This Is Why You Can’t Afford a House — The Truth About Inflation, AI, and Why Everything Feels Unfair | Daniel Priestley PT 2

In this installment, Daniel and Tom push deeper into the roots of economic anxiety, the morality of money printing, the logic (and danger) of debt, and why the “Monopoly game” always ends in revolution, collapse, or war. They ask what it will really take to avoid history’s bloodiest outcomes — and whether the solutions are personal, systemic, or already out of reach. SHOWNOTES 43:12 Why money printing is immoral — and also unavoidable 52:09 Why the end of the “Monopoly game” means collapse, war, or revolution 54:26 Why emotional arguments win — but don’t provide answers 55:26 Is there any bloodless way out of our current economic predicament? 56:04 The dual systems: Industrial age in decline, digital age on the rise 59:03 Chess, cards, and elite training simulations (the structure of society) 1:10:03 The baby boom, housing inflation, and the demographic crunch 1:14:02 Bell curve economics vs. power law distribution 1:15:43 Why money printing makes “saving your way up” impossible 1:16:48 Agency, intelligence, inflation and who gets ahead 1:26:40 Adam Smith, self-interest, and how the invisible hand really works 1:30:06 Authoritarianism, top-down fear, and the dangers of utopian “rescue” plans 1:41:25 Artificial General Intelligence, wide access, and the dawn of creative superpowers 1:46:13 Creation vs. consumption — the fork in the road for personal success 1:50:13 Why future careers will be plural, fast, creative loops 1:54:02 Will most people embrace agency, or get left behind by hyperloops? CONNECT WITH DANIEL PRIESTLEY Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielpriestley/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielpriestley/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/DanielPriestley Website: https://www.danielpriestley.com CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Vital Proteins: Get 20% off by going to ⁠https://www.vitalproteins.com⁠ https://www.vitalproteins.com and entering promo code IMPACT at check out Monarch Money: Use code THEORY at ⁠https://monarchmoney.com⁠ https://monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year! Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at ⁠https://shopify.com/impact⁠ https://shopify.com/impact Netsuite: Download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at ⁠https://NetSuite.com/THEORY⁠ https://netsuite.com/THEORY iTrust Capital: Use code IMPACTGO when you sign up and fund your account to get a $100 bonus at ⁠https://www.itrustcapital.com/tombilyeu⁠ https://www.itrustcapital.com/tombilyeu Mint Mobile: If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at ⁠https://mintmobile.com/impact.⁠ https://mintmobile.com/impact DISCLAIMER: Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month 5 gigabyte plan required (equivalent to $15/mo.). New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full-price plan options available. Taxes & fees extra. See MINT MOBILE for details. What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:⁠ join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER⁠ https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:⁠ see if you qualify here.⁠ https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:⁠ sign up here.⁠ https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,⁠ Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook⁠ https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS:⁠ apple.co/impacttheory⁠ http://apple.co/impacttheory ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:⁠ https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/⁠ https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:⁠ https://twitter.com/tombilyeu⁠ https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Their dashboard tracks what comes next based on what your business actually needs. So EIN number, registered agent, licenses and permits, bookkeeping, business banking. I tell every founder the same thing. Just make it official. Click the link in the show notes to check out Taylor Brands and get started on your business today. This is a paid advertisement. I'm Tom Bilyeu and this is Impact Theory. Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Daniel Priestley. Let's dive right back in. The reason that I think the much bigger problem is money printing is because you make it impossible for somebody to save their way to success.

• 1:26Tom Bilyeu?

  So there are great stories of back in the day, a janitor who's making less than a poverty wage is still managing to put some amount of his money away. Usually if they're going to get a return, it's into the stock market. Okay, so they figure out that you can buy assets. For the person that's putting money under their bed, the problem ends up being that if they put a hundred dollars under the bed, it literally becomes 10 cents.

• 1:58Tom Bilyeu?

  The reason I think you're so right about houses is that people understand them. You don't have to teach them, you don't have to make a really complicated card game. It's just you can live inside of it, people get it. Oh, put my money in that. That's the thing that will allow me to retire. Cool, I get it. I live in it, high utility and it will let me retire. The thing that people understand intuitively about money is I make $10. If I only spend nine, then I get to keep one of those dollars and they're going to add up over time. Once you break that equation and the intuitive thing to do is save my money, buy a house. Those go away and now you can't afford to buy a house.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get it.

• 2:38Tom Bilyeu?

  And let me, let me put a button and I can't save it because you're inflating it into nothing. So that while I still have a hundred dollars in my bank account, it buys $10 worth of goods in, you know, whatever, 25 years. So now people are forced to play a game they don't understand. The stock market, Bitcoin, all those things. And now you're getting into the real thing. And this is the grotesque thing that I think nobody wants to talk about. The power law distribution that you're talking about is intelligence. And so now what's happening is the most intelligent people are winning massively. And the most emotionally reactive are losing.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Losing out.

• 3:24Tom Bilyeu?

  And they're going to let you know about it. And that ace is about to become the 11 and clean the deck. And so I'm like, fuck, I'm looking at this. And every time I try to think through like, what's going to be the solution? There are only two things that present themselves to me. Number one is AI makes energy cost and labor drop to zero. Now anybody can have whatever they want for free. You have meaning and purpose and a meaning crisis that you're going to have to deal with. But hopefully the Gini coefficient thing will cease to be a problem. So the Gini coefficient for anybody that's never heard of that is, uh, it actually doesn't matter if you're rich or poor.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Measure of, um, measure of, uh, social.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Ability, right?

• 4:07Tom Bilyeu?

