120: How to Maintain Improvement Over Time. Healthy Competition. Too Proud to Ask for Help. Comfort Zones.

0:00:00 - Opening 0:00:18 - Uncomfortably cold VS Dangerously Cold. 0:10:32 - Asking for help when you need it. 0:19:17 - Martial Arts Competition as a way to prep for Real physical confrontation. 0:41:23 - Staying in your comfort zone and not even realizing it. 0:53:26 - How to implement Extreme Ownership to others when they don't like Jocko. 1:02:21 - How working harder for an imcompetent superior will help you. 1:11:02 - Can you be default:aggressive and relaxed at the same time? 1:20:10 - How do self-awareness, self-assessment, and self-improvement begin? 1:24:31 - Support: JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare and Discipline Pre-Mission http://originmaine.com/origin-labs/jocko/, THE MUSTER 005 in DC http://www.extremeownership.com/washington-dc-005. Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi http://www.originmaine.com, withJocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com, Onnit Fitness stuff, http://www.onnit.com/jocko and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, Way of The Warrior Kid 2: Marc's Mission http://read.macmillan.com/mcpg/way-of-the-warrior-kid/?utm_source=authorsite&utm_medium=authorsite&utm_term=jockofollowers-jockopreorder&utm_content=na-preorder-buynow&utm_campaign=9781250156792&et=44236-a110035216-n20273057, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, http://amzn.to/2szgaEj and Jocko Soap. https://irishoaksranch.com/storefront/jocko-soap 1:43:09 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 120 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:09Jocko Willink?

  So it's been a while since Q and A.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:12Jocko Willink?

  So we have some Q and A from the interwebs.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:16Jocko Willink?

  Go.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  First question, Jocko.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  More than once on the podcast, you've mentioned how the teams were so competitive that no one wanted to admit when they were cold. Being too cold puts you at a tactical disadvantage. In hindsight, was that a failure to control your ego? So your ego doesn't control you? I didn't ask this question out of idle curiosity. A lot of folks on active duty listen to the podcast and I'm concerned they might put themselves, their teammates, and their mission in jeopardy because of their egos. Won't let them admit they're too hot or too cold.

• 0:53Jocko Willink?

  Alright, so good question, good point, and there's definitely a big difference between being uncomfortably cold. Right? Like you're just uncomfortably cold, or uncomfortably hot, or uncomfortably thirsty, or hungry, or whatever. And being in an actual state where you're putting the mission in jeopardy because you're too cold, or or hot, or thirsty, whatever. So I just needed to say this, in the teams,

• 1:22Jocko Willink?

  you are 95% of the time, you are cold, too cold, too hot, too wet, too thirsty, too miserable, something. There's no time. When you're in the field, you put on 100 pounds worth of gear, you're uncomfortable from the word go. From the word go. And you're cold. You know, you come in over the beach, you're in wet camis. It doesn't matter. You'll come out with great technology and we got a dry suit of this, we got a wet suit that. No, you're miserable. It's not, you're gonna be cold, you're gonna be uncomfortable. You ride in a Zodiac. First, you you ride in a in a big rib, which is like a ten meter boat. And you have your Zodiacs on that boat.

• 2:06Jocko Willink?

  So you're in that boat, you're getting sprayed with water, you're getting bounced up and down. You do that for three hours. And then you launch your little boats into the water. Well, while you're doing that, you fall in the water, you slip, you get sprayed more, you're covered in water. By the way, the water's not warm. And then you gotta. Cause you're gonna travel in fifteen knots, so you gotta, you're facing a fifteen knot headwind for another two hours in a Zodiac. And then you're gonna get in the water and swim over, you're gonna be cold. That's just the way it is. And you can't complain about that. So, and you don't complain about it. In the teams, you just keep your mouth shut. That's what you do. Keep your mouth shut. Now. The big distinction here is this is correct. If you're gonna get hypothermia.

• 2:50Jocko Willink?

  Or you're gonna get a heat stroke, or you're gonna go down from dehydration, then yeah, you gotta speak up and be, you know, you gotta say, hey, guess what? I I got an issue here. I'm I'm starting, you know, I'm starting to get dizzy, or I'm starting to get lightheaded, or whatever. Yeah, if you cross the line. To where it goes from discomfort to actual problem, then you definitely need to. Speak up. Um, and it does happen. It happens a lot, actually. You know, when we when we do our land warfare training. In the desert, in the summertime, it's a hundred and twenty degree heat. You're you're gonna take heat casualties. You know, when I was running training, we used to just have premeditated. Heat casualty evacuation, because we knew someone was gonna go down. That's just the way it's gonna happen. Cause you got forty guys.

• 3:35Jocko Willink?

  That are all turning and burning, and they're all running on three or four hours of sleep. And then they're going out in the field, and they just got back from the field. And there's no time to rehydrate. You know, okay, there's time, but some guys might forget to rehydrate. And next thing you know, you got a guy going down. So this stuff does happen.

• 3:55Jocko Willink?

  And yeah, you gotta let your team know what's going on. I've the the closest call I had, I was on a long patrol, training patrol in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas. It was summertime, it was hot. We were planning to pump water, meaning you bring a little water filtration system into the field and you get to a stream and you can fill your canteens and it's great. And it seems like you have water forever because there's streams. Well, we, the way the patrol went, we started off in pairs. And then we linked up with fire team and then you link up with squad and then you link up with the platoon. Well, while we were in the squad link up, we, for whatever reason, the course that I was on, I didn't hit water. We had a couple of streams that were supposed to be there and they weren't.

• 4:39Jocko Willink?

  Cause they're intermittent streams. So sometimes streams aren't running year round. And the time of year it was, the streams weren't running. So the first one, I was, oh, okay, I'll be okay. Got to the, so you go up over a mountain, come back down the other side, get to this, where the stream is marked, intermittent stream is marked on a map. Guess what? No stream. So now, and then by that time I was out of water. So now coming, the, the next day, I'll, I said to myself, you know, if there's not water on this next stream, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have issues. And there wasn't water the next day. So, yeah, that's, but I started to feel the dehydration coming on me. That's why I hate being thirsty. I hate, I always carry as much water as I can. You, you gotta be paranoid about being thirsty. Once you start going down from a dehydration, it's really a bad situation.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  You went the whole day?

• 5:26Jocko Willink?

  No, it was two days.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Dang.

• 5:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And now I had water going in, but I didn't refill. I didn't have a ton of water. I should have had, I should have had one, I should have had maybe two more meters of water. As a, as a just in case, but I didn't.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Then you gotta carry.

• 5:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah. Cause you gotta carry it. Now you're heavier. Now you're sweating more. So there's a little balance you gotta figure out there.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:46Jocko Willink?

  But yeah, can it be a problem? Yes. I have seen it become a problem where, where guys ego's too big. They don't want to admit it for sure. So yes, this is a good warning. Don't let your ego get you in real trouble and because that's going to hurt your platoon even more. So don't let that happen. Don't let your ego prevent you from telling the truth about what's happening. And.

• 6:10Jocko Willink?

  This happens in, this can happen in the business world too, where, oh, you know what? Oh, I don't really know how to operate this piece of equipment, but I'm not gonna say anything. I'm just gonna try and do it.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:20Jocko Willink?

  Well, that's how someone gets hurt.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:21Jocko Willink?

  So again, that's an ego problem. When you have an issue, when you know you can't do something or you've never done something before,

• 6:28Jocko Willink?

  step up and, and raise your hand. Now, of course, you should have done the research, you should have, you know, you should have figured some stuff out on your own. But if you failed to do that, don't dig the hole deeper.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:40Jocko Willink?

  Raise your hand, say what the problem was. There you go. Good question.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, makes sense, cuz that, especially the thirst thing, like the dehydration thing. Yeah, you don't wanna be the guy saying, oh, I'm thirsty. You, but here's the thing, I think nowadays though,

• 6:56Speaker 01

  like teams and coaches, here's the thing, in football, okay, so Pop Warner football, they'd be like, yeah, no water, you know, we have a water break, you drink water at the water break. Otherwise, you're practicing, you know, kinda thing, it's like a toughen you up thing. But man, that can jam your health up.

• 7:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but let's face it, I mean, it would be pretty rare, you, if you gave people the, if you're doing a practice, what, how long does a practice last, two hours?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Two hours.

• 7:18Jocko Willink?

  Okay. Bro, you can make it two hours if you're properly hydrated. Now, if a person's not properly hydrated going into the practice, sure, that can, that can be a problem. But if someone is properly hydrated going into the situation, it should not be a problem. And I'll tell you what, if you are in the military and you're going in the field, man, prehydrate like crazy. That used to save me so much from carrying so much water, just drink so much water. Now, I'll tell you where the problem comes in, you're in a helicopter ride for an hour and a half.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:46Jocko Willink?

  And you gotta piss so bad.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:48Jocko Willink?

  It's awful. But you know what? Bring a little, bring a little plastic bottle with you, so you can piss with the bottle.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  That's way less of an issue, I think, like finding a place to drink versus find a place to piss.

• 7:57Jocko Willink?

  It's way less of an issue. But yeah, if you prehydrate properly, no matter how hard you're working, you can go like 12 hours without any water.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:06Jocko Willink?

  Which is pretty legit.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:07Jocko Willink?

  For, for, you, you know, kind of an average SEAL mission, 12 hours gets you plenty of time.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, but ki- I mean, I'm talking Pop Warner here. So, you know.

• 8:15Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no, we're not talking about that. We're talking Pop Warner.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, but here's the weird thing. Like, when you went to high school, college, they'd have water right there. Right there in the sideline. And they'd, you know, they're really aware of, hey, you need good, you need water, drink more water.

• 8:31Jocko Willink?

  Well, I think that was also the time.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's actually the point.

• 8:35Jocko Willink?

  The era, the era, right? Like, when we were kids, no one ever, ever, one single time in my whole, from the time I was zero until I was eighteen.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:45Jocko Willink?

  No one ever said to me, hey, make sure you drink water. Never, never heard anyone say that. It was like, oh, you're thirsty, drink a Coke. What, you know, that's just the way it was.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 8:55Jocko Willink?

  So that changed for you in that time period.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:58Jocko Willink?

  When I got to, when I got to SEAL training, when I got to BUDs, that's when they were saying, oh, you gotta stay hydrated.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:06Jocko Willink?

  I thought it was kind of a joke. I thought they were kidding at first.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's true, man.

• 9:10Jocko Willink?

  What are you talking about hydrated? You mean, drink water? What do you, what do you mean? Why would you call it something else hydrated?

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:15Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you're thirsty, woo.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, it's like this, well, you should, because you can go down from like heat, okay, there's like, for there's heat exhaustion.

• 9:24Jocko Willink?

  Heat stroke, heat exhaustion.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:25Jocko Willink?

  What else is there? There's all kinds of heat injuries you can get.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you get heat stroke, right? You can straight up die.

• 9:30Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  So that's not, you know, it's not a matter of like, oh, yeah, tough it out, but you can't tough it out. You're shutting down kind of thing.

• 9:37Jocko Willink?

  That's for sure.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  And so, you know, that is important for the heat thing. And I guess the whole thing too.

• 9:41Jocko Willink?

  And that's, you know, going back to this question, that is probably why we would see heat casualties in training. Because guys do not want to say anything. They're like, man, I'm not gonna say anything.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:52Jocko Willink?

  I'm not gonna get an IV. And then you look even worse. Because that's what happens. You get stuck with an IV. Now you're laying in the field. Everyone else, by the way, continues on doing another ten kilometer hump to a target. And you're sitting there laid up in the ambulance like a little baby. No one wants that. But pre, if you prehydrate properly, you won't be in that situation.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:13Jocko Willink?

  But if you are gonna get that situation, you need to say something.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. We're talking about your life.

• 10:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Essentially.

• 10:21Jocko Willink?

  And more importantly, we're talking about the mission.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I'm still thinking about the Pop Warner situation, but yeah, man, I dig it. And you are correct. I can't help but agree with you one hundred percent. Next question. Jocko. Dear Jocko, my chosen community has lost and continues to lose members due to suicide.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  One reason is that they don't ask for help. I think one reason they don't ask for help is that they're afraid of being or being seen as weak. I'm aware that this takes strength and discipline to be able to perceive when you need help and to ask for it. I don't know how to convey that to them. Could you address how one can gather support from their team without losing face?

