Physicist ‪Explains UFOs, the Moon Landing, and the Case for God's Existence | Real Talk with Marissa Streit

Please join my mailing list here 👉 https://briankeating.com/yt to win a meteorite 💥 In this episode of Real Talk, Brian Keating sits down with PragerU CEO, Marissa Streit, for a riveting conversation that explores some of the most intriguing—and controversial—questions about our universe. Key Takeaways: 00:00 Paid to Explore the Universe 06:36 Galileo's Awe Through Telescopes 13:29 "Discovering Big Bang's Cause" 16:38 "Stellar Origins of Iron" 24:23 "Life Lessons, Not Science" 31:11 "Predicting the Future: Coin Odds" 34:53 "UFOs and Cosmic Controversies" 36:56 "Life Across Endless Planets" 43:16 Giordano Bruno's Cosmic Beliefs 48:56 Government Suppression: COVID & UFOs 54:48 Moon Landing Denial vs UFO Belief 01:01:50 Measuring Moon's Position Precisely 01:06:29 Asteroid Detection and Earth Safety 01:11:36 "Two Pockets, Scientist's Humility" 01:13:23 "Hope for a Lasting World" - Join this channel to get access to perks like monthly Office Hours: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmXH_moPhfkqCk6S3b9RWuw/join Get a copy of my books: Think Like a Nobel Prize Winner, with life changing interviews with 9 Nobel Prizewinners: https://a.co/d/03ezQFu My tell-all cosmic memoir Losing the Nobel Prize: http://amzn.to/2sa5UpA The first-ever audiobook from Galileo: Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems: Ptolemaic and Copernican https://a.co/d/iZPi9Un 📺 Watch my most popular videos:📺 Neil Turok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt5cFLN65fI Frank Wilczek https://youtu.be/3z8RqKMQHe0?sub_confirmation=1 Eric Weinstein vs. Stephen Wolfram https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI0AZ4Y4Ip4?sub_confirmation=1 Sir Roger Penrose: https://youtu.be/AMuqyAvX7Wo Sabine Hossenfelder: https://youtu.be/g00ilS6tBvs Avi Loeb: https://youtu.be/N9lUceHsLRw Follow me to ask questions of my guests: 🏄‍♂️ Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrBrianKeating 🔔 Subscribe https://www.youtube.com/DrBrianKeating?sub_confirmation=1 📝 Join my mailing list; just click here http://briankeating.com/list ✍️ Detailed Blog posts here: https://briankeating.com/blog 🎙️ Listen on audio-only platforms: https://briankeating.com/podcast #universe #podcast #briankeating #intotheimpossible #science #astronomy #cosmology #cosmicmicrowavebackground #intotheimpossible #briankeating Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  What is the claim that America never made it to the moon? And why make that claim at all?

• 1:05Brian Keating?

  So this is one of the most depressing encounters that I've had. There's probably less than five people that believe that we didn't go to the moon that have academic credentials.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  I've watched you debate Joe Rogan a couple of years ago. Your claim is that it is very unlikely that we've had visits from outside of our planet.

• 1:23Brian Keating?

  There has been an awful lot of secrecy. There's been a lot of government expert suppression.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  Why? They have nothing to hide. What is the purpose of creating secrecy around it?

• 1:32Brian Keating?

  Encounters with advanced civilizations and primitive civilizations would inevitably lead to mass devastation. I never say I believe in God. I have evidence for it. If you asked before, 1929, and you said, what's the scientific evidence that there was a genesis event? There would have been none. Science's job is to change with time. My greatest hope is that what my students do is prove me wrong.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  So Brian, I was gonna ask you, what is it like to work on the most zoomed out version of our existence? But honestly, Brian, these days, when I think about what you do, given how zoomed out it is, I'm kind of jealous because this planet seems to be going bunkers. So maybe all of us can take a little bit of a break and think about the multi-universe and just the stuff that's outside of here. Maybe that's why Elon is so focused on the other planets.

• 2:23Brian Keating?

  Yeah, I love that idea. I mean, for me, I always say, you know, the thing that's best about astronomy and being an astronomer, nobody ever says like, I hate that constellation over there, or that asteroid really gives me a lot of politicization. And so it's great because you need a relief. You need, I joke, a safe space, a true safe space where you can be intellectual and you can think about things, the things you thought about on the dorm couch when you were in college, but because of the daily demands in your life, you can't think about them anymore. So we start to acquire, you know, spouses and kids and pets and everything. And we just don't have time to think about who we are and where we come from and where are we going? And my favorite question of all, perhaps, is there any intelligent life out there? You know, because sometimes on Earth, I'm not so sure there is any.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  Well, you're saying that this is kind of a safe space where people don't necessarily argue. However, in the world of the internet and the podcasting space, this has become another one of those things where people are arguing on whether the Earth is flat, whether there are UFOs, whether the moon landing ever really happened. And so we'll get into that in a little bit. But but first, let's talk about the less controversial stuff. And just in general, I think people would love to hear your story. So you almost got a Nobel Prize, which must be amazing in some ways and very challenging and difficult in other ways. And I know you wrote a book about your story. But for those who don't know your book and don't know your story, I'd love for you to share it.

• 3:51Brian Keating?

  Yeah, so I study the universe. What I do is called cosmology, not to be confused with cosmetology, although they both have the same prefix cosmos, because that means beautiful in Greek, as I'm told. I don't speak Greek, but cosm or cosmos means beautiful. And what else is the universe if it's not beautiful? And if you don't appreciate its glorious nature? So what I've done throughout my career is try to take on those big questions. As I said earlier, where did the universe come from? Does it have an end? Does it have an edge? Was there a beginning of time? Or is it an endless cycle repeating throughout all of eternity? And these questions always connected to a bigger philosophical, maybe even theological streak that I had within me. And I just never knew you could get paid

• 4:35Brian Keating?

  to do it. You know, I'm a state employee of the state of California, as we are here. Gavin Newsom is ultimately my boss. And but, you know, we get paid, but not that much, but we get paid to do what I would do for free. You know, that's the thing. Don't tell Gavin that. But I always thought it would be like being an ice cream taster, you know, like, who's gonna pay me to look through a telescope? Or, you know, teach to students, my favorite thing to do, and educate, you know, people about what the glories of the universe are, and how just amazing, and how finite, and how brief a time we have to appreciate it. So for me, I've studied this for 30 plus years now, building detectors to see the invisible light, things you cannot see with your eyes, but nevertheless, leave an imprint

• 5:15Brian Keating?

  for humans to study. And from that, learn about how the universe began, if there was a single so-called Big Bang singularity, or if there were perhaps multiple universes that died and collapsed and re expanded and did all sorts of interesting things. And we study the properties of what we can see, and we build detectors to see what we can't see. So it's really for me, tinker, I love like working on cars and building rockets and stuff as a kid. But when I got my first telescope. At age 12, this really changed my life because with a telescope, I realized that you can actually see other planets. Like, I literally thought as a 12-year-old, you had to be in a spaceship. You had to go to Mars, or Jupiter, or whatever. And I was like, I'm never gonna be an astronaut. You know, that's never gonna happen. So, a telescope

• 5:59Brian Keating?

  is really a portal. It's a time machine. It's a way of traversing and traversing space. And so, we have these time machines that are given to us, and we can talk about how they work. But the bottom line is, by seeing the past, I realized it would teach me not only about the present and the future, but really who I am, and who we all are. Because I think that's the base nature of what a human being is. You know, the word homo sapien means man, homo. And then sapien is like, knowledge. Sapienza means knowledge. And that's the word for science. Scienceia comes from that as well. But it doesn't mean wisdom. And so, I've always had this side of me where I wanted to understand, is there

• 6:40Brian Keating?

  knowledge? Is there wisdom? I did a PragerU video about those ones. Which is more important? But for my goal is to really try to unify the two, knowledge with wisdom.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  I love that idea of buying a telescope as a gift, because I haven't thought about that. And I think many of us think, oh, what can we buy our kids that actually is gonna have a huge imprint on their lives? And I think many of us forget about the idea of buying them a telescope, and really the gravitas of looking at the entire world, and the perspective that you get when you understand that you're just a speckle, right?

• 7:12Brian Keating?

  And even just appreciating. I have my website, briankeating.com. I have a link to buyer's guide for telescopes. Some of them are $50. And I jokingly say, I'm a doctor, you know, kind of like Jill Biden's a doctor. But my one prescription, you know, to be a good parent, is get your kid a telescope. Because even here in the heart of Los Angeles, we can see the stars that matter, not on the Walk of Fame, not the Kardashians.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Even with all the light pollution and all of that.

• 7:36Brian Keating?

