54: How to Lead and Command Ultimate Respect. With the "Armed Forces Officer Manual"

0:00:00 - Opening "Uneasy Lies the head who wears the crown..." 0:09:27 - "The Armed Forces Officer" Military Manual https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/098836963X/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=jocko20-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=098836963X&linkId=794c77f5825f24e004e6d86ab4c0d237 1950 Version (Limited) Critical Elements: Nobody's Perfect, Bragging Rights for Hard work, Unselfishness commands Loyalty, Write Well / Speak Well, Humility, Physical Conditioning, Empower Others. 3:05:18 - The Take-away 3:07:18 - Cool Internet, Onnit, http://www.onnit.com/jocko Amazon https://www.amazon.com/?&tag=jocko20-20&camp=216797&creative=498569&linkCode=ur1&adid=1RNFR9A8EXBZ16EXZWQZ&, JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff along with Muster 002 https://www.extremeownership.com/ and Jocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com info. 3:27:08 - Final Thoughts and Gratitude Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 54 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:12Jocko Willink?

  Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.

• 0:18Jocko Willink?

  You got some Shakespeare right there. You got some Henry the Fourth, Part Two.

• 0:26Jocko Willink?

  And that play is a play that came just prior to Henry the Fifth. The hero, the warrior, the leader of that few, that happy few. That band of brothers. Well, his dad, Henry the Fourth, was having a rough time in the kingdom. Facing rebellion.

• 0:56Jocko Willink?

  And there's a point in the play where he, the old man, Henry the Fourth, he can't sleep.

• 1:04Jocko Willink?

  Can't sleep because of the pressure, the pressure and the weight of being a leader. And it's a great, it's a great chunk of the play. And it starts with that line, uneasy lies the head that wears a crown. And it actually doesn't start with that line. That's the last line.

• 1:25Jocko Willink?

  It starts off a little different. It starts off here. How many thousand of my poorest subjects are at this hour asleep?

• 1:39Jocko Willink?

  So he's saying, hey, out there, you know, there's thousands and thousands of my subjects. They're out there sleeping right now.

• 1:48Jocko Willink?

  Oh, sleep, oh gentle sleep, nature's soft nurse. How have I frightened thee that thou will, that thou no more will weigh my eyelids down and steep my senses in forgetfulness? So he's talking asleep. Sleep is like a, like a god to him at this point. And he's saying, what did I do to scare you off? What did I do? How come you won't bring me that goodness way down my eyes?

• 2:23Jocko Willink?

  Going back, "Why rather sleep? Liest thou in smoky cribs, Upon uneasy pallets stretching thee, And hushed with buzzing nightflies to thy slumber? Then in perfumed chambers of the great, Under the canopies of costly state, And lulled with sound of sweetest melody."

• 2:52Jocko Willink?

  So he's asking sleep. He's saying, "Look, sleep, you're there, You're there hanging out in these smoky, Filthy houses and hovels, And people are sleeping on boards? And, and, and to lull people to sleep in those situations? It's insects buzzing around their heads. You, sleep's all there, taking care of those people. But sleep doesn't come to him In the most beautiful, In the most luxurious estate rooms, Where there's, where there's all gentle music playing. No bugs flying around, it's all gentle music playing."

• 3:30Jocko Willink?

  Back to the play. "O thou dull god, Why liest thou with the vile? In lonesome beds? And leavest thy kingly couch? A watchcase? Or a common larram bell?" So same, same subject. He's saying, "Look, why do you, dull god, So dull, meaning, look, sleeping, dull? Why are you hanging around the nastiest beds? But you, you know, this beautiful bed, you don't come near it? You leave it vacant, like a, like a watchtower, like a bell tower?

• 4:11Jocko Willink?

  Wilt thou upon the high and giddy mast, Seal up the shipboy's eyes?" So now he's talking, he starts talking about even a sailor At sea, high up on a mast, right? A, a giddy mast.

• 4:30Jocko Willink?

  You seal up the shipboy's eyes and rock his brains in cradle of the rude imperious surge and in the visitation of winds who take the ruffian billows by the top curling their monstrous heads and hanging them with deafening clamor in the slippery clouds that with the hurly death itself awakes.

• 4:58Jocko Willink?

  So he's saying this sailor, there's a sailor at sea who's getting punished by the storm and the thunder is clapping and the ship is bounding back and forth, but guess what? He gets to fall asleep, he goes to sleep, no problem.

• 5:19Jocko Willink?

  Canst thou, oh partial sleep, give thy repose to the wet sea boy in an hour so rude? And in the calmest and most stillest night with all appliances and means to boot, deny it to a king.

• 5:41Jocko Willink?

  So he's saying again, in an hour so rude, storms, mayhem at sea, he gives the sailor sleep, but in this calmest and most stillest night with every available luxury to boot, yet sleep is denied to the king.

• 6:04Jocko Willink?

  And then he says, then happy low lie down.

• 6:12Jocko Willink?

  Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown. So then happy low lie down, he's saying, look, low, by low, he means the peasants. He's like, alright then, you happy, happy low, you peasants, lie down, lie down, sleep, that's what you get.

• 6:34Jocko Willink?

  But uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.

• 6:38Jocko Willink?

  The leader doesn't get to rest. The leader doesn't get to sleep and that's another example of what we know and that is that leadership is hard. It's a heavy burden, it's hard business. And it's part science and part art.

• 7:00Jocko Willink?

  And part of it is natural ability. And part of it is learned. And the book that we're going to dive into today, it isn't Shakespeare. It's actually a military manual.

• 7:14Jocko Willink?

  Military manual written by S L A Marshall, but guided by George, General George C. Marshall and Dwight D. Eisenhower. And this book was written just after World War II. Now, if you remember Hackworth, if you've read About Face, Hackworth talks about Marshall, S L A Marshall and he, he did some writing in Vietnam that Hackworth was a little bit not impressed with. And there's certainly some controversy about S L A Marshall and some of the things that he wrote and some of the things that he said that he lived through. There's some controversy, if not proven fact, that he fabricated some stuff. But I think you're going to find as we dive into this book

• 7:59Jocko Willink?

  that from a leadership perspective, the experiences that he did bring back from World War I, the experiences that he got from Eisenhower and from the other Marshall. I think it's a really good reflection and a, and a good look at some leadership lessons learned that we can take something from. Now, the book is actually called The Armed Forces Officer, very simple title. And the, the, the version that I'm going through, because this book is still in publication, the version that I'm going through is a 19, is from 1950. 1950 version. Like I said, it's written in world, just after World War II, obviously, so the lessons are fresh.

• 8:40Jocko Willink?

  And I guess that the new version has been cleaned up or something. There's, there's, I guess that the 1950s version isn't fully politically correct. I don't know, because to be frank, I haven't read the new version, because I got the old version. I want the real deal. And I don't find anything offensive in this, in this one, so maybe someone else will. I guess there's some things that might be a little bit borderline, but yeah, I'm not, I'm not really feeling it. And this book was given to me a long time ago by a friend of mine that said, you might like this. And he specifically said, this book, they don't make this one anymore.

• 9:21Jocko Willink?

  But guess what? Everyone's in love, because they do. They brought it back. They brought it back. So the book is the Armed Forces Officer, and it really goes into how to lead. How to lead. So, going to the book. "To call forth great loyalty in other people and to harness it to any noble undertaking, one must first be sensible of their finer instincts and feelings." Certainly, these things at least are among the gentle qualities which are desired in every military officer of the United States.

• 10:01Jocko Willink?

  So here's some basic things that the officers, the military are supposed to have. One, strong belief in human rights. Two, respect for the dignity of every other person. Three, the golden rule attitude toward one's daily associates. Four, an abiding interest in all aspects of human welfare. Five, a willingness to deal with every man as considerately as if he were a blood relative. So pretty simple rules. Respect other people, the golden rule, you know, treat people how you want to be treated yourself. That's, these are the basis, what they're saying you need to be.

• 10:45Jocko Willink?

  And again, let's not, actually, I'm, I was gonna go into this, but they're gonna go into themselves. Here we go, back to the book. "These qualities are the epitome of strength, not of softness."

• 10:56Jocko Willink?

  They mark the man who is capable of pursuing a great purpose consistently in spite of temptations. He who possesses them will all the more surely be regarded as a man among men. Take any crowd of new recruits, the greater number of them during their first few days in service will use more profanity and obscenity, talk more about women and boast more about drinking than they have ever done in their lives. Because of the mistaken idea that this is the quick way to get a reputation for being hard boiled.

• 11:30Jocko Willink?

  But at the same time, the one or two men among them who stay decent, talk moderately and walk the line of duty will uniquely receive the infinite respect of the others. It never fails to happen.

• 11:47Jocko Willink?

  So, little contrary to what we might think. And there's definitely, when you get in the military, when you're going through boot camp, there's all kinds of people acting like tough guys. All kinds of people acting like tough guys. And that, that happens. Let's see one thing that happens in boot camp. I, I, I bet I met more potential professional athletes when I was going through, when I was going through boot camp. Everyone was, I was about to go in the NFL. I was about to be a pro baseball player. I don't know why, but they end up in the military.

• 12:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it is interesting.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Is that kind of like the guy who's 500 and O in the streets when he comes in the MMA gym?

• 12:25Jocko Willink?

  That guy, that guy doesn't work out too well.

• 12:29Jocko Willink?

  All right. And obviously I'm abridging this book a little bit, skipping through. Here we go. Back to the book. Men beget goodwill in other men by giving it. They develop courage in their following mainly as a reflection of the courage which they show in their own action. These two qualities of mind and heart are the essence of sound officership. One is of little avail without the other, and either helps to sustain the other. So you got goodwill and you got courage and they help each other and they sustain each other. Back to the book, as to which is the stronger force in its impact upon the masses

• 13:12Jocko Willink?

  of men, no truth is more certain than the words once written by William James. "Evident though the shortcomings of a man may be, if he is ready to give up his life for a cause, we forgive him everything. However inferior he may be to ourselves in other respects, if we cling to life while he throws it away like a flower, we bow to his superiority."

• 13:39Jocko Willink?

  So I guess courage gets the stronger nod out of that situation. Back to the book, Theodore Roosevelt once said, "If he had a son who refrained from any worthwhile action because of the fear of hurt to himself, he would disown him." Soon after his return to civilian life, General Dwight D. Eisenhower spoke of the worthwhileness of living dangerously. "An officer of the United States Armed Forces cannot go far wrong if he holds these ideas. It is not the suitable profession for those who believe only in digging in and nursing a soft snap until death comes at a ripe old age. Who

• 14:18Jocko Willink?

  risks nothing gains nothing. Nor should there be any room in it for professional smugness, small jealousies, and undue concern about privilege."

• 14:33Jocko Willink?

  So, you can't be hiding all the time. You gotta step up. You gotta lead. You gotta take some risk. You gotta live dangerously. Now, of course, young troopers out there, especially guys out on the battlefield, this doesn't mean running to your death. That's not what it means.

• 14:51Jocko Willink?

  You will take risk. In business world, you'll take risk. In the military, you'll take risk. If you do either in business or in the military, you take risk stupidly. You'll die or you'll lose all your money. Neither one of those is good. But that doesn't mean you hide. And it doesn't mean you take no risk and you shy away. Now, the next part, when he's talking about small jealousies and undue concern about privilege. This eats people up and destroys people. In that light, here we go back to the book. Towards services other than his own, any officer is expected to have both a camaraderie feeling and an imaginative interest.

• 15:36Jocko Willink?

  Any army officer is a better man for having studied the works of Admiral Mahan and familiarized himself with the modern Navy from firsthand experience. Those who lead seagoing forces can enlarge their own capacities by knowing more rather than less about the nature of the air and ground establishments. The submariner can always learn something useful to his own work by mingling with airmen. The airman becomes a better officer as he grows in qualified knowledge of ground and sea fighting. So you gotta learn. Working with other industries, learn about those industries. Learn as much as you can. Don't just stay in your own little, in your own little world because you're comfortable. That's what happens to a lot of us.

• 16:20Jocko Willink?

  You get comfortable in your own world, so that's what you want to stay in. You don't want to look bad. You don't appear to be ignorant and Admiral Mann is kind of the, well, he was a civil war admiral as a matter of fact, but wrote, wrote a book called The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, which the Germans and the Japanese both utilized against us in World War II. So a little bit of a, little bit of risk there, but it's also something that guided the, the thought and the building of the, of the modern US Navy. Now we talk a little bit about what life is like in the military. Back to the book, the military way is a long, hard road. And it makes extraordinary requirements of every individual.

• 17:02Jocko Willink?

  In war particularly, it puts stresses upon men such as they have not known elsewhere. And the temptation to get out from under would be irresistible if their spirits had not been tempered to the ordeal. So you gotta be ready for the hardness. You gotta do things in your life that gets you ready for the hardness. Back to the book, if nothing but fear, and this is when now we're getting into some leadership. If nothing but fear of punishments were depended upon to hold men to the line during extreme trial, the result would be wholesale mutiny and a situation altogether beyond the control of leadership.

• 17:40Jocko Willink?

  So if the only thing, the only reason that your people are following you because it's because of fear of punishment, when the going gets hard, that's not gonna work.

• 17:50Jocko Willink?

  So it must be true that it is the out, that is out of the impact of ideals. Out of the impact of ideals mainly that men develop the strength to face situations which would be normal to run away. Which it would be normal to run away. Also, during the normal routine of peace, members of the armed services are expected to respond to situations that are more extensive, more complex, and take longer to reach fulfillment than the situations to which the majority of men instinctively respond. So things in the military take a long time and you're a big part of that. In a peacetime, big bureaucratic machine, it can be really challenging.

• 18:30Jocko Willink?

  Even the length of the enlistment period looks like a slow march up a 60 mile grade. Promotion is slow. Duty frequently monotonous. It is all too easy for the individual to worry about his own insignificance and to feel that he has become lost in the crowd. Now, this is something that I hear a lot about on social media. More people send me messages on this, or, or Facebook messages, I guess. Where they feel like they're kind of caught in a rut. You know, they're doing their job, they don't really like it, what should I do? And I think this next little section applies to that. Back to the book, what is the main test of human character? Probably, it is this.

• 19:16Jocko Willink?

  That a man will know how to be patient in the midst of hard circumstance, and can continue to be personally effective while living through whatever discouragements beset him and his companions.

• 19:31Jocko Willink?

  Can you drive on? That's what it's asking. Those that job that you don't like? Good. Good, it's a little test. Now, if you're in a situation that you don't like, you drive on in that situation, and also you figure out what your exit strategy is gonna be. You don't want to go through life miserable. You figure out, you start saving your money, you start getting another education, you figure out another job, you get yourself promoted, you do what you gotta do. But don't let that monotonous job that you're not into that day, don't let that burden you down.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's kind of that key there, where you drive on, and it's like, you drive on in life. You don't like necessarily have to drive on and keep doing that job. It's like, you drive on as opposed to, oh, start complaining, or go into some thing where you get self-destructive, or you seek some kind of, I don't know, escapist outlet, or something like that.

• 20:21Jocko Willink?

  But, I'll tell you. You, you drive on, you have other options, right? You work those other options. But whatever it is that your job is, and you'd kick ass at that job. That's, that's what you do. The minute you start slacking, you're going backwards. Don't do it, it's not gonna, what benefit are you gonna get from that? You're gonna get zero benefit from that. You're gonna work your eight hours a day. You're gonna make your $12 an hour. Are you gonna do it in a slack way?

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:44Jocko Willink?

  Or are you gonna, are you gonna do it in an awesome way? I'm gonna do it in an awesome way. Yeah. That's what's gonna get you promoted, that's what's gonna get you, that's what's gonna get you taken care of. In the long run.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  If you. Or you, you, like you say this a lot where you, like even if you're gonna do something, even if you don't enjoy you, still you do it just the best you can. Like you said that like from the beginning. And for someone like me, when I look at it like that, of course, it sounds like a good idea, do it that way. But after you do it, you kind of think back. And I've done both. I've done it where I'm like, oh, I hate doing this. So I'm just gonna basically go through the motions until it's finally done, you know, and I can kind of be relieved or whatever. But when you think back of like, hey, remember when I was doing whatever it is, that job or whatever. When you look back, you kind of have this fulfillment that you did it the best you can.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  You know, you never look back and be like, dang, I'm glad I phoned it in, you know? You always are gonna, even if you didn't like it, like you, you're always satisfied that, that, yeah, I did it the best that I could.

• 21:49Jocko Willink?

  So do it.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:50Jocko Willink?

  Do it the best you can.

• 21:53Jocko Willink?

  Now, here's, there's a couple of the lists in this book. Here's another one. This is the one that's talking about the, the simple virtues that provide a firm foundation.

• 22:05Jocko Willink?

  So here we go. One, a man has honor if he holds himself to a course of conduct because of a conviction that it is in the general interest, even though he is well aware that it may lead to inconvenience, personal loss, humiliation, or grave physical risk. So when he says general interest, he's talking about like the team. So you're gonna hold that conviction, even if, if it's good for the team, you're gonna hold that course, even if you're well aware that it may lead to inconvenience, personal loss, humiliation, or grave physical risk. Boom. That's what honor is. You don't hear honor laid out that well very often. He has veracity if, having studied a question to the limit of his ability,

• 22:50Jocko Willink?

  he says and believes what he thinks to be true, even though it would be the path of least resistance to deceive others and himself.

• 22:59Jocko Willink?

  So this is kind of in the same vein. If you, if you look at something and maybe you don't agree with it, but the easiest thing to do would just be agree with it. No, you don't do that. You step up and say, hey, no, I don't agree with this. Now, we could go into detail on that in the times when you, when you do wanna maybe not be the most truthful person in the world. For instance, we've talked about this before. When your wife is making chicken and it's dry, right? It might not be the best thing to tell her.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:29Jocko Willink?

  The, the amount of water that you're gonna make to drink. So, but in real things and important things, tell the truth. Back to the book. Number three, he has justice if he acknowledges the interests of all concerned in any particular transaction rather than serving his own apparent interest. Look out for others. Number four, he has graciousness if he acts and speaks forthrightly, agrees warmly, disagrees fairly and respectfully, participates enthusiastically, refrains from harboring grudges, takes his reverses in stride and does not complain

• 24:14Jocko Willink?

  or ask for help in the face of trifling calamities.

• 24:21Jocko Willink?

  Those are just solid. Those are just solid. I would say this though, sometimes you gotta ask for help. Right? That's one thing that I, when I work with businesses, there'll be somebody that's, you know, I'm extreme ownership and I'm, I'm gonna own this. And all of a sudden you realize, hey, you're owning that, but you're not gonna be successful at it. Cause that's too much for you. You need help. You need to, you need to put your ego in check. And you need to be able to raise your hand and say, look, I need some help on this. I can't, I don't have this covered. This is too much for me. I wasn't expecting this. Here's my hands in the air. Let me, let me get some help.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  It sometimes seems like it's not necessarily even ego. It's more like, oh, I guess in a way it's ego, but it's more like, shoot, I don't wanna be the guy who has to be dependent on somebody or something like that. Like I, you know?

• 25:02Jocko Willink?

  Which is what?

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Extreme ownership.

• 25:04Jocko Willink?

  Which is ego. Actually, if you're the guy that doesn't wanna be dependent on other people, that's probably your ego. But you are, I think what you're trying to say is that. I don't want to be the guy that has to ask for help. I want to be that guy that carries my own load.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:15Jocko Willink?

  Like, you know what? I'd see this on on SEAL patrols a couple of times in my career where guys were overloaded. And they didn't want to ask for help.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Right. I got this.

• 25:26Jocko Willink?

  Cause it's humiliating. You know, hey, can you carry my ammunition? Or hey, can you carry my radio?

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:32Jocko Willink?

  Can you carry my weapon? That's I I've I've seen it happen. I've carried some extra weapons from time to time. And it's it's a bummer, you know? And you know what? Oh, you know what? You take the weapon. Hey, man. Okay. Get some water in you, you know?

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:48Jocko Willink?

  But that's what you're talking about. People don't want to be that guy. But what's gonna be worse? If if they don't take a load off and they get a heat casualty and now they're down, well, now we're now I gotta carry him, not just his weapon. Which is a bad.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  And we don't have them anymore.

• 26:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he can't he can't fight. He can't even do anything.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Dang. As opposed to the other guy who doesn't know the difference between needing help and wanting help.

• 26:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  And the guy who's just like, oh, help me.

• 26:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Cause he don't want to work.

• 26:19Jocko Willink?

  I had a guy one time. We were on a long patrol. This is back in the day, back in the day. This is pre-war. And my radio man, because I was a radio man when I was a listening guy, and now I wasn't a radio man. I was an officer and and we were on a long patrol. And my radio man was going down, like he was didn't have enough water, was dehydrated, was weak. And so he was bummed, you know, he's he he couldn't keep up with us anymore.

• 26:46Jocko Willink?

