Get a Hobby, Be Happy with Jessica Williams

On this episode of IMO, actress, host, and podcast veteran Jessica Williams joins the show! She discusses what it was like to have Jon Stewart as a mentor during her early tenure at The Daily Show, how she has had to approach her acting career as a tall Black woman in Hollywood, and the surprising crafting projects she’s picked up in her down time. Plus, Jessica shares her favorite stories from behind the scenes of Shrinking. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm doing a rom com right now that I think you'll be really excited about. It's like me and a shorter, a guy who's shorter than me.

• 0:05Michelle Obama?

  I love that.

• 0:06Speaker 00

  And I'm really excited. And I was like, trying to tell him, I was like, look at Tom and Zendaya. And he's like, no, I'm not gonna Google that. But I know for me, it's my inspo is Tom and Zendaya. And I love looking at, but I just, I love looking at them walking around in London with their little dog. And he's a little short king and she's a tall queen and it just looks so right. It just looks so right. And it's like, why Hollywood? Why?

• 0:28Michelle Obama?

  We can do this. We can do this.

• 0:37Michelle Obama?

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

• 0:42Craig Robinson?

  Howdy.

• 0:43Michelle Obama?

  Craig Robinson.

• 0:45Craig Robinson?

  This is very comfortable. It looks like a pajama top.

• 0:48Michelle Obama?

  Well, that's what it's supposed to. It's fashion, as I say.

• 0:52Craig Robinson?

  Really?

• 0:52Michelle Obama?

  There's the look. It's the pajama look.

• 0:54Craig Robinson?

  No wonder kids are wearing pajamas to school.

• 0:56Michelle Obama?

  Who's giggling about pajamas? It's like.

• 0:58Craig Robinson?

  What? Crystal, what are you talking? It looks like a pajama top.

• 1:02Michelle Obama?

  And it's supposed to look like a pajama top.

• 1:05Craig Robinson?

  Just making an observation.

• 1:07Michelle Obama?

  It's just you not knowing things about the world and fashion.

• 1:10Craig Robinson?

  Pajama top, cuz I like my pajamas. I'm gonna be wearing mine now.

• 1:14Michelle Obama?

  It just looks like, it mimics a pajama. It mimics sort of the comfortable.

• 1:19Craig Robinson?

  But if it actually looks like a pajama top, why couldn't you wear a pajama top?

• 1:24Michelle Obama?

  There's, you could. And some people do actually wear the pajama top as fashion. This just happens to be a blouse that is fashioned after pajamas.

• 1:34Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 1:35Michelle Obama?

  And there's also, now, I don't know whether this had bottoms, but a look would be this exact same bottom, matching the bottoms.

• 1:43Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 1:44Michelle Obama?

  Have you seen people walking around the airport like that? It's probably not their pajamas.

• 1:48Craig Robinson?

  I, I, I have learned something because I thought they were pajamas.

• 1:52Michelle Obama?

  Expensive pantsuit.

• 1:54Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:56Craig Robinson?

  Cuz you wouldn't wanna wear it to bed after you wore it around the airport. I just like this look cuz it's.

• 2:04Craig Robinson?

  It's my look.

• 2:07Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's working for you.

• 2:10Craig Robinson?

  Let's get Jessica out here. She's my friend. I just met her and she's my friend.

• 2:16Michelle Obama?

  She's gonna be nicer to you than I am.

• 2:18Craig Robinson?

  Her mom likes me.

• 2:19Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:21Craig Robinson?

  Her mom likes me, though.

• 2:23Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you don't know.

• 2:24Craig Robinson?

  She better be nice to me. I'm gonna tell her mom.

• 2:29Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my goodness. Let's do our official introduction.

• 2:32Craig Robinson?

  Okay, so we have today Jessica Williams, a two-time Emmy and Critics' Choice nominated comedian, writer, and performer, who currently stars as Gabby in Apple TV's hit comedy series Shrinking, which I happen to have seen. In 2016, she she co-launched a podcast, Two Dope Queens, which became an HBO series in 2018 with a four-hour-long special. And if I don't, if I remember correctly, you were on that.

• 3:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 3:09Craig Robinson?

  You were on that. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

• 3:13Michelle Obama?

  Just finish the introduction.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, so anyway, I'm on this podcast in 2016.

• 3:19Craig Robinson?

  Come on out, Jessica.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  Wait, where do I go? Where do I go?

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Thank you. And then I was on The Daily Show. I was on The Daily Show. I was the youngest ever correspondent on that show for now.

• 3:35Michelle Obama?

  It just takes him so long to read.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Hey, you. What's going on? I'm excited. Remember, we joked about this carpet on carpet?

• 3:43Michelle Obama?

  Yes, carpet on carpet, big chairs.

• 3:46Craig Robinson?

  But once you get set, it's comfortable.

• 3:48Michelle Obama?

  It's super comfortable.

• 3:50Speaker 00

  You're not going anywhere. I feel like I can just.

• 3:53Craig Robinson?

  Welcome.

• 3:54Speaker 00

  Thank you. Wait, you said you've actually seen, you've seen our show. Do you not watch a lot of TV?

• 3:58Craig Robinson?

  No, I don't.

• 3:58Michelle Obama?

  He doesn't, which is.

• 3:59Craig Robinson?

  It's hard for me to watch TV because I have. Four children, two are grown, two are in sixteen and fourteen. So, and I'm coaching their teams and I'm, you know, I'm, I'm lifeing.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  Understood.

• 4:13Craig Robinson?

  So I, it's, I got, if, if I'm watching your show, you know, it must be good.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Absolutely. Understood. Cause you trying not to be on the couch.

• 4:20Craig Robinson?

  No, cause I, I would be sound asleep.

• 4:22Speaker 00

  Totally. I get it.

• 4:23Craig Robinson?

  Watch all the stuff. She's like, you don't watch enough popular culture stuff.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:28Craig Robinson?

  I'm like, I'll be watching the inside of my eyelids.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  I know, that's right. That's like the most dad old man thing Midwest. Watching the inside of my eyelids.

• 4:36Michelle Obama?

  Because he is, he's a dad old man.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  I know. I feel like it's very on brand for you with the quarter zip.

• 4:40Craig Robinson?

  I know.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  Getting the quarter zip.

• 4:42Michelle Obama?

  I know. With his fashion stuff.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  Here's my take on what I just watched with you two, okay? I was watching, I was like, wow, what an intro. Both of y'all look, look dope. Everything's working, you know, for the both, obviously.

• 4:56Michelle Obama?

  So you, you know, I mean, he, of course, he harped on the fact that your mother told you to say, hi, no king.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Yes, right. And she said, my mom said, obviously, I didn't tell her until the last minute. She was at my house just now. She was like, where are you going? I said, oh, I'm about to do IMO. And she went, ah! She like walked across the living room to give me a hug and all this stuff. And then she was like, well, obviously, please tell Michelle I love her example, she said. I love her success and I wish her all, I'm sending her all the love. And then don't forget Craig, she said, please don't forget Craig. Tell him I love him and all this stuff. And, you know, she said, it's gonna be easy. They're Midwest people. My mom, my, my family's from Ohio, so they're like.

• 5:36Michelle Obama?

  There is a difference. We were just in Ohio. We were in, uh, Yellow Springs, Ohio, near Springfield. And just, you know, salt of the earth kind of thing.

• 5:45Craig Robinson?

  Friendly.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:47Craig Robinson?

  Hey, how you doing? It's just great.

• 5:49Speaker 00

  Hey, how you doing is very nice. That doesn't happen, that doesn't happen as much as you think it would.

• 5:53Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, especially in LA.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Totally. Hey, how you doing?

• 5:57Craig Robinson?

  All right, first loaded question.

• 6:00Craig Robinson?

  Obviously, you're pro at this. We're just starting out here. How we doing?

• 6:06Speaker 00

  Great. This is lovely. There's some lovely people here. You guys can't see, there's a timer. We've got this gorgeous color. It's in between a pink and an orange.

• 6:15Michelle Obama?

  It's coral.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  It's coral. It is coral. And there's coral. I mean, I love it. This is really nice. And you guys have a great banter.

• 6:22Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it's been built up over the years.

• 6:25Craig Robinson?

  Many, many years.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  And everybody I talk to that's on this podcast loves doing it, which is a good sign. And I wouldn't say that if it wasn't true. I would be like, I would not say anything.

• 6:35Michelle Obama?

  You set a very good example. One of my first podcasts.

• 6:38Speaker 00

  No way, was it?

• 6:39Michelle Obama?

  I wasn't, you know, when we weren't into the podcast thing. Podcasting wasn't a thing when we were in the White House. I mean, we sort of kept to trend when it came to communications, you know? But I don't remember ever going on a podcast when I was First Lady.

• 6:55Speaker 00

  Oh, we were totally honored. Like, that was insane. It was really cool.

• 6:58Michelle Obama?

  So doing you guys, and you guys came to my office.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Yes, we did.

• 7:01Michelle Obama?

  Which was so cool.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:03Michelle Obama?

