Jocko Underground: How To End Drama When You're Caught In The Middle.

>Join Jocko Underground< https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe How to end drama when you're caught in the middle. How to get out of a massive slump from injuries from life. What to do if your peers are progressing faster than you. Walking the line between taking the responsibility and allowing others to. Got on the path with great results and now my ego may be out of control. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 196, sitting here with Echo Charles. We have some questions from you all. We will try and provide guidance, recommendations, answers, or at least courses of actions for you to take. We've already been sitting in this room for one hour, not recording, but just listening to Echo talk about the world.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  That was your assessment. Okay, all right. If that was the assessment, that was the assessment.

• 0:25Jocko Willink?

  I feel very caught up on AI now.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  I thought we got to the bottom of a lot of things. There are many levels of courses of actions to be taken and many people who need courses of actions.

• 0:37Jocko Willink?

  You being one of them.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not, I'm no better. I'm not above it.

• 0:40Jocko Willink?

  You and me both.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  All right, well, there you go.

• 0:44Jocko Willink?

  All right.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  And here we go.

• 0:45Jocko Willink?

  Let's get to it.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Okay, first question. I'm looking for guidance on how to handle a sensitive family situation appropriately without destroying relationships. My wife's parents have long had, have long had marital conflict and issues. About a decade ago, her mother had an affair.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Her dad chose to forgive her and stay in the marriage, but it's obvious the issue was never fully resolved and seems to be recurring issue today. Frustratingly, both parents frequently put my wife in the middle of their disputes and share highly inappropriate details about their relationship, including sexual and personal issues. My wife and I are in our 30s. Her parents are hitting their 60s. She, she always tells me how uncomfortable and upsetting this is, but is too kind to firmly set boundaries herself. I believe it's very unhealthy for her to be put in the middle all the time. And I'm unsure whether my role should be to support her in setting boundaries or direct, or to directly address her parents myself

• 1:49Speaker 01

  in a difficult but necessary conversation. What is the most effective and disciplined way to handle this situation while protecting my wife and maintaining respect?

• 2:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's just an unfortunate situation. And, you know, it's just so weird. Like, who's doing this? What is wrong with people, honestly?

• 2:11Jocko Willink?

  It, it, it seems like it might be a good idea if you could be the one that like addresses the parents. I don't necessarily think that that would land very well. I think they'd give you the, you know, she's our daughter and this is our family and that kind of thing. Um, I think she's gonna have to be the one that stops this from occurring herself. And I think she could start if she's a little bit,

• 2:39Jocko Willink?

  what's the word? If she's a little bit cautious about or or nervous about setting boundaries, like hard boundaries, I think she could probably set boundaries without setting boundaries, meaning don't give them what they want. Um, you know, when they start saying this stuff like, hey, I'm, I'm, I'm, this is not my business. Um, my wife is a pro at this, by the way.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:07Jocko Willink?

  Cause my wife is none, doesn't like the drama.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:09Jocko Willink?

  Right? The drama. And, you know, if someone gives a little bit of drama, she'll sort of, you know, okay, and just not talk about it anymore. But if someone's like actively trying to engage her in drama, then she'll, she'll say something like, oh, this is nothing to do with me. She'll, she'll like literally say that. Um, she'll, she'll say, I don't want to be involved in what you're talking about. She just says that to him. And so, and like I said, if someone throws a little drama her way, no big deal. She'll just, you know, uh, be pleasant. Uh, you know, okay. Well, that's, you should kind of won't respond.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  What, like a reflect and diminish kind of?

• 3:45Jocko Willink?

  Even, even less, even, even less of a reflect, just like, uh, you know, if you tell me that you got some drama at your house and I don't want to be involved in it, just like, oh, you know, did you see the football game last night? You know what I mean? Just like, hey.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  So we'd call that pleasant, uh, gray rocking.

• 4:04Jocko Willink?

  Gray rocking.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:05Jocko Willink?

