80: How The Way of The Samurai Translates to Life Today. Musashi, "The Book of Five Rings"

0:00:00 - Opening 0:07:51 - Musashi, "The Book of Five Rings" http://amzn.to/2rBxiId 0:49:40 - Normal Face. 2:18:26 - Support, Cool Onnit http://www.onnit.com/jocko, JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, with Jocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual http://amzn.to/2szgaEj, and The Muster 003 http://www.extremeownership.com. 2:38:44 - Closing Gratitude Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number eighty with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:12Jocko Willink?

  Taki Zoh lay among the corpses.

• 0:17Jocko Willink?

  There were thousands of them.

• 0:20Jocko Willink?

  "The whole world's gone crazy," he thought dimly. "A man might as well be a dead leaf floating in the autumn breeze."

• 0:31Jocko Willink?

  He himself looked like one of the lifeless bodies surrounding him. He tried to raise his head but could only lift it a few inches from the ground.

• 0:42Jocko Willink?

  He couldn't remember ever feeling so weak.

• 0:47Jocko Willink?

  "How long have I been here?" he wondered. Flies came buzzing about his head. He wanted to brush them away, but he couldn't even muster the energy to raise his arm. It was stiff, almost brittle like the rest of his body. "I must have been out here for quite a while," he thought, wiggling one finger at a time. Little did he know, he was wounded with two bullets lodged firmly in his thigh.

• 1:16Jocko Willink?

  Low dark clouds shifted ominously across the sky. The night before, sometime between midnight and dawn, a blinding rain had drenched the plain of Sagikahara.

• 1:31Jocko Willink?

  It was now past noon on the fifteenth of the ninth month of sixteen hundred. Though the typhoon had passed, now and then fresh torrents of rain would fall on the corpses and on Taki Zoh's upturned face.

• 1:47Jocko Willink?

  Each time it came, he'd open and close his mouth like a fish trying to drink in the droplets.

• 1:55Jocko Willink?

  "It's like the water they wipe a dying man's lips with," he reflected, savoring each bit of moisture. His head was numb, his thoughts the fleeting shadows of delirium. His side had lost. He knew that much.

• 2:14Jocko Willink?

  Kobayewaka Hadiki, supposedly an ally, had been secretly in league with the eastern army. And when he turned on Ashida Mitsuari's troops at twilight, the tide of the battle turned to. He then attacked the armies of other commanders, Yukida, Shimazu, and Konishi. And the collapse of the western army was complete. In only half a day's fighting, the question of who would henceforth rule the country was settled. It was Tokugawa Yasu, the powerful Ido Daimo.

• 2:56Jocko Willink?

  Images of his sister and the old villagers floated before his eyes.

• 3:03Jocko Willink?

  "I'm dying," he thought without a tinge of sadness.

• 3:09Jocko Willink?

  "Is this what it's really like?" He felt drawn to the peace of death, like a child mesmerized by a flame.

• 3:24Jocko Willink?

  And that right there is the opening of the novel called Musashi by Iji Yoki Shawa. And it's a giant novel, and it's about the life of Miyamoto Musashi, the Japanese swordsman from the late 1500s and early 1600s, and he's probably the most famous swordsman from Japan.

• 3:51Jocko Willink?

  And I apologize for my pronunciation of Japanese names, I'll have to work on that.

• 3:58Jocko Willink?

  But Musashi, which is a book we are going to cover, we're not covering it today. We're going to cover it in Podcast 100 that was decided upon when Tim Ferriss came on the podcast. We're going to cover the novel Musashi. And again, Musashi was a swordsman, probably the most famous Japanese swordsman. He was born into a samurai family around 1584. And there's a lot of questions around his upbringing.

• 4:32Jocko Willink?

  But the reports are

• 4:35Jocko Willink?

  that his father was a very tough and demanding samurai. And then at some point around age 10, his father was either killed or something else happened and he's basically disappeared. Now, Musashi fought his first duel at age 13

• 4:56Jocko Willink?

  against a grown man

• 4:59Jocko Willink?

  who he killed by throwing him to the ground and then beating him with a bokken, which is basically a wooden sword. And he fought multiple battles defending the Toyotomi clan, which is who he was aligned with. And he continued to fight these duels,

• 5:22Jocko Willink?

  amassing more than 60 wins. Now, some of these duels are to the death, some of them aren't. They actually agree upon what they're going to do before they fight. And he won all the ones that he participated in. And his most famous duel was against a guy named Kojiro, also known as Ganryu. And he was the biggest rival of Musashi.

• 5:52Jocko Willink?

  And they were both at the time when they fought like the most famous and feared swordsman in Japan. And then after that.

• 6:01Jocko Willink?

  He went back and he was a warrior. So he went back, he continued in combat. He had a few more duels after that.

• 6:09Jocko Willink?

  And most of that, his life and how that went up until that final duel is portrayed in this book. And it's historical fiction, right? There's not that much truly known about his life. And so this book that's written by Iji Yoki Shawa, Yoshi Kawa, sorry, it's, it's a huge book. And like I said, we're going to cover it on Podcast 100. And when we cover it, by the way, spoiler alert. Um, that's why we've been telling people since Podcast number 50, because the book has one of the most astounding endings of any book. And this thousand page book, it all builds towards this final ending, which is

• 6:53Jocko Willink?

  literally on the last two pages. It like the ending happens and then it's over. And it's awesome and it's worth it. But before we cover that book, I, I thought it would be smart to cover two things that Musashi actually wrote himself.

• 7:12Jocko Willink?

  So after that duel, that famous duel with Kojiro, he became a retainer for some Royals and he was, you know, basically a warrior on staff. And as he got older, he ended up writing, the first thing he wrote was a book called The Book of Five Rings, which is really famous. Everybody knows it.

• 7:34Jocko Willink?

  It's correctly translated or alternative translation is The Book of Five Spheres. And another thing that he wrote was the Dokodo, which one of the translations is the way of walking alone. And we'll get to that, but first we're going to talk about the book that this famous swordsman actually wrote, which is pretty cool when you think about it. So let's dive in to The Book of Five Rings. Go into the book. "I've set my mind on the science of martial arts since my youth long ago. I was 13 years old when I had my first duel. On that occasion, I won over my opponent."

• 8:20Jocko Willink?

  A martial artist named Arima Kihii of the new school of accuracy. You like that? You like that? That's the name of the school. The new school of accuracy. At age, at sixteen years of age, I beat a powerful martial artist called Akiyama of the Tajima province. When I was twenty-one, I went to the capital city and met martial artists from all over the country. Although I engaged in numerous duels, never did I fail to attain victory. After that, I traveled from province to province, meeting martial artists of the various schools. Although I duelled more than sixty times, never once did I lose.

• 9:02Jocko Willink?

  That all took place between the time I was thirteen years old and the time I was twenty-nine.

• 9:09Jocko Willink?

  When I had passed the age of thirty and reflected on my experiences, I realized that I had not been victorious because of consummate attainment of martial arts. Interesting statement. He's like, I wasn't victorious because of my supreme martial arts. Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and had not deviated from natural principles. It may also been due to the shortcomings in the martial arts of other schools.

• 9:38Jocko Willink?

  In any case, I subsequently practiced day and night in order to attain an even deeper principle and spontaneously came upon the science of martial arts. I was about fifty years old at that time. So, looking back, and I feel the same way. When I look back at my military career, I think of all the things that I could do so much better now. When we, if we wrote, if I would have had to write Extreme Ownership when I was a task unit commander, I wouldn't have been able to put together because I didn't have all that knowledge, I couldn't see it. And so, I had to actually go through it and then look back and reflect on it, and then I understand my, my own lessons better. And they actually become more clear to me, you know, with every day that goes by, I

• 10:21Jocko Willink?

  understand a deeper principle of what I originally thought worked. And I understand them more clearly.

• 10:31Jocko Willink?

  Since then, I have passed the time with no science into which to inquire, trusting in the advantage of military science as I turned it into the sciences of all arts and skills. I have no teacher in anything. So, he's taken what he learned from the military and from martial sciences. And he just applies it to everything. He doesn't have any other sciences. Don't need them.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:55Jocko Willink?

  Now, in composing this book,

• 10:58Jocko Willink?

  I have not borrowed the old sayings of Buddhism or Confucianism, nor do I make use of old stories from military records or books on military science. Again, I love this. He doesn't quote other things. He doesn't, he's not pulling quotes and using them. He's just, he's using his own words.

• 11:16Jocko Willink?

  With heaven and, and canon for mirrors, I take up the brush and begin to write at 4 a.m. on the night of the 10th of the 10th month, 1643.

• 11:31Jocko Willink?

  I had to include that because clearly he's, he's up before the enemy, even though he's a retired soldier, 50 years old. He's, actually, he's older than that, 1643. He's quite on a bit.

• 11:44Jocko Willink?

  He's up early and he's writing this stuff now. And again, it's amazing. You can sit here and read what he wrote in 1643. Back to the book, martial arts are the warrior's way of life. Commanders in particular should practice these arts and soldiers must know this way of life. In the present day, there are no warriors with certain knowledge of the way of martial arts. Can you imagine he's saying that when the, there's literally samurais in existence in Japan? And he's like, these guys don't get it. Imagine what he'd be saying right now, today.

• 12:24Jocko Willink?

  First, let us illustrate the idea of a way of life. For the physician, healing is a way of life. A poet teaches the art of poetry. Others pursue fortune telling, archery, or various other arts and crafts. People practice the ways to which they are inclined, develop individual preferences. Few people are fond of the martial way of life. First of all, the way of the warriors, the way of warriors means familiarity with both cultural and martial arts. Even if they are clumsy at this, individual warriors should strengthen their own martial arts as much as is practical in their circumstances.

• 13:06Jocko Willink?

  So, he does say that a bunch. You've gotta be familiar with all, you know, obviously he's focused on martial arts, but you've gotta be familiar with the cultural arts as well.

• 13:16Jocko Willink?

  People usually think that all warriors think about is being ready to die.

• 13:23Jocko Willink?

  As far as the way of death is concerned, it is not limited to warriors. Medicants, women, farmers, and even those below them know their duty, are ashamed to neglect it, and resign themselves to death. There is no distinction in this respect. The martial way of life practiced by warriors is based on excelling others in anything and everything.

• 13:54Jocko Willink?

  I like that. And that is actually what Uncle Jake, in the book Way of the Warrior Kid, tells young Mark. What's a warrior? A warrior's the one that's doing his best in everything that he does. So, I'm down with Musashi on that one. Whether by victory in an individual duel, or by winning a battle with several people, one thinks of serving the interests of one's employers, of serving one's own interests, of becoming well-known and socially established. This is all possible by the power of martial arts.

• 14:29Jocko Willink?

  Yet, there will be people in the world who think that even if you learn martial arts, this will not prove useful when a real need arises. Regarding that concern, the true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time. And teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things.

• 14:58Jocko Willink?

  Clearly, I subscribe to this. And that's why Extreme Ownership, the book, we say all the time, it's applications to the battlefield, to business, and to life. All the same. It's all the same.

• 15:18Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, the field of martial arts is particularly rife with flamboyant showmanship, with commercial popularization and profiteering on part of both those who teach the science and those who study it. The result of this must be, as someone said, that amateuristic martial arts are a source of serious wounds. So, do we see this today? Yes, we do. We see it across the board. We see it with actual martial arts schools in the modern sense of a martial arts school. And that's being beat down a little bit right now, right? Because we have MMA, we have jiu-jitsu, we can actually test, and you can't just run

• 16:01Jocko Willink?

  around doing acrobatic kicks that aren't actually functional.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, or that magic one that they do.

• 16:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, or the dimak where you're gonna like, I'm gonna touch your neck and you're gonna fall to the ground. So that stuff has been pretty crushed by, not only by MMA, but also by the interwebs as a whole, has fought against that. Remember that website? I think it's Bullshido?

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Oh, Bullshido, yeah, yeah.

• 16:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, legit, because they could go through, show everyone that's full of crap.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:31Jocko Willink?

  The Bullshido guys. They've been around for a long time, too. That website's been around for a long time. Bullshido, I think it's Bullshido.com.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:38Jocko Willink?

  And they show everyone that's full of crap, right? Hey, if I settle my chi and aim my chi at you, I can knock you out, right? And people actually paid money for that stuff.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's crazy how the guys who go to debunk it, they'll like, I've, I, you see actually more than one where the guys will go to the dojo and be like, hey, I'm a skeptic, you know, do your thing to me and knock me down. And the guy will be like, okay. And then they'll, they'll follow through with it. Let them film and everything.

• 17:05Jocko Willink?

  Joe Rogan and I were talking about that, that situation that just happened in China where the Tai Chi guy went against an MMA guy and got, obviously got destroyed.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:13Jocko Willink?

  Because it doesn't work.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's nothing new. There's

• 17:15Jocko Willink?

  No, it's nothing new. And you know what I said on that? I mean, that kind of stuff is, I think those kinds of martial arts are supposed to be more like yoga, you know? It's about stretching. It's about movement. It's about proprioception. It's, it's fine to do. That's cool. But it's not going to stop somebody from doing a double leg on you. It's not going to stop somebody from throwing a, a four punch combination at your head.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. A trained guy who holds one arm and just beats you down with the

• 17:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And then, and then the other part of this is you get the guys that are out there, you know, talking about the mental mindset of the special ops and all that. And it's like, mm, they're trying to sell magic, right? Same thing. Same thing. The flamboyant, this is what you need to do. It's like, mm, be tougher. How's that?

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:58Jocko Willink?

  How about you give that one a crack? But they want to sell the, the flamboyant, what does he say here? Flamboyant showmanship. And, and you know, you can sell the, the, the, you can sell to people's weaknesses, right? You can sell the, I'm scared. Yeah, the mystique. You can sell the mystique. You can sell to people's weaknesses. You know, if you, oh, remember the old, he might not be old enough. Did, did you ever read Soldier of Fortune magazine when you were a kid?

• 18:25Speaker 01

  No, I know what that is.

• 18:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. But, but, but when I was a kid, you know, I was interested in war and so Soldier of Fortune. If I can get my hands on a copy, I read it. And there would be things in there, you know, devastating 14 moves that you learn and you will never lose a street fight. And people would say, yeah, you know, that's cool. I'm going to order this, this V, VHS tape that'll have the solutions. And you just

• 18:51Speaker 01

  You know.

• 18:52Jocko Willink?

  It's.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  We'll say it's not applicable.

• 18:55Jocko Willink?

  Yes, generally not applicable. Now, of course, if you teach someone some aggressive movements that they're gonna do and they're gonna memorize those movements, and then they do it to a person that doesn't know how to fight.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, untrained.

• 19:08Jocko Willink?

  Actually, they will. Those movements can be effective. I'm gonna punch you in the head seventeen times. You know, you come up to me and say, hey, you got a problem, and then I punch you in the head seventeen times.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:17Jocko Willink?

  With with no warning. Like, that that actually, okay, yeah, it worked. I I put the person down and then I ran away. That's great. It works. But it didn't, you know, when somebody came up and squared off to me, or we had a real legitimate situation, it's not gonna work.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:32Jocko Willink?

  Your false sense of security is isn't isn't gonna help you out anymore.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  Carry you through, no.

• 19:39Jocko Willink?

  So I think it's very interesting that in fourteen fifty.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we're dealing with this. Or what? No, no, sorry, not fourteen fifty. It's sixteen forty-three. We're dealing with the same stuff.

• 19:51Jocko Willink?

  Human nature doesn't change.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 19:54Jocko Willink?

  All right, going back to the book. In regard to the warrior knight, that path involves constructing all sorts of weapons and understanding the various properties of weapons. This is imperative for warriors. Failure to master weaponry and comprehend the specific advantages of each weapon would seem to indicate a lack of cultivation in a member of a warrior house. I will illustrate the science of martial arts by likening it to the way of a carpenter. Now, I think this is important because it's telling you that no matter what your business is, you gotta get in the game. You gotta know the various tools of the trade, whether that's the business world, whether that's construction, whether that's,

• 20:33Jocko Willink?

  no matter what you do, you need to open your mind up, don't be scared, and and study what it is in your craft. And you know, I'd get these guys, these young SEAL officers. And they'd be embarrassed that they didn't know something about a radio, or they'd be embarrassed that they didn't know something about a sniper weapon. And I would just say, look, when you don't know something, you go up to the sniper and you say, hey, man, can you get, can you give me a familiarization on that weapon? Or you go up to the radio man and say, hey, can you teach me how to program this radio? Cause I don't know how to do it. That's what we're talking about here. Instead of just ignoring it or pretending or trying to hide from it, get out there and ask them. And believe me, the sniper and the radio man, they don't look down on you because you said to them, can you show me how to do this? They look at you and say, oh, cool. He's humble and he wants to learn.

• 21:18Jocko Willink?

  I'm here, let's make it happen.

• 21:24Jocko Willink?

  So now going back to this, this idea of the, of the carpenter as an example, back to the book, when sorting out timber for building a house, that which is straight, free from knots and of good appearance can be used for front pillars. That which has some knots, but is straight and strong can be used for rear pillars. That which is somewhat weak, it has no knots and looks good, is variously used for door sills, lintels, doors and screens. That which is knotted and crooked, but nevertheless strong, is used thoughtfully in consideration of the strength of the various members of the house. Then the house will last a long time. Even knotted, crooked and weak timber can be made into scaffolding and later used for firewood.

