260: Fighting, Fitness, and Binary Decision Making. The Path of Discipline Leads to Actual Freedom. DEF Field Manual MK1-MOD1.

0:00:00 - Opening 0:20:16 - The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual MK1-MOD1 1:57:06 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:06:40 - How to stay on THE PATH. 2:24:26 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 260 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo. Good evening.

• 0:10Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 0:12Jocko Willink?

  I was in my bedroom.

• 0:19Jocko Willink?

  Sitting on my bed and I was. Wrenching in pain.

• 0:29Jocko Willink?

  Or I guess the proper word is anguish. It had been two days. Since Seth died.

• 0:41Jocko Willink?

  And the, the five stages of grief were not kind to me.

• 0:49Jocko Willink?

  The first stage of grief denial was over in about 15 seconds.

• 0:58Jocko Willink?

  I've had so many friends die that.

• 1:04Jocko Willink?

  I know without question what it means.

• 1:10Jocko Willink?

  I know how quickly it comes.

• 1:13Jocko Willink?

  And I know that my friends in our line of work, including Seth.

• 1:22Jocko Willink?

  We dance with death all the time.

• 1:29Jocko Willink?

  And just a day prior, one of my friends and mentors in the SEAL Teams, Master Chief Mike Fakety had died.

• 1:39Jocko Willink?

  And all this was taking place right on the 11th anniversary of Mikey Monsour being killed in action in Ramadi on September 29th, 2006. So denial didn't last long.

• 1:55Jocko Willink?

  And neither did the, the so-called bargaining stage.

• 2:03Jocko Willink?

  Because I know there's no.

• 2:06Jocko Willink?

  There's no bargaining with death.

• 2:12Jocko Willink?

  I know what it is. I know it is irreversible, irrevocable, and I know it's 100% final.

• 2:25Jocko Willink?

  Which brought me to the next two stages.

• 2:31Jocko Willink?

  Which

• 2:34Jocko Willink?

  hit me at the same time, hard.

• 2:39Jocko Willink?

  Working together in unison to torment me. Anger and depression.

• 2:50Jocko Willink?

  So that's what I'm feeling, sitting there in agony and the walls are closing in and the darkness is taking over my brain and I can actually see it happening.

• 3:03Jocko Willink?

  I always talk about being detached, so I'm detached and I can see it happening and it doesn't feel like there's anything I can do about it.

• 3:14Jocko Willink?

  I see.

• 3:17Jocko Willink?

  I see hope and I see the the fun and the joy and the laughter and I see life circling the drain.

• 3:30Jocko Willink?

  And I know it's bad and I know.

• 3:34Jocko Willink?

  I know where that leads.

• 3:38Jocko Willink?

  I know that that's the beginning of the downward spiral.

• 3:46Jocko Willink?

  And I can feel my mind getting sucked into that vortex.

• 3:57Jocko Willink?

  And I don't know what to do.

• 4:04Jocko Willink?

  And and from my bed.

• 4:07Jocko Willink?

  You can see through the door to my office and I and I look into my office. And I see a book and it's a book that I actually wrote.

• 4:17Jocko Willink?

  The book that hadn't even been released yet. It was about to be released.

• 4:25Jocko Willink?

  But I had received my box of copies from the publisher and there was a stack of those books sitting on my desk.

• 4:40Jocko Willink?

  And I, I remembered. It was like my own book was talking to me because I remembered that I had written about death in that book. And, and when I had written about death,

• 4:55Jocko Willink?

  I had written it for other people.

• 4:59Jocko Willink?

  Because I'd experienced a lot of loss, lost a lot of friends.

• 5:05Jocko Willink?

  So I was writing about death so other people could learn from me because I felt like I was good and I knew how to handle death.

• 5:20Jocko Willink?

  Except at that moment in time, I wasn't handling it too well at all.

• 5:31Jocko Willink?

  So,

• 5:33Jocko Willink?

  I picked up the book.

• 5:38Jocko Willink?

  I picked up the book that I had written. I picked up the book and opened it to a section

• 5:47Jocko Willink?

  to read the words that I had written myself.

• 5:55Jocko Willink?

  And I read it.

• 6:01Jocko Willink?

  The section's called "Death."

• 6:07Jocko Willink?

  And it says, "How does good apply to the worst of losses, the death of a loved one?"

• 6:15Jocko Willink?

  It's easy to think that there's nothing good in death.

• 6:21Jocko Willink?

  But then I remember the people I have lost throughout my life.

• 6:26Jocko Willink?

  The memories of them, the experiences, the fun, their unique personalities and everything they gave me.

• 6:35Jocko Willink?

  Not only in their life, but in their death.

• 6:41Jocko Willink?

  What their life taught me and what their death taught me. The mark they had left on me.

• 6:53Jocko Willink?

  And I realized, there is good. Even in death, there is good. First of all, I was lucky enough to have had that person in my life, even if it was only for a short time, too short a time. At least I got that.

• 7:10Jocko Willink?

  Those, those moments, those precious moments, those unforgettable memories. At least I got those and got to experience those times to know the beauty of their personality, their attitude, their outlook on the world.

• 7:27Jocko Willink?

  They were all unique and I am thankful for the opportunity I had to interact with them.

• 7:38Jocko Willink?

  Now comes death. Death is horrible and death is wretched and death is cruel.

• 7:46Jocko Willink?

  And death isn't fair.

• 7:50Jocko Willink?

  And I don't know why the best people seem to be taken from us first.

• 7:57Jocko Willink?

  Death is also inescapable.

• 8:02Jocko Willink?

  There is no way out. No one gets out alive.

• 8:10Jocko Willink?

  Death is part of life, like the contrast between the darkness and the light.

• 8:21Jocko Willink?

  Without death,

• 8:24Jocko Willink?

  there is no life.

• 8:30Jocko Willink?

  And the people that I have lost, they taught me that.

• 8:38Jocko Willink?

  They taught me how precious life is, how blessed we are to have every day to learn, to grow, to laugh, to live.

• 8:50Jocko Willink?

  To live.

• 8:55Jocko Willink?

  To live every day with purpose and passion, to wake up in the morning and be thankful. Thankful for that morning. Thankful for that opportunity to go into the world and live.

• 9:12Jocko Willink?

  Live for them, for those that don't have the opportunity, for those who were stolen away by death's cruel hand.

• 9:25Jocko Willink?

  For them, I will live.

• 9:31Jocko Willink?

  I will revere their memory and I will live.

• 9:41Jocko Willink?

  So, let us cry no more. Let us mourn no more. Let us remember. But let us not dwell.

• 9:57Jocko Willink?

  Instead, let us laugh and love and let us embrace and venerate everything that life is and every opportunity it gives us. Let us live.

• 10:15Jocko Willink?

  For those who live no more.

• 10:21Jocko Willink?

  Let us live to honor them.

• 10:38Jocko Willink?

  And that's what I tried to do.

• 10:43Jocko Willink?

  And that's what I'm still trying to do.

• 10:53Jocko Willink?

  But I needed that bit of guidance from myself.

• 11:03Jocko Willink?

  And there's even more backstory here. Cause the book, the book was supposed to come out

• 11:12Jocko Willink?

  October 17th, 2017. That's when the book was being released. And, and for that release of the book, I had nine days of media scheduled in New York City with all the cable news networks and the syndicated radio interviews and the articles and the podcast interviews. And all the stuff was set up and scheduled so people would hear about the book.

• 11:38Jocko Willink?

  And of course, all this stuff is what the publisher and the publicist sets up because they're trying to sell the book. And it's the big chance to get on the New York Times bestseller list and the Wall Street Journal bestseller list and the USA Today list and the Amazon list and all that. And of course, I, I know that because of the situation, none of this is going to happen.

• 12:01Jocko Willink?

  I know that I have to take care of my friend. I have to see him off and I need to take care of his mom and his dad and his brother and his sister.

• 12:12Jocko Willink?

  So the entire nine days of media got completely canceled. I did zero.

• 12:22Jocko Willink?

  Didn't even do my own podcast about this book. In fact, that's the only week where this podcast did not come out.

• 12:36Jocko Willink?

  And I went to three memorial services for Seth and to his burial at Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery. There was a, there was a memorial service in San Diego for the teams.

• 12:51Jocko Willink?

  There was one in Houston, his hometown for his Texas friends and family. And there was one in Hawaii, which was the location of the unit that he was attached to when he died.

• 13:08Jocko Willink?

  And I had the honor of escorting his mom throughout all these events as he Seth had requested in a letter he had sent in case he died.

• 13:29Jocko Willink?

  And we saw him off as best we could.

• 13:36Jocko Willink?

  Including going surfing.

• 13:42Jocko Willink?

  And including setting something on fire at dusk, which he had also requested in that letter. And we burned what was left of an old surfboard that Seth had given to my son, which my, my son had broken.

• 13:58Jocko Willink?

  And we also burned an old guitar of mine that could not be tuned.

• 14:05Jocko Willink?

  At least no one could tune it except for Seth. Somehow he could tune it, but no one else could. So it was of no use anymore. So we set them aflame in a giant bonfire on the beach near our favorite surf spot.

• 14:21Jocko Willink?

  And we pushed the burning surfboard out to sea Viking style.

• 14:32Jocko Willink?

  And we said goodbye.

• 14:40Jocko Willink?

  But we will remember.

• 14:53Jocko Willink?

  Now, what made me think about all this is that the other day I got asked a question. Someone asked me, what's your favorite mantra?

• 15:08Jocko Willink?

  And of course, when I, when I think of mantras,

• 15:12Jocko Willink?

  I think of the generic and I guess cheesy is the word, for lack of a better word. Mantras that you hear, if you can believe it, you can achieve it, or, or, you know, failure is part of the road to success, or whatever, whatever those things are.

• 15:33Jocko Willink?

  The standard kind of mantras, nothing against them, but they're not really, they're not really my thing. So this person asked me, what's my favorite mantra? And I say, you know, I'm not, I'm not really into the whole mantra thing. I don't really say anything to myself. I just, I just do what I do. And this was on a call. And, and Jamie, who is the operations director at Echelon Front, and she's also an instructor, and she was on the call as well. And she kind of chimed in to tighten me up with my answer.

• 16:01Jocko Willink?

  She said, um, she said Jaco? She said, everything you say is a mantra. You speak in mantras. Maybe not to yourself, but to the rest of us. You speak in mantras. And I thought about that for about a quarter of a second, and I realized that she was absolutely right.

• 16:21Jocko Willink?

  Discipline equals freedom. Yes, that's a mantra. And I absolutely live by that.

• 16:28Jocko Willink?

  Good. That's a mantra. Stay on the path. That's a mantra.

• 16:35Jocko Willink?

  And not only do I say these things, but I actually wrote a book filled with these mantras. And the title of the book is actually The Mantra Itself. Discipline Equals Freedom.

• 16:49Jocko Willink?

  And not only that,

• 16:53Jocko Willink?

  but I realized

• 16:57Jocko Willink?

  that even though I'm saying, oh, you don't need a mantra, I need them. At least sometimes.

• 17:05Jocko Willink?

  Sometimes,

• 17:09Jocko Willink?

  like I had when Seth died, I needed to hear, or I needed to read my own words to get me through, to figure out where to go, to figure out what to do.

• 17:30Jocko Willink?

  Well, the rest of the cool part of the backstory is that when the book came out, it came out with no media at all. It still made all those lists because you all supported it, but I never covered it on the podcast. And I never explained what it actually is, what the book is, where it came from. And I just released a new version of it. So I figured I'd better tell you. And what the book is, is it's like an operating system. Well, I guess it's like my operating system. And I originally wrote it. I originally wrote it because people were asking me the same questions all the time about the same subjects, about jujitsu and about

• 18:14Jocko Willink?

  diet and about workouts and how to overcome obstacles or how to handle defeat or failure or whatever, all the same questions. And so I said, you know what, I'm just gonna, my original plan was, and I said it on the podcast, and I still get, I still get messages about this. What I said on the podcast is that, look, you all are asking me a bunch of these questions. I'm just gonna publish a quick ebook. I'll get it together in a few weeks and get it out there. And so I actually told my publisher, hey, I'm gonna publish a little ebook about the stuff. And my publisher said, no, no, please don't do that. Do not publish an ebook. He said, you just, you just were the number one New York Times bestselling author. You don't publish an ebook. Well, what I told him was, well, sorry, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna

• 18:57Jocko Willink?

  just do this as an ebook because I don't want you to tell me what has to be in there, or how long it has to be, or what it needs to look like, or any of that stuff. I want to do whatever I want to do. And the only way I can do whatever I want to do is if I just do it myself. And I was looking into how we were gonna get this thing printed. So I had a vision in my mind. I knew what I wanted the book to be. And my publisher, to his credit, and maybe to his own possible mistake, said, I will publish whatever you want. And I said, really? And he said, whatever you want. So.

• 19:36Jocko Willink?

  That's what this book is. It's not a normal book. If you haven't seen it before, it's not a normal book. The way it's written, the format of it, the way it's laid out, the, I guess, what is it? The color of the pages?

• 19:52Jocko Willink?

  It's just a different, it's a whole different scenario of a book. And, well, I guess if we wanna learn a little bit about the book. There is a visual impact to the book. Echo Charles, is there?

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Yes, there is.

• 20:09Jocko Willink?

  It's, and it's really hard to print. You know, because instead of being white pages with like simple black letters, there's all these images in the background of every single page. Most of the images are black and then the writing is almost all in white. So it's, it's a different book, has a different visual impact. It's cool. Some people send me pictures of, they'll just have this book sitting somewhere.

• 20:35Jocko Willink?

  You know, just kinda have it in its posish. So, so let's go to the book. I'll, I'll, I'll read through some of the stuff. The, the, the opening section is called the way of discipline.

• 20:50Jocko Willink?

  People look for the shortcut, the hack, and if you came here looking for that, you won't find it. The shortcut is a lie. The hack doesn't get you there. And if you wanna take the easy road, it won't take you where you wanna be. Stronger, smarter, faster, healthier, better, free.

• 21:10Jocko Willink?

  To reach goals and overcome obstacles and be the best version of you possible will not happen by itself.

• 21:18Jocko Willink?

  It will not happen, cutting corners, taking shortcuts, or looking for the easy way. There is no easy way. There is only hard work, late nights, early mornings, practice, rehearsal, repetition, study, sweat, blood, toil, frustration, and discipline.

• 21:39Jocko Willink?

  Discipline, there must be discipline. Discipline, the root of all good qualities, the driver of daily execution, the core principle that overcomes laziness and lethargy and excuses. Discipline defeats the infinite excuses that say, "Not today. Not now. I need a rest. I will do it tomorrow."

• 22:07Jocko Willink?

  What's the hack? How do you become stronger, smarter, faster, healthier? How do you become better? How do you achieve true freedom? There is only one way. The way of discipline.

• 22:22Jocko Willink?

  So that's the opening of the book. You know, this is not, there's not a, this is not a verbose book. You don't get paid by the word.

• 22:34Jocko Willink?

  Like the old newspaper writers, they used to get paid by the word. I'm not getting paid by the word.

• 22:40Jocko Willink?

  Trying to say what I'm trying to say. That's it. So, so that, that is from the first section of this book. And the first section of this book is called Thoughts. And then the second section is called Actions. And the action sections includes three parts. One is fuel. One is, one is repair and maintenance. And one is the workouts. So, let me give you some more of these thoughts. This one's called overcoming procrastination.

• 23:17Jocko Willink?

  When and where to start?

• 23:20Jocko Willink?

  People want to know how to stop laziness. They want to know how to stop procrastination. They have an idea in their head, maybe even a vision. But they don't know where to start. So they ask, and they say, "Where do I start? When is the best time to start?" And I have a simple answer, here and now.

• 23:40Jocko Willink?

  That's it. You want to improve? You want to get better? You want to get on a workout program or a clean diet? Or start a new business? You want to write a book or make a movie or build a house or a computer or an app? Where do you start? You start right here. When do you start? You start right now. You initiate action. You go. Here is the reality. The idea isn't going to execute itself. That book isn't going to write itself. Those weights out in the gym, they aren't going to move themselves. You have to do it. And you have to do it now.

• 24:18Jocko Willink?

  So stop thinking about it. Stop dreaming about it. Stop researching every aspect of it and reading all about it and debating the pros and cons of it. Start doing it.

• 24:29Jocko Willink?

