E196 - Dr. Vasant Lad: The Doctor From India: The Forgotten 5,000-Year-Old Science of the Human Body (Ayurveda

Dr. Vasant Lad is the founder of the Ayurvedic Institute and the man most responsible for bringing Ayurveda to the West. He has spent over 40 years teaching this 5,000-year-old science of life to practitioners across the world, and in this conversation, we sat down together at SoHum Mountain Healing Center in Asheville, North Carolina, where I had just completed a week-long Panchakarma. What unfolded was one of the most quietly profound conversations I have had on this show. What We Dive Into: ​ Why unprocessed emotions don’t simply pass — and how grief settles in the heart, anger in the liver, and fear in the kidneys until they’re physically released.​ How your tongue, pulse, and face reveal what’s happening inside your body, often before any symptom appears.​ Why your original constitution (prakruti) shapes everything from your digestion to your temperament — and how modern life pulls you away from it.​ The gap between two breaths, and why Dr. Lad calls it an ocean of awareness available to anyone willing to sit in it. THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: https://sohumhealing.com/panchakarma-retreat/ Code AndrePK2026 for $500 off your Panchakarma https://www.functionhealth.com/KNOWTHYSELF Code KNOWTHYSELF25 for $25 off membership ___________ 00:00 Intro 01:58 What Ayurveda Actually Means 02:40 The Five Elements, Three Doshas, and the Body 06:18 Prakruti, Vikruti, and the Root of Disease 08:00 The Sankhya Philosophy Behind Ayurveda 13:33 The Goal of Ayurveda 15:26 Dr. Lad's Path: Guru, Calling, and Coming West 18:06 Where Western Medicine Falls Short 22:05 Ama, Agni, and the Ayurvedic View of Disease 25:56 Pulse, Tongue, and Face: The Art of Diagnosis 34:29 Reading Psychological Nature Through the Pulse 39:00 The Gap Between Breaths: Awareness and Mysticism 44:37 How Repressed Emotions Crystallize in the Body 47:39 Panchakarma: Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Cleansing 51:52 Ojas, Tejas, and Prana: The Vital Essences 56:18 Sexual Energy, Celibacy, and the Cultivation of Ojas 1:00:07 Life as Meditation: The Unified Field 1:06:00 The Ayurvedic View of Death and Dying 1:14:56 Dinacharya: The Daily Routine as Spiritual Practice 1:18:48 The Doshic Clock and the Yugas 1:25:22 Relationship, Self-Knowledge, and the Closing Message ___________ MORE FROM DR. VASANT ✨Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drvasantlad 🌐https://ayurveda.com/about-vasant-lad/ MORE FROM KNOW THYSELF 🎙️Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4bZMq9l 🎧Apple: https://apple.co/4iATICX ✨Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/ 🎬TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@andreduqum 👥Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/knowthyselfbyandreduqum/ 🌐https://knowthyselfpodcast.com/ MORE FROM ANDRÉ ✨Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/@andreduqum 💼Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/know-thyself-podcast 📚Book recs: https://www.knowthyselfpodcast.com/book-list

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Without self-knowing, life has no meaning at all. We always live in the dead pass. And we speak from the dead pass. We listen from the dead pass. Image is created by judgment, criticism, like, dislike. And when image is heard at unresolved, heard, develop crystals. And the crystals accumulate into the body. If it is deep sorrow, it will be in the heart. Liver is a seat of anger. Kidney is a seat of fear. And through Ayurveda, those emotions, they start liquefying. They literally cry. My guru blessed me. He said, you will teach Ayurveda to the Western world. Ayurveda is a science of light. Body, mind, and consciousness become one.

• 0:40André Duqum?

  You want to go a little witchy on me? I'm down.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  So.

• 0:47André Duqum?

  Um, okay. So.

• 0:49Speaker 00

  Every person's deep nature of his consciousness can be felt through the pulse. Expiration is the death. Inspiration is reborn again. When you practice, it's dying. You reborn every moment. In that gap between two breaths is ocean of awareness. And that awareness is freedom. You will be reincarnated, not next life, but next breath.

• 1:20André Duqum?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Know Thyself podcast. We are at Soham in Asheville, North Carolina. A bit of a deviation from the normal studio shootings. And it feels great to be in nature with our guest today, who is the founder of the Ayurvedic Institute. The man who really has pioneered and brought Ayurveda to the West, which is a beautiful, over 5,000-year-old lineage. And he's trained thousands of practitioners, authored several books. And he's the man to dive deep into all things Ayurveda with. Dr. Vasant Lad, thank you for being here.

• 1:53Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:55André Duqum?

  Quite the, quite the pad.

• 1:58André Duqum?

  I wanna set a bit of the context in the stage for our audience, for everybody who's listening in, who may or may not have known about Ayurveda or don't know it at much depth. What does Ayurveda actually mean? What does that word mean?

• 2:13Speaker 00

  Oh, very beautiful question. The very word Ayu, Veda. Ayu is the life and Veda is the knowledge. And that systematized knowledge becomes science. So Ayurveda is a science of life in a simpler word. And it is so unified. It is so totally one with the universal law. So according to Ayurveda, the spiritual energy is pure awareness. And awareness is expressing itself is the ethereal space. Air, fire, water, earth. These are called five great element.

• 2:58Speaker 00

  And they are present in every tree, every flower, every human being. There is a Sanskrit quotation that Sarvani, dravyani, panchabhotikani. All organic and inorganic matter is made up of five great element. These are very important. So in the body, there are smaller and bigger spaces. Abdominal space, thoracic space, cranial space. So that is ethereal space. At cellular level, every cell has a space. And through the cellular space, there is a communication going on. If I want to communicate with you, first I had to create space in my heart and then listen.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  Then I have direct communication. So space is very important. Space is freedom. Space is love and space is communication. Then second important principle is air. Air is the principle of movement. In our body, the lungs are breathing. Diaphragm is moving. Heart is beating. All these movement, affront, ifront, sensory motor. All these movements are governed by air element. Air is the principle of movement. Then where there is a movement, there is a friction. Where there is a friction, there is a heat, the fire. And the fire in the body is digestive fire. Liver generates large amount of heat, so liver is also seat of fire.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  That is called bhuta agni. Agni is the fire. And this fire, agni, maintain hunger, appetite, digestion, absorption, assimilation, and transformation of food into consciousness. All these are governed by fire. Then comes water. Water is the plasma, the serum, the cytoplasm. All that biological substance, plasma, the serum is water. And without water, cell cannot survive.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Water is a universal chemical solvent. It is there. Then come earth. Earth is a solid ground like calcium, magnesium, zinc, iron, copper. So, all these five elements are present in our body. So, this is a structural aspect of the body. But biological combination of ether, air, fire, water, earth, split into three dosha. Ether and air create vata. Vata is a principle of movement. Fire and water become pitta. Pitta is the biochemical activities. And kapha is earth and water, the building block material. So, all these vata, pitta, kapha, they are present in every RNA, DNA,

• 5:42Speaker 00

  as our genetic code, as our blueprint. And we carry that blueprint in our body. So, these three doshas, they were governing this biological structure of the body and psychosomatic expression of the body. These are called three dosha. And every individual has a unique expression of consciousness. In the true sense of the world, individual is indivisible, undivided, total, unique expression of awareness. So, we all are individual. Now, based on our individual prakruti, which is our constitution,

• 6:23Speaker 00

  and because of change in the season, change in the time, change in the age, change in the environment. We, our prakruti ratio, vata pitthakafa undergoes change. And that change alter status of vata pitthakafa is called vikruti. Vikruti is present alter status. And prakruti is your genetic code. And Ayurveda is a science of prakruti-vikruti paradigm.

• 6:51André Duqum?

  So if I have it right, the way that you just described it, the prakruti is what you come into genetically. That's what you're set with. You have a constitution of these different elements in different levels.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 7:02André Duqum?

  Vata-pitthakafa. And we're all born with a set amount of each. And then we have vikruti, which is the variation, the difference, the delta between that as we live and eat and move in society, it changes.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  Correct. But this vikruti is the potential womb in which disorder may happen.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  If we don't balance vikruti back to the prakruti, then there is a health. So vikruti is the root cause of all disease, psychosomatic disorder.

• 7:34André Duqum?