  It's comparing yourself to somebody else. So I'm wealthy, but if I hang out with Elon Musk, I'm gonna feel broke. And so it is the discrepancy of the people around you. So you were talking earlier about social media just makes it possible to see everybody's living a better life than you. And so that's part of the derangement because the human animal just has that locked in their mind. Okay, so anyway, AI, that's one potential solution. The other is that.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Hot walls.

• 4:36Tom Bilyeu?

  People are just going to lose.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Resilience revolutions.

• 4:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, because they they don't have the intellectual horsepower to win. It's not like you can create a system that will work for them. They just don't have the intellectual horsepower. And so you've created a setup that you call technology. But it is, I think, again, wildly influenced by the way that the economy works.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Technology massively creates inequality.

• 5:06Tom Bilyeu?

  But they can't do the basic things.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:08Tom Bilyeu?

  Buy a house, save your money. Those two are off the table. And so once the thing that everybody understands goes away, what are you left with? So if AI doesn't come through, like, what do you see? Is there, like, it, history says debt resets through violence. That that's the punchline, Tom. Stop worrying about it. It's gonna happen. Sorry that you're living through the moment. You just happen to be one of those people is what it is.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Or or economic collapse. Yeah, but social unrest, economic collapse, violence would be an element of that. I don't necessarily buy into the idea that it's just.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Like, one of the things that our grandparents wouldn't have had access to is that you pull out your phone and rather than saving your money, you just put it into an index fund effortlessly. And it just like literally you round up every purchase, any spare money, and you just pop it straight into S and P 500 or gold or Bitcoin.

• 6:09Tom Bilyeu?

  The confused mind says no.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  And all of, yeah, but I'm just saying there are effortless solutions that actually currently exist.

• 6:16Tom Bilyeu?

  For people that understand.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  For people who understand. I'll come to that, right? So there are effortless solutions available. Now, if there are effortless solutions available, then the gap is education and training. One thing that I'm really clear on is that we created an education system to prepare us for a world that no longer exists. One of the things that has to reset is that we have to relook at how we educate people. So it's utter madness that financial literacy isn't taught at school. It's utter madness that technology and understanding how technology and those kind of jobs would work. It's crazy to think that we're kind of preparing people for a blueprint of office jobs when most people are going to be working in remote teams on several plural projects.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  They're going to have a plural career. They're not going to go 15 years of education, 25 years of being a junior technician, five years of being a manager, five years of being a leader, 15 years of retirement then death. They're not going to do that. They're going to do super fast-paced creative loops. And those super fast-paced creative loops are essentially, you know, the way the economy, it's going to be a high-velocity economy. And we're not preparing people for any of this sort of thing. When you talk to people of even below-average intelligence and explain, here's how to index your money against inflation, and here's how to, like, here's an easy way to do this. There are apps that have done this with education modules built in.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  And anyone who downloads and uses those apps starts to pretty clearly do this. So it's not like solutions aren't available. Technology has provided plenty of solutions. We're just not training people or educating people. In fact, we're doing the worst thing possible. We're educating and training them for the wrong thing. We're telling kids, don't team up to answer your questions on an exam, do it on your own. Well, that's not how the world works. Don't be an influencer or a disruptor or an attention seeker, because that's bad. Well, that's actually, that's really good. You're an attention seeker, and you get a lot of attention, and it pays the bills.

• 8:21Tom Bilyeu?

  How dare you do that?

• 8:22Speaker 01

  In a really good way. When a kid is bad at maths and really good at history, we say you need a maths tutor. We should be saying you need a history tutor, right? Forget maths, you're not, that's not your strength. Go all in on this history thing. You know, like play your strengths. We're not teaching agency where we actually say.

• 8:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Define that.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Agency is the ability to impact the world, the ability to have an impact. So people of high agency move the world around them. They get things done and they transform things and they just, they just don't have many barriers to moving the world.

• 9:01Tom Bilyeu?

  And you think we can teach that?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there are, there are ways to teach agency.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  You know, when people have an early experience of putting together, like my, my little kids, when they figure out how to run a lemonade stand and then they organize it and they pull those things out the front and they get the little bench set up and they get the cups and they get the jugs of lemonade and all of that. And then people walking past the house start giving them a dollar. And they walk in the house with $16 and they go, how amazing was that? That was just a little education in agency. You made that happen, you did that. You look, look what you did on your own. You know, school really is designed to lower agency. The, the founders of the schooling system, the creators of the schooling system actually said publicly,

• 9:49Speaker 01

  we don't want a population of thinkers, we want a population of workers. We don't want people who come up with new ideas for how the factory might run better. We want people who just do what they're told, hour in, hour out and clock in and clock out. So they built a system to kind of replicate that, which I'm not critical of that. That's probably what the world needed at the time and we, we thank our lucky stars for all the things that that system produced. But it's just not the system that we need right now.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  So education is a huge thing. Now, we also have YouTube channels where you can get all sorts of education freely available anywhere in the world with an internet connection. So the education actually exists as well. And you can ask AI all of these questions and it will start giving you solutions. So the cool thing is the solutions do exist to these problems. It's not wildly difficult to stay ahead of inflation. Like, it's not that hard to do. If you're talking about savings, just rather than holding savings in a depreciating fiat currency, just hold your savings in S and P 500, or hold your savings in gold, or hold it in Bitcoin, maybe. You know, so, you know, there are ways to do that. And it's an app on your phone, and it's as easy to use as a bank account.

• 10:59Tom Bilyeu?

  We'll be right back with more from Daniel Priestley. Stay with us.

• 11:03Tom Bilyeu?

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• 11:45Tom Bilyeu?

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• 12:27Tom Bilyeu?

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• 13:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Promo code IMPACT. It's completely risk-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee. All right, we're back. Let's get into it. What I get hung up on is all of those things exist now. People do not avail themselves of them.

