46: Jeremiah “JP” Dinnell & Jocko Discuss War, Fighting, and Life

0:00:00 - Opening 0:07:30 - JP Dinnell Intro 0:19:50 - BUDS 0:24:50 - Deployment 1:12:13 - Loss of a Team Mate 1:36:10 - Getting out of The Teams, MMA is a stress reliever. 1:52:12 - Relationship rough patch. 2:08:12 - Living in the Moment 2:18:10 - Internet, Onnit, JockoStore stuff 2:37:00 - Closing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 46 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink.

• 0:09Jocko Willink?

  Good evening Echo. Good evening.

• 0:14Jocko Willink?

  There is a little survival instinct.

• 0:22Jocko Willink?

  It's very subtle.

• 0:27Jocko Willink?

  But I would notice it sometimes in a combat situation.

• 0:34Jocko Willink?

  When guys are thinking that enemy fire at any time could open up.

• 0:42Jocko Willink?

  And kill them, you'd see some guys subconsciously. They just, they just try and make themselves a little bit of a smaller target. They just kinda slouch their backs down a little bit and they just kinda bow their head just a tad.

• 1:04Jocko Willink?

  It's not, it's not a bad thing to do. I don't think guys actually think about it. I don't think they consciously do it. I think it just kinda happens.

• 1:16Jocko Willink?

  I think it happens when you think you could get shot at any moment.

• 1:23Jocko Willink?

  And it's likely a good instinct to have.

• 1:30Jocko Willink?

  And when we first got to Ramadi.

• 1:35Jocko Willink?

  We were out on patrol and I saw one of my guys on a real patrol. It's my first time seeing this particular guy on a real patrol. And it was in the Malab district of Ramadi, which was

• 1:51Jocko Willink?

  just an enemy controlled cesspool of violence.

• 1:58Jocko Willink?

  With threats everywhere and as I saw this guy.

• 2:08Jocko Willink?

  He was standing straight up, just standing straight up. His head was held high, his weapon was at the ready. He was scanning. He was hunting. There was no slouch in his back, there was no lowering of his head, there was no fear apparent on his face or in his posture. He was just boldly facing the threat, standing tall.

• 2:44Jocko Willink?

  Now, you've heard me talk about some of my guys in Task Unit Bruiser that I worried about.

• 2:57Jocko Willink?

  I just, some of the guys, I, I thought that they basically had too much courage, too much bravery, and it, and it just didn't seem like that kind of attitude was survivable day after day after day after bloody day in Ramadi.

• 3:27Jocko Willink?

  But somehow, some way, through some divine providence, this particular brave soul did survive and actually thrived in that environment, in the Battle of Ramadi with Task Unit Bruiser.

• 3:48Jocko Willink?

  Now, Task Unit Bruiser was made up of two SEAL platoons, Charlie Platoon and Delta Platoon. And Charlie Platoon, we've talked about before, Leif Babin was the platoon commander, Tony Affrati, who's been on the podcast, BTF Tony, he was the platoon chief, and the lead sniper for Charlie Platoon was, was Chris Kyle.

• 4:14Jocko Willink?

  And in the other platoon, Delta Platoon, where Andrew Paul, who's also been on the podcast, he was the assistant platoon commander.

• 4:25Jocko Willink?

  And the point man and sniper, the lead point man and lead sniper for Delta Platoon,

• 4:33Jocko Willink?

  was, was that guy, was the guy that I just described, walking through the literal valley of death.

• 4:43Jocko Willink?

  With his head held high.

• 4:51Jocko Willink?

  And his name is Jeremiah Dinnell.

• 4:56Jocko Willink?

  Also known as JP Dinnell. That's what I always called him.

• 5:01Jocko Willink?

  And we have him as a guest on the podcast tonight. Now, when JP was in Task Unit Bruiser, he was a kid.

• 5:12Jocko Willink?

  When we, when we were in workup, I think he was 22 years old. When we deployed, he was 23 years old. And I loved JP. He was like a brother. And to be quite honest with you, he was like a little brother to me.

• 5:29Jocko Willink?

  And I loved his aggressiveness. And when we were going through workup, he would just, just straight up execute anything I told him to do. Anything.

• 5:40Jocko Willink?

  Like a, like a hyper aggressive Terminator robot. I would look at him and say, JP, take that room. Or JP, get on that high ground. Or JP, get those prisoners out of here. And he would just get after it and make it happen and just destroy or outmaneuver anything that was in his way.

• 5:57Jocko Willink?

  Like one, one time we were going through mount training, which is urban warfare. So we're in a kind of a fake city with buildings and all this. And there was a building across the street and we were taking massive paintball fire. Again, it's just training, but we're getting shot up with paintball.

• 6:14Jocko Willink?

  And in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, we're, if this is real, we're getting killed. And I know that we need to get aggressive to stop this and say, I'm kind of give the command of, hey, we need to hit that building across the street. And like, as the last word is coming out of my mouth, I see JP just bust out of the door of the building we're in. Go running across the street with his gun blazing, just caveman smash through the door of the target building. Goes in there and I just see muzzle flashes. He's just machine gunning people. And I thought to myself, okay.

• 6:47Jocko Willink?

  JP can bring it.

• 6:51Jocko Willink?

  At least he can bring it during training.

• 6:55Jocko Willink?

  Because courage against paintball in training is actually not that big of a deal at all. In fact, it's borderline meaningless, but it is an indication.

• 7:10Jocko Willink?

  Now courage in sustained combat is another thing.

• 7:18Jocko Willink?

  And JP proved himself as a true warrior over and over and over again during the Battle of Ramadi.

• 7:28Jocko Willink?

  And I'm honored to have my brother, JP Dinnell, on the podcast today.

• 7:37Jocko Willink?

  JP,

• 7:39Jocko Willink?

  welcome to the show.

• 7:40JP Dinnell?

  Thank you for having me here.

• 7:46Jocko Willink?

  And we have to start with trying to understand

• 7:50Jocko Willink?

  where you come from.

• 7:52JP Dinnell?

  How much time do we have?

• 7:55Jocko Willink?

  Where you grew up and, and all that. And it's pretty cool. I mean, I know, I know your mom and dad and I've actually grappled against your dad.

• 8:07JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. It's one of his highlights. He loves that. He talks about it all the time.

• 8:10Jocko Willink?

  He's a strong, strong man.

• 8:13JP Dinnell?

  Scary strong.

• 8:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 8:15JP Dinnell?

  Like.

• 8:16Jocko Willink?

  And how old, so how old is he now?

• 8:19JP Dinnell?

  He is.

• 8:21JP Dinnell?

  Fifty-four, fifty-five.

• 8:23Jocko Willink?

  No kidding?

• 8:24JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 8:24Jocko Willink?

  So ten years ago, he was my age.

• 8:26JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 8:27Jocko Willink?

  So when I grappled with him, he was my age.

• 8:29JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 8:29Jocko Willink?

  And I thought he was all old.

• 8:31JP Dinnell?

  No.

• 8:32Jocko Willink?

  And right now, if you called me old, I'd be pissed.

• 8:34JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I know you would be.

• 8:35Jocko Willink?

  So, Mr. Danelle, I apologize. I thought you were old back in the day.

• 8:38JP Dinnell?

  Nope.

• 8:38Jocko Willink?

  He grabbed a hold of my head and.

• 8:40JP Dinnell?

  And you were my age that I am right now.

• 8:42Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's crazy, isn't it?

• 8:43JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. Sorry to interrupt.

• 8:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, that's true. So, talk, talk, talk about where you come from.

• 8:50JP Dinnell?

  Uh.

• 8:51Jocko Willink?

  What was I growing up, all that stuff?

• 8:52JP Dinnell?

  Um, I had a good life. My parents are awesome, you know, um, very hard workers. Um, you know, grew up tied on money, you know, my, my dad did construction and framing in the eighties and my mom taught step aerobics. Not a lot of money there.

• 9:08Jocko Willink?

  Get some.

• 9:09JP Dinnell?

  But, uh, they, they just, they constantly worked for our family. It was awesome. Now we, you know, every Sunday we're at church. Um, you know, not having a lot of money to go out and do stuff, we'd go for, for drives, you know, that's what we did. Our family, we'd go for drives and just go, you know, see the, you know, we're in Northern California, Sacramento, within twenty minutes, he can be in the foothills and it's just beautiful. We'd go to my grandparents' property. Um, you know, my dad's parents were a big, a very big part of my, our life as well, growing up. Uh, grandfather's old World War II vet was on the destroyer, on a destroyer. Um, my grandmother's amazing woman, you know, wakes up every morning still at five AM to pray for everybody in the family.

• 9:51JP Dinnell?

  Uh, they have five acres up in the foothills, the pasture with horses. So for kids, it was awesome. Um, you know, brother and sister, um, my parents, you know, they didn't wait for having kids, you know, I had me and then, you know, I think it was like fifteen or no seventeen months later, my brother comes and seventeen months later after that, my sister comes, so. You know, I'm a dad and you have kids.

• 10:14Jocko Willink?

  Irish twins, they call that.

• 10:16JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, it was just like boom, boom, boom. Um, you know, awesome, you know, my brother and my sister, like two of my closest best friends still, you know? Um, we just always used to grow up playing Navy SEALs, you know? And, uh.

• 10:31Jocko Willink?

  Where'd you get, okay, so going into the next question, which, which I am always curious is how did you hear about the teams?

• 10:40JP Dinnell?

  Um, actually, my brother saw something on TV. There's some special about the forming of the SEALs and the, you know, JFK's speech and all this stuff. And he had my parents record it and we would watch that every morning that we could, you know? We're young, you know, we're trying to go to school and my brother's popping that in the VCR. And so every weekend we definitely watched it and then we would, you know, dress up in cammies and paint our faces and stuff that we got from old Army Navy surplus store or just from garage sales and we would go play Navy SEALs, you know? And, uh, we go up to my grandparents is like a haven, you know, and it's, it's funny now, like,

• 11:21JP Dinnell?

  I didn't know what I was doing, but I used to like do make up little ghillie suits. And I would have my parents drop me off at the front entrance of my grandparents' property. I'd wait until I got up to the house and I'd say, hey, I want, I want to see if you can see me sneaking up there. I would try to stalk up to my grandparents' house.

• 11:39Jocko Willink?

  Good training.

• 11:40JP Dinnell?

  I mean, yeah, and, um, you know, so that, you know, it was a really good life, you know? All my, all my aunts and uncles and cousins, you know, we're all really close and, um, just really close family, you know? My uncle, uh, one of my closest uncles, you know, he's a cop, um, back where we grew up and, you know, he's still serving the community. He's a legit badass and, you know, so I was surrounded by a lot of good people that didn't know anything other than working hard. Like you just have to work hard. There's no excuses for that. There's no handouts. Like you've just got to get after it and, uh, and that's just kind of how I learned about the teams and, you know, as you get older in high school, you kind of forget about that stuff, but yeah, it was a pretty good, solid base. Great life.

• 12:22Jocko Willink?

  Did you enlist right out of high school then?

• 12:23JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, yeah, I was in, um, my senior year of high school, um.

• 12:28Jocko Willink?

  What, didn't you break your leg or have some weird situation?

• 12:31JP Dinnell?

  I, I had, I broke my hand.

• 12:32Jocko Willink?

  Broke your hand?

• 12:32JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, so my hand was in a cast.

• 12:35Jocko Willink?

  How'd you do that?

• 12:37JP Dinnell?

  Well, you know.

• 12:39Jocko Willink?

  I just think it's interesting that you just told this story of this kind of, uh, uh, you know, picture perfect childhood with all this goodness around you. But just, I'll just gonna straight up tell people JP might crack a few people once in a while if they need it when he was a young kid.

• 12:57JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, definitely, definitely never went out looking for it and starting it, but if it was there, I want, you know, anyways, we had a party with my buddies and, uh, no, actually, we're just like, kind of hanging out the house and I don't know, I happen, some guys like showed up the ones anyways, got in a fight, broke my hand. Um, don't, you know, like a smart young man, don't go to the hospital that night. My hands like ballooning up. Well, you know, the next day we're gonna go whitewater rafting. So I mean, I can't not do that with all my friends. So I just put my hand in the river the whole time. So I'm like, that's like ice, right? I get home. I thought my mom was going to just beat me. She's a short, little, just thin athletic woman. And I was just like terrified.

• 13:41Jocko Willink?

  You're afraid she was gonna do some step aerobics on your head?

• 13:43JP Dinnell?

  Yes, exactly. She was gonna get after it. Um, and, uh, so I go, you know, so she's like, yeah, we're, we're going to hospital. And so we go there and they're like, yeah, you broke your knuckle, this bone and fractured the wrist. And I'm like, okay. So I get into cast. Of course, my dad's pissed off, you know, and, um, he's just like, you know, just, it's my senior year. I'm getting close to graduation and there was no talk of college. Um, I played water polo my senior year and one of the J C's was, or my coach said, hey, you know, if you go to this J C, UC Davis, you know, you could be going over and playing over there. I just knew college wasn't what I wanted to do. At the time, it just wasn't for me. I wasn't going to waste time or money doing something I just wasn't driven to do.

• 14:29JP Dinnell?

  And um, you know, my dad's like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do with your life? And I was like, I don't know, I'll probably be a whitewater rafting guy and live up in, up in the mountains. And he's like, what are you gonna do with your life? You're like, nothing wrong with that, but you know, he's like, no, like you're, no. And uh, cause one of my best friends did that and uh, which is just cool, chill lifestyle, but

• 14:49Jocko Willink?

  Seems cool, yeah.

• 14:50JP Dinnell?

  It would be great for the soul, right? And uh, so anyways, my dad was like, what about the military? Like, what about being a Navy SEAL? You used to always talk about it. And at the time, all I could think about was just like the regular fleet Navy recruiters that would come to the high school. And this was pre nine eleven, so nobody's really very motivated. And you know, they, they would come to the high school, but they never really engaged with the students or anything. So I was like, uh, that's the Navy? I don't know.

• 15:18JP Dinnell?

  Go to work that next day and because I'm in a cast, had me at the front register. And for the first time ever, I noticed across the street is a Navy recruiting office. I was like, I'll go in there. So I went in there and of course like, oh, what are you gonna do? Blah, blah, blah. What are you here for? I was like, I was thinking about joining the Navy. You wanna be a Navy SEAL? They all start laughing. I was like, check. I was pissed. Like I was like real mad like, well, you know, all the SEAL wannabes have to talk to petty officer so and so. And yeah, dude, when he said the SEAL wannabe part, I was fired up. And then he goes, and we can't do anything with your cast on. I'm like, all right, Roger that. They're like, you know, if you wanna come talk to him, he'll be on Thursday. It was on Tuesday.

• 16:01JP Dinnell?

  So I go, go back to work. I'm just staring at the Navy recruiting office the whole time, just stewing. So I'm like, dude, I'm in good shape, you know, like I'm a very good athlete, like I can do this. And go back home and uh, tell my dad, my dad's like, hey, how, you know, how's work? Am I good? I was like, hey, I'm joining the Navy and I can't go do anything for bootcamp with this cast on. Like, I don't know, like, you know, in my mind, I'm like, I'm leaving for bootcamp tomorrow, something like that, right? And so he's like, cool, go start the bathtub, start soaking it. I'll get some tools out of the garage. And so my dad comes in there and he has like some like sheet metal shears and something else, uh, um, a sawza.

• 16:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 16:41JP Dinnell?

  And we just got out there and we cut off my cast, dude. I thought my mom was gonna beat my dad. Like she was like, what? And of course I was like, yeah, I'm joining the Navy. I'm gonna go be a Navy SEAL. So all of a sudden I cut off my cast and now her, her baby boy is leaving to, you know, go join the military and she's my poor mom, you know? And so I go back on Thursday, I walk in, they look at me, they look at my cast not being there, they're like, you need to talk to Petty Officer Stone. So I'm like, all right, Roger that. And so that just started the rest of the process and, um, you know, a lot of rehab. My parents had a cafe, um, they sold that. Um, so me and my dad could do construction together to spend as much time together as possible. And my mom was able to spend time with her mom that was passing away.

• 17:25JP Dinnell?

  And that's how I rehabbed my hand. And, uh, my dad would actually wrap my hand up in some of my old kickboxing wraps and boxing wraps, tape it up. And then we would tape the hammer to my hand because I couldn't grip it. Like I could not grip anything. And, you know, that's what he did because I'd see my old dad go to work with a cast on and he would have to tape tools to his cast to work.

• 17:45Jocko Willink?

  I mean, your dad's not the kind of guy that's gonna let broken limbs stop him from getting a good day's of work in. No, just tape that tool to your body and make something happen.

• 17:55JP Dinnell?

  So that's what he did with me. And it was awesome. And he knew like I wanted to go to Buzz and I was gonna go to Buzz. And so he would push me to my absolute limit every day at work. Like, I mean, every day meant, I mean, I would be pissed, sometimes borderline crying because I was so mad, not like tears or like, you know, pain or whatever. I was so mad at him and he'd see it and he'd throttle back a little bit and he'd make me go, you know, some days like now I'd come in to work hungover sometimes and he would be like, hey, I need you to go rent a 90 pound jackhammer. There was no need for a 90 pound jackhammer.

• 18:29Jocko Willink?

  Yes, there is. Needs to jackhammer your brain back into reality.

• 18:33JP Dinnell?

  And so for eight hours, I would be jackhammering concrete with a 90 pound jackhammer while he was doing what he's doing. And then, I mean, it was awesome though. I mean, he, he would push me to the absolute limit and my mom and him were. Awesome with communications and helping me out with stuff and it was good. And so then I went, I left September 5th, 2001. I had a SEAL contract.

• 18:56Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 18:56JP Dinnell?

  I was in BUDs, I'm sorry, I was in boot camp when nine 11 happened. And, uh, you know, it was just weird. I was, I was so pissed.

• 19:04Jocko Willink?

  Did they tell you guys about it?

• 19:05JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, we were on lockdown and they're like, hey, the nation's being attacked. We'll give you guys more info. And we're like, what? Of course you have all the weak minded people in there that start crying. Like I'm, I'm 18, right? Like barely 18. And there's just grown men crying like, I didn't sign up for this. I'm like, like getting fired up, like you need to shut up, sit down. Like I'm just like,

• 19:28Jocko Willink?

  JP's looking for a battle axe at this point.

• 19:30JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. Like, how do I go to BUDs right now? Do I have to finish boot camp? Can I just go, you know? But yeah, so I was in boot camp when nine 11 happened and I always felt like, well, I didn't feel like I knew that being a Navy SEAL is what I needed to do and what I wanted to do. And it's what God wanted me to do. And, uh, just everything just fell into place. You know, it was pretty awesome. So.

• 19:51Jocko Willink?

  So then you, uh, go to BUDs. You, you went to BUDs right around the same time as Leif and Andrew Paul?

• 19:57JP Dinnell?

  I was one class behind them. They were class two 41. I was class two 42.

• 20:01Jocko Willink?

  And then you, but you ended up in SQT with those guys?

• 20:04JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. Yep.

• 20:05Jocko Willink?

  Which is, which is the, which is like the training after you get through the basic SEAL training, BUDs, which is where you do pushups and all that stuff and do pull ups and have a boat on your head and all that stuff. And a bunch of people quit. Then you go to something a little bit more advanced called SQT, where you actually learn some SEAL skills.

• 20:24JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 20:25Jocko Willink?

  And then you check into a team. And then you get, so you, you check into team three?

• 20:30JP Dinnell?

  Yep. Check into team three.

• 20:31Jocko Willink?

  And knock out your first platoon as a new guy. What was that like?

• 20:35JP Dinnell?

  It was, uh, it was good. It was cool. You know, I checked in team three and, uh, you know, it was like, hey, we need some volunteers to go to a driving school. It's an off-road Hummer racing and navigation school. I was like, how do I get my hand up fast enough for that? And it was just. Worked out great. Like I literally checked into the team.

• 20:51Jocko Willink?

  The team's ridiculous.

• 20:53JP Dinnell?

  It is.

• 20:53Jocko Willink?

  I mean, you're 18 years old and they're like, hey, we're going to send you an off-road racing school for free. And we're going to give you a bunch of money to go there, by the way, so you can buy good meals.

• 21:02JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, you're going to go for a month. Two weeks straight is going to be off-road driving racing and two weeks is going to be navigation. I was like, I literally just, you know, I just come back from Kodiak, Alaska. We were doing our cold weather training. So I was up there. I was gone for a month. Come back legitimately for a couple of days. And, you know, my girlfriend at the time was like, oh, you're back. I'm so happy. And then all of a sudden I was like, I'm leaving tomorrow. And I mean, I was just like, I was just happy. You know, I was like, yes, this is awesome. This is legit. I'm in the teams. Like I'm getting to do stuff, you know? And um, I went out there.

