185: We Only Get One Shot, So Fight The Good Fight and Make it Count, with Mitch Aguiar

0:00:00 - Opening 0:02:16 - Mitch Aguiar. SEAL. MMA Fighter. 2:07:44 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:11:00 - Support: How to stay on THE PATH. 2:38:21 - Closing Gratitude Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 185 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening.

• 0:11Jocko Willink?

  You get one shot.

• 0:16Jocko Willink?

  And that's it.

• 0:19Jocko Willink?

  And in the end, you're going into the ground.

• 0:26Jocko Willink?

  Regardless of what you believe the afterlife consists of, or what it doesn't consist of.

• 0:34Jocko Willink?

  As far as what you get to hold on to, once you leave here is nothing.

• 0:42Jocko Willink?

  And I implore people all the time.

• 0:49Jocko Willink?

  To make it count.

• 0:53Jocko Willink?

  Cause this is it.

• 0:56Jocko Willink?

  This is the finals.

• 1:01Jocko Willink?

  There are no re-dos. You can't hit the rewind button.

• 1:09Jocko Willink?

  And even worse, you can't even hit the pause button.

• 1:15Jocko Willink?

  There's no way you can stop the clock from ticking.

• 1:21Jocko Willink?

  No possible way. The countdown is on.

• 1:26Jocko Willink?

  And the days are finite.

• 1:31Jocko Willink?

  You only get so many.

• 1:37Jocko Willink?

  And then it's over.

• 1:42Jocko Willink?

  So until them.

• 1:46Jocko Willink?

  Make them count.

• 1:48Jocko Willink?

  Make all of them count.

• 1:52Jocko Willink?

  And on the podcast today, I have a guest, a fellow frogman, whom to the best of my knowledge is doing his best to make his days count. His name is Mitch Aguiar, and we just met each other. But like I said, he's a frogman. He likes jujitsu. He likes to get after it. So my guess is we should have some things to talk about.

• 2:21Jocko Willink?

  So Mitch, welcome to the podcast.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:24Jocko Willink?

  Good, good to meet you.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, good to meet you as well.

• 2:27Jocko Willink?

  Fifteen minutes ago.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:29Jocko Willink?

  Picked you up at the airport. I think we linked up some way on social media.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 2:35Jocko Willink?

  And you are in the AO, doing some training. And so here you are, cool. Where'd you grow up?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  I grew up in Virginia Beach and then was there till about 11, then moved to Maryland and live with my dad, was there till about 16.

• 2:55Jocko Willink?

  So wait, grew up in Virginia Beach, parents in the military?

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Yep, my mom and dad were both in the Navy.

• 3:00Jocko Willink?

  Both in the NAV?

• 3:01Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 3:02Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  And my mom was an OS and my dad was a combat cameraman with a dev group.

• 3:10Jocko Willink?

  Okay, right on. And, and so then you were there until you said you were 11?

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was in Virginia Beach till I was 11. They were divorced and my dad had gotten out of the Navy and was living up in Maryland, working at the Aberdeen Proving Ground.

• 3:25Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  And doing high speed photography there and, you know, filming tank rounds and all kinds of cool explosives and stuff like that.

• 3:34Jocko Willink?

  And he had like a wicked cool job before it was cool.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  A wicked cool job, yeah. And so I went up there and lived with him for a while and then around 16, moved up to Ohio. My mom had moved up to Ohio. My stepdad was also in the Navy and he had gotten out and they'd started a business up in Ohio and I went and lived with her up there and finished out high school in Ohio. 10th or yeah, 10th, 11th, 12th grade. And then join the Navy from there.

• 4:09Jocko Willink?

  What, what, uh, what was high school like? What sports were you playing?

• 4:12Speaker 01

  I was playing, uh, football, basketball, lacrosse, and, uh, yeah. That was it.

• 4:19Jocko Willink?

  Were you good? Were you a good athlete?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  I was a, a good athlete and I was also into, uh, some, uh, sports that weren't at our school. I was on a arm wrestling team and, uh, dodgeball team, like a traveling dodgeball team.

• 4:34Jocko Willink?

  A traveling dodgeball team?

• 4:35Speaker 01

  It was, it was by far my favorite.

• 4:40Jocko Willink?

  How, like, how, how many games would you play in dodgeball?

• 4:44Speaker 01

  In a day?

• 4:44Jocko Willink?

  No, in like a season. What's the season? The dodgeball season?

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Well, you know, there's practice, obviously, and, uh, if, if you take it serious like we did, uh, we, we practiced like three times a week and then we, we would, uh, travel on the weekends for tournaments.

• 5:03Jocko Willink?

  What balls do you use?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Uh, we would, some, some leagues are different, uh, but mainly it's those kick balls that you see.

• 5:09Jocko Willink?

  So like the red rubber ones?

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:13Jocko Willink?

  How many people are on the team, each side?

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Um, there was, it was like six or seven people per team or, and then we had like a couple substitutes, you know?

• 5:25Jocko Willink?

  In case there was injuries?

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Injuries, you know, just like any other sport, man. You had your, uh, first string, starters.

• 5:33Jocko Willink?

  And then you, but you didn't wrestle?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  I did not wrestle. I didn't wrestle. I didn't, uh, run cross country. I didn't swim. I didn't do anything in high school that would, uh, be useful in my ongoing adventures.

• 5:49Jocko Willink?

  Well, football, basketball, I mean, you're becoming an athlete.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure. Like, uh, just in general, I would, well, I would say that competition mindset, you know? Um, that and just, yeah, being an athlete overall, uh, that was always something that was just ingrained in me, you know, my, both my mom and dad and they were really competitive, like always had us in sports. Growing up, my brother and I and, um, Yeah, I always loved the competition side of things, you know, and I I actually like hate working out still to this day like I just I don't really enjoy it, but if if there's some sort of com- competition involved in it or you know competitiveness, that's that's what I really like.

• 6:37Jocko Willink?

  Sure. So you get done with high school, you're and you what makes you join the Navy?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Um, honestly, I was I was just bored. Uh, I was living in Ohio and it sucked there and uh, there was just nothing there that I wanted.

• 6:55Jocko Willink?

  How long after you graduated high school, did you join the Navy?

• 6:58Speaker 01

  A couple of months.

• 6:59Jocko Willink?

  Did you? Did you go in the dive ferre program to be in the teams or did you just want to be in just in the Navy?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  No, I originally, um, I mean, it it it wasn't planned out at all. Uh, I was I was working three different jobs. Uh, I was a uh, a roofer, which I really, really loved. That was that was a great job. And, um, I worked at my my parents, like they owned a deli slash convenience store kind of thing. I worked there and I was, um, a lifeguard at Kalahari and I and I was a surf instructor.

• 7:36Jocko Willink?

  You said Kalahari? I don't even know.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  It's it's an indoor, it's the world's largest indoor water park.

• 7:41Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay. And they have waves there?

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have a flow rider, like a couple of flow rider machines.

• 7:46Jocko Willink?

  Oh, the thing that shoots water up the plastic?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:50Jocko Willink?

  Type thing?

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it creates an artificial wave. So I would, uh, I was on the competition team and I would like give people lessons on how to ride that thing.

• 7:59Jocko Willink?

  So between that and dodgeball, you were kind of dialed in for some for some action?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 8:08Jocko Willink?

  That's a good setup. So you recommend if someone wants to get a career of special operations, they focus on dodgeball?

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Arm wrestling and and surfing.

• 8:17Jocko Willink?

  Awesome.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Pretty much a formula for success.

• 8:20Jocko Willink?

  Formula for success. And so you're you're you're doing these jobs and?

• 8:26Jocko Willink?

  You're you're not having a good time with.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I was, you know, um, not a very good, uh, uh, studious. Uh, student in high school, um, you know, uh, high school was more of like a socialization. For me, like, I really enjoyed, uh, going there to socialize. I really enjoyed, you know, making friends and I liked sports and, uh, and I was always, I always loved working and making money, you know, like, school is just kind of, uh, in the way. I'd kind of, you know, at the time, I just had zero interest in any sort of classwork whatsoever. And, um, I don't even understand how I somehow I I had graduated.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  And, um, then, you know, I was like, yeah, I'm definitely gonna do something in life. I don't know what. Um, I'm assuming it'll be good, though, you know, I I just don't know what it is. And and my teachers were kind of in that same, uh, mindset there, you know, half of them were just like, man, they're you're hopeless, like, there's, you're just gonna work at Burger King, whatever. And then the other halves were just like, yeah, you're gonna do something great. It's definitely not gonna be in school. You know, who knows what it is. And I was just kind of in that, you know, glass half full. Uh, I was thinking the same thing. And I didn't know what it was, honestly.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Like I said, I was roofing and I really loved, uh, roofing, but, yeah, you know, I was making minimal money. And, um, I knew that that wasn't going to be it. So I was in the area. I knew that nothing around the area interested me, you know, there was nothing that I wanted to pursue around there. I was young, I was eighteen. You know, my my mom and dad were both and my stepdad were were all in the Navy at at points in their life and, you know, had talked about the benefits of the military. My dad was always trying to get me to go in the military. And I just wasn't interested at all. And, um,

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was never really even a consideration until quite literally like I was just bored. And the recruiter happened to walk in, catch me and was like, hey, you wanna join the Navy? And I was like, sure, why not? And uh, and I was at first, I was going to do um, mastered arms. Like, I was like, oh, you know, I've always, I've always had like a kinda respect for police. Um, my grandfather's a police officer, my uncle is still a police officer. And that was something that I felt like, you know, was a courageous job and, and a helpful, useful one or whatever, you know, and I figured that I could, I've always been real protective as well.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  So like, I figured that job would kind of maybe be fitting for me. Um, so he, he had asked me, you know, hey, you wanna join the Navy? And I was like, okay. And then I thought I'll, I'll go that route. And uh, he was like, well, you look like you're in good shape. Do you wanna, you wanna be a SEAL? And I was like, uh, those are sneaky guys, you know? The, the, the only thing I knew about SEALs was uh, from that commercial where the, where the, they're on the beach, or it's a scene, it's on the beach and the clouds roll over the moon and then they, they pass and there's footprints, yeah. And so that's all I knew about Navy SEALs and I was like, oh, those guys must be sneaky.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  This was two thousand and seven.

• 12:13Jocko Willink?

  Jeez. So you're watching the wars are going on all through high school. You're seeing all that stuff take place.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Well, nine eleven happened when I was in seventh grade.

• 12:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  You were probably boots on ground or something there.

• 12:27Jocko Willink?

  Well, I mean, I was, I was um, yeah, I had been in for like eleven years at that point. Cause I joined in ninety, so.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  I was born in eighty-nine.

• 12:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. So I'm, I'm a little bit older than you are, apparently.

• 12:43Jocko Willink?

  So, so did you not, did you realize like, um, so this was your first kind of connection? Cause for me, when I was growing up, like every time some kind of war event happened, I was all bummed out that I wasn't there, cause I was too young. And that's just the way I was, I was always thinking about that. I was always into the military, but you were kinda like not.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  I was the total opposite. Like I, I wanted nothing to do with, with the military. I wanted nothing to do with, like I'd never even thought about it. Uh, my dad was just, you know, he was in and he was a combat cameraman with Dev Group. So obviously he was, you know, really involved with, with it. And, uh, anytime he would try and talk to me, I'm just like, I'm, I'm not interested. I'm not, not gonna join the fucking military.

• 13:32Jocko Willink?

  But you don't know, what, what flipped the switch? Just mega boredom?

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Just, just, I just, you know, I was like, well, worst case scenario, I know, and I'm in for, in the Navy for four years. I'll go see the world a little bit. I'll, you know, gain some life experience and worst case I get out and I'm fucking 22. Like who cares? I'm not going to college. I know that, you know, high school was, I barely made it through that and just not cause I was stupid, just cause I just, man.

• 14:06Jocko Willink?

  Wasn't your scene.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Oh my God. I'd rather do Hell Week 10 times in a row than write an essay, you know?

• 14:14Jocko Willink?

  So you get in the Navy and do you prepare at all? Like for?

• 14:20Speaker 01

  I had never run like further than a mile. And like I, all my sprint, all my sports stuff was all sprinting. I mean, those dodgeballs are only, you know?

• 14:30Jocko Willink?

  Dodgeball courts are small.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're, they're, they're short. So it's just, I was always a really fast sprinter. And, uh, that was kind of all I really cared about. I, I didn't even, I was also, I also like now looking back, how stupid I was and just how dumb you are at 18. Like you think you really like know, when you're 18, you really like, you're like, man. You know, you look back at when you're ten, and you're like, I know so much now, I just.

• 15:00Jocko Willink?

  Compared to my seven-year-old self.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Compared to my eight-year-old self, like, I didn't even know what I was doing. Now, I'm a, I'm a man. You know, I know what, what life's about. But at that point, obviously, now I'm thirty, looking back at that, I'm just like, man, you're so dumb. But I really was. And, uh, just really inexperienced with life. I'd never, like I said, run really further than a mile. Um, I didn't even understand, like, that people did that. I'd heard about, like, marathons and stuff, but, um, you know, I remember when, you know, when, when I had heard that I had to run, like, a mile and a half for the PST. I was just like, what in the fuck? Like, why? What? And then, and then, like,

• 15:43Speaker 01

  I told my dad that I signed up for the, the SEAL teams. And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna be a SEAL. And he's just like, you have no idea what you just signed up for. I didn't even know I had to go to BUDS. And then, uh, so he, he, I was just like, yeah, I'm gonna be a SEAL. What's wrong with that? And he, uh, he bought me the, the two, three, four documentary. And, um, we sat down and watched that. And I remember, like, just watching the, the four-mile timed run. And I was just thinking, like, is that even possible? Like, do people really do that? And I was just thinking, like, Jesus Christ, like, this is, I'm gonna have to do all of this shit?

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I better start running. I better start training.

• 16:32Jocko Willink?

  So did you start running and training?

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I, I went out and, uh, you know, actually, back up, before I even saw that, the first, um, the first introduction I had to BUDS was I, or Navy SEALs in general. Once I signed the, like, I signed up, and I was like, alright, I'm gonna be a Navy SEAL. I better do some research. So I went out and got Navy SEALs with Charlie Sheen. And I watched that. And that was my very first introduction to what Navy SEALs were. And I was just like, man, looks pretty intense. Pretty cool, though. And, uh,

• 17:09Speaker 01

  You know, in the scene, the scene in that movie, they say it's Bud's, but it's obviously not, cuz it's like in the woods and they're like, there's like grenades going off and they're like, they're like army crawling under barbed wire and, and he's like, this is Bud's, you know, like, it was just like this crazy scene or whatever. And I was just thinking like, damn, I gotta go through all that, alright, better, so I went out and bought some fucking camo pants. I bought some boots, like just leather boots.

• 17:38Jocko Willink?

  Uh huh.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  And um, there, and I went for a run uh, down my street. And I remember it was like a mile, or I did, I was like, I have to run a mile and a half, so I'm gonna see how this goes. And I, and I went and got those pants and got suited up. Fucking right. And I was just thinking like, oh man, this is gonna be hard. But, and then, and then my dad got the uh, the two, three, four documentary and, and then I was just like, oh, okay, I really just have no fucking idea what I just signed up for. And I was just thinking like, damn, that looks really hard. But I already told everyone that I was gonna do this. And I was just kind of that,

• 18:20Speaker 01

  you know, that's one good thing about being eighteen and you're just young and dumb and stubborn. And, you know, luckily I used the, the, the good of that to get through, I guess.

• 18:33Jocko Willink?

  So you get in the, I was gonna say.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  My, my, my, my uh, dive motivator was Mike Nos, do you know him?

• 18:41Jocko Willink?

  Yes, I, I know who it is, I don't, I don't know him personally, but.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Um, well, he's, he's an old Vietnam frogman, uh, plank owner at, at uh, Dam Neck and he, he came in and he's a tall guy and he walks with like a, kind of a, a big limp cuz he had like a hip replacement, he still swims like a fish. And uh, he actually taught me how to do the side stroke the day before my PST.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  So it was like pretty steep learning curve.

• 19:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's that is. I always tell people um not to make decisions when they're super emotional. And so I'm gonna start adding, don't make decisions when you're super just bored.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you might end up at Bud's.

• 19:27Jocko Willink?

  So you show up there, you show up to Bud's and you must have, you know, obviously you made it through. Was there any, what was your, what was tough for you in Bud's?

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Running, running was definitely, uh, I mean, obviously that's like what you do the most of and um. Man, it was just, I went from no running ever to running my ass off just everywhere and uh. And those timed runs, man, I was just fucking having a lot of conversations with with Jesus. Those runs and just, you know, giving it everything I fucking had just to make the cutoff on those on those runs. And then and then I eventually I became like a pretty good runner just from doing it and uh.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, I was I was for sure captain of the Goon Squad and uh, but luckily all those fucking dodgeball sprints were paying off in the Goon Squad. So it was, it was nice. Uh, in the Goon Squad, I felt comfortable.

• 20:28Jocko Willink?

  Did you get rolled for anything in Bud's?

• 20:29Speaker 01

  I got rolled um uh for uh some, I had real bad shin splints from

• 20:35Jocko Willink?

  From running.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  From the the lack of running previous and uh, but other, yeah, got rolled, dealt with that and like I said, I picked up like from running so much, I just got good at it and I was like young, so adapted well, I guess.

• 20:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's it pays to be young in Bud's, in my opinion.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:56Jocko Willink?

  From a physical perspective.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Physical, yeah, for sure with like dealing with uh overuse injuries. I mean, cause you're definitely gonna just.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  They're obviously just gonna fucking ream your ass and then you have to get up and go.

• 21:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I was talking to uh one of the medical guys there who came from like a sports environment like the, I think the NFL, was it the NFL, I think it was the NFL. And do you remember the, I think it's patella femoral syndrome, did you ever know anyone that got that there? Anyways, there's a bunch of people that get this, this, this patella femoral syndrome. You know, there, and he said, yeah, at Bud's, I would see ten cases a week of patella femoral syndrome. It's where your patella like rubs against your, your femur or something. And he said, in the NFL, you'd see like one of these every year, maybe one a year.