  You know? And incredibly impressed by the two of you.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  What made you want to do a podcast?

• 7:09Michelle Obama?

  Ah, God, these people in this room. They were like, you know what would be great for higher ground audio? It's like if you did a podcast.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 7:20Michelle Obama?

  And then I was like, I don't know. And they were like, what if Craig did it with you? And then I was like, oh, all right. So it's really a combination of them and him.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  Well, I have a craft room now in my house where I just do like crafting. I am, yeah. And sewing. And yeah, it's like how I stay sane. But I have you guys say it, and I just listen to you guys while I'm like sewing and crafting.

• 7:46Michelle Obama?

  Because you have to. Like, I was, as you probably know, I got into my knitting phase.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  I didn't know that.

• 7:52Michelle Obama?

  It's like, well, during COVID.

• 7:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, cool.

• 7:54Michelle Obama?

  So it's one of these things, it's like, okay, we're going to be trapped in the house. I mean, you know, we had the former president who believed in science, so we knew what was coming. You know? We would always be like, what do we have to do? And they were like, stop washing the vegetables. That doesn't, you know?

• 8:10Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 8:10Michelle Obama?

  So, you know, he would talk to Fauci and really find out.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  Crazy to like, listen to people who spent their whole lives studying something.

• 8:17Michelle Obama?

  Exactly, exactly. So we were, you know, we understood what we needed to do. We knew that we would need to hunker down. So I just started ordering. Crafts and stuff like that, like paintbrushes and I saw like knitting needles. Okay, let's go. Yeah, I used to crochet when I was little, so I got knitting needles and started learning the stitches and before you know it. I made, then I made everything.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  Really?

• 8:42Michelle Obama?

  I mean, I made scarves and then I made pillows. I made pillows. Then I made it an assignment. Then I was like, everybody's getting knitted gifts for Christmas. So I made pillows and then I made a sweater. Then I started making hats and I've made mittens before.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:01Michelle Obama?

  So there's a long way of saying, you can't do anything when you're crafting, except listen.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 9:08Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 9:08Speaker 00

  That's right. You gotta lock in.

• 9:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  Well, that's what I like about it is I'm always chasing flow state. No matter what that looks like, I want something. I'm trying to use my phone a lot less too. This is making me mad. I just look at it and I go, I'm mad. What am I looking at?

• 9:23Michelle Obama?

  What did I do?

• 9:24Speaker 00

  And then it's like, what am I communicating on Instagram? Like, it's like, look at what you don't have. Like, I don't want to do that. So I found that I'm happiest when I'm crafting, especially when I'm not working.

• 9:34Craig Robinson?

  So what are you making when you're crafting?

• 9:37Speaker 00

  I've been sewing. I've been sewing like a mad, a mad woman. I think I have a, I left it in the car. I had a, I made a heart shaped purse that I like sewed. I used quilting, quilting cotton, but it's like a ditzy fabric. So kind of like grandma. Like you would get it out like a countryside in. It's puffy. I padded it because I wanted to put my laptop in it and it's a big red heart. I quilted it and then it has ruffles on it.

• 10:04Craig Robinson?

  Oh, wow.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  Another thing I made are a pair of shorts. They're like two different legs. Well, the other thing is because I'm tall.

• 10:11Michelle Obama?

  That's the best thing.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  Like, because we're tall, I think sizes are just a suggestion.

• 10:16Michelle Obama?

  But they do better now.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  Totally, totally, very inclusive.

• 10:19Michelle Obama?

  I can actually buy things off of, offline.

• 10:22Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 10:23Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  And then, but there's also like a really good, like, there's like a unisex runoff because of like drag culture and stuff that I've benefited from and like pushing the limits of sexuality and gender. I can find bigger shoes. It's like shoes now will go to like

• 10:37Michelle Obama?

  What size do you wear?

• 10:38Speaker 00

  Eleven, I'm eleven.

• 10:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I'm now, I'm ten and a half, eleven.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  Eleven, right? So I'll go eleven, eleven and a half. And it's, it's been a struggle, but now it's like really cool.

• 10:47Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, they're doing better.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  I know.

• 10:49Craig Robinson?

  But shorts with separate legs?

• 10:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're just two different fabrics. So, but I made, but I can do whatever I want.

• 10:56Michelle Obama?

  He's, he's very style. He's style ignorant.

• 10:59Craig Robinson?

  No.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  Shorts are like when you have a fan.

• 11:00Craig Robinson?

  No, hang on a second, Jessica.

• 11:02Michelle Obama?

  Can I, what do you mean by that?

• 11:04Craig Robinson?

  No, you were saying that and then you were cut off before you could finish telling me about the way. And it went a different direction.

• 11:12Michelle Obama?

  Shots fired.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:13Michelle Obama?

  Shots fired.

• 11:14Craig Robinson?

  I was interested in understanding what two different legs were.

• 11:17Speaker 00

  Okay, well, I also made a quilt top.

• 11:20Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 11:21Speaker 00

  That's not fashion, that's just more of a home good.

• 11:24Michelle Obama?

  I mean, there's nothing more satisfying than like, I did this and I can put it on and carry it out into the world.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  And you know, you have a million gifts. Now you have a million gift ideas and it matters more than like, to me than like this really, really nice purse. It's also very sustainable. It's like making stuff out of things you have.

• 11:41Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 11:42Michelle Obama?

  Did you, were you crafty as a kid or did you?

• 11:45Speaker 00

  No, I was more performing arts. I was doing like, I went to, I grew up here in LA more in, it's called the South Bay. So it's more like the beach cities, like Torrance, Redondo, that area, Harper City. And I knew I wanted to do performing arts when I was a kid. And here it's a lot easier to, to do performing arts. I went to public school. So I did, I would do drama festivals, Shakespeare festivals, um, school musicals. And then we had a high school improv team when I was in high school and I tried out for my high school improv team. And I got on there and that sort of started my, my comedy tract and like my love for, for comedy.

• 12:25Michelle Obama?

  Were you always this person? That we see before you.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 12:29Michelle Obama?

  You're quick, you're.

• 12:31Craig Robinson?

  Confident.

• 12:32Michelle Obama?

  You're confident, you're on top of it. You know.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  No, I don't think so. I mean, a lot comes with being black, being a girl.

• 12:40Michelle Obama?

  Being tall.

• 12:40Speaker 00

  Being tall. And I was always tall. And you know, you know, I was just talking to you about that. I love talking about being tall to people that are tall. I don't like talking about being tall to people that aren't tall.

• 12:49Michelle Obama?

  They don't get it.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  So I feel very safe here.

• 12:50Michelle Obama?

  They are, you are very safe.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Very safe.

• 12:52Michelle Obama?

  We know.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Very safe.

• 12:54Michelle Obama?

  We know, we know. Would you consider yourself shy? Were you ever shy?

• 12:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:00Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 13:00Speaker 00

  Totally. I'm like on right now because I'm working.

• 13:03Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  But when I'm home, like imagine I get in my car. I'm like, thank you, Craig, on the show. Thank you. And I just go like that. And I power down. I just go. And then my driver, Juan's gonna be like, are you okay?

• 13:16Michelle Obama?

  It's like, I'm done, I'm done. I'm just done. I'm off.

• 13:20Craig Robinson?

  How old were you when you realized you wanted to be an actor?

• 13:23Speaker 00

  Ooh, really young. I got a really nice, sweet spot of TV. It was before Nickelodeon and Disney became 24-hour networks. There was like a time where, as a millennial, I'm 36. So we got to see like all that. There was like sketch comedy, Kenan and Kel. There was a lot of really funny stuff that was made for kids. But then at about 8, 8:30, they would start showing like Happy Days, Escape to Rich Mountain, Lassie. So you still got like older stuff. Like it wasn't, they would have something called Vault Disney. So it wasn't like you just watched stuff for kids. You watched everything. I remember Fresh Prince really meant a lot to me as a kid. Men in Black, like Will Smith really meant a lot to me. Just talking about Queen Latifah really meant a lot to me.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  Whoopi Goldberg, just like these women, these like black women who could play in rom-coms and can really, they can do it all. And then I got Saturday Night Live and Mad TV, which I, my grandma lived in the valley. And when she'd watch me, she would let me stay up late. And she would drink a Colt 45. And she's from Ohio, so lived really hard. And I would get her diabetes medication, but also I would go get her her beer. You know, so.

• 14:29Michelle Obama?

  It's like, here we go.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Totally. I got my girl stacked up. That's my girl. Like a frigging seven-year-old is insane. But I really like, I just thought she was like the most beautiful person ever. This like lady who watched TV all day, but um I just, she just had the best sense. She would watch South Park. She would watch It'll Swim. Yeah. She was just really bawdy. She would watch Carol Burnett. Like she just, we watched the nanny. Oh, of course. I got all that stuff from her.

• 14:55Michelle Obama?

  We got so teared up with her. I mean, Carol Burnett meant so much to our family and our sense of humor. And she is as lovely in person.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  I'd love to meet her. I adored her on Palm Real.

