86: How to Develop "Man Skills". Thoughts on Online Jiu Jitsu Training. Install Pride Into a Team. Shifting Your Mindset from Individual to Leader.

0:00:00 - Opening 0:04:52 - How to hold workout discipline when you have a hard physical job and kids, facing burn-out. 0:20:00 - How to install pride into a team/battalion/individual. 0:23:51 - How to develop "man skills" in an intellectual environment. 0:42:17 - Should you always be detached? 0:47:53 - Thoughts on The Gracie Academy online school and other Online Jiu Jitsu training. 0:55:06 - What to do when you have an egomaniac boss but you seek to LEAD. 1:02:34 - How to shift your mindset from individual contributor to manager. 1:14:25 - Why have Jiu Jitsu belts/ranking if they are not to be strived for? 1:33:57 - How to step into a manager role when everyone else has more experience than you. 1:40:49 - Training tips for LEO and Security Forces. And should we attack insurgents? Or the ideology itself? 1:46:47 - Is it unrealistic to train Jiu Jitsu with many many past and existing injuries? 1:58:53 - How to successfully deal with suicidal thoughts. 2:08:25 - Support, Cool Onnit http://www.onnit.com/jocko, JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, with Jocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. http://amzn.to/2szgaEj Origin Brand http://www.originmaine.com, Origin Jiu Jitsu Immersion Camp. Origin Brand http://www.originmaine.com. 2:31:33 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 86 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:09Jocko Willink?

  And it has been a little while since we got down to some Q and A.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 0:16Jocko Willink?

  And on top of that,

• 0:19Jocko Willink?

  on the social media, I have not been as responsive as I normally am. I've had to prioritize and execute a bunch of other things. Things like muster, things like books that are due. Things like that. So, and a bunch of travel and a bunch of work with Echelon Front, et cetera, et cetera. So, but I do get the questions. I read the questions. I read, I read. If you post something and you tag me in it on Twitter, or you put a comment on Instagram, I read it 100%.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:54Jocko Willink?

  I read it. But lately, and normally I would like everything that I see.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:00Jocko Willink?

  I would like, just, just so you know, hey, I saw it.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Right, right, I got you, yeah.

• 1:03Jocko Willink?

  I'm here. I heard you. But lately, I haven't been able to do that.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Dang.

• 1:07Jocko Willink?

  So, so I've just been, I, I read it, move, read it, move, read it, move. Uh, but if there's a good question comes up, I copy it, I paste it, I put it in the, in the question bank. And then when we get to do a Q and A, we answer the questions that I think, either they get asked a bunch. You know, so I've seen a question four or five times, that type of question.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34Jocko Willink?

  Or just a unique question that I think a lot of people can benefit from, and that's where we end up with. So today, Q and A. And let's rock and roll. First quest.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  I do want to add that on Twitter.

• 1:48Jocko Willink?

  Proceed.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Also, you know, you say you like everything, you know?

• 1:53Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Certain things, sometimes. They don't necessarily warrant like you liking them, they require an answer, you know? Like you can't like something, like let's say someone has this like really trying time or something and they say something or whatever and it's a question. Like hey, how do I get through this? You can't just like it and move on.

• 2:10Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so what I do in those situations is I like it, I copy the question and I put it in the question bank.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Okay, so your like is

• 2:20Jocko Willink?

  My like is

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Has various meanings.

• 2:22Jocko Willink?

  My like does not mean like.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:24Jocko Willink?

  My like means received.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Gotcha, yes.

• 2:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 2:29Jocko Willink?

  And it, and, and it is a heart.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33Jocko Willink?

  Which I vehemently disagree, disapprove of and disagree with.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  You don't like hearts?

• 2:38Jocko Willink?

  No. No.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Come on, bro, come on.

• 2:42Jocko Willink?

  No, no hearts.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 2:44Jocko Willink?

  In Jocko's world.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Alright, yes, sir.

• 2:46Jocko Willink?

  So but I do, it's my way of saying I read it, but what I'm saying is it's saying that I'm read it, I'm telling you that. Right at this, the past like week, I've read everything, I always read everything. But I haven't even liked them because I haven't had time to start liking them.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Dang, yes.

• 3:03Jocko Willink?

  Because if I like it, that tells me that I've gone through it and if I had to pull something from it, it's how I keep track of what I've read and what, not just what I've read, it's how I keep track of what I have extracted pertinent information from.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:23Jocko Willink?

  I might have to start doing the opposite, only like something if I want to go back to it.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, like a bookmark.

• 3:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Maybe I'll start doing that.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe.

• 3:31Jocko Willink?

  But anyways, if you're out there, I'm reading your messages, your tweets, your posts.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:40Jocko Willink?

  And appreciate it. It's all good feedback, it's awesome.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. But sometimes you get, you're, you're in the initial post, we'll say. And maybe I'm in there, maybe some other people and then other people chime in, then it starts to morph into this conversation between two other people. You can't really like those necessarily, I mean you can.

• 3:57Jocko Willink?

  I usually do, but just to keep track of where I am, just like, like.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, see, like the bookmark.

• 4:01Jocko Willink?

  The bookmark.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  So this you talking right now is just one big mass like.

• 4:07Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Saying, hey guys, I read it, here it is, here's all your likes.

• 4:10Jocko Willink?

  Yes. I like, like you all.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 4:12Jocko Willink?

  Or not even I like you all, because some of your comments I don't like.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:15Jocko Willink?

  I still like them though.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:17Jocko Willink?

  Verb like.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:19Jocko Willink?

  I like a press like, even though you said something I don't agree with. So, I still.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  I like the fact that you expressed yourself. That's kinda it.

• 4:27Jocko Willink?

  So, even if I hate what you said, you still get a little heart.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 4:34Jocko Willink?

  They should have one that's an eye, like a picture of an eye, like I've seen this, that's what it means.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  An eye, oh, right, right.

• 4:40Jocko Willink?

  Like an eyeball. I saw this, I saw this, I saw this. And then you could say like, and you should have a thumbs down dislike.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, like on YouTube.

• 4:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, either way.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 4:52Jocko Willink?

  Alright.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  First question, hey Jocko, I'm a thirty-five-year-old and have a physically demanding job. I've been a drywaller for about fourteen years, work about eight to ten hours a day. When it comes to working out, I'm finding it really hard to maintain discipline to continue as it seem, as it seems I burn out.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  I also have two boys under the age of four, so I sleep like you do. I can relate, man.

• 5:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  I'm wondering if I'm just being a pussy and need to push through the burnout or take a different approach to working out. When I burn out, my body just feels weird as well as my head. I tend to get depressed and find it hard to even go to work. Just throwing this out there for maybe some tips to get over this, so I can stay focused and consistent. Thanks.

• 5:41Jocko Willink?

  Cool. Okay, so hanging drywall, have you ever hung drywall before?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  No, yes, no, but yes.

• 5:48Jocko Willink?

  Okay. I don't know what that answer means.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  I've been in a drywall hanging.

• 5:53Jocko Willink?

  Scenario?

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Scenario, yes, but I didn't do the hanging of the drywall, yeah.

• 5:57Jocko Willink?

  That does not qualify as hanging drywall.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  I've seen it done before.

• 6:01Jocko Willink?

  Bro, you do not get qualified for hanging drywall if you've seen it, being hung. I appreciate what you're trying to say, but that doesn't work. Hanging drywall is hard work.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 6:11Jocko Willink?

  It uses a bunch of different muscles in your body. And of course, when you get better at it, because I'm not good at it when I, when I hung drywall, when I hang drywall, if I'm doing a project, I'm not good at it. If you see someone that's good at, like this guy, that's been hanging drywall for fourteen years, he's a master.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:27Jocko Willink?

  He's, he's holding it with one hand, slapping nails in, he's, or drywall screw, he's on stilts. Guys work on stilts, you ever seen that before?

• 6:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:35Jocko Willink?

  No, so good drywallers, they're on stilts, because they don't, they're just boom, slapping it up there. So, but it's hard, you're doing, you're basically doing a clean. Kind of to pull the the the drywall up, you're pushing it up, you're using your grip strength on the drywall. Then you're doing overhead presses because you drywall ceilings.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Oh dang it, yes.

• 6:55Jocko Willink?

  So, and it's eight to 10 hours, plus not to mention you're you're bending down, picking stuff up all day. So it's eight to 10 hours of squats.

• 7:03Jocko Willink?

  Cleans and overhead presses with grip work. So you're doing that eight to 10 hours a day. So. You're getting good physical work throughout the day. Now. Uh, look, man, if you're that drained, then first of all, let's check the diet. Let's make sure that we're not on the job site. And the donut truck arrives and you're you're going belly up to the donut truck.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 7:26Jocko Willink?

  With a monster, four Monster Energy Drinks, like to keep you going through the day. That's gonna hurt you. So check the diet. It's, the good thing is, check the diet. And then if you have to, you just bring your food. Don't let, you know. Your bro that's gonna run down to Mickey D's to grab lunch because you didn't pack anything, that's gonna jack you up. So all that stuff will make you feel weak and out of sorts and all that. That being said, still, you're working hard all day. You're doing hard physical labor all day.

• 7:59Jocko Willink?

  You also, I mean, you can see construction workers or drywallers, you can see people that are, do that hard labor all day. And they don't look like they're in shape, right? They're maybe they're fat, maybe they're just, they don't look like they're in shape. Well, that's because their diet sucks. Generally, they're coming home and they're getting on their their 12 pack of beer and pizza. So. Get your diet, make sure your diet's good to go. And then what I would do is, and I've worked construction before. And, or even big projects on my house where I'm working all day long. Remodeling, pulling down drywall, putting up drywall, demo in rooms, whatever. Uh, I still do a workout.

• 8:41Jocko Willink?

  Now, what you're gonna do though is do something that is going to complement. What you've done during the day. So you're getting some pretty good strength work at this point. You're getting, you know, you're getting cleans, your grip work, you're doing all this, this hard work all throughout the day. So maybe what you need to do is do some more cardiovascular at night, or maybe it's just like a really good stretching routine because you've got your strength and you've got your cardio during the day. Like if I think about how much I sweat when I'm working on a house project, I'm in a full athletic sweat. So that means I'm working hard. So find what can you do that's going to complement the, the conditioning that you're getting from

• 9:24Jocko Willink?

  your actual labor. And maybe in your case, it might just be like straight up mobility. It might be straight up mobility. Like, hey, you're just doing some good stretching, you're doing some mobility wad. Uh, that's mobility workout of the day. You can go to that website. They got really good stuff on there to, to loosen up and make sure you're staying limber. Because another thing you find with construction guys is they end up with some, you know, with a bad back, with a bad, they get, you know, tendonitis from swinging a hammer all day or holding, so you can get those kind of use, overuse injuries. And yeah, so I would look at what you can do that's going to complement that. Also, maybe you feel like, maybe you just need to do some heavy lifting, because you're lifting something little all day, you know, you're lifting drywall all day. So you're

• 10:07Jocko Willink?

  getting some good endurance, muscular endurance, but maybe just come home and do, do a couple sets of heavy deadlifts or a couple sets of heavy squats. And the other thing here is like, when we're on deployment, when I was back in the, when I was in the military, when we were on deployment, we wouldn't be doing workouts that are going to give you the, the four days of delayed onset muscular soreness, right? You're not going to do that. You're not going to put you in the pain locker. Where, hey, I did squats yesterday. Oh, Echo just got shot. I can't help him. Too tired, too sore. Bro, can someone grab Echo? Because my legs are super sore. My quads are hurting from front squats yesterday. So that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about doing some,

• 10:49Jocko Willink?

  something that's heavy, but it's quick and you're not, you know, you're not going crazy and doing so many sets that you're going to build up all kind of lactic acid and make your legs all sore. So maybe it's something that, but I would say explore all that. Look what you can find that's going to make you, that's going to complement you with what you do at work. And also you could look at some jujitsu. You know, look at some jujitsu, jujitsu, although at first, It's a crazy muscular workout, a full body workout like you've never had before.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:16Jocko Willink?

  Because you're resisting every part of your movement and you'll be sore in your entire body. But then as you get better at it, you can relax more. That takes like a year, year and a half, maybe even two years before you can really start to relax. The thing that's cool about that for you is you got two kids under the age of four. So maybe in two or three years, they're ready to start training too. Now you got a little something to share with them. A little bit of jujitsu. So yeah, don't kill yourself. Find something that complements your work. And if that's just stretching, Ben, just stretch.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:48Jocko Willink?

  And maybe, you know what I used to do at, uh, when I was at Team Two? Team Two, we used to do, we used to run all the time. It was every day. It was like, oh, Monday, PT and a run. Tuesday, swim and a run. Wednesday, obstacle course and a run.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Run, yeah.

• 12:06Jocko Willink?

  Thursday, I forget what it was. And then Friday was a long run. It was like a 12 mile run or 10 mile run on Fridays. So what I would do is I would get done with work on Friday or get done with a PT on Friday and usually would be like half, half day frogman Friday.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 12:22Jocko Willink?

  Frogman Friday, get some pre-war. No war going on. Guess what you do on Friday afternoon in the trees? You're gonna go, you know, get after it with your boys. In the bar.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  In the bar, sure.

• 12:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Frogman Friday.

• 12:35Jocko Willink?

  Frogman Friday. Again, Frogman Friday kinda went away once September 11th happened. So this is pre-September 11th, Frogman Friday. So we'd get done with work at, you know, noon. And I would, it's Friday, go down and hit my squats. And then, so Friday, I'd heal up Saturday and Sunday, back to work on Sunday, ready to rock and roll.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:54Jocko Willink?

  So maybe you hit, just do a good workout on Friday.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:58Jocko Willink?

  Good hard workout on Friday. Heal up over the weekend. You're feeling good. Monday, back in the game. But yeah, hard labor.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:05Jocko Willink?

  Requires something a little bit different.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:08Jocko Willink?

  Than those of you that are sitting at a desk, looking at a computer screen like Echo Charles.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. Yeah, you can do a different kind of workout when you do that all day, for sure. You mentioned the diet. I would say with 99% certainty, I would say, I don't know everybody.

• 13:25Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  I understand that. 99% certainty that.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  If you have a good diet, not even a immaculate diet, a good diet and you're working drywall, construction, moving, as you know, I used to be a mover for a little bit.

• 13:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  If you have a good diet.

• 13:42Jocko Willink?

  Does that mean you watched movies? Cause apparently in your mind that qualifies for, you know, just total victory.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, anyway, oh, yeah.

• 13:52Jocko Willink?

  I know you're an actual mover.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I wasn't the best mover. I was one. Anyway, that's a, that's a whole nother thing. Anyway, if you have a good diet and you're doing this kind of work, that is your workout essentially. And it's a long one. It's probably a harder workout than most people's normal workout. You do, and that's the thing. You're so right because when you're working eight, 10 hours a day, there's a lot of work to be done. So your lunch break is like, dang, this is, I'm gonna go to get some delicious, you know, to this food truck right here, or this, you know, McDonald's, wherever, wherever. It's not, you know, you, but you get a good diet with this kind of stuff. You essentially have a great workout along with a good diet. You're gonna get results, just that.

• 14:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  And in a way, you won't even really have to do these supplemental workouts unless you have different goals. So if you're like, um, okay, I'm just gonna do my work. I'm gonna have a good diet and then I stretch afterwards, which is such a good idea when you work all day. Same motion, all day, stretch, you know, get all that. Bro, you'll be way better. You'll feel way better too. And you'll be surprised how, how much easier the work becomes with that diet.

• 14:55Jocko Willink?

  And also maybe there's, like I said, you need to look for what complements it.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:59Jocko Willink?

  So with drywall, I don't, I don't know, you know, it's probably not deadlifting because you're lifting stuff all day, but maybe it's just like some hardcore, uh, like ab core strength that you're gonna work. You're gonna, you know, and that's gonna strengthen your lower back. It's gonna offset all the pressure that you put on your back all day. So maybe it's that. Maybe it's. You know, pull-ups, cuz you're not really pulling yourself up.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:24Jocko Willink?

  So, so maybe you're doing two workouts. Maybe you're doing like one workout on Fridays. You're doing abs and pull-ups.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:30Jocko Willink?

  And then during the week, you're doing a 20-minute stretch session.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:35Jocko Willink?

  To really make sure your hips are opened up. Right?

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Sure, of course.

• 15:40Jocko Willink?

  Like them guys from 10th Planet, Jujits.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, they gotta be flexible.

• 15:44Jocko Willink?

  They're flexible. That's, you have to be, you have to be able to do Lotus to get your black belt from Eddie Bravo.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Alright, there you go.

• 15:51Jocko Willink?

  I can't do the Lotus. I can't get my black belt from Eddie Bravo.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  No, no, no, you can't.

• 15:56Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Sorry, bro.

• 15:58Jocko Willink?

  I should be able to do that, at some point.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Depends on what you mean by should, but yeah, man, cool. Do the Lotus and work on that and, you know, report back. But yeah, the diet thing, I think the diet thing, that's gonna be 75, if not more, percent.

• 16:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, people hit me up that too. They say, "Oh, you don't sleep enough, and how do you not sleep? Don't eat crap, and you don't need as much sleep."

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:19Jocko Willink?

  Check that out. Give that one a try.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and, let's, let's face it, there's, people can be different with sleep requirements. You're obviously, you know, like if I said, "Hey, Jocko, you're in prison for, I don't know, whatever, and you have eight hours of sleep."

• 16:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Sleep for eight hours physically, I don't know if you can do that.

• 16:39Jocko Willink?

  I deployed on a ship, multiple times. Three shipboard deployments as a SEAL. And when you're a SEAL on a ship, you have no job. You're like, the guys that are, the guys that are in the regular Navy that are driving the ship and maintaining the ship and steering the ship and all that, they have a job. We have no job.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:56Jocko Willink?

  And so what, we, we could either sleep, eat, or lift, and that's what we used to say SEAL stood for. Sleep, eat, and lift. But some guys would sleep a lot. I wouldn't sleep a lot. We had some guys that had like sleep disorders. There was a guy that slept for like 29 hours. But then he'd wake up and stay awake for 32 hours, and then he'd go back to bed for, yeah, it was kinda weird.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Well, his circadian rhythm was way off.

• 17:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and then that happens too on a ship, because you can stay inside the ship with no sun for forever, if you want to.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  That's jamming you up.

• 17:31Jocko Willink?

  But we used to, we used to go out as much as we could on the deck of the ship.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Get a sun tan.

• 17:36Jocko Willink?

  No, do PT.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Sure, that too. But yeah, I think you, um, yeah, you sleep different and you know, some eight hour in. Actually, I've done this thing where I got used to only getting like six, six and a half and it it started to work. Like I started to only need that, but you know, I didn't like that whole thing. So I tried to go back to actually I only get six. Maybe seven now anyway, because the kids think anyway. The diet, I think will, for real thing, I believe this to be a fact, seventy five percent or more. Solution to the whole problem, the diet.

• 18:10Jocko Willink?

  Clean up the diet, eat good. Bring your lunch.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:13Jocko Willink?

  Stay away from the Mickey D's.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, stay away from all that stuff. But again, man, that's that is hard though. Consider it. I mean, I don't know if you've.

