Jocko Underground: How to Rebuild The Bridges You Burnt With Your In-Laws

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast number 152, sitting here with Echo Charles, who sometimes thinks he needs to make his statements.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  I'm doing the best I can up here.

• 0:14Jocko Willink?

  You are very, your attitude in that whole exchange?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Which one?

• 0:19Jocko Willink?

  The one we just had before you hit record.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 0:24Jocko Willink?

  You really thought you were right. Hey, if I don't know, this is just an hint for future reference.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Sure, what's the hint?

• 0:31Jocko Willink?

  If I don't know I'm right, I don't, I don't, I won't even like remotely imply that I'm right.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:37Jocko Willink?

  So if I'm like, no, it's this, and you say, well, you're gonna be wrong.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  First of all, I didn't say, well, and I didn't say it like that either.

• 0:45Jocko Willink?

  Hundred percent, hundred percent.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  I see what you're saying, and look, look, my attitude was off, you're correct about that, but can an attitude just exist? It doesn't have to be right or wrong, see what I'm saying? What I was saying was wrong.

• 0:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and your attitude is wrong as well.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  My attitude was off, it's incongruent for sure.

• 1:03Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Alright, nonetheless, we got to the bottom of it, and hey, here we are. So.

• 1:08Jocko Willink?

  Yep. There's no more question on that subject matter, but we got some questions from the people. Alright, let's hear what we got.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Yes. Okay, so first question. I recently started dating a woman my age, and I've had the opportunity to get to know her family, including her grandmother and her mother, 46 years old. I've stayed at their house a few times and have developed a relationship with them. Unfortunately, her family has fallen on hard times. While I'm not in a position to fully support them financially, I've tried to help by covering small bills when I can. Her mother is understandably under significant stress, and I've witnessed occasional outbursts involving yelling, screaming, name-calling, and other erratic behavior. My girlfriend mentioned that bipolar disorder runs in the family, but I'm not a psychiatrist. Recently, I didn't send my girlfriend forty dollars for the clothes that her mother wanted

• 1:57Speaker 01

  her to have for a new job. My girlfriend herself didn't want the clothes. This triggered one of her mother's outbursts, and she called me disrespectful, a bad boyfriend, and more. My ego got the better of me, and instead of staying calm, I made the mistake of attempting to quote-unquote "put her in her place."

• 2:13Jocko Willink?

  How'd that work out for you?

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Uh, her mother later sent me a text that I interpreted as a partial apology. Rather than leaving it there, I responded with a lengthy message stating things like, "I'm not gonna tolerate that behavior, and respect is earned, not given, so you should check yourself if you want respect." My response was disrespectful and inappropriate, and she understandably took offense. I'm no longer allowed to stay at her house. Fuss word. I deeply care about my girlfriend and recognize that maintaining a positive relationship with her mother is crucial for long-term success in our relationship. I failed to detach from the situation, then my emotions take over and made a poor decision in the heat of the moment. How do I fix this?

• 2:57Jocko Willink?

  If possible. Well, I hope that you already fully apologized and took ownership of the situation. That would be the best first move. I maybe even write a letter, like an apology letter. Sorry. Maybe some flowers, you know, something like that, if you're really trying to patch things up a little bit. And then it's just going into the relationship-building 101, right? Trust, listen, respect, influence, and care. That means, you know, you're taking care of their daughter, you're listening to what, you know, "Sorry, hope I won't come over," treating them with respect. Um, this is not gonna clean up easy. This isn't like, "Oh, god, yeah, just tell her to give her the old one-two-three combo."

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:37Jocko Willink?

  You know, flowers, apology, and, uh, you know, a bottle of wine, and everything will be good to go. It's not gonna work like that, dude. The mother-in-law's gonna hold she might even hold a grudge indefinitely, by the way. So keep that in mind. So, if you do that, if you just are respectful and listen to what she has to say, and, you know, treat her with respect, like, just all those things, over time, you might...

• 4:04Jocko Willink?

  Be able to rebuild somewhat of a relationship. And I say might, a little emphasis on might, because it sounds like there's some level of irrational behavior in this scenario.

• 4:17Jocko Willink?

  And irrational people do irrational things, and it's very difficult to rationalize with irrational people.

• 4:26Jocko Willink?

