3 Million Epstein Files Drop: What The Elite Don’t Want You to Know | The Tom Bilyeu Show

Welcome to another powerful episode of Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu. Today, Tom Bilyeu, alongside co-host Drew and DJ Mason, tackles one of the most explosive stories of our time: the release of the Epstein files. With over 3 million documents, 2,000 videos, and a staggering 180,000 images made public, the show dives deep into what these revelations mean—not just for those implicated, but for society as a whole. This conversation doesn't just scratch the surface of shocking headlines or wild speculation. Instead, Tom Bilyeu, Drew, and Mason pull back the curtain on the underlying insights: the interconnectedness of elites, the dangers of blackmail, the architecture of human psychology, and the public's desperate need for truth and accountability. They grapple with the question of how to move forward when the very structures of influence and justice seem compromised, and what it might take to restore trust through transparency and genuine leadership. Brace yourself for a candid, thought-provoking exploration that goes far beyond the headlines. Whether you're here for the jaw-dropping details, or to reflect on the deeper implications for politics, society, and the human condition, you won't want to miss this episode. Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impactKetone IQ: Visit https://ketone.com/IMPACT for 30% OFF your subscription orderHuel: High-Protein Starter Kit 20% off for new customers at https://huel.com/impact code impactCape: 33% off your first 6 months with code IMPACT at https://cape.co/impactPique: 20% off at https://piquelife.com/impactPlaud: Get 10% off with code TOM10 at https://plaud.ai/tomQuince: Free shipping and 365-day returns at https://quince.com/impactpod What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show: https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:see if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call: https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/: https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:08Speaker 01

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• 1:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Good morning, everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Tom Billings Show Live. Today is gonna be a crazy one. So if you've got somebody that you know is interested in the news, what's going on, how all this ties together, now would be the time to let them know. So The Epstein Files, Volume One, dropped, and they are far more horrifying than I would have imagined. I'm not kidding. Very appropriate. Thank you for that. We're going to be going into that, not so much from the speculation standpoint, though I'm sure there'll be plenty of that in the comments, but more just what does this mean? What's the deeper insight to take away from all this? Xi Jinping is ready to do battle with whoever the Fed chair ends up being as he made a very public and direct appeal this weekend for the Chinese yuan to become the world's

• 2:22Tom Bilyeu?

  reserve currency. But he's got a huge hurdle before him that we're going to discuss today. Listen, it's surely not all true, but 3 million documents, some of the most horrifying things you can imagine, coupled at the same time, it's just wild. So yeah, if they announce that, because they're, they're like poking and prodding people. They are terraforming, they are planting the seeds or what, there's a phrase for it, but they're doing all of that, or astroturfing, they're astroturfing to get us ready for this announcement about alien life. Oh, the timing, the timing, Drew. It's grotesque.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  I have to eat crow. I was talking junk, like we're never getting files. Those files are never dropping. And they dropped and I wish I was right. This is terrible. Like it's, it was worse than I imagined. And I was like, it's gonna be crazy. I watched House of Cards. It's gonna be like that. It's worse than I imagined.

• 3:20Tom Bilyeu?

  It's, so listen, okay, first of all, let us be very clear that all of this is alleged. It is alleged. These are documents of people. Oftentimes, it's just an email or it is a witness who has come forward that has not gone through the court of law. And so many of the things that are inevitably going to be in the documents simply are not true. So everything that we say here should be taking with, taken with a gigantic grain of salt. We certainly do not have any special insider information, so we are merely reporting on the things that people have been saying. I will certainly speculate in terms of things that I think might be going on,

• 4:03Tom Bilyeu?

  but this is my opinion and should not be taken as me representing facts. All right. Having said all of that, the latest major development on the Epstein files occurred on January 30th of 2026, when the US Department of Justice released over three million pages of documents, along with 2,000 videos, 180,000 images. And all of this is part of the compliance with the Epstein Files Transparency Act that we need, but may all regret as you start searching through the Epstein files themselves. You've got high-profile mentions, obviously people like Donald Trump are mentioned. He was mentioned, I think, thousands of times. Bill Clinton, Elon Musk, Bill Gates,

• 4:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Prince Andrew, who was mentioned hundreds of times, former White House advisors, people involved all the way up in finance and world leaders. Like you've got people stepping down in other countries because of their ties. It is pretty wild. There are emails, investigative records, general communications, and all of it is obviously tied back to the different ways that people are connected to Epstein.

• 5:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Much of it ties back to Epstein's post-2008 Florida conviction. But many are not necessarily new allegations. It's just that the detailed associations or the unverified tips that people have about things that Epstein was doing or people that he might be involved with. And I have a feeling that all of this is going to be one big rat's nest of

• 5:41Tom Bilyeu?

  information warfare. So just be very careful. Now, files suggest Epstein may have trafficked girls, obviously to other people. I can't believe even for a moment, people were just saying it was all the Epstein. Such an absurd claim. And that does not appear to be the fact, given all of the information in the files. And that starts raising questions about past official denials for evidence. And are like things trying to be covered up actively? Now, no new criminal charges have Stem from the release of the February 2nd documents, or since they all dropped. The files are publicly available on the DOJ's website. You guys can go see this stuff for yourself, which we have done here.

• 6:23Tom Bilyeu?

  It is not, I will say not, a pleasant experience. Several unconfirmed and speculative elements have surfaced from the files, or just raging across social media, and it can be very difficult to know what's true. There have been documents that people are just completely fabricating and posting, and because there's over 3 million documents, it's like, all just sort of gets mixed in. And as they say, lies will travel faster than the truth can get its pants on. So you have to be very careful when looking at this stuff, as people will present supposedly true redacted documents that are absolutely damning, and then they turn out to be completely false when you go to check them against the actual records. Now, there was a 2019 4chan post that's now in the declassified data set.

• 7:07Tom Bilyeu?

  So there were things that were posted, and then removed, and then a redacted version is posted. And supposedly, they come from a verified prison employee, who claims that Epstein, get ready tinfoil hat, tinfoil hat. This person claims that Epstein was removed from jail in an unmarked van by armed personnel before his reported death, fueling the theories that he might still be alive, or that he was just extracted covertly. Now, no evidence supports this beyond the post itself, so take that kind of thing with a grain of salt. The DOJ has emphasized, as I have here, that some tips are going to end up being proven untrue or purely sensationalist. So we have to be careful. But, boy, oh, boy.

• 7:50Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't plan to go through any of the specifics here, partly because they are stomach churning, and partly because we just don't know what's true yet. But, wow. As Drew said, they are worse than I expected. And maybe because I just never went in my mind to anything that was actually specific. But when you start hearing the specific claims, it is mortifying. Now, the thing that I find the most interesting about this isn't all the lurid, horrific accusations of sexual...

• 8:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Demonic actions. I mean, it's just really, really horrifying. Set that aside. What is most interesting to me is how there really is a tight knit group of people that are interconnected in ways that you would not expect. So, um, I've, I personally do not read into this one too deeply, other than to say, this is very interesting. When people talk about the uniparty and all that, you begin to understand why. But if you look at, so Mam Donnie's mom was in the files. Okay. I don't think people were expecting that one. It certainly was not a my bingo card. Uh, so when you look at Mam Donnie from the perspective of, oh my gosh, just grassroots kid comes up.

• 9:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, who would have thought that, you know, he's just the right person at the right moment, a Gen Z-er who um, is really showing people the angst that Gen Z is going through. And then you realize, well, maybe it's a little more complicated than that. Uh, in that his mom is obviously extremely well connected. Uh, I have no reason to believe that there's any um, impropriety, certainly on behalf of Mam Donnie. I don't think he was involved at all. Uh, I don't even have reason to believe that his mom did anything wrong. But the fact that they moved in those circles, that's the thing that was most interesting to me is just the, the whole idea that there is this small cabal

• 9:51Tom Bilyeu?

  of elites that really sway the direction of the world. Uh, just proves to be more and more true with each passing day. And so seeing all of the people that were communicating via email directly to Epstein or Epstein's assistant is wild, is wild. Taking a short break, but there's more Impact Theory after. Stay tuned. There's a reason Quince sells cashmere for $60, and it isn't the cashmere. It's real 100% Mongolian cashmere. It's the same stuff luxury labels charge a fortune for. Quince just works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middleman.