  It's a very different conception from the Western allopathic model, which I want to get into with you. But so if that is the source of disease, the vikruti, then what is the premise of what Ayurveda is trying to understand and bring to everyone's understanding? And as I have it, it's part one of six different core yogic or Indian philosophies.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  So sankhya is a very profound philosophy that Ayurveda is based upon. Sat means truth. And khya means to realize. To realize the truth behind the creation of universe is sankhya.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  And there are twenty-four evolute. The first expression is purusha. Purusha is awareness. Puravshetayitishaha purusha. Puravin city, Taikpandarpur, Kanpur, Nagpur. And our body is a city of senses. And within this sensory... Mechanism, the city of Sainsa, there is a pure awareness. That awareness is called Purusha. And Prakruti is creative potential. And this whole universe is a divine dance of Prakruti in presence of Purusha.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  So, Purusha and Prakruti, both are eternal timeless existence. They were one. Because of Satvrajatamas, these three gunas were absolutely in equilibrium. But when their equilibrium is disturbed, the big bang happened. And during that big bang, Prakruti is separated from Purusha. And first expression is Mahat, which is cosmic intelligence. And intelligence means to put everything in its right place. That's the glory of intelligence. So, Purusha, Prakruti, Mahat, Tahanka, I am.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  That I am-ness is there. Every creature, every bird has a feeling of I am, I am. And that eternal I am is existential.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  And that I am-ness is called Ahanka. And because of that Ahanka, in our body, every single cell has a definite form, definite shape. RNA, DNA, they have definite shape. The shape of that RNA, DNA is coming from Ahanka.

• 10:11André Duqum?

  Which is ego, is that right?

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Then we call it ego.

• 10:15André Duqum?

  We call it ego, but separate sense.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  Ahanka means I form a.

• 10:19André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  And I form a, you know, I am is not ego, it is existential. But I am doctor, I am engineer, I am carpenter, then it ego come. In pure existence, there is I am-ness, it is not Ahanka. It is just existential pulsation, which is called Spanda.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  Spanda karika. Spanda is Shiva Shakti vibration. And that Shiva Shakti vibration is constantly creating the feeling of.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  Who I am, my who. So that my who is existential. And because of ahankar, the fertilized egg underwent to the different mitotic division. And in that division, millions of cells, they come to create a brain. Other million came to create cardiovascular system, the lung, the skeletal system. All this an expression of ahankar. If there is no ahankar, no creation is possible. Then it become ego. Then I, this is my life, this is me. And then we always do all egotistical activity, that is ahankar.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  But in Shankara model of creation, ahankar is biological need. That is absolute necessary to create your self-identity. Yeah. Self-existence. Then ahankar has three guna, satva, rajas and tamas. Satva is clarity, purity. Rajas is movement, agitation, temptation. And tamas is the darkness, the material thing. Now you are observing, so you are satva. My body is tamas, it is material. And your satva is coming through your sensory perception to meet with this tamas. So meeting point of satva raja tamas gives us experience.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  So there is no experience without this equilibrium between satva, the observer, rajas, the observation, and tamas, the thing to be observed. So this is wonderful thing. And Shankara philosophy talks a great deal about that. From the satva, the whole sensory world is created. And from the tamas, the whole objective world is created. And rajas is the bridge between satva and tamas. So this is briefly Shankara's philosophy, I like that philosophy.

• 12:47André Duqum?

  How old is the philosophy?

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Oh, for a Westerner, we say 5,000 because they don't like to go back. Then it is more than 5,000. It is 10,000 years old philosophy. But you know, for the Westerners, they don't like anything which is very old. They say it is prehistoric.

• 13:09André Duqum?

  I mean, yeah, it's tough to recount anything past last week. I'm trying to think of what the original intention was in discovering and formalizing words to this philosophy 5, 10,000 years ago and the relevance it has today. So what is the goal of Ayurveda? And this understanding from the Tridoshana, the five elements, and the trigunas? What is it all aiming to serve?

• 13:34Speaker 00

  Ayurveda is the medicine of individual. Individual medicine.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  Satvam, atma, shari, raja, trayam, et tridandavat. Satva is the mind. Atma is the conscious principle and shari is the physical body. So Ayurveda helps us to understand the shari is a physical body, your prakruti, your vikruti. Then we have physical prakruti, then we have mental prakruti, and then we go into the pure consciousness. So the Ayurveda aims at to create balance of sattva raja tamas and to heal the body, the mind, and consciousness. When we heal the body, mind, and consciousness, then person's life become happy, peaceful, blissful.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  And Ayurveda is a science of longevity. Jeeva yada sarada ha shatam, pashe ma sarada ha shatam. Let us see each other for 100 years. That's a beautiful thing. So why to live long? Just to enjoy the life. So Ayurveda is a science of longevity of life. It is understanding what the individual's prakruti is and what is the present alter status of prakruti, which is vikruti. And prakruti-vikruti paradigm is the basic paradigm in Ayurveda.

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• 15:58André Duqum?

  So you were sort of... if I have it right, from a guru who said that you, from a young age, would go on to teach Ayurveda to the West. What, you were a quiet young boy. How did this path first kind of come into your vision for... before you came out to the West and everything, you were teaching back in India? What was it like as a young kid who was quiet? Who was told that you were going to do big things with Ayurveda?

• 16:28Speaker 00

  In India, we have guru-shisha tradition.

• 16:31André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  So my guru is my father's guru. And my father took me to his guru. And I saw him, his simplicity, his clarity, his love, his compassion. I was totally thrilled. Then he initiated me. And during initiation, he gave me mantra, he taught me how to sit and how to meditate. And then he blessed me. He said, "You will become Ayurvedic physician."

• 17:02Speaker 00

  You will teach Iyurveda to the Western world. And through Iyurveda, you will bring this beautiful spiritual foundation for education. Because without self-knowing, life has no meaning at all. If you do not know yourself, your education, your degree has no value whatsoever. So self-knowing is very important. And Iyurveda is the science of self-knowing. To know yourself, that's why we are, this is education. We teach the people, hey, you are Vat, you are Pitt, you are Kapha. Then this is a proper diet for you. And that is not a proper diet for you. And that's why the whole base of Panchakarma is like,

• 17:47Speaker 00

  understanding what is Prakruti, what is Vikruti. Based upon that, we give individualistic PK, Panchakarma program, which is detoxification. Because we have, we have toxified our brain. Too many judgment, criticism, like, dislike, and all that. And there are, in our day-to-day life relationship, Iyurveda says, our life is relationship. Relationship between husband and wife, girlfriend, boyfriend. But also my relationship with my body, my relationship with my mind, and my relationship with my consciousness must be absolutely clear. And clarity in relationship breeds compassion.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  And compassion is love. Therefore, love and clarity go together. So in Panchakarma, based upon Prakruti-Vikruti paradigm, we use Shiro-dara, which is, oil is running. You have experienced that oil is running through the scalp.

• 18:46André Duqum?

  It's been a very oily week for me, yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  Because the baby, which is, which was in the mother's womb, it was surrounded by amniotic fluid. And that was the oily surrounding, oily environment. And the baby was moving. Oil is very important for the cells to live long.

• 19:03André Duqum?

  I've regressed back to my fetus origins. I, so, I mean, I felt so amazing this week, and I know how powerful Iyurveda is. In my own personal life, right now, when we look out into the world, roughly seven in ten people in American society are overweight or obese. Six of ten, some sort of chronic disease or illness. Roughly twenty plus percent of people on some sort of psychiatric medication.

• 19:33André Duqum?

  I think Krishnamurti has quoted, "It's no measure of success to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

• 19:39Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 19:40André Duqum?

  And I'm curious, your thoughts on where the Western allopathic model is fundamentally getting it wrong when it comes to treating chronic disease and illness?

• 19:49Speaker 00

  No, Western model is wonderful because during acute emergency, we have to go to the Western model during severe heart attack or fracture or stroke paralysis. Then we need that. But once the emergency is over, then there is no way. Then they have to come to Ayurved. Then Ayurved gives them proper diet, proper lifestyle, detox program, cleansing program, rejuvenation program, cholasia. So this is very good that Ayurved, we are teaching Ayurved concurrently and inherently, together with based upon modern medicine.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  Because modern medicine says, "There is no fever without infection." But there is fever without infection. Then they say, "Oh, this is a fever of non-specific origin." Non-specific origin. There Ayurved says, "When your pitta is high, fever is there." And when your pitta is low, you will be under hypothermia. So Ayurved, look at every disease as certain imbalance between body, mind, and consciousness, imbalance between vada, pitta, kapha. And there are dhatu, the seven dhatu. Rasa, rata, mams, me, das, shivaj, ja, shukra. Rasa, the plasma, the serum, the cytoplasm.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  Rata, the blood. Mams are the muscles, skeletal muscles, smooth muscles, striated muscle. Then asti, the bones, cartilage. Then majja, the bone marrow, including majja is the nervous system. And shukra, ardo, male and reproductive and female reproductive tissue. So dosha, dhatu, malam, mulam, hi, shariro. This constitution, the foundation of constitution is three dosha, sevan dhatu and three malat. Within this structure, they have built their whole system of medicine. And when they are out of balance, then it creates illness. So, the very beautiful definition of disease is dosha, dusha, sammurshana, janitavaya.

