Perform your Truth with Jenifer Lewis

This week, Michelle and Craig are joined by the one and only Jenifer Lewis. Jenifer discusses her lifelong experience with bipolar disorder, her early experiences on Broadway and in Hollywood, and her longtime experience with sex addiction. Plus, in an IMO first, Jenifer spends some time workshopping her unreleased one woman show. Note: this episode contains discussion of sexual abuse and violence. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Michelle Obama?

  But I want to know, you know, you love sex, but you have never decided to settle down. Why? Why is that?

• 0:09Speaker 01

  I've been engaged four times.

• 0:11Michelle Obama?

  Not that that is tied together.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  No, I'm gonna tell you right now. I had the sex addiction in my twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, and early sixties.

• 0:22Michelle Obama?

  Until yesterday.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Oh, twenty minutes ago. You missed it. So anyway, listen. You gotta love it.

• 0:36Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Alloy Women's Health.

• 0:42Craig Robinson?

  Howdy.

• 0:43Michelle Obama?

  Hey, we are back.

• 0:44Craig Robinson?

  We are.

• 0:45Michelle Obama?

  Back in studio. I am O with Craig and Michelle. What's going on, dude?

• 0:50Craig Robinson?

  You know, I'm staying at an Airbnb.

• 0:52Michelle Obama?

  You are a guest.

• 0:53Craig Robinson?

  I am a guest. But what, you know what I was thinking about the holidays? Because we're gonna have people with us on the holidays and more than we can fit in our house.

• 1:02Michelle Obama?

  Oh, you guys are gonna have a big...

• 1:04Craig Robinson?

  Well, we're gonna have more than the people we can...

• 1:07Michelle Obama?

  The number of rooms in your house.

• 1:08Craig Robinson?

  That we can accommodate. And I was just thinking what a wonderful idea it would be to get folks Airbnbs nearby.

• 1:16Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17Craig Robinson?

  So that they don't have to go to a hotel and...

• 1:20Michelle Obama?

  'Tis the season for Airbnb.

• 1:22Craig Robinson?

  And everybody can enjoy the holiday cheer without having to worry.

• 1:26Michelle Obama?

  And then you can send them home. And then you can be like, have breakfast at your Airbnb. Don't come over here.

• 1:33Craig Robinson?

  Well, I'm still gonna be hospitable.

• 1:36Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 1:36Craig Robinson?

  You know? Yeah.

• 1:38Michelle Obama?

  And did you rent a car this time? Or are you driving a Rivian?

• 1:43Craig Robinson?

  No, no, I'm not driving a Rivian here, although I would love to have my Rivian out here in the wonderful LA.

• 1:51Michelle Obama?

  We're in LA. There are a lot of Rivian owners in LA. That's because electric cars' efficiency is key in this area.

• 2:00Craig Robinson?

  And you know, Rivian outfitted Misha and I with R1Ss, but I see a lot of R1Ts out here, which I don't see many of those in the Midwest.

• 2:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:11Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 2:12Michelle Obama?

  Well, I'm excited to get started because we got, we, we have a, our guest today, who I love dearly. And this will be the first time that I get to talk to her, talk like, because I have met Jennifer Lewis on several occasions. But it's always in passing. It's always, ah, it's good to see you.

• 2:34Craig Robinson?

  Uh huh.

• 2:35Michelle Obama?

  But we are going to have some conversation.

• 2:38Craig Robinson?

  We are.

• 2:39Michelle Obama?

  With Jennifer Lewis, y'all, the mother of Hollywood. She's about to come on, but it's not, not yet, Jennifer.

• 2:48Craig Robinson?

  So this is great. This is great because you've gotten to meet her.

• 2:52Michelle Obama?

  She's ready.

• 2:53Craig Robinson?

  You've gotten to meet her and I feel like I know her.

• 2:56Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:57Craig Robinson?

  Not through you, but just through all the body of work that she has done. It has been just, I mean, let me tell you.

• 3:03Michelle Obama?

  All right, let's do the official intro.

• 3:05Craig Robinson?

  So Jennifer Lewis is an actress, an author and an activist. And she has appeared in over 68 movies. And 650 episodic TV shows, four Broadway shows and concerts all over the world. And I, out of the 650 episodic TV, I wonder how many I've seen. It was probably 600 of the 650.

• 3:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Well, that's why she's the mother of Hollywood.

• 3:33Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 3:34Michelle Obama?

  Because she has mothered her way through Hollywood on, on show after show.

• 3:38Craig Robinson?

  And she is coming off of a tremendous recovery story that we're going to talk to her about. Along with, I love to hear her origin story, but she lives to be of service. And her, she walked into this building and you could feel the energy.

• 3:56Michelle Obama?

  Change the energy.

• 3:57Craig Robinson?

  Just change the whole place.

• 3:59Michelle Obama?

  For the good, for the good, by the way.

• 4:01Craig Robinson?

  So now you can come out, Jennifer.

• 4:04Michelle Obama?

  Everybody, Jennifer Lewis.

• 4:13Craig Robinson?

  Thank you so much, it's so nice to meet you.

• 4:15Michelle Obama?

  My brother, Big Brother Craig.

• 4:18Craig Robinson?

  Oh, Lord, have mercy.

• 4:19Michelle Obama?

  The other half helped Jennifer with her chair, be a gentleman.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Thank you, Craig, thank you.

• 4:25Craig Robinson?

  My pleasure.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Hi, everybody, hi, everybody. I'm so excited.

• 4:29Michelle Obama?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome.

• 4:31Craig Robinson?

  So, what do I call you, Jennifer, Ms. Lewis?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  You can call me Jennifer.

• 4:35Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  I only have my assistant call me Ms. Lewis, so we can keep the pecking on her rack. Yeah, she's new and she has said some things.

• 4:44Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Girl, she came in the first day and said, uh, I was laying up in the bed, you know, diva in the bed, you know, saying I need to call this one and that one. And then I went off, I said, you know, when I was a child. And she said, uh, Ms. Lewis, before you go into that side story, we've got four emails to do.

• 5:06Michelle Obama?

  Oh.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  I never knew they were side stories. She scared the shit out of me. I said, what? I said, is that what they are?

• 5:14Michelle Obama?

  Is that what they are to you?

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but she's fabulous.

• 5:18Michelle Obama?

  Let me ask, how old is your assistant?

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Uh, 33, I think.

• 5:21Michelle Obama?

  She's a baby.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Oh, no, and but, and she is so efficient.

• 5:24Michelle Obama?

  She, she seemed efficient.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  I'm so grateful to have her, you know, because I'm an independent woman, I want to do it myself. But honey, I turned 68, I ain't doing nothing by myself. I need, mama need a little help. I'm so scared.

• 5:39Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's good to see you. You, you are looking fabulous.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  I feel, I am happier

• 5:51Speaker 01

  than I have ever been in my life.

• 5:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  I'm in my skin.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  I know who I am.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  I'm far from perfect. Okay, maybe.

• 6:10Michelle Obama?

  Very close.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  So close.

• 6:12Michelle Obama?

  So close.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Oh, my girl, just two more inches. But I'm just happy because I did the work.

• 6:19Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  I went and took care of myself.

• 6:22Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. When did you feel this? Because I'm 61 now.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:28Michelle Obama?

  And there, and I've talked about this a lot. There's something about a woman, a black woman in her 60s, where I feel like I am sitting in my wisdom and my confidence in a way that I just never. So it's, it's starting for me. When, when did you feel that, that groundedness in yourself?