• 21:50Jocko Willink?

  And so these guys that would come to Bud's for, from a physical, what was it, athletic trainer perspective, would learn so much because they're just getting these, these bodies are just going through abuse like no other bodies. And so they see all those, all these common injuries that you get to your knees, your, your shoulders, your back, like that's what, you go to Bud's as an athletic trainer, you learn. And as a doctor, you learn so much about how to deal with these things because you see ten times more than you would, or more than you would anywhere else.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I believe it.

• 22:23Jocko Willink?

  But I've also talked to people who say, like I was young too going through Bud's.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  How old were you?

• 22:29Jocko Willink?

  Eighteen.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 22:30Jocko Willink?

  And so you get the, um, you get the, you get the mind of, hey, I just do whatever they tell me to do, you know? But there's some people that say, have told me they didn't think they were mature enough at eighteen or nineteen to go through Bud's.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Um, I for sure was not, I don't wanna say I wasn't mature enough to go through because obviously I did and I made it through. However, you say like what, or ask like what my biggest struggle at Bud's was, was definitely my maturity. I mean physically, like physically it was running, like just, uh, I was never a long distance runner, obviously. Um. Sprinting, I was fast as fuck sprinting and I was really strong on the log and like the boats. The boats on heads was extremely surprising to me. I like, I remember seeing it on the videos and thinking like, okay, that's kind of weird. Like, why are they running around boats on their heads? And then uh,

• 23:29Speaker 01

  I didn't think it was gonna be painful because they're they're like inflatable, the rubber boats or whatever. And then when they put the thing on your head, I was just like, Jesus Christ, this thing is smashing my fucking neck.

• 23:42Jocko Willink?

  Did the instructors jump around in the boats when you went through? Cause they stopped doing it at some point.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  They would uh, like some of the little guys would like jump and hang on the handles and and shit like that when when you're running. But yeah, you definitely knew when they were on the boats, because they got a lot heavier.

• 23:58Jocko Willink?

  They would um, what they would do when I went through and they stopped doing this, which is is a good thing. They would, they would be like the boats would be lined up and we'd have them in head carry. And the instructors would be in like boat one.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  And run.

• 24:11Jocko Willink?

  And then they would just jump into boat two and then jump into boat three. And I remember hearing when they would did that to me, a couple of the times that they did it to me, I heard like this deep kind of

• 24:26Jocko Willink?

  inside my neck. And I remember thinking, this is probably not good. And they they stopped doing it thankfully, because that's not healthy.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  So you actually used to be like six two?

• 24:36Jocko Willink?

  I I don't I don't know if I got shorter, but I definitely took some took some damage, took some damage for sure.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was that the boats on heads was probably the most surprising thing to me of how like I just wasn't expecting it to be that bad. And uh, but like the log PT, you know, I was always, I actually really enjoyed the log PT. I think probably because from roofing, you know, I was always carrying those eighty pound bundles of shingles up the ladder. And then like, I was the young guy on the crew. So I was the shingle bitch for fucking three years. And you know, everyone, everyone on my crew is in their forties. So they, you know, I was the fifteen year old when I came on the crew and just a young, strong kid. They they took full advantage of it and just wherever they needed shingles on the roof, that's where I hauled them up. And uh,

• 25:27Speaker 01

  so I was used to carrying, you know, that the heavy load and and stuff. And like I said, I felt strong. I felt really good on that stuff. And mentally, I was like,

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Um, I just was super competitive and that's what really got me through BUDS was was just that sheer competitiveness.

• 25:49Jocko Willink?

  Where did the maturity level, where could that have tripped you up? Were you like doing dumb stuff on the weekends?

• 25:55Speaker 01

  No, not really. Um, cause I mean, I wasn't even old enough to go drink or anything like that. So, uh, it was more just kind of not understanding. Well, one, like I was different. I was different than most people there because like you said, you wanted to be in the military your whole life and like you wanted to be a SEAL, I'm assuming. Did you?

• 26:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I mean, as soon as I kind of figured out what the SEAL teams were. Yeah.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. So like, like that and like just how you are, you're very disciplined. You're very, you know, you're very militant, I would say.

• 26:31Jocko Willink?

  And I would, I would concur.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was like more of like a wild, like free spirit kind of, you know, kid growing up and, uh, and I, I was not militant at all. And so, and, and I also like getting through bootcamp was difficult for me because of that as well. You know, just like, I'm like, why, why? My, my question was like, why do we have to make our, we're, we're literally spent all day on doing our bed and, and remaking it. I was like, I, what the fuck is the point of this? Like it's such a waste of time. And you know, obviously it's, it's all for a reason and design, but I just, I couldn't wrap my head around it.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  So that just lack of military bearing and, um, lack of maturity and understanding like why things are the way they are. And you know, the whole military structure of just, you just do it and you don't question and stuff like that, you know? That was probably my biggest hang up, you know, just, I was different than everyone. I was young, I was, I don't know. I didn't want to be a SEAL my whole life, you know, some of these people like this is like their dream and they've been training for it for whatever and I'm just kinda here showing up and and guys are quitting and and I'm not and you know and like physically I was doing like a lot

• 28:03Speaker 01

  better than some guys who like I said it was kinda just like well I'm just here whatever doing this and other guys it's like this is everything to me and you know so it's like I

• 28:17Jocko Willink?

  Check. So you get done with BUDS and you show up and where'd you go Team 10?

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Team 10, yeah.

• 28:24Jocko Willink?

  Right on. And then what, how was that checking into Team 10?

• 28:28Speaker 01

  It was it was cool but by that point, you know, I'd kind of like uh obviously I was like alright, I'm a SEAL now and and I'd been in the in the pipeline for a while and kind of getting in the flow of things and the military and and stuff like that but uh yeah, I was super excited to check into Team 10 um and I originally I was gonna go to Team 5 and then my I told my family, you know, that I got orders to 5 and and they were all kinda bummed out because they wanted they're all on the east coast and they were like, oh man, you know, we were hoping you'd come on the east coast and I was like, ah, okay, I'll go to the east coast and I

• 29:12Speaker 01

  thought it was like kinda cool too because it it felt like a like a new like a new chapter because like you know, the SEAL team won 3 and 5 or and 7 are right by the BUDS compound so it was like, you know, I'd been there and been in this scene for the last 2 years or whatever it was and it was it was cool felt cool to like go across the country and like check into a team and you know, I just felt like like this is it, this is the real deal. So that was super cool, I felt felt good. Um, my troop was awesome and uh

• 29:50Jocko Willink?

  And what was your what was your job in your first platoon?

• 29:52Speaker 01

  I was a heavy gunner for sure.

• 29:57Jocko Willink?

  A dub.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  A knuckle dragger.

• 29:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. That's a classic new guy, strong new guy. Guess what? Give him a pig.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  You're a big, strong new guy, got something for you. And I loved it. I I I embraced it. I didn't think it was like a bad thing, you know?

• 30:14Jocko Willink?

  And what year is this now?

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Two thousand nine.

• 30:18Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so you, yeah, you you went straight to the to the Mark forty eight, no M sixty for you.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 30:23Jocko Willink?

  That's that's that's nice.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, we shot sixties and stuff, but no like.

• 30:28Jocko Willink?

  What, like a fam shoot with sixties or something?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and there were sixties on like Humvees and stuff like that and going through vehicle stuff.

• 30:37Jocko Willink?

  So there was still a little bit of transition taking place.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 30:40Jocko Willink?

  So you're a pig gunner, your first platoon, how was your first workup?

• 30:45Speaker 01

  It was awesome. Uh, it was definitely a good time. Uh.

• 30:49Jocko Willink?

  What surprised you about like going through workup, being in a SEAL platoon? What were what was different than what you thought it was? What was different from how it was for Charlie Sheen?

• 31:04Speaker 01

  You know?

• 31:07Speaker 01

  It was it was a lot like the movie. I'm just kidding. It was it was it was great, man. I I I thought it was a lot of fun. Um, we got to travel, travel the travel the country. That was the cool thing, too, about the East Coast. Um, the training sites were kind of all over, all over versus the West Coast. It was kind of like the same song and dance, like Nyland and and, uh, what's the other one?

• 31:34Speaker 01

  And you know, in the training, the training's like all the same sites. And, uh, so going to the East Coast, I got to see a bunch of new places and and that was cool to me, just kind of seeing the world. Um, and the the brotherhood of like being in the troops and and stuff. And you're you're rolling around as a team. I thought that that was really cool.

• 32:01Jocko Willink?

  Was there anything that was more challenging? Like, you know, some new guys, they have a hard time in their first platoon with whatever, with land warfare. They have a hard time with CQC. They'll have a hard time with some, you know, whatever. Sometimes it's like not easy. Sometimes, you know, you get a guy that can't dive very well or whatever. Was there anything that was any skill set that was hard for you or did you pretty much? Which is, I would say, most guys coming out of BUDs and SQT. Like, most of them are fine. Like, most of them get, get, they, they can, they pick things up pretty quick. You know, they made it through all that crap. They made it through SQT where you're getting screened, right, again. So, most of the time, but still, you'd still get guys showing up a platoon that, you know, they wouldn't be comfortable with this, or they wouldn't be great at that. Was there anything that was tough for you?

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Uh, I would say, like, everything was, was tough. I, I wasn't, I wasn't a master at anything other than my pig, you know, and, uh, so everything was, was, was somewhat challenging for me, but I also didn't really struggle with anything too, too much, other than like my maturity, like that, you know, I was, I had checked into a SEAL team before I could even go into a bar, you know, and I didn't go to college or anything like that, so I was, I was a twenty-year-old at a SEAL team, you know, um, so

• 33:28Speaker 01

  yes, I, I had been through a lot, uh, as far as like BUDs and SQT and, you know, that kind of forces you to grow up um, to an extent, but SEALs like to party too, and, uh, and I kinda that was probably my biggest challenge was just my maturity and just kinda learning when to

• 33:52Speaker 01

  to lock on and, and, you know, when it was time to like chill out.

• 33:57Jocko Willink?

  Did you ever get caught? Did you ever get in trouble? Did you ever get arrested?

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Uh, I did get arrested and not in my new guy platoon. I got arrested in my, uh, and when I was in my second platoon. Uh, I got into a bar fight, um, this, these guys, it was actually three, three dudes, uh, had just started mouthing off to one of my platoon members' wife. It was him and I and, uh, my girlfriend at the time and, and his girlfriend at the time, now, or wife, and, uh, we were coming out of the bar and they just, we had had a couple of drinks and they had come over and said some disrespectful shit to them and you know, and I, I just was feeling froggy a little bit and, and, uh, didn't let it slide

• 34:44Speaker 01

  and ended up whooping their ass and. Beat up three people outside of a bar and got arrested, but.

• 34:51Jocko Willink?

  But your first platoon, you you managed to keep your nose clean.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:55Jocko Willink?

  At least as far as the the actual law go, the actual law enforcement goes.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, no trouble.

• 35:01Jocko Willink?

  And then where was that? So you did your workup. Where did you guys go on deployment to? Your first deployment?

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Afghanistan.

• 35:08Jocko Willink?

  And when you were going to Afghanistan, were you going, did you go as a whole troop to Afghanistan?

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Uh, yep, yeah, all all three of our platoons went. Yeah, it was it was kind of an interesting um thing because uh it was in two thousand eleven and um I don't know if you you said you got out in two thousand ten.

• 35:32Jocko Willink?

  I did, yeah.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, there was. I'm sure you heard about they uh they wanted us to somehow get on the army's schedule and uh so it was us and Team Seven. And um we ended up basically doing two deployments back to back and got synced up with the army or something like that. I don't I don't know all the all the

• 36:01Speaker 01

  you know, mumbo jumbo that actually took place, but or why why we did it, but uh they told us kind of right before it was like two months before we left. They were like, hey, um just kidding, you guys are gonna go to Afghanistan and we're gonna need you to stay there for basically a year. And we're like, oh shit, okay. So uh

• 36:21Speaker 01

  we went there and uh it was

• 36:26Speaker 01

  it was an interesting deployment for sure because my platoon um

• 36:34Speaker 01

  we were the furthest outpost from any major base in Afghanistan and uh you know, we're.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Basically roughing it the whole time we were out there.

• 36:45Jocko Willink?

  Did you guys take over an outpost somewhere or did you guys establish one?

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Uh, we took one over that had just been established like literally a couple of months ago. You know, so there was, there was nothing there. We were sleeping in tents still, um, no running water, no, no, nothing like that. And then, um, I think around month seven or eight of our deployment, we packed up and went fifteen miles north and set up a new, uh, site. So it was literally just fucking roughing it the whole time. Uh, you know, airdropping our food in and, and no running water the whole time.

• 37:29Jocko Willink?

  And what, what type of ops were you doing?

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Um, we were, we were doing all kinds of stuff, um, and I was lucky enough to kind of, we got to, they shifted our guys around too. So like we got to all like kind of experience different things because we all had a different kind of mission set. And different, we were all in, all three of our platoons were in different areas of Afghanistan. So, um, I got to kind of do a lot of everything.

• 37:58Jocko Willink?

  So were you guys going out on patrol from your, from your forward operating base? Was that?

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, pretty much daily.

• 38:06Jocko Willink?

  And you were, uh, interacting with the local populace type thing?

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 38:10Jocko Willink?

  Trying to establish relationships?

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did that for a little while. That was, uh, really dumb.

• 38:19Jocko Willink?

  That you'd be dumb because you didn't feel like you made any progress, didn't make any connections?

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, in, in my opinion, I, I just thought it was like kind of a, a waste of time and, um, I just, I just felt like we could have been doing a lot more, uh, stuff or, or better stuff with our time and, and training and all that. And it was just like a super dangerous, uh, area to be in, you know? It was in, uh, Helmand and is, we basically just lived in a fucking minefield, you know? And it was just IEDs everywhere, just as a constant threat. So, you know, and we were going on these long patrols every day and, and, uh, and all these, all these ops we were doing and hitting these villages that were.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Just riddled with IEDs everywhere and, you know, getting contacted, you know, on you're basically just stick out like a sore thumb there, you know, so.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  I mean, you know how it is overseas. I didn't feel real comfortable with that, like, and it sucked. Being in a minefield, like, just every step, just, please don't blow up, please don't blow up, please don't blow up, please don't blow up. You know, for a year.

• 39:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Did you guys, did you guys hit any IEDs?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah. Yeah, we encountered a couple IEDs and, um.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  So, that was shitty.

• 39:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And the enemy, did you have a feel for? Who was bad and who was good when you'd go out?

• 40:03Speaker 01

  No, definitely not. Um, there was, I mean, cause like literally there was, there was, uh, times where, you know, we'd be in the village fucking shaking hands with people and then, you know, on the way out, get contacted, get in a firefight and then fucking go back and look and, oh, it's the same guys that we were just shaking hands with that are fucking dead, you know? Um, so it was,

• 40:32Speaker 01

  it was hard to,

• 40:36Speaker 01

  it was really weird to like get ramped up and everything as these like, you get in this mindset, this warrior mindset, you know, that you're going to war and you're going to this fucking land where everyone, everyone is, you know, your enemy and blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, oh, just kidding, let's, let's try to help some of these people or whatever. And, and the, you know, the good in you is like, okay, yeah, I wanna, I wanna help people and, and stuff like that and, and do what I can, um, to help these people out. And then if they're getting like bullied essentially by the, by the Taliban or whatever, like, that's not cool, but,

• 41:19Speaker 01

  I just felt like it was.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  It was really weird to to be there and go there with that mindset and then have to fucking like try to help people and then when you try to help people, they don't want your help and you know, and they fucking shoot at you and and shit like that. So it's like and then you're expected to like go out and try and help these people again and it's I don't know. It was just like a weird, it's a weird dynamic.

• 41:49Jocko Willink?

  And would you go, when you said you would move positions, were you going from like, would you like switch platoons and go to a different operating base?

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:57Jocko Willink?

  And then you'd spend some time there with them?

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 42:00Jocko Willink?

  And and then do operations with them and then after a little while go to a different one as well?

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we we rotated our guy, all of our guys just to so we could all get, you know, experience doing other things like working with the commandos or, you know,

• 42:18Speaker 01

  training the fit, training FID, um, or doing the VSO stuff and yeah, it was cool. I I I enjoyed that just because it broke up the monotony of every day, you know, going on patrols, doing the same thing, seeing the same places or whatever and dealing with the same threats. Uh, it just, it keeps you kind of from getting complacent, I felt like.

• 42:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, especially for the eleven monther.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was definitely happy to move and and do new things and work and like and it was cool too because on the base that we were at in Afghanistan, it was literally like a hundred yards by a hundred yards. That was your, that was like our camp. It was like being in prison, you know, but worse like because we're getting shot at too and like if you, when you go outside to go get your fucking food that they airdrop in, you know, you're you're worried about stepping on IEDs like we found IEDs literally right outside of our compound, you know, so it was a constant threat always and

• 43:28Speaker 01

  And like I said, like going to get our airdrop, it was just a lot of work too, because not only, it was like we were seal bees, you know, we had to like build our, we had to like build our camp. And also like all the stuff that came with that, like going and getting our, our supplies that would airdrop in and, and being out there, you know, you only get ring routes and, and stuff, you only get airdrops every once in a while. And uh, so when, when shit would come in, it was like all hands, go work on this. And then also you gotta prep your shit and get ready for the, the op tonight or tomorrow or whatever.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  And um, and I remember just, I have a video of one of our big airdrops coming in. And you just see like three or four pallets just burn in and just explode. And you know, it's like always, it like all the water bottle pallets are fine. But it's that one with like the goodies, you know, it's like, oh man, you know, that's the one that burned in. And it just fucking hits the ground, explodes and you see like all the ripits or something, you know, something that people were looking forward to just explode and you're just like, fuck.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  I, I don't know, I just accepted that this is my life. So whatever, I wasn't, I wasn't thinking about the time too much. And then um, I just, you get into a rhythm, you know, and we got to, we got to go home for R and R. That was cool. Took a little break, but it was like bittersweet, you know, go home for fucking two weeks and like, I've just been playing in this minefield where everyone's trying to kill me for the last six months and come home for two weeks. And like to normalcy and you're just like, you know, literally just fly straight from there, no decompression or anything. And then now you're back in normal society with your family and.

