417: Put Your Helmet on and Take Some Risks. With Danica Patrick

As a racecar driver, Danica Patrick broke barriers and set records with her on-track performance. With her racing career behind her, Danica looks to her next chapter as she focuses on her passions: good food, great wine, fitness and helping others achieve their goals. Danica joined the mainstream ranks by succeeding in the male-dominated world of professional motorsports. Danica was named to TIME’s “100 Most Influential People” list, has graced the cover of many prestigious publications and was featured in pictorials in the 2008 and 2009 Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. She has appeared in a record-setting 14 Super Bowl commercials Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 417 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:06Jocko Willink?

  I have to think about everything happening around me outside the car, like when to come in for a pit stop and what kind of stop I'm making, whether it's a short stop or a long stop, changing tires or just adding fuel or adjustments I want made to the car in my next pit. I'm thinking about where the other drivers are on the track and the order we're all driving in. Who's a lap down and who I'm racing against? Whom will I risk driving next to, especially if they are behind me in the standings? There's a lot happening inside the car, too. I'm constantly adjusting my suspension, monitoring all my engine functions and adjusting my fuel mixture, switching between full power and various conversion levels according to the fuel strategies.

• 0:48Jocko Willink?

  When you drive an open cockpit car, there's a constant deluge of flying debris, including rubber from the tires, often referred to as marbles, exhaust fumes, oil on the track, stones or pebbles and so on. Everything on the track becomes a potential hazard and a problem when it comes to seeing while I drive. Several times during the race, I removed tear offs, which are layered plastic like protectors that sit on top of polycarbonate shield on my helmet to protect my eyes. With all this going on and so much more, I have to keep my mind clear so I can focus on what I have to do that day to complete, to compete, let alone win. One mistake can cost me the race or worse.

• 1:33Jocko Willink?

  Racing is a rhythm, a cacophony of thought, skill and teamwork. There was a lot riding on this race. I knew I had what it would take to give the boys a good challenge. Like every other race of my career, I had something to prove.

• 1:54Jocko Willink?

  And that right there is an excerpt from the book called Danica Crossing the Line, which is written by Danica Patrick, a race car driver who's raced everything from go karts to Formula Fords to Indy cars to NASCAR. And she's the most successful woman in the history of American open wheel car racing. And it's a pleasure to have Danica here with us tonight to discuss her experiences and lessons learned. Danica.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Jaco.

• 2:27Jocko Willink?

  Thanks for joining us.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Thank you. I love that intro.

• 2:30Jocko Willink?

  Well, that's a badass intro.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  We have a lot going on in the car.

• 2:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I was thinking about that. And then you think about the danger and that, how much are you thinking about danger? How much, when you're, when you're strapping in to your vehicle, how much are you thinking about getting killed?

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Um, a little, a little, or at least hurt. Um, so yeah, I always prayed before I went out for safety and that the angels would like surround my car and take care of me. But then once I'm out there, nothing. Yeah.

• 3:06Jocko Willink?

  I had, I've had a bunch of people on the podcast, a bunch of combat veterans, and I had one guy on that was, his name was Dean Ladd, he was in the Marine Corps in World War II. And he did multiple island campaigns over in the Pacific where the Marine Corps was taking massive casualties. And he was on, I think it was his third island he was going into, it was the island of Tarawa. And we were talking about, as he was getting ready to go in, and they're on the little landing craft, and he's talking about, I'm reading from a book that he had written, and I'm reading it, and I look up at him, I'm like, I said, how are you, are you thinking about getting wounded or killed while this is happening? And he goes, no, that's gonna happen to the other guy.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  Such a cooler answer.

• 3:49Jocko Willink?

  It's such a common thing for military, like, young military people that you think that people can get wounded and killed, but you don't think it can be you. And then I think some guys get older and they start realizing that that's just not true and that they can get it too. So, I don't know, I imagine when you're younger, you're prob- maybe you're a little bit more cavalier, or maybe you think about it less, but certainly you've, you saw enough people get hurt or killed over your career.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 4:22Jocko Willink?

  Where you had to start thinking about like, hey, this could be me next time.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Uh, when I started my 2006 season, um, my teammate died in the morning warm-up. That morning, and then we didn't race that day as a team. The rest of the, the rest of the series raced, but, um, as a team, we didn't. And then my very last race in Las Vegas, uh, when I was full-time in IndyCar before I went to NASCAR, uh, Dan Weldon was killed on lap 11 and I was almost part of it. I remember feeling like I really obviously wanted to win my last race and I was fast. I think I might've been fastest in practice. And I thought, I know I'm gonna have to do some really dumb things if I'm going to win because there's just a lot of dumb stuff going on out there right now.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  There were a lot of drivers that just weren't really super respectful of each other and weren't as familiar with oval racing because it was an oval and, and just, just didn't really follow the, follow the rules, the unspoken rules. And I talked to my dad and he was like, look, you don't have anything to prove. You go out there and you drive like yourself. You don't have anything to prove. And I'm glad he said that because I went out there and I was, we're starting lap 11 and this car came in front of me and just like cut me off. And my mindset before my dad talked to me was like, anything, you just gotta stick it in there, you just gotta be aggressive and you just gotta crash people, whatever.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  So I lifted and it's my instinct anyway, so I'm not hundred percent sure I could have overcome the instinct, but, um, but I went into the race with a little bit of a different mindset than I previously had, you know, the day before. And, um, and that car in front of me was part of this enormous crash in turn one and in turns one and two that killed Dan. And so the car in front of me was caught up in it. He spun off and crashed. Almost everyone behind me did too. It was like we did one more lap around because they just couldn't red flag the, the race quick enough. And it was like a movie scene. There was just chunks of bodywork on fire. There was just cars everywhere. It truly looked like a Hollywood movie scene from a race.

• 6:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I want to say, uh, this is off the top of my head, but I watched that crash. I want to say fifteen cars were involved in the crash and nineteen weren't. You order the nineteen that weren't, but like that's almost half the field.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  That sounds about right. That's most of the field. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, it was a very, it was a, it was obviously a very, um, very, very sad day, traumatic day. Dan died, um, died on impact really and blunt head trauma. And, um, you know, other drivers saw it. I mean, some, some drove by it, some got out of their cars and literally saw him. Um, and, um, then we waited around for the decision and we did one sort of parade lap together and, uh, in memory and we didn't race at all that day. That was it. So mortality is something that, I mean, what's the benefit of that is a real question, you know? I mean, you know, when you're young, you're fearless, you're not thinking about dying.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  I wonder about why it starts creeping in. I, I really didn't think about how dangerous the sport was until I was done because it wasn't productive before that. It wasn't like I was unaware, but I remember I retired in two thousand eighteen and two thousand nineteen, I was on pit road and I was, uh, commentating for the race. So I was sitting next to Mike Tirico and it passes off to the booth, which is where the play-by-play happens. And I'm sitting down there and I'm finally having the first opportunity to like grab something, a snack or something, something to drink. And I'm like snacking on these apple chips is like the front, like the start of the race is coming. The cars are coming at us at two hundred miles an hour for the green flag. And I, at that point went, oh my God, these guys are crazy.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  I don't, I can't believe I did this. Now I know why my friends that came to my first Indy 500 were like, you know, I mean, at that point, I'm only 23 and they thought, we can't believe you're in that car out there doing that. Like, we don't, it just doesn't make sense. And it just doesn't. It's so crazy what, what we're capable of as humans. And almost like in a non-thought way. I don't know if the things that you did were like that, but there's so much that just happens. It's like coming through you. Because if I had to think about it, even if I had to think about something simple like a pit stop, it's so complicated, all the little things that you have to do and the moments and the turn and the clutch and the brake and all the, just like sequencing that was so overwhelming. But when you did it, you did it.

• 9:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I would have a similar thing going up to like, if we're doing a target assault, like a direct action mission. And as we're rolling up to the target, so you're maybe five minutes away, so you know it's about to happen. And that's when I would be, that's when I would be thinking through, and that's when I would be worried. And what I'd be worried about is I'd be worried about one of my guys getting hurt or killed. That's what I'd be worried about. And you'd be thinking, oh, did we come up with the right plan? Are we doing this the right spot? What's the enemy gonna do? Are we prepared? And then, but then as soon as we got there, and I would say, execute, execute, execute on the radio, and the thing starts, you're not thinking about anything but getting the job done and just reacting off what's in front of you and making decisions. But you're not overly thinking

• 9:45Jocko Willink?

  the decisions. You're just kind of making them, almost, almost instinctually, based on the things that you've known and the things that you've learned and the training that you've done. So, yeah, there's definitely some similarities there. I, I've heard this expression for the first time the other day, thinking about walking upstairs. Like, if you think about walking upstairs, it's hard.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, this is so true. It's totally happened to me. I actually think about it with down. And I have this weird thought, I'm like, why is this creeping in that I like, need to be careful for my step and think about my walking downstairs? And I thought, is this some like subconscious awareness of like, maybe in the future, I won't be able to walk upstairs well or something. But I thought, why am I thinking about this? And when you don't think about it, so much, it just happens.

• 10:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so much easier. And people get caught up, people get caught up, and I'm sure you could get caught up in driving where if you're thinking about what you're doing, it's going to cause a problem. Whereas if you just do what you, without really thinking about it, it's going to be easier.

• 10:46Jocko Willink?

  I guess because that computer system in our head already sort of has a protocol to follow and when we start interrupting it with new thoughts, it just throws it off.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, and maybe it takes from assessing what else is going on. So the autopilot of the muscle memory and the programming of something simple like walking down steps or even just, you know, what you do when you jump out of the car and you go into, you're going into combat, like you know all those things, you've practiced those things a bunch. And so what you don't have then, if you're thinking about it, is your extra sensory to deal with the new.

• 11:20Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm. Cause that's, that's the only thing that matters.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:24Jocko Willink?

  You know how to do everything else.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 11:26Jocko Willink?

  You know the patterns and there's one little deviation from the pattern, that's what you could, gotta contend with. Not all the other stuff you already know how to do.

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:32Jocko Willink?

  All right. All right. Well, good little, we already deviated here a little bit. All right. Let's start at the beginning. Let's, let's start at the beginning. So you're born where? Wisconsin?

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Technically, yes.

• 11:41Jocko Willink?

  But then you grew up in?

• 11:43Speaker 02

  I grew up in Illinois. So I was born in Beloit, Wisconsin, but we lived in South Beloit, Illinois. So it was just the closest hospital. But yeah, grew up right on the border in the middle of cornfields.

• 11:53Jocko Willink?

  And your, what did your mom do for, was she?

• 11:56Speaker 02

  She, so my mom and dad met on a blind date at a snowmobile race when they were in their early twenties, very early twenties. And my, my mom was actually at the racetrack because she was helping out a friend that was a girl that was racing and she was in charge of putting the studs in this, in the belt of the snowmobile. She was named Captain Traction. So my dad had a date, a blind date with Captain Traction and they hit it off and, and I came along and, and so, yeah, I mean, racing is just totally in our family. And my dad, my dad was racing at the time, snowmobiles. He raced snowmobiles, midgets, motocross. So he, he loved it, knew how to do it.

• 12:37Jocko Willink?

  What did he do for a living?

• 12:38Speaker 02

  Um, he was, he ended up being a glazer. So he would install windows in buildings and, you know, like two story buildings at the most and.

• 12:47Jocko Willink?

  But he's like a gear, gearhead his whole life?

• 12:50Speaker 02

  But totally racing. Yeah. He knows how to build anything. He built a sled from scratch. Like he, he can. He's he could rebuild the clutches. That's actually what he does now. He has a carbon fiber business and he balances clutches and builds carbon fiber parts for cars and clutch covers that are carbon fiber.

• 13:08Jocko Willink?

  And so

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Super handy. And so my mom, you asked what she did. She was um, so they met really young. So she really didn't do much, but she went to school for accounting. So she was an accountant and then that was that ended and she she lived in northern Minnesota then. And so my dad grabbed her and took her took her downtown to to Wisconsin. Um, so uh, so yeah, they they they got married in nineteen eighty. So they were in their early twenties.

• 13:34Jocko Willink?

  And so your dad's a gearhead building stuff and he built you a go-kart. Is that right?

• 13:40Speaker 02

  He put it together. He put it together. We bought the go-karts and then he built everything.

• 13:44Jocko Willink?

  With these like standard like Sears go-karts type things?

• 13:47Speaker 02

  No, they're

• 13:48Jocko Willink?

  Out of the gate or they're a little bit more hyped up?

• 13:49Speaker 02

  No, no, no, they're hyped up. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And actually, the very first time I drove a go-kart, I crashed.

• 13:56Jocko Willink?

  Well, what went down?

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Well, dad, dad screwed up.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  He um, so he got them built. My sister started at the same time because actually it was my sister who wanted to race, not me. I've realized

• 14:09Jocko Willink?

  Older than you or younger than you?

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Two years younger.

• 14:11Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  So she was eight and I was ten. And what I've realized as I've grown up is that I I really, it's not always my idea, but I'm up for it. Like, I'm up for the challenge. I'm up for the, I love to know. I love to like, I really, well, I'm sure we'll get into it, but I really love to push my comfort zone. Um, but it's not always my idea. So anyway, um, so Brooke wanted to race and the go-karts are ready. So we went out in this back parking lot and uh, my dad put like big, you know, spray cans, WD-40 brake cleaner, like made a big circle with all the cans and was like, all right, girls, go around. And so we're going around the circle and I went to hit the brake and it went, it fell to the floor. Like, there was nothing there. And so there's a cotter pin that came out of the lever and so it just, there had no, had no attachment.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  And so I'm ten and I'm have no idea what I'm doing, so I just go straight and I'm like, oh no, ah, I'm in a crash, I'm gonna die. And anyway, so I'm headed towards this this construction truck. You know, construction trailer, sorry, trailer, you know, they're to kind of higher, they're more elevated. Well, it was about yay high, which is neck height. And I was headed right for that. And at the last second, I veered over and hit a concrete wall head on. And like, my arms fly back and my arm lands on the exhaust and burns my cool puffy jacket. And like, I bruised my legs all up the inside because I because there's uprights that attach the searing column. And that's where the fuel

• 15:40Speaker 02

  tank is is in between your legs right there. So like, I flew forward after I came back and like bruised my legs. And so my dad came over and um, and guess what he did?

• 15:51Jocko Willink?

  Put fix the brakes and put you back in it?

• 15:53Speaker 02

  He bought a new go kart.

• 15:54Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Literally, because he because he was like, it's twisted. So you're not going to be fast in a twisted go kart. It's just crashed. You literally can't see that it's twisted, but he's so experienced, he just knows that you can't crash something and expect it to be the same again. And when it comes true from the manufacturer, that's how you want it. You don't want a crashed go kart. So uh, so I got a new one. And guess who got my twisted go kart? My mom. My mom started racing. So um, yeah, it was uh, that was that was the beginning. And

• 16:31Jocko Willink?

  And you were into it, even though you even though you crashed and nearly killed yourself out of the gate, you were into it?

• 16:36Speaker 02

  I I don't know if I was into it as much as I was up for it. So I we would go to the track and practice. I didn't know this until much later in my life, but Wednesdays were apparently open practice day. So we'd go and I was asking to go to these open practice days. I loved I love the process. Another thing that I've realized that I love is I love the process. And and so I love sort of setting a goal and achieving it. I loved hearing my lap time was faster. And so when we'd practice, this would happen. And so Um, so I got better and better. I mean, I couldn't even keep up. My sister and I couldn't even keep up on the parade laps, like when everybody's going slow, formation laps, couldn't even keep

• 17:19Speaker 02

  up on those laps. Um, but halfway through the season, um, I started winning and I, I set the track, I set the track record.

• 17:26Jocko Willink?

  Started winning and getting the track record.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:29Jocko Willink?

  So you had a nat-, you had some kind of natural ability for this?

• 17:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess.

• 17:32Jocko Willink?

  Cause there, there, there has to be, there has to be some kind of natural ability, right?

• 17:36Speaker 02

  He said, he, he did see it. He did see it. Yeah. He, he was like, and then after that, he, after the first year, he, he just kept pushing me.

• 17:44Jocko Willink?

  What about your sister?

• 17:45Speaker 02

  We just kept going further.

• 17:46Jocko Willink?

  Was she not into it?

• 17:46Speaker 02

  So my sister, she was okay. I mean, we weren't much different, obviously, but she, I probably progressed a little bit more, but she got banged around a lot. I mean, she was probably forty-five pounds when we started. So you have to weigh up the go-kart to a minimum weight.

• 17:59Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  And her seat was absolutely bulletproof. That thing had so many sheets of metal on it to like wa-, get the car the right, cart the right weight. And, um, she would fly down the straightways, this little lightweight thing, but then she'd slow down too much in the corners and people were literally driving over her. And so she just didn't like it.

• 18:15Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  And she quit.

• 18:17Jocko Willink?

  What, what is the natural skillset? Is it like spatial recognition? Is it like hand-eye coordination? What do you think it is that makes someone a really good driver?

• 18:26Speaker 02

  I love that I'm talking about this with you because I think that you'll be able to help me with this. So I've been talking about this a bit lately and quite a bit. And

• 18:40Speaker 02

  just say it simple. I think that not a lot of people have like a killer instinct in them. And in particular, I don't think women do. So I talk about this from a, my standpoint as a female mostly, but, but I really believe like you have to, you have to have this killer instinct that when people push you around, you want to push back.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  So like I could be walking down the street and I could, it could be like dark in the middle of the night and in a bad part of town and I'm literally walking down the street looking at people going, can we swear on this?

• 19:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you can swear on this.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Looking down the street like, I dare you to fuck with me. Dare you. Like I think that kind of thing. And so I really believe you need to have that level of aggression of pushing back. You also need to have incredible focus. Your ability to focus has to be super high. You have to be able to stay calm because when you get upset and you start getting angry or yelling or getting mad or frustrated, it takes you out of the game. So sort of your, your, your mental capacity to handle a lot of things and do it with a level of calm. I honestly feel like this has to be similar to what you dealt with.

• 19:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, certainly. All those things are very important because you've got to be aggressive. In fact, I talk about being default aggressive. That's going to be your default mode. Your default mode is going to be like, I'm going to make something happen. I'm going to go attack this problem. I'm going to go solve this problem. If your default mode is like, hold on, I'm going to wait and see what happens, you're going to be too late. Now, there are times when your default aggressive decision is to not do anything like, oh, I see what's happening, but I'm going to take a step back and wait for a second. That's okay, but you have to be proactive in your mindset and then you absolutely have to be able to remain calm. If you're getting emotional, it's going to be a problem. So those things are really important. And then being able to, and I guess this is part of being calm, but being able to take a step back and see what's happening. And I know you played basketball too, right? Like, so you were a point guard in basketball?

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:40Jocko Willink?

  So you're a point guard in basketball and being able to see the floor, right? Being able to see the open players, being able to see more than just like the basket, your defender and the ball, you're not going to be a terrible point guard. You have to be able to see everyone on the court and be able to see where the open people are. So I think those kinds of things are very similar that would make you good as a driver, which I don't know what makes you good as a driver. I've done a little bit of driving. We went to a school where we'd learn how to.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:07Jocko Willink?

  We learned how to. Actually, I went to a cool school where we learned how to hotwire cars and steal them and then race them.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Sorry, this is a school?

• 21:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  This isn't a gang?

• 21:20Jocko Willink?

  No. It was a school and we learned how to hotwire cars and then we learned how to, you know, go fast in the cars and we learned how to like do pit moves and all that. Do you know what pits are? You call it pit moves, right? That's a common term. No, it's not a pit stop. So a pit move, I forget what it actually stands for, but it's when you, when you hit another car in a way that causes a desired reaction.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  Oh, just spin them out or something like that?

• 21:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, like hit their left rear when they're turning or something.

• 21:44Jocko Willink?

  That's exactly right. So we learned how to do that and then we do it a bunch. And so, but it was a cool school.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:50Jocko Willink?

  Uh, you can't, it's really hard to steal modern cars unless you have special equipment for those cars. But like in the early eighties, late seventies and be before that, you can steal anything.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Coat hanger, baby.

• 22:03Jocko Willink?

  Like you just walk up, just, it was so easy to steal them and we'd, we'd get put on a timer. And they'd have a parking lot full of cars. You have to like run out, select which car you want to steal, steal it and then drive at a certain time and.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  And what would stealing, uh, what's the, uh, skill set for?

• 22:18Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you're in a foreign country and you are on a foot patrol or you're, you're doing something very clandestine where you're wearing civilian clothes or you're in a semi-permissive environment. So there's, there's maybe not an open war going on, but all of a sudden you get yourself into a jam and you need to get out of there. Cool. We're going to jack a car. Let's go.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Yeah.

• 22:36Jocko Willink?

  So I, I learned a little bit about driving, you know, just from doing that, you know, we, we would, we went through, you know, some, some drive, race, drive, race car driver taught us like some basics about driving. But I mean, I'm talking like completely rudimentary. So I don't want to get too crazy.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  It's already infinitely more than most know.

• 22:55Jocko Willink?

  Which is weird, right?

• 22:56Speaker 02

  Do you feel like you're good on the road? Did you feel like all those skills helped you to drive on the road better?

• 23:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they definitely did. Yep, they did. And I grew up in New England where it snows.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:05Jocko Willink?

  And I grew up in New England where we have dirt roads and we have snow covered roads. And so we do like rally race cars all the time. Yeah. We would do J turns and all that stuff. So I was lucky to be able to do that before I came in to the military. So I had a little bit of driving skills.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Well, I have an idea for a company that I want to start.

• 23:21Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  I want to, I want to, I wanted to start a driving school, but not a racing school, like a driving on the road school.

• 23:27Jocko Willink?

  That'd be good.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Because I drive so easily on the road because I can drive on the racetrack. So. I got to, I have to imagine that the curriculum for driving on the road has not changed in like seventy years, I'm sure. So it needs to be new and you need to be able to do more because so many people suck.

• 23:46Jocko Willink?

  When you think about what driving is on a regular road and the dangers that it entails, it's a miracle that there's not the people. Well, I think we do have like forty thousand people killed a year.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  I agree with you.

• 23:57Jocko Willink?

  From driving.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  I think to myself, I'm like one decision away from.

• 24:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  Terrible.

• 24:02Jocko Willink?

  You're going, and, and some of these people are fifteen, sixteen years old and, yeah.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  They have no, they just don't have a big enough scope. They've never, what I always tell people when they drive on the road is I'm like, just stay in your comfort zone. That's it. If you get outside of your comfort zone, you start freaking out, right? You start panicking and you make poor decisions. Which is why if you do something like what you did, where you go and you learn how to spin and steal and drive fast and crash people. Like you all of a sudden get a beyond normal scope of awareness of what's possible and now driving inside of that, it's like lifting weights. Like if you lift five pound weights all the time, like you're never gonna grab the fifty, but if you grab fifty, the five is nothing. So we need to take you to the fifty or the hundred or the hundred or the five hundred, whatever.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Weight so that you can drive on the car, drive on the regular road really well. So driving school, Danica's driving school.

• 24:55Jocko Willink?

  What do you drive right now for a vehicle?

• 24:57Speaker 02

  I just got a really great car and I never really have cared that much about cars. But I got a Lamborghini Urus and I got, apparently I, people see it and they're like.

• 25:06Jocko Willink?

  The Lamborghini SUV.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  It is.

• 25:08Jocko Willink?

  What color is it?

• 25:09Speaker 02

  It's all black. It's all black. Black wheels, black, black, black interior, red seat belts and red brakes. Red's my favorite color. So I.

• 25:17Jocko Willink?

  Did you test drive it? Was there something that, that made you buy that?

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Well, I really was sick of my Range Rover. So.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  I needed a new car. I had it for a long time. I had that car for like six years. So I was ready for a new car anyway. And I thought, what should I get? And every time I get a new car, I'm like, God, where do I go from here? You know? Actually, my first car was a BMW, my first car that I bought was a BMW 645. And that was because I got so many cars for free, growing up, like racing. So I drove for Bobby Rahal and he had dealerships. So I would get a car from him. And then I, before that, I lived in England and I would get a car from, you know, someone over there. And I, I just kind of got whatever. But when I, but when I finally could buy one, I bought a 645 BMW. I think I bought it like a convertible even. Again, red, red interior, black car. And then I didn't have a car for a long, long

• 26:09Speaker 02

  time. So the next one I bought was the Range Rover. And I was like, oh, no, sorry, I skipped it. So I bought the BMW. And then I was like, where do I go from here? And so I bought a Lamborghini. But I bought a used one. I bought a Lamborghini Gallardo. And it was, it took a big, it took a lot to go for up from a BMW. Like I tested a few other, well, like, where do you go? There's, there's no in between.

• 26:32Jocko Willink?

  How did you like the Lamborghini?

• 26:33Speaker 02

  I, I, the, the, your, the Gallardo was fun. It was just the car.

• 26:37Jocko Willink?

  When you're driving that, how are you not just freaking getting speeding tickets every 30 minutes?

• 26:41Speaker 02

  I did. And I did. And, and, and I did. And

• 26:44Jocko Willink?

  Especially because you're used to going 200 miles an hour.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I always thought to myself,

• 26:48Jocko Willink?

  So 75 is like a joke.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  How can I get out of these tickets? I thought, I thought to myself, maybe I should have my FIA racing license and give that to them with my driving license? Maybe that's like the subtle way of saying hello. And then I could make, then I would not say this, but I thought to myself, then I asked the cop, do you have one of these?

• 27:08Jocko Willink?

  That would have gotten you in more trouble.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  No. You have to be super nice. But, but anyway, so I, I had a Range. And I was like, oh, where do I go from here? And I'm like, a Lamborghini, of course. It's always stop two for Danica. So, and I got the Performante, which apparently is like a more rare one too. So it's the sportier version. So I drive that sucker around in sport mode everywhere. And it's not because regular mode isn't fast enough. It's because I hate the alarms. You know, when you drive a nice car and they have lane departure? And they have, you know, closing rates and like beep beep beep beep. And then it slows your car down automatically with the brakes and oh, that stuff drives me nuts because I'm so outside the bounds of normal people of what they do on the road. And so I, I was like, I had my, I was like, I brought it back to the dealership. I'm like, turn these freaking alarms off.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  I didn't get a nice car so that I could not turn these things off. And they're like, yeah, it's like hardwired in there, but you could turn it to a different mode. And I was like, fine. So I'm like in this, you know, basically rocket where it has like these levers. And I'm like, I just pull the sport lever and boom. Then I have to turn it off when I get in my neighborhood though, because it holds RPM for a long time before it shifts. So I'll be driving around in like first or second gear in my neighborhood like

• 28:24Speaker 02

  and I'm like, I sound like a jerk. So then I pull it back into regular mode, the other lever and, uh, and be PC for my neighborhood.

• 28:32Jocko Willink?

  Very nice of you. All right. You're growing up, you're in these go karts and you end up the World Karting Association Grand National Champion, 1994, 1996, 1997, is that right? So you're the number one.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Probably in multiple classes too.

• 28:48Jocko Willink?

  In multiple classes, meaning like different engine sizes?

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yamahas and eight twenties and different, there's like, I'm not going to make any sense to anyone else.

• 28:56Jocko Willink?

  So it's very clear that you have not just hard work, but you have a gift. You, you have to have some kind of gift to win that kind of thing, right?

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I had, I, again, I had the focus. I had the discipline and I had a tough dad. So like I had a talented father to wrench on my go kart to know what to do with it. Most, I mean, most of the time people aren't going to know how to like, set the clutch, set the, set the, set the carburetor. So it's not too lean or too rich, like make the, make the gear, you know, choose the right gear, change the axle. Like, I mean, these are all things that most people just don't know. But my dad was just so smart and so, so he was really technically inclined. But then also he really pushed me and a lot of people said that, you know, they were really afraid with my talent that it would be what holds me back from succeeding because my dad was so.

• 29:47Jocko Willink?

  Oh, like you might just quit.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Or like he might make me unattractive to companies and teams because he's just too much to deal with.

• 29:56Jocko Willink?

  Did you learn how to deal with him yourself? Like I clearly you must have. Would your dad yell at you like what the hell were you doing on that last lap?

