Stop Chasing The Shiny Things with Jamie Lee Curtis

This week, Oscar-winning actress Jamie Lee Curtis comes on IMO to talk about her anti-Hollywood Hollywood upbringing, what she thought of her role in Everything Everywhere All at Once, and her real thoughts on awards season. Plus, she shares a profound personal update. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I've been waiting patiently to do my thing.

• 0:05Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, biding your time.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  And I have, I have suited up and shown up for lots of different work. I did commercials when no, but I mean, I, I won an Oscar and I sold yogurt that makes you shit. For six years.

• 0:32Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Ship.

• 0:38Craig Robinson?

  Hey, you.

• 0:39Michelle Obama?

  Craig Robinson.

• 0:40Craig Robinson?

  Michelle Obama, how you doing?

• 0:42Michelle Obama?

  Good, always good to be with you.

• 0:44Craig Robinson?

  Oh, it's so nice to be here.

• 0:47Michelle Obama?

  It's been raining a bit.

• 0:49Craig Robinson?

  You know, it has been and you, speaking of rain, so you know, we had the kids here. They're all gone. Kelly's gone. I'm, I'm now by myself again.

• 1:01Michelle Obama?

  Oh, by myself.

• 1:03Craig Robinson?

  Enjoying, yeah, sitting outside of my Airbnb because I'm in.

• 1:08Michelle Obama?

  Did you sit outside it?

• 1:09Craig Robinson?

  No, it's been raining.

• 1:10Michelle Obama?

  So you've been trapped alone.

• 1:11Craig Robinson?

  I've been, I've been inside, but I haven't had zero to do because my Airbnb has a pool table.

• 1:18Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:19Craig Robinson?

  So I've been working on my game.

• 1:20Michelle Obama?

  Have you really?

• 1:21Craig Robinson?

  I've been working on it.

• 1:22Michelle Obama?

  Is it a good, solid pool table?

• 1:24Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. Oh, no, it's a real pool table. It's a real pool table. And I realized that I haven't played pool in forever, so I'm terrible. But it's, it gives me something to do when I'm there by myself.

• 1:35Michelle Obama?

  But you also said that this is a famous place that you're staying this time.

• 1:39Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, it's, uh, it's Orson Welles' home.

• 1:43Michelle Obama?

  The former home.

• 1:44Craig Robinson?

  Yes, yes. A lot of historical stuff inside and.

• 1:48Michelle Obama?

  Do you know if it's been passed down? Like, do they, does Airbnb give you a bit of a history? Did you know that?

• 1:54Craig Robinson?

  No.

• 1:55Michelle Obama?

  Because how did you know that it was Orson Welles?

• 1:57Craig Robinson?

  I didn't know until I walked into the place. So when, when, uh, are, are the folks at Airbnb give me a couple to choose from and.

• 2:07Craig Robinson?

  Typically, I choose the one that's closest to the office.

• 2:11Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:11Craig Robinson?

  And that's what I did. I didn't really do much research. And then I walk in and there's memorabilia everywhere. It's really cool, really cool. For, for a Turner Classic Movie guy.

• 2:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:22Craig Robinson?

  It's pretty cool.

• 2:22Michelle Obama?

  It's like you're in heaven.

• 2:23Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 2:24Michelle Obama?

  You are in heaven.

• 2:25Craig Robinson?

  I am in heaven.

• 2:25Michelle Obama?

  Well, speaking of the classics, our, our guest today is a classic beauty, uh, personality, all the above. It's, it's, it's gonna be a great episode, y'all, but Craig is gonna do the formal introduction.

• 2:41Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I'm gonna do the formal introduction, uh, for Jamie Lee Curtis, who is an actress known for her roles in many iconic films, including Halloween, the Halloween franchise, A Fish Called Wanda, Freaky Friday, Knives Out, and most recently, The Last Showgirl and Freakier Friday. In, in 2023, she won the Oscar for Best Supporting Actress for her role in Everything Everywhere All at Once. And we got to say hello, and I am so looking forward to spending time with Jamie Lee Curtis.

• 3:15Michelle Obama?

  Jamie!

• 3:16Craig Robinson?

  Yes, you go to her first.

• 3:23Craig Robinson?

  Welcome. So happy you're here. Hi, baby.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  I wasn't here before.

• 3:27Michelle Obama?

  Welcome to IMO.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  I like it. Hi. That was a nice introduction. It's always weird for me.

• 3:33Craig Robinson?

  I'm sure it is.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  It's weird. Because you said the Halloween franchise. I was like, it wasn't a franchise. It was a 17-day shoot in the, in Pasadena and Hollywood for $300,000 in 1978. It wasn't a franchise. It was a gig that was so great because my name was on every page. You know what I mean?

• 3:55Michelle Obama?

  That was the new thing. That was the thing about it.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  For me at that time, at 19, I was like, are you kidding?

• 4:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  So it's funny that it's, I, you would listen, I'm sure you both have that. Where you hear, as we're, I'm older now, you hear things and you go, really? That's me? That's my life?

• 4:16Michelle Obama?

  I totally agree.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  I'm like, really?

• 4:17Michelle Obama?

  And you want people to, it's like, okay, okay, that's enough. That's enough.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, it just doesn't, you know why? Because I don't relate to it.

• 4:24Michelle Obama?

  That's right. That's right.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  I honestly don't relate to any of it.

• 4:28Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 4:28Speaker 00

  I only relate to sort of the immediate. Moment here with you. I was at Children's Hospital, Los Angeles before I came here.

• 4:36Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  That became an immediate moment to me. I do not look back.

• 4:42Craig Robinson?

  But it speaks to your, it speaks to your character too.

• 4:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I was gonna say.

• 4:47Craig Robinson?

  You're not taking yourself like.

• 4:50Michelle Obama?

  That's clear the second you meet, someone meets you. I mean, that was like, oh, she's real.

• 4:57Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 4:58Michelle Obama?

  You know, I mean, she's, she's a real person, a real woman.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  But that's so strange to me because it's a, I understand that the industry, that the whole concept is not real, that it's that magical, well, you're talking about Orson Welles. I mean, that idea of you're a Turner Classic Movie nerd.

• 5:20Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  That lore of what that is in Hollywood and the speakeasies.

• 5:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 5:26Speaker 00

  And yes, I know some of those houses in Hancock Park that had the speakeasy built into behind the wall. But I live the life of a human being, so I'm a chop wood, carry water kind of gal.

• 5:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  So I've never understood that what, the idea of not being real, of having some fake

• 5:49Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  thing, it would make me crazy.

• 5:53Michelle Obama?

  Well, a lot of people would say you are the, you know, you were the daughter of Hollywood, right?

• 5:58Speaker 00

  On some level, sure.

• 5:59Michelle Obama?

  But that's what people would say, what do you think kept you grounded?

• 6:04Speaker 00

  Janet Leigh.

