72: Losing a Son To War, True Honor and Leadership That Applies to Real Life, w/ Col. Tom Manion

0:00:00 - Opening 0:09:04 - Col. Tom Manion. 0:09:46 - About Travis Manion. Early Years/Naval Academy/etc. 0:32:04 - Travis After Graduation and Military Service. 0:45:36 - Fallujah. 1:25:01 - Travis's Final Fire Fight. 1:52:54 - Aftermath and Brendan Looney's Journey. 2:09:11 - Brendan's Last Operation. 2:12:02 - Aftermath. What We Can Learn. What We Can Do. TravisManion.org http://www.travismanion.org 2:23:52 - Support, Cool Onnit http://www.onnit.com/jocko, Amazon https://www.amazon.com/?&tag=jocko20-20&camp=216797&creative=498533&linkCode=ur1&adid=1DKYGWXQBV0KNEZ3MZZX&, JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, with Jocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, (Jocko's Kids' Book) Way of the Warrior Kid http://amzn.to/2n9k6I9, and The Muster002 http://www.extremeownership.com , The Travis Manion Foundation http://www.travismanion.org 2:39:33 - Final Thoughts. A letter about Travis. 2:49:23 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 72 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo. Good evening.

• 0:15Jocko Willink?

  Sir casualties are inbound. One of the mitts has been hit hard and we have casualties headed to Fallujah Surgical.

• 0:25Jocko Willink?

  My head snapped up from my work. I quickly strapped on my nine millimeter and headed off to Fallujah Surgical. The level two trauma and surgical facility on Camp Fallujah servicing the casualties and medical needs of the eastern portion of Al Anbar province in Iraq.

• 0:43Jocko Willink?

  I had made a habit of going to the operating rooms to see and encourage the wounded whenever I was in the command post of two expedition, two marine expeditionary force MEF forward at Fallujah.

• 0:56Jocko Willink?

  My aide Ben and I made our way through the maze of buildings and walls of the camp. Something told me to hurry.

• 1:05Jocko Willink?

  I quickened my pace, then began to run. I hadn't done this before and I'm sure my aide was wondering what was up.

• 1:15Jocko Willink?

  As we rounded the corner of the hospital, I could see the up armored Humvees of the mitt team and the Marines themselves standing near the entrance. They had their hands on their hips and their heads were down.

• 1:30Jocko Willink?

  This is bad, I thought. One of the Marines was lifting a set of body armor from the floor of a Humvee and it was covered with and dripping blood.

• 1:42Jocko Willink?

  I quickly cleared my weapon at the clearing barrel barrel and stepped into the facility. The medical personnel had become accustomed to my presence on these occasions and quickly briefed me on the situation. Several wounded, one very seriously and the survivors were down the corridor in an office.

• 2:02Jocko Willink?

  I hustled down to the office and quickly got a situation report from the team leader and others of whom was wounded and awaiting treatment.

• 2:12Jocko Willink?

  It had been a bad ambush and the Marines had fought for their lives alongside the Iraqi troops they were advising. Then, looking up at me with an anguish you can only find in combat, the team leader said to me in a hushed tone, "We think Travis is dead."

• 2:35Jocko Willink?

  I didn't immediately connect the name, but I knew I needed to get down the corridor right away to the ORs where the incredible surgical teams were working frantically on the wounded.

• 2:48Jocko Willink?

  As I stepped into the first OR, the surgical team was just finishing their work.

• 2:55Jocko Willink?

  One of the nurses was crying openly.

• 2:59Jocko Willink?

  They'd been unable to save this Marine and he had just died seconds before I stepped into the OR.

• 3:07Jocko Willink?

  As I walked to the end of the gurney, I was stunned to see Travis Manion, the wonderful youngster I'd known as one of my midshipmen's while I was commandant at the Naval Academy.

• 3:20Jocko Willink?

  I had known his family, his dad, Tom, a Marine Colonel himself, and his mom, Janet, a stalwart of the family.

• 3:30Jocko Willink?

  Travis had selected the Corps from Annapolis, and though I had not seen him during this first, this tour in Fallujah, I'd heard repeatedly of his courage and bravery as an advisor.

• 3:43Jocko Willink?

  One by one, the doctors and nurses left the OR, leaving me alone with Travis.

• 3:50Jocko Willink?

  I don't think I had ever prayed so hard for anyone or anything in my life as I did while alone with him in that empty OR.

• 4:00Jocko Willink?

  His loss was very personal to me.

• 4:07Jocko Willink?

  Three years later, while I was deputy commander at CENTCOM and headed ultimately to command the US forces in Afghanistan, I learned of an incident the previous night that had taken the lives of some of our magnificent special operators, SEALs from SEAL Team Three.

• 4:29Jocko Willink?

  They had been operating in the Zabul province, south of the Hindu Kush in Afghanistan, and had generally made the lives of the Taliban miserable the entire time they had served there.

• 4:42Jocko Willink?

  One of the finest young leaders in this SEAL team, Brendan Looney, looked and lived every aspect of the ethos of being a SEAL, this now legendary strata of American special ops community.

• 4:59Jocko Willink?

  That night, we lost Brendan Looney.

• 5:03Jocko Willink?

  As with Travis, Brendan's death was not simply a loss to their respective units and missions.

• 5:11Jocko Willink?

  Losing them was a terrible blow to America, which would now never benefit from the extraordinary qualities of these two men.

• 5:23Jocko Willink?

  The irony of their relationship and their seemingly unrelated deaths was nearly as tragic.

• 5:31Jocko Willink?

  They'd be band roommates at the United States Naval Academy, growing up together at this most hollowed institution of our naval service. They had faced the challenges of Navy and had emerged committed in ways few can understand without experiencing the powerful formative forces of Annapolis.

• 5:54Jocko Willink?

  And in their intense sense of duty and their desire to serve, one sought to be a Marine, the other a SEAL.

• 6:04Jocko Willink?

  Remembering the times, it didn't take a fortune teller to guess where this would lead them both. To war in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or both. And to war, it did lead them. Extracting from them, long separations from their families as they grew into the full realization of their roles as combat leaders. But it also extracted from them, their last full measure. Their young lives willingly sacrificed for their country and these causes.

• 6:49Jocko Willink?

  Tom Manion has done us a great service in initiating the effort to tell this story. Yes, it's about war, but it's less a history of two wars than it is about the human experience of war and what this newest generation of American warriors has experienced. It ties together these precious young lives and their growth together as warriors, as leaders, and as brothers. This book celebrates what we hear more and more frequently. That these young Americans, on whose broad, strong shoulders we have fought two wars,

• 7:33Jocko Willink?

  and who have kept the wolf from the door in innumerable other places, are the new greatest generation. With less than 1% of our population in uniform, fewer and fewer Americans bear the brunt of the responsibility for military service, and fewer and fewer understand the sacrifices made by men like Travis and Brendan and their precious troops.

• 8:02Jocko Willink?

  All of us who fought in these wars now pray that in the end, the outcomes will justify the costs to America and its allies. Those of us left behind must ensure these sacrifices were not in vain. And that these lives lost will have meaning and purpose now and in the future. And that is the foreword of a book called Brothers Forever.

• 8:42Jocko Willink?

  And that foreword was written by John Allen, who's a retired four-star Marine Corps general. And the book, which is about Travis Manion and Brendan Looney, is written by retired Marine Corps Colonel Tom Manion, Travis's dad. And we are honored today to have Colonel Manion on the podcast to give us some insight into the lives of these two amazing men.

• 9:22Jocko Willink?

  Colonel Manion, welcome and thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me here, guys. Honored to have you on here. And I guess with a story like this, we might as well go a little bit back to the beginning. And a lot of Travis's life and folks that listen to the podcast, you may remember the name Travis Manion, because when Brian Stan was on, he talked quite a bit about Travis and how much Travis helped Brian try to learn how to wrestle. Try. No offense, Brian, he did his best to teach you, but it was never your best skillset.

• 10:07Jocko Willink?

  But obviously wrestling was a big part of his life and I'm going to go to the book now. And here we go. He attended classes, studied and wrote his papers, but always thought wrestling would best prepare him for being a warrior and leader on the battlefield.

• 10:26Jocko Willink?

  This belief was reinforced by the qualities he saw in Captain Doug Zembe- Zembeck. A two-time All-American wrestler at Navy. Who attended as many practices and meets as he could and frequently sparred with Travis. "Be a battle axe," Zembeck told him. "Hurl yourself into your opponent." I think that's good advice, just generally, in life.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  That's Doug.

• 10:54Jocko Willink?

  Sure. "Be a battle axe." Zembeck, a 1995 Naval Academy graduate, had a big impact on Travis. In the young wrestler's eyes, the gritty, tough, seemingly invincible warrior embodied everything he wanted to become. A skilled Marine officer who used the wrestling mat to develop himself into a leader who commanded respect. Travis was a high school and college wrestling star. After a strong junior year at Navy, which featured several epic matches against nationally-ranked opponents, he was presented the Naval Academy's Weems Award for Dedication and Leadership. As a preseason top 20 wrestler going into his senior season, Travis didn't want to simply win matches and meets.

• 11:39Jocko Willink?

  He wanted to dominate and help lead the midshipmen to a championship. So, we do talk about wrestling a decent amount because we're heavy into grappling. So he was just started wrestling at a kid.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, he started real early. He, um, youth wrestling, up through high school, but, um, like a lot of these guys at Navy, he did a lot of different things. He did, uh, football and, and lacrosse as well, but wrestling was the, the sport that he really gravitated towards.

• 12:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, there's something that makes people grav- gravitate towards wrestling and combat sports in general, especially if you're a guy that's into combat.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:19Jocko Willink?

  You know, there's something that's beautiful about it.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:22Jocko Willink?

  And so he's going now, the Penn State Open, it's like the 2004 tournament, his senior year, he's got a hurt shoulder that he hurt his junior year.

• 12:33Jocko Willink?

  Going back to the book here, the Purdue wrestler slammed his struggling opponent to the ground for a takedown with Travis's injured shoulder thumping squarely on the red and yellow mat. His right arm was already numb and this first blow left Travis with almost no strength to attempt to escape. In a sport built on hand-to-hand combat, one hand is almost always no match for two. The match ended in an 11-0 shutout. And, so that's his senior year.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Tough day, tough year. You know, he had a great junior year and had a shoulder that was giving him problems. And instead of getting a second opinion, he went under the knife and it was a disaster. So, started out a senior year, looking forward to a big year, and could never get the shoulder going again. And, actually won the Penn State Open with that bad shoulder, I don't know how he did it. And, the rest of the year...

• 13:35Jocko Willink?

  Force of will.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Yes. But, yeah, the year just didn't turn out well for him. It's very, very disappointing for him because he had worked so hard towards getting to the Nationals and being an All-American. And he had everything going his way, but, you know, the injury just zapped him.

• 13:54Jocko Willink?

  And, obviously zapped him. And I can't, I never put that much effort into a sport when I was in, when I was in high school. I didn't, I didn't do it. Am I, am I, am I kind of a loser because of that?

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Little bit.

• 14:08Jocko Willink?

  Little bit, little bit. But I never was that, you know, into a sport. And, so, but I saw people that I knew, and you definitely see it in, in, once you get in the teams, you meet guys and they put so much into that sport, then something like that happens, it's crushing. And I think this was a good little pickup that he got.

• 14:27Jocko Willink?

  After a brief moment of silence, the assistant coach gave Travis a reason to perk up, telling the future military officer that though his senior wrestling season was over, it was now time for him to devote all his energy to becoming a Marine.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's Coach Joel Sharratt, he's now the back at Navy, went to Air Force for a couple of years and came back, he's now the head coach down there, but a great coach, great mentor, and by the way, he was a good friend of Doug Zimbeck's too, so it's like, comes full circle. And I want to say that Joel would have been a Warrior and a Marine too, he was a national champ at Iowa, three-time finalist for Dan Gable, if you know anything about wrestling. Yeah, he's the real deal.

• 15:11Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. And it's interesting, because in the book here, you know, you kind of start off with that story, and you can see some definite strength of character from Travis, and then you take a little back step, and you talk about, early in his academy career, he doesn't want to do it. And it's, he decides, "I don't want to stay at the academy, I want to go to a regular college, I'm out." And he leaves. And I thought, one of the best things about this was, you know, when you talk to him about it, and I'll go to the book here, you know, Travis comes to you and says, "Hey, I'm leaving the academy." And, like I said in the beginning, you're a Marine, I can't imagine you could have

• 15:55Jocko Willink?

  been any prouder than having your son go to the Naval Academy, and then the disappointment you must have had when you said, "Oh, you don't want to go there anymore." But, this is what you said to him, going back to the book, "Look, this is your call and your decision," Tom told his son, who he always believed could excel at the Naval Academy and beyond, "but I think you're making a big mistake."

• 16:21Jocko Willink?

  How did you know that the, one of the bad things you could have done was like force him to stay there? Which you must have decided in your head like, okay, I, if I force him to stay here, he's gonna hate it. And he'll be miserable and, and he won't put any effort into it. I mean, we, we, I get asked all the time, well, what do you do with your kids? How much do you pressure them? How did you come to that conclusion that that was the right move?

• 16:44Speaker 01

  It's sort of how I always worked with him, you know, I'm trying to treat him, you know, as a man. And let him make his own decisions, give him advice, coach him, but at the end of the day, he's gonna have to make those decisions. And, you know, this was no different, you know, I, I was extremely disappointed. But, um, you know, he, I had a buddy there that was a battalion officer at the Naval Academy. And he gave him a hard time about leaving and.

• 17:15Jocko Willink?

  Was that a Major Gardner?

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, Lieutenant Colonel Gardner and Corky gave him a hard time and said, Tom, I'm not letting him leave. Let him go home for the holidays, he'll change his mind. And sure enough, he came home and said, no, I'm, I'm going, I'm leaving. And I still remember Corky called me up and he said, you know, Tom, if, if he ever, he did great here, if he ever wants to come back. You know, he, they'll probably consider it. I said, Corky, there's, there's no way he's coming back. He's, he's done. And, uh, and sure enough, you know, I mean, he came back to me later on that, uh, that following spring, late spring.

• 17:53Jocko Willink?

  So he goes to some other college.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:55Jocko Willink?

  Drexel for.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Got a call from the wrestling coach, come on down, because I was giving him so much trouble at home. Coach said, oh, you got a scholarship, come on down. So he left as soon as he could get out of the house. And, uh.

• 18:08Jocko Willink?

  So you let him make his own decision, you just made him pay for it on a daily basis?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  He did pay for it, absolutely.

• 18:15Jocko Willink?

  So that's, when, when I, I didn't know that and I could not believe that they let him back in. I mean, that's awesome.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very, very unusual and.

• 18:26Jocko Willink?

  If you're out there and you're at the Naval Academy right now, and I know, I know we got quite a, quite a few listeners at the, at the Naval Academy and at the, and at West Point as well. Don't think you're gonna get that kinda treatment. You need to just stay there. Trust me, it's gonna be worth it. You ain't gonna be followed Travis man, you know on this one.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  No.

• 18:42Jocko Willink?

  He pulled off a miracle on that one.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  It really was.

• 18:45Jocko Willink?

  That's unbelievable. And he gets back in, I mean, I guess with his wrestling skills, cuz he did well.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Did well academically, did well on the wrestling team as a freshman. But you know, beyond anything else, when he quit, it's interesting because you know, he quit and he left and it made him really realize what he was missing.

• 19:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  And when he went back in to talk to people about going back, he had the passion. He knew exactly what he wanted to do. And they could see it in him.

• 19:14Jocko Willink?

  You know, I, I would have conversations with guys that were kinda thinking about their, their Navy career. And there's a big, there's a, there's a transition that happens mentally with people. And that is if they feel trapped, they wanna escape. The minute that they don't feel trapped anymore, then they're like, oh, I wanna go back in that cage.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:30Jocko Willink?

  So you gotta, if you can get them mentally out of the cage, which is probably what, uh, what Lieutenant Colonel Gardner was trying to do. Go home for the weekend, let, see what it's like outside the cage, then you're gonna wanna come back into the cage. It didn't work that time. But I'm always, I was always-

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Longer time outside the cage.

• 19:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. So when guys would come to me and they'd say, you know, I'm thinking about getting out. I'd say, I'd say, I wouldn't go, no, don't get out. Cuz then that's, that's tightening the cage on them. I'd say, yeah, man, start looking at what you can do on the outside. You know, why don't you go get a job? There's some good jobs, you know. They got some good jobs you can get, you know, you can be an executive. There's, you know, you could, there's probably a good cubicle that would have a nice computer at it for you and everything. But I would not even be sarcastic about it. I'd just try and make them start thinking about what regular, I mean, even when you're in the SEAL teams, it's a ridiculously good life. I mean, it's, it's a ridiculously good life. So the minute you start looking at normal jobs in the world, you, you wanna get back in the cage. So, now, he comes back and he ends up with a new roommate.

• 20:26Jocko Willink?

  New roommate at the Naval Academy named Brendan Looney. And I'm going to the book here. Brendan and Travis, who carried the burden of being Division One athletes, along with their academic and drilling responsibility, rarely if ever complained. Just after the start of the 2001 fall semester, Travis and Brendan met up for an early morning run. The wrestler and football player both had practice later on that afternoon. But as two varsity athletes who wanted to be the best, they were determined to work harder than everyone else. After talking about the start of the NFL season, their mid-jog conversations shifted to their backgrounds. They had a lot in common, including their love of sports and their

• 21:07Jocko Willink?

  love of country. Both midshipmen had been raised Catholic in tight-knit families, although Brendan's was a little larger. Brendan had four, a total of five, I think, total of five siblings. And so now we're introducing Brendan Ludi into the story here. And I actually knew Brendan slightly because when he was a SEAL, he went through the training that I ran out here on the west coast for the west coast SEAL teams. And just a stud.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 21:39Jocko Willink?

