E148 - Vishen Lahkiani: The Formula for Thriving in a Changing World (Success, Intuition, & Fulfillment)

Vishen Lakhiani explores the profound shift humanity is experiencing and reveals why the old rules of hustle culture are no longer the path to true success. He lays out an 8 step formula for creating a life of alignment and fulfillment. He reveals how to redefine success on your own terms, embracing simplicity, and uncovering your unique edge in a rapidly changing world. This episode is perfect for anyone looking to better understand how they can thrive in this rapidly changing world. BonCharge Red light therapy: Go to https://BonCharge.com/KnowThyself and use code KNOWTHYSELF to save 15% Andrés Book Recs: https://www.knowthyself.one/books ___________ 0:00 Intro 2:15 The Definition of Success Is Changing 6:32 Finding Our Unique Path to Fulfillment 9:30 8 Rules: Simplicity is the Key to Success 12:15 Wealth Comes from Opportunity 15:12 Discovering Your Unique 'Edge' 18:18 Following What You Love 22:36 Unlearning the BS rules Society Tells Us 26:46 Demystifying & Strengthening Intuition 35:52 Ad: Boncharge Redlight Therapy 37:16 Purpose & Prioritizing Self Growth 41:02 What It Takes to Combine Purpose & Profit 45:26 Formula for Attracting Abundance 52:18 Make Space for Calmness 56:21 Hustle Culture is a Thing of the Past 1:00:51 The Future of AI Is Here: How Will Life Change? 1:10:47 What's Our End Goal As Humans? 1:14:39 Human Genius: What Defines the 1% 1:18:57 The Power of Community 1:21:40 True Meaning of Spirituality 1:28:25 Relating to the Ego 11:29:49 What It Means to Know Thyself 1:30:24 Conclusion ___________ Episode Resources: https://www.instagram.com/vishen/ https://www.mindvalley.com https://www.vishen.com https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/ https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/ https://www.youtube.com/@knowthyselfpodcast https://www.knowthyself.one Listen to the show: Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4bZMq9l Apple: https://apple.co/4iATICX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:57Speaker 02

  Whatever rules you decide are true, become true for you. If you think about human history, we've been slaving away for the longest time. What's about to happen in 2025 is that the definition of success is changing. This is the perfect time for us to fully, fully embrace what we love. What we should be teaching adults to do is to answer eight questions. Answer these eight questions, and I think you'll be setting your life up for a lot of beauty, elegance, happiness, and success. And what people don't even know is this: Stop trying to glorify hustle culture. Hustle culture is a thing of the past. This is what I'm trying to wake people up to. We have two great spiritual needs: the need to grow and the need to contribute. When you have that purpose, you have more fuel, you have more energy,

• 1:42Speaker 02

  you have more excitement about life, you feel more fulfilled. But if everyone was doing that, imagine how beautiful the world would be.

• 1:55André Duqum?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to the Know thyself podcast. Our guest today is a bestselling author, founder and CEO of Mindvalley, which is a global education company that is transforming the way we think about self-help, personal development, wellbeing, and it's been a pleasure to develop our friendship over the past couple of years and see the inspiring work he's really stewarding and pioneering in the space of helping people come back home to themselves and become powerful creators in the world. Vishen Lakiani, thank you for being here.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Thank you, Andre. By the way, this is an amazing set.

• 2:29André Duqum?

  Thank you, I appreciate it.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  It's just so soothing, it's so peaceful. I've never been in a podcast set like that. It feels like you're in a spa, not a studio.

• 2:40André Duqum?

  Yeah, I try to make these conversations, like the atmosphere, feel a little bit more like a ceremony than just casual, and so I'm glad it's cozy.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Also, this tea is amazing. I don't even know what you put in here.

• 2:54André Duqum?

  It's the stuff from Peak, they're a sponsor, so I'm glad you like it.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 2:58André Duqum?

  Man, there are so many amazing avenues I'm excited to explore with you. I really love individuals that are playing at a big scale, that are very aligned with a message and vehicle of service to the planet. I'm sure it's evolved over the years for you, but how do you currently, as of today, define what success means to you?

• 3:20Speaker 02

  So, the definition of success is changing, only because we, in 2025, literally this year, we're entering a new era of humanity, and that is the era of human beings working with AI to not just transform the world, build companies, but to make work dematerialize. So, if you think about human history, right, we've been slaving away for the longest time, ever since we moved from being hunter-gatherers to farmers. Now, the hunter-gatherer lifestyle was actually a superior lifestyle. I mean, day one, you're hiking through a forest, hunting animals, you'd probably be

• 4:02Speaker 02

  done with your work in two or three hours, have enough to eat, and then spend the rest of your time with nature, with family, but when we moved to farming and growing crops, life got really hard. All historians agree on this fact.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  And what happened is working hours started increasing and increasing and increasing. Because first you're managing the crops, then you are, or if you're not managing the crops, you're building the tools to harvest the crops, or you're working on farms owned by landowners. And it got to a point where about 100 years ago, Americans were working 12 hours a day, seven days a week. Then Henry Ford comes along and he changes the work dynamic. And he gives us the modern eight to nine hour a day, five day work week. And this continues until now. What's about to happen in 2025 is that next big shift. And this shift is as big as going from hunter gatherers to agriculturists.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  And that shift is AI and robotics are gonna start taking off, taking over a lot of our work. What's going to happen? Bill Gates just announced this last week. We're about to enter a two day work week. Not only that, but just recently, one of the many robotic companies around the world, there are around 30, 40 robotic companies, they estimate it to be, at a conservative level, a million humanoid robots in the workforce within the next three or four years, right? So one of these robotic companies just announced that, figure, figures named the company, that we'll have robots in our homes in around two to three years. Because they're making such rapid progress.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  And what people don't even know is this, as amazing as things are right now, AI is doubling in power, cost of power, every 3.3 months. So in the next one year, it's gonna increase by 16 times. In the next 24 months, 256 times. In the next five years, can you guess how many times? 1 million. It's exponential. If it's doubling every 3.3 months, in five years, it's a million times more powerful. So when AI is a million times more powerful, what is going to happen? And that AI that's a million times more powerful now in robotic bodies, not only are white collar jobs gonna disappear, blue collar jobs are gonna disappear.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Universal basic income, it's not a question of if, it's now a question of when. And by the way, Elon said that. And so what we're about to enter is a world of abundance. Except it's no longer the hunt to gatherer world. Where you work for two hours and you don't have a roof over your head. But you know, you're in nature. We're entering a world where we have everything we need. But we may only have to work one or two hours a day. That is crazy exciting. But that also means that how we set goals is gonna have to change. Money is gonna become less important. What you do with your free time, that's gonna be more important. And so the way we are measuring our goals, human beings all around the world.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  It's often, you know, like reinforced by culture. Culture is about to get completely disrupted.

• 7:10André Duqum?

  In the midst of culture getting disrupted, I think it's really important to distill down and get clear as an individual when reflecting on what is going to be the most meaningful endeavor in my life, what direction do I want to go in? And I think of how the potential of a seed is encoded with it from the start. And so even before we go out and wanna create or and contribute to the world however we might, it would be really wise to spend time and really contemplate what is going to be the most meaningful for us. And so for you personally, in your own definition of success and honoring and discovering what that unique seed is that you wanna contribute to the world, how would you describe that?

• 7:50Speaker 02

  So I'm actually working on an idea right now. I call it Soul Pact. And it happened because I was looking at how I was building my company and I realized all the old rules no longer apply. And what I want, what I thought I wanted, no longer matters to me. And at first, for about six months, I got really jaded, almost sad. So I, I, I used to love employing lots of people. You know, at a peak, we were 400 people. I loved designing offices. My office twice made it to Ink Magazine, most beautiful offices in the world. And then all of a sudden, the world started changing post-COVID. And I realized, I don't wanna work from an office. I wanna work from home.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  I wanna be able to travel with my kids and really get to know my children before they leave for university, still getting to work. But last week, for example, I was with my son and daughter in South Korea. The week before that, we were in Malaysia. The week before that, we were attending classes in Singularity University. I like that freedom. Money has stopped mattering to me. As long as I have a home that I love being in, the things that most matter are human connection. And what has become insanely important is health and free time. And so I've started reevaluating all my goals. And Andre, man, it's been, it's been crazy. Because for the longest time, I was working towards building a company with a valuation of a billion dollars. Let it speak.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  We were, we were just under a billion in valuation. And now I just don't know if that matters anymore. I still want to build something great, but I want to build it with tiny teams, complete flexibility, few hours a day, and with tons of like AI agents supporting us.

• 9:40André Duqum?

