Pod Insights Killer Stories with Harvey Guillén Visionary Killer: Joe Kallinger About this episode The visionary killer blames their crimes on an external force – an apparition who commands them to kill. In Joseph Kallinger’s case, multiple entities urging him to commit arson… and then, to kill everyone on planet Earth.
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0:04 Speaker 00 Imagine being ordered to kill innocent people. The command comes from someone bigger, more powerful, maybe even God himself. If you don't obey, they'll torment you until you do. It's a terrifying inspiration for movies like Drop and The Belko Experiment and the Black Mirror episode Demon 79. But for some serial killers, that's their reality, or so they say. According to criminologists Ronald Holmes and Stephen Holmes, these killers report visions of a higher power, perhaps God, the devil, or a demon. The power orders them to kill, so at the first opportunity, they obey. They're called visionary killers.
0:48 Speaker 00 Their crime scenes are chaotic, their methods inconsistent. They stay local, but they're still hard to track. The victims are anyone they can overpower. Once apprehended, most are diagnosed with a mental illness that causes hallucinations. But until then, they murder in a deal with their personal devil. Like today's killer, he once claimed a being named Charlie ordered him to kill everyone on Earth so he could become a god. Welcome to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. Every Monday, we bring you the true crime stories that stand out. I'm Janice Morgan. We'd love to hear from you. Follow us on Instagram at SerialKillersPodcast and share your thoughts on this week's episode.
1:31 Speaker 00 Or if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and leave a comment. This episode contains discussions of murder, violence against children, sexual assault, and suicide. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. To get help on mental health and suicide, visit spotify.com/resources. Stay with us.
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4:25 Speaker 00 This is the second episode in our summer series on the Holmes & Holmes Killer typology, where we're covering their six different categories of serial killers. If you want more info on the typology and its history, check out our first episode on Ted Bundy.
4:41 Speaker 00 Today, we're diving into the visionary killer archetype. Holmes & Holmes say this is the hardest killer to understand. These killers usually experience a "break with reality" that can require mental health treatment. And because of that, each visionary killer has their own personal motive to kill. Today's killer, Joseph Kallinger, called his Charlie, but he also claimed to hear the voice of God and demons.
5:06 Speaker 00 It started in Philadelphia in the 1940s. The demons started speaking to Joe Kallinger when he was 12. At least, he said it was demons. Throughout his life, Joe reported what seemed like visual and auditory hallucinations. And after his eventual arrest, multiple psychologists diagnosed him with schizophrenia. However, other psychologists examined Joe and claimed he faked his mental health condition. Either way, Joe claimed he heard a voice telling him to cut someone. And when he heard the voice, Joe obeyed. He boarded a bus, searching for a target. As he rode through the city, he spotted a boy about his age walking beside the highway. Joe got off the bus and caught up to him. He convinced the boy to come with him to a nearby
5:51 Speaker 00 creek. When they got there, Joe pulled out a knife and instructed the boy to pull down his pants. Confused, the boy hesitated, but when Joe brought the knife closer, he obliged, pulling down his pants and underpants. Joe slid the knife back into his pocket and ran away, leaving his victim unharmed. But when it was over, Joe felt both shame and terror. He felt like he was being controlled by a powerful force, like he was a puppet and the voice in his head was pulling the strings. Over the years, the voices in Joe's head persisted, and they ordered him to find more targets, which he did. At least three more times, he cornered other children, threatened them with a knife, then ran away.
6:35 Speaker 00 Now, Joe was no stranger to violence. His parents abused him, once intentionally burning his fingers over an open stove flame. But in his early years, he limited his own violence to intimidation. In September 1951, 15-year-old Joe was working alone in his parents' shoe shop, where he crafted shoes and orthopedic inserts. A light appeared before him, revealing a figure in white. The apparition told Joe that he was God, and he had a special mission for him. God told Joe it was his duty to heal humanity by healing their feet. Through his expertise in orthotics, Joe would cure mankind of all the ills that plagued their hearts and minds.
7:18 Speaker 00 Joe wasn't about to ignore his God-given assignment. He told no one about what he'd seen, but he got straight to work creating new orthotic experiments he believed would one day save the world. Joe spent the next seven years working at the shoe shop, getting married, twice, and having two children. In 1959, he had another vision. Once again, he was working alone. A dark figure in a black coat and a witch's hat approached. The figure told Joe to burn down his own house. That afternoon, Joe headed home. He went into the shed at the back of the house, lit a pack of matches, and tossed it into a can of paint thinner. The shed burnt down, taking part of the house with it. Investigators determined the fire was an accident,
8:03 Speaker 00 and Joe collected $1,900 in insurance money.