  And I said, okay, you know, let me get your radio. So I'm taking a 20-pound radio off his back, putting it in my back. I'm carrying it for, I don't know, a half a day. And then we get to a like a layup point. So this is where we're gonna for civilian, this is where we're gonna camp out for the night. And when we get there, we get a resupply of water and, you know, Gatorade or whatever. So all of a sudden, now everyone's rehydrated. And while we're in there, we gotta make a communications hit to, you know, gotta call headquarters and say, hey, this is our location. So he comes in and takes the radio out of my out of my backpack. You know, he comes over, hey, let me get the radio so I can make this communications. I go, yeah, cool. Open up my bag, give it to him.

• 27:28Jocko Willink?

  And, you know, he makes the radio communications and I'm out doing like a reconnaissance of the area to find out what route we're gonna take.

• 27:36Jocko Willink?

  Anyways, I, I thought, you know, now he's rehydrated.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:39Jocko Willink?

  He's gonna take that radio and, you know, we'll be back in, back in the game. So I come back and when I get back, the radio was sitting on my rucksack. I was like, oh no. But you know what I did? Put it back in my rucksack and carried it. Yeah, you just gotta do it. But yeah, so you, you don't wanna be that guy.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:57Jocko Willink?

  Once you get rehydrated, man, get your weight back on.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. The difference between needing help and wanting.

• 28:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and he did need help.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:07Jocko Willink?

  At one point, but once the Gatorades come in, you know, you're good to go.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:11Jocko Willink?

  You can take that radio back. I was, I was chuckling inside when I saw that radio been placed back on top of my, not inside, but just placed.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You, you got it from here.

• 28:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Go put it back in and we'll be all good here.

• 28:25Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. Good times in the teams.

• 28:29Jocko Willink?

  And the last one here, he has integrity. If his interest in the good of the service is at all times greater than his personal pride, and when he holds himself to the same line of duty when unobserved as he would follow if all his superiors were present. This is the classic, what do you do when you're not, when people aren't looking?

• 28:56Jocko Willink?

  Here's another point. The cause of much of the friction in administrative machinery is that at all levels, there are individuals who insist on standing in their own light. Now, this is a term that I actually had to look up, standing in your own light. It means getting in your own way. It means you're, you're, you're preventing your, you're preventing your own success. And he uses the term a bunch in here, standing in your own light. This is important. They believe that there is some special magic, some quick springboard to success. They mistakenly think that it can be won by bootlicking, apple polishing, yesing higher authority,

• 29:36Jocko Willink?

  playing office politics, throwing weight around, ducking the issue, striving for cheap popularity, courting publicity, or seeking any and all means of grabbing the spotlight. So this is the guy, everybody that's listening to this podcast right now knows that who I'm talking about. That guy, that guy, that's just always trying to kiss everyone's ass and make himself look good. And, and that's, you know, that's a shortcut, right? This is what Marshall's saying is a, is a shortcut or a springboard. You think it's a quick springboard?

• 30:10Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, any one of this set of tricks may enable a man to carry the ball forward a yard or two in some special situation. But at least this comment can be made without qualification of the men who have risen to supreme heights in the fighting establishment of the United States and have had their greatness proclaimed by their fellow countrymen. There is not one career which provides any warrant for the conclusion that there is a special shortcut known only to the smart operators.

• 30:41Jocko Willink?

  True enough, a few men have gained fairly high rank by dint of what late Mr. Justice Holmes called the instinct for the jugular. A feeling of when to jump and where to press and how to slash in order to achieve somewhat predatory personal ends. That will occasionally happen at any walk of life. And I say this all the time, I've said this on this podcast, if you got that guy that we're talking about, sometimes they're gonna, they're gonna get a better recommendation. But sometimes they're gonna get, they're gonna get that promotion that you were wanting and you, you just, you just held the line and were a good person. That person took the credit for something and no one really realized, next thing you know, they get the promotion. But I agree with what's being said here. That does happen sometimes in every walk of life, but in the long run, that person's going down.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:25Jocko Willink?

  That person's going down in the long run.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the more you kind of depend on that sort of thing, the less likely for any kind of success anyway.

• 31:32Jocko Willink?

  Absolutely. Yeah, yep.

• 31:37Jocko Willink?

  And he says here, but from Washington, Wayne and Jones down to Eisenhower, Van de Grift and Nimitz, the best, the men best loved by the American people for their military successes were also the men with greatness of soul.

• 31:56Jocko Willink?

  During World War II, there were quite a few higher commanders relieved in our forces because it was judged for one reason or another that they had failed in battle. So relieved means you got fired. Of the total number, there were a few who took a reduction in rank, went willingly to a lower post in a fighting command, uttered no complaint, kept their chins up, worked courageously and sympathetically with their commands, and provided an example of manhood that all who saw them will never forget. So if you get, I get asked this, I've been asked this a couple of times. I got demoted. Or sometimes not demoted, but I got passed over. You know, someone else got promoted instead of me. What should I do?

• 32:37Jocko Willink?

  Get after it. That's what these guys did. That's what these guys did. Hey, it screwed up. You know what? Check. All right, cool. Let's, let's, here's what I messed up. That was my fault. I'm ready to rock and roll. You put me down. You put me in charge of less people. I got it. I'm gonna do well. Though their names need not be mentioned, they were imprinted with the real virtue of the services even more deeply than many of their colleagues who had no blemishes on their records. Their character had met the ultimate test. The men who had the privilege of working close to them realized this, and the sublime effect of his personal influence helped strengthen the resolve of many others. So it's actually inspirational to people around you when they see that.

• 33:20Jocko Willink?

  And there's been many guys that I've known that have bounced back for some kind of, from some kind of, you know, career problem. They messed something up. They got, they got fired. And they take it, they be humble about it, and they come back and turn it around.

• 33:34Jocko Willink?

  The person that complains and thinks that they're a victim, not gonna work out for them. That's in the civilian sector and in the military sector. Now, start talking a little bit about being a recruit and the kind of the mental training, the mindset training that happens as a recruit to the book. His perseverance in the care of weapons, in keeping his living quarters orderly, and in doing his full share of work is best insured not through fear of punishments, but by stimulating his belief that any other way of going is unworthy of a member of a fighting service.

• 34:15Jocko Willink?

  Precision in personal habits, precision in drill and precision in daily living are the high road to that kind of discipline which best ensures cool and collected thought and unity of action on the field of battle.

• 34:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  I could tell you really like that one.

• 34:40Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's just, it's, it's basically, he's talking about the, the, the unmitigated daily discipline in all things. That's what it is. And that ensures cool and collected thought and unity of action on the field of battle. I got nothing to say about that other than yes, amen.

• 34:58Jocko Willink?

  Here's another little section. When men are well-led, they become fully receptive to the whole body of ideas which their leaders see fit to put before them. Let's think about that. When men are well-led, they become fully receptive to the whole body of ideas which their leaders see fit to put before them. So what we're talking about here is when somebody's a good leader, the, the troopers around them, the people that are working for them, they start to, they believe the whole body, everything, right? They start to believe everything that you're saying. And that's powerful. That's obviously powerful.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kind of goes back to like what, what you're saying about, um, like if you're, if they fear your punishment, that's how you lead, you know, iron fist and, and they fear the punishment. So they're gonna do enough to not get punished, but they won't do anything that like they don't have to. Yeah. It's so it's only what they have to do. So you won't get people doing their best. You know what I mean? So.

• 36:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. And that, that, that punishment piece that I kind of breezed through is, is not through fear of punishments, but by stimulating his belief that any other way. So that's a hundred percent right. And we've, you know, I say that all the time. If you're, if people are doing what you told them to do just because they're afraid of you, sure, you can get, that's gonna work for a little while. You know, oh, I'll fire you. Okay. What's that person doing when he gets home? Putting his, putting his resume on monster.com looking for another job?

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Doing the best not to get fired.

• 36:28Jocko Willink?

  Doing the best not to get fired. He's, he's.

• 36:32Jocko Willink?

  All right, going back to the book, though it has been said before, even so it can be said again, it is paramount and overriding responsibility of every officer to take care of his men before caring for himself. Yet, many junior officers do not seem to understand that steadfast fidelity to it is required, not lip service. And of this, as Admiral Mahan would say, Mahan would say, comes much evil. The loyalty of men simply cannot be commanded when they become embittered by selfish action. So a minute your troops see that you're being selfish, or you're doing this for yourself,

• 37:15Jocko Willink?

  that's the beginning of, well, he says Admiral Mahan says, much evil. He says evil comes from that. When you start acting selfishly as a leader, evil comes from that.

• 37:28Jocko Willink?

  If an officer is on a tour with an enlisted man, he takes care of the man, he takes care that the man is accommodated as to food, shelter, medical treatment, or other prime needs before satisfying his own wants. If that means that the last meal or the last bed is gone, his duty is to get along the hard way. Boom.

• 37:49Jocko Willink?

  Take care of your people.

• 37:57Jocko Willink?

  Now, again, this is written in 1950, but even in 1950, you might think this is all hard post-World War II. Chapter eight is actually called Getting Along With People. Boom. Now, here's a real, some of this stuff is so simple, so obvious. It's so simple and so obvious that they had to write a book about it so that people could do it, because we all failed to do it. So here we go. If you like people, if you seek contact with them rather than hiding yourself in a corner, if you study your fellow men sympathetically, if you try consistently to contribute to something, to their success and happiness.

• 38:37Jocko Willink?

  Or contribute something to their success and happiness if you are reasonably generous with your thoughts and your time, if you have a partial reserve with everyone, but a seeming reserve with no one, if you work to be interesting rather than spend to be a good fellow, you will get along with your superiors, your subordinates, your orderly, your roommate, and the human race. That's all you got. If you want to get along with everybody. Now, one of the ones that I, you know, these are all pretty obvious, but one of the ones, if you have a partial reserve with everyone, but a seemingly, but a seeming reserve with no one. So what that means is you're not just flying off the handle.

• 39:22Jocko Willink?

  You, you're just reserved a little bit. You're just, you show restraint, but the restraint doesn't come across as aloofness, right? It's not so much, you know, if I come into a room and I'm going to show restraint, so I'm not going to say hi to you. I'm going to come across as aloof and you're not going to like me. But if I, but if I was to walk in and go, Echo, my brother, give me a hug, well, you're not going to like me either. Well, I will. Well, you're one of the few people. Well, that's the Hawaiian in you. Aloha spirit. Spirit, yo. So, so it's, it's that measured reserve, that measured restraint. It's balance. It's a little dichotomy there. Got to find a good, good spot in the middle. Again, getting along with people.

• 40:05Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book by the scores of thousands, precepts and platitudes have been written for the guidance of personal conduct. The odd part is that despite all of this labor, most of the frictions in modern society arise from the individual's feeling of inferiority, his false pride, his vanity, his unwillingness to yield space to any other man.

• 40:31Jocko Willink?

  Unwillingness to yield space to any other man. And I get hit on this one a lot because again, because of my personalities can be a little bit forceful. People think I'm just no compromise, my way or of a highway. And this is what they're talking about. I'm not like that. I'm open to suggestions. I'm willing to say, you know what? That's a better idea. Or you know what? I like your idea. Could we make this adjustment to it? Or yes, I can change my idea to fit with what you're saying because it makes sense. People that don't do that have unwillingness to yield space to any other man. Continuing on and his consequent urge to throw his own weight around.

• 41:10Jocko Willink?

  Right? These are just ways to not get along with people. And speaking of ways to get not get along with people, here's the 13 mistakes. The 13 mistakes. This is from the United States Coast Guard magazine. 13 pitfalls. Here we go. One, to attempt to set up your own personal, to attempt to set up your own standard of right and wrong. To try to measure the enjoyment of others by your own. To expect uniformity of opinions in the world. To fail to make allowance

• 41:47Jocko Willink?

  for inexperience. It's a good one. To endeavor to mold all dispositions alike. Not to yield on unimportant trifles. Same thing we just heard. The things that don't matter. Who cares? Let the guys do what they're gonna do on that. To look for perfection in our own actions. To worry ourselves and others about what can't be remedied. Why are you worried about that? Can't change it? Let's not worry about it. Let's just move on.

• 42:24Jocko Willink?

  Here's a big one. Not to help everybody wherever, however, whenever we can. That's a big ask. That's a big request. Hey, you know what I want you to do in your life? Help everybody however, wherever, and whenever you can. That's asking a lot. That's a big one.

• 42:44Jocko Willink?

  To consider impossible what we cannot ourselves perform. I can never do that.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 42:51Jocko Willink?

  To believe only what our finite minds can grasp. I'm gonna say that one again, to believe only what our finite minds can grasp. That's humility. To recognize that, you know, I don't understand everything in the world.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:08Jocko Willink?

  I don't understand everything in the world. It's okay. There's things beyond my comprehension, and that's okay. You gotta admit to that. Not to make allowances for the weaknesses of others.

• 43:25Jocko Willink?

  To estimate by some outside quality when it is that within which makes the man.

• 43:35Jocko Willink?

  So. Very simple.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Interesting how you can make allowances for, or according to the thirteen. Things. You can make allowances for inexperience of others, but not the weakness of others.

• 43:50Jocko Willink?

  No, it says, it says not to make, so this would be a mistake. It would be a mistake not to make allowances for the weaknesses of others.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Oh, so he said, okay, inexperience and weakness.

• 43:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. You gotta just say, oh, this, this guy's, you know, I gotta, I gotta make allowances.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Gotta flex a little bit, be flexible.

• 44:06Jocko Willink?

  And not fly off the handle.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:11Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, it suffice to say that when any officer has the inexcusable fault that he takes snap judgment on his own men, he will not be any different in his relations with all other people. And will stand in his own light for the duration of his career. Again, there's that term. If you're, if you're making snap judgments of people, you're, you're not gonna do them justice. And that's something that I was always very careful about because I've talked about this before, in the SEAL teams, your reputation is very, very important. And everybody that's done something stupid in the SEAL teams, every single person knows it. I mean, at a high level of stupidity, if you, if you do something really stupid, everybody knows about it.

• 44:56Jocko Willink?

  And then minor stupid things, a lot of people will know about it. And so you, you develop a reputation over time and...

• 45:05Jocko Willink?

  It's very easy to fall in that category of, oh, I heard this guy's, you know, kind of a turd or whatever, and not give him a chance. But I always, I always try to give people a chance and say, okay, let me see what this guy's really like.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 45:16Jocko Willink?

  And I guess I would take a little personal challenge if it was a guy that was gonna be working for me. Let's see if I can make this guy rock and roll. You know, let me see if I can make this guy into a, a, a solid seal. Can't always pull it off, but sometimes you can.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:29Jocko Willink?

  Just need that second chance. Some people go too far with the mistakes that they made, though, and they don't get a second chance. Okay, we've talked about this before, let's talk about it again. Here we go. "The man who will not listen never develops wits enough to distinguish between a bore and a sage, and therefore cannot pick the best company. The vacant stare, the drifting of eyes from the speaker to a window, or a picture, or a passing blonde, though greatly tempting in the midst of long discourse, are taken only as signs of inattention. Many a young officer called to the carpet for some trivial business

• 46:13Jocko Willink?

  has managed to square himself with his commander just by looking straight and talking straight in the few moments that decided his future." So I guess this might be something that didn't make the politically correct version. If your eyes are wandering on a passing blonde, that, why do I have this conversation? So that might have been one of those things where they changed that for the 2007 edition.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  Like what, like that's chau- chauvinistic?

• 46:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I guess that would be chauvinistic.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  It said blonde, it didn't say girl.

• 46:40Jocko Willink?

  Okay, well, maybe, good point. Maybe it's, maybe it's-

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Maybe it's like racial.

• 46:44Jocko Willink?

  Anti-brown-haired people.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:47Jocko Willink?

  Hmm.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Genetic.

• 46:50Jocko Willink?

  And this is important, though. You go into town, you're in trouble. You get there, look straight and talk straight for a few minutes with the boss. Hey, this boss, what happened? This is what I did, this is mistakes I made. That's got infinitely better chance of, of you recovering from that situation. As when you go in there, go, buh buh, buh buh, buh buh buh buh. Don't be that guy. Don't be that guy.

• 47:15Jocko Willink?

  Elsewhere in the book, a great deal has been said about the importance of the voice and of developing one's powers of conversation. Not a great deal needs to be added there, but there is no excuse for the officer who talks so that others must strain to hear what he is saying. Unless he is suffering from laryngitis. It is simple enough to keep the chin up and let the words roll out. Many persons have the bad habit of letting the voice drop at the end of a sentence. The effect on the other party is like watching a man run away from a fight. Notice I said "fight" really loud. Because I didn't want to be the guy that was dropping off on the end of a sentence.

• 47:56Jocko Willink?

  So you're just talking about speaking and how you speak and speaking clearly and not mumbling and not fading off on the end of your words. This thing is a, this thing is a goldmine, this book, actually. This should be issued to 13-year-olds nationwide, in my opinion. Maybe we could start a campaign to make that happen. Back to the book. Carefulness in the little things counts much. Men develop an aversion to the individual who cannot remember their names, their titles, or their stations. But they will warm to the person who remembers and they will overlook most of his other shortcomings.

• 48:38Jocko Willink?

  Likewise, they are won by any words of appreciation or of interest in what they're doing. So, again, how do we get along with other people? Remember their name.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  I know, bro, and that's hard, you know, bro, that's hard.

• 48:51Jocko Willink?

  There's tricks for that.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, that, see, you need tricks for it even. I mean, I'm not saying everyone needs tricks, but I'm just saying it's understood that that's hard and there's tricks out there. Because people know that that can be hard.

• 49:04Jocko Willink?

  And they also know that it's impactful.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:07Jocko Willink?

  It's impactful.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. Bro, you forget a guy's name literally two seconds after he tells you.

• 49:12Jocko Willink?

  Unless you, unless you make it a point to command yourself to remember it.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 49:17Jocko Willink?

  It's tricky.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:18Jocko Willink?

  It's tricky. I've, I'm, I knew a guy that was a, a really good leader, but he would go into a room of twenty-five people. And he would, he would go over the top and when he got done, he would say, I know all your names now.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:31Jocko Willink?

  Go name every single one of them.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, Henry does that sometimes. It's, it's pretty impressive.

• 49:35Jocko Willink?

  Legit. I bet Henry's got some little trick to do it.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:40Jocko Willink?

  You, you, oh, your name is Echo. Cool. I look at you and I, I see a big E on your face.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 49:46Jocko Willink?

  Now I remember.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, this, yeah, it's interesting. But man, sometimes you can be like, hey, I'm gonna make it a point to remember that. One guy. I'm gonna make it a point to remember this guy's name. He'll be like, hey, my name's John. You'd be like, hey, uh, Josh. Uh, you, you, you'll forget it quick sometimes. It's weird, man.

• 50:02Jocko Willink?

  Hmm. Not good. Gotta remember those names. Gotta lock them in.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  I think if you take a certain amount of pride in doing that, I think that helps a lot.

• 50:09Jocko Willink?

  Step number one. Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:11Jocko Willink?

  Take pride in your job.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  I'm gonna try that.

• 50:14Jocko Willink?

  Now, this is, this is interesting little dig here. It's actually kind of funny.

• 50:20Jocko Willink?

  He's basically going back and saying that all this information about getting along with other people, he's saying, he's kind of recapping the whole thing to close it out. Back to the book, it isn't lengthy advice which is needed on this subject, since a man commissioned is considered to have graduated from at least the kindergarten of good manners. What counts is simply caring about it and not, not to be ingratiating to other people, but for the sake of one's own dignity and self-respect. None of the oracles on winning friends and influencing people have said it in those few words, and if they had, there would have been no books to sell. So there's a little shot, little shot on, uh, winning friends and influencing people.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Wait, when was that one written?

• 51:06Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that, that was written, I don't know what the date, dates, but that's written a long time ago.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Dang, okay.

• 51:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. No, that's, that's turn of the century.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  It's old school.

• 51:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, old school.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:18Jocko Willink?

  Talking about now we're going to leader leaders and leadership and what type of men are leaders? Those who come forward to fill these same places and to command them with equal or greater authority and competence will not be plaster saints. So if you remember in the beginning at the, you know, he goes on this thing about how you you you're not going to swear and you're going to be not going to talk bad about women. He's given some leeway now to that. Saying they're not going to be plaster saints laden with all human virtue, spotless in character and fit to be anointed with a Superman legend. By some future parson weems.

• 51:56Jocko Willink?

  They will be men with a human quality and a strong belief in the United States and the goodness of a free society. They will have some of the average man's faults and maybe a few of his vices. But certainly they will possess the qualities of courage, creative intelligence and physical fitness. In more than average measure.

• 52:24Jocko Willink?

  So again, there's not as it's not quite as strict as he laid out in the beginning.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz it's like remember in train you watch Training Day? Remember that Denzel and?

• 52:35Jocko Willink?

  I saw part of it.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there. The little concept is in there where he said, you gotta have a little dirt on you so they can trust you.

• 52:45Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  So basically if you're too squeaky clean, well, you know, like.

• 52:49Jocko Willink?

  There's all kinds of heroes that are not squeaky.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Well, in training.