• 18:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's hard too because you retired. It's a cycle that you start going down. Because you retired when you got home, so you didn't make any food for the next day. So that means you brought something crappy or you bought. Fast food and now you ate the fast food, which makes you feel bad, which means you get home, you're tired, which means you don't make lunch for the next day, which means you're going through this bad cycle.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's not to mention the pleasure part of it because like, damn, this hard work. I need some relief from this hard work work on my lunch break.

• 18:43Jocko Willink?

  Bring some dark chocolate.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe.

• 18:46Jocko Willink?

  Right. Bring some chocolate milk.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:50Jocko Willink?

  Stuff tastes good and it's good for you. Well.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Arguably, we'll say arguably.

• 18:55Jocko Willink?

  It it's not as bad for you as a Mountain Dew.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, or a pizza by the slice from the truck, the food truck. Yeah. And that's usually what it is, man. Take it from me, I know.

• 19:06Jocko Willink?

  All right.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Cool. Next question.

• 19:07Jocko Willink?

  By the way, that was one question. We're twenty minutes deep.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  All right. Hey, man, we gotta get to the bottom of these things. I think that'll help though.

• 19:13Jocko Willink?

  It will.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  I think so because look, if you if let's say if you think, oh yeah, maybe I'll change my diet, but you know what? Okay, I'll maybe I will, maybe I won't. I'll just kind of focus on the workout part of it.

• 19:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Bro, you can work out. Man, one time I was like, uh, I didn't do any cardio. I just kind of lifted and whatever. My diet was not all that. And sure, I was I was big and strong. I went to the doctor. They said your your cholesterol or thing, you know, some stuff. On the inside, I was super unhealthy. He was like, you're unhealthy. I'm all big and strong. I was like, wait, sir, but I can bench a lot. I'm like, bro, that doesn't matter. So you can hang drywall all day. All day. And dang, that's some good endurance. If you can do that all day, every day for fourteen years, by the way.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  And be like, oh, unhealthy because you ate wrong. It'll jam you up that bad.

• 19:56Jocko Willink?

  Clean up the diet.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, good news. Clean up the diet.

• 19:59Jocko Willink?

  Next question.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Clean up the whole situation.

• 20:01Jocko Willink?

  Next question.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Next question. How do you install pride back into an individual and ultimately a battalion?

• 20:09Speaker 01

  I'm on my seventeenth year serving in the British Army. I've been in my role for about a decade and I'm about to move on to a different job. Recently, I've came out of my platoon bubble and noticed there are numerous issues I've identified and I'm looking to help my COC in fixing it.

• 20:27Jocko Willink?

  All right. So you want to instill pride back into a battalion, into a unit, into an individual. In my opinion, pride comes from hard work.

• 20:40Jocko Willink?

  Pride comes from discipline.

• 20:43Jocko Willink?

  Pride comes from performance and pride comes from winning. And how do you win? You win from hard work. You win from discipline. So that's the cycle. You work hard, you stay disciplined, that makes you start to perform, that makes you start to win. When you start to win, you get pride. And of course, there's a dichotomy there too, because you can work your guys too hard, right? You can do that. So you have to balance it. And it's funny, actually, Leif was talking about this. I think, I don't know if it was, we were with a company. And he was saying, when we formed up Task Unit Bruiser,

• 21:24Jocko Willink?

  we worked hard. We worked a lot harder than normal task units worked. We stayed later at work, we came in earlier. And, you know, he was saying, hey, when we first, the first like month we were together and Jocko's got everyone coming in early and all this stuff and people are grumbling about it and why do we got to do this extra stuff? And he's like, yeah, there's people are grumbling about. But then, once we started going through training and our performance was

• 21:54Jocko Willink?

  Above our peers, then all of a sudden it turned from grumbling to like pride.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:01Jocko Willink?

  So that's then then the guys, they stopped complaining and they start bragging.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:07Jocko Willink?

  Because you know what? We're to you bruisers. Of course, you're not at work because your your task unit is weak.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:13Jocko Willink?

  We are strong. You are weak. Get away from us. We don't want to be associated with you. So you start getting that, which is, you know, pride.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:21Jocko Willink?

  So I think that's what you got to do. You got to instill the hard work, the discipline in your team. It'll hurt a little bit at first. You got to make sure you don't go overboard with it and that'll get you what you want. If you need further references on that, read a book called Steal My Soldier's Heart. By Colonel David Hackworth or read about face by Colonel David Hackworth. He talks about this, this he takes the takes battalion, his battalion in Vietnam with no pride and turns them into people with a ton of pride. How does he do it? Makes them work hard, makes them have discipline and then they take pride in what they're doing.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Lead by example?

• 22:59Jocko Willink?

  Yes, yes.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Always?

• 23:01Jocko Willink?

  And Hackworth, he doesn't change everything at once. He doesn't come in and just go crazy. He starts changing important, small things, couple a day. I think literally he says two a day, would change two things a day.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's good.

• 23:17Jocko Willink?

  But he did start off with a big thing. If you remember this, he checked in this battalion, guys have radios, guys have guitars, guys have little bars set up. They got all this crap. He goes, hey, everything that you can't fit in a rucksack tomorrow morning in the middle of the compound here and we're getting rid of it.

• 23:35Jocko Willink?

  So that was a big wake up call for everyone. But it was a it was a wake up call and also it was, why are we doing this? Well, we're doing this so that we can move. When we move, we won't get hit at night. We'll get hit at night. We won't lose anybody. So.

• 23:49Jocko Willink?

  Good stuff.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Makes sense. Next question.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Sorry for the English, I'm French. That's a disclaimer.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  How can a man that has not grown up with the confidence and trusting male role models and mentors sort of anti Uncle Jake persons, only intellectual, I'm saying this without disrespect to these people. How can they become a confident man and develop the necessary man skills?

• 24:19Jocko Willink?

  Okay, it's interesting you can say man skills in quotes. And I think we pretty much know what that means, right?

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:27Jocko Willink?

  Like, we know what that means. So, so how do you do that? You don't have any positive role model around you that's like an Uncle Jake? Which, by the way, most people don't have an Uncle Jake, right? That's not normal to have Uncle Jake.

• 24:42Jocko Willink?

  Most people, you got what you got. And in this case, he's saying he's got like the intellectuals. So, you know, oh, my parents were college professors and they don't have any of these skills and they sit around and talk about philosophy, right? Now I ended up, I can talk about philosophy well, but

• 25:02Jocko Willink?

  I can't fix my car.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:05Jocko Willink?

  Or I can't defend myself.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:07Jocko Willink?

  In a combat scenario, in the streets. So, what are you gonna do? Okay, this is real simple. Go do things. Go do things. Lift, start lifting weights. Learn how to deadlift, learn how to squat.

• 25:20Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's part about being a man, right?

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Sure. Physically strong.

• 25:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, physically strong. Learn some jujitsu. I recommend that. Probably could have guessed that one.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:30Jocko Willink?

  Learning how to fight. Learning how to defend yourself. I just got asked this the other day. A kid came up to me, he's like, what should I do if I get intimidated by other people and I, or I don't know how to react when people like get in my face? And I said, do you train jujitsu? No. Start training jujitsu.

• 25:48Jocko Willink?

  But then what, I'm gonna fight everyone? No, no, no. You don't have to. Cause you already know you can beat them up.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:52Jocko Willink?

  Now if they attack you, yeah, you can beat them up. But if they are just getting in your face and trying to punk you, and you look at them and go, hey, if you wanna do this, let's do this, but I don't care.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:02Jocko Willink?

  I know, you can come to my gym, I'll choke you out. Train some jujitsu. Uh, so, we got that one. Run. Hike. Sprint, climb. Build things. Start building things. Rewire things.

• 26:20Jocko Willink?

  Do some plumbing.

• 26:23Jocko Willink?

  These things are not

• 26:26Jocko Willink?

  they're not impossible to do. Now, it's gonna take you longer, right? Like I've rewired my parts of my house. I've replumbed parts of my house, so done all the plumbing in parts of my house. Now, if you watch a skilled electrician do what I'm doing, it would literally take him one eighth of the time, maybe one quarter of the time because, or like the drywaller we were talking about earlier. A good drywaller, they are like masters. A good electrician, masters. A good plumber, they're smooth. Me, it's gonna take a while. So, but, but what I'm saying is it's not impossible. It's not impossible to do. And it'll take you more time, but you're learning how to do it. And that gives you,

• 27:10Jocko Willink?

  what does that give you? It gives you the self-reliance, right? Hey, I can fix my electrical outlet if I need to.

• 27:21Jocko Willink?

  So, those are good things that work on your car. Change your oil, whatever. Do those things. And, and again, those things, like I, so I took electricity class in high school, where we learned how to wire rooms and everything.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Is that what it's called?

• 27:34Jocko Willink?

  It was called electricity class. I took electricity with Scotty was the teacher's name.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Sure. Wait, you called him Scotty?

• 27:43Jocko Willink?

  Everyone called him Scotty. He was an older guy. His name was Scotty. We all called him Scotty. So Scotty, but we, we learned how to wa- wire houses and all that. Well, I didn't remember any of that. When I was now 20 years later or 15 years later, I'm rewiring my kitchen where I, which I ripped out of my house. Okay, so what did I do? You know what I did? Went down to Home Depot. I bought a book called Electrical Wiring.

• 28:11Jocko Willink?

  And I read through it and I followed the directions. Same thing with plumbing. Go down, buy a book called How to Do Plumbing. And you do it and it and the good thing about this stuff is it's very satisfying to do that kind of work.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:25Jocko Willink?

  It's very satisfying to do it and you can over engineer things you make things super solid in your own house.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:31Jocko Willink?

  Super secure.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:32Jocko Willink?

  Super, yeah, you can just kind of go the extra distance because it's your own, your own house. So that's cool. Uh, so those are all physical things and some kind of knowledge things that you can start working on. What, well, the hardest thing to overcome here is like a level of embarrassment.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:49Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 28:49Speaker 01

  How so?

• 28:50Jocko Willink?

  Like, uh, I don't know anything about wiring.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 28:52Jocko Willink?

  You know, I don't, I'm embarrassed to say I don't know anything about wiring.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 28:56Jocko Willink?

  And so people don't want to say anything so they'd rather just say, hey, well, let's get an electrician in here to figure this one out.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:00Jocko Willink?

  Or, hey, I was good, yeah. So they're too embarrassed. But if you have time, do it yourself.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:09Jocko Willink?

  And don't be embarrassed about it. Be like, hey, I'm rewiring my kitchen. I have no idea what I'm doing.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:13Jocko Willink?

  Give me this book.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:14Jocko Willink?

  What do I need to get? Oh, give me some tools. It's, it's good to have good tools.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:19Jocko Willink?

  Uh, also, so that's, that's like I said, those are things that you can do. You know, um, learn to shoot, you know, learn to shoot. That's a good, good skill to have. Also, read, right? Read, uh, about history, read about survival, read about the world, read about human beings under duress. Read, read books. Good books about good stuff, about challenges. It's, and then just like Mark in Way of the Warrior Kid, he, he doesn't know his times tables. He has to learn them. You have to go learn all the stuff I'm talking about, you have to go learn.

• 30:01Jocko Willink?

  And with, with time, your confidence is going to grow. And from humility, you'll grow into being more confident. Now, you also say you don't have any mentors or role models around you? That's okay because those mentors, mentors and role models are in books and you can find them. You can, I just talked about David Hackworth. Good mentor to have. Imagine you can have a guy, a guy wrote you a 1,000 page book.

• 30:29Jocko Willink?

  On how to lead and it's for you. That's pretty awesome. Beyond Band of Brothers by Dick Winters. Guess what? Here's a guy that was the in charge of the Band of Brothers in Normandy. And he wrote a book for you to learn how to lead. So those are some examples. And like I said, most of the books that we've covered on this or many of the books that we've covered on this podcast give you a mentor better than anyone could possibly hope for. So you can get it there, but and and we mostly cover war books, but there's books about all kinds of people that can be virtual mentors.

• 31:15Jocko Willink?

  So read, study, do.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Do.

• 31:19Jocko Willink?

  That's my advice on that one.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that physically strong thing is, in my opinion, a big deal. Cause especially what with, um, you know, intellectual types and that kind of environment. Since that's not really a priority a lot of the time. You tend to, you know how like you're not into something, so you kind of shun it.

• 31:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, that happens.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  You know, like, and I've seen this, I'm not saying all the time, but you know, sometimes the.

• 31:45Jocko Willink?

  I don't like takedowns, so I'm not gonna do them.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then you think of all the reasons why you don't need to do it and how guys focus to, you know, or whatever. So in in intellectual circle, we'll say those circles sometimes. You'd be like, oh yeah, those meatheads or whatever, you know, they just they'll shun it.

• 32:02Jocko Willink?

  Are you sensitive about that issue?

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Oh, nah. Nah, yeah, maybe, no, I don't think so actually. But they'll do that. And then there'll be these physically frail people, but since they they're in their minds smarter than everyone, they feel like they have the one up and they're kind of, there's an element of satisfaction there.

• 32:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  But. At the end of the day, you're physically weak.

• 32:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Comes down to it, and I think most of the time, I think, I don't know, but it seems like most of the time they'll have these feelings like this guy asked right here, like,

• 32:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Man, how can I develop, I feel it.

• 32:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, unless they just want to be in denial.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Right, that's what exactly.

• 32:42Jocko Willink?

  And also, and by the way, the same thing happens in the reverse. Right?

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:47Jocko Willink?

  A guy that's just a meathead, he shuns and and disrespects or disregards the intellectual side of things. And that is this, that is equally as bad. Because they're not, they don't know what's going on, they're not knowledgeable, they're not learning, they don't understand the world in a clear way, so. Find the balance between those two things.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:07Jocko Willink?

  And what's great is those things are not mutually exclusive. Like, you don't have to just be a meathead or just have to be a bookworm.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:16Jocko Willink?

  You can do both, there's plenty of time in the day to do both, be a a smart ass guy with a big deadlift. That's a good thing. I'm trying to be that guy.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:27Jocko Willink?

  Not there yet, but I'm working on it.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then that one level up, which is the jujitsu part of it, jujitsu, here's the thing too, I was thinking about jujitsu.

• 33:34Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, well, jujitsu combines the intellectual piece with the physical piece.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, and in a way, you can kind of, I wouldn't, I'm not recommending this at all, in fact, I'm against this, but this is the nature of jujitsu. You don't have to be that, like, you don't have to have a big deadlift to to dominate in jujitsu.

• 33:50Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  You don't have to do any of that, so you can essentially overcome the physical part of it, even though jujitsu is physical, but it's, you don't have to.

• 33:56Jocko Willink?

  You can overcome the physical part of it for it to a point.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, but in everyday life, I mean, you, you're trying to, you're trying to be the the guy, like, if someone's better than you at jujitsu in the training room, it really bothers you.

• 34:08Jocko Willink?

  Are you talking about, are you talking about everyone, or are you just talking about me?

• 34:11Speaker 01

  You, Jocko.

• 34:11Jocko Willink?

  It doesn't bother me.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Well, let's say it motivates, I don't know.

• 34:15Jocko Willink?

  Like, it doesn't bother me.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 34:17Jocko Willink?

  I mean, like, for instance, I train with Dean Lister all the time.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:21Jocko Willink?

  He's better than me in jujitsu.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:23Jocko Willink?

  I every day want to train with him.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:25Jocko Willink?

  So it doesn't bother me.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, it's not bother, but like, what I know, compels you.

• 34:29Jocko Willink?

  It compels me, yeah.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Like, you know.

• 34:30Jocko Willink?

  Well, maybe it does, like, I hate it.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  At the end of the day, deep down, it depends on what you mean by bother.

• 34:35Jocko Willink?

  It's funny, I hate it. I do, I hate it and I love it. And we were just joking about it the other day because we got into a little scrap yesterday. You know, kind of end of training and all of a sudden things got escalated.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 34:45Jocko Willink?

  And there was some shouting going on and.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Shouting?

• 34:49Jocko Willink?

  Shouting, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, he was saying what he says and I was saying what I say. And, uh, but we had a, you know, we had a mutual truce at the end. We, I think he didn't really want anymore. I didn't really want anymore, so we just kinda said, let's, let's laugh and call it good. Cause you're, you're rolling the dice. When I'm rolling with Dean, there's a, there's a dice roll happening. Cause if he ends up in a good position on me, there's gonna be pain, there's gonna be pain. If I end up a good position on him, there's gonna be pain. So, I think both of us, we got away a little bit unscathed. Neither one of us got a really good position. And we, I got back up to my feet and I, and then we both kinda just had a mutual, uh, agreement. An unspoken agreement that we were done for the day.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know that feeling. Yeah, I can dig it. See how that happened. But the point there being is, you know, almost like in this weird way, you know how like intellectually you can excel? So you can kind of find it justifiable to avoid the physical part of it? It's almost like you could almost say the same thing about jujitsu. You could still be effective in defending yourself without be physically strong necessarily, but.

• 35:56Jocko Willink?

  But my point is that there's a limitation to that.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, ultimately.

• 35:59Jocko Willink?

  If you, you can be, you can be unbelievable at jujitsu. But if you're really, really weak and you go against someone that's really good at jujitsu, but they're a hell of a lot stronger than you, you're gonna have some issues.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Right, right. Yeah. And that goes for everything.

• 36:13Jocko Willink?

  You gotta be both.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, ideally, and that's ultimately the main point is just like how intellectually you can be, you know, a black belt. And you can sorta in a way get away with not necessarily being physically opposed to people and vice versa. And then jujitsu is like that third element. You then sorta get away with not being super strong, but still be effective in jujitsu. You know what I mean? So ideally, just like I said.

• 36:35Jocko Willink?

  It's somewhere in the middle.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, get, get that balance.

• 36:36Jocko Willink?

  I hear what you're saying.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  But being able to defend yourself is a whole nother thing than being physically strong. Uh, you know, seems obvious, but when you go through life, I think it's not. Cause you get these like big jacked guys and it's like no one wants to mess with him. Well. Bro, this medium to small guy who knows jujitsu or knows these, you know, for real fighting stuff is way more of a, I don't wanna say dangerous, but yeah, ultimately way more dangerous than this big jack guy who can lift a lot.

• 37:03Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  So it's that third element that are kinda like-

• 37:05Jocko Willink?

  Isn't it weird when you roll with somebody that's super jacked? And they don't know jujitsu?

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:10Jocko Willink?

  And it's amazing. It's like amazing.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:14Jocko Willink?

  You just think to yourself, how is this happening?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:17Jocko Willink?

  This is the magical power.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:19Jocko Willink?

  Because you look at a big jack guy, your human instincts tell you, look out.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's gonna-

• 37:26Jocko Willink?

  That person is stronger than you.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:29Jocko Willink?

  You know, watch out. But when you know jujitsu-

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:34Jocko Willink?

  You don't, and eventually you realize you don't even have that anymore.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:38Jocko Willink?

  You know, everyone you're looking at thinking-

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Wait, you don't have, oh, you don't have-

• 37:42Jocko Willink?

  You don't have the instinct of fear. You don't have that instinct of fear. Although, you're still, you, you, you know, my first thought when I look at someone is like, do they train or not?