• 15:06Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  I thought that was such a blessing to be able to like watch it. Yeah, it was amazing. I really love that show. But again, I got, so I got to see all these things, but I didn't know that that was, I was getting an education in all sorts of TV and culture with her, which was really nice.

• 15:23Michelle Obama?

  Did you grow up, um, did you have brothers and sisters? You have a?

• 15:28Speaker 00

  I have an older sister and I have a younger brother, but we're all really different. My brother's more, he played football, come from a football family. And then my older sister likes business. She likes like local politics and stuff like that. So my sister, I think she works for the teachers unions right now. So she reps, she reps teachers in the university system.

• 15:47Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 15:48Speaker 00

  Um, so we all were in different lanes. She would run for student body and all that stuff. And I got to do drama club, Shakespeare Club, um.

• 15:56Michelle Obama?

  Were you guys, did you guys go to school together?

• 15:58Speaker 00

  We did. We went to school together. My brother went to a football school, but there was something really nice about not overlapping. We all had just different interests. And so I got to be like the middle child. What's your, your, your birth order? How many siblings do you have? Because I think birth order is the new, I think it's the new astrology.

• 16:14Michelle Obama?

  I, I agree. I see it in our, our kids. We see it. He has four. I have two. I have Malia and Sasha. And it's very much their personalities and the choices they make because the younger child, you're trying to define yourself against the older. So there was a lot of things, oh, I'm not doing that. Or I'm doing that because you're not doing that. And you know, you're a younger kid. So how much of it was your choice and how much of it were you battling against somebody else?

• 16:41Speaker 00

  It's like your first friend, like your sibling is like, I feel very lucky to have mine. Like, minds make me laugh. All the time. I'm like, I just sometimes I'll be like, especially with my brother. I'm like, you're my best friend. This is what I'm thinking. And then I'll see him and my sister and I'll go, look at the both of them. So beautiful, so handsome. I'm so happy to know you. I feel like that's like my 30s is being like, look at this family.

• 17:06Michelle Obama?

  So lucky.

• 17:07Speaker 00

  I like all of us. That's nice. Like, I feel very, very blessed to have that.

• 17:11Craig Robinson?

  Did your sister try and protect you when she was younger?

• 17:15Speaker 00

  But she was annoyed because me and my brother were like, we're not listening to you like what? And then my sister is more, she's like the person that I would imagine is the closest to Beyonce, who doesn't try to be Beyonce.

• 17:25Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Just really gorgeous and glamorous and works really hard. And just all the really, really lovely things that she would love in a beautiful black woman. And then I feel more like, I'm just, you know, my braids are grown out. My braids are grown. My underwear is starting to get too tight.

• 17:45Speaker 00

  It's kind of, I gotta order some new underwear, but I don't feel like it. I don't feel like, just kind of barely hanging on, you know? It's like, oh, I gotta go do this podcast. Should I shave my legs? Probably not. I'm like lucky to, I, like a bunch of people put this together and rolled me over here.

• 18:01Michelle Obama?

  It's like get in the car.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  Totally, totally.

• 18:04Michelle Obama?

  Your face is beat. Yeah. Do you do your, do you do your own makeup?

• 18:07Speaker 00

  Never. No, I do like makeup a lot, actually, and I love it. But I have this, I have two women that I love that does my makeup. And the one who does this makeup is, I'm very lucky. She's very silly, very goofy. She's like very silly. It was, you ever have that surprise where you're like, oh, my gosh, this person is so silly.

• 18:27Michelle Obama?

  Just what you need, to have somebody in your face. You have to like them and feel their energy.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  Totally. It feels like I'm hanging out with my friend. And the person who does my hair too, I feel they're, they're like two groups.

• 18:37Michelle Obama?

  When you are in the public eye, your team becomes your family because you're with them more than you're with, you know, your own family sometimes.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  Do you like it in your hair and makeup then?

• 18:47Michelle Obama?

  You know, I like the people in the same way. I enjoy that more, but I'm like you. When I'm down, I'm down. I mean, you know, I structure my life around hair and makeup. It's like, let's get it all in, you know? It's like having an update. Stack them up because I don't want to have to do this. And don't touch me, don't touch me.

• 19:05Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 19:06Michelle Obama?

  Don't touch me.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  That's right. I feel like it's having a good day. You get it.

• 19:10Michelle Obama?

  You do.

• 19:12Craig Robinson?

  I have no idea what you all are talking about.

• 19:14Speaker 00

  It's true, though, so much of what we do, especially because, oh, my God, people are so mean. They're so mean online. You are so mean.

• 19:21Michelle Obama?

  They are.

• 19:22Speaker 00

  I spend most of my day.

• 19:23Michelle Obama?

  That's why you can't look.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  No, I can't. But most of my life, I feel like, is leaving my house and trying not to get my feelings hurt.

• 19:30Michelle Obama?

  I know.

• 19:30Craig Robinson?

  Really?

• 19:31Speaker 00

  Yes, like at the store. Or some people will just be like, oh, my God, you're so much prettier than I thought. Like, just even things like that. Where you're like, wow. And I'm just here, I'm just here at Albertson's.

• 19:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you get, you get that. It's like, oh, you're really pretty in person. And I'm like, oh, my God. What picture were they looking at?

• 19:49Speaker 00

  What are you looking at?

• 19:50Craig Robinson?

  See, you needed an older brother. See, he would have, he would have calloused you from all of that.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  Totally. I mean, I have cousins. Still, like, still.

• 19:59Craig Robinson?

  That didn't work?

• 20:00Speaker 00

  No, still, like, I'm so sensitive. And it's, there's, I, as I get older, I'm like, that's just how I am.

• 20:14Craig Robinson?

  This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. Mish, what is one of the biggest swings or leaps of faith you've taken professionally or otherwise? For me, you remember, it was when I left investment banking to go into assistant coaching. That was a big swing for me. I remember calling you and you helping me to be OK with that decision.

• 20:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, I've had a lot of big swings. I mean, you know, me leaving my job at the law firm, where I was making a ton of money in corporate law and deciding to go and work in go. Government and public service where it cut my salary in half. And I remember how guilty I felt for going to mom and dad and even expressing an interest to do something that I cared about rather than something that would make the absolute most money. I mean, at the time, I was making my salary was more than both mom and dad's salary combined.

• 21:17Craig Robinson?

  How do you think your age at the time shaped that decision? Do big decisions feel more or less daunting at different stages of life?

• 21:26Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God, that felt like the biggest decision that I would make. I mean, I had invested so much in getting my law degree. And then to walk away from it, it was scary. But we've talked about it. You know, once you make that first scary leap, you know, that first hard decision and you realize that you land pretty solidly on the other side of that leap.

• 21:53Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 21:54Michelle Obama?

  You get comfortable with taking those risks and understanding. So, yes, age definitely makes the difference because now, you know, I'm more confident in my ability that when I take a big swing, that I'm pretty, I have the tools to land wherever I need to land.

• 22:14Craig Robinson?

  You know, it feels easier to make big decisions when you're young because if they don't work out, you don't have a lot of people to, you don't have a lot to lose. It's harder when you're older because now the stakes are higher.

• 22:27Michelle Obama?

  It's true.

• 22:27Craig Robinson?

  And more people are relying on these decisions to be the right one. All of our listeners have faced big decisions and their fair share of uncertainty. I remember the first time I ever bought a house, one of the biggest leaps you ever take. I was really intimidated by the whole process. But when the time came, all I could do was trust my gut and have faith that it was the right decision. Progressive understands the hurdles first time homebuyers are facing, including housing affordability challenges and a lack of straightforward education that could make the homebuying process feel less intimidating.

• 23:09Craig Robinson?

  Progressive's Open the House initiative is committed to breaking down these barriers and making first times a little easier. Since 2024, Progressive has committed more than $16 million towards making the dream of homeownership more achievable.

• 23:27Craig Robinson?

  This includes a $3.5 million investment this year towards the up payment, Progressive's down payment assistant program aimed at first time home buyers. Learn more about the up payment program and Progressive's commitment to first time home buyers at progressive.com/openthehouse, where home buyers can discover more about housing challenges and access resources and support to empower them in their housing journey.

• 24:03Michelle Obama?

  Did you feel pretty? I mean, this is another tall girl thing, right? You know, it's like when you're a tall girl, you know, it's like you don't start feeling pretty until you're an adult and you can, you really realize that it's like, oh, I really like this height.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  Totally, and a lot of, go ahead.

• 24:21Craig Robinson?

  And part of the problem is you don't meet tall guys until later because it takes us so long to catch up.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:28Craig Robinson?

  Height wise.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  I mean, the big part of it, the overarching is media standards and our diet. Our media diet, actually, is so counter to physically what we look like.

• 24:40Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  It's the opposite, actually. And if nobody's talking to you about, I feel like now we have that conversation about, what are we looking at on TV? Who's desirable on TV? Who, you know, who is considered petite or feminine, which is what's valued in a heteronormative society? Like, our media diet is what is the overarching thing. You know, when they do the doll test and, you know, those studies. But, but, you know, that's the big thing. And so I think if you're a person of color, you are, we are downloading that our entire lives and taking away whatever it is, especially since it's nothing you ever really say out loud.