• 52:52Jocko Willink?

  Leaders that that aren't. I would say there's more heroes that aren't squeaky clean.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're real person.

• 52:57Jocko Willink?

  Plenty of leaders that aren't squeaky clean and they're great leaders.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:01Jocko Willink?

  And that's what they're giving that up in this book is saying, look, not gonna be a plaster saint. Gonna be a person gonna have faults, gonna have weaknesses, gonna have vices, gonna have dirt.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, for the record, the Training Day guys were all corrupt. So I'm just saying it's maybe not that.

• 53:18Jocko Willink?

  They had a little too much dirt.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 53:20Jocko Willink?

  Alright, so now we're talking about Grant, General Grant, Civil War general and beset by human failings. He could not look impressive. Average though he was in many things, there was nothing average about the strong way in which he took hold. Applying massive common sense to the complex problems of the field.

• 53:44Jocko Willink?

  That is why he is worth close regard. His virtues as a military leader were of the simpler sort, which plain men may understand and hope to emulate. He was direct in manner. He never intrigued. His speech was homely. He was approachable. His mind never deviated from the object. Though a stubborn man, he was always willing to listen to his subordinates. And I love this one right here. He never adhered to a plan obstinately, but nothing could induce him to forsake the idea behind the plan. So, look, I'm not gonna, here's my idea and I'm gonna hold to that idea because it's good. But the plan that's gonna get us there, I'm not too worried about that.

• 54:27Jocko Willink?

  I'm not gonna hold on to that and, and let it drag me into the ground. Back to the book. In the military service, services, though there are niches for the pedant, character is at all times at least as vital as intellect. So, pedant is like overly educated type scenario. You're, you're, you're pedantic, right? And the main rewards go to him who can make other men feel toughened as well as elevated. Here's some traits here. Quiet resolution. The hardyhood to take risks.

• 55:09Jocko Willink?

  The will to take full responsibility for decisions. The readiness to share its rewards with subordinates. This is obviously extreme ownership and part of extreme ownership is when you, something goes well, you don't own that part, you give that away. And equal readiness to take the blame when things go adversely. Boom. The nerve to survive storm and disappointment and to face towards each new day with the score sheet wiped clean. Neither dwelling on one's successes nor accepting discouragement from one's failures.

• 55:53Jocko Willink?

  Like I said, this book should be issued to 13 year old. Yeah. This is a really good book, by the way. Yeah. I figured you'd dig this one. I I used a lot of highlighter on this one. I've had this book for a long time. I couldn't. It's funny, when I read it this time, I hadn't read it in so long that I it was almost like I was reading it again. I pretty much had forgotten most of it. And a lot of it, you know, I subconsciously was part been probably part of my game for a long time. I can't tell, though. I can't tell what I just, what I buried, what what was a seed that grew.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:29Jocko Willink?

  Probably there's some ideas in here that were seeds of my thought.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would imagine so that that's not the kind of book where it's like, oh, yeah, let me memorize all this, you know? It's more like, oh, shoot, I gotta I gotta kind of ingest this idea.

• 56:41Jocko Willink?

  And here's the straight up truth. When somebody gave me this book, I probably read ten pages of it and said, oh, this is pretty cool. Put it in my locker and then went out and worked out and forgot about it for the next fifteen years. So it's not, I didn't, you know, this, this, this current Jocko, we'll call it, where I can overlay and and bring in, it's like jujitsu, when, you know, when you're good at jujitsu? If you're a, if you're a brown belt, a purple belt, a black belt in jujitsu, somebody can show you a move and you can assimilate it really quickly and you go, oh, yeah, what you need to do is this. Well, I was a white belt before in this stuff. And so when I'd read it, it it kind of made sense, but it was, it was, it was, didn't make as much sense as that.

• 57:25Jocko Willink?

  When I read this stuff now, it's like I totally understand it at a deeper level. And so it's way more impactful for me.

• 57:38Jocko Willink?

  People always asking me about this one as well. Back to the book. To speak of the importance of a sense of humor would be unavailing. If it were not that what cramps so many men isn't that they are by nature humorless, but that they are hesitant to exercise what humor they possess.

• 57:59Jocko Willink?

  Within the military profession, it is as unwise to let the muscles go soft and to spare the mind the strain of original thinking. Great humor has always been in the military tradition. People ask, for some reason, people ask me about humor a lot. Hey, isn't it good for an officer to, or isn't it good for a leader to tell jokes? And like, yes, it is. And that's why I always, whenever there's something funny in the war books that we read, I always try and capture that so that people realize that these guys are out there and they keep that sense of humor going all the time.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I guess it doesn't really necessarily mean telling jokes all the time, but just like.

• 58:36Jocko Willink?

  Levity.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel, that's funny. I'm gonna, you know.

• 58:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. Just having a good time, making, making light of these miserable situations, for sure. Said Admiral, this is going into the next chapter, which is called Maine Springs of Leadership. Said Admiral Forrest P. Sherman, Chief of Naval Operations, I concur that we can take average good men and by proper training, develop in them the essential initiative, constant confidence, and magnetism, which are necessary in leadership. I believe that these qualities are present in the average man to a degree that he can

• 59:19Jocko Willink?

  be made a good leader if his native qualities are properly developed. Whether or not he becomes a great leader depends upon whether or not he possesses that extra initiative, magnetism, moral courage, and force, which makes the difference between the average man and the above average man. Said General C.B. Gates, Commandant of the Marine Corps, leadership is intangible, hard to measure, and difficult to describe. Its qualities would seem to stem from many factors, but certainly, they must include a measure of inherent ability to control and direct. Self-confidence based on expert knowledge, initiative, loyalty, pride, and sense of responsibility.

• 1:00:03Jocko Willink?

  Inherent ability obviously cannot be instilled, but that which is latent or dormant can be developed.

• 1:00:12Jocko Willink?

  Other ingredients can be acquired. They are not easily taught or easily learned, but leaders can be and can be and are made. The average good man in our service is and must be considered a potential leader. So there you go to that question. It's the same answer that I give basically all the time when people ask me if leaders are born or made. There's the answer from these two guys. They agree with me. Or should I say, I agree with them. They're senior to me. But, but look, you got certain traits. You can take, I always say, look, you can take someone that's an okay leader and make him a better leader. You can take a good leader and make him an outstanding leader, an outstanding leader. You can make him an epic leader.

• 1:00:56Jocko Willink?

  Because you can improve these things. You can learn about these things. The one person that you can't make any better is the person that's not humble. They're not going to get any better because they can't be coached. Standing in his own light. Because he's standing in his own light. Maybe we'll bring that back. Yeah, man. Bringing that back.

• 1:01:15Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book and before I go back to the book. This is another thing I get asked about a lot. Is people ask me because they know that I work a lot. They know that I get after it, right? And they ask, and they ask me about, you know, how do you, how do you do with your family? You've got a family because I've got four children and a wife. Sure. And a goldfish. Okay.

• 1:01:40Jocko Willink?

  Icicle. That's the name. That's the name. I know. So I got to give, you know, to the family, right? So people say, hey, how do you, how do you balance? So here we go back to the book. Personal advancement within any worthwhile system requires some sacrifice of leisure. And more careful attention to the better organization of one's working routine. But that does not entail heroic self-sacrifice or forfeiting of any of life's truly enduring rewards. It means putting the completion of work ahead of golf.

• 1:02:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so, so, so often you see people that, you know, you're just, I'm not gonna work myself to death. Okay, are you gonna play golf to death? Cause that's apparently what you're trying to do here, right? But, yeah, you gotta find balance. You gotta find balance, especially, you know, when he's talking about life's truly enduring rewards. That's talking about your family and the things that you achieve outside of the work world.

• 1:02:49Jocko Willink?

  Abby Dimnet, Abby, Abby Dimnet was a priest, I'm pretty sure a priest, and wrote a book called The Art of Thinking. And he's quoted here in this book. He said, "Concentration is supposed to be exceptional only because people do not try, and in this, as so many things, starve within an inch of plenty." Ooh, I like that quote. Starve within an inch of plenty. You're almost there. Almost there. Almost got plenty, but you're gonna starve to death, right there. Within an inch. Why? Cause you, you failed to concentrate. You failed to focus, and that's what happens.

• 1:03:36Jocko Willink?

  Oh, and, well, this is, this is just awesome. Here we go. "There is, of course, that commonest of excuses for rejecting the difficult and taking life easy. I haven't time. But for the man who keeps his mind on the object, there is always time. Figure it out. About us in the services daily, we see busy men who somehow manage to find time for whatever is worth doing. While at the adjoining desks are others with abundant leisure who can't find time for anything.

• 1:04:15Jocko Willink?

  When something important requires doing, it is usually the busy man who gets the call."

• 1:04:24Jocko Willink?

  Haven't got time for that, huh? There's always time.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:27Jocko Willink?

  Always time.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  And how can you ever have time if you don't take time?

• 1:04:34Jocko Willink?

  That sounds cool, but I don't know what it means. Expand.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Ah, who has time? Ah, but who, ah, how can you ever have time if you don't take?

• 1:04:42Jocko Willink?

  Oh, so you're gonna take, okay, okay, okay.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  The matrix.

• 1:04:45Jocko Willink?

  Is that where it's from?

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  The mate, uh, like part two or something like that. Just some.

• 1:04:49Jocko Willink?

  There was a part two to that movie?

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Bro, I think there was like a part three too. Anyway, that was, that was a good one. It's true though. You know how like guys will be like, hey, I wanna, um, I wanna get in like really good shape or something like this. I wanna get like real strong or whatever. I was like, oh, okay. Gonna work out like this many, I don't have like time to. Well, then you don't have time then. You then you can't get in shape. It's like saying I don't have the inclination. It's more or less the same thing. I don't have the time.

• 1:05:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I was with one of my buddies and we were counseling someone. And my buddy said, you don't care about this. And the guy says, no, no, I do care. And he said, well, why can't you show up on time? If you cared, you would show up on time.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:39Jocko Willink?

  And case closed, you're fired. That was that. I was like, you know what? Let's just stop talking because we're done. We're done because it's a hundred percent accurate.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  So true, so true. So as you probably know, I come from a long line of late.

• 1:05:52Jocko Willink?

  Yes, we've, we've discussed that before.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  So I kinda analyzed it where there was a time where I felt like dang, I just, I don't know. I just can't be on time. It's like, it's like almost like this, like a mental or physical block almost is what it felt like. But then.

• 1:06:08Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  When I really analyzed.

• 1:06:11Jocko Willink?

  When you really realized that you were just lazy.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  No, I'm not lazy. It wasn't important, just like I was saying. And this is what, so let's say work, for example. I was late literally more times than I was on time at work. When I worked on the nightclub. Well, I, I did a good enough job.

• 1:06:26Jocko Willink?

  I would have fired you and then rehired you so I could fire you again. Just so I could take pleasure in it.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Ah, you, it probably would have been a good idea. Nonetheless, so when I analyzed it, I was like, wait, why am I late? Why don't I get prepared the night before or whatever it takes to be on time every single time? And just like, it's not important. Like, why would I spend my off work time preparing to go be at work?

• 1:06:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  I should be resting or. That's my off time.

• 1:06:53Jocko Willink?

  Watching a little bit more television.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  TV or yeah, whatever. Not working.

• 1:06:57Jocko Willink?

  I can squeeze in another episode of this program.

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Exactly right. Not working. Why should I spend off work time doing work stuff like the I'm not getting paid for kind of thing, you know, it's not important.

• 1:07:08Jocko Willink?

  And that's goes back to what this whole, this whole book, starting off with the attitude of trying to do a good job all the time. And actually, somebody brought that up and somebody sent me a direct message. And this was a great point that I didn't think about. We got asked another question on the podcast about, hey, if you're getting told to go to a meeting that you're not going to get paid for, hey, remember that conversation? This guy wrote me and said, hey, you know, legally, that that's illegal. If you're on an hourly wage. So that's a great point that I didn't think of. I didn't think of it from a HR perspective. But that's a good point. Now you've got people that you're breaking the law. So I kind of assumed that these guys were not being specifically compensated, but that they, they were maybe salaried employees that they were, but I could be wrong. And if those people are hourly, now you, now you, now you've got

• 1:07:51Jocko Willink?

  to go to the boss and say, hey, boss, I, I want to get this meeting going, but what you're doing to us and what you're doing to these guys is illegal.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:59Jocko Willink?

  Or, you know, maybe the, the manager, a lot of times managers are salaried and the workers are hourly. So he would need to go, look, I'll come to the meeting because I'm on salary. It's all good with me. I'm here to win.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:09Jocko Willink?

  But the guys, I can't bring them in here unless you want to be looking at a, at a labor lawsuit. You in the game for that, boss? Because I'm not.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:16Jocko Willink?

  That's going to cost our company money. It's going to make us look bad. Let's, let's do this another way.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:20Jocko Willink?

  Boom.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  But that is a different element to the whole, like the point as far as what you're talking, where, what you're talking about, like if something's like not important versus if it is important. Like it doesn't necessarily go for just work. That's why it goes for anything. Like if you're late to anything, like if you, if you like this podcast, I'm rolling in late every single time. It's, it's obviously because being on time is not important. And that leads into this podcast in one way or another. What we're about to do isn't important enough.

• 1:08:48Jocko Willink?

  That's why you're on time, because it is important to you.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:08:52Jocko Willink?

  Well, I'm glad because it's important to me too.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  And I will spend off my quote unquote free time doing stuff to prepare for, you know, the on time stuff.

• 1:09:02Jocko Willink?

  Well, that's good. Otherwise you'd be getting fired.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  I'm just using this as a hype.

• 1:09:08Jocko Willink?

  Give me another echo, Charles. You got a twin brother, right? No one even know the difference.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  Good point.

• 1:09:14Jocko Willink?

  Although he probably genetically has the same problem.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I told you, we come from a long line. Now, he knows the importance of, you know. And it's a, and it's a sign of disrespect too, by the way.

• 1:09:25Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  It's like saying, not only do I not think what we're, what we've planned to do or agreed to do and all this time stuff. Not only do I not think that's important, I don't respect how much you think it's important. That's what you're saying.

• 1:09:38Jocko Willink?

  And you don't respect my time?

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  Nope, not at all. Not at all.

• 1:09:41Jocko Willink?

  Be on time.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:09:43Jocko Willink?

  And make time. Take time.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  If, yeah, if you want to have time, you gotta take time.

• 1:09:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and that's, that's what so I like about this guy's actually making fun of people that say, I haven't got time. Because for the man who keeps his mind on the object, there is always time.

• 1:10:06Jocko Willink?

  Next section says, "Much is conveyed in a few, in few words in army field forces, brief on practical concepts of leadership. It is stressed therein that the preeminent quality which all great commanders have owned in common is a positiveness of manner and of viewpoint. The power to concentrate on means to a given end to the exclusion of exaggerated fears of the obstacles which lie athwart the course.

• 1:10:42Jocko Willink?

  Every word of that should be underscored and above all, what it says about the need for affirmative thinking and concentrating on how things can be done. This is the, you always hear about this, you always hear about this person, the person that says, when you go to them and say, hey, can we do this? They're, they're always looking for a way to say no. A reason why something can't happen instead of, no, we can do that. We can make that happen. We can, we can figure out a way. That's what we're looking for.

• 1:11:11Jocko Willink?

  Next section. Those. Oh, and this section is actually the same topic of what this podcast is the topic of, and that is human nature.

• 1:11:26Jocko Willink?

  Those who had the chance to study American men under the terrible rigor of Japanese imprisonment during World War II gave an analysis that in certain of the prisoners, character and sanity with it held fast against every circumstance. In others, some of whom had been well-educated and came from gentle homes, the brute instinct was as uppermost as in an East African cannibal.

• 1:11:57Jocko Willink?

  And when they say brute instinct, that's the person that just loses and goes to the animal instincts.

• 1:12:04Jocko Willink?

  From such crucibles as these, even more than from the remittent stresses of combat and war, comes the clearest light on the inner nature of man insofar as it needs to be understood by the officer who may someday lead a force into battle. Human nature.

• 1:12:30Jocko Willink?

  One of the things that he says about human nature in here is goodwill and weakness may be combined in one man, bad will and strength in another. High moral leading can lift the first man to excel himself. It will not reform the other. But there is no other sensible rule than that all men will be approached with trust and treated as trustworthy until proved otherwise beyond reasonable doubt.

• 1:13:04Jocko Willink?

  So he's thrown out the trust. This is a little bit opposite. I've talked about it. It was like, actually, I should take that back. Remember one time on the podcast, I said, look, I don't have a high expectation of people when I meet them.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:15Jocko Willink?

  And I, I hold that true to this day. But I don't straight up not trust them as a human.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:22Jocko Willink?

  There's a difference there.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:13:23Jocko Willink?

  I think there's a difference. I think I feel that way.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  There is a, yeah, and, and it's not an obvious difference, but it's like the difference between I don't have a high expectation of somebody and versus I have a low expectation of person.

• 1:13:35Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  Somebody. So yeah, but it does sound the same though. It sounds the same, you know, if you don't have a high expectation, then what kind of expectation do you have? Oh, obviously a low one. Right. Exactly. Right.

• 1:13:44Jocko Willink?

  Maybe just a, maybe just a neutral one.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  Right. Like I'm not going to put any expectations. I'm not expecting you to do a bunch of hero, you know, I don't have any expectations.

• 1:13:53Jocko Willink?

  Just neutral.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:54Jocko Willink?

  I think I come, come in with a neutral attitude on that one.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:58Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. Men do not achieve a great solidarity or preserve it simply by being together. Their mutual bonds are forged only by doing together that which they have been convinced is constructive.

• 1:14:14Jocko Willink?

  The absence of a common purpose is the chief source of unhappiness in any collection of individuals. Lacking it and the common standard of justice, which is one of its chief agents. Men become more and more separate units, each fighting for his own rights. This is why you gotta have that common purpose. This is why that commander's intent is so important. This is why it's important that everyone has to understand why they're doing what they're doing.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:44Jocko Willink?

  They have to understand the strategic goal that you're trying to meet as a company, as a business, as a team, as a platoon.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  And as a person in like, a lot of people, they go into straight up depression because I mean, applied to a grander skill, if they don't see a purpose in their life.

• 1:15:01Jocko Willink?

  Yep. That is true.

• 1:15:05Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, whatever his rank, it is impossible for any man to lead if he is himself running behind. This bespeaks the need of constant study, the constant use of one's personal powers, and the exercise of the imagination. As men advance, that which was good soon ceases to be good, simply because something better is possible. You got to evolve. You got to continue to evolve, you got to continue to improve yourself. History confirms, and a study of the workings of the human mind supports one proposition,

• 1:15:48Jocko Willink?

  which many of the great captains of war have accepted as a truism. There are no bad troops, there are only bad leaders.

• 1:16:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:16:03Jocko Willink?

  It's here. Napoleon said, Napoleon said, there's no bad colonels, only bad regiments. Hackworth said the same thing. No bad team, I think he said, no bad troops, only bad officers. In the book that Leif and I wrote, no bad teams, only bad leaders. So, very common, and very true. Stands the test of time. You know, there's a reason why Napoleon thought that. There's a reason why S.L.A. Marshall said that. There's a reason why Hackworth said that. There's a reason why Leif and I put that in the book. Cause that is true. And the minute you, if you're in a leadership position, the minute that you accept that fact, is the minute you step forward to becoming a better leader.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:47Jocko Willink?

  Cause as soon as you're blaming it on other people, you're, you're, you're, you're just not going to make it back. Oh, my team sucks. You suck.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  Right. So it's, I don't know if you'd call this irony or what, but, okay, no bad teams, only bad leaders. So if you're like, wait, that's not true. Well, guess what?

• 1:17:03Jocko Willink?

  You're a bad leader.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:07Jocko Willink?

  It's like a catch 22.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Or what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Actually, I don't think that's it.

• 1:17:15Jocko Willink?

  All right, this is awesome. Here we go. Back to the book. And this, actually, this section here has gone to group nature. So we've gone from human nature to group nature. Back to the book. Among the commonest of experiences in war is to witness troops doing nothing, or worse, doing the wrong thing without one commanding voice being raised to give them direction. In such circumstance, any man who has the nerve and presence to step forward and give them an intelligent order in a manner indicating that he expects to be

• 1:17:54Jocko Willink?

  obeyed will be accepted as a leader and will be given their support. Did you hear that?

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:18:01Jocko Willink?

  That's all it is. Who's gonna step up? Who's gonna have the nerve and the presence to step up and give an intelligent order that you believe in and that you believe will be followed on? And that you expect will be obeyed, you'll be obeyed. So again, I hear all these people saying, well, you know, I'm not in the senior position, therefore I can't do anything. Wrong. Actually, you can. Step up and lead.

• 1:18:25Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. For this reason, under the conditions of modern battle, the coherence of any military body comes not only of men being articulate all down the line,

• 1:18:37Jocko Willink?

  but of building up the dynamic power in each individual.

• 1:18:42Jocko Willink?

