1402: Still Losing Sleep from the Neighborhood Creep? | Feedback Friday

On episode 517 https://www.jordanharbinger.com/trouble-runs-deep-with-the-neighborhood-creep-feedback-friday/, a headless squirrel appeared at your door. Now you have news about the neighbor who put it there. Welcome to another Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger https://twitter.com/JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi https://twitter.com/GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1402 https://jordanharbinger.com/1402 On This Week's Feedback Friday: Back in episode 517 https://www.jordanharbinger.com/trouble-runs-deep-with-the-neighborhood-creep-feedback-friday/, you told us about the neighbor who wormed his way into the lives of the two girls in your care, then spent years harassing you — right down to a headless squirrel at your back door. Five years and countless reports later, you're back with news about the man next door. What's changed? You and your estranged wife have been "working on things" for years — through her affairs, a move-out, and a baby with another man. Now she says she isn't ready to commit, yet you still hope she'll choose you. Is it love that keeps you coming back, or are you clinging to the family you'd hoped to have? At 45, after nine years in the same niche role, you've built a respected network — executives, board members, and peers you can call to talk shop. Yet a year of job hunting, even with a career coach holding you to Jordan's own course, has gone nowhere. Is the networking advice flawed, or is something missing? Recommendation of the Week: Sleep Apnea Screening — Jordan's nudge for snorers and the chronically groggy to get tested, since this slow-acting condition goes undiagnosed in a surprising number of people, and it isn't just a weight issue. Could a simple at-home test finally explain why you wake up tired? You started listening to Feedback Friday for the drama and stayed as the show's approach to problem-solving began showing up in your own life. Now you're curious how years of guests and letters have shaped Jordan and Gabe themselves — on marriage, psychopathy, and more. What have they learned the most about? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger https://twitter.com/JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger https://www.instagram.com/jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi https://twitter.com/GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi https://www.instagram.com/gabrielmizrahi/. And if you're still game to support us, please leave a review here https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/id1344999619?mt=2&ls=1 — even one sentence helps! Sign up for Six-Minute Networking https://jordanharbinger.com/course — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course https://jordanharbinger.com/course! Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee Bit Wiser https://www.jordanharbinger.com/news/ newsletter today and start filling your Wednesdays with wisdom! Do you even Reddit, bro? Join us at r/JordanHarbinger https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanHarbinger/! This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors https://www.jordanharbinger.com/deals/: Chime: Open an account in two minutes: chime.com/jhs https://www.chime.com/jhsZipRecruiter: Learn more at ziprecruiter.com/jordan https://www.ziprecruiter.com/jordanProgressive Insurance: Free online quote: progressive.com https://www.progressive.com/Quince: Free shipping & 365-day returns: quince.com/jordan https://www.quince.com/jordanSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 1:04Speaker 01

  Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, my guy living in Sin in the city of Berlin, Gabriel Mizrahi.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  I don't know if subletting a Turkish woman's apartment alone in Prenzlauer qualifies as living in Sin, but yeah, I don't know. Maybe the Overton window has shifted and I didn't know.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  You're a whore for solitude, Gabe. Just accept it.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  I guess I've been wearing that scarlet letter for a while.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Haven't I? Yeah, you're right.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Nomad of ill repute. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. Our mission is to help you become a better-informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks: mafia enforcers, gold smugglers, tech luminaries, astronauts. This week, we had Dr. Leslie John, author of Revealing: The Underrated Power of Oversharing. We talked about the science of self-disclosure, how it brings us closer, when to disclose, when not to disclose, and how to do it tactfully. And of course, some oversharing of my own, and hers for that matter. A great mix of science and practical in this one. I also sat down with Tom Rath, author of What's the Point: Turning Purpose Into Your Daily Superpower. We talked about how purpose is not a single calling waiting to be found,

• 2:12Speaker 01

  it's the daily practice of connecting your time, skills, and attention to a concrete human benefit. We talk about passion and happiness, contribution, all that good stuff. Tom is kind of an OG in the space. He came up with Clifton Strengths, which if you've ever had a real job, unlike myself, for more than a couple of years anyway, you've taken one of these strengths things. He's just a real authority in the field. He's been around forever. Finally, we had a Skeptical Sunday last Sunday on bail reform. On Fridays, though, we take listener letters, offer advice, and traipse through the fields of your most befuddling life conundrum. Before we kick off today, a bit of sad news. After 70 or so additions, we're hitting pause on We Bit Wiser. There's no funeral just yet, but it's on permanent,

• 2:55Speaker 01

  semi-permanent hiatus, whatever they say in the TV business. I love putting this thing out. I know, Gabe, we enjoyed writing this, but it's just, it's a big investment in a larger project, and we decided that we don't have the bandwidth to keep doing it every couple of weeks. We might revive it down the road. Also, AI has done serious damage to the sort of ecosystem of newsletters, where a lot of the money that used to sponsor people's newsletters, even just massive ones, they're taking pennies on the dollar. And it's like, okay, I don't need to do this. So who knows? We might revive it down the road. Maybe we'll continue putting out smaller doses of advice and ideas and other forms. But for now, we will not be doing a regular newsletter. So I just wanted to let you guys know. Makes me a little sad, because again, I loved We Bit Wiser. People could hit reply. There was a lot of feedback that was really good on it. But there's just only so many

• 3:40Speaker 01

  hours in the day, and we put out so much other content. We just, we gotta prioritize. I also want to thank each and every one of you who subscribed, read the newsletter, hit reply, shared your responses. We really loved those exchanges. And it was special to hear how our ideas landed with you guys over the past couple of years. Anyway, don't despair. You'll find a lot of the same ideas here on Feedback Friday and in the interviews, of course. All right, let's dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Hey, Jordan and Gabe. Sorry for the horrifying reminder, but back in 2021, I contacted you about my pedophile psychopath neighbor. That was episode 517.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Right. So this is the squirrel in mailbox story?

• 4:18Speaker 02

  The squirrel in mailbox.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  The squirrel in mailbox story, yes.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  The very same, where the reference originated, yes.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  I always kind of wondered if we would get an update on this, because it's just such a, that was such a crazy tale.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  So for anyone who doesn't remember this letter, or maybe you started listening after this aired, this was a wild story. So our friend here first wrote in because she had become guardian to two teenage girls, I think they were 12 and 14, who had apparently suffered horrific abuse by their father and I think his friend. But then she had this neighbor, and this neighbor slowly started inserting himself into their lives. And he started inviting the girls to like hang out at his house with his daughters. And then soon after, he started wanting to hang out without them, alone. And according to our friend, he undermined her relationship with the girls and basically turned them against her. And the older girl ended up having some kind of breakdown.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Man, ugh, right. And our friend here had a therapist who was like, he can't be that bad of a guy. Let him hang out with him. And then later was like, well, it's your fault the older girl had a breakdown. Why'd you let her do that?

• 5:20Speaker 02

  That's how she explained it to us, yes. Which is insane to even think about that somebody in that position would have that opinion, but who knows how those conversations went down. Anyway, once DCF banned him from having contact with the girls and our friend got restraining orders against him, he began harassing her, the woman who wrote in directly in a variety of ways.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  But then the younger girl moved in with him, right?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Moved in with him, that's right, at 19 years old. So the story there was, she went through a bad breakup and future squirrel guy was like, come, you can live with me. She was an adult, so she could legally decide to do that. But our friend still reported him for violating the restraining order.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Jeez. So, and witnesses saw him sexually abusing her when she was at the house, right?

• 6:03Speaker 02

  That's what our friend says, yes. But then a few weeks later, this younger daughter moved back into her parents' house, and tragically, she took her own life there.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  God, that's right. This is so heartbreaking. This poor family.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  So horrible. And then the neighbor continued terrorizing our friend. Like, for example, a few months after her death, she found pictures of both girls, when they were younger, thrown on the ground outside her back door, pictures that she knew he had.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  And right before the anniversary of the youngest's suicide, she found a decapitated squirrel at the back door, which, you know, doesn't happen, kind of.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Which is where squirrel in your mailbox came from.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know how back door became mailbox, but that's where it started.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  It's more vivid, I guess.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Punchier. Yeah, you know how we do. Everything becomes a little, a bit, so to speak.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Along the way, she also learned that there were other girls this guy allegedly targeted starting decades ago. And at the time, he was also regularly posting pictures of him and his granddaughter, like in bed together. I think he was shirtless.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  That's creepy AF. I mean, that's, so she was rightfully like, he's gonna hurt that little girl, but you know.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  But no proof of that.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  And so she was asking how to protect herself and potentially other girls when she doesn't have enough evidence to stop this guy.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Yes. That's where we left off. So she goes on. "Hard to believe, but another five years later, he's continued to stalk and harass me. I am so grateful for the advice you gave me. I never responded to him. I always walked away as soon as he appeared. He's been unrelenting, but I never did anything to escalate things. I did report him to everyone, including the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, but no one ever investigated. Then, suddenly, a few months ago, he deleted himself entirely from all social media. No idea why. But here's the good news. He screwed up his finances so badly that he was facing foreclosure on his house, and now it's up for sale."