• 45:24Jocko Willink?

  And by the way, you're leaving in 11 days to go back.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then don't get comfortable because we're going right back over there. So that was like, kinda like. It was bittersweet and uh got back over there, but that was cool too, because it was like, alright, I'm fucking halfway through, like it's downhill now, you know, so that it kinda definitely fired me up to to finish out, but then uh towards the end, we were there for all four seasons, so we saw literally all four seasons, this is interesting and um by the end of it, by the end of it, uh I remember when the ring route came to pick me up to go out,

• 46:08Speaker 01

  uh I remember flying away from from the base that we were at and just thinking like I I felt kinda sad, like like almost like when you move away from somewhere and like I've moved my whole life, I've moved around a lot, so I was like, damn, like this has been my home for the last year, you know, I'm kinda bummed to to to leave, but fuck this place, I can't wait to go home.

• 46:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I got I got kinda lucky because I'd been in the Navy for a while when when I deployed to Iraq and especially my second deployment to Iraq where I was in Ramadi and and like I I, you know, sometimes people will say, oh, I look back and I I wish I would have appreciated it more, you know, people say that about certain parts of their life, I don't have that at all, like I 100% appreciated every single day I was there, I was like, this is this is the the best part of my whole life is right, is what's happening today, right now, you know, so I got kinda lucky in the fact that, you know, even talking to the guys that were new guys on on uh that deployment to Ramadi, they they just kind of, they were like, from then on, they'd be saying, damn, you know,

• 47:17Jocko Willink?

  I thought that's what every deployment was gonna be like, it was, and it was, they just didn't have that same perspective of, hey, man, this is like this target rich environment where we're getting to do what everyone's dreamed of doing their whole life and you're gonna do it all the time, that doesn't happen, you know, it doesn't happen like that usually, you know, it's hard, and so I was pretty lucky in the fact that I I I was, I could appreciate it.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, as far as the work went, like I was, as far as like, like being a SEAL and working there, like that that was awesome, you know, and I was, uh, you know, one of the biggest, like, I say concerns I had or or not even a concern was just like a question to myself was, you know, what what how am I actually going to react in combat? You know what I mean? Cause everyone, everyone likes to think that they're ideally, you know, in a, in a situation of shit popped off, you know, I'll be the, I'll be the guy who will, you know, hold my, have my shit together and, and be that, you know, the rock or whatever, you know what I mean? And some people crumble, you know?

• 48:28Speaker 01

  And I saw that as a SEAL like that, that was kind of my, I was always a realist, you know? It was like, I've never been shot at. I've never been in a gunfight or whatever. So, um, I definitely, you know, I, I, I feel like I'm not a coward and I feel like I would step up and do, do what I gotta do and perform. I feel like that, but I don't know it for sure. You know what I mean? And, um, so that was, that was definitely when it happened and I, and I, you know, and I did, I, I stepped up and, and felt very pleased with, with how that all went down and, and all the combat and everything that I had been involved with.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Like that was definitely, um, rewarding to me, you know? Like as a SEAL and, and as a man, just, and as a warrior, just like, okay. Like I felt legit, you know? I felt like fulfilled in that sense. Um, so the work, the work was really good. But just as far as being in that environment, like, uh, the IEDs was really like, the IEDs and the fucking like invisible enemy was kind of, um, discouraging, you know? It was like, it felt like we just had so much risk, you know, for not a whole lot of reward.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  And, uh, like, which is different, like I would say, or I feel like in, like Ramadi was like a different, just way different environment. Um, but yeah.

• 50:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, that's, that's the, that's the way insurgents are supposed to fight, right? You're not supposed to see them. They're just supposed to pick away at you the death of a thousand cuts. With the, you know, indirect fire, IEDs and snipers and they don't want you to ever see them and, and that's what they want. And just to slowly pick away because they don't care about human life. They don't value human life. And here we are, you know, every time we lose someone, it's a, it's a tragedy. And they don't care if they lose guys or not. They don't, they don't care. They don't care if civilians get killed. Don't care about any of that. And so that's why they have, that's why they have an advantage in those situations. A psychological advantage is, hey, we, we don't care if you kill us. And by the way, we know you care about your people.

• 50:52Jocko Willink?

  And so we're gonna pick away and you're, hopefully you're never gonna see us and we don't care. We're gonna blow you up and we don't care.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, I mean, that was pretty apparent. I mean, uh, cause a lot of the IEDs that went off were, you know, local villagers stepping on them.

• 51:09Jocko Willink?

  Triggered by civilians.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  And, uh, then that, that just happened all the, all of the damn time. And, uh, and we would, we would help them, you know, we would, we would aid the wounded and stuff like that. And they'd like get pissed at us and we're like, we didn't plant that shit, you know? Like, get mad at them, not us.

• 51:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's, that insurgency thing is.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  But yeah, and like, you know,

• 51:33Jocko Willink?

  Deal with.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  It was, it was just super frustrating to me, like, uh,

• 51:40Speaker 01

  it was super frustrating to me,

• 51:44Speaker 01

  dealing with like the politics involved with war. And, um, you know, I felt like we absolutely could have done things to give us more of an advantage, but it seemed like they were more concerned with politics and shit like that, you know? As more than, more than like the safety of us. And I just felt like we could. You know, there's no reason why we should be going out in the daylight, period. You know, we, we train, like, why not? Fight like we train and.

• 52:21Jocko Willink?

  Oh, because you guys got locked down from doing stuff at night, right?

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Uh, we, we got to do night shit, but we also did a lot of day shit. And I, you know, to me, it was just like, why the fuck are we doing this? Like, we have night vision. Why are we going out during?

• 52:36Jocko Willink?

  Did you have Afghan forces with you?

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Sometimes.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  A lot of times we did.

• 52:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. We, we had to work a lot in Ramadi in the daytime. Um, and the ma- the main reason why we worked, well, there's a couple of big reasons why we worked in the daytime in Ramadi. Which, as you, as you just pointed out, is a huge tactical disadvantage compared to being out at night where we can literally see and the enemy can't. I mean, it's, but in Ramadi, you know, we had to work with Iraqi soldiers who didn't have night vision. So they didn't even have flashlights. They would have like one flashlight for every four people and we'd eventually got them flashlights and stuff. But anyways, it was, it was. A problem because to go out at night with them, it was, they were blind. And so now you're, you're like at a, you're at the sa- the same disadvantage. Because you're trying to, you got people that can't see, mixed with people that can see.

• 53:28Jocko Willink?

  And they're not getting anything out of it. They're not improving their skills at all.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Oh, and they're just horrible.

• 53:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and they were, they were not, not good, not good. And so that was one reason was to take them out in the daytime, we, to, to get them to operate, we had to go out with them in the daytime. And the other big one was the enemy knew that we owned the night. And so the enemy in Ramadi, they didn't come out at night. They came out in the daytime. So if you wanted to kill them, you had to go out when they were, when they were moving. And so that's when we went out and, you know, we, we did both and we did a ton, ton at the night as well. And also, you know, we'd take advantage of the night to get in good positions. We know when, and then during the daytime, they would come out to fight and, you know, they'd get it.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had, we had, uh, our, we had, we were working with the commandos and they had night vision. Um, but like I said, they were just terrible. And, uh, like one of, one of them almost shot me. On an op, uh, we were actually in a helicopter flying to target and, uh, it was one of their heavy gunners and, um. He uh, it was around midnight and we were flying in a Chinook to, to the target and uh, I was just kinda nodding off, just, you know, just, just trying to ca- you know, catch a little nap on the ride to the op and it's pitch black in the, in the helo, obviously and uh,

• 54:54Speaker 01

  all of a sudden it's just, you know, like four or five rounds crack off and the guy next, it was the guy next to me and thank God he had his barrel down and uh, like literally just shot like four or five rounds, like less than six inches from my feet and there's just holes in the bottom of the, the bird and he shot the comms out of the helo and everything. And at that point I was just like, fuck, you know, I was, I was just kinda used to shit, being shitty and just reached over and took the rounds out of his gun and just, that was it. For his safest weapon. Yeah, and just like come over comms like, yeah, fucking commandos, AD, you know,

• 55:38Speaker 01

  and everyone's just like, whatever, but uh, so then we changed, like, alright, no more commandos rolling hot in the birds, you know, on the way to target, uh, target and uh, so we, we, we had changed that, so then the next one we did, we fucking got to, we uh, got to our, our uh, target, bird landed, get out and do our formation and all of a sudden, and it's like a total brown out, you know, cause Afghanistan's super dusty and everything there and uh, the, the helo lands, we're all getting out in our formation and it's total brown out and then all of a sudden, we hear fucking rounds going off,

• 56:23Speaker 01

  cause the, the dudes loading their pigs, like all of a sudden had to run away gun or whatever, we're, we're, we don't know if we're getting contacted, like you can hear it's outgoing, but like why, why is there outgoing fire when we're infilling? You know, are we getting in contact or what's going on? And it's just these guys are fucking stupid with their weapons and, yeah, so it was always, always something fun. Always good.

• 56:49Jocko Willink?

  So you wrap up that deployment and come back to come back and roll into your next

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:57Jocko Willink?

  Next platoon.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Yep, come back and uh roll into the next platoon and um I always wanted to

• 57:03Jocko Willink?

  How was that, how was that coming home? Now you're, now you're home. You did the two weeks in the middle. How was the transition when you got home?

• 57:11Speaker 01

  It was uh, it was, it was rough. Um, I was definitely dealing with some PTSD, I would say and uh, I, I was, I was definitely kinda angry. Um,

• 57:27Speaker 01

  I was, I was angry.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  It was weird, weird, weird emotions. Um, cause I, I kind of was kinda pissed off at like uh, America, like, like not America as a whole, but like I felt like uh, the, the politics, you know, like I said earlier, I felt like they really um cared more about, or they just didn't really give a shit about our safety. I felt like uh, you know, it's one thing, like obviously we're doing a dangerous job, but why, why on earth are we not giving ourselves every advantage that we are capable of, you know, like, like the night vision and stuff like that and,

• 58:15Speaker 01

  and a lot of times we would capture people um who we knew were bad, you know, talking to our intel guys and they're like 100% like this dude is a fucking terrorist, like he's a bad dude, like everyone in his phone, you know, they rip apart their shit and like every, every one of his contacts are bad, you know, like this guy's definitely a, an IED maker, you know, whatever. And so we've got these guys captured, but then we have to turn them into the Afghan government, which we also know is corrupt.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  And then all of a sudden, these dudes are out on the streets again in a couple of months' time and making IEDs that, you know, me or my brothers could step on and fucking, that's a wrap. And

• 59:12Speaker 01

  You know, Caleb Nelson was a SEAL that died on our deployment from our team. And it's just kinda, you know, life and death and war, it just puts things in a perspective. And it really made me angry that, you know, like Caleb couldn't come home because of an IED and like, we're letting these people go. And I just felt like we weren't being utilized fully and like, like it was costing us. And so I was like really angry about that.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  And then also just kind of being in that environment for a long time, just it's different, you know, different mentality and then coming home to America and like people just don't understand how good it is here and it's like a fucking fairy tale, you know? And, and trying and listening to people talk and complain about, about shit here. And I'm just like, you don't even have to, you don't even, you just walked down that sidewalk and didn't even give a fuck where you stepped. Like you didn't even care because you're not worried about anything. You're not worried if there's an IED there.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Like you have running water, you took a shower today. You fucking, I had to burn my own shit, you know?

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  So I was just like, a lot of anger dealing with that. And I was drinking a lot, like, and I also felt like, I felt like SEALs were the only ones that kind of understood and got it. And then also being over there in Afghanistan, I saw...

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  You know, Kandahar, the main base in Kandahar was like a fucking, it was like a little town, you know? And there's like, flag football leagues and shopping and TGI Fridays, people having birthday parties and shit like that. And, you know, that's where, that's where like Tim McGraw flies in to do the concert for the troops and shit like that, you know? And it's like, oh, is this where we're staying? Eating like kings, you know? And they're like, no, no, no, you're going out there. So then, you know, that's where I, that's where I was and that's where, where me and my boys were, you know? Living in the suck, living, doing some serious fucking shitty living, you know?

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  And, and, and working a job that was dangerous as fuck every day. And then just seeing that kind of shit, like, I don't know. I just, I felt like before I had gone overseas, I was like real, like, thank you for your service to everyone I saw, you know? And, and afterwards I was just kind of the opposite. And, uh, I was like, fuck all these motherfuckers, man. So I was just disgruntled and whatever. And, um, and people, you know, I'd hear people talk about PTSD or this or that. And I'm like, what the fuck are you, what are you afraid of?

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  You know, you were on a, a main base that like, wasn't, it's not even a thing. Like, you didn't experience war.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  But that was like, just kind of immaturity at the time. And, and like, like I said, me being just kind of disgruntled and, um, dealing with that. And I was drinking like heavily, uh, and...

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  I was just a super aggressive person and it wasn't like a good, it wasn't good for my friends and family, like people I cared about or whatever. And like I said, I, I felt like SEALs were kind of the only ones that understood. And then even amongst SEALs, I felt like only the ones who, who had to live so shitty like we did, like our platoon, you know, no running water for a year and like, like just living in that environment was super rough. And I felt like they were the only ones who understood. But then again, it's like I just spent a year with these assholes in a hundred by a hundred foot, you know, place. I don't want to see them.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  And so I just kind of felt alone a little bit, you know, and whatever, dealt with that. Got, got through that and doing better now. And I was like, kind of disgruntled towards people claiming PTSD and all this kind of shit for years after that. And then actually, some random,

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  this random chick at a dinner I was at, she was in the army or something like that and, she had, she was talking about PTSD and I was just thinking like, Jesus Christ, what the fuck are you? What, what is it, you know? And I kind of said my viewpoints on it and she was like, well, you know, fear is relative. And, you know, like, you were, you were seriously trained and stuff for, for war and, and to be in that environment and, you know, some people weren't. And like, fear is relative, like this, like being in a gunfight to you, you know, and versus like just being in that country,

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  like could be the same amount of fear or more for that person. And I was just kind of like, you know, hmm, I never really thought about it that way. Okay, I'll change my mind.

• 1:05:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, war is different for everybody and it's, I remember my first deployment to Iraq, we, we, we traveled a lot and we went to a lot of different places and so we'd go from like the incredible palaces that had been taken over that had subways and Starbucks and then we, you know, the next day we'd be out at some outstation somewhere, there'd be an ODA team just living in, you know, the most horrible living conditions and then the next day you'd be with some random Marine Corps company out in some other forward operating base and again, they're just living like in hell and then you come back to another, another like main FOB and it's all luxurious and nice and I mean, it just, it kinda is what it is, you know, it just kinda is what it is and that actually makes sense what that female said about, you know,

• 1:05:56Jocko Willink?

  hey, it's, different people are there, they're, they're there for different reasons, you know, like, we joined the SEAL teams because what we want to do is go out and go on patrol with a machine gun. That's like 100%

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:11Jocko Willink?

  of why you join the SEAL teams. Someone that goes-

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  You're, you're hoping for a gunfight, like-

• 1:06:16Jocko Willink?

  You're praying for war.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:17Jocko Willink?

  And so-

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  I remember like being out there, man, I, I remember my very first op, um, when I, we, we flew into this, to, to this village and I remember being like super nervous and like, holy shit, I'm, I'm a fucking Navy SEAL and I'm actually going on my first mission, like, holy shit. And I'm just thinking like, uh, when we land, we, we landed at like 3am or something and that, and we, we offset like way far away. But I was thinking like, it's gonna be guns blazing as soon as this Hilo lands. So I jump out of the Hilo and I'm just like full blown, ready for war, like whatever, bring it on, let's go, where's bin Laden?

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  And it was just pitch black, quiet, and I sat there for fucking hours and you know till the sun came up, nothing happened. I was like, god damn it. I was so disappointed, you know, like I was looking forward to like war and then, you know, obviously we got, we got plenty. But uh, I, yeah, I remember just being real antsy to, to get in a firefight and you know, to, to do what I've been trained to do and put my training to the test, you know, and yeah, it's different for other people who are not, experiences may vary.

• 1:07:36Jocko Willink?

  There's no doubt about that. So dude, when you went to, uh, back, when you got home and you got put into a new platoon, did you guys keep a core group of guys from your, from your previous platoon together? Or was it like a brand new?

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, no, we, we had guys that, that stayed and, and some went, you know, to trade it and some screened and

• 1:07:54Jocko Willink?

  Standard turnover deal.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  Standard shit.

• 1:07:56Jocko Willink?

  Few, a few core guys stayed together, four or five or whatever.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:00Jocko Willink?

  And then you guys got a new chief and a new OIC, new assistant platoon commander.

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, that was, man, God, thank God. I, I am so, I so do not miss having fucking 20 bosses, you know, in the military and then every, you know, at the drop of a hat, it can change. And then all of a sudden it's like, nope, new flavor. We're, we're uh, now we're, you know, it's like, oh, Jaco's now our fucking commander. So we're all waking up at 4:30 and going to PT. It's like, what the fu- when did this happen? This is bullshit.

• 1:08:34Jocko Willink?

  Uh, check. And so you get, you do another workup.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Yep. And uh, I, I, I'd always wanted to be a, a dog handler.

• 1:08:43Jocko Willink?