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Well, you know, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

• 6:52Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm, read about that, yeah.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  When I was in my early 30s.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  And I wanted

• 7:00Speaker 01

  to enjoy the fruits of my labor, and I wasn't.

• 7:05Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  You know,

• 7:09Speaker 01

  I came out with that, Michelle. I came out with hope. My whole childhood was, "Come on in here, Jenny. Come on, show it to me." And I was born with it. It was a gift. The gift of leadership, the gift of joy.

• 7:24Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  My job my entire life was to make people laugh.

• 7:32Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  But I wasn't happy.

• 7:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  And I wanted on my face what I left with everybody else's face. I wanted to be happy.

• 7:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  So because I went and stayed in therapy, I had to be re-raised.

• 7:50Michelle Obama?

  And when did you, when did you start therapy in earnest?

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Uh, I think I was 32.

• 7:55Michelle Obama?

  Okay, right, right before the diagnosis.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Right, AIDS, the AIDS epidemic had happened, and I had so many friends that died, and I had a nervous breakdown. That's what we used to call it.

• 8:05Michelle Obama?

  You said you knew more than 200 people who died.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Knew more than 200, you know? Everybody's gay on Broadway. And those were my friends. And I was on Broadway at the time. And Craig and Michelle.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  They dropped like flies. That was a pandemic. We were too young to see all that death. We weren't prepared to experience that. So when my best friend and so many others just boom, boom, boom. I had what they call a nervous breakdown. I couldn't hold myself in. And a very good friend of mine, who was a social worker, she looked at me. She said, Jenny, you need help. I said, I don't need help. I'm Jennifer Lewis.

• 8:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, and life was good.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  But guess what?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  I went twice a week for 20 years.

• 9:06Michelle Obama?

  To therapy.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  To therapy, and it was worth every second. Oh, I just love myself.

• 9:15Craig Robinson?

  We love you.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  I say that on stage all the time.

• 9:20Michelle Obama?

  You know, but it's, we do love you.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Ah, thank you. You know, I say at the end, I'm gonna read some of my one woman show to you. I say at the end of this show, the show is what, is me telling everybody what that fall taught me, the recovery taught me.

• 9:37Michelle Obama?

  And just so that we clarify, because we're gonna get into it. For those of you who don't know, was it two years or has it?

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Three years ago. Next month will be three years.

• 9:46Michelle Obama?

  On a trip, and we will discuss this.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Yes, but I do wanna say that, that the end of the show says

• 9:54Speaker 01

  to the world, I just told you what it taught me. But I wanna thank everybody, cuz it was you that caught me.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  That's why I'm still here.

• 10:06Craig Robinson?

  Talk to them.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 10:08Craig Robinson?

  I like that.

• 10:09Michelle Obama?

  Everybody else taught you, but it was you?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  I never sat down a day in my life, but I got sat down.

• 10:15Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:16Craig Robinson?

  So let me go back to Misha's point about you getting therapy.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Y'all keep me on tracks. I got so many stories.

• 10:26Craig Robinson?

  And we wanna hear as many of them as we can. But you said for the very first time when you were 32, you went to therapy.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:36Craig Robinson?

  Anytime before that, did you?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Yes, I knew. I knew something was wrong.

• 10:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  I knew something was wrong.

• 10:43Craig Robinson?

  Please.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  All of my shows in New York, when I did clubs, the titles were Jennifer Lewis in the Cosmos. Jennifer Lewis Broke and Freaking Out. Jennifer Lewis on the Couch. I knew something was wrong. I was too manic. I couldn't gather my thoughts. And it was the dream, and that's what I want to express today to the people. It was the dream that sustained me. I had to get up, though I was manic and depressed. And baby, that depression was thick. I was sick.

• 11:27Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  But I didn't know it. Nobody knew it back then.

• 11:31Michelle Obama?

  Nobody knew.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  No bipolar. I told somebody the other day, girl, I was bipolar.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  But it was the dream that sustained me. You've got to find a passion in this life. I had to get up and go to dance class. I had to get up and go to voice class. I had to get up.

• 11:52Michelle Obama?

  And you pushed that getting up.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Because I had a dream. And I was, the vision was narrow. And I'm, you go ahead.

• 12:01Michelle Obama?

  Can we talk about where that dream came from? Can we talk about little Jennifer? Because, you know, I mean, you said you were always this person. You were born with the desire and the ability to bring joy to people. But you also say in your memoir that life was hard.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, yeah, it was. I'm gonna read something to you.

• 12:29Michelle Obama?

  It's from your one woman show. So let me just let people know.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Go ahead.

• 12:33Michelle Obama?

  Jennifer Lewis is working on a one woman show. And we are kind of workshopping here too. So you all listeners are gonna get a treat because we're not just gonna learn about Jennifer. We're gonna learn about how she processes and creates her gift.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Bingo.

• 12:51Michelle Obama?

  So one woman show is coming, which is gonna talk about the experience of the fall and what it taught you.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 12:57Michelle Obama?

  So we are gonna be referring in and out throughout this conversation.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 13:01Michelle Obama?

  Things that are happening, so please take.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  And I'm excited because, you know, I am not a shy person.

• 13:08Michelle Obama?

  No.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  But this is a masterpiece.

• 13:11Michelle Obama?

  It's a masterpiece.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  This is my life's work.

• 13:15Michelle Obama?

  And you are not modest.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:17Michelle Obama?

  You are not shy or modest.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  You know, there's enough people that are modest.

• 13:21Michelle Obama?

  I know.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Let's have some alpha women come up in here. So after I sing a song about you and some other divas in the world.

• 13:28Michelle Obama?

  And I'm not shy either. I wanna hear my song.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  It says.

• 13:33Craig Robinson?

  Well, if anybody's who cares, I'm shy.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Oh, you're so cute too.

• 13:37Michelle Obama?

  We forgot he was here already. No, I'm just.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  He's so cute.

• 13:40Craig Robinson?

  Thank you.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Okay, here it is. I say, after I sing this song, Black on Crack, I say to the audience, you know, I wasn't always this arrogant. I came from great poverty and experienced all the dysfunction that comes with it. I laid it all out in my memoir, The Mother Black Hollywood. The addictions, molestation, abortions, childhood abuse, all of it for the next generation to use and hopefully learn from, the Gen W's, X's, Y's, and Z's, mostly Y's. You gotta love.

• 14:15Craig Robinson?

  Wow.

• 14:16Michelle Obama?

  Well, let's go to the beginning.

• 14:18Craig Robinson?

  Yes, tell us about.

• 14:19Michelle Obama?

  Little Jennifer, you were the youngest of seven.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Yes, ma'am.

• 14:22Michelle Obama?

  To a 26-year-old mother.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yes, ma'am.

• 14:24Michelle Obama?

  In Missouri, a little bitty town. Tell us more about that girl.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  I'm gonna tell you more, cuz it's right here.

• 14:32Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  I wrote this.

• 14:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  And my mother was alive when I wrote it.

• 14:37Michelle Obama?

  When you wrote this.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  And she heard it. I'll just sing it down.

• 14:40Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  In these two rooms, we called the house where we lived for three years. Mama was 26 with seven kids, but all alone with her tears. We were just too young to understand why my daddy left in 59. Not enough food, not enough clothes.

• 15:08Michelle Obama?

  So how do you learn to dream in that environment? I mean, what is it that you think?

• 15:15Speaker 01

  You know, Michelle, we come in here.

• 15:17Michelle Obama?

  Because you do know that there are kids that are crushed.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  We come in here with gifts.