• 21:54Speaker 00

  Aggravated dosha entering into the tissue. They attack the tissue and they alter the tissue's function and tissue structure and then it will create a disease. This is wonderful. And what we are doing in Panchakarma, we are separating this complex network of mixture of dosha and dhatu. Because in that, we build aama. Aama is a toxic, morbid metabolic waste. And if our agni, the digestive fire, is not at par, then undigested food become toxic. So, aama is a toxic, morbid metabolic waste. And that aama is accumulating in the brain, in the lungs, in the liver, in the heart, in the cardiovascular system.

• 22:38Speaker 00

  And that causes the disease. So, this is a very long lingering. During acute attack, we have to go to the modern medicine. But in Ayurveda, when heart attack is over, we can give proper diet, proper rithbasti. We create a dough, a whole wheat dough and put on the heart and put flaxseed on, amazing.

• 22:58André Duqum?

  I did that.

• 22:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. And that will improve to dilate the coronary artery and it can prevent the future coming attack.

• 23:06André Duqum?

  For people that aren't as familiar with the vernacular and vocabulary, how would you, would you say inflammation is similar to aama? How would you, from the Western perspective, what's the closest thing to aama?

• 23:20Speaker 00

  You know, aama is a toxic, morbid metabolic waste. And aama changes our biochemistry.

• 23:28Speaker 00

  Arm is the root cause of inflammatory marker. But inflammation is produced by Pitta. When Pitta is high, it will create inflammation. When Kapha is high, it will create congestion. And Vata increase, Vata will create degeneration, deterioration, destruction of the tissue. So, there are certain diseases. They are due to catabolic changes. They are called degenerative diseases. Some certain diseases are over nourishment. Anabolic disorder. Obesity, hypertension, hyperlipidemia. These are anabolic disorder. And the catabolic disorder is arthritis, rheumatism, sciatica, old age.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  And in between them, inflammatory diseases, they come under Pitta. Again, Vata, Pitta, Kapha is there.

• 24:18André Duqum?

  So, let's say maybe we have a couple hundred thousand people listening to this podcast right now. I would love to bring it directly into their experience. When you say Pitta, Kapha, Fata. And we can put some images on screen. Can you describe what the constitution looks like for each of those persons?

• 24:36Speaker 00

  Beautiful. The physical appearance also denote the type of the Dusha. Generally, Vata people, they are tall, skinny, mini, tini, tiny. They are hyper, even they feel parallel with the finger. You will not in the thing to, they will put finger in the ear. Whenever there is space, they will put finger. So this is weird, but this is a fact. Because Vata has affinity to the space. So, Vata individuals, their skin is dry, dry joint, cracking, poking. And they are hyper and they are restless, anguish. They love jogging, jumping, and they are hyper. So, this is the typical picture of Vata. Pitta people are medium body frame, but they wear glasses, very bright, brilliant, intellectual people, always study.

• 25:21Speaker 00

  They sleep with a book on their chest. Weird, because they are the bookworms. They like that, reading, studying, knowledge, investigation. And Kapha people, they enjoy the life, they love to eat. And they have little robust body frame. And they are very calm, quiet, blissful. So, just by looking at the individual, we understand what type of the person's Prakruti is. Prakruti is your personality, is your body type.

• 25:52André Duqum?

  So for somebody who's listening right now and maybe sees themselves more pitta or more vata, how would that correspond? You'd mentioned a bit of their temperament and their physical makeup. What proclivities would they have towards certain diseases, illnesses? So they can see like what are, how do they easily each come out of balance?

• 26:13Speaker 00

  Actually, I'll read the mono type are three, vata type, pitta type, kapha type, mono. Dual vata, pitta, pitta, kapha, kapha, vata. And triple, there are many. So there is what we decided through the pulse examination, we'll find out what is the major dosha. When I read my own pulse and there is a part of listening to the pulse, my proclivity is vata two, pitta three, kapha one. One is low, two is moderate, three is more. So I'm pitta predominant, vata secondary. But because of diet, lifestyle changes, the dosha go out of balance and that can be detected to the superficial pulse.

• 26:55André Duqum?

  Would you read mine?

• 26:55Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, that's great.

• 26:57André Duqum?

  Want both?

• 26:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 00

  Wow. Can I see your tongue?

• 27:16André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. You're traveling a lot. So your proclivity is pretty balanced, two, three, two, vata two, pitta three, kapha two. But because of traveling, your vata is high and that vata is pushing pitta. I'm glad that you come here to receive Panchakarma and that shirodar and all that technique. So this is, you're pretty, tridoshi pretty close. Two, three, two, vata two, pitta three, kapha two. These people are very spiritual, very loving, compassionate, they do wonderful work. But because of traveling, stress, the vata is high.

• 27:52André Duqum?

  So pitta predominant, vata kapha pretty similar?

• 27:55Speaker 00

  Identical. That's interesting, very good.

• 27:59André Duqum?

  And you're pitta predominant?

• 28:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm pitta predominant, vata secondary.

• 28:02André Duqum?

  Okay.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  But my vata get, I get it, that's why I'm bundled up with clothes and keep myself warm. I hate cold, I love warm.

• 28:13André Duqum?

  So for people that don't know what that is, what is pulse reading? So the primary tools for diagnosis, as far as I can understand, is like the face, the tongue, the pulse. How are you able to detect someone's constitution through the pulse? Because especially for the Westerners, that's like very...

• 28:31Speaker 00

  This is very beautiful. For example, whenever I read the pulse, this is index finger, middle finger, ring finger. This is radial artery. I'm feeling and going deep, deep, deep.

• 28:46Speaker 00

  So if the spike comes here, it is kapha. This is proximal, proximal kapha one, kapha two, kapha three. Middle spike is pitta, pitta one, pitta two, pitta three. And distal spike is vata, vata one, vata two, vata three. So when I go down, deep down, under all three finger, I get pitta, pitta, pitta, pitta is three. But under index and middle finger, I get vata two. And under ring and middle finger, I get kapha. So your prakruti is vata two, pitta three, kapha two, two, three, two. That is your constitution to the deep pulse.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  Then I come to the superficial level, the present altered status of the dosha. Definitely your vata is high. And the vata is high under the middle finger, and it is pushing pitta. So vata pushing pitta is the present status. This is amazing. All our students learn that. And we teach through webinar, through seminar, on these different heart of... Astha vidya pariksha, nadi, mutram, malam, jum, a, shabdas, parshad, drukakruti. Wonderful. Nadi, the pulse. Tongue exam is very important because tongue is the mirror of viscera. So in this Ayurvedic clinical assessment, Ayurveda is a very clinical medicine. Plus it has philosophy. It has detoxification.

• 30:13Speaker 00

  So from Ayurvedic point of view, these are the methods to understand about the individual's prakruti, vikruti.

• 30:22André Duqum?

  So let's say somebody had a higher vata. What's something they could do in their life to help bring back into balance to more their precarity?

• 30:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, when the vata is high, we pin down what symptoms person get. Gas, constipation, bloating, lambabo or stiffness in the back or cracking and popping of the joint and insomnia. So this is the high vata. Then we can give some diet to calm down the vata. The warm, freshly cooked, warm food with little ghee in it. Ghee is oily, which will again help the person to calm down vata dosha. Then we will tell them, don't eat nightshade, potato, tomato, eggplant. He can eat avocado or okra, broccoli, all those things. And then in that, they should not drink cold water because vata is cold. They should drink warm water. So this way, we can give dietary health.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  And there are certain herbal protocol we give. Ashwagandha, bala, vidhari to calm down vata dosha. And because of gas bloating, we can give gandharva haritaki. This is one of the trifala, one of the ingredients of trifala. And that is roasted with cast iron in the castor oil. And that gandharva haritaki is so beautiful. Half a teaspoon with warm water, it will calm down the gases. It will evacuate the bowel. And person suddenly feels grounded. That's the glory of it. So this way, in case of vata person, we can do this.

• 31:52André Duqum?

  What else do you pick up from the face or the tongue? What are you looking for? And we'll throw some images up on screen. But I think especially from the Western perspective, we don't have the same conception of our tongue being a map into what's happening inside of us. So how is the tongue, representation of our internal organs?

• 32:11Speaker 00

  Although we have, whenever I look at the tongue, the tip of the tongue is related to the thyroid gland. Tongue is divided into three parts. Anterior one-third, middle one-third, posterior one-third. For example, can I stick out your tongue? So you have arm in the colon, there is tightness in the mid-back, neck and shoulder blade area. And you know, you have krumi.