  Irrational people aren't thinking about the conflict. They're not thinking like we think. They're not thinking like a normal person.

• 4:32Jocko Willink?

  Like she, because you did that, you're a hateful person that's gonna beat their daughter. It's irrational thought, but this is the kind of thought that she's gonna have, and there's nothing you can do to change her mind. That is possible.

• 4:47Jocko Willink?

  So, just, just, this is gonna be rough. You know what I mean? And, and it sounds like a volatile family, like a volatile family situation, which is, you know, just use caution there. Be prepared to have to detach often. And by the way, it sounds like you had a really hard time detaching. I mean, when you have time to

• 5:12Jocko Willink?

  reply to a text and you take the time to write the text and you didn't detach enough not to recognize what a bad situation you're gonna put yourself in. That, that sucks, because you're gonna be having to do this all the time with a volatile family like this, that's sort of having hard times and has people that are bipolar in it, like this is chaos. You're gonna have to be a pillar of calmness and rational behavior, and even that's not gonna work at least 50% of the time, because you've, you know, you're in a family that's chaotic and irrational. So you're gonna have to not get wrapped up in the mayhem.

• 5:49Jocko Willink?

  Cannot get wrapped up in the mayhem.

• 5:54Jocko Willink?

  And, you know, listen, family is part of the calculus when it comes to relationships, man. You ever heard the thing like, oh, she comes from a good family?

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. Comes from a good family.

• 6:06Jocko Willink?

  So that's usually considered to be a positive thing.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Usually, yeah.

• 6:10Jocko Willink?

  Right? No one's like, oh, yeah, my, my, my wife comes from a broken family with a bunch of drug addicts and they're super stoked about it. You know?

• 6:18Speaker 01

  No, they're not.

• 6:21Jocko Willink?

  Now, I'm not saying it comes from a perfect family. And by the way, there's people that come from terrible backgrounds that are the most awesome people. And there's people that come from awesome backgrounds that are terrible people, right?

• 6:35Jocko Willink?

  Like, you know, there's a wealthy family with the mother and father intact and they're all great and they're lovey dovey and they go to church every Sunday and their freaking kid is a psycho, right? That happens. There's also the alcoholic dad that's totally abusive and crazy and the, you know, what, it's just total mayhem and the kid is 100% squared away.

• 6:59Jocko Willink?

  So that totally happens, but you need to think about that. Think about like, what are you seeing? What are you seeing in this scenario? Is the, is the daughter like, yeah, my, my mom will never be like her? Or does she emulate her behavior? You need to pay attention to those things. Because, you know, when you, if this is a long-term thing, you're getting married, you're marrying the whole family.

• 7:27Jocko Willink?

  You're marrying the whole family. Now, you can marry the, you can, you can marry the family, but keep the family out of it. That's possible. Might not go over too well, but just think about it, man. Just think about it.

• 7:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's what I got, man. It's gonna take time. You, you messed up.

• 7:47Jocko Willink?

  I'm not a miracle worker.

• 7:50Jocko Willink?

  You know what I mean?

• 7:51Speaker 01

  I know what you mean.

• 7:52Jocko Willink?

  Like, this is not, this is not an easy to save situation. A bipolar irrational mom that you pissed off, it's not gonna go over well. And by the way, you pissed them off in like a written way. Like a documented way. Like, they'll go back and read through that. Remember when you told me this? Like, you really screwed up.

• 8:14Jocko Willink?

  So even you know it, you say, my response was disrespectful, inappropriate. She took offense. Yep, exactly.

• 8:22Jocko Willink?

  So it's gonna take time, dude, time. Quite a bit of time in my estimation.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Do you?

• 8:30Speaker 01

  When you and your current wife, when you guys were dating, did you meet her parents early on?

• 8:37Jocko Willink?

  I mean, early on, I mean, I met him probably a year into the whole gig, yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually, that's kind of late on, really, late.

• 8:45Jocko Willink?

  Maybe, I mean, they lived in England, I was in America, so it wasn't like we were walking down the street.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, got you. Can you think of off the top of your head, any, not good, but any, we'll say for lack of a better acceptable reason to get into an argument with your mother-in-law or girlfriend's parents?

• 9:07Jocko Willink?

  Maybe if they were physically attacking my, my wife and trying to beat her.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:15Jocko Willink?