• 21:37Jocko Willink?

  There's a freaking war going on.

• 21:38JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I just wanted to be as well equipped as possible. And one of my good bros, Derek Benson, you know, he was killed on extortion 17. He's from Northern California as well. And he was one boat's class ahead of me. So he had checked into team a little bit, uh, to team three prior to me. We both went to that driving school together. And that's where we just became like best friends, you know? So it was awesome. It was a good time out there, you know, learned a lot and you know, there's older team guys out there too, you know, that I got to actually interact with and, you know, just guys not from my platoon. So they weren't so hard on me because I was a new guy. But at the same time, like I was just learning the balance of the teams because I

• 22:20JP Dinnell?

  I'm overly nice and social and I like to talk to everybody and be everybody's friend. And when you're a new guy in the SEAL teams, that's usually not the best thing when you're like, hey, how are you doing, buddy? And they're like, shut up. Or like, why are you talking to me? And I'm like, because we're going to be friends? We're going to war together. Let's be friends, you know? So it was, but it was cool, you know? And then I come back and then all of a sudden, we're headed out on our first trip. And we're headed out to Shaw's to do shooting school. And I remember we're getting ready to fly out there and I just see this big, huge Native American dude. I'm like, I hope he's in my platoon. You know what I mean? I'm just like, you're drawn to like, just

• 23:03JP Dinnell?

  awesome warrior looking guys, right? And he's just very stoic and just, I was like, Dude, I really hope he's in my platoon and he was. It's my boy Steve Chira. You know, he lives out in Vegas and um, you know, he's he's an awesome old guy to have in the platoon. You know, and then the rest of the other guys in platoon, um, you know, they're still active duty. So I'm not going to drop their names. Um, you know, my boy Pepper was his nickname. He was like the perfect old guy to have because he was so hard on you. Like you were just waiting for him to whoop your ass, but he also mentored and guided you and and actually taught you stuff, you know, and it wasn't just, I'm gonna hammer you because you're a new guy.

• 23:43JP Dinnell?

  He's like, I'm gonna hammer you because you're a new guy, but show you what you need to be doing and why what you did was wrong.

• 23:51JP Dinnell?

  So I was fired up, super fired up. So we go out to the Chaws, you know, your first trip, super overwhelming. You know, you're just a little nervous as it is and they even told us like, hey, this is usually a trip where you want it to be halfway or towards the end. So you can get a solid grasp of what you're doing and grow. Um, but we got after it. It was awesome. Like I said, all the, you know, the older guys um, were solid. Uh, we had a really weak LPO and um, he actually got fired on that trip. So I was a little just, you know, concerning to me at first, like, okay, my first LPO and then he's a complete turd.

• 24:25Jocko Willink?

  It's one of the uh,

• 24:28Jocko Willink?

  myths of definitely of the SEAL teams is when you come in and you think every guy is a hardened combat warrior. And then you get in and you look at some guys and you go, wait a second, that's not, that's not who, that's not who I was thinking I was gonna be working with. Yeah. And of course, on the other end of the spectrum, you meet guys where you're like, I want to be like that guy. So, so you guys, you guys rap through that workup and you go on your first deployment. How was that first deployment? You went to Iraq on your first deployment, right?

• 24:55JP Dinnell?

  Um, yeah, well, for the second half, first half went to Guam, which was disheartening. You know, I'm like, dude, there's a war going on. Let's go to war. How cool you're gonna go to Guam. But you know, it's part of it, you know, you, it's just part of it, you know?

• 25:10Jocko Willink?

  Part of the mission.

• 25:10JP Dinnell?

  Part of the mission, one of, you know?

• 25:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, again, military people deploy all over the world all the time to maintain stability and that includes. All units of the military, even special operations, so SEALs, sometimes you get deployed to places where there's no, you know, really visible threat.

• 25:30JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 25:30Jocko Willink?

  And it's not what SEALs generally want to do.

• 25:33JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, so we, we did training, we cross trained with a couple of different countries.

• 25:38JP Dinnell?

  You know, some other platoon went to the PI, we were in Guam, you know, we went to Thailand to work with the Thai SEALs for nine days and I mean, it was cool getting to see how other countries do stuff and it, now that I look back at it, it did give me a much bigger picture, you know, overview of stuff, but at the time, like, I'm not even 21, like, I'm just wanting to get after it, you know, and uh, I didn't, uh, for the first half, but then we rip and we go to Iraq. I'm like, yes, going to Iraq. Well, I knew what we were headed over there to do, but I was hoping we, there'd be, you know, they'd be able to do a lot of different stuff and ended up doing, uh, personal security, um, uh, for some higher dignitaries over there during the elections and I mean, it wa- it was cool. You know, what, you're looking back now, you look at what you did and you put that on

• 26:23JP Dinnell?

  your resume, people are like, what? Wow, you did that? I'm like, to me, I was thinking, you know, that sucked, you know, but it didn't. It was also very good. It's a very good learning experience, um, and it was part of the mission. And the problem is, when they had a, a, a gap in that protection, you know, some team guys came to do it and team guys do what they do and they just knocked it out of the park. So guess what? Team guys now have the mission for that. And, um, but it was cool. You know, we worked with, uh, some different units, some Marines and Army guys, and they were phenomenal over there as well. And it was, it was awesome to be able to learn from them, you know, guys that have been on their, you know, a couple of deployments already and the war is, hasn't really even really

• 27:03JP Dinnell?

  kicked off and, um, it was good. Um, you know, and then our chief got fired. I was just like, geez. Um, but the headshot was solid. Like our OIC, AIC, who became our, the Delta Platoon Commander.

• 27:18Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:19JP Dinnell?

  Solid dudes, you know, and so we, we just had to weed out some of the weak ones.

• 27:25Jocko Willink?

  Right on. And that's the, the, the nature of that mission, you know, is defense and... I don't want to be on defense ever, right? I won't be on offense. That's where I want to be. So it's a tough, it was a tough mission for the guys to mentor. I mean, of course, you, you'd never know this from their, from their professionalism, but no one was saying, jumping up and down saying, hey, great. We, we get to be on defense.

• 27:48JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 27:49Jocko Willink?

  All the time.

• 27:50JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 27:50Jocko Willink?

  For a long period of time. And the fact that the guys did perform so well and that we kept the mission. Again, like you said, we kept the mission because we did a good job. Not that we were jumping up and down excited about doing it. Cause we don't want to be on defense. We want to be on offense.

• 28:04JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, absolutely. Um, and yeah, now I look back, I'm like, you know, some of the thing, and I did get to do a pretty cool thing there. And then, I mean, we got to see all of Iraq, you know, I got to go up to northern Iraq, up in Kurdistan.

• 28:19Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah. Because those dignitaries were traveling around.

• 28:22JP Dinnell?

  Well, he was Kurdish and he was from, from northern Iraq and it was, it's gorgeous up there, you know? We actually, you know, so I had a little come to Jesus talk with, um, one of the older guys. You know, he was just kind of reeling me back in because I, I wasn't very happy. I was pissed that other guys are out doing direct actions, DAs, and I want to be doing that. And, you know, my boy Pepper, you know, he talked to me and he sat me down and he's like, man, this is big picture thing, you know? And this is part of it. He's like, and you're a new guy. He's like, I know you want to get after it. I know you're aggressive, but it's a good deal, you know? Like, yes, it's not the ideal thing that we want to do. He's like, but this is not a bad deal.

• 29:02JP Dinnell?

  You know, we're in civilian clothes and fully armored SUVs, you know, getting to travel around with this guy. And he just was like, you just need to change your mindset, you know? And he's like, you need to stay focused because after this deployment, it might be something completely different, you know? And he's like, just stay the course, stay focused and, you know, get the mission done. And it was awesome talk. I needed that, you know? I just needed that guidance and mentorship because I was young, you know?

• 29:26Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 29:26JP Dinnell?

  Pepper's the older guy. He had had a good amount of experience and, um, you know, he just, he just knew what I needed to hear and, you know, roughed me up a little bit and continued on, man. It was good. It was awesome. Learned a lot from it. So.

• 29:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So you get back from that deployment.

• 29:42JP Dinnell?

  Yep.

• 29:43Jocko Willink?

  And this is when you start, this is when we formed up, when we started working together.

• 29:48JP Dinnell?

  Yes, sir.

• 29:48Jocko Willink?

  In TU Bruiser.

• 29:49JP Dinnell?

  Yep.

• 29:51JP Dinnell?

  Again, you would come back from the or well, I come back from deployment and then all of a sudden I was like, hey, we we need snipers. I'm like, how fast do I get up for this one, you know? And uh, literally gone like again, within a week and uh, went through the NSW short course, uh, which you know, we didn't get our sniper certificates from that because we didn't do everything, but I didn't care. You're giving me sniper guns. You're, you know, I know how to use them. They're doped in. I get to kill savages. Okay, you know, um.

• 30:22Jocko Willink?

  You know what's crazy is remember when they used to try and they had rules about how much we could be gone from home.

• 30:27JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 30:27Jocko Willink?

  Those days.

• 30:28JP Dinnell?

  Oh, we violated.

• 30:29Jocko Willink?

  And it was for yes, we violated them, but then young guys in the teams and a lot of old guys too, they they literally are raising their hand for everything like, oh yeah, get me out of here, man. Oh, you're going to send me that school? Or are you going to send me on another deployment? And it's weird because there's some people that, you know, a guy that's married and has a family, they're they're they don't want to do that anymore and they shouldn't have to. But they blanket apply the rules across the board to everybody. Cause I'll tell you what, when you're 19 years old and you're in the SEAL teams, you don't want to be at home any night of the week. You want to be either on deployment or getting trained and getting after it. And that's what's awesome.

• 31:01JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Jocko Willink?

  But they they blanket those rules, which is a bummer.

• 31:06JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. I mean, I was just fired up and to go be able to go sniper school.

• 31:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 31:10JP Dinnell?

  You know, like, cause um, you know,

• 31:13Jocko Willink?

  It's a big deal.

• 31:13JP Dinnell?

  It's a huge deal.

• 31:15Jocko Willink?

  To get to go to sniper school.

• 31:16JP Dinnell?

  And one of the older guys in the platoon, he's still active uh, in the teams. I won't say his name, but he was one of my really good buddies and I really looked up to him. We did an awesome mission together on that that first deployment and

• 31:27Jocko Willink?

  Oh, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. He's one of my favorite guys.

• 31:30JP Dinnell?

  The Badger.

• 31:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 31:31JP Dinnell?

  The Badger. And um, you know, he's just just an awesome guy and he was a sniper, you know, and he would always talk to me about little things and I was just and even before I went, he was like teaching me stuff and he's like, yeah, you know, this is this. So I don't know if he had a say in me going there or what, but I went, I was super excited. And then also Chris, you know, Chris was a big influence as well as, you know, he's a successful sniper for on that. His second deployment, my first deployment. Yeah. And you're just hearing about what he's doing in Fallujah. And I was like, please, please, Lord, like, I just want to do this so badly. And you hear Chris, you know, telling stories and hear other people telling stories about Chris, you know, and I actually, I even had a buddy

• 32:10JP Dinnell?

  who was back from Sacramento. He's a Marine who he was a Marine officer in charge of Chris and those guys over there. So he's telling me stories that were just like, I was like, what? Dude, this is awesome. And so anyways, we got to the short course. Um, it was, it was legit. It was in the summer out in the mountains and desert doing everything. Guys are blacking out on their stocks because it's 120 degrees and you're trying to do a four hour stock in a ghillie suit and, but uh, which was awesome because it prepared us for Ramadi. It's like, dude, the worst stuff, you know, you're just okay, you know, and, um, you know, had a great time. The instructors were pretty solid, you know, and um,

• 32:50JP Dinnell?

  then all of a sudden it was like, because we had a condensed workup. They're like, hey, we gotta get going. So normally what it would take 18 months, we had to condense into 11 months. And uh, you know, all of a sudden then we're headed out to

• 33:06Jocko Willink?

  Our desert training facility.

• 33:07JP Dinnell?

  Desert training facility for our first trip.

• 33:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And that's where, that's where we met for the first.

• 33:11JP Dinnell?

  First met. Yeah. I had heard about this guy Jocko. And guys were fired up because they're like, dude, this guy is fired up. He's just, and you know, thing is just a, you know, this bigger stoic guy that was professional, who had a good amount of experience in the teams, and who just wanted to get in the fight. And I was like, yes, this is what we need, you know?

• 33:35Jocko Willink?

  It was pretty apparent when I first met you that you wanted to get in the fight too.

• 33:39JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I might've been bandaged up a little bit from smashing out a car window.

• 33:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 33:44JP Dinnell?

  But uh, you know, yeah, some, some idiots downtown and um,

• 33:50Jocko Willink?

  What were you saying I was saying to you when I saw that?

• 33:53JP Dinnell?

  So when you saw it, uh, you know, you're like, hey, I'm Jocko. I was like, I'm JP. You're like, I know who you are. And I was like, Roger that. Yeah, I was kind of like, uh, okay. And uh, you're like, so what's up the wrist? And I was like, uh, I got a couple of stitches. And you're like, from what? I was like, I, you know, smashed out a car window with my elbow and I got caught. He's like, huh? You gonna stop doing that stupid shit? I'm like, yeah. He's like, you need to be training here with the guys and with us and focused on workup. And he's like, if you want to fight, we fight, you know? And I was like, Roger that, sir. And I was like, I'm gonna go work out. Cause I remember I was walking to the gym, you know, I just changed out the bandages. I had stitches and staples in my arm.

• 34:33JP Dinnell?

  And I had all bandaged up and trying to get after it. I was gonna go work out and there I see the silverback gorilla.

• 34:42JP Dinnell?

  So it was awesome. It was good. You know, just, and you just set the precedence, you know, you set the tone for, hey, yeah, it's cool to be aggressive and want to fight and get after it, but you do it in the right place and the right time. And don't forget, you know, at the end of the day, we're going to war to kill bad guys. That's the number one focus.

• 34:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 35:00JP Dinnell?

  And it was just like, that just kind of really opened up my eyes. So it was cool.

• 35:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And that workup was, that workup was awesome.

• 35:09JP Dinnell?

  They're so excited. Yeah, it was so much fun. I mean, just, just the energy there. I mean, everyone was ready to get after it and you, you drove it and all of us, you know, I remember you coming up to me when we're in between IADS and you're like, hey, every time like someone gets a door, I want you to be the dude that's as loud as possible. You told me to go put, to tape JP on the back of my helmet. You're like, I always want to be able to find you. And, um, you know, maybe you did, maybe you didn't, but.

• 35:37Jocko Willink?

  Oh, no, I did. I mean, that's, that's legit right there. So, hey, I'll tell you right now, I say this all the time. Well, I should, I shouldn't exactly say I say this all the time, but there's people that have certain qualities, right? Certain qualities, whether they're leadership qualities, whether they're, uh, skills at art or at speaking or at basketball, right? People have certain qualities. You had a good ability, you, you had a great ability to get command of something and make something happen very quickly, right? And that's, it's A, because you're loud, you're loud, number one. Number two, you're aggressive. Number three, you can take whatever that problem is and like get it into some quick words. You can simplify it into something quickly and say it. And as soon as I saw that you could

• 36:20Jocko Willink?

  do that, because we have to get people to perform fairly complex things in chaotic situations. But when I saw that you had that skill, I said, okay, he's a guy that I can utilize and that his platoon commander can utilize and that the, that the whole troop can utilize to handle such certain situations when there's some chaos going on and something needs to be straightened out. So what I want you to do is take some riggers tape and I want you to write JP on your helmet. So whenever I'm looking around on my night vision or, or during the daytime and I see, you just see a bunch of helmets that look the same. Now I know it's JP. When I see him coming, I go JP, make this happen right here. And JP can make it happen right there.

• 36:56JP Dinnell?

  I still have that helmet with the tape.

• 36:59Jocko Willink?

  Boom.

• 36:59JP Dinnell?

  Sitting in my garage on the shelf.

• 37:01Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome.

• 37:02JP Dinnell?

  Kind of cool.

• 37:03Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome.

• 37:04JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 37:06Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 37:09Jocko Willink?

  We get, we get obviously orders two weeks prior to deployment that we're going to Ramadi. We, we had thought we were going somewhere else. We thought we were going to Baghdad. We thought we were gonna have kind of a cookie cutter deployment of what the teams had been doing for a few years. And we find out two weeks before deployment that we're going to Ramadi and wait, how did you find out? Did I call? Did the Delta Team Commander, the Chief call you? How did you find out we were going to Ramadi? Cause you guys were all on leave. You remember?

• 37:38JP Dinnell?

  I don't. I don't think they even told us till we got back. I mean, because it was all over the news what was going on over there, you know, so I don't, you know, I don't think they told us.

• 37:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, probably didn't tell. I know I told, you know, the, the leaders.

• 37:51JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 37:52Jocko Willink?

  And said, hey, guys, stand by to get some.

• 37:55JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. Yeah. Cause I remember we found out we're on leave. We came home, came back to San Diego and we're getting a rollout. And that's when we found out where we're going and we were getting ready and we had all had our families.

• 38:09JP Dinnell?

  We had our families, you know, the day we're shipping off to say goodbye. And there's a couple of guys like reading like news reports and articles about the area we're going to. And I'm like trying to like pull my mom away so she doesn't hear this, you know what I mean? And my dad's just like listening, like getting fired up. He's like, yes. And you know, my dad, you know, you could tell as a father, he's very excited for me. My mom's terrified, nervous, but my dad was nervous as well, rightfully so, you know, like your son's going off to war and combat, but he was just, it was just a mix of emotions for him. And so he was like trying to hide like the nervousness by saying, when are you leaving? Come on, we've been waiting. It's about time for you to go.

• 38:49Jocko Willink?

  Get out of here. I just remembered when I got told, when they said, they, when, when the commanding officer brought me in and he's, and, and he was trying to sell to me. Going to Ramadi instead of going to Baghdad, he's like proposing it. It's like, hey, you know, this could be good. And inside I'm like, oh my God, I'm like so, and I remembered I bargained for something. There's something, there's something that I said, well, well, we want this. If we can do this, then we can make it happen. I think it was gear or some kind of gear swap we did. But, but anyways, I remember them trying to sell it to me. And I knew I was in such a good position because it's like someone trying to sell you free money.

• 39:31Jocko Willink?

  You know what I mean? I was like, oh, you want to screw Ramadi? Okay. Uh, let me think about that for a second. And inside I'm going, don't, don't blow it. Just act cool.

• 39:39JP Dinnell?

  Poker face.

• 39:40Jocko Willink?

  Just, you know, maybe you might be able to leverage something. Just relax inside. Like, okay, you know, I think we can make it happen. I, I need a little bit of this. I might need a couple more support personnel out there to give us a hand. Getting acclimated and getting the turnover done. But if I can get five or six more personnel, I'm just, I'm just gathering logistics support for my troop. That's what I was bargaining for. I was gathering logistics to support for the troop, getting more CBs to come help us and more intel guys. Like as long as we can have this and that. And he's like, yeah, I'll, I'll talk to them. We'll see if we can make it happen. And it happened.

• 40:13JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. Um, the CO was awesome. Solid dude.

• 40:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 40:19JP Dinnell?

  He's so solid. I remember, you know, because I got in trouble when I went home on leave during Christmas time.

• 40:25Jocko Willink?

  Am I seeing some kind of a pattern of trouble here?

• 40:29JP Dinnell?

  Or, you know, if you want to say that.

• 40:32Jocko Willink?

  You know what? Here's the deal. One of my best friends.

• 40:35JP Dinnell?

  Didn't have the outlets.

• 40:35Jocko Willink?

  One of my best friends in the SEAL Team when I was younger, right? We were the same way. We were maniacs. And one time he got in a really big trouble. And the, the platoon commander, who's one of my favorite guys and a guy that inspired me to go the officer route because he was a prior enlisted guy and he was an awesome guy and he was made the platoon awesome for us. That guy, so I'm, I'm thinking he's gonna, he must be so angry at my buddy that got in big trouble, like borderline international incident.

• 41:07Jocko Willink?

  And I kinda said, hey, you know, are, are you mad at him for, for what happened or what do you think of this? And he goes, he said something along the lines of, he's a warrior. You can't stop these things from happening. It's, it's in your guys' blood. We have to just deal with it the best we can.

• 41:27JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. And you, you guys did, you know.

• 41:29Jocko Willink?