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• 11:19Tom Bilyeu?

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• 12:04Tom Bilyeu?

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• 12:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Thanks for staying tuned. Now, let's get back to it.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  At the very high level, there's certain moments in history where we just get kind of these blips on the map of like politics. There's Watergate. There's, I did not have sexual relations with that woman. There's the 9/11. There's George Bush doesn't care about black people. To me, I think that this is, the Epstein files, when it released, and I was actually going through it, and I was like, hold on, wait, like, they said the quiet part out loud, like, they're releasing the thing. These are the actual files that we have been talking about, that Pam Bondi couldn't find, that Cash Patel said, oh yeah, he killed himself. It's, it's, all these people that had whatever forms of cover up, I have now released this documentation

• 13:26Speaker 02

  that is pretty damning, but it seemed like it was business as usual. We were talking about the Grammys red carpet. We're talking about what happened this weekend. We're talking about the ICE out protest. But I'm like, guys, did we not just see what, like, I, I saw one page, and I'm not even a journalist, and I'm like, hey, like, why are we talking, like, change the channel, hold on, like, you, you, we should shut stuff down. Like, I feel like this is something that people need to have a conversation about.

• 13:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, not only that, arrests need to be made. Like, you've really got to figure out what actually went on here, because the, all the files, in their lurid details, they paint a picture that is so troubling, that if, you don't need much more than a fraction of it to be true, for this to be earth-shatteringly problematic. Now, it's earth-shatteringly problematic for me, for a very specific reason. And that specific reason is, I believe there's architecture to the human mind, so we work in certain ways, and that those ways are knowable, they're mappable, and you've had people commenting for a long time that, okay, there's a small cabal of people at the top, and they're all

• 14:33Tom Bilyeu?

  interconnected. Okay, is that true? Is it not true? People saying there's a uniparty, is it true? Is it not true? That, you know, banking essentially runs the world, is it true? Is it not true? That these high-level people all have dirt on each other, and that's how they, like, keep everybody in line, is it true? Is it not true? And it's like, those dominoes start falling. Like, there, there was one exchange about Michael Saylor, of all people, and literally just reporting the exchange, this is a paraphrase, it was pretty close to exactly what was said. I believe it was said by one of Epstein's assistants. And she said, I don't even know that I can take Michael Saylor's money and promise him like a more dynamic life

• 15:17Tom Bilyeu?

  or something, a more exciting life, something like that. She was like, he doesn't pick up on social cues at all, like he's just insufferable. I can't stand to be around him. He has no personality. And it was like, she said the words, I wouldn't even know how to blackmail him. And so I was like, wait, so that like, that's such an open part of the playbook that we just like offhandedly go, yeah, look, we can't blackmail that guy. So just cut him loose, like rich though he may be. I need to know how I would blackmail this person. That was the one where like the banality of the throwaway comment of I wouldn't even know how to blackmail him.

• 15:56Tom Bilyeu?

  It's like how much ink was spilled over the idea of, you know, was he, was Epstein being used to blackmail people? It's like, was Epstein blackmailing people? Like, forget like whether he's tied to governments or not, like reading the Epstein files. Early days for me, I fully reserve the right to completely change my opinion and Lord knows, I hope I do. But reading it was like, okay, the, the governments of it all are downstream of this kind of extra governmental cooperation. But take cooperation to be coercion, blackmail, uh, just like horrific stuff of reaching in

• 16:40Tom Bilyeu?

  to the soul of the people who make the world move and going, what is that dark secret that you have? That I can make come true for you. And by making it come true for you, I have something over you. And by having something over you, we can now move things in the direction we want. Now there's no way that this stuff is pure coordination. It's going to be infighting. There are going to be different factions that are all going to war with each other and all of that stuff. For sure, for sure, for sure. I have my base assumption, though it may prove to be erroneous, but my base assumption is that.

• 17:13Tom Bilyeu?

  Just like a court in monarchies of old, there's all of the Machiavellian infighting and intrigue and all of that stuff. But it's like, we never really moved out of that system. This is just like the modern day version of that. And so, maybe you don't have kingdoms, but you have these different countries, all united under global economics, all united under this cabal of high level elites that, again, they're not all in coordination with each other. And if you read the mentions of Elon Musk, it's like, he hates Reid Hoffman and, you know, like, there's all these like, different factions within it, but it's like, this is architecture of the human mind.

• 17:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, I think the thing that's most distressing is that, fuck, the way the human mind works, the thing you just go for is always money and like bizarre sexual proclivities. And so, seeing like those two things come together, like, who, who can we blackmail? Because we give them access to money or power or whatever. And then who can we blackmail with access to sex that they can't talk about? Again, I don't know how much of it's true, but it just like, it's so interwoven throughout the whole thing. And so, yeah, that's the part where I'm like, okay, so this is how the human mind is. When you mix two things that we're mixing right now, you get a really ugly cocktail. Thing number one, humans do this.

• 18:40Tom Bilyeu?

  You create a, the iron law of oligarchy, you're going to have a small group of elites that run things. Then, you've got the, and the sexual proclivities of it all. And so, you end up putting those two things together in an era where everything becomes visible. Like, on a long enough timeline, social media just makes everything visible. And so, now, in a world where the only way to hide something is obfuscation, what does the world look like? And what I mean is a fancy word for, people are going to try narrative control, they're gonna try to pull the magic trick of look over here.

• 19:20Tom Bilyeu?

  It's why I am legitimately suspicious that wherever you, whatever state you go to do a fraud investigation, it will immediately be chased by ICE.

• 19:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Riots because it is just an easy way to say, no, no, no, this is all about race. This is, I think Newsom filed a discriminatory claim against Dr. Oz for saying that it's the, oh God, it's two nationalities.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Armenian.

• 19:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, Russian Armenian mafia or something like that. Which I would expect all of them to be white as the driven snow. But yet still, the cry is discrimination. So that's where I'm just like, uh.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  But before, before we get, because I think now we're starting to fight that to the humans like mine and I, but I want to jump into something because I think last week, when speaking of the ICE protests, we were justifying kicking out taillights equals death. And people were saying that like, they were outraged that, yes, because he did that, he should, he deserved to get prosecuted. And now we have a three million files.

• 20:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Yep.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Of things that I would think is worse than kicking out taillights. I don't know about you guys, but I feel like some of those allegations are a bit worse than taillights on the back of police cars. But yet that same vitriol for cry for justice isn't there. What do you think is, where, how do humans get up, be maybe it's because it's not the videos? Like, how, help me rationalize that, like?

• 20:50Tom Bilyeu?

  No, I think people have grabbed on to the Epstein files harder than they've ever grabbed on to anything ever in my lifetime. So I don't, people are not going to sweep this one away. Like this one really does speak to something and it is going to get headlines. And I think there are going to be prosecutions and I think this is going to be wild. The only thing that muddies the waters here is I can't give you good guys, bad guys. It's they're all bad guys. And so the reason that the Biden administration didn't release these, the reason that, and I still don't understand why on earth the Trump administration would run the, um, the gambit of saying, we're going to release these files. They had to know they didn't plan to release the files.

• 21:31Tom Bilyeu?

  And the reason that I think both sides did not want to release the files is they're all in there. They're all in there.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  It's too messy.

• 21:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, it's both sides, man. Everybody's going to get obliterated. I mean, this is like, this is structure of elite groups, like.