  You know, that's, you just stud. And the one thing, one of the things I remember about him was I was not, you know, the most caring and affectionate instructor as a, when I was running that training. And, you know, and guys would get a little, you know, kind of freaked out sometimes when I'd be talking to them about the decisions that they were making during the training. And, and he would usually just be smiling at me like, yeah, hey, sir, got it. Makes sense, sir. You know, with a smile on his face. Just a stud. Just a straight up stud. And so these guys are now fall 2001, and we know what's coming

• 22:23Jocko Willink?

  next. September 11th comes and, you know, our country's under attack. Going to the book here. And the entire Naval Academy student body realized that after graduation, they would become part of a fighting force that was now at war. And, you know, that's the whole military instantly thought that, you know, we were all thinking, oh, here we go.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had, in 2004, it started to come home to us at Navy. You know, we had JP Blacksmith, who lost in the Battle of Fallujah. Ronnie Winchester was lost over there around the same time. Both football players, you know, and now Travis's senior year, football team's coming out with the flag and they got Ronnie and JP's jerseys draped over the bench, you know, and it was coming home for all of us. And you had guys like Doug Zimbeck coming back from the Battle of Fallujah and talking about what that was all about. Being in the wrestling room, wrestling with Travis, you know, was was all over at Navy.

• 23:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's a total game changer. And it was it was definitely like that in the SEAL teams, too. You know, we went from, what was it, years and years since Vietnam, because we had some little, you know, there was Panama, there was Grenada, there was Somalia, there were some things that happened, but those were little flashes of combat action and all of a sudden, we were facing what's now turned out to be, you know, a decade and a half or more worth of war.

• 23:59Jocko Willink?

  Unbelievable. These guys, you know, as you said, their their intensity is just, you know, they they might have been intense before, but now their intensity is going to be through the roof.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:11Jocko Willink?

  They know what's coming. In May of 2004, Brendan and Travis graduated with their Naval Academy classmates and were commissioned as US military officers. Brendan would go to serve in the Naval Intelligence Community while Travis would head to the Basic School for Marine Corps Officers in Quantico, Virginia. So Brendan didn't get picked up for the SEAL teams right out of right out of the academy, which is fairly normal. It's a they only have a very small number of openings for guys from the Naval Academy. And you can imagine how competitive it is to have a guy like Brendan not get picked up. It's crazy.

• 24:51Jocko Willink?

  And so he goes out to go to go into the intel community and then Travis heads down to Heads down to Quantico for the little bit of the basic school. And, and actually, this was interesting and I, I, I wasn't aware of this, but the lacrosse championships, do those happen after they graduate their seat, after they get commissioned? It, the way it read in here, it was like it happened after they got commissioned.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Well, it was, it was actually, it was, the championship was after graduation. That weekend, same, same weekend, it was more of a weekend, yeah.

• 25:25Jocko Willink?

  So, and, and Brendan, at some point, the Naval Academy started playing lacrosse.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, Brendan was a football player, he went there, was recruited for football. And, um, played football for a couple of years, dressed and played. And decided that he wanted to go out for lacrosse. Um, his, both of his brothers were playing lacrosse and he went out there and just picked up a stick. As you said earlier, just such a natural athlete, so gifted. Big, strong, and, uh, you know, picked up a stick and by the time he was a senior in that, that championship game, if you ask anyone who was the heart and soul of that team, it was number 40, Brendan Looney. I mean, he, he led them all the way to the championship. He and his two brothers were the, the heart and soul of the team.

• 26:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, unbelievable. And so they get to the championship game, I'm going back to the book, against Syracuse. Though Navy followed with a goal, Syracuse won its third championship in five years and eighth overall title. Brendan was absolutely crushed by the 14 to 13 defeat. This was supposed to be Navy's day. It would take some time for the loss to sink in, but Brendan, who had just played his final collegiate game and everyone associated with the Navy program knew deep down that the team's improbable final four run had been a truly amazing feat. "I don't think I've ever felt this low, man." Brendan grumbled. "We should have won that game."

• 26:53Jocko Willink?

  "I know," Travis replied, "but don't do what I did to myself in wrestling." "What do you mean?" Brendan asked. "When I lost that match in Texas, I thought my whole life was over." "I hadn't been that miserable since I quit the academy." "But there are bigger things out there. Think of what we're probably going to be doing a year or two from now." So same thing, you know, a little bit of glory getting crushed.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:22Jocko Willink?

  Little glory getting crushed at the end there. And, you know, Travis saying, look, man, and this is true, and I say this all the time. You know, sports with a ball and the referee and all that stuff. It's a game, you know, and these guys are about to go into something that's no longer a game. And that's what Travis recognized and helped Brendan see that.

• 27:45Jocko Willink?

  Going back to the book, now that he was a young second lieutenant training at the basic school in Quantico, Virginia, was difficult for Travis to imagine that the months after graduation could be even more challenging. But in fall of 2004, the harsh reality of war became more personal for Travis, Brendan, and their fellow Naval Academy graduates.

• 28:07Jocko Willink?

  On September 2nd, 2004, Marine First Lieutenant Ronald Winchester, a driven, popular, former Navy football player, became the first combat death in the Naval Academy's 2001 class when he was killed in a roadside bomb attack in Iraq's Al-Anbar province. Less than 48 hours later, Travis and his fellow Navy wrestling alums were hit by another freight train. Upon learning that Marine Second Lieutenant Brett Harmon, a friend and teammate who had graduated in 2003, was murdered during a melee at a North Carolina State University football tailgate. And that's a story that, that's a story that, that Brian Stan told as well.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  What a tragedy that was. I mean, you know, he was stepping in to help out, and the guy came back and killed him and his friend was, hit everyone hard. Brett was a really popular guy.

• 29:05Jocko Willink?

  And so Coach Sharot.

• 29:08Jocko Willink?

  He, and again, this is something that Brian Stan talked about, you know, when they were heading to the funeral. And here we go. Let's do an exercise. This is, this is Coach Girard talking. Let's do an exercise. I'd like you to both close your eyes and picture that you're leaving a building. A friend picks you up and takes you to a place where people are somber, crying, and there seems to be an audience. Then you realize you're at your own funeral. Write down a few words about what you'd want a family member or person of faith to say when reflecting on the lives of Travis Manion or Brian Stan. Stan nodded, and after a few minutes of pondering what to write, started drawing down a sentence

• 29:51Jocko Willink?

  about one day being remembered as a good husband, a loving father, and a US Marine. Travis went through several pieces of paper before settling on one sentence. Travis Manion was a man unafraid to stand for what was right.

• 30:19Jocko Willink?

  And as I mentioned earlier, Travis started helping out Brian with his wrestling. And eventually, as Brian started fighting, because Brian's a maniac, started doing MMA matches, and he needed a corner man, so he needed to have the wrestling corner man. And so, again, this is something that we covered with Brian Stan, but for, if you didn't hear it that first time, there, you know, you got, Brian's about to fight. He's literally, you know, whatever, 20 minutes, half an hour from getting in the cage and fighting somebody. And Travis gets a phone call, and Brian can tell something's going on. And Brian's saying, hey, tell me what's going on. Travis says, I'll tell you later.

• 31:06Jocko Willink?

  Brian Stan says, "You tell me now." Travis looks away after the fight. "No, give it to me straight." Brian demanded, "What's going on?"

• 31:18Jocko Willink?

  And then Travis tells him JP Blacksmith was killed in Fallujah last night. So again, your point is that...

• 31:28Jocko Willink?

  These are people you know.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  Real close to home.

• 31:31Jocko Willink?

  And... And it was tough for, for Brian. It's tough for anyone that's sitting on the sidelines, which is what you feel like. You feel like you can't, you, you want to help and you can't do anything. You're ba-, you're literally thousands of miles away. And that's what these guys are, are feeling.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of, a lot of frustration there, but I think also at the same time it, it built a lot of resolve with those guys. I mean, they were determined to make sure that they honored them in their service and worked hard to, to do all they could do to make a difference.

• 32:08Jocko Willink?

  Now, there was a, a story told in here that I, I definitely wanted to go over because

• 32:18Jocko Willink?

  it revealed a little bit, um, a, about Travis to me. That was a little hard to pick up a little earlier, and that was obviously that he was funny as hell and didn't mind taking some risks. So, these guys are in a training situation and, you know, Travis was on the radio and he's giving commands and he's giving orders and they're being listened to by some higher up training officer that's kind of monitoring what they're doing. And so Travis is going back and forth on the radio with his guys. They're doing some training and then as Travis pressed the button to, on his radio to relay the final order, a loud, familiar voice suddenly overtook the frequency.

• 33:01Jocko Willink?

  "Lieutenant, this is Coyote Six," the voice said, "I'm not really sure what you're trying to do out here, but you're not following proper radio procedure." "Sir?" Travis asked puzzled, puzzled. "You need to figure out what you're trying to do because I sure as hell can't tell by listening to your orders over this radio." The rising voice said, "Do things right or do us all a favor and just go home."

• 33:27Jocko Willink?

  So, okay, Travis thinks about that and he just keys his radio and says, "Yes, sir." So, they're continuing, they're doing a little bit more. Travis is continuing to direct his troops in this training operation.

• 33:43Jocko Willink?

  And

• 33:45Jocko Willink?

  finally, the voice comes on again. "Lieutenant Manion, this is Coyote Six." He said, as dozens of eyes rolled, "I have a, I have to ask you a question, son. Do you have any idea what the hell you're doing out there?"

• 34:00Jocko Willink?

  Radio was dead silent for almost thirty uncomfortable seconds as everyone waited for the young second lieutenant's response. "No, sir," Travis had, Travis said. "But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night." Now, for those of you that aren't in the military, when you key up on the radio, it's not like I'm just cracking a joke to my boss, just me and him. No, there's like dozens and dozens, if not, you know, forty, fifty, maybe even a hundred people that just heard you say that. So, that was a ballsy comment, funny, risky, but kinda showed, and it's classic. It's great because that tells the guys, "Hey, look, we're gonna get through this.

• 34:44Jocko Willink?

  We're gonna, we're gonna push on, we're gonna make this happen." So, I thought that was...

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, guys from First Recon shared that story when they came, came to our place and it was typical Travis, you know, and he said he just like, everything got silent. The Coyotes shut up and they said when they got back to the headquarters, they all wanted to meet this new lieutenant.

• 35:04Jocko Willink?

  You didn't catch any help from Coyote Six on that?

• 35:07Speaker 01

  Coyote Six got quiet. That was it, yeah.

• 35:09Jocko Willink?

  Dang, he got punked so hard, he just, he just shut down.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  He probably couldn't help but understand that, yeah, that was, that was brazen, but that was a good joke.

• 35:18Jocko Willink?

  You know what, you know what, too? I bet if he's a good guy and he's putting pressure on his troops, he might've just, he might've just sat back from his radio and just thought to himself, "Respect." I respect that. We gotta respect what was coming out from the Holiday Inn Express.

• 35:33Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. So now we fast forward, we get to Travis's first deployment and he's in Alambar Province and with First Recon Battalion. And here we go. As the First Reconnaissance Battalion's Maintenance Management Officer at Camp Fallujah, his responsibilities, which were focused on making sure vehicles were correctly allocated, fueled and repaired, were undoubtedly important. But sitting on the sidelines while others went outside the wire to fight was definitely not what the Marine had envisioned when he was back training. So he got assigned as a logistics officer.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  He did, yeah. He was, um, he actually had intel officers as first choice because they have the sniper squads and he had infantry for a while and then he said, you know what? I think I'd like to work with the sniper. So he switched it. And he always thought, since he switched it at the end, that's how he ended up being a logistician. So, so he always, um, you know, was kicking himself for that. But, you know, when he went out there, started to work in logistics, realized how important it was, the mission, I think he was still a little frustrated, for sure. But, um, he started really integrate with First Recon and actually Colonel Higgins,

• 36:49Speaker 01

  the CO, said, look, when you come back from this second tour, we're going to give you a recon platoon. So he was pretty, you know, jazzed up about that and looking forward to, to getting a recon platoon. And, uh, you know, it was part of why, when he was over there as a mid-team member, he was doing logistics as an advisor, but also, he was also taking the, the platoons out on patrols. Probably more than anyone over there. I mean, he was, that's sort of the way he was. I mean, he was going to get ready. So he was like, okay, another patrol, I'm going. I got it.

• 37:23Jocko Willink?

  It's, uh, I mean, obviously, logistics wins wars.

• 37:29Jocko Willink?

  That being said, I don't think Travis was a logistics kind of guy. And in logistics, they truly do. I mean, if you can't get bullets and beans, you're not going to win the war. That's the way it is. And that's one of the great things about the Marine Corps is the way they do their spread and they put really high quality guys in every aspect of the Marine Corps, including logistics. But yeah, I can imagine he was, he was a pretty frustrated about that.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  A little frustrated and now the Marine Corps gives out an annual award to the Logisticsian of the Year. And it's the Travis Manion Logisticsian of the Year award.

• 38:02Jocko Willink?

  Well, there you go.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:05Jocko Willink?

  He's, that's all, that's awesome. You know, and Sharat, Sharat, is that how you pronounce his name?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  No, Sharrett.

• 38:11Jocko Willink?

  Sharrett, okay, sorry. So Sharrett, I thought this was another awesome piece of advice from, from Sharrett. You know, who, you know, Travis had reached out and said, you know, it's, it's great to be here. I'm doing the best I can, you know, but I'm definitely getting frustrated. I want to get outside the wire. And Sharrett says, learn everything you can, every second you can. Study the tactics, study the people, study the culture and know them. More importantly, know yourself and be vigilant not to let up on yourself preparing for the unexpected. So that's just incredible advice, you know, and, and it doesn't matter what situation you were in.

• 38:53Jocko Willink?

  You try and make yourself better. You know, and actually I worked for, for one of the senior SEAL admirals that when September 11th kicked off, he was in charge of acquisitions at the Pentagon as a, as a captain. And you know, here's everyone going to war and he's, you know, doing acquisitions, which for those of you that aren't in the military, that means it's high level logistics. And, and, and something that he told me that always stuck with me was, you know, he was the same thing as, as Travis, you know, he's frustrated. He'll, here I am in the Pentagon every day. And what he told me was, you know what? I said to myself, Jocko, this is my foxhole I'm going to fight.

• 39:33Jocko Willink?

  You know, so his foxhole is in the Pentagon dealing with paper and that's what, that's what he did. And he knew that he, that was his, that was what he had to do. And now he's going to do it the best of his ability. And, and hearing this from Sharat, Sharat?

• 39:45Speaker 01

  Sharrett.

• 39:45Jocko Willink?

  Sharrett.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, Joel was a great mentor, you know, and he always had solid advice for Travis and the other guys that wrestled at Navy for sure.

• 39:59Jocko Willink?

  All this being said about, you know, logistics being inside the wire. Logistics, when you're running convoys all the time, those logistics guys, Army, Marine Corps, Navy, CBs, we had CBs that ran logistics. You're doing convoys and you're doing convoys down heavily laden IED streets. So there was all kinds of logistics. As a matter of fact, you know, there's a lot of female logisticians that deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. Oh, they're supposed to be in a non-combat role. Well, guess what? They got after it. They had to.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  They're right in the middle of it all.

• 40:29Jocko Willink?

  You're in a convoy.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:31Jocko Willink?

  So speaking of that, back to the book, during one late night evening convoy through Fallujah, the deafening thunder of an IED shattered the relative tranquility of First Reconnaissance Battalion Patrol. The group of Marines had been attacked before, but this is the first time that Travis was with them during a hostile incident. Keeping his composure while following orders of the more experienced officers, Travis, his heart pumping and ears ringing, helped evacuate a Marine who was wounded in the attack.

• 40:59Jocko Willink?

  So, again, might have been in logistics, but you're still, those guys are out there.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  They're right in the middle of it. Yep.

• 41:07Jocko Willink?

  Exactly.

• 41:11Jocko Willink?

  Now, he comes home from that deployment. I'm going back to the book. Iraq changed newly promoted First Lieutenant Travis Manion for the better. As the Marines' mom, dad, sister, and several Naval Academy buddies all noticed, he was still the same Travis, who had willingly traded Doylestown for one of the world's most dangerous places. But after returning to the United States, Travis carried with him an aura of seriousness and quiet self-confidence that was unfamiliar to some of his closest friends and loved ones. When Travis talked about life, he acknowledged its fragility, having felt the pulse of an IED blast and seen dead bodies in the streets.

• 41:53Jocko Willink?

  For a young Marine who had just spent eight months in Fallujah, it was almost impossible not to mature.

• 42:01Jocko Willink?

  No matter what Travis was doing, he was acutely aware that every single day, Americans, Iraqis, and Afghans were fighting and often dying.

• 42:17Jocko Willink?

  I love the fact that that paragraph starts off by saying that that deployment to Iraq changed Travis for the better. Because so often, you know, we hear and civilians get told and the public gets told that war does all these horrible things to people. And, and they fail to realize that in many cases, war makes you a better person.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Well, you could, you could definitely see the difference with Travis. I mean, he, he went over there and eight months later, he was a different guy. I mean, he was so much more focused and mature and, and you know, he had a chance to lead over there in these incredible situations where you have to make quick decisions and, you know, he, uh, he got a lot from it. I could just sort of see it in the time I spent with him. And the other thing about it, I think is like appreciating what you have. I mean, I saw that so much from him, you know, when he was back here, he was just like, wow, this is the greatest place in the world, you know?

• 43:19Jocko Willink?

  There's no, no doubt about that. That's something I think everybody that deploys comes back and you, at a minimum, you're going to appreciate what we have in America. Things like bathrooms.

• 43:32Jocko Willink?

