1363: Allegations Untrue? Who's Next In the Queue? | Feedback Friday

Your niece accused her cousin of abuse, but her story doesn't add up. Now you fear your own sons could someday be falsely accused. It's Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger https://twitter.com/JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi https://twitter.com/GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Now let's dive in! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1363 https://jordanharbinger.com/1363 On This Week's Feedback Friday: You fell head over heels for your nieces and nephews years ago. Now one niece says one of your nephews — her cousin — touched her back when they were both kids, but to you, the pieces don't quite click. Your mother-in-law fast-tracked a report, and you're bracing for the day your own toddlers get accused. Are you wrong to doubt, and can the family knit itself back together? Your retired parents made a shiny new neighbor who buys your kids gifts, invites himself to dinner, then floats a wildlife outing eight miles deep into empty federal land. Mom's charmed. Dad's convinced he's a grifter — or the opening act of a kidnap-and-ransom plot. Is your gut reading the room correctly, or are you quietly writing a cartel thriller starring Roger from down the block? You're a closeted gay high-schooler in a town where that's a very big deal, and your parents snooped your phone, found your boyfriend, called you disgusting, and quoted scripture at you for hours. So you're pouring everything into a plan to launch a career in aerospace an entire ocean away. Is running that far a reasonable escape, or is something sneakier hiding within the question? Recommendation of the Week: Anker Prime 3-Port Charger https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F9NK4M7Q/?tag=jordanharbing-20 — the tidy little brick that retired the wad of five plugs Jordan used to haul around in his backpack. An HVAC crew stepped on a sprinkler and flooded your entire house, destroying 90% of your belongings. The company swore it'd cover everything, then ghosted you, and now you're awake at 4 a.m. racking up credit-card debt while your eight-year-old keeps asking when you can go home. Do you lawyer up and sue, torch them on social media, or grit your teeth and wait? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger https://twitter.com/JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger https://www.instagram.com/jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi https://twitter.com/GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi https://www.instagram.com/gabrielmizrahi/. And if you're still game to support us, please leave a review here https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/id1344999619?mt=2&ls=1 — even one sentence helps! Sign up for Six-Minute Networking https://jordanharbinger.com/course — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course https://jordanharbinger.com/course! Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee Bit Wiser https://www.jordanharbinger.com/news/ newsletter today and start filling your Wednesdays with wisdom! Do you even Reddit, bro? Join us at r/JordanHarbinger https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanHarbinger/! This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors https://www.jordanharbinger.com/deals/: CookUnity: 50% off first week: cookunity.com/jordan or code JORDAN https://www.cookunity.com/jordanJack Archer: 15% off first order: jackarcher.com, code GETJACK https://www.jackarcher.com/Paka: Paka hoodie & crew socks: go.pakaapparel.com/jordan https://go.pakaapparel.com/jordanCastbox: Find, organize, and subscribe to the world's best podcasts: castbox.fm https://castbox.fm/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the glass bowl, holding all of your car keys at this open-minded psycho-spiritual orgy, Gabriel Mizrahi.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  That is such a good one. I just saw the room you think Feedback Friday takes place in, and it had a sunken living room and an orange shag carpet.

• 0:23Speaker 00

  Hundred percent. Tons of macrame, a David Bowie poster above a communal jar full of lambskin condoms.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Honestly, sounds like a pretty good time.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  I would need to get a horseshoe mustache for some reason.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  You would rock the horseshoe, actually.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, you could pull listener letters out of your bell-bottom jeans.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. You're in a sequin jumpsuit for some reason.

• 0:41Speaker 00

  Right, no pockets.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Really starting to feel like a Family Guy cutaway, so we should move on.

• 0:48Speaker 00

  When we were looking at houses, Jen and I, we, our realtor was this, he was like this very gay bear, so like a, you know, like a tough, like, and his whole personality was being a gay bear.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  That was exactly how I pictured you in this cutaway fantasy, yeah.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  So, we were looking at houses, and we go to one of the homes, and he's like, "Hey, what do you think those are for?" And he points to the ceiling in one of these empty rooms that has like, nothing in it for some reason, and there's a heavy-duty set of bolts just hanging off the ceiling. And I was like, "Chandelier?" And he's like, "Yeah, if it was a chandelier, you'd want those hidden." He's like, "That's for a swing that can hold someone." And I was like, "You would know, you would know, Mark, because it was like, super-heavy-duty bolts on a steel beam." And he's like, "No, no, no, that's a multi-person swing setup right there." And we saw another house, and it had carpeting on the walls, like, thick, like, fuzzy carpeting on the walls. And he was like, "We need to

• 1:47Speaker 00

  get out of here. There's, I won't let you buy this house. Too much has happened in here. This place is haunted with stuff I don't want to discuss in front of your wife." It was just like, so tacky. He's like, "I, you know the kind of parties these people had, and you don't want people showing up thinking those are still happening while you live here."

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Why does he have all the weird listings in your neighborhood?

• 2:06Speaker 00

  I mean, he just, you know, maybe there's just a lot of weird listings in San Francisco in general, because these were all, when he was our realtor, we were looking at SF before we came down.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  I was in the city.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  But still, I don't know, you know, that's a referral business. That's a network business.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  That's true, but speaking of cutting away, on the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, arms dealers, four star generals, astronauts, and hostage negotiators. This week, we had Danny Bates, linguistic expert and author of Why Q Needs You. He took us on a journey through history, archaeology, politics, linguistics, to discover where we get our writing from, the alphabet, where we get letters from, how the alphabet mutated and evolved over time. It's peak nerd stuff, but I thought it was pretty interesting, and I think it's a nice

• 3:02Speaker 00

  companion to our recent episode on accents with Valerie Friedland, if you like that one. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites, and recast our weekly do's dive as some kind of weird suburban swinger party in 1973. I don't know what happened there, but I'm glad I got to share my house hunting journey with y'all.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Well, speaking of journeys home, welcome home, Papa.

• 3:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, thanks. Back from China, finally.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  How are you holding up? Are you still brutally jet lagged or are you okay?

• 3:31Speaker 00

  I would say we're past the jet lag and back in the swing of things, more or less. It took a while, though, because kids came back and instantly got sick, and then they didn't want to get up, they didn't want to go to bed at night, and they wanted to sleep all day. It's just, it was wild.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  You guys sick? Weird.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, all the time. My kids just get everything, because they go to camps and they go to daycare.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Petri dishes.

• 3:50Speaker 00

  You just can't shelter kids from germs. They're supposed to get sick. It's good for their immune system. The problem is then they stick their fingers in your mouth while you're laying down, and you're like, well, I'm getting whatever that was.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  It builds character.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  It does.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  For both of you. But overall, it sounds like it was a pretty amazing trip.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, we had a good time in China and Taiwan, the kids especially. I love watching them enjoy it. It's special. I got to say, they're traveling to another country for an extended period. You really do cross this invisible barrier of vacation versus I live in a new place temporarily.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  You know what I mean?

• 4:23Speaker 01

  This is one of my favorite topics.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  Oh, is it? Yeah, of course you do. So when you're on vacation for a week or two, like no gym, okay, no problem.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  You do some pushups a couple of times, you do so you do your yoga thing. Maybe I go for a longer walk on the beach or something, no big deal. Can't find food you like or with enough protein or whatever, no big deal. There's no wifi, the email doesn't work, okay, fine, I guess I'm taking a break from that. But when you live in a new place, right, it's week three, week four. All of that just becomes a virtually insurmountable inconvenience that is incredibly irritating.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a completely different experience. You're not really on vacation in the same way.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  No, you're just failing to adjust in a new place. You're going through that stretch where the novelty has worn off and you're in the rough adjustment phase. Like can't find protein powder, dang it, how do you not have protein in the entire province of Yunnan?

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Is that real? Oh, they must have it somewhere in China.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Of course, in China, yes, but you have to order it. I remember I had my wife's aunt order it off of Alibaba or Taobao or whatever it is that they order from. And the guy was in like Beijing or Shanghai and he's like, hey, this is a specialty product. It's going to take four days to get to. And I was thinking, wow, okay. And I realized I couldn't find a gym, right? Because all of the gyms were a treadmill and an exercise bike in the corner of an air conditioned closet, basically. Or something highly specialized like acro yoga or aerial yoga. And I was like, no, no, no, I just want weights. And they're like, yeah, this place has three kettlebells, all of which max out at 20 pounds or 16 pounds. You know, you can use those. And there's just like, no, I don't want to, no, I need a gym. And they just don't have it.