  Maybe like a high level of verbal abuse, but even that, even that, when you say, I, I, I wouldn't, obviously, if my wife was being beaten by someone, I would intervene and save her and, you know, handle the situation. But even like a yelling, screaming parent, I'd be like, okay, we can leave now. I would be, conflict would be the lowest form of my response, the least probable form of my response.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:41Jocko Willink?

  My response would be de-escalation and avoid and probably leave. Not storm off, but like, hey, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna head back. We, I have a call from work, I gotta get back early, so we're gonna leave tonight.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  So, perfect then. So that, so a way to determine what to establish terms, we'll say, get into an argument means not de-escalation. Cause de-escalation is literally the opposite of getting into an argument, right? So, in whatever way, right, none, right? I mean, I get, when do you like, because technically, and I'm, I'm here with this guy trying to figure it out, figure it out as well. Thankfully, I've never got into argument, never thought any value in getting any kind of like escalation did argument.

• 10:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, with anyone.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  I can't say with anyone.

• 10:22Jocko Willink?

  I mean, but, but honestly, when's the last time you had an actual argument with someone?

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully. And as an adult, especially after this outfit was established yet, no, no, no.

• 10:32Jocko Willink?

  No, why don't you go, you know what I mean? Like, when's the last time you did that? Like, no, why don't you do it? You know what I mean?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 10:38Jocko Willink?

  Well, I'll tell you what, you know what I mean?

• 10:40Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna tolerate this.

• 10:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  I I

• 10:44Jocko Willink?

  You listen to me. You see what I'm saying? Like this stuff is crazy talk.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Bro, I felt weird just saying it as a hypothetical. So.

• 10:49Jocko Willink?

  I'm not gonna tolerate this.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's kind of like if you just have that consciously to be like, there is no circumstances with very few exceptions in the world to escalate. Or should I say not to not de-escalate the situation?

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Just know that.

• 11:08Jocko Willink?

  We are de-escalating.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  De-escalate a hundred percent, a hundred percent.

• 11:11Jocko Willink?

  A hundred percent.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  No matter how disrespectful, no matter how much you think, uh, what, what did you say? Respect should be earned and.

• 11:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm not gonna tolerate this. Like all this stuff. Yeah. It kind of feels like it.

• 11:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Right? I can't find it.

• 11:24Jocko Willink?

  And what really kind of sucks is this is an opportunity for you to like gain a lot of leadership capital. Because she knew she was wrong and sent a text that was a partial apology, which is like, that's an apology. Look, it might not be well crafted. It might not be fully sincere, but there's some portion. She knew she was wrong. And you have the opportunity to be a bigger man. Take the moral high ground and be like, hey, all understood. Just, you know, I'm, I'm glad it all worked out. Uh, you know. Uh, you're right. You know, like if, if there's anything she needs, you know, I'm, I'm here and those clothes, would she look great in those clothes? And you know what I mean? Whatever the thing is, you can either just take that moral high ground and just be come off like a better person.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Here's actually a tip, which I said a long time ago, but I think it's very important to remember. You can't say you're taking the moral high ground. You can't say I'm being the bigger person. So watch out for that. Cause some people, that's how, right? You know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna take the high ground on this one.

• 12:18Jocko Willink?

  The moral high ground.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  You jammed it up.

• 12:21Jocko Willink?

  That's right up there with calm down. You know what I mean?

• 12:25Speaker 01

  I think you might be right about that.

• 12:27Jocko Willink?

  We're not doing that.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  I do.

• 12:28Jocko Willink?

  We're not praising ourself.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, no, not at all.

• 12:32Jocko Willink?

  At the expense of the other person.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully. Like, yeah, when you're like, I'll take the high ground or I'll be the bigger person. You know what that means?

• 12:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you're the smaller.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  You're the smaller person, by the way, in this scenario. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm trying to get back on your goods. I don't know, Brad. I don't know. Uh, I think personally with the flowers, like, you know, get flowers or whatever. I think that'll have more weight than you might think.

• 12:50Jocko Willink?

  Okay. I thought you were gonna say, I thought you, when you, as soon as you said that. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen. Go to jockounderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have

• 13:29Jocko Willink?

  to be under the control of sponsors and we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.