• 21:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Revealing, that's what you're showing is how does blackmail work? That's what you're showing. How do these groups get each other together? That's what you're showing. Who alive and active right now is actually connected? That's what you're showing. Like Epstein becomes the like Rosetta Stone of the elites. You can begin to map who's who, who's connected to who, who hates who? Who will show up because that person's there? Who will reject the invite because that person's there? Like it's, it's insane. Now, again, many of the accusations that I'm sure that are informing my mental map of this are just false. And so I will need to update my mental map as we go.

• 22:28Tom Bilyeu?

  But bro, between the just unrelenting litany of accusations of people who did something sexually horrifying.

• 22:41Tom Bilyeu?

  You just go, man, blackmail is a part of this. But that people are so easy to fucking blackmail. Like you want that to be harder. You want that to be like, oh God, like we try to blackmail these guys, but so many of them just aren't into weird shit. That's where I'm like, yo. And so is it a, is it a like personality type? When you want to ascend those ranks, is that somehow tied to a higher likelihood of being into weird shit? I don't know. I don't understand how to map this. This is why this whole thing is taking me so by surprise. But all of that is going to be held on to in an iron fist by the public. This one's not going away.

• 23:24Tom Bilyeu?

  The only reason that we got the files is because people were psychotic about it. And they're like, I may have voted for Trump. I will burn my allegiance to the ground. Fuck that kid. You're going to release these files. And so if there aren't prosecutions, people are going to go ape shit. Like I think this is way bigger news than Preddy. Like way bigger news. That that's just gonna fall by the wayside. I mean, look at some of the counts, man. I didn't even want to bring this one up because rumor, rumor, speculation, speculation. I have no idea. But just go look up how many views a single post about Jay-Z supposedly fleeing the country has.

• 24:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, it was like somewhere between seven and fourteen million, but it was a lot, a lot, a lot. And I was just like, it's just like a random account. It wasn't even like some big known account. Just some guy was like, well, isn't this suspicious? And I was like, that he got on an airplane because I didn't know where in what way he was mentioned. And so I was just like, uh, what? Like, why would it be weird that he's flying? But that's how much interest there is in who did what? How deep does the lie go? Like, okay, this one's gonna get weird. So the whole pizza gate thing, admittedly, when I say I'm not even at the headline level, I don't understand what that whole thing is. But some of the things that I started reading about it, I was like, oh, like they're really,

• 24:48Tom Bilyeu?

  it has a narrative that has enough question marks that you're like, oh, I thought it was lunacy. But maybe the lunacy was trying to make the topic itself toxic, so people wouldn't talk about it. Now, I don't know that any of this is true, but supposedly in the Epstein files, when they talk about pizza, pizza is code for sex trafficking. So would you like your slice of pizza means would you like your person's sex traffic to you? I don't know that that's true, but there were some weird emails where people are like, can I bring your slice of pizza now? Would you like your slice of pizza? Go send pizza to so and so. And I was like, man, they talk about pizza.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  These guys really like pizza. This must be.

• 25:30Tom Bilyeu?

  So, uh, and then there was one, okay, this is where I'm gonna, everybody should stop paying attention for nine seconds. And I'll just say it because it's rattling around in my brain, but man, this one really is, I don't know anything about it. But there was supposedly a pizza place where the guy was being accused of like being involved in all this. And the guy that owns a pizza restaurant was like listed as one of the like fifty most powerful people in Washington DC. And somebody fired a single bullet into his establishment. That single bullet happened to hit the hard drive in his establishment with like his records. And so I was like, oh, sorry. And so I'm just like, hey, it really could happen. This could be a fabricated document, but I was just like, oh, God, like this, yeah.

• 26:15Tom Bilyeu?

  So anyway, I remember reading James Burnham. And James Burnham is like, I don't know what the world is gonna look like because of social media, because you can't control the narrative anymore. And I remember thinking, yeah, what is the world gonna look like? And he had, like, when he was writing about it, and forgive me, James Burnham, if you don't agree with this assessment, but when he was writing about it, he said things that made me think he wanted or longed for.

• 26:42Tom Bilyeu?

  He said it in a way where it was like, they have to get narrative control again. And without narrative control, you're gonna have a problem. And I thought, hmm, we don't want narrative control. We want to be able to figure out what the truth is. And be careful what you wish for, because this is that moment where I'm now seeing what it looks like, when they're just like, here's everything. So first of all, no one's going to agree on what actually happened. There's so much of it. It's like, you, they always say, when you're gonna remodel a house, the contractor, if they're smart, will tell you, I won't know what we're dealing with until we open a wall. And then I can see how this was actually built. That's how this felt. They opened a wall and you're like, oh, oh, God!

• 27:28Tom Bilyeu?

  It's like, it's so bad. This, this is like paper mache, your house is rotten. There are bugs in the walls.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Throw the whole thing away.

• 27:36Tom Bilyeu?

  That feed on paper mache. And your whole house is paper mache. It's like, oh, my God.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Throw the whole house down.

• 27:42Tom Bilyeu?

  So I'm just like, whoa, yeah.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Uh, okay, so then now I'm conflicted. So thank you for that, that helped me process it. But now I'm on the other side, cuz to the point, there has to be, I keep going back to ICE, cuz I feel like that's just the last recent outrage. And it was like, Tom Homan came into Minnesota, was like, okay, guys, this is how we're gonna do it. This is where we're gonna do it. Everybody felt better a little bit, like, okay, the adults in the room, we can kind of figure it out. It should calm down, at least from here going forward. But when it's the president, the last president, a Supreme Court justice, is like, we don't even know who to, like, who are we going to call to do the thing? Cuz like, I can't ask you, cuz you were there, I can't ask you, you can't say nothing, cuz your husband was there. And it's like, we're running out of.

• 28:23Tom Bilyeu?

  You ready for the even worse part of that? What you're going to find through the release of these documents is that everybody who's gotten off or like, oh, that investigation didn't go anywhere. Or they threw that evidence out, you're going to see all of the connections. That, oh, this has been played out like this from the beginning because none of these are big enough news stories. The fact, this is all made up. I'm just giving you directional stuff. The fact that the judge was like the official at the wedding of the person uh, who was accused of this thing like happened to be sitting on the case. You're like, wait a second, why didn't they recuse themselves? There, there is going to be an endless litany of that.

• 29:06Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm saying that because I've read a bunch of documents pointing some of these things out. And I was like, what the fuck? Like there, again, speculation, no idea. This is going to be a rat's nest. It has to be gone through, detangled. But it's one of those where there's so much surface level. Like, as they say, the optics are so horrible that maybe the trials were perfect. Maybe everything was done above board, but the optics are god awful. And it's possible that it's just corrupt all the way down.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Do we actually get some form of accountability from this?

• 29:47Tom Bilyeu?

  You'll have to. Here, here's the, okay, so here's my, I'm reaching into the future of what's coming. The reason that the whole idea from James Burnham, that narrative control is critical. The only way that we can have the world that we're used to is if elites are able to spoon feed us a narrative. And then we all march in lockstep. Now, I use derogatory words for that, but there's so much power in that. Because the vast majority of life is perception. It's not reality. I'm not saying we're in a post-truth world or anything. There are things that are true. But we just really don't understand how much of human existence is just perception. And so.

• 30:33Tom Bilyeu?

  What we're gonna find out now is you're gonna get this massive fragmentation of that. And we're just gonna have to find a way to navigate a world in which there are all layout, like thirty-two flavors of what actually happened with the Epstein files. And then everyone will just slot into one of the thirty-two narratives. But that's a lot, pulling in opposite directions. Some of them will be directly contrary to the other. And they'll be able to sit with their best debaters and debate. And their followers will walk away going, yeah, I'm still right. And that's across all thirty-two. Thirty-two is a made up number from Baskin Robbins, but you get the idea. So it's like, there's gonna be the sort of-

• 31:09Speaker 02

  This is completely fake. This is all the way real. He's, it's real, but it's redacted. He was there, but he wasn't doing- And everybody will kind of get in line and what would make them feel better about themselves.

