Adele vs Shakespeare: Who Actually Changed the World More?

All good doctors need to stress test their own skills from time to time. And when the world’s greatest minds can’t quite swing by the office for an examination, there’s only one thing for it: Joe and Jake will have to diagnose them from afar. For the first ever Greatest Minds session, Joe is putting forward Adele, while Jake is backing William Shakespeare. Their task? To prove which of them has had the greatest impact on the world. From Adele becoming a musical prodigy and releasing one of the biggest-selling albums of all time, to Shakespeare creating words we still use today and influencing culture centuries after his death, both sides come armed with evidence - and neither is particularly willing to back down. But arguments can only get you so far in Dr Marler’s office. In true Joe Marler Will See You Now style, there’s only one way to settle Adele vs Shakespeare once and for all… with a final exercise worthy of two of the world’s greatest minds. GET TICKETS TO THE LIVE TOUR HERE: https://www.livenation.co.uk/joe-marler-will-see-you-live-tickets-adp1647830 Featuring Joe Marler (@joemarler17) and Jake Bhardwaj (@jakebhardwajtv) Follow the show on Instagram: @willseeyounowshow Joe Marler Will See You Now is a Platform Media production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 1:24Speaker 03

  Let's bring them out. Please welcome Adele and William Shakespeare.

• 1:29Speaker 03

  For the audio listener, we've got some wigs doing some heavy lifting.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  How does that feel over there?

• 1:36Speaker 04

  What, what do you mean?

• 1:37Speaker 03

  How does it feel? Let me give you a little insight into how it's felt for me. Who's that over there? What does he do? Why is he here? Why is his ankles weird? Why is his nose weird? Why is his eyes weird? Why is his ears weird? Why is his arms weird? Why is his whole body weird? And that was just the Pete Wicks episode.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  Quite simply. You're in the cuck chair, mate. How does it feel?

• 1:58Speaker 04

  It's all right, actually.

• 1:59Speaker 03

  Yeah? Do you know where cuck comes from?

• 2:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a town near Haywood Heath.

• 2:05Speaker 03

  No. Cuck comes from the word cuckold, which is a Shakespearean word. He came up with it to mean, to mean, to mean someone who...

• 2:14Speaker 04

  Go on, go on.

• 2:15Speaker 03

  To mean someone who...

• 2:16Speaker 04

  Go on, you haven't got your laptop now, have you?

• 2:18Speaker 03

  It's weird.

• 2:21Speaker 04

  Not so easy over there, is it?

• 2:24Speaker 03

  It's so much easier with a laptop in the corner.

• 2:27Speaker 04

  Check out the desk of the pens and paper. Check that one out. Ooh.

• 2:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it means, it means...

• 2:32Speaker 04

  Did you know it's a cuckold, it's a Shakespeare?

• 2:34Speaker 03

  It means, it means, it means to a man who sort of knows and is aware of his wife sleeping with someone else. How does it feel to be sat over there? Are you getting an insight into how it is for me?

• 2:44Speaker 04

  It's quite cooling and freeing and plus I've got access to water, so I don't know what you moan about all the time.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  I have to say, sat over here is quite intense. You are sat just facing, all the lights are on, it's all happening. I mean, over there actually seems quite peaceful.

• 2:57Speaker 04

  Do you think this is how we should do the show moving forward?

• 3:01Speaker 03

  Sadly, mate, that face of yours is the moneymaker. So I think sadly, no, we can't. You've got to be front and centre.

• 3:09Speaker 04

  We've addressed our positions in the room.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  Are we going to address why we're starting our episode like this? And are we going to stay here or do you want me to come join you?

• 3:19Speaker 03

  I think you should come over.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  What, immediately?

• 3:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, shouldn't you?

• 3:23Speaker 04

  Quite like it, yeah.

• 3:24Speaker 03

  Please come over. I feel a bit exposed and lonely.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  Ooh, this is better, isn't it?

• 3:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you're used to this, aren't you? This is the doctor's office.

• 3:37Speaker 04

  Shall we explain what we're doing?

• 3:38Speaker 03

  Running out of guests. To be honest with you...

• 3:42Speaker 04

  Shall we lie...