  Take that first step and make it happen. Get after it here and now.

• 24:37Jocko Willink?

  You've been kind of getting after it lately, haven't you?

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 24:40Jocko Willink?

  You made a goal, you were telling me. You have goals. Is this, when's it, is this, is this kind of a new?

• 24:47Speaker 01

  I think it's, it was a progressive kind of thing. It started with kind of certain things, you know? Remember I told you I got a not a journal, but a, what do you call it? Like a planner?

• 24:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you got the day planner.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Planner. Yeah. And I've tried the planner thing many times, but not like the one that you actually write in with a pencil.

• 25:08Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  You know, the kind like online. I got my digital on my phone, you know?

• 25:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's a weird thing. There's a weird thing that happens when you go physical.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  I, I agree. Yes. For me, that was the case for sure. Cause some people, that's how like if you go did, they got their cool app, organizer app, whatever, and it, and it works apparently. You know, a lot of people use it. So, you know, you can't kind of can't refute that. Yeah. But it didn't work for me. Like it didn't stick at all many, many times, you know? I even did it on my computer where I was like, oh, I'm gonna, and I'm gonna leave it on the desktop so I can always see it. And still like, it worked for certain things, but not for like

• 25:44Jocko Willink?

  Not for like making a bunch of videos for this podcast.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  But it was stuff that I would always have to revisit mentally, you know? And I'd be like, okay, it's open. Okay, there it is. There it is there. But no, yeah, not for plans. So I got a planner and a pencil, a special pencil for the planner.

• 25:59Jocko Willink?

  Oh, mechanical pencil. Yep, I'm a big mechanical pencil guy.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz you can write, you can write super small if you need to, like, man, yeah, it's good. And then you can erase it or whatever. Anyway, so it started with that like months ago, almost a year, really. And, and that helped.

• 26:13Jocko Willink?

  It's interesting, as I read this book, you know, right now, and as I was reviewing it, I was thinking about you because you've been kind of like almost involuntarily put on the path. I guess it's like, I mean, you've just been overexposed. I mean, just, there's no way for you to kind of not, I mean, you're sitting here for hundreds and hundreds of hours.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:34Jocko Willink?

  So your life has transformed in many ways.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, big time. It's funny. Okay, here's a quick story, not deviate too much, but I'm gonna. So my daughter, she's the kind like, she likes certain things and then certain things she just straight up doesn't like. So you make her start running laps hard, she don't like that kind of stuff. So we, so we took her, um, you know, it was, it was my nephew slash son. We took him to a running coach. And he, and this coach has a group of kids, all varying levels, all the way up until like guys getting full ride scholarships to like Oregon for lacrosse, like the, like high level athlete.

• 27:15Jocko Willink?

  Is he a good runner?

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Who, the coach?

• 27:17Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Who, oh, Jase?

• 27:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  On, we don't know. That's the thing. We don't know. So we, you know, and he had some friends in there and stuff like that. So they were like, hey, come see this coach and all this stuff. Former Marine, by the way, older guy. And, uh, and there's a bunch of kids there and they're all doing their thing. So I'm like, yeah, let's throw my daughter in there too. She's seven, but young kid, you know? And there are a couple of other young boys in there, eightish, you know? And I'm like, she's not gonna like this. If this is hard conditioning, like track practice, which it was, by the way. Um, it's, it's she not gonna like this stuff. She's gonna be whatever. And she did start crying at one point, but she did everything. That's the thing. Okay. So the point is how I wound up on the path, even though I gotta admit, like, I've always wanted to like, improve, but let's face it, I go with the wave, man.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  And, uh, and sometimes beneficial, some, and a lot of times not for sure, but I watched her. And she was nervous. She was not used to this kind of like intensity, you know? And this guy is, he, the coach, he's really cool, man. He's, he's, but he's not mellow. He's making jokes. He's putting you down. All jokes. You can totally tell, but you know, she didn't know what to make of that. And so, but meanwhile, all the kids are listening. So he's like, go run now, you know, this guy's and the kids are just going. So she has kind of no choice but to follow the wave, you know? If it was me and her by herself, at any given moment, she'll be like, wait, I don't want to do that.

• 28:44Jocko Willink?

  I don't want to do that.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but when everyone else is doing it, her whole, at that moment, environment is just react or moving, but you get caught up in that wave.

• 28:54Jocko Willink?

  It's kind of interesting because you, you, you use the same metaphor for both. For, for two opposite things. You said, well, you know, I, I want to get better, but you know, sometimes it's kind of go with the wave, right?

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 29:06Jocko Willink?

  And now all of a sudden you're saying that in this situation, depending on the direction of the wave, the wave is going in a good direction. You kind of get caught in that. That's what I feel like you, you know, you hanging out with me for the last five years, by the way, of just the podcast, because we've been hanging out for a lot longer than that. And look, let's face it, you had a lot of elements of, of discipline and hard work. I mean, you, you know, you played football. Obviously you got to hard work to do that. You know, you were, you're awesome at jujitsu. You're a, you know, you, you obviously work out hard. So you have like some aspects in your life that were real kind of strong. Some other aspects of your life. We had some areas, right?

• 29:43Speaker 01

  We could improve.

• 29:44Jocko Willink?

  We had some areas that maybe you needed a little bit, a little bit more on the path. They wanted to kind of ride a different wave.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:51Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, it's cool.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, that wave is powerful. Like, you know how they say, and there's, there's a bunch of cool, quote unquote, cool taglines where it's like, oh, you, your network is your net worth and like all this. And basically, they're all saying-

• 30:03Jocko Willink?

  See, that's when somebody asked me like, what's your favorite mantra? I started thinking of all those things and I was like, ah, you know what? I'm not gonna get, I'm not gonna get here. And Jamie was like, she typed me up, she's like, hey, Jaco, everything you say is a mantra. I'm like, she's like, you might not, you might not think it, but we all think it.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 30:19Jocko Willink?

  And I was like, yeah, check.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  And th- those mantras, even the quote unquote cheesy ones, they all root, the, the root of all of them are legitimate.

• 30:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they're not untrue.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:27Jocko Willink?

  And some of them are absolutely like, yes, 100%.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And these network is your net, network and like, show me your five friends, I'll show you your future or whatever. Like all that, they're all saying the same thing. It's kind of like your environment is this big wave that's going to influence you and you're going to be riding that thing. And you can fight against it, you can ride with it, you can do whatever you want to do, but, but that's a wave.

• 30:49Jocko Willink?

  You might want to pick the right wave.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  But if you pick the right wave, you're good. But me, in this case, I kind of in a way didn't really pick any wave at all. I essentially rode one wave right into another wave and luckily that wave was going in the right direction and it was huge. It is huge. So, yeah, and I was down for it. So, yeah, man, I'm riding it and, you know, trying to do the right things for sure. And yes, very, very beneficial.

• 31:12Jocko Willink?

  Check. Uh, this next section, um, I'm gonna jump through a bunch of these real quick, but this one's called, "The Person You Can Control."

• 31:23Jocko Willink?

  People are not who you want them to be. Kill your idols. Sure, there are things we can learn from people, but people aren't going to be what you think they are, what they should be. People, even those people you have put on a pedestal are going to be faulted, weak, egomaniacal, condescending. They are going to be lazy, entitled, shortsighted. They will be, they will not be perfect, far from it. That's fine.

• 31:52Jocko Willink?

  Learn from their weaknesses. Of course, learn from their strengths and mimic and copy them in what they do well. But equally as important, learn from their faults. See what not to do. Because you can't control other people. You can't make them what you want them to be. You can't make them who you want them to be. The only person you can control is you. So focus on making yourself who you want to be faster, stronger, smarter, more humble, less ego, discipline your body, free your mind. Get up early and go. Get after it and you will become the person you want to be.

• 32:32Jocko Willink?

  And you become that person through one small decision at a time.

• 32:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, as you can see, this is a book of mantras.

• 32:47Jocko Willink?

  And then, but it's not all that. It's also, there's also some, you know, there's actually a bunch of pragmatic information. Here's one section like that. Stress. First of all, and I don't mean to minimize the stress people face, but imagine what Eugene Sledge went through on Peleliu and the tens of thousands of Marines there who suffered unimaginable horror. Imagine what David Hackworth, imagine David Hackworth assaulting enemy positions in Korea, wounded over and over again, on the line, still going back for more. Imagine the poet warrior Alan Seeger in World War I, getting ready to go over the top and make his rendezvous with death.

• 33:28Jocko Willink?

  Imagine the thousands of warriors who have gone before you, who have stood and faced evil and death.

• 33:36Jocko Willink?

  And now imagine you.

• 33:39Jocko Willink?

  I used to do this myself while in Iraq facing stress. Yes, we took casualties and yes, it was awful and heartbreaking and every bit as wretched as I could imagine, but warriors have faced much, much worse. The Battle of the Somme or Gettysburg or the Battle of the Bulge or the Chosens Reservoir. Humans can withstand almost inconceivable stress.

• 34:02Jocko Willink?

  And you can too.

• 34:06Jocko Willink?

  So that is your first step, gain perspective. And to do that, you must do something critical in many situations. Detach whatever problems or stress you are experiencing, detach from them. Stress is generally caused by what you can't control. The worst thing about incoming artillery fire is you can't control it. It is happening and you just have to accept it. Don't stress about things you can't control. If the stress is something that you can control and you are not, that is a lack of discipline and a lack of ownership. Get control of it, impose your will to make it happen. Solve the problem, relieve the stress. If the stress is something you can't control,

• 34:51Jocko Willink?

  embrace it. You can't control it, but how can you look at it from a different angle? How can you use it to your advantage? I couldn't control the chaos of combat. I had to embrace it. I had to figure out a way to take advantage of it. Make it into your ally. So don't fight stress. Embrace it, turn it on itself. Use it to make yourself sharper and more alert. Use it to make you think and learn and get better and smarter and more effective. Use the stress to make you better.

• 35:26Jocko Willink?

  This is one, this is one that, you know, I kind of have to go over this one. And it's, it's again, there's a bunch of these and they're all very short like this or within these types of lengths. It's the kind of thing you can read for three minutes before you start your day, before you work out, before you go to bed at night. Maybe that might not be the best idea because if you read, you know, you might start getting the ideas in your head and I have a real problem with that. Like I have ideas in my head. If I have ideas in my head, do you have your, do you ever can't sleep? Does that ever happen to you?

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Why you gotta look at me like that?

• 36:04Jocko Willink?

  I just wondered.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Is that a thing?

• 36:06Jocko Willink?

  Cause it doesn't seem like you'd be like coming at me with like, I have a lot of trouble sleeping.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 36:10Jocko Willink?

  It seems like you would fully embrace sleeping like I might embrace stress.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. Uh, yeah, the answer is quite, yeah, yeah, man. For that reason, for sure. Like, you get a cool idea, and you can't wait. Like, I can't wait to see, yeah, a cool idea.

• 36:26Jocko Willink?

  The thing that's kind of cool about you, though, is if you get a good idea at midnight, you can just get up and start working on it and sleep until ten.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 36:34Jocko Willink?

  No factor. Me, I got, like, you have...

• 36:39Jocko Willink?

  I, I, I'm, I think you don't have any schedule, really, of any kind.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Not as far as regular schedules go, no. No, I don't.

• 36:50Jocko Willink?

  So, other people have things that they have to do in life on a daily basis.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  I understand, yeah.

• 36:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so, so this one, um... The, this is not the kind of things that you want to read, like, right before you go to bed. Maybe, because for me, what happens, it's the weirdest thing. It's, I've, I've never done a psychedelic drug before, but it kind of feels like a psychedelic drug where my mind is going down paths. Like, I'm thinking about something and I can feel it. Like, you know what, like, a special, like, an old-school special effect when you go through some, like, space tunnel, or like a space-time tunnel?

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Some wormhole?

• 37:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, some wormhole scenarios, right? So, I'll be doing that, and I'll, and then, all of a sudden, it'll go like a roller coaster off to a side and go down, I'll, I'll go down some other, what'd you call it? I'll go down some other wormhole of thought, but then it just branches off and it just keeps going. So, my, it's like I'm going a thousand miles an hour inside my own head. And you, there's no way I can sleep.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can see how that could be.

• 37:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it, it's, it's a bummer. So, I would say, use a little caution if you're gonna read them before you go to bed. I would more read them in the morning, I would more, you know, read them during the day, have the book sitting out, have it, you know, like, in a place where you're thinking about it. And you can pick it up sometimes. Here's, here's, here's one called "Compromise." "When working with other people and dynamic situations and relationships and deals, a person, especially a leader, must compromise, finding the common ground between teams, merging different approaches to the same problem, bridging personalities with people who might not get along, reaching agreements and courses of action. All these require compromise. And in many cases, a failure to compromise is a failure to succeed."

• 38:38Jocko Willink?

  So, so, it's important, because, you know, a lot of times, people might... Well, not even Mike. A lot of times people have the impression to me there's no compromise. When the reality is like, oh, what do you want to do? That sounds like a good idea. Let's move in that direction. As a leader, you actually have to do that. A good leader does that. A good leader compromises to a lot of things, right? Of course, you're gonna have principles and values that you can't compromise. But those should be small. Well, not small, they're huge, but they should be a small number of things. So going back to the book, but those are external compromises with other people, other humans, that have their own personalities and ethos and issues. And compromise is needed in order to unify.

• 39:22Jocko Willink?

  So to work with them, compromise is a must. But internally, it's different. With myself, I have to hold the line. There are areas within myself where I cannot compromise. I am going to work hard. I am going to train hard. I am going to improve myself. I am going, I am not going to rest on my laurels. I'm going to own my mistakes and confront them. I am going to face my demons. I am not going to give up or give out or give in. I am going to stand.

• 39:55Jocko Willink?

  I am going to maintain my self-discipline. And on those points, there will be no compromise. Not now, not ever.

• 40:08Jocko Willink?

  So, reading that right before I go to sleep, probably not gonna do it because then I'd probably be doing burpees in the corner of the room.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:16Jocko Willink?

  Ton of, ton of these things, you know, I'm gonna skip through a bunch of them right now. There's one that I like in here. It's called binary code. I know you like that because you're a computer expert.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, sure. Expert, hell, yeah.

• 40:29Jocko Willink?

  Jade, Jade likes this one.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Jade likes this one, yeah.

• 40:32Jocko Willink?

  It says, "Machines make their decisions based on binary code, yes or no."

• 40:38Jocko Willink?

  It is not complicated. Are you going to work out? Yes or no? Are you going to get up? Yes or no? Are you gonna get off the couch? Yes or no? Are you going to eat that donut? Yes or no? This is not complicated.

• 40:52Jocko Willink?

  And sometimes you have to put yourself into this mode, binary decision making. Are you going to be weak or strong? Are you going to be healthy or unhealthy? Are you going to improve your life? Are you going to make it worse? Are you going to sacrifice long-term success for short-term gratification?

• 41:14Jocko Willink?

  You know the right answers. You know the right decisions. Don't overcomplicate.

• 41:21Jocko Willink?

  Binary decision making, make the right decisions.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  That's your whole deal right there.

• 41:29Jocko Willink?

  It's kind of, it's kind of a big part, you know?

• 41:31Speaker 01

  That mode, and it's more about yourself though, I think, like with other people.

• 41:36Jocko Willink?

  That's the thing. That's the thing that's so strange about this is this stuff rings so true in my head for me. But like with other people as a leader, interacting in relationships, like this doesn't work.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's weird. But yeah, when it comes to stuff that like you're talking, to be honest, like, like with me, like even just like the look, you know, like if, you know, I tend to from time to time or whatever, go down certain over explanations and like all this stuff, whatever. And you're looking at me with a zero, like a straight up zero, almost like it's literally not.

• 42:12Jocko Willink?

  What's a zero?

• 42:13Speaker 01

  You know, you got the one and you got the zero.

• 42:15Jocko Willink?

  Oh, I see what you're saying.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Positive, value, negative, I'm assuming, I don't know.

• 42:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, got it, got it.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Um, and.

• 42:20Jocko Willink?