  Yeah. We can see the exact same things that my hero Galileo Galilei, who I spoke about in my Dialogue, a book club with Michael Knowles a few years back, he saw the same things. But the interesting thing about astronomy is that it's unique. You know, when you look through a microscope at a Or something like that. It's kind of abstract. You really don't know what you're looking at. But when you look at the moon through a tiny telescope from the heart of Los Angeles, New York City, Dubai, anywhere on earth, literally, you can see the exact same craters, mountains, lava plains that Galileo saw for the very first time in human history, 410 years ago or so, in 1609, 1610. When he did that, he had an emotional reaction.

• 8:18Brian Keating?

  It was awe, but it was also terror. It was fear. As I pointed out with Michael, he was with his eyes establishing that the moon was not different than the earth. It had mountains, it had rivers, it looked like rivers, all sorts of things on oceans, they called them mare. And so therefore, it wasn't this ethereal orb that had been handed down in perfect crystalline sphere. He realized that that was not true, and that terrified him. But nowadays, we can look through the telescope and not only see what Galileo saw, but feel what he felt. There's no way to do that, any other branch of science. You can't have a large hand drawn collider in your backyard and then detect the Higgs bosons. Oh, well, that's how it felt to detect it. Nobody, nobody could do that.

• 9:01Brian Keating?

  But you can do exactly what Galileo did for $50, and you can do it for your kid. And he or she may become a scientist, or maybe they're not, they won't, but they'll experience the wonder, the beauty, and the fascination and awe of exploring the universe.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  Fun, fun idea. There's a story that you share, those of us who know you well, know about your imposter syndrome story, which I can relate to in so many ways. I pinch myself, how am I here, right? How do I get to sit with such interesting people and ask any question I want? Including the really hard questions with a smile. And so I'd love for you to share this story with, with my audience because I just think it's so impactful.

• 9:37Brian Keating?

  So I, you know, grew up in public schools. I teach in a public school now, a public university. My whole life was, you know, kind of ordinary. It was not like seemingly that I'd be destined to, to work on projects with collaborators and, and teach at the highest echelons of academia. But, you know, as a kid, I just kind of followed this, this, you know, desire, this dream to, you know, just explore more about the universe. That's all I wanted to do. That's all I was really good at. You know, I joke, I'm now in forty ninth grade or something like that. Like, I haven't left school since I was four years old. And, you know, and it's just been a complete joy to have this life of the mind. But throughout it, I've met, you know, the higher you go, the more people

• 10:17Brian Keating?

  that you meet that are just in such excess of your brain capacity, that they almost seem like they're on another, from another planet or another species. So I've talked to twenty two Nobel Prize winners in my, on my podcast, Into the Impossible. And some of them you can really relate to. But when you're in a room like that, or you're at an Ivy League institution, where I went for graduate school, it is extremely intimidating and to be there. But the wonderful thing that I've learned along the way, is that not only, you know, is it normal, but if you don't have the imposter syndrome, you might be doing something wrong. I talked to a man named Barry Barish, also lives here in Los Angeles. He won the Nobel Prize for detecting shudders and

• 10:58Brian Keating?

  ripples in the fabric of space and time via the collision of two black holes, two black holes. But imagine each one is thirty times more massive than our sun. Imagine something thirty times the mass of our sun, and two of them, and they crashed together a billion years ago, a billion light years away from Earth. We don't know exactly what galaxy it was. It was far, far away. And I shouldn't put these back. That's, that's, yeah, that's not, that's not hygienic. And he detected them. He won the Nobel Prize in twenty seventeen. He goes to Stockholm. He meets the king of Sweden. He eats a reindeer buffet. He does all these things. And then, at the end, he gets this giant gold medal, and he gets a fraction of a million dollars. That's

• 11:41Brian Keating?

  his share of winning the Nobel Prize. And he says, they make you sign a book, a ledger, that says, just like when I check in here, that I received what I was supposed to receive, and so I'm not going to come back and ask for more money, or ask for my bigger gold medal. He said, I looked through the book, because I'm a curious man, I'm a scientist. So I looked through the book. Who signed it last year? Who signed it two years ago? And he saw Albert Einstein's He said, my heart sank. He said, I have no right to even be in the same universe as Albert Einstein, let alone have my name next to his in a book for all time. And I told him, Barry, because I had investigated the imposter syndrome, having suffered from it for so long. I said, Barry, you're suffering the imposter syndrome. But here's the good news. Einstein had the imposter syndrome. He said, you've got to be kidding me. I said,

• 12:22Brian Keating?

  no, he wrote about Isaac Newton as being not only the greatest scientist of all time, but the greatest contributor to Western civilization of all time. And Barry Barr said, wow, that's wonderful. And I said, but that's not all. Because guess what? Newton had the imposter syndrome. Now, Newton was an arrogant, some called him an SOB. He was a really tough character. And he said, I said, Barry, Newton had the imposter syndrome. He felt that he failed to live up to his hero, his idol, Jesus Christ. So much so that he tried to emulate Jesus. He couldn't, you know, turn loaves into fishes and water into wine, but he could die a virgin. Apparently, he did. And his personality probably helped out there, too. But, but the bottom line was, all of us have it. It's natural. It's

• 13:06Brian Keating?

  normal. And sometimes it's a guide to the fact that you're on the right track.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a good thing. I mean, a healthy dose of humility is so important. What was it like almost winning the prize and then not winning the Nobel Prize? How does it even work? I mean, some of us are so removed from it that we hear about it. But maybe you could just explain this to us.

• 13:28Brian Keating?

  Yeah. So the Nobel Prize is, I claim it's the greatest accolade on planet Earth, because it's such a rare group of individuals that have won it. There's, there's only a few, maybe 100 people that are living today that have won it. And it's given out to the greatest accomplishment. It's brought about by Alfred Nobel, who was the inventor of dynamite. He wanted to rehabilitate his image because he was, you know, considered to be one of the greatest arms merchants and dealers of death. He was called the merchant of death, actually, during his lifetime. And so he wanted to rehab his, his image. He didn't have kids. He wasn't married. And he endowed his entire fortune from inventing dynamite, billions of dollars in today's dollars, to this prize. And the, the object of, of the prize was to Better mankind, to improve humanity.

• 14:14Brian Keating?

  And so in five different fields at the time, it was physics, chemistry, medicine, literature, and for peace, of course. Sure. He endowed these prizes to better humanity. And one of those is physics. So along the way, physics has come to incorporate astronomy, which is what I do. And in 2014, an experiment that I had created the predecessor of called BICEP, announced that we had discovered not only the Big Bang, which had already kind of won Nobel Prizes in the past, but what caused the Big Bang. And it was theorized that there was this hyperactive period of expansion in the extreme early universe, a trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second long only at the very beginning of time, at which we would have detected the shrapnel thereof.

• 14:56Brian Keating?

  If you can think about the Big Bang as an explosion, it's not really like that, but but for, you know, for common laypeople, we can describe it that way. And we detected what ignited the spark that lit off the Big Bang. And it turned out we didn't see that at all. And so spoiler alert, my book is called Losing the Nobel Prize, not Winning the Nobel Prize, my first book. And that discovery was really, you know, on the precipice. Immediately after we announced it, the greatest minds in the in the world were saying we deserved a Nobel Prize. Within, you know, a few months, maybe six months, it was discovered that we hadn't seen the beginning of time. What we had seen were was an imposter, was basically a masquerading signal that looked like exactly what we wanted to see, which is always very dangerous. When you go to look for something, rather than discovering it serendipitously, you're

• 15:41Brian Keating?

  prone to what's called confirmation bias. You see what you want to see. And we basically, instead of detecting the Big Bang, we detected what I call cosmic schmutz. Basically, there's dust in our galaxy, not in the universe, but in the galaxy, that mimics and reproduced what the signal would have been if we did detect it. So we didn't win the Nobel Prize. We detected this this imposter signal, which is really like these meteorites here.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 16:36Brian Keating?

  Which I'm giving to you. This is a gift. So this is older than our sun. This is actually the material that was present in our solar system 4.5 billion years ago.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Pretty dense.

• 16:46Brian Keating?

  It's very dense. It's very magnetic. It's made of cobalt, nickel, iron, all sorts of trace elements. Some people speculate that meteorites may have been the seed for life on Earth even. We'll talk about that later, maybe. But the, but if you imagine shrinking that down to like a little particle of dust, and there's trillions and trillions of tons of this dust in our galaxy alone. And what happened was the magnetic field of our galaxy caused this signal to be present, which was basically this imposter that tricked us into believing we saw what we wanted to see.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Where's this from?

• 17:16Brian Keating?

  So this one fell in Argentina. I should say, I give them out on my website, as I mentioned before, to, you know, a couple of lucky winners. I give them to every student, by the way, who has an EDU email address in the US. And these meteorites fell, they're older than the solar system itself. They come from a previous solar system that existed here. The universe is, you know, here in LA, right? You've got like, what, six different recycling bins? You have paper, plastic, you know, regular trash, compost, edible, whatever. And the stars in our galaxy are the ultimate recycling bins. They take material that was present from pre-existing material. Usually it was hydrogen, just the most simple element in the periodic table. They turn that into helium. Helium means sun, or it's how we got the name Helios from the element helium.