  That's what I always, that was always my attitude.

• 41:32JP Dinnell?

  You know, I look back now, I'm 33 and I'm like, man, but you know, you learn from your mistakes and you make sure you don't, you know, pave them again. I got, you know, I got, I was up in Reno, I got arrested for, um, you know, like older guy started to fight with me and my friends and I was with non-team guy friends. They're super passive guys and he's older, like much bigger guy, you know, and, um, you know, it was coming at me. He had a bottle on his hand. It was just, you know, anyways, do some damage to him. He ends up in the hospital for a long time. I get rolled up, I get arrested. I go there, they're looking through my wallet. They're like, security clearance, seal team three. And I'm like, yeah. And the cop goes, why didn't you tell me this when we're out there? He's like, I would have dropped you off around the corner. I was like, well, I didn't want, you know,

• 42:16JP Dinnell?

  I'm not gonna try to pull that card. I made a mistake. He's like, well, you're here now. So we have to deal with it. So I go home and I remember I, and I tell, uh, the LPO about it. He's like, all right, we gotta go tell chief. And chief's like, all right, we gotta go to the OIC. We gotta go tell the command master chief, command master chief, you know, and ops master chief was press on and bro, two phenomenal leader. I mean, just couldn't get better, higher listed leaders ever, right? So of course, you know, they're hearing the story and they kinda like give me the rundown and then, you know, Master Chief press on goes, JP, you think you're the first team guy to get arrested for fighting? Let me tell you some stories. He just kinda, he's like, hey, we just got, we gotta fix this. You know what I mean? He's like, obviously it was clearly self-defense and he's like, whatever

• 43:00JP Dinnell?

  you need from us. That was good. Cool. Whatever. What I do is I make the mistake is I go back home on Christmas leave shortly after that and I got a wet and reckless. So not a DUI, but you know, whatever, close enough. I was an idiot. And yeah, I'm Superman, you know, I'm only 22, you know, I'm not even 23 yet. And yeah, we were crushing the work up. So it was my, I was built, I felt even better about life and everything else like that. And we know we're going to war and, you know, I just made a mistake and, um, you know, pay the consequences. You know, I come home and I'm like, oh dude, what do I do? I'm like, they're going to kill me. I was like, I'm,

• 43:40JP Dinnell?

  I'm possibly not going to deploy. And I remember I broke down, like I just broke down like emotionally. I'm like, I just threw everything away, you know, like for what, you know? And I was really upset and I went and told the Badger, you know, about it first. I was like, hey man, I need some advice. I was like, you know, I think I can take leave and take care of this on my own and everything. He goes, yeah, I think we can. He's like, but if not, you know, it's a big risk, you know? He's like, dude, we have solid leadership right now. Now's the time that you just get your butt kicked for this and just deal with it, you know? He's like, dude, just take what comes at you. And I'm like, all right, bro. You know, I was like sick to my stomach. And I was like, well, I don't know how this is going to turn out.

• 44:25JP Dinnell?

  We go to the LPL, dude, he's like, you boohbooh. And I'm like, right, yep, right, that. Go to Chief, Chief, same thing. I'm, um, go AIC, it was Andrew Paul, and Andrew Paul's like, JP, really? Like he was just, what hurt is how disappointed he was. Everyone is disappointed, like you're better than that. And I was, you know? And then, so we go back over there to go talk to Master Chief Yarborough and press on. And I was just like, I was so ashamed. Like I, I was just, you know, I just got the chills. I was just, I was disgusted myself, you know? So, you know, they got there, they're like, all right. Well, we're gonna have a chief's review board. See if you get to keep your trident and stay in the teams. I was just like.

• 45:10JP Dinnell?

  Try not to throw up right then and there. I'm like, like, go back to platoon space. Like, how do you even function the rest of the day after that? Like, I was like, so I'm looking at the badger, I'm like, maybe we shouldn't have said this. You know what I mean? I was like, dude. So anyways, um, long story short, they, uh, I had the chief's review board and luckily they were doing remodeling over the compound. So I was two rooms over, but the ceilings were open and vaulted.

• 45:36Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 45:37JP Dinnell?

  So I could hear them all talking about me beforehand. And of course he had a bunch of like, it was all the chiefs in the command. And, you know, there were some chiefs there that, you know, were support personnel. They're like, screw this kid, let's blah, blah, blah, like, you know, blah, blah. And then like Yarborough goes, ho- hold up. Like, the kid's a good kid. I, I was with him at SQT. You know, he made a mistake. And so like, I remember him taking my back because he's like, oh, really? Let's get rid. And he started pulling up like other guys that had made mistakes. He's like, what about when you did this? And what about when you did that? He's like, no, he's good. And press on is like, nope, we're keeping them. We're gonna crush them, but we're keeping them. So I go in there and luckily I'd heard that. And so I went in there and just, you know, faced the man and, you know, the whole rest of workup.

• 46:22JP Dinnell?

  And I was on restriction, you know, we're on the road, we're awesome trips. We're going to Vegas for a work trip and guess who has a curfew?

• 46:30Jocko Willink?

  Did you have a curfew during that?

• 46:31JP Dinnell?

  Oh.

• 46:31Jocko Willink?

  I do remember that. Yeah.

• 46:33JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, absolutely. Like, if I was to go get up food, I had to be back within a certain timeframe. Be like, oh, wait, actually, guess what? They serve food here, so you don't need to leave the building. You can get room service because you don't need to be sitting down at the, uh, the tables. And I'm like, yeah, you know, but whatever, you know, I dealt with it.

• 46:48Jocko Willink?

  It's good that you had that kind of sense of fear in there. I mean, just looking back, I can tell you right now, you could have like, you could have committed a broad series of crimes against humanity and I would have still taken you on deployment. And I basically told bro that for sure, like, hey, I don't give a shit.

• 47:07JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, you know, it's just. I was very lucky and blessed. We were blessed to have, you know, good leaders like you and and Bro and Presson and those guys that were just like, hey, man, guys make mistakes. We're gonna, we're gonna fix it. You know, it's not like you guys are like, oh, no big deal. You're like, oh, cool. Hey,

• 47:23Jocko Willink?

  You gotta learn.

• 47:23JP Dinnell?

  You gotta learn from it, you know, and, um, you know, I definitely learned from it and the CO was super cool. And the CO stood by what you guys stood. And that said a lot to me about him as a leader as well, because he trusted you guys' judgment. And I remember he comes out like towards the end of our deployment when we'd be getting it. We'd been getting it the whole time. He's like, man, I'm really glad I listened to them and kept you around. So it was just awesome. It all kind of turned around because it was basically, you guys were like, hey, we're gonna hold it where it's at. And we'll see how he does on deployment. And when he comes back, we'll hammer him and if we need to, so.

• 47:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Alright, so we go on deployment.

• 48:00JP Dinnell?

  Yep.

• 48:01Jocko Willink?

  And like you said, like, people are reading the newspaper. I mean, I knew because I was reading all the intel. I mean, I was totally read in and was trying to explain to you guys and telling you guys, stand by to get some. We show up there and do some, do some, you know, basically the forces almost instantly, we divide into five different teams and we end up doing big operation over in Eastern Ramadi. And that kind of set the tone and carved out a little space for a certain crew. And actually, in the retirement speech that I gave, you know, I talk about, hey, we're gonna send some guys over here. If you want to go volunteer, you gotta put your name on this list. And of course, everyone put their name on the list, which made it go back to the original plan,

• 48:46Jocko Willink?

  which was the Delta Platoon Commander saying, you know, these are the guys I'll take. I need, whatever, eight guys. I'll take these guys. And, you know, had a little, make sure that we weren't making anything too unbalanced. But obviously, obviously, he wanted you with him. And so you guys roll out to Corregidor with the first of the 506 Band of Brothers.

• 49:09JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, those guys are phenomenal.

• 49:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 49:12JP Dinnell?

  Love those guys.

• 49:15Jocko Willink?

  Talk about full metal jacket.

• 49:21JP Dinnell?

  A blown out old school.

• 49:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 49:23JP Dinnell?

  I think it was old school or like a university.

• 49:26Jocko Willink?

  University, I think.

• 49:27JP Dinnell?

  Old university, just completely blown out like walls. I mean, there's more bags of sand than concrete. I think they're holding the place up. Um, you know, with army and marines living with us in there. And, um, I remember we show up and we're just like, dude.

• 49:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we for when, when I went there for that big first kickoff. Yeah, that place was just dirt floors.

• 49:47JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 49:47Jocko Willink?

  Mosquitoes everywhere, bugs everywhere.

• 49:50JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 49:51Jocko Willink?

  I don't even think there was A C.

• 49:52JP Dinnell?

  No, there wasn't.

• 49:53Jocko Willink?

  It was like one dangling light in every room.

• 49:56JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 49:56Jocko Willink?

  That was hard living.

• 49:57JP Dinnell?

  But that was all, but that was all one big room. They had like, they had like a sheet of plywood that divided the big room that we all ended up eventually like building our own rooms into.

• 50:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 50:08JP Dinnell?

  I remember getting over there and, you know, guys like, I was so fired up. I'm like, yes, I'm in, I'm in it. Like this is horrible. It's horrible because there's a fight going on right here. You know what I mean? Like the nice built up bases, there's not a fight there where it's like horrible. You know, there's a fight. I was just super excited.

• 50:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, Craigador was awesome. And there was guys with the first of the five oh six that that place was getting mortared every day. That place was getting attacked every day. I mean, remember when we first went there and it's like, I said, um, guys like, can we, can we go up on the walls? Can a sniper go up on the walls and like defend? And I was like, um, yes.

• 50:44JP Dinnell?

  And we did.

• 50:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you guys went up and started whacking people almost immediately.

• 50:48JP Dinnell?

  It was awesome. Didn't even have to leave base to kill guys.

• 50:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. What, what kind of a joy is that right there?

• 50:54JP Dinnell?

  It's like the best Christmas present ever, but it was also the same time. It's like, if you want to go grab chow, you have to be in full body armor, helmet and your gun. Cause your gun got constantly, um, attacked. You know, there's a couple of times you hear doop, doop, and you just hear the incoming mortars and you're sprinting to try to either get, you're like, when you're in the middle, you're like, do I go back? Do I go to the chow hall? Are they aiming for our building this time? You know, I remember there was one time I was going out to take a shower.

• 51:19Jocko Willink?

  Decisions, decisions, decisions.

• 51:21JP Dinnell?

  Just make one and go. And, um, This is a complete, I had my angels, God thing, and we come back from an op and guys are smoked, right? And most guys are just like, I'm just gonna get into bed, like my baby wipe shower and just lay down. I just wanted to actually just go take a shower, right? And so the army guys are awesome. They gave us the code so we could use it on our times when we came back, you know, instead of the standard scheduled army shower time. So I go out there, I get to the shower tent, I'm like, I forgot my loofah sponge, you know, so I can actually like try to like wash with my soap and everything.

• 51:57Jocko Willink?

  Hardcore JP Danelle in combat. You know what you gotta bring to combat with you? You gotta bring your loofah sponge. That's what I'm talking about.

• 52:04JP Dinnell?

  You gotta, you gotta clean the body. So anyways, I go back and as I'm walking back up the steps to get into the thing, shower tent gets hit by three mortars. Yeah, destroyed, gone. Like I was like.

• 52:22Jocko Willink?

  Okay, that was a shower tent that was like 20 meters from Full Metal Jacket, right?

• 52:26JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I legitimately was just like in there and I was like, ah, I remember I was like, I'll just put the soap in my hands. And I was like, no, that was complete, I had my angels, you know, God was like, no, you need to get out of here. And so I walked back and I'm literally taking the last step like into that little dark hallway and I was like, okay, where's my baby wipes? I have to go get some baby. And that's what was so crazy is like something like that. It was just like, okay, shit, now I'm pissed. Yeah. And so baby wiped up and until we got that fix, we were doing bottle of water showers. You know, you poke holes in the top of a water bottle and your buddy squeezes it over you and that's how we showered. You know, it was awesome.

• 53:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Hey, that's, that's another thing. The, uh, the, well, the, the army guys from the first of 506, I mean, obviously they're living that way too. But every day you'd see them, they're always in the squared away uniforms, always, you know, shaving every day, no slack, no fucking slack whatsoever for the first of 506. And, and that was the attitude that you guys went over with, you know?

• 53:32JP Dinnell?

  I made, I made sure our guys had shaved heads because I was the acting LPO. Uh, the Badger was the acting chief and, uh, we, I mean, we rocked the army cammies.

• 53:42Jocko Willink?

  We put you guys in army uniforms.

• 53:43JP Dinnell?

  Army cammies. Um, and we all had shaved heads and we shaved every day, you know, we just looked like the army. I mean, cause. Who cares about a haircut and a shave, you know, unless I needed to have a beard, which I mean, I have a red beard. So who am I blending in with Russians or Irish? You know what I mean? Like I'm in Iraq, you know what I mean? Like a bright blue eyes and a red beard. Oh, you must be a local.

• 54:06Jocko Willink?

  We're being attacked by leprechauns. Giant leprechauns.

• 54:09JP Dinnell?

  Giant tattooed leprechauns. And so, um, you know, we just shaved their heads and got after it. And, uh, I mean, dude, you know, like, why that doesn't matter. That doesn't make you a less effective, you know, either way, you know, and you could tilt that, you know, you could flip side that the other way. It's like, hey, well, if I have long hair and a beard, what does that matter? It really doesn't, but it's the army's battle space and we respected and loved those guys. They were phenomenal guys to work for. So why are we going to do something that is just to piss them off? You know, why? Who cares? Like, so we just shaved and, you know, had her kept her heads shaved, which is awesome actually, because your, your helmet stuck to that like a little brillo pad

• 54:50JP Dinnell?

  and it didn't move around a lot. And, uh, you know, and then the Marines that were with us, the Angkor Clo guys, those phenomenal guys, you know, they started doing the same thing. They're shaving their heads. And my boy Nick Hobbs, you know, he was with us. He's out. He's an awesome stud Marine. And, you know, we always joke about, he's like, man, like, he's, I just remember like this, we all like, just would hang out in our free time. And he's like, you come really close with somebody when they're standing in their like boxer briefs and you're having to pour water over them for them to shower. And we're up on the rooftop, right? Like doing bottles of water shower. And it's just, just funny, man. Like I, I miss those days.

• 55:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. And just so everybody knows now, I mean, just to kind of give an overview, if you don't know what the, what the overall operations that were taking place were pushing in the, the Camp Corregidor, which we've been talking about, which is where this building, Full Metal Jacket was, was on Eastern Ramadi. And the first of the 506 was responsible for the eastern part of Ramadi, the really the southeastern and then some other sections, but. Where the SEAL Platoon was, or the SEAL Squad now is basically a smaller group was working, was inside this area called the Malab District. And as the first, first the 506 would do big clearance operations. You guys would go out and primarily do sniper overwatch.

• 56:09Jocko Willink?

  Although you, of course, you did, you did other stuff. You did clearances and all that, but the primary mission, thank God you went to sniper school because you were the lead sniper and you, and you did a lot of, a lot of sniper work over there.

• 56:20JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, it was awesome. We got, um, just right place, right time, you know? It was just, that's all I can really explain. Now, now we worked to get work and we, you know, we pushed the envelope constantly. But I mean, we're no better than anybody over there. Just, we're just hungry, you know? We, we wanted it so bad. And I remember when we showed up there, um, the Colonel, you know, I won't say his name, but, um, he was awesome, you know? I mean, I, I wish he was running for president.

• 56:50Jocko Willink?

  Absolutely. I mean, I would, I would vote for him and obviously I would vote for him instantly.

• 56:55JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 56:56Jocko Willink?

  He was just unbelievable.

• 56:57JP Dinnell?

  Go on the campaign trail, like in a heartbeat.

• 56:59Jocko Willink?

  No doubt about it.

• 57:00JP Dinnell?

  Anyways, um, awesome guy. And, you know, you talk about communication from leadership. You talk about a guy that-

• 57:08Jocko Willink?

  You can't say his name, by the way. He's a general now. He, it's, it's very obvious who it is. The commander of the first of 506 during the Battle of Ramadi.

• 57:17JP Dinnell?

  Okay.

• 57:17Jocko Willink?

  A guy by the name of Ronald Clark. Ron Clark was just an unbelievable leader. And, uh, yeah, just an unbelievable leader.

• 57:27JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, Ronald Clark, 2020.

• 57:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 57:29JP Dinnell?

  But, um, awesome, awesome guy, but he, you know, he had the ability to communicate with us to where we wanted to help him.

• 57:37Jocko Willink?

  Of course.

• 57:37JP Dinnell?

  And he was just like, hey, guys, I need help, you know? And that's one thing I learned later on in life is like, when I was doing sales, I'm like, people don't want to be helped, but they want to help. And he knew that, you know? And so he's like, guys, I need help. We're losing guys every day. This is what we're going on. Hey, here's your ROEs. Please go get some. And we're like, Oh, yes. Like this is it. And we had that connection with them and you know, just being able to go out and work for them was phenomenal. And just, it was awesome. I mean.

• 58:07Jocko Willink?

  The Delta Platoon commander formed such a good relationship with those guys and was, and you know, my relationship with him.

• 58:17JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 58:17Jocko Willink?

  I mean, he was, um, just.

• 58:21JP Dinnell?

  Solid dude.

• 58:22Jocko Willink?

  And wanted to get after it.

• 58:24JP Dinnell?

  Yes.

• 58:25Jocko Willink?

  Wanted to get after it and wanted to get after it as much as humanly possible.

• 58:30JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. And then some.

• 58:32Jocko Willink?

  And then a little bit more.

• 58:33JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 58:33Jocko Willink?

  And with a little bit more on top of that. So yeah, it was great, great combination. And you actually, you did a lot of those operations too. So.

• 58:41JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 58:41Jocko Willink?

  Kind of the standard, what we called standard, it wasn't that standard at the time.

• 58:45JP Dinnell?

  Daytime presence patrols get some, you know, and when I did that, I carried the Mark forty six. Five, five, six belt fed action. And it was awesome. You know, you have two hundred rounds on the gun and I threw another eight hundred rounds on my front. And I had another two hundred in the back. So twelve hundred rounds with body armor, grenades, smokes, water.

• 59:05Jocko Willink?

  And that's when I was, when I was telling that story in the beginning, it's like one of those first big operations we did out there. And that's where, that's where that's from. That's where that memory is from, seeing you walking and being, okay. Guess all those way that he acted during training with paintball, he's gonna act the same way right here with his life on the line.

• 59:22JP Dinnell?

  Either walked, uh, it was cool because I either walked, uh, point or rear security because I was a machine gunner, you know, and you want a machine gun up front and you want one in the back because they're coming from the rear. I just remember that, you know, first push that you were talking about, the first real firefight I got into, just cut these dudes in half. And it was awesome. And, uh, you know, it was, you know, everything the Colonel told us was gonna happen, happened. Hey, usually within this amount of timeframe, they start coming out. Here's what they do. They come around the corner, then they distract you and they do this. And this is when the attack happens and like, like clockwork. I mean, these savages were just coming at us exactly how we were told it was going to come at us.

• 1:00:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:03JP Dinnell?

  And that, I think that helped us gain even more respect for the army that we worked for because they could have just been like, hey, go get some. But they're like, hey, go get some and come back so you can continue getting some.

• 1:00:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, the turnover that we would get from those guys was phenomenal and the professionalism that they had, like what you're talking about.

• 1:00:19JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:19Jocko Willink?

  Like the, the Charlie Company Commander.

• 1:00:21JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Jocko Willink?

  Crazy Joe.

• 1:00:23JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Jocko Willink?

  And he, and he was freaking awesome. And one of the things that he would do, and this is when I said, oh, this guy's on the next level. He's doing something that, that I'd never even thought of. Every time he went on patrol in the Malab, he was recording it. He was video recording it. And then he'd come back and review every street corner, every building, every signpost. He knew everything about it. He knew that city. He, he took his job like so seriously. It was, it was phenomenal.

• 1:00:49JP Dinnell?

  I remember the Delta Platoon commander had told me that he was doing that or we knew that. And it really emphasized us to, hey, we need to know this area just as well. And it, I mean, it didn't take long. I'm not trying to be cocky or anything, but within a couple of weeks, like, I didn't need my map. Like I knew that city, you know what I mean? Like, now I had the map on me too. So if I needed to look at it and be like, oh, I'm at this building and hey, we're pushing over here so I can scan real quick and go. But like I, I knew exactly where I was at all times because I, those guys did. And we needed to know that. You can't have a delay in communication when you're in a firefight, you know, or, you know, or guys are down, you know?