  I love it, man. I, I think to a degree, there are these games that we play in life that we almost need to play out in order to go beyond them. You know, so money, obviously, being a big one of that, you know, for, for the entrepreneurial spirit in many of us, it's building a big organization or building a team to almost prove something to ourself in a sense. But then you get back to the core of, okay, how do I really want to live? And, and what is going to be the most impactful thing that I can do with my time for the planet? And as somebody who's spending so much time thinking about education from a new paradigm perspective, and trying to bring more unity on the planet and democratize it in such a big way, what, what comes up for you in this new chapter of your life?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  So I was, I was writing down my goals recently, right? And this thought occurred to me. School. School prepared us, according to Calvin Coolidge in the 1920s. The point of education is to create cogs in the wheels of industry.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  That doesn't sound like a really healthy way of like raising human beings, right? But we've been doing that for a really long time. I think that whole system is now ripe for disruption.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  I think what we should be teaching adults to do is to answer eight questions. Now, to make it easy to understand, I'd like to share these questions with your audience. And they spell out the word S O U L P A C T, soul pact. So I put it together in this simple abbreviation, so it's easy to remember. Answer these eight questions, and I think you'll be setting your life up for a lot of beauty, elegance, happiness, and success. The first question is this, basically, simplicity. Simplicity should be a goal. There's elegance in simplicity.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  If you're writing down a goal, your goal might be something along these lines. I run my business with only, underline only, five people, three people, with only five people and a swarm of AI agents. Peter Diamandis said the next billion dollar companies are going to be built by teams of one, two, or three. Today, I listened to an interview with a college kid, nineteen years old. His company just got a valuation of two billion. A nineteen year old kid and under twenty employees. It's wild, right? So simplicity needs to be an art form. We don't want complexity in our life. That's the first S.

• 12:10André Duqum?

  That's funny, because I think a lot of people would hear that and think that is not simplicity in terms of having twenty employees or building a billion dollar company. But in terms of how compared to how things have been done in the past, there is this distillation and simplifying of leveraging intelligence in ways that are kind of like have that multiplicative effect. Okay, so S.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  So that's the S. Okay, now, the O stands for opportunity. So here's a wild story. And by the way, just to go back on what you said in simplicity, the reason why I use the example of a billion dollar company is because I don't want people thinking. I'm telling them to not be ambitious, right? I mean, America is fueled by ambition. But if you want a company that comfortably brings you enough for you to have a wonderful life, zero employees or one employee, that's great too. No one is saying you need to go out there and build something. I just wanted to use that example because I don't want to be accused of saying, sit in your butt and don't be ambitious. Okay, O stands for opportunity. So a couple of years ago, I'm in Dubai, and I'm told I have to meet this guy. He's a

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Brilliant entrepreneur. He's taken seven companies public, billionaire. And I meet him and he's got this insane apartment overlooking the Palm Jumeirah. You know, those beautiful islands in the shape of a palm. So he takes me to his balcony. I look down in this balcony and it's unbelievable. I'm trying not to swear in this spiritual room here. It's unbelievable. And then we're quiet for a while and he turns to me and he goes, you know what it takes to be a billionaire vision? And I go, what? And he goes, work 21 hours a week. I'm like, what? He goes, work 21 hours a week, seven hours on Tuesday, seven hours on Wednesday, seven hours on Thursday.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Keep Monday and Friday free. And I go, why? And he goes, because wealth comes from opportunity. You see, if you're building a company and you're hustling every day and you don't have free time, you will be stuck on that one hamster wheel. But if you tell yourself, I only have 21 hours a week for this company, you'll figure out how to delegate, you'll find the right people, you'll create process. By keeping Monday and Friday free, you free yourself up for opportunity. He says, if someone calls me up and say, hey, Wayne, come to London. There's this beautiful property you need to check out. He says, I can fly out Thursday evening, be in London, spend Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday in London,

• 14:41Speaker 02

  fly out Monday night, be back in Dubai to go to run my company by Tuesday. Opportunity. Success and wealth comes from creating space for opportunity. Giving yourself thresholds, like capacity of what you want to allocate to a project, not letting that project expand and free up your time, but giving yourself opportunity where you can discover the world, where you can see beautiful new things. Remember that trip we did on Egypt, right? That was amazing, right? Like, we spent, what, seven, eight days in Egypt? But all of us could do it because in our lives, we had created space for opportunity.

• 15:21André Duqum?

  And I think bringing this a little bit to the micro level, too, there's space for opportunity within our life, years, month, week, and also day. We can create spaces in these, in pockets of these day where we kind of set aside all of the woes and all of the knowns in our life and create space for things to arise that are perhaps greater than we could conceive of, you know? And so I like that idea of creating space for opportunity, both at the macro scale in terms of our calendar in our life, but then also within our daily, daily moments, too.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so the, the goal that you want to write down is, I create space for opportunity by, and then it could be keeping Fridays free, or keeping or stopping work after 5:00 PM so I can focus on learning and growth.

• 16:08André Duqum?

  Amazing, okay. So what's the you?

• 16:10Speaker 02

  The you is unique edge.

• 16:12André Duqum?

  Unique edge.

• 16:13Speaker 02

  The question there is, I am known in the world for, describe that. So in a world of AI, generative AI can create, you know, that's that scene from that, that Will Smith movie, I, Robot. And at this point, Will is pissed off at the robots. And he says, you know, you know something? You will never create art. You will never create poetry. You will never know what it's like to, to, to, to write something human. Well, Will was wrong. AI is creating art. AI is creating poetry. AI is creating music. We got that wrong. So what makes us human?

• 16:53Speaker 02

  What we need to do is hone in on that unique edge. Maybe that unique edge is you're an incredible interviewer with a spiritual soul. You know how to make your guests comfortable? You know how to extract wisdom from that? That's harder for an AI to do. Typically, to find your unique edge, you've got to find one or two or three things that you can be really good at and then combine them. So I combine, I studied computer engineering. So I combined that with spiritual teaching because I became a meditation teacher. And then I combined that with, um, um, with my stage presence because I studied to be an actor. So that's my unique edge. I combined three things. You can't have a unique edge if you just have one thing. You've got to combine them.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  And if you can combine them in the right way, that could be a recipe for something really beautiful. What is your unique edge? What are you going to be known for?

• 17:50André Duqum?

  There's a couple of things that ring a bell for me when you talk about this. First, the unique distinct differences between, obviously, humanoid robots who are bereft of an internal qualia experience, you know, of life and having consciousness in that way. And then, two, how we're going to change how we relate to what makes us unique in terms of human. Because societally, for the past few hundred years, we've really pedestalized the intellect as sort of the chief, most impressive thing about us humans, right? And we're having a paradigm shift of what is intelligence and the democratization of that in this current moment. But when you talk about unique edge, and I think of everybody who's listening right now,

• 18:34André Duqum?

  all of us want to discover and reveal what is our unique expression in life, both in terms of our creative arts, our businesses, our families, and the world. And we're all unique humans. All life and nature is a unique expression, right? And I've enjoyed seeing content and conversations of yours over the years, talking about this distinction between authentic desires and goals, which are culturally conditioned. You know, like, for example, our notions of what success means. And so, when you think about that distinction, if we want to unlock and reveal our unique expression, how do you distill down what your authentic desires are? Is that's the kind of the revealing process for that?

• 19:14Speaker 02

  So, this brings us to the fourth one, right? Which is L. And L simply stands for love. So what is it that you enjoy doing? Even if you don't get any likes, you can share it on your Pinterest board, and you aren't going to get paid for it. So love, part of that can be a unique edge. So let me give you an example. When I was young, I was deep into martial arts. Like, I got all the way to a second, um, second degree black belt in Taekwondo. And I was so into martial arts that I would have to take time off from school to compete in competitions. And I remember a teacher told me, "Why are you doing this? You're never gonna make money in martial arts. What's the point?"

• 19:58Speaker 02

  My dream at that time was to open a dojo. Maybe I'd watched like one too many Karate Kid movies. I wanted to be like the Malaysian Miyagi. And for a while, I believed that schoolteacher. But that schoolteacher was wrong. So I followed martial arts because of love. I got to a level where I got in, I got to compete and represent my country, Malaysia, in the US Open. That was my first time setting foot in America. And my god, Andre, I fell in love with this country. And so although I went to a British school and I was supposed to go to university in the UK, I decided to divert. I lost a year, but I decided to go and study in the United States. Now, of course, I had no idea about American geography, so I stupidly picked Michigan,

• 20:39Speaker 02

  the coldest, one of the coldest states possible, minus forty with wind chill in the winter.

• 20:44André Duqum?

  I know, I grew up in Michigan.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  You did?

• 20:45André Duqum?

  I know, I know the winters are brutal.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Michigan. And while I was there, I never forgot my, my martial arts. I couldn't find any good martial arts schools, but I started studying meditation. And eventually, I started teaching meditation. Meditation and martial arts are very, very, very related, right? You've heard of the concept of Kung Fu monks, yes? They are supremely related. They both come from eastern cultures, they are, they overlap a lot. And look, I took meditation and I built an app that did over a hundred million a year in meditation. So my teacher was wrong. What I did was I followed my love. Now, it didn't happen overnight. It took, it took maybe twenty years, but I didn't, I never did it for the money.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  If I hadn't followed my love, and love can lead you in really interesting ways, I probably wouldn't be sitting here today. I probably wouldn't be on stage a week from now in LA, interviewing Gwyneth Paltrow, on stage with Joe Dispenza, speaking about meditation.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  I ignored the advice from my teacher, who was trying to train me for money. Remember his words, "There's no money in this. I simply followed what I love." And I think there's, there's something special there. It's not gonna happen overnight. But in a world where work is gonna dematerialize, where things are gonna be abundant, this is the perfect time for us to fully, fully, fully embrace what we love. Right now, what I love is experimenting with music. And so I wanna teach myself how to DJ, how to compose music. My music probably sucks. No one's gonna listen to it, not even my kids. I don't care. I love it. I love creating. And so, what is it?