• 15:20Michelle Obama?

  From those circumstances, yes.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  It's the parents that gotta bring them out.

• 15:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  You gotta tell your kids they can be whatever they want.

• 15:28Michelle Obama?

  Did your mother do that for you, even at her age and in her fear and her trauma?

• 15:32Speaker 01

  She saw it. I think she was a little scared of it, too.

• 15:36Michelle Obama?

  I bet she was.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Although she wasn't scared of much. I sang my first solo in church when I was five years old. And from the reaction of the congregation.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  This wasn't a shouting church.

• 15:48Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  But baby, when I opened my mouth, they stood up. My mother cried. I'd never seen her cry. The preacher was going crazy. I was standing there with my thumb in my mouth going.

• 16:02Michelle Obama?

  Did I do that?

• 16:03Speaker 01

  I said, oh, this is life. And I never looked back. So the dream, being the baby, my life was, see me, mama.

• 16:16Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  I was the baby that, you know, that was six ahead of me. See me. So my life went like this. See me.

• 16:24Michelle Obama?

  See me. Y'all better see me.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  And then it came into this.

• 16:30Michelle Obama?

  See me.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Oh, you'll see me.

• 16:32Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  And then, you see this position, your arms will eventually get tired.

• 16:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  So they went down.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  So maybe you don't need to be seen so much.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Look in the mirror and find out who you are, little girl.

• 16:59Craig Robinson?

  Amazon has everything for everyone on your list. So you can shop for everyone with Amazon last minute deals. So Meech, what were some of your favorite holiday memories?

• 17:11Michelle Obama?

  When we were kids, the holidays were all about what we wished for.

• 17:15Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 17:15Michelle Obama?

  Right? We spent our time going through this list.

• 17:20Craig Robinson?

  Wish book.

• 17:20Michelle Obama?

  It was the wish book.

• 17:21Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 17:22Michelle Obama?

  And we waited for it to come. And that catalog, the big, big catalog, full of all the toys that you could ask for for Santa. And I think we spent months and months combing through that catalog.

• 17:35Craig Robinson?

  And people should know, it was a catalog that just had toys. It wasn't clothes, it wasn't appliances.

• 17:43Michelle Obama?

  But there were some special holiday things.

• 17:45Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 17:46Michelle Obama?

  You could get Christmas ornaments there. You could, in the catalog. So it was all holiday stuff.

• 17:51Craig Robinson?

  It was holiday stuff.

• 17:52Michelle Obama?

  But there was a special double edition toy section.

• 17:55Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 17:56Michelle Obama?

  That was just magical to go through. But that's the beauty of being a kid. You're in the position of doing the wishing.

• 18:03Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 18:03Michelle Obama?

  But as we became adults and parents of our own, we learned that we were the wish granters when it came to the toys that Santa didn't buy.

• 18:12Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 18:12Michelle Obama?

  And that changed the whole memory of Christmas.

• 18:15Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 18:15Michelle Obama?

  Because then Christmas became standing in long lines. You know, being frustrated that you forgot the battery for the toys. You know, that's the other thing. You think that all these toys should come with the batteries, but they do not. And then at the last minute, you gotta rush out and stand in a long line. Or at least we did.

• 18:34Craig Robinson?

  We did, yeah. It was crazy. And the thing about Christmas back then is that if you happened to forget someone or forget something, you ended up in that long line.

• 18:51Michelle Obama?

  And if you wanted to avoid the long line, and that person just didn't get anything.

• 18:57Craig Robinson?

  But now, Amazon has everything for everyone on your list. Like my kids and my wife, who wait until the very last second to tell me what they actually want. My wife out of nowhere drops hints about the latest tablet. I'm standing there thinking, really, y'all? Now you tell me? And let's not forget, every year, it's the same story. We are approaching Christmas and suddenly, we forgot to get our neighbors a little gift. What do you get your mailman? Simple. An Amazon gift card. Amazon's got me covered. With their last-minute deals, I can still save big on toys, electronics, beauty for the women in our life, and all of that good stuff.

• 19:39Craig Robinson?

  I don't even have to break a sweat running around the mall. Gifts show up right on time, wrapped up, and ready to go under the tree. So this year, I'm not stressing. Amazon makes last-minute shopping feel like I planned it weeks ago. And that, my friends, is a holiday miracle.

• 19:59Michelle Obama?

  Amen.

• 19:59Craig Robinson?

  Shop gifts for everyone with Amazon Last Minute Deals.

• 20:10Michelle Obama?

  Well, you, as you would learn, you had a lot going on in that fabulous mind of yours. Were there any indications when you were that young that you... And I know bipolarism shows up later in life.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  The mania made me... I was... I became a leader.

• 20:27Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Captain of the cheerleading squad, president of my class. When I got to college, I didn't look at the cardboard. I didn't look at the cardboard to see if I had been cast.

• 20:40Michelle Obama?

  You knew you would be cast.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  I had been cast. You needed me. See, the arrogance, the omnipotence, the delusions of grandeur came with the mania.

• 20:51Michelle Obama?

  Yes, yeah.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  You're unstoppable. Bipolar disorder ain't no joke.

• 20:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  I would run down the streets of New York. Anybody that came to town to visit, I'd take them right down to the World Trade Center. And I had this one little spot where I would make them stand and look up. They were beautiful.

• 21:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  God, they were beautiful. But I would stand down there with my crazy self and say to them, "Behold, the only thing bigger than me in this city."

• 21:27Speaker 01

  But then, when I would be rageful

• 21:33Speaker 01

  and out of control,

• 21:37Speaker 01

  I wouldn't get the job because they would see.

• 21:39Michelle Obama?

  Mm-mm.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  She's talented, but... No, we can't put up with that.

• 21:44Michelle Obama?

  She's a bit much.

• 21:47Michelle Obama?

  This is a bit.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Slightly.

• 21:49Michelle Obama?

  Can you talk more about those, those times? Those, those, those hard times? Because there's mania, there's deep depression, and there's a whole lot in between there.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  The depression, you know, the sex addiction started

• 22:09Speaker 01

  in college.

• 22:11Michelle Obama?

  And do you think it was tied to the molestation?

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. You run around, once somebody touch you like that?

• 22:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  You either withdraw and start eating everything you can see?

• 22:22Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Or you, see, I had a friend and she became an introvert. I became an outvert.

• 22:28Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  That's why I was shocked that he touched me.

• 22:32Michelle Obama?

  Right. Because it's like, I'm not quiet.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm telling.

• 22:37Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  You fool.

• 22:38Michelle Obama?

  But he didn't care.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Girl, I, I confronted him.

• 22:42Michelle Obama?

  What did you say? Tell us, please.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Well, I, when I started talking about the molestation and therapy,

• 22:52Speaker 01

  it all came back.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  And because he was a man of God.

• 22:58Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  And we had been taught to revere him.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  And so many sick people out there saying, I got the power and only God can come through me.

• 23:11Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  And here, come and let me touch you.

• 23:14Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  So anyway, um...

• 23:20Michelle Obama?

  You confronted him?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Yes, I called him. I got drunk.

• 23:24Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  I haven't had it.

• 23:25Craig Robinson?

  Wait, you got drunk. How old were you when this confrontation happened?

• 23:29Speaker 01

  In my early thirties.

• 23:30Michelle Obama?

  This is later in life.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Later thirties. Oh, no, no, no. I didn't drink back then.

• 23:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, no, she wasn't drinking at that.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 23:37Michelle Obama?

  She lived with the...

• 23:38Craig Robinson?