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:51Jocko Willink?

  Do they train or not? If they train, we, we may have issues. This could be a problem. If they don't train, no factor.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:58Jocko Willink?

  No train, no factor.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:00Jocko Willink?

  If they train, may have a factor. That's why I gotta work out hard. That's why I gotta be strong.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, you know, you know-

• 38:06Jocko Willink?

  Cause they might be coming to take my lunch money.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 38:09Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 38:09Speaker 01

  You never know.

• 38:10Jocko Willink?

  Don't want that.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Oh, how's this? Last night, literally last night.

• 38:14Jocko Willink?

  I didn't see, do you even train last night?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  I did not train last night. This is a real world experience. So you know, the five gallon jugs of water, you know, those big, you put it in the water cooler or whatever, so there's like a little refilling thing that I went to. It was like-

• 38:28Jocko Willink?

  You've told this story before.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  No, there's another, this happened last night.

• 38:30Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  So-

• 38:31Jocko Willink?

  Hazardous duty.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  I know, man.

• 38:33Jocko Willink?

  Water refilling of the jugs.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. Okay, I mentioned, I do that.

• 38:37Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  So last night, when I was doing that, I was refilling the jugs, um, you know, I go in the store, I'm coming out, walking to my truck to get the empty jugs to go to the little thing. As I'm walking to my truck, a car pulls up right next to the water filling thing. There's a, what's called a red box. You know what that is? It's a DVD rental thing. Yeah. So, car pulls up, a kid, maybe 12 years old, jumps out of the car, he starts like-

• 39:02Jocko Willink?

  Was he yoked?

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Doing, no, normal kid, whatever. And- From in the car, this thing, male, probably his dad, someone, maybe stepdad, really. And immediately the dad starts yelling at him. Like, "Just put it in, the thing." And just to the point where I thought he was kinda joking. Where, cause I'll joke with my daughter like that. You kinda like how you'll do sometimes? Yeah. And it sounded like a joke. But I was like, "Bro, this guy's serious." And the kid is like, you could tell he was kinda used to it. He was like, "I am, I'm doing, I'm trying, you know, whatever, whatever." And that kinda the whole parking lot could hear. And this is at nighttime. Just to give you a setting. So, I'm walking to my truck, I'm like, "Bro, if I get to this place and this guy's still there,

• 39:48Speaker 01

  not even yelling, I'm still there, I'm gonna have to say something." Not be a dick, not be like, "Hey, don't talk to it," like that. I'm gonna try to solve this problem. Be like, "Hey, this kid," you know, whatever, I had this little thing. Before I knew jujitsu or anything like that, I wouldn't have messed with it. I would've, even being like big or whatever and strong, I would've been like, "Oh, man, that sucks."

• 40:07Jocko Willink?

  Never know what that guy's got going on, yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know? But man, I was like, "Man, I'm gonna do this." So I grabbed her and they left, so I didn't get the opportunity. But I'm just saying, these are things that can happen on varying levels every day. And if you're in intellectual type, and I'm not saying if you're intellectual, but if you don't have these elements of whether it be skill or knowledge or whatever, like those things mess with you, you know? You're like, "Dang, I can't, I can't do it."

• 40:33Jocko Willink?

  And when I figured out what jujitsu was, when Master Chief Steve Bailey choked me, and he was, he was an old man at the time, probably three years younger than I am right now. And I was thinking to myself, "How did this guy just do this to me? That's insane, that's completely insane. I need to learn whatever he knows. Teach to me whatever you know, cause I don't wanna feel that way, ever."

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Bro, and then you're training it, like, let's say you train for five years. For five years, you're training not against people who don't know. You're training against people who do know. Dangerous people, who do know like how to defend your shit. And then you go in the real world.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have, this guy has no idea how much control you have over him, and you didn't even touch him.

• 41:12Jocko Willink?

  I see, yeah, that's, it's totally true.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  So, yeah, this, this whole thing where, I mean, you're, and that, your thing about, um, some guy was, the guy was, uh, his problem was like when people get in his face or whatever. His problem wasn't getting beat up, it was when people get in your face and how you react and how you feel and stuff. But that feeling, gone.

• 41:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, because you're right, you're a hundred percent right, because he said he wasn't scared of fighting. He was saying like, I might get in trouble, he was, he didn't like how he felt. He felt like he should do something and he felt like a wimp, basically. When you know that you can destroy someone, then it doesn't matter, you just think they're an idiot.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:47Jocko Willink?

  You beat them, you get the strength and the skills and you actually beat them on an intellectual level.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Boom, so it's like a double, double gravitational effect on that one.

• 41:59Jocko Willink?

  Alright.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  So, yeah, yeah, if you can get those three, in a, intellectual, psychological, whatever, mental, physical, and skill-wise defending yourself, bro, that's the, that's the three right there.

• 42:10Jocko Willink?

  It's good stuff.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  And that's just, just how hard you wanna hit it, really.

• 42:15Jocko Willink?

  You wanna hit it hard.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  I think so too, you know, it's very beneficial to hit it hard. Next wish.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Choco, should someone always be detached?

• 42:29Jocko Willink?

  Okay, straightforward question, uh, the answer is no. Someone shouldn't always be detached, because otherwise, you aren't enjoying anything in your life. So, don't always be attached, detached, no. But, at the same time, that being said, you should be aware, all the time, if you are getting sucked into the emotional vortex, right? You've gotta be aware of that. Once you have that awareness, you don't need to be detached all the time, at all. You can, I'm not always detached. At all, but, but I've got clear warning signs. When things start going sideways.

• 43:14Jocko Willink?

  And I start going down some vortex, I know immediately and I just detach. So it's really easy. It's but it does take practice. And eventually you realize that, you know, when you're feeling overwhelmed or when you're feeling emotional and you're feeling angry or you're feeling frustrated. When you start feeling those things and you've sensed them really quickly and you recognize them. You just detach, boom, you're done.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:36Jocko Willink?

  So that's what you gotta do. Start recognizing those red flags so that you can enjoy the good things. And when something starts getting crazy, you can detach.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's like an overall skill of being able to control when to detach and when you don't have to.

• 43:52Jocko Willink?

  Being able to identify.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:55Jocko Willink?

  When you need to detach.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:57Jocko Willink?

  Then being able to detach. Then you're good.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's like it's a matter of being capable of making an accurate beneficial choice.

• 44:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but the identification is the hard part.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:09Jocko Willink?

  People, what happens to people when they talk to me is they go, they after the fact, they realize I lost my temper and I did this.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:15Jocko Willink?

  Okay, you didn't detach in time and that's why you ended up there.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:19Jocko Willink?

  So, or I said some things to my, you know, my ex-girlfriend that I shouldn't have said because I got too emotional. Exactly. You didn't detach in time.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:28Jocko Willink?

  You got crazy and emotional. So the skill that you're missing is identifying when you're starting to get too emotional, whatever that emotion might be. Once you identify it, boom, detach.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:39Jocko Willink?

  Take control, then you can take control.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:41Jocko Willink?

  And make tactical moves.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:44Jocko Willink?

  Not emotional moves.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  That's ultimately the art, you know, to make the move. You know how like jujitsu guys, if they never take it.

• 44:50Jocko Willink?

  Actually, no, you know what? The moves, when you're emotionally detached, the moves actually aren't that hard. They're actually usually pretty obvious.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:57Jocko Willink?

  Like you're, you're in a fight with your girlfriend. And, and you're starting to go down the wrong lane, as soon as you detach, you go, oh, I know what I need to do. I should say I'm sorry and tell her that we can go to the restaurant that she wants to go to, or whatever, you know what I mean? The, the moves are not actually that hard, but we never make good moves when we're being emotional. Instead, we just go, no, I don't want to go to that restaurant. We went there three weeks in a row and I don't care if I said that to you. You deserved me to say that to you.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that, that's.

• 45:23Jocko Willink?

  You go down the wrong path.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  But what if somebody's like detached the whole time, even when problems don't arise, you know, like that?

• 45:29Jocko Willink?

  Then we don't have a relationship.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Right. That's what I mean. That's the problem too.

• 45:32Jocko Willink?

  That's what I'm saying. So you're not being detached all, all the time. That's what, that's the answer to the question.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Right. So it's like.

• 45:36Jocko Willink?

  You've reiterated it for everyone.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. That's what I'm here for. I think a lot of the time, you know how guys will ask you, hey, I want to learn jujitsu. I want to learn to mess people up. It's like, bro, that's not really what it is. Jitsu is having the skills to quote unquote mess people up. But what you learn ultimately is you put yourself in a position where you can make that decision. Is it time to mess someone up or not? You know, and you just have.

• 46:00Jocko Willink?

  The truth of the jujitsu.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  So that's really what it is.

• 46:03Jocko Willink?

  People that start with the vision of, I want to be able to mess people up, most people continue that, that do continue on the journey of jujitsu. Arrive at a point where they realize that they don't want to abuse this power that they now have. Most people.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:16Jocko Willink?

  There is a small percentage of people that don't, that are bullies. They were bullies when they started and they become more effective bullies.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:23Jocko Willink?

  More fearful, more, more fear in posing bullies.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:29Jocko Willink?

  Which sucks.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:30Jocko Willink?

  But jujitsu is power. That's why you're going to have some of it.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, agree. But compared to like a, I don't know, anything where it's like striking based or whatever. It's like you, it like, I've said this before, I'm not going to go deep in it, but you go from zero to 10. When you throw a strike, that's already at 10. You know, you can't just throw a light one and be like, okay, are we cool now? You know, kind of thing.

• 46:49Jocko Willink?

  Cause you're not cool.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 46:50Jocko Willink?

  You just slapped me in the face. We ain't cool at all.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  You brought it to 10, whether you knocked him out or not.

• 46:54Jocko Willink?

  It's funny because like I see, I see my kids and, and what you're talking about can happen very easily. When other people are in the group with my kids, I mean, cause they've been training jujitsu. So even like against any normal kid.

• 47:13Jocko Willink?

  There's no factor.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:15Jocko Willink?

  Like I see me and my son will be wrestling around with some kids, no factor.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:18Jocko Willink?

  And it's, you know, it's kinda cool.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, kinda cool.

• 47:21Jocko Willink?

  It's real cool, yeah.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  I see a little.

• 47:23Jocko Willink?

  You know, my kids aren't like jujitsu, like there's kids out there that are sick competitive jujitsu all the time.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:29Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:31Jocko Willink?

  That, that's not what I'm talking about, like just knowing jujitsu.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  A hundred percent correct, yes. And, but when I see kids doing jujitsu, especially like, I'm not saying in necessarily even in a tournament, I'm just saying in jujitsu in class, even at the beach or whatever, when I see them, bro, I'm like, man, I wish I could have done jujitsu when I was a little kid. You know how fun that would be?

• 47:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Man, it, yeah.

• 47:52Jocko Willink?

  Make up for it now.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  Trying. Next word. Jocko, I've been offered a job as a deputy sheriff. I have a few months before the position is actually open. I really want slash need to get into some jujitsu

• 48:07Speaker 01

  due to the nature of the job. The closest place to me is over an hour drive away.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, hard, hard.

• 48:13Jocko Willink?

  Harsh.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Finances are an issue when it comes to that kinda drive, plus fees to attend. My main question is, how do you feel about Gracie's online school? That's an option. If I were to find others who wanna learn, would this be effective?

• 48:28Jocko Willink?

  Uh, yes. So, here's what you need to do. Get some mats. You can make mats. You can get, you can get a piece of canvas from Home Depot or a piece of vinyl and string it between trees on the ground. You just have mats. You just made them. All over grass. That works. I've done it. I've trained on, there's a truck called a six-by in the military. It's a big giant, like a truck.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 48:57Jocko Willink?

  And it has, you, you've seen this in like your typical war movie, the truck with the canvas tarp over the back.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, Rambo.

• 49:02Jocko Willink?

  I've taken that thing off and that was my mat.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  On top of the truck?

• 49:07Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no, taken it off the top of the truck.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Oh, you took that canvas thing?

• 49:09Jocko Willink?

  Took that canvas off, put it on the ground. Guess what I got now? Jitsu mat, strong, put it in, put stakes in the ground. We're good to go.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:16Jocko Willink?

  It's canvas, but it's good to go. So, you do that. Then you get on YouTube. You get on YouTube. You know, Gracie Academy, uh, Marcelo Garcia Online, those are really good. I would actually start with YouTube, just like get some basics down, get some fundamentals, get, you need two, three, four friends. If you got a friend that wrestled, get him in there.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:37Jocko Willink?

  If you got a friend that did judo, get him in there. Um, and then you just start looking at the moves and fighting each other and trying to see what works. And don't go nuts on each other. Try and figure out what works, what doesn't work, learn the basic concepts. And then maybe Saturdays, maybe every other Saturday, maybe one Saturday a month. You drive an hour to the school with your buddies. You go in there. You say, hey, man, we live up in wherever, an hour away from here. If we give you 10 bucks, can we get on the mat, you know, this weekend?

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:06Jocko Willink?

  Just for, just for a couple hours. Can you, can you look at what we're doing? Maybe even say, hey, look, can the four of us get a private? We'll all give you 20 bucks. That's 80 bucks. You can make it an hour, coach, please. So then you get some detailed training and that's going to give you a base, you know? That's I think your best option.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully. And these, um, online, uh, you know, academies and stuff, that's essentially what they're made for. If you can't.

• 50:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's exactly what they're made for. Oh, yeah. If you can make it to academy, you go to the academy.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:34Jocko Willink?

  Wherever that academy is.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And I think.

• 50:37Jocko Willink?

  Podcast number six. We talk about what to look for in a jujitsu academy.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:42Jocko Willink?

  So go back to podcast number six. If you're starting jujitsu and you want to find a good academy, go back to podcast number six.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:48Jocko Willink?

  It's in there.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully. And I think to start, especially if you don't know jujitsu at all. I think a lot of us started jujitsu with watching UFC one, two, three, four, you know? So we kinda, after watching that, we kinda see, okay. I see if your mount, if you have a mount, that's good.

• 51:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  If you're on the bottom, guard. If you, you know, so you kinda pick up.

• 51:08Jocko Willink?

  So I, I didn't, I knew what jujitsu was, so I didn't get to experience trying to learn the basic moves from seeing on UFC. So I'm taking what you're telling me as factual. And it makes some sense, but so did you actually like compute? The positions, you were like, okay, that's the guard. So you must have watched in detail.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Well, no.

• 51:29Jocko Willink?

  You must have watched, you might have been like, okay, that guy, Hoist Gracie, that guy that's wearing that white thing. That white uniform, look what he's doing. He's got his legs closed around that guy. That's what you guys were doing.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Essentially, but the.

• 51:38Jocko Willink?

  Because even the announcers weren't calling it guard back then, were they?

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Uh, yes, there is a guy who's real nerdy guy and he was, that was UFC two, I want to say. Maybe even one, I forget which one was which, but yeah, he, he knew and you could tell he was like kind of prideful that he would train with Horian or whatever. But he goes, see now Hoist is going to pull him in between his guard, like that's, you know, rudimentary. But he knew and he was like, okay, he's going to mount and it was real repetitive because he'd do the same thing. So yeah, you, you essentially, if you're paying attention, you learn guard. You don't learn how to do an arm bar, how to, you know.

• 52:08Jocko Willink?

  Well, when I teach kids sometimes, I'll just say, you want, for like, let's say a kid's been training for a day, it's their first day. You want to keep your legs around them.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 52:17Jocko Willink?

  That's guard. They don't even know what they're doing. And then you say the other kid, you want to get away from their, or get around their legs.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:24Jocko Willink?

  And so they just try and do it. And that's a pretty cool way to start things off. And you'd be surprised at what kids will instinctively do.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:31Jocko Willink?

  To make things happen there.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you, even at the muster, you know how you explain it just real quick? Like you're, okay, this is mount, this is why it's important, this guard, this is why it's important. That's really, like the other day, um, at, there was a new girl in there, her name's Sarah. I remember that because, you know, I know someone else named Sarah, but anyway. Uh, Adam, it was time to roll rounds. He was like, hey, Adam was like, hey, you know, there's some new people here.

• 52:55Jocko Willink?

  Smasher.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  No day, zero days, whatever, um, experience, can you, I don't know, teach her something? You know, as the rounds are going on, because I didn't have a partner at that time, came in late, whatever. But, so I went and I did essentially that, just a crash course. This is mount, this is guard, this is, uh, uh, side mount. You know, and this is the importance of each one. And then this is, literally takes five minutes. So here's the importance of everyone and then I do a little quiz at the end. I say, okay, boom, boom, we fight. It's like a half speed. We fight, boom, we fall to the ground. Where do you want to be?

• 53:27Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  And you know, so it's like a little quiz and boom, right there, that five minutes, you learn everything that I learned from watching UFC. One, two, three, but in a more specific.

• 53:36Jocko Willink?

  And you were studying them and you were trying to figure it out. But yeah, you can learn it in five minutes from somebody showing it to you.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Exactly right. If that's what they're teaching you. A lot of times people will go in on their first day and some academies, if they're dope, they'll have an introductory class, which is kind of that. It's called introductory class. But if you're like, hey, this is my first day, let me see what I can learn, then they'll learn like some, um, you know, omoplat or something and they're like, wait, whoa, I don't know how this even makes sense to, to me, you know?

• 54:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  But if you learn that crash course, um, or you know, even going to the muster, that's why it's so cool. You, you go over that and everyone's like, dang, this is cool. You can leave that and now you're way better off.

• 54:10Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's funny at the muster is everyone has heard us talk about jujitsu. So they have this anticipation of it being really cool. And then when they connect the dots between like, okay, you learn the mount and then you learn the guard and then you learn the sit up sweep. And when you're done with the sit up sweep, you're, you're from the guard, you're back in the mount. And people are like, it's a miracle. It's a miracle. There's the magic.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. And it's essentially before the actual moves, like doing the moves. It's just, you have to know what's important, what's not. Like if you mount on someone, just by happenstance, you don't know what mount is or the importance of mount. But if you wind up on the mount, you're trying to punch the guy, I'm saying in the fight. You're trying to punch the guy and trying to do damage, trying to win the fight. But punching the guy is not what you should be focused on primarily. It should be keeping the mount.

• 54:58Jocko Willink?

  Maintain the position.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Exactly right. But no one's going to automatically know that's not, you know, you're trying to beat up the guy. I'm on top. I can punch him. Let me punch him. But no, it's just one of the many examples.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Jocko, my boss is incredibly controlling and egomaniacal.

• 55:19Jocko Willink?

  I like him already.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Egomaniac, huh?

• 55:25Speaker 01

  I have, I've attempted to use extreme ownership in dealing with the people under me, but my boss has reprimanded me for leading. He has said he gets, he gets to do all the leading because he's the one in charge, quote unquote, and, and his job title is higher than mine. I've had that happen to me before, by the way. If I could continue to try to lead, my responsibilities will be taken away. If I step back into the shadows, I won't make an impact on the people under me. What should I do?

• 55:54Jocko Willink?

  So it's black and white?

• 55:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:56Jocko Willink?

  Right, in his mind?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Seems that way.

