Pod Insights Into the Impossible With Brian Keating You're full of SHIT! Piers Morgan & Brian Keating take down Moon Landing Denier About this episode The Artemis II mission to the dark side of the moon will be the furthest human beings have ever travelled from Earth. It's the precursor to a return to the lunar surface and perhaps even reaching Mars.
But still, there are those who say humans have never set foot on the Moon, such as Bart Sibrel. Once punched in the face by Buzz Aldrin, he says he’s on a CIA hitlist because he blew the whistle on the original moon landings being fake.
He speaks to Piers Morgan opposite Dr. Brian Keating, distinguished professor of Physics at UC San Diego and host of the ‘Into The Impossible’ podcast.
Then Piers is joined by former astronaut Charlie Duke, who was the youngest person to walk on the Moon, and Star Trek’s very own Captain Kirk, William Shatner.
Bart Sibrel's website: https://www.sibrel.com/
Dr Brian Keating's website: https://briankeating.com/
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:25 Dr. Brian Keating on moon landing conspiracies
03:30 Bart Sibrel discusses his conspiracy investigations
11:20 Bart Sibrel on lights, shadows and radiation belts
18:20 Motivation behind faking the moon landing
22:00 Will the Artemis mission be genuine or fake?
26:43 Charlie Duke and William Shatner join
28:17 Charlie Duke on walking on the moon
30:22 William Shatner on the opportunity to walk on the moon
33:00 William Shatner on being in Space
41:26 Charlie’s advice to Artemis II astronauts
42:43 Charlie and William on moon landing conspiracies
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Transcript 8,406 words · 11 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:59 Speaker 02 The most powerful government in the world falsified their alleged greatest accomplishment. They did indeed fake the moon landing.
1:07 Brian Keating? I want to treat Bart as a colleague, maybe not as an equal.
1:11 Speaker 02 I'm not an equal. Oh, my goodness.
1:13 Brian Keating? If you would let me teach you some physics, then you could make your argument stronger.
1:16 Speaker 04 Charlie Duke is an Apollo astronaut, the tenth and youngest man to walk on the surface of the moon. What do you feel about the conspiracy theorists who think the moon landings were all invented? They never happened. They're fake.
1:29 Speaker 05 You're willfully ignorant if you don't believe that we landed on the moon. What is the mindset of somebody who said, well, it didn't really happen? That's like the denial of humanity. These crazy individuals shouldn't have our attention.
1:42 Speaker 04 Given this is the furthest that NASA have ever sent a rocket, presumably you think this must be fake too. The Artemis II mission to the dark side of the moon will be the furthest human beings have ever traveled from Earth. It's a precursor to a full return to the lunar surface and perhaps even reaching Mars. But for this trip, historic though it is, there will be no landing, no walking, no flags planted, very much like unlike the Apollo mission 50 years ago. In a moment, we'll talk to the man who says he's on a CIA hit list because he blew the whistle on what he says are the original moon landings being fake. But first, let's talk to the chancellor's distinguished professor of physics at UC San Diego and host of the Into the Impossible podcast. Welcome to you, Professor Keating. How are you?
2:28 Brian Keating? Good to see you again, Pierce.
2:30 Speaker 04 Well, good to see you. I'm obviously about to talk to Bart Sibrel. He's made himself pretty infamous by ending up being punched by Buzz Aldrin for questioning to his face that he'd walked on the moon or been part of that, of course, that first immortal trip. What is, before we get to him, what is your view of people that just don't want to believe this has ever happened?
2:54 Brian Keating? I think it's something we need to take very seriously, but not literally. In other words, there are reasons, you could say there could be reasons why NASA and maybe the US government, maybe even the CIA would want to put a whack on Bart, as I've heard him describe it. Perhaps, you know, there are some mistruths that our government tell from time to time. But in order to believe the moon landings in the 1960s and 70s were fake, you need to believe a whole host of things that not only require vast conspiracy numbers involving hundreds of thousands of people, you need to suspend your scientific reasoning and your ability to search for truth. You know, Pierce, we live in an age that's sometimes called post-truth or post-fact,
3:39 Brian Keating? where you're entitled to your own, you know, ideas and theories. But in reality, what worries me more is not that people get facts wrong, I mean, that happens all the time, happens to me all the time as a scientist. But it's that we undermine the process of truth-seeking that no society can withstand. So I'm hoping to talk to Bart, you know, he knows about me, I've invited him to chat on my podcast, and he's turned it down for reasons that I don't understand. So I'm eager to talk to him because I think it's instructive for the public to see not only the great triumphs, but why we know for certain that these things happen and why it speaks to not only American exceptionalism, but humanities exceptionalism.
4:21 Speaker 04 Well, you know, we'll come back and discuss Artemis specifically in a bit, but given you've teed this up very nicely, and we have Bart Sibrel waiting, joining me now is Bart Sibrel, who has been, what many viewers, a conspiracy investigator about the moon landings, saying they're fake. He even confronted, as I said, Buzz Aldrin. Let's take a look at what happened then.
4:43 Speaker 02 You gotta keep shooting, man. Okay, well, if you can put it on your shoulder, don't be shy.
4:47 Speaker 06 Just come with me, Buzz.
4:51 Speaker 02 You're the one who said you walked on the moon when you didn't. Calling the kettle black, if I've ever thought of it. Saying I misrepresented myself. Get it away from me. You're a coward and a liar and a thief.