• 30:03Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. He would, yeah, a hundred percent. From the time that I was 10 and it wasn't until, I wasn't until 2020. I remember I was, I went back to Indiana. I was sort of dealing with some emotional stuff and I was like trying to excavate my life and like, why am I like I am and what's going on? And so I asked my mom about, um, racing. Like I don't remember a lot before I was 10 and that was when I started. And so I don't understand why, but I think it's because I blocked a bit out. Um, but I asked about getting yelled at at the track and I said, you know, how often would that happen? And she was like, every weekend. And I don't even remember every weekend. I just remember sometimes, you know, I remember some fights

• 30:45Speaker 02

  or some times that we would, you know, I can remember some scenes, like some flashes, like a picture. I can remember being somewhere. But she was like every weekend. I was like, every weekend? She's like, every weekend. She's like, you know, of all things, like that's what I regret most that I didn't, I didn't stop that. So my dad just, he was just really, he was really tough. And, um, you know, the, the thing that I'd say is he did always say I, I didn't have to do it. But if I did do it, he was going to help me do it the right way. So I forever, I've always described him as someone that's not really, he didn't really push me, but he would pull me along, like drag me along sometimes. Yeah. Drag me through the mud.

• 31:28Jocko Willink?

  And you must have realized that your dad cared about you and like some of that anger and frustration from him would be, you must have made that translation in your head as a little girl thinking, my dad's not yelling at me because he's mad at. Me as a person, he's mad because he wants me to do better? Do you think you were able to pull that off? That's a huge reach for a little kid.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I, I, it gave me the, it gave me the programming that nothing, like I was not enough because nothing was ever enough. So I took that into my adulthood and I took that into my relationships is what I took that into. I, I think it probably propelled me in work, but in intimate relationships, it was not a good thing.

• 32:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I just always would overcompensate and I would be codependent and I'd be like, how do I fix this? And I, I'll just do better because I could always just do better. I knew how I had such huge capacity to do better and dig deeper. And so that was where it didn't do well, but I truly believe that there's like a season for all this stuff. And I'm not mad that I was like that. It made me who I was, it helped me accomplish great things, but there, that season came to an end.

• 32:42Jocko Willink?

  So you're kind of dominating in this world, uh, cart world. And then the next thing that happens is you have the opportunity to race or to, yeah, to race in England.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:54Jocko Willink?

  And England's, is it safe to call England the mecca of driving?

• 32:58Speaker 02

  I think so. I think you could say it's, it's definitely like the mecca of the, on the planet of racing would be in England. It's the, probably the most popular and dense, densely populated with tracks and, um, series and different things. Um, yeah, I'd say so. Yeah.

• 33:14Jocko Willink?

  And how does this come about? Do they recruit you or do you volunteer to them?

• 33:19Speaker 02

  It's a little bit more of a recruit. So when I was 14, um, I, I, I was winning everything. And this family, I, this family had noticed me because I

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Went to the suite and turned to at the Indianapolis 500 and I was just watching at 14 years old and I talked to this guy that was a British guy and I was just asking I guess all the right questions and then I remember him telling me something like, "Oh, you could learn more in one year in England than five years in America." And I'm 14, I'm like, "Wow, that sounds really good, really smart idea, let's do that." Uh, anyway, two years go by and, you know, I'm very successful and so he worked for this family and this family got in touch with my dad and, and said, you know, "We'd like to meet with you guys." And so, we almost didn't go. It's a four hour drive each way from where we lived and it was like raining all day.

• 34:12Jocko Willink?

  Where was the meeting?

• 34:13Speaker 02

  It was just like a rough day. It was in Indianapolis.

• 34:14Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  And we lived in northern Illinois, uh, and so it was a long drive and we were gonna do it all in a day and it was like, "Oh, should we go?" And, and what I ended up realizing is that, and this is true for me, basically, basically this is true. I, to the best of my ability, of course, is that I just usually do the right thing in the end, even if it doesn't rely on my dad, like, I do the right thing. And, uh, so we went and we had this meeting and they wanted to take me to England. They're like, "We've watched you, you're amazing, we wanna help you with your career." And so, I went over there, uh, at the end of that year, when I, at the end of being, at the end of the year when I was 16, and I raced in this winter series.

• 34:54Jocko Willink?

  Are they, are they signing you to some kind of a contract?

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of. I'm trying to remember. There was some level of a contract. I don't know if it had started then. I think it might have. It at least started after that. Um, so, that was my junior year of high school and, uh, I missed half of the first semester of junior year.

• 35:14Jocko Willink?

  So you're 16 years old.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  I'm 16 years old, I'm a junior. I was this first month of school, then I left for two months to do this winter series and then I came back for the last month of school until Christmas. And, uh, I-

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Ended up going back the next year for the full series, so I

• 35:31Jocko Willink?

  How'd you do in the winter series when you got over there?

• 35:32Speaker 02

  I, I think I was okay. I think I was okay.

• 35:35Jocko Willink?

  And what were you racing?

• 35:36Speaker 02

  It was called Formula Vauxhall. So it was a form, it was a formula car, like an Indy car or an F1, but no wings. So, and of course, far less sophisticated and much less horsepower. But basically, you're just trying to give you a visual. It's an open wheel car with no wings. And so the wings create downforce and so it just makes the car slower. So you can't go quite as fast around the corner. So it's, you know, a little bit of a safer speed probably. For a low level. So you're learning how to drive an open wheel car, but without the full downforce yet. So, um, so the winter series was not necessarily so much just a test. It was more practice to get ready for the next season. So I did the winter series and then I, I, I never went after,

• 36:17Speaker 02

  after Christmas break, I didn't go back to school again and I moved over to England and I

• 36:22Jocko Willink?

  Was that your first time? Cause go karts, go karts aren't open wheel, right?

• 36:26Speaker 02

  They are actually.

• 36:27Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Yep, I know. It took me like a really long time in my career to learn this. So don't feel bad.

• 36:31Jocko Willink?

  Oh, no, no, no, no. I, I get it. But I was trying to imagine like what I was thinking, honestly, embarrassingly enough, I was thinking about like the go karts at a freaking, at a carnival or whatever. When they have like the entire bumper system around the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then I always remember those little go karts.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Yep, they have like a front bumper and a back bumper, but the tires are still like, you can still, you can still climb them a little bit here and there. So.

• 36:53Jocko Willink?

  And the, the open, is open wheel more dangerous? Because if they connect, it's going to be like an immediate problem. Whereas you have a little bit of a buffer if you have closed wheel?

• 37:03Speaker 02

  For two reasons. You can climb wheels, so can have more spectacular things happen. Um, and then of course you're exposed, your open cockpit. So your, your head is exposed to the elements. I've been hitting the, I was hitting the head with a tire in Indy car one time. It ricocheted off my helmet. And all I got was a rubber mark on it. I'm like, I have some serious angels.

• 37:29Jocko Willink?

  And that, you have like, I was watching videos of you and you have like a full apparatus around your head.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Yep. So they've made it safer over the years because of things hitting drivers. A driver in IndyCar was killed a few years back from debris hitting him. So they created this windshield that goes on the front. In Formula One, one of the drivers was hit with a spring. So then they created this sort of halo, they call it, where it's not, it's, uh, there's a, there's an upright in the very center of the car. So literally it's dead center in the car. And then it comes around the head, right? Level with sort of the top of the helmet, but it's open underneath. So you're kind of, that's where you're looking. So that's called the halo. So they've developed a bunch of things over the years to help protect drivers' heads from the elements.

• 38:16Jocko Willink?

  Why do, don't they just put a little like enclosed cockpit? Why don't they close off the wheels? What's the advantage of it? Is it just because, hey, this is just cooler?

• 38:25Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, why don't they close off the wheels? I guess it's, uh, it would change the aerodynamics of the car. It would turn it into a full body, which takes away from the way that the car,

• 38:38Speaker 02

  operates aerodynamically with just the wings and the underbody.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  And probably it just wouldn't, it just wouldn't be true to itself anymore. It's probably a valid question to be honest, why there isn't more done to just, even like putting yourself inside of the cockpit. Well, one of the things is if you were inside the cockpit and let's say, one of the things that we had to do to start the season, uh, every year in IndyCar was we had, we got timed how quickly we could get out of the car. If there was an emergency, we had to be able to do it in under five seconds. And so now imagine that you have, uh, an actual something over you latched and closed. Like now you're actually trapped. So, okay, safety, because in an open, in a stock car, in a car where it has like a door, a window, uh, you climb out the window. So essentially that's your top is the side.

• 39:28Jocko Willink?

  Cool. All right. So now you get over there. You you do the for the winter season and how'd you how'd you think you did in the winter season?

• 39:35Speaker 02

  I think I did okay. I don't remember exactly how I did. But I was okay.

• 39:40Jocko Willink?

  But they saw potential.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, and and it was also like part of getting ready for the next year. It was like a good way to get up, get some time on track and.

• 39:48Jocko Willink?

  And at this point, you at some point you get sponsored by Ford.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, Ford does sponsor me. Um, it's a they it came through the agents. It came through the people that um, that uh, that took me over there.

• 40:04Jocko Willink?

  And you end up, when you go back to England and all this is from your book, you end up being there for three years. So like sixteen, seventeen, eighteen.

• 40:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, nineteen. It was kind of like at last half of sixteen to the first half of nineteen.

• 40:15Jocko Willink?

  And again, coming from your book, you were, look, you're doing all this mature stuff, like living over there and being a racer and all this stuff, but you were still like a sixteen seventeen year old girl that's just like.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, what do you do when you're sixteen years old and you have no parents and you have nobody to really like double check everything and you're hanging out with a bunch of teenage boys because that's all there was. Like, I definitely, I like partied and had fun and I did what I I did a lot of what I would have done at home on some level, right? But I was on my own and maybe I did more of it. Well, in England. More than everyone else, but hey, it doesn't matter.

• 40:57Jocko Willink?

  In England, drinking is way more socially acceptable.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  It's the it's like in in America, pastime is baseball. In England, pastime is drinking. Literally, a pint at the pub is like their pastime.

• 41:10Jocko Willink?

  Just normal, everyday type scenario.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, and and you didn't, I mean, shoot, you could get in anywhere. Like, you didn't, age was not like a hard hard thing. Drinking age was lower.

• 41:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, I think the drinking age is sixteen or seventeen over there. My wife's a Brit. So like for her, she just grew up just drinking. That's, you know, when she was thirteen years old, they would drink at the dinner table with their parents. And it was one of those things where. When she moved to America and she saw like the way kids acted here, it was more like crazy binge drinking at a young age. In England, they also have crazy binge drinking too, but I guess her thought was the normal exposure, like this is not that big of a deal.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:52Jocko Willink?

  But you know how kids sometimes like their first year in college or whatever, they're going full ham on the freaking booze. Echo Charles, you seem to be nodding enthusiastically with that. Did you see that? Did you see some of that over there in Hawaii? We saw some of that, yes. Yeah, some people getting crazy. Getting crazy. So that happened to you, Danica, being sixteen years old, all of a sudden, there's no, pretty much no rules.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  Pretty much no rules.

• 42:14Jocko Willink?

  Pretty much no rules, no drinking, uh, no, no drinking limit age.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:19Jocko Willink?

  And you're just rolling in there.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  And no, like, you know, my parents were super strict about my curfew when I was growing up.

• 42:26Jocko Willink?

  And then you, who were you living with over there?

• 42:28Speaker 02

  I lived with two different girl, like two women, um, one of them worked for a Formula One team. And then the other girl just like had a regular job. She was just a regular person, but they were roommates. And then I come along. And so the first thing I do when I get to England is I'm like staying, actually, I'm literally sleeping on a couch. And my bags underneath the stairs going upstairs, like I just was all like the couch was too, and I, I'd pull out the couch to do the pull out bed and that's where I'd sleep. And then eventually the lady who worked for the Formula One team would travel to London every weekend. So she was like, I'll do the couch during the week. You can have those bedroom. And when I say bedroom, it's more like a closet.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  It is a shoebox. It is like enough for a single bed and then like a little hanger at the end of the, it's so tiny. Um, but then I moved into the bedroom after, um, I don't know, a month or two or something.

• 43:18Jocko Willink?

  And are you going to school? Are you being?

• 43:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 43:20Jocko Willink?

  No, no books?

• 43:21Speaker 02

  No, I'm done. Now I'm getting my GED, my good enough diploma. So I'm done.

• 43:25Jocko Willink?

  When did you get your GED?

• 43:26Speaker 02

  I got it when I came home that year after my first year in England. So I actually graduated before all my friends.

• 43:32Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Actually, that's tech, that's true. That part's true, but I did fail the first time I took it.

• 43:37Jocko Willink?

  You failed the first time you took the GED?

• 43:39Speaker 02

  I did.

• 43:39Jocko Willink?

  Cause you hadn't done schoolwork in a year.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Well. I'm actually decently smart. I'm not brilliant, but I'm, I'm, I'm fine and I have decent recall. And so I would never study. I hated studying, never studied, but I'd always do my homework. So I'd learn enough from the homework and I was not a jerk in class. I paid attention. I wasn't disrespectful. So between paying attention in class and doing my homework, I learned enough to know. And, and so I'd get, I was like a, I was like a AB student. Like I was like a three point five, three point eight student. Like every year it was easy. I didn't study.

• 44:10Jocko Willink?

  No factor.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, just, and so, um, so I passed everything except for the constitution test. And so I don't like, politics and government are really not my strong suit. And I just like, it just, it just doesn't make sense in my brain. I don't know if you guys have these things like that just in life, they just don't make sense. And that's one of those things that does not make sense, like the, the, the, the, the house and the this.

• 44:36Jocko Willink?

  Well, the thing is, it's not intuitive.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  That's maybe what it is.

• 44:40Jocko Willink?

  So if you didn't actually like say, okay, how is the Congress set up? What are the three, like it doesn't, there's no, you can't just kind of logically go, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. I got it. You'd have to actually learn it. So if you didn't study, you wouldn't know it. So you failed your J D first.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  So I failed the G D because of that. And I only passed it. I only just passed the constitution test in eighth grade to go to high school. I had to have a 70 to pass, a 60 I was failing and I got a 70. So then fast forward years later, I haven't studied at all. And I take the constitution test and I fail and I'm like, oh, they give me like a little booklet and I only had to get 30 out of 60 right to pass. So anyway, I failed it and I had to get this booklet to study and I, I, I have to imagine I only just passed. But everything else was fine and easy, but.

• 45:21Jocko Willink?

  And so meanwhile, so you're in England, no school. So how many hours a day are you driving?

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Not, um, I mean, it's just like the weekends and I remember thinking to myself, I was like.

• 45:30Jocko Willink?

  So during the week, what are you doing?

• 45:32Speaker 02

  Nothing, like going to coffee shops and sitting and drinking cappuccinos. And that's when I started getting into health and, health and fitness stuff. I would grab all the health and fitness books and I'd flip through them and, you know, I'd just sit there and drink like two cappuccinos. And like, I mean, I, I, there was nothing to do. There was really nothing to do. I'd go work out and I don't know.

• 45:52Jocko Willink?

  And then you go to the pub at night.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  Go to the pub, go to the, go to the club, whatever, you know?

• 45:57Jocko Willink?

  Where were you?

• 45:58Speaker 02

  I was in Milton Keynes.

• 45:59Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, that's right. Which is like race central.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's pretty close. Pretty, yeah, yeah. It's a definitely a good location.

• 46:06Jocko Willink?

  And then on the weekends, what are you doing? Are you?

• 46:08Speaker 02

  You drive to the track.

• 46:09Jocko Willink?

  Are you learning? Are you, is there someone coaching you? Do you have like a mentor? Are you sitting in classes? The guy like, hey, follow me on this run or I'm gonna, you know?

• 46:16Speaker 02

  No, you're just driving, you're racing, you're learning by racing. And so I have teammates and um, but they weren't really teaching me a lot about the car. It was kind of a lot more like if you can't drive the setup of whoever's fastest, then you have to figure out how to drive the setup. Like they weren't just gonna change it. And here's the thing, every driver has a different style. And so every driver needs a different setup. Fast forward later in life and Indy cars, like I loved it when someone saw, when I was really fast and people put my setup on, because I knew they couldn't be as fast as me with my setup, because it's mine.

• 46:51Jocko Willink?

  So you're just getting in the, are these the, are you still in Vauxhall or this is switched to Ford Formula?

• 46:56Speaker 02

  So this was Formula Vauxhall. That's right. Good. Yep. There was Formula Vauxhall and then the next year was Formula Ford.

• 47:02Jocko Willink?

  And again, you're just basically getting a car that's not rigged for you.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  It's just a basic, it's just, yeah, exactly. There's not, it's not set up special. I mean, I have my own seat, of course, but it doesn't have like, it's not curated handling wise for me, really. I mean, you give feedback, but shoot, I didn't know anything. I didn't know how to change it. I didn't know what was going on.

• 47:26Jocko Willink?

  And then how often are you actually racing on the weekends?

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Most weekends.

• 47:31Jocko Willink?

  So, so I was under the impression that when you were in England, it was like, uh, you know, it was like this school you were going to where people, yeah, like a boot camp where they're like, okay, Danica, here's how, let us talk about tire pressure on cold weather days and like that, none of that. It's just like get in the car and race. And it's pretty much race every weekend.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Pretty much, yeah.

• 47:51Jocko Willink?

  And is this a series where people are watching it? Or is it just like a, like a minor league?

• 47:58Speaker 02

  It's a minor league, super minor league. So there's no like recruits and people coming to be like poaching like, oh, Danica's really good. Let's bring her to the bigs, you know, like it's not like that at all.

• 48:09Jocko Willink?

  It's lower than that.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  It's lower than that. It's like, can you do this? And then you go to the next and can you do that? And then you keep going like you're, you're a few levels away from anyone actually watching to see if you should drive their top level car.

• 48:20Jocko Willink?

  How many people, how many of these kids, are they all like younger people? They're all like 16, 17, 18, 19 years old?

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:26Jocko Willink?

  Are they all just super rich families?

• 48:29Speaker 02

  Some. Yeah, some.

• 48:30Jocko Willink?

  How could you do this if you weren't kinda rich? I mean, I know that you weren't rich. Okay, so they all get sponsors?

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, like when Ford helped or like this family did. Or like sometimes young drivers will get, um, uh, somebody will, uh, sponsor them, they will support them, but they do a contract where if they make it, then 20% of their salary over the next 15 years or something goes back to them. So,

• 48:57Jocko Willink?

  Did you have that kinda contract or no?

• 48:58Speaker 02

  I did not. I got super lucky that I didn't have to do that, but a lot of drivers did. A lot of drivers had to kinda sell their soul a little just to get the chance. And so, um, I don't know, I, I had this like, so I came back from England when I was 19 and, um, it happened in a dramatic way. The team was, it was only like four or five races into the season. And, um, the team just wasn't giving me what I wanted. Um, basically what happened is the season before I was driving for a, a secondary ser- secondary team within the series and, cause the teams, the main team, like the factory team said, we don't wanna have five cars on our team. So, we'll do you, we'll put you in this other team. We're gonna give you all of our setups,

• 49:41Speaker 02

  the cars, it'll be the same thing, which it never is. And then, you know, after that, then you can, then next year you'll, you can come race on the, the factory team. So the next year comes, I'm racing on the factory team. And guess how many cars are on the team? Five. So, I'm like fifth driver on a five car team and, uh, and so we got about five races into the season and I just, I was told by my managers, cause I was talking about that. I was like, I don't understand and I don't feel like I'm getting what I need. And, and they said, just don't go to the track. And so I remember not going to the track. And thank God my sister was in, with me in England visiting. And so we just sat home from the track one weekend. And I was like, this is so weird. And I went home and, um, and then I tried to find a ride back in, back in the States.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Um, because, uh, so I left England in a dramatic way. So I came back in the middle of a season. And I'm at this point 19 years old. So now I'm not racing full-time at 19. I'm not racing full-time at 20. Um, and it wasn't until the end of the year, the next year.

• 50:41Jocko Willink?

  Do people know who you are at this point?

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Not really.

• 50:44Jocko Willink?

  Cause you kinda made a name for yourself in go-karts. So probably people probably saw you, but then you shipped off to England.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  And I'm a girl, so I like, you know, people, you know, I would say in racing had probably like kinda heard of me or like had known something about it. Um, and I was also on some TV shows when I was young, like, um, MTV came to my high school and they were filming like some like extreme sports stuff, you know? And so MTV was like, did put, put me on their show and, um, and then there was also another one called Passion of Playmaking of a Champion. And there was three women featured and it was myself, Tara Lipinski and Anna Kornikova. We were all 14. And, um, so they followed me around my high school and all that stuff too. And so that was like a, a sad, like a Sunday special, like narrated by Robin Roberts. She was like the host of it. And, um, and it's so funny too, like, cause I, I haven't seen Robin in a while, but I, I

• 51:33Speaker 02

  saw her obviously many more times in my life after that because of going on GMA and different things. So it's funny to have that one be full circle, but I was only 14. And so, you know, I had done some things that had got, got some attention. Yeah. And I did so well.

• 51:47Jocko Willink?

  But then you get overseas, you're not like a superstar. So maybe people are like, oh yeah, we kinda remember her. And so you come back to America, um, and then it was, you had some opportunity to do something with BMW, it sounds like.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that was my only, that was all I did from 19 to 20. So again, the very beginning of that year when I was 19, I came home. At the end of that season, um, which I didn't race at all. At the end of that year, uh, BMW asked me to come test their car for them. And it would be for a sports car ride, but you know, you just take what you can get. And so I went and I was faster than their main driver and like the, the main driver had to go put like sticker tires, like new tires on to go lay a lap down just so that he could go faster. And so, um, so they, they hired me and then that car was made illegal the next year because of the engine was not a stock engine that they would sell. And that was part of the requirements with the series.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  So they just didn't race because it would have cost like quarter of a million per car to make that a production car with a different engine. So we didn't race, but what it did allow me. Was me and my dad had the opportunity to pound the pavement. So we would go to the racetrack each weekend and we would just see who would be willing to give me a test or a ride or, you know, put me in the car, see what I can do. I mean, geez, we would literally go to the bathroom for something to do. Like we were, it was just like, you know, it was selfless, just arduous, you know, begging almost. And, and, and, and people, the best thing people would come back with is like, oh, you know, it's some ridiculous number to just drive their car and test it. It's like, it was insulting.

• 53:25Jocko Willink?

  Wait, wait, wait. What do you mean ridiculous number?

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Like they would say, I was like, you know, if you want to test this car, if you want to race this car, they'd put a price tag on it that was so high.

• 53:33Jocko Willink?

  You mean you would have to pay them?

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:35Jocko Willink?

  Isn't that backwards for the way it's?

• 53:37Speaker 02

  Well, you wouldn't, you don't really get paid back in those days. Like at that level, you're not a paid driver. But, um, but, you know, to throw, usually they'll test someone to see if they're, they're good and that might not cost anything or nominal. But like when they were slapping like insulting numbers on it if I was going to drive it, which meant they just wanted to see if they could just get some money out of me at least.

• 53:59Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  So it wasn't.

• 54:01Jocko Willink?

  There's a term that you use in the book and you're using it a little bit right now, ride. Like trying to get a ride.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:07Jocko Willink?

  Expand on that a little bit. Yeah.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  A ride is like you're, you're, you're trying to get a seat on a team. You're trying to be able to have a spot in the series with a team and a car. And, uh, and so that's what a ride is.

• 54:20Jocko Willink?

  Sort of ride is looking for a ride.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:22Jocko Willink?

  Uh, Toyota Pro Celebrity Race. You go out there and?

• 54:28Speaker 02

  I did. I won it. And so there was, yeah, it was a, it was a fun, uh, so the Toyota did this pro celebrity race. I, I don't know if they still do it or not, but did it for a long time. They'd get some really good celebrities. Like I can try to remember some. I remember the one that always sticks out is Bryan Cranston was in that race. I remember, but anyway, I was in the pro category and I was also out there with another driver like, and I became friends with him. Um, his name is Tommy Kendall and he was a really, a really great sports car driver. And so there was actually some good competition when it came to the other, the other pros that were in it. It would be like 15 celebrities and like five pros. So the pros would have to start, um, actually this is brilliant. I, I think in sports, tell me if you think this is a good idea.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  There should almost always be like a baseline, normal person to show you what is really normal. Like, like take the Olympics, imagine someone's going like doing downhill skiing.

• 55:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  And you had to have like a regular person go do it.

• 55:24Jocko Willink?

  That's a really good idea.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  To have a delta.

• 55:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 55:27Speaker 02

  Like go, this is how good they are. Because people look at race car drivers and they think,

• 55:31Jocko Willink?

  I could kind of do that.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  I might be able to do that.

• 55:33Jocko Willink?

  I could do that.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  I could drive my car. And, um, but you have no idea. And so, and it looks easy because you don't see the car moving. Because if it moves too much, trust me, it's going to crash. So it's always moving a little bit. Anyway, so, um, so they would start the celebrities like 15, I don't remember, 30 seconds ahead, 15 seconds ahead, a good chunk ahead. And this, and the pros would start back. And so, um, so I, and I won, uh, I won, I won the pro. And I can't remember where I finished overall. I don't know if I won the whole thing or not. I might've. I don't even remember. Um, it was as long as 20 years ago.

• 56:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Um, so, uh, but that, that was like one of those things where PR liked me. And so after I won, uh, the next day, there was a, I had made a bet with this guy, Tommy Kendall, uh, that if, he's like, if you beat me, you can walk me down pit lane before the race tomorrow, the Indy car race, or it was kart then or champ car. You can walk me down pit lane with a, a collar and a leash.

• 56:30Jocko Willink?

  And you did it.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  And I did it. So like, you know, there's these moments in my career where I wasn't necessarily like, you know, I wasn't, uh, super established, but it caught some traction. And then I did some sexy photo shoots too. Those helped.

• 56:46Jocko Willink?

  What, was this when you did FHM?

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:50Jocko Willink?

  Was that that year?

• 56:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:51Jocko Willink?

  You did FHM that year?

• 56:52Speaker 02

  I was 19, so yeah, it might've been that year.

• 56:55Jocko Willink?

  That was a big deal.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I remember I got a lot of flack for that, but.

• 56:58Jocko Willink?

  Wait, you got flack for it?

• 56:59Speaker 02

  Oh, man, especially from like feminists and people that think I'm taking women, like I'm, I'm lowering, um, lowering the value or the perception of women by doing stuff like that. Um, but. I never did anything outside my comfort zone. I really didn't. And I, I mean, I just have a different comfort zone than you, obviously.

• 57:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So you started getting a little bit more popular.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:24Jocko Willink?

  We started getting approaching, moving towards Danica mania.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, a couple, we're just two years away from Danica mania.

• 57:29Jocko Willink?

  We're getting closer. Uh, now you, you were talking about going into all these different race, races and just talking to people. And this is where you end up kind of having a pretty pivotal moment when you meet with Bobby Rahal, right?

• 57:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:41Jocko Willink?

  How's that go down?

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Again, uh, back to my, my, uh, less, or my, what I know about myself now is I do the right thing. So you remember when I went to, took the meeting in Indianapolis and I was like, ah, we don't really want to go, but it's like, all right, we do the right thing. So my dad was like, all right, Milwaukee race weekend. We only lived an hour away. He's like, let's go to the track. And I was like, oh dad, I'm sick of walking around begging people and having nothing happen. I'm just, I'm over it. And he was like, let's just go for like 45 minutes. And I was like, all right. So we go. And I had received a phone call from someone like either that week or the week before that said, hey,

• 58:22Speaker 02

  I could have a full-time sponsor for you, a full sponsor, uh, for the Formula Atlantic Series, which is the, which was the series below Champ Car. Um, is the feeder series. So like the, you know, minor leagues, triple A's, double A's. How's it go? Um, and, and so I said, um, and he said, I could have a full-time sponsor if there's a letter of intent that says that, you know, Bobby will do an Atlantic team with you in it. And I was like, wow, okay. So I went to the track. We went to pretty much straight to Rahal's hospitality. I saw Bobby and I told him this. And I was like, I've also realized I'm very direct. Um, so I'm like, I walk right up to him and I'm like, hey, and I was like, so I talked to this guy and he said, we could have a full-time sponsor if you do, put me in an Atlantic car.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  And he looked at me and he went, okay.

• 59:10Jocko Willink?

  Done.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Done, done. Go home, celebrate. It truly happened. Two weeks later was the next race, the next Indy, next Champ Car race, and they were racing at Laguna Seca in California, up north, and, uh, and we signed a letter of intent at a press conference, um, with everybody there with the media that Bobby was gonna start an Atlantic team and I was gonna drive for him.

• 59:31Jocko Willink?

  That's it.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  And I found out much later on, this is just years ago, that I found out, like, everyone told him he was crazy. Everyone told him, like, you're, I can't believe you're doing this. And I said to him, obviously, later in life now, and I was like, I am so, like, I'm so glad that you looked smart. Like, you know, when somebody's questioning you and you feel convinced that it's a good idea or the right thing to do, and you just, like, hope to God you look smart in the end. I'm like, I, I just really was glad that I, I was glad that I made him look smart.