• 55:58Jocko Willink?

  You can either step up and lead and get fired, or step in the shadows and do nothing. And everyone will suffer. It's not, it's not that way, right? It's not, it's not black and white. And actually start by putting your own ego in check. Cause you're calling someone egomaniacal, but your, your ego is being, being touched a little bit here. Being rubbed the wrong way a little bit because you want to lead and when you get told, "Don't lead," you get, it offends you.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:27Jocko Willink?

  Guess what that is?

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Your ego.

• 56:29Jocko Willink?

  That's your ego. So what you need to do is maybe you like, you like the feeling of being in charge. That's cool. I like the feeling of being in charge. It feels good to me. It feels normal to me. When I'm not in charge, I don't like it. I have to consciously suppress it, which is fine. Sometimes you have to do that. Like right in this situation here that this guy's talking about. And what you need to suppress is you need to not be so overt with your leadership. He shouldn't even be able to sense that you're leading, but you should be leading. You gotta be under the radar. You gotta be covert with what you're doing. And by the, while you're doing that, you're massaging homeboy's ego. Making him feel good about it. Making him feel that he is running things.

• 57:16Jocko Willink?

  And because because you can absolutely lead from the shadows if your ego allows it. Because a lot of times when we want, when we lead, we want everyone to know that we're leading.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:28Jocko Willink?

  I want everyone to know that I'm in charge. I want them to know that I'm the man, right? That's really hard. When you're leading from the shadows, a lot of times, not even the people that you're leading recognize overtly that you're leading. Think about that. So the people that are actually following you don't even know that they're following you. They don't, they don't consciously know it. Maybe if they were to break down and you give, give them like a, hey, who do you think is actually giving you instructions? They go, well, I think that might be probably that seems like it's echo. Okay, okay. But they don't like consciously think about it.

• 58:03Jocko Willink?

  So that's what you need to do. You need to suppress your overt leadership. Not step on the boss's toes, massage his leader, massage his ego a little bit. Because if you do get your response, you want to help, right? You want to be helpful? You want to lead these people in a great way? If you don't, if you get your responsibilities taken away or you get fired, then you can't help anyone, anybody. You're not going to help the team at all. So you have to be smart and you have to play the game to win his confidence and his trust. So he does let you lead. And what's going to do that? When he realizes that you're not going to step on his toes, that you're going to give him the credit? Cause he wants the credit. He's an egomaniac, right? He's controlling. So that's

• 58:46Jocko Willink?

  kind of what you need to do now. This is the weird thing, and this came up at the muster. People don't want to hear me say that. People don't want to hear me say that. People don't want to hear me say that if I come up against a boss with a big ego, what you need to do is back down. People don't want to hear me say that. They, they want to hear me say, if you come up against someone with a big ego, what you do is you bow up to them and you show them that they ain't got nothing on you.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't back down to that.

• 59:17Jocko Willink?

  Don't back down to that guy with a big ego. That's weak.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  Yo, that's true.

• 59:21Jocko Willink?

  And, and when I said at the muster, I said, I said, listen, because I could see it. I could see it. People are like, oh, yeah, I guess Jocko isn't always as hardcore as I thought he was. Cause he's going to back down to somebody with a big ego. And I said, guess what, people? This is why you feel that way.

• 59:38Jocko Willink?

  If there was a, a machine gun nest on a hill. And there was a bad guy in there and he's killing a bunch of people, shooting that machine gun. And everyone in the room wants to look at Jocko. And say Jocko's brave and Jocko's tough and Jocko's gonna charge that machine gun nest. And take that guy out.

• 59:58Jocko Willink?

  Well, guess what? A machine gun, belt fed weapon in an elevated position, bunkered in. I'm not gonna take that guy out. I can't. It's a heavily defended position. I can't do that. So what Jocko does is backs down. I hide. I get behind cover so I don't die. Once I've gotten behind cover so I don't die, I look at Echo and I say, Echo. Stay here, shoot some rounds at this guy occasionally, distract him. I'm gonna flank him. So Echo's gonna keep undercover himself. He's gonna pling some rounds up at the machine gun nest.

• 1:00:39Jocko Willink?

  While he's doing that, I'm gonna scurry away like a little baby, like a little sneaky little squirrel.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:44Jocko Willink?

  And I'm gonna go around to the flank. Cause the machine gun is in a bunker, right? So he can't see out the sides. I'm coming up the side. I'm gonna get right up the side, I'm gonna toss a grenade in there and kill him. I'm gonna take out the ego. But I didn't do it going head on. So what happens is people coming up, up against this big ego. And they wanna be the hero and they wanna be aggressive and they wanna the default aggressive Jocko. You say, you, you got a chapter in your book, default aggressive, man. I'm gonna be default aggressive against that ego. Wrong answer. The right answer is indirect warfare. The right answer is maneuver warfare. The right answer is you flank these people.

• 1:01:26Jocko Willink?

  And by the way, if I do charge that machine gun nest, or I do attack that guy's ego, guess what? I die or I get fired and now I'm no good to anybody. So it's, people have this, this desire. To be the strong hero. And you have to fight that. That's your ego. That's my ego charging the machine gun nest. I'm gonna go do this. I'm the man. No, I'm actually not the man. It's a machine gun, an elevated position. I'm gonna die. You have to be smart.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, like on uh-

• 1:01:56Jocko Willink?

  Don't attack the ego head on, don't attack def- heavily defended positions head on, period.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Like you said in Training Day, you ever watch that movie? Training Day?

• 1:02:04Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Come on, bro, you watched it. Anyway, he says, "This shit is chess, not checkers."

• 1:02:11Jocko Willink?

  He's not the first person that ever said that, bro.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  I know, but it was dope when he said it, in my opinion. Nonetheless, yeah, so default aggressive isn't default aggressive head to head, it's default ag- default aggressive in being effective.

• 1:02:24Jocko Willink?

  Yes, yes, it is.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  That's really your effective or ineffective at the end of the day.

• 1:02:27Jocko Willink?

  I can see you've been to the muster.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  I've been, you know, I listen. Leif knows what he's talking about.

• 1:02:32Jocko Willink?

  I like that.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, it's good.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Choco.

• 1:02:37Jocko Willink?

  Is this next question?

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  Yes. "How do you shift your mindset from individual contributor to manager? Growing a company from nothing to something required being an individual contributor and getting a lot done with a little. But as we grow, it's clear that I need to hire people for specific roles and accept the- accept that I can't do everything. I'm very used to getting stuff done and doing everything myself, and it feels a little weird trusting someone else to do it. How can I shift my mindset to appreciate being a manager over an individual contributor?"

• 1:03:10Jocko Willink?

  So, uh, straight up out of the gate, you are actually failing as a leader by doing what you're doing. By- by do- by- by continuing to do things yourself, get in the weeds and not let people lead, you're actually failing as a leader and therefore failing the team. So, number one, you have to watch out for that. And, you know, by the way, that means the more time that you spend in the weeds getting stuff done yourself because you're so perfect, that's the less time that you're thinking about strategy, that's the less time that you're thinking about, you know, what's gonna happen tomorrow and future operations and that's not good to be in that situation. So.

• 1:03:55Jocko Willink?

  First of all, you need to build the trust with these people. You don't have to give 100% trust to someone out of the gate. If I, if we're in a company and I hire you and I'm gonna have you doing some task, that doesn't mean I say, "Hey Echo, here's the task, go do it," and now I'm just gonna walk away. I don't even know you. I don't know how well you can do the task. So I'm gonna say, "Hey Echo, here's the task. Actually, watch me do it. Okay, you've seen me do it. Now, I'm gonna watch you do it. Okay, cool. You seem to be doing that pretty well. I'm gonna come check on you in two hours. See how it's going. Come back two hours. Next day, I check you once every five hours. Next day, I check you in the morning and I check you once in the afternoon. Next day,

• 1:04:36Jocko Willink?

  I just check you at lunchtime. Maybe two, three, four days later, I check you once every other day. Pretty soon, you're good to go. And guess what I'm doing? I'm doing something else. Doing something that I should be doing. I built the trust. I confirm that you know how to do it. I, you trust me because now I trust you. We're building some team and some relationship. So that's all good. So, to the original point, the, I think the way that you shift your mindset is to recognize that micromanagement is actually failure. No progress is made while you're micromanaging. The longer you are micromanaging someone, the longer it takes for them to develop as a human being and

• 1:05:16Jocko Willink?

  as a useful person in your organization. Every minute that you micromanage someone is a minute of them not thinking for themselves. Is a minute for them not taking ownership of something. If I'm micromanaging your task, you're not taking ownership of it. If you're not taking ownership of it, we know where that leads. So, let people learn. Let people lead. And to not do that is failing. Don't fail.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  One time when I was young, in Hawaii, you get your driver's license at 15. I don't know how, what it is now. That was a long time ago, obviously. But I learned to drive with my dad before that, you know, when we were young, we'd get in quite this dirt roads everywhere. So he's like, "Hey," you know, and it started with when we were young, when we were young, young, like... Seven, eight years old, we'd sit on his lap. So he'd do the shifting and the gas and the braking, stuff like that. Dirt roads, we'd just do the steering. That's what it kind of started with. Then, after a while, he's like, okay, now we're just gonna learn how to do this. You know, it was a manual stick shift. So he was like, okay, now you just learn how to go.

• 1:06:23Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  And now it's go and shift gears, all on the dirt road, whatever. And so I was like, just turned fifteen, or maybe even fourteen. And he was like, hey, um, he's like, all right, let's go drive. You know, usually it'd be like, we were going to the beach on the way home. Hey, let's take this dirt road, you can steer, kind of thing. But this was actually like, okay, let's go drive. So I'm like, all right. But he plops me in the front seat and he goes, all right, take us there. And we were going wherever we were going, down to the beach. He's like, all right, take us there. I was like, dang, I don't know, bro, I've steered before, I've shifted. I haven't done the whole thing all at once, but he was sitting right there. He just said, take us there. I was like, dope. I took, took him there, whatever. He didn't critique much, you know? But I got there and he just kind of let it happen.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  It was the same kind of thing where first he's checking my steering. Then he's checking, this is over time, though, good years.

• 1:07:13Jocko Willink?

  Kind of dialed.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  And yeah, after a while, it's like, boom, he still has an eye, he's still managing, he's right there.

• 1:07:18Jocko Willink?

  He could slide his foot over to the brake if he needed to, I guess.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  If needed, yeah.

• 1:07:22Jocko Willink?

  Put his hand on the wheel, steer you away from the oncoming truck.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  If need be, yeah. And at the same time, he's letting me make little micro mistakes.

• 1:07:29Jocko Willink?

  I hit the curb a little bit.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, or. It was more like, you know, stick shift, you know, you do it too much, or, yeah. Uh, and he let that happen. He, cause that's my thing to figure out, the feel, cause each car is different.

• 1:07:41Jocko Willink?

  And that's cool, because that's actually good. Uh, one time, we were going on an operation, my first deployment to Iraq. And we were driving a far distances through cities we'd never been through before. And we got turned around in the city. And we were, had a far way to go to our objective. It was a kind of a high-profile operation. And we're, we stop. And I hear the call on the radio, like, I'll stop. And I say something along the lines of, you know, what's up? And you know, the, the, the point man, which is the lead nav in the vehicles.

• 1:08:24Jocko Willink?

  He comes up on the radio, he's like, uh, just, I'm trying to get my bearings. Little stress in the voice. I walk up, so I get out of my vehicle, just to make sure, and this guy's one of my bros. And I walk up to the vehicle and he's in there. And I could see he's, he's flustered. He's flustered and he's, uh, you know, um, I don't want to say embarrassed, but he's flustered and now I'm there.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Jocko Willink?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:53Jocko Willink?

  And I think his thoughts are Jocko's, you know, Jocko's gonna be mad or whatever.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:00Jocko Willink?

  And I, I go up and he's, he, he's, cracks open the door, right? I open the door on the Humvee. And I go, you know, what's up, man? Just in the most mellow voice I've ever, I go, hey, what's up, man? He goes, I, I, I don't know where we are. And I was like, cool, man, what's that security? Let me know when you got it dialed. And he's like, alright, cool. And that's what we did.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  So cool.

• 1:09:25Jocko Willink?

  And it took, like, you could see his face, like, he, he just turned back to the computer, he started working. But when I walked up to him, you know, you could see that he was panicking. Because, you know, you got, we had a bunch of vehicles, you know, you got seven vehicles with us and, and they're all driving around and now you've done two laps around, it's not fun. And there's, and you know, you, you make it through and like, pass the enemy one time, you got away with it.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  Cool, yeah.

• 1:09:48Jocko Willink?

  Now you went by him three times?

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Pushing it, son.

• 1:09:50Jocko Willink?

  Not cool. And everyone in the whole troop is sitting there in the vehicle, it's going, hold on, jackass is gonna run us by this checkpoint again or by this thing again, yeah.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  All of us.

• 1:10:00Jocko Willink?

  So, but yeah, I just went up, hey, bro, wha- what's going on? I'm just trying to, I, I don't know where we're at.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10:07Jocko Willink?

  We're gonna set security, let me know when you got it figured out, we'll be good.

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  So good, man. And that's, bruh, that's so good on you because you know everyone is feeling the stress, like what you're saying.

• 1:10:16Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  It was like, dang, where's this guy leading us? What the hell, does he not know what? I'm sure everyone was feeling that.

• 1:10:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Then it's like, alright, I gotta kind of detach from that feeling and goes, you know, dang.

• 1:10:26Jocko Willink?

  And, uh, and then, you know, I got on the radio, so, cause that was, you know, I just said, uh, I said the guy's name, I'm like, hey, just getting it sorted out right now, we're gonna be rolling here in about a few minutes when we, when we know where we're at. And everyone's, you know, set security, boom, done. There was another time we got ambushed on that same deployment.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:10:43Jocko Willink?

  And I was in vehicle number two and we were in a big convoy and the ambush pretty much was aimed at the center and then the back of the convoy. So a bunch of machine gun fire, a bunch of RPGs and nothing really hit. And in fact, nothing did hit. The RPGs went over us. And, and I was, I would never say much on the radio, right?

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:11:04Jocko Willink?

  And the guy in the back vehicle, uh, he's actually the platoon chief. But I, I say I didn't say much, but clearly we just got ambushed. I mean, there was a massive machine gun fire and explosions going off. And we pow, you know, we go through the, we continue on and the platoon chief in the back, he says something on the radio, something along the lines of, he's like, you know, comes up on the radio, he's like, hey, Jocko, you know, we, we just got hit with an ambush back here. And I got on the radio and I was like, Roger.

• 1:11:36Jocko Willink?

  And, and you know, it's like, it's it, you know, and everyone goes, okay, I guess we're all right. It's like all good, all good in the hood.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  Ah, you guys are crazy, man. I think you did me like that one day. Yes. In fact, when I say I think, I mean, I remember the time you did me. Okay. So I was, I'm forgive me right now. You just talked about an actual ambush that actually happened. I'm talking about something way less impactful. Just bear with me.

• 1:12:00Jocko Willink?

  At least you're asking for forgiveness before you tell a grocery store.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  It was actually this podcast, we had recorded like a week or something early. So I was like, boom, let me finish the whole thing. Get it ready to get pushed out. All I need, it was done. All I had to do is press the, the button to make it live. That's all I had to do. And this was like a week, I think it might've even been two weeks in advance.

• 1:12:22Jocko Willink?

  Wow, those are the good old days.

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  But, um, and then the day came, it was so done and out of my mind. The day came and I was just like, hey, I don't, I don't know. It's not on my mind. So the long story short, I, I didn't do it. So.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  I didn't press publish, it was ready to go. Anyway, so I wake up in the morning and I see a message. A bunch of Twitter posts. I understand that, but I got a text message. I think there might even been a phone call. Oh, no, no, it was a phone call and a text message from you. I was like, this, you know, this is, this is something, you know? I'm like, alright.

• 1:12:59Jocko Willink?

  Did you know what it was?

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  No, I had no idea. It was out of my mind. I was like, oh, something, obviously, you know, I get it this early in the morning, by the way. You know? So I look at it, um, and, so I listened to the voice message first and it was you all coming like, "Hey, how's it going? Good morning."

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  So he goes, "Um, just to sort of let you know, it's Wednesday. You know, we have that podcast we recorded that's, you know, that's supposed to be going on right now. So whenever you can, whenever you're ready, go ahead and post that." And I was like, fuck. But it wasn't like all the Twitter posts, "Where's the podcast, bro? Where's the podcast, slacker?" You know, all that. And then there's Jocko's like, "Hey, whenever you're ready, it's all good."

• 1:13:41Jocko Willink?

  I didn't know what happened, maybe you're under more stress.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  Hey, never know.

• 1:13:44Jocko Willink?

  You gotta think, when you're in a leadership position, not that I'm like the leader here, but if you're in a leadership position, you don't know what someone else is going through. Maybe you had some technical issue and I'm like, gonna call you up and be like, "Where's that thing?" And now you freak out even more. I don't need to make it any worse. There's something going on, like you were sleeping or whatever. I didn't want, you know? But you always think about the perspective of the other person that you're dealing with and you don't want to escalate things. That's not gonna help. Just de-escalate. "Hey, man, just wondering what's up if you need anything from me on the podcast. Maybe we need to re-record it. I don't know, no big deal. Let me know, I'll be over." That's what we're here for.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Kind of like what two people shouting at each other and you chime in, "Say, stop drowning!" And you're shouting. You got three people shouting. Messing it up. Anyway, next question.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  Jocko, I'm not sure I agree with your statements not to pursue belts in jujitsu. It doesn't seem wrong to me to benchmark success using a rise in rank as a quantifiable measure of success. As a person is working to master their craft, any craft, it's nice to have markers for accomplishment and engagement. Why have belts? Why have belts if they're not to be strived for? Or why have them, right?

• 1:15:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and that's actually a little conversation I had. That as soon as he asked me this, this is with Brandon, you know, Brandon Pickworth. He's been around like since day one in the game here. And we were going back and forth on something. He said, he actually sent me this random, because he sent me texts about stuff, you know, whatever, we're doing some projects and whatnot. And he sent me this random thing. Well, I guess it's random to me, it was random to him. Maybe he just listened to a podcast where we were talking about this, but he said, you know, hey, I don't know, you know, I don't know what to do with this stuff about belts. And so, and by the way, Brandon is, had a goal of doing 100 burpees in 10 minutes.

• 1:15:45Jocko Willink?

  Brandon is in good shape, he's an athlete, athletic dude. And for some reason, he can't do 100 burpees in 10 minutes. I don't know where he's at right now, we are publicly calling him out to post his, you know.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  Video.

• 1:15:58Jocko Willink?

  Video.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  No cuts.

• 1:15:59Jocko Willink?

  No cuts. Or maybe he doesn't have to post the whole thing. I'd take his word for it, because he's owned it a bunch of times. He'll put like, he'll do 100 in, or no, I think what he's been doing, he's been doing 10 minutes worth. However many he can do. He gets like 84.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:16Jocko Willink?

  And he'll post it like, hey, I did 84 in 10 minutes.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Well, that you can do 10 sets of 10.

