146: Holistic Talent, Holistic Success, and What Game Are You Playing?

0:00:00 – Opening / Holistic Talent, Holistic Success, and What Game Are You Playing? 0:35:30 – UFC Striking VS Grappling. 1:01:18 – What can we learn? UFC 226 Post-Fight Antics. 1:31:11 – How to Stay on the Path. 2:04:37 – Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 146 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:09Jocko Willink?

  And I wanted to

• 0:12Jocko Willink?

  kind of delve into and slash explain some conversations that I've had lately.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 0:21Jocko Willink?

  With a couple of people and actually I think the numbers increased now because now I've had this conversation with a few people. And I'm, I am feeling like I need to kind of share this idea. With kind of with more people, I guess at this point.

• 0:38Jocko Willink?

  It's kind of a discussion that applies to everyone at some level.

• 0:44Jocko Willink?

  Sort of about what you are and about who you are and about where you've been and about where you're going. So that's a pretty broad topic. I think it suffice it to say.

• 0:58Jocko Willink?

  Now, in order to convey this properly, I'm going to try and set up some visuals in your head. You gotta kind of see this, right? Graphs, whatever, charts. All right. Diagrams and I'm going to try and keep them simple, but pretty straightforward. Um, here we go. We're going to grade things. We're going to grade things one to 10 because that's sort of the stand. Is that the standard?

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:26Jocko Willink?

  I mean, I guess you go A, B, C, D, F.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 1:29Jocko Willink?

  But we're not doing that.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31Jocko Willink?

  We're going one to 10, one being the worst, 10 being the best, one being the least, 10 being the most, that type of thing. Okay? So, so you have a chart pictured in your head. At the bottom of the chart is a one, that's the lowest, that's the worst. At the chop is 10, that's the highest, that's the most. Now, the first chart that we're going to talk about. It measures talent. Now, what's different about this chart is this is not just talking about a particular talent, this is talking about every possible type of talent that you as an individual human being have and it's consolidating that all those different types of talents into one giant score, one holistic score, 10 at the top or one at the bottom.

• 2:16Jocko Willink?

  So this is. This is everything that you are as a person, how smart you are. The only, the only thing is everything you are as a person that you are given naturally, right? So there's a baseline of how smart you are. So how intelligent you are. Now, we know you can work to get smarter, but we're just talking the baseline, how, how charismatic you are as a person, how well you read people's emotions, how athletic you are.

• 2:44Jocko Willink?

  And that grades, you can grade all different types of athleticism in there, what strength, because some people are naturally strong, some people are naturally flexible, some people have natural cardiovascular endurance, right? You get a certain level of that naturally. Of course, we know people can work hard, you can improve some of that. But we're just talking your natural talent, healthy.

• 3:04Jocko Willink?

  That's sort of a talent, sort of like some people are born healthier than others. No doubt about it. How good looking you are. You ever seen those little, like, I don't know if they're psychological experiments, but they put like the faces in front of the babies. And like the babies pick the, the, the one that looks nicer to them. It has to do with symmetry, symmetry and ratios and stuff like this. So, so that, that's a talent thing that you're getting. And naturally, your natural body composition, right? Some people are born a little bit with a little bit more fat on them. Some people are born with a little bit of muscle on them. Some people are born with the skin and bones, right? You get everything.

• 3:48Jocko Willink?

  Again, I know you can work on some of those, but we're talking about what you got out of the gate from your creator or nature or wherever you think you got it from. So at the top of that chart, I don't know, who's at the top of that chart? Maybe, I mean, there's people, there's, there's a bunch of people that would rank towards the top of that chart. So.

• 4:13Jocko Willink?

  Who's up there?

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, ultimately hard to tell because you know what, you didn't know what was given to him or what's working for. But you know, to look at him, you know.

• 4:21Jocko Willink?

  To just assess someone as a whole.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know, like the Rock type character, Dwayne Johnson.

• 4:27Jocko Willink?

  The Rock, he's charismatic, he's a good athlete, really good athlete, he's tall. He's, he's got a good acting skill, which again, did he work hard for these things? We better, we better give The Rock some credit or we're gonna hear from him, "I worked for all that." But hey, he's given some natural stuff, that's a very good one. Uh, Tom Brady, right?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:47Jocko Willink?

  He's smart, he's a good athlete, he's,

• 4:51Jocko Willink?

  you know, got some leadership skills, so he's got some, some, some natural gifts, again, does he work hard, we're not taking that away from him. But you're born with some stuff, GSP maybe, right? GSP, really good athlete, smart guy, you know, level-headed, you know, just, he's a very talented guy. So, there you go. You take that chart, you look at that chart, the one to 10, where's the, where's the, but where's The Rock? He's like a 9.6, he's up there.

• 5:22Jocko Willink?

  And then you ask yourself, where are you on that chart? Where are you on that chart? And I've asked quite a few people this.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  And we're still talking naturally?

• 5:30Jocko Willink?

  We're just talking what you got naturally. Where do you think most people, where would you rank yourself?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Naturally, I don't know, five?

• 5:38Jocko Willink?

  Oh, most people rank themselves, most people that I've asked have ranked themselves a little bit higher than that. They've ranked themselves 6.8, 7.2, in that, they're giving themselves a little bit above average. Right? You're going five, huh?

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Well, keep in mind, we just said The Rock, so I'm like, alright, you know.

• 5:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's true. Well, you know what we should have done is we should have said one to 100. So you could say The Rock is a 96.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  That'd still be a 50.

• 6:04Jocko Willink?

  Okay, cool.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Same kind of deal. Yeah.

• 6:07Jocko Willink?

  Alright, so you're giving yourself five. So, so that's, that's good. And I'm sure, you know, we could break that down about where you got the, because, because some people, this is important. Some people can be a 10 or a 9.8 for their intellect. But maybe they socially don't have good skills about reading. They weren't born with that little thing, right? So they can't read people well. So even though they're really smart, they're not, they're not making anything happen because they can't even communicate with people well. Or they're just, they're not healthy, right? They're bad athletes. Some people the opposite. Wicked good athlete, but they're just not that smart, right? And everything, so you could, you could be a nine athlete, but you're a,

• 6:50Jocko Willink?

  a very low whatever intellect and that's going to bring you down. Might even bring you down below average. So, so you got that chart. And that's it. Okay. So now we got that, the holistic talent chart. That's what we'll call it. We got the holistic talent chart on one side. Now, in your head, I want you to picture on the other side. The other side is another chart, also one to 10.

• 7:17Jocko Willink?

  One being the least, 10 being the most, and this chart is to grade

• 7:23Jocko Willink?

  success. Now, this is not easy to do because of course you can ask yourself, what is success, right? What is really being successful? And this is a good question. And I remember, I don't know if you remember this, I, when people started asking me a lot about my, how to raise your kids? And I said, well, I don't want to talk about how to raise kids because I don't know if I'm a success. I don't know if my kids are successful. I don't know if I should be giving that advice. Because what if my kids aren't successful? And, and then when you, when I started talking about that question, it's like, okay, what if my kid, if one of my kids goes and get a job at an investment bank and is making $450,000 a year as a 26-year-old? Is that successful? It could be, but what if that kid is miserable?

• 8:07Jocko Willink?

  What if that kid, you know, is, is doing cocaine, right? That's not successful. That's horrible. So it's very hard to, so that, that makes you start thinking about what is success. But I think we can generally know and understand what success broadly is when you look at these individual categories, right? So. Okay, good family, right? You've got a good, stable scenario going on with your family. If you're old enough to have a family, if you're not old enough to have a family, at least you are prepared to have a good family life. That type of thing. That's one level of success. A gratifying job. Meaning a job that, because you can, I know people that make a ton of money in their job and they hate it.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:50Jocko Willink?

  Right? So is that successful? Hmm, maybe not. I know people that love their job, but they don't make any money. And they're struggling paycheck to paycheck. Does that, is that success? Hmm, I don't know. Again, these are all things we could kind of weigh out.

• 9:07Jocko Willink?

  And then you've got health and wellness, because even though we talked about what you're given naturally, you gotta remember that you can work for something and you can, you can be successful and be healthy and be mobile and be not worried about getting out of breath when you walk up the stairs or whatever. So the overall health and wellness. And so again, you have to take all these different types of success, all of them. And wrap them up holistically and I don't know, could we throw, and this might be the wrong. You could possibly throw

• 9:45Jocko Willink?

  kind of a strange, you could possibly throw just the whole word happiness onto the situation, right? This, the, the general term happiness where I, but I think that's a scary thing to do because happiness isn't necessarily a good thing in terms of you meet someone that's had a few beverages. And even though their life's a disaster, man, they're having a good time at the bar, they're pretty happy. Is this our goal? Not really. That's why I think happiness is a, I don't know that I would throw it into this chart. I would call it success because it has a little bit more strength to it.

• 10:27Jocko Willink?

  Now, you got your two, you got your two, your two charts now. On the left, you have holistic talent. Is that what I called it?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Yes, holistic talent.

• 10:38Jocko Willink?

  Holistic talent on the left. On the right, you have holistic success.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Success, yeah.

• 10:46Jocko Willink?

  Now, here's the question. And I could ask you where you are on the success side.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:53Jocko Willink?

  Where are you?

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Seven.

• 10:59Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay. Good, good. So you were a five for talent and you're a seven for success. That's pretty, that's pretty legit. Let me ask you this. Is every person that is at the top of the talent chart, holistically with everything they've got, is every one of those people that scores a 9.8 at the top of the success chart?

• 11:22Speaker 01

  No.

• 11:23Jocko Willink?

  And the answer is no. The answer is no. Is every person that's on the bottom of the talent, holistic talent chart, on the bottom of the success chart?

• 11:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 11:36Jocko Willink?

  The answer is no. And what do we see? We see that there's a, well, when you put the space in between these two, there's talent, holistic talent, and there's holistic success. And there's a space in between. And that's what actually matters. That's what actually matters. What do you do? What do you do? The thing, and to me, and I hate to get,

• 12:06Jocko Willink?

  I hate to throw this out there. But for me, the thing that's in between, the left and the right, the thing that's in between talent and success is, is, can be summed up in one word. Discipline. Discipline. Do you have the discipline to do the work, to make the hard decisions, to put in the daily grind that's gonna get you from wherever you, you started out, with whatever level of talent you had, and move yourself up that chart on the right-hand side?

• 12:38Jocko Willink?

  I think it's important to recognize this. And this conversation, this particular conversation, the first time I had it was with a younger person. Who I could see in their eyes had the sense of like, I don't know if I have the talent. And it's like, well, you know, I don't know if you have the talent either. There's one way to find out.

• 13:03Jocko Willink?

  You do the hard work. You implement discipline on your life. And that will give you the opportunity to see how far up that success. One thing I can tell you is if you don't have the discipline and you don't do the work, you're not going to be above your, your holistic talent level at all. There's some people that make a run for it, man. You know what I mean? There's some people that have no talent or very limited talent, but they get after it. And they end up way off far on the success. And you know what I think is good about this? When you get some success, you kind of compound that back into your hard work and people start to get on an upward spiral, upward mobility towards the top of the success chart because they got a little foothold.

• 13:46Jocko Willink?

  Once they got that foothold, it felt good. Then they take another step. They get a little bit further. And then they get a little, a little bit more success, boom. And then they use that to propel themselves up a little higher. The problem is the reverse happens as well. That's the problem. People feel a little bit that they got beat at something. The, the, the bad luck came their way. Cause you know what? On this in between, there's some luck in, in between the discipline. There's absolutely some luck as well. There's some luck and you can get lucky. You can meet the right person at the right time. You can, you can make a move at the right time before anyone else did. You can, you can get discovered by someone or something. You know, there's, there's definitely some luck involved for sure. You can't count on the luck.

• 14:28Jocko Willink?

  The luck is not the reason. Some people like to look at someone else and say they're lucky. They didn't see the, the, the thousands and thousands of hours of hard work that person put in. They just saw the last little end result where they got lucky allegedly.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, the luck thing is is weird cuz if you kind of extrapolated out like someone who Okay, when I played football, we had to do these cool shirts. And they'd say something on the back or the front, I don't know, whatever. Oh, and it says chance favors, one of them said, chance favors the prepared man.

• 14:59Jocko Willink?

  True.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  So it's like same thing, right? Chance and luck, same thing. So you'll like, the more prepared you are, the more skills you have, the more whatever, the quote unquote lucky you're gonna get. But really, when you switch the word luck for chance, you just increase your chances of success.

• 15:16Jocko Willink?

  True.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  So like, um, you know, I don't know, who got discovered? You know, they're they're gonna be in a position to be discovered. You know, because whoever quote unquote discovered them, I'm sure many people have been in that situation too. You know, like, um, you know, you know, some guy goes on the news, right? With his baskets that he makes, you know, whatever. And boom, he blows up because those baskets are dope.

• 15:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  But plenty of people have been on the news with their thing, you know, for years, decades, centuries, maybe, well, maybe not centuries, but you know.

• 15:48Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  People have been going on the news with their thing for a long time.

• 15:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Same thing with American Idol. A lot of people have been on American Idol.

• 15:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  You see what I'm saying?

• 16:00Jocko Willink?

  How many people really made it?

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Right. You know, as far as getting discovered, whatever, it's like, oh, yeah, you got lucky, whatever. Yeah, man, but you're not gonna get lucky if you're if you're kind of whack, you know? Like, if you're you're not prepared, if you're you don't have the skill, you don't have the talent, you don't have the X, Y, Z that it takes. Then, yeah, so it's kind of like, yeah, the luck is sprinkled in there everywhere, by the way. You know, and and maybe they didn't get discovered on the news. But maybe they went to somewhere else and then got discovered, you know, a year, two years later or whatever, you know? So you just increase the probability of being discovered when you have the skill. So, yeah, luck, sure, it is part of it.

• 16:34Jocko Willink?

  It is, it is a thing, for sure.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  But, yeah.

• 16:37Jocko Willink?

  It can propel you a little bit faster sometimes.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's it's like one of those things where you talk like a foothold, right? There's a bunch of footholds everywhere. Just because someone latched on to one specific one that everyone's a point to and say he got lucky there. Well, he's so good or she's so good. Most of the time, most of the time, there's exceptions everywhere, obviously. But most of the time that person's so good, they would have got discovered somewhere else anyway. It's just a matter of, oh, this particular one made him get discovered and propelled him all quick or whatever.

• 17:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Well, this ties back into something that I've said before, and I'll say it again right now, is make your luck. You you gotta make your luck. And if you make it, if you keep

• 17:17Jocko Willink?

  if you keep putting forth the maximal effort, that luck's gonna come. You're gonna make your luck happen, you know? That, you know, that actually, when we, when we came, when Task Unit Bruiser came home from Iraq, there was, there was, you know, people were like, oh, you guys got super lucky on that deployment because we got a lot of action, right? And there was two like immediate thoughts behind that was number one, like, hey, you know, first of all, we lost our bros, like there are nothing lucky about that. Was the first immediate thought in my head was like, hey, man, like, because because the bottom line is SEALs want to go into combat. Bad. And that's just a broad statement. And so when we came home, had been in a lot of combat and killed a lot of bad guys.