• 11:07Jocko Willink?

  So, so there's an obvious reason why I paired these two questions together because they're both very, very similar. And it's the same thing. And, and if we don't. If a member of your team won't come forward and admit they have an issue, then the issue is not going to get addressed. And this is the same exact thing that you have to explain to your team like, hey, if you start going down because you're dehydrated or you start getting, uh, getting frostbite and you need to get warmed up, you need to say something. If you don't say something, that's going to hurt the whole team. That's what's bad. So, so I think that's important. I think that's important to make sure everyone understands that this part of being a good operator

• 11:50Jocko Willink?

  is knowing your limitations and when you reach your limitations, raising your hand and saying, hey, this is a problem.

• 11:57Jocko Willink?

  And believe me, there's, there's guys that might complain about little things and they're eventually going to be labeled as a little complainer, right? And they don't really have issues. So there, there's a fine line, right? There's a fine line. But for this one, you know, for someone that's having some kind of mental stress. Well, again, we got to recognize what's going on. We got to recognize that it's impacting us negatively at work. So that means you got to raise your hand. If it's having a negative impact on the way you're performing, then you got to raise your hand. And I think it's important to explain to people that this is something that. Something that happens to, can happen to anybody. And it's not a negative thing, it's just a reality.

• 12:40Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's kinda like, it reminds me of being afraid. Right? And if, if, if you're, let's say you got a new guy that's never done anything before, and he doesn't know that he's gonna be afraid going on an operation, then he's gonna wonder why his stomach is upset. Or why he's second guessing himself, or why he can't sleep. Like, oh, you can't sleep? Guess what? That's normal. You're going on a hardcore combat operation tomorrow. The fact that you can't sleep is completely normal. The fact that you feel sick to your stomach is completely normal. The fact that you're, you're shaking, those things are normal. Like, you're gonna feel those. That's okay. It's not that big of a deal. And those things are just fear. That's what they are. And

• 13:23Jocko Willink?

  if you know what they are, and you know that fear is okay, and it's acceptable, and it's actually kinda good, right? Cause if, if you're not feeling any fear whatsoever, then, you know, you've got some... Well, you should be feeling afraid. You should, you should feel fear. That should, that should propel you, it should get you on edge. Those, all those things are actually happening for a reason. So, there's nothing wrong with that. And I think that's the same thing that you gotta explain to people with stress. Like, oh, okay, you can have too much fear. You keep someone at that heightened state for an extended period of time, well, that's called combat stress, and it's real. And it can happen, it can happen to anyone. And you know what? How many books have we talked about on this podcast?

• 14:05Jocko Willink?

  Where you can see stress, combat stress, taking its toll on people. And...

• 14:12Jocko Willink?

  And when it does, you know, we've talked about it many times, Pete, if you, if you get to that point, you need a break. And, and Dick Winters, from Band of Brothers, you know, he would give those guys breaks without them even knowing that he was giving them a break. He'd say, "Hey Echo, you gotta go back and do a little logistics run for four days. Just make sure we have more supplies coming our way." Get you off the front line, get you a breather. So that way, again, the same metaphor I've used before is, if you have an engine in the red, and you keep running it, what's gonna happen to the engine? It's gonna burn out. It's not gonna be usable. If you have someone that's psychologically stressed, and they're in the red, and you keep running them in the red, guess what? Eventually, they're not gonna be usable anymore. So you need to give them a break, get them off the line. Cause if you do take an engine, if your engine light, check engine light comes on, and you go and get it maintained, get it fixed...

• 14:57Jocko Willink?

  The engine's still good. If you keep running it, the engine will be destroyed. So you gotta do that with your people and you gotta make sure everybody knows. And I think that's a real simple metaphor to use with people as well. Say, look, we're running hard. And we're gonna put some stress on the engine. And if you don't keep the engine maintained, the engine's gonna break and you won't be any good to the team. You won't be good for the mission. So if you start feeling your engine light go on, you gotta let someone know so we can give you the proper maintenance. And that's it. Jody Middick talked about that too. Jody was, you know, saying, hey. You know, basically. If you get injured, if you break your ankle. They don't just expect you just to keep going. No, like, okay, you need to get back and you needed to rehab. Well, the same thing can happen to your brain. Your brain gets a break in it.

• 15:41Jocko Willink?

  You don't just keep driving or it's gonna fracture and fall apart. What do you do? You, you take a break. You get downtime and you get recovered and then you'll be ready to rock and roll again.

• 15:53Jocko Willink?

  So two really good questions to start it off. You know, again, especially for folks out there on the battlefield and, and it's not just for people on the battlefield because it happens with any, any group of people that are in a stressful environment. I mean, obviously cops get put into a really stressful environment all the time. Well, if you need to take a breather, you need to say something before you before you burn out the engine.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:16Jocko Willink?

  Same thing with business world, right? People in the business world get extremely stressed out. Well, you probably need a break at some point.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:23Jocko Willink?

  Make sure you work that in there.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Don't like, um, like police have like a, like a mandatory program or a mandatory situation where, you know, you go through, I, I think like when they shoot someone or something like that, like mandatory, you have to go to like some kind of like counseling or something like that.

• 16:41Jocko Willink?

  Most of them do now, yeah.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that, that makes sense too, because even if let's say you don't necessarily need it or whatever, right? You go through a shooting situation, you gotta go mandatory and then I gotta go through, but it's good that everyone kind of does it because it seems like.

• 16:57Jocko Willink?

  Oh, it takes away the the negative.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  The stigma, you know, like kinda like, oh, I I'm the only guy, you know, I'm the only guy that apparently feels this way. I'm looking around. No one else is going to counseling. Yeah, now I'm the only guy. I must be the weak guy, so I don't.

• 17:11Jocko Willink?

  They've done that somewhat in the military of, hey, when you come home from deployment, everyone's gonna go talk to a, talk to. What is it? A psychotherapist or something like psychologist? They they kinda do that. I know they did that in the SEAL teams where they'd be, everyone would go. Uh, they didn't do it while I was in. They give you like a piece of paper to fill out, which everyone just kinda gun decked, you know?

• 17:37Jocko Willink?

  Pencil whip, I don't know what, I don't know, you just like, you know, fill it out. Except for Tony. You know what Tony wrote on the the head of his? He wrote, um, this is a cry for help.

• 17:50Jocko Willink?

  It was pretty funny. Uh, but anyways, that was, he filled out like a whole fake one about just a funny one.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it makes sense, though, because of that, cuz that's kind of the the.

• 18:05Jocko Willink?

  It's the smart way to do things. Let's give everyone a, let's give everyone a baseline sort of, okay, check, here you go.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:12Jocko Willink?

  And that way, no one's, no one has to go, no one has to take, raise their hand first, right? You're all gonna talk to somebody. I think it's a smart thing to do.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cuz that's kind of the thing, right? It kinda goes along with the earlier question too, like, if it's a water break and hey, guys, water break, everyone's drinking water. So now it's like, you don't have to feel like, oh, the the one puss who like needs his water, you know, kinda thing.

• 18:38Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that's the exact, that's the exact same thing.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:43Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, if you got an issue, man, speak up, let everyone know. You know, that way you can do your job. You can do it longer, you can do it better. Your goal is to do the, is to be the best possible that you, uh, be the best possible. Capability so that you can go out and do your job the best if you're if you got issues, you gotta say something so that you can keep doing your job for the team.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, um, like, don't look at yourself as being weak. Look at yourself as trying to optimize your strength, kind of thing, you know, maybe just a flip over the way you look, look at it, whatever.

• 19:16Jocko Willink?

  There it is.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Next question. Do you think martial arts tournaments are the most effective way for preparing for physical confrontation? I just competed in my fir- my second jujitsu tournament as a three straight white belt. In in one match, I completely lost focus and control of my mind because I believe I was taken aback by the strength and wildness of my opponent. Hey, man, I dig it 100%. I I barely, I can barely even remember how my how the match unfolded. I've given this match significant thought, and I concluded that I need to compete more. I'm very com- I'm very comfortable with everyone in my academy. I trust the guys I roll with without question. They're like family now. The guy, the guy in the tournament was a total

• 20:02Speaker 01

  stranger. He was unknown and therefore elicited fear. I allowed myself to be to be crippled by fear. Is there any other way to overcome this beyond competing in tournaments? Thank you.

• 20:14Jocko Willink?

  All right. You know, competing is definitely part of it. And and it's interesting that he's asking if this is the most effective way to prepare for a physical confrontation. It is a very good way to to help you prepare for a physical confrontation. And and the bottom line is competing, one of the things that competing, one of the thing that that's true with competing and it's true with anything is that the more familiar you are with the unfamiliar, the more familiar it will become.

• 20:48Jocko Willink?

  I know that sounds pretty obvious, but the more familiar you are with the unfamiliar, the more familiar it will become. So you get to become familiar with things that are unfamiliar. And you learn how to handle things that you weren't expecting. In the teams, we always talked about like your first free fall jump, when you're, when you're learning how to skydive with, with a free fall rig. And your first jump seems like it's, it's like three seconds long, even though it's a minute, even though it's a minute, because you're just, you're all amped up and you, all you see is your altimeter. And the more you jump, the more you see until that minute. I mean, think of, have you ever tried to hold your breath for a minute?

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:25Jocko Willink?

  That, that's like a long time, right? But, and that's, that's the amount of time that can take up a free fall. It can be a nice, long minute where you're observing all these different things. But when you first start doing it, it doesn't seem very long. I'm sure if we had Andy, you know, Andy Stumpf on here, his one minute free fall probably seems like a really, really long time because he's got thousands of, of jumps. And so, this is the same thing. The, the more you train for chaos, the more accustomed you're going to become to the chaos. Now, what's great is, in this particular case, he's talking about this guy's just wild and crazy. And hey, if you survive it that first time, well, the next time someone goes wild and crazy, you're like, okay, well,

• 22:10Jocko Willink?

  here's what I need to do. Need to put this in check. I need to, I need to hold on. I need to make sure I don't give any positions, but I'm not going to get crazy. I'm just going to absorb some, you, you go through that mental drill, and the more you go through that mental drill, the better you, better you will get at it. And this is true, this is true with anything. And, and that's why, you know, when I was running the SEAL training, we put the, we, we would make it so, we'd, we'd hit people with the most random possible things, because that's what prepares you for random possible things, is random possible things. That's what you want to deal with. It's kind of weird, you know, in jiu jitsu, Dean, Dean used to talk about this, and, and now you can hear John Donahue talking about it as well. And if, if you have never been in a certain situation

• 22:54Jocko Willink?

  before, you're not ready for it. And when, okay, so there's a, there's a position in, in jiu jitsu called 50-50, right? That's what it's called now. We, we used to call it kakureko, because that's the position that Dean was in when he beat a guy named kakureko for the ADCC World Championships. And

• 23:15Jocko Willink?

  Dean, Dean calls that position 90-10 because he's been in it so much that even though it's a neutral position, meaning we both have the same advantages and disadvantages, when Dean's in that position, he's been in it so much that he's got a 90% chance, he's got a 90% chance of success because he's been there 10 times, 20 times, 30 times more than you. And I heard John Donahue talking about the same thing the other day. He's getting, you know, his, his jiu-jitsu fighters right now are doing things to guys that are, they're, they're putting people in positions that the person's not used to. So if you're not used to it, guess what? You're at advantage. Even though I might have trained, even though, let's say I'm a jiu-jitsu black belt and I've been training for 20 years, if I've never

• 23:56Jocko Willink?

  been in this particular position before, it's, I might as well be a white belt in that position. And you can see that happening. You can see that happening in jiu-jitsu. That's why when somebody comes up with a new, new type of moves, that move can be effective for a little while. Like, let's say, let's say you came up with a new move. You might catch me in that new move one time. And then I go, oh, I know what he did. But if, but now if instead of just a new move, you had a whole new area.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:23Jocko Willink?

  That I had to learn, yeah, then I had to learn a whole new deal around. It's the same thing with Eddie Bravo and, and 10th Planet, you know, like they, they were doing things like, oh, I've never been in this position before. Now what do I do?

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:35Jocko Willink?