• 1:16:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, 10 sets of 1, 10 every, 10 every minute.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, or something. It'd have to be less because actual burpees will take a certain amount of time. Yeah.

• 1:16:28Jocko Willink?

  No, I'm telling you, 10 in a minute is not that hard.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but plus your rest.

• 1:16:35Jocko Willink?

  10 burpee pull-ups in a minute is harder. But still a good measure, so just regular burpees.

• 1:16:44Jocko Willink?

  But back to the conversation.

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  Sure, I'm gonna try that by the way, okay.

• 1:16:47Jocko Willink?

  So, Brandon hit me up and, and you know, I understand belts. You know, and it's just because we've said on here like, don't worry about belts, don't worry about the belts, the belts are gonna come. I understand belts and I understand trying to earn a rank and that's cool, but I'm telling you, at some point, and I think this will happen to everybody,

• 1:17:13Jocko Willink?

  at some point, jujitsu becomes a lot more than just belts. And eventually, the jujitsu itself

• 1:17:23Jocko Willink?

  completely bypasses what the belts are and what the belts mean. Now, I could, you could say back to me like, well, that's because you're a black belt. And so that's why you feel that way, because of course they don't matter to you, you're already a black belt, so you, you know, but the fact is, that, that didn't happen to me at black belt, that happened to me at like, purple belt. I think about midway of my purple belt time, I had no care whatsoever of what belt color I was. This is literally zero. And I just wanted to get better, I just wanted to know more, I just wanted to keep training and never even thought about it after that. And like, even like, degrees on your, on your black belt.

• 1:18:06Jocko Willink?

  Like Pete, I was talking to Pete Roberts the other day, and he's like, well, what degree are you? You know, he's a black belt, I'm a black belt. He's like, what degree are you? And I was like, I don't know.

• 1:18:15Jocko Willink?

  I don't know, I got my black belt in 2005. What does that mean? You know what I mean? Like, I don't have the tape on there with how many degrees I am. Not that I don't respect it, but I just don't care, for me personally. So, and, and I think that this isn't, like he's, like Brandon's talking about, you know, to master any craft. I think it's the same with any craft that you're trying to master. If you're trying to master the craft. Hopefully and eventually the craft itself becomes more important than the rank that comes with being skilled at the craft.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Jocko Willink?

  That's what I would hope for. That's what, by the way, that also makes it a lot easier to keep pursuing. Because I don't care. I'm not sitting there going, I hope I get a stripe on my belt today. No, I don't care if I get a stripe on my belt. I want to go learn more.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:03Jocko Willink?

  And guess what's going to propel you towards more stripes? Wanting to learn more.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:08Jocko Willink?

  Wanting more stripes does not propel you towards getting more stripes. What propels you towards getting more stripes and getting advanced in any craft is getting better at that craft. So focus on getting better at the craft.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:19:19Jocko Willink?

  The belts are gonna come.

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:19:21Jocko Willink?

  Even your belt's gonna come one day.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Preach it. I'm not concerned with belts.

• 1:19:27Jocko Willink?

  We're glad you're not, because you ain't got much in your future.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, yeah, and I think that this, it's like a matter of perspective, K. First off, you being a black belt and thinking that or whatever and be like, yeah, that's easy. It seems like that's obvious that, oh, it's easy for you to say because you're a black belt, but at the same time, it doesn't kind of go along with that detachment thing. It's like, hey, I'm not in the game. There's no reason for me to be striving for any belt right now. So I can be detached. I'm not emotionally invested in the whole situation. I can look back and at the same time, understand when I came up, me being focused on belts would not have got me here.

• 1:20:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  You know, like you have that clear vision. Hey, that's natural. It's a natural thing to be like a blue belt. And I wish I could wear that purple belt and everyone would know me and respect me as a purple belt and I'll be.

• 1:20:13Jocko Willink?

  I'm tapping some of the purple belts right now.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and bro, do you, this is a side note. I don't know if you know this, but if you know the feeling of wanting that purple belt really bad and I just want that purple belt. And your skills from your person, from your instructor standpoint, don't match purple belt and promotion time comes along and you're, okay, this is it. I might get my, and you don't get that purple belt, bro. You know how sad you're gonna be?

• 1:20:38Jocko Willink?

  Real sad.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  I had, I've known people that quit the gym straight up because they didn't get bel- uh promoted on a, on a certain day.

• 1:20:44Jocko Willink?

  And you know what that is? They, they, that's really sad.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  It is, it's sad from top to bottom, for sure. That's a side note, but.

• 1:20:51Jocko Willink?

  I guess sad wasn't even the right word. Well, it's sad for them.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:55Jocko Willink?

  Like, cause if you, if you're in that zone where you should be getting your purple belt at some time, maybe this promotion, maybe next promotion, maybe some other promotion. That means you're dedicated to jiu-jitsu and now you're just gonna walk away because you didn't get the belch.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, yeah, it's rough. And like I said, like that state of mind can really, really jam you up. Yeah, man, true story. And I've heard of people where they didn't get their belt and then maybe someone else did, not maybe, straight up, other people did. And it was their belt, you know, like they're, and super mad to the point where they're vocal about it. I tapped that guy out. Why did he get his belt? Openly saying that. So, yeah, it's, it'll jam you up, just that whole mindset.

• 1:21:31Jocko Willink?

  One thing, you know, I would say to those people that might be thinking that way. From my perspective and from many jiu-jitsu instructors, the, the, you're, you're advancing and you're getting promoted. Based on your potential, not based on your skill level to, because you start with people.

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:50Jocko Willink?

  Because you, you might be, you, you might not have a lot of potential. And so you know what? Hey, man, the guy's, you know, he can't train. He's, you know, 68 years old. And he's been training for a year and a half. He's learned a lot of knowledge. He's here all the time. He can't tap out any other blue belts. We're giving him his blue belt. Because for potential of him as a 68-year-old man that never worked out before, now he's training jiu-jitsu, dude, that guy's a blue belt.

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22Jocko Willink?

  Um, now the further you go up, you know, black belt is a little bit more serious. Uh, so is brown, so is purple, but I'm saying. You're getting judged against yourself and that's an extreme example.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  By someone else, by the way, not by yourself. You're being judged by your instructor, not yourself.

• 1:22:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's right. That's right.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  So, yeah, man, and that's the, and that's a important thing to understand.

• 1:22:42Jocko Willink?

  What's, you're, to your point, everything that we're talking about right now makes jiu-jitsu suck. Right? It makes you like, it makes you, it'll make you mad, it'll make you frustrated, it'll make you, it'll make it political and this guy got it and I didn't know, that's not, for me, I just don't even like that stuff.

• 1:22:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:58Jocko Willink?

  You know, don't even like that stuff. So, uh, when you're ready, your instructor's gonna promote you.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:04Jocko Willink?

  Until then, keep training.

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and.

• 1:23:07Jocko Willink?

  And by the way, also, in your work skills, when you're ready to get promoted, you'll get promoted.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:13Jocko Willink?

  And if you're not ready, you won't, or there's not an opening, you won't. You know what you do to solve that? Don't get frustrated, don't get all crazy, don't blame the guy that did get promoted, don't undermine him.

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:25Jocko Willink?

  You know what you do? Keep kicking ass.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:23:27Jocko Willink?

  Wait, next time it'll be your turn.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:23:29Jocko Willink?

  Enjoy what you're doing, master your craft.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:23:33Jocko Willink?

  Don't let your craft become your master.

• 1:23:37Jocko Willink?

  I just said that.

• 1:23:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, dang, I liked it.

• 1:23:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and that's what happens, right?

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:42Jocko Willink?

  You let the thing control you, instead of you controlling the thing, instead of you mastering it, it's starting to master you and getting your head bad.

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  But he does make a good point, and here's the thing, is that this is a mix of perspectives, so where, um, or a clashing of perspectives, where he's like, are, you know, as a person working to master their craft, any craft is nice to have markers for accomplishment and engagement, it's true.

• 1:24:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and you know what I actually texted back to him? I'm like, hey, man, I know I'm not normal.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Jocko Willink?

  I'm not normal.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:11Jocko Willink?

  And all I need is a rock and a hill.

• 1:24:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:14Jocko Willink?

  That's what I texted to him and he laughed, right?

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:24:16Jocko Willink?

  But, so, so there are normal people that need to have like, I want a goal, I wanna see, I wanna have a checkpoint, and that's okay.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:25Jocko Willink?

  And that's why, guess what? There are belts in jujitsu, and you can get served, I don't, we don't really give a lot of stripes out at Victory, like me, Jeff Glover, Dean Lister, Craig, James, I mean, we'll give out like, occasional stripes, you know, for various reasons, but most of the time, it's like, oh, the guy's ready for his next belt.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:46Jocko Willink?

  Let's give it to him.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and usually the stripes are, that's a subtle thing, in my opinion, like I've, stripes don't reflect much compared to what belts do, you know? Nonetheless, I mean, yeah, cool.

• 1:24:56Jocko Willink?

  Back in the day, you'd see like a four stripe blue belt.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:00Jocko Willink?

  That guy was the deal.

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  I guess, I don't know. But he's saying.

• 1:25:06Jocko Willink?

  You know, and you know what to to degrade what you're saying and what Brandon's saying? You know, when we do a lot of stripes and a lot of different colored belts, kids.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:15Jocko Willink?

  Cause kids need that.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  That's gonna be the point, yeah.

• 1:25:16Jocko Willink?

  And as a grown ass adult, Brandon.

• 1:25:21Jocko Willink?

  No, as a grown man, you should be like, I'm just here to learn.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:24Jocko Willink?

  Here to get after it.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Well, to me, what he's saying doesn't clash with what you're saying, in my opinion.

• 1:25:28Jocko Willink?

  No. And the other thing with Brandon is, Brandon is, you know, I don't know him that well, but you know, we go back and forth a lot. He's a guy that's like metric driven, you know, like I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna get that. And that's awesome. That's what makes him successful and in what he does and the craft that he has mastered. Very successful, but he likes to have those.

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:49Jocko Willink?

  Those measurements.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:50Jocko Willink?

  He likes to have metrics to go off and say, look, I just crushed this, this goal. Boom, done.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:54Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 1:25:55Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, and so with belts is gonna be a little bit different, just like with promotions and, you know, based on skill. So you, he says it's nice to have markers. And here's the thing, it is nice, of course, after, after when you got your black belt. For you to say, I don't care the fact that I got this black belt, I don't care about that at all. I don't know if I would believe that.

• 1:26:14Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no, you're, you'd be correct.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:16Jocko Willink?

  You'd be correct. I was, I was stoked, you know?

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  It's just a matter of what you're striving for.

• 1:26:20Jocko Willink?

  Dean kinda surprised me too, like I wasn't expecting it.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:26:23Jocko Willink?

  Which should tell you something.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:26:24Jocko Willink?

  I wasn't in there like, tonight's probably gonna be the big night. No, I, I like showed up at the gym and trained or whatever. And then all of a sudden it was special ceremony time and I got the black belch.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:35Jocko Willink?

  And I was stoked for sure.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:37Jocko Willink?

  I was stoked, but you know what's funny is like at the team? Like people, people like, I don't know who heard about it, but people like, hey man, I heard you got your black belt. And I was like, yeah, yeah. But I didn't tell anyone.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:26:49Jocko Willink?

  I wasn't like, hey, everyone, I got my black belt.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:53Jocko Willink?

  You know?

• 1:26:55Jocko Willink?

  You know what, you know what belt I cared the most about was my purple belt?

• 1:26:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:59Jocko Willink?

  When I got my purple belt, I was super pumped.

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:03Jocko Willink?

  At that time, it was a big deal.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:05Jocko Willink?

  Getting your purple belt, I got my purple belt from Fabio Santos.

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:08Jocko Willink?

  He wasn't giving away them purple belts either.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:27:11Jocko Willink?

  Back in the day, you had to earn that thing.

• 1:27:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know what, and I don't know, because obviously I wasn't there at that time, but I think it's always gonna be like that. If you get a purple belt, that's a big deal, even now. It seems like that's a big deal.

• 1:27:25Jocko Willink?

  Definitely a big deal.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  Because there's just so many people now doing jiu jitsu.

• 1:27:28Jocko Willink?

  No, purple belt, purple belt is a legitimate, when you're a purple belt, you will not lose in a fight to a normal person.

• 1:27:36Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:27:37Jocko Willink?

  In my opinion. Or could you get caught with a ponchi asher?

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:40Jocko Willink?

  But a normal, you know, you've got a very high, high percentage of winning a fight against a normal person if you are a purple belt in jiu jitsu.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:48Jocko Willink?

  A good purple belt.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:49Jocko Willink?

  Meaning not someone that just like got a purple belt for no reason.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 1:27:53Jocko Willink?

  If you're a real purple belt jiu jitsu, I mean, a purple belt, you're rolling, like when I roll with a purple belt, it's a good roll.

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:59Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's a good roll. It's not like, oh, this guy's just a purple belt.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28:03Jocko Willink?

  Blue belt, most blue belts, you don't have to worry about much of anything.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:10Jocko Willink?

  When you're at a higher level.

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 1:28:12Jocko Willink?

  I mean, you're not worrying when you're rolling with most blue belts, right?

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  I'm worried when I roll with everybody.

• 1:28:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, no, no, no, worried?

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I'm just joking. Yeah, I dig it, and it's not about me winning or losing.

• 1:28:24Jocko Willink?

  Disrespectful, but I'm not saying you're disrespectful to a blue belt, but realistically, you know that chances are, there's no possible way for them to submit you. Very small chance.

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, the skill levels don't match up.

• 1:28:39Jocko Willink?

  Purple belt slap a triangle on you or something, purple belt grab your arm somewhere.

• 1:28:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:28:43Jocko Willink?

  Uh, yeah, that can happen. Noah, you rolled with Noah lately?

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  He tapped me out.

• 1:28:46Jocko Willink?

  Oh dang.

• 1:28:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, not like the last, but yeah, like within the last year.

• 1:28:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he straightened my arm out real far.

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:54Jocko Willink?

  I had to go into level nine defense mode.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  Some sort of urgency escalated.

• 1:28:59Jocko Willink?

  Oh, I went to full, and he surprised me. That was the thing. You know, we're rolling and all of a sudden, and he's a purple belt. That's, there you have it. There's a classic example.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  In this, in the defense of the game.

• 1:29:10Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna give him a nickname right now. Good Noah, because he's good.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  And he's very handsome, by the way. He's better than you.

• 1:29:17Jocko Willink?

  I'll let you judge that one.

• 1:29:18Speaker 01

  But he's better than a typical purple belt though.

• 1:29:20Jocko Willink?

  Oh, no.

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Really, really good.

• 1:29:21Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:22Speaker 01

  But nonetheless, to your point, that's exactly your point, though. If you have a purple belt, you're, you're not, you're not, you don't have many holes.

• 1:29:29Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  You know, maybe some timing things, maybe some, you know, whatever.

• 1:29:31Jocko Willink?

  No, you're good.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:32Jocko Willink?

  He's a classic example.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:35Jocko Willink?

  Noah's a good purple belt. Watch out.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  But, yeah, you don't pursue back.

• 1:29:40Jocko Willink?

  You know what Noah asks me all the time? When do I get my brown belt? No, I'm just kidding.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  Oh, I was gonna say, you didn't say that.

• 1:29:44Jocko Willink?

  No, he doesn't care.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:46Jocko Willink?

  He's the type of dude that's like, hey, I'll just sit around and tap everyone out. Maybe one day they're gonna be a belt, maybe they won't. Don't care. I'm gonna keep crushing it.

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's how, and so.

• 1:29:54Jocko Willink?

  Keep tapping out Echo Charles.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, bro. What's up?

• 1:29:57Jocko Willink?

  Did you give him your brown belt once you got tapped out by him?

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  I wanted to.

• 1:30:00Jocko Willink?

  Actually, I think I might have. When you get tapped out by a lower belt, it's like, guess what? Jiu-Jitsu works.

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  They should be able to wear your belt for the rest of the day.

• 1:30:09Jocko Willink?

  For the rest of your life. Demo yourself. No, Jiu-Jitsu works.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:30:13Jocko Willink?

  If you do a Jiu-Jitsu move against me, I'm gonna tap out to it.

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:16Jocko Willink?

  Like, that's the way it works.

• 1:30:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:30:18Jocko Willink?

  You know, I might try the defense, but the Jiu-Jitsu works.

• 1:30:22Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:30:23Jocko Willink?

  I mean, we just saw Roger Gracie, Hodge Gracie, against Buchets.

• 1:30:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:29Jocko Willink?

  And people were a little bit freaked out. I was like, yeah, Jiu-Jitsu works.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:32Jocko Willink?

  You know? You get that choke on Buchets, Buchets is an animal.

• 1:30:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:37Jocko Willink?

  A savage.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:30:39Jocko Willink?

  But get that gi collar sunken choke. You got, you got Hodge Gracie, X amount of times, world champion. Can you imagine his grip strength? You rolled with him.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:30:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Grip strength? Well, how was his grip strength?

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  It was really good, but, and not to go into a whole thing about Hodge's game, but he has this thing where, this is weird if you don't know the depths of Jiu-Jitsu, but he has this feeling that he has all bases covered. So he's not necessarily, his game isn't to out hustle you, it's not to out speed you, and it's not to out strength you, for sure. But it's like he, it's like he has this whole base, like all his bases in the Jiu-Jitsu situation. They're all covered.

• 1:31:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  So he'll do this thing that, and he was trying to do it on Buchets, but, you know, Buchets is. Really, really good. He'll grab one sleeve with the opposite hand. He'll grab the elbow and he'll just From close guard, by the way, and he'll pull and he'll just wind up on your back and there's nothing you can do about it. All your little defenses, he's got those covered. No problem. And it's just this thing that it just, it's like this eventuality that you have no defense for. That's how it feels his whole game.

• 1:31:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:46Speaker 01

  So yeah, I mean, it's crazy that he was able to bring that same game to someone like Buchesha.

• 1:31:51Jocko Willink?

  Yep. Buchesha's a beast.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:54Jocko Willink?

  Beast.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just crazy. But yeah, that's how, nonetheless, back to the point, don't pursue the belt. That's not the pursuit. The pursuit is getting better. The belts will come. When the belt comes, to Brandon's point, when the belt comes, that is nice. And to me, when you get your belt from your instructor, not from yourself.

• 1:32:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  When you get, well, if you're, but if you're the guy who's getting mad. If you're the guy that's getting mad and because you think you should have got your belt, you're thinking you're getting your belt from yourself. That's what you're thinking.

• 1:32:25Jocko Willink?

  Oh, in your head, yes.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. Right. So, so forget.

• 1:32:28Jocko Willink?

  I'm ready.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm ready. Exactly. It's not up to you. It's not up to you. You can tap out all the black belts. It's still not up to you. It's up to your instructor. Anyway, when you get your purple belt, brown belt, black belt, yeah, that's, bro. I would say this happens more times than not. If you're a blue belt, you're rolling, you're getting good, you're learning a lot. When you get a purple belt, that's going to empower you so much to be like, now my standard just mentally is higher now. I'm a purple belt now. That's my minimum standard right now.

• 1:32:57Jocko Willink?