• 22:31Speaker 02

  If you're the audience member out there, what is it that you can do? That you just love? No one's gonna see it. Nobody's gonna rate you. You aren't doing it for grades. You aren't doing it for money. But in that abundance of free time, what can you do that just lights you up? And by the way, this goes back to your question. So if you identify that one thing that you can do, okay? So in my case, martial arts and meditation, that was my love. What I studied was computer engineering. So remember I said, "Your unique edge, you can combine two things." I combined engineering with meditation, built a meditation app. That went to a hundred million in revenue.

• 23:13André Duqum?

  It's really fascinating to see people's life journeys and how, what they love and their natural proclivities to what their skills are, combined in a vehicle that allows them to prosper financially. And, you know, of course, it's been quite the journey that you've been on in regards to that. I've seen you talk about the brules, you know, and these BS rules that we subconsciously are essentially programmed by, to live by culturally, familiarly. I wanna continue with your soul pact, but I'm just curious, what comes up for you when we discover what our unique edge is? Like, we have an idea of something that we love, that we wanna explore more. Maybe we have the idea to be capitalistic with, right?

• 23:58André Duqum?

  Whatever, whatever, whatever the notion is there. But there are these deeper seated programs that we kind of have to realize that we don't have to live by.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  No matter what culture you're in.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  We develop brules. Brules is what I found in my book, The Code of the Extraordinary Mind. It stands for bullshit rules, right? We develop bullshit rules about the world around us. And you know, one of my mentors is Bob Proctor. Bob was a dear friend and very sad that he died in 2022. And he created a meditation that he dedicated to me. It's called the Abundance Meditation. It's on YouTube. Go listen to it. It's amazing. And one of the things he says in that meditation, and it's in my mind because I was listening to it this morning, is he says, "The greatest illusion we have as human beings is that there is anything in reality that is outside our control."

• 24:52Speaker 02

  So what he's saying is literally all of reality is within our control. Now, it's within such a degree of control that whatever rules you've decided work, okay? Outside the rules of physics and the rules of law, let's not try to bend those. But whatever rules you decide are true, become true for you. That is why being able to identify any truth that you see in the world, being able to identify, is this actually true? Or is this what my mom, my dad, my schoolteacher, media, my political party, my culture, my race, my religion told me is true? Because it will be true for you. There's a lot of medical science for this as well. Whatever you believe to be true will be true for you.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  And in medical science, it's called a placebo effect. If you believe, you take a pill that isn't really a pill, you can heal an illness. They're now seeing the placebo effect expand to surgery. Since 2013, it was proven that fake surgery can heal a patient as long as the patient believed that the surgery happened because the patient was put under anesthesia and could see some cuts on their body. And so our mind is a meaning-making machine. And as children, we take meaning from the world. These meanings become a scaffolding of rules and then we operate between these rules. The most harmful rules are rules such as, "I'm not worthy, I'm stupid, I'm unlovable, I'm damaged, I'm not attractive."

• 26:21Speaker 02

  And by the way, I have all of those rules growing up as a teenager. But once you can identify what is absolute truth and what is a societal opinion, you get to break free from these shackles, from this artificial scaffolding. And that's when you really get to understand the power of what Bob said. Everything in reality is created by your mind.

• 26:49Speaker 00

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• 27:19Speaker 01

  As wish lists grow, you know where to go. Head to Ulta Beauty. We have gifts they'll love from brands like Tato One and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. Shop beauty faves to give or keep from Shark Beauty, Sol de Janeiro, and more. Not sure what they want? You can't go wrong with Baumann, Clinique, or Redken. And don't forget to put yourself on the list. Book a salon moment or add a little more sparkle to your season. Shop holiday in store or at Ulta.com. Ulta Beauty.

• 27:47André Duqum?

  I like that in that we are a co-creator with reality and we have influence over reality. And I love Bob too. I started with him earlier on in my journey. And I don't love the verbiage, everything within reality, if he articulated it this way, is within our control. That word to me sort of denotes like dominion over reality in a way which I think can set people up in an unrealistic kind of fashion. What do you think about there? And do you think there's a better word that could be replaced with control?

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Well, again, I'm paraphrasing, right? I heard him say this meditation this morning. I think if you listen to his full abundance meditation, he describes it. But I think what he's really saying is that it is a delusion that you don't have control over your reality. We all do. That's what he's saying.

• 28:34André Duqum?

  Yeah, and the realization that our thoughts do influence reality in ways we're only beginning to comprehend, you know, I think as you start to tear down that sort of illusory inner societal scaffolding, as you mentioned, you know, those programs and those beliefs around self and the world and what's possible and what we're worthy of, you start to gain access to deeper intuitive pulls, I think, for your life. And this is something I've seen you speak to a lot, because I know how big intuition has been for you. I want to get your perspective on this, because we're having more and more emerging scientific understandings of the inner workings of what intuition really is. I know you've studied it as well, and leveraged it completely to be able to design your life in a conscious

• 29:19André Duqum?

  manner. So how do you employ intuition in your life? How are you connected to it? What do you feel it is?

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Intuition is a lot like an internal AI. Let me explain why. A lot of people think AI is this machine in the clouds, separate from us. It isn't. You know what AI is? It's technology, taking the grand accumulation of all of human wisdom, creativity, art, knowledge, uniting it. It's literally uniting our brains and creating a layer on top of it, where all of us have access to the collective creativity and intelligence of humanity. Right? AI literally scraped the internet, scraped all of these, all books, all put into large language models.

• 30:11André Duqum?

  Condensed it down.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  And allowed us to now create a poem, create an art piece, create a music. It's trained on our collective work. Now, I believe that intuition is something similar. All of us, I believe, are deeply connected.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  I don't think we can explain that scientifically yet. And maybe quantum biology will give us an answer. But all human beings are deeply connected. The closer you are to someone, the more deeply connected you are. This is why we sometimes sense things about our significant other. This is sometimes why a mother knows when her child is in distress. There's so many stories of this. And through this deep connection, this disconnection of all of humanity, I believe that's the source of intuition. So that instinct, that insight, that idea that you get, it's coming from a larger aspect of you that's connected. You and me are connected.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  You and everyone else in this neighborhood, in this city, in the world are connected. And intuition is tapping into that field. Carl Jung called it the morphogenetic field. Tapping into that field and being able to source insight.

• 31:28André Duqum?

  Yeah, Sheldrake too is morphic president.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, Rupert Sheldrake spoke about the same thing, right? The feeling of being stared at. He spoke, now it's the title of his book. He spoke about how sometimes you'll be walking somewhere and you'll feel like there's someone behind you staring at you. And you just know. You turn around and sure enough, there's someone staring at you. And that sounds kind of creepy. But we have these instincts.

• 31:53André Duqum?

  Yeah, I think it's really important to demystify these terms. And there's a book actually around this general semantics called The Tyranny of Words that describe how we often use words without, you know, understanding or agreeing upon what they actually mean. And so I think it's really helpful to demystify words like intuition. And the way that you're kind of comparing it to a large language model, for example, that we as human beings have access to all of our historical experiences, of course genetically encoded, non-articulate, articulate, various forms of memory within us. And then we're also connected to a vast sea of information at levels we're only beginning to be able to comprehend.

• 32:37André Duqum?

  But nonetheless, we are absolutely connected to a greater field of information. And again, more and more science and studies and meta-studies are coming out around this, which is exciting. And of course, we don't have to understand something to use it, to leverage it, to employ it in our life. And so when it comes to intuition, as you've discovered it, what have been a couple of examples in how you share your relationship with intuition as it can be your own connection to that source of information that is grander than our own logical mind?

• 33:11Speaker 02

  So I've had intuitive insights that have guided me to producing a talk, or a speech, or a book, right? Just this, this, this, this insight. But I've also had intuitive insights that have saved my life. And intuition can come to you in different ways. People feel it in different ways. Clairvoyance is when you see something. Claroraudience is when you hear something. Clairsentience is when you feel it in your body. Clairsentence, I think, is really interesting. You can be in a room, or about to meet someone, and you feel this feeling in your body, and it's like, no, no. You know, it sometimes happens when you go on a blind date, or something along those lines. I had an experience of

• 33:54Speaker 02

  claroraudience that saved my life. So it was, must have been 2007, 2008, the Black Eyed Peas song, "My Humps" had come out. And I loved the Black Eyed Peas, so I was driving down the road, and the song came up, and I was just paying attention to the lyrics and laughing because it was so cute, such, "My humps, my naughty little humps." It was so awesome. And so, all of a sudden, I heard a voice. This is wild, right? I heard a voice, like there was someone in the backseat of my car saying, "Pay attention to the road." And it brought my mind off the song, back to the road, and just then, a truck hit a car. The car flipped up, landed in front of me, and I had just enough time to brake.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  And that was wild, right? I possibly would have hit that car if I hadn't heard that voice, but I swear it felt like it was coming from the backseat. There was no one in the backseat. So what voice was that voice? To this day, I don't know, but it was a voice. That is claroraudience, a form of intuition.