• 18:02Jocko Willink?

  And people were kind of saying, hey, you guys got lucky. And and again, the first thought was, hey, man, if this is luck, I don't want it. The second thought was just like the same thing, like, oh, we got lucky. We didn't like crush ourselves in the workup and try and be the most, you know, prepared we could be and then get overseas and then form relationships with all the conventional forces and do good work for them and continue to, you know, just get go as hard as we could the whole time. No, that didn't have anything to do with it. It was just luck and it kind of fell into our lap. But, you know, of course, just nod your head and say, thanks, man. Appreciate it. Yeah, good times.

• 18:44Jocko Willink?

  So luck is definitely a part of it, a little part. Because were we, was I lucky to be in Ramadi? Because I could have deployed a year later and a year later Ramadi was pacified. So is there luck there? There absolutely is. So I don't want to sound arrogant, but. Luck is a part. It's like foot locks. It's like heel hooks.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 19:05Jocko Willink?

  They're a part of the game. They're not a game changer.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:09Jocko Willink?

  They're a part of the game. They're not a game changer. We, we had a group come in, this is

• 19:15Jocko Willink?

  back in the day, a group came in, a guys that were known for foot locking and heel hooking. And what they didn't, they thought we were jujitsu guys, normal jujitsu guys, but we weren't because we were Dean. Right. So we were foot locking, heel hooking all the time. And these guys came in and immediately they were going for, these are the kind of guys that would go, and I don't know if you, I don't know if you remember this time period in jujitsu. It was like immediate, they're going for a foot lock, like just diving for it.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:44Jocko Willink?

  But they didn't know that we did foot locks all the time and you weren't going to just grab a foot lock on

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:49Jocko Willink?

  Dean Lester or me. Like that, this wasn't going to happen. And it kind of, then all of a sudden, they didn't have the rest of jujitsu. Didn't have the rest of the game. So then it was not good for them. Because they only had this one dimensional game. And that's what taught me that foot locks are important. But they're not more important than a choke or a guard pass. They are definitely part of the game. You can't leave out. But they're not a game changer. And you see that now, now that you see everyone broadly getting good at, at the whole leg locking, foot locking, heel hooking game. Now you see it coming back around where you have to have the rest of jujitsu as well.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:26Jocko Willink?

  Like even, even as much as like a year ago. It was like, oh, this guy got this crazy heel hook and the guy tapped and you didn't know what was happening. That very rapidly changes into, okay, the guy went for a heel hook. The other guy got out. Now we gotta, where are we back to? We're back to the jujitsu.

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:40Jocko Willink?

  So same thing. Luck is a factor. It's not the factor.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:46Jocko Willink?

  All right. Now, that's number one. This is the number one thing I wanted to talk about today. If you're in that position where you're looking at your talent, and I guess this is, I guess it's applicable to people that are a little bit younger because people that are a little bit older. They probably figured this out already.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:03Jocko Willink?

  You probably looked at yourself in the mirror and said, hey, look, I I might not have that much talent, but I can I can I can get after it. You know, this is something they used to say about basketball too. And I don't I don't I know you want a basketball player. I played basketball growing up.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:14Jocko Willink?

  And when I was growing up, it was like the heyday of the Lakers and the Celtics rivalry and all this.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah.

• 21:21Jocko Willink?

  Well, the hard work, right? Just this like, hey, I'm gonna work harder than anyone else to make up for my lack of talent. And they would say about Larry Bird, you know who Larry Bird is?

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:32Jocko Willink?

  They would say, this is kind of garbage. They'd say Larry Bird wasn't athletic.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:38Jocko Willink?

  Which is total garbage. I mean, but people would say that. And maybe it's because he didn't have the the biggest vertical jump or whatever. And they'd say he was like slower than other players.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:51Jocko Willink?

  But he worked so hard that he was able to compensate for that. Now again. When I heard that when I was a kid, I kind of believed it. When you see Larry Bird now, when I watched, you know, games, he was he's a freaking awesome athlete. You know, and you're not playing in the NBA and being a world champion over and over again, MVP without being an awesome athlete.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  How tall was Larry Larry Bird?

• 22:10Jocko Willink?

  How old is he?

• 22:11Speaker 01

  How tall?

• 22:12Jocko Willink?

  He's oh, he's like six, eight.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, tall guy. I remember this guy named Spud Webb, who's like five something.

• 22:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, Spud Webb, for sure.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  You know, there is that. But yeah, man, I dig it. I remember this.

• 22:22Jocko Willink?

  Spud Webb probably had to work harder to make. What about there's a guy named, I think his name was Mugsy Bogues.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Mugsy Bogues.

• 22:28Jocko Willink?

  You remember Mugsy Bogues? He was now he was even smaller than Spud Webb.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 22:32Jocko Willink?

  But he was so small that people, it was a different little situation that the players had to deal with. He was so small and so fast. You know what's interesting? I got some friends in hockey. And as a matter of fact, the goals, you know, the goals.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  The goal.

• 22:46Jocko Willink?

  The San Diego Goals.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 22:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. So I went down and talked to the goals.

• 22:53Jocko Willink?

  And what's cool about, what's cool about that level of athletics, which is the minor leagues, the Gulls are a minor league team. What's cool about that level of athletics is those guys are hungry. They're, they're not prima donnas that are, you know,

• 23:11Jocko Willink?

  driving around in a chauffeured car and all that stuff. These guys are hungry and they're playing hard. And what's interesting is in hockey, and this is within the last few years. At one point, a few years ago, they were just getting the bigger and bigger and bigger hockey players. Just getting bigger guys because you're just, they're just monster guys that are six, six and six, five. And six, four, and they weigh a, you know, two sixty. And that was the way hockey was going. But then what happened was they started bringing out these guys that were smaller and faster.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:46Jocko Willink?

  And that could go maneuver quicker than the bigger guys. And all of a sudden hockey's going back in that direction of smaller, faster guys.

• 23:56Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 23:58Jocko Willink?

  It's interesting. And the amount of talent that that employs. Hey, figure it out. You can make something happen. Mugsy Bogues, Spud Webb. Make it happen. Regardless of height. But to my point, Larry Bird, when I was a kid, I would hear about Larry Bird not being a good athlete. And all you had to do was work hard. Which, which left an impression on me as a kid. Hey, look, Larry Bird's not that, he's not that great athlete, but he's gonna work hard. So that's what I'm gonna do. Work hard. Work harder.

• 24:34Jocko Willink?

  They say that about Dan Gable too. The wrestler. Hey, maybe not the fastest, but his thing was I'll, I'll outwork them all.

• 24:43Jocko Willink?

  You ever heard stories about him? Dan Gable?

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:45Jocko Willink?

  He would just run from every, every place he would go, he would run.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't hear that story.

• 24:50Jocko Willink?

  From class to class in college, from class to the cafeteria, he'd run everywhere. So, hard work. Now, okay, so that wraps up. We got talent on the one side, we got success on the other side, and that's cool. And we know that we can progress up that chart for the young people out there and even the old people out there. If you, if you're, if you're on the lower end of that chart of, of the talent chart, boom. Work hard, apply discipline, make good decisions, you can end up further. You can go to the top of that success chart.

• 25:23Jocko Willink?

  Boom. Now.

• 25:26Jocko Willink?

  Now, we're gonna get away, I guess we're gonna get away from the holistic success a little bit here, maybe not. Maybe, maybe not. This is a conversation that I've also had, and I had it primarily with two, two people that I know pretty well. One of them very well and one of them decently well.

• 25:44Jocko Willink?

  And this is the conversation, these two individuals, high talent. High in the talent chart. So what does that mean? They're smart, you know, they've got that personal interoperability with other human beings. On top of that, super driven, on top of that, they've got the whole work thing too. They got the discipline thing down too. They got all that.

• 26:08Jocko Willink?

  They're maxed out in the game that they're playing. So what do I mean by that?

• 26:18Jocko Willink?

  In soccer, how many goals can you score? Let's say you're the best team, you're the best player on your team and you're gonna play a season worth of soccer. How many goals can you score?

• 26:27Speaker 01

  In the whole season?

• 26:27Jocko Willink?

  In the whole season.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  I don't know, how many games is it?

• 26:30Jocko Willink?

  I don't know, let's call it, let's say you play 15 games.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  So you're gonna, I don't know, 45, maybe 60 goals?

• 26:40Jocko Willink?

  Okay, that's completely unrealistic, but we'll take it.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  15, so you say three goals?

• 26:45Jocko Willink?

  Three goals a game, 45, yeah, we'll go. This guy gets a hat trick, which is a rarity in soccer. We'll say he gets it for every game for a 15 games season, and that's where he ends up.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he ends up at 45 goals.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  I typically watch kids soccer, so my numbers might be off.

• 27:01Jocko Willink?

  A little bit. Okay, now what if you were a basketball player? How many basketball, how many games, how many goals can you make in basketball?

• 27:09Speaker 01

  In a game? You know, realistically, on the high end, 21 points?

• 27:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Then you multiply that times a season and you obviously can score way more in basketball than you can in soccer. Clearly. This is where, again, I've had this conversation primarily around the financial aspects of work for people. If you get in, you have to look at the game that you're playing. Cause sometimes the game that you're playing is soccer. And it doesn't matter how much talent you have and doesn't matter how much hard work you, you, you put into it. You can only score 45 goals and that's it.

• 27:52Jocko Willink?

  And meanwhile, someone that maybe doesn't even have the talent and doesn't have the work ethic that you had, but they're playing a different game. And they're scoring 200, 300, 400 goals. They're making two, three times as much money as you. Why? Because the game that they are playing.

• 28:12Jocko Willink?

  So you have to look at that. Every game, just about. Well, I'll say it. Every game that you can play has a cap on it of what you can actually make until you get to the top and you look at it and you change your angle. You change your, you change your angle of the game. You could say, I'm going to create a new game. You know, you could get really good at soccer and say, you know what? I've maxed this game out. I'm going to create a new game where it's a smaller field and a bigger goal. You know, you could do that. And people do that in industry, right? People do that in industry. They, they get to the top of their game and they start a new game, a different game. They change the rules a little bit where they can score more. I'm totally supportive of that. The problem is, I just want to make sure that people recognize

• 28:55Jocko Willink?

  that sometimes you've put in awesome, you've, you're a very talented person. You've put in a lot of work. And you got to the, you got to the, you capped out your game. You're going to get as many goals as you're going to get. That's it. And so you can't get frustrated. I'll tell you what. I was in the Navy. I was in the Navy. Everyone, I was in, I retired as an O4E over 20, which means, which means I was a prior enlisted guy. You can go look at what my salary was and then you can add my little specialty pays in for jump dive demo, special duty assignment pay. You can add those little things in there. You can add my be officer housing, basic allowance for housing in there.

• 29:38Jocko Willink?

  You can figure out, I mean, it's, you're going to make this much money. That's it. That's the cap. That's what you're going to make. Now, now we start to talk about can you play multiple games at the same time? And the answer to that is yes, you can. You can play multiple games. Now, I kind of, I kind of said this on a different podcast. Somebody talked about, you know, having a side hustle while you're in the military and I was like, well, no, you can't really do that because, you know, you've got to focus a hundred percent on your job. And then, but the reality is I had a side hustle the whole time I was in.

• 30:19Jocko Willink?

  Cause I, guess what I was doing? I was buying houses. I was saving my money. I was driving 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan. And I was buying a house here. I was buying a house there.

• 30:31Jocko Willink?

  And that's, when you have a, when you have a alternate job or an alternate game that you're going to play in the military, it's okay. It just has to be on a complete not to interfere basis. So it doesn't interfere occasionally if you're, if you've got a few properties and one of them has a broken water heater, you can mitigate that by making sure you've got a good property manager and making sure you know the right handyman that can go over and square that stuff away and get that problem solved. I had some catastrophic situations. I had the big flood.

• 31:01Jocko Willink?

  Sure, the big flood. No slab, like cracked pipe in the slab. I had a crack. One of my rentals has flooded twice.

• 31:11Jocko Willink?

  Once from the ceiling, once from the ground.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  How does it flood from the ceiling?

• 31:15Jocko Willink?

  From the ceiling, crack pipe.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Upstairs.

• 31:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, upstairs bathroom, crack pipe somewhere, boom, drip, drip, drip, next thing you know, you've got water damage.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:23Jocko Willink?

  The other one, pipes running through the slab, cause something goes wrong or whatever, and that thing starts to leak. Tenants don't say anything for a long period of time, even though they're hearing squish, squish, squish, under the, under the, the, the flooring.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:40Jocko Willink?

  They don't say anything, guess what, everything's ruined. You gotta come in, they, you know, so what do you do with those catastrophic situations? Well, if you've got the right management, uh, team in place, gets handled. Gets handled, make the phone calls, people get it taken care of, you don't have to worry about it. So you can do that, it's gotta be on a not to interfere basis with your primary job, if you're in the military. And really, it's the same thing if you have a primary, you know, you got your primary job, you're working for someone, you're doing nine to five. You don't wanna interfere, you want, you want your side alternative gig to be on a not to interfere basis with your primary gig.

• 32:22Jocko Willink?

  Now, the other thing that you can do, and this is where you start to look at, okay, because you, you, you, you're playing games. You're playing these different games because you want to move yourself up on the success level. Sometimes you have, and I see people do this, and some people do this really well, they have one game that they're playing to make money. They have another game that they're playing to be, you know, to, to win in their health, right? They're doing marathons, they're, they're jack and steel, they're, they're doing jujitsu. They've got another game that they're playing to get some sort of gratification out of life, some kind of positive gratification out of life. Whether they're working as a volunteer, whether they're donating time to the soup kit, whatever you're, they're doing.

• 33:04Jocko Willink?

  They're doing something that's giving them some gratification that they're moving the ball forward for humanity. And. That's, that's, that's a good thing in my opinion. So sometimes I think someone's, they're, they're, they're losing their soul. Cause they're working a job to make money. They don't like it. They're not healthy. And they're, and they feel like they're just giving all their time to the man.

• 33:32Jocko Willink?

  What should that person do in that situation? Find some other games that you can play too. Find some other games. Find a game to take care of your health. Find a game to take care of your family. I mean, you know, for, for family, right? How do you, what game can you play to take, make sure you get the family unity that you want? There's all kinds of things that you can do, right? Whether it's camping, whether it's vacations, whether it's going on, on rock climbing trips, whether it's everyone going to do jujitsu, whether it's you're doing a 15 minute PT in the morning. Whatever. But there's things, there's some games that you can play to, to get that side of things.

• 34:09Jocko Willink?

  So there's all kinds of these various, we'll call them games that get played. But what I find, this is the whole point of this conversation. What I find is people aren't aware that they're in a specific game. And that game has limitations and that game has rules. And if you don't recognize that, you're going to play that game and you're going to keep playing that game, soccer game, and you think you're going to get more goals. They're not coming. Cause you can't do it. That game is limited in its own right. So what you have to do is you have to either change the game or you gotta find a new game to get into. If you're young, look at what game you're going to play and figure out.