  Pleasant gray rocking?

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Where'd you hear that from? Well, gray rocking is what, I mean, the prescriptive.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Behavior you should demonstrate when a narcissist is trying to manipulate you in one way or another.

• 4:21Jocko Willink?

  So what do you do?

• 4:22Speaker 01

  You just, it's kind of like a reflect and diminish, but it's more of just a diminish. Like you don't give them anything really, you know, but you don't confront them. You don't anti, you're not like butting heads, nothing. You're just, just like I said, like, oh, yeah, yeah, right on. Okay. Yeah. And then you kind of change the subject.

• 4:39Jocko Willink?

  So I think that this dude's wife could definitely do that, you know? What did you gray rocking?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Gray rock.

• 4:46Jocko Willink?

  Gray rocking. I think she could definitely gray rock of, you know? Oh, you won't believe what your dad did last night in the bedroom. Be like, I don't really know, need to know about that. Can you pass me the, you know, mayonnaise for this chicken casserole that we're making? You know what I'm saying? Like, like we're not doing this. Because even when you sit and listen to someone and you become their sounding board, like I don't think, I don't think the daughter even deserves that. Right? She doesn't even deserve that, dude. Leave this poor girl alone.

• 5:15Jocko Willink?

  So then I think she should try that. Try gray, gray rocking or black rocking.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Gray.

• 5:19Jocko Willink?

  So trade gray, try gray rocking and just not giving responses and not engaging in it. And just dismissing like, well, I'm not talking about that. Like, you know, and to your point, like, not like, I'm going to walk away when you say that and show you that I'm mad about it. But just like, you wouldn't believe what your dad did last night in the bedroom. Just be like, hey, can you pass, I don't really know, know about, I don't really want to know about that. Hey, can you pass me the, the, the chicken salad, right? Like just not engage in this stuff, not totally, uh, make them even more mad. But you know, cause then, cause then what would you get? You don't care the way, you know what I mean? So you just gotta kind of, you gotta find that little fine line.

• 6:01Jocko Willink?

  So I think her, I guess it's just really just diminish. Like it's like no reflect, it's sort of absorb and diminish. I guess is what we'd say here. Absorb and diminish, just like take it and be like, oh, that's weird. Hey, can you pass me the chicken salad? Like just let's do that. And then again, like my wife has that one escalation point where if someone really is trying to drag her into it, she'll be like, hey, look, I don't, I don't want to be involved in this. She will literally, I've heard my wife say that to, you know, other people, just like, hey, this has nothing to do with me and I don't want to be involved in it, just straight up. And it's a pretty good, it's a good boundary, but there's also, I think there's enough of a, of a preamble with the gray rocking.

• 6:44Jocko Willink?

  It's like the preamble of great, like if you say something to me and I'm kind of like, hey dude, can you pass me the chicken salad? And then you're like, hey, but no, this is really what happened. I go, hey, can you, I need some more pepper on my chicken salad. Can you pass me that too? And you're like, no, this is really what happened. I go, hey, look dude, this is not my, see, I kind of gave you a preamble of like, hey dude, this is not my thing. And now you crossed it, you pushed me, you pushed me and finally I go, hey dude, it's like when someone's going to fight you and they're like, they're staring at you. And you look at them, they go, what are you looking at? And you're like, hey man, I'm not looking at anything. And then they go, oh, you think you're a tough guy? You think I'm nothing? And then they walk over to you and you're like, hey, listen dude, I'm not looking to have any problems. I'm just here chilling out. Uh, I got no beef with you. Carry on. And the guy's like, oh, you think you can just carry on when you're staring at me like that?

• 7:27Jocko Willink?