• 31:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Exactly correct, cuz it's gonna feed into what they already believe. Okay, so that's problem number one. Problem number two is going to be that this is insanely important. And you must pursue it because this is foundational to how the world works. We are in a moment where democracy, from where I'm sitting, is in crisis. America's in crisis. And you're, you have to have a trust anchor to pull you through. And we have to find that and establish it. Now, speaking of narratives, there's a movie called The Untouchables. The Untouchables gave Americans the narrative we needed to not fall to corruption, the way that so many others did during like the gang wars over prohibition.

• 32:00Tom Bilyeu?

  And so they found this group supposedly, this is all narrative, I know that. But they found this group of guys that just couldn't be bribed. And they were the ones that ultimately take down Capone and like all that stuff. And so they were known as the Untouchables because you couldn't kill a family member and they would back down. Like, these guys are just like, nope, this is what's right, we're gonna push forward. We, we need new Untouchables. I actually mentioned this a couple of months ago. We, we need that new group. So we're gonna need a trust anchor that's gonna pull us through this. Now-

• 32:30Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't think anybody's gonna trust the Trump administration. He's mentioned too many times. Yeah. He's too tied. So it's like, the trust anchor isn't gonna be this DOJ. So how do we get a trust anchor? I don't know. So this is where we're gonna want Congress to step in and say, okay, this is where we need leadership. We need somebody that's not mentioned in the Epstein files anywhere to put together a panel of people that are gonna run a blue ribbon committee that's gonna find out like truth and reconciliation of what happened. And we're gonna spend a whole lot of money and years combing through all that stuff, putting everything together and prosecuting people.

• 33:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Like dude, you, you cannot, you cannot let officials at the level that we're talking about here have done the kind of things that they're claiming that they've done without investigating and finding out what's true. Like you must, we can't just go, oh, well, crazy. There's just so many claims, nothing to do, it's too pervasive. Like the second you do that, that, that's just permission. That, so think what you want about what's going on in Minnesota. My take is when you give permission, even just by silence, that's, that's when things escalate. And so that's why I think you see that in Minnesota is, uh, Tim Walz is very fine with all of that happening.

• 33:57Tom Bilyeu?

  And the second he wasn't fine, then it deescalated. So I think you'll see the same thing. If you just brush your hands or dust your shoulders off and go, nah, it's, it's too overwhelming. We just need to move forward and nobody's banged that drum harder than me when it comes to political prosecutions. But on this one, bro, you, you just can't. And so you've got to have that committee. They've got to go through, there have to be trials. The trials have to be by Untouchables where we're just like, yeah, that judge is beyond reproach. Like, yep, we're gonna get to the truth. And, and then we have to let the law prevail. Because if we, on the flip side of that coin, if we just burn everybody down because your name was in the files, that doesn't make sense either.

• 34:40Tom Bilyeu?

  So we do need courts. We do need to do everything we can to find the truth. And we do need to lock up people if they were really doing this stuff. Because it is. Dude, every now and then you'll hear the stat that there's more slaves now than there's ever been in human history. I'm always like, what? Like, where are you hiding them?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:02Tom Bilyeu?

  And then you hear stuff like the Epstein files. And it's like, oh my God. Like, because if that's really true, and people really are being trafficked, and they're effectively being held against their will, you can't let that happen. Like, you can't. That is a crime against humanity of the highest order.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:22Tom Bilyeu?

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• 37:01Tom Bilyeu?

  Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Is this one of those things on the money side? People, the Federal Reserve got revealed. The quiet part was said out loud. People said the dollar is gonna die. Bitcoin was invented and now we're starting to decentralize from that. I know it's only 0.01%, but we know directionally going forward, it's gonna be more and more every year. Is this this black swan event where we can decentralize the government? Is this gonna be something where we're gonna like, we're gonna actually drain the swamp? We're gonna have to really, I don't wanna say revolution, cuz every time people think of revolution, they think of just burning stuff down. But would this be one of those moments where it's like, everybody in DC gotta go? Like, we gotta start all over?

• 37:43Tom Bilyeu?

  It depends on the timeline that you're gonna give me. So, right now, America is on a mathematical course to bankruptcy, which means roughly 10 years from now, if all things stayed the same, and of course they will not, but if they all stayed the same roughly 10 years from now, you will have torn yourself apart from the inside because of math. I won't derail us on that now, happy to talk about it later. But like, that's the path that you're on now.

• 38:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Something like this, I would say, isn't a black swan event. It, in the same way that math does not care who you vote for, any of that. This is like what Mom Donnie's learning in New York. It's like you can have all the socialist dreams that you want, but it runs up against math. And a $12 billion budget shortfall is a $12 billion budget shortfall. You just have to deal with it. So, we're gonna have the same thing. So, I don't think that the world looks the same moving forward as it does today. But I don't think it looks like the disintegration of the political system. Too many people alive only know that system. And then, I also don't think it looks like, so Balaji, if you guys don't know who he is, look him up. He's one of the smartest people I've ever interacted with. Personally, this guy is brilliant. I mean, really, really brilliant.

• 38:55Tom Bilyeu?

  And, but he has a base assumption that I cannot get on board with, that ideology is stronger than geography. And I think he's wrong about that. And I think the thing I worry most about, and I need only look inward in myself, when I map America going to civil war, and people get hung up on that word. But what I mean by that is, people in different tribes that are willing to kill each other, and then the government's not doing anything to stop it. So that to me is civil war. Now, when I reach into the future, I go, I need to move to Florida.

• 39:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Because that's where I'm like, California is not going to be safe for wealthy people. And so at some point, just because geography matters more than ideology, I need to go somewhere where wealthy people are not persecuted. And so the whole premise that Balaji has is geography is not going to matter. Because people will link up over the internet with each other based on their ideology and they'll form these like online tribes. And that's cool until somebody kills you because they disagree with you. And you're like, but wait, my bros in Bangladesh think the same way that I do. So what's the problem?

• 40:19Tom Bilyeu?

  And you'll just get trounced by physical violence. And so I think that Balaji's theories require a stable world, which we do not currently have. So that's where I'm like, nope, geography still matters a lot. So I don't think you're going to see a total breakdown of the current style of government that we have, because that style of government is baked into geography matters, doing everything that we can to brace ourselves against tyranny, which I hope people in America don't want to let go of. But I do think that in the next 10 years, we're going to see a rapid increase in the self-selecting into red and blue states. And that really scares me.

• 41:03Tom Bilyeu?

  And so then how fragmented will it become? All eyes on Alberta, please. If Alberta actually breaks away from Canada, which they say they are doing. If Alberta actually breaks away from Canada, which I'd be very interested to know what the polymarket bet is on that. But if they break away from Canada, that's your map of what civil war looks like. So it would be states fracturing and creating alliances in the same way that they do in Europe. Where America now is a federation of states versus just like a European Union, where it's far looser. That I could see in our, call it 50-year future. But a lot of this is so predicated on AI.

• 41:47Tom Bilyeu?

  When I make statements like this, I'm like, Sci-fi writers will often do, they'll just set a certain technology off to the side. Dune sets aside AI because it doesn't want to try to deal with what that would look like. You kind of have to set AI aside because it, the world is unknowable if the singularity actually happens.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's wild. Um, I know we got some other stuff we got to jump into. This is like a very sensitive topic still. So having a 14 year old, I was personally affected by this. I feel like this is something that shouldn't be glossed over. I think if a lot of these things are confirmed, this is disqualifying. This is damning. Um, Bill Clinton had to step down because he got some head one time in the White House. I feel like half of these-

• 42:33Tom Bilyeu?

  He didn't step down.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  He got impeached.

• 42:35Tom Bilyeu?