• 1:01:29JP Dinnell?

  And there's just, everyone, you know, just hearing over the radio when Cowie got shot. Just like, I'll never forget that, you know? And knowing exactly where they're at and there's a little confusion leaving and I was like, no, we need to go this way. And legitimately just started running that way, you know, cause you just hear Mikey opening up and the Badgers trying to pull him out. You're just, your boys are in a firefight and you just don't know what's gonna happen. And we're trying to get there as fast as we could and it was just like, we got, I mean, we legitimately got there as fast as we could. And it was because we knew we had to be prepared, you know, and could you imagine if we didn't know where exactly they were, where we were?

• 1:02:10JP Dinnell?

  And you're just sitting there like trying to listen to a map, you know, read a map when you hear your boy over the radio like, hey, I've been shot, been shot. And you just hear a huge machine gun just going off and you're just like, like, but dude, the boys we were with, Delta Platoon Commander, deep breath, JP, where are we at? Uh, you know, he knew where we're at, but he's like, hey, where do we need to go? You know, exactly. And, you know, cause he's a, he could have gotten us there, but he wanted me to get us there. Cause I was a point man.

• 1:02:35Jocko Willink?

  About other things.

• 1:02:36JP Dinnell?

  And he doesn't need to be worried about that. Cause he's working two radios, trying to get in, you know, he's got to figure out like, hey, let's get some tanks in here to mow the city down to get our boy out and get them to the hospital, you know, and so.

• 1:02:48Jocko Willink?

  The, well, the story that JP's talking about right there is like the first significant casualty that we had, we had some other guys get fragged a little bit, but that was the first one. Cowie.

• 1:02:57JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:57Jocko Willink?

  Cowie got shot and, uh, bout lost his leg, but they were able to save it. Now he's a stud.

• 1:03:04JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:04Jocko Willink?

  Still.

• 1:03:05JP Dinnell?

  Yep.

• 1:03:07Jocko Willink?

  But, uh, but yeah.

• 1:03:09JP Dinnell?

  What is it? Cheetahs or leopards don't lose their, their spots?

• 1:03:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no doubt, no doubt.

• 1:03:14JP Dinnell?

  He's still warrior inside and out, solid.

• 1:03:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. He's a guy I tell the story about where like, when I went to see him in Charlie Meds, he's all morphined up. We, we rolled in there and I like went to shake his hand like a bro handshake. And, and like, when I grabbed, he reached up, he grabbed my hand and he like pulls me down, right? And, and he, and he's like in my ear and he goes, let me stay.

• 1:03:38JP Dinnell?

  Oh yeah. He was.

• 1:03:39Jocko Willink?

  I'm like, I'm like, hey, bro.

• 1:03:41JP Dinnell?

  You're about to lose your leg.

• 1:03:42Jocko Willink?

  I'm, I didn't tell him that.

• 1:03:43JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Jocko Willink?

  But I was like, hey, bro, let's make sure you get healed up and I think you're gonna have to leave to do that. And he's like, just, he's like, just let me stay. He goes, I don't care. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll clean, you know, but just let me stay. And I was like, bro, we're, uh,

• 1:04:00Jocko Willink?

  It's just go get healed up. If you have to go, go get healed up. We'll bring you back. And of course, he didn't heal up fast enough because it was pretty jacked up. He got an armor piercing round his leg that entered like down by his knee and exited up by his groin.

• 1:04:10JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, it hit the femur, right? Just travel. I mean, he's lucky to have his leg. I mean, he's legitimately lucky. So.

• 1:04:18Jocko Willink?

  I've got to get him on the podcast sometime. His whole life is awesome. All right. Well, you know, you know, I was thinking, well, there's one more op that I was thinking of besides the kind of urban sniper operations you were doing and presence patrols. You need a cool op that was a little bit more like Leif and I were talking about how, oh, you know what? You know, it's not like you see in the movies because of these sniper overwatch positions. We'd have a bunch of people with us. You know, we have 20, 15, 20, 10, 30 people. You have a lot of people to be in these buildings and hold security and all that. Whereas in the movies, they always portray like two guys out in the middle of nowhere. And we always go, yeah, no, that's not that realistic. But you guys actually did one off like that.

• 1:05:00JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, we did. It was full on. It was pretty awesome. Um, yeah. So up in Northern Sophia, we're getting just hammered by mortars, you know, just constantly. We knew that's where they're coming from. So, uh, we get dropped off a little outstation north of, you know, the Malab district and we just did a patrol. It was a long patrol up there. And I remember, you know, we're, you know, hugging the river, trying to stay as close to the river as we can. It's, you know, you go from the dry, just dead city to this lush vegetation and you're trying to patrol through that. And I'm just like,

• 1:05:39JP Dinnell?

  oh, dude, hands, like all the guys in Vietnam, all those guys that just got after it. Like I've always respected them, but that just brought a new level of respect. Like, because we have night vision. They didn't most of the time, you know, it was just like.

• 1:05:55Jocko Willink?

  And it is, it is hard for people to understand that that area north of Ramadi that was like well irrigated by the river, by the Afraid's river, it looked like Vietnam.

• 1:06:04JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:05Jocko Willink?

  It had palm trees. It had like patties and dikes and all that stuff. It looked like Vietnam.

• 1:06:10JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Jocko Willink?

  And Leif was talking about the other day and he's like, yeah, there was like the, uh, bull pulling a plow type situation. Straight up looked like Vietnam.

• 1:06:19JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, it was crazy. So anyways, we go up there and, uh, man, it was, we had dogs that were following us. So, um. I can't say his name, he's still in, but he always, he carried a suppressed MP5 with subsonic rounds. So he was our dog killer. And it was pretty funny. And so he just, you know, these are bad savage dogs. Don't worry. And, and so we're getting up there, you know, they're, you know, barking, giving away our location. So we, you know, handle them, we keep going. And we get set up at night and, you know, we get OP set up and, you know, we're right on the river. Like that's right on the river. Cause we, we know if we need the boats to come in, support us, they can come in, we can get fast extract out of there.

• 1:07:04JP Dinnell?

  And, you know, so me and the badger, we, you know, we have change out into all of our stuff, you know, like we're, we're carrying gear for like three to four days, right? Like it's almost physically impossible to carry that much water. Like, and all your ammo and everything else like that. And so we get it done and we change out, get our ghillie suits. And I just remember like thinking like, dude, this is legit. Like you see like the ambient light, like coming in through the trees where we're all like hidden and vegged up and the guys are set their perimeter. We're in our, we're in our ghillie suits and we just boom. And one of the other guys like, dude, it's awesome. You know, you guys were there and we're turning around. He goes, and you guys are gone. Like you just disappeared

• 1:07:48JP Dinnell?

  in the dark and, you know, we went and got set up, you know? And like I said, you know, the badger was, you know, he, he was a sniper before, you know? So I learned a lot from him. And, but at this time, we both had a good amount of experience of actually on the gun and whatnot. And so he was, you know, no, no ego with them. You know what I mean? He's just so like easy back. He's like, hey, man, this is what we're gonna do. What do you think? I'm like, yeah, let's do it. And then they're saying, I'm like, hey, maybe we should change up that. He's like, all right, yeah, let's do that. And so we end up vegging up in this area that, I mean, it was the only, the, the opportunity for where we had to be wasn't ideal, you know? We legitimately were on the other side of these bushes, out in the open. It was like thick bushes around us. So we could veg up and blend in, but.

• 1:08:34JP Dinnell?

  We were out there by ourselves and we knew that and we, after we did our recon, we told the guys like, hey, this is the only place we can go. This is legitimately the only place we can go to be able to, you know, get these guys. And so our contingency was if something happened, we were gonna have to wait a while before the guys could actually move to a position to provide cover fire and, you know, everything else like that. And we're like, alright, cool. You know, not a big deal. Yeah. And so like, cool, we have our pistols and sniper rifles, you know what I mean? And so we go off, we get vegged up, we, you know, help veg each other, get ourselves into position. Rifles are laying like kind of underneath the, uh, the drag bags which are vegged up. And we had our pistols out just cause I mean, there's, I know people can't see us right now, but there's the distance from me to you, we had people walking past us. And it was just one of those things.

• 1:09:19Jocko Willink?

  So three, four, five meters away.

• 1:09:21JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, five meters.

• 1:09:22Jocko Willink?

  There's, there's people walking by.

• 1:09:24JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, just walking by us. And we're out there, you know, all throughout the night, the day, you know, it's one of those things where like, alright, I have to pee. You know, you're not trying to drink too much water because you don't have to use it. But at the same time, you're like, it's hot, so I need to. Luckily, since it is that hot, you're in a ghillie suit, you're sweating most of it out anyways. But, you know, a couple of times we had to pee, so you like slightly roll over, dig a hole, relieve yourself, cover back up and lay back on top of it, you know? And it was good though. Um, you know, we actually, uh, we got, got mortared at that position. And, um,

• 1:09:59JP Dinnell?

  we, uh, we got lucky. You know, we definitely had our angels there because, you know, it messed up our radios temporarily. And, um, everything around us was just kinda tore up, like all the bushes and everything. And we didn't get hit by one thing. And, you know, it was just like, hey, what do we do? Do we stay here? Do we move them? Well, our radios are jacked up. So, you know, luckily, you know, they didn't move to us, you know, and start laying out cover fire while we're trying to move back to them. So we just waited a little bit, made sure like we weren't trying to get suckered out or, you know, ambushed or anything. And then we just slowly made our way back to the group. We told them what happened. I mean, dude, me and, me and him were pretty jacked up from that. Like we were throwing up, like the, just a blast and everything else.

• 1:10:44Jocko Willink?

  Probably one twenties, you think?

• 1:10:46JP Dinnell?

  Honest, I have no idea. There's a couple of them, but like.

• 1:10:49Jocko Willink?

  If they rocked you that hard, then they were big.

• 1:10:52JP Dinnell?

  We were throwing up the whole patrol back.

• 1:10:53Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, they were big.

• 1:10:54JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I mean, we were both throwing up. Um, we both were, we both had blood in our, our urine and stool.

• 1:11:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01JP Dinnell?

  After that, and it was just, I mean, I was, but you know, whatever. I mean, we, we got the guys and, you know, we called in, uh, counter stuff and we came back and everyone was happy because they didn't get more, the base didn't get more for a while. Cause I remember after that, the laundry guys, you know, these, these guys were there doing the laundry, like they're so stoked that we did that. And we're like, man, we're, we're stoked. We got to do that. You know what I mean? That's awesome. They would come and like, come and pick up our laundry for us. And we're like, dude, no, we're good. Like, this is awkward. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, go pick up your boy's laundry. Like, we're, we're good. But it was, it was really cool to be able to do that. You know, something completely outside of the box that we hadn't been doing the whole time. So we were able to go from,

• 1:11:46JP Dinnell?

  and it just came from good planning. We had, like I said, we had solid leadership. So we had good plans in place.

• 1:11:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. And it was the amount of, of sustained combat operations for the whole task unit was, was, was damn, it was an incredible op tempo.

• 1:12:04JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:04Jocko Willink?

  And it was just like op, op, op, op, every day to one unit, two unit, three elements going out, four elements, it's all the time.

• 1:12:13JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:15Jocko Willink?

  So

• 1:12:19Jocko Willink?

  we start getting towards the end of this deployment.

• 1:12:24Jocko Willink?

  And obviously

• 1:12:27Jocko Willink?

  Mark got killed on August 2nd. And

• 1:12:34Jocko Willink?

  and then September 29th.

• 1:12:41Jocko Willink?

  Mikey gets killed.

• 1:12:43JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:43Jocko Willink?

  And we're, I mean, we're,

• 1:12:48Jocko Willink?

  we're not, we're not done operating by any stretch because we did a bunch more operations, but it was definitely winding down at that point.

• 1:12:54JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:55Jocko Willink?

  We had to start thinking about redeployment.

• 1:12:58JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:59Jocko Willink?

  And, uh,

• 1:13:01JP Dinnell?

  I mean, we're all packed up. I remember because we weren't at a, at a Crickador anymore.

• 1:13:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we had guys that were, you were one of the guys that had come back from Crickador as we started trying to filter guys back to consolidate.

• 1:13:13JP Dinnell?

  I was so mad I had to come back. You know, I think about every day when I feel this finger because I, I, you know, I cut my finger down to the bone and they actually had to Kazvac me out, uh, to go get surgery on my finger because they thought I was going to lose it because we tried to work on it across the street at the aid station, which those guys are phenomenal combat medics over there. And when they were like, dude, we need a bird for you. You're going to lose your finger. Um, Delta Platoon Commander and the Badger were like, dude, we have, yeah, absolutely. You know, so I went back, grabbed some gear and, um, yeah, I feel that every day.

• 1:13:53JP Dinnell?

  It's just hard. Um, like that was the only op I wasn't on, you know, and every time we went out, I always said a group prayer for the guys. It didn't matter if it was like, hey, we have to go right now. Delta Platoon Commander or the Badger or someone would be like, hey, we gotta get JP real quick. And I'd say a group prayer and we'd roll. And that was the only one that I wasn't a part of. And, uh, you know, Mikey was my A Dub Gunner, you know, he was always next to me when I was doing my Sniper over watches and he was next to me when I was rocking point, you know, because you needed a Dub Gunner. And JP might've gotten a little crazy towards the last half of the deployment and started to walk in point with the 300 Win Mag and Mikey was there and I wasn't there, you know, and.

• 1:14:39JP Dinnell?

  I don't know. So.

• 1:14:43JP Dinnell?

  Well, the good news is you got to go home with him. Yes, yeah, got to escort his body home.

• 1:14:51JP Dinnell?

  Which was

• 1:14:55JP Dinnell?

  unlike anything else, you know, you're like, cool. You know, you get to be a part of that, but also at the same time, you're like, this is really shitty to be a part of. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know, it's like, yeah, I wanted to be there and make sure everything went well. And I just remember us flying back and just

• 1:15:14JP Dinnell?

  just, just staring at the flag over his coffin, you know? And some guys would, you know, lay next to the casket and we'd lean up against it.

• 1:15:29JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, it was just getting to bring him home was important to be a part of that. But, uh, you know, everybody felt so much guilt. And, uh, we all, we all try to keep each other accountable on that, you know, it's like, hey, man, this is war, you know? Mikey saved a lot of lives, you know? And we made an impact over there. And so it wasn't like it was for nothing. And what he did, I mean, the guys' lives that he saved, they all now have families and kids, you know, a couple of them had kids. Mikey had the easy out. And just like he always did, he never took the easy road.

• 1:16:13JP Dinnell?

  He took the harder road, the road that would actually make a difference. And this time it was alive of those, of those guys around him. And

• 1:16:24JP Dinnell?

  it was just the ride back, I mean, you're just thinking about all that and you know, it was also kind of a blur as well, you know, like I remember, you know, just like just rubbing the flag, you know?

• 1:16:39JP Dinnell?

  The flag's always been very important to me. I remember graduating, how we can just sing the, the flag fly and then you hear it in the national anthem.

• 1:16:49JP Dinnell?

  And just seeing it over one of your boys' caskets was, just brought a new level of connection and love for that amazing flag that we have. And I just remember I just sat there and I just would just rub the flag, just rub it, you know? Cause I had flags that I carried with me on every deployment, every mission. I still do that sometimes. Like my wife, Amanda, will just, I'll be doing something and I'll find a flag and I'll just, I'll just kind of rub it. And she's like, she knows, you know, she's like, that's like my little trigger, you know, I'm just, my trigger point, I'm just, I just started thinking about things again.

• 1:17:27JP Dinnell?

  And, you know, I've taught my kids, Aiden, Cora and Nola, to love and respect the flag. Like whenever they see a flag, they're like, daddy, daddy, it's your favorite thing. Daddy is daddy's favorite thing, you know? They love getting American flag t-shirts and shorts. Uh, they saw some American flag cowboy boots. Of course, my daughters want those now. And I've been honest with my kids, you know? My boy, Aiden, I call him my bonus boy. He's my stepson. I love him just like mine. You know, he, he asked me about the flag and why is it so important to me? And I told him, I'm like, you know, it was, it's been draped over a lot of caskets of my buddies

• 1:18:10JP Dinnell?

  that didn't make it home, that were killed overseas. He's such a special kid. He was just like, that makes sense. And, you know, and he just, he sees a flag and I explained to him why a flag's at half mass. And he's even said, hey, I'm sorry, that flag's at half mass. Like, he doesn't know why, but he knows something happened. And he knows what it does to me and guys like you, or the flags at half mass, something horrible has happened. And he knows that, you know? And so, I just remember, you know, we, I think he went to Bethesda, and then we continued on to San Diego.

• 1:18:51JP Dinnell?

  And um, just tried to mentally reset for a couple of days. You know, you're back in San Diego. It's awesome, but it just didn't.

• 1:19:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:01JP Dinnell?

  It had nothing, you know, because you knew you're waiting to receive your, one of your boy's bodies, you know? So it didn't matter where we were. It didn't matter that we're in San Diego. Like, we didn't want to be in San Diego. We want to be back overseas still, you know?

• 1:19:19Jocko Willink?

  When.

• 1:19:23Jocko Willink?

  When we went to Habanea to put him on the bird. And.

• 1:19:47Jocko Willink?

  Casket was open.

• 1:19:48JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:49Jocko Willink?

  And we were just filing by.

• 1:19:54Jocko Willink?

  And I remember you were ahead of me. We were walking into like a mill van. It wasn't, it wasn't like a one-way thing.

• 1:20:01JP Dinnell?

  It was a cold mill van.

• 1:20:02Jocko Willink?

  It was a cold mill van. And you were ahead of me. You know, you were one, you were just, you were literally right ahead of me. And you walked in and you know, you, you. You know, you took your last look at Mike and you, you put your hand on the, on the casket. And you turned around and I was right, you know, we were just looking at each other and.

• 1:20:33Jocko Willink?

  When I saw your face, the look in your face. I was.

• 1:20:46Jocko Willink?

  I felt super worried. Because I could tell that you were tore up.

• 1:20:58Jocko Willink?

  And I said to myself, hey, man, Jocko, you need to get your fucking game together right now. And be strong.

• 1:21:12JP Dinnell?

  And you were, and that's what we needed. And guys like the Delta Platoon commander.

• 1:21:19JP Dinnell?

  Super, super strong for us, but you saw them. I mean, everybody's hurting, you know, it was. You know, that deployment, you can't not be close with somebody, you know, especially someone like Mikey, man. Like he, he knows I like my sleep. And so he would make sure I didn't get my sleep. Just because Mikey didn't sleep. And we were, we, you know. We're our rooms right next to each other, you know, I was back in this corner. He was over in this other corner. There's a sheet of plywood between the two of us. And he was always like, what's up, Holmes? He's like, hey, Holmes, you sleeping? I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to, Holmes. He's like, he's like, cool. And he'd open up the tarp, you know, the little cami, you know, tarp that I had over for my door.

• 1:22:04JP Dinnell?

  And just come in and sit on the edge of the bed. I'm like.

• 1:22:08JP Dinnell?

  What's up, buddy? He's like, nothing. Just want, you know, he'd just talk about family stuff and you could tell a lot was on his mind and, you know. And uh. And he's like, hey, you want to watch the newest episode of Thirsty Traveler? My parents sent me the Thirsty Traveler. I was like, no, but I'm awake. So I guess we're going to watch the Thirsty Traveler. Because there's a couple of times where I'd be like, hey, bro, like I'm trying to sleep, like just go do your own thing. You know what I mean?

• 1:22:35JP Dinnell?

  And he had a little hole that he carved into the plywood between our rooms and he would crack chem lights. And push them through and they'd fall right next to where I was sleeping. And I'm like. I'm going to strangle this guy, but it was my boy Mikey, you know, like he was my boy. Um, you know, we were real close in the workup. And then obviously deployment, you know, we should ride street bikes together and.

• 1:22:59JP Dinnell?

  Anyway, so deployment, he was just fun. It was just, I say all it says is he did that with everybody. It was hard not to be close to him. It was, um, you know, there's a different connection when you're at, when you're legitimately at in war with your boys. You know, that's why all the army and marine guys that we served with, like anytime I see, I still see some of them once in a while. I randomly ran into one of them up in Ohio and I was just like, dude, and I just, I was up there on a sales trip and I just ditched my sales team guys, you know, because I wanted to hang out with them, you know, I just, and then there's been other trips where I, same thing, another one, my boy Nick Hobbs, you know, ran into him, I was with my sales team and it's like, come on, you know, it's just, that connection is just, it's hard to explain.