  Hey, listen, bro. Now, like you can see where I'm going with this. Eventually the dude's gonna, like he's getting, he's getting like a two piece or a three piece. But he kind of knew, he kind of had it coming, right? And I think that's okay. So I think if that's what she does, she's kind of sets these, these types of boundaries. Number one, by not responding, it's kind of like when you train a dog, to be honest with you, like when your dog is doing something that they want attention, you just cannot give them attention. And that's what both of the mom and dad in this situation, they just want attention. They want to get that little thing going.

• 8:08Jocko Willink?

  And your, your wife cannot give it to them. She has to, she has to absorb and just diminish and just change the subject. And eventually if they keep trying to drag her into it, role play with her, role play with her, some methods for breaking contact, you know? This is none of my business. I don't want to get involved in this. Hey, this is for you to figure out, not me. Hey, I'm, you're a 60 year old married woman or husband. This is your business, not mine. I have my own family. I have my own life. Uh, this is not my, this is not my deal. Or whatever, you know, role play and then. Then she's just gotta kind of hold the line and just not broker. And the thing is, these parents are so manipulative.

• 8:50Jocko Willink?

  Like they, like you said, they're narcissistic weirdos that are trying to get the daughter involved in this freaking crap. That's crazy. Can you imagine? Like, I wouldn't want my kids to know if I had gotten in an argument with my wife about, you know, what we were gonna have for dinner. Much less like what's happening in the bedroom? Like, this is crazy talk. These are weird people. Matter of fact, this husband should be like, let's, I would, I would be trying to create a little bit of like family distancing. Like, how often are they around? Maybe we could create a little bit of like family distancing. Cause this is weird stuff. Like, you're talking about sexual stuff with your parents? That's, seems to me very strange.

• 9:34Jocko Willink?

  So, I think a little bit of role playing, little bit of absorb and diminish gray rocking. Maybe you can look that up and see what that, maybe you can get some more details on that. And then she's gotta hold the line and keep supporting, keep supporting her. I don't think you, I don't think this will escalate to a point where you have to get involved unless it starts to create massive negative impact on you and your family. Which it shouldn't, because I would break contact before. I'd be like, hey, no, we're not going over for dinner that night. Nick, oh, we're actually busy. Sorry, we can't make it. Oh, you know, we actually, you know, I would, I would create a nice gentle amount of distance between this kind of weird, crazy behavior. I don't want my kids around it. I don't want to be around it. I don't want my wife around it.

• 10:17Jocko Willink?

  Families, family, cool. We'll stick by our families, but we don't have, we're not gonna have our families drag us down into weird scenarios. It's not happening.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Check. Agree. The, the two that I've been in the situation in a way, or you know, you're kind of in between, you know, of two people who, who sort of made up, but they still have their issues, you know. So I've been in this situation. And what I found was A, being consistent with the gray rock method.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Um, because if you're not and someone feels like, oh, wait, I can kind of get

• 10:47Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  What I need sometimes.

• 10:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  It's kind of like a little bit of a thing.

• 10:50Jocko Willink?

  Variable reward.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Variable reward. Exactly. Right. So that might be, um, and then another little tactic, which I use is very effective is the look on the bright side tactic. So if they're like, um, oh yeah, can you believe, you know, can you believe your husband or, or your dad did this to me, right? Let's say the mom was saying this. You'd be like, yeah, I know. Um, but yeah, like you forgave him, you know, and so that's such a good thing that you did. You know how you forgave him and you know, you guys stuck it and chose to, uh, you know, make the relationship work. You just get, you keep and you keep that consistent and they'll realize they won't get

• 11:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  What they want.

• 11:23Jocko Willink?

  That's the big thing is you're training like a dog. You're training these two people that they're not going to get the treat from you. And the treat that they're looking for is just in, uh, interaction.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:34Jocko Willink?

  It's sympathy. It's even anger. Like, I can't believe you. It's just, it's, it's all those things and you're not going to, you just have to. That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to Jocko Underground dot com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications

• 12:19Jocko Willink?

  with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's Jocko Underground dot com. It costs eight dollars and 18 cents a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistance at Jocko Underground dot com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.