Acknowledge the Challenge with Kylie Kelce

This week, Not Gonna Lie podcast host, field hockey coach, and mom of four Kylie Kelce joins Michelle and Craig on IMO! They touch on Kylie’s Philadelphia roots, her certified tall girl status, and the example she aims to set for her children and the athletes she coaches. Plus, Kylie spills how she met her husband. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The idea of carrying the weight of being an example to my athletes now. I always talk about how when we had our first, it was October 2nd. We were in field hockey season. A week after I had her, I strapped her to the front of me and I went to practice. I wanted the girls to see like, life doesn't stop because you have kids. And as women, like, we have to acknowledge that challenge and then continue on. And as athletes, we've been training for this.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  Hi, Craig.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  How are you?

• 0:45Speaker 02

  I'm doing great.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Good.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  Uh, a little rainy. It's been, we're in DC.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  We are, we are.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  Now, and unusually rainy.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  It's not cold.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  To you, because you live in the deep tundra.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Is this cold for you?

• 0:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it's interesting because I'm, you know, I-

• 1:03Speaker 01

  You're from Chicago.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  I'm from Chicago, but, and, and I used to tease people from DC about what they thought cold was.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  But I'm getting that way. I mean, it feels chilly. And it's like in the high 60s, low 70s. And it's like, ooh, there's chill in the air.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  If I, if we weren't here, I would probably have shorts on.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Because that's how it is in cold weather climates.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  You keep the shorts until it's about 65.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  Well, you know, like, you go through a stretch of zero degrees and then 50 feels like summer. I mean, literally, people in Chicago go to the beach. If it's sunny and 55, folks are at the beach.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Blankets and picnics and everything.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Maybe not even a blanket. It's like, ooh, it's hot. It's hot.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  All right.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  But we've got a-

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Fun show.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Very fun show.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm, you know, I'm under a lot of pressure.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  But tell, tell me.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Because this is Kelly's second favorite podcast.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Thanks for saying that. We, we still beat-

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, we still rate, we still rate.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  We've got Kylie Kelce with us today. And Craig, why don't you do the introduction so that we can get into it?

• 2:18Speaker 01

  I will. Well, Kylie Kelce is a former collegiate field hockey player, advocate for the Eagles Autism Foundation, wife of retired NFL center Jason Kelsey, and mom of four girls. A proud Philly suburb native, she now coaches, yay, coach, high school field hockey and hosts the popular podcast, Not Gonna Lie. Without further ado. You like that pause?

• 2:49Speaker 02

  No, I did not, not at all.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  It was for effect.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  At all.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Coach Kylie Kelce.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Welcome. So nice to meet you.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Welcome to IMO.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Thank you so much. This is so exciting.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Well, we spent time together, but this is the first time we met, I get to touch you.

• 3:16Speaker 00

  And literally face to face.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Face to face.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  You, when you did her show, you did it on Zoom.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was Zoom. And why, why did we do Zoom? What was going on? Were you pregnant then and I was somewhere else or?

• 3:29Speaker 00

  I think so. Yes, I think I was very pregnant then.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  If I remember correctly, yes.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  And, and why wasn't I invited?

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Because we didn't want you there.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  It was, it was a small oversight and we're gonna correct that very soon. You don't even know what you just signed yourself up for.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah. And then now, you, you better go.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Oh, believe me. Believe me, I'm telling, my wife loves you and your show.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  It's that Northeast connection. That's what that is.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  No, no, there's, everybody loves you.

• 4:02Speaker 00

  Yes, but no.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  She is.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  We find each other.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  She do, and she went to school at Juniata.

• 4:08Speaker 00

  Okay, right. Right down the street. I love it.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  And she was a college softball player.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  So there's a lot of connection there. And she's a mother of-

• 4:16Speaker 00

  Got yourself a good one.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Four.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Lot, a lot of connection there.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Well, I want our audience to understand your, um, your ascent and all that you are and do. I mean, can you talk a bit about your, like, you, it's like the number one, one of the top podcasts out, right? Am I correct?

• 4:42Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  No, I always downplay it.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  I never, I never, I never look at our insights. I never look at our, our views, our listens.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Good, good.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  I just, I mean, I am really happy to be able to have a platform because I always say that if you're gonna talk about me, you better talk about something good. And so it was a long time of people creating a narrative about myself or our family. And I'm a, I'm a Philly girl. If you just ask me, I'll tell you. So it became this opportunity to speak for myself and to really go straight to the source. So it was a really great opportunity to sort of silence all of the noise. And with that, we've been able to talk to incredible people, have amazing conversations.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  I've gotten to learn so much. We've gotten to have awesome opportunities, like being courtside at Unrivaled was incredible. Like those, things like that where I'm like, is this real life? But it's, it's given us also the opportunity to talk about infertility, miscarriage, motherhood, things that people nowadays are starting to talk about significantly more. It's sort of leveling the playing field. It's not just always, it doesn't always have to be this aesthetic. It's picture perfect. So I'm, I'm really fortunate to get to have those conversations, to get to talk to incredible people and sort of dive into the details.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  And so people know that the noise comes, came from your relationship to your husband?

• 6:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Is that where?

• 6:29Speaker 00

  That's correct.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Is that where the noise was coming from?

• 6:32Speaker 00

  That's where the noise was coming. I mean, we, uh, my husband did, uh, I shouldn't say my husband. I guess we all did. We all participated in a documentary about him retiring from the NFL. I think that's kind of where it shifted. Now, my husband was in the public eye because he was one of the best centers in the NFL.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  You wanna stop and say that again?

• 6:51Speaker 00

  I'm biased, um, but stats kind of show it, so I think I can say it. But he sort of got to go through the fine parts, the sort of more intimate parts of retiring from the NFL and what that meant. And he had watched so many teammates do it and he decided that he wanted to sort of track his journey. So for two years, we had, uh, the most incredible film crew with us that sort of got into our house and saw behind the scenes. And, uh, After That came out. That was sort of, I think, the moment where people were significantly more interested. Now, other things have happened since then, um, within the family.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  And, um, because of the people that we've gotten to welcome in, we, we welcome it. But it's just, it, it makes more noise.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  And, and was that, so was that a fast yes for you? When they were like, oh, you should have your own show. You're so-

• 7:51Speaker 00

  No.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  So tell me about that decision process.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  So I, I love, as, as much as people on the internet love to point out to me, I've said it so many times at this point, I love to be behind the scenes. I love to, like, that fiddly fig, I would be behind it, in it, cuddled up, just back there. Because it's, it's, I've, I always resort back to, I've been so tall my whole life that everybody's always staring at me. It's always been, uh, look at your feet, figure out if you're wearing heels, look back up at your head, look back at your feet. And so I've always enjoyed, like, not having eyes on me. It was, it was a hard choice for me.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  And being a, an af, growing up as an athlete didn't curtail any of that? Because I've always thought, you know, I, I can't remember ever thinking, oh, man, now I'm too tall. Because it's different for guys, obviously.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Yes, it is.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Right, it's different. But I know, I've been around her long enough to know that people were like, ooh, you're tall.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  It's more uncomfortable. But I've found that in your generation, there's so many more athletes and models and people who are just, they're more tall people.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Yes. It's given me a, it's, my athletics has given me an appreciation for my body as a whole. And so I had that appreciation for my height in sports. When you get out of sports and you're off a field and you're not with your teammates and it's not eyes on your team, that was like safe space. You get into like a room where it's just you and a bunch of people who are 5'5" and lower and you're like, why can't everyone see my face above this? What the hell?