• 22:09Jocko Willink?

  Now, what I like about that is from a leadership perspective, guess what that means? That means you look at your team and you're going to have some strong, squared away looking individuals and squared away acting individuals. They're going to be part of your team and you're going to have some members of your team that are not so squared away, they got some knots in them and they're a little bit crooked. And what you have to do is you have to learn how are you going to use them? Where are you going to put them? They can still, you might have someone that's strong, a little rough around the edges. They're going to be a supporting pillar, not the pillar that you're going to put out front, which is the nice clean cut looking individual who's also sharp. So as a leader, you have to do that. You have to get what you can out of all your. Out of all your pieces of wood. I love the idea from a leadership perspective, the idea

• 22:53Jocko Willink?

  of looking at it as a, as being a carpenter, because there's a couple of different things. Not only do you have to learn how to use these different tools of leadership. So there's all these different tools that you use in leadership. There's all these different ways of communicating with people and, and how you interact with people. And you have to learn all those different tools. But then you have to learn that you need to use the tools differently on different human beings, because they're going to take a different reaction to them. And then the different types of human beings actually have individual personalities. So it's exactly like woodworking in the fact that you've got, not only do you have different types of wood, but you also have different types of wood that has individual issues. Like a piece of

• 23:36Jocko Willink?

  birch is a lot different than a piece of epe. Epe is hard hardwood. Epe, I think it has a burn rating that is higher or the same as concrete. Think about that. I'm not kidding. You throw epe in the water, it sinks. I got a deck made out of epe. It's awesome. Just, it's, it's a very hardwood, but you can't use, you have to use a different tool. You have to use the tool differently than you would with a piece of pine, which is very soft. And that's the way people are too. That's the way human beings are. You have to know how to use the tools. And then you have to learn how to modulate the tools correctly with each individual piece of lumber.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. You see it a lot in like team sports, like in football, for example, you get a guy, he's, he don't, he doesn't know how to do anything. You can't teach him. He's, I don't know, whatever. But he has a hard head, you know, and he's just down for the cause. That's it. It's like, dang, seemingly useless. You put him on special teams. You put him on the kickoff. And you make him a wedge breaker. There you are. Boom. Best wedge breaker in the game. Yeah.

• 24:39Jocko Willink?

  Get some. Exactly.

• 24:42Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. Speaking in terms of carpentry, soldiers sharpen their own tools, make various useful implements, and keep them in their utility boxes.

• 24:55Jocko Willink?

  Obviously, same correlations there. Back to the book, I have written this book in five scrolls entitled Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Emptiness. And this is, "The true science cannot be attained just by mastery of swordsmanship alone." So you gotta get more, and I've, I think it was on the first Tim Ferriss podcast I was on, I think he asked me, "What was the most complicated mission that you did?" And I was like, "Hey, the missions aren't complicated. What's complicated is dealing with human beings." That's the hard part. That's the hard part of leadership. Dealing with shooting a machine gun?

• 25:36Jocko Willink?

  I mean, there's some skill to it, but it's infinitely easier than trying to lead men in combat.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:46Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, "The way to do battle is the same whether it is a battle between one individual and another, or a battle between one army and another. You should observe reflectively with overall awareness of the large picture as well as precise attention to small details. The large scale is easy to see, the small scale is hard to see. To be specific, it is impossible to reverse the direction of a large group of people all at once, while the small scale is hard to know, because in the case of an individual, there's just one will involved and changes can be made quickly. This should be given careful consideration."

• 26:28Jocko Willink?

  So you can see a big group, when they're trying to turn, you can, you can know. And but with this one individual, you're not really a hundred percent sure what they're thinking. Then he talks a lot about this. He talks about a lot about the elevation and how you have to step back and look at things from different perspectives. And also, I'm going to make this note right now, he's got these little lines at the end of so many of his paragraphs, like this one, "This should be given careful consideration." He says those kinds of things a lot. And I, I'm not going to do all of them, but I'm definitely going to give enough to give the feeling of the book, which is very, it's very instructional in the way it's talking to you, which I dig.

• 27:09Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, um, this is interesting. Back to the book, unless you really understand others, you can hardly attain your own self-understanding. That's, that's the opposite of what we normally think. We think, oh, I gotta know myself first, and then I can understand other people. He's saying you gotta understand other people, and then you, then you get to understand yourself. And I think that's very useful because we should see ourselves in other people. We should look at other people and say, I know what they're doing. I, I do that too.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:38Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, in the practice of every way of life and every kind of work, there's a state of mind called that of the deviant. Even if you strive diligently on your chosen path, day after day, if your heart is not in accord with it, then even if you think you're on a good path from the point of view of the straight and true, this is not a genuine path. If you do not pursue a genuine path to its consummation, then a little bit of crookedness in the mind will later turn into a major warp. Reflect on this.

• 28:14Jocko Willink?

  Right? And that's great advice. And you know what, you know what that makes me think of? Is when people ask me, which they ask me a lot, about joining the military. Hey, you know, I wanna, I wanna join the military, I wanna go in the SEAL teams, I wanna support the country. That's awesome. But you better make sure that you're doing it, because it's a true path to your heart. If you're doing it for some other alternative reason, it's not, it's gonna be a warp that'll show up later. Now, doing four years, a four-year hitch in the Marine Corps, in the Army, in the Navy, in the Air Force, is gonna be good for you. And it's not like it's a like, permanent lifetime thing, and it'll probably teach you a lot. But if you're gonna do something, you gotta remember that you sign that dotted line,

• 28:59Jocko Willink?

  and you might be going to war.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:01Jocko Willink?

  And if you have that, if you're not doing it for the right reasons, you're gonna be, you're not gonna be a happy person when you're over in, in, in the combat zone.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 29:12Jocko Willink?

  It's not gonna happen. So...

• 29:15Jocko Willink?

  Stay true to your path and make sure that the path that you're on is is something that you really want to do, something you really want to believe in. Or something that you really believe in. Now, Musashi fought with two swords. A longer sword and a short sword. That was kind of his trademark and it's, he's, I think he's credited with creating that form of fighting. And both, some other Samurai carried two swords, like a primary and a secondary. But he used two swords simultaneously. Which is pretty legit. Yeah, yeah.

• 29:50Jocko Willink?

  So, back to the book. "The real thing is to practice the science wielding both swords. The long sword in one hand and the short sword in the other. When your life is on the line, you want to make use of all your tools. No warrior should be willing to die with his swords at his side without having made use of his tools. However, when you hold something with both hands, you cannot wield it freely both right and left. My purpose is to get you used to wielding the long sword with one hand."

• 30:23Jocko Willink?

  So, know your tools, practice with them. Here we go. "The long sword seems heavy and unwieldy to everyone at first. But everything is like that when you first take it up. A bow is hard to draw. A halberd is hard to swing. In any case, when you become accustomed to each weapon, you become stronger at the bow and you acquire the ability to wield the long sword.

• 30:49Jocko Willink?

  So when you attain the power of the way, it becomes easy to handle." What's that saying? It's saying, "Practice." And it's also saying the same thing that one Uncle Jake told young Mark. "Hey, you're not gonna be good at this at first. Of course you can't do pull-ups. You haven't practiced them. Of course you don't know your times tables. You haven't practiced them." And it's the same thing in any job that you're in. You have to practice it. You're not just born, you're not just born programmed. You have to program your own mind. Work you have to do. Back to the book, in my individual school, one can win with the long sword, and one can win with the short sword as well.

• 31:30Jocko Willink?

  For this reason, the precise size of the long sword is not fixed. The way of my school is the spirit of gaining victory by any means. And what I like about this, and he talks about this more, and I don't know how much of a hit, but he's got an open mind. Even though he's very direct about what he knows works, he's also saying, hey, look, the sword, don't worry about the length of the sword. I'm worried about what works and winning and achieving victory by any means necessary. That's an open mind.

• 32:02Jocko Willink?

  In the martial arts of my individual school, it is the same for one man as it is for 10,000.

• 32:10Jocko Willink?

  As far as paths are concerned, and well, before I go on past that, this is why, for me, it's very easy to make these correlations, because I talk about all the time the similarities between jiu-jitsu, which is a one-on-one match against another human being, and being on the battlefield. And the things that you're doing are the same. Yeah. The combat principles don't change. You're trying to flank people, you're not trying to attack the hardened targets. You've got to know when to back off, you've got to know when to attack, you've got to seize the moments, all those things are the same. So Musashi realized this, obviously.

• 32:49Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, as far as paths are concerned, there are Confucians, Buddhists, tea connoisseurs, teachers of etiquette, dancers, and so on. These things do not exist in the way of warriors. But even if they are not your path, if you have wide knowledge of the ways, you encounter them in everything. In any case, as human beings, it is essential for each of us to cultivate and polish our own individual path.

• 33:25Jocko Willink?

  Important.

• 33:29Jocko Willink?

  And again, I get questions about life. People want to make decisions about their life. And the answer is, look, go out, research, but you need to cultivate your own path. You need to figure out, and you can do that. You need to learn, you need to educate, and I certainly answer all kinds of questions about that. But at the end of the day, the person that's signing the dotted line, the person that's going to, you know, drop out of college, they can join the military or drop out of their,

• 34:04Jocko Willink?

  sometimes I'll get, hey, you know, I want to start, I want to leave this job to start my own business, right? Those are the kind of things, they're big decisions. And you gotta, you gotta make that, like, I can't be responsible for that decision.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:16Jocko Willink?

  That, that, I, I can give you some perspective, and my perspective is, you know, for those, you gotta know if you're going to join the military, you better know that that's truly what you want to do. For leaving your job that you don't like anymore, because you want to start something new? Set things up, set up an exit strategy, plan for it, suck up the job that you don't like, while you're saving money, while you're getting a, a, a landing place ready, and then slowly, you know, make your transition when it, when the time is right.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:46Jocko Willink?

  Don't just get frustrated one day, quit.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:49Jocko Willink?

  And then you're sitting there with no income, no way to get anything started. Then you're desperate.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:55Jocko Willink?

  And when you're desperate, things aren't going to go well. It's not good to be desperate.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you hear that, that romantic story where, you know, this guy did that, you know? He was tired of his job, so he just up and quit, and then he got desperate and he bounced back and all this stuff.

• 35:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and what's that bias that you get where the only people that you hear about are the ones that actually pulled it off?

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Availability.

• 35:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, availability bias. So, that's what happens. We only hear about this guy that quit his job and started this thing in his garage, and now he's a billionaire. That's cool, but there's a lot of people that never made it out the garage.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Still there.

• 35:30Jocko Willink?

  And they ended up, you know, a job they didn't want, even worse.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, or went back the next week begging for their job back, and they got a small demotion, and, you know, whatever.

• 35:42Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. In distinguishing the advantages of the tools of warriors, we find that whatever the weapon, there is a time and a situation in which it is appropriate. Absolutely.

• 35:55Jocko Willink?

  Listen to this. You should not have any special fondness for a particular weapon, or anything else for that matter.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  Ooh dang.

• 36:05Jocko Willink?

  Too much is the same as not enough. To entertain likes and dislikes is bad for both commanders and soldiers. Pragmatic thinking is essential. I mean, just, just insert that. Open your brain and put that in there. So often, we get the little likes and dislikes. You know what a pet peeve of mine is?

• 36:29Speaker 01

  What?

• 36:29Jocko Willink?

  The word pet peeve. That, that bothers me. And there's nothing, you know, I saw Charlie Plum last, this past week.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:39Jocko Willink?

  And I was telling him about that, one of the biggest things that I took away from sitting and talking to him, was that whole idea that if you do something that annoys me, it's my fault.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:52Jocko Willink?

  It's my fault for being annoyed. No, no, it's my fault for being annoyed and I need to get fixed.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:56Jocko Willink?

  So if I have a pet peeve that Echo flittles his pen around, that's not your fault. That's my fault. I need to get over it.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:04Jocko Willink?

  As long as the pen's not clicking. If it's clicking, then it's our problem.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  Right, that's.

• 37:08Jocko Willink?

  But, but that's so important. And to, to think about this, we do, we have, and we have, we, we like things. And you know what we generally like? What we're good at.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:18Jocko Willink?

  Right? Think about jujitsu.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:20Jocko Willink?

  What, what do I, what am I, I'm so guilty of this. I'm like, I submitted 14 people today. Come here, come here, come here, come here, all of them.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:28Jocko Willink?

  Right? Or guillotine, guillotine. Right? I don't open my brain up enough.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Guard pass one side only.

• 37:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Guard pass one side only. That's, we, I gotta break that.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:37Jocko Willink?

  I gotta get more, I gotta get less fondness for particular weapons.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  That's such good, it's because, almost because it's so hard, that's such good advice.

• 37:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's so hard.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  I mean, think about everything, even like, you know, you probably have your favorite gun. You have your favorite everything, really. I prefer the, I prefer gi, I prefer no gi, I prefer this gun. I prefer the, you know.

• 37:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 38:01Jocko Willink?

  Gotta be careful of that.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:02Jocko Willink?

  Pragmatic thinking is essential. Now, here we go back to the book. Rhythm is something that exists in everything. But the rhythms of martial arts, in particular, are difficult to master without practice. Harmony and disharmony and rhythm occur in every walk of life. It is imperative to distinguish carefully between the rhythms of flourishing and the rhythms of decline in every single thing.

• 38:34Jocko Willink?

  The way to win in a battle, according to military science, is to know the rhythms of specific, of the specific opponents and use rhythms that your opponents do not expect, producing formless rhythms from rhythms of wisdom. And this is just so classic. And you think about on the battlefield, this is what maneuver warfare is, right? This is tempo. They talk about it in terms of tempo. When Brian Stan was on, he's talking about maintaining that tempo. And then what you need to do is you need to maintain the faster tempo than your enemy can maintain. And when you can maintain that tempo, or you disrupt the tempo, or you disrupt their tempo, that's how you're going to achieve victory. Obviously, it's the same thing in jujitsu.

• 39:17Jocko Willink?

  I'm keeping you, you know, I'm pressing one side, pressing one side, pressing one side. Boom, I disrupt, I go the other side, I just pass your guard.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:25Jocko Willink?

  I break your tempo. And even in basketball or soccer, that soccer, that change of pace. You know, you come down the field going at a certain speed, then you speed up, slow down, and you change that tempo. That's how you, that's how you pass.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Yep. Boxing too, you know, the whole idea of a counter punch is that.

• 39:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  What did Salo, Salo Ribero has this really famous saying. He said, it's about being late, you know? So like if someone basically out temples you or out, or disrupts your pattern, and then now you have to catch up when you're late. He says, when you're late, you muscle. When you muscle, you tire, and when you tire, you die.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  I might have missed one, but I think that's it.

• 40:07Jocko Willink?

  Those are pretty straightforward. I don't know what you would have missed, because that's true. When you get someone off tempo, it's... Or when someone has me off tempo? Ugh. Because now you're chasing them. You're trying to hang on, and things are happening, and you don't know it.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if he does that thing where he keeps the pace, and you... Man, he just... It's like he's pulling ahead, pulling ahead, until you're like... Until you die.

• 40:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, until you die.

• 40:35Jocko Willink?

  Here we go. Just straight breaking it down right here. Back to the book. For people who want to learn my military science, there are rules for learning the art. One: Think of what is right and true. Two: Practice and cultivate the science. Three: Become acquainted with the arts. Four: Know the principles of the crafts.

• 41:02Jocko Willink?

  Five: Understand the harm and benefit in everything. Six: Learn to see everything accurately. Seven: Become aware of what is not obvious. Eight: Be careful even in small matters. Nine: Do not do anything useless.

• 41:28Jocko Willink?

  If we could... If everyone could just do nine, not do anything useless?

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:33Jocko Willink?

  Think about that. Think about how powerful that is. Think how much useless stuff that we do, and it's useless. It's not helping us.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what we were talking about, um, I don't know, maybe last sermon, a few weeks ago, about distraction. That's really what it is, distraction. Useless.

• 41:47Jocko Willink?

  But stop those. The other... A couple of these... Understand the harm and benefit of everything. Learn to see everything accurately. Become aware of what is not obvious. Those, to me, are all about detachment. You've got to be able to detach from what's going on to be able to see things accurately. You've got to be able to detach to be able to see the harm and benefit in things. You've got to be able to detach to be able to see what's not obvious. And the more caught up you are in your head, or in the chaos, in the situation, the more you're going to miss those important factors right there.

• 42:20Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. First of all, keep martial arts on your mind and work diligently in a straightforward manner. Then you can win with your hands and you can defeat people by seeing with your eyes. Furthermore, when you refine your practice to the point where you can attain freedom of the whole body, then you can overcome people by means of your body. And since your mind is trained in this science, you can also overcome people by means of mind. When you reach this point, how could you be defeated by others?

• 42:56Jocko Willink?

  So, he's talking about you need to refine your practice to the point where you get freedom. I think I might have said something along those lines, right? Discipline equals freedom, all day long, all day long. Refine your practice until you attain freedom. Think about that. Practice until you get free.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:15Jocko Willink?

