Jocko Underground: How Are You Treating People?

How do you treat people? Mental preparation. Important advice for time management. Emotional control in high stress situations. Methods to get out of debt. Navigation problems within groups. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 118, sitting here with Echo Charles, and you are the, a good person to discuss this subject with. That is, how to treat other people. But I'm gonna get it very, a little bit more specific than just other people in general. But how to treat people that, let's say, I guess a good way to describe this would be in the service industry. And the reason I say this is because you were a bouncer for many, many years. And I'm sure that you have experienced, how many years were you a bouncer for?

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Seven.

• 0:35Jocko Willink?

  Seven years.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:37Jocko Willink?

  So that's a lot of Friday nights, that's a lot of Saturday nights. What other nights was big down at the bitter end back in the day?

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Friday, Saturday.

• 0:45Jocko Willink?

  Just it?

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

• 0:46Jocko Willink?

  Okay. That's a lot of nights. You did that for seven years. Think about that. It's a lot of experience interacting with other people.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:54Jocko Willink?

  So you got treated well, right? You got treated unwell.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02Jocko Willink?

  Got treated poorly.

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03Jocko Willink?

  Maybe even you were disrespected at some times.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Sure, no doubt about it.

• 1:09Jocko Willink?

  Give me an example of someone that would come in that you'd be like, I'm gonna take care of this person. What, how'd they, how'd they treat you?

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Nicely. And-

• 1:20Jocko Willink?

  Were they over the top? Did they have to slip you a hundo or anything like that?

• 1:23Speaker 01

  They don't have to necessarily, but there are many ways to treat me nicely.

• 1:28Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  As a bouncer, treat a bouncer, or the doorman, whatever you wanna call it, nicely. Um, bribery, yes, works, for sure.

• 1:37Jocko Willink?

  But can bribery cover up being an asshole?

• 1:41Speaker 01

  It can mitigate it, but there's always, it, it makes it kinda weird, for sure. But if they have a, this weird expectation that it will, then no. But if it's like, if they're being a dick, or whatever.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  Whatever. And then they later on say, hey, I was a dick. And then they give you money. Yes, it helps a lot.

• 2:03Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Even compared to if they just say, hey, I'm sorry, even though that helps a lot. But if they say, I'm sorry, and they give you money. Oh, you're flipped.

• 2:10Jocko Willink?

  But what if they're rolling up to the door and they're like, I got four friends. You need to let them in.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17Jocko Willink?

  And they hand you a.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, and that that has happened too. To answer your question, no, no, that does not help. So the kind, yeah, when they come in trying to like essentially love. So what do you call it? So when you sub sub. Whatever. When they they basically position their self as like superior to you.

• 2:33Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  And like right off the bat and real aggressively, and then they throw out money, kind of like, here's your money, kind of thing. Of course, you're gonna let me do whatever I say I want to do, kind of thing. Yes, that is the the step in the wrong direction.

• 2:45Jocko Willink?

  And you say, I'm sorry, sir, that doesn't work here.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. That's exactly what happened.

• 2:50Jocko Willink?

  Now, so so that's the the nice example, or the good example of someone that you're gonna take care of, kind of. Meaning you're gonna be cool to them. If something happens, you kind of be on their side a little bit, right? If there's something goes down. So how are they treating you? What are they doing to you?

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yep, they're being nice. I would say treating you like a person and not just some spiel.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's kind of what it is. Treat you like a person, like trying to kind of like, what do you call level with you, I guess. Well, if they can do a genuine, good job with that, that'll work for sure.

• 3:22Jocko Willink?

  How do you

• 3:25Jocko Willink?

  distinguish between, you ever had someone, there's two things I've been talking about, I was talking to someone about the other day, looking someone in the eyes.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:32Jocko Willink?

  Right? But also saying your name.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:37Jocko Willink?

  Ah, for me, if someone says my name repeatedly. It it seems weird.

• 3:45Jocko Willink?

  It's one of those things, Echo, where when I hear it, I'm not sure why they're doing it. It's, I can't quite figure out why they're doing it. Does that ever happen to you, Echo? Yeah.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  So.

• 3:58Jocko Willink?

  You see what I did? I did it twice.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 4:00Jocko Willink?

  People do that.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, fully. And so, yes.

• 4:03Jocko Willink?

  It's a little awkward.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  I am very familiar with this phenomenon and I did some thinking. So it might, it might be spot on. It feels like it's spot on, but I don't know. You tell me. So when someone's trying to like, when someone's, it depends on their personality, first off, because some people, that's how they talk. Like you get an official talker, like maybe some news dude and you talk to him in real life, like that's how they talk a lot of the time.

• 4:24Jocko Willink?

  Did you ever see Wolf of Wall Street?

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:26Jocko Willink?

  So in Wolf of Wall Street, one of the phone scenes where he's selling, Leonardo DiCaprio is selling something, some penny stock. He says the name. I think it's a little bit too much.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:38Jocko Willink?

  He's like, John, let me tell you, we haven't had seen a stock like this in at least six months, John. I'm telling you, John, this is, he says it like that. And I thought to myself, I get it.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:50Jocko Willink?