• 32:34André Duqum?

  What?

• 32:35Speaker 00

  Krumi is a parasite. You have some G R D and a parasite.

• 32:39André Duqum?

  Wow.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  There are patches of depapulation.

• 32:42André Duqum?

  Depopulation?

• 32:43Speaker 00

  Depatulation.

• 32:44André Duqum?

  Depatulation?

• 32:47Speaker 00

  You have patches of depapulation.

• 32:49André Duqum?

  Okay, what is that?

• 32:51Speaker 00

  These papillae are peeled off because of that krumi, the parasite. That's why it may create little bloating, discomfort.

• 32:58André Duqum?

  Is that like a gut dysbiosis?

• 33:00Speaker 00

  Correct, correct, correct.

• 33:00André Duqum?

  Okay.

• 33:01Speaker 00

  The tongue is the mirror of gut.

• 33:03André Duqum?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  And just by looking at the size and the shape and the surface of the tongue, the margins of the tongue. When person get indentation marks of teeth along the margins of the tongue, that is a sign of malabsorption. When there is a line at the central part of the tongue, that means person is holding emotions along the spine, the neck, the shoulder.

• 33:23André Duqum?

  Is that what you saw with my tongue? I mean, I'm holding tension. I have tension there for sure.

• 33:29Speaker 00

  That's why. And then when the white coating is, that is armor.

• 33:33André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  When the armor has patches of depapulation, that's a sign of some parasites are there. Which one I get parasite?

• 33:40André Duqum?

  Yeah, yeah. No, I'm curious because I went to Bali like a few months back and I got, uh, we got Bali belly. So we were all puking and it was pretty bad for a week.

• 33:51Speaker 00

  People who travel a lot and there are different waters, sometimes these parasites, they can come through the food or through the water. So that is quite possible. So this, uh, one of the wonderful Ayurvedic diagnostic tool is examination of tongue.

• 34:07André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 00

  The pearls of the tongue. And through that,

• 34:12Speaker 00

  just by observing this thing, we build up, find out which dosha is affected, which dhatu the tissue is involved. And then we can create a unique individualistic protocol. Doshapratanik specific to the dosha. Dhatu pratanik specific to the tissue. Then organ pratanik, which is specific to the organ, the vital organ, the brain, the heart, the lung. And then that formula really hit the head of the nail and it really works.

• 34:45Speaker 02

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• 35:14Speaker 04

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• 35:44André Duqum?

  So, again, I like to think about the differences in how the Western and the Eastern conceive these different things. I feel like we treat the mind and the body as two separate phenomena, largely in the West, and the way you're describing what you're observing through the pulse and the tongue and Ayurvedic as a system is very mind-body connected as one system, and the mental and emotional affect the physical and vice versa. So, I'm curious, what outside of just the physical, maybe? If you, I'm happy to be your guinea pig, and I know that through the pulse readings and just being in someone's presence after doing this for so many years, you start to pick up other things, which some would say you have like no business in knowing,

• 36:25André Duqum?

  because how could you possibly know these things about someone's mind or body just by a simple pulse read?

• 36:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 36:32André Duqum?

  So, if you want to go a little witchy on me, I'm down.

• 36:35Speaker 00

  Generally, these are the seventh level pulse is prakruti, first level is dhruti. Then sixth level is manas prakruti. That is your psychological makeup.

• 37:01Speaker 00

  So, whenever I go to that level, sixth level, I'm just explaining how we come to this conclusion. Then we imagine there is eight petal lotus under my finger. This is petal one, petal two, and each petal represents the prakruti, the constitution. So, when I was feeling your manas prakruti, these are the words, you are indra, agni, and varuna. Indra, agni, varuna, means you are a very spiritual person, very loving and highly knowledgeable. There is a great compassion in you.

• 37:46Speaker 00

  And these are the manas prakruti. Every individual has this different type. And they explain, because agni is knowledgeable, then yama is introspective. Then niruta is related to the, some depressive personality. And other is varuna, which is compassion, which is your very compassion. So, every person's deep nature of his consciousness can be felt through the pulse. As example, I have given this.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  So, body, mind, and consciousness, this trinity is the unity of life. And ayurveda has specific protocol for the body, for the mind, and for building up the consciousness through meditation, through mudra, through marma, we can help. So, this is a very totally different approach to the individual, and people love that. Because that change their life, even student who come to learn ayurveda, SP1, SP2, SP, their life is changing. They say that our life is changing because it brings clarity, compassion, and self-respect also.

• 39:12Speaker 00

  So this is very profound science.

• 39:15André Duqum?

  What are the other five lotus petals? What else could you pick up on someone's mental level?

• 39:21Speaker 00

  You know, there are some, sometimes you can get the petal number three, which is yama. And they may be introspective, but they are tendency towards self judgmental, self hatred, and that will lead to the depression. Then the next petal is the fourth number petal, which is nayrutha. Nayrutha is a, could be bipolar disorder. Or it could be some spiritual possession. People get possessed by some evil spirit and they, they act weird like a schizophrenic. So the schizophrenia personality can be seen there through that.

• 40:02André Duqum?

  Yes.

• 40:04Speaker 00

  Then compassion, which is wonderful. Then other is a very bipolar disorder. And that is, that is, that is very connected to the depressive, obsessive compulsive behavior, that kind of. And then come the north side of that is a kubera, which is very royal, which person. And then come Yishan, Yishan is very spiritual. So all these eight personalities are connected to the eight direction. East, west, north, south, northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest.

• 40:43Speaker 00

  This is the energy field, geomagnetic energy field shaping the consciousness.

• 40:51André Duqum?

  Wow.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  This is very, very interesting. It just.

• 40:59André Duqum?

  What else we got?

• 41:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  You are amazing, very profound. You are spiritual. You do yoga, practice pranayama, practice meditation, practice.

• 41:18Speaker 00

  There is a great deal of compassion.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Do you love mysticism?

• 41:27André Duqum?

  I tend to lean that way, yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 00

  Mysticism.

• 41:34Speaker 00

  Iiravita talks a great deal about mysticism.

• 41:36André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 41:38Speaker 00

  There is a great mystery around us. Even our heart is beating, it's a mystery. The lungs are breathing, it is a mystery.

• 41:48Speaker 00

  And mysticism can be unfolded when we watch the breath.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  There is a gap between inhalation and exhalation. Stay in that gap. In the beginning, then slowly carry your attention. There is a silent gap between two thoughts. Then stay in that gap. And then bring to the perception. In between two perceptions, there is a gap. In that gap between two perceptions, between two thoughts, between two breaths, is a great awareness, is ocean of awareness. And that awareness is freedom. That awareness is unconditional know.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  And in that awareness, the mysteries happen. So you like that mysticism?

• 42:47André Duqum?

  Yeah, yeah. I'm just very drawn to it and I think through this podcast, it's called Know Thyself. And so, and so the whole, the whole premise is to be exploring all these deeper aspects.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  And that is the whole foundation of Iiravita, Know Thyself. So, Know Thyself is only possible when we are having moment to moment awareness of our perception, our thought, our feelings, our emotion. And in that, the miracle happen. Suddenly glimpses you can see beyond. So, these are the, in that thing, you will get spike at the center. And I have spike, I'm the center. So you love that mysticism, that's what I was sharing with you.

• 43:40André Duqum?

  Thank you.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  You're welcome, sir.

• 43:42André Duqum?

  So you are those typically three levels that you go in? Is that like body, mind, consciousness?

• 43:46Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 43:48André Duqum?

  Amazing.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  Actually, there are seven levels.

• 43:51André Duqum?

  Really?

• 43:52Speaker 00

  But these are very subtle. The seventh level is the prakruti. Second level is manas prakruti. Then fifth level is your dhatu condition. It's like vata pitakapa. And you are of seven, there are dhaturas, are of the mountains, made ashiva, jashukara. And then we can come to the hoja stages pran, then sub-tackle the dosha, and then manas vikruti. So there are seven layers of the pulse to know. And when you change the level, it can change the spike. When you get different spike, you are at a different level. And it demands a great deal of awareness to read that. And it is a technique and it is a method.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  And once they learn the technique and method, and then they bring the awareness to their tip of the finger, they can read that.

• 44:44André Duqum?

  Amazing. Well, before we move on, is there anything else in that regard? Either through my pulse or through my face? I just, it's a great opportunity to be with you. So is there anything else you pick up in me?

• 44:55Speaker 00

  No, we also have face reading, looking at the person's face, the brow face, the tapering heart shape face, and the flat cheeks, some conches. Everything has its significant value. So when we look at the person's forehead, and there is a prominent line to the medial side that is liver line. Left side is spleen line. So person's liver and spleen, they are working under straight. When there are horizontal line, there are a couple of worries. Then when the lower eyelids are bulge, that is aging, plus it is connected to the kidney and bladder. So this is interesting. And we can read the face. Facial line has a significant importance. Then there is a double chin, which is sluggish thyroid.