  It is a thoroughly sound exercise in any unit to give every man a chance to take charge and give orders in drill or other limited exercises once he has learned what the orders mean. By the same token, it is good practice for the junior leader to displace a file, that means just one of the guys, to displace a file in a training exercise and become commanded for a time to sharpen his own perspective.

• 1:19:13Jocko Willink?

  It's good for the junior guys to step up into leadership positions and lead. It's good for the leaders to go and be one of the boys in the platoon. And I got really lucky because I was a prior, what's called a prior enlisted guy, a Mustang officer. So I spent my first eight years in the SEAL teams as a, I was a guy in the, I was one of the files. So I knew what it was like when a leader didn't tell you what was going on. I knew what it was like when you had a good leader.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:38Jocko Willink?

  So when I stepped up into those leadership positions, I could, I knew at least what not to do. And I knew what I would try and do to be a good leader.

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like the curse of knowledge, right? Like you don't, curse of knowledge is when like you can't see it from some inexperienced person's point of view, you know? And so you don't really have that, you know, because you've been the inexperienced. You can just draw on those memories, you know, to have that perspective, that full perspective.

• 1:20:02Jocko Willink?

  I know what it's like to be one of the worst things. You're at the end of a 16 man SEAL platoon patrolling through the night and you just have no idea where you are. You have no idea how far the target is away. You have no idea when you're going to stop. You have no idea, you have no idea of anything. You're just walking like a, like a miserable boots, boots, boots, boots. That's what you're getting the zone of. It's just the worst. So when I was a platoon commander, when I was a squad leader, everybody, I tried with everything I had to make sure everyone knew what's going on.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Jocko Willink?

  All the time because I never wanted my guys to be thinking, what is happening? What are we doing?

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:37Jocko Willink?

  That's good.

• 1:20:42Jocko Willink?

  Progress comes of making the most of our strengths rather than looking for ways to repair weaknesses. This is true in things both large and small. The platoon leader who permits himself to be bedeviled by the file who won't or can't keep step, cannot do justice to the ambitions of the 10 strongest men beneath him, upon whom the life of the formation would depend come an emergency.

• 1:21:08Jocko Willink?

  To nourish and encourage the top rather than to concentrate effort and exhaust nerves and trying to correct a few least likely prospects is the healthy way of growth within military organization. Take care of your top people, put your focus and energy there. And I was, you know, gonna give some time to the guys that are struggling, try and help them out, but let's not focus on them. They're not gonna make or break you. So those leaders that you wanna, you wanna develop, you wanna, you got a good seed that's starting to grow, water that seed. Don't worry about that thing over there in the corner that's not doing anything.

• 1:21:46Jocko Willink?

  It is a good, this is classic, it is a sign of a good level of discipline in command when orders are given and faithfully carried out. But it is a sign of a vastly superior condition when the men are prepared to demand those orders, which they know the situation requires if it is to be helped. No competent subordinate sits around waiting for someone else to give impulse to movement if he senses, if his senses tell him that things are going to pot. He either suggests a course of action to his superior or asks authority to execute it on his own, or in the more desperate circumstances of the battlefield, gives orders on his own initiative.

• 1:22:33Jocko Willink?

  Decentralized command. Everybody's a leader. Everybody steps up and makes things happen.

• 1:22:41Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, General Dwight D Eisenhower was thinking on these things when he said during World War II, "There is among the mass of individuals who carry rifles in war, a great amount of ingenuity and efficiency. If men can talk naturally to their officers, the product of their resourcefulness becomes available to all."

• 1:23:03Jocko Willink?

  So as long as you can, as long as your guys feel comfortable talking to you, you're gonna have access to all their ideas and all their ingenuity. Back to the book, "But the art of open communication requires both receiving and ending, and the besetting problem is to get officers to talk naturally to men."

• 1:23:23Jocko Willink?

  Develop the relationships with the troops is what you gotta do.

• 1:23:27Jocko Willink?

  Another section here at all training, all training at all levels has a dual object to develop us all as leaders of men and as followers of leaders. Dichotomy, gotta be a leader, gotta be a follower.

• 1:23:46Speaker 01

  It's like your Twitter thing, you know, your Twitter bio, leader, follower.

• 1:23:50Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Speaker, listener. A lot of dichotomy.

• 1:23:53Jocko Willink?

  Writer, reader.

• 1:23:54Speaker 01

  Writer, reader, yeah, exactly.

• 1:23:55Jocko Willink?

  That is, that is, there's a dichotomy there.

• 1:23:59Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, "The paralysis which comes of fear can be lifted only through the resumption of action which will again give individuals the feeling of organization." So this is interesting. We remember that Joe Owen, when he was in Korea, in the coldest war, in, in colder than hell, he's freezing and he, there's shooting starts and he's got his own procedure of how he's going to overcome the fear. He's going to do, he's going to take action. And it's something that I've said on here a bunch of times. Are you afraid of something? Take action, step into it. So what this, what this is saying is the same thing, but not on an individual level, but on a group level.

• 1:24:41Jocko Willink?

  Cause we're talking about group nature here and it's the same thing as you do with an individual, you do with the group. So listen to this again. "The paralysis which comes of fear can be lifted only through the resumption of action which will again give the individuals feeling of organization." This does not mean ordering a bayonet charge or firing a volley at such and such a clock. It may mean only patting one man on the back, talking it up to a couple of others, sending someone out to find a flank or turning ones, or turning oneself to dig in while passing the word to others to do likewise. This is action in the realist sense of the term.

• 1:25:24Jocko Willink?

  Out of reinvigorating men toward the taking of many small actions develops the possibility of large and decisive action. The unit must first find itself before doing an effective job of finding the enemy. Out of those acts which are incidental to the establishing of an order, the leader reaffirms his own power of decision. So, that's beautiful advice, beautiful advice, just like you do with yourself. You're afraid of something, take action, step into it. You've got your group and everyone's starting to get scared and overwhelmed, let's take some action. Hey guys, dig in. Hey guys, online. Whatever that order's gonna be, that's that, it may not solve the problem, but it regains

• 1:26:09Jocko Willink?

  your stability as a team. And now you can move forward. This next section is subtitled "Environment." Back to the book, "It is only to the man who is burdened with unnecessary and exaggerated fears and who mistakes for fancied security the privilege of sitting quietly in one place that the uprooting which comes with war is demoralizing." The natural officer sees it as an hour of opportunity.

• 1:26:52Jocko Willink?

  And though he may not like anything else about war, he at least relishes the strong feeling of personal contention which always develops when there are many openings inviting many men. As one WWII commander expressed it, "During war, the ball is always kicking around loose in the middle of the field, and any man who has the will may pick it up and run with it."

• 1:27:27Jocko Willink?

  That's true about life. So many opportunities out there. Who's gonna pick it up and run with it becomes the question.

• 1:27:36Jocko Willink?

  Now we get into touching back a little bit on to some discipline. Back to the book, when men are given absolute freedom, with no compulsion upon them but to eat and sleep, as with a group of South Sea savages, there can be no strong uniting bond between them.

• 1:28:03Jocko Willink?

  Absolute freedom doesn't get you what you want. There's gotta be a counter to that and that counters discipline. I suppose that's another politically incorrect thing that we've run into the book a couple of times. The South Sea savages. Who's that?

• 1:28:17Jocko Willink?

  Technically. Probably natives from the South Sea.

• 1:28:21Jocko Willink?

  I guess, yes, maybe. In fact, that is who it is. Okay, alright, there you go. No offense intended.

• 1:28:31Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, in officership, there is simply no substitute for personal reconnaissance, nor any other technique that in the long run will have half its value. So when he's talking about personal reconnaissance here, he's not talking about going to reconnaissance of an enemy position. He's talking about going down and reconnoicing, doing reconnaissance within your own element, talking to your peoples, what he's talking about here. He's talking about that habit of of personal reconnaissance. Once formed, the habit of getting down to the roots of organization, of seeing with one's own eyes what is taking place, of measuring it against one's own scale of values,

• 1:29:14Jocko Willink?

  of ordering such changes as are needed, and of following through to make certain that the changes are made, becomes the mainspring of all efficient command action. In battle, there is no other way to be sure. In training, there is no better way to move towards self-assurance. So get down there, get in the weeds sometimes, see what's going on on the front lines. Talk to your people.

• 1:29:47Jocko Willink?

  This section talks about the mission. When an order is given, what are the responsibilities of the man who receives it? In sequence, these: to be certain that he understands what is required; to examine and organize his resources as promptly as possible; to fully inform his subordinates upon these points; to execute the order without waste of time or means; to call for support if events prove that his means are inadequate; to fill up the spaces in the orders if there are developments which had not been anticipated;

• 1:30:24Jocko Willink?

  when the detail is complete, to prepare to go on to something else.

• 1:30:29Jocko Willink?

  Straightforward. Lieutenant General Sir Frederick Morgan, who planned the invasion of Normandy, put the matter this way: "When setting out on any enterprise, it is well to ask oneself three questions: To whom is one responsible? For what precisely is one responsible? What are the means at disposal for discharging this responsibility?" Nothing so warms the heart of a superior as that, on giving an order, he sees his subordinate salute and say, "Yes, sir", then about face and proceed to carry it out to the hilt, without faltering or looking back.

• 1:31:12Jocko Willink?

  This is the kind of a man that a commander will choose to have with him every time, and that he will recommend for first advancement. On the other hand, clarification of the object is not only a right, but a duty, and it cuts both ways. So if you don't understand, you have the duty to ask for clarification. Orders are not always clear, and no superior is on firm ground when he is impatient of questions which are to the point or resentful of the man who asks him. I say this all the time: if your subordinate says, "Hey, why are we doing this?", and you get angry, you're wrong. You should be happy that your subordinate is asking why.

• 1:31:55Jocko Willink?

  But it is natural that he will be doubtful of the man whose words show either that he hasn't heard or is concerned mainly with irrelevancies.

• 1:32:06Jocko Willink?

  The cultivation of the habit of careful, concentrated listening and of collected thought in reading into any problem is principal portal to successful officership.

• 1:32:21Jocko Willink?

  From the pen of General Eisenhower comes these words. "The commander's success will be measured more by his ability to lead than by his adherence to fixed notions.

• 1:32:36Jocko Willink?

  Thus, in the conduct of operations not less than in the execution of orders, it is necessary that the mind remain plastic and impressionable." Again, the idea of the military man is this person that can't change and is closed mind. It's wrong. Now, there are military leaders like that.

• 1:32:59Jocko Willink?

  And it's unfortunate. They're not good. You've got to have the flexible mind. You've got to have the plastic mind.

• 1:33:07Jocko Willink?

  "Obedience is not the product of fear but of understanding, and understanding is based on knowledge. So you've got to make sure that your troops understand what's going on, so they know what's going on, so they can obey properly, not out of fear."

• 1:33:22Jocko Willink?

  "To grasp the spirit of orders is not less important than to accept them cheerfully and keep faith with the contract. But the letter of an instruction does not relieve him who receives it from the obligation to exercise common sense." You get told to do something, you've still got to do, you've still got to hold common sense. In the Carolina maneuvers of 1941, a soldier stood at a road intersection for three days and nights directing civilian traffic, simply because the man who put him there had forgotten all about it. Though he was praised at the time, he was hardly a shining example to hold up to the troops.

• 1:34:07Jocko Willink?

  Moving into the next chapter, which the name of the chapter is Discipline.

• 1:34:19Jocko Willink?

  This is, you're gonna recognize this one. Once a man condones remisses, his own belief and discipline begins to wither. The officer who tolerates slackness in the dress of his men soon ceases to tend his own appearance. And if he is not called to account, his sloppy habits will shortly begin to inflict his superior. There's only one correct way to wear the uniform. When any deviations in dress are condoned within the services, the way is open to the destruction of all uniformity and unity.

• 1:34:58Jocko Willink?

  It's not what you preach, it's what you tolerate. You condone remisses.

• 1:35:04Jocko Willink?

  You're opening, now, this might be a little bit extreme. When he says that when you're out of uniform or you allow these units, so the way is open to the destruction of all uniformity and unity. I'm not sure I a hundred percent agree with that. And I was always very pro-uniform and making sure that guys were squared away in their uniforms. I was probably the, one of the most stringent in the SEAL teams. In the SEAL teams is not, uniforms are not, we're not real good at wearing uniforms and looking good in uniforms and being squared away in uniforms. So it's kinda hard for me to agree that that opens up the way for the destruction of all uniformity. But, the lesson here is,

• 1:35:44Jocko Willink?

  is more about the uniforms, it's more about just, it's not what you preach, it's what you tolerate.

• 1:35:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that slippery slope situation.

• 1:35:51Jocko Willink?

  Yes, it is.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Well, opening the way isn't necessarily ensuring something.

• 1:35:57Jocko Willink?

  True, true, true, I'll give it to you.

• 1:35:59Speaker 01

  Technically.

• 1:36:01Jocko Willink?

  You get me on the technicality sometimes, that's fine. I'm okay with that. I'm plastic in my mind, I can, I can accept that.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  Plastic, you know how some people say plastic, like, oh, that guy's plastic, meaning like he's fake or something like that? This is more like, like plasticity.

• 1:36:15Jocko Willink?

  Yes, absolutely. Written in 1950 before, plastic was everything that we used.

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:23Jocko Willink?

  I used to have this theory that anything that was made of metal was better. They'd just make everything of metal. I wanted to make everything that was made metal.

• 1:36:32Speaker 01

  Right, don't they say stuff, that same thing about like food and bacon, like anything bacon is better?

• 1:36:37Jocko Willink?

  Similar.

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  It's the same kinda thing.

• 1:36:39Jocko Willink?

  Could be correct. Bacon's good.

• 1:36:44Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, "No leader ever fails his men, nor will they fail him, who leads them in respect for the disciplined life." Between these two things, discipline in itself and a personal faith in the military value of discipline, lies all the difference between military maturity and mediocrity. A salute from an unwilling man is as meaningless as the moving of a leaf on a tree.

• 1:37:14Jocko Willink?

  It is a sign only that the subject has been caught by a gust of wind, but a salute from the man who takes pride in the gesture because he feels privileged to wear the uniform of the United States, having found the service good, is the epitome of military virtue.

• 1:37:36Jocko Willink?

  Until men are severely tried, there is no conclusive test of their discipline, nor proof that their training at arms is satisfying a legitimate military end.

• 1:37:51Jocko Willink?

  Military forces remain relatively undisciplined until physically toughened and mentally conditioned to unusual exertion. Consider the road march.

• 1:38:02Jocko Willink?

  No body of men could possibly enjoy the dust, the heat, the blistered foot, and the aching back, but hard road marching is necessary if a sound foundation is to be built under the discipline of fighting forces, particularly those whose labors are in the field. And the gain comes quickly. The rise in spirits within any organization, which is always to be observed after they rebound from a hard march, does not come essentially from the feeling of relief that the strain is past, but rather from the satisfaction that a goal has been crossed.

• 1:38:43Jocko Willink?

  It must be accepted that discipline does not break down under the strain of placing a testing demand upon the individual. It is sloth and not activity that destroys discipline. Think about that one. So that it's not the strain, it's not the pressure that you put that breaks down the discipline, it's the laziness, it's the sloth that breaks discipline. Troops can endure hard going when it serves an understandable end. This is what they will boast about, mainly when the fatigue is ended. A large part of training is necessarily directed toward conditioning them for unusual hardship and privation.

• 1:39:25Jocko Willink?

  They can take it in stride, but no power on earth can reconcile them to what common sense tells them is unnecessary hardship, which might have been avoided by greater intelligence in their superiors. So if you're telling people to do something and they realize that there's an easier way to do it, they're gonna be angry. When they are overloaded, they know it. When they are required to form a parade two hours ahead of time because their commander got over anxious or didn't know how to write an order, again, they know it. And they are perfectly right if they go sour, because this kind of thing happens a little too often within the command.

• 1:40:06Jocko Willink?

  Within our system, that discipline is nearest perfect, which assures to the individual the greatest freedom of thought and action, while at all times promoting his feeling of responsibility toward the group. The great, do you hear about the greatest form of discipline is the one that gives the greatest freedom of thought and action? That's what we want.

• 1:40:38Jocko Willink?

  We want the discipline to equal freedom.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  That's interesting, his take on like when you go through some hard stuff, the satisfaction isn't that it's over. It's the fact that you did that.

• 1:40:50Jocko Willink?

  Absolutely.

• 1:40:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, you know, I told you my whole sleep thing, what used to be where if I didn't get my eight and a half hours, I was done for the day. But so now let's say I get two hours sleep. And I'm like, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna still do this workout, whatever this conditioning, something hard. Sure, it's gonna be hard. Sure, I'm not looking forward to it. But yeah, the satisfaction is afterwards, I'll even go to how it said, you're gonna have something to brag about or something like that. Bro, that's true. You go and tell your friends, hey, I did this, I only had two hours sleep.

• 1:41:23Jocko Willink?

  Got after it anyways.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do kind of have that feeling like you want to brag about it.

• 1:41:27Jocko Willink?

  No doubt.

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  Like I did some hard stuff.

• 1:41:29Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's, we shouldn't be surprised. We're kind of getting excited when these things completely make sense.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:36Jocko Willink?

  These are, these are, these are generals that knew and understand human nature.

• 1:41:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:43Jocko Willink?

  And these are things that we look at and we learn, we've experienced.

• 1:41:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:47Jocko Willink?

  So it shouldn't come as a surprise.

• 1:41:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. It's crazy when you're, it's like tunnel vision, you know, where it'll happen and you'd almost like you don't even realize it'll happen. Like everyone does that. Everyone does something hard.

• 1:41:58Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:41:59Speaker 01

  Gets through a hard workday, did something under the circumstances that they hate. They might even be complaining about it. Like, oh, this was going on so such a stressful day. But when you get it actually done, you brag about it. At the very least, you feel like you want to brag about it. And keep that good, pursue that, you know, keep that up.

• 1:42:18Jocko Willink?

  Now, there's some counter to that. Here we go. If, back to the book, if the man is cramped by monotonous routine, or made to feel that he cannot move unless an order is barked, he cannot develop these qualities and he will never come forward as a junior leader. So if you put too much discipline on somebody, they're gonna, you're gonna crimp their, their leadership of capabilities. Say that all the time.

• 1:42:42Jocko Willink?

  In the words of DuPique, who saw so deeply into the hearts of fighting men, if one does not wish bonds broken, one should make them elastic and thereby strengthen them.

• 1:42:57Jocko Willink?

  That's a guy, he wrote, he wrote a thing called, uh, Battle Studies. Well, actually, he didn't finish writing it because he got killed in action. Fighting, uh, fighting.

• 1:43:11Jocko Willink?

  Napoleon with, he was, he was French, fighting again, the, in the, I want to say fighting the Prussians.

• 1:43:19Jocko Willink?

  But he, another quote, a great quote from him. That I wrote down, "Nothing can be, nothing can wisely be prescribed in any army without exact knowledge of the fundamental instrument of man and his state of mind, his morale at the instant of combat." So the, you know, DePique is a guy that really started looking at the, the mentality of guys.

• 1:43:49Jocko Willink?

  We might have to get it, we might have to dive into him at some point.

• 1:43:53Jocko Willink?

  Now, speaking of morale. Next section is about morale. A World War II, Blue Jackets, said it this way, Blue Jackets is a term for Navy guys. Said it this way, "Morale is when your hands and feet keep working when your head says it can't be done." "The handiest beginning is to consider morale in conjunction with discipline, since in military service, they are opposite sides of the same coin. When one is present, the other will also be there."

• 1:44:25Jocko Willink?

  Morale and discipline. Morale and discipline, they go together.

• 1:44:31Jocko Willink?

  This is a familiar story. It was repeated by the United States forces in World War II during the Normandy hedgerow fighting and the invasions of the Central Pacific atolls. Troops had to learn the hard way how to hit, how to survive in moving through jungle or across mountains and the desert. When that happened, the only disciplinary residue which mattered was obedience to orders. The movements they had learned by rote were of less value than the spiritual bond between one man and another. The most valuable lesson was that of mutual support. So, this is awesome.

• 1:45:12Jocko Willink?

  The moves, the battle moves that they, that they learned, that they trained, that were hard and put them through this hard war, you know, getting ready to deploy overseas. When they got overseas, they're fighting in a hedgerow. They never did that before. They're fighting in a mountain. They never did that before. So they, they had to take these, these drills that they had learned and kind of throw them out the window. So all they had left, and the most valuable thing of all that training wasn't the movements themselves. It was the spiritual bond between these men. That was more important than the tactical maneuvers was the fact that they did hard training together and they worked together and they knew each other and they had that spiritual bond.

• 1:45:47Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, in its essentials, discipline is not measured according to how a man keeps step in a drill yard or whether he salutes at just the right angle. The test is how well he willingly, willingly responds to his superiors in all vital matters. And finally, whether he stands or runs when his life is at stake. History makes this clear. There are countless examples of successful military forces which had almost no discipline when measured by the usual yardsticks, yet had a high battle morale, productive of the kind of discipline which beats the enemy in battle.