  He got impeached, but he stayed president until the end of his term.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Well, I feel like it's disqualifying and I think that a lot of people need to get up, get up out of there. Um, I need to call my friends with law degrees. It's time to like start the revolution. I think these people are disgusting. I think it's vile. I think it's sick. I think it's mean. I don't think this is one of those like, well, you know, both sides are in its politics and nah. There's a, there's a line, we could both sides tax policy, we could both sides healthcare, but we can't both sides pedophilia. Uh, this is damning. A lot of these people I would never, I would unfollow. I would never take their opinion on anything again. Because six months ago, you were talking about how Epstein is a POS. And then you're asking Epstein, hey, man, I really need to blow off some steam. Can I come through tonight? Um, so yeah.

• 43:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I think that that is going to be shared by a lot of people.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:22Tom Bilyeu?

  A lot. It's not going away. No way.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  We've got one super chat on the Epstein files if you want to hit that.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  Cool. Uh, so let's see. The ICE issue is fast food accessible, satisfying, designed to speak to your deepest biological urges. Epstein is clean eating and exercise, large amounts of complex info, but requires discipline and commitment to really grasp from thirsty salt.

• 43:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, so I'll say that a better way to slice that would be that you can approach any topic from a fast food perspective. So you can take your fast food perspective on ICE. You can take your fast food perspective on Epstein, which many people are going to do. And then you can take the more sophisticated exercise, hard work, nutrition, holding competing ideas in your head, all of that on both issues, which I think we need to do very aggressively. But most people are not going to do that. That's the bad news. So I would say it's probably an 80/20 break. 80% of people just are going to take the fast food approach to virtually everything in their lives. And then 20% of people will actually take the time to parse

• 44:28Tom Bilyeu?

  the stuff apart. But yeah, this is going to be a rocky road for sure.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  And then Lisa and John Doe both mentioned Lisa, your wife.

• 44:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's go.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  And they both mentioned they would like you to talk about the victims, especially because a lot of those names that are mentioned are going to get lost in all of the famous, powerful names. And some people may have their lives ruined, things like that.

• 44:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, so okay, my, yeah, my, my take on that, and I'll be very curious to see if this is satisfying to the people that want me to talk about it. My take on that is it is a devastating truth of the human condition that sexual abuse shatters people, shatters people, in a way that most people are just not able to put the pieces back together. And that feels like a very cruel twist of fate for how the brain is wired. So the devastation that anything like that, whether it's a part of a big ring, which of course adds a layer of horror to all of this that is impossible to quantify. But everybody touched by sexual

• 45:36Tom Bilyeu?

  abuse, it's just devastating. So yeah, for sure, this will have ruined an ungodly number of lives. And I want for the victims, not only justice, but whatever anonymity they seek. And that's going to be the hard part is this will require some people to be ridiculously brave and come forward and detail what happened.

• 45:58Tom Bilyeu?

  But I don't see any way around it. So but that that is brutal and all of our hearts should bleed collectively for anybody that that's happened to. It's brutal.

• 46:09Speaker 02

  We ran a poll in the chat. Did this confirm the way you view humans, the elites? Did this change the way you view humans and elites or just confirm it? And confirmed one by sixty nine percent. So our audience has realized that humans and elites were POSs for a long time. So

• 46:25Tom Bilyeu?

  That's rough, man. That's rough. Yeah, I guess I'm not surprised by that number, but I am heartbroken by that number. So, yeah, social media unfortunately has really pulled back the curtain on human behavior where you can see global news all the time. You just begin to see patterns. It's brutal.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  And then somebody said in the chat, like, how many of the victims are even still alive to come forward? That's something we haven't talked about. The allegations that some people are buried in the back of

• 46:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, that's the thing. So I won't say their name just because it strikes me as unwise. But one of the pages that I read talked about, certainly for somebody of my generation, somebody who's very, very famous, allegedly strangling a woman to death at a party. And I was just like, there was that movie Eight Millimeter. And I remember watching that movie and just being like, this is so like out there. Like, there's no way. First of all, it doesn't sound fun to watch. And then I was just like, there's no way like there's enough of these people that there's actually a market for getting out of here. And so it was like, you suspend disbelief, you watch it, and then I'm reading that and I'm going, is this really a thing?

• 47:43Tom Bilyeu?

  So and then, of course, you flashback to all of human history and you realize, yo, humans are cruel. Humans are cruel and they will kill people in the most horrifying fashion. So it's like, damn, you've got the historical correlate. And for some reason, like, it's really comforting to believe that right now we're at the end of history, that we are not subject to whatever strange evolutionary forces make us capable of tremendous evil. That we're somehow outside of that. And then you read the Epstein files and you realize, oh, no, no, no, we're still right in the thick of it. And it is unfortunately in keeping with everything we know about humans throughout history. It's freakish.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Change how you approach politics going forward in the sense that there are some people that would this impact your midterm decision? Would this impact some of the politicians? Do you think when people are campaigning, there's going to be a sect of people that search the Epstein files like who's running in my district?

• 48:43Tom Bilyeu?

  Of course, of course. So I would like to think that my opinions will be formed by what actually goes through the legal system, but like anybody, it's not a good look. So if there are just a litany of horrifying accusations against somebody, I'd be surprised if somewhere in my subconscious, that's not saying like, hey, I know it hasn't gone through the legal system yet, but yeah, it's not a good look. It's not a good look. I so hunger for somebody who feels like an untouchable, somebody who feels uncorruptible, somebody who gives me a vision that I can look towards. Man, yes, I don't know enough

• 49:28Tom Bilyeu?

  about him to like be full-throated on that, but certainly, uh, early indications would be yes. So you need people like that, but they also have to have good policies. So it's like, I don't want you to drive me off a moral cliff and I don't want you to drive me off an economic cliff.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  I need a Thomas Massey Ro Khanna card in 2028.

• 49:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Khanna, I had so much fun with you when I interviewed you, but he's doing economic things that do not make sense.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  That's why him and Thomas Massey would balance out because Thomas Massey is a hard budget, uh, like reduced to deficit person. So I feel like if those two together, that would be like-

• 50:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Massey's the guy with the debt pin, right?

• 50:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I'm on that team.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, that would be a super team. Um, somebody said, uh, Thomas Massey and Rand Paul. Yeah, but they're both libertarians. That's too, that's too one-sided. That'd be too one card. You need somebody on the other side. Roe is the most like thought-provoking, level-headed Democrat in the field right now. He's the only one who hasn't gone full like, I'll do whatever, um, Nancy Pelosi says, or I've gone for, uh, Mom Donnie. So I feel like that's why Roe's good on that side and Thomas Massey is the only Republican I know that's actually holding Trump accountable, that's actually holding us accountable to the deficit, that's actually holding us accountable to, for America as opposed to just playing team ball. So.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Lisa Billius back in the chat.

• 50:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's go Lisa Billius.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  And she says, tough question, Tom, would you still have voted for Trump if you knew what was in the files?

• 50:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, I wouldn't even say that I know enough about the specific specifics of Trump's accusations now to let that sway me, but would I look into the accusations before voting? Yes. Now, the question is, and I fear that this is going to be the question that we all have to answer.

• 51:20Tom Bilyeu?

  If you're put in a situation where like, take Mom Donnie, assume that Mom Donnie is a true believer, that it is with love in his heart, and assume he has nothing troubling in his past. So he has love in his heart and no troubling past, but he's marching down the path of a system that kills millions on millions on millions. Would you vote for somebody who's obviously very early in that path? Mom Donnie is not going to kill people, but would you vote for somebody who's headed down that path? Or a moral monster who's going to do things that are better for Americans? God, I hate that question.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  You cannot trolley problem this time. This is.

• 52:06Tom Bilyeu?

  You have to.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  No, absolutely not. There's disqualifying things. No way.

• 52:11Tom Bilyeu?

  You have to.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  No, no, Tom, no way. No way. Tom, I love you. No way. Come on, come on. This is not, do I, do I kill one small parent? Do I kill one six-year-old in order to save forty, forty million people? Okay, yeah, that's different, but like, there's like, we're talking about like PDF files, dog. Like, like, this is not like a, so like socialism will have to break bad for 20 years and you said it yourself, nothing is, stays the same for that long in order for those millions and millions of people to, to actually be impacted. He impacted those little girls now, like today.