• 6:05Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 6:06Speaker 00

  My mother was from Stockton, California. Her name was Jeanette Helen Morrison. She lived in a garage with her parents. And she became, you know, it's too long of a story, but she was discovered by Norma Shear, silent film star, who, there was a photo, long story. There was a photograph of my mother at a motel where my grandfather was the manager of a ski motel at a ski resort, in a, not ski resort, at a ski place. And Norma Shear was married to a skier. And they stayed at this motel and saw the picture when she was checking out and said, who's that? And he said, that's my daughter. She said, may I have the picture? Took it to Hollywood. They called for her.

• 6:49Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  She became, they, she became an actress, changed her name to Janet Leigh and starred in a movie with Van Johnson. Right away in nineteen, whatever year it was, nineteen forty-eight, I believe. And that began her career, but she was from a really rough childhood in Stockton, California. She raised me.

• 7:12Craig Robinson?

  I feel like I'm watching Turner Classic right now. Because, see, my sister doesn't know that you read, you, you, you did this on, on Turner Classic. To introduce.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  The whole story.

• 7:22Craig Robinson?

  The whole story of your mom and I'm, I've got goosebumps right now, listening to you.

• 7:28Speaker 00

  You have to remember, that was my mother, my mother was Jeanette Helen Morrison from Stockton, California. My father was Bernie Schwartz from New York City. Now Bernie Schwartz became Tony Curtis.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  He adopted the fake life.

• 7:48Michelle Obama?

  Got it.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Now, he did it with spirit, he did it with some style. He bought mansions and art collections and had a kind of grandiosity about him. Was charming.

• 8:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  Uh, if he walked in a room, he would be a little bit like, hello. And he would walk to tell, hello, I'm Tony. And you know, people would just be like, oh, and he lived a little bit like a prince.

• 8:15Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  So he lived this fake reality. Of course, died a drug addict. My mother lived a very real life and stayed real her whole life. Her book that she wrote was called, There Really Was a Hollywood. Which is, tells you everything that for her, that idea of there was something magical that she then entered. Um, I grew up in Los Angeles, California on a dirt road with, with a donkey in a stable that wasn't ours next door, you know what I mean? I grew up a Southern California kid.

• 8:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  Like you're talking about kid, like I grew up. Not in a fancy life at all.

• 8:59Michelle Obama?

  Right, right.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  And so my mother is the...

• 9:03Michelle Obama?

  Were you aware of who your mother was?

• 9:05Speaker 00

  You know what? You become aware of it. I guarantee you, I don't know about your family life, Craig. I didn't do my homework. Oh, that's okay. I was in Chicago yesterday. So I did not do my homework, but I don't... Well, I'm telling you the truth.

• 9:20Michelle Obama?

  I hear you, yeah.

• 9:21Speaker 00

  I'm sure that your daughters have had to deal with the fact that people know who your parents are before you walk in a room.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Or as you walk in the room. That's the first thing that is said. I understood that to some degree as I became...

• 9:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  You know, a teen.

• 9:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:45Speaker 00

  I don't think as a kid I knew anything. But I think as a teen... That's about right, yeah. You... You understand there's something. But remember, there was no internet.

• 9:56Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  There was television. My parents were movie stars, not television stars per se.

• 10:01Michelle Obama?

  They weren't coming into your house.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  And they didn't... Their movies didn't show on television. So it wasn't like I... Like, they were in the movies and then the movies went away. Oh, sorry. And then the movies left town, or whatever their movie was. And then they went on to the next one. So their fame, their presence just became attached to me, but not because I had any clue as to really what that meant, what they did.

• 10:30Michelle Obama?

  I'm interested, because I think, you know, I am fascinated with parenthood and, you know, how people get things right and what, you know... And I'm just, you know... What did your mom do right? In terms of your day to day, the messages that she sent to you that helped keep you grounded?

• 10:55Speaker 00

  I think it was just the way she lived and just the way she interacted with people. I think she never lost that sense that she was, that it was a miracle that she became Janet Leigh. And that impoverished childhood. She had a lot of sadness in her family life. Her father took his life. When she was first married with Tony Curtis, her father took his life. She had a lot of sadness. I think there was obviously alcoholism in the family. So she had secrets. I think, I think though, just that that was her.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  She was the nicest person. She would talk to every person. And I think that just really, it wasn't, it wasn't a specific thing. I mean, we grew up, as I said, in a very normalized life. We had, you know, early, early bedtimes and chores and bikes. And, you know, played outside. And neighborhood friends. Neighborhoods and, you know, a lot of fantasy play, but that's just what kids do. So I, I think it was just the normalized life that she didn't, you know, but

• 12:12Speaker 00

  I certainly didn't come up with this. Someone way smarter than me came up with it, that the being a parent,

• 12:24Speaker 00

  that if you're successful, it's the only thing you're successful at that ends in separation. Like everything else, the whole success is based on the Get to keep it, right. And holding it and, and clutching it.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  The goal of a parent is to actually separate into separate ideologies, separate physical lives, and hopefully there's nice interactions, but people are allowed to have their own minds. Because having your own mind is dangerous. Or to some, it's perceived as dangerous. Well, it's dangerous because you're challenging just through the idea of having your own ideas is going to challenge the status quo. And that, to me, is the great gift of my evolution. Is that my mother's gift? I don't know. I don't know if my mother Would love the mind I have.

• 13:26Speaker 00

  Do you know what I mean? Like, I may have challenged some of the... Like, I guarantee you, right? And I can tell you right now, if my mother had been alive during everything, everywhere, all at once, she would not have liked. I mean, I don't think she would have liked the movie. And I'm not speaking ill of my beautiful mother. I think that would have challenged every norm. Because in her years as an actress...

• 13:51Michelle Obama?

  Being an actress meant a facade.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  Very much about what you looked like and how women were perceived in their bodies. And I think my mother would have... It would have been very challenging.

• 14:09Craig Robinson?

  Hey, Mish. You ever notice how even tiny choices can feel really personal? What we buy at the grocery store, the little preferences we don't want to budge on, it's not random. It's how we take care of ourselves and the people we love. You and I both know our family has opinions about everything. And somehow, those little choices end up saying a lot about who we are and how we care for people. You know about me and sardines, right?

• 14:43Michelle Obama?

  What about you and sardines?

• 14:44Craig Robinson?

  You don't remember this. I was hoping I'd catch you off guard with this. I love sardines. It's my comfort snack.

• 14:52Michelle Obama?

  I remember our dad loved sardines.

• 14:54Craig Robinson?

  And that's exactly right. And I enjoy eating them on a club cracker. But you remember him eating them on saltines?

• 15:01Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 15:01Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 15:02Michelle Obama?

  With mustard.

• 15:04Craig Robinson?

  With mustard. That's exactly right. And I don't do the mustard anymore.

• 15:08Michelle Obama?

  Hmm, you're not following tradition.

• 15:10Craig Robinson?

  No, but I am also not following the saltine crackers. Do you remember the fact that we couldn't use Ritz crackers? Because we had to save those for special occasions. Yeah. Well, now I got all the Ritz crackers I want. But it tasted really good. And he let me try it, and I loved it. And now, my kids prefer their chips and cookies. But it really feels good when Kelly grocery shops and she remembers to grab sardines just for me.

