Joy 101: Jason Ritter

“He had so much energy and constantly wanted to make us laugh, and it was like he had a gravitational pull. And then when he passed, it was like, wait, how does the world keep spinning without this person?” -Jason Ritter on the passing of his father, actor John Ritter Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is Presented by CVS. Shop your local CVS, right around the corner. Experience the full conversation on the "Joy 101 podcast with Hoda Kotb" wherever you listen to podcasts. For more information please visit us at www.joy101.com/podcast https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joy101.com%2Fpodcast&data=05%7C02%7CBrianBurton%40iheartmedia.com%7C5717ce7843144f7452a208defa440cce%7C122a527e5b714eba878d9810b495b9e3%7C0%7C0%7C639223367326929656%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=OkmdJvVqTL0Os0VutJZ%2BqL4l9M2BZrgVHC5m%2BXmdPmU%3D&reserved=0 See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:10Hoda Kotb?

  Hey guys, it's Hoda. Welcome to the Joy 101 Podcast. So I had such an interesting conversation a few days ago with someone who asked me this question. She said, what turns you on? Like, what is the thing that lights you up? You know, and I was like, well, um, sunrises turn me on. They make me feel good. I said, being at a concert like makes me feel amazing. Like I'm at a concert and everyone's vibing together. That's great. And I said, jumping on the trampoline with my kids makes me feel amazing. And then she said, what turns you off? What depletes you? What makes you feel kind of meh? And I thought, well, okay, when I'm overextended and I'm on fumes, like that always makes me feel meh, like I feel

• 0:54Hoda Kotb?

  down and depressed. When someone's rude randomly, like that just depletes me. And so she said, okay, well, why don't you just go ahead and fix that? And I was like, oh, yeah, how do you do that? She goes, well, you know what turns you on? Go get it. Wake up early and watch that sunrise. And what you like about the sunrise is there's peace and solitude. And it's the beginning of something. What you liked about jumping on the trampoline with your kids is you aren't telling them what to do. You are participating with them. Do more of that. When there's music, maybe you can't get to a concert, but you can certainly crank the music up in your house and feel the vibes. Like, there are accessible ways to find that stuff. The stuff that you think, well, I have to wait for a trip and I can't

• 1:38Hoda Kotb?

  do it yet. And we have to go to the beach to see a sunrise. No, we don't. Like, it's all right there. And she talked about the things that deplete you. She said, take note. Like, if you feel empty when you are spread thin, you know that now. So you're going to take some of your time back, little by little, piece by piece. So her point was, like, the road to joy is in baby steps. It's not like I gotta go to Tahiti and be on some great vacation and then I'll have it. It comes in like the day to day stuff. Okay, so speaking of joy, I think you're gonna love my next guest. His name is Jason Ritter. Jason happens to be the son of the late John Ritter. You probably know John Ritter

• 2:19Hoda Kotb?

  from Three's Company. Jason Ritter built a career from the ground up. He is a joyful, exciting, sensitive, vulnerable human being who feels all the feels, the highest of the highs, the lowest of the lows, and he goes back up again. So this is such an insightful and beautiful conversation with a young man who is finding his way to joy. I hope you enjoy it on Joy 101.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 2:54Hoda Kotb?

  Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS. I've realized that joy doesn't always come from those big moments. Sometimes you find it on the most ordinary day. I'll pop into a CVS for toothpaste or paper towels, and it never seems to be just a quick errand. Maybe I'll grab a delicious Well Market Trail Mix or wander over to the Joy Word Collection. That's part of the fun. So the next time you're checking something off your to do list, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You might go in for one thing and leave with a little more joy. Visit your local CVS pharmacy, sponsored by CVS. Every purchase is a financial decision. So it's worth asking, what am I getting out

• 3:35Hoda Kotb?

  of this? If you're using the Chase Freedom Flex Card, you can maximize your cash back on things you need. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. Sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex Card. Learn more at chase.com/getflex. This is a paid collaboration with Chase Freedom Flex. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Your business operates under pressure and you need control over your data. But IBM research shows only 9% of companies have real oversight of their technology. IBM's open hybrid cloud approach is designed to give you visibility with built in governance tools, data sovereignty, and compliance reporting. It's another way IBM helps you stay in control of your data. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  What if one bottle could replace the benefits of eight steps in your skincare routine? Get glass-like skin and your time back with the resurfacing compound by You Beauty. This transformative serum works to visibly brighten, smooth, and even your skin while helping minimize the look of pores, dark spots, and fine lines, all in one multitasking formula. It's breakthrough science and streamlined simplicity in a single step. For science proven results without the clutter or confusion, shop the resurfacing compound by You Beauty

• 5:07Speaker 03

  now at youbeauty.com. That's the letter U, B E A U T Y dot com. Try You Beauty today.

• 5:17Hoda Kotb?

  So first of all, Jason, I know that like joy must be your middle name. And I'll tell you how I know that. I went on TikTok and I saw some crazy stuff on your site. Wait, wait. It filled me with joy to watch you dancing, being insane. Like, describe what's happening when you are setting it free like that.

• 5:44Speaker 04

  I, I think I am just putting aside all thoughts in my brain, all self censorship, and just moving my body in a way that is pleasing to me.

• 6:00Hoda Kotb?