  The value of your statement is zero. I got it.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  You're literally looking at me like that, kind of like, oh yeah, and here's the thing though, that's real beneficial too though. And that's part of this whole wave, I think, anyway, where, you know, I'm over here, you know, we're all in our own head from time to time, if not all the time or whatever. And then it's good to have that little reflective like situation where I'm saying what's in my head to see how it sort of lands on the outside world and.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  Well, that thing is literally like not computing at all. You're like, alright, well, I guess I can do away with that thought, you know, kind of thing. And then, you know, sometimes you'll have like a reaction that's okay, that's maybe viable, whatever. And after a while, all those zeros and ones sort of kind of formulate a little, little line of code, you know, and then we can go do some things, you know, kind of thing. And, and that's kind of like the influence. But it's interesting how that you put it in that book where you got to get in that mode because you can't be like that with everything, you know? But bro, sometimes you just get in that mode and you're like, alright, like especially with the workouts. I mean, that's an obvious one where you're like, bro, you're gonna work out or not? And if you're like later, oh, okay, so no, then are you gonna work out right now? Because that's what the plan was, or that's what you were trying to do or whatever, right?

• 43:33Speaker 01

  And then if you're like, well, I'm not, it's like, oh, it's real clear, you know? So yeah, man, if you can get in that mode when you need to.

• 43:41Jocko Willink?

  Either yes or no. And you, and that's the thing, I think to, to compliment what you're saying. When, when you take all that gray area out.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:52Jocko Willink?

  You know, this is the important thing. When you take the gray area out, you know what the right answer is, right? You can make a lot of things that make it seem like there's a whole bunch of different options there, but there's really only two options. You're either gonna work out or you're not.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:04Jocko Willink?

  And all these other little things that you're thinking, they're, they're not, they're just, they're just, they're just junk, right? They're just junk.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. That gray area, as you mentioned, it's like, there's so much danger in there. There's so much oil and slippery stuff in there, but leave that, leave that out, man. So like, okay, the workout, right? Well, it's a big gray area you can throw in there. I'll do it later. That's one, right? Because the fact is you can do it later and get it done straight up.

• 44:32Jocko Willink?

  Kind of.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  You know, you got something super important, like that's a possibility, you know? But you start throwing that, that in there, it's like, oh, man, that becomes dangerous because I would say if, if. Considering that I'm a normal person, if I throw in the idea of I'll do it later, the chance of me doing it later goes down way more if compared to if I just say, hey, did it, am I gonna do it now or am I not gonna do it? Am I gonna do it or not gonna do it?

• 44:59Jocko Willink?

  So wait a second, explain that to me. So if you say, if you had three choices, do it now, do it later, don't do it. The easiest pick is kinda do it later, right? But do it later doesn't lead to execution.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Doesn't lead, yeah, it doesn't directly lead to execution.

• 45:15Jocko Willink?

  What's your percentage of, when you say you'll do it later, what's the percentage of execution later?

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Well, now we're going deeper because do it later, what does that actually mean? How later? In an hour later?

• 45:26Jocko Willink?

  Let's say in a, in a, in a window of time that could still be considered part of this scenario.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes, I do. I would say a maximum, uh, so my later, we gotta establish that later as opposed to tomorrow. Cause that's just, you miss the workout.

• 45:44Jocko Willink?

  Later is definitely, I mean, in this scenario for a workout, we're definitely talking about today.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Same day.

• 45:49Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, that's usually like a three, four, five, six hour window. So if I can, so the percentage of me doing it later, it's weird cause you know how maps kind of form in your mind? So if I don't get it done in the morning, like before noon.

• 46:03Jocko Willink?

  Cause you wanna get your lunch.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Or what, yeah.

• 46:05Jocko Willink?

  Wait, do you, do you work out on an empty stomach?

• 46:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the norm is I don't eat nothing until.

• 46:14Jocko Willink?

  The workout is done.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Dinner time.

• 46:15Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Dinner and then late dinner, that's sorta it.

• 46:18Jocko Willink?

  Wait, did you say dinner and late dinner? So two dinners?

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:21Jocko Willink?

  I didn't, you never shared this with me, bruh.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then the pre-go-to-bed dinner. That's the deal.

• 46:28Jocko Willink?

  Interesting.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Um, but the window, how the window goes and it's just a schedule that established itself in my mind is a workout during the day or during the morning. If I don't do that, it's a 4:30 workout, pretty much 4:30 across the board.

• 46:42Jocko Willink?

  That's cool. So you put a little deadline on yourself. Kind of. That kind of becomes binary, right? It's either now or it's at 4:30.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:48Jocko Willink?

  That's kind of a good, good program.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:50Jocko Willink?

  What happens at 4:30?

• 46:51Speaker 01

  I, I work out.

• 46:52Jocko Willink?

  You get it done. So you, so you're saying get it done later, actually you do a good percentage of getting it done later.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you make a really good point because technically I did go binary in almost like a second level binary situation, which starts to become less and less binary for sure.

• 47:07Jocko Willink?

  It's either now or 4:30.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I kinda.

• 47:10Jocko Willink?

  For me, 4:30 means a different, it means 12 hours prior.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Four thirty in the morning. Yeah. But yeah, man. But again, if and I do this naturally and it's good to have these kinds like this book or whatever, just sort of pointed out for you where if I don't get it, if I'm not prepping the workout, drinking water out there, shoes on, blah, blah, blah. If I'm, if that's not happening between four and four thirty, if I get to four forty five, five, if it's past five, it probably won't happen just because there's other things that the household kind of needs me for, you know?

• 47:44Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's so cool that your mind can be so easily reset. Like you're like, oh, I've got this book. Like if you pick this book up and you're reading it, you're gonna get it done, right? I mean, you're, you're, you're, it's gonna hit you. It's gonna hit you. You're, you're gonna think to yourself, you know what? That's correct. I need to go do this. I need to control myself. I need to make this happen. I need to go and execute. I need to, I, I need to go into binary mode and make this happen. Like you have so much influence over your brain. That's so good if you put your brain on the right wave. Cause if you put it on the right wave, you're gonna go places. If you put it in the wrong wave, we're going down, down the wrong place, man. We're going in a bad way.

• 48:29Jocko Willink?

  So you're, and, and it's incredible that you can so easily put your, well, here's the difference. You can put your, it takes a small bit of effort. You pick up the book, this book, you read it, right? You're like, gonna go get something. That took a small amount of effort, very small amount of effort, and it puts you on the right path. What's strange is if you don't do anything, we know where it goes, right? It just kind of, the other wave is just kind of there, just always just pulling at you, just dragging you down. Always. It's just constantly there.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, the wave analogy is really good, really spot on because like if you're in the ocean, right? You're going this way, you're going that way, you're going there. Every once in a while, you catch a current, you know, go, you know, kind of in this direction for a significant amount of time or whatever or distance and then, but right, if you get on one of those waves, bro, you're going full speed.

• 49:19Jocko Willink?

  You know what? Too. You can get caught in a rip current that's pulling you out to sea like in a bad way, right? You go down the downward spiral of horribleness, addiction and savagery, right?

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yep. It's true. Um, but I've always looked at this book as like, I mean, it seems like a field, like a for real manual. You know how like, okay.

• 49:42Jocko Willink?

  It's called a field manual.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Exactly right. So you know how like if, if your car has a, I don't know, check engine light or, you know, whatever, some issue with your car and you're not, you know, super well versed in like auto mechanics, whatever. And you're like, hey, man, I better look into this. I got a small issue with my car. I gotta know how to solve this issue. Where do you go? Freaking owner's manual. Or a mechanic, but whatever. Let's say if you needed some answers, you go to the manual, you know? That manual is for your car, straight up. You can go on the internet for sure, but you go to the manual, you're gonna get the answer for your question or whatever. It's directly, directly linked to your issue with your specific car. This manual, if you regard that as your manual, for not necessarily your physical, but, but for how you are gonna be.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Those answers are for you, then oh yeah, all day. Because, you know, it's easy to go on the internet, the gram, right? I'm gonna follow an inspirational person, you know, and maybe that applies to me, maybe it doesn't. And then after a while, it's all just sort of like, yeah, I heard that before. Cool saying. Let me go back to what I was doing, kind of a thing. And it sort of doesn't land anymore. But if you regard, again, like this book for you, like you need, and you say, you know, just how you said a second ago, where you can just, just pick it up and just read part of it, you know? For a minute or whatever. That, that answer, whatever you read, that is for you.

• 51:05Jocko Willink?

  Isn't it crazy though, that like, and that's what, that's what, one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about this is because, like that whole thing with Seth, like I needed my own book. I needed to go to the owner's manual.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:17Jocko Willink?

  I needed that myself. I wrote these words. I contemplated them. I lived through them. I garnered the experience. And then at the moment, in time, I actually needed to go to this manual and say, what am I supposed to do right now?

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly right.

• 51:37Jocko Willink?

  And that, there's all kinds of, I mean, that's an extreme example. But you know, even as I read like the binary code thing, it's like, yes. Oh, yeah. How easy is it to just go in that other wave over there that's kind of going to a horrible, you know, lame, weak place?

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Filled with gray excuses and justifications. If you're good at justifying stuff, gray all day. You know, not black and white anymore.

• 52:02Jocko Willink?

  So that's, that's what the, that's what the thoughts, and there's a, there's a bunch of these more in this, the, the, the new field manual, that's the difference is I added a bunch more of into this thought section about mind control, about weakness and about destroyer mode and about the application of discipline, about the fear of failure, and about what to do when you're not feeling it and what, what to do when you get overwhelmed and how to detach and how to handle defeat and just all these things that we need help with, that I need help with, that we as human beings need help with. A bunch of stuff in there that you can pick up and that will keep you on the path.

• 52:40Jocko Willink?

  But as we know, thoughts only go so far, right? We have to take action, which is the next section of the book. It is called Actions. And, and the first little section in Actions is physical training. Subtitle, Getting After It.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 52:56Jocko Willink?

  Physical training, back to the book. There are all kinds of benefits from physical training. You will be healthier. This is a fact. By working out, you will increase your endorphins, testosterone, growth hormones, cardiac valium, insulin sensitivity, and natural killer cells. Those changes will help prevent or treat the following health issues. High blood pressure, obesity, heart disease, type 2 diabetes, insomnia, and depression. Boom.

• 53:21Jocko Willink?

  Still not convinced? Working out will make you smarter. Yes, smarter. It improves blood flow to the brain. It boosts growth hormones that promote growth of new nerve cells. It improves synaptic plasticity. The ability for neurons to send and receive messages. It releases brain chemicals that help cognition, like dopamine, glutamate, norepinephrine, and serotonin. It also boosts the production of brain-derived neurotropic factor, a protein that helps with mental processes.

• 53:59Jocko Willink?

  But don't just take my word for it. Go do get some exercise done and pay attention to your mental state. You will feel more aware, sharper and smarter. This is real.

• 54:12Jocko Willink?

  There you go. This is like, oh, why do you want to physically? Why do you want to work out? It actually makes you smarter. Look, it makes you stronger. It makes you more healthy, but it may my, my, my daughter, my oldest daughter was taking a, taking a what a final exam today.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Finals week all day.

• 54:29Jocko Willink?

  She's all stressed out, you know, because she likes to get whatever high grades and stuff.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that whole thing.

• 54:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And she was like, I go, you need to go and, and it just so happened when I see this, I was reviewing for this book, but I was reviewing like, you know, I did a bunch of research and read a bunch of stuff because look, I know I feel, I know I feel smarter and better when I work out, but when I was writing this book, I said, okay, what is that? You know, so I started asking, I talked to Peter a tier two. I was like, hey, what, what is up with this? And these are the kind of things, these big words, these big medical words that I put in there, right? So I told my daughter, I said, go for like at least a 20 minute workout before this examination. And, and she did. And I was like, cool. So

• 55:17Jocko Willink?

  that's what you need. That's why we're working out. That's why we're working out. It's so obvious that it's so good for you. And even from the earliest of podcasts, Echo Charles, you made this statement, exercise is like the thing that you can do in your life that will positively impact the most other things in your life, which is a bold statement and a true statement in my humble opinion.

• 55:40Jocko Willink?

  Stress, the good and the bad. This is, this is an area where I talk about stress and look, in order to improve, we need stress. We need to push the body and the mind in order to get better. One of our main physical reactions to stress is to release, release the hormone cortisol into the body. It has a multitude of effects, including making glucose available. So I go into this, what it does, what stress does to you. And, and it's positive because it generates energy, it focuses energy, it focuses you on immediate threats, it prepares you for immediate threats. So that stuff is all good. It allows you to do better in the world.

• 56:21Jocko Willink?

  But you can also go overboard with it. Stress can be bad. So I go through that. Too much stress and the cortisol is released too often. It, it, it, it's like a car running in the red. So I go into that whole thing. So what we have to do is you have to stress the body and the mind in order to improve. But obviously you can't over stress it. So I talk through that whole thing.

• 56:45Jocko Willink?

  And here's something I was like, oh, you know, I'm, I'll cover this on the podcast. This section is called sleep.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 56:53Jocko Willink?

  This is for the haters. Can I use that word and not be a 15 year old girl?

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, sure.

• 56:59Jocko Willink?

  The haters.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:01Jocko Willink?

  So, so obviously, you know, I get up early every day.

• 57:07Jocko Willink?

  And

• 57:09Jocko Willink?

  get stuff done.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Oh, man, you took it back down the other day. What up?

• 57:12Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. What happened? Oh, yeah, I was traveling. So good point. So the other day I was traveling. My flight was delayed or whatever, and I didn't get back into SD until midnight. Got home at 12:30 and I had spent a couple of days on East Coast time. So I wasn't even really, like I do, I wasn't tired. So I probably fell asleep at like 1:30. My alarm went off at 4:30 and I was like, all right, I'm gonna play this, see what this feels like at 4:30. At 4:30, I was like, yeah. So I went back to sleep.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 57:49Jocko Willink?

  Why? Because sleep is good for you. And if you don't have enough sleep, you don't, you don't perform well. You don't think well. Now, listen, here's the thing. People go crazy with this, right? And, and people, you should read this, you should, like, they say, oh, if you have less than eight hours of sleep, you're like being a drunk.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:11Jocko Willink?

  That is just factually untrue, right? I'm, I'm telling you, I have, like, you've been to the muster, right? At some of the early musters where Leif and I are on stage, we're answering questions, we're interacting with people, we're role-playing, we're going through dynamic scenarios. We're, we're, we're performing cognit- high-level cognitive tasks for eight and a half straight, eight and a half, nine, 10 hours straight. We had one hour of sleep, like, not kidding. There's some of those musters, the New York muster, I think, we had like one hour of sleep. So if we had, if, if before the muster, I had done 16 shots of Jägermeister, the muster would have been a lot different.

• 58:54Jocko Willink?

  Now, some people might have liked it, but most people would have wanted their money back. So, look, sleep, so, so, so this is, people think I don't like sleep, or I don't support sleep, or I think, you know, and it's not true. And, and I would say, when people, "Oh, you think you're, you're, you're giving people advice that's unhealthy." Here's the actual advice that I give people from the book. Sleep is a necessity. Humans need sleep. Failure to get enough sleep has serious side effects. Lack of sleep can cause negative hormonal changes, interfere with the metabolizing glucose of glucose, increase blood pressure, and suppress the immune system. Less sleep also means less human growth hormone in your body, which means less muscle mass

• 59:39Jocko Willink?

  and weaker bones. Mentally, the brain is impacted as the ability to pay attention and concentrate begins to diminish, and problem-solving and basic reasoning becomes less acute. Furthermore, over an extended period, there are psychological effects like paranoia and even hallucinations. So, so that's me talking about sleep. You need to sleep. I'm not anti-sleep.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  Isn't there a thing called a fast sleeper? I've read something about that.

• 1:00:06Jocko Willink?

  We'll get there, we'll get there. So, so, so, so check this out. But how much sleep is enough? Different people need different amounts of sleep. Newborns can sleep up to 17 hours a day. Toddlers can sleep 12 hours a day. As people grow older, less sleep is required. Teens generally need eight to 10 hours. And by the time people are full adults, eight hours becomes the standard. Even though the actual number is between seven and nine hours, depending on the individual. Some people genetically need even less sleep than that, but those people are rare. I'm one of those people. And this isn't, I don't have the proof. Well, here's my proof. I guess not even proof. My oldest daughter is like me.

• 1:00:50Jocko Willink?