• 15:45Michelle Obama?

  And they're good for you.

• 15:47Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah. So if I'm ever craving sardines...

• 15:52Craig Robinson?

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• 16:37Craig Robinson?

  Thanks to Shipt for sponsoring this segment.

• 16:45Michelle Obama?

  I think we're probably the first, the beginning of the first generation of women who is pushing against the norm, the standard, the way women were raised to and conditioned to think about themselves, think about themselves in connection with the rest of the world, their place as women in the family.

• 17:07Speaker 00

  Because it was all orchestrated by men.

• 17:09Michelle Obama?

  Yes, exactly.

• 17:10Speaker 00

  So as soon as women started to understand that they could have their own mind, they could challenge job equality, pay equality.

• 17:21Michelle Obama?

  There's people who don't like that.

• 17:22Speaker 00

  Billie Jean, effing King.

• 17:24Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 17:25Speaker 00

  I mean, just the way she challenged.

• 17:28Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  You know, that's...

• 17:31Michelle Obama?

  And it's a scary proposition to some of the men that are used to being in complete power.

• 17:36Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 17:37Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it's like, don't have your own mind, have mine.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  Well, that's... So what happens is we become, we become our own people. Because I'm not Tony Curtis.

• 17:47Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  I don't walk around, "Hello, I'm Jamie. How are you?" You know? But I'm flirty.

• 17:54Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:56Speaker 00

  Like he was. Mm hmm. You know, wicked flirt. Yes. So you, you, you know. You develop pieces of. Yes, you, you, you make your own life through the trial and error and experience of others and, and a lot of error. Mm hmm. Um, so I don't think, I think getting sober gave me a lot of that. I've been married, gave me a lot of it. Being a parent gave me a lot of it. Um, obviously, big time, having.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  Hate this word, it's just awful. The word I don't like is accomplishment. It's like, it's hard for me. Mm hmm. So I am having a lot of external accomplishments at a very late age. Yeah.

• 18:48Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  And when you asked, what was the sort of causation? What, what, what were the factors? Yeah. I've been waiting patiently to do my thing. Yeah, yeah. Biding your time. And I have, I have so suited up and shown up for lots of different work. I did commercials when no, but I mean, I, I won an Oscar and I sold yogurt that makes you shit for six years. And it's a good laugh line. Yeah. I use it a lot. Mm hmm.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  But you have to remember, I did commercials, I was twenty six, twenty, twenty seven, maybe twenty eight.

• 19:41Speaker 00

  I had done a fish called Wanda. Mm hmm. One day my phone rang and they said, hey, uh, Hertz rent a car. Somebody called me and said, hey, they're looking for a female business executive to run through airports. Yeah. We, you've been asked to do it. Mm hmm.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  What? Mm hmm. Why, why did they understand that I can sell something? Mm hmm. I don't know. I was an actress. I wasn't Jamie. I wasn't. Yeah. I hadn't established my Jamie dumb. Mm hmm. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I just was a young mom, a young act, married person. And I had been in a couple of movies. Now, you can imagine when I was offered to do commercials for a probiotic yogurt that helps regulate your digestive system with Bifidus Regularis. Oh, you remember. Dude, I remember every word I've ever said in any movie, ever, anywhere. Wow. Every word. Wow.

• 20:44Craig Robinson?

  Really?

• 20:45Speaker 00

  Everything. But my point is, I guarantee you, someone was like, really? You're gonna do yogurt commercials that helps you poop? And then it became parodied on SNL. I remember. And then Kristen Wiig did the parody. That's when you kind of go, oh, okay. That's interesting. Now we're talking. Cause like now you're in the mix. Yeah. You know what I mean? When you do a commercial and someone parodies it on television? You become a part of the culture. On SNL? Yes. You're now part of a cultural thing. So all of a sudden, that, that has never been a problem for me. But that wasn't your plan. I hadn't, I've never had a plan, Michelle Obama.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  Did you have, well, maybe you did. I kinda did. I did up until. You're a total effing G. I mean, you're just like G with a capital, big ass G, man. So yeah, I'm sure you had a plan. I didn't have a plan. I can spell plan.

• 21:45Craig Robinson?

  Well, since, since you didn't have a plan, when you were younger, I read you wanted to be a cop.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  Well, I, by the way, Craig.

• 21:53Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 21:54Speaker 00

  I got into college because my mother was the most famous person that had ever gone to the college. And like let her in.

• 22:02Speaker 00

  My application that had an 840 combined SAT score, and I believe a C minus was probably graded on a curve to give me a C minus GPA. I don't know what it was. Somebody who's a brainiac will tell me what a C minus GPA is.

• 22:23Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 22:23Speaker 00

  It is not good. Somehow, the University of Pacific in Stockton, California, thought, "I'm your girl."

• 22:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, right.

• 22:31Speaker 00

  "We want her."

• 22:33Craig Robinson?

  They could see past the application.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  I had no business.

• 22:36Craig Robinson?

  They could see past the application.

• 22:37Speaker 00

  Craig, I had no business in higher education. I should have gone to a trade school. I'm not joking.

• 22:43Michelle Obama?

  No.

• 22:43Speaker 00

  I really, I am not an intellectual, and I don't pretend to be one. And I had no business in college. I, you know, majored in criminology and minored in being a little sister at a frat.

• 22:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 22:57Speaker 00

  I mean, I, I mean, seriously.

• 22:59Craig Robinson?

  So when did you think, "All right, then I'll go in the family business"?

• 23:02Speaker 00

  But I would never think that, Craig.

• 23:04Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 23:04Speaker 00

  Look at this. I'm telling you right now, this is not the girl. You have to remember, my mother was the most beautiful woman I've ever seen.

• 23:17Craig Robinson?

  I've seen, I've, I've, yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  Tony Curtis?

• 23:19Craig Robinson?

  I know.

• 23:20Speaker 00

  Holy moly me. They were beautiful.

• 23:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, but you-

• 23:25Speaker 00

  I was cute. You know what? I'm just telling you, Michelle.

• 23:28Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 23:28Speaker 00

  So the idea that I would go into the movie business where this is your life? I had no discernible talent. I don't do accents. I, I, I, I'm not that girl.

• 23:41Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  I never went to drama school. I, I'm just a living creature who's developed over these low, many years. And my point is, it was, the last thing I thought I would do is be in show business. And it was an accident, and it's boring, and it's a long story, but-

• 24:00Craig Robinson?

  It's not boring.

• 24:02Michelle Obama?

  But let me ask you this, because there are a lot of young people listening out there in the world-

• 24:08Speaker 00

  God bless you.

• 24:09Michelle Obama?

  Who believe the same thing about themselves? Like, there is nothing, obviously, that I have. And I want to ask, what was it that you tapped into in the midst of all that? That kept you going? Because right now, there are a lot of kids who are like, "I don't see my future. There's nothing. I'm not pretty enough. I'm not this enough. I'm not really talented enough." So they quit, or they don't push. I, what, what, what was your, what was your drive? What was the thing in your head that said, "I'm, I'm gonna figure this out"?