• 13:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Could we educate our way there? I hope so.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Can I also be critical?

• 13:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, please.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  There is no power in thinking about the system. The system is far too big and complex, and countless millions of very intelligent people have lost their entire decades thinking about how the system should run. The capitalist system, or the free-market system that Adam Smith created, basically said, "You do you, right? Make the decisions based upon your life and your inputs, and go as hard and as fast as you can and make the best decisions for you." And it actually said, there's this weird thing called the invisible hand of the market, and if you do you, ignore the system, just go out there and make your success of your life.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  And he said, if everyone does that, everything gets better. And if we try and create a system and top down architect a system, if we top down try and say, what would the best system look like? That is a road to ruin that every country goes down. So to a degree, you can sit there, navel gazing, mentally masturbating over how systems are built and how they might work and how we could theoretically do it better. My message for anyone listening to this is just, who gives a shit? Get yourself in order, get yourself, get yourself your savings account, get yourself your investing

• 15:04Speaker 01

  account, get yourself online, start educating yourself, start a business, join a business, get a mentor. Go and make as much money as you possibly can, live the greatest life that you can. If you want to move to Bali, move to Bali. If you want to be a remote worker, be a remote worker. If you want to launch a YouTube channel and that for you is your best opportunity, do the stuff that, that, that works for you. Be self-interested, right? Get yourself ahead. In doing so, you will become an economic unit. You will actually raise GDP just by doing that. And when millions of people make their own decisions based on their own self-interest, that is a collective set of people absorbing data points and responding to data points.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  And we end up with the free market and we end up with the invisible hand of the market. And historically, again and again and again, when the invisible hand of the market is, is firing on all cylinders, everything gets better for everybody. But we must not fall into the trap, especially as smart people, of thinking that we could come up with a better system than a million people looking after their own lives could come up with. Like, we need to encourage people, go do you. You will, it, it is incredible sense of disempowerment. It puts us into our reptile brain. It puts us into fear and disempowerment to try and analyze something that is out of our pay, pay grade, that's above our, that is above our ability to influence. You know, it's, we might as well be sitting there thinking about how to terraform Mars.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  It's like, we're not involved in that conversation. Like, there is no individual who can make this. Even the people in charge of the system can't control the system. So I guess what I'm saying is, when I, when I get into a debate with Gary and he's like, "Oh, the answer is this, the answer is that." And then I say, "Look, the answer is you need to get on with your own life and respond to the situation that you're in." And I know that angers people, but the alternative is sitting around waiting for the system to change, or sitting around waiting for war, sitting around waiting for the government to stop inflating the currency. And it's like, it's like, don't overanalyze it. Go, go kick the door off the hinges and make some money.

• 17:08Tom Bilyeu?

  I am a big believer that anyone's life is a direct reflection of the choices that they've made.

• 17:19Tom Bilyeu?

  However,

• 17:22Tom Bilyeu?

  when you start looking at things up close, you realize that some systems are better than others.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:33Tom Bilyeu?

  And

• 17:39Tom Bilyeu?

  the long arc of history bends towards justice so far.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:43Tom Bilyeu?

  When you look backwards, it's like, whoa, I'd rather be alive now than any other moment in time. It's entirely possible that we're about to hit longevity escape velocity and that people can actually live forever. I mean, there's just really, really amazing things potentially on the horizon. So even though people might feel a nice pull to the nineties, I really would rather live right now.

• 18:04Tom Bilyeu?

  But when I really stare nakedly at the problem, I'm like, there is a hurdle rate for people right now that is, it's problematic.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:16Tom Bilyeu?

  And that there really is something happening in this moment. And my whole life, I have thought from the perspective of the individual.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:27Tom Bilyeu?

  And I think it's the right level of analysis, and I want to be very clear. I am more terrified of authoritarian top-down rule than I am of anything.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Um, I think it is absurd to think you can save everybody. You can't.

• 18:43Tom Bilyeu?

  No system is going to save everybody. I have read so much about, uh...

• 18:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Mao's China, Stalin's Russia.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Seventy-five million dead, twenty-five million dead.

• 18:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, just eating your own children to the point where my community gives me a hard time because I talk so often about eating children. Uh, but the reality is you starve people long enough and they start eating their kids. It's crazy, crazy but true. Um, so I have a deep and fundamental terror of top-down authoritarian rule. It is the thing that scares me far more than anything else. But when you start looking at just, there are default systems that for better or worse, we pass through them, whatever, in a capitalistic system that were better for the average person than now. And so I don't know if it's just where I'm at in my life.

• 19:41Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't know if it's, uh, you stare long enough into the abyss and the abyss begins to stare back. I honestly don't know, but I can find myself going, I refuse to settle for, um, the only people that can be helped are the people that.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  That's not what I'm saying.

• 19:57Tom Bilyeu?

  No, and I don't think it is. And I, I want to be very clear. I'm not trying to paint you into a box. I'm trying to invite you into my madness, if I'm completely honest and say, uh, I used to sell a T-shirt, this is, everything is your fault. I still believe that that is a way better way to live your life if you embrace.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  The genesis of mass starvation, destruction, uh, the genesis of seventy-five million dead in China, the genesis of Stalin's Russia, the genesis of all of that is, hey, the economy's not fair. Some people tend to get ahead and some people don't get ahead. Um, it's not evenly distributed. Uh, these people seem to be doing better than these people. Wouldn't it be great if the government steps in and created a better system for everybody? Like no, at no point were they saying, hey, let's come up with a system that starves our population and causes parents to eat their children. None of that was the plan. These are the unintended consequences. The unintended consequences of wanting to, to, to good and thinking that we know better

• 20:57Speaker 01

  than markets is death and destruction. Unintended consequence of being an asshole and saying, let people get on with their own lives is affluence, widespread affluence. And we see this every experiment that this has tried. When governments are a small, there is no such thing as a small government that didn't take out lots of debt that let the citizens get on with themselves. That collapsed and, you know, did terribly. There are countless examples of big governments trying to control their population and trying to build a better system for everyone. That lead to death and destruction.