  Like last night she was studying, she's went to bed at midnight. I woke up at four thirty, she's up. And then she took an exam, cognitive not impaired, right? She's gonna get an A. You know what I'm saying? So, but, but my second daughter. That girl likes to sleep, like she'll get out of bed when you go drag her out of bed, right? Like she likes to sleep. My son. Kind of, it's kind of normal, I would say. My wife, she digs that sleep. So, some of my kids get some of it. My youngest daughter, she's sort of a little bit, I would.

• 1:01:23Jocko Willink?

  But, but so there is, so, so I think there is some sort of genetic thing.

• 1:01:34Jocko Willink?

  But it's, it, people also go, well, it's so rare, there's no chance that you have it. Okay, cool. I'm only, I can only tell you, people like, people say sleep more. I, I, I'm, I'm not. Trying to sleep less, I'm more than happy to sleep, you know, but it just doesn't happen.

• 1:01:54Jocko Willink?

  So going on here, but it isn't only genetics. You can also sleep less and fall asleep faster if you are in good physical condition, eating clean and have a clear mind. For me, the better condition I'm in and the cleaner I eat, the more quickly I will fall asleep and the less sleep I need. Do you notice this? Do you notice that you need less sleep when you're fasting?

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  I, I don't notice, but I'm not paying attention to that.

• 1:02:18Jocko Willink?

  I like when I'm, when I'm fasting, I feel like I'm on fire. Yeah. And I, I just did a fast, I just did a forty eight hour. And I feel, I felt like, again, like I was waking up earlier than I'd normally wake up.

• 1:02:33Jocko Willink?

  So, while I do have short sleep genetics on my side, equally important is that I stay healthy and eat clean. What about when you eat junk? How don't you need to sleep more?

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but actually, you know what? It's real inconsistent when you junk or sorry, when I eat junk. It's sometimes I'll sleep less, but be wanting to sleep more. But you know, the kind like you're tired and you feel sleepy, but you can't like go to sleep, you know? It's like that. There's a lot of that going on. Oh, yeah. I agree.

• 1:03:05Jocko Willink?

  You feel like you wish you would sleep more, but you can't.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  You kind of can't.

• 1:03:08Jocko Willink?

  Just get up.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And feel like crap or whatever and sort of, you know, maybe catch the next wave of sleepiness, I guess. The and on the inverse, when you're talking about like when you exercise consistent, you eat clean or whatever. And it's really different where and it's real, real clear where you feel freaking solid during the day. And then once that bedtime ish kind of rolls around, you just feel the wave just crash. And you're like, oh, it's it's sleep time. Straight up. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's real.

• 1:03:38Jocko Willink?

  When you worked out hard, you had a good day, you ate clean, you get to the end of the day, you're like, boom, you're out.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Right. That's how I was yesterday. And I and I got like an hour less sleep than I normally did the day before. So, but I got up solid. Boom. Eating good.

• 1:03:54Jocko Willink?

  Now that we're thinking about this, when I have like those weird roller coaster brain rides, that's usually, that's usually when I'm like, something's messed up, you know, whether I'm eating crap or or whatever. Yeah.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Bro, it was the kind of like, I do quizzes in story time from with the kids before bed every night. It's like, what? Eight o'clock, eight thirty. Bro, it was a time like it's the kind in the middle of a question that I'm asking is.

• 1:04:25Jocko Willink?

  You fall asleep.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Straight up.

• 1:04:26Jocko Willink?

  That's a good day right there.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, okay, it's about bedtime, you know?

• 1:04:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I I've had that where when my kids were little and I was still in the dummies. And you know, you're just getting up at four thirty, you're doing whatever you're doing at work, come home, you know, and you're just get in bed, read that story. Next thing you know, it's three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning. What just happened? My wife left me in there because she was running around with three kids at the time, you know, trying to get them all squared away. She like, oh, you got the kid to school. She probably went to a bar. I don't know what she did. No, that girl went to sleep. She used to fall asleep with some one kid almost every night. It was crazy.

• 1:05:07Jocko Willink?

  So going on here. And finally, I choose not to sleep in. I don't give into the pillow. I don't give into the temptation of worn blankets or soft pillow. I mobilize the will to get me out of bed and get into the game. Obviously, I'm an advocate of waking up early, but since sleep must be a priority to maintain health, how can we get enough sleep and still wake up early? The answer is simple. Go to bed earlier.

• 1:05:37Jocko Willink?

  Go to bed earlier. Now, I'm going to skip the little bit here, go forward. Well, this, I talk about some of the benefits, like what are the benefits? Why do I wake up early? And I mean, first, there's some simple math, but why do you wake up early? The world is yours when you're up before the enemy. There's no traffic. The gym is empty. There's no one to distract you or call you or send you some stupid text about something you don't care about. So there's like all these benefits to being up early. But then going back to the other point, falling asleep, how do you fall asleep? So this is kind of what we were just talking about. Number one, and there's a whole section, I'm going to read some highlights of it. Number one, get tired. Yes, get tired. If you are not active throughout the day, you won't be tired.

• 1:06:20Jocko Willink?

  You know what's weird is recording the podcast, depending on the podcast? I'm usually super wired when we get done recording. And then I'm tired. You know, it's a mental, it's a mental work.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully.

• 1:06:34Jocko Willink?

  Uh, number two, turn off the computer. Turn off the smartphone. Stop checking social media and stop watching one more YouTube video.

• 1:06:44Jocko Willink?

  Sure, there's some science that says that the light from the computer and phone screen tricks your mind into thinking it's daylight and time to get up. But on top of that, the internet is filled with professionals that create content with the sole purpose of getting you to click on it. Yes, clickbait is real. And just like the bait used in fishing, it is a trick to get you hooked. So don't, don't click it. You will get nothing positive at all. Number three, read. If your mind is still active when you reach your bedtime, that's okay. Get into bed and get a book and start reading. Reading is relaxing. It settles your mind and makes you smarter. So do it. Dude, reading will, reading, I think reading is a massive sleep aid.

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, every once in a while, like you'll, not every once in a while, most of the time, actually in my experience, because I wouldn't be reading a boring book.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Unless it's for a specific purpose, but usually they're interesting books. So at first I might be like, oh, kinda excited. But yeah, man, after, and it depends on the day or whatever, but it can be like after like 10 minutes, 15 minutes.

• 1:07:47Jocko Willink?

  I, you know, the kind of books I read, cause I read them on the podcast all the time. I'm talking about books about war and combat in the most dynamic, heroic situations. Like even those books.

• 1:07:59Jocko Willink?

  If I'm reading, I'll be like, oh, if it's nighttime and I'm reading, I will get tired of fall asleep.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:03Jocko Willink?

  I won't, I don't fall asleep while I'm reading. I rarely do that, but I'll be like, okay, I'm tired.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna shut the book and go to bed.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Then that's exactly what I'm saying. Where maybe at first, if it's like super interesting or exciting, whatever book, you're like, at first you're like, oh man, let's get some reading going, you know, about this, whatever you're reading about. And then yeah, after, like I said, it depends on how your state of mind is, but as far as time goes, but yeah, after a little while, right? You're ready. You're ready to go sleep.

• 1:08:30Jocko Willink?

  I guess I just got done reading a book for the podcast that it was, it was, it was a book that I like, was actively couldn't sleep because I just was like, I'm gonna read this more of this because I want to know what's about to happen. It's freaking crazy. Number four, most important, the key to getting to sleep early is getting up early. No, it might not help you tonight, but tomorrow night it will. If you need seven full hours of sleep and you want to get up at 4:30 AM, that means you need to go to bed at 9:30 PM. But it is hard to force yourself to sleep at 9:30. So you stay up until 11:30. You should still get up at 4:30. Yes, that will only be five hours of sleep. And yes, you will likely feel tired throughout the day,

• 1:09:12Jocko Willink?

  which is actually good because at the end of the day, you want to be tired. Now you can go to bed at 9:30 and get yourself back on track. That's, that's the part that people, if you want to be tired at night at 9:30, you need to get up early. You can't, you can't get up at nine in the morning and expect to be tired at nine at night. It won't happen.

• 1:09:34Jocko Willink?

  And the last thing is do it every day, right? And this is like, you know, weekends, whatever, just do the same time. Look, if you want to give yourself an extra half an hour, I don't even recommend that. I recommend you get up at the same time every day.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, um.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Here's a mistake. I think that, well, when I say some people, me, I make this mistake. Or I have made this mistake straight up where I'll be like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna do that. I want to get up early, you know, earlier, whatever. So I'll just wake up earlier and be tired throughout the day. But what I did is I didn't look at the big picture. I was like, oh, just automatically be tired at night, you know? But what I did was I would laze through the day, skip workout, a lot of laying down on the couch, you know? A lot more than normal. And then, you know, you know, you basically, since you're tired, you kind of adjust your activity accordingly, you know, in a bad way. So you do just way less. And then nighttime comes, you're not as tired as you could have been if you just went about your normal routine.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Sure, you gotta power through it a little bit harder for sure if you're on less sleep or whatever. But at the end, when it comes time to sleep, which was your goal, it's gonna be way more like, it's gonna happen way easier, you know? Or it's gonna happen. In my case, it just straight up doesn't happen. I'm freaking up late again. Can't go to sleep, whatever.

• 1:10:52Jocko Willink?

  Yep. Gotta be careful.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  So yeah, do the normal routine. Don't be slacking.

• 1:10:57Jocko Willink?

  I got a little section on here on power naps. People like, do you take naps? Yes, I do. If I'm super tired, but I, and I explain the whole thing in here. Elevate your feet above your heart, which I learned from one of my high school teachers. And then I only sleep for like eight minutes. And if you're really tired, eight minutes seems like you just got a full on massive amount of sleep.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, remember we're talking about the two types of tired. There's like,

• 1:11:21Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, like there's sleepy tired and then there's like,

• 1:11:24Jocko Willink?

  Physical fatigue.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then you know what? It kind of in the whole eight minute nap thing, sometimes six minutes. It's almost like, and this is all, what do you call it? Hypothesis. We'll call, we'll say that where, if like, if you could just like, if you just did like a marathon freaking podcast or, or you know, after you do a podcast, you mentioned where you're kind of tired, you know? Something that, that, that required like cognitive effort for a somewhat sustained amount of time.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  You you're not exhausted physically, but mentally you might have like this sharpness that you usually have is just dull because like you're you're like it's almost like a superficial conscious like cognitive like a bit almost that's what it almost seems like so if I'm working on something on the computer like admin numbers or freaking stuff not editing stuff like you know work for like three hours and then it's workout time I'm gonna take one of those six minute eight minute and it helps so much.

• 1:12:32Jocko Willink?

  Yep, for sure.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  But the thing is like a six minute eight minutes what can what can possibly recover in that amount of time.

• 1:12:39Jocko Willink?

  Try it though.

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  It's something though. Oh yeah, it's real and it's like.

• 1:12:42Jocko Willink?

  You ever have a dream in eight minutes?

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 1:12:44Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, full on dreams.

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  And you ever have those little half dreams like okay so usually it happens.

• 1:12:50Jocko Willink?

  Does your body move?

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Yes, but it's something very specific though where sometimes you just like feel like oh you just jump right almost like arbitrarily.

• 1:12:58Jocko Willink?

  For me it's because someone's swinging a battle axe in my head in my dreams.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  That makes sense, but yes, it's it's that though it's something specific where like like the other day I was I was getting one in and my son in my little dream it lasted literally like two seconds like a two second dream almost and my son like ran under my legs. And I like had to jump over him in my dream. Yeah, so I jumped and I was like that's what caused me to jump, but it was I remember it was my son ran under my legs.

• 1:13:28Jocko Willink?

  That sounds a lot more pleasant than a battle axe.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:31Jocko Willink?

  A barbarian with a battle axe.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, mine are probably a lot different than yours for sure.

• 1:13:38Jocko Willink?

  Next section. The workouts. Everyone wants to know what should a workout actually consist of and first of all, let me say this. The most important thing is to do something, anything, walk, jog, calisthenics, swim, lift some weights, hike, stretch, do burpees, play a game of basketball or go get on the jujitsu mat. Some people aren't sure what to do for a workout, but that is often just an excuse. Exercise doesn't need to be some complex, multi-level, multi-dimensionally, multi-dimensional, scientifically proven methodology, but it does need to be something. So go through a whole section about the workouts and then I actually put workouts in the book.

• 1:14:23Jocko Willink?

  To see the actual workouts, go to appendix, the workouts again, use the workouts as a guide. Learn about your own body, push yourself, most important, be consistent and consistency starts with getting in the gym. If you are tired or sore or burned out, don't just give up completely, go to the gym and stretch, move, do some light exercises, but keep the routine, routine in place. Too often people take the day off and that turns into two and two into three, and then they've gone a week without getting in a good workout. So maintain the routine, maintain the discipline.

• 1:14:58Jocko Willink?

  I didn't, I didn't cover this section, but that's, I've had a lot of people like this attitude. You're tired, you're sore, you feel like you need a day off. Cool. Do it tomorrow. Still do the workout today, do tomorrow, because it's,

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  Do it tomorrow as in take the day off tomorrow?

• 1:15:13Jocko Willink?

  Take the day off tomorrow. Yep. Take the day off tomorrow. So you know, you go into that spot, you're like, you know what? I could probably just, you know, I've worked out really hard. It's been, it's been six days. It's been three days straight. I'm kinda tired. I'm kinda sore. I do have this, you know, project due. I should really take the day off today. Okay, cool. You can take the day off tomorrow. Still have to do it today. And guess what? You wake up tomorrow, you don't need to take a day off. It was all just negotiation. But the cool thing is you, maybe you do need a day off. Cool. You wake up the next day and you're like, God, I am so cool. Take the day off.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And that's a, and I've done that before where I'm be honest, I'm not that good at doing that yet. But I've done that before where I'll be like, no, I'm going to power through. In fact, I'm going to go as hard as I freaking can. I'm going to go extra hard and then I'll take it tomorrow. And then on, on times where I really did need the day off, the next day I feel even worse, like

• 1:16:05Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Way more obvious I need the day off. The day off, yeah. But other times it's, most of the time, it's exactly what you say. It's just the day. You don't feel like it. You freaking whatever you did last night or whatever. It's some, some other factor that has to do with just the day, you know, the circumstances.

• 1:16:20Jocko Willink?

  You can also just like have some minimum workout that you must do.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I have that.

• 1:16:26Jocko Willink?

  Well, like, oh, you know what? Oh, you're going to be a, you're, you're, you're, you're a millimeter from not doing anything. Okay. I'm going to go do the minimum workout. I'm going to do this, just this stuff. Get it done. And then if I still feel like crap tomorrow, I'll, I'll, I'll take a legit day off.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. And another thing that, that It's almost like a thing that gets revealed is that minimum workout thing has obviously a bunch of benefits. But usually you know how like and again depends on what you were doing before the workout, maybe what you're doing last night, whatever. But a lot of times, once you just get the blood flowing, right?

• 1:17:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  And this is the thing, I don't know the the full ins and outs of it. Got to ask the actual fitness person, but like it's it's called priming, priming your body and mind or whatever for workout. So a lot of times you're just deprimed. I'm I made that word up, deprime, but you understand what I'm saying, right? It's the opposite of.

• 1:17:18Jocko Willink?

  Fully.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  Sometimes during the you're just more deprime than you normally are, you know? And you're just really not into it for other reasons, you know? So sometimes that minimum workout, you're like, all right, and you sort of inadvertently prime your whole.

• 1:17:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Deal. Yeah. Oh, wait, I'm not sore and tired and overtrained.

• 1:17:37Jocko Willink?

  I noticed that a lot with with with any body part, but like your legs for sure. You know, when it's squat day?

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:44Jocko Willink?

  Now, we don't know what what unseen mechanisms are at work in your brain that are telling you that you're like more sore. But a lot of times you're rolling into squat day and you're feeling. In your mind, you're thinking, I'm pretty sore. You're really negotiating hard for that day off.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:02Jocko Willink?

  And you really notice after you and even your first couple of sets, you know, you just do, you just do some some body weight squats just to warm up. And you're like, oh, I'm definitely sore. Then you do the bar, then you do the forty five pound bar. Just you're just getting warmed up.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:16Jocko Willink?

  You take the PVC pipe, you do some overhead squats. You're like, whoa, I'm definitely sore. And then when you start putting some some weight on, you start realizing, oh, I'm actually not sore. Oh, you start feeling good and you're you're good to go.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:28Jocko Willink?

