Season 2 Update: Five Years Later

After nearly twenty-three years behind bars, Curtis Flowers was freed, in part due to In the Dark’s reporting. Now he’s back in Winona, Mississippi, where his saga began. What brought him home, and how is he doing? We visited him to find out. New Yorker subscribers get new In the Dark episodes early and ad-free. Subscribe today at newyorker.com/dark. In the Dark has merch! Buy hats, T-shirts, and totes at store.newyorker.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 2:05Speaker 01

  In this life, you can't win.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  When the world gets you down.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  No!

• 2:09Speaker 02

  Escape to Pluto TV.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  This is objectively fantastic.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  Relax into the movies and shows you already know and love, all for free.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Schwing!

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Even our news is uplifting.

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  You stay classy, San Diego.

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  Watch School of Rock, Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy, The X-Files, Wayne's World, and so much more.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  We're not worthy!

• 2:27Speaker 02

  The best things on TV really are free. You just have to know where to look. Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.

• 2:39Speaker 05

  It is strange to be back. Yeah, it is. So far, it looks the same. Just the same, yeah.

• 2:47Speaker 06

  A few months ago, I drove with our producer, Samara Freemark, to a familiar town.

• 2:52Speaker 05

  All right, here's our exit.

• 2:56Speaker 06

  We turned onto a familiar street.

• 2:58Speaker 05

  I believe they're just right down here, right? If memory serves, yep.

• 3:03Speaker 06

  And pulled up in front of a familiar white house with dark shutters.

• 3:07Speaker 05

  The white house right there? Yeah, that's the house.

• 3:11Speaker 06

  There was a shiny white Nissan truck parked out front.

• 3:14Speaker 05

  The truck in the driveway.

• 3:16Speaker 06

  With a bumper sticker on the back window that said...

• 3:19Speaker 05

  Locally hated.

• 3:20Speaker 06

  Locally hated.

• 3:21Speaker 05

  Oh, we gotta ask him about all these.

• 3:24Speaker 06

  We walked up onto the porch, and a man in a black baseball cap and Nike slides came to the door. Someone who I never thought would be living in Winona, Mississippi, ever again.

• 3:33Speaker 05

  Hello! Curtis, is that you?

• 3:36Speaker 07

  That's me.

• 3:36Speaker 06

  Curtis Flowers.

• 3:37Speaker 05

  You are so skinny!

• 3:39Speaker 07

  I had to.

• 3:39Speaker 05

  What happened?

• 3:40Speaker 07

  I had to. They made me lose it because I'm a diabetic.

• 3:43Speaker 05

  Oh, my goodness!

• 3:44Speaker 07

  And...

• 3:45Speaker 05

  It's so good to see you.

• 3:46Speaker 07

  You too. I said, "Well, surely they're just stopping by to see."

• 3:50Speaker 06

  The last time I'd seen Curtis Flowers in person was back in 2020, about a year after he was released from prison. Curtis had spent 23 years behind bars and had been put on trial six times for a crime that even the state of Mississippi now acknowledges he did not commit: the murder of four people at a local furniture store. Our reporting into Curtis's case had played a big role in Curtis getting out of prison. We'd uncovered false testimony, questionable forensic science, and a pattern of racial discrimination in jury selection by the prosecutor's office. Our findings made it all the way to the Supreme Court, where Curtis's conviction was overturned.

• 4:31Speaker 08

  The Supreme Court has thrown out the murder conviction of a Mississippi death row inmate who has been tried six times for a nine

• 4:37Speaker 06

  When I last saw Curtis, he was basically living and hiding in an undisclosed location out of state. It didn't seem safe for him to live in Winona, a small town where everyone knew about his case. And many people, in particular, white people, still considered him guilty. This is Curtis talking about it back then.

• 4:57Speaker 07

  Winona's not somewhere I would just want to go and hang out. Just to be safe and, you know, I just feel, you know, it's... I shouldn't have to worry about anything, you know? So I left,

• 5:10Speaker 07

  decided to just move away.

• 5:12Speaker 06

  And so, when I learned that Curtis had returned to live here, I was surprised. I wanted to know why. And I wondered what his life was like now. After all, Curtis was just 26 years old when he was arrested. He spent so many years on death row. By the time he got out, he was nearly 50. How do you rebuild a life after all that?

• 5:35Speaker 07

  Would you guys want to sit down? Yes, absolutely. Where should we sit? Wherever you want. Okay. On the porch? Yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 07

  Got that stuff done?

• 5:49Speaker 07

  I need a cigarette.

• 5:52Speaker 07

  Where do you want to sit? I like to sit in the sun. Okay.

• 5:57Speaker 06

  We sat down on the porch at his parents' house, where Curtis spends a lot of his time these days. There's two little plants, a candle, an ashtray for his cigarette butts. The porch overlooks an empty field. And most days, the neighborhood around the house is quiet.

• 6:12Speaker 07

  There's all kind of houses open on this street.

• 6:16Speaker 07

  A lot of empty houses? Yeah. I kind of like it that way because it's quiet, you know? I don't have to worry about a lot. When I first came home, you know, I didn't talk to people, you know? People didn't talk to me. But then, you know, it started slowly, you know?

• 6:33Speaker 07

  And here I am.

• 6:35Speaker 06

  Sitting on the porch together, Curtis told me that when he first got out of prison, his life was very different.

• 6:42Speaker 07

  Oh, man, I came home and was going everywhere.

• 6:49Speaker 06

  Curtis emerged from the confines of his solitary cell into the swirl of being a kind of minor celebrity.

• 6:58Speaker 06

  There were the junkets to speak to groups all across the country.

• 7:01Speaker 09

  We're really, really grateful to have with us here at Duke Law, Curtis Flowers.

• 7:05Speaker 07

  Every time I was called up on the go, I went.

• 7:07Speaker 06

  There were the interviews on television.

• 7:09Speaker 05

  What's Parchman like?

• 7:10Speaker 07

  The worstest thing he ever dreamed about, like a nightmare.