• 24:46Speaker 00

  I'm going to, I'm going to not tell you the story of how I became an actor, which was boring and literally was an accident.

• 24:54Michelle Obama?

  And you've told the story.

• 24:55Speaker 00

  Right. I've been, you know, I became an actress because somebody I knew randomly said they were looking for Nancy Drew. At Universal, and I was home at Christmas. And I was like, okay, I was lucky. So a lot of it has to do with luck. Michelle Obama. I had no clue. I didn't have a clue. I just followed the next thing. I didn't, I, but I have a very strong work ethic.

• 25:18Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  And I'm curious enough to ask questions. I want to know. Things I don't know, I can say I don't know. And how do you do that? I have no training, and yet.

• 25:31Michelle Obama?

  Did you ever have any training?

• 25:33Speaker 00

  No.

• 25:35Michelle Obama?

  So what did you, what, what were you learning as you, you know, you went about your acting ability? Like, what, when, what light bulbs were clicking for you as you went along? Or were you just fully like?

• 25:50Speaker 00

  It's just what comes up.

• 25:51Michelle Obama?

  It's like, read this and go do that.

• 25:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:53Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 25:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:54Speaker 00

  I'm, I'm an emotional person. And I, I would like to say I'm an empathetic person. I, I, if there's anything in me, it's that I have an understanding that life is hard for people.

• 26:11Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 26:13Michelle Obama?

  And a deep level of empathy. Which, why I tear up in it? Is that it's so, it's so absent these days. Because our leadership isn't showing it, you know?

• 26:29Speaker 00

  I know.

• 26:29Michelle Obama?

  So it's really nice to.

• 26:33Michelle Obama?

  See it in action because it's out there.

• 26:37Speaker 00

  Well, it's out there everywhere.

• 26:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  And there are people, there are beautiful people. There are just, I mean, I had a, a colonoscopy recently.

• 26:46Michelle Obama?

  Please tell us more, Jamie.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Heidi's, Heidi right now.

• 26:52Michelle Obama?

  Heidi's like, what?

• 26:53Speaker 00

  I swear to God, this is what just happened in the back room with Heidi Schaefer. She literally just went like this.

• 27:01Michelle Obama?

  Well, we at the table have all had colonoscopies.

• 27:03Speaker 00

  I had a colonoscopy recently.

• 27:05Michelle Obama?

  The Twilight thing is pretty good, so.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  Just so you know.

• 27:12Speaker 00

  First of all, I write notes to my doctor with, that I somehow can twist around and write them in eyebrow pen, you know, eyeliner pencil on my butt.

• 27:21Michelle Obama?

  You don't.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  I do. And I write arrows pointing and I say this side up.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  I write, thank you, doctor, I won't name him. Thank you, Dr. M, for going to medical school.

• 27:34Michelle Obama?

  You get that all on your butt.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  But then I also bring a hundred dollar bill. And I say, listen, if the anesthesiologist wants to dial the propofol up slowly. And the Hundy's gone when I wake up.

• 27:52Michelle Obama?

  Just pull it out the pipe.

• 27:53Speaker 00

  Because, yeah, sorry, but that's not why I brought up my colonoscopy.

• 27:57Michelle Obama?

  Once again, we digress.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  I, I do.

• 28:00Michelle Obama?

  For those of us who have had it, it's like, that's hilarious.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  I do draw diagrams and arrows.

• 28:06Michelle Obama?

  Never thought of that.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  Remind them.

• 28:08Michelle Obama?

  Never thought of that.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  Where to go.

• 28:10Michelle Obama?

  I still go to Walter Reed, to the military doctors. I think, I think that might be a, a good one for my next colonoscopy. A trip out to generals.

• 28:21Speaker 00

  I'll send you a picture. I took a picture the last time.

• 28:23Michelle Obama?

  Please do that.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  I'm not going to show it to anybody. The reason I brought my colonoscopy was that the nurse who greeted me at 6:00 a.m. to put her in the IV and to, you know, get me prepped before the team comes in. I'm talking to her and she's young, beautiful, Hispanic, young girl. And I said, you know, as we do, you have kids? She said, yeah, I have three. And I said, you have three kids? I said, where are they right now? She said, they're at my sister's. I said. She said, "I drop them there before I come to work." It was 6:00 AM.

• 29:03Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. She's waking up three little kids.

• 29:07Speaker 00

  Every day, she said, "Five days a week."

• 29:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 29:09Speaker 00

  She says, "I said, "What time did you get them up?" She said, "4:15." Every day at 4:15, she wakes up her three kids. And she's put their school clothes in the backpack, in each of their backpacks. And she takes them to her sisters in their pajamas. And then they go back to sleep at her sisters. And then her sister takes them to school.

• 29:32Speaker 00

  Every day.

• 29:33Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  Five days a week. You see, I didn't have that. I, I, I, I don't work that hard and I don't have that life. That wasn't my life with my children. But I'm aware.

• 29:46Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  That that's really the life going on around me.

• 29:49Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  I was just at Children's Hospital Los Angeles.

• 29:51Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  You want to spend a day and understand how hard people work.

• 29:55Michelle Obama?

  Everyone should.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  Go to a children's hospital, volunteer at a children's hospital and see how dedicated those teams are to the, so for me, not to belabor the point, I think it's just simply, I'm aware that life is hard. My favorite quote is from the Princess Bride.

• 30:14Speaker 00

  "Life is pain, highness, and anyone who says differently is selling something." And it's, it's really.

• 30:21Michelle Obama?

  Well, and it's something to be mindful of. You don't get something for nothing in this world. And anybody tells you, I don't care if he's the president or not, you don't get something for nothing. You know, there's, you know, there's a cost to life.

• 30:36Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 30:37Michelle Obama?

  You know, there's a cost to making sure everybody has health insurance. And there's a cost to all of us to make sure that that nurse could possibly have some more reasonable, affordable childcare while she's serving other people. There's a cost to all of us to have a clean environment. You don't, you don't get to do it without paying taxes or shorting your taxes.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  But that's the fundamental idea of being human.

• 31:01Michelle Obama?

  Oh, well.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  Of any religion.

• 31:03Michelle Obama?

  Oh, well.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Any religion.

• 31:05Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  That is the cornerstone of it.

• 31:08Michelle Obama?

  Yes, it is.

• 31:09Speaker 00

  Help each other.

• 31:09Michelle Obama?

  Yes, it is.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  Love thy neighbor.

• 31:12Michelle Obama?

  Yes, it is.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  Welcome someone. Be open. Put your hand out. Reach back, help somebody up. Reach back, pull them up. It's, it's the nature of, for me. And that's not, I mean, my parents were, you know, good people, but it wasn't, it's just the experience of being alive this long. And I, I mean, I don't have any other way of doing it. I, I, I am a worker amongst workers. It's, that's not just a recovery phrase. Yeah. That's been my vibe for a long time. I would have required our crew here wear name tags. So that when I walk in the room, you know my name. I don't know yours. That, there's an imbalance.