  You don't just expect freedom. You don't get freedom by acting free. No, you get freedom by discipline.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, so like jujitsu, for example, right? You know how when you're a white belt, brand new, they teach you the move. Here's the move, here's the step one, step two, step three. You practice that enough times along with all the other moves, now you're just jumping in there and flying, the moves are flying, you know, just going on almost automatically, you know, you're just free to do whatever move at whatever time you want.

• 43:41Jocko Willink?

  It's the exact same thing on the battlefield. You drill drills and you become, your team, your platoon, your squad becomes so fluid with them that they can adapt and they can change them, because that's what we're really talking about. They have the freedom to move. They have the free, they know the rules so intuitively that they become just part of the way they act as humans. It's like when you, have you ever been showing a move in jujitsu or someone's been showing a move on you, right? Like, let's say you're gonna, you're gonna show the, the guillotine on me. And so you, you pull me over and you, you shuck me down and as you shuck me down, I counter it. Like, not in, not, not on purpose, because I know you're just trying to show the move, but I like automatically turn my head, grab your arm, and I'm just like, oh, I can't do that right now. I can't counter the move.

• 44:23Jocko Willink?

  But that, that's not my, that's not my brain doing that. That's pure instinct, right? Pure instinct.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  It's almost like you have to consciously not do it.

• 44:31Jocko Willink?

  You have to consciously not do it. And then after you consciously not do it five times, the example, you gotta like drill it three more times just to make sure you're good to go.

• 44:40Jocko Willink?

  Here we go. Back to the book. It is by no means possible for me to write down this science precisely as I understand it in my heart.

• 44:51Jocko Willink?

  So, what that means to me is what I talk about a lot is that we look at different sources for the same information. We want to know about human nature. We want to know about leadership. We want to know about war. No one has the ability to just get it right. So that's why we come at it from different angles. That's what we do. Just like in jujitsu, when you learn an arm lock from Jeff Glover and you learn an arm lock from Dean Lister, they're gonna get, you know, Jeff Glover will give you 82 points of performance. Dean Lister will give you 82 points of performance. 73 of them are overlapping, but there's some

• 45:32Jocko Willink?

  nine that are a little bit different. And that's where you make up. And some of it's gonna work, you know, some of Glover's stuff's gonna work a little bit better for me than it is for you. But then some of Dean's stuff's gonna work better for you than me. But then some of those, we're actually gonna combine what both of them say. And we're gonna end up instead of 82 points of performance, we're gonna end up with 116. And now our arm locks a little bit better.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:58Jocko Willink?

  This is...

• 45:59Speaker 01

  It's deep though.

• 46:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So, here we go. Pay attention. The science of martial arts is not just a matter of reading these writings. Taking what is written here personally, do not think you are reading or learning and do not make up an imitation. Taking the principles as if they were discovered from your own mind. Identify with them constantly and work on them carefully. This is so critical.

• 46:31Jocko Willink?

  And it's like I say on the podcast, for a while at the end of the podcast, I was saying, don't just listen. Do. Because just listening doesn't help you. You have to go more than listen. He's saying you have to do more than just read. And it's interesting, you know, we get people that are really into either podcast that read the book and I talk to them, you know, we have clients that brought us on to help their company. And they love Extreme Ownership. And they are, they feel like they're fully on board and understand the principles and all that. And then you get in there and you start talking to them about what they're doing and they're missing them.

• 47:15Jocko Willink?

  And it's because they don't detach. They look, they're looking out at everyone else. They're not, they're not looking at themselves. And, and it's, it's hard because they read them. They listen.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  They know what to do.

• 47:29Jocko Willink?

  They know what to do, but they gotta do it. So that's hard. That's detachment comes, becomes important there too. To detach from yourself and actually think about what you're doing is very hard. And without doing just that, you won't be successful. And I like how he says you take these ideas and make them like as if they were discovered in your own brain. How do you apply them to your life? That's one of the things that's so good about the muster is because with the interaction, it's, it can be hard for people to birth these ideas from their own mind, like to take the seed that comes from Extreme Ownership or comes from the podcast to take that seed and, and, and plant it and have it grow. It can be hard to do that. They, they, they look at the seed. They hold the seed as sacred. Right?

• 48:12Jocko Willink?

  But they're not putting it in there and letting it grow and watering it. When you come to the muster, what's cool about it is you're, you, you get, you get to ask the question. And say, hey, what's going on with this? Explain this to me. And then we get to give our perspective and now we make a connection. Now that seed gets a little, little water on it, a little fertilizer and it starts to grow. And, and also would you get pulled out of your own head? Because when you hear three other people's questions that are similar to what you're doing and then, but again, you can't just listen to someone else's question and go, oh, I see the answer to that. You have to say, wait a second.

• 48:52Jocko Willink?

  How does that answer apply to me?

• 48:55Jocko Willink?

  It's a big deal.

• 48:58Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, "In the Science of Martial Arts, the State of..." Oh, man, this is...

• 49:04Jocko Willink?

  Here we go. "In the science of martial arts, the state of mind should remain the same as normal. In ordinary circumstances, as well as when practicing martial arts, let there be no change at all.

• 49:21Jocko Willink?

  With the mind open and direct, neither tense nor lax, centering the mind so that there is no imbalance. Calmly relax your mind and savor this moment of ease thoroughly, so that the relaxation does not stop its relaxation even for an instant." So you want to remain calm. So I used to... I'm gonna put myself on report here. So I used to play this game with my kids.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 49:49Jocko Willink?

  I would take the, the...

• 49:53Jocko Willink?

  Inside of wrapping paper, you get that sword. It's like a cardboard sword.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a tube.

• 49:58Jocko Willink?

  It's like a cardboard tube. It's like a giant toilet tissue tube, right?

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 50:02Jocko Willink?

  And I used to play this game with my kids. It was called "Normal Face." And I would line them up. And you had to keep your face totally normal, no expression, not a smile, not a laugh. If you weren't, didn't have a normal face, you would get cracked with the tube. And so all my kids would line up and they would just get the most blank expression on their face. And I would, you know, I'd do something to try and make them laugh, or try and make them, um... Startle, get scared. What's that, what's that word? When you flinch, I'd try and make them flinch, like I might swing at them and they flinch. And now, oh, you just don't, even if you flinch, like I was gonna crack you.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:35Jocko Willink?

  And now you flinch, now you get a crack. Cause you flinched. And it was, it was a lot of fun because the kids, because once you crack, you know, one kid, then the other two kids laugh, crack, crack. We'd line them up.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's good.

• 50:46Jocko Willink?

  But my goal in that, besides have fun with the family, you know, cause head trauma and all that can be very fun for the family. Just kidding, there's no head trauma happening. But it was fun to play and the kids would laugh, but also get them to control their emotions, right? And to get them to not be so readable to everyone. Get them to control their emotions, get them to relax. So you gotta play "Normal Face" with your kids sometimes.

• 51:10Jocko Willink?

  It's good.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Jocko's version.

• 51:13Jocko Willink?

  It's good.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Holiday.

• 51:14Jocko Willink?

  When you, when you see a kid in a frustrating situation and they've got normal face, you know you're impressed, right?

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's good.

• 51:21Jocko Willink?

  Even when you see an adult in that situation.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:23Jocko Willink?

  You see some pressure going on and they got the normal face? Just looking at them, like, okay. Oh, you're, you're screaming and yelling? Cool, normal face over here.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:31Jocko Willink?

  Who do you guys want to follow? Normal face guy or freak out guy over there? No.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  No, not freak out guy.

• 51:38Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, child services, you know, you can come and get me.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  But that's what those tube things are kinda for, in a way.

• 51:47Jocko Willink?

  Of course, they're made to crack your kids in the head with them and have fun.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Some kind of cracking device.

• 51:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, well, they're just so perfect.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:57Jocko Willink?

  No, you know what's more perfect than them? Is you can get the foam. You can get the foam that you use them to cover hot pipes in your house.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:06Jocko Willink?

  And it's just little foam tubes. Those things are the best. Because you, I could literally hit you as hard as I possibly could and it doesn't even hurt at all, but it makes a cool noise. I used to make swords with those things. I used to put a little PVC, PVC pipe at the end of it. But not the whole thing, cause that PVC, like, yeah, that's not, that, that, no, that's not, not kinda painful, that's, that's injuries.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:30Jocko Willink?

  But you just put enough of that so you have a handle, so just the hand. And then you have this little P, the, that foam and you could, my wife, the first time she saw us doing it, my wife freaked out. I'm in there, I'm wailing on my kids. Cause you're doing full barbarian, like overhead smashes with these swords as hard as you possibly can.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:50Jocko Willink?

  And it doesn't hurt at all.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:52Jocko Willink?

  At all. Those are good too, cause it does make a little crack noise.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. For the effect.

• 52:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Kinda flimsy though.

• 53:01Jocko Willink?

  No, that's the thing, they're surprisingly, they're not flimsy, they're surprisingly rigid. That's why they're so effective for the normal face game. That's as normal face advanced.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah.

• 53:12Jocko Willink?

  You know, cause you don't, you don't have that many wrapping paper tubes, so I'm like, okay, we need an alternate here. We need an alternative.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:17Jocko Willink?

  We need to keep this going.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, go to the basement.

• 53:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Get those pipe covers.

• 53:21Jocko Willink?

  Not with the Home Depot and bought them.

• 53:24Jocko Willink?

  I was doing a project at my house and then I had that left over and of course I'm looking at it tube. I'm thinking sword, I'm thinking normal face, let's get it on. And I've discovered a perfect, a perfect play weapon. There you go, boom.

• 53:41Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, once you have sharpened your intellect to the point where you can see whatever in the world is true or not.

• 53:49Jocko Willink?

  Where you can tell whatever is good or bad. And when you are experienced in various fields and are capable of being fooled. Are incapable of being fooled at all by people of the world. Then your mind will become imbued with the knowledge and wisdom of the art of war. Isn't that interesting? Can you hear about how you get infused with the knowledge of the art of war? It's by understanding people. That's how you get there.

• 54:18Jocko Willink?

  That's how you get there. Back to the book, there is something special about the knowledge of the art of war. It is imperative to master the principles of the art of war. And learn to be unmoved in mind, even in the heat of battle.

• 54:35Jocko Willink?

  Normal face.

• 54:39Jocko Willink?

  Generally speaking, it is essential to make your ordinary bearing. The bearing you use in martial arts and make the bearing you use in martial arts, your ordinary bearing. This should be given careful consideration. So you're normal, you should be normal all the time. That's how you should be. Whether you're fighting, whether you're in combat, or whether you're at dinner.

• 55:07Jocko Willink?

  Keep it ordinary, keep it normal.

• 55:12Jocko Willink?

  He's talking here about the focus of the eyes, a specialty of martial arts is to see that which is far away closely. And to see that which is nearby from a distance. You gotta have that perspective. That's why you don't get drawn into like when you're, when your platoon's got a mission. You don't get into planning with them. Cause then you, you'll be so close that you can't see what it looks like from far away.

• 55:38Jocko Willink?

  In martial arts, it is important to be aware of opponents swords and yet not look at the opponent's swords at all. This takes work. This matter of focusing the eyes is the same in both small and large scale military science. It is essential to see both sides without moving the eyeballs. So you gotta work that peripheral vision. Again, officer candidate school, you can't look at your food. We didn't know why they made us do that. We thought it was just torture. You can't look at your food while you're eating. You gotta look straight ahead. So why would they make you do that? So you improve your peripheral vision. You cannot look at your food. Try it sometime.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:21Jocko Willink?

  You have to develop your peripheral vision. And this idea of both large and small scale military science, being able to see that which is far away closely and that which is close from a distance. That's detachment. You're embroiled in that thing that's close to you, you gotta detach from it so you can see what it looks like. And the thing that's far away, you gotta get into it.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  You ever hear two people debating or something? Not professional debaters or nothing, but they're arguing a point, you know, one guy's point versus the other guy's point. And with debate, a lot of times comes interruption, you know, like you're saying, so I interrupt you, right? And then every once in a while, you'll notice one person say, hey, can I finish? You know, you keep interrupting me. And then another guy might say, well, I'm just saying you gotta, and slowly that debate of the two important issues gets pushed to the side, actually. And the debate becomes whether or not they justified or justifiably interrupted the other person. So it's now about the interruption. That's like, you know, you say, don't focus in on these little details that come about in a, in a big situation.

• 57:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Well, what's really crazy is they have news programs. I'll see like a clip of a news program and it's basically three or four panelists all talking at the same time.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:38Jocko Willink?

  It's the most ridiculous thing ever.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:40Jocko Willink?

  That's another thing. I think it was Joe Rogan was saying, you know, when we were talking about podcasts themselves.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:47Jocko Willink?

  He, he was saying. The news people need to learn from podcasts.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:52Jocko Willink?

  That you don't need to have people on for four minutes, three people, four people, five person panel. They're all talking at the same time. They're all looking to get that big zinger. You know, point across that they pre-planned and then they try and drop it. It's just garbage. It's just garbage. Listen to a, listen to a two and a half hour podcast about a subject so you can hear people's actual knowledgeable and thoughtful comments about it. That to me makes a lot more sense.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, even on those four minute deals where there's four or five people on there, even if they don't interrupt each other or talk over each other, like one person can talk for what? A minute?

• 58:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, it's weird. I've done, you know, I've done a decent amount of, of television interviews. And it's even when you're in it, it's, it's even shorter than it seems like when you're watching it. Cause you know, you have, you just have to say whatever it is you're gonna say, you just gotta say it in one, maybe two, maybe three sentences.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, and that's how they get you too. Like if there's, let's say if it's like a cited issue, you know? You say the one, and there's so many details and nuance to it, you know? But man, I gotta get my, my core point across. Meanwhile, there's all this nuance.

• 59:00Jocko Willink?

  And do you think that the news companies are doing that because people's attention spans have gotten so short? That they just think, well, that's the best way we can do this is just put the, hey, we put them on there for four minutes. If someone doesn't like this subject, they'll got someone else coming on and, you know, in four minutes later after the commercial break.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe. I think it a lot of times has to do with just the show is just a certain.

• 59:21Jocko Willink?

  But I think, I think that is what they're trying to do. I think they know attention spans are short, but I also think that attention spans have been so coddled now that people actually want the long format. That's why I think podcasts as in general are doing really well. Because people don't, people wanna get engaged and listen to an actual.

• 59:43Jocko Willink?

  Opinion.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:44Jocko Willink?

  Or, or not even an opinion, but facts or yeah, it's an opinion or facts. They want to listen to a full thought.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:51Jocko Willink?

  A full, a fully encompassed thought about something.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:56Jocko Willink?

  Not one liner zinger. Hey, I got you.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01Jocko Willink?

  Boring. Can't, I can't watch it anymore.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Sometimes when you're watching surfing, sure. You want to see a guy shred, you know, for a second or two or whatever. But sometimes you just want to sit back and watch the waves.

• 1:00:12Jocko Willink?

  That's true. I guess. Yeah.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  All day.

• 1:00:14Jocko Willink?

  Well, it is true that you, if you watch a surf movie, a real, the better surf movies, they have, you know, they show the guys in the morning. They're getting in the car. You're kind of with them, right?

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:26Jocko Willink?

  As opposed to just boom, it hits you, you know? Hit the lip, hit the lip, hit the lip, get barrel, get barrel, get barrel.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:00:31Jocko Willink?

  Like those are, those are cool, you know?

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:33Jocko Willink?

  But, but what do you, if you want to, I, and I think a lot of people, they want to sit down. They want to see these guys shaping boards.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:00:41Jocko Willink?

  You know, morning of the earth, they're shaping boards. They're, you're shaping boards and then they're going out and surfing the board that they shaped in the morning. They shape it glass and go out surfing, come back, adjust the fin, make a little, let's shave the fin down. That's, that's pretty cool to watch.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:00:57Jocko Willink?

  Is it cool to watch people do three sixties and five forties? Yeah, it's cool. But I want something a little bit more developed.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Yep. That's actually the key right there. Something developed.

• 1:01:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  You know, you can't, just like you can't watch a shape, someone doing the same shape for a long time. You want to see the full developed thought. Like how you put it.

• 1:01:16Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  You watch North Shore. Ever watch that show? Yeah, you watch that show.

• 1:01:20Jocko Willink?

  Was that a TV show?

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:01:22Jocko Willink?

  It was a movie.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Okay. It was a movie, then there was a TV show.

• 1:01:25Jocko Willink?

  This is about the, the.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  The Arizona surfing.

• 1:01:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. He was a surf, a surf tank or whatever and.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Arizona winds, Rick Kane goes to North Shore, Oahu, Hawaii.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  You know, learns to surf all over again, technically, you know, big waves, the culture, all this stuff, you know, not as accurate as maybe it could have been, but a fun watch nonetheless.

• 1:01:48Jocko Willink?

  We'll have to queue that one up. I think my son watches that when they get all the funny lines out of it.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. Turtle. Dope.

• 1:01:56Jocko Willink?

  I'll take your word for it on that one.

• 1:01:59Jocko Willink?