  Well, a purple belt is full on in the game.

• 1:33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:00Jocko Willink?

  Right. You can't really be super casual and get a purple belt.

• 1:33:05Speaker 01

  Right. I'm saying whether you're casual or not. Yeah. I'm saying it is empowering and it is, you're going to have a lot of pride with that.

• 1:33:11Jocko Willink?

  Well, I wouldn't say empowering. I would say it puts you. It raises the bar on you.

• 1:33:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:20Jocko Willink?

  Like, once you're wearing a purple belt, you can't be, you know, you now you're like, I can't tap these blue belts anymore. You might, but I'm saying.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, same thing to me, tomato, tomato.

• 1:33:27Jocko Willink?

  It raises the bar.

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:29Jocko Willink?

  Wouldn't you say it raises your standards?

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, of rolling like my own sta- basically exactly what you said.

• 1:33:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the bar is raised.

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I gotta represent.

• 1:33:36Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:33:37Speaker 01

  You know, all this stuff, it's like, it comes with a sense of pride. So, yes, it's a hu- it's a deal.

• 1:33:41Jocko Willink?

  And that's why also, when you're a blue belt, enjoy being a blue belt. You can take more risks, you can get tapped out, doesn't matter, you let it flow.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, let it flow, 100%. But yeah, when you get that belt, yeah, be happy, be prideful, post it on Facebook and, you know, thank your training partners, all that stuff. But don't just pursue the belt, man, it'll jam you on big time. Next question. I'm a 24-year-old machinist. I work CNC machines, do setups and order tooling. Most of the people I work with have worked here for over 15 years. The owner of my company wants to make me the shop manager and honestly, I'm not too tore up about it. I feel like the older guys who've been around won't want to take scheduling and manufacturing advice from a young guy.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  I have good relationships with all the shop guys, but I'm worried about stepping into this role so soon. Only been with the company for three years, any advice?

• 1:34:37Jocko Willink?

  Okay, your boss isn't asking you to do this job if you're not ready for it. That's, that's number one. And the fact that you don't think you're ready is a good sign, I've said this before, because it means that you're humble. So you feel like, that's good, that's probably one of the reasons why you're doing well and probably one of the reasons that your boss thinks you're ready for the job is because you're humble. So that's good. But you also have to remember that being humble has to be balanced dichotomy of leadership with confidence. And even with a little bit of aggression. So, there's a reason that you're getting asked to do this job and the boss needs you to step up. Now, just because you become the manager or the boss doesn't mean that you have to start bossing people around.

• 1:35:13Jocko Willink?

  Right? It actually means that you should remain humble, that you should take input from them, that you can still take advice from them, as opposed to just giving them advice. All those things are fine. And I just got asked this question the other day, young, uh, uh, construction, business, and a kid, and we were in a big meeting with a, with a bunch of leadership, from foreman to engineers, all in the same room, bunch of great guys from a great company. And one of the young engineers raised his hand and said, you know, I'm young and I am going to be in charge of these guys. You know, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with these guys that have been doing it for a lot longer. What can I do to, you know, gain their respect?

• 1:35:58Jocko Willink?

  And I said, okay. Who in this room knows more than that engineer back there about construction? And all these salty construction foremen's raised their hands. And I said, who, you know, who's gonna think that this guy's got the best idea? Raise your hands. All the hands go down. And I said, so this is what you're dealing with, buddy? I said, now let me ask another question to the group. Group, if this kid comes in and says, I know how to do this better than you, listen to me and do it my way, who's gonna have respect for him? Raise your hand. No hands go up. If this young kid comes in and says, hey, I'm an engineer, I've been educated, but I haven't been doing this for long. Can you give me some recommendations on how we do this so we can do

• 1:36:43Jocko Willink?

  the best job possible? Who's gonna have respect for him? Everyone raises their hand. So there you have it. You, you, you don't have to know everything as a leader. No one expects you to know everything, especially as a young leader. That's okay. And actually, when you admit that, you actually gain respect. When you ask for people's input, you actually gain respect. People get the paranoid feeling that if they don't know something, they're gonna be seen as weak. It's not true. So you can just step up into the position, still be humble, still take advice. Now, this doesn't mean that you're a pushover. Right? This doesn't mean that you just listen to what everyone says, you don't make any decisions. No, it actually means that you show respect to their experience.

• 1:37:25Jocko Willink?

  And when it comes time to make a decision, you get the best input and then you make a decision and you explain your decision. And if your decision is wrong, you admit it. And if it's not wrong, you push forward. So that's what you need to do. You're getting asked to be put in this position for a reason, so do it. Get some.

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  Seems like a common one, yeah? That one. I'm stepping in the new role.

• 1:37:45Jocko Willink?

  For sure. Everyone asks that question.

• 1:37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 1:37:47Jocko Willink?

  I answered it again.

• 1:37:48Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:37:49Jocko Willink?

  For everyone's benefit, including my own.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:51Jocko Willink?

  I learn from it every time.

• 1:37:52Speaker 01

  Well, that's the ethos, right? Go in humble.

• 1:37:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:56Speaker 01

  Be open minded, take advice.

• 1:37:57Jocko Willink?

  Yes, yes, yes. Don't have to know everything, yes.

• 1:38:03Speaker 01

  Three days ago. Our neighbor, young girl, one of my daughter's friends, 12 years old. Comes over there messing around, they're swimming.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Uh, she grabs my daughter's jump rope and she's jumping rope. She does the cross, you know, you jump rope and you cross crossover, whatever.

• 1:38:22Jocko Willink?

  Cross over, yeah.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, so she does that and man, I used to jump rope back in the day, but I never really could do the crossover, let's face it. Nonetheless, so she's jump roping and jumping rope and I'm like, hey, do that cross, the crossover thing again. She does it. She's doing, you know, she's 12 years old. I'm like, dang, I never could do that. And she's like, well, you just got to do it like this and tell this. So I'm like, oh, okay. I grabbed the rope. And I try and the rope's too small, so I go grab my rope. Yeah, I got a jump rope. Um, well, I told my daughter to grab it. So she grabs it and this is, this is like a, kind of like one of those pro speed ropes, you know, so it's like, kind of. So if I make a mistake on this rope, it's gonna hurt. I didn't have any shoes on. I was barefoot.

• 1:39:01Jocko Willink?

  Hawaiian style.

• 1:39:02Speaker 01

  Hawaiian style for sure, 100%. And then, so I go for it and jump rope. I can jump rope still pretty good right now. Still, I haven't done it in a while. And

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  she goes, okay, so right here at the top, you know, you, you cross, you, this is where you want to cross at the top. I try, oh, hits my foot, painful. And she's like, no, you gotta do it more at the top.

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:39:23Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  No, no, no, never show the pain to the kids.

• 1:39:25Jocko Willink?

  Good.

• 1:39:26Speaker 01

  I try not to. Anyway, so I was like, okay, boom. Fail. She's like, no, more at the top, you know, it'll, it'll just whatever. So I'm like, okay, I do it. And it took me four times. On my fourth time, I did it for the first time in my life, by the way, the crossover.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  With a painful speed rope. Some, you know, some mental fortitude right there. Throwing in. So.

• 1:39:48Jocko Willink?

  Hardcore.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  I did it. You should have seen.

• 1:39:51Speaker 01

  Very hardcore. But you should have seen the look on her and my daughter's face. They were like, oh, like it was, you know, like I just got my purple belt or something. Nonetheless. So boom. What do we have right there? A situation. This is what I took from it too. We have a situation, a full grown athletic, arguably, person, learning to do something that's really not that easy, obviously, if I've never done it in my life. Learning to do something that takes a fair amount of skill from a 12 year old girl in real time.

• 1:40:28Speaker 01

  And you know what I did?

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  To boot? Gave her the credit. I said, dang, you are the, the best teacher.

• 1:40:36Jocko Willink?

  Going to the muster.

• 1:40:37Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. Right. So that's the thing.

• 1:40:39Jocko Willink?

  You're still humble. The moral of your story, which was a long story.

• 1:40:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:40:43Jocko Willink?

  Be humble. You can learn from anybody.

• 1:40:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:40:45Jocko Willink?

  And when you do learn from someone, give them the credit.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  Boom. That's what I did.

• 1:40:48Jocko Willink?

  See, I said that in 13 seconds.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  I know, bro, but I'm just saying it was impactful and it reminded me of that story. Anyway, next question. Jocko, just checked out podcast 21 with Tim Kennedy. Awesome. Raised a big time question though. You and Tim agreed that cops who make controversial decisions slash mistakes do so simply because they're not trained well enough. That begs the question, how much does the environment someone trains in impact their decision making? How much tactical decision making is innate versus learned? Could killing the ideology that, that the insurgents buy into be better than killing insurgents? Or can they simply not be reasoned with at any level?

• 1:41:32Speaker 01

  There have been terrorists who flee their organizations and start new peaceful lives in other locations.

• 1:41:39Jocko Willink?

  Okay, uh, yes, so the first part of the question, yes, you train how you fight. And the more you train, the more you reprogram your instincts. So that's important. You're reprogramming your instincts when you train and you get better instincts. So that's what you do. And, and now when cops make mistakes, oftentimes it's because of their lack of training. Sometimes they make a mistake. That is a mistake that got made, you know, it's, it's a mistake. That's all it is. And they've been trained well and they still make a mistake. I'm going to tell you the percentage of mistakes go down dramatically, the more that you train and the more realistically trained and the more often you train,

• 1:42:23Jocko Willink?

  you're going to get better. No doubt about it. But that's like an instinct, you're training your instincts. So that's the one thing this, this idea that we could just attack an ideology of terrorists and then have some of them convert, that'd be a wonderful thing that you attack the ideology and then some of them become peaceful, productive members of society. And if we did like a full court press to try and make this happen, we might be able to convert. Let's say we were really successful, we might be able to convert five or 10% a year. Okay, so that's great. Then you have to remember that the enemy is also out there converting people, right?

• 1:43:04Jocko Willink?

  Probably at, at least equal rate, maybe even a little bit higher. So we still end up losing the fight because to break even is to lose because they're still out there doing what they do.

• 1:43:20Jocko Willink?

  And in the meantime, by the way, they're still gaining territory or causing terror. So it's not a good situation. Now, the examples that I use all the time, obviously are Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Both of those groups were like the current day jihadists. They were looking to take over the world.

• 1:43:44Jocko Willink?

  And if we just tried to kill their ideas with our ideas, we would be speaking German right now. Because we would not, we couldn't have changed their ideas fast enough. And, and by the way, they were playing a different game. If we were playing the game of let's cha- exchange ideas,

• 1:44:03Jocko Willink?

  the enemy is playing a different game. So for instance, if someone is trying to assault you,

• 1:44:10Jocko Willink?

  and you're a pacifist, and so you decide that you're gonna try and convince them of the virtues of nonviolence through, through debate and the Socratic method and critical analysis and the use of various rhetorical devices and that's what you're gonna do and you might be the best debater in the entire world.

• 1:44:30Jocko Willink?

  But none of those things are gonna stop that assaulter from punching you in the face. He's playing a different game. And once you're on the ground, he's gonna start kicking you. He's a violent person. Now, maybe if you were to be able to slow him down long enough to try and reason with him, he's not playing that game though. He's there to attack you. He's there to stab you. So your ideas aren't gonna defeat his ideas. You don't have the opportunity to do that. He's not playing debate.

• 1:44:59Jocko Willink?

  So you have to know how to fight. You have to understand violence and you have to be prepared to use it.

• 1:45:07Jocko Willink?

  And if you can, if you can debate and you can win, that's awesome.

• 1:45:12Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. But if it doesn't work, you need to be prepared to use violence as it's needed. And that's the same thing on a larger scale, obviously. We, we can do everything we can to try and help snuff out this extremist ideology. Let's prop up reformists as much as we can. Let's try and bring economic opportunities to these impoverished and, and deprived regions so that they're less likely to come under the psychological grips of a death cult.

• 1:45:46Jocko Willink?

  But at the same time that we're doing those procedures, let's attack their strongest factories of hate. Let's go after their centers of gravity and let's snuff out and destroy those individuals that clearly have no hope of reform and exist only to spread this cancer of hate and violence and terror and death.

• 1:46:13Jocko Willink?

  And if we attack on both those fronts, hopefully, one day where we can live in a world where we can solve problems, not with physical force, but with our intellectual power. And that would be great.

• 1:46:33Jocko Willink?

  And unfortunately, I don't think that day will ever come. Because there's always going to be someone out there. That's going to attack you regardless of your debating skills.

• 1:46:51Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 1:46:52Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, long question here.

• 1:46:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  My general question is, is there a point where it's no longer physically realistic to train jujitsu?

• 1:47:02Jocko Willink?

  Big jujitsu today on the podcast.

• 1:47:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, jujitsu heavy.

• 1:47:05Jocko Willink?

  Jitsu day, yeah. And actually, I noticed we were going back to jujitsu a lot.

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:11Jocko Willink?

  We took some questions that weren't about jujitsu.

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:13Jocko Willink?

  We turned them into jujitsu questions. It happens sometimes.

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:19Speaker 01

  I'm a former competitive athlete, but have experienced various injuries that I still work through on a daily basis. I really want to get into jujitsu, but my only hesitations are my lingering injuries. I don't know anyone who trains. So I don't have any sense of how much is too much when it comes to physical limitations and injuries. I'm sure you must have had injuries over the years that hindered your training. Were you able to modify your training to accommodate them? Although I have no experience, I greatly respect the martial arts. And the last thing that I would want to do is waste the instructor or other students' time by not being able to fully participate and or holding up the class. I hope this question can benefit other podcast listeners who may be wondering the same thing.

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  However, to give you the, give you full detail in reference to the question, I'm 26 and the injuries I'm dealing with are. Here's the list. Left knee that I need to work on daily to maintain full range of motion. On my third ACL. Meaning he had surgery three times?

• 1:48:18Jocko Willink?

  Hmm, well, yeah, he's had three. Actually, you said he had had surgery seven times, but that's his third ACL.

• 1:48:24Speaker 01

  Oh, ACL surgery, oh, yes.

• 1:48:25Jocko Willink?

  The third ligament been put in there.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  Dang, yeah.

• 1:48:28Jocko Willink?

  Cause they replace the ligament.

• 1:48:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:29Jocko Willink?

  Cause it doesn't grow back and it doesn't heal, so they gotta give you a cadaver. Or they either give you your own from your hip or your, yeah, from your hip.

• 1:48:36Speaker 01

  Or hamstring or patella.

• 1:48:37Jocko Willink?

  Or hamstring. And they put that in there, or they give you a cadaver one.

• 1:48:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had that, I had ACL back in the.

• 1:48:43Jocko Willink?

  Cadaver?

• 1:48:44Speaker 01

  My own from my hamstring.

• 1:48:46Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:48:47Speaker 01

  I've had seven surgery, well, I haven't, this is back to the question. I've had seven surgeries, most recent being a femoral osteotomy. And cadaver meniscus transplant, there you go. I'm told one more major injury to the joint and I'm looking at a full knee replacement. Dang it, 26 to. Left shoulder dislocated several times, torn ligament, cartilage and labrum. Don't plan on having the surgery anytime soon. And his, and a history of multiple concussions. I power lift, jog, metcon, hell yeah. Regularly, but all cutting sports. But all cutting sports are pretty much out of the question.

• 1:49:26Jocko Willink?

  I think.

• 1:49:26Speaker 01

  So, cutting all sports, yeah, yeah, gotcha.

• 1:49:28Jocko Willink?

  No, he says, but all cutting sports are pretty much, meaning cutting, you know, you know, when you cut on the field?

• 1:49:35Speaker 01

  Oh, cutting, gotcha, okay.

• 1:49:36Jocko Willink?

  Cutting left, cutting right, I'm pretty sure that's what he means.

• 1:49:38Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, I thought he meant.

• 1:49:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, cause he can power lift, he can jog, he can do metcons, but he can't cut.

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 1:49:44Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:49:44Speaker 01

  Okay, either way, I get, I got you. Uh, sports are pretty much out of the question. If jujitsu isn't feasible, do you recommend any other martial art that would better fit my situation? Just getting tired of only try, trying to stay physically fit and would rather incorporate a beneficial skill into my training? Or is this all in my head and I should stop worrying and just get after it? Thank you for any advice you can offer, podcast, thank you for your service.

• 1:50:08Jocko Willink?

  All right, awesome. Um, so I kind of broke these out, let me, let me break these out here. So his first general question, is there a point where it's no longer physically realistic to train jujitsu? The answer to that really is yes, but you can also train jujitsu in a wide variety of levels of intensity. A very wide, you could theoretically just go and learn the techniques.

• 1:50:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:28Jocko Willink?

  You could just learn the techniques and never actually roll to someone. And if you couldn't do anything at all. That would, in my opinion, I would still do that. Yeah. Just to, just to know and understand it, I would still do that. Yeah. Would you? Agree, yes. And now, what you have to be watch out for is that you're gonna wanna try him. Yeah. You're gonna wanna try him against someone real. And that's just, that's what you're gonna need, wanna do now. You know, like I said, you can do it from just, from just learning the techniques only to, all the way to competing in jiu-jitsu. And like I said, you gotta watch out that you, if you can only learn them,

• 1:51:08Jocko Willink?

  and maybe you can roll light, maybe you can find, you can roll with light people, or you can roll with really good brown belts that are light and that, that you tell them, you know, upfront, hey, I got injuries, I'm not here to, for an ego trip, I just wanna try the moves. You better freaking keep your ego in check, though. You have to. Which is what's so hard. Because you're gonna think, well, this guy's kinda skinny, I think I could do this right now, I think I could get out of this, and then you end up getting hurt. Yeah. So you can't let that happen. So don't let your ego get in the way. You might not want, if you have all those serious injuries, like it sounds like you have, you may not wanna roll with anybody for a long time until you really, truly understand jiu-jitsu. So, that's question number one. Yes, you can learn it without much risk, actually.

• 1:51:53Jocko Willink?

  Very limited risk. If you're just looking to learn the techniques, you could learn it with very limited risk. Now, the next question. Have I had injuries over the years and was I able to modify my training to accommodate them? Absolutely, yeah. I've had ankle, you know, sprained ankles, high sprains, all that stuff, and when that happens, you see me training my bottom game a bunch, cuz I'm not gonna be on top. I hurt my back one time really bad and I couldn't do an oompa. This is when I was a blue belt. Couldn't do an oompa. Couldn't do it. Guess what I did? Elbow escape, my elbow escape got good cuz I could not do an oompa. Uh, I've had my MCL, eighty percent tear. Get some. Guess what?

• 1:52:34Jocko Willink?

  No factor. Put on, and I, I couldn't train for like a couple of weeks, but then I put on one of those hinged metal braces. Strap that thing on tight. Could I do closed guard? No. Could I do a triangle on someone? No. Did I have to be careful? Yes. Did I train? Absolutely. My neck, I had neck surgery and, you know, my neck now, does it hurt? Yeah, though I, and my whole game.