• 7:15Speaker 06

  The invitations to participate in mock trials at the law school up at Ole Miss. So you have to like go back to trial again. Curtis, you've been to trial six times.

• 7:23Speaker 07

  Six times.

• 7:23Speaker 06

  Can't they tell you like you get a break?

• 7:25Speaker 07

  Well, I think it's kind of fun when you know you're not being railroaded.

• 7:30Speaker 06

  Trial's nice when you're not the one on trial. There were the trips to places like New York City.

• 7:36Speaker 07

  We had a good time. We walked Times Square. We tried everything.

• 7:40Speaker 06

  There was the dinner at a swanky Italian restaurant, where the owner of the place recognized Curtis.

• 7:45Speaker 07

  She bags up, looks at me, Curtis motherfucking Flowers.

• 7:49Speaker 06

  And picked up the entire bill.

• 7:50Speaker 07

  She said, I followed your case the whole way. Get what y'all want, it's on me tonight. Everybody at the table started laughing.

• 7:56Speaker 06

  Seriously?

• 7:56Speaker 07

  Yeah, my cousin said, damn, everybody know your ass.

• 8:01Speaker 06

  There was Jay-Z's Rock Nation, which worked with the NFL to put Curtis's name on a helmet. There was the millionaire, who offered Curtis use of his beachfront house in the Hamptons, where Curtis sat sunning himself on the back deck as someone who looked suspiciously like Matthew McConaughey, floated by on an inner tube.

• 8:20Speaker 07

  Because of the hair, you know, to hang down his back. I said, he felt like Matthew McConaughey. I watched a time to kill.

• 8:26Speaker 06

  The star of A Time to Kill, or Someone Who Looked Like Him, called out to Curtis.

• 8:31Speaker 07

  Yeah, hey, how you doing? I said, I'm doing all right. How you doing, sir? I'm doing all right.

• 8:37Speaker 05

  Curtis, this is like the weirdest transition from Parchman prison to that.

• 8:41Speaker 07

  I'm trying to tell you.

• 8:44Speaker 06

  It was exciting and also a bit disconcerting.

• 8:48Speaker 07

  It was so much happened all at once. It just spooked me.

• 8:52Speaker 05

  It spooked you?

• 8:52Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:54Speaker 05

  What do you mean?

• 8:55Speaker 07

  Well, what I mean is that I didn't expect things like that, you know, to go that way.

• 9:00Speaker 06

  As the years went by, Curtis's life got a lot quieter. He found work as a handyman, doing odd jobs. He got married briefly, and then divorced. Nowadays, his life revolves almost entirely around one person: his father, Archie Flowers.

• 9:17Speaker 07

  You guys want to talk to him a little bit? I know he'd love to hear from you guys.

• 9:20Speaker 10

  Yeah, it'd be great to talk to him.

• 9:21Speaker 07

  He was excited to hear it. When I told him, I said, "Well, you know, from the podcast, they coming." "Oh, yes, yeah." All right, y'all ready?

• 9:30Speaker 06

  We went inside.

• 9:32Speaker 07

  That's my dad.

• 9:34Speaker 10

  Hello, Mr. Flowers.

• 9:36Speaker 06

  Archie was sitting in a chair in the dining room, watching Gunsmoke, the classic Western, on a little TV that Curtis had set up on the dining room table.

• 9:45Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 9:46Speaker 11

  How you doing?

• 9:47Speaker 10

  I'm good, how are you?

• 9:49Speaker 11

  I'm like, well, whatever.

• 9:51Speaker 10

  It's so good to see you.

• 9:56Speaker 06

  Curtis headed for the kitchen to crush his dad's meds and stir them into a cup of applesauce.

• 10:02Speaker 06

  He fed his father a spoonful.

• 10:03Speaker 07

  You eat now.

• 10:05Speaker 11

  What you?

• 10:09Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 06

  Archie looked much older and weaker than I remembered. In the years since I'd last seen him, I'd learned he'd been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Back when I was first reporting this story, when Curtis was still locked up, I spent so much time with Archie and his wife Lola. We would sit together in their living room, Archie on the large tufted ottoman, and Lola and me on the couch. Archie was a man who was more than comfortable with silence. The first few months I knew him, he seemed happy to let his wife do the talking. But over time, he'd let a joke slip, or tell a story. Then he started asking why I didn't come by more often.

• 10:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, right, y'all come see me sometime, anyway.

• 10:53Speaker 06

  This is from back then.

• 10:54Speaker 10

  Sure thing. Always. Our first stop and our last stop every time we're in town.

• 10:59Speaker 07

  That's right, that's right.

• 11:00Speaker 06

  And we developed a kind of routine.

• 11:03Speaker 07

  Good morning.

• 11:03Speaker 10

  Good morning.

• 11:04Speaker 06

  I would come over.

• 11:05Speaker 07

  Well, y'all give me a...

• 11:07Speaker 06

  And we would just sit and talk.

• 11:09Speaker 10

  How you doing?

• 11:09Speaker 07

  I just got a job.

• 11:11Speaker 10

  Oh, okay.

• 11:13Speaker 06

  Every two weeks, Archie and Lola would make the drive to Parkville Prison to visit Curtis. And Archie would give me updates on those visits, how he and Curtis would use that time to sing together in the visitation room, separated by a thick plexiglass divider.

• 11:29Speaker 11

  Yeah, we got a song that he loved to sing and we'd get together.

• 11:35Speaker 11

  Say you love Jesus. Say you love Jesus. If you love Jesus, you ought to show some sign. Oh, he'd tell me that.

• 11:50Speaker 06

  Later on, Archie invited me to meet his gospel group, The Melody Kings.

• 11:55Speaker 11

  Ladies, let it go come by.

• 11:57Speaker 06

  I would drive out to watch their practices in a spare room at the Greenwood Public Library.

• 12:04Speaker 06

  I actually got to see Archie perform a few times.

• 12:29Speaker 06

  Those performances are something I still think about. The intensity of them, how he seemed to completely lose himself in the moment.