5:04 Speaker 04 Well, Bart Semerl joins me now. Welcome to Uncensored. I've actually met Buzz Aldrin. All I remember is he had one of the hardest handshakes I've ever encountered on any human being ever. So you were quite courageous there, Bart Semerl, albeit, as you were calling one of the great modern heroes, a coward. Why are you so obsessed about branding the lunar landings fake?
5:29 Speaker 02 Well, because one of the most historic events in human history isn't putting a man on the moon. It's that the most powerful government in the world that hypocritically claims to represent truth and justice falsified their alleged greatest accomplishment. They did indeed fake the moon landing. And Brian, first time I've ever seen you speak, he's obviously highly intelligent and a very reasonable person. Unfortunately, people want to believe a tantalizing lie like their team ran or won the Super Bowl. What he's, you know, he claims I'm denying scientific reasoning, but actually he's doing that because it's never happened in the history of the world that a milestone technologically
6:14 Speaker 02 occurred, like, let's say, flying across the Atlantic in 1927, or breaking the sound barrier, or splitting the first atom. It's never happened in the history of the world that more than 50 years later, no one could accomplish it.
6:29 Brian Keating? Absolute rubbish.
6:30 Speaker 02 Hopefully, what happened today. Well, you know, let me, let me, I'm up against, we've heard your side of the story for 57 years.
6:37 Brian Keating? I would love to just comment on that because I have, I have actual experience with an event that happened and it was separated by 60 years. I reached the South Pole twice in 2007 and 2009. Do you know who the first people to reach the South Pole were, Bart?
6:53 Speaker 02 Well, Adamson Scott.
6:55 Brian Keating? Yeah, that's right. And you know, Adamson was for Norway.
6:58 Speaker 02 It took four attempts to reach the South Pole.
7:00 Brian Keating? Hold on, hold on a second. Adamson was the first person from Norway to ever reach it. And we didn't go back for 50 years until 1964, Bart. We didn't go back for 50 years, exactly like what happened. Was it harder? Have I never been to the South Pole, Bart?
7:14 Speaker 02 I don't know. I mean, I presume that you went.
7:17 Brian Keating? I have video evidence of me there.
7:19 Speaker 02 Okay, so here we are with six. I'm not denying that. The fact is, we have six decades.
7:25 Brian Keating? But you just made a claim that nothing gets harder, nothing gets easier unless this is technologically true.
7:29 Speaker 04 Well, I can offer, I would like to offer my own contribution.
7:33 Speaker 02 Wait a minute.
7:33 Speaker 04 Well, hang on, Bart.
7:34 Speaker 02 I'm not getting much time to share my side of the story here.
7:36 Speaker 04 But, but, but, but, hang on. I'd like to offer my own contribution to that debate because I personally went on the last Concorde flight, which was about 20 years ago. And we have gone backwards in the speed of passenger air travel because it now takes twice as long for me to get to New York as it did 20 years ago. So, there's another example.
8:00 Speaker 02 The question is, are there aircraft that fly higher and faster than the Concorde? And there are.
8:05 Speaker 04 Not with passengers.
8:07 Speaker 02 Well, people are on board the M25.
8:11 Speaker 04 There's no commercial plane. There's no commercial plane that can get to New York in under about six and a half hours. Rose Concorde did it in 2 hours 58. So, the premise of your argument is flawed because you've already heard one example from Brian, you've heard one from me. I'm sure there are myriad other examples. But I'm just keen, before we get too far into the weeds on that part of it. You said here about the lunar landings. "In order to appreciate the full absurdity of the lie, it bears repeating what both the US government and NASA claimed in the 60s. On the very first attempt to, and all with one millionth computing power of a cellphone, they've been able to send astronauts to orbit and land on the surface of the moon,
8:53 Speaker 04 a distance that is 1,000 times farther than they can achieve with human spaceflight today." To buy into your conspiracy theory about this, that it never happened, the sheer volume of people who must have signed up to this conspiracy, right, is overwhelming. Why has none of them, why have none of the people that were part of the lie, why have none of them broken ranks to say this was all faked?
9:19 Speaker 02 Well, first of all, you're incorrect. I spoke to Eugene Krantz, Flight Director. He said that someone in the Command Center cannot tell the difference between a quote, "rehearsal flight" and a quote, "a real flight." Just because there's 400,000 bank tellers at Bank of America, what a bank teller knows about corruption in the bank and what the CEO knows are completely different. There's only three eyewitnesses to every program, and who knows where they're really going? The fact is, we did have someone come forward, two people came forward, Betty Grissom, the widow of the man who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon. I interviewed
9:58 Speaker 02 her for four hours before she died. I bet Brian did not do that. She told me that her husband called her on January 26, 1967, from NASA and said, "Hon, for some strange reason, the CIA is over the launchpad today inspecting the equipment. I've been here eight years, never seen them before. Why did they show up today?"
10:20 Brian Keating? That never happened. That never happened. Even your own testimony says that she didn't see them.
10:24 Speaker 02 Betty Grissom's a liar.
10:26 Speaker 04 Well, allow Brian to respond to that, please. Brian?
10:29 Brian Keating? She never said that.
10:30 Speaker 02 I haven't finished speaking. He interrupted me. Allow me to...
10:33 Brian Keating? Bart, I want to do you a favor. Bart, I want to do you a favor. I think what you do is important. I think, as I said originally, I think it's important to question things. Certainly, certainly the government lies to us.
10:43 Speaker 02 Oh, thank you so much.