• 3:42Speaker 03

  You can't get, you can't get...

• 3:43Speaker 04

  Shall we lie about what we're doing?

• 3:44Speaker 03

  You can't get... I think we can be honest and be saying, and say, "Look, we've had Prince Harry, we've had Joe Lycett, we've had Ross Kemp. If you can name another famous person, great, we'll have them on." But I think, I think we're actually at a point where we can't. So we're gonna, we're gonna, we're just hang out, you and me, occasionally perhaps.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, we're gonna nominate a person each that we feel are the greatest mind or worthy of being called one of the greatest minds this world has ever seen. You know, I've done a, okay, we've done a decent job of exploring patients in the chair, but the times where people are too famous...

• 4:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're busy.

• 4:25Speaker 04

  Too busy or too dead.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  Lots of very clever people are dead.

• 4:29Speaker 04

  Loads of them, like loads of people are dead.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  And we can't get them into the office to analyse them because...

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Well, you can, you can...

• 4:35Speaker 03

  It's not right though, is it?

• 4:37Speaker 04

  Subjective, that is.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  It's not advised, I wouldn't say.

• 4:40Speaker 04

  There's a lot of like red tape to go...

• 4:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:43Speaker 04

  Through before you get that in.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  I think it's exciting. Speaking of great minds, no guest, no job for Janet today.

• 4:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, she did have a few days left...

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 04

  Of time in lieu.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  Oh, right. What's she doing with her time in lieu? You strike me as a man who's just learnt the phrase "time in lieu."

• 5:06Speaker 03

  So today, I think we agreed that we wanted to sort of focus on the greatest cultural mind in history. I am going to bring to the table someone who I think has shaped the way we talk, shaped the way we consume storytelling. It is William Shakespeare. Quick intake questionnaire for William Shakespeare. He can't be here because he's massively dead. Name: William Shakespeare. Age: 52.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  No, he's not.

• 5:37Speaker 03

  52, well, no, he's now 462.

• 5:40Speaker 04

  Okay, so be accurate.

• 5:41Speaker 03

  Getting on with it. 52, young to have died.

• 5:45Speaker 04

  Not back then. Average age was 23.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  So it's interesting you say that. That is because of the infant mortality, which is obviously very sad. But if he made it, so that brought the average down. But if he made it through infancy, I think actually he would live to sort of like 60, 70s. So I think he did die sort of young even for his time.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 04

  Good knowledge, that.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  That means I've got 20 years left.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  It's horrible. 39 plays written.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  That's a lot of plays and he's, he's 52 when he's gone. For me to, for me to hit that, for me to hit that, I would need to be averaging like, I'd need to be going two a year.

• 6:23Speaker 04

  Why, why do you have to write the plays?

• 6:25Speaker 03

  I don't know. Do you never just sort of like read about these famous people and then start relating them to your own life?

• 6:32Speaker 03

  I guess maybe because you've been successful in the thing you wanted to be and so you've got nothing to compare yourself to.

• 6:38Speaker 03

  I don't know, maybe I compare myself to other people because I just think, wow, you did all that in that specific field. But I suppose you're in the field, on the field, you did it all.

• 6:46Speaker 04

  Having known you for quite some time now, never in a million years did I think you would be comparing your life to Shakespeare at any point.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Right, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I suppose so.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  So do you want to take a step back from that and just watch yourself compare yourself to Shakespeare now?

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's stupid, isn't it? I don't even want to be a playwright. Don't like the theatre. Star sign: Taurus. Sonnets written: 154.

• 7:12Speaker 04

  No.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  Favourite drink: ale or mead. Or mead. But probably drank a lot of the ale because the water wasn't safe enough. Did you know that?

• 7:22Speaker 04

  What, but surely you need water to make ale?

• 7:24Speaker 03

  That's what's always confused me.

• 7:26Speaker 04

  Oh, but the yeast...

• 7:28Speaker 03

  I think the yeast or the alcohol kills the enzyme and the bacteria.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  And... Because they boil it, it kills all the bugs.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  So there we go, that's sorted. Right, so those are his key stats.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  Good. Strong, strong start from you.

• 7:43Speaker 03

  Strong offering.