  And they were catching guys like that. And then the more people figure out that part of that system, okay, well then you get better at it and we get to a neutral ground again. But anytime you can, so in training, anytime you can get to be, put yourself in a situation that you haven't been before, it's going to be beneficial to you. Now, what is, how does this translate to real physical confrontations? Right? How do you train for that? Well, how often are you putting on gloves in jiu-jitsu? How often are you having somebody punch you in the face? How often are you having somebody come up and push you around? How often are you having people do things that people are going to do in a street fight? Right? That people are going to do in a street fight that they wouldn't normally do in a jiu-jitsu match? Right? For instance, in a street fight, does anyone ever start on the knees?

• 25:21Jocko Willink?

  Right? They don't start on the knees.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  No, certainly do not.

• 25:23Jocko Willink?

  They don't, you don't start on the knees in a street fight. You don't say, hey, you want to fight me? And then you, you then you get down on your knees and so does the other guy. Now we figure out what happens. No, street fights don't start on the knees.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 25:32Jocko Willink?

  So you're almost, and, and people ask me this, actually, somebody asked me the other day, what, what should I do when starting from the knees? What's a good takedown? I'm like, oh, pull guard. Cause why are you on your knees?

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:42Jocko Willink?

  The best thing to do, if, if your opponent is on their knees, stand up and kick them in the face. Right?

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:49Jocko Willink?

  Cause you're not going to be, if you're, why would you be on your knees?

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:52Jocko Willink?

  So don't practice that. So how do you prepare for, the, the best way to prepare for these combat situations is, is, uh, is jujitsu tournament a good way? Yes, it is a good way. Is boxing, is, is boxing a good way? Is it good to do a smokers? So you figure out what it's like when somebody, some, you want to talk about with someone going wild? Wait till you get someone that's untrained in boxing come throwing, throwing, you know, windmill haymakers at you 38 in a row. Now they're going to be exhausted after that first 32 seconds.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:22Jocko Willink?

  But, but you will, uh, would have had to have withstand and not get punched in the head.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:28Jocko Willink?

  Cause if you get punched in the head by a wild haymaker, I don't care who you are, if they connect with your chin, there's a possibility you might go down.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:34Jocko Willink?

  So you need to be careful of that. So, so don't just think, oh, just jujitsu. Hey, go out, train some boxing, train some Muay Thai. And go and spar. And if you can do a smokers, cause smokers are pretty easy to do. In other words, you don't need to, you don't need to,

• 26:53Jocko Willink?

  uh, do like a full preparation camp and all that. You know, you know, it's an unofficial event. So you go do a smokers and you're going to experience somebody going wild on you.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:03Jocko Willink?

  Throwing haymakers at you, throwing crazy kicks at you. Do that. Do all these things to get ready for those physical confrontations. And then, then you also on top of that, you read and you look at YouTube videos. Go watch YouTube, I've talked about this before, go watch YouTube videos of street fights. Cause you get to see what people, what kind of things people do, which, which can be very effective, right? You need to watch, learn to watch out for sucker punches. You need to learn to watch out, watch your back and watch you sneaking up on you and be aware of your surroundings and put your back against the wall. You know, there's all these little things that you can do to make sure that you're not going to get sucker punched. But you gotta pay attention to those things.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. That what, that wildness that he talks about.

• 27:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  That is a huge thing. It's like a whole nother factor where especially and exactly how he said he's real. He's real familiar with his training partners, you know, so. Man, you know, the amount of cruising and kind of relaxing even during the role, there's probably a significant amount of it. Almost to the point where it seems like anyway, where he kind of maybe expects that. Or, you know, even subconsciously, kind of he, he understands that that's kind of part of the deal. You go against a complete stranger.

• 28:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  And he gets wild. Then it's like, whoa, this is like, it's kind of overwhelming, you know?

• 28:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And also even at the three stripe white belt level. That this other guy, he may, he's got his little game. He's got his game that he plays and there's a chance that as a three stripe white belt, you haven't learned that part of the game. So it just feels.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:37Jocko Willink?

  Crazy.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that whole, you know, when you compete for the first, second time, you know, just at those earlier.

• 28:42Jocko Willink?

  See, that's the thing is the more you train, the less holes there are.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:47Jocko Willink?

  Right? The less holes you are, there are in your game. And so if you're a three stripe white belt, you might not have good. Uh, guard replacement.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:57Jocko Willink?

  Right? Like you really haven't learned how to replace the guard from cross side. Well, if this guy happens to be a guy that holds really well across side and that's where he works his game from, man, you're in big trouble.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:08Jocko Willink?

  You're in big trouble.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it all seems so unpredictable too, at those earlier stages, because you don't know where your holes are. I mean, you, you might know some, but you don't know.

• 29:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  You know, you haven't seen enough of the game and you haven't been in enough situations where you, you can kind of stay calm and you know, all this stuff. So to your point where you say you gotta be familiar with the unfamiliar kind of thing.

• 29:30Jocko Willink?

  Remember when Majid started just baseball bat choking everyone?

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:34Jocko Willink?

  That was legit. Yeah. These little weird setups and he would let people pass his guard and he, they'd be thinking, oh, I'm about to score some points on that. And boom, they're getting tapped out.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. They'll, it was so foreign that, okay, so he went, the two real, real famous ones at the time, when he exploded on the scene with these was. It was Clark and Zach.

• 29:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Max, so there's two matches and one of them, Zach Maxwell mounted in arm bar. No, has him in the arm bar. Meanwhile, baseball choke is in, not, but who cares? Cause really that rule, not rule, but that situation of kind of applies. If you have someone in the arm bar, I don't care. You choke me up.

• 30:14Jocko Willink?

  Whatever. I'm about to break your arm.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Right. He's going for the arm, but he can't lean back because the baseball bat chokes in and he's like, he got a tap.

• 30:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  He got a straight up tap. And then, um, I think he was Clark where he could have been the other way around. But either way, Clark has a.

• 30:28Jocko Willink?

  Zach was, Zach was the arm lock. I was, we were at these matches, weren't we? I know I was.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I wasn't.

• 30:33Jocko Willink?

  I was there live.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  I saw the videos, but, um, yeah, the kind where Clark was like, I know this choke. I'm in mount or I'm in this good position. I know that this choke doesn't work. It simply doesn't work because I have the advent and he gets choked unconscious because he doesn't tap. Sure, it might hurt and that is the case for a lot of, a lot of chokes where it's like, sure, this hurts.

• 30:51Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no, don't even hurt. No, a good one doesn't even hurt.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:54Jocko Willink?

  A good choke is just in.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:56Jocko Willink?

  The, so what we're talking about there is a, a guy named Majid. What's Majid's last name?

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Hage.

• 31:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's right. And he, he came on to the scene, we'll say.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 31:06Jocko Willink?

  With, uh, uh, this is what's interesting about this is the baseball bat choke is not a new choke.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:11Jocko Willink?

  It's not a domain that people were unfamiliar with. It's just that he was doing it really, really well with really good setups that people, that's what, that's the part that people weren't expecting. It was a really good setups, they were really good setups that people weren't expecting.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:26Jocko Willink?

  And so he let people pass their guard or his guard. But he had the choke in, they'd get across side and get mounted or whatever, go for arm locks and they're tapping.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:36Jocko Willink?

  Because they weren't expecting it.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:39Jocko Willink?

  And even in those, you know, I mean Zach Maxwell and, and Clark Gracie, just phenomenal competitors. Black belt jujitsu, I mean, been training their whole lives.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:48Jocko Willink?

  Both of them got caught by that, by Majid.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, yeah, the. The legitimacy of like the way that whole thing went down was just so astounding. Like, just like how you said, like Clark?

• 32:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, Clark has been winning stuff from day one.

• 32:05Jocko Willink?

  And same with Zach.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and yeah, it's just crazy, but it just shows. You know, where you can, you can be that good.

• 32:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  You get just that one teeny tiny window of unfamiliarity.

• 32:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's what it is.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  The guy creeps in there and he's familiar, but he'll just have his way.

• 32:20Jocko Willink?

  And then what was interesting is as people started knowing that that's what he's gonna go for, but he'd still get it.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and actually he, and I trained with him before, yeah, you know, a few times or whatever, and he didn't do that to me. And I was like, hey, you know, like, what, I didn't ask him why he didn't do it to me, but I was like, do, do people, you know, like, does everyone ask you to teach them or whatever? He's like, you know what, people don't, I don't even really talk about it anymore because I've become so well-known for that move. That it becomes, it became less a part of my life, he said.

• 32:52Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, it can happen to where, okay, now, once you go, okay, it goes through a phase of, hey, I wasn't expecting that. And it worked because I wasn't expecting it. Then it goes like, hey, I was expecting it, but it still worked.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:06Jocko Willink?

  But then it gets to a point where people are just going, I'm not gonna do, you're like, oh, if he grabs my collar, I need to go in a totally different direction. I need to not do anything, need to back out, whatever. And then it becomes where, like you said, it's now it's loses some of its effectiveness because everyone is expecting that to be the move that you do.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  That's what happened with Dean, 100%, like where they'd be like, I don't care what position I'm in, I don't care what position I have to give up. And just do not get into that leg lock position. It's, and you could tell with some of his matches, I was like, I get it, you know, I get it. But yeah, man, that is how it goes. But the chaos thing, I think he should compete more.

• 33:46Jocko Willink?

  Yes, you should compete more, for sure, but what I'm saying is, compete in jiu-jitsu for sure, but do some smokers, do some Muay Thai, do some wrestling matches. Do some sombo, you know, get out there, do some different competitions. And then on top of all that, man, do some scenario-based training. You know, do some self-defense based training at the academy where somebody pulls out the, the, the, the knife, the fake knife, whatever, what, what do they call the fake knife and like, let's make sure we know how to deal with that. Let's make sure we know how to deal with a baseball bat. Like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Cause baseball bat, you know what you do with a baseball bat? Close the distance.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:24Jocko Willink?

  You know, hey, that's, that's, that's not even really a game changer. As long as you know what you're doing. Knife, you close the distance with a knife, now you're getting stabbed. That's a problem.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:34Jocko Willink?

  So you gotta make distance.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and it, again, man, that just that familiarity, like, once you go through it, that's like almost night and day in and of itself. Once you've seen it. If you've never seen it, versus if you've seen it once, like, that first step is night and day. So that's good that he went through this, really.

• 34:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. And what's, the other good psychologically, you know what he recognized psychologically? He recognized that he lost his mind. Right? What'd he say? He said, uh,

• 35:00Speaker 01

  He elicited fear.

• 35:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I got fear. What was it?

• 35:05Jocko Willink?

  In one match, I completely lost focus and control of my mind. So once you, that's just to what you just said. When you get that, when you experience that, that's a good thing to experience, cause then you learn to recognize that you're losing control and you're losing your mind and you're gonna, when you, when you realize that, it allows you to start monitoring it. You've never been, cause there's people that are listening to this right now, that have never lost their mind before. They've never been overwhelmed by something and just not knowing what to do, never been frozen. You ever been frozen with fear? Frozen with fear? If you've never felt your fight or flight thing engaged, then when it happens, you won't know what it is.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:42Jocko Willink?

  You wanna know what it is. So that way, when it happens, you can go, okay, I know what's happening right here.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:48Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna make this, I'm gonna make this decision.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and how you're saying, when you train boxing, or, um,

• 35:55Speaker 01

  boxing, yeah, yeah, and MMA. So, when you get hit in the face, and we talked about this before, when you get hit in the face and you haven't really been hit in the face before,

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Like that's a, it'll throw you off.

• 36:07Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  To put really mildly, it'll throw you off, so.

• 36:10Jocko Willink?

  Especially, yeah, you're, you're right, because when you see someone get punched in the face in a movie and it seems like it doesn't really faze them that much and they keep going. If that's what you expect is gonna happen when you get punched in the face, that's the wrong idea.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:23Jocko Willink?

  Cause what's gonna, if you've never been punched in the face before, when you get punched, it's a little shocker.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:28Jocko Willink?

  And there's pain and your eyes get blurry and you're, you get a little flash. I mean, there's a lot of things that go on when you get punched in the face. Once you get used to it, you're like, you can move right through it.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 36:38Jocko Willink?