• 1:23:42JP Dinnell?

  I mean, you guys know how it is doing jujitsu and combat sports where you're rolling with guys and you, you legitimately, you're helping guys cut weight and just all this stuff, like there's that bond and that connection. Take that, times it by a thousand and then add some more and that's the connection you get with these boys and combat. So it was, it was just real hard. I mean, and part of it is, that's just who I am. Like I wear my heart on my sleeve. I, I just connect and attach to people very closely and, you know, Mikey is just, it was, it was really hard and.

• 1:24:14Jocko Willink?

  And that's the look that I saw on your face. That's the look that I saw on your face. I was like, and I know, I mean, obviously I know what kind of personality you have. I knew what kind of personality you have and I saw that look of devastation. And it was the first time, because we'd been together, I mean, we, we were, we heard the news, we, you know, but it was the first time that I saw your, your look where it was almost like that was the first time that you really realized that Mikey was gone. That was it. Maybe I'm right or wrong, but from the look in your face, I was like, okay, he is, he is devastated right now. And, and that's what I thought to myself. And again, I mean,

• 1:24:53Jocko Willink?

  I don't, I saw you as my little brother, I mean, for sure. I don't mean that in any kind of derogatory way in any sense. But I literally saw you as like my blood little brother.

• 1:25:04JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:05Jocko Willink?

  And so to see you just devastated like that. And I knew that you were looking at me like, well, okay, what's Jocko gonna do? And I knew that, I knew what I had to do.

• 1:25:14JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:14Jocko Willink?

  Was I had to show like, listen, this is what we do.

• 1:25:17JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:17Jocko Willink?

  This is who we are. Get your shit together, Jocko, and, and handle this. And not saying I didn't, you know, not saying I was a, a robot.

• 1:25:27JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:28Jocko Willink?

  But I knew that I had to maintain strength.

• 1:25:32JP Dinnell?

  You have to.

• 1:25:33Jocko Willink?

  And find that so that you guys could go, alright, we're gonna be okay.

• 1:25:38JP Dinnell?

  What, what have we, what's been pounded into our minds since buds? Win the fight. Like, if you're in a fight, win the fight. Win the firefight, right? And right then, that, our fight was, you had to keep the guys together, you know, that's why it's always self aid buddy aid, right? You get shot, you get hurt, you take care of yourselves, because if you're in a firefight, your boys are going to win the firefight first.

• 1:26:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:02JP Dinnell?

  Before they can take care of you. That's just part of it. That's how we operate. And you had to do that.

• 1:26:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no doubt.

• 1:26:10JP Dinnell?

  I mean, that, you're in that highest leadership position, like, yeah, it just. And the same thing, like, I had to get myself together, you know, just because other guys in the platoon, like, I thought, or at least I felt like they looked up to me as well. And, you know, especially after that deployment, you know, I just, you had to keep yourself together, you know, and. It was just, it's just a weird, weird, you know, I don't know, it was the first time I ever experienced that, you know, at that level, so.

• 1:26:40Jocko Willink?

  And then, you know, obviously, Mikey's funeral, which you were at, I, I obviously wasn't there, because like you said, we, we were still, you know, most of us were still in Iraq.

• 1:26:50JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:51Jocko Willink?

  And had to, had to finish out the deployment and, and do the turnover with the guys that were coming in from, from Team Five. And.

• 1:27:00Jocko Willink?

  You know, that was, that was another thing was just, you know, I mean, I talk about all the time like, and even when we were talking prior to, prior to recording today, you know, I was like, hey, this is, th- this is kind of blurry to me. Like, I was asking you who went home with you. I mean, I was like, okay, you know, these guys are gone. Okay, here's what I gotta do. I gotta focus on the next thing. I like, couldn't get dragged down or think about that anymore because I had to, like you said, I had to do my work. I had to do my job. And, you know, I, I, I think that's, the good thing is for guys that were able to go to the funeral and everything. It's like, you get to, you get to get that like bit of closure. Yeah. Well, a lot of, you know, the guys that were still over there, we were just, we didn't get that, you know, until we got home. Yeah.

• 1:27:42Jocko Willink?

  We got home and, and, you know, get to go see Mikey's grave and, and um, meet with his family and get to know his family and, and get to be together again as a, as a troop. And so all those things are kind of how you, you, you go from that anguish. Yeah. Or I should say for me, the buried anguish of, you know, that you have to bury on deployment. When you get home, you go, okay, now we can get this stuff out and discuss it and at least maybe not discuss it. I don't need to say anything to you, JP. I don't need to talk to you about it. You know, I know. But we can, we can settle it, you know? Yeah. And I think when guys don't do that, when guys don't think about it,

• 1:28:24Jocko Willink?

  when they keep it buried all the time, that's when it can be really problematic is, you know, you, you, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta face the fact and you gotta be okay with it eventually that, hey, this is what happened. Yeah. And, you know, w- w- when we talk about like, who, who's, I, I guess you could say, you know, who's to blame? And I, I told this to multiple people. Matter of fact, I told everybody. You want to blame somebody? You blame the fucking moosh. Yeah. They're the ones that did this. Absolutely. Yeah, that's what happened. Yeah. And what we're gonna do is Continue to kill more of them. Continue to go kill more of them. Yeah.

• 1:29:08Jocko Willink?

  So that deployment obviously was a was a was a game changer for us.

• 1:29:14JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:14Jocko Willink?

  For a huge impact on our lives and and you know, everything really that that we're doing to this day. And you you got home, I moved over to, you know, take over the training command there. You started another workup, but you got hurt.

• 1:29:30JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, so.

• 1:29:31Jocko Willink?

  Hurt your shoulder.

• 1:29:32JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I was just a desert, I smoked, you know, just you come home from that deployment, you know, initially just still kind of messed up. Well, not still kind of. I was messed up with the whole Mikey thing. I remember I went and told Yarborough, I was like, Ken, I just want to go to PECOM. Like, just let me reset. He's like, okay. And then he he knows and he knows me. He's like, all right, cool. Yeah, Roger that. Knowing that's not what he's gonna do. And I'm driving back up to Sacramento on leave. He's like, hey, um, I know you said you want to go to PECOM, but yeah, we need to get after it again. So you're gonna go to Iraq again or possibly Afghanistan. I was like, yeah, Roger that. Yeah, I don't even know why I said that.

• 1:30:14JP Dinnell?

  You know, like, it was just it was one of those things where you're just like, ah, you know, I'm gonna go do PECOM. Go to Thailand or whatever.

• 1:30:20Jocko Willink?

  Stay in Delta Platoon?

• 1:30:21JP Dinnell?

  Uh, no, they switched it all up, so.

• 1:30:23Jocko Willink?

  I remember that, but there were a couple of guys that stayed there.

• 1:30:25JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, yeah. So, no, I was gonna be all for a Bravo with him.

• 1:30:31Jocko Willink?

  It so after our deployment with TU Bruiser, they took it instead of keeping it together because there was all this experience in these two platoons. Instead of keeping it together, they just split everybody apart into different platoons. So other other platoons would have these guys in their platoons with a ton of combat experience.

• 1:30:48JP Dinnell?

  Guys were pissed.

• 1:30:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, everyone was pissed.

• 1:30:50JP Dinnell?

  Like, super pissed. But yeah, so we start workup and um.

• 1:30:56JP Dinnell?

  Rip my shoulder out of joint, my right one. And it was a bad one. Not like I'd done that multiple times before. Like, I mean, we're out at Nylund, the, you know, doing our desert warfare, getting it on. And my shoulder came out and I just relocate the shoulder and, you know, suck it off a little bit and keep going. And this was a bad one. So ended up having to have surgery. Like, all right, cool. You know, you have surgery, you'll miss a little bit of workup, but you know, we'll catch it up and we'll get going. And when I had surgery, they punctured my brachial nerve or did some damage to it. So I would actually drop stuff. And can't be in an active duty platoon when you're dropping stuff, you know, randomly. Because I was at rehab and I just, I couldn't

• 1:31:37JP Dinnell?

  grab on to stuff, or I would just drop stuff. So then they pulled me. And I went to BUDS for a little bit as an indoc instructor. And a good time over there. Learned a lot about, you know, just professionalism and, you know, things change and evolve and, you know. So went over to Trade It with you guys. And you and Z, you guys pulled me over there. And it was awesome, you know, stepped into assaults. And where we're doing all the CTC and urban warfare training and Trade It was awesome. You know, I'm working for you again, which is, I'm like, yes, we're getting after

• 1:32:21Jocko Willink?

  As it should be.

• 1:32:22JP Dinnell?

  Yes, absolutely. And I learned a lot at Trade It about good leadership and bad leadership. You know, there's some guys that Trade It that hadn't really done anything. And Jocko was pushing those guys out of there. Not in a bad way, but just like, hey, man, like, you're not going to, you know, the war's really been going on for a while. Training's, you know, combat is getting intense. Training needs to be intense. And it needs to come from guys that actually have experience or are willing to listen to the guys that have the experience and apply that, you know. And so it really shaped and changed the platform of training for all the West Coast SEAL teams. And so I was super proud to be a part of that. And I learned a lot about leadership

• 1:33:06JP Dinnell?

  and growth. You know, I learned good bosses and bad bosses and actually ended up becoming the LPO for for MOUT, or I guess it's now called SOUT, you know, so I ran all the urban warfare training for a year. And that was awesome. I got to learn to actually how to work with guys and actually manage guys, you know, effectively like, and

• 1:33:25JP Dinnell?

  Which it's funny, you know, you get on the outside and you're like, man, what you do on the outside is no big deal. You know, compared to the teams where you're like in charge of like a hundred plus role players and 17 instructors and logistics for travel and hotel. And make sure all the training is set up and managing the guys that need to be talking with the other units that we're talking to. And at this time, I'm still only 24, you know, maybe 25. I don't even think I was 25. Oh, no, I was 25, you know, and maybe, and so I just learned a lot about that. And that was pretty cool. And then I spent a lot of time at CQC, which every good team guy loves. Of course.

• 1:34:04JP Dinnell?

  Urban warfare, land warfare and CQC, you know, and, um, you know, I had some really good bosses over there as well. My boy Chuckie, he's still in, so I respect his name as well. Uh, we actually lived together and I worked for him. And that was a huge lesson of,

• 1:34:26JP Dinnell?

  you know, which we all have in the teams is balancing personal and professional because the teams are very tight. You know, you could go out and drink with your bosses, hang out with them and then at work the next day. But different when you're living with somebody and, um, man, I was late for work one day. We're on the road and I was like, man, I'm running a little late. He's like, you better not be late, you know, something along those lines. So I get there, I'm like a minute late, right? Dude, I had a bond like restriction, not like really full on restriction like military thinks about it. But it was like, he was like, yeah, you've got to do this. So basically I was a little,

• 1:35:06JP Dinnell?

  little go to guy where I got to do all the work, you know, and, and it was good though, you know, he is, I expected that of him. Like I knew, like I made a mistake. I got to pay the man and he, you know, I put him in a hard position, you know, which was unfair to him and. You know, you can't be doing that to your boys, you know, like you can't take advantage of like, oh, my buddy's my boss, I can do this. No, my buddy's my boss, I'm gonna work even harder for him. And, you know, and that's what, you know, I was again, a little upset with myself and, yeah, there's a couple of times like he'd have to sit me down and we'd just talk. He's like, hey, man, you know, you can't be doing this stuff or you need to be focused on this. And he really helped with my professional development.

• 1:35:47JP Dinnell?

  You know, really helped and helped me learn a lot of stuff that I was able to apply to the outside and be successful. And, um, you know, he's still a great friend of mine. He's got a beautiful family and it's just, it's just, it's awesome seeing him grow over the years.

• 1:36:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he's still kicking ass in the teams.

• 1:36:03JP Dinnell?

  Dude, he's a legit boss, like the guy, type of guy, like, I really wanna work for him, you know? And so I just took a lot of the stuff that I learned from him and I've applied it to the outside and, uh, it's been awesome.

• 1:36:15Jocko Willink?

  And you, I mean, you ended up on the outside because you made a decision to, to get out.

• 1:36:21JP Dinnell?

  Yep.

• 1:36:21Jocko Willink?

  And.

• 1:36:22JP Dinnell?

  I'm a quitter.

• 1:36:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the joke is in the SEAL teams, if, you know, no matter what you've done or how long you've been in for, if you ever get out of the SEAL teams, you're a quitter. So, um, that's what they tell you. So you decided to get out, uh, pretty much based on your family, right?

• 1:36:41JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I got out, um, you know, I'd already had a failed marriage.

• 1:36:46JP Dinnell?

  You know, I have a son that's here in California that I'll ever get to see. And, um, you know, I met Amanda and just, I mean, she's the love of my life. She's amazing. She deals with me and deals with me very well.

• 1:37:00Jocko Willink?

  I give her big props for that.

• 1:37:01JP Dinnell?

  Absolutely.

• 1:37:03Jocko Willink?

  Nice work, Amanda.

• 1:37:04JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, she's, you know, you watch the movie 300, you know, the queen?

• 1:37:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:08JP Dinnell?

  That's her.

• 1:37:09Jocko Willink?

  Right on.

• 1:37:09JP Dinnell?

  A hundred percent, you know? And, um, you know, she was gonna move to San Diego with, uh, with Aiden. And I was super fired up about that. And then, uh, she was pregnant. Like, okay, cool. Still, still happening. And then pregnant with twins. She was like, er, nope, I'm not leaving mom and my support group.

• 1:37:30JP Dinnell?

  I remember I was so mad and it caused a lot of issues because I held on to that anger longer than I should have, you know, and I'm just so angry and upset. But now that I look at it, you know, she's a small town Mississippi girl. Yeah. I mean, she's gorgeous, you know, she's awesome, but she's a small town girl and you know, sometimes we're back home, she'll be driving, she's like, hey, you can drive, you know, because she doesn't want to drive in the traffic on, you know, the road, the main roads. And I think about that, I'm like, that's like no traffic here in San Diego. So it wouldn't have been fair. And then all of a sudden, it's like for me to expect her to move to San Diego with Aiden and A, you know, I'm taking him away from his dad. So that wasn't really fair, you know? Um, and I could relate to that. And, you know, her parents are awesome.

• 1:38:15JP Dinnell?

  So then also in her friends, you know, she had a good support group and it's like, you know, I was just like, man, and a couple of things didn't work out when I had screened, you know, I had another surgery when I was out and I just took it as, hey, you know, this is maybe the time I need to move on. It's a good chapter in my life, an amazing chapter that I'll never forget. And it's very important. It's who helped mold me as a man. Um, but I absolutely was not going, I was not, not going to be there for Amanda and the kids, you know? And so I got out and there's a lot of guys that are upset about that in the teams, you know, and. Talking about me? Yeah, you and a couple of other guys. Yeah. A couple of other guys are still active, you know, but, um, so I got out and, um, it

• 1:39:00JP Dinnell?

  was a rough transition. You go from, I'm born and raised in Sacramento, California and lived in San Diego my whole life, or I mean, I'm sorry, lived in San Diego the whole time in the Navy. And then I'm in North Mississippi.

• 1:39:17JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. Awesome. Just, I just, man, you talk about culture shock. It's cool to go visit, you know, I used to always love when we'd go out there for work, but you're leaving after two weeks and now all of a sudden I'm living there. And it was just nothing bad with the South or where I live. It just for me, it was a huge change and. I go from being a SEAL to now I'm doing sales at a financial job, a financial company. Which of course I get after it because you have to provide for your family, but just a transition and I made the mistake of not reaching out to people and asking and help, you know what I mean? Like, um, one of my boys, he's still in, Los, you know, go by his little nickname.

• 1:39:59JP Dinnell?

  And I did reach out to him a couple of times and he was real solid. He would reach out to me. He'd be like, hey, man, how you doing? How is JP really doing, you know? And I'd talk to him about stuff. He's like, man, that's not good, bro. Like, we need to, you know, whatever. And there's times where he's like, all right, well, you know, you just know what you need to do. And, you know, uh, Chucky, same thing. Chucky would reach out to me as well. And he'd come out there for training and he'd come over and hang out with the family and the kids, you know? He's my boy, you know? And so I found a gym and, uh, a new MMA gym was opening up like right around the corner from the house. And I was like, oh. Boom. Yes. You know what I mean? And, uh, came really close with a couple of guys, uh, Jake and Zach Underwood.

• 1:40:41JP Dinnell?

  They're actually from Union City, same city Aaron Vaughn was born and raised in. Uh, so they already knew about him. And I didn't tell them what I did, you know, they had no idea what I did. And, uh, I was like, yeah, they're like Union City. I was like, oh, cool. I know Aaron Vaughn. And they're like, how, how do you know Aaron Vaughn? I'm like, oh, we used to work together, like, well, what do you mean you used to work with them? You know, and I told them like, what? Oh, cool. And, uh, you know, a couple of other fighters from the gym, Joe Pass, Andy and Teddy, like just my boys, you know? Like out there, they became like, they became my team guy buddies out there. Like they're cut from the same cloth as us, you know? And just down to earth guys that legitimately always, they have my back out there and they,

• 1:41:23JP Dinnell?

  it was weird because I never really explained much to them about my time in the teams, but they knew I was having a hard time transitioning and they were just there for me, you know? They're just there at the gym. They'd push me to my limits. You know, they're like, hey, you're going to start fighting. I'm like, awesome. You know, and so, you know, I have seven amateur MMA fights and just a challenge of cutting weight and just training with the boys and sparring and. You know, I do it as a stress reliever, which is funny, you know, cause like you watch some of my YouTube videos. And the announcer's like, yeah, and Jeremiah Patrick says he trains as a stress reliever. That's unique. Like they don't know how to like, you know, they don't have to react to it because everyone else is like, I want to be the next USC champion.

• 1:42:03JP Dinnell?

  And I had a horrible life and I hate my parents and I'm just, you know, I'm like, yeah, I have an awesome life and make really good money. And I just want to have a little stress reliever, you know, it's funny, you know, like, you know, I wasn't fighting to turn pro because I need to make money. I was just like, there's my stress reliever and it was being around guys that were like-minded again.

• 1:42:25Jocko Willink?

  Fighting.

• 1:42:26JP Dinnell?

  Yes.

• 1:42:27Jocko Willink?

  Fighting is fun and sometimes if you can't get a machine gun to fight with, it's fun to fight with your fists.

• 1:42:32JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:33Jocko Willink?

  And it's fun. You know, it's, it's in your, it's in your, it's part of your instinct as a human.

• 1:42:39JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I know it should be.

• 1:42:41Jocko Willink?

  Well, yeah, man. Yeah. I mean, I guess, I guess for some people it's not, but for the people that I know, it's part of their instinct as a human is.

• 1:42:49JP Dinnell?

  You should be able to defend yourself.

• 1:42:50Jocko Willink?

  Be able to fight, you know?

• 1:42:51JP Dinnell?

  You should.

• 1:42:51Jocko Willink?

  Even you watch little kids, little six-year-old, seven-year-old kids. You bring any random six-year-old or seven-year-old boy into a jujitsu place and put them on a room with padded walls and padded floor. And you say, do whatever you want. They're going to end up attacking each other. That's the way it works.

• 1:43:07JP Dinnell?

  Uh, that was my daughter's, like, I got them in jujitsu two weeks before they turned three.

• 1:43:12Jocko Willink?

  Nice.

• 1:43:13JP Dinnell?

  It was most of the owners of gym and Joel, uh, he's a former team one guy. He's a part owner of the gym. He's a five-time world champion. And I believe it's Gee, four-time world champion, no Gee. I don't think he's had one point scored on him in the last five years. Yeah. So just bringing the team guy reputation into jujitsu world, you know, people are just, just.

• 1:43:34Jocko Willink?

  Who is it?

• 1:43:35JP Dinnell?

  Joel Gentry.

• 1:43:36Jocko Willink?

  I don't know.

• 1:43:37JP Dinnell?

  Team one, gee, so solid.

• 1:43:39Jocko Willink?

  How old?

• 1:43:39JP Dinnell?

  He's, he's 50 something.

• 1:43:42Jocko Willink?

  How the hell do I not know him? He must have been the teams are the same. I mean, I was at team one for like eight years.

• 1:43:48JP Dinnell?

  Maybe it's when you went to the East Coast. I don't know. Anyway, super solid guy.

• 1:43:52Jocko Willink?

  I remember you when you started, when you started fighting.

• 1:43:55JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:55Jocko Willink?

  And you were like, I'm gonna, you're like, I'm gonna fight. You, you know, cause you sent me texts too.

• 1:44:00JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 1:44:00Jocko Willink?

