Jocko Underground: Why Your Judgement and Decision Making is Bad

Understanding how to combat cognitive bias. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number one, with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. So what is this podcast all about? That's the big question. So this is the Underground Podcast, obviously, a little bit different than the regular Jocko Podcast. And in order to listen to it, you gotta be part of the movement, part of the Jocko Underground movement, which you can join by going to JacoUnderground.com. And why are we doing this? Why are we making this separate podcast? Well, there's a few reasons why we're doing it.

• 0:44Jocko Willink?

  We talked about it on the last Jocko Podcast, where we covered the linguistics of the book 1984, and also some of the things that happened in the book 1984. But, look, we want Jocko Podcast to stay Jocko Podcast. And it will. But, at the same time, we gotta remember that there is censorship happening in the world right now.

• 1:13Jocko Willink?

  Social media companies are doing it. Traditional media companies are doing it. Doing it. All these different platforms are doing it. Podcast platforms are doing it. And we've been fine.

• 1:26Jocko Willink?

  But, there's absolutely a risk because these other platforms have control.

• 1:32Jocko Willink?

  In fact, the word "deplatform" is a word. And people get "deplatformed." And it would be ignorant of us, for us, to not have some kind of contingency plan in case things get crazy. And I don't anticipate them getting crazy. But, you know, you don't go into combat hoping things get crazy. You go into combat prepared for contingencies. So, that's what we're doing. And, another, so that's reason number one. We don't want to have someone else in control of our fate.

• 2:07Jocko Willink?

  The other thing is, we don't wanna, we don't wanna have sponsors.

• 2:12Jocko Willink?

  And listen, we all know that we absolutely do talk about products that we make, products that we use, and products that we own. But what's, what's different there is that means we can't be held hostage by someone saying, "We'll cut off your funding." Right?

• 2:32Jocko Willink?

  Cause we don't wanna be held hostage, so that's why we don't take other sponsors.

• 2:37Jocko Willink?

  And so, that's what this is. The, we, we started this Jocko Underground as a contingency in case things fall apart and it's costing some money to get set up, we have to invest in it, which is fine. Another reason is,

• 2:52Jocko Willink?

  is to get some kind of, to, to strengthen the connections with people that are out there that are really in the game.

• 3:03Jocko Willink?

  And in the beginning, it was pretty easy. But now, we get overwhelmed with questions and topics and books to cover and there's, there's, there's too much to sort through, literally. We can't sort through it all.

• 3:17Jocko Willink?

  So, this is a way to sort of weed out some of people that are just throwing spaghetti at the wall. You ever heard that expression before? Yes. Yeah. Throw some spaghetti at a wall and, and see what sticks. Well, we're gonna screen some of that spaghetti so that we can actually get the good stuff. And, and, and listen, as I said, Jocko Podcast is, it's...

• 3:43Jocko Willink?

  I wanna keep it pure. Is that the right word? Pure? Yeah, I think so. I always think when someone puts on the Jocko Podcast, they wanna put on their headset, they wanna put on their earphones, and they're, they're ready for that thing. And I want that thing to be there, and I want it to

• 4:05Jocko Willink?

  continue to have that

• 4:09Jocko Willink?

  essence.

• 4:11Jocko Willink?

  But I also wanna do other things, and I wanna talk about other topics and tangential subjects. Because a lot of tangential subjects that I see in the world, they help me understand things. And when you know the way broadly, you see it in all things. Sometimes I wanna talk about some of those other things, things like psychology and sociology and philosophy and things that help me understand life.

• 4:36Jocko Willink?

  And leadership and human nature even better. And even though I'm not a

• 4:41Jocko Willink?

  I'm not a sociologist, obviously, I'm not a psychologist, obviously, but I'm also not a historian either. And I talk about history all the time. So I think we're okay to talk about these subjects.

• 4:55Jocko Willink?

  And also, these podcasts might be longer or shorter. They might be more scripted or less scripted. They might be more casual or or more formal. I might read less, might read more. I don't really know. But I just want to keep learning myself. I want to keep passing on these lessons. I want to keep exploring.

• 5:16Jocko Willink?

  And in order to do that, you got to have a little bit of leeway. So I think this podcast, the Underground Podcast, will have a little bit more leeway. Move around a little bit.

