E157 - Ky Dickens: “These Kids Are Telepathic!” This Reframes Consciousness Forever

In this episode, we dive into the groundbreaking research behind The Telepathy Tapes—a project exploring the mysterious, often misunderstood phenomenon of telepathy. Ky Dickens unpacks the origins of the series and reveals a the scientific breakthroughs that challenge the boundaries of what we think is possible. We explore how consciousness, connection, and even love may play a role in how information is shared beyond words. From studies on animal communication to dream-based exchanges, this conversation opens the door to a deeper understanding of our inherent connectedness—and why telepathy may be just the beginning. Unlock your brain’s full potential FREE for 30 days by going to https://go.brain.fm/knowthyself Go to https://boncharge.com/knowthyself and use coupon code KNOWTHYSELF to save 15% Andrés Book Recs: https://www.knowthyselfpodcast.com/book-list ___________ 0:00 Intro 2:15 The Mystery of Savant Syndrome 7:02 How the Telepathy Tapes Came to Be 11:25 New Breakthrough in Studying Telepathy 19:25 Modern Science Limits this Research 26:20 The Paradox of Studying the Invisible 35:18 Ad: Brain.fm 36:25 Consciousness & Our Inherent Connectedness 41:50 Studying Telepathy in Animals 46:29 How Information Travels Between People 51:01 Ad: Boncharge Redlight Therapy 52:43 The Power of Love & Encouragement 1:02:24 "Telepathy is Just the Tip of the Iceberg..." 1:11:02 This Man Communicates through Dreams 1:15:15 Addressing Doubts Around This Research 1:21:17 We ALL Have the Potential for Telepathy 1:26:02 Surrender Made the Telepathy Tapes Possible 1:34:15 Conclusion ___________ Episode Resources: https://thetelepathytapes.com https://www.kydickens.com/ https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/ https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/ https://www.youtube.com/@knowthyselfpodcast https://www.knowthyselfpodcast.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Every single person, I think, who works with a non-speaker with autism will say telepathy is the tip of the iceberg. That is the thing you hear over and over and over again. So many of the families who have a non-speaker are already fighting a war on so many fronts. Doctors tell the families when they're little, they'll never speak. There's often the sense that this individual is locked inside. Well, what's happened is that some families take a chance. The telepathy, the sense that something is going on, the mind reading has been there all along, but spelling gives you a way to validate it. It feels so out there. The only reason I can say it out loud is because it's happened so often. All truth goes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is finally opposed. Third, it's accepted as self-evident.

• 0:39André Duqum?

  Where are we at on that spectrum here?

• 0:42Speaker 00

  At the simplest form, truly being present and loving someone and sitting with them and believing in them, that you are competent, you are in there. I don't care what the doctors are telling me that you're not. I don't believe them. That changes lives. It changes what you're capable of, and it also can turn on these gifts.

• 1:05André Duqum?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Know Thyself. Our guest today is an award-winning documentarian who is known for tackling complex social issues. And last year, in 2024, she created something called The Telepathy Tapes, which, if you haven't heard, has been a sort of a cultural zeitgeist and is very exciting. It's exploring the complexed inner dimension of nonverbal autistic children and goes fast beyond into challenging our paradigm and notion of consciousness and what this life and reality really fundamentally is. Kai Dickens, thank you for being here.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  Absolutely. It's a pleasure. And your beautiful studio that I'm jealous of.

• 1:44André Duqum?

  Yeah, we got to help you for season two, season three, maybe?

• 1:47Speaker 00

  We're going to level up here and do visuals, coming in the next year or so.

• 1:51André Duqum?

  Your audio is clean, though. It's been such a joy to dive into the studies, the season one of Telepathy Tapes. And it is something that I've just heard. So, I mean, you've probably heard this so much, but it's just been so culturally talked about. And, you know, it's so exciting to feel a collective sense of awe and wonder about what life is again for so many people. I thought a cool gateway drug, so to speak, into this whole world could be speaking about savant children, savant syndrome.

• 2:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:22André Duqum?

  As this has been well documented and known and validated for decades. And so.

• 2:30André Duqum?

  For people that don't know, what is Savant Syndrome? And what have been a couple of interesting examples of it that you've seen?

• 2:35Speaker 00

  Sure, yeah. Savant Syndrome is basically a case where someone has an unbelievable knowledge or, you know, expertise around something that they haven't really ever been exposed to, or maybe haven't been taught in a really formal way. So there's different types of math, like Savant's calendar computation, art, language, music, math. Those are kind of the most known Savants. We're actually doing a whole episode on Savants in season two that aren't non-speakers, which we'll talk about in a second. And some of the most fascinating Savants to me are acquired Savants, which are people

• 3:15Speaker 00

  who have an accident or are hit on the head, something, you know, tragic happens.

• 3:21André Duqum?

  Lightning strike.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. And after the accident, they have an unbelievable ability that wasn't there before. So, you know, I don't want to, you know, I'm not going to say his name quite yet, but in season two, we spent some time interviewing a man who was hit on the head after leaving work one day. You know, he was mugged, and after that, he could see math everywhere. And it was unbelievable because the math was really informing him of knowledge around the universe, and he had such a complex understanding. And a lot of the equations that all of a sudden he was aware of, he could draw. Like, he understood how the equation would look if he could make it physical.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  And so he was drawing all these pictures. He started taking many, many calculus classes, and almost no one could keep up with him and what he was saying until AI came around. And he started teaching AI these formulas and what he was seeing around the world, and it was spitting back the pictures that he had been drawing. So it was very clear that what he was gathering was correct. And it's fascinating because it really, for me, it explores, well, what is consciousness if you could have a head injury and you're suddenly capable of something you weren't prior? And so I think how this goes full circle into the non-speakers with the unbelievable spiritual gifts that we explore in the telepathy tapes is many, you know, there's been a few

• 4:49Speaker 00

  scientists, starting with Bernie Rimlin, later on with Dr. Diane Hennessy-Powell, who've said, "Look..." ESP, you know, extrasensory perception is something you don't have, you shouldn't have access to. You have been taught very much like other savant skills. Why don't we consider this a savant skill instead of shunning it or saying it sounds so silly? Because science overwhelmingly has accepted other savant skills. They don't know how they come to be. They don't know why they come to be. It's a mystery, yet it's not something that we dismiss. We say, okay, there's a big question mark here, but it's really happening. So the thought is, should ESP, which ESP is something like precognition, telepathy, remote viewing, be considered a savant skill as well?

• 5:31André Duqum?

  It's interesting, living in a culture that really values the intellect and logic as the premier source of intelligence. And it can be hard to externally validate someone's internal experience. But when you have these examples of kids like Daniel, which I think you referred to in the telepathy tapes, that can recite over 22,500 decimal points of pi without error. And Ramsey, who can speak or read over eight languages at the age of two. And these immense musical capabilities, like it's clearly, it rewrites our notion of what is information and how can we have access to it? Instead of this top down way of learning that we're used to. And it just, I think it really does open up exploring, okay,

• 6:16André Duqum?

  we don't know what this is. We can use labels and terms and words to, to, you know, kind of understand what these different things are. But then as it translates to diving deeper into your work with the telepathy tapes and exploring these various studies and examples of non-speaking autistic children that are displaying very similar things and ESP capabilities. And, yeah, we have a lot to dive into. So as it translates and you started exploring and finding this work, I would love for you just to take us back a little bit to the moment when you first started to discover that this was more widespread than we think it is. And then, you know, going into your first study or example.

• 6:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:59André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, you know, I first heard about this whole world through a podcast where Dr. Diane Hennessy-Powell was featured, talking about the work she'd previously done testing non-speakers with autism and finding that they could seemingly read their parents' or teacher's mind. And she would put a partition up. The parent would be on one side, or the teacher, whoever, and was being shown a number, a word, a fake word. And on the other side of the partition, the non-speaker was able to accurately, and very, very high accuracy, like above 97% type with the person was seeing. And she'd done multiple tests, and you know, she had been educated Harvard and, you know, Johns Hopkins, I mean, or, you know, Johns Hopkins was where she was educated.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  She taught at Harvard, like she was a real scientist. And I was fascinated. So, you know, I contacted her, and she introduced me to a fresh family, someone she had never tested before. And I was very skeptical and wanted to really kind of be in charge of the test. I found the space, I booked the crew, I bought the cues, I set up, you know, downloaded the random number generator. And we did the first test, and it was mind-boggling. And this was a new speller that we were testing, so she was still in the phase of spelling, where she had to have a little bit of touches on her shoulder, her head. And I don't think anyone in the room would say, oh, yeah, there's Morse code happening between someone and her. But Dr. Powell was like, it will never hold up for science just because of a touch, so go see this other young individual who's not touched at all.

• 8:29Speaker 00

  Akil. Akil, who can spell independently into a iPad across the room. And after seeing that, I think I, my mind was absolutely blown wide open. So I started reaching out to families and putting up my own inquiries around the internet and, and just diving deep into this and finding there had been many books written about this. And they were, you know, not very popular on Amazon, because, you know, no one really knew about this, this phenomenon. But there had been many, many books, there had been articles, this has been reported for a long time. I was introduced to a teacher in Wisconsin who had been videotaping this phenomenon 30 years ago, sending out VHS tapes to, you know, scientists, saying, can you please

• 9:14Speaker 00

  look at this? These children are able to accurately tell you what word I put on a Scrabble board from a different room, if I hold a color over their head, they can tell you what it is. And, and so I thought, my gosh, this is happening all over. It's Just no one's like really put the dots together. And then I think, you know, as you start to meet families and teachers who are experiencing this and kind of start to build trust, then they opened up their world further and further. Until I started realizing this is in England, this is in Israel, this is in India, this is in Africa, this is in Mexico. It was all over and it's widespread. And I think for me, when I started really talking to a lot of teachers and spelling communication

• 9:59Speaker 00

  partners who work with non-speaking individuals, almost every single one of them said, look, if you work with this population, you know this, it's just the best kept secret. Because it, who is going to believe it? It's so hard to believe. And so many of the families who have a non-speaker are already fighting a war on so many fronts. Like just, just for time, for care, for caregiving support, for respite care, for spelling to be legitimized in school, to have the assistance their kids need, their siblings need, that it's just like, bring telepathy into the mix, forget it. And, um, and I think it really became a love army. I mean, really of like, kind of building this world and, and everyone meeting each other and realizing their strength in numbers.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  And then letting this thing launch.

• 10:47André Duqum?