• 25:15Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 25:16Speaker 00

  But for me.

• 25:17Michelle Obama?

  Because you know better. You know better than to say it. It's not like we were taught that. I mean, I know my parents and my brother, they thought I was beautiful. They told, you know, so wasn't, you know? So it's when you're at school. Wait, why are you doing that?

• 25:31Speaker 00

  I don't know, but I'm doing it. He's doing it. I'm doing it, but I only did it to be like.

• 25:36Michelle Obama?

  Sense of humor is sort of like, what are you, what are you doing?

• 25:39Speaker 00

  But he's closest to me, so I had to yes and him, you know, so I guess, but like.

• 25:45Craig Robinson?

  Great job.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  I don't know, I'm a term goat, I am a term goat.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  But totally, like, I, I, so no, I did it because I'm very, I'm a feeler, I'm very sensitive, like, there's no, you know, and then, you know, when you're on TV and you're, you do events, they like pay people to make sure you look good. So it's like a lot, it's like the, you know, who you are when you're at home, braless, you know, watching Real Housewives of Rhode Island.

• 26:12Michelle Obama?

  Can you imagine? They did Rhode Island.

• 26:14Speaker 00

  No, they did, did you see it?

• 26:15Michelle Obama?

  Yes, of course.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  I just watched it last night. I use my time. I know you don't know what it is, and so I don't want to get into it, but I'm enjoying, what did you think? I'm enjoying it thoroughly.

• 26:24Michelle Obama?

  He's supposed to be watching one.

• 26:27Craig Robinson?

  Here's what happened, here's what happened.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  Go ahead.

• 26:29Craig Robinson?

  I said, why don't I watch Rhode Island? Cause it's the new one, everybody's here, and you know what she said? Don't watch that one, it's not gonna be any good. Now she's watching it, and I missed it.

• 26:39Michelle Obama?

  Well, I watched them all, so that's not a measure, you know, so.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  What's your recommendation for him, though?

• 26:44Michelle Obama?

  I, I think Potomac.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think Potomac.

• 26:47Michelle Obama?

  Potomac, Potomac is the one where like, I actually am laughing with them because they are very funny.

• 26:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:53Michelle Obama?

  I think Potomac start, they've got two seasons ago.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I guess you don't have to start from the beginning.

• 26:59Craig Robinson?

  You don't have to, you can just jump right in.

• 27:01Michelle Obama?

  They've changed. Like, I want him to see that whole evolution.

• 27:04Craig Robinson?

  So I have to watch it from the beginning.

• 27:06Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no. We have a limited time, we know we have a limited runway, so we're saying start from like, two seasons ago. And, no, it's a lot.

• 27:16Michelle Obama?

  A lot, yeah.

• 27:17Craig Robinson?

  Cause it's more than like eight episodes, isn't it?

• 27:20Michelle Obama?

  Do it for the team, you know, you're a professional now, you're professional. I mean, this is the other thing, you can't be in podcasting and not know pop culture.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  You can't.

• 27:28Michelle Obama?

  Like, you can't, you know, I might have to replace him.

• 27:33Craig Robinson?

  Here we go, here we go.

• 27:35Michelle Obama?

  You've.

• 27:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm having.

• 27:36Michelle Obama?

  Are you free, Jessica?

• 27:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, with you, yeah, I live right over here, definitely.

• 27:40Michelle Obama?

  I live right down the street.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  What about 90 Day? Do you watch 90 Day, fiance?

• 27:43Michelle Obama?

  You know, that I I watch glimpses of 90 Day, but I that I I have a hard time. There's a lot of that.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  I can't recommend it in good conscience. It's either you do watch it or you don't. I can't.

• 27:55Michelle Obama?

  I have watched it. I've watched it.

• 27:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:57Michelle Obama?

  But I it's like I can watch anything.

• 28:00Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 28:00Michelle Obama?

  I have trouble watching that. That's how bad it is.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  It's not good for your soul.

• 28:04Michelle Obama?

  It is not.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  TLC is, you have Bravo and you know, you're like, OK, Andy's Andy's behind the strings. And you're like, this is a there's a standard. TLC, you're like, this is this is what am I watching?

• 28:15Michelle Obama?

  What do you think of Rhode Island so far?

• 28:17Speaker 00

  I'm I love it. I it's got everything. There's a lot of drama that's happened.

• 28:21Michelle Obama?

  So much drama.

• 28:22Speaker 00

  I mean, the camera started rolling.

• 28:24Michelle Obama?

  They're all so messy.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  Totally. I also wasn't expecting the accents. Like, I realized I didn't know anything about Rhode Island.

• 28:30Michelle Obama?

  I was just thinking that the other day. I didn't know what to expect from Rhode Island.

• 28:34Speaker 00

  There's a really strong, like, he's over here. You're like, I didn't know this is what I'm gonna get, but I want it.

• 28:39Craig Robinson?

  See, that's why I was gonna watch that. We used to live in Rhode Island.

• 28:42Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 28:42Craig Robinson?

  So I thought I'd be able to connect to that one.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  Still don't. It's not the one.

• 28:47Craig Robinson?

  I won't.

• 28:47Michelle Obama?

  Well, we don't know. It's still too new.

• 28:49Craig Robinson?

  OK.

• 28:49Michelle Obama?

  It's still too new.

• 28:51Craig Robinson?

  Potomac, I'm gonna jump right in.

• 28:52Michelle Obama?

  OK, then you gotta you gotta get it in.

• 28:55Craig Robinson?

  I'll get it.

• 28:56Michelle Obama?

  It's fun. Well, I now I'm wondering, tell me about your parents, you know?

• 29:00Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 29:00Michelle Obama?

  They they raged you.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:03Michelle Obama?

  Creative, interesting people. What were they like?

• 29:05Speaker 00

  My mom liked football players and bouncers who become bouncers. And that's why I'm tall. I'm just trying to tell you why I'm tall, as my mom has a type. And especially as I get older, I'm like, that's really cute. Like, my mom's always like, my mom's always like, how's W. Kamau Bell? Have you spoken to him in a while? And I'm like, oh, brother, like, she loves like a tall, a tall black man. Um, and so, yeah, I think she met my stepdad. We have a really blended family.

• 29:35Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  She met my stepdad at the Ohio State University. And my real dad, I think she met at the Ohio State University, because they're Ohio people.

• 29:42Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 29:42Speaker 00

  Then she moved to LA, lived in LA. Highland Park for a while. There was like some, some clubs, like the Golden Tail that like black people used to go to and like Deaf Comedy Jam. My dad, my stepdad is like bodyguard and bouncer on the circuit, police officer, all those things. And then they reconnected here and then they got married and I, they came, my dad came with my two siblings, my older sister and my younger brother. And they raised us together in the South Bay, which is about 20 miles south of here, which is a really nice place to grow up. You're like in LA, but you're not. So you can have a really, really nice, normal life.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  And I don't know, they were always very encouraging because my dad did a lot of entertainment. And they're always really encouraging of, of the arts. And so they all kind of let us be, be ourselves. They were tough on me. Like I went to like a gifted and talented program, tested into that, went to a magnet school, had to transfer schools to go to a predominantly like kind of white and Korean and Japanese program. And then

• 30:49Michelle Obama?

  Was your neighborhood diverse?

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, my neighborhood was, but I had to go a little farther more to like Palos Verdes, San Pedro area to go to school because I read a lot. And then, um, then I went to high school and, and, and they had a really great performing arts program, super underfunded, LAUSD, but a really great performing arts program. So I did a lot of that, did improv and then did Upright Sisters Brigade when I got in college. And then I went to Cal State Long Beach.

• 31:17Michelle Obama?

  You went to Cal State?

• 31:18Speaker 00

  I went to Cal State Long Beach. And then I did Upright Sisters Brigade and something called Comedy Sports. And then I got The Daily Show while I was doing that.

• 31:24Michelle Obama?

  How old were you?

• 31:24Speaker 00

  22. I was 22 and I got that. I know. Now that I'm 36, I'm like, wow.

• 31:28Michelle Obama?

  Baby baller.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally. You said baby baller?

• 31:31Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was a baby baller. It was one of those things where they, they didn't know how I got hired. Like I was auditioning for Alison Jones for this Will Ferrell movie. And she was like, you might be too young, but they're casting The Daily Show. Can you come back in and, and do these two sides? And it was like a stand-up where you have a green screen background. And then there was a thing at the desk where you're like talking to John and you're at the desk. And I was like, sure. And then I did that and they sent the tape in. And then maybe two days later, I was at the Panda Express on my campus. There was like a Panda Express there in between classes. And they were like, Jon Stewart saw your tape. He wants to fly you out to audition with him in New York.

• 32:15Michelle Obama?

  What do you do when you get that call?