• 5:28Jocko Willink?

  So if you want to listen to these underground podcasts, you go to Jocko, you go to Jocko Underground dot com. And you subscribe. And it costs money. It costs eight dollars and 18 cents a month.

• 5:45Jocko Willink?

  Which is probably a strange number, you're thinking, but there's layers to it.

• 5:50Jocko Willink?

  Serious layers to that number. If you think you know what it means, let us know. And listen, here's the deal. We also aren't looking to prohibit people from listening.

• 6:02Jocko Willink?

  We we are.

• 6:05Jocko Willink?

  We are, we are of the people and for the people. So if there's someone out there, then you can't afford eight dollars and 18 cents a month. That's fine. If you email assistance at Jocko Underground dot com. We will hook you up for free. But if you can't afford it to kick a little, then that's much appreciated and that keeps us all free.

• 6:30Jocko Willink?

  So that's what we're doing. And with that, we're going to jump into the topic of the day. Is that right? Yes. Topic of the day, cognitive biases. And what's interesting is this is something that we've brushed on numerous times, numerous times on the podcast. And just to, but we never explored it too deeply.

• 6:55Jocko Willink?

  What are cognitive biases? This is the Wikipedia definition.

• 7:00Jocko Willink?

  Which makes it. Legitimate.

• 7:04Jocko Willink?

  Systematic pattern of deviation from the norm or rationality in judgment. So there's, there's little mistakes, little tendencies that we have as human beings that shift our opinion. Or shift our judgment.

• 7:24Jocko Willink?

  They distort our perception a little bit and they can make it harder for us to make good decisions. And that's the key point. And not only can make it hard for us to make good decisions. If you understand them, you could understand that someone that you're dealing with is also perceiving things through these cognitive biases. And so you need to learn how to identify them in yourself and you need to learn how to identify them in other people.

• 7:52Jocko Willink?

  So there's different kinds. Some are, some are belief decision-making and behavioral. Some are social biases. And there's also memory biases, like the way you remember things. There's a, there's a pattern to the way people remember things.

• 8:11Jocko Willink?

  I found a cool list of these things on a, on a website called

• 8:16Jocko Willink?

  thevisualcapitalist.com. It's pretty simple, pretty straightforward, just a list. I just wanted something to sort of as a little guide to talk about these things. I don't think they're in any particular order. But, but they're interesting. And what's interesting about them? It's, have you ever seen the movie Echo Charles? The Sixth Sense? Yes, sir. So what's interesting about the Sixth Sense is it all, when you see it, when you get to the end and you realize what you just watched and it all makes sense. That's kind of the feeling that I get when you read about cognitive biases. Because you go, oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, I see that. I see it now. So it's good, it's good to kind of know the end of the movie in this case.

• 9:00Jocko Willink?

  Let's, let's talk about some of these. Fundamental attribution error. We judge others on their personality or fundamental character, but we judge ourselves on the situation.

• 9:16Jocko Willink?

  Right? And the, the, they give, this is what I liked about this website. They give these nice little examples.

• 9:24Jocko Willink?

  The example is Sally is late to class. She's lazy. You're late to class. It's because you had a bad morning. All right. It's the traffic's whatever, right? And that's very typical. And this is something that you really do need to think about. And this is something people do all the time, all the time. Is, oh, Echo's late. It's because he's lazy. It's because he doesn't time manage very well. But if I'm late, it's because I've got a legitimate excuse. We do that all the time. Yeah. Do that all the time. Horrible habit to get into. Horrible habit to get into. I like to go strong in the other direction.

• 10:07Jocko Willink?

  I go strong in the, I go strong in the opposite direction.

• 10:12Jocko Willink?

  In both cases. So if I'm late, I know that I was lazy and bad. That's my attitude. And if you're late, I figure there's some legitimate problem. Like Every single Every single time. Like, hey, there's something going on. Echo must have a flat tire or whatever. Right? So I go strong in the other direction on both. And I think it's So if you want to continue to listen to this podcast, go to JacoUnderground.com and follow the instructions and subscribe. It does cost money. Eight dollars and 18 cents a month.

• 10:46Jocko Willink?

  And if you can't afford it, email [email protected]. And we will hook you up for free. But either way, your support is appreciated. We'll see you in the underground.