• 12:49Speaker 06

  Archie told me that when he was performing, he imagined Curtis singing right next to him.

• 12:56Speaker 06

  Free.

• 13:13Speaker 06

  Archie did get to see Curtis released from prison, but his wife Lola never did. She died in July of 2018, just a year and a half before Curtis got out. After Lola died, Archie kept living in the family home on his own. But then he started having problems with his memory. And those problems got worse. One time, nearly four years ago, he even went missing. Authorities put out a silver alert and he was found the next day by the sheriff's department, drinking coffee at a deli 80 miles from Wynona. After that, Archie gave up driving. At a certain point, it became clear to Curtis and his five siblings that someone needed to stay with their father to take care of him.

• 13:58Speaker 06

  Curtis volunteered, though he said his dad tried to talk him out of it.

• 14:02Speaker 07

  He said, "Man, you don't have to hang around here looking after me."

• 14:05Speaker 06

  "You don't have to hang around here looking after me."

• 14:07Speaker 07

  I said, "Look, if you can take care of me, why can't I take care of you for a little while?"

• 14:12Speaker 06

  Archie smiled and said to Curtis.

• 14:14Speaker 07

  "I'm gonna tell Jesus about you."

• 14:18Speaker 07

  I said, "Well, I'd like to think he sees it already." He said, "Well, I'm gonna tell him anyway." But that's my dad.

• 14:23Speaker 06

  And so, this is why Curtis returned to Wynona. He moved back into the family home to live with his dad and take care of him. Curtis was trying to hire a caregiver for his father, but a lot of the time, the people he found fell through or wouldn't show up. Curtis's siblings help out, but most days Curtis is with his father all day and all night.

• 14:46Speaker 07

  Bathe him, feed him.

• 14:48Speaker 10

  That's a lot.

• 14:50Speaker 07

  He goes through a lot. And you just hate to see him go through it because my dad has always been this type of guy who's so independent.

• 14:58Speaker 10

  Right.

• 14:59Speaker 07

  I don't like to rely on nobody, do nothing for him. And I hate to see him like that, but that's why I volunteered to stay with him.

• 15:06Speaker 10

  That's a lot of responsibility, though.

• 15:08Speaker 07

  Yes, it is. It stresses you out.

• 15:10Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 15:12Speaker 07

  But he's a good dude. He really is.

• 15:19Speaker 07

  You ready?

• 15:20Speaker 11

  Oh, you ready?

• 15:22Speaker 06

  It was time for Curtis to help his father get ready for bed.

• 15:24Speaker 11

  Oh, whoa.

• 15:25Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 15:26Speaker 11

  He never pick me up.

• 15:28Speaker 07

  Now he gonna pick you up right now. You two, eh?

• 15:31Speaker 11

  Two, eh?

• 15:32Speaker 07

  I'm dying you.

• 15:33Speaker 11

  Yeah, you got it, huh?

• 15:33Speaker 06

  Curtis reached out his hands for his father.

• 15:35Speaker 07

  Are you ready?

• 15:36Speaker 06

  And held on to him as they walked slowly together.

• 15:39Speaker 07

  Come around here, man.

• 15:40Speaker 06

  Curtis walking backwards, his father walking forwards as they made their way into the bedroom.

• 15:46Speaker 07

  Come on, follow me.

• 15:47Speaker 11

  Oh, the good. I got Jesus, and that's enough.

• 15:51Speaker 07

  That's enough?

• 15:53Speaker 11

  I ain't want no.

• 15:57Speaker 07

  That's all you need?

• 15:58Speaker 11

  Yeah, all right. You gonna tell him about it, I'm gonna kick you.

• 16:06Speaker 07

  You ready?

• 16:09Speaker 07

  Right behind me.

• 16:12Speaker 06

  Curtis and his father share a bedroom. Curtis sleeps in his parents' bed and his father in a smaller bed right next to him. It's easier for him to get into these days. Curtis told me that even when Archie is sleeping, he worries about him. So he has a little alarm that he clicks on to his dad's clothing. It makes a sound if his dad tries to get up.

• 16:33Speaker 07

  Is he? I click it on him. Because if he raise up.

• 16:41Speaker 07

  Good. And then I just wake up. So where you going?

• 16:46Speaker 07

  There you go. Go to bag the thing up.

• 16:48Speaker 06

  Curtis gently eased Archie into bed.

• 16:51Speaker 07

  You're going the wrong way, huh?

• 16:54Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 16:56Speaker 11

  That's your thing.

• 16:58Speaker 07

  Yeah. Wrong way?

• 17:00Speaker 11

  Wrong way.

• 17:05Speaker 07

  I'm gonna lay down.

• 17:07Speaker 11

  You lay down?

• 17:07Speaker 07

  I got you, I got you, babe. I got you. Just lay down.

• 17:25Speaker 06

  Being there with Archie and Curtis, I was struck, not for the first time, by the unfairness of it all. This family had waited 23 years for this moment, when Curtis would finally be out. But now, that moment was here. And Curtis' mother was dead, and his father was struggling with dementia.

• 17:49Speaker 05

  Have a good night, Mr. Nice.

• 17:51Speaker 07

  Yeah. They saying goodnight to you.

• 17:54Speaker 05

  Goodnight.

• 17:55Speaker 07

  Don't you leave me.

• 17:57Speaker 05

  We're gonna have a great day tomorrow. Yeah, we're gonna have a great day tomorrow.

• 18:32Speaker 12

  Comprehensive.

• 18:33Speaker 13

  Witty.

• 18:33Speaker 12

  Speculative.

• 18:34Speaker 13

  Critical.

• 18:35Speaker 12

  Insightful.

• 18:35Speaker 13

  Profound.

• 18:36Speaker 12

  Wide-ranging.

• 18:37Speaker 13

  Hopefully, it doesn't take itself too, too seriously.

• 18:40Speaker 14

  I'm David Remnick, and each week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join us for The New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 18:53Speaker 13

  The thoughtful.