  Cause over there, you're, you're only in porta potties, right? Or you're in the field, but you're in porta potties in the summertime. We used to call them the blue saunas because they're blue colored plastic and then inside it's, you know, it's 120 degrees outside. So inside the blue sauna, it's, you know, 160 degrees. And you don't want to leave the doors open because that's just nasty. So you just leave the blue sauna shut. So when you come home from that, you get to start to appreciate the little things in life. And meanwhile, this time Brendan,

• 44:12Jocko Willink?

  he now has gone to on a deployment to South Korea, working as an intel officer and doing that. And even in doing that, he felt like he had, you know, a lot more to do. And this is when he focused on, you know, he wanted to be a SEAL, but now he's going, yes, I need to be a SEAL. He, he told his girlfriend who he had met while they were going to the Naval Academy, Amy.

• 44:40Jocko Willink?

  Amy, I've gotta do more, Brendan said during a late night phone conversation. Travis is there, my other buddies are there, and I want to be there with them. When Amy reminded him of the dangers his friends like Travis were facing, Brendan was undeterred.

• 44:57Jocko Willink?

  "I should be in the fight," he insisted. Now, there's an issue here. And actually, I was, I talked about this. How surprising it was that Brendan didn't get picked up for the SEALs out of the Naval Academy. And I, and I forgot the reason. But there's a really distinct reason.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Colorblind.

• 45:13Jocko Willink?

  He was colorblind.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:15Jocko Willink?

  He was colorblind, and you can't be colorblind in the SEAL teams, at least you're not.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  He's the first guy to get a waiver for that.

• 45:21Jocko Willink?

  You're not supposed to be colorblind in the SEAL teams. And that's why he didn't get picked up.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  I still remember that call from Travis. He said, "Dad, got great news. Brendan just got selected for the SEALs. Navy SEALs just got one hell of a leader."

• 45:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. That's awesome. And before he got picked up, and this probably helped him. In, in, back to the book, in August 2006, Brendan deployed to Fallujah, where he gathered and analyzed intelligence for combat missions, including operations carried out by SEALs. So, actually, I was in Ramadi at this time, so Ramadi's, I don't know, forty, thirty miles from Fallujah. And he, he was working, he must have been working at our intel shop. And so the intel he was gathering, we would go out and prosecute those targets. And he's working with, working with SEALs, and that, that must have helped them out.

• 46:15Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, meanwhile Travis was making another visit to the East Coast for the christening of his niece Maggie Rose.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Maggie Rose.

• 46:23Jocko Willink?

  So, so he's christening his daughter, and also, he found out now that he's going back to Iraq. And that this is another thing, that he's sharing that news as the, as, as your granddaughter's getting christened. Travis is telling you, "Hey, I'm going back to Iraq." And he's going back with the, with the, what is it? The 3rd Battalion, 2nd Brigade, 1st Iraqi Army Division Military Transition Team, MIT team, I said that in the opening. So, little, little bit about the MIT teams.

• 46:58Jocko Willink?

  I've talked about the various levels of comfort that you have in the military or that we had in Iraq and how, you know, us guys in the SEAL teams, generally, for the most part, high level of comfort, you know, we would get to a place, we would bring, we would build a gym immediately, we would have our CBs construct a gym, if we didn't have one, we would get, you know, we would get video or internet service, we would live pretty good, we'd get food shipped and we would live pretty good. Now, that being said, of course, there were special ops guys that were way out in the middle of nowhere, living on a fob somewhere, and that's living rough. There were some people that were even more comfortable.

• 47:42Jocko Willink?

  There were some headquarters units that had swimming pools. I'm gonna say that again, swimming pools. So there's some headquarters areas, you know, if you got into the green zone in Baghdad, you're, "Yeah, I'm on deployment in Iraq, I'm gonna head out to the swimming pool for a few minutes." You know, there's, there's, there's those kind of living. And then you get, you know, you got, in Ramadi, we had the conventional guys that were living in the combat outpost in the city, real rough living. And then you go one step rougher and where you end up with is MIT teams. And MIT teams, so the, the, it stands for Military Transition Team, and this is when

• 48:23Jocko Willink?

  you are the direct advisor to an Iraqi battalion. And, and in this case, it was the 321, you're gonna hear me say that a bunch, the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Brigade, 1st Iraqi Army Division. So, this is, this is a battalion of Iraqi soldiers, supposed to be 600 or 700, probably a lot less than that, because they were generally highly undermanned. But the MIT teams had a really, really hard job, incredibly hard job. It was, you know, we did advising to the Iraqi soldiers, and we worked with the Iraqi soldiers, side by side, and... These guys did it, not just on the battlefield, but with everything that they did, helping them with their pay,

• 49:06Jocko Willink?

  helping them learn how to, how to do the logistics side that you mentioned Travis was doing. The MIT teams, just nothing but respect for the MIT teams. And on top of that, we go out with the SEAL teams, you know, we had great training and then we had other SEALs with us. MIT team, we'd have, we'd have a minimum usually of like six to eight SEALs with us when we go out. MIT teams, sometimes those guys are going out with one other MIT team guy. Out with forty Iraqi soldiers. Poorly trained, poorly motivated.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they lived right there with them, you know, they were totally embedded with them, so.

• 49:40Jocko Willink?

  Yep, eating the same food.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Tough job.

• 49:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, horrible.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  I remember the, the, the call from Travis when I first heard that and I was just like, wow. You know, much more comfortable as a dad with Travis with two hundred Marines.

• 49:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the comfort levels, the comfort level is incomparable.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:57Jocko Willink?

  Between being with two hundred Marines and being with two hundred Iraqis, it's completely, it's the, the level of risk is so much higher. There was a, when, there was a MIT team that came out in Ramadi and they were turning over to MIT team. The ongoing MIT leader and the outgoing MIT leader were turning over. They got attacked. Both of them got killed. One attack. That's how much risk they're, they're taking with these, these MIT team situations.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Well, the other thing about these guys is, you know, they were, they were going out in, in patrols with them and, you know, if they're going to train them the right way, they were out front. I mean, one of the things with Travis, last time I talked to him, one of the last times at home, I said, Travis, you're an advisor.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Make sure you just tell the Iraqis what needs to be done and step back and let them execute. And he was like, okay dad, I got it. And I knew, I knew exactly, you know, what he was going to do. He was going to lead from the front. And that, that's what he did. You know, that's what all those guys were doing. They were, you're, you're out of patrol, you're right out front with everyone else, you know? When the Navy SEALs, uh, came back, uh, Eric Grayton's was a Navy SEAL with Travis and he said, you know, Travis was always there, every patrol. So.

• 51:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 51:16Jocko Willink?

  So, that's what he gets tasked with. And, and I'll tell you what, if you want to get some, here in a mid-team, you know, like you said, you know, you're going to go out and patrols the Iraqis, you know, you're going to get after it. There's no doubt about it. So, nothing but respect for the guys that we worked with a bunch of mid-teams in Ramadi, just outstanding guys, doing a really, really hard job.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, tough, tough job.

• 51:38Jocko Willink?

  Unrelenting job.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Well, you know, at the end of the day, it was strategically, it was the surge, right? And they put everything behind the mid-teams at that point. You remember in 2006, 2007, before Travis left, he actually had a chance to talk to General Mattis, came and talked to his mid-team about how important that mission was. So, we're putting a lot behind our guys that were embedded with the Iraqis.

• 52:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and again, for those of you that, just to dig into that strategic piece a little bit more, our goal was to turn over Iraqi security to the Iraqis. And, and the only way to do that, and we realized this, and that's one of the things that made people realize the importance of the mid-teams, was you weren't going to do it, you weren't going to educate them on how to do a combat patrol in a classroom. You weren't going to educate them on how to do a combat patrol, even on a training field. You needed to take them out and teach them and, and force them to go out and do these things. Because the Iraqis, if they have the, if they had the opportunity to either stay on base, or go out on a patrol.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  A lot of them would do it, yeah.

• 52:47Jocko Willink?

  Their, their goal is to stay on base, many of them. And so, of course, there were some guys that were more motivated, but a lot of them were just, they just want to survive, right? They just want to survive. So, strategically, that's what we had to do, was we had to take them out and give them on-the-job training, and simultaneously push them to, to go out and try and lower some of the level of violence out in the various cities.

• 53:14Jocko Willink?

  So yeah, at this time also, as you mentioned, Brendan got approved for his, for his lat transfers, called a lat transfer. And so now he knows that he's going to,

• 53:27Jocko Willink?

  he knows that he's going to go to Bud's, go to Bud's and, and be a SEAL, or at least try and be a SEAL, but I bet he was pretty confident.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  I'm certain of that.

• 53:39Jocko Willink?

  One of the first things Travis did here, he's, he's going, he's got a couple more days left. He meets up with Marine Major Steve Cantrell, an assistant Navy wrestling coach, and they go to New York. Travis and Cantrell decide to spend a few days in New York City where Cantrell had arranged a visit to New York Fire Department's Rescue One Headquarters. Located in Hell's Kitchen, Rescue One had become a revered place over the past five years. The small Manhattan building, which was still fully functioning, had been the home base for 11 firefighters, almost half the unit, who were killed in the September 11th, 2001 terrorist attacks.

• 54:21Jocko Willink?

  As they were leaving the firehouse, one firefighter and former Marine thanked Travis for coming out. Lieutenant Manion, "I want you to have these hats and shirts," said the Marine Corps veteran. "No matter how crazy things get over there, you can always put one of these on and remember what you're fighting for."

• 54:43Jocko Willink?

  And he comes home and he's got that, that Rescue One hat with a, with a Rescue One Fire Department, New York logo on the front and 9/11/01 Never Forget on the back.

• 54:58Jocko Willink?

  And he says to you, "Dad, I want you to have this and please wear it while I'm gone. No matter what happens, always remember that this is what we're fighting for."

• 55:08Speaker 01

  I always remember that, that discussion we had, you know, down the hallway. And it so impacted him to be there with those guys. And, and he actually went up there to, to thank them for all they had done. And he said, Dad, they couldn't thank me enough for, for my tour and what I was about to do. And, and he was, you know, he, he got real serious about it. And I always remember that was one of the last conversations I had with him. Interesting side note to that story. So, my wife and I, after we lost Travis, went up to Rescue One, talked to the guys who were up there. And they sort of remember, maybe, you know, somebody coming through and, but it never really clicked for the guys we were

• 55:52Speaker 01

  with. But great guys. And, you know, we ended up leaving and never felt like we had the connection that we expected, because Travis had talked about it so much. And a couple years later, I'd say about, um, two years ago. So, what are we talking about? Like, seven, six, seven years later? Well, the book's out. And there's a New York City firefighter that gives his buddy the book and says, hey, read this book. It mentions Rescue One. So the guy's on the treadmill, he almost falls off the treadmill. He says, that, that was me. He had since been transferred. So, Tim Sullivan calls me up and says, I'm the guy in the book. I want to come have a beer with you.

• 56:33Jocko Willink?

  That's outstanding.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:35Jocko Willink?

  That's outstanding. And that's also the same conversation where you told Travis, you know, hey, you're an advisor. Advise and then let the, let the Iraqis execute, which can be really hard. It's, it's, you know, can be hard because they won't execute. It can be hard because you want to show them how to do it right. And, and oftentimes, if you don't lead from the front, not going to happen.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  It's not going to happen there. No.

• 57:05Jocko Willink?

  Now, your son-in-law Dave and Travis go to a football game. And here we go back to the book as they reach a flight of stairs near the Lincoln Financial Field exit. Dave, with a clear hint of humor, finally conveyed his concerns. He was concerned, you know, he's concerned about him going overseas and he says, "Hey, Trav, if I tripped you right now and you fell down and broke your ankle, do you think they'd let you sit this deployment out?" He asked. Travis chuckled at Dave's joke, but didn't say much in response. A brief moment of slightly awkward silence followed, while drunken Eagles fans shouted and chanted all around them. Suddenly Travis spoke up.

• 57:48Jocko Willink?

  "You know what though, Dave?" Travis said with an unmistakably serious look on his face, "If I don't go, they're gonna send another Marine to my place who doesn't have my training. If not me, then who?" "You know what I mean?" He continued, "It's either me or that other guy who isn't ready. So I'm the one who has to get the job done."

• 58:21Speaker 01

  So think about that because you know, you think back to the, the time with Coach Sharrett and, and Brian Stan and, and they're in the plane. And Travis says, "I want to be known as the guy that always, you know, stepped forward and did what was right. If not me, then who?" Is another way to say it, right?

• 58:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  And it's, you know, it's not, I don't share that because it's unique to Travis. You know, I share that because it's, and, and this whole story is really a representation of so many men and women in uniform. You know, it's their story, but it's a story that can be told about so many. And that if not me, then who? You know, we, we, we use that now at the foundation to sort of drive momentum around, you know, what we all need to be thinking about as Americans, stepping up and doing the right thing.

• 59:11Jocko Willink?

  And I'll, I'll agree with you 100% that there's a lot of people that say things like that, but you know, to have an example that someone that's so clearly lived that is, is awesome to look at.

• 59:27Jocko Willink?

  Now, we're getting ready for deployment. Back to the book, more than a hundred American troops were killed in Iraq in December 2006. Including Major Meghan McClung. The highest ranking female officer to die in Iraq war, in the Iraq war, and the first female naval naval academy graduate to be killed in combat. And

• 59:50Jocko Willink?

  by the way, that she was stationed in Ramadi. I, I knew her and she was killed along with a another army specialist named Vincent Pomonte. They were killed by big IED on Route Sunset, I think it was. And also another guy was with her, a guy named Travis Patrick Quinn, who was just an unbelievable guy. And this was a huge loss to lose, to lose Travis and Meghan in that IED. I knew both of them and it was just, just a huge loss.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  Never, never knew her, but I certainly meant her parents, you know?

• 1:00:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  She's buried down in Arlington, section 60.

• 1:00:40Jocko Willink?

  She was, she was just like really, just a huge smile all the time, a real go getter. Just making things happen. And I didn't, I didn't work with her a lot, you know, I mean, we'd see, I'd see her at brigade meetings because we were both, you know, working with the 111 AD. And, you know, she was just, yeah, I got that. And she was just really positive and, and she was, the thing I remember most about her was just her smiling, you know, she just always had a big smile on her face. And, and Travis, you know, and I'm going to do Travis's story on here someday. You know, Travis was the guy, he made this, this PowerPoint brief for how to win the war in Iraq. And it was stick figures and it explained like, hey, here's you, you're an American. Here's this Iraqi.

• 1:01:24Jocko Willink?

  And you don't know if this Iraqi is good or bad, but you know who does know? These other Iraqis. And it was just all these stick figures and it, it got published, it got circulated. That was Travis. That was Travis Patrick and he spoke Arabic. Just a fantastic guy and I'll definitely cover, there's, there was a book written about him as well. So incredible people.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  On, um.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  On her, at her gravesite in section sixty, it says, "Be bold, be brief, be gone."

• 1:01:53Jocko Willink?

  Well, she wa- she was indeed all those three things.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:58Jocko Willink?

  Going on here.

• 1:02:01Jocko Willink?

  Now, Major Doug Zembeck, the Naval Academy wrestler turned warrior whom Travis admired.

• 1:02:10Jocko Willink?

  He was killed as well.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, um, shortly after we lost Travis. Couple of weeks later, Doug was over there in Baghdad and was killed. Yeah.

• 1:02:24Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  He was, he, I, I don't know if you knew him.

• 1:02:27Jocko Willink?

  I didn't.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was kind of a big personality at the Naval Academy and had the Marines in Fallujah.

• 1:02:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Came back into the-

• 1:02:35Jocko Willink?

  He's like the lion of Fallujah.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Lion of Fallujah, and yeah, yeah, quite, quite a leader. And I, I really didn't know him either. And Travis's junior year, he was back wrestling with Travis at Navy. They were about the same size. Doug was a big guy and, and, uh, he's a guy behind the bench yelling and screaming like crazy as Travis was out there wrestling. Had a really tough match. He ends up winning like one-nothing against this kid from North Carolina. I said, "Travis, who is that guy behind the bench?" He said, "Dad, that's Doug Zembeck. You don't know who Doug Zembeck is?" So, that's when I first met Doug.

• 1:03:10Jocko Willink?

  And so at this point, he hadn't been killed yet. He was, he was, but the, the point that they were making here that I, I, I kind of misworded was that

• 1:03:21Jocko Willink?

  he was a classmate of, uh, of Megan McClung's, apparently. A classmate. And so that was the connection there.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:31Jocko Willink?

  That was a couple, that was what, a couple of weeks, a couple of weeks before, before, uh, Travis arrives that, you know, he's getting this news.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Jocko Willink?

  Now Travis is back in Fallujah, back to the book Travis had seen his share of blood, but never needed to wash any from his hands. That all changed in January, less than a month after he returned to Fallujah for his second deployment.

• 1:03:58Jocko Willink?

  Travis and his fellow MIT members went on combat patrols virtually every day, sometimes running as many as three missions over a punishing 18-hour span. In Fallujah, throughout Iraq, Marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Iraqi troops did everything from hunting insurgents and weapons caches to disposing of dead bodies. Adding to 3-2-1 MIT's challenges were joint patrols with the Iraqis through some of Fallujah's most dangerous sectors. The Iraqi soldiers would sometimes respond to the slightest sign of violence with what some UST members nicknamed "The Iraqi Death Blossom." When a shot was fired in their direction, the Iraqis would sometimes form a circle

• 1:04:39Jocko Willink?

  and fire in every direction with little regard for consequences, including tragically catching innocent civilians in a crossfire. Civilian casualties were sometimes unavoidable reality of war, but Travis and his fellow Marines were determined to use every means at their disposal to prevent them. While some MIT team members understandably became frustrated with the often untrained, underpaid Iraqi soldiers, Travis positioned himself as a mentor. During lunch, he would bring his chow to their mess hall and sit with Nick, an Iraqi translator, who helped bridge the gap between US and Iraqi armies.

• 1:05:21Jocko Willink?

  They not only talked about combat strategy, but also simple things like soccer.

• 1:05:29Jocko Willink?

  So, this is just pure professionalism, that's what that is, pure professionalism.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  I had a chance to go over to Iraq in 2010, and I met with the Iraqis that Travis served with.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  And they said that, you know, Lieutenant Maney would always come over and sit down and eat with us and talk with us and it was part of what you needed to do, right? If you're gonna, if you're gonna be there and be their brother and, and help them with the mission they had, you gotta be part of what they're doing.