  Alright, back to the book. In wielding the long sword, oh, this is good. "In wielding the long sword, the thumb and forefinger grip lightly. The middle finger grips neither tightly nor loosely, while the fourth and little fingers grip tightly. There should be no slackness in the hand. The long sword should be taken up with the thought that it is something for killing opponents. Let there be no change in your grip even when slashing opponents. Make your grip such that your hand does not flinch. When you strike an opponent's sword, block it or pin it down, your thumb and forefinger alone should change somewhat,

• 1:02:42Jocko Willink?

  but in any case, you should grip your sword with the thought of killing. Your grip when cutting something to test your blade and your grip when slashing in combat should be no different." Gripping the sword as you would to kill a man. Generally speaking, fixation and binding are to be avoided in both the sword and the hand. Fixation is the way to death. Fluidity is the way to life. This is something that should be well understood.

• 1:03:24Jocko Willink?

  So, not only you have normal face and normal bearing, your grip's gotta remain the same, no matter what. You train how you fight, you just maintain the same grip. And then this idea of fixing and binding and being stationary and stagnant is the way to death. And being fluid and open in the mind and in the way you present and the way you fight, that's the way to life.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  You know how like, Tim Kennedy mentioned dry fire? You know, it's kinda the same deal, right? So it's like you're pulling the trigger the same way or whether or not there's gonna be, you know, recoil or not.

• 1:03:59Jocko Willink?

  The same way. And actually, when you're shooting, they'll do this when they're training us to shoot.

• 1:04:06Jocko Willink?

  Will, they'll put a dummy round in our magazine. That's not, and so then they can see if you made some reaction predicting or awaiting the kick of the gun. And that's what throws your rounds off. So they'll put a dummy round in there and they'll be watching you click, click, click, click, or boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then click, you jerk your trigger. And everyone knows that you just made a mistake and they can see it.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Man, that's hard.

• 1:04:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it is. It is.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Get good at that.

• 1:04:29Jocko Willink?

  But you get good at that one.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  Dope.

• 1:04:33Jocko Willink?

  Now, this is interesting. He goes through what he calls the five kinds of guard, and I looked at this guard is, is basically the way you kind of position yourself. And he talks about the different types of guard that there are, the first technique, the, the second, the third, the fourth, the fifth, these are the different techniques, and they're all different positions that you hold the sword and where you prepare for your attack. And when he gets to the philosophical part of it, though.

• 1:05:03Jocko Willink?

  On the teaching of having a position without a position. Having a position without a position, or a guard without a guard, means that the long sword is not supposed to be kept in a fixed position. Nevertheless, since there are five ways of placing the sword, the guard positions must follow along. Where you hold your sword depends on your relationship to the opponent, depends on the place, and must conform to the situation. Wherever you hold it, the idea is to hold it so that it will be easy to kill the opponent.

• 1:05:36Jocko Willink?

  Sometimes the upper guard position is lowered a bit, so that it may, becomes the middle position. While the middle guard position may be elevated a bit, depending on the advantage thereof, so that it becomes the upper position. At times, the lower guard position is also raised a bit to become the middle position. The two, the two-sided guard positions may be moved somewhat toward the center, depending on where you are standing vis a vis your opponent. Resulting in either the middle or the lower guard position.

• 1:06:07Jocko Willink?

  In this way, the principle is to have a guard position without a position.

• 1:06:13Jocko Willink?

  First of all, when you take up the sword, in any case, the idea is to kill the opponent. Even though you may catch, hit, or block an opponent slashing sword, or tie it up, or obstruct it, all of these moves are opportunities for cutting down the opponent. So he's not trapped in this rigid mindset that this is what I have to do. He's open-minded, he's flexible. Now here we go. This must be understood. If you think of catching, think of hitting, think of blocking, think of tying up, or think of obstructing, you will thereby become unable to make the kill.

• 1:06:57Jocko Willink?

  It is crucial to think of everything as an opportunity to kill.

• 1:07:04Jocko Willink?

  This should be given careful consideration. So he's saying if you're, if you're thinking defensively, that's what you're thinking about. When you actually need to be thinking about being offensive, even when you're defending, you need to be thinking about being offensive.

• 1:07:19Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, in large-scale military science, the array of troops, the arraying of troops is also a matter of positioning. Every instance thereof is an opportunity to win in war. Fixation is bad. This should be worked out thoroughly. Striking down an opponent in a single beat, among the rhythms used to strike an opponent, there is what is called a single beat. Finding a position where you can reach the opponent, realizing when the opponent has not yet determined what to do. You strike directly as fast as possible without moving your body or fixing your attention. The stroke with which you strike an opponent before he has thought of whether to pull back, parry, or strike is called a single beat.

• 1:08:04Jocko Willink?

  So that's, you, you can see that the opponent's not quite prepared, they're kind of indecisive, you can see it. Boom. Be decisive, make something happen, go for the kill.

• 1:08:16Jocko Willink?

  The rhythm of the second spring. The rhythm of the second spring is when you're about to strike and the opponent quickly pulls back or parries. You feint a blow and then strike the opponent as he relaxes after tensing. This is the stroke of the second spring. So again, we see these all the time in jiu-jitsu. We see it in everything. The sticky body means getting inside and sticking fast to an opponent. When you get inside the opponent's defenses, you stick tight with your head, body, and legs. The average person gets his head and legs in quickly, but the body shrinks back. Sticking to an opponent means that you stick so close that there are no gaps between your bodies.

• 1:09:01Jocko Willink?

  This should be investigated carefully. And what's really interesting about this, and of course, these are both two different languages being translated, but when the Chechens fought the Russians in Chechnya, one of the things that the Chechens did was they called it this sticky, they stuck to the Russians. So the Russians had air support, the Russians had artillery, and the only way to negate that or mitigate it for the Chechens was to get so close to the Russians that they couldn't use their own superior air power. And it's the same thing with jiu-jitsu. I mean, obviously, a grappler is gonna get close so that they can avoid the strikes of a striker.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:45Jocko Willink?

  Doesn't matter. A stand against many opponents. Discerning the order in which opponents attack, deal with those who press forward first. Keeping an eye on the whole picture, determining the stands from which opponents launch their attack, swinging both swords at the same time without mutual interference. It is wrong to wait. Prioritize and execute. You got multiple people coming after you, or you're being attacked on multiple fronts, you need to prioritize and execute. Advantage in dueling means understanding how to win using the long sword according to the laws of martial arts. This cannot be written down in detail.

• 1:10:29Jocko Willink?

  One must realize how to win by practice. Study carefully. So again, you're not gonna get it just by reading. You're not gonna get it just by listening. You gotta do it. You gotta practice it.

• 1:10:45Jocko Willink?

  Thinking unhurriedly, understanding that it is the duty of warriors to practice this science, determine that today you will overcome yourself of the day before. Tomorrow, you will win over those of lesser skill and later, you will win over those of greater skill. Practice. This is something that requires thorough examination. With a thousand days of practice for training and 10,000 days of practice for refinement. Get it on.

• 1:11:27Jocko Willink?

  As far as my military science is concerned, I have discerned the principles of living and dying through numerous duels in which I set my life on the line, learning the science of the sword. Getting to know the strength and weaknesses of opponent's sword blows, comprehending the uses of blade and ridge of the sword, and practicing how to kill opponents. In the course of doing this, little sissy things never even occurred to me. Especially when one is in full combat gear, one does not think of small things. I thought that might be worth noting.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:01Jocko Willink?

  Don't be thinking about the little sissy things. Now he's talking about here the physical situation, meaning what's going on. In discerning the lay of the physical situation, there is what is known as positioning yourself with the sun at your back. This also applies indoors. So, general ideas, you want to make sure that you put the sun behind you so that it's hard to see you. Now, what you have to be careful is, today, live, real military scenarios, you gotta be careful that you're not silhouetting yourself. So, at nighttime, you get on a ridge line or you get light behind you, it can be easier to see you, unless it's a bright blinding light, and then it becomes efficient. So, there's a big difference between a bright blinding light and silhouetting yourself, so be careful of that.

• 1:12:44Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, in order to look down on the enemy, understand that you should take your stand on the highest ground, even if it's only slightly elevated. Take the high ground, or the high ground's gonna take you. 1643, same, same thing that I was teaching in 2009. Take the high ground.

• 1:13:07Jocko Willink?

  When you get opponents to an obstacle, in order to prevent them from observing the situation, press your attack without let up, so they cannot look around. Again, you get someone on the ropes, gotta attack.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:21Jocko Willink?

  Gotta get them. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:13:24Jocko Willink?

  When they're on the ropes, when they're starting to fade a little bit, you're probably starting to fade a little bit too.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:29Jocko Willink?

  Think about it.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:30Jocko Willink?

  If you and I are in a grappling match and we're going hard, when I see you getting tired, I'm probably getting tired too. Not time for me to rest, just go. A lot of people, they see you getting a little bit tired, I say, "Oh, cool, I can take a little breather now."

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it requires less of my effort now.

• 1:13:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, wrong answer.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:47Jocko Willink?

  Requires more effort.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:48Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna finish you off, I'm gonna get the kill.

• 1:13:54Jocko Willink?

  When you want to attack, you remain calm and quiet. Then get the jump on your opponent by attacking suddenly and quickly. You can preempt by being outwardly powerful and swift while inwardly leaving reserves. You can also get the jump by stealing your mind to the utmost, accelerating your pace a bit, and making a violent attack the instant you get up close to the opponent.

• 1:14:19Jocko Willink?

  In case the opponent attacks swiftly, you attack calmly yet powerfully. When the opponent gets close, tighten your bearing with absolute resolve, and when the opponent shows signs of slacking, overcome him with force immediately. Then again, when an opponent attacks calmly and quietly, accelerate your own attack slightly, with your body lightly buoyant. When the opponent gets close, clash once, and then adapting to his condition, overcome him forcefully. So this is what these are. And what's important about these is that understanding what's happening before you enter the situation.

• 1:15:01Jocko Willink?

  So let me give you an example, you hear this all the time in MMA. There's certain MMA fighters that come out of the gate blazing. And you hear all the time, oh, this guy, he knows he's gotta weather the storm.

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:15Jocko Willink?

  So that's exactly what, oh, you're gonna attack me, I'm gonna remain calm. You're going, going all out, going crazy, getting nuts even.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:22Jocko Willink?

  And what am I doing? I'm just gonna remain calm, just gonna take the hits, I'm gonna defend, I'm gonna let you, and I'm gonna do it with resolve, just gonna be calm, normal face, boom, we're good. And then you're gonna wear yourself out and then I'm gonna attack.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:15:36Jocko Willink?

  As opposed to, if you come out, you're all nonchalant, I might, I might come at you hard to overcome you while you're not mentally prepared for the chaos I'm gonna bring to you.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, in hopes that you can't weather the storm.

• 1:15:49Jocko Willink?

  Right, right.

• 1:15:53Jocko Willink?

  Whenever opponents try and attack you, let them go ahead and do anything that is useless while preventing them from doing anything that is useful. This is essential to military science. That doesn't even need explanation.

• 1:16:06Jocko Willink?

  Except for the fact that you see people all the time that the enemies or the competitors doing something that they don't like, it bothers them, so they make effort to stop it.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:16Jocko Willink?

  And they're just wasting their effort.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:17Jocko Willink?

  You should actually be encouraging people to waste their resources and time.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Jocko Willink?

  Knowing the state of affairs in large-scale military science, knowing the state of affairs means discerning the flourishing and declining of opponents, discerning the intentions of adversary troops and perceiving their condition, clearly seeing the state of affairs, determining how to deploy your own troops so as to gain certain victory by the principles of military science, and doing battle with the knowledge of what lies ahead.

• 1:16:48Jocko Willink?

  Also, in individual martial arts, you determine your opponent's traditions, observe the personal character of adversaries, find out people's strengths and weaknesses, maneuver in ways contrary to opponents' expectations, determine opponents' highs and lows, ascertain rhythms in between, make the first move, this is essential.

• 1:17:11Jocko Willink?

  So that's leadership right there, dealing with other people, know their character. Back to the book, if your own power of insight is strong, the state of affairs of everything will be visible to you. Once you have attained complete independent mastery of martial arts, you'll be able to figure out the minds of opponents and thus find many ways to win. This demands work.

• 1:17:40Jocko Willink?

  Know what's happening, you know, I like the fact that he's talking about understanding your opponent's traditions, understanding their cultures, what he's talking about. You've got to understand what your opponent's culture is. At an individual level and on a social level, all of it.

• 1:17:59Jocko Willink?

  Disintegration is something that happens to everything. When a house crumbles, a person crumbles, or an adversary crumbles, they fall apart by getting out of rhythm with the times.

• 1:18:14Jocko Willink?

  In large-scale military science, it is also essential to find the rhythm of opponents as they come apart and pursue them so as to not let openings slip by. If you miss the timing of vulnerable moments, there is a likelihood of counterattack. In individual martial arts, it also happens that an adversary will get out of rhythm in combat and start to fall apart. If you let such a chance get by you, the adversary will recover and thwart you. It is essential to follow up firmly on any loss of poise on the part of an opponent to prevent him from recovering. Again, you see this in MMA all the time. Get that guy on the ropes, get that guy dazed. You gotta get on him, finish him.

• 1:18:57Jocko Willink?

  And you, and that's how tired people get in MMA. You'll see somebody really, really rocked and losing their bearings and the other guy won't even be able to pursue him because he's tired or overly cautious. And then you know what else you get? You get the guy that goes nuts and gases himself out, trying to finish a guy so hard and the guy just hangs on, ties him up, whatever. And then, then all of a sudden the tables turn.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that typically what that is when they punch themselves out, is what they call it. When they get too excited, like they don't maintain the normal face, you know?

• 1:19:34Jocko Willink?

  They don't maintain normal face, got issues there.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  And there's, and apparently, you know, I'm listening to this and there is a difference between normal face and then being aggressive, you know, in attacks, you know, like being offensive or whatever. So, and that's a good-

• 1:19:46Jocko Willink?

  Well, you can have normal face while you're being aggressive.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I mean.

• 1:19:49Jocko Willink?

  Being aggressive doesn't mean you're getting all, you're losing your composure. You're aggressively attacking while maintaining composure.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:56Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so a lot of times in MMA where you see a guy, you know, boom, he got the other guy on the ropes and he maintains, you can, you know, a guy getting too excited, you know, he risks punching himself out if he doesn't connect or if he, you know, if the guy just does a good job.

• 1:20:12Jocko Willink?

  Or he can even get, occasionally the guy gets just super sloppy and gets caught.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Exactly right, because the guy's out of desperation or, you know, you ever seen that one, it was, I think the guy's name is Scott? Who was it? Tim Lidle, maybe? What's his name? Anyway, I forget. So he gets hit in the liver, I think, and it buckles up. And he's, you can tell all the fight's over for this guy. And the other guy comes running in haymaker style, you know, like sloppy but super aggressive and he sneaks one in as the guy's getting, knocks him out. And it looked like the fight was over for that guy.

• 1:20:49Jocko Willink?

  He lost his composure.

• 1:20:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:50Jocko Willink?

  He didn't maintain normal face.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  Nope, not at all. He was way too excited and he got sloppy.

• 1:20:54Jocko Willink?

  He got excited face.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:57Jocko Willink?

  Exactly.

• 1:20:59Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, becoming the opponent means you should put yourself in an opponent's place and think from the opponent's point of view. Clearly.

• 1:21:09Jocko Willink?

  Letting go four hands is when you and an opponent are in a deadlock and no progress is being made in the fight. It means that when you think you're going to get into a deadlock, you stop right away and seize victory by taking advantage of a different approach. In large-scale military science as well, if there's total deadlock and no progress is being made, there will be a loss of personnel. It is essential to stop right away and seize victory by taking advantage of a tactic unsuspected by the enemy.

• 1:21:40Jocko Willink?

  In individual martial arts also, if you think you're getting into a deadlock, then it is essential to immediately change your approach, ascertain the opponent's state and determine how to win by means of a very different tactic. This is, is something you see a lot and you see that in everything, in everything. You see it in war, you see it in jiu-jitsu, you see it in fighting, you see it in business. People, they get to a position and there's some comfort, there's some level of comfort. If you and I lock up and you're my half-guard and you're not really going anywhere and I'm, and I, and, and I'm not going anywhere, you're not going anywhere, there's a level of comfort there.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:15Jocko Willink?

  Like, why should I take risk doing something else? And so we, we don't mind being deadlocked. Now, what's important about this is- He's saying as soon as you sense it, that's gotta be the hard part. As soon as you sense there's a deadlock, that's when you should make the change because the longer I wait, the longer, the more settled it becomes and the harder it is to break out of that deadlock.

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:36Jocko Willink?

  Movement is so critical. Mental, physical movement is so critical. That's why when something go is going bad, like let's say you're in a public place and something's going bad, a terrorist comes in and starts screaming, shooting. You move immediately. You got, your instinct has gotta be to move immediately. What you don't wanna do is freeze, stop, hold, which is a very human instinct. Right? It's a very human instinct to freeze and, and just take cover. Now, there's shooting going on, depending on the kind of shooting. If there's heavy machine gun fire, ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba like that, yes, you have to, you have to get down because there's bullets flying all over the place. If the bullets are slowly going, bop, bop, bop. That means someone's taking aim and shooting. So if you stay still, you're gonna get shot.

• 1:23:22Jocko Willink?

  If you hear that steady pace, you go. You go, you zigzag, you take cover, you then you bound to another position. You move as fast as you can.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:30Jocko Willink?