  You guys have done some studies recently that you haven't talked about. Would you like to hint at that just a bit? Because I think when people first initially see the videos of you doing these studies with Akil or any of the other individuals, uh, I mean, it's tough to think there's an inherent innocence there. Like that anything would be contrived, but there is that back part of our mind that's skeptical of like, maybe something's happening or there's some queuing, subconscious queuing, or who knows how it could happen. But lots of magic tricks happen that we don't know how they, how they unfold. And, uh, and so I think taking this even deeper on the scientific side to be able to really do these studies.

• 11:23André Duqum?

  Brings it to that point where it's self-evident.

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• 11:55Speaker 00

  So. Yeah, absolutely. So after the telepathy tapes, we, you know, we started making the documentary film, which was kind of always the point. It was to do documentary film first, but then the podcast came first and it worked out how it should. But so we are really deep into filming the documentary film. It's almost like production will be wrapped in August, which is exciting. And of course, we're following the storylines of some of these beautiful individuals and their families. But of course, the science storyline too.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  There was a Q E G specialist named Jeff Tarrant, and he witnessed the first few studies we did with Dr. Powell. They even did their own studies when I wasn't there. I was filming other stuff and he was just like, holy shit. What is happening here? So after what, after he saw what he saw, he kind of went on his own to try to innovate, like a different brain scanning software with a built in letter board that you could separate a parent and a student. And I think for him, you know, a parent and a child or whoever the telepathic pair was. So he's really started innovating this, but you know, he also realized in order to really get the science accredited, you had to work with like another, he had to work with another neuroscientist and best if it's not Dr. Powell, right? It should be someone peer reviewing and repeating.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  So we were being contacted by numerous neuroscientists after the telepathy tapes came out. And, and we started talking to some of them and there was a woman named Dr. Julia Mossbridge, who I really liked her ethos, you know? And I think she presumed competence, which was really important and understood these were individuals. And so she was like, I would love to get in touch with a, you know, maybe a teacher who has access to a lot of non-speakers and start doing some tests on my own, which is always scary because I'm like, I don't know who this woman is. I mean, she could be working for the CIA for all I know, like, you know, you never know. But she seemed wonderful and her past work was brilliant. And so it was like, okay. You know, just take a deep breath and just, okay, let science do its thing. And I just stayed out of it. These weren't individuals I've ever tested.

• 13:52Speaker 00

  And you know, Dr. Mossberg started reporting back from the field like, hi, we have a non speaker and their communication partner in one room, another non speaker and their communication partner in another room, no walls are touching, there's no audio, there's no way that this, there's gonna be anything. And she's like, and instead of just showing them numbers or words like you were, I'm trying to test some wisdom and show a video. And like the first video she showed a non speaker was, I think, was of that cocoa, the gorilla that learned sign language. And in the other room, the other non speaker started saying like, I see a pet and it looks hairy, it's kind of human like, it's a primate and it seems to know language. I mean, it was just like, there's no, it was the, the statistical opportunity for that to be chance is nil. And, and then they repeated it.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  And then the non speakers got a little dysregulated and they were done. And so I remember getting that phone call a few months ago, that they did it twice in a row. And I was like, that's huge. And I was like, can you repeat it? And try it with other kids. And the teacher this morning called me and said, I don't know if you've talked to Dr. Mossberg, but we've been doing more tests and we've repeated it over and over and over again with multiple kids from different rooms. Not just validating the telepathy, but validating the authorship that they are writing, these are their words. And, and I mean, I got that call this morning, which was so serendipitous that I'm here. And I mean, I just started crying because it's like, all the families, all these teachers, everyone knows it. And I think the skepticism of like, of course, that's to be, you know, it's gonna happen, of course, but I think was very harmful to some of the families who already have felt

• 15:21Speaker 00

  traumatized and not believed and to have the world being like, oh, we think you're faking these tests or like, making it up, non speaking individuals who have nothing to gain, you know, and their families who are just fighting tooth and nail every day to have a normal existence, like, aren't making it up. But to have that scientific validation is just everything. So now they were like, okay, you can come film it. And so that was the next big question is like, if we bring cameras into the room and people into the room, how is this gonna change it? But for science, it's, it's kind of over because now other scientists can come watch, anyone can come validate this. I mean, it's, they're doing it. But um, yeah, I mean, I want to film it big time. So that's our goal in August.

• 16:05André Duqum?

  We're living amidst a cultural revolution and evolution and paradigm in our perception of consciousness. And we can get into theories about all this, but just to make this again, just to reiterate it, these are various different studies you're doing, whether you're showing Uno cards, numbers on a screen, words that are, or video in certain cases that are exposed to the child's caretaker. And that study that you heard about this morning, or that they did, was the person their teacher or parent? Or was it somebody random?

• 16:38Speaker 00

  No, I mean, well, one of them was a teacher, and I think the other one was a just different teacher. So what's so great is most, every single student in her classroom, because I asked this, I said, who are they spelling with? And she's like, different people. Sometimes it's a sibling, it's a parent, it's one of us, it's a communication regulation partner who works at this clinic or this school. So that's great, because they're working with all different people. So they can replicate this regardless of who the communication regulation partner is in the room. That doesn't matter. Yeah. So it's really fascinating. Because what we've been doing to this point is having our partition between a speller and whoever they're telepathic with.

• 17:20André Duqum?

  Which a speller just is a catchall term for?

• 17:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. So the non-speaking individuals who, again, have the families and those who love non-speakers are often reporting not just telepathy, but other spiritual gifts. And so many of these non-speaking individuals, the doctors tell the families when they're little, you know, they'll never speak. They won't be smart above a three or four-year-old, you know, like, level. They kind of take away all hope. And there's often a sense that this individual's locked inside. Well, what's happened is that some families, thank God, like, take a chance and, you know, try to get their child unlocked by teaching them this technique called...

• 18:08Speaker 00

  With a casual term of spelling, which is pointing to letters on a letterboard. There's different types of methods. There's rapid prompting method, there's spelling to communicate, there's the speller's method. This is a catchall we've been saying is just the speller's method. And what's remarkable is, once the individual starts spelling, it takes a lot of time because you have to learn that the individuals who have this telepathic gift have usually something called a praxia, which is a mind-body disconnect. So you're trying to control your body. You have to learn the motor planning just to point. It can take a long time. But and once they are pointing and spelling things, it can take a long time to get something out. But it's often quite profound and beautiful and so magical to so many of these families is it's information that they, the family themselves

• 18:53Speaker 00

  didn't know. It could be the individual diagnosing themselves, you know, what they need. It could be some, anything, any interest that maybe the parents didn't know. They're one of the young individuals in the telepathy tapes named Houston. And when he first starts spelling, he recited the Gettysburg Address. And his mom is like, what is happening right now? Natalia, who's in our studio actually right now, she's become a great friend and her sister's a non-speaker and they're in the movie, but she's in LA right now. You know, she has a story about her sister recommending an herb to treat something that was going on in Natalia's body that turned out to be an herb Natalia didn't know about, but it was exactly what she needed to heal. And so, anyway, so spelling has become a way

• 19:37Speaker 00

  to unlock these individuals. And as almost every family I've met has said, is like, the telepathy, the sense that something is going on, the mind reading has been there all along, but spelling gives you a way to validate it.

• 19:49André Duqum?

  So telepathy can be kind of a catchall term for this big umbrella of these latent capabilities, like you spoke to, where it seems like they're reading someone's mind, but they're also in various different instances, having access to information and bi-locating or remote viewing, or like, there's a litany of different examples and capabilities that these children have. Before we go into why the theories of these individuals, as opposed to anyone else, would have more readily access to these capacities, I think it's important to just speak to the cultural, scientific paradigm of materialism and how pervasive that is. And then we'll start to

• 20:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:31André Duqum?

  Go from there. So I'm sure as you've started the telepathy tapes and you've gotten criticism or pushback, a lot of it is coming from this presupposed notion of how reality works.

• 20:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 20:45André Duqum?

  And so how do you explain it after facing it?

• 20:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I love that you ask that because I do think it's one of the most important takeaways for a lot of people from the telepathy tapes is just realizing we live in a paradigm. So a paradigm is, right, the rules that kind of right the world in which we live in. And for the past few hundred years, materialism, which is not wanting fancy purses and cars. Materialism in this case is this idea that what is real, it can be measured and observed. And so most of science, therefore, right, you can measure and observe it. So things that we can't measure and observe, therefore, have often been dismissed or even ridiculed or just rejected, you know? And that could be something as, you know, like God, right? You know, like, oh, that can't exist to something like ghosts, to something like telepathy.

• 21:33Speaker 00

  And if you believed in that stuff or studied it, you were often just considered completely foolish. And even if the data was coming back really remarkable, what they would often do is attack the scientist, not the data, or attack the institution who dared publish this quote unquote garbage or whatever. And it has been extraordinarily damaging to the point where there's a lack of funding to look into this type of thing. There's a lack of willingness to put your neck on the line if you are a scientist or researcher or a parent or teacher who is witnessing this every day all over the world.

• 22:12Speaker 00

  And so materialism has had a grip on all of us, not just by like what our, how our worldview has come together, but in what we feel we can talk about and still feel smart, right? Like, there is that thing that I think many people who are like, You know, I'm really smart and I listen to NPR and I could never say that I believe in God or that I believe in this, like I would feel foolish, or it just made people dumb or gullible or silly, or you can't be educated or well-read if you believe in this stuff. And what I wanted to do with the telepathy tapes is just drop the scales from people's eyes in a way and say, that is, this is happening to you. This is not the world you live in. This is the world you're being told you live in.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  And any real serious scientist would tell you, we don't know where consciousness comes from. We can't explain many, many things. We don't even, we can't explain what gravity is and where that comes from. So, and quantum physics has, I think, opened the door for people, which is the study of things that are very small and they are, and this, when we've been studying things extremely small, they're not obeying the same rules in which the rest of the world lives by. So, one of the major points, I just want to drop this and then it'll help everything else come to clarity for people, like, is that, you know, we talk about this in the telepathy tapes, that materialism, most of it's right, right? The idea like biology and physics and math and psychology and the ways that we understand

• 23:40Speaker 00

  our world are great. Like, we should not throw out the textbooks. But for so long, if you think of materialism like a pyramid and the base of this might be, right, like physics, and after that is chemistry and biology and psychology, at the tippy top of the pyramid was consciousness. And everyone's like, I don't know where it comes from. I can't explain why these other things happen too, like precognition or a dream where this happens, or this experience, or the thoughts someone had that their mom died and then they get the phone call, or, you know, no one could explain that stuff and no one could explain consciousness. So they just ignored it or dismissed it and ridiculed it. And that was that. And here's our theory of reality. And some scientists who really started looking into near-death experiences, let's say, that were, or...