• 34:50Jocko Willink?

  What, you know, how you're going to win in multiple games so that you can move yourself up on the success.

• 34:59Jocko Willink?

  Holistic success chart.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 35:03Jocko Willink?

  So, there you go. That's the first thing I wanted to, to talk about today. Number one. The second thing I wanted to talk about.

• 35:15Jocko Willink?

  is Connor versus Khabib.

• 35:19Jocko Willink?

  Uh, okay, so Connor versus Khabib. And once again, this, I realized, I think the only other time we've talked about a fight in, in, in, on this podcast was another Connor fight. I think it might have been Connor versus Nate.

• 35:39Jocko Willink?

  So, why are we talking about this fight? Well, there's, there's two major reasons. Well, there's three major reasons, I guess now. One is, was it the biggest fight of all time in UFC? It possibly was. I don't know. What do you think?

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's hard to compare now because, yeah, yeah, I would say, no, I would say, yeah, because the fan base is probably bigger than it's ever been.

• 36:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Just overall.

• 36:03Jocko Willink?

  What about the hype behind this fight?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  No, I felt like, well, then again, I don't know. That could be my bubble.

• 36:10Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  I didn't hear as much about it. I heard a lot about it for sure. I didn't, but I didn't hear.

• 36:14Jocko Willink?

  Which one did you hear more about?

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Uh, John, John Jones, some of the John Jones fights I remember. Yeah. And then, um, also like some of the Brock Lesnar fights. I remember thinking like, dang, this is huge.

• 36:25Jocko Willink?

  Here's what I think. I don't know.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  No, no, Jose, sorry, Jose Aldo.

• 36:29Jocko Willink?

  Jose Aldo against Conor McGregor. That was a huge, that might, that might have been, that might have been bigger. Yeah. And they did more tour. They did the big press thing. Here's though, I, I think that people had a better handle on what could happen in the Jose Aldo fight. I think people didn't know what was gonna happen in this fight.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. What's funny is for me, I was wrong by the way, but it was the opposite. I thought, oh, Jose Aldo's gonna beat this guy up.

• 36:57Jocko Willink?

  Oh, really?

• 36:58Speaker 01

  And then, actually, this one, I, I thought Khabib was gonna win too.

• 37:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So that's, let's get to that then. All right. Um, I sent out a tweet. Which I normally, you know, don't, and so I sent out a tweet, here's the tweet, here's the tweet that I actually sent out. It was to the Notorious MMA, which is Conor. I said, stay outside the first three rounds. Don't over commit strikes, mostly jabs, get booed by the crowd, doesn't matter. Frustrate, frustrate Khabib, force bad shots, tire him out. In the fourth, start stepping up the striking, in the fifth, let it go and finish him. Good luck. John Kavanaugh, at John Kavanaugh, I tagged his coach.

• 37:41Jocko Willink?

  Because his coach, well, okay, now, people are going, okay, well, why are you rooting for Conor McGregor? And some people went like a little crazy, like, why are you, when he's a bad, sets a bad example for the sport and all that? So.

• 37:57Jocko Willink?

  Actually, the reason is because I've communicated with Coach Kavanaugh. A decent amount on Twitter and little DMs and all that and just, you know, he, he just has been kind of like a cool guy. And here he was going into coach, his fighter in the biggest fight of, of Conor's life. And, you know, just because we've had that little conversation, we've had conversations on Twitter a bunch, and I just threw that out there. Like, two hours before, I mean, we, I was watching the first fights when I threw that out there. And you know what the really funny thing is, John Kavanaugh texted back, or he, he tweeted back, copy. So he, he actually read it and responded, which is pretty crazy.

• 38:41Jocko Willink?

  So, so anyways, because I have had a little interaction with Coach John Kavanaugh. I felt like, you know, hey, I'll, I'll throw this out there. Also, you know, Hans. Sure. Hans is like boys with Conor, right? And Hans is my boy. So I was, you know, that, that. Association. There's association, you know, I'm gonna be like, hey, Hans is my boy, and he has been for a long time. And he's bros with Conor, and so I just, you know, like, again, so, so people are, why did you, why are you voting for this guy when? So there's that whole thing. Now, the, the, the other odd thing about this is, you have a striker versus a grappler. Who do I root for in a striker versus grappler? Grappler.

• 39:25Jocko Willink?

  I, I, I always root for the grappler. And I know that factually and statistically, the grappler has the advantage. Because grappling versus striking, the grappler wins most of the time. How can you go the distance with this argument? Sure, you can took it all the people that all the times that a striker is actually a good grappler. And then they don't use their grappling, but they use their grappling only to defend from being taken down. Chuck Liddell, and there's a bunch of, there's countless guys that you can now name that knocked people out and were known for their standup, but what they really were, their base was that they were a good wrestler and couldn't be taken down. So, but generally striker versus grappler.

• 40:09Jocko Willink?

  The striker, and this is what I talk about from a self-defense perspective, right? If a, if you're a good striker, then that means you can run away. And, and if you're a good grappler, once you get a hold of someone, you can defeat someone that has good striking. Here's the thing that people don't understand, in order for you to punch someone, you have to get close enough for them that where they can take you down. You have to get into their takedown range. The red zone. You have to get in the red zone. So, once you're in the red zone, you can get taken down. So, how do you defeat that as a, as a striker? How do you defeat a really good grappler?

• 40:49Jocko Willink?

  The way you do it is by doing what I just said. You stay on the outside. You, you touch person up, you don't over commit to strike because the harder, you know this. How many rounds have you done of MMA sparring? Countless. Okay, me too. So, when I would be going against a striker, the harder they throw at you, the easier it is to take them down all day long. And when I'm going against a wrestler that I don't want to get taken down against, like I used to do this to Dean, I'd just frustrate him, not commit to any punches, not throw any kicks at all, sit there and jab and run away for basically two or three rounds. And even Dean, who's a far superior wrestler to me, he would have a very, very hard time taking me down. Yeah. So, this is a legit strategy.

• 41:34Jocko Willink?

  The reason I know it's a legit strategy is because people have used it against Dean. When Dean was fighting MMA, people used that particular.

• 41:44Jocko Willink?

  Strategy against him and it worked. And so I know the strategy works. Guys that Dean was infinitely better on. On the ground. And yet he couldn't take him down and he was infinitely better at wrestling. Why couldn't he take him down? Cause they weren't playing that game. They weren't playing, they weren't even playing the MMA game. They were playing the, I'm gonna jab you and stay away.

• 42:06Jocko Willink?

  Now, a couple of things also. Connor's attitude, Connor's, what do you want to call it? His, his, the way he behaves, right? He's unsportsmanlike and he's a trash talker and all that. I, I get it. Number one, he's, he's trying to sell fights. Like, we, we, is he a very confident, perhaps an overconfident guy? Actually, maybe, but if you ever see his work ethic, it's freaking solid. He's always respectful after a loss. So when he loses, he's, he is respectful and he says, hey, good job. You got beat. You know, he doesn't, he's not. He's not a poor loser.

• 42:48Jocko Willink?

  Um, and he's a hard worker and do I wish that he would behave a little bit differently?

• 42:55Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 42:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's him.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:58Jocko Willink?

  It's another thing is.

• 43:02Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's him. You know what I mean? That's him and.

• 43:06Jocko Willink?

  You can't expect guys that are gonna do what he's gonna do for a living to behave the way that you want them to behave. It's the same thing with guys that are in the military, right? You can't expect a guy that's gonna go put his life on the line to be a, as, as Kipling says, a plaster saint, right? Doesn't happen. You got a guy that you want to go kill people and you want him to put his life at risk? Guess what? He's gonna get a little crazy sometimes and as a leader, as a, even as society, we have to look at those guys and go, okay. Look, we'll give you a little bit of room. We want you to stay in the box here. We don't want you to get out of control. And that happens all the time. Military guys get in trouble all the time. They get, they get outside the box, but you gotta give them a little bit of room. If you, if you didn't want that type of person.

• 43:49Jocko Willink?

  You would have no one in the, well, you would have a very few people in the military. Cause you take someone that's attitude is, you know, hey, I'm a, I'm a saint. Well, guess what? A saint doesn't want to go hunt people down and kill them. A saint doesn't want to get in the mud and blood, blood and guts and be in that situation. It's very similar with fighters. Now, are there fighters that? Do behave in a, in a, in an idealistic way? Sure, absolutely there are. Is that preferred? Sure, that's great to see. I will prefer it, I don't know, but it's great to see. I mean, probably, in my, I wanna, I don't know who my favorite fighter of all time is,

• 44:28Jocko Willink?

  but Fedor is definitely at the, you know, he's in the top three of just my favorite fighters. And one of my favorite things about Fedor is Fedor showed no emotions ever at any time. Win or lose, the same reaction. He mostly won, but he would just raise his hand. Like, he would barely even raise his hand.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd be like a half.

• 44:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it'd be like half, like, hey, I just destroyed this person and won $2 million here in Japan. And I'm taking the pride of, you know, Russia home with me. No big deal.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:58Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna go lift a kettlebell.

• 45:01Jocko Willink?

  Uh, Sakuraba. Sakuraba is the same way, very, and, and the thing that was funny about Sakuraba, again, he's one of my favorite fighters, is Sakuraba, the only thing that was, you could, you could hold against Sakuraba, sometimes he would like clown people almost.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:16Jocko Willink?

  And he was almost, had some of that professional wrestling stuff going on.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:20Jocko Willink?

  So anyways,

• 45:23Jocko Willink?

  Connor is Connor. Connor will mature, he'll get older, and that's fine. He backs it up, he puts it on the line, bro. He puts on, he doesn't avoid fights, I can say that. You know, he takes the hardest fights he can possibly find. When he, when he lost to Nate Diaz to say, I wanna fight him again, next.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:43Jocko Willink?

  You know, that's legit. So anyways, there was a couple people that were like, straight up, just hostile. Why are you supporting Connor? He's a bad sport, he's a represent, it's like, okay, I get it. So there's why. John Kavanaugh, great coach, my buddy Hans, friends with him.

• 46:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, now, for the actual game plan, the actual game plan.

• 46:10Jocko Willink?

  That I talked about. Number one, stay outside. Stay outside. You stay outside the range of that person. You get just where you can barely touch him with a jab and you get ready to sprawl. Now Connor actually did a good job. He sprawled a few times. He defended the takedown on several occasions. He did a good job on the bottom of, you know, Khabib does this thing that Dean does too, which is he ties up your legs with his legs, kind of like captures them. And when you can't pull your legs out when you're up against the cage, you cannot get up. Connor got his legs out over and over and over. That was impressive. That was impressive. So that's number one. You stay outside. It's really hard to take, you know, even even against someone that's a great wrestler.

• 46:52Jocko Willink?

  Me, and I'm not a great wrestler. I can, I can back up and stay away. It's, I'm really hard to take down. And so is anybody. If you, if your sole goal is to not get taken down, it's actually not that hard to not get taken down. Now, it changes when you, when you start committing to your punches. It changes when you start trying to knock someone out. It changes when you start getting into a wrestling match with people. Then it's easy to get taken down. You know, Taylor, right? I'll avoid a takedown on Taylor. As soon as we start mixing it up, guess what? Getting taken down. Yeah, getting taken down because I play his game. Can't play his game. Okay, next part, don't over commit. What happens when you throw strikes? Your weight goes forward. When your weight is forward, you, you can get taken down. That's all there is to it. So you don't want to

• 47:37Jocko Willink?

  throw big, heavy punches early because that's when the takedown is going to come. Mostly jabs, again, that's the lightest punch, you're furthest away. I, I wouldn't even throw kicks. Maybe a couple kicks, but I wouldn't throw him. He's fast. Connor's fast, so he might be able to get away with it. But I probably wouldn't even throw any kicks in the first round. Maybe start throwing some kicks in the second round. But kicks, again, kicks take time and a well timed shot will take you down on a, on a kick. Can you chop at the legs? Yeah, you can chop at the legs. That can have a big negative impact on the person you're fighting. Getting booed, right? Why did I say get booed? The reason I said get booed is because if you're doing this strategy right,

• 48:20Jocko Willink?

  people are mad at you. Because they think you're avoiding the fight. They think that you're not being aggressive and they're going to get mad. The crowd is going to hate you. And that's just what you got to deal with, right? When your crowd is frustrated and annoyed at you, guess what? So is your opponent. So now your opponent starts getting frustrated and taking bad shots.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Big time.

• 48:40Jocko Willink?

  And when that opponent is taking shots that are outside the zone, you basically have to be able to put your hands on someone for the most part in order to get a good shot and take them down. When you're outside that zone, it's you just there's a there's a there's a fraction of a second difference that it takes you to get to the shit to the grip on the person that you can you can stop it. You can stop it. You can't. You can't shoot from too far away. And when you get someone frustrated and you're touching them up with jabs and they're getting mad and they're hearing the boos of the crowd, they get frustrated, they start shooting from far away. When they start shooting from far away, you sprawl on them. You put your hands on the back of their heads, you stand back up, you walk away and you make them do it again. You make them do it again. You make them do it again. I said tire them out. And a lot of people were saying, oh,

• 49:24Jocko Willink?

  Connor's cardio is no good and that's not a good plan. You're an idiot, that type of thing.

• 49:30Jocko Willink?

  The reason I said that is because, first of all, wrestling is for the most part, wrestling is more tiring than striking. That being said, if someone's a if someone's a good wrestler and not a good striker, they're going to get more tired striking than they are wrestling. So you take you take Khabib out of his game. His game is wrestling. He's not getting tired wrestling. He's getting a little bit tired. However, when he shot four times in a round and you've defended all of them, it is absolutely easier to defend takedowns than it is to to to do takedowns. It's a lot easier. I mean, we do these drills all the time. In fact, the way that we run the drills, when you first, when you're the first monkey in the middle,

• 50:15Jocko Willink?

  you're the one that's doing the takedowns. When you're more tired, all you have to do is defend the takedowns. Why? Because it's easier to defend takedowns. You don't have to work as hard. All you have to do is counter what they're doing. So you take him and you tire him down and Connor Connor's not going to get tired while he's striking or he's going to get less tired while he's striking again could could Connor use an improvement in his cardio sure sure I've seen him fade we've all seen him fade that's a bad thing he needs to step that game up I'd love to look at his training and see where we could fill in those holes but the bottom line is he's gonna get more tired which he did when he's in a wrestling grappling scenario than he does when he's standing up throwing jabs he's he looks like he's in walking through the park when he's standing

• 50:59Jocko Willink?

  up so you do that you you that's what you do you stand up you tire him out and you don't over commit and let him run at you now some people say we use this Connor should just try and knock him out there's a problem with that idea of is that great is it great when it happens to Aldo sure you can't count on knockouts you can't count on him when you're throwing knockout punches guess what happens you're over committing when you're over committing it's easy to get taken down so there you go now what actually happened in the fight Connor pressed forward almost the whole time which which when you press forward it's easy for a grappler to time your move forward movement and shoot on you and take you down and and that's what happened like

• 51:43Jocko Willink?