  Oh, sweet.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, I tried to volunteer to be a dog handler as a new guy and, and they said, no, cause you know, they want you to, yeah, they want you to, to, here's your dog. His name's 48. And uh, make it bark. So, yeah, no, I got to, um, to do the dog handling thing and um, was super, super excited about that. And uh, it was, it was honestly such a great time. Um, I had a badass dog and I was his first handler and uh, yeah, it was, it was super cool because You know, well, one, I was, I was a one platoon wonder. So I'd already kind of gotten Afghanistan,

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  gotten some combat under my belt and, um, you know, I was the classic worst, the, the worst guy in the teams as a one platoon wonder. And so I was full blown. Just one cruise wonder, you knew everything. A hundred percent. And, uh, and I got a fucking dog. So watch out. Stellan, uh, my dog was super cool and, um, they like, uh, there, the, there were six of us that went over to work with the dogs and we all got along really well and, uh, and that was super cool because now you're not a new guy finally, you know?

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  And I mean, even on our deployment in Afghanistan, we were still fucking doing new guy shit. Oh, yeah. You're, you're a new guy. You're fucking new guy. I couldn't fucking believe it. I'm like, we literally, they made us shovel rocks one time. They like a whole, like a dumpster or a dump truck full of rocks and they just, we just moved it from one pile and just ten over like 10, 15 feet to the right and we just moved the pile of rocks to this make a new pile, 15 feet to the right. And it was, it was a disciplinary thing. It wasn't, you know, all the new guys, your, your attitude's not good. And we're just like, are you fucking serious?

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  Like, we were just in a firefight with you. Like, you know, we're not like, we're expecting to like be boys now. And they're like, shut up, new guys. Your attitude sucks. Go shovel rocks. And we're just like, god damn it. And then, you know, we were like literally having to burn shit. You know, burn our own shit. Uh, we had, we had, uh, barrels that we had wrapped deck, deck cordon around and cut in half and, um, filled with diesel fuel. And those were our, those were our shitters, but they needed burned. So when, uh, when the, when the new guys, you know, when, when we didn't, uh, have the best attitudes or our attitudes weren't up to par,

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  we, we shoveled rocks and burned shit. So I was definitely happy to not be a new guy anymore. Yeah. Um, but anyway, yeah. So I was a one platoon wonder, had a dog and, uh, Got to go through another workup with the dog, so that was super cool and and got to go through dog training school and and learn about the dogs and and um yeah unfortunately like right right before it was uh we were on like pre-deployment leave and they had told us like hey change of plans we're going now we're going to UCOM so uh we don't need the dog anymore Ugh

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  And I was like fuck man this isn't like a piece of equipment I mean that's essentially how the Navy looks at them they are they are equipment but you know obviously it's a dog and you be you you form this like super strong bond and attachment with them just like they're your pet Uh huh And uh my dog was super awesome and I'd worked with him so much that you know it's like a robot it was like a it it was so cool and um I was fucking so pissed off when they just dropped that on us and it's just like yeah they hand the leash over to someone else and yeah so did that and uh then went to UCOM and and you know a lot of guys were fucking

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  super pissed off that we were going to UCOM and you know I I was definitely looking forward to using my dog and and you know doing that in Afghanistan but you know that is what it is you you you know I I definitely knew that there wasn't I I didn't see any value in just bitching about it and uh it seemed like that was like the common thing was just it was it seemed almost like if you weren't bitching about it then you were looked at as a turd and like if you you know if you weren't bitching louder than the guy next to you then you're You're, you know, ah, man, I'm so disappointed we're not going to Afghanistan. Yeah, me too. I'm super disappointed. Like, yeah, well, I can't even sleep at night.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Well, well, I don't even want to fucking go, you know, like, you know, it's just.

• 1:13:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I just realized just to shed some light on to everyone. So when you deploy in a SEAL platoon or a SEAL troop, you can deploy to different parts of the world. Sometimes you deploy to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, which as we just kind of discussed, that's where everybody wants to go. Well, 95%. Well, you never know what the real number is. There's some people don't want to go, but there's, there's the attitude. Most guys want to go and they want to go fight. But there's also, you have to deploy to other parts of the world where there's no war going on. You might just deploy to the Pacific or you might deploy. In this case, UCOM is for European Command. So that's going over to Germany and doing, doing things out of Germany and different parts of Europe. And it's definitely not a

• 1:14:33Jocko Willink?

  high threat environment. And so, yeah, and, and that's the way it goes. Sometimes there's a mission that has to be done and it's a different kind of mission. You're going to build relationships with other countries and you do these exercises and do training events, but it's not generally what guys are excited to do in the SEAL teams. So there's always, there's always a, you know, I always get asked that question when I, when I go and talk to SEALs is, hey, my guys are going here. How do I keep them on? You know, how do I keep them, how do I keep them engaged when?

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:05Jocko Willink?

  That no one wants to do it or they don't care about it. And it's like, yeah, you gotta work through that.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  It's definitely, it's definitely a challenge because, you know, I would imagine especially if you know, like that you're going to UCOM and then starting that workup because you still have to go through the workup and train as if, you know, your fucking life depends on it and that you're going to war and, you know, that you're the elite, you know, warrior and, and you have to be ready for anything. So you, like, obviously our training is, um, developed around that.

• 1:15:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  But then having to keep up that motivation, like it's, it's one thing when you're like, fuck dude, this training sucks and it's, I'm tired, it's hot, I'm, you know, like fucking covered in shit or whatever. And I've got to hike 12 miles carrying this thing. And it's like, well.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  We gotta do it though because we're going to fucking war like this is serious, you know? But then it's like, oh, we're going to UConn, man. Why the fuck are we even training today? You know what I mean? But, uh, I don't know. So I didn't really have that that attitude though. I was kind of excited to, you know, I had just gotten, we'd just done that that year deployment to Afghanistan and it was, you know, my platoon was the one that was really, really shitty shitty living. The other two platoons were in nice spaces that they were like, had awesome gyms, like good food and and stuff like that and, you know, so I I wasn't, I wasn't too terribly upset about it. Obviously, like,

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  everyone wants to go work and and kill bad guys like a champion, but, uh, you know, when you, when you gotta do that and it is what it is, you might as well fucking enjoy it. That's why I feel. Might as well make the most of it.

• 1:16:55Jocko Willink?

  At what point did you start jujitsu?

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  I started, I started jujitsu actually, um, in BUDS. That was my introduction, um, to BUDS. One of our BUDS instructors was, he, he was interested in jujitsu and liked it or whatever. And, uh, so as a punishment, one day we had to do wet and sandy jujitsu, like introduction to jujitsu. And like a lot of guys were, were not enjoying it because one, if you've never done jujitsu, you're a hundred percent gonna get fucked up by anyone who has done it. And we were wet and sandy, so it was like just cold and wet and miserable and sandpaper, like grinding on each other, you know?

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  But I actually really enjoyed it. I was like, holy shit, this is pretty cool. And, uh, one of the guys, there was two guys in our class that were both, uh, really high level wrestlers, like in high school and, um, And they were probably like on a blue belt level, you know, they were probably like a hundred and thirty-five, hundred and forty-five pounds. And at the time I was around a hundred and eighty-five, hundred and ninety pounds. I had done, never done jujitsu ever, or wrestled or anything like that. And I always punched, you know, I knew I punched hard, cause been in a lot of fights, like, street fights and shit, bar fights, but, um, or at that point, sorry, it wasn't bar fights, it was like, high school fights. Um.

• 1:18:26Jocko Willink?

  Dodgeball fights.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Right. I did get in a dodgeball fight once. No bullshit. And, uh, so anyway, these, these little guys just tied me in a fucking knot. And I was just so impressed, like, because looking at these dudes, I would be like, one hundred percent, I'll fuck this guy up in a fight. And we, you know, they were like, alright, no striking, no, no punching, but we're gonna grapple. And I'm like, okay. And we're grappling and they're just completely fucking me up. And I was like, thinking, oh my god, if these little itty bitty men can tie me in a knot like this and just make me helpless, like, imagine what I could do if I learned this.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  So, I started, uh, rolling with one of my friends who, uh, was like six-two, two-hundred-and-forty pounds at the time and just super aggressive and, uh, he was probably around a blue belt level of knowledge, um, maybe not quite a blue belt, you know, but he knew definitely more than I did. And we, you know, he was really aggressive too, and, and, and he was like all about rolling, um, so we would roll nogi. And he would just constant-

• 1:19:42Jocko Willink?

  This was where? Uh, uh, in, this is in BUDs or?

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, in BUDs, and then, BUDs and then SQT, um, you know, BUDs was the introduction to it, and I was like, whoa, I, I fucking love this, this is cool. And then I started talking to one of my classmates who was also into it, and, you know, he had done, he had done some training before the Navy. And like I said, he was around a blue belt level.

• 1:20:03Jocko Willink?

  So when you got to Team Ten, did you start training immediately at one of the academies?

• 1:20:06Speaker 01

  No, I didn't start training, um, at one of the academies until after Afghanistan, I came back. And, uh, cause one of the guys, one of my, like, my C daddy, he was, uh, he was a purple belt at the time and- Um, we would roll on occasion, you know, and, and, and he would be like, and he would tell me like, man, you have like great, you know, aggression and, and ability and all this shit, but you, you gotta go to an academy and, and, and learn, you know, I'd only learned just from that guy, that dude beating my ass over and over. And he would literally like just, just fucking get on top, pressure, grind, arm triangle, you know, and he'd be like, all right, man.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  You know, I got on top, you know, I fucking, I'm trying to squeeze like that. Don't let me do that again. I'm like, all right, got it.

• 1:20:59Jocko Willink?

  Try harder.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Try harder, you know, you, you, you gotta do something, you're not doing anything, you know what I mean? So it was one of those, so, uh, I had gotten pretty good at just getting my ass kicked and dealing with a big, large human or whatever. So then when I actually showed up to an academy, um, I'd been doing that for a couple of years, you know, with him and never put on a gi or anything like that. But then afterwards, yeah, he was like, you gotta join gym. So I joined a gym, put on the gi and, and then really like, that's when my jujitsu, I, I'd say really started my journey. And that was in 2012.

• 1:21:39Jocko Willink?

  And did you have someone to train with on your UCOM deployment?

• 1:21:42Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I trained with my C daddy, he was there and, uh, I trained in UCOM, like we were obviously going to different countries. So I would go and, and hit up different gyms in the different countries and then all the other, uh, the other countries, SEAL teams, you know, that we worked with. There's always someone who's into combatives, you know, so I would basically just find out who that guy was.

• 1:22:08Jocko Willink?

  Wants to get some.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, who wants to get some. And then we'd roll the mats out and fucking train and, and I was trying to get guys into jujitsu back then and, and I was telling them, you know, it's a great workout. And people would just look at me like, that's not a fucking workout. And you know, you're not lifting weights, you're not running, you know, I'm like, dude, it is a workout. For sure. And it's, you know, one that, that I thought, the reason I liked jujitsu specifically was because it was like a deadly martial art. You know, I could fucking choke you and like you're, you're tapping, you're, you're asking me like, please don't kill me. You know, and that's what I thought was fucking cool about it. And uh.

• 1:22:52Jocko Willink?

  That is definitely one of the cool things about it.

• 1:22:54Speaker 01

  You know, like, there's, there's times where, I don't know, you, yeah, like, we're, we're gunfighters, I get it. But your first line is, should be you, like, my, my body. What can I do with my fucking vessel that I was brought into this universe with, like, versus you? If I don't have a weapon, if I don't, you know, it's just me and you.

• 1:23:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:19Speaker 01

  One on one, like, let's.

• 1:23:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I mean, I got to see, like, over and over again, just guys that didn't know how to, didn't know anything. And they'd get in a simple prisoner handling situation and wouldn't be able to handle someone. And the only thing that they would know to do is, like, bludgeon them in the head, which is cool, that's fine, I get it. But when you bring that person into the detainment facility and they're freaking all jacked up. And then it turns out that they're not the person you were looking for or whatever. And, and that just doesn't, that's just not, that's just not cool. And it's not, it's not tactically the best thing to do because you don't have the control. I mean, you can't count on punching someone or hitting them in the head, you can't count on that solving the problem.

• 1:24:05Jocko Willink?

  Whereas jiu-jitsu, it's like, yeah, no, I have this human under control. Whereas you can, you know, you've punched people before that you've nailed them. And they shook it off like it didn't even happen. Uh, you know, the whole thing with, like, muzzle strikes. I've seen, I've had guys, I mean, I've muzzle struck plenty of people, but like, I've had guys that I've seen put the craziest, most aggressive muzzle strike on a dude and have the dude shh, bleeding, yeah, but like, still fighting.

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, adrenaline's a fucking hell of a thing.

• 1:24:39Jocko Willink?

  And so, so, yeah, from the.

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Especially when people are in fear for their life.

• 1:24:43Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, definitely. And they hate you and they hate your society and they're a jihadist. It's like, yeah, they're that muzzle strike if it doesn't knock them out, which sure it is possible. But the idea that that was just gonna stop someone in their tracks 100% of the time was completely ludicrous. Now with jujitsu, at least you're gonna have some control, more control. And even that's not 100%, you know, cuz you could, you know, you've got someone that's really small. You've got someone that's really big and depending on your skill level, there could be issues there. But um, yeah, so you finally started training at a school.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:18Jocko Willink?

  2012 and then you just dove in all the way.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I started uh, I started training at a school in 2012 and um, started competing in jujitsu. Uh, you know, I really, once I, once I joined a school, I learned more in six months than I did in four years of

• 1:25:37Jocko Willink?

  Of course.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  nogi rolling with my buddies, you know what I mean? That is just the blind leading the blind essentially like who knows the most today? And it's like you guys are all fucking wrong. We're all teaching each other wrong shit, you know what I mean? So I learned more in six months than I did that whole time. And so I, and at that point, I'd really like fallen in love with jujitsu. And uh, I started competing all the time and was doing really well because I was a, I was competing as a white belt. You know, but I'd already had a shitload of grappling experience, you know, with fucking big, strong dudes who are just fucking me up.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  But now like, now I'm the big, strong guy and I know a little bit and I've, I've been in like hard situations on the mat. You know what I mean? And then obviously just the, the team guy just will to fight. You know, that's always a, a different level. Uh, you can tell when you roll with a, a team guy, even, even when a team guy is brand new at jujitsu, there's, there's still going to be there, you can just tell that they're different because their will to fight is, is generally higher.

• 1:26:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Um, so anyway, I started competing a, a lot and doing really well and then started fighting and doing really well and that as well. And then, you know, that led me to what I'm doing now.

• 1:26:58Jocko Willink?

  And then you actually took over, when you came home from your UCOM deployment, you took over the combatives program?

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I uh, I took over the combatives program. That was something that, you know, I felt like Uh, kind of lacked in, in the SEAL teams, you know, I was very shocked at that. I was surprised at that. You know, uh, obviously we're, we're, the SEALs are the best in the world, you know, at what we do. And, you know, we're gunfighters and, and all that shit, but I would, I imagined that our hand-to-hand combat, you know, like, everyone thinks like, "Oh, fucking SEAL, he must, you know, tap me on the shoulder and I'll, and I'll die," you know? And it's true, just for everyone who's listening. It's definitely true.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  But, uh, I hadn't gone to that school yet, so I was like confused as to why that wasn't a school or whatever. So, anyway, I, I felt like with, at this point, I was, I was, uh, competing quite a bit and having, having some pretty good success in the, uh, fight MMA, jujitsu world. And I'd also had, you know, real-world experience, you know, a lot of real-world experience dealing with prisoner handling and stuff like that. And, um, and I just felt like, I felt like I could bring, um,

• 1:28:29Speaker 01

  I felt like I could do a good job at, at leading the combatives. So, um, I took that on board and, and they gave me a shot. And, um, I rewrote the curriculum for combatives that we used on the, on the East Coast. And, um, it was, it was really good, you know, and I, and I went into it with the operationally focused mindset, you know? Not, if, if you're doing it, I'm all about jujitsu. I love jujitsu. However, if you're doing a triangle choke on target, something's probably gone terribly wrong. Way wrong. You know, but it's, it's definitely... Not a bad thing to know jujitsu, you know what I mean? Especially as an operator, you're dealing with human beings and you're not just, you know,

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  you're not just gonna go in and fucking kill everyone on target, you know? Could that happen? Yeah, absolutely, but is that gonna happen? Probably not, and you're gonna have to deal with human beings. And, you know, anything from just marshaling them to a full-on fight for your life is combatives related, you know? So I covered all of that in my, um, program and, and I really focused on, um, basic, simple things that you could remember during a time of stress, you know? Like, you're not gonna remember 12 steps to an arm bar or something like that

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  when you're in a situation and you need it, you know what I mean? Especially in a combative situation overseas, like that's, your adrenaline's gonna be going like crazy, it's gonna be fast, you need something simple, effective, and that, you know, that you can, uh, remember easily. And it's also, you know how it is, like in a, in a workup, you're, you're, you're getting fed through a fire hose essentially. There's so much shit you're, you're learning and you're expected to be proficient and like perfect at all of it before you go out the door. So our combatives, we didn't get a whole lot of time. You know, it was like a two-week thing and so I, I really focused on developing techniques

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  and things that, you know, uh, and would also be, uh, effective, effective, uh, towards your enemy or your, your person that you're dealing with, but also mitigate risk to the operator, you know? Like muzzle strikes are great because you can muzzle strike 100 people in a row and your hands feel fine, you know? You're not worried about breaking your hands. And your weapons in control the whole time, you know? So, you know, that was kind of my focus was operationally focused mindset. And, um, you know, and, and on the west coast, I felt like, yeah, from what I had seen going out there and, and working with those guys, it was a lot of, uh...