  I'm still in shock.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  No, we were coming from church.

• 23:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  You know how choirs will...

• 23:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you do.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  ...admit to each other.

• 23:44Michelle Obama?

  You do everything right.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  And I got to ride with the pastor.

• 23:47Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Child. Anyway, I called him. There is a chapter in my book, my memoir, and it's titled,

• 24:00Speaker 01

  "It Ain't That Kind of Call, Motherfucker."

• 24:04Michelle Obama?

  He thought.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  I got drunk.

• 24:07Michelle Obama?

  Uh-huh.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Because it was hard to confront him.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  And he answered the phone, and I said, "It's Jennifer." And he said, "Oh, Jennifer."

• 24:19Michelle Obama?

  And you're like, "It ain't that kind of call."

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. "We're so proud you're on television." "Jennifer," I said, "it ain't that kind of call, motherfucker."

• 24:29Michelle Obama?

  Did you say that you ended that way?

• 24:31Speaker 01

  I sure did, just like that. And I asked him why he did that to me.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Girl. Because the question I asked him in the car before he pulled over and touched me, I said, "Pastor Hurd, do you think I can be a star?"

• 24:52Speaker 01

  In seven seconds, after he touched me,

• 25:00Speaker 01

  he took my entire life from me in seven seconds. He tried to kiss me, and he felt my breast. And I pushed him back. It was so... Oh, God, it was the worst.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  And he took God from me.

• 25:16Michelle Obama?

  Yes, he did.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  He took my mother from me, yes.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  And he took my career. In seven seconds. Oh, I got it back.

• 25:28Michelle Obama?

  Yes. But he tried to snatch it from you.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Yes, he did.

• 25:34Michelle Obama?

  And what did he say?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  And when I said to him in the confrontation, I said, why'd you do that? He said, well, I was just, you know, trying to, guy said, shut the fucker.

• 25:44Michelle Obama?

  He was just trying to what?

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Trying to prepare me for what, you know, being a star would involve. Oh, yes. Girl, I went, and I cussed that man, poor man. I cussed that man, I said, and if you hang up this phone, I will fly back to St. Louis and blow that fucking church up.

• 26:07Michelle Obama?

  And he's still the head of the church?

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Oh, no, he's dead now, poor bastard. He's good and dead.

• 26:12Michelle Obama?

  During the time, when you made the call, he was still?

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yes.

• 26:17Michelle Obama?

  So how did it feel for you to? Because that's one of the things that's...

• 26:21Speaker 01

  It felt good. It did feel good.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  But, you know, they take everything when they touch you.

• 26:28Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  I got over it because, you know, I had another incident where a guy came into my apartment in New York and put a knife to my throat, for God's sake.

• 26:39Michelle Obama?

  Just a break in?

• 26:41Speaker 01

  No, he came in, yeah, he saw I was in the, I was in the New York Post in a bikini. I was young, I was doing a show, I got great reviews, and he must have seen me in the paper, I never knew.

• 26:51Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  But he came into the, he said he had a package, and I had just ran a bath. And I used to put just two drops of peppermint oil in the hot water. Well, that day, my little puppy hit my arm and a whole lot of peppermint oil went into this hot water.

• 27:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  So when he came to the door and he, the peppermint oil, girl messed him up. Oh, Lord. He couldn't even, he was like, take your clothes off. Wait, girl, that's stupid. So, he was like, I was like, you came into the wrong apartment today. Craig, how can you believe it? Look, Craig. He said, "Look, great, look. Now, I'm all in dance class, me and Loretta Devine. Me and Loretta Devine were taking dance class early Ralph. All of us, you know, we were all in shape. We were skinny in our twenties, because you know, we all did Dreamgirls. But Jennifer Holliday got the part. And, um, hold on. So he's like, "Take your clothes off."

• 27:57Speaker 01

  And I'm standing there like, "What are we doing?" I wish I could say the word. You know what I want to say? I was like, "Uh huh." But yeah, it was horrible. And I ended up talking myself out of it. I told him that was medicine. I said, "I'm sick."

• 28:13Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Girl, it was a scene. It was the greatest performance of my life.

• 28:18Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  You have to read the book. The whole, the details are in the book. But I talked myself out of it. I told him I was sick. That that was medicine he was smelling.

• 28:28Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  I said, "Sophie..."

• 28:30Michelle Obama?

  Way to think on your feet.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Oh, honey.

• 28:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Like I said, it was the greatest performance of my life. And escorted him out.

• 28:38Michelle Obama?

  So I can thank you and be well.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I said, "I'll help you, Jane."

• 28:42Michelle Obama?

  Here's your knife.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Girl, here's your butter. And it was a, it was like a steak knife.

• 28:46Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  I was like, "Boy, you ain't gonna cut me today. And you ain't gonna rape me either."

• 28:51Michelle Obama?

  Well, and there, you know, to the extent that your, your mania helped you with that courage, that bravery.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  I was unafraid of him. I wasn't afraid of him. I wasn't afraid of New York City. I belonged there. The mania belonged in the city.

• 29:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  I would walk down those streets, girl, so fast. I'd have a coat slinging behind me. A diva. It was a mask.

• 29:23Michelle Obama?

  And you were in the perfect place to wear that mask. Because New York, you probably didn't even stand out.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Girl. People were crazy, girl. It was the eighties.

• 29:33Michelle Obama?

  It was the eighties.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  It was the eighties.

• 29:35Michelle Obama?

  Here you are, flying around and singing to the Empire State Building.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  You know, when I had a show, there was a place called Tickets. You go get your Broadway tickets for a discount. You remember? I used to go over there, all those, all those tourists would be in line waiting for their tickets. And I'd go down the line, I lived right up the street on 55th Street. I'd go down there and do my high kicks, up and down.

• 30:00Michelle Obama?

  I've seen those high kicks.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Michelle, I'd go, "Come see my show." "You don't wanna see that shit. You come see me. Do you know I was sold out?"

• 30:11Michelle Obama?

  They were like, "Yes."

• 30:12Speaker 01

  "We going to see her."

• 30:14Michelle Obama?

  "We'd like tickets to that."

• 30:15Speaker 01

  But I was, I was out of control.

• 30:19Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  But what could not be denied? What's the talent?

• 30:25Michelle Obama?

  Talent, yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Oh, girl.

• 30:27Michelle Obama?

  Well, because guess what? People wouldn't put up with it if you weren't. It's a lot.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  They say it was a lot. As it is right now, I don't know, my shrink is gonna, my shrink is gonna see this interview. She said...

• 30:39Michelle Obama?

  My poor brother, he's just like, "Oh my..."

• 30:42Speaker 01

  You poor thing. I'm sorry, pumpkin. I'm sorry, pumpkin.

• 30:45Craig Robinson?

  This is not what I see on TV.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  But baby, I'm telling you right now, I've got so many stories. And I want these, these young kids to go and take care of themselves. You go take care of yourself. Where's my close up? Right here? You go take care of yourself.

• 31:01Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  If something's wrong and you're depressed, come out of those dark rooms. You can do it.

• 31:06Michelle Obama?

  Can we talk about your, the beginning of your career? Because you mentioned Cheryl Lee Roff and Loretta Devine and Dreamgirls. Was that your first big?

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Well, I was hired.

• 31:24Craig Robinson?

  Quickly, right? Quickly. When you first got to New York, you got a job, right?

• 31:28Speaker 01

  I got my first Broadway show within 11 days of graduating from college.

• 31:31Michelle Obama?