• 21:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, but I don't, I hope, in all the words that I've said, you don't hear me saying that. So I don't want more government, I want less government. My thing, if I were going to summarize all of this is, um, what I heard you just say to me is stop thinking about the way the system works and just get on with it. I'm saying, hmm, that no longer feels real to me. This feels like now is the moment to think about the system. Now is the moment to realize, we've come a long way away from what Alexander Hamilton had in mind when he wrote the Federalist Papers. And what he wrote in the Federalist Papers is way smarter than what we have now. And, uh, like, what the fuck? Like, we need to wake up, we have access to all this information. And I wanna see.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  A slight tweak, a slight tweak is not, let's look at the system, let's look at the opportunities. Right? And let's, let's be open to the idea that opportunities change generation to generation. The opportunities that my grandfather had was to buy a house and let it go up in value. But the pa- the penalty that he had to pay for that is working in one shitty factory for forty years. So he, so I wouldn't want to trade places with my grand, even though my grandfather had a house that went up in value really well. I wouldn't want to change my life because he lived in one city and worked in one factory. And his, his, his day was really dull and boring, right?

• 22:49Speaker 01

  So if I had to choose, do I swap my life or do I swap my teenage years that I was in, let's say, like for like, for his future prospects? Even though it's clear that he had a great opportunity around housing, he didn't have a great opportunity around much else. Now, you take my grandparents of, of great grandparents, the whole lot, and fast forward to them today, and they say, oh, forget the housing thing, the housing isn't like, it's not a big deal. What's a big deal is live and work from anywhere, travel the world, uh, educate yourself for free online. Do, do the equivalent of the best university degree for free on YouTube.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Uh, launch a SaaS product and have a thousand people who pay fifteen bucks a month for this cool little thing that you created. Um, create a YouTube channel and share your ideas and learnings and philosophy and journey with a group of people and have ten thousand subscribers, uh, who really love what you've got to say. Be a guest on a podcast. Um, go on a cheap flight. My goodness, go into that metal tube that goes through the air and, and takes you places. So like all of our ancestors would be screaming from the sidelines, make the most of today's opportunities. Don't chase our opportunities, chase your opportunities. So rather than thinking about how do we improve the system, how do we improve our sensitivity to opportunities?

• 24:14Speaker 01

  How do we recognize what's right in front of us? How do I, how do we make the most of the times we are living in, not make the most of the times that have passed? Because you can't just simply say, oh, I want to cherry pick the best bits. All right. Cause you might say, hey, I want that post, post world war two era. Okay. But did you want your big brother to get blown up in, in the war and have no legs? Like, did you want to go and fight fascists in Europe? Did you want to drop a nuclear weapon on a hundred thousand civilians? Like, did you want all of the stuff that went into that period? Or do you just like the best bits that the fruit that came from that tree? Cause I, I think we don't probably want where that tree came from. So it's like, you can't cherry pick the past. You know, what we have to do is say, this is the moment that we have, and there are

• 24:59Speaker 01

  so many phenomenal opportunities in this moment. We just need to be present to that and go after them.

• 25:05Tom Bilyeu?

  What you're saying is amazing. Um, here's why I think we, we have different base assumptions. So to pull those into the light, let me ask you.

• 25:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Rate the UK in this moment. How well is the UK doing in terms of like, educating people well, giving them financial opportunities, magical metal tube in the sky that they can fly around? Like, how is the UK doing making use of the opportunities of this moment?

• 25:41Speaker 01

  You've got two systems that are coexisting. So, system one, industrial age massively declining. People can't get traditional jobs. People can't get a decent wage. Wage growth hasn't changed in 15 years since the financial crisis. The average income stayed the same while everything's gotten more expensive. People live in utterly terrible housing.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  That, you know, is below subpar. The school system, very, very hard to navigate. The hospital system is getting worse and worse. And it was once the pride of the country. So, all of that's in decline. At the very same time, there are plenty of people living in London who they go skiing in the Alps in winter. They go to the southern Mediterranean for summer. They have customers all over the world that they talk to on Zoom. They have a YouTube channel. They have a SaaS company. They have products that ship. They fly to Dubai and go to a networking function and pick up a $40,000 contract.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  And like, life's great. Life's incredible. I know this sucks to shed a spotlight on this. But for a lot of people who are living, who, if your focus is intellectual property, media, data and technology, your life is going like this. If your focus is, I want things to be the way that it used to be, your life is going like this. So, you can't say, how's the UK doing? The UK government is a great example of a geographically limited, institutionally limited, industrial age-produced system that is in huge decline, can't attract talent,

• 27:25Speaker 01

  can't do anything right, can't do the basics of government right. Look at the, look at the people who we've got to choose from as our leaders. Utterly ridiculous. There are better people working in small tech companies of 10 people who would do a better job of running the government. So that's what I mean by there's these two systems. So you can't literally kind of broad blanket it all together. My vision, I've got these kind of X-ray goggles on because I've been thinking about this for a while. And I just very easily go, oh, that's system one, that's system two, that's that's old system, that's new system, that's digital, that's, you know, that's cloud, that's dirt. You know, I mean, go to Silicon Valley and you've got the richest people in the world with the poorest people in the world.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  One group of people make their money on the internet in the cloud or on, you know, any of those things. One group of people are not making their money in that way. It is, it is as stark and as simple as that. But the barriers to entry to moving into system two are very, very low. Like, it's just education. So like, the, the ability to vibe code a new SaaS product, launch it, there are 17 year olds doing that. Like, there are literally seven, there's a 17 year old who's currently raising $15 million for a product that he's vibe coded into existence. There's an 18 year old who's still at school, who has 20 million worth of revenue for a calorie

• 28:45Speaker 01

  tracking app that is an AI backed calorie app that him and his friends built. There are 20 year olds who have a YouTube channel and they're making a million a month from their YouTube channel. So like, the barriers are low to move into the digital world or to join a digital world team.