• 45:40Speaker 00

  And then nasolabial line is prominent, that means person has malabsorption. All these things are there. And we use that in our clinical assessment.

• 45:49André Duqum?

  Are there any imbalances you see from my face alone?

• 45:52Speaker 00

  No, you have beautiful, no imbalance. You have bossing forehead, you know? Tall, bossing forehead. That means you are very spiritual.

• 46:02André Duqum?

  Or does balding, one of the two?

• 46:04Speaker 00

  Balding is different. There is a forehead which is from the forehead. When person has a tall forehead, that mean the frontal lobe is very tall and great. And frontal lobe, when it is very developed, it is a spiritual. So that's interesting.

• 46:24André Duqum?

  I'm curious if you could elaborate a bit more on the link between the psychosomatic element, like the how repressed emotions affect organs, which affect our physical health and vice versa. And then that manifests through our tongue, through our face, through our pulse, we can see these things.

• 46:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I read a talk so great bit about what is emotion?

• 46:46Speaker 00

  Emotion is the reaction of past memory to the present challenge. So in our day to day life relationship,

• 46:58Speaker 00

  I build my own image and if my wife has her image. And when these two images are there, then communication is filtered. Because image is created by judgment, criticism, like, dislike, experience and conclusion. These are the factors that build the image. And therefore, in our day to day life sharing, we go into the dead pass. We always live in the dead pass and we speak from the dead pass, we listen from the dead pass. And through that, the image get hurt.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  And when image is hurt, then that unresolved hurt is accumulated into the body, depending upon nature and structure of the emotion. If it is a lot of grief and sadness, it will go to the lung. If it is deep sorrow, it will be in the heart. Liver is a seat of anger, gallbladder is a seat of hate, spleen is a seat of attachment, kidney is a seat of fear, anxiety, and stomach become nervous, and colon is also connected to these emotions of fear. So all these, when we do not understand the emotion completely, right from beginning till the ending,

• 48:20Speaker 00

  then unresolved emotion, unprocessed emotion, they develop crystals. And this is called crystallization of emotion. And the crystals of grief, sadness, they accumulate into their respective organs. So in Panchakarma, when we do Abhyanga, Snehan, Svedan, Holiation, Sudation, then those emotions, they start liquefying. There is a decrystallization of emotion. And all Vata emotion, they come to the colon. Pitta emotion, they come to the intestine. And Kapha emotion come to the stomach. And we remove them by woman, woman is a hemetics therapy, to remove the emotions from the stomach.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Then Viruparshing, which is a Viration, remove the Pittagenic emotion from liver, gallbladder, and intestine. And that really feels good. And then Basti, the Enema therapy, remove the emotions associated with colon and kidney. And that way, Ayrway, the brings all these emotional crystals to the gut. And by bringing them to the gut, then these are the big passages. Woman vomiting, therapeutic vomiting is very important, that allow the grief to come out. Viration will remove the anger, fear, and Basti will help to...

• 49:48Speaker 00

  To remove the ungroundedness, insecurity, all these emotional factors. So Ayurvedic's perspective is very important. Panchakarma has that much depth to go to the emotional level. Therefore, people come here for one week, two week. Then there is a quite a deeper and deeper cleansing.

• 50:09André Duqum?

  What is the link between the physical cleansing and then coming to emotional clarity? And then spiritual connection? What do you see as the link between physical vitality and spiritual vitality?

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Correct, correct. You know, on and over is people come here for one week. Within one week, when they are going through the Abhyanga, Snehan, Svedan, Oliation and Sudation, and we give internally poliation with the Ghi. Within three days, they become very emotional. Then all these emotions come. And when they are working, our practitioners are working on them like Rudbasti or Yakrudbasti. Then whatever their anger, their fear, it comes out. And finally, on the last day, we put them in a dark room.

• 51:00Speaker 00

  And there is a different light spectrum, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple and indigo. This light therapy, which is called chromotherapy, they literally cry. So within one week, we can do physical cleansing, emotional cleansing and also spiritual cleansing.

• 51:25André Duqum?

  Hey fam, a quick break to share two things that I think will genuinely serve you. If you're listening to this episode, you care about going deeper into your health than the typical system allows. So these felt right to share together. The first is I just did this Panchakarma at Soham Mountain Healing Resort, which you're seeing me do that podcast in. The program Dr. Lad himself designed and it was genuinely one of the most nourishing weeks I've had in a long time. Seven days in the Blue Ridge Mountains, expertly chefed Ayurvedic meals, four handed massages. Shirodara, they pamper you. There's daily check-ins with your practitioner. The whole thing is personalized for you from the pre-screening on. It's probably the most premium Pachakarma experience available,

• 52:10André Duqum?

  and they were kind enough to offer you guys a discount if you want to check them out. The link is in the description and you can use code ANDREPK2026 for 500 bucks off your stay. Secondly, something I have come to really appreciate is that Eastern and Western medicine aren't actually at odds. They're answering different questions. And personally, I love using them both when it comes to diagnostics particularly. The Western lens gives you data, hard numbers on your inflammation, hormones, nutrient levels, and the Eastern lens gives you context, what those numbers mean for you, your constitution, your patterns. I like to gather data from both and then more often than not, I lean Eastern when it comes to actually treating things, foods, herbs, lifestyle, breath, water.

• 52:55André Duqum?

  But you can't course correct what you can't see. That's where Function Health comes in. They run over 160 lab tests a year, vitamin D, HSCRP, hormones, heavy metals, even microplastics, things a standard physical doesn't come close to touching that we really need to be looking for in the modern day that we live in. Everything's tracked over time, so you're watching your health evolve, not just getting a snapshot. You can go even deeper through their integrations with Claude and ChatGPT, which I personally love doing. It's $365 a year, basically a buck a day. I'm a member and it's genuinely changed how I think about what's going on inside my body. If you'd like to check out your health the way I do, visit functionhealth.com/knowleself

• 53:38André Duqum?

  or use code knowleself25 for 25 bucks credit towards your membership. Everything's linked down in the description below. I hope you enjoy. Be healthy, be happy. Back to Sohom.

• 53:53André Duqum?

  Could you explain a bit of the refinement from the bodily tissues arriving at Shakra and Ojas? So, how does, from the food we eat, transmute and alchemize deeper, deeper into these more potent forms? And then, I want to ask you about Ojas.

• 54:13Speaker 00

  Wonderful, yeah. In our day-to-day life, whatever meal we eat, within 12 hours, the end product of digested food becomes ahar rasa, which is called mikrochyl. And that mikrochyl is circulated in the body. So, the whole Ayurvedic concept of nutrition, the plasma, which is rasa dhatu, within five days, the unprocessed plasma cell becomes processed. So, this is a very beautiful nutritional, five days for rasa, 10 days for raktta. It goes up to 35 days. And after the end of the 35 days,

• 54:56Speaker 00

  the superfine product of shukra and artha will become ojas. And ojas is your body's immune mechanism. The ojas is forming every day, every moment. But that ojas is the pure essence of all bodily tissue. And that comes to the heart. And then it becomes perojas, superojas, which nourishes consciousness. And then inferior ojas, which is circulating throughout the body, it maintains psychoneuroimmunological response. So, this is very important. Ojas is maintaining cellular immunity. Tejas is cellular intelligence.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  And pran is a flow of communication, the flow of intelligence. So, ojas, tejas, pran, they are operating at the level of RNA, DNA, according to Ayurveda, pirupak and pitarak. But ojas... On physical level, but in spiritual level, ogas become aura. Your body is neuro-electrical energy field. And that ogas goes to each chakra. Guladhara, Swadishthana, Manipura, Anahata, Vishudhan, Ajnaya. And all chakra system, the ogas become color spectrum. That's why root chakra has a red color. Second chakra has an orange color. Third chakra has a yellow color.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Heart chakra has a green color, blue, indigo and violet. So this chakra, the ogas stage of pran with their frequency, they become color spectrum of the chakra system. And then root chakra has a grounding feeling. Second chakra has a wonderful feeling of procreation. Third chakra is a power and digestion is a power. But leadership come from the Manipura. Anahata is a meeting point of lover meet with the beloved. And throat chakra is a communication, inner person meet with the outer person. And third, alpha meet with the omega, language is finished.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  And then crown chakra, Jiva, meet with Shiva. But this is all the meeting point of the chakra system. So chakra system is very profound and we can do chakra healing through Ayurvedic merma therapy and color therapy.

