Ilhan Omar’s Legal Woes, CoreWeave’s Financial Crash, and Why Everyone’s Talking Comedy Again

Hey everybody, Tom Bilyeu here. On today’s episode of The Tom Bilyeu Show, we’re tackling the wild ride that is the current news cycle—where politics, war, tech, and culture are colliding in bigger ways than ever. We’ll kick things off dissecting the DOJ’s raid on Ilhan Omar’s house—a move loaded with political implications just as the midterms are heating up. Are we entering a dangerous era of weaponized justice, or is there real fire behind all that smoke? From there, we’ll jump across the globe to unpack the rumors swirling around Trump, Elon Musk, and a supposed secret tech war playing out in Ukraine, where even Starlink satellites have become battlegrounds. Next up, the Houthis have thrown the global energy market into chaos with direct hits on Saudi Aramco, raising the stakes for every nation relying on fossil fuels. What does this mean for energy prices and economic stability going forward? But we're just getting started—because the AI industry is facing its own crisis, with CoreWeave’s bonds going off the rails and fresh scandals hitting OpenAI, including an alleged espionage plot involving the FBI. We won’t shy away from tough questions about how compromised our most important tech companies might already be. Finally, on the culture front, we dive into Shane Gillis’ viral SNL joke that’s split the internet and sparked fierce debate about comedy, offense, and the persistence of “Woke 1.0.” Are we losing our sense of humor, or is there a deeper reckoning underway about gender, power, and public discourse? I’ll be teaming up with Drew to break down the news, challenge our assumptions, and confront what these headlines really mean for civil society—from trust in our institutions to our ability to even have uncomfortable conversations. Stay tuned—this episode is going to push past the surface and bring you the insights you need to navigate the chaos. What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: Want my help starting a business? Join me here inside Zero To Founder https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show Sign up for my AI Masterclass: AI Masterclass https://tombilyeu.com/ai-masterclass?utm_campaign=Live%20Masterclass&utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=evergreen Follow Me: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Thank you to our sponsors: Tailor Brands: Check out Tailor Brands to launch your business starting at $0 + state fees: https://bit.ly/TailorBrandsSept Quince: Free shipping and 365-day returns at https://quince.com/impactpod Incogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code IMPACT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/impact Pipedrive: Get more leads and grow your business. Go to https://www.pipedrive.com/impact and get started with a 30-day free trial. Netsuite: For the first time ever you can try NetSuite Next for free. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, go to https://NetSuite.ai/Theory https://netsuite.ai/Theory. Butcherbox: Go to https://ButcherBox.com/IMPACT https://butcherbox.com/IMPACT to get $20 off your first box, plus your choice of free ribeye, new york strip, or filet mignon in every box for a year — with free shipping always. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 1:01Speaker 00

  The DOJ raided Ilhan Omar's house and the whole situation is likely much worse than people realize. Rumors are flying that Trump is using Elon to wage a secret war against Zelensky and Ukraine. We've got some more details there. The Houthis have once again hammered Saudi Arabia. And with the Aramco facilities basically burning to the ground, the question becomes, how much worse is the energy crisis going to get at this point? The AI debt problem is getting more extreme by the day with core weave bonds doing something insane. The OpenAI spy situation is completely out of pocket. The FBI is involved. ChatGPT is involved. But just how compromised is OpenAI at this point?

• 1:46Speaker 00

  And Woke 1.0 is still alive and kicking because a single Shane Gillis joke has split the internet in half. All of that and more right now on the Tom Bilyeu Show Live. Welcome, everybody. All right. The world is continuing to be more and more strange as we approach the midterms. The DOJ raided Ilhan Omar's house and the whole situation is likely much worse than people are putting together at this point. On October 12th, at 6:00 in the morning, Homeland Security agents raided Ilhan Omar's DC home armed with a federal search warrant as a part of an ongoing criminal investigation. They snatched up a bunch of boxes of documents

• 2:29Speaker 00

  and then left in a cloud of secrecy. The DOJ would only say that it had secured the warrant and that the investigation was ongoing. Now rumors are just absolutely whipping around, but so far, no charges have been filed. And they honestly haven't even named a crime that they're accusing Ilhan Omar of at this point. Now, listen, she could be as guilty as the day is long. That is possible. But the timing of this, from where I'm sitting, is just way too conveniently tied to the midterms. Now, it's not necessarily about her runoff, given that she's in one of the safest districts in the country. They're going to vote blue. That is just a forschwayes at this point.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  But as a way, uh, one way to read this would be that Trump is trying to flex to show his base that he's doing something. But my question becomes, doing something about what exactly? That's the question. And this is where I would like to offer a warning to the Trump administration right now. Right now, I am assuming that this really is a case of the Trump administration weaponizing the Justice Department. And I am no fan of Ilhan Omar's policies or her view of America. But if the way that the Trump administration is approaching this is simply, well, you guys did it to me and now I'm going to be doing it back to you, that is a recipe for disaster. This is exactly how we end up in a populist death loop

• 3:57Speaker 00

  where everybody is weaponizing the Justice Department against everybody else. And whenever somebody comes into power, they are going to pursue you. This is precisely how you get a country to tear itself apart from the inside. Is there so much infighting? There's so much weaponization of the legal system against each other that it becomes completely dysfunctional. And so while I understand you may view this woman as a political opponent, you may hate her policies as much as I do or more. If you go about pursuing something that isn't absolutely airtight and worthy of going after her for, this is ultimately going to backfire. It's going to backfire in terms of a loss of confidence in the public. You certainly have people like me

• 4:42Speaker 00

  that are just looking at all of this with a skeptical eye. I just have a default assumption that what we're going to find as we dig into this is likely not to be as bad as we think in terms of the legality of whatever she's done. And so when you start doing that, you've got people that, even though they may agree with wanting to diffuse these policies from working their way through, they look at this with a very skeptical eye. So you start losing the faith of people that even agree with you on a policy perspective. And you're going to make it worse for yourself the next time that you're out of power. Any side that thinks that they are going to be in power forever is a fool. Any side that wants to have a one-party state is a fool.

• 5:27Speaker 00

  And that's why the founding fathers put the country together on the back of principles of men tend towards tyranny, governments tend towards tyranny. And the very thing that you have to protect yourself against is that, that you shouldn't long for a one-party state. You should long for two groups that are both meeting closer to the middle and are trying to navigate our way through this in dynamic tension that holds everybody accountable, that everybody has a voice and that together we're able to steer the country somewhere that is highly useful to the populace. But that is just aggressively not where we are right now. Now, to be abundantly clear, if Ilhan Omar truly did something illegal, then you've got to take her down, as would be true of anybody.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  As each side likes to remind us when they're the ones in power, nobody is above the law, and that is certainly true. But if this ends up being a fringe case where they're trying to stretch something that's real but minor into something major, then this really is going to be a problem. And that's why I say that this is probably going to end up being worse than people are realizing because there's really, there's only one good outcome here. And the good outcome is still bad. And that's if we find that Ilhan Omar really has been doing something dodgy and that it's extreme enough to warrant all of this energy right up to the midterms, that's already a terrible outcome. If, on the other hand, this ends up being like the persecution of Trump,

• 6:57Speaker 00

  where it was completely motivated by politics, there wasn't any sort of grand big smoking gun that they went after him for, and they were basically making all kinds of concessions and pursuing him in a way that they historically have not pursued anybody else. If it ends up being that, this is just a further degradation of the credibility of our entire political apparatus. So neither of these are great outcomes. If we're going to separate what we know from what's just rumor, it goes something like this. Sources have told CBS, Fox and the Washington Post that the case is about Omar's naturalization paperwork specifically forms her late father filled, filled out in the 90s.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  And whether they contain false statements, basically about her age. That seems to be, again, this is rumor. We don't know the full story. There are intimations that there's something much larger going on. That's going to come out in the fullness of time. But the thing that people are talking about right now is that, did her father lie and say that she was a year younger than she actually is? Because if that's true, then she wouldn't have qualified for refugee status when she came into the country. Because she would have been, what, 18 instead of 17? Now, if that's true, obviously you've got a problem. But then we have to say, okay, you have a sitting member of Congress

• 8:20Speaker 00

  who, her father, we'll say, lied about her age back in the day. Is that the kind of thing that we want to denaturalize somebody who's a sitting member of Congress and try to eject them out? I would say, this is one of those things where it would fall into that gray area where people are going to have very big cause to say, you have weaponized the legal system against her. I'm not saying in that case that nothing was done wrong, but I am saying like, god damn, do we want people going back years and years at this point? By the way, Ilhan Omar is in her late 40s. So we're talking about something that is roughly 30 years ago. So this is where I would say, as one man screaming into the microphone on the internet, that that is not the kind of attack pattern

• 9:05Speaker 00

  that you want to get into. Now, what I think that they're hoping is that they can start associating this with a lot of the fraud that's going on in Minnesota. And they want there to be sort of this looming sense that she's tied to something else. But so far, that isn't what we're seeing. So you've got an NBC source that's saying that the probe has been running for years. People are pointing out that this is an investigation that actually started under Biden. So keep that all in mind as we start parsing through what's going on here. But you've got people saying, oh, this is like some much bigger RICO charge and this is a part of like something much bigger. I think it was the Feeding Our Future fraud scandal. They're trying to associate her with that.

• 9:47Speaker 00

  But there's nothing in the way that people are, who is being subpoenaed that would lead me to believe, or I think anybody rational at this stage, that that's what this is really about. Even the Feeding Our Future wasn't a RICO charge. So that, I think, is people trying to basically pull her closer and closer to those accusations, even though what's going on right now probably has little or absolutely nothing to do with that. So again, no matter what you think about her politics, the overriding thing that people should be thinking about right now is what are the behaviors of a functioning government that still has integrity? And I would say, when you're going after relatively small things

• 10:32Speaker 00

  with this degree of aggression, that is a bad look. And flip it to when it's being used against you. And if you don't want this kind of thing being used against you, don't use it against your enemies. Now, I get it. This was done to Trump in the run-up to the most recent election, but it is very unwise, in my opinion, to keep this running. So, uh, we'll need to wait and see what information comes out in the fullness of time. But this is, from where I'm sitting, a very unwise approach at this time, from what we know. We're hitting pause for a moment, but there's plenty more ahead, so don't go anywhere. There's a reason Quince sells cashmere for $60, and it isn't the cashmere.

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• 14:39Speaker 00

  Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's one of those things, some people are calling in an October surprise special from the Republican regime, trying to figure out if there's smoke, there's fire, if they could find something, if they could plant something, if they could have something that could make headlines, right, leading up to the midterms.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  That certainly seems very believable from where I'm sitting. Again, it's early, let this play out. The timing is super suspicious. If this really is just about the immigration, I really hope that they've got a bigger smoking gun than her dad lied about her age. Now, some of this has a knock-on effect because people are saying that her own staff, I think, were the ones that updated her birth date in the records. And if that's true, okay, that becomes a bigger issue. So it's not that there's nothing to look at here, it's just that, oh my God, this does not feel good. I don't want to see our justice system weaponized.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  I go back to what happened with Nixon, and it was like, the whole idea was we need to look forward as a country. We're not going to pursue him legally, we just need to look forward as a country. And right now, we, there's no sentiment of we need to look forward as a country. There's infighting, there is all this intrigue going on where how many people can we tear down within the system? Again, if people are doing truly nefarious things, 1,000%. If she's actually involved in fraud, 1,000%! Prosecute her to the fullest extent of the law. But if it ends up being a minor infraction, that's where I'm like, don't get bloodthirsty. That, that's not the way to play this. Figure out why she's getting elected, figure out why the policies are popping off. Solve for that problem.