• 34:58André Duqum?

  It's so fascinating to just look at, um, look at the research and how much information is available to our sensory experience at any given moment. And yet, what we're consciously aware of is a small, small, less than 1% fraction of that for maybe none other than it would just be simply overwhelming to be perceiving all that we have access to or are connected to. Um, but the fact that we are connected to it allows us to tune into that, you know? And, and what do you think is the relationship to intuition and getting quiet and, and feeling open internally in, in that sort of relaxed state of mind? And how that, um, opens up your intuitive capacities?

• 35:41Speaker 02

  So studies in intuition show that when it correlates with a certain brainwave state, that brainwave state is called theta. So Dave Asprey, the, the famous biohacker, he has a facility in Seattle called Forty Years of Zen, wonderful place. And they use biofeedback to train your brain to develop the brainwave states of monks. Okay, Zen Roshi monks. So they're basically reversing the brainwaves of Zen Roshi monks who have spent decades in meditation. Now, here's what happens. There's a particular brainwave pattern. So Zen Roshi monks, what is unique about their brain is they have high alpha amplitude, alpha as a wave, high amplitudes of the wave as opposed to smaller amplitudes, and they have a left-right

• 36:20Speaker 02

  brain coherence. Now, they use biofeedback to put you in that brainwave state. And after you learn to be able to stay awake at alpha, like meditation, they take you deeper to what is called theta. Theta is really interesting. Theta is where, you know, when you're meditating and your head starts nodding like that, you're dipping into theta. And often you'll see dreams. Theta is where intuition lies. So you can train yourself to stay awake at theta. And when you go into theta and you're, you're awake, you're tapping into something, man. Like it's, it's insights, ideas, all of this stuff starts flowing out.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  That is intuition. That's how it connects to brainwaves. And I was, I remember being on Impact Theory, Tom Bilyeu's show. And we were talking about meditation and Tom is a very science-backed guy, but, but he shared with me something. He's like, you know, I've built billion-dollar companies. And I find that every morning I wake up, I, I, I, I sit in bed, I relax, and I do this thing called thinkation. And then as I thinkitate, ideas come to me. Tom's talking about that. He's talking about getting really relaxed and seeing what's flowing from your brain. And if you can do this, and you can, the deeper you can go into theta, the more accurate and structured that intuition can be.

• 37:43André Duqum?

  Yeah, you can tune into those more coherent thoughts.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:48André Duqum?

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• 38:34André Duqum?

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• 39:11André Duqum?

  I think when you see the fruit and the results that listening to your intuition bears, and again, it can be an interesting navigational path to discern what is intuition versus what is programming, because often, programming can masquerade as an enlightened perspective, you know, like, "Oh, this is a great idea." No, it's your wounding and your mommy issues.

• 39:33André Duqum?

  But again, life is revelatory in this path where sometimes we need to experience these things to have that perspective and reflection and contrast of experience. How does this flow into what the Soul Pact is? So, let's go through the rest of them.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Yes, we went through the SOUL. Also, remember, the Soul Pact is a way of thinking about your life for an age where AI is about to disrupt everything.

• 39:54André Duqum?

  Okay.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Okay? And the old rules of work no longer apply.

• 39:57André Duqum?

  Yeah, so simplicity.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  Simplicity.

• 39:59André Duqum?

  Opportunity.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Opportunity, unique edge, love, space to do what you love. Now, we come to the PACT. The first P is super easy, purpose. Find the purpose. We have two great spiritual needs, the need to grow and the need to contribute. I believe that as human beings, like, these needs, this is almost like what our soul craves. Tony Robbins talks about this, the two greatest spiritual needs, growth and contribution. So, opportunity O, that's where growth fills in, right? You, rather than work a full 40-hour a week, you work less, 35, 36 hours, but you create time for you to study, to learn. Now, P in the Pact is purpose. That's contribution.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Whether it is, um, it's giving money away, or it's teaching underprivileged kids, or it's building a product that's making a better world, it's just so important to have that purpose. When you have that purpose, you have more fuel. It correlates with longevity, which is really interesting, right? So, you have more energy, you have more excitement about life, you feel more fulfilled. But if everyone was doing that, imagine how beautiful the world would be.

• 41:11André Duqum?

  Let's break those two down. So first, growth as one of the most essential human needs. You've spoken to this rate of self-evolution and how it's an important pillar for understanding, to orient our life in a way where we have all these latent capacity, skill set gifts that we just would not discover unless we make space for truly growing mentally, physically, spiritually. So what is that framework for you, Rose?

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Rose, oh, Rose just stands for rate of self-evolution. Right? I think it's an important way of measuring how fast you're growing. And you can measure it in terms of number of books you read, the courses you attend. It doesn't matter, as long as you're making time for it.

• 41:51André Duqum?

  What is the unique difference between growing through learning and unlearning?

• 41:55Speaker 02

  So, unlearning is simply the act of understanding where your frameworks came from and knowing, was this a reliable source? It's understanding the difference between absolute truth and relative truth. Relative truth is what you learned from religion, culture, parenting, school, and media. And I can tell you this, all of us are swimming in a sea of relative truth. I live in five different countries, and it's really interesting to see how different countries observe each other.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Americans will be shocked at how the rest of the world observes this country, especially in the past four months with the tariff war. And so many of us live in our own little bubbles, but this relative truth limits our capacity for growth, for understanding, for improving the world.

• 42:54Speaker 00

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• 43:54André Duqum?

  How does that play now into contribution? And this idea of conscious entrepreneurship or enlightened entrepreneurship? You know, a lot of us feel the call and we discover a unique purpose and way we want to contribute to the world. And then it's a question of how can I scale this in a way that both nourishes self and allows me to amplify that contribution towards others?

• 44:15Speaker 02

  So your purpose and your business, stop trying to mix them.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Professor Scott Galloway, I was just listening to a lecture of his and he said something really interesting. He said, "We invite all of these speakers to come and teach at, you know, at our universities and they always leave the audience with a stupid piece of advice. Find your purpose." He goes, "No, no, finding your purpose isn't going to make you money. You want to make money? Do unsexy jobs. Go into, you know, transportation, go into sewage, go into retail. The jobs that are unsexy have the highest profit margins. The sexy jobs, nightclubs, personal growth teaching, music creation, lowest profit margins, unless you're in the 1%. If you're not in the 1%, be realistic about it. Get out.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Go get an unsexy job. You can do an unsexy job and then on the side, have a purpose." So I know a guy who makes a ton of money. He makes, he has a factory that makes noodles, literally like noodles, makes tons of money. What's his purpose? He built a church and he feeds the homeless. Two different things, right? The church isn't his job. Feeding the homeless isn't his job. That's just something he does for purpose. The noodles, that's his job. Let's stop trying to collapse the two.

• 45:37André Duqum?

  For many of us, I think we simply can't live life unless we combine the two. Like, for me, for example, I don't know how to divorce what I do and my purpose. Like, there's only one option for me in terms of my vision for what I want to create in the world. And I know similarly for you-

• 45:54Speaker 02

  You're probably in the 1%. Your podcast is probably in the 1%.

• 45:57André Duqum?

  Uh huh. Yeah, I know. I mean, it is. And likewise with Mindvalley, you know, and, but I think that, I don't think obviously one shoe can fit all for sure in this. And there's a lot of people who are going to work maybe an unsexy job, like you mentioned, and have their way to more directly contribute to the planet in a different way. But for those that do feel the call to combine them and have the sort of audacious ambition to combine them and see the vision for themselves succeeding in that 1%, what have you learned of what it really takes? Because you spoke to earlier this discovering of love for what you do and then combining with purpose, growth, and contribution. Why do those that make it into the 1% of their, of combining their purpose and contribution, make it while others don't?

• 46:42Speaker 02

  Well, if I can be really honest, a lot of it is luck. It's luck. There was, there was a study done by, I believe his name is John Goss. He ran a company in Silicon Valley called Idea Labs. And I looked at all of these startups in Silicon Valley and what contributed to their success. Employees, 13%, investors, 17%, timing, 40%, luck. Now, you're listening to your intuition? You probably are going to be better at getting that luck right because timing is so unpredictable. Algorithms aren't going to figure it out, but sometimes that intuition can guide you. Just like the intuition, my intuition, that voice saying, pay attention to the road. Perfect timing for me to avoid a collision.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  So, so that's how I'd answer, I'd answer that.