• 18:01Brian Keating?

  And stars take that. They make heavier and heavier things. They make carbon, nitrogen, oxygen. Eventually, they try to make iron, fusing it together. Nuclear fusion reactor is what a star is. They can't make, they can make iron, but it's so dense, it takes so much energy, that there's not enough pressure to keep the star kind of inflated, and it collapses. Then it explodes, and it sprays out into the universe, everything that it just made, which is mostly iron, cobalt, nickel, and stuff like that. So the universe is polluted with that material, and then that material gets recycled again into planets, into the core of the Earth is made of iron, the exact same type of iron. And guess what? The blood in your body has hemoglobin. That hemoglobin has iron inside of it that came from the same star that produced this and died four and a half billion years ago.

• 18:45Brian Keating?

  So we are literally star stuff. We are made of the material of stars.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 18:49Brian Keating?

  And that's just one of the many ways that the universe is so fascinating and connected to us, and we never even realize it. That the hydrogen in this water came from the Big Bang, and eventually made a star, which made a meteorite, which made the blood also in your body, and that you pass on to your kids and you got from your parents. It's incredible.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  I know that you are a God-fearing person, that you believe in God, which not many scientists, especially at the university system in California, are God-fearing. So I'm assuming that you're somewhat of a rare gem there. I'm curious, how do you reconcile that? How do you, you talk about the Big Bang, I think about the seven days of creation. How do you reconcile the biblical narrative of the seven days of creation and the Big Bang from a scientific, not from a necessarily theological perspective?

• 19:38Brian Keating?

  Yeah, so I want to just make one small correction. So I never say I believe in God. Also, I never say I believe in gravity if I take another one of these things and I don't eat it. Like, I don't have to say I believe in gravity when I drop this delightful piece of dark matter. I don't have to believe in it, I have evidence for it. And there's evidence that could change if there was something called anti-gravity, right? So scientists should follow the evidence where evidence leads to. So saying I believe in God, first of all, I think is a little bit of a chutzpah, like God needs me, Ryan Keating to believe in Him, and like, attaboy, God. You know, I feel it's a little too anthropomorphized. I don't like that conception. I believe the Jews ultimately, and I'm Jewish, should seek

• 20:21Brian Keating?

  truth and should seek avenues to receive the permission to accept the possibility that evidence can exist for God. So I actually call myself a strict orthodox agnostic. So not an atheist, I'm anti-atheist, if anything, but to say that there's, you know, that the way that, you know, I act is what's most important to me. So I'm a behaviorist. I like to, so we practice Judaism, we practice the Sabbath. I don't work, I don't tweet, I don't podcast, I don't do research. I observe it strictly. I don't, you know, we keep kosher, you know, we obey these, I go to temple, et cetera, et cetera. But for me, the beauty

• 21:03Brian Keating?

  of, you know, the existence, the potential existence of God is the seeking. You know, it's the search for the existence and evidence to prove His existence.

• 21:15Brian Keating?

  In my books and in my writings and teachings and on this frame, I do like to approach it scientifically and ask questions like, what is the scientific evidence for God? Is there a consonance between, say, the Torah Genesis 1:1 description of what the universe looked like?

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Is there?

• 21:33Brian Keating?

  It's very unusual, right? Because it seems, certainly seems like it does. But did you know for thousands of years, people had this cognitive dissonance? They believed, even Einstein, probably the greatest mind who ever lived, despite what he said about Newton, he believed that the universe is eternal. And in fact, he couldn't get away from it, so much so that he ruined one of his, one of his biggest accomplishments called general relativity. He added in a fudge factor that would prevent the universe from changing in time. Because if it changed in time, well, then we wouldn't be here to observe it. So that's what he thought. They called it later his biggest blunder. And I always joke, it's too bad because he could have had a good career. You know, he could have been famous.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Poor Einstein.

• 22:16Brian Keating?

  Poor Einstein, yeah. He turned down the presidency of Israel, I think, too. So in Einstein's conception, because for thousands of years, people didn't understand how it was possible for the universe to have a beginning because it looks static. Everything in the universe looks static, you know? There's a name for the things that do move in the sky. They're called planets. So here's another Greek lesson. I don't know much Greek, but I'm going to drop it all on you today, Marissa. Planet means wanderer, means something that moved planes. Planes wander, right? Plankton, plank, same root. They wander through the sea.

• 22:50Brian Keating?

  The word planet, so we gave names to the five things that you could see in antiquity. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. Those are the only things you could see with the naked eye. They named days after them, et cetera. But the reason I'm bringing this up is because there's so few of them that you could give them names versus the stars seem innumerable. There's so many stars, they don't seem to move. So to the eye, it's kind of like, you know, obvious that the universe is static and eternal. That's what people thought. And so from, you know, literally all of time, people thought the smartest minds, the universe is eternal. And until Hubble, not far from here, discovered on Mount Wilson in Los Angeles, the expansion of the universe. Well, you mentioned that earlier.

• 23:33Brian Keating?

  And that gave evidence for the first time, scientific evidence, that the universe was different yesterday than it is today and will be different tomorrow. It's getting bigger. Separation between these galaxies are moving apart at an ever-increasing speed, it turns out. Space is not getting bigger. It's not like an explosion, but the space between these objects is increasing with time. And so if you play the movie backwards, it's a natural conclusion. Eventually, you'll get to a day when all these objects were touching each other. And that became known as the Big Bang. It was really popularized by a Belgian Catholic priest named Le Maitre, George Le Maitre. And he came up with this idea and Einstein said, basically,

• 24:14Brian Keating?

  "Don't you dare. You're making an atrocious mistake. The universe is eternal." And Le Maitre was like, "No, I have great evidence for this, or we have great belief in it." And then Hubble found the evidence. So why do I bring this up? Because they, if you asked before, 1929, and you said, "What's the scientific evidence that there was a genesis event?", there would have been none. So science's job is to change with time and to be disproven. My greatest hope is that what my students do is prove me wrong. Because if I'm just the final word, like Einstein wasn't the final word, Newton wasn't the final word, Galileo wasn't the... That's not what science is about.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  No room for discovery.

• 24:51Brian Keating?

  But Torah is, right? Or the Bible is, right? The Bible's ineffable and earned. God is infallible. You're not going to change, you know, what happened in the Torah, in the Bible, whatever you want to call it. You're not going to change that. There's things that are permanently useful and applicable and true. And then there are things that were provisional, because tomorrow we could discover that gravity, when I drop this thing, goes up. It literally could happen. But at a very high probability, you know, keep paying your taxes.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  Maybe in another, uh, in another place of the multi-universe.

• 25:19Brian Keating?

  Another podcast, right? So this is all to say that they're very different things. So is there scientific evidence? Is there a way to prove the existence of God? I think from the Bible, if you look at the Bible as a science book, you're going to be disappointed. Because that's not the point of that book. The Bible has 35,000 verses, what we call the Torah. Old Testament has 35,000 verses. Thirty-five of them are about Genesis, Adam and Eve, something that you could plausibly say is science, or maybe some predictions, or evidence, or hypotheses. And that's 0.1%, that's one out of 1,000. So if you pick up this book, you know, and this book is about my life lessons, and study

• 26:00Brian Keating?

  habits, and tactics, and tricks to become a better thinker, and collaborator, and scientist. And you pick this up, and it's called, you know, Lessons From Nobel Prize Winners. But you picked it up, and there's one page, and it's about Nobel Prize winners. And then there's 999 pages about the history of the National Basketball Association. You feel like, this book is not really about that. Like, very similar to the Torah. The Torah is not a science book. It does things explicitly, and it's brilliant in what it does. And if anything, only something supernatural could have written it, if you look at it. I had a lot of debates with people like Sam Harris about this, and arrogance of scientists, and secular people.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  So what is your way of, what is your short way of clarifying your opinion that the Torah is from God, or is a supernatural product?

• 26:50Brian Keating?

  Because the fruits of it, and the evidence that it produces, the lifestyle, the people, the habits, the existence of Jews, the thriving of the state of Israel, despite all the attempts. The greatest gift, when I look at it, is my Jewish children. When you look at how improbable it is, like, think about all the mechanized attempts to exterminate Jewish children throughout thousands of years, from Pharaoh before, up until now, October 7th, and beyond. It's nothing short of miraculous. And that's why the Jewish children are always targeted. When I look at that, when I look at the, what the Torah tells, in my first book, I talk about the Fifth Commandment.

• 27:33Brian Keating?

  It's the only commandment in the whole Torah, or, there's actually two commandments. There's two commandments in the whole Torah, we believe, as Jews, there's 613 mitzvot commandments. And there's only two that give a reward for what the action will lead to. Like, you eat kosher, it's not like, oh, you're gonna, you know, grow big biceps, or something like that. It doesn't say that. The Fifth Commandment says, "Honor your mother, and your parent, and your father, so that your days may be long on this earth."