• 16:21Speaker 00

  If you think those policies are bad for America, solve for that problem rather than just trying to attack your opponent because you don't like the way that they think.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  I'm seeing a lot of people trying, want her to be made an example out of. People are trying to foredo her due process and just say, we need to just ban her, we need to deport her. I don't care if she lied 30 years ago, it's not worth it. Do you think that there is a need for America to re-gain trust in institutions? Even if that means sidestepping some traditional constitutional protections or something like that?

• 16:53Speaker 00

  Ooh, sidestepping constitutional protections. So, no, we should not be sidestepping constitutional protections, so let's talk about that. Does the government need to re-establish its credibility? Yes, we need to re-establish the, I don't even know what the right word for this is, but the, the soft things that we all agree as a culture, we just don't do. For a long time, in fact, until, what was it? Roosevelt, I think? Until Roosevelt came along, there, it was just like a gentleman's agreement that you only ran for two terms. It was a norm that was set up when Washington had an opportunity to essentially become King of America. And he said, nope, that's not how this game should be played. We need to peacefully transition power.

• 17:37Speaker 00

  And for a long time, we just peacefully transitioned power. Obviously, I'm not blind to the Civil War, but like, it was, for most intents and purposes, for the vast, vast, vast majority of that time, all you needed was a gentleman's agreement. Then you get Roosevelt in office, he's a very controversial figure. And we go, okay, hold on, this guy was trying to do some crazy shit. Things that we see actually being put forward now, like packing the court, things like that. And so we actually did a constitutional amendment, and we said, two terms, that's it, that's all the executive branch gets. So that idea of they're just being established norms and we all agree for the betterment of the country, we're not going to violate these norms. We need to re-anchor the country around that.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  We need somebody with a moral core who focuses on things like virtue, integrity. Right now, in a populist moment, I understand that sounds naive and ridiculous. Mark my words, in the, the long history of this country, we will have to eventually find our way back to that. If we don't find our way back to a shared sense of what is right and wrong without every word having to be written down, we are in for a bad time. America is going to, this is me being very optimistic, America is going to find its way back to that. Whether on the left or the right, we need a leader who puts that forward.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Obviously, I've been sort of naked in the, the politician I see behaving in the way that I want to see people behave is Marco Rubio. And the speech that he gave in front of the, the, I guess it's the Parthenon in Greece? Is that the one I can never remember, which is in Italy and which is in Greece? But anyway, talking about antiquity, talking about virtue, talking about the philosophical underpinning, underpinnings of democracy and how much we learned from that era. How many of the ideas that held civilization together for so long were these just soft beliefs that everybody held? And we've got to get back to that. So paint me a vision of where you want to take the country that is inspiring,

• 19:45Speaker 00

  that speaks to people on either side of the aisle. That is absolutely where we have to get, and all of this is the exact opposite of that.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's interesting, I just, I'm very timid about people throwing out due process, people throwing out immigration law and things like that.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  Do you mean timid?

• 20:06Speaker 02

  I do mean timid. It's like I'm, I'm getting... Weird and antsy and I feel uncharacteristic of myself because of how flippant everybody is and okay with that. It's kind of like when ICE raids first start and they were just grabbing people and deporting them to some other country. American citizens included, everybody was like, so what? They're illegal. Get them out of here. And I'm like, okay, so you're okay with masked men showing up at your door and grabbing you and that being valid? Just, just those three variables. That's all that they need and they can just say illegal and grab you and do whatever they want with you. It's kind of like the Patriot Act. It's like, yes, I wanted us to find the people who did nine 11. But now everything that we do, everything that we monitor is monitored, every electronic communication is viewed.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  And if you're viewed as a terrorist, all your rights get stripped and you're in Guantanamo. So it's one of those things where it's like, I get what you're trying to fix, but we should respect due process. We should expect the legal system. We should respect warrants. We should respect the whole criminal process.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  Yes, and I would say that you do have to then make contact with reality. And this is where I think that the current political apparatus on both sides have not found the middle ground where I think you have to look at immigration and run the math. And you're going to see there's way too many people here illegally for us to give like full blown due process. You're a citizen. This is how we're going to treat this. But I do think that they need to systematize it and say, okay, we're going to go through the court system. We're going to establish a blanket way that we're going to deal with this. And if I remember right, the Trump administration actually did this. And there was a judicial ruling on, okay, full due process that you would normally give a citizen, we do not have to give to people that are here illegally.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  Cool. I'm good with that. You went through the court system. You established new precedent and now we're going to move forward. You do have to do that because the millions of court cases, you just won't be able to get them through. And so you're effectively saying, uh, the system has been overwhelmed. And so even though we all agree, this is a terrible idea to have this many illegal people in the country. We're now paralyzed because the system simply cannot process this many people. So I think that you do have to go, okay, there is a reality to be faced here. And so I'm not going to put forward my policy prescription in a vacuum. This is how I feel about Israel, Palestine. I'm not going to put forward my sort of emotional moral standing in a vacuum, knowing that it just can't be actually executed.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  And that the default of me using the sort of moral stance as a roadblock to actual logistically handling the problem. I think that is hyper ill advised and is one of the ways that Israel, Palestine becomes the easiest way to talk about this. It, it becomes paralyzing in that now you just accept a default answer where the strong will do as they will, and the weak will suffer as they must. And people are just like, yeah. And, and so now the, the people coming to the moral aid of Palestine, leave Palestine in a position where, okay, they're just going to keep getting hammered. And then they're getting hammered until what point that the international community turns on Israel, isolates them, and then they get overrun?

• 23:11Speaker 00

  Like, is that really what you guys want? I just want people to play that out. So if you then put that back on the situation that we're going through now, and it's like, okay, you don't like, um, the unchecked immigration. Maybe for you, this is a, I don't like the Islamification of Europe, and I see some of that happening here, uh, in America, and I want to nip that in the bud early. Okay, cool. But now play out the second and third order consequences of what exactly does this look like? If you, uh, bung up the system and you say each and every one of these illegal aliens is going to get the full, um, court treatment. Okay. What does that cost? How long does that take? Is that just de facto saying these people are going to, uh, be here for decades and we're never going to go through that process?

• 23:56Speaker 00

  And then same on my side of the equation. So if you go through the judiciary system, you come up with a new precedent. Does it, like you're pointing out with the Patriot Act, does it break something else that actually isn't worth breaking? Now, in that case, I would say it does not, but that's at least a worthy debate. But that's people talking about the very understandable consequences of the policies that they're going to enact. So now we're having a conversation at the level of logistics, which is going to be far more fruitful. But it needs to be logistics based on a principle, a principle that doesn't necessarily have to be documented. It's something that we all agree is how we ought to be behaving. And that's the conversation right now that we seem just categorically incapable of having. And to me, that's where all these problems start.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Starting to ripple through. We shall see, especially as these different topics start to intersect and overlap and things like that. So we'll keep it, we'll keep you guys posted on the Ilhan Omar situation.

• 24:51Speaker 00

  This is going to develop.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Once the charge gets released, once the results of the warrant are shared with the public. All right. We have to jump over to Ukraine where right now it seems that Trump might've done something petty. Um, let's break it down for us, huh?

• 25:05Speaker 00

  All right. So there's a lot about this that we don't know, but rumors are flying that Trump is using Elon to wage a secret war against Zelensky and Ukraine. Which is calling into question, where are Trump's allegiances? Is he going to bat for Russia? Like, what is this? So Trump has made absolutely no secret about the fact that he thinks Zelensky needs to be replaced, that he thinks Zelensky is never going to agree to any sort of peace deal. He's not a dealmaker. He's not somebody that we can work with. So Trump's just been way too naked about that. And what just happened is SpaceX apparently put a speed limit on Starlink last night. And it threw a major wrench in Ukraine's attack plans on Russia.

• 25:47Speaker 00

  Now there's a wrinkle in this story that we're going to get to. It's actually pretty wild and I didn't know about it before researching this. But before we get to that, so Zelensky's advisor on defense technology confirmed that this speed limit did indeed hap- did indeed happen. And any Starshield terminal, which is the military package in Starlink's fleet of satellites, uh, said basically it's been updated now. So anything moving faster than a hundred miles per hour is going to lose connection. Now, Starlink has not commented. SpaceX has not commented. So we don't know for sure what happened. But the question is, why would this happen? Now, it happened without warning. So that's the part that Ukraine is really upset about.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  And because of the change, several Ukrainian attack missions failed mid-flight. Reuters reported that Ukraine was forced to cancel drone operations outright. And that drones were dropping their link for up to 20 seconds, even at speeds as low as 68 miles per hour. So that begs the question, then what is the real speed limit? Because if things at 68 miles per hour are losing connection, clearly it's not just 100 miles per hour. And then ultimately, what's the goal of the change if this was indeed intentional? Now, given that things less than a hundred miles an hour were losing connectivity, was this on purpose? Was this a technical glitch? What happened?

• 27:09Speaker 00

  And by the way, all of this is happening on the Ukrainian side while Russia is still able to attack and hit Ukraine. And if you remember a couple of days ago, we were talking about, hey, Trump announced that there was an energy ceasefire. But through all of that, Russia's just kept hitting the energy infrastructure of Ukraine. And now it seems like Ukraine obviously is like, okay, well, this isn't real. So we're going to start hitting back. And so I've seen reports that they did in fact, strike back overnight. But I don't know how much credence to give those reports, given that Ukraine itself is complaining that they were losing a bunch of the connectivity. So I don't know if it was some made it through, uh, and others didn't, or what the real story is going to be in the fullness of time.

• 27:53Speaker 00

  But what we do know is obviously the satellites didn't change. So every Starlink dish knows its own speed from GPS and SpaceX had written a rule. And it was basically if things are too fast, then you're not going to get a signal. And it's the same switch that keeps Starlink dark inside of Russia. And a terminal doing a hundred miles an hour, um, basically is, is going to get dropped on either side. So is it just that Russia's found its way around this or what? That's the, the big question. Now, the fascinating thing, the part that I didn't know about this is that the speed limit was actually originally put in place by Ukraine. So they had requested this. So the whole thing was that, uh, this was back in February at Ukraine's request.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  Russian forces were basically strapping Starlink terminals onto BM 35 strike drones and Shahids to extend their range. And Ukraine's defense minister directly asked SpaceX to shut them down. And then SpaceX responded with this speed cap that we're talking about right now. Now they had given exceptions to things on the Ukrainian side. So my guess at this point is that that's what ended up breaking down. They're like, hey, we weren't being affected by this speed limit. You guys were carving out certain things for us. And now that carve out seems to be the thing that was broken. Again, so much of this stuff is rumor. This is a live situation developing. We'll find out in the coming days, especially when SpaceX finally actually gives an answer to what's going on here.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  But man, the fact that this is coming on the back of Trump's most recent expressed, nakedly expressed frustrations with Zelensky, uh, and Ukraine. It is all pretty suspect. Now, on the Ukrainian side, you've got the, um, the weapons advisor saying that this just can't be a coincidence. So I agree, it seems pretty unlikely that this just happened randomly. But we haven't heard anything from the Trump administration yet on that side. Now, how are people going to feel if Trump is coming down on the side of Russia? That is a very big question, man. Nobody, not even Trump, has denied that Russia has been the aggressor here.