  You sent me a text like, hey, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm starting to train. And then like a month later, you're like, dude, I'm, I'm, I'm getting into it. And then a month later, you're like, bro, I can't believe I didn't train with you all the time. Cause you know, I used to train.

• 1:44:11JP Dinnell?

  Pissed.

• 1:44:12Jocko Willink?

  But like, I'll train with anybody anytime. And you would train with me like once a month, when you could have been training with me seven days a week.

• 1:44:19JP Dinnell?

  I was furious.

• 1:44:20Jocko Willink?

  I was, I was, I was laughing inside and I was also pissed and I was like.

• 1:44:24JP Dinnell?

  I tell people that. I'm like, yeah. So I basically could have been doing jujitsu since 2005 with Jocko.

• 1:44:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:32JP Dinnell?

  And people are like, what? I'm like, yeah, I could have, but you know, I just, I, I guess I never really got the like, the taste, like I, I like to stand, I don't know. I'm an idiot. That's why I did it.

• 1:44:43Jocko Willink?

  You called yourself, you called yourself an idiot when you were talking about your youth before. And I realized that when I bring, um, team guys on here, when they talk about like their past, the term idiot comes up all the time. I know I do it all. I'm like, I was an idiot.

• 1:44:57JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:58Jocko Willink?

  And Tony's like, I was an idiot. It's just like classic, you know?

• 1:45:02JP Dinnell?

  You know, I mean, like, and, and then when I tell people like, yeah, you know, since 2005 with Jocko, I could have been rolling and training all the time. And then when you opened your gym, you know, guys like Echo and his brother and Dean Lister and you. No, I was there, but I was always doing the stand up stuff. And I was doing jujitsu just to do jujitsu. I didn't do any of the MMA stuff, you know? Now I look back and I just legitimately get upset about it sometimes. I'll tell people like, yeah, I could have done. And they're like, you're an idiot. They're like Jocko, Dean Lister, and you know, like, it's just whatever. I mean, hey, everything happens for a reason. I mean, I've done pretty well so far. I'm six and one and you know, the guys out there are solid.

• 1:45:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. No, you felt good last night.

• 1:45:45JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:45Jocko Willink?

  Cause we trained last night.

• 1:45:47JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. I hadn't done anything in like 16 months.

• 1:45:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:49JP Dinnell?

  You know, I had that, I had that injury. And I went into my last fight. You know, my coaches were like, dude, I'm pulling you. And Joel, dude, he's such a legit badass, just tough. Like people are terrified of him, but he has the other side that people don't realize team guys have where he's like, hey. I'm pulling you from this fight like I can't let you get hurt. You know, like the nurturing, like you gotta take care of your boys. Cause I went into it with a facial fracture from here down to here. All these teeth are still numb from it. I had a deviated septum, crushed sinuses, and a herniated disc in my neck.

• 1:46:22Jocko Willink?

  What'd you do? Get in a fight with a bear?

• 1:46:24JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, sparring Teddy Holder, you know, who knocked out Thiago Silva. Yeah, that's one of my boys and Andy Uruk, Bellator fighter. I mean, Zach, all these guys, I mean, just they get after it, you know? And um,

• 1:46:37Jocko Willink?

  I hope they get after it a little bit less in your sparring sessions from now on.

• 1:46:40JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, we learned that. Well, and also it was pretty,

• 1:46:43Jocko Willink?

  That's old school, man. I'm telling you right now. That is old school. You don't need to spar like that.

• 1:46:47JP Dinnell?

  No, we know that. And you know, and the guys have changed it up. Guys have legitimately changed it up because guys were getting knocked out in fights. And anyway, we could talk, that could be a whole nother podcast, but they got really changed it up. And so, but I, you know, when I got the call for that fight, I had fought not too close before that with this guy, a tough, tough guy, you know, ours was like a grudge match, you know, everyone thought we hated each other. And, you know, we just, dude, we sold so many tickets. It was insane. Like, we each sold over 110 tickets.

• 1:47:20Jocko Willink?

  So you're like the Conor McGregor of amateur fighting?

• 1:47:22JP Dinnell?

  Conor McGregor, amateur fighting in the mid-south, where the mid-south thinks it's like the next big thing. And that's like, you know, and so, so anyways, me and that guy, Danny Shell, good guy, you know, he's awesome dude. He really is a really good guy, you know what I mean? But we just, we'd get after it on social media just to, you know, just because we're bored, I guess. And that, but it came down, you know, we had a tough fight, you know what I mean? And, yeah, I mean, it was, it was awesome. Like you watch it, we're just,

• 1:47:50Jocko Willink?

  What weight do you fight at?

• 1:47:51JP Dinnell?

  I've fought anywhere between 170 to 205. My first fight,

• 1:47:57Jocko Willink?

  What are you walking around at right now?

• 1:47:58JP Dinnell?

  Uh, 215. Um, not nice. Not a good 215.

• 1:48:03Jocko Willink?

  I try to be gentle over here.

• 1:48:04JP Dinnell?

  No, that's fine. You don't have to, you know, but uh,

• 1:48:07Jocko Willink?

  My fat bastard. You used to walk around like in the, in the, in T-Bruder, you were like 185.

• 1:48:13JP Dinnell?

  No, I, that was my heaviest. Like I couldn't break 185. Like I was trying to like, do like all the bodybuilding list, like get as big as I could. I could never break 185. And then my dad's like, dude, wait until you get your thirties. Like whatever. He's like, oh, okay. Because your body has legitimately done everything. Mine has at every age increment. And then, yeah, get big. But my first fight, I fought at 205, but I only weighed 190. Uh, because I was gonna fight at 185 for my first fight. But, um, that's why I normally don't go by Jeremiah Danelle on like social media because guys started Googling Jeremiah Danelle. You know, I testified against Jesse Ventura with the whole Chris Kyle thing and whatnot. So you Google Jeremiah Danelle,

• 1:48:55JP Dinnell?

  there's a bunch of Navy SEAL stuff out there. And so I changed, that's why I changed my Facebook page to Jeremiah Patrick, just because, you know, fighters would look that up. I'd like, my coaches were like, they didn't want to tell me. And I knew there was something weird with Jake and Zach and my dad. Like, I knew there was something going on. My fighter backed out.

• 1:49:13Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 1:49:13JP Dinnell?

  And then they were trying to find like another fighter. And then he backed out. I think it was like two or three guys. I had sold on my first fight, over a hundred tickets also. Like, I'd, I had people flying in from California, driving out, like, like drive east coast, west coast, Washington, you know, my aunt and uncle were flying out. It's like first amateur fight. This is ridiculous, right? Should have just traveled somewhere where.

• 1:49:36Jocko Willink?

  This better be a good show.

• 1:49:37JP Dinnell?

  Exactly.

• 1:49:38Jocko Willink?

  I flew out from Washington, so.

• 1:49:39JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, exactly. You know, and, um,

• 1:49:44JP Dinnell?

  I remember telling, uh, my buddy Jake, I'm like, dude, I don't care if it's a heavyweight, get me a fight. Like, I can't not fight. You know what I mean? Like, all right, well, fine. So I found some good, he had a, a good amount of, uh, fights already. And like he cut down to 205 and I weighed in with shoot, or flip flops, my cutoff cami shorts, all my stuff in my pockets at 191. And, um, that was awesome. It was good. Good little first fight. Um, got myself way too amped up for it. You know, I should have just gone in.

• 1:50:13Jocko Willink?

  That one's on video, right?

• 1:50:14JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:15Jocko Willink?

  You sent it to me.

• 1:50:15JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I sent you everyone. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I was looking at that fight and I'm like, yes, this is the JP that's extremely amped right now.

• 1:50:25JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. Yeah. Finished him in the second fight, uh, second round, um, TKO, the second fight, finished that guy in the first round. Uh, third fight.

• 1:50:36JP Dinnell?

  Which was hilarious. They had me as the main event on this card for the third fight.

• 1:50:41Jocko Willink?

  That's what you get when you're selling a hundred tickets.

• 1:50:43JP Dinnell?

  I know.

• 1:50:43Jocko Willink?

  You know, like we're the main event.

• 1:50:45JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, that's, yeah, not good for adding just unneeded stress.

• 1:50:49Jocko Willink?

  Well, you have, you know what, you know what? No kidding. Like in watching your, your fights and everything, you do have the, I mean, you have this anyways, but you, you, you have like a level of charisma that makes people want to watch you fight.

• 1:51:02JP Dinnell?

  No.

• 1:51:02Jocko Willink?

  Because you're just fired up and you have a good level of charisma. It's like, you, you know, you're like, I compared you to Conor McGregor jokingly.

• 1:51:09JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:09Jocko Willink?

  But it's reality. If you watch some of your fights, it's like, yeah, I could see in the mid south, people going, I want to go watch Jeremiah D. Now get after it.

• 1:51:17JP Dinnell?

  Punch him in the face.

• 1:51:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:19JP Dinnell?

  Like, dude, you should come watch some fights in the south. It's hilarious.

• 1:51:22Jocko Willink?

  Sell me some tickets, man.

• 1:51:23JP Dinnell?

  I think I can get you a ticket, bro. But, uh, you know, so the fights have been awesome. Uh, my fourth fight, I lost. I actually went into that fight. I had, I was in the hospital or the doctors, in and out of the doctors, almost hospital like the week prior. Uh, I was cutting down to one seventy again also, uh, with hand, foot, mouth disease.

• 1:51:43Jocko Willink?

  Is that, is that your method of cutting weight? Get yourself hand, foot, mouth disease.

• 1:51:47JP Dinnell?

  Dude, I would not recommend it at all. Uh, I had to take this, uh, medicine to numb my mouth and throat just to drink water. So it did help with cutting weight, except for it was horrible. Amanda was legitimately taking care of me, like everything. And she's helped. She preps all my meals. You know, I come home from the gym and she, you know.

• 1:52:07Jocko Willink?

  You went out for, I mean, are you, you think you're going to fight again?

• 1:52:10JP Dinnell?

  Yes.

• 1:52:11Jocko Willink?

  Jack.

• 1:52:11JP Dinnell?

  You know.

• 1:52:12Jocko Willink?

  Jack.

• 1:52:12JP Dinnell?

  Got to heal up. But yeah, it's been good. You know, I've been.

• 1:52:16Jocko Willink?

  I mean, you, and you also had a rough, rough, little rough patch with Amanda, right?

• 1:52:20JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, yeah, we did. Um, you know, I get a little emotional thinking about that sometimes, just. You know, we're so lucky what we have. We got a second chance, you know, we actually full on had a divorce. Moved out, had my own house. You know, she was doing her own thing. I was doing my own thing. And, um, you know, I just came down to a lack of communication. Which when I really look at it and we both look at it and we're both just being selfish. Which like I try to think that's not me. And with Amanda, like that's not her. You talk about somebody who's not selfish.

• 1:53:01JP Dinnell?

  That's her, like to an extent, but we just, I don't know.

• 1:53:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, it's bizarre too. And because you are, I mean, in the teams, you were obviously extremely selfless. And but I see how these things happen for whatever reason. With your, with your team guy bros, it's like, I'll do anything for you. And I've had situations with you where I've been like, hey, I need this right now. And you've been like, I'll be there in three minutes and 30 seconds. And I'm like, okay, cool. You know, and, and. But for some reason, guys don't always, guys and girls both don't always do the best job of translating that selflessness into that relationship at home. So it happens, but I'm glad that you guys were able to kind of.

• 1:53:48JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:48Jocko Willink?

  Look through that, man. That's awesome.

• 1:53:49JP Dinnell?

  Like I said, you know, it was about a year, you know, we're doing our own thing. And, um, yeah, we just kept getting drawn back to each other and it was the kids and. You know, everyone says, oh, my kids are so smart. Dude, our daughters and Aiden are incredibly intelligent. Like, you know, my daughters will be five in January. So this timeframe, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're three, you know? And they know what's going on, you know, and they're trying to be like, hey, you know. You know, my daughter Noel is like, well, you know, daddy, if you and mommy didn't argue so much, maybe we could all live together.

• 1:54:24JP Dinnell?

  And to hear that from your kids, you know, I was just like.

• 1:54:29JP Dinnell?

  It was rough. It was really hard. And you do anything for your kids, you know?

• 1:54:34Jocko Willink?

  So what do you think is the key element that made you go, you know what, jackass idiot? You need to get in the game here and make this work. Like what? And then what method did you use? Where you said, okay, next time that she does this, I'm going to counter instead of attacking or instead of getting defensive, I'm just going to be like, all right.

• 1:54:53JP Dinnell?

  So what made me get back in the game is I still loved her. Like I was just, I'm still, you know, head over heels in love with her. And head over heel in love with my kids. And I didn't want somebody else raising my kids and Aiden, you know, like I would still pick him up and take him to school. You know, even though, you know.

• 1:55:11Jocko Willink?

  Okay. So there's a pretty clear answer. Then what did you have to change? To make it work when you went back, when you, when you said, hey, I'm gonna, in your own mind, what did you do differently? That's made it successful?

• 1:55:25JP Dinnell?

  We put each other first.

• 1:55:26Jocko Willink?

  Boom.

• 1:55:27JP Dinnell?

  And we learned to communicate, you know, and I was sitting in. Amanda, you know, I don't know. We both just had like this come to Jesus with somebody like I can't remember who I was talking to. I don't know who she was talking to. And, you know, she's crafty. She's smart. She knows how to deal with me, right? So she calls and she knows it's my weekend. It's all, obviously she's calling me to talk to the kids and she was like, hey, can I talk to the girls? I'm like, yeah, absolutely. And so I put on a speakerphone. She's like, hey, girls, I love you. Hey, girls, do you want daddy to pick me up for a church? So we can all go together. Dude, I was so pissed. And the chorus, the girl's like, yeah. And she was like, I was like, cool. Hey, outside in five minutes or I'm driving.

• 1:56:10JP Dinnell?

  Still going to keep driving, you know? She's waiting outside in this dress. Looks stunning. Just, I was like, all right. And that was at the beginning, you know, and then we just learned to communicate with each other and we, we put each other first and, you know.

• 1:56:23Jocko Willink?

  Cover and move.

• 1:56:24JP Dinnell?

  Exactly.

• 1:56:25Jocko Willink?

  Maybe a lot of cover and move.

• 1:56:26JP Dinnell?

  There's a lot of cover and move and we legitimately have to put each other first instead of, you know, just doing it as a team. Like my focus and I'm, I don't do this all the time. I'm not trying to act like we have this perfect relationship and everything's phenomenal now, but we legitimately try to put each other first in almost everything that we do to try to take care of each other. And out of all the arguments that we've ever had or anybody else has ever had with their significant other. It was because it was too complicated. Something was complicated and messed up. And so we just had to simplify things.

• 1:56:58Jocko Willink?

  Let's just go ahead to, uh, you know, law combat number two.

• 1:57:02JP Dinnell?

  Exactly.

• 1:57:03Jocko Willink?

  We got one covered.

• 1:57:04JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:04Jocko Willink?

  Cover and move. Keep things simple.

• 1:57:06JP Dinnell?

  Cover move. Keep things simple.

• 1:57:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And I know what you're talking about. You know what that is? That's when you, when you take a look at this argument that you're in and you go, wait a second. What are we arguing about right now? Oh, we're arguing because I put my spaghetti in the microwave before you did. You know what? I'm sorry.

• 1:57:22JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:23Jocko Willink?

  I'll let you have the spaghetti first. Let's simplify. Cause, cause that little thing of who's using the microwave first, all of a sudden spirals into, you know, a major blowout. If you're not careful.

• 1:57:33JP Dinnell?

  It's over something stupid.

• 1:57:34Jocko Willink?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:57:35JP Dinnell?

  And but I mean, she's an alpha female. I'm an alpha male. So of course we're just like, at times we just want to challenge each other, but then we're like, no, this is stupid.

• 1:57:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:45JP Dinnell?

  You know?

• 1:57:45Jocko Willink?

  Hey, I got an idea. Instead of challenging each other, why don't we work together and take over the world?

• 1:57:49JP Dinnell?

  I know. That's our, well, that's our plan right now. And we're doing it. Uh, and then, you know, I mean, and then just legitimately figuring out what was priorities in our life. Like, we just had to be, so we could be on the same page.

• 1:58:03Jocko Willink?

  Echo.

• 1:58:04JP Dinnell?

  Prioritize execute. Exactly. Booyah.

• 1:58:07Jocko Willink?

  Look at that.

• 1:58:07JP Dinnell?

  And, uh, and I was, I've talked to a couple of people, different people about this, you know?

• 1:58:12Jocko Willink?

  You know, you know, it's awesome that you're saying this, cause I've heard a bunch of times from people that have been like, oh, extreme ownership saved our marriage. But I've never, I've always said, cool, thanks. But I've never said like, explain that to me.

• 1:58:23JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:23Jocko Willink?

  But now you're explaining to me.

• 1:58:24JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:25Jocko Willink?

  And I, it, it absolutely does. I mean, I always thought they focused on the ownership part, meaning, oh, don't worry. Hey, I'm going to take ownership of this. I'm going to, uh, uh, I, I made a mistake. Here's what I'm going to do to fix it. I'm sorry. It's my fault.

• 1:58:37JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:38Jocko Willink?

  I always thought that that's just what they were talking about, but you're going ahead and applying other laws of combat to your marriage and making things happen. That's pretty legit.

• 1:58:45JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. I mean, and you know, Amanda's the one that, you know, just recognize a lot of these, these shortfalls that we're having and was just. Communicate it with me and she'd be like, hey, if you're upset with me over something, I probably didn't mean to do that on purpose. So just let me know.

• 1:59:01Jocko Willink?

  That's a good point.

• 1:59:02JP Dinnell?

  And so, yeah.

• 1:59:03Jocko Willink?

  That's a simple.

• 1:59:03JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I know. And so as far as us prioritizing things like we just, you know, and we still, we need to get like an actual full on detailed, detailed game plan for what we're doing. But we realized what was important and what wasn't important. And some of these certain things, like the, the things that truly weren't important, like I don't think twice about it. And she doesn't either. And we just focus on our goals for her business, my business, raising our kids the right way. Trying to be involved in the church as much as possible, trying to give back to others. Like those are our priorities, not the stupid like, well, you said you're coming home at 10, but you stayed out drinking wine with your girlfriend until 11.

• 1:59:44JP Dinnell?

  Who cares? She came home to me, she was relaxing with her girlfriends, what, since I've been gone for three weeks for work. Like she should have stayed out all night and just relaxed. You know what I mean? Like, hey, have a sleepover at your friend's house. You don't have to wake up to the kids three times during the night. That's what I should have done, you know? And she's done the same with me, you know, like there's a couple of times where I'm just like super stressed out or whatever. And she's like, hey, you know, what do we need to do? Like, what do you, what do you need? She's like, you know what? You need to go work out. I'm like, yeah, but we need to go do this right now. And she's like, no, what we need to do is you need to go work out and I can handle this.

• 2:00:19Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome.

• 2:00:19JP Dinnell?

  And it's just been awesome. You know, night and day, like I think about it like, dude, she's such a hard worker, you know, and she runs everything. And then she'll make sure I have a cup of coffee like on the nightstand, like next to me in the morning. So I wake up, you know, and it's just like, you woke up early to go do that? So now like, I'll try to like do stuff for her or whatever. It's, it's just, it's awesome.

• 2:00:41Jocko Willink?

  One upsmanship.

• 2:00:42JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:43Jocko Willink?

  Of, of kind acts.

• 2:00:44JP Dinnell?

  Right?

• 2:00:45Jocko Willink?

  I don't know. I hope my wife doesn't start that game with me. I'll lose.

• 2:00:48JP Dinnell?

  It's, it's hard though with her because she is, she's so thoughtful and crafty, like all of a sudden like, you know, I don't know. She's, it's awesome. So life's been good. You know, it's really turned around. I mean, there's a real dark time. I'm not going to lie. Like there was.

• 2:01:03JP Dinnell?

  The divorce was rough, you know, and there's some other times before that that was real rough. You know, I was, I was drinking a lot, taking painkillers just because I had injuries. But I was like, oh, I have an injury. So I can take this painkiller. Oh, I can take two to three and drink at the same time. I was just trying to numb a lot of stuff that was going on, which is not the path to go.

• 2:01:24Jocko Willink?

  It's not the path.

• 2:01:25JP Dinnell?