• 32:17Speaker 00

  I screamed. I think I had an undercut, like Rihanna's undercut. I think I had green hair. I remember my best friend and I screamed and my mom took me to TJ Maxx. And we got like a Jones New York suit. And I just remember flying out. It was so cold because it was in Hell's Kitchen. The wind whips around. I felt like I was in like a Broadway musical where I'm on the streets of New York and I'm scared and I'm twenty.

• 32:41Michelle Obama?

  I'm gonna make it in showbiz.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  Anywhere. And I just remember auditioning with him, him just being so nice and just being like, you know, I'll talk to you soon. And he auditioned me by being like, hey, I'm Jon Stewart. Like, it's so nice to meet you. I already saw your tape. You're so funny. All you have to do is like be present with me. And that, that really released me. And I do really well with mentors like that who are very nice. Because I'm so sensitive. I don't do well with mean mentors, which I think that can work for people. Another reason why sports were hard for me. Because I need somebody to really be nice to me.

• 33:22Michelle Obama?

  A mean coach.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it works. We're not all a monolith. Like, you know, some people need to be tough. Some people need their asses whooped too. Like, some people need it, you know? And, but he was very sweet. It's like I could tell, some people you can tell are girl dads. Like, there's something about working with a girl dad who's a good girl dad where you're like, you're, that's good. They made you better. Like, you've learned a lot having girls and I like the way you deal with women in your life. So anyway, I got that job pretty quickly. I say that a lot because it was the kind of audition where he wasn't making it seem like I had to prove myself. And at 22, black girl, I needed that, especially coming up in comedy. Because there's like, especially at that time, a lot of mean white guys in comedy, actually.

• 34:08Speaker 00

  And who are like, you're not funny. You have to prove yourself to be funny, like all that stuff. And I had had a lot of that up until that point.

• 34:15Michelle Obama?

  So was that your, how did, how did you know what to do on The Daily Show? I mean, it's like-

• 34:20Speaker 00

  It's a machine. Like, it's been, it had been going for a really long time. And, and as a correspondent, your day is watching the news all day. You're looking for stories. People are pitching stories. And then there's like a field producer segment. And those are like, they're kind of bro-y, at least when I was there. It's like the guys that you go to Utah with and you interview somebody who's gonna say like, we should eat babies. And you're like, tell me more. And you have those packages. And then you have the stuff that you do with John. And then a lot of those people went to Ivy Leagues. And it's like two kind of separate things. And then you kind of ping pong back and forth. But there's like a schedule. But when you're 22, you know, it was like grad, I didn't finish college, but it felt like grad school. You learn to kill your darlings.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  Just because it's funny doesn't mean it's gonna make it. You learn how to work for one person. You know, you're, I, we're editing these field pieces. And it depends on how John's feeling that day. But it's like watching his reaction. But that's important to, to work for someone. It's important to be like, oh, he didn't like this as much. And just because you think it should be some, some way, at the end of the day, that's your boss and you're gonna do it that way. And then also he, we had been in a room full of people. And I would be sort of like, oh, like, I have something to say about Coney 2012. And he'd be like, yes, Jessica, like, what do you think? You know, in this whole room full of people. So he was a really good boss for me for, for that. And I learned a lot about who I was. And it's also a really nice way to move to New York. It's like on somebody else's dime with a job.

• 35:48Michelle Obama?

  Where'd you live?

• 35:49Speaker 00

  I lived in Hell's Kitchen first. And then Wyatt Snack was like Mr. Brooklyn. And he was like, I'm gonna show you something about Brooklyn.

• 35:56Michelle Obama?

  Like, this is Brooklyn.

• 35:58Speaker 00

  So then I had lived in Williamsburg, Clinton Hill, Prospect Heights, all over.

• 36:02Michelle Obama?

  How long were you there?

• 36:03Speaker 00

  About 10 years. And then I, COVID happened.

• 36:06Michelle Obama?

  So you grew up?

• 36:07Speaker 00

  And I wanted to be with my parents. Yeah, totally, my twenties. I spent my twenties there. And it was great. Like I, this is, LA is like my heart and my soul. But New York really affected me profoundly.

• 36:18Craig Robinson?

  What was the hardest part about working on The Daily Show?

• 36:22Speaker 00

  I think doing field pieces, like I think traveling and you're going to a rally is very scary. You know, doing that is, it takes guts.

• 36:30Craig Robinson?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  Interviewing someone, you know, in the middle of Florida, you know, is really scary. And you're gonna, you know, you're gonna have to do bits and get it out. You know, you don't know if they're gonna freak out or something. And I remember having quite a bit of anxiety and sometimes I would text the other correspondents like, here I go. You know, I hope I get what I need. But yeah, especially now, it's like what they're doing, like Jordan and Desi and Ronnie and, you know, it's like, and Josh, it's like really cool that they're doing that. But for me, it gave, it gave me a lot of anxiety, especially coming up more introverted.

• 37:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Just have to, you know, that's the life we chose. That's the job.

• 37:07Craig Robinson?

  Wow.

• 37:08Michelle Obama?

  Were you, were you glad to be doing it? Did you feel like you were in your, in your, your sweet spot?

• 37:14Speaker 00

  Absolutely. It was really nice to have you guys in the White House. Yeah, it was nice. It was like, it's harder now, I think, because there's just so much.

• 37:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 00

  There's so much and it's really, really, really like a trigger point now. Um, but yes, it was great. It was, it was funny. The Daily Show is something where you wouldn't know, you, you don't know who's watching it. And you would get really cool people that watch the show, which is really nice. But yeah, I, I learned so much, but it's hard because with that and podcasting, it's like, I always knew I was an actor. So I had to do like a hard pivot and be like, oh, well, I started this as an actor. I just so happened to, to do improv and really like comedy.

• 37:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Craig Robinson?

  That's gotta take a lot of courage because you got this regular job and you're doing well. And then, but you know, you were destined for something else. So how did you, how and when did you decide, okay, this is enough, I gotta, I gotta follow my passion?

• 38:08Speaker 00

  Totally. I mean, it was really hard because people were like, oh, like we want you to run the Daily Show. It's not something I live, they're like, oh, we want you to host the Daily Show. And I'm thinking, I don't want to. I love them. I love it. It's a hard job. You do it every night. I wonder, I imagine people are like, for me, it's like, when I told people I was doing this, they were like, "Tell Michelle we wanted to be president." I was like, "She doesn't want to be freaking president. Like, what are you talking about?"

• 38:30Michelle Obama?

  Those people don't know what the job, they don't know what the job is.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  I know, but you do.

• 38:34Michelle Obama?

  It's like, you don't know what this is.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  You do, and you wanted to, you would do it. What are you talking about? You know, and so it was, I remember one day, it was this whole to do. It was just like, "You host," and I was like, "I don't want to do that. You know how much work that is? You only see your family. I'm, I'm looking at the news like this all day. Then I have to put on a suit. I don't want to wear a suit, but you do look better in a suit when you're hosting. You have to wear a suit, you know? I don't want to do that shit.

• 38:56Michelle Obama?

  You can't wear your pajama top and your loose fitting.

• 38:59Speaker 00

  No, girl, I want to listen to Stallange. I want to sew, I want to sew a tote bag, okay?

• 39:04Michelle Obama?

  That's right, that's like, that's who I am, deep down inside.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  And you have to know that I know better than you because I watch people do the job. And I, I know what it takes to do the job. I know better than you, you know? So it's like, "Tell Michelle." And it's like, "Don't you want her to run for president?" "No, I don't. No. Why? She did it. We're good. Let her freaking do her whatever, you know? But let her knit, um, and deal with y'all asses." Um, but yeah, so it, you know, it is hard to leave something that was like my womb. But I never thought, like, since John went back and since I've gotten to do shrinking, that I get to go back. And so I've done a couple of bits going back home and it feels really good.

• 39:45Michelle Obama?

  Being able to dabble in it is very different.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  They're, they're the best over there. They're like, "If you want to do something, let us know." It's like, great. But I, I never thought I'd be able to, to work with John again in that capacity. And I feel very lucky.

• 40:05Craig Robinson?

  This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully.

• 40:13Craig Robinson?

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• 40:54Craig Robinson?

  That kind of help can make a real difference when you're trying to get your foot in the door. Progressive understands the challenges many first time home buyers are up against. With education, tools, and financial resources, they're here to help you stop waiting on the sidelines and start moving toward homeownership, one confident step at a time. Want to learn more about the Up Payment Program and Progressive's commitment to first time home buyers? Visit progressive.com slash open the house, where home buyers can discover more about housing challenges and access resources and support to empower them in their housing journey.

• 41:41Michelle Obama?

  Back to tall people, always in acting. Okay, no offense to the all of Hollywood. They're so small.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  I know.

• 41:52Michelle Obama?

  They're such small people.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 41:54Michelle Obama?

  And I always miss, I don't see anyone because I'm looking for, that's X, and I'm looking up and they're down and I miss them. They walk right past my waist.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  They're like, you didn't know that was Tom Cruise?

• 42:07Michelle Obama?