• 31:54Craig Robinson?

  Well, that's a good idea.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  No, but, but that's an imbalance. And right away, it puts me. Yeah. I mean, I'm the one sitting here at the table with y'all. But like, I don't know your name, like it, like that feels imbalanced to me. And on work that I do as a, as a, as the leader of a show. Yeah. That's a requirement. So, I mean, I have some, I have a lot of opinions. I'm just opinionated. Well, it's a good thing you're on IMO because it's all about opinions. I, I, I can.

• 32:33Craig Robinson?

  So this summer, the FIFA World Cup is bringing fans from all over the world into cities across the US. People traveling, looking for a place to stay, trying to catch the games and soak up the atmosphere. I'm actually looking to plan a little vacation myself around that time. So I realized, maybe I could list my place on Airbnb while I'm away. When you leave town, your home is just sitting there. But if you become a host with Airbnb, you could make sure your place gets used while making some extra cash for your next trip. So if you've ever thought about hosting, this summer might be the perfect time. With soccer fans arriving from all over,

• 33:16Craig Robinson?

  your home might be exactly what someone's looking for. Check it out. Maybe you live in a FIFA World Cup host city. If you've ever thought about hosting, this summer is a great time as we welcome FIFA World Cup fans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host. April is the make or break month for momentum. That beginning of the year push is in the rear view, and it's up to us right now to decide if we'll keep grinding or if we're coasting until summer. Take this show, for example. There is so much that goes into running a podcast. And if there's one thing I could tweak this month

• 34:01Craig Robinson?

  to make the rest of 2026 easier for me, it would be finding tech that actually works for us instead of slowing us down. That's why so many businesses start with Shopify. It's built to take the guesswork out of running and growing a business. With everything from your storefront to payments to marketing, all managed in one place. I'll say this. When we're ready for IMO merch, and I know we want it as badly as you do, we definitely will be checking out Shopify. Whether you're just wanting to test an idea out or you're getting serious about launching your own brand, it's never been easier to get started,

• 34:46Craig Robinson?

  and you can do that on Shopify.com/IMO right now. My kitchen has never quite felt completely put together, like it's always felt like something is missing. And then Kelly and I found these striped linen cafe curtains on Wayfair, and the effect has been perfect. Once we realized we wanted some curtains, it was just a matter of typing our ideal item into Wayfair's search bar. And of course, they have what we want plus 10 other options. Their inventory truly cannot be beat. I especially like being able to look through customer photos and reviews before I decide. That's what sealed the deal for us with our new curtains, as well as all of the other amazing pieces

• 35:30Craig Robinson?

  we have from Wayfair in our house right now. Wayfair has more than 20 million verified five-star reviews. So you can actually see how something looks and works in real people's homes. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 35:59Speaker 03

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 36:07Craig Robinson?

  So Jamie.

• 36:09Speaker 00

  What Craig?

• 36:10Craig Robinson?

  You recently, so you're.

• 36:12Speaker 00

  I get into that very late night DJ voice. It's like, what Craig?

• 36:16Craig Robinson?

  At what point in your career did you start sort of aiming for stuff? That you were, like, you're talking about, I'm doing things now that are for me.

• 36:30Speaker 00

  Accident. Same way I'm an actor, accident. I'm telling you now, I was sent everything, everywhere, all at once. It was the weirdest thing I'd ever read. I didn't understand a word of it. I still don't. My universe, I don't even, I didn't understand a word of it. And my agent sent it to me. I had made the Halloween movies in Charleston, Wilmington, and Savannah.

• 37:04Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 37:05Speaker 00

  So all of those movies were made away from my family. I have two children. I have a dog. Who loves me more than any human on the earth. And I have a husband and family and friends. And all I do is leave town to work.

• 37:22Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 37:22Speaker 00

  And I was sent a script.

• 37:26Speaker 00

  And it, first thing, it was shot in Los Angeles. So it was shot in Simi Valley, Los Angeles, which is not, it's outside the TMZ. Yeah. So it's, it's a far enough away that they could get away with making it. But it was still Los Angeles. I was still gonna sleep in my bed. Two, it was starring Michelle Yeoh, who's getting her star today, even though I know this is months later. She is actually, right now, getting a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Michelle Yeoh. And three, they gave me enough money to pay cash flow. Yeah. And I said yes. Those were the three reasons. I didn't understand it. You weren't angling, you didn't think this is gonna be the...

• 38:09Speaker 00

  I just said, okay, but I knew her. You understood. Cause I have met Deirdre's. Deirdre. I know her. This is someone who's unloved, untouched. I understand the power of your job, that when someone has a job like that. Yeah. It, all of the slights of humanity that has come your way as an unattractive,

• 38:35Speaker 00

  unlovable, human being, all of the slights that come with the, those two descriptions. And my job is to say fuck you? Yeah. No, uh-uh, you're gonna have to do all that again. Oh no, oh no. This is my payback. I'm, and so that was her life. And the key to Deirdre Bo Beirdra was, if you see the movie again, she has beautifully manicured hands. Because I realized, that was the only time she ever was touched. My point is,

• 39:14Speaker 00

  that was made in 38 days in Simi Valley in January of 2020. We wrapped the movie the day COVID started. So whatever, Monday, March 16th, was the last day of the shoot, 2020. And the movie didn't come out for two years. Yeah. Movie came out in March of 2022. And then it won nine Oscars, or seven Oscars, in March of 2023. Now, if you think for one second. That you had a plan. Driving to Simi Valley.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  At five o'clock in the morning, to go to an empty office building that used to be the Countrywide Savings and Loan Campus.

• 39:59Michelle Obama?

  Sexy.

• 40:00Speaker 00

  And not have trailers because we used offices in the building as our dressing rooms. And you're making a movie about the multiverse?

• 40:13Speaker 00

  And you think, oh, yeah.

• 40:15Michelle Obama?

  That's, that's, this is my chance.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  This is the one, man. This is gonna, this is, whoa.

• 40:22Michelle Obama?

  So what goes through your mind when that, when the season is in, you know, and you're like, what?

• 40:29Speaker 00

  I remember exactly where I was sitting. I remember what I was wearing when Heidi and Rick, the assistant, called and said, I have Rick and Heidi for you. And I was like, oh, okay. Hello? And you go, hi. I was like, hi, what's up? He said, hey, um, listen, we wanted to talk to you. Uh, we had a conversation today with A24, the releasing company. I was like, yeah. They said, I said, about what? They said, about the campaign. I was like,

• 41:02Speaker 00

  the campaign for what? And they said, well, you know, we want, we want to make sure that they're including you in the campaign. I was like, I can't say what I said. Yeah, I can. Right?

• 41:12Michelle Obama?

  Yes, you can.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  CBS isn't gonna fire me.

• 41:15Michelle Obama?