  You were good to go. That's what that's that's that happens a lot. That happens a lot. It seems to happen a lot on on the on the good old squat day, too.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  So when you say, and this is more your personal thing. Uh, like your squat day or whatever. Will you do just squats or legs or whatever? Or is it like a, you know?

• 1:18:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I mean, I do some other stuff, but yes, I will be.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  Like other body parts or other exercises for legs?

• 1:18:52Jocko Willink?

  No, really, it's just body, just, just squat day.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:54Jocko Willink?

  Squat day, which encompasses all kinds of different leg work, we'll say.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've done, I've always done multiple body parts.

• 1:19:02Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  But usually squat day would, would be just part of a, a, just a multiple body part day. But when I saw it, it was a hack kind of out of laziness in a way where I'd be like, you know what? I'm just going to designate one day for just squats.

• 1:19:16Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  And then I started incorporating just a small muscle group, like a curls situation. Make some triceps, then do the squats, something that's not going to. So if, if I do like shoulders, for example, depends on the workout, obviously. But if I'm going like hardcore shoulder press, then freaking superset of this and that, you know? A whole shoulder workout? And you want me to go do squats now?

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  After the age of about thirty, that started to be less and less of a sustainable thing mentally in my mind.

• 1:19:46Jocko Willink?

  Okay, that's interesting. So you've gotten mentally weaker as you've gotten older?

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  Yes, sir, I have, apparently.

• 1:19:52Jocko Willink?

  That's strange. Are you sure you just didn't get it smarter where you realized if you really wanted to push? You needed to focus, you need to prioritize and execute?

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  I, I would say that that's a good way of putting it, making it sound better.

• 1:20:03Jocko Willink?

  Oh, rationalizing?

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  And maybe rationalize it, or maybe that was the case the whole time, you know? Where I could be benefiting way more from this, this, this leg workout. If I just soloed it one day rather than doing a big other body part workout than, than the legs. And vice versa too, because sometimes I would do the squats first and then suffer through a shoulder workout or something like this, you know? But now, anyway, like I do like.

• 1:20:29Jocko Willink?

  It's weird too, like I always, I always, if possible, lift before jujitsu.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:34Jocko Willink?

  Right, that's, do you do that?

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:20:37Jocko Willink?

  And I'll tell you, it's, it's not because.

• 1:20:43Jocko Willink?

  It's it's not it's it's it's because jujitsu, I don't want to go and work out. I would rather go to jujitsu with some muscle fatigue than go to workout with muscle fatigue.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:57Jocko Willink?

  Even though, isn't that, that seems backwards. That seems counterintuitive.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  I never thought so.

• 1:21:02Jocko Willink?

  Well, I'm going to compete against Echo, so I want to be ready to go.

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:06Jocko Willink?

  That seems like the intuitive thing, but I would much rather just be a little bit tired when I'm rolling with whoever than to be all, than to be tired when I roll into the gym.

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, no, I think if you know the dynamics of both types of workouts, I think it's it's obvious that you do want to lift, do a lifting before jujitsu because jujitsu has quick diminishing returns with strength.

• 1:21:31Jocko Willink?

  That's true.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  Very quick.

• 1:21:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  Endurance, not so much, but muscle like strength or whatever, um, it's quick. But it's the opposite for lifting weights. So you need your strength. You don't necessarily need that much endurance, depending on the workout, obviously, but as far as lifting weights goes, you don't need that much endurance. But um, when you go to jujitsu, if you don't have that much strength, but as long as you can kind of sustain and you know, do this thing, I mean, you're not going to run like a whole CrossFit Games routine and then go to jujitsu and think you're going to feel good. I mean, it's a bit different, you know, but.

• 1:22:05Jocko Willink?

  That's true. Although I'll tell you, like, I'll do some crazy workouts and still go to jujitsu and barely remember that. I mean, and I'm not talking, I go like walk from one to the other, you know, I work out in the morning really hard and then in the afternoon I'm going to jujitsu. I mean, by that time you go, what, eighty, ninety percent of your strength back? So it's not that big of a deal.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, and jujitsu is different like that because your energy output in jujitsu is variable, very much so, and you can modulate fully like, and you know, it's going to obviously depend on who you're rolling with as well. You go with a tornado dude who's good. It's like, right, you're going to feel that workout in the morning if you have that kind of day. But if a normal day of jujitsu where some guys you go hard, sometimes you go medium, sometimes you don't have to go as hard as, as far as that goes, you can modulate and yeah, navigate through the energy output easy.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  But as far as like the type of exercise versus the other type of exercise lifting whatever, if you switch them around, you do jujitsu first and all that sort of sustained output. And you think you're gonna go into a lifting and freaking push hard, this quit and negative.

• 1:23:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's a weird thing, man. It's a weird thing, but that's, it seems to be you and I are in agreement on that. Got a section in here on building a home gym. And this is obviously with the world that we're in right now with COVID. This is a very good thing to have, a home gym and you can, I go through all the, all the kinds of different things that you should get first and the considerations. You know, getting a pull-up bar and, and all those things like, you know, you, I don't have enough money. I mean, you can get a pull-up bar for nine dollars at Home Depot. I'm not even talking about, you know, you go and, whatever, you can get a piece of pipe, you, you have a pull-up bar. You can get a set of rings for pretty cheap. Like there's, there's ways that you can make it happen. So I got a little section in there on building a home gym.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, the home gym thing that the, I think the primary factor that you really have to kind of consider and navigate is the space.

• 1:23:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  More so than the money. Cause money is like, for the most part, you can like spend way less or just, you know, make payments or all, or whatever.

• 1:24:07Jocko Willink?

  Even the space though, you can see people that do really cool, creative things to get good workouts in a small space.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 1:24:14Jocko Willink?

  And you, you really need very minimal equipment to be in awesome shape. Really the only piece of equipment that I think you actually need is a pull-up bar. Cause if you have a pull-up bar, you can do pull-ups, but you can autumn, you can already do, push-ups, di- uh, not dips, but push-ups. You can do all kinds of chest variation, push-up variation. Like you can get crazy with push-ups. There's millions of different varieties of push-ups you can do. You can do squats, you can do lunges, you can do, you can do basically your whole body. You can do handstand push-ups for your shoulders. Like there's so many things that you can do. If you just have a pull-up bar, if you don't have a pull-up bar, you're kind of,

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true, huh? Like there's, you can't just like, cause all those things that you said, aside from the, the, anything pulling or whatever. You you don't need anything. You just need the ground.

• 1:25:03Jocko Willink?

  You just need the ground.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, maybe a wall, a wall would help or a tree or whatever.

• 1:25:07Jocko Willink?

  Almost every building has a wall.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  Yes, and every, yeah, or a tree or some thing outside or whatever, you know. Uh, but yeah, the pulling thing, it's hard to hard to access if you don't have like a pull up bar.

• 1:25:19Jocko Willink?

  Rings are really good because then you can not only do pull ups, but you can also do dips. And then there's all kinds of other crazy things that you can do with rings.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:27Jocko Willink?

  So rings are also awesome. Uh, the next section is called martial arts. Again, this is an operating, this is my operating system and part of my operating system. As you've just heard us talking about is martial arts. And I say everyone should train in martial arts, just as everyone should eat.

• 1:25:44Jocko Willink?

  But just as food is different and varies greatly in how it affects your body, not all martial arts are created equal. There are three broad forms of martial arts, grappling, striking and weapons. Grappling uses leverage and holds to control or submit your opponent. Striking you, striking uses punches, kicks, knees, elbows, head butts, or any other body part to hit the opponent. Martial arts with weapons obviously use utilize a variety of weapons, including sticks, knives, and in the modern world firearms. Perhaps the most most critical form of self-defense is the mind. By being smart and aware, you can avoid situations that are likely to expose you to danger.

• 1:26:25Jocko Willink?

  That being said, there are times when your mind and your intelligence can no longer help you.

• 1:26:32Jocko Willink?

  That is the reality. So that's why we train, right? Because there's as much as someone says, well, you know, I I'm able to avoid. To look, there's going to be situations that you can end up in, even if you're completely situational aware and you're looking to avoid situations, they can still happen. That's why you have to train. And I'm I'm gonna skip ahead a little bit here.

• 1:26:53Jocko Willink?

  Uh, because I talk about firearms.

• 1:26:56Jocko Willink?

  And the the necessity of firearms in certain situations. And I and I say this, most important, without proper training, possessing a firearm is useless. And or even more dangerous to its owner than not having one. Learning how to shoot quickly and accurately while under stress is absolutely mandatory. If one is going to own a firearm, this means finding a good instructor at a quality range to participate in firearms training. Right? So you you gotta have a firearm and and I'm gonna go back and read a section that I wasn't planning to read, but I'm gonna read it anyways.

• 1:27:31Jocko Willink?

  It is an equalizer, the firearm, the ultimate form of self-defense is the firearm.

• 1:27:38Jocko Willink?

  It is an equalizer without parallel and it is simply unmatched in its ability to eliminate an attacker regardless of size and strength. If a person truly needs self-protection in a high-threat area, there is no substitute for the firearm. Even in an area that might be considered low-threat, there are no guarantees. There have been horrific home invasions, carjackings, kidnappings, and other vicious and violent attacks in some of the most prestigious neighborhoods in the world that were also considered to be the safest. There is no choice but to be prepared.

• 1:28:08Jocko Willink?

  So firearms, talk about some of the training and what you do and you know, some of the benefits of it. Firearms training builds hand-eye coordination, speed, concentration, and instincts. It demands repetitive movement, develop muscle memory. So there's, there's other benefits to, to utilizing firearms than just self-protection. Training competitively for speed and accuracy conditions you for high-pressure situations by teaching the need to relax, detach, and get control of your breathing and focus on the immediate task. And like you can apply that to anything, not just to shooting. So there's some, some real benefits to firearms. And then I go on here, but firearms are not always available. There are many places in the world where carrying a gun is illegal. There are also times where firearms malfunction. It is also important to know how to defend

• 1:28:53Jocko Willink?

  yourself in unarmed situations, which brings us back to martial arts. First, let me say that the martial arts are very emotional for some people. Their martial art becomes their religion and they become blinded by it. Martial arts are not static. They evolve all with, they evolve all the time. If you do not evolve with them, you will be left behind. Picking one martial art versus another, or saying that one martial art is better than another martial art drives some people crazy. I do not engage in irrational theoretical discussions on which martial art is best. There's no reason to theorize anymore. The ultimate fighting championship put many theories to the test. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan also put many theories to the test about hand-to-hand combat.

• 1:29:36Jocko Willink?

  Finally, every person now carries a video camera in their pocket and there are thousands of street fights and confrontations to watch on the internet. With all that information readily available, there is no need to theorize anymore. It is easy to see what works and what doesn't. Furthermore, it is also obvious that martial arts are not stagnant. They evolve. People develop new techniques and new moves to counter other techniques and other moves. But they, but the fundamental principles do not change. They only become reinforced.

• 1:30:08Jocko Willink?

  And I give some advice here. Start with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. It is a form of grappling that is highly advanced because for the most part, the actual fighting takes place on the ground. This is a key point because our first form of self-defense is to get away. Yes, run. If you are confronted by another person or a group of people, the best thing you can do is run away, avoid the conflict. This is relatively easy if someone is trying to strike with you or strike you with punches or kicks. They do not have control over you, so you can simply run away from them. You have won. The problem comes in a self-defense situation when someone is grabbing you. Now they are preventing your first line of defense, running.

• 1:30:50Jocko Willink?

  As soon as someone grabs you, you are in a grappling scenario. And one of the most critical parts of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is escaping someone's grip so you can run. Oftentimes, an attacker will take you to the ground in order to prevent you from escaping their grip. When this happens, the ability to ground fight is used not to stay on the ground, but to get up and get away from the attacker. The first goal of a beginner in Jiu Jitsu is not to get the fight to the ground, but to get up off the ground and get away. This is an important distinction from people who believe the goal of self-defense in Jiu Jitsu is to get the attacker to the ground. This is not true. The goal is to get away.

• 1:31:31Jocko Willink?

  But as has been seen over and over again, fights often end up on the ground and therefore a person must be prepared for it. Not training in Jiu Jitsu because you don't want to go to the ground is like not learning to swim because you don't want to go in the water. It doesn't make sense. The safest way to deal with the water is to be comfortable in it, just as being comfortable on the ground is the best way to deal with that scenario should it unfold in real life. Questions, comments from Echo Charles?

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:32:01Jocko Willink?

  We can reach back to your days, many days, on the front lines of the bouncing world.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  Sure. Uh, yeah, I agree. That is, yeah, I agree. I can't disagree at all.

• 1:32:11Jocko Willink?

  One of the, one of the primary arguments that people give when they, you know, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is no good for self-defense. Why would you take someone to the ground? Why are you taking them to the ground? That's not, we're not doing that. We're trying to get away.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, you know, at the, like, at the muscle, when we do the Jiu Jitsu part, and you notice this and you actually pointed it out, which I liked, but whatever. Where I said, if I choose to fight this guy, you know, like, I'll go through the basic thing or whatever. I confront this guy, this guy confronts me and I choose to fight him. So it's way different than self-defense. That's like, I chose to fight this person. And most of the time, you, you add in, just like how you said earlier, where if you don't have a choice to run, like if they grab you or whatever, there is that too, for sure. But yes, if you choose to fight him, then yeah, you can take him to a ground or whatever. Now, your choice to fight him is gonna be based on a bunch of other things. And it better be intelligent, because if you're like, yeah, I'm at the club, you said this and whatever, and then you choose to fight him.

• 1:33:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know if that's, you know, the right choice. And now you got a whole different issue than the self-defense situation. You know, that's like a choice that you made or whatever. But yeah, if you're, you know, I don't know, fighting with your friend, not your friend, but your enemy after school and everyone's like, circle, I don't know, whatever. There, there's, there's choices to be made. And if the right choice is to fight the guy, then yes, bring the Jiu Jitsu.

• 1:33:25Jocko Willink?

  Well, then, yeah. So, so then you can use Jiu Jitsu, but now you're using it in an offensive situation. And so, yes, you probably will want to take the person to the ground.

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully.

• 1:33:36Jocko Willink?

  I mean, if it's, if it's a, like a one-on-one, I'm choosing to fight. Cause if it's four-on-one and you're choosing to fight, you're just being stupid.

• 1:33:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:33:43Jocko Willink?

  You're about to get your ass beat.

• 1:33:45Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. Yeah, very high likelihood, yes.

• 1:33:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  The, I do have a question about the firearms. Train, like, you know how you, you train in stressful situations? What kind of stressful situations can you, like, put yourself in or whatever?

• 1:33:59Jocko Willink?

  There's some obvious ones. The most obvious one is time constraints. So, hey, I want to get these shots off as quick as possible and I'm competing against, you know, Echo's going against me and we're trying to see who wins. There's a little bit of stress there. But also, hey, do. Thirty burpees and then shoot six headplates, right?

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 1:34:16Jocko Willink?

  So you're breathing hard, sprint, reload, reload drills. Um, this, all those things that, that, there's a million different ways.

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:24Jocko Willink?

  I mean, you can, I'm sure those were enough to kind of spark your creativity on what you can do to make it stressful.

• 1:34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully the time, because I went, it was the last time I went, but I, I went to the range with Keenan Cornelius. And we did, we just did like a simple fun like contest, you know, kind of like shooting. We play horse or pig or whatever, yeah. Kind of like that kind of situation. I mean, I actually filmed it, but the video kind of got wonky. I was going to release it, but that, that did add a little something because it like, if you miss or you whatever, it meant something kind of thing. But it, I didn't, I'd never felt, I wouldn't label it as a stressful.

• 1:35:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  Training scenario, but time constraints, if it's like, okay, you got time and let's try to get better at it and all this stuff.

• 1:35:06Jocko Willink?

  Competition. I mean, when you're in the SEAL teams, you're doing freaking competitive shooting against every, basically, all the time you're shooting against somebody.

• 1:35:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:14Jocko Willink?

  Or you shoot against three people or four people or whatever. So you, you're, you, you have that level of stress. But then it's also, you know, you're going to run, you're going to run up that berm, you're going to drag that tire. You're going to come back over here, you're going to shoot six headplates, you're going to go back, you're going to get on your long gun. You're going to put down this one. You've got all these things that you gotta do.

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:30Jocko Willink?