  I was like, I wouldn't know. I thought Tom Cruise was my height.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 42:11Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 42:12Speaker 00

  Totally. I'm doing a rom com right now that I think you'll be really excited about. It's like me and a shorter, a guy who's shorter than me.

• 42:18Michelle Obama?

  I love that.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  And I'm really excited. And I was like, trying to tell him, I was like, look. Look at Tom and Zendaya. And he's like, no, I'm not gonna Google that. But I know for me, it's my inspo is Tom and Zendaya. And I love looking at, but I just want, I love looking at them walking around in London with their little dog. And he's a little short king and she's a tall queen and it just looks so right. It just looks so right. And it's like, why Hollywood? Why? It looks good.

• 42:42Michelle Obama?

  We can do this.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  So I'm trying to take it, I'm trying to take it back. Because it's ridiculous. There's a weird like doll, baby doll Barbie and Ken thing. That's like, if you're tall, you can't be with somebody short. But it looks really good.

• 42:54Michelle Obama?

  You think you need to be under the arm of the guy.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 42:56Michelle Obama?

  And sometimes I still watch that. I still watch women who are underneath somebody's arm. And I'm like, I don't even know what that feels like.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  No, Zendaya takes Thomas, she just grabs him. And he's right on her middle and he's grabbing it. They're both grabbing each other like, I love paparazzi photos of Zendaya. Thank you guys so much if you're watching. It really means a lot to me in the tall woman community. But I really hope to take back the rom com. And be like, no, let them be shorter than me. It's actually really lovely.

• 43:25Michelle Obama?

  On the tall woman side, that, you know, the fact that women's athletics has really developed. And we were seeing all types of bodies and images. And it's, I, I feel so good about the next generation of girls coming up. I don't know about you, but when I meet a tall, young girl.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:42Michelle Obama?

  I stop.

• 43:43Speaker 00

  I know, me too.

• 43:43Michelle Obama?

  And I'm like, girl, you are, this is exciting.

• 43:46Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 43:46Michelle Obama?

  You know, and I see you and stand tall, you know, do not worry about this. You will grow into it. It will be fabulous. Um, but we didn't have those, you know, there was.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  I know you did.

• 43:59Craig Robinson?

  When I see tall, young girls, I stop too. And I tell them, they didn't make them like that when I was younger. Yeah.

• 44:07Speaker 00

  Especially like.

• 44:08Craig Robinson?

  Cause when you think, I'm sorry, when you think about you two, you all aren't that tall. You're tall, but you're not like.

• 44:15Michelle Obama?

  I'm still, I'm 5'10". Yeah, I'm, I'm 5'11".

• 44:19Speaker 00

  I'm six, but then when you add the shoes and you add the hair and the thing, you know, it feel, and also presence. Like I'm not gonna, I think my presence feels tall.

• 44:27Michelle Obama?

  So how is it, uh, getting cast when you're, you know? When everybody is five, six and.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  It's hard.

• 44:36Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's really hard. People, I think, there's a lot in this business about people hiring the same people over and over. Like, sometimes I look at movie trailers and I'm like, I just saw all these people in a different movie. And now it's like, and now we're bringing you them in a different movie. And you're like, ah, you know, we have to, we have to work to make people, make it look different, you know? And then there's something about being like not mixed also, which means you work less considerably. You know, every show, there's like a lovely mixed young lady on the show. And that benefits everyone because she can have a white parent and a black parent. And it's again, our media diet. It's like, what are we saying? Um, and then being tall on top of that, it's like really, really hard to get cast. You just have to, you can't rest.

• 45:22Speaker 00

  You have to prove yourself all the time. But I feel lucky to be on Shrinking because we shoot that like five or six months out of the year. And it's just by my house. And it's just another opportunity for me to just show what I can, what I know I can do. Just, I, I do think if you keep chipping away at something.

• 45:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 45:39Speaker 00

  If you just keep.

• 45:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 45:40Speaker 00

  Keep doing it, keep showing up, then finally things will open for you. Oh, thank you so much.

• 45:45Michelle Obama?

  You really are. I mean, that's one of my favorite shows.

• 45:47Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you.

• 45:48Michelle Obama?

  I've, uh, had, had the opportunity to meet Harrison and.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  Oh, he did?

• 45:53Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah, my God. He's so sweet. One of the sweetest people in the world. Trying to get him on the show, but I'll, I'll corner him into that.

• 46:00Speaker 00

  Totally. Oh, you should, you should corner him.

• 46:01Michelle Obama?

  Guilt him. It's like the former first lady really wants you on the show.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  He's like, okay, well, uh, what? Like, I don't know. I don't even know how you would begin to do that. I feel lucky that we get him to act. Yeah, totally. We were just with, I was just with him the last two days and like, he's just a maniac. Like, we're, he's our, especially on set, he's like our, I mean, it's Jason's show, but Harrison is like the sun. And we're the solar system around him. We're like, ready, we're like, is he here? All right, let's do it, you know? Or he'll be like, some days he'll be like, I'm already acting. I'm already acting. And then the crew has to be like, ugh, ugh, you know? Uh, but it just depends on how he's feeling. But he's like, you know, he's earned it. I, he. Sometimes I'll just look at him and they've they've wiggled him into doing press, you know? And I'll be like, he was at the cast party for like Indiana Jones.

• 46:51Speaker 00

  He's at the cast party for What Lies Beneath. Like, he was like, he was at the cast party for Witness. You know, this is how long he's been.

• 46:57Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  Acting, you know, he doesn't have to do any of it, really. And so I feel very lucky.

• 47:02Michelle Obama?

  But you feel like you're you're holding your own. I mean, you toe to toe with.

• 47:07Speaker 00

  Thank you. I have no, you know, I have no choice. Why am I gonna let Harrison Ford do gobble me up on screen?

• 47:13Michelle Obama?

  No.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. No, I'm competitive, you know? I don't do sports, but I like to think I'm athletic and I'm very competitive. And one thing I'm gonna do is make the scene mine. I always, my, have you seen Annie Hall? Have you guys seen Annie Hall? There's this lobster scene in Annie Hall that's totally, you can tell, like, an improvised spontaneous moment. And they're giggling and you're just like, wow, like Diane is giggling. And you're like, this is everything I want in my career is is like an improvised moment. I want every time I do something on camera for it to feel like it's happening for the first time. And, you know, I wanna, if Harrison has an idea, I want a yes and and be like,

• 47:58Speaker 00

  I want to make my screen partner look good. That's a big part of being a supporting character, too, is like,

• 48:05Speaker 00

  I I'm gonna put my oxygen mask on and then I'm gonna help you. How do we make this happen? And how do we make this scene look alive? So for Gabby especially, the character I play was such a heart led person. I'm always trying to be like, okay, now what feels, how can we have a lobster moment? What feels spontaneous? I want it to feel like you you you look at it and you're like, oh, only Jessica could do that. That's kind of my goal, I think. But yes, casting is hard. There's no, there's no, like, you really have to get people to try and think of you, but I can't force it. So in the meantime, when I'm off and not working, I like to sew. I have hobbies and I have a full life. That's kind of the the goal. Like, I act, but I want a really full life.

• 48:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 48:47Speaker 00

  That's the thing.

• 48:47Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:49Michelle Obama?

  Well, you and that affects your work. I mean, you start seeing these actors who just, they become other people and it changes the way they show up.

• 49:01Speaker 00

  It's really easy because when you're an actor, you're on set, people can get you anything you want. You're like a baby, basically. Everybody knows where you are. They're like, do you need something? I can get it for you. And you become this weird baby person. And it brings a lot of mental illness. It does. And I get it. Like, I really want my union to have more health services, specifically for actors, because you have, you're, you know, it's so mean, our business is so mean. The casting doesn't make sense sometimes. You're fighting for these parts. It's very small. And, you know, there's, you know, there's the white guy on set, there's number one on the call sheet. You don't know if he's doing method. You don't know what his thing is. Is he gonna make it easy for you? Is he gonna make it hard? You might still have to kiss them.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Like, you know, you don't, it's its own thing. And it is like, a really, really kind of baby job. Like, there's so many important jobs, but acting is like, it is the most baby, like, "Look at me, I'm feeling emotions." Like, it's so embarrassing, actually. It's a really embarrassing job. So when I see guys talking about the craft, like, it's like, "Shut up, shut your ass up, you crybaby. You just got paid to cry on camera. It's cool, it's a craft, but it is, you're not a surgeon, you're not a doctor."

• 50:18Michelle Obama?

  It's like, you're not saving lives.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  You're not saving lives.

• 50:21Michelle Obama?

  You didn't fix the ozone layer.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  You're not. Our job is elective.

• 50:24Craig Robinson?

  Jessica, everybody can't do it. Like, of somebody like me, I fascinated consuming acting.

• 50:33Speaker 00

  Really? You like, you like the good acting?

• 50:36Craig Robinson?

  I like to watch, and sometimes, even if it's not good, I don't mind sort of watching people attempt to do things. It's like a sport.

• 50:44Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 50:44Craig Robinson?