• 27:59Brian Keating?

  And what does that have like, what does that mean? You're gonna live long if you honor your parents, you're gonna die young if you don't. So I talk about this in my first book. I had a very difficult relationship with my father, who passed away 20 years ago almost now. But in his last days, even though he had abandoned me as a child, I still honored him because the Torah told me to. Like, that was the only reason I would do it. He was really a difficult person of my life, growing up, caused me a lot of pain. But because I was committed to do this, I do believe that A, my children would see this side of how their father acted with appropriate, you know, concern and attention, honoring his father, who wasn't really, you know, fully deserved of it, maybe you could argue.

• 28:40Brian Keating?

  So maybe I say in my book, it has, I don't know, hopefully I'll live a long life to 120, as they say. But, but it's given me more life in my days, even if not days of my life. And so it's a beautiful thing. It's the Torah is, is more to me, it's more an instruction manual. You know, when you get a telescope or something, it comes with an instruction manual. How, how do you know how to use your new, you know, brand new camera, your new iPhone? You need some kind of instruction, whether somebody shows you or, but to have a life, like to, to live your life without any kind of guideline, framework or what whatsoever, it's, it's seems to me ludicrous. So the Torah to me in that sense, and the more that I practice it, and the more that I see my children raised with it,

• 29:25Brian Keating?

  then I see, come to see the truth in how it can apply to my life. Not as a science book, though. I never looked to it as a science book. I think that's a mistake. And I think that's what causes controversy and people really get upset about it. But I don't look at it as a science book because I think God isn't telling us it's not a science book from the very outset of it.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I could see how you would explain that the Torah or the Old Testament is a manual for life, right? It explains human nature, it explains relationships, gives amazing advice on, on everything, right? But to say that, that people would say, I would imagine in, in the comments below, okay, fine. But there are many other books that can give you great advice that are not Torah and are not considered divinely inspired or divinely written. And so, I mean, you're living by the laws of of the Torah. You're taking these laws very seriously. Are you taking these laws very seriously because you believe the book has really good advice? Or are you taking these laws very seriously because you believe that there is a Creator?

• 30:25Speaker 02

  And as a scientist who studies this, the, in some ways, I think of cosmologists as the philosophers of the universe, right? You're not, you're not an astronomer where you're just talking about the planets, right? You, you're talking, I mean, you study the philosophy of the universe, right? And so, how do you reconcile this philosophy of the universe and everything that you've studied? And everything that you've learned with the philosophy of whether God is the Creator? Whether God not only is the Creator of this universe, or possibly even the multi-universe, right? And in the originator of this big bang, possibly?

• 31:07Speaker 02

  How do you reconcile that with the actual Old Testament? The actual manual for life, right? We can agree that the Torah or the Old Testament is a manual for life. But how do you reconcile that it is divinely given? Divinely given by the Creator who possibly led to this big bang? That's the tough one, right?

• 31:29Brian Keating?

  Yeah, that's a very powerful question and one I haven't really been asked before. But, but I have thought about it many times. So, let me give you an analogy.

• 31:40Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 32:09Brian Keating?

  Let's say you hear there's a stock picker and he's so good at financial management and he's going to give you a tip, buy or sell Apple stock, or let's just say, you know, Apple stock, you're going to buy or sell it. He's just going to send you an email every week, you know, Monday morning, buy it or sell it. That's all he's going to do. And it either goes up or goes down. And, and he tells you this, and you get this email and he says, if I'm right, you keep paying me, you know, a dollar, or whatever it is, thousand dollars, million, whatever it is, and you could make a lot of money if you knew it was going to go up or down. And for 10 weeks, he tells you the same thing. And it's, it's correct. Buy, buy, buy, sell, buy, sell, buy, buy, sell, sell. He nails it every time. Every time, nails it. And you're like, oh, my God, he did this 10 times in a row.

• 32:52Brian Keating?

  Of course, I'm going to give him like a million, a billion, I'm just going to keep following this guy, right? What you don't know is that he's told a thousand people this, right? And so it turns out, you take the number two and you raise it to the 10th power, so 10 weeks in a row, and he's randomly sending out these things, yes, buy or sell, every, there'll be one person that had continuous streak, it's like flipping 10 coins, knowing the pattern of 10 coins, right? So he, he didn't know the future, but he's just, you were just one of a huge sample that happened to apply to, okay? So now you know those odds, and it's actually completely probable and expected even that that would happen to you. So he's not magical, he doesn't know the future. But what if he did that for everybody? And what if he was never wrong? Or what if, like, it was so convincingly, all the different

• 33:34Brian Keating?

  pieces of evidence? And what if, like, he had this notion, and he had this understanding, not just of like, what you should do with your money, how you should be with your kids, your partner, how you should, you know, vote, how you should, like, and just had this, this blueprint. And it was stunningly accurate, but it wasn't just you, because you could tell your friend, like, oh, I got 10 picks in a row. And your friend would say, oh, I only got seven in a row, from the same guy. But you look at it, and you see, well, there's a, there's a phrase in the Talmud, the signature of God is truth, right? So you have to look for what's true. But that doesn't mean you read into things to find evidence to support the conclusion that you're trying to draw. What is that? That's confirmation bias. So I don't look to the Torah to say, like, well, today I kept Shabbos, or the Sabbath, and I didn't work, and like, my kids were nice to me, or they didn't get bullied, you know,

• 34:19Brian Keating?

  whatever. I don't look at him as Dennis used to call it, celestial butler. I actually have a different relationship. I see that there's a global, you know, there's, there's almost more power in the fact that it applies to so many people, rather than it just applies to me. I feel like that can be... A little bit narcissistic of me to to think that way like God is real again. Does he care that I believe in him? I mean, attaboy, you know? And so the way that I approach it is to look for ways that are incontrovertible that could have been different. Let me give you an example. You and I see the beautiful studio, these beautiful candies, the cover of my book. We see color vision. Ninety nine percent of animals don't have color vision. Now, do we need color vision to live? Well, tigers get along pretty well without colored vision.

• 35:05Brian Keating?

  Right? And I mean, that's why zebras are black and white. They don't have red and green stripes because most animals only see in black and white. Why do we see in color? It helps. It's another dimension. It gives us pleasure. Why do we taste? And why do we have more than one type of taste? Like, we just eat, you know, sugar water because there's a panoply of different, a spectrum of different experiences that we're meant to have. Now, why is that evolutionary? It makes no sense. There's no reason, as I said, tigers do pretty well as a predator, much better than us. Without color vision, why don't? Why don't we have black and white? There must be something different about human beings. The fact that there's so many different species of animals and apes and primates and whatever you want to say, there's only one type of human. These are beautiful things. Again, they're not proving. I can't. As a scientist, I can't prove the existence of God.

• 35:48Brian Keating?

  So when I say I believe in something and I can't prove it, right? If you could prove it, would you get credit, so to speak, for believing in? I mean, word in Hebrew for for faith is amuna, right? Which is where we get the word amen from. Like, it is true. But it's not proof. That's a different word, I assume. So therefore, my approach is to look for the existence of God throughout the various ways that could be revealed that I, my tiny brain, can comprehend and come to appreciate the blessings that we have. Give me gratitude for my existence. And then that leads to good, which is where we get the word good comes from God. So I think that's always going to be a question. I'm never gonna, as I said, I'm sorry to disappoint. I'm never gonna say, here's proof of God. I think that's

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Well, I guess as a scientist who studies the multi-universe, which is something that is so very difficult to fully grapple with, right? You have to be okay with uncertainty, right? By the way, you should read the book of Revelation now because when you talk about the apple example of like another proof and another proof and another proof and another proof. If you're one who likes that, I mean, you might appreciate reading, reading.

• 36:51Brian Keating?

  I was an altar boy in my previous.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Okay, so you're familiar with it. Let's talk about some more controversial stuff because, as I mentioned at the beginning of our little chat. One would have thought that sitting and talking about astronomy and cosmology is an easy thing to chat about, that people wouldn't get that emotional about, or upset about, or even religious about, in some ways. It seems like there is a new dimension to conversations about the universe, and the multiverse, and even just American accomplishments, when it comes to moon landing, or UFOs. And so, let's start with the most controversial one, and that is UFOs. So, you have studied this for a very long time. I've watched you

• 37:36Speaker 02

  debate Joe Rogan a couple of years ago on his show, saying, "Your claim is that it is very unlikely that we've had visits from outside of our planet." It's been a couple of years. Do you still stand by that? Do you still believe that we have not had any visitors on planet Earth?

• 37:56Brian Keating?