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Yes, that's great news. I mean, not always, but often, these people bury themselves eventually, and it's pretty sweet when that happens.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Rumors swirl about where he'll land, but it won't be on my block. I can go for walks, do yard work, and not have the daily reminder of seeing his face, his cars, his awful daughter.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Must be a massive relief.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  Your advice got me through these 10 years of hell. I still have complex PTSD because of everything he did. Still see a therapist, still working to heal and recover. But not being a person who's used to restraining herself during conflict, I am so impressed with myself that I managed to never let him bait me into a confrontation. One friend suggested that I politely ask him to leave me alone. L-O-L. Yeah, psychopaths appreciate polite requests. It did cost me a lot in terms of friendships, but I got better at recognizing the people who are truly there without judgment. I couldn't have done it without the wisdom you shared and your patience with my extremely vulnerable state when I reached out. So thank you. In many ways, you saved me."

• 8:55Speaker 01

  That's nice of you to say, but you're the one who had to live next to this guy, so you saved you. And I'm proud of you.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  100%. Although squirrel guy might have taken a final shot at me. My car mysteriously moved three feet in my driveway and hit my garage recently. Sigh.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Well, so like he just pushed it, but it was in park?

• 9:15Speaker 02

  I don't know. Put a small dent in your garage door at two and a half miles per hour out of revenge?

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Look, maybe he was hoping for worse. Maybe he just wanted to spook her without inviting huge trouble. Maybe he used a car to push it. I don't know, Gabe. I do wonder if he was behind the car thing, or maybe, forgive me if this is mildly offensive, I don't mean it this way, but maybe she's so hyper vigilant after all of this stuff from this guy that she's attributing every minor weird thing to him, which would be completely understandable.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, the good news is, there was no dead rodent under the floor mat or something.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Right. No headless rat tucked into the vanity mirror or anything like that.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  That's progress. So she wraps up. "But, free at last, free at last, free at last. Signed, a victorious mama bear who honestly was pretty scared, but managed to not become ensnared and is now finally coming up for air after years of having to beware this creep who would leave a squirrel anywhere." Well, I'm now thinking about it. Maybe it's not anywhere. It's just the back door. But in our minds, it could be anywhere. Mailbox, P.O. box, car.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Well, look, this is incredible news.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  I'm so happy for you, my friend. Wow.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  This was definitely one of the more disturbing stories we've taken on the show for many reasons. And obviously, something about the dead squirrel lodged itself in my brain. So every so often, I'd be like, huh, what squirrel guy? What's going on with that guy? I hope our friend is okay. So once again, I'm deeply sorry you endured so much with this guy. I'm so sorry about what happened with the girl you adopted slash became guardian to. It's just heartbreaking what happened with her. And I'm sorry for all the peace and sanity this guy took away from you over the years. You live next to a real life monster. They make Netflix serious about these people for a reason, because it's fricking terrifying and gripping. And everyone's rooting for the innocent woman next door who's finding dead animals on the doorstep. You know, this isn't the same situation, Gabe, but have you ever seen My Terrible Ex? I can't remember exactly what it's called, but it's something about exes on Netflix.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  And it's just, it's a series and each one is about a different ex. These are the worst people and it's so scary how up to the line someone can get with stalking before the police are like, oh yeah, this is a problem. It's really, really scary. Anyway, recapping all this now, it's so insane.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  I can't believe all of this happened to one person for 10 years. That's a long time to live next to someone like this.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Really next level. It's just a living nightmare and I'm so overjoyed that this chapter is finally over. My friend's so relieved.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Bro, if we feel this way, I can only imagine how you, she feels. It must be wild.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  It must be like getting your life back, that you can breathe again, you can sleep. The proverbial weight off the shoulders, you can focus. You don't have the constant exhaustion, heightened arousal from constantly scanning your surroundings. It's gotta feel great. So well done for getting through this chapter. And I can only imagine what she's left with now, but yeah, at least this part is over.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  So I know she's not asking for advice. She just wanted to share the update, which we are very happy to share and celebrate. But I do wonder if there's anything we can offer her as she starts this new chapter?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  A Simply Safe package so she can see if anyone's pushing her Ford Focus into the garage door with a lifted F-150. You know, the guy drives a lifted something like she's just one of those guys.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Out of her zone.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Currently 60% off right now. It's simplysafe.com/jordan, not the truck, the alarm.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  She must have cameras set up by now, right? I feel like we, didn't we talk about that in our first response to her? I think that's where the Simply Safe plug began, actually.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  That's the thing. Like, I hope she's checking them. And it seems like, hey, who pushed my car into the garage? Question easily answered, but maybe not. I will say, this reminds me of, this is such a dumb tangent, but I'm doing it. A long time ago, I had ordered a bidet toilet seat when I was in China. Cause I was like, oh my God, these things are game changing. So I ordered one from Amazon and I was like, it'll be there when I get home. Or my neighbor will take it in or whatever. And so it wasn't there when I got home. And we had a Ring doorbell. We were one of the first customers, I guess, of Ring to get these. Like Jen saw an ad for it and bought it, which is not unusual for us. And she grabs the thing and so we look at the footage and we're like, oh, here's a guy stealing our toilet seat.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  And so we reported it because it was, you know, an expensive item that got stolen. And we had the guy's face on camera and the police came. And some journalist writes this police blotter, which is like unusual police stories or exciting police stories. Well, since it was a toilet seat, they called the head of the article, it's called Game of Thrones. That's what they wrote. This is like 2015 or so. And this gets of course picked up, like shared a little bit virally online. It gets picked up by Fox News, the national news desk at Fox.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  And you guys were like quoted in the article and stuff?

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Yes. And they sent a reporter over to the house to interview me about, it must've been a slow news day.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  About your toilet seat stolen.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  About the stolen toilet seat. And so I, of course, being me, I was like, yeah, I hope they've put a lid on this one and flush out the thief. And I had all these toilets and she's like, how long you been working on that?

• 14:00Speaker 02

  By the way, that was pre-AI. That was all my boy off the dome.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Correct, off the dome.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  That was real writing. I love this.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  I misspoke. So that was Fox local news, right? Which gets then, since I was such an idiot, I'd like to take credit for this. Since I was such a dipshit in the interview, they put it on the national news roundup, like the evening news. But also the reporter was like, how did you get video footage of the guy stealing it? I'm like, I have this Ring doorbell. She's like, wow, how does that work? So I demonstrated, that makes national news. Ring emails us and is like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. You just got us national news coverage for package theft, which is one of the reasons we made this thing. We love you. You have a lifetime Ring Pro or whatever it was subscription. You're never paying again for this service.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  They gave you lifetime service?

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Lifetime. Remember, this wasn't owned by Amazon at the time. It was like a startup that was maybe even local and it was just like engineers making a doorbell that you could see.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  And you just gave them free product placement in the best way.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Massive placement. So when Amazon bought them, they're like, we're canceling this. And I was like, no, I have a contract. It's written right here. I have free lifetime. So now in the, in the Ring app, we still use Ring cameras and stuff all over the place. Every month it pops up that our membership is going to run out in 28 days and it counts down the days. And then when it gets to zero, it just starts over again. And you know, there's someone at Amazon who's like, ah, you bastard, right? Cause I've got.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  Probably Jeff Bezos, I would imagine.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Jeff Bezos is just sitting there like, this guy, this guy has a free Ring service. Yeah. They keep being like, hey, we're going to take away your free Ring service. Do you want to keep pro? And I was like, read this email and cry all the way home.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Someone pops into his office like, Jeff, the Blue Origin ship, we're having massive. He said, no, I gotta reset the clock.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Set the clock on this Jordan Harbinger guy. So yeah, someone's job is just to sit there and be like, try to delete my account and then absolutely fail at it.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  That's incredible. I didn't know about this part. So, cause I remember you telling this story years ago, but I don't think I knew about the Ring camera stuff. Wait, did whatever, first of all, did they catch the guy?

• 15:56Speaker 01

  No, of course, because cops are like, this is one reason. I know AI is like in facial recognition is like a whole thing, like a whole Pandora's box. But they're just never going to find this guy. Even if they arrested him for something else, they're not going to go, we should check it and see if he's any of the guys in these videos. They're just never going to look at that, right? So there's no way they're going to be able to run evidence through facial recognition and be like, oh, we caught a guy stealing packages red handed. Oh, look, here's a hundred thousand videos where he's done this for the last 15 years as a professional. And we've got him on all of them. He's going to prison for 20 years.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. But now they'd have to look at each one and they're just like, let's just get him. We got him with five packages. He's going to go to prison for, you know, eight months. That's good enough.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  So you never got your toilet seat back?