• 29:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Don't go anywhere. More with Daniel after this.

• 29:08Tom Bilyeu?

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• 29:51Tom Bilyeu?

  My link gets you an exclusive 30 days free instead of the usual 14 day trial. There's no credit card payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/impact to get started. Again, that's pipedrive.com/impact and you can be up and running in minutes. All right, we're back. Let's get into it. Let's just start looking at the, one of the positive paths that we could go down, which is AI. When you look into the future and you see AI, what do you see? Is it more opportunity, lowering the barrier to entry? Do you see societal problems? Like, what do you see?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes to both of those. Let's start with this. There's something called a singularity, which is the world becomes completely unpredictable. You can't see around the corner. It's accelerating. So that's a singularity event. And there's something called artificial general intelligence. My personal belief is that we've achieved both of those already. So, and I'll give you a historical perspective. The first time someone shot a bullet out of a gun and hit a target, that was a singularity. Because it didn't matter from that moment forward. There was no going back. Life was going to be different on planet Earth once a gun shot a bullet. The very first time a tractor plowed a field with 97 people watching in disbelief

• 31:15Speaker 01

  as two people plowed a field that would have taken them a month and they did it in an afternoon. That was a singularity moment. At that particular moment, as soon as that first tractor plowed a field, those people's lives were never going to be the same again. Society was never going to be the same again. Everything was going to change. As soon as the printing press printed the first Bible. And effortlessly and cheaply, that was going to change society. So in my mind, I have a lower bar for what is a singularity moment. A singularity moment means we've crossed a threshold, the genie's out of the bottle. We will never go back and it's only going to get way different from here. So in my mind, enough has happened with AI now that we're past the singularity. We, this means we can't see round corners.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  We don't know what's coming next. It's getting faster and accelerating. It's beyond exponential growth. It's accelerated exponential growth.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  The society and life is in a complete total set of change, whether you know it or like it or not. So that's part one is we are past the singularity and it's just a matter of time now where everything reorganizes around that technology or with that technology in mind. Part two is artificial general intelligence. So I also believe that's happened. Some people say AGI means that it is like a human. I don't think it needs to be like a human. I think a plane is nothing like a bird, but it gives us flight.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  AGI is nothing like human intelligence, but it gives us artificial general intelligence. So every human being who has access to the internet or a phone now has in their pocket artificial general intelligence. They can access a doctor, an accountant, an engineer, an artist, a poet at a better than a general level. And the net effect of that is artificial general intelligence. Even though it needs to be guided by a human, even though it needs to be human in the loop, we now have artificial general intelligence that's widely available. I personally would now feel more comfortable talking to an AI about my health than a GP. I get more from an AI than going to a general practitioner.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  I, you know, I dump my health data into an AI and it gives me insights that my GP won't give me.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  I do, I do more on AI for legal contracts than I do with my lawyer. And ten, ten years ago, I would have spent a lot of money with my lawyer. Now I just spend time with the AGI. So, so in my mind, we have actually got AGI and we do have, we have passed the singularity. The net effect of those things are happening. People are gonna hate that and they're gonna dispute and they're gonna give me the technical definitions of those things. But for all intents and practical purposes, those two things have happened in my mind and I'm acting as if. So that means that um we're going to go through societal reorganization. Every job will be different. Every workplace will be different. Every institution will be different. Everything will reorganize around that new system.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Um, and there's gonna be fast reorganization, slow, there's gonna be peaceful and disruptive. Um, you know, it's, it's all gonna, like, the, the whole world is going through that. It's unpredictable as to how the chips will fall uh as a result of AI. Um, the, the, this is, this is like electrification. Um, it's very unpredictable. If I was to go back to my grandfather and say to my grandfather, I've got a personal trainer. And my grandfather says, what's a personal trainer? Well, it's someone who meets me at the gym because I don't really wanna go to the gym. And you go, well, what, you pay this person? Yeah. What do they do?

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Well, I meet them there and they stand next to me while I lift things. And I say, okay, what else does he do? Oh, he counts how many times I've lifted it and tells me that I've done a good job and make sure that I'm lifting it without hurting myself. And I go, and my grandfather would go, that can't be a real thing. That can't be a real job. Not possible. And I say, well, there's actually tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who do this job and they do really quite well. Lots of, like, they're booked solidly. And my grandfather would just be like, mind blown, what you pay to go to a place to lift things and have someone watch you doing that? Like, it's just crazy. So when technology comes along, it creates completely different jobs, opportunities,

• 35:44Speaker 01

  things that we can't even comprehend today come out of the, you know, these technologies. Jobs, jobs that will seem a preposterous, absurd insanity will be major jobs of the future.

• 35:58Tom Bilyeu?

  So um, an optimistic view for sure. Do you, given that you can't see what is going to be, do you have a way that you encourage people to interface with it now? So that no matter where it goes, they're going to be able to take advantage?