  Yes, I still subscribe to that. I'll never say, as a scientist, the probability is zero, aliens don't exist. The arguments are very compelling, right? There are, we know, in our solar system, there's eight planets. We know that in our galaxy, there's 200 billion stars, more or less like the sun, it's very, you know, sort of common star. Each one of those could have 10 to 100 planets around it, and there might be a trillion or more galaxies, each with 200-

• 38:26Speaker 02

  A trillion galaxies. Your brain just can't even like-

• 38:28Brian Keating?

  So the number is like this-

• 38:29Speaker 02

  Imagine how teeny we are.

• 38:30Brian Keating?

  Think about this number. So the number 10, is one with a zero. Now imagine, the number of planets in the observable universe is a one with 24 zeros, okay? So, million, million, million, million, or a trillion, trillion, okay? It's literally, these are astronomical numbers, right? So you guys, "Oh, of course, there's room for, you know, there's gotta be life out there somewhere." Well, let's just restrict ourselves to our galaxy, right? So there's 200 billion stars, maybe there's a trillion planets, you know, that could harbor life, maybe. That is a tiny number, when you compare it to infinity. So what normally happens, is people, they take a huge number, they multiply it by a small number, and that gets a big number, which is, so the huge number is the number of planets. The small number is the probability that each planet has, let's say it's one in a thousand.

• 39:16Brian Keating?

  We still have, you know, ten to the eight, uh, ten to the twenty first, so a million, million, million, million, uh, individual planets with life on them in the universe. But the problem is that number could be as low as zero. It could actually be zero. The probability of life could be zero. We just don't know it. Or it could be, you know, as high as, you know, a very small number. It's still a very small number. We know that we haven't, we've searched stars within, you know, a hundred light years of Earth and other words, stars. Uh, let me take one step back. Light travels at the fastest speed that ever that information can probably get at, one hundred eighty six thousand miles per second. So fast that the sun is ninety three million miles away from Earth. That light takes eight minutes to get here.

• 40:01Brian Keating?

  For all we know, the sun could have disappeared, you know, seven minutes ago, and we won't find out for another minute, you know, God forbid. But, but that could happen because nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. At that limit, the closest star traveling at the speed of light is four years travel time away. And there's no way the fastest earthlings or earth technology has ever gotten is one one thousandth of that speed. So it would take four thousand years to get to the nearest star traveling on a SpaceX rocket. Okay? The universe is enormous. That's the closest star. So that star is just finding out now that Joe Biden became president in twenty twenty, okay, or twenty, yeah, end of twenty twenty. So that star's four plus years away, uh, proxima centuri.

• 40:44Brian Keating?

  As you go out farther and farther, you come to the limit of where another star system could have received a radio broadcast from Earth. Because the very first radio broadcast were in nineteen thirties, right? So call it a hundred light years. That means that the nearest stars within a hundred light years of us could have found out that, you know, Prager University would exist someday. And, and that there was Jesse Owens won the nineteen thirty six Olympic gold medal, a hundred meter relay race. So they're just finding out about it now. We've searched every star within that region. There's a lot of them. No, that doesn't prove anything. That doesn't prove that, you know, one hundred and one light years away, there's not a star that has a planet that has life.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  I mean, or that one of these planets hasn't been searched thoroughly. Enough, right? Maybe we missed something. Maybe we landed in their valley of the dead bones area.

• 41:29Brian Keating?

  That's absolutely true, or they don't have technology, or that they did exist. They had a powerful civilization with, you know, everything you could imagine, but they killed each other, right? So there's something called the Drake equation, which parameterizes what's needed to have life in the universe that's technological. Don't forget, if there was a slime microbe on Neptune, we wouldn't know about it right now because it has no technological way to communicate with us. So technology is advanced. Imagine there was like billions of dolphins swimming around Proxima Centauri's planet. You'd never know about it because they don't have technology.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:00Brian Keating?

  So we typically use technology, but that's another form of confirmation bias, right? Who says they'll use the same, you know, maybe they use gravity to communicate instead of radio.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Also, maybe they will travel faster than how we have figured out to travel, right? So we are saying that we can't, right?

• 42:16Brian Keating?

  Really controversial subjects. You mentioned that. You wouldn't think these debates would get so. So what you're bringing up now is a concept related to how you could travel faster than the speed of light. And what typically people will say is, well, aliens, like you just said, Marissa.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Maybe they could.

• 42:32Brian Keating?

  Maybe they have advanced technology. So, okay, so now you're postulating like two levels, orders of magnitude beyond what we are capable. And that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but that's where it does kind of start to border on either, it's called eschatology, where you know, like think about like how things end or theology, like aliens are almost in that sense. Now they're like gods because to like a chimpanzee or something, we're like a god, but we know we're not gods.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Maybe they're not like gods. Maybe they're just scientifically more sophisticated and capable than we are for whatever reason.

• 43:05Brian Keating?

  Right. But according to our laws of physics, as we understand them now, the fastest speed limit, the ultimate speed limit, is set by the speed of light. So to get here faster, to communicate faster, again, we have no evidence for that. We also have no evidence that they've been here. We, and that's fine. We don't have evidence even of life outside of Earth right now. I mean, At the very existence of a hyper advanced technology that would have the capability to come here, as people are testifying, they're testifying in Congress, eyewitness reports seen by pilots, by journalists, by all sorts of people, even a friend of mine at Harvard, Avi Loeb, who has postulated that there's an object that's coming towards, close to

• 43:47Brian Keating?

  the earth in about a month, and that is, has some probability greater than zero to be extraterrestrial technology, based on its direction that it's heading towards us, its composition, its brightness, its size, and he's, you know, he's done a lot of work on this, and he's an eminent Harvard scientist with-

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Does Avi Loeb know where it's possibly coming from?

• 44:08Brian Keating?

  Doesn't know where, it's hard to tell where it's coming from, it's like, imagine like some bees are coming towards you, like, you know the hive that they're coming from, but you don't know exactly, like, where, like, which part, which honeycomb cell it came from, so, no, he doesn't exactly where it's coming from, but he knows exactly where it's going to, and he's worried, and he's put out this, this clarion, I had a live debate with him and a very prominent skeptic named Michael Shermer, who doesn't believe, he thinks it's completely natural-

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Please tell me it's not landing in Jerusalem.

• 44:35Brian Keating?

  No, that's right.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  Too soon to joke about that?

• 44:38Brian Keating?

  That's right, no, it's not, well, Iron Dome can take care of it, I think they're safe, so, these are really fascinating questions, what happens, though, is people do become politicized tribal, like, you're suppressing this information, you're a gatekeeper, you're just a shill for NASA, and you're grifting, you know, aliens exist, and we're hiding in front, and it is, to give these, you know, UFO true believers, I call them, to give them credit, you know, there has been an awful lot of secrecy, there's been a lot of government expert suppression, as we know-

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Why, why would the government suppress any sort of information about UFOs, whether they exist or not exist, what's the purpose?

• 45:15Brian Keating?

  We have many examples throughout history, Giordano Bruno, he was an astronomer, he was actually a Catholic priest, 1600, he was burned at the stake, he claimed that every star that you could see was another world, like the earth, and it could be another planet, and there could be people there, the Catholic Church, I know it, again, you know, I haven't been an altar boy in 40 plus years- But they believed that it was impossible for Jesus to have had an opportunity to visit more than the earth and he obviously did it, did his works and miracles on earth, right? So he had no opportunity. So that was heretical. And Galileo, just a few decades later, he made a postulate that the, that the sun was the center of the entire universe, which was our solar system, not the earth, that went against the Bible.

• 45:59Brian Keating?

  Now, why did they kill these people or in Galileo's case imprison him for, for the remainder of his life? Because these notions were disruptive. They're potentially anarchic. They, they could have led to mass rebellion. And, and at the time, they believed in complete and utter censorship. Nowadays, we don't have censorship by an index in the Catholic Church, but what's the next most powerful entity, probably more powerful than the church was at the time? And that's the US government and other governments.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  How does the government keep control over Americans, let's say, if there's no information about UFOs? What, what is the incentive? I understand the incentive with Galileo. They wanted the church to be the center of, of everything. And if you, if you deny or challenge the church, that means lack of control. How does the United States keep Americans under control by not knowing about UFOs? If they do exist?

• 46:56Brian Keating?

  So how? I'll explain in a minute.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Also, why is the truth insecure?

• 47:01Brian Keating?

  That's right.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  It should never be insecure. If they have nothing to hide, what, what is their, what is the purpose of creating secrecy around it?

• 47:07Brian Keating?

  Okay.

• 47:08Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 47:37Brian Keating?