  I said he escaped he escaped from the mount position a few times that was impressive he got did you see the Camira Yes well yeah the attempt Khabib Khabib had a Camira on him Yes Legit Camira and I was like oh this is over nope nope Connor got out I think Connor got out through brute just like strength so he got out of that he recovered recovered guard a few times he freed his legs from those weird half guard sort of leg control things that Dean does he freed his legs from those a bunch of times he survived fairly well on the bottom in the early rounds and that's all he needed to do if he would have

• 52:26Jocko Willink?

  done this game plan of staying away if he got taken down with one minute left because he starts throwing then you survive for a minute it's okay it's okay you survive for a minute that rounds over and then you get to try it again Again, the reason that I know this game plan works is because it's been used against my fighter, Dean, and you know, who did Amar Soulev, he's a, he's a, Dean talked about him, he's a Russian guy that ended up like mafia dude or something, hitman, but that's what he did, just stay away, the guy was a better striker, and don't over commit, and that's what happens. And you know, what's also weird is people even do this in jujitsu matches. Yeah. They do this in ADCC, where, hey, if I'm a great wrestler,

• 53:10Jocko Willink?

  and you're better at jujitsu than me, and I don't want to go to the ground with you, I just play the patty cake for a while, and then I, what I do is when there's one minute left, I do one takedown, I get two points, and then I cover up and hold, and I win the match. So, people do this, in jujitsu, they do this. Another thing that they do, that they do in jujitsu, and this is something that you have to work on as a jujitsu practitioner, let's say you and I are training,

• 53:35Jocko Willink?

  and you get the takedown on me, what do I do? Well, I engage with my guard, I start looking for, you know, grabbing your arm, I start looking for neck control, I immediately start doing jujitsu with you. If I want to really, I have, there's another, there's a whole nother game I can play with you, which is, you take me down, I immediately try and get back up. Yeah. That's a, that's a totally different game. Yes, it is. This fouls up, like, I used to not do this with Dean, I used to not do this with, I, I do with Andy now because I have to, because people are gonna do that. People are gonna do that, that, when you're in a competition, and someone takes you down,

• 54:18Jocko Willink?

  or you, yeah, you take someone down, if they're not comfortable, if they think you might be a little bit better than them on the ground, they're just gonna try and get back their feet, and that is a different game than... Just engaging in jujitsu.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, or if they don't like their, you know, guys, they don't like to play the bottom.

• 54:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  So if they get taken down, it's like stand back.

• 54:37Jocko Willink?

  They're just gonna get back up and that's, if you're not used to that, that is problematic for you on top. If you, if you allow that situation to happen.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's why it's good to train with, I think I said this before, good to train with MMA guys. Because that's a lot of the time the case, unless they're like straight up jujitsu background guys, but you know, you know, guys who just have essentially, uh, what do you call it, a freestyle.

• 55:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Kind of style to them, they, and in a sense, we do jujitsu, yeah, anytime I train with them, they don't like being on the bottom. So you get that training big time.

• 55:12Jocko Willink?

  Feet on the hips, they're pushing your head away and they're just trying to get back up. Again, the, the theme, or the reason that all I have all this stuff in my head, is because it's all about what game are you playing? What game are you playing? And, and again, Connor, that's one of the things that everyone loves about Connor, myself included, is he goes in there to fight. And yet, that instinct of going forward all the time against a guy that's a superior wrestler and grappler, which Khabib certainly is. And like I said, grappling broadly stated is superior to striking in a, in a one-on-one situation.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:53Jocko Willink?

  You look hesitant.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  No, I, I agree with that probably more than you do.

• 55:58Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay. Because, and there's obviously, and I just had someone hit me up on social media that was like, but what if, you know, what if you get punched, what if the striker can punch you when you're trying to take him down, it's like that case has gone through and through. Can a striker knock someone out? Yes, they absolutely can. They have a puncher's chance. Can you rely on that? Hell no, you can't. Hell no, you can't. What were you gonna say?

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it. I mean, yeah, most of the time, as far as how it has played out. Yeah, you yeah, you can knock the guy out. Oh, yeah, for sure. Your knees. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It can happen for sure. But yeah, you just do the you run the statistics. No, it's like way harder to plan a knockout on a on a for a grappler to plan a submission is way easier. Like you, but even in grappling tournaments, the guy will be like, hey, I'm gonna go. And I'm gonna get this guy in a rear naked choke. That's what I'm gonna do. And against another grappler, by the way. So yeah, it's way it's way easier to plan because it's way more methodical. It's like way way less like, what do you call like chaotic, you know, and don't get it wrong. Like strikers know how to control their environment. I dig it.

• 57:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  But just the nature of what it is, you know?

• 57:03Jocko Willink?

  There's no there's no doubt. And again, broadly speaking, because I am totally pro striking. And you have to be able to strike and your your Muay Thai and your boxing kills, the better they are, the better you are as a human being. And I don't know if, yeah, I mean, if you've ever trained, if anyone here doesn't believe in striking at all, go and train with somebody that's a really good, high level striker. And they will jack you up.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:30Jocko Willink?

  They will jack you up. You will be you will feel like a white belt in jujitsu on the mat.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:35Jocko Willink?

  The only difference is if it's if you if you flip a switch and you make it MMA and you can grab a hold of them. You can you can all of a sudden you can equalize it very quickly. That's why jujitsu came about. That's why it was not why it came about. That's why it came on to the scene so strong. It's because all the striking stuff, as awesome as it is, we just saw another example of it on Saturday night. That's what I'm talking about.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm not even saying.

• 58:01Jocko Willink?

  Connor is a far superior Connor is a phenomenal striker. Once he's on the ground, he's on the ground and those strikes don't mean anything anymore, barely.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, especially these guys with like super good grappling.

• 58:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  And, you know, they can keep going, you know, when you gas and this will go into kind of what your strategy was. If a grappler gases, he a grappler gases and that goes for anyone in a fight. If you gas out, you're you're essentially ineffective. But so kind of that aside, the the reason that Pete that it seems like, oh, yeah, all these guys like, uh, Leoto Maschita, right? He was a big one who kind of exploded onto the scene and just beat up everyone. And he was a karate guy, right? Black belt in jujitsu, by the way, but no one wants to talk about that part. Or even like a Chuck Liddell type character where he's just knocking, he's straight up knocking everybody out, grapplers and everything. Superior wrestler, by the way, but so it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, if you don't know any grappling, oh yeah, your chances of success, especially as time

• 58:56Speaker 01

  goes on, go way down. But, most people, if they're like primarily striking, or striking is their, kind of their success, you know, that's what gives them success. They have to learn even like a few fundamentals in grappling and get really good at them, just defensively to start with. But if you don't know anything, like if you know how to defend the takedown, that's grappling right there. Already, and if you get really good at that, then okay, that's gonna help you a lot. But that's grappling. Now, what if you essentially fail at defending the takedown? Meaning you get taken down, you have to learn to get back up. If you don't, you'll get held down there, straight up. If you don't, like take a big, strong guy, and just a normal sized person, one guy knows

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Jiu-Jitsu, put the big, strong guy on his back, like even in guard, bro, he won't get up. If the guy's like, hey, don't let him up, he won't get up, straight up. And the harder he tries, the less ability he's gonna have to get up. It's like throwing somebody in the water who can't swim. And like, he can't even tread water, let alone swim, he can't tread, try as hard as you can, the harder you try, the more, it's just gonna not work. But, you teach someone to just tread water, oh, he'll handle, he'll handle a little bit, but oh, you just learned how to tread water though. You learned how to swim a little bit. So you gotta learn that stuff.

• 1:00:09Jocko Willink?

  And what's nice, well, you need to take this into account, is that the UFC rounds are only five minutes. So they're only five minutes, which means, you could see it took, it took time for, Connor's good enough, that he's not getting like just caught, you made a quick mistake and get caught. No, he's making a series of mistakes that take time, and then finally they get capitalized on. If he can make it three minutes on the feet, every round, man, the chances of him getting submitted in two minutes by Khabib, especially when he was doing good maneuvers on the bottom, they're not really that good. And, you know, can you make a mistake and get guillotined? That normally happens to the grappler, that's like grappler versus grappler, I shoot on

• 1:00:53Jocko Willink?

  you, you grab the guillotine, or I try and post and you do an armlock, that usually happens, not from, most of those moves come out of me, me engaging in grappling with you, not me getting away from you. Me getting away from you exposes less of grappling submissions. Unless you do poor mistakes, like turn your back, then you got a problem. You're gonna have a problem. And I suppose we should also talk about the uh the after situation after the fight.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:01:26Jocko Willink?

  And uh you know, Khabib, who's normally very stoic and calm. He lost it. He ran out in the crowd. Connor uh and I was watching in detail some of these little clips. And Connor was getting nuts too. Let's let's not make any mistakes about it cuz yeah, so and then the guy came in from Connor's from Khabib's team and sucker punched Connor. That was gnarly. And so what do I think of all that? Yeah, it's horrible. Is it bad for the sport? Yes, it's bad for the sport. Um. Interestingly, Joe Rogan posted that Brendan Schaub kind of made a prediction.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  The prediction.

• 1:02:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he made a prediction that something was gonna get crazy.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:13Jocko Willink?

  And that's a that was accurate. Uh what do I think about it?

• 1:02:19Jocko Willink?

  I think it's a bummer. Yeah, it's it's a bummer. It's a bummer to see. I'm so I was surprised to see Khabib get crazy like that. Um, the fight was over. You could see that Connor was pretty humble in defeat. He was sitting there like, hey, all right. Uh, that's a bummer. And Khabib got nuts for those moments. And I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know what's gonna happen in terms of I know they didn't they I don't think they paid him yet. They didn't pay him his $2 million purse.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wouldn't that be an athletic commission thing though?

• 1:02:52Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah. It was definitely the athletic. Yeah, they'll they'll find him. They'll take part of his purse. And that's just money. That's like, you know, when you pay a speeding ticket?

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:01Jocko Willink?

  And the state gets the money?

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:02Jocko Willink?

  It's the same thing. So they the Nevada State Athletic Commission could find him half his purse and put 1.5 or no, he he made $2 million purse. He could put a mil- they he could put the Nevada State Athletic Commission could put a million dollars in their pocket. By saying, oh, yep, you shouldn't have done that. We're finding you. We're finding you half your purse. Boom, here's a million dollars. Let's build a new office center.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  Office center. Dig it.

• 1:03:27Jocko Willink?

  So I don't know what's gonna happen. It's not good to see that. I wish everyone would be better sports. Uh, that would be good.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Jocko Willink?

  But people are super emotional and they haven't learned to control their emotions yet.

• 1:03:44Jocko Willink?

  Which brings me to the third point that I wanted to talk about this week.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:03:48Jocko Willink?

  What are you gonna say something?

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  No, no, I dig it. But the, there is like a bigger kind of picture here with the industry. So, anything that's quote-unquote "bad" for the sport, right? That's, that, that is something, but there's two elements, right? There's, there's the growth of the sport, and then there's like promotion of the sport for the people who are in this, who are in the game.

• 1:04:08Jocko Willink?

  Are we about to get a bad press as good press? Any press is good press?

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Rather as a dichotomy. So, yeah, the growth of the sport to the guy who doesn't watch MMA because it's so barbaric. We're watching, okay, what, the Pettis fight, right? Same, same event. Pettis and Ferguson.

• 1:04:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. By the way, I like Ferguson. That dude's a hard worker. I like Pettis too.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:28Jocko Willink?

  And, and I, and I definitely like Duke Rufus.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:31Jocko Willink?

  My, my boy, my boy, there was, you know, we would be cornering people backstage and Duke Rufus was always, I mean, he is, probably doesn't know anything, this probably wouldn't even barely know who I am at all.

• 1:04:43Jocko Willink?

  But he would always be like, super cool. Duke Rufus, he's awesome.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that fight.

• 1:04:48Jocko Willink?

  And Pettis, and Pettis is a good dude too, you know? I like Pettis.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, really seems like it. Um, but that was a bloody fight.

• 1:04:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it was.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  So, and there's bloody fights every once in a while, right? Guys with the huge gashes, whatnot. So, okay, bloody fight, right? And so me, my brother, my cousin, we were watching this fight. And, uh, so these guys are just basically punching each other in the face, beating each other in the face, bleeding like all over, you know, like super bloody. The kind where they gotta stop the fight and be like, "Hey, doctor, check this guy out." That, you know, so it gives you an indication.

• 1:05:19Jocko Willink?

  Oh, hey, timeout while we just clean up blood off everyone. Let's, they take about a minute here just to wipe blood off everyone.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And meanwhile, we're just watching like, oh, whatever. Like, actually, it's like, there have been more eventful fights than this one.

• 1:05:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  Like, it ended in a, you know, he broke his hand or whatever, and it was, and that was considered uneventful. I broke his hand.

• 1:05:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I can't believe it stopped.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, they stopped the fight, and that was uneventful. We consider that uneventful. An eventful fight is a guy who gets knocked out unconscious, flat out, which, with, which happened, by the way. A few fights earlier. Anyway.

• 1:05:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  So, we're watching this. Blood everywhere. Meanwhile, we're like, okay, you know, like, whatever. But so that my point is the growth of the sport. You get a guy who doesn't watch MMA, they only watch, you know, basketball, football, the traditional sports. And they get a glimpse into MMA and they see that, all the blood and stuff. They're like, this is a dumb sport. This is not even a sport. This is like, this shouldn't be legal. This is like two human beings and everyone cheering. Meanwhile, okay, so when the fight stops, that that Pedis Ferguson fight, it stops, right? They stop it. They, you know how they cut to the crowd every once in a while, just see their reaction? There's like businessmen in their suits, drinking their drinks. It's like the epitome of like Gladiator, old school. The king with all the grapes and the stuff and high fiving and stuff, right? Meanwhile, these two guys are like, one guy has a broken hand, the other guy has blood all, well, they both have blood all over, right?

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  So a- as an outsider looking in, you're like, the, it's reasonable to expect them to be like, this is, this is dumb. This is not a sport. I'm not gonna sign on to this at all. Okay. Then you get these post-fight shenanigans, Khabib and guys jumping out of the ring into the crowd, continuing to fight. After he won, by the way. So that, and I'm not saying that this is how I'm looking at it. I'm saying this is how an outsider will see it.

• 1:06:58Jocko Willink?

  Interesting.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  And then you see, you know, months ago, whatever, Connor flying into New York and busting up the bus with Khabib in it. And it's this thing and, you know, all this stuff, guys getting injured from the broken glass, all this stuff, right? It's a, it's a, it's not cool from an outsider looking in. It's like, this is not a sport. This is dumb. These guys aren't people. These aren't civilized people, all this stuff. But from the inside, well, man, I'm really looking forward to this fight now. After Connor did that, then, you know, then, uh, you know, things happen. Connor's talking all this trash. It's like, oh, and he's backing it up. Oh, my gosh, I wanna see this even more now. If you get, and I like Fedor too, that's Fedor, I like him too. What if everyone was like Fedor though? There will be a lot of fights that you just don't care about. You'd be like, hey, all right, cool. Or, but on the flip side.