• 18:54Speaker 12

  Exquisite.

• 18:55Speaker 13

  Just, you know, real.

• 19:01Speaker 11

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 19:03Speaker 04

  It's me, the

• 19:04Speaker 11

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 19:06Speaker 04

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 19:08Speaker 11

  What about a third time?

• 19:09Speaker 04

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 19:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 19:24Speaker 04

  Fine. No one deals more deals than... Please stop. Touche. Priceline.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  In this life, you can't win.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  When the world gets you down.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  No!

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Escape to Pluto TV.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  This is objectively fantastic.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Relax into the movies and shows you already know and love, all for free. Schwing! Even our news is uplifting.

• 19:44Speaker 04

  You stay classy, San Diego.

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  Watch School of Rock, Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy, The X-Files, Wayne's World, and so much more.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  The best things on TV really are free. You just have to know where to look. Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.

• 20:01Speaker 06

  Samara and I spent several days in Wynona with Curtis and his father. Sometimes, we'd sit with Curtis in the living room, on the same couch where I'd spent so many hours talking with Archie and Lola. The room was still set up in the same tidy way that Lola had it. Lots of floral patterns, heavy drapes, family mementos on the shelves and walls. Other times, we'd go back out to the porch to talk while Archie slept inside. We talked about going for a drive around town together, but with no caregiver, it just wasn't possible. And so, we stayed at the house and talked.

• 20:36Speaker 06

  I wanted to know what it was like for Curtis to be back living in the same place where so many people had judged him and thought he was a murderer. And I wanted to know what was up with that bumper sticker that we'd seen on his truck when we drove up. You gotta talk to me about these bumper stickers.

• 20:53Speaker 07

  Oh, um...

• 20:54Speaker 06

  What does that one say?

• 20:55Speaker 07

  Locally hated.

• 20:56Speaker 06

  Locally hated. At the time Curtis bought the sticker, he'd just moved back to Mississippi after having lived out of state for a while. And the sticker seemed like a way of bracing himself for the reactions he expected to get.

• 21:10Speaker 07

  I just felt like that at the time, you know, I just came home. That's why they hate me anyway. Let me get that and I'll put it right in the center.

• 21:18Speaker 06

  I told Curtis that seemed like a bold move, driving around Winona, Mississippi, with a bumper sticker like this, in a town where opinions about his case were divided sharply along racial lines. In my own reporting, before Curtis's conviction had been overturned, black people I talked to in town nearly all believed that something was seriously wrong with Curtis's conviction. Most believed he was innocent. White people held a different view. Nearly every white person in town I talked to was convinced that Curtis was guilty. Curtis told me that the first person to comment on his bumper sticker was a white lady.

• 21:57Speaker 07

  I was at the rear, like, seen a car pull up behind me, blow the horn. I thought, "That was a white person." So I pulled over, and she pulled over too. She said, "Oh, I love that sign on your back glass." She said, "Anyone gave you hell about it?" I said, "No, they haven't." I said, "You the first one to stop me and spoke on it, and you laughed about it." She said, "I think it's just so unique after all you've been through." And then, like, the more I kept it, you know, more people compliment, and only laugh at it. Like, like-

• 22:20Speaker 06

  So you have a bumper sticker that says "Locally hated," and the only response you've gotten to it is from locals saying that they love it?

• 22:26Speaker 07

  They love it. Yeah, and, and, you know, they find it funny.

• 22:31Speaker 06

  So now, do you feel, is the bumper sticker true? Do you feel "locally hated"?

• 22:36Speaker 07

  No. I don't. That's why I thought about taking it down. But then, you know, I said, all I've ever gotten were positive feedback about it. So why not just leave it in there?

• 22:48Speaker 06

  While it was nice that people didn't respond by trying to drive him off the road, over time, the kind of nice reactions he got from people in town have been difficult in their own way.

• 22:58Speaker 07

  I'd go to the grocery store sometime, you know, people see me, and then just walk up, start talking. "How you doing, Miss Fly? I'm doing all right. How are you?" And we just start talking.

• 23:06Speaker 06

  Curtis described these conversations as basically all going the same way, an encounter with a white person at the grocery store or the gas station, where the person would say to him-

• 23:16Speaker 07

  "We did not know."

• 23:17Speaker 06

  "We did not know." We'd always just assumed you were guilty because the district attorney, Doug Evans, said you were. And then they'd go on to say how it was only many years later when the podcast came out that they began to question what they'd been told. And Curtis would be standing there trying to decide how exactly to respond to this.

• 23:38Speaker 07

  Wouldn't you believe when the first time, you know, I always do it as a joke to make them laugh. Yeah, I said, so you could have thought about that the first time.

• 23:45Speaker 06

  So people come up to you and say, we didn't know, like basically saying, look, we believe Doug Evans.

• 23:51Speaker 07

  From the get go.

• 23:52Speaker 06

  And what are you thinking when people tell you that?

• 23:54Speaker 07

  That they should think for themselves.

• 23:56Speaker 06

  They should think for themselves.

• 23:58Speaker 07

  Think for themselves and not take something somebody else say.

• 24:01Speaker 06

  When someone tells you, like it comes up to you in a grocery store and it's been, you spent 23 years of your life behind bars and they say, oh, I just always assumed you were guilty. Is part of you like angry at that person?

• 24:14Speaker 07

  No, no, it's to be expected around here, especially if it's someone that you know would believe Doug Evans over you. Yeah, and I hate to say the word all the time, so that's why I explain it that way.

• 24:28Speaker 06

  Well, are we talking about white people?

• 24:30Speaker 07

  Pretty much, but, but they were just so bent on because Doug Evans said, this is my guy. He's gifted.

• 24:37Speaker 06

  The district attorney, Doug Evans, the man who prosecuted Curtis over six trials, retired in 2023. Doug Evans is still licensed to practice law in Mississippi, according to a website associated with the Mississippi Bar Association. Since our reporting came out, there have been at least three complaints filed against Evans at the Mississippi Bar. One has gone seven years with no known decision. Another has languished for so long that the lawyer who filed it has since written a letter of complaint to the Mississippi Supreme Court. We asked the bar association to explain the apparent delays, but they refused, saying that they would not even confirm the existence of the complaints, let alone comment on them.