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• 57:51Speaker 03

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• 58:21André Duqum?

  There is this quote from your book I actually want to pull. "A person with strong ogas is attractive with lustrous eyes and a spontaneous and calming smile. Such an individual is full of spiritual energy and power. Spiritual practices and celibacy enhance these qualities in the individual."

• 58:38Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 58:40André Duqum?

  I think anybody who's checking in and listening right now know people in their life that have this calming, assuring, powerful presence about them. And the last sentence there was referring to the sexual energy and how to come into right relationship with that. And so what is the link between ogas, what people call semen retention now on the men's side of things? And what is like, how does one properly relate to that aspect of themself so that it doesn't rule them, so that they can continue to cultivate more ogas?

• 59:19Speaker 00

  That's very good. Because when a person observes celibacy, then shukra in the man and in the woman arthavah, they build ogas. And ogas can be depleted because of too much sexual activity.

• 59:38André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 59:38Speaker 00

  Ogas can be displaced by too much emotional reaction, fear, anger, anxiety. So one should protect the ogas they just pran. And for protection of ogas they just pran, there are specific pranayama. They do pranayama, anulom, nulom, kapalabhati, brahmarhi, ujjayi, uddhgeet, shidali, shidkari. All these are wonderful pranayama. And then while doing pranayama, you can do mula bandha, the sucking the anus in like a female horse. Then udyanabandha, which is called chinla, and jalandarbandha, cheek lock. And this diaphragmatic bandha is udyanabandha.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  And that will help the awakening of kundalini shakti. So kundalini shakti is anil, anilatmika. Anil is agni, and anila means pran. Agni and pran create intense kundalini shakti. Therefore, your ogas nourishes kundalini.

• 1:00:42Speaker 00

  Tejas make the kundrini to rise up and prana create meeting of lower self with the higher self. So finally, the end product of ojas tejas pran is serpentine energy kundrini and that passes along the chakrasista system from muladhara to sahasrara. So we should protect our ojas tejas pran by eating proper diet. Kshoganda, balabhidari, chavan pras, they promote ojas. Even almond drink, almond milk, very important. And taking certain herbal ghee, like ashwagandha ghee, balaghee, they promote ojas. But tejas can be improved by concentration, by meditation, by mantra.

• 1:01:27Speaker 00

  And there is a certain agni sarkriya, which is very important for tejas. Hmm. And uh, ojas, tejas and pran. Pran can be supported with the sahitakumbhak pranayama. But most important to nourish the prana is kevalikumbhaka. Kevalikumbhaka is natural suspension of breath. So when you pay attention to the breath and after inhalation, but before exhalation, there is a stop and stay in the stop at belly button. And when you exhale and after exhalation, dwadashanta, twelve digit prana comes out and there is a second gap.

• 1:02:10Speaker 00

  In that gap, if you stay there, this will amazingly strengthen the pran. So ojas tejas pran, these are the vital essence of ojas, the essence of kapha, tejas, the essence of pitta, and pran is the essence of vada. So vada, pitta, kapha at higher level become ojas tejas pran. And that is a very interesting, because ayurveda and yoga go together. They are concurrent and inherent sister science, so they help together. Hmm. And that is one of the beautiful thing about this. And then ayurveda says that dharm, artha, karma, moksha.

• 1:02:52Speaker 00

  Dharm, the righteous duty, artha, the monetary success, karma, the fulfillment of positive desire. And moksha is enlightenment, is possible through ayurveda and yoga.

• 1:03:05André Duqum?

  Through the cultivation of ogas, is that what you say?

• 1:03:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, cultivation of ogas.

• 1:03:09André Duqum?

  And then what happens when somebody cultivates it for years or decades and they have experiences, you know, like these awakening experiences? What, what do you make of those moments? And what like the purpose of this rising energy is like leading us to?

• 1:03:25Speaker 00

  Really, when ogas, tajas, pran are balanced, then you are in meditation. The whole life become meditation. The way you look, the way you walk, the way you listen become meditation. Look at the beautiful bird, the lovely blue sky, the tree, the mountain. Everything, in that looking, there is no looker. In that listening, there is no listener. In that experiencing, there is no experiencer. This state is a choiceless passive awareness as Jayakrishnamurti talks a great deal about that. That happens through panchakarma, through meditation.

• 1:04:06André Duqum?

  Would you say that person would then exude like a satvika energy?

• 1:04:10Speaker 00

  That is a very pure satvika, shuddha satva, pure satva.

• 1:04:15André Duqum?

  So you can look at through anyone's behaviors and mental actions and say whether it's rajas or satvika or tamas?

• 1:04:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is, just by looking at the person, you can understand. Even ogas, tajas, pran can be evaluated like prakruti. This is very important. And person with rajasi clavity, rajasi quality has a hyper pran. Tamasi plavity is very dull ogas. So our behavior are also intimately connected to the ratio of ogas, tajas, pran. And that's why when this ogas, tajas, prans are in balance, then observer, observation, and the thing to be observed become one. This is the unified field of consciousness. In that oneness, there is a great deal of joy, great deal of beauty.

• 1:05:07Speaker 00

  Then you become universal existence. Then you are no more individual. Individual become indivisible, totally undivided, one with the cosmos.

• 1:05:20André Duqum?

  For people that want to cultivate more of like a satvika lifestyle, to be able to cultivate that energy within themselves, what do you see as American society, Western culture, the most predominant?

• 1:05:33André Duqum?

  Like activities that are not in alignment with that, that are causing more Rajas and how would you support people and recommend people like more implement these satvic lifestyle behaviors?

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  You know, I travel all over the world. I go to the India, then go to England, Germany. There is nothing like America. People are very open, very spiritual. And day by day, American people, in general, they are following spiritual path.

• 1:06:08André Duqum?

  Interesting.

• 1:06:08Speaker 00

  Many people are doing meditation, contemplation, they are doing satsang, kirtan. So this is a very good positive thing. And this is a practical country. They want to do everything boiled down to the practical level, which is very important. And Iyrvid is also practical. Iyrvid wants to bring spirituality into daily clinical observation. And we are doing the same thing. So I think anything which happens here in America, it influences the whole world. You know, since last forty years I am here. And when Iyrvid become popular in America, it become popular in India.

• 1:06:50Speaker 00

  This is very interesting. That's why my guru told you should go to the America, teach these people Iyrvid, and then Iyrvid will be accepted in India. This is sad part, but it is the fact, because anything happens here, it influences the whole world. Because in the true sense, America is the nucleus of creativity. This country has a great potential, great spirituality, great materialism. And everything is great, even nuclear power is great.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

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• 1:07:53Speaker 04

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• 1:08:23André Duqum?

  What a... So you came here almost 40 years ago.

• 1:08:27Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 1:08:28André Duqum?

  And that was... That was a big move for you.

• 1:08:31Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 1:08:33André Duqum?

  So you moved and you guys eventually created the Ayurvedic Institute.

• 1:08:37Speaker 00

  Correct, correct.

• 1:08:38André Duqum?

  And then, over the past many decades, you've been building, writing your books, training practitioners.

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  Writing book, doing seminar, doing teaching.

• 1:08:48André Duqum?

  Yeah. And now this is your home.

• 1:08:51Speaker 00

  The whole world is my home. I feel homely in India also. I feel homely in England also. And when I'm coming here, I feel like a home. It is the love, the friend, who are very loving, compassionate. They make the whole environment like a home. And I have many good friends, both in East and West, as well as in India, England, America, here.

• 1:09:16André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:17Speaker 00

  And it is the friend who they are very loving, compassionate. So it is like a home here.

• 1:09:24André Duqum?

  The Ayurvedic way of understanding life, of like the science of living and also death, I think is very fascinating and how it is different from how I personally understood life growing up. There is this increasingly popular conception of longevity, escape velocity. As you've heard, people think with the advent of AI and what's coming with the technologies to be able to basically keep living longer beyond our natural death point. And I'm curious what an Ayurvedic perspective says on death and this idea that we might actually beat aging.

• 1:10:03Speaker 00

  Wonderful, beautiful. This is really the crux, the cream, the core of Ayurved. Living and dying should go together. There is no life without death and there is no death without life. Life and death, these are the two sides of the same coin. And we have to learn the art of dying. That's why we teach the people how to die. Just do soham meditation. Inhale with soham. Exhale with hum. So there are two stops. When you inhale, soham, it goes to the belly button.