• 7:44Speaker 04

  Mine is of course...

• 7:47Speaker 04

  Ah, that you settle down, that you found a girl and you're married now. Stop, legally, can't do any more. Name?

• 8:04Speaker 03

  Adele.

• 8:05Speaker 04

  Adele. Full name: Adele Laurie Blue Atkins.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  I'm excited for this.

• 8:10Speaker 04

  Do you know what my, one of my son's middle names is?

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Adele?

• 8:18Speaker 04

  No, it's Blue.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Really?

• 8:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  Oh, because after Adele's middle name.

• 8:23Speaker 04

  Who have you ever come across that has given their child middle name after someone else's famous middle name?

• 8:33Speaker 03

  I'll be honest with you, I don't, I've not met anyone like you. So I would say if there's a first to everything, it's probably coming from that direction.

• 8:40Speaker 04

  Fair enough. Yeah, appreciate it. Age?

• 8:42Speaker 03

  Yes. How old is Adele now? I'm going to put her at 35 years old.

• 8:48Speaker 04

  38.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  38? Adele's older than you.

• 8:50Speaker 04

  She did 30?

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 04

  What do you mean Adele's older than me?

• 8:53Speaker 03

  I just didn't expect it.

• 8:56Speaker 04

  We're here again, aren't we?

• 8:58Speaker 03

  I didn't expect it.

• 8:59Speaker 04

  Star sign: Taurus.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Same as Shakespeare. Ooh, that's interesting.

• 9:05Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  Maybe, maybe if you were a Taurus, you've got sort of a more of an aptitude for, for, for being a wordsmith.

• 9:12Speaker 04

  Or they were both immediately inclined to take their work on tour to share with us.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  Wow, that actually is quite good, I think. Are we clapping on that or... Tentative clap, it's a tentative clap. For the audio listener, the producers clap but raise their shoulders to go, "I don't know if we should, but we have." That's, I think that's very clever. That's very clever.

• 9:38Speaker 04

  Number of albums?

• 9:39Speaker 03

  Four.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  19, 21, 25, 30. We're waiting for the big four-oh. Biggest fear?

• 9:49Speaker 03

  Adele's?

• 9:51Speaker 04

  You'd never get it. You'll, you'll, honestly, you'll never get it in a million years.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  Does she fear, I guess fear not like having another breakup so she can't write another album?

• 10:01Speaker 04

  No, it's, it's very good. No, she gets stage fright. She doesn't like performing.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  No way.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  Mental.

• 10:08Speaker 03

  In her line of work.

• 10:10Speaker 04

  Favourite swear word?

• 10:12Speaker 03

  Adele's? Fuck.

• 10:13Speaker 04

  Fuck!

• 10:14Speaker 03

  It's got to be in it.

• 10:15Speaker 04

  Fuck!

• 10:15Speaker 03

  Fuck!

• 10:16Speaker 04

  Fuck!

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 04

  Allegedly, she once said the fuck word 56 times...

• 10:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:23Speaker 04

  In one performance.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 10:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was 2017 at Wembley. 56 times. Ah, fuck! You settle down, now you fuck. Do you know what I mean? I set fire to the fuck!

• 10:46Speaker 03

  So, mister, I'm quite excited about this because we've gone away and we've both come up with a few arguments, few reasons why we think our person is the greatest cultural mind ever. Is it Adele? Or is it Shakespeare? What you got?

• 11:01Speaker 03

  If you'd like to serve, I would like to receive.

• 11:04Speaker 04

  She is one of the most successful artists of all time, okay? Check this out. Her second album, Twenty One, is the most sold female album ever. Over fifty-five million copies. Million.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  Million?

• 11:22Speaker 04

  Million.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  That's million? It's in the millions.

• 11:25Speaker 04

  So that's impressive, like she's made her mark, hasn't she? She's left her imprint on the world.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  I guarantee there isn't a single person in the world...

• 11:37Speaker 03

  That guarantee's sort of waning quite quickly.

• 11:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, waning.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  What was the... Tell me what the guarantee was gonna be.

• 11:42Speaker 04

  Okay. I can almost guarantee to you that the majority of the world...

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Do you know what? An almost guarantee is so worthless. It's almost under warranty.