• 25:22Speaker 06

  In 2021, Curtis filed a lawsuit against Doug Evans and three former law enforcement officials, accusing them of pressuring witnesses, failing to meaningfully investigate alternate suspects, and preventing black people from serving on the juries. The lawsuit was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. We reached out to Doug Evans, and through a lawyer, he declined to comment. Curtis also receives $50,000 a year from the state of Mississippi. A judge ordered the state to pay Curtis this amount every year for 10 years. The total, $500,000, is the most the state allows for a wrongful conviction.

• 26:03Speaker 07

  Better late than never, but 23 years of your life gone, you can't even get it back. They think a few dollars are always the answer. Well, but you have to really think about it, you know? Those are years you can't get back.

• 26:19Speaker 07

  You just pick up and move on.

• 26:23Speaker 06

  Curtis told me he doesn't spend much time thinking about Doug Evans these days, but he does still think a lot about fairness. Curtis was the victim of a very big injustice, so big it was in the national, even international news. But these days, the injustices he notices are smaller, more day-to-day. The kinds of things he sees when he's sitting outside on the porch, like the police pulling over black people who don't appear to be doing anything wrong.

• 26:50Speaker 07

  You come crawl over here, and they everywhere. In that parking lot right there, on that street before you get to that gym down there, lit up all day long. Just stopping somebody. They got nothing better to do.

• 27:05Speaker 06

  The family's porch overlooks an empty field where a public school once stood, before it was integrated by court order in 1970 and then mysteriously burned to the ground. Since I'd last been in town, a tall metal fence had gone up around the field, cutting off what had once been a popular shortcut through the neighborhood. Curtis said the cops had taken to trying to arrest people who jumped the fence to use the shortcut.

• 27:31Speaker 07

  I seen a guy come, little young kid, come through here one Saturday morning. He jumped the fence right over there. He just walking down through there. He got his walking on, looking down, bobbing his head. He don't even see the police pull right down there and got out of his truck and just came around, leaned against the hood, and waited on him. I was doing it right.

• 27:49Speaker 06

  You tried to wave him off?

• 27:50Speaker 07

  I tried to wave him off to let him know. He just never even paid me no attention. He just walked. He get right out on that platform and see him, he just froze in his track. He looked this way, he looked that way. I said, "You thinking about running now?" He said, "Come on, I don't run." He walked on down, he put him right in trip, and pulled off with him.

• 28:06Speaker 10

  They took the kid away for, for walking across this field? For like trespassing or something?

• 28:11Speaker 07

  No trespassing, they mean it.

• 28:13Speaker 06

  Curtis told me that one day, a guy came by with some bolt cutters, cut a hole in the fence. The next day, a cop showed up at Curtis's house.

• 28:21Speaker 07

  He said, "Hey, how you doing Curtis?" I said, "I'm doing alright." He said, "Look, uh, uh, do you happen to see anybody over there, uh, on this side of the fence?" And I said, "Now, is some, is some particular person you looking for?" "Well, someone cut the fence." I said, "No, I don't know nothing about that though."

• 28:37Speaker 06

  Curtis said the cop even asked him about his security camera.

• 28:40Speaker 07

  And he said, "I can't help but notice, uh, y'all have a security camera." I said, "Now, ain't no, ain't no law, I'm not a convenience store, I don't give you no footage."

• 28:48Speaker 10

  They would just want you to get your camera footage?

• 28:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, the black guy behind him started laughing. And I said, "Yeah, I don't have to give you no footage." I said, "I did 23 years, I did 23 wrong for you." I said, "Now, I'm supposed to just turn up some footage over and help them guys?" I said, "I don't want to rap people out like that." But...

• 29:06Speaker 10

  You said that to the cops? What did the cops say?

• 29:09Speaker 07

  "Have a nice day Curtis." I said, "You too." They walked around there laughing.

• 29:15Speaker 10

  I think a lot of people would make a different choice, but...

• 29:18Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah, he coming over, he asked me to tell him somebody, "What you trying to give him 23 years to?"

• 29:34Speaker 10

  Do you think there's a way in which you being so known for everything that happened with you protects you in a way from being treated even worse than the local police? Or do you think it's the opposite, or...

• 29:45Speaker 07

  I think it helps.

• 29:46Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 29:47Speaker 07

  Because, you know, so many people know me and know me that, you know, they, I feel they have to watch how they approach.

• 30:08Speaker 12

  Comprehensive.

• 30:09Speaker 13

  Witty.

• 30:10Speaker 12

  Speculative.

• 30:10Speaker 13

  Critical.

• 30:11Speaker 12

  Insightful.

• 30:12Speaker 13

  Profound.

• 30:13Speaker 12

  Wide-ranging.

• 30:14Speaker 13

  Hopefully doesn't take itself too, too seriously.

• 30:16Speaker 14

  I'm David Remnick, and each week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join us for The New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 30:29Speaker 13

  The thoughtful.

• 30:30Speaker 12

  Exquisite.

• 30:31Speaker 13

  Just, you know, real.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 30:39Speaker 04

  It's me, the.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 30:43Speaker 04

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  What about a third time?

• 30:46Speaker 04

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Seems like they just said it.

• 30:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Time to read the timeline.

• 31:00Speaker 04

  Fine. No one deals more deals than.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Priceline.

• 31:03Speaker 04

  Please stop.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Priceline.

• 31:05Speaker 04

  Touche.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Priceline.

• 31:07Speaker 04

  Priceline.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  In this life, you can't win.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  When the world gets you down.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  No!

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Escape to Pluto TV.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  This is objectively fantastic.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Relax into the movies and shows you already know and love, all for free. Schwing. Even our news is uplifting.