  It's like, I appreciate the fact that you've had to work

• 50:48Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 50:48Craig Robinson?

  all of this and get up there and then mess it up.

• 50:51Speaker 00

  Me too. I, I like a medium experience. Like, I think online, people were like, "This movie didn't blow my balls off." And you're like, you want your blows, your balls blown off every time you watch something? You can just have a perfectly medium time.

• 51:05Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  And it's good. Like, bring back a medium time. I think it's kind of destroying art.

• 51:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  Or a medium, like, a medium less, like, that's okay. Like, it's fine. I think it makes studios take less of a chance on art. Because everybody needs to have their life changed every time. No, we have to try and fail. It is a goofy job, where if you do it right, you get an insane amount of money for a tiny amount of work. And I'm calling that out because

• 51:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 51:31Speaker 00

  a lot of actors walk around like they're, you know, changing the world. And it's like, I guess, but this is art that we, it's a privilege.

• 51:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  So, yeah. But I do love good acting. My partner knows, like, if I see good acting, he'll just turn to me like, do you want to rewind that? And I go, yeah, they're cooking. Like, I'll rewind things when I see it.

• 51:51Michelle Obama?

  Your partner knows good acting?

• 51:53Speaker 00

  I think so. I think he does, just from, like, us being together. It's like, like, I want to see it. Like, I want to see cooking. And I, I think there's nothing, but that's what I like about reality shows, like Real Housewives.

• 52:06Michelle Obama?

  You want to watch steaks. Okay, Craig, listen.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  You want to watch acting. These women are acting.

• 52:11Michelle Obama?

  They

• 52:12Craig Robinson?

  That's right.

• 52:13Speaker 00

  They're like, you look at me weird, like, it's like

• 52:15Craig Robinson?

  That is my point to my sister, that it is not reality TV. No, it's not reality. It's acting.

• 52:22Michelle Obama?

  Nobody's said, nobody's arguing. I'm not saying, this is so real, and that's why. And it's like, oh, my God, it's just, it's entertaining.

• 52:30Speaker 00

  It's funny. I think it's like when Andy Warhol came out with pop culture and people were like, what is this? This is a can of soup. I think it's that. I think really amazing things happen in reality TV. And I think it's really important and it shows us something about ourselves as a society. And it should be watched, it should be studied, it should be analyzed. Like, reality TV is important.

• 52:51Michelle Obama?

  You were breaking down characters, behaviors, things you've seen before. I mean, I think it's also, look, I tease him because what you said about acting, I say all the time about sports. You know, I mean, it's, you know, societally, we have decided what type of entertainment is relevant or, or good or worthwhile, right? And it's like, Reality TV is it's it's sociology. It's empathy. It's analyzing behavior. I mean, it's like the it's it's like the Emmys of like, girl, let's break down that conversation.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 53:28Michelle Obama?

  Which is very female.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 53:30Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 53:30Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 53:31Michelle Obama?

  But what gets? What do we spend money on? What gets the awards? Somebody throwing a ball. It's like, OK, you're good at throw. You you can jump high, but that's what you that's all you do.

• 53:43Speaker 00

  Totally. You've been trained.

• 53:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. This is what you've done, so you should be good at it. And and you're tall.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  Totally. You won the genetic lottery.

• 53:52Michelle Obama?

  Genetics, right? You you you fit the the bill. You're a gymnast because you're 4'11". You know, I tried. I tried. That's another thing tall people can't do. A backflip. Couldn't do it.

• 54:04Speaker 00

  Too much going around. It's too much going around the mountain when it comes. Yeah. Because you do the first part of the backflip. You're like, that was a lot. But you gotta bring the legs. Go, they're long legs.

• 54:14Michelle Obama?

  All of them.

• 54:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, no.

• 54:16Michelle Obama?

  So I do think it's very gendered. I I make this argument only because so many people make the opposite argument when it's something they don't understand.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 54:26Michelle Obama?

  You know, that that's the only reason I make the argument. It's mainly to men to say, wait, wait, wait a minute. Right?

• 54:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:34Michelle Obama?

  You know, what you like is only, you know, credible because men have decided it is.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  Right. That's right.

• 54:42Michelle Obama?

  That's why.

• 54:43Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 54:43Michelle Obama?

  You know?

• 54:44Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 54:44Michelle Obama?

  Not because it is objectively. It's it's a skill for sure. It's a really cool skill, too.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 54:50Michelle Obama?

  You know, whatever the sport is. Anybody who becomes a master at something they do, it's fascinating to watch.

• 54:57Speaker 00

  I know. I like it, too. I I feel like that's why I like talking to people about anything, really. If you, especially when you travel and you're like, oh, you're a you're a master shoe shiner. Like, tell me more, genuinely.

• 55:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 00

  What kind of, you know, what's it like when somebody has smelly feet? You're shoe shining. What's that about?

• 55:13Michelle Obama?

  How do you deal with it?

• 55:13Speaker 00

  How do you deal?

• 55:14Michelle Obama?

  How do you cope?

• 55:14Speaker 00

  Do you ever regular? What do you guys talk about? Do you shine your own shoes or are you over it? What's the best kind of shoe to shine? You know, like, really? Like, I really care about that.

• 55:23Michelle Obama?

  We can go in.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  Totally. I think people, um. That's why people are endlessly fascinating. And it's what you choose to find interesting that matters. And I do think reality TV, it's like you should, you could. My dream, and I've said this quite a bit, is toward the end of my life, when I'm a professor somewhere, they're like an honorary professor, teach a reality studies class. And like, what, what does it say?

• 55:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:46Speaker 00

  What do the Kardashians say? What does it reflect back to us as a culture? What does it mean? You know, that, that.

• 55:52Michelle Obama?

  What do you think it means these days?

• 55:55Speaker 00

  Well, there's so much reality TV. It's hard to choose just one thing.

• 55:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:59Speaker 00

  It's a valid medium and it's doing really, really well. But it does show us like Love Island showed us a lot. Did you ever watch, did you watch the last six seasons of Love Island?

• 56:09Speaker 00

  You're my friend.

• 56:12Speaker 00

  You are my friend.

• 56:12Michelle Obama?

  The girls introduced, I didn't really know about it. I would pass over it.

• 56:28Michelle Obama?

  And then one day, it was this one summer, or was it COVID? I don't know what, no, it wasn't COVID because it wasn't on. But the girls were into it and it was the thing, it came on every day. And I was like, oh, I was, I was judgy. I was like.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course.

• 56:43Michelle Obama?

  How could watching these kids in these bathing suits become a thing? And then they were like, just sit down and watch with us, mom. And I couldn't stop.

• 56:51Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 56:52Michelle Obama?

  I couldn't stop.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 56:53Michelle Obama?

  And there was a discussion, deep discussion after every episode.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 56:57Michelle Obama?

  We'd have to stop.

• 56:58Speaker 00

  I mean, especially this last season, there was a lot of like race politics that came into play. There were fandoms that came into play. There was like somebody like, you know, as beautiful as Alandria, you're like, am I taking crazy pills here? Am I taking crazy? This is like one of the most stunning women I've ever seen. But when you're in this sort of fishbowl of like people whose beauty standards are one way, you're just like, oh, this is really, really weird. And then that's why I love, it's like when she got out of the house, it's like she's going to fashion. It's like what she deserves. But it did spawn a lot of conversation over fandoms and race and the United States. And then the season before that, there. With some weird like Dominican American stuff like it was like it really highlighted.

• 57:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 57:43Speaker 00

  It it's like a weird fishbowl and it brought up some racial politics like of like heteronormative romance in a way that I think is really interesting and it is the easy it is lazy to me for people to count that out because it's reality TV. There's so much there.

• 57:59Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  But um that's why I think it's like really important. 90 Day Fiance is its own thing that's saying a lot of crazy stuff about immigration and you know, a lot of times I'm rooting for the women trying to get in this country that I know in their home country make a dollar an hour.

• 58:13Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  And they're like talking to this old guy and they're like a hot young thing trying to get into the United States. I'm like, yeah, yeah, get away of life. Shoot your shot. Shoot your shot, get away of life. You know, it's like, I don't know, there's just so much, but.

• 58:25Michelle Obama?

  We've got our viewer question.

• 58:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. Okay, we have we have a question.

• 58:30Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 58:30Speaker 00

  Let me help. Okay, let me help you.

• 58:32Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, this is from Benedetta and Benedetta does not want us to know where she's from.

• 58:39Speaker 03

  At 37, as a black woman, I am finding myself at a bit of a crossroads. I've recently graduated from a leadership program and while I've been fortunate to land interviews and receive great feedback, I'm struggling to close the opportunities. It's incredibly frustrating, especially as I find myself applying for roles I know I can excel in. There's a lingering uncertainty that I can't quite shake. What more can I do to make the leap into a role that truly aligns with my aspirations? I know that career journeys aren't linear, but I'm reaching out because I'd love to hear your thoughts on staying motivated during this process. How do you keep pushing through the uncertainty without settling when the

• 59:20Speaker 03

  pressure to take anything that comes your way is so real? Your advice would mean the world to me. And that is from Benedetta, who is 37.