• 5:57Speaker 00

  They just don't have fitness culture, maybe outside of tier one cities. And Dali is a tier four, tier five city. Anyway, I came home and I gotta say, I'm so happy to be back at work. I did enjoy our time in China, but when I got back to my desk here at home, I was like, okay, man, I miss this. And, you know, I'm asking myself, am I just a workaholic or do I genuinely love what I do? And it's a little bit of both, for sure.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  I'll go with both, yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  But I think the bigger part of it is just that I really love doing the show and this is kind of. What I live for. I feel very lucky. I know that's not the case for a lot of people. I remember being miserable in my career before for so many years. Even in the early days of podcasting, it was tough. You know, you're, I remember wishing I worked at a post office or something because it was easier. So it's a nice realization that I actually enjoy what I do a lot now.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's beautiful. Lots to be grateful for.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  For sure. So yeah, glad we went to China. We'll probably go back again next year for the kids because they love the summer camp there and they have all these new, you know, new friends. And there's expat groups that we made friends in, but I am happy to be home thinking about other people's problems with a little pro shake by my side and wifi that actually freaking works. As always, fun ones and doozies. I can't wait to dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Dear Jordan and Gabe, my wife and I married eight years ago and have been together for 12. She has two sisters, Serena has six kids and Lorraine has one child. One of the big things that pushed me out of my fear of marriage was all of these nieces and nephews. I fell in love with them so fast and the thought of them leaving my life scared me almost as much as the thought of losing my wife. Lorraine's daughter, B.C., was definitely born into a rough spot. Her stepfather, who's been there since day one, is mostly a nice guy, but definitely has severe mental emotional problems. Over the last couple of months, B.C., who's now 13 years old, has called the suicide hotline repeatedly, to the point that they opened an investigation and she and her stepdad have been ordered to see a counselor,

• 7:50Speaker 01

  with stepdad needing anger management classes. She's also been diagnosed with depression and anxiety and put on medication.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  Oh, man, at age 13, poor kid. That's hard to hear.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Then recently, one of Serena's boys graduated high school, so we all traveled to a neighboring state to celebrate for three days. On day two, Lorraine's best friend called and told her that B.C.'s friend just called Lorraine and told her that B.C. is currently in a house with a cousin, let's call him F, who allegedly sexually assaulted B.C. five years ago, when she was eight and F was 10. The claim is that he touched her, forced her to touch him, and sniffed her underwear.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  Oh, gosh, well, that's, this is tough.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  I'm not trying to deny the claim, but it just doesn't sit well with me. F is a very kind-hearted, athletically talented boy with a burning desire to compete in the Olympics one day. I will admit that in the last 12 years, F has certainly become my shadow at family events, to the point that they call me Peter Pan because my shadow comes and goes, but always returns. But looking at this logically, trying to look past our bond, the pieces don't fit. B.C.'s story is not entirely consistent. She doesn't distance herself from F at all. She even begged her mom and aunt at the graduation to let her spend a week with them this summer break.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  Interesting. It's hard to know what to make of all that, but I suppose I take your point.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  With B.C.'s mental state lately, I'm not convinced that this is truthful. Who knows? It might be happening elsewhere in her life and she's crying out and blaming him. 10 years old seems awfully young to be smelling underwear.

• 9:29Speaker 00

  Well, unless they had it done to them also by an adult, or they saw that somewhere, they're exposed to adult material. I mean, it's not always the case, of course, but I mean, that's why that's a red flag, is because kids don't think of that stuff themselves. So yeah, awfully young to do something like that, but I'm not so sure that means it didn't happen. Sadly, this stuff happens at tragically young ages. But I understand what you're saying. It's the collection of these things that's giving you pause.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Then, this week, B.C.'s mother and my mother-in-law convinced B.C. to tell her counselor what happened. And the counselor filed a report. My mother-in-law agrees with this decision. She says that if the counselor didn't, she would have. As the parent to three of the youngest kids in the whole group, and given how quickly my mother-in-law convinced Lorraine to file a report, I'm now scared that in a few years, one of my toddlers might do something inappropriate to one of the younger cousins with innocent intentions. And five years later, my mother-in-law will be as quick to take her side and then I'll be stuck fighting a legal battle to defend my innocent son.

• 10:29Speaker 00

  Yikes. Yeah, that's a heavy fear to carry around.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Needless to say, there is a massive rift in the family now. And I've even told my wife, I don't want my boys to ever be alone with any of their cousins. For the record, we've talked to our six-year-old and explained what inappropriate touching is.

• 10:45Speaker 00

  Great, I mean, that would be my first priority, although I will say, kids can know all about this and still do it because they think it's funny. Jaden goes to school and there's a kid that he's really good friends with and the kid, Jaden was going to the bathroom and the kid kept poking his head under the stall and being like, hello, hello. And Jaden was like, hey, I don't like that. And he kept doing it because they're young boys who don't care, you know, they're pushing each other's buttons. And Jaden mentioned something to the teacher and it became this thing like, oh, this is wildly inappropriate. And I was like, oh gosh, who did that? And they were, he was like, oh, what if so and so? And I was like, oh, this super silly kid that Jaden's like Jaden's best friend. I'm not convinced this was a massive issue. I think we should just like, tell them to knock it off and move on.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  You know what I mean? Yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  I mean, there's like such a huge spectrum of behavior.

• 11:31Speaker 00

  Poking your head under the stall is different than sniffing a young girl's underwear and forcing her to touch you. That's, it's, it's not the same thing.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  But also with children, it's complicated. Like, how much do they need to?

• 11:42Speaker 00

  They just don't get it and it takes a few tries until they do, really. I mean, that's, it does. There was a girl who used to follow me into the bathroom in kindergarten all the time and look over my shoulder when I was peeing. And she only stopped when I told the teacher. And it was like the third time. And the teacher was like, oh God, I'm so sorry. And it was like, whatever, you know, that she just wanted it. She was curious. I get it. I mean, we're kindergarten, but yeah, they don't understand the severity of this. So, I'm not trying to excuse the behavior, but it's just, it's very on brand for little kids to do this stuff.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Am I wrong for saying all this? Am I wrong for doubting the accusation? Can I trust my mother-in-law? And can this larger family rift be fixed? Signed, a father starting to sigh and feeling afraid that a son will be made into the bad guy. If these accusations ever start to fly.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  Man, this is an intense letter, super complicated. So, first of all, I'm very sorry that your niece is struggling in all these ways. That she might have experienced this abuse. This poor girl has had a rough go of it, man, in so many ways. And my heart really goes out to her. I'm sorry for the rift this has created in your family. And I'm sorry for the difficult position it's putting you in right now. I have to say, I'm also sorry for your other nephew F. If he did this, I'm sorry he felt. compelled to act on it, this impulse at such a young age. It does make me wonder what led him to do it. If he didn't do this, well, then I'm sorry, he's being accused of something he didn't do. So a few words about B C. On one hand, I can understand why you're hesitating to fully believe her story. There are plenty of facts here that complicate the picture.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  Her childhood, her mental health, her behavior, if I were in your shoes, all of that would give me, probably give me pause too. On the other hand, being kind, being athletically talented and having big dreams. I'm sorry to say, those don't mean somebody is not capable of something like this. And B C not distancing herself from F, well, this also happens all the time. Children, adolescents, even adults too, we hear it all the time. They often maintain contact with people who have harmed them. They might minimize what happened, they might compartmentalize it, they might still care about that person. B C might have begged her mom and aunt to let her spend a week with F and the cousins this summer. Because she wants to be with the other cousins, because she wants her family life to feel normal. When everything else feels like chaos, we just don't know.

• 13:59Speaker 00

  Also, I hear you, B C's story hasn't been consistent. That is curious, but inconsistencies in recall are not unusual with victims of abuse. That's just how memory works sometimes, and I feel like, yeah, it doesn't, none of that really says, oh, not, this is a bunch of BS to me.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Especially because this happened, what, five years ago when she was eight years old?

• 14:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's not proof the allegation is true, but it isn't evidence that it's false either. Memory around trauma is complicated, man, and it's often incomplete, it's often fragmented.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  Plus, you and F are, like you said, especially close, which is super sweet. And I know you're trying to look past your bond and look at this objectively, but I'm sure that that's playing a big role here as well.

• 14:37Speaker 00

  It's gotta be, look, he's rooting for the kid, he likes him, I'm sure that makes it hard to believe he did this. So to bottom line this, you're not wrong to wonder if the allegation is not true. It's also very possible that it is true.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  And I think a lot of people listening would be like, listen to the kid, listen to the girl, she's saying this happened. Why are you doubting her? And I understand that perspective. But with limited information, it puts everybody, the whole family, in a really difficult position.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, it puts the family in a really difficult position. They can't in good conscience ignore a young girl's claim that somebody in the family abused her. They also can't in good conscience automatically punish a young boy who might not have actually done anything five years ago. Or if he did do this, again, five years ago, he did it when he was a child who was probably either confused or perhaps even influenced or even abused himself. So that's more that the whole thing is concerning to me for those reasons as well.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Jordan, we've talked in the past about how hard it is to live with competing narratives like this. It's very confusing. It's a very stressful thing to deal with and I'm confused myself hearing this story. Like I'm going back and forth. On the one hand, when a girl says this happened to me, it's hard to imagine that she would just make that up. We also live in a world where people do make things up or they get confused or they misremember certain things or they don't remember that something happened and then later they look back and they say, actually that did happen. And I didn't realize it meant that that, you know what I mean? It's confusing. So we, you and I, based on this letter, are not really in a position to say that this definitely happened or this definitely didn't happen.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  But there is a little bit of a mixed picture here and I guess it comes down to the fact that B C might, and I say might, like huge underline, be a bit of an unreliable narrator, but not necessarily in a way that's her fault. Part of it is her age, part of it is her trauma, part of it is her current state. She is troubled in all these other ways and that's part of what's giving our friend pause. So I guess in a world where nobody can know with a hundred percent certainty what happened other than choosing to believe what she said, full stop. It's gotta be pretty unsatisfying to agree to just sit with the ambiguity of this. But in a way, based on the information we all have, it seems like maybe the most intellectually honest one right now? I don't know. This is tricky.

