83: Your Children Are Watching You. How to Stop Making Excuses. Gaining Credibility Once It's Lost. Bad Bosses. Warrior Mentality While Getting Dumped.

0:00:00 - Opening 0:01:14 - A letter from a soldier to his sons from a fox hole in Iwo Jima. 0:09:54 - A letter from a mother to her daughter before her execution in Czechoslovakia. 0:53:29 - Recommended strength and conditioning for BJJ. 1:08:46 - Can you gain credibility back once you've lost it? 1:16:22 - How to lead a team dealing with the loss of a member to suicide. 1:24:14 - How to manage a team with a bad boss without creating division in the team. 1:30:51 - What is the "warrior mentality" when dealing with getting dumped by a significant other. 1:41:11 - False Motivation VS Authentic Leadership. 2:01:25 - How to stop making excuses if you are a "chronic excuse maker". 2:05:02 - Support, Cool Onnit http://www.onnit.com/jocko, JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, with Jocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. http://amzn.to/2szgaEj 2:29:26 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 83 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:10Jocko Willink?

  On the 19th of February 1945, after three days of heavy pre-landing bombardment, which attempted to destroy the heavy fortifications that the Japanese had built. On that day, the 19th of February 1945, American amphibious forces, primarily US Marines of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th Marine Divisions, along with soldiers from the US Army's 147th Infantry Regiment, landed on the island of Iwo Jima.

• 0:58Jocko Willink?

  By the end of the first day, some battalions had a casualty rate of over 80%.

• 1:07Jocko Willink?

  On the morning of 20th February 1945, Marine Corps 1st Lieutenant Isaacs was taking cover in a foxhole about 300 yards from the beach when he was hit by a Japanese mortar strike.

• 1:28Jocko Willink?

  He was severely wounded in his left arm and in his head.

• 1:35Jocko Willink?

  He was evacuated to a hospital ship offshore, which is where he died the next day, on February 21st, 1945.

• 1:50Jocko Willink?

  And it was about two months prior to that, on December 17th, 1945, that 1st Lieutenant Leonard Smith Isaacs had written a letter to his two boys.

• 2:08Jocko Willink?

  Now, I have a lot of people ask me questions about parenting. I got four kids, so people want to know my thoughts on it. People also obviously ask me about war, and they ask me what kind of advice I have for my son.

• 2:29Jocko Willink?

  And I think that First Lieutenant Isaacs answers many

• 2:35Jocko Willink?

  of these questions a lot better than I ever could.

• 2:41Jocko Willink?

  And here's what he told them in that letter.

• 2:47Jocko Willink?

  "December 17th, 1944. My dear little boys,

• 2:54Jocko Willink?

  I'm writing you today, just a week before Christmas Eve, in the hope that you will get this little note at Christmas time.

• 3:04Jocko Willink?

  All of this coming week will be holidays. And I can just imagine the fun you will be having, especially when you know it's just a few days before Santa Claus will be coming.

• 3:16Jocko Willink?

  If it were possible, I would like to come down the chimney myself and crawl right into your stocking. Wouldn't that be a surprise? I would enjoy it even more than you.

• 3:27Jocko Willink?

  But since your dad is far away, and Santa Claus has the only reindeers that will fly through here, I'm afraid we'll have to let Santa Claus use them.

• 3:37Jocko Willink?

  After all, he has so many places to go in such a short time.

• 3:44Jocko Willink?

  I won't be able to give you a Christmas present personally this year.

• 3:49Jocko Willink?

  But I do want you to know that I think of you all the time and feel very proud of the way you have been helping your mother while I'm gone.

• 3:59Jocko Willink?

  I know that it's only natural for young, healthy and strong boys like you are to want to play and have fun all the time.

• 4:08Jocko Willink?

  But I do want you to think about helping Mummy.

• 4:12Jocko Willink?

  Because it is hard for her to do everything while I'm gone.

• 4:17Jocko Willink?

  I know that you would like to give me a Christmas present too. So I will tell you what you can do and this will be your Christmas present to me."

• 4:27Jocko Willink?

  Every day, ask mommy if there are errands that you can do for her. And when there are errands to run, say, "Sure mommy," and then give her a big smile. Then during the day, go up to your room and look around. If there are toys scattered all around, or you left some of your clothes on the floor, pick them up.

• 4:45Jocko Willink?

  Also, when mommy is busy trying to clean up the house, don't leave her by herself. But ask mommy if you can help her take care of baby sister. If you do those things for me, that will be the finest Christmas present that you could give me.

• 5:03Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yes, and Cece, are you eating your meals like a real man now?

• 5:11Jocko Willink?

  Well, my boys, I guess you often wonder why people fight and have wars, and why lots of daddies have to be away this Christmas time at fighting, when it would be much nicer to be at home.

• 5:27Jocko Willink?

  That's a hard question to answer. But you see, some countries like Japan and Germany have people living in them, just like people you and I know.

• 5:37Jocko Willink?

  Those people want to tell everybody what they can do and what they can't do.

• 5:45Jocko Willink?

  No one likes to be told how to live their life. I know that you wouldn't like it if one of the boys in the neighborhood tried to tell you what church you should go to, what school you should go to, and particularly, if that boy would always be trying to beat up some smaller or weaker boy. You wouldn't like it, would you?

• 6:05Jocko Willink?

  And unfortunately, the only way to make a person like that stop these sort of things, or a country like Japan or Germany, is to fight them and beat them. And teach them that being a bully, because after all, that's what they are, is not the way to live, and that we won't put up with it.

• 6:26Jocko Willink?

  What does all of this mean to you? Just simply this, my boys.

• 6:31Jocko Willink?

  Dad doesn't ever want you to be a bully. I want you to always fight against anyone who tries to be one. I want you to always help the smaller fellow, or the little boy who may not be as strong as you. I want you to always share what you have with the other fellow, and above all, my boys, have courage. Have courage to do the things that you think are right.

• 6:56Jocko Willink?

  Never be afraid to fight for what you think is right. To do those things, you need a strong body and a brave heart.

• 7:06Jocko Willink?

  Never run away from someone you may be afraid of. If you do, you will feel ashamed of yourself. And before long, you will find it so easy to run away from the things that you should stand up and fight against.

• 7:21Jocko Willink?

  If you and lots of other boys try to do the things that Dad has been talking about in this letter, it may be that people will not have to fight wars in the years to come.

• 7:33Jocko Willink?

  And then all the daddies in this world will be home for Christmas.

• 7:41Jocko Willink?

  And that is where they belong.

• 7:46Jocko Willink?

  Perhaps some of the things that I have been talking about, you don't quite understand.

• 7:52Jocko Willink?

  If you don't, Mummy will explain them to you.

• 7:58Jocko Willink?

  She knows.

• 8:01Jocko Willink?

  Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

• 8:06Jocko Willink?

  God bless you. Daddy.

• 8:20Jocko Willink?

  And obviously,

• 8:24Jocko Willink?

  many brave Americans stood and fought for what they believed in on that

• 8:31Jocko Willink?

  tiny island of Iwo Jima.

• 8:37Jocko Willink?

  And they suffered massive losses to gain that victory.

• 8:44Jocko Willink?

  Over the course of that five-week battle, nineteen thousand two hundred and seventeen were wounded.

• 8:54Jocko Willink?

  Six thousand eight hundred and twenty-one were killed.

• 9:04Jocko Willink?

  And First Lieutenant Leonard Smith Isaacs

• 9:10Jocko Willink?

  Marine

• 9:13Jocko Willink?

  Husband

• 9:16Jocko Willink?

  Father

• 9:19Jocko Willink?

  Daddy

• 9:24Jocko Willink?

  Was buried at sea

• 9:31Jocko Willink?

  Thirty-four years old

• 9:46Jocko Willink?

  Reading that

• 9:48Jocko Willink?

  Letter made me think about another letter I had read From another parent

• 9:56Jocko Willink?

  And it's another letter that I find to be Just an incredible guide to not only to parenting but to living

• 10:08Jocko Willink?

  And this one was written not by a father

• 10:13Jocko Willink?

  But by a mother And it's not a letter to a son but to a daughter

• 10:21Jocko Willink?

  And the daughter's name was Jana

• 10:25Jocko Willink?

  And the mother's name was Dr. Mialda Horakova

• 10:32Jocko Willink?

  And she wrote the letter From prison

• 10:38Jocko Willink?

  While she was on trial for treason and for conspiracy On trial by the Soviet-backed Communist government of Czechoslovakia After they had taken control of the country In a coup

• 10:58Jocko Willink?

  And she and her fellow so-called conspirators were jailed And tortured and then put through a grandiose show trial

• 11:14Jocko Willink?

  And she knew.

• 11:18Jocko Willink?

  She knew that she was going to be made an example of.

• 11:26Jocko Willink?

  She knew.

• 11:29Jocko Willink?

  She was facing death.

• 11:35Jocko Willink?

  And the night before her execution.

• 11:41Jocko Willink?

  She wrote a letter to her daughter.

• 11:48Jocko Willink?

  Who was sixteen at the time, and this is some of what she wrote.

• 11:58Jocko Willink?

  "My only little girl, Jana.

• 12:02Jocko Willink?

  God blessed my life as a woman with you. As your father wrote in the poem from German prison, "God gave you to us because he loved us.

• 12:18Jocko Willink?

  Apart from your father's magic, amazing love, you were the greatest gift I received from fate.

• 12:28Jocko Willink?

  However, providence planned my life in such a way that I could not give you nearly all that my mind and heart had prepared for you.

• 12:38Jocko Willink?

  The reason was not that I loved you little. I love you just as purely and fervently as other mothers love their children. But I understood that my task here in the world was to do you good by seeing to it that life becomes better. And that all children can live well.

• 13:03Jocko Willink?

  And therefore, we often had to be apart for a long time.

• 13:09Jocko Willink?

  It is now already for the second time that fate has torn us apart."

• 13:21Jocko Willink?

  Don't be frightened and sad because I am not coming back anymore.

• 13:29Jocko Willink?

  Learn, my child, to look at life early as a serious matter.

• 13:37Jocko Willink?

  Life is hard. It does not pamper anybody, and for every time it strokes you, it gives you ten blows.

• 13:47Jocko Willink?

  Become accustomed to that soon. But don't let it defeat you.

• 13:54Jocko Willink?

  Decide to fight. Have courage and clear goals and you will win over life.

• 14:03Jocko Willink?

  Much is still unclear to your young mind and I don't have time left to explain to you things you would still like to ask me.

• 14:13Jocko Willink?

  One day when you grow up, you will wonder and wonder why your mother, who loved you and whose greatest gift you were, managed her life so strangely.

• 14:24Jocko Willink?

  Perhaps then you will find the right solution to this problem, perhaps a better one than I could give you today myself.

• 14:35Jocko Willink?

  Of course, you will not only be able to solve it correctly and truthfully by knowing very, very much, not only from books but from people.

• 14:46Jocko Willink?

  Learn from everybody, no matter how unimportant.

• 14:53Jocko Willink?

  Go through the world with open eyes. And listen not only to your own pains and interests, but also to the pains, interests, and longings of others.

• 15:08Jocko Willink?

  Don't ever think of anything as none of your business. No, everything must interest you, and you should reflect about everything, compare and compose individual phenomena.

• 15:22Jocko Willink?

  Man doesn't live in the world alone.

• 15:26Jocko Willink?

  In that, there is great happiness, but also a tremendous responsibility.

• 15:34Jocko Willink?

  That obligation is first of all in not being and acting exclusive, but rather merging with the needs and the goals of others.

• 15:44Jocko Willink?

  This does not mean to be lost in the multitude, but it is to know that I am part of all and to bring one's best into that community.

• 15:56Jocko Willink?

  If you do that, you will succeed in contributing to the common goals of human society.

• 16:04Jocko Willink?

  Be more aware of one principle than I have been. Approach everything in life constructively. Beware of unnecessary negation. I'm not saying all negation, because I believe that one should resist evil. But in order to be a truly positive person in all circumstances, one has to learn how to distinguish real gold from tinsel.

• 16:32Jocko Willink?

  It is hard, because tinsel sometimes glitters so dazzlingly.

• 16:38Jocko Willink?

  I confess, my child, that often in my life, I was dazzled by glitter.

• 16:45Jocko Willink?

  And sometimes, it even shone so falsely, that one dropped pure gold from one's hand and reached for or ran after false gold.

• 16:58Jocko Willink?

  You know that to organize one's scales of values means to know not only oneself well, but to be in firm in the analysis of one's character. But also to know others, to know as much as possible of the world, its past, its present, and future.

• 17:24Jocko Willink?

  In short, to understand.

• 17:29Jocko Willink?

  Not to close one's ears before anything and for no reason. Not even to shut out the thoughts and opinions of anybody who stepped on my toes, or even wounded me deeply.

• 17:41Jocko Willink?

  Examine. Think.

• 17:46Jocko Willink?

  Criticize. Yes, mainly criticize yourself.

• 17:54Jocko Willink?

  Don't be ashamed to admit a truth you have come to realize, even though you proclaimed the opposite a little while ago.

• 18:06Jocko Willink?

  Don't become obstinate about your opinions.

• 18:13Jocko Willink?

  But when you come to consider something right, then be so definite that you can fight then die for it.

• 18:22Jocko Willink?

  As Walker said, "Death is not bad."

• 18:27Jocko Willink?

  Just avoid gradual dying, which is what happens when one suddenly finds oneself apart from the real life of others.

• 18:36Jocko Willink?

  You have to put down your roots where fate has determined for you to live. You have to find your own way. Look for it independently. Don't let anything turn you away from it. Not even the memory of your mother and father.

• 18:50Jocko Willink?

  If you really love them, you won't hurt them by seeing them critically.

• 18:56Jocko Willink?

  Just don't go on a road which is wrong, dishonest, and does not harmonize with life.

• 19:04Jocko Willink?

  "I have changed my mind many times, rearranged many values, but what was left as an essential value, without which I cannot imagine my life, is the freedom of my conscience."

• 19:23Jocko Willink?

  "I would like you, my little girl, to think about whether I was right."

• 19:32Jocko Willink?

  Another value is work.

• 19:36Jocko Willink?

  I don't know which to assign the first place and which the second. Learn to love work. Any work, but one you have to really, to know really and thoroughly. Then don't be afraid of anything and things will turn out well for you.

• 19:54Jocko Willink?

  And don't forget about love in your life. I'm not only thinking of the red blossom which one day will bloom in your heart and you, if fate favors you, will find a similar one in the heart of another person with whose road yours will merge. I'm thinking of love without which one cannot live happily.

• 20:17Jocko Willink?

  And don't ever crumble love. Learn to give it whole and really.

• 20:24Jocko Willink?

  And learn to love precisely those who encourage love so little.

• 20:32Jocko Willink?

  My little girl Jana, when you will be choosing for whom your maiden heart shall burn and to whom to really give yourself, remember your father.

• 20:46Jocko Willink?

  I don't know if you will meet with such luck as I. I don't know if you will meet such a beautiful human being, but choose your ideal close to him.

• 20:59Jocko Willink?

  Perhaps you, my little one, have already begun to understand and now perhaps you understand to the point of pain what we have lost in him. What I find hardest to bear is that I am also guilty of that loss.

• 21:17Jocko Willink?

  I've heard from my legal representative that you are doing well in school and that you want to continue. I was very pleased. But even if you would one day have to leave school and work for your livelihood, don't stop learning and studying. If you really want to, you will reach your goal. I would have liked for you to become a medical doctor. You remember that we talked about it. Of course, you will decide yourself and circumstances will too.

• 21:52Jocko Willink?

  But if you stand one day in the traditional alma mater and carry home from graduation, not only your doctor's diploma, but also the real ability to bring people relief as a doctor, then, my little girl, your mother will be immensely pleased.

• 22:13Jocko Willink?

  But your mother would only be truly happy, no matter where you stand. Whether at the operating table, at the lathe, at your child's cradle, or at the work table in your household.

• 22:30Jocko Willink?

  If you will do your work skillfully, honestly, happily, and with your whole being,

• 22:38Jocko Willink?

  then you will be successful in it.

• 22:43Jocko Willink?

  Don't be demanding in life, but have high goals.

• 22:51Jocko Willink?

  They are not exclusive of each other. For what I call demanding are those selfish notions and needs. Restrict them from yourself.

• 23:05Jocko Willink?

  Realize that in view of the disaster and sorrow which happened to you, Vera, Pepe, grandmother and grandfather, and many others will try to give you what they have and what they cannot afford.

• 23:20Jocko Willink?

  You should not only not ask for it, but learn to be modest. If you become used to it, you will not be unhappy because of material things you don't have.

• 23:33Jocko Willink?

  You don't know how free one feels if one trains oneself in modesty.

• 23:40Jocko Willink?

  How he or she gets a head start over against the feeble. And by how much one is safer and stronger.

• 23:51Jocko Willink?

  I really tried this out on myself, and if you can thus double your strength, you can set yourself courageous, high goals.

• 24:03Jocko Willink?

  Read much and study languages. You will thereby broaden your life and multiply its content.

• 24:12Jocko Willink?

  There was a time in my life when I read voraciously. And then again, times when work did not permit me to take a single book in my hand apart from professional literature.

• 24:23Jocko Willink?

  That was a shame.

• 24:26Jocko Willink?

