lot, you know, there's a lot of distractions happening in society now. People generally feel that, you know, we don't live in great times, there's a lot of stress, there's a lot of war, you know, a lot of turmoil.

• 1:43:19Speaker 01

  I would say from where like my, from the cockpit of the plane that I fly and what I'm seeing out the windows, it is so amazing what's actually happening that we should look forward to the future. Will we have longer lives? Absolutely. Will we have longer health spans? Absolutely. Will we actually be able to have better foods and medicines and wearables and biometrics and different techniques to improve our health defenses? That too, absolutely, because they're already here, where are we starting them? So we're, you know, the, the, the future is already here, it's just not yet evenly distributed.

• 1:44:06André Duqum?

  I think that reminder is super needed and welcome because it can get quite depressing when you look, you know, online, the news and social media. But there is so many burgeoning new fields of study and cutting-edge technologies and therapies that give people a newfound sense of hope and that, yeah, that are really empowering.

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  You know, my mentor, Judith Fulkman, once, he was filled with great wisdom that he imparted to all of his students. And one of the things he used to always say to us when we were rounding on patients afterwards, you know, like really sick kids, he was a pediatric surgeon, he would always tell us, never destroy hope. Never give false hope, but never destroy hope because science is blazing the trail forward. And I think that's so true in terms of what I'm seeing. And so I'm excited about the future. I'm very positive about the future when it comes to health.

• 1:45:12Speaker 01

  And what I think is really different from the way that I was educated and trained is that a lot of the future is in our hands. It comes from understanding who we are. And we're not giving up our agency to some overinflated healthcare system that, you know, is just trying to make money, you know, in a capitalist environment. But in fact, we have the agency to be able to do things for ourselves.

• 1:45:43Speaker 02

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• 1:46:29André Duqum?

  Could I ask you a couple of questions about your favorite personal? Because we covered extensively, I think, the lay of the land in terms of the environmental toxins, the ability the body has to heal itself. And I would just like, before we start to head to wrapping up, like, your favorite foods, as you understand them as proper medicine, to propagate these health systems in the body from doing what they do. What are your personal favorite foods?

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  Ah, well, okay. So first of all, I have to confess to anybody listening and to you, is that I am not one of these rigid diet followers. People always ask me, "Dr. Lee, what's your diet?" Or people will, if I'm dining with, like, if people go out to dinner with me, they're always looking over my menu and saying, "What are you gonna order?" Because I'll have whatever he's having, you know, in that Harry Met Sally sort of way.

• 1:47:38Speaker 01

  And I, I always try to tell people, number one, I appreciate really delicious food, especially the food that comes from traditional cultures, regardless where they are. I'm, I'm a food explorer. I love great tasting food. And because I know I don't want to eat too much of anything, I'm open-minded to exploring almost anything. I also know what I shouldn't be eating too much of, I know what I should be eating more of. So within that realm, I always say, I don't follow a diet, I follow, I follow a pattern. If I had to characterize my pattern, and I'm gonna give you the individual, some individual

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  foods in a second, I always say, you know, I, I eat Mediterranean-style for health. I love Mediterranean food, I love Asian food. You know, Mediterranean is sort of like dealer's choice. You go into a restaurant, you go to your own kitchen, you know, you go to the supermarket. What What could I make or what could I order? What could I have that actually is within those genres? And they tend to be really healthy, those ingredients and the way that they execute the food. So what are some of, I don't know, I'll just riff on some of my favorite foods. Well, first of all, I love green tea. When you asked me if I wanted tea, I immediately said green tea, right? And that's because I know green tea is loaded with polyphenols.

• 1:49:04Speaker 01

  That lower inflammation, they improve my blood pressure, they relax my mind. They are heart healthy. It starves cancer by cutting off the blood supply. What's not, what's not to love about this cup? And plus, I love the taste, you know? And if you want the really full test of all the polyphenols, don't just have green tea. Have matcha, because matcha is the entire tea leaf ground together. And so you spare no good stuff. Another beverage that I really enjoy is coffee. I picked up the coffee habit when I did my gap year. I told you I was in Italy in Greece. I spent, you know, I don't know, I was in Italy for maybe two or three weeks when I got started.