  But if you're not used to it, it's a problem.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully, and it's, that's another one. It's night and day when a guy has been hit in the face a bunch of times and is used to it and a guy who's not used to it. Because you know how, like, you can hit a guy in the face or get hit in the, in the face and they'll be like, I'm done. Like, I didn't really expect this encounter, this experience, you know, when I get. And then other guys, they'll get hit in the face, break their nose, break their jaw, all this stuff, and they keep fighting, you know? It's like, dang. So, that night in the situation, if you're not used to it, which is essentially the same thing you went through. This guy went wild, he wasn't ready for this overwhelming experience and he lost his mind, according to him.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  So, if you get hit in the face, like, I remember Greg punched me in my face so hard, where I don't know if he was mad or.

• 37:29Jocko Willink?

  Or just Greg.

• 37:32Jocko Willink?

  Greg James fires it off, dude.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  He punched me right between the eyes, thought he broke my face. And it was the kind where it was a timing thing too, where I came in, I was shooting in and right before I, uh, level changed or whatever, he, it just connected, it was like boom. And I remember thinking, cause I just kept going. And I remember thinking, dang, I'm glad I was kinda used to getting hit in the face, cause that would've kinda, at the very least paused me for a long time. Like, dang, he would've, but, I'm, when you imagine just that kinda chaos and sensation. That'll just stop you.

• 38:02Jocko Willink?

  But once you're used to it, you're good. And this is a good point to bring up with, just with any kind of training, like leadership training, right? When you have leaders that haven't been put in certain situations before, that's why at Ashland Front, we do like role-playing exercises with people. And you put people in situations, the first time you put them in situations like dealing with a hostile subordinate that doesn't want to do the plan. The first time they get put in that scenario, they, they, they just, they just fall apart. Like, "Well, no, I told you to do it." And you're like, "Okay, let's replay that." By the third time you're doing it, they're already handling the job, handling the scenario infinitely better, infinitely better than they did the first time. So it's the same with everything in life, like the exposure to it and the rehearsal of it

• 38:45Jocko Willink?

  gives you such a massive advantage that to not rehearse and to not train is, it's actually sad. And that's actually, that, Ashland Front's a great example because that's why we're in business. Because people, people don't even know that they should be doing this. And, and to go to a company that has 50, 100, 150, 200 leaders that are leading teams, and they have no leadership training. And therefore, we're all surprised when the leader doesn't get the teams to do what they're supposed to do. Well, who taught them how to lead? Because you just don't show, you just not, you just don't show up to work knowing how to lead. No, you actually get trained to lead.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. All these unfamiliar micro scenarios happening.

• 39:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's, that's one of the, that's one of the, like at the muster, we do these little drills at the muster. And you could see, people are overwhelmed with the knowledge that they gain from two or three little scenarios that we put in front of them. And these are common scenarios that happen all the time, but when you watch seasoned business leaders try and handle a scenario that they haven't seen before, now, they might have seen it before, but they never actually had to deal with it. The first time they try and deal with it, they fall apart. And, and it's real, I would say it takes like 10 seconds before you go, "Okay, let's just stop." Because you've already got this guy mad at you. Well, let's try this again. Because we, we haven't been through this situation before, they've never been punched in the face before. And that's the problem.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:13Jocko Willink?

  Don't let it happen.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Get punched in the face a few times.

• 40:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Practice, you be.

• 40:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Can do it. It's kind of like, I remember when we were kids, there was this, there's this gum, you know, like Wrigley's chewing gum.

• 40:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  You know, the little packs, it's like four or five of them in there, small little thing.

• 40:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  And you, you know, you grab one and this one kind of sticky now, you say, hey, you know, do you want one?

• 40:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Offer one to your friend. So it was my brother and he did, a long story, but he was crying from something else. So he was sad. And he was like crying and oh, by the way, you know, he offers me some gum. I grabbed the gum. It's one of those mousetraps.

• 40:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  And it slaps you and then it kind of hurts when you're a little kid anyway. And it snaps my face. I'm like, dang, I never, you know, I see he's laughing. He was crying from something else and then he's laughing, cheered him up, whatever.

• 40:57Jocko Willink?

  Double leg.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  It was at the airport. Well, actually, which would have made the double leg even better. Nonetheless, I'd never seen that before. Now, someone offers me Wrigley's gum. I'm aware, I'm ready for that mousetrap. Maybe the mousetrap, maybe not.

• 41:14Jocko Willink?

  But you're grabbing by the side.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  I'm grabbing by the side. Exactly right.

• 41:17Jocko Willink?

  Lesson learned.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly right. I don't have to endure that. I won't lose my mind.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Life is no different. Next question. I'm a chef in a large operation kitchen. I'm second in command overseeing a large kitchen staff and part of a five person management team overseeing the entire account. Recently, during my last review, I was given some advice by my boss and his boss. I'm unsure about. My last two annual reviews have gone very well and I'm on the rise in the company. However, they said, if it was important for me to get, or he, however, they said it was important for me to give up some of my kitchen dog mentality and work to showcase my artistic side and embrace more of a star role in the spotlight.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Get out of the kitchen a bit more, gain more exposure, specifically with our high profile clients. While I appreciate their sentiment and respect their big management skills, their style isn't one I strive to emulate or feel would work for me and the way I operate. I have always approached my work as more of a craft than an art and I've always liked being a trench dog with my team. My team responds to it and I get results for the business and I feel the results should speak for themselves. It has propelled my career rapidly thus far, so why would I want to change and be something I'm not? Should I heed their advice or stick to what I do best? And keep getting after it on my terms?

• 42:50Jocko Willink?

  Ah, it's one of those questions. That's just funny how, how that last statement is framed, right? Should I stick to what I do best and keep getting after it?

• 43:02Speaker 01

  As if to say, if you say no, you should not stick to what you do best.

• 43:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and you should not get after it, right? That's, that's the frame there. And actually, this guy, I, I answered the question real tersely. I think this came through Facebook messages, you know, I said, uh, sounds like you've found a comfortable zone for yourself and you want to stay in there.

• 43:24Jocko Willink?

  Right? A little cold-blooded response and he's like, ah, I knew it.

• 43:29Jocko Willink?

  Because as we know, in the comfort zone, there's, there's no growth in the comfort zone. So it's interesting. This guy is actually getting some, some good, solid and straightforward advice from up the chain of command.

• 43:43Jocko Willink?

  Plus, I think if they have him as more of a personality, then the restaurant will do better. And they're trying to build their reputation and your reputation at the same time. And that seems pretty reasonable to me, right? And I'm not real familiar with the restaurant business, but I'm familiar enough to know if you've got a good reputation with the staff that works at the restaurant, it brings in more people. Like, there's no doubt about it. The, the relationship, just like any other business. The relationship that you build with the customers strengthens them, strengthens that relationship and makes them want to come back for more. Right? That's the way it works. And so for them to say to you, hey, man, hey, you know, you're a good cook. We get that. We need a little bit more. We want a little bit more.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Chef.

• 44:27Jocko Willink?

  We need somebody that has, yeah, chef, sorry. You're a good chef. Yeah, yeah, sorry. You're a good chef. Well, actually, what I, I think I might've actually purposely said that. Like, hey, you're doing a good job in the kitchen as a cook. We don't need someone that's just cooking the food. We need a chef with a reputation, with a personality, right? There's a difference there, right?

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 44:51Jocko Willink?

  So it was called out for a reason.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 44:54Jocko Willink?

  He's happy and you can see like kitchen dog. Yeah. He's proud of that, right? And I get that, man. I get that. I get that. Like you're one of the boys. You're back in the, in the grind. But let me, let me ask you this. Or let me make this statement. Guess what you have to do as a SEAL? As a SEAL leader, guess what you have to do? You have to build relationships. You have to make your commanding officer trust you. You have to build relationships with the army. You have to build relationships with the Marine Corps. You have to, in order to do that, you have to like raise your, you have to call a little bit of attention to yourself and raise your hand and say, hey, this is who I am. You, you have to take, you, this is who I am.

• 45:34Jocko Willink?

  You, you have, actually have to step into the spotlight a little bit so that you can let people know who you are. Because if people don't know who you are, how do you have a relationship with them? And if you don't have a relationship with people, how can they trust you?

• 45:47Jocko Willink?

  So, so. That's part of it, right? That's part of what they're asking you to do. Now. In all seriousness, if, if you really don't want to do it, well, then you can keep being the guy that's in the back. And guess what? You're going to be mad in six months when some other chef gets hired for a different shift. And all of a sudden he's out making friends with everyone. He gets promoted. And why does he get promoted? Well, look at what the guy's doing. But he's not as good as, he's not as good as a cook as I am. Guess what? They don't really care. Being, making the food is only part of what they want you to do. Just like being a SEAL, doing, doing missions is only part of what they, what you need to do to do the mission. You can't just be tactically sound.

• 46:32Jocko Willink?

  You've got to have the relationships built so you can work in the battle space that's owned by a conventional commander. You've got to have the relationship that you can get your missions approved up the chain of command on the special operations side. How do you do that? You build. You go out, you talk to people, you get out of your comfort zone. It's a weird thing. You know, I, I'm kind of, I'm kind of antisocial, right? Like. If you don't know me, we're not gonna have a conversation. You know, like, we're not having a, like, it's not, I'm not, I'm not walking up and talking to you. If I don't know you, I'm not walking up and saying hi to you. It's not happening. It's not my personality.

• 47:14Jocko Willink?

  If you say hi to me, I'll say hi. I'm not disrespectful. I'm not rude, but I'm not looking to have a bunch of conversations with people. And so that's known to me. But that's not okay for the business side of my life, which is, hey, I gotta talk to people, gotta build relationships. Gotta, had to know my commanding officer, had to know the Commodore, had to know the, the, the conventional battalion commander, had to know the brigade commander, had to build relationships. Could I just talk about war with the brigade commander? Well, I could, but what's more powerful? That I talk about war and I talk about where I'm from or where he's from or what?

• 47:59Jocko Willink?

  You know, other things? Yes, because I want to build a relationship with him. Why? Because I'm trying to build trust. Why? Why? Because I want him to allow me to go out there and do things in his battle space.

• 48:10Jocko Willink?

  So that's what they're asking you. They're asking you to step out of your comfort zone. It doesn't need to become your primary focus? No. Should you try and step out of the comfort zone? If you want to grow, if you want to have more opportunity, I would give it a try. I would give it a try. If not, you know, like I said, if you hate it and you feel like you're not being true to your true self, that's okay. Maybe your true self is meant to be the one that's back not getting promoted.

• 48:39Jocko Willink?

  They need somebody to do that. If it's not you, it might be somebody else. Yeah. So another one of those tough questions where people, you know, hit me with like, should I just be, should I be loyal to myself?

• 48:52Jocko Willink?

  Cause the the obvious like answer that everyone wants to hear is like, yeah, dude, the most important thing is you gotta be loyal to yourself. That's the most important thing. Okay, if that's what your priority is, then that's the most important thing. But guess what? Who does a who can take care of the other kitchen dogs that respect you so much? Who can take a better care of them than you can? Cause if you get promoted, if you don't get promoted and and Johnny glamour boy gets promoted. Because he's likes to go out and schmooze the clients and now he gets promoted and you're and now who's gonna take care of the kitchen dogs on his? On his time, right? Not him. He doesn't care. He's got he got promoted not for taking care of his guys. He got promoted because he schmooze the clients.

• 49:38Jocko Willink?