  No, mm-mm.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  Well, isn't that what they do?

• 41:19Michelle Obama?

  That's what they do.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, apparently.

• 41:21Craig Robinson?

  But not here.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  Not here. You know, I said, fuck you to both of them. I was like, stop it. Stop it right now. There is no campaign. They said, well, we just wanna make sure that, you know, they're gonna do a big push for the movie. I was like, okay, whatever. Look, just back off. Anyway, that became insane. And it's, it's, it's really a thing.

• 41:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  And it's, it's really mind swimming. And I did everything I could the whole time to go.

• 41:52Michelle Obama?

  This isn't me. Yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  Like, just not, I didn't wanna read anything. I didn't wanna have people whisper things in my ear. I hated it. And I, the la, I never in my life, you have to remember.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  I, the last thing in my life I ever thought would ever happen would be that I would be nominated for an Academy Award. That just was never in the cards. That was never anywhere in the work I did. It was just, that was what other people had happened to them, not me. And I am telling you, that morning, that morning, and this, I got COVID at the Golden Globe. Thank you, Colin Farrell. And he knows, and we've worked it out. Anyway, he, um, uh, uh, gave me COVID, um, at the Golden Globe. So I, I had been homesick with COVID and it was

• 42:49Speaker 00

  the day of the nominations. And I'm telling you, I'd had like a lot of people texting like, you're so excited. I was like, shut up, go away, stop. And then I woke up that morning and I went downstairs. Now, my husband, of a long time, makes really funny movies. And one of the movies he made was a movie called For Your Consideration, which is a parody of the season of shiny things. It's the whole idea of this weird little movie, somebody whispering in somebody's ear that they're gonna get an Oscar nomination. And then what happens? Catherine O'Hara, that great weird, if she can do that with her face, sweet girl, we just lost her what?

• 43:32Speaker 00

  A week ago, two weeks ago. Anyway, I know this is later, but that wasn't tape or anything. That's just, she had this weird ability to make her face look like that. And so, but you know, and what happens to people, the mind game that goes on. That's what the movie is about. My husband made that movie. So that morning of the Oscar nominations, you know, my husband said, what are you doing? I said, well, I'm gonna get up and watch the thing. He said, why? I said, you know why, honey? A, I have to exorcise you in your movie. Like, I can't, this is, this is my life. That was a movie. I said, I'm not a character in a movie. I'm a person.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  I said, I'm aware that there's enough chatter that there is a chance that that would happen. I don't think it's gonna happen, but I'm telling you, I, that's a possibility that it could happen. And here's the story. This will delight you.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  I've been an actress for a long time. The only person I know who won an Oscar is Deborah Oppenheimer. And on the morning of the Oscar nominations,

• 44:45Speaker 00

  I was like, I get up really early, so I was up at four. And then, you know, I made coffee or whatever. And then at like five, the thing starts at 5:30. So like at 5:10, I looked at my phone and there was a text from Deb. And it said, "I'm sitting outside your house. I have my computer with me. If you don't want me to be there with you, I'm fine where I am." But I'm here. But I'm sitting outside your house. And I opened my gate. And there she was. And she was sitting in her car with a pillow and her computer. And she came in and sat with me.

• 45:31Speaker 00

  And when my name came up on that screen, I didn't know she was doing this. My friend Deborah Oppenheimer was taking pictures secretly. She kind of held her phone because I could not believe it. And the real moment of disbelief was when they called my name and then they called Stephanie Hsu. Because, you know, she was my, she wasn't my daughter in the movie, but she was the other actress in the movie. And it would have felt wrong to me. Right, right. Because she has fantastic, she's fantastic in the movie. Anyway, that was the moment of real exuberation. But I have it all on film. Oh, my gosh.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  And that's the, like, the last thing I ever thought would happen in my life was that moment. The rest of it was not like, like, the rest of it, the night of it, I went with my husband, we sat, I, the way, literally this happened, we were sitting in the front row at the frickin' Oscars. And there was Michelle and Key and Steph. And then the Daniels were over there and I kneeled down, we were in the front row on the left side. And I kneeled down in front of Michelle Yeoh and I looked at her and I said, Michelle, where are we right now? She said, what do you mean? I said, Michelle, where are we right now?

• 47:01Speaker 00

  She said, at the Oscars. I said, uh huh. Um, and why are we at the Oscars? She said, uh, because we made a movie that people liked. I said, uh huh. And where are we sitting? And she said, in the front row. I said, okay, great.

• 47:21Michelle Obama?

  Let's just stop there.

• 47:22Speaker 00

  Just checking to make sure I'm.

• 47:23Michelle Obama?

  I'm awake.

• 47:24Speaker 00

  Like aware. And then I went down the line, sat, kneeled in front of Key. Key, same thing. Steph, same thing.

• 47:30Michelle Obama?

  Be aware.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  So when I say there we were in the front row, all of us, me.

• 47:36Michelle Obama?

  You had already won. It was like.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Michelle, Key, Steph, all of us were like, wow.

• 47:42Michelle Obama?

  How did we get here?

• 47:43Speaker 00

  How did we get here?

• 47:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  And then, of course, the miracle of all miracles is that we won.

• 47:49Michelle Obama?

  You are so the anti superstar. I mean.

• 47:54Speaker 00

  I just don't understand it.

• 47:56Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And, and I think it's beautiful. I think that's why people love you. That's why I am in love with you.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  Now you're flirting, Michelle.

• 48:04Michelle Obama?

  You were one of one. I'm a flirt. I can do it too. I can do it too. Um, but you've, you've changed the notion of what it means to age in the public eye. And I'd love for you to talk about that.

• 48:18Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 48:19Michelle Obama?

  Um, because I, I'm hoping that we are ushering in all of us. Cause I'm 62, you are 67.

• 48:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:30Michelle Obama?

  We are in our 60s, which I think is the best time of life.

• 48:33Speaker 00

  Without question.

• 48:34Michelle Obama?

  Um, and I want, talk about that journey for yourself, how you feel. It's like, you know, you're, you're not, you know, you believe in aging. You know, you believe in the beauty of it.

• 48:46Speaker 00

  Like shit happens, aging happens. I mean, it, it's coming for all of us, by the way.

• 48:50Michelle Obama?

  That's not what Hollywood is all about.

• 48:52Speaker 00

  Ah, you know, here's the problem.

• 48:54Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 48:55Speaker 00

  It's not just Hollywood. It's also technology. It's also social media. It's also filtering.

• 49:00Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  It's also, it's what we used to call airbrushing is now just filtering.

• 49:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  It's all fakery. It's just the fakery. It's the cosmeceutical industrial complex, which is.

• 49:14Speaker 00

  As insidious in many ways as the military industrial complex is about money. Yep. So it's just about freaking money. Mm-hmm. Right?