• 1:00:00Jocko Willink?

  How hard is it to go from different types of cars to different types of cars?

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  You know, luckily, I was able to do it, but it's somewhere, for a lot of people, you can get lost in it. Sometimes it just doesn't translate. Like, you watch people in sports go from college football to, like, NFL, and sometimes it just doesn't translate, right? They can be the number one draft pick, and then they are a flop. Like, sometimes it just doesn't, sometimes it just doesn't translate.

• 1:00:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I, I was, uh, shooting, and I, I used a certain type of pistol my whole life, and, cause that's what we used in the SEAL teams, they don't use it anymore, but I used a Sig Sauer my whole life. And whatever platform from Sig Sauer, and I was going through a course, and I was using a different platform, and it definitely took some, like, getting used to. Like, I wasn't close to as good as I would have been with a Sig.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Accuracy and everything.

• 1:00:52Jocko Willink?

  You know, it was more like the mechanics of moving, cause once you're on the trigger and you're looking at the sight picture, it's pretty, that's pretty much, I know how to do that well, but just the way that the other mechanics of the pistol are just a little bit different. And so you'll be, like, reaching for something and it's not there. Anyways, I could imagine where you're in these different cars, that there's some people that it's gonna be really difficult to go from this one to that one, cause it's just different.

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Could be downforce and how it works, it could be, um... Could be how the brakes work, it could be like how the car, like what, how to, how to be able to decipher what the car is doing to feel it accurately to translate that back to an engineer. So you can make changes to make the car better. Like maybe you just don't feel it really well. Um, yeah, maybe. And also I think a really big layer of this is your mind. I think a lot of people as they progress, they just don't have the, they just aren't strong enough.

• 1:01:53Jocko Willink?

  To make the changes?

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  To stay confident, to not get overwhelmed, to not um, take themselves out of the game, to uh, like I think they, I just think that, I just think you, you have to have like a really, really focused mindset and you have to just have a lot of, you have to have enough confidence to, to dig deeper.

• 1:02:11Jocko Willink?

  I guess too, the fact that you raced different types of cars growing up, you weren't always in the same car, so you already got used to making those adaptations in your life.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:20Jocko Willink?

  Maybe that helps.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  Maybe I was just good.

• 1:02:22Jocko Willink?

  Hell yeah.

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna lie to you, I've never actually said that out loud like that before, but I just thought of it and I was like, maybe I was just good.

• 1:02:30Jocko Willink?

  Well.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  And you know, my dad has tried to tell me this over the years too, but, cause I, I mean, when I look at myself, if I'm looking really objectively and honestly, was I good? Obviously I was good enough to do what I did. I, I, you don't stick around and you don't race for 27 years, cause you know, you're just a girl. Like, trust me, there have been plenty, that there would be a lot more girls if it was about just being a girl. Um, was I the best ever? No. But was I good? Yeah. And so like, why was I able to, to, to tran, to go from one to the next and be able to do it? It's like, I guess I was just good.

• 1:03:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, you had talent. That's what, that's what I was saying when you're winning, like even as a little kid, you're winning like these, these national champions. Like you, you have to have some level of natural talent.

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:14Jocko Willink?

  And you know, I've, you know, seen throughout my life, there's people that are good at stuff.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Jocko Willink?

  Like people that are just good at stuff. And maybe they're good at this thing, but not good at something else. And you're really lucky if you can find something that you're good at, like you got, look, you might've also been able to be a great guitarist or a great uh, whatever other kind of athlete, but you. Thankfully, you found something that you were just naturally talented in.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Do you think, do you think that someone, when they're good at something, cause I mean, you, you have, you're gonna have to agree with me on this one. You can do so many things well, like you, cause you're such a perfect example. You've been good at so many things. And so I'm like, for me, it's a curiosity of like, what is it that makes someone so able to plug and play themselves into so many different things? And like, you can't just say you're just lucky. You're able, you have this a skill set or a mentality. There's a skill set and a mentality that makes you a plug and play person.

• 1:04:10Jocko Willink?

  There is, but people have natural talents. And I, the, the best example I can give, cause it's very, very clear, is fighting. So, there's people that are good at grappling. They're naturally good at grappling, meaning wrestling, meaning jiu jitsu. There's people that are naturally good at that. There's people that are naturally good at striking, meaning punching, kicking, elbowing. There's people that are naturally good at that. There's people that are naturally incredible grapplers, that they are not good strikers. And they can't really make that transition. And there's people that are naturally good strikers, and they don't make that transition. So even though they're maybe even world-class in some cases, at grappling, or world-class at striking. And sometimes, this is such a good example too, because sometimes people, they've trained

• 1:04:54Jocko Willink?

  just, almost just as much in, let's say they started off as a striker, and then by the time they're 13, they're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna wrestle. But they never get as good as they are for that natural gift that they have of striking. And they never, or same thing the other direction. So, there's people that can be really good at basketball, but they're not quite gonna be as good at baseball, right? Now, look, could we look at Michael Jordan and be like, well, you know, Michael, he tried to play baseball and obviously, but he, he had dedicated his whole life to basketball. So maybe you could take Michael Jordan and say, hey, Michael Jordan, go back in time, now just focus on baseball?

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:05:31Jocko Willink?

  Would he have been? He probably would have been hella good at baseball.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:05:34Jocko Willink?

  But there are other people that... They could be really good at one thing, but it doesn't necessarily translate to everything that they do. So you, I bet there's, I bet if we got to look at your freaking like blueprint, like God's blueprint for you, he probably have like seven things. Like, oh, look, she's, she could be really good with these talents. She could be a really good race car driver, really good, while you're small, like really good jockey, really good gymnast. Really, like there's probably seven things that you could have totally excelled at. And then there's a bunch of things that you wouldn't have excelled at.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, trust me, there are things that I am so bad at. And the skill, like I, like, I mean, details, um, being sweet and like, like demure and like, and indirect with people. Like there's just, there's some, or like, I don't know. I, I don't even know how to say it correctly. Like there's, there are things that I am just not very good at. So I, this isn't me trying to say like, oh, if you're good at one thing, you know, if you're a talented person. Um, but I think that I, you can plug and play your talents that make you good at one thing and into other things. Now, when we're talking about just racing itself and like, how are you able to transition from the levels and continue to achieve at the next level? Um, I think you just have to have a lot of raw, raw natural talent. You also have to have incredible timing. You have to be with the right team

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  at the right time so that you can look good. So I also think that I had a luck on my side. I had fate on my side. I had, um, I had, you know, I put myself in the arena a lot, yes, but I also had to be with the right person at the right time too, and not get stuck in a car that sucked and made me look like I sucked. Right? Cause there's only so much a driver can do.

• 1:07:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. The other thing that, well, when I was going through your history and reading your books is like, sometimes you would win first place or you'd win pole or you'd have the best like track times or lap times during the warmups. So you definitely had the requisite skill to win. You definitely had it. And then, you know, like you said, you gotta get lucky. Maybe you run out of fuel. Maybe you get hit. Like all those a million little things that are gonna happen. And there's a different game, right? There's a different game when you're alone on the track and you go wherever you want than when you're jockeying with a bunch of other people. And that's a little bit of a different game. And I'm sure there's people, like we have people in, in mixed martial arts that in training, they're annihilators and they get in the.

• 1:07:57Jocko Willink?

  The night of the event and they don't do as well as everyone thinks they're going to do. Literally, we would have guys that would, you know, guy A wins in training every single time. Guy B loses to that guy, to that same guy in training every single time. They go into and fight, you know, other people. And the person that usually wins in training loses and the person that usually loses in training wins because they ri- someone rises to the occasion. Someone gets intimidated or they get nervous or they get hesitant or whatever. So there's so many things that are coming into play and how much of racing is like just mental?

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so much mental, so much mental. I'd say like my arc of the weekend was usually like, um, you know, yes, I could be fast in practice, sometimes not. Um, I would say my strength was the race. I'd say that like qualifying was my weakness. My biggest weakness is probably qualifying. Like first practice, I just was not one of those drivers that blitzed it. Like I wasn't one of those that just like went way past. I just, I'm much, much more methodical about it. So I'd say like first practice and qualifying were not my strong suit, but the rest I was good. And so the race always got better for me. Um, but the mental side is so important, like just keeping your head in the game. When I was younger, I used to make, I was, I used to get so angry inside the car.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  Like I could come on the radio and I would just say every swear word I could think of, frustrated, mad at someone in front of me. And then it was kind of pointed out and I realized that, um, I, I'm probably not helping my folk, helping myself on track actually. Um, because I'm taking my mind so out of the game that I'm not, that I'm not passing him as quickly as I could. And also just realizing it ends up being my damn responsibility. Like I can complain all I want, but I'm just making up excuses really. It's my job, even if they make it harder on me than someone else, it's still my reality. You still have to deal with it. So once I realized that, I was like, I just need to, I just need to shut my mouth and get by them as quick as possible because that's my best bet to making this, making this go as well.

• 1:09:55Jocko Willink?

  Did someone tell you this or was that a self-realization?

• 1:09:58Speaker 02

  Um, I think I have somebody kind of had mentioned like, you know, you take yourself like you take yourself out of the game when you are mad like that. And I remember thinking like, okay, that makes some sense.

• 1:10:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. How old were you when you started realizing that you should not get so mad?

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  Uh, probably my, in the middle of my Indy car days. So I would say like, uh, late twenties.

• 1:10:27Jocko Willink?

  A lot of stuff we gotta learn. It's so crazy, isn't it?

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  I mean, and, and what's crazy too is how much you learn after it's all over with, right? Cause it's so, it's so hard to take it all in. It's so hard to even, we can't see ourself clearly. So it takes a lot of time and growth and other people and experiences and patterns to be able to show us who we are. When we're in it, we're in it. We're so distracted that we're not able to really be very philosophical about ourself. We're like deeper into understanding ourself from a, on the mental side of things or why we do things. So it takes time.

• 1:11:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And what's hard for you is it's all recorded history.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:09Jocko Willink?

  Like you're, everything that you did when you were freaking 22 years old out on the track. It's like, oh, you can go watch that on YouTube right now.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, but thank God there wasn't phones doing what they do now.

• 1:11:18Jocko Willink?

  That's true.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  England would have been a lot worse. I see every now and again, I'll see a photo. Somebody's like, oh, look at this picture. And I'm thinking like, what do, I mean, do we have the bulbs that flashed and broke? Is it that old? Like, um, and I'm like, I'm looking, I'm like, oh dude, do I look drunk in that photo? It'd be like four people at a club and I'm like, oh geez.

• 1:11:41Jocko Willink?

  Yep. Thankfully there was no cell phones back then.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  Well, there was in England. It was actually cellphone time. There wasn't in America, but like-

• 1:11:48Jocko Willink?

  But there wasn't cameras on the cell phones.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  Totally. Exactly. Right. And we still had to use like, you still had to go through the letters on each number. We didn't have like a full keyboard. So it was a bit of effort.

• 1:11:58Jocko Willink?

  All right. So now you're in the Toyota Atlantic Series. Um, you get the first podium by a woman in Monterey. We, we go into the 2004 season, first woman to win pole position at Portland International. You finished second in that race. So you're, uh, old Rahal made a good bet.

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  He did. He did. And I finished third in the championship my second year. And, um, and I remember- So there was a, it was a two-year contract with the third year being an option for the team for me to go race IndyCar. And my, my attorney did a great job negotiating this contract. My sweet Jack, I love him. I still, I actually just talked to him a couple of months ago.

• 1:12:41Jocko Willink?

  Is he still your attorney?

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  No, he's not.

• 1:12:43Jocko Willink?

  Bummer.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  But he, he did this deal and it was two years and the third year being the option. It was for, for $500,000. If Bobby wanted me to go to IndyCar, I was going to get paid, paid half a million dollars to go race IndyCars, which is a great deal.

• 1:12:57Jocko Willink?

  You're like stoked.

• 1:12:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so I, obviously you want him to re-up, right? So it's the beginning of the second year of, of Atlantics. And I'm standing in the pagoda in the media room at the Indianapolis 500. It's that weekend and it's Thursday, which is media day. So Bobby and his drivers are up doing their media availability in front of everybody. And I'm just watching, again, just watching. And somebody asked him about me and he said that I was going to race in the Indy 500 the next year.

• 1:13:31Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  And I didn't, nobody knew. And he just like dropped, this was May too. Like the season just started. Like we have the whole rest of the way to go. So, so, so now I know all of a sudden that I'm going to race in the Indy 500 the next year. He's taking, he's picking up the third year option year of my contract. I'm going to get paid half a million dollars.

• 1:13:49Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  And I, I go race IndyCar the next year.

• 1:13:53Jocko Willink?

  Freaking pumped.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:54Jocko Willink?

  Um, and now this becomes what, the Ray Hall Letterman?

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:58Jocko Willink?

  Is that when it becomes that?

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:13:59Jocko Willink?

  So David Letterman's into freaking racing.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's from Indiana.

• 1:14:02Jocko Willink?

  So that's where it comes from.

• 1:14:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, he grew up there and he grew up going to the track and yeah.

• 1:14:06Jocko Willink?

  So he's super hyped on it. And you roll into this, I think your first race, you crashed your first race.

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  Big one. That was when, um, that was, uh, that was a really big crash. Um, that I, it was, there was an accident in one and two is about three quarters of the way through the race. And there was a car sliding down the track and I was going underneath the car and I didn't make it by in time and it clipped my, clipped the rear, right rear of my car and shot it, nose going, turning to the right, shot it up into the wall, hit, not head on, but you know. At a pretty steep angle and slid down the track, ended up, you know, it was kinda on fire, slid on, slid on onto the grass. The medical, medical team came over, the truck's there, and I get out of the car and I'm like stumbling, and I actually, I'm so out of it, I turn the opposite direction of the ambulance,

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  which tells me I'm really out of it. I get in the ambulance, I don't remember any of this, I get to the medical center, I don't remember any of this. I wake up on a table and I open my eyes and I see a bright light above me, like this one. Oh. And I, I thought I was dead. I had no idea where I was and I was like, what's going on, what's going on? And my mom was there and then a priest comes over the other side, I think I'm dead. You know, the only, the only next thing I could remember thinking, other than like, am I dead? My mom was like, it's okay honey, you just had a little accident. I'm like, accident, I'm dead mom.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  So, and then the next thing I remember thinking is, um, oh, I hope they don't take my suit off because I, I didn't wear underwear. Like, I just wore my suit because, not trying to like, have provocative information, but I, like, my hips would be, um, the belts are so tight that I'm not heavy enough to, to have a lot of like, fab, like a lot of skin and fat. So the hips, my hips needed no wrinkles. So underwear and things like that would like wrinkle under there. So I just limited all things that could wrinkle and like have a seam on my hip bone. Have you guys ever gone skiing? You know, when there's just like, one little thing that's on your shin or on your ankle? And by the end of the day, it's a giant problem.

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  It was like that in the car, so I, I didn't wear underwear ever. And so I was like, I hope they don't take my suit off because I don't have any underwear on. And then I got yelled at because I didn't have the right earpieces in. And I'm thinking, this all seems like a lot right now. I don't feel, feel like you should be yelling at me for not having my accelerometer earpieces in, when I, uh, you know, I'm like dead. Uh, but anyway, so I got rushed to the hospital in the ambulance. I'm in the ambulance on the way and I apparently kept asking the nurses the same question over and over again, because they said, honey, you've asked that question three times already. And I just couldn't remember, right? So I just kept asking, did it look bad? Like, was it spectacular? Uh, and so I get there and, you know, do the MRI and scan and everything and...

• 1:17:06Speaker 02

  At that point in time, I was married and he was a physical therapist. So he knew all the like, like, technical lingo to get me out. And so I, I didn't have to stay overnight and left and flew home and I had a race two weeks later at Phoenix. So I sat on the couch with ice packs all over me because I had a lot of bruises. Um, I was, uh, I also did some, um, electrical, sort of like, it's like lights and, um, noises to reprogram my brain. Um, so I did this for like two weeks and then I, I raced it, I raced at Phoenix, which was a hard race and I sucked and I did terrible, but

• 1:17:38Jocko Willink?

  Well, you had a massive concussion. Yeah, you had a massive concussion. Like today's concussion protocol, they'd probably not let you, oh, I don't know if they do that in car racing.

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  No, they did. We still had the, the, you still had to go ta- I still had to go take the test.

• 1:17:51Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  So, since I had two weeks, I went and took it the week of the race and, um, and it's the same protocol as they do now. It's like the dots and the lines and the numbers and the, yeah, it's all the whole memory cognitive thing. It's the, it's the concussion protocol test.

• 1:18:05Jocko Willink?

  Check. And then you sucked in Phoenix.

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  I sucked in Phoenix, but.

• 1:18:08Jocko Willink?

  Uh, but you end up, uh, fourth in Indy Japan, the, the Japan 300?

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Which was only another few weeks after that. So that one was Homestead, two is Phoenix. I don't remember what three was. I think, I think there was maybe one more and then, and then it was, uh, Motegi, which is the Japan race. And, uh, I qualified on the front row on my, uh, when I went and I finished fourth at Motegi. And then the next race was the Indy 500.

• 1:18:36Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm. And the Indy 500, you're rolling into this, like what I was talking about earlier, you like had one of the, you had the fastest practice speed.

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I won practice a lot.

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  It did pay.

• 1:18:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So people are freaking hyped. I mean, people are thinking like if you're the fastest practice speed.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I, and I, and in qualifying, um, I was fastest on Fast Friday, leading into qualifying. Oh no, that was before the race. I was actually fastest on that day.

• 1:19:00Jocko Willink?

  How old are you at this point?

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  Twenty-three.

• 1:19:02Jocko Willink?

  What's the normal age of a driver?

• 1:19:03Speaker 02

  I mean, that's, that's young. I mean, that's a no, young, normal age.

• 1:19:06Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  That's a young, normal age to start. Yep. Um, and, uh, I, I, I went into qualifying, it was a really cold day and I, I was so nervous and I just, I kind of, similar to like the last race in IndyCar that I did, I felt like I was just gonna have, I was like, no matter what, I'm not gonna lift. And by lifting, it means come off the throttle. So I thought, as soon as I go out, I am not coming off the throttle. I am going to, once I start, once I start my lap for, and you had to do four timed laps and they took your, they take your average. So I was like, I'm not gonna lift, I'm not gonna lift. So I went into turn one, it's a really cold day and the track's cold. And I didn't lift until I had to lift or I would've crashed. So I got completely sideways, caught it,

• 1:19:47Speaker 02

  which is actually the best thing I could've done because if I'd have just qualified on the pole, everyone just said you had a fast car, a fast engine, like, you just qualified on the pole. But I actually showed some skill and I caught the car at 225 or 35 miles an hour. And, um, and then I finished that qualifying and I never lifted after that and I qualified fourth.

• 1:20:09Jocko Willink?

  Damn, okay. So, talk to me a little bit about the fuel, uh, like, strategy in like the Indianapolis 500. What's going on with that?

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  So many stops that Indy 500 is where there's the most amount of sort of different strategies that play out. Um, so, you know, you have to pit like every, you know, 30 or so laps and, uh,

• 1:20:33Jocko Willink?

  And that's for tires and fuel?

• 1:20:34Speaker 02

  Fuel, mostly.

• 1:20:35Jocko Willink?

  Mostly fuel?

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, um, so like at the end of the race, I ran, I had 50 lap tires on, but that's because I had already done a bunch of laps. And then I came in under a yellow because I had spun and had to go to the back. I came in under a yellow, we topped off and then I never came in again. So I had 50 lap tires at the end of the race. Um, but I had, I was running out of fuel as well because we were stretching it. So, um, I inherit, I, I, I, I inherited the lead through a pit stop cycle because again, like I said, I splashed, topped off on a, on a caution and then, um, and then I never came in again. So everyone else came in, tires, fuel, everything. And I took the lead and I led, um, for a long time and then, um,

• 1:21:22Speaker 02

  Came in, then there was a caution and somebody had gotten by me. And so I was starting second on this restart and there's not that many laps left. And I remember coming on the radio, I'm like, "Everybody say a prayer." And they're like, "We've been saying them all day." My sweet Ray, my engineer. And so, green flag came out. I timed it perfectly and got a great run and I passed Dan into turn one and took the lead again. And there's a really great clip. It's my favorite clip on YouTube. It's like 30 or 40 seconds long. And it's of me taking the lead, but it's from the stands and it's from a fan. And so it's like, obviously low quality res. And, but what it, what it shows you is what the fans were doing.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  And after that race, everybody asked me, they're like, well, not everybody, but many people asked me, "Could you hear the fans cheering when you took the lead?" I'm like, "No, I could not." Not with all of my friends with their 800 horsepower or whatever we had back then, um, driving 240 miles an hour. But it was a big moment and so it was a really cool clip. And it gives me goosebumps every single time I watch it. And, uh, and so I took the lead again. I led for a while, but then, then I pulled away. And, uh, but then we had to save fuel. And we didn't really have the same fuel monitoring system that I had moving forward after that, which is sort of a sensor that was needed to see exactly how much fuel I had. Anyway, so I was detuning myself. So there was fuel mixtures.

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  So you can, full rich is like full fuel. That's full power. And then you can detune yourself by taking fuel away from the engine, which takes power away. So I was like, fuel slot one, that's the most, full bore, pulling away. Fuel slot two, pulling away. Fuel slot three, pulling away. Fuel slot four, maintaining. Fuel slot five, maybe not maintaining as much. Fuel slots six and seven, that eight was map, was a caution map. That was for, that would cut cylinders under caution. So it would be like, you'd never run fuel slot eight. But six and seven was, was, I was now getting caught. And, um, and so I got passed and they were kind of just telling me like, "Just finish the race." The only thing, I mean, I wouldn't change my life for anything.

• 1:23:33Speaker 02

  I, I love the whole way that it's all gone and I, I'm totally a believer in like the butterfly effect and sliding doors. One thing leads to a change in everything. Um, but I mean, in hindsight, I, I could have just said, Screw it and I had to run whatever fuel slot it took for me to just maintain so they wouldn't catch me and just roll the dice. And I would have made it to the end on fuel.

• 1:23:54Jocko Willink?

  Dude, oh, that's what?

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:56Jocko Willink?

  You did a postmortem and you're like, yeah, you have this much fuel left.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  I guess I had like two and a half gallons still left, which is two and a half laps.

• 1:24:03Jocko Willink?

  Jack. So you end up getting fourth place.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  I got fourth.

• 1:24:07Jocko Willink?

  Which is still enough to cause, kind of initiate.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:10Jocko Willink?

  Some, some, some mania.

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's when Danica Mania started and I remember before the race, I was told, I was, they were like, hey, if you win, you're gonna be on the cover of Sports Illustrated. I'm like, okay. Okay. And so the race got over with and they're, and then, and they're gonna want a photo shoot. They're gonna wanna take a picture, like they're gonna want, they're gonna want something. I'm like, whatever. I won't care if that happens. And so the race got over with and my, my publicist was like, they still wanna do a photo shoot. They're not, I don't know if we're gonna run it for the cover, but they still wanna do a photo shoot. And I was like, are you freaking kidding me? I'm like exhausted. And so I remember I poured a giant solo cup of red wine, went to this location where this photographer had a setup

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  and it was on the way to dinner and I was there for about 15 minutes and did this photo shoot and, um, and then went to dinner to get absolutely hammered and, um, and celebrate the night. And, um, and then they said the next day, they're like, they're running it as a cover. And then they took that cover and the next race was Texas Motor Speedway, which is the guy that ran it was a, is a huge promoter. And so he like made a huge billboard of me of this cover and, yeah, would proceed along the years to, to, to be a very big promoter. Meaning like, at one point, I think the next year, Dan Weldon and I had a fight at Milwaukee before we went to it. So we literally were painted on the, like a billboard looking like fighters, yeah, like fighters.

• 1:25:37Speaker 02

  Um, so anyway, so I have this huge billboard now at Texas the next race and, and that, and then, and, and then, and there was a lot of people that got pissed off along the way. Like there was some autograph sessions every single weekend we had to do. And they would separate it by driver, right? So it's just like you get in line for whatever driver you wanted. And, um, and so my. My line was so long and there'd be nobody else in any other line. So at one point in time, the drivers from the team that I ended up driving for next, the Andretti team, they all, they all like vetoed the autograph session. They, they sat out there. They're like, we're not doing it because you have separate lines and you should have one line. And nobody comes and this doesn't seem fair. And so, so yeah, so.

• 1:26:20Jocko Willink?

  You made people angry.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did. I mean, yes, they, they, they, you know, at the end of the day, people's reaction to you says a lot more about them than it does about you.

• 1:26:31Jocko Willink?

  Sure does.

• 1:26:31Speaker 02

  Always does. And so really like what that's saying is that, you know, they were, they were feeling insecure. They were mad that they didn't get the attention for things that they did, or they're like, what could I have done to, you know, that says a lot more about them than does me. I didn't do anything, but yeah, they got pissed off.

• 1:26:49Jocko Willink?

  What's the equivalent? Echo Charles.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:26:52Jocko Willink?

  What's the equivalent today to cover of Sports Illustrated? Cause back in the day, look, you know, internet wasn't quite as what the internet is now. Because so if you were a cover of Sports Illustrated, that was a big deal.

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:07Jocko Willink?

  Right? What's the equivalent right now?

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  There, I don't think there's an equivalent. Yeah, because it's all like fractured or whatever. Yeah, Sports Illustrated, that was the hub.

• 1:27:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like you had the unified attention of the world.

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22Jocko Willink?

  Like, there's no way you could get that much unified attention of the world right now. Maybe if you were, no, you couldn't.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  When you think about it, actually really, Sports Illustrated in the sports world, you know, because you got the sports world, then you got like, I mean, this is way smaller, but like Black Belt Magazine or something, you know, like you have your certain hubs for. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so now it's kind of the same deal, but now instead of like.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  Three or four or five hubs for each activity or whatever. There's like, I don't know.

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:53Speaker 01

  A hundred.

• 1:27:54Speaker 02

  That's an interesting thing to think about is like, what's an equivalent to that?

• 1:27:57Jocko Willink?

  Uh, like for a younger listener right now that doesn't remember Sports Illustrated and what Sports Illustrated was? And how huge it was like, it's, it's a huge deal.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:28:07Jocko Willink?

  And so you end up 12th in the overall standings, but you're rookie of the year. Rookie of the year for the Indy 500, rookie of the year for the Indy car series. There's a documentary called Girl Racer that comes out. You start your first of your famous Go Daddy ads. So all that's happening. You're female athlete of the year. You go on freaking tour, you're on the late show, you're on the Today Show, you're on Jimmy Kimmel, Good Morning American, CNN, every talk show in America. So this is, it's on.

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. It got real busy.

• 1:28:39Speaker 02

  Back when I was in England racing only on the weekends, I remember thinking to myself, how does anyone make a full-time job out of being a race car driver? And then I found out.

• 1:28:49Jocko Willink?

  When you're in between races, now that like with this, I keep visioning, you know, people like you breaking down with your car and like, how, how much time do you spend driving when you're not racing now that you're a pro? Is it all the time, all day, every day?

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  No, no, it's, I mean, it's, there's a, it's expensive. So there were a lot of actual rules got put in place to, uh, help the teams out with budgets. So we didn't have that many test days. There'd be like a certain amount of test days that you could do in a year and it might be like four.

• 1:29:18Jocko Willink?

  What?

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:19Jocko Willink?

  Okay. This is weird. In my mind, I thought you drove that car freaking every day.

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 1:29:23Jocko Willink?

  All day.

• 1:29:24Speaker 02

  So you'd really pretty much just do the weekends. So, um, but there'd be practice on the weekend. So you get there and they might have two practices on Friday. Um, practice on Saturday morning, then you might qualify and then the next day you race. Right? So there's like, there's like a, I can't remember. There's a, every series has a different flow and sometimes they'd change it from year to year. But basically you'd end up having a lot of times like three practices of qualifying and a race. So you'd get three to four hours of practice, uh, and then qualifying, then the race.

• 1:29:54Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 1:29:54Speaker 02

  So it's actually like a half day of practice. You get kind of like a half day of practice because when you go test at a track, you'd practice from nine to 12 and then one to five.

• 1:30:02Jocko Willink?

  How about video game simulator type things? You ever tried those things?

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  Oh, I hated them.

• 1:30:07Jocko Willink?