  Play the game a little bit.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  It's weird, man, you're explaining that and it's like. Makes complete sense. I'm thinking of it in terms of like being a. I don't know, but I guess it applies to any relationship you have. So so like, let's say, okay, you have a wife, right? You're you're buried, whatever. And. So. Your wife wants to go to hypothetically. Wife wants to go to, I don't know, Vermont. And you're like, hey, I don't like Vermont, you know, go to Vermont, whatever. But your wife's like, hey, I want you to come. Because I like spending time with you and and all this stuff. And as a husband, you're like, hey, I like spending time with you too. Why can't we do something that I specifically like to do? Whatever.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  And it has to do so a lot of times with like maybe your wife's friends or the in-laws. So I don't want to hang with that. I want to hang with you, but I don't want to hang with them. And the wife wants to hang with you with the friends and all this stuff or whatever. But a lot of the time. My case. Might have been me just sticking in my little comfort zone, you know, like the people that I like to hang out with, there there's like set stuff that I know they're into and I know that they like to talk about and all this stuff. And I'm essentially rejecting. Being open to new or other stuff. You know, that's, you know, that's kind of like a situation, but. In a way, I'm kind of doing what this um what this guy's implying where.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  It's like I'm gonna say true to myself and my interests and all this stuff. I love my wife hundred percent. That has nothing to do with it. Vermont has nothing to do with me and my wife, you know, but.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Why shouldn't I step outside of my comfort zone? And you know, try to accommodate her wishes in this way? It's not a make or break of relationship or nothing like that. But if I do that, if I just exercise the ability to be open, I become more valuable of a husband, more valuable. I offer more value in the relationship and as a person. So same exact thing when you're explaining this one. This guy's explaining where he's awesome in as a chef in the back, doing the, you know, doing his deal, doing what he does best. Awesome. But they, and these guys see it, his superiors see it, obviously, where they're like, hey, we want you to do this more stuff even. Cause you're awesome and man, imagine if you had this, this more stuff.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  You know, valuable you would be as a X, Y, Z, whatever the position is. In this case is a chef. And to reject that is essentially to say, you know what? I, I don't want to be more valuable as a chef. Or I don't want to be more valuable as a husband. I, I'd prefer to stick with my current value. I don't want to upgrade.

• 52:15Jocko Willink?

  There you go.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  I refuse to upgrade. So I'm staying true to myself. Just saying. Anyway, next question.

• 52:23Jocko Willink?

  I mean, can you cross the line and get to a point where you make yourself sick? Cause you've done, yeah, then you've gone too far. That's the dichotomy of leadership. Like, yeah, if you become just a, a disgusting sycophant, then guess what? That's not good. So I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about leaving your values and abandoning your values. That's not what I'm talking about.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:46Jocko Willink?

  Talking about playing the game a little bit. There's a big difference.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Step outside of the comfort zone, play the game a little bit. At the very least, do it with an open mind. See how you like it. What if you were like, you got real good at that? You know how like public speaking, for example, where I'm no exception. A lot of people, they don't like public speaking, even though they might have a lot to say or whatever, you know? Like some people like they're, they're smart, but I don't want to get up on stage. Nothing like that. That's dumb. I'm not, I'm not a star. I don't want the limelight on me and all this stuff. And they do it one time and they, and they offer like just so much value doing it. And then they get used to it and then all of a sudden they kind of like it, you know? Could be one of those deals.

• 53:24Jocko Willink?

  Could be.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Could be. You never know until you try it. Next question. Two of my bosses have told me, I don't like Jocko. Interesting.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Without giving any valid valid reasons, their ego is in the way. How do I flank them to help them see the path?

• 53:48Speaker 01

  My belief is that they're afraid of the truth and they they're afraid of the truth they see in extreme ownership.

• 53:54Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so, uh, yeah, I mean, clearly ego could be a problem here as a leader, you know, who wants to constantly be compared to some other leader? Right? You know, if you were teaching a jujitsu class, it's like, well, the way that the way that Dean teaches this, you know, that that would make you mad after a while. So that could be part of the problem. Oh, that's dead. That's definitely, that's that's way up there on the list of possible things. Could be the military flavor, right? Some people don't like the military flavor of things. So that's, that's okay. It's, it's can turn some people off. They don't want to hear about it. That's fine. Uh, the reality is. Here's the, but here's the reality of the situation. Okay.

• 54:36Jocko Willink?

  What is there to not like? About the things that I talk about, right? So let's say, you know what? I don't like people taking ownership. I want everyone to make excuses and blame each other, right? It doesn't, it doesn't even make sense, you know, instead of, yeah, we, I don't want to hear about this cover move. I want everyone to ignore each other and worry about themselves, right? Like that, that, that makes no sense whatsoever. You know, if, uh, keep keeping things simple, I don't want to, hey, look, I don't want to keep things simple. I want everything to be so complicated that no one knows what's going on, right? Like the, these things, they make no, there's no human being, no one in a leadership position. That would want everyone or that would, that would go against what these simple principles. So.

• 55:23Jocko Willink?

  How do you fix it then? Right? What's the problem? Uh, one, here's a couple, and actually this was a Twitter thing and a bunch of people gave great responses on Twitter after I kind of highlighted it.

• 55:35Jocko Willink?

  One, one of them, and my, my actual response is like, hey, just don't, you know, stop using my name. You know, stop saying, well, Jocko said, because you can imagine how annoying that must be. Well, Jocko's saying, you know, when you're in a leadership position, you know, it's like, that's gonna really grate on somebody. So, so, so throw that out the window. Don't pit it as me, Jocko against what your bosses are saying. No, don't do that. You've set up an adversarial relationship with them. And you've set up an adversarial relationship with me, and I've never even met these people before. I don't even know who they are, even know what business they're in. But what you've done by constantly harping on it is you've pissed them off. And now they're saying, dude, quit talking about Jocko. We don't care.

• 56:15Jocko Willink?

  Because also, the way that he's, just the way he's being offensive in approaching these things means that he has a little more listening and growing to do. Because if you really want to approach your boss, or, you know, he asked about flanking his boss. Well, the way you flank someone isn't going, hey, the way Jocko says you should do this, that. Like, no, that's not good. So, let the principles work. And another, another person pointed out, you know, hey, don't, hey, stop trying to impose your things on them. Like, take extreme ownership. How's that sound? You step up and start leading. You do your thing. You perform well. Quit talking. Quit trying to force these things down people's throats and give them space, give them room, and then

• 57:00Jocko Willink?

  they'll recognize that you're doing a good job. If you label it with something that you know they don't like, well, then they're not gonna like it, no matter what you do.

• 57:10Jocko Willink?

  No matter what you do. That's gonna be problematic. Don't bludgeon them with, with, well, you know, I, this is blah, blah, blah. No, don't do that. Take, let, put your ego in check. How's that sound? Put your ego in check a little bit. Make the ideas that you're talking about their ideas. Get them to talk about ownership. You know, get them, maybe they call it something else other than extreme ownership. Maybe they call it, you know, uh, personal accountability. Okay, awesome. That's great. Yeah, I really like that. I really like what you've come up with, boss. I'm in with, oh. Well, now they're in the game. And they don't realize that you're talking about the same thing. That's fine. Don't, they don't ever have to realize that. They don't ever have to realize that.

• 57:52Jocko Willink?

  So, I mean, there's some people, there's some people that don't like, even in the teams, there's people that like, they didn't like me. Didn't matter, didn't matter where, what the, the principle was. Didn't make, no, that's, no. It's like, no, like, hey, just, just, just don't, don't attach my name to it.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:11Jocko Willink?

  And go and do be a good leader. How's that? So those are some things. I think if you live, live the principles, act on the principles. No one's going to be mad at you for taking ownership and responsibility of what you're doing. Unless you say, oh, you like how I took ownership of that? Well, then you might paint yourself into a corner where you end up being stupid. Or they end up not accepting what you're doing.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:34Jocko Willink?

  And they'll get mad at you for stepping on their toes, of course. And it is also as you do this, as you take ownership, don't rub their noses in it. You give them credit. How hard is that? You know, you've come up with a solution to the problem, say, hey, no, actually I got this idea from something I saw you doing. Really? Right? That's how you, that's how you flank them. Hey, I took ownership of this problem. Oh, really? Oh, you said, oh, here we go, extreme. No, no, no, don't say that. Don't say that. You know, it's like, hey, boss, I wanted to make sure this got done correctly. I was watching the way you did blah, blah, blah, blah. And you go from there.

• 59:09Jocko Willink?

  Give them the idea.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it makes sense. It, yeah, I, I wonder how the boss got introduced to the concept of Jocko for him to eventually hate.

• 59:22Jocko Willink?

  In not like, in this situation, it probably was like, you know, multiple repetitions of, well, you know, Jocko.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 59:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you, you, and, and didn't pick up the vibe.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:33Jocko Willink?

  Which is like, hey, I'm dealing with someone with a big ego and they're not going to take well to me talking about this other guy's leadership style. Do you, you don't want to be compared to some other leader if you're in a leadership position?

• 59:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and, and also it's kind of the same thing, but a little bit different. The, that, thinking about that type of scenario, man, that's the worst. That's like, as a boss, I would think that that'd be really bad. Cause okay, so here, here's a, here's a situation. So I make videos sometimes. Right? And so let's say I'm, and actually this is an actual thing that actually happened where, okay, so I made this video for this, we'll say, client. And kind of say, okay, you know, they look at it as typical, you know, they'll have some input, maybe some information they want to add or take or change or whatever. And then, um, This guy said, oh yeah, I'm not sure about this part. I showed it to my wife and she said,

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  you know, X, Y, Z and X, Y. And I'm thinking, okay, I get it. Like, okay, you showed it to people. That I understand. But I was like, wait, wait, wait. So this is a video I made for you and your deal, you know, kind of thing. And you went and showed your wife and then now she has some kind of input. She's not part of this deal, you know? Now you're like citing your wife's critique and like all this stuff. And it doesn't make sense, by the way, as far as what we've discussed and all this stuff, right? So the, so the wife is good. Now I kind of have this kind of disdain for the wife. I don't know the wife at all, by the way. So I'm like, I'm just not feeling the wife anymore.

• 1:01:00Jocko Willink?

  Your ego got in the way a little bit, right?

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  A little bit. And it's, and it's natural is what I'm saying where it's kind of like, I thought we were doing this video kind of together and I was do this for you and you gave me the input and right now you involved your wife in it, who threw the whole thing off because she's not even part of this little thing right now.

• 1:01:14Jocko Willink?

  It's really hard to put your ego in check. It's really hard to put your ego in check and actually listen to what the critique points are. It's, it's hard for anyone to do that, you know? And so when it happens, you have to go, okay, ah, that's my ego and you need to put it aside.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. So consider this situation. If the guy would have just said, don't say, I showed it to my wife and she said this. Don't say, if he would have said, well, I was thinking about this, which is what the wife said, you know, in there, whatever. I was thinking about this, whether it would have got delivered way better, way easier. Same thing with your, your situation. If someone's saying, I don't know, let's say, for example, it's a fireman, it's a fireman. And, you know, the, the boss is saying, hey, we should do this and do that. And then this guy just out of the blue says, well, Jocko said, this boss is like, who the hell is Jocko? I don't remember hiring Jocko. Who, who is this guy? And what's he talking about? Cool. But Jocko has no say in this department. It's me, it's you, it's the team, you know, the team that we've worked with, kind of thing. And that's kind of the feeling.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  So yeah, man, don't say Jocko. Leave Jocko.

• 1:02:20Jocko Willink?

  I don't need the credit. Not all.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  Next question. Jocko, please explain how working harder for an incompetent superior helps oneself. I feel like screw them and whatever lightning bolt of luck, they were struck by it again in their position. Is that kinda like screw them and the horse they rode in on?

• 1:02:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that is. No, he's saying screw them and they they were there. They're in their position of superiority because they got lucky.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:46Jocko Willink?

  I didn't get lucky. Screw them.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Jocko Willink?

  And you know, here's the answer to that is like, okay, so what are you gonna do then?

• 1:02:53Jocko Willink?

  What are you gonna do then? Are you gonna sit around and wait for your own bolt of lightning of luck to hit you? Is that what you're gonna do? I don't recommend that. Instead, I I recommend that you step up and yes, you do work harder. And you do the best possible job that you can do and you take some pride in what you're doing and how you're doing it. And you do it better than they could, not to rub their nose into it. Not to prove that you can do it better, but out of professionalism. That's why you do it. Now, one outcome that can come from that is they get credit for your work.

• 1:03:30Jocko Willink?

  And that makes you all mad. No, that's actually good. Cause if they get credit for your work, guess what? If work's going well, they're gonna get promoted. And they get the recognition. Okay, that's fine.

• 1:03:43Jocko Willink?

  But but they know where the actual credit goes, even if they don't give it to you. Even if they don't give it to you, they know it. Even if they're the type of person you go that doesn't even realize that the the you're like, oh, wow, I did all that work and he's taking all the credit for it. They don't even know that I made this happen. Or he doesn't even know that he that I made this happen. They know. They know. So as long as you can keep your ego in check and you can let them have the credit. Eventually, they get promoted, the team's doing well, you'll look good, you'll get promoted, your life is easy. You're gaining experience, you've got a good reputation, like everything is going in your direction.