• 1:49:48Speaker 01

  And immediately, my host family hooked me onto morning espresso and, you know, and I've always drank a lot of coffee. Turns out, coffee is loaded with polyphenols like chlorogenic acid. As long as you don't put, you know, the pumpkin, artificial pumpkin flavor and extra added sugar to it. Like, I like my coffee jet black. And, you know, people say it's a diuretic, it helps you lose, makes you lose water. No, if you drink less than 10 cups, you'll be just fine, water wise. Because it is, it's got water in it by itself.

• 1:50:21André Duqum?

  Less than 10 cups?

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  Less than 10 cups.

• 1:50:23André Duqum?

  10.

• 1:50:24Speaker 01

  10.

• 1:50:24André Duqum?

  That's a lot.

• 1:50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So you're safe, right? And also the caffeine, it is true, some people are very sensitive to caffeine in coffee and tea. But some, most people are not that sensitive. And for me, I'm, you're asking me personally, I'm not that sensitive to the caffeine. I'm, I'm, I'm good with it. And, and coffee has been shown to slow down cellular aging.

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  So the burn down rate of the telomeres, which are the little DNA caps that protect your DNA from aging, slow down their burn rate. So you literally age slower from the inside out when you have coffee. What's not to love about that? You know, and you're more awake anyway. So, um, so that's a second one. What are some of the other things I love? Listen, I'm a pretty seasonal person.

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  We're taping this in the summertime. Nothing I like better in the summertime than a really ripe tomato and a really ripe peach. And in fact, I just made a dish the other day where I mixed ripe tomato with ripe peaches together with hand torn basil leaves, a little bit of extra virgin olive oil, a little balsamic vinegar. I'm telling you, that made the best summer salad I've had in a long time. Right? So, again, you know, like, I like things that taste good, that are also good. Because if you can identify things that you love that are also good for you, then, man, you're like, you're a winner. Right? Let's see. I enjoy, um,

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  I enjoy different kinds of vegetables that are seasonal. I like asparagus. I like, I love mushrooms. Mushrooms are loaded with dietary fiber called beta glucan. Beta glucan actually is good for your gut health, which is good for your immune system. Mushrooms are great for immunity. If you want to boost up those super soldiers, mushrooms are great. What are some of the best mushrooms? Well, shiitake mushrooms, which are, you know, people talk about medicinal mushrooms, turkey tail and cordyceps and reishi. I try to say those are medicinal mushrooms. Stick with the mushrooms that are culinary mushrooms. Now, there are two mushrooms that are both culinary and medicinal. You know what they are?

• 1:52:39Speaker 01

  Shiitake and maitake mushrooms. Nice. In Japanese culture and Asian culture, they're both in the medicinal side and on the culinary side. So the Venn diagram crosses both of those. Amazing. And there's a, by the way, there's an interesting dietary supplement that I looked at the research on. So I'm not just only about food. I also pay attention to research and dietary supplements. There is a dietary supplement made from the tender little roots of shiitake mushrooms. So we don't really eat the root, the little spindly roots. We eat the stalk or the cap, right? It's little roots. Man, are they potent with polysaccharides.

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  It boosts your immune system. There's a dietary supplement called AHCC that actually makes a whole supplement out of that. But I love shiitake mushrooms. And then I started to do more research.

• 1:53:36Speaker 01

  When I travel, I'm always researching foods. I realized that trumpet mushrooms, you know, kind of thick stalk, a little cap. If you, they are packed with a, they have a lot of dietary fiber. Good for you. But they're also packed with a bioactive called ergothionine. Ergothionine is good for brain health, good for cognition, lowers depression, lowers anxiety. So, and that's really, the trumpet mushrooms are really packed with that. How do I cook them? I slice them in half. I rub them with a little bit of extra virgin olive oil. I get a really hot pan and I just sear one side of it. Little bit of sea salt.