• 30:02Speaker 00

  And this is the absolutely fascinating part about war is everybody cares about, uh, you know, what side is right and wrong until it starts hitting their gas prices. And then all of a sudden people are like, oh, actually what I care about is how much I'm paying at the pump. So man, it's pretty wild. It's pretty wild. Remember, Russia invaded Ukraine. They are trying to annex territory in Ukraine. Whether or not you believe that they're trying to access that, uh, territory because the US kept encroaching on their border, which I think is a pretty reasonable read. Or just that Putin is trying to reassemble the USSR, which I also think is a pretty credible read. It doesn't really matter.

• 30:45Speaker 00

  A sovereign nation was invaded by another nation. And they are trying to take that territory. And so whatever point Putin was trying to make about, hey, don't fucking bring the NATO border right up to my border. I'm going to feel some type of way. It's like that point has been made. And we looked this up on Monday. The Ukraine Russia conflict has now been going on longer than World War I. So at this point, it's just

• 31:12Speaker 02

  Unbelievable stat.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  It is insane. It's insane. So, uh, yeah. This is where I will remind everybody, there is no international, uh, court. There's no international laws. There is only, we won, we're now in control. Uh, and if we want to put you on trial, we'll put you on trial. But ultimately you first have to win the war. That's just the, the hard reality to be faced. And so now this is getting muddy. If, it's a big if, if this was done on purpose to send a message to Ukraine or to weaken them in some way, or send a message to Europe and Ukraine. I mean, all of this stuff gets pretty messy. If you are now removing sanctions on Russian oil, putting money back in their economy, which they will guaranteed use

• 31:57Speaker 00

  to continue fighting the war against Ukraine. And now the carve outs that you originally had for Ukrainian technology to make sure that they were able to stand up for themselves. You at least temporarily disabled that without warning. Is that going to end the conflict? So that becomes a question. And if it is going to end the conflict, it's going to end the conflict by weakening the guy that's trying to stand up for their own sovereign nation. That is the wild part of all of this. Now, listen, I agree. At some point, Ukraine has to say, I just don't want more people to die. And so if I have to peel off a part of the country, so be it. But man, you can't really. I mean, you can make these demands that people do all the time,

• 32:41Speaker 00

  but it is pretty shitty to look at the little guy who got invaded and be like, yeah, you need to stop fighting now because it's fucking up my oil and my peace prize. So, yeah, shit is wild.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Amen.

• 32:53Speaker 00

  So gross. I really hate this part of

• 32:54Speaker 02

  I, I feel like there's not an equivalent there because on Monday we were talking about the Palestinians and you were just like, they just need to sit down and give it up and just realize that this religious war is not profitable.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  Okay, so now you want, are you asking me to square that circle?

• 33:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I feel like that's a compatible ask to Ukraine, right?

• 33:09Speaker 00

  Aggressively square that circle. So first of all, if Ukraine wants to keep fighting, I think that that's a decision they're going to get to make. There are realities about who's going to supply them with weapons and all that stuff at some point. Uh, but yeah, if Ukraine wants to keep fighting, I completely understand. If I'm going to advise them though, my advice would be, guys, at some point you've got to start orienting towards the future. So they're going to have to run calculus. If we, um, say, okay, here are the lines that we're going to draw. We want peace. Uh, and they believe that doing so will just embolden Putin and he's just going to attack again. I get it. I get why you might see that this is an existential fight that you have to keep fighting. Now, ultimately, what I would say to any nation is you need to be thinking about your kids. What's going to be better for them?

• 33:54Speaker 00

  And if fighting now and dying now, uh, more and more and more. And dude, there, there are, uh, I don't know how verified these reports are, but there are supposedly Synoloan cartel members that are fighting on behalf of Ukraine. You're not in good shape when you're going out and getting drug lords to come and fight for you, who by the way, are going to take that training back to Mexico. That let us not fractal onto that. But clearly they're not in the best of shape. Uh, so they need to be very thoughtful about what's going to be better for their citizens moving forward. It's a very difficult game. When I go and look at the, um, the conflict between Israel and Palestine,

• 34:35Speaker 00

  that one is never ending madness that has to do with psychology and psychology alone. They've rejected a two state solution for God knows how long. They almost certainly should have taken it a long time ago, but they didn't, whatever. We are where we are. Okay, so now, given where we are at, uh, how much do you want to ask your children to suffer so that Israel will cease to exist? Which really does seem to be the motivating factor. When I go, oh, they really want Israel to just not exist anymore as a country. That's where I'm like, wow, that is going to be a very big ask. They are far stronger than you from a military perspective. And your only hope is something that will almost certainly take decades

• 35:19Speaker 00

  and decades to play out, where you hope that the international community isolates them, that then some force invades them and ends up stopping their ability to protect their own borders. And so that's one where I'm like, okay, this kind of, um, thing has happened before where you, you have lost. Ukraine hasn't lost yet, but Palestine has lost. They, they can do, um, terror-esque strikes to get at the heart of the enemy and to, um, basically kick the hornet's nest. But militarily, I don't think anybody in their right mind thinks that Palestine has a chance of winning.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  So now, in the same way that I think Cyprus was very wise to say, uh, okay, they just stole half of our island, Turkey. We're not going to wage a 50 year war over this. We are going to focus on our economy. And they're through political means, they're trying to get somebody to tell Turkey still 50 years later to get the fuck out. But basically that's a non-entity. But what they're not doing is waging countless years of war over it and, you know, doing terroristic attacks on, um, uh, on the northern part of the island. And because of that, Cyprus has been able to build up an economy and raise multiple generations that think about their future. And it's, I've been there.

• 36:43Speaker 00

  It's a lovely country, um, that is doing its best to continue to grow its economy and, and, uh, you know, join the rest of the world. So that seems a far wiser approach. When you know from a military perspective, you cannot win, to say, we're going to be forward facing. And so that would be my advice to the Palestinian people is when you get billions of dollars flowing into your country in international aid, because people want to see you succeed, focus on economics. If you think you have a shot to win militarily, yeah, go for it. But if you don't, like, god damn, what are you doing?

• 37:22Speaker 02

  So then from that standpoint, until Ukraine lose, like, loss, loses, by whatever definition we can come up with, that's when it's then time for them to say, okay, we should back off, let Russia have these territories or is there?

• 37:36Speaker 00

  If, if, like, imagine for a second that this is an obvious, uh, military victory for Russia. Uh, there is

• 37:44Speaker 02

  How did, like, just let's define that because I don't know what obvious military, like, what do you mean by that, like?

• 37:47Speaker 00

  Well, an easy example is Israel Palestine. So they killed 1,200 and then they lost whatever 75,000.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  You, you do not, they literally, there's like 80% of all buildings in Gaza have been damaged. 80%? Kids, you've lost. And so now at this point, your only hope is to continue to be an underground insurgency. And, uh, at some point, unless they believe, if you're Palestine, the only, um, base assumption that would make sense to me is if you believe, no, no, no, they're just going to keep taking over territory in Gaza until we're all gone. And so this is an existential fight. If you really believe that, then of course they're, they're going to continue to act the way that they're acting. But given the way that they have spent the billions of dollars of aid

• 38:36Speaker 00

  that flowed into their country, um, they are, they are behaving like a country who believes that they are doing God's work and that their goal is to, from the river to the sea. Given, uh, meaning that it's going to be one state, that it's going to be an Arab majority country. Uh, and that ultimately is what they're fighting for is the eradication of the Jewish state. That's where I'm just like, oh man, this, this seems a very unwise way to approach this, given how many generations you've already lost. Meaning that their sole focus is that battle, rather than building a hopeful economic future where people are getting educated, they're innovating in their country. They are increasing the quality of their life for 80 years.

• 39:18Speaker 00

  They have not increased the quality of life for their people. And so that's where I'm like, at some point, this is just a nonsensical way forward. And so many politicians have spilled ink over the fact that like, oh my God, we were so close to getting a deal. Uh, it would have been so good for their people to have their own state. And then they could have like gained credibility on the international stage. They could have built, um, you know, the country into something that would be a wonderful place that people want to live, that kids have hope for their future. And they're not thinking about wiping out another state. Like, imagine if every American were absolutely obsessed, willing to die and were dying constantly because we just got to get rid of Canada. It's like, Jesus, man, this is not a way to live, in my opinion.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. I get it. I think we got that one.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  We're hitting pause for a moment, but there's plenty more ahead, so don't go anywhere.

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• 41:46Speaker 00

  Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Let's jump over to Saudi where the Houthis are on ten again. There have been massive fires in the facilities in Riyadh. Houthis might be up right now because I feel like they attacked the airport, they're attacking the oil facilities, and I haven't seen a Saudi response yet.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  Oh, no, no, Saudis are responding. Saudis are responding. They're hitting stuff. The question is, is it going to matter? So right now Saudi Arabia is three times the size of Texas and they've got stuff all over the place. So it is going to be very hard for them to defend despite the fact that they have bought a whole bunch of weapons from the US. All right. What's going on? The Houthis have once again hammered Saudi Arabia. Now the Aramco facilities are on fire, whether it's burning to the ground or it's limited. The question becomes how much worse is the energy crisis going to get when you've got the nerve center of Aramco, one of the most important energy facilities on earth, being bombed at will

• 42:47Speaker 00

  by the Houthis? The Houthis put a missile directly into their headquarters in Daran. This was what, yesterday? And so that is the, one of the most important buildings of the biggest oil exporter on the Gulf Coast. So the fact that these, what we're being asked to believe are just like these insurgent fighters who are sitting a couple hundred miles away from Riyadh is, is pretty crazy. They're doing a ton of damage to one of the most important energy producers in the world. So now, and what you see on your screen, I

• 43:28Speaker 00

  believe, is the strike back. So this, you're seeing footage right now of Yemen being hit, the Houthis, who are in Yemen, being hit by Saudi Arabia. But the, the amount of damage that the Houthis are doing shows that these guys are learning, first of all, how to overwhelm the radar that Saudi has in place. They're able to hit at will at this point. And so this is not like a bunch of guys, like you'll so often hear this rounded to, a bunch of guys running around in sandals are, you know, doing XYZ. And it's like, these guys are showing a level of military sophistication that you underestimate at your peril as Saudi

• 44:07Speaker 00

  Arabia is learning the hard way. And so, yeah, you've got the Iranian-backed proxies showing that this region is very exposed. I won't say easy to hit, but very hit-to-bull for the Houthis. And so now you've got all kinds of question marks about the future of the region and whether these guys are going to be able to continue their run of stabilizing, normalizing relationships with Israel, focusing on transitioning their economy away from fossil fuels, basically. Again, look at China. Look at what China's doing and how much solar power and nuclear power they're bringing on board. I think it's pretty clear at this

• 44:50Speaker 00

  point that fossil fuels are a transitional energy and right at the point that the GCC nations, very specifically Saudi Arabia and the UAE, were using the money that they've been extracting from the ground in the form of oil. They've been using it to transition into a modern economy that was investing in future technologies, largely in the US stock market. So these guys were finding ways through tourism, they were building Neon City, like they had this whole big plan, I believe is, it's either the 2030 plan or 2035 plan, I can't remember. But they had this big plan and they were just using all of this wealth to transition their economy, diversify it. And brilliant, working. And