• 16:51Speaker 00

  Well, that's why I have mixed feelings about B C's mother and her mother, you know, like, look, if I were in their shoes, I might've had the same instinct, protect my child, protect my grandchild, tell the therapist what happened. And the therapist is a mandated reporter. So of course they're going to notify the authorities, whether the allegations are true or false. I don't know if Lorraine and her mom knew that, but that's how this works. It must be so hard for a parent, for a grandparent, to hear a story like this and go, "Okay, well, we don't have all the information here. Could be true, could be false. So let's be fair and just sit with this and find a middle ground." No, they're gonna wanna do something about it. You would hope they'd do something about it.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I understand their predicament, but I also wonder if there are things that they could have done maybe before notifying the therapist? Look, we don't know what steps they took, right? But they could have talked to F and tried to understand what his memory of all of this was, if there is a memory. Maybe tried to reconcile the two stories to the best of their ability. I don't know if that's possible, but it would have been nice to try. They could have reached out to BC's therapist. I mean, she's a minor, so I believe that grants her parents some degree of involvement in her treatment, even if her sessions are confidential. And maybe they could have said, "Listen, BC is claiming that this thing happened. We don't know what happened, but we want you to have all the information and hopefully help us confirm her story as much as possible before we decide whether to report." Although, I guess even in

• 18:10Speaker 01

  that situation, the therapist might still be obligated to report, so maybe that doesn't solve that. But, you know, they could have also acknowledged that they don't have slam dunk proof that this happened, but they care about their daughter. And in a world where it might have or probably did happen, you know, we're gonna take precautions to keep BC and F apart, just in case. For example, I'm a little confused, and I wish we had more clarity about this, about why Lorraine allowed BC to go to a house with F while they were away. That's a little unclear. I can't tell if the allegations came to light for the first time when Lorraine's best friend called her that day, or if they already knew.

• 18:43Speaker 00

  Right.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  But that just seems like a curious decision to me.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, they kinda went zero to notify CPS via the therapist pretty quick there, didn't they?

• 18:51Speaker 01

  To your point, I'm sure they had good reasons. They're probably freaked out. They wanna protect BC. A therapist is their best ally, and I agree with that. And yet, is this also maybe a point in our friend here's favor? Did they jump the gun? Did they place BC's narrative above F's narrative unfairly? I mean, I can already hear people going, "What are you talking about?" Like, BC's narrative is the one that should be prioritized because she's the one who said this happened, you know?

• 19:15Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  But these, these are not completely unreasonable questions.

• 19:20Speaker 00

  I don't see how they could have made a responsible decision either way. Notifier to not notify without more information. It's also an interesting question. Can he trust his mother-in-law? I mean, in a way, she's doing what any reasonable grandmother would do, which is trying to protect her granddaughter. That is a trustworthy thing to do. In another way, she might be acting from a place of anger and panic and not seeking out all the information, which might be, it might be a little reckless, but if something like this ever happened with one of his kids and he needed to open a dialogue with this woman and make sure everyone in the family was being fair and thoughtful about how they handled it. Maybe she wouldn't give him and his kid a fair shake. And so maybe he cannot actually trust her to do the right thing. In a situation like this, but it's tricky, man. It's kind of like, well, what would you do? You know?

• 20:01Speaker 01

  It's also worth acknowledging that the therapist can make this report and is legally required to, based on my understanding. It's kind of out of our hands, but the agency that investigates might find that this didn't happen or that there just isn't enough evidence that it happened to intervene.

• 20:16Speaker 00

  Right, that's true. And it doesn't mean F's life is going to be ruined for sure. And if it didn't happen, then there almost certainly won't be enough evidence anyway.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  My understanding is that at this age, any response from, say, CPS is going to be protective rather than punitive.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would hope so.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  They'll ask questions like, has this child been abused themselves? Are there developmental issues at play? Mental health issues at play? Is this kid being exposed to violence, pornography, other harmful experiences? Ultimately, I think they're going to ask what interventions are needed to keep everybody safe. That's probably not going to be a pleasant process, but I can't imagine that it will result in F's life being ruined and he'll, he won't become an Olympic skier or whatever, especially if he did not do this.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  Good point, but that still doesn't make it okay that they notified the authorities if he really didn't do this. But I also understand why they did, I guess.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  I just want our friend here to remember that his worst case scenario, both with F and theoretically with his own child one day, might not ever come to pass. Also pushing past the question of who's right and who's wrong about this. It's very possible that both of these children need some kind of help. If something inappropriate did happen between F and B C, that raises questions about B C's well-being and about, to your point, Jordan, where F may have learned this behavior. If something inappropriate didn't happen. Then B C is accusing her cousin of something awful that he didn't do, which is part of her larger struggle. And F might deal with the repercussions of that for a long time. Suspicion from family members, tension, shame. You know, his reputation in the family might take a hit. Who knows?

• 21:49Speaker 01

  So both of them would benefit from safe adults to talk to, parents and family members and therapists as well as, you know, the chance to grow up a little bit more and show everybody what kind of people they are as adults. So maybe that's the better lens on a situation like this, not who's to blame here, but what do these children really need?

• 22:06Speaker 00

  That is a good point. My feeling is at this age, even in the worst case scenario, these kids probably deserve compassion and support more than judgment and punishment. That said, I can appreciate why all of this makes you a little worried about your own children in this family. In a world where F didn't do this, then yeah, B C is a risky person to be related to. And Lorraine and your mother in law could create some truly unfortunate consequences. And that might not be entirely their fault, but that might be the reality. Like I said, I do think the best thing you can do is educate your children about what's okay and what's not okay. And I think that that's good parenting, whether you're related to people like B C or not. And if B C continues to make claims like this and you sense she's just not a safe cousin to be around at all, then yeah, maybe not leaving your children alone with her is actually the right move.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  About this larger family rift, I would hope for all of your sakes that you guys can find a way to talk through this, come back together somehow. I'm not sure that you alone can make that happen. These are your in laws, right? Unfortunately, allegations like this often divide families for years, sometimes forever. We've heard about that on the show because everybody feels pressured to pick a side and stick with that side. It can be really hard for a lot of people who want to do the right thing to then say, well, actually, we don't know what really happened here. I guess my approach would be continue to be kind and respectful and collaborative with your wife's family, even if you disagree about how they handled this. If you guys talk about this and it gets heated, you know, validate their feelings. They're angry, they're afraid, they're sad. Whether this actually turns out to be true or not, those feelings do make sense.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  They're understandable, even if you guys never prove or disprove B C's story. And I would keep making room for their perspective while. You advocate for yours, if you have to advocate with them at all, maybe you don't. And, you know, try to gently remind everybody that you're all operating on limited information here about a highly charged topic. And you want everyone to proceed as fairly as possible, as thoughtfully as possible, and you'd like to help resolve this rift however you can. And like, how can I help do that?

• 24:02Speaker 00

  Which I guess means continuing to gather as much information as possible and protect and do right by the right people here. Maybe that means accepting you'll never know the truth. Maybe it means revising your position in light of new facts. Maybe it means supporting the decision to keep B C and F apart, although that's really also not really up to you. I think protecting children in a case like this means supporting the appropriate investigations, putting some basic safety boundaries in place, avoiding gossip, and refusing to vilify either child prematurely. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else you can do, especially since this isn't your nuclear family. Again, I'm very sorry you and your family are going through this. Whether or not this abuse took place, it's a heartbreaking development and B C is clearly in a lot of pain.

• 24:44Speaker 00

  But I would encourage you to focus on the pieces that you can control. How you educate and monitor your children, especially around their cousins. How you talk to your wife's family and encourage them to get B C and F the support that they need. How you continue to foster a relationship with F that helps him become the best possible man. Everything else is sadly out of your hands. We're sending you and your family good thoughts and good luck. And now I'm mandated to order you to investigate the deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

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• 26:46Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. All of the deals and discounts are searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com/deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now, back to Feedback Friday. All right, next up.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Hey, Jordan and Gabe. My parents retired to a border town some time back. We typically feel pretty safe on the US side and visit regularly, but we refuse to take our kids across the border as there have been well-publicized instances of tourists being taken and, in some cases, killed.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  Ew, gnarly.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  So they live in like Arizona?

• 27:22Speaker 00

  I guess, yeah, yeah.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Texas?

• 27:24Speaker 00

  Because you hear of people going to Tijuana and it's like, oh, I got mugged. You don't hear of people going missing and getting killed. Then again, I don't read all the news from there, so maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't know.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Recently, my parents made a new acquaintance who moved into their neighborhood shortly after meeting them. He's single and made quick friends with several older widows. Mom likes him, dad thinks this guy's a grifter.

• 27:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? Dad's clocking the guy right away, love it.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Due to work schedules, we recently visited my parents without my husband. This neighbor met us and proceeded to buy my children And gifts invite himself to family dinner. Then invite me and my children on an outing to open land to view wildlife.

• 28:04Speaker 00

  I mean, that's a little odd, man. You think?

• 28:06Speaker 01

  A little?

• 28:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's very odd. Buying kids you just met a bunch of gifts and inviting yourself over for dinner and then going to this family that's clearly not sold on you like, hey, you want to go bird watching eight miles into empty federal land? Yeah, no, that's sus, man. What are you talking about?

