Jocko Underground: How You Can Read Someone's Body Language to See What They're Really Thinking

Talking about body language. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number eight, with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:08Jocko Willink?

  Topic of the day is body language. And I, there's a bunch of great resources about this. There's an online college called Fremont College, and they had a really kind of nice, I was looking more of just an outline of things to talk about, they had a pretty simplistic one.

• 0:28Jocko Willink?

  So, as we know, so that's kind of what I used for, for talking through this.

• 0:36Jocko Willink?

  Body language constitutes more than 60% of what we communicate. That's what they said. I've heard it say 70%. Have you heard that, 70? I've heard 70%, I think Sarah Armstrong told me, 70%. From eye behavior, direction that you point your feet, all these different things reveal what you're, what you're really thinking. And we, as people, benefit by being able to read this language a little bit more clearly. Look, you get, we all naturally get the, we get the vibe, right? To use a parlance, a modern parlance, my kids talk about the vibe a lot. I can get the vibe if you, if Echo's standing there with his arms crossed.

• 1:22Jocko Willink?

  I might get the vibe that maybe he's not hearing what I'm saying. But it's, it's a lot better to go a little bit beyond the vibe and actually be able to interpret a little bit more directly what some of these things tend to mean. Not guaranteed to mean, because you could have your arms crossed just because you're cold.

• 1:40Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:41Jocko Willink?

  But they also could be an indicator. So, here's a couple of things we're going to go through.

• 1:47Jocko Willink?

  Eye behavior. Eye behavior can be very telling. And again, I'm, I'm taking this from this Fremont College stuff, I'm kind of paraphrasing and reading parts that I think are cool.

• 1:58Jocko Willink?

  When communicating with someone, pay attention to whether he or she makes direct eye contact or looks away.

• 2:05Jocko Willink?

  You hear this one all the time. Inability to make direct eye contact can indicate boredom, disinterest, or even deceit. Meaning, hey, when someone doesn't look at you, that means they could be lying. Again, it's good to know that. It's also good to know that it doesn't necessarily mean that they're lying. It could just mean that they're bored. And I'm one of the worst perpetrators. If someone's not, if I'm not, if I'm bored with what you're saying, I'm not looking at you anymore. I'm looking somewhere else. I'm looking at my phone. I'm looking at the Jiu-Jitsu mat, whatever. Dean went through a phase where when Dean would get, if I didn't like pay attention to him, he would attack me.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 2:49Jocko Willink?

  And it was really a bummer because getting attacked by Dean is a bummer. Especially when you're looking in the other direction because you're bored with what he's saying.

• 2:58Jocko Willink?

  So I had to, I had to train myself to pay attention. It's good training. Good training.

• 3:05Jocko Willink?

  And you know what's weird is I, this is, I don't know if this is good or bad. It's probably bad. Might be good, though. I am, if I don't know you, I'm actually going to pay more attention to you. If, you know, because I'm going to give you the benefit of that, like, hey, I don't really know you. But if I know you, you're my friend, and you're boring me, you're getting no mercy.

• 3:28Jocko Willink?

  Dilated pupils, someone's, someone's eyes get kind of big. That means it's favorable.

• 3:36Jocko Willink?

  You gotta be looking pretty close to see those, those pupils dilate.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Have you ever seen anyone's pupils and noticed them being dilated?

• 3:44Jocko Willink?

  I don't know, but I've seen them. I've seen their eyes open up like, like, and seen their pupils get bigger. Yeah. So I guess I have seen it.

• 3:54Jocko Willink?

  Pupils dilate when cognitive effort increases. So if someone's focused on someone or something they like, their pupils automatically dilate. Maybe that's why you've never noticed it before.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Because they're never dilated?

• 4:07Jocko Willink?

  No one's ever been interested in what you're saying.

• 4:15Jocko Willink?

  Pupil dilation can be difficult to detect. That's probably why, because I know you're very interesting.

• 4:22Jocko Willink?

  Person's blinking rate. Blinking rate increases when people are thinking. When they're more stressed. So they start getting stressed out, they start blinking. Blinking can also indicate lying.

• 4:37Jocko Willink?

  Get that person that's blinking, blinking. Watch your kids.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:41Jocko Willink?

  Kids, kids, kids have no ability to camouflage like when they're lying, you know, they just, they just can't look at you.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:48Jocko Willink?

  So it's good, it's good to use your kids as a guideline.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:53Jocko Willink?

  To start beginning to be able to spot these things.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Unless they're like psycho kids.

• 4:58Jocko Willink?

  Unless they're psycho.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  So they'll be like straight up effortlessly, almost enjoying the lying or something like that. If, yeah, it seems like some kids would be like that. Wow, that blinking one. For whatever reason, I pay attention to blinking all the time, not in any kind of judgment or nothing, but.

• 5:15Jocko Willink?

  You're aware.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, big time. So where it came from was when I first started making videos and, and. Interviewing people, not for the interview part of it, but for the editing part of it. So when you edit. And you want to convey a certain like emotion or whatever, and they're saying something awesome. And then they're, if they're blinking, it ruins the whole clip.

• 5:36Jocko Willink?

  Interesting.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  So, and this is where it would, um, this is where it would reveal itself a lot of the time, not all the time. Is at the end, you know, like, and you do a really good job on this. I have no idea why, but fucking you do. The, at the end, once you say something cool. Right? And it's done, you're done talking. You will just look and keep looking directly into the camera and not blink. Right? And you'll keep looking, right? So a normal person would be like, boom, I'm done. So not only will I blink, but I'll like relax my body, I'll look away, I'll do whatever. I'm done with the take. I said what I said, but you have that trailing moment of a good two, three seconds, which is a long ass time, by the way, for that, in that context. Where you'll just look and keep that same look on your face or whatever, without blinking.

• 6:22Jocko Willink?

  I'm comfortable with silence.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yes, that's.

• 6:24Jocko Willink?

  Which I think is what it is, because also when I answer a question, I, when I get done, I'll just stop. And I don't feel the need to continue.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:33Jocko Willink?

  Explaining or talking or. I also don't mind just silence if I'm thinking. If you ask me a question or I'm trying to formulate an answer, I'm trying to tell you something and convey a message. And I get to a point where I'm not sure where I'm going to go.

• 6:50Jocko Willink?

  I don't just fill that space with um or ah or any of those things. I'm good with it just being quiet.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that that makes sense to me. That seems to be the case now that you kind of explain it.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  But when someone does start blinking, it can tell a whole different story, not necessarily like actually what they're saying, but maybe if they're saying one thing, they it can indicate that they're feeling, at the very least, feeling a way different thing, for example. And also, you know, when I, like I said, I first started being really aware of it when I started making videos with people, like interviewing, right? And then I started editing it and trying to make it into some dramatic promotion or whatever. And then I started noticing it on actual movies. So like certain good actors will use blinking in their performance to indicate all these different things and they'll do it effectively like Denzel Washington does really good.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Like when he's like stressed or whatever, he'll use blinking when he's like, whatever. And if you start to pay attention to that, it's like that added detail with acting anyway. It's that added detail that really adds like this. You feel it more, you know?

• 8:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's weird because you feel it, even though you don't know it's happening. Like until now, now you're gonna watch and be like, oh, I see Denzel. He's blinking. He's stressed and that's working.

• 8:16Jocko Willink?

  So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen,

• 8:26Jocko Willink?

  go to jacoodunderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this. We're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you.

• 8:58Jocko Willink?

  More control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us.

• 9:04Jocko Willink?

  And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So, thank you. It's JacoUnderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us,

• 9:24Jocko Willink?

  we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.