  Here in recent months, I've been reading a lot, even books which probably would not interest me outside.

• 24:33Jocko Willink?

  But it is a big, important task to read everything valuable, or at least, much that is. I shall write down for you at the end of this letter what I have read in recent months.

• 24:46Jocko Willink?

  I'm sure you will think of me when you will be reading it.

• 24:52Jocko Willink?

  And now also, something for your body.

• 24:56Jocko Willink?

  I am glad that you are engaged in sports. Just do it systematically. I think that there should be rhythmic exercises, and if you have time also, some good systematic gymnastics. And those quarter-hours every morning.

• 25:16Jocko Willink?

  Believe me, finally, that it would save you a lot of annoyance about unfavorable proportions of your waist if you could really do it.

• 25:25Jocko Willink?

  It is also good for the training of your will and perseverance.

• 25:35Jocko Willink?

  Your photograph showed me your new hairdo. It looks good, but isn't it a shame to hide your nice forehead? And that lady in the ball gown, really, you look lovely. But your mother's eye noticed one fault, which may be due to the way you were placed on the photograph. Wasn't the neck opening a little deep for your sixteen years?

• 25:58Jocko Willink?

  Don't primp.

• 26:01Jocko Willink?

  But whenever possible, dress carefully and neatly.

• 26:11Jocko Willink?

  Jana, please take good care of grandfather and grandmother.

• 26:17Jocko Willink?

  Their old hearts now need the most consolation.

• 26:22Jocko Willink?

  Visit them often and let them tell you about your father's and mother's youth, so that you can preserve it in your mind for your children.

• 26:33Jocko Willink?

  In that way, an individual becomes immortal, and we shall continue in you and the others of your blood.

• 26:44Jocko Willink?

  And one more thing, music. I believe you will show your gratitude to grandfather for the piano which he gave you by practicing honestly, and that you will succeed in what Pepek wants so much in accompanying him when he plays the violin or the viola.

• 27:04Jocko Willink?

  Please do him that favor. I know that it would mean a lot to him, and it would be beautiful.

• 27:12Jocko Willink?

  And when you can play well together, play me the "Aria" from Martha. "My rose, you bloom alone there on the hillside, and then sleep, my little prince," by Mozart.

• 27:27Jocko Willink?

  And then your father's favorite, "Under Your Window," by Chopin.

• 27:34Jocko Willink?

  You'll play it for me, won't you?

• 27:38Jocko Willink?

  I shall always be listening to you.

• 27:44Jocko Willink?

  Just one more thing. Choose your friends carefully. Among other things, one is also very much determined by the people with whom one associates. Associates. Therefore, choose very carefully. Be careful in everything, and listen to the opinions of others about your girlfriends without being told.

• 28:09Jocko Willink?

  I shall never forget your charming letter, "Today I can tell you which you once in the evening pinned to my pillow to apologize when I caught you for the first time at the gate in the company of a girl and a boy." You explained to me at that time why it is necessary to have a gang.

• 28:29Jocko Willink?

  Have your gang, little girl, but of good and clean young people. And compete with each other in everything good.

• 28:40Jocko Willink?

  Only, please, don't confuse young people's springtime infatuation with real love. Do you understand me? If you don't, Aunt Vera will help you explain what I meant.

• 28:58Jocko Willink?

  And so, my only young daughter, little girl, Jana,

• 29:06Jocko Willink?

  new life,

• 29:09Jocko Willink?

  my hope,

• 29:12Jocko Willink?

  my future forgiveness,

• 29:16Jocko Willink?

  live.

• 29:19Jocko Willink?

  Grasp life with both hands.

• 29:23Jocko Willink?

  Until my last breath, I shall pray for your happiness, my dear child.

• 29:34Jocko Willink?

  I kiss your hair, eyes, and mouth.

• 29:41Jocko Willink?

  I stroke you and hold you in my arms.

• 29:47Jocko Willink?

  I shall always be with you.

• 30:04Jocko Willink?

  And the next day, despite

• 30:09Jocko Willink?

  international outcry, Milada Horakova

• 30:15Jocko Willink?

  was executed

• 30:19Jocko Willink?

  at Prague's Pankrac Prison.

• 30:34Jocko Willink?

  And again, there's just so much to be

• 30:39Jocko Willink?

  learned

• 30:43Jocko Willink?

  from those letters and as parents

• 30:50Jocko Willink?

  there's so much for us to teach and I think the thing that

• 30:55Jocko Willink?

  hits me is that these are all things that we know

• 31:01Jocko Willink?

  we know them, we know to take care of our health, we know to wake up and exercise, we know we should choose our friends carefully we know we should be our own worst critics

• 31:16Jocko Willink?

  and we know that if we have been wrong about something, we should simply admit that and move our minds to what is right and what is correct, we know we should work hard and help people

• 31:36Jocko Willink?

  we know the value of freedom

• 31:43Jocko Willink?

  and we know that freedom must be fought for

• 31:47Jocko Willink?

  and we know that we should be brave and that that is possible only through a strong body, mind and heart and we know all those things, we know them

• 32:05Jocko Willink?

  now

• 32:08Jocko Willink?

  teach them

• 32:13Jocko Willink?

  teach them and live them

• 32:23Jocko Willink?

  set the right example by living them

• 32:28Jocko Willink?

  because

• 32:31Jocko Willink?

  our children are watching

• 32:40Jocko Willink?

  They're watching and I know actually you I think you have to do more than just set the example.

• 32:50Jocko Willink?

  I think you actually have to to tell them.

• 32:55Jocko Willink?

  Think you actually have to tell them and you think about the power of these letters.

• 33:02Jocko Willink?

  The power of these words, but it's also a real challenge with kids with your own children. It's a challenge because there's a whole crazy parental child psychology that's going on here. Right? You got the rebellion.

• 33:20Jocko Willink?

  Or the trying to please you or the competing for attention or the I can't do anything good enough. You got all these psychological things that are going on with your kids and it's hard. It's it's can be very hard just to be straight with your kids about stuff. It can be hard not to micromanage them. That's one of the hardest things because you know so well. All these things that we just talked about, you know them and you know that they're the best things for your kids. And yet, if you push them too intensely,

• 33:55Jocko Willink?

  they're going to push back. Or they're going to push, they're going to head in a different direction because you pushed them there.

• 34:04Jocko Willink?

  But I I do think that there's some real value in taking the time to explain what you've learned, the mistakes that you've made. And I think it's key not to so much focus on telling them how to live. I think this is the key is not so much focus on telling them how to live.

• 34:26Jocko Willink?

  But telling them how you have lived, the mistakes that you've made and how you try to live.

• 34:35Jocko Willink?

  So that maybe they can learn from some of the mistakes that you've made without

• 34:47Jocko Willink?

  having to learn from life itself. Which.

• 34:55Jocko Willink?

  Sometimes life is a much more brutal teacher. In fact, most of the time. And if you have to learn from life, sometimes you don't win.

• 35:09Jocko Willink?

  Harsh.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:15Jocko Willink?

  Parenting is challenging.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Part that I thought, think is very important.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  The most important, maybe, is when you said our children are watching. So you know, remember the old saying, do what I say, not what I do.

• 35:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  That doesn't work.

• 35:41Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Because you tell someone, hey, don't, don't, I don't know. Don't smoke. Don't, don't, don't try cigarettes. Meanwhile, you smoke. They're gonna be like, okay, don't try cigarettes, you know, whatever. You know, they're, they're always what, like, every day, all day, every day, they're watching to see, how do I act? I don't know how to, I'm a kid, I don't know how to act. I don't know what to do in this whole... You know how like when you walk into a party of someone you don't know? And maybe it's a really nice party or something. And maybe it's a different culture or something like that. You're looking around, what do I act? Are we taking off our shoes right here? Okay, we're taking off our shoes. Okay, are we, are we, are we eating now? Are we waiting for a prayer or something? Like, what do we do? What do we, you're constantly looking on how to act now. Kids, that's their whole life.

• 36:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  How do I act? I don't know how to act. So of course, you're there the whole time. You've got things figured, figured out. You've got a car, you've got a house, you're providing my food. You're gonna show me how to act. So you start saying, hey, don't smoke. Meanwhile, 100% of the time, you're acting in a way that allows for smoking.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  And be like, okay, we're smoking.

• 36:50Jocko Willink?

  And by the way, it's the same exact thing from a leadership perspective.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:54Jocko Willink?

  The way you act as a leader, it's not, I mean, you're not going to have people that are as moldable as a kid is. But there's no doubt, if the way you act as leaders, the way your team is going to act, there's no, that's a hundred percent.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:07Jocko Willink?

  And if you act like a clown, your team is going to act like clowns. If you take your job seriously, your, your team is going to take your job seriously. If you're very well balanced in between those two, where you, you take your job seriously, but you still have a good time with doing it. Your, your team is going to follow you with that as well. I remember when I was a new guy in a SEAL platoon, I would be watching those, my leaders all the time and taking, you know, when they didn't do something, when they didn't hold the line, when they were late or didn't bring the right piece of gear, it was just.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:38Jocko Willink?

  You just look at them and shake your head. Now I wanted to perform, but what that meant to other people was like, see? Doesn't matter if we really performed that well. Look, the boss doesn't even perform well.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:47Jocko Willink?

  So you're setting that example. Yeah. Your, your subordinates are watching.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Everybody's watching. That's the thing. You know how people will be like, you know, hey, I'm the type of person that does this, you know, I really, and everyone knows, Brad, no, you're not. We've been watching you the, the whole time I've known you kind of thing. So yeah, especially like the boss too, even, even, I mean, you get all kinds of different people, right? In a, in a work environment. So you, you're like driven, it comes from yourself. You're like really self like motivated and stuff.

• 38:14Jocko Willink?

  Pretty much.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:15Jocko Willink?

  Kind of.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  So let's say, even if you have a bunch of self motivated people, they're still watching you like, so if you're like kind of the leader and you're like, hey, you know, we're, we're punctual people, we get our work done early, like we're this guy. And then meanwhile, you're coming in late or whatever. The boss is coming in late. And he's slacking, you can tell he's slacking, he's passing like his job off, you know, onto others and that, and that kind of stuff. At the very least, they're going to look at you and not have the respect that I think you should have as a, as a boss or whatever.

• 38:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  The very least, and that's if you have self motivated people. But otherwise, the normal situation, I, man, I remember feeling that all the time where it's like, Brad, I'm not going to listen to this guy, man.

• 38:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, man, it's, you know, what's interesting too is just think about.

• 39:05Jocko Willink?

  And I know we've done other letters from parents, especially from parents that are, you know, headed for death, or at least a high probability of death. But what would you say to your kids if you knew you were heading there? And is it not worth telling them that at some point while you're alive? And you can, you can say, hey, look, if, you know, I'm alive to tell you this stuff, this is what I want you to know. Again, now what's crazy is even with that, you have, you can't override your kids with, act this way. You can't do that. You gotta approach it. You gotta flank them. You gotta flank them.

• 39:46Jocko Willink?

  You got, I gotta flank my kids. My kid, you know, they're not, I think the classic example is my son. He's good at jujitsu, right? He's been training jujitsu for 10 years, right? He's 14. He's been, been training his whole life, right?

• 40:03Jocko Willink?

  But he's, he's not as good at jujitsu as I am.

• 40:07Jocko Willink?

  I mean, he's just not because he's been training for 10. I've been training for 20 something. So you can beat him? I can beat him. Yes, yes. But, but check it out. What's funny is I'm his dad. So when I tell him, hey, son, move your hips over here. Dude, you don't need to do that. I'm thinking to myself, you've gotta be kidding me. You've gotta be kidding me. That is the client. To me, that's the ultimate example of your kids are not going to listen to you. They're programmed. They're programmed to reject you at some point. They have to move on, right? That's the way the species works. If they just continue to take from you and they don't reject you at some point and get away from you,

• 40:49Jocko Willink?

  then you didn't do a good job as a parent because now they're relying on you. So, but that comes a little price. The price is the rebellion, right? The rebellion's gonna come and it's, you know, you can, you can identify it. You know, my youngest, it's so nice. You know, you tell her something and she's just got the big eyes and she wants to help and wants to please and wants to do and, and understands. And I'll tell you something else. There's another end of the spectrum too, because my oldest daughter. She went through the rebellion. She's already through that. And she got through it pretty quickly. To where she would like, look at me and think to him, think, you could see it in her eyes. That she's thinking, he knows what he's talking about and I'm gonna listen to what he's saying. Now, it does, it's probably like a 50%.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:33Jocko Willink?

  It's not, it's not 100%. I'm not just dialing in 100% victory on telling her what to do. Cause otherwise, what's sad about that. This is what's horrible about that. If you could get a child to actually do everything that you wanted them to do. They would dominate in life. Right? Cause you would just say, okay, I want you to study hard. I want you to work out. I want you to do everything that I'm not doing. Cause I'm lazy and I fell short of my own goals. You'd have them do all that stuff. They're not gonna do it. So you gotta flank them. You gotta figure, you also gotta figure out which ones are important. Right? Which ones are really important? Don't waste your leadership capital.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:11Jocko Willink?

  On, you know, getting your kids to dress a certain way. Right? That's one, parents will spend all kinds of leadership capital on getting their kids to dress a certain way. And the reality is, you mean, obviously you gotta, you gotta maintain some standard of decency.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 42:31Jocko Willink?

  And cleanliness.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  That's another lead by example situation.

• 42:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. My daughters went through a little phase of wearing the short, really short

• 42:45Jocko Willink?

  jeans, or not, not jeans, but shorts.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:48Jocko Willink?

  I was like, okay, cool. I was walking around one day at my house. I had like a pair of workout shorts on or whatever. I just pulled them right up.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and was just walking around. How do I look? Hey, if we're gonna show off, let's just show it off. Hey, I got a little something too. I do squats. Check me out. The girl's collapsed in agony.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:07Jocko Willink?

  Dad, stop. Dad, stop. No, that's disgusting. Hey, if we're showing off butts, let's show them off. Like I said, I'm over here on the squat rack.

• 43:20Jocko Willink?

  Let's sport it. Got it flaunt it. You apparently are flaunting it. So let's all flaunt it. Let's go into town. Who's coming with me?

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Nah, nah, man.

• 43:27Jocko Willink?

  But you can only spend so much leadership capital on getting these minor corrections made. What you want to make sure is that they have good morals and values. So go out in town. They know where to draw the line on doing stuff that's good or not good.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:43Jocko Willink?

  You know, somebody asked me a question on Twitter. I didn't actually answer it fully, but you know, he's like, hey, you seem to be really black and white about good or evil. But I think there's a lot of shades of gray in there and I totally agree, of course. I mean, there's, there's massive amounts of shades of gray in good and evil.

• 44:00Jocko Willink?

  And then at some point you get to evil.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:03Jocko Willink?

  That you go from like, hey, this is bad to evil and you go from, you know, hey, that's pretty nice to good.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:09Jocko Willink?

  Those, those are things that exist.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:11Jocko Willink?

  And you want to keep your kids, you know, out of the evil.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:16Jocko Willink?

  Right? And if you waste all your leadership capital trying to push them from doing okay into good and doing the best and you're gonna wear, you're gonna wear it all out, in my opinion. If there's some parents that have done a better job than me, that's awesome. And they were able to just to keep their kid 5.0 in every category across the board for their whole existence without the kid turning into a crazy, you know, rebel. Cause that's what happens to some kids that get pushed that hard.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I think that whole, again, that whole leading by example thing, man, is like, as long as you're consistent and you lead by example, they can see, you know, they'll see the benefits play out right in front of their face.

• 44:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  But man, these, again, you can't, you can't be like, hey, clean your room. Meanwhile, the rest of the house, including your room is messy. And I tell you to clean your room all the time. You never do it. No. How's this? So one of my friends, uh, one of my best friends, named Scotty Lewis. He's a cop, by the way, you know, on the big island. So this guy would, um, he was never my roommate, but you know, I'd go to his house a lot of time and he was real like client clean, super clean guy. And he'd get kind of mad, not mad, but just uncomfortable when things are dirty, you know? So, you know, if he has a roommate or something like that. And I remember thinking dang bro Scotty you're real sensitive about that whole thing you know

• 45:41Speaker 01

  being clean and they're like for real clean clean a clean clean not a clean freak necessarily but almost

• 45:46Jocko Willink?

  Borderline

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Borderline yes so um and just from knowing him and stuff I I knew that his parents they would like you know clean his room and stuff like that not all the time or nothing like that but they were involved in in cleaning and stuff so it kinda went opposite to what I thought you know how like if your parents tell if you got taught to clean your room from a young age and you had to do it the whole time

• 46:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah

• 46:12Speaker 01

  I always thought that yeah that that would carry over when you're out of the house and you go to college you go live on your own that you'd clean your room all the time I thought that that was kinda it but I started to hypothesize that that's not it this is what it is if your parents provide in an environment of extreme cleanliness whether you do it or they do it or both or whatever but the environment is consistently clean when you leave that environment that's will be that'll be what you're used to

• 46:39Jocko Willink?

  Interesting

• 46:39Speaker 01

  so it'll mess with you if it's not and that's and sure enough we went to the big island you know cruise with him and we go to his house and it's like a museum just spotless clean not his his parents house and I remember thinking like yeah that my little theory I think is correct

• 46:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah

• 46:58Speaker 01

  like if you're used to

• 46:59Jocko Willink?