• 28:23Speaker 01

  My mom accepted the invitation, but my dad later told her she needed to cancel that we were not allowed to go. My father is recovering from a serious illness and needs a walker to get around, so he wouldn't be able to get in the raised pickup needed to make the trip. My mom would need to stay with him, so it would just be me and the kids. My dad doesn't trust this guy and believed this was part of a kidnap and ransom ploy.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  Weird. I mean, I suppose that is possible.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  I had some initial misgivings about going, but more about the safety of wooded areas. There's definitely trafficking of people and drugs in the area, and I was concerned about what we might stumble across. I don't consider my parents rich, but they are well off and could easily get their hands on a considerable amount for our return. I did some digging on the neighbor and he's had some bad business dealings, is currently self-employed and is living in a house owned by a family member. I had some other interactions with him that don't give me the impression that he's just a really nice guy. Does this kind of thing really happen to normal people in the States? Is there a way to suss out what this guy's intentions were? Signed, getting kind of clammy about this guy worming his way into my family,

• 29:31Speaker 01

  but hoping you can check my sanity, because all I can see is this ending in tragedy.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  This story is so bizarre.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  I wish she told us what those other interactions were.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  Yes, me too. Like, what other data points does she have about this guy? How reliable are they? Well, okay, let's take her word for it. Dude's weird. He's an unknown quantity and he's giving her and her dad a creepy vibe. And for me, that's just enough already to keep my distance. It's the whole Gavin DeBecker gift of fear thing. You got to listen to that primitive intelligence that fires when you come into contact with somebody who gives you that feeling. It doesn't mean it's right 100% of the time, but it's just not. Worth putting yourself in a situation where you could be in danger or you put your children in danger. When every cell of your body is screaming, hey, something's not right here. Also, it's not like this is your cousin's husband or something like or a family friend you've known for your whole life. This is a neighbor. The consequences of being wrong about this guy being a creep and ignoring him are zero.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Not even a neighbor, right? He just moved into their neighborhood.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  It's your parents' neighbor. If you ignore him and it's all unfair and wow, wow, like who cares? Get over it, pal.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, who cares if Roger, the oily interloper down the block is a little ticked off because they didn't invite him over for meatloaf?

• 30:41Speaker 00

  Exactly. It doesn't even make my top 10 list of things I give a shit about as a parent like, oh, the my parents, grandma, grandpa's neighbor is upset that we didn't go bird watching with him. Oh, well. Now, look, maybe this guy is just really eager to make friends in his new town. Maybe he's just super lonely. Maybe he's not great with people, doesn't read social cues well. Maybe buying people gifts and inviting them to look at wildlife is how he thinks he'd be friends with people. I mean, all of this could be totally innocent and weird, but innocent, completely possible. It's also possible that he's some kind of trafficker. Or maybe he's a guy who lures wealthy Americans to the border where they get taken. Or maybe, and I hate to put this in your head, but we got to acknowledge the possibilities.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Maybe he's like low key trying to groom your children. I don't know. Doesn't even matter, really.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  If Roger has an angle here, I think it's way likelier that he's just a garden variety two-bit con man trying to worm his way into this family, especially because he seems to be focusing on all the widows in the area.

• 31:37Speaker 00

  I 100% agree, which would still make him dangerous, of course, just a different kind of dangerous. He doesn't have to be a full-on human trafficker with ties to the Sinaloa cartel to be a risk to your family. I think she's probably clocking the correct risk factors. But she's kind of going full Breaking Bad in her imagination of what's actually going to happen. So, yeah. Of course, these kinds of things happen to normal people in the States. People go missing all the time. People get kidnapped. People get trafficked. People get abused. It's a dark world. Actually, I have a story about this. I'll keep it super short. This is like friend of a friend. He went to Mexico and his housekeeper had said to her friends or something or family back home that he was going to be there with. His family and I don't know if she said they're rich or whatever, but they had found out that he was gonna be there.

• 32:22Speaker 00

  And these armed men broke into their Airbnb and held them hostage for four days.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Oh my god, that's awful.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't think the housekeeper was like, break in there and hold them at gunpoint. I think she probably thought like, oh, okay, they're gonna have a lot of expensive stuff and some cash. Maybe you just go take it while they're at the beach. But the person who's the informant doesn't get, you know, a say in how the criminal activity goes down. So stuff like that happens and they held him for ransom and like, you know, a lot of money. And he had to get that while he was there because his wife and kids were in the house being abused by cartel members. I mean, that was just terrifying.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Happens all the time. That's awful.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  Yes, it does happen. It's like, again, it's a dark world, but actually it's probably even more likely that people get manipulated and conned and sign their money over voluntarily. And again, that seems far likelier here based on the details that you've shared. So we truly don't know what this guy is up to, but I don't know if you need to know what this guy is up to. It sounds like you know enough to stay away. There's no upside here. You don't like this guy. The potential downside is you guys maybe lose money. He sues you when he slips on the front steps, he creeps out your kids. He asks your parents if he can stay in their basement when his uncle kicks him out of the house. He's letting them stay in, or worse, you end up staying in his basement or someone else's basement in frickin Juarez. And you and your parents get ransomed and yada, yada, yada. No gracias to all of those options.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Honestly, bird watching with a stranger all day sounds like enough of a punishment for me. Like even if they don't get traffic, I'm out, I'm out. I don't want any part of it.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  There's no amount of cool lizards you can show me that's gonna make that day in the sun worthwhile. Hard pass.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  But dude, oh man, now I'm annoyed and I'm curious, like what is the? Also, I just remembered, he met them, right? He met the parents and then he moved into their neighborhood. Like that's weird too.

• 34:14Speaker 00

  How weird is that?

• 34:15Speaker 01

  He didn't meet them like out for a stroll. No, he wasn't meeting them while walking the dog after he moved. He's like, I'm new here. No, he like met them and then he moved into the neighborhood. I don't know. I'm just, now I'm very curious. What is this? Guy up to.

• 34:27Speaker 00

  That is weird. I am getting criminal blue balls over here.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Also, what is his backstory about the bad business dealings, being self-employed, living in a house owned by a family member? The only obvious conclusion I can draw from all that is that this guy probably has money problems.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, which does support the he's probably trying to con you and a bunch of widows theory, especially because old widows, they don't make great kidnap victims.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Please tell me how you know that.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  Okay. Well, as you know, I've had many jobs, Gabe. You gotta survive.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  You were kidnapped in Serbia and Mexico. So I got you learn from the best, clearly.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  That's right. No, the real reason I know this actually is a friend of mine who I worked with when I was at the embassy in Panama, like 26 years ago. He became obsessed with South America and lived there for a while. And he went to Colombia and he got kidnapped in Colombia, which, by the way, I feel compelled to say extremely rare that this happens. It used to be common when the FARC was doing its thing in the eighties and nineties or whatever. But in the early aughts, I think when this happened or mid aughts when this happened, this was not a thing that happened most of the time. And I talked to him at length about it. And I was like, hey, man, you're like 250, 64, 63. Why kidnap a 20 something year old, six foot three guy who works out?

• 35:39Speaker 00

  That seems like a very weird choice because you're probably as big as two of the kidnappers put together. And he told me the reason is they actually want someone who can spend, you know, three to six months in a basement and not die. And has older family members who are willing to pay for their return. You don't want a 76 year old woman who's not going to make it three weeks without her Lipitor and 18 issues of Reader's Digest from 2006 laying around.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Oh, sorry. I know you were trying to make a serious part, but that killed me at the end. Yeah, no, you're right. That's a really good point. Also kidnapping, ransom, human trafficking. That's not a game you just randomly get into later in life, is it? Like, are we supposed to believe that this guy was setting up these adventures that went sideways? I don't know, running a small drop shipping business from his house, moving around the country while also casually helping arrange kidnappings for various cartels on the side? That just seems unlikely to me.

• 36:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, I tried to run a couple of falafel trucks. Well, that didn't work out. So now I befriend neighborhood families, take them bird watching and traffic them to the cartel over the US Mexico border. And that's been working out okay so far. I had a couple of bites.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  My TurboTax is a little complicated, but yeah, I'm paying the bills. No, that is a slow, bad con. It's also still possible that we're dealing with a weird, lonely man who's desperate for family and a home-cooked meal, and he's just incredibly clumsy in the way he's going about it.

• 37:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you know what? That's not your problem. So I say, keep your distance. I'm with your dad on this one. Even if he's not a grifter, there's something grifter-y about the way he's going about befriending you and your kids and the widows. There's just something forced and transactional about it. And that's weird enough for me to say, no, thank you.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Maybe the better question is, how do you distance yourself from this guy without hurting him or pissing him off?

• 37:22Speaker 00

  Well, okay, yeah, I'm a little worried about that. It doesn't seem like a guy who can read the room, or if he can, he doesn't care very much about what he's reading. My strategy would be, slow ghost, man. Gradually cease communication completely. Hope the guy gives up and moves on. And if he doesn't, if he ever gets more aggressive, which I hope he doesn't, then you can think about contacting the police and looking into an order of protection and all that. But let's not worry about that until we have to. But you know, now that I think about it also, if this guy really is a grifter, he's not gonna wanna piss off one family in a small neighborhood, because word travels fast.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Good point.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  So if you shut him down, my guess is he'll just let it go and move on to an easier target. You know, he might say like, oh, I'm hanging out with Ethelmore because that family doesn't want anything to do with me. People who shut down con artists, one thing I've learned from doing episodes with former con men or people who specialize in con men, I think Jonathan Walton in his episode said something like this. When somebody is on to the grifter, or doesn't want anything to do with them, or doesn't get along with them, or just cuts the plan off at the knees, what happens is the grifter isolates that person and says something like, oh, yeah, no, they're angry at me, or we don't get along well, or I'm allergic to their cat, so I don't go over there. They don't wanna go like, oh, they're mad at me. Let's, well, I wanna know why. They figure out a way to sort of isolate that family from them, because they don't

• 38:43Speaker 00

  want people comparing notes. That's their biggest fear. So I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think he's probably just gonna move on. Kudos to you for doing a background check, though, and listening to your gut. That's always the right move. Stay safe and good luck. By the way, y'all can reach us Friday at JordanHarbinger.com. Keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a lot easier. If you're spinning your wheels trying to rise up at work despite your best efforts, or you're struggling to reinvent your identity after a divorce, or you recently discovered that photos of you at a naked bike ride were posted on the internet 10 years later. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up, [email protected]. We're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Now, we're gonna traffic in some shameless consumerism. Grab your bird watching binoculars

• 39:28Speaker 00

  cuz these deals are out of sight. We'll be right back.