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Luckily I bought it with my Amex card and they just paid for it, purchase protection. And Amazon also was like, oh, stolen package refunded. So like basically, no, it didn't cost me anything. Fundly enough, that's what the segment was about was Amex purchase protection also. They were like, oh, you bought it with a credit. They're like, one pro tip for the holiday package theft season is use your credit card that has protection on it, because then you might not be responsible. So that was one of the tips.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Damn. Did Amex reach out?

• 17:03Speaker 01

  They did not. They don't care, probably.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a bummer. Yeah, they don't need it as much, but Ring was hungry for this back in the day. That's amazing. It'd be so funny if the guy who stole the package was like the Ring CEO. And he's just like stealing packages from every house who has this product.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  So they catch the guy and he's like, I can't tell you who hired me, but it was, it was a gig.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  You do what you gotta do.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  That guy must've been pretty, what did he do? Open it and go, what? And then throw it away? Or is he like, this is the best thing I've ever stolen? Beep beep. Ah, right? Like, is he, is he a convert to the bidet tribe?

• 17:32Speaker 02

  Probably. Yeah.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Probably getting product placement for Toshi or something.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  That's right. Now we should probably get back to the subject at hand.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Nightmare at hand.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Anyway, she must've set up cameras, right? Like check the cameras.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  But if you don't have cameras, get cameras anyways. Everybody should have at least a camera aimed towards the front of their house. I mean, there's gotta be a basic tier of each of these things. Anyway, I take your point, Gabe. The constant nightmare is over. The PTSD part is not, the complex PTSD apparently. Which that means that trauma occurred from multiple events stacked up on top of one another. Is that what that means?

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's my understanding. I don't know a ton about it. I think CPST develops from like prolonged repeated trauma. That's also difficult to escape often months or years of it.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  So like childhood abuse, long-term domestic violence, captivity, stuff like that.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Living next to a squirrel wielding psycho, exactly. Or who knows, maybe she went through some stuff before this guy, before even the girls she adopted. I believe complex PTSD can also have unique symptoms, right? It's like, it's all the stuff you would expect from garden variety PTSD. Plus difficulty regulating emotions, sometimes persistent shame or feelings of worthlessness, trouble trusting or maintaining relationships. These can all be part of it.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Complex PTSD can change how you relate to other people. That's what I've read. I mean, it's a tough nut.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  So obviously I hope therapy has been helpful to you and I hope you're making progress there. It's the best place you can be.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I hope it's with a therapist who doesn't encourage you to let the pedo next door, hang out with your traumatized kids or blame you for their breakdowns.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  That would be nice.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Apparently her last therapist got their degree from a cereal box. Unbelievable.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Literally, dude. Graduated from the University of American Samoa, for sure.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Is that where Saul Goodman went to school in Breaking Bad?

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's where he went to law school. They have a psychology program as well, I'm sure.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Why did they pick on American Samoa?

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  It's a made up school, right? I think it's just like, it just sounds like a shady university.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Anyway, complex PTSD is a beast, man. It's gotta be super intense to heal from. Like we keep saying, you've been through a lot, but with your newfound peace and freedom and, you know, time not spent collecting dead animal carcasses, such a great time to really dive into your therapy and there must be a lot to process.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Especially because it sounds like she's lost some friends along the way, which is sad, and that's an interesting detail in context, too.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that jumped out to me in this letter as well. It's hard to know what to make of that, but I can understand why hearing somebody tell her to calmly reason with the monster next door she's been talking about for months, why that would piss her off and make her go like, okay, you're the get this or you don't, I don't tend to convince a friend that I'm actually in trouble here, bye.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  It's a fair point. I also wonder, just given that symptom you mentioned of complex PTSD, the thing about relating to other people, if some of the things she's been through have also made it harder for her to stay close with her friends. I mean, maybe those connections feel more precarious or riskier, maybe being vulnerable with people is harder now. I don't know, maybe it's hard to trust other people, any people, or bear that closeness. I can't say I blame her if she felt that way, given what she's been through, but all the more reason to turn to a solid professional right now and be talking about this exact theme. It sounds like you've been isolated to some degree by all of this, and now is the time to say, okay, I'm gonna turn to the right people because I need a connection, I need insight, I need support. That's what I would be making a priority right now, for sure.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Amen, Gabe. It's really, really hard to do that alone. I would also say you might be experiencing some immediate relief now that the guy's gone, but progress in this might be one step forward, two steps back, or whatever. You might be overjoyed that he's gone, but then devastated by the trauma that he's caused, and those effects can obviously linger. So if your peace comes and goes, it doesn't mean that you're failing at recovery. It's just part of the process, which is rarely linear. So just keep that in mind, so it doesn't sneak up on you.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Right. He might not live next door anymore, but he might live on in your mind for a while.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. So just keep it in mind, so glad the nightmare is behind you. I'm so happy that you get to come back to some semblance of normalcy and come back to yourself. And I hope this creep continues to crash and burn, and the rest of his life is very difficult, and I hope he doesn't hurt any more people, most importantly. Most of all, I hope you continue to feel better and that a whole new chapter of your life opens up. Sending you a huge hug and absolutely zero squirrels in your mailbox, wishing you all the best. You know what makes a great housewarming gift for the people who replace your old psycho neighbor? The fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

• 21:54Speaker 01

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• 23:01Speaker 01

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• 24:07Speaker 01

  Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals and discounts are searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  All right, next up.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Hi, Jordan and Gabe. My estranged wife and I separated about three years ago, but over the past year, she's repeatedly said she wants to work things out. More recently, we started behaving like a couple again, emotionally and romantically, and I genuinely believed we were working toward reconciling. A few weeks ago, I finally asked her directly whether we were actually together. She told me she isn't ready for a committed relationship. I told her I respect her honesty, but that I can't continue something romantic without commitment, because I want a meaningful relationship, and believed that was what we were building toward.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Oof, boy, okay. Tough conversation, I'm sure. Very sorry that did not go the way that you had hoped, but it also sounds like a pretty informative conversation, man. You asked for clarity, you said what you want, she told you where she stands, what she wants, and the process you're in is messy, but conversations like this are essential to clear up the mess and take good care of yourself. So I'm glad you had the chat, well done.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  The difficult part is the history behind this. We met at university, eventually married, and have a wonderful five-year-old daughter. During our marriage, my work required me to spend weeks away from home. My wife struggled with that, and despite my efforts to stay connected and be present when I was home, she repeatedly accused me of cheating. Six months after we married, I discovered she was cheating on me with an ex.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Wow, those accusations are often confessions, right? Projection.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  She initially apologized, but when I returned from another work trip, I discovered the relationship was still continuing. She then told me she no longer wanted our marriage.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Oh, man, my dude. That sucks. So she accuses you of cheating when she's cheating, and then when she's caught, she's like, yeah, I'm not gonna stop that. Wow, that's not okay. I don't wanna jump the gun, but I gotta ask, why on earth do you wanna get back together with this woman? What the heck?

• 26:09Speaker 02

  We remained under the same roof for a while to co-parent. After the following years, there were several attempts at reconciliation, but they repeatedly fell apart, including situations where she was simultaneously involved with other men.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Okay, so they've been through this cycle multiple times, not just this latest round or whatever.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's reliving something with her over and over again, hoping for a different result. Very interesting.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and every time it involves her having relationships with other men, I mean, okay, you're not her choice, bro. We gotta figure this out.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  At one point, she moved out to live with someone else, became pregnant, eventually left that relationship, and later moved back in with me.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Dude, okay.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  You might wanna hold off, because this is gonna get crazier, okay? She had the baby. He's now 15 months old.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  What? I'm frantically searching for a soundbite that could encompass my level of shock and confusion right now. This is so ridiculous. Gabe, the only thing I can come up with is... You are not!

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Is that too cold? I mean, dude, we're not making fun of you. This is just such an entire massive cluster.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, dude. I did not see that one coming. I hope our friend over there is laughing. We, oh, man, we say this in jest.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, we're trying to have a laugh with you, because this is so intense. This is so intense.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  When she moved back in, my wife and I again started trying to rebuild our relationship, only for me to discover she was still seeing the father of her son.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  I just need a moment to process this. So not only is she cheating on him with multiple men, but like...

• 27:45Speaker 02

  She gets pregnant with one of them.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Yes, and then moves back in with him, and then is like, you know, take care of the baby, or maybe moves back in with him and then has the baby. I don't know, it doesn't really matter.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  Unclear.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  But then she's like, oh, I'm gonna keep seeing the other guy. Like, what is going on here?