10:45 Brian Keating? Hold on one second. But what Betty Grissom said, she said they were all over, the CIA was in the Mission Command Center. She never said that. If you go back and look at your own transcripts, she didn't say they were on the launchpad. No one had access to the launchpad because it was full of rocket fuel, so they wouldn't even let the technicians near it, as you know. But Bart, I think you have much stronger evidence. And I don't know why you're leading with the things that are most easily deflated. I'd love to talk about what you claim is the most strong evidence, so we can tell people.
11:11 Speaker 02 Did you interview Betty Grissom for four hours before she died?
11:14 Brian Keating? Did you say...
11:15 Speaker 02 Yes or no?
11:16 Brian Keating? I've read your transcripts. I've read transcripts by you and by her.
11:19 Speaker 02 I'm asking you if you interviewed her for four hours.
11:21 Brian Keating? She did say that they were CIA. She never said they were crawling over the launchpad. And does that prove that the moon landing didn't happen?
11:27 Speaker 02 You weren't even alive at the time. That's what she told me in a four-hour interview.
11:30 Speaker 04 Let me ask you, Bart. Bart, let me ask you. What is the most convincing piece of evidence you have that it was faked?
11:39 Speaker 02 Well, I have the crew of Apollo 11 faking being halfway to the moon using a one-foot model of the Earth, and I have the CIA on a third track of audio telling them to fake a four-second radio delay from Earth orbit. And then we have the eyewitness testimony of a deathbed confession of Cyrus Eugene Akers, who saw them film it at Cannon Air Force Base in 1968, even confessed to killing somebody to cover it up because the NSA asked them to do so. That's a strange thing to be saying.
12:07 Speaker 04 You've also claimed, I'll come to you, Brian, in a second, but you've also claimed you described what you call as anomalous shadows that are not parallel, suggesting multiple artificial light sources in a studio rather than a single distant sun. So these photographs that we're looking at now, you think are indicative of fakery?
12:27 Speaker 02 Well, let me also say, I went from being the biggest fan, greater fan than Brian. I had a shrine of Apollo pictures in my house for decades. And a filmmaker's job is to make fake scenes look real. Go back to the picture and look how shadows should be in sunlight. The sun, it's a million times bigger than the Earth in volume. It's 93 million miles away. It's going to cast shadows in the same direction on the Earth or the moon. There's two telephone poles about five feet apart. The shadows are parallel. Here's a picture that claim was taken on the moon of objects five feet apart. The astronaut shadows at 12 o'clock, the rock five feet away, the shadows at 9 o'clock. That can only happen with a close electrical light.
13:10 Speaker 02 We just proved with one photograph that they faked the moon landing despite what anybody says, despite what the corrupt federal government says, that picture cannot be duplicated in sunlight. It can only be duplicated with electrical light, which means you're on Earth, which means they didn't go to the moon. I'm sorry to bring you the bad news.
13:27 Speaker 04 No, no, that's your claim. Brian Keating, your response?
13:31 Brian Keating? Well, again, I want to treat Bart as a colleague, maybe not as an equal, but I want to treat him fairly. I want to say, Bart, you have much better evidence than I've heard you talk about.
13:40 Speaker 02 I'm not an equal. Oh, my goodness.
13:42 Brian Keating? Well, I don't think you're a trained scientist, Bart. I mean, if I go to my Wikipedia page...
13:46 Speaker 02 I don't think you're a trained cinematographer either.
13:48 Brian Keating? That's right, right. When I go to my Wikipedia page, it says...
13:54 Brian Keating? Okay, Bart, when I go to my Wikipedia page, people can see that I'm listed as a professor of astrophysics with 40 years of experience. When they go to your page, it says conspiracy theorist. So I don't want to say that we're equal, because we're not. We're not in the same league. I will treat you like a peer. I will give you an expert review of what you're talking about. But what I want to tell you very clearly, Bart, is you're...
14:11 Speaker 02 Your league is being deceived. Your league is parroting back what you're told.
14:15 Brian Keating? I want to tell... No, I want to use your own words. I want to treat you seriously, Bart. I want to say that you have talked to Candace Owens on her podcast, and you described what she later called the firmament, the asteroid belt, and then later the Van Allen belts. This is one key piece of qualitative but quantitative evidence that you have presented, which I think deserves attention. You've acclaimed the Van Allen belts are deadly, and they are not survivable, and NASA knew that themselves. Correct or incorrect, Bart?
14:42 Speaker 02 Well, show the clip. What a clip number is it here, right? Let's hear it in NASA's own mouth.
14:48 Speaker 04 Well, we've got the clip. Hang on, hang on. We've got the clip. Let's play the clip. So the Van Allen radiation belts, you've argued the radiation surrounding Earth is so extreme, it would have been lethal for any human to pass through, making the journey impossible. So let's take a look at the clip.
15:03 Speaker 02 Van Allen said so.
15:04 Speaker 04 Let's take a look. We're going to play the clip.
15:07 Speaker 07 My name is Kelly Smith, and I work on navigation and guidance for Orion. We are headed 3,600 miles above Earth, 15 times higher from the planet than the International Space Station.
15:24 Speaker 07 As we get further away from Earth, we'll pass through the Van Allen belts, an area of dangerous radiation.
15:34 Speaker 07 Radiation like this could harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion. Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice, once up and once back.
15:49 Speaker 07 We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space.
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16:29 Speaker 04 So that's your claim, Bart. Professor Keating, what's your response to that?
16:32 Speaker 02 Well, it's not my claim, it's NASA's claim. He said, "We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space," meaning the radiation challenges.
16:40 Brian Keating? Okay, but very carefully, he doesn't say because we've never done it before. He never says.
16:45 Speaker 04 Okay, then Professor Keating was called to it.