  Did other people use them?

• 1:30:08Speaker 02

  Um, not back then, then, but now they do. And now, like especially in Formula One, I do a lot of stuff for Formula One now with the, with hosting or with, um, analyst stuff. And, um, F1 drivers do a lot of simulation work, like they do, they're in the simulator. Um, and it's like super real and they wear the helmet.

• 1:30:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:26Speaker 02

  I did a little bit of it in NASCAR, but we didn't do any of that in Indy car. And so, um, no, um, but you know, I learned a trick really young when I was in go-karting and a visualization. And no one told me, like, I don't know how I, I don't even know why I had the idea. But I just, I knew, I knew that a way to practice was to close my eyes. And I would, it wasn't like I just like drew his my way around. I would discipline myself to like, but I would do it perfect. I didn't have to be like a accurate lap time in my mind's eye of the lap, but I just had to make sure that I was driving the lap and I would hit every corner just perfectly. So I would practice a perfect lap. And I did this a lot of times before I went out for qualifying or, and then before the race, just like visualizing a perfect lap.

• 1:31:11Speaker 02

  Um, so, uh, but that's, I mean, obviously you're not doing that many of those laps.

• 1:31:16Jocko Willink?

  All right. So now you're signed for another one with, uh, Ray Hall Letterman.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:31:21Jocko Willink?

  You end up doing the, the 24 hours of Daytona?

• 1:31:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I did, yeah.

• 1:31:26Jocko Willink?

  And that's with a few different drivers?

• 1:31:27Speaker 02

  Usually do four drivers total.

• 1:31:29Jocko Willink?

  And you're going 24 hours, see how far you can go.

• 1:31:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I think that first year, I feel like I was like with Rusty Wallace and I don't remember who else. There was a couple of really good drivers, um, and we were pretty fast, but it was because, um, it was be, it was because there were, the season was so short in Indy car at that point. I think our, we only had maybe 14 races in the season. It was our shortest season we'd ever had. And man, I don't, maybe we didn't even start till like April or something. So I, I think I was, I was doing that because it was like, my dad was like, you know, help me out. Like probably should get some more seat time instead of sitting out of the car for six months.

• 1:32:01Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:32:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:03Jocko Willink?

  And then, um, Toyota Indy 300, this is where Paul Dana got killed.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, beginning in 2006, yeah, exactly. My second year in IndyCar. He died in the morning and then we didn't race that day. I mean, yeah, I mean, it was, uh, there was a crash and he came around and didn't see it in time and hit it head on. And, um, and he died and he, they were getting ahold of his wife. His wife was in church. She was pregnant. He didn't know. Or maybe, I don't know. I feel like for some reason my mind said he didn't know, but she was pregnant and she was like in church on Sunday when this happened. And, um, so he, uh, so yeah, so we sat out that race, but that was the first time, that was not the first time I had actually been at the track when someone died though. When I was in England, there was someone that died in, in, at the track.

• 1:32:50Speaker 02

  Um, he crashed and hit an Armco barrier and how it has like gaps in it, you know, the Armco. There's like maybe three or two or three levels of the Armco and he, and he hit the Armco and, and, uh, died immediately.

• 1:33:05Jocko Willink?

  And you're, when's your next race after that?

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  Uh, probably within the next week or two. We race like either every week or every other week.

• 1:33:12Jocko Willink?

  Any, any sort of hesitation?

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  So what was interesting is that we didn't race that day and I, I basically was like, felt bad for my family and loved ones around me because I, knowing that that's a potential for me, I was totally ready to go out there and I kind of had this feeling of like, I feel, I feel like, I don't know what this says about me, but I feel bad for you guys that I don't worry. I like, I'm not, that's not as concerning enough for me to go like, I need a minute. I was like, I would have gone out there.

• 1:33:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. The weird thing is too, uh, I was just hunting.

• 1:33:51Speaker 02

  You probably can associate with that.

• 1:33:53Jocko Willink?

  Well, definitely can associate with losing friends, but I was out hunting and I was hunting for whitetail in Iowa. And you're waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting and. Is it a little bit boring? I guess, yeah, it's a little bit boring. Like you're sitting in a tree stand or you're sitting in a blind. And then all of a sudden, it's just like Buck comes in, it's over in 30 seconds. Like it just all happens so fast. But what I noticed, I watched a bunch of your races, I watched a bunch of these crashes. Is everything's just normal, normal, normal. I'm not saying it's boring, but it's normal, normal, normal, normal. And then in a split second.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:23Jocko Willink?

  It's just like someone's dead. Like so fast. It just happens and it could literally happen at any moment in that entire race from the first lap until the very last lap.

• 1:34:34Speaker 02

  You could do it by yourself. Something could break on your car and you could hit the wall and you just hit it a weird angle and something happens and you die. Absolutely. That's exactly right.

• 1:34:44Speaker 02

  So when you're in the car and you have a vibration and it's getting worse and you're radioing in, let's say you're in the race and you're like, ah, got a vibration. It's getting worse. They're like, okay, we don't see anything on our end because they're getting live data streaming from the car. They're like, let us know if it gets any worse. And it's like, oh my God, like it, you feel like your life's in your hands of like, how much do I compromise whether or not I feel like I should be careful versus screw it? Cause you don't know what screw it means. What if a wheel falls off?

• 1:35:17Jocko Willink?

  And that stuff happens.

• 1:35:19Speaker 02

  And it happens. I literally drove down the front straightaway at Kentucky one time testing and I felt this weird feeling and I jumped out of the throttle. And I'm going 200. If we're on an oval, Kentucky was an oval, you're all, you're going over 200 every time. And I lift out of the throttle and as soon as I lift off, like this thing and it spins around and the, like the right rear literally fell off the car.

• 1:35:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:42Jocko Willink?

  Check. All right. Um, you end up sixth. And look, there's so much stuff that you've done. I was trying to tell you this before the podcast. Like there's, you've done so much stuff in your life and so much stuff in racing. It was kind of hard to capture all, but you end up sixth at Grand P and say, Grand Prix at St. Petersburg, eighth in Japan 300, 10th at the Indy 500. You end up ninth in the, in the final standings. This is 2006. And then you switch to Andretti Green. Why'd you make that switch? Offer comes up, this is big negotiations.

• 1:36:10Speaker 02

  We weren't as fast the second year. Like I just, you know, I felt like, uh, I felt like I needed a new opportunity. Um, obviously at that point in time, negotiating everything from like the best team, the most important thing was driving for the best team you possibly could. But also money, salary, um, sponsors. So, um, so I just felt like it was a better opportunity somewhere else.

• 1:36:31Jocko Willink?

  And Andretti, obviously there's a big name there. When you say the best team, is that the people that are working in the pit? Is that, is that the people that are designing the cars? Or what is it?

• 1:36:43Speaker 02

  That is what it's made up of, but usually when I say best team, it just means they're the fastest, they are, they have a good, maybe they have a good combination, like the engine manufacturer that they're running, the chassis, like they just, and they have good engineers and they have good pit crews and they have a great reputation and year in, year out, they're really strong.

• 1:37:05Jocko Willink?

  2007 season's like eighth at St. Petersburg, seventh in Kansas, eighth at, eighth at the Indy 500, um, eighth at the Foyt 225. This is where you get in a fight with Dan Weldon.

• 1:37:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I, I remember every year, it's so funny you're saying this. I, this is such a dumb story, but I remember going in to get facials because I've been getting facials for like 20 years. And my friend Shannon, I should be like, how'd you do this weekend? And I was like eighth. She's like, I'm sick of you finishing eighth. Can you finish something different than eighth? Um, I'm still friends with Shannon. Um, and uh, but so we were pretty fast actually, but yeah, things kept happening. So the, this race at um, Milwaukee was an exciting one. And uh, and I've realized that part of what makes me remember a weekend is not necessarily how I start, but how I start and then finished in the delta. So this was one of those weekends that was a huge delta. I, I started off, I was slow in practice and then we just like hail maryed a whole different setup for the

• 1:38:02Speaker 02

  race, qualified in the back. And I had passed all the way. I was passing Dan Weldon for fifth place in the first stint. So the stint just means how long you're running those tires. So this is in the first like 80 laps of the race and the race is hundreds of laps long. So I haven't even pitted yet and I'm already passing for fifth. And I go into turn one and I go underneath them and he comes down and he just chops me and hits my tires and it bounces me into the grass on the inside. Now, we're not going 200 because this is a short track, it's a mile, but I mean, what are we doing, 150, 180? And so I about lose it and I come back out and I am so mad. And so I end up finishing fifth in the end. I go way, all the way back to last when this happens and

• 1:38:45Speaker 02

  and I end up finishing fifth. And after the race, I, you don't normally see drivers, like you think, oh, we're with everybody all weekend, but shoot, you get in, you go to your team, you get in your car, and you're, you know, you don't see drivers. So Dan's literally like right behind me on pit lane when he stops his car. And so I, I just go over and I just go over to him and I grab him and I grab him by the neck and I'm like putting my hand around his shoulder like I'm like hanging out buddy, but I am grabbing his trap so freaking hard that if you look at a picture, you can see it. And you can see him like cringing as he's walking. And, and so I asked him, like, I was obviously pissed off and I was asking him what he was doing and I was yelling at him. And then, yeah, so that was, you know,

• 1:39:27Speaker 02

  these are all things that just like propelled the mania and propelled the popularity and the curiosity. I get it. Like, I don't, some, to some degree, I don't like myself for all the things that I've done, but they were just all part of growing up and they were part of my decisions and they were honest and authentic, right? Like, I, we were talking about before we started about this authenticity thing. I've said forever that I totally understand that not everyone's gonna like me. It's not, it's not possible to be yourself and have everybody like you, but at least they can respect your authenticity. So if the, if I got an, if I was being interviewed, I mean, when I moved, when I went to NASCAR, GoDaddy sent me to media training because I never would say their name. Like, I didn't say my sponsors, because I'd answer the question. I wouldn't be like, oh, how can I like fit

• 1:40:10Speaker 02

  all my sponsors in and give some bullshit answer about like the guys back at the shop? You know, I would answer the question. So I was always really honest and authentic. And, and so I was really mad and, and, and everybody knew about it.

• 1:40:22Jocko Willink?

  Is that being mad? How much of that being mad is like, you could get killed? And how much of that being mad is like, I could have won this freaking race?

• 1:40:30Speaker 02

  I could have won this race, totally, yeah. Because actually, I remember when I'd like pray before I'd, you know, went out on the track, and I would actually feel like I was catching a little loophole by asking to do really well. Because, you know, most people be like, let's be safe. And yes, I wanted to be protected, but I asked to do really well because I was like, because if I do really well, I didn't crash. Like, I felt like I was asking in a loophole. Felt a little selfish, but I was like, look, ask and you shall receive, right?

• 1:40:59Jocko Willink?

  Apparently you had some kind of a meeting with the, with the president of Indy to reconcile with, with Dan after this incident?

• 1:41:07Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm sure we were totally called to like the, the, the, the penalty box.

• 1:41:14Speaker 02

  I've been called to the penalty box many times. The other time I was called to the penalty, penalty box was because I was leaving Loud and Motor Speed, like Loud, New Hampshire at the racetrack and they weren't letting all the golf carts out after the race. And I was like, we're on a golf cart, our cars are parked outside, we're trying to hurry up and get to our car that's parked there and waiting and staged for us so we can drive to the airport and hurry up and fly home. And so I was like, here, I was like, well, give me your radio. And so I got on the main radio and I was like, um, why are they not letting? And so Mike Helton in NASCAR, that was another like penalty box weekend where I was like, he's like, you can't ever do that again. I'm like, oh shoot.

• 1:41:49Jocko Willink?

  You end up second in Detroit, you end up seventh overall in that season, 2007, 2008, 10th in St. St. Petersburg, Indy, uh, Japan 300, you end up winning.

• 1:42:02Speaker 02

  Finally. Yeah. And that's exactly how it felt. Like I, I'm, there was opportunities along the way in the years previous and, um, you know, all the way tracking back to my fourth or fifth race in Indy car at the Indy 500 and, um, and it just felt like it was just, it just took a long time. And so it felt like such a relief. Yeah. It was a, it was a big relief and.

• 1:42:22Jocko Willink?

  First woman to win a top level sanctioned open wheel car racing event.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:27Jocko Willink?

  Ever.

• 1:42:27Speaker 02

  Really any racing.

• 1:42:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:29Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm not great on history and stats, but, um, but I'm gonna say any, cause none, none, none, none have ever won a NASCAR and I've ever won an F1 and I'm gonna say in any racing.

• 1:42:38Jocko Willink?

  How much hype was there when you won that right race?

• 1:42:40Speaker 02

  Uh, any top level, I should clarify that, not any racing, cause girls have won.

• 1:42:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:45Speaker 02

  How much what?

• 1:42:46Jocko Willink?

  Was it crazy? Did you get the cover of Sports Illustrated again?

• 1:42:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:42:49Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:49Speaker 02

  It went, um, I did, yeah. And, and the cover this time said, yes, she can.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  I, I can't remember actually what the first cover said. I was trying to remember. I just remember it was all red. And I signed over A-Rod's head every single time I autographed because of the positioning of where I was on the thing and I kept remembering thinking he'd probably get mad at that. But I got on the cover of Sports Illustrated again. We shot that before the race weekend because it was going into the Indy 500. And yeah, it was a busy time. We flew straight, flew straight, took the helicopter to, from the track to the airport, drank a whole bottle of sake, like a giant, giant, giant bottle of sake with my mom and dad were there thankfully, and Haley who's been with me since then.

• 1:43:37Speaker 02

  She's my VP, my manager, my assistant, my name, one of my best friends. But we all flew to Long Beach, California and the last, the last ever Champ Car race was that weekend. It was, they were, they were gonna, it was done after that and they were merging with us as the IndyCar Series. So, I went to that and was, I landed and slept for about two or three hours and woke up at 3 a.m. for hair and makeup to be on all the morning shows on the east coast and yeah, it was a bit media tour.

• 1:44:11Jocko Willink?

  Just hype it all up.

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:13Jocko Willink?

  Fourth at Kansas Speedway, then the Indy 500 comes around again and you have a collision in the pit.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  Oh my god, that was the only, yeah, other than my very last one, that was, yeah, I was, I would've, I was running sixth and Ryan Briscoe came out of his pit box and he just went straight to the wall, which just means there's a wall separating the track and the pit lane and so there's only so much room and so he came out of his pit box and they just sent him and you're not, you're supposed to make sure you're clear all the way out. You go lane by lane and he just went all the way out and he hit my left rear and it broke the suspension and I pulled off to the side and then they wheeled me back, all the way back to my pit box. I was so mad. It was the last pit stop of the race. I was running sixth and I got out of my car and I didn't, you could find footage of this very

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  easily, and I got out of my car and I didn't give a shit what anyone said. I just got out and I started walking down pit lane with my helmet on stomping my way down to Ryan Briscoe's pit stall because he was in his pit box and all I kept thinking is if I can't go back out you can't go back out and so I was like I don't know what I'll do I don't know if I'm gonna jump on his front wing and break it or take his steering wheel or what the hell I'm gonna do but he's not getting back out and so I make it like three quarters of the way down there and I can actually hear the crowd now because they can see what I'm doing for all I know I'm on the Jumbotron I don't know and I'm not thinking about any of this stuff though like when people ask about feeling like the crowd or hearing or thinking about things

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  I actually don't feel like anyone's watching once I'm out there because there's so much to watch I don't think they're watching me and and so this very large security guard who is in charge of all of security for IndyCar Charles came in front of me and he stopped and stood there in front of me and I'm like I'm looking up and he's like and he points his finger back like get over the pit wall and I was like okay then I went over and in the meantime Roger Penske is on Ryan Briscoe's radio and he's on the radio going Ryan put your visor down what he's put your visor down because I was heading down pit lane and just didn't want him to like he's like just put your visor down

• 1:46:28Speaker 02

  so anyway but I got sent back over and then I had to walk my way back to my pit stall and so I was super angry again one of those things that like it's not the like I got I I I created drama outside of just like the actual on track stuff because I I'm just different like I just I get really angry and I'm not afraid to show it and and it's just part of my personality

• 1:46:56Jocko Willink?

  yeah it's really wild that you can go watch like I watched so many clips of you and my YouTube algorithm right now is just overflowing

• 1:47:03Speaker 02

  by the way you're on a high algorithm with mine too absolutely

• 1:47:06Jocko Willink?

  NASCAR and Indy racing and all these little clips of you so like I was watching because you know I read about it and I was like I would read what happened and then I'd be like what does that look like and I was like wait is this story like what's the spin on this you know what I mean you think Spin on this and like, what does it really look like? And so you go watch it and you can watch it in slow motion and you can watch like analysts and like all these different things. So all these little crashes and stuff. I've watched them all probably from nine different angles.

• 1:47:30Speaker 02

  Oh, man, this is a lot of them.

• 1:47:32Jocko Willink?

  To watch you. Yes, you are walking back to the pit with like full freaking anger.

• 1:47:38Speaker 02

  Full F you.

• 1:47:38Jocko Willink?

  Full F you energy, 100%. It's so funny to watch. Funny.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's just one. I mean, I've kicked. I remember one time I got so mad. I ran out of fuel at the end of a race in Michigan and I was coming back and I like threw my helmet and then I got back to the pit and I kicked what I thought was a full water barrel thing and it was empty. And I knocked it over and I literally ran forward and picked up and put it up because it stood it back up because I was like, oops, that's not what I meant to do. I just wanted to kick a tire.

• 1:48:09Jocko Willink?

  Oh, check. You end up 2008, six in the final rankings. Uh, you're still just going media crazy. You're on American chopper, by the way, right? Um, all kinds of different stuff. 2009 season in the off season, you go, you do another 24 hours of Daytona. You guys had some kind of issue. You didn't finish that. Uh, I think the car got jacked up.

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  And the, I think so. Overheating or something.

• 1:48:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Um, fourth at Long Beach, fifth in Kansas, third at the Indy 500.

• 1:48:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Had a, had a shot to win that one. A really good one. Um, that was probably my most legitimate, um, speed should have won. Um, I mean, the first one was good, but I, there was some strategy involved. This one was an authentic, like you're running third, you could have won the race. Um, I, there was a really long, long caution late in the race and, uh, one of my teammates crashed and they had to fix the safer barrier. And it took 14 laps of caution to do that. And so I was good on fuel, but everyone else started to get gooder and gooder and gooder.

• 1:49:08Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so they're all topping off.

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  No, because they were under caution.

• 1:49:11Jocko Willink?

  Oh, so they're running like.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  So they're running slow.

• 1:49:13Jocko Willink?

  Slow cylinders.

• 1:49:14Speaker 02

  So instead of having to run full speed, they're running slow.

• 1:49:16Jocko Willink?

  They're in level eight.

• 1:49:17Speaker 02

  Yep. And we're all, and they're, and while they might have, they might've had to pit with 10 laps to go, maybe five laps to go. Now they don't have to pit. So I was good on fuel and would have won. Um, so I run third and I, I, I'm like all over. I think it was Castor Neves's ass forever and I just couldn't fi- I could not get by him and I ended up third. Um, and I came into the pits afterwards and I remember getting out of the car and looking at my engineers and, and they were like, hmm. And I thought, I didn't know the scenario by the way. They didn't tell me like those guys in front of you, like you would have won. I don't know anything about that. Like I'm just doing the best I can with what I have. And so I find that out after I come in and they're like, "You really should have won the race because everyone else should have run out of fuel and

• 1:50:02Speaker 02

  you should not, but that caution was so long." And so they were so bummed because like we had planned it perfect. And, uh, and we were third. So it was like, we were running really well and we were totally the winning strategy. Uh, and so they were really bummed and then I found out why. Because I thought afterwards, I thought, "I did good. I did third. Like, good, right?"

• 1:50:21Jocko Willink?

  What are the unwritten rules for like you're trying to pass someone that's block, like kind of blocking you?

• 1:50:29Speaker 02

  Well, in Indy cars, because it's open wheel, there's not much you can do. I mean, you could just, you try and trick them a little. You can like fake them out a little bit here and there. Um, but there's, the only thing I'd say is on ovals that where there's multiple lanes, when you're running in front of someone, there was just kind of an unwritten rule that you weren't supposed to, uh, like let's say I'm running the bottom lane and someone else is running the middle lane. If someone came down in the middle of the corner and came in front of me, like that's pretty shit because it takes so much aerodynamics off of your car that what's going to happen is that the front is going to stop turning and then you're going to catch the next lane and then the, you're going to have a wheel in it, which means you're turned

• 1:51:13Speaker 02

  and then it's going to catch and then it's going to snap because the back is going to react to the amount of steering you have into it. Once you hit clean air. So a lot of times it'd end up in this like really big like slide snap moment. And so that was kind of the only real unwritten rule that you were kind of not really supposed to do.

• 1:51:30Jocko Willink?

  So as you're behind this guy, you're trying to fake him, but there's really just not much you can do?

• 1:51:36Speaker 02

  I'm just trying to get the perfect run. I'm trying to like, I'm just do, I'm trying to like time it so, so perfectly because the cars aerodynamically, you can't just like run really close and then you have to have a run and that run has to come down the straightaway, but you have to be close enough in the corner, which is hard when you need downforce to, to get a run actually. Otherwise you just get close to them. So you need a run where you're like half the distance that you normally are, but you time it just perfectly that you come off the corner and you finish it off halfway down the straightaway and then you pull out and you get by them. Yeah, so you just have to, you have to have enough speed and you have to time it right.

• 1:52:13Jocko Willink?

  And the cars are all, like, they're all, their top speed is, what's the difference between the top speed? If you're running a really fast car, a really slow car, what's the difference between that? Like a mile an hour?

• 1:52:22Speaker 02

  A few mile an hour, yeah.

• 1:52:23Jocko Willink?

  So it's not like you're gonna blow by anybody.

• 1:52:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, it's not. I mean, we're talking about percentage wise, at 240 miles an hour, it's not much.

• 1:52:30Jocko Willink?

  Check. You end up fifth in the overall standings that year, that's 2009. You have the most viewed Super Bowl ad in 2009, which was for GoDaddy. It was the enhancement ad where they had a bunch of girls that had enhancements. Echo Charles. Yes. And then you had an enhancement on your website. So that was the joke.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  So many of those fun commercials over the years.

• 1:52:55Jocko Willink?

  GoDaddy made a bunch of classic commercials with you. 2010, seventh in St. Petersburg, sixth at Indy 500, second at the Texas Motor Speedway, 10th in the overall rankings. And this is when you start a little bit of stock car activity.

• 1:53:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was kinda curious, and there was more and more road course races on the IndyCar schedule than there was. Like, we had started with three, and then it went to five, and then it was like seven and eight. And I just loved, I really loved oval racing. And so I liked road courses, but I, and I was becoming increasingly unhappy with where I was team-wise. And there was, you know, more behind the scenes, business stuff with sponsorship and money and all that stuff that was frustrating. And so I was like, well, maybe NASCAR.

• 1:53:44Jocko Willink?

  Are you pulling in like, awesome money from like, GoDaddy? Is GoDaddy your car sponsor? Or are they your sponsor?

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  They are the car sponsor. So at that point in time, it's going through the team. So what had happened was, actually, I can tell the story. I was put on a five-year gag order after it happened, so I never told the story out loud. But I'll tell it, why not? And so, so I, so I'm driving for Andretti, and I have a profit sharing contract where I get Um, over nine million dollars, I got forty percent of whatever came on the car. So, we were able to do math because some of the sponsors I helped bring over, which I paid for in the front end too, when I was driving for Ray Hall, those sponsors, there was a couple of sponsors that came with me and one of them was Argent, another one was maybe One America, I can't remember exactly the other one, Meyer.

• 1:54:32Speaker 02

  Um, and, um, and so I didn't get paid at the end of that contract. So, I didn't make, my second year in IndyCar, I didn't finish getting paid that year. And, um, I had to also pay additional because those sponsors left and they said it was a breach of contract because I, I was, I told them where to go. And there's a lot of rules on like that kind of stuff of what you can say and not say. So, I, I, I, I mean, hundreds of thousands, three or four hundred thousand dollars, which was like half of my earnings in two thousand and six went back to the team. I didn't get it. Um, but half of it was they didn't pay me and the other half I had to pay them to like get out of this scenario. So, I've already helped the team that I'm going to Andretti with these sponsors by paying this problem off. And so, and settling.

• 1:55:15Speaker 02

  And so, um, so then we get into a profit sharing deal and I mean, I have Argent, I have Go Daddy, I have One America, Meyer, like I have tons of, I have really great sponsors. And we also know that the minimum amount that anyone can be on the car for is half a million dollars. And so, you know, this car has way over nine million dollars on it. Like I think the primary was seven. So, like, you know, there's a ton of money on the car and so it comes time to get paid and we were supposed to get, you know, paperwork on that. Like we should see what's coming in and we never got any. We just, we just get paid and I got paid more than the base salary, but only based on like a nominal amount. And I was always like, that's bullshit. This doesn't feel like it makes sense.

• 1:55:59Speaker 02

  And so, uh, after a couple of years, I, um, and we can't get any, we don't get actual, any official documents that are qual- qualify for anything. Um, one point, we got a one pager and by one pager, I literally mean it said like the company, how much they paid, how much went to me and how much went to the team. Like it was like- It was bullshit. It wasn't documents, this was on contracts. I have no idea what the actual numbers were.

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  And so I went into mediation and then arbitration. So while I was still driving for them, I mean, I was suing them essentially for a year and a half. And so, uh, so I had like seven, three hundred, I had three quarters of a million dollars of legal fees that I had racked up in a year and a half. We went to arbitration and, um, I mean, one of the sponsors, Argent, literally wrote a letter that said, "The only reason why we went to this team was Annika Patrick, the only reason." And they didn't even award me that money. They stood on the sand and said like, "Oh, well, you know, they came because, you know, Daria Frankiti was married to Ashley Judd and they thought that was cool." And it's like, they just lied and said a bunch of bullshit.

• 1:57:10Speaker 02

  But then ultimately, one of the guys, the attorney for them, said, "Why should she get all that money?" And when he said that line, I knew that was the truth. They did not think I should get all that money. And so, um, so the settlement was something called splitting the baby, which is, I guess, in legal terms. And so I was awarded a million dollars. And I, so I didn't lose money, but I didn't really win. And, um, and so, uh, I mean, I was suing for honestly like 20. Cause I, I mean, there was millions of dollars every year they didn't pay me. Millions. And, um, and so we were also going in on like trouble damages and like, you know, we went in really hard, uh, but we were awarded a million dollars. I've never told this story before.

• 1:57:53Speaker 02

  No one knows these numbers either. I'm telling you honest numbers too.

• 1:57:56Jocko Willink?

  And when you got that million bucks, you also had, even though you-

• 1:57:58Speaker 02

  I paid 750,000 dollars. I wanted to also get legal fees back too. That was part of my, part of what I was suing for as well. Um, and so they, then they literally like never provided documents. Like went in and like my attorneys went into their office and they like barely provided anything. And so, um, anyway, that was the last day that the attorney for that team worked. He was done after that. And I saw that coming. And, um, and so that was the end of that, that was the end of that. And so I wasn't really happy. Like they weren't paying me, they were, it was like the racing was shifting. And I was like, screw this. I just don't want to be here anymore. And there wasn't really much, everything well to where to go. And ready was one of the best teams. And there was Penske, which is really good, but I wasn't going to get a seat on Penske.

• 1:58:43Speaker 02

  And you know, Ganassi was a good team, but you know, like they don't pay their drivers and they've got some bad reputation here and there. So I'm like, I don't know. And they had a full stall too. So I wasn't going to drive for Andretti either. So where was I going to go? So I'm like, screw it. I'll go to, I'll go race NASCAR.

• 1:58:59Jocko Willink?

  Boom.

• 1:59:00Speaker 02

  So I did.

• 1:59:00Jocko Willink?

  And how'd you like that when you showed up there?

• 1:59:02Speaker 02

  Um, well, I actually loved it. When I drove, uh, drove the car for the first time, I had a blast. Like I thought, I was like, I'm home. Yee-haw. I remember, oh my God, you'll, it's funny because it includes 10-4. Um, but, uh, there was two things that were said in this first test day with this, I mean, I love my crew chief. Um, uh, he was such a nice guy and he was so nice and he was helping me out. And at one point in time, he was saying, you know, when you come off that corner there and you're getting that y'all, you know, it's a, that's right where you want it. And I was like, they say y'all for everything, but he was saying y'all.