• 28:00Speaker 02

  While our boy believes that they are working on things.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Yes, okay, so Uncle Jordan gotta peek out in a minute here and lay down the law.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Despite all of that, I still love her.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Okay, I hear you, but loving her now is just reckless, heedless, unkind to yourself, and utterly out of touch with reality here. I believe you. When you say you love her, I believe you, but you can still love her and need to get the hell out of this toxic, terrible situation, and I think it's time to accept this.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  What makes this particularly confusing for me is what has happened on my side. Since our separation, I've tried dating other women, but I haven't been able to emotionally attach to them. One relationship lasted several months. Another woman even talked about marriage and becoming a stepmother to my daughter, but I couldn't open myself up emotionally. I eventually ended those relationships because I knew I wasn't fully invested. Meanwhile, I've poured myself into being a father and building my career. My daughter has been my anchor throughout all of this, and being her father is the most important thing in my life. My wife herself tells me I'm a great father, which means a lot to me. My relationship with the baby is strictly as a co-parent.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  I treat him with love and care for my daughter's sake, but he is not my biological child. And yet, after everything that's happened... I still find myself hoping that my wife will eventually choose me. Am I holding on because I genuinely love her and believe our family can still be rebuilt? Or have I become emotionally attached to the hope of getting back the family and marriage I wanted? Why can't I seem to emotionally let go of her or attach to someone else? Despite knowing that the relationship we've had has repeatedly hurt me? And most importantly, what do I do now? Do I accept that she has told me she doesn't want a committed relationship? And finally let go?

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Or is there something I'm failing to understand about why I keep going back to her?

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Also, yes, and probably even more slash equally important.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Signed, looking for the fix when I just can't seem to quit. My wife, who has other people in the mix and I can't find my way out of this conflict.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Okay. Gabe, I gotta thank you for making me a more compassionate person over the years because Jordan from 10, 15 years ago would not have handled this that well.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  What would he say?

• 30:20Speaker 01

  There's just people screaming at their radios right now that'd probably be like, you simp. What is wrong with you? Grow a spine. I can't believe how pathetic this is. There's a part of me that's like kind of there too, but also there's, this is happening for a reason. And it's, it goes way back and you've got to fix the root cause or you're going to end up in this mess. And dude, you have kids or a kid and then another kid that has a crap father probably or not one. And your crazy ass wife as a mom. Sorry, not sorry. I mean, that's just tragic to me. Anyway. First of all, thank you sincerely for being so open with us about all this. This is compassionate, mature Jordan here, thankfully. And thank you for walking us through this incredibly tumultuous relationship that you're in. And for owning up to all these decisions and feelings. I really appreciate that.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  And I'm very sorry for all the pain you've, I mean, I'm having secondhand pain from this and it's awful. You're still experiencing this in your marriage, all the confusion, the dashed hopes, the endless cycle of reconciled fake reconciliation and separation. Your heart must just be shot, man. You gotta have level, whatever adrenal fatigue from all this. This was a marathon to read. I can't even imagine what it was like to live this. So here's the deal, man. I'm going to give it to you straight because I actually would love to see you get through this. You and your wife are not meant to be married or together at all. I mean, your marriage is over. It's been over from, it never kind of started. She was always cheating on you. You found out six months in, dude, it probably, she probably had that relationship before you guys even tied the knot. I'm just going to be straight about it.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  So it's been over for a very long time. If there was ever even a real marriage here. You have way more than enough information now to know that this relationship, the relationship you want is never going to happen with this woman, ever. It's never going to happen, ever. I have to say that over and over because I feel like you have a little bit of hope about this. Your wife has told you, she has shown you with her actions again and again and again, that she is not even remotely interested in rebuilding your marriage in a real and healthy way. You are her fallback for when other guys don't work out. That's it. Take her at her word, bro. Let go. Now, why she's having all these relationships with all these people and then she keeps going off and coming back to you?

• 32:31Speaker 01

  I mean, I have vague theories like I mentioned before, they just don't even matter right now. I think your wife has serious issues. She needs to work out, obviously. I hope she does that one day, but that's her business, man. Your business is taking care of you because you got a kid. And the sense I'm getting is that you have not even been doing that at all, not, not taking care of a kid. I mean, taking care of yourself, right? You've been clinging to this crazy woman, holding out hope for this woman, welcoming her back every time she goes strays, including when she's got knocked up with some other guy's kid, which is quite a choice. And you've given her chance after chance and assumed she was on the same page, even though she's totally full of it. You've been hurt so many times. Obviously I'm, I'll be honest here. I'm pretty angry with your wife. I think she's behaved callously, recklessly, hurtfully.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  There's something wrong with her, but also what an asshole. She's an asshole, man. I'm sorry. You've absolutely participated though, in that mess. This mess does not exist without you, without your endless chances, without your naive hopes, without your tolerance for this just top shelf bullshit and her almost comical degree of disrespect and disregard for your wellbeing. And I understand that you want to rebuild your marriage. I understand that you love your wife. This is not a healthy person to love. This is not a person who deserves your love. And as reckless and hurtful as she has been towards you, it's important for you to see that. At this point, you have been equally reckless and hurtful towards yourself by remaining involved with somebody who would do all of this.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  So your last question is the right one. You asked, why? Are you holding on because you genuinely love her? You tell me, do you genuinely love her or are you fighting for something? Are you insisting on something that might have way more to do with you and what you want to see happen?

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Or what you don't want to see happen?

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Right, or both. Yeah.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  And if you do love her, why? And what is the quality of that love that you're talking about? How does it feel for you to love someone? Take a deep breath, Papa. You earned it.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  I'm worked up. I know. I'm like, ooh, is it the caffeine or am I having a mild heart attack? I am 46. Anything can happen.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Your Oura ring just logged some uncategorized activity and it's beautiful for me to watch.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Are you golfing right now? Are you golfing?

• 34:38Speaker 02

  You and that guy from a couple of weeks ago just burned 12,000 calories talking.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  People will say, hey, man, you've lost a lot of weight. You know what the trick is? Reading Feedback Friday letters and then punching holes in the wall of my studio.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  Reading about repeat infidelity is my cardio. Yeah. Thank you for your honesty and for your passion. And I think, I hope he is taking in these words. That's all I can say. But yeah, back to my question. How does it feel for you to love someone who treats you this way? And do you think that love that you're talking about is being really reflected in your marriage and in your family? I think we know the answer to that.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he has to answer that for himself. And if you have become emotionally attached to the hope of getting back the family and marriage you wanted.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Which by the way, clearly you have. I don't think this is an if.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  Right. Good point. He's asking it like it's a question, but it's not. He's obviously very invested in recreating his marriage. You know what? It's not even his marriage. It's the fantasy of the marriage that he thought he was going to have. But actually it never existed. It never did. She was always screwing this other guy.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  Good point because it was dysfunctional and misaligned from almost the beginning. Yeah. Or maybe earlier.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Yes. The most charitable interpretation we have right now is that six months into their marriage, she was already screwing an ex, right? And cheating on him. So, and that's like her version. It's more likely she just never stopped screwing her ex and then got married anyways because the ex wouldn't marry her. Anyway, given all that, why are you insisting on this marriage despite all of the evidence? What exactly is at stake for you in all this? Here's a better way to ask that question. What would happen to you and what feelings would you have to confront? If you and your terrible wife finally called it quits? That's the question. Gabe, I think he thinks that if she finally chooses him over in fantasy land where that actually happens, it will undo all of the rejection and all of the pain that he's felt over the years because he comes out on top in the end.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  That's what he's waiting around for, but it's like, that's ludicrous.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  He's saying, I'm emotionally attached to the hope of getting back the family and marriage I wanted. He might actually be saying, I'm attached to the hope that I won't have to feel what it feels like if I don't get back the family and marriage I wanted.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Bingo. Which I have to imagine means feeling all of the feelings, the deep sadness, tons of anger, probably a fair amount of shame, a lot of fear about who he is without this woman, a lot of uncertainty about what comes next. Remember they met in university. So he hasn't had like the time to become a fully formed adult man without her.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  Who am I if I'm not this woman's husband?

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. And I kind of get that, right? I got married at 35. So if it's like, oh my gosh, who am I without my wife? Well, I'm the guy I was back then, but like, you know, a little bit more grown. Whereas this guy's like, no, my life without this person is like this weird black box. This is like a vague funhouse mirror image and that's scarier. So my theory is that all of the uncertainty and everything is being kept at bay by his hard-headed insistence on making it all work eventually one day, maybe?

• 37:29Speaker 02

  I think it's a very good theory. And what's at stake here might not just be those specific feelings around his wife and their marriage, but maybe his emotional life in general, because I have to wonder how much this guy is tamped down for a very long time in order to stay connected to this person who has hurt him and be a strong father to his kid.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, but where did he learn that, man?