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Just trying to.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  You can just see it.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  We talked about it. It's like the tall girl. There's so many adjustments we make to try to not stand out in that way. You know, I mean, even in conversations with your crew. You're up here, your ears are nowhere near where the conversation is happening. So how are you?

• 9:58Speaker 01

  You can still hear.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  You'd be surprised.

• 10:01Speaker 02

  No.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  You'd be surprised.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  I had never heard that. Your ears are above everybody else's.

• 10:08Speaker 00

  I mean. There's been a number of times where I've felt left out of a conversation. I will say my assistant coach for field hockey and I will regularly, I will do one of these. Down to her ear.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 10:22Speaker 00

  Because there is no discreet conversation between an almost six foot tall woman and someone who's five, five or shorter.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  That's right. Well, growing up. So it's your mom, your dad, your sister?

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Just this unit of four.

• 10:35Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  What were you like as a little Kylie?

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Oh, my parents say that I was easy. I don't remember it, but they say I was easy.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Are you?

• 10:47Speaker 00

  I'm younger.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  You're younger.

• 10:48Speaker 00

  Yes. My sister and I, my mom always called us night and day. We were polar opposites from the look. Like my sister has very dark hair, fair skin, freckles, blue eyes. I was green eyes, tan, blonde. And so we were polar opposites, but we played the same sport. Like she was a field hockey keeper. So she is, she's two inches shorter than me, though. I say that.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Strong. She will tell you she's five, 10, she's five, nine.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  And that's what happens too.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  You know, it's like the five eighters, five seveners, they push it up. And it's like, it's just not true.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  It's not.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  That's not how tall you are. I'm sorry. And it's a female athletes and all men.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  All men are six feet. And it's like, dude, you're not.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  I'm looking over your head.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  I'm 5'11", straight up.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  You know, I've never been taller than 5'11", so if you're not taller than me, you're not six feet.

• 11:47Speaker 00

  It's really, you'd think that it's easy.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  But you know, guys, guys, guys don't let, they don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  No.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  So how did, what happened that your dad had two field hockey players?

• 12:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  So he tried with your oldest sister too, to get her to play basketball, I would imagine.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  It was a full press, full court press, if you will.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  That was it. See, he went the wrong, he should have just acted like he didn't want you to play basketball.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Ah, come on, dad.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  We would play for fun, but it just didn't stick. I think it's the area. I always tell people, like, if you look at our, our US field hockey team roster, you will see there's at any given point, maybe 15 girls on the roster. Out of those 15, you're talking like eight or nine of them are from Pennsylvania. We're just in a really great hotbed for field hockey.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  Like, field hockey wasn't a thing in Chicago. I didn't know it was a sport until I went to Princeton.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  We went to college.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  College. And I was like, what's this? Field hockey? And all, all these people have played this thing. I've never heard of it.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  So we didn't have it at all.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, my husband had never seen it before. He had never watched field hockey, which was, he was very confused about the fact that he grew up playing ice hockey. And every time I would refer to it as hockey, he's like, you know, that's not hockey. I played hockey. And I'm like, you better watch your mouth.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, who is committed to helping people move forward and live fully. So Meech, I want to get a little personal today and ask you a question. When did you know you were ready to settle down?

• 13:33Speaker 02

  To settle down, like, being married or, you know, like?

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Like, sort of in life, like you went from being sort of the, not that you were ever a wild child, but, you know, when you started thinking more like, all right, I'm an adult, I need to settle down.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  I, I, I think it was when I met and married Barack. You know, I mean, I, I think I felt like a full adult when, when I was married for some reason, you know? And he was, he was a full grown up.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Mature.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  You know, he was mature, you know? He talked about future plans, you know? It was that time in life that I really started thinking broadly about who I wanted to be. I mean, although I was a practicing lawyer, I don't think I had thought about

• 14:26Speaker 02

  how I wanted to be in the world. And I think when I started thinking about how I wanted to be in the world, that led to broader questions of thinking about kids and family and work and balance and all of that stuff. And I don't think that happened until I got married.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  That's interesting. That's interesting. For me, the real turning point for settling down was changing my mindset. And once I had kids, I felt like my focus shifted from me to them. You know, I had people counting on me now. What about you?

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure. By the time the, the girls showed up. You know, you, you strap that baby into the car seat after you get home from the hospital and you think, oh my God, I have to have my stuff together. So for sure.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, there's always that moment where you think, wait, am I actually doing this? Especially with buying your first home. It's exciting, but also a little terrifying in its own way. I remember closing day, showing up with the certified check in hand, knowing I had just wiped out my entire bank account. And it was shocking watching my nest egg disappear in a single day after all that time it took to build it up. That was a real wake up call. Did you feel the same sort of push and pull mix of excitement and doubt when you bought your first place?

• 15:56Speaker 02

  You know, I was, Barack and I, we were excited. I mean, by then, we, we knew we had the resources we needed. We had made the right decision. So it was all excitement, no doubt.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And that's where having the right information and support can make the leap feel a little less overwhelming. Even if you need to pivot along the way, you can feel better knowing you made the best call you could with the information you had in front of you. Progressive's Open the House initiative helps make homeownership more accessible through practical guidance, educational resources, and connections to trusted community organizations. In fact, since 2024, Progressive has committed more than $16 million toward making the dream of homeownership more achievable. And if you're ready to take the leap,

• 16:52Speaker 01

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• 17:16Speaker 02

  Who are you more like, your mom or your dad? What are your parents like? What are, what are their personality types?

• 17:23Speaker 00

  It's funny, I think my sister and I split the difference a little bit. It's funny because when it's your own household, I think it's, it's interesting. But like, it's easier for me to look at Jason and Travis and sort of pick which traits each of them have gotten from which parent. When you're so close to it that it's your own household, you're like, wow, maybe I am like my mom. It's like these epiphanies you have along the life and like.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  And the older you get, the more you start. Yeah, you'd start sounding just like your mother. Like, oh my God. I'd still do that. My mom passed, but I find myself saying things and grabbing my mom. Like, that was mom.

• 18:04Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  She was in here.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  What was discipline like in your house growing up? Or was there even need for discipline?