• 1:54:22Speaker 01

  If I put a sprinkle of dried oregano or something on top of that and just let it kind of sear and brown up on one side, golden and crisp. Absolutely delicious. And I want to talk to you about the foods I like in the way that you can relate to why I like them. Not just because they're a laundry list of foods. Pomegranate juice I like because it actually is good for gut health. It grows a particular bacteria called Akkermansia. That Akkermansia muciniphila is one of those 39 trillion bacteria in the gut, but it's been studied in humans to help fight cancer

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  by boosting the immune system. All right. Helped improve your metabolism. Guess what it does? Akkermansia. It helps your body produce its own GLP-1, which is the weight loss diversion that the drug companies do is for weight loss and for diabetes. But GLP-1's now been discovered to actually help prevent cancer, help improve cancer survival, help prevent cancer spread. All kinds of goodness to it. And pomegranate juice is, for example, is one of the ways that you can cultivate and nurture your own healthy Akkermansia, which you can get as a supplement as well. But I love the, I like the taste of pomegranate

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  juice. Not too much. It's very sweet. Yeah. So again, you know, you know, you asked me the question, Dr. What kind of foods do you like? I got to tell you why I like them as well.

• 1:55:56André Duqum?

  I'm hungry now, first of all. Second, second of all, it's interesting. After a fast, you know, you taste a simple blueberry and how bursting with flavor it can be. Our tongue can be conditioned by the hyperpalatable foods and processed foods that kind of steal the appreciation away from these whole foods and how amazing they taste, you know. So I, those are all great reminders, little additions into our diet and by falling in love with those whole foods, you know.

• 1:56:31Speaker 01

  And I love blueberries too. We've just done some really interesting research on blueberries to look at their polyphenol levels, anthocyanin levels, and look at their taste. So, yeah, I mean, by the way, there's a new research discovery recently published that showed that if you made a smoothie with berries, like blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, and banana.

• 1:56:59Speaker 01

  That adding the banana will neutralize the polyphenols of the berries in your smoothie. So you don't want to put, if you want the good stuff in the berries, you don't want to mix it with a banana.

• 1:57:09André Duqum?

  Interesting.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  So again, this is a whole area of research I'm gonna work on. It's not just categorically saying this food is green light and that food is red light. I'm also looking at the subtleties of food, the food combinations, which are the best foods, how do you combine the foods together so they work together even better? You know, tomatoes contain lycopene. Lycopene is good for the metabolism, helps fight body fat, helps to cut off the blood supply to breast cancer and prostate cancer, so it's a good preventative as well. But if you want really to get the lycopene into your body in a much more significant way, you want to mix the tomato with something, and that something is extra virgin olive oil. Tomatoes and extra virgin olive oils, now you're talking about traditional Mediterranean eating, right?

• 1:57:55Speaker 01

  So again, you know, these are, these are the things that I find so fascinating and so pragmatic as well.

• 1:58:02André Duqum?

  Yeah, you're speaking my language. Growing up and just eating Middle Eastern my whole life, you know, it speaks, speaks to me. What about chocolate? It's the last, last one I want to ask you about chocolate.

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  Ah, well, I do like chocolate. I like dark chocolate particularly.

• 1:58:20André Duqum?

  Why is it good for us?

• 1:58:21Speaker 01

  Okay, so let's, let's, let's talk about some, uh, let's talk about the name chocolate. Chocolate, which is a candy, is a confection made by mixing things together, whether it's in a factory or at home, if you make your own chocolate, and then you add a lot of stuff to it, all right? And a lot of times the things you add to it, like sugar or other things to it, butter, like they're not, they're not the healthiest things for you. And, um, but the actual chocolate, to call it chocolate, relies on a plant-based food, which is cacao. And if you haven't seen a cacao bean, it's either yellow or brown, about the shape of a football,

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  about the size of a football, grows in a tree in tropical environments, and, um, and that's where chocolate comes from.