• 1:46:28Jocko Willink?

  So that's another little dichotomy, you know, they're talking about like you might not be the most disciplined on the parade field. But if you've got that bond, you've got that discipline bond, you can still come up with the victory.

• 1:46:41Jocko Willink?

  This is important. Back to the book, man is able to recognize a right and reasonable discipline as such, even though it causes him personal inconvenience because he's the, he has acquired a sense of military values. But if it is either unduly harsh or unnecessarily lax, he likewise knows it and wears it as a hair shirt to the undoing of his morale.

• 1:47:13Jocko Willink?

  Though the man like the group can be hurt by being pushed beyond sensible limits, his spirit will suffer even more sorely if no real test is put upon his abilities and moral powers.

• 1:47:28Jocko Willink?

  The greater his intelligence, the stronger will be his resentment. That is the law of nature. The enlightened mind has always the greatest measure of self-discipline, but it also has a higher sense of what constitutes justice, fair play, and a reasonable requirement in the performance of duty. If denied these things, he will come to hold his chief, his job, and himself in contempt.

• 1:47:59Jocko Willink?

  So if you get the, if you're a military leader, or if you're a civilian leader, and you get the idea, okay, Jocko's talking about discipline. Discipline's key, so you're gonna come in and just throw discipline on your people and burden them with this heavy realm of discipline? It's not gonna work out because everyone knows that it's unjust, unfair, unnecessary. We don't want that unnecessary discipline, but we embrace, we might not outwardly, but we, deep inside, we embrace the hardcore discipline if it makes sense and has meaning.

• 1:48:33Jocko Willink?

  Admiral Ben Murillo has stated a formula in understanding terms by his explanation of what made the Seabees notable for competence and devotion to duty during World War II. What he said is this, "We used artisans to do the work for which they had been trained in civilian life. They were well-led by officers who spoke their language. We made them feel that they were playing an important part in a great adventure, and thus they achieved a high standard of morale." The elements underscored by Admiral Murillo deserve special note: satisfaction in a work program, mutual confidence between leaders and ranks, conviction that all together we're striving for something more important than themselves.

• 1:49:17Jocko Willink?

  Talk about the Seabees, the construction battalions in the Navy that do engineering work.

• 1:49:24Jocko Willink?

  Overseas and I actually had CBs with us in Ramadi that were awesome, awesome guys that did everything for us. They kept everything going, kept everything running, kept everything working, built everything that we used. Awesome guys. And every CB I've ever worked with has been a just a, just a beast. They have that attitude. Like they know they're gonna make, their, their, their motto is can do. And believe me, when you tell them to do something, they're a hundred percent into that motto right there. They're gonna make it happen.

• 1:49:55Jocko Willink?

  Here we go back to the book, talking about morale. Under training conditions or in combat, the mental ills and the resulting morale, moral and physical deterioration which sometimes beset military forces cannot be cured simply by the intensification of disciplinary methods. Can't just turn it up. It is true that the signs of recovery will sometimes attend the installation of a more rigid or less rigid discipline. You can't just, you can't just go up or down. The onset is in fact usually due to the collateral influence of an increased confidence in the command whereby men are made to feel that their own fortunes are

• 1:50:37Jocko Willink?

  on the mend. Then, discipline and morale are together revitalized almost as if by throwing an electric switch. In army history, there's no better example of the working of this principle than the work of Brigadier General Paul B. Malone. He took over, this is World War I, 1919, he took over a command where slackness and indiscipline were general. The men were suffering terrible privation and too many of their officers were indifferent to their needs. Many of them had been battle casualties. Some had been discharged from hospitals before their wounds were healed. The mess was abominable. The camp was short

• 1:51:19Jocko Willink?

  of firewood and other supply. In freezing weather, men were sleeping on the ground with only a pair of blankets apiece. The death toll from influenza, pneumonia, and the aggravation of battle wounds rose daily. Despair and resentment over these conditions began to express itself in semi-violent form. Every fresh breath of discipline was countered with harassing punishments until an air of wretched stagnation hung over the whole camp. General Pershing visited the base. The men refused to form for him.

• 1:51:56Jocko Willink?

  The generals coming and the men were not going to form up for him. When he tried to address them at a mass meeting, they wouldn't hear him out. Instead of taking any action against the men, he sent for General Malone. The new commander arrived without any instructions except to determine what was wrong and correct it. With soldierly instinct, he recognized that the indiscipline of the camp was an effect and not a cause. But even as he gave orders for relieving the physical distress of the men, he demanded that they return to orderly habits. He walked around the areas. Already, on his orders, duck boards were being laid throughout the mud. And the whole physical setup was in a process of reorganization.

• 1:52:39Jocko Willink?

  The men, grown listless from weeks of mistreatment, paid no heed. "Get on your feet. I'm your general. I respect you, but I want your respect," were his words. They restored the whole situation. The first impact of this one man on the camp that was never forgotten by anyone who saw it. It is a point to remember. A firm hold at the beginning pays tenfold dividend of the timid approach. Followed by a show of firmness later on. Within forty-eight hours, the physical condition of the camp was showing improvement, and sixty thousand men were again doing their duty and bearing themselves in a military manner.

• 1:53:22Jocko Willink?

  The lessons from this one incident stand out like beams from a searchlight battery.

• 1:53:29Jocko Willink?

  Leadership.

• 1:53:34Jocko Willink?

  One man is able to accomplish a miracle by an act of will accompanied by good works. The morale of the force flows from self-discipline of the commander. And in turn, the discipline of the force is reestablished by the upsurge of its moral power.

• 1:53:55Jocko Willink?

  Another example here, when the redeployment period which followed World War II threatened to complete collapse to the morale of the general military establishment, the remedy attempted by some unit leaders was to relax discipline and their work requirement all around. Other officers met this crisis by improving the conditions of work, setting an example which proved to the men that they believed in its importance and paying sedulous attention to the personal problems of those within the unit. They found that they could still get superior performance in the midst of chaos. Organic strength materializes in the same way on the field of war. However adverse the general situation, men will stick to the one man who knows what

• 1:54:39Jocko Willink?

  he wants to do and welcomes them to a full share in the enterprise.

• 1:54:48Jocko Willink?

  Leadership, leadership, and leadership.

• 1:54:52Jocko Willink?

  Most important thing on the battlefield.

• 1:54:58Jocko Willink?

  In the words of Colonel G.F.R. Henderson, "It is the leader who reckons with the human nature of his troops and of the enemy, rather than with their mere physical attributes, numbers, armament, and the like, who can hope to follow in Napoleon's footsteps." Gotta know your people, gotta know human nature. Gotta know human nature. It's more important than physical, it's more important than people you got, number of people you got's more important than their weapons.

• 1:55:26Jocko Willink?

  Human nature.

• 1:55:29Jocko Willink?

  There are a few governing principles. And before considering their application in detail, we should first think about the file. So now we're talking about a guy, a troop, a soldier. He is a man. He expects to be treated as an adult, not a schoolboy. He has rights, they must be made known to him and thereafter respected. He has ambition, it must be stirred. He has a belief in fair play, it must be honored.

• 1:56:02Jocko Willink?

  He has the need of comradeship, it must be supplied. He has imagination, it must be stimulated. He has a personal sense of dignity, it must not be broken down. He has pride. It can be satisfied and made the bedrock of his character. Once he gains assurance that he is playing a useful and respected part in a superior and successful organization. To give men working as a group the feeling of great accomplishment together is the acme of inspired leadership.

• 1:56:42Jocko Willink?

  You could basically, if you're going into a leadership position, just read that to yourself every morning. Just what, what your subordinates are, what they are. A man.

• 1:56:54Jocko Willink?

  Be treated as an adult, not a schoolboy, those are just

• 1:56:58Jocko Willink?

  so important, the way you view your troops. And some people have a hard time with that. Some people have a hard time with that.

• 1:57:09Jocko Willink?

  Next section is called knowing your job.

• 1:57:14Jocko Willink?

  In one of the, in one of his little known passages, Robert Louis Stevenson, that's the guy that wrote, uh, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and Treasure Island, did the perfect portrait of the man who finally failed at everything because he just never learned how to take hold of his work. It goes like this. His career was one of unbroken shame. He did not drink. He was exactly honest. He was never rude to his employers. Yet he was everywhere discharged. Bringing no interest to his duties, he brought no attention.

• 1:57:52Jocko Willink?

  His day was a tissue of things neglected and things done amiss. And from place to place and from town to town, he carried the character of one thoroughly incompetent.

• 1:58:07Jocko Willink?

  That's how we started this conversation today. We started talking about doing your job. Now, this is important. Just as a rough approximation, any officer's work week should comprise about 50% execution and the other half study. If he is to make the best use of his force.

• 1:58:27Jocko Willink?

  The woods are loaded with go-getters who claim they are men of action and therefore have no need of books.

• 1:58:36Jocko Willink?

  We're talking about studying. We're talking about, we're talking about reading and studying. And these guys that say that there's no need for books. They are of the same bone and marrow as the drone who is always counseling half-speed. Don't sweat, just get by. Extra work means short life. You're better off if they don't notice you. This chant can be heard by anyone who cares to listen. It's the old American invitation to mediocrity.

• 1:59:08Jocko Willink?

  But not all wisdom is to be found in books. And at no time is this more true than when one is breaking in. What is expected of any novice in any field is that he will ask questions. Smart ones if possible, but if not, then questions of all kinds until he learns that there is no such item as reveley oil. And that skirmish line doesn't come on spools. So reveley oil, reveley is when you wake up in the morning. It's the, and reveley oil is something that doesn't actually exist, but you'd say to a new guy, hey, we need to get some reveley oil for tomorrow. Can you go down to supply and get it for me? Or skirmish line, the skirmish line is when you get online to engage the enemy.

• 1:59:53Jocko Willink?

  Get online and put your guns in the same direction. That's called a skirmish line. Well, he said, hey, we need a spool of skirmish line. Echo, can you run down to the supply department and get us a roll of skirmish line? So these are just kind of like little practical jokes, but his point is here, and people ask me this all the time, you know, I just checked in. I'm just taking over as leader. I'm just, you know, I'm a, I'm a new officer. I'm getting commissioned. What should I do? How should I lead? Ask questions. There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with it.

• 2:00:18Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, wisdom begins at the point of understanding that there is nothing shameful about ignorance. It is shameful only when a man would rather remain in that state than cultivate other men's knowledge. Boom. There is never any reason why he should hesitate for it is better to be embarrassed from seeking counsel than to be found short for not having sought it.

• 2:00:48Jocko Willink?

  Ideally, any officer should be able to do the work of any man under him. However, it is obviously absurd to expect that any officer could know more about radial repair than his repairman, more about mapping than his cartographic section, more about moving parts than a gunsmith, more about radar than a specialist in electronics, and more about cipher than a cryptographer. The distinction lies in the difference between the power to do a thing well and that of being able to judge when it is done well. A man can say a book is bad, though not knowing how to write one himself, provided he is a student of literature. Though

• 2:01:33Jocko Willink?

  he has never laid an egg, he can pass fair judgment on an omelet.

• 2:01:40Jocko Willink?

  So, this is another thing, you know, you're not gonna know everything as a leader. You know, did I know as much about sniper, sniping, as my snipers didn't even know? Close. You know, did I know as much about, just like he said, as much about the radios as my radio men did? No, no, close to what they knew. You don't need to know everything, but you have to have an understanding of it. And you have to at least be able to understand when something is being done right or wrong.

• 2:02:10Jocko Willink?

  This is another good point. We can ponder the words of William Hazlitt, "A man who shrinks from a collision with his equals or superiors will soon sink below himself. We improve by trying our strength with others, not by showing it off."

• 2:02:27Jocko Willink?

  So you can't be afraid to bring stuff up to your superiors. Do you gotta be respectful? Yes, you do. But instead of just being a yes man, don't be that. Now this next section.

• 2:02:45Jocko Willink?

  This is called writing and speaking.

• 2:02:49Jocko Willink?

  Other things being equal, a superior rating will invariably be given to the officer who is preserved in his studies of the art of self-expression, while his colleague, who attaches little importance to what may be achieved through working with the language, will be marked for mediocrity. So we're talking about reading and speaking, writing and speaking.

• 2:03:14Jocko Willink?

  As the British statesman Disraeli put it, "Men govern with words." Within the military establishment, command is exercised through what is said, which commands attention and understanding, and through what is written, which directs, explains, interprets, or informs. Battles are won through the ability of men to express concrete ideas in clear and unmistakable language.

• 2:03:51Jocko Willink?

  Battles are won through clear and unmistakable language. That's how battles are won. Back to the book, "All administration is carried forward along the chain of command by the power of men to make their thoughts articulate and available to others. There is no way under the sun that this basic condition can be altered.

• 2:04:16Jocko Willink?

  Once the point is granted, any officer should be ready to accept its corollary, that superior qualification in the use of language, both as to the written and the spoken word, is more essential to military leadership than knowledge of the whole technique of weapons handling."

• 2:04:35Jocko Willink?

  So when people ask me why I studied English in college, this is why I studied English in college.

• 2:04:44Jocko Willink?

  Some men will take refuge in the excuse offered by the great majority. "I'm just a simple fighting file with no gift for writing or speaking." That is the mark of an officer who has no ambition to properly qualify himself and is seeking to justify his own laziness.

• 2:05:08Jocko Willink?

  And the reason he's saying that is because he thinks that you can become a good writer. Back to the book, writers are self-made.

• 2:05:17Jocko Willink?

  But it is a reasonable speculation that history might never have heard of the greater number of these men had they not worked sedulously to become proficient with the pen

• 2:05:31Jocko Willink?

  as well as with the sword.

• 2:05:35Jocko Willink?

  Men who command words to serve their thoughts and feelings are well on their way

• 2:05:41Jocko Willink?

  to commanding men to serve their purposes. All senior commanders respect the junior who has a faculty for thinking an idea through and then expressing it comprehensively in clear, unvarnished phases. So your young leader out there, young trooper, think about improving your method of thought. Think about making your speech more clear.

• 2:06:09Jocko Willink?

  Any man who has the brain to qualify for commission can make of himself a competent writer. Because of natural limitations, he may never excel in this art, but if he has had average schooling, knows how to open a dictionary, can find his way to the library, and is willing to commit himself to long study and practice, particularly in non-duty hours, and will finally free himself from the superstition that writing is a game only for specialists, he can acquire all the skill that is necessary to further his advance within the military profession.

• 2:06:43Jocko Willink?

  But where should work begin? How about a little practical advice?

• 2:06:49Jocko Willink?

  The only way to learn to write is to write.

• 2:06:54Jocko Willink?

  That's it. There is no other secret other than hard, unremitting practice.

• 2:07:02Jocko Willink?

  Most writers at the start are mentally muscle bound and poorly coordinated. They have thoughts in their head. They can, they think they can develop them clearly, but when they try to apply a largely dormant vocabulary to the expression of these thoughts, the result is stiff and self-conscious. Self-conscious. The only cure for this is constant mental exercise with one's pen or over one's typewriter.

• 2:07:33Jocko Willink?

  The discipline through which one learns to write adds substance to thought whereby one's ideas are given body and connection. Such common faults as worry-ness, overstatement, faulty sentence structure, and weak use of words are gradually corrected. With their passing, confidence grows. This does not mean, however, that the task becomes easy. So you can get better at this game. You just gotta practice, kinda like getting better at pull-ups. How do you get better at pull-ups?

• 2:08:08Speaker 01

  Do pull-ups.

• 2:08:09Jocko Willink?

  Do pull-ups.

• 2:08:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:10Jocko Willink?

  Now, this is interesting, speaking of, uh, reading and, or speaking of writing, now we get into reading a little bit here. This is good. "It is a good habit to underscore passages and books which have contributed something vital to one's own thought." So break out the highlighters.

• 2:08:30Jocko Willink?

  I kinda laughed when I read that because I have a lot of highlighters.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you went Winchester on a couple of those too.

• 2:08:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 2:08:41Jocko Willink?

  Now, this is talking, going back to writing again, as a practical matter is better to concentrate on a few elementary rules of thumb, such as are contained in the following list, than to bog down attempting to heed everything that the pendants have said about how to become a writer. So here's some advice on writing, and you'll notice that these are good advice on life.

• 2:09:02Jocko Willink?

  "The more simply a thing is said, the more powerfully it influences those who read. Plain words make strong writing. There is always one best word to convey a thought or a feeling. To accept a weaker substitute, rather than to search for the right word, will deprive any writing of force.

• 2:09:24Jocko Willink?

  Economy of words invigorates composition.

• 2:09:29Jocko Willink?

  In all writing, but in military writing particularly, there is no excuse for vague terminology or phrases which do not convey an exact expression of what was done, or what is intended." And just think about how you communicate with your subordinates, and think about these rules, so impactful.

• 2:09:50Jocko Willink?

  This is a good one, "It is better at all times to rein in. The strength of military writing, like the soundness of military operations, does not gain through overstatement and artificial coloring. The bigger the subject, the less it needs embroidery."

• 2:10:09Jocko Willink?

  Now, he's gonna start talking here, go from talking about writing, to talk about speaking.

• 2:10:16Jocko Willink?

  "A majority of the world's most gifted writers would in all probability be dumbstruck if put before an audience. Though dealing confidently with ideas, they lack the confidence when dealing with people. The military officer has need of both talents, and as to where the accent should be placed, it is probably more important that he should speak well, than his writing prose should be polished."

• 2:10:47Jocko Willink?

  A unit commander may permit a clerk or a subordinate to do the greater part of his paperwork, either because his own time is taken with other duties or because he is awkward at it. But if he permits any other voice to dominate the councils of the organization, he soon ceases to exercise moral authority over it. So you gotta be confident in your speaking. It's a little bit more important than the writing because you can have your guys do some writing. Yeah, I'll sign it. Looks good to me.

• 2:11:16Speaker 01

  Break this guy, uh, what else?

• 2:11:21Speaker 01

  One of the bosses I had. We'll see that. Oh, so he'd always misuse words. Like almost to the point where you know how some comedians will do that. They're like, they'll miss you like Hinachi does that a lot of times. But, um, but this guy would for real do it. So, because he didn't, but you know what it was is you know how the kind of guy who's, they want to try to sound smart, basically, and

• 2:11:43Jocko Willink?

  Not a good idea.

• 2:11:45Speaker 01

  Like, so he would use the word like irregardless. He would say irregardless as opposed to regardless. And then there's another one that it's so funny because it was so counterproductive. Because when he would talk and we'd all be holding in our laughter and I'd work with this other guy. He was the kind of relentless jokes, you know, when you're gone. So if you did something and in this case you'd misuse words or when he leaves, brother jokes would come and it'd be just so funny. But nonetheless, he would use, um, behoof, you know, behoof like it would behoof.

• 2:12:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he would say behoof.

• 2:12:15Speaker 01

  I think it is behoofed, but you're right behoofed. That's what I thought. Anyway, I doubt that's a whole nother thing. But anyway, behoove then. So he would misuse that word. He would, he thought it meant what, he thought it meant baffling, like, you know what really behooves me is that they do it this way and then he'd keep doing it, you know? And, um, so anyway, the, the point there is where you kind of, you gotta know how to talk, right? So. And in this case, this was, this wasn't like some high levels, like speeches he was making or addressed, it was just like normal stuff. So, right. I thought that that was kinda critical in the way like we regarded him as a boss. That was one of the ma- like major things where it's

• 2:12:59Speaker 01

  like, bro, we can't even take this guy seriously.

• 2:13:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, cuz he behooves me with everything he says.

• 2:13:04Speaker 01

  He was really behooving that he did.

• 2:13:07Jocko Willink?

  Oh, Lord. Wrong usage. It's okay, people. It's not okay.

• 2:13:10Speaker 01

  I guess the point there, Anora, a separate point is, learn the words before you start trying to throw them out, I guess. And that goes back to what you were saying. That would be very, yeah, that'd be, what you're saying about, um, uh, it's better to seek than, or be, seek the knowledge and be embarrassed because you gotta seek, rather than get it called out when you don't know it or whatever. Anyway, that's what he was doing.

• 2:13:38Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. The matter of nerve is a main element in speaking. When an officer is ill at ease, fidgety, and not to the point, the vote of his command for the time being is no confidence. And so long as he remains that way, they will not change, no matter though his goodwill shines forth through in other acts. So, it's what you just said. If someone's jacked up when they're trying to talk to you and talk to the group, your, your vote is no confidence.

• 2:14:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a confidence.

• 2:14:12Jocko Willink?

  As, this is a good, good, back to the book. As for how an officer should talk to his men, his manner and tone should be no different than if he were addressing his fellow officers, or for that matter, a group of his intellectual and political peers from any walk of life. If he is stuffy, he will not succeed. If he affects a superior manner, that is a mark of his inferiority. If he is patronizing and talks to grown men as a teacher might talk to a class of adolescents, the rug, figuratively, will be pulled out from under him.

• 2:14:52Jocko Willink?