• 1:05:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  And he understood that. I mean, it's, um, not like, unlike Brendan would, you know? I mean, you, you, when you're playing athletics, you sort of get that teamwork piece, you know? You know, if you're gonna make it work, you gotta all be together.

• 1:06:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and it's, it's, the, the book makes it sound like it's fairly easy to do that. It's not, man, it's hard. There's a huge cultural difference between Iraqis and Americans. And, and, you know, it, it's not that big of a deal, but I'll tell you what, going, you, you know, you're, you're overseas, the one time you can kind of relax is when you get to sit down and eat your chow and you're in the chow hall and you're actually fairly well protected most of the time. You don't have to worry about anything. You, you clear your weapon before you go in the chow hall. I mean, it's, it's usually a relatively safe place and you get to relax and you get to be around all your American friends and it's good. To, to deny yourself that and now you're going into, cause you know what this time?

• 1:06:55Jocko Willink?

  You don't, you, you can't give full trust to the Iraqis. You're, you're gonna, you know, eating with them, the conversations are stilted. It's just not this little thing. It's a big deal. It's a, it's a, it's a big deal to make that extra effort and, and clearly, you know how many times, you know, I'm, I'm pretty engaged in my job. You know how many times I ate with Iraqis when I was in Iraq on my last deployment?

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:07:22Jocko Willink?

  Maybe twice. Maybe twice.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:27Jocko Willink?

  Maybe twice, you know? Because, you know, when I was in a little bit, I was in a different position, but maybe twice.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know, at the end of the day, they recognize that.

• 1:07:38Jocko Willink?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  When I, when I went over, they talked about that quite a bit with me.

• 1:07:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  And how they've recognized that and how it was important to them.

• 1:07:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  And he knew that.

• 1:07:47Jocko Willink?

  He absolutely did. That's the point is that he, he knew it. He knew that making that sacrifice, building those relationships.

• 1:07:54Jocko Willink?

  That was his primary mission, or at least one of his primary missions was to build relationships with these Iraqi soldiers so that they could get to know them, so they could build trust, and so that they would go out there and do their job. Form, yeah. Professional at all times. And this is another really good example of Travis's leadership. Back to the book. "Just as some US Marines became frustrated by the raw battlefield tactics of the Iraqis, which could put all their lives at risks, some Iraqi soldiers rolled their eyes when Americans gave them orders. Whereas previous Marine lieutenants had barked instructions at the Iraqi army leadership, Travis took a different approach, starting with a knock on the door of the Iraqi lieutenant

• 1:08:39Jocko Willink?

  Jalal. 'Good day, Lieutenant. I was wondering if I could speak with you about the upcoming raid on the high-value target in the industrial sector,' Travis said through the interpreter. 'I was wondering what time you think you would like to execute our mission?' 'I think 5:00 PM would be a good time to leave,' Jalal replied. 'My men had a long day, and I don't want to keep them up too late.' 'Okay,' Travis said, 'but I'm wondering if you might consider leaving a bit later, possibly after sunset. My concern is that our presence during daylight could endanger neighbors who live near the house we're going to strike, not to mention little children who could be playing in the street. 'Respectfully, Lieutenant, I wouldn't want to be the one to tell their parents that their

• 1:09:22Jocko Willink?

  son or daughter might still be alive if we had waited a couple more hours.'" After a pause and a sip of water, the Iraqi officer nodded. The raid would not start until 8:00 PM. So again, real leadership. And I talk about this all the time in here, you know, the real leaders aren't barking orders. The real leaders are the ones that are flanking and using indirect approaches- Sure. -with the people that they're trying to influence. And there's just a phenomenal example of that.

• 1:09:59Jocko Willink?

  Got some email here. Email coming from Travis. Sent it to you, you know, sent it to the family and, and some of his buddies sent it to Brendan as well. Here we go. All. My job is definitely going well. After all the horror stories we hear, we heard about the Iraqi armor, army and their unwillingness to work with the myths. They have been very open and willing to listen to advice. Creating an initial relationship with my counterparts was the right move and it has allowed me to help them start shaping operations. There are many dedicated men in this army and it's been an eye-opening experience so far. The best IAs, that's Iraqi army soldier, the best IAs are definitely

• 1:10:44Jocko Willink?

  dedicated to their cause and have a warrior mentality that rivals some Americans. However, there are still those enemies out there that wish us to fail. There's a lot of work left to do, but the city is definitely at a different place than it was last year. I really feel that is, it is at a critical point where if the present situation continues to progress, it could have huge positive impact in other areas. Also, I found a good balance between my logistics job and my company advisor role. Although going on operations definitely requires a good amount of time, I'm able to work with a battalion logistics officer on a fairly regular basis. I also appreciate all the good food and gear that has been

• 1:11:29Jocko Willink?

  sent. Workouts and your support have definitely helped keep me going. As I said before, we're pretty busy, but I wanted to take a minute to thank you guys for everything and keep you updated. Please continue to write. I enjoy your updates as well. Take care and I'll talk to you soon. Semper Fi. Travis.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was one of his, um, last notes home. But you can see, I mean, he's a glass half full type of guy, you know, we're, we're getting it done, we're working hard. We're going to make a difference, you know, that's sort of how he approached everything. And, and that was. What he was trying to share. Interesting thing also about the logistics role because when I was over there talking to the logistics guy that he worked with, sort of in a kidding way, he said, you know, Lieutenant Manning was a horrible logistics officer and they started laughing. He says, he was never, he was always on patrol.

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  He was never there with us when we had to do logistics stuff, so.

• 1:12:30Jocko Willink?

  That's, I guess that's expected.

• 1:12:37Jocko Willink?

  Now we're going

• 1:12:40Jocko Willink?

  back to the book. The next morning Travis and his teammates awoke around 5:30 a.m. to a huge explosion. A few minutes later, they learned that Observation Post Baghdad, a new makeshift base they had been working to set up in Fallujah, was a pile of rubble.

• 1:12:55Jocko Willink?

  They go to that location with gunfire initially surrounding them before a secure perimeter was established. Travis, Albino, am I saying that right, Albino?

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  Doc Albino, yeah.

• 1:13:04Jocko Willink?

  Albino and others spent the next eight hours entering and re-entering the rubble while their team members controlled the crowd outside. For all they knew, the rest of the bombed out complex could have crumbled, or there could have been other bombs tied, timed to go off when the quick reaction force arrived. They went into the ruins anyway. Carrying a large flashlight, Travis crawled into the rubble. Sweating profusely due to the heat, which is exacerbated by small fires burning throughout the compound, Travis dug through dirt, sand, and remnants of brick, searching for trapped Iraqis.

• 1:13:41Jocko Willink?

  Travis, Albino, and their teammates recovered two injured Iraqis and two dead bodies from the attack site. Their selfless actions had an enduring impact on many of the Iraqis who bore witness. So, you know, this is, even in America, when there's something, when a bomb, when a, when a building is collapsing, they don't, you know, it's really, really risky to go in there. And Travis is like, no, we're going in. There might be survivors. Iraqi civilians, he has no idea, or maybe they were military guys, he has no idea, doesn't know them. He's gonna risk his life just to go and help them.

• 1:14:15Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, less than 24 hours later, Travis's ears were ringing after an IED blew up underneath his vehicle. The blast-jarring, pounding force loudly and abruptly halted his vehicle's patrol through the city's volatile eastern industrial sector. Travis had encountered IEDs during his first deployment and as recently as nine days earlier. After ensuring that fellow Americans and Iraqis were uninjured, Travis looked down at the sandy street where the crude explosive device was buried. "See that wire?" Travis said to another Iraqi lieutenant. "That's a command wire, and it's stretching towards that building." "Gather your men and follow me," he said to the Iraqi before turning to his Marines.

• 1:14:58Jocko Willink?

  "You and the other guys cover us just in case there are snipers." "Lieutenant, why don't we just leave?" The Iraqi said to Travis. "Because they'll keep planting bombs around here and kill more of my men, more of your men, and probably kill some kids," Travis said. "So respectfully, Lieutenant, I'm going over there to find out who's responsible, with or without you." After a brief pause, the Iraqi lieutenant got three of his men and followed Travis as he traced the command wire's origin. Rounding a corner, Travis saw a man in civilian clothes kneeling over what appeared to be a pile of grenades, which, along with the attached wires, appeared to be some sort of booby trap. Without hesitation, Travis squared up to confront the threat.

• 1:15:43Jocko Willink?

  The Marines out on the street heard the pop of Travis's M203 grenade launcher and the subsequent explosion. Several ran toward the sound, while others stayed to keep watch over the exterior. The tall, sweaty insurgent took off running, now being chased by a fearless, determined Marine. Travis had a bad guy in his sights, and he wasn't gonna let him get away. "Stop!" Travis shouted in Arabic while pursuing the suspect. By the time the US and Iraqi reinforcements arrived, Travis was dragging the frightened suspect down off a wall. He had tried to scale in an unsuccessful attempt, unsuccessful attempt to escape. After body slamming him to the ground, Travis put the insurgent's hands behind his back, then made sure he was taken in for questioning.

• 1:16:29Jocko Willink?

  The suspect eventually led the MIT team to a room not far from the booby trap, which contained grenades and many more bomb-making materials. Without losing any lives or ruffling more feathers in the Sunni enclave, Travis had helped remove deadly weapons and another terrorist from Fallujah's streets.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, um, when I heard that story, what he was sharing with me, one of the other parts of it is that when Travis ended up catching this guy, put a, I guess, a good wrestling move on him, put him down to ground, uh, the Iraqis actually wanted to take this guy out, you know, and that he's like, "No, you're not doing that."

• 1:17:11Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:17:12Speaker 01

  "We're taking him back," you know, "and, uh, they figured, 'We'll just take care of this guy right here, right now.'"

• 1:17:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And they just, he just got, Travis got, just got hit with an IED. By the way, it must've gone low order, which means it must not have detonated properly, because if you're in a Humvee and you get hit with a legitimate IED, it hits your vehicle, under your vehicle, y-y-your chance of survival isn't great. And, and so to have this guy actually hit you with an IED that you're lucky enough to survive, and then you catch him, and then, you know, I bet you that, I wonder we could, I wish we could find out if the, if the Iraqis that saw this, if we could find out what wrestling move he used to put this insurgent on his back. I think it's suplex.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, suplex, yeah. He had a good headlock.

• 1:18:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I bet that was not a happy insurgent at that point. But, you know, this also, the, the other thing that was good, good about this is it, it shows you how Travis had to lead from the front, because, like I said, the Iraqis are just content to say, "Hey, let's just go back to base, you know, let's just leave." That's, that's very common for them, and Travis has to lead from the front, has to say, "No, we're gonna stay, you can stay here, but I'm gonna go get these guys," and, you know, kinda shame them and to help them now.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, and he was doing that, but he was also seeing that the result of that was progress, that these guys were starting to take on more and more.

• 1:18:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  And that was important to him.

• 1:18:41Jocko Willink?

  Even just the fact that they followed him, you know, but that's, that's what they're doing, and then what they do is they gain confidence, and they say, "Yeah, you know, we can do this too," and, and that's how you eventually turn over battle space to him.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:54Jocko Willink?

  Going back to the book Half a World Away in California, Brendan was about to embark on his most difficult challenge since 9/11, Bud's training.

• 1:19:06Jocko Willink?

  So, you know, I just wanted to point out that while Travis is now back in Fallujah, Brendan has got his orders and he shows up at Bud's and, you know, he trained super hard to get ready for it. And, and there we go.

• 1:19:22Jocko Willink?

  While helping turn the tide in Fallujah, First Lieutenant Travis Manion wrote a letter to The Intelligencer, one of his hometown newspapers in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. And here's that letter. "There are many views on our mission here. However, all I can say with certainty is that there are thousands of Americans over here working hard towards a positive outcome in Iraq. Every day I'm here, I see great things being accomplished under harsh circumstances from young Americans. I'm truly honored to serve beside these Marines, sailors, soldiers, and airmen. I'm not sure the average American sees the positives these servicemen and women accomplish, or even understands the sacrifices of their efforts.

• 1:20:07Jocko Willink?

  However, whatever course of action our leadership decides upon, there are those in waiting, ready to carry out the mission in support of our country and in defense of its people and their freedoms." Respectfully, Travis Manion, First Lieutenant, United States Marine Corps.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that sums, sums it up totally for him. I mean, you know, you always knew where Travis was coming from.

• 1:20:35Jocko Willink?

  Very straightforward. And, and I mean, obviously I agree with him. That's, that's a lot of people don't understand, and still don't. A lot of people still don't understand the... The positive things that were occurring over in Iraq, the positive things, the, the simple having lunch with them, the simple trying to prevent collateral damage, you know, that's been mentioned several times, you know, the Iraqi soldiers, they get, somebody shoots at them, they shoot in 360 degrees, they don't care where it hits. And they're doing everything they can to train them and, and put some discipline on them so that they don't hurt those civilians. So, and the willingness, you know, you guys tell us what to do, you guys give us, give us the mission and we're standing here and we'll get it accomplished.

• 1:21:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yep. So now they're looking at a, a, a mission in an area of Fallujah, which is called the Pizza Slice, and if you go look at a map of Fallujah, it's really obvious to figure out where the Pizza Slice is. I did, I did, actually did one operation, my first deployment to Iraq in the Pizza Slice. And they're looking at doing an operation there, they got some intelligence that there's a bad guy there that they want to go and get. And we're going back to the book, after discussing the idea with several fellow officers, including Travis, Major Kubicki, did I say that right? Kubicki, yeah. Major Kubicki announced that a team would head into the Pizza Slice to follow up

• 1:22:03Jocko Willink?

  on new intelligence about the sniper's whereabouts. So it's a sniper that they're going after, an enemy sniper. Hopefully, they could find the terrorist sniper who is shooting at US Marines, Iraqi soldiers and civilians. Two American Humvees would accompany two full vehicles of Iraqi Army troops. In one Humvee would be Kubicki, Albino and Kim. They would be joined by the driver, Staff Sergeant Paul Petty, and the turret gunner, Staff Sergeant Josh Wilson.

• 1:22:39Jocko Willink?

  Morang and Sagal, Siegel, Morang and Siegel.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Siegel, Chuck Siegel.

• 1:22:44Jocko Willink?

  Morang and Siegel would ride in the second Humvee. The driver would be Staff Sergeant Chad Marquette, turret gunner Corporal Briner, and Mohammed, an Iraqi interpreter. Travis and Second Lieutenant Scott Alexander, a friend and fellow MIT team member, were supposed to go to a nearby school with Iraqi soldiers and hand out candy, crayons, and coloring books to local kids. Travis was excited about the mission because he cared about the Iraqis and loved to see the smiles on the faces of the kids. So they got two operations that they're about to execute. One of them is to go and hunt down this sniper, and the other one is to go do some, build some, win some hearts and minds, handing out candy to the kids.

• 1:23:30Jocko Willink?

  Now, Kim is one of the other MIT team officers.

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  He's the Ops, oh.

• 1:23:35Jocko Willink?

  The Ops Officer. That's, that's who Kim is. And we're going back to the book. Kim, who had smelled ugliness in the air when he woke up that morning, and had reiterated, reiterated his uneasiness just minutes earlier, told Travis that the smiles of Iraqi schoolchildren would be a welcome sight. Kim was a brave Marine who repeatedly distinguished himself on the battlefield, but on this day, he felt worn down. Fortunately, he and Travis were close enough that he felt confident asking his friend to take his place on Major Kubicki's Pizza Slice Patrol Team.

• 1:24:12Jocko Willink?

  "Is it cool if I head over to the school instead?" Kim asked. "No problem," Travis replied, his eyes lighting up because he knew this meant he could help go find the sniper. "Are you sure?" Kim insisted. "Go ahead with Scott to the school," Travis said. "We're all good." "Thanks, Travis," Kim said. "I'll see you in a bit." "See you back here," Travis said with a nod.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, um, never knew that story. And we're writing the book, started to talk to Chris about that day. And, you know, he said, "Hey, I've, I've got something I want to share that I never has shared before." And he mentioned that, you know, it was supposed to be me on that patrol. Imagine what it would take for him to sort of come forward with that story, but he and, and Travis and Scott were really close. And I know it had to be bothering him for a while and he, he shared that, so.

• 1:25:08Jocko Willink?

  So they roll into the pizza slice, which again, this is it, just to picture in your mind what it looks like, it's you kind of your stereotypical combat Iraq city, small narrow streets, you know, trash in the streets, buildings really close together, threats everywhere, dirty, rundown, wires everywhere, it's just a, it's kind of your stereotypical Iraqi combat city. That's exactly what it, what it is in the pizza slice in Fallujah. They're in their perimeter and boom, here we go to the book. The enemy sniper pulled

• 1:25:50Jocko Willink?

  the trigger blasting what felt like a metal pipe through Albino's lower left abdomen. The bullet, which ricocheted off the corpsman's radio, then tore through his left lung. Albino fell to his knees, dropping his weapon and landing flat on his face in the sored trash-filled streets. Motherfucker yelled Petty, who had gotten a thumbs up from the Doc a split second before. In an instant, Travis and Kubicki started running toward the wounded corpsman. Casualty screamed the court, the turret gunner of the other American Humvee. He was the only one in the vehicle that to see Albino go down. Everyone in the Humvee froze. Iraqi?

• 1:26:31Jocko Willink?

  A stunned meringue yelled out in response. Despite the sudden jolt of adrenaline, their hearts sank when they heard the gunner's response. It's Doc, he yelled, opening fire. Ambush. Travis reacted as soon as the first shot rang out. He took off running toward his wounded comrade as the thunderous sound of American turret gunfire rang out in the once quiet alleyway. Even with the enemy shooting above, from above, Travis didn't care about his own safety. He knew he, this could be his only chance to save Doc.

• 1:27:05Jocko Willink?

