Pod Insights Jocko Podcast Jocko Underground: Alpha Males, Beta Males, Sigma Males, and The Others. Take Charge With No Authority. About this episode Alpha, Beta, Sigma, Delta, Gamma, Omega Males.
Take charge with no authority.
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Dealing with people who are too direct, or even insulting.
Ways and standards to self evaluate.
How to stay on THE PATH but still enjoy alcohol?
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Jocko Willink? This is Jocko Underground Podcast, number 54. Echo Charles, sitting here with me. This is actually, you're, for some reason, you want, you were asking about this, this topic of the day. The topic is Alpha, Beta, Gamma, I think Gamma, Omega, Delta, and Sigma, humans. Male, female. Had you ever heard, I think you mentioned to me, you, you saw online or something, you were reading about the Sigma male. This Sigma is like the new one, right?
0:36 Speaker 01 That's what I thought at the time, yes.
0:37 Jocko Willink? So, I didn't really know too much about the Sigma. Of course, y'all, everyone hears, you know, the Alpha. Everyone hears that. So you just say, hey, what are these things? So I figured we'd look into them a little bit. The term, these terms were almost solely used to describe animals up until the 1990s. So there was, back in the day, they didn't, they didn't use these. And there's a book that came out in 1982 called Chimpanzee Politics, by Franz de Waal, which suggested that maybe some of these categories could be applied to human beings.
1:15 Jocko Willink? And then, in the 1990s, and this is from Wikipedia, so take that for what it's worth. Dove deep on the research, plugged it into Wikipedia, see what we get. 1990s term used to describe, quote, "manly men" that are successful in business. And, and then there's of course, a whole thing about these same terms used to describe females. So, I had heard of Alpha, I had heard of Beta, I hadn't heard of Gamma, I hadn't heard of Omega, I hadn't heard of Delta. And I, you kind of chimed me in on the whole Sigma phenomenon. Do you think the Sigma is, is what people want to be?
2:00 Jocko Willink? Or does everyone just want to be Alpha?
2:02 Speaker 01 I feel like, at the end of the day, you'll go into what each one is, is, I feel like everyone wants to be Alpha, but...
2:11 Jocko Willink? Sigma is like a poor man's, poor man's alpha.
2:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, like, like a poor man, like a, um, like an introvert, you know, alpha is like, he'll take charge, he'll make calls, he'll, he'll talk to anybody, whatever. The sigma is like, he's introverted and shy and stuff. And then so it, he kinda, I don't know, like, kinda embraces that whole thing, kinda like a quiet freaking alpha or something.
2:32 Jocko Willink? So alpha, here's some descriptions. Alpha is supposed to be dominating and charismatic, the born leader, understands his priorities and utilizes, and always utilizing his time. That's the alpha. The beta is modest and easygoing, ideal husband type.
2:50 Jocko Willink? Works a lot, but is overshadowed by, overshadowed by his peers. The gamma is introverted, introverted and super sensitive. I don't think I fall in the category of super sensitive.
3:03 Speaker 01 Super insensitive.
3:05 Jocko Willink? Uh, the yes man at the office is the gamma.
3:10 Jocko Willink? Has big plans, but lacks determination and focus. Gamma.
3:15 Jocko Willink? Next one is omega. There's a movie called Omega Man. I wonder why it's called that?
3:20 Speaker 01 Omega Man?
3:20 Jocko Willink? Yeah. This person is skillful and self-sufficient, the odd one in the, in the wolf pack. Laid back, not chasing success or money.
3:31 Speaker 01 Like the artsy type or something? That's what it sounds like.
3:36 Jocko Willink? Actually, they don't even really talk about that. They don't even talk about like which one of these has some creative aspect to them. As opposed to like the big five, which is open-mindedness and those people tend to be more creative. Next one is delta. Modest and hardworking. Wants attention, but can't get it. Works hard, but unable to draw attention.
4:02 Jocko Willink? And then the Sigma, this is the latest and greatest addition. Super smart and extremely attractive.
4:12 Jocko Willink? The manipulative mastermind. He is super ambitious, ambitious and his own boss. So, there you go, dude. I don't even know, like, do we even need to go any further on these things? Because it's like just, there's some basic kind of personality stereotypes, right? Isn't that basically what they are?
4:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:33 Jocko Willink? Just some basic stereotypes and then that's that.
4:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, and a lot of times too, kind of similar to like a horoscope kind of scenario where, you know, people wanna, I feel like, I don't know, maybe I'm just thinking about this for myself, I don't know. But every once in a while where you like you'll fall into and you wonder, oh, what, what, given these, this category or this, this criteria, like, who am I, right? Then you kind of look at it and if I have a cool name, Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Gamma doesn't sound cool. I don't know why.
5:03 Jocko Willink? Wait, do you think Beta sounds cool?
5:04 Speaker 01 No, Beta doesn't sound cool either. Actually, I had a fish called a Beta.
5:07 Jocko Willink? You know what's funny is you actually have a name Echo.
5:12 Speaker 01 That's gonna be the new.
5:12 Jocko Willink? Kind of in there, huh?
5:13 Speaker 01 The new hot.
5:14 Jocko Willink? He's an Echo male. What does that even mean? Means he presses record?
5:18 Speaker 01 Copycat or something. I don't know, whatever. But Sigma sounds cool, Delta sounds cool, Omega sounds cool. Um, I guess Beta Gamma doesn't sound that cool. That's just my opinion. Alpha, of course.