• 59:30Speaker 00

  It's really hard because what I could have used and what I could use when I was an actor is like, sometimes people just aren't gonna hire you because you're black. And like, you feel like you're taking crazy pills. You're like, oh, I can't get this job. Oh, I can't. And you do all these things and you see other people get it. And maybe you're more qualified and like, it's like, you're not crazy, actually. Like, sometimes you're just not gonna get it.

• 59:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Because you're black. We are, the history of our country makes it so that we are, it's actually harder for us to get jobs. And that's very real and like, sit with that, I think, for a second and that's okay. But then also, it's like, okay to be disappointed, I feel like. There's that, too. It's like, feeling like, you know, feeling like you're disappointed in the system comes with being the human experience, I feel like. But also, keep, you gotta keep going. And make sure you fill your life with things that you enjoy, that remind you of who you are. Like, whether it's, you know, for me, crafting, making sure you laugh with your friends, doing things that fill your tank is really important.

• 1:00:37Speaker 00

  Even when you get the job I know you're gonna get, it's like, make sure you fill your tank because work isn't the only thing. It's like, you're, you have a whole, full life and you are a person outside of this job. And make sure you hold on to that because it'll make the, the stress of not working in the field that you wanna, like, work in, a little easier, I think. And what, what do you guys think?

• 1:01:01Michelle Obama?

  You know, I, it's the, how do you stay focused? I think sometimes you need to be ready to take an alternative path.

• 1:01:16Michelle Obama?

  Because it, it depends on what your circumstances are, you know? I mean, I wouldn't tell somebody, just hold on to your dream regardless of anything because you might not be able to do it. And, and flexibility and adaptability is, is part of life, you know? I mean, you don't, I, I don't wanna discourage anybody from pursuing their dreams, but you gotta eat, you know? A, a good part of happiness and feeling sustained is like, I'm taking care of my family, paying my bills. And sometimes, you know, look, This, this whole notion of having the career that makes you happy and fulfills you, I think is a relatively new goal.

• 1:01:57Michelle Obama?

  Our parents took jobs and they worked and they did what they had to do to pay the bills. I don't think my father, who was a stationary fireman at the water filtration plant all his life, who was an artist. He was a gifted painter and sculptor. He couldn't do it because he had us. And so he made the call that I'm gonna work for the city, make a good salary, send my kids to college. You know, most of, of, of people in life are doing things that don't bring them passion. You know, it's like, so they find it in other things.

• 1:02:35Michelle Obama?

  And I think, um, I, I would say, keep an open mind to what is really possible to, uh, and be ready to pivot, you know? And try not to be too disappointed with the pivot. Because that, it's how you feel about the pivot sometimes that can determine it all. If you feel like, I gave up everything and I can't be happy now and, or I failed because I didn't do this thing in the way that I thought it was done. You know, that's all in our heads and our hearts, you know? I mean, you, you know, it is not a statement of anything other than maybe you just didn't, it didn't work out.

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  At that time.

• 1:03:21Michelle Obama?

  At that time. And sometimes things don't work out. But don't let that block your happiness or define you. Keep, keep going if you can, but be realistic if you can. You know, um, maybe.

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're also always surprised. Like, Steve Jobs has that, I'm really bad at quoting people, but I understand the essence of it. That's what I remember. Steve Jobs has that really cool thing about connecting the dots and like. You you want to do one thing, but then you wind up doing something else. And then you wind up doing something else. But at the end, it all kind of came together. Especially for him in making, you know, this this Apple product. And it's like, you would be surprised, the the route that you take to get to where you want. I've found that's been true in my in my life and my career, which is the only thing I can really speak to. And then the other thing that you reminded me of is thinking of your thoughts as trains. Like, I had a really good therapist once tell me, like, your thoughts are coming and going. You're on a subway platform, the trains are passing. And you can choose to get on the train or you can choose not to.

• 1:04:19Speaker 00

  So when you're seeing this train, that's like, I'm a failure because I don't have the job I want right now. You can choose to get on the train or you can acknowledge it and see it and have it pass. You know, but that that reminded me of that of like, just because you think that you're a failure today because you don't have this job today, doesn't mean that that's actually what's true.

• 1:04:36Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:38Craig Robinson?

  Well, for Benedetta, from someone who has pivoted quite a bit in their career, I would say, do not be afraid to begin at the beginning. And that's where I think a lot of people get hung up on because they want to pivot into an equal or higher position. To your point about you're not going to always find something because you gotta you gotta eat, you gotta live, you gotta raise your family. You really have to think about starting from scratch. And that might mean, hey, I want to, I want to be a basketball coach.

• 1:05:18Craig Robinson?

  And you take a salary cut and you do something else on the side while you're creating this new opportunity for yourself. I I I I I agree with Mish where this is a new thing where where people are actually actively trying to find the thing that they love to do. Because it feels like people are just absolutely so unhappy in their current situation. But I don't think it's, I I think people have been thinking about this for a long time. They just haven't had the wherewithal to do it. And having done it a couple of times myself, you just have to get past the fear of starting from the beginning. And then the other thing that I would say is,

• 1:06:04Craig Robinson?

  The Benadette is thirty seven, you said? So she's young enough where if you can keep your lifestyle at a manageable place, the, I think the reason that I, I could make that first jump from corporate American investment banking to coaching was I never took my lifestyle up to the big time bond trader level because I was always afraid that it wouldn't last. If you can, if you can manage to do that, it makes it easy to pivot.

• 1:06:41Speaker 00

  It makes it easier.

• 1:06:43Craig Robinson?

  Easier, easier to pivot.

• 1:06:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I think that this is separate from her, but like, there is something where I say to much, much younger, much younger, I'm talking like, they're like eighteen, nineteen, not to you, Benadette, you know, you're my girl, but where I go, you ain't gonna like your job all the time.

• 1:06:59Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  You ain't gonna like it.

• 1:07:01Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  Someday, you, you not supposed to. Someday, you gonna work people you don't like. You can't just quit. You gotta, you gotta have a job. You gotta pay the bills. Like, you're just not gonna like it. So?

• 1:07:10Michelle Obama?

  That's right. No, that's absolutely right.

• 1:07:12Speaker 00

  So?

• 1:07:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Speaker 00

  That's not how it works.

• 1:07:15Craig Robinson?

  But you gotta admit, when you're doing something you like, it's easier on the days where you hate that.

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  But you gotta work for it. But I mean, even this job, I love my job. Someday, I, I'm not a morning person. I gotta get up. You just, was what we do. You, you just got to. There's always something you're not gonna like. And so this idea that you have to like it all the time, I'm like, nah.

• 1:07:35Michelle Obama?

  Well, I'm living within, living below your means, living within your means. I'm, I'm telling young people that all the time. I mean, that's, that's a key to freedom, you know?

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 1:07:48Michelle Obama?

  Well, Jessica.

• 1:07:50Speaker 00

  This has been cool. I had a blast. I had a blast. You guys were lovely.

• 1:07:54Michelle Obama?

  I hope you're not exhausted.

• 1:07:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's like, you're gonna get in the car, oh my God, I want to see a video. It's like, it's like, I'm powering down, powering down. Jessica's off. I'm gonna unpin my hair. I'm gonna do it in the car. My driver knows that's what's happening. Sometimes I'll, as soon as I get in the car, I take my wig off sometimes.

• 1:08:11Michelle Obama?

  It's like, goodbye.

• 1:08:12Speaker 00

  Totally. When I get in the black car?

• 1:08:14Michelle Obama?

  It's like, thank you.

• 1:08:15Speaker 00

  They know, but like, I had a blast. This is great. I'll do it again anytime, but thank you for having me. It's been, I wasn't worried.

• 1:08:22Craig Robinson?

  Thanks for being here.

• 1:08:23Michelle Obama?

  You have, it's so much fun watching you.

• 1:08:25Speaker 00

  No, thank you.

• 1:08:26Michelle Obama?

  And you are killing it.

• 1:08:28Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:08:28Michelle Obama?

  And just keep it up, girl. Represent us tall chicks out in the world. Keep opening up the opportunities for tall black women to do whatever we want.

• 1:08:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:39Michelle Obama?

  You were representing well.

• 1:08:40Speaker 00

  Thank you, same to you.

• 1:08:41Michelle Obama?

  And give your mom our love, even though, you know.

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  Especially Craig.

• 1:08:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, whatever.

• 1:08:47Craig Robinson?

  Give her a hug for me.

• 1:08:48Speaker 00

  I will, she'll love it. She's gonna watch this and she's gonna love it. She's gonna be happy that I did that. Thank you.

• 1:08:53Michelle Obama?

  You did that thing.

• 1:08:54Craig Robinson?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:08:55Michelle Obama?

  Thank you, sweetie.

• 1:08:58Craig Robinson?

  Thanks again to our friends at Progressive Insurance for sponsoring this episode. For more information, visit progressive.com slash open the house.