  And it's all a race and they're just trying to make you freak out. And then on top of that, you know, once you get into simunition, now you've got, you, you're not shooting real bullets, but you're shooting, you've got people maneuvering. You've got people, you know, you're throwing flash glasses. We've got grenades going off, like all kinds of mayhem.

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  And simunition is just as loud as regular?

• 1:35:48Jocko Willink?

  It's not just as loud. No.

• 1:35:49Speaker 01

  Is it like night and day?

• 1:35:51Jocko Willink?

  Night and day. Yeah.

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  No kidding. Okay. Cause that, I feel like, and obviously I've never been in a straight up gunfight with anyone, like they're shooting at me, I'm shooting at them.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  But I would imagine.

• 1:36:04Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  That just hearing other gunshots going on and you know that they're at you or intended for you or whatever, that's gonna just bring you out of your whole shooting game.

• 1:36:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the the noise of gunshots, it's like you hear it a lot less when you're when you're shooting like at somebody. You're in the game, yeah, like it's a lot less, a lot less. Um, it's not that, it's not like the, like the little shock that you get when you're at the range or whatever. Okay. Even even actually, if you get, you know, you get like a good stress scenario going, even in a training situation, you won't really like notice big time. And we used to do our drills, this is back in the back in the day, they used to make, and this is, this is, I don't recommend it, but they would make us do some of our immediate action drills with no ear protection in, so that we would like quote, get used to it.

• 1:37:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:01Jocko Willink?

  But this is loud.

• 1:37:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so and that was something too that I was wondering where, so if you're in the field, straight up, war zone, do you have ear protection?

• 1:37:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you have, well nowadays, we have this, and this is another thing that's pretty crazy is we have the headsets that are noise cancelling headsets. And the reason you're wearing them is because you're on the radio, so it's it's your headphone for your radio, so you can hear. And it's a noise cancelling headset, so when a loud noise goes off, it cancels out that noise.

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:32Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 1:37:33Speaker 01

  So, okay, so when was the first time you ever shot a gun?

• 1:37:36Jocko Willink?

  Do you remember? In my life?

• 1:37:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, in your life.

• 1:37:38Jocko Willink?

  I was probably like eight or nine, I think.

• 1:37:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:37:42Jocko Willink?

  Maybe 10?

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:44Jocko Willink?

  So, no, I think I think I was younger than 10. But I was, I was up in Maine and I went out to my friend, my friend who was a little bit older than me. Uh, we went out to his uncle's farm and and shot.

• 1:37:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the, so you weren't like surprised by how freaking loud a gun is then?

• 1:38:07Jocko Willink?

  No, but I think, I think what you're getting at is people that I don't really remember enough of like my introduction to firearms. To get what you're getting at, which is firearms are freaking loud. Way louder than anything they could portray in the movies or whatever. Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:38:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz that it just again, I never been in a firefight, but it just seems like when you imagine it where when it kicks off and you didn't kick it off with the first shot. If someone else shot, fired the first shot, it seems like you'd just be out of the game if you're not used to it.

• 1:38:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, you definitely, that's another thing is you get so used to gunshots in the SEAL teams from your training that that doesn't really like, it's not a shock anymore. You're so accustomed to it. It's not, it's not shocking. It's like, oh, oh, where's that coming from?

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah, even like when you go to the gun.

• 1:39:00Jocko Willink?

  The distance, you know, when someone's a little bit further away from you. The, the shock is a lot less when you get away from it, you know, like the the concussion of the shot.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:13Jocko Willink?

  Now, if they're in the same room as you, it can be pretty, pretty dynamic, right?

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:39:18Jocko Willink?

  We should ask Mike Day.

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. How that could, yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's crazy. Like when, okay, so when you go to the gun range, let's say, you know, it's your first time or whatever, the gun range, when you walk in that door and you hear other people shooting, you're like, bro, what the heck?

• 1:39:33Jocko Willink?

  Have you shot outdoors yet?

• 1:39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:35Jocko Willink?

  Okay, cuz it's a lot different shooting outdoors than indoors.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:38Jocko Willink?

  A lot different.

• 1:39:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I even, it was actually the first time I shot a gun. Think one of the early times anyway was, was outdoors and I don't think we even had ear protection.

• 1:39:51Jocko Willink?

  And depending on the gun, I mean, some guns aren't really that big of a deal.

• 1:39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were shooting like, uh, some louder ones, forty five shotgun for, we're shooting clay, clay pigeons or whatever. Um, and yeah, I remember them being loud, like for real loud, even outdoors, but compared to indoors, it's, it was nothing. Cuz if you don't wear ear protection like at the regular indoor gun range, like you might have some issues.

• 1:40:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you got issues. But it's good to condition, it's good to stress condition, it's good to get used to those noises, it's good to get used to all those things. This is what we train for. And we should not just relegate training to just being in the military. We should train for, you know, other things that can happen in life. And if you are gonna have a firearm, you damn well better train with it.

• 1:40:38Jocko Willink?

  Going back to the jiu-jitsu thing, I want to read this other little section. Another reason I recommend starting martial arts by learning Brazilian jiu-jitsu is because it is the most complex of the martial arts. Although there is a finite number of moves and positions, there is an infinite number of moves beyond the basics. And more are developed every day in this constantly evolving art. Due to this unending depth in jiu-jitsu, it is also the most cerebral of martial arts. It provides incredible mental stimulus and a never-ending challenge to learn, develop, and improve. Jiu-jitsu never gets old. The next martial art I recommend is learning boxing.

• 1:41:21Jocko Willink?

  Boxing is incredibly effective, striking art despite its relative simplicity. There are only two weapons in boxing, the left hand and the right hand. But with those two weapons, an incredible advantage can be gained if you know how to throw them in effective combinations. Other critical elements learned in boxing are angles, movement, both of which are based heavily on footwork, and speed, which are utilized in both the offense and defense of boxing. With basic boxing knowledge, a person can throw effective punches and avoid being punched, both extremely useful assets when attempting to, attempting the primary goal of self-defense, run. Boxing develops the ability to hit quickly, avoid being hit, and run away from the area of confrontation.

• 1:42:05Jocko Willink?

  So that's just regular western boxing.

• 1:42:10Jocko Willink?

  And this is sort of like, again, this is my recommendation, if you're starting from ground zero and you know nothing, this is how I would go about it.

• 1:42:19Jocko Willink?

  There can be some argument made that if you were going to a place tomorrow that you needed to be ready to be get attacked, then maybe like you'd look at some other form of martial arts.

• 1:42:38Jocko Willink?

  But if if that's your situation, like it's not smart. I mean, and you know, by that, I mean, some of these I I don't even know if that's a true statement.

• 1:42:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's I think it might be. I think it is one of the statements where it just straight up depends. So it depends on what what do you mean you're going to be attacked like just by a person and is that person be trained or no untrained or they be bigger than you or they can be equal size of, you know, or smaller or weapons or? And then it depends on who like, okay, you might learn, you know, and what is it like? Okay, you might need these these kind of blitz martial arts type situation like a Krav Maga some, you know? Or whatever, or whatever, some cool system or whatever.

• 1:43:15Jocko Willink?

  Narit actually told me that. I think Narit was like, you know, if you had like one day, I would teach somebody some basic Krav Maga stuff.

• 1:43:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and that could be true for sure. If you know, if the teach the instructor is teaching you for that reason, yeah, you just got one day, let's pack it in. Or and then even a jujitsu scenario.

• 1:43:34Jocko Willink?

  Here's the problem with that statement. Now that I think through it, in my opinion, the problem with that statement is if you really think that that one day is going to help you, you're an idiot. Like it might be the best you could do, but it only going to give you a 1% better chance than, you know, so don't get yourself in that situation. That's why you make martial arts a part of your life. It's it's got to be a life thing.

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  But the the thing is, that is a thing, though, where like even Tim Ferriss sort of studies it a little bit. Remember, like, because he took a thing, a jujitsu thing where he was like, hey, I need to know that the most that I possibly can to be effective in the small, short.

• 1:44:09Jocko Willink?

  Oh, this was like his TV show, right?

• 1:44:11Speaker 01

  It was. Yeah, it was like one of his things. And I was like, oh, that's an interesting theory because that's not the way you train jujitsu at all. And, you know, they taught him like the guillotine was one of them that they taught because there's not all these like factors you have to kind of establish before you can execute the move or not as many or whatever. That was kind of the thing. And anyway, the the point is it introduced like an interesting approach to these things, this real short term approach. How can I get the most effectiveness out of it if I only have a short amount of time? Rather than infinite time, you know? So, yeah.

• 1:44:43Jocko Willink?

  But again, that's cool too, because you could also that that would be it'd be if you made. If someone said, I'm gonna go to this place tomorrow and there's a high likelihood I got attacked. I would be taking, I wouldn't, I would be taking very small parts of various martial arts.

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:57Jocko Willink?

  That's what I think I would do. But again, I don't want to make that sound like it's a solution because I don't want to sound like the freaking magazines and say, defeat any attacker in three moves. It's a lie.

• 1:45:07Speaker 01

  Straight up.

• 1:45:07Jocko Willink?

  It's a lie.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  Straight up.

• 1:45:08Jocko Willink?

  So don't think of it that way. Don't even forget I just said that.

• 1:45:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:11Jocko Willink?

  Here's the deal. Make martial arts a part of your life.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:15Jocko Willink?

  That's what you need to do. Back to the book. The next two martial arts to invest time into are Muay Thai and wrestling. They both add a plethora of options and skills to any fighter. Wrestling, wrestling is a grappling art. Perhaps the most widely known and practiced. Look, I go through a bunch of stuff. I talk about Muay Thai and Muay Thai is awesome. I think the reason that I put, that I would train someone in boxing first before Muay Thai is just for the complexities. Like Muay Thai is just that much more complex. You can throw elbows, you can throw knees, you can throw kicks. There's a lot more things to learn.

• 1:45:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:52Jocko Willink?

  So the first thing I'm gonna want to learn is how to throw hands. You know, how to throw hands, get head movement, get angles, work distance. Like that's all gonna come from just boxing without opening up. Cause look, I mean Muay Thai is savage, bro. Muay Thai is savage.

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's one of the.

• 1:46:09Jocko Willink?

  And it's pain.

• 1:46:10Speaker 01

  That's what I was gonna say. Like that's what you get taught as well. And not like a secondary teaching. Like one of the primary thinking is like kinda how fragile you are with pain. Where the kinda like, okay.

• 1:46:22Jocko Willink?

  Or how much you can get used to it too.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  Exactly right. That's part of the training, you know? That's what you do benefit from. Taking that pain, like ribs, legs is a huge one, man. Like a leg kick, body kick, punch. Even when you kick somebody and it lands in the wrong spot, but it's like.

• 1:46:39Jocko Willink?

  It hurts.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  It's, it's worse than.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  Most hits that you get like if you get punched in the face, let's face it. I mean, it seems crazy or whatever, but it doesn't hurt that much. Even if you really get a good one, it more knocks you like dizzy more than it actually is pain. Muay Thai is straight up pain. In fact, you in a way, sometimes you kind of wish you'd stop punching me below the freaking neck, or kicking or whatever, just punch me in the face. That's way better, way more is relief, really, you know, sometimes. But yeah, you get used to that and that kind of training is very beneficial. Cause man, you kick even in like a real fight or whatever you give, if you can effectively like leg kick somebody two, even three times or something like this and they feel that pain, they'll be like, brah.

• 1:47:24Jocko Willink?

  You're watching the UFC, you're like, oh, you know what, the guy got kicked on the leg. You think, no big deal. You're, you don't know, here, actually, I was like, trying to think, what did I say? Muay Thai adds a massive arsenal of striking options to a fighter where boxing utilizes only two fists. Muay Thai utilizes fists, elbows, knees, and the shins in very aggressive combinations that are absolutely devastating in a fight. Muay Thai is also about pain and the ability to withstand pain.

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:47:48Jocko Willink?

  Legit. Uh, talk about shin conditioning in there. So definitely, look, Muay Thai, awesome. Wrestling clearly is just freaking awesome. Um, wrestling is a grappling art. The physical grind of wrestling hardens the body and mind without mercy. On top of the conditioning and mental toughness derived from wrestling, it is also the king of position in martial arts. And we see this from the UFC. This is why, this is why the wrestlers dominate in the UFC, meaning a good wrestler can decide what position they will be in during a confrontation. No other martial art provides a practitioner a better ability to dictate the position of a fight with one simple idea. The main focus of wrestling is to get the opponent to the ground and keep

• 1:48:33Jocko Willink?

  them there. So then I say, once a good base is, and again, there's a bunch of details on wrestling, on Muay Thai, on boxing. Once a good base is established in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, boxing, wrestling, and Muay Thai, there are plenty of other martial arts to explore. Judo is a fantastic art and has very effective takedowns, especially against an opponent wearing a jacket or shirt.

• 1:48:58Jocko Willink?

  Sambo, I talk about Krav Maga, I talk about Scream and Kali and the Dog Brothers. You know Dog Brothers?

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  Vaguely, yes.

• 1:49:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the Dog Brothers are legit, about as legit as it gets. They, and they've been around for a long time, but for those of you that don't know the Dog Brothers, they would have these fights with weapons. And basically, you would wear, the guys would wear like lacrosse gloves, I guess, to protect their fingers. And they would wear some kind of, some kind of like hockey helmet to protect their heads. And then they would use various weapons. They would use sticks, they would use chains, they would use canes, just all, and they would go at it, like they would fight, like they would fight. And you could tap out, but they were gonna fight, you were gonna get hit.

• 1:49:49Jocko Willink?

  And you can go watch those videos of the Dog Brothers, but what was cool about it is, and they've been around for a very long time. And it was the most realistic, you know, it's the most realistic weapons fighting, I think that, that I've seen. And, and then they would try and learn from it and all that, so very cool stuff that they taught and trained in. And then I say the list could go on and on, there's, there's no reason to ever stop training and learning martial arts. Of course, it is good to be prepared to handle a self-defense situation, but the benefits of martial arts training go far beyond self-defense. Of course, you get physically conditioned, you also get mentally tougher, real martial arts are hard. They, they are a mental and physical grind. If the martial art you are training in is easy,

• 1:50:34Jocko Willink?

  it isn't likely doing much good. Martial arts also get you used to being on uncomfortable situations and continuing to fight on. This is important in any endeavor, martial arts will make you better. So, train, don't think about it, don't take time to get in shape before you start, just go start, the rest will come. And then I have a whole section in here about where to train, what type of academy, what are you looking for? Thank God the world is improving, where there's jiu-jitsu everywhere. Now, look, we're gonna get through this COVID thing here shortly, and all the jiu-jitsu gyms will be back open.

• 1:51:08Jocko Willink?

  Have a section in here on immediate action drills facing a threat. So like talking about what you actually do when bad things are happening. You know, we get mass shooting situations. We got all kinds of problems out there. And, you know, I wanted to talk about how you handle those situations.

• 1:51:29Jocko Willink?

  The next section, man, I hit every controversial. The next section is called feeding the machine. And the first section here, and by the way, you know, everyone's going to comment about, you know, it's funny is like people comment, you know, we've had some, some excerpts put out from us talking about martial arts. And there's people that would say, would call out certain things. And I'll read through the comments. Oh, yeah. Well, that's actually accurate. I shouldn't have said that, or I didn't mention that or whatever. So if you're going to get all ham, if you get all ham in the comments, go for it. And maybe we'll address them on the grounded podcast. But some good points are made in there. And like I said, these are, these are, if you consider your martial art a religion, and something that I said

• 1:52:13Jocko Willink?

  attacked your religion, if you're a diehard Muay Thai, and you think that I'm saying that jiu-jitsu is better to, you know, like, and you want to bring it. I'm sorry, I mean, it's just, this is my thoughts. You can disagree. That's cool. Muay Thai is awesome. Wrestling is awesome. Boxing is awesome. Jiu-jitsu is awesome. I love them all. Train them all. It's all good. But it's controversial for some people. Yes. Some people, it's a religion. So you gotta be careful of that. So when talking about fuel, like what we are going to eat, this is another thing that can become, you know, kind of controversial and people

• 1:52:55Jocko Willink?

  get crazy on. I got a section here says addicted to sugar. Sugar is truly addictive. It stimulates the same parts of the brain as heroin and cocaine. When you have it, you want more of it. And you know this to be true. That's why you can't stop eating it. And when you do stop eating it, you will feel withdrawal. Headache, irritation, anxiety. Lies. The lies will come and they will come from you. The lies you tell yourself are it's no big deal. I can just have a little. It isn't worth it to feel this bad. The body needs carbs. You will rationalize and start to listen to lies. Don't stay strong. Get off the sugar train. Get off the addiction.