• 49:25Speaker 00

  And it's the idea that you're gonna tell someone that this is going to change you and make you better. And therefore, better means you'll be more loved, you'll be more successful. So it's this, it's this cycle of bullshit. Mm-hmm. But it preys on our base insecurities. Yep. You know, and for many people, it's what they look like. Now, I've never been pretty. And I'm saying it out loud. I'm not been, I wouldn't. Oh, you've never thought you were pretty? I wasn't pretty like that. I wasn't pretty the way girls are pretty. I was cute. I was cute, I can look good. I'm not, I can fully look good. But it's, but that was not my- You weren't the traditional notion of pretty. That was not my ticket. Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 00

  And that's very important for me because that was never the thing I relied on. I have succumbed, and have talked about it many times, to trying all the things. Mm-hmm. I've sucked the fat, I've cut the fat. I've tried to do the things that people do, that everybody's doing. Yeah. And it doesn't work. Mm-hmm. There are many things that happen- When you say it doesn't work- It doesn't work, first of all, because of the self-esteem issue. Because you ultimately are looking in the mirror and realizing you've used something outside of yourself to change something, to make you, quote, "better." But you're not better because you're still the same person before, as you were before. I think it actually makes you feel fraudulent. Mm-hmm.

• 50:55Speaker 00

  And I think it creates self-hatred. Yeah. Um, and for me, accepting that I look the way I look is part of self-love. Now, P, I did that magazine, as you know, years ago, More Magazine, where I took off my clothes. And the reason I did that is because I was a cover girl of magazines. And, again, people were comparing themselves to me the same way I would compare myself to someone else. Mm-hmm. And I know what it feels like to look at a picture of a beautiful woman and go, "Oh, oh." Why isn't, what's wrong with me? I've got, like, really? I'm never gonna look like that.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  And so I, in, the one thing we haven't brought up at all is that I also write books for children. And the books I write for children are about things. It's, they're not just nothing. They're about issues and topics that plague children as much as they plague adults. I'd written a book about self-esteem. It was called, "I'm Gonna Like Me Letting Off a Little Self-Esteem." It was about self-love. How do you get it? Mm-hmm. Esteemable acts is how you get self-esteem. It's back to your question of young people. They don't feel like, "I don't know what to do." Do something for someone else. Boom! There you go. Mm-hmm.

• 52:14Speaker 00

  The dopamine hits. You're like, you're filling up with goodness. It changes the way you do. So, I'm promoting a book for children about self-esteem, and I was doing the cover of More magazine, and I realized I was a liar. Mm-hmm. Because if I was, if I was paying attention to what I wrote, I wouldn't have done plastic surgery. I wouldn't have done liposuction. So, I said, "You know what? I'm gonna take a picture of me in my undies with no good light, no makeup, no hair. I'm gonna stand there, au naturel, and you're gonna take my picture, and then you're going

• 52:57Speaker 00

  to let me get all dolled up, but you're gonna have to print those two pictures side by side, and you're gonna have to say how long it took, how much money it took, how many people were involved." Yeah. And then I'll do that. And that was something, that was in 2001. We're in 2026. That was unheard of. But that was even then me understanding that what we're selling is fraudulent. It has only gotten crazier. And by the way, I'm not proselytizing. I know that some people takes, have, like, I know there's a lot of weight loss questions out there right now. If it actually helps people be healthier, God bless them.

• 53:55Craig Robinson?

  Well, Jamie, we have

• 53:57Michelle Obama?

  What?

• 53:57Craig Robinson?

  A listener question. As Jennifer Lewis said, I talk too much. Way too much. I do.

• 54:05Michelle Obama?

  You're in between two opinionated women, which is...

• 54:09Craig Robinson?

  We have a listener question.

• 54:10Michelle Obama?

  A G. A G. G. My G.

• 54:14Speaker 00

  I'm telling you right now.

• 54:15Michelle Obama?

  Sorry.

• 54:16Craig Robinson?

  That's okay.

• 54:17Michelle Obama?

  What were you saying, Craig?

• 54:18Speaker 00

  What do you want, Craig?

• 54:19Michelle Obama?

  I'm gonna start saying that, what, Craig?

• 54:20Craig Robinson?

  You to hear our listener question from Madeline and maybe offer some opinions.

• 54:24Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 54:24Craig Robinson?

  We have a question from Madeline in Boston.

• 54:27Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 54:28Speaker 03

  I am entering my senior year of college and it feels like my generation is unsure what the point is in a time and world that is full of greed, unfairness, and loneliness. How do you find purpose and drive to work towards your interests and goals when it often feels like there are only certain routes to be successful and sustain a happy lifestyle? From Madeline in Boston.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, that's the question, right? Purpose.

• 54:56Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 54:56Speaker 00

  Purpose. Ultimately, it's find purpose. That when you say or are feeling that you can't find your path to the purpose, my experience with people over and over again is put yourself in the path of anything. Put yourself in the path of love. Put yourself in the path of work. Put yourself in the path of purpose. Like, again, volunteer. You wanna feel purpose? Go to a children's hospital and offer to volunteer to be one of the, you know, the helpers that work in hospitals. The need is great out there in the world.

• 55:42Speaker 00

  I think finding your purpose is putting yourself in the path of it. You may not know what it is, it may not, as I've, I am a living example of that nothing in my life represents what I thought or had even a fantasy what my life would be. I had no idea. I didn't have a purpose. Keep your mind open and so for me, that's you find your purpose by putting yourself in the path of it. I just feel like people keep thinking, purpose is going to come to them.

• 56:13Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 56:13Speaker 00

  Love is going to come to them. Work is going to come to them. Success is going to come to them. And it is not. You have to go to it for it. You have to go for it.

• 56:26Michelle Obama?

  I love that. I'd want, what's our question? Madeline. Madeline, to also think very carefully about how we, how she's defining purpose, right? Because I think that's some of the confusion these days because purpose in this day and age, right now, this moment in time is fame, money. You know, more. It's, it's all, it's all stuff. It's acquiring. It's, it's superficial. So when, when we talk about purpose, I think we are talking about,

• 57:10Michelle Obama?

  we are talking about something much more altruistic. You know, the dopamine hit that comes with engaging with other people, you know. So I want her to think beyond stuff. Even, you know, yeah, go to school, get your degree if you can afford it. You know, have a good career, you know, you know, be able to support yourself. But I know too many people who have all of that and more. The billionaires in the world, the millionaires, the people who are famous, the people who have it all, the people that you look at and think, well, I want their purpose. And what they're doing isn't making them happy or whole. It's not giving them self-esteem. You know, in fact, it's doing the opposite. So I want Madeline to think about

• 57:55Speaker 00

  Working outside of herself. And by the way, Madeline, tough name to have after Lily Allen's album.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Craig doesn't understand that one. Well, Craig, we'll have to, you know what? I'm gonna play the whole thing for you. It's gonna blow your mind. It's so genius. Talk about a G. It's a G. Anyway, but before we began this, you know, I've talked a lot about like, man, my work, my life. But the truth is, I'm also a mom.

• 58:28Speaker 00

  I'm a mother. Yes. Of two. I've raised two children from birth.