  I see what you're doing. And maybe on the phone, maybe it's a little bit different. Maybe a little bit different.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  I think you're right.

• 4:55Jocko Willink?

  Still is awkward to throw someone's name at the end of each sentence. It just, to me, doesn't seem right. I mean, is it the same to you, Echo?

• 5:06Speaker 01

  It is the same, but to throw it in there like one time or like maybe maximum two times, depends. But like, for example, to throw it in one time does help, I think. But at the same time, it, so there's pre and then there's post, right? So like if, then this is just a real general way of putting it where if I'm talking to you, let's say there's this thing where maybe I'm trying to get something from you or convince you of something or whatever, and then you throw in the name, I, I think, oh, I can feel that. But if they don't throw in the name and then afterwards, whether you gave it, whether they got from,

• 5:45Speaker 01

  they got from you what they wanted, or they convinced you of whatever, and then they throw it in once, then it works. It makes you feel better.

• 5:53Jocko Willink?

  Okay. Let me get a little bit more specific.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:56Jocko Willink?

  We're at a bar, or sorry, a restaurant.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 5:59Jocko Willink?

  There's a waitress. Waitress comes over, hi, I'm Beth. I'm here to be server tonight. Okay, cool. Then she walks by and you go, Beth.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:07Jocko Willink?

  You call her by her name.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:10Jocko Willink?

  I would say, excuse me, miss. You know what I mean?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:13Jocko Willink?

  It seems like when someone gives you their name and they're working as a waitress or a waiter.

• 6:21Jocko Willink?

  It seems a little strange to me to be like, hey, David.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:24Jocko Willink?

  Seems weird to me. I don't know.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  You know what? Now that I'm even thinking about it, because yeah, there are all these examples that that are kind of like, wait, that wouldn't work given certain circumstances, but that would work actually really well under other circumstances, same scenario. So if it's almost like this weird wave that you gotta go with like perfectly and when you can land it, bro, you are rolling. But if you do it, if you're off step, like even like a little bit, it'll just work against you. I think, I think so too. Like if someone's.

• 6:55Jocko Willink?

  So give me an example of where it's gonna work.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  You know, like say if it's a waiter, right? Or waitress, right? Instead of, excuse me, as you say, Beth, you don't just bust it out necessarily like, oh, I saw the name tag, so I'm just gonna start calling you Beth or whatever. Let's say you had some genuine questions about the menu or I don't know, something like this. And then it was, it sort of came up naturally like, oh, you know, this bit thing. And you know, you and Beth kind of have a relationship now above and beyond just like, hey, here, take your order, blah, blah, blah. Because if she's just saying the normal stuff she'd say to every single customer, and then you start going above and beyond what the normal customer does, then you're out of step a little bit, just a little bit. So it kind of throws you off. But if you're like, hey, is there a gluten free thing? Oh, what about this? Oh, you know, like, and you're genuinely concerned about the menu now, your relationship gets a little deeper. See what I'm saying?

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Once that depth starts to develop a little bit, then you can throw out, oh, what's your name by the way? Okay, Beth. Okay. Okay, I'm just saying, because you have a little bit more of a relationship that would warrant you calling her something a little bit more personal. That's what it feels like.

• 7:56Jocko Willink?

  I think I might be a little bit hypersensitive about the name thing. I think I might be overly sensitive. I think I might be overly sensitive because to me, like, I wouldn't be surprised if people said, no, it's very, I wouldn't be surprised if a waitress told me, no, we like it when you call. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the consensus and I just didn't know it.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:13Jocko Willink?

  It seems a little bit too personal, though.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  So I liked it as a bouncer, you brought this up. One, because I noticed that shit too. When you, when they're saying your name, you're like.

• 8:22Jocko Willink?

  Did you wear a name tag?

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:24Jocko Willink?

  That said echo on it.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 8:26Jocko Willink?

  It seems a little bit.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Much.

• 8:28Jocko Willink?

  You need to, you need, hold on a second. Echo. You know what I mean? Seems a little weird.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, beforehand. So like. If someone, if the person didn't need anything from me, or if they were leaving or something, and then they said, like, it felt good, it felt good, kinda like.

• 8:46Jocko Willink?

  Okay, see, I was wrong, I am wrong.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  But on the way in, though, if they're like, hey, what's up, Echo, and I'm like, okay, I see what you're doing, Eddie, it's a pitch, it's some kind of a pitch, like on the Wolf of Wall Street, or whatever, like, he's going heavy on the pitch, so it's not as genuine. But if they're saying it and they don't need anything from you, you're kinda like, well, he's just being cool now, at this point, that's what I felt, you know who did that to me, Mario Lopez, you know that is? San Diego guy.

• 9:13Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, the actor guy.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:14Jocko Willink?

  He's an actor, right?

• 9:15Speaker 01

  A.C. Slater.

• 9:15Jocko Willink?

  He's a jujitsu guy, right?

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Jujitsu guy, yeah.

• 9:17Jocko Willink?

  That's how I know him, I don't know him from acting, I know him from the jujitsu.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Well, I know him from everything, A.C. Slater days back in the day.