• 52:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so hold on, just to make sure that we're being clear. If you look at the files and it's like, oh, he did that? Easy.

• 52:54Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm saying if you're looking at something, you think hmm, I don't like this guy's morality. Not that I know that he's doing something like that, but I'm looking at this guy like even take Trump. So right now, Trump is not going to go to jail for this. If they had a smoking gun, they would have played it a long time ago. However, Trump did say, I heard him with my own ears, grab them in the hoo-ha. And that was to me, that's a moral monster. How can you do that? That's so insane to me. So, and yet, when I looked at the economic collision calamity that we were going to have,

• 53:33Tom Bilyeu?

  that was for me, better to go with that guy than to march down socialism. Now, if there were things rape, underage girls, all of that, cool, easy peasy, you wash your hands. But there is a line where it's like, yeah, I am going to think about what's actually good for Americans. Now, you and I may have different base assumptions. The base assumption that I'm making is the calamity for millions of people. If you get economics wrong, remember, I think economics is foundational to like all the woes. You look at gangs running a country, that's economics. Okay, economics led us to that place.

• 54:18Tom Bilyeu?

  You look at a nation falling and the calamity that that brings upon people, that's economics. You look at slavery, that's economics. So it's like that kind of stuff to me, clearly, I rate as way more important than you do. And fair enough, but I want to be very clear. If somebody is convicted of pedophilia, you're done.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Keeping up with this debate, right? So the numbers are good, so I'm cooking here and I'm staying here for a second.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  We're saying that economic downfall is more important to you as a determining factor than some moral repugnant.

• 55:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Let me make this a real case.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:03Tom Bilyeu?

  So we can see what we're looking at.

• 55:06Tom Bilyeu?

  Mao killed 45 million people, starved them to death with police. He then chased that with.

• 55:16Tom Bilyeu?

  The Cultural Revolution, which killed tens of millions more. Deng Xiaoping ended all of that and pulled whatever 400 million people out of poverty. Insane. Now, if you told me that Deng Xiaoping was a disgusting human morally, would I still rather him over Mao? And let's say Mao really believed everything he was saying. He didn't, but let's say he did. You've got one guy who's killing, I mean, some people put it at like 80 million people. It's so many people. So for me, it's self evident. It doesn't matter. If you can tell me that that's what Deng is going to bring,

• 55:57Tom Bilyeu?

  and I have to accept that this guy is morally corrupt. He's a, you know, moral monster. But he's going to end what Mao was doing. Yes, unfortunately, I will take that. And it's interesting that that's not going to be a popular opinion. And I don't know what to do with that.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  No, because I feel like that's a hindsight is 2020 type thing. Because I think if on the ballot, it was Trump with the, if it's Trump, 100% Epstein files are true versus Mao 45 million people. That's a moral conundrum and that's something that we'll really have to mull on. And some people will be like, oh, easy. 45 million people like I'll take the 45, but at least little girls aren't being touched the wrong way. And on the other side, people will say a couple of girls is cool. If I could just get through, I'm avoiding 45 million. I can understand that apples to apples comparison if that was on the ballot. But we can't say that the last election cycle, it ends up becoming.

• 56:49Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, that's why I said for me, it is very simple and clear. If you've got somebody who is convicted, you wash it away for the very reason that you can't see into the future. And so at that point, you've got to bet on that the system will disrupt the march towards socialism. I don't want to make that bet, but I would make that bet when I don't have other data. But what I'm saying is for me, this is, this is a trolley problem. And I don't think people give enough credit to how devastating economic missteps are.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  I think with the release of these files, it definitely taught us that these politicians, although they smile, although they kiss babies, although they're really nice when you meet them and shake their hand in the suit, behind closed doors, that's not who they actually are. This is a mass, this is a character, they're playing somebody. They're all actors. So I understand that people aren't who we think they are. I just think that specific question, we have to be like hard about that because I think that's one of those things that we're starting to slip and lose as a nation. Back in the day when we were all controlling the narrative, the shared narrative was religion. Professor Jing, I can't even take credit for this, said, "The reason we can never build the pyramids again is because we don't have a shared narrative for a higher being that

• 58:09Speaker 02

  we all want to do something for this God. We're all getting together, we're all rallying, and we're gonna build this temple and this monument to this God who did all these things for us, and we all love him and we're all in one accord." Right now, we don't even have a shared God, we don't have a shared narrative. I could put blue in front of you, somebody's like, "Well, technically, it's aqua blue," somebody else is gonna call it royal blue, and we can't even agree what the color of the sky is. So I think where we are right now, we're starting to lose bits of our humanity in this bit by bit, where it becomes, "We're okay with seeing people die, we're okay with seeing people uncomfortable, we're okay with seeing sexual assault, we're okay with victim blaming." And slowly but surely, we're getting to a point where it's like, "Okay, yeah, well, I don't care about nobody outside of my five family members. If you're not related to me, or if you're not hired by me, I don't care about you."

• 58:51Speaker 02

  And I feel like that's becoming tribal, like our character and our personalities becoming tribal, and I think that that's something that we're gonna lose as a society when we lose that collective and that shared, at least acknowledgement, the shared, I don't wanna say responsibility, but the shared humanity, I guess is the only word I can use.

• 59:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Listen, I love what you're saying, there's no doubt. I don't think the world works that way, and I think that the world is unfortunately a very dark place ruled by power. I think humans are capable of great love and joy and compassion and doing acts that are truly courageous and unbelievable, there's no doubt, but the world, humans, Solzhenitsyn said it best, when he said, "The line between good and evil runs through every human heart." So when...

• 59:42Tom Bilyeu?

  When judging whether somebody is going to be the right person to lead, you have to factor all of it. What are their actual policies? What will be the outcome of this? Are they a moral monster? Are they somebody that I can look up to? You can rule people out. You've been convicted of something like that. Cool, they're off the table. Just to know in certain terms, nice and easy. The thing that I'm trying to keep in the spotlight is the very thing that we were talking about before, which is, are people going to take a fast food approach to this? Or are they actually going to take diet and exercise? And what I'm saying is, the Epstein files reveal architecture of the human mind. They reveal how elite groups work.

• 1:00:26Tom Bilyeu?

  They reveal how interconnected and terrifying that system is. And lord knows, that I hope that we find a way to elevate leaders, maybe a Thomas Massey or somebody like that, elevate leaders who are worthy of being followed, that have both sound policy and a moral compass. There would be nothing better than that. The example that I always use though, is Lincoln. And, or let's take George Washington. George Washington owned slaves. We have to contend with that. But George Washington also gave you the presidency. He could have become king. The people would have said, yes, let him do it. And he didn't. And that was even talked about in France.

• 1:01:11Tom Bilyeu?

  They were like, this guy is so popular, that they referred to him as the king of America. They're like, there's no way he's going to step down. Remember, there's nothing in the constitution at the time he steps down after a second term that says you have to step down. He could have just kept going and going and going and going. And he set the cultural standard of, there's only going to be two. This was a guy that led on the battlefield and was an extraordinary leader that the opposition felt had been touched by the hand of God because they could not kill him. He had at least one bullet hole in his coat where he was shot and it ripped through. Like this is not, but didn't hit him. This is not somebody who was safe and off to the side. So like, when you really dig into Washington, you're like, holy fuck.

• 1:01:56Tom Bilyeu?

  But then you're also like, the teeth in your mouth were pulled out of the mouths of slaves.

• 1:02:01Tom Bilyeu?

  And literally, for people who don't know that. So I'm saying that's real life. And if we, if you're asking me, if today, if I knew there was a guy running for office that had slave teeth in his mouth, would I vote for him? The answer is no, obviously not. But I'm just saying, fuck, life is messy. And when I'm deciding who to vote for, I am not saying, oh, this person is somebody who I want to be like. I decidedly do not want to be like Trump. I am aghast at his approach to women, aghast.