• 24:23Speaker 00

  Or dared to study something like mediumship, or psychic abilities, or remote viewing, or telepathy, and saw this stuff bearing out. We're thinking, well, you have to account for this. It's bearing out. It's bearing out in the data. There has been multiple peer-reviewed studies showing that telepathy is occurring in many, many cases, neurotypical cases. And you can't just dismiss it. So we have to account for it. So many of these scientists said we need a post-materialist view of the world in which consciousness is not the top of the pyramid. It's on the bottom. And in that world, it means consciousness is fundamental. It comes before everything else. It means that everything is invisible, really, before it's physical. It's non-physical before it's physical. All of us, everything about our world.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  And if we start thinking about the world this way, there are no big question marks left. It accounts for everything. Things like telepathy, or a god, or precognition, or remote viewing. All of this can make sense, because if it's non-physical, we're all connected in this very non-physical way. So I think the telepathy, I think, was a big part of the telepathy tapes. But this post-materialist paradigm in which I would put my life on is going to be the right way of science. What, 200 years, everyone is like, yes, this is how science is. And the people clinging to the current paradigm, I think, are going to be on the wrong side of history.

• 25:46André Duqum?

  Yeah. That was great. Yeah, there's so many resources and great thinkers that are actively working on this. And some of them we've had on the show, like Donald Hoffman. Annika Harris is a great researcher around this. Federico Fagin, Philip Goff. And it's interesting, because we look at mystics and sages throughout time, and philosophy like Advaita Vedanta. And they speak to how the universe is mental and hermeticism. And now we're coming to this point where there actually is scientific understanding of the non-locality of consciousness, and exploring all these things. Have you heard of the philosophical kind of understanding of Hegel's dialectic?

• 26:24Speaker 00

  Mm-mm.

• 26:25André Duqum?

  It's great. So it's like, basically, very simply, you have a thesis, or like, sort of like a proposition, or an idea of a worldview. You have the antithesis, which is the opposition to that. And then you have the synthesis, which is a higher-order resolution of both ideas that preserve the truth of both independent things, but transcends the conflict. They see how they're

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• 27:19André Duqum?

  And so paradox in many ways is actually can be a signature of depth. It's not a failure of logic. And so when you look at materialism and you have these emerging studies of consciousness being perhaps more fundamental and we can go into different theories, it's easy just to say, oh, well, materialism is just wrong. It's like, no, from a perspective, it has its place. It's just not the whole story.

• 27:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 27:43André Duqum?

  And so I think what these studies that you're doing and emerging understanding of the scientific understanding of consciousness perhaps being a more fundamental constituent of nature is really important, I think, to highlight there, how multiple things can be true simultaneously.

• 28:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 28:01André Duqum?

  And Niels Bohr, who's one of the founders of quantum mechanics, also has a great quote around this, how he says, "The opposite of a fact is a falsehood, but the opposite of a profound truth may very well be another profound truth."

• 28:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:17André Duqum?

  And so it's just fascinating how two things can be mutually exclusive, context-dependent, both true.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:25André Duqum?

  And I think that's important when we have these conversations, to be able to have and balance seeming paradoxes, because it's pervasive throughout the universe.

• 28:34Speaker 00

  Right.

• 28:34André Duqum?

  And to be able to actually understand something, we need to be able to hold a balance of both.

• 28:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking about something, because, you know, we've talked a lot about this as we were gearing up to how to really test this well, you know, because when I was going around just trying to figure out proof of concept, do I spend my life for years looking into this? I was just doing tests on my own, you know, like it wasn't, but like, or, you know, filming Dr. Powell's, but we, you know, realized we have to like make this way more airtight. And Just kind of to this point, you know, we had a roundtable in Los Angeles a few weeks ago where we brought in scientists from Yale, from UC San Diego, from tilt, I mean, a different, different groups. Dr. Karen was there, Dr. Julie Mossbridge. And I was like, I really want y'all to talk to non-speakers and their families and communication regular patient partners and spelling people. So everyone can get on the same page with like,

• 29:23Speaker 00

  how to test, what's ethical, what do the non-speakers want, they should have a seat at the table, and what's possible, and boom, let's all talk about this. And there was a scientist there from UC San Diego who said something brilliant, which was just like, you know, one question y'all have to ask, you know, because I think all the parents were like, look, and siblings and anyone that was there was like, we know this is happening. It's not a matter of if for us, it's why. So like, y'all are still like, looking at proof oriented research, but all you have to do is ask anyone in this world, and this is the truth. So let's talk about why. And then the scientists were kind of like, we have, in order to get funding to put our necks out there, we have to look at the if first, and then the why, and like, you know, there's all this different stuff. But one scientist said something so brilliant, she's like, you don't have to test everything

• 30:08Speaker 00

  in a lab to know it's true. She's like, you know, we understood quite quickly that x-rays were causing damage by looking at the data, by looking at huge amounts of people that were, you know, having radiation issues from having an x-ray. Or there's other things like that, where we, you know, can look at a huge group of people and then like, oh, the water's wrong in this area because everyone's getting sick. And let's test their blood. And, you know, we didn't bring one person and start looking for it. So she's like, there's many ways to do science. And, and there is something important when there's huge groups of people saying, this is the truth. It's our truth. And who cares if you're on board, like, this is our truth. And I've just been like, my own.

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Swirl my own mind about that of like when the world is like so far behind and and one, you know, it's like almost like a third world country and a first world country, where you have this group of individuals who've been systematically dismissed, ignored, abused in many cases, and yet like they, anyone who knows and loves them knows that they unlock the key to consciousness is quite beautiful. And the idea of like, let's put it in a lab, a one non speaker at one point, I mean, we're gonna do it, we're gonna put it in the lab, we're gonna do it because everyone else needs it. But the non speakers don't, you know, one non speaker once asked me like, why are people so obsessed with studying this with instruments? How come you haven't tried to prove love? And I was like, okay,

• 31:36Speaker 00

  that's a very profound question. And you're right, like, how would you bring love into a lab and prove it? Because I think for a lot of non speaking individuals, that would, this would be like a reflection of like, just a deep connection, like utter what humans are meant to do is connect in such an effortless way, where you don't need words and, and all the things that come with words, which is misrepresentation, withholding, sarcasm, lies, white lies, all that stuff, just this most pure, pure thing. And if love is the best superpower in the world, that changes how we live and how we move and how we act like, but we're not trying to test that. I thought they're so, so beautiful that a non speaker is like, if you're not trying to test love, why, why are you trying to

• 32:19Speaker 00

  test this? Like, it's the same thing. And I just thought that was so beautiful and profound.

• 32:23André Duqum?

  Yeah. Yeah, we have this deeply ingrained fetish with the intellect in our, in our, in this age that we live in, like we've spoken to and great thinkers like the famous logician Kurt Godel, around the time of the Vienna Circle, through his incompleteness theorem, proved mathematically how truth transcends proof. And it's like, you don't need to know all of the ingredients and biochemistry of a, of a meal to enjoy it and to be nourished by it. And yet, we have that desire to, you know, analytically be able to understand everything. And of course, like, I love that side of things, too.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 33:04André Duqum?

  Just when we solely identify as we mistake our, our models of reality for reality itself.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 00

  Yes, and I think about, you know, Socrates, who talked about gnosis a lot and knowing. And the argument even back then, which I think is so funny is if you read something, you get a bunch of posers walking around acting like they know something, you know? And I mean, the, the example I used in the telepathy tapes is like, you could read about what's in a marshmallow, but you don't know it until you've tasted it. And I think from Socrates' point of view, it would be like, if you read, the only wise person who really knows something is the one experiencing it. That's the one who knows. The people who read about it don't. And that's been so interesting, watching this unfold. So I'm like, the only people who really know are the non-speakers and those working closely with them every day. And, you know, you could watch like, you know, media being printed or journalists trying

• 33:58Speaker 00

  to attack spelling attack this. It's like, but go just spend time with the people doing this every single day. And, and it goes back to this old ancient argument of like, to know things, you have to truly experience it. You can't just read about it, right?

• 34:12André Duqum?

  Yeah. Yeah, that distinction is, is super important. And just allowing them to do what they both do best. And we live in an age where we can, of course, like get analytical and, and the Sanskrit term is vidya for this, like information that you can read in a book. But yahn, which is like the wisdom that, and that you get inspired by reading the book or hearing something that is a self gnosis, that, that awakens from within its bottom up, it's not top down from a psychological perspective. And the Buddhist perspective on this as well, the term is non-conceptual valid cognition. So you can know things without having a direct input of somebody giving you that information

• 34:57André Duqum?

  from the outside in. And we're seeing this up, of course, through all these studies and Sifans and all these capabilities that, that you've been exploring with through the telepathy tapes. And so, um, let's explore, I know you've been diving down various rabbit holes, exploring possible alternative theories around consciousness as it is fascinating. And there are many great thinkers that have alternative perspectives and have for a long time, like, you know, more recent ones like Rupert Sheldrake and with morphic resonance. And I think Thomas Barry is, is quoted as saying that. Life is not a collection of objects, but a communion of subjects.

• 35:40André Duqum?

  That there are these, that there, there's an interiority to all experience throughout the cosmos. And so, how did this start to shake up your understanding of what consciousness is? And perhaps how it could be viewed more as like, our brains like a, a radio antenna, you know, picking up signals, than through the hard problem of consciousness perspective, thinking that consciousness is just an emergent phenomenon of unconscious complexity? I think it, it helps kind of explain how telepathy isn't per se as somebody reading someone's mind, but tuning into a field.

• 36:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. So.

• 36:18André Duqum?