  At all. You know, I wouldn't, and we know that. And, uh, you know, one of the things I'm, I mean, there's so many things I appreciate that Amanda helped me through, but I remember when I went to the VA, cause I was having a real hard time sleeping and just, my body's all out of whack. Turns out I had like, my body wasn't producing testosterone anymore. Didn't know that, right? Well, so I didn't know that, but so I go to the VA. Come home with like a bag of like, no kidding, like eight different meds that they wanted me to start taking. And I was like, okay. So I take it first day. I'm like, oh my, like she had to like get me out of bed for me to go to work. Cause I was like a zombie. And it started, and then like the second day, and then that stuff started to become really addicting.

• 2:02:08JP Dinnell?

  Like I wanted that like numb feeling and she was just like, you're not the same person, like quick, like she recognized it. And, uh, we got off, like I was able to, and I wasn't even on that stuff for like a full week and it was so hard for me not to take it. Like she had to straight up like help me detox, like, I'm not saying detox in a bad way, like somebody who's like, but it was bad, you know? And she identified that right away.

• 2:02:34Jocko Willink?

  That's.

• 2:02:34JP Dinnell?

  And it was just like, oh, I know. And it was just like, nope. Like we're flushing this, like this is gone. Like we'll figure something else out. And she's always been the one to, you know, figure something else out and make, make sure we, you know, work as a team on it. So it's been awesome, man. She's amazing.

• 2:02:49Jocko Willink?

  That is awesome. And where does this, where does all this leave you right now? What do you got going on right now?

• 2:02:53JP Dinnell?

  So, um, started my own company called Never Settle Consulting. You know, I did sales and financial company for a while.

• 2:03:01JP Dinnell?

  A lot of good relationships. My sales team was awesome. Uh, but I wanted to do my own thing. Um, I wanted a little more fulfillment. It was taking time away from me being able to do what I wanted to do, to be able to grow and, you know, and spend more time with my family. Um, cause I had a second chance, you know, a second chance with Amanda and with my kids and I, I wanted to do something that fulfilled me that would help us grow, you know? So I started never settle consulting, teaching tactics, combatives and shooting to law enforcement, trying to work out some stuff with some smaller military units and groups and for private civilian groups as well. And able to incorporate leadership and sales team building events into that, you know?

• 2:03:44JP Dinnell?

  Just doing what I love, like what I'm decently good at, you know, as well. And so had a couple of buddies who said, Hey, I need a second instructor for this. You know, so I helped teach a long range shooting course for NRA outdoors and then taught a carbine course for them as well. So it's, it's been good, you know, it has ups and downs, you know? I've worked with a couple of clients that I thought was going to be a long-term thing and it didn't. But hey, it's business, you're out on your own, you learn your lessons and you just keep moving forward. And you know, a lot of people are like, well, why, why never settle? Like they're like, I get it. It's awesome. And I was like, well, I just miss being in the SEAL teams. And I miss being around guys that for the most part legitimately did not settle with average

• 2:04:26JP Dinnell?

  or, you know, a mediocre lifestyle, like you just didn't happen, you know? You're always constantly driving and pushing each other to be better, to be stronger, to be faster, to be smarter, you know? I remember multiple times like you would come in and be like, hey, have you ever heard of this website? I'm like, no, you're like, you need to start reading it every morning. I'm like, okay. So I go in and I'd print off the articles and I'd read them and highlight them. And Chalk later on, he's like, hey, did you hear about this? I'm like, yeah, actually blah, blah, blah. Boom. Yeah. And so, you know, I just miss being around that, you know? And that's not in the, for the most part, you don't find that in civilian life outside, you know, in business. You don't. And I really wanted to be able to have an impact. Like I want to work with veterans that have issues that are going through problems.

• 2:05:10JP Dinnell?

  I want to give back to law enforcement, you know, because they have a hard job, man. And they're underfunded, they're undertrained and I just, I wanted to give back, you know? And I enjoy that. I like doing that stuff. And it gives me freedom to be able to choose, you know, to help out with different projects and help people. And, you know, Amanda's been super supportive and, you know, the, the other logo of never settles, win the fight. No matter what, you just win the fight and it's not a physical thing. It's life is a fight. We all go through our fights. We just have to establish what we want. Like you talk about the commander's intent. Like if you don't have your own commander's intent for you and your family, you're screwed.

• 2:05:52JP Dinnell?

  You're going to wander around and you're just going to waste your life away. And so I just, you know, and then underneath it is in Latin, you know, sign metu is which means without fear. You know, fear is the opposite of faith. Like you read about Mikey, you know?

• 2:06:10JP Dinnell?

  You know, fear, fear is no match for my faith. And I believe that and I want others to believe that. And I don't think a lot of people out there believe that. And if we can paint that message and I would love, you know, for my company to be more of like a lifestyle, you know? And dude, some dude went and got my logo tattooed on his calf. Cause he's like, I want it to be a reminder and he incorporated his kids' names into the tattoo. He's like, dude, it's a daily reminder for me not to settle for average and just get after it. And I'm like, all right, I'm doing something right, hopefully, you know? And so Amanda is super supportive of it, you know, and she's just doing everything to help me out with it. And, you know, she has her business and she still takes the time to help me grow mine. So it's awesome, man, just helping people figure out what they want in life.

• 2:06:53JP Dinnell?

  Like, cause I don't think a lot of people will take the time to establish that. And, um, you know, I think if we can help that and if we can help veterans and if we can help the youth figure out what they want out of life and where they need to go. Then I think, you know, we can actually make an impact in this nation and that's important right now.

• 2:07:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's no doubt about that. And I guess that kind of brings us up to speed for this or up to present day. With, with where JP's at right now. Been a pretty good chunk of time.

• 2:07:31Jocko Willink?

  It's probably about good for tonight and obviously.

• 2:07:36Jocko Willink?

  Thanks for coming on the podcast. I mean, one of the, one of the best things for me about this podcast is that there's heroes like you that people don't know about. And there's heroes from the past that people don't know about. And being able to bring heroes like yourself and heroes from the past to the present time and let people know and introduce that there's warriors in the past you need to know about, and there's warriors walking with us today that you need to know about. And that's one of my favorite things about the podcast is having the opportunity to do that. And if, if you like listening to this podcast, well, guess what? I believe Echo Charles can tell you how to support the podcast.

• 2:08:20Speaker 02

  I have a question.

• 2:08:21Jocko Willink?

  Oh, man, here we go. Hot seat.

• 2:08:23JP Dinnell?

  Why, why you gonna flank me like that?

• 2:08:25Speaker 02

  Yep. I remember, um, actually, dude, the day I met you a long time ago before I actually knew you real good.

• 2:08:36Jocko Willink?

  You know me real good now, is that the deal?

• 2:08:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:38Jocko Willink?

  Oh dang.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  But like you, you always, and actually listening to you now, like you kinda, I kinda realized like you live in the moment a lot. Yeah.

• 2:08:47Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 2:08:47Speaker 02

  Like, I remember we were sitting at this, when we had sushi that night, the first time I met you, like, when was that? Like, oh, seven or something.

• 2:08:54Jocko Willink?

  Two thousand seven.

• 2:08:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I remember you and you had another guy with you. I forget.

• 2:08:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, my buddy, uh, Kurt.

• 2:09:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I remember, um, we're all talking, but you know, everyone's talking. And I hear you kind of on the side, you're like, like, this is good, man, you know? Eating sushi with good people, you know, we're, we're doing something, you know, kinda like you're totally, it's like you're explaining to him, but you're explaining to yourself, like, what, what am I experiencing right now? And how good is this? How cool is this? You know, almost like you had this stuff coming up and you're, but you're living in that moment. Just like, just like with the stories with, um, like, you mentioned, like, the, and you saw the ambient light coming down. This is awesome. This is awesome. Why, like, why is that, do you think? Or, I mean, is there a specific reason, do you think? Because a lot of people not like that. You know how like they'll be like, oh, we're about to do this. I'm excited or that thing happened and that's that's whack or whatever. And they don't really, you know what I mean?

• 2:09:47JP Dinnell?

  I've always been like that. You know, my parents taught us just enjoy what you have. You know, it doesn't have to be material stuff. Just enjoy the life that you have. And I've also always realized that people have it a lot worse. And then after two deployments, you know, because I met you after my second deployment. Like I'd seen the worst. I'd seen evil firsthand. I'd seen actual oppression, not what some of these idiots are talking about right now, you know? I'd seen, you know, kids with underwear on and sandals in the streets and that's all they had. And I've seen, you know, women holding their kids crying, you know? I've seen guys use kids as human shields because they're cowards.

• 2:10:32JP Dinnell?

  And I'm getting to sit and enjoy sushi in San Diego, California with my best friend Curtis from high school. And a new group of guys that I met, you know, through other team guys. And I'm like, man, life is good.

• 2:10:47Speaker 02

  We were with the Cake Nuts, by the way.

• 2:10:49JP Dinnell?

  Oh, Cake Nuts makes another appearance.

• 2:10:53JP Dinnell?

  Solid dude. I think he tried to rip a tree out of the ground once, right?

• 2:10:58Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 2:10:58JP Dinnell?

  No, he did. Someone convinced him that he could, he couldn't pull a tree out of the ground, so he tried.

• 2:11:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, Jeremy probably tried to convince him that.

• 2:11:06JP Dinnell?

  I think you're right on that.

• 2:11:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:09Speaker 02

  Also, second thing, what um, did they find out why you you you had like, you weren't producing?

• 2:11:14JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, um, just the pituitary gland, um, the sacrum, my pituitary gland was damaged and destroyed pretty bad.

• 2:11:21Speaker 02

  From the, from the blast or something or?

• 2:11:23JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, from, from that blast and just multiple other like explosions and blasts overseas. I mean, we use breaching charges to open up doors. You know, where you're in a gunfight and the machine gun is legitimately going off right next to your head. That's providing like cushion that there's times after gunfights, like I felt like I was just drunk.

• 2:11:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:40JP Dinnell?

  I felt like I was drunk just because I was just out of it. And so just that much and then just combat sports and other stuff like that. And so, um, you know, when Amanda finally got me to go to the VA to get my, my levels tested. You know, a normal male, we're supposed to be between six hundred to nine hundred. Uh, I was eighty one. Yeah, it was bad. And they were just like, how like they called, I didn't answer my phone because I was at work and I was on the online or something like that. And they called Amanda like he needs to come back in right away. So of course they freaked my wife out, right? She thinks I'm dying or something like that. Like, and then so I go and they get it retested again. It was eighty seven. And they're like, are you on steroids right now? I'm like, look at me.

• 2:12:23JP Dinnell?

  Look like I'm on steroids. Now, granted, like when I was younger, you know, I'd taken some real strong supplements from like Max Muscle and different places like that that had them available. And I'm sure that might have had an effect, but you know, I don't know. I mean, I know, like, I try to like, get, you know, so own up to some of the mistakes, you know, because Jocko used to joke, he's like JP just wants to be two hundred and five pounds walking around.

• 2:12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, nothing wrong with that.

• 2:12:48JP Dinnell?

  Well, now I wish I could get down to two.

• 2:12:51JP Dinnell?

  But you know, so yeah, my levels were really messed up. And they're like, how do you even get out of bed? How do you do this and this? I'm like, um, well, I have a family I have to provide for. I really don't have another option. So just gotta get out there and get after it.

• 2:13:04Speaker 02

  We call that BTF.

• 2:13:05JP Dinnell?

  Just BTFing throughout the day.

• 2:13:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's crazy. And that's another part, remember how we talked about where that's the part that you don't really hear that much about, just those little detail, like you say, in a gunfight, if the machine gun is right here and it hits you, kind of like someone's hitting you physically, you know?

• 2:13:21Jocko Willink?

  No, it's, it's a shock to your system.

• 2:13:24JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, I mean, I've been, I was actually going through some videos and I'll try to get you guys some of these. The other day where I'm laying down on the sniper rifle and we're in a big firefight. And they come and straddle over me to start firing off rockets. And I'm getting that blast coming down, just crushing me, you know, and then Mikey, you know, right next to me, the A W gun, he's like, ah, I'm just like, oh my goodness, I'm like, need coloring crayons for Christmas next year or something like.

• 2:13:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. By the way, when you fire a rocket in training, you put on two levels of ear protection.

• 2:13:58JP Dinnell?

  I had none. You don't, you don't need ear pro in combat. Your ears naturally squeeze. It's pretty awesome.

• 2:14:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I remember um, one of my friends who went through sniper school too. He'd talk about the, um, I think it was like the fifty cal.

• 2:14:17JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:18Speaker 02

  Fifty cal. He's like, bro, that thing is like, just shooting it is like you're getting punched in the face.

• 2:14:22JP Dinnell?

  Oh, it is.

• 2:14:23Speaker 02

  Just shooting it.

• 2:14:23JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, well, I mean, considering we mount those to the tops of Hummers.

• 2:14:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:27JP Dinnell?

  And if you don't have your foot on the brake and it's in park, it'll move the vehicle. And even that, you see a vehicle going, like just moving like. And, you know, I was also a lead driver, so there's times where the machine, like fifty cal is right over us in the front, like the barrels like sticking out and you're getting a blast, you're like. Oh, I mean, it's just, but it's part of it, you know what I mean? Like, I would not change any of that.

• 2:14:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's crazy how like those detail, like to, to someone who hasn't been, that's kind of a big deal. Cause you watch movies and the guy shooting and the guy's reaching across the guy, shooting the guy in the street corner and all this stuff. And then if you know those details, you're like, whoa, whoa, you, you skipped over this whole big kind of element of this situation.

• 2:15:08JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, yeah, and I just so much respect, you know, guys that are still in the teams, you know, I just did under twelve years in the Navy. I didn't, I didn't do my full time. You look at these guys that do twenty, twenty-two, twenty-five years. Like, I'm just like, dude, hats off to those guys, you know, and like the guys that are still, it's the same guys that I deployed with, you know, it's weird me talking about it. Like I did anything special, like as a team, we did something special.

• 2:15:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:34JP Dinnell?

  And those guys are still in the fight, you know, they're still deploying, they're still doing workups. You know, they're battling divorces, they're, you know, dealing with new babies being born and, you know, taking care of their wives and, you know, family and it's just like. Just so much respect to those guys and, and you know, you look at all the other branches that we served with. And when those guys just, dude, eighteen month deployments.

• 2:15:55Jocko Willink?

  Eighteen month deployments.

• 2:15:57JP Dinnell?

  Oh, hey.

• 2:15:57Jocko Willink?

  Fifteen month deployments.

• 2:15:58JP Dinnell?

  You get to go home for two weeks halfway through.

• 2:16:00Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 2:16:00JP Dinnell?

  Guys are going home to like their families moved out.

• 2:16:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:03JP Dinnell?

  Like gone, like have no idea.

• 2:16:05Jocko Willink?

  But.

• 2:16:05JP Dinnell?

  I mean, you know, you hear that, you, I mean, a couple of guys came home and they came back and from on leave and I was like, hey, how was it? It's like, oh, my wife and kids are gone. I don't know where any of my stuff is. I'm like.

• 2:16:17Jocko Willink?

  So jacked up.

• 2:16:19JP Dinnell?

  Do you want a hug? I don't know what to do.

• 2:16:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's, it is, you know, JP and I were talking about that earlier, like.

• 2:16:30Jocko Willink?

  We're visible. Well, I'm definitely visible and I was telling JP like you will now be visible, more visible. I mean, he's, he's been maintained a pretty low profile.

• 2:16:39JP Dinnell?

  Tried to.

• 2:16:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, because if you're fighting has a little bit of profile, but um, like, you know, you're going to be more visible. And when you get visible, people automatically think that you're special in some way. And like, I'm telling you, there's nothing special here. Definitely not for me because you know, like, like, I did 20 years in the Navy, but okay, great. There's guys that do 30 years, there's guys that do 14 different deployments. There's guys that, you know, get wounded and then you, like JP just said, you branch that out to all the services and you know, I'm another guy and, and we're just other guys where we have a little bit of a, of a higher profile, but that's not due to our, you know, anything special that

• 2:17:23Jocko Willink?

  we did, just, just with the way things shook out at the end. So I always want to make that clear.

• 2:17:28JP Dinnell?

  And, and like law enforcement, they're doing it every day. Like my uncle, I was telling you about like every day. Now we do a workup and then we just go get after it for six months and come home to work up, go get after it. But he's like legitimately getting after it every day for 15 plus years and you're like.

• 2:17:44Jocko Willink?

  It's a 23 year deployment.

• 2:17:46JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:46Jocko Willink?

  To a combat zone.

• 2:17:47JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. With limited resources, limited support.

• 2:17:51Jocko Willink?

  Limited training.

• 2:17:52JP Dinnell?

  Limited training and.

• 2:17:54Jocko Willink?

  And, and a hostile environment on both the criminal side and actually oftentimes on the civil side of people that are, you know, lashing out at, at police officers.

• 2:18:06Jocko Willink?

  From that whole other angle now. So.

• 2:18:09JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. Unfortunate.

• 2:18:12Jocko Willink?

  You done with your questions, Mr. Charles?

• 2:18:14Speaker 02

  Uh, for now, yeah.

• 2:18:17Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:18:18Speaker 02

  But I, I do have good news though.

• 2:18:20Jocko Willink?

  You do?

• 2:18:21Speaker 02

  My krill oil came in.

• 2:18:22Jocko Willink?

  Oh, got that krill oil.

• 2:18:23Speaker 02

  Right. That's good news.

• 2:18:24Jocko Willink?

  That is good news. We are happy about that.

• 2:18:26Speaker 02

  You, uh, you take krill oil?

• 2:18:28JP Dinnell?

  I take shark cartilage.

• 2:18:30Speaker 02

  Shark cartilage. Is that the same thing?

• 2:18:32Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:18:33Speaker 02

  No, that's like what glucose?

• 2:18:34JP Dinnell?

  No, it's good for your joints. My, my dad got me on it, but I'll, I'll get on what you guys have. I'll give it a run.

• 2:18:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you do or when you do on it. It's the best one.

• 2:18:45Jocko Willink?

  Okay, well.

• 2:18:46Speaker 02

  Is that the best one?

• 2:18:47Jocko Willink?

  It's the best one.

• 2:18:48Speaker 02

  Straight up the best one. Everyone knows that.

• 2:18:50Jocko Willink?

  Or more people know. How do I get it? Where do I go?

• 2:18:54Speaker 02

  You go to onit.com. But if you're down to support the podcast.

• 2:18:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:59Speaker 02

  Which I know you are because you're here.

• 2:19:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:01Speaker 02

  Go onit.com/jocko. And support your wallet 10% off.

• 2:19:06Jocko Willink?

  Dude, savings and the best. Boom. Get some.

• 2:19:10Speaker 02

  Someone asked me, uh, this was not yesterday, before. Like, they're like, hey, I know, I know, you know, you guys are done with on it and all that stuff. But is that the only supplements you take for real? I was like, yeah, that is.

• 2:19:25Speaker 02

  Krill oil, Alpha Brain sometimes, Shroom Tech.

• 2:19:29Speaker 02

  Worry bars too, but I don't know if that's a supplement.

• 2:19:31Jocko Willink?

  Dude, those are so good. It definitely supplements your, your, your. Your need food intake.

• 2:19:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, big time.

• 2:19:39Jocko Willink?

  Tasty.

• 2:19:39Speaker 02

  But yeah, you can support that way if you're in the mood to also the Amazon. If you, this kind of, I was trying to analyze the whole Amazon thing. Like, how, how does that kind of fit in the whole? I mean, we kind of know how, but okay. So you click through when you do your shopping on Amazon, you click through before you do your shopping. Through the website, jockopodcast.com or jockostore.com. So boom, you support that way. But so how does this fit in, right? So it's kind of like, okay, we're here putting out this message, right? And people who like click through or they buy shirts or something like that. They're kind of like the backup, kind of like the reinforcement, you know?

• 2:20:16Jocko Willink?

  They're actually the full on supporting mechanism, never mind the backup.

• 2:20:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, so okay.

• 2:20:20Jocko Willink?

  They're on the field. They're on the battlefield with us.

• 2:20:22Speaker 02

  Backup is, that's a bad one. That's like, they're like the reinforcement, you know?

• 2:20:26Jocko Willink?

  They're the full on support mechanism.

• 2:20:28Speaker 02

  Enforcement.

• 2:20:29Jocko Willink?

  Yes, the enforcement. Yes, very good, very good.

• 2:20:32Speaker 02

  Um, and yeah, man, so, so the Amazon click through, that's a good one. Good way to support this podcast. And of course subscribe, right?

• 2:20:41Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 2:20:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I used it.

• 2:20:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you did use it. So I should, I'm getting asked this a lot, right? And I'm not, I'm just gonna lay it out there. So Podcast Chibohá, where does that come from? It's a really quick story. Here's where it comes from. There's a guy whose name is Henatch Laranja.