• 39:35Speaker 00

  By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out the newsletter We Bit Wiser. It is a bite sized gem from a past episode, highly practical. I invite you to come check it out. You can sign up at jordanharbinger.com/news. All right, next up.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a rising high school senior in a very conservative town, and I am gay and closeted. I've come out to most of my friends and they all support me and are happy for me. I even managed to get a boyfriend in this town.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  Wow, it's a big deal in a town like this, man. Glad you're surrounded by solid people. Good for you.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  My boyfriend is amazing. He's sharp as a tack, super supportive, a great communicator, and very cute. Everything I want. The relationship was very healthy. He let me cry on his shoulder about being closeted. We worked through an issue about sex. He wanted to take it slower than me, so he communicated that to me instead of tiptoeing around the issue. I love him for more than his body, so we took it slower, which was a good choice. While I'm out to my friends, I'm closeted with my parents. Then, recently, I tried to take my boyfriend out to a movie, but before I could, my parents searched my phone because they were suspicious about me going to a movie and found out that I was dating him.

• 40:47Speaker 00

  So weird. So they were like, "Oh, you wanna go see Toy Story 5? What else are you hiding? Holy smokes!" Got more than you were bargaining for with those Snapchats, didn't you, Frank and Glenda? That'll teach you to snooze in the kid's phone.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Everybody knows enjoying popcorn makes you gay, so.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  I don't like them putting chemicals in the water. They turn the friggin frogs gay!

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  They questioned me for hours about what I had done with him. They called me disgusting after I confessed to making out with him in my truck. They also quoted Bible verses at me about the sin of homosexuality.

• 41:23Speaker 00

  Oh, man, all jokes aside, that is awful. I am so sorry, friend. That's just gotta, if you can even call it a difficult conversation, it just must have been horrible. I hope you know that, by the way, those are their ideas and not a reflection of you whatsoever.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  I left the whole experience scarred. I won't ever forget that my own mother called me disgusting.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, oh, man, that's heartbreaking. I hate hearing stuff like this. I could never treat my son this way. I could never do it.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  He goes on, "I'm religious and believe that homosexuality is not a sin."

• 41:57Speaker 00

  Well, preach.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  "But I had to break up with my boyfriend."

• 42:01Speaker 00

  Oh, no, that's a shame.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  "I came to him and told him that I had been outed and that if he wanted to continue the relationship, there would be less communication and little to no physicality. I let him decide if he wanted to break up. He wanted to break up, and I told him that I respect his decision. I still have my supportive friends, and for that, I'm appreciative."

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Man, that's a blessing for sure, but this sucks. That really sucks, man. That hurts.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  "After we broke up, I decided the only thing that would make me happy is getting as far away from my parents as possible. My pathway to that is academics. My plan is to go to college for aerospace and eventually work in aerospace in France, very far away."

• 42:41Speaker 00

  Hell, yeah, man. Now that the cat's out of the bag, I say, go for it. Go full rockets into loose gay. Why hold back now?

• 42:48Speaker 01

  Rockets into loose gay. Why does that paint a picture? I don't even know what picture, but I have it in my mind. Uh, he goes on, "France would also give my future kids access to better healthcare, better education, and two passports. So I've been pouring all my energy into school, college classes over the summer, building a portfolio, and two jobs."

• 43:08Speaker 00

  Wow, what a vision this guy has at age 17. That's, that's pretty impressive.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Seriously, I'm gonna major in astrophysics and work for Airbus and have three ador- Children one day who wear berets and get free dental.

• 43:21Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, there's no dental care in Europe. But yeah, I'm pretty sure actual French people don't wear berets. But I'm having a similar mental picture.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  My point is, he's very ambitious. Yes.

• 43:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. I love this about him. Most 17 year olds can't even decide which park to go smoke weed in tomorrow. He's way ahead of the game.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Pouring everything into a project is a habit of mine. Athletics, the startup I worked on, and now this.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  Dude, imagine having a son who is this smart, this ambitious, this disciplined, and you're gonna push him out of your life because you can't accept that he's gay. It's just such an unfortunate way to go.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is, but that just speaks to the fact that they believe in what they believe so strong. Like, I'm sure they love him and they think that they're helping him, which is heartbreaking also. But yeah, I take your point completely. Could I sustain a relationship while pouring all of my energy into getting out of Dodge? Should I try to have a relationship while closeted in an unsupportive household? Is trying to get far away a reasonable response? What kind of support do I need while I'm still under my parents' roof? And what am I allowed to want? Signed, even though I'm queer, I still got a straight shot out of here.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  Huh, that one's shorter than usual, but I like it.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  That was his sign off. I liked it, so I kept it.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, that makes sense. I love this guy's attitude. So, wow, okay, big questions. First of all, as you can tell, I'm very sad that your parents reacted to your orientation this way. I mean, it's not like you even told them. They snooped and found out and then reacted this way. It's just the worst possible way for this to happen. It's a very painful thing to be condemned and shamed and lectured for just being who you are. Obviously, something so many young gay people go through. Again, it's heartbreaking. I'm sure you know that their reaction is only a reflection of their own fears and beliefs, not of you as a human being. But I also know that it probably doesn't make it hurt much less coming from your parents. This is really painful stuff. It's terrible no matter what, even if you don't, you know, blame them.

• 45:22Speaker 00

  I feel like I'm getting a little emotional here because it's so sad. Again, I could never treat my kids this way. Really hard. It's hard to talk to somebody with a completely different worldview, a different understanding of human nature, who doesn't want to stop and go, "Okay, what I'm confronting here doesn't fit with what I believe, what I think should be true, but this is my child, so let me at least try to make room for both for just a little while." Some people can do that, and a lot of people can't do that. And I really hope there's a path forward for you guys. I hope they come around one day, or that you find, at least find a way to have some kind of functional relationship with your parents. But it's possible that they might not ever come around to having a gay son. And if they don't,

• 46:05Speaker 00

  then your process, which is the process of so many people who are born different from their families, is to bear that sadness and that grief, and to know that it does not have to stop you from building a life and an identity that is truly your own.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I completely agree. That's your birthright, man. I mean, that's all of our birthright, you know?

• 46:23Speaker 00

  To be ourselves, right? Totally. It's the work of a lifetime. He's already on to it at 17 years old, which I think is incredible. So to answer your philosophical question first, yes, of course, you're allowed to want whatever you want, as long as you're not seriously harming anyone else. It's as simple as that. You're allowed to want to date whoever you want. You're allowed to study whatever you want. You're allowed to live wherever you want. You're allowed to believe whatever you want. Now, there are better and worse people to date, of course. There are more helpful and less helpful degrees and jobs. Gabe, it reminds me of the guy whose parents didn't want him to study astronomy and biology because of their religious beliefs, so they made him study French. So, yeah. There are homes that will support your growth and your goals in different ways. Your beliefs can and should evolve over your life,

• 47:08Speaker 00

  but all of these things, they're up to you to choose, and the guiding principle is just, "Am I evolving in positive ways according to the values that I find meaningful? And am I doing so in a way that doesn't seriously harm other people or myself?" It's as simple as that. Not always easy, especially when you come from a background like this, but it's simple. Now, about trying to get as far away as possible, we can't tell you for sure if that's a reasonable response. I can't tell if you're asking Because moving to France feels like an overcorrection in some way. I mean, your parents hurt you. You don't feel at home in your hometown. I understand that. So you want to get as far away as possible, both to individuate

• 47:50Speaker 00

  and maybe also to protect yourself. And that's sort of what France represents for you. Or you're asking this question for the same reason you asked the last one, because it might be scary for you, especially at 17, to say, this is my dream to live in another country and to have this ambitious career. I guess my question for you is, what does reasonable actually mean? Does it mean realistic and achievable? Does it mean actually necessary to achieve the goals I want to achieve? Does it mean fair to my parents? Does it mean a true reflection of what matters to me? Or does it mean like something I'm even allowed to want in the first place? Because those are all different questions and I'd get a little clearer on that.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  That's a really good distinction. I feel like he's asking the last thing. Am I even allowed to want this in the first place? Which is a question probably that many, if not most 17-year-olds would ask, but maybe a 17-year-old from this background with this family especially. And so him starting to put these plans into motion is his way of finding out what he's allowed to want. And I think it's probably pretty obvious so far. We think that you're allowed to want whatever you want, as long as it's, you know, responsible and reasonable and is your true path. So yes, excellent distinction, Jordan. But also, I don't know how much he needs to interrogate all of this in order to feel confident that he's chasing the right thing. Obviously, there's something about aerospace and France and all of this that is speaking to him in a very profound way.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  If he knows in his bones that he's lit up by these things, right? He genuinely loves aerospace. He's excited about learning French and living in Europe. And he can envision this fulfilling life with a family in another country, all of that. I mean, yes, it's definitely important to keep checking in with yourself and make sure that this is the right goal to be chasing because your needs and wants might change as you get a little bit older. But the reality is, if it's speaking to you on like a cellular level and it fills you with excitement and energy, then it's almost certainly the right path, or at least a right path for you.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  True. I think we all know when a goal jibes with something deep inside.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  And also, even if he doesn't end up moving to France and working for Airbus or whatever, all of this great work that he's putting in will set him up well for something. You know, maybe he majors in aerospace and he gets a great job at, I don't know, Northrop Grumman or whatever. I think they're based in Washington DC, right? Or SpaceX in Texas. I'm just making this up. And he loves it and it gives him just enough distance from his parents and all of these other great things that he can't even predict right now start to happen. He could end up in Germany instead of France, or he could end up teaching at a university instead of working at a company, but it turns out to be the right place. And the goal to get to France is what gets him there. My experience has always been that the real value of a goal is to organize one's energy and create a general trajectory, not necessarily to realize the goal in every

• 50:33Speaker 01

  single way to call it successful.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  So more of a North Star than a destination?

