Jocko Underground: The Importance of Your Reputation

The importance of your reputation. Jiu Jitsu private lessons? Starting new business ventures. How to move into a newly desired position at work effectively. Managing the clash of cultures at work. More advice on leading people with more experience than you. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 38, Echo Charles, sitting here with me. Echo Charles. Yes, sir. I'm gonna use your, your situation, let's say, to sort of frame up a conversation, possibly. Maybe we get right through it, maybe we don't, maybe just the topic. But, thinking of reputation, you know, the reputation in the SEAL Team is very important. I, I have fun with your reputation, you know, meaning I kinda have presented a reputation for you, against your will in some cases, of this level of cruising and relaxing,

• 0:45Jocko Willink?

  and maybe not super overly concerned about work, or anything like that.

• 0:52Jocko Willink?

  First of all, has that ever bothered you?

• 0:57Jocko Willink?

  No. No, okay. Second of all, if it did bother you, how would you handle it? And I'm gonna answer that right now. If it bothered you, the way to handle it would be the way you're handling it right now. So, even if it bothered you right now secretly, and you were like, "No, it doesn't bother me", that's the way to handle it. So, this is my advice, right? Keep it up. Yeah, if, if something, if someone's, you know, harassing you about something, or you're, they're doing something, saying something, and you don't like it, the worst thing you could do is let everyone know that you don't like it. This is like lesson day one of the SEAL Teams. If you show that something bothers you, you're gonna, that's gonna stick.

• 1:42Jocko Willink?

  If you don't let it show, that then people will move on, because it gets boring. If I started, if I was making fun of you all the time, actually, the only reason I keep teasing you about this stuff is because it's funny, you laugh, I laugh, we have, you know, we're fun, it's funny. If you weren't laughing, and I was just, then I probably would have moved on to something else to try and harass you out in front, try and find them, some little, some little chink in the armor to get through.

• 2:08Jocko Willink?

  So, reputations.

• 2:11Jocko Willink?

  If someone is in a situation where their reputation isn't what they want it to be, how do you course correct that?

• 2:22Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna say, first of all, You gotta kinda own it. Meaning, hey, the reason I have this reputation is something that I'm doing is earning me this reputation. A lot of times, people think that you, everyone just says that about me. They're against me, they're trying to make me look bad, and what is this? This is the opposite of extreme ownership, we're blaming other people. Which means you're not gonna make any adjustments to whatever it is you're doing that's earning you this reputation in the first place. So, your reputation didn't appear out of thin air. Your reputation actually came from something that you did. Unintentional, intentional, knowing, unknowing, but you did something that, that made people focus on this aspect of you.

• 3:07Jocko Willink?

  And that little aspect is now turned into a reputation. If you deny it, that's not me. No, that's not the right move. We have to actually take ownership of the reputation that we got. And if there's adjustments that need to be made to it, we need to adjust our behavior in order to adjust our reputation.

• 3:29Jocko Willink?

  Reputation is strategic. Meaning, it's a long-term item. It's, you do, you can do things tactically that can help your reputation, that can hurt your reputation. But over time, you have to maintain the long-term, the long game on reputation. You can't, you can't be a slacker, a slacker, a slacker, work hard one day and think your reputation's gonna be good. You can't be angry, temper, emotional, and then one day try and act calm and you think your reputation's gonna be, it doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that.

• 4:12Jocko Willink?

  It's, reputation is a strategic thing that you need to think about.

• 4:17Jocko Willink?

  And you need to act strategic when it comes to how you carry yourself and how it's gonna impact your reputation. That's the way it works. So, if you notice, or you start to, you start to feel like your reputation is not where you want it to be, assess, own it, assess what corrections you need to make. By the way,

• 4:42Jocko Willink?

  I don't recommend radical changes where you know I've been lazy, I've been lazy, I've been lazy. And one day I just come in and start working ultra hard because people don't. I'm not saying you can't do that, but it's going, everyone's gonna kind of feel that. Everyone's gonna kind of be like, oh, it doesn't seem like a lasting thing. It's not, it's a tactical move, but not a strategic move. It's a tactical move, it's not a strategic move. If you say, oh, hey, let me pick up that other shift continually.

• 5:17Jocko Willink?

  You know, let me take this, let me take that extra shift for the long haul. Oh, you got that little project, I can take that thing. You want to go and say, oh, I got the new shift, I got this, I got that. No, it's too much. People don't buy, people don't believe it. It's like a fad diet.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:30Jocko Willink?

  Right? Hey, I, I'm only, I'm, I'm going on the carnivore diet.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Right, I'm a carnivore now.

• 5:36Jocko Willink?

  I'm a carnivore now. It's like, dude, you, you just got done with a freaking, you know, ice cream cake.

• 5:45Jocko Willink?

  No one believes you. No one believes you.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  A whole ice cream?

• 5:48Jocko Willink?

  A whole ice cream. Did you have ice cream cakes growing up?

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Oh, what's ice, is that like an Oreo cookie ice cream cake? Does that, does that count?

• 5:56Jocko Willink?

  I, I don't know, but when I was a kid, it was a thing. Yeah, yeah. You could go to a, I think we got them from Carvel, have you ever heard of Carvel? It was an ice cream kind of store. You could get an ice cream cake, which is basically, which is basically the thing in the shape of an ice cream. Um, the thing in the shape of a cake, but it's ice cream and there's some kind of crust scenario happening.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  You know what? Yes, so here, here's the thing, this is gonna, side note, but it's important, I think, for us. So, two things. First off, when I had COVID, I ate an ice cream cake, a Reese's, I think. It was like a peanut butter ice cream. Yeah, that's what I thought.