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Exactly. And so there's almost certainly an even deeper layer to this always, which is his own past, his own early experiences and how that led him into this cycle that he keeps repeating. His last question, I think, is his best question. Why do I keep going back to her? What am I failing to understand? Unfortunately, we can't tell you that with total certainty. We would need to know so much more about you.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  So much more. He's pointing at a door with a sign on it that says, childhood. But he hasn't shown us into that room at all.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Which is also kind of interesting to me that he's asking that question without providing the information required to answer it. But maybe that's a sign that he himself doesn't understand this more primitive stuff. Which would maybe make sense because if he understood it better, he maybe wouldn't be stuck in the cycle.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Look, we can throw out all kinds of armchair psychologists or whatever theories here, but like, well, maybe his mother's got mental illness like narcissism or something like that. Maybe she's surprisingly like that. Or like, maybe he grew up without a dad. Who knows, right? There's all kinds of stuff that can inform this. But yeah, he wouldn't be writing us if he was really aware of all these patterns and where they came from, right?

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Well, because we're here, I'm just going to fall on the sword and say that it's absolutely.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Is it time to go to therapy, Gabriel? Is it time to go to therapy?

• 39:00Speaker 02

  The T word, baby. Get in there. The S word, sessions. The C word, couch, all the words. I assume you would have told us if you were there. I gather you're not, but if you really want to understand what's keeping you stuck, what led you here and what's keeping you stuck, you gotta start talking, my dude, and you gotta go backward. Cause these answers that you're looking for, they are yours and yours alone to find. You're gonna have to talk about mom. You're gonna have to talk about dad. You're gonna have to talk about childhood, early experiences, past partners, if there are any, the wounds that you have, what your relationship with your wife has brought up for you, how you've responded to her, what these patterns reveal about you, all of that. There's some really important excavating to do. You are clearly compelled to repeat this pattern. So the question you need to chase is why? And where did it begin?

• 39:45Speaker 01

  I also strongly suspect, and I guess this also speaks to childhood stuff, that our friend here is struggling in a big way with, well, a basic sense of confidence and self-worth. On some level, he must feel he doesn't deserve better than this, or he wouldn't stay. And the pain and humiliation that he's endured by taking his wife back again and again. It's just gotta be confirming some core belief for him and/or it must be fulfilling some kind of function for him. Again, what this is and why that's there, he needs to figure that out. All we can do is be somewhat objective outsiders and say, my dude, look at the way your wife has treated you. Look at the way you've let her treat you. What does that say about what you believe you deserve in this life, man? And then encourage you to really chase down the answer to that. So I hope you get to do that, bud.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  My hope for you is that you get the insights you need and finally separate from your wife, not necessarily in that order. You can close this door while working on why you keep opening it. Cause honestly, as crucial as analysis is for you, nothing will teach you more than finally saying enough is enough and being willing to step into a new chapter. All those difficult feelings you haven't had to feel because you've been trying with your wife, one-sided, what if you've been trying only? That's the other part that's just so sad. You're gonna be in touch with all of those feelings, also some pretty good feelings as well. It's gonna be intense, but it's gonna be great. And it's gonna teach you a lot about what you've been avoiding by clinging to this terrible woman who has caused you so much pain.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  And by the way, your daughter, who even if she doesn't fully understand what mom is up to or why dad is going through it, she must be picking up on this dysfunction in the house in some way and is having a very troubling form of love modeled for her in the house. So I know how much your daughter means to you. I know how much being a good father means to you. So I would just keep that in mind as well, what all of this means for your child. And for that matter, for her half-brother, although I know your relationship with him is complicated. And remember that you are not just doing this for yourself.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Agreed. I also want to remind you that your family can still have a future, even if your marriage doesn't. Your wife doesn't have to choose you in order for you to remain a loving, present father. In fact, I would argue that without her, it's gonna be a lot easier because you won't be expending all this energy being stabbed in the heart all the damn time. I'm very sorry you went through this, are going through this, bud, but I am not sorry that you've arrived at this point right now where the dysfunction is forcing you to confront the fact that something has to change. Take good care of yourself, man, and good luck. Keep us posted. And now we're gonna impregnate your ears with the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

• 42:15Speaker 01

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• 43:19Speaker 01

  This episode is sponsored in part by Progressive Insurance. Everyone talks about how challenging it is to raise kids, but what about protecting them? Outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates, where do we even start? Well, protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage for you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, kitchen cabinet locks and baby gates of insurance. Don't wait, get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. Also, you guys, there's a subreddit for the show, cause you know you want to talk about that last one. Start a thread or join a thread over there on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Okay, back to Feedback Friday.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  All right, next up.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Dear Jordan and Gabriel, I'm writing this letter after following Jordan's number one piece of advice for years. Build your network and discovering that there may be a shortcoming in this grandiose strategy.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  Did he mean grandiose? Is that what he meant to say?

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think he meant grand, but I think he's making fun of how you say grandiose.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Okay. So he's roasting me and low-key shitting on my central life philosophy. Great, fun way to start. Let's hear it.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  I'm 45. I work in a fairly niche field, not many people in my profession. I've been in the same role for over nine years with the same employer. It's hard to picture staying in this role until retirement, but if I don't move now, I'm certainly not going to become more employable by waiting. I have a real network in my industry. I'm active and well-regarded. I can call someone up to talk through a tricky technical problem. I'm in touch with executives and board members at very large companies. I volunteer in professional associations where I took on responsibilities. My network exists and it has real value. And yet I've been trying to change jobs for over a year and I'm not getting anywhere. That network is great for talking shop with peers,

• 45:12Speaker 02

  but it never turned into a network of opportunities for a new role. I even went as far as hiring a career coach to help me find a job. Practically, I hired someone to hold me accountable for applying your Build Your Network course, send emails, look for introductions, check on former colleagues, et cetera. This did not help. The coach says all her clients are in the same situation because of the economic situation and tough job market.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Which, to be fair, that might be totally playing a role. I know it's a very weird time economically around the world right now. That said, I get emails pretty much every week from people who use Six Minute Networking to find jobs. So there's always a way.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  And yes, my network knows that I'm looking for a job, at least a fair share of it. What would you do in my shoes? Can you think of something I may have missed in my networking? And if I really haven't missed anything in how I applied your advice, what does that say about your usual advice on networking? Signed, a connected fellow, hitting the limits of rubbing elbows.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Interesting. First things first, well done on taking your relationship seriously. Well done on being able to pick up the phone and talk shop with all these people. And kudos to you for enlisting so much support. Look, your network, the career coach, that's important. It keeps you on track, hopefully opens new doors. Really cool. I know it's gonna make a huge difference in your career. Second, look, I hear you want all this. This is a fair challenge. Your relationships can definitely improve your access to people and to information, but they don't automatically guarantee that a future employer has the mandate and a budget to hire someone and to hire you out of all the candidates. So I'm gonna go ahead and pretend you didn't mock my occasional British pronunciation of certain words and then drag my universally beloved, extremely practical and totally free networking course

• 46:54Speaker 01

  over at sixminutenetworking.com, still available. I'm gonna pretend none of that happened and share some thoughts with you. My first thought is, there's the nuts and bolts work of maintaining your relationships and there's the how you show up in those relationships. Doing all the legwork stuff in Six Minute Networking is crucial. Warming up old contacts, planting seeds, reaching out during big life moments, helping people out. But if you don't do that with warmth and with curiosity and with generosity, with follow-through, with all your talent and intelligence, in other words, with a real substance, the techniques will only really take you so far. Now, I'm not saying you haven't done that. For all we know, you've been brilliant in all these interactions. And given how well-regarded you are, it's likely that you have. I'm just saying it for every sake of clarity here. But you also said that your network is great for talking shop with peers.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  And I guess I wonder what talking shop means because it, I feel like there's a clue here. Like, yes, for sure, being able to hop on the phone with other people in your world and talk out a problem, sitting on boards, volunteering with organizations, that's awesome. I'm all for it. But are you, are you truly helping meet those people's needs? When you and a peer talk out an issue, do you follow up with them a couple of weeks later and say like, here's what I've learned since we last spoke? Here's how I've implemented it in my world. Here's how you can do the same. Let me know if I can help. When you meet someone great, do you turn around and introduce them to somebody else you think they should meet for a specific reason? The same kinds of introductions you're hoping that they'll make for you, basically? Are you doing that?