  His audience will be put down, will put him down as a chump. It is curiously the case that the junior officer who can't get the right pitch when he talks to the ranks will also be out of tune when he talks to his superiors. This failing is a sign mainly that he needs practice in the school of human nature.

• 2:15:13Jocko Willink?

  By listening a little more carefully to other men, he may find, he may himself in time attain maturity. Another good way to get better at speaking is by listening. No doubt.

• 2:15:31Jocko Willink?

  When you're speaking, sometimes you're instructing and one of the, one of the pieces here is called the art of instruction.

• 2:15:39Jocko Willink?

  Because you spend so much time when you're in a leadership position, you're instructing people, whether you realize or not, you're instructing people. Here's the rules that they say to follow. Keep it simple. Have but one main object. Stay on the course. Remain cheerful. Be enthusiastic. Put it out as if the ideas were as interesting and novel to you as to your audience.

• 2:16:02Jocko Willink?

  Now, this is a, a story which really doesn't really know what has to do with instruction, but it's a cool story. So I'm gonna read it anyways. Cause it's just badass. In World War I, an American major, name now long forgotten, was given the task of making the rounds. And talking to all combat formations and convincing them that the future was bright. No Boy Scout errand. So you imagine you World War I, we've talked about that. It's a nightmare and his, his job is to go around and ensure people that the future is bright. But wherever he went, morale was lifted by his words. It substance, in substance, what he said was this.

• 2:16:41Jocko Willink?

  None of us cares about making a living with any individuals who wants every break his own way. But when the odds are even, the gamble is worth any good man's time. So let's look at the proportion. You now have one chance in two. You may go overseas, or you may not. Suppose you do. You still have one chance in two. You may go to the front, or you may not. If you don't, you'll see a foreign country at Uncle Sam's expense. If you do, you'll find out about war. Which is the toughest chance of them all. But up there, on the front, you still have one chance in two. You may get hit, or you may not.

• 2:17:24Jocko Willink?

  If you breeze through it, you'll be a better man for all the rest of your life. And if you get hit, you still have one chance in two. You may get a small wound, and become a hero to your friends and family. Or there is always the last chance, that it may take you out altogether.

• 2:17:46Jocko Willink?

  And while that is a little rugged, it is at least worth remembering, that very few people seem to get out of this life alive.

• 2:17:56Jocko Willink?

  Classic. Classic.

• 2:18:01Jocko Willink?

  Now, talking about reading. Napoleon once said, that the point, that the trouble with books, is that one must read so many bad ones to find something really good. True enough, but even so, there are perfectly practical ways to advance rapidly without undue wasted motion. Consider this, among one's superiors, there are always discriminating men who have adopted a few good books, after reading many, many bad ones. When they say that a text is worthwhile, it deserves reading, and careful study.

• 2:18:38Jocko Willink?

  So, what books does somebody you respect read? They say it's a good book, read it. Now you gotta be careful, because...

• 2:18:47Jocko Willink?

  Because of this, the well-read man need not have more than a dozen books in his home, provided that they all count with him, and he continues to pore over them and ponder the weight of what is said. On the other hand, the ignorant man is frequently marked by his bookshelf stocked with titles, not one of which suggests that he has any professional discernment. Now, I can tell you right now, I'm building a library of books that's kind of crazy, because every time somebody call, every time somebody hits me up on social media and says, hey, you gotta check out this book. I used to like go on Amazon and kind of look and read reviews. Now I just order it. I basically order it because I don't

• 2:19:30Jocko Willink?

  have time and it's hard to tell from the reviews and it takes much time. It's easier just to press click, buy now, Amazon. I'm clicking through the Jocko Podcast Store website. So we're, we're giving back to the, to the, to the podcast. But the thing is, a lot of people might think this book is great. Oh, this would be a great book, but it doesn't quite work, you know? So I'm probably getting, I'd say one out of every five books that I order do I say, yeah, this one's, this one's game?

• 2:20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. What he's saying there about the difference between somebody who has this huge stock of books, is he saying like a variety, variety of different books that doesn't, it said something about not indicating any kind of expertise or something?

• 2:20:14Jocko Willink?

  It just says he, it just shows that he doesn't have any discernment. This guy just buying a bunch of books, he might not know anything about them. Doesn't mean, don't judge a book by its cover. Pun intended. You know, just because this guy's got a bunch of books doesn't mean that he's read them all, doesn't mean that he actually, they're all great books. Really? I can tell you right now, they're not all great books in the world.

• 2:20:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:34Jocko Willink?

  A lot of books are not good and you shouldn't waste your time reading them. But if I, if you walked into a guy that was smart, that you respect, he had 12 books.

• 2:20:41Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 2:20:42Jocko Willink?

  I would just write them all down and go buy them all.

• 2:20:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:44Jocko Willink?

  And you're probably going to be 10 for, 12 for 12.

• 2:20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:47Jocko Willink?

  Or at least 10 for 12.

• 2:20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:49Jocko Willink?

  Whereas if I go into your room and you've got 570 books in there and you go, yeah, these are all great books. There's something wrong with your discernment. You don't know what a good book is.

• 2:20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:59Jocko Willink?

  So get some discernment.

• 2:21:01Speaker 01

  Or I'm just trying to make like I read so much to make 570 books.

• 2:21:09Jocko Willink?

  This, this section, your relationships with your men.

• 2:21:15Jocko Willink?

  And I had to say this part. An officer is not expected to appear all wise to those who serve under him. So often, guys feel that pressure that they think they should know everything. Oh, my guys think I should know if I admit that I don't know this, I'm gonna look bad. Bluffing one's way through a question when ignorant of the answer is foolhardy business. "I'm sorry, but I don't know" is just as appropriate from an officer's lips as from any other. And it helps a little more to add, "But I'll find out." Rank should be used to serve one's subordinates. It should never be flaunted or used to get the upper hand of a subordinate in any situation, save where he has already discredited himself in an unusually ugly or an unseemingly manner.

• 2:21:59Jocko Willink?

  When suggestions from any subordinate are adopted, the credit should be passed on to him publicly. When a subordinate has made a mistake, but not from any lack of goodwill, it is common sense to take the rap for him rather than make him suffer doubly for his error. An officer should not issue orders which he cannot enforce.

• 2:22:20Jocko Willink?

  He should be as good as his word at all times and in any circumstance. He should promise nothing which he cannot make stick. An officer should not work looking over his men's shoulders, checking on every detail of what they're doing and calling them to account at every furlong passed.

• 2:22:39Jocko Willink?

  This maidenly attitude corrodes confidence and destroys initiative, so don't micromanage. On the other hand, contact is necessary at all times, particularly when men are doing long-term work or operating in a detachment at a remote point. They will become discouraged and will lose their sense of direction unless their superior looks in on them periodically. Ask them whether he can be of any help, and so doing gets them to open up the discussion and the problem.

• 2:23:11Jocko Willink?

  The Navy says, this is another good, another good one right here. The Navy says, "It isn't courtesy to change the set of the sail within thirty minutes after the relief of watch. Applied to a command job, this means that is a mistake for an officer on taking a new post to order sweeping changes affecting the other men. In the belief that this will give him a reputation for action and firmness. The studying of the situation is the overture of the steadying of it. The story is told of General Curtis E. LeMay of the Air Force, taking over the 21st Bomber Command in the Marianas.

• 2:23:51Jocko Willink?

  He faced the worried staff officers of his predecessor and said quietly, "You're all staying put. I assume you know your jobs, or you wouldn't be here."

• 2:24:03Jocko Willink?

  Pretty simple. And then people always ask, "Come into a, what do I do when I take over?" Relax, be humble, listen, observe. Don't need to jump in there and change the set of the sail. "All right, Echo's gone now. I'm in charge. Change everything." No, wrong answer.

• 2:24:20Jocko Willink?

  This next section, "Your men's moral and physical welfare. When men are moral, the moral power which binds them together and fits them for high action is given its main chance for success."

• 2:24:37Jocko Willink?

  Now, listen to these. "To be temperate in all things, to be continent and refrain from loose living of any sort are acts of the will. They require self-denial and a foregoing of that which may be more attractive in favor of the thing which should be done."

• 2:24:58Jocko Willink?

  Granted, there are few individuals who are so thin-blooded that they never feel tempted to digress morally. Men in the majority are not like that. So there's some guys that are just on the straight and narrow. They're so, they're so thin-blooded that they just, they get no temptations. Most men, they get temptations. What they renounce in the name of self-discipline at the cost of a considerably, inconsiderable inner stress, they endeavor to compensate by gains in their personal character. Making that grade isn't easy, but no one who is anyone has yet said that it isn't worthwhile. In the armed services, there are an old saying that an officer without character is more useless than a ship with no bottom.

• 2:25:44Jocko Willink?

  In summing up, the strength of will, which enables a man to lead a clean life, is no different than the strength of purpose which fits him to follow a hard line of duty. There are exceptions to every rule. Many a lovable rounder has proved himself to be a first-class fighting man. But even though he had an unconquerable weakness for drinking women, his resolution had to become steeled along some other line, or he would have been no good when the payoff came. So this is, you know, saying that the strength of will that it takes to stay strong in all these situations, all these temptations,

• 2:26:27Jocko Willink?

  that will is, is real, and that can transfer over. Now, I can tell you that this one is, you know, there's all, the military is filled. Like he says, many a lovable rounder has proved himself to be a first-class fighter. Of course, guys, they're badass guys throughout the ages that were, even Henry the Fifth had a wild man reputation. Going back to Shakespeare.

• 2:26:56Jocko Willink?

  And so, but he's saying that, you know, these, these

• 2:27:01Jocko Willink?

  staying on the straight and narrow enforces your will is what he's saying. Back to the book, putting aside for the moment, the question of the vices and regarding only the gain to moral power, which comes of bodily exercise and physical condition. So he's talked about vices. Okay, we got it. Stay clean. Stay clean is what he's saying, but now he's saying there's something else. There's something called exercise and physical conditioning.

• 2:27:27Jocko Willink?

  It should be self evident that the process which builds the muscle must also train and alert the mind. How could it be otherwise? Every physical act must have as its origin, a mental impulse, conscious or unconscious. Thus, in training a man to master his muscles, we also help him to master his brain. He comes out of physical training, not only better conditioned to move, but better prepared to think about how and why he is moving, which is true mobility.

• 2:28:02Jocko Willink?

  So you want to strengthen your will? Yes. Stay clean. Stay on the moral path. And then get your physical conditioning on because that's going to make you mentally tougher.

• 2:28:15Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book in the United States service, we are tending to forget because of the effect of motorization. That the higher value of the discipline of the road march in other days wasn't that it hardened the muscles. But that short of combat, it was the best method of separating the men from the boys. This is true today, despite all the new conditions imposed by technological changes. A hard road march is the most satisfactory training test of the moral strength of the individual man.

• 2:28:50Jocko Willink?

  At the same time, to sensibly overload men for road marching hurts them in two ways. Dichotomy to everything. So you can hurt them with the road march. Here's the two ways. It weakens their faith in the sense of the command, thereby impairing morale, and it breaks down their muscle and tendon. So you overload them. You're going to crush them. You're going to break them and you're going to ruin their spirit. There is another not infrequent cause of breakdown. The leader who makes the mistake of thinking that every man's limit is the same as his own.

• 2:29:26Jocko Willink?

  So you know, I can, I can, I can do this. I can hump in 20 miles or 20 clicks. Everyone can do it. Wrong answer. When an officer does this kind of thing thoughtlessly, he shows himself to be an incompetent observer of men. When he does it to show off, he deserves to be given 10 days in the electric chair. Hey, there you go. Get in the electric chair. 10 days. That's a, that's like, how many times do you die in 10 days in the electric chair?

• 2:29:54Speaker 01

  I know, a lot.

• 2:29:55Jocko Willink?

  But don't show off is the point.

• 2:29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:57Jocko Willink?

  Otherwise you're going in the electric chair for 10 days.

• 2:30:00Speaker 01

  But isn't that like an old classic thing in the movie where it's usually the like combat, like a situation where the guys are complaining, you know? Like, oh, this is too, this is unrealistic. The, I don't know, obstacle course, something like this. And then the drill sergeant or whoever, he, he does it, you know? He's like the older guy.

• 2:30:18Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah, he's proving that, look, I'm not asking you to do anything that I wouldn't do myself.

• 2:30:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:22Jocko Willink?

  That's all that that is.

• 2:30:23Speaker 01

  Right. But in a way. He's like, hey, I can do it. So you should be able to do it.

• 2:30:28Jocko Willink?

  That's true. Guess what? A young recruit should be able to do it.

• 2:30:35Speaker 01

  Watch out.

• 2:30:35Jocko Willink?

  Otherwise you're not reaching the standards. You've got to have standards.

• 2:30:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:39Jocko Willink?

  But if he was saying, hey, you should be able to do this with one arm tied behind your back like I can, then it'd be wrong.

• 2:30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:30:46Jocko Willink?

  You see the difference there?

• 2:30:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:30:47Jocko Willink?

  Cause I make sure, cause otherwise you're gonna get me on a technicality. Don't want that to happen over here. Speaking of athletic accomplishments. In the nature of things, the officer who's been an athlete can fit himself into this part of the program with little difficulty and with great credit, provided he acts with moderation that here is suggested. By the same token, the officer who has shunned sports in school, either because he didn't have the size or coordination or is more interested in something else, will frequently have an understandable hesitation about trying to play the lead hand in anything which he thinks will make him look bad. Talking about the benefits of the sports.

• 2:31:28Jocko Willink?

  If he has not kept himself in good physical shape, his nerves will not be able to stand the strain of combat, to say nothing of his legs. It can be said again and again, the highest form of physical training that an officer can undergo is the physical conditioning of his own men. Nothing else can give him more faith in his own ability to stay the course, and nothing else is likely to give him a firmer feeling of solidarity with his men. Study and an active thirst for wider professional knowledge have their place in an officer's scheme of things, but there is something about the experience of bodily competition, of joining with and leading men in strenuous physical exercise, which uniquely invigorates

• 2:32:13Jocko Willink?

  one's spirit with the confidence, "I can do this, I can lead, I can command." The body and mind are connected, everybody. Know it. Back to the book, the really good thing about the gain in moral force deriving from all forms of physical training is that it is an unconscious gain. Willpower, determination, mental poise, and muscle control all march hand in hand with the general health and well-being of the man, with results not less decisive under training conditions than on the field of battle.

• 2:32:54Jocko Willink?

  A man who develops correct posture and begins to fill out his body so that he looks the part of a fighter will take greater pride in wearing of the uniform. In doing so, he will take greater care to conduct himself morally, that he will not disgrace it. He will gain confidence as he acquires a confident and determined bearing. The same presence and the physical strength which contributes to it will help carry him through the hour of danger. Strength of will is partly of the mind and partly of the body. In combat, fatigue will beat down men as quickly as any other condition, for fatigue

• 2:33:37Jocko Willink?

  inevitably carries fear with it. Tired men are afraid.

• 2:33:45Jocko Willink?

  There is no quicker way to lose a battle than to lose it on the road for lack of preliminary hardening in troops. Such a condition cannot be redeemed by the resolve of a commander who insists on driving troops an extra mile beyond their general level of physical endurance. So, so if you've got guys that aren't ready, just because you're fired up, doesn't mean it's going to work. You can't push them hard now. Here's what happens. Extremes of this sort make men rebellious and hateful of the command and thus strike at tactical efficiency from two directions at once. For when men resent a commander, they will not fight as willingly for him. And when their bodies are spent, their nerves are gone.

• 2:34:30Jocko Willink?

  Physical conditioning.

• 2:34:33Jocko Willink?

  Now, on top of that, we got the physical conditioning. You also have to keep your people informed. In war, in the absence of information, man's natural promptings alternate between unreasoning fears that the worst is likely to happen and wishful thought that all danger is remote. Either impulse is a barrier to the growth of that condition of alert confidence, which comes to men when they have a realization of their own strength and a reasonably clear concept of the general situation.

• 2:35:10Jocko Willink?

  You gotta keep your people informed. That's what I was talking about earlier, being at the end of a platoon.

• 2:35:17Jocko Willink?

  Next section is about counseling your men. Nothing more unfortunate can happen to an officer than to come to be regarded by his subordinates as unapproachable. For such a reputation isolates him from the main problems of the command, responsibility, as well as its chief rewards. How do you become approachable? The too formal manner, the over rigid attitude, the disposition to deal with any human problem by the numbers as if it were one more act in an organizational routine can have a chilling effect upon men. So that, that idea that you're just going to be by the book on everything, that's not going to make you approachable.

• 2:36:03Jocko Willink?

  That being said, back to the book, it is not necessary that an officer wet nurses men in order to serve well in the role of counsel. His doors should be open, but he does not play the part either of father confessor or of a hotel greeter. Neither great solemnity or effuseness are called for, but mainly serious attention to the problem and then straightforward advice or decision. According to the nature of the case and provided that from his own knowledge and experience, he feels qualified to give it. If not, it is wiser to defer than to offer a half baked opinion. So it's okay if you don't know. Hey, look, I don't know. I've never dealt with this before. Maybe you should go talk to Echo.

• 2:36:47Jocko Willink?

  He deals with these computers all the time. Come to me with your computer problems. Back to the book, World War II officers had to abide by this standard dealing with the general malaise which rose out of redeployment. When a man came forward and said that he couldn't take it anymore and the commander knew that he'd always been a highly dutiful individual, it became the commander's job to attempt to get the man home. But when a second man came forward with the same story and the record showed that he'd always shirked his work, the question was whether he should be given the final chance to shirk it again. To favor the first man meant furthering discipline.

• 2:37:32Jocko Willink?

  His comrades recognized it as a fair deal. To turn back the second man was equally constructive to the same end. So those, that's just classic and we've seen that in just about every book we've read. You know, when some guy, World War II, we saw a bunch of it. Some guy would just lose it. And we even saw in the Korean, you know, some of the Korean books we've covered, the guy loses it, but they're a good guy. Remember the guy walking around in his sleeping bag? Look, dude, we're just gonna take care of this guy. You know, he's been a good guy. We'll get him off the front. He's got a few days left. But then when you get a guy that's, that's weak and scared and doesn't man up and do his duty and then he wants to go home, they're not giving that guy slack. Doesn't deserve it, didn't earn it.

• 2:38:14Jocko Willink?

  Now, this is interesting. There are officers who hold every subordinate like grim death, seeing no better way to advance their personal fortunes. So this is what we're talking about here is, and this happens a lot in the military, but it happens in every business I work with where you got people that are being moved around. So like, oh, Echo works, you got this guy Billy that works for you? Hey, I need Billy to help me with this project. What do you say? No, you can't have him. He's my guy. Well, what do you have him working on right now? I got some projects coming up. Well, I need him right now. Don't, I got projects. You know what I'm saying? So people go into that mode where they hold everyone like a grim death. There are officers who hold every able subordinate like grim death, seeing no better way to advance their personal fortunes.

• 2:38:55Jocko Willink?

  This is a sign of moral weakness, not of strength, and it is inevitable fruit, and its inevitable fruit is discontent within the organization. The sign of superiority in any officer at whatever level is his confidence that he can make another good man to fill any vacancy.

• 2:39:18Jocko Willink?

  The other time I don't like that is when somebody, you know, if you're gonna give me Billy and it's actually a promotion for Billy, it's like a step up, but you don't want to give him to me anyways. You're hurting him because you're just trying to help yourself.

• 2:39:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:30Jocko Willink?

  No, give the guy up. Find somebody else new. Find a better person. Find somebody that's gonna mold and make better.

• 2:39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had that happen to me before.

• 2:39:37Jocko Willink?

  Were you the guy? Were you the guy? The guy that got, didn't get promoted?

• 2:39:42Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 2:39:43Jocko Willink?

  Somebody held on to you?

• 2:39:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it was less about if I did or didn't get promoted. It was that he was just holding on where, you know, to kind of negate any chance of that. It was clear. He actually even told me to.

• 2:39:58Jocko Willink?

  Well, that was at least straightforward of him.

• 2:40:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:02Jocko Willink?

  Not good. How'd that work out for you, for your morale?

• 2:40:07Speaker 01

  It didn't help, put it that way.

• 2:40:11Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, some of the ablest commanders in our service have abided by this rule. They never denied the man who had a legitimate reason for transfer. And they never shuffled off their lemons and gold bricks under a false label. So that this is another thing that happens in businesses. Hey, you got Billy, he Billy's a bum. And I say, hey, Echo, I need a guy over here to help me with this. Oh, yeah, you can have Billy. Great guy.

• 2:40:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:38Jocko Willink?

  You give me Billy, he's a disaster. That's a gold brick. It's a lie.

• 2:40:45Jocko Willink?

  Here's a few common sense rules, which when followed will enable any officer to play his part more effectively in the counseling of men. An excess of expression is a failing. So when you give away your facial expression looks all, that's a failing.

• 2:41:03Jocko Willink?

  To listen well is the prelude toward pondering carefully and speaking wisely. Listen, gotta listen.