  What's up, everyone? Something I have been experimenting a bunch with over the past few years is how music, binaural beats, and various tonal frequencies at different hertz affect our mind in our body. I think sound is one of the most underutilized tools to support us on our journey of well-being. I've explored many different audio platforms over the years, and the one I would recommend to most people is brain.fm. Brain.fm is an app that curates science-backed music that syncs your brain patterns, helping you focus better, relax deeper, and sleep easier. I love having a variety of soundscapes, like their Deep Work one for focused attention,

• 37:01André Duqum?

  or others that help you down-regulate and meditate. They are hooking you guys up with a free 30-day trial by going to brain.fm/knowthyself. That's brain.fm/knowthyself for 30 days free. Always, you can check out our partners' page at knowthyselfpodcast.com as well. I hope you enjoy. Back to the show. Don't you just love Kai? She's great.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  You know, in the world, in the view of materialism, right? Consciousness is your brain. And so, it dies with you, it's born with you, it only lives in your brain. And I think for many people, that's problematic, because we engage so much with the outside world. I mean, it's kind of like, what? But anyway, one of the ideas, like Rupert Sheldrake, you mentioned, who's a Cambridge biologist, brilliant man, and he's studied telepathy in animals. And one of the things that he has posed as a really interesting thought is that We understand that the earth has a gravitational field. You can't see it. You know it's there. It's very powerful. You know a magnet has a magnetic field. You can't see it, but you know it's there. And he has this idea that we have a brain, yes, but we have a mental field around it. And that mental field extends beyond us.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  And it most overlaps with our deepest bonded connections, especially in animal groups where we are social. And so the most way, easy way to visualize this, I think, for people would be like a school of fish. Like, how are they moving like that and not bumping into each other? Or, you know, like a murmur of birds or something like, like how? I mean, maybe there's like a leader that they're all watching, but it happens in a split millisecond. And so, you know, I think this idea of there's like a mental field around them. But that mental field has been studied by Rupert Sheldrake. And the sense of being stared at is a very real thing. People will know if someone's staring at them in studies in a statistically relevant way. And not only will they know in turn when someone's staring at them, but they turn the

• 38:54Speaker 00

  right direction and look at exactly where the stare is coming from. Biologically, that makes a lot of sense, right? There's a survival element to that, that I think from an evolution point of view, we'd be like, oh, okay. It would be very helpful to have a mental field extending beyond us or to know where your pack is if you get separated. Or if you're hunting, where the prey might be. That, I mean, there is a real great survival element to this. But then it does make you wonder about why. And I think so for consciousness, especially after The Tlop of the Tapes came out, we actually kept going, kind of going through our inbox of like questions and people having experts writing with what, you know, they've found to be true. And we kind of released a companion series afterward called The Talk Tracks, which has been exploring this.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  And for me, like, to answer your question, I almost want to tell another story about what consciousness is. And I do think it comes from us and we are a TV or a radio that is receiving a signal. And I think one argument to that could be like, oh, well, why then if someone has a brain injury, do they stop working if consciousness is coming from somewhere else? Well, I think of it just like a piano and a pianist. Like, if you, in order to make a music, you have to have a piano and a pianist. And you could smash the piano, the pianist can't play it anymore. It's over.

• 40:12André Duqum?

  Yeah. You damage the antenna of a radio signal, it's not going to be able to pick up that frequency.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  Exactly. So I think it's a very similar thing. But with the TalkTrax, we have been exploring consciousness. And one of the things that was coming into our inbox and was shocking to us were people saying, this is happening in the world of dementia. This is happening in the world of Alzheimer's. It's just like the parents and the people working with non-speakers saying that slop at the is real. We are seeing this. This is real for us in senior living facilities and nursing groups. Like, we are seeing this. And when my, you know, counterpart who works with me first brought this to my attention, I was like, what? Is this just like one or two weird emails? Like, don't worry about it. Like, we don't have to. And she's like, no, Kai, it's like a lot, like 10, 20, 25. Like, lots of emails are coming

• 40:59Speaker 00

  in. So we started exploring it. And we interviewed people. And it was the exact same experience where they would hear their loved one in their mind telling them how to help them get into the car, or go to the bathroom. Like, very physical, you know, just rudimentary things to make life easier. And, and, and once that was kind of turned on for someone, it often was turned on for other people. So they could start to hear other Alzheimer's or dementia, you know, whether it's patients or just people out and about. And I mean, you just have to listen to that TalkTrax episode about dementia. It is fascinating. You know, and then we started talking to animal communicators who were like, this is really real. And

• 41:41Speaker 00

  And you cannot, you can actually cure animals by what they're telling you. You can engage with making them feel safer. So they're able, like, one of the women we had, I think, in episode two of The Talk Tracks was a woman named Dita Young, who works with Olympians and helps their horses travel easier in, you know, trailers if they're scared of doing that, or could figure out why it stopped wanting to do jumps. And it was because the Olympian that was riding it, like, had arthritis and the horse didn't want to hurt it. And the woman didn't know. And the animal communicator is saying, "Your horse is saying you have arthritis." The woman gets it checked out and sure enough, she's arthritis. You know, just these unbelievable stories that make you wonder, okay, is it a mental field or something bigger going on there?

• 42:23Speaker 00

  And I think the only way that I think about it is that consciousness is certainly fundamental. It's there before we engage in with our body and it's there after. And it extends beyond us. And because love and community is such a huge part of who we are, it can overlap with the people we love and need the most. That was a really long, weird answer.

• 42:45André Duqum?

  No, that was great.

• 42:46Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:47André Duqum?

  Keep the long, weird ones coming.

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• 43:20André Duqum?

  I think it's really fascinating to talk about animals just for a second here because that's also been studied with Rupert Sheldrake and that they, in a statistically significant way, know when their owners are coming home. 50% in dogs, 30% in cats, where they will control all of the potential variables, whether it's like a different car they come in, the time of home that the owner will come home. And it's been tested up to that, up to those 50% and 30% in cats where... The moment, like the owner-

• 43:54Speaker 00

  The attention turns toward home.

• 43:55André Duqum?

  Hmm. The moment the attention of the person who's driving home decides to come home, the dog will go up to the window.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. And what I love is any good scientist who studies this stuff has to be so buttoned up. It's more airtight than like cancer studies, truly, in many cases, because it has to be, right? And so when Rupert Sheldrake, Dr. Sheldrake, was doing these tests, he would have people come home in random cars from different directions, you know, on bikes, whatever, in a taxi, so the, so the dog wouldn't know which direction it was coming from, what sound it was, unfamiliar, unfamiliar times, they'd page them to come home. And if the person had a flat tire, the dog's attention would suddenly, huh, okay, leave the door and go and lie in his bed. They were filming the animals. Or if the person was leaving work and was like excited to go home, the dog would go, start waiting by the door.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  And if the boss was like, oh, hold on, we got to come back, we got to talk about XYZ, and their attention turned back to the office, the dog, at that moment, would go leave the front door and go back to its bed, or, you know, jump on the couch. So the tension, the intention and the attention of the owner was connected to the dog. And what's so interesting is like, I've watched this unfold, or heard stories of it unfolding now many times with teachers or parents, or again, someone who's connected to a non-speaker, where they will seemingly tune in, like Marion Harrington, who's a teacher, who first started witnessing this 30 years ago. She has a story where the first time she ever realized this is she went to a store

• 45:25Speaker 00

  one night and she bought like donuts and Swedish fish and Oreos or whatever, stuff to bring as a treat the next day, and she forgot it in the car. And this was a non-speaking individual with autism that she was visiting that was no longer in her class. So she brought all the treats to go visit his class. And she shows up, does the stuff in the class, sees him, and like before she left, he came over and he drew a picture of a fish and a donut and, you know, it looked like an Oreo. I forgot the three treats, but he drew pictures. And she was like, how does he know? How on earth does he know? I didn't even think about it at all right now. So his attention must have tapped in with me while I was at the store. But at this point, this young individual wasn't spelling yet, so there's no way to ask him. And years later, he is spelling.

• 46:08Speaker 00

  And she said, how did you know that about the treats years ago? And he said, well, I knew right when your attention tuned into me the night before when you were in the store. Like, that was like the invitation to jump in. And we've heard that so many times on repeat, that like when your attention or intention is on someone, it kind of opens up a window between you.

• 46:30André Duqum?

  Yeah, and people like William James and Aldous Huxley have explored theories around transmission of consciousness. And if it is a greater field in which we're all connected to and is not bound by time and space in the conventional materialist notion, then it could make sense. And they explain how our brains are more of like a reduction valve or filtering system. Because quite honestly, it would be extremely overwhelming for our mind and nervous system to be exposed to all the information that's currently around us.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:01André Duqum?

  And what's interesting is how, thinking, okay, we're seeing a lot of examples through animals, more vastly observed in these non-speaking autistic children. But it's something that is pervasive, that we all have access to to varying degrees. And so when you think about resonance, like, have you seen that video of like, you take a tuning fork at like 432 hertz or whatever, and you bring another one and you hit one, and the other one starts vibrating next to it, even though they're not physically touching? Or if you bring a different hertz, it won't, right? So there's like, that's the perfect example, through physics, how we can see that resonance on the same frequency passes along information. And there's like a highway there and connectivity between the two.

• 47:42André Duqum?

  And so when you've been studying and seeing how there's this emotional attunement between a caretaker, a teacher, a parent, and their autistic child, and there is this very connected access way between their consciousness, what, yeah, what comes to mind as to as how that could perhaps explain how this information is being traveled?

• 48:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. And one thing I want to say is, I don't know if it has anything to do with autism. I think it has to do with non-speaking abilities, who are people who have apraxia, like, they're less connected to their body. And I do think there is something deeply profound about that ability, where you don't know where your body is, you don't know who you have hands, sometimes you don't know where your feet are.

• 48:23Speaker 00

  Like some of the non-speakers we work with have to kick everything in the room to know exactly where it is before they walk in. And it's just, it's lovely. It's just lovely, I think, to watch individuals walk through the world in a different way. And to not know you have a body, it would make you exist so differently, on a different plane, I think. But, okay, I wanted to say that, but what was your question again?

• 48:42André Duqum?

  Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because if our identification with the density of our body would maybe kind of limit us access to these more subtle realms, then their access to these different vibrations and subtle resonances would be stronger.

• 48:57Speaker 00

  Yes, yes. I think that is it. I mean, I do think, again, like it is, I think many non-speakers will say, I'm not in my body, it's hard to control, you know, it's very frustrating. And the place they reside the most is not in their body. And so trying to figure out what that looks like and what that means is tricky, I think. But for a lot of people who work with non-speakers or live or love them, well, like, there was a woman, we were just filming in England, and she said, you know, I feel like my son, Kyle, is in a different field. And I would consider this field like a third field, way out there.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  And it's non-physical, and it's really hard for him to get to my field, the first field, which was very physical and very material and very heavy and very here. And she's like, and then there's like a field between us, which I think that might be like music and art and meditation, like of dreams, like that can kind of bridge it. And she's like, but with like great love and attention, and if I clear out all of my ego, everything, and I fully hold space, it almost creates a bridge for him to come through. And she's like, in that space, we can write music together. I know he can come to me in dreams and communicate with me. And while we were there, I was like shocked to my core because Kyle's never learned to spell with a letter board. That's just, there's, I think they say, she said, there's three people who teach that in all of England.