  By the way, I gotta tell you, when I watched it, I could picture you as a kid. It was crystal clear to me. I'm like, I see Jason at five, I see him at six. It's, so describe yourself as a kid. Like, what were you like?

• 6:13Speaker 04

  I mean, I was, I was a bit of a wild kid and I definitely had that, you know, are you watching? Mom, mom, are you watching? Hey, watch me. I'm gonna do a dive. Watch, watch. You didn't watch. Oh, you did? Okay. What would you think? I'm gonna do it again. You know, just like this weird desire to like show things and just sort of try to tell people, I'm here, I'm alive, I'm here, I can do things, I'm learning things all the time. So, and then as I grew up and started to, you know, you become a teenager, you get, or I got really shy and sort of self censoring. And I would see kids, especially dancing. You see like a five or six year old, you put on music and they're just dancing.

• 6:57Hoda Kotb?

  Yes, they don't care.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  Trained and they don't care. They're just feeling the music. And I, there was a period of time where I was very jealous of that. And then at a certain point in high school, I went, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that too.

• 7:09Hoda Kotb?

  I'm just gonna go back to me. By the way, it's so interesting what you said, because there is a point for every kid, and I don't know what grade it hits, but you're totally free as the birds. If someone tells you to blow around like a tree, you blow around like a tree. And then there comes a point where they tell you to do that and you go, that's stupid, or that's whatever. And then you talked about feeling shy. So how did you go from the kid who was kind of wacky to the kid who was a little withdrawn? How did that happen, do you think?

• 7:36Speaker 04

  I think it's, it's a combination of, you know, socially, people grow up and they, you know, everybody at a certain age, around 10, 11, 12, 13, you become so aware of your, yourself, and you also sort of become aware that you can be kicked out of the group at any time, if you're not cool or something like that. So you try, you all of a sudden, it becomes less about being yourself and more about fitting in with the group so that you don't get ostracized, like that one kid that you saw get ostracized, who was a bit weird or a bit, you know, something like that. And so, you know, the first time you

• 8:17Speaker 04

  see someone kicked out of the group, it makes you do something psychologically where you go, that's not gonna be me. You know, I gotta, I gotta be like you.

• 8:26Hoda Kotb?

  I got it. Right. I'll fit in. So I want to get more into that. But I want to hear, because everyone's got a different kind of definition of what joy is. What is that feeling? And I don't know what it is. Maybe you're at the concert and you're like, blah, or I don't know what it is. But for you, how would you define, like, when you have that feeling of like sheer and utter joy?

• 8:48Speaker 04

  I think it's, I think the feeling that I get, or the closest way I would describe it, is just a sort of momentary freedom from the anxieties or the hardships or the pains or whatever else is going on. This sort of, this, this celebration that we are alive at the very least in this moment. And, and, and as long as we are alive, there, there is the possibility for joy. And, you know, there, there, pain is unavoidable and, and

• 9:30Speaker 04

  grief is unavoidable. Joy is avoidable. People, some people spend quite a lot of time just not looking for it or seeking it out. And I, I think it's a sort of a survival technique for me a little bit, is just to try to let everything go. And, and I think also, I just appreciate, appreciate the, the people around me and the things around me and music and storytelling and things like that.

• 10:02Hoda Kotb?

  All the bits and pieces. Because some of it, yeah, you're right. I feel like sometimes it's all right around. And I feel like for me too, like, I get excited when I'm at a concert, or I get excited when I'm wherever. But that's like, that's kind of like a circumstantial thing. You're like, I'm happy if I'm at the birthday party, or if I graduate, or whatever. But the joy piece of it is so cool, because there are times, at least for me, every now and then, where I'll just wake up and I'll look around and I'll go, oh, okay. Like, this is, this is kind, nothing happened. It's just kind of cool that this is where I am.

• 10:40Speaker 04

  Well, and I think it's, that's such a beautiful thing. I think, you know, a lot of people, the first thing they see is the, what they don't have and, and, and what they're missing. And, and to take stock of the blessings, you know, in your life, even at times where it feels like there's nothing, you know, still the ability to find little things here and there that you can be grateful for in the moment.

• 11:13Hoda Kotb?

  I think that's so cool. All right. Describe your childhood in a single word, if you can.

• 11:20Speaker 04

  My childhood was...

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Oh, boy, and a single word.

• 11:30Speaker 04

  Fun.

• 11:31Hoda Kotb?

  Oh.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  I guess I would say there was a lot of laughter. There was a lot of freedom. There was a lot of wildness. I feel like, you know, the first part of my life was in this lovely little bubble. And it's one of the things that I love so much, seeing my daughter laugh so hard at certain things, especially when she can laugh at herself if she does something that's a little silly and I point it out and she laughs so hard.

• 12:02Hoda Kotb?

  The best.

• 12:03Speaker 04

  She loves being delirious. Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 04

  I think, you know, I hope that's one thing that I felt like my parents gave to me as well is the ability to laugh at yourself, which is such an important tool to have in your tool belt, because otherwise you can take yourself so seriously. And if somebody laughs at you, it can really wound you if you're not ability to, if you don't have the ability to laugh at yourself. Whereas if you can, it's sort of like, it's a wonderful balm against that kind of embarrassment where you just go, yeah, we're all messing up. We're all, nobody's perfect.