• 1:52:59Jocko Willink?

  is kind of based fundamentally around protecting my neck. So I don't do certain moves that I used to do that were that are high risk neck moves. Interesting. Right, like, uh, yeah, there's just certain moves that I just don't do anymore. Cause it's a high risk neck move and I don't want to put my neck into just into jeopardy. So, yes, you do go through things. Now, occasionally, like, I just got through, uh, a few weeks. Where I had three simultaneous injuries.

• 1:53:30Jocko Willink?

  And it was a broken knuckle. Uh, some kind of a knee issue. And I had a gaping cut on my toe. My big toe ripped half the skin off the bottom of my toe. And so I said to myself, okay, I'll just tape up my entire body and still train. No, I didn't say that. I said, you know what? This is, you know, my body telling me, you know, one injury you can get through. Two injuries, okay, wait a second. But when I finally tore my toe open, I was like, okay, maybe it's time to take like some time away from the mat. So I didn't train for a few weeks, right? Probably the longest I haven't trained in it since I can't remember.

• 1:54:14Jocko Willink?

  Uh, but that's three injuries stacked on top of one another. And now I'm just thinking to myself, you gotta be kidding me. Let them all heal. And that's what I did. Uh, so that's that. The next sort of question was if jujitsu isn't feasible, do you recommend any other martial art? That would be better fit your situation? I think you can always learn jujitsu. I think you could learn to box. Um, you could learn Muay Thai. You gotta be careful. Be careful with Muay Thai, you've got the knee surgeries. You got, I would say little or no sparring since you've had concussions. Uh, and like I said, in all those cases, you're gonna learn to box and you're like, well, I think I want to try this out, man. Looks pretty easy in that sparring ring. I'm gonna get in there. Don't. You've already have concussions. You can't. You gotta keep your ego in check.

• 1:54:59Jocko Willink?

  And then the last part of the question was, or is this all in my head and I should just stop worrying and get after it? Look, we all have got to know our limitations. You gotta also know that sometimes you're putting limitations on yourself that are too tight. And you also got to realize that sometimes you can push yourself too hard and overdo it and end up in a really rough spot where you got a permanent injury like you know right my knee is not fully healed and so instead of doing nine rounds of jujitsu I did like four yesterday five yesterday five today you know not and and avoiding a couple possessions right you know that's what I'm doing yeah that's okay I can't go in there and have the big ego and be like I'm

• 1:55:44Jocko Willink?

  gonna be on top right now no can't do it and the more impactful part is I can't have the big ego of like somebody comes up like hey let's roll right like okay I'll roll with you because I don't want to look like a wuss yeah yeah no no actually I got an injured knee can't roll right now which I hate saying yeah I despise saying that I despise saying that I despise it but I know that you know I gotta heal up yeah man so part of the game yeah that's ego in check remember Jerry Lowden remember yeah so he had jammed up knees and I thought of him

• 1:56:18Speaker 01

  you know well um you know reading this guy's question yeah same age maybe I don't know Jerry might have been older maybe like 32 or something yeah so jammed up knees but you know he jujitsu guy so he comes in and what he'd always do is he'd be like hey let's he'd grab me because I've known him a long time for a little minute he uh he'd be like hey let's he what he called it is hey do you want to play meaning like we're just we're just rolling you know just like how you said like you uh like how I warm up with Andy yes exactly right yes he's really good for that

• 1:56:49Jocko Willink?

  he's great now Dean is not good for that okay yeah so don't roll Dean Dean will literally say to me hey let's just get warmed up and then he'll get across side and smash me for for four minutes and 38 seconds yeah yeah and torture me yeah so I do not do warm up rounds with Dean Dean you can go to hell no warm up rounds with you and obviously Dean does that on purpose oh for sure if like newer guys do that you when we do that Dean has two advantages number one I'm not warm And that means there's no sweat yet, so he's, so there's, there's like just friction.

• 1:57:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:23Jocko Willink?

  And he can just secure positions.

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:57:26Jocko Willink?

  And it sucks. And, and psychologically, we both, oh, and the other, the other advantage that he has is he's fresh. Because the deeper we go into deep waters, the better I'm doing. Because I'm in better condition than him.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  I dig it, man.

• 1:57:39Jocko Willink?

  But he has those two advantages out of the gate, so he's gonna make me pay.

• 1:57:43Speaker 01

  It's so funny, you can tell.

• 1:57:44Jocko Willink?

  No, it's not funny.

• 1:57:45Speaker 01

  This is like a little thing.

• 1:57:46Jocko Willink?

  Oh, it's a thing. It's a twenty-something year thing with Dean.

• 1:57:49Speaker 01

  Hey, man, I dig it, and that's probably gonna continue till, you know, till you guys are both kinda out of the game.

• 1:57:54Jocko Willink?

  We just had an incident yesterday.

• 1:57:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 1:57:56Jocko Willink?

  Incident yesterday happened, you know?

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  Hey, what, what happened? Talk about it.

• 1:58:00Jocko Willink?

  No, I already did.

• 1:58:01Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 1:58:01Jocko Willink?

  Words were exchanged loudly, in the gym.

• 1:58:04Speaker 01

  Anyway, Jerry is really good with that, where this is a guy in this guy's situation.

• 1:58:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:11Speaker 01

  More or less knee-wise, anyway.

• 1:58:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  And, um, I think it was even both his knees.

• 1:58:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I think it was.

• 1:58:15Speaker 01

  You know, so you can do that, and you can get like a good movement, good rolling, without that, that impact, you know, when every once in a while, you gotta turn up the heat or whatever on a guy, because that comes from ego, yeah, it's more of like this competitive kinda spirit of rolling jujitsu, that's kinda what it is. So if you can avoid that, you gotta actively avoid it. And still get that movement if you can find the right person. And you can go, and you can go, you can learn, you can get more or less live situations. But you just can't be like, you can't fight that little fight in the fight, you know? You gotta let that go.

• 1:58:48Jocko Willink?

  Can't get crazy.

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  But yeah, you can learn, for sure, you can learn.

• 1:58:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:52Speaker 01

  Don't do takedowns. If you got a knee situation, don't do.

• 1:58:55Jocko Willink?

  No takedowns.

• 1:58:56Speaker 01

  Takedown situation, that's, that's gonna be hard.

• 1:58:59Jocko Willink?

  Check. Alright.

• 1:59:01Speaker 01

  Okay, last question.

• 1:59:04Jocko Willink?

  And you know, this, this last question, it's, it's not really a question, well, it, it, it, look, I get a lot of awesome emails. And I get emails from people that have completely turned their lives around. They've, they've lost weight, if they need to lose weight, or they've gained weight, because they needed to gain weight, or they've gotten promoted, or they've become a better parent, or they've become a better spouse, or they've become a better kid.

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:37Jocko Willink?

  And I get emails from people that have quit their addictions. Or they've, or they've overcome their fear. And I'll tell you what, I get letters and, and packages and notes about all this kind of stuff. And it's awesome. I get, I get, people send me books for the podcast and, and pictures and drawings and, and, and military memorabilia or unit patches and coins from, you know, police departments and fire departments and, and military units. It's just,

• 2:00:16Jocko Willink?

  it's awesome. And, and I'm,

• 2:00:21Jocko Willink?

  I'm so thankful for all that feedback.

• 2:00:25Jocko Willink?

  And it, it drives me. That feedback that I get drives me to work hard and keep pushing to do this to the best of my ability and try and get better at it.

• 2:00:44Jocko Willink?

  But,

• 2:00:47Jocko Willink?

  you know, I, I hear from people that have used the podcast and the discipline and the, the, mindset of looking at things that are problematic as being good. I hear from people that have used those things to overcome,

• 2:01:08Jocko Willink?

  you know, dark patches Yeah. in their lives, you know, whether it's depression or anxiety or even like full-fledged despair. And again, when you hear from people that are turned that corner, that's just incredibly rewarding.

• 2:01:29Jocko Willink?

  To know that there's, you know, there's people out there that are really changing for the better and turning their lives from negative to positive. It's unbelievably rewarding.

• 2:01:49Jocko Willink?

  But I also get

• 2:01:52Jocko Willink?

  some other emails and I get some other messages

• 2:01:58Jocko Willink?

  from people that haven't been able

• 2:02:04Jocko Willink?

  to dig out of that hole, to overcome that

• 2:02:10Jocko Willink?

  that despair.

• 2:02:13Jocko Willink?

  I, I hear from people sometimes that feel there's nowhere, nowhere else to go. There's no way out.

• 2:02:21Jocko Willink?

  And they don't have any more options.

• 2:02:26Jocko Willink?

  And they are considering

• 2:02:32Jocko Willink?

  taking the only way out that they can see, and that is they want to take their own life.

• 2:02:45Jocko Willink?

  And

• 2:02:50Jocko Willink?

  to anybody out there that's in that place.

• 2:02:57Jocko Willink?

  You know,

• 2:03:01Jocko Willink?

  I don't really know what exactly to tell you.

• 2:03:08Jocko Willink?

  But I can kind of tell you

• 2:03:12Jocko Willink?

  what I think.

• 2:03:17Jocko Willink?

  I think, no.

• 2:03:22Jocko Willink?

  I think, no. I think, don't save that last bullet for yourself. Don't save it for yourself. You lock and load that last bullet and you shoot it at your enemy.

• 2:03:40Jocko Willink?

  And when you're out of bullets, get out your knife and attack with that.

• 2:03:47Jocko Willink?

  And if you lose your knife, you grab your enemy by the throat and you keep fighting. And you keep fighting and you keep fighting and you keep fighting no matter what.

• 2:04:07Jocko Willink?

  And you never quit.

• 2:04:11Jocko Willink?

  You never, never quit.

• 2:04:17Jocko Willink?

  And if you feel like your life is in a place where you can't get any lower

• 2:04:25Jocko Willink?

  and you don't think you can find any way out

• 2:04:32Jocko Willink?

  good

• 2:04:35Jocko Willink?

  because that means the ultimate challenge is ahead of you. It means you can only go up.

• 2:04:46Jocko Willink?

  And it also means that things are gonna be tough.

• 2:04:53Jocko Willink?

  Things are gonna be tougher than anything you can imagine, but that storm that you're in, from, from your perspective,

• 2:05:06Jocko Willink?

  it seems like that storm is enveloping the whole world.

• 2:05:15Jocko Willink?

  But I'm telling you, it is not.

• 2:05:21Jocko Willink?

  The storm that you're in, it is hard to see out of that storm. It's hard to see past it. It seems like the storm, it seems like the storm is everything.

• 2:05:37Jocko Willink?

  But the storm is not everything.

• 2:05:42Jocko Willink?

  And it won't last forever.

• 2:05:50Jocko Willink?

  You can get out of the storm and you will get out of the storm and when you get out

• 2:06:02Jocko Willink?

  you're gonna see the sun again.

• 2:06:11Jocko Willink?

  But right now, you're being tried.

• 2:06:16Jocko Willink?

  You're being forged. You're being tested by fire and by pain.

• 2:06:28Jocko Willink?

  That's the test.

• 2:06:34Jocko Willink?

  Don't fail the test.

• 2:06:38Jocko Willink?

  Don't fail the test. Don't give in. Don't quit.

• 2:06:48Jocko Willink?

  Don't ever quit.

• 2:06:51Jocko Willink?

  Fight on.

• 2:06:54Jocko Willink?

  Fight through the storm.

• 2:06:57Jocko Willink?

  Fight through the pain and come out the other side stronger. And tougher. And better.

• 2:07:13Jocko Willink?

  A fighter.

• 2:07:17Jocko Willink?

  A survivor.

• 2:07:21Jocko Willink?

  A winner.

• 2:07:27Jocko Willink?

  Victorious.

• 2:07:32Jocko Willink?

  And

• 2:07:36Jocko Willink?

  Free from that storm.

• 2:07:41Jocko Willink?

  Free from the darkness.

• 2:07:49Jocko Willink?

  Free.

• 2:07:59Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's

• 2:08:03Jocko Willink?

  All I've got For tonight.

• 2:08:09Jocko Willink?

  So

• 2:08:12Jocko Willink?

  Echo Charles.

• 2:08:15Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of

• 2:08:19Jocko Willink?

  Being stronger and being better.

• 2:08:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:24Jocko Willink?

  Maybe you could tell us some ways to

• 2:08:30Jocko Willink?

  make ourselves a little stronger and a little better.

• 2:08:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:33Jocko Willink?

  And at the same time.

• 2:08:34Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:08:35Jocko Willink?

  Possibly support this podcast.

• 2:08:37Speaker 01

  If they want to.

• 2:08:38Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 2:08:39Speaker 01

  You're under no obligation to support yourself. Well, I think as a human being you are, but I'm just saying as far as the message here. It's up to you. But if you do want to what pursue whatever you want to pursue, your participation is required. Does that make sense?

• 2:08:57Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:08:57Speaker 01

  Okay, anyway.

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna talk about on it. So good fitness gear, good stuff. I just got some fulvic minerals. It's actually from my wife. Nonetheless, they got some good stuff for any area of getting after it that you need to to or that you want supplementation with. So remember that jump rope story I told, right?

• 2:09:23Speaker 01

  That was an on it jump rope.

• 2:09:24Jocko Willink?

  Oh, there you go.

• 2:09:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Pro speed rope, I think it's called. It's like, bro, there's a lot of technological advances in jump rope.

• 2:09:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:09:31Speaker 01

  Back in when we were, you know.

• 2:09:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:33Speaker 01

  Elementary school.

• 2:09:34Jocko Willink?

  For me.

• 2:09:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:35Jocko Willink?

  It was just a piece of leather hide.

• 2:09:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, or what was mine like a rope? It was straight up a rope with a handle.

• 2:09:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:40Speaker 01

  And another handle at the end. That's it. This one has like a swivel. It has a thing. It has a pulley system. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know what it's called. It's made out of this stuff. It's like, yeah, it's good. It swills good. Anyway. Yeah, that jumper was good. Also kettlebells.

• 2:09:57Jocko Willink?

  Solid.

• 2:09:58Speaker 01

  Solid.

• 2:09:59Jocko Willink?

  Heavy.

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  Heavy.

• 2:10:00Jocko Willink?

  As you need.

• 2:10:01Speaker 01

  Bearing weights.

• 2:10:02Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 2:10:02Speaker 01

  I bought one for my daughter. The

• 2:10:06Speaker 01

  what's the, what is it? The little monkey howler. That's what it's called. I think it's like 18 pounds or something like that. She can lift it up. She can't swing it. She's four.

• 2:10:13Jocko Willink?

  Lifting it though, right?

• 2:10:13Speaker 01

  She's deadlifting it.

• 2:10:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:15Speaker 01

  Good for me. Be surprised, man. Little kids.

• 2:10:17Jocko Willink?

  They have a natural instinct for form.

• 2:10:18Speaker 01

  Exactly. Right. Cause they're trying to find the perfect balance. That's why they have no choice. They do off balance. They're just gonna fall down. My son, 11 months old now, started walking at straight up, kind of earlier than my other, like nine, almost 10 months.

• 2:10:31Jocko Willink?

  You know what that means, right?

• 2:10:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. He's gonna be also.

• 2:10:33Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that means he's gonna be an unbelievable athlete. You're set for life. You need to start getting him recruited right now. That's what everybody thinks.

• 2:10:38Speaker 01

  That's what they say.

• 2:10:39Jocko Willink?

  Everybody's kid is the best kid in the world.

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:41Jocko Willink?

  That's what everybody thinks.

• 2:10:42Speaker 01

  And by no means is that my message here. But the message is you watch them do a squat to pick something up. You're like dang, that's good form. So my daughter, she's four, she picks up the kettlebell, little howler. And I'm like, first I'm like, oh shoot, I don't know if she should be picking it up. She doesn't know what she's doing. She picks it up. It's perfect form. Deadlift form.

• 2:11:04Jocko Willink?

  My, when my youngest daughter was like six or seven, I had her deadlifting. And uh,

• 2:11:10Speaker 01

  Straight up had her.

• 2:11:11Jocko Willink?

  No, no, and I, I pushed her too hard and she was deadlifting and she like, ah, her back.

• 2:11:17Speaker 01

  Ah, how old?

• 2:11:19Jocko Willink?

  Like six or seven. I mean, she was just doing like double body weight. And um,

• 2:11:25Jocko Willink?

  but it was with kettlebells. And so you're not going that low. So it makes it a little bit easier. So I thought, so she was deadlifting and my son was in there too. And I think my other daughter, we were all just getting after.

• 2:11:40Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:11:41Jocko Willink?

  And you know, so I'm like, you can do this, you can do this. And we're escalating weights and going heavier and heavier. And finally we get to like a pretty big weight. I forget what it was. It might've been, it might've been, huh, maybe the thirty-two kilogram or something like that. So she lifts it and like right as she gets almost to the top, she gets the look on her face and like, like moves sharp. And then, and then she like started to tear up. She dropped, she didn't drop it. She put it back down. She started to tear up and she's like, I think something happened to me back daddy. And I was like, oh God, I am the worst father ever.

• 2:12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you are actually.

• 2:12:16Jocko Willink?

  Don't go with the heavy kettlebells for the kids or heavy deadlifting. They're not ready for it.

• 2:12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll go on record straight up and say, don't buy kettlebells for your kids or a program that you got sorted out for them. And when they're four or eleven months or whatever.

• 2:12:29Jocko Willink?

  Wait till they're six.

• 2:12:31Speaker 01

  Don't do it. I bought the kettlebell because when I go out there, she'll watch.

• 2:12:36Jocko Willink?

  One of my daughter, of that daughter, deadlifting and like posted at one time, people were all pumped.

• 2:12:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:42Jocko Willink?

  Cause it's pretty dope.

• 2:12:43Speaker 01

  It, it's dope to see in a picture, but man, you can't get crazy with that. I think. If I'm lifting my kettlebells, and they're cool. There's a werewolf ones and you know, all this stuff. My daughter's out there, she's cruising, she's watching, she's like, you know, she obviously, hey, let me try, let me try. And she

• 2:12:58Jocko Willink?

  She wants to get in the game.

• 2:12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't want her to pick up that werewolf, it weighs sixty-two pounds. One of them.

• 2:13:04Jocko Willink?

  You don't let her?

• 2:13:06Speaker 01

  I don't let, I don't push her to put, pick that up, no. She'll grab it and try, she doesn't pick it up, no. But it's too heavy for her. And so, but she just wants to be like dad.

• 2:13:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:17Speaker 01

  That's all it is.

• 2:13:17Jocko Willink?

  So you got her to howler?

• 2:13:19Speaker 01

  Just as a little gift, you know, hey, you got your own kettlebell, you know how empowering that is? I'm not saying that now, now let's lift kettlebells, girl, you're only four. Now you're on the pro, it's not that, it's for her to have her own little kettlebell and be, you know, it's like a cohesive thing, you know?

• 2:13:32Jocko Willink?

  No, that's cool.

• 2:13:32Speaker 01

  Just like she likes to do pull-ups, but not really, she's not on a pull-up routine, she reads Where Your Kid, I read it to her. And she sees me doing pull-ups, she's like, my turn, I wanna do pull-ups. Now, when she's able to get on her own program, or be more in a position to facilitate a program imposed upon her, as the case may be, not too early, by the way. She'll be familiar with pull-ups, she'll know the value of pull-ups, plus dad does pull-ups, so it's obviously cool.