• 9:23Jocko Willink?

  What was A.C. Slater?

• 9:24Speaker 01

  A.C. Slater was his, um.

• 9:25Jocko Willink?

  He's on a kid's show, right?

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, Saved by the Bell, hell, yeah. So I was at, we're at the bitter end, Mario Lopez rolls in, I was like, oh, hell, he was on an off night, too, it was like a Wednesday or something like this, he came in, he had two guys with him, I checked their ID, of course, I don't check Mario Lopez's ID, even though he had his ID ready, that's how you know someone's cool. He's not like, hey, you should know already, you know?

• 9:46Jocko Willink?

  Do you know who I am?

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:47Jocko Willink?

  Do you know who I am?

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Bro, that's real, too, brother.

• 9:51Jocko Willink?

  Did you ever, that happen, that happen?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 9:54Jocko Willink?

  By, by anyone that's recognizable to normal?

• 9:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 9:59Jocko Willink?

  So there's people that were like, do you know who I am?

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:01Jocko Willink?

  I'm famous in San Diego.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, guys who, like, everyone knows me here, you know, like, I guess, but, um, so he rolled in or whatever, two friends, friends showed the ID or whatever, super nice or whatever, and he's a San Diego guy, so you, you know, you'd expect him to be like, hey, you know who I am? Nope, didn't, right? Everyone knew I liked Saved by the Bell, they played this, this was kind of a big deal at the time, it was like a little prank they played on me, so anyway.

• 10:26Jocko Willink?

  What's the premise of Saved by the Bell? What's it about?

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Just teenage years.

• 10:30Jocko Willink?

  Teenage, high school?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  The struggle, yeah, high school, the struggle.

• 10:33Jocko Willink?

  What's his, is he the main guy?

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Uh, he's kinda the second guy.

• 10:36Jocko Willink?

  Who's the main guy?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Zack Morris, who is Mark Paul Gosler. So he was like the popular main dude and then there's AC Slater who's kind of his rival. But Slater was the athlete who could dance at every he brother this guy could do anything.

• 10:49Jocko Willink?

  Oh, could dance.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  He could dance good. He was an athlete. He played all these wrestler like badass dude. He had big muscles and stuff. Yeah, yeah, he's the man. Anyway, so he goes in, the bartender.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Casey Jones is his name bartender and then one of the waitresses Maggie. They conspire, they tell Mario Lopez, they're like, hey, that guy Echo outside. He's like the massive fan of Saved by the Bell and you and all this stuff.

• 11:15Jocko Willink?

  And that's for real?

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. This was like back in.

• 11:18Jocko Willink?

  When did you watch Saved?

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Like in, you know, high school, stuff like that.

• 11:24Jocko Willink?

  What's it about?

• 11:25Speaker 01

  No, no, no, like college time. Yeah.

• 11:27Jocko Willink?

  What's it about?

• 11:29Speaker 01

  It's like, bruh, it's actually pretty good. It's funny now that you, if you watch it now, it's like kind of whatever. But like in, in, in its day, it's freaking good.

• 11:37Jocko Willink?

  Wait, who would watch it? Was it meant for, I thought Saved by the Bell was for like 12 year olds.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Oh, maybe. I don't know. I watched it as a grown up, straight up. It was freaking fun. Anyway, it was awesome show in my opinion, still is by the way. So they tell him this, hey, that guy's a big fan of Saved by the Bell. Like his name is Echo. He's, you know, whatever. He's a big fan. Just so you know, that's what's going on. So he was like, cool. I didn't know any of this. I was just working. So he was leaving and he kind of had this smile on his face or whatever. And he goes, he goes, hey, Echo, thanks, man. And I was like, man, this guy is the coolest guy probably in the world at this point. Cause he's like this massive star or whatever and he's being cool and he said my name. See what I'm saying?

• 12:18Jocko Willink?

  So it helps.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  It does help on the way out. He didn't say it on the way in.

• 12:21Jocko Willink?

  There's a time for it.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Exactly right.

• 12:23Jocko Willink?

  So being nice to people that are in service roles is going to garner you a lot better treatment.

• 12:34Jocko Willink?

  In that situation, this is the main point that I'm trying to make.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:37Jocko Willink?

  You know, I was going to the airport the other day and I see people getting treated like bad. The service people, bro, I'm not, look, can people be jerks? Yes, they can, but it's also their job. They gotta do the thing. They gotta, can you move your foot out of the aisle? Yeah, I'm sorry about that. You know what I mean? People get so hostile.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Oh, like the flight attendant?

• 12:55Jocko Willink?

  Towards a flight attendant, towards a TSA agent, towards a waiter, towards a waitress, towards, uh, you know, the guy behind the counter at the store, like just be, if you're nicer. Here's what I know. So I used to have to make flights for myself and the Admiral, not the Admiral's aide. And then I have to try and get seats on the planes, like try and get the Admiral a good seat. Right? Try and get an upgrade on Delta.

• 13:20Jocko Willink?

  That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jacood underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors and we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize

• 14:05Jocko Willink?

  to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jacood underground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistance@jacood underground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.