• 45:33Speaker 00

  now, all of a sudden, everything is imperiled. So we don't know where this is all going to go. We don't know where things are going to settle out. And an enemy that fears that it grows weaker over time is at its most dangerous. Iran clearly is growing weaker over time. The Houthis, if they're largely financially backed by the Iranians, they're growing weaker over time. And so everybody's trying to cause maximum damage now to try to reassert their authority in the hopes that people will leave them alone. But so far, that has not been the case. You've also got Trump promising, hey, literally, this is a paraphrase, but you guys know this is pretty close. Hey Houthis, remember, no matter

• 46:15Speaker 00

  what happens in the midterms, I'm still going to be here. And so I'm not going to forget. I think he said exactly like, and I'll remember. So he's clocking what everybody's doing. He's got a tally somewhere in his bedroom next to the bed. He's like marking, all right, blow up these motherfuckers after the midterms, blow up these guys after the midterms. And so we'll see what ends up happening. But this is not, these are not the moves of somebody who's going to see stability on the other side of this. And so it becomes a game of chicken with the US economy. And if oil prices get too out of pocket, if Trump really thinks, oh, I'm not going to survive this politically post midterms, then maybe you see him finding

• 46:59Speaker 00

  some other way to adjudicate this. But right now, I think that the Houthis can expect to get hit more and more. Saudi Arabia can expect to get hit more and more. And then there are questions about the UAE because you're getting promises from Iran that if the war starts up again after the midterms, they got all kinds of crazy plans up to and including cutting cables that run through what they're calling their territorial seabed. And so they're talking about fees that are going to have to be paid, that they'll cut the cable if they're forced to. So yeah, this, there are so many more ways for this to go wrong that you really do need people focused on economic cooperation if you want to see

• 47:43Speaker 00

  this end. And right now, we are about as far from that as you're going to get.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  All right, we were already talking about the AI problem. We're starting to see some financial cracks in the model. CoreWeave's bonds blew up 15.1% in a day. Break this down. I have so many questions about corporate bonds and how they like react to the market, but I'll let you.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  The AI debt problem is getting extreme. CoreWeave bond situation is literally insane at this point. CoreWeave's unsecure bonds crossed 1,000 basis points over treasuries, meaning people look at treasuries and go, all right, I got beef with treasuries. But I look at these corporate bonds at CoreWeave and I'm like, god damn. So CoreWeave hit 15% interest. So imagine to get, if you want a US treasury, you're going to pay whatever, a little over 5% to convince people to hold that US treasury. If you want someone to hold CoreWeave, you're going to owe 15%. Some of the debt traded near 85 cents on

• 48:43Speaker 00

  the dollar. So that means people are going, nah, bro. If you want me to buy a dollar of that debt, you're going to sell it to me for 85 cents. That's crazy. These bonds were issued with coupons between 9 and 9.75%. So they are way up. And one of them was even trading above par as recently as April. So back in April, everybody was happy and now, eek. So at some point, we're going to look back on all of this and we're going to know what the indicator was where it was like, oh yeah, the bubble started deflating there. This is a contender for that. Now, if you want to know what CoreWeave does, CoreWeave

• 49:24Speaker 00

  basically buys up a bunch or rents a bunch of Nvidia GPUs. Well, they buy them and then they rent them out to other people. So they go up, gobble up Nvidia GPUs and then they rent them to OpenAI, Microsoft, Meta, Anthropic, whatever, whoever it's going to be. And so if you're Anthropic, for instance, you'll spin up some of your own data centers, but you're not going to want to take on all the debt for all of them. You don't have the staff to build them all out. So you're going to turn to companies like CoreWeave. And so for a minute, it looked like that kind of business model was just going to print money until the end of time. But when I talk about looking at the historical trend where, whether

• 50:05Speaker 00

  it's railroads, whether it's the canal build out in the UK, whether it was railroads here in the US, the great electrification, the internetification, whatever, it doesn't matter. These massively transformative, revolutionary technologies that require this massive infrastructure build out, historically speaking, every one of them had a period where it was like, people overbought the debt, they overbuilt, and the revenues weren't there to support it yet. They end up coming, but they're not there yet. And so a ton of companies and a ton of investors just get absolutely wiped out. So when you talk about people looking

• 50:48Speaker 00

  at this debt and going, yeah, 15%, that's like, I think they're now a CCC graded bond or they're like one step above it. So this is where, this is basically like junk bonds on the verge of becoming distressed bonds. So keep your eyes peeled. CoreWeave's a pretty big company. And we just had Character AI, if you guys have been paying attention to this, I don't know if you guys remember this, this might have been two years ago now at this point, or close, maybe 18 months. You had Character AI, I believe was the company where you had that kid who was talking to the AI and the AI was like, bro, you should just kill yourself. And so the kid did. So they've had all kinds of lawsuits. I imagine

• 51:31Speaker 00

  the lawsuits are a big part of the reason that they ended up going out of business. So you're starting to see like big name companies in the AI space declaring bankruptcy. You're starting to see the bonds get like way the fuck out of pocket. So yeah, these are not signs that everything is hunky dory. I will say that. Whether this actually is a sign that the AI bubble is starting to deflate, it's totally separate question. But this is not a good sign.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, the character AI thing was interesting. That was the, he fell in love with Khaleesi and she told him to off himself. Um, so seeing that company now get bankrupt, um, it's very, very interesting.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  It's interesting and by the way, not super surprising. Like back when that happened. So as somebody making a video game aimed at kids, you start looking at that stuff and it does, uh, give you pause. Like I really one day want to have AI characters inside of Kaizen that kids, uh, build a relationship with. I've got a whole idea. Started getting pretty serious about this until the character AI thing. And then I pumped the brakes. About, um, building like a little Furby that would be connected, like it would look like the character in the game. And it would share the same memory. And so whether the kid was in game or chilling with their Furby, they could be having an ongoing, um, you know, communication.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  And I saw that and I was like, yeah, we're gonna need some, uh, constraints for somebody to build around AI before we start doing that. Uh, so yeah, when I saw that one, I was like, okay, there's a real problem here that we're gonna have to, uh, solve before you can let kids have just unfettered relationships with AI. Uh, so we'll see. I think they'll ultimately solve for that, but woo. It's important that it be solved for.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. So we shall check it out. Um. Break down the significance of the corporate bond part, cause when corporate bonds spike, to me, I'm, you know, projecting, let me know if I'm like on, on the right path or not. To me, that's a sign that they need money, but people aren't willing to lend them money. So they have to increase the interest rates to make it more enticing for them to give them money.

• 53:34Speaker 00

  Hundred percent accurate.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 53:35Speaker 00

  So, uh, corporations are constantly borrowing bonds. And by the way, if we are in a position where financial repression is already happening, so imagine for a second. This, this is, um, some people say, as the statement goes, that real inflation is closer to eight percent. And if the government is only paying five percent and change, then you're already in financial repression. And so corporations will be able to borrow money from the government, knowing that the size of the debt, or they'll be able to issue a corporate bond, excuse me, they'll be able to issue that debt.

• 54:15Speaker 00

  And they know that because inflation is making debt smaller and smaller by the day, their debt becomes easier to pay off. So they issue these corporate bonds, inflation is, um, outstripping what people are getting paid to hold government debt. And so you are in an inflationary environment, no matter what people tell you. And so that debt is gonna get smaller and smaller and smaller. So that prompts these corporations to do things like issue, um, their corporate bonds, buying back their shares, which pumps their earnings per share. Uh, and now they're in a situation where they have an incentive structure to get more debt, more debt, more debt, more debt.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  And when that debt starts looking shaky, if their whole business model like CoreWeave is like, we take on an insane amount of debt. We build out all this massive infrastructure and then we rent this out. If the companies that they're renting it out to aren't getting the revenue that they need, and therefore they don't have the need for the compute. Now all of a sudden, CoreWeave is left holding the bag, having overbuilt out, having taken on too much debt. And then if they don't get the revenues, I'm gonna guess, I don't know that this is true of CoreWeave, but this is true of so many of them. Somewhere between 2027 and 2029, this becomes a catastrophic problem, uh, meaning they go bankrupt. So we'll see. The, it is, they're playing a game of chicken with the revenues in the AI industry.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  That's what I was gonna ask. Is this kind of a precursor canary in the coal mine to the AI industry at large? But I know they're using different financial vehicles. I didn't know if they overlapped or not.

• 55:48Speaker 00

  It is definitely a canary in terms of if there was, it, it's a canary of, of the AI trade, let's say that.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  So meaning, right now, everybody's making a bet that we're effectively going to need infinite compute. And so just keep building, keep building, keep building. And so there's so much debt that's already been taken on that, oh God. Again, the dates, I'm gonna get a little bit wrong, but somewhere between like 2029 and 2031, I think that's the right window. We're gonna need something like $2 trillion a year in revenue from the AI companies to justify the debt that they've already taken on. And they're nowhere near that. So, um, you've got a big gap in terms of the amount of revenue that's coming into the AI industry as a whole. And where they'll have to be in just a few short years, uh, when they have to start paying this debt back.

• 56:41Speaker 00

  So yeah, there's, the fact that CoreWeave is teetering on the brink between junk and distressed at this point already is not a good sign to that trade, because if people start backing off and they don't give any more money or they, it won't go to zero. But they start forcing these interest rates way high. They start being way more selective about what they're going to give, uh, their money to. Then you get a softening in the AI story and we're no longer attached to any fundamentals. So this becomes just, if people don't believe in the narrative, then they pull back. If they pull back and the AI trade wobbles, now you run into a problem where people can't get the money that they need.

• 57:24Speaker 00

  And, um, they're not able to generate the revenue. And now you get, uh, bubble burst or whatever, which is, I mean, I think all the old heads in the world of investing are like, every bubble pops. There is no bubble that just keeps inflating until the end of time. So this is gonna pop, it's just a question of when. And so that leaves everybody having to make a decision of when do I start changing my allocation. And if the allocation gets changed away from AI, then that becomes causative of the AI bubble deflating.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  It, it's interesting though, because we did so much of, um, I forgot what they call it, when they're taking the revenues that are happening in the future and they bring them to the front.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. When you value a company, you're doing that. So you're talking about discounted, uh, future cash flows.

• 58:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I mean. So we're already at like 200 times revenues on that $2 trillion.

• 58:15Speaker 00

  That would be extreme. I don't think we're quite there yet, unless you have something that says that exact number. I think it's, uh, in the extreme case with SpaceX AI, they were, they had valuations that were over a hundred. I haven't heard of anybody being near 200, but it's still, if the historical average is 16X, when you start talking about 100X, it's, that's pure insanity.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  So even if they do hit that $2 trillion, I feel like the upside is already captured already. Cause then at that point, it's like, yeah, you're supposed to do that.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's, it's weird. So if I'm a company and I'm already trading over my revenue at that level, I feel like it incentivizes you to get the check and cash out quicker than build it for longer.

• 58:55Speaker 00

  Well, this is part of the drama around what was SpaceX AI going public. And by the way, think what you will about Elon Musk. Yet again, that guy is the one that manages to be in the right place at the right time. The two, like his AI is third, fourth, fifth place. I mean, it's certainly not the, one of the top two. And those guys, you would have thought would capture that IPO, the like history making IPO. But now post Elon sliding in and making it happen, those guys are like delaying and trying to find like a new angle. And so it's possible that those guys don't IPO for a long time, or they don't IPO at the record setting levels that they thought they were going to IPO at.