• 12:38Hoda Kotb?

  Exactly. I think we spend so much of our lives waiting for the big moments, the birthdays, the vacations, the milestones. But the truth is, some of the happiest moments show up on the most ordinary days. So like this, I'll stop into a CVS because I need one thing. Somehow, the best part of the trip is never the thing I came for. So maybe I'll grab a delicious well market snack, or maybe I'll wander over to the Joyward Collection. It's really full of fun, cool, seasonal decor, thoughtful little gifts, and those little discoveries that make you so glad you stopped in. I have to tell you, if you're an Extra Care member, you're going to save on things you're already buying, and those extra bucks really do add up.

• 13:23Hoda Kotb?

  Just watching that total go down at the checkout never, ever gets old. I know life's busy. We're all juggling a lot. And that's why I think those little unexpected moments of joy matter so much. So the next time you're running errands, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You may go in for something you need, but don't be surprised if you leave with something that simply makes your day a little brighter. Visit your local CVS pharmacy, sponsored by CVS. Halloween has a funny way of making you buy things you'd never normally buy. A 10-foot skeleton? Sure. A full-size fog machine? Why not? Three bags of candy that somehow become six bags of candy? It happens.

• 14:05Hoda Kotb?

  Which brings me to the Chase Freedom Flex Card, the savvy decision that will earn you more cash back on the everyday purchases, plus the extraordinary Halloween tricks and treats. With Freedom Flex, you earn even more treats on your Halloween and everyday needs. You get 5% cash back on popular rotating quarterly categories, 3% on dining and drugstores, and 1% on all other purchases. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. That's no tricks, all treats. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. So sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex Card. Learn more at chase.com/getflex. This is a paid collaboration with Chase Freedom Flex. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N.A.

• 14:49Hoda Kotb?

  Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 14:55Speaker 05

  I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with Dr. Laura Jayhai of Cleveland Clinic about how advanced computing is helping shorten the path from medical discovery to treatment.

• 15:08Speaker 06

  The moment that there is a compound that someone in a lab thinks it would be effective to treat a certain disease, it takes about 10 to 13 years from that moment to when that drug is on a shelf for a patient. A big part of that gap could be computationally solved. Better simulation of compounds, designing drug trials that are more efficient, that would finish faster. That was the motivation to bring computational tools and technology closer to biomedical researchers.

• 15:42Speaker 05

  Learn more about how Cleveland Clinic and IBM are using AI and quantum computing to revolutionize biomedical research at ibm.com/smarttalks.

• 15:55Hoda Kotb?

  I mean, I'm looking at you, and I'm sure this happens to you probably multiple times a day, where everyone looks in your eyes and sees your dad. I mean, you know, it's like, I'm like blinking, looking at you, and I'm sure that's what it is. I mean, John Ritter, your father who passed away, he was 54, is that right?

• 16:11Speaker 04

  54.

• 16:12Hoda Kotb?

  54. And you were just a kid. You were 23, right?

• 16:14Speaker 04

  Yes, yeah.

• 16:16Hoda Kotb?

  How, and my dad also passed. He was actually 53. I was in college. I was like a junior in college when he died. But that sudden feeling of someone's here and someone's not, how did you cope? And how did you sort of pull yourself along during that period?

• 16:40Speaker 04

  Oh, boy. I mean, yeah, the grief journey is a wild one. And especially, he was such a source of joy. And even in difficult periods of our relationship, he had so much energy and constantly wanted to make us laugh. And it was like he had a gravitational pull. And then when it was, when he passed, it was like, wait, how does the world keep spinning without this person?

• 17:17Speaker 04

  And it was, it was an incredibly shocking and painful period of time. And I, you know, it felt like the world was upside down. I started to, the first thing that I remember is, the first beautiful thing that I remember is that around that period of time, I have never seen more beautiful sunsets in my life. It was, it was just this strange thing where maybe I wasn't looking for them, whatever it was. The sunsets were so beautiful that it made me immediately just believe with no proof.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  And it doesn't actually make sense if you like try to logically, I think the timing of it works, but in reality, but it felt like when someone passes, they get to have a paintbrush for like a couple of months and paint a couple of sunsets or something like that. They felt so personal. And I know that everybody could see these sunsets, and I know that people pass away all the time. But I think it was, it was like one of the first things where I felt like when you are carved out in that way, when, when something happens, it's so painful that the well of your understanding of life is, you know, kind of first to go deeper like that.

• 18:47Speaker 04

  Your capacity for all emotions grows as well. And so you can experience joy. I mean, some of the hardest times I've laughed in my life are times in my life after somebody has passed and everyone is devastated and someone says something and there's just this release where you're, you know, tears are coming out of your eyes, but your stomach is hurting. One of my favorite feelings in the world is, you know, that uncontrollable belly laughter. And, and so, you know, I think that was one of the things about it is I felt like I moved more by movies and television shows.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  You know, there are things that I remember seeing as a kid. Something happens in a show, my mom is moved and tears are in her eyes. And I'm going, I mean, it's just actors or something like that. The longer you live and the more experiences you, you gain, you, your, your understanding of, and your, I guess your appreciation of life sort of deepens. And I think, once you're faced with how fragile life is and that literally someone can be here one day and not the next, it sort of makes you take stock in a different way of going, this could be my last day or my last.