8:08 Speaker 00 After the fire, Joe and his family moved. In their new home, he installed a 12-foot-long, 4-foot-wide bowling lane in his bedroom. Almost every night, Joe bowled, usually after midnight and into the early morning hours. In another room, he had his children dig a tunnel into the home's foundation. And in his next home, he had them dig another hole, this one 20 feet deep. Once it was done, he'd just sit in the hole, and he set his house on fire at least three more times. As his children became teenagers, Joe's behavior grew darker. He tried to control them the way his parents had tried to control him.
8:50 Speaker 00 And when he was displeased, or when the voice commanded it, he abused his children like his parents had abused him. At one point, the kids reported it. Joe was arrested, even went to court, but he somehow convinced his children to recant. He was allowed to move back into the family home. In winter 1973, God told Joe that he had a supreme mission, a task only he was capable of, something so big it would change the course of human history. A figure appeared and revealed the mission. Slaughter every living person on earth with a butcher knife, then die by suicide.
9:29 Speaker 00 Once he completed his mission, Joe would ascend to heaven and become a god himself. Joe didn't start this mission immediately. He may have intended to work his way up to it, or perhaps he needed to test his partner in crime. Because Joe didn't plan to kill alone, he enlisted his 12-year-old son. A quick note: We'll be calling some children and victims in this story by pseudonyms. We'll call Joe's 12-year-old son, Mark. In the winter of 1973 and spring of 1974, the father and son regularly boarded buses headed to random towns in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. They never knew where they were going, but when they arrived, they'd break into a house and take whatever they could carry.
10:14 Speaker 00 Joe didn't tell Mark about the mission from God, so Mark's willingness to help indicates a troubling dynamic in their father-son relationship, especially when Joe decided to start killing children. This next event comes from Joe's confession to journalist Flora Reda Schreiber, which she included in her book The Shoemaker: The Anatomy of a Psychotic. Before his prison interviews, Joe kept this killing secret for years. On July 7, 1974, Joe and his 12-year-old son Mark headed out on foot to look for their first victim. Unlike the robberies, they decided to stay in Philadelphia. Homes and homes note that most visionary killers operate near where they live. They prefer to stay in their comfort zone. Around 6:30 that evening,
10:58 Speaker 00 Joe and Mark stopped in front of a recreation center and community pool. Even though it was getting dark, a lot of kids were still gathered around outside. That's when Mark spotted 10-year-old Jose standing apart from the crowd. The father and son approached Jose and told him they needed help moving some boxes, and said they'd be willing to pay. Jose agreed to come help, but told them his mother was expecting him home by 9. Joe and Mark took the boy to an abandoned rug factory just a few blocks away. When they walked inside, the building was pitch black. Jose must have suspected that something wasn't right, because he tried to back away, saying he had to go home. But Joe and Mark grabbed him by the arms and led him up a staircase.
11:43 Speaker 00 Jose tried to escape, but it was no use. When they got to the top of the stairs, Joe and Mark sexually assaulted and killed him. Then they grabbed his clothes, dumped them in a nearby scrapyard, and went home. The father and son had just committed their first murder, but they were far from completing Joe's mission from God, and Joe's visions would only grow more disturbing.
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13:08 Speaker 00 According to Joe Callenger, he was scared of what might happen after he and his 12-year-old son mutilated and killed a young boy together. He said his son, who we're calling Mark, always had an icy, unemotional demeanor. But when Joe said they'd kill again, he thought his son was excited at the thought. While their first victim was a random stranger, this next victim was someone they both knew very well. Homes and Homs note that most visionary killers don't pick their victims in advance or even have a consistent victim type. So in this case, Joe was an anomaly. Joe said this kill came to him in a vision. Apparently, he saw his 14-year-old son Joey being pushed off a mountain and falling to his death.
13:53 Speaker 00 Joe believed that the vision was an order from God to kill Joey. Even though they had a turbulent relationship, it was still his son, and Joe was distressed by the command. Still, he believed that he was on his way to becoming a god himself, and he was determined to prove his worthiness. With that in mind, Joe told Mark he wanted to kill Joey. Initially, he was nervous his son might refuse to help, or that he'd be repulsed or even terrified at the suggestion he'd help kill his brother. But according to Joe, the only reaction Mark had was excitement. Joe was surprised but relieved. Without Mark's help, he didn't think he could go through with it. He told them they'd strike in a few days. Then he got planning.