• 11:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Like, what was your almost guarantee?

• 11:57Speaker 04

  I can almost guarantee that most of the world has heard an Adele song.

• 12:02Speaker 03

  What I'd have loved... What I'd tell you what I'd have loved is just a few more definitives, which would have been, I can guarantee that every person in the world's heard an Adele song, but what we've got is...

• 12:12Speaker 04

  But I couldn't do that.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  Well, I know you couldn't, I know you couldn't. What you've been able to offer is you can almost guarantee

• 12:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  that the

• 12:20Speaker 04

  Most.

• 12:20Speaker 03

  that most people in the world have heard an Adele song.

• 12:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Still very good. Yes, I would agree, the impact is pretty undeniable.

• 12:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  It's undeniable.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  What's your, um, what's your...

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Angar.

• 12:35Speaker 04

  To my...

• 12:36Speaker 03

  So I see, I see your cultural impact.

• 12:39Speaker 04

  Oh, you're going with the cards reference.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  And I raise you the fact that Shakespeare has carved with loads of words. I just think it's quite mad that so much of our language is just stuff he came up with. Just stuff he came up with.

• 12:54Speaker 04

  Thou.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  He didn't come up with that, he used it a lot, though.

• 12:57Speaker 04

  He didn't come up with that?

• 12:58Speaker 03

  No.

• 12:59Speaker 04

  What?

• 12:59Speaker 03

  That was already, that was already going.

• 13:00Speaker 04

  I've always got the impression he's taken credit for that, then.

• 13:03Speaker 03

  Give me, I'm gonna give, I'll give you some gossip.

• 13:06Speaker 04

  What did it mean back then?

• 13:07Speaker 03

  It meant what it means now, but there wasn't a word for it. You'd have to say, talking about people behind their back or something like that. How mad's that?

• 13:15Speaker 04

  Gossip.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  Gossip. Um, lonely, bedroom, the phrase breaking the ice, bare-faced, he came up with puking, the phrase heart of gold, cuckold, which we get cuck from. Swagger. I mean, it's just incredible, isn't it?

• 13:32Speaker 04

  You sound way too modern.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  That's what I mean. Like, a modern language is shaped by this, this bloody guy.

• 13:40Speaker 04

  Okay, what's your favourite word?

• 13:42Speaker 03

  Favourite word? It changes a lot, I guess. I recently...

• 13:45Speaker 04

  What's your favourite current word?

• 13:46Speaker 03

  Currently, I quite enjoy saying the word diaphragmatic.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  Meaning?

• 13:50Speaker 03

  To breathe from your diaphragm, to engage your diaphragm.

• 13:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  It's like the way it sounds.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  Go on.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  Diaphragmatic. Um, I also quite like words that end in that sound, sludge, trudge. I find that quite like, nice to sort of say, trudge and sludge.

• 14:04Speaker 04

  Three, then fudge.

• 14:06Speaker 03

  Fudge.

• 14:06Speaker 04

  Budge.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Budge, quite a lot. Um, yeah. You have a favourite word?

• 14:10Speaker 04

  Mine?

• 14:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, yours, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:13Speaker 04

  No, mine.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  That's what, where you get a round of applause. That's very clever. That's clever. That's fucking great.

• 14:25Speaker 04

  You patronise insult.

• 14:26Speaker 03

  No, fuck you, that's good.

• 14:28Speaker 04

  No, no, fuck you first.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  Fuck you first.

• 14:30Speaker 04

  What?

• 14:34Speaker 03

  We've discussed why Adele is such a cultural icon because of the impact she's made in the sales. I've talked about Shakespeare's words. What else you got for Adele?

• 14:42Speaker 04

  She was a child star.

• 14:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, true.

• 14:45Speaker 04

  A prodigy.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 04

  So to speak. When she was sixteen, she wrote her first song.

• 14:57Speaker 04

  Hometown Glory.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Hometown Glory.

• 14:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  Does doing something early in life mean that you're necessarily better?

• 15:02Speaker 04

  I mean, I mean, I guess you've got more time to then look back at it.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 15:11Speaker 04

  And really take it in.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I suppose so.