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a few principles that I go with. I go, principle number one is create versus consume. So with AI, it gives you two superpowers, the power to create more than you thought you could, or the power to consume more than you wanted to. So when AI works against you and takes you down the consumption path, you spend more time on TikTok than you intended. You have more screen time than you thought you would. You buy more things, add more things to your Amazon basket. You listen to more songs on Spotify than you thought you would. So it's more, more, more, more, more consumption. When you go down the creation path, it's like, oh, in an afternoon, I mapped out a book that I'm going to write. I organized a festival that I'm going to run. I started a SaaS company and wrote a business plan.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  And it's like, oh, and it's only 3pm. And it's kind of like hyper creative. So a sensitivity to are you creating or consuming is rule number one with AI. Am I being used by the system? Am I using the system? And we all need to develop that sensitivity. We all need to go, hey, I recognize what's going on here. I'm being beaten by AI. Hey, I recognize what's happening here. I'm using AI as an amazing tool. So create versus consume. The wedge that's coming for society is the creators versus the consumers. That is the wedge. So essentially, we're going to have this societal wedge where a bunch of people say, 2% of people go, I'm going to be hyper creative. I'm going to have a plural career. I've got seven major projects on the go at any given time.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  All of them are seven-figure projects and they're all epic. And I make a million dollars a month. And like, it's easier than ever to do that. That's, that's 2% of people. And then there's the consumer wedge, which is, oh, I just sit around watching stuff and listening to stuff and, and feeling like I'm, you know, disempowered. But somehow there's always stuff to do. I don't know where the day goes, but you know, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm dragged down this rabbit hole. So that's the consumption wedge. And AI is very tricky. It can make you feel like you're actually on the right side of the wedge when you're not. Right. So that's.

• 38:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you have an example of that?

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Oh, like training and education. So it's very easy for someone to watch hours and hours and hours of what they would call training and education. When they're not actually doing anything, they're not creating. They might read dozens of books and go, oh, I'm getting ahead so well. I wrote, I read 12 books this month. I, you know, I, I listened to all these TED talks. It's like, okay, but what did you create? What was your output? All right. So create, creation is output that you get paid for. So you want to be on that side of the wedge. Right. Cause the, the society is going to split the top two and the bottom 48. So we need to basically say, I'm, I'm going to be, you know, the, I'm going to be up here.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  I'm going to be this, uh, this creative, creative space up here.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  And it's going to be good to be up there. You're gonna, you, you're literally going to be able to have a dream life. Like you will literally in a couple of years' time, you're going to meet people and it's going to be entirely normal to say, oh, I just organized a festival in Italy, wrote a book, created a new podcast series, launched a SaaS product. And that was just all fun, passion projects and I, my net worth just exploded. Like from, from these fun things that I've been doing.

• 39:41Tom Bilyeu?

  You don't think that there's going to be such an overabundance of things to consume that? This is what I was talking about earlier, where capital is now going to be disaggregated. So rather than all of those things being seven figure deals, it's, there's 30,000 books coming online every day. And now precious few people, precious few people are going to actually make a living doing that thing.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Well, you want, this, this concept of making a living is this idea of a long arc career. And we need to get off that and say, fast, hyper acceler, like, uh, high velocity loops. So a loop is identify a problem, research the problem with a colleague. Identify a solution, build a slightly bigger team and scale it, start scaling it, add more people, add more technology, exit it and collect the fruits of doing that. That could last three months, that could last three years. It's not going to last 15 years, it's not going to last 45 years. So we've got to get off this idea that you write one book and that pays for the rest of your life. Or you, or that you, you know, in a world where it's easy to write a book, you might write a book and have a little campaign and make $12,000.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  And it was a great use of your time and it builds a bunch of relationships. And then those people go with you to your festival that you run in Mexico. And then you launch a, a, a community online discussion group and people are loving that. And that leads to another opportunity. So boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And you might have seven things on the go at once. I, I allows for that. I know this for most people, 48 out of 50 people are going to hate me for saying this stuff. But there is a group of people that you can become part of, who that's going to be a fun, enjoyable, exciting way to live.

• 41:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Why do you think people will hate that?

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Because, well, it's pressure, isn't it? Like, most people just want to have a nice, like, most people don't want to have to, you know, if you, if you take what most people want because of their upbringing, it's mostly, I want just stability. I just want safety and security. You know, this life over here is like being special forces behind enemy lines. You've got to be good and you've got to kick doors down and you've got to, you know, be sharp with your weapons. Um, and you've got to look for the intel and make you, make your way through the forest. So being special forces behind enemy lines is, is going to be hard. You can learn to do it in an AI world, but most people say, how, I don't want to do that. I want security and stability of, of, of a job. Um, mind you, some of these fast loops, you might do one fast loop every five years and that pays for the next four.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  You know, so like the, the upsides, because the money's not going to disappear. The money's going to be sloshing around. So the money's out there. You've just got to come up with things to do. So yeah, create versus consume, content versus context. So content is like the legal agreement. Content is the, the, um, you know, the, uh, you know, the, the, the stuff, the marketing copy. Context is understanding the big picture of why we need a legal agreement. Understanding the big picture of why we needed that marketing content.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  So AI is phenomenally good at content, but not good at context. It's really, really good at giving you a legal agreement. If you tell it why you need it and what you need and, and what you're trying to do. Very, very bad at telling you the bigger picture and like executing and holding it all together as it currently stands. So humans need to be kind of context versus content. Um, and thinking about like the, the bigger picture of knitting these things, um, to, together. So that, that, that's another way to think about it.

• 43:13Tom Bilyeu?

  So given people's desire for steady state stability, do you have a sense of, cause you said that you also see societal problems coming.

• 43:24Tom Bilyeu?

  How do you see that playing out if people want stability, but what they get are hyper loops?