14:38 Speaker 00 Joe took out a $40,000 life insurance policy on Joey. Now, the pair had never had the greatest relationship. Joey was rebellious, always getting into trouble. And he was the son who'd reported Joe's abuse to the police, which led to Joe spending seven months in jail. It's possible Joe had multiple motives to kill his son. Whatever his true motive, Joe faltered in his plans more than once. Each time his resolve weakened at the last minute. But after two failed attempts to kill Joey, Joe said God reproached him for not following through on his mission, and reminded him of his purpose. On July 28th, Joe gathered Joey and Mark and took them out for a bite to eat.
15:21 Speaker 00 He told them they'd go to an area north of Market Street to take photos. There, dozens of buildings were partially or completely torn down, making it an interesting backdrop for a photo shoot, and the perfect place to dump a body.
15:36 Speaker 00 According to Joe, Joey loved modeling and was eager to enter the rundown area for a photo shoot. After walking through the neighborhood for a few minutes, Joe, Mark, and Joey found an old novelty shop that had been stripped bare. In the back of the shop was a door, slightly open. It was dark, so they pulled out their flashlights and shone them inside.
15:58 Speaker 00 They stood at the top of a spiral staircase, leading to a partially flooded basement. Oblivious, Joey led the way down the stairs. Eventually, the steps were completely submerged and they couldn't continue. Looking around, they spotted a ladder leaning against the wall. Joe and Mark had brought chains, allegedly to use in the photos. In the basement, Mark told his brother to stand with his back against the ladder so they could chain him to it for some photos. Mark fastened Joey's wrists and ankles to the steel. Together, Joe and Mark leaned the ladder forward, and dropped it into the water. They waited, as Joey drowned. After some time, Joe and Mark fished the ladder out of the water
16:42 Speaker 00 and unchanged Joey's body, laying it on the steps.
16:47 Speaker 00 Back home, Joe played the responsible parent, calling in a report that his son was missing. Later, he claimed his actions weren't a performance. He said he had no memory of killing his son, that he truly believed he was missing. Whether or not he was lying, we can't say. But author Flora Schreiber believed Joe blocked out the memory of the murder, or that his mental illness caused him to dissociate. Nevertheless, on August 9, demolition crews discovered Joey's body in the abandoned basement. In September, the police brought Joe in for questioning. To them, a father who severely abused his children, and then took out life insurance policies on them, was a suspect in his child's death. Unfortunately, they didn't have any evidence,
17:32 Speaker 00 and Joe insisted he was innocent, so they sent him back home to his kids again. And Joe continued on his mission. At some point, Joe realized it wasn't God talking to him, or rather, it wasn't only God. He later described visitations from a floating disembodied head named Charlie. Under Charlie's direction, Joe continued robbing people, in one crime, stealing an estimated $20,000 worth of jewelry. He also sexually assaulted women who were home when he broke in. He tried to kill at least one woman, but stopped at the last minute, running away while she was still alive. On January 8, 1975, Joe and Mark traveled to Leonia, New Jersey,
18:17 Speaker 00 a two-hour drive from Philadelphia. Posing as an insurance salesman, Joe walked around the neighborhood, picked a house, and approached the door, with Mark alongside. Inside was a 28-year-old woman, who we'll call Ellen, and her four-year-old son. It was her parents' house, but they were both out. She was caring for her grandmother, who was sick in bed upstairs. Ellen opened the door, perhaps to let the visitors know the owners weren't home to buy insurance right now. But in seconds, Joe forced his way inside. Mark followed. Ellen grabbed Joe's wrist, trying to keep him out of the house. They fought, until her son started screaming. Joe drew his gun and aimed it at the child.
18:59 Speaker 00 Fearing for her son's life, Ellen stopped fighting. Joe grabbed her by her hair and commanded her to close her eyes. He said they were going upstairs. Ellen said she'd comply if she could bring her son. Joe allowed her to pick him up, and marched the pair upstairs. He led them into a bedroom, blindfolded Ellen and gagged her. He undressed both of them, then he and Mark tied up Ellen and her son. In another bedroom, they found Ellen's sick grandmother and tied her up too. Around that time, the doorbell rang. For some reason, Joe rushed downstairs, leaving Mark to guard his hostages. He looked out the window and saw a young woman on the doorstep, Ellen's 21-year-old sister Julie.