• 1:31:25Speaker 01

  I felt like more guys were interested in combatives, but it was more of like a sporty kinda thing, like they were up in the fight room doing jujitsu and stuff like that. And which I thought was great. Like I said, it's better, it's definitely better to, to, you know, have it and not need it than need it and not have it. And so I think that it was good that guys were doing that, but I didn't think that it was operationally focused enough, you know, like I don't think that you should be training combatives and PT gear, you know, like I had my, I like the program that I set up was all scenario driven and it was all like, train like you fight, you know, so. In your, in your camis, in your boots, with your gear, you know, cause handling someone

• 1:32:10Speaker 01

  in PT gear versus handling someone in, you know, a full kit is totally different as well.

• 1:32:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, there's, it's, you know, I was, the discussion that used to happen a lot with all this stuff, cause believe me, I was in this discussion for a long, long, long time.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  You, you reach, or you get a ton of fucking pushback.

• 1:32:36Jocko Willink?

  People are super, people are super emotional about, about combatives. And, you know, I would always, like, I wasn't, I wasn't as emotional as, I wasn't very emotional about it, but for me, it was just like, hey, guys need to know how to do this. This is, this isn't about emotion. This is about just the facts of being ready to be, be prepared, being prepared on the battlefield. That's what you need to be. And, you know, one of the things that people would say was, you know, the, like the speed shooting contests, you shouldn't do that because it'll take away from your operational capability. Okay, I get it. However, who does better on the range?

• 1:33:19Jocko Willink?

  The guy that's like a hobby shooter too, and then goes out to whatever CQC? He's drilling nails all day long. Same thing with parachuting, like, okay, so I skydive, whatever. I'm a, I'm a skydiver on the weekends and I like to go down and have a ton of jumps. I have, you know, 2,000 jumps with my slick rig. How do I do when I put a combat equipment on? I do awesome. I'm way better than like a guy like me, cause I wasn't like a recreational skydiver. Whenever I put equipment on, it was like, it was, it was a, I had to pay attention. Whereas the guys that were good skydivers in the civilian side, they were good. Same thing with like, oh, who's gonna do better? In a grappling match? A guy that wrestled in high school with his gear on? Or a guy that didn't, you know, has his gear on?

• 1:34:04Jocko Willink?

  It's like, it doesn't matter. You get certain skill level and you're gonna do great. And that's just the way it is. Now, what you can't do is just say, oh, well, we're never gonna train with gear on. Because there are certain, you know? It's like saying, hey, we're never gonna train with the gi. If you, if someone never trained with a gi before? And they go against someone with a gi? It depends on how long that person's been training with a gi for. Because, hey, no gi and gi have all kinds of similarities. They have all kinds of similarities. They also have some differences. And depending on how much you do of each is where you're gonna kind of shake out which one you're better at. But there is, there is so much crossover between gi and no gi.

• 1:34:46Jocko Willink?

  Between skydiving on the weekends and skydiving in the teams and shooting on the weekends and shooting in the teams. The way I always looked at it was, train more. Train, train all the time with everything, you know, as much as you can. And that's, that's how you get better at things. But yeah, that combatant thing was, and it still is, it still is.

• 1:35:07Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:35:08Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's, it's, it's hard. It's hard to change.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  It's a, it's a taboo thing for some reason. And, and it totally depends on who's, who's at the, the head of the table.

• 1:35:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  You know, what, what, what their flavor is, what their take is on it. And if the guy, you know, is like you or me, and then it's like, hey, we're all gonna fuck in. We all need to know this, we all need to do it. And then other guys come in, they're like, ah, that shit's stupid, we don't need that.

• 1:35:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and I was, I was when someone would say, guys should be working on shooting. I'd say, I totally agree. Absolutely. You know, give us a range, you know, in the building and we'll do that in the building. Because that's without question, our primary weapon system. And, you know, no doubt, I, you, you want to be a great shot, for sure. Guess what? How many hours are you gonna shoot a day? I mean, are you gonna shoot 22 hours a day? Cause you're gonna have some time at some point where you go, you know what, let's get some other skills in here, you know? We might as well know, and like you said earlier, you can't just go, you don't just go on target and shoot everyone. There's a, there's a female, you know, Dave Burke, who's one of the guys at Echelon Front.

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  Good deal.

• 1:36:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he, he has a, he has a story that he tells about the first time he came face to face with this like Iraqi woman that did not want him in the house. And he's, you know, whatever, 18 year Marine at this point, and he didn't know what to do.

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:32Jocko Willink?

  And it's like, yeah, you, you, you need to train, you need to train to handle those situations.

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  And, and a lot of people, you know, the people are unpredictable.

• 1:36:43Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:36:44Speaker 01

  Are just totally unpredictable and especially in a situation where they don't know, like, a bunch of people with guns and body armor just busted up in their fucking house, like, you think that person's gonna be like just cool as a cucumber or calm, like, I don't know. And then when you put hands on people too, people freak the fuck out and, and you know, and you don't need to just muzzle strike everyone. Like you said, like, if you do that, you're gonna get shut down real quick. You know what I mean? And you're, you should be, as an elite warrior, you should be expected,

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  or at least I expect people to handle themselves, like, and you shouldn't let this fucking Iraqi woman just walk all over you or fucking flail around, cause like you don't know what to do. I can't muzzle strike her, I can't shoot her. So what, what do I gotta do? You know what I mean? And if you've never, and that's just like a woman, but if let, now you have like a fighting age male or something and, you know, oh, if he resists, I'll just kill him. No, that's, it's not the case always, you know, it's definitely not, like, and uh,

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  You know, you definitely don't want the first time that you're handling a human being like that to be overseas when it's real and they can, you know, very easily get to your shit on your kit and, you know, it can be a bad day. And especially like, I tell people, you know, just think of like muzzle muzzle discipline and awareness, you know, like when you have your gun, even at high ready and then you're marshaling someone and they freak the fuck out. Now, all of a sudden, you've got a hot weapon like going around the room. It's just shit that there's so much things that you you need to think about. And the more you do it, the more comfortable you're gonna be with it. And that was kind of my mindset towards it.

• 1:38:37Jocko Willink?

  At what point did you realize you were gonna get out?

• 1:38:40Speaker 01

  Um, well, I wasn't, I wasn't sure. I was fighting and stuff and I was just kind of doing that as as for fun, as a hobby on the weekends and competing and stuff like that. And then I had gone out and trained at Black House with some UFC fighters. And

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  I had always like, looked at the UFC, you know, I was always a fan. And I enjoyed fighting and stuff. And but I'd always looked at those guys like they were kind of superhuman or like, like it was like the NFL of fighting, like those guys are genetic freaks or whatever. You know what I mean? When you think of someone in the NFL, you're just like, man, it must be nice to be born like that, you know, or whatever. But fighting is kind of a unique thing where, I don't know, anyone can do it. And as long as you just put in the the work, you know what I mean? So, and being a genetic freak helps too. But, but I had

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  gotten there, I had gotten to Black House and I trained with some of the people in the UFC and I was just like, holy shit, like, I'm actually like, doing fine, like, I'm hanging with these guys and. And, um, you know, talking to them and, and just kinda getting to know some of these guys and it just made it a little more human. You know, and it's like, well, what did you do before you were a fighter? Like, oh, I fucking worked at a restaurant, you know, I was a busboy or whatever. I was, uh, you know, this, that, the third. And I was just thinking, you know, and they're all looking at me like, dude, dude, you're a fucking Navy SEAL, like, and I'm just like, yeah, but that's all I've ever known. And that's all I've ever done. I did right out of high school, you know?

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  And, uh, and I'm just me, you know, and I know like I'm not special, you know what I mean? And it just kinda made, had a like a shift or like a realization, like, these are just people just like you and, and they just fucking stuck with fighting and practiced it until they were good enough to beat, you know, the competition and now they're here. And I was like, fuck, I, I can do that. Like, I'm pretty good, you know? And, um, yeah, and I've been through some shit, like, I could push myself hard, like, fuck, I could do this. And at the time, like I was, I'd already been a SEAL for a while and, and, you know, I got to experience a, a ton.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  And life and just in war and, and just that whole lifestyle and that whole thing and, and, uh,

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  I was just at a crossroads, you know, and I was like, well, I can stay in and make a career out of this, like I was planning on doing. I was planning on staying in for 20 years. Um, and, you know, I can screen and, you know, try and make it over there and,

• 1:41:44Speaker 01

  or I can get out and, and kinda pursue this and, and at the time I was 29 or, or, yeah, I was 27 when I was like making this decision. And, um, I was like, you know, fighting is kind of a young man's game. And, uh, like you read earlier in the beginning of this, like, you can't, you can't even pause time, you know, it waits for no one. And.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  Uh, I was like, well, if I, if I just keep down this road, I, I don't want to think like, what if, or like regret, you know? And I was like, I've already, I've already been on this path for a while and, and it's cool and all that, but I want to see what else I can do. So I, and I was really fucking struggling with, with that decision for a long time. It was stressing me out and uh, then once I just said, fuck it and this decided, you know, which way I was going, then the like, all that stress like relief, this, it was a big reliever. And uh, yeah, decided to get out and

• 1:42:50Jocko Willink?

  And what, what year was that?

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  Um, I got out in 2018.

• 1:42:56Jocko Willink?

  And how many amateur fights did you have when you were in?

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  Uh, like 17 or something.

• 1:43:03Jocko Willink?

  And then, and did you go pro while you were still in?

• 1:43:05Speaker 01

  No, they wouldn't let me and that was like, it was so frustrating to me because in Virginia, the amateur rule set is the exact same as pro. So it's day before weigh-ins, um, you know, all strikes like

• 1:43:19Jocko Willink?

  No shim pads?

• 1:43:20Speaker 01

  Elbows, no shim pads, you know, it's four ounce gloves, no headgear, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's fucking pro.

• 1:43:29Jocko Willink?

  Five minute rounds?

• 1:43:30Speaker 01

  Uh, no, there were three, three, three minute rounds.

• 1:43:33Jocko Willink?

  Three minute rounds, yeah.

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  Three minute rounds. Um, but some, some of them had five minute rounds, like I fought in North Carolina. Um, so yeah, it was no different, you know? And uh, trying to explain that to like my command and shit. And I'm like, there is literally no difference and uh, guess what? Like a punch from, punch in the face from an amateur feels the same from a pro.

• 1:43:57Jocko Willink?

  That's why I'll tell you what, man.

• 1:43:59Speaker 01

  Like those, that bruise that came from an amateur would've came from a pro too.

• 1:44:03Jocko Willink?

  Dude, when I talked to Tim Kennedy about this, like it's so crazy. The army gave that guy and gives him so much, I mean, he's a great guy and obviously a credible fighter, but yeah, I mean, he was just full on just getting after it, man. Well, and he still is.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they supported him.

• 1:44:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he's all, it's awesome.

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  They, they, they, man, I ran into Total fucking roadblocks left and right with my fighting and um you know and I use the argument all the time like guys

• 1:44:32Jocko Willink?

  Brian Stan same way Brian Stan yeah he was in the Marine Corps yeah He was a damn officer of the Marine Corps just out there fighting in the W E C

• 1:44:40Speaker 01

  But the uh the fuck

• 1:44:41Jocko Willink?

  No trading

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Tim Kennedy they they sponsored him

• 1:44:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah yeah

• 1:44:45Speaker 01

  You know what I mean it's like Ranger up or whatever

• 1:44:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah well Rangers up is is actually Tim's co- uh company no Tim but for a while Tim Tim was like he I forget the exact story but he he was sponsored by like the army

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Yeah

• 1:45:00Jocko Willink?

  For a while

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  They were using it as like a recruiting tool

• 1:45:02Jocko Willink?

  And then he said listen you can either keep paying me a sponsorship or you can just let me come back on active duty and and they were like uh that sounds like a good financial deal for us so yeah Tim Tim's

• 1:45:13Speaker 01

  Yeah and that's and that's why I kind of was forced to to choose because I was running into so much fucking bullshit

• 1:45:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah

• 1:45:21Speaker 01

  And um you know like Glory uh Glory had come to town and they were doing a fight at the Hampton Coliseum and um you know at this point I had already had quite a quite a few fights under my belt and had some uh popularity I guess as a fighter and and they had heard about me and um they invited me to to fight on the show and Mike Tyson was gonna be there and shit and I was like man this is gonna be a fucking huge opportunity it's on Spike TV too and um I was you know I was like can I can I fight on this and and they're like eh you know we'll

• 1:46:01Speaker 01

  we'll see what we can do blah blah blah and then last you know last minute they they told me no you know and I was just like

• 1:46:10Jocko Willink?

  If I would have been your boss you would have been fighting

• 1:46:13Speaker 01

  I I know and that's that's the shitty part is like you know it depends on who's who's at this at the table at the moment

• 1:46:20Jocko Willink?

  And you know now that I think about it because I'm just sitting here thinking like uh there's probably a in fact I remember seeing some kind of policy That they put in place at some point. I forget even if it was yes or no. I forget.

• 1:46:32Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:46:32Jocko Willink?

  I don't even remember.

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  But my argument to the was like all the time was like, like just same one with the skydiving, you know, I'm like guys fucking skydive all the time. There's leapfrogs, you know? Why not? Why don't the Navy? Why doesn't the Navy use me as a recruiting tool? You know, like I, I would, I don't want to get out of the teams. I, I want to stay in the teams, but I also want to fight and like, I can do this. Like, I was ranked number one on the East Coast and two weight classes, you know? And I was like, I'm pretty good at this shit. Like, you know, and it, I don't understand why we don't utilize this, utilize me as a recruiting tool. You know, go to the fights, set up a fucking pull-up bar, hand out T-shirts and try and hand, you know, or go to the, they, they had me go to the national

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  uh, high school wrestling contest or, or tournament. And they had me do like a combatives demonstration and, and had me go out there and wrestle with all the, the high school students and stuff. And yeah, I fucking brought it.

• 1:47:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I'll tell you what, man. The, uh, you know, I was up at the California state championships last year. Or no, it was 2019. Yeah.

• 1:47:43Speaker 01

  It was like a high, a bunch of hyenas out.

• 1:47:45Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah. I mean, my, my, my, my daughter was competing and, but you know, we're up there and the boys, they're just animals. They're animals. It's, it's awesome to see. Yeah. It's, it's.

• 1:47:57Speaker 01

  Those kids were fucking tough. And they fucking, they all wanted some. They were like, and, and, cause I was there in like cami, cami pants, you know, and the fucking blue UDT seal shirts and, and, uh, we brought the pull-up bar and, and, you know, cause the, I think Bud, Bud's likes, they try to get wrestlers. Because wrestlers, you know, wrestlers, I, I don't even want to say wrestlers have a good chance of making it through Bud's because.

• 1:48:25Jocko Willink?

  That's not true.

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  It's definitely not true.

• 1:48:27Jocko Willink?

  They have a slightly better chance than a normal.

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  Right. However, however wrestlers are used to a fucking grind and that's probably why they're a little bit more.

• 1:48:37Speaker 01

  comfortable and used to the grind factor of buds that does not mean they're used to getting cold and wet and dealing with all that shit. But they're used to dealing with the grind. So whatever and they're competitive. So, uh, so we went there and yeah, all those, all these fucking high school wrestlers are looking at me like I got something to prove, you know, or whatever. And, and I'm out there representing the fucking SEAL Team. So I'm like, hey, I got something to prove too. Let's go young buck. And, uh, so we, we know it was a good time, but I was like, why, why don't they fucking, they're cool with this, but not like fighting, like what's the difference? Like, I don't know.

• 1:49:18Speaker 01

  So I just ran into tons of frustrating headaches like that. And that's what really ultimately decided to, you know, I was just decided to go, go this way and I'm glad I did, but.

• 1:49:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And that's, you know, I gotta say like the SEAL Teams, I never tried to fight pro, but like the SEAL Teams was totally support. Like I would go and, train at places that give me.

• 1:49:39Speaker 01

  Well, the West Coast was a lot different than the East Coast. You guys, you guys were definitely more supported on that kind of stuff, extracurricular.

• 1:49:48Jocko Willink?

  Check. So you get out and then when did you go pro?

• 1:49:54Speaker 01

  Uh, right after I got out.

• 1:49:56Jocko Willink?

  So you've been pro for a year and a half, two years right now?

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  A year and a half.

• 1:49:59Jocko Willink?

  And how many fight, pro fights do you have?

• 1:50:01Speaker 01

  I've only done two pro fights so far. Um, I, uh, won my first one by TKO in the third round. It was a good, really good fight. Um, uh, against another pro who, he was a pro boxer as well. And, and he had called me out and kind of campaigned for the fight or whatever. And,

• 1:50:19Jocko Willink?

  cool.

• 1:50:19Speaker 01

  So I blaged and, uh, and then, uh, and then I did my, uh, LFA debut. Um, I, I fight in Asanga. I don't know if you've seen, um, any pictures or videos of me.

• 1:50:32Jocko Willink?

  I have unfortunately seen that.

• 1:50:34Speaker 01

  You can't unsee it. You're welcome. So that's actually my buddy Jeff Gum. He owns that company.

• 1:50:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know Jeff.

• 1:50:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, um, so obviously, like, I try to support other team guys and their ventures and stuff like that. And, you know, uh, I'm, that was right up my alley with the, uh, I thought it was funny. If I'll pretty much do anything if I think it's funny. And, uh, so I, I fought in the Sanga, which is, for those of you don't know, it's kind of looks like a American flag diaper sort of thing. But it's sexy.

• 1:51:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, it's from Brazil. In Brazil, there's a Sanga and there's a Sanga. And I think the Sanga is like the smaller one and the Sanga is like a little bit, but they're, they're speedos.

• 1:51:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, essentially speedos.

• 1:51:22Jocko Willink?

  So they're speedos and Dean Lister, because he has so much Brazilian influence in his brain, he went through his phase of training with a Sanga. And, and, uh, those are some of the worst years of my life, to be honest with you.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  Well, no, no, or so, we can't do that today.

• 1:51:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so, uh, I'm, I'm not, I'm very anti Sanga and Sanga. But, but you, you know, you go for it.