• 1:10:48Speaker 00

  Stay there for a while. And when you exhale, hum comes out. And dwadashanta, twelve digits. When you stay in the stop, in the beginning, that stop is only for a fraction of second. But slowly, slowly, when you watch the breath and inhale with soham, hum, then gap enhances. Easily, when you practice like 10 minutes in the morning, 10 minutes in the afternoon, 10 minutes in the evening and 10 minutes on the bed before you go to sleep, and a stage will come. You can easily stay in the gap

• 1:11:31Speaker 00

  up to 30 seconds. Half a minute. In that half a minute... You live without breath. There is no breath. You live without thought. There is no thought in that gap. There is no mind. No time. So there is no mind, no time, no thought, no feeling, no emotion. It is just empty. We call this an empty bowl. You become like an empty bowl.

• 1:12:03Speaker 00

  And death is emptiness, complete emptiness. So when you practice this dying,

• 1:12:11Speaker 00

  you reborn every night.

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  You will be reincarnated, not next life, but next breath. You'll be reincarnated. Every breath is a new breath. Every thought is a new thought. Every inspiration is a new inspiration. So, that's why in India, if somebody is dead, we say he is expired. So expiration is the death. Inspiration is reborn again. So, death and dying should go together. This is on physical level. On psychological level, I have to die to the unwanted,

• 1:12:53Speaker 00

  unhappy, sad past. Past is dead. We should live in the eternal present, not to live in the dead past, not to live in the future. Our future is modified past. So, dying and living go together. You can live long. My grandpa, he lived for hundred and five. But his bhajan, he was chanting vittala, vittala, vittala. And one stage will come, he will just say vittala, and he will enter into complete suspension of breath.

• 1:13:28Speaker 00

  Through that holy name of Lord Krishna, vittala, he was practicing dying.

• 1:13:35Speaker 00

  And death is a friend. In the death, there is a rejuvenation, living is a renewal. And you are reborn again.

• 1:13:43André Duqum?

  Hmm.

• 1:13:43Speaker 00

  So, Iirva talks a great deal about bring the death pretty close. Don't push death. Bring the death, die to the yesterday. Die to the morning. Live eternally with this moment during afternoon. So, moment to moment awareness is moment to moment dying to the past and reborn again to the prajna.

• 1:14:09André Duqum?

  Hmm.

• 1:14:10Speaker 00

  And this is a very profound thing that Iirva teaches us through the soham. And the name of this foundation is soham.

• 1:14:21André Duqum?

  Yeah, it's very fitting.

• 1:14:22Speaker 00

  Very, very pretty, very pretty. Because soham is not a mantra, it is a cosmic vibration. Sohkaare antarayati, hankaare bahippuna. Soham, soham, ham saha. Jivo ujapati saroda. Every living creature, every living being, they are chanting this soham, soham through breath. But they don't know. But if you pay attention to the soham, then you are bringing death close to you. When you exhale hum, you are dying to the hum. And when you inhale soh, you are reborn again with a new, fresh, eternal breath.

• 1:15:02André Duqum?

  If somebody lives an extremely healthy life, what is the natural age one? What's like the natural human lifespan if it's really healthy throughout?

• 1:15:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, actually, it should be beyond ninety-five, hundred. Even you can live for hundred and ten, hundred and twenty.

• 1:15:17André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Speaker 00

  That's quite possible. Then death become your habit. And then you can postpone the death. My guru postponed that date two times. We thought he's there, we carry him to the cremation. And there he wake up. He said, "I was in blissful state and you think that I'm dead." So, this is very interesting. You can go into the samadhi. Samadhi is dying while living.

• 1:15:45André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:46Speaker 00

  This is very profound.

• 1:15:47André Duqum?

  I think that for a lot of those folks that maybe don't have a spiritual conception or thought, experience, belief, and something coming after this physical life ends, then it's like, okay, I want to extend it as much as possible. And with the advent of all the technologies that are going to be coming out to extend life, some people think that we'll actually be able to live forever.

• 1:16:08Speaker 00

  Beautiful.

• 1:16:11André Duqum?

  But you think, is that, is that a silly, immature perspective on, on life?

• 1:16:18Speaker 00

  Correct. No, everything has a right place, you know? And you can live as long as you want, but live just to, just to help, just to serve, just to, to existence, because we have to serve for the existence. And existence is everywhere. That eternal present is very beautiful. And in that sense, we, whatever we learn, we should share. Sharing and caring is the glory of life.

• 1:16:53André Duqum?

  I agree. I agree. What do you make of the wellness industry, which has become over, you know, it's going to be a $10 trillion industry by 2029? And what a lot of these practices and diet and lifestyle interventions that are simple and have profound effects have been largely like co-opted with yoga pants and smoothies. And I'm curious what you think of all these health fads that come and go when there's this timeless wisdom of how to live in proper relationship with their own body and constitution. What do you make of that industry?

• 1:17:24Speaker 00

  That's very wonderful sharing. In America, every, everything is business. Even meditation become business, giving mantra become business, even spirituality is quite a business.

• 1:17:40Speaker 00

  Apart from, because there's nothing wrong in that, making business. But what is important, as you are making business, give the core, the crux, the cream of reality to the people. And make them stand on their own feet. They will not carry anybody's crutches. They are totally independent. They stand on their feet. They take care of their health through the proper diet, lifestyle, and rejuvenation program. Then that's why we teach domestic panchakarma, because people can do this panchakarma at home. That's a very glory. Then sometime their life is so busy, they have no time to come here, stay here for a week or two.

• 1:18:25Speaker 00

  So they can carry panchakarma at home. And we have special detox program, just detox your liver, detox your brain, detox your heart. So this way, we are detoxifying those toxic organ. And that is the first step to the reality, first step to the spirituality. And spirituality is cleansing, cleansing the body, cleansing the mind, cleansing the organ, and doing domestic panchakarma through diet. Just do Keshadi Phas. And amazing, that Keshadi Phas will, again it will unfold the clarity of perception.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

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• 1:19:28Speaker 03

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• 1:19:58André Duqum?

  For those that are householders, which almost certainly everyone who's tuning in right now is, in my own life, and we have this inner yearning for realization of self, how important is, is it dinacharya? How important is a daily practice?

• 1:20:12Speaker 00

  Dinacharya is very important because if we wake up at a particular time, like say about 5 o'clock in the morning, then brush your teeth, scrape your tongue, drink warm water, sit in a cross leg posture, facing the east, do kapada bhati, basrika, anulom, milom, ujjayi, ujjgi, shitali, shitkari, do soham, amazing. And I'm enjoying that. My whole family is doing that. And then they are taking shower, they do their yogic practice, then shower, then have a little breakfast. So this way, if we do everything like a dinacharya, then it will bring circatic rhythm of the

• 1:20:54Speaker 00

  hormones in my brain, serotonin, melatonin, acetylcholine, dopamine, they will secret at a proper time. And your brain will become a dynamo of energy. You never lose your energy. That's why dinacharya is a discipline, discipline of biochemistry. At a proper time, you secret your hydrochloric acid, pepsin, renin, gastric intensity factor, and you are greatly hungry and you enjoy the food. So if we bring rhythm in that, if our day-to-day life is erratic, then it will create depression, sadness, and all those things.

• 1:21:36Speaker 00

  So to increase the bio rhythm, we need dinacharya, rutucharya, and daily regime, seasonal regimen, and also diet changes. So this is a very beautiful rhythm. To bring bio rhythm into the body mind and consciousness, we need dinacharya, the daily routine. And that daily routine is wonderful cell discipling.

• 1:22:04André Duqum?

  So what would be a great example of what that would be in someone's life? So wake up before sunrise, scrape the tongue, do your practices. What else throughout the day do you think is like really important to maintain consistency on bedtime?

• 1:22:21Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah. You can just as we just shared with you in the morning that we should wake up early morning and go to the sunlight. And when sunlight fall on the forehead on the retina, it will stimulate pineal gland to release serotonin. And serotonin is very important for clarity of perception. It's a pleasure hormone. So likewise, we have proper time for lunch, proper time for dinner. And also, we have certain routine at night. Before you go to the bed, just rub oil to the soles of the feet and scalp.

• 1:22:56Speaker 00

  Oil is very important. If you just rub oil to the bottom of the feet and the scalp, then put on your old song that you will not fall into the bathroom. That is a very important disclaimer we have to tell these people. And if we do this routine at night, then sit before you go to the bed, sit. And I always says, drink a cup of warm milk with ashwagandha or warm milk with turmeric. Turmeric is becoming popular. Turmeric and nim can control the blood sugar. Turmeric is wonderful medicine. And if you drink turmeric with milk, oh, it will balance, it will release melatonin, you will sleep like a baby.

• 1:23:39Speaker 00

  And these are also routine given at the bedtime. Lunchtime is different routine. So our life is totally surrendered to the almighty.

• 1:23:50André Duqum?

  We talked about the doshas earlier, but likewise, the day has certain times that correspond to different elements. Could you share a bit of that?