• 50:24Speaker 00

  So that's a whole different problem to address. But, but she's like, we've never had to, because if I clear myself, we can get to this telepathic field together where I know what he wants, or he'd come to me in dreams. But while there... She told me he came to me in a dream the night before with lyrics to a song. And I was like, this is amazing. Let's film it. I want to film the process. And she's like, okay, so typically like I have to clear my mind and often the music will start to come and I'll start to write it. And he'll say yes or no. So she tries to hold the space and I just imagine like almost like a straw, like, right? Like trying to pull like something into like this field. And, and all of a sudden Kyle picks up the pen and starts writing it on a piece of paper.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  Of course, we have it on film. It's beautiful. And he's writing in the most perfect font on paper. And I was just like, what is happening? He's writing it out. And it was amazing. And she's like, if I'm holding the space and I become this bridge where he can come to this field and beyond. And I thought, my gosh, this is kind of like what people talk about with spelling is there is a mystery about it. Like you have a praxia spelling. If you are a good communication regulation partner who has been trained, it's almost like you learn how to hold the space and becomes like grounding rod for these individuals. And that's tricky for science to talk about. Like, why does spelling work? I don't know. Your body is like becoming a grounding rod, but like what Caroline was explaining with Kyle, I think is a similar thing.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  And when asked why or how you can do this with this person, but not this person with loud non speakers, they'll say stuff like good vibes or love, you know? And, and a certain amount of just pure attention and love and like confidence and belief in you, your ability, your competence, can pierce the praxia and make it melt away. So I think that at the simplest form, truly being present and loving someone, like truly being loving and present and sitting with them and believing in them, that you are competent, you are in there. I don't care what the doctors are telling me that you're not. I don't believe them. Like that changes lives. It changes what you're capable of. And it also can turn on these gifts.

• 52:32André Duqum?

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  They ship worldwide and have an easy return policy. And also an array of other science-backed wellness products worth checking out. If you want to give them a try, go to boncharge.com/knowthyself and use code knowthyself to save 15%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E.com/knowthyself and use code knowthyself to save 15%. Boncharge products are all HSA and FSA eligible, giving you tax-free savings of up to 40%. I hope you dig it. Back to the show. That notion that through stillness and like a radio signal that has extra frequencies and creating static noise around, you can't hear quite the song that's playing on the radio or whatever's happening on that channel.

• 53:58André Duqum?

  And it would make sense that the more that we tune into our own inherent vibratory state, which is more of our true nature, commensurate with love and peace and stillness and that state of clarity, that access would be that much stronger. What is that? How has that changed your notion of what love is, as perhaps more of like a universal conductor and connector? And like, how has it changed since like getting exposed to all this deeper and deeper, how you move through the world? I'm curious.

• 54:26Speaker 00

  Well, it's interesting. So many people, I mean, not so many, but people fall into two categories, right? Like, this is amazing. I want to figure out how to do it myself. And then there's some people who are really totally wigged out at the thought of like someone reading thoughts. And you think about it and like, are, are, are the icky parts of world, like corporations and politics and wars? I mean, all that stuff has, depends on secrecy, patents. I mean, all, everything that like drives our economy and our security is based on secrets or politics.

• 54:56Speaker 00

  It's like the only way we can reimagine a new world is if the secrets weren't there. Right? And so we've talked about this internally, I think, just like as our team with many of the families and those, and you know, this beautiful network have just formed, which is like, you have to clear your thoughts. You have to peer your thoughts and knowing someone can listen to them, yes, or that they're affecting people. But also how you feel affects people, like everything we're doing, the non-speakers are saying they're receiving like sponges. But we all are too. It's just like you said, we have a greater filter, I think, in many ways to filter it out or that's affecting us. And pretty quickly, if you're around a non-speaker, yes, you are having cleaner thoughts, clearer thoughts. You have to, I think, if you love them, you're gonna really try hard.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  And I've noticed it on our film shoots, everyone, we talk about it before people walk in the door, before they sign up to do it. It's like have really clean, beautiful thoughts, like please be affirming these individuals every step of the way. And how that changes everything, how it changes the whole love and the energy just everywhere. When people are only thinking nice things all day long, or thinking nothing at all, right? Just really clearing it out. And if we were all doing that, can you imagine what would happen with like our friendships? Our nation, our corporations, or how we treat people, how we treat each other? And so this idea of like being scared of having someone read your mind, it's like, well, then look at what's in your mind.

• 56:15André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 56:15Speaker 00

  Just change what's in your mind. And if we were all doing that, I mean, the world would change completely. So I think when people will talk about like, is this a step to evolution? I think about it not as like, are we all gonna come telepathic? I mean, maybe that's gonna happen. But I really think about the first step being basic, like just changing what you're thinking. Because if consciousness is fundamental, then every thought we have is connected to everyone else. And what we are thinking is completely manifesting the world. And it could be good or bad, and we get to choose.

• 56:46André Duqum?

  It's a powerful and often confronting notion to many to think that thoughts are things, that they have an actual substance to them that is more energetic and we can't physically see them, but that doesn't change anything. Everybody listening and watching this podcast right now is doing it because there are non-visible forces making that, making this possible. You know, and, and so it's, it's interesting to see on the macro scale, what happens when this perspective and understanding, if it was applied more thoroughly throughout society and how we Approach people and how that changes how they view themselves and how they navigate through the world and through these parents not giving up on their non-speaking children and to realize that there's somebody in there, they just have that disconnection and disassociation

• 57:31André Duqum?

  with their body. And by believing in them, they believe in themselves and their access to the state and communication becomes that much more powerful.

• 57:40Speaker 00

  Like, we have been seeing amazing things with just love and attention and belief. Because, like, Kyle's on my mind because we just left England. But we'd be like out on rocks near the ocean. I'd be like, Kyle, can you step up here again? Like, that's tricky with apraxia. And then, yeah, I think Caroline's probably thinking, he did it once, Kyle, like, don't push your luck. And Kyle would do it again and again and again. And it was like amazing because like apraxia doesn't work that way. You cannot tell your body what to do. And she was just like, he knew how important this was. He knew that you expected him to rise to the occasion and he did it. And what was so cool, like, we did our hill shoot where we had families with non-speakers from all around come to a location where we were shooting our metaphysical hill, which is a telepathic channel where many non-speakers meet.

• 58:21André Duqum?

  That's quite the sentence you just said.

• 58:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know.

• 58:24André Duqum?

  It's awesome.

• 58:25Speaker 00

  And one of the things that I know, like, our producers were hearing, and it was really valid, was families being like, I don't think my child can travel. It's going to be really hard for them to be on a plane. They can't go more than 90 minutes. They can't go more than two hours. They're going to become dysregulated. Like, they don't go out into airports. Like, just the fear, the fear, the fear. And often, that's because of a society who can be really mean to like someone who looks different, sounds different, moves different. And I think probably for a lot of non-speakers, when they go out into the world, they're feeling that anxiety and sometimes shame. And it's just like, blah. Well, for this, though, it's like the non-speakers got onto their planes. They were good. They were able to like, really, I think, elevate to the best version of their

• 59:10Speaker 00

  capabilities to maintain their, like, To me, you know, just to, I don't even know what, to stay regulated long enough to get there, that it wasn't really super stressful for their families. And, and it's just like, I think because they, there was this belief from their loved ones being like, you can do this, you will get there, we're taking you. And then what happened on the hill, I'll never forget this moment. And I mean, it was like, one of the most touching things. So in the podcast, people fall in love with John Paul and his girlfriend Lily. And I don't want to tell what happens because it's kind of like a big spoiler. But, but one of the things is, you know, they're both non-speakers and Lily has a really hard time lifting her chin and John Paul's gigantic. He was like, he's like seven feet tall. So,

• 59:54Speaker 00

  you know, he lifts her head like that to help, you know, look at, to help her look at him. And it's really hard for her to lift her chin. And there's one moment when we were shooting on the hill and it starts pouring. And everyone, you know, they're scared about the camera equipment, they're scared about everything and everyone's like leaving. And I was just like, Lily's on this hill and it's so beautiful. And like, I knew the moment this could be used in the film, which I don't want to say again, because it's like a spoiler, but it's like, in my brain, I'm like, Lily, please stay there if you're comfortable. Like, this is so great. And she was just like, in it. And then I got the camera guy to come with the camera and the umbrellas. And, you know, we went over there. And it was like pouring rain and Lily's on this hill. And I was like, Lily, can you look up? And she just like, looked up. And it's like, can you look straight ahead? And that does not happen with apraxia at all. And it's like, for a moment, it was

• 1:00:38Speaker 00

  pierced. And she was just able to control her body and like, be in that moment and do exactly what she needed to do, I think for John Paul, you know? And it was beautiful. And like, after it, like, she had a huge smile on her face. And it's fun because her parents are like, it's hard even to smile someone with this praxia. Like, often your emotions showing on your face don't match what's going on. And Lily's smile was gigantic. And I remember saying, this could, you do a warm shower, like, we'll warm you in blankets, there's a cabin nearby. And she spelled, no, I'm like, I think she wrote, like, I'm warm with love, or something like that. And we went back to like the Holding area where there's food and, you know, it's just a lot of people milling

• 1:01:19Speaker 00

  about and she just like laid on the floor in a blanket with such a smile. And it's like she knew that she like showed up and did exactly what she wanted to do in that moment for the film, for her story. And it's beautiful because I mean, we've all been talking about this now, I would say, as like a community of non-speakers and those who love them is like when you are believing in them and say, you can do this, the world's telling you can't, but I know you can. They will. And I think there's just been, imagine, oh, the scientists, the doctors, the teachers, so often family members, community members, neighbors, fast food workers, anyone that you've come into contact with is like, ugh, like doesn't believe in you, doesn't believe

• 1:02:01Speaker 00

  you're in there, upset or frustrated by how you're acting or controlling your body. Can you imagine going through the world that way? What that would do to your, not like your spirit, your heart, your mind, your self-confidence? And so just that little bit of believing in someone is so huge.

• 1:02:19André Duqum?

  It's amazing to implement that in our own daily lives with all the people around us, I think. And it's fascinating to see these different state experiences. You mentioned individuals with dementia that can have this terminal lucidity they refer to with perfect clarity, the last few hours of their, of their life before they die. And it just reminded me of that when you were sharing that story because there are these, these moments where all of the diagnoses and, and diseases like, and the things we struggle with physiologically subside for a second in a moment of energetic kind of clarity and connection. And it's fascinating to see what that reveals about this world we live in.