• 1:04:24Jocko Willink?

  And and by the way, when that incompetent person does get promoted, who do they usually recommend that fills their spot? You, because you're the one that got them promoted. They're stoked on that. Now, you become a superstar. That's great. Eventually, they're gonna get found out, by the way. Like, someone, incompetency can't be hidden forever. And eventually, someone says, wait a second, you don't even know how to do this. That was, that was Echo Charles that was doing this, this whole time. Yeah. Okay, okay, well, we're gonna promote Echo. You're out of here. That, that'll happen.

• 1:04:55Jocko Willink?

  And when that happens, when that incompetency gets found out, then you will get the recognition you deserve, because people said, oh, that wasn't Jocko doing all this stuff. This was Echo. They go, oh, Jocko, you're done. So that, so that's something that happened. Or another outcome that can happen is that they give you the credit that, that you're due, which is great. And you still get promoted. And you may get promoted above them, which is fine, too. Or, and, or they might get promoted, which is fine. Stop worrying about it.

• 1:05:24Jocko Willink?

  So, those two things, if you do a good job, eventually, something good is gonna come out of it. Whether it's they get, whether it's you both get promoted, whether it's they get promoted above you, whether it's you get promoted above them, it doesn't matter. All those outcomes. Or maybe it's just the team continues to do well, and your job is stress-free, and you continue to perform, and, and the, the, the, the division that you're in grows, and you get a chance to promote, because everyone's getting promoted. It's like, all good. All good stuff.

• 1:05:49Jocko Willink?

  Or you can be angry, and you can be frustrated, and you can blame your own bad luck, and you cannot work hard, and you cannot do a good job, and you can be recognized as a slacker, and you can get blamed by the incompetent boss when things do fall short. Because that's what the incompetent boss does. He doesn't step up and take ownership of it. He says, no, you know what? I would have done a better job, but Echo was slacking. That's the problem. Now Echo gets fired.

• 1:06:12Jocko Willink?

  And, and guess what? Someone, we hire someone else to come in, and they start doing a good job, the boss is still gonna look good, and still get promoted. It's just that you lost your job. And by the way, you lost your job with a bad reputation. Now you can't even get a recommendation for a new job.

• 1:06:26Jocko Willink?

  So you lose.

• 1:06:29Jocko Willink?

  That's what's gonna happen. So, step up, do your best. It'll pay off in the long run.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Funny how like it's one of those things where if you can just flip the switch and see that, just that one little thing.

• 1:06:41Jocko Willink?

  And it's funny though too, the way those, the way these questions are framed. You know, what they wanna hear is like, no, you know what, if you got an incompetent boss, you don't help him out. You let him burn.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:52Jocko Willink?

  That's what you do. That's what people wanna hear. But it's, it's the easy answer and it's not the smart answer. And it's a short-term answer, not a long-term answer. Make your boss look great. How's that? That's my goal. I wanna make my boss look great.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  You know, there, there was a little tell in the, in the question too. I, I'm no expert, obviously, but I-

• 1:07:13Jocko Willink?

  A lightning bolt of luck.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  Of luck. So you know the whole deal and this is even, you can be an old person and recognize this. Like people who are bitter, I'm not saying the asker of this question is bitter, I'm not saying that. I'm saying this is the, the external scenario, but you know how if you get a bitter person who's just bitter in life, maybe not doing as well in life as they had, you know, had hoped or whatever. You'll, probability wise, you'll probably encounter them from time to time. No more. Saying how the guy who is successful is lucky. They're lucky. They had it given to them, like all this, all this other stuff. Me, I'm not lucky, whatever, whatever. But it's always the, the successful guy is lucky, always.

• 1:07:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they attribute other people's success to luck.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  To luck, for sure. So the lightning bolt of luck and screw them, you know, kinda thing, just that is indicative. I'm not saying it is, I'm not saying it is or isn't as far as this particular person, but it tends to be like that. And again, like that, just that switch, if you can like turn on the switch and just look at it, just like how you said. It's not intuitive. I get it, man, because it's like, this, I was in that situation where like literally I was doing the work.

• 1:08:22Jocko Willink?

  So many, think about this, you just said you're in this situation. Almost everybody has been in this situation and here's the difference. If you don't flip that switch and you're in this situation, your whole life goes down in the other direction. That's the real problem. That's why you meet people, you, you know, this is a, a thing I think about a lot. You, you know how, you, you know, people in your life, they're badasses, but they, but they're not going anywhere. Like, like you look at them and you go, man, this guy's smarter than me. And, and a better athlete than me and a better speaker than me. But they're not going anywhere. And you know why? It's because at some point in their life, instead of saying, oh, wow, that guy's, that guy's lucky.

• 1:09:05Jocko Willink?

  That's what they do. At some point in their life, instead of saying, hey, that person worked to get in that situation and I should do the same. Instead of saying that, they say, ah, that person got lucky.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Jocko Willink?

  That's why they're there and I'm down here.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:18Jocko Willink?

  You can't make, yeah, you can't make the upward climb. If you don't say, you know what? Hey, that person might be a little luck there, but guess what? They're obviously working hard. They're obviously doing something right because I'm down here and they're up there. How do I get up there?

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:32Jocko Willink?

  The answer to get up there is not by tearing them down. The answer to get up there is by working hard.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Jocko Willink?

  Make them look good.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  That the line you said, so, um, what? And so what are you gonna do about it?

• 1:09:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, what are you gonna do about it?

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  That's the switch right there. Cause I mean, you deal with it with kids. Obviously have some young kids and you know, same thing like, oh, this is how it is. Or this happened or, or whatever. Spilled milk. I don't know, whatever. And you know, the kid's crying and it's all this stuff. It's like, okay. So what are you gonna do about it? So you can cry, you totally can. And you can complain about how junk that is that the milk got spilled or your toy broke or whatever the situation. Yeah. Cause that's all true. It's absolutely true and good. You can cry or whatever, but if that's what you're gonna do about it, then okay, then that's what it's gonna be. And that's all it's gonna be. You're gonna continue to cry and you'll probably continue to cry next time it happens to. Or you clean up the milk, you fix your toy, whatever, you know, whatever. What are you gonna do about it? That's the whole thing, you know? What are you gonna do about it?

• 1:10:31Jocko Willink?

  It's interesting too. There's like a, just a known. The, the right answer seems really obvious when we talk about it right now, but not many people see that right answer.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:10:43Jocko Willink?

  Most people want to just be mad at their boss and be frustrated and undermine them and not work hard so that they don't get any shine on them. It's like, okay, great. That's you putting yourself in that barrel too.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Jocko Willink?

  Don't do it.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Crazy, man.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  Actually, I shouldn't say it's crazy. It's, it makes sense. I mean, I've felt that before. Hundred percent.

• 1:11:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Oh, for sure.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  For sure. Next question. Can you be default aggressive and relaxed in jujitsu?

• 1:11:15Jocko Willink?

  Okay, yeah, this seems like two opposing things that you can't do at the same time, but the actual fact is, yes, you can and you should. So you want your maneuvers to be aggressive, but you don't want to be using a bunch of strength to execute the maneuvers, right? You want to aggressively escape your opponent's position before your opponent gets settled. Therefore, you don't have to use strength. You can use, relax it, you can relax, you can, you can be proactive. Same thing with defending a submission attempt. You want to defend that submission attempt aggressively before the submission attempt gets settled in. You want to move aggressively. Again, I'm not talking about strength and spazzing.

• 1:12:00Jocko Willink?

  I'm talking about moving aggressively before your opponent moves and get ahead of them on their oodle loop. When you get ahead of them on their oodle loop, they're gonna have issues with you. And so, yeah, absolutely. You can be default aggressive and at the same time, you can be relaxed and you should. That should be your goal. Do you sometimes have to use strength in jiu-jitsu? Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Sometimes you gotta power out of something. Why did you, the reason you had to power out of something is because you were too late. Because you weren't moving aggressively enough. You weren't moving quickly enough. And so then you gotta power out of something, gotta claw those hands, claw that guillotine off your neck. You know what I'm saying? You know when you get a guillotine on someone, they're clawing your fingers away from their neck?

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So when that happens, that person was late.

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:47Jocko Willink?

  And, and now they're clawing, they're resorting to strength, they're resorting to panic. Clawing at your fingers. Sometimes it usually doesn't even matter. They can claw, doesn't matter. Good.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:12:58Jocko Willink?

  I like that sense of panic that I feel when they're clawing.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure you do. You really, you seem like you like it a lot.

• 1:13:06Jocko Willink?

  So that's what, that's what it is. And by the way, this is true in life as well, right? Like. If, if you are maneuvering correctly, correctly as a leader, you don't have to get aggressive at people because they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. You don't have to be, you shouldn't have to yell. If you have to yell as a boss, guess what? Your, your intent wasn't followed, your plan wasn't understood. There's so many mistakes that you made if you're yelling as a leader. Do you never have to yell? Yeah, so sometimes you can yell because you gotta make sure you get that emotional point across sometimes. You gotta make sure that someone realize, like someone doesn't seem to realize that the mistake that they made is severe enough that that warrants a yelling and therefore it doesn't matter to them because their dad yelled at them their whole life. So if you're not yelling, they don't get it.

• 1:13:48Jocko Willink?

  So can you, can you run into that problem occasionally? Occasionally, very occasionally, very, very rarely should you run into that situation. Because if you're doing the right job, being default aggressive as a leader, you should be in situations where you never have to yell because your people, because your people understand what it is that they're supposed to be doing. They understand why they're supposed to be doing it. They understand what the plan is. They understand what the contingencies were. They understand what the, what the intent that you had was. They understand that the way that this fits strategically into the situation. They understand all those things. And if they understand all those things, then they're gonna do the right thing. And if they don't, if they understand all those things and they still do something that, that doesn't make sense,

• 1:14:31Jocko Willink?

  well, maybe they do deserve to get yelled at. But again, all the first person I check is myself. And say, well, I obviously had to make this clear enough.

• 1:14:40Jocko Willink?

  So yes, relax harder.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  So yelling is to leading as using strength is to jujitsu.

• 1:14:50Jocko Willink?

  Somewhat.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  You gotta do it every once in a while. Or if you're late, maybe you, you lacked on your technique earlier. You gotta kind of make up for it a little bit.

• 1:14:59Jocko Willink?

  But think about this, you hurt your stamina when you use your strength.

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:04Jocko Willink?

  And when you yell, when I yell at you because something went wrong and you're my subordinate, when I yell at you, I pay a little price for that too.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:11Jocko Willink?

  Because it better be important and I better really think about it because I didn't do anything to build our relationship in a positive manner by yelling at you. Right? Didn't do anything.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Just like you didn't improve your jujitsu technique or knowledge when you used strength.

• 1:15:25Jocko Willink?

  Or really, I guess you improved your situation for a moment, right? Cause you escaped, but now you're more tired. Just like if I yelled at you to do something and you did it, cause you real, you know, you were like, okay, well, fine. I don't want to get yelled at anymore. So I'm just going to do this thing that he told me to do. That it's temporary, it's a temporary fix. It's a temporary fix.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know how like JP will say, um, aggressive, it isn't, or default aggressive isn't towards people. It's towards making things happen. So like, so in jujitsu, it's the same thing. So it's like, I don't aggressively like it's, and it, in a way you kind of can narrow it down to the timing thing. It's like, it's like, it's either taking action or hesitating kind of thing. So you just don't really hesitate. You can lay back if that's part of the strategy and stuff like that. You can relax when it's part of the strategy, but it's about making things happen. Like what are you trying to make things happen timing wise? So you know how like you have a thing Tim Ferriss asked, what is the disrespect? Remember he asked me that? What's the disrespect?

• 1:16:19Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  It's a jujitsu move. Yeah, yeah, guard pass. You're, you made up, but you made up the terminology as well. So the disrespect is, is basically when a guy pulls guard or you're in a guard scenario. It's actually not even a guard scenario yet. It's like you essentially treat that person like they don't even have a guard. Like the guard doesn't even exist. That's how little respect you have for the guard and then you just pass. But when you kind of think about it, when I think about it, when you've done it to me the times you have, it is literally that. So before I can establish any kind of position to establish guard, you're just, you're just, yeah, you're past it. You're done. You know, you don't even consider the guard.