• 18:11Speaker 00

  With me, no. I was a rule follower. I don't know. I always, I ask my parents now, what did you do to get me? It wasn't, I wouldn't even say that it was a fear. It was just, I don't know if it was like a certain level of respect, but I just did not want to disappoint my parents, disappoint the adults in my life that I had respect for. And really like disappointing anyone in general. I was always a rule follower and still to this day I am. My husband laughs at me if some, if there's like a stanchion, I'm like, we can't go there.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  That's me. See, you and I, that's where, we have that in common.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  My husband's like, just step over it. I'm like, I can't step over it. There's a rope.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  There's a rope. It's a rope.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  It's literally saying, don't go there.

• 18:58Speaker 02

  It's there for a reason. And I don't want the person who put it there to get in trouble.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  That's what I, that is, that's the part that I'm like, someone did their job here.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  And I don't want to negate that job by stepping over that rope. But with me, it would, I don't, I, there was very little need for discipline because I just, I didn't push the boundaries. I also would watch my sister and how my parents would go toe, like her and my dad would go toe to toe because they were just a couple of hot heads. And so I, I would watch the two of them and I'd be like, hmm, okay, don't do that. Don't do that. Got it. Dad didn't like that. Not gonna say that. So yeah, it was, it was, I think, very little need for it. But it was there.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  You know, like, it's like, it wasn't always used, but I knew that the, I don't want to say threats, but like the threats of discipline were real, that my parents were going to follow through. If there was going to be a consequence, they were going to make sure there was a consequence. So if it was taking my phone, if it was, I mean, like the basic grounded, you're not allowed to go out sort of thing, that.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  There was no backsliding on it.

• 20:12Speaker 00

  Never.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Now that you're a mom, now you have four.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  We're outnumbered.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Yes. Like, whoa, you kept doing it, huh?

• 20:21Speaker 00

  I know.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  It was like, whoa, Kylie.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  I know.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Another one?

• 20:25Speaker 00

  They just kept coming.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  It's like there you all are playing Yahtzee. Snigga, right? You're just gonna keep going until you get one that's.

• 20:35Speaker 00

  You know?

• 20:38Speaker 00

  I will, what I will tell you is, is that for the longest time, we were like, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna have kids. We started having kids. We had our second girl and we were like, I don't think we're gonna have any boys. By the second girl, we were like, mm, seems like we're not getting one of those. And honestly, after the third girl, I was like, it would be so inconvenient at this point. It would be so inconvenient to have to learn something else. I do, I've had four girls. I've never been peed on. I'm calling that a win. I mean, while I'm changing a diaper.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  You catch strays every so, exactly. You catch a stray every so often. But yeah, I, I mean, parenting four girls is, I mean, we're in the thick of it. We have six, she'll be in, a week and a half, she'll be seven.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Which means she'll be eighty-one.

• 21:34Speaker 00

  She, that's what, I mean, she truly believes, she's turning seven to go to high school. That's what she believes.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  But yeah, we, it's fun. It's, discipline with them is, is interesting. It's, and that's where I'm trying to pull from my parents. I'm trying to pull the consistency. If I say that there is going to be a consequence, then there has to be a consequence. Because they smell fear and they will absolutely wear you down. And there's more of them.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:06Speaker 00

  There's more of them.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  But I gotta, I gotta think that you being a coach, though, helps you stick to your guns more because what I, what I, I learned that when, when you're coaching, that's all it is. You just have to stick to your guns longer than, than, because you can always outlast a seventeen-year-old or a nineteen-year-old. If you just outlast them, you just can't give in.

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Does that, has that helped you with your kids or the other way around?

• 22:40Speaker 00

  It's helped me with that aspect, sort of like holding out. It's also helped me with, there's four of them. I mean, we basically have a team. So like at any given point, I can just like rally them together, do a quick head count and move on. And so it, it's worked out in a bunch of ways. I, coaching has given me so much. I always attribute it to the fact that I had some of the most incredible coaches

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 23:09Speaker 00

  in my life, but specifically my college field hockey coaches. My head coach, Jackie Neary, had put together the most incredible group of women that were like the best example. They were mothers, they were grandmothers, they had graduate, like they had masters degrees. They had, we had one who was a GA who was in graduate school at the time. We had all of these incredible examples as like women in front of us that were also cheering us on on the sideline of the field and had personal relationships with us. It was such a great example of you don't have to sacrifice a family because she raised her four kids on the sideline of the field.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  And also, they are an example to us.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:59Speaker 00

  So the idea of carrying the weight of being an example to my athletes now, I always talk about how when we had our first, it was October 2nd. We were in field hockey season. A week after I had her, I strapped her to the front of me and I went to practice. I wanted the girls to see like, life doesn't stop because you have kids. And as women, like we have to acknowledge that challenge and then continue on. And as athletes, we've been training for this.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And I want to, I want to, want you to dig in more on that, but I want to back up because there was something in the research we were, I was doing. And tell me I didn't read this wrong. Did you coach before you went to college?

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Yes, I did.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  No one ever does that. I was telling, I was telling all, I was telling everybody, I was like, this is the first I've ever heard of anybody coming out of high school and getting a coaching job before they were a college player.

• 25:02Speaker 00

  That's the love of the sport. I can't let it go.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  How did that happen? Can you, can you, describe that for us?

• 25:08Speaker 00

  So I played field hockey year-round from seventh grade until I graduated from high school. So in the fall, I was playing for my school. In the winter, I was playing indoor. Spring, I was playing spring league. Summer, I was doing summer camps. I had field hockey all year round and I loved it. I loved it so much. And knowing what it did for me, knowing how much I enjoyed the sport, having a fall without field hockey because I wasn't going to school for field hockey right away. I was going to community college.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  So that I could figure out what I wanted to do, sort of get my feet set,

• 25:44Speaker 00

  get a little financial backing by working during that time and then go to a four-year school. And so in that time, I thought to myself, a fall without field hockey? That's not fall.

• 25:57Speaker 00

  How else? Exactly. I will not survive. How else can I fill my time during the fall? Still go to field hockey practice, but be on the other side of it. So I started with a seventh grade team, which was eye-opening. Because it was their first experience with field hockey. I mean, the first day, we're making sure that everyone has shin guards on.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:18Speaker 00

  And talking about how to grip the stick. And it had been a while since I started in second grade with field hockey, talking about how to grip a stick. And so it was kind of a new challenge to have to explain something that was just ingrained in, in me to someone else. And that was fun. And so then the next fall, I applied for the JV position at the high school because I was like.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  So that first, were you paid or were you?

• 26:44Speaker 00

  Yes. Oh, I was, I was eighteen years old out there coaching the seventh grade team, like getting on the bus with them.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  I was respons, I mean, I was dealing with like parents who like.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  That was gonna be my next thing. Let's talk about, how, how did you handle that as, at such a young age? Because parents, let me tell you folks out here, coaching now, parents are different now.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  Yes, they are.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  You almost have to coach the parents.