• 20:13Hoda Kotb?

  That's true. By the way, that sunset that you described and the paintbrush makes me just, I feel all the feels because it's like there's one moment, and maybe this was special and maybe it was different, and maybe he did have a hand in it, and maybe something did change. And the idea that through that, I mean, that grief comes this remarkable, sparkly, insane, beautiful moment to me is like so moving. And I feel that too. It's like the depth of your despair. If you look at it conversely, it's like, I didn't know I could feel this great, you know, on the other side of that. So I think that's so profound and beautiful. Does he still come to you? Does he, do you still feel his presence every now and then?

• 21:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I do. I, you know, sometimes I kind of, it's sort of.

• 21:06Speaker 04

  Force it.

• 21:07Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 21:08Speaker 04

  Just be some times where I go, I, I need you in this corner right here, Dad. And I just sort of sit him down.

• 21:18Hoda Kotb?

  Talk to him.

• 21:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, I need you. I need you now. There's so much about this world that's such a mystery and whether he's out there somewhere or I know him so well that he's within me somewhere. It doesn't, it doesn't matter. I can, I, I know him. There are times where I can ask him a question that I don't necessarily know the answer to, and I filter it through what I knew about him as a father and as a person. And I can kind of guess what he would say. And so I, you know, I, I do, I, I definitely will kind of do that.

• 22:02Speaker 04

  And then there are some times where, you know, there was a day, a couple of years ago, I think it was in maybe 2021 or something. On the anniversary of his passing, for some reason, the whole sky was purple. And it was like, that was one of his favorite colors. He even painted his car this purple at a very embarrassing point for me. And my, like before I had gotten over my embarrassment as a teenager, I was like, why does my dad have a purple car? Are you the Joker?

• 22:40Speaker 04

  But he loved purple and the whole sky was purple on that day. And there are just, there are things like that where I absolutely understand that I have the choice to go, that's just a coincidence. The world is random and it's all chaos. And then I just, it just gives me more joy and more happiness to choose the other option, which is that there are things at work that I don't understand.

• 23:06Hoda Kotb?

  By the way, 100. That's 100. And I think, look, I feel like we're all like, we want some kind of inspiration, man. It's like in this world, you're like, please show me something that is beyond what we can see and feel and touch. And I also think, once you see it, like you describing it was reminding me of things that, you know, I would smell certain things when, you know, after my dad passed, I was like, oh my God, that's his, that's what he used to wear. That's, that's him. That's it. But I do think we're all like seeking, seeking, seeking something. You chose as your career, acting. Was that because, you know, everyone does what their dad did? I mean, my brother's an engineer because my dad was, I'm sure.

• 23:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:48Hoda Kotb?

  So did you choose it just because? Or was there like a calling, a passion for you at that point?

• 23:53Speaker 04

  I think I realized that there is a passion for it at a certain point.

• 23:59Speaker 04

  Initially, I, it looked fun. I, I liked the idea of it. And when I got shy, I looked back at my childhood self and was very suspicious of, of him. And I was like, you just wanted attention. You just wanted everyone to look at you. Look at you. You're so self-absorbed.

• 24:18Speaker 04

  And then towards the end of high school, I did a fundraiser at, at the school and I had so much fun rehearsing and, you know, memorizing my lines and coming up with funny ideas with other people in the scene. And I just was like, oh, I actually, I really do like this. And I like it so much that I would like to do this in any capacity, regardless of, of what the outcome is, or if, you know, I'm able to make a career out of it, or if I'm, if I'm doing it on the side. I love this. And so, yeah, that was what, that was what made me want to do it, is just realizing

• 25:01Speaker 04

  how fun it was and how, and I felt like I was more useful. I was like, oh, all of the weird studying of people that I've done my entire life in order to just figure out how to fit in or how to not be excommunicated from the group. This is all useful material for this. I can use all my, my human studies for good.

• 25:26Hoda Kotb?

  You're a student, right, of people? That's so interesting.

• 25:28Speaker 04

  Sometimes I just felt like a little alien or something who had been placed on earth. And I was like, so how do people, this person seems very happy and very confident. Why?

• 25:40Hoda Kotb?

  How do I get to be like that?

• 25:44Hoda Kotb?

  How did you know you were talented?

• 25:45Speaker 04

  That is, I, I don't know. I still don't. I mean, I am, I, I think one thing that I am continuously working on is self-esteem issues. I have, I still recognize about myself that the way I feel about myself in that regard is completely up to other people. And so I will read something that someone nice says about me and I'll go, oh yeah, maybe I do know what I'm doing. And then I read something else from somebody, you know, on a message board and I go, they're right. I'm, I'm just, you know, I'm somehow getting parts and I, you know, I, I, I can

• 26:28Speaker 04

  be lifted up and taken down by someone else's opinion still, which I'm working on getting more of a sense of myself and not being, not depending upon the kindness of strangers.

• 26:40Hoda Kotb?

  It's hard. Yeah. It's got, it's kind of difficult though, because it is true. You're a, you, one thing that is apparent in all your acting is you are, there's a very tender-heartedness about you and, which is what's so appealing, which makes, which is what makes people lean in and say, wow, I like that. You, there's a vulnerability that's cool. And that is the other thing, which is if, you know, the, the fact that you said, I don't know that I'm talented. I mean, you already have a body of work that says you are, whether you believe it or not, but it is one of those things that it's tough to say to yourself, I got this. I know this, you know, I'm good at this.