• 1:59:39Speaker 02

  And then I remember after the test, he had sent me a text message and it said 1-0-4. And I was like, what does 1-0-4 mean? 10-4.

• 1:59:50Jocko Willink?

  That was a wild thing, listening to how much.

• 1:59:52Speaker 02

  Tony Uri Jr. Was his name. He was such a great guy.

• 1:59:55Jocko Willink?

  How much you rely on that? Who, who's the person that's like coaching you as you're driving? That's like telling you like, go down, go down, go up, you know, come on.

• 2:00:02Speaker 02

  No one.

• 2:00:02Jocko Willink?

  There's no one doing that. I hear like radio calls. I heard radio calls, people talking to you, telling you like.

• 2:00:06Speaker 02

  The spotter will give you some feedback. They might say, okay, so they're, they're not telling you exactly what to do. They're telling you where other cars are around you. So if you're out there running, they'll say like, uh, you got, um, you know, the eight cars, four, five car lengths back, three car lengths back, looking inside, inside, inside, inside. Clear, you know, like they'll go, go through what someone else is doing. They're not necessarily telling you. They will sometimes say, hey, you know, uh, you're, everybody's, uh, you know, you're pulling everybody off of two, but you're losing a lot out of four. You know, they might, they can see that stuff and they'll give you some feedback, but they're not necessarily telling you what to do. They might say, hey.

• 2:00:46Speaker 02

  The track is, you know, the line's changing. Everybody's moving up there. You know, the high line's coming in. You know, something like that.

• 2:00:54Jocko Willink?

  And then what about the engineer who's like, hey, you're, this heat, this monitor's going up, or like, or you're saying back, hey, I'm getting vibrations over here. What's that relationship like?

• 2:01:03Speaker 02

  They're the ones that you tell for the handling. So, you know, I'll say like, you know, it's a really pointy on turn in. The center's fine and just a little tight off or something like that. And they'll, they'll think, okay, what can I do? Can I like maybe a little left or a spring, a little left or air pressure? And they'll make the change. They won't check with me necessarily. They'll just make changes on the car for me. So sometimes they can suggest things in the cockpit. In IndyCar, there was a lot more to work with. We had shock adjusters, track bar adjusters, brake bias. We had various different things we could adjust on, but in NASCAR, it was very minimal. Really didn't have a lot of things that we could adjust. So they would do that on a pit stop. So they would change springs, tire pressure and things like that.

• 2:01:45Jocko Willink?

  And you must have to obviously have a great relationship with these people that you're talking to. So they can kind of like, you know each other, right?

• 2:01:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 2:01:52Jocko Willink?

  So that it's like, oh, when, when Danica says this, I need to do this for her.

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  Oh, sure. Just like you learn people, you learn people, you learn.

• 2:02:01Speaker 02

  You know, I'm going, I'm at this new gym for the last few months. And one of the things they ask in the gym is like, okay, on a scale from one to 10, like how hard was that? One being super easy, obviously 10 the hardest. And so everybody has a different read. So mine is like, eh, seven, you know, but like, you know, like the eh is my answer, right? And then I give kind of a number like, or I'll be like, I'm like, I don't know, six, you know? How many more could you do? I don't know, 10. You know, I mean, like there's, there's numbers, but there's more my body language, my voice, my reaction. So you learn people, right? Like I could not give a number to my trainer now and he would know what it meant.

• 2:02:42Speaker 02

  And so you really learn each other. And it's the same thing with relationships with coworkers and with engineer and driver. You learn each other and you learn what the reactions mean. And, and when I say the car is tight, like, or I say the car is understeer, they're different languages and different sports in IndyCar and NASCAR. But if the car is not turning, they know the way that I say it, probably how bad it is, you know? So, and we still use number systems, but, but you really learn each other. Yeah.

• 2:03:11Jocko Willink?

  So you kick off this stock car thing, uh, Samstown 300, the Ford 300, you end up 43rd overall after only 13 starts, which is like.

• 2:03:20Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, yeah, cuz I didn't run the full series.

• 2:03:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, um, you, you end up doing some acting this year where you are, you're in CSI New York and it's a real stretch of a role because you play a race car driver that's suspected of murder.

• 2:03:37Speaker 02

  I love it. Everywhere I went, like I'd go on to like talk shows and they'd be like, we're gonna do a go-kart race around the, around the set. And I was like, okay.

• 2:03:48Jocko Willink?

  Uh, you did your own voice on Simpsons and South Park. So again, there's still a lot of mania going on.

• 2:03:54Speaker 02

  Actually, the, the Simpsons I did, I recorded it in Iowa. I remember I was racing in Iowa at Iowa Speedway and we had to go into some sound studio and like, you know, Des Moines or something. And I recorded for the Simpsons, but the South Park one just came out. They never, they never tell you either. They came out a very similar time. So I knew about the Simpsons and I recorded for that one, but the, the South Park one just happens.

• 2:04:16Jocko Willink?

  Do you watch South Park at all?

• 2:04:18Speaker 02

  I, I like it. I've seen a bunch of episodes. I don't, I'm not like one of those, I'm not turning it on at night when there's nothing else on, but I've totally watched tons of episodes.

• 2:04:26Jocko Willink?

  Those guys are freaking brilliant.

• 2:04:27Speaker 02

  They are brilliant, aren't they?

• 2:04:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And they get away with murder. They get away with just.

• 2:04:31Speaker 02

  It's unreal, right? What do you think about like the Simpsons too? Like, I feel like if anyone dips into conspiracy theories at all, you'll see that it, like, there's so many clips of like the Simpsons told the future. Isn't that creepy and interesting?

• 2:04:46Jocko Willink?

  2000 and whatever they're talking about stuff. You're like, yo.

• 2:04:49Speaker 02

  I mean, it's weird, isn't it?

• 2:04:53Speaker 02

  It's like an interdimensional show that's like not running a timeline that we're not a linear timeline or something.

• 2:05:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. Um, but you're still, now 2011, you're still doing Indy.

• 2:05:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:06Jocko Willink?

  12th in St. Petersburg. You had a couple of collisions, but you still came in 12th, fifth in Milwaukee. This is when, we already talked about this earlier, but this is when Dan Weldon got killed at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway.

• 2:05:17Speaker 02

  The last one of the season.

• 2:05:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, just freaking nightmare.

• 2:05:22Speaker 02

  You know, um, it was a. It was also, there was a, there was a big bounty on the race. The promoter, Randy Bernard, was running it at that point in time. He was a PBR guy, he would like would run PBR. And so he came over to run IndyCar, super nice guy, but promoter. And he had taken out a big insurance claim on some, on whoever, and it was on, it was for Dan to win the race. And I think it was like, he started in the very back. And if he won, he won like five million dollars or something like that. And actually, Dan was gonna take my seat and drive the GoDaddy car. Uh, at Andretti. So, um, no, hang on, sorry. Yeah. He was coming back. He had run for Ganassi.

• 2:06:03Speaker 02

  And then he went, and then he went to a different team, John Barnes' team. And then he was coming back and he was gonna, he was gonna drive the GoDaddy car. Um, and, uh, and so there was a lot on the line, like for him to go win the race. I mean, five million dollars is a lot of money. What does that mean, a bounty on him? It's, I don't know, that's how they described it, like, or not a bounty, but it would have been a, um, I feel like they used that word, but there was an insurance policy taken out. Um, sorry, Bonnie probably is the wrong, I just, for some reason, I feel like I remember that word. So the insurance policy is for him to win? Yeah, it's, well, it's, it's cause the insurance money that they paid to get this. So basically, um, you know, they, if he won, it was five million dollars. And instead of paying the five million dollars, this insurance company, they used. And so he just had to pay like a fee.

• 2:06:47Speaker 02

  So I don't remember what it was, a few hundred, eight hundred thousand dollars. And that was enough. So basically, it was an eight hundred thousand dollar promotion. So if they won, the, the, the insurance paid the five million dollars. So IndyCar didn't end up having to pay the five million dollars. It would have been this sort of, someone that was hedging their bets that it wasn't going to happen. So they took the eight hundred grand or whatever it ended up being to, to get this, uh, to get this, um, paid if, if he did win. Um, so anyways, there's a lot on the line and it's lap 11 and chaos breaks out. And, and honestly, there was just so many drivers that were not oval respectful. They were like Europeans and different people, like drivers that just didn't get it, didn't have the right amount of respect and were just doing a lot of stupid things.

• 2:07:30Jocko Willink?

  And stupid things is what? Cutting into people's winds?

• 2:07:34Speaker 02

  Totally, cutting them off air wise, chopping, swerving. Like, swerving is so dumb. Like, honestly, you're, you're open, running an open wheel car and, you know, it's just not smart. So, climb wheels pretty easily.

• 2:07:48Jocko Willink?

  Explain swerving.

• 2:07:49Speaker 02

  So, swerving, so like, you know, if there's a car next to you and you like swerve into them.

• 2:07:53Jocko Willink?

  Just literally swerving into them.

• 2:07:55Speaker 02

  That's so dumb.

• 2:07:56Jocko Willink?

  What do you get out of it?

• 2:07:58Speaker 02

  There was some thought about like side, like a little bit of like the wind next to the car would kind of help you. And that's more of a stock car thing aerodynamically, but um, I think also just to intimidate.

• 2:08:14Jocko Willink?

  Chuck, well, as you mentioned earlier, you guys kind of, that, that race got abandoned because there was such a bad accident.

• 2:08:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, Dan died, yeah.

• 2:08:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, Dan died and you end up that season 10th overall, but now you're, now you're in the NASCAR.

• 2:08:27Speaker 02

  Now I'm gone, yeah.

• 2:08:28Jocko Willink?

  15th at Daytona, 12th in Phoenix, 10th at the Subway Jalapeno Open, you end up 26 overall. And, and then it's full on, 2012, it's full on NASCAR.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  2012 full on NASCAR, yep. I mean, I done, so I did, in two, so in 2010 and 11, I did 10, I was legally allowed to do um, one NASCAR race a month, uh, as long as it wasn't in conflict with my IndyCar schedule. So, we didn't race every year, every weekend in IndyCar, and NASCAR basically raced every weekend. So, every month, I could race all the way up until the IndyCar season started. And then once IndyCar season was over, I could race all the races in NASCAR, but in the season, I could only do one a month. So, I raced a ton. I raced all, basically every week. I did 30 races, I think.

• 2:09:16Jocko Willink?

  And again, that seems crazy going from car to car to car to car, right? That seems crazy.

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a little crazy.

• 2:09:21Jocko Willink?

  Seems like you would mess something up. Are the, are all the, you know, controls the same?

• 2:09:26Speaker 02

  Uh, no, not at all. I mean, I went from a, I went from paddle shifting to an H pattern.

• 2:09:34Jocko Willink?

  That's wild.

• 2:09:35Speaker 02

  Rolled back the clocks a few decades.

• 2:09:37Jocko Willink?

  Luckily, you're so good.

• 2:09:38Speaker 02

  Well.

• 2:09:38Jocko Willink?

  That was just no factor.

• 2:09:39Speaker 02

  And I think too, sometimes it's like, you know, when you jump into a certain situation that you've been in before, you have like a, you have a, you know, like a constellation of muscle memory for that environment, right? Like you have like, all the systems are ready in place. It's a, it's, it was harder when I did full-time NASCAR, like in 2012, I was racing full-time nationwide, which was the series below. And I did 10 cup races to prepare me for the 2013 season where I did full-time cup. And so it was harder to go from the cup car to the nationwide car because they were so similar than it was to go from an Indy car to a stock car.

• 2:10:17Jocko Willink?

  Better to have something that's radically different.

• 2:10:19Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:10:20Jocko Willink?

  You're not getting confused on the little things. It seemed like to me, when I like, looked at your history of 2012, Daytona 500 crash, uh, hit a wall at Eldora Speedway, Bristol Motor Speedway crash, Hollywood Casino 400 crash. It seemed like a rough introduction to NASCAR.

• 2:10:37Speaker 02

  It was a little bit and some, some of it was my fault, some of it was not my fault. Um, yeah, I mean, I think I, I feel like at Auto Club, um, I remember I got, I got absolutely taken out. There's got, I mean, I know there's footage of this. The car, I was driving down the back straightaway and I was on the inside and the car on the right of me just literally turned my right, right, just hooked me. Just cracked, literally crashed me. Like there's just not much you can do about that.

• 2:11:03Jocko Willink?

  There's, uh, how much of that happens because they're pissed at you or you're pissed at someone else?

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  There's a li, there's a lot of, a lot in NASCAR is kind of like, it's got a very good old boy feel. Like they're like, you know, you're not coming in here, even if you're a guy, like, you know, there are some F1 drivers or Indy car drivers or, or stock or even sports car racers that are like road course experts, let's say, and they'll come in and like the rest of the field will be like, oh, no, you, no, no, you're not, oh, no, you're not, no, you're not, you're not. And so they're, they're not just going to let you come in and just, uh, Rain all over their parade.

• 2:11:39Jocko Willink?

  Cause.

• 2:11:40Speaker 02

  And so now I'm a girl too. And look, I didn't like, I didn't like being, and I'm coming from Indy. I'm an Indy car driver. I'm a girl. I'm like coming in. And I have all the media attention and they, they just like, I'm just a triple hate girl. Triple hate, not triple threat, triple hate.

• 2:11:54Jocko Willink?

  So then 2013.

• 2:11:55Speaker 02

  I don't blame them to be honest. Can you? I can't. I didn't like being beat by a girl. I didn't like to, you know, like I can't really blame them. It's all right. Everything is such a, there's such a, there's such a balance with everything.

• 2:12:06Jocko Willink?

  I can fully understand someone comes in from a different category, like in jujitsu. Like when a wrestler goes against a jujitsu guy, all the jujitsu guys are like, want that wrestler to lose. But when that wrestler goes against a boxer, all the grapplers, including the jujitsu people are all together wanting, you know, that person to beat the striker. So yeah, I can see where if you're coming in from Indy car and they're like, oh, these yuppie.

• 2:12:31Speaker 02

  Indy car.

• 2:12:32Jocko Willink?

  Indy car.

• 2:12:32Speaker 02

  Wine and cheese people. Yeah. Actually I was the, I was just doing an appearance uh, uh, for a company and, and, and the, he asked me to describe all the different series and I was like, you know, Indy car was wine and, okay, Indy car is like wine and cheese, you know, it's sophisticated, but you know, it's nice and you're, you truly did have wine and cheese at night sometimes. Like there'd be like chef, you know, like one of the cooks would be making something. There'd be like a little wine party and, and, um, and then go to, um, NASCAR and it would, it was like, beer and guns, you know, and just like, good old boys and hanging out and you know, they're the ones that are going shooting guns at the end of the night after drinking, you know, not at the racetrack, but I'm just like sort of painting you a picture.

• 2:13:14Speaker 02

  Uh, but they're wild and crazy and fun and you know, they're much more relaxed and, uh, and then you go to F1 and F1 is like champagne and caviar.

• 2:13:23Jocko Willink?

  Oh, it's just next level.

• 2:13:23Speaker 02

  And there literally is champagne and caviar and lobster and you know, my friend went to the Austin race and she did the whole big like $15,000 a ticket for the paddock club. And she was entertaining some important guests and so there's four of them and, and they like, she's like, you roll up and they literally have Ferrari champagne pouring you as you walk in and there's lobster and everything you could want. And so for, Formula One is very, very champagne and caviar. And so it's, uh, and it's very, very, very perfect, you know, and like, you know, the hospitalities have Michelin star chefs and if you get your glass of wine, you better believe that sucker's in like a fancy Riddell glass, you know, that's not, it's not, you're not getting a solo cup.

• 2:14:04Jocko Willink?

  Is this reflected in how much it costs to run the teams?

• 2:14:06Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 2:14:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:08Speaker 02

  Um, although I will say NASCAR is expensive because there's so many races. Um, and because they could drive so much, they could probably get it because it was so popular for a while. But, um, but F1 is uber expensive. It costs a couple hundred million dollars to run a car or a team.

• 2:14:23Jocko Willink?

  To run a team.

• 2:14:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, a couple hundred million. The budget is one, 143 million, but that's not the budget budget. That's just like the, the, there's certain flying items that they can audit and, and keep within that budget. But then of course there's loopholes always like, how can we allocate this to a different, in a different way? That is outside of the budget and just whoever does the best job of that. Cause as my dad taught me when I was young, speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

• 2:14:50Jocko Willink?

  That's what it boils down to.

• 2:14:51Speaker 02

  I mean, it's the same, I mean, the same thing I would imagine for like equipment, whether you're talking about knives or guns or trucks or helicopters. Like, I mean, the best stuff is better.

• 2:14:59Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  It's more expensive.

• 2:15:01Jocko Willink?

  It's the way it works.

• 2:15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:03Jocko Willink?

  Check. So we go from, so you went from what wine and cheese.

• 2:15:08Speaker 02

  To beer and guns.

• 2:15:09Jocko Willink?

  Beer and guns.

• 2:15:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was fun too. It was really fun.

• 2:15:13Jocko Willink?

  Uh, so 2013, that's your first like full time, full time doing the full sprint series.

• 2:15:19Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:15:19Jocko Willink?

  First women, first woman to clinch pole position.

• 2:15:22Speaker 02

  At the Daytona 500.

• 2:15:23Jocko Willink?

  So again, to me that, when I would read that, I'd be like, oh, like you had what it takes. Like you could win this stuff.

• 2:15:28Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:15:29Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 2:15:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was some and that one's a little different, like just being super honest. That's not a hard track to drive. Um, but I, um, you know, you still have to do the race and the race is hard. It's weird. Like it's actually harder in the straightaways than in the corners because the car is a little lighter and you're packed up in a huge pack of cars. And so there's a lot of movement and floating around and, and sort of like jockeying for position and like setting things up for the long run and meaning like long-term, meaning how am I going to make my way up there? Like, how do I chess match this? So, uh, and there's just a lot, lot, you're really, really tight with all the other cars. So it's constantly on edge.

• 2:16:07Jocko Willink?

  You led for five laps there in that race. You got it eighth place, which is the highest history, highest placing for a woman in history. And you're one of only 14 drivers to lead both in Indy and Daytona laps. You led laps for

• 2:16:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's my favorite stat. The Indy 500, Daytona 500 leading because there's just, it's a genderless stat and there's not many, you know, and there's been a bunch that have done both.

• 2:16:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, 14.

• 2:16:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:32Jocko Willink?

  That's not really a bunch.

• 2:16:33Speaker 02

  Well, only 14 that have that led both. So, you know, in a hundred years. So, or well, I guess, how many, how old is NASCAR's 50, 50 some years?

• 2:16:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, something like that. But it seemed like after the Daytona 500, again, it's kind of a rough season after that.

• 2:16:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. My first year in cup.

• 2:16:52Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. I, I, yeah, the Daytona 500 was definitely the started off really well with the pole. I was third going into the last lap. And so I, I thought maybe I could win too. I was like, all right, how am I going to set this up? And then Dale Jr. pulls out and everybody goes with him because everybody loves Dale Jr. It's all on super speedways. It's what's behind you. That's more important than what's in front of you. So in Indy car, you wanted to catch a, catch a toe. You wanted to catch, that's what you call it. And so what's in front of you matters. What's behind you doesn't matter. But in stock cars, you need people behind you to push you. What's in front of you matters a little bit, but we don't have, there's no wings in stock cars. So you're not really, it's not really as important. You need people behind you, pushing you with like their air and energy, like their inertia of power will, um, it, it like pushes

• 2:17:37Speaker 02

  the air actually. So it's a, it's a, you want people behind you. That's what creates a lot of speed. And so when someone like me pulls out, my first full-time year in cup and I don't have any friends.

• 2:17:49Jocko Willink?

  The wine and cheese girls.

• 2:17:50Speaker 02

  Wine and cheese girl, Danica is going to win the first Daytona 500 and first season she races full-time? No, ma'am. Uh, and so Dale Jr. pulls out and everybody's like, let's go. So anyway, I finished.

• 2:18:02Jocko Willink?

  Cold-blooded, kind of cold-blooded. Uh, 2014.

• 2:18:07Jocko Willink?

  You're you're with the Stewart. I forgot to mention this. You're with Stewart Haas Racing now. Daytona 500 crash that year.

• 2:18:17Jocko Willink?

  22.

• 2:18:17Speaker 02

  Easy to crash at Daytona.

• 2:18:20Jocko Willink?

  Certainly seems like it. Uh, sixth at Atlanta Motor Speedway. Finished 28th overall in points. How many? How many drivers are there total?

• 2:18:28Speaker 02

  Forty three.

• 2:18:28Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so now you're 28th overall in points. 2015. Get 21st at the Daytona 500. Seventh at the STP 500, ninth at Food City 500. You get fined. I enjoyed this. You get fined $50,000 and penalized 25 points for what's called intentional retaliatory crash.

• 2:18:50Speaker 02

  So this was a very exciting weekend where uh, there was, it was like later in the year and it was during the chase and this one driver, he's a total ass.

• 2:19:00Jocko Willink?

  The chase is when you got like people that are and gonna make it to win the series.

• 2:19:05Speaker 02

  So many races in the season that they had to create some excitement for the fans and some reason to watch at some point and a reset. So they do. So they started doing stages during the race where there'd be a, there'd be a caution and a, and a, and a semi checkered flag of like results. So the top 10 would get points based on their, the top 10 would get points. Um, and, and, and then it'd be a caution and a restart and from where you were. And then at the, and then as the season went on, the last 10 races of the season is called the chase. Chase for the cup. And so, um, the top 16 in points would make it into the chase. And so each weekend there would be four eliminated until there was only four left at the last race.

• 2:19:45Speaker 02

  And then whoever beat who wins. So it's very Super Bowl like where it's like the last game is the only thing that matters. The last race, of course, you had to get there. So it's not totally like that, but you know, you, um, you had to, you had to beat everybody else in the chase. So even if you finish 20th. In the race, at the last race, but everyone in the other three in the top four of the championship were behind you, you still won. So anyway, so the chase came along and so it was during a chase race and um and Legano has pissed off so many people, including me. He is, like I remember running like 10th at um you know Charlotte Motor Speedway, having a good race and it's like halfway through the race and he just freaking dumps me. He just crashes me going into turn three and um I

• 2:20:26Speaker 02

  mean I absolutely went over to his bus after it was all over with and I laid the F into him and um and I'd probably cashed some checks, my ass couldn't, my cashed some, what was it? You wrote some checks. Wrote some checks, my ass couldn't cash, thank you. Um and that would be like, I am gonna make sure that you don't win this championship and I will take you out and like I was terrible at taking people out. I would take myself out, which is where the story's going. And um so uh I didn't have a lot of practice in open wheel cars. It's been since go-karting since I worked on that. And uh and so this driver uh this driver crashed me and I hit the wall and I came back out and I was

• 2:21:08Speaker 02

  lapsed down and um and I tried to crash him. I also crashed myself again and him a little bit. Um but uh this was, I I it was not for position. So based on, so that was what I got penalized for, but then also the reason, the big reason is because some, it was um Matt Kenseth um had been taken out by Joey Legano the week before and he was leading and he was gonna make it through the next round of the chase, but he got taken out and and and Joey didn't even need to win, he just did it. And so um so so the next time at Martins, next week at Martinsville, he goes out there and something happens to Kenseth and he's like now a lap down. And so he goes out there and the the green flag is coming out and Legano's in the top three somewhere. And he starts the race and Kenseth

• 2:21:54Speaker 02

  Absolutely annihilates him and he completely in the wall like they're both done. And, um, and so Kenseth took Logano out, but it wasn't for position. And so, so this was like a very, very aggressive retaliation. Um, at the very front of the grid for very big, big points for, for moving through in the cha- in the chase. And so, um, so NASCAR felt like they had to do something. And so since I crashed someone for not a position, based on the fact that something so much more dramatic happened, like my incident was like nothing, like that was, we were for, we were for nothing points and nothing positions. Um, but, but at the front of the grid, Matt and Joey. And so they had, they find, they like had like a hundred thousand dollar fine. I think, I don't remember, was it seventy thousand dollar fine or whatever, sixty or whatever in points.

• 2:22:39Speaker 02

  And, but anyway, so I got a huge penalty. Um, and, uh, yeah, I remember getting that call and being told what my penalty was. And I was really sad about it. I'm like, this sucks. And I had probation and I was on probation.

• 2:22:52Jocko Willink?

  Oh geez. I watched it. It looked very intentional.

• 2:22:55Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:22:56Jocko Willink?

  I was like, oh, that's, she's definitely making that happen.

• 2:22:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:00Jocko Willink?

  Uh, you finished that year, 2015, 24th overall in points. 2016 Daytona 500 crashed, didn't finish. Auto Club 400, you crashed. You also got a $20,000 fine for gesturing.

• 2:23:16Speaker 02

  I'm sure I called someone number one. Um, I believe that was probably when, I bet that was when, um, uh, Casey Kane dumped me on the front straightaway, maybe.

• 2:23:28Jocko Willink?

  And you were.

• 2:23:29Speaker 02

  And I, oh, I almost flipped, like he, the, you're going really fast at, at, um, Auto Club Speedway. It's a two mile track, so you're going probably 220. And, um, he came down the front straightaway and came on my right side door and got so close that he turned me in the middle of the straightaway. And it's not even straight. It's actually at a bit of a, it's a, it's a slight turn. Um, and, uh, I call it a dog leg. Um, and so it's a very long sweeping dog leg. And so it turned me up into the wall, boom, hit. And yeah, so I'm sure, I mean, yeah, I've, it was either that or there was another time where I flipped someone off for sure, though. I definitely, like, it was at Bristol, I think somebody took me out.

• 2:24:11Speaker 02

  And then I went up to the track and I, I gave him the finger.

• 2:24:15Jocko Willink?

  You were not happy.

• 2:24:16Speaker 02

  I gave him the number one. We've all done it.

• 2:24:20Jocko Willink?

  Talladega, you crashed. 11th at Charlotte. This year, 2016, you finished 24th overall in points. 2017, 4th at Advanced Auto Parts Exhibition Race. 33rd in Daytona, you crashed, but you got 33rd, 10th at Dover, 28th overall that year. And 2017, you announced that you're gonna, you're planning to retire from full-time racing.

• 2:24:44Speaker 02

  I did at the very last race, so the whole season went by. And what, what happened in 17 was that I had this new sponsor, starting in 16. I didn't want to give them credit because then they get attention and they, they literally just pulled out the next year. And it was before the second year started and it was a three-year contract. And, um, and it was some bullshit reason and they said, and it really didn't make sense and didn't have to do with me. It was something about like something that other, of other sponsors on the car. Anyway, it was just, they just didn't want to do it. And it was a lot of money. It was like, I don't know, they were paying $30 million a year, 20 or 30. And, um, and so, yeah, so I didn't know what was gonna happen when the season started. Like, were they gonna tell me I couldn't race? What was gonna happen?

• 2:25:25Speaker 02

  But, you know, I had more races sold on my car for the next season because I still had other sponsors. They did most of the races, but not all of them. So I had a bunch of other races still sold for that year and the next year. Cause this is like a three-year chunk contract. Um, and so the plan is set. And, um, then other cars on the team had. There was other cars on the team that didn't have as many races sold for the current year we were in, let alone the next year. And I'm like, okay. So anyway, I go race and, um, some other sponsors step up a little bit. And, um, and, uh, and then they announced late in the season that I'm not gonna come back to the team. And I just had to go through this process of like, what do I want to do? What do I really want? And at first, when this happened, I got this like inertia of like, I don't want to be done. I'm not ready.

• 2:26:08Speaker 02

  Like, holy crap, I was not ready for this. Um, and then I, as the year went on, I just kind of started falling out of love with the atmosphere and what it took. And it was just so grueling and cutthroat. And you just had to be such a dick to be a good, to, to make, to do what you needed to do, whether that was on track or off track even with just politicking. And it was just, and I felt like, man, no matter what I did. I just didn't feel like I was getting what I needed and even lobbying didn't help and I don't, I just didn't love the, the, the team manager for the team I was driving for, I just don't like him and I don't think he liked me and I don't think he believed in me. Like the first year I was in Cup, I never got a new car. I had a full, full, full budget. I have paid for other cars in my teams

• 2:26:52Speaker 02

  for my whole career. And I never-

• 2:26:55Jocko Willink?

  You get, you attract massive sponsorships.

• 2:26:57Speaker 02

  Exactly. And, and they, and, and, um, and, uh, and so I, I didn't get any new cars the first year I drove because apparently word was like, oh, well, you're just gonna crash them anyway. And so then I finally get a new car the second year at like, wow, 10 races in or something like that. And we go to Kansas and, uh, somebody is a total dick to me. And so I go to try and take him out and I take my cell phone with my first new car. And I don't like that. I know that I'm probably like justifying this idea, but, but, uh, but I, I got an-

• 2:27:32Jocko Willink?