  That quick movement, when you, before the deadlock settles in, is when you wanna do it. When someone's about to, in, in, in a,

• 1:23:40Jocko Willink?

  in a situation like a physical confrontation, don't let it get there. Make a move before it gets there.

• 1:23:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:47Jocko Willink?

  Which, you know, hopefully means you leave, you walk away. You know, before the guy bows up to you and starts getting in your face, you're already gone. Didn't even let it get there. Cause now we're going to a situation where it's, we're gonna have to make something happen.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:00Jocko Willink?

  And that's not good. Right? It's not gonna be good. Sure. Oh, yeah, I kicked his, I kicked this guy's ass out in the street. That's cool. And what's the other 14 alternatives? You got stabbed, you got arrested, you got, you broke his neck, you're in prison. There's all kinds of bad ones. There's like one good out of 14, which is, hey, I put the guy to sleep. And even that one, what are you getting out of that? He bled on you.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:22Jocko Willink?

  And we don't know what kinda disease this guy has.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:24Jocko Willink?

  You know, we've, we've talked about that before, but the bottom line is, try and be aware of when things are about to get stagnant. If you can change them then, do it then.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a Ultimately, it comes down to being ready. Yeah.

• 1:24:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  And not even necessarily ready for anything specific. It just, you know, when you get caught off guard, it's like, oh, you gotta, your mind has to explore all these options. It takes all this time, you know?

• 1:24:48Jocko Willink?

  If you would have, if you would have just been aware.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:52Jocko Willink?

  Awareness goes so far. Like I did that video on, on real martial arts. And, and you know, I started off by saying, hey, the best form of self-defense is the gun. You know, if you, if you, because think about it. If you have somebody that truly is in a high-threat area, you know, you take a, a, a woman or an older person that doesn't have great physical strength and they're in a high-threat area. To tell them that, you know, learning jujitsu is gonna be the best thing for them. Is wrong.

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:24Jocko Willink?

  The best thing for them is to, in a high-threat area, is to have a weapon, a, a gun. That is the best thing to have. That truly will neutralize targets.

• 1:25:36Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 1:25:39Jocko Willink?

  But that, but what I didn't mention in that video, which I should have, is, yes, the first thing is mental awareness. The first thing is like, oh yeah, I'm, I'm aware of what's happening. I'm aware that I'm going into a high-threat area. I'm gonna go to another area. I'm gonna drive around that area. That's the, oh, I see bad things going on on my side of the street. I'm gonna walk across the street and avoid it.

• 1:25:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:57Jocko Willink?

  Early enough that I don't look like a victim. Cause if you see, if, if a perpetrator sees you, or a predator sees that you're avoiding them. Then they think, oh, that's the person scared. There's a target for me.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's weak.

• 1:26:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they're weak. But that's why you gotta be aware. So yes, you're a hundred percent right. And when you walk into a building, you walk into a public place, you should be looking around. Where are the exits? Where is their cover? How fast can I get out of here?

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:21Jocko Willink?

  That's what you should be doing. And, and if you have that predetermined, that it's not even like it takes that much effort. You just have to do it.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:30Jocko Willink?

  You have to say, oh, I'm going into a high school graduation. And I'm gonna sit in a spot where I'm close to the exit in case somebody goes crazy. Cause when is someone gonna go crazy? We don't know. But they do. And so if you're close to the exit, you can get out of there quickly. Or you can at least flank the perpetrator. And get rounds on them before anything really bad happens.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you just compare that to the alternative of not knowing.

• 1:26:56Jocko Willink?

  Right, or you know, you go in, you go, oh, this is a good seat. I'm able to see the graduation from this middle spot that has no covering concealment anywhere around it. And when something goes sideways, I'm gonna be one of the persons trapped in the mob trying to get out of this two doors. While someone's shooting a machine gun. Not good. So be aware of your surroundings is number one. And then when you see that thing happening, act quickly. You know, you see something shady going on, move towards that exit. Movement is so key and being mentally prepared to make the movement. Having that be a quick reaction instead of a delayed reaction and planning your situations that you're in a spot where you can move quickly is critical.

• 1:27:40Jocko Willink?

  In large scale military science, when you cannot discern the enemy's state. You pretend to make a powerful attack and see what they do. That's pretty cool. Right? If I don't know what the person's not doing anything, I can't tell what they're gonna do. Make a little attack on them. See how they react to it. And in jujitsu, by the way. It's gotta be a real attack. You can't fake an attack in jujitsu unless the person's weak. You have, I mean, like not trained.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, nervous or something, yeah.

• 1:28:08Jocko Willink?

  You, you need to give them a real attack. If I say, oh, I'm gonna pretend to sweep Echo so I can expose his arm. If I pretend to sweep you, you won't even defend it. You don't have to. It's pretend. You don't have to defend against pretend things. I've actually gotta try and sweep you. That will expose your arm because you have to defend the sweep. So your attacks, I don't, I don't like to use the word pretend there. Because if you're pretending, well, even if, even on the battlefield, I'm not gonna pretend to flank you. I'm gonna flank you. I'm gonna flank you. And if you don't defend it, I'm gonna win. If you defend it, cool. Now I can hit you from the other side.

• 1:28:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's kinda like on the movies and the war movies, right? They, they. What was it? I don't know, but you know how they have the, the girl, you know, walks, that's, that's the, the decoy. So obvious, the girl's not gonna be in a war zone.

• 1:28:56Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  Right, you gotta, you gotta know that.

• 1:28:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, watch out for that really good looking girl.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  In the battlefield, yeah.

• 1:29:05Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, if you demonstrate strongly to opponents, oh, this is good. If you demonstrate strongly to opponents how you control the advantage, they will change their minds inhibited by this strength. So, if I'm dominating you on the jujitsu mat, and I'm just holding you across side, holding you across side, holding you across side, I've given away what I do to control you. So now, next time, you're not gonna let me get across side, you're gonna panic. So, or you're gonna, not gonna panic, but you're gonna really defend that position harder, and you're gonna sacrifice a cross side, maybe you give up your back. Cause you realize, hey, my back attacks aren't as good. And then, now, I'm not getting where I wanna be.

• 1:29:44Jocko Willink?

  So, if you demonstrate, so you gotta be careful, you can't be so dominant in what you're doing, that everyone sees it. Or that your opponent sees it, or that your competitor sees what you're doing, and then they can counter it. If you, if you keep it somewhat obscured by, by, you know, uh, smoke and mirrors, so that they can't tell exactly how you're dominating, that's a positive thing.

• 1:30:09Speaker 01

  That's one of the drawbacks of having the same training partner. You know, cause you, like, I train with Greg so much, that we just sit in this weird, stalemate position so much of the time.

• 1:30:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  And it's almost like, it's, and it's subconscious at this point, where you're not worried about certain things now.

• 1:30:27Jocko Willink?

  Well, this goes back, what you need to do with him there, is you need to avoid that position before you get to it.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:32Jocko Willink?

  Right as you get to it, you need to go, no, we're not going there.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:37Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, there is infection in everything. Even sleepiness can be infectious and yawning can be infectious. There is even infection of a time. In large scale military science, when adversaries are excited and evidently are in a hurry to act, you behave as though you are completely unfazed, giving the appearance of being thoroughly relaxed and at ease. Do this and the adversaries themselves are influenced by this mood, becoming less enthusiastic. When you think your opponents have caught that mood, you empty your own mind and act quickly and firmly, thus gaining the winning advantage. In martial arts as well, it is essential to be relaxed in body and mind, notice the

• 1:31:19Jocko Willink?

  moment an opponent slackens and quickly take the initiative to win. Now, the reason I wanted to point that one out is for, especially for, you know, people in, police officers, bouncers, that's the de-escalation, right? Someone's getting all excited, if you get excited back at them, you're just escalating the situation. Act calm, calm them down, don't let them, they want you to get riled up. Like that drunk guy, that they, that, that domestic violence situations, they want you, they want to fight, they want to lash out. You give it to them, they're gonna take it. In a large, in large scale military science, it is essential to cause upset.

• 1:32:02Jocko Willink?

  It is critical to attack resolutely where enemies are not expecting it, then while their minds are unsettled, use this to your advantage to take the initiative and win. There is fright in everything. This means being frightened by the unexpected. In individual martial arts, you can threaten by means of your body, you can threaten by means of your sword, you can threaten by means of your voice. What is essential is to suddenly make a move totally unexpected by the opponent, pick up on the advantage of the fright and seize victory right then and there. This must be worked out thoroughly. This is, whenever I catch Dean, whenever I catch Dean.

• 1:32:46Jocko Willink?

  I catch him only by surprise. Like I ca- if he knows what I'm doing, he stops it. The only times I catch him is by surprise. And, and you know, he'll say, oh, man, I did not expect an arm lock there. For a while ago, you know, I was Kamira, Kamira, Kamira, Kamira, Kamira. And he gets so good at defending Kamira, I wasn't hitting it. And then one day, boom, threw an arm lock at. I did that to you a couple of weeks ago. No, right? You were, you said the exact same thing.

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:11Jocko Willink?

  You know, that dude was defending the heck out of that Kamira and then boom. Yeah, straight arm lock.

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:17Jocko Willink?

  That, and what got you is just surprise. Surprise, because your defense is solid on what you see. It's those things that you don't see.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:25Jocko Willink?

  That which you cannot defend.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  And that, yeah, I mean, that especially when you get advanced, that is the whole of jujitsu right there.

• 1:33:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Setting up that surprise.

• 1:33:35Jocko Willink?

  Although.

• 1:33:37Jocko Willink?

  Like, there's times where Dean, I know exactly what he's gonna do. And he's doing it with such methodical perfection that I cannot stop it.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:48Jocko Willink?

  And that is so bothersome.

• 1:33:51Speaker 01

  Well, but, but even that kinda, and this is totally splitting hairs. But even that, in a way, he might have little micro surprises, you know, to establish the position.

• 1:34:00Jocko Willink?

  Getting, yes, getting to the position, he definitely does that.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:04Jocko Willink?

  But once he's in a position and I know, exa- matter of fact, he'll be telling me.

• 1:34:11Jocko Willink?

  He'll be telling me, oh, you know what's coming, Jocko? I wish you could stop this. It's actually sad that you can't, he'll be talking so much smack to me, which obviously is even more frustrating. But that's because he's better than me at jujitsu, right? He's, he's just got the skills.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:28Jocko Willink?

  And he knows, he does know, he knows how to do those movements with such authority and precision that you're just, you're just in trouble.

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:40Jocko Willink?

  You know, he does this one, he calls it like the arresting officer. And he'll start talking to me like he's a, like he's a cop. And he'll be going, he'll be saying, sir, just calm down, just calm down, sir. And he's got me face down, like I'm getting arrested. And he does that weird Kamira where he, and he's, you know, he just, he says, he'll say, look at the wall over there. And, and I'm trying not to look where he's, and he even like force my face.

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:05Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's humiliating.

• 1:35:09Jocko Willink?

  That's why when either one of us, and we're at a point in the jujitsu now where if either one of us get in our dominant position, the other person, we, we are going to make them suffer immensely. And he's got more dominant, you know, if I get a cross side on him, he's in trouble. And if I get him on all fours, he's in trouble. He's, I'm going to make him suffer in both those positions straight up. I might not submit him, but he's going to suffer. And he's got those two positions, the same thing. Like if he's across side of me, or he's, or if I'm all fours, he'll make me suffer. But also, he has the mount. If he mounts me, I suffer brutally, because then I'm looking at him, which is even more

• 1:35:50Jocko Willink?

  horrible. You know that he will literally drip sweat into my eyes purposefully? Yeah, yeah. You know, if he's in the mount, he'll sit there and aim sweat drop coming off his nose and hit me in the eye. Yeah, that's advanced. And tell me, you know, Chinese water torture. Like as soon as he'll mount me, he's like Chinese water. If he's sweating, if we're already warm, Chinese water torture. And I'm saying, Dean, I'm going to kill, I'll, I'll be saying, I would say, Dean, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you. Enjoy this. And then when I get him.

• 1:36:26Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's what makes the jujitsu so fun. The game within the game. Yeah. It's crazy. Back to the book, flustering opponents means acting in such a way as to prevent them from having a steady mind. In large scale, in large scale military science, this means that you assess adversaries' minds on the battlefield and use the power of your knowledge of the art of war to manipulate their attention, making them think confusing thoughts about what you're going to do. It means finding a rhythm that will fluster adversaries, accurately discerning where you can win. In individual martial arts as well, you try various maneuvers according to the opportunity of the moment, making the opponent think you are now going

• 1:37:07Jocko Willink?

  to do this, now that, now something else, until you find the opponent starting to get flustered. And thus.

• 1:37:15Jocko Willink?

  You win at will. This is the essence of battle. It should be studied carefully. So clearly make flustering your opponent on the battlefield, in business, wherever you are, in conversations, you're trying to get someone, fluster them. Fluster them, obviously in jujitsu. When you start getting flustered, you're doomed. Yeah.

• 1:37:40Jocko Willink?

  In the context of large scale combat, mixing means that when two groups are facing off and your opponents are strong, you attack one of the opponent's flanks. As if to mix with them, then when you see the opponents crumble, you leave off and attack again where they are strong. Flanking. Always. Mountain and sea means that it is bad to do the same thing over and over again. You may have to repeat something once, but it should not be done a third time. When you try something on an opponent, if it does not work the first time, you will not get any benefit out of rushing to do it again. Change your tactics abruptly. Doing something completely different. If that still does not work, then try something else.

• 1:38:23Jocko Willink?

  Thus, the science of martial arts involves the presence of mind to act and see where the enemy is like a mountain and act as a mountain when the enemy is like a sea.

• 1:38:35Jocko Willink?

  This requires careful reflection. So what's interesting about this is you actually, there is a benefit if you in jujitsu. And on the battlefield, if you try something and you see the reaction. Now you know the reaction. And you try it again, if you automatically counter the reaction, that's a great setup. Dean will do three, three times, he'll do something three times, he'll go once fake, once fake. If he doesn't do it the third time, he won't do it. Which is a great rule to have because now that person has thought, oh, they're setting this up. But yeah, so sometimes it's good to try something, you see the defenses,

• 1:39:16Jocko Willink?

  and now you can attack with those defenses understood, which is beneficial.

• 1:39:21Speaker 01

  Especially with jiu-jitsu, well, jiu-jitsu, it's so complex. You can go for a guillotine, but the way you went for the guillotine can change a lot too, you know, like, um, like, I won't try it from this very exact position, you know, two, three times. I'll go one, didn't work. Maybe I'll try it again. Oh, obviously didn't work. He's good at defending from there. Maybe you'll do something else, something else, something else, and then come back to it. You know those guys who are...

• 1:39:43Jocko Willink?

  You got it, you got it. That's a great point. If I try a guillotine on you, and then I try it again, you already know it's like, if I try one on you, it's tight, close, but you get out, you're defending it like crazy now. You're not even gonna let me get it again.

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:57Jocko Willink?

  I gotta attack fourteen other, I gotta attack multiple other things, probably like, probably around five or six other things before I come back to the guillotine, and I'm gonna get it deep next time.

• 1:40:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:40:08Jocko Willink?

  Cause I know you got good defense, right? I'm gonna go a little extra.

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you're gonna set it up different typically. You know, you know those guys who are really good at triangles? And they'll just fly them out of anywhere.

• 1:40:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  So all that is, is it's the same thing where they'll go for a triangle, and sure, and you can even be like, yeah, I know this guy's good at triangles. So I'm gonna defend the triangle. So you know how to defend the triangle, but you're not as good, so you're used to defending the triangle from the guard. And that's it. Meanwhile, this guy's doing some half-guard thing to sweep you here when you base to sweep. He's going for that triangle, you know? So he knows it from everywhere, so it's the same eventuality, but the way he approaches is different, so it's like attacking this mountain. We're not gonna go up this straight in the front of the mountain. We're gonna try the front, okay, defended. We're gonna try it from the side, okay, defended. We're gonna try it from the side here, then go to the front, then go to the other side, and then get it.

• 1:40:55Jocko Willink?

  Airborne.

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I meant, that's what I meant.

• 1:41:01Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, when fighting with enemies, if you get to feeling snarled up, and are making no progress, you toss your mood away, and think in your heart that you are starting everything anew. As you get the rhythm, you discern how to win. This is becoming a new. Anytime you feel tension and friction building up between yourself and others, if you change your mind that very moment, you can prevail by the advantage of radical difference. This is becoming new. So, sometimes you just gotta put your attitude in check. Right? The reason that I thought about that, I thought about that in terms of, from a leadership perspective, dealing with people. The minute, you know, you and I are in a meeting, and all of a sudden I start feeling that friction,

• 1:41:45Jocko Willink?

  I should need to recognize, I'm doing something wrong. I'm creating friction. I'm not making progress. Need to start anew. Need to take a different approach. You need to realize that early when you're dealing with other human beings. The more I continue down the bad approach that wasn't working, the harder it is to back out of. So when you start sensing that bad approach, go a different direction.

• 1:42:07Jocko Willink?

  When you are fighting advertaries and get to feeling startled up in petty maneuvers, remember this rule of military science. While in the midst of the minutia, suddenly you shift to a large perspective.

• 1:42:20Jocko Willink?