• 15:13Speaker 04

  Do you know what I mean?

• 15:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:14Speaker 04

  Do you know what I mean?

• 15:15Speaker 03

  Not really.

• 15:16Speaker 04

  If you do it early, you're like, oh, I've experienced that, you can move on to the next thing. Rather than chasing something for a long time, like, take a mortgage, for example.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:26Speaker 04

  If you could buy a house and pay it off by the time you're eleven, you then

• 15:32Speaker 04

  you haven't got to worry about that for like forty-five years of paying off. Do you know what I mean? You're like, oh, I've got to take a big loan out. If you could do it at eleven, that's done in dustage, you've got a gaff, then you're like, right. You haven't got that to worry about. So yeah, in that example, you do wanna do things early in your life.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, imagine being an eleven-year-old and mortgage-free. That'd be incredible.

• 15:54Speaker 04

  Right, that was my Adele. What have you got for Shakespeare, Jakey Boy?

• 15:59Speaker 03

  I would say I think it's incredible that four hundred years later, we're still talking about the guy. And that for me is a big sign of being a great mind, I think, the longevity of it. The longevity of his work, his work existing and living forever. Much like yours will. People will look back at the documentaries of Joe Marler's Greatest Scrums. And scrums?

• 16:27Speaker 03

  Keep it to Shakespeare. And

• 16:30Speaker 03

  they'll look back at that. And we're, and we do the same with Shakespeare. We look back and we think, wow, he's done all that stuff.

• 16:36Speaker 04

  So he's...

• 16:37Speaker 03

  He started when he was twenty-five, kept going till he was fifty-two. One point six, I think that's one point six plays a year consistently. And we're still talking about them today. And the amount of stuff as well that you don't realise is inspired by Shakespeare. West Side Story, Romeo and Juliet. The Lion King, inspired by Hamlet.

• 16:56Speaker 04

  Okay, so Shakespeare went there, he was like, oh, right, I'm gonna get a big daddy lion.

• 17:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:01Speaker 04

  And he's gonna fall, he's gonna fall off a cliff.

• 17:04Speaker 03

  Killed.

• 17:04Speaker 04

  And then his son's gonna take over.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  Prince of Denmark.

• 17:07Speaker 04

  The dastardly uncle who turned out in the

• 17:11Speaker 03

  To be the king, yeah.

• 17:11Speaker 04

  The prequel.

• 17:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 04

  They weren't actually blood brothers.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  Forget the prequel, I mean, that was not, it was, it was never the prequel.

• 17:17Speaker 04

  Then he banishes him by lying to him, so he fucks off and meets a tiny little

• 17:25Speaker 04

  meerkat.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  Meerkat and warthog.

• 17:26Speaker 04

  And a warthog.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. Do you think we look like Timon and Pumbaa?

• 17:29Speaker 04

  Definitely. Who's who, though?

• 17:31Speaker 03

  I think we know, don't we?

• 17:35Speaker 04

  Say it out loud.

• 17:36Speaker 03

  I think I would be Timon, you would be Pumbaa. When I was a young warthog, when he was a young warthog.

• 17:47Speaker 04

  God, can we apply?

• 17:48Speaker 03

  For what?

• 17:50Speaker 04

  The Lion King. Can't we go and audition together?

• 17:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, we, oh my gods!

• 17:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  Do you think they'd have us?

• 17:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, no. But the audition would be fun. Wouldn't it?

• 18:01Speaker 03

  Jeez Louise, that'd be incredible, yeah. All right, put that on the list of things to do.

• 18:05Speaker 04

  Um, so you think that was inspired by, yeah, it does.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, what you've described there is the plot of, um, of the plot of Hamlet.

• 18:11Speaker 04

  Do you think that that's him leaving a legacy because it was so good?

• 18:15Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  Or is it a sign of our inability to develop something more creative and better? Like, why are we still, we don't use his words. I know, we use some of his words.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Quite a lot of them, I mean, I listed quite a few words there that we were gonna list. No, we can go through them again.

• 18:31Speaker 04

  No, no, no.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  We don't use gossip, lonely bedroom, bare-faced, puking, heart of gold, swagger.