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  I agree. He doesn't need to have it all figured out. He can't. All he needs is to trust that his excitement and his interests are genuine.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. If those inputs are genuine and he works hard enough, everything will work out as it should. I really do believe that.

• 50:52Speaker 00

  Amen, man. But maybe the best way to make sure this is reasonable is to make sure that you're not running away from something here. Your parents, your small town, tempting, right? But make sure you're also running towards something, something meaningful, something compelling. That's always a really good thing to keep an eye on because otherwise the motivation can be kind of fleeting, right? It won't sustain you. That's how you end up one state over doing something you don't love because it got you just far enough away from all that, rather than building an incredible career in another country because you're genuinely lit up about that.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, which he does seem to be doing, right?

• 51:27Speaker 00

  I think so, yeah. But you just have to constantly examine that. You really do.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  I'm reading a really beautiful book right now called Missing Out by, I want to say, Adam Phillips, and he talks about this as the difference between getting out from and getting out for.

• 51:41Speaker 00

  Ooh, I like that. Exactly.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  There's something powerful about defining yourself by what you do want, not just by what you don't want.

• 51:47Speaker 00

  A hundred percent, absolutely. Which, this reminds me of when I'm talking about somebody quitting their job and they're like, I should just quit my job and go do X. And it's like, well, okay, do you really just hate your job or do you really want to go do X because it's more compelling? Same concept and he already does seem to be doing that now about this guy in your life. He sounds like a gem and again, I'm so sorry. Your parents were an obstacle to you two being together. They won't be for long. Candidly, look, I can't say if you can sustain a relationship while pouring all of your energy into getting out of Dodge. I mean, you make time for what you want to make time for. There's probably a way you could see this guy while you do your courses and apply to colleges and all that. But I mean, that's logistics, time management. I don't know.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  I think what he's really asking is can I emotionally energetically chase these two things that will probably be incompatible in the end.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  Right. Can I chase these two versions of my life at the same time? It's an interesting question. Again, you're going to have to answer it for yourself, but a helpful question to ask yourself now would be with only 24 hours in a day. And only so many proverbial fucks left to give. What demands the best of me right now? Is it this guy who might be wonderful and supportive and comforting and all those nice things? Or is it my studies and my applications and my career, which will set the foundation for the rest of my life? I realize the way I just framed it, I'm tipping the scales a little here. Maybe that's not fair. There's probably the parent in me doing that. But my bias is I do think the latter is probably where you should spend most of your energy, just given your age and your goals.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  I'm not saying it's going to be wrong to see the guy or that you couldn't find a way to do both. But what all I'm saying is look inside, get clear with yourself about what matters most to you right now. And what's going to move you closer to the things you truly want, and that's all.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  And the answer to his other question, should I try to have a relationship while closeted in an unsupportive household? Do you think that will also flow from that question?

• 53:38Speaker 00

  I do. Yeah. Cause if he's like, no, the guy's great, but I'm all about Carnegie Mellon and I'm all about getting the Airbus. That takes care of that. And if he's like, well, this guy's important to me and I want to experience a real romantic relationship of some type while I'm still in high school. And I can actually balance the two without shooting myself in the foot. Then he'll find a way to see this guy, even if his parents disapprove. But it sounds like the now they're snooping in the phone and they're just making his life miserable. So you gotta weigh that too, unfortunately.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  But if you're asking, is it okay for me to keep seeing this guy if my parents disapprove, then I would. Say, yeah, of course it's okay, but you might have to pay a price for that while you're still living under their roof. It might be stressed, it might be anxiety, it might be sadness, it might be them getting all up in your business, tension in the house, periodic lectures from them. I mean, it's not going to be fun.

• 54:23Speaker 00

  Right. It might get rocky, but yeah, it doesn't mean he's not allowed to. I mean, in less than a year, he's going to be an adult. He's already mature beyond his years. For me, I don't know if I could deal with the stress of having to be under my parents' roof while they're snooping through my phone to make sure I'm not still gay. I don't know if I could deal with that.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Well, on that note, the support you need while you're still living with them, I would say, good friends, which you already have, amazing, both for emotional support and for guidance. And if you ever, you know, need a place to crash, if things get complicated at mom and dad, something like that, friends are great. A therapist would be amazing if you can work with one right now. I know it might be hard when you're a minor, you're not working, but maybe it's someone else in a similar role, like guidance counselor at school, a trusted teacher. I would say someone from church, if they're a safe person to talk to about all of this. I don't know where you stand with all that, just, you know, suss them out accordingly. Educational resources, meaning teachers and peers and programs that will help you forge a path to this career you want. But more than anything, I would say,

• 55:19Speaker 01

  anyone who can celebrate your dreams and help you move closer to them, younger, older, personal, professional, platonic, romantic, in your hometown, all the way across the ocean, whatever, your relationships are going to be everything.

• 55:31Speaker 00

  I totally agree. And I'd be remiss if I didn't shamelessly use this opportunity to say, dig the well before you're thirsty. Check out the six-minute networking course if you're having trouble or you want some suggestions on how to do that. This is not just about, oh, I want to land a job at this very specific company in three months. This is about finding your way to the people who can help you create the life that you want and whose lives you can touch in the same way. It's a beautiful thing. SixMinuteNetworking.com, the whole thing is free without shenanigans on me. So, look, man, I'm deeply sorry that home is not a completely safe and supportive place for you right now. I know that hurts, and frankly, you deserve better. Every kid does. And in a mysterious kind of way, your parents, in their ideology, their rigidity and their ignorance, frankly, they're also

• 56:15Speaker 00

  serving a powerful function in all this, which is they're inadvertently. certainly pushing you to chase the life that you actually want to live. I mean, you're the one who's doing the chasing and it takes a very resourceful person to convert something like this into fuel. And that's one reason why I'm so proud of you. But look, it's fascinating to step back and just notice that your parents, by rejecting this important part of you, they're actually kind of serving, they're helping you out a little bit here in a way.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  Man, that is so true. And yeah, to your point, he's making their rejection serve him.

• 56:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Kudos to him.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  Which is, I think, kind of beautiful. It's complicated and it's sad, but it is, it's kind of poetic, man. And so my sincere hope for you, although I don't think you need this advice, you're already doing this so well. My hope is that you continue to tap into the courage to pursue the things that light you up and create a life that is rich and meaningful. And I promise in a couple more years, your parents will play a much smaller role in all of this, possibly no role at all. And at a certain point, you'll just be an adult making the right choices for himself. So good luck, my friend. I know you're going to go very far. Sending you a big hug and wishing you all the best. Let's have coffee in Toulouse in a couple of years, bro. Also, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for our show if you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, episodes you like, episodes you don't like,

• 57:30Speaker 00

  dank memes about the show, share it all on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. All right. Grab your gayest tub of popcorn, sit back and enjoy the fabulously great deals and discounts on the products and services that support this show. We'll be right back.

• 57:46Speaker 00

  If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and find our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do. That is take a moment, support the sponsors. They're all searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com/deals. If that doesn't work, you can email me, [email protected]. We'll dig up that code for you. Thank you for supporting those who support the show. It really does keep the lights on around here and we love creating these for you. Now, the rest of Feedback Friday.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  All right, time for the recommendation of the week.

• 58:14Speaker 04

  I am addicted to Litville.

• 58:17Speaker 00

  Y'all know I'm obsessed with great tech accessories and charging ports and stuff like that. Then I found the Anchor, which is one of my favorite brands for stuff like this. The Anchor Prime three-port charger. So this is, it's very unsexy, right? It's a little plug that plugs into the wall and it has three USB-C ports on it. But I used to carry five different plugs in my backpack, you know? I got an adapter for my Apple Vision, I got a phone charger, I got a watch charger, I got a da-da-da. Now you don't need the part that plugs into the wall and you just have this one. And here's the thing, most of us, when we charge a device, Jen's like this, because most people, well, most people are, they don't look at wattage and stuff. Let's say you go to a hotel and they got USB ports in the wall. You're like, oh, I'll use this to charge my phone. That thing is like five watts, seven watts, maybe 15 if you're lucky.