  So wait did his parents help him clean or not?

• 47:02Speaker 01

  Yes fully so here and here's the thing about

• 47:04Jocko Willink?

  Because because you could also get the kid that the parents are neat freaks and the kid rebels and just becomes a slob

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah so and yeah maybe and I'm sure there's all kinds of circumstances that maybe do that I'm sure but I mean generally speaking the environment that you get used to functioning in

• 47:20Jocko Willink?

  Also there's people there's parents that are slobs that the kids are very neat and orderly because they don't like that

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yeah Yeah, I mean, maybe. And again, these are all, you know, I'm sure there's so many. I've never encountered that.

• 47:32Jocko Willink?

  Well, my, I think the key is here, what you can't do is just try and push them like crazy. You just have to guide them in what is correct. And what you have to really show is like the benefits.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:44Jocko Willink?

  Of why it's good to keep things in order.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:47Jocko Willink?

  You know, if you're gonna spend an hour looking for your car keys, just think of your productivity at that point. It's nil.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 47:57Jocko Willink?

  So you gotta watch out for that.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, but yeah, that was my little hypothesis. I think it's true, though, because think about like, think about just the environment of the the consistent environment that you kinda, that someone will come from. They always, in a way, sort of for lack of a better term, create recreate that environment or try to when they leave. So like, you know how like kids, they come from a chaotic, people yell all the time. They're gonna probably yell a lot. Or let's say they don't yell. Let's say they never swear, right? Like, I grew up in a household and they don't swear. And swearing's like not that good. When they go out, they won't just start swearing. They'll, they'll be sensitive to swearing. That's how, you know?

• 48:33Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  So I think that again, if if the environment is provided consistently, I think that's, that's gonna have a big.

• 48:40Jocko Willink?

  Consistency goes a long way.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Oh, I think it's the number one thing.

• 48:44Jocko Willink?

  Sarah Armstrong always says that.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree with her thousand million percent.

• 48:47Jocko Willink?

  Be consistent.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Right, even like small little things like, uh, for my daughter, for example, it's, the, the routine is, when it's time to go to bed, it's brush teeth, we do stories and questions, which is like just, you know, some stories that I made up. And then questions, like basically a quiz, it's like rudimentary education, like solar system stuff. And you make it like a game show quiz.

• 49:10Jocko Willink?

  Nice.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  So it's fun. And then bedtime, that's it, then sleep. Hundred percent, no deviation unless we're out.

• 49:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but that's how you roll.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  That's the routine, consistent. So now you, I don't get any pushback. And my daughter is a pushback master. In that, the, the consistent stuff, she just knows, she just go, you can be playing.

• 49:32Jocko Willink?

  She's, she's got a little spark to her.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:35Jocko Willink?

  Actually, she's got a lot of spark to her.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, got it from mom.

• 49:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's just a ton, you know, I, as I was going through these, I don't remember where I let, read the, um, you know, I don't remember where I had read this letter for the first time from Milata Horakova, but there's so much.

• 49:57Jocko Willink?

  Good stuff in there. Choose your friends carefully. I mean, just like, just when she's kicking it off. You know, life is hard. It does not pamper anybody. That's a good thing for kids to understand.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:11Jocko Willink?

  You know, welcome to life. It's gonna be hard. Get accustomed to it, but don't let it defeat you. Boom.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  The changing of your opinion one was really powerful in my opinion.

• 50:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and admitting when you're wrong. Like, hey, if I made this, if I made, if I had the wrong theory, that's okay.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, in light of new information.

• 50:29Jocko Willink?

  New information, here we go, I'm changing, that's okay. It always kind of freaked me out with politicians. I think we've had this conversation, we've had this conversation before. Politicians, people would say, oh, he's a flip-flopper.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Flip-flopper, yeah.

• 50:38Jocko Willink?

  And that's a negative thing. It's a negative thing if the person is flip-flopping just to get votes.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:43Jocko Willink?

  But if, but if new stuff comes to light and they say, you know what, I kind of changed my opinion on that one.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Or the culture shifts, man. Like, there's certain things that's, even, I mean, back to your thing with the short shorts, that's, I mean, the point here is a little bit different, but you have to contend with

• 50:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  cultural shifts. Yeah. Like, in, in Hawaii, for example, when I grew up, like, just the swimsuits, um, were, you know, sure, you wear a bikini, but it's like a normal bikini. So I come, I go to college, I come here, I move here, I go back, this is like, you know, ten, eleven years later, I'm noticing the bikinis in there, it's just way less material. And I'm like, dang, this, they're showing a lot, but everyone's just, you know, little kids and stuff like that. Okay. And my younger brother who lives there, he said, that's just how it is now. He's like, man, you, you wouldn't have got away with that.

• 51:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so that's, that's some stuff that I had to, like, go, okay, I'm not gonna expend a bunch of leadership capital, fighting not just my kids, but fighting culture as a whole.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what you're

• 51:41Jocko Willink?

  But then there's things that cross the line, right?

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll tell you what it is, it's you wearing those short shorts. That's crossing the line.

• 51:50Jocko Willink?

  You don't want to see me in those short shorts. You don't want to have that happen. So, um, like I said, ton of good information from Captain Isaacson, from Dr. Horakova, um, but, you know, speaking of learning and teaching and questioning, speaking of question time.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 52:15Jocko Willink?

  I think we got a little question time to contend with.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 52:19Jocko Willink?

  Little Q and A.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, might as well. So let's, uh, Ask Jocko some questions.

• 52:26Jocko Willink?

  Let's do that.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  I like your answers to questions, Jocko. See, that's kind of the good thing about knowing your phone number. I can just text you with questions, like, purse my own questions. A gross mismanagement of your time.

• 52:40Jocko Willink?

  It is.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Potentially.

• 52:41Jocko Willink?

  However, I'm pretty quick to answer abruptly and short answers.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 52:48Jocko Willink?

  Because you pretty much know what the answer is gonna be.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  I do, and sometimes you just need that backup, and that's or that reinforcement, you know? You know how like, you're like, "Man, I really having this issue with myself," or whatever. You're like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask Jocko." Because it's real, I'm really confused. Not confused, but you know, I'm really, I need the answer. I don't have the, I'm really wanna, I'm gonna ask Jocko. And you can be texting Jocko the answer or the question, and you're like, "I know the answer." Like, as I'm reading this question to Jocko, it kind of puts it into, yeah, yeah, so I don't send it. So you get about maybe a third, eh, like a quarter of the questions that I actually had for you, yeah.

• 53:29Jocko Willink?

  That's good.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. So, you know, the Jocko effect is real. Question number one. Jocko, I keep trying to ask around my BJJ school if anyone follows SNC program.

• 53:41Jocko Willink?

  Now, you just abbreviated SNC, you know what that is, right?

• 53:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 53:44Jocko Willink?

  Oh, it's strength and conditioning.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Okay. Sure.

• 53:48Jocko Willink?

  A hundred percent.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  That's like a known thing.

• 53:52Jocko Willink?

  That's a known thing, especially for someone that's jacked like yourself.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Who's into strength and conditioning, I don't write, I've never seen that, you know? Maybe I don't write that, maybe I just do it.

• 54:02Jocko Willink?

  Credit, credit, mic drop, you can go home now.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Anyway, I'm asking around my jiu-jitsu school if anyone follows a strength and conditioning program for comps, which is competition, I know that.

• 54:16Jocko Willink?

  Nicely done. You're up on things.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Everyone keeps telling me to just roll for strength and conditioning. What do you think about that?

• 54:25Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so, rolling is obviously the base, right? You need to roll, and that, but that has to, that just doesn't mean include rolling. Like, we're gonna go roll, however it works out. It means rolling with some kind of structure around it, so you get your short rounds. You gotta get your long rounds, you gotta get your shark tanks, you gotta get your positional drilling, you gotta get your consequence free drills. Like Dean Lister makes us do consequence free drills where you're gonna start in a position where you might get tapped out, but it doesn't matter.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 55:02Jocko Willink?

  Or you're gonna start a position where you might lose position, but you're gonna do it anyways. And, and then Glover, that's what Dean does. Actually Glover does the consequence drills. Where you're already start, like starting in the arm lock.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:15Jocko Willink?

  That you're letting a person take your arm and you're starting there. And you're just gonna see what you can get out of it. Or start in the triangle, not the triangle danger, in the triangle.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:25Jocko Willink?

  That's some Jeff Glover.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did that too.

• 55:27Jocko Willink?

  Crap right there. Um, but it's good for you. It's good. So you gotta, you gotta do that. You know, and the short rounds, by short rounds, I mean short intense rounds.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:37Jocko Willink?

  Right? If you, uh, my attitude in a three minute round is completely different than my attitude in a 20 minute round. Or even, I mean, the, the ultimate, and believe it or not, my attitude in a 20 minute round is different from my attitude in a no time limit round.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Really?

• 55:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess.

• 55:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Right?

• 56:00Jocko Willink?

  Especially because in regular training, even if you get the submission, if I submit you in four minutes, I still gotta do another 16. So I might go all hard for four minutes and get the submission, but then I gotta go another 16 minutes now. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna have some tactical, now if we're, now what's different is if it's no time limit. After four minutes, I get you, we're, we're kinda done. We can go again.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:25Jocko Willink?

  But we're also, we can just be done, cause I got you.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  But if you get them in one minute.

• 56:29Jocko Willink?

  We're probably going again.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like an ambiguous.

• 56:32Jocko Willink?

  Actually, four minutes is probably going again too. But like eight minutes, so I might, I might not submit you in one minute. Or even four minutes, cause I wanna get you to a point where I know I'm just gonna have to do this one time.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:48Jocko Willink?

  The psychology. Uh, but so yes, you have to roll now. But you still need to get stronger, right? And a classic example of this is Big Andy, Big Andy Burke, right? Great jujitsu, but he wasn't super strong. And I was, I said to him, hey, start doing pull ups, start doing push ups and dips and squats. Just start to him and he did. He listened to me. And, and in a matter of a month, he felt completely different because he wasn't working out at all. He was just rolling and he was rolling hardcore, but just rolling compared to actually getting stronger. I, I, and then he went on to

• 57:26Jocko Willink?

  powerlifting and Olympic lifting and, and now it's like, okay, I gotta contend with actual strength and power here. So that, that definitely makes a difference. You know, his skill was getting better, but it wasn't, I was feeling his skill getting better, you know, but we're all getting better at the same time. But all of a sudden he started getting stronger. So strength, that's the strength part, right? Now the conditioning part, same thing. Jujitsu allows you to rest and that's actually a positive attribute of your jujitsu game. If you can rest while you're doing it.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:54Jocko Willink?

  Right? That's, that's one of the good, that's, that, that proves that you know what you're doing.

• 58:00Jocko Willink?

  Now, that's actually a negative when it comes to working out, because if you do something like a row or a bike or a sprint or a metcon workout on a timer, there are no mercy. Slacking is not rewarded. You're, you're, you're, you're racing against the clock. And so those things are going to push you faster for longer periods of time, harder than just a roll well. So bottom line, for strength and conditioning and jujitsu. Yeah, you gotta do jujitsu for sure. Gotta be your base. And then you've got to do strength training to get stronger.

• 58:43Jocko Willink?

  And that's deads and squats and cleaning jerks and snatches and overhead squats and all the key lifts. And that means doing singles and doubles and fours and fives and sets of 20. I mean, it means getting stronger. And then you gotta work your metabolic conditioning and how do you do that?

• 59:01Jocko Willink?

  You go hard, you go metabolic conditioning, you do you do metcons, right? You mix in lighter weights, doing more repetitions, short, and you gotta mix up the rounds too. Going short rounds, long rounds, Tabata, do you know what Tabata is?

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:17Jocko Willink?

  The Tabata Protocol.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  I don't know the exact, is there an exact number?

• 59:21Jocko Willink?

  There is an exact number, the exact number for the Tabata Protocol.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 59:27Jocko Willink?

  Is.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  Thirty thirty?

• 59:29Jocko Willink?

  Nope, twenty seconds of work, ten seconds of rest.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:32Jocko Willink?

  So for me, that's like the shortest rounds you're doing is twenty seconds of work, ten seconds of rest. Then you gotta also do long rounds. And then you do, you know, a lot of times I do three on, one off for rounds. That's a boxing, right? A lot of times I'm doing five on, one off. That's MMA. And then above that, you start to get to Jiu Jitsu, which is ten minutes one off. But what's interesting is if you're doing a ten minute round and then one off, and then another ten minute round and then one off, that blurs into one big round. So a lot of times when we're got a guy that's competing black belt or a, or he's doing a twenty minute fight or a ten minute fight, a twenty minute, ten minute grappling match, one round of ten minutes or one round of fifteen minutes,

• 1:00:17Jocko Willink?

  you gotta have him take a bigger break in between, sometimes during the training, so that they're actually coming in there fresh and they can work through the problem again, otherwise they're just going through the one hour roll level.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:30Jocko Willink?

  The whole time, which is not good for them.

• 1:00:33Jocko Willink?

  And obviously, you gotta learn technique, you gotta practice technique, cuz Jiu Jitsu is what's gonna win. And like, I just had somebody hit me up on social media, and they said, cuz I told a story at some point on this podcast about rolling with a black belt girl. For the first time, it was the first time I ever rolled with an actual black belt girl, and I was thinking, oh, you know, I better bring my A game a little bit so I don't get caught here. And then, when I, as soon as I started rolling with her, I was like, that's not happening. And the guy says, does this mean that you can't defeat a stronger opponent with Jiu Jitsu? And I said, no, absolutely, um, I watch girls, lighter, weaker girls, tap out bigger, stronger guys on the regular.

• 1:01:16Jocko Willink?

  But what we're, what, what that situation was, not only was I bigger and stronger, but I'm also skilled at Jiu Jitsu.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:24Jocko Willink?

  So, doesn't apply.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and there's this element of jujitsu and this actually kinda goes back to um Andy. When you know, when you get Andy with his, his skill and technique. And then you add some strength and conditioning to it, it's like, you know, so what you do if you, if you don't have, if you're not big and strong. You can't really bully anyone on the mat and bully, I don't mean bully bully, I mean like you can't just turn on this like.

• 1:01:53Jocko Willink?

  You're saying if you're not, if you're not big and strong.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:55Jocko Willink?

  Have you ever seen Jeff Glover bully people? Cause I have.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Well, he bullies in in a different way, like so, so and that's what I mean by bully, like you can't just impose your strength on someone.

• 1:02:06Jocko Willink?

  Well, I'm gonna have to disagree with you.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  You can impose your technique.

• 1:02:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  I think.

• 1:02:10Jocko Willink?

  Uh, yeah, I mean Jeff Glover will bully guys on the mat if they're out of line for sure.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, but in, it's in a different kinda way.

• 1:02:17Jocko Willink?

  So you're talking about, you, well, you can't go strength, you can't just start bullying, physically bullying them. You have to technically bully them.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  Yes, so.

• 1:02:25Jocko Willink?

  I'll accept that.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, so let's say your technique is, is similar. And but you have straight up weight, strength and conditioning.

• 1:02:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  It really plays a big factor.

• 1:02:38Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  And not to say that you'll be able to necessarily tap the guy out, but him trying to tap you out when you have strength. Conditioning and size, it's like it, it just gets real hard.

• 1:02:48Jocko Willink?

  No, for sure, unless you, well, you, the key component there that you mentioned is that I have to have similar.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:56Jocko Willink?

  Cause you, you can be a two hundred and thirty-five pound like guy, super strong athlete. And if you don't know ju- jujitsu, Jeff Glover's gonna wrap you up like you don't even know what's happening, he's a hundred and fifty pounds.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, for, yeah.

• 1:03:10Jocko Willink?

  And he, and I've seen him do that, obviously.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  With one, roughly one hundred percent certainty, you will.

• 1:03:16Jocko Willink?

  With, with.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Jocko Willink?

  Well, I, you know. Even beyond roughly 100%, it is really, really close to 100%.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:23Jocko Willink?

  If you don't know jujitsu, 245-pound muscle head.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:27Jocko Willink?

  Going against Jeff Glover, you're getting tapped out.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Even if you do know jujitsu.

• 1:03:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  There was a video, I think it's grapplers quest, I think it's still online right now.

• 1:03:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Jeff Glover goes against this huge guy.

• 1:03:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  I think he was maybe.

• 1:03:40Jocko Willink?

  And that guy knew some, some level of jujitsu?

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  He was a jujitsu fighter, yeah. It was a jujitsu match.

• 1:03:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  And, oh man, it's, yeah, it's just crazy to watch.

• 1:03:47Jocko Willink?

  And that was when Jeff was like 13 or something.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  And he was crazy back then. He's still crazy. But yeah, um, yeah, so the girl, you know, the girl thing, and I remember that question, it was on Twitter, right?

• 1:04:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  It was like, hey, doesn't jujitsu allow you?

• 1:04:02Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, again, yeah, perfect, exact, I mean, tha- that's the answer there.

• 1:04:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  Because, yeah, you have all this experience, but you know how, like, how we always talk about, like, when you lock up with someone?

• 1:04:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  You can get a really good idea of what they're about to bring to you.