19:41 Speaker 00 Joe opened the door and pulled Julie inside before she knew what was happening. He ordered her to be quiet and close her eyes, then pushed her up the stairs and treated her the same way he had the rest of the family. According to Julie, he started robbing them, taking her wedding ring and cash he found in the house. Joe later told author Flora Rata Schreiber that he fantasized about how he'd mutilate and kill his four victims, who he called creatures. But then the doorbell rang again. Joe claimed this excited him, because he'd be able to fulfill his mission faster by killing more people at once. Joe headed downstairs and answered the door. He found Ellen and Julie's mom Martha, their sister Andrea, and Andrea's boyfriend Fred.
20:25 Speaker 00 Joe rushed everyone into the house at gunpoint and forced them to the ground in the living room. He and Mark tied them up. Joe picked up his knife, planning to kill Fred first, until the doorbell rang again. Joe went to answer it and found Andrea and Julie's friend Maria Fasching. Joe opened the door and Maria smiled at him. He smiled back and invited her in. When she got inside, Joe pulled Maria's arms behind her and told her that if she did as she was told, he wouldn't hurt her. Maria saw the three people bound on the living room floor. She yelled at Joe and Mark to leave and let these people go. She told them about the sick grandmother upstairs and the family's father who was in the hospital.
21:09 Speaker 00 Joe told Flora Reda Schreiber this plea for sympathy had no impact on him because he didn't see his victims as people. All he cared about was his mission to kill everyone on the planet. Mark pointed his gun at Maria's head and told her to get down on the ground. Maria complied. Joe covered his victims' heads with their jackets. Then, as he recounted, Charlie appeared with a message. Joe understood the message and decided to enact it. He gagged Fred and took him downstairs to the basement's boiler room. Leaving the man's hands and feet bound, Joe pulled down Fred's pants, treating him like his childhood victims. Then, Joe had a sadistic idea.
21:53 Speaker 00 He didn't just want his victims to die. He wanted to kill them in a horrific, sexual way. So he ran back upstairs to the living room and grabbed Maria. He led her down the stairs and stood her in front of the room where Fred was waiting. With a knife in one hand, Joe held Maria by the shoulder and told her they were standing outside the boiler room. Fred was inside, he explained. Then he ordered her to go in and bite off his penis. Maria refused. Joe told her if she didn't do it, he'd kill her. According to Joe, Maria answered, "Kill me." Joe stabbed Maria to death. At that moment, Mark came down the stairs, yelling that someone had gotten loose and
22:38 Speaker 00 they had to go now. Upstairs, Martha had broken free of her ties and ran outside the house screaming for help. The father and son bolted outside. As they fled through the neighborhood, they dumped the jewelry they'd stuffed into their pockets. Then they dumped their gun and the knife Joe had used to kill Maria. The pair passed a park, and Joe stopped at a puddle to wash his face and blood-stained hands. He also took off his bloody shirt and threw it into some bushes. Eventually, they got to the Leonia bus station and left town. Joe didn't know he'd made the crucial mistake that would lead to his capture.
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24:15 Speaker 00 Acting under what he said was either the direction of God or a floating head named Charlie, Joe Kallinger had murdered three people. Worse, he'd recruited his tween son Mark to help. Joe seemed to believe that once he killed everyone on Earth, he'd become a god himself. But his plan hit a snag after his third victim. Before Joe Kallinger and his son Mark even left town, police had swarmed the scene of their crime. Sergeant Robert McDougall was one of the first cops at the house. Unsure who was still inside, he quietly looked around the home. When he went down to the basement, he found Maria's body. She was so bloody and disfigured, it was impossible to identify her. As the sergeant inspected the body,
25:00 Speaker 00 he heard Fred's muffled groans coming from another room and went to investigate. Once the sergeant cut him free, Fred identified the mangled body as Maria Fashing. The sergeant was shocked. Maria's father had been his partner on the Leonia Police Force for years. He'd known Maria from the day she was born.
25:21 Speaker 00 Word of the break-in and murder spread fast, just as fast tips and clues poured in. One woman reported she'd been walking in the park earlier that day when her dog ran into some bushes and came back dragging a blood-soaked shirt in his mouth. She wrestled the shirt away from the dog and threw it back into the bushes, thinking little of it, until she heard about the murder. Police quickly recovered the shirt and traced it back to Joe Kallinger. On January 17th, nine days after the attack, a group of police officers from Pennsylvania and New Jersey descended on the Kallinger home in Philadelphia. They arrested Joe and Mark. In Pennsylvania, Joe was charged for the string of robberies and kidnappings.