  And you know what? We are not surprised. Because this person walks into New York and is like, "It is mine. All mine. Mine, mine, mine, mine, mine."

• 31:41Craig Robinson?

  And I think there's something to be said about, and, and with, you had to have some chutzpah.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  I had so much confidence. I had no fear in me. I went from Broadway show to Broadway show.

• 31:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  And then when I got to Hollywood, I'd had the breakdown because of the AIDS epidemic. And I didn't know who I was.

• 32:07Craig Robinson?

  Is that why you came to LA?

• 32:10Speaker 01

  For what reason?

• 32:11Craig Robinson?

  Because you didn't know who you were.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Nah, I came to L.A. to be a star.

• 32:17Michelle Obama?

  It's huge, me.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  I came about L.A. I came about know, I didn't know I didn't know who I was. Until that camera came close. See, I had been trained in the theater to hit the back row. And you can kind of fake your way through that. That was the diva. That was the mask. But when that camera comes into your face, you got to tell the truth.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  And I didn't quite know what the truth was. And I'd get in those auditions and go, listen, girl, they go, cut. Honey, you go, it had to be. Now, listen, girl.

• 32:56Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  And I didn't know, that comes from here.

• 33:01Michelle Obama?

  So you struggled.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Yes, I did, Michelle. Yes, I did. Yes, it was the first time because I had to find out who I was and how I could continue that passion. See, if I wasn't working. But here's what I did, and I say this in a very famous interview. I created my own jobs, darling. That's why this is a masterpiece. Because I wrote my own one moment shows. If I, the phone didn't ring, I created something. I was always on stage. Girl, Nina Simone, Lena Horne, the greats came to see me. I'm telling you, Ruby D, they were all there. Because my shows became underground. Everybody, it was a, I can't think of the word.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  It was almost, you knew it was something like a speakeasy.

• 33:52Michelle Obama?

  Yes, yes.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  You gotta go see Jennifer Lewis.

• 33:55Michelle Obama?

  And this was all in Hollywood.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  In, in, in L.A., yes.

• 33:58Michelle Obama?

  In L.A., yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  In L.A. before the TV shows. Like the people from Living, in Living Color, they came to see the shows.

• 34:07Michelle Obama?

  And saw you.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  They put some of my characters on in Living Color. So what was happening is the industry would come to these clubs to see me. This new girl. Yeah, it was the new girl in town. She's the new girl in town. And. And there was the sex addiction.

• 34:25Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Oh, the sex addiction. I had to have sex.

• 34:29Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Oh, God, Jesus. Right after the show, honey.

• 34:34Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Something had to top that electrifying standing ovation. See, I didn't get standing ovations. My standing ovations were electrifying. People would jump up and I'd be almost instantly so knowing that the depression that I had to drop from the high. See? Polar.

• 34:56Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 35:05Speaker 03

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• 36:38Craig Robinson?

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• 37:21Craig Robinson?

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• 38:05Craig Robinson?

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• 38:50Craig Robinson?

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• 39:31Craig Robinson?

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• 40:11Craig Robinson?

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• 40:55Michelle Obama?

  And it took you some time too, because once you started taking the medication, you had to find your balance.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Yes, when you get on the meds now, if you get on meds, I ain't pushing meds.

• 41:06Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  You find your story. It's what I did. When I finally agreed to do medication, because I thought it was gonna take my edge. I needed my edge. It was Jennifer Luns. Mania.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  When I took the meds, the first time, I got side effects, dry mouth. And my sexual desire went away. I wasn't having that shit.

• 41:34Michelle Obama?

  You're just like, we can't do this.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  That's the end of the meds. Yeah, we had to fix that. Yeah, we had to fix that.

• 41:42Michelle Obama?

  So did you find that the work led, help you in your, did you see the success? Did you see?

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Oh, girl, I started working.

• 41:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  I got Fresh Prince, I got this one, I got that one. As soon as I

• 42:00Speaker 01

  could just breathe. But it took a long time. It took a long time for me to get it. I remember the day I got it.

• 42:11Michelle Obama?

  Talk about that.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Well, Loretta Devine was doing a show down in La Jolla, I think. And I went down there. You know, that's my girlfriend. We've known each other since I was 19. And I was with a girlfriend who was a shrink.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  And that night at her party, I got drinking, those days of drinking. Got up on the table. Up on the table at her party.

• 42:39Michelle Obama?

  Doesn't surprise me, Jennifer. I mean, I'm just like, that's a Tuesday.

• 42:45Michelle Obama?

  You said that like, can you believe it?

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Wait a minute, I wanna say something to you before I finish this. Do you know how funny you are? Girl, you are right there with me. Poor Craig is like, I ain't saying.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  But you, you right there with me. I'm glad, good for you. I'm scared of you too. Michelle is going, "Why do you think you're late?"

• 43:11Speaker 01

  "Why do you think you slept with him?"

• 43:14Speaker 01

  But, uh, where am I? What story?

• 43:16Michelle Obama?

  Well, we're, uh...

• 43:17Craig Robinson?

  On the table.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Loretta, she goes on the table, you're on...

• 43:21Craig Robinson?

  I'm paying attention. She telling jokes, I'm paying attention.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  You're on top of the table, you lunatic.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Jesus. So, and I play that song and I'm like, and I call everybody, you know, cuss everybody out, but, but in a play way. But drunk.

• 43:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 43:40Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, sure.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  And naughty. It was, it was Loretta's night.

• 43:43Craig Robinson?

  Uh huh.

• 43:44Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  But my girlfriend, who was a shrink,

• 43:49Speaker 01

  hmm, the next morning at breakfast, she said, oof, I'll never forget it.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  She said, "Jennifer, what's wrong with you?"

• 44:04Speaker 01

  She said, "What's wrong with you?" I said, "What?"

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  She said, "That was Loretta's party."

• 44:18Speaker 01

  I said, "Loretta, Loretta wanted me to sing," and she said, "Jennifer, it was inappropriate, what you did." She said, "I don't think she appreciated it."

• 44:29Speaker 01

  See, it was that kind of thing.

• 44:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  I just didn't know, and then the medication had to calm me down.

• 44:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Now I just get on top of a trip.

• 44:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, now, now, now Jennifer is calm.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

• 44:46Craig Robinson?

  So, you, you talked about that you started getting Fresh Prince and then Living Color.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and Rock, and, oh, I just started going.

• 44:55Craig Robinson?

  And were you able to enjoy that?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:58Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  But I was also having sex in the dressing room.

• 45:01Craig Robinson?

  Can you talk about some of the fun times?

• 45:03Speaker 01

  The tension was still there.

• 45:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Until I, I woke up one day and, and I actually called my therapist. She was on a train. I'll never forget this moment. It was after I addressed my behavior at Loretta Devine's party.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  And I called her. And what, could I journal?

• 45:23Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  That's why the memoir is so good.

• 45:25Michelle Obama?

  Because you got it all down.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Yes, since I was in seventh grade. And guess why I journaled?

• 45:32Michelle Obama?

  Why?

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Because I knew I was gonna be a movie star one day. And I would need my book.

• 45:40Michelle Obama?

  Right, right.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  And you know what she said to me? She said, that's what saved your life.

• 45:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Because you were journaling.

• 45:45Michelle Obama?

  But I want to know, you know, you love sex, but you have never decided to settle down? Why? Why is that?

• 45:55Speaker 01

  I've been engaged four times.

• 45:57Michelle Obama?

  And not that that is tied together. That was a mess.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  No, I'm gonna tell you right now. I had the sex addiction in my twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, and early sixties.