  So we're not far from where Independence Day was filmed. You know, look at any of the movies about alien encounters. Look at any of the encounters with primitive civilizations and advanced Western civilizations throughout history. Look in our country, the despicable way America treated Native American populations, both intentionally and unintentionally, the spread of disease. That wasn't intentional, but it didn't happen and killed many, many Native Americans. Happened in every culture on earth. I'm not singling out America as it was being uniquely bad or something stupid like that. But encounters with advanced civilizations and primitive civilizations would inevitably lead to mass devastation. There's almost no way that it would turn out to be completely benevolent unless they're

• 48:19Brian Keating?

  truly godlike, in which case that's, you know, a whole other podcast we can talk about. But so the theory, the idea, the hypothesis that UFO believers postulate is that we are being in contact, we have been in contact, we not only have spacecraft, technology, but we have biological material, they're called. They don't say pilots or bodies, they call it biologic material. This is a famous Air Force service member named David Grush testified on the existence of craft and biological specimens within it. So why would they suppress it? Because of mass hysteria that might be unleashed if we were encountering a new civilization that is likely to destroy, you know, Earth and not just Americans.

• 49:03Brian Keating?

  So this would be a threat, an existential threat to humanity.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  The government seems to have no issue with creating mass hysteria on a regular basis. We just went through COVID, that was mass hysteria.

• 49:12Brian Keating?

  So, so one of the things that is dangerous to do is to postulate that, you know, that from one thing, we can extrapolate many different things. Like, for example, yes, COVID was a complete and utter disaster. Were there people that were, that were, you know, threatened and their lives were ultimately taken by COVID? Of course there were. Did the vaccine, the Trump vaccine, Operation Warp Speed, did that save millions of lives? Yes, it did. Did it also have complications? So the problem, and you and I talked about this off camera, is when there's ambiguity. The human mind hates ambiguity. There's a Yiddish phrase that the guy who stands in the middle of the street gets hit from both sides.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:54Brian Keating?

  Right? So when you try to do ambiguous-

• 49:56Speaker 02

  It feels like PragerU, we sit in the middle of the street, we get hit from all sides.

• 49:59Brian Keating?

  Exactly. So, um, so the notion that you could say exclusively good or exclusively bad. Now, the problem that I see with their argument that the government is suppressing things to avoid mass hysteria is that it assumes incredible competency by the US government, which, which I would say COVID revealed is not entirely true. Right? So there were experts. There are people like my friend, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, who's now the director of the National Institute of Health, who was clarion call suppressed, you know, and targeted by Fauci and Collins, you know, to make him seem, and they called him a fringe epidemiologist. They, they ruined his life and, and almost ruined his career. Thank God. He's appointed now and doing great work. But the point is, you can have experts and we shouldn't have

• 50:40Brian Keating?

  experts. We should have consensus because then if you don't have it and you abandon science, society's at risk. And so you have to trust, but you also verify. And a good scientist should always be skeptical. Richard Feynman, as I said in my second or third PragerU video, follow the science. It's called tongue in cheek, right? Um, and that was made during the COVID era. I got a lot of flack.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. You were like, don't believe experts. Now we believe no experts.

• 51:05Brian Keating?

  So Richard Feynman, Nobel laureate, Caltech, not far from here. He said, "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." If Einstein thought, well, Newton's a smart guy. He's my hero. He's smart. He's an expert. I'm not gonna doubt him. We never would have had relativity. If Einstein was the last word and he said the universe is eternal, we'd never have the Big Bang. So you have to trust, but you have to verify. And that's what a good scientist should do.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I think the example of, of what happened with the COVID lockdowns is a good one because while the US government and the entire world was trying to suppress information, we all knew plenty of really credible scientists who were speaking the truth about COVID. I mean, Dr. Scott Atlas, several ones. Do you feel like in the case of UFOs, there are people who are really credible, who are able to prove that not only is there a highly technological, uh, existence somewhere in the multi-universe? Uh, not only do they exist, but they were able to actually make it to planet Earth. Not only were they able to make it to planet Earth, but the US government and all the

• 52:11Speaker 02

  governments around the world have been able to suppress the information and hide it.

• 52:16Brian Keating?

  So that would take, you know, an incredible conspiracy. Don't forget, when you have a conspiracy like, you know, JFK or Epstein files or whatever, you have a conspiracy. Conspiracy means con together, breathing, spire, respiration, right? It means we're whispering, we're telling Marissa, we're gonna get this, you know, thing about, you know, the arrival, you know, I don't know, the Young Turks or whatever, we're gonna do something, right? It means that you have to do it. Now, it would also have to be like, I would have to cover it up and conceal it from my wife and my kids and my friends and my coworkers. The conspiracy network grows exponentially out from a single person. So some of the claims are that there was a craft that crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, and that they still have bodies there and it's, you know, part of the

• 52:58Brian Keating?

  theme of the movie Independence Day, you can see it. And these would be incredible conspiracies to be maintained over decades. Now, because the human mind hates ambiguity, when ambiguity is present, it releases dopamine because it's curiosity. Curiosity feels really good. A friend of mine been on the podcast, he's a psychotherapist at Brown University, he has a way of overcoming smoking, his name is Judd Brewer, and overcoming eating disorders and all that. And it's always like, when you're hungry, you're about to reach for the cigarette, or you're about to reach for the Milk Dud. Why am I hungry? Am I really hungry? Let's explore this. Because curiosity is also a form of dopamine release. So when you're curious about things, because they're ambiguous, it gives

• 53:42Brian Keating?

  you a dopamine hit. Well, let's say there are aliens, that would be amazing. But let's say they're not telling us about aliens. I'm even more curious, I'm being conspired against. All these things wrapped together. Again, good scientists should never say it's impossible.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  It almost has like this religious effect.

• 53:56Brian Keating?

  It absolutely does. My friend Michael Shermer has, you know, Shermer's Law, which is that any sufficiently advanced alien is indistinguishable from God. Because they would have to do that. As you said, like, you were kind of casual about it. You're like, well, maybe they can go faster. That's an enormous statement. Like, you would be like 100 Nobel Prizes if you could prove that that was true. I mean, that's one of the most thoroughly tested things that we know as scientists on Earth, is that the speed of light is the hardest limit that is known to humanity. And maybe it's a good thing, maybe it's a bad thing, but it is the way it is, as we know it. To violate this in the known universe, again, a good scientist will say, but you have to now layer on to these different things. You have to say, speed of light can be violated. The technology is here. It's being covered up. There aliens exist, which means life exists

• 54:37Brian Keating?

  on another planet. We haven't even gotten into how hard it is to make life, how hard it was to make conscious life on earth, from pure chemicals to then get to conscious people that can have a podcast conversation with wifi technology beaming it throughout the entire planet, to get to that level. And then you just talked about something that supersedes us by a hundred orders of magnitude. We have no evidence for any of that. Doesn't mean it's not possible, but you have to assess the individual probabilities and then come up with some framework to assess the evidence, but always, always update your confidence in your hypothesis. In other words, you get new evidence, it should cause you to reevaluate. You know, if we go to every single, if we go to the moon and just go everywhere on the moon and we find no life there, that doesn't prove there are no aliens in the universe,

• 55:20Brian Keating?

  but it proves there's no aliens on the moon at least. Now do that for every planet. Now do that for every star. In principle, that's possible. There's no law of physics says you can't do that, but we just haven't done that yet. But there's also no evidence for the positive either.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Okay, so Dr. Professor Keating.

• 55:35Brian Keating?

  Yes.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  The moon landing.

• 55:37Brian Keating?

  Yes.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Talk to me about the moon landing. This has become another very, very interesting conversation on the internet, mostly coming out of the United States, by the way. These are Americans who are saying that it's very likely.

• 55:49Brian Keating?

  Alien sightings, by the way. Americans make up 5% of the world's population, something like 45% of the sightings. Most of the sightings are around military bases, which is not surprising if they're done by military, or maybe they're a psychological operation, so-called psyops or black ops, or you know, skunk works that was built right here. The SR71 was built here. The F-117 Nighthawk was built in Burbank.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  So maybe people are seeing actually military operations, thinking that these are UFOs?

• 56:15Brian Keating?

  That is 100,000 times more likely than a UFO from another, you know, civilization or another dimension. Again, that doesn't prove one or the other, but we know about that. We also know about.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  Do people know that most of the sightings are around military bases? I feel like that's

• 56:27Brian Keating?

  They don't know that.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  Pretty significant.

• 56:29Brian Keating?

  Yeah, people, people are talking about that. Not only military base, but nuclear sites, apparently. A friend, Jesse Michaels, talks about this. Most of the. sightings come from nuclear bases. But then also, if you just do control, scientific, you know, you have a variable and you have a control. If you say, how often are UFOs claimed when the planet Venus is not visible from the earth? And UFO sightings go way down. So that means a lot of people are confusing Venus for another UFO or something like that. And it is, it's beautiful. And you look at Venus, it's a, you know, the goddess planet.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  And you're like, go back to fifth grade and understand the planets.

• 57:03Brian Keating?

  That's right.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, okay. The moon landing. Explain to me, just summarize this for me. It's honestly too hard for me to even wrap my head around it. What is the claim that America never made it to the moon? And why make that claim at all?

• 57:17Brian Keating?