• 2:41:12Jocko Willink?

  To refuse with kindness is more winning than to acquiesce ungraciously. That's a good one. Just, hey, you know what, I don't think that's gonna, rather than, all right.

• 2:41:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41:24Jocko Willink?

  That's like something you gotta deal with with your wife. You know, your wife wants to go do something, you you'd be better to say, you know what, I'm thinking about, let's not do that tonight. Let's do, let's do this other thing instead.

• 2:41:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:41:34Jocko Willink?

  As opposed to, all right, fine, we'll go to your friend's house.

• 2:41:39Jocko Willink?

  Don't want to do that.

• 2:41:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, then act like a dick when you get there.

• 2:41:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. To note another man's mood and become congenial to it is the surest way to engage his confidence. Decisions which are wholly of the heart and not of the mind will ultimately do hurt to both places. Use your logic, don't get emotional. No man will talk freely if met by silence. But an intelligent question encourages frankness above all else.

• 2:42:16Jocko Willink?

  When a man loses possession of himself, it is the more reason that the other should tighten his reserve. Legit.

• 2:42:28Jocko Willink?

  This is a good one. To express pity for a man does not serve to restore him and put him above pity.

• 2:42:38Jocko Willink?

  When a man is so burdened by a personal problem that it shuts out all else, he must be led to something else. And the last one here, imprudent tactics can undo the wisest strategy. And that happens at every level. It happens in war, it happens in business. Got a great strategy, but the guys on the ground are really not doing it tactically well. Doesn't matter, the strategy, you're gonna fail. Finally, in counseling, like all else in military life, has a combat purpose.

• 2:43:14Jocko Willink?

  Other things being equal, the tactical unity of men working together in combat will be in ratio to their knowledge and sympathetic understanding of each other. Whatever the cause, aloofness on the part of the officer can only produce a further withdraw on that part of the man.

• 2:43:38Jocko Willink?

  Aloofness.

• 2:43:42Jocko Willink?

  Now, the last section of this book was really devastating on my highlighter. It's called Americans in Combat.

• 2:43:56Jocko Willink?

  The command and control of men in combat can be mastered by junior leaders of American forces short of actual experience under enemy fire. It is altogether possible for a young officer, his first time in battle, to be in total possession of his faculties and moving by instinct to do the right thing, provided that he has made the most of his training opportunities.

• 2:44:20Jocko Willink?

  Exercise in the maneuvering of men is only an elementary introduction to this educational process. The basic requirement is a continuing study, first of the nature of men, second of the techniques which produce unified action, and last, of the history of past operations, which are covered by an abundant literature. That's how you gotta get ready for combat, those things right there. Now, there are a few simple and fundamental propositions which the armed services subscribe in saying to officer corps what may be expected of the average man of the United States under battle conditions. Generally speaking, they have held true of Americans in times past from Lexington to

• 2:45:05Jocko Willink?

  Okinawa. The fighting establishment builds its discipline, training, code of conduct, and public policy around these ideas, believing that what served yesterday will also be the one best way tomorrow. And for so long as our traditions and our system of freedom survives, these propositions are. "When led with courage and intelligence, an American will fight as willingly and as efficiently as any fighter in world history." I concur with that. "His keenness and endurance in war will be in proportion to the zeal and inspiration of his leadership."

• 2:45:49Jocko Willink?

  He is resourceful and imaginative, and the best results will always flow from encouraging him to use his brain along with his spirit. "Under combat conditions, he will reserve his greatest loyalty for the officer who is most resourceful in the tactical employment of his forces and most careful to avoid unnecessary losses." So, the soldier's gonna know if you're throwing bodies away, they're gonna know it. And same thing in the business world. I've worked with a lot of companies where they do their utmost to, let's say there's a downturn in the market, and they're gonna fire some people, and they do their best

• 2:46:34Jocko Willink?

  to mitigate that. That develops loyalty. That makes them fight harder when the market turns back around. Now, sometimes that can be a problem, because people try and be so loyal that they run their business in the ground, and they fail.

• 2:46:49Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, except on a Hollywood lot, there is no such thing as an American fighter type. Our best men come in all colors, shapes, and sizes. They appear from every section of the nation, including the territories. In battle, Americans do not tend to fluctuate between emotional extremes, in complete dejection one day and exultation the next according to the changes in the situation. They continue on the whole on a fairly even keel, when the going is tough and when things are breaking their way.

• 2:47:30Jocko Willink?

  Even when heavily shocked by battle losses, they tend to bound back quickly. Though their griping is incessant, their natural outlook is on the optimistic side and they react unfavorably to the officer who looks eternally on the dark side. Next, during battle, American officers are not expected either to drive their men, or to be forever in the van, as if praying to be shot. So the van is like on the front lines, the front of your formation. So long as they are with their men, taking the same chances as their men and showing

• 2:48:12Jocko Willink?

  a firm grasp of the situation and of the line of action which should be followed, the men will go forward. In any situation of extreme pressure, or moral exhaustion, where men cannot otherwise be rallied and led forward, officers are expected to do the actual, physical act of leading, such as performing as first scout or point, even though this means taking over what would normally be an enlisted man's function. The normal, next, the normal, gregarious American is not at his best when playing a lone-handed or tactically isolated part in battle.

• 2:48:56Jocko Willink?

  He is not a kamikaze or a one-man torpedo. Consequently, the best tactical results obtained from those dispositions and methods which link the power of one man to that of another.

• 2:49:10Jocko Willink?

  Men who feel strange with their unit, having been carelessly received by it and indifferently handled, will rarely, if ever, fight strongly and courageously. But if treated with common decency and respect, they will perform like men.

• 2:49:28Jocko Willink?

  So that's just talking about when you check in somewhere. You know, you check, if you're in the military and you get somebody that checks in, take care of them, welcome them. If you're at a company and somebody checks in, take care of them, welcome them, show them around, assign them a mentor, get them in the game.

• 2:49:43Jocko Willink?

  To lie to American troops to cover up a blunder in combat rarely serves any valid purpose. They have a good sense of combat and an uncanny instinct for ferreting out the truth when anything goes wrong tactically. They will excuse mistakes, but they will not forgive being treated like children.

• 2:50:09Jocko Willink?

  Basic leadership.

• 2:50:14Jocko Willink?

  Good one here. When spit and polish are laid on so heavily that they become onerous, and the ranks cannot see any legitimate connection between the requirements and the development of an attitude which will serve a clear fighting purpose, it is to be questioned that the exactions serve any good object, whatever. So again, I'm, I'm like leaning in the SEAL teams, I'm probably the extreme level of, of military bearing and uniformity. But I'm definitely not a believer that, you know, you got everything, every single thing spit and polish all day long, no.

• 2:50:53Jocko Willink?

  And they're saying clearly here that if you go so far in that direction and people don't make any sense of it, it's not going to be good.

• 2:51:00Jocko Willink?

  I mean, even picture, you know, you know, Hackworth was like Mr. Spit and Polish. Look at pictures of Hackworth in Vietnam. He wouldn't even wear a rank, you know, he looked like a regular soldier, he didn't look any exquisite parade. Matter of fact, he makes fun of the guys from the, that come into the camp that look like they're in parade ground uniforms.

• 2:51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I saw a quote, it's like yesterday, said,

• 2:51:21Speaker 01

  A spotless house is the sign of a wasted life, which when I saw it, I I tend to like, I don't know, disagree with a lot because it like it basically takes one kind of perspective and like makes it into this like thing.

• 2:51:37Speaker 01

  But of I I like with this one, I was like, well, or it means you clean your house all the time. That's what you know, or maybe your discipline, you have, you know, you

• 2:51:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:47Speaker 01

  You clean your stuff, including your house. I don't know. Maybe you take care of your house. Maybe you're a clean person. That's not a wasted life, by the way.

• 2:51:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I think I think that's just an extreme statement, but I think the underlying message is, you know, hey, live a little.

• 2:52:01Speaker 01

  Is basically, yeah, in a way, it's kind of the message there is kind of what you're saying.

• 2:52:05Jocko Willink?

  You if you take it literally, yeah, that could you could you could go too far down that road.

• 2:52:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:09Jocko Willink?

  Just take it as

• 2:52:12Jocko Willink?

  a message. I think the message is fairly clear and I I somewhat agree with it, you know?

• 2:52:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, like you spent your whole life making sure everything in your house is clean.

• 2:52:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know, they say also like the the highly polished samurai sword that's never been used in battle is a lot less valuable to me than the than the switchblade knife that's rusty from blood.

• 2:52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:52:35Jocko Willink?

  K bar that's rusty from blood.

• 2:52:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:39Jocko Willink?

  Next one.

• 2:52:42Jocko Willink?

  On the other hand, because standards of discipline and courtesy are designed for the express purpose of furthering control under the extraordinary frictions and pressures of the battlefield. Their maintenance under combat conditions is as necessary as during training. Smartness and respect are the marks of military alertness, no matter how trying the circumstances. But courtesy starts at the top in the dealing of any officer with his subordinates and in the decent regard for their loyalty, intelligence and manhood. So even though you can't be over disciplined, you still want to have the discipline.

• 2:53:22Jocko Willink?

  Next, though Americans enjoy relatively a bountiful and even luxurious standard of living in their home environment, they do not have to be pampered, spoon-fed, or overfilled with every comfort and convenience to keep them steadfast and devoted once war comes. They are by nature rugged men, and in the field they will respond most perfectly when called on to play a rugged part. Soft handling will soften even the best men. But even the weak man will develop a new vigor and confidence in the face of necessary hardship

• 2:54:05Jocko Willink?

  if moved by a leadership which is courageously making the best of a bad situation. It's just awesome. Soft handling will soften even the best men. And the weak man will come around for a necessary hardship. You notice they put that word in there, "necessary", not just beating them up for no reason. They gotta see why it is. Next, extravagance and wastefulness is somewhat rooted in the American character because of our mode of life. When our men enter the military service, there's a strong holdover from their civilian habits. Even under fighting conditions, they tend to be wasteful of drinking water, food, ammunition, and other vital supply

• 2:54:48Jocko Willink?

  when such things are made too accessible. They tend to throw them away rather than conserve them in the general interests. This is a distinct weakness during combat. When conservation of all supply is a touchstone of success, the regulating of all supply and the preventing of waste in any form is the prime obligation of every officer.

• 2:55:15Jocko Willink?

  Be frugal.

• 2:55:19Jocko Willink?

  Next, under the conditions of battle. Any extra work, exercise, maneuver, or marching which does not serve a clear and direct operational purpose is unjustifiable. The supreme object is to keep men as physically fresh and mentally alert as possible. Tired men take fright and are half whipped before the battle opens. Worn out officers cannot make clear decisions. The conservation of men's powers, not the exhaustion thereof, is a successful way of operations.

• 2:55:55Jocko Willink?

  Next, when forces are committed to combat, it is vital that not one unnecessary pound be put on any man's back. Lightness of foot is the key to speed of movement and the increase of firepower. In judging of these things, every officer's thought should be on the optimistic side. It is better to take the chance that men will manage to get by on a little less than to overload them through over cautious reckoning of every possible contingency, thereby destroying their power to do anything effectively.

• 2:56:31Jocko Willink?

  Every pound counts. They used to, when I was at a Team Two, they had winter warfare platoons. And so you'd be up burning calories on skis. And those guys were so anal about making their gear as light as possible, was pretty impressive. So, you know, when you got a backpack or something and it's got straps, you know, that you can loosen up or tighten up? They would, through the whole backpack, they would cut off, any excess strap would be gone. Just to get everything as light as possible.

• 2:57:06Speaker 01

  It's kind of a good strategy to follow when you travel, you know?

• 2:57:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:10Speaker 01

  You know how like?

• 2:57:11Jocko Willink?

  Yes. You know what the funny thing is too is I've got this now. I've got this pretty down where I was like, you know what, if I buy, if I don't have this, if I don't bring this and I need it, I'm just gonna buy it.

• 2:57:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:57:20Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna go to wherever and buy it.

• 2:57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:57:22Jocko Willink?

  No factor.

• 2:57:23Speaker 01

  Yep. Yeah. And uh, cause there's kind of those two like, what do you, I don't know, schools of thought. I don't know, whatever. Two ways to think about it where the person is like, I might need it, so I'm gonna bring it. Another person is like, if I can't think of a specific time that I'm gonna need this on the strip, I'm not gonna bring it. And just like how you say, if I need it, I'll buy it there.

• 2:57:43Jocko Willink?

  Travel light, freeze at night.

• 2:57:46Speaker 01

  Yes. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that.

• 2:57:50Jocko Willink?

  Next, unity of action develops from fullness of information. In combat, all ranks have to know what is being done and why it is being done. If confusion is to be kept to a minimum, this holds true in all types of operations, whatever the service.

• 2:58:10Jocko Willink?

  However, a surplus of information clouds the mind and may sometimes depress the spirit. We can take one example, a commander might be confronted by a complex situation and his solution may be a continuing operation in three distinct phases. It would be advisable that all hands be told the complete detail of phase A, but it might be equally sensible that his subordinates, only his subordinates who are closest to him be made fully informed about phase B and phase C. All plans in combat are subject to modification as to circumstances dictate. This being the case, it is not better, it is better not to muddle the men by filling their minds with a seemingly conflict of ideas, a conflict in ideas.

• 2:58:55Jocko Willink?

  More important still, if the grand object seems too vast and formidable, even the first step toward it may be, appear doubly difficult. Fullness of information does not void the other principle that one thing at a time, carefully organized all down the line is the surest way. Prioritize and execute.

• 2:59:18Jocko Willink?

  There is no, next, there is no excuse for a lingering or cowardice during battle. Is the task of leadership to stop it by whatever means would seem to be the surest cure, always making certain that in doing so, it will not make a matter worse.

• 2:59:37Jocko Willink?

  Next. The armed services recognize that there are occasional individuals who nervous and spiritual makeup may be such that they erode rapidly and may suffer complete breakdown under combat conditions. They still may be wholly loyal and conscientious men capable of doing duty elsewhere.

• 2:59:58Jocko Willink?

  Men are not alike, in some, however willing the spirit, the flesh may be too weak. To punish, degrade, or in any way humiliate such men is not more cruel than ignorant. When the good faith of any individual has been repeatedly demonstrated in earlier service, he deserves the benefit of the doubt from his superior pending study of his case by medical authority. But if the man has been a bad actor consistently, his officers warranted in proceeding on the assumption that his combat failure is just one more grave moral dereliction. To fail to take proper action against such a man can only work unusual hardship on the majority trying to do the duty.

• 3:00:44Jocko Willink?

  Next. The United States abides by the laws of war. Its armed forces in dealing with, in their dealings with all other peoples are expected to comply with the laws of war in the spirit and to the letter. In waging war, we do not terrorize helpless noncombatants if it is within our power to avoid doing so. Wanton killing, torture, cruelty, or the working of unusual and unnecessary hardship on enemy prisoners or populations is not justified under any circumstance.

• 3:01:22Jocko Willink?

  Likewise, respect for the reign of law, as that term is understood by the United States, is expected to follow the flag wherever it goes. Pillaging, looting, and other excesses are as immoral, as unmoral, where Americans are operating under military law as they are living together under civil code.

• 3:01:46Jocko Willink?

  Nonetheless, some men in the American services will loot and destroy properly unless they are restrained by fear of punishment. War loosens violence and disorder. It inflames passions and makes it relatively easy for the individual to get away with unlawful actions. But it does not lessen the gravity of his offense or make it less necessary that constituted authority put him down. The main safeguard against lawlessness and hooliganism in any armed body is the integrity of its officers. When men know that their commander is absolutely opposed to such excesses and will take forceful

• 3:02:30Jocko Willink?

  action to repress any breach of discipline, they will conform. But when an officer winks at any degradation by his men, it is no different than if he had committed the act. Remember that one, young leaders out there on the battlefield. An officer winks at any degradation of his men is no different than if he had committed the act. And if you hold the discipline, if you hold the discipline, they will conform. If they know where you fall, where you stand, I should say, if they know where you stand, they will conform.

• 3:03:13Jocko Willink?

  Next, on the field of sport, Americans always talk it up to keep nerves steady and to generate confidence. The need is even greater on the field of war and the same treatment will have no less effect. When men are afraid, they go silent. Silence of itself further intensifies the fear. The resumption of speech is the beginning of thoughtful, collected action. For self-evidently, two or more men cannot join strength and work intelligently together until they know one another's thoughts. Consequently, all training is an exercise in getting men to open up and become articulate,

• 3:03:57Jocko Willink?

  even as it is a process in conditioning them physically to move strongly together.

• 3:04:06Jocko Willink?

  Once again, step and even talking is action that starts to dispel fear.

• 3:04:14Jocko Willink?

  Next, inspection is more important in the face of the enemy than during training because a fouled piece of, a fouled piece may mean a lost battle, an overlooked sick man may infect a fortress, and a mislaid message can cost a war. In virtue of his position, every junior leader is an inspector, and the obligation to make certain that his force at all times is inspection proof is unremitting.

• 3:04:42Jocko Willink?

  And the last one I'm going to read to close out this book is here. "In battle crisis, a majority of Americans present, present will respond to any man who has the will and the brains to give them a clear, intelligent order.

• 3:05:01Jocko Willink?

  They will follow the lowest ranking man present if he obviously knows what he is doing and is morally the master of the situation.

• 3:05:12Jocko Willink?

  But they will not obey a chucklehead if he has nothing in his favor but his rank."

• 3:05:26Jocko Willink?

  And that's, that's it for this book, and I think that closing statement.

• 3:05:35Jocko Willink?

  Don't be a chucklehead. Don't be a chucklehead, and we, this, this is talked about earlier, that they will follow the lowest man, the lowest making, ranking man present if he knows what he's doing and is the, is morally the master of the situation, and can give a clear, intelligent order.

• 3:05:57Jocko Willink?

  And I think the rest of the, you know, if you're a chucklehead, people aren't going to listen to you just because of your rank, and I talk about that all the time, you shouldn't use your rank.

• 3:06:08Jocko Willink?

  And I think this book actually, you know, gives some pretty, some pretty obvious ways to avoid being a chucklehead. Be humble, be calm, educate yourself, work out hard, physical. Physicality is important. It's all the stuff, same stuff that we talk about all the time. And again, these are universal. And I know we got a lot of listeners that are overseas. This stuff was, this is applying to Americans, but this applies basically worldwide.

• 3:06:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:06:42Jocko Willink?

  At least Western world. And they've stood the test of time. They work today. So follow them. And

• 3:06:56Jocko Willink?

  hold the line. And lead, lead in everything you do and start by leading yourself with these principles. Because if you can't, there's no way that you can lead others. If you can't lead yourself. And I'll tell you, um, we're a little over the three hour mark right now, so it doesn't look like we're going to be doing Q and A this episode. So if anyone is out there still listening at this point, and they want to know how to support the podcast. Echo, tell them how to do it.

• 3:07:39Speaker 01

  Well, there's a few ways. Yeah. So let's start with the, a lot of times I feel like I'm, it's just like kind of repetitive.

• 3:07:48Jocko Willink?

  Well, it is repetitive.

• 3:07:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:07:50Jocko Willink?

  And since we've already had people listening for three plus hours at this point, we can feel free to move quickly, I think.

• 3:07:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. But here's the thing though.

• 3:07:59Jocko Willink?

  Oh, there's a but.

• 3:08:00Speaker 01

  I did, yeah, I did more thinking. Where what if this is the first time somebody was listening? Or maybe the second time it won't be as repetitive.

• 3:08:10Jocko Willink?

  Okay, but if it's a person that they're going to listen to other ones, they're going to go back.

• 3:08:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:08:18Jocko Willink?

  And they can listen to one of those episodes. That's an hour and a half.

• 3:08:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08:21Jocko Willink?

  They're gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna listen to a little bit more. But right now.

• 3:08:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:08:25Jocko Willink?

  If we go long right now.

• 3:08:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08:27Jocko Willink?

  They may not listen at all.

• 3:08:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08:28Jocko Willink?

  Now, some people say, oh, it's fun. We like that. No.

• 3:08:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:08:33Jocko Willink?

  Nothing is fun after three hours.

• 3:08:34Speaker 01

  No, I don't know.

• 3:08:35Jocko Willink?

  I went long.

• 3:08:36Speaker 01

  Well, in.

• 3:08:36Jocko Willink?

  There's so much good information in this book, though. I went long. I'm sorry. But. I'm not really sorry. There's good information.

• 3:08:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the game. It's good.

• 3:08:45Jocko Willink?

  But. I think we could proceed quickly. That's what I think.

• 3:08:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. I dig it.

• 3:08:50Jocko Willink?

  I'm not saying no banter. You know, I know you've got things you want to talk about.

• 3:08:53Speaker 01

  I'm not even gonna.

• 3:08:53Jocko Willink?

  With the stuff, but.

• 3:08:54Speaker 01

  I'm gonna avoid the banter. The key here is really the, okay, look, I could, okay, we'll go, we'll go into it. On it. Supplementation. You know, sometime, sometimes, hey, I don't eat supplements. I have a great diet, or I'm just not into it just in general. I have to. Successfully convey the importance of supplementation, or at the very least, the value.