5:28 Jocko Willink? Okay, so you're just going on name?
5:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, you know, but I'm saying like, hey, I'm a Delta. You know, it's like you, I don't know if this is a natural thing, maybe, maybe not, but you know how like people who are into astrology or whatever, their horoscope, they're like, yeah, I'm a Sagittarius, so therefore I this and that, or you're, he's a Leo, so this and you know, it's, I think some, at some level,
5:50 Jocko Willink? Yep.
5:51 Speaker 01 I don't know. It feels good to be like in a sort of category.
5:55 Jocko Willink? Well, yeah, I mean, that's why like people do their genetic test and they're like, I am a Native American. And they're like point zero or like, I'm Viking or whatever. Like they're, they do that and they're like, kind of,
6:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:06 Jocko Willink? Hey, I'm Scots Irish. I was, you know, a Highlander. Like people, people get into that kind of stuff and.
6:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, I wonder why that, like, maybe it's because, uh, this is just how it stopped you saying it in that voice. Made me kind of think of like, oh yeah, like if, if this came, Alpha, okay, not Alpha, Alpha is like obvious, but let's say Sigma, for example, right? It's like hell yeah, that's a cool name for that kind of person. And then it's like, yeah, I'm a sigma. I'm super smart. I'm extremely attractive. Uh, I'm a mastermind that can be manipulative.
6:36 Jocko Willink? Yeah. Yeah. You know what? You know what? People start to try and fulfill the prophecy, right? A little bit like, oh, I'm an alpha, like I'm one who could dominate this room.
6:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:45 Jocko Willink? And there's no one that's like, hey, I'm going to be more beta. In fact, they're running away from beta. They're like, wait a second, a beta is modest. I'm not going to be that. I'm not going to be a beta. I'm going to be, hey, what's up?
6:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:55 Jocko Willink? Uh, the sigma since I pulled some traits for the sigma male. Says he loves being alone, but he values other people. He's a silent leader. What's interesting about that is I talk a lot about being a silent leader as a goal.
7:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:11 Jocko Willink? Cause if you're doing everything right as a leader, you shouldn't have to say too much and the team's already getting it done.
7:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:16 Jocko Willink? Call that the silent leader. This is a little bit different, but.
7:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, this is more like a personality thing more so than a leading.
7:22 Jocko Willink? Uh, he knows how to adapt to different situations. He treats everyone around. I think this is the selling. They're selling the sigma on this one.
7:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:28 Jocko Willink? Is this, is the sigma male, the person that's not quite alpha, but then they're kind of coming up with their own new thing?
7:33 Speaker 01 That's what it felt like to me. And keep in mind, I didn't read about this. I watched YouTube videos. They kept popping up about the sigma male. And you know, once you click on one, you see.
7:44 Jocko Willink? He treats everyone around him the same way. He doesn't need a social circle to be himself. Yeah, these are all super affirming, right? He understands the importance of silence.
7:57 Jocko Willink? He is morally gray or worse. That's a little bit of a negative, right? He hates living safely. I'm an adventurer. His social skills could use some work. He's incredibly self, well, because this is an all positive, but you know what? That gives a little bit. Let's say you're socially awkward and you're trying to buy into this. You're like, well, you know, I'm kind of, I'm more of a sigma.
8:16 Speaker 01 That's what I thought.
8:17 Jocko Willink? That's why I'm super awkward.
8:18 Speaker 01 Or like, you know how like, okay, so you know, public speaking, for example, or speaking in large groups or whatever. It's like a, an anxiety inducing thing for a lot of people. So that's like, you know, the alpha would never say that, right?
8:30 Jocko Willink? Yeah.
8:32 Speaker 01 But man, sometimes it's like, man, you kind of can't help it. So it's like, hey, instead of just saying I'm an alpha, why don't I just say I'm a sigma?
8:39 Jocko Willink? Yeah.
8:39 Speaker 01 See what I'm saying?
8:40 Jocko Willink? Yeah. Like I.
8:41 Speaker 01 It's like it's on purpose.
8:42 Jocko Willink? I don't like to get involved in front of crowds.
8:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:44 Jocko Willink? I'm not worried about that because I'm incredibly self-aware, which is another thing. And I'm a master of my own fate, which is another thing. And I could be an alpha if I wanted to. That's the last thing it says, he could be an alpha if he wanted. That's what it felt like. It sounds like someone created Sigma recently. I should do a little more research and find out who created Sigma. It's probably some dude that's a little bit shy. That feels a little bit insecure that he knows he can't just say I'm an alpha. So he just made up this other thing over here called the Sigma. The Sigma male.
9:18 Jocko Willink? So like I said, man, as far as I'm concerned, these are just basically a bunch of stereotypes. I don't know how much time we don't want to waste on this, but uh, here's one thing that I will take away from this.
9:29 Jocko Willink? Each one of these things, look, you could, you could have a bunch of these different characteristics as one person and you most likely do, right? You most likely have some of these characteristics from each one of these categories. And I think what the important thing to do is to, and I've talked about this before, know what your tendencies are. Right? So know what your tendencies are. If you know what your tendencies are, if you know that you kind of get pushed over too much, you're like, all right, I know that I have a tendency to say yes too easy. I need to. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen,
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