16:46 Speaker 02 Do you interrupt because I'm not in the same league as you and you're better than me that you don't let me?
16:51 Speaker 04 No, we just played an extended clip that you produced about a certain theory, so Professor Keating will now respond.
16:57 Brian Keating? Right. So a whiteboard sketch by some NASA engineer who is, to my knowledge, not sketching the exact schematics of the trajectory. He shows and he describes the Van Allen belts are deadly, and you're right, Bart, they are deadly. And NASA knew that because who did Van Allen work for? John Van Allen worked for NASA. So in order for us to believe it, and he testified that the Van Allen belts, if traversed safely, were no threat to the astronauts beyond getting a few chest x-rays, which you and I probably do every year, right? So I have a model of the Van Allen belts here. Here's a plasma globe which has electron plasma in it.
17:33 Speaker 02 I thought you brought that up already.
17:35 Brian Keating? Hold on, Bart, please. Now you're not letting me present scientific evidence, okay? There are electrons in here that are at 30,000 degrees Kelvin, far hotter than the temperature of the melting point of aluminum, which you talk about in that documentary, which I've seen many times to debunk it. Inside of this plasma globe, the reason I don't get melted is because the electron density is tiny. It is anisotropic. If you go at different regions through the Van Allen belts, it's completely safe. And one last thing that that asked that NASA engineer mentioned, he said it could be dangerous to the navigation systems, the electronics, correct? That means that according to you, we never even sent electronics, telemetry, anything through the Van Allen belts. But you know who else agrees that we did? The Soviets, our arch-nemesis. Pierce, you may not know this.
18:19 Brian Keating? The same day that we landed on the moon, the Russians had a probe that they were trying to return samples from the moon, like this moon rock that I have here, and they were trying to return it to Earth to beat us. And they ended up crashing that spacecraft on July 21st, 1969. They failed to reach it, but they agreed to coordinate with NASA so they didn't hit the Apollo lander because they agreed that would be a much worse thing. Now, Pierce, can you imagine us coordinating with Ayatollah Khomeini right now? And he's going to congratulate us tomorrow or tonight when the Artemis mission lands? That's what goes around the moon? That's exactly what happened. So, the best evidence, Bart, doesn't come from America even. It comes from the Chinese, from the Indians, from the Russians, who are our nemesis at
19:02 Brian Keating? the time, proving that we went there with their own images, data, and scientific evidence. So that's the way we should do things as a scientifically literate society. And your theory, Bart?
19:11 Speaker 02 Well, you're ignoring quite a bit of facts for a scientist. One of the facts you're ignoring is that, what is his name? Rotogen Dmitri, he was the former commander of the Soviet equivalent of NASA. He said as soon as he retired, the moon missions were fake. And then I have a friend who works at the Chinese Space Agency. He says that they're blackmailing NASA in exchange for technology that Congress forbid them to receive.
19:39 Brian Keating? Retroactively to the Soviet Union, which doesn't exist anymore?
19:43 Speaker 02 He has, wait a minute, we have the Russian space director saying the moon missions are fake, and we have an employee of the Chinese space agency saying they know the missions are fake and are being blackmailed by the United States.
19:54 Speaker 04 And your theory, your theory about motivation, your argument is that they were faked to ensure a Cold War victory for the US over the Soviet Union. You contend that NASA was under immense pressure to fulfill President Kennedy's goal of landing a man on the moon by the end of the 60s, but they lacked the ability technologically to do it. According to you, the risk of high-profile failure and subsequent national humiliation led the US government and CIA to stage the events in a studio instead, to which my obvious question would be, A, look, full disclosure, I don't believe a word of it. However, let's just assume for a moment your theory is correct. Which studio, where, where did they do this?
20:37 Speaker 02 Well, I guess you weren't paying attention when I said they filmed it at Cannon Air Force Base, June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 1968, according to an eyewitness who confessed to killing a coworker to cover up the moon landing fraud.
20:51 Speaker 04 Hang on, sorry, I didn't hear what you said, but there were a number of lunar landings. So you're saying it was all done in this one studio?
20:58 Speaker 02 Well, no, we know that the first one, the TV images were filmed at Cannon Air Force Base, according to an eyewitness who confessed to a homicide that was investigated by the military police, the United States Senate Intelligence Committee, and the FBI. And when they investigated, they asked him, why did he kill this coworker at Cannon Air Force Base in 1968? He said to cover up the moon landing fraud. He took an oath by the NSA for secrecy, his coworker was going to tell the public, and he killed him to keep it a secret. And back to whether the radiation belts are lethal or not, don't take my opinion, don't take Brian's opinion, go to sibrel.com and read Van Allen's opinion. His document that he published after sending probes up into the radiation belts
21:43 Speaker 02 in 1958 Scientific American article, and he says they are 250 times a lethal dose.
21:50 Speaker 02 So when they say we have
21:52 Brian Keating? That is depending on how you go through it Bart. If you go through a rainstorm through the eye of a hurricane, it's much different than going through the outer outskirts of it, where it's a nice light London fog perhaps. It's very different. Their Van Allen belts are highly anisotropic Bart. I want to teach you some physics. Bart, if you would, if you would let me teach you some physics, then you can make your argument stronger perhaps, okay? There's multiple Van Allen belts. There's an inner Van Allen belt, there's an outer Van Allen belt.
22:15 Speaker 02 Teach me professor who parrots back.
22:17 Brian Keating? Bart, I've heard you refuse to debate me. Bart, this is my only chance to debate you. You refused to debate me on Joe Rogan. You refused to debate me on Dex Freenan.