• 43:29Speaker 01

  Um, for the vast majority of people. By the way, when I say how I see it playing out, this is not an endorsement of, of the way I want it to be. And it's really important that I say this, I'm not saying how I hope it plays out. I'm responding to what I'm seeing. So I'm about to say something that everyone's gonna be angry at. But this is not me saying, hey, this is how I would design it.

• 43:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Right, right.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  It's like me saying, this is what I see unfolding. Um, and I'm not like endorsing it. I'm just saying this is what I see unfolding. For many, many, many years, uh, hundreds and hundreds of years in the agricultural age, we used artificial intelligence to automate most of the value in society. And we called it soil. So you plant a prompt into the soil, which is a seed. And out comes something of greater value, which is wheat. And planting prompts, collecting wheat was the job of most people.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  And the vast majority of value was just automated into existence. People worked, I think, one hundred and fifty four days a year on average, and they worked five hours a day on average. And in certain places where the climate was consistent, you actually had plenty of abundance of food, and it was automated into existence. Now, we didn't know how that automation worked. We didn't understand how a seed turned into wheat, but we could still use it. So it was like a god force that we just prompt, and then we receive output. Prompt hallucinate, prompt hallucinate, right? Prompt wheat, get wheat, prompt wheat seed, get wheat. You know, prompt tomato, get tomato. Prompt tomato bush, get a tomato out, right?

• 45:09Speaker 01

  So but you can see that it's automation. Most of it's automation. You're just waiting for it to happen, and you don't even know how it happens. You just know that if you prompt it, you get the thing. In that society, we had a lot of haves and have nots. We had kings and we had serfs, because the kings owned the soil. They had the means of automation. So the automation was there, and they owned it, and therefore they were supremely wealthy on a completely godlike level. And everyone else was dependent upon prompting that artificial intelligence to give them what they wanted. However, there was actually surplus value. They could, they didn't have to work anywhere near as hard. And what emerged was a culture of meaning, but the meaning was based upon festivals.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  So everything was all about having a birthday festival, having a wedding, having a spring equinox festival, having a festival or a feast. So it was community based. When they coordinated their labour, it was to create something of great meaning, which would be a church, a chapel, a massive cathedral. And it could have even taken ten generations to complete, where you actually had two hundred years for the construction of a cathedral. But it wasn't a paid thing. It was a, we have so much surplus value, we're all going to work together on producing something that is massively meaningful that we all work together on.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  So this is not a new way of humans living. This is a very, very ancient way of humans living. If anything, we lived differently for two hundred years. And for thousands of years, we had automation at the absolute core of our economy. And we had Um, uh, meaning derived from festivals and community and monuments. So what I see happening, I think we've created digital soil, which is AI. It's going to be owned by a few people who are going to be the new kings and dukes and lords. The vast majority of people will experience a surplus that comes from all this automation.

• 47:17Tom Bilyeu?

  That is really interesting. I have never heard anybody talk about soil like that. Uh, okay. Super fascinating. So you don't worry about a meaning crisis post AI. Because we've already had a similar thing and we lean into the rituals and the, but those things.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  There'll definitely be, there'll definitely be a period of time where there is a meaning crisis. Because we've raised people for 50 years who are alive and we've raised people for decades to say, your meaning comes from working at Coca-Cola. Your meaning comes from getting that corporate promotion. Your meaning comes from moving from the 19th floor to the 23rd floor with a, with a nicer office. So all these badges of meaning that we condition people to have, you know, th- these things become meaningless. And then there's a crisis of meaning. But historically, on the long arc of history, that is not where we got our meaning from. No one derived their meaning from their work. They derive their meaning from their family. They divide from their relationship with God,

• 48:22Speaker 01

  from their building of a monument, um, from community and festivals. Festivals were a massive thing, huge thing. Interestingly, I'm friends with some trust fund kids and some people who are post economic, uh, post exit. They spend an enormous amount of time traveling around, going to festivals. So like every month is a festival. They go, oh, where are you? Oh, I'm a Burning Man. Oh, I'm at this one in England. I'm at this one in Italy. I'm at this one in Japan. I'm like, I'm going to these festivals and there's groups of people who kind of like traverse the globe, going to various festivals that pop up. It's interesting that when someone has sold their company for $900 million, let's say.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  It's not like they have a crisis of, or there is a crisis of meaning, but there is, there are ways to, to, to solve that. Um, I, I think we will go back to festivals and monuments, um, and, uh, and probably spirituality, um, all of those sorts of things. There are, there are definitely long arc of history ways that we've solved this problem that have lasted a long time.

• 49:22Tom Bilyeu?

  Hmm. And you don't think anything changes for that when we're hyper connected? Like that, when you can't explain, uh, the rain, or you can't explain like a thunder and lightning storms. You come up with mythology and there's nobody there to be like, no, that doesn't make any sense. You're not worried about hyper derangement of, uh, people don't fall in love anymore. All their friends are AI, they're sleeping with a sex bot. It's interesting, Daniel, you're really like making, uh, I find myself dwelling in the darker sides of my psyche. Because you carry the optimistic weight for me, which I appreciate, uh.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  There'll definitely be all of those things. There's, there's always.

• 50:08Tom Bilyeu?

  But not in an amount that you're worried about.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  There's all, uh, yeah, I'm concerned, um, but I, I stoicism dictates that you can't concern yourself with things that are out of your control. So I can hypothesize about, um, individual circumstances that might happen, but unless I'm confronted with that individual circumstance that is happening, then it's not, it shouldn't be a great, uh, amount of my time that goes into it. When a friend of mine or a loved one of mine says I'm dating an AI agent and it's really great. I'm having the best relationship of my life, then I might start to discuss that. When my kids come to me and say, hey, my new girlfriend is this sex bot, then it probably I will.