• 59:37Speaker 00

  Because Elon got there first. It's wild that even with an inferior product, he's managed to capture the upside. But the question was, when he did that, was he just, was that IPO exit liquidity for the investors who had already captured all of the upside plus some? And that now all the retail investors are gonna be left holding the bag. That was certainly my read of it. I don't know where SpaceX AI is today, if they're trading above where they were at IPO. Last check, they were aggressively not.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:08Speaker 00

  So we'll see.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, this was, um, this didn't make the list, but it, because we're talking about it, cause it's kind of interesting that, um, the Kobe, Kobe's BC letter said just 10 stocks under 70 have driven 70% of the S and P 500 gains since March 30th. These stocks have added plus 16 percentage points on the index is plus 23 gain over this period. Um, Nvidia contributed the most, they have 13%, Micron, Apple, Microsoft.

• 1:00:33Speaker 00

  Basically, this is just Nvidia.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  AMD, Alphabet, Intel, Amazon, Broadcom, Meta, and then the other 490 stocks. So it's one of those things, if you take out AI, the S and P 500, either they're flat or slightly low.

• 1:00:45Speaker 00

  It's down.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  It's down.

• 1:00:46Speaker 00

  It's down. It's down like 5%, 4% or 5%, but it's, it is substantive.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  So it's already that the stock market is now stacked upon this AI. And then now we're starting to see these debt instruments, um, in the corporate bond starting to peak. So it's like, they're already propping one thing up. And then this other thing that they're doing outside of the prop up is now starting to crack too. So.

• 1:01:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Speaker 00

  Hence why, look, you're gonna hear, until it actually blows up in spectacular fashion, everybody's gonna be like, yo, this is super precarious. Now, it can be precarious for a very long time. It could still go up from here. So that's the problem. That's why this ultimately is gambling, because people are trying to figure out, okay, where do I go? What is safe? Uh, do I miss two or three years of gains that I could have had if I had had the balls to stay in the stock market? Or is before the end of this live, is it all going to implode and come crashing down? Nobody knows. And anybody that tells you that they know is crazy. Although, hey, uh, Paul Tudor Jones is letting you know, I'm short. I think he said through 2027.

• 1:01:51Speaker 00

  So he doesn't buy it, but he's an old head.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  The super chatter hopped in the chat. He said it was a Dr. Stone reference.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  Ah, I have not read or watched Dr. Stone, which is why I don't.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  Somebody was talking about that. I thought you watched it already.

• 1:02:04Speaker 00

  I know of Dr. Stone, but no, I've never watched it.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  Cool. Um, okay. AI, we're talking about it. They're American go broke soon. But what's gonna happen right now is that a Saudi national, Al Brahim Al Fazan, was arrested by the FBI as he was caught bugging the OpenAI executive conference room. This is gonna get interesting.

• 1:02:25Speaker 00

  They got you bitch. Like this, the OpenAI spy situation is crazy. The FBI is involved, ChatGPT is involved, but my question is, how compromised is OpenAI at this point? Obviously, they've got at least one guy, but I have a feeling where there's smoke, there's fire, and that they're going to find that there's way more corporate espionage than they realize. So OpenAI found a recording device in an executive conference room. They didn't have cameras on when it was put in place, but they then caught the guy on camera who placed it there when he came back to check on it. So he wrapped this thing in toilet paper and plugged it into a USB port at the back of the television.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  OpenAI says that it's run its own models on the device to figure out what it was and where it came from. And that's how they landed on the employee who had planted it days earlier. So at this point, ChatGPT is the new Sherlock Holmes. Dude, there, there is like a story hiding in this story that I want everybody to be aware of. So what does an AI company do when something dodgy has happened in their company? They give it to AI to help them figure out. This should be the like default human response is, I've got a thing happening. I need to check in with AI. I wanna see like, do they see an angle that I'm missing? You can basically aggregate all of the human conversations that are happening out on the internet about that thing.

• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  It's absolutely incredible. Anyway, the employee is Abdul Rahman. Yeah, Al Fazan, so 35 year old Saudi national and OpenAI engineer who joined in July of 2025. The FBI has arrested him at this point. He appeared in federal court yesterday on a charge of using a device to intercept oral communications. And basically, Al Fazan had put the device near it, I guess like six times in September with no authorization. And so they don't know for how long he's been doing this. And so OpenAI installed a camera to see like who's gonna come back. Of course, the guy does. They catch him on the camera looking behind the TV to find this thing.

• 1:04:35Speaker 00

  And then days before his arrest, I guess he'd also left an unattended bag in a different room that had a second recording device in it. So he's been like planting these things around. How many times did he get away with it? That to me is the big question. OpenAI says it has evidence that he had planned to bug even more of the building. And I guess he was, I think he used AI itself to like pull a bunch of different like schematics and stuff for the building. It's like, guys, this stuff isn't hidden. You, I get it. You wanna use AI as much as you can. I was just telling you to do it. But if you're doing nefarious shit, it's all being recorded, man. So yeah, be careful out there. So the question is like, what was caught before? How many more spies were in the building? Uh, all of that's gonna need to be figured out.

• 1:05:21Speaker 00

  The FBI director, Cash Patel, says that the target was capturing conversations about the company's superintelligence work. And so is he doing it for Saudi Arabia? Is he doing it for a competitive company? Is he doing it for a different state actor? Nobody knows. So the complaint doesn't say who, if anyone that he was working for. But OpenAI says that right now there's no sign that he was able to get a hold of model weights, source code, or customer data. So that's a good thing, but it's also still early, I would imagine, in the investigation. So the FBI is gonna be pursuing this. So we'll see. Now, whether AI has a deeper compromise problem

• 1:06:04Speaker 00

  uh, is gonna come down to obviously what this guy was able to get out and if there are more people in the building. And that we don't know at this point, but uh, as somebody who has been a victim of corporate espionage, uh, I know that it's rarely one person that, one, that the attacks are probably coming from multiple vectors. And so there are a lot of people that have an incentive to get people inside of their company. So yeah, we'll see how it plays out.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  You said earlier that AI companies are starting to protect themselves from like distillation, uh, things like that. Is it just now they moved on to like manned distillation or you know, is there some type of?

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  So there's gonna be, I, I would imagine that there are a lot of attack vectors. Uh, so you're gonna have hot women trying to sleep with these guys to get information about what they're doing. That's like time, uh, you know, a tale as old as time. So that you can basically count on. Um, so by the way, if you're an engineer in the AI space and a woman who is clearly out of your league suddenly shows interest, uh, yeah, that turn and run in the opposite direction. Um, and then you're gonna have stuff like this where people get a job inside the company and they go in. They're gonna be trying to do things. Uh, people will try to poach your former employees and get them to teach them everything that they can.

• 1:07:21Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, uh, the, using the technology itself to learn things. So that's part of what this guy was doing. And I would imagine, uh, especially if you count distillation attacks as part of that. So you'll have state actors, other businesses that wanna learn from what you're doing, trying to pry their way in, just generalized hackers. So there's that whole thing in France where they turned the freezers um, into like heaters, basically. Um, things like that where they'll try to find ways in just through the front door. Um, so yeah, you can expect hackers to do all kinds of stuff just to weaponize it. Um, a lot of attack vectors.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  Got you, got you. Cool. All right. Let's jump over to some culture stuff. Um, I was yesterday years old, um, when I found out that Kimberly Guilfoyle and Gavin Newsom used to be a couple.

• 1:08:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, and this, this woman is gonna have the greatest like tell all autobiography of all times. So not only was she formerly with Gavin Newsom, but I think she was engaged to Trump Jr.

• 1:08:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's current, right?

• 1:08:30Speaker 00

  No, no, they've split up. I think he's married now to somebody else, but.

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  Got it, okay.

• 1:08:35Speaker 00

  And they were together, I'm pretty sure for years. So

• 1:08:40Speaker 00

  she's like an op on both sides, man. It's wild. I'm, I'm pre-ordering her book today. Write something down. So yeah, this is wild. She is, uh, dude, the, this, the text messages that are coming out between her, and I forget the guy's name, if you can look this up, but um, so she was caught up in a very recent scandal, uh, that I think is a big part of why she ended up getting fired. But she was like telling this guy, there was a guy who was trying to get the administration's attention. And she was like, I can deliver that for you. And he kept texting her and she was like, for the love of God, stop writing this stuff down. Call me on Signal. Uh, and she would say things like, send me instructions in a way that can't be uh, like traced or something.

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  I mean, it's just like really, really a bad look. Uh, what a nightmare. You'll literally cost me my ambassadorship. Stop writing. So yeah, so who is this guy? Does it say his name?

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  Just.

• 1:09:39Speaker 00

  All right. So the guy wrote, it is known. We just need to look this up, Ryan. Maybe you can find this. But uh, you could just send it in here. It won't show up anywhere. If you wire money to American Express, that's all that will show. And then she responded, what a nightmare. You'll literally cost me my ambassadorship. Stop writing. And guess what happened? He literally cost her her ambassadorship. Guess what? Stop doing shit that you're worried about having written down, man. So yeah. Oh, God.

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  There was another thing about she was trying to get her G-Wagon paid off by another person. Uh, bro, I can't find this article, but yeah, as of right now, Trump asked her to step down from her ambassadorship in Greece. Uh, some people say she's still there holed up, so we shall figure it out.

• 1:10:23Speaker 00

  No, no, no. She did. She's out. Toast, right? Confirmed, but I'm 99.9999% sure.

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  She's still physically there. That's the part. Yeah, she hasn't like left yet.

• 1:10:34Speaker 00

  But yeah, so this one, this one is I think going to get worse. So here's what everybody can expect. Um, given the things that have already come out, I know Trump is trying to distance himself from this. The reality, in fact, if you can find the clip of when Trump was asked like, hey, she used to be engaged to your son. And he was like, all but, you know, don't know much about her. It's like, hold on a second. They were together for a long time. I imagine that you know exactly, is this it? Oh, please play this.

• 1:11:02Speaker 05

  No, she wasn't a member of my family. She, uh, I guess dated my son a long time ago, but she wasn't. No, she, uh, she went to Greece. She was doing a good job, but we didn't like what we were reading, so.

• 1:11:17Speaker 00

  So we, we should confirm, Ryan. Can you check how long was she engaged to Trump Jr.? Because I think it was measured in years. Now, I mean, look, Trump didn't go to his own son's wedding, so it certainly is possible that he didn't know her well. But damn, uh, to say that she wasn't part of the family.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Four years.

• 1:11:37Speaker 00

  Okay, okay, bro, come on. He's, she is engaged to your son for four years and you're like, sorry, what's her name again?

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  Major holidays.

• 1:11:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, that's a little wild. So uh, I get why he doesn't like what he was reading. But this is one of those things where the Democrat Party is going to make an absolute feast out of this. So given the proximity to power, given the things that we are seeing her uh, come out in her leaked text messages, um, there's gonna be a lot of investigations here. Everybody's gonna get subpoenaed. They're gonna get drug in. So this will not go quietly into that good night, man. No matter how much he tries to distance himself. So buckle up for this one. This is gonna be a wild ride for sure.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  Cool. And then now we have to jump through, jump to Z-Way's interview with Hassan that's been going viral across platforms.

• 1:12:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, you gotta let this play. This is wild.

• 1:12:28Speaker 06

  You kind of look like a communist.

• 1:12:30Speaker 07

  Thank you. I got this in China.