• 27:12Speaker 00

  Yes, that's what the parent meetings were.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  The kids.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  I had, again, I always, I always resort back to, I had incredible female mentorship. So I had coaches that I had in middle school that were still working in the middle school, but not coaching at the time, who were there as resources to me. So I, I always felt like, and I, I think it set me up for life in recognizing that like I can be that resource for another young woman. But that's the only way I got through it. And it was also, it was the middle school I went to, it was the school district I grew up in. I had resources. I had a foundation. Yes. And I think they knew that I was responsible enough to take on the position.

• 27:57Speaker 00

  When I went to college to play, I, my teammates, who were my peers, a little bit younger than me, but my peers would call me mom. So like I've, I think I've always had this vibe of like,

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Mom energy.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  We got this.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Now staying close, I mean, you've been close to home your whole life.

• 28:15Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Did you make that decision? I know, I can tell by your, the way you laid out your experience that you were thinking about finances, you know? And kids like us, our parents don't have money. And so for, for us, college and how it's paid for and not being burdens on our families becomes paramount. But did you ever think about just having an adventure away from the neighborhood that you grew up in? Did you think about a gap year or think about, you know, living somewhere else?

• 28:52Speaker 00

  No.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  No. I, I, we grew up in the house that my mom was basically raised in. It was my great-grandmother's house.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  We grew up in our great-aunt's house that my, you were saying.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's comforting. It's comforting to know that you're where other people have been. There's a comfort level for my mom in that house. But yeah, I mean, the, the finances were a big thing. I knew that financially, I was responsible for my schooling for the most part. My parents were willing to help as much as they could. But like I said, you have a principal secretary and you need an electrician. And, and they really made us understand like the value of a dollar. And that it required hard work to be able to create opportunities for yourself. So that was a really important thing that I felt the need to focus on. And to me, travel was for field hockey.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  So going away, living somewhere else, it felt too removed. I always loved the idea of coming back. I mean, I joke around that when I start my car, it calls my mom. It's like the craziest phenomenon. But I, I would feel so weird if I wasn't able to like go home to my parents or to be at the very least in the same time zone.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, we do, talk more and more about that, that you've sort of become a society where it's almost expected that you move away from your family, your nuclear, your, your extended family for a job or adventure, you know, the world's gotten bigger. But, you know, we're also learning that you, you can't raise your family in a vacuum. It, it's harder to raise four girls without any kind of family support around. I, can you talk about that a little bit more?

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Because I, I think it's almost like we gotta give permission to people to be okay staying put.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  I, I just think like that I, getting to stay put has given me the opportunity to give back to the community that raised me. So it is really important to me that my girls get to experience things that we get to sort of drive past this shop and I say, oh, that was where mom's first job was. And you get those moments of not only nostalgia, but you're connected to your community on a deeper level. And when you have that connection, I think you feel a better responsibility, a responsibility to give back. And then that is the example that you get to set for your kids. And don't we want that from our kids to feel empowered to be able to prioritize giving back?

• 31:47Speaker 00

  But yeah, I think that there definitely is the, this idea of like, you haven't lived if you haven't lived away from your family.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  We couldn't do it without my parents. My parents live 15 minutes from us. And they have helped us in every way imaginable.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  My husband and I have very busy schedules. We don't necessarily want a live-in nanny or someone who's going to be raising our kids void of us. That feels weird. So we do a lot with my parents. Every chance we get, we do things with Jason's parents. It's, we find that those are the values that we were raised with, that we want our kids to have. And not just because we tell them that, but because we live it. Now granted, we do have a nanny. I always give a shout out because we couldn't do it without her. But we have her during regular work hours and really nothing outside of that, so.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  Well, and there's also something about your mom and dad kind of there when the nanny's there.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  Until you get to know the nanny.

• 32:50Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Right?

• 32:51Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  I mean, it's just like.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  We're in a unique situation as well. We weren't going to your typical online databases to find a random person from our neighborhood.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 33:11Speaker 01

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• 33:55Speaker 01

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• 34:40Speaker 01

  to empower you in your housing journey.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Speaking of online databases.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  My wife told me that you met your husband on.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  I knew that's where you're going.

• 34:59Speaker 00

  Yes, on Tinder.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Tinder.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  Did you decide?

• 35:03Speaker 00

  We swiped right.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Because you were in college at the time.

• 35:06Speaker 00

  I was.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Please explain.

• 35:09Speaker 00

  We were, my friends and I would sit around and we would just swipe. And so we would be sitting, maybe anywhere from three to seven of us in the same living room of the apartment on campus. And we would be swiping, oh, did you get this person? Oh, what'd you say to that person? So when you got a match, you could start messaging. And so then we would start messaging similar things. So we were doing it in a very joking way, where we were sort of like messing with the people.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  It was a team sport.

• 35:36Speaker 00

  It was a team sport, you get it? So it was, it was more for fun. I was not on there seriously at all.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  You weren't serious, okay.

• 35:45Speaker 00

  And that's the funniest part. Because look at us, four kids later.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  So what caused you to swipe right?

• 35:54Speaker 00

  He looked big. Obviously.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  It's important.

• 35:57Speaker 00

  It is. It's, there is something about being as tall as I am my whole life. Whenever, like, I saw him standing next to other people in his profile and I was like, oh, large.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  What height did he put on his profile?

• 36:12Speaker 00

  His, well, he didn't put any height on there. He had a.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  You don't put your height on there?

• 36:17Speaker 00

  Oh, gosh.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 36:18Speaker 00

  Back then, you could if you wanted to. But his bio was something about having long discussions about your emotions and having kids. So basically, he was being sarcastic.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  Exactly. And I thought it was hilarious. I was like, oh, you're, I love a little sarcasm. So I leaned in and I hit him with a pick-up line. And he said, not that one. So I hit him with another one. And it ended up, he thought that was funny enough. And then we just, we had good banter for a while. And eventually, he was like, come meet us out at this bar. And by that point, we had decided he looked familiar. We Googled with all the information we had. And we saw his roster photo. And we thought, it's a catfish. Someone went online and got these pictures. And so one of my very good friends, who's sort of that friend that you call when you're like, hey, do you think we do this?

• 37:18Speaker 00

  And she's like, yeah, of course we do this. This would be great for the story.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  So you were gonna, you were gonna catch the catfish and catfish him.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  So Amber said.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  If it's him, funny. If it's not him, even funnier. We should go find out.

• 37:36Speaker 00

  So we went and it was him. It was definitely him. And he.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  What was your first reaction when you saw that it was him?

• 37:44Speaker 00

  We thought it was very funny.

• 37:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, there he is. And he was full lumberjack at that point. He had like a very large beard, a man bun. He was wearing a flannel. I was like, gosh, okay, we get it.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 37:59Speaker 00

  Tone it down.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  We get it, you are man. But.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  Where's your axe?

• 38:05Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Paul Bunyan.