• 2:20:59Speaker 02

  Henato Laranja, just for clarity.

• 2:21:02Jocko Willink?

  Okay, for clarity. But those of us that speak with a fake Portuguese accent from time to time would just say Henatch.

• 2:21:09Speaker 02

  Right, right. Yeah, that's the real.

• 2:21:10Jocko Willink?

  So anyways, um, there's a, a video production company called Flixpoint Videos, which is, which is Echo Charles's company. And they did a series that starred this Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu master,

• 2:21:26Jocko Willink?

  Henatch Laranja. And my son actually was very into the Henatch program. And there, in, in being into the program, he started to adapt his own fake Brazilian Portuguese accent. And since he speaks no Portuguese whatsoever, he just simply does the, the pigeon of it. And, and he adds words or, or parts to words that he thinks in his mind, sound like they might be Portuguese. So one day, he said to me, in a broken, imitated, fake Portuguese accent, he said,

• 2:22:09Jocko Willink?

  "Dad, are you going to record that Podcast Chibohá?"

• 2:22:16Jocko Willink?

  And I said, "Yes, I am." And then that is where it came from. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have any spelling. It's just my 13-year-old son with his comedic vibe going on.

• 2:22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he, and...

• 2:22:34Speaker 02

  So but he where he how he got that from or what he got that from is podcast G that's like the just podcast that's podcast and then poja and boa this two things right right poja is like poja is like this expression it's like it means something specific but it's it's ultimately it's an expression

• 2:22:51Jocko Willink?

  But ultimately let's be clear here it's also a very bad word

• 2:22:54Speaker 02

  Yes, yes

• 2:22:55Jocko Willink?

  It's it's like the worst swear word

• 2:22:57Speaker 02

  I don't think it's the worst

• 2:22:58Jocko Willink?

  It's a very bad swear word

• 2:22:59Speaker 02

  Yeah

• 2:23:00Jocko Willink?

  In Portuguese

• 2:23:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's poja

• 2:23:02Jocko Willink?

  Poja

• 2:23:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like slang it's it's a mix yeah so there's that then there's boa which means good

• 2:23:08Jocko Willink?

  Boa means good, right?

• 2:23:09Speaker 02

  Exactly, so you know your son's thing I don't know if it was poja or boa I'm assuming poja because Henato says poja all the time

• 2:23:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah

• 2:23:18Speaker 02

  So that's what he did

• 2:23:20Jocko Willink?

  From time to time

• 2:23:20Speaker 02

  Yeah

• 2:23:21Jocko Willink?

  And my son when he says it is podcast G boa

• 2:23:25Speaker 02

  Yeah

• 2:23:25Jocko Willink?

  So I'm not a hundred percent sure but that's where it came from

• 2:23:28Speaker 02

  Yep

• 2:23:28Jocko Willink?

  When we gonna listen to that podcast G boa right here?

• 2:23:31Speaker 02

  Yeah

• 2:23:32Jocko Willink?

  That's what we're gonna do

• 2:23:33JP Dinnell?

  It's crazy what our kids say

• 2:23:35Jocko Willink?

  Yes, indeed

• 2:23:37Speaker 02

  And still when you think of it that's still kind of a an ambiguous explanation really so where does that leave us you know like okay so what does it mean?

• 2:23:45Jocko Willink?

  The thing is is meaningless although I guess it does mean that we're talking about this particular

• 2:23:51Speaker 02

  Hmm

• 2:23:52Jocko Willink?

  Podcast G boa

• 2:23:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we're excited about it

• 2:23:54Jocko Willink?

  Yes, we are

• 2:23:55Speaker 02

  There it is, boom So back to the support thing um you know subscribe if you haven't already that's a good way to stay in the game you know when the new one comes out it just boom on your phone listen ready

• 2:24:09JP Dinnell?

  I know I am

• 2:24:10Speaker 02

  You know, me too and you know I'm on it YouTube channel video coming out I think I'm gonna do a more of a comedy video see how that goes over

• 2:24:20Jocko Willink?

  Well, it won't go over well with me, obviously

• 2:24:25Jocko Willink?

  Hey, we've got the, the, the heavy podcast and everybody loves it and let's get after it and let's crush people and let's do the darkness and you're gonna do a comedy video? Is that where we're going with this?

• 2:24:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:34Jocko Willink?

  Alright.

• 2:24:35Speaker 02

  Just to see how it goes over.

• 2:24:36Jocko Willink?

  We'll trust that judgment, I guess.

• 2:24:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'll let the troopers decide on that one.

• 2:24:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:42Speaker 02

  Also, Jocko Store, that's where, uh, you know, we slang these shirts. But it's less about selling shirts, it's more about, hey, if you wanna support the podcast, you wanna wear a cool shirt with multiple layers, by the way. I talk about the layers, but let's just say, I don't wanna go into a big thing about the layers.

• 2:24:58Jocko Willink?

  Please don't.

• 2:24:59Speaker 02

  But, there's more to it than just the saying, you know, discipline equals freedom. What does that even mean? It sounds cool, what does that mean? Anyway, there's a meaning, darkness, there's a meaning, and, um, all the shirts have, have a cool meaning.

• 2:25:11Jocko Willink?

  What's the meaning behind that t-shirt that says, the one that you're wearing with that just says Jocko Podcast? That's just the meaning?

• 2:25:17Speaker 02

  Well, if you look on the back, you can see the meaning.

• 2:25:19Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 2:25:20Speaker 02

  There you go, see?

• 2:25:21Jocko Willink?

  Where are you gonna find it?

• 2:25:22Speaker 02

  That's the layers I'm talking about, yep. Anyway, women's stuff coming out, tank tops are already out, but the women's t-shirts are coming out as well. Just kinda give all the girls, or the women, and a small update. Some girls with some women were at the muster.

• 2:25:37Jocko Willink?

  They certainly were.

• 2:25:37Speaker 02

  Asking about some stuff, I told them.

• 2:25:39Jocko Willink?

  In force.

• 2:25:40Speaker 02

  Yep, they're enforcing.

• 2:25:41Jocko Willink?

  In force.

• 2:25:42Speaker 02

  Um, got some new patches, the two, the three by two, that, so they're, they can fit on the, you know, the standard Velcro situation. And I think, and there's like a tan color, right? It's like the official kinda color that sometimes you can't.

• 2:25:55Jocko Willink?

  For the troopers that are going out into the desert.

• 2:25:58JP Dinnell?

  I believe that's FDE, Federal Dark Earth.

• 2:26:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:04Speaker 02

  Good, cuz I was trying to Google that and find out, and there's a bunch of them.

• 2:26:08JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, FDE.

• 2:26:08Jocko Willink?

  FDE, I got the new Sig 320 in, so sick. And of course, I had to get one for Amanda. So each have Sig 320 compact FDE.

• 2:26:19Speaker 02

  FDE.

• 2:26:20Jocko Willink?

  Nice.

• 2:26:21JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:22Speaker 02

  Actually, that was, that's coincidentally really helpful, I was looking for a long time for that.

• 2:26:25Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. Yeah.

• 2:26:28Speaker 02

  Uh, rash guards are good too. Uh, look at multiple layers. Like I said, just trust me on that. And that, those are the ways to support if you're in the

• 2:26:37Jocko Willink?

  You can also support the podcast by buying some Jocko White tea.

• 2:26:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:26:42Jocko Willink?

  If you want to just improve every single aspect of your life.

• 2:26:49Jocko Willink?

  Uh, no, if you, if you want to get some tea, you can get it. If you don't think you like tea, you probably will like this tea because even though it's technically tea, it doesn't actually even taste like tea. It, it, it, it tastes like a nectar that you need to try. I can't explain it.

• 2:27:06Speaker 02

  I agree with that. I had it last couple of days.

• 2:27:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:10Speaker 02

  At the muster and man, that was awesome.

• 2:27:13Jocko Willink?

  It's tasty. And plus, as we know from the Amazon

• 2:27:19Jocko Willink?

  reviews, it, it, it is added. There's a guy who deadlifted went from 400 pounds to 8,000 pounds. So that's a 7,600 pound increase.

• 2:27:31Speaker 02

  Legit case study.

• 2:27:32Jocko Willink?

  In your, in your, in your deadlift. And so that's right there. Again, that's good to go. So get yourself some, some Amazon tea. Also, when you're on Amazon, you can pick up, you can get yourself a copy of a book called Extreme Ownership that I wrote with my brother Leif Babin. And the thing is, if you have a copy, that's cool. Get a couple more. You want to have them on standby. Because sometimes you're just, you're just dealing with someone at work and all of a sudden you realize that they're not taking ownership of something. It's no problem. You're not, you're not stressing out. You just reach in your desk, you grab a coffee, you go, hey, why don't you take a quick look at this right here? Up the chain of command, down the chain of command. Now, when you do that, now you're going to make their life better.

• 2:28:15Jocko Willink?

  Cause they're going to be able to figure some stuff out. You're also making your life easier because now your surrounding personnel are in the game.

• 2:28:24Speaker 02

  And. You're taking extreme ownership in and of it to that action because remember, you know how like a lot of people, that's the question.

• 2:28:31Jocko Willink?

  That is deep.

• 2:28:32Speaker 02

  No, because that's the question. People out there be like, hey, what do I do when my colleague is not taking extreme ownership? Be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. See, the just the the mere nature of you saying, hey, you're not taking extreme ownership. That's you not taking extreme ownership.

• 2:28:45Jocko Willink?

  So you own that.

• 2:28:46Speaker 02

  You're only you're saying, hey, I recognize this situation of you doing and not doing certain things. Let me take action. What can I do to take extreme ownership over this situation? But it's true.

• 2:28:57Jocko Willink?

  That is true. That is true. Also, you know, as you are on Amazon, just just nod your head a little bit and say thanks to Brady Lander, Brady Trooper, who has been the backside support to the podcast Yaboha with all kinds of stuff. So shout out to Brady for getting after it. Technically, he's getting after it technically.

• 2:29:23Speaker 02

  Technically, yeah. Technically.

• 2:29:26Jocko Willink?

  Now, you just talked about the muster too. We just had the muster in San Diego, California. It was freaking awesome.

• 2:29:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:29:32Jocko Willink?

  It was. It was really cool. We had a bunch of people there. The the guy that helped run the event named Matt. Um, he's been running events for 20 something years and he and he came up to me two hours into the event. You know, this is after people were PTing at 4:45 in the morning. This is after everyone was in their seats at 0800, ready, standing by to get after it. No stragglers. Like, like when I say no stragglers, I mean, no stragglers, zero. 350 people, boom, in their seats, ready to rock and roll. He came up to me during the first little break and he says, I I've actually never seen anything like this where an entire conference is so just on board in the game and getting after. He said, never seen this in any kind of conference. So.

• 2:30:18Speaker 02

  Major problem and it can't come down.

• 2:30:23Speaker 02

  The schedule says, hey, echo film some stuff, right? That's kind of the loose order.

• 2:30:29Jocko Willink?

  Commanders in.

• 2:30:29Speaker 02

  And look at the schedule. Hey, for optional, optional four forty five workout AM. Okay, I'm be honest, I'm not used to the four forty five AM. It's cool. Don't get it wrong, but I'm not just not used to four forty five filming.

• 2:30:43Jocko Willink?

  Working.

• 2:30:43Speaker 02

  Workouts, whatever.

• 2:30:44Jocko Willink?

  Being awake.

• 2:30:45Speaker 02

  So I'm like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna go, I'm gonna show up on time, I'm gonna show up ahead of time. But really though, optional, really first day, let's face it. How many people are really gonna be at this thing?

• 2:30:55Jocko Willink?

  Maybe twenty five, thirty?

• 2:30:57Speaker 02

  I'm thinking ten.

• 2:30:58Jocko Willink?

  And people are traveling.

• 2:30:58Speaker 02

  To twenty, you know what I mean?

• 2:31:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we had guys from the UK, you know, five different countries were represented, forty two different states, like it was insane. So people are all over.

• 2:31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's issues.

• 2:31:10Jocko Willink?

  There's no way. I was like, I was even, I'm not a morning person like you. Like, I'm usually a guy that's up until two or three working on stuff.

• 2:31:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:18Jocko Willink?

  So I was like, I gotta get up. I was like, dude, I'm here with Jock and Leif and Echo. I've gotta get after it. I was like, I'm gonna be pissed that there's like five people out there.

• 2:31:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm thinking ten, twenty would be solid. But I pull around, I'm ahead of time, by the way. I'm pulling up at like four twenty eight, you know, four twenty nine. I come around the corner and I see a straight up riot, like not rioting, but like the type of crowd that's like in a protest or something. Guys stretching, you know, I'm like dang. So I go a park like on the side, I come and you guys already had worked out already.

• 2:31:52Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so what, what Leif and I did, yeah, what Leif and I did was we went, I said, hey, Leif, we might get, contingency is, there's a hundred and fifty people. We're not gonna be able to direct this thing if we're doing it. We need to get in leadership position. So we need to go work out before the zero four forty five muster workout. We need to go work out before that.

• 2:32:12Speaker 02

  Optional, by the way.

• 2:32:13Jocko Willink?

  So we went and hit it before. And it's a, it was a pretty hardcore workout. It was one of those workouts where it can suck as much as you want it to suck. And of course, we want it to suck bad. So we were dripping with sweat. We come walking over and it's the same thing for us. We are walking back from the workout area, which was down by the San Diego Convention Center. We're walking back to the hotel. We're in a little jog. We turn the corner. Now we're really close. So we start walking. And we see the same thing. We see like all these people and, and it was, you know, 250 or 300 people are ready to rock and roll at four. It's, it's only four 28, right?

• 2:32:49JP Dinnell?

  Sun's not even up. It's nighttime.

• 2:32:51Jocko Willink?

  The sun's not even thinking about coming up. It's straight up nighttime. So we got after it and that was a good representation of the attitude that was at the muster. And the other funny thing was people kept, when people would ask questions, they'd say, oh, I just got promoted in this new position and this is going on. And then someone would also say, you know, I just got promoted three times in the last six months and I want to know. And so you're thinking, okay, all these people are just fast tracked. They're in the game. They're on it. It's just, uh, it was, it was really an awesome event. Great job with the, uh, the video. Echo Charles made some, some really killer videos for that. And it was awesome.

• 2:33:31JP Dinnell?

  Those videos were awesome, like very captivating. You know, me sitting there in the crowd.

• 2:33:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:36JP Dinnell?

  It was just like, there was a couple of times I had to get up and the first day I stood in the back or sat in the back and I had to get up and I'd pace. Cause I was just like so connected. It just brought me back, you know, or just emotional connection. And then, you know, everyone else did the same thing. And the second day I'm sitting up in the front row and I was like, I can't stand up and pace right now, but just everyone, you just watching other people and it's just, dude, great job. Those videos were insane, man.

• 2:33:59Speaker 02

  You were in one of those.

• 2:34:00JP Dinnell?

  I know. I had the, uh, I had the, the doctor's mask on so nobody recognized.

• 2:34:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:07JP Dinnell?

  That's right. Somebody asked me about it. They're like, um, pretty blonde and the guy holding twins babies. I'm like, yeah.

• 2:34:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's the rough transition video.

• 2:34:17JP Dinnell?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So the rough transition, transition video that Echo made is, um, the, the person holding the baby.

• 2:34:24JP Dinnell?

  The babies.

• 2:34:24Jocko Willink?

  The babies.

• 2:34:25Speaker 02

  Twins, yeah.

• 2:34:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. That's, that's JP right there. So there's a little layer right there, isn't there? Now that's what you're talking about.

• 2:34:32JP Dinnell?

  Yeah. The, if you're, if you're kind of on the inside, you're going to see them and you're going to recognize them. That's the guy, I think the fun part, one of the many fun parts.

• 2:34:40Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. And a also, so if you like what we're talking about here and you want to continue, maybe you didn't get enough of this today. You want to keep talking to us, you can actually just find us cruising, cruising hard, apparently on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram, and you know, we even on that Facebook. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. And Jeremiah JP Danelle is at, where are you at?

• 2:35:17JP Dinnell?

  On Twitter JP or at JP Danelle. Instagram would be Never Settle Consulting and Facebook page Never Settle Consulting LLC. So if you like the page, able to put out any upcoming events or anything that's going on, just try to connect with people through social media.

• 2:35:37Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. Dig it. Echo, any final thoughts from you?

• 2:35:42Speaker 02

  I don't really good to see you again, man. I mean, we've kept in touch online and stuff with school, but Ben, yeah, really good to see you again.

• 2:35:48JP Dinnell?

  Awesome. Oh, if you go to never settle consulting.com, that'll be up in the near future as well. But you can contact me through the social media, but the website will be up and running soon. But yeah, but yeah, it's great seeing you again, bro. Like coming out here. I was like, you know, just, you know, I got the call from Jocko and I, you know, turned down a couple of different gigs or, you know, switched some work around. I was like, I gotta get out of here. You know, and Amanda was like, yeah, yeah, don't be an idiot. You're going, you know, we'll find a way. And it was awesome. You know, able to work it out and be on the podcast. You know, I just appreciate you guys having me out here, man.

• 2:36:23Jocko Willink?

  Of course, man. You got any final thoughts?

• 2:36:26JP Dinnell?

  Yeah, obviously. I just want to thank all the troops overseas, all the troops that are home, the family members of the troops that never made it back. We appreciate you guys. All the law enforcement officers out there, firefighters, medics, you guys are getting after it, serving your community every day. And of course, I want to thank Amanda just for her continued support and love and my kids, you know, love those kids. Look forward to the day where they're old enough where they can actually listen and process this. So Aiden, Cora and all, I love you guys. And yeah, it's awesome.

• 2:37:04Jocko Willink?

  Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Obviously. Thank you. And thanks for everything you've ever done for me, brother. I appreciate that. Above and beyond anything I could have ever hoped for the kind of performance and the kind of the kind of attitude and the bravery and the courage. Always. Thank you. Thank you. Always. Thank you.

• 2:37:32Jocko Willink?

  And you know, the other day when we were at the muster, we were in that big crowd and we had kinda, we kinda turned the corner and we were getting to the area where we were gonna start the workout thing. And I knew, I assessed real quick and I said, I'm gonna need some help getting some organization stuff going on here. And we really didn't have a plan for 300 people, right? We had a plan for 30 or 40 people. Way different. And so I'm sitting there and I'm going into, okay, what am I gonna do? Gotta prioritize and execute. I need some help. And it's just dark, you know, dark four o'clock in the morning. So I just yell out, I go JP. And instantly I hear some distance away, I hear, yes, sir.

• 2:38:14Jocko Willink?

  And I look up where that came from and I see JP and he like made quick eye contact when I see him moving, you know, down the stairs, he's coming to me. And in that split second, that split second, I remembered all the times that I had called your name. And I had asked you to do what needed to be done. And you always stepped up without question, without, without regard for your safety or for your own security. You always stepped up just with your, the mission and the team and your brothers in mind.

• 2:38:55Jocko Willink?

  Always putting others before yourself.

• 2:39:00Jocko Willink?

  Like so many others in our task unit did.

• 2:39:06Jocko Willink?

  Like Mark and Mikey and Ryan.

• 2:39:13Jocko Willink?

  And like the many soldiers and Marines did in the Battle Ramadi, and in the rest of Iraq, and in Afghanistan,

• 2:39:23Jocko Willink?

  and on battlefields all over the world,

• 2:39:28Jocko Willink?

  throughout history,

• 2:39:31Jocko Willink?

  putting others before themselves,

• 2:39:37Jocko Willink?

  with their heads held high.

• 2:39:46Jocko Willink?

  And to everyone else

• 2:39:49Jocko Willink?

  that is out there listening,

• 2:39:53Jocko Willink?

  think about that.

• 2:39:57Jocko Willink?

  Think about putting the mission

• 2:40:01Jocko Willink?

  before your own needs.

• 2:40:05Jocko Willink?

  Think about putting others before yourself.

• 2:40:12Jocko Willink?

  And think about

• 2:40:15Jocko Willink?

  walking through the world.

• 2:40:19Jocko Willink?

  With all the threats and challenges in front of you, think about walking through the daily battles that you face with your back straight

• 2:40:32Jocko Willink?

  and your head held high.

• 2:40:38Jocko Willink?

  Facing the threat.

• 2:40:41Jocko Willink?

  Facing the fear. Scanning for what is next, so you can engage

• 2:40:51Jocko Willink?

  and get after it.

• 2:40:55Jocko Willink?

  So, until next time, this is Echo and Jocko and my brother JP Dinnell.

• 2:41:07Jocko Willink?

  Out.