• 1:02:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. Actually, when you were saying that, I just thought about something. There's been a few parents who've told me that when maybe their child, who was a non-speaker, got really sick and suddenly they could speak really well. Like, and it was like, what? But it was like there's fluid in their brain or something was happening or there was a fever, whatever. It did something in their body where all of a sudden they were speaking and it'd be for 24 hours and then it was gone, the second they got better. Which is so wild because it's like something is going on in the body, like it's all in there. But, I don't know, we talk about this too. There's been so, so little interest, I think, in this population that there's been such little research done that I think one beautiful thing happening right now is people are finally like stepping up and wanting to do the research. And I think that's going to be such a gift to society.

• 1:03:44Speaker 00

  When we include these individuals at the table, you know.

• 1:03:48André Duqum?

  When you speak about all these different individuals and the variance and all the capabilities, I would love to just hear you list off of like, what are the things that you've been seeing or hearing about what is possible. Obviously, telepathy, like we spoke to, is kind of a term for being able to hear, see, experience what is happening within someone else's consciousness. But that extends far beyond into all the different categories throughout ESP. And so, yeah, what are some other things?

• 1:04:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. And even before I say it, like, if anyone's listening out there, listen to the podcast first, because we hold your hand through it. And you will believe, I think, for many people, when you listen, when you hear it unfold as, because a lot of these things are hard to believe.

• 1:04:29André Duqum?

  Sounds like something out of a Marvel film.

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, stuff I didn't believe in, you know, like, I didn't, I really didn't, I knew that, like, rocks were cool, but I didn't understand that they actually, like, could heal. And I thought the idea of like, crystal stores and stuff, I knew that, like, I thought people just projected their own thoughts on them. And it wasn't really, until I met non-speakers, who like, could tell what rock was in a, behind a closet door because of the frequency coming off of it, or would bust through doors because they knew their parent just came home with like, crystals and rocks and like, could feel them in the house. Like, stuff like that made me be like, I believe, I believe, I believe, I believe, you know. But, um, but, you know, every single person, I think, who works with a non-speaker, who has witnessed telepathy in their own life, which is many, will say,

• 1:05:15Speaker 00

  telepathy is the tip of the iceberg. That is the thing you hear over and over and over again. And I was like, what are you all talking about? When I first started meeting families? Like, and I think for me, and actually, I think non non-speakers will, will even say this eventually, is that like, I, they dole it out based on what you can handle and when. And, um, and I think the parents were even doing that to me a little bit, like, this might really shock you and make you leave. So we're gonna do it slowly. And thank God for that, because, you know, as you go slowly through these things, it, anyway. So.

• 1:05:49Speaker 00

  Definitely the telepathy. I think another one is seeing beings and spirits. That is quite common. Talking about people who've passed with such clarity and knowledge, even often someone the family doesn't know. And that comes up in the film. And again, I don't want to do a spoiler really, but like, actually, a young man who was a non-speaker was talking about a cousin who also was autistic and had apraxia and was kind of ignored and dismissed and forgotten by the family. And he was saying this man was keeping him a lot of company. Well, it turns out this man had been dead for a long time. And that's

• 1:06:31Speaker 00

  the type of story that we hear all the time. And teachers hear it. And I think if you talk to a lot of individual teachers or spelling communication partners who work with non-speakers are constantly talking about other beings that they can't see. Another thing is also connecting in a realm that I don't, I don't have access to, it's very hard access. And the non-speakers call it the hill. But if people listen to the talk tracks, we go into older speakers, stories of non-speakers. And one non-speaker years ago in the 90s was calling this the lollipop line. And it's the same idea of this like place where you can connect on a telepathic level and meet and enjoy and heal and help.

• 1:07:10André Duqum?

  Like a non-physical chatroom.

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  A non-physical chatroom. And the first time I heard about it, I was like, I don't know about this. I mean, what? And then I thought, well, maybe it's only in Atlanta because this is big here. But then I heard a minister from a megachurch in Arizona who had met no one that I knew that had a non-speaker who was talking about the hill. And I was just interviewing this guy because he had figured out the telepathy, working in this like big ministry for special needs kids. And he's like, you know, and these kids talk about a place called the hill. And then I met a teacher in the Midwest and another teacher and wherever. And then a man in Israel. And like, all of them were like, oh yeah, the hill, the hill, the hill, the hill, the hill, the hill. And that pretty quickly became, okay, well, what is this? It's everyone who doesn't know each other is talking about this place. And it's very real and it's very meaningful.

• 1:07:58Speaker 00

  And it is a place where I think when for a lot of individuals who have been dismissed or can't speak in this world can have some beautiful and deep friendships. And we watched that at the physical hill because we invited every non-speaker that wanted to come or could come in our orbit that had talked about it to us. Not every, but that's a huge exaggeration. We that were in the film or the podcast that had talked about it to us. And many of these individuals had never met each other, yet were like hugging and so happy and so supportive and were knew exactly who the other one was and had, oh yeah, I know her, this one has this, that that person has this personality. And like, it was unbelievable to witness these individuals meeting in real life who'd met before.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  So I think the hill, this metaphysical plane, we were filming in Connecticut and a young man there had explained that there was 27 ephemeral beings, I believe, in the room when we were filming. And we were like, who are they? And, you know, he said, some are spirits who've passed and some are other non-speakers who know you're here and they're trying to support me. So that's a big part of it. I think remote viewing, being able to see things that are happening other places. And I've had that happen in really weird ways. Like one time a mom was trying to get ahold of me desperately and I was busy and on emails and phone calls and I saw her calling, I'm like, I can't, I'll have to call her later. And then like I step out for like eight minutes, I had like a lunch break and like the phone

• 1:09:28Speaker 00

  rang and she's like, okay, I know you just stepped into your kitchen for a lunch break. And it was like, what? So I think remote viewing is a is easy for.

• 1:09:37André Duqum?

  Yeah, there's, there's also many declassified CIA papers using this thing.

• 1:09:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:42André Duqum?

  Stargate and.

• 1:09:44Speaker 00

  And then, um. I think remote viewing through timelines, we actually, we're going to release a talk tracks on that really quickly here, but like there was a non-speaker in Illinois who started using a word and spelling it and both the teacher and the mom who was sitting there and was like, we don't know this word, like, what is this word? They start looking up and they're, we don't even find this word. So then they asked him, because often when you're working with a non-speaker and they're spelling, you're writing down everything. So you have, right? Like a concrete example of what the conversation was. So they asked him, is this the word you meant? And he said, yes. And they said, what does it mean? And he explained what it meant. And he said, it, and they said, well, where'd you learn

• 1:10:27Speaker 00

  this word? He's like, from watching, I think, like the Spanish magistrate in 1430. And they were like, what? And anyway, they went home and they looked up the word and it was a word that left our lexicon in like the 1600s. They had to look really far, but he was using it in the right context and it would have been like in relationship to like something the Spanish magistrate was doing. And so then they asked him the next day, like, how did you know this? He's like, oh, I went back in time and remote viewed it. Like, I don't know what that means. You know, and I think for a lot of family members, it feels so out there. It feels funny to even talk about it out loud. It feels awkward to say it on a podcast. The only reason I can say it out loud is because it's happened so often and everyone is marveling in the same mystery. I mean, the teacher called me, the mom called

• 1:11:08Speaker 00

  me, and they're like, have you heard of this? I call another parent, the parent, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, that happens. Well, I've you not ever said anything. Well, he never asked. And it's like, oh, gosh, okay. So then you start asking more people and more people start telling you the same thing. And it's just, but everyone's kind of marveling at the same thing. Well, what does this mean? What did they mean by that? How did they know that? Is that really remote viewing through time? Or can they access something or pull down a word and know it? What the heck is happening? And so I think as hard as it can be to caregiver 24/7 for someone who has apraxia, I think there is also if a parent can like relax and lean into it, or a teacher or loved one, they find this mystical marvel of a world that everyone's trying to unravel and understand together.

• 1:11:55André Duqum?

  Yeah, it's completely mind altering to explore these different things and very confronting and challenging to like, accept them. And the cool thing is you don't have to, like, you get to just see, okay, there's examples of this, many of them, and different examples of precognition, clairvoyance, clairsentience, psychometry, which is like, holding objects and having information about where they came from or their past. Dream communication, which is something we talked a bit about before starting this podcast, that you had an example of recently, I think, through studying someone with their-

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  Progressive's Accident Response can contact emergency services if you're in a major accident. The only thing worse than someone you love being in an accident is not being able to help them. So Progressive is here to help when you can't. So get peace of mind knowing your loved ones are protected with Progressive's Accident Response. Learn more at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Limited availability in California. Driver is responsible for emergency and towing charges not covered by the policy. Coverage subject to policy terms and conditions.

• 1:13:01André Duqum?

  Dream. I'm curious for you to touch on that one, and how dreams reveal, because again, we have, we can study the neural correlates and different brainwave states going from alpha, beta, theta, and how in deep sleep and REM sleep, it's interesting what happens neurologically, but then also what we get access to information that we did not get exposed to, but appears in our consciousness, that we can start to pay more attention to. And there are some more obvious examples that pop up. And so, do you want to share anything about that, that one?

• 1:13:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, as far as the dreams go, I mean, this happens, again, quite a bit, but in episode eight of the Telepathy Tapes, which people should listen to in order. But in that one in particular, we focus on, actually, it's that young man I was just talking about, Kyle, and he's in England.

• 1:13:54Speaker 00

  And his mom, and he never learned a spell. And his parents, I mean, his mom had no idea he had any musical ability. And this comes back to the dreams, which I have to give this backstory. And when he was 20, they put him in a music therapy class for the first time. Well, it turned out he had perfect pitch. He could play almost any song. He had like this whole database of songs and they don't know how. And he could play the keyboard. And then he started to develop that he could write music. And I asked, you know, Caroline, well, how on earth does he write music if he's, can't speak and isn't on the letterboard? And she's like, well, often he'll come to me in dreams. And the first time it happened was way when he was young, you know, six, seven, eight, something like that.

• 1:14:39Speaker 00

  And he'd come to her, I think to tell her he needed antibiotics, not probiotics, some medical thing. But the way he got her attention in the dream was to get her into lucid dreaming. And so what I mean by that is like lucid dreaming is when you are in a dream, but you know you're dreaming. And she thought she was just in a dream. And then Kyle started like doing something with a playing card. And then she, he turned like a, you know, I don't know, ace of clubs or something into like a snowflake and then looked through it. And it was all jarring enough that she, he kind of woke up. And then he started speaking to her and she's like, oh my gosh, Kyle, you're speaking. I can hear you. And he's like, yeah, mom, so I can speak in my, in our dreams, but this is what you need to know. And he told her something and that was amazing. And then she woke up the next day, you know, maybe a few hours later and thought, okay, it was a dream.