• 1:02:41Tom Bilyeu?

  And I voted for him because I'm looking at the average American's life and going of these two candidates, which is going to be better? And my decision was based on that. Now, again, I can tell as I say these things that that isn't going to be popular. But nonetheless, I can articulate my base assumptions. I can explain why I would do that. For me, it is, it is a acknowledgement of the historical truth of where these things go, and they are devastating.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  There's something you said earlier that I kind of want to spin back on. When you were saying like, this is how the world always was. There wasn't, we were always caste system. This was always monarchs, but now we're just kind of rebranding it. We're changing the names, we're changing the phrases. That kind of reminds me of the like Comme des Ants axiom that like slavery is still around, it just morphed. As in like specific to America, I know that there's actual indentured servants, there's actual people slaves and things like that. But like the quote unquote slave class became the employee class. And then the quote unquote overseers became the landowners or the rent seat, the landlords. And then there's like, kind of like this elite class was always there. Is this one of those things where even going back to the George Washington days, it was

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  around from that perspective? And it just, George Washington was the last good one, then somebody kind of snuck in, just like with the Fed kind of snuck in early and dictated? Or do you think America was founded on this elite and?

• 1:04:12Tom Bilyeu?

  I think that the human mind works in a certain way. I need a better way to say that. We, we are all NPCs in a simulation and we cannot escape our programming.

• 1:04:23Tom Bilyeu?

  And so because of that, now, we're not all programmed the same. And that's part of the problem. Because we are not programmed the same, we filter out into like these different roles. But I really believe God, evolution, whatever, had to create a dynamic such that the human race would move forward on the back of culture, but would never stagnate. And so you need like all this fighting, you need people to be products of their time, so that as times change, the people change, all that. So what I feel like all of this reveals where we are right now in human society is simply a stop on a corkscrew spiral that will never end.

• 1:05:06Tom Bilyeu?

  And that's why people say history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes. Why does it rhyme? Because the human mind works in a certain way. When you take it en masse, it works in a certain way. All of us are very different. Anybody who's married knows that you and your wife are wildly different. But at the same time, you're different within bounds and you react very similarly to very similar stimulus. And so when I look at this, that's what I see. I see the iron law of oligarchy is true because there are going to be people who are smarter. There are going to be people who are more obsessed. There are going to be people who crave power. There are going to be people who crave to be looked at. And when you put all of that together, and then you're going to get all the opposites of those.

• 1:05:50Tom Bilyeu?

  And when you put all that together, you get the world that we see. There are only certain people that have the personality role that take them all the way to wanting to run everything, to wanting to be at the top, to being morally ambiguous, being able to, you know, dip into the gray area, like, yeah, to run a country, you, you have to be very comfortable in the trolley problem all day, every day. Because you are constantly sacrificing some people to save others, whether that's, we went in and killed a bunch of Venezuelans because we felt like that was the right thing to do. Well, I imagine that's very cold comfort to the woman whose husband did not come home, whose, you know, to kids whose dad did not come home. And then who knows how we'll change the people who would have been influenced by that

• 1:06:35Tom Bilyeu?

  oil, right? And not all of them are going to be leaders. Some of them are going to be average people. How many people are suffering in Iran because of what we're doing there? Now, maybe they're glad. Maybe it gives them a chance to finally break free. And certainly, I fall in that camp. But America forced them to be in the economic position that they're in. That didn't happen by accident. That happened through sanctions. And so now it's like, yeah, like, there are people whose lives have been completely upended, or all the way just ended because of choices that we made. And we don't know if 10 years down the road, this will be better or worse. So the reason that the world is structured the way that it is structured is because that's how people are. And there are people who

• 1:07:20Tom Bilyeu?

  draw a line in the sand, and they're like, nope, I, I think these things are right, and I will never bend. And then other people are far more flexible. And I fear that government attracts the people that are far more flexible. And so that's what I see. It is horrifying. And yet.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Okay, I want to jump into some stuff because Twitter's popping off right now about some like, there's two sides I want to go with it is now the ramifications of these files being released. There's already kind of a few dominos releasing. I want to start with Thomas Massey. Speaking of devil, we were just talking about him. Starting with his tweet going back to January 30. He said, if you're reading the Epstein files right now, it's because of I'm in Congress and fighting. I'm not taking any credit, at least as much goes to Ro Khanna from Rep Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, and Nancy Mace. And too many documents are still being withheld or redacted, but we'll get to that too. It was not a hoax. I cannot be bullied. I am not done. And this is why those in powers are doing everything in their power to defeat me. And then he released, within hours of

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  the Epstein file release, a super PAC funded by Israel first billionaires, Miriam Addison, Paul Singer, and John Paulson, who himself appears in Epstein's black book, bought another $800,000 of TV ads against me. I'll still win, but if I lose, it was worth it. Do you, now that this has gotten out, is this kind of an example, just one example of the elites kind of now saying, let's buy that narrative control back? People who have pushed to get this transparency, let's attack them, try to defame them and kind of start bringing them down.

• 1:08:46Tom Bilyeu?

  Of course.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Of course, you're gonna see a massive immune response. You're going to see people try to reassert control, uh, try to own the news cycle, try to get the troublemakers out of office a thousand percent. So, I mean, this is the, this is the great tragedy of how we are that I don't. So, okay, you can give, you can give a moralizing speech, which maybe I should, so that it's on the record. And then you go back to, we have to deal with reality. The moralizing speech goes like this.

• 1:09:26Tom Bilyeu?

  The world ought to be a certain way. Ought is a call for morality. There is a reason that humans have gotten to where we've gotten now on the back of religion. Religion exists to fill a God-shaped sprocket, not hole, a God-shaped sprocket in the brain, so that it makes certain gears turn. And it allows us to very easily say, you ought to behave like this. Now, that architecture can and has been co-opted many times. And in the name of Jesus, uh, the crusades were launched. Let that one sink in.

• 1:10:09Tom Bilyeu?

  So it can go very, very wrong, but at the same time, it allows us to say, you don't need to understand why, you just need to believe that God, whichever God that would be, wants you to think and act like this. That allows for tremendous group cohesion in huge groups that transcend borders. It's basically the largest tribe that we've been able to build via iconography and ideas that can be instantly transmitted. If I've got my cross on, then somebody knows, oh, cool, you're part of my tribe. If I've got my Star of David, somebody knows, oh, you're part of my tribe. I don't have to have met you before. I just know that's what you're about. Cool.

• 1:10:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, so, given that the world ought to be a certain way and that when done right, your ought has survived for thousands of years, specifically because it really does improve people's lives.

• 1:11:09Tom Bilyeu?

  And humans are capable of tremendous beauty and good and

• 1:11:17Tom Bilyeu?

  to be alive is a gift of untold proportions and I'm certainly very grateful for it. And so I want to see the world run by people that focus on how the world ought to be. And they are good and just warriors who sacrifice everything to be of service to other people. And they are leading precisely because they were called. That gear plugs into their brain, doesn't have to be a known religion, but that gear of like, I want to serve my fellow man clicks into place and it turns for them and they are willing to give everything up in service of that.

• 1:11:59Tom Bilyeu?

  And accordingly, this is not somebody who you're going to find with the most insane skeletons in their closet that just rule them out completely. Okay, I want that world. I want to be a part of that world. And every now and then we see glimpses of it. I don't know Thomas Massey well enough to know if he's the guy, but like, let's use him as an avatar. That's the kind of person that you want to see lead.

• 1:12:23Tom Bilyeu?