• 47:30André Duqum?

  Okay, let's finish with soul pack. So we got P and L with A.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  A is abundance. Okay, so the thing people got to understand is as work dematerializes, okay, what used to take you five days, you're soon going to be able to do in one day. That's going to happen before the end of this year with agentic AI. So what you take five days, you can now do in one day. So if you want to keep yourself busy, you don't need to. But let's say you still want to work a decent thirty to thirty-five hour week. You could have business one, okay? That's the boring moneymaker, business two. On Tuesdays, that's the purpose. Business three on Wednesdays, not purpose, not money, just something you love. Thursdays could be for opportunity. Fridays, you can focus on something else or just not do anything and embrace that.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  That's where we're going. So that that brings us to A, abundance, right? Abundance is this. So, you know, I remember when I was first starting out. I was in Malaysia and I go to the KLCC mall. Back then, it was one of the biggest malls in the world. This is before Dubai Mall was built with the Twin Towers, tallest buildings in the world. The mall is filled with the most luxurious stores and I go into the store called Zenya. So I go there and I'm just browsing and I'm a kid, I'm maybe twenty-eight something. And the shopkeeper comes to me and I'm dressed really plain. And she goes in a Malaysian accent, I'm Malaysian, so I can do this accent. She goes, excuse me, sir.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Uh, this store not for you because you cannot buy anything here. Everything here very expensive. And I was pissed. I was pissed.

• 49:12André Duqum?

  The balls, the ovaries on that leg.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  Straight out of that store. Um, now, flash forward over a decade later. The little, so back then I was just teaching meditation. I, I'd pathetic money. All of a sudden, the day my company did over a hundred million in one year. Okay, I decide, now at that point, I'm living in Dubai. I decided I'm going to go to Dubai Mall. I'm going to go to Zenya and I'm going to pick up something. Because that shopkeeper, her words were still in my head. So I go to Zenia and I see the most amazing white sweater. And I tried on and my God, that sweater was so good. It looked so good on my body. It felt so amazing.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  As I'm gonna pay for it, I look at the price tag. A thousand bucks. And I'm thinking, what the fuck? Is this made from like unicorn fur? I am not paying a thousand bucks for a sweater when I can buy something that's 95% as good for a hundred bucks from H and M. So I don't buy the sweater. I walked straight out of that Zenia store. But I realized something that day. I was limiting my abundance with that attitude. See, about a year later, I was talking to Marie Diamond. She's a spiritual teacher, one of the teachers in Mindvalley. And Marie explained it to me. She said, abundance is an energy flow. Okay, and for abundance to come to you, you gotta give abundance. This is why Muslim people believe in Saka. When they give money, more money comes to them.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  When you spend money, more money comes to you. I'm not saying spend everything. I mean, definitely like have savings, like invest. But you gotta keep money flowing. That's abundance. And to keep money flowing, what Marie told me is, she said, Vishen, you're too comfortable. Expand your desire. So at that point, I had a beautiful apartment. I loved my apartment. There was nothing else I needed. But income wise, I was not growing. She said, I want you buy a new apartment. I want you to then, and then she looked at my watch. I was wearing a $200 watch from, I hate to say it, from a duty free store in Istanbul airport. She said, Vishen,

• 51:26Speaker 02

  I need you to go. So I met her in the south of France, near Nice. And she said, I need you to go to Monaco. There's a Cartier store there. Buy a watch. It cannot be less than $5,000. So I bought this Cartier. This is six grand. Then she said, show me your wallet. I show her my wallet. She's like, what the hell are you doing? You're disrespecting money. Go and buy a proper wallet. Right next to the Cartier store, there's a Giorgio Armani store. So I buy an Armani wallet. Marie made me do all of that and she said vision, spend. So I decide, now I go and I buy an apartment in Dubai. A multimillion dollar apartment. Then I go and I buy, this was a dumb one, but I bought a plane. Right for short air travel in Europe. Ended up selling that for a loss.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Stupid idea, don't buy planes. Bought another apartment, massively luxurious apartment, one of the most glorious buildings in the world. And as I did that, guess what happened Andre? Company started doing better and better and better. More and more and more money flew to me. My royalty rates from book sales and teachings went up. Profits from the company channel back to me, my stock portfolio exploded. Even the company, the property I bought grew forty percent in valuation in just twenty four months. Money and abundance are a cycle. Now the mistake people make is because of culture. I grew up in immigrant culture. Immigrant culture say save, save, save. Bad times are going to happen, save, save, save.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  That's may have been okay, okay, in, in, in the nineteen fifties and sixties. Still have some money, you know, in case things go wrong, don't, don't be living in debt. But have goals for what you want. The beautiful house, the good clothing, the latest iPhone, the nice car. When you have those goals, you're basically telling the universe, this is what I desire. And you're giving the universe space to expand your ideas, space to expand your business. You're allowing your intuition to channel through you. Cause you know one funny thing about intuition? Intuition needs a direction. It's often not just random. When you set a goal, I want to earn this much.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  The ideas come to you through intuition to get you to that goal. You gotta give your mind a compass direction. That's why setting goals for abundance are important. But no, it's not just abundance. Many people make this mistake, they're just all about the possessions. And so they run out of time, they lack passion, they don't do what they love. They don't have a simple business, they don't have opportunity, they are tied to their job. Their job has become a golden handcuff. Don't do that. That's why soul pack is eight things and abundance is only number six right now.

• 54:11André Duqum?

  It's fascinating because I've spoken to many, I guess affluent abundant individuals and there's many different perspectives on our relationship to money, to material possessions. I think that it's important to have our external reality and the things that we wear and the places that we live as best as we can to be a reflection of the abundance in which we want to call more of in. And at the same time, what we lack in resources, we make up for in resourcefulness. While I agree with you on the notion of investing in things that make you feel abundant and that there's reciprocity and you're not hoarding money, you know, and you let it flow and you invest into things that you believe in and, you know, you can buy nice things

• 54:56André Duqum?

  and not feel shameful about it. And at the same time, I think there is the mindful consumerism piece as well because it can be very easy to slip into being possessed by your possessions.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Very true.

• 55:08André Duqum?

  So yeah, it's a good balance. So what are the last two?

• 55:12Speaker 02

  Calmness is the C, P A C T, so purpose, abundance, calmness. Make time for calmness. Every given day, you gotta give your body at least an hour for meditation, massage, therapy. People are starting to become aware of this. This is why longevity centers have become a really hot business. They're booming all around the world. I mean, I'm visiting LA right now. I booked an Airbnb right next to a longevity center because it's so easy for me to go there and be in an oxygen chamber or do red light therapy. Just to let my body be calm. That's so important.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  You know, one thing I like about you, Andres, before we did this interview, you put me on that massage chair for five minutes, that vibrating massage chair. That was embracing calmness. Calmness is so important. When we can treat our bodies with respect and allow our bodies to just, just release tension, to self calibrate, to soothe, that's gonna fuel us for the rest of the day. So an hour of calmness a day, I believe. Will lead to, even if you have an eight hour day, the old paradigm of doing things, you take an hour away for calmness. In the next seven hours, you will outdo what you would have done in eight hours.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  We see this, there are actually numerous meditation studies that talk about this, that prove this. Tried, I've experienced this in my life, makes such a difference. And the T of the calmness is time. Set a goal for time. And that goal looks like this, I only work X hours a week. Let's stop, let's stop trying to glorify hustle culture. Okay, hustle culture is a thing of the past. It doesn't apply anymore. Stop trying to glorify it. I am choosing now to build beautiful businesses that can change the world. So I have all the abundance I want. I have the purpose I want.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  I love what I do, but I'm choosing to do it in under thirty five hours a week. And for the first time in human history, because of AI, this is now possible.

• 57:27André Duqum?

  You're right, I love how invigorated you are by AI. Like it's, it's, it seems like it's really taking.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  Well, remember, I'm a meditation teacher and a computer engineer. Right, I'm a, I'm a zen geek.

• 57:39André Duqum?

  Yeah, you know, it's, it's great. I, I love that. And we, I think, are going to experience again, one of the biggest shifts humanity has ever seen over the course of the next five years. And so it's hard to not be captured by the, all the revolutions in technology and all the changes that are coming. I do think that relationship to time, how we spend it is really important. And there is this transition of seeing, trading time in for money and, and, and this notion of hard work versus smart work. And so what, what is the big shift there in terms of this notion of feeling like we have to work hard in order to see a reflection of abundance in our life?

• 58:23André Duqum?

  The word before that you used, which is finding your sense of calm and creating a, you know, at least an hour a day for you to kind of focus, not on just what you're doing, but also the energy in which what is being done, you know? And that's also why I put you in that vibration chair beforehand. It's partly what I would want as an interviewee, if someone who was interviewing me, like, especially after a long drive or travel, allowing your state to come into a space that is going to inform all the thoughts and words and all that you're going to do in the world and in this podcast, for example. And so I think that's just an example here, but like in our own life, we can create those practices and create space for that to align ourselves into that sense of calm and quietness

• 59:05André Duqum?

  within so that we can make choices that have an exponential effect and they're more of like a 10x instead of a 2x. So what comes to mind there in that transition from hard work?