• 48:14Speaker 02

  Talking shop and creating shop are different things.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Yes. And again, maybe you're doing that, but I just want to remind you that this relationship building stuff, it's simple, but it's not about just checking boxes like, well, texted that old colleague a six-word message today. That's my relationship building sorted. Or I volunteer for the licensing board, so I'm automatically plugged in. What you do in these places, how you contribute concretely in these interactions, that matters immensely. And on a related note, there is a difference between professional respect and hiring confidence. Like people generally knowing you can solve certain problems, that does not mean that they're gonna know exactly where you fit in another organization or which organizations you want to work at, specific roles that you need help accessing. And then of course, it's not gonna help

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Them actually advocate for you. You have to connect those dots for people. A nice test for this is if I were to ask three people in your network what job you want next and why you'd be great at it, would I get roughly the same answer from those three people? Or would they be like, oh, I don't know. I mean, he's good at running groups and he's great with software code, but like, I don't know, I'm not sure. Being known to be looking versus actually asking, those are also two different things. By the way, a lot of good networkers struggle with this piece. They don't directly ask for the help they need. They're generous. I get this question all the time when I give keynotes of people like, what if I do? And it's exactly this. They're generous, but generosity doesn't mean solving everybody else's problems and

• 49:44Speaker 01

  then just politely hoping somebody magically intuits your needs and what you want. So if that might be happening, my advice would be to make more direct asks of people and do more of the legwork for them. It is crucial to give people the information they need to best help you. That said, you might also be totally right. Your network's great for talking shop with peers, but it's not generating job opportunities. But if that's the case, isn't the logical answer to keep expanding your network to include people who are plugged into these opportunities rather than go, maybe this networking stuff's not all it's cracked up to be? It sounds to me like you're not getting the results you want, which I know is frustrating. I mean, I get it. And instead of redirecting your hard work to new places that might open these doors,

• 50:28Speaker 01

  you're just sort of turning your frustration into this criticism, which is tempting to do. And, but I promise you, it's not going to get you very far, certainly not get you a job that you want. So unless you literally know every single person in your industry around the world and your BFFs would have of them, which I doubt, right? There's definitely then room for you to branch out and meet some new folks. For example, peers in other countries and other functions within your same industry in adjacent fields. Who knows, maybe in completely different industries. Networking diversity is very important, and I see this mistake a lot. You know, real estate agents are like, I know every real estate agent in the whole town. Cool, but do you know people who aren't in real estate? And the answer is usually no. So it's like, ooh, you know, that's a problem. For example, in the podcasting world, there are tons of people who all know the same

• 51:12Speaker 01

  people and the same job openings and the same companies and the same founders. So making more contacts within that niche, that actually just adds very little. But if somebody who works in podcasting also has strong relationships in radio and satellite radio, print journalism, audio tech space, whatever, you get the picture. Okay. So you might need more connections in a totally different hiring circle, more than you need another 50 people who are in your exact pond. And if you're still not getting the job opportunities you want, then it might be time to be a little more flexible and a little more playful. For example, rather than hunting for jobs, I would hunt for needs. What do people in your world actually need? What problems are they desperately trying to solve? What do the people in their networks need?

• 51:56Speaker 01

  And try to help answer those things. I cannot tell you how many stories I've heard over the years of people who invented jobs for themselves just by being useful. Executives often don't know they need someone until they see how much someone has helped. And then they're like, oh crap, we can't afford not to hire this person. In fact, I have an awesome example of this. I think I've told this on the show before. There was a guy, this is in a book I read years ago. There was a kid, actually. He was in the customer service of a yacht company and he kept getting emails from people and they'd be like, I have this problem with this boat. I have this problem with this boat. And it wasn't his job to answer them and he realized that nobody was replying to these people. And so he would try and help, but it wasn't really directly what his job was at this company.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  So he started, this is a while ago on the internet. He started like an internet forum where people who had this kind of yacht or boat, whatever it was, could log in and make an account. And then they could post their question and other people who had the same problem would say like, oh, here's how I fixed this and here's where I got this part. And he would answer questions in there. And his employer found out he was doing this and they fired him. So then what he did was he charged for forum access and spent all of his time helping those people. And it became the place to get help with your boat of that brand. Guess what the company did? They hired his consulting company back at a multiple of his former salary and that's what he does now.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Chef's kiss.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Chef's kiss, right? They were like, oh crap, we need a customer support portal. Oh, it turns out there's a guy that has thousands of our boat owners on it and he owns it. And oh, do we have a contact for him? Yeah, we fired him three months ago. Oops. He was making 40 grand a year, but he's willing to come back for a quarter million dollars a quarter. Yeah, it's like, all right.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  Incredible.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  So yeah, they could not afford not to hire this person. People were furious with the company for not responding. They literally couldn't afford not to bring him on board. Another example of this kind of thing, a candidate hooks them up with something valuable and goes, hey, if you want me to do this for you all the time, let's call it director of business development or something and you pay me X dollars for that. That, so that's another way to be more playful. I've hired many people who say, hey, let me try this thing for you. And I'm like, wow, I need that. How much does it cost for you to work for me? Another way to be more flexible is to stay open to different kinds of roles and opportunities, just totally different. You're, so you're not finding jobs through your network, fine. What about jobs in industries you haven't considered? In different fields where your knowledge and skills would directly translate? What about staying at your current company, but looking for consulting gigs with other

• 54:29Speaker 01

  organizations, which could either be a great side hustle or turn into a full-time position down the line, just like this kid with the yacht customer service forum?

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Totally. Great idea. Sometimes when we're not getting what we want, the answer isn't to look for that thing harder, it's to open up our definition of what that thing could be.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Yes. But in the meantime, keep focusing on these inputs, helping, supporting, asking, connecting, and trust that these inputs will always pay off eventually. Sometimes when we judge something solely by the results we want on the timeline we want, it's easy to doubt the whole enterprise, which would be a shame. It's very possible that your relationships are still developing, that your network is still growing and that you are still learning how to best support people, all of which is totally fine. I mean, you said it's been a year. That might sound like a long time, but that's not a very long time. But all you can do is keep putting in the work and keep getting better. You do that, I know your relationships will take good care of you. I hope that helps my friend and good luck. By the way, you can reach us [email protected]. Try to keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a lot easier.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Dead squirrels in the mailbox or your back doorstep, which isn't much better. Somebody you know has committed government fraud and you're debating whether to report them, or you're racked with guilt and grief about terminating a pregnancy unnecessarily and your church group has kicked you out after learning about it. Still worked up about that one from last week as well. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up [email protected]. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. All right, now we want you to rub elbows with the amazing sponsors that support this show. We'll be right back.

• 56:04Speaker 00

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• 56:36Speaker 05

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• 57:02Speaker 01

  If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do. Take a moment, support the sponsors. They're all searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com/deals. If there's anything wrong with it, email us, we'll dig up the code for you. There's a lot of broken ones in there. I finally had AI go through and test all the codes. We're doing that every month. It finds a ton of broken ones, but if you find one before that I would love to fix it for you, email us, [email protected]. We'll get that taken care of. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. Now for the rest of Feedback Friday.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  All right, time for the recommendation of the week. I am addicted. Till it fill up. My recommendation of the week is getting screened for sleep apnea. If you snore, even if you don't wake up at night, you or you think you don't, but you're tired in the morning. Basically, what I've learned recently is that tons of people have undiagnosed sleep apnea. And some of the solutions you can try are pretty simple. They're like mouth tape, which is cheap, mouth guards, which can be really affordable, stuff like that. But it can change your life. It can even extend your life. Sleep apnea is kind of a slow killer, which is terrifying. It leads to all kinds of other issues, brain issues, body issues. It's really not good. So it's worth a test. Insurance covered mine. The doctor was like, why do you think you need this?

• 58:22Speaker 01

  And I basically said, I took an at home sleep apnea test through some mail order telehealth clinic and they found this. And they were like, ugh, that doesn't look good. So then they had me come into the sleep lab and do it. And they're like, okay, it's so mild that there's nothing you can really do about it. Fine, but it's good to know. Turns out I have that sleep apnea and it's not because I was overweight or anything. And people think, oh, it's that's what happens when you're a hundred pounds overweight. No, you can have it because dental stuff, mouth stuff, the way you're built, the way you sleep. But look, if this gets worse for me, I gotta have a dental procedure. So it's just good to know. Now I can keep an eye on it, make sure it doesn't get worse. And if you do have it and it is serious, this is a very good thing to know and a very good thing to treat because this, it can literally kill you slowly.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  It's not good to let this go. So that's my wreck of the week. All right, what's next?

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I started listening to Feedback Friday a few years ago and now your whole podcast is in my heavy rotation. Sometimes I listen for the drama. Sometimes I listen so I can feel better about my life. But more and more, I'm noticing that your guys' approach to solving problems and the core ideas you talk about are showing up in my life in some very tangible ways. So thank you.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  That's awesome. I love to hear that.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  The other day I was listening to an old episode and I realized how far you guys have come. I was thinking about how much you probably learn doing the show and how much your thinking must change on certain topics, whether it's the institution of marriage or gut health or psychopathy or geopolitics. So I wanted to ask, what have you guys learned the most about by doing the show? On what topics and from what sources, if you can share? Signed, hoping to clock and take stock of the things you've grocked.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Good question. This is gonna be super hard to answer. I feel like I'm constantly learning new stuff every single week. I'm always adding new arrows to my quiver and learning about industries and problems and regions I knew nothing about. It's kind of the whole ethos of the show, really. So I think when it comes to Feedback Friday, the biggest thing I've learned is that we're all dealing with very different things externally. But internally, we're all dealing with very similar things, the same things, really. Whether it's feelings or conflicts or values or goals, they really seem to be universal. And I love finding that in your letters because it reminds me that we are all really going through the same stuff. And I guess it gives me some comfort because if we're all ultimately dealing with the same themes,

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  then the answers, if there are answers, those are also universal. And maybe a part of our job is to reduce the complexity of our unique situations down to the common well of feelings and experiences underneath them. Does that make sense? You know, cause

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  Which kind of gets at another thing I've learned, which is how to make sense of really big problems. How to break them down, how to separate the strands. You gotta know which pieces to tackle and when and how and when to take action and when to step back and just kind of allow things to play out.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  Yes. Surrender the parts you can't do anything about and fight like hell for the things you have to. Yeah, that's a big one for me as well.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  I also feel like I'm just constantly in awe of what our listeners go through and what they survive.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I mean, look at question one from today, right?