• 27:22Speaker 04

  Absolutely. I think also, you know, I, I grew up and, and still I, I hear all of the time, you know, and I love it. I love collecting stories about my dad, but I, you know, the way that people talk about him with so much reverence and, and like, and his place in the, in the comedy world and the physical comedy world and things like that. There's always, I think there's always a, a, a little bit of a comparison that I can't help but, but make. And, and, and so, yeah, I, I, you know, I, I can, there are times where I can look at the fact that I've been able to make a living doing this job for

• 28:07Speaker 04

  this many years where I go, I, I'm able to convince myself for a moment that I at least somewhat know what I'm doing. But, but I think one of the other things that I really love is, is that sort of not knowing and not feeling 100% confident and going into a scene and looking at my scene partner and going, help me, I, let's find this together. I, I didn't, I couldn't figure it out by myself because it's not a scene that's just with one person. So how can we kind of collaborate? And it's one of the things that I love so much about the whole world of movies and

• 28:48Speaker 04

  television and is, is the collaboration aspect, that we're all making it together. We need each other.

• 28:56Hoda Kotb?

  How do you find joy on really crummy days? Like you wake up, you're in a funk, you don't know why. You gotta find it. Like, how do you, how do you grab it?

• 29:04Speaker 04

  That's a great question. I have a couple techniques.

• 29:10Hoda Kotb?

  I want to hear. I want to hear.

• 29:12Speaker 04

  One of our cats will, if you're lying down somewhere, will jump on my chest and just kind of purr and lay there. And so sometimes if it's, if I can't motivate myself to sort of move, I try to call him over and, and just to sit there and pet and focus on, on his joy for a minute and realize that I am at least feeling useful to my cat in this moment. And I, I am giving him joy, even though I cannot maybe in this moment give myself joy. I, my, my wife and my daughter, I, I look to.

• 29:53Speaker 04

  And if I am really just by myself, if I'm away, definitely distractions work. I love doing an escape room or an escape, there are some of these like little escape room box sets that you can just do by yourself in, in your room somewhere. And there's something about an escape room where every clue, everything you find is a piece of the puzzle. And there's something so satisfying about actually, you know, things matching up and having an answer and slowly figuring it out. I feel like that's how I've always looked at life. But, you know, the world is chaotic. But I, like we were said before, with the sunsets and everything, my whole life, I've seen, you know, I've seen

• 30:35Speaker 04

  a snail on the ground and I've said, if that snail can make it to that line in 30 seconds, then that means I should do this. You know, just looking for signs and clues everywhere.

• 30:47Hoda Kotb?

  You're so, your motivation techniques are awesome, by the way. You're timing snails.

• 30:52Speaker 04

  And.

• 30:55Hoda Kotb?

  How do you get motivated on a? Day that you're not like you don't wanna you don't wanna work out. You don't wanna go to you don't wanna do anything. So what do you do?

• 31:03Speaker 04

  I try to make myself useful in some way. That that's always been the thing that that helps is if I can't do something for myself, then I can throw on a load of laundry and I can fold it and or you know, things like that, or I can go for a little walk in my neighborhood. You know, one of the things my daughter and I like to do is we'll go for a walk. We it's called a beauty walk. We call it and we go around and she can't pick flowers off of people's you know, houses or anything like that, but anything we find on the ground, a little leaf or something like that, that we find beautiful for one way or another.

• 31:43Speaker 04

  We pick it up and we we put it in a little bag and we we take it home and we look at them all and and so it's it's that's sort of a microcosm of of what I try to do is look for these little moments of beauty and you can find it in a book or a show or outside. Sometimes I just go outside and I listen and I hear if there's a bird or or an argument. Those are always really fun. If you hear some drama outside.

• 32:15Hoda Kotb?

  Exactly, exactly. I love that. I think we spend so much of our lives waiting for the big moments, the birthdays, the vacations, the milestones. But the truth is some of the happiest moments show up on the most ordinary days. So like this, I'll stop into a CVS because I need one thing. Somehow the best part of the trip is never the thing I came for. So maybe I'll grab a delicious well market snack. Or maybe I'll wander over to the Joyward Collection. It's really full of fun, cool seasonal decor, thoughtful little gifts. And those little discoveries that make you so glad you stopped in. I have to tell you, if you're an extra care member,

• 32:56Hoda Kotb?

  you're gonna save on things you're already buying and those extra bucks really do add up. Just watching that total go down at the checkout never ever gets old. I know life's busy. We're all juggling a lot. And that's why I think those little unexpected moments of joy matter so much. So the next time you're running errands, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You may go in for something you need, but don't be surprised if you leave with something that simply makes your day a little brighter. Visit your local CVS pharmacy sponsored by CVS. Halloween has a funny way of making you buy things you'd never normally buy. A 10 foot skeleton? Sure.

• 33:37Hoda Kotb?