  At the other American Humvee, Mereng and Siegel also took off in Albino's direction. Though they were trained to never run towards a sniper's victim, the warrior ethos of never leaving a fallen comrade behind had overridden their sensibilities. Travis, who reached Doc first, grabbed him by the left shoulder and Kubicki, who was running close behind, clutched Albino's right arm a few seconds later. "Come on, Doc!" Travis yelled, as he and the Major pulled Albino closer to the Humvee. Bullets were now raining down from multiple rooftops, which meant that more insurgents had been waiting with the sniper to ambush the American Iraqi and Iraqi troops.

• 1:27:50Jocko Willink?

  The mid-team was encircled by insurgents, and without a fierce counter-attack, the entire patrol was almost certainly doomed. As bedlam ensued, the Marines realized that both Iraqi vehicles in their patrol were gone. After the Iraqi soldiers heard the gunfire, the front vehicle subsequently hit an IED while trying to loop around towards a better fighting position. The Iraqis were stranded, which meant nine Americans and their interpreter were left outnumbered in a confined, chaotic space.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, you know, with Travis that day, you know, he helped pull Doc in. Doc said, when I went to see Doc at the Bethesda Hospital, he said, you know, "I just felt this, this big hand come in and grab me and pull me in." And they were surrounded there and, you know, was, the sniper was there, firing away. I don't know if you're going to share, but Chuck Siegel was also wounded.

• 1:28:59Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  As he came in. Actually got an email from Chuck recently, just to, you know, so many years later, just to sort of talk about that day and what it was all about. But you can imagine that the, the cloud of war...

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  Chaos, confusion. Nobody really knows what's going on. As I talked to the guys that were there that day, nobody was really sure where things were coming from. They just knew they were in big trouble.

• 1:29:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's one of the hardest things about the urban environment. It happens in all environments, but in the urban environment, you hear shots coming and you don't know where they're coming from. It's very difficult to tell because the sound reflects and refracts off the different buildings and, you know, the sniper or the shooters can be one or two rooms deep. You just don't know where the, where the rounds are coming from and it's just very, very confusing.

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  Lot of confusion from, from all the guys I spoke with.

• 1:30:00Jocko Willink?

  Going back to the book here, Travis and Kubicki dragged Albino out of the kill zone and closer to the vehicle's front side where the sniper couldn't deliver a fatal blow to their bleeding, gasping corpsman. As they tended to Albino's wounds, Travis saw Mereng and Siegel running toward him at full speed. Another piercing crack of gunfire abruptly echoed through the alley. In an instant, Siegel was somersaulting in midair, feeling like Mike Tyson had just punched him in the stomach and landing in the middle of the bullet-riddled street. All around, Siegel, who broke his rifle while collapsing the ground, a hectic battle was unfolding in an eerie, slow-motion silence.

• 1:30:45Jocko Willink?

  Siegel's wrist convulsed with tremendous pain. The sniper was firing at the wounded Marine as he lay in the street and the young Lance Corporal, who had just been shot in the wrist and still unbeknownst to him, also in the stomach, would soon be dead if he didn't get in front of that Humvee. As Siegel lay powerless, unable to do anything but wait for the crushing blow of another sniper bullet, Travis pulled him out of the sniper's crosshairs. Moments later, Siegel lay next to Albino, who was still being worked on by Kubicki.

• 1:31:19Jocko Willink?

  So, again, you know, if you've got a sniper scenario and there's a guy down, the last thing you want to do is run over to try and help get him out of that situation.

• 1:31:33Jocko Willink?

  Unless you're Travis, and then that's the first thing you're gonna do.

• 1:31:39Jocko Willink?

  By the time the confused Lance Corporal looked up into the dust, Travis was gone. He'd already run back into a cloud of bullets. Travis dashed across the street, not far from where Siegel had been hit twice and Morang had barely escaped death. Without blinking, he blasted a grenade onto the, one of the rooftops buildings, sending chunks of concrete tumbling to the ground. When Travis switched to M4 rounds, his suppressing fire was equally relentless, which gave Kubicki and Morang enough time to help the wounded. With one rooftop silent, after stunned insurgents had experienced the crushing power of Travis's grenades and countless M4 rounds, the battle's tide began to turn.

• 1:32:21Jocko Willink?

  Siegel and Albino couldn't see Travis firing, but they could hear the welcome sounds of the American counterattack, which only paused when Travis needed to reload.

• 1:32:33Jocko Willink?

  "Go!" Travis screamed to his fellow officers, who moved into new positions so they could join him in the fire, in firing at the enemy. Travis, moving east in the alleyway from the Humvee's passenger side to the driver's side as he blasted away at another rooftop, was now causing the same kind of pandemonium among the enemy that the sniper had initially wrought on the Americans. Just in front of Siegel, the corpsman initially pulled to safety by Travis and Kubicki dragged himself almost completely under the vehicle with only his legs sticking out. Desperately trying to breathe while tasting a mixture of sand and his own blood, Albino was almost certain he was going to die.

• 1:33:12Jocko Willink?

  Amid dizziness, extreme thirst, and the crashing sounds of concrete, the wounded corpsman pictured his mother, whom he didn't want to suffer in the wake of his death. But at the same time, Albino could see Travis's boots, Travis's boots firmly planted in the sand while he fired at enemy positions. The situation was bleak, but maybe there was still a chance to survive.

• 1:33:39Jocko Willink?

  So you got Travis.

• 1:33:42Jocko Willink?

  It's interesting, they use the word counter-attack. And usually when you think of a counter-attack, you think of a platoon, or at least a squad, that's maneuvering to counter-attack an enemy. And in this situation, we got a one-man counter-attack. That's, it's the initiative. It's Travis stepping up, putting down suppressive fire, putting down grenade fire, exposing himself to the enemy to make that happen.

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  Well, trying to build the momentum the other way, because the momentum's coming in so, so much so on the other side, that you gotta sort of get out and get it on them, get, get the rounds on them.

• 1:34:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  To have them, you know, lose that momentum.

• 1:34:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and, and just like any military unit, the insurgents, if they have the upper hand, they're gonna press, but the minute you can press them back and you get the upper hand, the chances are they're gonna, they're gonna retreat, because they don't, they're not holding the ground. They don't care if they lose ground, they'll run away. They wanna live, they're cowards, and so they, they'll, they'll back away, but, you know, if you don't do that, if you don't step up and you don't take the initiative, they will absolutely overrun you. They'll overrun you. And so Travis, one-man counter-attack here, and then, and then he's yelling to his teammates, "Hey, go, help out, let's go, let's make this happen." Back to the book, although the sniper would usually have been long gone by now,

• 1:35:09Jocko Willink?

  the AK-47 fire from other buildings caused so much initial confusion that the MIT team still wasn't sure which building he had fired from.

• 1:35:20Jocko Willink?

  Like a vulture circling his prey, the enemy marksman continued scanning the alley before spotting Travis, who's firing away on another rooftop. So this is a cover and move situation too, where the sniper's taking precision shots, but the guys can't really identify, because they're getting shot at from a bunch of different locations as well.

• 1:35:42Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, across the city, First Lieutenant Kim was handing crayons to smiling Iraqi kids with Second Lieutenant Alexander. Though Kim wondered how Travis and the guys were faring inside the pizza slice, they'd been through so many battles in the last five months without a casualty that the MIT team seemed indestructible. As Kim knelt with a happy child, he suddenly heard unintelligible screaming from the radio inside his vehicle. "Contact!" yelled a voice, possibly Staff Sergeant Perry, the driver of the Humvee Kim was originally supposed to be in. Kim looked straight at Alexander, who had heard the same frantic sounds, and both men motioned to their Iraqi counterparts to sit with the kids while they checked things out.

• 1:36:27Jocko Willink?

  The transmissions were broken, but now, the sound of Petty's voice screaming "Contact" came through crystal clear. Without saying a single word about what to do next, Kim and Alexander jumped into separate vehicles with their respective drivers, told the Iraqis to handle the rest of the school supply drop, and sped toward the pizza slice in its unknown turmoil. As they listened to broken radio transmissions and tried to communicate with Perry, who was frantically trying to contact Camp Fallujah and request a quick reaction force, the Marines silently navigated through the pizza slices, narrow, confusing streets, not completely sure of where their MIT team brothers were pinned down.

• 1:37:09Jocko Willink?

  They knew a battle was raging, but neither Marine had any idea how serious it was, nor did they realize Albino and Siegel had been hit. After looping around the pizza slice, the two vehicles turned right onto Route Elizabeth, near the Blackwater Bridge, heading east, and the seriousness of the situation slapped Kim and Alexander in the face. The normally bustling, packed marketplace was completely empty. If tumbleweeds had blown across the street, this section of Fallujah would have looked exactly like a deserted town in an old western spaghetti. "Jesus Christ," Alexander said. "Where the fuck are they?" Kim yelled in frustration. Suddenly, they heard gunfire. "There," Alexander said, pointing at the besieged alleyway where the two American Humvees

• 1:37:53Jocko Willink?

  were still being riddled by bullets.

• 1:37:58Jocko Willink?

  As both Marines stopped on Route Elizabeth facing east, the Marines jumped out and ran as quickly as they could, ducking rifles, ducking as rifles continued to crack towards their comrades. Kim then confronted an image that would stay with him for the rest of his life. Travis was lying near the back of the driver's side tire of the Humvee he had been riding in, his eyes wide open but glazed over with emptiness. Kim saw no blood, but it was obvious that something horrible had occurred in that wretched, violent alley. For the first time in the entire deployment, sheer panic seized Kim as he ran with Alexander up to Kabiki, who was kneeling by Travis while firing his 9mm handgun at one of the

• 1:38:43Jocko Willink?

  buildings after running out of rifle ammunition. Kim asked, firing his own rifle, "Where do you need us to go?" "Get the wounded," Kabiki said, "get them out of here." "Who else is hit?" Alexander said. "Siegel and Doc." Kabiki said before moving to another position to continue firing. Swinging open the passenger side back door for cover as he fired, Kim saw Siegel, who had avoided being shot again but was still in great pain lying in the backseat. Despite being on his back, he was reaching down to the floor trying to find more ammunition for the turret gunner. His left wrist was bleeding profusely.

• 1:39:25Jocko Willink?

  "The Major ordered us out," Kim said. "Do you need help?" "I can make it," Siegel said. "You gotta get Lieutenant Manion. I think he's dead." "My vehicle is right over there," Kim said, pointing toward Route Elizabeth. "Go." Now that reinforcements had arrived, the sniper was gone and the insurgents were pulling back. Siegel, mustering all his strength, exited the Humvee on the passenger side and hurried to Kim's vehicle where he collapsed in the backseat. He knew he had been shot in the stomach by this point and wasn't sure if he would make it. But even Siegel ran to the intersection. Even as Siegel ran to the intersection, the wounded Marines' thoughts were focused on

• 1:40:09Jocko Willink?

  the unforgettable scene he had just witnessed. Siegel didn't see Travis get shot by the sniper. But after dragging himself to the driver's side of the vehicle, the Lance Corporal was shocked to see the First Lieutenant lying face down and motionless, his arms stretched toward the curb with his feet facing toward the bullet-riddled vehicle. When Siegel pulled himself towards Travis and asked him where he'd been hit, he got no response. He realized Travis was seriously wounded and started feeling underneath his fellow Marine's body armor with his left hand, despite the hole in his own aching wrist. He found a bullet wound on the left side of Travis's rib cage.

• 1:40:54Jocko Willink?

  He whispered in Travis's ear. "Hey Travis," said Siegel, who normally would have addressed him as Lieutenant or "Sir," "I'm here for you." Travis didn't respond. Even without realizing that the sniper's bullet had struck the First Lieutenant from the right side and had exited at the spot he was covering with his left hand, Siegel knew the situation was grave. When Travis began jerking with convulsions. "Is he dead?" Kabiki yelled over to Siegel while continuing to fire at enemy positions. "Not yet, but he will be if we don't do something."

• 1:41:36Jocko Willink?

  the Lance Corporal said, his voice shaking. Siegel turned to Travis, whose eyes were still wide open. "I'm here for you," Siegel, repeated over and over again into his ear. As soon as Kim and Alexander had carried their unresponsive friend into the vehicle, Kabiki ran over and dove into the smoke-filled Humvee where he clutched Travis and began trying to identify his wounds, stopping the bleeding, and perform CPR. He ordered Petty to start driving towards Camp Fallujah while Wilson fired the last rounds from the turret. This was probably Kabiki's last chance to save his fellow Marine.

• 1:42:21Jocko Willink?

  As four vehicles sped toward Camp Fallujah, Father John Gayton, a Marine Corps chaplain from Pennsylvania, sat in his tiny office on the makeshift American base. He was reading emails from home while sipping from a large water bottle to keep hydrated on the steamy Sunday afternoon. A few minutes later, his phone rang. "We got two wounded in action and one possible killed in action arriving at the field hospital," a nurse reported. As the Marines ran over to the wooden complex, he saw a group of Marines. Kim, Alexander, Kabiki, Morang, Petty, Marquette, Wilson, and Briner,

• 1:43:04Jocko Willink?

  huddled like a team on a football field. As he jogged by, one of them turned around and looked at him. Father John saw the redness in the eyes of this Marine, who had obviously been crying. It was clear that something terrible had happened. "Any Marines with typo-positive blood, report immediately to Field Hospital Room 4," a voice said over the loudspeaker. As they tore off... As they tore off his bloody fatigues, before finding the wounds on each side of his rib cage and trying to resuscitate him,

• 1:43:46Jocko Willink?

  crowds began to form in the hallway outside the operating room. Word was quickly spreading. That First Lieutenant Travis Manion, the heart and soul of the MIT team, was badly wounded.

• 1:44:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's, uh... Gave it all, you know? Gave it all that day. Gave it all, every moment he was over there. And working with the Marines, working with the Iraqis and, uh... You know, that, that last event? He ran out of ammo. You know, I was talking to the gunner and, um, started to ask him about what, what he saw. Trying to figure out, you know, the... We've got what was written up in his award and just trying to get some insights. And the gunner said, "You know, Lieutenant was calling for more ammo."

• 1:44:49Speaker 01

  So I'm thinking that Travis I saw when he was over there, he had all sorts of magazines. So I don't know how many rounds, but I'm guessing around maybe 90 to 100 rounds he had on himself. And he'd actually laid down a lot of fire to change the momentum.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  But I, you know, he knew what he was doing. He exposed himself, he had to do that to get out there and lay down the fire. And when I spoke to the gunner, Wilson, he said, you know, we threw out a magazine. I turned around, when I turned back Travis was laying on the ground.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  So maybe he was trying to get that magazine and load it into his weapon. He'd run out all of his ammunition and lay in cover for these guys.

• 1:45:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and like you said, I mean, just somebody had to turn the momentum.

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:44Jocko Willink?

  Otherwise, they were going to get overrun.

• 1:45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he knew that. He knew that. If not me, then who?

• 1:45:51Speaker 01

  You know? He knew what he had to do.

• 1:45:55Speaker 01

  I know that, um, because they had lost, I got a letter from Kibiki shortly afterwards. And he said, you know, we're using Travis's words to go on because he, they had lost some guys. And he had pulled the team in and said, look, we gotta, they'd want us to go on. We gotta keep working, we gotta turn the tide here.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  And so he used that session that Travis had with the team and said, look, you know what Travis would think. You know what we gotta do, we gotta keep fighting on.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  And that's what they did.

• 1:46:37Jocko Willink?

  Father John anointed Travis's feet and said a prayer as the medical staff tried feverishly to revive him.

• 1:46:48Jocko Willink?

  If only the Marine could show the doctors some sign, any sign of life.

• 1:46:57Jocko Willink?

  Soon after, the physician in charge announced the time of death.

• 1:47:04Jocko Willink?

  For the next minute, the only sounds heard in the operating room came from the hallway outside.

• 1:47:11Jocko Willink?

  As doctors and nurses watched in silence, Father John, standing above the fallen US Marine, broke the silence.

• 1:47:21Jocko Willink?

  "God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of your son, you have reconciled the world to yourself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins," he said, looking down at Travis.

• 1:47:38Jocko Willink?

  "Through the ministry of the Church,

• 1:47:42Jocko Willink?

  may God grant you pardon and peace.

• 1:47:49Jocko Willink?

  And I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father,

• 1:47:54Jocko Willink?

  and of the Son,

• 1:47:59Jocko Willink?

  and of the Holy Spirit."

• 1:48:06Jocko Willink?

  One by one, Marines filed past their fallen brother.

• 1:48:12Jocko Willink?

  Kabiki, the senior officer who had desperately administered CPR in the Humvee, was the first to walk by. Morang was next, then Wilson, Marquette, and Briner.

• 1:48:23Jocko Willink?

  When Petty looked at the fallen First Lieutenant's face, he saw an officer who had given everything to the Marine Corps.

• 1:48:35Jocko Willink?

  When Alexander approached the operating table with tears streaming down his face, he put his hand on his friend's head.

• 1:48:44Jocko Willink?

  He didn't know how the mission could carry on without him.

• 1:48:49Jocko Willink?

  Kim approached the table with weak knees and a broken heart.

• 1:48:54Jocko Willink?

  He paused to take one last look at his friend, who had saved his life by volunteering to go on a patrol he knew would be far more dangerous than a school supply drop.

• 1:49:10Jocko Willink?

  Pausing for a moment, Kim pondered the story that was already spreading throughout the hospital complex without thinking twice. Travis had leapt squarely into enemy crosshairs to direct gunfire away from his patrol. On April 29th, 2007, a line of the Iraq War was struck down by a single bullet. Cut through Travis's aorta, causing massive internal bleeding that couldn't be controlled. Though the fallen Marines' loved ones would undoubtedly suffer, everyone else on the

• 1:49:53Jocko Willink?