• 38:08Speaker 00

  But we walked in there and he was clearly inebriated. He had come from the Eagles Christmas party.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  So he had been with his teammates, being jolly. And he was quite intoxicated. So he says that he remembers me walking in the door and tasting the Shirley Temple that I ordered. And that's it. That's all he remembers.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Did he blackout?

• 38:36Speaker 00

  For sure. No, no, 100%. He fell asleep on the table.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 38:40Speaker 00

  About 45 minutes after we got there.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  That's what I heard.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  Did you talk at all?

• 38:44Speaker 00

  We did.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Was there a conversation?

• 38:46Speaker 00

  I don't think he remembers. It was a lot of like joking around.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  So wait, what did you? What did you, how did you feel about that? Did, was that like, oh, forget it, I'm, I'm out?

• 38:57Speaker 00

  Well, we, Amber and I thought it was hilarious.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  You thought it was hilarious that he was.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  We thought it was funny.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Because you were in college.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  Yes. We were in college. It was funny.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 39:06Speaker 00

  And also, he fell asleep 45 minutes after we got there. So it gave us a really easy out. Like, we, we were in there for maybe an hour. We got the heck out. It was great. And afterwards, I was just like, well, that was just, that's gonna be a really funny story down the road. Thinking like, that's that.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  Were there other players there? Was he on his own?

• 39:26Speaker 00

  Oh, no, he was there with a bunch of players, friends that he's still friends with to this day. Connor Barwin was there the night we met, a teammate of Jason's for a long time, both at Cincinnati and in Philadelphia. He and his wife were there. And so it was, but it was very much like, we sat down next to each other. He was doing a lot of like blank stare.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  As, as drunk people would do.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  As drunk people usually do. There was, there was a glassiness to his eyes.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  It's like, he's not here.

• 39:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  Not here with us.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  But he, he put out some zingers. And I was like, oh, he's, he is as funny as he seemed when we were messaging. And after we left, we sort of like, well, that was a ridiculous thing that we just did and also hilarious. And the next day, he messaged me and was like, I need to make that up to you. That was bad. That was really bad. And I shouldn't have ruined that.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Good.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  And the next time we met up, different bar, significantly less alcohol. And we talked for three hours as if no one else was there. The yelling talking that you do in a loud bar.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Stop!

• 40:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  And, and with a drunk person.

• 40:37Speaker 00

  Yes. The good news is, he was very close to my height. So we were not yelling up and down, you know? So, yeah, he, we talked for three hours. And after that, we just kept messaging. And then it became this sort of, we hung out once a week for a while and then.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Where would you hang out?

• 40:56Speaker 00

  We would go, well, our first, our first date was the Mutter Museum in Philadelphia. It is a museum of.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  It's like, okay.

• 41:04Speaker 00

  A museum of medical oddities.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Okay, you two are weird.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, he said he had never been.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  How does that even come up?

• 41:13Speaker 00

  I'd love to tell you, but I can't remember. And honestly, I think I blocked it out. But we went and it's like a bunch of like things in jars, like formaldehyde, and there's like skeletal remains. And it's a very interesting museum. I, I think it's fascinating. But the fact that he was like into it and willing to go was great. And then we would often just go out to get a bite to eat. He never cooked, he doesn't cook. So he, we would go, he lived in an old city in Philadelphia, which had great walking to different restaurants of pretty much any cuisine you could think. So we would basically, I'd go, I'd park, we'd get out, we'd start walking and we'd run into a restaurant.

• 41:58Speaker 00

  We'd have a meal and then that would be it. But after, I would say probably six weeks of seeing each other once a week, then it was, are we allowed to hang out twice in one week? This is getting too serious? And then it transitioned to back-to-back days, which was like, I still remember being like, but I just saw him yesterday.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  Oh, is that a problem? Are we getting in too deep?

• 42:21Speaker 02

  Am I being too needy?

• 42:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. But yeah, it, it ended up, it progressed fairly quickly. I think we just really enjoyed spending time with each other.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  What was your?

• 42:35Speaker 02

  As a tall woman, what were some of your insecurities about dating and experiences with men that, if this question makes sense?

• 42:48Speaker 00

  It does.

• 42:51Speaker 00

  I always felt a little guilty because I would see these tall women being with guys that were shorter than them. And I would always think to myself, wouldn't be me.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  For some reason, I always felt bad about it. I-

• 43:11Speaker 01

  You felt bad about thinking that?

• 43:13Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Yes, right. I got you.

• 43:14Speaker 00

  Because, of course, I have met some lovely, short men, short kings, if you will.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  Short kings, yes. Yes, short kings.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  But it was never, I never had this sort of like attraction or interest in that way.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Did you date a lot in college?

• 43:32Speaker 00

  Not really.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, because it's hard to find.

• 43:35Speaker 00

  It is hard to find, yes.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  And it's just, you know, I was, I was having fun. Like, I was with, I, I had like a couple boyfriends along the way, but like, nothing that was-

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, never, so you had never been in love before, or had you?

• 43:53Speaker 00

  Uh, no. I think, I think like that young, you do like the young thing where you're like, oh, I'm so in love. And then you meet the person you're supposed to marry and you're like, whoa.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Was I wrong?

• 44:03Speaker 00

  What was I doing?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  And at what point did, was Jason, you were like, okay, Jason, I think this is, you're the guy. Was it a slow transition or was there's a sharp right turn?

• 44:15Speaker 00

  I think there was a slow transition where one day it sort of hit me in the face where I thought to myself, oh, I would be devastated if you weren't in my life anymore. That was the moment where I was like, oh, I actually don't want to do life without you. Like, I want to experience life with you.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  What experience gave you that feeling, or was it just a general feeling?

• 44:38Speaker 00

  It was just a general feeling. It was, it was the way that he interacted with, like, watching him interact with other people. The things that he spoke about that were important to him, the way he spoke about other people. I mean, he still is very much that way. He prioritizes respect and making sure that other people feel respected. And it was very comforting to see someone who shared similar beliefs and morals and ethics. And, and then on top of that, we, very early on, got into very deep, deep conversations about our families, about what we wanted in life, what we expected for ourselves and, and what we expected for our partners.

• 45:18Speaker 00

  And I think that it became clear that we had very similar ideas about the way we wanted our lives to go. It, it wasn't this, to be-

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 45:31Speaker 00

  It was not this, but it has transformed.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  That was-

• 45:34Speaker 02

  The life that you all have now.

• 45:36Speaker 00

  Yes, what we discussed is not this, but I truly like, every single day, I'm like, there is not another person.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  It's like, I, I never wanted this. I was like, that wasn't-

• 45:48Speaker 00

  They dragged us into this kicking and screaming.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  That wasn't the plan. I mean, I lived, liked living down the street from my mother.

• 45:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  And my brother, you know? And, and it was never the thought of, oh, of this. It was just kind of like, are you sure, you really sure you want to help people like this? Can't you teach or something?

• 46:12Speaker 00

  Give back in another way.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, but there's so many ways to be helpful.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  And there's, there's so many people out there who are looking for partners and are having a tough time looking for partners.