• 1:53:40Jocko Willink?

  Stop eating sugar.

• 1:53:44Jocko Willink?

  Cocaine and heroin, people. Don't you know what the rats eat?

• 1:53:51Jocko Willink?

  Fuel. Look, I talk about.

• 1:53:55Jocko Willink?

  I talk about what to eat. And again. This is a religion for some people. For a lot of people, it's a religion. I kind of, you know, hey, here's what I think. Here's what I eat. You know, I eat these things. Beef, poultry, fish, eggs, nuts, vegetables. Fungi. Roots, some dairy, limited fruits. So if you want to get crazy on that, cool. You want to attack me? Cool. What kind of fungi you eat? Mushrooms, I guess.

• 1:54:26Jocko Willink?

  And ringworm, I guess.

• 1:54:29Jocko Willink?

  I'll have a double ringworm sandwich, please. Don't eat these grains, potatoes, refined salt, refined sugar, processed oils. Right? So it's just. Basic stuff. Let's not get crazy.

• 1:54:48Jocko Willink?

  Fasting, talk about fasting. This section starts off news flash. You don't have to eat.

• 1:54:56Jocko Willink?

  Fasting is a gift. Actually, my wrestling, my middle daughter that wrestled. She told me she would think about this because when she would be cutting weight. She'd be thinking, she would think, I talk about in here, you know, the human body can live for a long time. Here we go. Humans can survive 30 days without food. You can make it an extra few hours. You can actually make it a few days without any issue. I fast 24 hours regularly. I do 72 hours fast approximately every three months. And you know what? They aren't that big of a deal. When I'm fasting, I still do everything I would normally do if I were eating. I work, I work out, I train jujitsu.

• 1:55:33Jocko Willink?

  I drink water, some tea, maybe eat some sunflower seeds. People freak out, "You're not fasting, you ate a sunflower seed." That's what I do.

• 1:55:42Jocko Willink?

  Like, take it easy.

• 1:55:46Jocko Willink?

  So I have something to chew on, but fasting isn't that hard and you will feel better at the end of it. This is my favorite thing. Fasting will recalibrate what hunger is to you. You'll realize that you aren't actually hungry most of the time. You're just bored. And at the end of a fast, your food will taste better too. That is a factual, beautiful thing. Food tastes good when you, uh, when you do that. So a whole section on fasting and a bunch of benefits from that. Got a section here, dealing with injuries and illness. You are going to get injured. You are going to get sick. Regardless of how careful you are in training, how clean you eat and how healthy you live, you are still human. Injuries and illness will occur.

• 1:56:29Jocko Willink?

  My theory for overcoming injuries and illness is simple. Do what you can. If you're sick or injured, don't use that as an excuse to skip workouts or stay in bed all day. Do what you can. Hurt your knee, work your upper body. Work the good leg. Hurt your shoulder, time to work on one arm pull-ups and push-ups. Focus on your core and legs until your shoulder heals up. Tendonitis from using your grip too much, sounds like it's time to focus on sprinting and jumping and plyometrics. Got a little cold, flu, same thing. Do what you can. Maybe just going for a walk, a couple sets of sit-ups and push-ups, but don't just stay in bed all day. Now, sometimes you get plain knocked out by illness or a virus. If it is that bad and your body absolutely needs rest, good.

• 1:57:14Jocko Willink?

  Listen to your body and take the rest. Also, don't bring your disease to the gym and spread it around. Work out at home. Same thing with injuries. If some injury prevents you from doing the physical things you like to do, good. Do what you can. Work on some skills you can do. Pick up a guitar, write a book, draw, paint, compose a song, blog, create, learn, do something. Take advantage of physical injuries and sickness by doing something you don't normally have time for. In other words, get after it.

• 1:57:47Jocko Willink?

  And I recently did that when I got covid. I was like, oh, cool. I can't, I can't literally leave my house, apparently.

• 1:57:54Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:57:55Jocko Willink?

  Not supposed to interact with anybody. So, and everybody kind of knew I had it. So I was like, cool. And I just like played guitar a bunch and started digging into a bunch. I've been, I've been playing guitar for 35 years and I've been at the same level for about 34 and a half years. And in the past two weeks, I've advanced tenfold on my understanding of guitar. So this isn't just me saying this, it's actually something to do.

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  The more you do that too, the more you get used to that protocol, you know, where you know how like sometimes like your workouts or your whatever is like, that's like your, your main jam, like, and then you get hurt and then you're all, you know, you can get depressed or just be so unhappy that you're out of game. Can't train jujitsu and people get off.

• 1:58:44Jocko Willink?

  It's awful.

• 1:58:44Speaker 01

  But if you're used to that protocol where it's like it, it essentially opens up opportunity for new developments and growth, you know, for yourself. Literally making you a better person, right? So if that becomes a protocol, a normal protocol, when you get injured, it's automatic. You're like, okay, I'm injured. Hey, whatever junk, but whatever. And then this protocol kind of ensues.

• 1:59:03Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:59:03Speaker 01

  And then boom, you're kind of like, you're kind of into that for a little bit.

• 1:59:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, because getting injured.

• 1:59:10Jocko Willink?

  It, it's for people like you, for people like me that are really like do physical stuff. Getting injured is so horrible.

• 1:59:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:18Jocko Willink?

  But I, I, I will say I have this protocol where I'm like, oh, cool. Uh, when I, when I, do you remember when I hurt my elbow? Like Dean wrecked my elbow. I mean, I was in a sling. I've never been to sling in my life, but like the next day, or maybe it was one day later. Like at first I couldn't even do anything.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:37Jocko Willink?

  But then I was in doing one arm kettlebell swing, snatches and stuff. And I was like, okay, cool. We're just gonna work through this. It'll get better over time. That's what it's gonna take, but whatever.

• 1:59:46Speaker 01

  It's like a cut, like even.

• 1:59:47Jocko Willink?

  Couldn't play guitar though.

• 1:59:49Speaker 01

  Dang bro, brutal. The initiating, like the first thing you do is essentially see what you can do and can't do. And then from there, you just go forward where it's like, yeah, you do what you can physically, but we know that's not going to be, it's hard to be like mentally on that same level as far as like your enthusiasm to pursue workouts or jujitsu, whatever, when you're just doing what you can do, especially if it's a significant injury. But if you can do this other stuff now, you know, you can focus on other stuff or whatever you have like, yeah, man, you just kind of expand who you are, new mission.

• 2:00:22Jocko Willink?

  New mission.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  New mission, straight up.

• 2:00:26Jocko Willink?

  There's a whole section, like I said, appendix is just all kinds of workouts from beginner workouts that literally any human being can do to advanced workouts that will crush whoever. And they're all written down in there. And then, well, let me just read the last page of this book. Let's give it away, the spoiler.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 2:00:49Jocko Willink?

  The section's called do. And it says, don't just read this book. Don't just listen to the podcast. Don't just watch videos online. Don't just take notes. Don't just study them. Don't just share them with your friends. Don't just plan. Don't just mark your calendar. Don't just get motivated. Don't just talk. Don't just think. Don't just dream. No. None of that matters. The only thing that matters is that you actually do. So.

• 2:01:33Jocko Willink?

  Do.

• 2:01:38Jocko Willink?

  And there you go.

• 2:01:41Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's the book and.

• 2:01:46Jocko Willink?

  You know, I think that this book, obviously, as I started off, this book is something that anyone can use. It's something that I actually use, something that I have used in dire situations to help me and something that I use on a daily situation to help me, something that something that we could all use

• 2:02:09Jocko Willink?

  to look at, to remind us, to keep us on the path. It's a very presence sends a message. Do you like that? It's very presence sends a message.

• 2:02:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do like that. Thank you.

• 2:02:22Jocko Willink?

  Just there, it's looking at you,

• 2:02:25Jocko Willink?

  sending a message and the message is

• 2:02:29Jocko Willink?

  discipline equals freedom.

• 2:02:33Jocko Willink?

  So get after it.

• 2:02:36Jocko Willink?

  So Echo, we, we want to get after it. Do you have any recommendations on how we do that or how we can keep doing that?

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  But this book is like the ultimate, like

• 2:02:52Speaker 01

  New Year's book. You know, people, they'll make like the New Year's

• 2:02:57Speaker 01

  you know,

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  but usually, because you know how they say like a lot of most whatever, I don't know that number, like resolutions, they'll fail after whatever amount of time.

• 2:03:06Jocko Willink?

  Seven days.

• 2:03:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, some something. Yeah. But think, when you think about it, when you have the manual,

• 2:03:14Speaker 01

  you don't have to, it doesn't have to fail. Like you just refer to the manual. It's a, you know, it's a thing rather than let's face it, it was

• 2:03:26Speaker 01

  like when you make a New Year's resolution, it's kind of like, oh, I just sort of intend to get in shape. You don't have a path, a plan, a fully laid out deal. Yeah. You just have an intention. Boom. You got it right there. You know, it's like one of those things. In fact, I would argue that if you're like, okay, this is my, kind of like I was saying with the owner's manual of a car, if you just, if you have this and you treat it as your owner's manual for your New Year's resolution.

• 2:03:54Jocko Willink?

  Or for your life in general.

• 2:03:55Speaker 01

  It should be for your life in general. Yes. But I'm saying if you want to slide it in and have it serve that particular purpose for the moment.

• 2:04:03Jocko Willink?

  I like, you know what I think is cool is giving it to someone.

• 2:04:08Jocko Willink?

  Give the gift of discipline.

• 2:04:12Jocko Willink?

  Give the gift of discipline. Discipline equals freedom. Field manual. Mark one motto. Oh, by the way, the name of this is Mark one motto. That's a military term. It's when they modify things. So Mark one is like, this is the first model of it, then mod one is the first modification.

• 2:04:29Speaker 01

  The first mod that they make.

• 2:04:31Jocko Willink?

  So there's a modification to this one. My head is bigger on the cover.

• 2:04:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a mod right there. Wait, wait, what, wait, what is Mark one? What is Mark?

• 2:04:38Jocko Willink?

  Mark one is, it's like a, it's like a model number.

• 2:04:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:42Jocko Willink?

  But they just call it a mark.

• 2:04:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:44Jocko Willink?

  It's in the Navy.

• 2:04:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it's in cameras as well. So you got the cannon. So cannon five D mark. I'm going to the ones that I have.

• 2:04:55Speaker 01

  Mark one. Okay, so cannon five D mark one. Then there's mark two, and then there's mark three.

• 2:05:01Jocko Willink?

  Got it. Yeah. So they could have said Mark one, and if they made like small changes to it, probably be mod one. If they did like a full revamp, then it's Mark two.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:12Jocko Willink?

  So you could get, you know, a weapon system.

• 2:05:15Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:05:16Jocko Willink?

  That is the Mark one. It's the, but then they add a new front sight to it. You're like, okay, this is Mark one, mod one. And then they add a new rear sight. And it's like, oh, Mark one, mod two. So you can keep doing that. So this, this field manual. And what's cool, I will say,

• 2:05:33Jocko Willink?

  I, I have a lot of, what is it? Creative control. So my publisher, I said, yeah, it's gonna be Mark one, mod one. What's, they're like, they don't even have any idea what this is. I might as well say the googly blue. They have no idea what I'm talking about, but they go with it. So credit.

• 2:05:48Speaker 01

  It does sound cool. Mark one, mod one.

• 2:05:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Well, I'm glad you think it sounds cool.

• 2:05:52Speaker 01

  Better than. Tactical. Uh, what the, uh, mark, okay, so you, you would actually, not to spend, go too deep on this Mark one, mod one. Workings. But, okay, so what, what's a, cause you said the guns before, something Mark one, like what, which gun?

• 2:06:11Jocko Willink?

  No, we don't. The guns are actually army weapons system. Mark is from like the Navy.

• 2:06:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you like, what was the, okay, what machine gun did you carry?

• 2:06:23Jocko Willink?

  Why care, M4?

• 2:06:24Speaker 01

  M4, there you go, that was the one I was thinking.

• 2:06:26Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah, in the army, it's just M, though, it's not mark.

• 2:06:28Speaker 01

  Oh, so M4 is mark four?

• 2:06:30Jocko Willink?

  No, no.

• 2:06:31Speaker 01

  M4 is the gun, and then it's mark one, right?

• 2:06:34Jocko Willink?

  No, they don't, they don't do it with guns.

• 2:06:35Speaker 01

  They just say.

• 2:06:36Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's like a more of a Navy term.

• 2:06:38Speaker 01

  Gotcha. Well, they do it with cameras, straight up.

• 2:06:41Jocko Willink?

  They have a boat called the mark five.

• 2:06:44Speaker 01

  Okay. Alright, well, I'm gonna leave that to the Navy and the weapon system scenario and cameras, by the way, because I don't know if they have a grasp on it yet, but I'll tell you what I do have a grasp on, is how we can all stay, stay on the path, or get on the path if you're not on the path already.

• 2:07:05Speaker 01

  When you're on the path, you're gonna find out that it's hard. It's not always easy. It's actually not even always hard, technically. But it does get hard from time to time. Sometimes you need assistance, sometimes you need supplementation. It's true. Jaco has us covered, Jaco Fuel. Okay, so if you, if your joints are in need of supplementation, we got joint supplements, joint warfare, what's called this first one, super krill oil, it's the second one, for your joints. Boom, you wanna blend into immunity stuff, we got vitamin D3. Also, Cold War. Boom, joints, immunity, covered. Don't even think about those anymore.

• 2:07:48Speaker 01

  Put that into your daily discipline routine, every morning, or every night, whatever. Boom, you don't gotta worry about that kind of stuff anymore. Also, discipline. And discipline, go. Now, this is a cognitive supplement, similar to what sleep does, really. You talked about brain derived nootropic factor number 99, or whatever you're saying. It's kind of the same thing.

• 2:08:13Jocko Willink?

  This is number 100.

• 2:08:14Speaker 01

  Go on 100, mark, mark 100 over here. Either way, it's kind of the same thing, really.

• 2:08:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, 100%, bro.

• 2:08:24Jocko Willink?

  Coming at me with some hardcore bro science. I hit you with bro science today. You're coming back at me. I like it.

• 2:08:29Speaker 01

  Amen. It's part of the game. It's all part of the game. Nonetheless, so discipline, discipline go, you know, enhance your mind helps your cognitive abilities and physical abilities, by the way, many different modes.

• 2:08:39Jocko Willink?

  That you, um, what was the term you, oh, get you primed, right? Is that what the word you said? Primed?

• 2:08:44Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 2:08:45Jocko Willink?

  Get the cognitive, physical, mental priming going on. Get your, get a can of discipline. Go get the, get the pill, get the powder.

• 2:08:52Speaker 01

  So before workouts, I like the powder for that priming effect because there's, there's regular priming and then there's like the secondary priming effect, maybe, or, or maybe more accurately put the psychological priming effect. Cause you know, you mix up the little discipline, mix, mega mix, whatever, mix it up. And when you're drinking it, it's like your mind is just getting ready, ready psychologically. Not to mention all the physiological benefits, you know what I'm saying? So it's like one on top of the other. Anyway, it's part of the game. But if you want to replace your current energy drink problem, that's what it is.

• 2:09:32Jocko Willink?

  Oh, it definitely is. No, not even potentially. It's a problem. It's a problem. If you're drinking energy drinks, normal energy, it's a problem.

• 2:09:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:09:40Jocko Willink?

  It's a problem. You're getting sugar, you're getting an overdose of caffeine, you're getting a bunch of chemicals in there that they use to preserve it. There's, it is a, absolutely. It's a problem.

• 2:09:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. I was going to talk about this, you know, I'm going to do it. I'm going to talk about it. So anyway, my kids watch this show. I think it's called Victorious. The show, you'll never know this show ever.

• 2:10:01Jocko Willink?

  Yep. I.

• 2:10:01Speaker 01

  No, no, no. Your youngest daughter might actually watch it.

• 2:10:04Jocko Willink?

  I, you said, I will never know it. And I said, yes, I will not, I do not know.

• 2:10:07Speaker 01

  You might overhear it or whatever. Anyway, it's kind of a funny little show called Victorious. Uh, Ariana Grande's in it and Tor. Tori.