• 1:07:43Jocko Willink?

  So you're saying, cause I would, I would care about all of them.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  You would not care about, you care about him less, less, I think. You, I don't know. I don't know what you care about sometimes, but the people, cause the reason Fedor is Fedor, to the extent that Fedor is Fedor, is because other people are not like Fedor.

• 1:07:59Jocko Willink?

  We get to compare him to everyone else, like it's all crazy and he just sits there and looks at him and then knocks him out, or chokes him out, or armlocks.

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  Cause when you think about it, isn't that really the martial arts spirit?

• 1:08:08Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Just super stoic, and that's how it has been.

• 1:08:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  But now, hey, martial arts, let's face it, when you're in the game, if you watch MMA, especially UFC, if you watch this, this is, it goes like, the martial arts spirit of the thing is very small, very small. This is a show. Don't get it wrong, this is a show with real punches, real kicks, blood, all that stuff, and this is all part of the show.

• 1:08:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I definitely think of it more as a sport than I do think of it as a display of martial arts for the community. Now, I'm not thinking of it that way anymore.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  It's a sport, but I would even go beyond sport, it's a show, straight up, because if it was just a sport.

• 1:08:45Jocko Willink?

  You know what they did for the first time? I don't know if you noticed this, you probably did, they had like fog on the, on the octagon floor.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:54Jocko Willink?

  I was like.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Only for kind of the dry ice effect.

• 1:08:57Jocko Willink?

  Dry ice effect, right? Really? Like, what do you think? I give that the Negatron.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, well.

• 1:09:02Jocko Willink?

  And there was a while where UFC was trying to lean towards the other direction, they took away all the show stuff, they made it look like, more like a sport.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:10Jocko Willink?

  And now they're kind of going back a little bit to.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, it's in.

• 1:09:14Jocko Willink?

  Cause the new owners took over.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, and you know, that was obviously like a quote unquote branding play, you know, we want to kind of go mainstream with the sport edge of it and you know, make it a kind of a wholesome, here's the thing, Brad, it's not a wholesome thing. Like, it's totally, there's a difference between scoring a ball in a basket, or running across the end zone, or the goal line for touchdown and all this stuff, outrunning guys trying to just basically tackle you to the ground. And there's a difference between that being the goal, and the goal being to hurt the guy as bad as he possibly can, or to incapacitate them as bad as he possibly can.

• 1:09:44Jocko Willink?

  You know something I said on, when I was on Joe Rogan's podcast, is I was like, if you go watch any of those other sports, when they escalate, they escalate to what you actually want to see, which is MMA. Like what happens when a basketball game gets a little too rough? They fight each other. What happens when hockey gets a little bit, they fight each other. What happens when football gets a little bit too rough? They fight, even baseball. Someone, someone does something out of line in baseball, they fight each other.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:10:09Jocko Willink?

  Let's just get rid of the ball, get rid of the net. Get rid of the hockey stick and just put some gloves on and get it on.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that, yeah, that's why, and that, I mean, obviously, that's a whole, a whole nother thing, but if you, and I'm not saying there's necessarily a confusion between it, like us, the sport and the show and the martial arts and all that, but I'm just saying there, there are three different elements in the main part of the show.

• 1:10:32Jocko Willink?

  You just gave me a whole, like, interesting idea. So sometimes, for me, I'm so functional, like, I, I operate in such a functional mindset that it doesn't even work, right? It just doesn't work. It doesn't work with normal people. Right, like, I, like, hey, just, like, no, this is just gonna be, uh, which is gonna be plain. If I was, if I was in charge of the entire UFC, what would it look like? And it would probably just be so functional. It'd be the extreme that you would, that you're saying, people would just be like, I don't really know if I wanna watch this. However, I would say, if you dug deep into the training methodologies and you really understood the people, which UFC does a decent job now with, uh, what's it called?

• 1:11:17Jocko Willink?

  When they're leading up to the fight, they do the embedded, embedded.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:21Jocko Willink?

  So you could watch the embedded, you get to see, kinda, it's, it's not highly edited, embedded, and you get to see, but I would, you know, for me, I would make the whole thing would be like, functional. It'd be like, oh, there'd be lights that show you everyone, there'd be colored lights, why'd you need colored lights? You know what I mean?

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  You'd get everybody fired up, man?

• 1:11:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, we wouldn't do that. You're gonna wanna get fired up, you see the guy walking into the cage, that's about to, that's about to fight another human being.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  Well, it doesn't work that way, though.

• 1:11:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know, I know.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  Like, the, even if, it like, again, go back to everyone being stoic, right? It'd be, like, it'd be reduced, it would be less of a show. And in fact, you might even argue that it's kinda has, We've seen that before, like in just like other, like you ever watch like, uh, like a karate tournament or something like that?

• 1:12:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  It's like they don't develop characters or nothing like that. They're just, this is guy, and hey, this guy's good. And so like, cool. I wanna see what he's good at. And then you sort of forget about it. You don't anticipate that unless you're way, way in the game.

• 1:12:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  But, yeah.

• 1:12:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, my, my personal, uh, vision doesn't always line up well with like the drama creation that everyone else likes.

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's, that's literally life. That's like, why? That's why you wanna watch it. Because of, or a big part of it is because of the drama. Chael Sonnen, wise man, right? Said one time, once one fight ends, that's when the promotion for the next fight begins. So that, you know, when he gets on the mic after the fight is done, he's essentially promoting the next fight. And, but, and the thing is, it's, it's totally proven. Like, even like someone saying, why do you care? Why, like, people coming to you saying, why are you supporting Connor? He's such a bad role model, all that. That's all good stuff. Like, well, if, if they, if they were like, oh, who's that guy? Connor? Well, you support this guy? Let me look into this guy. That's a failure. But yeah, to, to love him, hate him. The thing is, if I dislike a guy, and there's guys that I dislike, I understand.

• 1:13:20Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  I don't dislike them as people. I dislike, dislike what we call the UFC character.

• 1:13:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  You know, like the guy that, that's on the mic and doing the whatever. I'm just not a fan. Actually, I'm the anti-fan. I want him to lose. Like, if he's fighting a guy, unless I don't know the other guy.

• 1:13:32Jocko Willink?

  You know what's interesting? You know what I think kind of changed my perspective a little bit? Is I, like Tito Ortiz, he had this, he has a horrible, his reputation was always like, he was a jerk and all this stuff. Yeah, he was a heel.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, heel.

• 1:13:45Jocko Willink?

  And, and I, I didn't know him well, but I mean, I trained with him some and, you know, Dean, Dean, Dean trained with him a lot, so I kind of knew him by proxy. And Tito Ortiz, as a dude, as like a, just a dude outside of that whole world, totally cool and totally good to go. You know, totally cool. Hey, Bizbing's the same way. Like, Bizbing kind of a heel. I've met Bizbing, I trained with Bizbing. Bizbing's a totally good dude, you know, trains hard, hard work, great work ethic. Good dude. And I'm not saying, again, I don't wanna make it sound like I know these guys and I'm all bros with them, cause I'm not. But I've trained with them, I've been on the mat with them, you know, like I know. I I I can understand their character outside of the character that they play on TV.

• 1:14:24Jocko Willink?

  And the character that they have, and maybe that's why for me, when I look at Connor and I see all this stuff. I look at it and I think, yeah, you know what, behind that, it's gonna be another guy that's a hard worker. That wants to win and take care of his family like, okay, and he's got, he's doing some stuff and he's talking about red panties and you know. He just, that's what he's doing, cuz and I look at it the same way I see a guy like Bizbing, a guy like T Ortiz. Who are behind that, that front that they put up. They're just, they're just hardworking guys that like to fight.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I don't see Connor as a bad guy, as the heel though. Connor's a good guy. He's like. He's anti-opponent, like he'll, he'll really kinda, he'll talk bad about his opponent, not necessarily bad. Like, like necessarily bad. But you know, he'll talk himself up over his opponent kinda thing, but he's not like, like Bizbing will actively, just like Chael Sonnen, just like Tito Ortiz. They'll actively play the bad guy, just a little bit, but to the point where they will be categorized as that.

• 1:15:25Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  People will be fans of.

• 1:15:27Jocko Willink?

  Think about the stuff that Chael Sonnen said, was saying about Anderson Silva.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, you just, yeah.

• 1:15:33Jocko Willink?

  That was crazy.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  And Chael Sonnen's a good example, but even though Chael Sonnen, you can tell, Brad, that guy's nice. Like, you ever talked to, I did stuff with Chael Sonnen, video wise, right? And like full on accommodating, like, overly polite person in ways that he doesn't have to do that. You don't have to do this polite stuff. So he's a, he's one of those guys, but I could tell like, okay, this is the show and I get it. And actually, I dig it. Um, like Bizbing, I was genuinely surprised how nice he was. I did a video with Bizbing. If you wanna look at, very funny video too, by the way.

• 1:16:03Jocko Willink?

  Which one did you do with Bizbing?

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  It's Hinato Laranja Show. I forget what episode, but we did a reenactment of Snatch.

• 1:16:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  He was, he played, uh, the main guy Turkish.

• 1:16:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  So Snatch, the movie, right?

• 1:16:16Jocko Willink?

  What did you, but you didn't call it, you didn't call it Snatch, what'd you call it?

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Snatchy.

• 1:16:19Jocko Willink?

  Snatchy, that's right.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's good. He does a really good job. So it's, it's Michael, this being Kit Dale. Is Tommy and then Hinato is.

• 1:16:29Jocko Willink?

  Let me ask you this, Kenny Florian.

• 1:16:32Speaker 01

  Kenny Florian.

• 1:16:32Jocko Willink?

  When you did the heat, heat.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Heat, yeah.

• 1:16:35Jocko Willink?

  That, that, he's got some chops, some straight up acting chops.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:16:39Jocko Willink?

  Kenny Florian, shout out.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:16:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, straight up acting chops.

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  So Kenny Florian, not to go too deep into that, but okay, so on top of that, Kenny Florian is super nice too.

• 1:16:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  And nice, where he got tested with, with us, with me, um, on how nice he could be as far as tolerance. So we go up there, right?

• 1:16:57Jocko Willink?

  Oh, this one you had to reshoot the whole thing?

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  Had to reshoot the whole thing. Two cameras, right, we get and so, you know, one angle on him, one angle on Hinato. The angle on him, the camera just didn't work. Something with the S D card or whatever this and we totally had to like, get access to the restaurant after hours and like all this stuff. Schedule with Kenny not to mention, who is like, you know, this is like after he crossed over into straight up mainstream. You can't just get Kenny Florian off, you know, he had shows and like he was kind of a high level guy at this time. And I get home, like we're, you know, we're editing and I'm like, we gotta, there's no choice. We gotta reshoot this thing. And then, oh, we're like, man, and Kenny Florian, yeah, like whatever. He's like, yeah, cool. Let's go, go like re-shave, he had a goatee and stuff.

• 1:17:41Jocko Willink?

  When Dean and I were doing the trials for A D C C in two thousand two for the two thousand three A D C C, Ken Flo came out and he was one of the competitors and the same thing, like we didn't really know him that well, but you know, we were all kind of like, a black belt, she's in all that stuff. So actually I wasn't a black belt at that time. I was a brown belt. But we, you know, everyone was just like super cool, you know? The Dean was a brown belt. What am I talking about? I was a purple belt. Damn.

• 1:18:11Jocko Willink?

  All right, so.

• 1:18:13Jocko Willink?

  Where this whole thing goes from, and this is interesting that you brought this up. There's the other thing I wanted to talk about, which is this idea of detachment, which I talk about all the time. And I've seen like another little reveal on detachment, maybe another angle. Okay, so picture this, black belt versus a white belt. You're training jujitsu. The white belt is like grabbing your sleeve. Or grabbing your belt, or grabbing, like doing something. Whatever he's doing doesn't matter. And it will not affect the outcome at all.

• 1:18:58Jocko Willink?

  And I see, and so what should you use as a black belt? As a, as a better grappler, what are you gonna do when someone's doing something that doesn't matter? What do you do? You just kind of ignore it. It's like, okay, that's not gonna affect the outcome. I'm not gonna worry about it. As leaders, I see people getting caught up all the times in little things that will not affect the outcome unless they let it. So I see some white belt blow them in the chain of commands, going all crazy, grabbing their sleeve. And this leader on the top like gets concerned about it and puts time and effort into something that doesn't matter, whether it's a little personality rub, a little ego uprising. It's like, should we do it this way or should we do it that way?

• 1:19:41Jocko Willink?

  Doesn't matter. That's a little sleeve grab. It doesn't matter. And I see people getting caught up on things that don't matter all the time. And what I've realized is it's something that I figured out a long time ago. I don't know when, but a long time ago, I figured out, you know what? That thing doesn't matter. I'm not gonna worry about it. That thing doesn't matter. I'm not gonna worry about it. That thing doesn't matter. I'm not gonna worry about it. That thing matters. I'm gonna focus on that thing. And that makes.

• 1:20:14Jocko Willink?

  That makes a big, a big, big, big difference. It's, it's leadership capital. Cause if I'm investing my leadership capital in getting your hand off my sleeve, or trying to do it my way instead of your way, or trying to keep your ego in check. If that's what I'm investing my leadership capitalists, I have nothing left to invest in the thing that's actually matters. Just like if you're a black belt and someone guys grabbing your sleeve and you focus on pulling that hand off your whole time, you're gonna waste energy. And maybe you even give up position because you're, because you were focused on something that did not matter. So it is important to realize and to learn to differentiate between things that don't matter and things that do matter.

• 1:20:53Jocko Willink?

  And in order to tell the difference between those two things, you have to be able to detach

• 1:21:00Jocko Willink?

  and step back. And obviously this is the same thing, not just with jujitsu, not just with leadership, not just with combat. Cause it's the same thing in combat, you're gonna have things that don't, things that are happening on the battlefield that don't matter. Little, hey, guys moving here instead of there, that doesn't matter. Oh, this guy's moving there, so it doesn't matter. The enemy's doing this, okay, doesn't matter. Oh, wait, the enemy did that thing, that matters. Or one of my guys did this thing, that matters. So how do you learn to discriminate between the two?

• 1:21:30Jocko Willink?

  You have to be able to detach from it. That's what you have to do. You have to be able to detach. And if you, if you don't learn to detach, you're gonna constantly get tripped up on things that don't really matter. And I'll tell you, the more,

• 1:21:49Jocko Willink?

  the better you get, the less things matter.

• 1:21:54Jocko Willink?

  The better you get, the less things matter.

• 1:21:58Jocko Willink?