• 3:09:18Jocko Willink?

  Go ahead.

• 3:09:19Speaker 01

  So I'm not gonna banter with you. I'm just gonna go ahead and get after it right here. As far as we, because you can, anyway, all right. Enough of chocka, real quick. On it. Supplements, if you didn't already know. Krill oil or EDC, okay, our EDC, everyday consumption of supplements, essential krill oil for your joints. And this is good because the legit one, it's not the one where they. Kill a bunch of krill, grind them up, and then sell them to you. It's like the real deal that helps you. I could tell you the story about how it helped me, but.

• 3:09:54Jocko Willink?

  Listen to the other, listen to the other fifty-two podcasts if you want to hear that story.

• 3:09:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, just understand if you're going for results. On it, supplements, krill oil, EDC, krill oil, alpha brain, shroom tech.

• 3:10:08Speaker 01

  Warrior bars, even though those aren't really supplements, they're like.

• 3:10:10Jocko Willink?

  But you do eat them every day.

• 3:10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, everyday consumption. And I got the uh, the pre-workout.

• 3:10:17Jocko Willink?

  How was that?

• 3:10:18Speaker 01

  Good.

• 3:10:18Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna give it a shot.

• 3:10:19Speaker 01

  Non-stimulant, by the way. So you're not jittery, yeah, nothing like this. And it's um, it's like, there's like earth grown ingredients in there as well. Good, actually tastes good.

• 3:10:30Jocko Willink?

  You know, so Onnit calls things earth grown ingredients. I'm just gonna, I know it sounds cool. Where else are they grown? Space?

• 3:10:40Jocko Willink?

  Or subterranean or something? What's up? Why are they trying to make it sound cool? It's cool, it's good stuff. How would they say that?

• 3:10:46Speaker 01

  Well, the answer, the answer to that is lab grown. If you can grow stuff in the lab or just concoct it, you know, chemically in the lab. So I'm just saying that's the differentiator.

• 3:10:57Jocko Willink?

  You win.

• 3:10:57Speaker 01

  Which is good.

• 3:10:58Jocko Willink?

  You win. Earth grown is actually cool.

• 3:11:00Speaker 01

  It's a good thing.

• 3:11:01Jocko Willink?

  Sound cool, okay.

• 3:11:02Speaker 01

  And, and eh, if there's any more questions.

• 3:11:06Jocko Willink?

  I was thinking, I was thinking moon base alpha.

• 3:11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if you can indicate the benefits of anything moon grown, I'm sure that they would provide that on the website or whatever. That's where I get the information. Anyway. Alpha brain is proven as well. That's the thing. With nootropics, nootropics to help your brain. A lot of times people will be like, ah, that's a placebo thing. They went through the real test to prove that it works. Proven. Scientifically fact that it's dope. Anyway. Onnit.com slash Jocko, get 10% off if you want 10% off. If you don't want 10% off, just go Onnit.com. Pay full price, boom. Support everybody, everything, whatever, whatever.

• 3:11:45Jocko Willink?

  No, you're actually not supporting anybody. And you're definitely not supporting us if you don't do that. That's cool.

• 3:11:50Speaker 01

  Well, technically it is, cuz it's like, you're still getting your supplements, you know? You're still getting supplementation. We're just not getting the credit. So just like, if like, you donate to a cause and you put anonymous in the thing. And then you donate another 10%, same thing. See what I'm saying? Anyway.

• 3:12:10Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna just let this one go.

• 3:12:11Speaker 01

  That's a good way.

• 3:12:12Jocko Willink?

  Cuz I realize I'm guilty for making these things longer cuz I'm interjecting. I should just be quiet.

• 3:12:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, just be quiet. What's your podcast? You say whatever you like, right?

• 3:12:22Jocko Willink?

  It's our podcast. Come on.

• 3:12:24Speaker 01

  So Onnit is one of the ways to support, to wrap it up, onnit.com/jocko. Get 10% off, um, help, it's, they're good. Just trust me, they're good.

• 3:12:36Speaker 01

  Another good way. Christmas is almost here, man. It's like, what, four, three, four days, something like that.

• 3:12:43Jocko Willink?

  Something like that.

• 3:12:44Speaker 01

  If you shop in Amazon, click through the website.

• 3:12:49Speaker 01

  That's a good way to support.

• 3:12:50Jocko Willink?

  Click through the website that's called jocko store.com or called jockopodcast.com.

• 3:12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:12:56Jocko Willink?

  Cause that's the website you gotta click through.

• 3:12:58Speaker 01

  Correct. Yes. jockopodcast.com. Over on the side, there's an Amazon little banner. Click on that one before you do your Amazon shopping for Christmas or whatever, or buying any one of these books that that Jaco talks about. On the Jocko store, you gotta go on the menu item, support, and then it'll take you to the page with the banner.

• 3:13:15Jocko Willink?

  Hey, speaking of which, Podcast 100, as we talked about when Tim was on this podcast, Tim Ferriss was on this podcast. We're gonna do Musashi

• 3:13:25Jocko Willink?

  for Podcast 100, cause it's a big, big, big book.

• 3:13:28Speaker 01

  Already mentioned that.

• 3:13:29Jocko Willink?

  We need to get it on the pod, uh, so that will be on the website. So you can buy that book now, cause it's a thick book and we're gonna do it for Podcast 100.

• 3:13:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:13:37Jocko Willink?

  You can click through. The other thing is that's beneficial about these ways of supporting the podcast. No advertisements on the podcast, except for this here, which I guess could be considered an advertisement. But I don't wanna have the, and now for a commercial break.

• 3:13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:13:55Jocko Willink?

  We would like to present.

• 3:13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:13:58Jocko Willink?

  Something that doesn't matter.

• 3:14:00Speaker 01

  Are you tired of sleeping?

• 3:14:02Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 3:14:03Speaker 01

  You know, that kind of stuff. Yeah. So yeah, the Amazon click, that's a good one. That's like, um, cause it doesn't cost you nothing. It's like super easy. And it's like, you're kinda just in the whole game of just, you know, reinforcements, support. Amazon, click through the website before you do your shopping. Boom. You can also subscribe to the podcast. I know that seems obvious, but sometimes.

• 3:14:25Jocko Willink?

  You know, back to this, you know, you talk about this sometimes, Amazon. So you can click through Amazon, right? Let's say you're gonna buy something that's not expensive, like a, like a bunch of pens.

• 3:14:38Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 3:14:38Jocko Willink?

  Or some duct tape.

• 3:14:39Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 3:14:39Jocko Willink?

  You might think, ah, man, I'm just gonna go directly to Amazon, cuz that's no big deal.

• 3:14:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:14:43Jocko Willink?

  We don't need to support the podcast on this purchase.

• 3:14:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:14:46Jocko Willink?

  There's two problems with that. Number one, if no one bought their duct tape without clicking through, we wouldn't get any of the benefit of having the site there. The other thing is, you gotta exercise daily discipline in all things. If you get, my point is that if you get in the habit of doing it, then you'll be in the habit. Otherwise, if you only do it sometimes, then the time you go out and buy a lawnmower, then, you know, or some, somebody bought a set of golf clubs, remember that guy, he's like, I just bought some ball golf. Thousand dollar set of golf clubs, clubs, he clicked through.

• 3:15:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15:20Jocko Willink?

  So that, that definitely supports the podcast.

• 3:15:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15:22Jocko Willink?

  But it's because he had the discipline, the, the reinforced reiteration of doing it all the time. So just do it, just do it all the time. That's my recommendation.

• 3:15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is true, man, cuz that's kind of the key is like to remember to do it. And here's the.

• 3:15:38Jocko Willink?

  And everyone's duct tape counts.

• 3:15:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And, and here's the thing, like, you're under no obligation to do that. I'm just saying, most times, you'd be like, hey, I wanna support the podcast, it's cool, cuz, you know,

• 3:15:52Speaker 01

  but at the time of, you know, hey, I need my duct tape, I go, I do it, I buy the duct tape, and it's like, oh, ah, I forgot.

• 3:15:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:58Speaker 01

  You know, just to kind of avoid that kind of situation. If you have it in your mind, that's really the key is to remember to do it.

• 3:16:05Jocko Willink?

  Then you're living with the guilt.

• 3:16:06Speaker 01

  Oh, man, barely can go on. Anyway, yeah. So, yeah, do that, um, or subscribe to the podcast, or, and subscribe to the podcast, I should say.

• 3:16:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 3:16:16Speaker 01

  It seems obvious on iTunes, you subscribe, but I don't know, if you haven't already, hey, subscribe, that's a good way to support, and leave a review, man, if, if you're compelled to. Those reviews are pretty dope, by the way. Subscribe on YouTube. We are along with the podcast and video format. We'll do some excerpts, stuff you can share with people that they don't, they don't have to commit to three hours and you know however long the case may be to listen to the whole podcast. They can just listen to the you know, three minute, one minute, five minute even, you know, things about.

• 3:16:49Jocko Willink?

  Whatever the case may be.

• 3:16:51Speaker 01

  About whatever little excerpts, you know. I, I think those are beneficial. I think. When people share that kind with me.

• 3:17:00Speaker 01

  I think you can learn a lot.

• 3:17:02Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 3:17:04Speaker 01

  I think there's, you know, a lot to be said for it.

• 3:17:06Jocko Willink?

  I think I agree with you.

• 3:17:07Speaker 01

  Or. We have a store. Jocko has a store. It's called.

• 3:17:12Jocko Willink?

  Now you say, I have a store. We have a store, not my store.

• 3:17:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, but if I say Jocko has a store, it's called Jocko Store. It just sounds kind of cooler.

• 3:17:21Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 3:17:22Speaker 01

  So I was trying to do.

• 3:17:23Jocko Willink?

  Original name too.

• 3:17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So I was trying to do that, but kind of interrupted, but that's cool. It's your podcast. There's some cool shirts on there. Some layers on the shirts. I'm gonna let you look at the layers.

• 3:17:36Speaker 01

  I'm gonna let you see the layers on your own. So go to jockostore.com.

• 3:17:41Speaker 01

  See if you can find the layers on the shirts. I'm not saying to buy a shirt or a tank top or a hoodie or, or I'm not saying to buy one. But if you feel compelled to buy one because you think they're cool, the layers hit you, they resonate with you. I don't like the word resonate. I'm gonna use it anyway. If they resonate with you, get a shirt. That's a good way to support.

• 3:18:03Speaker 01

  Some patches too.

• 3:18:06Speaker 01

  You know, the, the ones that with the Velcro, the regulation, those are on there too. Per your and other people's requests.

• 3:18:12Jocko Willink?

  We had a lot of military and law enforcement that wanted. Yeah. Regulation size.

• 3:18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:18:18Jocko Willink?

  So they can represent in the field.

• 3:18:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:18:20Jocko Willink?

  As they're crushing evil in the world.

• 3:18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. So yeah, they're on there too. And whatever else, you know, you think is cool. I'm gonna redo the mugs. They're gonna be like, like a special, like one. Like a super high quality one.

• 3:18:33Jocko Willink?

  The travel mugs.

• 3:18:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, the travel mugs. And then, um, yeah, there you go. And then, uh, psychological warfare. See, that was, that turned out good.

• 3:18:42Jocko Willink?

  It did. I was listening to your explanation of what psychological warfare was. You need to listen to it. It is unclear. You, you, you told the story, but it was like, you know, we're talking to each other right now.

• 3:18:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:18:55Jocko Willink?

  And you were telling, you were kind of telling me the story.

• 3:18:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:18:57Jocko Willink?

  But I know a bunch about it. So when I listened to it, I said, you know what? People that aren't, that don't know what this is, are gonna wonder what this is. Echo asked me some questions about what I'm thinking about in certain situations of weakness.

• 3:19:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:19:11Jocko Willink?

  Right? Certain situations of weaknesses. And he asked me a couple of minutes, and I kind of told him, like, off the cuff, oh, I think about this and this. And he's kind of got that look in his face when I, I know he's thinking of something. So I said, oh, he's thinking of something. And then the next day, you know, hey, we gotta do, record these. So he, we came up with some more questions that Echo was like, oh, this is a good one. This is a good one. Came up with the questions. And then I wrote down the answers and I read them into a microphone. We recorded it because that's what Echo does. And then he said, hey, I'm gonna make this into, because people ask for ringtones. They want to be able to awake to, I guess they want to feel the wake to me.

• 3:19:55Speaker 01

  Alarm clock.

• 3:19:56Jocko Willink?

  Alarm clock stuff. So he said, I'm gonna put these on iTunes and put them for sale. And I said, oh, well, if that's what you think. So he, the album is called, so it's an album of clips. They're like two or three minutes long.

• 3:20:11Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:20:12Jocko Willink?

  They're from, they're for, they're for psychological warfare against moments of weakness.

• 3:20:17Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 3:20:18Jocko Willink?

  And where do the moments of weakness come? When you want to get up in the morning. So there's, there's actually, because I know that's a hard one for people.

• 3:20:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:20:25Jocko Willink?

  There's three psychological attacks against the weakness of not getting out of bed in the morning. There's psychological warfare against wanting to eat bad food. There's psychological warfare against procrastination. Just moments of weakness are covered in the psychological warfare album.

• 3:20:41Speaker 01

  Very well covered.

• 3:20:42Jocko Willink?

  And it's for sale on iTunes. And you, you gotta search for Jocko Willink or Psychological Warfare. It's a little bit hard to find because of the way iTunes is laid out because it's in spoken word, but that doesn't drop down under music. Anyways, it's kind of hard to find.

• 3:20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:20:57Jocko Willink?

  But it is on there. And it's for sale. And that is in fact, another way to support the podcast.

• 3:21:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:21:02Jocko Willink?

  Because it is for sale. Because people want to support the podcast. And so they say, hey, you know, how can we support the podcast? And they, you know, we used to say, people say, oh, do you have this thing where you can donate money? We'll just give you money. I don't want you just to give me money. I want to give you something. If you, you, you just don't give me money. I'm not going to take it.

• 3:21:22Speaker 01

  Well.

• 3:21:23Jocko Willink?

  Well, there's been a couple of people that have given money, which is awesome. We appreciate it. But for the general, for, for my general, uh, uh, conscience, right?

• 3:21:32Speaker 01

  Reciprocation.

• 3:21:33Jocko Willink?

  Want to give you something back. So here's what we give you. You give us money for the iTunes album. You get something back. And you know what you get back? Discipline in MP3 format. That's what you get.

• 3:21:45Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:21:45Jocko Willink?

  So check it out. They're pretty, they're, they're funny. There are no screaming, but they're, they're getting after it. And the feedback that I've gotten is awesome. Like everyone on Twitter is like, yeah, I've been out of bed every time.

• 3:21:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:21:55Jocko Willink?

  I over, you know, I didn't procrastinate on this project. And Debbie said, I got, got this project done a week early. Cause I didn't want to procrastinate.

• 3:22:03Speaker 01

  Yep. But two, two side notes to that one. If you're going to do the alarm clock thing, I said this last time.

• 3:22:11Speaker 01

  Clear it with your, whoever you're sleeping with, your wife or whatever. Just make sure they have the heads up because if they hear it, they're going to flip out.

• 3:22:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And they won't flip out because I'm going crazy. They'll flip out because all of a sudden there's a man in the room.

• 3:22:23Speaker 01

  Talking. Yes.

• 3:22:24Jocko Willink?

  And that's enough to freak somebody out.

• 3:22:25Speaker 01

  Okay. You got, you know, one. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of go over it, you know, go over the plan.

• 3:22:31Jocko Willink?

  You don't want to freak people out.

• 3:22:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:22:32Jocko Willink?

  You having your, having your significant other reaching for their sidearm.

• 3:22:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't want that.

• 3:22:37Jocko Willink?

  Putting the laser on, around the room, searching.

• 3:22:40Speaker 01

  And a second side note. Good feedback for sure. But it's been, I look at the stats sometimes. It's been number one. In spoken word category on iTunes. Number one.

• 3:22:54Jocko Willink?

  That's.

• 3:22:54Speaker 01

  And there's some other good people on that list, but it's not, it's been number one.

• 3:22:57Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome.

• 3:22:58Speaker 01

  I think since I put, we put it on there.

• 3:23:00Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 3:23:01Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 3:23:01Jocko Willink?

  Well, thank you, everyone. That's everyone that's. Yeah. Everyone that's, that's picking that up. Thank you. Appreciate that. It's awesome.

• 3:23:08Speaker 01

  But yeah, those are yeah, solid ways to support.

• 3:23:11Jocko Willink?

  Couple of other ways that you can support this one is you can get some Jocko White Tea. It's pomegranate white tea. There's some pomegranate in there. Can get some of that stuff. If you haven't gotten it and you think, I don't like tea. You're wrong. Because you haven't tried this tea. Cause it tastes, it doesn't taste, I'm telling you, it doesn't taste, I don't know what it tastes like. You know what it tastes like? It tastes like what it tastes like. There's nothing else that you can compare it to. It just tastes good, really good. And it's got a little bit of caffeine in it. You can actually drink it before you go to bed if you need to. It you won't, it won't keep you up. It's not that kind of caffeine. It's a different kinds of, it's earth grown caffeine.

• 3:23:53Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's the kind of caffeine that there's not a lot in there. It's got, it's got antioxidants in there and it tastes really good. And you can have it pre-workout, post-workout, pre-meal, post-meal, pre-bed, after-bed, during-bed. You can get, have it whenever you want. So that's the Jocko White Tea. You can get that. And by the way, it's now been in stock. I'm going on like, like three or four, five days. It's in stock now. We've got a better system. We might have another fade. I got some stuff on the horizon. There might be a little, little dip in the system, but it's in stock in the, in the tin. The luxurious tin. Or the big box, which has a hundred in it.

• 3:24:32Speaker 01

  Right, reload.

• 3:24:32Jocko Willink?

  Reload. And then you can get a mug. You can get a mug, by the way. The mug, it'll tell you what to do. It'll tell you what to do every single time. And what it'll tell you to do is get after it. So you get that mug on there, Jocko approved. And then Extreme Ownership, the book, Christmas, why not get it for every single person you've ever known in your life? You might as well. Now, Extreme Ownership, if you listen to the podcast and you kind of like what we talk about here, the book Extreme Ownership, it's about the same thing. It's about combat leadership. Also, speaking of Extreme Ownership, again, New York City, May 4th and 5th.

• 3:25:12Jocko Willink?

  We're doing the Extreme Ownership muster number 002. The last one was 001 in San Diego. This one is 002, May 4th and 5th at the Marriott. We're going deep on combat leadership, which means we're going deep on all leadership because the principles do not change. The thing that's cool, everybody that's there, everyone's in the game. Everyone's in the game, CEOs, mid-level managers, every industry you can think of. And Leif's gonna be there, Echo's gonna be there, JP's gonna be there in the game with you. You know, we're not hiding behind the curtain, we're not backstage. We'll be interacting, hanging out, doing whatever we gotta do. And I'm telling you, it's gonna sell out.

• 3:25:57Jocko Willink?

  So, register ASAP. I know that Echo is gonna make some videos. And the videos that he's gonna make are gonna show the last muster. And as soon as those videos come out, it's gonna sell out. Cause I've already seen the footage, it looks awesome, it is awesome, it was awesome. And the next one is gonna be awesome. So, so join now, register now. There's discounted tickets if you're law enforcement, firefighters, or military. We got discounted tickets if you wanna ask questions or get that discount. Also, if you have like 10, 12 people coming from your, coming from your company, we can get a discount going there too. You can email [email protected].

• 3:26:41Jocko Willink?

  You can also check out the website, extremeownership.com. Real, original, we thought of that one. And we look forward to seeing you guys there. In the meantime, if, if you wanna kinda kick it with us, we are kicking it ourselves on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram as well, and also we gonna be on that, on that Facebooky boha, we gonna be there. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. And finally,

• 3:27:24Jocko Willink?

  Go out there and execute. And we talk a lot about a lot of different subjects on this podcast and we hear from incredible leaders and the lessons that we learned today, lessons that were learned and lessons that are written in blood.

• 3:27:43Jocko Willink?

  But those lessons are meaningless. They're meaningless if you don't execute on them.

• 3:27:53Jocko Willink?

  If you listen without doing, you might as well not even waste your time. Just keep being arrogant and wasting your time, not being productive and not living up to your potential. Just keep wasting your life if you're not going to execute on what we learned.

• 3:28:15Jocko Willink?

  But if you listen and then you go and you do, then stay on it. And remember also that the rewards don't come easy. Don't count on any glory.

• 3:28:32Jocko Willink?

  Just hold the line and stay on the path so that you know.

• 3:28:42Jocko Willink?

  So that you know that you are in the game 100%.

• 3:28:51Jocko Willink?

  And that you know that you are getting after it.

• 3:29:00Jocko Willink?

  So until next time, this is Echo and Jocko.

• 3:29:07Jocko Willink?

  Out.