  Unfortunately, when I look back at history, that isn't who actually leads. And the people, and it's not like you'll get, and I haven't done a deep enough dive on him to know what his version of slave teeth in his mouth are, but Marcus Aurelius, right? Seems to be considered by many historians, the last great emperor, one of the last three. I forget if he was the dead last, but he was like one of the last great Roman emperors. And he had a guy that followed him around and said, remember, you're just a man, you're just a man, you're just a man, because everybody would refer to him essentially as a deity. And so he wanted to remind himself through philosophy that he was not above anybody else,

• 1:13:07Tom Bilyeu?

  that this is about policy, that you had to have policies that had good outcomes, you needed to be around the people, you needed to understand how this stuff played out, and you needed to understand your own mind. And that was the thing that made him such a breakthrough was, he wouldn't have used these words, but the human mind works in a certain way. We have to understand how fallible we are. We have to understand that the line between good and evil runs through every human heart. I am just as susceptible to making mistakes and all of that. Okay, that's the closest thing to like a real world person, somebody who is flawed, somebody who is of this earth, who is doing their best to navigate this. Now, you give me somebody like that to choose from, and I'm going to choose that person.

• 1:13:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Unfortunately, there seems to be some sort of selection process that makes that kind of person in the upper echelons extraordinarily rare. And the question becomes why? Now, I have a base assumption that the ascent to political power is a violent game. It doesn't always take place with actual knives being jabbed into you, but it is like backroom stabbings, blackmail, get people out of the system. Wheeling and dealing. Yeah, like all of that stuff. They're gonna ice you out, they're gonna ruin your reputation, they'll make it impossible for you to get elected, blah, blah, blah. All the kinds of things that have come out a gazillion times. And so there's a reason, like if you actually read The Prince by Machiavelli, what he was trying to say is, I'm not speaking to how the world ought to be,

• 1:14:32Tom Bilyeu?

  I'm speaking to how the world is. And so when people look at Machiavelli, they think he was putting it forward as that this is a moral thing that you ought to do. And he was just trying to advise the government on how you, the world of Realpolitik. Now, the second you get into Realpolitik, people have this really weird reaction to it. And I feel like it is simply because they have never delineated in their own mind between is and ought.

• 1:15:04Tom Bilyeu?

  So we can talk about ought, we can talk about the world that we want, and hopefully we aim for it. And what you're talking about, I think, when you say, I worry we're gonna lose our humanity, is people are no longer aspiring to ought. They've given in to is. And given the way the human mind is, we need people pushing for ought. We need people, like this was, my phase one was just all about the person you could become. And then, over time, I realized only doing this is making the world very confusing to me. And so I need to learn how the world is. Now, if you can do both, so much the better. Hey, we ought to be this way, but we have to remember the world is this way.

• 1:15:49Tom Bilyeu?

  And so we're gonna have to drag this along with us because you're never gonna be able to transcend the way that the human mind is, the way that people are en masse. But part of the way that people are en masse is that they will heed the call of an extraordinary figure who can show you how the world ought to be. So let's talk about Martin Luther King Jr. He gave us a vision of how the world ought to be. He was also having affairs. So it's like, okay, he is doing something I would never do in a million years. And yet, he is somebody I admire tremendously. So that, to me, is the conundrum. Would I throw Martin Luther King out with the bathwater? No, I would not.

• 1:16:34Tom Bilyeu?

  Would I say, for me, that's a moral monster? In that way, yes. I believe that if you're in a relationship with somebody and you tell them, I'm not going to cheat on you, break up with them, but don't cheat.

• 1:16:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Hey, fallible? I'm fallible? Holy Jesus, the line through good and evil runs through every human heart. I feel I hate how clay my feet are. I understand how at risk to being human I am and doing stupid shit and succumbing to my own emotions and all of that. I would lose respect for myself if I ever cheated on my wife. Nice and easy. So that's where...

• 1:17:21Tom Bilyeu?

  I go, okay, uh, this guy deals in the real world. He gave me a picture of where we ought to go. He inspired me and millions of other people. And at the same time, like, men have a drive to sleep with novel females. And so how we reconcile that is the thing for the ages. And I find most people just don't. They will either pretend that he didn't have any problems or they will cast him away. And I think both of those are a mistake. So the Epstein files for me is a big, cold, icy dose of is. And it's completely devoid of ought.

• 1:18:06Tom Bilyeu?

  And the speech that you gave earlier, which actually hit me and I liked it a lot, was, hey, we need a whole bunch of ought. And if we don't force ourselves to fight for ought, we will succumb to our baser nature. And that has an accelerating fact of its own. And I agree. And so we do need people that pull for this is how the world ought to be.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  Some people are pulling, I'm bringing up Cash Patel's former Congress testimony and saying that this should now be disqualifying and he like should be taken out. So just to refresh everybody's mind, this is what he said to Congress earlier last year.

• 1:18:44Speaker 04

  There's no credible information, none. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. And the information we have, again, is limited.

• 1:18:54Speaker 05

  So the answer is no one?

• 1:18:57Speaker 04

  For the information that we have.

• 1:19:00Speaker 05

  In the files?

• 1:19:01Speaker 04

  In the case file.

• 1:19:02Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  There's no credible information that he trafficked, not the, not the rimshot. So things like this in front of Congress, saying this, and then now with the release of the files, is this something that you think, you know, people need to start being held accountable in this way? Starting with Cash Patel, the FBI, the DOJ, the people who oversaw all the files and then have then said that we don't have enough to prosecute? When clearly you have at least enough to make arrests, bring in for questioning, have those?

• 1:19:30Tom Bilyeu?

  That, that one seems shocking to me. So, uh, it feels like he had to have known what was going on. And this is horrific. That felt like that period where I was just like. Dan Bongino's voice sounded so constricted when they gave that like, and I know, like, I'm reading into something, but I was like that from that moment forward, it felt like the men in black suits rolled up and said, let me tell you how the world really works. And now you're part of the cover up machine. So that feels like it's from the cover up era where they had expressly said, all right,

• 1:20:03Tom Bilyeu?

  we need you guys to go out and make this go away. And they did their best to make you go away. It, this is pure emotion on my side. I do not have any facts, nobody else has, but that's what that feels like to me. Like that's just wild, crazy town, crazy town.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I see somebody that says like case files and release files are two different things. Understood, we're just saying that with the information that was released, it's at least enough to start questioning people, at least enough to start questioning.

• 1:20:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I mean, listen, that, so the administration is going to have talking points that they want these guys to go out and say, so I imagine in reality, just good luck doing that without getting immediately fired. But the wiser way to approach something like that would be to say, listen, there's a lot there. We have not gone through it all. The stuff that we've seen, there's nothing credible. So this is going to take time and a deep investigation. We're willing to do that work. It's that kind of important. We're going to do it, but you're going to have answers in six or eight months. You're not going to have answers in six or eight days. So that people could get behind and be like, okay, look, fair enough. But the, there's nothing there. If there was anything credible there, I would have moved on it. Oh, Jesus. Bad luck.

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  Bad luck during, through. Cool. We had a class on Thursday.

• 1:21:16Tom Bilyeu?

  There we go. Yes, we do. We've got an AI masterclass this week. It's Thursday, February 5th at 1:00 PM Pacific time. I'm going to walk you guys through how to set up a five member AI team that's going to do the heavy lifting for you of launching a company, research, content, sales, all of it. And the kicker of it all, if you show up live, live, then we're going to give you guys a bonus worth hundreds of dollars. So for free, most people would pay serious money for this freebie. So make sure you join live. All right. Again, the live is free. Do not wait another year saying someday. Register right now. With AI on the horizon, you need to get this kind of leverage.

• 1:21:59Tom Bilyeu?

  There is going to be more disruptions to the job market and controlling your destiny is more important now than ever. I will see you there. All right, everybody. Until then, my friends, be legendary. And thank you all for joining us today. It was a massive day. Thank you, guys. You were wonderful. Peace. Let's talk about a pattern that is guaranteed to be killing your progress. You know what you need to do. You need consistent nutrition. We all do. You need vitamins, probiotics, greens. We all know that we should be doing more of it. When your morning gets chaotic, you skip it. When you travel, you skip it. When your routine breaks, everything tends to break and that inconsistency compounds against you every single day. AG1 is designed to solve the execution problem. One scoop, eight ounces of water, and you're done.

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