• 1:51:52Speaker 01

  Well, I'd actually.

• 1:51:52Jocko Willink?

  Hey, it's if, if I wouldn't, it would make me want to fight you less.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:56Jocko Willink?

  If you were wearing that. So you got that little psychological.

• 1:51:58Speaker 01

  Right. It was, or it was like confusing to them.

• 1:52:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:52:02Jocko Willink?

  Which is, I mean, do you remember, were you watching like UFC when everyone was, when all the Brazilians were still wearing them in UFC? And they still do sometimes.

• 1:52:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I've seen some of them.

• 1:52:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. But anyways.

• 1:52:13Speaker 01

  But I thought it was funny. So, uh, I, so I got a little cup patch sewn into it so I could put my cup in it. And that was my, my new fighting attire. And, uh, yeah, I went out. It, it couldn't have, uh,

• 1:52:27Speaker 01

  I don't know, it was awesome, we'll say that. I went out, I fought on LFA, on national TV, and it was during a military appreciation fight. And so they hosted the fight at an army base, and it was in a hangar, you know, with helicopters, and we've got all these people, all these active-duty army people in their uniforms and stuff in the crowd. And, you know, here I am, the Navy SEAL, and the American flag's beaded, and come out to fight, and got knocked out in 30 seconds. So, it's like, eh, can't get really that much worse from here, so, that's cool.

• 1:53:09Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 1:53:10Speaker 01

  But, no, it was, it was actually, they called it the craziest 31 seconds in LFA history.

• 1:53:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I watched it, I watched it.

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  It was, it was-

• 1:53:18Jocko Willink?

  Normally I don't have a lot of time to watch fights.

• 1:53:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:20Jocko Willink?

  I had time for a while.

• 1:53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:22Jocko Willink?

  But yeah, that's, I saw it. I think you posted it somewhere, or somebody sent it to me.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  I posted the whole video. I mean, which some, which so many people were, were so, like, they were like, "Wow, I can't believe you posted this," and like-

• 1:53:36Jocko Willink?

  You sat him down first, right? Didn't you sit him down?

• 1:53:38Speaker 01

  No, so, he had a 14-inch reach on me. He was 6'3", and fucking big-ass dude, and honestly, like, I didn't even know, like, we were, we were real cordial with each other, like, at weigh-ins and stuff like that, so I wasn't sure if, like, we were gonna touch gloves or not, you know? Because it's always kind of a, I feel like they should just, like, make that a rule, like, you are, you, you either do or you don't. It's a rule with me now, so, but, I wasn't sure if we were gonna touch gloves or not, and like, kind of coming out, dude, he honestly, he hit me, like, I didn't even know he could reach me from where he was, and it was just like, I think from that, that, that big weight, I do a big weight cut, and

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  I think it just, you know, just fucking, just put me on queer street right away, and so, right out of the gates, I, I was rocked, and, and was kind of, fell down, and was just, he'd swarmed me, and I was just getting punches thrown at me, left and right, and I'm just kind of like, seeing stars, trying to gain my composure, and then I finally, like, got backed up in, into, against the cage, and, and- Gained my composure for a second, landed a one, a clean one-two and, and dropped him. And then, uh, ran over, like got excited when I dropped him down, kinda went over towards him and, and fucking just,

• 1:55:02Speaker 01

  I think probably my coordination was just kinda off still from just getting rocked and, and I literally just tripped right over, head over him, over his body. And then as we're both standing up, he fucking threw another punch and that was it. So, and I was just like, god damn it. I'm a fucking Navy SEAL on a army base, like, fighting in an American flag speedo on national TV and just got knocked the fuck out.

• 1:55:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  But, you know.

• 1:55:37Jocko Willink?

  I don't know what to tell you.

• 1:55:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:39Jocko Willink?

  No, that's, that's, hey, man, you're getting out there.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  Hey, yeah.

• 1:55:42Jocko Willink?

  That's what you gotta do.

• 1:55:43Speaker 01

  It is what it is.

• 1:55:43Jocko Willink?

  There's, there's, there's gonna be a winner and a loser.

• 1:55:45Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:55:46Jocko Willink?

  And if you, the real losers are the ones that are actually not getting in the ring.

• 1:55:51Speaker 01

  Hey, you know, a lot, a lot more times than not, I've come out victorious. So, uh, it is what it is. I, I don't, it doesn't slow me down, doesn't bum me out or whatever, just part of it. And I, I understand that going into it. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

• 1:56:07Jocko Willink?

  And what's your next fight?

• 1:56:08Speaker 01

  Um, we're setting up one, uh, looking at August 25th in, uh, Riverside, hopefully with the LFA. So, hopefully that goes through and, and I'll be all set to go.

• 1:56:21Jocko Willink?

  Any idea on an opponent yet?

• 1:56:22Speaker 01

  No. I don't care who it is. Just, I just want someone.

• 1:56:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:28Speaker 01

  I don't care. Like, I, I never really care who my opponent is, honestly. I don't, I don't look at really their skill set, or I never have, really. I don't care because. I've dealt with people just so much and like combatives and and jujitsu and fighting. It's just like people are unpredictable and that's what I stick with like you may think you have a game plan figured out and then all of a sudden they do something different and I don't even want to be thinking about, oh, well, I thought he was gonna do this and I had this setup for this and you know what I mean like?

• 1:57:02Jocko Willink?

  I I know what you mean. I will say this. When you find out who your opponent is, you gotta watch him. You gotta watch him. You gotta at least figure out because there's people that have things. They have their game and if they have that game and you and you know about it, as you know, like if if you know I'm good at whatever, you'll defend that thing, right?

• 1:57:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:57:24Jocko Willink?

  And if you don't know it, well, then I'll I'll get you in that situation, right? If you really, let's like, um, well, anybody, anybody, if you, everyone's got that thing at their game that they're good at, right? And like in jujitsu, hey, this guy's got a good guillotine. This guy's got a good armlock. This guy's got good heel hooks or whatever. Everyone's got their little thing. And if they're good at it, then that's what they'll kind of steer you towards. But, um, yeah, so I always and and I always say, look, I get it. We don't care who the opponent is, but when you find out who your opponent is, take a look, you know, send it to me. Let me look at it. You know what I mean? Cause like I've been watching these

• 1:58:04Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:58:05Jocko Willink?

  Things forever to say, hey, looks like this guy's got this. And you also have to watch more than, you know, watch like three or four fights and see if they have any grappling tournaments that are posted on NAGA or whatever on YouTube, you know, and you find out what kind of game they have. And if you can do that, then you can learn from it and you can take it into the, you can take it into the cage with you.

• 1:58:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I I'm definitely not opposed to doing that at all. I just, uh, I just don't put all my eggs in the basket.

• 1:58:32Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:58:33Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And that way I don't, if if shit doesn't go according to plan, like, that's cool.

• 1:58:36Jocko Willink?

  Cause they're gonna evolve too.

• 1:58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:58:38Jocko Willink?

  They're gonna evolve, but guess what they'll go back to? They'll go back to what they're good at.

• 1:58:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:58:44Jocko Willink?

  You know what I mean? So that's another thing to think about.

• 1:58:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:47Jocko Willink?

  Well, cool.

• 1:58:48Speaker 01

  Um, I, uh, so that glory, that actual story, um,

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  When I had gotten told no, uh, that I wasn't able to do that fucking event in Hampton Road. So I was, I was really bummed out and uh, so I ended up actually just calling the guy. I already like had decided at that point. I was like, you know what? Fuck this. I'm getting out of the Navy. Like I'm, I don't want, I don't want to be told what I can and can't do or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, and uh, so I called the, the guy back and said, well, when's the next one? And he was like, oh, we got, we got another, another one coming up in San Diego. And I said, put me on that one. And I, so I just took leave and it's like, yeah, I'm, I'm just going to San Diego. And I ended up fighting on the glory card in San Diego. I just took leave and, and went out there and did it anyway.

• 1:59:39Speaker 01

  And uh, ended up knocking the guy out in the second round.

• 1:59:42Jocko Willink?

  Right on. Good outcome. Well, this is a, a pretty good spot since we're up to current events. What else? I know you got your supplement company. You got T-shirts. What else? How can people support what you got going on?

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  Um, I would say, uh, the biggest, uh, biggest way is probably on Instagram. Um, that's my, really my only platform. Uh, I put out a lot of content on Instagram. I do, uh, my live streams from there. I thought about doing a podcast as well, but, but uh, I think I'm just going to stick to my Instagram lives and just kind of treat them as podcasts or whatever. Uh, cause I like talking and interacting with, with my supporters a lot and uh, you know? So I figure people get bored just talking to me for a long time in a room like this. I don't know. But uh, yeah, I would say, uh, follow me on Instagram at, uh, at Mitch Aguiar.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  Um, and yeah, we've got a supplement company. Um, our main product is a thing called the Smashing Greens. That's what I gave you today. And uh, that, that actually is a blend of different organic superfoods. Um, so I watched this documentary called Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead. I don't know if you've seen it or not. I have not. It's on Netflix and uh this guy, he he was really overweight and had this some sort of skin disease and he ended up getting a juicer and ended up doing sixty days of just vegetable juice and uh he ended up losing a ton of weight and um his skin disease cleared up

• 2:01:21Speaker 01

  and just like the doctors were just like blown away at at at how healthy he had become, you know, just from from doing all this and learned about micronutrients and all this stuff. So I was like, man, that seems like a cool uh cool thing. Like I want I want to try it, you know? I've never fasted before or anything like that and uh went out and bought a juicer and it was it was a fucking pain in the ass to clean that thing like three times a day and I was having I had to buy like thirty dollars worth of vegetables every day to make enough juice to, you know, put into a glass that would somewhat keep me full. And I was just like, there's gotta be a better way than this shit. And so uh

• 2:02:06Speaker 01

  ended up going to a vitamin shop and saw like organic freeze dried wheatgrass and you just add water to it. And I was like, oh, my God, that's so much better, you know? So I went and basically picked out a bunch of ingredients that I did research on that, you know, things that I wanted and um and uh put them all into like a shaker cup and added water and drank it and did did a fast that way. And uh it was obviously much cheaper, much better, like just more conven- way more convenient and everything like that. And I just didn't have anything to post on Instagram one day and uh and so I just shared it. I

• 2:02:51Speaker 01

  was just like, hey, this is kind of a concoction that I came up with and and I do my I do a five day fast like this and uh just kind of it makes me feel good, helps me lose weight. And then I started doing that, like cutting weight for my fights and um. And then people, it just fucking caught on like wildfire, like everyone was like, wha- what is that? What is that? And then I was like, look, I'm not associated with these companies at all, you know, like these aren't, I don't get it paid for this, like this is just, here, this is what I do and like, put it, laid it all out there and it's like you can get all these products on Amazon or your local vitamin shop or whatever and just made it as idiot proof as I could.

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  And I was just getting bombarded with questions non-stop, but, but it was like, a lot of people were having like a ton of success fasting with that and losing weight. So I was like, well, that's pretty cool, you know, like I'm really, I'm down to help people, you know, better themselves and I enjoy like pushing people and pushing myself and trying to be better and everything, so, um, so I stuck with it and just kept, kept answering all the questions or whatever. And then after like a year and a half or so, I ended up, um, making my own, you know, it's just like, well, I might as well fucking make this my own product. And so I found a way to, to kind of make that come to life and, um, took all those products basically and just put them into one,

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  removed all the fillers and all the bullshit in there and just was like, you know, I didn't know anything about the supplement industry or anything like that. I just never intended on, on doing that, but it just kind of came about and, uh, you know, delivered a product that was way more convenient than everyone was already using and buying all these other things and now, now it's like my product and they're able to support me and now it's like, I don't, you know, I don't have an issue answering these questions now that, that you're buying my product. You know what I mean? So, um, now it's, it's been super awesome because we've had just a ton of people

• 2:05:00Speaker 01

  lose so much weight and like my brother lost a hundred and ten pounds, you know, using it. So it really works, which is cool, you know, and it, and it's really helpful for people and it's changing their lives and like, I'm all about that. And now like it's supporting me financially now that I'm not out, you know, in the Navy anymore. Cause I didn't, I didn't get a retirement or anything like that. I just got out. So, um, so yeah, it's super cool. And, and, uh, the supplement in a company like now that I've been in it for a little while, like, I'm starting to get more understanding of it and, and, uh, we're, we're doing pre-workout,

• 2:05:42Speaker 01

  protein, BCAAs, all that stuff, like kinda expanding it and, and, um, you know, now I'm like really involved with it and, and I'm just treating it like everything else. Like I always try to, uh, you know, under promise and over deliver. And like, I always want to make sure that like people are getting like a something good, you know? I don't wanna ever feel like I jipped someone or got one over, something like that. Like when people come to use my products, like I want them to be like a fucking satisfied.

• 2:06:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, for sure. That's the best policy to have. Make the best.

• 2:06:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. So just don't skimp, you know, like my, my, my, my end game is not to make the most profit. Like I want an actual good fucking product, like that my name's behind, you know, and I'm proud of.

• 2:06:33Jocko Willink?

  What's the, uh, what's the website?

• 2:06:35Speaker 01

  Um, you can either go to smashinfrog.com or massifsupplements.com. M A S F supplements.com. Either one, they go to the same place, but yeah. And, uh, we got T-shirts and stuff, but, uh, I'm, I'm basically streamlining my T-shirts, uh, cause I had massive apparel and I just made a bunch of T-shirts that, that I wanted to make, you know? That were like personal to me, like the mindset is everything, attitude is contagious, don't be a pussy, be humble, you know? These are shirts that like, I've kinda made all the shirts that I wanna make and I made them. I was kind of a T-shirt snob, uh, before I had my company. And then

• 2:07:19Speaker 01

  once I made my company and like got into the apparel industry, like I just wanted like really comfortable, nice fitting, good quality T-shirts and printed my own shit on them. And that's all I wear now. But I'm just streamlining it down to a couple that I like and, um, I'm actually launching a new brand pretty soon that I'm very excited about.

• 2:07:42Jocko Willink?

  Cool, cool, right on, man.

• 2:07:44Speaker 01

  So if you follow me on Instagram, you'll, you can keep up with all that stuff I got going on and, and watch my future fights and hopefully I don't get knocked out.

• 2:07:57Jocko Willink?

  Echo, you got anything?

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  What happened with that dodgeball fight you're talking about?

• 2:08:03Speaker 01

  Oh, man. It was oddly enough, it was in a church also. So I got into a dodgeball church fight. Dodgeball church.

• 2:08:12Jocko Willink?

  Did you win that one?

• 2:08:14Speaker 01

  I did and knocked the guy's teeth out. We, we were there to practice our dodgeball and we were taking it very seriously. You know, because there was a tournament coming up that I think had like a $500 prize, which when you're like 16, $500 is.

• 2:08:34Speaker 02

  A million.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that'll go a long way. Go a long way. So, you know, the stakes were high and we were, we were, we were there and there was some local jokers that were just, you know, not taking it seriously and like just fucking with our practice and stuff and.

• 2:08:53Jocko Willink?

  Dude, if there's one thing that makes me angry, legitimately angry is when people aren't taking dodgeball seriously.

• 2:08:58Speaker 01

  You know, it just.

• 2:09:01Speaker 01

  It was, there was a time for joking around. There was a time for seriousness and, you know, that wasn't the time and ended up, you know, I ended up saying something to this dude and just, he just kind of fucking mouthed off and, you know, my temper's, temper's flared and.

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  Escalated.

• 2:09:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, things escalated and ended up getting into like a full-on brawl.

• 2:09:22Speaker 02

  Full-on dodgeball.

• 2:09:23Jocko Willink?

  Dodgeball gang fight.

• 2:09:25Speaker 01

  It was a dodge brawl.

• 2:09:26Speaker 02

  Dodge brawl.

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  It was dodge brawl.

• 2:09:28Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 2:09:29Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:09:29Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:09:30Speaker 01

  It was a good time.

• 2:09:31Jocko Willink?

  Well, awesome. Um, hey, speaking of fighting.

• 2:09:36Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:09:36Jocko Willink?

  And smashing things.

• 2:09:38Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:09:39Jocko Willink?

  I mean, Echo?

• 2:09:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:09:42Jocko Willink?

  We want to be better at fighting. We want to be better at living. What do you got? What do you got for us?

• 2:09:47Speaker 02

  I got a few things. So we'll start with jiu-jitsu, right? Jiu-jitsu? You like gi or no gi better?

• 2:09:57Speaker 01

  I'm starting to like no gi better, I would say, just because I feel like it's more applicable to the cage. However, um, you know, like Jaco was saying earlier, I, I agree wholeheartedly. I think that everyone who trains jujitsu should train in a gi as well because, uh, you know, there are a lot of similarities and I feel like if you only train no gi, and then you go against someone with a, put a gi on with any sort of decent skill level, you're gonna get fucking choked, for sure.

• 2:10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:31Speaker 01

  And, uh, it just, the gi slows everything down and it's a, it's a totally different animal. And the thing is like, you can train in a gi all the time and take the gi off, and roll with someone no gi and you're, you're gonna do fine. You're, you're still doing jujitsu, you know what I mean? It's a different game, but it's not that much different. But going from no gi to gi, very different. So, that's why I think, I think people should definitely train in a gi still.

• 2:10:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, agree. Yeah, both is best, for sure. Um, yeah, the gi adds these elements that if you only train no gi, you're not used to those elements. And if someone else is used to those elements, all the no gi, well, most of the no gi elements are in the gi. You know, like those elements are there, for the most part.

• 2:11:17Speaker 01

  And clothes, you know, like using, like if you were getting a street fight, like you can use clothes like a gi.

• 2:11:23Speaker 02

  Right, so it gives you even that many more options, yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, I agree. Well, speaking of gi's, what gi we're gonna get? Everyone's doing jujitsu now. I feel like it's growing, essentially. So what kind of gi are we getting? Origin gi. You know why we're getting origin gi's? Because they're made in America and they are factually the best gi's in the world. Rash guards as well. Okay, so where do we get them? We get them at originmaine.com.