  How much does a NASCAR cost?

• 2:27:34Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't know.

• 2:27:35Jocko Willink?

  Like when you trash with that car?

• 2:27:36Speaker 02

  I don't know. Hundreds of thousands I'm sure. Um, a hundred thousand, I don't know. Um, and-

• 2:27:42Jocko Willink?

  It has to be more than a hundred thousand.

• 2:27:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably. Yeah. I mean, I can buy a regular car for a hundred thousand, so.

• 2:27:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, check. Alright, so you trash it. So you're never getting new cars.

• 2:27:50Speaker 02

  Well, I finally, I get one at, I get one, um, I, I can't remember exactly the order again, but I'm not sure if it was the very first one, my, the second one I got. But anyway, I go to the track, this track and I finally get a new car and I go and I'm, I end up finishing seventh. I qualify in the top 10. I pass Tony Stewart and Dale Jr. in three and four in the same end of the, and I, I take third place at one point in the race. And like, I'm like, I wish these guys would have given me some more new cars. And so there was a whole big thing with my, my crew chief and I was not, didn't think he was putting in the effort. And as the season went on, he seemed to be trying harder. And I was like, look, I'm happy. But in the end, they took him away from me and, um, and they gave me a worse crew chief and, um, one that another driver

• 2:28:35Speaker 02

  didn't want. And, uh, and so he just was never on my side. And, um, and I just didn't like him. I think he was a chauvinist. I think he was just a, I think he was just, I was just a good old boy chauvinist that just didn't like me personally. And, uh, and so it made my life at that team not great. And I- I just didn't feel like I was getting what I needed to show what I could do. And the only, what I really loved, and so going back to the, all full circle, back to the very beginning and when I was racing go-karts. I loved the setting a goal and achieving it and this process. And so if I didn't feel like I had the opportunity to finish better, to have a better season, to accomplish more. For me, there was no more process to have. Like, I wanted the delta. What did I do last year and what did I do this year? I wanted to get better. I wanted to finish better.

• 2:29:21Speaker 02

  And I was not going to be able to drive for a better team than what I was at, um, because they were a pretty good team. And, um, and I, I, I then was going to also have to take a big pay cut. And, and I just didn't, I just was like, I'm not attached. I, I'm not afraid of change. It doesn't mean it's not scary. It's just like, I'm willing to do it. And so I just hit a point where I just wasn't happy anymore and I let, I let the universe sort of take over. And I was like, look, if a sponsor comes along and they're wanting to do it and there's a team, like, I will race. But if there isn't, then we're just gonna, I'm just gonna let the universe handle this one. And, um, no sponsor came through and I ended up being like, alright, I'm done. Nevermind, my dad came to North Carolina and I remember talking to him and telling him like, um,

• 2:30:06Speaker 02

  you know, dad, like, I don't really love racing. And I actually like never really loved actually racing. Like, I loved aspects of racing and I've always felt like so hard for me to say that for the first times. Um, first times meaning like to my dad, to, in public. Uh, but it wasn't my passion. Like, I think a passion is something you do no matter what. And I don't do it now. Like, I don't go play racing. I don't go like, hey, I don't, you know, people have passions and they do them all the time. And even if it's just for fun. Right. And I just don't. And, uh, I loved aspects of it and now I plug those aspects into other things in my life. And I'm plenty busy, trust me, but they're just doing other things. And it wasn't racing. Racing was just the medium.

• 2:30:48Speaker 02

  And so, uh, so I was just ready. I was just like, all right, it's time to be done. And, um, yeah. So then I, I announced at the end of 2017 at the last race that I was going to be done racing full time. And that I was going to finish my career doing the, um, doing the Indy 500 and the Daytona 500. So the Daytona 500 is February. It's called the Danica double because there's something in racing called the double. And the double was where you do the Indy 500 and the Coke 600 the same day. Indy 500 is midday and Coke 600 is at night. So that's 1100 miles. And I actually wanted to do it. I thought it'd be kind of cool and interesting. And so the first year I didn't, because it was kind of the first year in NASCAR. And then the second year I was like, all right, let's try and do this.

• 2:31:30Speaker 02

  And this jerk of a, of a team manager that I talked about, he told me if you, if you do this, everybody's going to question your, how serious you are. And I was like, okay. So I didn't do it. And, um, and so I, uh, and, and so I, I, I did what, what I called the Danica double, which is just because it represented, you know, the bulk of my career being in these two sports.

• 2:31:50Jocko Willink?

  Are those the only two races you raced in 2018?

• 2:31:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:31:55Jocko Willink?

  And your sponsors or people were just like, yo, for this hype situation we're in.

• 2:32:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. So for, for the first time, the sponsors were actually mine. So I went and got the sponsors and negotiated with the teams.

• 2:32:06Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 2:32:07Speaker 02

  So, um, so I, I had, I had GoDaddy came back on board. They were off my car for a few years, but they came back on for these last two. And, um, and some others and we, we went racing.

• 2:32:17Jocko Willink?

  You made it happen. And

• 2:32:21Jocko Willink?

  the Daytona 500, you crashed.

• 2:32:23Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. I crashed both of them.

• 2:32:25Jocko Willink?

  Those races. You want to talk about the universe like, yeah, you're, yeah, you're done.

• 2:32:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. You're really done. You're done early.

• 2:32:34Jocko Willink?

  That's like a bummer.

• 2:32:35Speaker 02

  You're done early.

• 2:32:36Jocko Willink?

  You know, it is what it is.

• 2:32:38Speaker 02

  Sorry. Let me, let me crack it. Let me crack a go.

• 2:32:40Jocko Willink?

  All good. All right. So in the meantime, you wrote another book. The other book is called Pretty Intense. This is really good play on words. A pretty intense thing. And the book really is about, well, the subtitle is the 90 day mind, body and food plan that will absolutely change your life. By you.

• 2:33:01Jocko Willink?

  A book, clearly it's broken into three different sections. And this book is kind of like how you live your life. And actually, we met at the CrossFit Games.

• 2:33:08Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 2:33:09Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 2:33:10Speaker 02

  This is when I was in the throes of CrossFit.

• 2:33:12Jocko Willink?

  The throes of CrossFit. Um, and

• 2:33:16Jocko Willink?

  Just cool information, like you start off in the mind part, I'm gonna read a couple of rules, three rules of happiness. Rule number one, flow in the right direction. Remember, your thoughts are extremely powerful. You talk about that, be light, be positive, keep your mind river flowing in the right direction. Rule number two, start by assuming the best. I try to see the good in people and move through my day with the expectation that pretty much everyone is doing their best. It's a very positive attitude. Rule number three, do the next healthy thing. You don't have to master these skills all at once. You don't have to completely change your outlook on life in an instant. Just do the next healthy thing. That's what I like about that. There's this thing they say, I didn't really have this attitude, but going through SEAL training, it was like, just make it to the next evolution. Like, just make it, like, whatever you're

• 2:34:00Jocko Willink?

  doing right now, surf torture, pushups, freaking squats, boat carries, log PT, whatever you're doing, just make it, just do this thing. So this attitude of like, just do the next, don't think about you gotta eat healthy for the next year, Echo Charles. Yes, sir. Just think about the next healthy thing.

• 2:34:15Speaker 02

  The next meal. What are you gonna have for dinner?

• 2:34:16Jocko Willink?

  And there you go. So, pretty cool. And you've got to look, I'm like, gonna completely summarize some of these sections, not gonna read them all, but that's the type of thing that you talk about in this book, kind of what your mindset is.

• 2:34:30Speaker 02

  Cause the mind sets up the rest.

• 2:34:31Jocko Willink?

  Yep, yep.

• 2:34:33Speaker 02

  So it's the first part.

• 2:34:34Jocko Willink?

  You go into this here, when we get into the body part, you say, a decade ago, I was exercising a lot, but I wasn't particularly happy with the way I looked. I was running thirty to forty-five minutes every single day and doing yoga a couple of times a week, but I didn't look like I spent a ton of time working out. Had a small frame, but no muscle definition. I was ninety-five pounds and didn't look that great. Now I weigh a hundred and ten pounds and I look far fitter. Back then, I never really thought about the level of intensity I was putting into my workouts. It was more about how long I went or how far I could go without stopping. Nowadays, the only running I do is short, fast, challenging, all-out intervals, followed by a short walk recovery, repeated fifteen to twenty times. Fast forward a little bit, high intensity interval training or HIIT is the primary force

• 2:35:17Jocko Willink?

  behind my workouts nowadays. HIIT refers to a simply to a workout in which you go hard at maximum intensity for a certain amount of time, then back off for recovery period before going at it hard again. You can do HIIT workouts with weights on a bike, in a pool, on a treadmill, basically whatever your favorite type of exercise you can modify to create an interval approach. And you gotta look, again, this is like good information for people. You go into the, the, the good, positive things about HIIT. HIIT releases your bliss compound, which is like

• 2:35:49Speaker 02

  dopamine. Yeah, and endorphins.

• 2:35:51Jocko Willink?

  Yep. HIIT burns fat faster. HIIT builds endurance. You've got definitions around all this stuff. HIIT protects you from diabetes. HIIT builds muscle and keeps you young. HIIT gets the job done faster. HIIT makes you happier and less stressed. And then HIIT is just more fun, which is only your opinion, but I have to agree with it. Um, you really have that classic, uh, what is it? The classic story arc of where you were working out before and you've always been kind of into working out, but what you were doing was like long runs, long treadmill, long exercise bike. And what's interesting about you is like you said earlier, you were in magazines and being photographed this whole time.

• 2:36:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:34Jocko Willink?

  And you actually put in this book, you've got pictures of what you looked like when you exercised like that.

• 2:36:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:36:39Jocko Willink?

  Which by the way, you were like 22 years old.

• 2:36:42Speaker 02

  19.

• 2:36:42Jocko Willink?

  19 years old, 20 years old.

• 2:36:44Speaker 02

  Everybody looks, looks all right at 19.

• 2:36:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, right. And yet.

• 2:36:47Speaker 02

  Little baby.

• 2:36:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And yet you've got pictures of you now.

• 2:36:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:50Jocko Willink?

  And I think most people would be of the opinion that you look fitter and better now than you did then. It's not like you looked bad back then, but you just fitter. And so you went from this trajectory of people training from. Hey, I'm just gonna run and that's kind of a workout. And if I sweated a lot, then I worked out hard. You got into the mode of like using resistance, so lifting weights of some kind and then going hard. Doing the high intensity training.

• 2:37:14Speaker 02

  Making it difficult. Like, don't just say you went.

• 2:37:17Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 2:37:18Speaker 02

  But like, show you went because you're dead.

• 2:37:20Jocko Willink?

  Huge difference for people to think about if you're a person that's exercising and you're not kind of seeing the results you would hope for. There's a really strong possibility that you're not exercising with the kind of intensity that you need.

• 2:37:36Speaker 02

  Yes. At the end of the day, if you aren't exercising with intensity and if you aren't weight training. So, weights will always shape the body, right? Like, you can change the size of your body with cardio and movement like, but you're not going to change the shape of your body. And when you're looking at a picture, it's one thing in person. There's a little bit more, you can see in 3D what's going on. But if you're looking at a picture, what translates is shape. And so, muscles are going to give you shape. And they also translate to leanness because, yes, you do need some level of leanness to be able to see muscle. But, uh, but they give you shape. And, um, and so, the only, I'd say the only thing I'd add to this book, because this book I wrote in 2017, 16, um, 16, 17.

• 2:38:20Speaker 02

  And, um, and it came out the beginning of 2018, uh, is that, you know, you can't go hard all the time. And I did not know that. And so, when, you can only pull a lever so many times. And the body is incredible at dealing with the things that we put it through, you know? I'm sure you know very well.

• 2:38:40Jocko Willink?

  Indeed.

• 2:38:41Speaker 02

  Um, but it does take a toll. So, I've learned since then how important, because I went through a pretty big health journey in the last few years of, um, well, we can get in as much or as little as you want, but it really took my body away from that. And I gained weight and I looked different and I was like, what's going on?

• 2:39:01Jocko Willink?

  So, what was going on?

• 2:39:02Speaker 02

  Uh, I, one of the things is I did too much. I worked out too much. I, I would work out, sometimes I'd go to CrossFit for like two hours. I'd do a class and I'd be like, hey, what do you want to do? What else do you want to do? Would you do a whole nother workout? Um, so, so much intensity, which is cortisol and, which spikes your cortisol. And then cortisol will dump the blood sugar, uh, from your. Muscles into your bloodstream and so then you get into more of like storage because you're you're using what's readily available instead of what's stored and because it's getting dumped into the bloodstream and so there's just so much down trickle down effect that happens when you just are only doing hard stuff all the time also recovery. So I would just like I didn't know what it was like to not be sore, you know, I'd just always be like taxed and so then your body's in a state of inflammation. So that's hard

• 2:39:47Speaker 02

  on the hormones. Then my diet was not ideal, meaning I was super good at it, like I was very disciplined, but there's only so long that you can have a certain way of eating and restrict yourself. So I ate paleo forever and and so I didn't eat beans and grains and you know carbohydrates really other than starches like sweet potatoes and some squashes and stuff and berries and fruit but but I was probably too restrictive in that way and just like not nourishing the body and and giving it what it needed totally. And then I had breast implants. So I that was one of the vanity things that I did for myself as a girl back when I was like 32 and so 33 and I had them for seven and a

• 2:40:30Speaker 02

  half years and I got them out a year and a half ago. And so those things are toxic. So those things did had I had horrible gut health. I started like my hair wasn't growing anymore. When you can see in some of these pictures, I used to have super long hair. It just wasn't healthy anymore. So I cut it short because I was like, well, maybe it's just age and so it's finally growing out a little bit, but it's but my hair wasn't as healthy, gut issues, I had super high heavy metals, some mold, all my hormones were tanked, all of them, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, everything. My cortisol spike was in the middle of the night instead of in the morning when I woke up. So it was kind of flip flopped. So I my adrenal function was totally totally screwed up. And so I

• 2:41:15Speaker 02

  just it took a couple of years to get things back and like it's honestly finally the first time that I'm back where I was like back then when those photos back in 2017. Like it's been a long journey.

• 2:41:26Jocko Willink?

  Damn, that sounds like a rough one.

• 2:41:28Speaker 02

  Six, seven years of like. trailing off like gaining weight not knowing why it's like it's one thing when you gain like a few pounds you're like oh okay but then like I mean I probably went honestly from like a hundred and ten pounds I mean I weighed like a hundred and seven in these photos like that's and so but from a hundred and ten pounds to probably like one twenty five which is a lot on someone like me and to not have any way to fix it like I couldn't eat less I couldn't work out more nothing worked and my body was just in a total shutdown mode of like we we're we're we're we're not we're not we're not showing up for you anymore and it took a lot of time like loving loving not loving myself metaphorically but like being kind to my body like doing a workout

• 2:42:11Speaker 02

  and then having a recovery day I used to take no rest days like it's in the book to not take a rest day because I said they happen naturally and they did they did happen naturally for me but like you can't

• 2:42:21Jocko Willink?

  red flags over here for Jaco because that's the same thing I say I'm like oh you're gonna get rest days you know like when you travel or when the water heater breaks

• 2:42:30Speaker 02

  yeah when you get sick that one day or like you know you're just like you have to and that's what I would do I the rest days they were a little bit more built in for me because I would go race every weekend so like you know so they were a little bit more built in but I just is like take no rest days I didn't do cheat meals either because I'm like what I don't need that food I don't crave a pizza I don't crave feeling bad because that's exactly what it made me do but one of the problems was is that my gut health was so bad that if I did eat anything off the menu it really did make me feel bad now I know I don't have that anymore and I can eat whatever I want and I don't choose to eat whatever I want but if I do I used to literally take a bite of something that was not on the paleo menu and it would make me have I would

• 2:43:13Speaker 02

  be bloated and uncomfortable now it doesn't do that to me so it's like nice to be able to just like function and just be able to oh yeah I'll have a bite oh that's nice okay fine

• 2:43:21Jocko Willink?

  so you so what did what changes you make diet wise

• 2:43:24Speaker 02

  um I just went away from uh I just started eating like complex carbohydrates again so I started eating rice and oatmeal and um things like that I still still don't eat gluten on purpose but if I do it's okay it doesn't bother me I just it's not in my favorite foods anyway so I don't love pasta it's not my favorite and I mean pizza I don't really care I don't really get that that often I mean I like it it's fine but it's pretty not very nutritious so

• 2:43:53Jocko Willink?

  and then what's the rest protocol looking like

• 2:43:55Speaker 02

  I literally only lift three days a week. That's it. And I walk other than that. That's it. I lift three days a week.

• 2:44:03Jocko Willink?

  Echo Charles is a huge proponent of rest and rest days.

• 2:44:08Speaker 02

  Where were you when I needed that info?

• 2:44:10Speaker 01

  You know, I was around.

• 2:44:11Speaker 02

  Well, look at you. You're jacked. So clearly you know what to do.

• 2:44:15Speaker 01

  Resting does work.

• 2:44:16Jocko Willink?

  Resting does work. Look at Echo's. He rests those biceps.

• 2:44:20Speaker 02

  I mean, look at you're wearing your muscles on the outside of your skin. They're so big.

• 2:44:23Speaker 01

  That's the byproduct right there.

• 2:44:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Did you learn the hard way?

• 2:44:28Speaker 01

  No, I was.

• 2:44:30Speaker 02

  Fine then.

• 2:44:31Speaker 01

  I always had rest programmed into the thing. I was a personal trainer at one point in my long life.

• 2:44:36Speaker 02

  So you didn't have, so you, you did it on faith or you did it on evidence of your results or like, cause if you love fitness, it's so easy to take fitness to the extreme.

• 2:44:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And still we'll do, I'll do that too. Sometimes still where, you know, I did do the no rest days and I feel good or whatever. Until the day comes, you're like, wait, I had like a few days in a row where my workouts are like shitty. Then I'm like, oh wait, I'm not gonna, and then I just won't. But no, the, the programming that I kind of, you know, there's all kinds of approaches to exercise, even just resistance training alone. There's so many protocols and they all work if you do them correctly. So the one that I kind of stumbled upon early on had rest programmed in. And they explained really specifically why you need to rest this much at this time and stuff like that.

• 2:45:19Speaker 02

  So you were convinced. The literature convinced you.

• 2:45:21Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. And the program was so freaking effective at the, at the time. It still is by the way, but um it.

• 2:45:26Jocko Willink?

  Is this big beyond belief?

• 2:45:28Speaker 01

  Big beyond belief. Leo Costa Jr. Hell yeah. But it's a, you know, it's one of those deals where it's like, hey, these three protocols right here, like the, the exercise, what you do in the gym, what you do out and the two outside of the gym, which is what you eat and then how much you rest. Like you have to do all three, otherwise the whole table collapses.

• 2:45:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Protein is also very important. I forgot. I took a little detour with the protein. Um, I watched what the health at the end of 2017 and I was like, oh shoot, maybe I shouldn't eat meat anymore. And then I went through this, I went through this mental game of like, maybe protein is like propaganda and maybe we don't. And so then I stopped eating meat meat. I'd only eat fish at night pretty much. And I was eating like substitutes of things and protein powders and pea protein, which pea protein is laden with heavy metals because it's in plants. And so, um, and so I had fake eggs, you know? And I was like, it was, and so, so then I, so that's another thing. So then I wasn't eating protein. Years, years.

• 2:46:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I had a friend and.

• 2:46:25Jocko Willink?

  You know, a friend that I had lives on the lives on the other coast and I'd see him occasionally and his wife was like vegan and so he became vegan and I saw him and he looks like terrible.

• 2:46:39Speaker 02

  He probably like gone.

• 2:46:39Jocko Willink?

  I felt horrible when I saw him. I thought he he said he he came to my house. He's like, I have to talk to you. And I was like, oh, God, he's got like cancer or something.

• 2:46:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:46:47Jocko Willink?

  And it turns out that him and his wife were having some issues. And that's what he wanted to talk to me about. But when he said that to me, I'm like, oh, this is like, I'm about to lose my friend. He's and it wasn't that at all, you know, he was, he he was going through a hard time with his wife, but we I was like, dude, we're going out like, let's go fill me in. And he starts talking to me and he's like, well, you know, I've been vegan. I was like, bro, we're going to get steak like right now. We're going to get steak right now. I go, you look just like terrible, bro. This is not good. And sure enough, it's like one of those things like you do that to your body. You take that protein away.

• 2:47:20Speaker 02

  Totally. I mean, so look at all the stack of this. Too much working out, not enough protein, stress. I was in a stressful relationship. I had retired from racing like there was just so many things crashing down that my body went bye bye. So um, so rest is something that I have, I would have to add as an amendment to this because and just like, you know, having some variation, but but basically lift weights, have rest, eat enough protein and and and be in a capital calorie deficit if you want to lose weight. Like, that's it. This really, it's not gonna, it's it's what it is. I also had someone try and convince me the calories didn't matter if your blood sugar sugar didn't spike because that's the mechanism. And I'm like, so you know, I I like try everything.

• 2:48:03Speaker 02

  But I I tried everything in the health department. Like I did peptides, I did Ebu treatments, which I really loved, just like a blood dialysis. I did um, I did uh, NAD. I don't know if you've tried NAD. I did a bunch of NAD. Uh, I did, I did enemas. I did coffee enemas as well as like suppositories. I did, um, I mean, I tried.

• 2:48:30Speaker 02

  Everything, everything, including like taking forty pills a day and expensive urine, basically is what that makes. Elimination diets from foods based on what my food sensitivity test showed. I went to the, I did lymphatic massages, I did, you name it, like I did. It was exhausting and it took so much time and it took so much money and I know that I don't, I have so many more resources in that department and I know so many more people. But what I said the whole time, everybody was like, you're just also getting older. I'm forty-one now. And, and they were like, you know, you're thirty-nine or you're forty and like, that's just, you know, what happens. And you know what I said? Fuck that. That's not how it's going down.

• 2:49:13Speaker 02

  There is no reason why I can't look the way I wanna look, feel the way I wanna feel. I'm not buying it. I'm living till a hundred and twenty and this is not how it's going for me. And guess what? I look like I did when I was in this book.

• 2:49:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you do. Freaking outstanding. Um, now, you get, if this book comes out, what else? You've got all kinds of crazy things going on right now. You got a, a wine company. You make wine.

• 2:49:38Speaker 02

  I do, I do. I love wine. I went to, I went to Napa Valley back in two thousand and six on a vacation and I was standing, so the trip started off with going to French Laundry, which is a super fancy restaurant with the tasting menu and...

• 2:49:53Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, that's where Gavin Newsom went.

• 2:49:55Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 2:49:56Jocko Willink?

  During the lockdown.

• 2:49:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz that's...

• 2:49:58Jocko Willink?

  He got in a lot of trouble for that one.

• 2:49:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. He didn't go to a restaurant, he went to the best restaurant and he was maskless and, you know, you gotta practice what you preach, man, especially, I mean, what do you expect when you go to a public place and you're not following the rules? Like, you know what that shows? Is that he's never following the rules, right? Cuz when someone like gets caught in a situation where you're like, duh, like, that means they're doing it all the time and they're not getting caught, so they just think they're not gonna get caught. It's like when people cheat, you know, and they get away with it and they're like, oh, then they just start getting sloppy cuz they think they're never gonna get caught. And then you're like, dude, what, how did you, how many more women? You know? I mean, girls can do it too, I'm not just, but, so I went to French Laundry for dinner and then there was a wine tasting set up for ten AM the next day and I thought, oh my God, how am I gonna do that?

• 2:50:44Speaker 02

  Like, I'll be just so... Not feeling good from dinner because it's going to be 20 courses and so much wine and and I didn't and it's a much more sophisticated experience than that. So go up to the, it was Quintessa, went up to the top of this property on like one of their trucks and got out and there's white rose petals leading out to the end of the knoll with a picnic table and quiches and fruit and wine and everything and I'm swirling my white wine at 10 a.m. which is 100% acceptable in Napa Valley. And I just remember standing there going, man, it'd be really cool to have something like this someday. And I thought to myself, but I don't have $50 million yet. And so I was like, I thought it cost $50 million. I just made up a number and I thought, and I

• 2:51:28Speaker 02

  also knew was yet was able to be put on the end of this because I'm again only like 25. And and so that was the seed.

• 2:51:36Jocko Willink?

  You're Danica Median to that timeframe.

• 2:51:38Speaker 02

  It was, I was in it. It was in it. It was 2006. So it was just, you know, a year and a half after it got really going. And I thought that it was just an idea. So this is a total example of thoughts become things and how important it is to, you know, think about what, you know, what's going through your head and know what you want. Like and think about what you actually want because this was a seed idea. Literally said in my own inner monologue, this would be really cool. And then, and then two years later, went back out there on a trip and the winemaker at Quintessa was now working for some other people. He's like, oh, you come back to the valley, let me know. So I did and went up and visited him and also went and saw some properties like, oh, I wonder what it's like. How expensive is it? No, let's check out Sonoma. Maybe that's

• 2:52:21Speaker 02

  the right area. And I'm like, nope, Napa Valley. Came back over, found something I liked and ended up buying it at the beginning of 2009 and started working on planting the vineyard and it started from dirt. And so it starts from scratch. So I didn't need $50 million, but I did need some millions. And, you know, you start by buying the property and then you planted and I finally had a bottle of wine for sale in 2017. So, you know, it's a long game process and I'm still in the hole and I'm still, I still have to put money into it, but it's totally a passion project and I, and I, and really all of my companies outside of racing. So what I loved and like so really revered and like respected about what I was able to do in racing was that

• 2:53:04Speaker 02

  just being out there was enough for people. Like just being out there was inspiring to people and it was never enough for me. I don't know. I'm curious actually. When you hear, when you hear athletes saying things like, I'm just honored to be here. Do, does that resonate with you? Like, oh, I'm at the Olympics. I'm just, just honored to be here.

• 2:53:24Jocko Willink?

  Meaning, I'm not here to win. I'm just happy to be.

• 2:53:27Speaker 02

  That's what it sounds like to me.

• 2:53:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it doesn't really resonate.

• 2:53:30Speaker 02

  It doesn't resonate at all with me, like.

• 2:53:32Jocko Willink?

  The only way it would resonate resonate with me is like, um, if I was making sure I was mentally staying humble. And being like, hey, I'm, I'm, it's an honor to be here representing the United States of America. And I'm gonna pour everything I can into this competition.

• 2:53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:53:50Jocko Willink?

  Something like that, I could understand.

• 2:53:52Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 2:53:52Jocko Willink?

  But just being like, yo, I'm just happy.

• 2:53:57Speaker 02

  And maybe it's my own like triggers, seeing it as like, cause I have so much of like wanting more. And look, clearly it didn't result in me winning all the time. I didn't win all the time, but I had that level of drive. And so I don't know if I would have accomplished what I, what I did if I didn't have the level of drive that I couldn't even relate to someone. Even if they were just putting sort of like a nice humble answer together, like I was so much more like, I have to go out there and I have to do it. Uh, so I wonder would I had it, would I have had a worse, a less successful career? If I wouldn't have thought the way I thought, I'm not sure. Would it have been better? I don't know. I can't do it over. So, um, so I, I just can't relate to that. And so everything I want to do, I want to do at a really high level and, um,

• 2:54:39Speaker 02

  and so I, uh, so anyway, so I start this winery and I do, do it with the best. I'm doing it with, um, you know, the wine pick makers picking the property and the, you know, the winemakers picking the grapes and the farmers and so make great wine.

• 2:54:52Jocko Willink?

  And it's doing okay?

• 2:54:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it still costs money and but it makes money, but you know, it's like things also cost money. And then you have to, it takes money to make money. So then it's like, open up the tasting room in Calistoga. And then we need this new equipment and then, oh, a fire came through your property. Now that's expensive too. And so.

• 2:55:11Jocko Willink?

  How often do you go up there and just chill?

• 2:55:13Speaker 02

  Um, I don't, not that often. Um, I go up there a couple of times a year, but I also do a lot of events outside of it. So, um, but yeah, it was just, I mean, it's just, it's just thoughts become things. And it was just this idea of like, and that's why the name of the wine is called Somnium, which is a Latin word that just means to dream.

• 2:55:31Jocko Willink?

  Do you ever have ideas? Well, I shouldn't ask you this question. I should just say, sometimes I have ideas and they're dumb.