• 46:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  And this is, Mies, you can chime in on this too, since this is your show.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Two.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Two, but were there any-

• 46:32Speaker 02

  This is what it's like having your brother right here all the time.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Were, were there any, I don't want to call them deal breakers because if it was a deal breaker, you guys wouldn't have gotten together. But were there any negative things that you had to sort of overcome in, in your getting to know each other? Because I think people who are trying to get into relationships now, everything, they think everything's perfect. And it's not, I'm here to tell you. And I, I've messed up and there are things, you know, I always tell the story about Kelly and I having a list of things that we said, let's talk about this and make sure we are heading in the right direction. And there were a couple of things that we didn't see eye to eye on.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  Was there anything like that with you guys where you didn't see eye to eye and you were like, hmm, but I still love this guy?

• 47:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, gallery there over there.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  I think honestly, the, the thing that comes to mind is that I always used to explain us meeting as we met at the right time. Because he had the opportunity to come into the league, to have a little fun being a football player and getting to sort of, like, bring that into discussion when he was courting a young woman.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:50Speaker 00

  That sort of thing. And so, but like, I was off living my life as well and, and dating people or going out. And, and so, I truly believe we met at the right time. We met when we were both ready to sort of exhale and have a better understanding of where life was headed.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  And- What's the age difference between you two?

• 48:18Speaker 00

  Five years. So I'll always be-

• 48:21Speaker 02

  Young.

• 48:22Speaker 00

  Little spring chicken.

• 48:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, but that, to me, that was really important. And like I said, when we met, he was inebriated. He was like out having fun with his teammates and they would go down to South Philly and they would be jumping on the back of the bull, the mechanical bull in, in Xfinity Live. And it, it was all of these things where I was like, I'm so glad that you went and did that. Like, the stories are hilarious.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  Right, but-

• 48:53Speaker 00

  But we weren't meant to meet then. And so, we met when we were supposed to meet because he was ready to sort of stop jumping on the back of the mechanical bull. And it, it felt better. So he, I mean, I used to joke around, but I was dead serious. He used to send me a selfie when he would go out and we were just dating. And if his hair was down, I knew that I would say, okay, great, talk to you tomorrow.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Like, I don't want to, we're not talking now.

• 49:21Speaker 00

  He's not going to remember the conversation. I mean, he was having a great time. And now granted, again, he got it out of his, like, as a, I couldn't tell you the last time, I mean, he's involved in a beer brand. He's, he's part owner in a beer brand. Couldn't tell you the last time he cracked a beer at home. So like, it's just like, he still has that fun spirit and he still will indulge. But like, that was something that in, when we first met, I was like, oh, you're having fun, fun?

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  You're having fun.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  I honestly, I loved it. Like, it spoke to his spirit, it spoke to his like fun-loving personality. And of course, had it been a problem, like, my dad comes from a world of addiction. Both of his parents were alcoholics. They had, they both passed away early because of ailments due to that addiction.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  So I was like, hyper aware of that. Had it been a problem, I would have addressed it because I loved him, but it wasn't. But I really believe it's because we met at the right time. Like, he was just, he was having a good time.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  So you, your dad, you know, instilled you with a sense of self-confidence and self-worth. He was used to being in a house full of women. It seems like Jason, you know, a house full of-

• 50:38Speaker 00

  Boys.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Boys, it's just boys.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  What have been some of the challenges of being married to a man who has had no experience with girls?

• 50:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. His mom warned me.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 50:56Speaker 00

  Poor Donna, poor Donna.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  Ooh, she's, she's so sweet.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  So sweet. And truly, I think, one of the strongest women I know for making it out of there alive.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  She's like, I'm here.

• 51:12Speaker 00

  There's stories that she has told.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  I mean, they sound like little monsters.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  The boys, like, putting holes in the floor, driving the car through the garage door.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Stuff girls don't do.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  The knives, the knives in the front lawn. What do you, what? My girls have not done that.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  My girls actually have no interest in the knife drawer.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:31Speaker 00

  So I don't know what was happening. But Donna, she, she did give me like a little like, yup. And I, I was prepared because I knew, I mean, I knew what I was getting. I, I feel like when we were dating, we knew each other deeply because we had so many truly like deep knowing conversations. And it, I, I think there are moments where it's like, boys, boys. But he is such a learner. He's always trying to learn, always, no matter what. He always wants to have both sides of the argument. He wants to know it in and out.

• 52:13Speaker 00

  He wants to be able to make the, the most educated decision and opinion on any given topic.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  That's you too.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  That's neat.

• 52:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, we match up.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Sounds like you.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  But he, he, in that, he has learned. So he is always learning on how to best parent. And I think he's done a really great job of not focusing on the fact that he is a girl dad and focusing more on the fact that he has four children that he wants to love and care for and lift up and give the confidence to. And then there's always that awareness of like, they're girls and I have to make sure they're strong and they're ready for the world. And, but he, he very much like, I feel like he saw an area where he didn't have a whole bunch of experience or knowledge. And then he was like, I know how to master this.

• 53:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  And he's doing just that. It's, it's so much fun to watch. It's like, it's, it's like watching your best friend like step into the role that they were meant to be.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Well, and he also seems like he has a thicker skin for chaos as the rule follower.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  You know, and the coach.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  You know, and just listening to how he talks about your, your daughters and parenting. You know, he kind of like loves that sass. He loves, so if you've got one that's kind of like got a little mouth and it's like,

• 53:38Speaker 00

  We do.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  He, it seems like he embraces that.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  Oh, he does.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  That maybe the non-rule followers that you will clearly have because you married him.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  And they will have some of that in him. It seems like he's ready to take that on.

• 53:54Speaker 00

  For sure. I, I jokingly say all the time that watching him and our oldest Wyatt go toe to toe is like watching him argue with himself. It's delightful.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Is, is, is she the one who's closest to him, personality wise?

• 54:10Speaker 00

  They are two peas in a pod.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:12Speaker 00

  They are, it's almost as if we cloned him and then gave her long hair. It's, she is, I mean, down to the eyelashes. Like, I'm always like, oh, you're so lucky you got dad's eyelashes. And she's like, I don't know what that means. Just know that mom's really serious about it and Ellie's gonna, and Ellie's gonna curse me one day. It's fine. But yeah, our oldest, she's, she's bullheaded. She is opinionated whether she's right or wrong. According to her, she is right. And watching Jason try to navigate such a strong personality and her, and her argument

• 54:55Speaker 00

  style is like watching him argue with himself. And it's funny. It's funny when I don't have, when I just get to sit back and be like, hmm, tough one, huh?

• 55:06Speaker 02

  It's like, it's a mirror.

• 55:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yes.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Were, were you guys together during his career? Were you ever a wag?

• 55:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  I don't picture you as a wag.

• 55:31Speaker 00

  I was, I was not what you.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  You were a bad wag?