• 46:08Michelle Obama?

  Until yesterday.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Oh, twenty minutes ago. You missed it. So anyway, listen. You gotta love me. Now.

• 46:18Craig Robinson?

  That's in the show.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:19Craig Robinson?

  That's good.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Honey, everything is in the show. Believe me.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Girl, I didn't know it was an addiction. I thought everybody was doing everything every night.

• 46:33Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  I didn't know. But after the molestation, yes. You run amok because you're looking for something that's not so ugly. But I didn't know where to look. So I looked everywhere.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Okay? And because of the mania, I wasn't afraid to bring a stranger to my apartment.

• 47:00Michelle Obama?

  And that's often part of it.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Do you understand? Coming from the street?

• 47:03Michelle Obama?

  That's often part of it.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  You know, the line, oh, I'll kick his ass if he.

• 47:10Michelle Obama?

  But why? You just never found the one?

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I was in love with Miguel.

• 47:16Michelle Obama?

  Okay. Was he the? Was he the Dominican?

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was the love of my life. He was the first one. I met him in college. He was a mathematician.

• 47:24Michelle Obama?

  Why didn't you all get married?

• 47:25Speaker 01

  He... I was too young. He asked me when I was like nineteen.

• 47:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Honey, I was like, baby.

• 47:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Mama's gonna be a star.

• 47:34Michelle Obama?

  Yes, I do.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  I don't want to get married. Have no kids.

• 47:37Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Because I wanted my mother to love me, Michelle.

• 47:42Michelle Obama?

  Well, let's talk about.

• 47:43Craig Robinson?

  Well, let's talk about the fall.

• 47:44Michelle Obama?

  Let's.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  The fall? Here it is in a nutshell.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  The itinerary on this vacation, Lori P. Talk had helped me write my second book, and she wouldn't let me pay her. I said, "Girl, then come on, go to Africa."

• 47:59Michelle Obama?

  Your dear friend Lori is here?

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Where is she? Come on in here, Lori, she's watching.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  I said, "Come on, go to Africa." I never travel with anybody. Lori wouldn't let me pay her. She said, "You put money in a friendship, the friendship's over." Like, "But you're old, I don't want your money." She's a white woman of leisure, but anyway. You gotta love me. I say that in the show too. And then we, it was safari.

• 48:30Michelle Obama?

  We've done that safari.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  In the Tassana, girl. You see the face of God.

• 48:35Michelle Obama?

  And doing it during the Great Migration, oh.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Well, I'm getting ready to tell you. I was in the middle of that migration.

• 48:43Michelle Obama?

  And that's the thing to point out, that being there at that time, the Serengeti is full of wildlife.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Millions, millions are there.

• 48:52Michelle Obama?

  Prey, lions, everything, all for they're there in the peak.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Leopards, gazelles, warthogs.

• 48:57Michelle Obama?

  There are times you can be in the Serengeti and it's empty. Right? The, the animals have moved on. So you had this incident.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, in the middle.

• 49:06Michelle Obama?

  And in these camps.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Of the migration.

• 49:08Michelle Obama?

  The animals are everywhere. And at nighttime is the time they're the most active. So anyway.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Yes, they're out of the heat of the sun. So the next stop was supposed to be the Seychelles Islands. But let's just say I never got to sell seashells by the seashore on the Seychelles.

• 49:31Michelle Obama?

  That's in there too.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  So we checked in, girl, to the, you know, the Four Seasons in the Serengeti. Hot mess, you know, money. Don't ask me for none. So anyway, I love that line. Okay, girl, let me calm down. You're making me laugh. So Lori checked out, went to her room. I ran out to the water hole to see the elephants. Oh, it was so majestic and prehistoric. You know, I'd been before. But you're different when you go back, you see.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  So the sun went down. I stayed and watched the sunset. And we all know that when the sun goes down in the Serengeti, ain't no streetlights. So my little young African butler escorted me to my room with a very large flashlight. You get it? Anyway. Oh, girl, I'm a mess in this job. Yeah. I said, and when he left, I undressed for bed.

• 50:31Michelle Obama?

  Well, good.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  And I sleep naked.

• 50:32Michelle Obama?

  At least you let him leave.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I let him go. You doing the whole show. I love you. I love you. So at least let him leave. And here I go after he left.

• 50:44Michelle Obama?

  All right.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Oh, he was a cutie patootie, but he was mad. All right. Never stopped you before. But anyway, you love that line. So I took off all my clothes. Oh, you know, you've imagined it. Where is that? Yeah. And I'm about to submerge my soft, silky, sexy skin onto the silk sheets. But then I see an infinity pool out on the deck. So I thought a little colored girl from Kenlock, Missouri, would go out and take in the fact that she had returned to the motherland. So I'm just walking on the deck. La di da na. It's pitch black out in the savanna.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  And a little light, little bitty light, that if there had been a sign, I would have seen it. But I'm like, la di da di da li da li da.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Ten feet down.

• 51:47Michelle Obama?

  Oh, totally unbraced, too, because that's like...

• 51:50Speaker 01

  But thank God, because had I known I was falling, I would have tightened and broke something.

• 51:55Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  The right buttocks took the impact.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  The shoulder hit a stone. But the head, the shoulder protected the head. Girl, how I didn't hit my head. It was boulders and stones.

• 52:15Craig Robinson?

  It had to be rocky, right?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Oh, and that grass that the cat stalked through, that ain't soft.

• 52:21Michelle Obama?

  No, it's not.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  That was all in the back. Lori had to put the...

• 52:24Craig Robinson?

  Oh, Lord.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  So I'm down there, and I'm like,

• 52:30Speaker 01

  "Shh, I fell." Pitch black.

• 52:35Michelle Obama?

  And you didn't lose consciousness, which was...

• 52:37Speaker 01

  I was in and out, in and out.

• 52:39Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  So, girl, let me read this thing to you. It's brilliant. Hold on, because here it is. Let me just read it.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  All right. It says, here it goes. "I fell 10 feet from an unsecured deck off my hotel room into a pit of wild animals." And no Anthony Anderson, I was not drunk. That's in the show. Is that good? That's so good. Isn't that good? Doctors Without Borders came to rescue me and air-vacked me from Tanzania to Nairobi, Kenya.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  I underwent a 12-hour surgery at Aga Khan University Hospital. Not Shaka Khan, but Aga Khan. So stupid. I had three blood transfusions, six nights in ICU, and after I cussed out everybody in English and Swahili, they couldn't wait to ship my ass back to the States.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Now, from the helicopter, now while I'm down on the ground...

• 53:46Michelle Obama?

  I mean, in one of your videos, there's a huge water buffalo roaming in the...

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Cape buffalo.

• 53:53Michelle Obama?

  Just feet away from where you fell.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  And there was a little, there's an antelope.

• 53:58Michelle Obama?

  And these buffalo are vicious.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Oh, girl.

• 54:00Michelle Obama?

  They are, you know, this isn't just, you know...

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I was down there.

• 54:05Michelle Obama?

  I mean, these are wild, very aggressive buffalo who will charge.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Oh, they will charge. Now, um...

• 54:13Michelle Obama?

  And you said you heard... A lion roar.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, the lion roar.

• 54:18Michelle Obama?

  So you're sitting there alone, waiting for help.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, in the dark. Uh, the hippopotamus comes over.

• 54:26Michelle Obama?

  Is this for real?

• 54:27Speaker 01

  No, it's not.

• 54:28Michelle Obama?

  Okay, I'm just checking. You know, I mean, they're really.