26:04 Speaker 00 In New Jersey, he faced a murder charge for Maria's death. His robbery and kidnapping trial in Pennsylvania lasted less than two weeks. Joe testified for himself, telling the jury about his mission from God and how he'd been ordered to commit the crimes. He also declared he was over 100 years old and claimed he had existed as a butterfly before inhabiting his current body. It's hard to know if Joe really believed what he was saying, or if this was a ploy to bolster his lawyer's insanity plea. Either way, the jury found that Joe was sane and culpable at the time of the murders. They found him guilty on all counts. He was taken to the State Correctional Institute in Huntington to await his murder trial in New Jersey.
26:49 Speaker 00 A year later, in September 1976, that trial began. Throughout the case, Joe acted erratically, often jerking his legs and arms around and gyrating his body. Sometimes he'd even chirp or burst out in random chance in court. Once again, experts were divided. Some said Joe was faking insanity, but the jury found Joe guilty of murdering Maria Fashing. Joe was sentenced to life in prison. Meanwhile, his son Mark was taken to a youth rehabilitation center in Pennsylvania shortly after his arrest. He was eventually released to live with foster parents and put on probation until he was 21 years old.
27:30 Speaker 00 Though Joe was found guilty of killing Maria, he was never charged for the deaths of his son Joey or 10-year-old Jose. He wouldn't admit to their murders for years, until an eventual interview with writer Flora Rata Shreiber. In 1978, Joe was transferred to a hospital for the criminally insane in Waymart, Pennsylvania. While there, he reported that he still saw visions of Charlie. Some doctors and experts who examined him at the facility agreed with his earlier diagnosis of schizophrenia. They believed a lot of his behavior could be attributed to his illness. Others said the hallucinations were caused by inhaling the fumes from shoe adhesives in his unventilated shop. But others still thought Joe was faking it. They believed that his actions were too calculated
28:15 Speaker 00 to be the product of a disturbed mind, like he and his lawyers claimed. That's the trouble with visionary killers. We're relying on the stories they tell. Are they mentally unwell? Or are they master manipulators who'll never reveal their true motivations? Or are they actually receiving messages from the forces of evil in our universe, as some people say? Whatever's causing these claims, it's common enough to present a pattern, though other visionary killers are equally perplexing. There's Herbert Mullin, sometimes nicknamed "The Earthquake Killer." He claimed he was told to kill people to save California from an earthquake that would destroy the state. Like with Kallinger, some experts believe his delusions
28:59 Speaker 00 were brought on by his diagnosis of schizophrenia. Then there's Richard Trenton Chase, sometimes called "The Vampire of Sacramento", who experienced the delusion that his body was running out of blood. He believed he needed to drink his victim's blood to survive. His psychosis may have been caused by schizophrenia or by recreational drugs. And perhaps the most infamous example: the son of Sam, David Berkowitz, claimed that a demon possessed his neighbor's dog and spoke through the dog to order him to kill. Psychologists also disagreed about Berkowitz's diagnosis. And at one point, the killer himself claimed to have made it all up. But it doesn't matter whether we believe these killers or not.
29:42 Speaker 00 What matters is that they tell an unbelievable story to justify their crimes. Perhaps to authorities, or maybe to themselves. If they're making it up, they're recasting themselves as a victim, trying to skirt the blame for their crimes. But if they truly believe these visions and experience a break with reality, then they can be rehabilitated. Or even prevented from ever killing. A 2003 study followed a patient experiencing both delusions and homicidal urges. With psychiatric treatment, both went away before the man could kill anyone. Given continuing advances in psychiatric care, it's possible Joe Kallinger is among a shrinking group of this particular type of serial killers.
30:32 Speaker 00 Thank you for listening to Serial Killers. We're here with a new episode every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at SerialKillersPodcast. And if you're listening on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts. For more information on Joseph Kallinger, amongst the many sources we used, we found The Shoemaker: The Anatomy of a Psychotic by Flora Reda Schreiber and Serial Murder by Ronald M. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes, extremely helpful to our research. Stay safe out there. This episode was written by Sarah Hussain, edited by Maggie Admire and Joel Callan, fact-checked by Cara McEllean and Lori Siegel, researched by Brian Petrus and Chelsea Wood, and sound designed by Kelly Gary. I'm your host, Janice Morgan.
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