  So this is

• 57:18Speaker 00

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• 57:47Brian Keating?

  This is one of the most depressing kind of encounters that I've had in the public communication of science on my podcast. It's not something that's debated at all. Like even in science, in academia, there are professors of physics, legitimate professors of physics, who believe that there are UFO craft and so forth that have been here. There's probably, less than five people that believe that we didn't go to the moon that have academic credentials. So it's like many, many times orders of magnitude lower, people that doubt the existence of the moon landing by expert scientists than believe that there are UFOs. Okay. But this has become so popular with pundits, with podcasters, two or three in particular, that seem to want to

• 58:32Brian Keating?

  deny not only the greatest accomplishment of America in the last hundred years, but probably the greatest technological, sociological, and cooperative endeavor of all humanity, leading up

• 58:46Brian Keating?

  Late nineteen nineteen hundreds. Okay. So the moon landing required hundreds of thousands of people working across almost a decade of time since Kennedy made the challenge to go to the moon. It revolved around three different branches of of the government, you know, from the military to public science, private science, and then congressional approval and fun. It was incredible accomplishment. There's nothing and never been anything like it, you know, before or since. And I think it's that and since thing that gets people. They'll they'll latch on to the fact that we went to the moon nineteen sixty nine, landed there famously in July twentieth nineteen sixty nine. And then we haven't been back since. I mean, they went until nineteen seventy three or four, and then they stopped. So fifty years have gone by. Okay, my whole life, basically,

• 59:30Brian Keating?

  we haven't been back to the moon. That's really weird. Don't things get easier with time? Don't computers get smaller, faster, cheaper? So this is weird. Like, this is this is strange. So maybe they lied to us about covid, so they lied to us about the moon landing. And you see it from one podcaster in particular, probably know her name, if I mentioned it. And she has on people routinely that attempt to denigrate along with other accomplishments like winning World War Two and and defeating Hitler.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  What is the purpose of denigrating this big achievement?

• 1:00:02Brian Keating?

  Well, one thing is that it gets a lot of engagement.

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  It's that dopamine hit that they know people get addicted to. Oh, my God, I'm part of the conspiracy theory.

• 1:00:12Brian Keating?

  And so and and some of it seems just plausible enough to to her and to her audience, for example, that, you know, okay, well, that is strange. We haven't been to the moon in fifty years. That is true. I mean, I'm not disputing that. That is true. So why is that? Okay.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Why? So what is your answer? Why have we been been back to the moon?

• 1:00:30Brian Keating?

  So I've been to Antarctica twice. I've been to the South Pole twice. It's the very bottom of the world. It's almost inaccessible nine months of the year. You can't even get in or out. There's only forty five people that are there right now as we're taping. It's still the winter coming up on on spring there. But but at that same time, it's a very remote place. So human beings first got to the South Pole in nineteen eleven. They reached the South Pole, and then they never and the Norwegian made it there first. His name was Amundsen. No Norwegian went back to the South Pole for eighty years.

• 1:01:05Brian Keating?

  Now, why is that? Well, the moon landing of the 1900s was getting to the South Pole. You know that no one at ever since set foot on Antarctica until the early 1900s. And it became like the space race. Why did they do it? For national pride, for looking for resources, for for the discovery, the challenge of doing it. The same reasons, why do we go to the moon? As Kennedy said, not because it's easy, because it's hard. You do hard things, you develop capabilities you previously never had. So the same could have been said by South Pole landing deniers if this podcaster existed in a 1940 or something like, why hasn't Norway been back? I'm just asking questions, Marissa.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  It's just not enough of a focus for somebody to do it because they're not the first anymore.

• 1:01:47Brian Keating?

  Right. And there's not the, exactly. Imagine if Neil Armstrong stepped out of the eagle and he stepped onto a Soviet flag, a Russian flag, right? It would have been the most humiliating, depressing thing in history, right? Because we spent so much money, so much time, and they were trying to get there. And we were in a battle for global supremacy in the 1960s. Same thing happened in 1910s. It was England, Norway, America to some extent. So it was a national pride to do that, to conquer another continent. I mean, there's only seven continents. So to get there in the moon, you know, some people think, oh, it should be another state or another continent. So exactly the same thing could have been said, but wasn't. So once you get there, it's, you know, the thrill is gone, so to speak, and the challenge. And you learn most of the interesting things by getting there the first.

• 1:02:29Brian Keating?

  Now, the reason that she claims that we haven't been there back is because we never went there in the first place. That's very different. She's saying we haven't been back because we never went there the first time. You can't go back if you never went there, right? And she uses these idiotic, you know, pseudoscientists that, you know, has provided evidence to her that there's, that it would be a death trap to go into space. Now, this is complete nonsense because we've sent astronauts not only to the moon, but to the Earth's orbit, where the exact same things would come into play. She's completely ignorant about that. I made a video about that, like this proving all the different myths that she and this other guy that she quotes has put forth. But ultimately, to answer your question, why are they doing it?

• 1:03:10Brian Keating?

  I think there's an urge to, you know, take on, you know, take on the myths and speak truth to power and just ask questions. But, you know, asking questions is sort of okay. But, you know, as I said, like if I said to her, you know, how many times did you drink alcohol while you were pregnant with your third child? Like, you know, I'm just asking questions to her, you know, like, I mean, it's not, it's not appropriate in that sense. Now, it's fine to ask questions.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  You're saying these questions are laced with an agenda and judgment.

• 1:03:37Brian Keating?

  There's always an agenda, right? If I was trying to take her down or say something about them, you know, I'm just asking questions. Why are you so defensive? You know, but, but it's not done in good faith.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  What about the claim that there, how is it possible to have footage from, from the moon if?

• 1:03:50Brian Keating?

  Yeah, they often say like, oh, the flag, the flag was like waving in the breeze, but there's no wind on the moon. So how did that work? So NASA knew that. So they put inside the flag wires to keep it suspended. Okay. But here's the greatest piece of proof. What was the country that we were in competition with to get to the moon first? We were Russia, the USSR. So they were trying to get there before us. So they actually sent a probe to get to the moon to crash into the moon on the same day that we went there. And a telescope on Earth in England happened to pick up the impact of that, of that craft hitting the moon while Neil Armstrong was walking around. Okay, that was on that day, the very day that we landed there. So we knew exactly then.

• 1:04:33Brian Keating?

  And subsequently to then, there have been people completely disconnected, they're not related to NASA, scientists, friends of mine. We studied the position of all the bodies in the universe, including the moon. Because for one thing, the moon is, is connected to the earth's gravity. It actually causes the tides, high tide, low tide on the earth. That's what causes, not the sun, not the rotation of the earth, but the moon's gravitational pull. It turns out you can measure properties of gravity and look for signs of what's called quantum gravity. If you can measure the position of the moon extremely accurately, but how do you do that? When Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were on the moon, they put mirrors on the moon that reflect light shine from the earth to bounce back to the, uh, from the earth back to the earth.

• 1:05:18Brian Keating?

  And we know the speed of light, I told you before. So if you measure the time that it takes for you to shoot out a book, a pulse of laser light till it comes back into your detector, you know, the position of the moon to less than the fingernail on your pinky. So this is incredible accomplishment. Why are they doing that? They're not doing that to prove the existence of the moon landing. They're doing that to study the effects of gravity. Every country on earth that's technological has done the same thing. They use the exact landers. Other probes have flown over all the lunar landing sites. They've not only seen the spacecraft there, which they also claim is impossible for even a spacecraft to go through. So they claim it would kill a human being to go through this radiation belt called the Van Allen belt. It was total nonsense. NASA has known about that for decades. In fact, NASA, the ultimate irony is that these podcasters, they say that it's, it's

• 1:06:03Brian Keating?

  too dangerous to get there. How do they know it's too dangerous? Because NASA did a study that showed that it potentially could be radiation exposure if you went there, if you did it the wrong way. So isn't that ironic? They're using NASA's data to refute NASA's.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  They like NASA when they like, they don't like NASA when they don't like NASA.

• 1:06:20Brian Keating?

  It's the theme today, confirmation bias.

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  Yes. Okay. So I know that you work a lot with telescopes and you're just in love with, you're my telescope man, right? I'm curious if you're now studying how AI can supercharge the telescopes because so much of what you're studying is what you're able to see.

• 1:06:36Brian Keating?

  That's right. Yeah. So that's a very good question. So AI and telescopes, that's kind of a peanut butter and chocolate, you know, it's just champagne and caviar, or whatever your analogy wants to be. It's such a perfect, you know, coupling and marriage of two different types of technology. One old and ancient, you know, 400 years ago, it was in the telescope was invented. And the telescope, as I said, is a time machine, but it's also kind of like a space machine because it mag, tella means distant, scope means to view. It means a distance viewer, but you're viewing things that happened in the past. I see you not instantaneously. Light takes about two nanoseconds to travel the distance across this table. In that time, you could have disappeared or whatever, something could have changed. It's not going to happen that much, but I'm seeing an earlier, younger version of you.