• 1:04:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, unless it's James Nielsen. Then you lock up and you're like, what is about, this should be pretty easy. Oh, I'm getting swept.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're a little bit confused. For sure, for sure. There are exceptions, for sure. But generally speaking, you know, even just, not even beyond just strength. Strength in their grip and their rigidity and their, you know.

• 1:04:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you can feel the, you can feel the either, like, they're relaxed. To me, that's an indicator.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:41Jocko Willink?

  Like, someone that just, like, they feel relaxed, you're like, okay, this is, this guy probably knows what he's doing.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:46Jocko Willink?

  Because the person that doesn't know what they're doing, they're going all psycho.

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  Yes, doing, making like little micro moves that are incorrect, you know?

• 1:04:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, just even putting their foot right there. It's like, bro, your foot should not be right there right now, kind of thing.

• 1:04:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you can tell real quick.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, but it does go into the strength part as well. So like, you know, when you grab someone's wrist, or they grab your wrist or something like that, you're like, okay. Because a lot of jujitsu, this is weird, a lot of jujitsu is knowing what's important and what's not important.

• 1:05:12Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  So you know these.

• 1:05:12Jocko Willink?

  That's not just jujitsu either, by the way.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's like.

• 1:05:15Jocko Willink?

  Because I just talked about that with, with kids and with being a leader.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:17Jocko Willink?

  And you don't expend your leadership capital trying to get your, trying to get your team to do something that's not really truly necessary.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:25Jocko Willink?

  That's not going to help your cause.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'll jam you.

• 1:05:27Jocko Willink?

  And it's not going to help you in jujitsu if you're focused on something that's not important. And to know what's important and what's not is very important as a leader, as a parent, and as on the jujitsu player mat.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:36Jocko Willink?

  Of justice.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  And very hard, by the way, it takes like a lot of experience. So you consider these guys who are um like if you do a light role with a really, really high level guy, that's when you can start to see, okay, this guy really thinks that this arm position is really important because he'll he'll fight till the death to kind of maintain it, you know, so but what back just back to the girl real quick, the girl situation, when you lock up with someone strength wise, you know, you feel like I said you what they're about to bring. So again, and when you have the more experience you have, the more you're gonna know with like more accuracy. And I think that's what you.

• 1:06:15Jocko Willink?

  And actually, this point of taking that point and transferring it into leadership is so critical. And I'll tell you, I am really good at knowing what's important and what's not. And just be and you can see people that get all spun up about things. And, you know, just, okay, they're spun up about something. It's the same thing with family life, you know, your your wife gets all spun up about something like, what are we gonna do? We're gonna keep doing what we're doing. And we're gonna be okay, you know, or you want to focus all your time and energy on that? That's fine. Go ahead. You know, that's cool. I'll support you and you can make it happen. But, you know, think about how important something really is when you're getting spun up about something. Just think about how important it really is.

• 1:06:58Jocko Willink?

  There's a good chance it's not that important. There's a really good chance it's not that important. There's usually four or five things that are really important as a leader that you need to focus on. And and that list, the further you go down that list, the less important things are. And I see leaders get spun up on things that are list on the list number forty seven. And they're acting like it's the most important thing and it's gonna ruin everything. And it's like, no, doesn't does not that big of a deal.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:25Jocko Willink?

  So learn that.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Is that why you wear the same clothes every day?

• 1:07:30Jocko Willink?

  You know, I wear the same.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  Because fashion is not important.

• 1:07:33Jocko Willink?

  It's not important to me.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Not for sure.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  Those short rounds are good when you do short rounds in jujitsu. And they kind of trick you too. Cause like Jeff will do that. He'll be like, hey, three minute rounds. So you have this thing in your head like, oh, it's only three minutes. Just go hard. But meanwhile, you only got 30 seconds rest before you gotta go again. So you're doing essentially a metcon jujitsu and that's good.

• 1:07:53Jocko Willink?

  That is good.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  For that kind of stuff. Yeah, man, it's good. Yeah, agree. I like the strength. Some guys say you don't need strength and conditioning. Cause the more, the anytime you spend doing physical activity should be on your jujitsu.

• 1:08:05Jocko Willink?

  That's interesting. I would like to agree with that. It sounds good. But I would do, if I'm gonna do jujitsu six hours a day, I'd still do strength and conditioning. Twenty minutes, half an hour, 45 minutes.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  That's one of the good things about jujitsu. You can have different philosophies and still be successful. Cause there's, I think like, I think it's Dylan Dennis or somebody. Maybe Marcel, Marcel Garcia only does.

• 1:08:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know. And Dean used to always try and convince me that I was gonna do jujitsu. And I'd say no.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Well, Dean's all crazy strong though.

• 1:08:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know. He's a.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  So it's kinda easy to say, oh, just jujitsu.

• 1:08:39Jocko Willink?

  That's all I do is do jujitsu. And I mean, just, I don't know. I don't do grip strength training. I can hold anything for a full six hours.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Jocko Willink?

  So, check. Alright, next question.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Jocko, I have a question about leadership. I'm a firefighter and some of the guys on my department have been pushing me to step up

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  and put in for an officer's position. And I'm honored, but when we're, when we were going to a call, I was presented with an opportunity to lead and passed it up.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  I don't know what I was thinking. I can't believe I did that. Did I just lose credibility? If I did, is there

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  a was to get that back away? Right? That's what he meant?

• 1:09:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  If I did, is there a way to get that back? Thanks.

• 1:09:27Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so first of all, this is just a general rule. If you want to lead, always be ready to lead. Right? Be ready to step up. Make sure you're not stepping on people's toes as always, but be ready to lead. And the way you do that is you think about you, what you do in certain situations. You should always be thinking about that. You should be thinking, even if you're a trooper or a follower in a certain situation, you should think, okay, how would I lead? What would I do right now? What moves would I make? What would I do if a contingency happened right now? And what are the possible contingencies that I could be looking at? What are they? And if you're thinking that as a, as a frontline guy, when the opportunity pops up, then just jump on it.

• 1:10:11Jocko Willink?

  Boom, there you go. Then when it does happen, of course, you gotta stay detached. Because you want to make sure that you don't lead too far. You don't overstep your bounds and step on toes. You gotta be careful of that. So you need to live with that mindset. And that will make you such a, a better leader when the moment does come. If you're always thinking about it, if you're always watching, like you talked about earlier, I'm watching the leader, I'm seeing what they're doing, I'm seeing what I might do differently. I'm still supporting them. I'm supporting you if you're in charge, I'm supporting you, but I'm thinking, I might, I might do this. And then you watch, what would my, what would the results of my decision have been compared to what they did? So you, you can be thinking like a leader, even though you might not necessarily be in a leadership position.

• 1:10:55Jocko Willink?

  So live with that mindset. That's what you need to do. Now, as far as you passing up the opportunity to lead, which yes, you're admitting was an error. First of all, I'll say this, it probably, it's probably not quite as obvious to everyone else as it is to you. In your mind, you're thinking, oh man, I blew it. This was my chance. And no, I bet the guys went back from that call and didn't even think about it. Didn't even think about it again. Most likely, unless it was just some flagrant, I don't want to lead. I'm not ready. If you did that, well then, yeah, people are gonna, but if you just said, if you just kind of backed away from a moment and people, people might've realized it. But anyways, regardless of that, you probably guessed what I'm gonna say then. What you gotta do is own it, right?

• 1:11:39Jocko Willink?

  You gotta own it. So when the opportunity presents itself to explain what happened and what went wrong and what you did wrong, right? Not making excuses, but explain where you were weak, you know? So you say, hey guys, you know, hey, remember that last call? I should have stepped up and I had the had the wrong mindset. I wasn't ready to lead and I let not only did I let you guys down, I let myself down. And I'm not gonna let that happen again. From now on, I'm gonna have leadership in the front of my mind. That's what I'm gonna do.

• 1:12:15Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna be thinking about what needs to get done. I'm gonna be thinking about contingencies and how I'm gonna lead and I promise the next time this opportunity comes up, I'm gonna be ready to lead. So I'm sorry for letting you guys down. It won't happen again.

• 1:12:29Jocko Willink?

  Okay. That's that's it. Boom.

• 1:12:34Jocko Willink?

  Get the mindset. Live and think as a leader regardless of what position you're actually in. And then when they call you and the opportunity presents itself, step up and lead.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  Obviously, that's your default mindset now.

• 1:12:54Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:12:54Speaker 01

  It seems obvious to me.

• 1:12:55Jocko Willink?

  It is truly.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  Was it always like that, like even before?

• 1:13:00Jocko Willink?

  It's that story that I've told over and over again about being on an oil rig and coming up and guys not knowing where to go or everyone freezing. And and me going, okay, let's just step back and look around and make a call. And when I did that, that was it. And so I.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  That's when it clicked.

• 1:13:15Jocko Willink?

  It clicked, or I would say, I guess I was thinking about it beforehand because I was, you know, observing my leaders and thinking about what they were doing and what I would do differently in a certain situation. Yeah.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's crazy because even in everyday life, which is what I represent, everyday life, but you know how your wife or girl, whatever is like, hey, you know, what's the dinner situation? What do you want? Oh, I don't care. Whatever you want. You know, that's a time where I I always feel this, what this guy just asked, you know? I mean, obviously, it's nothing compared to his situation, but they're like, hey, well, you know, what are you thinking for dinner kind of thing? And I'm like, hey, I don't I don't care. And that's really how I feel. I don't care. I'm kind of down for whatever kind of thing, but that's not why. That's not why she's asking me. She wants me, she wants me to make that decision.

• 1:14:06Jocko Willink?

  Oh, she wants you to step up and lead.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Step up and be like, this is what we're having for dinner. I'm gonna go get her. I'm gonna make it or whatever. That's what she wants. And really, those little, that situation comes up all the time.

• 1:14:15Jocko Willink?

  That's a good point.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Just like, you know, the old, that, the jo- actually, that's kind of like a joke, you know, when you ask a girl, uh, when a girl says. Or when you ask a girl, hey, what do you want to eat? And she says, I don't, I don't care, whatever. And then you say, okay, we're gonna go eat here. And she's like, I don't really like that.

• 1:14:27Jocko Willink?

  Of course.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  See, yeah. It, it's, you gotta, yeah. I feel like this guy when, when I do that, that's the point there.

• 1:14:34Jocko Willink?

  So from now on, you're gonna step up and lead.

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  I'm gonna do it, yeah. But I want it to be my default is why, you know, like yours is like your default, like, oh, this is what we're doing. Like, okay, you know what?

• 1:14:42Jocko Willink?

  I wish that was true with, when it did come to dinner. Actually, you know what? It kind of is true, because I only go to like three places to eat.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:14:50Jocko Willink?

  And, and I go to one eighty percent of the time.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, same here.

• 1:14:55Jocko Willink?

  So the other twenty percent of the time. So if she says, where you wanna go? I'm gonna say that my restaurant?

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:00Jocko Willink?

  We're going to Raglan's in OB.

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  But that makes it harder though, right? Wait, does she like Raglan's though?

• 1:15:06Jocko Willink?

  She does. She does. Which makes it easier.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:09Jocko Willink?

  But. And if she doesn't feel like it, then she'll be like, I don't really wanna go there. Okay, cool. Now it's on you. I gave you my vote.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:18Jocko Willink?

  Now, if you don't wanna do that?

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  But I think you've still gotta do it. You've still gotta make a decision. You gotta like, because in a way, I'm in the same boat as your second scenario there, like if she's not in the mood. So.

• 1:15:30Jocko Willink?

  Then I'm just gonna name my secondary restaurant.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Alright, there you go.

• 1:15:33Jocko Willink?

  Maybe she'll say yes, maybe she'll say no.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  Well, that gotta be my default now, though.

• 1:15:39Jocko Willink?

  Alright. Step up and lead.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  You know what, you know what I gotta do? I gotta prepare. I gotta prepare myself.

• 1:15:44Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  I gotta have like five options, just ready to go on deck.

• 1:15:48Jocko Willink?

  That's what I have, three.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  So, so that's not what you have?

• 1:15:52Jocko Willink?

  One, two, three, and they all come in the same order. I must be really boring.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  Nah. Hey, you focus on what's important. That's good.

• 1:16:00Jocko Willink?

  Well, whenever my wife says, uh, you know, well, don't you ever wanna try anything new? I'm, I say, nope.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:05Jocko Willink?

  I don't.

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  I don't, yeah.

• 1:16:07Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of which, darling. You're my girl. I'm not looking to try anything new. I'm happy with having the same thing.

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  Very happy, yes. That's actually that. I'm gonna use that line right there. But what do you do when the team wants to try something new?

• 1:16:22Jocko Willink?

  Alright, let's rock and roll.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Alright, let's do that. Alright.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  Good tips. Alright, next question. Jocko, I'm a sergeant in my country's army. The reason that I'm sending you this message is because of a tragic incident in our unit. This week, a young enlisted soldier committed suicide. He shot himself with his issue rifle. This came as a shock to all of us. He was a bright, smart, and happy guy. Damn. I'm seeking your advice, Jocko. Do you have any advice on how I, as a leader, can talk to the guys about it? How does a group of soldiers cope with a loss when the reason is so tragic? Thank you.

• 1:17:05Jocko Willink?

  And obviously condolences to

• 1:17:09Jocko Willink?

  the team and the family of the soldier. And I think what you have to do in this situation is you gotta, as a leader, you gotta bring this out in the open. And I think one of the worst things you can do is pretend that it didn't happen, pretend that the problem's gonna go away. And I think what you have to do is you have to explain it, which is weird because in this case, explaining it means admitting that you can't explain it. Because you can't explain it. Or you're not gonna be able to, or you're gonna be making up something that you're guessing at, right? You're not gonna know what individual situations caused this to happen. You know, because who can make sense of that? I mean, a bright, smart, happy guy?

• 1:17:55Jocko Willink?

  It doesn't make sense.

• 1:17:58Jocko Willink?

  And while you can't explain why, I think you have to address it as a reality.

• 1:18:09Jocko Willink?

  And I think you gotta address it as something that your platoon needs to fight against, just like they would fight against the enemy.

• 1:18:17Jocko Willink?

  What is the threat? The threat is depression. The threat is loneliness. The threat is helplessness. The threat is feeling like there's no way out.

• 1:18:28Jocko Willink?

  And being aware of those threats is what allows recognition of the enemy so that you can fight him.

• 1:18:41Jocko Willink?

  So I think you've got to talk about this with your guys. I think that they will become aware of what they need to look out for in others and in themselves.

• 1:18:52Jocko Willink?

  So they can alert the platoon that, you know, hey, if you guys talk to Johnny, man, he seems, you know, Johnny seems a little off right now. We should check in on him. We should talk to him. Or self-recognition. Man, I'm feeling like depressed about something. I'm feeling dark. It doesn't, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Right? And on that last podcast that we did, I read a couple excerpts in words from some various combat veterans. And I touched on the fact that several of them, from different times, from different wars, had written the same thing. And they wrote basically that death would be liberating.

• 1:19:40Jocko Willink?

  And that it would be an escape from the hell of war, from the memories of war. And, and I should have hit on that harder.

• 1:19:50Jocko Willink?

  Because I, I, I think that what that means to me, what that tells me, is that, is that having those thoughts doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with you. Right? It doesn't necessarily mean that you're losing it. These, you know, the, the writings that I'm talking about, the book, and then the writing from a guy that I knew, doesn't mean that you're losing it.

• 1:20:22Jocko Willink?

  And I think that people think to themselves, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking about how death would be an easier way right now. And, and they think that by thinking that, they're, they're totally screwed up. When I think the reality is that is, or I even think, the reality of the situation is that that's obviously a fairly normal thing to think about. And, you know, I, I,

• 1:20:52Jocko Willink?

  When I was in Ramadi, I, I definitely, I, I wasn't thinking about killing myself, but I definitely saw that dying in combat was, would be a relief to the stress that I was under, no doubt. And, and I didn't want to die, but I'll tell you what, we joked about it. I joked about it. I joked about it with Leif. I'd be like, hey, if we get in a firefight tonight, first thing I'm gonna do is crack a green camo light on my chest. So the enemy knows exactly where I am. It's like, we're joking because we're under a lot of stress. But I, I think my, what I'm trying to say is that those feelings or those thoughts don't mean that you're done. They just mean that you're human.

• 1:21:33Jocko Willink?

  They just mean that you're human and I think if you keep them bottled up, then they might explode. So that's what I think you need to do. That's what I need to tell your men, that these thoughts happen. And that your platoon, your team needs to be on guard against them.

• 1:21:53Jocko Willink?

  And the best way to be on guard is to be vigilant, to look for the signs, to look for behavior and talk about them. And then be able to ask for help. It's one of the big problems. These guys don't want to ask for help because we're macho. I don't need help with anything. We're, our egos are too big, so we don't ask for help.

• 1:22:16Jocko Willink?

  And so we have to put our egos in check. We gotta pay attention to each other. And there's gonna be some people that you're gonna have to pry this out of them, right? They're not gonna willingly talk about it. So I think that's what you have to do so that you can get somebody some professional help. I'm not a psychiatrist, obviously, and, and in a normal infantry platoon, there's no psychiatrist in there. But you need to recognize, because you're the first line of defense. And how can you get that somebody to a professional that can help them? And to be honest with you, this doesn't only apply to soldiers, right? It applies to everyone.

• 1:22:53Jocko Willink?