• 2:11:48Jocko Willink?

  That's also where we're getting jeans.

• 2:11:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:50Jocko Willink?

  By the way.

• 2:11:50Speaker 02

  And I got mine, by the way.

• 2:11:53Jocko Willink?

  Approval level?

• 2:11:54Speaker 02

  One hundred. You know, I'm always reluctant to say, you know, hundred one percent approval, but here, I'm gonna say it. Hundred one percent approval because they exceeded, literally exceeded my expectation.

• 2:12:04Jocko Willink?

  And your expectations were high.

• 2:12:05Speaker 02

  Were, yeah, hundred percent. I was like, yeah, the way you're talking, the way they, you know, Petey does a good job in building these things up. You know, he's taking close up pictures of the buttons, coming out of the factory that it's really good. So I'm like, alright, expectation, expectation level is high, hundred percent. These have to be five star jeans, essentially. They're like five star plus, some added things that I was impressed with, so yes, hundred, hundred one percent approval, yes.

• 2:12:28Jocko Willink?

  So jeans, you can get them, t-shirts.

• 2:12:32Speaker 02

  Rash guards.

• 2:12:33Jocko Willink?

  Supplements.

• 2:12:34Speaker 02

  Supplements, yes. So, what kind of supplements? Joint warfare. Which I'm happy, man, I've been on the joint warfare, I think it's been one year consistent, joint warfare krill oil.

• 2:12:44Jocko Willink?

  So approved.

• 2:12:46Speaker 02

  Hundred percent approved. Actually, adding value, providing value, even beyond what you might think in the beginning. Cause you know, when, you know, when we're young, you know, we're all young guys or whatever. You don't care, you know, you have muscle soreness, you have all this stuff, whatever. The joint soreness is one of those things that just kinda creeps up on you. But if you're on top of that, that doesn't take it, it'll take you out of the game if you're not ready.

• 2:13:08Speaker 01

  Preventative.

• 2:13:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And when it comes about, I get like elbow stuff from lifting and stuff. But if, if I was on like joint warfare, glucose, mean, could join any, any one of these things that they did recommend when I started grappling, by the way. If I was on that, I would have never got out of the game at any point. Unless, the point is, get your joint warfare, get your krill oil and stay on that.

• 2:13:32Jocko Willink?

  Get your discipline too.

• 2:13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, fully.

• 2:13:34Jocko Willink?

  Get your discipline. Discipline is like all day now.

• 2:13:38Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 2:13:39Jocko Willink?

  That's kinda where it's going. It's, yeah, it's like, yeah, guess what I'm just drinking? Oh, I'm just gonna have some discipline.

• 2:13:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:13:45Jocko Willink?

  It's kind of.

• 2:13:46Speaker 01

  I saw you poured this, uh, is this what you're talking?

• 2:13:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. It's just tastiness and goodness.

• 2:13:51Speaker 01

  Pre-mission, is this a pre-workout?

• 2:13:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's, it's not like a super, um.

• 2:13:57Jocko Willink?

  There's not like a super caffeinated deal because I don't drink a lot of caffeine and I don't want to drink a lot of caffeine. So, yeah. You little cognitive, a little physical.

• 2:14:07Speaker 01

  Okay, and you and you just sip this all day?

• 2:14:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I don't have like some and I won't drink it like after dinner. You know, because I there's a little bit of caffeine in it and I don't drink a lot of caffeine, so.

• 2:14:19Speaker 01

  Not even in the mornings when you when you're waking up?

• 2:14:22Jocko Willink?

  Nope.

• 2:14:23Speaker 01

  Four thirty.

• 2:14:23Speaker 02

  Just a little bit.

• 2:14:24Jocko Willink?

  I have tea, the white tea has some caffeine in it too. So I guess I do drink caffeine, but I don't drink high doses like like a like a monster energy drink or whatever.

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.

• 2:14:37Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of energy drink, we got an energy drink coming out. But it's it's actually good for you, which is completely. It's like we it's hard to call it an energy drink because energy drink puts it in a in a category with things that are actually horrible for you.

• 2:14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:14:55Jocko Willink?

  Right, like the normal energy drinks that are just horrible for you. This is something that you can legitimately just drink and it's good for you.

• 2:15:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:02Jocko Willink?

  So that's coming out. You'll see some cans of that in the near future.

• 2:15:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Also, milk.

• 2:15:11Speaker 02

  If you want a dessert, if you want extra protein in the form of a dessert, that's it, milk, all flavors.

• 2:15:17Jocko Willink?

  I like that just like if you want a dessert.

• 2:15:19Speaker 01

  You have a mint chocolate protein, right?

• 2:15:21Speaker 02

  Oh, big mint.

• 2:15:22Speaker 01

  I have a mint chocolate protein as well and I was my my protein or my supplements took a long time to come out like way I'm sure you've encountered whenever you're dealing with any kind of putting out something. It never goes according to plan and it's always longer than you're expecting or whatever and I had done a mint chocolate. I that was just I've been a huge fan of mint my whole life, mint chocolate, whatever.

• 2:15:50Jocko Willink?

  Me too.

• 2:15:51Speaker 01

  Deliciousness and and I saw that you put out a mint chocolate and I was like, God damn it, everyone is going to think I copied Jaco.

• 2:15:59Jocko Willink?

  I don't have the passion of mint chocolate.

• 2:16:02Speaker 02

  Or they'll probably think like dang, I thought I was the only one who loved mint chocolate better than everything else.

• 2:16:07Speaker 01

  I was like, you know what?

• 2:16:08Speaker 02

  We all kind of do.

• 2:16:09Speaker 01

  Me and Jaco were both seals, both like jujitsu, both like mint chocolate.

• 2:16:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, same thing with Pete, right? I mean, not not the name seal thing, but wait, was he into mint chocolate or peanut butter?

• 2:16:19Jocko Willink?

  Uh, he was into mint, but I think peanut butter. See, the peanut butter was kinda like the

• 2:16:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, the close second.

• 2:16:26Jocko Willink?

  And it started smashing.

• 2:16:28Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, and that makes sense because in my family, you know, I'm not this guy who's like, my favorite dessert is this or that. I'm not that, you know? But I will say that when you came out, it's almost like, you know, you're you're going public with your mint chocolate, uh, love, admiration. I was like, yeah, hey, me too. But peanut butter chocolate has always been my close, close second, easy money.

• 2:16:50Jocko Willink?

  But the one that really, the strawberry, because it's just so

• 2:16:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:56Jocko Willink?

  Good.

• 2:16:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. But and strawberry is a staple anyway, you know?

• 2:16:59Jocko Willink?

  It's a staple of everything, but so is vanilla, but I'm not over here, I'm not over here, uh, jumping up and down about vanilla.

• 2:17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, but some people.

• 2:17:06Jocko Willink?

  I know some people are.

• 2:17:07Speaker 01

  I've got, I've got a cinnamon toast crunch protein coming out, and I've gotta think of a name for it because I don't think I can legally call it cinnamon toast crunch.

• 2:17:15Jocko Willink?

  I don't either. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what the rules are.

• 2:17:19Speaker 01

  Uh, I thought about thinking of, uh, you know, growing up, uh, I always had, we were kind of not so, uh, financially gifted.

• 2:17:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:28Speaker 01

  Call it that, whatever, living in a trailer. And, uh, my mom would always get fruity dynobites, you know?

• 2:17:35Jocko Willink?

  There you go.

• 2:17:35Speaker 01

  And cinnamon toast squares. So I used to eat those out of the bag.

• 2:17:41Jocko Willink?

  Close. That's not what the other kids eat.

• 2:17:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:46Speaker 01

  Once I, uh, once I, once I joined the Navy and started getting, you know, a good paycheck, I just, I never, you know, I never again. I always appreciated my cereal game. It was always the, the good.

• 2:18:00Jocko Willink?

  The real stuff.

• 2:18:00Speaker 01

  Fruity Pebbles. There's no fruity dynobites in this house. Get out of here with that.

• 2:18:06Speaker 02

  Comes in the bag.

• 2:18:07Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of that, little kids need food. That's why I got Warrior Kid Milk, strawberry.

• 2:18:12Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 2:18:13Jocko Willink?

  Chocolate.

• 2:18:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:14Jocko Willink?

  Let them eat and be healthy. And you've got that chocolate.

• 2:18:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:19Speaker 01

  It's pretty good.

• 2:18:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, my wife gets like she hits a point in the day where she's like, man, I'm considering just to go to bed right now or to bust out a Jaco White Tea and just get after it.

• 2:18:29Speaker 01

  Literally says that.

• 2:18:30Jocko Willink?

  Decision point.

• 2:18:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I know the feeling, but man, she's really committed to it though.

• 2:18:34Speaker 01

  You gotta take.

• 2:18:35Speaker 02

  That's her go to.

• 2:18:36Speaker 01

  You gotta take something or create a supplement of some kind for a little power nap. Because.

• 2:18:42Jocko Willink?

  Working on it.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  You know, I did start a rumor that you take naps.

• 2:18:45Jocko Willink?

  No, I freely admit that.

• 2:18:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's very open about it.

• 2:18:49Jocko Willink?

  I wrote about it. I wrote about it in the Dis泌go's Freedom Field Manual. Yeah, I mean, if I'm really tired, I elevate my feet above my heart and I set an alarm and I'll sleep for eight minutes and, and.

• 2:19:00Speaker 01

  Eight minutes?

• 2:19:01Jocko Willink?

  Eight minutes. Yeah.

• 2:19:02Speaker 01

  Power nap?

• 2:19:02Jocko Willink?

  Yep. And if you go, I mean, sometimes I'll go 10, but if you start going 15, 20, then you, then you're like legitimately, you'll feel groggy, but you know the deal, man, from like you were talking about sleeping in a helicopter. Like you wake up from those things and you're totally on fire, you know, I was asleep for 10 minutes, eight minutes, whatever. So yeah, I'm, I have no problem with this.

• 2:19:20Speaker 01

  I, the problem with me is, uh, I don't know. I, I tend to nap better than I sleep. Um, and then like when I, when I wake up, my brain just starts going and it just, once that happens, it's just, that's it. I'm up.

• 2:19:36Speaker 02

  So when you say a supplement for power nap, it like helps you get into like power nap state like that kind?

• 2:19:41Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:19:44Speaker 02

  Hey, we'll look into it. Yeah, that's a good idea.

• 2:19:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we're working it.

• 2:19:47Speaker 02

  It could be your, your cinnamon toast crunch flavored situation.

• 2:19:50Jocko Willink?

  Have you taken Hypnos? Yeah. So Origin.

• 2:19:54Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:19:54Jocko Willink?

  We have, we have this thing called Hypnos, which is like.

• 2:19:57Speaker 01

  A sleep aid.

• 2:19:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's not for nap.

• 2:19:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, you need something, you need something that's just good for eight minutes. It's you, you take a rail of it and you're out for eight minutes, just fully recharged, power nap.

• 2:20:09Jocko Willink?

  I'm working on it.

• 2:20:09Speaker 02

  Well, wait, but technically, and I don't know, this just seems like this is true. Power nap. Okay. You know, you have like, what the five phases, right of sleep?

• 2:20:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:17Speaker 02

  Or six, five or six.

• 2:20:19Speaker 01

  I don't either. I actually have insomnia.

• 2:20:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. So yeah. So you can have, you probably get jammed up somewhere in one of those stages, right? Power nap is stage one, I think. I'm pretty sure it's only stage one, power nap.

• 2:20:32Jocko Willink?

  It depends on how tired you are.

• 2:20:33Speaker 02

  Well, then it won't be considered a power nap. If you're like super tired and you go boom, all the way fade uh stage five sleep, right? You went to bed.

• 2:20:41Speaker 01

  Do you have sleep apnea or anything?

• 2:20:42Jocko Willink?

  Nope.

• 2:20:42Speaker 01

  No? Yeah, I I don't have, I did a sleep study and I don't, I don't have sleep apnea, but I have insomnia. And it's like I wake up enough not to actually wake me up, but like it's like I wake up, don't even know I'm awake.

• 2:20:55Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 2:20:56Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So I wake up, when I do wake up, I'm fucking still exhausted. It's great.

• 2:21:03Speaker 01

  I'm actually, so one of the, I actually have a CBD line as well, um, which I don't know if you get into the CBD at all.

• 2:21:11Jocko Willink?

  Not really, no.

• 2:21:12Speaker 01

  No, um, but one of the products that that we're launching is a thing called Green Dreams. And it's a rapid dissolve, it's a rapid dissolve tablet that you put under your tongue and dissolves in like 10 seconds. And it's um, 25 milligrams of CBD and 10 milligrams of melatonin. So, but that's, that's not for an eight minute.

• 2:21:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that does sound like an eight minute power nap.

• 2:21:37Speaker 02

  That's the going to bed situation.

• 2:21:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a, that's a go to bed situation.

• 2:21:41Jocko Willink?

  Nighty night.

• 2:21:42Speaker 02

  Right on. Well, the opposite of that is Jaco White Tea, because you don't take that before you go to bed, maybe after you wake up in the middle of the day, like my wife or whatever. Also, if you're into deadlifting, which we all are, of course, it'll increase it to 8,000 pounds, proven by the way. Double blind, triple placebo situation. No joke. Also, we have our own store, Jaco has a store, it's called Jaco Store.

• 2:22:06Jocko Willink?

  We got rash guards, t-shirts.

• 2:22:09Speaker 02

  T-shirts you want to represent while on the path.

• 2:22:12Jocko Willink?

  Truckers hats.

• 2:22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:14Jocko Willink?

  For those of us that.

• 2:22:16Speaker 02

  Like truckers.

• 2:22:16Jocko Willink?

  Like truckers hats, which apparently.

• 2:22:18Speaker 02

  We do.

• 2:22:19Speaker 01

  They're nice, one, one size fits all.

• 2:22:21Jocko Willink?

  There you go.

• 2:22:21Speaker 02

  What about FlexFit?

• 2:22:22Speaker 01

  I did the FlexFit for a while, but you know, I got a small head.

• 2:22:26Speaker 02

  Wait, FlexFit has two sizes though.

• 2:22:28Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:22:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you're right.

• 2:22:29Speaker 01

  You gotta get, you gotta get the small, medium, or the large XL and.

• 2:22:32Jocko Willink?

  I don't know nothing about the.

• 2:22:33Speaker 02

  You're not even about that at all.

• 2:22:35Jocko Willink?

  Don't know anything about it.

• 2:22:36Speaker 02

  Turn you back to it.

• 2:22:36Jocko Willink?

  Hoodies.

• 2:22:37Speaker 02

  Hat snob over here. Yeah, hoodies, lightweight, and do you find use for a lightweight hoodie?

• 2:22:43Speaker 01

  Definitely, all the time, year round.

• 2:22:45Speaker 02

  Yes, sir. I agree. Not everyone agreed with that one.

• 2:22:49Speaker 01

  Do they have the zippers?

• 2:22:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, some, well, yes. So the ones we have, yes, they have zipper.

• 2:22:53Speaker 01

  I'm a fan of the, I'm a fan of the zipper, the zipper light hoodie with the pockets.

• 2:22:58Speaker 02

  Agree.

• 2:22:58Speaker 01

  I, I honestly, I don't even have any of my own in my apparel line at the moment, but uh, I'm a fan of those.

• 2:23:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:06Jocko Willink?

  I'm not.

• 2:23:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, dang, dang, you know, I mean.

• 2:23:09Jocko Willink?

  I'm just either t-shirt or heavy hoodie. That's the way it's at.

• 2:23:12Speaker 02

  All functional and I get it, you know, but.

• 2:23:15Speaker 01

  That's like a gi, man. A zip, a zipped up, a non, or a zipping lightweight. Sort of fucking gi.

• 2:23:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Play some warm guard without for sure. And uh, you know, hopefully it looks good. Hope, hopefully you like the design, but you will be representing while you're on the path. A lot of good stuff on there. Jaco store. Dot com. Some patches on there too. I reordered some more patches. They're coming in.

• 2:23:38Jocko Willink?

  Thank you.

• 2:23:39Speaker 02

  I made a mistake. Hey, I made a mistake.

• 2:23:43Speaker 02

  I don't want to go too deep into it, but it resulted in the patches not being available for a little while. They're gonna be available.

• 2:23:50Speaker 01

  You know, you, you can't buy what's not available, so.

• 2:23:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, that's what they're telling me too. And I was like, dang, okay. All right. So you know, you learn something new every day. And uh, you know, speaking of which.

• 2:24:00Jocko Willink?

  Right on top of things.

• 2:24:02Speaker 02

  Trying to be, trying to be, trying to be. Anyway, smash the like button. Oh, my daughter keeps saying that to me.

• 2:24:09Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 2:24:10Speaker 02

  She, and she doesn't even know what that mean. I think she halfway knows what that means. She's like, smash the like button. I was like, bruh, the, the video that you're pretending to make doesn't even have a like button.

• 2:24:19Jocko Willink?

  No, no, but you need to just.

• 2:24:20Speaker 02

  I gotta cut it out. No, no, no, I gotta stop her from saying that. That's what I was gonna say. But if you're in the mood to smash the like button, if you want to subscribe to this podcast, you can. So do that if you want. On wherever you uh, listen to podcasts.

• 2:24:32Jocko Willink?

  And don't forget about the Warrior Kid Podcast, which there are now three new Warrior Kid Podcasts live at this time.

• 2:24:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. Good ones.

• 2:24:42Jocko Willink?

  Stories from Uncle Jake.

• 2:24:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:43Jocko Willink?

  Stories that teach lessons. An interview with. John Bozak, the Warrior Kid artist that drew Mikey and the Dragons, talking about how to get better at art. How to use art as a tool.

• 2:24:57Speaker 02

  Tool, yeah.

• 2:24:57Jocko Willink?