• 31:21Speaker 04

  You stay classy, San Diego.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Watch School of Rock, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy, The X-Files, Wayne's World, and so much more.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  We're not worthy.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  The best things on TV really are free. You just have to know where to look. Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.

• 31:39Speaker 06

  Over the days we were in Wynona, there were times when Curtis was especially exhausted from taking care of his dad.

• 31:45Speaker 05

  So he was up a lot last night?

• 31:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, we had an episode. I cleaned him up. And then we just ended up talking. He wasn't ready to go back to sleep. I remember sitting on the easy bed, just rocking. And he talked. I looked at the clock one time, about 3:15, and I was like, look, it's time to lay down again. He said, go ahead. I said, no.

• 32:07Speaker 06

  Curtis said he'd been up for hours, just rocking his father back to sleep, trying to keep his own eyes open. And by the morning, Archie was full of energy, sitting in his chair at the dining room table. And Curtis was spent.

• 32:22Speaker 07

  And then we been full steam ahead this morning.

• 32:27Speaker 07

  He got a little mojo in them legs too. He was moving and moving. I walked in the kitchen, I come back, he was sitting right there. I went into the room, come back, he's sitting way over here.

• 32:40Speaker 07

  Something is wrong with you, Curtis.

• 32:48Speaker 11

  Something wrong with you?

• 32:49Speaker 07

  Something wrong with you.

• 32:51Speaker 11

  Oh, man. Do a little bit of...

• 32:59Speaker 11

  Trying to think of a song that you might know.

• 33:05Speaker 07

  I know you forgot it, man.

• 33:07Speaker 11

  I'm on my mind, but...

• 33:10Speaker 07

  I tell you what, you're gonna like this one. "Haven't Been to Heaven."

• 33:15Speaker 07

  But I heard the streets...

• 33:19Speaker 11

  I haven't been to heaven, but I heard the streets were paved with gold.

• 33:31Speaker 07

  Been a long time since I did that false air. Long time no play.

• 33:35Speaker 11

  I haven't been to heaven, but I heard the streets were paved with gold.

• 33:48Speaker 11

  It's a place to rest and a pool to bathe your weary soul.

• 34:05Speaker 07

  You remember?

• 34:05Speaker 11

  Lord, oh Lord, please hear my prayer.

• 34:16Speaker 07

  That's always on the same.

• 34:19Speaker 11

  Give some water, boy.

• 34:23Speaker 11

  Give me a place to rest.

• 34:28Speaker 07

  Oh my.

• 34:30Speaker 11

  When I get there.

• 34:34Speaker 07

  You see that? It's a song that me and Daddy done tried a lot of songs, sitting here every day, all day.

• 34:42Speaker 11

  Sure.

• 34:44Speaker 07

  I come through the door humming like, hmm. He said, "What you humming, boy?"

• 34:50Speaker 11

  I'm a good song, man.

• 34:52Speaker 07

  And we go from there.

• 34:54Speaker 11

  He gonna sing it anyway.

• 34:56Speaker 07

  We go from there.

• 34:58Speaker 11

  Yeah, it's love.

• 35:02Speaker 06

  On our last morning in town, when we pulled up, I was surprised to see Curtis outside in the driveway by himself.

• 35:09Speaker 10

  Oh, Curtis, throwing out the trash.

• 35:13Speaker 06

  It was literally the farthest I'd seen Curtis get from his father the whole time we'd been in town.

• 35:18Speaker 10

  Good morning.

• 35:21Speaker 06

  A caregiver Curtis had been trying to hire had showed up unexpectedly, and she offered to watch Archie for a few hours.

• 35:27Speaker 07

  Well, yeah, Ms. Cunningham showed up. I was so happy to see her. I said, "Oh, my goodness, thank you." Yeah, and I get a situation, and I come right out the house with the tray.

• 35:36Speaker 10

  I'm glad you're getting a little break, because that's, that's a lot. I mean, I know you don't mind doing it, and in some ways you like doing it, but man, you need a break.

• 35:45Speaker 06

  We decided to spend the free morning driving around town. We all piled into Curtis's truck.

• 35:50Speaker 07

  All right, we about ready now.

• 35:52Speaker 10

  All right, I'm, I'm gonna rise shotgun.

• 35:58Speaker 06

  We drove down Summit Street, Powell Street, Applegate, through neighborhoods where I'd spent so much time years earlier, knocking on people's doors, investigating Curtis's case.

• 36:08Speaker 07

  I know you guys are probably familiar with some of this here.

• 36:10Speaker 10

  Oh, yeah, very familiar with a lot of all with. I mean, this is just like a strange experience, I gotta say, Curtis, because we have driven this route so many times, like piecing this all together. And I never thought that one day I would be driving this route with you.

• 36:26Speaker 07

  The actual person.

• 36:28Speaker 10

  Right.

• 36:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 07

  Are we coming up into town right now?

• 36:34Speaker 06

  We drove past the police station and past the courthouse, where Curtis was put on trial.

• 36:38Speaker 07

  As much as I've been in this courthouse, they had my picture on the wall in here.

• 36:42Speaker 10

  Your picture on the wall?

• 36:43Speaker 07

  Yeah. I should be like Martin Luther King. I should have went down in history with them.

• 36:48Speaker 10

  There should be a Curtis Norris statue outside.

• 36:51Speaker 07

  Right out here in this field. We put him through so much hell that we gave him a statue.

• 37:00Speaker 07

  See, I want to be doing what this guy doing right there. Riding a motorcycle.

• 37:05Speaker 06

  A man was riding by us on an old black motorcycle. Earlier, on the porch, Curtis had pulled up some photos on his phone to show us the exact type of motorcycle he dreamed of having.

• 37:16Speaker 07

  Look at that, there I do.

• 37:18Speaker 10

  Oh, my God.

• 37:18Speaker 06

  A red Can-Am Spyder, a three-wheeler that looks like a cross between a motorcycle and a snowmobile, or maybe an ATV.

• 37:27Speaker 07

  That's a pretty machine.