• 1:16:59Jocko Willink?

  You know what's weird is, is where people get confused on this though, is they think, oh, so you're saying move faster.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:06Jocko Willink?

  Right? That's the weird thing.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:07Jocko Willink?

  And it is, it's not, it's, I'm sure I'll think of this at a later time. But it's not about moving faster, it's about moving more aggressively, right? It's not faster, it's like being proactive and being aggressive and shutting down the situation before before it even becomes the situation that you know it's gonna become.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Yep, so if you take, like you said, like if you take taking action and hesitation, you take those two, it's basically you're narrowing the hesitation down to zero if possible. That's literally what it is, yeah, just take action. And again, you can relax, you can wait, but it's not hesitation waiting. It's waiting, it's like more like being patient or waiting for a very specific reason. You can do all those things, but there's no hesitation, that's what I think that is. And then obviously it's gonna vary from game to game.

• 1:17:55Jocko Willink?

  This is something you hear over and over and over again in combat leadership philosophies. Like doing something now is better than waiting. Doing something that's pretty good right now is infinitely better than doing something that's great in two days.

• 1:18:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, good plan now, better than a great plan.

• 1:18:13Jocko Willink?

  Be aggressive, make something happen.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:14Jocko Willink?

  Like that is so important. Can you overdo it? Yes, you can. Can you make stupid decisions because you rushed? Yes, you can. Is there a dichotomy in this? Absolutely, there is. There's a dichotomy in every part of it. So, and every type of leadership, there's a dichotomy in jujitsu, right? There's a dichotomy, because if I just rush to a situation, well, that might be the situation that you wanted me to rush to. You gave me the opening, the trap.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, the trap.

• 1:18:40Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  It's like, you know, when you're like helping your friend move and then you get like three, four other friends, you know? And everyone's waiting around to be like, okay, where do we start? Okay, where do we put, you know, where do we start? Who's starting first kind of thing? The default aggressive guy is just gonna start moving stuff.

• 1:18:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  And that seems like, okay, that's like a little lighthearted scenario, but that's real. That's when I would run into it. You know when there's a bunch of people and we're all capable of making the decision? It kind of paralyzes everyone because...

• 1:19:08Jocko Willink?

  Oh, this is so true. That scenario that you're talking about, it happens over and over and over again in the business world. It happens over and over again on the battlefield. It happens on the training field where... There's a bunch of people and no one's taking leadership position.

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, like you're.

• 1:19:21Jocko Willink?

  All it takes is someone to say, hey, we're moving this over here.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:25Jocko Willink?

  Hey, put all this to get all the stuff off the truck right now.

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:27Jocko Willink?

  Boom. Guys are like, okay, cool. We'll make it happen.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, like your oil rig scenario.

• 1:19:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's the exact same thing.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. And if you're default aggressive, meaning that's your default, that's the, that's your zero. You're, you're that hundred percent, then you're just handling business.

• 1:19:45Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  Your whole life.

• 1:19:46Jocko Willink?

  Until you take it too far.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:48Jocko Willink?

  And you're trying to run stuff that other people might have a better vision of what to do. Like if I might be, if I'm only moving for the first time ever on our moving team. And I come in, I'm like, hey, guess what? Hey, we're gonna start getting this heavy stuff. And you're like, hey, actually, that's not a good idea.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:03Jocko Willink?

  We should do this. We should get this stuff in here into the truck first or whatever, right? Because you've been doing it longer. So even though it's gotta be your default mode, again, there's a dichotomy. You can push too far.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  But keep your eyes open. Next question.

• 1:20:16Jocko Willink?

  Let's do one more.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  Jocko.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  How do self-awareness, self-assessment and self-improvement begin? And how do they continue over time?

• 1:20:32Jocko Willink?

  Well, they're all tied together. And it starts with being self-aware, with being able to detach. Because if you, if you can't detach from yourself, then you can't see yourself.

• 1:20:53Jocko Willink?

  And so people ask, well, then how do you detach from yourself? How do you learn to do that? And a good drill for this is try to imagine the way other people see you. And what other people are thinking of you.

• 1:21:12Jocko Willink?

  And one place where this happens, and it definitely happened to me, is when I started getting put in charge of things. I started thinking about other people's perspectives. What are they seeing?

• 1:21:26Jocko Willink?

  If you're in charge, then what do your subordinates see you do? What do your subordinates hear you say? What kind of representation are they receiving?

• 1:21:42Jocko Willink?

  And if you work for someone else, it's the same questions. What does the boss see me do? What does the boss hear me say? What kind of representation am I making of myself to my boss?

• 1:21:58Jocko Willink?

  And then you start thinking about what do your friends and family think? What do they see? What do they hear?

• 1:22:09Jocko Willink?

  And so the question becomes, how well do you represent yourself? What shortfalls do you have? Now, when you first start looking, it's like you're looking at an overgrown lawn. There are some big, obvious problems. So you do a broad, just kind of general cut of the grass. You fix some of the big, easy problems that are obvious.

• 1:22:40Jocko Willink?

  And once you've done that,

• 1:22:43Jocko Willink?

  you've gotten rid of some of those big, obvious problems. You notice some more detailed problems. So then you handle them. And once you've got those handled, you see even smaller and more detailed issues. So you start trying to fix them.

• 1:23:00Jocko Willink?

  And that's what you do with yourself. You continually detach. And then you look, and then you refine. And then you detach, and then you look, and then you refine. And then you detach, and then you look, and then you refine. That's what you do.

• 1:23:19Jocko Willink?

  That's how you get better. And that process doesn't stop. It can't stop because if you stop refining, then

• 1:23:32Jocko Willink?

  then the weeds grow back. And the next thing you know, you can't see yourself anymore.

• 1:23:39Jocko Willink?

  And when you can't see yourself anymore, when you stop looking at yourself, then you accept.

• 1:23:49Jocko Willink?

  You accept anything.

• 1:23:53Jocko Willink?

  And that's wrong.

• 1:23:57Jocko Willink?

  Don't accept the faults. Don't give yourself the benefit of the doubt. You've got to be your own harshest critic.

• 1:24:10Jocko Willink?

  And hold the line.

• 1:24:14Jocko Willink?

  And don't let go.

• 1:24:22Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's all I've got for tonight. So.

• 1:24:30Jocko Willink?

  Echo Charles?

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:33Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of improving ourselves. If you have any recommendations as to how we might be able to improve ourselves a little bit?

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Sure, improve and maintain, improve, maintain, improve, well, something like that.

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  I would recommend, okay, let's start with the workout, right? Working out is established and known, well-known by the way, to be one of the only things that you can do that'll affect every other part of your life in a good way. It's also one of those things that, well, more health. If you lose that, you lose everything. It's one of those things. So why do some of us not regard it in that way 100% of the time? Why is, why do people not have time to exercise?

• 1:25:22Jocko Willink?

  Lack of discipline.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, possibly. It might be that short-term payoff thing. You know, it's natural to seek short-term payoff. It's natural. I think that's it. Because again, you lose your health, you lose everything, straight up. So why wouldn't health be first on the priority list? I don't have time to exercise. No, you have time to exercise, you might not have time to the rest of the stuff in life. Really, that's how it should be, right? Nonetheless, when you're exercising, your joints might degenerate. But don't worry about that even, because Jocko has supplements, Jocko supplements, Jocko super krill oil. This is omega threes for your joints, for a lot of other stuff too, by the way, brain, skin, skin tone.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  That's like a supplemental thing, but it is good for it. Nonetheless, that's a fact. And another one called Jocko, joint warfare. So your joints, when you start to lose the functionality of your joints, not only does it make workouts less desirable, less

• 1:26:26Jocko Willink?

  Fun.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  Effective, less fun, less everything.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  It can, it can jam up your health. Like physically, you can be less capable. So you want to maintain your joints. I didn't know this, but now that I do, I'm never looking back. Jocko Super Curl, take that and Joint Warfare, maintain the joints. Maintain joint health. Every single day. Get the subscription so you don't run out. That's what I say, straight up. Like.

• 1:26:50Jocko Willink?

  There's a panic mode if you run out.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you don't want that panic mode. You don't even need that panic mode. You don't need that in your life even, so why even bother? So get the subscription, do the recurring one every month, every two months, however often you take them, depending, you know, how, how nuts you want to get. Also, Jocko has a supplement. This is for your brain and your body, all in one. You don't have to take the pre-workout and the cognitive enhancing nootropic. You don't have to do that anymore. You take just the one. It's called Discipline. Tastes good too, lemon lime.

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  Force multiplier is what we call it, you know? Boom, that's a good one. Take that, that'll help you. That'll take, help you stay on task. Find all the words that you're looking for to use, you know, you don't, what do you call that anyway? Not brain fart. Brain fart's such a lame word. Not lame, it's not a lame word. It's a lame word when I say it.

• 1:27:42Jocko Willink?

  Absent mindedness?

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Absent mindedness, you know, it kind of combats all that stuff. Present mindedness is the opposite of abs, technically.

• 1:27:51Jocko Willink?

  Yes, technically, yeah.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, promote that and you're all good. It's called Discipline. Get all these at originmaine.com. The company is Origin. I say Origin Maine. I just, that's the company. I say it's Origin Maine. But it's really called Origin. It's in Maine and the website is originmaine.com. Also on Origin Maine, Giza and Rashgard for your jujitsu journey. Important journey, by the way. I would say ninety, I would say everyone, a hundred percent of, well, not a hundred percent. Almost a hundred percent of people who start jujitsu will say, okay, it's valuable. Whether they stick with it or not, you cannot deny the value of jujitsu, even with that, one of the questions earlier. Boom, you inoculate yourself, you know, to all these things. And it's weird how it affects the rest of your life.

• 1:28:36Jocko Willink?

  Jiu Jitsu is good.

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:38Jocko Willink?

  For your whole life.

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Nonetheless, when you start, you're gonna ask, what gi should I get? Guess what? Origin. You get an origin gi, made in America. The fabric's made in America. The cotton to make the fabric is made in America, grown in America. See, we're going all the way down to grown, straight up. From dirt, from the dirt.

• 1:28:58Jocko Willink?

  To the shirt.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  Shirt, to the gi top, to all that stuff. They also got hoodies. Pete sent me some new sweat suit situation.

• 1:29:08Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  Joggers.

• 1:29:09Jocko Willink?

  Are they nice?

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  Got them on right now. Straight up, most comfortable, most comfortable clothes. This goes for all clothing I've ever had. And that's saying a lot.

• 1:29:22Jocko Willink?

  That is.

• 1:29:22Speaker 01

  Most comfortable. Straight up is, straight up, yes, 100%. Um, is it because it's made in America? Maybe, maybe not. But it does speak a lot for the quality of origin in and of itself. And oh.

• 1:29:34Jocko Willink?

  Wait, it's comfortable because it was made in America?

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  That's the question. Is it or isn't it? I don't know.

• 1:29:40Jocko Willink?

  But it is comfortable.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:29:41Jocko Willink?

  The most comfortable.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Most comfortable.

• 1:29:43Jocko Willink?

  That's a bold statement.

• 1:29:44Speaker 01

  I know it is.

• 1:29:44Jocko Willink?

  Cause you are one that deals high in comfort.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  I know my comfort levels, yes. I'm a comfort connoisseur, 100%. And this one graded off the charts.

• 1:29:53Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:29:55Speaker 01

  But you lay down, you take a break, so I export stuff, you know, in, in, in video editing, special effects, you gotta export. So 3D stuff, export, takes a long time. 3D Studio Max is what it's called. Takes a long time. So while it exports, you start using your computer, doing other things, it kind of, you know, it can jam you up. It'll slow down your computer, whatever. So, you know, I take a little break. I'm gonna lay down on the couch. I got my origin whole sweat suit on, get some. And I lay down on the couch. And I'm like, this, for some, for some reason, I'm the most comfortable I've ever been in my entire life.

• 1:30:26Jocko Willink?