• 54:30Craig Robinson?

  My sister's getting in the way of the story here.

• 54:32Michelle Obama?

  I'm sorry, I just want to know.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  It's hysterical.

• 54:35Michelle Obama?

  Okay, all right.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  What I've done, guys, if I've taken the biggest tragedy of my life, and I'm gonna make you laugh.

• 54:50Craig Robinson?

  Craig Robinson here. And as the holiday season comes closer, it's time to plan our holiday travel. And you know, as our family gets older, it makes it harder for all of us to cram into one hotel room for an extended period of time. So we have six or seven adult-sized people traveling simultaneously now that the kids are getting older. So we need a little more space. We need a little more freedom. That's why booking a stay on Airbnb makes so much sense for our family. You know, imagine heading to South Carolina with friends for a cozy fall weekend, or taking the family to Orlando over the Thanksgiving break.

• 55:35Craig Robinson?

  Instead of being stuck in a hotel lobby or eating takeout food on the bed, which can be kind of fun, you've got a living room to gather in, a kitchen to cook these great holiday meals and make memories. You even could cook out outside, which I love doing in the fall weather. It makes the trip feel warmer, more personal, and way more memorable. It's those little things, more space, more privacy, and staying in the coolest parts of town that make an Airbnb trip better than a hotel. My kitchen has never quite felt completely put together, like it's always felt like something is missing.

• 56:17Craig Robinson?

  And then Kelly and I found these striped linen cafe curtains on Wayfair, and the effect has been perfect. Once we realized we wanted some curtains, it was just a matter of typing our ideal item into Wayfair's search bar. And of course, they have what we want plus 10 other options. Their inventory truly cannot be beat. I especially like being able to look through customer photos and reviews before I decide. That's what sealed the deal for us with our new curtains, as well as all of the other amazing pieces we have from Wayfair in our house right now. Wayfair has more than 20 million verified five-star reviews, so you can actually see how something looks and works in real people's homes.

• 57:01Craig Robinson?

  Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  But then I heard them, the animals.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Grazing and munching and crunching and, you know, and having sex.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Girl, I got a joke in this show about this.

• 57:45Michelle Obama?

  I was about to say they were doing it without me.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  You are good, but everything you say is in the show and I'm trying to be nice.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  And then I say, now I couldn't see the animals, but I know what having sex sounds like.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Girl.

• 58:09Michelle Obama?

  I feel like I'm in your brain now.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  I said that there were two, there were two little pink booty baby baboons that came, that swung out of the tree. They said, "If you're gonna fall this close to our tree, you need to be properly groomed."

• 58:30Michelle Obama?

  So, let's help you out.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  And then there's a little antelope

• 58:34Speaker 01

  in Tanzania. It's officially called a dick dick. D I K, D I K. Now, you can't make this up. What do you think I did with the dick dick? And I didn't have any clothes on? So, the dick dick was grazing.

• 58:49Michelle Obama?

  Craig is just like...

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Listen here, Craig. La, la, la, la, la. No, no, no. I was just... Look, it was animals.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  The dick dick was grazing nearby. And he mistook, you know, my private area for grass and began to graze. I grabbed him by the back of his neck.

• 59:09Michelle Obama?

  You didn't expect that, did you?

• 59:11Speaker 01

  Listen here. I grabbed him by the back of his...

• 59:13Michelle Obama?

  I'm enjoying the show.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  I grabbed the little dick dick by the back of his neck. I said, "Now, you listen to me, Mr. Dick Dick. Under any other circumstances, I would enjoy what you're doing." Is that good? You can't make that up. But anyway, Dr. Rocco, because I'm gonna tell him to watch this.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  When I got to Cedar Sinai here in Los Angeles, after they brought me home,

• 59:45Speaker 01

  the doctors there saw the x-rays. I fractured my acetabulum, by the way.

• 59:53Michelle Obama?

  And that's the...

• 59:54Speaker 01

  It is the... Here are the femur bones. And here's the hip bone. There's a socket that holds the femur in the hip bone. So, when my right buttocks hit, this is what happened.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Don't ever fracture your acetabulum. It was horrible. So when we got to Nairobi and he said you fractured your acetabulum. I said, I broke my head.

• 1:00:24Michelle Obama?

  It's like the last thing.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  And he says, we have to get you to the theater, mum. Mum. I said, the theater? Broadway, where? And he said, no.

• 1:00:35Michelle Obama?

  Not that theater.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  What we, the room we performed the surgeries in, Ms. Lewis, is called the theater. I said, well, then get me to the theater.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  Mess is all in the show. But they did, they did a 12-hour surgery.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  I didn't call my family, Michelle. What were they gonna do, fly down there?

• 1:00:58Michelle Obama?

  When did you tell them? When did they know?

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  I told them about three weeks after. I couldn't, you know?

• 1:01:07Michelle Obama?

  Well, you talked about that. Cause I shared that with Craig when I heard you say that you needed all of your energy.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  I needed all of me. When I came out of that first MRI, X-ray, whatever it was, and the gurney rounded a corner.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  I said to myself, you ain't telling nobody. You gonna need all of you.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  And didn't nobody push you, Ms. Lewis? You pushed yourself. And now you get up.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  And I didn't want none of y'all to know I had fallen.

• 1:01:51Michelle Obama?

  And no one did.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Until I was able to tell you how I got up. I had to wait a year and a half before I called Robin Roberts. I had to be able to tell y'all how I got up. Anybody can fall.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  You can fall out of love, fall out with your parents, fall on the ground. But how do you get up? How do we get up?

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  I couldn't separate my knees for four months. Talk about karma.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  I know you were coming in, girl. No, you were coming in. I couldn't walk for 13 months, Michelle. You see, I'm walking and I got the high kick back.

• 1:02:31Michelle Obama?

  Oh.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  You see that?

• 1:02:34Craig Robinson?

  There you go.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Where's that angle? I want a good angle.

• 1:02:36Michelle Obama?

  That's...

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  You see that? For a girl that could not separate her knees.

• 1:02:43Michelle Obama?

  She's back, yo.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  The bitch is back. That's right. No, and that's the... That might be the name of the show. But I'm very excited. I'm very happy. I'm very happy in my life because I didn't know how not to come back.

• 1:03:00Craig Robinson?

  We try to help our listeners with your stories and the stories that we have on here.

• 1:03:08Michelle Obama?

  And you've been doing that throughout this entire conversation.

• 1:03:11Craig Robinson?

  You have really bestowed on us a lot.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  You know, guys, I've had a lot of energy. I shouldn't have drank this coffee. My shrink's gonna kill me. But listen.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  When you look at death in the face,

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  if you come back,

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  you're different. Because you ain't scared no more.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  I wasn't scared, that scared before, but now I'm unstoppable.

• 1:03:45Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  But with love.

• 1:03:48Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  And with grace and gratitude. I filled every... I took an imaginary water hose and filled every room in my house with liquid gratitude. And swam in it.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Throughout that physical therapy.

• 1:04:08Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  You gotta hold on to life. You gotta know something's coming. Be ready.

• 1:04:18Michelle Obama?

  Well, we have a listener question. And I think it, it sort of speaks to, we have a young woman who is asking for advice. And-

• 1:04:29Craig Robinson?

  Lynn from Illinois.

• 1:04:31Michelle Obama?

  Let's hear what-

• 1:04:32Craig Robinson?

  And let's hear the question from Lynn.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  What Lynn want? Hey Lynn, girl.

