Jocko Underground: "I Want No One Else to Succeed." Untold Stories of Competition from Jocko and Dave Berke.

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number three, with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. And joining us as the first guest ever on the Jocko Underground Podcast is, believe it or not, Dave Berke. Good deal, Dave. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. Good evening, Dave. So if you're new to the Jocko Underground Podcast, this is a podcast that complements the regular Jocko Podcast. It's available if you join the Jocko Underground, which you can do by going to jacoundground.com. Look, we're doing this for a few reasons. First off, most important, the Jocko Podcast will remain as it is.

• 0:44Jocko Willink?

  That is free and available to the world. That's the goal. We always want it to be free and available to as many people as possible. That's what we're doing. But we do have to be ready for some contingencies. There is censorship happening right now in the world, right? From social media companies to traditional media companies. Everything's at risk. Could podcast platforms be at risk? Yes, they could. So we have to do a little contingency planning. Look, we've been fine, but there is risk. The platforms have control and they can deplatform, right? Which is a scary thing. And we've seen it happen. Sometimes deservedly so, but that's a big question and debate is who gets to decide

• 1:29Jocko Willink?

  who deserves or not, right? So we don't like that. So we gotta have a contingency. We would be fools not to have a contingency plan in case something like that happened. Also, we don't want to have sponsors other than things that we make and we use and we own. That's what we talk about. So I guess you have to put up with those at the end of the Jaco Podcast because we're going to talk about some of that stuff. But that means we have control over those things, which means no one else has control over us. No one can say, "We're not going to pay you your sponsorship money if you talk about that." Yeah. We're not playing that game. So the other thing is, we also want to have a better, closer connections with some of the people that are really in the game.

• 2:15Jocko Willink?

  Cause when we started this out, we were able to kind of respond to everybody that reached out and that we pretty quickly, maybe after a year, we couldn't really, there's just too much, maybe six months, I forget how long it was, but it just became overwhelming and that would have been both of ours, full-time job, we'd sit there and respond to things and find questions to answer. So this Jaco Underground.com kind of narrows that out a little bit, because if you join, then we know you're a little bit more in the game and it, so that's what we're doing. So anyways, what's the topic of the day? Let's get to it. Topic of the day. We just recorded a podcast on the Marine Corps Field Manual.

• 2:58Jocko Willink?

  The Marine Corps Field Manual, which is called Competing. Now, that's why Dave's getting to be the first guest, or getting, getting or being roped into being the first guest. So there's a, there's a movie, There Will Be Blood. Have you ever seen this movie?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15Jocko Willink?

  Have you ever seen it, Echo Charles?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Right, no.

• 3:17Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Wait, There Will Be Blood?

• 3:19Jocko Willink?

  There Will Be Blood.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, uh, what's his name?

• 3:21Jocko Willink?

  Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:23Jocko Willink?

  So, Daniel Day-Lewis, he plays an oil man, right? And he's kind of a ruthless oil man. And he just runs things and ruthless businessman and doesn't care and makes things happen, takes advantage of situations and it's, but it's a great movie. There's one part in that movie where he's talking to his brother, which is actually not really his brother, which you find out in the movie. Spoiler alert, sorry, too late. He's talking to a guy that's an imposter. Is it, do you still have to say spoiler alert if you're talking about a movie that's 20 years old? Or are you clear hot?

• 3:59Speaker 01

  It's considerate to say spoiler.

• 4:01Jocko Willink?

  Okay, spoiler alert.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Usually before you spoil it.

• 4:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, okay.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Cause it alerts people, you're about to spoil the thing.

• 4:10Jocko Willink?

  So he's talking to someone that is his brother, allegedly. Anyways, he says this line, he says, he says, "I've, I have a competition in me. I want no one else to succeed. I hate most people."

• 4:33Jocko Willink?

  And the brother replies, he says, "That part of me is gone, working and not succeeding. All my failures have left me where I just don't care." And then Daniel, which is the character that's played by Daniel Day-Lewis, says, "Well, if it's in me, it's in you." Meaning, "I'm your brother. And if it's in me, this level of competition, if it's in me, it's in you." And then he says, "There's times where I look at people and I see nothing worth liking." So he's obviously like a, not a nice guy. But that, I remember the first time I saw that line. "I have a competition in me. I want no one else to succeed." I remember kind of

• 5:11Jocko Willink?

  sort of relating to that statement a little bit.