22:25 Speaker 02 I never received an invitation to debate you.
22:27 Brian Keating? Yes, you, you, you said you've received the invitation on Danny Jones's podcast and you said you don't want to debate me because I'm a victim, much like pedophilia victims. It was so bizarre, so I want to take my opportunity.
22:37 Speaker 02 He asked me if I wanted to debate you and I said no, because you're a victim. You have Stockholm syndrome. You're defending the people who are deceiving you. You're not the perpetrator of the
22:47 Brian Keating? Did the Russians, did the Politburo, did the Politburo that testified and said congratulations to President Nixon?
22:53 Speaker 02 What happened on the moon? I can't believe that.
22:56 Brian Keating? Wait, wait, why did, why did the Russians, why, why were the Russians?
22:58 Speaker 04 Bart, do you mind if I just cut to the quick here? Do you think you're just full of shit, mate?
23:04 Speaker 02 What's that?
23:05 Speaker 04 Do you think you're just full of shit?
23:07 Brian Keating? No, I don't think he does.
23:09 Speaker 04 Is it all just a scam, just to make money, raise your profile? Just spewing, spewing such obvious bullshit around the world about something that everyone knows happened? And you've made yourself well-known, notorious?
23:22 Speaker 02 Let me boil it down for you. I'm going to answer your question, okay?
23:24 Speaker 04 You've insulted, buzzed Alder to the point he punched you.
23:26 Speaker 02 I'm sorry if the truth about corruption is insulting to people who are flattered by it in a fallen world. The fact is JFK's relatives say with 100% certainty he was killed by the CIA. Robert McNamara on his deathbed said they started the Vietnam War and killed 58,220 of their own people on a CIA fabrication. So they're killing tens of thousands of their own people.
23:53 Speaker 04 So presumably.
23:53 Speaker 02 They're killing their own president. Wait a minute, so they're not going to have a problem faking a TV image?
23:58 Speaker 04 Okay.
23:59 Speaker 02 The only problem is that it's a positive lie.
24:01 Speaker 04 Okay, but just to be clear then, to extrapolate your theory, to extrapolate your theory, given this is the furthest that NASA have ever sent a rocket to the dark side of the moon, presumably you think this must be fake too?
24:14 Speaker 02 Oh, no, I hope, I hope they are able to do it. The issue is how can they can only do twenty percent?
24:19 Speaker 04 So do you believe the Artemis rocket is, is gonna be a, a genuine mission or a fake?
24:22 Brian Keating? Does it have to go through the Van Allen belt?
24:24 Speaker 02 I would assume it's gonna be genuine.
24:26 Speaker 04 How does it get through the Van Allen belt?
24:27 Speaker 02 Why is it, listen, the issue is...
24:30 Speaker 04 Well, hang on, no, how does it get through? How does it get through the Van Allen radiation belt?
24:34 Speaker 02 I can't, two people are not letting me finish this end.
24:37 Speaker 04 How does it get through?
24:38 Speaker 02 The issue is, the issue is...
24:40 Speaker 04 That is the issue.
24:41 Speaker 02 Why is it with six decades of better technology?
24:44 Speaker 04 Ah, so now they can do it.
24:46 Speaker 02 They can only do twenty percent of what Apollo did.
24:48 Speaker 04 Now they can do it.
24:49 Speaker 02 That's illogical.
24:50 Speaker 04 So do you accept, so do you accept? But do you accept now that rockets, space rockets, can get through the Van Allen radiation belt?
24:58 Speaker 02 Unmanned ones and maybe they have protection. We know they didn't have protection as of 2014. He said, "We must solve these radiation challenges before we send people through this region of space", which anything prior to 2014 did not leave Earth orbit. He said so himself.
25:15 Speaker 04 Okay.
25:15 Speaker 02 I'm sorry.
25:17 Brian Keating? So, Bart, do you think Elon Musk is, Bart, do you, do you think Elon Musk is deceiving himself?
25:24 Speaker 02 Well, he knows the moon missions are fake. He's playing ball. He didn't want to bite the hand that feeds him.
25:29 Speaker 04 So he's, he's all part of the conspiracy, is he?
25:32 Speaker 02 It's not a conspiracy. It's simply they perpetrated a fraud. They did a counterfeit. They cheated. Elon Musk says to return to the moon, they're gonna need fifteen fuel launches first. I got a clip here. Number five, a guy who works for NASA says it's gonna take thirty launches of fuel in order to have enough fuel to go to the moon. So how did Apollo do it? With one thirtieth the amount of fuel? I mean, it, the truth is right there in front of you.
26:01 Speaker 04 Final words to Professor...
26:02 Speaker 02 Six decades of better technology and they can only do twenty percent of what, of what they claimed to did with one million...
26:08 Speaker 04 Okay, Professor Keating, uh...
26:10 Speaker 02 They can't even land.
26:11 Speaker 04 Professor Keating, final words to you about the Armatus II, uh, mission.