• 59:15Speaker 02

  Well, hard work is a ridiculously obsolete concept. It just doesn't apply in the world anymore. And you can test this for yourself. I read about this billionaire who's spending a hundred million dollars to restore his health. He got sidetracked, overworked himself, lost his health. He's now decided that he's gonna help working, spending a hundred million dollars to restore his health. No matter how rich you are, if you lose your health, you will give anything to get that back. But our schooling system doesn't train us for this. What was the last longevity class you took in high school?

• 59:59Speaker 02

  Nothing, but tons of classes on how you can be a good obedient employee, right? And then let's look at relationships. If I was in a situation where I either never see my children again, or my business completely vanishes and I have to work, you know, like a regular job just to survive, but I would have my kids, I don't even have to think about it. My children are more important than my business.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  And so, as human beings, we, we understand this. Our bodies are important, our relationships are important, our love is more important, our peace of mind is more important, but in society, we fail to make time for that. Work seems to expand and fill up right now seventy percent of our waking hours. This is what I'm trying to wake people up to. I think one of the most important things governments can do right now, and I mean right now, as in this year, is mandate a four-hour work week. And by twenty thirty, reduce that, sorry, a four-day work week, mandatory.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  It should be illegal to ask employees to work more than, um, more than four days a week, same pay. By twenty thirty, take that down to a three-day work week. By twenty thirty-five, take it down to a two-day work week. Work will still get done. It's just that technology is progressing so fast, human beings are not going to be required for that work. And if we did this, I mean, if we just move to a four-day work week right now, it's not easy. Like, if I tried to do this with my employees, what will happen is our competitors would crush us because they're not going to do it. But if it was mandated by law, this has to be the mission of government. If it was mandated by law and everyone's doing it, think about what this would do for America.

• 1:01:52Speaker 02

  Health would go up because we have more time to focus on our health, whether it's going to the gym, or it's taking a nice long run, or it's longevity therapies. The way we raise our kids would change because moms and dads are no longer coming home stressed. They have a day, an extra day, to spend time with their children. And while we're doing that, we should also reduce, potentially reduce the school week to four hour, to four days a week. Why the school, why is school five, five days a week? Well, because, you know, adults work five days a week. This gives parents, moms and dads and their kids more time together. The next thing governments should do is start investing in social spaces,

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  parks, town squares, walkable cities. So, human beings can come together and connect. That's going to be really important in an age of AI. In an age where you don't have to go to an office anymore. And so, this has to start happening at a governmental level. But this is inevitable. We have to do this. If we don't do this, we are going to be exacerbating what's already happening, which is massive layoffs due to AI. Most companies I know are not hiring and are laying off.

• 1:03:06André Duqum?

  It does seem like there's a big distillation process happening in terms of a mass amount of jobs that are either currently or about to be replaced by that. But then again, it, every challenge has the unique polarity of the opportunity that it presents itself. And for us as human beings, that's like, okay, then what is my unique edge? What, in what ways can I contribute uniquely? That is not something that a robot can just do.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:03:36André Duqum?

  Yeah. I'm curious, as somebody who's built systems within an organization and company that's scaled so large, if somebody was to eavesdrop and spy on to the internal systems and culture that's been created within what you've created, what do you think would be the most surprising observation that they would have about, yeah, about the systems and culture behind the scenes that really enables so much success to happen?

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think if you were to look at my company, what you would see is how rapidly we leverage AI. We've been shrinking the company. We went from 400 people to now 240, and it's going to continue shrinking. When we let people go, we ensure that they have a good severance. There's also natural turnover. But I believe we'll be able to significantly increase revenues and do it with under 100 people, but a swarm of AI agents. And so, we have a central AI called Aura. And Aura allows all our employees to assemble data and then work with, create AI assistants that can help them with their work. And Aura's getting so powerful, work is disappearing. It's dematerializing.

• 1:04:43André Duqum?

  And it's, I'm really excited. What do you think life's going to be like 15 years from now?

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  15 years from now, ideally. Ideally, we will be, have a work week of two to three days a week. Governments would have wised up and they would have started investing not in roads, but in public transportation, walkable cities, town squares, city centers, places where human beings come together. It's sort of like the European model, right? Where, you know, in Europe, cities frequently have these beautiful spaces for, for people to collide. That's going to be so important. Longevity therapies and health are going to be booming. Personal growth is going to be booming. Because with all of this extra time in your hands, what you want to do is you want to make,

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  you want to create a population that's not going to be immersed in a virtual world as much, but also emerged in the physical world. But ultimately, what's going to happen is we are going to be living in two different worlds. Fifteen years from now, the holodeck from Star Trek will be real. We'll be able to go into fully immersive virtual worlds. VR, AR glasses will be like regular glasses. You'll be able to sit in a chair, put on these like light headsets, tactile, you'll be able to feel things and you'll be able to be in, in completely virtual worlds. But there's a danger there and that is a loss of human connection.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  So you want to ensure, and that's why I'm saying town squares, like physical spaces where people can bump into each other. Otherwise, what we're going to see is less dating, less connection, birth rates going down, right? Now, the other thing that's going to happen is humanoid robot. Almost everyone is going to have a humanoid robot. Pretty much as much as, as popular as we see people with dogs and cats right now. You'll have, uh, factories will be completely robotic. So all of this thing Trump is saying about bringing the jobs back to America, no. Those jobs, even in China, so Americans are clueless about this. Factories in China are not run by human beings anymore. I'm sure you've seen the virulities of the new Huawei factory. It's run completely by robot. Do you know what's the poverty rate in China right now?

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  Well, let me ask you this. What's the poverty rate in America? Extreme poverty.

• 1:07:01André Duqum?

  Uh, what is the extreme poverty rate? I'm not, I'm not sure.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  About 2%.

• 1:07:04André Duqum?

  Okay.

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  2%, so 1 in 50 Americans live in extreme poverty. You know what's the poverty rate in China? Zero. China has virtually eliminated extreme poverty. China, the reason for the Trump tariffs, some people say, is not for jobs to come back to America because no one American, no American wants those factory jobs. Even the Chinese aren't doing them anymore. Robots are doing them. It's to create a robotics industry here. So that people like Elon Musk and his, you know, the robots that he's creating, they can start manufacturing in America. Robots manufacturing robots. Robots manufacturing everything we need. What I think they haven't thought about is what will happen to the workers, the blue collar workers. And this is where universal basic income has to happen.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  It is inevitable. It has to happen.

• 1:07:52André Duqum?

  Some people really don't like that idea.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  That's because of a bullshit American rule that you have to work hard to mean something. Absolute nonsense. That, that, that's an American thing which, which I think America has to, has to self-examine itself and pull itself out of that stupidity.

• 1:08:10André Duqum?

  What do you think about this? I mean, that we can, this is a rabbit hole we could go down.

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  So you're building a future society. The most important thing is this, okay?

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  Even if you disagree with universal basic income, there are four things we have to do. Everyone should have, every child should have the right to education. Not just at the age of seven, but you know, at the age of three, preschool. Everyone should have access to healthcare. Everyone should have access to food. And everyone should have a roof. If we're not doing universal basic income, provide that for, that has to be the mission of government.

• 1:08:44André Duqum?

  Yeah, fulfill basic needs.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  This ridiculous idea of, oh, you gotta pull yourself up by your bootstraps, right?

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  It is fucking insane how America treats people.

• 1:08:55André Duqum?

  I agree, no, I agree.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  And by the way, the rest of the world sees this and they realize this. They look at the data and the metrics on America.

• 1:09:03André Duqum?

  Yeah, yeah. What do you think? How do you think education in particular is going to be revolutionized? Because I know you've been spending the past couple of decades.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  Every child is going to have a AI-based tutor. So here's how education is going to work. Firstly, early brain entrainment training. So, you know, I investigated when my son was born, I went and I investigated facilities around the world where they were training kids to develop superior cognitive skills. Institutions such as the Doeman Institute. So the Doeman Institute, they started working with kids who had brain damage, like literally kids who were born with with half their brain destroyed. They were able to get these kids back to normal functioning with half the brain matter. That's how incredible the human brain is before the age of six. Now, when they started doing it with regular kids, and I went to visit, and this was wild. When they started doing the same form of training with regular kids,

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  these kids developed genius abilities. I met kids who could do complex map calculations in their head with no calculator. I met kids who could quote Shakespeare. I met a five-year-old who was reading the book Shogun. I asked him, well, you know, that book Shogun is has some adult parts. What do you do? He goes, oh, when I come to an adult part, I just turn the page and I skip it. It was really cute. So I took some of those methodologies, I applied it on my son. Um, we didn't do it as vigorously as Doeman, but my son, he scores off the charts. He speaks seven languages right now. His schoolteacher calls him a mathematical genius.

• 1:10:32André Duqum?

  How old is he?