• 1:07:19Brian Keating?

  If you keep going back farther and farther in the room, I'm seeing things earlier and earlier. So not only are you seeing things that are different and far away, you're seeing them as they were when they were younger. So that allows you to time travel and space travel. So it's a magical thing. Now, there are so many objects, I already told you that there's a trillion trillion planets potentially in our entire universe. So to look at a trillion trillion, so let me put it this way. If you were to count just one, two, three, like and count one every second. Yeah. A million seconds is about two weeks. A billion seconds is about 31 years. And a trillion seconds is just an incredible number that we can't even comprehend. Thousand times bigger than 31 years, 31,000 years, a trillion seconds.

• 1:08:03Brian Keating?

  So imagine counting, now that's just one trillion. Now, a trillion trillion, you just cannot comprehend that. Now imagine you wanted to see all that data, the human mind couldn't comprehend it. No. We can collect the data, we can see these images and maybe you can put them on screen like the James Webb Space Telescope. I've seen incredible wonders and galaxies and distant things and stars that are so young, they just appeared right after the universe's birth. There's so many of them, we cannot process them. And so we use AI, we use computer algorithms to search for patterns and then surface the ones that are most interesting to us. And where those could really pay a lot of dividends is actually in the search for giant versions of this guy, this asteroid, this meteorite.

• 1:08:43Brian Keating?

  So this meteorite is a fragment of an asteroid that existed because the formation of our solar system happened four and a half billion years ago. This is just a tiny fragment of an asteroid. Again, you can get these on our website. These objects, if you imagine them the size of Los Angeles or even of California, some of them are huge, right? If they impact the earth, again, another theme from, from the movies, Deep Impact and, and what's the one with Bruce Willis? I just saw. I am so bad. Oh, yes. Arm again. Okay, of course. So bad, but so good. They go up there and they blow it up with a nuclear bomb. It's like the worst thing you could do. But there's over, there's something like a trillion of these objects. Of this size and much, much bigger. So they could actually end life on Earth. There's no way human beings can search them all.

• 1:09:28Brian Keating?

  So the Vera Rubin Telescope is located in Chile, not far from where our telescope called the Simons Observatory is in the Andes Mountains of South America. And they've been searching, they found in like a couple of hours, less than a day. They found 2,000 asteroids. That could potentially have, they could have been headed on a collision course for Earth. They found out that they're not. And they're going to find literally billions of them over the next 10 years. And some of those that they'll find inevitably will have potential encounter with the Earth. Not in, you know, the next few years. We know most of the asteroids that are on a collision course potentially for Earth. The nearest one that could pose a danger to a city if it happened to hit in the middle of a city. You know, is not expected to come within the next 20 years or something like that.

• 1:10:12Brian Keating?

  But what if they find something else that's far away or has some weird properties like this thing Avi Loeb is talking about? They're going to find thousands of those and some of those could prevent, could be prevent, we could prevent them by discovering them early like a cancer tumor, God forbid. You can discover early only with AI.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  Discover and do what?

• 1:10:28Brian Keating?

  You could potentially deflect them with different technologies. In extreme cases, maybe you would blow them up or something like that, but that makes millions of fragments of them. But the, some of the techniques, my friend Phil Lubin at UC Santa Barbara is working on a space telescope in reverse. So a telescope collects light, focuses it down. But if you put a light at the center of the telescope and shine it outwards, you get this blaster laser beam basically. And if you encountered an asteroid that was going to hit the Earth in 20 years, you could actually nudge it out of an orbit. That would be on a totally harmless orbit that would never hit the Earth. So he's working on technology like that.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  Wow, crazy. All right, final very big question.

• 1:11:08Brian Keating?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  If you could ask God a question.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  What would that question be?

• 1:11:21Brian Keating?

  I think, you know, it would be so hard. I couldn't ask just one. I'd have to ask a question within a question within a question as a podcaster. You know that, right? You have to ask multiple questions.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  But one more final question.

• 1:11:30Brian Keating?

  Just one final question. For me, you know, I would, I think, you know, the question of theodicy is ultimately the atheist best, you know, friend, right? To say, why do bad things happen to good people? You know, why does that happen? You know, we know how it happens. We know when it happens. There's a book, Kushner wrote that book, When Beth... But we don't ultimately know why. And so, you know, if God exists, I have to treat it as a provisional statement, subject to the scientific method and gathering of evidence, right? That would be kind of the, you know, the ultimate thing to ask.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  Like, as in why bad things happen to good people?

• 1:12:10Brian Keating?

  Yeah. Why does cancer, you know, exist? Why does the mosquito, Dennis used to say, although I answered that question for him once. I told him, why the mosquito? The mosquito actually was very powerful deterrent for the British in 1776. It actually killed a lot of them, malaria, and the Americans at the time were more immune to it. So without the mosquito, we might not have won our independence, which is, you know, as many people, Victor David Hanson called it, "The greatest things happened since the birth of Jesus." So I think that this, the mosquito has a purpose. So I wouldn't ask like that. I wouldn't even ask something scientific, because I think that's, you know, so limiting of what the fullness of the human experience is. There's so many things we can't understand.

• 1:12:53Brian Keating?

  But to have this concrete understanding, if you could understand it, why do, why do good things, I mean, which is more annoying to you? I mean, put on my podcaster, like, when something good happens to someone who's evil? Or when something bad happens to someone who's good? What affects you more?

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't, for me, it's not what affects me more. I think the true test of faith is to live with uncertainty. I believe that God wants us to be okay with uncertainty and expects us to be living in uncertainty because as you grow through the human experience, you realize that we're constantly wrong as humans. And I think God wants us to maintain that humility. I think it's why we don't really understand the afterlife. You know, Jews don't focus so much on the afterlife, not because we don't believe in the afterlife, but because we're, we're, we're trained, we're, we're trained to live with faith and uncertainty. So just

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  like 20 years ago, if you would have asked me, could I call you on FaceTime with my cellphone? I would say, what, what are you crazy? Like, of course, you can't, I can't call, like, I can't see you. And at the same time, of course, that cannot happen, right? 20 something years later, it suddenly happens, right? And so I think God is teaching us this lesson that these things will happen later on, and we need to accept the fact that we just don't know everything right now. It, it keeps us humble. It, it keeps us graceful. And I think it keeps us believing. And, and so why do bad things happen to really good people? I don't think we're able to answer that question. And I think we can't answer those questions because we're, we're expected to live in faith, you know? And so that's, that's my-

• 1:14:35Brian Keating?

  Yeah, I have a TED Talk where I talked about this statement in the Talmud where it said that a man should have two pockets, and a woman, and in each pocket, there should be a note. And in one pocket, you pull out the note, and you read, you know, "The whole world was created for me, for my benefit." And you pull out the other pocket, and it says, "I am nothing but dust and ashes," right? And so those two things, which I think is endemic to what we need to be as a scientist, too. What you said exactly applies to my colleagues, my students, right? Because if you're just arrogant, you know, there's an old joke where a scientist comes up to God and says, "Hey, God, you know, we're, we can make a man out of dust, just like you." And this, and then God says to the scientist, "Oh, yeah, prove it." So the scientist says, "Oh, here, give me some dust."

• 1:15:20Brian Keating?

  And God says, get your own dust.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:23Brian Keating?

  You know, so I think we have to be humble.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  NASA wants to say the same thing to those podcasters.

• 1:15:29Brian Keating?

  That's right. But dust, you know, can also cause you to lose a Nobel Prize.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  Not that NASA is close to God at all, but.

• 1:15:34Brian Keating?

  But you also have to be a little bit, you know, if you're, if you just said, look, it's unknowable. I'll never know what, what wireless communication is and I'll never make a transistor. Then we're stuck and we're the only creatures that we know about that have consciousness and have technology and therefore we should exercise those, you know, you were given gifts, you know, that, that ordinary people might not have, or an athlete has gifts that, or a scientist or a Nobel Prize winner, we should use those gifts, not only to say like, oh, we're not perfect and let's be all humble and, and despondent. No, you should also have a little bit of chutzpah swagger that you can dare to do great things.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love it. Well, what a great way to end this conversation. We could keep going on and on.

• 1:16:14Brian Keating?

  That's right.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  But really grateful that you're here and thanks for, for a lot of the clarity and just a lot of food for thought.

• 1:16:21Brian Keating?

  Absolutely.

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  You know, hopefully God really does love this world as the Mishna says, and while they, there may have been other worlds that have been destroyed, as they say, and as it said in the Talmud, hopefully this world is here to stay.

• 1:16:35Brian Keating?

  I hope so.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:16:37Brian Keating?

  Keep paying your taxes until we find out more.

• 1:16:39Speaker 02

  Sadly, I'm in California. I have to. Thanks.