• 18:37Speaker 04

  No, we use some of them.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 04

  But not the ones from his plays and that lot.

• 18:41Speaker 03

  Those are all from his plays.

• 18:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, but like, the proper ones that he uses all the time, like, oh, wherefore art thou? Doesn't even make sense grammatically.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 18:52Speaker 04

  Do you know what I mean? Where are you too?

• 18:54Speaker 03

  Where are you too? Yeah, do you know what? I actually have to slightly agree with you there.

• 18:59Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 19:00Speaker 03

  Why has there not been another one?

• 19:01Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  You've just got to write loads of plays. Someone should be doing that. In every other field, we've had someone who's superseded the last great titan of that field. We had, we had Isaac Newton, then we had Stephen Hawking.

• 19:13Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 19:14Speaker 03

  In, in music, we had, um, we had, we had Shirley Bassey, then we had Adele.

• 19:21Speaker 04

  Adele.

• 19:22Speaker 03

  In Name a Field, someone Name a Field? Cooking. Cooking, thank you. Cooking. How sweetly you said it as well. We had Fanny Craddock, then we had Nigella Lawson. Do another one. Boxing. Boxing. We had, um, uh, we had Mike, one of the early boxers, and then we've got one of the later boxers. Right. But there's always been someone who's superseded, whereas Shakespeare's like, right, Charles Dickens had a crack at it. He had a good crack.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  A decent crack.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Decent crack.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  Probably like more

• 19:49Speaker 03

  Great crack on Dickens. But, but still Shakespeare's like, no, it's all, he's a bit, and I do think, why, why haven't we had someone who's as good? So yeah, I agree with you on that.

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• 21:36Speaker 03

  Joe, final statement on Adele, please.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Okay, I love that you've just talked about all the stories that Shakespeare has told and have stood the test of time. And this is a little bit similar.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 21:49Speaker 04

  Adele is also one of the greatest storytellers, albeit most of them have been based around heartbreak.

• 21:55Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  But there's that clip of James Corden presenting the Brits.

• 22:02Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:02Speaker 04

  I think it was, and he turns, he goes, "If you've ever felt a broken heart or ever been Judas by someone, you're about to relive it now." And it's the wonderful Adele. And then it goes to Adele on the stage and she starts singing "Someone Like You." And it was like, oh, wow. This is incredible. And I just think she's able to connect to so many people that have experienced heartache and breakups in their life.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  But the irony is, although I'm championing her for doing that and connecting, I've never experienced a breakup or anything to actually relate to that. And yet I am madly obsessed with all of her songs.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  So what is it that you're relating to then? Because you feel a deep connection to her songs.

• 22:55Speaker 04

  Completely. Because I think I was going through some of my lowest points in my life when she was at her highest of popularity with her songs around "Someone Like You" and all of it. I just, I would put it on in the car and I'd just be crying my eyes out. But it wasn't connected. That was like background noise that I could hear, but it wasn't connected to what I was feeling. Do you know what I mean? What I'm trying to say, that it always brings up memories of those periods in my life that then got me through without actually experiencing

• 23:39Speaker 04

  the specific or heartache that she was bringing up.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  So what about now when you hear those songs?

• 23:45Speaker 04

  I'll still, if I'm alone or, you know, in that particular mood or, you know, I might shed a couple of tears now, but less so in the way I was back then and more out of like a bit of pride, a bit of, oh, I still have meltdowns, but not meltdowns as big as they used to be. Or I'm in a better place than I was. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's a weird way of trying to describe it to you because I'm not the wordsmith that has invented all the words.

• 24:20Speaker 03

  No, but I think that...

• 24:22Speaker 04

  That's just the feeling.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  I think that may have swung it for me, though.

• 24:26Speaker 04

  What?

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, Shakespeare, great and all that, but like, that feels more real.

• 24:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it is real, but you can't let my personal experience of her sway your...

• 24:39Speaker 03

  Why not?

• 24:39Speaker 04

  ...argue, because it's...

• 24:42Speaker 03

  I don't know. You're saying that she's helped you through some of the toughest times in your life?

• 24:47Speaker 04

  Well, she hasn't.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  Her music has.