  And the better you get, the more, the more important things matter. So you, you end up just wasting no energy on things that don't matter and focusing all your energy on things that actually matter. And this is the difference, man. This is how you win in jujitsu, this is how you win as a leader, this is how you win in combat. And this is truly how you win in life. Think about all the thi- You know what you used to talk about a lot? You haven't done it in a while. You used to talk about distractions. How things can distract you. That's totally true. That's what I'm talking about. The things that distract you from what actually matters. So you have to, you have to figure out how to detach from those things.

• 1:22:38Jocko Willink?

  I was doing some reading, as is per norm, and there was a guy named Keith Douglas. He was a British soldier, World War II.

• 1:22:48Jocko Willink?

  He's kind of a badass. He was stuck in an administrative position in October of 1942, during the Second Battle of El Alameen. And so he was stuck in this administrative position, so he just went AWOL and went to the front line and joined the fight and got after it. And one of the things that he wrote, he said, "To be sentimental or emotional now is dangerous to oneself and to others."

• 1:23:14Jocko Willink?

  So, what is he talking about? You can't get emotional. You can't get sentimental. You can't get caught up in things that don't matter. After his return from Africa, this guy Keith Douglas, he wrote a book about his experience. Here's a little excerpt to kind of think about what this guy's been through. That taught him these lessons. Here we go.

• 1:23:38Jocko Willink?

  "As I came up to them, I recognized one of them as Robin, the observation officer, whose aide I had been asking for earlier in the day. I recognized his fleece lines, fleece line suede waistcoat and polished brass shoulder titles, and then his face, strained and tired with pain.

• 1:24:00Jocko Willink?

  His left foot was smashed to a pulp, mingled with the remainder of a boot.

• 1:24:07Jocko Willink?

  But as I spoke to Robin, saying, 'Have you got a tourniquet, Robin?' He answered apologetically, 'I'm afraid I haven't, Keith.'

• 1:24:17Jocko Willink?

  I looked at the second man. Only his clothes distinguished him as a human being.

• 1:24:25Jocko Willink?

  His face had gone. In place of it was a huge, yellow vegetable.

• 1:24:34Jocko Willink?

  The eyes blinked in it, without lashes. And a grotesque, huge mouth dribbled and moaned like a child exhausted with crying.

• 1:24:53Jocko Willink?

  So, there's an example of a horrible situation that you have to learn to detach and you have to be able to focus on things that actually matter because, as Keith Douglas said, "To be sentimental or emotional now is dangerous to oneself and to others."

• 1:25:15Jocko Willink?

  Now, as I was digging into a little bit of Keith Douglas, and we'll get to Keith Douglas fully on the podcast, but he added to that line. He added another line that I want to hit as well. "To be sentimental or emotional now is dangerous to oneself and to others." And he continues, "To trust anyone or to admit any hope of a better world is criminally foolish."

• 1:25:43Jocko Willink?

  As foolish as it is to stop working for it.

• 1:25:51Jocko Willink?

  So...

• 1:25:54Jocko Willink?

  I, you know, that's a little tangent. That's a tangent, but it's powerful. And, like I said, we'll get to Keith Douglas's book, and that book got published after the war. And unfortunately, Keith Douglas never saw that book get published because he was killed by enemy mortar fire on June 9th, just a few days into the D-Day invasion of Normandy, which he took part in.

• 1:26:24Jocko Willink?

  But again, luckily, he left us a lesson, which is to control your emotions. And I think as a, as a person and as an individual, if you can start trying to discriminate between things that matter and things that don't matter.

• 1:26:46Jocko Willink?

  And the way that you do that is by detaching from everything. And then you can pay attention and you can assess logically, not emotionally, what's important and what's not. And you focus on the things that matter and it's going to make your entire life a lot easier. It's a great lesson from Keith Douglas.

• 1:27:06Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's all I've got for today. I will say that speaking of lessons,

• 1:27:16Jocko Willink?

  I've got a little lesson to pass on in a book, in a forthcoming book. It's called Mikey and the Dragons.

• 1:27:26Jocko Willink?

  And if you didn't hear about the book yet, Mikey and the Dragons is about a young kid that's scared of everything. And that makes his life pretty hard, pretty miserable because he's scared of everything. And one day he finds a book.

• 1:27:42Jocko Willink?

  And one day he's scared of everything. He finds this book and, and, and there's a book within the book in the story. And we'll go into the book within the book right here, real quick. And then one day, Mikey noticed a book. He opened it up and took a quick look. It had pictures of dragons with fangs like a snake and all kinds of scary things that made Mikey shake. But in the pictures, there was a boy too, who didn't look scared, but like he knew what to do. And even though Mikey was scared indeed, he decided that he would give the book a read. He opened the first page, which he eagerly read. And this is what the dragon book said.

• 1:28:28Jocko Willink?

  There once was a kingdom long ago and far away, and the kingdom had suffered a horrible day. Their protector and leader, their king, he had died. And when they found out, the whole village cried. When the king was alive, he was a powerful force. Now they took the dead king away by carriage and horse. They knew they would miss him, and that made them sad. But there was something else that made them feel bad. The king had always been so strong and brave and protected the kingdom from the dragon cave. The dragon cave was just over the hill and filled with scary dragons that were ready to kill.

• 1:29:07Jocko Willink?

  And the story continues from there and explains that no one in the village in the kingdom would stand up to the dragons, except the young prince, who is only seven years old. And he's nervous, and he's scared. He doesn't know if he can handle it. But he kind of realizes he's gonna have to step up. So he goes to his father's war chest.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:29:31Jocko Willink?

  I'm so happy that I could put the word war chest in a book.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:36Jocko Willink?

  And he finds the shield and he finds the sword of his dad, and they're both super heavy.

• 1:29:44Jocko Willink?

  But then he also finds a little note, a little note from his father, the king, that explains how to overcome the dragons. So even though this book is aimed at kids, I think we all know that we all have dragons to fight.

• 1:30:02Jocko Willink?

  And like I said on the last podcast, I really wanted to get this book into the hands of kids and really into the hands of everyone. But again, my publisher told me that there was no scenario where this book gets published by November. So what did I do? I started my own publishing company, and the book will be out in November. So yeah, it's actually getting printed at this time. And in order to pull this off, in order to actually know how many books I need to print, I think it already looks like I need to print more books because you all ordered a lot of them already. So thank you, preorder, so that I know what

• 1:30:45Jocko Willink?

  to print. So I can print enough of the sacred first edition.

• 1:30:52Jocko Willink?

  If you want you and your kids and your family to know how to crush their dragons.

• 1:31:00Jocko Willink?

  Appreciate it.

• 1:31:03Jocko Willink?

  Gonna need that, that's what's gonna happen. We're gonna go forward together, slay dragons. In this case, who's the dragon? Well, you know, big publishing companies.

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  Sometimes.

• 1:31:17Jocko Willink?

  Anyways, we all have our dragons to fight. And

• 1:31:24Jocko Willink?

  when we fight our dragons, well, I don't know. Maybe sometimes we could use some help?

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:31:28Jocko Willink?

  Echo?

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  Sometimes.

• 1:31:29Jocko Willink?

  You know any way that we could maybe get some help fighting our dragons?

• 1:31:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 1:31:35Jocko Willink?

  The dragons?

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  The dragons.

• 1:31:37Jocko Willink?

  Our dragons?

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  Sure, our dragon. Yeah, so I'll tell you this, this might help, this will help actually, if you realize to the full extent that capability, capability and knowledge that will help you fight the dragons.

• 1:31:55Jocko Willink?

  Those two things are imperative in fighting dragons.

• 1:31:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we're staying on the path. That's the capability part. Actually, the path is both.

• 1:32:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the path is straight up. Covers all.

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, capability, knowledge, always trying to improve. So every step forward on the path is a step forward in capability, knowledge.

• 1:32:17Jocko Willink?

  Check, check.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  As opposed to the slippery slope, which is step backwards in capability and knowledge.

• 1:32:23Jocko Willink?

  Gotta be careful on that one.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  Yes, so what capability, right, is preparation, execution, results. Right? Just made that up right now, literally. So it could be flawed, but whatever, sounds good to me. So, so staying on the path, what, start with jujitsu, of course?

• 1:32:38Jocko Willink?

  Good place to start.

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  About jujitsu.

• 1:32:39Jocko Willink?

  Good, universal, kind of overarching.

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Jocko Willink?

  How many people hit you up a day that just started jujitsu?

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  A lot, and what I started doing, trying to do, is everyone that's indicating they just started jujitsu, first day jujitsu, second day jujitsu, just got my kid into jujitsu, I just retweet it.

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  And be like boom, you're, you know.

• 1:33:01Jocko Willink?

  In the game.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  Just letting people know, hey.

• 1:33:03Jocko Willink?

  It's okay.

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  Yep, here's another person, all different type of scenarios too, by the way.

• 1:33:07Jocko Willink?

  Different types.

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  Here's the, here's one I run into.

• 1:33:09Jocko Willink?

  Years old, 12 years old, 29 years old, bad back, uh, you know, hurt elbow. Uh, I'm a surgeon, I'm a firefighter, I'm a police officer, I'm a CEO. It doesn't matter.

• 1:33:21Speaker 01

  Good.

• 1:33:22Jocko Willink?

  Get in the game.

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, all good. And every once in a while, I'll see this, yes, got my kids into jitsu, you know, one of them, I wish was maybe a little bit more into it, you know. Like, what should I do or so, or whatever, maybe not even that, they just said, like, bro, you jump in there. You know, so it's like, it's a, cause a lot of times it's like, oh yeah, this is perfect for my kid.

• 1:33:43Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:43Speaker 01

  Or my kid wants to jump in.

• 1:33:45Jocko Willink?

  If, yeah, if you're, if you're taking your kids to jitsu and you're not participating, we got an issue.

• 1:33:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's, let's at the very least, just consider that, just consider it, think about it.

• 1:33:55Jocko Willink?

  No, I'm saying, I'm saying straight up.

• 1:33:56Speaker 01

  You're saying jump in.

• 1:33:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, get it, get it.

• 1:33:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, so.

• 1:33:59Jocko Willink?

  I had a, a cool guy come into the gym here and was in, uh, police officer. And he had his kids all fired up, you know, all the kids are into it, they're so fired up, that's awesome, I was like, oh, you know, what class are you going to? He's like, wow, I guilt tripped him immediately, level seven guilt trip. I was like, bro, are you kidding me? Come on, get on the mat. So he's in the game now.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, and, and that's not like that rare of a story because in even just how our gym is laid out. Where, you know, the kids' class is going on, hey, just, just look right behind you right now, look right behind you. Hey, that's the adults going on right now. So you can just let, let your kids go, I know you wanna watch the kids, you wanna see what up, you wanna see what's going on, don't worry about that.

• 1:34:39Jocko Willink?

  They're gonna be fine.

• 1:34:39Speaker 01

  Adam, you know, they, they got it, they got it.

• 1:34:42Jocko Willink?

  Dave, they got it, they got those kids on lock.

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, on lock, in a good way, by the way.

• 1:34:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:46Speaker 01

  And just, just turn around, just jumping down right there. You're gonna have as much fun as your kid, by the way, if not more, by the way.

• 1:34:53Jocko Willink?

  Plus, you're gonna have something in common with your kid.

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:34:55Jocko Willink?

  And you're, and I'll tell you what, if you don't, your kid's gonna be beating you, is, is gonna be beating you up.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  And that's gonna suck.

• 1:35:04Jocko Willink?

  Hey, the kids grow up, my kid's 15, my boy is 15.

• 1:35:10Jocko Willink?

  You better watch out.

• 1:35:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we want, I think there's a secret part of us, if not overt part of us, that wants our kid one day to like, question you, stand up to you, maybe confront you about some stuff, some questions they have about you and your whole thing.

• 1:35:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know, I got asked that the other day. It's like, didn't it really make you mad? Because the story in dichotomy leadership about the patches, right? The patches.

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, patches on.

• 1:35:34Jocko Willink?

  I told the guys, no patches, and Leif and Seth made patches anyways, and brought them. And this guy's like, weren't you like offended and weren't you mad? I was like, no, actually, I was kind of thinking to myself, well, cool, these guys have that little rebellious streak that they need as leaders to tell the man, to stick it to the man.

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:53Jocko Willink?

  That's fine with me. Yeah.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:55Jocko Willink?

  It wasn't offensive. They weren't doing something that was going to get someone hurt or killed. They were just being little rebels, which is fine. So, do I want to see that with my kids? Yes, I want to see a little bit. Sometimes I need to keep that in check.

• 1:36:09Speaker 01

  Big tip. So, if you're not doing jujitsu and your kids are, especially if it's a boy, well, no, girl, boy, whatever. That, the probability of them standing up to you maybe a little earlier than you expected is very high. That's what I think. That's my hypothesis.

• 1:36:24Jocko Willink?

  That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

• 1:36:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:27Jocko Willink?

  It will be a bad thing if you can't do anything about it because you're not prepared. Kids get good. Kids get good fast.

• 1:36:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's funny because you get these kids, right, who really get into it, then they grow up into adults. So, the belt system is kind of, it's like planting a seed. Before the plant goes above ground, there's a lot that goes on underground, right? So, some plants, you know, the bamboo, anyway, there's a, what do you call, what do you call this, limericks? I don't know. Either way, there's an old school story about the bamboo. It takes like a bunch of years when you plant it. But once it breaks ground, it takes, it shoots up super fast, right? That's how kids are with jiu-jitsu.

• 1:37:05Jocko Willink?

  It's a metaphor.

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a metaphor. But that's an old, common story, they say, as a metaphor. Anyway, so you put the kid in jiu-jitsu, they really like it, and kids, they get the belts though. What are their belts? White, and then you have these intermediary belts now.

• 1:37:20Jocko Willink?

  White, gray, yellow.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  The main ones are white, yellow, orange, green.

• 1:37:24Jocko Willink?

  Gray has become a main one now too. Gray has become legit.

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  Okay, so you get up to green belt. That's essentially the purple slash brown belt of kids, the green belt.

• 1:37:34Jocko Willink?

  Interesting.

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  And then you can't get a blue belt until sixteen, traditionally.

• 1:37:38Jocko Willink?

  Tradish.

• 1:37:38Speaker 01

  So, once you reach blue belt, you're essentially a black belt for your body. That's it. Your body is like right into puberty or whatever. Here's the thing with not.

• 1:37:48Jocko Willink?

  I don't completely agree with you.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  Okay, so yeah, I dig it.

• 1:37:50Jocko Willink?

  I, I hear what you're saying, but to your point, usually ten years to become a black belt around, if you're training hard and all that. And what you're saying is a kid could start at five and now sixteen gets his blue belt. He's been training for eleven years. So, to your point, his skill level could be very, very high.

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's, yeah, you're right. And I, I got into the story, so I said, black belt may be irresponsible. Either way, when he hits blue belt, that's not a normal adult blue belt.

• 1:38:18Jocko Willink?

  Oh, no.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  That is a kick-ass blue belt.

• 1:38:20Jocko Willink?