  Don't let these thoughts fester in your brain. You gotta get them out. You gotta put them out in the light. Right? You gotta put them out in the light so they so they dry. They're like a vampire. They dry up and they wither and they they turn to dust.

• 1:23:13Jocko Willink?

  You know, that's what you want to do. You want to expose them so you can get the professional help and get things under control. So

• 1:23:19Jocko Willink?

  that's the leadership. Be straightforward with your troops. Tell them the truth. Explain the enemy threat. That's what we're talking about. And how you as a platoon are gonna look out for it.

• 1:23:31Jocko Willink?

  And then obviously you gotta grieve the loss. You gotta mourn your fallen comrade and then you also have to get back to work, get back to soldiering.

• 1:23:43Jocko Willink?

  Get back to preparing for the enemy that you will face on the battlefield with with a new awareness that there's another enemy that can lurk inside the platoon and inside the individual and that you have to protect each other just like you protect each other from a real enemy.

• 1:24:09Jocko Willink?

  So that would probably be the the route that I would go. Good luck, brother, with that. It's a it's a hard one, for sure.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  Jocko, my leader is not an extreme ownership disciple. Among other things, he's fostering division within our team. How do I help lead those who no longer trust in the commander but are awesome guys? Who want to stay involved? How do I bring them back into the fold without threatening our lead or our dear leader?

• 1:24:45Jocko Willink?

  All right. Well, first of all, you gotta become a buffer between your boss and your team. That's what you need to do. Try and absorb as much negativity as you can and make sure you don't spread that negativity. Right? This and also this is a delicate situation that we've talked about before. If you completely support the boss.

• 1:25:07Jocko Willink?

  And, and, and act like the boss is the greatest person in the world. The team is going to reject you or there's a like a high likelihood that they're going to reject you. At the same time, if you completely reject the boss, then you've actually aided in dividing the team. Because now the team is not aligned with the boss. So you have to balance. You have to balance this. And one of the best ways to do this is to put, listen to this, you gotta put the importance of the mission and the team above the egos and attitudes.

• 1:25:39Jocko Willink?

  So here's, I'm gonna say something like, look, guys. Look, guys, I know we have our differences with the chain of command on some things, but we have a job to do. All right, we have a mission to accomplish and even though we might not agree with the boss on everything, it's our team.

• 1:25:57Jocko Willink?

  It's our team. And the performance of the team, sure, it reflects the boss, but it reflects us too.

• 1:26:06Jocko Willink?

  So what I say we do is win. Let's, let's win. Let's be the best regardless of what the boss does or what the boss says. Let's win to prove.

• 1:26:24Jocko Willink?

  To prove that even with a situation where the leadership might be lacking a bit, we're so good that we're gonna win anyways. Who wants to get some of that, right? There you go. Let's win despite poor leadership. That's what we're gonna do. And I'll tell you what, in my younger and maybe a little less

• 1:26:47Jocko Willink?

  politically savvy days, I would have said something like, let's win not just despite our leadership, but let's win to spite our leadership. Like, we would just perform so well in the face of a horrible leader. We're gonna show everyone what was up. The underdog Cinderella story, we're gonna rock. So that's cool. You know, sometimes you're, you're winning not just despite your leadership, but to spite them. I've done that a couple of times in my career. Not, not the best, not the best one. It's better to win despite them. So despite, we've got some rough leadership, it's okay. And the other thing is, you know, you, even when you're doing that with a bad leader, you've still gotta be careful not to step on the leader's toes.

• 1:27:33Jocko Willink?

  And the way you do that is really easy. You give them all the credit. You give them all the credit and that's great. And that little nagging voice that you've got in the back of your head that wants credit. You know that one I'm talking about that ego back there? Don't worry about that. I'm telling you right now, you will get the credit in the long run. You will get the credit. Don't worry about it. You might not get the credit on this one, or even this week, this month, maybe not even this year, but eventually you will get the credit and recognition that you deserve, that you want. Because your boss's boss? He knows what's up. He knows what's up. And your troops know what's up.

• 1:28:16Jocko Willink?

  And so when everybody knows what's up, when you have a truly bad leader, the truly bad leader doesn't, they're not, they're not just walking around fooling everyone in an organization. It's not happening. It's not happening. And if it does happen, it doesn't happen for long. It only happens, there's a limited time that it can happen for. Because every, every idiotic move that that leader makes down the chain of command, at least one out of every five, he does something stupid up the chain of command too. And so how is that group performing so well? We know it's not the leader. He's, he's an idiot. Oh, they must have some good junior leadership in there. Who's those guys? Oh, that's Echo Charles. He's in charge of that squad and they're crushing it.

• 1:28:59Jocko Willink?

  So, don't worry about that. Just lead and win and give that credit away and it's going to come back to you tenfold. That's what you do.

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  Kind of in a way goes back to like, people are watching. They're watching.

• 1:29:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. People are going to pick up on that.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:17Jocko Willink?

  And they're not gonna, you know, that doesn't mean that the boss's boss is going to advertise that. Because the boss's boss, they're a good leader. So the boss's boss isn't going to come and undermine them.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:25Jocko Willink?

  No, but when the time comes for a motion, when the time comes for a reorganization, that's who's gonna be having, you know, that's where the, that's where the adjustments are going to be made.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  That's a good point.

• 1:29:38Jocko Willink?

  But we get so wrapped up, we get, the ego gets you.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:42Jocko Willink?

  The ego gets you.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:43Jocko Willink?

  Kind of watch out for that thing.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, to truly let it go when you don't get the credit and you for real think that you deserve the credit, to truly let it go, there's a challenge.

• 1:29:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's a challenging one. Relish in that challenge, laugh at it.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:00Jocko Willink?

  You know, good. Boss, you did awesome. Good job.

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz I, well, I feel like anyway, when that does happen, you know, and it's not even necessarily someone else gets the credit for what you did. It's just that you, like, something big happened and it just went completely unnoticed that, that it was straight up because of you, right? That's a potential scenario. But let's say you don't say anything. I think that there is a small feeling of satisfaction that you're like, you know, you took the high road and didn't say anything, you know?

• 1:30:31Jocko Willink?

  I completely get that feeling. Maybe that's my ego.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:33Jocko Willink?

  Well, look at me over here, I'm not even saying anything. I'm giving away so much credit, I'm the man.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  That's like the perfect amount of ego, right? Or perfectly directed ego, but cuz usually it's eclipsed by the fact that you didn't get your credit.

• 1:30:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  Usually.

• 1:30:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:30:50Speaker 01

  It's hard, man.

• 1:30:51Jocko Willink?

  We all want the credit.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  You gotta work on that.

• 1:30:54Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  Next question. I have a question about the warrior mentality. I recently was dumped on a deployment and it's difficult now that I'm home stateside. How does a warrior handle this? Is it like any other emotional loss? I'm trying to use this loss and get after it and improve myself mentally and physically. Not sure how to properly submit questions to the podcast.

• 1:31:19Jocko Willink?

  Alright, so the Dear John Letter. The old classic Dear John Letter. And, you know, agree, sometimes you can keep it at bay when you're deployed, but then when you get home and you get back to the places, the familiar places, where you have the specific memories, that's, that's where the pain starts to come in. And that's fine, you know, that's, that hurts, that's, we get that. Um, but in my opinion, I've said this before, the person that you built in your mind, the person that you had a relationship with that you built in your mind, That person doesn't actually exist.

• 1:32:00Jocko Willink?

  They're not real. They're not real. She wasn't who she appeared to be.

• 1:32:07Jocko Willink?

  And she isn't who she appeared to be. She isn't the sweet, understanding, fun person that you cared so much about. That's not her. That's your memory. That's what you built in your head. She is actually the selfish, self-centered person that cares about herself first and doesn't care about you. That's the reality.

• 1:32:27Jocko Willink?

  And that's fine. But a lot of times the pain that we feel isn't based on the reality. It's based on the fantasy. So you're feeling pain of losing something that wasn't real. So let the fantasy go. Remember that she is not the perfect person that you built in your mind. Period. She's not. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in this situation right now.

• 1:32:55Jocko Willink?

  And then move on, brother. Get after it. Work out. Train hard. Go to jiu-jitsu. Hike. Run. Play guitar. Just get after it. And those things, not only are going to distract you from the pain, which is good, they're going to improve you as a human being, which is good, and they're going to rebuild your confidence, which is good. They're going to make you feel good. They're going to make you stronger and smarter and better and put you into a place where you don't need that little made up fantasy anymore.

• 1:33:31Jocko Willink?

  And they're going to put you in a place where you're going to find something better than the fantasy. Now, I'm going to tell you right now, the fantasies don't exist. The perfect girl or guy for you doesn't exist.

• 1:33:47Jocko Willink?

  They don't exist. So you're going to be out looking for someone that's good, but you're not going to find perfect. Don't get obsessed with finding perfect. If you find someone that's perfect, it's not true. Everyone's got their flaws.

• 1:34:03Jocko Willink?

  So

• 1:34:05Jocko Willink?

  that's what you have to do. And you will end up finding someone that's real. And I get it, man. I know you're going to have some moments.

• 1:34:17Jocko Willink?

  Down in the hole, as Alice in Chains put it. Or trapped in the heart shaped box, as Nirvana put it.

• 1:34:29Jocko Willink?

  Or so lonesome you could cry, as Hank Williams Senior put it. Does it, you notice a theme here? This is what people go through.

• 1:34:39Jocko Willink?

  But those feelings, they're temporary, so let them say hi. Let them hang around for a minute, or for half an hour, or an hour, or whatever, and then kick them out. Kick those feelings out. Get them out of there and go do something else.

• 1:34:55Jocko Willink?

  Take your mind away from those memories of fantasies and put, build some good memories that are real. And yeah, you know what? You can use your anger and your frustration to fuel positivity, for sure. I spent much of my youth doing that very thing, for sure. All those breakups.

• 1:35:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I turned those things into, into fuel.

• 1:35:21Jocko Willink?

  And the other thing I'm telling you is if, if you take action with your body, your mind's gonna follow. And pretty soon, you'll be on to the next chapter and you can move beyond this bad fantasy chapter that you kinda got roped into.

• 1:35:37Speaker 01

  Freaking girls, man. They can get you every time if you let them.

• 1:35:41Jocko Willink?

  It's so hard to, I went through this so many times. You know, cause when I was a assistant platoon commander, platoon commander, tasking commander, whatever, what I was doing, right? But more in the earlier phases, right? Cause once I was, you know, a tasking commander, I was dealing with a lot less, those, those problems that would come to me on a relationship level would be something big, you know, divorce, uh, custody of children, some kind of domestic violence scenario, like real things, but when I was younger. And I was in a SEAL platoon. That's when you're dealing with guys going through the breakup with the girl and the, you know, the Messing with my head, man. Yeah, it's messing with my head, man. Yeah, of course. Every guy goes through that. Me, that's the way it is.

• 1:36:25Jocko Willink?

  You get that weird thing kicking around in there and you start getting crazy. And what's so funny is, what's so funny is, when you're on the outside of it, it's so like, when you're in the heart shaped box yourself, you just can't see anything else. It's just devastating. And everyone that's looking at you is like, bro, let's just go to the bar tonight. You'll meet seventeen new girls tonight. Yeah. But I'd like to come back. That was my girl. That was my special girl. No, it's not. I remember, I kind of had a, this is kind of evil, but I had a kind of a standard response to guys when they'd say, you know,

• 1:37:03Jocko Willink?

  hey, you know, I broke up with Jennifer last night. I'd be like, oh, sweet, man. Let's, let's roll. I would always, and I even carried that honestly. This is like, not something I don't think I would do anymore, but even when guys would be like, hey, man, me and Jennifer are getting divorced. I'd be like, oh, right on, bro. Congrats. Let's rock and roll. You know, I kind of, and, and part of it was just to kind of spin it, like, guys, man, It's not the big deal. It's not the, you need to, you need to, you don't just wallow in it, right? You're getting divorced. Okay. Here's what you need to do. Here's how you maneuver. But, you know, what are you gonna do? You're gonna get dragged down by that, into that mire? Or are you gonna, you know, salvage what you can of your life and let's move on. Let's rock and roll. Yeah.

• 1:37:43Jocko Willink?

  So, that's, again, it might be a little harsh. I don't know that I would still have that react. Maybe with, maybe if I was still in the

• 1:37:52Jocko Willink?

  you know, and most, and ninety-nine, I had one guy that, that, that in, I probably said that to, we have a high divorce rate in the SEAL teams. Yeah. It's like an eighty-five, ninety percent divorce rate. So I've said this to quite a few individuals over the year. I, I only had one that ever kind of, you know, was, was like, no, man, you don't get it. And then I said, no, actually, I do get it. You don't get it. Yeah. And it always is a little rougher when there's kids involved and all that. So, that would put another little horrible spin on it. But. The bottom line is, that is a good attitude to have. Hey, broke up with my girl, right on. I'm glad I got out of this relationship before it developed into something where I did have

• 1:38:37Jocko Willink?

  hooks in me.

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:38:39Jocko Willink?

  Financial hooks, children.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:42Jocko Willink?

  All those things, I made it out scot-free, you know, oh, I'm getting divorced, oh, you have any kids? No. Okay, rock and roll.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:49Jocko Willink?

  You got kids, okay, well, how's it gonna go? You know, what are you putting in line? You know, so.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:55Jocko Willink?

  Definitely hard.

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  Here's a question. Have you ever gotten your heart broken?

• 1:39:02Jocko Willink?

  Negative.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  You haven't, straight up, even in

• 1:39:05Jocko Willink?

  Of course I have, bro. I was, I was a boy. Boys get their heart broken.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  When, when, tell me.

• 1:39:10Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you know, ten, eleven, twelve.

• 1:39:13Speaker 01

  I'm talking like twenty-one-ish time. Cause you know, when you're ten, it's like.

• 1:39:21Jocko Willink?

  Okay, fifteen, fourteen, seventeen, thirteen. I mean, I think once I was, see, once I was in the SEAL teams, I kinda had that coping mechanism when you have, cause you're in the teams now.

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  Gotta be hard.

• 1:39:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and the girls are like, mm.

• 1:39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:35Jocko Willink?

  You know, you gotta, you gotta just kinda, mm.

• 1:39:40Jocko Willink?

  But, yeah, the, that's, you know, the younger days, for sure. Every guy goes through that, and that's, that's what's hard, and you know what, I'm saying guys specifically, but the girls are the same way, both guys and girls go through these horrible breakups. When you, and, and, and this is the other thing that we gotta realize as parents, when you're sixteen years old, we, you know, I look at my fifteen, sixteen, seventeen-year-old daughters, right, as they were growing up, and, and I think, oh, they got a boyfriend. Whatever. He'll be, this guy is meaningless.

• 1:40:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:15Jocko Willink?

  In their lives, I factually know that these guys are meaningless.

• 1:40:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:21Jocko Willink?

  In terms of the broad spectrum of their life.

• 1:40:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:23Jocko Willink?

  But guess what? When you're fifteen years old and you got a boyfriend, that is your whole life.

• 1:40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:29Jocko Willink?

  And so when something goes sideways, I had to say, oh, I had to remember that myself. When I saw my daughters distraught over something, I'd say, okay, here's what's going on. This is her whole life, and I'd try to explain to them. This. Guy, I understand that you like him and that he was good and blah, blah, blah. But you know, let's remember you're only fifteen and there, you know, you're gonna meet another nice guy and other, there'll be other opportunities and blah, blah, blah. But of course, it barely, barely gets through to their heads.

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully. They can't even imagine a nicer guy, a different guy. No.

• 1:41:02Jocko Willink?

  Because he's the best. No. And so, yeah.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Dang, bro.

• 1:41:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you're, you're on question restriction from now on.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  Nah, bro. I wanted to know. I think we all wanted to know.

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  Jocko. What's your take on false motivation versus authentic leadership?

• 1:41:29Jocko Willink?

  Okay, false motivation versus authentic leadership. Now, there's two kind of

• 1:41:35Jocko Willink?

  two kind of ways of understanding this question. The first is from like a really heavy leadership perspective, and that is of trying to lead without actually believing in what you're doing. And that's leading without understanding why and not believing in what you're doing, and that's wrong, right? And this is in extreme ownership, of course, and we talk about on the podcast, you can't do it. If you don't believe in what you're doing, your team's gonna see that and they won't believe in it either, which means they're not gonna go above and beyond to accomplish the mission, period. So you gotta believe what you're doing. And if you don't believe it, then you gotta ask the question, up the chain of command, find out why, understand why, so that you believe in what you're doing. And eventually, you're gonna get the answer, right?

• 1:42:19Jocko Willink?

  Eventually, you're gonna understand

• 1:42:23Jocko Willink?

  why you're doing something, you're gonna believe in it. Or you're gonna, you're gonna convince the chain of command that that's not a good method and you need to go a different direction. And there might be some rare in extremis case where you actually don't, you know, you're, I'm being told to do something and I don't believe in it.

• 1:42:44Jocko Willink?

  And I'd say, no, I'm not going to do it. And like Napoleon said, Napoleon's maxims. If you, you, you actually have to refuse to do it. If you don't believe it's the right thing to do, then you don't do it. That should be very in extremis because our, as a leader, when we're being asked to do something or told to do something or led in a certain way, they're, they're leading us towards victory. Right? They're leading us towards an aligned victory. If it's on the battlefield, it's winning the war. If it's in business, it's creating profit and creating a good product and, and growing the business, right? Those things are, that, that's what you're trying to do. So if Echo, if, if I'm the boss and you come to me with a, with something and say, hey, I want to do this.