  A full size fog machine? Why not? Three bags of candy that somehow become six bags of candy? It happens, which brings me to the Chase Freedom Flex Card, the savvy decision that will earn you more cash back on the everyday purchases, plus the extraordinary Halloween tricks and treats. With Freedom Flex, you earn even more treats on your Halloween and everyday needs. You get 5% cash back on popular rotating quarterly categories, 3% on dining and drugstores, and 1% on all other purchases. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. That's no tricks, all treats. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. So sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex Card.

• 34:19Hoda Kotb?

  Learn more at chase.com/getflex. This is a paid collaboration with Chase Freedom Flex. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A. Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Your team is on a deadline, but moving all your enterprise data will take time your business simply doesn't have. IBM Technology lets AI work with your data where it already lives. With an open hybrid cloud approach designed to build on your existing investments. It's another way IBM helps you put your data to work. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.

• 35:04Hoda Kotb?

  Speaking of your daughter and parenthood, like when do you have the most like fun with your daughter? What are you doing that makes you go, God, that was the absolute best?

• 35:18Speaker 04

  One of my favorite things that she does is she will fold a bunch of papers together and then staple them and then spend all this time writing a book. And then she'll come up to me and she'll we'll read the story together. And something about ideas coming out of her brain on paper is so beautiful and satisfying to me. And there's a weird thing where like I feel like I just get stunned once again by the fact that

• 35:52Speaker 04

  she exists and that my wife and I've if we hadn't met, she wouldn't be here and you know, all of these these things. But I think it's it's reading her little creations, not to minimize them, her creations. They're just little books. And and our dance parties, we do some some funny fun dance parties.

• 36:14Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, God, I can picture it already. I've already seen your dance. Okay. Who leads the dances, you or her?

• 36:19Speaker 04

  We both do. We both and we kind of take turns. We're like, you go. And then there's lots of like lifting her up, you know, at certain satisfying moments in the song.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  But we haven't had a dance party in a while. That was like.

• 36:34Hoda Kotb?

  Okay, that's time. You have to sell tonight. Tonight's our night.

• 36:39Hoda Kotb?

  You like lots of people.

• 36:42Hoda Kotb?

  Jason have gone have been on highs and lows and you you ride them out and here you are. You spoke really openly about sobriety, alcoholism and sobriety. Will you describe what was kind of the moment, or maybe there was a low moment where you said, that's it, that's enough? And what that felt like to kind of climb your way out of that where you are now?

• 37:08Speaker 04

  You know, that that element of of my searching for

• 37:15Speaker 04

  joy or just a momentary escape from anxiety or hardships, I think, are are part of the things that led me to drinking in the first place, you know, as a teenager. And

• 37:30Speaker 04

  there there were moments where I thought, oh, this is not going well. I'm feeling bad about myself. I'm I'm having to call my friends the next day and say, I'm sorry, I broke that thing. Or was I like so loud last night or you know, all these, all these things. But the final decision wasn't actually mine. I think, to be honest, at that point in my life, the alcohol and my behavior with the alcohol had made me feel so down on myself that I just was kind of like, well, we'll just see what happens. I wasn't enjoying or appreciating my life as much as I should have been. I I was

• 38:15Speaker 04

  in a pretty bad place. And it was it was Melanie who basically said,

• 38:23Speaker 04

  I'm not telling you to stop. You can you can continue to drink, but I can't be around it anymore. Just it was just a boundary for her. It was too triggering for her and painful and confusing and scary and all of that stuff. And so

• 38:38Speaker 04

  the interesting thing about it for me was that I I don't think I felt worth enough on my on my own to fight for myself in any kind of way, but I knew that she deserved better than than who I was. And so I thought I'll I'll try this for her and I'll do this for her. And only later, once I started to have some years under my belt and start to feel a little bit better about myself and that maybe some of these things that I believed about myself were not as huge and you know, immutable facts as I and character flaws that I thought, but more things that I could work on and deal with and look into. Was able to sort of switch it for myself and and

• 39:24Speaker 04

  I think it's been it's been important for me to feel like I'm

• 39:33Speaker 04

  helping people or something or or adding to the world. And you know, even as a child, there would be these moments where I would feel very disconnected and feel like I'm just breathing other people's air and why am I wasting this food nourishing my body when you know, it's just like these weird moments where I felt very unworthy of the gifts of life for some reason. And in in being a better partner and husband and father and things like that, I've been able to sort of fill myself up a little bit more with my self-worth and the sobriety has helped so much in that. And it's allowed me to

• 40:16Speaker 04

  express my I don't think I could have done like some of these dances and some I don't think I would have felt this free if I had been bogged down by my shame or my, you know, things like that, things that I wasn't looking at at that time.

• 40:31Hoda Kotb?

  I think you're so interesting because on one hand, you talk about all of your insecurities. You're like all of us, really, all your insecurities and what about what you're worried about. And then when you free dance, it's like, I like both guys, like, I think it's cool. And there's the one tip dog. Sorry, I didn't want to bring this up, but when you were punching those those balloons. No, I'm sorry. I mean, I can judge them all, but the punching of the balloons. Please look it up. What was, I mean, the whole, everything about that was ridiculously funny. And you just kept going and it just

• 41:12Hoda Kotb?

  I love when you like. Dive bombed on top of it. What was that?