• 1:10:33Speaker 02

  Well, at the age of sixteen, he scored in the top point two five percent of his SATs. I did it in year one.

• 1:10:39André Duqum?

  A lot of languages.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  Thirty minutes, year one, year one, using using flip cards, Doeman method. This is going to become more and more prevalent. So human beings are going to become smarter. Now, the next thing that that's happening is, within fifteen years, we will have brain-to-AI interfaces, super tiny, attached to your head, and they will allow you to control the AI around your room.

• 1:11:00André Duqum?

  How long will you wait before you personally get that implanted?

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  It's it's going to be, it's not an implant. It's a tiny prick, tiny prick. It's so you don't even feel it, and it's the size of a human hair. It's literally like a hair.

• 1:11:13André Duqum?

  Mm hmm. What do you think about the potential loss of human faculties?

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  Not gonna happen.

• 1:11:19André Duqum?

  In the sense of if you don't use it, you lose it.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  Not gonna happen.

• 1:11:22André Duqum?

  In what regard it's not gonna happen?

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  It's not gonna happen because what's going to happen is rather than simply use our eyes and our hands to interact with AI, the user interface is going to be different. I've already been forty years of Zen where they use biofeedback, twelve-point hats around your head that train your brain to improve its efficiency and function like the brain of a Zen Roshi monk. Our brain does not differentiate between the twelve points of electrodes on my head and my actual hands. It's using those twelve points to self-regulate itself and then influence computers. This is the unique feature about the human brain. It's crazy.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  Now, all that's gonna happen is the brain-computer interface is going to empower our brain to work in new ways. We will have something called ambient AI. Your computer is not on your desk. Your computer is the room. That room, using sensors, using video, will not only help you self-regulate. So for example, you might hear a voice saying, Andre, I noticed that based on the slight flush on the skin on your cheeks, your heart rate has gone up. Would you like me to power up the massage chair for you?

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  Okay, so what happens is ambient AI is watching us with our permission, taking care of us. And when you need to get something done, not a computer, you can be sitting out having a cup of coffee, you just speak it into existence and the AI creates it. This is becoming faster and faster and faster. Three weeks ago, I spent fifteen hours with a tool called Replit. I've forgotten how to code because I graduated computer engineering school twenty-five years ago, but I built in just fifteen hours some Replit, an insanely advanced app to function as my medical doctor because I was tired of dealing with human doctors, right? And so this is the world we're going into.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  You will speak things into existence. Work is going to disappear.

• 1:13:38André Duqum?

  What is, what do you think is the end goal of the age of AI? Do you feel like there's the singularity is like, is very much so upon us?

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:47André Duqum?

  You do?

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  I don't think the age of AI has an end goal, but we human beings need to. What we need to start looking at is how to reorganize Earth civilization to be more functional. Now, we are making good progress. We don't see this in the news. Can you guess the number of people in the world right now that are living in poverty? It's nine percent. It's nine percent, right? But most people assume it's 40%.

• 1:14:13André Duqum?

  And what, what degree of poverty would you say, like extreme poverty?

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  So under, under $2 a day.

• 1:14:19André Duqum?

  Okay.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  It's nine percent.

• 1:14:21André Duqum?

  Got it.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  Right? Poverty, it used to be 40%.

• 1:14:24André Duqum?

  So that's

• 1:14:25Speaker 02

  Just 25 years ago.

• 1:14:26André Duqum?

  Like over 700 million people.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:14:28André Duqum?

  It's a lot.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Exactly. So our world is getting better and better, faster. Populations are, also the population crisis isn't going to happen. We're about to plateau in terms of population. So that's a good thing. But what we've got to be

• 1:14:40André Duqum?

  Some people say it's a really bad thing, but it's controversial.

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Not necessarily with those people.

• 1:14:44André Duqum?

  We'll sidebar that.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  But what we've got to be paying attention to is the quality of our world, the quality of our water, the quality of, of nature. So one of the things that's pretty unfortunate right now is 90% of all biomass in the world is biomass to feed human beings. So if you look at all the animals, all the animals, all the plants in the world, 90% of it is stuff for us to consume. 10% of it is that. It's just plants existing, right? And so, sorry, I'm talking about animals here, not plants, animals, biomass. And that's an unfortunate thing. We have to start creating more beautiful wild spaces where we can go and be one with nature again. So we need to start looking at reengineering the world.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  Now, part of this also means reengineering countries. We have to start breaking down borders. And this means countries have to stop worrying, populations have to stop worrying about things such as illegal immigration.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  Do you know what percentage of the world actually lives in the country outside they were born in? 3%. It's nothing. And that's including nations like the EU, right? We don't have a world where people are just flooding across borders. We don't have a world of poor people that are that are producing more kids than what Westerners think is necessary. A lot of that is myth created by politicians to create fear because fear keeps them in power. What we need to start looking at is a world with regions like the UN. America, Canada, and Mexico, remove the borders, have trade treaties, sort of like how the EU functions. That will actually increase wealth, GDP, diversity, food quality for everyone.

• 1:16:35Speaker 02

  Now, I'm not talking about one world. That would be dangerous. You don't want one leader of one world. You know, that's like Palpatine from Star Wars. But what we should be looking at is regional unions, an African union, a Southeast Asian union, an East Asia union, a South Asian union, a North American union, South American union. That will allow a world where there's greater equality, where there is greater diversity, there's more peace, and it will prevent, it will allow us to make better choices for our our our children.

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• 1:18:10André Duqum?

  It's really exciting to see what's going to unravel over the next 10 years. Like, I just think it's gotta be one of the greatest times to be alive, you know? What we're seeing the birth of. I want to bring this down to more of the individual because we've been a little bit more on the macro side of things. Is that cool?

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:18:25André Duqum?

  So you've been working with, for the, over the past decade, some of the, you know, most incredible teachers in the personal development spiritual space. You've been able to bring them on your platform, have them speak at events, build courses, and connect with them, become friends with them, you know, and learn, and learn from them. What has that revealed to you about what human genius is? Like, when you work with people who are at the top of their field and have really discovered their unique edge to the top degree, in terms of like what they're here to do to support the planet, what really makes it?

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  If anything, it's made me understand that being human is so much more complex than what we think it is. Because I have brilliant engineers, teachers, Keith Farazzi, people like, like Stephen Kotler, incredible, left-brained people, right? They're the ones who you read business books about. They lecture at Singularity University in Abundance 360, amazing folks. But I also meet teachers who work with intuition. And they have a different type of intelligence, intuitive intelligence. They just know things. And this, this is incredible. They just know things. And then I meet people who are relational.

• 1:19:42Speaker 02

  And they, they feel things in a different way. They are so acute at looking at you and knowing how you're doing, and being able to intervene, to soothe you, to help you feel better. And they teach other people these skills. And then I meet people who are extremely aware of the body's energy.

• 1:20:02Speaker 02

  People like Jeffrey Allen, not some of them can see energy. So they know if you have an illness because they can literally see an energy pattern. But they can also, or Lee Holden, the Qi Gong master, work with energy and then move that energy over your body and you feel it. And then I meet people who have body kinesthetic intelligence, people like Ben Greenfield, who was one of American Fitness Trainer of the Year at one point. Guys who can run extreme ultra marathons and their bodies are just like world-class machines. And you start to understand that being human is so much more, more diverse than what we think it is.

• 1:20:44André Duqum?

  There's a few incredible books around multiple intelligences and Frames of Mind, I believe by Gardner, who talks just about how we have primarily these eight different categories of kinesthetic intelligence to musical intelligence to logical, mathematical intelligence.

• 1:20:59Speaker 02

  But he misses out intuitive intelligence and energy intelligence. Intuitive intelligence is the ability to tap into source. Energy intelligence is the ability to feel energy and work with that energy. It's what Qi Gong masters have.

• 1:21:12André Duqum?

  What would be interesting is to examine how all those forms of intelligence, for example, musical, logical, mathematical, kinesthetic, they all have intuitive aspects of them. And when you go deeper into any field, you can see how your connection to source, if you will, your intuitive capacities help amplify you, become one of one, unique, discover that unique edge in that field. You know, I think musicians are really known for getting quiet in a space and they have, they have these melodies, melodic tendencies come to them or certain rhythms that end up being, you know, world hits. We, you work with energy healers, body workers that have this sort of intelligence about them and how they navigate your body or the body, the intelligence of that.

• 1:21:57André Duqum?

  Great physicists and mathematicians have gone into this space, you know, as well, like Albert Einstein and Newton and so many great thinkers of the past and have leveraged that too. So I, I think of that as a, as a sort of positioning and, and way to amplify any of those intelligence.

• 1:22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I think you're absolutely right there.

• 1:22:16André Duqum?

  Mm hmm. I think one other thing that's important to talk about with you because you've been a big orchestrator of communities. And I think in a time where there is sort of this perceived split happening of like this virtual world that we're getting more and more immersed in, it runs the tendency or the capacity for us to lose the physical connections and how important that is for not only our health, but so many aspects of life. And so what is the importance and power of community in your eyes?