• 1:12:33Speaker 06

  Really?

• 1:12:34Speaker 07

  The only tailored suit I own.

• 1:12:35Speaker 06

  Would you like to stand up and show us the fit?

• 1:12:37Speaker 00

  So uh, this is the sort of Mao-esque outfit that he is so proud of. Dude, I need people to imagine that he is in full Nazi regalia right now. Except worse, because Mao killed a lot more people than Hitler. So uh, it is crazy to me that this guy is cosplaying. And I don't know how much he's doing it tongue in cheek or just to troll people. But this is, for people that know history, this is like seeing a guy show up in an SS uniform.

• 1:13:11Speaker 06

  All right, just look at that camera. Just show us. Yes. Please, tip tip, maybe turn around. You great and you want to show muscles?

• 1:13:21Speaker 08

  I mean, I can't really.

• 1:13:22Speaker 06

  Squat a little.

• 1:13:24Speaker 00

  This is why I love that he did all this. This is hysterical. She's like, how far can I? Wait, wait, no, you have to, you have to play that back, play that back. Cause I talked over that. That's the important part here. But I can't believe that she actually got him to do it.

• 1:13:35Speaker 08

  Let myself out a little bit.

• 1:13:36Speaker 06

  Slut yourself out.

• 1:13:37Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 1:13:41Speaker 06

  What does that mean?

• 1:13:43Speaker 08

  Just, you know, be a little slutty.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  He thought he killed that. He thought she was just gonna laugh. He's like, wait.

• 1:13:54Speaker 08

  Sorry, I apologize.

• 1:13:56Speaker 00

  So I'd never seen this woman before and now I've got to like sub like this is wild. So, uh, now it's important. Drew pointed out, you knew who she was.

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Speaker 00

  And so she's in character, like this is her thing.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  I kind of compare it to between two friends when Zach Galifianakis did his podcast a couple of years ago where she has this deadpan, dry comedy delivery. She pushes people in certain directions that you won't see in typical interviews. So she leans into the awkwardness, kind of like the Nathan field, like her brand is awkward comedy. So she's looking for these moments to try to catch her guest.

• 1:14:27Speaker 00

  Got it. So I thought this was like, he thought this, oh, this is like a friendly. And then he happened to misstep.

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  Celebrity, it's hugely very highbrow, like, you know, chill stuff. It's not really deep political commentary.

• 1:14:40Speaker 00

  But she is trying to put people in an awkward situation. Now from a just being brilliant at what you do, I was very impressed when she let that shit sit there. She was like, I'm gonna make this guy comment on that thing. Now this obviously for me is schadenfreude. It's playful. It ultimately in the grand scheme is nothing, but it is a fascinating, uh, moment where he's says a thing that I think is legitimately funny because it's such a cliche of men asking women to do that. Like do a twirl because they want to see your ass in the outfit. Uh, and then she got him to, you know, flex muscles, do squats. It is hilarious to me that he actually did all that stuff.

• 1:15:23Speaker 00

  Uh, and then it will be interesting to see if his community ends up just going, look, he was just joking. Or if they really jump on the, uh, you know, the whole slut thing. So I'll be interested to see, do we, Ryan, has there been any reaction from his, uh, side of the aisle here on this? Do they all just take it as a joke or are there people that are actually?

• 1:15:45Speaker 09

  I mean, it's just a zong shen suit. It's not really anything that deep. I don't think, I mean, it's a comedy.

• 1:15:51Speaker 00

  Suit is, that's where I'll take, uh, exception to that, but setting that aside. So nobody on the left is like, I've got beef with the slut comment.

• 1:15:59Speaker 09

  Because this is a, this is a nothing burger of it's a, it's a, it's a different, I know what you're trying to lead into. Cause you're leading into the, the comedy guy who made a slut comment.

• 1:16:08Speaker 00

  That for sure, but that's not actually what I mean. I am legitimately just asking from, if there was a reaction, you would have seen it, I presume, because this is more.

• 1:16:17Speaker 09

  Z way is a comedy podcast and I don't think anyone takes that joke badly now.

• 1:16:23Speaker 00

  Him making that joke, no beef.

• 1:16:25Speaker 09

  Because it's not really a bad joke. I mean.

• 1:16:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, word. I think it's funny. I don't think there's any problem, but I think that we would be, and now I'll transition into the next piece, which this actually wasn't originally the setup for this, but, um, the whole Shane Gillis thing, which is, I would say equally throwaway, funny, but I did not expect it to buy, to divide the internet.

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  Let's play, let's play it first. Cause I heard the reaction before the joke and I had like bloated expectations. So let's like, let you guys hear from the horse's mouth and then you could decide for yourself.

• 1:16:59Speaker 08

  I tried to go to a public gym. Going to the public gym is a fat guy, especially in New York. It's a nightmare, dude. Everyone's just, just the hottest gay guys you've ever seen. They're jacked and they look at me like, yeah, right. I know, dude. Also, I haven't been to the gym in so long. I didn't know women just dress like whores now.

• 1:17:18Speaker 08

  Look, I'm sorry. There's no other way to describe. I say, have you seen it? I've seen it. The shorts? Have you seen the shorts? Those neon, they're like the only, they're like artificial bait colored.

• 1:17:30Speaker 08

  The wrinkles, the wrinkles go like around the cheeks and all combine at the butthole.

• 1:17:39Speaker 08

  And don't look, you're not allowed to look. For real, don't look, because they are filming. I'm, I'm in the background of like 10 TikToks right now.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's it. That's a joke.

• 1:17:51Speaker 00

  But dude, it has generated so many headlines. It is absolutely wild. And then I think it was made, uh, a much bigger story because of the reaction of, um, is it Sean Levy? What's the actor's first name?

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  Uh, um, from Schitt's Creek.

• 1:18:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  Let me pull it up. I'm blanking on his name.

• 1:18:08Speaker 00

  First name, but anyway, he did a whole thing about, um, Shane Gillis being misogynistic and this like perpetuates. You say assault culture. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but certainly, um, making this a very big deal. And so, um, to me, that's where I thought, cause I saw them in the reverse order. I saw this first and then I saw the Z way thing. And I was like, wait, hold on a second. Are people reacting to this? Um, and it.

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  Here's Levy's response. Women wearing short shorts at the gym does not make them whores. It makes them, it makes the men calling them whores misogynists. There's a difference there. By the way, I've seen more men's nipple at the gym than I've ever seen women showing their bodies off. But, um, speechless, something like that can exist on live national television. And to be perfectly honest, more men need to be standing up in opposition to it because it's complacency. That's created the environment in which women are sexually assaulted and it's a conversation as opposed to a crime.

• 1:19:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. I don't know how we went from a comedian's joke about women dressing like whores to, uh, this is how you perpetuate sexual assault, but here we are.

• 1:19:13Speaker 00

  This is where, when I think about comedy and what comedy is meant to do, it's meant to poke fun at things that, uh, we all recognize, but haven't said, or haven't like put the thought together in our own head. Um, and that is precisely what he did. Had I not known that this ended up blowing up into something, because like you, I saw the headlines before I heard the joke. I was like, wait, that joke? I went back and watched the entire thing. So I thought maybe he was doing other things that like set this up to, um, feel like a bigger deal. No, like the set is funny. It's amusing, but it's not like his most outrageous. He's got way more outrageous jokes than this.

• 1:19:54Speaker 00

  Uh, so I was very surprised. This definitely made me feel like the whole idea of woke one still being alive and well is unfortunately still true. And this all gets caught up in the inability of our culture right now to parse our women, do they have agency? Are men just blanket predators? Um, when women dress provocatively, what is the expectation? Are they actually doing it for themselves? Or are they doing it for sexual attention? Uh, and when they get the sexual attention, is it just, I don't like that I got the sexual attention of the wrong person? And so all of this stuff gets caught up and then looming in the background, big as day is the, um, uh, the seven, what university is it?

• 1:20:40Speaker 09

  Uh, Cornell.

• 1:20:40Speaker 00

  Cornell seven. Thank you. Uh, that's looming in the background.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  I think that has more to do with this than the actual joke. I think this is, if that wasn't so fresh in our minds and then the joke comes, I think we separate this. But there's a lot of speculation about what happened, who's at fault for what happened in the Cornell seven? Is consent revocable? Is because I drank, I'm now allowed to be used in that way? Like there's a bunch of different lines and people are coming all across from it. And then he makes this joke and I think that it's just a timing versus a delivery or content thing, in my opinion.

• 1:21:15Speaker 09

  Yeah. I will also, oh, go ahead.

• 1:21:16Speaker 00

  No, please.

• 1:21:17Speaker 09

  I will also say, and this is coming from, I have female friends who are comedians is there is something to, and I'll even just compare Hassan and, um, this guy's joke is, what was Hassan's thing? Slut it out versus women dress like sluts, right? Like there's a big difference in those words. And when you're, when the punchline of your joke is women are whores, it can come off misogynistic, right? Like even if you don't have ill intent.

• 1:21:39Speaker 00

  He didn't say women are whores. He said they dress like whores.

• 1:21:41Speaker 09

  Well, what does that imply? If women dress like whores, what does he imply?

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  Dave Chappelle has a great joke about that.

• 1:21:47Speaker 09

  I would have to hear it. I like, I like, uh.

• 1:21:50Speaker 10

  He's kicking with your boys and, and a girl walks by and, and man, she looks good. She looks good. Not good in that classical way. I mean, you know, I'm talking good. Like she got half her ass hanging out her skirt.

• 1:22:03Speaker 10

  Her titties are all mashed together, popping out the top of her turtleneck and shit.

• 1:22:10Speaker 10

  You with your buddies, you got a couple of drinks in you and you see a girl, you might try to talk to her, this might not come out right. I don't know what you say. Damn, look at them titties.

• 1:22:19Speaker 10

  The girl gets mad and she, oh, uh, uh, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute.

• 1:22:24Speaker 10

  Just because I'm dressed this way does not.

• 1:22:31Speaker 10

  Make me a whore. Gentlemen, that is true. Just because they dress a certain way doesn't mean they are a certain way. Don't ever forget it. But ladies, you must understand that that is fucking confusing.

• 1:22:44Speaker 10

  Now, that would be like me, Dave Chappelle, the comedian, walking around the streets in a cop uniform. Somebody might run up on me. Ah, thank God. Officer, help us. Come on, they're over here. Help us. I'm like, oh.

• 1:23:00Speaker 10

  Just because I'm dressed this way

• 1:23:03Speaker 10

  does not make me a police officer.

• 1:23:07Speaker 02

  Dave Chappelle's the goat.

• 1:23:08Speaker 00

  He is the goat, dude. All capital letters. That guy is absolutely insane.

• 1:23:13Speaker 02

  I did step on your point, though, right?

• 1:23:14Speaker 00

  Oh, no, you're good.

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  I did make the joke.

• 1:23:15Speaker 09

  No, no, I mean, I think also that's a good example of how to tell that joke well, right? I mean, there's a difference between planning a whole setup, dragging it all out, and then him just going, "And women dress like whores, am I right, gentlemen?" You know? And, um, like, the big thing for me is-

• 1:23:30Speaker 00

  I love the Trump topspin on that. That was-

• 1:23:33Speaker 09

  I didn't even mean to, but, um, like, I have female friends who are comedians, and they are going on tours, and they're doing things, and now at interviews, the first question they get is, "So what'd you think about the joke that he made on SNL?" And it's like, the problem is, i- it's comedians being lazy. I mean, it's a lazy joke that he wrote on SNL. Is it like, oh, the worst thing ever? No. And I think some people sure are overreacting, but there is an inherent misogyny to a lot of comedy. Like, women are always put down. Women are always put second class in, in comedy, for the most part.