• 5:15Jocko Willink?

  And I still, I still kinda do. Because I have this strange like competitive thing inside of me that is very hard to subdue. And I know, I've said this to Echelon Front sometimes, I've been like, "Hey, you know why I'm up at 4 o'clock in the morning? Because I can't stop thinking about what we need to do to win." That's what I'm doing, that's what I'm thinking about.

• 5:44Jocko Willink?

  So,

• 5:46Jocko Willink?

  you know, and we started talking about this a little bit on the podcast, but Dave, I know that competition was inherent in your old job. What, how has competition evolved for you? How much of that, when you hear, when you hear, you know, "I have a competition in me. I want no one else to succeed." Did you ever think that? Do you still think that? Where's it at for you?

• 6:12Dave Berke?

  Guess we're coming right out of the gate here.

• 6:14Jocko Willink?

  Hey, this is the underground, man.

• 6:15Dave Berke?

  Totally, man. So,

• 6:18Dave Berke?

  100%. And I guess the evolution question can come back in a minute, where has that evolved? I absolutely, I absolutely understand that. And I couldn't tell you when in my life, but definitely younger, definitely in a less mature place than I am now. Some natural sense of

• 6:36Dave Berke?

  Not just hating to lose, hating to lose, hating to be outdone by other people. Just even at a young age, like I understand that comment. Now, that character, that is a, that, that character is a, at a unique level that I don't think I've ever gotten to. But yeah, I mean, of course I understand that. And I think there's an inherent thing of, for me, like the competition with myself is I hated not being good at stuff. I hated failing at things. I hated not being able to do things that I thought I should be able to do. And then if other people were able to do it, it bothered me, drove me nuts. There is an absolute inherent competition in my previous job. Anybody in the military, I think, has that Top Gun. I don't know if it's any different than anywhere else, but it's definitely there, a Top Gun, for sure. But when you talk about the evolution of that.

• 7:24Dave Berke?

  And I, I'm not implying that I didn't know that before, but that was, that was the first place that I really understood that the competition there, which is there. Because what we were trying to do was so important outside of the organization is the first real time in my military experience where I was part of a unit or a squadron or, or a, a place that whose real responsibility was outside. You know, all through training, when you get into a fighter squadron, you kind of feel like your squadron is the center of the universe. And what you do for your squadron is for your squadron. And at Top Gun, what you're doing is actually for everybody else. So that competition, I think the maturity of me kind of moving past wanting other people to, to be successful or not wanting them to be successful.

• 8:05Dave Berke?

  Top Gun breeds a lot of competition, but it's always geared towards making you better so you can be better for other people. And that I think helps with the evolution. Whatever DNA, whatever gene is in there of what he said, there's, that's inside me and has been forever. He, he's a unique character and obviously they, they portray him in that way as a ruthless guy. And I know the movie and I remember it vividly and what he go, the lengths he goes to. But that sentence, that saying, I understand that.

• 8:33Jocko Willink?

  There's a, there's a weird thing when I saw this movie for the first time.

• 8:38Jocko Willink?

  He, I, I, I really, I was totally into the movie. And then towards the end of the movie, or at the end of the movie, I, I just didn't get it. Because he ends up this alcoholic guy that's kind of acting like an idiot and he ends up doing, he's just, it just, and I said to myself, I remember watching it going, wait a second. No one that's that much of a control freak that likes to win that much, would ever go down this path where they just lose control and they become an alcoholic. I, I have to admit, and I don't, I don't, I don't remember when that movie came out, but I... So if you want to continue to listen to this podcast, go to JacoUnderground.com and follow the instructions and subscribe. It does cost money, $8.18 a month.

• 9:21Jocko Willink?

  And if you can't afford it, email [email protected] and we will hook you up for free. But either way, your support is appreciated. We'll see you in the underground.