• 1:43:29Jocko Willink?

  If it's going to make us more profitable, why would I say no? Right? So we're going to move in that direction. Um, so from a high level, false motivation doesn't work. If you don't believe in something, it's not going to work out for you. Now, from a micro level, from like a frontline level, and the BUDs instructors used to joke about this, that false motivation is better than no motivation. Have you ever heard that? Is that a common expression?

• 1:43:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:43:55Jocko Willink?

  False motivation is better than no motivation? And we don't want that to be true, right? Because we want motivation to be this pure golden thing that fuels performance. But the fact of the matter is, and of course, we talk about all this all the time, motivation doesn't hold up. Right? Motivation doesn't know. How many motivated people, motivated people didn't make it through SEAL training? A ton of them. They're all motivated. Ooh. How many of them didn't make it through training? A ton. How many motivated people do you see that don't accomplish their goals that they have? Right? The world is full, full of those people. There's a ton of those people.

• 1:44:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:39Jocko Willink?

  And that's because motivation doesn't hold you up. We all know this. It's discipline that holds you up. It's discipline that gets things going and it's discipline that gets you through things.

• 1:44:51Jocko Willink?

  But this is an interesting little spin. If you have the discipline to press on, why not have a little fun with it? Right? And that's where I think false motivation can can come in and you can make some things fun. For instance, it's cold, wet and miserable and we have to go swim over the beach and do an operation.

• 1:45:12Jocko Willink?

  Let's get some. Or it's 118 degrees with massive humidity and we have a 14 kilometer patrol to get to target.

• 1:45:23Jocko Willink?

  Let's get some. Right? Hoo ya. Or the water is 41 degrees and we are about to launch on a four hour dive. Right? Hell yes. Let's do this. Right? That that's false motivation. But it's backed up by discipline and it might not be real, but it absolutely beats the hell out of this is gonna be miserable. I don't want to do it. Right? What would you if you and I were gonna go do something that was gonna suck? Would you rather have me say, Echo, I really don't want to do this, but I'm disciplined. So I'm gonna do it? Or would you have rather have me say, Echo, this is gonna suck. Let's go get some. Right? You'd rather have the false motivation.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:46:09Jocko Willink?

  Strap on the pack and put on the mask and fins and fire up the false motivation. Now, I will tell you this. I wouldn't even be sarcastic with false motivation. I wouldn't even blink and I actually my this is the difference. My my false motivation isn't even false. I actually believe my own false motivation.

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, if it's working.

• 1:46:28Jocko Willink?

  And by the time stuff came out of my mouth, I meant it. I I meant it. So I don't know, at some point in my childhood, false motivation turned into like an actual fuel and just just regular motivation. Maybe it's because I realized that I wasn't counting on it to get me through things. I was just having fun with it. Rock and roll.

• 1:46:49Speaker 01

  Do you think also how you know you like you'd always say that you're kind of into just being hardcore even in like normal stuff like whatever so you know when you think back and you're like okay I'm gonna take the hard route or whatever after you finish it you kind of feel more proud of it you know like do you think that that played into it

• 1:47:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  that is like I can be

• 1:47:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah for sure for sure be more hardcore yeah like like I said like the meaning of the meaning of the music hardcore when I was a kid was being hardcore like just the actual meaning of the word and so yeah it's real easy to go from that to like hey I'm gonna do something that sucks and I'm gonna have a good time with I'm gonna laugh about it

• 1:47:28Speaker 01

  Yeah

• 1:47:29Jocko Willink?

  and that does and it is contagious

• 1:47:31Speaker 01

  Right so contagious I'm actually not like that now and if

• 1:47:35Jocko Willink?

  What'd you say you're gonna like

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  No I'm actually like that now

• 1:47:38Jocko Willink?

  Oh okay

• 1:47:38Speaker 01

  Not to you know hundred percent but in a lot of things man like my um my daughter she's four she weighs forty five forty seven pounds so I'll be sitting or I'll be laying on the couch not paying attention she'll climb up on the couch behind and jump and land like you know what a knee drop is right

• 1:47:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah atomic knee drop

• 1:47:59Speaker 01

  Yes

• 1:48:00Jocko Willink?

  For a while just so you know for a while in my house there was no rules in my house there were actually there was no there was only two rules in my house when my kids were like when my older kids were like you know seven six whatever that those types of ages that your daughter's out right now but a little bit older there was two rules in my house number one don't touch me when I'm eating

• 1:48:24Jocko Willink?

  number two no atomic knee drops

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  Oh dang

• 1:48:27Jocko Willink?

  Cause they would do it to each other

• 1:48:29Speaker 01

  Oh yeah

• 1:48:29Jocko Willink?

  I didn't mind them doing it to me but they would atomic knee drop each other

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Yeah

• 1:48:33Jocko Willink?

  So I had to have two rules and plus I wouldn't have a lot of time to eat and all of a sudden it's like they wanna hold on my arm no no no no no get away from me when I'm eating like a like a rabid dog and it's funny one of them the reason that's fresh in my mind because we were just on a trip and and you know my kids were explaining to my youngest daughter that well you know when we were little dad was meaner and he wouldn't let us touch him when we were when he was eating like you just did

• 1:49:01Speaker 01

  Yeah yeah

• 1:49:02Jocko Willink?

  and of course I said well that's cause she's cuter than you were all of you

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  I don't mind the atomic knee drops anymore because of you, because of the very reason how to like you gotta be hardcore. It's cause like, okay, you got a four year old kid.

• 1:49:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:49:19Jocko Willink?

  So think how fun that is for her to atomic knee drop you.

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is another reason why I'm like this now. So she'll climb on the couch, atomic knee drop while I'm not ready, by the way, onto my ribs. So she didn't break my ribs, she didn't injure me to to any lasting degree. But if the normal mindset is like, why did you jump? Why did you do that? It hurt.

• 1:49:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  Let's face it, forty five, forty seven pounds, top of a couch, atomic knee drop, both knees, by the way, all the weight. You know, velocity, all that stuff. Hurt by the normal standard of things. So the typical mindset, I think, would be like, don't do that, especially the shock and all this stuff. But default is just like, whatever, no factor.

• 1:50:03Jocko Willink?

  Do it harder.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  And yeah, sure, it is a catch twenty two because she will and does and but she thinks it's all fun and all this stuff. But yeah, that's that mindset and that came directly from you. Like be hard, it's like Jocko wouldn't complain about that right there. Oh, you're gonna let that happen.

• 1:50:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's really embarrassing if you complain to your four year old daughter about anything.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  You hurt me.

• 1:50:20Jocko Willink?

  About anything.

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:21Jocko Willink?

  Right, about anything.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:50:22Jocko Willink?

  That's that's that's the setting example you were talking about earlier.

• 1:50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Jocko Willink?

  You complain about anything and you're wrong.

• 1:50:29Speaker 01

  Agree.

• 1:50:29Jocko Willink?

  You know, so just suck it up.

• 1:50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:31Jocko Willink?

  Say, bring it on.

• 1:50:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:33Jocko Willink?

  False motivation, which becomes real motivation, which for

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  Be hardcore.

• 1:50:37Jocko Willink?

  The only, like I said, the only sort of reason for motivation for me is just funny. Just funny. It's not gonna actually get you to do anything, but just let's have fun. I'm gonna do it anyways.

• 1:50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:50Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna let the atomic knee drops happen over and over again and I'm gonna. And so why, when I could go through life just experiencing them and accepting them? Why not have some fun with the atomic knee drops and the long cold dives and those hot weather and the, you know, dehydration and the hypothermia? Why not have fun with all those things?

• 1:51:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I mean, you probably know, but it's unbelievable how much that helps yourself.

• 1:51:12Jocko Willink?

  You know what? I think maybe because my view of motivation is so

• 1:51:18Jocko Willink?

  Low.

• 1:51:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:20Jocko Willink?

  That to me, it's just funny.

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:22Jocko Willink?

  Like, false motivation is just funny. Yeah. And, and it, but it is fun.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:26Jocko Willink?

  It's a fun thing.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's all, and that's kind of part of what I mean. Okay, so that, you know, the, the mats, I don't know if you noticed, I brought the mats in here.

• 1:51:33Jocko Willink?

  Yes, I did notice.

• 1:51:34Speaker 01

  So, those mats, there are, I think, just like sixteen of them. I, I forget how many, but they cover a two, full two-car garage, covers it perfectly. It's a lot, it's a lot of mats, and the two-inch thick ones.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  So, to move them, you know, up the, you know, the, the, the topography.

• 1:51:50Jocko Willink?

  Hmm.

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  Is that even?

• 1:51:51Jocko Willink?

  So you had, so you had like some legit challenge ahead of you?

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  Nah, yeah, and I'm not even saying that. Here's, no, no, here, here, this is what happened.

• 1:51:57Jocko Willink?

  You got after it.

• 1:51:58Speaker 01

  So I came, so I came in, put the mats right there, boom. One day, I don't know, whenever, the other day. And then, um, you know, I walked to Jade's office, my brother. You know, he was like, "Oh, hey, what's, what are you doing here?" I was like, "Oh, I just put the mats in here." He's like, "You put the mats in here? What, do you, you know, do you, what, did someone help you with that?" I looked at him and I said, "I don't need help."

• 1:52:18Jocko Willink?

  Ooh.

• 1:52:19Speaker 01

  But, it was a joke, because that's a line from this thing.

• 1:52:22Jocko Willink?

  Oh, I noticed.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  But, but the point there is, just that, that attitude, you know, like, "No, I don't need help. No, I don't, you know, because I'm trying to be like Jocko, you know, fucking hardcore. Fuck, I don't need help. Little kids can't hurt me. They can't make me complain." You know, it's like that mindset, but, and it's-

• 1:52:38Jocko Willink?

  Your mindset is changing. You're turning into a complete savage.

• 1:52:41Speaker 01

  Bro, it's way different.

• 1:52:42Jocko Willink?

  Little kids can't hurt you, and you can carry the mats by your own.

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and here's another-

• 1:52:45Jocko Willink?

  By your own, that's another thing, and that's another little expression I used, because my son, when he was, could, before he could talk well, he would, he would want to do something, he'd say, "Let me, he'd say, "I do it by my own."

• 1:52:56Speaker 01

  Right, right. He's trying to say, "By myself, or on my own."

• 1:52:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:59Speaker 01

  Mixed it.

• 1:53:00Jocko Willink?

  "By my own."

• 1:53:03Jocko Willink?

  So, that became-

• 1:53:05Speaker 01

  That's how, bro.

• 1:53:06Jocko Willink?

  That became a thing.

• 1:53:07Speaker 01

  Here's a legitimate one that, that just changed. It changed, um, this specific thing, where you know how I'd like, I'd be the kind, if I didn't get enough sleep, I'd just, I'd let it ruin me mentally.

• 1:53:21Speaker 01

  So, i- if I didn't have something specific, like, um, uh, important to do. So, just throughout the day, "Oh, I'm tired," you know, whatever. So, now, I, I never admit that I'm tired, ever.

• 1:53:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's, that's a good, great starting place.

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, even to myself.

• 1:53:34Jocko Willink?

  I've explained that to my son, is, is, you just don't admit, ever, that. Don't let those words come out of your mouth.

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:40Jocko Willink?

  "I'm tired, I'm sore, I'm whatever." Just, just stop. Because when you get in the teams, you, that's, that's just a, putting up a red flag of being a- plea pansy don't do it

• 1:53:50Speaker 01

  I know

• 1:53:51Jocko Willink?

  don't do it as a matter of fact you know what's jacked up is like I won't even let's say you and I were to go out let's say it was winter time and you and I were to go out and I had a sweatshirt with me

• 1:54:00Speaker 01

  mm hmm

• 1:54:00Jocko Willink?

  because I knew it might get cold

• 1:54:02Speaker 01

  right

• 1:54:02Jocko Willink?

  but we're out already and I have the sweatshirt in my hand

• 1:54:05Speaker 01

  you can't put it on

• 1:54:06Jocko Willink?

  I won't even put it on

• 1:54:07Speaker 01

  you can't

• 1:54:07Jocko Willink?

  can't put it on

• 1:54:08Speaker 01

  yeah yeah

• 1:54:09Jocko Willink?

  cuz then you then you might say were you were you cold

• 1:54:12Speaker 01

  I'm cold I need some warmth please yeah yeah oh dang that's a good one

• 1:54:17Jocko Willink?

  yeah

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  yeah I'm gonna do that too or should I say not do that

• 1:54:19Jocko Willink?

  yeah

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  bro I don't know remember that remember I think I told this story before remember the time we were driving from LA it was like late at night

• 1:54:26Jocko Willink?

  uh

• 1:54:27Speaker 01

  and you're like yeah I know I'm this big bad team guy or whatever but I'm kinda tired right now and then almost like you just it was painful to let the words out of your mouth you know like you let them slip and it really hurt you so it was like maybe like three seconds later you said but fuck it I'll just drive to Montana if I have to right now I'll just get in the except

• 1:54:48Jocko Willink?

  I'll go into team guy mode

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  but I won't tell nobody

• 1:54:50Jocko Willink?

  I was tired yesterday I was driving and and my wife says like are you you haven't been sleeping much are you okay to drive I was like yeah and I actually I did the same thing I was kinda like well I'm super tired I can drive indefinitely

• 1:55:04Speaker 01

  yeah yeah I don't know though though the I mean you I don't know maybe you're different maybe not but that's dangerous bro

• 1:55:10Jocko Willink?

  no I don't encourage people doing that

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  yeah

• 1:55:12Jocko Willink?

  don't encourage it that's a that's a horrible thing to do is drive when you're

• 1:55:16Speaker 01

  yeah

• 1:55:16Jocko Willink?

  super tired

• 1:55:17Speaker 01

  yeah

• 1:55:17Jocko Willink?

  yeah don't do that

• 1:55:18Speaker 01

  bro on Kauai it's um it's happened to me before but on Kauai it's really boring to drive cuz it's so easy it's just so like you don't so when you get like tired or sleepy or whatever it's really easy to just fall asleep super easy and that's hard because you can't control it it's like you think you can just I can control it and sure there is little tactics like you can like do little things that you know inflict pain on yourself whatever but man it's really hard to control it once you fall asleep

• 1:55:45Jocko Willink?

  yeah I know don't

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  don't do that

• 1:55:47Jocko Willink?

  don't do that you wake up in a bridge embankment just

• 1:55:51Speaker 01

  yeah

• 1:55:52Jocko Willink?

  dead

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  or wake up dead yeah

• 1:55:53Jocko Willink?

  yeah

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  that's bad

• 1:55:54Jocko Willink?

  that's not good

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  The, I was reading this thing on motivation and it said in this book, I'm not saying that this is true or not true, but it said it made sense where motivation, people misuse the word motivation and they confuse it with inspiration. So inspiration is like when someone gets you all revved up to do something, right? It's like what you're saying like, well, you know, let's do this or you see a mansion. Now you're inspired to work hard for stuff or whatever. Listen to some speech, some quote unquote motivational speech. It inspires, it doesn't motivate you. Motivation is your, your, your bare, raw motive, the motive for you doing it. So let's say, I feel like I said this before, but the, let's say I want to get in shape. You know how girls will get in shape for their wedding? You know, that's the motive is to be in shape for the wedding.

• 1:56:41Speaker 01

  So that doesn't go away. So she's not necessarily inspired, meaning she's like, um, she got infused with some feeling. You know.

• 1:56:49Jocko Willink?

  You just said motivation wouldn't go away, but it would.

• 1:56:52Speaker 01

  Well, it, no, no, here's the thing.

• 1:56:53Jocko Willink?

  The only thing that's gonna get her there is discipline.

• 1:56:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:56:56Jocko Willink?

  Because the motivation is she wakes up at five o'clock in the morning to go get a workout in before she goes to work. It's real easy to just be like, you know what? I'm not feeling motivated today.

• 1:57:04Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:57:05Jocko Willink?

  Maybe I'll just get the, get the wedding dress, you know, let out a little bit.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that just means that the motive, motivation, the motive isn't strong enough to overcome her feelings or lack of inspiration.

• 1:57:18Jocko Willink?

  That's why I don't rely on it. Cause you're not gonna find a motivation that's strong enough to make you do the things that you have to do all the time. You don't, you can't, doesn't exist.

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  It kinda, well, it depends, it just depends. So consider a fighter.

• 1:57:28Jocko Willink?

  Stop.

• 1:57:28Speaker 01

  Consider a fighter with a fight. He has to make weight.

• 1:57:31Jocko Willink?

  Bro.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right, guys don't make weight sometimes.

• 1:57:33Jocko Willink?

  Guys don't make weight all the time.

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying though, the motive just wasn't strong enough.

• 1:57:38Jocko Willink?

  You know when that motivation failed? That motivation failed, you know, five weeks ago.

• 1:57:42Speaker 01

  Five Guys Burgers.

• 1:57:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they had a Five Guys Burgers.

• 1:57:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

• 1:57:48Jocko Willink?

  So the discipline holds the line.

• 1:57:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does totally.

• 1:57:50Jocko Willink?

  Now you can have fun with it.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  And you can be motivated to have discipline.