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, a literal nightmare from beginning to end. Our friend made it through. And so as cheesy as it sounds, I really do learn resilience from y'all. And I try to take some of that into my own life. Like if someone can deal with a tragedy and harassment and dead squirrels in their mailbox, I think I can handle

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  Doorstep.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Right, sorry, dead squirrels on the doorstep. Totally different.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  Squirrels in their trunk.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I can handle my kids tantrum over not being able to get new Pokemon cards that night or a difficult show sponsor busting my balls or who knows, maybe a real problem, something worse. Outside of Feedback Friday, I want to pick a funny one because yeah, like I learned about slavery on the open seas and I learned about human trafficking, but like, okay, just to go from highbrow to lowbrow with zero segue. When I did these Skeptical Sundays on penis size and penis enlargement.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  Oh, that was a good segue, yeah.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  I learned a ton from this episode. And what's really funny is actually, I don't think I shared this with you, Gabe. So we sent our kids to school and we were talking with all these parents. And I was in a conversation with a gay couple, two guys. He's this pretty flamboyant Chinese gay dude. And he's like, what's your podcast? And I told him and he subscribes right on his phone from the playground and the first episode is penis size. And he goes, ooh, and he listened to it. And the next day I saw him and he's like, that was so interesting. And I was like, oh, God, that's the first episode. He goes, well, I am a gay man and it was the most interesting one I've heard. I've heard more since then and that one tops the charts. It was so funny because I felt like, of course I tell a parent at my kid's school about my show and the first thing they see is that one.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  That's great. I'm so glad you didn't tell them about the show of the week you did slavery on the open seas.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, he would have been like, ugh, this is too heavy for me. Meanwhile, he's like, ooh, dicks.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Cool. Let's talk about that playdate. And I learned a ton from this online community of guys when I was doing that show. They do body modification stuff with their junk for like, and so like they pump it or they clamp it. These guys, at first I expected a bunch of just total freakazoids, right? These guys are as close as it gets to true experts in this stuff from their own experience. There's scientists in there who are doing research on it and using PubMed tissue remodeling studies and stuff. They explained a lot of this stuff to me. They took a lot of time. They connected me with companies and resources and stuff that just really helped with those episodes. And so Skeptical Sunday shows me these weird sides of humanity that I never knew existed.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  And I find knowledge in some very weird places, like this community of dudes who are obsessed with making their packages bigger, which I was like, who knew that even existed? For example, these dudes I connected with online were researching the episode. And look, it's, one of them's name is Chaz, the other guy is Chaz, the other guy's Bastin. So the first two, Chaz and Chaz, your dick coaches, they're actually super knowledgeable. I'm just naming a few of these guys. They know a shocking amount of complex stuff. Like I said, tissue remodeling. I of course was like, I gotta fact check this with real doctors in the space. And I brought it to urologists and they're like, wow, yeah, I've never seen this, but this all totally makes sense. Let me check this PubMed study. Yeah, okay, they're all checks. I was just shocked at how accurate some of these essentially dude bros on the internet were with this stuff.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  And they're, I'll shout out to their company called epicextender.com, which I think is hilarious branding as well. And I was also very surprised by how, and they, look, you think like, oh, fly by night. No, customer service, there's a community element. You'd think like they sell dick stuff on the internet. Good luck getting your money back. No, it's crazy how involved everyone is. And I guess, I guess making your penis a hobby quickly makes it a fan favorite. It's just been, again, super fun to get this inside look at a well-run company and an industry that is basically like point zero zero zero one of the world even knows this exists. So those are a few of the main ones, the ones that stick out, no pun intended. Gabe, how, how about you? Anything interesting you've learned recently?

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  And you can't say putting stuff in your penis because I already took that one.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, you took mine. I don't know what to say now.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  Sorry, bro, you're gonna have to make one up now.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  All right, thinking on my feet. I feel like I'm also constantly learning from Feedback Friday, constantly. Every single week is a masterclass in handling a new problem or understanding a new part of life that, you know, I probably haven't lived myself yet.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really is. This show is like a dojo for the human condition.

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  But like you just said, underneath all of the problems are these handful of common experiences and true wisdom. It's always simple, right? And it's always universal and it's always timeless. And I feel like most of the time it's more like remembering something that I've forgotten, you know, over and over again. Like, oh yeah, that's what we're actually all afraid of. Death, loss, having our egos bruised and not knowing what's gonna happen. Like our friend who can't leave this marriage because it's all he knows. Of course, that's what we're all dealing with. Or like another big one, life can turn on you in an instant. Of course you should be grateful for what you have, right? Of course you should be happy when your life works well. And for when you don't have a psycho neighbor targeting you and leaving squirrels in your mailbox or whatever,

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  or when you still have your parents around or you're employed because none of us are in control and that's an illusion. And I just, it's like every week I forget. I have like the Men in Black device, like chit, chit. And then I'm like, oh yeah, no, we're good. I'm fine. I control everything. And then you read Feedback Friday and you're like, no, that's not how it works. I don't know about you, but I forget these things all the time because they're just so obvious and I take them for granted. I lose sight of them and Feedback Friday reminds me of that.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Dude, totally. I'm the same way. I don't want to think about that stuff. Plus I have a thousand other things demanding my attention on any given day. And it's just, it's hard to stay connected to that most basic form of gratitude.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  There are also a lot of practical things that I learned from your letters, like, I don't know how important it is to get a lawyer. For example, when you have a legal problem. My instinct would maybe be to try to handle a legal thing myself if possible, like call a lawyer friend, have them coach me or use Claude to draft up a contract or represent myself in small claims court. Because actually it kind of sounds fun and I would love to find out if I could actually do it. Or here's another one that comes up sometimes. Talk to the police alone if I ever had to, because you know, like what do I have to hide? But then we hear stories from people who did nothing wrong and somehow get in trouble because they didn't say, look, I'm happy to talk to you, but I want to call my lawyer first. That's something I learned on the show.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  That's a good one. It's a solid practical Do not talk to the police without a lawyer if you're involved in something. If you witness a car accident or whatever, that's different. But yeah, this is something respectful, law-abiding people often struggle to live by. But many police and of course, defense attorneys have told me this, not, you know, it's not, this is not some sort of niche podcast bro advice.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  I'm constantly amazed by how the system broadly speaking can fail us profoundly. And just how limited and dysfunctional it often is, whether it's a government agency or law enforcement, or the healthcare system, or like insurance companies after your home burns down.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a big one. Cause I think these letters, a lot of them raise my blood pressure the most. I've gotten more insurance just based on like, oh, these guys moved in and they stepped on a sprinkler and then it flooded my whole house. I'm like, oh my gosh, I need way more coverage than I have for stuff. We all think if something truly bad happens, truly these people will have my back, like the insurance company that I just bought a policy from. And for most people, something truly bad never happens. But for a lot of people, and it could be any of us, which is another thing I learned from Feedback Friday. The bad thing happens and then they go, holy crap, this agency or this expert or this resource is not actually going to help me. Now what?

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  Like the guy who was assaulted and robbed in Colombia from a few weeks ago? And suddenly he's like, oh, my banks actually don't care about me. What am I gonna do?

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  No, perfect example. Exactly. You don't know until you're in trouble. And until then, it's just this theory you have about how the world works that you're pretty sure about. Well, our world, anyway.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  These stories are very upsetting and they're very eye-opening. And so I feel like I'm always being reminded that we need to advocate for ourselves to make the most of these resources, or take it upon ourselves to take good care of ourselves along the way, so that we hopefully don't need these resources quite as much, or, and this is kind of the hardest lesson, how to make peace with the fact that sometimes really bad things happen. And there's nothing anybody can really do about it.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Oof. Yeah. And now we're back to those themes of coming to terms, surrender, grief, all that fun stuff.

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  Here's one more thing that's been on my mind lately. So one of the things I love about doing Feedback Friday is just being in these problems with you guys and imagining what we would do in your shoes. And we always try to come with answers, or at least questions that we hope would help. And obviously that's why you're writing in, right? Like you're hoping for some advice, so we better come with something good. But I find that there's often a temptation when doing a show like this to take the position of like the person who knows, or to present as a person who has the answers, you know? And sometimes I do, because I've been through something similar, but more often than not, I'm learning right alongside you and sort of imagining myself into your situation and asking myself, what would the best version of me do here? If I were facing the same issue?