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  And that plant-based food.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  In the football-shaped pod, the pod is ripened, it's opened up. You've got all these little seeds in it. You peel off the flesh, which is a little sweet and sour. Actually, quite tasty. You dry them up and ferment them, and you crush them up. And now you've got pure cacao powder, or cocoa powder. And then you mix that together with various things that create chocolate. And the darker the chocolate, so dark chocolate, by percentage, 60%, 70%, 80%, 70, 80% or higher is better. Means you've got more of the plant-based material. And that plant-based material is packed with polyphenols. One of them is called proanthocyanidin.

• 1:59:59Speaker 01

  It's got catechins, the same thing that's in green tea, or similar. Lots of flavonols in it, allogentanins. But the proanthocyanid is amazing. It actually can mobilize our stem cells and call them out from our bone marrow into our bloodstream. So we've got more stem cells floating around to repair whatever needs to be repaired. And human studies have been done to look at cocoa flavanol from dark chocolate, actually, hot chocolate, two cups of hot chocolate using really high flavanol chocolate, dark chocolate, actually can up to double the number of stem cells in your circulation, measured in your blood. And it improves your vascular function, improves your circulation.

• 2:00:44Speaker 01

  And you can measure this through a test called flow-mediated dilation. So we know it works, which is really amazing. So it's good and good for you. And chocolate's one of those foods that, you know, when I talk about it, you know, I'm giving a talk or something, you know, like, it's the food that doesn't suck, nobody hates. Everybody like stands up and cheers when they hear there's something beneficial about chocolate.

• 2:01:13André Duqum?

  Yeah. We could keep going on for days. I love the passion behind so much of the work that you share. If you had to leave everybody with one message that they would take to heart for the next decade of their life, what would you leave them with?

• 2:01:34Speaker 01

  Optimize your gut health. Make those bacteria in your body work for you. Stay away from things that will damage your gut microbiome. Eat things that will support your gut microbiome. Because that gut microbiome does so much heavy lifting for your health defenses. And it's the undiscovered country that we all ignore. We've all ignored until recently. And it's the easiest thing to treat well. So it's sort of like the, you know, you treat your gut well and it's gonna have a ripple effect

• 2:02:14Speaker 01

  on your other health defense systems and your brain health and your mood as well.

• 2:02:21André Duqum?

  Dr. Lee, thank you so much, man. Is there anything else on your heart that you want to share with the context of the whole conversation we had that you feel would be important to add before we close out?

• 2:02:30Speaker 01

  The only thing I'll add is that, you know, listen, I'm constantly drinking from a fire hose of science every single day. I have a team of people that work with me and they know this. Like every day, every night, I'm sending them more information about new discoveries that are coming out that can actually have profound meaning. And so one of the things that I've decided to do is to put out on my YouTube channel, Dr. William Lee, L I, as much information as I can about the new discoveries and how they relate to practical information. This is what I'm passionate about is getting information out through video content, long-form video content, that people can use.

• 2:03:15Speaker 01

  And, you know, I try to make sure that I stay in my lane and to make sure that the information and the way that I give it is trusted information. Because we live in an era where there's so much misinformation out there. It's so easy to be overwhelmed. And I kind of felt like if I didn't put my voice out there, I would be missing a huge opportunity.

• 2:03:41André Duqum?

  Well, I think your voice is needed now. I mean, the rise of so many, like we mentioned earlier with cancers and diseases, and people at times feel like victims of circumstance. And one of the biggest take homes is outside of all the practical advice you gave, from the foods, the lifestyle, to the sleep and optimizing our lymphatic system, and our immune system, and our gut microbiome, and all of these things, is like that you can heal yourself. Your body knows how to. And you've given many powerful reminders of how to access that. So, so thank you, man. And we'll leave links down in the description where people can find your work, your books, your YouTube channel. And that's it. Thanks very much. Yeah, thank you.

• 2:04:26André Duqum?

  Pleasure to be here. Yeah, pleasure. Pleasure is mine. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the No Less Health Podcast. Until next time, be well. Thank you, man.