• 1:15:22Speaker 00

  And then Kyle came to her at the kitchen table and was like nodding. And she's like, okay, you know, okay. And then he like went and got an ace of clubs. And, and then she's like, oh my gosh, okay. All right. And then so after that, he could get her into a lucid dream state, but he has to do something really weird to help her get there. Like he'll open an umbrella, look really quick in front of her face in the dream or put an ice cube in her mouth, something that like brings her into this dream state. And when there they can talk. And she's like, I know his voice. It's wonderful. And she's like, you know, often tell me something like, even though I love ketchup in the real mom world and I eat it all the time, like you have to stop giving me ketchup. It's so bad for my system. So please don't give me any more ketchup. And she'll be like, okay. So this is the type of stuff of how he went along for a long time.

• 1:16:06Speaker 00

  20, he starts learning music. And then he would come to her in a dream and be like, this is the melody. These are the lyrics. You have to write it down. So she'd wake up and as fast as she could, she started writing, writing, writing the lyrics. And he would sit there and go, yep, yep, or nope, nope, if it was good or bad. And so she would kind of get the right sense and then she would play the music and he'd go, yep, yep, nope, nope. And then so she kind of was like, I think this is right. But she ended up, you know, connecting him with a music producer so that they could just jive together in the studio. And she said, if the music was going the right place, he would like get into a flow state, like so many creatives talk about where he could play it out and add to it and whatever. And if it was bad, he'd just go catatonic. He would just forget it, like just gone.

• 1:16:48Speaker 00

  And then if the flow would come back, then he would like come to life again. And so she's like through dreams. I think they've written two or three albums. And it's so unbelievable to hear, but when I was in England, we filmed him doing a concert. And there he was, like up in front of all these people, an individual who cannot speak, but can sing and write and play and writes music through dreams. So it's remarkable. And like you brought up something right before this about, um, you know, clairvoyance and mediums and et cetera, et cetera. And I think throughout history, there have been so many frauds and so many charlatans. I think for so many people, it's so easy to dismiss this stuff because it's like, well, people fake it and they lie and they have. There's frauds all over and there's people exploiting stuff to make money.

• 1:17:33Speaker 00

  And it's so sick and gross because it's often exploiting people in their most needy moments. But there are also really, really good psychics and mediums. And, and, but I think what makes the, um, non-speakers such the most beautiful, unassuming, like messengers of this is there's nothing to gain. They're not saying this for money. They write as at this, well, hopefully if everything goes well, we'll change. But right now there's not much agency to have a job, to make money, to have social media, to date and get married, to have a friend group, to be popular, to have anything ego-driven that's meaningful.

• 1:18:15Speaker 00

  And it takes so very long to write a few sentences. It can take two hours to write something profound, that the idea that individuals who have nothing to gain, nothing to show for, are making this up on a worldwide scale is. It's just ridiculous. And so I think what is resonating with people is so often these gifts come in a form of someone who could be cheating you, who could be lying, who could be profiting from this, you know, faking you out, taking advantage. And for the non-speakers, that is so far from the case. I mean, I think the ethos of every non-speaker I have met is love and transparency, kindness, connection, deep and utter forgiveness for how people have treated them.

• 1:18:58Speaker 00

  And it's almost like our loss if we don't listen to them. But it's like, there's really two options. They're either all telling the truth, or they're all lying. And it's not the other one. It's not the latter, you know?

• 1:19:10André Duqum?

  Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up because, again, there can be real individuals who have these capacities, and there are a lot of individuals who want to capitalize off of people's belief in it and don't have an authentic connection. But there are gifted individuals, and I think experiencing that firsthand and witnessing it firsthand is the most transformative thing.

• 1:19:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:32André Duqum?

  Because some people write off, you know, certain things to coincidence.

• 1:19:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:37André Duqum?

  The biggest mystery would be if no coincidences didn't happen at all. It's actually normal that there are some, but you're giving such a meaningful repetition in these studies where it's statistically significant 95-plus percent of times. And so that's helping satiate our intellect and different things. But there is this interesting three-stage kind of process throughout any evolution of paradigm that I believe Schopenhauer is first.

• 1:20:06Speaker 00

  First, it's a sense ridiculed, then it's self-evident.

• 1:20:08André Duqum?

  Yeah, so what is it first?

• 1:20:10Speaker 00

  All truth goes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it's accepted as self-evident.

• 1:20:17André Duqum?

  Where are we at on that spectrum here?

• 1:20:21Speaker 00

  Well, I think we're darn close to self-evidence. I mean, ridicule, I think, families have been dealing with and teachers for a long time. And not just in the non-speaking community, anyone who's saying they have telepathy. Come on, I mean, that's completely been ridiculed. I mean, I think Rupert Sheldrake really lived through a lot of the violent opposition of saying this stuff is real and true. Another one is Dean Radin, who is the chief scientist at the Noetic Sciences, which was founded by Edgar Mitchell, an astronaut, to look into consciousness. I mean, Dean Radin has, through his labs and a lot of the research they've done, they've replicated these studies over and over and over and over and over again. And when you look at the metadata over time, it's just remarkable.

• 1:21:03Speaker 00

  But so many of these individuals that were the pioneers were violently opposed. And we have certainly been violently opposed. Like, I remember the first, like, negative article that came out, I was like, what? Like, this is, like, so earnest, everyone involved in this. I could not believe it. I was like, this is controversial? Like, it felt so personal, because I couldn't believe it. And then it was just like, oh, no, this is just what's going to happen, of course. This is the violent opposition to something new and paradigm shifting and scary, and that's meant to happen. But this is why I think the table has turned, is because it is being seen as self-evident. So many people are having their lives, I think, changed or opened up by what the non-speakers and those who love them are sharing.

• 1:21:45Speaker 00

  And people are realizing that there's no gain in this for these individuals, except for, they just want to understand why this is happening, you know? And I think, I think we are actually living through a paradigm shift. And I think it's amazing. And it's like, the public is ready for it. And the non-speakers are going to lead the way.

• 1:22:04André Duqum?

  Yeah, it's fascinating, because we live in a time where information and these studies can be spread at the, like, blink of an eye so quickly. And when you look throughout history, and you look at heliocentrism, and what happened to individuals there, where they were... Basically put in prison for those understandings and beliefs to germ theory of disease, to the abolition of slavery. Like, it took a long time to go through that process of becoming self-evident. And now we can, things can move a lot quicker. But it is fascinating to see how that repeats throughout history. Anytime there's an evolution of un-understanding about reality, it is ridiculed and violently opposed until it becomes obvious and self-evident. And we're at that precipice now, which is exciting.

• 1:22:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think we really are. I mean, even meditation was considered fringe and out there just 30 years ago, right? Like acupuncture, like doing something like that. It's like, how would you be, it doesn't work, pointing needles. Like, these things, like so much in our world that people are like, it works. I don't know why it works or how it works, but we're, you know. But you're right, in terms of scientific breakthroughs throughout history, anyone can look it up. Just look up what has been ridiculed, like violently opposed and ridiculed as a scientific breakthrough. And there's many, many, many, many that are now self-evident.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

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• 1:23:47André Duqum?

  Where does this put us? For the average listener of this podcast, we're exploring how we live in this, potentially live in this vast field of consciousness where we all have latent capacities and ability to be able to have clear insight and extrasensory perception that's not coming through our immediate sensory experience. So what do you think about how this relates and translates to our experience, to people that are listening that have varying degrees of awareness of their connection?

• 1:24:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:20André Duqum?

  And of course, we mentioned earlier, it's easy to contrive this and like, try to, try to be special. Like, we have to examine our own desire and need for specialness when exploring the authentic connection about this. But yeah, where does that place the rest of us?

• 1:24:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, what I would tell people is, Yes, these non-speaking individuals have a heightened ability that seems to be really remarkable, at least most of them. But we all have these abilities. You don't have to go, you know, pay for someone to help you with this. It's not magic. This is nothing new. We are rediscovering something that I think has always been there. And actually, if you were to go look into a lot of the ancestral writings, talk to people who are really familiar with some tribal traditions, this stuff is all still happening in there and completely understood to be a part of the human experience. We've just forgotten through various technologies, if you will.

• 1:25:18Speaker 00

  I mean, even if you think of like, language and writing and phones and computers and all of these as, you know, quote unquote, technologies or innovations, it's taken us away from like, our basic living in the moment and being fully, truly present. And when you are in that fully present moment, you can perceive more of your world and connect more deeply with everything and everyone around you. But I hope, and I think it is happening, people are starting to realize, I can do this too. And there's examples, you know, one of the most, I've heard this over and over, talking to scientists, one of the most obvious and evident forms of telepathy every day is telephone telepathy. We shrug it off, but it's pretty clear. Often it'll be like, I was just thinking about you and the phone rang. Or like, I was just seeing my first grade teacher and someone just like, and

• 1:26:01Speaker 00

  then she popped, texted me. You know, like, the weirdest things happen to people. And that's like, a quick moment of it, right? And, but we can all tune into this. It's just, there's a current, and it's not loud, and it's not obtrusive. I think this current of like, the connection, where if you really try to find it in your body, and it's the easiest way to do it is through meditation, of course. But, but you can tap into that. And, and there is remote viewing classes that many neurotypical people do, that was utilized by the CIA. There's a great book by Annie Jacobson about the declassified CIA documents on, I think it's called Phenomena. And that was about that program. So you can learn remote viewing. Like, we were just at a school for season two yesterday, and

• 1:26:46Speaker 00

  it's called Intuition Process, and they teach kids to see blind And they can write and do puzzles and everything with a blindfold on. It sounds bonkers. I've now watched it in England. I just watched it in Los Angeles. It is real. It is real and it's happening. And the kids that were doing this were saying it's so great because it turns on your intuition in all these other ways. One of them is helping to find missing people. Another girl was able to save someone's life by saying, you're about to have a heart attack. You must go to the hospital. And he was about to have a huge, massive heart attack. Another girl told, said her family, asked her family to leave the house because it was about to, she knew something bad was going to happen. The family gets out of the house and exploded. It exploded from a gas fire or something and they're still trying to figure out what happened. So these were neurotypical kids.

• 1:27:30Speaker 00

  And so this stuff is possible. We can tap into it. The younger you start, I think, helping kids like tap into it, the better. But none of this is goofy. And I think that if you were to talk to a really well-established, well-respected medium like Laurel and Jackson, I mean, her message to everyone was, you could do this too. You could do this too. You can tap in. You can do it. And I think that's what many of the, the real deals will tell you. You can do this as well. You don't need me. But it's in all of us and we just have to remember.