  Changing to great or small is an intentional part of the science of the art of war. It is essential for warriors to seek this even in the ordinary consciousness of human life. This mentality is critical to military science, whether large or small scale.

• 1:42:39Jocko Willink?

  This concern should be given careful consideration. So, this is detachment. You have to detach. You can't get caught in the minutia. And you also can't get caught in the large scale. You have to be able to see both of them. And when you feel like you've spent too much time in one, time to back out and see the other one. When you start, and when you start feeling bogged down, step back. Step back. Take the large perspective.

• 1:43:03Speaker 01

  Let me ask you this. Like, you're obviously well-versed in a lot of detachment. For example, do you... Conduct like your everyday life, just that, just on the forefront of your mind. You're just, I mean, I'm not saying you're detached the whole time, but you, you know, like, you'll detach at just a split second when you have to kind of thing. Is it that available?

• 1:43:27Jocko Willink?

  No, actually, I'm more often, I'm observing myself.

• 1:43:32Speaker 01

  The whole time, you know?

• 1:43:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Now, this is weird because sometimes people say, you don't even enjoy your life. And that's not true. You come to jujitsu with me? I, I, you know, I'm having fun, right? I'm, I'm actually so detached doing jujitsu, but I'm in the, like the zen mindset, right? My mind's not even there. So that's, that's very pleasurable for me. But you know, I'm not like detached when I'm, when I'm playing with my eight-year-old daughter. I'm not detached when I'm, you know, hanging out with my family, not in this big detachment mode. But if I'm dealing with one of my kids and one of my kids did something they shouldn't have done, or I'm detached then, yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

• 1:44:14Jocko Willink?

  When I'm dealing with a client and, you know, they're having issues with something, I'm detached. You know, a client starts getting mad at another client and I'm there, I'm detached. You know, that's one of the benefits of, of Echelon Front is Echelon Front, when we come into work with a company, we're, we're de facto detached. And they're always caught up in these crazy situations, these companies. Well, not all of them, but even a company that's doing well, they've got things that they don't see because they're in the fight. They're, they're, they're in the tactical battlefield, they're getting after it. They got sales they gotta do, they got numbers they gotta reach, they got all these things going on. They got goals, they got raises that they're doing, they got all those things happening and they're in it. So when we come in, we are detached, it's just inherent in what we're doing. And it's very beneficial because we're detached from a leadership perspective.

• 1:44:59Jocko Willink?

  And that's what we're looking at.

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:02Jocko Willink?

  So some companies might come in and they're detached, but they're not there to look at the leadership. They're there to look at the finances.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:08Jocko Willink?

  They're there to look at the process. You know, a lot of companies need help with their process. And that's cool. There's companies that, there's consulting companies that come in and look at process. There's consulting companies that come in and look at finance. We're a consulting company that comes in and looks at leadership. And what we have is we've been doing it for so long, not just in the milit- I mean, in the military and the business world, that when we come in detached, we get very obvious for all, for us to what's happening, because we've, we've seen it before.

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:37Jocko Willink?

  We've seen it before.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and in tho- but in those cases, you know, when, especially when you're quote unquote at work, you know, I would imagine it's easy to just boom detach. But like, wh- what I'm saying is just your everyday life, you know, you talk about like with your kids or something like that, is it, is it easy to, to boom detach at a moment's notice, or is it the kind of, okay, I gotta detach?

• 1:45:58Jocko Willink?

  I think I'm conditioned to the point that when things start to escalate, I automatically detach.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:46:06Jocko Willink?

  Like, when I see something, you know, if I see, let's say, um, a lifeguard situation, you know, I'm down at the beach, or I'm down at the ocean, and I see a lifeguard situation, something happening,

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:17Jocko Willink?

  I instantly detach, and I'm looking around, I'm seeing where the, where positions are, I'm seeing what we can do to help, I'm instantly detached. Whereas, a lot of people are not detached at all, they're, oh my god, this is happening. Instantly detached, completely.

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:31Jocko Willink?

  That's the kind of situ- or even, you know, if, if there's an escalation in the household of some kind, raised voices or whatever, which is not, honestly, there's not a lot in my house.

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:41Jocko Willink?

  But if there is, it, it's an instant detachment for me. I, it's an instant. When I hear my kid yelling, you know, maybe raising his voice to my wife, it's instantly, it's not, it's not, why is that kid doing, no, it's, okay. Boom, I'm, I'm detached, I'm going in to find out what's going on.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:58Jocko Willink?

  That's very, I think I've conditioned myself to be like that. And I think that's why I always talk about, you gotta have those red flags, you gotta identify what it is that you do as a human, that make, that makes you realize you're escalating too.

• 1:47:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:12Jocko Willink?

  That's what you gotta watch out for.

• 1:47:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it really seems like that's like the goal, you know, to make it, to have it be just like how you have it.

• 1:47:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. To have it conditioned into your brain that when you, when things are escalating around you, it's a warning that flashes, you just go detach.

• 1:47:29Speaker 01

  Automatic boom, that's the what happens.

• 1:47:32Jocko Willink?

  Like, you know, we'll be walking down the street and there'll be some kind of a situation in the street. It's instant detach. It's instant, alright, what's going on? Where's the cops? Where's the cars? You know, it's, it's, that's all the time.

• 1:47:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz really the, the default, I think, for, you know, your average person is how, it's not like, okay, what's the scenario? What's the problem to be solved? How do I solve it? It's more, how do I feel about this?

• 1:47:56Jocko Willink?

  You know, now that we're thinking about it, I bet, so I was, when I was training, I was, I spent time in the training department of SEAL Team One, training cell when I was part of cadre.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:48:08Jocko Willink?

  And, and there, and then obviously I ran the training for the West Coast SEALs when I was at trade debt. And in both, well, this is, this may have really helped me cuz in both those situations, I was an instructor, so therefore, while we would throw these hard problems at people, I would be, once again, de facto, I am detached because I'm not in the platoon that's going through the training. So I am detached. And so I always got to see how much more you can see when you are detached. So as I learned that over the years and saw over and over again that I could, even when I was a young SEAL in, in cadre at SEAL Team One, we would, I'm sitting there as an E5 SEAL, you know, an enlisted SEAL,

• 1:48:52Jocko Willink?

  not in charge of anything, but I'm watching the, the situation unfold and I can see what the solution is. And, and, and the, and the platoon chief can't see it. And he's more experienced than I am. He can't see it cuz he's in it. And so I would always just say, well, just, all I need to do is just step back, see what I used to be able to see when I was an instructor. Easy. Boom. So I probably got to train my detachment by actually not being in participating, but watching. Be like if you sat around and watched street fights out, like as a bouncer. As a bouncer, you're sober, you're seeing it day in, day out. Eventually, as, the, the longer, that when you first became a bouncer and there was a fight, were you detached at all?

• 1:49:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:49:35Jocko Willink?

  You probably weren't. You were probably, oh, there's a fight going on. Grab this guy. And then the more experienced you got, the more level headed you got. You can always tell a good bouncer when they, hey, you know, they can come in, they can take control. They're not escalating themselves. They're detached. So you probably achieved some of that as well.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully. Yeah, it's like you, it's almost like you, you recognize just over and over again where the beneficial position is and it's outside. It's not inside as far as mentally.

• 1:50:02Jocko Willink?

  It's outside your own head, not inside your own head.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. That's good, man. That's the goal right there.

• 1:50:08Jocko Willink?

  It is.

• 1:50:09Speaker 01

  Cause, man, yeah.

• 1:50:13Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. Military science involves knowledge of the methods of other schools. Unless you know the ways of other schools, you certainly cannot understand the way of my individual school. Gotta understand your enemy. Gotta understand other methods. Gotta understand the way other people are doing things.

• 1:50:31Jocko Willink?

  There are some other schools that are fond of extra long swords. From the point of martial art, I see them as weak schools.

• 1:50:42Jocko Willink?

  At times, when you are engaged with an opponent at close quarters, the longer sword, the longer your sword is, the harder it is to strike with it. You cannot swing the sword back and forth enough and it becomes a burden. Then you are in a worse situation than someone wielding a small sidearm sword. In the context of large military science, the extra long sword is the large contingent. A shorter one is a small contingent. Is a battle between a small contingent and a large contingent impossible? There are many examples of a small contingent winning over a large contingent. Thus, in my individual school, there is an aversion to narrow biased attitude.

• 1:51:26Jocko Willink?

  This calls for careful examination. So, yes, well, just like with a longer sword, the harder it is to maneuver. With a smaller sword, it's easier to maneuver. If you take a big giant element with you on the battlefield, it's harder to maneuver. If you take a smaller, in the business world, you set up your company, this is a large business, it's going to be less maneuverable. If you break it into smaller teams that are more maneuverable, could be very beneficial. So, you should have an aversion towards biased attitudes. Back to the book, if you slash with unreasonable force when you are going to kill someone intending to deal a powerful blow of the sword, you will not be successful.

• 1:52:07Jocko Willink?

  Even when you are making a test cut on a dummy or something, it is wrong to try to deliberately slash powerfully. When facing an enemy in mortal combat, nobody thinks of striking weakly or powerfully. When one thinks of killing each other, when one only thinks of killing the other, there's no sense of strength, and of course, no sense of weakness. One only thinks of the death of the enemy. And I like that because, obviously, we see this in martial arts when somebody's trying to knock the opponent out with every swing that they take and they miss all of them. Because they're winding up and they're telegraphing and it just doesn't work.

• 1:52:49Jocko Willink?

  The way you knock someone out is by, you know, keeping your tight combos together and throwing them. And in the business world, what I see is when people try and lead. Again, this is, it's so strange, but leader's supposed to be powerful, right? And sometimes people lead with too much power. And, and they lead with so much force that they're, that they're missing what's happening. They're missing the nuances of the people that they're leading and they're taking away the power from the people that they're trying to lead.

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, is it like how like they might be focusing too much on being powerful?

• 1:53:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they might be focusing too much on being powerful. They might be focusing on too much on being the leader.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  Right, right, yeah, yeah.

• 1:53:36Jocko Willink?

  Now, we get all into the spectrum here. Some people aren't leading enough, right? That's horrible. Some people are leading too much, which means they're turning into a micromanager, or they're overbearing and they're not getting feedback from people. So with both those, if you're trying to lead so hard, another thing that happens, you see people trying to do, is they're chasing the target, which is something we say from shooting, where they're basically shooting where their last round went. Well, you see people that are in leadership positions, they're trying so hard to be the leader. They want, they get feedback and they adjust, and they get feedback again, they adjust again. So they're trying so hard to do a good job, that they're actually failing. They're actually failing because they're trying too hard to make people happy. They're trying too hard to adapt to what people are, the feedback that they're getting. And like, what are your principles?

• 1:54:21Jocko Willink?

  Okay, the principles of your leadership shouldn't change, and the principles of the goals that you're trying to accomplish, they shouldn't be changing day to day. So why would your little tactics be changing day to day? Now you're moving all over the place. So sometimes people lead too hard. Got to be careful, that one.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Careful consideration.

• 1:54:38Jocko Willink?

  Yes. This should be examined carefully.

• 1:54:45Jocko Willink?

  "In the course of struggle for victory by military science, you win by disrupting others' defenses, by making moves opponents do not expect, by confusing opponents or irritating them or scaring them, sensing the pattern of the rhythm when the opponents get mixed up to seize victory."

• 1:55:02Jocko Willink?

  Clear. Distraction.

• 1:55:05Jocko Willink?

  "The focus of the eyes depends on the school. There are those who fix their eyes on the opponent's swords. And there are those who fix their opponents', fix their eyes on the opponent's hands. There are those who fix their eyes on the opponent's face, and there are those who fix their eyes on the opponent's feet, and so on. When you try to fix your eyes on some particular point, there is a sense of distraction and this becomes what is known as an affliction in martial arts. Generally speaking, the focus of the eyes in martial arts is on the hearts and minds of the people involved."

• 1:55:46Jocko Willink?

  We need to understand people. We need to understand human nature.

• 1:55:54Jocko Willink?

  And to fight and to win.

• 1:55:59Jocko Willink?

  In my martial art, there's no change in footwork. It is just like walking along a road as usual. Following the rhythm of the opponent, finding the right physical position and conditions of both hurry and calm. The stride should be orderly without slack or excess.

• 1:56:19Jocko Willink?

  This is when I was a brand new SEAL. And one of my favorite awesome instructors that was putting, he was one of the cadre when I was going through. But he's the first guy that I heard say running to your death. But when he would move, he was an extreme, he's probably one of the best shooters in the SEAL teams. As far as pistol rifle combat shooting, he was definitely one of the best. And when he would move through a building, he would just be moving at this steady pace. And it was just the most awesome thing. It's faster than a walk, but it's definitely not a run and it's smooth. And he would give us little examples of how effective it was and how you needed to move that way.

• 1:57:02Jocko Willink?

  And that's, that's, that's exactly what this reminded me of. It's like good pace, solid pace, and you just steady.

• 1:57:11Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, when you master an art or science, your performance does not appear to be fast. The performance of an expert seems relaxed, but does not leave any gaps. The actions of trained people do not seem rushed. Like Jeff Glover, when you're watching him, the word that always comes to my mind is smooth. And he's going fast, but it looks so smooth. And it is fast, lightning fast, but it's so smooth.

• 1:57:42Jocko Willink?

  My way of teaching martial arts is to have beginners learn and practice those techniques that are easily mastered. First, teaching them the principles that they will readily understand. As for those things that their minds have a hard time reaching, I observe the understanding of the individual. Subsequently, teaching them deeper principles gradually step by step. So you start teaching people things that they understand.

• 1:58:07Jocko Willink?

  Accordingly, in transmitting my science, I do not care for written pledges or articles of penalties.

• 1:58:15Jocko Willink?

  Observing the intellectual power of students, teaching them a straight path, having them abandon the bad aspects of the five ways or the six ways of martial arts, so that they naturally enter in to the real science of warriors, causing their minds to be free from doubt. This is the way I teach martial arts. Thorough training and practice are necessary. So this reminds me of all the clickbait articles that are out there that say, in fact, we made a funny video that said, "The one thing you need to do to change." And it was, it's clickbait, because you see those all the time. I was looking at a website the other day, or a social media feed the other day from one of those websites. Every, I counted like 14 in a row

• 1:59:02Jocko Willink?

  of the articles that were posted were five things that every CEO does. Seven steps to, you know, this, and four, because those are just clickbait. People are like, "Oh, cool. That's cool." They've broken it down into four things I can easily understand. Click, I'm gonna click on that. Let's do it. And now I can be, now I can achieve, you know, whatever.

• 1:59:22Speaker 01

  That's all I need to know. I don't have to work anymore after that?

• 1:59:25Jocko Willink?

  Just read the list, bro, you're good. So that's some stuff you gotta watch out for. Click on those things. But you know what? That's what people do. They're interested. Seven ways a Navy SEAL, blah, blah, blah. They did that. They've done that with some of mine. They took, they took the dichotomy of leadership, and they made it into an article. It's like 12 things every leader, Navy SEALs, 12 things every leader needs to, characteristics or something like that. They broke it down like that. They've done that with actually quite a few things that we've done. They've, they've changed it from, you know, the dichotomy of leadership, which is a concept, right? It's a concept, and there are some examples of the concept, but that's the one that they turned into like a cartoon,

• 2:00:07Jocko Willink?

  where they got me in all these weird, different outfits. Have you seen that? They got me in like a salmon-colored sports jacket. And they got me, oh, one of them is, I'm dressed like Sherlock Holmes. I'm serious. This exists.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  Wait, is the video?

• 2:00:21Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no. It's, it's, it's a, it's a cartoon, I guess is what you call it, but it's an article.

• 2:00:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:00:27Jocko Willink?

  I think it's Business Insider. It's an article and it's got this cartoons of me. And it's saying the 12, I think it's the 12 characteristics every leader needs to follow. But they took the dichotomy of leadership, which is a concept of which I give examples in the book of how this concept applies, but they just said, no, it's not a concept. It's these are the 12 things. See? You, we don't want a concept. That might be too hard to understand. No one's gonna click on that.

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:54Jocko Willink?

  Gotta click on those things.

• 2:00:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, in their defense, it is more like, what do you call it? Digestible?

• 2:01:01Jocko Willink?

  Well, for sure. For sure. No, I, I totally understand what they're doing. And you know what? If it gets someone, which is their goal is to get people to read it. And if someone reads it and goes, okay, that's a cool, I understand there's a concept beyond it. Yeah, credit. Good job. They are, but, but what we see is people that are doing it and they're actually, their purpose is to get the click and they're not actually trying to introduce people to something more deep than that. There's just something deeper than that. They're just trying to get them to click on that and, and feel good for the next 30 seconds. They go, man, I'm gonna definitely do those four steps.

• 2:01:35Speaker 01

  Three things to do to incinerate belly fat.

• 2:01:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there you go. There you go. There's another one. Incineration. I like it.

• 2:01:46Speaker 01

  Very powerful.

• 2:01:48Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. In my individual school, there is no such thing as a distinction between initiatory and inner lore about the long sword.

• 2:02:01Jocko Willink?

  So, that is awesome. And what he's saying is, there's no difference between what you learn in the beginning and what you learn in the end. It's the same. I was talking about that with Leif today. The concepts are the concepts. The concepts are the concepts and what you learn in the beginning about combat, they stay true. And that's why we're reading a book from 1643 that's telling you to take the high ground.