• 1:24:02Speaker 00

  That's interesting. I don't have that read on it. So, uh, do you feel in the Dave Chappelle take that he was being misogynistic?

• 1:24:11Speaker 09

  Uh, I think the joke has some slight misogyny, but that's the thing of, he pushed the envelope to a point where it doesn't go too far, right? Like, he's telling a similar joke to the other guy, but again, it goes back to the setup, right? The punchline, everything like that. Now, it's not my flavor of humor. I wouldn't really laugh at that, because it's just like, I don't, I go, cool, you know? Women dress scantily clad, who cares?

• 1:24:32Speaker 00

  The way that I read comedy is, so a lot of female comics, um, make anti-men jokes or jokes at the expense of men. That's a better way to say it. And I have never been like, "These bitches are misandrous." That's the part where I'm like, "Listen, if, if that's their brand of comedy, and that's what they want to poke fun at, and especially if they can nail something that's actually real, it's like, okay, it's funny. You're making an observation about men that actually exists, and the fact that it's coming from a woman doesn't make it misandrous. It's just, it's a joke at men's expense."

• 1:25:07Speaker 09

  Well, but why is that joke funny, though? Let's analyze that. I mean, the reason a joke about men-

• 1:25:11Speaker 00

  A theoretical joke about men?

• 1:25:12Speaker 09

  A theoretical joke about men. The reason those are funny is they're subversive, right? Like, typically in society, we don't bash men for those types of things. We always bash women for how they dress, how they interact with people.

• 1:25:21Speaker 00

  Weird frame of reference, so-

• 1:25:22Speaker 09

  And it's, and it's almost like the man telling a misogynistic joke in the way the guy did on SNL is just straight up punching down on a group that is oppressed in comedy.

• 1:25:30Speaker 00

  Okay, so here's, here's where, um, I think the far more interesting debate happens. Are women oppressed, uh, in comedy or otherwise? And I would say that, that, that assertion is absurd on its face. I mean, there's almost no metric-

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  The assertion women that are oppressed in comedy.

• 1:25:47Speaker 00

  Yeah. Uh, women are oppressed in comedy, which is the claim you made. And then I will add another claim, that I think a lot of people think women are oppressed full stop. And I think that that is, uh, both claims are, uh, absurd. So there, when you think about what do people find funny, they're gonna find funny what they find funny. And so people either finding or not finding a woman funny has nothing to do with oppression. Um, so I don't see where-

• 1:26:14Speaker 09

  Well, I didn't say that either. You're twisting-

• 1:26:15Speaker 00

  You said, "Women are oppressed, oppressed in comedy."

• 1:26:18Speaker 09

  Women are oppressed in comedy, as in they're skipped over for, for showcases. They are made, I have a friend who, one of my friends who posts her clips on Instagram, uh, and her partner also does comedy. They both have the same follower count. She gets significantly more hate comments just because she's a woman than he does. When they make similar jokes, they don't talk politics, all of that. You can see women's oppression in comedy. Is it, is it something to where I'm like, "Oh, I'm so offended by this joke," or, duh, duh, duh? No, it's not. I'm just, it's, it's a fact of the matter that women are oppressed in comedy.

• 1:26:48Speaker 00

  Okay, so my read of that same set of facts has nothing to do with women being oppressed in comedy. Does it mean that men are more likely to be cruel online? Maybe. That's certainly possible. But in the day of the internet, if a woman is funny, she's going to be able to get her stuff seen, because all the algorithm cares about is whether people are engaging with your content, they're watching it. And then a promoter is gonna go, "Oh, this person has a massive following. Let's get them, uh, you know, gigs, because I can make money off of it." You could say possibly that, like, Netflix, um, they are so misogynistic that they will do something against their own best interests. But I see a ton of female-led, uh, specials on Netflix,

• 1:27:33Speaker 00

  and I certainly don't see anything in the behavior pattern of Netflix that would lead me to believe that they're misogynistic, so-

• 1:27:39Speaker 09

  But you're just picking, I'm talking, comedy's more than just Netflix.

• 1:27:42Speaker 00

  Sure, but like, what are you anchoring on?

• 1:27:44Speaker 09

  I just told you, people I know in comedy-

• 1:27:46Speaker 00

  You gave me an anecdote of one person who gets hate comments.

• 1:27:49Speaker 09

  And then I told you my friends who are comedians, who are women, have the same thing. My friend from the interview. My, I mean, like-

• 1:27:54Speaker 00

  Right, but so this is where we go, these are unnamed anecdotes.

• 1:27:58Speaker 09

  Well, I'm not gonna name people on there.

• 1:27:59Speaker 00

  Fair, and I get that, and I think that that's very wise. But, but bear with me, don't expect that to be a compelling argument. So I'm not saying that you don't have a compelling argument that you could make that would be persuasive. I'm just saying you're not yet making that compelling argument.

• 1:28:12Speaker 02

  There's that TikTok lady who does, um, call-in shows, and she always says, like, "Facts. We talk about facts. We talk about science. We don't talk about feelings, opinions, or anecdotes." So I think in your, uh, to back what Tom is saying right now, when you have, just because you can point to one person and say, "It happened to that one person," that makes them the exception. That doesn't make them the real necessarily. So I think from a rural perspective, I don't know if there's a mass institutional push against women into comedy. Now, we can pick very specific examples, because you could say your friend. I could think about Monique, um, from the black community. I could think about, like, we can all kind of pull one or two people that we can say, "This person should be bigger," or "Has had to do misogynistic things

• 1:28:55Speaker 02

  that her male counterparts did not have to go through." Um, but I just don't know if it's that banner, like-

• 1:29:00Speaker 00

  That, that's a great point, but let's take Monique. So Monique came up before the internet was like, "The way." And so she still had to impress an establishment that could all too easily actually gatekeep, be misogynistic, et cetera. I don't know enough about it to know if that's actually what happened. But like, when you have institutional gatekeepers, I get how that happens. When you have the internet and you have the ability to put up on TikTok your jokes, and then the world is going to respond, unless you think the algorithm itself is misogynistic, it just becomes a question of, is that person funny to a large enough audience that they will become undeniable? And my thing is, in the day and age of the internet,

• 1:29:42Speaker 00

  you do not have to go on and get the blessing of, say, um, Joe Rogan if you want to show that you're funny. You have a way to build your own audience. And so that's where I'm like, "Hold on. At, at this stage, nobody gets to make the claim that somebody else is holding me back, unless you can point to the algorithm doing something to, like, I'm in a, it's censoring me for some reason. I've been shadow banned or whatever." I imagine that is still very real. Uh, I imagine different algorithms shadow ban different people. But I cannot think of any credible claim that's been made against any algorithm that says that it's opposed to women. And so, okay, that's your claim. Now, the claim that I'm-

• 1:30:22Speaker 09

  Well, my claim wasn't algorithms.

• 1:30:24Speaker 00

  No, no, no, your claim was that women are oppressed in comedy.

• 1:30:26Speaker 09

  Right. That's a lot of different facets. You're picking different individual sectors in the same capacity that I'm picking the anecdotes from my life and going, "I haven't heard of, of an algorithm that does this. I haven't heard of Netflix doing this." You're not, you're not, I mean, there are six different people in chat already who have just blankly said, uh, "Women aren't funny" in chat. I feel like that should show evidence further to my case, right? I mean-

• 1:30:47Speaker 00

  Well, so hold on, because now you're talking about, let's say, it is possible that they have not seen women that they find funny. That they just don't speak to the type of humor that they have. That is certainly a very real thing. I imagine there are women who don't find men funny. I imagine there are men who don't find women funny. That's whatever.

• 1:31:05Speaker 09

  Right, but I would never sit here and go, "Men aren't funny. Women aren't funny." I have comedians I like, I have comedians I dislike, and the fact that they're man, woman, non-binary, whoever the fuck, doesn't make a difference to me.

• 1:31:15Speaker 00

  That's great. I think that's a far better way to go through life.

• 1:31:18Speaker 09

  Like, you're, I mean, it's-

• 1:31:19Speaker 00

  Well, so let's, let's make sure that we tease out the separate argument. So now, you're making a, uh, blanket statement that, that women are oppressed in comedy. And as to show evidence of that, we see that there are people in this chat alone who are saying, "Women just aren't funny." So men not finding, like, even if that were a real factoid, which I am not putting forward that it is, but let's say that that were a real factoid. If we were to put that forward, that is not a sign of oppression in comedy. That is a sign of, there is a 50% of the marketplace that does not, they're not able to speak to. Okay, well, that is what it is. So now, you could do scientific studies, whatever, to figure out if there really is something about the way that females interpret the world

• 1:32:04Speaker 00

  that makes it harder for them to, uh, you know, appeal to men in terms of comedy. I am not aware of any such study, and I've found plenty of women absolutely fucking hysterical, so that comment doesn't land for me. What I'm trying to get at is, in a world of algorithms, "Only the algorithm can oppress you," quote unquote. Whether men go in the comments and say mean things does not stop something from being funny. At, the whole reason that I thought during Woke One, it was absolutely absurd that people were trying to, uh, crush down comedy, is people are gonna find funny what they find funny. And that is like a deep limbic system thing. When you're really laughing, you're laughing from your belly. There's the whole rise, people have written articles about this. I don't have one quickly at my fingertips.

• 1:32:49Speaker 00

  But there's the whole rise of, uh, what do they call it? Claptor. So where, instead of people actually laughing at your joke, they're clapping at your point. And so that, to me, is very different than comedy. That's political commentary with a clap track. So it's like, that's like a very different thing, um, which, hey, but if somebody likes that kind of, uh, funny, then I'm all for it. They want you to make a political statement that they find amusing, and they're gonna clap for it instead of laughing from their belly. If that's how people want their entertainment, I don't have a problem with that. But that, to me, is not somebody being oppressed or unduly celebrated. That's just, that's a different thing. Um, so-

• 1:33:33Speaker 00

  Trying to have this conversation at the level of like cultural sobriety and how do we make sense as a culture is people trying to police what other people find funny, I think is a, an unwise way to try and parse the world and, which is not your claim, I'm just saying, new point. I think that is an unwise way for people to try to parse the world. If you find that people are laughing at a joke that you find deeply unsettling, I think it is far wiser to figure out why is that funny? Not to go try to berate or browbeat people and say you shouldn't find that thing funny. It's to figure out, okay, what's going on in culture that makes that joke funny? Is it touching on something that people haven't been able to talk about?

• 1:34:14Speaker 00

  So while I didn't think the women dress like whores in the gym is the funniest joke I've ever heard in my life, I, the reason I found it funny is I find it absolutely hysterical, theater of the absurd, a just, it's full retard for women to dress provocatively and expect men not to look at them. Male pornography is about close-ups of genitalia. And until women grow to understand that men parse sexuality so differently than they do, they are going to be perpetually confused. Now, Heather Heine talked about this. She's an evolutionary biologist, married to Brett Weinstein. She talked about this and I thought the way she talked about

• 1:34:59Speaker 00

  it was absolutely fascinating. This is not a woman who tries to dress provocatively at all. And she said, nonetheless, when I was about 15, I discovered the power of my sexuality and that I could control the male gaze. And I thought, oh, that's an interesting realization that I think women go through where they realize, whoa, pre puberty, I did not have this power. Now all of a sudden I have the ability to garner attention and get somebody to do something based on my physicality. And women don't react the same way to men like that. So for them, it is a sense of discovery of realizing, whoa, my body has power. I do not think that women who dress the way that they dress in the gym are confused about that.