• 1:28:06André Duqum?

  It's fascinating to extrapolate this as to our own human journey. How intuition and our connection to these deeper knowings can guide our life in ways that are more fruitful for us in the world and aligned with our own true harmony and nature. Something I wrote was like, when you get quiet, what needs to be heard will get loud. And if you don't get quiet, that noise will rule your life unbeknownst to you. And, and I'm curious in your own journey, like you're pioneering and stewarding and supporting a lot of this coming to light in an amazing way and that positions you uniquely. And I'm just curious how this has refined your own understanding about your own internal connection and how you've been on this own intuitive path from first hearing a podcast

• 1:28:50André Duqum?

  with Dr. Powell on it to doing studies to now the podcast, season two coming soon and the documentary that's going to be coming out. Like you're on a wild journey and I'm just curious about like your personal path and how you've been relating to this all.

• 1:29:05Speaker 00

  Well, I think surrender was when it really started to take over. Like, when I first was, you know, kind of unfolding this world, I thought, okay, this has to be a docu-series because it's so big and so massive and it has to go this way and it has to be here and it has to go on this network and it has to, has to. I had like it all mapped out based on what I thought needed to happen. And none of that happened. Like, when I pitched the docu-series, people said, "It was a great idea. It's beautiful, whatever. It doesn't, it doesn't fit our mandate. What is it? What genre is it?" And it was like nose across the board. And actually, this morning, I realized, like, it was almost a year ago that I was, like, crying in my backyard because I'm like, "This is over. I worked so long on this. I have no money to go make a documentary. I can't do a docu-series without someone backing it." Like, it's over. I failed everyone. I mean, that was really what I felt.

• 1:29:49Speaker 00

  Like, it's, I failed everyone. And I couldn't get it off the ground. And then it was like a lightning bolt. Well, no, I remember going on a walk with my friend, who's very Buddhist and wonderful, and I was in the moment of just devastation and just self-dejection. I just had to feel bad for a minute. And she's like, "You know what's in store for you is so much bigger than what you have in store for yourself. You have to let go." Like, what you had, what you were envisioning was so minimal. And I'm like, "What are you talking about? Like, this is the most important story in the world and it's never gonna go anywhere now." And she's like, "You're, just surrender." And I remember going home that day and I, like, just said to the universe, "Okay, I surrender. Like, I clearly am not the right person to tell the story. I'm clearly not what, I don't know how to do this.

• 1:30:32Speaker 00

  So, take it back. I'm so sorry. And, and let it go however you think it should go now. Like, I'm out because I didn't do it right. I must have failed somehow." And, like, the next, like, day, it was like, "I have to make a podcast! The podcast, that's the way to do it." And I remember calling all the families and being like, "Okay." That we're involved in that moment. And even Dr. Powell was like, "It has to be a podcast." And people were like, "That's a really bad idea, Kai. You have to see spelling to believe it. You have to see the syllopathy to believe it. Like, how is this gonna be a verbal podcast? These individuals don't speak, for God's sake! Look, yeah, we can make a podcast!" And I was like, I don't know, but I just know this is the right way. Like, it has to be a podcast.

• 1:31:15Speaker 00

  And I think everyone in my life was like, this is bonkers. But not everyone, but most people. And, and, but it was so clear to me, like, this has to go this way. And it wasn't me then. It was something else, like, driving through. And it was literally the second I was like, I surrender. I can't do it. It's not me anymore. Like, I, I had it all wrong. And the second that surrender happened, it was just like,

• 1:31:40Speaker 00

  okay, great. Thank you for surrendering. Now, this is how it's meant to go. And it really felt like it came from somewhere else. And the thing is, every movie I've ever written, every story I've ever written, I sit and I outline and I read it and I research. And it's like, I remember sitting down at the computer for season, for episode one, and it was just like, and it's like, every single quote, every single, I had it all. It was all on my drives from all the years of putting, it was like, all just like, like, told itself. It was like the clay, like, built. And then I remember just getting really excited and calling some of the families, like, this is what's gonna happen. And they're like, well, what's the episode two? And what's the arc? I'm like, I don't know. And they're like, why don't you know? I'm like, because it's gonna write itself. I actually don't know. And they're like, what type of director are you? Because I always know. I always write the outline. I always write the story.

• 1:32:25Speaker 00

  I always know. And this was truly like, I don't know what's gonna happen in every episode, but I know it's gonna flow. And I had a, I knew, like, we have to cover spelling. We have to cover the dreams. We have to cover the hill. We have to cover the friendship. We have to cover the struggle. Like, I understood what had to happen. I just, and I, and I could feel it, like, I felt a form in me. But I just knew that it would form itself if I just surrendered. And so that's what I've learned now, is every time I start to think too much about something, I'll be like, lead with love. Let love guide you. Only do it for love. Check in with the families and teachers and non-speakers all the time, and see if they're happy.

• 1:33:06Speaker 00

  And if those two things are good, then I will just get out of the way. And, and it, it works. And I have checked in with the non-speakers quite a lot, because the spotlight is on them, and they feel it, and they know. And they're like, keep frickin' going. So that's cool. Because I think they see what's in store in a way I can't. So surrender.

• 1:33:27André Duqum?

  That's so powerful. When we have that like tight grip for and that control and unending need for certainty, it's like we can't. Our signal isn't as clear to receive and surrender to what life wants for us. We're always in this perception of what we want from life.

• 1:33:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:33:43André Duqum?

  And and that's just a powerful reminder, I think, for us all who desperately want something, yet life is trying to give us something that's even greater than our comprehension.

• 1:33:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:33:53André Duqum?

  Because all of our desires are fundamentally informed by past events and pre and knowledge that has happened in the past. And so it's like, if life is going to unfold greater than you could imagine, then you need to be willing to let go in that space. And that's that's just so cool. How it was literally one day and then you had this intuitive hit and who knows what came from it. But from that point, I mean, how many, how many months after was that moment from the eventual?

• 1:34:20Speaker 00

  It's really weird. I love that this is, we're talking about this right now because this morning I was sitting with my family and the kids were like, what did we do last year for 4th of July? Because, you know, it's like this Friday is in a few days. And then I think my daughter's like, you were really upset, remember? Because like you didn't get your TV show and then you thought the world was over and we were going to sell our house because we were like, like there was no hope left for any, like they were like, remember this being like super tragic? And, and I was like, oh, my God. Like last year this time, like I was just starting to work on episode one of a podcast, like not knowing what I had a pillow fort in my bedroom. And, and but like what my kids remember from last 4th of July, I was like, hot mess. Like I was a hot mess, you know?

• 1:35:04Speaker 00

  And it's just so weird to think what can happen in a year. But, but the fact is, it was like, I didn't do anything but surrender. I mean, I think, yeah, so.

• 1:35:15André Duqum?

  Yeah, it's, it's interesting you say it like that because from the outside end, it looks like you're doing a lot because you are like your body's moving in places and you're coming up with things. But the Taoist maxim that I say a lot on this podcast that I love, it says that the master does nothing, yet leaves nothing undone. And it's like, there isn't this sense of I or doership behind a lot of the actions. And that's when I feel like we're actually living in accordance with surrender and where Then in a less than a year's time, it's like things completely radically change. And we lose sight of like how fast they actually do because we're in our day to day experience. But like months back, a year back, it's so cool just to see and hear your own personal journey. And I'm just so happy for you.

• 1:35:56André Duqum?

  And yeah, I'm just so enamored with what's happening within the culture at this point. And it's a testament to what happens to when you listen to that own internal voice and guidance, what that can do to culture, society, humanity. And we've seen that throughout varying degrees when thought leaders have this conviction or understanding and they are led by love in a deeper way. And that can radically transform humanity. And we're in a time where we need that more than ever now. And in any way, we can get it to not have such pervasive illusions around separation and in groups and out groups. But like cohesive conversations and things that bring our understanding of how we're actually more all one

• 1:36:40André Duqum?

  and connected at deeper levels. And so I'm stoked for you. And this is just all exciting.

• 1:36:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. And one thing to end on, because you were talking about love. And I thought, what, you know, people might wonder what is love? And I remember asking a non speaker once, like, what is love? And it was so quick. Anything that unifies. And so I think like, that's a great thing to think about as you leave. Like, is this moment, is this decision, is this action going to unify or divide? And if you can like live your life with unifying in mind, then you're living a life of love, right? So it's a good way to go forth.

• 1:37:16André Duqum?

  Yeah, yeah. No, it's a powerful note to start to wrap up on. I think as these understandings are becoming more self evident and that paradigm of the evolution of a paradigm that we talked to earlier, as these things are coming more and more to the light and people understand them and Have their intellect satiated and the legitimacy of the repeatable studies and experience and hear more of these stories, which I encourage everybody to go listen to the Telepathy Tapes and Season Two, which is going to be, when do you think is going

• 1:37:49Speaker 00

  Probably October, September, October of this year.

• 1:37:51André Duqum?

  Okay, so we're close by, yeah. It's exciting to see what's upcoming in that whole world. And yeah, this was amazing, so fun.

• 1:37:59Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:38:00André Duqum?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:00Speaker 00

  So fun.

• 1:38:01André Duqum?

  Yeah. Do you have anything else on your heart that you want to share about, anything that we talked about that you haven't touched on? And then also where people can stay connected with you and your work?

• 1:38:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest message to share will be the film, which is coming out. Hopefully, it should be wrapped up here film-wise, August, and we will have that released early next year at some point. So that's the most exciting thing. TheTelepathyTapes.com, of course, we're on Instagram and TikTok and all the things at the Telepathy Tapes. But I think people need to know the talk tracks is out there because it is as fun, I think, at least people tell me it is, as the Telepathy Tapes because it's exploring consciousness and also many of these questions with so many beautiful stories, some dealing with, you know, other stories of non-speakers and some not. But I think people will find all these threads really weave together in a beautiful way.

• 1:38:50André Duqum?

  Amazing.

• 1:38:51Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:38:52André Duqum?

  Well, we'll leave links down below where people can stay connected with you and find all these resources. Thank you so much. It was so fun to connect. I'm excited to chat more offline.

• 1:39:01Speaker 00

  Likewise.

• 1:39:01André Duqum?

  And yeah, amazing. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning to this episode of the Know They Self Podcast. I'm so curious to hear your thoughts on this episode, what it's inspired and created all within your life, hopefully, and let us know. Until next time, be well, take care.