• 41:16Speaker 04

  There have been so many, there have been a couple of times where I have been trying to do something, whether it's like carrying too much laundry at one time or too many groceries because I refuse to make two trips and it's just falling and it's really, and I just go, this is, I'm being ridiculous. And there's, and on that day, it was the final day of, of shooting Matlock and I had, had these balloons in my trailer for that long and I wanted to pop them and I gave a couple punches and I was like, this is really hard. And it's also, I looked back at myself and I went, why am I trying to, but this is so silly. And so I just decided for some reason, and then it was even harder than I could have ever imagined.

• 41:59Speaker 04

  But I also always think it's so funny, uh, you know, falling short of your own expectations. And I really was trying to hit those balloons and pop them. I was not trying.

• 42:11Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, by the way, to me, I was watching, I was like, joy's like so tiny. Joy isn't like the details. Joy isn't like that. The fact that you did that, I don't know how many views it got, but I'm sure a kazillion. Who even knows? But with that one action, number one, it just probably, like, there are other people like me who just will silently giggle about it like later on today. Like, what the hell was he doing? It's so good. It's so good. I like, I like that part too of you, that interesting part that doesn't care and will try anything. And I think that that's like the magic there.

• 42:46Speaker 04

  That was, that was a, a real sort of moment for me when I realized that I didn't have to be so petrified of failure. That failure is universal and it's kind of funny and everybody has it. And so to let go of a, a part of me that wanted to be the toughest, I mean, I had to let go of that pretty, pretty quickly. Pretty, pretty soon realized I wasn't going to be the toughest guy on the, on the block. But, um, but you know, that, that I could be myself and, and not be good at things and that there's something that, you know, there are more people who are not good at things

• 43:28Speaker 04

  in the world. And, uh, and I also challenge everyone out there to try to punch a Mylar balloon. They're very tough.

• 43:36Hoda Kotb?

  It's almost impossible. Oh yeah. That's crazy. Um, when you're parenting, you and your wife are parenting your daughter, cause I actually have a seven year old too. And I have a seven and a nine. And it's such a, I mean, it's all fun. What are you gonna do? Like watching them do everything is like a marvel. I was on the trampoline with my kids and I was so, I don't know, I was so happy and I was, I felt so free and I was with them and we were dying laughing. And I realized it was like one of the times in my life where I'm not telling them to do something. I wasn't saying, get on your shoes. Where, come on, uh, that's too this, it's too hot, blah, blah, blah. I realized that when I'm not in charge, life is so fun. So.

• 44:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, I think that's exactly it. It's that surrender. And also I think kids are such a wonderful reminder of, you know, I mean, obviously they are not worried about, um, the things that we adults are worried about, but, but you can still access some of that freedom if you give yourself the permission to get on a trampoline, for instance. I love a good trampoline.

• 44:46Hoda Kotb?

  What are you, um, what are you trying to teach your daughter? Like what, what are, what are the things you're trying to put in?

• 44:53Speaker 04

  I think the main thing that I, I always, we talk a lot about, although she is way beyond me, um, is, is just general empathy. I think, you know, that was always very helpful for me growing up is, is putting myself in someone else's shoes and thinking about how it would, you know, I think I maybe went too far in that, uh, department and got into sort of codependent areas at times. But I think it's really helpful to, to, and I think it's important to not just be the center of the universe and to realize

• 45:35Speaker 04

  that everybody is, um, a, a thinking and feeling person. And, um, so I think the main thing is that she knows that there is nothing she could do or be that, uh, would make us not love her, you know, that she understands that we have complete unconditional love for her. And, um, and then the other thing is, uh, yeah, just allowing her to sort of preparing the soil, so to speak, so that she can bloom into whatever flower she is and, and just be there to water her and provide her sunlight and, and not try to shape her.

• 46:20Speaker 04

  Unless, you know, you maybe put a stick in if it's starting to wilt or, you know, those kinds of.

• 46:25Hoda Kotb?

  Exactly. Yeah. Sometimes you gotta do that. Okay. You got Matlock on your plate. You got the lantern on your plate. What? Yeah. Tell me about what you got cooking.

• 46:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's been an exciting period of time. Uh, I'm so excited for Matlock season three to start shooting and then come out. We completed this huge storyline in season two, and now everything is going to be different. So I'm so excited to find out what the author, what the writers have in store for us. Jenny Snyder-Ehrman is such a genius and, um, always comes up with the best options. So yeah, I'm, I'm very excited about that. And then for lanterns, I am so thrilled to be a part of the DC

• 47:10Speaker 04

  universe and it's really cool. And I also, as a kid, Green Lantern was my favorite guy. And I love, there was a lot of, you know, I mean, everybody knew Superman and Batman and Spider-Man was a big one. And, but, um, I know Spider-Man's Marvel, but, um, but, but Green Lantern, there was something about the, the using of your will and your imagination to create something in the world, uh, was so appealing to me. And I just liked the colors and I liked the ring and I thought it was all very cool.

• 47:44Hoda Kotb?