• 55:34Speaker 00

  I was, I was a terrible wag. Oh my gosh, I was so bad.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  You were like naughty wag.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  I was. I, um, I, we were together for nine years of his career. So we were dating.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  Sorry, I probably should have done that.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  No, that's okay. Sometimes it feels like I blinked and it was, it was done.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  I don't just, I just don't see you as an NFL wife. And that's because I'm making assumptions about NFL.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, be careful.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  I'm sorry. Sorry, ladies. I've never met, I haven't met many, so I don't know.

• 56:08Speaker 00

  There is a, there is a culture of making it into this sort of parade.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  That's what I've seen on TV.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 56:23Speaker 00

  And it has, it has skewed the idea of what it means to be there to support your significant other or spouse. And I always felt like the term wag itself reduced the women to being defined by the role that their husband held. And that bothered me because what happens when he's done?

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:49Speaker 00

  What?

• 56:50Speaker 02

  Who are we?

• 56:51Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Then you're a flag, a former wife and girlfriend.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  Exactly. But then like, what, what do you guys talk about? Cause like, I know what it looked like in our house. Jason would come home, I'd say, how was work? He'd recap maybe one or two things, but it's not like we're sitting at the dinner table talking X's and O's. So what do you talk, what do you talk, what do you talk about when he gets home? What do you talk about? I always, I always said, I wanted to conduct our lives as if my husband was holding any other job, right? An accountant, a construction worker, anything. Where you, they come home, you ask how the day was. You help them in any way you can to sort of manage the expectations of that job, the stresses, the physical. But outside of that, like, that's what we could do because one day it was going to be over.

• 57:41Speaker 00

  And then were we going to completely readjust our lives? And again, I just think it, it took away from the women and what they were doing. And you have, I mean, I was fortunate on the Eagles. We had lawyers, nurses, educators. We had these women who were seriously accomplished in their own right. Incredible women, giving back to their community, working in difficult jobs and difficult fields. And I'm like, don't reduce yourself to, to get in line with him.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:16Speaker 00

  You have your own stuff going on. And so I was always really excited about the women that we had with the Eagles that I was fortunate enough to be with there. And just never really wanted them to be diminished.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it, it doesn't help that reality TV has sort of focused on anything but those women.

• 58:40Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  You know, without insulting anybody else. It's sort of elevated, you know, probably not even the, the largest percentage of who those women are.

• 58:49Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  The wag becomes this caricature of, of, of a woman married to a man with an important job.

• 58:59Speaker 00

  Well, the, the interesting part about that is, is that it then puts the focus on these women and some of them who are, they do have the time or they have the interest in signing up for those opportunities. Then it doesn't even focus on the parts that people would probably actually be interested in.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Interesting, yeah.

• 59:19Speaker 00

  I mean, Brittany Mahomes is a great example of what she's done for women's sports and women's soccer, specifically in the Kansas City area, is so impressive.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:28Speaker 00

  And so like, again, just like reducing things that women have going on is, I find it underwhelming. I would far rather hear about the stories of how they're impacting their community, what jobs they hold, what they focused on, what, what their interests were personally. But I, I mean, I get it. I, I was never a tailgater either. I just like the whole thing. I'm just like, oh, good.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  It's just like, mm, I'll be there at the game or maybe not.

• 59:59Speaker 00

  Literally, slightly after kickoff.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  But speaking of doing things that have an impact, can you talk a little bit about the work you're doing with the Eagles Foundation for Autism and how you got interested in that?

• 1:00:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, I am, I'm so lucky that the stars aligned on that. Jeffrey Lurie, the owner of the Eagles, he has a brother with autism. And so he was sort of reimagining the philanthropic effort of the Philadelphia Eagles 10 years ago now and trying to figure out how to leave a legacy, not only with the city of Philadelphia, but just as wide of an impact as he could make. And he chose something that he had a personal connection to and felt passionate about. And I think that that always is the best start because then you find other people who align with you. You find other people who feel that same passion or that same connection.

• 1:01:00Speaker 00

  And then they sort of get on, get in, right? And they, and they, and they join the crusade and it's exciting and people feel that enthusiasm. And that's exactly what's happened with the Eagles Autism Foundation. So they have an outstanding executive director there, Ryan Hammond, who is one of my closest friends, who has absolutely put Jeffrey's vision into place. Every single dollar raised by the Eagles Autism Foundation is donated directly back to the autism community through programs and research. And then research that they are funding is chosen through a very selective process. So you know that every dollar donated is getting put back in a meaningful way.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  How do you balance? You know, I know you get this question a lot, but I mean, I just can't help but hearing what you've got going on.

• 1:01:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  You got a hit podcast, you've got four girls, you're still coaching.

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  Yes. I have to get back for practices after.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  Are you kidding me?

• 1:02:03Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  Did you drive or take the train?

• 1:02:05Speaker 00

  We drove.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, because somebody said, yeah, Kylie drove, drove up herself in a Jeep.

• 1:02:10Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  And then we were like, did she drive?

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  I only drove for the last half hour because it was a lot of stop and start. And I was like, I think I'm getting carsick. Let's switch.

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  But we were like three hours in at that point, so.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Oh my god. So how do you, how do you balance it all? And like, what's, do you feel famous?

• 1:02:34Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:02:36Speaker 00

  Not even a little bit.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:38Speaker 00

  I.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  Even with Not Gonna Lie, doesn't make you feel famous?

• 1:02:41Speaker 00

  No. I, I just always have these moments of, this is crazy. Like those, like, wow, this is, and I used to, I used to talk about it by saying, I, places Kylie has no business being. And I said it in a very joking way of like, yes, of course, I'm here for a reason. But also, can you believe I'm here? It's one of those where you're like, have you seen what I'm doing?

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  I still do that.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  It's, I think that it's a very grounding practice.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Speaker 00

  And I'm going to keep it up because I don't think I will ever come to a point of famous. That doesn't, it doesn't register with me.

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  Do people recognize you? Do they stop you?

• 1:03:23Speaker 00

  Um, in places that I'm expected to be. So at an Eagles game, at the stadium for a concert sometimes, um, sometimes randomly in the grocery store. Um, but everyone who stops me, it's always for a very specific reason. We still live in the community that I grew up in. So sometimes it's, oh ma, I know you, the girl you played college field. And so sometimes it's that. Um, but a lot of times it's, thank you so much for the work you do for the autism community. And like, what better way to spark up a conversation with someone? Um, so I feel really fortunate that I get to have this platform.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  I don't necessarily, necessarily know that I would call it fame. But I really appreciate having the platform solely because if we need to talk about things, let's talk about things that are important and meaningful.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  Well, we, we try to offer some advice to our listeners and we have a.

• 1:04:28Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Listener question, and today it's from Joe, and I think he's from California. And Itzy, you're gonna be reading it today?