  That's a killer.

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  So, he's gonna go, oh yeah, my first time fighting is blue belt, I'm seventeen years old. And he's beating everyone, super easy to, by the way. And these are adults, twenty-five, twenty-six years old, and he's just beating them. So, he gets his purple belt right, right away, unless he's in one of these situations where they actually make you be blue belt for two years. You know, sometimes there's that. Like, I think I P J J F does that.

• 1:38:40Jocko Willink?

  Sometimes.

• 1:38:40Speaker 01

  Competing wise. Anyway, anyway, when they, when they reach ground, meaning adulthood, when they reach above ground, like the bamboo, they just shoot because all their fundamentals are like dialed, like super sharp.

• 1:38:51Jocko Willink?

  They've developed like a whole proprioception.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:56Jocko Willink?

  And body understanding, and it's proprioception not just of their own body, but of their opponent's body as well. Like, they know where their opponent's gonna be.

• 1:39:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:05Jocko Willink?

  Which is legit.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:07Jocko Willink?

  So, get on the path of jiu-jitsu.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  Jiu-jitsu, yeah.

• 1:39:10Jocko Willink?

  The overall concept that we're getting at here.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and yeah, it's very jiu-jitsu heavy, I think, today, but, you know, I haven't really been training that much. Either way, oh yeah, jump on the path, you're gonna need a gi and a rash guard. So people ask, where do we start? Where do I go? Where do I go to get a gi? Go online, originmaine.com, boom, gi's all plenty, pick whichever one is right for you. They are all made in America, by the way. Which, you know, it seems like common knowledge, but let's say this is your first introduction to originmaine.com. Boom, now you know. Get a gi, get a rash guard, jump on the path, jiu-jitsu, just jump in.

• 1:39:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  Usually the first class is free, by the way, most places.

• 1:39:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And a lot of people ask, hey, I need advice going to my first class. Just go, keep an open mind, have fun, relax, do all those things.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, a big one is like, keep your ears like open, you know? Don't, don't be that guy, like you always say this word, don't be the guy, be like, what if I just do this? You know, kind of thing, like what, it doesn't work? If you just go in, just listen, just listen and.

• 1:40:16Jocko Willink?

  I'm hard to annoy. I think that might be starting to annoy me a little bit. When people are talking to a big group of people that have never done jiu-jitsu before and someone throws out the like, well, hey, what if, you know, what if they just grab your arm right here? It's like, well, there's 14 other moves that you can do from that, which I didn't get to, because I'm trying to teach you this fundamental thing over here that you don't understand because you're an idiot.

• 1:40:36Speaker 01

  Damn, bro, idiot.

• 1:40:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's the, yeah, I would say that, just keep that in mind. That's the advice. If you, you know, if they ask, what do I do?

• 1:40:44Jocko Willink?

  Keep your ears open, keep, I don't want to discourage people from asking questions. But let's just, let's just think about how we ask the questions, right? Don't ask it as a challenge to the canon of jiu-jitsu knowledge, which is the way some people ask it. All you have to do is this. It's like, no, actually, if you say like, hey, sometimes he's doing this and I don't know what to do yet. Okay, that's fine, I'm gonna tell you and I won't be annoyed at all. If you tell me, if you say it to me like you just uncovered the secret key of jiu-jitsu, I'm gonna be slightly annoyed. You won't know it, but I'll just be like, oh yeah, well, here you go, here's what you do.

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:22Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 1:41:23Speaker 01

  Actually, you mentioned the key to defeating jiu-jitsu. You mentioned it a few times, run away.

• 1:41:28Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  That's it, 100%. Nobody can submit me if I'm running unless they fasten it to me.

• 1:41:34Jocko Willink?

  True. Running is a good self-defense. Hey, also at Origin, we got, we got some supplements at Origin. And we got joint warfare.

• 1:41:44Jocko Willink?

  Which will help you Train every day. We got Krill oil, which will also help you train every day. And those kind of complement each other.

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  They yeah, very much.

• 1:41:58Jocko Willink?

  They very much to complement. What I didn't, the whole mental. Like curcumin.

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:05Jocko Willink?

  And krill oil, this big like massage for your brain and getting everything. So anyways, so try those, those we get great. Feedback on those all the time. Also got the discipline, which is for pre-mission. Nutrition. When you need to do something both cognitive and physical, we got your back.

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:25Jocko Willink?

  On this one. Uh. Three scoops, we've determined is kind of the limit. In my opinion.

• 1:42:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I think it's kind of limit.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  Currently, I would say that for.

• 1:42:35Jocko Willink?

  Have you ever taken like the old school pre-workout?

• 1:42:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:42:39Jocko Willink?

  Before jujitsu?

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, no. I don't take this stuff before jujitsu.

• 1:42:42Jocko Willink?

  I I've done that before and it's horrible.

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:45Jocko Willink?

  It's like the wrong, wrong move.

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:47Jocko Willink?

  I think if you, because your, your heart's beating, you're all amped up. It's just not good.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:51Jocko Willink?

  You can't think straight, you know? Discipline is not like that at all.

• 1:42:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:56Jocko Willink?

  Three scoops will get you right in the zone where you want to be. And. But I think I haven't tried four scoops because I just think it would be crazy. But I think four scoops would start to lean towards Too much.

• 1:43:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:09Jocko Willink?

  Too much.

• 1:43:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And and that that's the case with most things, right? Where it's like, oh yeah, two scoops is better than one. And it's true. Three scoops even better than two. Dang, that's true too. And then that's kind of it. And yeah, you can't do that. That's most.

• 1:43:20Jocko Willink?

  There's a dichotomy.

• 1:43:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:22Jocko Willink?

  Find the balance.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  Gotta find the balance.

• 1:43:23Jocko Willink?

  Gotta find the balance.

• 1:43:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:25Jocko Willink?

  Molk. We got milk. Molk is Molk.

• 1:43:31Speaker 01

  Protein milk.

• 1:43:32Jocko Willink?

  Molk is milk has protein in it. We have multiple flavors now. We have mint chocolate, we have peanut butter chocolate, we have vanilla gorilla, we have the darkness. Just straight chocolate.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is surprisingly good, by the way.

• 1:43:44Jocko Willink?

  Why is that surprised? Are you surprised still right now?

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:43:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I am not surprised at all anymore.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  Well, put it this way, I'm not surprised in the capability that it took to make it taste good. I'm not saying that.

• 1:43:54Jocko Willink?

  That was the hardest one to make.

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:56Jocko Willink?

  It took us a long time. We went through iteration. So, so if it surprised you, I guess I take that back.

• 1:44:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:01Jocko Willink?

  It is surprising how good it is, cuz it's good.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:05Jocko Willink?

  It's really good.

• 1:44:06Speaker 01

  Cuz it's like easy when you think about it. You're like, okay, chocolate mint, mm, okay, good. I mean, as far as making that taste good, I'm not gonna be that impressed because come on, it's mint chocolate. Let's face it, it's good. Mint or or chocolate peanut butter, same deal.

• 1:44:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  In fact.

• 1:44:19Jocko Willink?

  Isn't it weird, though, as as good as those flavors are, how come it's so, how come it's been until now that someone could actually make them taste the way they're supposed to taste? You should be more impressed than you are.

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, now that you break it down like that, sure, I think you're actually right. I didn't think of that. I just considered, gee, so obvious, put peanut butter in anything, in my opinion, Brad, it's gonna make it taste good. But if you're gonna try to hit me with the straight chocolate on something with protein that's good for you, that low in sugar, I'm like, yeah, okay, I'll give it a chance.

• 1:44:50Jocko Willink?

  Low in sugar, one gram.

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:52Jocko Willink?

  Uh, I was, we went out, I went to eat with my fam.

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  Sure, hell yeah.

• 1:44:58Jocko Willink?

  And my, we were talking about, we were just talking about food.

• 1:45:03Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:45:03Jocko Willink?

  And my daughter was like, well, sometimes, she's like, you, you just eat like one meal and then you just have like nuts and milk.

• 1:45:10Jocko Willink?

  Cuz, cuz I do, I eat nuts, I I get the big giant, uh, what are they called, cans of mixed nuts.

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, mix out the container.

• 1:45:19Jocko Willink?

  And I have some, yeah, container, big container, yeah, and I have, just have like handful of nuts. I'll put some of them in a bowl and then I'm just doing that and milk. And that's when you can't use the peanut butter milk, in my opinion. Too much, too much nuts.

• 1:45:32Speaker 01

  Peanut, nuts overload, yeah, bro, I dig it. Um, I I don't agree, but hey, I dig it, man.

• 1:45:37Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you don't agree that you can do too much peanut butter?

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  No, so, yeah, that head, you know, I had that, one of those, you know, those huge things of peanut butter, the biggest one you buy.

• 1:45:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, from the big box store.

• 1:45:50Speaker 01

  Got the stockpile. Anyway, yeah, milk is good. Good protein on that one.

• 1:45:55Jocko Willink?

  Now, I'll tell you what, now we just came out with Warrior Kid Milk. And Did the right thing. And and truly, this is awesome. And I'll tell you why it's awesome. Because kids need good food. Kids need healthy food and they're not gonna eat healthy food if it tastes like junk. And so we made Warrior Kid Milk. There's a little less protein in it. There's only ele- only 11 grams. There's 11 grams of protein. Sure. For for the kids. There's probiotics, there's vitamins, there's one gram of sugar, which is which is not even sugar. It's something else. Whatever's one gram of sugar in there.

• 1:46:40Jocko Willink?

  Um, and it tastes awesome. Strawberry and chocolate. The chocolate's delicious. The strawberry is kinda next level. The strawberry is so good. It tastes like someone took the ultra high end ice cream and made you a milkshake with it strawberry style. That's what it tastes like. Your kids are gonna love it and you're gonna love it. That's the problem. I mean, the problem is, it's not a problem. The the reality is, I've had strawberry milk. Warrior Kid Strawberry Milk, like for dessert, three meals in a row. Right now, the last three meals I had strawberry milk every time. Why is that? Tastes good. And it's good, it's awesome for you. This is a revolution. I I'm not gonna throw this out there. Like, like, just throw this word out there.

• 1:47:25Jocko Willink?

  This is a revolutionary thing. But can you imagine? I think this is the first product in the history of the world that I can personally think of. You tell me if you can think of something else. Okay. This is the first product that I can think of in the world. That the kids are gonna wanna have it as much as the parents are gonna want them to have it.

• 1:47:45Jocko Willink?

  I don't know of any other thing like that. Yeah. What what other thing is like that? The kids wanna have it as bad as the parents. Cause like, the kids want ice cream. They want it bad. The kid, the parents don't want them to have it. Yeah. Right? The parents want the kids to have, uh, the vitamin pill. The kids don't wanna have it. Yeah. This is a universal want. Yeah. It's delicious.

• 1:48:09Jocko Willink?

  And it's awesome for the kids. So I'm super stoked cuz it's cool when kids wanna be on the warrior kid path. But they don't have good food easily accessible. This is gonna replace all them little chocolatey sugary drinks that parents have been forced to feed their young children and poison them. No more. Those days are over. So get on the milk train.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:32Jocko Willink?

  And get your warrior kids on the milk train as well.

• 1:48:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, the that strawberry one is funny cuz I don't, when I go to wherever to get a milkshake, I don't get the strawberry.

• 1:48:42Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no, no, neither would I.

• 1:48:44Speaker 01

  But I mixed up the straight, you know, I got some, everyone's excited, there's been some hype.

• 1:48:51Speaker 01

  And you know, so I'm like, alright, we'll see what up. Meet my son, whatever. He's two, by the way. Uh, so yeah, I mix it up or whatever and you know, I taste it, pride, it's, you know, something will bring you right back. When you're a kid, the strawberry, whatever. Bruh, that's, I think that's the last time I really got into a strawberry something.

• 1:49:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like as a child.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  Right back, man, right back.

• 1:49:11Jocko Willink?

  Well, there's the ready-made strawberry milk that you used to get when you were a kid. And let's face it. That, that is a whole memory section in your brain that remembers that. It's looking for it. Sometimes you go into a 7-Eleven, you see one of those, you're like. And now that, like I am a straight up milk, same, the strawberry milk, right there.

• 1:49:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the same thing.

• 1:49:31Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's probably tastes better cuz it's got a little bit, it's a little bit thicker, you know, it's got a little bit more. It's like a milkshake.

• 1:49:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:39Jocko Willink?

  We're gonna have to come up with strawberry, uh, milk adult too, with a little bit more protein, just for GP. Cuz it's good. But in the meantime, get that warrior kid strawberry.

• 1:49:47Speaker 01

  Bring you right back.

• 1:49:48Jocko Willink?

  And the warrior kid chocolate's good too. It's, it's awesome.

• 1:49:51Speaker 01

  Well, I prefer the chocolate. I'm just saying the strawberry brought me back. It was good. I like it. Obviously, my son, my son drank most of it, but you know.

• 1:49:59Jocko Willink?

  He's two.

• 1:50:00Speaker 01

  He's two, yes, sir.

• 1:50:01Jocko Willink?

  How's his, how, what's his bicep workouts looking like right now?

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  Solid. He actually, I have a video of him deadlifting one of the kettlebells, the on it ones. It's dope. Yeah, two, good form too. Kids have surprisingly good form.

• 1:50:12Jocko Willink?

  Good form. They know what's up. They get broken down over time by society. Gotta fight against it. Alright, let's roll.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, yeah, milk, good. Uh, also, what? Warrior kid milk, you already said that, and that's that. We have our own store, so that's something. Yeah, if you want to represent, you want to get a shirt, you want to get a hoodie, you want to get a hat, more rash guards on there, more, more specific, direct messages on the rash guards for staying on the path. Go to jocko store.com.

• 1:50:42Jocko Willink?

  Also, you can get t-shirts because not everyone wears rash guards all the time like John Donahue.

• 1:50:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:50:47Jocko Willink?

  So let's just wear regular t-shirts sometimes. Hey, I'm down. We ought to send, we ought to send John Donahue some, some of these things.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, but yeah, that's where it is, jocko store.com. Good shirts on there, new shirts on there, by the way.

• 1:50:58Jocko Willink?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:50:59Speaker 01

  Um, shoot, I've been meaning to sort of send everybody an email, kind of letting them know, because there's a few of them.

• 1:51:04Jocko Willink?

  Hmm.

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  I'll do that.

• 1:51:06Jocko Willink?

  Check. Do that. Also got hats.

• 1:51:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:10Jocko Willink?

  For those of you that like flex fit hats, they're available.

• 1:51:14Speaker 01

  They're dope.

• 1:51:14Jocko Willink?

  For those of you that like truckers hats, they're also available.

• 1:51:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:51:19Jocko Willink?

  And hoodies, legit hoodies.

• 1:51:23Speaker 01

  Legit.

• 1:51:25Speaker 01

  Heavy.

• 1:51:25Jocko Willink?

  Heavy. And do we also, do we have any Hawaiian on there left?