  Pizza Slice Patrol was still alive. Indeed, by fearlessly protecting his Marines and the Iraqis serving beside them, First Lieutenant Travis Manion had done his part.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, clearly, in writing this, it's sort of, as a father, obviously, really tough to go through and, you know, talk to the guys that were with him and relive that. But the other side of it is, it's a little healing to just sort of know exactly what was going on and what the guys that were there with him felt about his actions that day.

• 1:50:50Speaker 01

  And so, you know, as I went through, I struggled at times, but I realized that, you know, unless we tell these stories, the rest of the country's not going to know what these guys are doing. So, we've got to make sure that we get the word out there, and it was a big part of it, is sitting down and talking through that day. Big part of the struggle for me in putting this book together.

• 1:51:20Jocko Willink?

  And, and, and you just, I mean, it's a, it's a, I would say it's a miracle that everyone else lived, but it's actually just Travis, that everyone lived in a situation like that, surrounded by enemy, a sniper, multiple enemy positions firing on you, you got nine guys and two Humvees, that is not a good situation to be in, and it's gonna take a miracle to get out of it. And the fact that he's the only guy that was killed is incredible, and it's clearly, you know, due to his actions.

• 1:51:52Jocko Willink?

  Clearly. I mean, again, you have, the enemy has elevated positions, too.

• 1:51:58Speaker 01

  Yep, they were on the rooftops, and, yep.

• 1:52:02Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, I mean, it's important, obviously, to tell the story and people to know the sacrifice, and, I mean, a lot of, a lot of people listen to this that are active duty in the military, and that sort of aggressiveness on the battlefield, when things are going bad, is gonna keep people alive. And, obviously, you gotta be a courageous, courageous human being to do that, but the alternative, you know, in this case, would have been incredibly horrible.

• 1:52:35Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 1:52:37Speaker 01

  Several of the guys were there, whether it was the doc, when I went to see him at Bethesda, talked about the impact of what Travis did, or Lieutenant Morang was there, and he sent me a message and said, "Hey, you know, there's no doubt in my mind that Travis saved my life and the life of the entire patrol that day," so. I mean, the guys that were there, were with him, they know what happened.

• 1:53:06Jocko Willink?

  And how much longer after this did you start writing this book?

• 1:53:13Speaker 01

  Wow. About five years afterwards, started to get down to writing it. And I, you know, there's a story behind that too, right? I mean, I, uh, the last time I talked to Travis was a week before we lost him. And it was an unusual call because normally I was with my wife and this time I wasn't. I was by myself and I guess he felt a little bit more open to share with me what was going on. And he was, you could sense that there was a lot happening. And he had a message for me. He kept sharing that, he said, "Dad, it's incredible what I'm seeing over here. It's incredible what these young Marines are doing.

• 1:53:58Speaker 01

  What I'm seeing every day, they're fighting in the streets. They're putting it all on the line and I don't think the rest of the country knows what's going on." And he knew that because he'd go back to Camp Fallujah, turn on the TV and see what we were watching back here. And then he'd be on patrol and just sort of see the incredible things that were going on. And it was a huge disconnect for him.

• 1:54:19Speaker 01

  And he, he got cut off several times in that phone call and he kept calling me back and he'd start all over again. "Dad, you, you, you really, you really gotta get the message back to people. It's incredible what's happening here, you know? The American people don't know the incredible things these guys are doing." And so, I got cut off with him the last time and I always signed off to tell him how much I loved him. And it was the first time that I missed him. I figured, "Okay, I'll, I'll hear from him next weekend." And we got the knock on the door that next weekend that we lost Travis. You know, your worst nightmare, your only son, so proud of him.

• 1:55:04Speaker 01

  I figured, "Okay, most natural thing for us is to roll down the shades, lock the doors and just tell everyone to go away." And it was because that last conversation I had with him. We knew there was going to be media and sure enough, there, there was. I pulled my wife and daughter together. I said, "You know what? When they call us, we're gonna talk." And really, this book is about talking, about sharing the stories. I've been on that mission since the last time I talked to Travis and he gave me that mission to do this. And so, I was pretty certain early on, that I was gonna do something. Initially, I thought, okay, I heard about Travis and his Marines in Fallujah and how they turned the tide.

• 1:55:49Speaker 01

  So maybe that, that would be the story. We could talk about how these brave Marines and worked together with the Iraqis to make that happen. And then, we lost Brendan. You know, and I realized, you know, maybe it's not that story. Maybe it's the bigger story. Of our Navy SEALs and our Marines and everyone that's putting on the uniform and the sacrifices they're making. And so, um, that's why it sort of took me a little while. I mean, we had, we lost Travis in 07, we lost Brendan in 2010. And I had just come back from, from doing some of the stuff over in Iraq, I started to think, well, maybe it's a different story. And, uh...

• 1:56:31Jocko Willink?

  When, you do a really, you know, an amazing job in the book of talking about how you, how your family, how you, you and your family, you know, dealt with the loss and... But, is there anything that you find, I mean, did you find it to be sort of therapeutic? To say, look, we have a new mission now, our mission is to get the word out and tell this story and learn as much as we can about it and, and let other people know what's going on?

• 1:57:02Speaker 01

  I think it was, it definitely helped. You know, to know that we could do something with his loss. You know, get out there and if we could do something to, to bridge the gap between the country and our military and our guys and men and women serving in uniform. You know, it certainly gave us something to get up every morning and...

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  And have a reason, you know, when we start thinking about his message, you know, part of that if not me, then who message that goes back to that last conversation I had with him because when we started telling the stories, my son-in-law shared that story with the newspaper. And all of a sudden that if not me, then who sort of caught on and people started to say, you know what, I like that. It was five, simple, but really, really powerful words. And that's what we use now as our sort of rally cry for our foundation, if not me, then who.

• 1:58:00Jocko Willink?

  You, you went through this, you know, you went through your loss of Travis and

• 1:58:07Jocko Willink?

  did you get closer with, with Brendan after that? Or did it maintain or?

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  Ah, we got a lot closer with Brendan. I mean, absolutely. Brendan was in SEAL training when we lost Travis and I still remember that call with, with my wife.

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  But yeah, he would come and, and visit us and, and still remember when he came back and he came right up to our place and mostly people felt uncomfortable coming to, to visit the parents by themselves. So they'd come in groups, but when Brendan called up shortly after he got back and I said, okay, who are you coming up with Brendan? He says, I'm coming by myself. And we spent the night doing shots of Patron at our bar and talking about stories of he and Travis and their friendship and.

• 1:58:55Jocko Willink?

  Well, another thing was Travis or Brendan had just started BUDS.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:00Jocko Willink?

  And, you know, he was saying, hey, I'm going to come home for the funeral and, and you and your wife said, no, you do what you gotta do. You gotta get through this training. You know, you can come later.

• 1:59:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:10Jocko Willink?

  Which is.

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  Well, we, we knew he was just sort of struggling with the loss in a big, big way and, and he wanted to, to be there. And, you know, he was sharing that with my wife real strong and, you know, he knew what Travis would want him to do is to carry on and.

• 1:59:30Speaker 01

  And so he did that, you know, and he, he sure did that in a, in a big way out there in San Diego.

• 1:59:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and Brendan crushed, crushed BUDS, and you don't throw that around lightly. You don't throw around someone crushing BUDS lightly.

• 1:59:47Jocko Willink?

  And one of the things, one of the quotes that they pull out in here that he applied during BUDS was, one of, one of Brendan's favorite quotes was one he rarely spoke out loud, but always kept in the back of his mind. Be strong, be accountable, never complain.

• 2:00:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's Brendan, absolutely.

• 2:00:08Jocko Willink?

  And that attitude going in, he ended up being the honor man of his BUDS class. And so the honor man is the guy that's basically the best performer in everything. And again, you're going to BUDS, you've got some competitive, high level athletes in there. And to be the honor man,

• 2:00:31Jocko Willink?

  you gotta be a bit of a badass.

• 2:00:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, some of the guys who were there with him share with me that it wasn't even close, even, you know, I mean, like, he was blowing everything away, so. He was, he was possessed, as they, they share with me.

• 2:00:47Jocko Willink?

  That's, uh, that sounds like, that sounds like he was definitely getting after it. And, and, and, you know, I, I won't even say I imagined, I actually know for a fact that losing Travis must have fueled his fire beyond anyone could, he probably had, you're right, there was no, who was gonna compete with that, you know?

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:01:07Jocko Willink?

  He knew he had a job to do, and...

• 2:01:10Speaker 01

  So much so that when, um, when he got done and graduated and, and my wife Janet and I were at the wedding with Amy and Brendan, that he called Janet over and gave Janet his Navy SEAL trident. And, you know, he just did it privately. It was the way Brendan was. Gave it to her and said, you know, I couldn't have gotten this without Travis being there with me every step of the way. And I want you to have this. And I was at the other end of the, the room and I still remember Janet coming up with tears in her eyes and sharing that story with me. I was just sort of the type of guy Brendan was, you know?

• 2:01:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I mean, that was another thing that, that in the book you talk about is he got the Honor Man plaque and, and like, he like mailed it to his parents.

• 2:02:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:02Jocko Willink?

  And his attitude was, hey, this isn't on me, you know, this is on you. Thanks for support over the years.

• 2:02:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:07Jocko Willink?

  And then giving the trident to, to your wife Janet. I mean, just a humble, humble guy.

• 2:02:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:12Jocko Willink?

  That always gave credit to everyone else. And, and your wife gave him the black bracelet that said, First Lieutenant Travis Manion, USMC Spartan Hero Leader. Killed in Iraq. Iraqi Freedom. Twenty-nine April of oh-seven. And then, this had to be hard for you because now you're even closer with Brandon, with, with Brendan, you're even closer with Brendan and he tells you guys at his wedding. So you're there celebrating the wedding and all of a sudden he says, I've got something to tell you. Going to Iraq in forty-eight hours.

• 2:02:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it was, uh...

• 2:02:58Jocko Willink?

  And by the way, he's going to Fallujah. Did he tell you guys he was going to Fallujah?

• 2:03:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, he told us where he was headed. Um, you know, hard to believe, you know, he's there celebrating such a great day and then to find out that his honeymoon's in Fallujah. You know, I think, and you know, you hear about, we hear so much about our guys in uniform and what they're doing, but just sort of think about those types of sacrifices. You know, we don't hear enough of that stuff, you know? What the families are going through and missing those special times, you know, it's, uh...

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  Big, big impact all the way around.

• 2:03:34Jocko Willink?

  Well, I always try and remind people that the heroes that we talk about, they're heroes and they're people. They're people like everyone else with wives and families and they miss their home. They miss their family. They want to be at the dance recital and the basketball game and the wrestling match. They're not just these, you know, foreign objects that just do nothing but fight, man. They're people. And I always try and remind, remind everyone of that. And this is a classic example. Here he is marrying his sweetheart who he'd met at the Naval Academy.

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:11Jocko Willink?

  Spending time with you, spending time with his family and he's leaving for Iraq 48 hours later. Honeymoon in Fallujah.

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Big, big sacrifice for these guys.

• 2:04:22Jocko Willink?

  And he does that deployment to Fallujah and kind of, you know, here's a, here's a letter that he wrote home on that. Mrs. Manion, it was great seeing you guys at the wedding. I'm glad you guys were able to make it. It meant a lot to both me and Amy to see you both there. I'm doing okay over here. Since, since arriving, I've been tasked with reviewing all the evals, it's evaluation and awards for the command, as well as work in the tactical operations center. I'm sure you've heard about the decreased violence out here and provincial Iraqi control taking place in Al-Lanbar to see how much different it is over here since last time. It's a true testament to the work that everyone over here has done.

• 2:05:05Jocko Willink?

  I've not had the opportunity to get out to Combat Outpost Manion on a trip out west to Al-Assad while myself and Rob Sarver, another U.S. Naval Academy, oh four guy who knew Travis, were waiting for our helo to show up. We struck up a conversation with a young Lance Corporal. This young Marine was a MIT team member and had mentioned that he'd just come from COP Manion. When we heard that, I let him know that Travis was a good friend of mine and a college, and a roommate during college. He said that he did not know him, but he'd heard great things about Travis. He also said that there was a room at the COP dedicated to him with pictures. I just thought you would like that story since Travis is still influencing the men

• 2:05:50Jocko Willink?

  and women over here. Love, Brendan.

• 2:05:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, he eventually made it out there. Rob shared with me, but.

• 2:05:57Jocko Willink?

  Oh, he made it out to Copmanion? Was Copmanion in Fallujah?

• 2:06:01Speaker 01

  It was, uh, it was north of Karma.

• 2:06:04Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:06:04Speaker 01

  If you've ever been through Karma.

• 2:06:06Jocko Willink?

  I didn't go through Karma.

• 2:06:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Karma's, when I was over there, they flew me out to Camp Fallujah and then Karma's not too far away from Camp Fallujah. It's a little, little north of Karma. So the Iraqis, um, said they wanted to name the outpost after Travis, which was, you know, again, for their recognition of what he put on the line for them.

• 2:06:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Awesome.

• 2:06:36Jocko Willink?

  So, but you could see even from that note that what Brendan was facing in, in Fallujah at that time, even over what had been a six-month period or, or something, maybe longer than that, but it was completely mellow compared to what Travis was enduring. You know, we were just way ahead at that time.

• 2:06:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, it changed dramatically at that point, for sure.

• 2:06:58Jocko Willink?

  And so Brendan had a fairly mellow deployment, comes home and then goes back on deployment, you know, again, like you just said. New wife? You just went on deployment? Doesn't matter. We're sending you back and on deployment. That's the way it works.

• 2:07:12Speaker 01

  Two, three, four deployments?

• 2:07:14Jocko Willink?

  Yep. Yep. Yeah. So now we're talking, he goes back this time and goes to Afghanistan.

• 2:07:22Jocko Willink?

  You know, just a little bit about, about Brendan's leadership. With the Taliban launching its annual spring offensive, Brendan and his platoon started to see more action in May, just as he had predicted in his email to Tom and Janet. Surrounded by jagged cliffs, extreme poverty and acute desolation, which many of the younger SEALs had never experienced. It was Brendan's responsibility to keep them optimistic, focused and sharp, considering that the SEALs were sleeping on a fob in the middle of nowhere, thousands of miles away from home. Setting a positive tone was never an easy task.

• 2:07:56Jocko Willink?

  Rather than barking out orders to the SEALs under his command, Brendan was loon dog. The enlisted SEALs, as they loved working for the 29-year-old lieutenant. Because even though Brendan was an officer, he still thought of himself as one of the boys. So, you know, you see a very similar type of attitude.

• 2:08:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, his guys, you know, having a chance to talk to them, they, you know, everybody loved Brendan. I mean, he was just a great, great leader, right?

• 2:08:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Like I said, the biggest thing I remember about him, you know, was no matter what I was saying to him, not, not an attitude, but just like a positive attitude, I'll say that.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:37Jocko Willink?

  He's getting towards the end of that deployment, like right towards the end of that deployment. And goes back and forth, emails with Amy on Monday, Amy and Brendan exchanged emails. Six months that Amy dreaded were coming to a close. And finally, they would be living together again as husband and wife. Brendan could barely contain himself during his last reply before his last mission. Can't wait to get home and go on a long overdue vacation with you. I call you when I get back from my op. Love ya, miss ya, me.

• 2:09:19Jocko Willink?

  So they roll out on this operation. Brendan's assignment in support of Operation Sea Serpent, an ongoing joint anti-terror assault, was to watch over the village of Ayatollah in the mountains in southeastern Afghanistan, province of Zabul. As on other tactical overwatch missions, on this one Brendan and his team would serve as guardian angels, much like when Travis held the roof during, after a chlorine attack in Fallujah. No matter what transpired in the darkness below, Brendan and his SEALs equipped with night vision equipment would be watching. Quiet and focused, Lieutenant Brendan Looney flew above the skies of Afghanistan

• 2:10:02Jocko Willink?

  on the 59th combat mission of his fourth overseas deployment. As bright moonlight shined into the chopper through the war zone soaring mountains, the words Spartan, hero, leader reflected from the bracelet Brendan always wore on his right wrist. Moments from landing on top of a mountain, the SEALs and soldiers aboard the chopper unhooked their safety belts and prepared to dismount. Suddenly, a terrible piercing sound stunned everyone aboard the helicopter, which rapidly tumbled down a jagged, steep cliff before plunging into the darkness.

• 2:10:42Jocko Willink?

  The frantic moments that ensued were harrowing, dreadful, and tragic.

• 2:10:50Speaker 01

  So that's Brendan's, just think about it, his 59th combat mission, and he's two weeks from coming home. And the new group comes in and who's the one guy that says, you know what, I'll go with the new guys and show them around. We've been out here the whole time.

• 2:11:10Speaker 01

  I don't want them going out there without anyone. And that's Brendan Looney. You know, and he, he jumps in and helicopter went down and only one survived.

• 2:11:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's a, it's a turnover operation is what we call it. That's when you, you're taking the, the new guys, as you said, I think these guys were from Team Four, taking them out, you know, you're just, you know, one guy that's, hey, we've done this before, we'll just do a turnover, make sure you guys know what's happening and give any advice we can. And like you said, you're, you're ready to go home.

• 2:11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:44Jocko Willink?

  And somebody's got to step up and do that.

• 2:11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:49Jocko Willink?

  And like you said, who's going to do it? Well, Brendan's going to do it.

• 2:11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:56Jocko Willink?

  And, you know, after, after Brendan was killed and you guys, you know, Amy had, had said she wanted Brendan to be buried next to Travis.

• 2:12:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, you, you, you wonder why things happen the way they do, but we never had that talk with Travis, like, what happens if you don't come back? And when we lost him, my wife and I were like, well, we should have him near us here at home. So we buried him close by us and outside of Philadelphia. And then shortly after that, we heard from some family and friends that, hey, they had a serious conversation with Travis and he said he wanted to be in Arlington if anything happened to him. So I called down to Arlington, they said, uh, yeah, we can, we've reinterred, we can do that. Just let us know if you want that to happen and we'll make it happen.