• 2:13:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:58Speaker 01

  You know, and she's gonna be down, she's gonna be kinda set for life in regards to pull-ups, kettlebells, whatever.

• 2:14:03Jocko Willink?

  So, I like it.

• 2:14:05Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:14:05Jocko Willink?

  Where can you get those?

• 2:14:07Speaker 01

  Oh, the kettlebells, yeah, on it, dot com.

• 2:14:09Jocko Willink?

  Or the jump rope?

• 2:14:10Speaker 01

  Or the jumper, the jump ropes, dope. Nonetheless,

• 2:14:14Speaker 01

  don't, I don't think, actually, I do think, that those designer kettlebells, those are kinda like the, um,

• 2:14:24Speaker 01

  that's the, kinda the pre-Madonna one, actually, no.

• 2:14:26Jocko Willink?

  You said this last time.

• 2:14:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a wrong word, though.

• 2:14:29Jocko Willink?

  You're okay with it now?

• 2:14:30Speaker 01

  I'm okay with it, they're dope.

• 2:14:31Jocko Willink?

  They're just good.

• 2:14:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:32Jocko Willink?

  You like them.

• 2:14:33Speaker 01

  They're not like the hardcore dusty

• 2:14:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:35Speaker 01

  cannonballs with handles.

• 2:14:37Jocko Willink?

  You're not like, not the ones I have.

• 2:14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, the ones I have, yeah, they're not like that, I got all the, the designer ones, but they are cool.

• 2:14:45Speaker 01

  If you walk into a gym.

• 2:14:48Speaker 01

  You know, you go to the gym, you're wherever and there's a bunch of kettlebells, right? And you're, you're looking for a certain weight and let's say there's the werewolf ones and then there's the regular ones. Which ones are you gonna use?

• 2:14:59Jocko Willink?

  Me? Is this a serious question or just like a basic question for everyone?

• 2:15:03Speaker 01

  Both.

• 2:15:04Jocko Willink?

  What do you think I would use?

• 2:15:05Speaker 01

  Werewolf ones, probably.

• 2:15:06Jocko Willink?

  See, that's why you're wrong.

• 2:15:08Speaker 01

  Well, nonetheless, I think they're cool and go ahead and check them out. They're on onnit.com slash Jocko. That's where you get it. Support yourself, really. And it supports this podcast also. If you're into these books, we didn't read any books.

• 2:15:23Speaker 01

  But.

• 2:15:23Jocko Willink?

  I mentioned a few books today.

• 2:15:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:25Jocko Willink?

  Mentioned Hackworth books.

• 2:15:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:27Jocko Willink?

  Right? I mentioned Dick Winters books. Where can you find those books?

• 2:15:30Speaker 01

  Well, ultimately you get them from Amazon like everything else. But if you want to go through the list of specific books, go to the website, Jocko Podcast.com section on the top or menu item on the top. Boom, clicks you to the page with all the books by episode, by the way. Actually, I don't think I put Extreme Ownership on there. But nonetheless, click through there.

• 2:15:50Jocko Willink?

  That's kind of jacked up.

• 2:15:52Speaker 01

  Well, actually.

• 2:15:53Jocko Willink?

  Isn't that go to the right?

• 2:15:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's the thing. Extreme Ownership is featured all upon there.

• 2:15:57Jocko Willink?

  We never covered it in the podcast.

• 2:15:59Speaker 01

  Correct. So it's not going to be on the list of books covered in the podcast because the section is called books from the episodes. Nonetheless.

• 2:16:05Jocko Willink?

  Maybe I'll have Leif on and we'll do Extreme Ownership.

• 2:16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:08Jocko Willink?

  That'd be cool.

• 2:16:09Speaker 01

  That'd be like layers because you wrote the book, you experienced all the thing with Leif, you do the audio book and now you're doing it on the podcast. So it's like a thing. Anyway, go do that, go to Jocko Podcast.com. Boom, choose whatever book or books that you want, click through there to get them. Boom, got you. That's a good way to support. Yep. Very good. It's like, um, and it's what? Takes what? One second, two seconds and big support.

• 2:16:37Speaker 01

  Small action, big reaction. Just saying.

• 2:16:41Jocko Willink?

  We know what you're saying.

• 2:16:42Speaker 01

  You know what, you know what I'm saying? You understand? Also, good way to support is to subscribe. That's on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play and all these other podcasting providing platforms. Not to mention YouTube. If you like the video format, you wanna see what Jocko looks like if you don't know already. Uh, you know, I guess you can see what I look like, which I'm not saying to look at me. To look at me, cuz whatever.

• 2:17:03Jocko Willink?

  If you don't know what Echo looks like, go look on YouTube. So you can see what he looks like cuz he doesn't look like what you think he looks like.

• 2:17:10Speaker 01

  Apparently, yeah.

• 2:17:10Jocko Willink?

  Apparently. I've known him too long to understand the, what he appears to be via his voice.

• 2:17:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:17:18Jocko Willink?

  But apparently he doesn't sound like what he looks like.

• 2:17:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess.

• 2:17:21Jocko Willink?

  You might wanna check that out.

• 2:17:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess they don't match my look and my voice.

• 2:17:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, apparently not.

• 2:17:27Speaker 01

  But you know, I live in a world where we're judged on the content of our character and the contents of our hearts. So, how I look doesn't matter quite as much as one might think, but if you are less interested in seeing that, go to YouTube. While you're at it, subscribe. That's a good way to support. Plus, we're gonna, we do add other videos that are shorter in form. We do have the video version of the podcast, whole thing, two hours, three hours, however long.

• 2:17:52Jocko Willink?

  And Echo is gonna post a video of, I think it's the most I've laughed, uh, captured on video in history. So, I was laughing at something that, that was not in the podcast. We were recording, wasn't in the podcast. I laughed really hard.

• 2:18:09Speaker 01

  It was pre-podcast.

• 2:18:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, pre-podcast record sesh.

• 2:18:12Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:18:13Jocko Willink?

  And that happened, so I'm looking forward to seeing that one. You better get it up before this thing comes out.

• 2:18:18Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 2:18:19Jocko Willink?

  And just, yeah.

• 2:18:20Speaker 01

  Anyway, that's a good way to support. Subscribe, YouTube. Other ex, small excerpts on there, anywhere from one minute to 12 minutes was the exception. Usually it's between one and three minutes, little lessons that you can kinda extract.

• 2:18:32Jocko Willink?

  Anyone that thinks 12 minutes is an excerpt, I don't know, I don't think that's right.

• 2:18:37Speaker 01

  Technically, it is.

• 2:18:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I guess it is, but technically, let's make them three minutes.

• 2:18:41Speaker 01

  Okay, you got it.

• 2:18:42Jocko Willink?

  You should, you should put more effort into them and, and, and cut them down, like the real critical parts. That's what I think.

• 2:18:50Speaker 01

  Okay, thank you for that input.

• 2:18:52Jocko Willink?

  Call them out on the effort. You didn't like that at all.

• 2:18:54Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, all good. Thank you for your.

• 2:18:56Jocko Willink?

  Method. No, I'm gonna try fling. Hey, you know what? I think they're, they're good, but you think they'd be, go over better if they were even a little bit shorter? What do you think?

• 2:19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the long ones really.

• 2:19:05Jocko Willink?

  You're the pro with this stuff. I'm just kinda over here. See?

• 2:19:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, you got it, you got it, bro. Whatever you need, um, you're the man, but nonetheless, that's a good way to support.

• 2:19:14Jocko Willink?

  Or you can make the excerpts seventeen minutes long.

• 2:19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but maybe there's seventeen minutes of complete-

• 2:19:19Jocko Willink?

  Of beauty.

• 2:19:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, unvaried value, yeah, exactly, right? So I'm just saying, you never know.

• 2:19:25Jocko Willink?

  Good times.

• 2:19:26Speaker 01

  Also, Jocko has a store. It's called Jocko Store. jockostore.com, that's the website. So anyway, on there, there's what, t-shirts? Travel mugs, some bumper stickers on there, some patches.

• 2:19:41Speaker 01

  These are Velcro patches, you can interchange them. They're cool. They wound up being pretty cool.

• 2:19:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 2:19:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:48Jocko Willink?

  Guys that are deployed.

• 2:19:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, representing big time. Yeah, it's so cool, too.

• 2:19:56Speaker 01

  It's, it's weird, cuz you know, like you always say, like, we're sitting in this room, you know? And sure, we got some patches out there, but to see them-

• 2:20:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:06Speaker 01

  Like, people, you know, they'll post it on social, and they'll send it to you, and they'll tag you and stuff like that. To see them, like, dang, guys are rolling around, straight up representing, it's like, it's weird. It's, it's weird, in a good way.

• 2:20:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, it's awesome.

• 2:20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's super awesome to see. Um, so yeah, there's some stuff on there, hey, just go, jockostore.com, that's the website. And hey, if you like what you see, if you like an item, get an item, good way to support. Also, on your journey, we all, no matter what Jocko will ever say, we all hit moments of weakness. And just like if you're gonna max bench, I know I said this before, I'm gonna say it again, because it holds true, if you're gonna go one rep max, or even two rep max, whatever, on bench-

• 2:20:53Jocko Willink?

  What about three rep max?

• 2:20:54Speaker 01

  Three rep max as well. It starts to get a little bit more safe, I think, in my opinion, but let's say two rep max, you're gonna have someone there to spot you, just in case. You fully intend to get those two reps, fully.

• 2:21:09Speaker 01

  But when you're pushing it, it's wise to have a spot. Cause if for some reason, maybe you didn't eat your, you know, a good whatever. Maybe you didn't get enough sleep. I don't know. But you could hit a little roadblock, little moment of weakness. You have that spot there. Boom. Gets you through, gets you that last inch on your rep or whatever. Keeps you on your path. This is the real world version of this is called psychological warfare. And what that is, it's an album with tracks. Jocko tracks and for any situation you might find yourself in that you have a moment of weakness, like getting up in the morning or skipping your workout when you intended to work out or slacking on your diet.

• 2:21:47Speaker 01

  Jocko will be there with a track that'll help you through it. It's called psychological warfare. Jocko will link to a search iTunes. Amazon music, other MP3 providing. What do you call it? Outlets? Like outlets. Yeah. It's a good one. Real good one.

• 2:22:06Jocko Willink?

  Cool.

• 2:22:08Jocko Willink?

  Also, you know, we've got.

• 2:22:11Jocko Willink?

  We got kind of a. Kind of a big announcement coming. Which we haven't really had any big announcements, right? I'm not a big, cause you know what? I'm not a big announcement kind of guy.

• 2:22:22Speaker 01

  Right. Plus.

• 2:22:23Jocko Willink?

  So I guess I'm not going to do this whole thing with the big announcement thing. I will, I will say this. This is it. Okay. Just we'll say, we're not going to hold back.

• 2:22:32Jocko Willink?

  Put the, this is what's going on. After. Many months of. Due diligence and conversations and relationship building and growing understanding. We are actually joining forces. With.

• 2:22:55Jocko Willink?

  A company called Origin.

• 2:22:59Jocko Willink?

  Origin Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

• 2:23:02Jocko Willink?

  In Maine. Now, this actually occurred, believe it or not, due to this podcast. This podcast, I was doing a Facebook Live. I said something about, this was months ago, said something about Origin. Say, if you want a ghee, get a ghee from Origin, they make them in America. They're well crafted, special material, woven up in Maine, they're cool, check them out.

• 2:23:30Jocko Willink?

  And Sarah Armstrong, you know Sarah Armstrong, right? Of course I do. She motivated, got after it, and put me in touch with this guy Pete Roberts, who's the founder and owner of Origin. And, you know, I knew about him, that's why I was talking about him on the Facebook Live, because I had seen him, and I'd known that like a possessed psychopath, he wanted to make ghee's in America, so he went and found looms to weave material with and all that stuff. And the thing is, is he was basically alone with his team on his quest to make this happen,

• 2:24:15Jocko Willink?

  but the cool thing is, he's not alone anymore.

• 2:24:21Jocko Willink?

  He has a partner now, in fact, he has partners now, me, you, and really, all of us, to help out, to get in the game with what we're doing now. And just so you know, Origin, like I said, it's not some brand that's throwing some graphics onto a t-shirt, right? That's not what's going on there. You have a legitimate movement, for lack of a better word, of a guy that is up there, and what we're trying to do is re-

• 2:24:57Jocko Willink?

  Rebirth manufacturing in America. So that's it. Started with Gee's. Um, that's definitely a huge focus, but we're going to make everything. We're going to build the best gear in the world, not just for jujitsu, but for everything you do in life. We're going to make the best gear for being on the warpath. That's what we're going to do. So we'll come out with a bunch of details. That's the big announcement that was going to come. I just made it. So hey, you know what? In the meantime, uh, check out originmaine.com for Gee's for rash guards for whatever else you might need. And if you want to see what this is all about, by the way,

• 2:25:42Jocko Willink?

  if you want to see what we're going to do, come up to the camp that we're having, the jujitsu camp up in Maine. Echo is going to be there. I'm going to be there. A bunch of black belts are going to be there. We're going to be getting after it. Or cruising. Or both. It's August 20th through the 27th. Two sessions are going to be there. Echo and I are going to be there. The last day of the first session and the first day of the second session. So that's when we're going to be up there and people have been asking, what level of jujitsu do you need to be? You can be any level. If you've never done it before, that's cool. Come, we'll teach you. We'll give you the base. I will give you the basic that thing that Echo talked about earlier.

• 2:26:26Jocko Willink?

  But so if you've never done it, come learn. It'll be the best introduction you're ever going to get in your life. Quite frankly, just to come and train immersion for either four days or seven days. That's a, it's a good way to start learning a language, get immersed in it. And, and by the way, also if you're a black belt or a brown belt or a purple belt, and you want to come up and just train hardcore, the bunch of good dudes come on up. So that's that also. This is cool. On the 23rd of August. So in the middle of that camp. There is, we are opening, opening a new factory. Twenty thousand square feet of American manufacturing in Farmington, Maine.

• 2:27:08Jocko Willink?

  Uh, come on up. It's actually open to the public. So come on up, hang out. We're gonna be there. You know, doing what we do, cruising, checking now out. And it's gonna be, it's like pretty historical in my mind.

• 2:27:21Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:27:21Jocko Willink?

  This merging of bad badassness.

• 2:27:25Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:27:26Jocko Willink?

  Coming to fruition after many months behind the scenes. Um, so yeah, come and join us on that day, the 23rd. Even if you're not at the camp, come on up. Uh, you know what else we're gonna have at the camp? Jocka White Tea.

• 2:27:41Speaker 01

  Dig it.

• 2:27:43Jocko Willink?

  We have plenty of it. So, uh, you, if you, if you're not coming to camp and you want Jocka White Tea, you can go get it on Amazon. If you're, if you're sick and tired of deadlifting less than eight thousand pounds, order some immediately.

• 2:27:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:57Jocko Willink?

  Also, weigh the Warrior Kid. And thank you for all this awesome feedback that everyone's been giving me of kids getting stronger and faster and smarter and better.

• 2:28:09Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. So if you have a kid or you know a kid, get him or her this book. And by the way, if you're wondering, well, Warrior Kid, is that for girls? Believe me. Well, what does your girl think of it?

• 2:28:22Speaker 01

  Outstanding.

• 2:28:23Jocko Willink?

  It doesn't matter. So they need it. We all need it. So get one for yourself as, as well.

• 2:28:35Jocko Willink?

  There's lessons for everybody in there from Uncle Jake.

• 2:28:37Speaker 01

  True.

• 2:28:38Jocko Willink?

  Uh, the other one, got another book coming out, Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Now, if you want a feel-good book, if you want a book that's gonna fill you with a bunch of fantasies, don't get this book. The book is not for you. This book is real. This book is gonna hit you hard. And if you don't wanna get hit hard, then don't order it. If you wanna be coddled, don't get this book. If you wanna be lied to, don't get this book.

• 2:29:06Jocko Willink?

  But if you want the truth, and if you wanna get stronger, faster, smarter, and better, then yes, go ahead and order this book. Order it from your local bookstore. Go into them.

• 2:29:21Jocko Willink?

  And say, uh, you know, can I order this book? And when you get it in, can you just put it in the get after it section for me so I can find it?

• 2:29:31Jocko Willink?

  So this clinical freedom field manual, order it online, Barnes and Nobles, Amazon, your local bookstore, put the word out. Of course, you can also get extreme ownership. Ownership is a key word there, and I recommend you own it. Get that book, own it yourself and get it your team. This copies as well, so that you can go out and annihilate your enemy or your competitor or whoever's bothering you.

• 2:30:04Jocko Willink?

  We also have Echelon Front Leadership Consulting. No one else can do what we do.

• 2:30:09Jocko Willink?

  And I'm saying that right now. And the reason I'm saying that now is because we've been doing it long enough. And I've seen what other people do from a leadership perspective in consulting. No one else can do what we do. So if you need leadership alignment, so your team can win. You got me, Leif, JP, Dave. It's our company. Don't book us through a speakers agent. Don't book us through our online book agent. Go to echelonfront.com or email [email protected]. And finally, the muster. The next muster. September 14th and 15th in San Diego. This is kind of crazy.

• 2:30:54Jocko Willink?

  We've already sold more than half the tickets. So this is absolutely going to sell out, just like it sold out the first time in San Diego, just like it sold out in New York City, just like it sold out in Austin, Texas. Don't get left out in the cold. Get registered, extremeownership.com, come and come and get it. And while you're waiting for the immersion camp or while you're waiting for the muster, we're not hard to find. Cause we're rolling on the interwebs, kind of hard, actually. Extra hard. We're on Twitter.

• 2:31:31Jocko Willink?

  The Instagram and that facey boy.

• 2:31:37Jocko Willink?

  Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. And finally, thanks to everyone that makes this podcast possible. First and foremost, our military, who keeps us free to create and grow and live the way we want to live. Thanks to you all for holding the line.

• 2:32:01Jocko Willink?

  And thanks also to police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, and other first responders. Thank you all for making this podcast possible

• 2:32:14Jocko Willink?

  by keeping us safe here on the home front. So thanks to you all as well. And finally, to everyone else out there,

• 2:32:23Jocko Willink?

  whether you're going through good times or bad times, whether you're winning the game or you're making a comeback, whether you're building a house or a road or a bridge or a piece of software, whether you're assembling a car or assembling a meeting,

• 2:32:46Jocko Willink?

  or if you're in a diner,

• 2:32:50Jocko Willink?

  pouring a cup of coffee for someone that's about to go out and pour concrete,

• 2:32:57Jocko Willink?

  whether you're sowing seeds in a field

• 2:33:02Jocko Willink?

  or sowing the stitches into a gi, no matter what you're doing and what you come up against,

• 2:33:12Jocko Willink?

  fight hard.

• 2:33:15Jocko Willink?

  Do it with everything you've got and no matter what,

• 2:33:21Jocko Willink?

  never quit. And always,

• 2:33:27Jocko Willink?

  always

• 2:33:30Jocko Willink?

  keep getting after it.

• 2:33:35Jocko Willink?

  So until next time,

• 2:33:39Jocko Willink?

  this is Echo and Jocko. Out.