• 2:02:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:27Jocko Willink?

  That's why. Cause what you get introduced to, the true concepts, they remain constant. Do the tactics change? Sure. Do we get radios? Do we get night vision? Do we get long range weapons? Yes, of course, we get all those things, but the principles, the fundamental principles of combat leadership, they don't change.

• 2:02:46Jocko Willink?

  There is, back to the book, there is no such thing as the ultimate guard.

• 2:02:54Jocko Willink?

  It is only a matter of understanding its effective qualities in your heart and mind.

• 2:03:01Jocko Willink?

  This is what is essential to martial arts. So I think it's so important, and I've always tried to maintain this. Is that there is no perfect thing. There is no perfect thing. And I've, I've said this about jiu-jitsu. I mean, I always get pigeonholed as a jiu-jitsu, like, oh, Jocko thinks jiu-jitsu is the best thing in the world. When I will readily and have always readily admitted the many weaknesses of jiu-jitsu.

• 2:03:29Jocko Willink?

  I happen to love jiu-jitsu as a thing to do, as a hobby. And I also do think it is the best place to start your self-defense journey. But then you absolutely have to learn how to wrestle. You absolutely have to learn how to box. You absolutely have to learn some Muay Thai. And beyond that, you have to start learning weapons. You have to learn how to, all those things are important. And with jiu-jitsu, same thing. Even inside of jiu-jitsu, I don't look at it and say, there's a one way to do it. The minute you say there's a one way.

• 2:04:03Speaker 01

  Getting flanked.

• 2:04:04Jocko Willink?

  You're, you're getting flanked. You're getting flanked.

• 2:04:10Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. This is now we're getting the last scroll here, the scroll of emptiness.

• 2:04:16Jocko Willink?

  Warriors learn military science accurately and go on to practice the techniques of martial arts diligently.

• 2:04:25Jocko Willink?

  The way that is practiced by warriors is not obscure in the least. Without any confusion in mind, without slacking off at any time. Polishing the mind and attention, sharpening the eye that observes and the eye that sees. One should know. Real emptiness as the state where there is no obscurity and the clouds of confusion have cleared away. So when you hear like the talking about the empty mind and all that, really good definition of what that is. No obscurity and the clouds of confusion have gone away.

• 2:05:10Speaker 01

  What they call that the moochin mind, moochin?

• 2:05:12Jocko Willink?

  I don't know. They, they, there's a word like that, but I don't know what it is right now. I call monkey mind, actually is what I've always called it.

• 2:05:19Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 2:05:22Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, knowing that mentality. Taking straightforwardness as basic, taking the real mind as the way. Practicing martial arts in the broadest sense. Thinking correctly, clearly and comprehensively. Taking emptiness as the way, you see the way as emptiness.

• 2:05:54Jocko Willink?

  In emptiness, there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists. Logic exists. The way exists. Mind is empty.

• 2:06:10Jocko Willink?

  12 May 1645.

• 2:06:17Jocko Willink?

  And.

• 2:06:21Jocko Willink?

  That's how he wraps it up. And about a month later, and about a week before he died, which is on the 13th of June 1645, he wrote his final piece, which is called the dakodo,

• 2:06:44Jocko Willink?

  which translates to "the path of aloneness", or "the way to go forth alone", or "the way of walking alone", or "the way to be followed alone", I found all those different translations. In all those titles, one thing that comes through clearly is that this is a piece about asceticism, which is a great word. And you hear it a lot in religious philosophies, and it means severe self-discipline, and avoidance of all forms of indulgence. That's what asceticism is. And so here, he's got these 21 rules,

• 2:07:28Jocko Willink?

  these 21 rules to walk this path of aloneness. And we're going to go through. One, accept everything just the way it is.

• 2:07:41Jocko Willink?

  That's pretty simple, and it's pretty damn powerful. Two, do not seek pleasure for its own sake.

• 2:07:52Jocko Willink?

  Three, do not, under any circumstances, depend on a partial feeling.

• 2:08:00Jocko Willink?

  Four, think lightly of yourself, and deeply of the world.

• 2:08:09Jocko Willink?

  That's called humility.

• 2:08:13Jocko Willink?

  Five, be detached from desire your whole life long.

• 2:08:22Jocko Willink?

  And that's hard to do. And there's one of my.

• 2:08:29Jocko Willink?

  If I had to pick a favorite poet besides Shakespeare, but there's another guy named William Blake, who is a poet and he was a painter and he, he printed things and he was a. I studied him in college. Didn't like a lot of stuff I studied in college, but I liked William Blake. And one of the things that when I read that line, I thought about something that William Blake had said. And this is totally contrary to that. Listen to this. Those who restrain desire do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained.

• 2:09:05Jocko Willink?

  I'm not even gonna take a side on that one. I'm gonna let Musashi and William Blake figure that one out.

• 2:09:12Jocko Willink?

  I think you gotta balance those two. I guess I just took a side. No, I didn't. I went right in the middle. Right in the middle, the balance. I'm about the balance.

• 2:09:22Jocko Willink?

  Six, do not regret what you have done.

• 2:09:26Jocko Willink?

  Seven, never be jealous.

• 2:09:31Jocko Willink?

  Boom, by the way. Eight, never let yourself be saddened by a separation. Nine, resentment and complaint are appropriate neither for oneself or others.

• 2:09:49Jocko Willink?

  We don't like complaints around here.

• 2:09:52Jocko Willink?

  Ten, do not let yourself be guided by the feeling of lust or love.

• 2:09:59Jocko Willink?

  Now, if people could obey that one. Especially between the ages of 16 and 25. You solve all kinds of problems for self. In your life.

• 2:10:13Jocko Willink?

  Eleven.

• 2:10:16Jocko Willink?

  In all things, have no preferences.

• 2:10:22Jocko Willink?

  Think about that.

• 2:10:25Jocko Willink?

  Think about that. Think about of everything that you deal with on a day to day basis, you, you, you try and not have preferences.

• 2:10:35Jocko Willink?

  Twelve, be indifferent to where you live.

• 2:10:40Jocko Willink?

  That's a tough one for me. Kinda like San Diego. Yeah.

• 2:10:47Jocko Willink?

  Do not pursue the taste of good food.

• 2:10:53Jocko Willink?

  Kind of a challenging one.

• 2:10:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:10:56Jocko Willink?

  Maybe he wasn't.

• 2:10:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:58Jocko Willink?

  Around ribeyes.

• 2:10:59Speaker 01

  But he wasn't around sushi though, so it's I guess, you know, there's something, in my opinion.

• 2:11:06Jocko Willink?

  But I'll tell you what, the fasting thing is, I've been like, just getting after some fast lately. It feels so good.

• 2:11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:16Jocko Willink?

  It feels so good. And somebody asked me on Twitter the other day, do you ever not scratch an itch? Just to work on your discipline? And I was like, oh yeah, who doesn't do that, right? But there is something cool about the fasting, the control, the discipline is is pretty cool.

• 2:11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:34Jocko Willink?

  It's it's it's pretty cool to do. And it feels rewarding.

• 2:11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:39Jocko Willink?

  It feels rewarding. Every time you say, I don't really need to eat that, whatever that thing is.

• 2:11:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:46Jocko Willink?

  But like, I'm not gonna die.

• 2:11:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:48Jocko Willink?

  I can make it to, you know, this evening, when I'm gonna eat a nice big dinner. There's something good about that. Something rewarding.

• 2:11:55Speaker 01

  Yep. Yeah, in a couple of ways, for sure. That itch thing, I've done that before, like, actually, a lot of times, just to see, not because, oh, I'm gonna, you know, see how tough I can be with not scratching the itch, but just to see, like, what's gonna happen to the itch? You know, it usually gets scratched and that's it. Like, what's gonna happen though, if I just let it go?

• 2:12:11Jocko Willink?

  Maybe your arm will grow and get infected.

• 2:12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I've found this is two different things. One thing that happens is the itch simply goes away.

• 2:12:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, goes away.

• 2:12:22Speaker 01

  Then the other one, ultimately, they both go away, but the other one is like, it gets crazy to the point where you get, right, like, um, uh, it was a mosquito bite.

• 2:12:34Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, that's a little different.

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, but still, it's an itch, though. But the itch just gets like deeper and it's crazy, but it goes away.

• 2:12:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:42Speaker 01

  Discipline.

• 2:12:43Jocko Willink?

  Discipline. Fourteen. Do not hold on to possessions you no longer need.

• 2:12:53Jocko Willink?

  Again, the original minimalist here.

• 2:12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:56Jocko Willink?

  I need to get minimalist with some of my old t-shirts.

• 2:13:00Speaker 01

  Make way for the new ones.

• 2:13:01Jocko Willink?

  Got those old t-shirts. No, I got old jujitsu t-shirts from 1997 competition. I don't want to throw that away. They got a little sentimental meaning. I want that thing.

• 2:13:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, just give you a new one, you know, let's not get rid of that one.

• 2:13:13Jocko Willink?

  This is an interesting one. Number 15. Do not act following customary beliefs. So here's a guy, you know, from the Samurai tradition, steeped in tradition. He's like, don't act by those customary beliefs.

• 2:13:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:28Jocko Willink?

  Have an open mind.

• 2:13:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:31Jocko Willink?

  Do not collect weapons or practice weapons beyond what is useful.

• 2:13:37Jocko Willink?

  Well, some of us like weapons. Uh, yes. Do not fear death.

• 2:13:46Jocko Willink?

  Number 17. Do not fear death. That's affirmative. Number 18. Do not seek to possess either goods or fiefs beyond your old age or four-year-old age. Makes sense, right? 19. Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help.

• 2:14:10Jocko Willink?

  Without counting on their help. Seems like a good move.

• 2:14:16Jocko Willink?

  Number 20. You may abandon your own body, but you must preserve your honor.

• 2:14:28Jocko Willink?

  Indeed. And number 21.

• 2:14:32Jocko Willink?

  Never stray from the way.

• 2:14:39Jocko Willink?

  And

• 2:14:42Jocko Willink?

  that's some incredible guidance and so much of it is so simple.

• 2:14:51Jocko Willink?

  And yet so powerful and it's from 1645 and what struck me the most about this, these 21 rules,

• 2:15:05Jocko Willink?

  is that he wrote them on his deathbed. And the suspicion is he died of some kind of cancer which had rapidly weakened him.

• 2:15:18Jocko Willink?

  And this is what he wrote on his deathbed. He wrote about not,

• 2:15:25Jocko Willink?

  he wrote about

• 2:15:28Jocko Willink?

  not letting desires control you but controlling your desires.

• 2:15:34Jocko Willink?

  He wrote not about gaining more possessions but ridding yourself of them.

• 2:15:42Jocko Willink?

  He wrote about not being the center of the world,

• 2:15:47Jocko Willink?

  but being humble and being in the world.

• 2:15:53Jocko Willink?

  And he wrote, as a warrior, not about fighting things but accepting them.

• 2:16:01Jocko Willink?

  And he wrote about controlling his feelings.

• 2:16:08Jocko Willink?

  And all those rules, what they're about is they're about discipline.

• 2:16:17Jocko Willink?

  Discipline and in his final days, after this incredible life that he lived,

• 2:16:29Jocko Willink?

  he knew it was discipline that would set him free

• 2:16:38Jocko Willink?

  from those clouds of confusion.

• 2:16:46Jocko Willink?

  And I think we should probably all

• 2:16:53Jocko Willink?

  pay attention to that.

• 2:16:57Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's all we've got from Musashi for tonight until we get to episode 100 where we'll be covering the novel Musashi, which I was reading it the other night. And there's a reason why we're gonna cover it. I think it's the first novel we're gonna cover. In fact, it is. There's no, we haven't covered any novels. The Way of the Warrior Kids novel.

• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:17:26Jocko Willink?

  But this is the first novel we're covering. Now, everyone thought, myself included, that the first novel we would cover would be Blood Meridian, which is also a historically based novel.

• 2:17:37Jocko Willink?

  I'm still not ready for Blood Meridian. I'm still not ready for Blood Meridian. I'm reading it over and over again, chunks of it. And it's deep. And it's, so, the first novel will be Musashi.

• 2:17:58Jocko Willink?

  And we're gonna learn a lot from that one.

• 2:18:02Jocko Willink?

  And I'm gonna start with the same opening we started with today.

• 2:18:05Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:18:06Jocko Willink?

  That opening, that opening is just legit, isn't it?

• 2:18:10Speaker 01

  It is.

• 2:18:11Jocko Willink?

  When you read that opening,

• 2:18:15Jocko Willink?

  "The whole world's gone crazy. A man one might as well be a dead leaf floating in the autumn breeze. He's laying in piles of corpses."

• 2:18:27Jocko Willink?

  That's how you kick off a novel.

• 2:18:31Jocko Willink?

  Uh, we can learn a lot. We can always learn a lot from the past. And, you know, speaking of learning things.

• 2:18:39Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:18:39Jocko Willink?

  Is there anything that you could teach us quickly about? If anyone wants to learn how to support this podcast?

• 2:18:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. When you say quickly, you want me to just talk in a fast pace or? Keep it short. Or both?

• 2:18:56Jocko Willink?

  A little bit of both. I'm not trying to truncate, you know, your gig.

• 2:19:01Speaker 01

  You don't want me to rush, per se.

• 2:19:04Jocko Willink?

  I don't want you to rush. But I don't want to be here much longer.

• 2:19:08Speaker 01

  Don't dilly-dally. Yes, I got you. Alright, well, let's talk about Onnit. I feel that's the best way to start. I went to Hawaii. Yeah, story. That's right. I went to Hawaii. I went to Hawaii. Forgot my krill oil.

• 2:19:21Jocko Willink?

  Ooh.

• 2:19:22Speaker 01

  Rough deal. It's warm over there, so not too bad. And a lot of the workouts I was doing were pretty like light.

• 2:19:29Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:19:31Speaker 01

  So it was less of a factor, but when I came home, next day, I walked downstairs strangely, because in Hawaii, you do a lot of, you know, walking on the beach, all this stuff. I'm dragging my kids around in this wagon. So it's weird. Your feet get a workout. So I'm walking down the stairs today. I'm like, oh, my feet. They're all stiff. Anyway, no krill oil. Boom, back on the krill oil, back home, all good. So point there being, don't stop taking your krill oil. You will feel it. Look, it's not a detrimental thing. Well, for me, it's not. I don't know. I can't speak for everybody. It could be detrimental if you stop. You know, like your joints being stiff all of a sudden.

• 2:20:07Jocko Willink?

  I think it's detrimental.

• 2:20:08Speaker 01

  Might affect other people more than others.

• 2:20:11Jocko Willink?

  To your feet, apparently.

• 2:20:11Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, yeah. In my case, for sure. Krill oil is for your joints. I get mine at Onnit. Chaco gets his at Onnit. Onnit is the most reputable place to get it. Omega threes for your joints. Also, what else do we need to get after it? If you're going high intensity, if you're going high performance, for yourself. I'm not saying Olympic athlete necessarily. I'm not saying not Olympic athlete necessarily. Shroom Tech Sport.

• 2:20:39Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 2:20:40Speaker 01

  Keeps you in the the yellow and the green. It doesn't allow you to go in the red. That's how it feels. That's my best way to sum it up.

• 2:20:47Speaker 01

  Like, if you have another round, let's say you're on your last set of like, I don't know,

• 2:20:54Speaker 01

  jujitsu or something hard. Or you're doing circuit training, you gotta do one more round. This one will, will get you there without going into the red. It's called Shroom Tech Sport. Do it. Lets you utilize your oxygen consumption into your muscles better, more efficiently. It's way better. Also, you know, a good way to do that is when you breathe with your diaphragm, from what I read, you uptake 10% more oxygen. Remember that next time you're breathing.

• 2:21:20Jocko Willink?

  I don't need to breathe.

• 2:21:23Speaker 01

  Also, you know, breathing exercise, I thought breathing exercises were like, oh, all these yogis, they're just doing breathing exercises, you know, like I know how to breathe. I was breathing when I was born. I know how to breathe. Thirty something, some odd years of breathing experience, I know. But those.

• 2:21:39Jocko Willink?

  That goes an experienced breather.

• 2:21:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, very experienced, very, and holding my breath, all that stuff, you know?

• 2:21:45Jocko Willink?

  Well, you're from Kauai.

• 2:21:46Speaker 01

  Hey man, you know, you gotta jump in the water every once in a while, swim underneath it. Anyway, when you breathe, those muscles, you know what I mean, that help you breathe and your, you know, your ribs and your diaphragm, like if those are strong, you can breathe better.

• 2:22:02Jocko Willink?

  True.

• 2:22:03Speaker 01

  I'm just saying that's, don't neglect that. So the breathing exercise, people, respect. But chemically, if you want, you know, better oxygen uptake, Shroom Tech Sport, that's the one. Krill oil, alpha brain for your brain.

• 2:22:16Speaker 01

  I can't go into the neural science of it right now, but you can if you want, just go to the website, onnit.com. And if you want 10% off of any of this stuff, go onnit.com/jaco. Now, don't think that alpha brain, Shroom Tech Sport and krill oil are the only things on there because there's, I'm tempted to say literally,

• 2:22:39Speaker 01

  I don't really overuse the word literally, do I?