• 2:55:37Speaker 02

  Oh, I definitely.

• 2:55:38Jocko Willink?

  I'm glad I didn't do that thing because it wouldn't have been smart.

• 2:55:42Speaker 02

  I have so many ideas. Like we started and I was like, guys, the first idea, my idea for a new company being like to do a driving school, but like a school for like driving license, not like racing license and teach 16 year olds how to drive so that we can have a new generation of better drivers because the curriculum that's 70 years old can't, it needs and must need an update. And it definitely wasn't written by a race car driver, I'm sure. So if I drive well on the road, well as I suppose up for negotiation because I don't follow the rules, but the rules are just a little tame for me. So, um, and I can do that and I have a large comfort zone because I have a good experience. So I'm like, maybe I should do a driving school, but I have tons of ideas and I, will that ever come to fruition? I don't know. I mean, my idea that I didn't even say out loud

• 2:56:25Speaker 02

  came to fruition and started, you know, started a winery from scratch. So thoughts become things. You have to be careful of what it is that you're putting your mind on. I, my mind, my manifestation of things goes really fast. If I want a house, I look, I'm like, oh, I want to, and then I'll just buy a house like within a year. I'm like, oh, shoot, that happened really fast.

• 2:56:43Jocko Willink?

  What made you decide, because you have your own podcast?

• 2:56:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:56:46Jocko Willink?

  What made you decide to start that?

• 2:56:47Speaker 02

  I like talking to people and I like asking questions and I like learning about people. And, um, I realized that my empathy is in the form of understanding. So I'm not one of these people that like feels your feelings. I'm not like crying when you're crying and, um, I have a lot of empathy for dogs and animals. That's, that's where mine lies. Um, like I can literally see a dog suffering in a video and I start crying or I'll just swipe. I can't even watch it, you know? Uh, but humans, I'm like, eh.

• 2:57:17Jocko Willink?

  Suck it up.

• 2:57:19Speaker 02

  It's that right. I know. I had an expression that I said for years, which is try harder. Literally try harder. Everyone knew it and I, try harder is also why I had to tell you the health story, by the way. Um, so, uh, or the health journey. Uh, but I, I, yeah. So you, I'm a hard charger.

• 2:57:38Jocko Willink?

  And I was listening to your podcast and one of the things you did, you were talking about doing like ayahuasca.

• 2:57:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:57:44Jocko Willink?

  You've done that.

• 2:57:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:57:46Jocko Willink?

  What was that all about?

• 2:57:48Speaker 02

  Well, I'm very curious about the mystical world. I love being in the mystery. So I don't buy it all. I don't think that it's all true necessarily. But I'm very curious, like even when I way back when I, it's when I got married, I became a Catholic. And so I went to catechism classes. I get that word a little messed up sometimes. But I was always such a skeptic. I would question everything. Like one of them was like, why do we not eat meat on Fridays during Lent? If you're gonna do it, why are you doing it? And I was like, oh, because it was a luxury back then. I'm like, oh, well then, so I just pick something that's a luxury because it's not me. I mean, it's not a luxury. That's like normal now.

• 2:58:30Speaker 02

  So I'm like, I want to know why. So my like, understanding is really important. So I, so yeah, so I love to understand people. And so I ask a lot of questions and it can read off in not a podcast setting, in a regular life setting. Like if you're telling me about something going on, I'm like, oh, and then I just dive into it and I, I'm not really like hearing you out and just sort of holding the space to listen. I start asking questions. You might think I'm actually like doubting you or questioning you or like, like, like not buying it or, or just not, not feel, not very sensitive to you. And maybe you even get defensive, but that's how I, that's how I understand you. It's how I can relate. It's how I, it's just, it's just my, my empathy language.

• 2:59:12Jocko Willink?

  You're intensely curious.

• 2:59:14Speaker 02

  Intensely curious. Yeah. I love to get layers and layers deeper. So, you know, ayahuasca is one of those things that gives you access to these other spaces that are, are, are to learn, like to learn. I love to learn about myself too. And sometimes doing podcasts, actually anytime I do interviews, I learn about myself because I'm willing to process out loud. So I, I, I really just love to learn about myself. So I, I, yeah, planned a trip and, and yeah, it was back. I mean, Aaron has talked about it. This is when I was with Aaron and he talked about it on Aubrey Marcus's podcast and, and it was my Christmas present to him.

• 2:59:52Jocko Willink?

  And what did you see?

• 2:59:53Speaker 02

  It didn't work out for me. I don't know. It worked out all in the end because we, it went in, we went in March of 2020. And there was a trip was supposed to be like four or five days in Machu Picchu and then, and, and in Peru.

• 3:00:08Jocko Willink?

  Also right as COVID kicked off, literally.

• 3:00:11Speaker 02

  Well, this is the story. And then the second half of the trip was supposed to go to Patagonia and like have a relaxing part of the trip. And then all the stuff with COVID was kind of coming along and there was another couple with us and they have children. And so, um, they were a little bit more like up on what was going on in the world. And I'm very Pollyanna when it comes to how everything's going to work out. I totally think everything's going to work out. I don't know where I got that, but I do. And I was like, it's fine. It's no big deal. Everything's fine. And then it was like, okay, well, all right, maybe we won't go to Patagonia. I guess we could go home and like the, the luxury was Aaron had a plane. So, um, so everything was very flexible. And, um, and so it was like, well, we'll just, we'll do integration because you have to do integration afterwards to talk about the experience and what happened.

• 3:00:55Speaker 02

  And, and really like take the information because doing the, doing the medicine is not necessarily the, it's not the work. It's, it can be work because you can get kind of sick and I did, but, um, but it, it, it, um, it's sort of where it shows you something. It gives you some information and then what you do with it is really the process. So the integration is important to talk about what happened and, um, and then, so we were going to stay for the day, like during the day and then, then fly home. And then in the second ceremony, middle of the night and, um, pop up because the shamans are like, uh, uh, Danica, uh, Aaron, uh, wake up.

• 3:01:35Speaker 02

  The pilots called and we're like, what? And I like, what? And I sat up and, and it was like, um, they're, um, they say we need to leave. The borders are closing by 10 a.m. And I was like, what? And so it was midnight and we had to leave by like 6 a.m. to go to the airport because the border was shutting. And so we had to find like a big enough vehicle to get us out. Anyway, so, go back to the room, pack up and leave in the morning and do integration on the plane. Took the shamans home because they actually lived in Costa Rica. And the only country open on the way home to California was Costa Rica. And if we would have left in the afternoon. We would have not, we would have had to stop in Lima because of the altitude. We wouldn't have had enough fuel to get to Costa Rica.

• 3:02:18Speaker 02

  So leaving early, it was cooler and we actually were able to get all the way to Costa Rica. So like it was by the skin of our teeth, we got out of there and um, yeah. That was how, that was, that's the ayahuasca story and-

• 3:02:31Jocko Willink?

  Did you like discover anything deep and meaningful about yourself?

• 3:02:35Speaker 02

  I did, I did.

• 3:02:36Jocko Willink?

  That you could apply?

• 3:02:37Speaker 02

  I did and I didn't, and I, and I, I haven't done ayahuasca since then. Um, I, and I've been applying it for years. Um, working on applying it, which was basically, um, I had this idea that, um, I would find a partner that would complete me, that would make me, uh, that would be like a perfect balance. And like would be, everything was like perfectly symbiotic. It was like, everything was magical and we loved each other reciprocally and you know, you, everything was just perfect. I just thought that somebody would complete that circle. And I was shown that I was not going to get that and that I was going to have to get it with myself. I was, I, I, it was only going to come from yourself.

• 3:03:21Speaker 02

  And I was really, really, really, really sad about that. I was really sad and I cried a lot. And, um, and I, and I, and then after I sort of was like, okay, in this experience in my mind, um, I accepted and it was like, you actually will get what you, you get what, you'll get what you want actually. It just won't happen until you find it with yourself first. Like the feeling you're looking for, you can't find it with someone else until you find it with yourself first. So that is what's been happening over the last few years. And then, and honestly, like I, I had people ask how my life's going. I'm like, wow, it's like really fun. It's a really good life and I don't look at relationships like I used to, being super codependent and feeling like I had to adapt.

• 3:04:06Speaker 02

  Cause remember the conversation about my dad and about like not being good enough. I would always overcompensate and always try and fix myself or change something. And now, and I'd always take it so personally. I'd always be like, if something, somebody didn't like me, it's like, what's wrong with me? And something is wrong with me and um and it was something I needed to fix. And now I look at it, I'm like, well, it doesn't mean something's wrong, it just means we're not right. Like, somebody, people can be great people, but not match. You know, and I also used to mistake sameness for compatibility. And that was a problem too, because, you know, you don't want someone that's exactly the same as you. You need someone that complements you in certain ways. Like, you can't have two alphas, right? You can't have people that, you know, you can't have one person that always wants to go out and one person that never wants to go out. Like, you, you have to be compatible.

• 3:04:50Speaker 02

  And sameness is not compatibility. So, yeah, I learned a humongous lesson. It was the greatest, it was honestly of all the things that I've done. And I've done other things, I've done mushrooms. Um, I've done, I mean, I've done a mushroom journey. I've done one, like, specific one that was a very high dose to, to learn.

• 3:05:07Jocko Willink?

  Is this the heroic dose?

• 3:05:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did a hero's dose. I did a five grams.

• 3:05:10Jocko Willink?

  Do you see death or something like this?

• 3:05:12Speaker 02

  No, I, uh, actually, I did have a little bit of a moment where it was at one point in time, there was these, this energy of, like, collective energy of people that was like, oh, come this way. And it was like upward, they're like, you, you know, and they said, if you wanna be an ascended master, you have to leave your form behind, just come on. And I was like, looking up going, uh, no, I think I wanna be human. And I had to choose to be human. And then I came back down and then from that point on in the experience, I had to build every construct that it took to being human again. And the first one that I had to agree to was the mind. I had to agree to this construct that's not real. And I, in the experience at first, I knew that this was not real. And I was like, oh, shoot, how am I ever gonna come back? Because I know it's not real.

• 3:05:57Speaker 02

  And you actually have to believe it's real to be in this experience. And the first thing I thought was my sister's gonna be so mad at me.

• 3:06:04Speaker 02

  Cause she just does not understand this part of me. She's like a mom of four. She loves being home. She doesn't do any of this stuff. And I was like, my sister's gonna be so mad at me. And I'm gonna miss my family. And I was like, oh, shoot. Um, and so, uh, but I built those constructs back to being human. And, um, and, and then I also feel like I understood why we have amnesia as people. Why don't we remember where we came from? What's the point? Why don't we know? And, um, and that's because if we knew the full extent of the truth, then we wouldn't be able to play this game because we have to, we have to forget.

• 3:06:37Speaker 02

  To play the game.

• 3:06:38Jocko Willink?

  Right on.

• 3:06:39Speaker 02

  Have you ever done any, I'm guessing you probably haven't done any of that stuff?

• 3:06:42Jocko Willink?

  No, no.

• 3:06:42Speaker 02

  It might not call you and it has to call you.

• 3:06:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I'm, I've not done any of that stuff. I've never even smoked pot before. So like I drank for a while when I was in the SEAL teams, you know, it's a big drinking culture and I got it. Like that's what we're doing. Okay, cool. That's what we're doing.

• 3:06:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:06:57Jocko Willink?

  And then pretty much when I got out of the teams, I didn't have any reason to drink anymore and I just kinda,

• 3:07:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:07:03Jocko Willink?

  just kinda stopped drinking and that was that. And now I'm very, I'm definitely anti alcohol.

• 3:07:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:07:09Jocko Willink?

  And I've become more and more anti alcohol because it really messes some people up and.

• 3:07:14Speaker 02

  You mean just like on a, like sleep and that, or do you mean like mentally, like they just, it's a coping?

• 3:07:20Jocko Willink?

  Like the sleep stuff, I kind of feel like whatever, hey, but when people, I've seen lives get destroyed, you know, through alcohol and.

• 3:07:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:07:29Jocko Willink?

  I look at it like probably, I don't, I don't know what the number is, but out of every hundred people that drink, there's probably 97 of them that are going to be totally perfectly fine and good to go.

• 3:07:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:07:39Jocko Willink?

  And there's three of them that it's going to wreck their lives and they don't know who they are.

• 3:07:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:07:42Jocko Willink?

  You know, you don't know who you are. You don't know if you're one of those people. And so you just get sent down a downward spiral. And so I just can't really

• 3:07:53Jocko Willink?

  support it. And then the freaking ayahuasca and stuff, you know, it's like a big thing in the veteran, veterans right now.

• 3:08:00Speaker 02

  Oh, well, I mean, have you heard, um, I mean, uh, Bob Parsons who owned Go Daddy, he is, uh, he was in the Marines. And he, he contributes coming home to doing LSD, mushrooms, ayahuasca, doing those experiences, helped him finally come home. And he's an advocate for others to do the same to like it. And he, he's talked about it publicly, like he, he, um, yeah, it was for him, it was very important.

• 3:08:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And so I have a bunch of friends that have done it. I have a bunch of friends that are working with organizations to grow it and make it more accessible to people. Uh, I just. Feel fine.

• 3:08:37Speaker 02

  And you don't need it.

• 3:08:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 3:08:38Speaker 02

  It's totally fine. You don't need it.

• 3:08:39Jocko Willink?

  And like, and yeah, so I've, the way I described it to some of my friends that have, that were like, oh, you should try it. And I'm like, I feel like, and you can relate to this analogy that I've given, that I feel like I'm going down the highway at 80 miles an hour. And you want me to pull my car over, take the engine apart and then put it back together and then like, start driving again and hopefully that everything works like.

• 3:08:59Speaker 02

  It's not for everybody.

• 3:09:00Jocko Willink?

  I don't really think I need to do that. I really don't want to take that risk because, you know, the screw gets left out or whatever. You know, like the cotter pin that your dad left off the freaking brake. Like, I don't really need that to be happening with my brain. So it makes me a little bit, a little bit nervous. But yeah, so.

• 3:09:16Speaker 02

  So true.

• 3:09:17Jocko Willink?

  I, but I have friends that have had been helped immensely by it. So I'm not like anti.

• 3:09:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:09:24Jocko Willink?

  The, the, the medicine.

• 3:09:28Speaker 02

  It sounds a lot better than drug.

• 3:09:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I'm not anti the drug, but I, or anti the medicine, but I just, it's not for me.

• 3:09:34Speaker 02

  But it is also used more medically in my mind. Like there's sometimes I use mushrooms recreationally, but I mean, when I'm talking about the ayahuasca experience, like the hero's dose, that was, um, I was, I was using it not to escape or not to, I was trying to, I wanted to have a deeper experience.

• 3:09:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And like I said, I have some friends that have absolutely been helped in a huge way by it.

• 3:09:58Speaker 02

  So great.

• 3:09:59Jocko Willink?

  I am hearing now that there's some people that it's not helping and it's making it worse. So I, that's not a story that is getting propagated very much.

• 3:10:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:10:08Jocko Willink?

  I'm not sure why it's getting not propagated, probably because they're kind of, you know, when you're going in the downward spiral, you don't say, yeah, let me come on a podcast and tell you about how fucked up I am now.

• 3:10:16Speaker 02

  Well, if it's also a downward spiral, it might mean they keep doing it. Maybe they're using it as a coping, maybe they're not actually doing the work and they're just doing the, doing the drug or doing the medicine. And it's not really being used as medicine. It's being used as like, they would call it in the spiritual world, like a spiritual bypass or you're sort of bypassing the actual work that it's meant to provide you as opposed to, um, so you're just doing it to do it. You know, you're like, oh, if I do this, then I'll, but it's not in the, like, I've only had truly two real experiences. And I mean, over the course of from 2020 until, you know, for over three years, three and a half years, I've only had two experiences and they have shown me so much. And, um, and you can integrate for years. The ayahuasca experience in 2020, I've been integrating for years.

• 3:11:02Jocko Willink?

  When you stopped racing, was it like a weight off your back? Did you feel like, when you were racing? Was it always like, how am I gonna do? How am I gonna do? How am I gonna do? Everyone's watching. Did you feel like massive pressure for those 25 years or whatever it was that you raced?

• 3:11:18Speaker 02

  I did. And then-

• 3:11:20Jocko Willink?

  Did that leave a mark?

• 3:11:21Speaker 02

  Uh, I think that was, you know, I mean, I retired and all this stuff. I mean, so that could have been my body also, just like, nothing's free. You know, as they, you know, many, many great philosophers have said and psychologists, that nothing is free. I think Jordan Peterson's the one that comes to mind. You know, there's, you just don't get away with anything in life. And so I can't get away with working that hard, being that stressed, putting myself in that, in so many compromising positions emotionally, physically, mentally, and not have some sort of like comeback from that, right? Some sort of rebalance that my body and mind need. And, uh, and so, I, I mean, yeah, it was, it was very stressful. To the point where now I do this F1 stuff. And I've been asked by, you know, multiple teams, like at the end of last year, Red Bull was like, oh, like, there was a word of like, hey, we'd like to put you in a car, not to race, but just to drive it.

• 3:12:06Speaker 02

  Like, do you want to drive a Formula One car? And, um, and I didn't honestly, I, I was like, hard for me to say, I feel bad. I feel like I should just, oh yeah, no problem. I don't, honestly, I don't have the confidence. Like, I don't, it's too much stress. It's too much pressure. I trust that I would be able to do it. I do, but I don't, I am not ready for what it takes. So when I say yes to anything, I'm saying yes to everything. Which means like, I'm not just yes, and then I wing it or fu- Like, when I say yes, I'm, I'm saying yes to the whole kit and caboodle. Cause I know I don't want to be bad at anything. So like back, like backtrack to 2018. I was asked to do the ESPYS, to host the ESPYS. And, um, at first, I, I didn't know if I should do it or not.

• 3:12:50Speaker 02

  And it took a long time for me to decide, cause I knew that like, I'm not funny. I'm not a dancer. I'm not a singer. I'm like, what? Why me? Right? I'm like, I don't know. I'm not really like a, I'm not like a, like a present the ESPYS kind of person. I'm not Drake. I'm not Justin Timberlake. I'm not Jimmy Kimmel. Like, I, I don't know what I bring to the table. And, um, and so I, it took a long time to decide because I knew that it was going to require me to like, find that. What is that thing about me that I can put on stage that will be somewhat entertaining? And so I knew that it would require me to dig pretty deep and do a lot of work. And so I it took a long time to say yes, because I knew I was saying yes to all the work. And I do the it's the same for everything I do, everything I do.

• 3:13:31Jocko Willink?

  So this whole post racing life, it's been like a

• 3:13:36Speaker 02

  The ghost kicking in, by the way.

• 3:13:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 3:13:40Jocko Willink?

  The this whole post race life, that's where you're at now. And it seems like you're in a pretty awesome spot.

• 3:13:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I I feel like I'm just I'm having so much fun in life.

• 3:13:52Speaker 02

  I mean, I work a lot right now. I do need a break. I'm ready for that. I feel like I've been going since basically May, like almost every day. I had one week where I did nothing when I got back. So I left in May for the Indy 500. I was at home for about three weeks in Indiana with my family. And I did the Indy 500, I did Montreal F1 race, I did some work in between. And then I went to Europe for six weeks and vacationed, which, look, it's a vacation, I get it, but I'm not home. And then and I was traveling somewhere every three to five days. And then I finished up.

• 3:14:25Jocko Willink?

  That's not a vacation. In my opinion, going to other some other country, people talking other languages, being in a different room, getting on a train, like all this stuff.

• 3:14:35Speaker 02

  It was a lot of work. There was a lot of work in there.

• 3:14:36Jocko Willink?

  I don't want any of that.

• 3:14:37Speaker 02

  So then I finished up with Budapest for Formula One, and then I flew back to Indiana and I did some more. That's actually where I I ended up staying longer in Indiana, because it was 120,000 degrees in Scottsdale. And I was like, and my my sister is obsessed with CrossFit. And I am, I it's I love it, but I don't do it anymore. And so she loves going to the games. She follows all the athletes. She knows how they're doing. They she watches the competitions. I watch none. But I don't mind. I love going to the games, too. It's fun. I love watching competition. And so I'll go to any sporting event. And except cricket, that seems like it would be really boring.

• 3:15:12Speaker 02

  Sorry for the cricket fans out there. But I I so I so I was like, all right, I'll stay and we'll go to the CrossFit games.

• 3:15:17Jocko Willink?

  Cricket's the number two most popular sport in the world after soccer.

• 3:15:20Speaker 02

  I'm obviously missing something.

• 3:15:21Jocko Willink?

  There's like something that just happened in India, and it was like the most watched thing of all time. Crazy. Yep. So, eh, cool.

• 3:15:30Speaker 02

  I'm wrong, obviously.

• 3:15:31Jocko Willink?

  Go ahead, Danica. Just talk smack about most of the world playing their cricket games.

• 3:15:35Speaker 02

  Exactly. This is why people don't all like me, but at least you can respect my authenticity. I don't like cricket. Um, uh, but many do, and so I'm missing something. Um, but I, uh, and so I decided I was like, all right, well, fine, I'll stay and then we'll go to the CrossFit Games and I was so lucky to meet you. And the way that that happened, uh, I was like thinking, oh my God, Jaco sponsoring this. I was like, I wonder if he's going to be here. I so want to meet Jaco. And, and so then a couple of days had gone by. You came to the last day and I was, I didn't think you were coming and I was like, that would make sense. I understand that and maybe you're just sponsoring it and that's totally fine. And then I don't know who, if it was your manager or like someone that was managing the, the, the new product line.

• 3:16:13Jocko Willink?

  Someone in the crew or whatever.

• 3:16:14Speaker 02

  Someone in the crew and they, and so that somebody said you were there and I was like, oh, great. And then he started walking, you guys started walking towards the direction that I was in. And he looked over at me and waved and was like, Danica. And I was like, perfect. And I might've said hi to him, but I can't remember for sure or not. But I was like, hi. And I went over right to you and I just started talking and I realized that I'm, this is the direct me is I just like, go right in.

• 3:16:37Jocko Willink?

  Well, they said something to me like, they're like, hey, uh, Danica Patrick's here. Would you, I'm like, where's she at? Let's go. Let's go say what's up.

• 3:16:43Speaker 02

  Oh my God. Great. Well, I'm so flattered that we had equal interest or at least interest. Um, and so, uh, sometimes I don't know if anybody even knows, some of, doesn't even know who I am. That's, and that's totally fine too. Um, but we had a great little 15, 20 minute conversation that, um, we decided we'd end up finishing this way.

• 3:16:59Jocko Willink?

  I brought you, I brought you drinks.

• 3:17:01Speaker 02

  You did, which is so good. I mean, I've finished all the cookies. By the way, the cookies are like the best snack. Like, I don't know why they're so satiating, but I, I, that and a cup of coffee is, and I've got, they're gone. I've ate them all. Um, the drinks are so good. I, there's a pink lemon. I like the pink mist, but I also like the sweeter one. The savage one. That's, that's a little of the sweeter one. That's, and I, you know, but the pink lemonade's great.

• 3:17:25Jocko Willink?

  We have coffee flavored milk coming.

• 3:17:28Speaker 02

  Oh, stop it.

• 3:17:29Jocko Willink?

  No, I'm serious.

• 3:17:29Speaker 02

  Oh, that's going down.

• 3:17:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's going down.

• 3:17:31Speaker 02

  That's going down.

• 3:17:32Jocko Willink?

  I don't really like coffee. But of course I had to try it and it tastes kind of like tiramisu like that coffee flavor. That's it's so good.

• 3:17:40Speaker 02

  Wow. So you're the products are seriously like well done.

• 3:17:44Jocko Willink?

  Appreciate it.

• 3:17:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the drinks really do work. The goes really go.

• 3:17:48Jocko Willink?

  Yes, they do. They're for real.

• 3:17:49Speaker 02

  What is it that makes you go so much with the go?

• 3:17:52Jocko Willink?

  It's really the nootropic. So there's only 95 milligrams of caffeine in there, but it's got alpha GPC. It's got thermobromine. So it's got other things in it that take that make it feel like it's more than caffeine.

• 3:18:03Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 3:18:04Jocko Willink?

  But it doesn't get you all jittery. So yeah, we, we put a lot into it.

• 3:18:09Speaker 02

  Go works.

• 3:18:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, go works.

• 3:18:12Speaker 02

  Basically today I've drank a milk for breakfast and I haven't, I haven't drank enough water. I've definitely been drinking all these liquids.

• 3:18:18Jocko Willink?

  My life right there. Milk for breakfast, maybe a go for podcasts and then it's on. What does that get us up to speed? We good? Does that get us up to speed? We covered your podcast. We covered your wine. Oh, I heard in your podcast you make candles.

• 3:18:32Speaker 02

  I do. I have candles. Yeah.

• 3:18:33Jocko Willink?

  You make candles?

• 3:18:34Speaker 02

  So I took a trip. Actually, I'm headed to Egypt in a few more days again. Um, I went to Egypt at the beginning of 2021 and I'm obsessed with, um, like obviously loving the deep ancient history as much as I love excavating like the nature of reality, which is where sort of those plant medicines come in medicines. And, um, and so I, I love it and I love Egypt and I went there in 2021. And at the end of the trip, we went and visited this aromacologist and he was telling us about the smells and what they do. And the sort of the bio reaction, like biochemistry reaction to, you know, everything from, uh, myrrh to frankincense and all these different oils. And so, um, so I bought $500 worth of oils and brought them home.

• 3:19:15Speaker 02

  And, uh, and so I ended up making these candles, uh, I made four different candles out of it. And, uh, they're curated for different places in the house based on sort of the, the, the essential oils and the vibe that each one has. And so they are really good and they're in a wine glass. So when you're done with it, you just wash it and you have a wine glass. So it's called Voyant, which is stand. Yeah, exactly. What Voyant means the seer. So it's kind of about sort of seeing more of the truth.

• 3:19:39Jocko Willink?

  Right. So what, anything else? Anything else I'm missing?

• 3:19:44Speaker 02

  No, I mean, race broadcasting and podcasting and wine and candles and I feel like I always forget one, but I, but let's just call that good. Let's call that.

• 3:19:57Jocko Willink?

  Sponsor got forgotten.

• 3:19:58Speaker 02

  My new, my new sponsors are all in the health and wellness industry. They're like, they're like stem cells and PRP and like all kinds of super cool stuff. So I'm into all that as well.

• 3:20:07Jocko Willink?

  Very cool.

• 3:20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, that's, that's an incredible, incredible deep dive on my life.

• 3:20:12Jocko Willink?

  Well.

• 3:20:13Speaker 02

  Was there any stories that surprised you?

• 3:20:15Jocko Willink?

  Hmm.

• 3:20:18Jocko Willink?

  Well, I did a lot of research, so I didn't think I was going to get surprised. I mean, obviously it's the first time you talked about that one deal where you

• 3:20:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:20:26Jocko Willink?

  had to work through some sponsorship and some payment and stuff like that. So that's the kind of one I hadn't heard before, but you know, in reading your books and then doing research and watching interviews with you and stuff like that, I don't think I got surprised.

• 3:20:41Jocko Willink?

  No, I didn't get surprised, but I definitely, it's, it's interesting. I guess the, the parts that you didn't really talk about in some of the other things was just like, what I wanted to know was first of all, like how you're dealing with fear. And I'm always interested in someone that's really talented at something and what it seems like for them to be talented in that thing. And do you realize how talented you are and when do you realize that? And at a certain point being like, oh, well, I wasn't as talented as this other person who was more talented than me. And that's why they were able to win. And I was only able to get fourth place or seventh place. I was only able to, like, that's a real thing that people contend with in life. And everyone has to deal with that unless you're like Michael Jordan.

• 3:21:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:21:24Jocko Willink?

  Or, I mean, how many people just get to be like, oh, I'm literally the best person in the world. Not many people get to do that.

• 3:21:29Speaker 02

  Even like a story, Lewis Hamilton's won seven championships. He's, was so close to winning his eighth a couple of years ago, and it was a very controversial ending to the Formula One season with Max Verstappen and he won. But even, you know, we were just, uh, I'm. I don't know when this is coming out. I don't know if I can conclude this, but I'm going to be in the new Drive to Survive series.

• 3:21:47Jocko Willink?

  Oh damn.

• 3:21:47Speaker 02

  Season and so, uh, and so we were doing a huge sit down for like six hours the other day. And one of the things that came through was like Lewis at one point, like in the year has like doubted his talent. So you can be the best in the world and still doubt yourself. I doubted myself all the time. The amount of times I would go back to the bus and cry about how I qualified or what happened. Like all the time. I mean, it's just human. I think it's just, you know, I think it's part of being good at things too. It's like you have to, to get better. You have to think you need to.