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  So it can be hard to not succumb to the pitfall of presenting as if I have it all figured out, or somehow I know better, or even like I would never end up in the situation and here's why, kind of thing. One of the most helpful things that I've learned in therapy, and this has been extremely illuminating, is that my main defense as a person is superiority. And the way that that defense shows up for me is, well, it's like a few ways. One is intellectualizing, which is also its own defense, meaning moving from feeling and experience into thinking about it.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Okay. I feel like I do that a lot. Maybe it's a guy thing?

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  Maybe. Feel things with our hearts and our butts. No, thank you.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, no thanks. I'll pass.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  I'm gonna put it through Gabe GPT up here. Thank you very much.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  And we'll be fine.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Keep it in the old CPU, shall we? Much less embarrassing.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  It can also show up as contempt for certain things, like, I don't know, if like a book or a movie provokes me or intimidates me, I might like dismiss it or poke holes in it. Or if I meet someone who's being more vulnerable than I am, or messier than I would like to be, I might judge that person a little too quickly.

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  Huh. Interesting. So you think that's a defense? It's not just like a fair opinion?

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  I ask myself that question a lot, and the answer is almost always, yeah, there's at least part of that that is defensive. This comes up whenever I go to a retreat or like to a workshop, like these dance workshops that I do sometimes. I can be so quick to dismiss things as dumb, or silly, or somehow beneath me, you know? And sometimes it is. Like, you remember that truly annoying dance workshop I told you about maybe a year ago? Where I just like two days of this bullshit and I was like, I hate all of this. So there are those experiences, but usually it's not like that. I just resent that I'm not good at something, or I'm daunted by how much more willing everyone else is to give it a go. It's really funny. This actually just happened to me this last weekend. I went to this thing here in Berlin called the Conscious Dance Festival,

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  which is this like two, two and a half day dance event where all day they offer dance workshops and meditations and parties. And you can like, the DJs spin like really good music and they'll like walk you through the dances and give you like some exercises and cues. And day one of this thing, I was like, I hate this. I am so in my head. This teacher's kind of lame. These people are weird. And I went home that night, like in a not a, kind of in a similar mood to the, the really bad dance thing I did a year ago. And I slept on it. I slept eight hours for the first time in a while. I woke up feeling a little bit better. I went back and day two, I was like, oh no, this is great. I absolutely need to be here.

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  Like this is why I came, to confront this self-consciousness, to like open my mind and open my heart. And I had such a fondness for the other people there by the end of it. Like we were all weirdos, goofballs. Like we were all struggling with the exact same stuff. And just 12 hours before, I was like, yeah, I don't need this. This is mid. I'll probably just ditch tomorrow. It's just so absurd. Anyway, this defense shows up in so many ways, like fixating on my knowledge, my competence, making sure I know what I'm doing at all times, or like looking for an inside track of some kind. That's a really big one. Like information that other people don't have, or creating a different relationship with an experience. Like for example, observing a class as an outsider, instead of actually being a participant as a student.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  Huh. That's a good one. Yeah.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  Sometimes that approach is smart and resourceful, and sometimes it's a way out of something. That's what I find.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  So the mechanism is I feel uncertain. I feel confused. I feel ashamed about my ability.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Or my vulnerability.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna move into a position of being above this. I mean, we've all seen that, right?

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's basically it. And what I've learned is that that is a move away from helplessness and toward mastery. When the reality is that most of the time, I'm not above these things. I'm not above these people. I have so much to learn. The reason I bring this up is hosting an advice show is a really interesting experience for a person with this particular defense. Because by being in this role of advice giver, I find it is very easy to do all of these things that I just mentioned, and to slip into this superiority, which I really want to do as little as possible. And so one of the best things I've learned from this show, I think I am learning every single week, is to keep a close eye on that tendency as best I can, because it's just there to make me feel safer, which is dumb. And it doesn't serve you guys, because we're all in these problems together, right?

• 1:14:38Speaker 02

  Like 80% of the stuff on the show could happen to me, or has happened to me in some way. So that's been a really great lesson to me, to not rise above anything we talk about. I do not always succeed. And by the way, for all the times that I might've slipped into this tendency, I am sorry. This is something that I just forget, or I don't even notice it's happening because it happens so quickly. And then I remember over and over again, don't do that. You don't need to do that. There's a better experience if you're actually here and you're not defending against it. But you know, whatever. These things are a practice. And Feedback Friday is really good practice for me.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  Super interesting, man. I feel you. It's not always easy. I gotta point out though, I went with, man, isn't it crazy what people do to their dicks? And you're over here giving a TED Talk on psychoanalysis. How class, it reminds me of the, we had a comment, I think on Spotify, or maybe it was in the subreddit. It was like Gabriel recommends Dostoevsky. Jordan, here's an app that tells your dog where it can take a shit.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  I vaguely remember that, but like, just for the rec, I've never, I've never plugged Dostoevsky in the rec of the week.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  Do you think all of that body modification stuff that you've looked into though, might also be a defense?

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of guys, what's funny about this, I thought we were done talking about that, but here we go. A lot of guys are like, yeah, if I do this and I get a bigger peen, then I can get girls. And all the guys in there are like, no, no, no, that's not gonna work. FYI. Don't be in here thinking you're gonna have this totally different relationship with the opposite sex. Like you need to work on yourself. It's really interesting, right? Cause you would think they're all in there like, huh huh, yeah, man. Big D, cool, bro. It's not like that. Like the guys in there, there's lawyers and doctors, and it seems like most of the guys in there are married and stuff. And then you get these young guys in there and they're like, yeah, this will fix me. This will fix my self-esteem. And you'll just have tons of older guys be like, no, that's not how you do that. You gotta get confident. You gotta work on yourself. You gotta, so I think, yeah, there's guys that start that way.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  And then they kind of come out like, oh, okay. I went in thinking I wanted one thing and I came out with a totally different thing. I mean, it's almost like a self-help sort of thing for men. I don't know. It just kind of, that's another thing that sort of struck me as like, wow, okay. You go to epicextender.com to get your like peen stretcher and you come out with like a new way of looking at the world. Such a weird, like totally unexpected bonus.

• 1:16:55Speaker 02

  I mean, they could just go to a dance festival, bro.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  They don't put that on the website.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  No, they don't. But I don't know. So my point is maybe we're talking about the exact same thing.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  Sheesh. That's a good point. So fun question. Thanks for asking it. For me, it really is amazing to do a show where I constantly get to indulge my curiosity and then bring it to you guys. So actually, the last thing I'll say, one of the best things I've learned by doing the show is trusting that if I find something interesting, if I find something important, other people will as well, that my own curiosity is a reliable proxy for other people's interest. And that's been extremely helpful. But maybe that's just another way of saying what we've been talking about this whole time, which is that we are all ultimately struggling with the same stuff. We're all ultimately interested in the same stuff, which you know, is pretty awesome. So go back and check out Tom Rath and Dr. Leslie John and our Skeptical Sunday on bail reform, if you haven't done so yet.

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  Show notes and transcripts are on the website, advertisers' deals, ways to support the show at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram, or you hit me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogerty, Ian Baird, Tadisidlouskas, and of course, Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And yeah, I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. So consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show, so you can live what you learn, and we'll see you next time.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  How could a war halfway around the world affect what you pay or what you can buy? Here's a preview with Peter Zion on what happens when the countries making our everyday essentials can't keep delivering.

• 1:18:38Speaker 06

  Since 1989, there's really only been one large military industrial complex in the world that's been American. And most of our allies buy our equipment. And what we're discovering now is a lot of these new technologies are really effective at destroying some of these types of equipment in certain environments. The technology is evolving so quickly. The rules of the game are changing, the goalposts are moving. And every state in the Persian Gulf, and every front and second line state in NATO against the Russians has already broken ground on mass manufacturing facilities to make Ukrainian drones at scale. So it's entirely possible that two years from now, every ally we have is not going to be buying meaningful military equipment from the United States,

• 1:19:24Speaker 06

  because it's just not applicable anymore and we won't deliver anymore. We are seeing deglobalization accelerating at the same time the United States is deindustrializing. If anything, we need to be sprinting in the opposite direction. We're no longer building ourselves out for what is coming. We're just kind of waiting for the world to happen to us now. To keep it going, you need the United States to maintain the military structure that allows global trade to happen. It never occurred to me that we could have an administration so out of touch with reality, that we would do this on purpose. This conflict is going to go down in history as the moment where the United States lost the ability to influence the Eastern Hemisphere.

• 1:20:06Speaker 01

  To hear how working with Canada and Mexico could help America weather the chaos, and what's standing in the way, check out episode 1370 of The Jordan Harbinger Show with Peter Zion.