• 6:30Jocko Willink?

  But you couldn't taste or smell.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  I couldn't, this is before I knew I had COVID, by the way, it was for Thanksgiving. So I'm eating it, I'm like, this is very under freaking like overwhelming, underwhelming cake. This under delivered, this is not a good ice cream cake from what it looks like, right? Cause it didn't taste good, it tastes sweet, but that was it. I couldn't taste the peanut butter, you know, what I've come to expect. And so whatever. So that's how I remember. Okay. Ice cream cake. That's an ice cream cake. But when I think about it, there's yeah, there's, there's okay. So there's a place on Kauai called Keokes Paradise. I recommend anyone who goes to Kauai, straight up, go to Keokes, south side.

• 7:04Jocko Willink?

  Ice cream shop?

• 7:05Speaker 01

  What? Nope. Dinner place, dinner place.

• 7:07Jocko Willink?

  Oh, dinner place.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Nice dinner place. They got live music and stuff. Sometimes like the Hawaiian music stuff. Really good, really good spot. This is what my wife does. Actually, I shouldn't tell, I shouldn't tell this secret, but this is what she does. When we plan a trip, let's say it's like a few months in advance, she'll call Keokes and make a reservation for every night, us being there. That way you're guaranteed to have a reservation. And then if we, if we plan not to go, she'll call and cancel it on the day of her day before.

• 7:31Jocko Willink?

  How hard is it to get a reservation?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Well, right now it's very hard.

• 7:34Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  So you, yeah, you, you kind of can't if you're like, you're on Kauai, let's go tomorrow or whatever. You can't really get one anymore. Either way, side note. So they're, one of their desserts that you can get is called a hula pie. And it's an ice cream cake.

• 7:48Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  And it's like this high.

• 7:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Meaning it's one foot tall. For those of you people that are just listening.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  It's very high. Yes. And then you could tell it's part of a big, huge cake that you get one slice, but it's for the whole table. It's not a one person gig.

• 8:03Jocko Willink?

  Depending on who you are.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. You're correct. You're right. But it, uh, that is a good, good ice cream cake. It's called the hula pie though.

• 8:10Jocko Willink?

  Okay. So if we're.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  You're the one who brought up the ice cream cake.

• 8:15Jocko Willink?

  No, no, it's a good point. Like you said, I think, like you said, you thought this was important. Apparently it is. So one minute I'm eating a hula pie, like legit, think about this, you and me, we're in Hawaii. Every day we're going to.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Ke- Keokes.

• 8:28Jocko Willink?

  Every day we're going to Keokes. I'm getting a, a hula pie on the daily. And then one day I wake up and I go, hey, I'm a carnivore.

• 8:39Jocko Willink?

  What is your level of belief in my scenario?

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Okay. I believe in what I see.

• 8:43Jocko Willink?

  It's not high.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, very low, very low.

• 8:45Jocko Willink?

  In fact, it's kind of, it's almost disrespectful.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:49Jocko Willink?

  For me to even say that to you.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:51Jocko Willink?

  It's almost like I'm just a liar.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Yes, right. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

• 8:55Jocko Willink?

  It's almost like this is just not believable.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:58Jocko Willink?

  So we have to think about that same thing. So it ends up being important, the hula pie ends up being important. Because if we're eating hula pies, and then all of a sudden we're saying we're carnivore, it doesn't work.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:09Jocko Willink?

  If we are lazy and all of a sudden we're trying to act like we're the hard worker, it's not going to work either. It's not going to work overnight. Now, look, if I tell you I'm a carnivore and then, you know, we go out for dinner that night and you're like, hey, you're gonna get the hulapai? And I go, no, man, I'm gonna get chicken wings.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:25Jocko Willink?

  You know, cuz I'm a carnivore now. And you go, okay. You might have a little bit more belief, but it's not gonna change overnight.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:32Jocko Willink?

  So it's the same thing with your reputation. Your reputation is not gonna change overnight. It's gonna take time, it's gonna take effort, it's gonna take strategic thinking. You're gonna have to, you're gonna also have to think about what you do tactically. This is, you, you, you hear me talk about how a tactical mistake can have a strategic impact. Right? So Abu Ghraib prison, these guys and girls, these men and women, I guess they're not kids, but these men and women that put these, put these insurgents and terrorists and suspected terrorists into these body positions and took pictures and all the stuff that they did with them. All that stuff that they did with them in Abu Ghraib. Look, that's a tactical situation. They're in a prison.

• 10:16Jocko Willink?

  It's not, it's not a strategic move to do that. They weren't, they weren't trying to say win the war with these, by stacking these guys and stripping them naked and putting a dog leash. That wasn't good, that, that wasn't a strategic move. But it had a strategic impact, a negative strategic impact. So it's the same thing with our reputation. If you make dumb tactical moves, that might not seem like a big deal to you. You might kinda shrug your shoulders and say, whatever. Oh, it doesn't matter if I just cut this corner right now. But if that little corner that you cut, some people, you know what's a big one? Like dishonesty, right? If you're dishonest about something that you don't really.

• 10:59Jocko Willink?

  That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you wanna continue to listen.

• 11:08Jocko Willink?

  Go to JacoUnderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors and we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen

• 11:53Jocko Willink?

  this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So, thank you. It's JacoUnderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.