• 3:22:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 3:22:17Speaker 02

  And I always need, I'm like, I'm not the best at anything I do.

• 3:22:20Jocko Willink?

  That's the same with me. And I think that's the same with people that are constantly trying to get better. They're like, cause let's face it, if you're like, oh, I'm the best driver. Well, you wouldn't care. You wouldn't go in the bus cry. You just sit there and be like,

• 3:22:29Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 3:22:30Jocko Willink?

  That was only because the car, that was only because the tracker.

• 3:22:32Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 3:22:33Jocko Willink?

  Instead of being like, I would have done this better.

• 3:22:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:22:35Jocko Willink?

  How can I fix it?

• 3:22:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm always growing, always learning. And if there's one thing that I, is like the point of life to me, it's to grow and evolve.

• 3:22:45Jocko Willink?

  Yes, indeed.

• 3:22:48Jocko Willink?

  People can find you, you're at danicapatrick.com. You can pretty much link to everything from there. You got a YouTube, Twitter, Instagram and Facebook, all at Danica Patrick, which is very nice, very easy. Echo Charles, you got any questions?

• 3:23:01Speaker 01

  Yes, I do.

• 3:23:01Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 3:23:02Speaker 02

  Oh, good.

• 3:23:02Jocko Willink?

  Here we go.

• 3:23:03Speaker 01

  I'm very, I'm hopeful that I'm going to be oval respectful on these, but hey, you won't never know.

• 3:23:09Speaker 02

  You can't make a mistake right now.

• 3:23:10Speaker 01

  Okay, there we go.

• 3:23:11Speaker 02

  Your intention is because you care and you're curious.

• 3:23:12Speaker 01

  Yes, ma'am.

• 3:23:13Speaker 02

  That's all that matters.

• 3:23:14Speaker 01

  You ever watched Days of Thunder?

• 3:23:15Speaker 02

  I totally have seen Days of Thunder.

• 3:23:16Speaker 01

  Is that your jam?

• 3:23:17Speaker 02

  Excellent movie.

• 3:23:17Speaker 01

  Okay, that was the question because like, because that.

• 3:23:20Speaker 02

  I love the way that they described drafting.

• 3:23:22Speaker 01

  Yes, okay, that was going to be one of my questions. Oh, so it's not accurate. That's not a thing.

• 3:23:26Speaker 02

  No, it's kind of just laughing because he was like using salt, sugar packets on Nicole Kidman's leg, you know?

• 3:23:32Speaker 01

  Well, he got to make you romantic for sure. But he was talking about losing his ride.

• 3:23:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:23:36Speaker 01

  Remember, right?

• 3:23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:23:38Speaker 01

  And that's what you were talking about, like the ride or whatever? That was, yeah, that was always hard, hard to understand.

• 3:23:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Losing your ride just means you out of your, out of the seat, out of the team. Need to find a new ride. You need to find a new team and a new car to drive.

• 3:23:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's like, it's almost like two working, well, more than two, but those two main working parts. You got the driver, you got the car and they can kind of interchange, kind of a thing.

• 3:23:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. The driver, the driver can plug into a new team that has a car.

• 3:24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:24:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:24:04Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 3:24:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:24:05Speaker 01

  Are you a defensive driver on the, on the regular streets?

• 3:24:09Speaker 02

  I'm an offensive driver.

• 3:24:10Speaker 01

  That makes sense to me completely.

• 3:24:12Speaker 02

  I actually told, if someone wants to go faster than me, I want them to, because I'm already driving fast. Like into me, they're a rabbit. Go catch the cops for me. Like if I'm doing eighty-five on the highway or ninety, and someone passes me, I'm like, thank you.

• 3:24:25Speaker 01

  If you're at a stoplight and someone like pulls up by you and like revs their engine, is it on?

• 3:24:31Speaker 02

  Oh, I look it over and I'm like, you have absolutely no idea who you're dealing with.

• 3:24:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:24:37Speaker 02

  Oh, and I'll two-foot it at that point in time. If it's really on, you gotta take your right foot off the brake and put your left foot on the brake, right foot on the gas, and you, you, you, you trim some, some transition time down. Yeah, you gotta make sure that thing's not on auto restart. You don't wanna have to run it and start it back up before you know, no, sport mode, baby.

• 3:24:56Speaker 01

  Alright. Uh, last insight to be gained. Uh, you ever play the game Mario Kart?

• 3:25:01Speaker 02

  Of when I was a kid. I don't play video games, but when I was a kid, I played, um, like Duck Hunt, Tr- uh, Track and Field, um, Super Mario Brothers, and then Mario Kart.

• 3:25:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, Mario Kart, I figured that'd be the jam.

• 3:25:12Jocko Willink?

  Wait, so Mario Kart is a video game about driving a go-kart?

• 3:25:15Speaker 01

  Yes, that's exactly what it is. So, so Mario, Super Mario Brothers.

• 3:25:18Speaker 02

  Exactly. You can pick up mushrooms that give you special powers.

• 3:25:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that make you faster. Oh, yeah.

• 3:25:23Speaker 02

  Same mushrooms.

• 3:25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go. Oh, yeah.

• 3:25:25Jocko Willink?

  And wait, so it's good? It's good?

• 3:25:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:25:27Speaker 02

  Uh, it's old.

• 3:25:29Speaker 01

  To me, Mario Kart, especially the old one, the, the OG, uh, GameCube or whatever, not the, you know, they, they update them and stuff.

• 3:25:35Speaker 02

  Did you get that old school Nintendo that came out a few years back where they're like, oh, we're gonna kick it old school?

• 3:25:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yeah, big time. It's a little, it's a little USB. It's like a chip has all the games in it. Oh, yeah, for sure. Doctor Mario all day. But Mario Kart is GameCube though. That's later. And that, that feels like something you'd be into.

• 3:25:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did play it when I was young. Yeah, but I didn't keep going. I, I'm not a big fan of video games.

• 3:25:59Speaker 01

  You didn't go pro. You liked the real thing.

• 3:26:00Speaker 02

  I didn't go pro in that. No, no, exactly. Yeah. It's, uh, I think, I feel like video games are, I feel like it's a, guys love video game. Like most, a lot of guys like video games.

• 3:26:09Speaker 01

  Same thing with car racing usually.

• 3:26:11Speaker 02

  Guys like a lot of that too. That's true. That, hey.

• 3:26:14Speaker 01

  One of those.

• 3:26:14Speaker 02

  Full of the fair.

• 3:26:15Jocko Willink?

  Look at that, Charles.

• 3:26:17Speaker 02

  Respect, respect.

• 3:26:19Speaker 01

  But hey, do what you dig, sister. You're doing great. Great to meet you in real life.

• 3:26:23Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

• 3:26:24Jocko Willink?

  Dan, any, any, uh, any closing thoughts?

• 3:26:27Speaker 02

  Man, just thoughts become things. You know, your mind is super powerful. Um.

• 3:26:35Speaker 02

  Know who you are, find out who you are. Don't be afraid of alone time. That's I think where you really, really figure it out and um and try and trust that the that try and try accountability. I think, you know, accountability and it's like it's the honestly, if there's one thing that I'm the most proud of myself for, it's learning accountability. It's actually saying like, oh, I'm sorry. Or what is this situation saying about me? And I'm sure I don't get it right at all the time, but but but being more and more accountable all the time in my life for the reality that I live in is super powerful, super powerful.

• 3:27:12Jocko Willink?

  Absolutely. Well, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. You've lived a freaking wild life doing wild stuff. It's it's pretty amazing and you're sharing your stories, you're sharing your lessons and I know you've inspired a ton of people and you're continuing to inspire them today. So thanks for what you've been doing. Keep doing it.

• 3:27:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 3:27:33Jocko Willink?

  Thank you. And with that, Danica Patrick has left the building.

• 3:27:42Jocko Willink?

  And then I recorded a podcast with Danica Patrick and now we're doing the support section. Yeah. So that's what we're doing. Pretty uh cool to she interviewed me or I interviewed her. Is that an interview?

• 3:27:57Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 3:27:58Jocko Willink?

  Or was it a discussion? An interview isn't interview like I'm asking you questions.

• 3:28:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:28:02Jocko Willink?

  This is more like a ta- a talk or exploration or a or a discussion, right?

• 3:28:08Speaker 01

  I like the exploration.

• 3:28:09Jocko Willink?

  I would have a hard time classifying that as an interview. Like if someone said, oh, did you interview Danica Patrick? I'd say, well, no, but we talked about like her life and asked questions.

• 3:28:24Speaker 01

  It's a great area, I guess. Technically, was there questions asked? Yes. You know, she answered them, you know?

• 3:28:31Jocko Willink?

  What's the fastest you've ever gone in a car?

• 3:28:35Speaker 01

  Fastest I ever got in a car.

• 3:28:35Jocko Willink?

  Or motorcycle?

• 3:28:37Speaker 01

  Um.

• 3:28:40Speaker 01

  Obviously not nearly as fast, like 200 miles per hour to me is psychotic, like that's going back in

• 3:28:46Jocko Willink?

  And that's, that's the norm.

• 3:28:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, so 115, I remember that going down. Um, I can't remember going faster than that.

• 3:28:55Jocko Willink?

  I got a 140, I got a buck 40, but

• 3:28:59Speaker 01

  In a car?

• 3:28:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, a car. Uh, JP, Danelle.

• 3:29:03Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah.

• 3:29:05Jocko Willink?

  We were, me and Sarge were in Vegas for UFC. And so we were like up there cornering somebody, coaching somebody, something like this. And JP was like, I, we, so we had tickets, you know, we had backstage, we had the whole nine yards. So I texted JP, you know, something like, hey, bro. Just FYI, I'm in Vegas going to UFC, got tickets, got whatever. And he's like, on my way, right?

• 3:29:29Jocko Willink?

  And at this time, he had one of those kind of legit Chrysler 300s. You remember when those cars were pretty hyped?

• 3:29:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. When they first kind of came out.

• 3:29:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but then they, but then they put like a big Hemi engine in them and souped it up a little bit. So he had one of those legit Hemi Chrysler 300s. And so I texted him like, hey, bro, you know, like, what's your ETA? He sent me like a picture back. He's doing like a buck 47 on the highway, just, or you could haul in the mail.

• 3:30:03Jocko Willink?

  JP used to race motorcycles, like it's a mirror, like JP is why insurance is high for young men, right? Teenage kid, can you imagine trying to insure JP to now for a vehicle when he's 17 or 16?

• 3:30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:30:19Jocko Willink?

  There's no, there's no, you need to put the, it needs to be a, it needs to be a thousand dollars a day.

• 3:30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, very unrealistic.

• 3:30:26Jocko Willink?

  Cause he is going to get after it. Have you ever seen the? Isle of Man. No. Race. Isle. It's a motorcycle race. Oh, oh. And it's around this island and these, it's motorcycles. And they're going, whatever, 160 miles an hour. But there's just, it's just a road and there'll be like a stone wall. Next to it and these guys get a little bit of air and they're just hauling ass. There's buildings because it's in the island Isle of Man. So there's buildings like on the road. You know how in England and in Ireland and in those parts of the world? You, there's a road and there's like a pub. That when you take one footstep outside the pub, you're on the street. It's like that kind of thing.

• 3:31:11Jocko Willink?

  And these are old stone buildings and stuff. Sure. And people die every year. Like every year. But let's say JP got a terminal disease.

• 3:31:24Jocko Willink?

  I would sponsor JP for Isle of Man TT. I would sponsor him to buy him a sick motorcycle. A sick set of leathers. Sure. And just like Echelon front Jaco fuel. Just go. Before he could get some. Turn them loose. Because can you imagine, look JP taking risks as a normal person. But then imagine he's dying.

• 3:31:49Jocko Willink?

  He's going to win that race or he's going to die.

• 3:31:52Jocko Willink?

  First of all, his normal state of mind would be he's either going to die or win the race. But if he was dying, the reason I would only sponsor him if he had a terminal disease is because if he didn't have a terminal disease, now I just gave him one.

• 3:32:06Jocko Willink?

  I gave him the disease of victory because he'll do anything. But yeah, talking to Dan, she got conditioned, right? To just speed. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's not that big of a deal to her. But yeah, 200 miles an hour, 220 miles an hour. Other cars are six inches away, eight inches away. That's, that's hauling ass. Yeah. That's hauling ass. And, and again, that the pressure that I talked to her about? That's a lot of pressure to be on her all the time. The whole world was watching her, by the way. Yeah. You know, like everyone, oh, how'd she do? How'd she do? Oh, yeah, with the hype. Yeah, the hype. She was the, yeah, what's that? What's the term they use in MMA when someone's like super hyped? The hype train. Like she was just hype trained for years. Yeah. So.

• 3:32:52Jocko Willink?

  A lot of pressure.

• 3:32:53Speaker 01

  Making a big splash.

• 3:32:54Jocko Willink?

  And also interesting to hear her kind of, you know, getting healthy, getting healthy and how she kind of, she didn't fall, here's the interesting, she, she didn't fall off the path. From a discipline perspective, she just was doing the wrong things, you know? Lots of long distance, slow cardio, eating the wrong stuff. She straight up went vegan for a while, like that's just kind of, in many, many, many, many, many cases, not going to be real good for you.

• 3:33:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, so if you're working out hard.

• 3:33:25Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:33:25Speaker 01

  Bro, you can't, it's not sustainable, it's not realistic.

• 3:33:29Jocko Willink?

  But definitely awesome to hear from her and cool to sit down and talk with her. So there you go, Danica Patrick. Hey, speaking of getting on the path,

• 3:33:38Jocko Willink?

  like we're doing Def Reset. So this is going to start January 1st, but it actually starts immediately. Cause if you're not in the game right now, you, you're not going to be ready for it when it comes. So that's what we're doing. We're going to be working out with Jason Kleepa. We're going to be doing leadership with Ashlam Front. We're going to be doing discipline directives from me, fueled by Jaco Fuel. Check out thedefreset.com, get registered. This is where you have the opportunity to change your trajectory of your next year. That's what you can do. Change the trajectory of your next year. You could be flat, you could be going down a little bit, you could be going up three degrees, or you could be going up 19 degrees, 24 degrees going up. That's what we're doing.

• 3:34:24Jocko Willink?

  Get better life, get better health, get better fitness, get on the path. Thedefreset.com, we're all gonna do it, you know, we're gonna get some.

• 3:34:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:34:34Jocko Willink?

  Hey, hey, by the way, when you're doing that, you need fuel. Any recommendations?

• 3:34:40Speaker 01

  Jaco Fuel, all day. So, uh, and you know, I haven't shaken out the numbers or whatever, but you know, the, um, So how much do you have to eat protein wise? If you just start with protein, how much do you like Jaco? Me, this guy, this guy, like individually, we all got to eat a certain amount of protein to get the amount of, um, you know, for to gain, gain your muscle.

• 3:35:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 3:35:03Speaker 01

  The other program.

• 3:35:04Jocko Willink?

  Or maintain your muscle.

• 3:35:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think, and you might be different just because actually I'm different. I know I'm different because I got freaking primal tricky beef coming. I got all this stuff. So my access to steak is pretty abundant, but the normal person, it's not like that. It can actually be kind of hard to get that amount of protein. Like day after day after it's, it's kind of hard. So I figure if you do the numbers, like the, the, you know, we're on the death reset. We're lifting, we're doing all this stuff. You do the numbers as far as Jaco fuel goes, the milk, I would say that would be the number one thing you want.

• 3:35:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's probably going to be the number one thing you want. Put that at the top of the list.

• 3:35:42Speaker 01

  Like the difference between having it and not having it to me is going to be the biggest, I think with milk.

• 3:35:46Jocko Willink?

  Bro, by the way, it's, you know, it's winter and look, I know that in Southern California, winter doesn't hold a lot of weight. If you're from Minnesota or you're from Maine, but let's face it, it's a little cooler out right now and I'm back on that. Warm or let's call it hot chocolate milk.

• 3:36:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:36:03Jocko Willink?

  In the morning.

• 3:36:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wait, the RTD one or the mix?

• 3:36:06Jocko Willink?

  No, the mix.

• 3:36:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:36:08Jocko Willink?

  The mix.

• 3:36:08Speaker 01

  I dig it.

• 3:36:09Jocko Willink?

  So, and here's a couple of key components. Number one, heat the, heat the milk, then mix it with the milk. That's component number one. Component number two. Heavy whipping cream with monk fruit in it. Mix that up. You can make whipped cream, kind of like a keto whipped cream. And you put that in this, you'll be, you will, you might as well go to whatever. Do you like chocolate milk? Do you like hot chocolate?

• 3:36:34Speaker 01

  I very much like hot chocolate.

• 3:36:36Jocko Willink?

  Where's the best hot chocolate that you would get from a store?

• 3:36:39Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know. I have no idea.

• 3:36:41Jocko Willink?

  So, but you know, when you go to a certain coffee shops?

• 3:36:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:36:43Jocko Willink?

  And you order a hot chocolate?

• 3:36:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:36:45Jocko Willink?

  It's really good.

• 3:36:46Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 3:36:46Jocko Willink?

  This be like that.

• 3:36:47Speaker 01

  It'd be that level.

• 3:36:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that level. I'm not kidding.

• 3:36:50Speaker 01

  Restaurant.

• 3:36:50Jocko Willink?

  That level.

• 3:36:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:36:51Jocko Willink?

  Restaurant level is that good.

• 3:36:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:36:54Jocko Willink?

  So it's chocolate milk. Heat the milk up, then add the chocolate, mix it, then put the heavy whipping cream with monk fruit that you made into whipped cream, put it in there, you're gonna be, you, you will be 100%.

• 3:37:09Speaker 01

  100%.

• 3:37:10Jocko Willink?

  100% gratified and satisfied.

• 3:37:13Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 3:37:13Jocko Willink?

  And you'll still be on the path, by the way. That's the crazy thing. You can be on the path.

• 3:37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:37:17Jocko Willink?

  While you're doing this.

• 3:37:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:37:18Jocko Willink?

  It's amazing.

• 3:37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, Christmas time, so, uh, Lonnie, my brother's girlfriend.

• 3:37:22Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 3:37:23Speaker 01

  She makes these homemade cookies.

• 3:37:25Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:37:25Speaker 01

  And they have like, I don't know what they got in there, but it's, I know it's probably not that healthy. I'm saying, I know, I think there's like Oreo chunks in there, there's marshmallows in there, and then it's like homemade chocolate chip cookies. It's kind of a thing. She made a lot of them too. So yeah, when they're cruising there and they're in there, it's like, oh, you know, this is kind of a rare occasion, they're here or whatever. Anyway, to say no to that kind of stuff when it's in your house or whatever, tends to be harder

• 3:37:50Speaker 01

  around the holidays, in my opinion. So if you got a substitute, then I think that's gonna pay dividends. That's what I think.

• 3:37:55Jocko Willink?

  That's what I'm telling you. So, there you go. Hey, by the way, Def Reset, you're gonna need Hydrate. You're definitely gonna want some go in the vicinity, right?

• 3:38:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:38:05Jocko Willink?

  Super cruel.

• 3:38:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:38:07Jocko Willink?

  Joint Warfare, cause you're, you're working hard. So there you go. Go to, go to jockofuel.com, get this stuff. Also, you can go to Vitamin Shoppe, you can go to Wawa, you can go to GNC, Military Commissaries, Afees, Hanaford, Dash Stores in Maryland, Wake Fern, Shop Right, HEB, Meyer, out there in the Midwest, HEB down there in Teos, Harris Teeter, Lifetime Fitness, Shields, small gyms. Hey, if you go to a gym, which I hope you're going to a gym, you're doing jiu-jitsu, you're doing CrossFit, you're doing weightlifting, you're doing yoga, could be doing yoga. If those gyms aren't selling Jocko Fuel and you want them to, tell the owner to email [email protected] and we'll get you set up. That way, on the way in, you have a go. On the way out, you grab a Hydrate.

• 3:38:52Jocko Willink?

  And then when you're in the car for the drive home, Molk rebuild. Got a plan for you. Chocofuel.com, go get some.

• 3:38:59Speaker 01

  Yep, it's true. Also, eh, we're doing jujitsu. If you don't have an Origin gi for jujitsu, get an Origin gi. Do yourself that favor. Best gis in the world, also made in America. One might think, you know, we're focused on jujitsu. We don't necessarily care about where the gi is made. We do care about where the gi is made. Because after the, after you get off the mat, there's still a world out there. You know, you want the world to be a good, fair, balanced place. I'm saying Origin, that's where they represent art. See what I'm saying?

• 3:39:29Jocko Willink?

  And you can get rash cards, you can get t-shirts, you can get truckers hats.

• 3:39:34Jocko Willink?

  You can get everything. You get jeans, blue jeans. So, go to originusa.com and support America. Support freedom. Never mind, America, support freedom. You might be over in Europe right now. You can't buy in Europe. Maybe there's, maybe they're not making jeans anywhere in England. Maybe they're not making jeans anywhere in Germany. It's okay. You don't need to buy them from China, slave labor. You can buy them

• 3:39:59Jocko Willink?

  from Origin USA. That's what we're doing. OriginUSA.com, go get some.

• 3:40:02Speaker 01

  It's true. Also, Choco has a store. If you want to represent discipline equals freedom while you're on this path, the idea of good, you want to represent, this is where you get it. ChocoStore.com. Some merch on there, some good stuff. Check it out. If you like something, get something. Also, speaking of liking something, subscription scenario, new design on a shirt every single month. Called the Shirt Locker.

• 3:40:24Jocko Willink?

  You, did you just post the deadlift video on YouTube?

• 3:40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:40:29Jocko Willink?

  Why, what made you decide to do that?

• 3:40:31Speaker 01

  Oh, cuz I, there is a campaign, like a email campaign. I was emailing everybody. Because over the years, Shirt Locker's been in service, whatever, in full swing for like two years already. So, you know, people will email, oh, I like this one. I, if you're a member, you can buy the past shirts. So people would be like, hey, when's this one coming back? You know, like an, just not a random one, but you know, one from a long time ago. Someone would be like, oh, when is Small coming back in stock or whatever? And they'll, a lot of the time anyway, they'll include, oh, I really like this one. I really like this one. And people, when I see them, I really like this one. So it's like, sorted itself out to have like a list of like the ones that everyone seemed to like the most. I call it Shirt Locker Favorites. That's what I called it.

• 3:41:14Speaker 01

  So I emailed people, everyone on the email list. That hey, these are the shirt locker favorites. So look, if they're in Christmas time, something like that, they want to buy one for their friend, for their wife, husband, brother, whatever.

• 3:41:27Jocko Willink?

  Is it illegal or immoral if I'm part of the shirt locker, but my wife isn't and I order a shirt and I give it to her?

• 3:41:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's kind of the whole gig. So that, no, it's not illegal. That's why I encourage that.

• 3:41:40Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 3:41:40Speaker 01

  See what I'm saying? And you can buy ones from the past is what I'm saying. So if you're a member, you can go in there and buy whatever. So that's why I posted that video. Because on the email, it had that video as well. So it included some of the shirt locker favorites in the whole comprehensive.

• 3:41:55Jocko Willink?

  Was it a little bit of a humble brag to like, put your big effects into it?

• 3:42:01Speaker 01

  Uh, I was very happy with the way the video turned out. You know, you performed very well in that video.

• 3:42:07Jocko Willink?

  Deadlifting. My shirt chain, go watch the video. Uh, there you go. So jockosore.com shirt locker. We got it going on. Also colorado craft beef.com or primalbeef.com. Look, Echo said, hey, he's what? Has steak in abundance.

• 3:42:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:42:22Jocko Willink?

  We can all have steak in abundance. So go to primalbeef.com, go to colorado craft beef.com and get yourself some steak. Some burgers, some beef, hot dogs. Get it. That's what we're doing. It'll ship to your door in a good frozen package. And you'll be able to eat. It'll be a beautiful thing. Uh, subscribe to the podcast, get jocko underground.com. It's a little separate podcast that we do. Can check that one out. It's also, we did that so we can have control over the platform. Just to make sure we don't get kicked off and don't have anywhere to go. We'll have somewhere to go always, the underground. YouTube, check those out. Psychological Warfare, flipsidecanvas.com, Dakota Meyer, bunch of books.

• 3:43:03Jocko Willink?

  Obviously you got Danica Patrick's books, Crossing the Line and Pretty Intense. You can get those. Also, I've written a bunch of books. If you want to get those books, go get them. That's all there is to it. I recommend you check out the kids books. Cause you're gonna have a, speaking of trajectory. Like, look, you can change the trajectory of your life right now and it'll be cool. It's gonna have an impact. But you change the trajectory of a kid's life and it changes so dramatically, everything. So get those warrior kid books, one, two, three, four, five. Also, Echelon Front, we have a leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership.

• 3:43:45Jocko Willink?

  So go to Echelonfront.com if you need help in your organization with anything, anything, anything that's going on in your organization that's not going the way you want it to go. It's a leadership problem. We solve problems through leadership. Echelonfront.com. Also, we have an online training academy that teaches you to take ownership of your life.

• 3:44:08Jocko Willink?

  So check that out, ExtremeOwnership.com. Also, if you want to help service members actively retired, you want to help their families, Gold Star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to AmericasMightyWarriors.org. Also, don't forget about Micah Fink. He's up in the mountains. Actually, right now, factually, he is gone dark. He texted me, he's like, hey, you're not going to hear from me for a month. I'll be off all electronic devices. He's probably right now gnawing on the femur of a bear.

• 3:44:45Speaker 01

  Sure, of course.

• 3:44:47Jocko Willink?

  Out in the wilderness. So check that out as well. Also, if you want to connect with Danica, once again, on the interwebs, she's got DanicaPatrick.com. And on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and Instagram, she's at Danica Patrick. She was, she was like in the time where she got it all, right? She got her, what's it called, her URL.

• 3:45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:45:10Jocko Willink?

  She got all of her handles.

• 3:45:12Speaker 01

  Yep, that's legit.

• 3:45:13Jocko Willink?

  That's hard to do this day and age.

• 3:45:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Especially with the, well, it depends on your name, I guess, right? But I got mine.

• 3:45:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Danica is a unique enough name, right?

• 3:45:27Speaker 01

  I think it's kind of at the border, though. Like to get everything, and that's just my opinion.

• 3:45:31Jocko Willink?

  But I think that's timing, right? Because she was around 2004, 2005. She just got each. So I wonder if she did that or if someone was savvy, you know? Be interesting. Hey, I have Jaco.com and I have at Jocko Willink, at Jocko Willink. It's the same on everything. The only thing that's a little bit confusing is Jocko Podcast, at Jocko Podcast on YouTube.

• 3:45:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know who has that one.

• 3:45:54Jocko Willink?

  You do. We do. That's ours is Jocko Podcast.

• 3:45:58Speaker 01

  It is?

• 3:45:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the YouTube channel.

• 3:45:59Speaker 01

  Okay, there you go.

• 3:46:02Speaker 01

  I thought it was Jocko Podcast official.

• 3:46:04Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 3:46:04Speaker 01

  But it could be.

• 3:46:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, you're probably right. So, there you go. If that's how you connect with Danica. Also, Echo is Echo Charles. I'm at Jocko Wang. Just watch out for the algorithm. Cause you heard me, like I, what I, I, my algorithm's just racked filled now.

• 3:46:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 3:46:20Jocko Willink?

  With Danica Patrick crashes.

• 3:46:22Speaker 01

  It's real.

• 3:46:22Jocko Willink?

  Danica Patrick victory. Danica Patrick yelling. Danica Patrick crashing. Like it's, that's all that's getting fed now. Danica Patrick interview. So the algorithm, it's tracking you.

• 3:46:38Jocko Willink?

  So just be careful. Don't get sucked into the algorithm. And thanks once again to Danica for joining us today, sharing her life lessons. And thanks to all the military personnel out there around the globe, putting yourselves in harms way to protect our way of life. We thank you. And also thanks to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, Secret Service, and all first responders. Thank you for serving and protecting us here at home. We are grateful. And everyone else out there, it's a scrap. It's a scrap. You can't expect anything to be given to you. You have to work for it. And even, here's the thing, even when you work for it,

• 3:47:22Jocko Willink?

  there's no guarantees. Even then, there are risks. But the biggest risk, the biggest risk there is, is not taking any risk at all. So,

• 3:47:35Jocko Willink?

  put your helmet on and go get after it. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko out.