• 59:02Speaker 00

  Your phone can charge at 30, 35 watts, maybe even something more. Or you try it with your computer and you're like, why is the battery draining even when it's plugged in? This thing, the Anchor Prime three-port charger, it'll say, oh, your computer's drawing 65 watts. I'm going to give it 65 watts. And your phone wants 35 watts, I'm going to give it 35 watts. And your Apple Watch needs five watts, I'm going to give it five watts. This thing can put out 160 watts, which is more than any laptop charger, generally speaking. At least standard laptops, gaming laptops are a little thirstier. It can put out 160 watts, 140 on any given channel. So you're really charging every device at the absolute max speed. It works great on airplanes too, if you've ever been like, ah, I want to plug in my phone, but I also want to plug in my laptop.

• 59:45Speaker 00

  Now you don't have to carry your laptop charger, your phone charger. You just carry this one thing and you plug all your USB-C cords into it and you fast charge much faster. Jen was like, why do you need this? You already have these little chargers, we already have adapters, we don't need this. As soon as she saw how fast my stuff was charging, I'd come back from breakfast and all my devices are charged up and she needed like three more hours plugged into the wall. She bought one immediately. My brother-in-law heard about it, bought one immediately. His fiancee heard about it, bought one immediately. We cleared out the Anchor store in Dali, China. And I recommend it, it's available here as well. It's currently on sale, depending on when you're Listening to this and the link is in the show notes. All right, next up.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Hi, Jordan and Gabe. We recently had an HVAC company come and install a new unit. While working, they stepped on a sprinkler and flooded my entire house. Ninety-five percent of the house will require renovation and we lost around ninety percent of our things as well.

• 1:00:40Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. Wow. What a nightmare. That, okay, I thought like, oh, it damaged our hardwood floors. No, they lost all of their belongings. I mean, this literally flooded the house. This is crazy.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  The company took the fall and said they would pay for everything, including hotels and expenses. But we've already incurred over $2,000 in debt on our personal credit cards. And the company keeps saying that they are quote unquote, making a plan to pay us. My point of contact doesn't answer the phone and the company overall does not communicate. My homeowner's insurance will only cover $30,000 of additional expenses. For a four to eight month renovation, this would not even be enough to cover alternate housing. I'm crying every day and so stressed out, I wake up at 4 a.m. and pour over what other actions I can take. My daughter is eight years old and is devastated at the loss as well, constantly asking me, when can we go home?

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  We're meeting with lawyers and my insurance is so helpful, but I don't understand how this company can say that they'll do right by us and then leave us hanging. I know accidents happen, but the way they've handled the aftermath has made everything worse. I don't know how to get them to understand that my life has been affected and I'm racking up debt that I shouldn't have to deal with. What would you do? Should I blast them on socials and make sure people know they suck? Do I hire a lawyer and sue them? Or should I wait and see what happens? Do I have any other options? Signed, totally gutted and increasingly red blooded after my house and my mood was accidentally flooded.

• 1:02:11Speaker 00

  What a cluster. Getting secondhand homeowner stress over here. I'm very sorry you guys are going through this. I know what it's like to wake up at 4 a.m. and think like, oh, my gosh, what am I doing wrong or what else can I do? That's peak anxiety. It's just not a good feeling. It's not sustainable. When I had that because of business stuff, I lost a ton of weight. Guys were like, oh, you look so good. I'm like, yeah, I stopped eating. Not ideal to lose your home and all your stuff. Okay, it's just stuff. Yeah, you have everything that matters, but man, it's still a blow. It's a massive disruption. It's a huge administrative burden, I'm sure, between the paperwork and the phone calls and all that. And then the company not communicating well with you guys, I mean, that just sucks too. Honestly, I don't know if they're being shady or they're disorganized or they're just in way over their heads.

• 1:02:55Speaker 00

  I mean, to be fair, this mistake, it probably was a huge financial blow to them too. Especially if it's a mom and pop HVAC company. Maybe they're circling the drain now and they're freaking out trying to stay alive and make a plan to pay you. But whatever's going on with them, you and your family deserve a lot better. So to say the least, my heart goes out to you guys. I do think at this stage, the best thing you can do is find a lawyer to advise you and work closely with them and your insurance company to come up with a plan. It sounds like you're kind of already doing this. I don't know if this needs to become a lawsuit, not yet anyway. My feeling, as you know, lawsuits really should be a last resort. People think that they're easy. I'm not saying you do, but a lot of times people think, oh, it's easy. You just sue them and you win and get the money. No. You already have a huge headache on your hands.

• 1:03:41Speaker 00

  I would not jump straight into creating another one for yourself. But hey, look, maybe your lawyer could draft an official scary looking letter to the HVAC company. Just reminding them of their obligations to you. Maybe that'll make them take you guys more seriously. And if they still won't return your calls, well, then your lawyer can advise you on whether it's worth getting more aggressive and filing something, forcing a response. That'll come down to dollars and cents and whether there's a clear timeline for getting reimbursed. Also, y'all know I love putting bad companies on blast. But look, you're at the stage where your insurance company is involved, potentially a lawyer too. I probably would not drag the company on social media just yet. If your insurance is making progress behind the scenes on a plan to reimburse you and you jump on Yelp like, hey, this company destroyed my house.

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  They're all a-holes who don't care about their customers. I'm hiring a lawyer and suing them. I don't know. That could maybe undo some progress or raise at least any goodwill that you've built. It'll make the company feel like you're not engaging in good faith and all you're gonna do is discharge your anger for a day or two and nothing's gonna change. But down the line, if this whole thing drags out more than it should, or it goes completely sideways, maybe that's appropriate. I would just hit pause on the impulse to do that for now. So yeah, I do think you need to wait and see what happens. You gotta be patient, as hard as it is, but I would still be proactive and engaged along the way. Meaning, when your insurance company sends you paperwork to fill out, fill it out quickly, cleanly, get it back ASAP, don't sleep on that stuff. When your lawyer calls you, don't wait three days to call them back, hit them back right

• 1:05:09Speaker 00

  away, keep the ball rolling, stay in touch with the HVAC company in an appropriate way. Keep the lines of communication open however you can. Also, stop calling their phone, and if you do, document, tried to call, didn't answer. I would send an email if you do call, that says, "I tried to call you, but no answer." Here's my email. Because you want a record. You know, if this does go to court, and they go, "Oh, we haven't even heard from her. We didn't even know she was upset. Now the damages are huge, and she never notified us." No, no, no, you want to be able to go, "I've emailed you every week for eight months, and you called me back four times, said, 'Oh, we need more time, and now I'm suing you.'" You don't want the judge to go, "Well, I don't know, it's her word against theirs." Track all of your expenses in a spreadsheet, keep good notes, stay on top of all your

• 1:05:52Speaker 00

  credit cards, remind your contact at your insurance company every so often that you're taking on the debt personally, and they need to resolve this as soon as possible, for both your sakes. If you get the sense your insurance is asleep at the wheel, or the HVAC company is completely ghosting you, hoping you'll just go away, then you touch base with the lawyer, and you tell them what's going on, and you see what they say. If you need help floating these expenses, maybe you get creative, maybe you get, I hate recommending this, but it's real, you get a 0% APR credit card for a year, year and a half, you put the expenses there without the interest, you get a home equity line of credit at a decent rate, just be super on top of the bill, make sure you pay things off when the time comes, hopefully with the insurance money or the HVAC reimbursement.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  If you need to manage your finances more carefully for a little while to survive this, that's what you do, that's being proactive as well. The point is, getting through this chapter, it's gonna be half surrender and half pushing at the same time. Your goal is to get these people to reimburse you as soon as possible, so that you can rebuild your house. That's it. So make that your North Star. Marshall, all your energy toward that goal. In the meantime, take a deep breath, be patient, trust that this will get resolved one day, hopefully soon.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  For sure. The worst part of this has gotta be the uncertainty, even more than the money.

• 1:07:06Speaker 00

  Always, right? It's the not knowing that kills you. It's the what ifs.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  Yep. How long will this go on? Is the company really gonna honor its promises? Where are we gonna live? Are we gonna be on the street? You know, are we gonna be okay? She's asking some good practical questions, like how do I move this along? But I think what she's really asking is how do I deal with this? Like, how do I deal with the anxiety and the anger and the fear every day?

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  For sure. It's all part of it.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  It's interesting. A few days ago, I was catching up with a friend of mine. Actually, you know her, Jordan. This is one of our old friends. We were talking about this recently. Who lost her home in the Palisades fire and she and her husband have two kids. And she went through exactly what our friend here is going through. The panic, the dread, the stress, the confusion about where to go, what to do first, what to let go of. You know, she was so angry, all of it. And then she went through a period of, okay, we're okay, basically. There's this huge problem happening in the background of our lives and we have no idea what getting back to, you know, where we were is gonna look like. Is it gonna be one year? Is it gonna be two years? Is it gonna be five years or more? Like, is the insurance really gonna find the money to make us all whole? Which, as you know, with these fires is a massive problem.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Is the city gonna approve the permits to rebuild? Do we wanna find another place in LA, knowing this could happen again? You know, should we move? Like, so many questions, huge questions. You know, what school do we put the kids in? It was just endless.