  Get better at other things.

• 2:24:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was good, man. That was good. That was like.

• 2:25:01Speaker 01

  Are you, do you do any art?

• 2:25:03Jocko Willink?

  Uh, I didn't draw in my books, no. But I mean, yeah, I can draw.

• 2:25:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. He sent me, uh, man, and I'm gonna post this online. Everybody can see.

• 2:25:12Speaker 01

  Oil paintings.

• 2:25:12Speaker 02

  Oh, for real?

• 2:25:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:14Speaker 02

  Have you been into that for like a long time or is that like a new situation?

• 2:25:18Speaker 01

  Uh, I did my first painting in two thousand, Easter of two thousand sixteen.

• 2:25:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, so kind of new. It's not like, oh, when I was three, I did my, you know.

• 2:25:28Speaker 01

  Definitely not.

• 2:25:29Speaker 02

  Jaco has the original logo, or I have the original logo of Echelon Front. It's Jaco's design. Actually designed some other stuff too.

• 2:25:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's on.

• 2:25:39Speaker 02

  So he drew it, right? But so.

• 2:25:41Jocko Willink?

  No, the disconnect was that I drew it, I didn't draw it with my hand. I drew it on the computer. Like I drew it on PowerPoint. Like it's so bad.

• 2:25:52Speaker 02

  Boy, it's so funny because when I first, when he first sent it to me, I'm like, I'd, of course you drew it on PowerPoint. You know, it's not like you have one of those pads and stuff. You're Jaco. You don't have that kind of stuff. So, but it's not as obvious when you get it. You just get the finished product and it literally looks like my daughter drew it with her left hand. She's right-handed, by the way. And, but the concept was legitimate. It was sound.

• 2:26:14Jocko Willink?

  The concept is what the Echelon Front logo is at this time.

• 2:26:17Speaker 02

  That's what you're pushing and man received, but the comedic part of it.

• 2:26:22Jocko Willink?

  I tried to explain it to you nine different times and you kept sending me back junk.

• 2:26:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:27Jocko Willink?

  And finally I said, okay, picture's worth a thousand words.

• 2:26:30Speaker 02

  Yes, sir, it is.

• 2:26:31Jocko Willink?

  I don't feel like explaining this a thousand times.

• 2:26:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:26:33Jocko Willink?

  Let's just send him a rudimentary sketch.

• 2:26:36Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:26:37Jocko Willink?

  Of the concept.

• 2:26:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:26:38Jocko Willink?

  Which you then chiseled out into.

• 2:26:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:26:41Jocko Willink?

  You know, glory.

• 2:26:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Emphasis on rudimentary, by the way, but the comedic part of it is how it looked. It looked like a child drew it. So now anytime like if you ask him, oh yeah, have you been into art? Boom, that flashes in my head. And he says, yes, boom, makes it more funny. I'm gonna post it online so we all can have a good laugh.

• 2:26:59Jocko Willink?

  check

• 2:27:00Speaker 02

  nonetheless yes warrior kid podcast is out um that interview with john bozak is very good like especially like cuz it is he talks about getting like frustrated with stuff and so that's little kids it was good

• 2:27:12Jocko Willink?

  don't forget about warrior kids soap from irish oaks ranch dot com that young aiden is making on his farm if you get soap you can stay clean

• 2:27:22Speaker 02

  sure of course also we have a youtube channel if you're interested in the video version and see when Mitch looks like hell yeah

• 2:27:32Speaker 01

  I'm handsome

• 2:27:33Speaker 02

  you might be the buffest guest we've ever had right

• 2:27:37Jocko Willink?

  I don't know

• 2:27:37Speaker 01

  buffest guess

• 2:27:38Speaker 02

  yeah like

• 2:27:39Speaker 01

  out of a hundred and eighty five

• 2:27:40Speaker 02

  yeah

• 2:27:40Jocko Willink?

  we've only had like probably ten or fifteen

• 2:27:43Speaker 02

  well Tim Kennedy

• 2:27:44Speaker 01

  don't get excited

• 2:27:44Jocko Willink?

  oh yeah yeah Tim Kennedy

• 2:27:46Speaker 01

  do you know how many fucking times people you and Tim Kennedy need to fight and I'm like

• 2:27:53Speaker 01

  have you seen Ken Tim Kennedy he's way bigger than me first of all

• 2:27:56Jocko Willink?

  he fights at eighty five

• 2:27:57Speaker 01

  I know

• 2:27:58Jocko Willink?

  yeah

• 2:27:58Speaker 02

  and what do you fight at

• 2:27:59Speaker 01

  seventy

• 2:28:00Speaker 02

  yeah

• 2:28:01Speaker 01

  one seventy I've fought I have fought at one eighty five as well I was a champion at one eighty five too um I've I walk around at close to two hundred

• 2:28:09Speaker 02

  yeah that yeah so yeah that was no Tim is like two fifteen to twenty

• 2:28:14Speaker 01

  he's a big dude I've I've I've met him and uh just in passing um I shook his hand one time but yeah he's he's a big dude and uh but I was always I always tell you like that's not we have like kinda like similar stories like there's it wouldn't make sense for us

• 2:28:30Speaker 02

  yeah I just wanna see

• 2:28:32Speaker 01

  yeah

• 2:28:32Speaker 02

  see what uh

• 2:28:33Jocko Willink?

  psychological warfare

• 2:28:36Jocko Willink?

  is an album

• 2:28:37Speaker 02

  with tracks wait wait no back to youtube we have a youtube channel I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna uh what I what I call explain the value of youtube

• 2:28:45Jocko Willink?

  you just did you can see what Mitch looks like

• 2:28:46Speaker 02

  that's just part of the value that's just like a big part

• 2:28:49Speaker 01

  I mean that I was gonna say like don't uh don't undersell that

• 2:28:52Speaker 02

  yeah yeah it's huge but you know we have some excerpts on there is what I was gonna say You know, if you don't want to watch the whole podcast, there's excerpts on there. Anyway, a lot of good, cool stuff.

• 2:29:01Jocko Willink?

  Some of them are enhanced by Echo.

• 2:29:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:03Jocko Willink?

  Who puts his artwork onto the video.

• 2:29:07Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 2:29:07Jocko Willink?

  And they might be slightly better than my original Echelon front logo.

• 2:29:12Speaker 02

  Maybe not. I don't know.

• 2:29:13Jocko Willink?

  Maybe a little bit better. Some of them are over enhanced.

• 2:29:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:29:16Jocko Willink?

  Some people think.

• 2:29:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:29:17Jocko Willink?

  Some people think they're under enhanced.

• 2:29:18Speaker 02

  Yes, I would agree with both.

• 2:29:20Jocko Willink?

  Regardless.

• 2:29:21Speaker 02

  Nonetheless, we have a YouTube channel. That's the point.

• 2:29:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and if you want to, you can smash.

• 2:29:26Speaker 02

  Smash the like button, sure. Comment, subscribe, whatever the three things they always say. Anyway, yeah, Psychological Warfare is an album with tracks. If you're running into moments of weakness, put in Psychological Warfare. It'll solve your problem. No weakness. Weakness, uh, overcome.

• 2:29:43Jocko Willink?

  If the, if you want the visual version of that, go to flipsidecanvas.com.

• 2:29:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:49Jocko Willink?

  My brother Dakota Meyer has a little company where he's making things that you hang on your wall.

• 2:29:57Speaker 02

  Artistic things.

• 2:29:58Jocko Willink?

  Some people call them artistic things.

• 2:29:59Speaker 02

  They get, yeah.

• 2:30:00Jocko Willink?

  And you can get those. If you want him to make a special one.

• 2:30:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:05Jocko Willink?

  Hit him up on Twitter. Do some custom. If it's like, if it seems to get some traction.

• 2:30:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:11Jocko Willink?

  He can put it out.

• 2:30:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's good. He's doing good stuff.

• 2:30:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:14Speaker 02

  On there. Yeah, I check him out from time to time.

• 2:30:17Jocko Willink?

  Flipsidecanvas.com.

• 2:30:18Speaker 02

  Dude, yeah. Also Onnit. So you go to Onnit.com slash Jaco. You can get a lot of good stuff on there, including kettlebells, other workout stuff. And bring my, I'm going to Hawaii, by the way. For one month.

• 2:30:29Jocko Willink?

  I know.

• 2:30:30Speaker 01

  People, people really don't, they, they undersell Hawaii, I feel like.

• 2:30:35Speaker 02

  I feel that the same way.

• 2:30:37Speaker 01

  When I went there for the first time, I was blown away.

• 2:30:39Speaker 02

  Where'd you go?

• 2:30:40Speaker 01

  Uh, Maui and, um, Oahu.

• 2:30:44Speaker 02

  I'm going to Kauai.

• 2:30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:45Speaker 02

  One month.

• 2:30:46Speaker 01

  I heard that's beautiful.

• 2:30:47Speaker 02

  Yes, sir. It is. So, I'm bringing the rings. Your request, by the way. That was one of the selling points of rings, is that you can bring them places too.

• 2:30:57Jocko Willink?

  That wasn't really my request. It was a statement.

• 2:30:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, statement, uh, recommendation.

• 2:31:01Jocko Willink?

  Recommendation, sure.

• 2:31:01Speaker 02

  Maybe reluctant recommendation. You sure did. It was a, it was a legitimate recommendation. Nonetheless, I'm taking it. I'm taking them to Hawaii. Anyway, point is, the rings I have are from Onnit. You can get those. You can get kettlebells. You can get, I have this, they have this mineral electrolyte, uh, like mix, right?

• 2:31:19Speaker 02

  And I think I might have just enhanced what I call the mega mix. It's the pre-workout mega mix. There's two. There's one for jiu-jitsu, one for lifting. The one for jiu-jitsu is one scoop of discipline, little bit of Gatorade. So it's a half Gatorade, half water mixed. Optional Gatorade. Some people, they don't like Gatorade. Some people.

• 2:31:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:36Speaker 02

  And that's cool.

• 2:31:37Jocko Willink?

  At all.

• 2:31:38Speaker 02

  You can put lemon juice in there if you want. Sure.

• 2:31:42Speaker 02

  Like I said, the discipline, the electrolytes from Onnit, and then, uh, I want to add your greens.

• 2:31:47Speaker 01

  I'll hook you up.

• 2:31:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, that'll be the mega, mega mix. That's pre-jiu-jitsu. Is there a certain time where you gotta take those greens?

• 2:31:54Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:31:54Speaker 02

  Just whenever, right?

• 2:31:55Speaker 01

  Take them all, all day.

• 2:31:57Speaker 02

  Boom. So that's gonna be the pre-jiu-jitsu. The pre-lifting is essentially the same thing, except you put like the caffeinated pre-workout in it. If you're into it.

• 2:32:06Speaker 02

  Anyway. Anyway, back to Onnit. That's where you get it. There's a lot of cool stuff on, on there.

• 2:32:10Speaker 01

  You're quite a large, a large human being yourself, man. Looking good.

• 2:32:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I don't sound big though. Thank you. I respect that.

• 2:32:17Speaker 01

  It's alright.

• 2:32:18Speaker 02

  Does my voice not match how I look?

• 2:32:21Speaker 01

  You know, I, I can't say because.

• 2:32:24Speaker 02

  Cause you saw me.

• 2:32:25Speaker 01

  I saw you and you started talking. So it's kind of ingrained.

• 2:32:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Alright, there you go.

• 2:32:31Speaker 01

  Maybe not though. Had, had you not spoke, I'd been like, damn.

• 2:32:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:35Speaker 01

  This dude's probably fucking got a jacked voice.

• 2:32:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Like Jocko or something.

• 2:32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:41Speaker 02

  But it's melodious. It's not jacked.

• 2:32:42Speaker 01

  That's alright. I have, I have a high pitched voice.

• 2:32:44Jocko Willink?

  Melodious?

• 2:32:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, very melodious, yes.

• 2:32:47Jocko Willink?

  Interesting.

• 2:32:48Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 2:32:48Jocko Willink?

  I got some books. Way of the Warrior Kid 3. It's out. It's called Where There's a Will.

• 2:32:55Jocko Willink?

  Teaching kids about how to go harder. That's a little lesson in this book.

• 2:32:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:00Jocko Willink?

  You gotta push harder and also teaching them about their ego and how their ego will get them in trouble. Everyone wishes they would have learned about ego earlier, because it makes your life better. Of course, there's Way of the Warrior Kid 1 and Way of the Warrior Kid 2, Mark's Mission. Those books are for kids to learn to get on the path.

• 2:33:20Jocko Willink?

  If they're a little bit younger than that, you can get a Mikey and the Dragons. They can learn about how to overcome their fear. There's actual pragmatic protocols that you can take as a human being to overcome what you're afraid of. Why not learn that when you're five years old? That's my question. Why not? Cause you didn't know about the book Mikey and the Dragons. Now you know about it. Your kids are just out there conquering fears, which is a positive thing.

• 2:33:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's a good one too, because you can like, you know, if you have a bedtime routine, you know, you read to your, you know, four or five year old before they can read. It's one where you can read it. Not only can you read the whole thing. If you want, cause it's like a fifteen, sixteen minute, you know? But they'll want to hear it again. So it's like, you know, so when you're real, while you're reading it over and over again, that lesson will be ingrained and instilled.

• 2:34:08Jocko Willink?

  Deeper and deeper.

• 2:34:09Speaker 02

  Rather than just one of the many books. Repetition. Exactly.

• 2:34:13Jocko Willink?

  Then we got the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. If you go, "Hey Jaco, can you post your workouts?" Yes, they're in the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. "Hey Jaco, what do you think you should do in a situation like this?" "Oh, it's in the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual." "Hey Jaco, what do you eat?" "It's in the manual." "What's your sleep routine?" "It's in the manual." "Do you take naps?" "It's in the manual." "It's all in there." So, the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, the guide to getting after it. If you want the audio version of that, it's on iTunes. And Amazon Music and all the MP3 things. And then of course, we got Extreme Ownership. And then I got a me of leadership written by me and my brother Leif Babin. Those are gonna help you

• 2:34:56Jocko Willink?

  become a better leader in your business, with your family, and in your life. Watch it happen. Of course, we have Echelon Front, which is my leadership consultancy. And what we do is solve problems through leadership. Because all the problems that you're having in your life right now, in an organization, are leadership problems. I don't care what they are. And if you want to solve those problems, you have to fix your leadership. And that's what we do. It's me, Leif Babin, JP Donnell, Dave Burke. Yes. Flynn Cochran, Mike Sorelli, Mike Byma, and Jason Gardner. Go to echelonfront.com for details. We also have EF online.

• 2:35:34Jocko Willink?

  Which is online leadership training, which is something that's hard to comprehend. How are you going to take leadership and teach people leadership from an online thing? An online training program? Well, you read about it, you take tests on it, and then you get put in scenarios, interactive scenarios on the computer where you have to make decisions. So that's EF Online.

• 2:36:02Jocko Willink?

  Then we have the muster, which is a leadership conference. It's a leadership event, something like that. Gathering. Gathering. Sure, it's all, it's all of the above. Well, it's actually the muster is what it is. Yeah, it's a muster. It is, but it's the muster. The muster, yes. So look, the muster, leadership, they've all sold out and they're all gonna sell out. The next one is September 19th and 20th in Denver. After that, December 4th and 5th in Sydney, Australia. Check out extremeownership.com for details if you want to come. Don't wait to register because then you won't be able to go and you'll be mad at me. And I, and you'll send me a, like, let's say you're my friend. Let's say you're someone I actually know. Sure, hypothetically.

• 2:36:44Jocko Willink?

  And, and, and we're doing a muster up in San Francisco. Yeah. And you send me a text that says, hey, sorry for letting you know late. Uh, you said you were gonna hook me up with some tickets. It's cool, I can make it and I'm bringing two friends. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, well, first of all, no, because it's literally sold out. It's not like, hey, it's sold out, but we can still let people in. That's not sold out. Yeah. It's sold out. Yeah. So don't wait. And then, of course, we have EF Overwatch where we take

• 2:37:12Jocko Willink?

  proven combat leaders from special operations, from combat aviation, and put them into companies in the civilian sector that need leadership. Leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield. Why not get battle-tested leaders to help out you inside your business? Go to EFOverwatch.com. And if you want to ask me a question, us a question, you want to give me an answer? Did I mess something up today? Probably. You want to let me know about that? Please bring it. Mitch, as he said, he is on Instagram. Mitch underscore Aguiar, A-G-U-I-A-R.

• 2:37:54Jocko Willink?

  And Echo and I are, well, we're on Twitter and Instagram. And on das Faisch Buchen.

• 2:38:02Jocko Willink?

  Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink Echo. Anything else?

• 2:38:09Speaker 02

  Nothing else. Thank you.

• 2:38:11Speaker 01

  Thank you guys for having me very much. I really appreciate the hospitality and opportunity.

• 2:38:16Speaker 02

  At home.

• 2:38:17Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. Well Mitch, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it and thanks for your work in the teams. And I'm sure you're gonna keep putting forth maximum effort to smash people in the cage. Look forward to seeing that. And to all the other vets out there and to those that are still in uniform, thank you for standing watch over freedom for our great nation and to our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and Border Patrol, Secret Service and all the first responders. I travel around the country and I run into you all the time and I see what you're doing out there, working, working hard. And the reason

• 2:39:02Jocko Willink?

  that we live safely here in our country is you. So, thank you for holding the line here at home. And everyone else out there, remember that you can't hit the pause button.

• 2:39:17Jocko Willink?

  And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all if you get knocked down or you get tripped up or you think that something isn't fair. It doesn't matter. You still don't get to stop.

• 2:39:30Jocko Willink?

  So, get back up.

• 2:39:33Jocko Willink?

  Bite down on your mouthpiece and go get after it.

• 2:39:38Jocko Willink?

  And until next time, this is Mitch, Aggyar and Echo and Jaco.

• 2:39:45Jocko Willink?

  Out.