• 2:10:17Jocko Willink?

  Don't look at me for help.

• 2:10:18Speaker 01

  Come on, you know, you know, Tori, so anyway, they're anyway. Um, and so here's, here's, here's the issue with all their, not the issue.

• 2:10:27Jocko Willink?

  He's a complex story.

• 2:10:29Speaker 01

  Kind of. I'm trying to remember why even brought up, but okay, this is why. So.

• 2:10:32Jocko Willink?

  Bye.

• 2:10:33Speaker 01

  Every time there's like a brand in there, they do a real, they do a good job, but it's real obvious what brand they're portraying. But like, okay, they'll have an Apple computer, but it, and it looks like an Apple computer, but instead of an apple, it's a pear.

• 2:10:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:45Speaker 01

  So like, instead of like AirPods, they'll have PearPods, you know, like it's real obvious, right? They do that with the brands. They'll have a generic version of the brand just throughout the show, right? One episode, there, this one was actually a kind of like a little political episode, almost. Little freedom situation. So they had this drink. It was soda called Blue Dog. Blue Dog drink. And then a guy from the FBI, the Federal Bureau of Interference came in and said, hey, we're getting rid of all. It's we're banning it prohibition style. We're taking off all the shelves. And all the kids waged and before they waged this campaign against, hey, it's if it's freedom, you know, like people, you know, you shouldn't ban it for everyone.

• 2:11:30Speaker 01

  Just because certain people can't make choices, whatever, good choices, whatever. But what they did was they started making their own knockoff red dog soda and then they got busted and then anyway, it was a thing, right? Here's the thing, here's the point.

• 2:11:42Jocko Willink?

  I hope so.

• 2:11:44Speaker 01

  We know what red or not red dogs, sorry, blue dog, you know what brand they're portraying.

• 2:11:49Jocko Willink?

  Yes, I think that's pretty.

• 2:11:50Speaker 01

  Probably some energy drink scenarios going on, right? That's what they're, they're talking about. Um, so with our current in real life, energy drink scenario, hey, we have the freedom to drink whatever we want to drink. But I think it would benefit everyone, including yourself to make the right choice with that freedom. Now, if energy drinks are your weakness, hey, that's no problem now. Now it's not a problem. You just switch over to the disciplined goat in a can. Fills all the good energy drink criteria and there's not many, but it fulfills all of them, which is you get some energy from it, but now instead of killing yourself at the same

• 2:12:32Speaker 01

  time, literally, by the way, slowly, literally, you're helping yourself and improving your health.

• 2:12:39Jocko Willink?

  Well, I would love to add something to this, but uh, no one's listening anymore. I think we just burned through the rest of this.

• 2:12:48Speaker 01

  I'll guarantee.

• 2:12:49Jocko Willink?

  You can get this stuff at originmaine.com. You can get this stuff at, at the vitamin shop. You can get this stuff at, you can get the drinks at Wawa. By the way, we'll be live in Wawa, whole east coast, every store, January 4th. Epic. That's due in large part to troopers in Florida that went into the Wawa's and cleared shelves. Keep it up. Keep it up. Because from Wawa, when, when other stores see what we're doing in Wawa, we'll get nationwide to now east coast, west coast. If you're on the east coast and you're going to Wawa, clear it out. Support. So that way, west coast stores, who knows which one it'll be, that will, they'll get it in there and we'll start to do what we, what we like to call a world takeover.

• 2:13:33Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:13:34Jocko Willink?

  Get rid of, and we will get rid of Blue Dog.

• 2:13:36Speaker 01

  Yep. Blue Dog.

• 2:13:38Jocko Willink?

  And the rest of them with their weird colors.

• 2:13:41Speaker 01

  We don't want to rely on the federal bureau of interference to get rid of unhealthy stuff.

• 2:13:48Jocko Willink?

  We're just all want to let the market do it.

• 2:13:50Speaker 01

  Yes. Making good decisions. That's what we want to do.

• 2:13:53Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 2:13:54Speaker 01

  Also milk, protein in the form of a dessert, straight up. My little son, four years old, said, can I have some milk out of the blue? It's like, sure, I'm not going to argue with that one.

• 2:14:03Jocko Willink?

  Gee, do I want you to get stronger, better, smarter, healthier? Let me think about it. Yes, I do. Let's do this.

• 2:14:11Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. We do. Yes. So yeah, get on that, man. Some extra protein when you're lifting. Good deal. Also Jaco White Tea, refreshing, certified organic.

• 2:14:21Jocko Willink?

  Kind of drinking some right now as a matter of fact, I don't know if you noticed that.

• 2:14:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:14:24Jocko Willink?

  It's been a little chilly out here in California and for those of you up in Wisconsin, by chilly, I mean about sixty-four degrees.

• 2:14:30Speaker 01

  That is technically chilly. See what I'm saying? Uh, I have, I didn't notice you drinking that, you know why? Cause you're always drinking that stuff and after a while, you just don't notice anymore. It's kind of pretty. In fact, I would probably not even recognize you if you're not drinking that kind of stuff. Nonetheless, yes, vitamin shop, wah wah, all available, origin main dot com, available, all this stuff. Also on origin main dot com is jujitsu stuff, gis rash guards. If you're still doing jujitsu, right? Get a origin mingi.

• 2:14:57Jocko Willink?

  Well, you should be doing, and if you heard me talking about the jujitsu today, you probably realize it's something you should start immediately. And you're gonna need a gi, you're gonna need some rash guards. And listen, when you're not on the mats of justice, you're still gonna need clothing to wear. You're gonna need things to put on your body, things to put on your, your legs, things to put on your feet. We got those things too. We got Delta jeans, best jeans ever, most comfortable jeans ever. We got boots.

• 2:15:28Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, the boots do have a name, Lincoln. Do you have Lincoln boots?

• 2:15:32Speaker 01

  I don't know, maybe.

• 2:15:33Jocko Willink?

  The Lincoln boots have like a toe cap on them.

• 2:15:36Speaker 01

  Wait, what do you mean a toe?

• 2:15:37Jocko Willink?

  Like a leather, an additional piece of le, piece of leather sewn over the toe.

• 2:15:41Speaker 01

  Externally?

• 2:15:41Jocko Willink?

  Externally.

• 2:15:42Speaker 01

  Oh, that name, yeah, no, no, I don't have that.

• 2:15:44Jocko Willink?

  Other ones are just called, I forget what the, I forget the name of the other ones.

• 2:15:50Speaker 01

  Roosevelt?

• 2:15:51Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no, that's interesting. Pete, you just got an F in product naming.

• 2:15:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:15:59Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 2:15:59Speaker 01

  Me or Pete?

• 2:16:00Jocko Willink?

  No, Pete.

• 2:16:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, cause it's memorable.

• 2:16:02Jocko Willink?

  Why didn't I remember it?

• 2:16:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know that those last boots had a name.

• 2:16:09Jocko Willink?

  They had to have had a name. Pete names, you know, he likes that kind of stuff, right?

• 2:16:13Speaker 01

  Pete names his parking spot.

• 2:16:15Jocko Willink?

  Pete names his parking spot. It's like, this is the, what would he name his parking spot?

• 2:16:20Jocko Willink?

  The intergalactic parking space of justice.

• 2:16:28Speaker 01

  Brother jeans funny. So my birthday was recently whatever and my wife buys me some jeans. So I'm like, cool. She's like, I'm like, hey, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm probably not gonna wear this. She's like, well, you need variety or whatever. You only wear those origin jeans all the time, every single time. Origin or jeans. So just some variety or whatever. So I'm like, whatever. She's like, hey, don't be ignorant. And not try them on. Okay. So I'm like, all right. Hey, I don't want to be ignorant. Okay. I prefer not to be ignorant. We'll say that. So I try them on. I'm like, okay, they fit good. But I'm not gonna wear these jeans. Never gonna wear these jeans. Not the same. Why would I ever wear some non-origin jeans at this point?

• 2:17:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Like I said the other day, your iconic jeans that your wife got you for your birthday.

• 2:17:13Jocko Willink?

  They're made by slave labor. I mean, factually, right? So we're not supporting that. We're trying to rebuild America.

• 2:17:21Speaker 01

  It's hard. Yeah.

• 2:17:23Jocko Willink?

  So go to, go to originmaine.com if you want any of this stuff. If you want to help America.

• 2:17:30Jocko Willink?

  Rebuild its manufacturing capability. We're doing it and we appreciate everyone getting on board, supporting. And we're just the beginning. We're just the beginning. So, thank you.

• 2:17:41Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. Also, Jaco has a store you want to represent while we are on this path. Go to jacostore.com. We got some shirts, discipline equals freedom shirts, some good shirts.

• 2:17:56Jocko Willink?

  Literally good shirts.

• 2:17:57Speaker 01

  Literally. They're good and they say good on them and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So and also get after it. You know, these shirts, hoodies, hats.

• 2:18:04Jocko Willink?

  Shirts with mantras on them. I guess is what we're getting at.

• 2:18:06Speaker 01

  Some mantra shirts.

• 2:18:07Jocko Willink?

  Since I'm Mr. Mantra, apparently.

• 2:18:09Speaker 01

  But technically, it's, we don't have too many mantras.

• 2:18:13Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:18:14Speaker 01

  It's, you know, it's the basic stuff. Anyway, it's just a good way to represent. Got some hats on there as well. Uh, some women's stuff. Also. On jocko store.com. We have a exclusive. I'm using that word loosely, but it's a club currently called the T-shirt club. Okay. I get, we don't like that name.

• 2:18:34Jocko Willink?

  Super original.

• 2:18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. I made that name up too. Cause I was like, I'm just

• 2:18:37Jocko Willink?

  You went deep into the creative zone for that one.

• 2:18:40Speaker 01

  I tried to pull a jocko.

• 2:18:41Jocko Willink?

  That's the worst name I've ever heard.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  That's, that's weird how that backfired on me, huh?

• 2:18:45Jocko Willink?

  It's weird. What's weird is when, when I come up with a name that's sort of like what it is.

• 2:18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:49Jocko Willink?

  It's cool. When you come up with a name that's sort of what it is, it's lame.

• 2:18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:54Jocko Willink?

  I mean, like leadership, strategy and tactics field manual. That is the, that is what this book is.

• 2:18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:59Jocko Willink?

  This is the leadership, leadership, strategy and tactics field manual. That's what the book is. That's what I called the book. There you go. Discipline equals freedom field manual.

• 2:19:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:06Jocko Willink?

  That, what do we name the book? Discipline equals freedom field manual. Done. Uh, Jocko white tea. What do we call it? Oh, we're gonna call it white tea. Are we gonna call it like ancient whatever? No, we're calling it Jocko white tea. So then you try this and it comes out T-shirt club.

• 2:19:21Speaker 01

  All right, bruh. See? And here's the thing. I mean, you, you didn't have to say it like that. You did, and that's fine. But at the end of the day, you are correct. If I tried to pull a jocko, I'm not jocko. Straight up.

• 2:19:33Jocko Willink?

  Now, now you're making me feel bad for beating the defenseless child.

• 2:19:36Speaker 01

  Hey, you're gonna feel how you're gonna feel, you know? But nonetheless, it is a club. It is for T-shirts. You get a shirt every week. Unique. You can get discipline.

• 2:19:45Jocko Willink?

  A shirt every week?

• 2:19:46Speaker 01

  Sorry. I meant to say unique and I said week. I meant month. Every month you get a shirt. They're, they're different than the discipline equals freedom, except for, except they do have hints and flavors of discipline equals freedom in that one. Anyway, they're just a little bit different, a bit cooler, a little bit, a few more layers on each one. Anyway, if you want to check it out, it's a good one. Um, yeah. T-shirt club on jocko store.com.

• 2:20:10Jocko Willink?

  You can get some of that warrior kid soap there too.

• 2:20:12Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 2:20:12Jocko Willink?

  From Irish Oak Ranch. Uh, subscribe to the podcasts if you haven't. We also got some other podcasts. Jocko unraveling, which used to be called the thread. We got the grounded podcast, which we should have just recorded when we were talking with Dean Lisch.

• 2:20:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:25Jocko Willink?

  Uh, warrior kid podcast. I know I, oh, I know.

• 2:20:30Jocko Willink?

  Youtube channel, subscribe to the Youtube channel if you want to see Echo Charles's expressing himself through the visual medium of video. And believe me, he is definitely doing that as to the extreme in many cases.

• 2:20:49Speaker 01

  Some cases.

• 2:20:50Jocko Willink?

  In some cases, exploring people's patience to watch CGI.

• 2:20:56Speaker 01

  Yes, I do it technically, I do explore people's patience. Okay, good way to put that.

• 2:21:05Jocko Willink?

  And I'm the assistant director by the way on all these things, which is more important. I got an album called Psychological Warfare. It's an iTunes album. You can listen to me kind of just pulling you through some maybe scenarios of weakness that you might be having, might be having. And also, this, the book Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual is also available as an album. That's, we wanted you to be able to use it for an alarm, or just be able to press play. So that's on wherever you find your MP3s. And then don't forget about Dakota Meyer's got flipsidecanvas.com selling a bunch of cool stuff to hang on your wall that will keep you on the path. Books, got a bunch of books, obviously Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, this is the new version.

• 2:21:48Jocko Willink?

  This, you can get it, I think if you order ASAP, you can get it for the holiday season. Give the gift of discipline. No, I shouldn't say it like that. Give the gift of discipline. There we go. Give the gift of discipline. See, you could have made a cool advertisement like that. You didn't do nothing. You're gonna have explosions there. About Face by Hackworth. Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual, The Code, The Evaluation, The Protocols, Way of the Warrior Kid 4 is also out, another field manual. And that's sort of like the operating manual for a kid.

• 2:22:24Jocko Willink?

  You can get that, you better order that ASAP if that's gonna come for the Christmas gift. And, and once again, what, the only thing better than giving the gift of discipline to yourself or your friends is giving the gift of discipline to a kid. Putting them on the right path, that's the way the Warrior Kid 4 field manual. There's also way the Warrior Kid 1, 2, and 3, there's also Mike and the Dragons. There's also Extreme Ownership and the Dichotomy of Leadership. We have Echelon Front, which is a leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. Go to echelonfront.com if you want that. We have EF Online, which is totally revamped. We're doing live Q and As. We got a forum on there, we got leadership primers, we got immediate action drills. We got all kinds of things and I'm on there all the time answering questions. So is the rest of the Echelon Front team.

• 2:23:08Jocko Willink?

  If you want to come check that out, efonline.com. We got the muster coming in 2021. Phoenix, March 3rd and 4th. Orlando, Florida, May 25th and 26th. And Las Vegas, October 28th and 29th. Check extremeownership.com. We're almost through with this COVID crap. The vaccines here. These things, we didn't do any last year. We canceled all of them, so everyone's gonna come this year, they're gonna sell out. Come and get it. EF Overwatch, if you need executive leadership inside your company,

• 2:23:40Jocko Willink?

  then go to efoverwatch.com. And if you want to help service members, active and retired, if you want to help their families, if you want to help Gold Star families, then check out Mark Lee's mom. She's got a charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to AmericasMightyWarriors.org.

• 2:23:59Jocko Willink?

  And if you just, if you just feel the need to suffer, if that's what you're feeling,

• 2:24:07Jocko Willink?

  well, we can offer you that suffering. If you need, if you need more of my repressive rants, or you need more of Echo's perplexing pontifications, and you've certainly got your share of those today, but if you want more, you can connect with us on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram, which is, just so Echo knows what I'm talking about, he calls it the Gram, and on Facebook. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. And thanks to all the folks out there in uniform that are protecting the free world. We are able to do what we do because of what you do. And thanks to police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service and all first responders.

• 2:24:48Jocko Willink?

  Your daily life is a sacrifice to keep us safe and secure here at home. And we thank you. And to everyone else out there. We all want freedom. Of course, we all want freedom. Freedom is the most fundamental desire for human beings to be able to do what we want to do, to have control over our own destiny. We want to be free. But freedom, true freedom, only comes from discipline. So get yourself on the path.

• 2:25:29Jocko Willink?

  Get yourself on the path to health, the path to happiness, the path to success, the path to freedom. And that path is the path of discipline. It is the way of discipline. Get on it and get after it. Discipline equals freedom. And until next time, this is Echo and Jaco. Out.