• 1:04:36Speaker 03

  This is Joe, who's 28 in Los Angeles. Hi, Mrs. Obama and Craig. Has there been a moment where taking a chance felt terrifying, but ended up changing the trajectory of your life? How did you know it was worth the risk?

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  You wanna go first or you want some time? If you, if you, if you want, need some time, I'm the expert in this one.

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  Okay, you tell me.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Well, I obviously left corporate America to go into coaching. And, um, and I will tell you, at the time,

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  it felt like the right thing to do. And, and it's interesting, you talked about when you met Jason, it was, you met him at the right time. And timing is so important because I wanted to go into coaching when I got done playing. But I listened to the, I listened, didn't listen to myself, I listened to other people. And you got this Princeton degree and you gotta go do other things. And I went to work and, um, and life,

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  life happens and I got the opportunity to go coach and I felt like it was the right thing to do. And once again, everybody was shocked and trying to convince me not to do it. Um, and then you and I talked about, about it and, um, and it,

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  listen, Joe, take the pivot, make the pivot,

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  and grab what you wanna do. Cause you're not gonna, we don't have much time. And I, I sound like I'm an old man because I am an old man. You don't have much time and I was afforded an opportunity to do something that was transformational, not only for me, but for the student athletes I got to coach. And I never had that feeling before I started coaching. And, um, and I almost didn't do it because it wasn't the right time or it wasn't the, uh, right money or it wasn't the right stature and.

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  Did you feel, but you said you weren't scared?

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  I wasn't scared because my dads had always said, if you find something that you love doing, you will never work a day in your life. And, um, and I knew I was gonna love doing that because I was coaching on the side a little bit. So it wasn't sort of a, a, you know, complete clean break. But, um, but I wasn't doing it for a living. And, uh, I remember the partners at my firm were like, are you, how much money are you gonna be making as an assistant coach? And, and it didn't even matter. It didn't even matter. Um, but it is so important

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  for all of us, even if you don't get an opportunity to do the thing that you love as a, as a vocation, you should at least try it so you know what you're missing.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Because I cannot tell you, um, outside of sitting here next to my sister, having fun, coaching was the, was the best vocation I've got to do. And I've gotten to do a lot of cool things.

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, when I faced a scary situation, and I, there've been a lot of them, things that have come my way that I've been like, oh my God, I can't do that. Or why, you know, leaving corporate law and leaving a big salary when you, when I still had a bunch of, uh, uh, college debt, college and law school debt and working for the city or working with a nonprofit and doing something that wasn't lucrative with that kind of debt, that was scary, you know? Saying yes to my husband's run to the White House, running a nonprofit organization when I was like 28 years old. Um, all those things were, were scary.

• 1:08:47Speaker 02

  Um, but I've learned over time to, that I need to ask myself, well, what am I actually afraid of? You know, I, I would, I, I'd learn to analyze my fear first before, without just succumbing to it. You know, because fear, you know, there may be a good reason to be, to, to listen to the fear and take a step back. Um, but if, but if it's only about your comfort or something that you can handle, um, uh, or just not wanting to fail or, you know, something that isn't life threatening, you should note that. You should note that in your mind and, and then analyze what it is

• 1:09:32Speaker 02

  you're, you're able to kind of handle. Uh, cause a lot of us, many of us were able to handle a lot more stress and uncertainty than we think. We do it without it being obvious. Um, but I think a lot of times we let fear stop us from doing things that are really important and can be a point of growth. So I would say, figure out what is making you hesitant first and figure out whether that's a real fear that, that, that you need to address. And then if it isn't, if it's just something in the back of your mind, then go for it.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  What about you?

• 1:10:16Speaker 00

  I, I think, I, I think that in my choices and in my adult life, I've had to sort of decide whether or not, do I feed that thought? Do I feed that fear?

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:28Speaker 00

  Is there a reason that it's there? Is there something that's telling me that that's a bad idea? Um, I, my, whenever I hear something that was an experience that you stepped into, that you had fear into, I always go back to when I clicked the car seat in, when we were taking our first home and I turned around and the nurses were gone. And I was like, oh no, it's just me and her?

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  You want me to take care of it?

• 1:10:55Speaker 00

  Panic. Sure panic. That's always, that's always.

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  Panic and sadness too. Cause I felt bad for this beautiful baby. Cause I like, I loved you and you have me?

• 1:11:06Speaker 00

  I'm so inexperienced and you don't even know. Um, yeah, that was definitely, uh, but, but again, that moment of like, that to me is like healthy fear.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:18Speaker 00

  Because that fear fuels you. You want to learn, you wanna do better. You wanna make sure that you come and show up for that little human being as best as you can. Um, when it came to starting the podcast, I had a similar feeling of the fear of the unknown, what's about to happen. And then you sort of figure out what you can stand firm in, right? So I knew that I had a communications degree. I knew that I had a deep understanding of radio and podcasting. I knew that I understood the marketing that goes into the backside of those types of things. So even though I didn't know how it was going to land, I knew that I could firmly stand in my education, how I was trained.

• 1:11:57Speaker 00

  And at the very least, I could provide a quality product for the amount of time that sponsors would show up.

• 1:12:07Speaker 00

  But those, those are the types of things that like, you can't feed that fear of the unknown. I took the moment to say like, I am trained in this. And even if it's not something that I've worked in since I got my degree, I will find a way to dig those memories out, so out of the, the depths of my brain. Um, and figure it out. And, um, I think that, I think that that's, that's something that I, I found a lot of peace in and helped me again, stand firm in that.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  And we talk about failure a lot. Um, you know, I've gotten to the point now where you try so many things. That means you're, you have also failed at some things. And you realize that there is, you know, that failure is, it's okay. You know, that a lot of times you're afraid of failing. Um, and what I've learned over time is that you have to get used to that too.

• 1:13:04Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  You wanna build a muscle for failing so that that's not the reason you don't try.

• 1:13:09Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  This was so fun.

• 1:13:11Speaker 00

  This was so much fun. Thank you.

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  Drive back home to coach.

• 1:13:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  Like in the Jeep.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  Here it comes.

• 1:13:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  No, it's, it's, it's amazing to be with you. I'm glad we got this time together.

• 1:13:28Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  We're neighbors. Philly, DC, same place.

• 1:13:31Speaker 00

  You know, that's how I talk up Philly. I'm like, it's so close to DC and you can go DC or New York.

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  It's right there.

• 1:13:38Speaker 00

  Or Central, it's fine.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  It's one stop on the train.

• 1:13:41Speaker 00

  And we're friendly.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  Well, you went a little too far on that one, Kylie.

• 1:13:46Speaker 00

  Right, leave it believable. Got it.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Gotta keep it, keep it real.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Thanks for coming to IMO. Hopefully our IMO listeners who don't know, uh, I'm not gonna lie, fall in love with you the way I have and we have. You're, you're, you're a good kid.

• 1:14:05Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  Thanks again to our friends at Progressive Insurance for sponsoring this episode. For more information, visit progressive.com slash open the house.

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