• 1:08:25Speaker 00

  Ugh, what a nightmare. So much harder when you have kids. I get that stress. I, yeah, I really do.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Just so many huge questions and not much information. But then she was telling me how a couple of months in, she and her husband turned a corner. They kinda had to turn a corner. And that corner was, okay, there's literally nothing we can do here, except fill out paperwork and wait. So, we're gonna just accept what's happening, as awful as it is, and we're gonna treat this like an experiment, because what else can we do? And what they ended up doing is they moved to another city for a month, I think. And then they moved to another country for the rest of the year. They put their kids in a new school and they rented a little house and they made a bunch of new friends and they did their jobs in a new way and they got to have some side, cool side travel.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  And they found out what a lot of people find out when they lose something really big, which is this is terrible and it's not just terrible, you know? We also gained this experience and we taught the kids that important quality and we grew a ton and we're so grateful for what we do have now. I'm just going to state the obvious. That is easier for some people than for others. Financially, of course, that's, you know, one of the biggest factors. Logistically, if you have children or you live in a certain place, you have a sick parent, you know, that limits your options, of course. Emotionally, it can be hard. I'm not saying you guys need to move to Italy or whatever for six months in order to survive this. My point is just that whether this is easy or whether it's hard, your basic options remain the same, you know?

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Either you get angry and freak out and rage constantly for the next six months or a year. Or you give yourself over to this process and you focus on what you can control. And you let go of the rest and you just allow yourself to play with some new possibilities that the situation is serving up, whatever that looks like for you.

• 1:10:08Speaker 00

  I mean, there are so many interesting options here. They could stay with different friends for a few months. They could rent an RV and do a road trip over the summer. They could post on Facebook that they need a temporary home and see what happens. But yeah, it's, there are actually people who, this Jen's friend does this all the time. There are people that go, oh, I'm going to be moving temporarily for a job posting to Texas. I want somebody in my Long Island house. No pay, but obviously you stay at my house for free. So she's always staying in these nice fancy houses all over the tri-state area. She just stays there for free and works remotely or commutes if she's close enough to the city. And they're amazing places that she could never afford. And it's funny because she has a place in the city and I'm like, why is Elizabeth

• 1:10:51Speaker 00

  taking a place on Long Island? And Jen's like, oh, here's some photos. And it's like these amazing homes. And the owner's just like, yeah, I have to go work in Spain for three months and I don't want to leave my house unattended.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a perfect example.

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  They would love to have a family there because then it means it's not a twenty something year old having parties in their home while they're gone. I mean, a family's Almost like the ideal people to come and house it for you. Especially if it's going to be like something long term and you can say, hey, I'm doing a good turn because they're essentially going through a hard time. I mean, that kind of stuff works out more often than you might think. But yeah, it's hard to be playful when all your energy is going to some angry Yelp review. You're going to leave or whatever.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's exactly right. But being playful also means focusing on what is in front of you and only what is in front of you. And not letting your mind travel to the past, to the flood, which already happened. So there's nothing you can do about it. Or to fixate on the future to all of these terrible things that might or might not happen, which even if they do happen, are literally impossible to solve right now.

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  Yep. Ye old bureaucratic Buddhism. Exactly.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. Zen in the art of HVAC maintenance, I guess.

• 1:12:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. This is a really interesting test for her. She's going through a version of what I went through with the business reset. Like I said before, right? She's going, oh, my God, we're racking up all this debt. The insurance might not pay us out. The HVAC company might refuse to play ball. We might never get our house back. What's going to happen to us? I totally understand that. I'd be having the same thought. But you can't talk to a company next week. You can't pay a credit card bill that might or might not come in nine months. You can't make yourself feel better next year. Maybe these are real problems. Maybe they're not, but if they are real problems, they're going to be a problem then and not now. And one thing I did is I sucked every what if into this is happening to me right now and stopped eating for two weeks and stopped sleeping for two weeks.

• 1:12:43Speaker 00

  And I know you're doing the same thing. It's easier said than done, but you gotta stop doing that.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  It's that great Marcus Aurelius quote. I think about it all the time. Do not disturb yourself by picturing your life as a whole.

• 1:12:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love that one. I can't say I always live by it, of course, but he's absolutely right.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  It's a hard one to live by. The mind wants to live life all at once, even though that is so absurd. And it wants to be everywhere all at once. It wants to do everything all at once. It wants to be in the end zone when you're still at the starting line. But if you can keep coming back to the tiny slice of life that is right in front of you now, you will be amazed by what you can deal with. This idea has changed. Changed my life and it's made everything, whether it's something fun like the travels or something, you know, really problematic, like something goes sideways and you have to deal with something for six months. It's made everything so much easier.

• 1:13:32Speaker 00

  For sure. And it can be really hard to be disciplined like that. But if you really stop and think about it, it's actually the easier thing to do. The other way is much harder.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  I also think that if you can find a way to handle this chapter with a little more ease, you're gonna give your daughter a great gift, which is showing her how to move through these losses. If she sees you constantly melting down, crying, panicking, getting angry, she's probably gonna get the message that that's how an adult is supposed to respond to adversity. You know, like she's gonna get the message, you have to suffer in order to be effective. If she sees you crying now and again, and then, you know, like throwing up your hands and laughing and focusing on whatever task is in front of you and then going right back to enjoying your evening with her and staying open to new experiences and asking for help when you need it and being grateful for what you have. She's gonna learn how to survive these things in a very different way. So when your daughter says, when can we go home?

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  Maybe you tell her, I know you miss our home. I miss it too. I don't know when this is all gonna be fixed again. We gotta be patient, but I promise I'm working hard to make that happen. And while we wait for all of these people to come help us, let's make a home wherever we go, you and me. I know it's uncomfortable. I know it's weird and different. It's okay if you get sad or angry. I get sad and angry too sometimes. But we have everything we need and we're gonna be okay.

• 1:14:47Speaker 00

  I really like that. Gabe, it's cool to think about how a child will hear that. She's not saying, don't be sad, be grateful for what we have. End of story. She's saying, look, we can be sad, we can be angry, we can be scared, and...

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  Yes, that and is everything.

• 1:15:01Speaker 00

  Yes, the power of and. So I hope that gives you a few new angles here. Life's weird, man. Accidents happen, things get destroyed. We go through periods of frustration and uncertainty. I wish it was not happening to you. I'm sure you feel the same way. And yet, this is what's happening. And since it's happening, you really only have one rational choice. The alternative is to just be flattened by and defined by this loss. And let's also take a moment to remember that you have everything that truly matters. You have your lives, your child is safe, you have some kind of roof over your heads. You have food and water. You have the ability to sit down and tell us your story. That's the headline. I'm not minimizing how stressful this is. It's stressful, but don't forget to make room for other feelings alongside it. Sending y'all a big hug and wishing you all the best.

• 1:15:46Speaker 00

  Go back and check out Danny Bate if you haven't done so yet. Show notes and transcripts on the website, advertisers, discounts and ways to support the show. Also on the website at jordanharbinger.com/deals. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Gabe on Instagram at Gabriel Mizrahi. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tadis Alaskis, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer and I was never a good lawyer. So consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. And if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today.

• 1:16:29Speaker 00

  In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time.

• 1:16:37Speaker 00

  The most powerful longevity tool may not be in a supplement bottle or high-tech clinic. It might be the simple movement most of us barely think about.

• 1:16:44Speaker 05

  So I have plenty of patients that are in chronic pain. People's feet are weak. The footwear is compromising the function of their feet. And this is what we get. One out of three people over the age of 45 have foot pain. People don't pay attention to their feet. We talk about, you know, meeting people where they are. Getting to 5,000 steps a day decreases the risk of depression. This is a very, very big thing that I think should be on every prescription pad. That sweet spot is about 7,000 to 8,000 steps a day. That's game changing. You gotta put the work in, you know? You have to put the work in for anything that's worth doing. Getting outside and having that repetitive motion. We're stimulating neurotransmitters in our brain. We're decreasing cortisol.

• 1:17:29Speaker 05

  You're increasing your parasympathetic state, which is the chill state. These are all very, very good things. If you start paying attention to this stuff, it will save you so much in the long run. Cause I see people. Every single day they cannot walk because something hurts because of foot pain, every single day. My goal is to keep people walking as much as they want to as they age. And that's going to happen by making sure that their foot is strong. Please pay attention to your feet. Look at them. Can you move your toes? Can you splay your toes? And if not, start to work on things to improve the strength of your foot. Wear a shoe that's more functional, that respects the anatomy of your foot. If you do just those things, you'll probably stay out of my office.

• 1:18:12Speaker 00

  Check out episode 1322 with Dr. Courtney Conley reveals how a few strategically timed steps can add healthier years to your life. Quick break to tell you about a free podcast app worth checking out, available on both iOS and Android. If you're still using one of the built in podcast apps, it might be time to upgrade to something better like Castbox. It's got a clean look, easy navigation, features that actually make listening easier. More than 100,000 of our listeners already subscribe to the show there on Castbox. So a lot of you might already know how good it is. One thing I really care about in a podcast app is strong search and Castbox does that really well. It makes it easy to find exactly the shows and episodes you want. I routinely use it for show prep to find specific episodes. Whether you're searching for a specific guest, a topic you're into, or an episode you want

• 1:18:54Speaker 00

  to revisit, you can also personalize your listening experience by creating playlists without downloading the episodes. Organize your subscriptions, save episodes for later. Best of all, it's completely free and ad free, which makes the whole experience a lot more enjoyable. Download Castbox today, subscribe to the Jordan Harbinger Show, of course, and leave us a comment while you're there.