• 24:49Speaker 04

  Her music has, yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  I wouldn't say Shakespeare's helped. "I'm really going through a tough time. Let me read much ado about nothing." Or, "I'm feeling like I'm losing control of my mind or a grip on reality. Let's revisit The Tempest." Whereas what you're saying, I think, is, I don't know, more real for me.

• 25:11Speaker 04

  Oh. So yeah, that's my Adele love for her music and the help she gave me from stopping me completely losing the plot.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  Hmm. Tell you someone who never lost the plot: Shakespeare. So, final thing is, and look, I don't even, I still think the emotional connection you have with Adele has inspired me to say maybe Adele is one of the greatest cultural minds that the world's ever produced. However, I want to talk about how Shakespeare is just prolific, productive. This is an age before people like Stephen Bartlett are saying, "We've all got 24 hours in a day. It's just how we use it." This guy's just getting on with it. So a new play every seven or eight months?

• 25:56Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 25:57Speaker 03

  To what I think we can all agree, quite a high standard. And doing that consistently between the age of 25 and 52?

• 26:06Speaker 04

  He just did it loads.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  Just that he did it loads. I think doing stuff loads is quite cool.

• 26:10Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  People don't do stuff loads enough.

• 26:12Speaker 04

  Adele's got over a billion streams.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, but she's not doing those. That's everyone else doing those. She's done four albums, that's it.

• 26:18Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 26:20Speaker 03

  She's done 39 plays.

• 26:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a good point. Well, she's done over 39 songs.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  Play versus song?

• 26:26Speaker 04

  As in, what do you mean?

• 26:28Speaker 03

  What's more impressive? Knocking out a whole play or knocking out one song? I mean, she did the Hometown Glory one in 15 minutes, she said.

• 26:34Speaker 04

  10.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  Even worse.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Before we do our final exercise to put Adele and Shakespeare to head-to-head, we've got a series of quickfire situations, okay? We're going to decide who would be best in each of these situations out of Adele or Shakespeare.

• 26:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm ready. Let's go.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  Who'd you rather watch football with?

• 26:59Speaker 04

  Oh, well, Adele would be good crack because you're fucking hell of a state of him. Fucking hell, what's he doing? Like, she'd probably get into it. But I'd quite enjoy Shakespeare's attempt at like...

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, give it some flowery language about it.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  You know, there's quite a lot of similarities in vocab between me and Adele, so maybe I'd choose Shakespeare.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  I'd go Adele because she's a Spurs fan, and I am as well.

• 27:22Speaker 04

  Are you?

• 27:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. Don't ask me about it, though. Better on a night out?

• 27:30Speaker 04

  Adele.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  I think Shakespeare.

• 27:31Speaker 04

  Oh, fucking him, sitting there coughing on his fucking me.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:35Speaker 04

  Do you know how hard it is to get some me these days? You go to Oceana, mate. You can't go, oh, can I have a...

• 27:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, which means we'll probably go to some more sort of established... Also, I like an old pub as well, and he'd be quite a home there in a sort of nice Tudor pub. Brilliant at a pub quiz, to be fair, although general knowledge, current affairs, wouldn't be that good. Finally, who would hold a grudge for the longest? Adele, definitely. Write an album about it. Every album is a grudge album, isn't it?

• 28:00Speaker 04

  Have you ever watched Macbeth?

• 28:03Speaker 03

  Hmm, what, you think that's a grudge thing?

• 28:05Speaker 04

  Well, the witches always hate the people.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I suppose they did. The witches did always hate the people.

• 28:11Speaker 04

  And the thing about Romeo and Juliet, that's full of grudges, two houses.

• 28:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. But then, do you know what? Fair, actually, there's a lot of grudge stuff there.

• 28:25Speaker 03

  Right, so Joe, we always finish every episode with a final exercise, and today's no different. But that does mean I need to relocate to the culture to make space for a very, very exciting finale.

• 28:38Speaker 04

  Oh. Begoneth.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  For this final test of Adele versus Shakespeare, it's time for them to go head-to-head. Let's bring them out. Please welcome Adele and William Shakespeare.

• 28:56Speaker 04

  Whoa!

• 28:59Speaker 04

  Yeah!

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Wow!

• 29:03Speaker 04

  Billy boy!