• 1:35:40Speaker 00

  I think that they have experienced it very profoundly in their life. They may like some of it and absolutely despise others and be deeply uncomfortable about other things. And this is again, where there's a go to joke from, we just literally saw Dave Chappelle, thank you, Jesus Christ, where he talks about, it's so crass, I like hesitate to say it. If you've got kids, now would be the time to get them to leave. But he was talking about, man, I want you to imagine if you've ever withdrawn a lot of money from an ATM and then you have to walk back to your place with it and you just feel like, fuck, I'm gonna get attacked because I've got, you know, $10,000 on me or whatever. And he said, now imagine

• 1:36:22Speaker 00

  you walk around all day with a vagina. He didn't say vagina, but you get the idea. And I was like, fuck, that is one of those real things where you're like, Jesus, I never thought about it. That you know, there is some thankfully, small percentage of men, but they will be violent towards you if they get the opportunity because you have attached to your body as a part of your body. You have a thing they want so badly that they will essentially ruin the rest of your life to get access to it. That is insane. And I had never thought about it. And so it was a joke that cut to the heart of a true thing that I'd never thought about. In the same way, to a much lesser extent, that he was making a joke about something that we

• 1:37:04Speaker 00

  haven't been allowed to talk about, which is women dress in this insanely provocative way that has a massive impact on the neurochemistry of even the most like, I know to be protective of women, to avert my gaze, to be respectful, to give them space, to make sure that they never feel endangered. All of that, love it. There's going to be a huge number of men that respond in that situation in that way. But nonetheless, when presented with that imagery, there is a very deep part of their biological composition that is gonna like have a reaction.

• 1:37:44Speaker 00

  And women pretending that that isn't happening is insane. And that's where the comedy lies in that when you show your body off like that, you, you have experienced so many times, you're gonna get a reaction and they dress like that nonetheless. And then there were people posting TikToks and it's like, I have a condition and I have to dress like this and I don't want to. And meaning like I overheat or whatever. And it's like, come on, man. There's a way to wear shorts and a shirt that is not your ass cheeks hanging out. And by the way, if you wanna dress in a way that has your ass cheeks hanging out, do you. Like, I don't have any beef with that whatsoever. But don't pretend that there isn't a biological reaction that's coming your way. And so that's why I found the joke funny.

• 1:38:28Speaker 02

  I got two things for that. First thing, I put a poll in the chat. Have workout clothing etiquette gone too far? 67% of the chat said yes, 32, 33 said no. But going back to your last point about women dressing a certain way and expecting a reaction, I think it's unfair that we put that responsibility on women. I'm gonna use a very, I'm gonna use a very specific example. Lynn got dress coded in seventh grade because she wore short shorts in the hallway on her way to like cheerleading practice or whatever like that. The teacher was like, well, you could have changed, you know, in the gym and then went straight to cheer. You didn't have to change the period before and walk around with your shorts. And then she was just like, but why? I don't understand why I can't wear shorts. And then it was the typical excuses. Well, boys get distracted and things like this. She was like,

• 1:39:13Speaker 02

  well, why am I, why is, why am I responsible for how boys think like they need to be more disciplined and not stare at me? And it was one of those things that from like a parent's standpoint, I was on the teacher's side until she said that last statement. I'm like, yeah, that is interesting. If you are raising a horny little boy and he thinks anything with legs, he's allowed to stare at, hump at, lick at, whatever. It's not my daughter's fault that he doesn't have any self-control. She's had self-control. She's not sitting on his lap. She's not twerking in on the desk. She's not doing any of those things. So you should be able to have the self-respect to control your impulses. And I think that's the first time I realized like where the burden of proof of the conversation lies. It's one thing about dressing. It's one thing about rape. Like, we could take all those things off the table,

• 1:39:54Speaker 02

  but just a woman provocatively dressed, we're automatically gonna say, why is she dressed like that versus why am I fighting with these uncomfortable thoughts?

• 1:40:02Speaker 00

  I think there's two things going on there. So one, do you think that schools should have a dress code? Or should kids be able to roll up in a thong if they want?

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  Rolling up in a thong is a bit unnecessary.

• 1:40:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So for you, there is a line. You just don't draw it in the same place. So I'm just saying, if we wanna argue about where that line is, fair enough. But that there should be a line, I think we all agree. Even though that line is still based on the very same thing, which is that people are gonna have a biological response to this. Now, I'm not giving guys a pass. If you've got a kid that's acting a fool, you should be on his ass as well and saying, listen, you cannot act like a fucking creep. You can't stare at women. I don't care if, if, okay, so I'll give an example. This is still horrifying and I mourn for this girl to this day. But there was a girl in my school in middle school that got pantsed, if you guys know what that is. But unfortunately, whether intended or

• 1:41:00Speaker 00

  not, both her sweatpants and her underwear came down. Now, if guys then swarm and are staring and pointing and laughing, you're an asshole. If you're like, fuck, and you avert your eyes to give her some dignity, yeah, 100%. And so I would for sure, I don't remember what happened to the kid. He should have been suspended, whatever. And then a thousand percent, anybody that was ogling, pointing and laughing, they're a fucking asshole. You gotta notify the parents. Like, that's some sinister shit. Parents, you gotta get control of your kids. Now, at the same time, that parents should be just teaching their boys to be gentlemen, to protect women, which I think that'll be a controversial statement,

• 1:41:43Speaker 00

  but nonetheless, I believe that. And so I believe parents should be teaching their kids that. The very reason they should be teaching their kids that is nature has a different agenda. Nature's like, if you see exposed genitals, all eyes on that shit, pay attention. You're gonna get a massive response, especially as they go through puberty. Also, the brain is not fully developed yet. That doesn't mean that you don't teach boys relentlessly and consistently to be a gentleman, to be protective, to avert your gaze, all of that stuff. You should a thousand percent be drumming that into boys. But I also understand it's gonna be hard, especially when they're young, that they have such a lack of control over their impulses because they literally don't have a prefrontal cortex that's fully developed.

• 1:42:28Speaker 00

  But anyway, so those to me are separate. You should be telling girls, listen, there's a reality to be faced. As you get older, you're gonna discover something called the male gaze. Need to be very thoughtful about that. And

• 1:42:41Speaker 00

  Don't ever find yourself, and by the way, I'm not surprised by her confusion at all, because presumably at that time she was prepubescent. And so it's like she hasn't discovered that people start looking at her in a different way yet. Now, as she matures and she's cheerleading now, like all of those things, she's gonna find out. And so now, at that point, I would expect her to be, and you know, as a father, you decide whether this would be an appropriate way to speak to her, to, as she gets older, to be far more strategic with the use of her attractiveness. I don't think it's something that women need to hide in any way, shape, or form. I think they should be wise to understand, listen, you can get attention on yourself in

• 1:43:21Speaker 00

  productive ways by knowing how to flatter yourself, be appropriate to the scenario, but like, understand how you can get all eyes on you, like you briefly showed a shot of the new press secretary for Trump. It is not an accident that she's another attractive blonde woman, right? It, it, people are going to pay attention to that. And she dresses in a way that's very professional, but also very flattering. And so for a woman to understand that there is a way to do that, where you're going to get a response both from women and men, and you need to understand what that is and how to be in control of that situation, I think that's very wise. And so somehow, we've allowed culture to derange itself to

• 1:44:03Speaker 00

  the point where we act like these aren't knowable things, that these aren't powerful things. One of the truest things I ever heard Sam Harris say was, when there was like, Me Too was just going crazy. Sam Harris was like, everybody needs to pump the brakes, because we are acting like women are powerless. And he said, I have never seen a successful, wealthy person throw their life away faster than over an attractive young woman. And I was like, fucking facts. Guys, Jeff Bezos, one of the most successful entrepreneurs the world has ever given us, one of the wealthiest people the world has ever given us, still sent his girlfriend dick pics. It is just a fucking truth of the human experience. And

• 1:44:45Speaker 00

  so, us all pretending like that isn't a thing, or that men are somehow these evil creatures because they find women attractive and are going to look and feel some type of way, is crazy. And to pretend like women dress like that for themselves is absurd in the extreme. If they, if they were really doing it for themselves, they would dress like that at home, which of course they do not. They put on the loungiest, frumpiest shit. I've been in enough relationships to know, that is like 100% guaranteed. And so, yeah, this is just theater of the absurd. And so, the, like, higher morality than now, you're a misogynist for saying something like that is just silly. He's trying to say it in a

• 1:45:27Speaker 00

  provocative way, because it is a true thing, that somehow we have gotten to the point where we're not allowed to talk about. It's crazy.

• 1:45:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, the chat's not helping your point.

• 1:45:39Speaker 00

  Because they're saying what?

• 1:45:40Speaker 02

  I've had to go right side. I'm seeing some crazy comments right now. Even to my kid, even to like my daughter's conversation that I gave them the setup and everything. And it's just like, well, she should, she should be dressed like a hoochie. Like, okay, you didn't hear anything I said. Okay.

• 1:45:52Speaker 00

  Exactly. But, okay, so now-

• 1:45:55Speaker 02

  We're doing on the other side of specific anecdotes going crazy.

• 1:46:00Speaker 00

  Well, not only that, because let's say, let's say that that behavior is universal.

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:05Speaker 00

  Now, I want, so that I can also feel seen in all of this, I just walk through how both women and men should be looking at this. So clearly, I'm not like, these guys should be popping off and saying, you just don't dress like a hoochie. But at the same time, they're getting to a real point, which is, there is going to be that reaction. You may not want there to be that reaction, but just like I would tell my daughter, no one should ever rape you. That shit is fucking insane. But still, you need to be careful about where you are at night. You need to be thoughtful about how much light there is, how many other people are around, how safe you are.

• 1:46:41Speaker 02

  Because of any of your surroundings.

• 1:46:42Speaker 00

  Yes, because it is a reality that you are far more likely to be attacked by a man than a woman. That's just fucking true. And so, it's not misandrist to say that men are far more likely to be the perpetrator of sexual violence. And it's not misogynistic to point out that when you dress in a provocative way, you bring attention upon yourself that you better understand, because if you don't understand it, you may do it at an inappropriate time or inappropriate place. And there is a right time and a right place to dress provocatively, such as on your wedding night, might I suggest. But I'm not like, wait for your wedding night kind of guy at all. So it's like, hey, there are plenty of times, you're at a pool party, you're around a lot of other people. And if you want to really walk that line and get

• 1:47:23Speaker 00

  a lot of attention, but just know, some people are gonna be inappropriate, they shouldn't be, but likely you up the risk of that dramatically. So it's like, regardless of whether these guys are demonstrating the behavior that we don't want to see, my point is, that behavior is there and exists. And so now that we know that that behavior exists, do we just go, men bad, or those guys trash, or whatever? Or do we say, women be very thoughtful about when you dress like that, because it has a certain response? And then, men, this is how you should behave in that situation. Okay. Tailor Brands. So, Tailor Brands is one of the most incredible partnerships we've ever had. You guys know how much I care

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