  Cool. Well, I'm happy for you. It seems like I, I repeat this thing in my life sometimes, sometimes when I'm in a funk, but it always works. I always say, good things keep happening to me, even when everything's going wrong. Like I had a thing the other day where my kids were, everyone was crazy and everyone was, it wasn't working. And everyone went to bed mad and I woke up and I'm like, I'm gonna call my, I'm gonna text my trainer, see if he can meet me early. So he met me at five instead of 5:15 and I go, can you meet? He goes, yes. I go, good things keep happening to meet me. So I got in the car and I drove and I'm like, good things keep happening to me. The kids slept through the night. I kept going. Good things keep happening to me. There's a parking place right front because I'm early. This is amazing. But I kept it

• 48:23Hoda Kotb?

  going. And by the end of the day, I was like, today's awesome. It started horribly, but it's that whole weird repeating over and over and over that sometimes gives you something, gets you out of it. Cause getting out of a funk is hard. I mean, you can get deep in it. How do you get out?

• 48:42Speaker 04

  I was like, you know, with my alcoholism, I was having the, the opposite thing. It was like, this is so bad. This is bad. You know, like you, you, I was, and the more bad things were, the, the more I wanted to escape. And the, and so when you realize that you can reverse that spiral and do what you did, which is harder to do because it's very easy to, to see all of the bad things in your life. And especially when things are very bad, it's hard to focus on the good things. But if you, if you grab that thread and start to unravel.

• 49:15Hoda Kotb?

  Grab it. Even if you're making it up. Totally. Who cares? Doesn't even matter. All right. But as we wrap this up, first of all, um, I think you're amazing. But as we wrap this up, um, there are people who are listening who may be in a, in a really not a good place in their life. They're looking for a way to kind of seek joy, to find it. You may not find it today or tomorrow, but, but there's a path to it. What, how would you advise or how would you help out if a friend said, I'm in a total funk and I want joy. I want to get that. How would you advise?

• 49:50Speaker 04

  Gosh. I mean, the first thing I would say is come over, let's hang out or, or, um, um, I love, I've been in a thing recently where I've, I've been going into virtual reality worlds with friends and, you know, everybody travels and my, my sister lives in Oakland and my brother's in Los Angeles. But, um, uh, you know, all, all four of us siblings are kind of spread out. And so I think that's the main thing. For me, always going for connection, any kind of human connection, um, even just walking outside or, or going to a coffee shop and sitting there and being around other people, um, is helpful.

• 50:35Speaker 04

  I think isolating is something that we, I certainly did quite a lot of that in my life and it never helped as much. And just sort of forcing myself, even if I didn't feel like it, to, to put on some clothes and get out of the house, um, and just look around at, at the world and, and, and almost like homework. Find five beautiful things and, and, and, um, and write them down and hold on to it, even if it's like, wow, I, this piece of toast is kind of burnt, but in a, I actually like the way it looks. Tastes horrible, but.

• 51:18Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah. I like that. I like that. I like that. I like that too. I like find five things. You're right. There's gotta be five. Just look around. Well, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the Joy 101 Podcast. I'm so happy to be talking to you. Okay.

• 51:33Speaker 04

  Thank you so much. Thank you for doing this lovely podcast.

• 51:37Hoda Kotb?

  What a great conversation. And, you know, I love to end all of these with a quote. And let me tell you something, I got a winner for you. You're gonna want this one. This is by a guy named Vex King. Okay? Listen to this.

• 51:51Hoda Kotb?

  "You are not a machine. You are a soul who needs music, connection, sunsets, laughter, and small pockets of joy. Prioritize them like your life depends on it, because it does. Life isn't meant to be a cycle of stress and survival. Pause, look up, let the sunset remind you, you are here to live, not just to hustle. Life is not a to-do list. It is a gift. Walk slower, hug longer, laugh louder, love deeper. The clock may be ticking, but your presence is timeless. We've been conditioned to believe that constant productivity equals worth. But humans were not designed for endless output.

• 52:33Hoda Kotb?

  We need moments of wonder, connection, and rest, not as rewards for hard work, but as essential ingredients for a meaningful life." Isn't that amazing? That's Vex King.

• 52:52Hoda Kotb?

  I've realized that joy doesn't always come from those big moments. Sometimes you find it on the most ordinary day. I'll pop into a CVS for toothpaste or paper towels, and it never seems to be just a quick errand. Maybe I'll grab a delicious Well Market trail mix or wander over to the Joyward Collection. That's part of the fun. So the next time you're checking something off your to-do list, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You might go in for one thing and leave with a little more joy. Visit your local CVS pharmacy, sponsored by CVS. I'm Melissa Jelton, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police wrote off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge.

• 53:38Speaker 05

  You never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.

• 53:43Hoda Kotb?

  And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to iHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  October is Black Fiction Month, and the Black Lit podcast explores the minds of Sebo Campbell.

• 54:08Speaker 04

  How speculative fiction works is you enter into a story with a question.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Nisi Shaw. What kind of world would it be if these people had not perished? And Octavia Butler. In science fiction and fantasy, I can do absolutely anything. As they posed the question, what if? Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, on iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 54:32Hoda Kotb?

  On recent episodes of The Questlove Show, I chatted with JoJo about her music and Wallow267 about his story and everything in between.

• 54:39Speaker 06

  Don't invite me to karaoke. I'm gonna make it weird. Someone's gonna try to sing "Leave, Get Out," or "Too Little, Too Late," or "Baby, It's You."

• 54:46Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, no.

• 54:46Speaker 06

  And I'm gonna be like, okay, cool.

• 54:49Hoda Kotb?

  Check out my conversation with JoJo, Wallow267, and more on The Questlove Show. Listen to The Questlove Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Peace.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.