• 1:23:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, the whole biological clock and chronological clock, they are connected. Kuna no jis time, sun rising, sunset. So dawn and dusk is vata dosha, early morning. Then early morning and early evening is kapha dosha. Midday, midnight is pitthu dosha. So this is a biological clock in relation to the chronological time.

• 1:24:25Speaker 00

  And that's why Iirva talks so greatly about this, that it is good to do exercise in the morning during kapha time. People do exercise at midday, jogging, jumping, that's wrong. Iirva says, if you do run at midday time, you will disturb your pitta. So this is a very interesting thing that we should work in harmony with the biological time and chronological time.

• 1:24:51André Duqum?

  Yeah, it seems like with everything that you're sharing in the Iirvadic system, there's a cycle and a rhythm to life that we're honoring that we normally have not been. Do you, if you zoom out further, you know, from the microcosm of our biology and the cycles we have to the cycles around us within light and the 24 hour clock with the sun. If you zoom out further, do you see these larger cycles within humanity?

• 1:25:14Speaker 00

  Of course, that's very true. The larger time we call yoga.

• 1:25:21André Duqum?

  Yogas.

• 1:25:22Speaker 00

  This, this is a Kali yoga. About 10,000 years, the yoga changes. The Kriya yoga, Treta yoga, Dwapar yoga, Kali yoga, this is a very cosmic time. But also, the time is a movement. Time is becoming. And time is a change. So, within living in the, this time, we should enter into the timeless zone. While living in the time, you can enjoy the timeless zone. And that timeless zone is very important, as I shared with you, the gap between the two, right, the gap between the two thoughts.

• 1:26:01Speaker 00

  Then you enjoy the time and you are resting in that gap so that time enter into the timeless zone of bliss and peace.

• 1:26:10André Duqum?

  Sign me up. So what do you say then, the Kali yoga is ending now? Like what, what do we see?

• 1:26:17Speaker 00

  They say that Kali yoga is ending, this is a very, maybe next century, Kali yoga is gone and you will have wonderful Satya yoga again. That is what they are saying.

• 1:26:28André Duqum?

  What do you make of the time we find ourselves in? Like humanity in this time, entering the 24th century with these advent of technology and AI and all this, I'm curious, what, what is your perspective on what's happening?

• 1:26:40Speaker 00

  This is very beautiful. I learned from my guru Maharaj. He said, all four yogas are within me. Mean everyone.

• 1:26:52Speaker 00

  Kritha, Truta, Dwapar and Kaliyuga. Kaliyuga is a time of Kala. Kala means art, music, even computer. It's a great thing. Kaliyuga is not bad.

• 1:27:08Speaker 00

  So, when you do certain pranayama, when you inhale with soul and hold the breath, then belly button is very important. That belly button is Kaliyuga.

• 1:27:29Speaker 00

  Then, when you hold the breath into the heart, that is Kritha Yuga, Trata Yuga, Dwapar Yuga and Satya Yuga. So, crown chakra is Satya Yuga.

• 1:27:45Speaker 00

  Then Krishna Dwapar Yuga come here. So, Kritha, Truta, Dwapar and Kalii. So, in chakru system, when you hold your breath at a different level of chakra, you are surpassing those Kalii or Yuga. The 10,000 years approximately we say, but there is a mathematical calculation and that varies according to the time zone. So, we can raise our consciousness from belly button to the sahasrara.

• 1:28:29Speaker 00

  And Sri Arbindo says, "Go above the physical brain, 448 to 10 years." Purusha Subhtha says, "Sahasrashirashaha Purushaha, Sahasrakshaha Sahasrapada." So, that thousand-headed Purusha is everywhere. And Atthattistadashangulam, "Above the physical brain, 448 and 210." If you bring your consciousness here. You are in beyond yoga.

• 1:29:04André Duqum?

  Hmm.

• 1:29:05Speaker 00

  And that yoga is a, it is a super satya yoga. He calls supra mental state. Above the physical brain. That which is true on spiritual level in spiritual term must be equally true on physical level in physical term. So, this is another concept. And through meditation, you can go from Kali yoga to the satya yoga.

• 1:29:35André Duqum?

  Hmm.

• 1:29:37Speaker 00

  And this is a breath and breath meditation is very important. Even I am sitting here, I am doing soham meditation. Inhale with so, exhale with hum. And in gap, I listen to you. And in gap, I give the answer to this. Therefore, our communication is, though it is physical, but it is moving to the different dimension of spiritual awakening.

• 1:30:01André Duqum?

  Hmm.

• 1:30:02Speaker 00

  So this is wonderful. So, time is a movement of prana.

• 1:30:08Speaker 00

  And Kali yoga, treta yoga, dvapahar yoga, satya yoga. This is a cosmic time. And cosmic time is happening at every moment in our breath cycle.

• 1:30:22André Duqum?

  Hmm. It feels like it keeps coming back to relationship. Relationship between mind, body, breath, life.

• 1:30:28Speaker 00

  Hmm hmm.

• 1:30:29André Duqum?

  And of course, the humans around us and our friends and family. It seems like right now, because we do live in a time that is very individualistic and very divisive, that proper relationships are needed now more than ever. So I'm curious, as you spent your past forty years coming out to the West and building these relationships, just in your own words, what is the power of relationship been for you in your life?

• 1:30:56Speaker 00

  That's very important. First, I have to improve my own relationship with my body, with my mind, with my thought and with my daily perception.

• 1:31:10Speaker 00

  Because in relationship, there is a need of communication. When two individuals are speaking together at the same level of consciousness, there is a wonderful communication. So, in order to improve the clarity of communication, we have to learn the art of listening, art of looking. Look at your partner with a fresh eyes, not yesterday's eyes, not what last two weeks ago, what she said to me. I have to live in the eternal present.

• 1:31:54Speaker 00

  And in this eternal present, there is a wonderful flow of communication. And we should forgive whatever has happened in the dead past. Because I always give this example to my students. If your wife said to you, "You are a nut last week", and that nut is hurting like a bolt. And today she says, "Honey, I love you." So, suddenly that nut comes there. They say, "Oh, I know you love me. Sometimes you love me, but sometimes you call me nut." And their quarrels start again. So, we should not bring the dead past in our present relationship. We should live in the eternal present. Then the relationship is definitely going to heal. Relationships are helping.

• 1:32:39Speaker 00

  And at the same time, we can use the relationship as the mirror. And in the mirror of relationship, we can watch our thought, watch our feeling, watch our emotion. That's great. And that exactly I'm doing in my day-to-day relationship with everyone. And it works. It's a beautiful thing. But the relationships are not for judging the person. Relationships are for self-knowing, self-learning. And for that, we should have very healthy, happy, clear relationship, so that we can understand one another. And in that understanding, there is a sharing and caring and loving.

• 1:33:22André Duqum?

  So beautifully said. I feel like definitely in my past, I've become aware the times I'm viewing relationship through my own prejudice and colored tinted glasses, not actually being effectively in communication and relationship with other individuals. If you had a last message for individuals to develop that clarity within themselves, like you mentioned, building that relationship with yourself is the most important. That way you can really be in relationship with other people, not just through a tinted glass. So much of the world right now is teaching self-knowledge through just the intellect. And I'm curious, what does self-knowledge truly mean to you?

• 1:34:03André Duqum?

  If you had 60 seconds for one last message to everybody who's listening right now.

• 1:34:08Speaker 00

  When I'm looking at you, I feel I'm you and you are me. That who is looking through my eyes, same thing is looking through your eyes. In reality, though we are two individuals, it is the same awareness, same perception is operating, and that's the beauty of it. When I look at the tree, I feel I'm the tree. When I look at the cloud, I feel I'm the cloud. I'm that mountain. And suddenly, the distance between me and the mountain disappears.

• 1:34:50Speaker 00

  Me and the tree disappear, me and you disappear. I'm you, you are me. This is very serious thing that if we put into our day-to-day life, our day-to-day living, then there is no conflict. Conflict begins when there is a separation, when I become the observer and you become the object, then there is judgment, criticism, like dislike, all these things happen. We have to bring unified field in our daily perception. Look so closely that I'm you, you are me. That's beautiful.

• 1:35:31André Duqum?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:35:35Speaker 00

  Oh, it's so cool.

• 1:35:35André Duqum?

  Yeah, the rain came in.

• 1:35:38Speaker 00

  Rain came in, huh?

• 1:35:39André Duqum?

  That was a great close to it, though. Thank you so much.

• 1:35:42Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 1:35:42André Duqum?

  Yeah, thank you. And for everybody that's tuning into this episode, thank you so much. Let us know which ways this was impactful for you. And until next time, be well.