• 1:51:30Speaker 01

  No Hawaiian, uh, you know, I, I, yeah, no, not as of right now, no.

• 1:51:35Jocko Willink?

  Okay. Maybe in the summer, we'll make the Hawaiian one again.

• 1:51:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, or maybe the winner for the actual Hawaii people.

• 1:51:41Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, true. Got to get it home, so that's good.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, some women's stuff on there too, by the way. Some new, uh, some more women's stuff.

• 1:51:50Jocko Willink?

  For the female troopers.

• 1:51:52Speaker 01

  Yes, specific.

• 1:51:53Jocko Willink?

  In the house.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  Not specific.

• 1:51:54Jocko Willink?

  Uh, remember, subscribe to this podcast, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher. Leave reviews so I can read them, so Echo can read them, but mostly so I can read them.

• 1:52:06Jocko Willink?

  I want the feedback.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:07Jocko Willink?

  Echo's over there cruising.

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  Well, I get addicted to reading those.

• 1:52:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, because when they're funny, they're, when they're interesting, but usually the interesting ones, by interesting, I mean funny.

• 1:52:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, they are, they're good, very good.

• 1:52:18Jocko Willink?

  Uh, and also don't forget about the Warrior Kid podcast.

• 1:52:23Jocko Willink?

  Nothing but great feedback on the Warrior Kid Podcast, people listening to it over and over and over again, partially because they love it, partially because I haven't put out enough episodes. So, we got a little intense time period, books coming out and all that, but we're kinda getting through that, so I'll be able to get back on the path of making the Warrior Kid Podcast. As a matter of fact, I'm almost done with a story from Uncle Jake. Good story from Uncle Jake, a real big lesson learned. That'll be on the Warrior Kid Podcast, so subscribe to that one as well, and don't forget about that Warrior Kid soap from IrishOaksRanch.com. We got young Aiden, the Warrior Kid, running his own business, age 13, making money, making

• 1:53:07Jocko Willink?

  product, made in America, made with goat milk. What else do you need to know, other than get some soap and stay clean? Also get the YouTube, YouTube videos. Now, we are stepping up our game. I know we've been talking about this for a long time, some of it's just been the form of harassment, me harassing Echo, but we actually are making preparations, training is underway, people are coming on board, things are happening, we're moving in the right direction. And so, YouTube, subscribe to YouTube, we're gonna start, we're gonna use that platform even more. Get it out there.

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  Yes, utilizing, spreading good messages to keep people on the path, sometimes to get people on the path.

• 1:53:55Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's a good thing. Psychological Warfare, speaking of the path, Little Help Staying on the Path, these are little tracks about overcoming your own personal, individual weaknesses at one time or another. So, you get that album, and you press play in certain scenarios. We're working on assembling Psychological Warfare 2.

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:18Jocko Willink?

  Probably gonna be called, "All Your Excuses Are Lies."

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  Good.

• 1:54:22Jocko Willink?

  And that one will come out before Christmas. We'll get it to you before Christmas.

• 1:54:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we should be able to get it to you before Christmas.

• 1:54:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, in time for the New Year's resolutions.

• 1:54:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:32Speaker 01

  As they develop.

• 1:54:34Jocko Willink?

  Yes, they develop.

• 1:54:35Speaker 01

  Even though you're anti-New Year's resolution.

• 1:54:37Jocko Willink?

  I am.

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  From what I understand.

• 1:54:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. No, it's just another day to me. No feelings over you on my part.

• 1:54:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:43Jocko Willink?

  If I had a, if I was gonna make a resolution, you know when I'd start it? Right now.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:54:47Jocko Willink?

  Why would I wait?

• 1:54:48Speaker 01

  Today.

• 1:54:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. No, now. Not even today, now.

• 1:54:52Speaker 01

  Not later today.

• 1:54:52Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:54:53Speaker 01

  Not after dinner.

• 1:54:54Jocko Willink?

  No. Get it done now.

• 1:54:56Speaker 01

  Alright, well, it can still technically be a year's resolution, cuz you could just be like, boom, like, from now on, for the next year, I get, eh, that doesn't really fit. Either way, I dig what you're saying, and, cool, man, do it. Speaking of staying on the path, onit.com slash Jaco. Actually, there it is, on it, to stay on it. On it, when he, when they named it, On The Path, that's what they had it in reference to. I know that 100% for a fact.

• 1:55:23Speaker 01

  Get your fitness stuff. That's how you stay on the path. You bring the gym to your house. You said this, you said this earlier. I still have a 24 Hour Fitness membership, by the way.

• 1:55:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:34Speaker 01

  And I go to 24 Hour Fitness every once in a while.

• 1:55:36Jocko Willink?

  But...

• 1:55:37Speaker 01

  But having this stuff at home will keep you on the path like hardcore.

• 1:55:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, get your kettlebells when you do kettlebells, when you do kettlebells. You do kettlebells?

• 1:55:47Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:55:47Speaker 01

  I do kettlebells. Everyone that I know that's on the path does kettlebells. I'm not saying if you don't do kettlebells, you're not on the path, I'm not saying that. I'm saying if you're on the path and you don't do kettlebells, consider getting kettlebells for your house. And when you do, go to onit.com to get them, cuz they're cooler, in my opinion. That's the only ones I got. Go there, there's a lot of cool stuff on there. Some clothes on there, too, if you want.

• 1:56:13Speaker 01

  A lot of information as well. Yeah, on it.com slash Jaco, by the way. It's a good spot. Also, Jaco White Tea. Speaking of bringing the gym to your house, you better bring 8,000 pounds. Anyway, if you're drinking Jaco White Tea, yes, it is proven. People ask me, is that for real 8,000 pounds? Yeah.

• 1:56:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:56:31Jocko Willink?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:56:32Speaker 01

  One ton is 2,000 pounds.

• 1:56:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  So four tons, you will be able to deadlift. And you only have to drink one too, by the way. I drink the cans.

• 1:56:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes people say, well, I can only deadlift, you know, 485. And I'm like, drink more tea.

• 1:56:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember. I used to be like that too. I dig it. But yeah.

• 1:56:49Jocko Willink?

  Hey, it even got Jordan B Peterson. Off his, he was plateaued at 7,000 pounds. God knows how long he was stuck there at that weak level.

• 1:56:56Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:56:56Jocko Willink?

  Then he got right up, 8,000 pounds.

• 1:56:58Speaker 01

  Easy money. Jaco White Tea. You know what's funny about? Not what's funny, what's interesting. First episode of this podcast.

• 1:57:07Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:57:08Speaker 01

  We talk about pomegranate chai.

• 1:57:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you say pomegranate chai.

• 1:57:13Speaker 01

  I don't know, whatever tea that you're into.

• 1:57:15Jocko Willink?

  Cause that was the first one, you made this weird kind of easing into the podcast starting, which wasn't really what I had in mind.

• 1:57:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:23Jocko Willink?

  You know, I had more in mind like, hey, okay, we press record, we start.

• 1:57:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:57:27Jocko Willink?

  And you had, hey, you know, we're cruising over here. Let's kind of be, well, yeah, the podcast has begun now.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  But as a result.

• 1:57:34Jocko Willink?

  Different mindset.

• 1:57:35Speaker 01

  As a result, there's that added layer for the people that did listen to that first few seconds of that first, first episode. You say pomegranate, or we say pomegranate chai, you say no, pomegranate white tea.

• 1:57:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  And then look at you now.

• 1:57:50Jocko Willink?

  Day one.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  Look at you now.

• 1:57:52Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:57:52Speaker 01

  Made your own pomegranate white tea.

• 1:57:54Jocko Willink?

  Well, people would ask me all the time, what kind of tea? And I wouldn't really be able to tell them because I try, would try different ones. No one was perfect. So I just went and made the perfect one.

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  Made your own.

• 1:58:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. That's how you do it.

• 1:58:06Speaker 01

  We have it on our website too, by the way, jacostore.com. We offer it there, but you can get it anywhere.

• 1:58:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. Amazon too. Amazon has this stuff. Amazon Prime for the cans. Save yourself a little shipping. If you're on Amazon Prime.

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  Do it.

• 1:58:19Jocko Willink?

  Then you got that also on Amazon and everywhere you can buy books. We got some, we got some books. I got Way the Warrior Kid and Mark's Mission. Those are part of a series and those will, those are good books for your children as a parent. They, how many, I don't know how many people have told me this, these books have made parenting easier for them. Cause now they just look at their kid and say, hey, do you think this is what a warrior kid would do? You think a warrior kid would eat that donut right now? I don't think so. You think that warrior kid would leave with a, would, would leave their room all dirty? I don't think so. And the kid's like, no, no, no way. I got parents that say their kids say, oh no, warrior kid wouldn't do that.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:00Jocko Willink?

  Like when they read Warrior Kid, their voice goes from like, hey dad, what do you think we're gonna do? It's like, hey dad, I don't think we should do that. Sounds like weakness to me.

• 1:59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Case in point today. So my daughter, she's sensitive. I wouldn't say thin skin. Oh, I don't know. Thin skin, sensitive, whatever. So like, so if you say something mean to her as like, if, if another kid says something mean, that's something to her. You know, she's super nice to everybody. So, a kid called her a liar.

• 1:59:27Jocko Willink?

  Ooh.

• 1:59:27Speaker 01

  But apparently that's this kid's thing. He just calls people liar.

• 1:59:31Jocko Willink?

  Probably got a good reaction out of it at some point.

• 1:59:33Speaker 01

  Some.

• 1:59:34Jocko Willink?

  You know what I mean? No, he got a good reaction out of it to some point. At some point, somebody acted all crazy and he's like, oh, okay. Now, now I know how to make people really, now I know how to get a reaction.

• 1:59:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. So she doesn't like that, you know, cause she, lying was kind of the thing. My dad always kind of, we, we would get spankings for lying. That's pretty much it.

• 1:59:50Jocko Willink?

  That's a big violation of the whole thing.

• 1:59:52Speaker 01

  So, you know, so as a result, not to say I spank her for lying. I'm not saying that, but she doesn't like the whole lying thing. Or she gets accused, you know how like she'll do something, I'll be like, hey, did you brush your teeth? She'll be like, yes. And I'll be like,

• 2:00:05Jocko Willink?

  And then you go smell that breath.

• 2:00:06Speaker 01

  The truth. She'll be like, oh my God. She'll get devastated if I think she's lying.

• 2:00:10Jocko Willink?

  Well, did you go check for toothbrushes wet or dry?

• 2:00:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:00:15Jocko Willink?

  See, I get, I go deep. You wanna lie to me, we're going, we're going.

• 2:00:18Speaker 01

  But see what you did though. But see what you do though. Like if I go and investigate, that indicates to her, she's fine.

• 2:00:24Jocko Willink?

  Lack of trust.

• 2:00:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like you think I'm lying and she gets really sad. So anyway, what, what I'm saying is she's sensitive to that kind of stuff.

• 2:00:30Jocko Willink?

  She's manipulating you.

• 2:00:32Speaker 01

  That's very possible too, but it seems.

• 2:00:34Jocko Willink?

  They're good.

• 2:00:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:36Jocko Willink?

  Gotta watch them.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  Yes, you do. Anyway, so at school, she was like, hey, that's the boy he called, he calls me liar. And another day he called her a liar every day. Like that's his name. Like you're a liar every day.

• 2:00:47Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  So. One of my things, I had to go too deep into it. I tell her, "Hey, you're a nice person, so you be nice to people whether they're mean to you or not. So you're just a nice person. You don't like become a mean person because they'd be mean." And she goes, "Well, I really don't like to be called a liar." I was like, "Would you rather be called a liar or plate face?" And then she started laughing because she remembers that's how he gets over it. He laughs at himself, calls himself plate face. You know, Nathan, he's over there, he's all kind of laughing confused like, "Oh, that's funny." And they laugh about it, then they slowly become friends. So she was like, "Boom, way less bothered." That was today, and I'm not even joking. That was today when I dropped her off.

• 2:01:22Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. So that's Way of Warrior Kid and Mark's Mission. We also got Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. This is the book that, what's great about this one, people tell me, "I read two pages every day." "I read three pages every day. I wake up in the morning and read one page." Get yourself on the path. Get your mind right, as my boy Meth used to say. Up in Yosemite. He hit me up on Twitter, by the way. I'm gonna track him down. And so that's Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Christmas time, good gift for someone. You want to put someone on the path? Cool. Give them that book. Don't even say anything. Don't even, don't even introduce it. Just give them that book and just let it, let it ride.

• 2:02:06Jocko Willink?

  Because when you open it up, you're gonna open it, you have to open it up because it looks, it's not normal. And when you open it up, you see that's not normal either. It's not just a bunch of like, black print on a white page. No, it's different. So you start flipping through it, then you start saying, "Wait a second. This makes sense to me." And then the next thing you know, you wake up and it's not 7:42, it's 4:48.

• 2:02:32Speaker 01

  10, bro. 7:42 is still pretty good, I think. That depends on who you are, I guess.

• 2:02:37Jocko Willink?

  So that's the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. After that, well, not after that, but the first book, Extreme Ownership. This is a book about combat leadership. And you got The Dichotomy of Leadership, which just came out. Dichotomy Leadership, by the way.

• 2:02:54Jocko Willink?

  By the way, Extreme Ownership, number five, right now, on the Wall Street Journal Business Books list. The number one book on that list is Dichotomy Leadership. So, thanks to everyone for getting those books, and much appreciate that support. I already talked about Mikey and the Dragons. It's coming out. It's coming out on Jaco Publishing. So, if you want it, order it. Right now, it's just up on Amazon. So, go to Amazon. Go to Jocko Podcast. You can click through and get Mikey and the Dragons. Some people are having a little trouble finding it. It's there. Get it. Also, Echelon Front. This is our leadership consultancy. We solve

• 2:03:38Jocko Willink?

  problems through leadership. It's me, Leif Babin, JP Denell, Dave Burke, Flynn Cochran, Mike Sorelli, and also Mike Bahama. Don't call a speaking agency. We don't like that.

• 2:03:52Jocko Willink?

  Just email Echelon Front, [email protected], or check out our website. muster San Francisco, sold out. The only good news I have for you is that there will be more musters. Pay attention. I'll put the word out through the social media or whatever. Also, EF Overwatch. This is connecting special operations veterans and leaders and combat aviation veterans and leaders to companies that need experienced, proven leaders that understand the principles of Extreme Ownership. Go to EF Overwatch to get in that game. And if you want to keep cruising with us, you can

• 2:04:35Jocko Willink?

  find us on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook. Keep on aha. Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And thanks to everyone out there in uniform. Thanks for your sacrifice and your vigilance here at home and abroad as well. We know what you do every day, and we thank you for it. And to everyone else, remember the words of Keith Douglas, "To trust anyone or admit any hope of a better world is criminally foolish." As foolish as it is to stop working for it.

• 2:05:16Jocko Willink?

  So keep working for it. Do your part every day to become stronger, faster, smarter, better, to try and make the world a little bit better. Keep working for it and keep getting after it. And until next time, this is Echo and Jaco. Out.