26:16 Brian Keating? Well, I just want to say, first of all, to fake the moon landings would have been much more cost prohibitive, difficult, and involve a much larger conspiracy than actually doing them. We have evidence from around the world, scientific, where scientists are the most likely people to want to shoot that experts, Bart. This is where I feel like you're not taking advantage of me as a collegial engagement, because we're the most interested in proving things wrong. That's what we do for a living, Bart. But on the topic of science, what Artemis is going to do, appears, is perhaps pave the way for us to extend our consciousness, our civilization into the solar system, into the universe beyond. Because what happens if a large meteorite, a huge asteroid, impacts the Earth? God forbid. Or a global pandemic
27:00 Brian Keating? happens again. And all those reasons, by the way, are reasons that Bart should support in the mission of NASA, which has provided such a great deal of technology that has enabled him, if he's ever been on a commercial airliner, I used to work for NASA, working on aviation safety. NASA does a whole lot more than just landing on the moon, as amazing as that is, and they do it all, Pierce, for a budget that's equal to what women in America spend on makeup, about 20 to 25 billion dollars. Most people think it's 10 times higher. It's a very low amount of money. We're going to go there, we're going to build telescopes, we're going to explore habitation there, we're going to build rockets, because the moon is full of ice and its craters that are shadowed. The ice is hydrogen and oxygen.
27:40 Speaker 04 You know, I think it's going to be great, and I love all this stuff. And I think the answer to the whole thing is that when they actually send people to walk on the moon again, they should send Bart up there. Bart, you should get on the rocket.
27:52 Brian Keating? Let's do a debate there, Bart.
27:54 Speaker 04 Yeah, and we can continue the debate on the surface of the moon. And then Bart, my opening line would be, see? Told you. Got to leave it there. Thank you all very much. Bart, thank you. And Professor Keating, thank you very much.
28:08 Brian Keating? Thank you, Pierce. Thank you, Bart.
28:11 Speaker 04 Well, it's turned out that too many, most certainly no fact from fiction when it comes to space travel. Charlie Duke is an Apollo astronaut, the 10th and youngest man to walk on the surface of the moon. A legendary actor and part-time astronaut William Shatner, sometimes known as Captain Kirk of the USS Enterprise, particularly by men of my generation who were weaned on that glorious character. Welcome to both of you. Charlie Duke, what an amazing thing to have walked on the moon. Just, we've got some footage of you, which I'll just show my viewers to remind them of your great moment. Let's have a look at this.
28:46 Speaker 08 Hey, John, while you're sampling there, you might look around and see if you see any of the thick of the salt.
28:58 Speaker 06 That's what I'm looking for.
29:00 Speaker 08 Good show. I told him you were.
29:05 Speaker 08 Well.
29:08 Speaker 08 Okay.
29:11 Speaker 08 We see that one went all the way in.
29:15 Speaker 08 Not quite.
29:18 Speaker 04 Now, my first thought watching that, Charlie, was I, a couple of months ago, I tripped and broke my hip. And if I'd been in an airless environment like that, I probably would have escaped without injury. So I'm very jealous of the fact that you were falling over there in such conditions. But to be serious for a moment, you were 36 when you walked on the moon, the youngest to do it at the time, and it's 1972. Just a basic question, what was it like?
29:48 Speaker 06 Well, it was one of the most exciting adventures that I've ever had in my life, of course. We enjoyed every moment of it. We had three excursions out on the surface. We had a tremendous opportunity to explore the lunar highlands for three days. And John and I didn't want to come home, we were having so much fun. But they said, "Get back inside, guys, it's time to come back." So, anyway, we did a great job, I thought, corrected 200 pounds of moon rocks and did a lot of good experiments and left a lot of experiments up there to operate. So it was a tremendous opportunity for us.
30:35 Speaker 04 You also had another extraordinary role in the first lunar landing. When you famously responded to Neil Armstrong saying the Eagle has landed with the words Roger twang tranquility, we copy you on the ground. You've got a bunch of guys about to turn blue. We're breathing again. Thanks a lot, which was fantastic.
30:58 Speaker 06 Yeah, I was I was so excited that tranquility came out twang at first. And so I corrected myself. Neil had told me that he was changing the callsign to tranquility from Apollo 11 or whatever, what Eagle. And so I was prepared for it, but it was so exciting a moment there. You know, we landed with maybe 20 seconds fuel remaining. And so there was a lot of tension. And when Neil said, well, Buzz said contact engine stop and we're there on the ground.
31:40 Speaker 06 It was just excitement got me and twang came out instead of tranquility.
31:46 Speaker 04 William Shatner, welcome back to Uncensored. Always great to talk to you. You obviously went to space recently and you were very emotional, I remember, about the experience, understandably. How much would you have liked to have walked on the moon like Charlie? And how envious are you of this latest mission, which is the precursor potentially to people doing it again?
32:09 Speaker 05 Well, these guys, like test pilots and explorers and people who venture out into essentially unknown, enjoy it like it's a thrill. Like, I mean, falling, like you described, you fell on the earth and you had difficulty, you broke your hip. He falls on the moon. And there's nobody there to help him up.
32:35 Speaker 04 Right.
32:36 Speaker 05 And he's got a pack on his back, it's awkward, he he's alone.
32:41 Speaker 04 Yeah.
32:41 Speaker 05 These explorers, these test pilots, these astronauts, they get off on the on the adventure.
32:48 Speaker 04 Hmm.
32:49 Speaker 05 We ordinary people have to imagine what it's like to see flame going past your window, wondering whether the shields are going to hold or not, whether twenty seconds of fuel is enough to get back up. And there's this whole exploration mentality that requires, I mean, it's insanity really to want to do that.
33:12 Speaker 04 Hmm.
33:12 Speaker 05 And they're insane in a great way, furthering us. But these people going up in Artemis, they're in the same tentative position. They don't know whether that shield is going to hold.
33:25 Speaker 04 Hmm.
33:25 Speaker 05 They don't know whether the he the the the hydrogen's going to explode. And I, when I went up and I, on my way up the gantry, I passed by the off gassing. I said, what's that? They said, it's hydrogen. I said, hydrogen? That's one of the most explosive, elusive gases we have. They're dealing with the unknown, they're dealing with exploration, they're dealing with death.