• 58:34Speaker 00

  Through uncharted waters because I had no role model to show me how to do it. And every human being is different. And there's been difference in our, in our path with, with our children. And our children were born through adoption. And our family was built through adoption. And we were talking at the beginning of the podcast. And the truth is, all of this emotionality that I have. Yeah. Is really rooted in being their mother. Yes. Like the, the. Oh, my God, don't make me cry.

• 59:12Speaker 00

  But the truth is, that the, the greatest lessons, the hardest days ever in my life, ever, have been being a parent. Yeah. And now, a grandparent. There we go. And we were talking before, and I, I needed to call my daughter and her husband

• 59:36Speaker 00

  to ask if it was okay.

• 59:40Speaker 00

  But the idea that I would be this person at this age, excuse my French, forget the movies, forget the things, forget the, the, forget the shiny things. The shiniest thing is a child. Yes. Oh, my God. The greatest gift is a child. Yeah. And getting the privilege of raising them and learning how to help someone through their life. And my husband and I became grandparents to our eldest daughter and her husband.

• 1:00:20Speaker 04

  And

• 1:00:25Speaker 04

  their baby boy was born in December.

• 1:00:34Speaker 04

  And it was a week after Rob and Michelle.

• 1:00:39Speaker 04

  And Rob and Michelle are her godparents.

• 1:00:44Speaker 04

  And they died on her birthday. And my beautiful daughter,

• 1:00:52Speaker 04

  who loved them, as we all did, managed to be able to metabolize that grief and sadness, as we all have had to do, obviously. Nothing greater than their children, but as close friends and I know

• 1:01:13Speaker 04

  colleagues and friends and people we all admired. And then my daughter and her husband brought their son to this world a week later. And

• 1:01:27Speaker 04

  life on life's harshest terms and life on life's most beautiful terms.

• 1:01:33Speaker 04

  Perfect terms. And the reason I brought it up is I remember where I was

• 1:01:45Speaker 04

  the day your husband was elected president because my daughter called me from a party that she and her friends were at. My daughter was in college. And I remember where I was sitting in a hotel, talking on the phone with my daughter about the possibility that the world was going to change because of the election and because of you, you and your husband, stepping up, saying, "We're here to help you." And I remember where I was that day. And now that daughter has brought a little grandson into our lives. And the joy, talk about it.

• 1:02:29Speaker 04

  I never thought I would have children. I never thought in my wildest dreams I would be a grandma. A granny. I want to be granny. Granny. But so it has just been.

• 1:02:43Speaker 04

  An extraordinary connection. And when I called my daughter today to say, hey, I'm about to do this. We have never talked about it. It's been a private matter.

• 1:02:56Speaker 04

  But we live in a world, many people know, in our circle, many, many people know that, you know, we're grandparents. One of these days, somebody's gonna say something. And I am getting to say it. And when I called my daughter and said, you know, I'm about to do this thing. I think it's gonna come up. How would you feel about me talking about it?

• 1:03:26Speaker 04

  And she said, tell her I love her.

• 1:03:32Speaker 04

  My daughter Annie said, tell her I love her.

• 1:03:38Speaker 04

  You are loved and so respected that she would say, yes, mom, you can talk about it to Michelle Obama. Because she's a G. Because she loves you. Because you represented love in the world. And you brought love to the White House and beyond. And so it's really thrilling to me that the first time I'm gonna say to the universe that I became a granny is here with you. And that it was, and that she said that I could do it because it was you.

• 1:04:22Speaker 04

  Because of what you've represented to her and her generation of young women and how much respect we have for you and your husband. And you too. You too. You too, Craig.

• 1:04:38Craig Robinson?

  Thank you.

• 1:04:40Speaker 04

  But that's for Madeline. Your aura is very strong.

• 1:04:45Speaker 04

  Because we know from the ring.

• 1:04:48Speaker 04

  I just, I'm, I.

• 1:04:53Michelle Obama?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  That's the truth. That is the truth.

• 1:04:57Michelle Obama?

  For.

• 1:04:58Speaker 00

  That's what she said to me.

• 1:04:59Michelle Obama?

  For Madeline.

• 1:05:01Speaker 00

  And Madeline, I'm so sorry.

• 1:05:02Michelle Obama?

  No, but this is, the point being that, like, so many wonderful things have happened to all of us in the world, so many tangible things. But knowing that you can impact people's lives in that way, like, that's purpose. And that's a purpose that sustained you through ugly stuff, and name-calling, and lies, and it fills you up fully. And I want young people to understand that, right? Like, you don't, like, money doesn't buy that impact, you know? Titles don't give it to you. It's how you show up in the world that matters.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  It's the only thing people are gonna remember at the end.

• 1:05:50Michelle Obama?

  That's right. And that's the shiny thing.

• 1:05:53Speaker 00

  That's, to me.

• 1:05:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. That's what Madeline should be working towards.

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  That's what we all should be working toward.

• 1:06:01Michelle Obama?

  For sure.

• 1:06:02Speaker 00

  And that's what you and your husband worked toward. And that's the gift that you guys gave us. And that was the hope that you offered us. And I believe that, well, I know you've changed the world for the better. And I believe that, um, I believe that the times are gonna change. And I think our better minds are going to start paying attention

• 1:06:25Michelle Obama?

  They will.

• 1:06:25Speaker 00

  to the corruption, the greed, the avarice, the hatred, the misogyny, the homophobia, the, the violence.

• 1:06:36Michelle Obama?

  Xenophobia.

• 1:06:37Speaker 00

  The violence perpetrated by this administration in the name of America. I believe that will change. Um, and I believe the example that we will lead toward is the example you and your husband gave us. So if I get to say nothing else on this, I got to say that to your face. Thank you.

• 1:06:58Michelle Obama?

  Thank you.

• 1:06:58Speaker 00

  Very much for everything that you have done for all of us.

• 1:07:02Michelle Obama?

  Thank you.

• 1:07:02Speaker 00

  And you too, Craig.

• 1:07:07Michelle Obama?

  What, Craig?

• 1:07:08Craig Robinson?

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:07:10Michelle Obama?

  What, Craig?

• 1:07:12Craig Robinson?

  Hey, sometimes you just have to get rebounds.

• 1:07:17Speaker 00

  The assist, baby.

• 1:07:19Craig Robinson?

  You don't have to score. Sometimes you just play D.

• 1:07:22Michelle Obama?

  This is...

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  And by the way, there's your gift to Madeline. That's your answer to Madeline.

• 1:07:28Craig Robinson?

  That's right. Sometimes you're just the... You are... You are just the teammate.

• 1:07:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, well...

• 1:07:34Craig Robinson?

  And you can be a good teammate.

• 1:07:36Speaker 00

  You are a good teammate.

• 1:07:37Craig Robinson?

  But...

• 1:07:37Michelle Obama?

  Jamie, thank you.

• 1:07:38Craig Robinson?

  I digress.

• 1:07:38Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you for this. This was powerful, beautiful. Ah, thank you.

• 1:08:05Craig Robinson?

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