• 29:04Speaker 03

  For the audio listener, we've got some wigs doing some heavy lifting. Some heavy, heavy lifting. Joe, to the right of you, you've got William Shakespeare. And then on the left, we've got Adele. So, one thing that we know unites these two is their love of words, specifically rhyming.

• 29:21Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 29:21Speaker 03

  They rhyme in their sonnets. They rhyme in their songs. They rhyme in their plays. They rhyme all the time. However, we want to know, who knows the most rhymes? Joe, what will they be doing?

• 29:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, so you're going to pick an animal and the animal has to be doing something. But that said animal needs to rhyme with the thing that it's doing. Are you with me? For example, let's try and telepathize this one with Jake. Cat sitting on a mat.

• 29:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 29:56Speaker 04

  Said out loud by two great prats.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Prats. Okay.

• 30:02Speaker 04

  Do you understand, William?

• 30:04Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 30:05Speaker 04

  Do you understand, Adele?

• 30:06Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 30:07Speaker 04

  Jake, I think they understand.

• 30:08Speaker 03

  All right. We won't accept any repeated animals or any repeated actions. The first person to fail to deliver a rhyme loses. The battle of the great wordsmiths. Adele, your serve.

• 30:20Speaker 07

  A dog eating a chocolate log.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  A horse taking an evening course. Oh, wow. The venom in which he's gone there, he means business.

• 30:33Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 30:34Speaker 07

  An owl opening its bowel.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  Hmm, really nicely played.

• 30:41Speaker 04

  Sorry, William. To do anything or just has the ability to open and close?

• 30:46Speaker 07

  Just seeing what's there.

• 30:47Speaker 04

  William.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  A crow hopping...

• 30:55Speaker 03

  Go on, William. Into the garden to mow. Yeah, yeah, okay. Didn't need hopping, really, did you?

• 31:03Speaker 03

  A crow going to mow would have worked, but that's lovely. You're very whimsical. I like how whimsical William is. Adele?

• 31:10Speaker 07

  A lion. That is lion.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  It just about works, yeah? It's in the game.

• 31:24Speaker 04

  Are we accepting that, Jake?

• 31:25Speaker 03

  We'll accept it.

• 31:26Speaker 04

  Okay, William.

• 31:30Speaker 03

  A piranha.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  Eating a banana.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  Adele.

• 31:36Speaker 07

  A pig. Eating a fig.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  Well played. Pull that back onto the old line debacle.

• 31:44Speaker 04

  Okay. Okay, William, it's back to you.

• 31:49Speaker 03

  A chicken. With stickers. It's stickin'.

• 31:58Speaker 04

  Adele, please continue.

• 32:00Speaker 07

  A mole. Who is scoring a goal.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  Wonderful. Back in.

• 32:07Speaker 04

  William.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  A bat. Buying a flat. Nice.

• 32:13Speaker 04

  Adele, keep it going.

• 32:15Speaker 07

  A. Beaver.

• 32:19Speaker 07

  Pulling on a lever.

• 32:21Speaker 04

  Over to you, William.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  The chimp. Had a limp.

• 32:28Speaker 07

  The bear.

• 32:30Speaker 07

  Letting off a flare.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  A badger voting for Thatcher. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm gonna have to jump in there. Badger, Thatcher. It's not a true rhyme. It's not a true rhyme. The bard himself has fallen. Adele is our winner.

• 32:50Speaker 03

  They shook hands. So there we go. By the power of science, we've proved that Adele is the greatest cultural mind that we could have ever hoped for. Give it up for Adele and Shakespeare. We've had a lovely day of it, Joe. Take us home.

• 33:02Speaker 04

  If you would like to join the doctor's waitlist, then please subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on Instagram at We'll See You Now Show. Remember, unless it's not clear enough already, I'm not a real doctor. You will find a link to great support services on our Instagram. I've been Joe Marler, he's been Jake Bhardwaj.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  I was, I thought the team would give a bit more.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  They don't, they don't, but it's okay. Thank you.

• 33:29Speaker 04

  And this has been Joe Marler, We'll See You Now, and we'll see you next time.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  Bye bye.

• 33:35Speaker 06

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