• 2:22:42Jocko Willink?

  No, you don't.

• 2:22:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:43Jocko Willink?

  Approved. Use it, you're approved.

• 2:22:45Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna say borderline literally, there's stuff or anything on there. Like if you need supplementation for something, there's even workout equipment on there, like good stuff too.

• 2:22:57Speaker 01

  I don't think you'll find like a like dumbbells though.

• 2:23:01Jocko Willink?

  No, there's no.

• 2:23:03Speaker 01

  Because that's not re- you know.

• 2:23:04Jocko Willink?

  You can get dumbbells anywhere.

• 2:23:05Speaker 01

  Yes. Go to Amazon for dumbbells and.

• 2:23:11Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of Amazon.

• 2:23:14Speaker 01

  Actually, just so I'm clear, though, if you want 10% off this stuff, there is a lot of cool stuff. They even have normal like workout stuff, but the cooler version of it. Like how I always mentioned the kettlebells. Kettlebells are cool in and of themselves and beyond the coolness. They're they're one of the best exercise equipment. Equipments.

• 2:23:36Jocko Willink?

  Pieces of equipment.

• 2:23:37Speaker 01

  Pieces of equipment. Exactly right.

• 2:23:38Jocko Willink?

  I'm here for you.

• 2:23:39Speaker 01

  But I did, um, it's called clean and press, right?

• 2:23:42Jocko Willink?

  Clean and press, yes.

• 2:23:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:23:44Jocko Willink?

  Unless you use your legs, then it's a jerk.

• 2:23:47Speaker 01

  All right.

• 2:23:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:47Speaker 01

  They split. Okay. So boom, clean, press. And then boom, right to burpee. So I go six and five, six and five. Metcon, just go eight minutes. Boom.

• 2:23:59Jocko Willink?

  Many as you can.

• 2:24:01Speaker 01

  I I wasn't focusing on as many as I can. I've I was trying to go for like seven sets.

• 2:24:06Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:24:06Speaker 01

  I've I lost count of the sets. It was the first time I was doing it. My son, he's nine months old, by the way, he's crawling around. I can't be flying the kettlebells and landing on his. Anything.

• 2:24:16Jocko Willink?

  No, not anything.

• 2:24:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 2:24:17Jocko Willink?

  There's no safe landing on the baby with the kettlebells.

• 2:24:19Speaker 01

  Exactly right. So I lost. Nonetheless, the point is I lost count. When I was done, eight minutes, thirty something. That's what it was. Good workout. Metcon. Boom. Anyway, so if you do kettlebells, go to Onnit, look at their kettlebells. Tell me what you think. That's all I'm gonna say. Anyway, Onnit.com slash Jocko, get 10% off.

• 2:24:40Speaker 01

  On there. Back to Amazon. Amazon, click through. If you like these books, what is this? Musashi, of course.

• 2:24:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, Musashi, Book of Five Rings. And Musashi, the Novel by Iji Yoshikawa.

• 2:24:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And what that has to do with Amazon is we have all these books listed on our website in the books section. Top menu, books on the podcast. Click there. They're in order by episode. Click on there, it'll take you to Amazon, the Amazon link. Boom, you get the book that supports the podcast. And you know, any other shopping you may or may not want to do. Boom, click through the link. Good to go. As far as support goes, small action.

• 2:25:20Speaker 01

  Huge reaction. I know, I haven't said it in a while, I'm gonna say it. What else is there a small action? Huge reaction. Chemically, physical change, chemical change. Tell me.

• 2:25:32Jocko Willink?

  Are you asking me?

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:25:34Jocko Willink?

  I'm not gonna answer you to say.

• 2:25:35Speaker 01

  Alright, well, I know you know, and everyone else may or may not know, but if you don't, the answer is sodium. Metal. When you put it in water, it's just a small piece of sodium. I learned this in 10th grade chemistry. Put it in water, see what happens. Explodes. Same thing. When you click through, uh, you know, the website for your Amazon stuff, the books, or whatever, duct tape, all that stuff. Also, good way to support, subscribe to the podcast. That's on all of these things, iTunes, of course, Stitcher, Google Play, all the podcasting providing platforms. Subscribe. Good way to support. Leave a review.

• 2:26:12Speaker 01

  Reviews are good.

• 2:26:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, appreciate the reviews.

• 2:26:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, very much so, it's fun, like, when, and I don't get bored. But when I'm compelled to read the reviews, it can be very fun to read. I probably read yours if you left one.

• 2:26:27Jocko Willink?

  I did read yours. If anyone that's left a review, I've read it.

• 2:26:31Speaker 01

  Dang.

• 2:26:32Jocko Willink?

  I've read them. I think it was like thirteen hundred. Or something, fourteen hundred.

• 2:26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:37Jocko Willink?

  But I didn't read them all at once, I read them like once every three, four days, or if I'm getting ready to record the podcast, I'll, I'll go on there and see if there's any

• 2:26:45Speaker 01

  See what up.

• 2:26:46Jocko Willink?

  points.

• 2:26:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:47Jocko Willink?

  To take into account.

• 2:26:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, the good thing about, and these are iTunes reviews, right?

• 2:26:52Jocko Willink?

  Yes, they are.

• 2:26:53Speaker 01

  You're reading. Yeah, the good thing about iTunes reviews are their like quality, and I don't mean like, oh, all necessarily good or, or whatever. It's in quality, like, you can tell someone's like, okay, here's my review, here's my legit review. Even if they're getting nuts with the review.

• 2:27:06Jocko Willink?

  And you're actually helping too, because when you write a review and you kind of let people know what's up with it, what's up with the podcast, then they, then they go, oh, this sounds like something I should listen to. If they listen to it, maybe they'll get something out of it. It spreads the word, so it does help.

• 2:27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, and let's face it, you get more people.

• 2:27:26Speaker 01

  Following any of these discipline equals freedom, you know.

• 2:27:30Jocko Willink?

  Making the world a better place, straight up.

• 2:27:32Speaker 01

  Let's face it, you get a room of 10 people, you get one guy exhibiting extreme, extreme ownership. And then you get another room, same 10, or another 10 people, you got 10 guys exhibiting extreme ownership. What room's better? The 10 extreme ownership room. Just saying, so that could be you when you leave a review and it affects someone else. So yeah, subscribe. Also, you can subscribe on YouTube if you are interested in the video version of this podcast. You want to see what Jocko looks like if you don't know already.

• 2:28:04Speaker 01

  And you can see what I look like, which you probably don't know. I look different than I sound, apparently. Anyway, that's on YouTube. Also, some excerpts on there, right? Providing small Jocko McNuggets of value. So you don't have to share the whole two, two and a half hour thing, you know, with your friend. If you, if you like a concept, you can just share the, you know, the two minute excerpt, three minute, whatever, you know, shareable. So they can watch it and then go to work rather than be late for work after listening to two hours. Potentially. Also, Jocko has a store. It's called Jocko Store. jockostore.com. No haiku there. If you are interested in what? T-shirts, rash guards.

• 2:28:51Speaker 01

  We're coming out with some hats here pretty soon.

• 2:28:54Jocko Willink?

  I can't wait to get a hat.

• 2:28:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, the hats, the hats are good though. Real good.

• 2:28:59Jocko Willink?

  Of course.

• 2:29:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:01Jocko Willink?

  They best be.

• 2:29:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Some travel mugs on there. Good travel mugs, you know, they, they insulate the heat. Apparently that's not like a new thing.

• 2:29:09Jocko Willink?

  No, I know. You were amazed by it.

• 2:29:10Speaker 01

  I, I'm still amazed by it, even though I know it's not that new of a thing. You know, I could, I could easily tell you the story about the ice water I had that lasted till the next day. The ice was still in there. I could easily tell you that. I'm not going to waste your time today. Nonetheless, when you have it, boom, keeps the heat in there for like eight hours. And it looks dope, black on black. Women's stuff on there. Shirts, of course. Jocko's face saying good. If you have, so the good video, a lot of people have seen that video. You know, Joe Rogan says good things about that video. So people have watched that video. So essentially that shirt is that video personified in a shirt.

• 2:29:52Speaker 01

  Here's a little tip, I've said it before, but sometimes people miss this part of it. The "good" on the bottom is written backwards. You know why? Because it's for you when you look in the mirror.

• 2:30:02Speaker 01

  That's not, that message is not for everyone else looking at your shirt. That's what Jocko's face is for. Jocko's face is also for you. When you look in the mirror, he's telling you "good", you know? "Good will come out of your situation."

• 2:30:15Jocko Willink?

  I went to my eight-year-old daughter's classroom and answered questions as an author about Way of the Warrior Kid, and they had read the Way of the Warrior Kid in the classroom. And I gave out, I had bookmarks, we have, the publisher made bookmarks that say, "Way of the Warrior Kid" on one side, you know, it's got Mark doing a pull-up. The other side is the advertisement for Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. And that's got my face on it, like the "good" face.

• 2:30:43Speaker 01

  Sure, iconic.

• 2:30:44Jocko Willink?

  And so we handed those out, and one of the kids came up to me and says, "You look creepy in this picture."

• 2:30:52Jocko Willink?

  So of course I said, "Thank you."

• 2:30:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I would say, I see what he's getting at, I don't think he looked creepy.

• 2:31:00Jocko Willink?

  Well.

• 2:31:01Speaker 01

  It's an iconic. He did, apparently. Hey, man, yes.

• 2:31:05Jocko Willink?

  Are you allowed to say it's an iconic picture because you took the picture? Isn't that kind of?

• 2:31:09Speaker 01

  I guess, technically, yeah, I'm allowed to say that, but that is not why I say it.

• 2:31:13Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:31:13Speaker 01

  I say it because I believe, I believe it is iconic.

• 2:31:19Jocko Willink?

  Uh, maybe.

• 2:31:20Speaker 01

  To the point, but I think that, that's.

• 2:31:22Jocko Willink?

  Maybe for you and me sitting in this room, it's a pretty iconic picture.

• 2:31:26Speaker 01

  It is, I think so.

• 2:31:27Jocko Willink?

  If we discount the rest of the universe and world, then maybe we don't quite need that.

• 2:31:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're thinking like.

• 2:31:33Jocko Willink?

  Of iconic.

• 2:31:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, maybe I'm stretching the term, I don't know. It's like, when I went to KwaI, that was the shirt that I wore the most, I think. That one and the Jody Midic podcast shirt.

• 2:31:43Jocko Willink?

  Oh, nice.

• 2:31:44Speaker 01

  They're both the same color too, by the way.

• 2:31:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Props.

• 2:31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. So yeah, jockostore.com, see, see what shirt you like. If you like any of the shirts, I'm not saying to buy, buy a shirt or a rashgar, I'm not saying that. I'm saying, go to jockostore.com. Take a look, if you like something.

• 2:32:02Speaker 01

  Get something that supports the podcast and supports yourself, you know, you get a cool shirt and/or rash guard. That's it.

• 2:32:10Speaker 01

  Also, psychological warfare, if you don't know what that is, which I know many people do, but in the event of you not knowing in this case, psychological warfare is an album with tracks that is available on iTunes and Amazon Music and these places where you can buy MP3s and albums and stuff like that. Digital music, if you will, but this isn't music. It's Jocko. Each track is Jocko telling you why pragmatically, by the way,

• 2:32:38Speaker 01

  you should not succumb to weakness in your journey.

• 2:32:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:44Speaker 01

  We're doing journey, right?

• 2:32:46Jocko Willink?

  You're doing journey more so than me.

• 2:32:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:49Jocko Willink?

  But we'll go with it. It's your part here.

• 2:32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, in your.

• 2:32:53Jocko Willink?

  Go with the flow. Flow with the go.

• 2:32:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, in your journey in getting after it in general, you're waking up early in the morning. I know that's not easy to do every single day. You're, you know, sticking to the diet, especially at work, you know, when they bring those donuts, right? We understand.

• 2:33:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:13Speaker 01

  When you get those moments of weakness that you're gonna start slacking, even just for one moment, you listen to one of these tracks, the appropriate track, and you will, and I'll say this 100% with 100% certainty, you will not slack. You will wake up and you will continue. There it is. It's like a little spot.

• 2:33:33Jocko Willink?

  Also, you can get Jocko White Tea on Amazon. Here is a verified purchase review, okay? So this person, this is verified.

• 2:33:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:44Jocko Willink?

  Right, verified.

• 2:33:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:46Jocko Willink?

  Do you understand what that means?

• 2:33:46Speaker 01

  Wait, a verified person on Amazon?

• 2:33:49Jocko Willink?

  A person, this is a verified review of a person that actually bought, and this is what happened. I'm an employee of Newport News Shipbuilding. We build aircraft carriers and submarines for the Navy. Since consuming Jocko White Tea, production has increased substantially. We've subsequently delivered two nuclear aircraft carriers and three nuclear subs to the Navy. While I won't argue that correlation equals causation. I won't say it's a coincidence either. Get some. So, you know, we're talking, you know, take you normally it takes years, you know, four or five years to build an aircraft carrier. Now they're apparently knocking them out. 60 days. No factor. And again, that's a verified

• 2:34:31Jocko Willink?

  purchase review. Way the Warrior Kid. It is also available wherever you buy books. And that one, I got another verified purchase review there. If you're looking for a book for your kids with a solid message about how to approach life, this is it. The impact is had on my kids was immediate. They asked me if they could do the same things that the kid does and is with his uncle in the book. The best part is that they're asking to become more active, training harder at jujitsu, asked about healthier choices for meals and picking up a book instead of playing video games. It makes a huge difference when they are the ones making the choice instead of me making that choice for them. If your kids

• 2:35:12Jocko Willink?

  read just one book this year, this is the one. Pretty awesome. That's makes me super stoked when I hear that kids are picking up books instead of playing video games. So that's Way the Warrior Kid. Also, we're actually getting into the red zone on Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. I'm finishing the final edits. You know, this is sort of like my book of five rings. You know what I'm saying? Like Musashi wrote that. Now I'm not on my deathbed yet, hopefully, but this is what I think. This is what I do. These are the thoughts, actions, words of my life, what I work out. This is how I work out, what food

• 2:35:52Jocko Willink?

  I eat, recovery martial arts. This is it. Comes out October 17th. The cover is done as a new cover. They, well, they finished the cover and people were worried because the original cover that they put up is, is just a black cover with it says Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual by Jocko Willink. That was the original cover that I designed and told them to post, which they did. And then there's been one little addition to that. Sure. Check it out. Because some people, they, because they had originally, they had a sticker on there that said, "Cover not final," meaning that people were thinking, oh, they're gonna, they're gonna make it all stupid, all salesy, or whatever.

• 2:36:36Jocko Willink?

  But there was a little addition made to that cover. You can check it out. Iconic? Possibly. Maybe if, if you really bend and stretch that word, you might be getting there. Of course, Extreme Ownership. That's the other book. Available right now, obviously. Where it started here, Combat Leadership Applied to the Battlefield, to Business, and to Life. Boom. Get it. Also, if you need support, training, and transforming your leadership team, wherever you are, at your business, your corporation, wherever you are, contact us.

• 2:37:18Jocko Willink?

  Leadership and Management Consulting, [email protected]. Also, The muster, Austin, Texas, July 13th and 14th, Omni Barton Creek Resort. Now, what's cool about this is basically an enclosed environment. When you're in San Diego, you know, you can go out, you can get around. The Omni Barton Creek is a little bit outside of town, so it's gonna be just us there. It's not that huge. So it's gonna be us. It's gonna be, we're gonna overrun the place with troopers, and it'll be great.

• 2:37:49Jocko Willink?

  The one thing that's not so great is there's only 300 seats. I think we got about 40 or 50 seats left for the Austin muster. So, register ASAP. There's no room for expansion. In New York, we sold out 350, we expanded the room to 400, we expanded it to 450, rearranged chairs. There's no room to do that in Austin. So, I apologize. If you want to come to Austin, or if you're in Austin, or if you're in Texas, or wherever you're at, you want to come to that one, do it quick. www-extremeownership.com. And if it sells out before you get a seat, come to San Diego, September 14th and 15th. Muster 004 at the Omni Hotel, right in downtown San Diego. And in the meantime...

• 2:38:33Jocko Willink?

  If you are looking to connect with us, you can find us straight up cruising hard.

• 2:38:39Speaker 01

  Extra hard.

• 2:38:40Jocko Willink?

  Extra hard on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram, and on the Facebook. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. And thanks to everyone for listening, for joining us, for supporting us, for subscribing and for spreading the word and to the military personnel out there going into harms way.

• 2:39:08Jocko Willink?

  Modern day Samurai warriors protecting our modern day kingdom. Thank you and the police, law enforcement, firefighters, EMTs, first responders. Thanks for being there when we call you.

• 2:39:25Jocko Willink?

  And to the rest of you out there doing what you do, but instead of just doing it.

• 2:39:32Jocko Willink?

  Doing it like Musashi, like a warrior. Excelling in anything and everything you do.

• 2:39:45Jocko Willink?

  Out there.

• 2:39:47Jocko Willink?

  Getting after it.

• 2:39:50Jocko Willink?

  So until next time, this is Echo and Jocko.

• 2:39:56Jocko Willink?

  Out.