• 1:57:53Jocko Willink?

  And you can say, oh.

• 1:57:57Jocko Willink?

  Like Pete Robbins from Origin Geese, I was up with him in Maine and he's like got a bet to lose weight. And he hit me with some false motivation because we were out, we were out and you know, we were order, I was ordering big steak and just getting after the grub.

• 1:58:13Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:58:14Jocko Willink?

  And I said, like, how many more pounds do you have? You know, we're talking about, I was like, is it kind of suck to sit here? He's like, no, I actually enjoy watching you eat delicious food. You know, little false motivation coming at you, but in a funny way.

• 1:58:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:26Jocko Willink?

  And instead of letting it out like that, instead of being just miserable, why not just have some fun with it?

• 1:58:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:58:33Jocko Willink?

  That's my advice.

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully. But then the difference though, like I said, I agree. You're, you're right. I mean, the point I was

• 1:58:41Speaker 01

  maybe making was, uh, was just the technical difference between motivation and inspiration. You know, you know how it's

• 1:58:48Jocko Willink?

  Can we not talk about that?

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  Hey, you motivate. No, you gotta know, you gotta know.

• 1:58:51Jocko Willink?

  No, because both those words just don't do much for me. They're flimsy, they're weak.

• 1:58:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:56Jocko Willink?

  They're weak words and they're weak and the, and the actual subjects are weak. Inspiration, motivation, like it's not gonna get you there.

• 1:59:06Speaker 01

  Come on, bro.

• 1:59:07Jocko Willink?

  It might get you through like a, the first three minutes of a, you know, you and I were just talking before you came in here. You, you said there was moments in your workout today when you could have easily, or yesterday you could have easily called it. Like, hey, man, I'm sweating. I got a good workout, but you didn't.

• 1:59:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:22Jocko Willink?

  You held the line.

• 1:59:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:59:24Jocko Willink?

  Discipline.

• 1:59:25Speaker 01

  Discipline. It was actually, I created false motivation, just truth be told, you're right, but I've created false motivation for myself. I just say, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. Actually, it's the way for me to facilitate discipline for myself is I want to do this because I'm going to feel better afterwards, you know, that whole deal.

• 1:59:43Jocko Willink?

  You're talking about discipline.

• 1:59:44Speaker 01

  And then you contrast it with how junk I'm gonna feel if I don't, weak, embarrassed for myself, by the way. And when I said that, um, you know how workout has many opportunities to stop?

• 1:59:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  So one, the first opportunity is in the parking lot. In this case, I went to a gym. So

• 1:59:59Jocko Willink?

  Bro, if you walk away when you're in the parking lot, you got issues.

• 2:00:02Speaker 01

  Bro, I've done that. I've done that like four times in my life.

• 2:00:04Jocko Willink?

  You have to admit that on the podcast. You should just lie.

• 2:00:08Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, well, it makes this current story more significant. So boom, that's the first opportunity. Second opportunity is before you warm up, which is pretty close to the first opportunity. Before you warm up.

• 2:00:20Jocko Willink?

  Have you ever quit then?

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:00:21Jocko Willink?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:00:22Speaker 01

  Twice.

• 2:00:23Jocko Willink?

  Geez.

• 2:00:24Speaker 01

  One time it felt real good because I justified it very effectively. And the second time I was like, I just got to get after it tomorrow, whatever. Nonetheless, then, then it's after the first body part or the first sort of, you know, you have, I'm going to do, you know, Metcon first, I'm going to do squats first. So, you know, it's after the first exercise for body part.

• 2:00:42Jocko Willink?

  Really?

• 2:00:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, okay.

• 2:00:43Speaker 01

  That's one opportunity.

• 2:00:44Jocko Willink?

  Like to me, the biggest hurdle is getting there, which, which is when you have your gym at your house. That's, that hurdle's gone.

• 2:00:50Speaker 01

  I agree that it gets easier to, to hold the line for sure after you start. But there's a part at the end, you know how like how you just said you like to do your Metcon like afterwards?

• 2:01:01Jocko Willink?

  No, lately I've been doing Metcon before and lifting heavy afterwards.

• 2:01:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's what I meant.

• 2:01:06Jocko Willink?

  Which is strange, but you're right. I could say, you know what? That Metcon was a little bit heavy. So maybe I'll just call it good on the, the heavy part.

• 2:01:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly right.

• 2:01:14Jocko Willink?

  But man, I feel so good when I'm all loosened up.

• 2:01:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, so same deal with me and I, you know, every opportunity to quit was passed, was waived.

• 2:01:25Jocko Willink?

  Well done, Echo Charles.

• 2:01:29Speaker 01

  Last question.

• 2:01:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I got time for one more.

• 2:01:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:01:33Speaker 01

  Jocko, I am a chronic excuse maker.

• 2:01:38Speaker 01

  How do I stop making excuses and get things done?

• 2:01:44Jocko Willink?

  The chronic excuse maker. How do you stop making excuses?

• 2:01:52Jocko Willink?

  This is actually pretty simple. And I said it the other day and you have to realize, you have to know, you have to accept that all your excuses are lies.

• 2:02:06Jocko Willink?

  They are lies, all of them.

• 2:02:10Jocko Willink?

  Think about the things that you tell yourself, the lies you use to rationalize taking the easy road.

• 2:02:19Jocko Willink?

  Taking the easy road and leaving discipline behind. Think about them.

• 2:02:27Jocko Willink?

  You don't have time.

• 2:02:30Jocko Willink?

  That's a lie.

• 2:02:32Jocko Willink?

  You don't have support.

• 2:02:36Jocko Willink?

  That's a lie. You don't have the equipment or the gear.

• 2:02:44Jocko Willink?

  Lies.

• 2:02:46Jocko Willink?

  You don't, you don't know the best way. Who cares? That's a lie. Or you're too old, or you're too young. Of course, you're too old or too young, lie.

• 2:02:59Jocko Willink?

  And there's, you're too busy. Sure you are. That's a lie.

• 2:03:09Jocko Willink?

  And you're too tired, or you're too sore, or you're just plain not feeling it. Lies, lies, lies. And the list goes on and on and on.

• 2:03:26Jocko Willink?

  And it doesn't stop. If you don't make it stop.

• 2:03:32Jocko Willink?

  So, recognize.

• 2:03:36Jocko Willink?

  Recognize.

• 2:03:39Jocko Willink?

  The excuses are not valid. They aren't.

• 2:03:45Jocko Willink?

  They're trumped up. They're conjured up, they're fabricated, they're lies.

• 2:03:53Jocko Willink?

  And how do you stop the lies? You stop the lies with the truth.

• 2:03:58Jocko Willink?

  The truth, the truth will set you free.

• 2:04:03Jocko Willink?

  The truth will stand and the truth will deliver you from procrastination and laziness and the downward spiral that comes with a lack of discipline.

• 2:04:21Jocko Willink?

  So, don't believe the lies, believe the truth. And the truth is, you have time. You have the skill, you have the knowledge and the support and the willpower and the discipline to get it done.

• 2:04:39Jocko Willink?

  So cast out the lies, burn them down.

• 2:04:49Jocko Willink?

  And listen to the truth and live the truth and go out and get it done.

• 2:05:02Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's all I've got for tonight. So Echo.

• 2:05:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:11Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of the truth.

• 2:05:13Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:05:13Jocko Willink?

  Could you perhaps explain to us how to support this podcast if we want to?

• 2:05:21Speaker 01

  If we want to, sure.

• 2:05:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:23Speaker 01

  What you can do is support yourself.

• 2:05:26Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:05:29Speaker 01

  I think I made this analogy before, you know, in the aircraft, right? Pre-takeoff, they go through the safety instructions in the event of cabin pressure loss.

• 2:05:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:38Speaker 01

  Oxygen tank mask comes down, put on yourself before you infant. All that, I mean, that's a good kind of thing where you support yourself. Then you can help support others. So support yourself is how with supplementation.

• 2:05:51Jocko Willink?

  Like it.

• 2:05:52Speaker 01

  And again, I'll say this again, I'll say it every day if I, if I am compelled, if I'm motivated to, inspired to. Either way, I'm now into supplements. Not a bunch, but before I was like, no supplements, you just get good nutrition. Anyway, so krill oil and I think this is a daily thing, by the way. And I think you can maybe relate. I think daily on how happy I am that I take krill oil.

• 2:06:24Speaker 01

  And I don't like think my lucky star, nothing like that. I'm just saying there are daily things that it's on my mind that I'm like, this experience would be different if I did not take krill oil straight up.

• 2:06:34Jocko Willink?

  That is true.

• 2:06:35Speaker 01

  So I got a, so I back my car into the garage.

• 2:06:41Jocko Willink?

  Loading mats?

• 2:06:43Speaker 01

  The, oh yeah, that, that was another time, but this was more recently. So it's getting feeling, you know, you fill up the five gallon things of water.

• 2:06:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:49Speaker 01

  And I talk about that. So I'm putting it like, you gotta maneuver it because I sit in the garage, I should have pulled out, but whatever. I'm maneuvering, I'm hardcore man, big time. So I'm maneuvering, gotta take it out and I don't want to, you know, so you, it's hard to explain, but you know, when you're in tight space.

• 2:07:06Speaker 01

  Whatever, man. Whatever. It's true. It's applicable. Everyday life. Krill oil isn't just for deep squats, heavy. It's for taking five gallons of water in a jug out of tight spaces where you gotta kind of twist, you know?

• 2:07:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:22Speaker 01

  Cause you don't want the car door to hit like the other car door and dent it.

• 2:07:24Jocko Willink?

  It's a good time to have the krill oil in you.

• 2:07:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. And, and really, that's, well, that's part of the payoff as well. Big part is the everyday things. It's true.

• 2:07:34Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 2:07:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. There'd be times where I'd be sitting down a long time and I stand up and I'm surprised on how little pain I feel. Not pain, you know what I'm saying?

• 2:07:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:44Speaker 01

  But you ever been like that where you think like?

• 2:07:46Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 2:07:46Speaker 01

  I'm gonna feel like, oh, this, this is gonna be stiff or this is gonna be hurt or whatever. And it's just simply not.

• 2:07:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that part is real. So get your krill oil. In the event of you even wanting krill oil. These are my experiences. Obviously Jocko's as well, cause you take krill oil as well.

• 2:08:03Jocko Willink?

  Indeed.

• 2:08:03Speaker 01

  Um, get them from Onnit, Onnit.com slash Jocko, if you want the 10% off. Also the AlphaBrain. So the krill oil, that's like, I don't think that'll ever go away.

• 2:08:12Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:08:15Speaker 01

  The AlphaBrain, I am using a lot more.

• 2:08:19Speaker 01

  I'm reading more too. Coincidence, maybe, maybe not. One might be causing the other. Correlation may not be causation, but I'm just saying that is happening. And I will admit this, as far as workouts go, I'm getting real into the kettlebells. You've always been into the kettlebells? Yeah.

• 2:08:39Jocko Willink?

  Not always, but you know, 15 years. No, no, no, not even, not even. No, I would say like,

• 2:08:46Jocko Willink?

  maybe 10 years or something, 12 years?

• 2:08:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:48Jocko Willink?

  Okay, maybe it has been 15 years.

• 2:08:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:51Jocko Willink?

  Cause I just remember that picture, Joe Rogan, I think Joe Rogan and I were talking about the picture of Fedor.

• 2:08:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, Fedor. Yeah, I looked that up right when you guys were talking about it. Pretty dope.

• 2:08:58Jocko Willink?

  The pictures of him with, and I was like, oh, okay, cool.

• 2:09:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:09:02Jocko Willink?

  Kind of hard to get him back then though.

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, yeah, so I think it was Joe Rogan saying how like somebody introduced him to America and that's, that's why. Some Russian guy. Yeah, man, they're, they're really good. Um, again, being careful every single moment. But I'm to the point right now where like, you know, you get kind of good and it gets even funner like anything. And then I'm like, oh, let me get that heavier one now. I want to get the heavier one. But I will say this about the kettlebells, about my experience. I started off the kettlebells getting these designer ones. You know, Primal Bells on it. Zombie bells, actually I didn't get the zombie, I got primal and then the legend werewolf ones. Anyway, they're cool, right? Cool to look at. So you know who I'm kinda like?

• 2:09:47Jocko Willink?

  Who?

• 2:09:48Speaker 01

  I don't know if I should be proud of this or ashamed of this, but I'm like the kid, you know, the teenager gets their driver's license. And there's two types of kids. There's the one kid who the dad's like, hey, you gotta learn to walk before you can fly. So you gotta like, I don't know, I'll make the down payment, you make the payments, that's what my dad used to say. Or you make the down payment or whatever, you know, like you gotta work for this first car and it might not be the, you know, the BMW, whatever. Then there's the other kid who rolls right into the BMW, you know, hey, good job, you're 15 now, big, big, big time of your life, time in your life, whatever.

• 2:10:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:21Speaker 01

  Here's a dope car. Congratulations. Love you, son. You know, then there's that guy. That's kinda who I am with the kettlebells, you know, I didn't like pay my dues, you know, when the kettlebells were new and all this.

• 2:10:32Jocko Willink?

  Straight to it.

• 2:10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:36Speaker 01

  The dope kettlebell. Werewolf, yeah. Anyway, a lot of cool stuff on there, on it.com, a lot of cool stuff on there. Uh, all legit stuff. That's, I think, the real compelling thing for me anyway. It's cause I know these supplements, man. They're whack. I've heard of people getting their supplements and then, you know, the supplement was like contaminated with something. And then they say, oh yeah, they just mix all the supplements in the same thing and the fact, it's like, it can be really whack. Nonetheless, on it, that's the good ones. Quality. So yeah, if you want 10% off on it.com slash Jocko. Strong bones, a good one too for your tendons, in my experience. Also,

• 2:11:16Speaker 01

  Amazon. So, where do we get these books? Sure, we didn't do books today, but we do what, what? 66% of the time, would you say?

• 2:11:24Jocko Willink?

  Probably something like that.

• 2:11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe more, sometimes more than one book.

• 2:11:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, last time we did three books.

• 2:11:29Speaker 01

  Three books, boom, all on the website, by the way.

• 2:11:30Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 2:11:31Speaker 01

  So, anyway, if you, this is another support yourself situation. A lot of time people ask, hey, you know, which book was that again? You know, and they gotta go back where.

• 2:11:38Jocko Willink?

  People ask for me for a reading list. Hey, do you have some kind of reading list? I'm like, yes, I got a reading list. It's on jocko podcast.com, every book that I, and, and by the way, are there books that, are there good books that you've read that, that you haven't put on the podcast? Not really. When I read a book and it's good, it's going on the podcast.

• 2:11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:55Jocko Willink?

  If I read a book and it's lame, it's not going on the podcast. Now, there's some books that are informational, but they don't cut it for the podcast.

• 2:12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:03Jocko Willink?

  I wouldn't recommend them. I'll tell you a little, a little, I just realized this. I had a book selected for the podcast. Like, three weeks ago. And I got a hundred pages into it. It didn't cut the mustard for the podcast.

• 2:12:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:17Jocko Willink?

  And I'll tell you, one of the major reasons, for those of you that recommend me books a lot. One of the major reasons that it didn't cut the mustard for the podcast is not only was it not a first-person account. But it didn't even have, like, a lot of excerpts of first-person accounts. It was just factually, this is what happened, this is what happened, this is what happened. It was very well detailed. It was a good book. But it wasn't podcast. Cause if you, if you wanna do that. If we're just gonna read facts, dates, facts, elements maneuvering. That's, that's, you could just, you, you, you listen to the audiobook, right? Or, or just go look on Wikipedia.

• 2:12:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:56Jocko Willink?

  And it's gonna tell you the dates and times and where the units maneuvered and who won the battle and how many people casualties they were. Right? All that stuff's in there. We don't want just that. I wanna hear what the people were thinking. I wanna hear it from the human beings.

• 2:13:07Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:13:08Jocko Willink?

  So even though there's people send me books, if you're gonna send me a book, look for the first-person account. If it's not a first-person account. Like Machete Season, that's not a first-person account, but it, it interviews the killers.

• 2:13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:19Jocko Willink?

  So you're hearing the first-person accounts.

• 2:13:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. Yep. And that reading list, so that reading list is pretty, pretty well-vetted then. Like, straight up, if it doesn't pass the Jocko approval of recommendation, it's not going on there. It's not going on this podcast.

• 2:13:35Jocko Willink?

  Not going on this podcast. No, no. I'd rather not do a podcast than put a lame book on the podcast. It's not happening.

• 2:13:41Speaker 01

  Boom, and that's the standard right there. So, JacoPodcast.com, top menu, little thing says, "Books from the Podcast." All of them, by episode. Yep. And what I'm kinda starting to do is like, let's say, you know how, like I mentioned that book, Mind, it's called Mind Games. Just a small, little book. I think it even costs.

• 2:14:00Jocko Willink?

  Did you put it on there?

• 2:14:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:01Jocko Willink?

  Somebody, somebody tweeted. I didn't know you put it on there.

• 2:14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'll put that kinda, if, if you're, if we mention a cool book, and let's say, for what, let's say it doesn't fit, or you didn't get to it or whatever, but there's some sort of a, for lack of a better term, buzz going around it, yeah, put it on there. Nonetheless, point there is, get the books from there, click through there. That's a good way to support. Small action, big reaction.