33:49 Speaker 04 Hmm.
33:50 Speaker 05 Have they come to grips with what death is? What's on the other side? All those enormous questions are, I I don't know whether there's the astronauts are sitting in the Artemis uh thing right now, but you can imagine them leaning back, looking up into the sky, waiting for this explosion under them, wondering whether they're going to live or die and see their children and their loved ones again.
34:15 Speaker 04 I I I feel exactly the same way. I I just want to show viewers a a clip of you in space because it was great. Let's take a look at this.
34:24 Speaker 09 God.
34:25 Speaker 05 Where is this? Oh, Jesus.
34:32 Speaker 05 No description.
34:38 Speaker 09 This is nuts!
34:41 Speaker 05 Oh, God.
34:45 Speaker 04 This is us?
34:48 Speaker 09 Oh.
34:49 Speaker 05 Oh, I'm telling you.
34:51 Speaker 09 Holy hell.
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35:30 Speaker 04 An amazing experience. And you, like I said, you got emotional afters. But I, you know, I do remember very vividly, because I was born in 65, and I remember watching the original series of Star Trek, which I think, I think there were three series, weren't there, of the, of the original television show?
35:47 Speaker 05 Three years, yeah.
35:48 Speaker 04 Three years. And, you know, it was, the mission statement was to boldly go where no man has gone before. And what I just remember being struck by, and particularly is, now I look back on it, was how kind of multicultural the Starship Enterprise was. You had Mr. Sulu, Chekov, Uhuru. It was, this was a real visionary thing that you guys were putting on TV.
36:09 Speaker 05 It was. It, it was a visionary television, but it reflected what the visionary was happening on Earth. That was the time when things were being built and the concept of going into space was new and, and exciting. This shot, this thing, this Artemis thing, I think is even more precarious than any of the others because there's so many unknowns. These are ships that haven't been flown that way before. There's technology that hasn't been used. There's four inexperienced, trained, but inexperienced astronauts. The trepidation on this thing
36:52 Speaker 05 that's happening in our lifetime and in, in our present day is, ranks with Shackleton and Scott and Exploration of the South Pole, which I was at and I sat on a ice cap that was a desert. There was nothing around. There was nothing. Imagine nothing around you.
37:18 Speaker 05 You're forlorn.
37:19 Speaker 04 Well, we have a man. We have a man sitting here still, Charlie Duke, who can not only imagine it. He was there. He was on the moon on his own.
37:30 Speaker 05 I know, so you need to explore that mind, that mindset. When he fell over, did he think, "I'm gonna die"?
37:40 Speaker 04 Well, let's ask him.
37:41 Speaker 05 And what a way to die.
37:42 Speaker 04 Let me ask him, Charlie.
37:43 Speaker 05 Like a turtle, like a turtle on his back.
37:46 Speaker 04 Well, let me ask the man himself.
37:47 Speaker 05 Unable to get up.
37:48 Speaker 04 We can ask him. Charlie, what did you feel when you fell over?
37:53 Speaker 06 Well, when I fell down, I said, "I gotta get up." We practiced and practiced and practiced. We'd been in the zero-g airplane. We'd done that on bad. I've fallen on my back. I've did this. And we had, we practiced all of that. And so we were prepared for these unusual eventualities. But it wasn't like it was something that we hadn't thought about.
38:22 Speaker 05 Yeah, but it's one thing.
38:23 Speaker 06 How do we get up?
38:24 Speaker 05 It's one thing to practice.
38:26 Speaker 06 So we trained for it.
38:27 Speaker 05 It's one thing to practice and practice and practice. And somebody says, "Are you okay? Yeah, I'm okay. I'm practicing." It's another thing to be forlorn on a planet that there's no, there's no way out. You're falling and you can't get up. I mean, that's just one of the things. 20 seconds of fuel. You gotta get back up there and rendezvous. I mean, the things are extraordinary.
38:55 Speaker 04 I mean, on that point, Charlie, I mean, it's a great point by Bill. I mean, Charlie, obviously, this goes.
39:01 Speaker 06 Wait a minute, we had.
39:02 Speaker 04 Well, the question I'm gonna ask you is, it obviously carries enormous risk, obviously. And this Artemis 2 is the most powerful rocket that NASA have ever fired up. And it's going the furthest distance in terms of the dark side of the moon, literally, that we've sent people in relation to the moon. So this carries with it enormous, obvious jeopardy. How do you, when you were doing this, how do you deal with the potential of not coming back, of just something terrible going wrong?
39:36 Speaker 06 Uh, we never thought about it.
39:39 Speaker 05 I can't believe that. I can't believe, Charlie, I can't believe that.
39:47 Speaker 06 Okay. That was a, that was an astronaut. We'd never thought about not coming back. We had, we had, we had trained. Uh, if you got caught, if it exploded, it exploded. We had an out. Uh, uh, an escape system on top of the spacecraft for liftoff if the thing exploded. I mean, NASA had thought about all of those things. You just know that if it was gonna happen in some way and the suit split open and you got hit by a meteorite, it just wasn't your day.
40:20 Speaker 05 Yeah, but Charlie, you gotta remember the Challenger. The Challenger, the Challenger is before us all. Those of us who haven't trained and have your mindset, think Challenger and Artemis, and if Artemis fails, what a psychological blow that would be to the space program. Uh, I mean, there's so many complex things happening here to those of us who don't have your ability to deny the, the potential of death.