• 2:12:49Speaker 01

  So, um, we never got Travis situated, never had a headstone, had a wooden cross there, and we kept talking about it, you know, and it's almost three years later. And my wife was the one that was most reluctant because she was visiting Travis every day and she just couldn't come to grips with making that decision. And then we get the call, the first person that, that Brendan's mom called was my wife Janet, when she got the news and we were just devastated. And we got down there and Amy came into town, she said, you know, I want, I want Brendan next to Travis in Arlington. Now, she knew she was at Travis's service, she knew Travis wasn't at Arlington, but maybe

• 2:13:34Speaker 01

  she had forgotten in the shock, and I know how that goes, you're just in total shock. And, um, at that point, I could just see it in my, my wife's eyes, she said, this is it, this is, now we need to do this. She was ready to do it. And they moved mountains to make it happen. I mean, they, Department of the Army and Arlington moved, helped us move Travis down there in two weeks. Wow. And, um, and then we laid Brendan that following Monday. We're, we, they originally said, let's do this the same day. And I was like, well, no, this is, this is Brendan's day, we'd just like a quiet ceremony.

• 2:14:14Speaker 01

  So we did it the Friday before and this quiet ceremony, we had, um, we had all the Marines from, um...

• 2:14:23Speaker 01

  From Manion Hall, down at where the officer's school is, they have a hall named after Travis. They all showed up. And of course, the loonies, you'd think about our service members, but the strength of the families, they insisted with all they were going through that they were going to be over there. And they were there with us. So we laid Travis down on that Friday and then Brendan the following Monday. And Secretary Gates was there and all his Navy SEALs were there to pay him respects. And they put their tridents in his, you know, his coffin. And it was a real emotional time, obviously, you know, just like such a, such a tough time.

• 2:15:09Jocko Willink?

  I'm going to close out the book here with the words that you spoke on the day that you interned Travis at Arlington.

• 2:15:25Jocko Willink?

  I want to thank the Looney family for their presence here today. Our hearts go out to you as you deal with this incredible loss.

• 2:15:35Jocko Willink?

  Brendan represents the best this country has to offer.

• 2:15:41Jocko Willink?

  We mourn him now and we will forever. The passing of this American hero.

• 2:15:51Jocko Willink?

  There are so many mixed emotions for us as we move Travis to this place of honor.

• 2:15:59Jocko Willink?

  Brendan's loss fills all our waking hours, yet we're moving Travis to be next to his great friend.

• 2:16:07Jocko Willink?

  And together with all their warrior brothers and sisters who've paid their full measure defending freedom.

• 2:16:19Jocko Willink?

  This solemn place leaves us with a sadness for the sacrifices, but also extremely proud of these brave Americans who so unselfishly and courageously step forward to confront the evil that faces our world.

• 2:16:36Jocko Willink?

  We, the families of these defenders of freedom, can't begin to describe the void that fills our hearts. But we can tell you how much our sons and daughters love this country and all that it stands for.

• 2:16:54Jocko Willink?

  We are now their voice.

• 2:16:59Jocko Willink?

  So Travis,

• 2:17:02Jocko Willink?

  as we lay you here today beside your brother Brendan and with all your fellow patriots, we will always remember the selfless service and sacrifice. And we will continue to rally in your honor with the call. If not me,

• 2:17:24Jocko Willink?

  then who?

• 2:17:27Jocko Willink?

  To make a difference for others and to always step forward to do what's right, no matter what the cost.

• 2:17:38Jocko Willink?

  God bless you, my son, and rest in peace with your warrior brothers and sisters.

• 2:17:46Jocko Willink?

  First Lieutenant Travis Manion,

• 2:17:50Jocko Willink?

  United States Marine Corps.

• 2:17:54Jocko Willink?

  Lieutenant Brendan Looney, United States Navy.

• 2:17:59Jocko Willink?

  Warriors for freedom.

• 2:18:04Jocko Willink?

  Brothers forever.

• 2:18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you, when you think about Section 60 and all the loss there and, you know, symbolically there Brendan and Travis, great friends, and they're side by side in Arlington. If you're ever there, you know, when I'm out talking to people, I say, you know, if you don't, if you haven't taken your family to Arlington, put it on the list. If you're in DC, or make a special trip to DC to go see Arlington and teach your family about that sacrifice. And make sure you go to Section 60 where all those heroes of today of Iraq and Afghanistan are. There's always something that's happening in Section 60.

• 2:18:55Speaker 01

  And after that, that September when we moved Travis in, that following, that following spring, the Navy SEALs found and killed Osama bin Laden. And then a couple of weeks later, the President spoke about Travis and Brendan as an example for the country in Arlington in his Memorial Day address. We were down there with the loonies to hear that. But again, their, their story is a story that could be anybody's story. There's so many in uniform that do so much. And for me, writing this book is, is telling their story, but making sure it's part of that bigger story and that people appreciate our

• 2:19:37Speaker 01

  men and women in uniform and all they are and what they stand for.

• 2:19:41Jocko Willink?

  Well, it's, it's an amazing story. And Travis is still doing good, right now, with his name. And, and you know, you guys started the Travis Manion Foundation. Tell us a little bit about that.

• 2:19:57Speaker 01

  Well, you know, as I shared earlier, you know, we wanted to make sure we made an impact and, and we got the word out. And, and part of that was my wife said, you know, I'm going to start a foundation. And I wanted to be there for our veterans, make sure I'm supporting the families of the fallen. And the last part of it was, was making sure that we do something to support that next generation of leaders. So she started a, a character program, Character Does Matter, where we get veterans in front of young kids and talk about character and service and integrity and leadership.

• 2:20:36Speaker 01

  And you know, my wife started that. We, we had good friends that were there when we lost Travis. They said, you know what? You guys should set up a memorial fund in lieu of flowers. And we did that. And before we knew it, when we turned around and looked at the bank account, we had money coming in from all over the country and we had $200,000. My wife had $200,000 and she had those five words from Travis, "If not me, then who?" And she got going with that, with those two things. And she came in every day, first started right in our kitchen and started working it. And you know, she worked it till when we lost her, lost Janet, five years, almost five years to the day after

• 2:21:20Speaker 01

  Travis, we lost my wife to cancer. And I guess you, you know, you think about that, that sacrifice and the impact on the families. And I remember doing some research after we found out she had cancer and said she had a significant stressful event in the last four to five years. Yeah, you know, she lost her son. We think about that and then you think about Brendan's mom, who recently died of cancer, or JP Blacksmith's mom who died of cancer, you know? So the impact is significant across the board for our families and, and our, our guys and gals in uniform. So we got going on that and, and my daughter's

• 2:22:01Speaker 01

  picked it up since. And she's doing a great job with it. She's working with a lot of, a lot of great young people. Amy Looney's another one of the leaders of the foundation and she heads up operations in Washington DC. We've got an office here in San Diego. We've got one, we just opened up in Atlanta. We're outside of Philadelphia, Washington. We're getting ready to open up an office in Chicago and we've got an office in Houston, Texas. And we're working with our veterans and, and helping them through transition, working with the families. And you asked before, is this, was this somewhat?

• 2:22:37Speaker 01

  Telling this story a little bit therapeutic and, you know, doing this foundation and pushing that forward was that therapeutic and, you know, we really believe it is, you know, and we believe, you know, there's a grieving period, but we know that Travis would not want us to keep grieving. He'd want us to say, hey, let's go, you know, pick it up and get out there and do something and make a difference. And so we do that, you know, that's what we do every day. And we give some of the families a chance to do that, too. We get families to go out and go on expeditions and help those that are in need, build houses. And it's really great for them, you know, it's great to see them out there doing something

• 2:23:22Speaker 01

  in honor of their lost one, loved one, and making an impact for others.

• 2:23:26Jocko Willink?

  What's the best way for people to support, where can they find out information about the Travis Manion Foundation?

• 2:23:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, they can go on our website, travismanion.org.

• 2:23:36Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:23:37Speaker 01

  Got a lot of information there. We're around the country doing different things. We've got offices in some locations, but we've got activities almost everywhere. And for us, it's about joining the If Not Me Then Who movement, you know, making a difference wherever you can. And you can do that in a lot of different ways.

• 2:23:55Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. Echo, speaking of supporting things.

• 2:24:04Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:24:05Jocko Willink?

  If someone wanted to support, let's say, for instance, this podcast, how would they do that?

• 2:24:10Speaker 02

  Well, a few ways, obviously. I'm not gonna make this one a whole long spiel, but, you know, we'll start with Onnit. That's a good way, that's a good way to support yourself, too, by the way, which I think we already know. But, okay, Onnit, these are supplements. There's other, other stuff, too, workout stuff and whatnot. But, anyway, go to onnit.com slash Jocko's 10% off. Okay, a guy on Twitter was asking me, oh, what? I think he was asking both of us. What are like some supplements to?

• 2:24:47Speaker 02

  Gain muscle, lose fat.

• 2:24:50Jocko Willink?

  Burpees?

• 2:24:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, see, see, see that answer though? It wasn't a supplement, you know?

• 2:24:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:55Speaker 02

  He was like, what are the best? And that's what I thought too. It's not the supplements.

• 2:24:59Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 2:24:59Speaker 02

  It's like you gotta get on the correct workout to do that. Supplements help though. And it's gonna take certain supplements for whatever results. So, anyway. To answer that question, get on a muscle building, fat re- loss workout. Metcons. And I hate to say it, like a bodybuilding routine.

• 2:25:21Jocko Willink?

  You love saying it, you don't hate to say it?

• 2:25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, in front of you, I kinda hate to say it, cuz the look you give me.

• 2:25:25Jocko Willink?

  Straight up bodybuilder.

• 2:25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get you.

• 2:25:30Speaker 02

  See, Tom knows.

• 2:25:31Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:25:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the supplements will help. And like we always say, the krill oil, you get on the krill oil.

• 2:25:38Speaker 01

  Krill oil's good.

• 2:25:39Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, you know, so a long time ago, my father-in-law, he, he would always tell my wife, oh, krill oil is good for your joints. It'll maintain your, and meanwhile, I'm lifting. Like krill oil, where's the, you know, where's the protein powder type additive? Even actually, I never really was into supplements, but I was like, why would I need the krill oil? I'm looking for, for gains. Let's face it.

• 2:26:00Speaker 01

  Muscle mass.

• 2:26:01Speaker 02

  Exactly right, you know? I mean, respect on the krill oil, you know, this, obviously, my father-in-law is older than me. And so I get it, but you know, you don't have to indirectly tell me about it. Man, I wish I just would've listened to him, you know? It keeps you in the game way longer, way better. Anyway, get on the krill oil.

• 2:26:18Speaker 01

  Good advice.

• 2:26:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Gotta get on that.

• 2:26:21Speaker 01

  I'm doing it too.

• 2:26:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:22Speaker 02

  Right, how can you not, really?

• 2:26:24Jocko Willink?

  I said, do it.

• 2:26:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, get on that. Pardon the pun, on it, get on that, on it. On it dot com slash Jaco, get 10% off of anything you get on there. There's some good stuff on there, by the way. You can get addicted to the website itself, cuz it's so interesting and informative.

• 2:26:40Speaker 02

  If you like, um.

• 2:26:41Jocko Willink?

  Interesting and informative.

• 2:26:43Speaker 02

  I didn't say it like that.

• 2:26:43Jocko Willink?

  Yes, you did.

• 2:26:44Speaker 02

  No, I didn't.

• 2:26:44Jocko Willink?

  Pretty much, you did.

• 2:26:46Speaker 01

  No comment.

• 2:26:49Speaker 02

  Anyway. There's some good stuff on there. Um, also, Amazon click through. What that does is, before you do your Amazon shopping, go to the website docpodcast.com, click on the Amazon link. There's a few of them there on the front page. You can find them.

• 2:27:05Speaker 02

  Click on there before you do shopping. Do your shopping as normal, whether you're getting the book, any book, or anything else, duct tape, whatever. Click through that link and it supports this podcast a little bit. Also, subscribe iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, all these podcast platforms. That's a good way to support. Leave a review if you're in the mood, right?

• 2:27:31Jocko Willink?

  I say affirmative.

• 2:27:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, approved. Approved by Jocko Reviews. Also on YouTube, we are putting excerpts, I think now on a regular basis, right? Would you, would you?

• 2:27:44Jocko Willink?

  Give you like a out of 10, like a 3.2?

• 2:27:47Speaker 02

  All right, see, that's better than zero, see? So boom, subscribe to YouTube. You'll get some excerpts along with the video version of this podcast if you're into looking at what Jocko looks like, what Tom looks like, or what I look like. You can watch it on YouTube.

• 2:28:03Jocko Willink?

  There was a lot of controversy when we first put it on YouTube because Echo doesn't look like what he sounds like. Apparently he sounds like a

• 2:28:11Speaker 02

  Hipster.

• 2:28:12Jocko Willink?

  15 year old

• 2:28:13Speaker 02

  Hipster?

• 2:28:14Jocko Willink?

  Hipster.

• 2:28:14Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Something.

• 2:28:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, something more along.

• 2:28:17Speaker 01

  Uh huh, okay.

• 2:28:18Speaker 02

  Little did they know that, I mean.

• 2:28:20Speaker 01

  Until they saw him, huh? Then they figured out he's a 20 year old hipster.

• 2:28:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, man, dang. But yeah, you know, if you're interested in that kind of stuff, um, but the excerpts really are helpful because you can share them and people will actually watch them. Like, uh, my brother sends me this. Actually, you know what? I was about to say this like maybe two, three times ago, but I ended up, for whatever reason, I said, Jade will send me a video and be like, hey, watch this. And then I'll be like, bro, I'm not gonna watch this video right now. It's like five, 10 minutes long. Actually, it was like nine minutes, something.

• 2:28:53Jocko Willink?

  Too much for you.

• 2:28:54Speaker 02

  Too much for me. And, and the thing is, nine minutes, that's not that long, but the point still stands. You can't just send somebody episode 72 of this podcast that's

• 2:29:05Speaker 02

  Almost three hours long, hey, watch this real quick. You can't do that.

• 2:29:08Speaker 01

  Right. It's not a quick one.

• 2:29:10Speaker 02

  Exactly, right. Especially if, you know, especially if it's just that one little part that they want to see.

• 2:29:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he puts some highlights in there.

• 2:29:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, X trips.

• 2:29:16Jocko Willink?

  Usually he highlights himself and just puts himself on there.

• 2:29:19Speaker 01

  Here's Echo, yeah.

• 2:29:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:22Jocko Willink?

  Echo with another amazing point.

• 2:29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, yeah, man, you know, so, yeah, all that's on YouTube. I even put them in little playlists, too. So, you know, some people are like, hey, I like this point, and then it'll lead you to the next point, and, you know, you can kind of keep it going. But, yeah, that's cool. I think it's cool. Anyway, also, Jocko has a store. It's called Jocko Store. jockostore.com. And for this website, really, it's a website with a store. And I put those wallpapers back on there for your phone.

• 2:29:52Jocko Willink?

  I didn't even know you took them off.

• 2:29:53Speaker 02

  Thing is, I didn't, technically, I didn't take them off, is when we switch platforms, they just failed to translate.

• 2:29:59Jocko Willink?

  So, it was the platform's fault, not yours, is what I'm hearing over here.

• 2:30:03Speaker 02

  No, no, no, extreme disownership on that one. And, you know, I blame tech on that.

• 2:30:07Speaker 01

  Jocko White Tea over there.

• 2:30:09Speaker 02

  Dig it. Oh, we're gonna get to that one.

• 2:30:11Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 2:30:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's on the, on the, jockostore.com, yeah. You can get the Jocko White Tea on there, through there.

• 2:30:19Speaker 02

  If you like t-shirts, those are on there.

• 2:30:23Speaker 02

  Discipline equals freedom. The reason I think that that's a good shirt, in my opinion, is because, of course, the layers, I get it. But it is one of those simple little things, like, it's not, and it's not, like, too extreme either. It's not like...

• 2:30:41Jocko Willink?

  Echo, when we designed this shirt, Echo wanted to put a flying tank with dragon fire coming out of its mouth.

• 2:30:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and a skull.

• 2:30:48Jocko Willink?

  And a skull.

• 2:30:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:49Speaker 01

  Where was he putting that?

• 2:30:51Jocko Willink?

  He was gonna put it all over the whole thing.

• 2:30:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, all over, yeah. See, and that'd be like too much. Yes, yes, yes. So, or, you know, like, a saying, like, "I'll eat your kids for breakfast if you mess with me," you know, those kinds of crazy sayings that will only hit maybe like one out of a hundred times, you know, when someone reads it. It's not that.

• 2:31:09Jocko Willink?

  Only the cannibals, apparently, that one.

• 2:31:12Speaker 02

  But you know what I'm talking about.

• 2:31:14Speaker 01

  Not many of them left, right?

• 2:31:16Speaker 02

  I don't think so. But this one, it's, it's, for lack of a better term, understated, yet powerful. That's my opinion. Anyway, other shirts on there.

• 2:31:29Speaker 02

  You know, various messages and with those messages come layers and what that means is, you can look at it and be like, okay, that's a cool shirt, but there's more to it. So if you listen to this podcast or listen to Jocko, you'll be like, oh, oh, I get it. You know what I mean?

• 2:31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 2:31:43Speaker 02

  There's more than just what's on the surface. There's another layer to it. Yes, exactly right. If you listen, you know. Some rash guards on there. The new rash guard's gonna come out in less than one week. Also, good way to support this podcast. Very good way to support yourself in your journey.

• 2:32:06Speaker 02

  Journey, are we, do, do people still use the word journey?

• 2:32:09Jocko Willink?

  It's your word, man. Go with it.

• 2:32:10Speaker 02

  I never felt comfortable using the word journey.

• 2:32:13Jocko Willink?

  Cause you weren't going anywhere.