• 37:31Speaker 07

  I'll be looking at them every day. And I want to get out there and just ride, ride, ride. Oh, man. Let down my hair and I don't even have hair.

• 37:41Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 37:42Speaker 07

  I'm serious. I want to get that back.

• 37:53Speaker 10

  So do you think that eventually you'll leave Winona?

• 37:57Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 38:01Speaker 07

  I tell my sisters and my brother, you know, Daddy, the only reason I'm still here right now. I said, Lord knows what would've happened to him today and how we'd be out of here before the weekend.

• 38:11Speaker 10

  Really?

• 38:12Speaker 07

  Yeah. We're probably back in Texas somewhere, Alabama.

• 38:16Speaker 07

  Either one better than here.

• 38:19Speaker 10

  Do you think you'd like to live in a place where not everybody knows you?

• 38:24Speaker 07

  I prefer it that way, ma. Just want a fresh start, you know? Just being somewhere where people don't know me. Just starting a new life, you know? It's just, it's just a lot easier to, to forget the past and move on. Like around here, if I stop somewhere, people want to talk. Curtis, are you Curtis? Every time you see someone, they bring up, uh, what, what I went through.

• 38:53Speaker 10

  You feel like every day, it's like you're reminded of...

• 38:57Speaker 07

  What I've been through.

• 38:59Speaker 07

  When I'm out in public.

• 39:00Speaker 10

  Someone says, hey Curtis, that was so wrong, or hey Curtis, I've changed my mind.

• 39:04Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 39:05Speaker 10

  They think they're being nice, but they're just reminding you.

• 39:07Speaker 07

  Exactly. Always bringing it up. And they just walk up, start talking. Hello, excuse me, my name is so and so, so and so, and, and I just, uh, saw you and I just wanted to speak and, and say, it's just a shame what you had to go through. I say, yes, it is, but they'll just keep talking, talking, they'll follow you through the store. And I'll be trying to find the milk and the butter so I can get them to get out of here.

• 39:32Speaker 07

  So sometimes I'll pull out my phone, I'll excuse me, hello?

• 39:36Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'm, I'm headed out now, you know, something like that.

• 39:39Speaker 10

  Like pretending to be, like I have to go now?

• 39:43Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm. Just get away from them. Cause now I walk out the store, now I'm thinking about it now. But they were going good, somebody brought that up.

• 39:54Speaker 06

  We kept driving. Curtis turned onto a gravel road.

• 39:58Speaker 07

  That's the cemetery right up here.

• 40:01Speaker 07

  I guess the other time I had to ride through here, now the time. It's gonna be raining a little bit. See the sky.

• 40:09Speaker 06

  The cemetery sits on a small sloping field, surrounded by trees, just around the block from Curtis's house. We pulled over to the side of the gravel road and got out.

• 40:22Speaker 07

  All these, all these right here, family. Family, family, we deep up here.

• 40:27Speaker 06

  We walked with Curtis through the cemetery.

• 40:30Speaker 07

  Amy Seals, Ken Folk. My mom's sister's son, that's him, Corwell. Ruth's John.

• 40:39Speaker 07

  All these seals and Sanders, Flowers, Campbell, Woods. They all family.

• 40:47Speaker 07

  This, this whole little hill here, nothing but family.

• 40:53Speaker 07

  As you can see, we got mama right over here.

• 40:56Speaker 06

  Lola Flowers' grave was marked with a granite stone, with the word "Mother" etched in front. Next to it was another gravestone, marked "Father." It was for Archie.

• 41:08Speaker 07

  The guy who owned the tombstone place, he said, you know, "I've known your mom for years and I'm not gonna let you guys buy a tombstone. I'm gonna do it myself." And he just went on to add a daddy to it.

• 41:22Speaker 06

  Curtis's mom had always believed that Curtis would get out one day. She was so convinced of it that she even saved up money and bought him a small house, right across the street from the family home. Though she later had to sell Curtis's house to pay for her dialysis treatments.

• 41:39Speaker 07

  And see, I come up here and I clean the grave off and

• 41:43Speaker 07

  try to get it looking neat, especially during, you know, Easter and stuff like that.

• 41:49Speaker 06

  Curtis comes here whenever he can, whenever he can find someone to watch his father.

• 41:54Speaker 07

  I got a lot on my mind and I come up here and just sit sometime. And I just get out, I come over here and, you know, sit on tailgate in my truck and just be talking. Then I see too many people start walking through and then I get in the truck and leave. Because they see me, they're gonna come and talk to me, you know?

• 42:09Speaker 06

  Curtis said he sits there and talks to his mom about all kinds of things.

• 42:14Speaker 07

  I can have a conversation with my mom, you know, talk about things going on, what I'm feeling. So I come up, you know, I said, "Mom, you know what I'm going through, you know, I'm taking care of daddy, you know, and or can't get nobody else to come and relieve me and do stuff like that." Because momma's always telling me, "Baby, you can talk to me about anything." And I do it. I still do it to this day.

• 42:35Speaker 06

  I mean, you talked to your mom probably more than anybody while you were in prison, right? I mean, you talked to her like every day?

• 42:41Speaker 07

  Every day, sometimes three, four times a day. And these are like $25 a call.

• 42:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 07

  She always want to know what going on with me, am I all right? But my mom, she was always like that.

• 42:56Speaker 06

  Do you feel like she's with you when you're sitting there?

• 43:00Speaker 07

  Every time I leave, I got this sense of calm over me, you know?

• 43:08Speaker 06

  We had to get back to the house. The caregiver needed to leave at 1.

• 43:12Speaker 07

  He mean, Dad gotta do it again, one on one?

• 43:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 07

  I hope she been keeping him up, because if he hasn't been sleeping, I'm gonna get here.

• 43:23Speaker 06

  Curtis headed inside to check on his dad.

• 43:25Speaker 07

  Hey, what Dad doing?

• 43:27Speaker 15

  He just woke up from bed. He wanted to lay down, so I...

• 43:30Speaker 06

  It turned out, the new caregiver had mistakenly allowed Archie to take a nap, throwing off the schedule.