• 50:49Tom Bilyeu?

  What would you say?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  So what's her, what's her name? Um. Uh, yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, obviously, it's a, it's a, that would be a big conversation. But there has never been a time in all of human history that doesn't have light and dark. We always have light and dark. There, there are wonderful parts of every single culture and era. And there are horrific parts of every single culture and era. You cannot, it's like trying to find a magnet that only has positives and no negatives. It's like there is no magnet that's positive and that's all positive and no negative. You must accept that all scenarios are going to have positives and negatives. And move yourself towards the positives. And if everyone does that, we advance society.

• 51:34Tom Bilyeu?

  You, have you spent any time thinking about, because your kids are really gonna interface with this? So I'll give you an example. You were talking about people that are in the, I rounded to entertainment. You didn't use those words, but like people that are creating with AI, like they're having a great time.

• 51:51Tom Bilyeu?

  I have paid very, very talented writers to work with me.

• 51:57Tom Bilyeu?

  And I've never had a, and this could be delusion. Maybe what I'm doing with AI from a writing perspective is way worse. It doesn't feel that way, I'll be very honest. The best writing partner I've ever had is AI. So I have a bizarrely, um, almost ridiculously optimistic view of AI and how it's going to help with loneliness. You said you'd rather talk to AI than, uh, you said GP, I think, doctor. There's data on AI therapists being better, like I really, I worry, there's no doubt, because there are always unintended consequences. And I think, um, investing in humans and all that is always the right default answer.

• 52:40Tom Bilyeu?

  But, uh, man, I interface with AI a lot. It's amazing. I am absolutely blown away. And so.

• 52:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Not having an addictive personality and having an incredibly strong marriage, it doesn't scare me. But then when I abstract that to people who do have an addictive personality and don't have a tight family of some kind, I worry that it does derange in some way. How are you, how are you setting your kids up? Like, what's the foundational knowledge set you're giving them about how to interface?

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I believe in high agency generalists of the future. So high agency is your ability to affect change, your ability to get things done. So a belief in self, a belief in things like, high agency is things like, unless it's a law of physics, it's up for negotiation.

• 53:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Yep.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Agency is if the resource exists anywhere on the planet, we can have a conversation about how it gets used. That's a high agency belief. Another high agency belief would be speed matters. Let's get this faster than slower, faster would be better than slower. High agency is probably do the thing.

• 53:54Tom Bilyeu?

  This is your framework that you're giving your kids for AI?

• 53:57Speaker 01

  No, for life. So like, I want, because school doesn't teach high agency. So I want my kids to have an understanding of high agency and to cultivate agency in them. And then generalism, being a generalist is knowing a little bit about law. So you can direct a legal contract to be created, to know a bit about history, so you can understand whether there's a historical context or something, to understand a bit about geography, so that you understand why the US is more insulated than China, to know a little bit about politics, to know a little bit about the Roman Empire and the British Empire, to know a little bit about science and how proteins and protein folding might work. So enough to know a little bit about it,

• 54:41Speaker 01

  so that if you want to go down the rabbit hole for a day or two days or a week, you can just go, I'm all in on protein folding now. I'm watching every YouTube video. I'm condensing everything that I need so that I can get this thing done. And now I can just pull back from that. And now I'm all in on the breeding patterns of sparrows, right? It's like, whatever is the thing. So it's this, being a high agency generalist is that I'm not pigeonholed into being a dentist or an anesthesiologist, and that's all I, all I can do. It's like, no, no, I can do anything. And I can just pick what I wanna pick what I wanna do, right? I I can get it done and I can learn it and and figure it out.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  So when we take a team of high agency generalists who get together based on their energy patterns, not their skill set and their chemistry, not based on their education, then you only need five to 10 people to create an extraordinarily successful venture.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  By the time my kids are older, either that or we'll have hit such a point where it's all pointless. There's such a surplus of value being automated into existence that actually life becomes about festivals, monuments, creativity for creativity's sake, writing a song because it's fun to do. And it's once again, it's five to 10 people working together on this project for fun. Five to 10 people working on this project for fun. The downside of the agricultural age and the feudal system is almost no social mobility whatsoever, like a completely foreign concept to someone living in 1600s.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  So you you were born into a family and that's where you stay for the rest of your life. Somehow like and that that is the backdrop of a super high automated system. That that there's no breaking free of that system. You just enjoy your place in life and you let the chips fall where they may and, you know, make the best of your situation. So I don't I don't know whether we actually end up in that place. Where there's almost no social mobility because everything's automated. If that if that is the case, then unfortunately, uh, in enjoy enjoy your spot, right? And have have a great time and you you live in an age of abundance. You'll be able to travel anywhere, eat anything, all of that sort of stuff. But you'll you'll be in a lane and you'll be stuck in that line.

• 57:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Daniel, it's not at all surprising to me that you have become as popular on the podcasting circuit as you've become. Where can people follow along with you?

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Connect with me on LinkedIn, Instagram, X. I have a few different companies. I've got ScoreApp. I've launched BookMagic.ai for writing a book. I'm about to launch an awards app, which is for winning awards for your business. So I'm kind of like building projects and like putting, I've got about seven different companies at the moment. Dent Accelerators is where we actually run an entrepreneur accelerator to talk more and learn more about this sort of stuff as a group. So you can find any of those companies, DanielPriestley.com, I think, has a list of it all. So that would, that would actually be a really good place to start, DanielPriestley.com.

• 57:51Tom Bilyeu?

  I love it.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me on the show, man.

• 57:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Thank you for being here. May this be the first of many. This was definitely a lot of fun.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  It was great fun. Thank you.

• 57:59Tom Bilyeu?

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• 58:42Tom Bilyeu?

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