• 2:32:17Speaker 02

  I don't think I've been on an actual journey. But you know, it's one of those things that you kind of hear people saying it, it kind of sounds epic. But then when you say it, it sounds real stupid. I felt like the word journey is kind of like that. Anyway, yeah, all right. If you're on your journey to, what? Get up early, be more disciplined, get a better diet, just get your health together, get your whole thing together. This is what will help you there. Okay, so on this journey, it's not gonna be, you're not gonna be hitting every day, like killing every day. You're gonna have, some days are gonna be harder than others. So if you're having trouble, for example, waking up early one day,

• 2:32:59Speaker 02

  this is what you're gonna do. You're gonna search psychological warfare Jocko Willink on iTunes or Amazon Music. Okay, so it's this album with tracks and you put it on your phone, whatever.

• 2:33:12Speaker 02

  You listen to the track that's gonna help you get out of bed. That one's called Wake Up. Wake up and get after it boom so instead of uh instead of hitting the snooze you hit or put it as your ringtone clear it with your wife or whoever you sleep with but put it as your ringtone

• 2:33:31Speaker 02

  it's Jocko's voice he'll tell you why you should wake up and get after it and you

• 2:33:35Speaker 01

  that's convincing

• 2:33:36Speaker 02

  it is but you'd be surprised I I mean wait who's there was like one rare incident

• 2:33:42Jocko Willink?

  almost 100% success rate there's one guy because there's actually three checks to wake up the first one to wake up the second like what did you just do you didn't get out of bed there's one guy out of a lot of people that have has made it to the second track everyone else's first track we're good

• 2:33:58Speaker 01

  yeah

• 2:33:59Speaker 02

  you can't you can't not get up and again that's a rare case you know that guy he probably had a really hard night the night before looking into or looking forward to really really hard day and that's why he was considering

• 2:34:14Speaker 01

  like training wheels right

• 2:34:15Jocko Willink?

  yeah he calls it a spot

• 2:34:18Speaker 01

  I like spot yeah

• 2:34:19Speaker 02

  it's better yeah training wheels kinda seems like without it you fall down you know this is just for you know if I'm trying to get that max on bench this is a this is a big goal I got now I'm gonna wake up for one year I'm gonna wake up early or something like this just like if I have a huge goal with a bench all I'm gonna get it I'll probably get it but in the small case that let's say I'm not strong enough today I didn't get enough sleep or whatever I got a spot there boom

• 2:34:45Speaker 01

  yeah

• 2:34:45Speaker 02

  then I'll get it same thing same exact thing so yeah there it is psychological warfare and this goes for for waking up early skipping workouts that's a big one in my opinion skipping workouts but that's just in my experience

• 2:34:56Jocko Willink?

  somebody asked me on Twitter the other day uh what was it what what do you say to yourself when you get tired and you wanna quit you don't want to do anything anymore and I said I don't say anything to myself I just keep doing it

• 2:35:11Jocko Willink?

  Next question.

• 2:35:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, see what that is, that's that manual set. You know, if you're on auto, you're like, whatever I feel like doing, if you like not doing it, if I feel like I want to quit. But you're just gonna sort of quit automatically. No, I'm switching it to manual.

• 2:35:25Jocko Willink?

  Take control.

• 2:35:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly, right. So yeah, boom, there's a good, uh, psychological warfare. Jocko Willink. It's good for waking up early if you have a day that you don't want to wake up early. You're gonna slip on your diet. Let's face it, we come home, we're hungry. Nothing's in the house except for some donuts.

• 2:35:41Jocko Willink?

  Oh, snap.

• 2:35:43Speaker 02

  The chance of you eating the donuts goes up a little bit, let's just face it, actually a lot.

• 2:35:47Speaker 01

  What do you, what do you do there, huh?

• 2:35:49Speaker 02

  Exactly, right.

• 2:35:50Jocko Willink?

  First of all, you shouldn't have donuts in your house.

• 2:35:51Speaker 02

  But if you do. In the event of you having donuts, yes. Listen to psychological warfare, sugar coated lies.

• 2:35:56Jocko Willink?

  That's the name.

• 2:35:57Speaker 02

  Snack time.

• 2:35:58Jocko Willink?

  And, and the psychological warfare album number two is being slowly prepared at this point. It's, it's in the mix. People are asking me for specific tracks. Little areas of weakness in life.

• 2:36:12Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:36:13Jocko Willink?

  A also, Jocko White Tea, you can get it on amazon.com after you click through. If you don't want to deadlift in excess of eight thousand pounds, don't get it. Get a different kind of tea. If you want to deadlift eight thousand pounds, guaranteed, get Jocko White Tea.

• 2:36:32Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:36:32Jocko Willink?

  Cause that's what it does.

• 2:36:35Jocko Willink?

  It does taste good, though.

• 2:36:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:36Jocko Willink?

  In all seriousness.

• 2:36:37Speaker 01

  I gotta get some of that.

• 2:36:39Jocko Willink?

  I don't think, I think we have any here. Otherwise I'll give you some.

• 2:36:42Speaker 01

  Is there age limit on that, or what?

• 2:36:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:36:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:36:44Jocko Willink?

  We, we are, I do have to give you a heads up. There is, we haven't done it yet, but we're gonna have to put some kind of a fertility warning on there as well. Because apparently several drinkers have impregnated their wives shortly after drinking Jocko White Tea.

• 2:36:59Speaker 02

  Okay. Some unplanned.

• 2:37:00Jocko Willink?

  You just gotta be careful.

• 2:37:01Speaker 01

  Is that what it says, discipline equals freedom on the other side, or sort of?

• 2:37:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, you kinda gotta heed that, you know what I mean?

• 2:37:08Jocko Willink?

  You gotta, yes, exactly. You need to heed that with, with, with your loved one.

• 2:37:16Jocko Willink?

  Way of the Warrior Kid, guess when it's available? Now, now.

• 2:37:20Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:37:21Jocko Willink?

  So. Order it. Amazon's gonna start pre-shipping it in a day or two. So get ahead of the rush. Get it while you can, because otherwise it's, you're not gonna get it. And all the other kids are gonna be destroying your dreams with their strength and power. Dig it.

• 2:37:43Jocko Willink?

  You can also preorder Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. That comes out in October. Of course, Extreme Ownership, you get that one if you want to lead and win. You can get a copy of that for you and your team. Also, while you're on Amazon, you can get this book right here that we reviewed today. Brothers Forever. It's, read it, get it, read it. You know, written by, written by the Colonel here. And again, we went over a fraction of it today. There's so many lessons learned in it. Pick it up. If you need leadership training beyond books, you can contact Echelon Front Leadership and Management Consultants. Applying Combat Leadership Principles to Business and Life.

• 2:38:27Jocko Willink?

  Email [email protected]. Also, the muster coming up. Round the corner, Marriott Grand Marquis, New York City, May 4th and 5th. Leadership, Strategy, Tactics, and Winning. Go to extremeownership.com and sign up for that. You can also sign up for the one that we're having in Texas, by the way. Dig it. That's available now. Where in Texas? Austin, Texas. Good spot. Onnit Academy over there. The Onnit Academy's there. We will be having A little something. Sessions, a session at least there. It's been discussed with the folks at Onnit. We're also hanging around on the interwebs, by the way, on Twitter, on Instagram,

• 2:39:09Jocko Willink?

  and on the FaceBook. Echo is at Echo Charles. I am at Jocko Willink. And for the Travis Manion Foundation on Facebook and Instagram, you can search Travis Manion Foundation. On Twitter, it's at TM Foundation. At TM Foundation. If you want to check out the Travis Manion Foundation. And on the interweb itself, it's travasemannion.org.

• 2:39:42Jocko Willink?

  Echo, you got anything else?

• 2:39:45Speaker 02

  What weight did Travis wrestle at?

• 2:39:48Speaker 01

  He was 184, at Navy.

• 2:39:51Speaker 02

  So, what did he walk around at, like 250? You know, the guys, wrestlers cut weight.

• 2:39:56Speaker 01

  That's cutting a lot of weight there, but he's probably about 210, 215. He's a big guy.

• 2:40:02Speaker 02

  That's still a lot of weight.

• 2:40:03Jocko Willink?

  That's a hoss right there.

• 2:40:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, the big guys at 184, college wrestling.

• 2:40:09Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure.

• 2:40:10Speaker 01

  It's like an all out battle. I mean, like injuries.

• 2:40:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:40:14Speaker 01

  Tough, tough.

• 2:40:15Speaker 02

  That kinda seems like the most, um, I don't wanna say dynamic, but the most like the, you know how you get? Heavyweights, huge power, but they start to slow down. Lightweights, they're flying around, super technical, but they don't have that, you know what I mean? That power than the 184s.

• 2:40:32Speaker 01

  The middleweights are tough.

• 2:40:33Jocko Willink?

  They're tough.

• 2:40:34Speaker 01

  Really tough.

• 2:40:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. They got, yeah, they got both.

• 2:40:37Speaker 01

  Battles.

• 2:40:38Jocko Willink?

  Some beasts in there.

• 2:40:39Speaker 02

  Respect. Thank you.

• 2:40:41Speaker 01

  Thank you, Echo.

• 2:40:42Jocko Willink?

  Do you have any, uh, any, any closing, closing comments?

• 2:40:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I just, um, I wanna thank you guys. Thanks, Jocko and Echo for having me here and giving me the opportunity to talk about the story a little bit. And thanks for what you guys do to, to talk about leadership and the lessons that you've learned, Jocko, and, and the Navy SEALs and sharing that with others and bringing new insights about our men and women in uniform. I mean, you hear so much these days about the troubles that our service members have, you know, whether they're missing a limb, they don't have a job, they've got PTSD, but, you know, we, we also should be talking about is what an inspiration they are.

• 2:41:28Speaker 01

  The guys that put on the uniform, the men and women that put on the uniform are an inspiration for this country. And, and thanks for what you're doing to get the word out there. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about this book, but, but more broadly, the, the story of our men and women in uniform and how they live every day with that if not me, then who motto. Thanks.

• 2:41:50Jocko Willink?

  Absolute honor, sir. And you know, sir, one more thing before we close out. I know you were talking about a letter that you had that kind of talked about some of the leadership principles that we really learn in the military and really make military leaders excel. And it's a letter that you got from one of the Marines that worked for your son.

• 2:42:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, it's sort of interesting that I, you know, here I am coming out to talk to you and I've had the book published for a couple of years now, but I just got this letter through Coach Sharrett. You talked about Coach Sharrett and this Marine that was with my son, served with my son, hooked up with Coach Sharrett at one of the wrestling events and said, hey, you knew Colonel Mann, you'd give him this letter. And, you know, here he is checking in after 10 years. And he says, things he'd like to share with me,

• 2:42:59Speaker 01

  a couple of things, things that are not well-known by people other than those and myself that served with Travis in Fallujah. Those memories are things I'm able to hold on to, but have been wanting to share with his family as well. I apologize for such a long silence. It seems to be the best opportunity for me to share them with you by passing along this letter. And he actually passed along the bracelet. He had Travis's name on a bracelet he'd worn for the past 10 years, especially as he says with 10-year anniversary coming up. He talked about, you know, the backstory. He's from Columbus, Ohio. He joined Lima Company. He

• 2:43:42Speaker 01

  then met Travis and the rest of the Marines in January 2007 as they rotated in to work with the Iraqi Army counterparts.

• 2:43:50Speaker 01

  At the time, I'd hit my two-year mark in the Corps, but had not yet have an opportunity to work with a true leader. With so many, with so few Marines assigned to the mid-team, Travis was my team leader. Travis was a true leader, and someone that was easy for me to look up to and respect. He had the perfect balance of caring for his Marines without babying them, discipline without being too harsh, being laid back when we're not involved in missions while standing, while still leading from the front, once it got time to get the work done. And we talked about that. "As I progressed through my military career, Travis was the leader that I strive to be.

• 2:44:35Speaker 01

  Your son set the example of how a leader should be. I read the book and enjoyed learning more about him as a man, not just a Marine. I also enjoyed getting to know Brendan and their incredibly rare friendship. It made it easy for me to connect how he was as a person back home and how he was raised." So he said, "I wanted to share two stories." So, I hit the highlights of this, but first story, he found kind of humorous, and you talked about Travis having a sense of humor. So, here you go. It's February, they're out, patrol turned out to be uneventful for the most part, until they started returning to the outpost.

• 2:45:17Speaker 01

  As they were returning, an IED was initiated and an ambush started. Thankfully, the IED did not detonate the artillery shell it was attached to, but only the blasting cap and nose of the shell blew. This injured a soldier, and another Iraqi soldier was shot while rushing to the aid. Both were non-life threatening. Once the ambush started, I began radioing back to request QFR. Although Travis was not on the patrol, he managed to find a way to get on the QRF team. As a short ambush subsided, the QRF showed up.

• 2:46:00Speaker 01

  Travis's presence calmed any nerves that I had. The injured Iraqi had already taken back to receive treatment. What I remember most about this situation was that Travis, always about Travis that brings a smile to my face. I was standing on the north side of the road and Travis was on the south. I remember he began to cross the road in a jog, just as an Iraqi soldier let out a burst from his AK to the east to stop a vehicle from approaching. As soon as the burst went off, Travis tripped across the road, doing a barrel roll and coming back to his feet with his helmet pushed back on his head. As soon as he reached me on the north side of the road, he said, "Is everybody okay over here?" I replied, "Yes, sir.

• 2:46:44Speaker 01

  Everyone is okay. Are you okay, sir?" To which he responded, "Yeah, but somebody should get that pothole fixed." And a near-death experience for me, this brought a laughter, as my leader had just been startled by an Iraqi army warning shot causing him to fall on barrel roll in the middle of Iraqi street. So having that sense of humor, right? Being able to laugh at yourself. And then the other story he shared is about this guy's birthday. My second story of Travis is more sentimental. My birthday is April 3rd, and I'm turning 21. That night, we all slated for overnight observation, searching for possible IEDs. But I'd been pulled from the mission to remain behind.

• 2:47:28Speaker 01

  I thought nothing of it and went to bed on the 2nd, ready to be on the QRF in case anything were to happen. At midnight, I was woken up and told I needed to go to the COC because they were requesting me over the radio. I shook the cobwebs from my head and walked to the COC. After calling to the patrol on the radio, I was greeted with Travis, Travis's voice in a whisper, simply to wish me a happy birthday. Throughout the madness of patrolling, staying awake all night, and searching for IEDs, he had kept me in mind, and as soon as the day transitioned from the 2nd to the 3rd, he called over the radio to wish me a happy birthday. A week later, I left Iraq, the MIT team, and Travis. I will never forget that. I'll never forget him.

• 2:48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, you know, I just received this the other day and, you know, I still hear from guys that he served with and just little things that, you know, caring about your people, having a good sense of humor, leadership traits that we can all use.

• 2:48:32Jocko Willink?

  No doubt about it.

• 2:48:33Speaker 02

  You know, crazy hell, these themes, they just, they're coming, you hear them everywhere as far as good leaders, you know, like all the good leaders, they have these themes, that dichotomy, like you gotta be strict, but you can't be like a slave driver, you know, it's that balancing act. And I guess that's why there's just a few leaders because it's so hard to do. You know, it's like some people think, "Oh, I'm just gonna go, I'm an extreme guy," you know, "I'm gonna go extreme," but it's not like that.

• 2:49:00Jocko Willink?

  Yep, even a guy with an extreme personality like Travis, who can push himself that hard to be a national level wrestler, understands leadership to the point where he knows what it means to call back to base while you're out on patrol and wish a happy birthday to one of your men.

• 2:49:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:18Jocko Willink?

  It's just awesome.

• 2:49:19Speaker 01

  It's a good way to put it too, Echo, it's a balancing act, you know, for everyone to sort of figure it out, you know, it's not one, one situation for everyone.

• 2:49:29Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:49:31Jocko Willink?

  Well, sir, thanks again for, for coming on the show and, and sharing this story. Thank you for your service in the Marine Corps and of course, thank you for raising such an incredible man and Marine and hero and son. And, once again, we see another, another

• 2:50:07Jocko Willink?

  tale, another legend of bravery and of sacrifice from these two heroic leaders. But I still want to remind everyone as always that these are not imagined legends or myths, and these aren't symbolic stories that were made up to reinforce some ancient parable.

• 2:50:45Jocko Willink?

  These are the lives of men.

• 2:50:48Jocko Willink?

  Real men.

• 2:50:52Jocko Willink?

  Who stepped up and stepped forward and gave everything.

• 2:51:00Jocko Willink?

  For us.

• 2:51:05Jocko Willink?

  And in that sacrifice,

• 2:51:09Jocko Willink?

  we see the unmeasurable suffering of the families rocked with pain and yet,

• 2:51:18Jocko Willink?

  filled with pride.

• 2:51:23Jocko Willink?

  To have known

• 2:51:28Jocko Willink?

  and to have absorbed the light and the love that these men emanated in life.

• 2:51:42Jocko Willink?

  A light that will not fade and will not grow old like the flesh.

• 2:51:54Jocko Willink?

  A light that will guide us all

• 2:52:00Jocko Willink?

  down the righteous path toward the good,

• 2:52:05Jocko Willink?

  regardless of the cost.

• 2:52:12Jocko Willink?

  For them, we hold our heads higher

• 2:52:17Jocko Willink?

  and do our best to make the world

• 2:52:21Jocko Willink?

  a better place.

• 2:52:24Jocko Willink?

  Like they did.

• 2:52:29Jocko Willink?

  We will do our utmost to emulate Brendan Looney.

• 2:52:38Jocko Willink?

  We will be strong, we will be accountable, we will not complain.

• 2:52:47Jocko Willink?

  And in the most trying of times, we will ask ourselves a simple question.

• 2:52:56Jocko Willink?

  Same one that Travis Manion asked when he faced

• 2:53:04Jocko Willink?

  the darkness of the world.

• 2:53:09Jocko Willink?

  If not me,

• 2:53:13Jocko Willink?

  then who?

• 2:53:21Jocko Willink?

  So until next time,

• 2:53:25Jocko Willink?

  this is Colonel Thomas Manion, and Echo, and Jocko.

• 2:53:32Jocko Willink?

  Out.