40:57 Speaker 06 We, uh, do you remember Apollo One? Apollo One blew up on the pad.
41:05 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah.
41:06 Speaker 06 In a training accident. It caught fire. They were killed.
41:11 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, I remember that.
41:12 Speaker 06 Okay, because of some, alright. But it didn't stop us.
41:17 Speaker 05 No.
41:18 Speaker 06 We said, we gotta fix this thing. We gotta fix it and do it right. And so it took a year and a half to reline the spacecraft.
41:25 Speaker 05 Charlie, I'm not talking about stopping. I'm, I'm talking about your frame of mind. I mean, the Challenger set back psychologically, the space program, for a long while. If Artemis fails, what a psychological blow that is. If Artemis is successful, what a glorious thing for the space program and progress to the moon.
41:48 Speaker 06 Well, let me tell you, if it fails, we're gonna try again. We're not gonna stop. That is just the attitude of the space program, attitude of the United States of America, and attitude with the astronauts. We're gonna make it successful. It might not be right away, but we're gonna make it successful. It's something that we're committed to, and we're gonna do it right. If it doesn't work right, then we're gonna fix it. And just like we did on Apollo after Apollo 1 caught fire. Just after a couple of others that almost didn't make it back. Apollo 13.
42:33 Speaker 04 Glorious story there.
42:35 Speaker 06 Mission Control and the crews came through and made a spacecraft that was built for two guys for three days. Made it last for three, four guys for, no, three guys for five days. So, I mean, there's just a way to work at it.
42:56 Speaker 04 As you're talking, Charlie, all I can think is to Bill Shatner, you know who would be 100% in agreement with everything Charlie's saying? Katim James T. Kirk. He would have exactly the same mindset. Because actually, it's the never stop dreaming, you know, boldly go where no one's been before. It's that that motivates people. I mean, Charlie, just to ask you, I mean, if we do get back on the moon, what advice would you give for the astronauts who make that next amazing trip?
43:27 Speaker 06 Drink a lot of water. Drink a lot of water. Well, if, just, they have the first landings on the moon, whatever Artemis that is in a couple of years. I hopefully have a chance to be around to give them some advice if they want it. And it's just, train, be prepared. That's what we did over and over and over again. It was like doing it in your sleep. We had trained so much. We'd worked with Mission Control. We'd worked with the crew. We'd worked with the rover. We trained and trained and trained. And so, that is the...
44:10 Speaker 06 The motivation behind Apollo Crews and what Artemis is, those guys, they're not just going out into the ether with no training. They're going to be well prepared.
44:30 Speaker 04 And Charlie, out of interest, what do you feel about the conspiracy theorists who think that all the moon landings were all invented? They never happened. They're fake.
44:39 Speaker 06 Well, the moon landing, the evidence is overwhelming that we landed on the moon. You're willfully ignorant if you don't believe that we landed on the moon. Five, six times. And the evidence is there. We left experiments packages. There's been photographed, every landing spike has been photographed by the lunar reconnaissance orbiter. You can see the descent stage. You can see the experiments package. You can see the cars on the last three missions. And the experiments have been operating, or they operated for five
45:19 Speaker 06 years and got tons of data. We've got 600 pounds of moon rocks. Where did they come from? They just didn't appear. And we brought them back.
45:30 Speaker 05 What's the mindset of, what's the mindset of somebody who says to these brave individuals and all the taxpayers' money that went to making that happen? What is the mindset of somebody who said, well, it didn't really happen? I mean, that's nihilistic. That's like the denial of humanity. These crazy individuals shouldn't have our attention. It's absurd.
45:54 Speaker 04 Charlie, do you have any of the moon at home? Did you keep a bit?
45:58 Speaker 06 No, they gave me a moon rock after 40 years, but I had to give it away. So I gave it to my prep school down in Admiral Farragut Academy. Two moonwalkers graduated from there, me and Alan Shepard. Alan Shepard first and then me.
46:18 Speaker 04 That's amazing.
46:19 Speaker 05 I have a watch with moon dust on it.
46:23 Speaker 04 Really? Fantastic. I've got a Captain James T. Kirk baseball cap. That's all I can contribute to this debate. Gentlemen, what a fascinating time talking to you. All I can think of, looking at both of you, I know your ages. I don't need to repeat them, but I hope I have half the vitality for life and curiosity and excitement about what we don't know, as you two guys have. You are an inspiration to all of us mere 61-year-olds. So, thank you very much indeed to both of you. Thank you for having us. It's great. It's great to see you, Charlie. Bye-bye.
46:55 Speaker 06 I hope I'm still around when we make that first landing and that next walk.
47:01 Speaker 04 That would be quite something.
47:02 Speaker 06 Thank you very much for having me.
47:03 Speaker 04 Charlie and I walk hand in hand to greet the... That would be brilliant, wouldn't it? I would love that. Can I come too? Yeah.
47:10 Speaker 06 You may.
47:11 Speaker 04 Thank you.
47:12 Speaker 06 I told NASA...
47:13 Speaker 04 Our junior member.
47:14 Speaker 06 I'm still... At 90, I'm still physically qualified to go into space.
47:22 Speaker 04 Really?
47:22 Speaker 06 But NASA says, "Don't call us, we'll call you." So, I'm not expecting a call.
47:27 Speaker 04 Great to talk to you both. Thank you both very much indeed. Pleasure. Thank you. Pleasure to see you both.
47:34 Speaker 06 It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Pierre.
47:36 Speaker 04 Thanks, Charlie. Take care. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, ask only one simple thing: hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain, and we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.
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