• 1:04:37Speaker 04

  At 23, I sometimes feel like I climb forward only to fall back to rock bottom, carrying burdens and responsibilities heavier than most of my age because of where I come from. How can high achieving young people from disadvantaged backgrounds keep finding their strength and hope to chase their dreams when life feels overwhelming and the systems feel like barriers?

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  Lynn,

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  my love for people is tough love

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  as it is for myself.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  You might have heard at the beginning of this conversation,

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  you heard me say, "There's no time for despair."

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Nobody stopped me or kept me from all the horrors

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  that I experienced in life.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  But I say to you, have yours.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Have them.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Because they will make you stronger.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  They will give you courage. Life is hard, baby. That's what life is. It's lesson after lesson after lesson. And if you hold on,

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  I promise you,

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  I give you my word, and that's a word, darling.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  It's right around the corner.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  It's right around the corner. You gotta get up.

• 1:06:32Michelle Obama?

  Well, and it starts there. Like you said, it's the belief in herself.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:40Michelle Obama?

  You know, and understanding that

• 1:06:44Michelle Obama?

  she's gonna run into people who don't believe, who don't have her best interests at heart. But in the end, all of that is noise if she can hold on to the light that she knows she has. I mean, just like Jennifer said, she was born knowing that she had a light, a gift. I believe that all of us are born knowing that.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  You've got that light.

• 1:07:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it's there. No one-

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  It's there. Everybody was given, we're all God's babies, whatever that means to you.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  You keep that light on. Nobody's better or worse than you. The day I became a true star was the day I realized everybody was one.

• 1:07:32Michelle Obama?

  And you also talked about the importance of having a dream.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  Dream, a passion.

• 1:07:40Michelle Obama?

  A passion.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  And people say, how do you find your passion? What makes you smile?

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  What in a day, if you're walking around, not laugh, laughing and smiling is-

• 1:07:56Michelle Obama?

  Two different things.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  You can't fake a, you can't fake a smile.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  You can fake some laughter, but not as much. People who go, uh-uh, you can see that. You know they, you know they full of shit.

• 1:08:10Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 1:08:14Michelle Obama?

  That nice nasty smile.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  What made you smile yesterday? But more important, what's making you smile at this moment?

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Hmm. That's your passion.

• 1:08:33Michelle Obama?

  And that's part of the journaling process, too.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:08:36Michelle Obama?

  Because if you're writing down your experiences, you know, and if you're paying attention, because writing it down means you're paying attention.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and the other thing, one other thing I say is,

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  and especially in these days, right now, what we're living in.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  You have only one weapon. There's one, one weapon.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  Know thyself.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  What are you gonna do when they come to the door? And it's coming to the door.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  What are you gonna do? You gonna run? There's nowhere to run.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  I tried to run and I got money to run, but you meet yourself. You will meet yourself when you get there. So there's no running. So go in here.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Go in here and, and, and straighten your spine. You sit up. And when you walk in a room, you hold your head up. Yes. Sit up. Stand up. Get up.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  You can, you can be, you can have despair for two minutes.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  And get up. Go on, Craig. Craig, Craig, you talk too much.

• 1:09:52Craig Robinson?

  I am, I just wanna thank you for the wisdom.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  I didn't get to say nothing.

• 1:09:59Craig Robinson?

  No, that's okay. Hey, listen, I get to say plenty.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  I ain't coming back here no more.

• 1:10:04Craig Robinson?

  No, I, you, you are welcome back here all the time. And she is laughing because she talks too much.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  I love it. But what is she talk? You know what? And that's another thing about you. And you, I've watched the show.

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  Everything y'all say.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  Ain't no frivolity going on. Ain't no like, uh, some dumb shit. It's like, they said something. That's a word. All right, I'll tune in next time.

• 1:10:36Craig Robinson?

  Thank you.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  I mean it.

• 1:10:37Craig Robinson?

  That's really nice of you.

• 1:10:38Michelle Obama?

  This has been fun.

• 1:10:41Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 1:10:42Michelle Obama?

  It's been heartbreaking. It has been true. And...

• 1:10:49Craig Robinson?

  It's been entertaining.

• 1:10:51Michelle Obama?

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, we are.

• 1:10:53Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 1:10:53Michelle Obama?

  We are, we're part of the audience.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  My Drake is gonna say, "Did you take your medication, you lunatic?" That was Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Why didn't you take some extra meds?

• 1:11:07Michelle Obama?

  But this is what I am always about. You know, it's, you know, it's like, and I said at the outset, we've met on several occasions, but this is the beginning of knowing. Okay, I do still wanna hear, but before we, before we go, I wanna hear my song.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Which one? Okay, here it is. It's so good. It's so good. This is the best one. Here it is. And it goes a little bit like this. Now, don't clap because I'll go off rhythm.

• 1:11:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, please.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  I've written some...

• 1:11:34Michelle Obama?

  White people.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Cause you go...

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Baby, when the white people chime in on the rhythm. But I want you to know something now. I love y'all.

• 1:11:45Craig Robinson?

  Cut this part out. We wanna keep our white audience.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  Listen, I love my white people, I do. But y'all just, when we start doing things, just sit still.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  Da na na na na.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  Uh, da na na na na.

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Now, there's Miss Diane Carroll, Lena Horne, and Eartha Kitt. They stayed on top for ages, but their looks never quit. Now, when white women get older, their skin gets creased and line. But because of my race, look at my face. Salted to baby's behind because black don't crack.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  I tell you, black don't crack.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Now, Cardi B and Beyonce certainly know how to make a buck, but being sued for fights or on Grammy nights, they don't need no nipping tuck. Da na na na na.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Now Harriet's got her railroad. Sojourna's got her truth. So Kamala Harris and Jasmine Crockett could be a choice at the voting booth. Oprah Winfrey's got her billions. And Michelle's got Obama. And I still look good out in Hollywood playing everybody's mama. I tell you, I ain't gon' rest. So white girls, get your facelifts to your foreheads on your back. Cause I'll be having fun out in the sun. Cause baby, black don't act.

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  And then Shaka Khan.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  That's the orchestra going.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  Gotta love it.

• 1:13:45Michelle Obama?

  All right, we that way.

• 1:13:51Michelle Obama?

  Jennifer Lewis.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  Hot mess.

• 1:13:53Michelle Obama?

  We are stay tuned, stay tuned for that one woman show.

• 1:13:58Craig Robinson?

  I will be right there.

• 1:13:59Michelle Obama?

  Thank you.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  Oh, I hope so.

• 1:14:00Michelle Obama?

  Thank you.

• 1:14:00Craig Robinson?

  I will be right there.

• 1:14:01Michelle Obama?

  Love you. Thank you.

• 1:14:03Craig Robinson?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:14:04Michelle Obama?

  For being here, for sharing. And thank you for doing the work. All right.

• 1:14:09Speaker 01

  And Craig, don't talk so much next time. I didn't enjoy this because I didn't get a word in.

• 1:14:37Speaker 05

  I'm Emma Greed, host of Aspire with Emma Greed, the podcast where I sit down with people who don't just dream big, they build big. If you love Michelle and Craig on IMO, just wait until you hear their episode on my show. Michelle told me about the moment at 26 when she lost her father and her best friend in the same year. It made her walk away from her corporate law career to figure out her why. That's the kind of conversation you get on Aspire. We talk about mindset, ambition, and doing the work that actually moves the needle. So if you're ready to raise your standards and take charge of the life you're building, Aspire is where you start. Follow and listen to Aspire with me, Emma Greed, available wherever you get your podcasts.