• 2:14:24Jocko Willink?

  And if you're just gonna shop for duct tape and other, you know, stuff that you need.

• 2:14:28Speaker 01

  Do that too. Click through the website.

• 2:14:30Jocko Willink?

  Double support.

• 2:14:31Speaker 01

  Double support, yes dang. Still one action, one big reaction. You understand what I'm saying? Also, subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, and other podcast providing platforms. Oh, that's a good way to support, of course, and also YouTube. Put some excerpts on there. When? Yesterday? Today? Yeah, yesterday. So, those are even, and I knew this before, but those are getting more and more, in my opinion, significantly valuable. Because even I, you know, I don't memorize every word of every podcast. But when I go through and I kinda look at it and, you know, and then, you know, I listen to it. Listen to the three minutes or whatever.

• 2:15:16Speaker 01

  It's like a good little reminder. It's like a refresher. And that's not to mention, let's say if I totally forgot it, you know?

• 2:15:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And not to mention, if you hear it and you go, "That reminds me of Bill." He's having that issue. Gonna send it over to Bill. No problem. Shareable.

• 2:15:32Speaker 01

  Yep, and he's gonna, he's gonna probably watch it as opposed to, "Hey, Bill, here's, here's the podcast I was talking about with your issue."

• 2:15:39Jocko Willink?

  It's three hours and 27 minutes long. Get some.

• 2:15:42Speaker 01

  Exactly. You're right, Bill. Might not listen to that quite yet. He might get around to it, might not. Not if he's in a hurry. Not if he has a busy life. Still might find a way. Anyway, but they are shareable and they're quicker, so you, when you click on it, you can listen to them, their excerpts, including those. And also other videos I'm gonna put on there, but, you know, we're working on those. So, yeah, YouTube, subscribe. Get some, as they say. Also, Jocko has a store. It's called Jocko Store. jockostore.com, that's the website. It's an online store. It's a good one. Just did a little revamping of it, little bit, little bit more user-friendly.

• 2:16:24Speaker 01

  Not that it wasn't user friendly before, but you know, you can, I don't know. It's, I think it's a little cleaner, whatever. But, you know, nonetheless, the shirts are still available there. If you like the shirts, you like the designs. Get some. I'm not saying just, hey guys, support by buying shirts. I'm not saying that. Not saying that at all. I'm saying, go to the website, jockostore.com. Check them out. If you like them. Get them. Support that way. That's how. Also some travel mugs on there, some bumper stickers.

• 2:16:58Speaker 01

  There's hoodies, but should we be wearing hoodies right now?

• 2:17:02Jocko Willink?

  Well, we shouldn't here.

• 2:17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:04Jocko Willink?

  We live in California, Southern California. Some people live in cold places.

• 2:17:10Speaker 01

  Like where?

• 2:17:12Jocko Willink?

  Alaska.

• 2:17:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's true.

• 2:17:15Jocko Willink?

  Norway.

• 2:17:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 2:17:20Speaker 01

  Also rash guards on there though. So, is it too soon to have like another rash guard? It's too soon, huh?

• 2:17:27Jocko Willink?

  I don't really necessarily think so.

• 2:17:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:30Jocko Willink?

  I actually think more rash guards is better.

• 2:17:32Speaker 01

  Is better, the more, the better, yeah. Well, hey, we got two out, so there's, you know, rash guards on there as well. Some women's stuff. And, um, yeah, if you want to support that way, get yourself a garment.

• 2:17:43Jocko Willink?

  There's a sick rash guard. The sick rash guard. Like I said, I've been hanging out a little bit with a guy named Pete Roberts from Origin Gee's up in Maine.

• 2:17:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:55Jocko Willink?

  My home of record for the military, by the way.

• 2:17:58Speaker 01

  Dig it.

• 2:17:58Jocko Willink?

  New England.

• 2:17:59Speaker 01

  Dig it.

• 2:18:00Jocko Willink?

  And he made a, he made a rash guard, like a special 4th of July day rash guard.

• 2:18:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:06Jocko Willink?

  And I'm gonna go ahead and say, affirmative, it's out of control.

• 2:18:12Jocko Willink?

  You gotta check it out. It is George Washington.

• 2:18:18Jocko Willink?

  Wearing a gi.

• 2:18:21Jocko Willink?

  Riding a snake, a giant snake, the don't tread on me snake.

• 2:18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:18:27Jocko Willink?

  So it's, I don't know if he's gonna make a lot of them, but if you don't have one, I think we all should basically have one. Originmaine.com, you can get one of those.

• 2:18:39Speaker 01

  Origin?

• 2:18:39Jocko Willink?

  Origin Maine, M A I N E.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:42Jocko Willink?

  Originmaine.com. And what, you know where, you know where they're made? Why don't you guess where they're made?

• 2:18:48Speaker 01

  Well, you figure Maine.

• 2:18:50Jocko Willink?

  No, you figure, oh, well, he's, if he's, if he's getting a rash guard, they're probably made in China.

• 2:18:56Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 2:18:56Jocko Willink?

  Or maybe they're made in Pakistan.

• 2:18:58Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 2:18:58Jocko Willink?

  Or maybe they're made in Taiwan.

• 2:19:01Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 2:19:01Jocko Willink?

  But there's also a whole bunch of places that make them like Sri Lanka and Vietnam and Thailand. Maybe they're made there. You'd be wrong on every single one of those, because you know where they're made? America.

• 2:19:13Jocko Willink?

  They're made in Maine.

• 2:19:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:15Jocko Willink?

  So you might want to order one.

• 2:19:18Speaker 01

  But do they source like the material?

• 2:19:20Jocko Willink?

  Everything, it's from Maine, it's from America. Pete's crazy.

• 2:19:25Speaker 01

  Pete.

• 2:19:26Jocko Willink?

  He doesn't play around. Specially woven. He's woven his, he weaves his own material for ghee's to make ghee's with.

• 2:19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:39Speaker 01

  That's straight up Maine.

• 2:19:40Jocko Willink?

  That's straight up. That's, this, this made in America. The cotton comes from South Carolina or something.

• 2:19:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:19:45Jocko Willink?

  Shipped up to Maine. Looms, you know what, do you even know what a loom is?

• 2:19:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, fruit of the loom. So it's like, here, and here's how I put it together ultimately. So loom, it makes, uh, you know, weave stuff, right? It's a little, it's a basically a big weaving machine. I mean, there's more to it than that, of course. So now I remember the brand, fruit of the loom.

• 2:20:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Oh, I get it.

• 2:20:05Speaker 01

  So it's like, that's the fruit.

• 2:20:06Jocko Willink?

  Fruit of the loom. Well.

• 2:20:08Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 2:20:10Jocko Willink?

  Origin actually has their own looms. Once again, here in Maine.

• 2:20:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, in your hometown. Layers, bro.

• 2:20:17Jocko Willink?

  My state, kind of.

• 2:20:18Speaker 01

  Layers, layers.

• 2:20:19Jocko Willink?

  Anyways, check those out.

• 2:20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:21Jocko Willink?

  And you'll, you'll be, um, to say you'll be fired up. I'm, I'm gonna go ahead and say you will be.

• 2:20:27Speaker 01

  Inspired.

• 2:20:28Jocko Willink?

  And it's funny too, because the, uh, the rash guard design, the American, the, uh, 4th of July rash guard design. It's, you know how things can get so over the top that they actually become cool?

• 2:20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

• 2:20:42Jocko Willink?

  That's where it's at. That's where it's at. And like me, I'm all about the subtle designs, right? You know, oh, what should we do? Make it black? And then don't put much on it. That's me. He took the other direction. I'm gonna have a giant snake. I'm gonna have George Washington with a black belt on in an origin gi. I'm gonna have, you know, that's what I'm talking about.

• 2:21:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:03Jocko Willink?

  America.

• 2:21:06Speaker 01

  That's kinda like on Kawaii when you go to the North Shore and you can go north, north, north, or you can go west, west, west, and you go too far, cause Kawaii's like a circle. Before you know it, you're essentially at the same place.

• 2:21:19Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah, that's...

• 2:21:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, see.

• 2:21:22Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. At first I wasn't following you. Yes, you do get to the same place.

• 2:21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you went, he went too crazy, he went too crazy, but he went so far in the world, in the realm of crazy, that it became dope, you know? Cause you have like, we consider dope is like the perfect mix of crazy and understated and current, contemporary, or rebellion against.

• 2:21:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:44Speaker 01

  But he went in that one direction that you don't really go for, you know, mass acceptance, and then he took it too far. And now it's right into...

• 2:21:52Jocko Willink?

  Right where it needs to be.

• 2:21:53Speaker 01

  Dopeness. Speaking of dopeness.

• 2:21:56Jocko Willink?

  Go.

• 2:21:58Speaker 01

  Psychological warfare. Hey, here's a question. Tough question. Psychological warfare. Is this false motivation? Wait, wait, let me explain what it is. So Psychological Warfare is an album with tracks of Jocko saying, basically, you know, in moments of weakness on your journey, whatever, waking up early, sticking to the diet, you know, trying to get stuff done, you know, anti-procrastination stuff. You can play these tracks and Jocko will tell you how to get over that weakness for that moment. So, the question is, is that false motivation?

• 2:22:39Speaker 01

  Cause you did mention that you can use the false motivation.

• 2:22:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, maybe you are at that point.

• 2:22:43Speaker 01

  Right?

• 2:22:44Jocko Willink?

  It is possible.

• 2:22:45Speaker 01

  You just can't depend on it. You can't be like, hey, this, this is my whole thing.

• 2:22:49Jocko Willink?

  No, yeah, that's a good point. It's gonna get you there, but you, if you're not disciplined yourself, those tracks aren't gonna do anything for you.

• 2:22:54Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah, exactly. So, well, okay, these, Mike.

• 2:22:58Jocko Willink?

  Cause they are pretty good.

• 2:22:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're pretty powerful. But it was like, I always say.

• 2:23:02Jocko Willink?

  And I know we gotta make Psychological Warfare 2. Uh, I've, I've, I gotta continue to gather a couple more tracks that I'm thinking about and what people have been asking for, so that they can, you know, have a little, little spot if they need it.

• 2:23:15Speaker 01

  Spot, exactly, right. Yeah, so just.

• 2:23:18Jocko Willink?

  You know what I was thinking of naming Psychological Warfare 2?

• 2:23:21Speaker 01

  What?

• 2:23:21Jocko Willink?

  Psychological Warfare 2.

• 2:23:24Speaker 01

  Dang, bro. Dang. Advance for advance. But yeah, that is what it is. It's a spot. So, just like false motivation, that can be just like a spot. Like, you can't roll into the gym with your workout partner and be like, hey, I'm gonna get under this bench. It's 4:05 on there. I want you to do the whole thing. I want you to upright row.

• 2:23:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that ain't a lot.

• 2:23:44Speaker 01

  You know, yeah, you don't, that's not what a spot's for. It's not what any of this thing is for. It's, I'm gonna do this. In the unlikely event that I run into something that might cause me to fail, you got me that rest of the way. That's it. That's what Psychological Warfare is too, by the way. But in my experience and opinion, you can lean on that pretty heavily. It'll get you through. It's my opinion.

• 2:24:07Jocko Willink?

  Also, Jocka White Tea on Amazon. You can get that there.

• 2:24:15Jocko Willink?

  And I guess I got asked on Twitter if I ever used any performance enhancing drugs, you know? And I said no, but honestly, let's just go ahead and face it.

• 2:24:26Jocko Willink?

  White Tea is kinda the king of performance enhancement, as far as I've seen. So, obviously, it's the only substance on the market that is guaranteed to add 7,554 pounds to your deadlift.

• 2:24:46Jocko Willink?

  So is that performance enhancing?

• 2:24:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:24:49Jocko Willink?

  Luckily, it's not being tested for right now.

• 2:24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:52Jocko Willink?

  By the USDSA SP.

• 2:24:55Speaker 01

  USA.

• 2:24:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, them. So, so, so right now, you can get it.

• 2:24:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get it.

• 2:25:00Jocko Willink?

  You can just get that massive increase in everything that you do. That's cool. Also, way the warrior kid. And man, so many people have been posting pictures of kids doing pull ups and kids pulling tires and kids studying flashcards and kids making their own warrior kid codes and memorizing the presidents. And it's

• 2:25:28Jocko Willink?

  honestly, it's awesome to see kids in their first jujitsu class. It's so good to see. So thanks everyone that has posted that. And, and shown what's going on and spreading the word. Thank you for doing that. And if you really actually want to support this podcast, don't worry about the podcast. Don't support the podcast. Don't worry about it. Go buy this book for some kids that you know. Because the feedback is just, it's awesome. It's awesome to see. And I can see that is absolutely impacting kids. And I just couldn't be happier about that. And if you want to help, don't worry about me. Don't worry about Echo Charles.

• 2:26:11Jocko Willink?

  Get, get this book for some kids. It's the book we should have had when we were kids.

• 2:26:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:26:16Jocko Willink?

  Get kids on the right path. I guess if you really want to support, you could, you could get it through Amazon.

• 2:26:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:26:21Jocko Willink?

  Then you'd be good. Do double gravitational.

• 2:26:24Speaker 01

  Double.

• 2:26:26Jocko Willink?

  Also, discipline equals freedom field manual. So many questions that I get asked are answered in the book beyond what I, you know, workouts, food, sleep.

• 2:26:40Jocko Willink?

  Plus, it's also contains the core of my belief system.

• 2:26:47Jocko Willink?

  What keeps me going? How I overcome setbacks? Everything, it's all in there. And I'll tell you, it's not a normal book. This is not normal. This is not a normal book in any stretch. My publisher says he's never seen a book, anything close to this. It's outside the box of anything. I've never seen anything like it. So we're going out on a little limb here.

• 2:27:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:09Jocko Willink?

  It's sort of like the podcast. Cause there's not too many podcasts, there's no podcast that's doing what we're doing. Is there?

• 2:27:16Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:27:17Jocko Willink?

  Well, I haven't heard one.

• 2:27:18Speaker 01

  Not that I know of.

• 2:27:18Jocko Willink?

  I haven't heard one.

• 2:27:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, me neither.

• 2:27:20Jocko Willink?

  So it's sort of like that.

• 2:27:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:27:23Jocko Willink?

  We're entering the same zone. In my opinion, there's words there. There's pages there, yes, like normal books. There's patterns there, there's layers there.

• 2:27:37Jocko Willink?

  And it comes out October 17th, so order it up. You can get that first batch. You want the one that says first edition, right?

• 2:27:43Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:27:44Jocko Willink?

  It's the one you want on the inside cover. The one that says first printing. That's the one you want. And also, you know, you know, your friend that's off the path?

• 2:27:55Jocko Willink?

  You know?

• 2:27:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:27:55Jocko Willink?

  Your friend, oh, you grew up with this friend, they're off the path. Get one for them. It's not normal, not a normal book. The one that needs discipline, get him this book.

• 2:28:06Jocko Willink?

  Also, of course, extreme ownership.

• 2:28:09Jocko Willink?

  Combat leadership, lessons from the battlefield to use in your business and your life. Wherever you're leading. Whoever you're leading, extreme ownership. You can pick that one up. Also, Echelon Front, Leadership and Management Consulting, me, Leif Babbin, JP Donnell, Dave Burke.

• 2:28:29Jocko Willink?

  You want to get your leadership team unified?

• 2:28:34Jocko Willink?

  Email [email protected], we'll come and make it happen. And finally, the muster.

• 2:28:42Jocko Willink?

  The first muster that we did in San Diego, sold out. The one we did in New York, sold out. The one we're doing in Austin, sold out. So, if you wanted to come to those and you didn't make it, sorry, you know? But we are back in San Diego, September 14th and 15th. Back at the Omni Hotel Downtown Muster 004. New material, by the way. New material, but same attitude. Same passion. We're gonna bring it, we're gonna burn it down. We will see you there. And until we do see you there, we'll see you on the interwebs.

• 2:29:22Jocko Willink?

  On Twitter, Instagram, and that's Facebooky boach.

• 2:29:32Jocko Willink?

  Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And thanks, once again, for listening to those in uniform, especially those overseas.

• 2:29:44Jocko Willink?

  Thank you for being strong and brave and standing up for what you and we believe in.

• 2:29:53Jocko Willink?

  And also thanks to police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, and other first responders. Thanks for keeping us safe here at home and to everyone else out there. Like First Lieutenant Leonard Isaacs asked.

• 2:30:14Jocko Willink?

  See how you can help people.

• 2:30:18Jocko Willink?

  Ask how you can help them and clean up what's around you.

• 2:30:24Jocko Willink?

  And never run away from something you're afraid of.

• 2:30:30Jocko Willink?

  And as Dr. Horikova told us.

• 2:30:35Jocko Willink?

  Whether you're at an operating table, or a lathe, or a sewing machine, or on a construction side, or your child's cradle, or wherever you're working.

• 2:30:48Jocko Willink?

  Do your work skillfully, honestly, and happily, and with your whole being.

• 2:31:00Jocko Willink?

  Do your best in everything you do, and as they both taught us, remember.

• 2:31:11Jocko Willink?

  Our time here is short.

• 2:31:17Jocko Willink?

  So get out there and live.

• 2:31:22Jocko Willink?

  And until next time. This is Echo and Jocko. Out.