• 43:36Speaker 07

  I normally, I normally try to keep him all night.

• 43:39Speaker 15

  Let him sit up, okay. Okay, well, he said, "I wanna go lay down."

• 43:43Speaker 06

  So now Curtis was guessing he'd be up late, trying to get his dad to go to sleep.

• 43:47Speaker 07

  He just trying to cheat on me.

• 43:49Speaker 15

  Oh, he trying to... Well, he got you.

• 43:51Speaker 07

  So he can keep me up all night?

• 43:52Speaker 15

  So he got you today, then? I asked him, "Was he ready to get up?" Because he just woke up.

• 43:58Speaker 07

  That way you can see everybody. Oh, see you. I know you don't want to see me. You see me every day, every night. Those are all these beautiful faces. (singing) Ain't no danger in God's water. There ain't no danger, oh, in God's water. I know. He said, "I forgive you, really."

• 44:37Speaker 06

  After a few days, our trip had come to an end, and we had a plane to catch in Memphis. We said goodbye to Archie Flowers.

• 44:45Speaker 05

  Well, I'm glad we got a chance to see you, Mr. Flowers. It was really good. Yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 11

  Yeah, I'll do me kill.

• 44:51Speaker 05

  Take it easy.

• 44:52Speaker 11

  I'll do that.

• 44:54Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 44:56Speaker 06

  Curtis followed us outside to the car.

• 44:58Speaker 07

  You guys can't think of anything else?

• 44:59Speaker 05

  I think we're good.

• 45:00Speaker 10

  We're good. It's been really so good to see you.

• 45:03Speaker 07

  You all too.

• 45:04Speaker 10

  And it's been too long, and we shouldn't let another five years go by.

• 45:07Speaker 07

  Thank you. Thank you, y'all come back sooner than that.

• 45:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:11Speaker 07

  I hate to see you go now. I feel like we've been together all week.

• 45:14Speaker 05

  I know.

• 45:15Speaker 10

  I know.

• 45:15Speaker 05

  Great to see you.

• 45:16Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'm taking you too.

• 45:17Speaker 06

  None of us really wanted the visit to be over.

• 45:19Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 45:19Speaker 05

  It's real good to see you.

• 45:20Speaker 07

  You get home, call me.

• 45:21Speaker 05

  All right.

• 45:22Speaker 07

  Anyway, I'm gonna miss you guys.

• 45:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:24Speaker 07

  If y'all get bored going over, call me.

• 45:25Speaker 05

  All right, sounds good.

• 45:27Speaker 07

  All right, I wish you'd have brought the car to take you to the airport.

• 45:29Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 45:29Speaker 07

  Been our last outing before I let you go.

• 45:32Speaker 05

  Bye, Curtis.

• 45:33Speaker 10

  So good to see you.

• 45:34Speaker 05

  Bye.

• 45:41Speaker 06

  Curtis walked back inside. There were dishes to wash, pills to crush, meals to prepare, songs to sing. His father was waiting for him.

• 46:20Speaker 06

  We visited Curtis and Archie back in March. After we finished writing this episode and were preparing to release it, we received some sad news from Mississippi. Curtis's father, Archie Flowers, had died. He passed away peacefully on Monday, October 6. Curtis and Curtis's sister, Priscilla, were by his side. I talked to Curtis the day after his father died. He told me about their last conversation. He said his dad asked him to be there for the family. Archie said, "I need you to be the glue for everybody. Keep them together and make sure they stay happy. Because daddy's tired, and I'm ready."

• 47:03Speaker 06

  Archie Flowers was 83 years old.

• 48:27Speaker 06

  This episode was reported and produced by me, Madeline Barron, and managing producer Samara Freemark, with help from Raymond Tungakar, reporter Parker Yesko, and producer Natalie Jablonski. It was edited by Alison McAdam. Additional editing by Willing Davidson and Julia Rothschild. This episode was mixed by Corey Shreppel. Music by Johnny Vince Evans and Gary Meister. Fact checking by Teresa Matthew and Raymond Tungakar. Legal review by Fabio Bertoni. Our managing editor is Julia Rothschild. The head of global audio for Kandee Nast is Chris Bannon. The editor of The New Yorker is David Remnick.

• 49:12Speaker 06

  You can support our work by subscribing to The New Yorker at newyorker.com/dark. And thank you.

• 50:03Speaker 12

  Comprehensive.

• 50:03Speaker 13

  Witty.

• 50:04Speaker 12

  Speculative.

• 50:05Speaker 13

  Critical.

• 50:05Speaker 12

  Insightful.

• 50:06Speaker 13

  Profound.

• 50:07Speaker 12

  Wide-ranging.

• 50:08Speaker 13

  Hopefully doesn't take itself too, too seriously.

• 50:11Speaker 14

  I'm David Remnick, and each week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, my colleagues and I try to make sense of what's happening in this chaotic world. I hope you'll join us for The New Yorker Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 50:24Speaker 13

  The thoughtful.

• 50:25Speaker 12

  Exquisite.

• 50:26Speaker 13

  Just, you know, real.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  In this life, you can't win.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  When the world gets you down.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  No!

• 50:36Speaker 02

  Escape to Pluto TV.

• 50:37Speaker 03

  This is objectively fantastic.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  Relax into the movies and shows you already know and love, all for free.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Shwing!

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Even our news is uplifting.

• 50:45Speaker 04

  You stay classy, San Diego.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Watch School of Rock, Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy, The X-Files, Wayne's World, and so much more.

• 50:52Speaker 01

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• 50:54Speaker 02

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• 51:02Speaker 16

  Para los grandes, para los chicos, para los bajos y los altos, los pacifistas, los valientes. Para los optimistas y los pesimistas, los que valoran lo de adentro. Para los que están lejos, los que no vende lejos, y los que no vende cerca. Para los introvertidos y los extrovertidos. Para los que piensan y los que hacen. Para los que nos mostraron el camino. Coca-Cola. Para todos. Compra una Coca-Cola en una tienda cerca de usted.