  You need to make, we, I'll talk to Pete, you need like a, a signature series comfort outfit.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  Series, yeah. Yeah, I have it on right now, that's it. You know, all you gotta do is rename it, embroider it right on the side, boom.

• 1:30:40Jocko Willink?

  Echo Charles Cruising in Comfort.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  Oh, big time.

• 1:30:43Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  And here's the thing, sure, I say that, and I know comfort is kind of a subjective thing.

• 1:30:48Jocko Willink?

  Maybe.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  Well, okay, I challenge anyone to, if you have the Origin sweatsuit, or if you get one, get on it, laid on on your couch. Temperature would have to be just right, because if it's hot and you have a sweatsuit on, you're not gonna be as comfortable, but keep that in mind, I challenge you to do that. Report back. If it's not the most comfortable, let me know, for real, 100%.

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  You get a taste of real comfort. American-made comfort, too, by the way. Also, if you're into jujitsu, or if you're not into jujitsu, there's a jujitsu immersion camp on August 26th this year. Goes to September 2nd, one week, two sessions in that one week.

• 1:31:27Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  I'm going, Jocko's going, and so is Dave Burke, the real Top Gun.

• 1:31:32Jocko Willink?

  The real Top Gun.

• 1:31:33Speaker 01

  Dave Burke, yes.

• 1:31:34Jocko Willink?

  Good deal, Dave.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Good deal, Dave.

• 1:31:36Jocko Willink?

  You know why he's going? He sounded like a good deal. If Dave Burke is going, you know it's a good deal.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  No, it's a good deal.

• 1:31:42Jocko Willink?

  Dave does not do non-good deal things.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and good deal, not in the sense where it's like a good deal, like, um, you know, like, I'm gonna get over, it's like a good deal, like, it's a, it's good, it's a win, win, win, win, win. It's like the best deal, best-case scenario kind of thing. That's what good deal Dave is all about. That's just him. That's how he is, how he rolls. Unless, other people would be there. Who else would be there? Hopefully JP.

• 1:32:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  And Leif.

• 1:32:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  Well, Leif just got his, a stripe, another stripe.

• 1:32:10Jocko Willink?

  On the white belt.

• 1:32:11Speaker 01

  On the white belt, yeah, so he's getting, he might very well be there.

• 1:32:15Jocko Willink?

  You think he'll be a blue belt by then?

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:32:17Jocko Willink?

  Should be.

• 1:32:18Speaker 01

  At this pace, yeah.

• 1:32:19Jocko Willink?

  If he keeps training hard.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, well, he has prior knowledge as well, so yeah, you never know.

• 1:32:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, just immerse yourself in jujitsu, best way to learn, in my opinion.

• 1:32:27Jocko Willink?

  Mine, too.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  A lot, even if you've never gone go, because last time, um, I even went on the side with beginner beginners, like, one day, zero days of experience, boom, we go through some, some stuff. From, and I'm not saying like, oh, I'm such a good teacher. I'm not saying that at all. But after like that session, they were ready to go start rolling.

• 1:32:50Jocko Willink?

  Humble brag.

• 1:32:53Speaker 01

  I know this because that's what they said. Not, not all of them, but some of them said that. Nonetheless, I'm saying there's a lot of value, jujitsu value. If you've never done jujitsu before, ever. So yeah, go, originmaine.com. Check it out. See if it's for you. It's for you, but you want to make sure and check on that one. It's a good one. Also, Jocko's a store. It's called Jocko's Store. Go to jockostore.com. So Jocko's Store is where you can get shirts, t-shirts, discipline equals freedom, get after it. Shirt with Jocko's big head on it that says good, just for those days that, you know, you're powering through some adversity, whatever.

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  Got Jocko there right on your shirt. All good. Rash guards, hoodies, patches.

• 1:33:43Speaker 01

  Beanies are either on there or they're like literally on the way. The wheels are in motion, man.

• 1:33:52Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  I can't stop it. Can't stop it right now. Um, a lot of cool stuff on there. Stickers, some decals on there. It's good. Anyway, you don't have to get something, but go on there, check it out. If you like something, get something. Really good way to support. Also, for workout gear, equipment, you want to introduce some variety in movements in your workout. Good place to go. Kettlebells, battle ropes, maces. Go to onnit.com/jaco. I once said, well, actually more than once said that Jocko's workouts are boring. They're not. I get it. They're not boring. I retract that statement. They're not boring. But if you run the risk of your workouts being boring,

• 1:34:38Speaker 01

  just get some new equipment. Actually, it's good because you know, when you get new, like even like something as simple as a jump rope, right? When you get it, it kind of rejuvenates a little party. You want to, you know, it's like when you get a new gi, you want to go to practice more, you know? You buy some new running shoes, like you're kind of compelled to go running.

• 1:34:53Jocko Willink?

  So you're basically still a five-year-old.

• 1:34:56Speaker 01

  Whatever. We kind of all are in a way. And if you go to onnit.com, get you some new fitness gear, it'll introduce a little variety to your workout, different gear, different movement, different workout. Keep you on the path even more and make it interesting, make it fun, man. I think that's my opinion. Anyway, on it.com slash Jocko, good spot, good way to support. Also, when you're buying any of the books that we review on this podcast, don't worry. I organized them on our website, JacoPodcast.com, in the books section. Just click through there, get the books through there. And if you're doing any other shopping, hey, carry on, do your shopping. Good way to support. Also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on iTunes,

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  Stitcher, Google Play, and any podcast app that you might use. Lot of new apps, by the way, doing podcasts. Yeah, subscribe, good way, good way to support. Also, we have a YouTube channel. If you are interested in the video version of this podcast, subscribe to YouTube channel. There's some excerpts on there along with the video version and enhanced excerpts. It's good. Deliver the message with some, I don't know, some cool music or something. Anyway, shareable stuff, like, so you don't have to share a two, three hour podcast with someone. And then, you know, when you get something in your message or inbox or whatever, and it's two hours long, you're not watching it straight up. In fact, I would say even, right when you press play, before you even get to like five

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  seconds in, you check, see how long it is. I think that's a normal protocol.

• 1:36:26Jocko Willink?

  It is a normal protocol.

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  You see two hours, you're clicking right out of there.

• 1:36:29Jocko Willink?

  Depends what it is.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  Depends on what it is and depends.

• 1:36:32Jocko Willink?

  But there's not too often that you just got a two hour block thrown, you know, sitting aside.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  Randomly.

• 1:36:36Jocko Willink?

  Randomly, somebody sent me a video.

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll watch it.

• 1:36:38Jocko Willink?

  I'll watch it right now. That's not happening.

• 1:36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, typically it doesn't happen like that.

• 1:36:42Jocko Willink?

  But three minutes, four minutes, you might be able to hang with that.

• 1:36:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you might share it with your, you know, your friend. Yeah, so subscribe YouTube channel, good way to support. Also, Psychological Warfare, if you don't know what that is, is what it is. It's an album with tracks on this album, not music tracks, it's Jocko tracks. And these tracks, each track is designated, engineered, if you will, to help you, me, to help me is what it is. But it will help you get past little moments of weakness that you might encounter. I'm not saying everyone's going to encounter it. Everyone probably will encounter it, but that's not the point here. Point is, if you do encounter it, you got something to help you. You got Jocko to help you. That's a good deal.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  You want to skip the workout or something like this? You don't feel like working out. That's really what it is. You don't feel like working out. The comfort of not working out is distracting is what it is, but it seems more appealing than the discomfort of working out. It's what it is. And then you listen to a track. There's a certain track for that. Jocko explains to you why you shouldn't miss the workout. Boom, part of the workout, you're good. And for every little weakness that you might come across is a track for it. It's all good. Just check it out and think like, dang, is that one of my weaknesses? Boom, get it. You're good to go. Hundred percent success rate in my experience.

• 1:38:09Jocko Willink?

  Cool. Also, you can get Jocka White Tea, which I'm not even going to say anything else about it because I don't have to.

• 1:38:16Jocko Willink?

  Because this is a drink that guarantees an 8,000 pound deadlift. And so what more else could I say? Regardless of age, everyone should know. And you should be careful with that because my eight-year-old daughter, she drinks some Jocka White Tea.

• 1:38:31Jocko Willink?

  Eight thousand pounds. DL, get some. All right, books. Way of the Warrior Kid. You probably already read the first Way of the Warrior Kid book. If you haven't, you can get that right now. You can also get Way of the Warrior Kid 2, which you have not read yet. It's called The Mark's Mission. You haven't read it yet because it comes out April 24th. It has more lessons, life lessons, how to be a better human being. How's that for a good subtitle? How to be a better human being. By the way, my nephew, my actual nephew, he likes book two better. He liked book one. He likes book two better. Judge for yourself. Preorder it now wherever books are sold

• 1:39:15Jocko Willink?

  so that it will be at your door on April 24th when it comes out. And on top of that, when you buy this book, you're helping another kid see this book. Does that make sense? Like when you buy this book, someone else is going to see it. It's going to elevate it and other people are going to see it. We're trying to spread the word. So the more we sell out of the gate, the more kids are going to hear about this book and the first book. So get a copy for your kids, your neighbor kids, your classroom at school, the library. Get as many copies as you can because we're going to help out a lot of kids get their lives on the path with this book. If you don't believe me, check out Aiden. He's a warrior kid, 12 years old, own business.

• 1:40:00Jocko Willink?

  You can get his soap, Jocko soap, from Irish Oaks Ranch dot com. So you can stay clean, which is important. Also, don't forget about Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, the manual for getting after it, which is what you should do, it's what we should all do. How do you do it, though? That's the question, and the answer is in the field manual. Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. If you want the audio version, it's not on Audible. It's on Amazon Music, Google Play, other MP3 platforms. Also, Extreme Ownership Combat Leadership Applied to the Battlefield, to Business and to Life. Number one New York Times bestseller, number one Wall Street Journal bestseller, Amazon bestseller, number one. Why?

• 1:40:45Jocko Willink?

  Because it works. Read it. And right now, you can also order the follow-on book to Extreme Ownership. It's called The Dichotomy of Leadership. You heard me talk a little bit about dichotomy today. And in this book, Leif and I go into the granular principles and examples from the battlefield and from business that will make you a better leader and a better person. All those scenarios we talked about today? If you read them and understand them, you'll be ready for you when you get punched in the face with them. So preorder that book now, or you're gonna have to wait. That's what happens. If you don't preorder, the book comes out and you don't get your copy.

• 1:41:28Jocko Willink?

  Because you hesitated, don't hesitate. That book comes out September 25th. And if you need intrusive leadership training with your team, then you need Echelon Front, my leadership consulting company. It's me, Leif Babbin, JP Denell, Dave Burke.

• 1:41:45Jocko Willink?

  Info at echelonfront.com, or you can just visit the website, echelonfront.com. We solve problems through leadership, that's all. And of course, there's the muster, which is our leadership seminar. We're only doing two years, two of these this year. One in Washington DC, May 17th and 18th, one in San Francisco, October 17th and 18th. These events are well on their way to being sold out. That's all there is to it. There's not going to be any other musters this year. Come to one of these.

• 1:42:13Jocko Willink?

  We will be there. We will not be hiding backstage. We will be out front with you. Join us there. Registered extreme ownership.com. Also, there is roll call 001 happening September 21st in Dallas, Texas. This is for current military, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, and other first responders. We appreciate what it is that you all do every day and we want to help you do it even better. So, one day, leadership seminar about leading in a dynamic environment. You can sign up for that at extreme ownership.com as well. And until we do see you at the muster or at the

• 1:42:55Jocko Willink?

  roll call, if there's some reason that you want to continue this conversation with us, you can find us on the interwebs. At Twitter, on Instagram, and inside the Facebook. This, you will find Echo, who is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And thanks to all the military folks that are out there tonight at some forgotten barricade.

• 1:43:23Jocko Willink?

  Waiting and ready for whatever comes. And to the police and law enforcement, firefighters, EMTs, and other first responders who are here on the home front also waiting and also ready for whatever comes. Thanks to all of you and to everyone else that is out there listening.

• 1:43:46Jocko Willink?

  But not just listening, more important, watching. Watching yourself, observing yourself, looking to see what you can do better and where you can be better so that you can become better. Keep yourself in check. Hold the line.

• 1:44:09Jocko Willink?

  And get after it. So until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.