• 1:22:49Speaker 02

  I think community is what really makes us human. Human beings are like ants. We function best when we are within a group. We collaborate, we love, we connect. This is why so many studies show that loneliness is so bad and damaging for our health and our happiness. And I mean, just aside some of the studies, Harvard, loneliness is worse for you than smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. Another study by Gallup showed that if you work in a company and you have a best friend in that company, meaning deep human connection, your engagement at your job is up 7,000%.

• 1:23:31Speaker 02

  And then, of course, there are all of the studies on love that show when you have someone you love, life is just so much better. Your health is better. Married people live longer, happiness levels are better. There are studies that show that people who go to church or mosque or temple, because they're coming together as a community, just have higher levels of happiness. And so we are built, we are built as a species to be collaborative. And what we've got to pay attention to is in a world of remote work, in a world of AI, in a world of virtual reality, we cannot lose that.

• 1:24:08André Duqum?

  We all have our unique gifts and how we want to contribute to the world. And some people have a great gift of being a bridge for other people to, in creating containers and spaces for people to meet who have like my similar interests and aligned values and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious how you see your role in, in the next like decade too, in the evolution of Mindvalley. I know you talked about the internal changes within the team and everything as AI grows. But what is your unique contribution that you feel in the next 10 years?

• 1:24:35Speaker 02

  Well, what I'm trying to do is based on my understanding of futurism, where technologies are converging, and my understanding of the human mind and society. What I'm trying to do is do my part to help human beings take the right action so that we truly build a world that's great for our health, our hearts, our emotions, primarily our children. We're not doing that right now. And so countries need to operate in a different way. Companies need to change the way they work with employees. Governments, regional, national, they need to start thinking differently. The problem is, so much of the world is trapped in old paradigms. The voting public need to be smarter at who they are voting for.

• 1:25:20Speaker 02

  I see my job as helping spread awareness of how we can make the right choices towards building a better world.

• 1:25:27André Duqum?

  One aspect of that, because I love that beautiful, noble mission of yours. And one thing, and because we're in a similar space in terms of the industry and the people that we work with and are connected to. There is this amazing thing that happens when an entrepreneur creates a platform for scaling mindfulness and understanding and insights for well-being. How that becomes a touch point for so many people to discover the tools and knowledge for their own personal path of self-actualization and healing, and also beautiful and important, where we can run the risk, I suppose, of this sort of notion of

• 1:26:08André Duqum?

  commodified spirituality, where consumerism captures spirituality for its benefit. There's obviously, there's a light and there's a shadow for all of this. But what are your thoughts on the potential pitfall of this commodified spirituality that can become pretty solipsistic and all about self? And how do you plan to guard against that?

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:26:37Speaker 02

  Spirituality itself as a word is really hard to define, right? People define it differently.

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  What we want to avoid is spirituality that takes away your human ability to make your own choices, make your own decisions, and live life your way. And a lot of spirituality right now put you in boxes. Follow these rules, follow this dogma. These are the commandments. These are your people. Don't betray your people. Don't love other people outside that box. That's what we have to clear up. So true spirituality is one thing. It's unity. It's not unity with just people with your skin color, or unity with people who follow your rulebook, or unity with people within your border. It is unity, period. Unity with all human beings and all life.

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  True spirituality has no borders. Ken Wilber, the philosopher, says that's moving from ethnocentrism to world centrism to cosmocentrism. Cosmocentrism is where we want to be. This is where we see unity with the entire world. If you're making decisions based on concepts like country, or tribe, or religious groups, you're already obsolete. You're living in an outdated modality of the world. There's one thing we have to be headed for as human beings right now, and that is global unity. I don't give a fuck about any single country. The only flag I would wear on my chest is the Earth flag. And by the way, that does exist.

• 1:28:09Speaker 02

  This is why I have multiple residencies in multiple countries. I love all of them. But I would never, ever, ever identify as a person of one single nation. Earth first, unity first. That needs to be the aim of true spirituality. Anything that tells you otherwise is limiting you.

• 1:28:29André Duqum?

  How do you, what do you think is going to be the process of religions dismantling, coming to a sort of...

• 1:28:36Speaker 02

  Religions are going to merge.

• 1:28:38André Duqum?

  Merge?

• 1:28:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:40André Duqum?

  That's quite an...

• 1:28:40Speaker 02

  Religions are going to merge.

• 1:28:41André Duqum?

  In what way?

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  It's already doing it.

• 1:28:43André Duqum?

  You mean like dissolve?

• 1:28:44Speaker 02

  It's gonna, they're gonna dissolve. They're gonna have porous borders. Borders need to become porous. When we talk about things like tariffs, we are hardening borders. Everyone suffers. It puts us in a us versus them mentality. It's backward thinking. Dumb ideas. Same thing happens to religions. When we say, oh, you know... You need to marry someone with this particular fate, or our laws are better than their laws. Look at what's happening in the Middle East right now with Israel and Palestine. I mean, that whole war, those tens of thousands of people dead, those thousands of people kidnapped, murdered, all of that happened because people had different definitions of God.

• 1:29:31Speaker 02

  What I believe God really wants, what spirituality really wants, is for us to stop having allegiance to our spiritual books that is artificial, it's outdated, but start having allegiance to earth and the human race. That's what centrism. We move there, we build a better world.

• 1:29:52André Duqum?

  Yeah, it can get quite idealistic unless you understand the process of human development and the human developmental journey, and also how it can be quite a messy process as a birth of a new way of being is born, you know? Just like the birth of any new being is born, it's quite messy. And in that transition from ethnocentrism to world centrism to cosmic centrism.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  The answer is very simple. Stop raising your kids with your religion.

• 1:30:22Speaker 02

  What makes you think your religion is the one? My children get to choose their own religion.

• 1:30:26André Duqum?

  The reason there is because people believe religions to be true. That's why they, you know, they're believer of that particular religion. And so I do, I do think-

• 1:30:35Speaker 02

  Religion is beautiful. I love, there are so many practices right now from different religions which are mixing. I'm mixing Kabbalah with aspects from Islam, aspects from Hinduism, Christianity. I've been indoctrinated in different religions. I'm exploring Buddhism right now. That's the way it should be. Would you want to eat one food for the rest of your life? But the biggest thing, okay? If, if, if, if you ask me, how do I know when I'm moving up the ladder of spirituality, you stop telling your kids that you are Muslim, or you are Jewish, or you are Hindu, or you are Christian? You stop that. You let your child grow up to decide for themselves. Teach them goodness, teach them humility, teach them kindness, teach them unity.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  But don't teach them that this book is the one, and everything else is not good.

• 1:31:28André Duqum?

  I think it's Saint Francis of Assisi who talks to, says that quote paraphrasing, "Preach everywhere you go and when necessary, use words." Right? Meaning, "Make your life a living expression of that to which you believe to be true." And if that is certain qualities and values of emanations of Christ's consciousness, of love, of unity, then by your actions, like you should be known for that. I'm curious about your own thoughts around, and this is kind of my last question and thought for you around all this, is the nature of ego and how you relate to it and this idealized notion of egolessness, but also leveraging ego mindfully as you're building the way

• 1:32:11André Duqum?

  that you are in the world. How do you come to relate and think about ego?

• 1:32:15Speaker 02

  So ego is your mind attached to a singular identity and stubborn towards any movement that might allow expansion. So ego might say, "Listen, I'm a lawyer. I've worked so hard for this. I have my law practice. And you're telling me that I should now cut down my working hours to 20 to 25 hours a week? Why would I do that?" Ego is this, is this, ego is bad when it's, when it causes a fear of you losing identity. But to really be an advanced human being, you gotta be fluid. You gotta be open. You gotta be willing to dump what doesn't serve you. You gotta be willing to question yourself,

• 1:32:58Speaker 02

  identify your own bruis, understand your beliefs about the world, whether these beliefs are relative truth or absolute truth. Constantly upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. Ego locks you down. And so when we talk about dismantling the ego, that's what we're really talking about. The ego isn't bad. Ego is part of your identity, but ego has to be fluid. Ego can't slam the door. Ego has to occasionally open the door for new ideas.

• 1:33:25André Duqum?

  Yeah, just like a flexible body is less is less prone to injury. So our minds, as they stay flexible, are with life. What does it mean for you to know thyself?

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  To know thyself means to fully understand what makes you you. And that means being aware of your trauma, your pain, being aware of what you experienced as a child and the meanings you made about it. And by being aware of that, we give ourselves permission to grow out of it, to expand in different ways. To know thyself is to expand thyself.

• 1:34:09André Duqum?

  This was a great convo, man. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much, man. You got this event next week. I'm excited for you. I think I'll come pop by.

• 1:34:17Speaker 02

  That'll be amazing. I'd love to see you there.

• 1:34:18André Duqum?

  And yeah, many more adventures to come, man. I appreciate you. Any last words you have for the audience or anything before we close out?

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  I think we're good.

• 1:34:24André Duqum?

  I think we're good. All right, everyone. Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Know Thyself Podcast. Until next time, be well.

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